WEDNESDAY, 11 JUNE 2008 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 15:02.

The House Chairperson (Ms M N Oliphant, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICE OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the NCOP, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the Council –

 1) notes that a special investigating unit, also known as the Cobras,
    had been investigating corruption in the allocation of stands for
    RDP housing by Ekurhuleni municipal officers and local ward
    councillors to people who did not qualify for them;

 2) further notes that the Gauteng Department of Housing denies ever
    receiving a copy of the Cobras’ preliminary report, in which they
    claim to have identified many cases of possible corruption in
    settlements, while the Cobras insist that they handed the report in
    last year;


 3) realises that people have been complaining about the allocation of
    RDP houses, especially with regard to corruption, for many years
    now and that this has resulted in many problems and caused
    suffering to many who, after waiting for years, still do not have
    the houses that they were promised;

 4) calls upon the relevant authorities to get to the bottom of this
    embarrassing fiasco between the Cobras and the department so that
    measures can be implemented and action taken against the people
    found guilty of corruption; and

(5) acknowledges that there are still too many problems and too much corruption in the allocation of RDP houses and only once this is sorted out will real service delivery with regard to RDP houses start taking place.

                   CONDOLENCES TO PEOPLE OF SUDAN

                         (Draft Resolution)   The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the Council -

   1) notes that at least 33 people died and 121 sustained serious
      wounds and burns in a horrific accident last night when a
      passenger jet carrying 203 passengers and 14 crew members burst
      into flames after one of its engines exploded on landing at
      Khartoum Airport in Sudan;


   2) as it dips its head in mourning with the people of Sudan, takes
      this opportunity to convey its heartfelt condolences and prayers
      to all those who have lost their loved ones and wishes all the
      survivors a speedy recovery.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

            HOSPITALISATION OF DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF NCOP

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr M A SULLIMAN: Agb Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Raad –

 1) verneem het dat die Adjunkvoorsitter van die Nasionale Raad van
    Provinsies vanoggend in die hospital opgeneem is; en


 2) haar alle voorspoed en sterkte toewens.

(Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr M A SULLIMAN: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council–

 1) was informed that the Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of
    Provinces was admitted to hospital this morning; and


 2) wishes her a speedy recovery.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

          ANC CAMPAIGN IN RESPONSE TO ELECTRICITY SHORTAGE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr J M SIBIYA: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Council, I move without notice:

That the Council:

 1) notes that as South Africa was confronted  with  the  uncomfortable
    reality of having to live with occasional power  disruptions  as  a
    result  of  load  shedding  necessitated   by   the   shortage   of
    electricity, the ANC responded with a robust campaign  highlighting
    the  extent  of  the  electricity  problem  and  encouraging  local
    communities to use it responsibly;


 2) further notes that this  vigorous  nationwide  campaign  under  the
    theme “Save electricity today so that we  have  it  tomorrow”,  was
    driven by cadres of the ANC in their various deployments, including
    Members  of  Parliament,  members   of   provincial   legislatures,
    councillors, mayors and even community-based organisations;


 3) takes this opportunity to thank those involved in this campaign as
    well as the people of South Africa for their response, particularly
    the corporate sector, which in many areas has reduced its
    electricity consumption by 10%, as requested by the Minister in
    this august House late last year; and

 4) reiterates its call to South African households and the corporate
    sector to build on this initiative to save electricity in their
    communities, houses, churches and schools.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 18 - Correctional Services:

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Chairperson and hon members of the NCOP, for giving us the opportunity to give you a very brief report on the work of Correctional Services. We will try and give a report of the period since Correctional Services came into existence; it won’t only be about the budget for this year.

First of all, let me take this opportunity to convey our condolences to the family of a young lady who was with us for two days last week. She was the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs of Kenya, Lorna Laboso. We had lunch together last Friday before the Ministers, who had come for the meeting, left for Kenya to go home. We heard this morning that she died in a crash in Kenya. As a department and as the people who are forming the African Correctional Services Association, we convey our condolences to her family.

Secondly, our condolences go to the family of a young lady, Miss Pretty Shuping, the vice president of Popcru, who passed away yesterday. She used to work very closely with us, and we will hear from the labour union when the funeral arrangements have been made. I extend my condolences and that of the department because she worked very closely with us since 2004. She was part of the joint task team that I established in this department together with Bongani Xholishe to ensure that things were running smoothly. There was interaction and she strengthened that interaction. May her soul also rest in peace.

Let me now proceed with the Budget Vote. Chairperson, hon members, the Deputy Minister of Correctional Services - Madam Loretta Jacobus, as I call her - the National Commissioner of Correctional Services, Mr Vernie Petersen, the regional commissioners that are here with us today and the office staff of the Ministry, guests and all officials of Correctional Services, four years ago I made a commitment to make a difference in the lives of offenders, members of the Department of Correctional Services and the victims of crime. Today I stand here with a sense of accomplishment in many respects while also acknowledging that there are many challenges to overcome as we march more deeply into freedom and democracy.

For these achievements, tribute should go to all officials who have demonstrated amazing determination under the leadership of both former Commissioner Linda Mti and the current National Commissioner, Mr Vernie Petersen, and our stakeholders who have taken our relations to a higher level. Our stakeholders include the National Institute for Crime Prevention and the Reintegration of Offenders, Nicro, Phaphama, the Institute for Healing of Memories, Khulisa, the Open Society Foundation and the President’s Awards. They have responded well to the call for “Business Unusual” to deliver safe custody, rehabilitation and social reintegration of offenders for a safer South Africa.

I must express my gratitude for the nation’s investment in its correctional system in the past years. Our budget has improved by 8,5% for this financial year and will substantially improve in the last year of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period by over 20% to R15,3 billion in the 2010-11 financial year. As we have done up to now, we will continue to ensure that we deliver appropriate returns on this investment and in all other respects.

This speech will therefore not just give an account of what happened or what has been achieved over the last financial year, but is also an overview of the third term of government in particular and the last 14 years of democratic governance.

I must assure this House that the management of Correctional Services under the leadership and guidance of the national commissioners, regional commissioners and area commissioners has placed a heavy premium on building the Department of Correctional Services as an employer of choice. Efforts to build a formidable team of professional cadres who cherish and value corrections as a profession are under way.

These efforts include the seven-day establishment currently being piloted in Johannesburg correctional centres for the purpose of phasing it in across the department as from 1 July 2008; an occupation-specific dispensation for correctional officials is also to be phased in during July; and there is the establishment of the interim Corrections Professions Council to ensure that corrections joins other established and respected professions.

These plans are based on great achievements to date that include a 26% increase of staff from 32 000 to 40 000, after handling and finalising the recruitment of over 10 000 officials within just three years; improved representation of woman at the executive management level to 37%, at senior management level to 26% and at middle management level to 30%, while also increasing women recruitment of women at entry level to 30%.

I must again make an announcement here that today Cabinet gave us the go ahead and agreed to the appointment of Ms Subashini Moodley, our brand-new Chief Deputy Commissioner, CDC, for development and care. She is sitting over there. Ms Moodley, can you please stand up. [Applause.] That 37% now moves up to 39%. Welcome to the family of leaders! There has also been an introduction of a death grant of R200 000 per member to alleviate the hardship of family members of officials who have passed on in the line of duty and which came into effect on 1 April 2008; and the introduction of national corrections excellence awards to show appreciation to the pockets of excellence that are growing at excellent rates in Correctional Services and as a strategy for the creation of a critical mass of ideal correctional officials.

We have developed and launched an integrated human resource strategy that incorporates interventions aimed at recruiting and retaining scarce skills. This strategy includes increased entry level for professionals such as nurses, medical practitioners, pharmacists and psychologists. About 189 Senior Management Service, SMS, members are attending a leadership development programme at the Wits Business School this year, which will sharpen the echelon for purposes of improving overall performance in the department. Over 90% of our SMS members were deployed at the coalface of service delivery as part of Project Khaedu.

To strengthen the implementation of projects like the Offender Rehabilitation Path and Social Reintegration, we have trained managers and officials in 36 centres of excellence and 54 other priority centres across the country on unit management and case management systems. We plan to reach 189 centres this year, our target being to reach all 241 correctional centres by 2010-11. We have improved the management of the budget voted to implement our programmes. Departmental spending has improved from 94,1% of the allocated R9,8 billion for 2006-2007 to 97,7% of the allocated R11,4 billion in the 2007-2008 financial year. This is mainly due to the improvement in billing from the Department of Public Works for property management services and capital works projects as well as the expenditure incurred in line with the requirements for the implementation of the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Chamber Resolution 1 of 2007.

One of the major challenges facing the criminal justice system in South Africa is its management of the remand detention system. Correctional Services is housing 57% of the country’s 87 000 remand detainees. Out of that 87 000 we have 57 000 that are inside our centres, with the SAPS housing 35 000 and Social Development housing 2 129.

The system is facing challenges of case backlogs, limited integrated planning, poor co-ordination and the absence of integrated remand detention information systems, resulting in the duplication of services and poor handling of remand detainees - those are awaiting-trial detainees. We are on course to turn this scenario around, working with our partners in the criminal justice system to realise: ten dedicated remand detention centres for housing over 50% as a start; the modernisation of the system through expanding inmate tracking by introducing electronic monitoring; aligning information systems and expanding video postponement - those that serve in the select committee under Kgoshi know that we have a problem in dealing with people taken from court and back only to be remanded by the courts - and optimal use of alternative sentencing and provisions of the Criminal Procedure Act to manage offender population.

The recent foiling of an attempted escape by a very canny and dangerous inmate in the Pretoria local centre represents good work done by officials on a daily basis. These efforts are helping to reduce escapes by 14%, from 95 in 2006 to 82 escapes in 2007 and sustain a 93% reduction in escapes registered over the last 14 years of our democratic rule. We will continue to improve security as it also helped to reduce incidents of assault by 53%, from 1882 to 855 within one year.

We have witnessed the substantial increase in the numbers of long-term violent, aggressive and dangerous offenders over the last 14 years. To deal with this, we have established a project team with a dedicated project manager to ensure a systematic and sustained focus covering short-term, medium-term and long-term interventions. These interventions include: rolling out further use of security technology to cover all our facilities; finalising the establishment and optimum use of our new Field Vetting Unit with the help of the National Intelligence Services, which has already trained officials to ensure that those working in higher-risk areas are constantly vetted to ensure higher levels of integrity; and, in partnership with the Safety and Security Sector Education and Training Authority, Sasseta, the South African Police Service, SAPS, and the Mangaung Maximum Correctional Centre, we are working on training and retraining our security officials.

This is informed by experiences in the Qalakabusha and Johannesburg escape incidents and the way we have responded to that. We are intensifying disciplinary processes while revising our procedures to stand up to the sophistication and complexities of organised crime.

We have successfully piloted an audiovisual remand system in Durban Westville Correctional Centre. This audiovisual link between our facility and the Pinetown, Durban and Estcourt courts, particularly for remand and release appearances, has made sure that 42 cases can be heard within four hours, saving us thousands of rands required for logistics and has substantially reduced the risk of escape.

The project has now been extended to St Albans Correctional Centre and Port Elizabeth last month and will be rolled out to a further 36 courts and 20 correctional centres between now and July so that if it is going to be remand or a release it is done easily between the courts and us. We don’t have to take some of these dangerous offenders there, particularly the likes of you-know-who, who nearly escaped about a week ago. [Laughter.]

It is common knowledge that government strategy to fight crime, in particular contact crimes of aggression and violence, resulted in a rapid growth of the offender population especially between 1995 and now. This figure skyrocketed by over 90% in just 10 years from 95 000 in 1995 to 187 000 in 2005. From 1995 to date, we have built seven new correctional centres that include Goodwood. These are the new-generation centres that really are good for unit management and rehabilitation processes.

Goodwood, Malmesbury, Emthonjeni, Qalakabusha, Ebongweni and Kokstad Medium are all aligned to the new concept of rehabilitation. The two public- private partnership, PPP correctional centres in Mangaung and Kutuma- Sinthumule are part of a broader plan that includes renovation of 57 facilities and upgrading of 12 facilities nationally.

We are firmly on course and have given the department capital expenditure programme the requisite boost to fire on all cylinders. The facilities budget for the outer two years of the MTEF will increase from 17% and 20% respectively in order to cover the planned massive infrastructure development programme. These capital works will deliver over 21 000 bed spaces by 2010-11.

They include the Kimberley Correctional Centre that is already 58% complete; five new-generation correctional centres by the PPP partnership to be built in East London in the Eastern Cape; Klerksdorp, North West; Port Shepstone, KwaZulu-Natal; Nigel in Gauteng; and Paarl in the Western Cape. We have tried to spread them out as much as we could. The remaining two that are planned are Polokwane in Limpopo and Leeuwkop in Gauteng, but they are still going through the processes of securing the land and doing the viability studies respectively.

The infrastructure programme is helping to make positive waves in local economies and to push back frontiers of poverty and underdevelopment. The construction of the R815 million Kimberly Correctional Centre is a living example of this. The following milestones have been registered at Kimberley whilst we are building. About 94% of the 1 235 jobs created, which included these for 91 women and 137 ex-offenders, went to the local communities because we are trying our best so that, as they come out and have skills, they work on building these prisons and we can make sure that they don’t come back into them.

Over R4,7 million rand was spent to train 86 young people as part of the National Youth Service Programme; 412 officials, 40% of whom are women, have been appointed to manage the facility and are currently in Correctional Services training colleges in Kroonstad and Zonderwater. The groups that are there now are the groups that are going to come back and go to Kimberley.

In his state of the nation address President Thabo Mbeki called for growing co-operation amongst all partners in fighting crime, driven of course by the rule of law, respect for the judiciary and pursuit of human rights.

One of the outstanding achievements of the previous financial year was a national stakeholders’ conference which underlined the need for building a South African corrections association of all key players in the corrections community. The meeting attended by over 50 delegates endorsed a pledge to work more closely together to found corrections committees in South Africa. That meeting agreed to build an enduring partnership to advance the cause of corrections and establish a joint task team to explore and drive the establishment of the first-ever association in South Africa.

We have taken note of comments made by our stakeholders; one called for self-sufficiency of correctional services as a mechanism so that we make sure that inmates that are inside now and their upkeep is not a financial burden on the fiscus.

Government has called for “Business Unusual” in accelerating service delivery in the remaining period of the third democratic government. We may have made a difference in many respects, but turning around and running a correctional system efficiently and effectively has its inherent challenges. The ideals spelt out in the White Paper will take over a decade to realise in a very supportive context. To ensure “Business Unusual”, Correctional Services has identified five key strategic projects, two White Paper projects and three Service Delivery Improvement Plans to position itself as a key player in ensuring that government’s Apex Priorities are centralised as reflected in the Estimates of National Expenditure.

We will redouble our efforts and investments to intensify infrastructure development, re-engineering of the country’s remand detention system, phasing in of the Offender Rehabilitation Path, enhancing sustainable and social integration of offenders, the introduction of the seven-day working week, roll-out of centres of excellence and enhancing of security interventions.

We have also identified three key areas of focus: improving processes of filling vacancies with quicker turnaround times, enhancing adult basic education as a key pro-poor intervention and improving the management of visitations to improve humane treatment not just of the offenders but also of visiting families so as to enhance family ties.

We have not only focused on delivering on our mandate nationally but have contributed immensely in advancing the new corrections ethos in Africa to ensure that the ideals outlined in the international and African declarations and protocols are implemented.

In September 2008 we will be launching the association I was talking about, the African Correctional Services Association, in Zambia. This is a decision that was affirmed by a historic meeting of the African correction Ministers that met at Kievits Kroon in Pretoria last month. Indeed, any correctional system in the world faces a number of standing challenges, but I’m certain in South Africa Correctional Services is poised to set new trends in many respects.

This is our account of the difference we have made since making this undertaking. I must also emphasise that when I started, I started with the analogy of this big truck. I don’t want to mention what I normally call it because it will be unparliamentary and it will be un-NCOP. This huge truck with 32 wheels; we have been driving it. Now, it is there outside, serviced, everything done, with all the dangerous and nondangerous people and the wonderful people, our officials, in there.

Who are its co-drivers? Yes, Cheryl Gillwald and I are first co-drivers. After that, it is Loretta Jacobus and I. That truck is purring nicely. If you listen to the engine, it is purring nicely: grrrrgrrrr. [Laughter.] All it needs is to be taken from where it is now to its destination. That is what it needs now, to go to destination transformation, destination gender equality, destination efficiency, destination noncorruption, destination where we can be proud of the foundation that we have laid.

I would like to thank the leadership of the portfolio and select committees under Kgoshi Mokoena and the kinds of inputs that we have got over the years as they do oversight over us. Kgoshi and the select committee, we appreciated that. We were always treated with respect whenever we came in front of the select committee. We were always given advice. Even on your oversight visits I would know that when you came back, you would give us a report and we would then be able to build on that report and feel that the oversight role that you are playing is an oversight role not only for us as individuals but for the department as a whole and for governance in this country. So, keep up that good work. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Chairperson. I must again say that it does feel very good to be home. Hon Minister of Correctional Services, Minister Balfour; members of the NCOP; the National Commissioner of Correctional Services, Commissioner Petersen and your executive management team, all the regional commissioners who have joined us here today as well as the newly appointed chief deputy commissioner of development and care. I also add my voice to congratulate you, Madam, and I have no doubt in my mind that you will be able to step into the shoes of your predecessor, Sis Jabu, as she was fondly known. There’s a saying in Afrikaans, “Jy sal jou plek vol staan”. [You will pull your weight.] I hope you understand what I’m saying.

Our personnel from the Department of Correctional Services who have joined us here this afternoon and invited guests - I don’t see any -this month we are celebrating the immeasurable contribution of young people to the attainment of a free and democratic South Africa. Some of the young people who contributed to the birth of this new nation are occupying key strategic positions in this Parliament, in this House, in particular, and right across our nation.

Our mission today, as government, is to create an environment where today’s youth can also make the best use of the foundation laid by this class of

1. We must address challenges that are currently facing families, communities and the broader society, like unemployment, a lack of education, family violence, HIV/Aids, and peer pressure.

This reality facing our youth demands that Correctional Services must, alongside improving security, emphasise rehabilitation and development programmes aimed at turning these young people that are languishing in our correctional facilities into socially responsible and productive citizens.

Strengthening the capacity of Correctional Services to deliver on its core mandate is an integral part of government’s priority of consolidating and advancing the fight against crime. As announced by the President in his state of the nation address in February of this year, these priorities include, among other things, the revamping of the criminal justice system to intensify our offensive against crime.

The White Paper on Corrections implores us to intervene in ways that would turn an offender into a socially responsible and law-abiding citizen. As a result, we have established a number of strategic and sustainable partnerships with other government departments and civil society organisations. For example, the DCS and the President’s Award for Youth Empowerment programme are currently engaged in skills training initiatives involving over 2 000 inmates from 65 correctional centres around the country.

We have intensified levels of offender participation in various programmes which include sport, arts, culture, agriculture, and skills development programmes in collaboration with the Department of Labour.

Whilst the DCS sees itself as a place of new beginnings, we are concerned at the fast-growing trend of children who are in custody for having committed serious violent crimes. Our youngest offender currently is at Leeuwkop; he’s 13 years of age and is awaiting trial for murder.

One area of great achievement is the reduction of the number of children incarcerated in correctional centres. We have reduced the numbers of children in correctional centres by 51% from 4 129 in 2003 to 2 079 in

1. This came about as a result of an integrated intervention of the justice, crime prevention and security and social sector clusters that have taken collaboration to new heights over the past years.

Currently we are assessing the possible multiple implications the Child Justice Bill will have on Correctional Services to ensure appropriate design of its roll-out programme under the guidance, of course, of the Department of Justice.

Coming to HIV/Aids, we have reviewed our comprehensive HIV/Aids programme in line with government’s national strategic plan, NSP, which I am sure the House is aware of, and continue to improve on its implementation resulting in the following achievements: Firstly, 376 officials were trained as master trainers and peer educators; 296 support groups were established while also running nearly 6 000 HIV/Aids awareness and health education sessions; 320 were trained on voluntary counselling and testing and currently there are 16 accredited antiretroviral, ARV, sites in Correctional Services with 4 294 offenders on ARV therapy.

The progress we have made was also acknowledged by the Deputy President recently when we launched the 16th antiretroviral management site in the Pretoria Management Area. That was about three weeks ago.

Chairperson, we had made a clear undertaking before to intensify efforts aimed at mainstreaming victims’ roles and responsibilities in the management of our offender population, particularly in the parole system. We have invested substantial financial resources in this project, including the provision of training to the chairpersons and their deputies of 52 Correctional Supervision and Parole Boards as well as to all their support personnel.

Our Constitution implores us to ensure the basic human rights of all South Africans inclusive of offenders. These include everyone’s right to primary health care services, of course, subject to institutional means and resources.

It is common knowledge that the whole South African health care system has been suffering from the drain of scarce skills, inclusive of medical practitioners, nurses, psychologists and social workers. Correctional Services is indeed no exception to this norm, which informed government’s intervention through the introduction of the occupation-specific dispensation, OSD, for these professionals, also known as Resolution 1/2007.

With the number of social workers improving, the department reached 15 744 offenders over the past financial year. Spiritual care services were provided, with 165 000 sessions held, inclusive of group and individual sessions.

We reached only 84% of our targeted delivery of psychological services, with 13 034 offenders reached against our target of 15 500 in the previous financial year. We introduced the OSD for psychologists and educationists in the roll-out in 2009, and lastly, a job evaluation programme is under way as part of the department’s recruitment and retention strategy to improve the conditions of service of professionals in our employment.

Coming to the Judicial Inspectorate of Prisons, let me take this opportunity to thank the outgoing Acting Judge, Judge Yekiso, for acting in this position over the past year. I also want to welcome his successor, Judge Deon Van Zyl. Amongst the other tasks of the Judicial Inspectorate is to inspect or arrange for inspection of correctional centres in order to report on the treatment of offenders and their conditions; and to inspect any corrupt or dishonest practices in correctional centres. These are some examples; I’m not going to read the whole list. The allocated budget for this Inspectorate for the 2008- 09 financial year is R17 905 million.

The National Council for Correctional Services, NCCS, continued with its statutory responsibility to advise the Minister of Correctional Services in relation to parole placement recommendations for offenders serving life sentences. During the year under review, the NCCS has already interacted with the department in relation to the development of the incarceration framework as envisaged in the Correctional Services Amendment Act, which is an Act which recently passed through this House as well. The allocated budget for the NCCS for this financial year is R703 000.

In conclusion, I would like the thank the Minister, firstly, the Commissioner of Correctional Services, all the officials and executive members, the staff of the Ministry, the chairperson and your whole committee. Sir, thank you very much for the co-operation and guidance that you have provided to both the Minister and me. I think this will be the last opportunity we have to thank you publicly, but thank you very much and you have indeed contributed to the achievements that we’ve listed over the past four years.

Let us, therefore, place all hands on deck to ensure that it is “Business Unusual” and that the DCS indeed becomes a place of new beginnings. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Voorsitter, agb Minister, agb Adjunkminister, agb kollegas, laat my net toe om ook namens die DA ons meegevoel te betuig teenoor die persone wat so voortydig gesterf het.

Agb Minister, ek hoop daardie trok waarvan u gepraat het, het petrol in. U weet, aan die begin van die jaar het u nog gesê Korrektiewe Dienste is een van die swakste departemente in die land. Dit is op sigself ’n goeie begin om ten minste ’n Minister te hê wat die waarheid praat. Wat ook egter waar is, is dat daar uitstekende amptenare in die departement werksaam is wat alles in hul vermoë doen om hierdie departement te verbeter en ons dank u vir u diens.

Verreweg die grootste probleem met Korrektiewe Dienste is die gebrek aan spasie en fasiliteite om gevangenes te huisves. Die negatiewe gevolg hiervan is dat dit die werksaamhede van die hele departement verlam. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon colleagues allow me also, on behalf of the DA, to extend my sympathy to those who have passed away before their time.

Hon Minister, I hope that the truck you have spoken about has petrol. You still mentioned at the beginning of the year that Correctional Services is one of the weakest departments in the country. That in itself is a good start - to have a Minister who is at least speaking the truth. However, it is also true that there are exceptional officials in the department who are doing everything in their power to improve this department, and we thank them for that.

By far the biggest problem with Correctional Services is the lack of space and facilities to house prisoners. The negative consequence of this is that operations of the whole department are being paralysed.]

The problem of overcrowding has been with the department for ages, yet it has been incapable of solving this problem. If space is our main problem, the obvious solution is to build more prisons or correctional centres, as they are now called. Over many years monies had been budgeted for new facilities but the department was incapable of building enough new correctional centres.

We are pleased that at last there is some urgency with the construction of new facilities, but even when the buildings are completed we will still be faced with serious overcrowding. The budget of R4,4 billion or 10% of the total budget will certainly help the cause.

As far as the priorities of the department are concerned we must first of all protect the public from people who commit crime. Rehabilitation, skills development and reintegration are laudable and important aspects of our vision, but can and should not take centre stage. In fact, overcrowding makes it impossible to have an effective rehabilitation programme and it undermines the very vision of the department.

Instead of urgently constructing new facilities to solve the problem of overcrowding, the department started to release as many inmates as possible. This placed an enormous burden on parole boards and compromised the safety of law-abiding citizens.

Volgens mediaberigte het oudlanddros Lenie Smit die volgende gesê – en Minister, u het haar self aangestel :

Gevangenes word soos deur ’n worsmasjien op ’n misdaadvoos Suid- Afrikaanse gemeenskap losgelaat volgens maandelikse paroolkwotas om die las op oorvol tronke te verlig.

Landdros Lenie Smit, gewese voorsitter van ’n paroolraad, beweer sy was onder druk om 40% van alle paroolaansoeke maandeliks op parool vry te laat, ongeag die meriete van die aansoek. As dit waar is wat die oudlanddros sê, en ek het geen rede om haar stelling te betwyfel nie, is dit ’n onhoudbare situasie.

Minister, u het gister tydens die optog in Pretoria self gesien hoe siek en sat die mense is vir misdaad. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[According to media reports, former magistrate Lenie Smit had the following to say – and Minister, she was appointed by you:

Gevangenes word soos deur ’n worsmasjien op ’n misdaadvoos Suid- Afrikaanse gemeenskap losgelaat volgens maandelikse paroolkwotas om die las op oorvol tronke te verlig.

Magistrate Lenie Smit, former chairperson of a parole board, allegedly stated that she had been under pressure to release on parole 40% of all parole applications per month, irrespective of the merits of the application. If what the former magistrate is saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt her statement, it has become an unbearable situation.

Minister, during the march in Pretoria yesterday you saw how sick and tired the people are of crime.]

Chairperson, the second major problem in the department is that we are always in the news for the wrong reasons. Our previous commissioner Linda Mti was accused of serious fraud and our current commissioner is accused of misconduct at a very important function where Minister Lekota, Minister Mapisa-Nqakula and Minister Balfour were present.

Commissioner Petersen has started off very well and we hope that this indiscretion will not damage his very promising career. Mr Petersen, we really need your services and we wish you the best of luck for the future.

Tydens besoeke aan gevangenisse is dit altyd tragies om te sien hoe duisende jongmense in oorvol selle sit met absoluut niks om te doen nie. Hierdie ledigheid is sekerlik die teelaarde van onheil. Bendebedrywigheid en dwelmgebruik het hierin sy oorsprong. Dit is noodsaaklik dat ons maniere vind om gevangenes sinvol besig te hou.

In sommige van ons instellings word landbou op ‘n effektiewe wyse bedryf en tonne groente en vleis word geproduseer. In die Kirkwood-gevangenis in die Oos-Kaap het hierdie konsep homself oor en oor bewys. Wat egter in ons diens gebeur, is dat die landbouproduksie die afgelope 10 jaar met 50% gedaal het. Wat egter nog erger is, is dat die aantal gevangenes wat by landbou betrokke is, gedaal het van 6 600 na 2 200 mense.

Wat die personeel betref, is dit duidelik dat die moraal van gewone lede besonder swak is. Hierdie amptenare werk in ’n omgewing wat enige normale mens depressief sal maak. Voeg hierby uiters swak salarisse en die gevaar waaraan lede daagliks blootgestel is.

Minister, u sal moet toesien dat werkers van Korrektiewe Dienste beter werksomstandighede geniet. U aankondiging vroeër in u toespraak was baie welkom en ons dank u daarvoor.

Wat misdaad in ons gevangenisse betref, lyk dit asof ons boedel oorgee. Dwelms en wapens word met die grootste gemak in ons sentrums ingebring, in baie gevalle met die hulp van bewaarders. Voeg hierby die bedrog met tenders wat gereeld plaasvind, dan lyk dit werklik na ’n noodtoestand. Minister, dit is u plig om die bekwame mense in u diens te ondersteun en ons van verdere verleentheid te spaar.

Ter afsluiting wil ek graag vir regter Deon van Zyl welkom heet en vertrou hy sal waardevolle diens lewer as inspekteur-regter. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[During visits to prisons it is always tragic to see thousands of young people in overcrowded cells with absolutely nothing to do. This idleness definitely serves as a breeding ground for sinister activities. This is where gang activity and drug abuse have their roots. It is imperative that we find ways for prisoners to engage meaningfully.

Agriculture is being run effectively at some of our institutions and tons of vegetables and meat are being produced. This concept has proven itself over and over again at the Kirkwood Prison in the Eastern Cape. However, agricultural production in Correctional Services has declined by 50% in the past 10 years. Even worse than this, the number of prisoners involved in agriculture has decreased from 6 600 to 2 200.

As far as staff members are concerned it is clear that the morale of regular members is extremely low. These officials are working in an environment that would be depressing to any sane person. In addition, members are receiving extremely poor salaries and are exposed to dangers on a daily basis.

Minister, you will have to see to it that employees of Correctional Services are afforded a better working environment. Your announcement earlier in your speech is heartening and we thank you for that.

With regard to crime in our prisons it seems that we are giving up. Drugs and weapons are brought into our centres with the greatest of ease - in many cases with the assistance of wardens. Add to this regular fraud in tendering and it really seems as if we are facing an emergency situation. Minister, it is your duty to support competent employees and to save us any further embarrassment.

In conclusion, I would like to welcome Judge Deon van Zyl and I trust that he will render a valuable service as an inspecting judge. I thank you.]

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Hon Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, comrades and friends. When the Minister addressed this august House and said inmates will be used to build prisons or correctional centres, I immediately received questions from my two colleagues, hon Windvoёl and hon Tau, about whether we are not running a risk of allowing them to build escape routes. [Laughter.] I said I can’t respond to that; the Minister will have to respond to that one.

Let me take the opportunity to thank the Minister and the Deputy Minister for their co-operation at all times. Whenever the committee wants to engage them on anything, they are always available. If they do not show up in our meetings when invited, you must know that there is something very urgent that caused them not to attend.

Let me thank the Minister, the Deputy Minister, and the department as well, for always inviting our committee to attend all their functions or activities. We really appreciate this kind of gesture. To you, hon Minister, and your team, all I can say is that opportunities or good things will always follow those who walk an extra mile. This Minister, this Deputy Minister, and this department know that Parliament consists of two Houses. Thanks very much, hon Minister.

Let me now focus on things that we identified when we were doing our oversight on this department in the regions. The question of vacancies and understaffing is still a challenge. This challenge is affecting service delivery. Some of these key and senior positions, we were told, were vacant for not less than a year. This, I think, must be addressed as quickly as can be. We visited the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal, North West and Mpumalanga. The song that is sung by all the regions is the same.

One other challenge is the large sums of money that is drawn by officials who are sitting at home, idly, doing nothing, because they are suspended. We want to urge the department to speedily and expeditiously finalise these cases. We can’t allow people to keep on drawing money from the state, while doing nothing. This situation cannot be allowed to continue. I suggest that the department must create or have some measures that will assist in the speedy finalisation of these cases. I know the department will do something about it.

There is a complaint by some members of the community that sentenced offenders are idle and doing nothing in our correctional facilities, hence they have all the time in the world to think of these funny and silly things. Something must be done about this; I don’t know what, but I know a solution will be found. I also think they must be given some work to do, other than watching TV the whole day and the whole night. Let’s get a comment from the Minister about this.

Having said that, let me take this opportunity to thank the department for the work that is done by all our regions, especially commissioners, in the nine provinces. In some correctional centres they are producing food. In some other areas they don’t even buy food because the inmates and everybody are eating food that is produced by inmates themselves. If you go to places like Tzaneen, Rooigrond, and Barberton you will find these kinds of activities. I think it’s possible that all our correctional centres can embark on this project.

One other serious concern is the poor infrastructure in many of our facilities. Some of the buildings are old and dilapidated. At Zeerust and Nelspruit prisons the ceiling was collapsing and during the rainy season they leak like a sieve. On enquiry as to why they are not being fixed or repaired, the finger is always pointed at Public Works.

In last year’s budget debate we raised this question about the relationship between this department and Public Works. We were assured that the relationship is good and is improving daily, but when we go to these facilities, the contrary is true.

While we are on the issue, hon Minister, I would like to know whether we can’t create a means whereby your department can repair your own buildings, rather than waiting for Public Works because, at one correctional centre, they have been waiting for this one piece of ceiling to be put into that roof for almost two years; it’s in Zeerust, to be specific.

At Pollsmoor Prison you still find inmates who are sentenced to serving sentences of three to six months. Some are expected to pay amounts not exceeding R1 000. If there is no co-operation between this department and the Department of Justice, overcrowding will be our daily bread. What can we do to assist this department in making sure that the Justice department comes on board? That is why we are not going to win this war against overcrowding. Let me leave this one because hon Manyosi, I suspect, will touch on overcrowding.

But in passing, let me indicate that in Barberton Prison, a cell that is supposed to house 840 inmates is currently housing 1 500 inmates. In Nelspruit they are supposed to house only 828 but currently they are housing 1 212. If the situation is like this I wonder if rehabilitation will be effective. I think something must be done about this.

To make sure people who are recruited to work in this department are loyal, trustworthy, reliable, honest and good, hon Minister, don’t you think it’s high time that all senior officials who are employed in your department must be vetted? That is a question to you, hon Minister. This will assist in dealing with these unwanted elements in this department.

The last but one issue that I wanted to touch on is the question of officials in the department belonging to the General Bargaining Council, instead of them being in the Safety and Security Sectoral Bargaining Council. Officials in all your regions, when we visit them, complain that they were wrongfully placed under the General Bargaining Council when they are supposed to be in the security bargaining council because they belong to the security cluster. Your comments please, hon Minister.

Hon Minister, your officials are working under very challenging and trying conditions. The question is: How often are they receiving counselling? I don’t even want to imagine what would happen if you were to just take a few MPs to go and look after those dangerous criminals for only a week. It is not nice there!

We sometimes don’t appreciate the good work that is done by our officials. Hon Minister, I suggest that you one day ask us to volunteer to go and look after those criminals at C-Max prison or Kokstad. Let’s give these officials the support that they really deserve.

I would be failing in my duty if I don’t thank my colleagues for being such a good team. If I had my way, I would urge your political parties to redeploy you back to Parliament after the elections next year.

This reminds me of the day when, after visiting Barberton Prison, we travelled a distance of not less than 320 km to Volksrust. We finished our meeting at Volksrust at 21:15 and drove back to Nelspruit, only to arrive there at 01:20. We only went to bed after 02:00. The following day we were expected to leave the hotel at 06:30 to go to Graskop, and we did just that. I was so fortunate to be working with such a dynamic and hardworking team. Your reputation, colleagues, is not built on what you are going to do, but on what you have done. It is true that teamwork makes common people attain uncommon results. I am sure no one in this House can deny that, to enjoy the top of the mountain, you must first endure being at the bottom of the mountain. Thank you, colleagues. Le ka moso ga go be bjalo. Mmatlaseromo o palega manga. Ga go be bjalo. Ke a le leboga. A re thekgeng kgoro ye ya gešo. Ke re maatla ke a rena; ke a rena maatla. Ke a leboga. [Legofsi.] [Please keep up the good work. Diligence is the mother of good fortune. Keep it up. I thank you. Let us support our department. Power to the people! Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, with the very limited time allocated to me I wish to dedicate my input on this budget to issues related to rehabilitation of inmates and their reintegration into the community.

The first important issue is the social reintegration programme. This issue becomes more crucial when we look at the age of our youth who are in these correctional centres. Some leave school very early and they spend more time in than out of these facilities. The question is: How do we reintegrate them into society? For the most part, once they are released, they are too old to go back to school. They are unemployable yet at the same time they regard themselves as grown up.

We appreciate the effort made by the department officials on the Offender Rehabilitation Path. The key issue is education and participation in sports which could help in the improvement of the skills levels of offenders and enhancement of opportunities for their employability in partnership with the external service providers. Chairperson, we would like to see the sustainability of this programme. The question is, do we have enough funds to enhance this programme and enough trained officials to monitor?

The other thing is that as far as monitoring devices in Correctional Services are concerned, I suggest that there should be monitoring machines installed in cells so that the unauthorised movement of any person would trigger an alarm and alert correctional centre officials of such a movement. This will reduce escapes and a relevant incident like the latest Mathe escape attempt.

The other issue that we must not forget is the juvenile centre where we keep our young offenders. I know this will have to involve other departments such as Social Development. Focus on this issue has been lost. We did have such a centre namely Van Ryn Deep in Benoni and many, others. These centres have been closed. These centres must be reopened in order to keep young offenders out of the normal correctional centres and also to reduce the risk of placing some of these offenders who have committed serious offences in the custody of grannies and also guardians.

If I may go back to the issue of education, if you go to Westville you find excellent results. You find probably the best teachers who can teach. Now if we can have more of these centres where we can teach our youngsters then we would have alleviated this problem of society … … ngoba phela ucabange ukuthi ngonyaka ka 1976 laba bafundi - hhayi amacomrade - ababelwa babelwela inkululeko yemfundo ukuze abantu baphume ekuthini banesitha esiyimfundo, ukungafundi. Ngakho-ke abafundiswe laba bantu uma sebefike laphaya ezikhungweni zamajele. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.]. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[… because we must remember that it was the 1976 youth – and not the comrades - who fought for freedom in education so that people could come out of the mentality of seeing education as the enemy, thus not becoming educated. And therefore young offenders inside the correctional facilities must have a right to education. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

Mr A T MANYOSI: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of this House, leaders of the Department of Correctional Services, comrades and friends, I thank the one who saluted me and said “traditional leader”. Chairperson, I rise in support of the thoroughly considered Budget Vote of the Department of Correctional Services, tailored to confront the immense challenges of the department.

This is with particular reference to places of custody holding those of our fellow citizens who fall foul of the law, for which centres the ANC government has taken full responsibility to transform from conditions of squalor and mere concentration camps, as they were in the previous regime, into centres of correction, rehabilitation and reform so that we can ultimately reintegrate into normal societal life, as good citizens, those that have been involved in an antisocial way of life.

When the ANC struggled for and accepted the mandate conferred on it by the vast majority of the people of this country, black and white, it did so conscious and aware that it was accepting a mandate with untold and enormous responsibilities, given the legacy of the successive uncaring and inhumane regimes that controlled every aspect of the lives of South African society, which implemented such laws as the separate amenities Act that denied decent facilities to the majority of the people.

Prisons were not to be uncontaminated by this act of neglect by those regimes. My colleague from the Eastern Cape is perfectly correct when he says that this overcrowding has been there for ages, maybe for centuries, and that by now we should be pulling up our socks.

He is quite right because when the hon Carl Niehaus, as the chairperson of the committee on correctional services, at some stage visited some of those prisons that were neglected by the previous regimes, he could not believe it and he decided to close down a prison because it was not fit for human habitation. Now the Minister and his department are trying to correct those things. When looking at the issues of overcrowding in our correctional centres, the ANC government consistently reminds itself that, long before it came into power, it had the perspective that the law should not be there to oppress and dehumanise the people but to ensure their survival and therefore to promote human rights for all and not to deny some. The President of the Republic of South Africa, and indeed many a Minister, have committed themselves to address such challenges as overcrowding with the resources available to the government.

The Department of Correctional Services has made every effort to ensure compliance with the Constitution of which section 35 of the Bill of Rights states in part that everyone who is detained, including every sentenced prisoner, has the right to conditions of detention that are consistent with human dignity, including adequate accommodation, recreation and healthy conditions. It is clear that the department, from the reports that it has been giving us and from the documents that we have at hand, is determined to actually deliver to that effect. With this budget it strives to detain inmates in safe custody while maintaining their human dignity and developing a sense of social responsibility.

Let me now turn to the very important issue of the reintegration of offenders and the efforts of the ANC government to transform our society into a humane society with responsible citizens. I am convinced and confident, through interactions with the department, that the department is making every effort to devise constructive strategies to return inmates to their communities through its social reintegration programme.

This is being done precisely because offenders hail from and are groomed by communities. Because the ANC also understands that criminality is a product of social dislocation resulting from apartheid, illiteracy resulting from apartheid, economic inequality resulting from apartheid, unemployment resulting from apartheid, poverty resulting from apartheid and other legacies of authoritarian rule, it becomes of paramount importance to prepare sentenced prisoners for reintegration into society through, amongst other strategies, training and skilling and, again, the Constitution, in the section I earlier mentioned, enjoins the department to comply with this.

Let me hasten to say that on its own the department can scarcely achieve this without a co-ordinated structure that involves other departments, the private sector and communities, the DA and other parties - I often forget them. Together they should be developing approaches that are rooted in a sound analysis of what can effectively work to achieve the goal of reintegration.

On corruption, one of the most horrible things that has permeated and bedevilled our society is the scourge of corruption. It has more to do with greed and moral decay than any other factor. It gives one hope and encouragement to note that in line with the policy statement of the ANC government - in which it commits itself to fight corruption in all its forms to the bitter end within state and private institutions for effective service delivery and the betterment of the lives of all the people of South Africa - the department has adopted a zero-tolerance stance towards corruption and committed itself to participate fully within the government- wide anticorruption framework for the eradication of corruption within state institutions.

In conclusion, as I indicated earlier, I have been instructed to support the budget as it is. [Laughter.]

Mnu Z C NTULI: Ngibingelela uSihlalo, uNgqongqoshe Wozokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo nePhini lakhe, abahlonishwa nabahlonishwakazi. Kubukeka sengathi isibalo sabantwana abasebancane abasemajele siya ngokwanda. Ngonyaka ka- 2007, kwakugwetshwe abantwana abangamaphesenti angama-44 kwathi ababengakagwetshwa babengamaphesenti angama-56. Sizencane izindawo ezilungiselelwa ukugcina izephulamthetho ezingabantwana.

UMnyango Wezokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo kufanele uzame ukubheka indlela entsha yokuqondisa izigwegwe ezokwakha abantwana lapha abayizaphulamthetho. Lapha sikhuluma ngezingane ezineminyaka eyi-18 ubudala kuya phansi. Zikhona nesezedlulile eminyakeni eyi-18 kodwa nakuzo kubukeka sengathi kusafanele siyixoxe, Ngqongqoshe, le ndaba ukuthi uma sikhuluma ngezephulamthetho ezisencane sithi ukuyenyusa iminyaka, ngoba kuyesabisa uma usufika lapha ejele. Uvele ubone ukuthi azikho esikoleni, zilaphaya ejele.

Siyamangalisa isibalo sabantwana abasemajele. Izindawo ezihamba phambili iGauteng enesibalo esiyi-8234, iKwaZulu-Natali ibe nezi-6619, iMpumalanga Kapa ibe nezi-4157, iMpumalanga kanye neNyakatho Ntshonalanga zibe ne-5666, iNyakatho Kapa neFreyisitata zibe ne-3975 bese kuthi iNtshonalanga Kapa yona ibe ne-5622. Sikhuluma ngezingane lapha okufanele engabe zisesikoleni. Siyayibona ukuthi iGauteng igamba phambili bese kulandela iKwaZulu-Natali. Asazi ukuthi kusho ukuthini lokhu. Mhlawumbe kusafanele sibheke ukuthi kungani lezi zifundazwe zihambe phambili.

Ngesikhathi silaphaya e-Westville, safika sathola ukuthi kukhona izingane eziningi ezingafundi kodwa futhi zikhona ezifundayo. Lezi ezifundayo sathola ukuthi zenza kahle kakhulu esikoleni. Umatekuletsheni wakhona uphasa ngamaphesenti ayi-100 - kukhona nezithola o-A. Sase sizibuza ukuthi kunganjani ukuthi onke amajele abe nalezi zakhiwo lapho okuzothi izingane zifundiswe khona. Mhlawumbe kungasisiza kakhulu lokhu ukuthi ijele nejele libe nendawo lapho izingane zizokwazi ukuthi zifunde khona, ikakhulukazi lezi eziseneminyaka emincane.

Esinye sezinqumo zasePolokwane engqungqutheleni kaKhongolose sikhuluma ngendaba yokuthi kufanele kube indlela yokubheka izinhlobo ezehlukene zamajele ngokunjalo namacala, iminyaka yezaphulamthetho nokuthi mhlawumbe zingajeziswa kanjani zingayiswanga ejele. Lesi sinqumo siveza izindlela ezilula zokubhekana nezaphulamthetho ngendlela yokungazivaleli emajele. Siyaveza futhi ukuthi noma bebancane kodwa bayabenza ubugebengu obushaqisayo, kodwa laba abenza amacala amancane sengathi singaba nendlendlana yokuthi singabagqumi emajele ngoba isuke besibangena egazini le nto ngesikhathi behleli laphaya emajele.

EMlazi kunehhovisi abalisebenzisayo elibizwa nge-probation office lapho okuthi njalo uma amaphoyisa ebopha isephulamthetho esisencane abike kuleli hhovisi, bese lona liba nendlela yokumfaka lapha abangamfaka khona lo mntwana oboshiwe. Angazi noma akhona yini kwezinye izindawo lama-probation office. Ngikubona kuyinto enhle lokhu okwenzeka laphaya eMlazi.

UMongameli wezwe, uThabo Mbeki, wagcizelela lezi zinqumo ngokusho ukuthi uhulumeni uzoshintsha indlela okusebenza ngayo ezomthetho. Le ndlela izoveza izindlela ezingcono zokwandisa noma ukulungisa izimilo. Ngqongqoshe, iKhomishane kaJali yabeka umkhombandlela emva kokuba kade yenza uphenyo lwayo mayelana nezinto okufanele sizenze. Ngiyamethemba-ke, Ngqongqoshe, umphathi omusha wezokuhlunyeleliswa kwezimilo ukuthi uzoyibamba. Sengathi lezi zinto ezanconywa iKhomishane kaJali singazibona zenzeka ngoba ngethemba ukuthi kukhona lapho ezizosifikisa khona.

Okunye-ke, Ngqongqoshe, esikujabulelayo yilokhu kokuthi iziboshwa seziyakwazi ukuthola ama-ARV. Siyakhumbula ukuthi kwaze kwaba khona isixakaxakana kodwa-ke sesiyazi manje ukuthi sezikhona izikhungo zokuhlunyeleliswa kwezimilo esezikwazi ukukhipha lama-ARV. Enye-ke indawo esiye siyizwe inconywa iGauteng. Siye sizwe nokuthi izibhedlela zakhona seziyakwazi ukunikeza laba bantu ababoshiwe amakhambi ama-ARV.

Okwamanje singasho nje sithi lehlile izinga leziboshwa ezeqayo emajele uma uqhathanisa neminyaka eyedlule. Ezinye zazo kuyabonakala ukuthi bebesizwa abasebenzi boMnyango. Okunye okuhle ukuthi uMnyango uyaziqondisa izigwegwe zabantu abatholakala benesandla ekweqeni kweziboshwa. Siyakuncoma lokho, Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi basheshe bathathelwe izinyathelo laba okutholakala ukuthi bona igama lo Mnyango.

Ngqongqoshe, ngizogcizelela kakhulu sengiya ngasekugcineni ukuthi mhlawumbe kunokulokhu sikhala ngokuthi akwakhiwe amajele, asikhale ngokuthi kwakhiwe lokhu esikubiza nga-reformatory schools, lapho sizokwazi khona ukuthi abantu bayafunda kunokuthi silokhu sikhalela ukuthi abaqoqelwe ndawonye.

Mhlawumbe asibhekisise kakhulu ukuthi singenzenjani ukuze kwande ama- reformatory schools, ngoba kuyabonakala ukuthi isizwe sizophelela laphaya ejele uma kungekho okwenziwayo ukuvimbela lokho. Kusho ukuthi-ke, Ngqongqoshe, ngizothi udinga imali ethe xaxa ukuze ukwazi ukufeza zonke lezi zidingo ezingaka ezidingakalayo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Mr Z C NTULI: Chairperson, Minister of Correctional Services, his deputy, Members of Parliament, I greet you all. It looks like the number of young people in correctional centres is increasing. In 2007, at least 44% of the youth were convicted prisoners whilst 56% were awaiting-trial offenders. And we still do not have the necessary facilities in our centres to cater for these young offenders.

The Department of Correctional Services must try and find a new strategy for dealing with the wayward young offenders and putting them on the right track. Here we are talking about the youth who are 18 years of age and below. Minister, we also have youth who are slightly above 18 and it would seem that we still need to discuss the question of the age of minority because when one visits these centres, one can see that the conditions are appalling. You can simply tell from the first glance that these youth are not at school there, but in prison.

The number of juvenile offenders in correctional centres is astonishing. Statistics show that Gauteng has a record of 8 234 incarcerated youth; followed by KwaZulu-Natal with 6 619; Eastern Cape has 4 157; whilst Mpumalanga and North West combined have 5 666; both Northern Cape and Free State have 3 975, followed by the Western Cape with 5 622. Here we are talking about children who are supposed to be at school. I can see that Gauteng is leading the pack and it is immediately followed by KwaZulu-Natal and I do not know what this means. Maybe we need to investigate the reasons for these provinces leading in this regard.

On our oversight visit to Durban Westville Correctional Centre, we found that a lot of youths inside the centre were not attending school but some of them attended school. We found that those who are attending school are doing very well at school. Their matric pass rate is 100% and some of them even get distinctions. We then felt that it could be a good thing if all correctional centres could have these structures in place where these youth could be taught. Maybe this can help us a lot if every correctional centre can have a reformatory school where the youth can learn, more especially those who are below age.

One of the resolutions of the ANC conference that was held in Polokwane points out the need for finding a way of dealing with different types of correctional centres, crimes, the age of offenders as well as the different forms of noncustodial sentences. This resolution points out better ways of dealing with offenders without putting them behind bars. The resolution does, however, acknowledge that even though they are young and do commit serious offences, those who commit trivial offences should be catered for in a better way to avoid sending them to jail because they get addicted to prison lifestyle.

At Umlazi police station, there is a probation office where police officers report every arrest that they have effected on a young offender. This office in turn would then decide on a conversion programme where a young offender could be accommodated. I do not know if other places have this probation office. I consider what is happening at Umlazi as a good thing.

President Thabo Mbeki emphasised these resolutions by saying that government will change the way in which the legislative institutions operate. This strategy will come up with better ways of enhancing moral rehabilitation. Minister, the Jali Commission of Inquiry gave us a guideline as to how to deal with these things. I trust that the new Commissioner of Correctional Services will perform well. I wish to see the implementation of the recommendations of the Jali Commission of Inquiry because I hope that they can get us somewhere.

Minister, another thing that we are grateful about is that of qualifying offenders getting antiretrovirals. We all remember that there was a state of confusion regarding this matter but we all know that there are correctional centres which are issuing these ARVs now. Gauteng is said to be doing very well in this regard. We also heard that Gauteng hospitals are now able to issue ARVs to offenders. For now we can safely say that the number of escapees has drastically dropped when compared to the number in previous years. There are indications that some of them were assisted by the departmental officials. One good thing though is that the department is sternly dealing with those officials found to be responsible for the escaping of offenders. Minister, we appreciate that disciplinary action is immediately taken against those who destroy the department’s good image.

Minister, in conclusion, I wish to state that maybe instead of nagging you about building more correctional centres, we should put our efforts into asking you to build reformatory schools so that we should know that young offenders are attending school instead of idly sitting in prison.

Maybe we should think more on what we can do to increase the number of reformatory schools. If we put our energies into building prisons, it is clear that the whole nation would end up in jail if there is nothing done to stop this. In other words, Minister, I would say you need more funds to be allocated to you so as to achieve all this. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, thank you very much for giving us the last opportunity to respond to a few inputs that have been made by the hon members of the NCOP. We appreciate that you are going to make this department grow from strength to strength because as legislators you go out there, you see some of these problems and you are able to confront them and then bring them to the attention of the department as part of your oversight work. So every comment that has been made from this podium is taken quite seriously because it can do one thing and one thing only, and that is to make the department work efficiently. That is what it is all about.

Let me start with uBaba Manyosi. What I like about his approach is that he is approaching it purely from the viewpoint of the ANC as the party that is governing this country. I am a member of the ANC through and through and whatever the ANC policy is all about has got to be adhered to because we are the ones that are ruling this country. There is no “manga! manga!” [There is no doubt about it] business about it.

As for the issue of policies that we have brought in, we actually kicked out policies that were bad and developed new policies. These policies are now showing the way because the old policies had not yielded anything.

The reintegration of offenders is an idea that came only with one organisation and that is the ANC. With reintegration and the Offender Rehabilitation Path, ORP, and everything else we are doing, it is because that is the policy that we want to go on with as this organisation. Secondly, you are right: Offenders come from families, they do not drop from the sky.

Every weekend our facilities are full of people visiting and therefore we need communities out there to assist us because it can’t be the department on its own. Those mothers and fathers, relatives, girlfriends, spouses and spinsters who visit must assist us to spice up the lives of those who are inside, so that when they go out, they are sweet enough for them. [Laughter.] We can’t do it on our own. We need all hands on deck. It cannot be us as legislators; it has to be the communities who help us to do this.

Hon Le Roux, I am happy that you have approached it very well; you showed that there are deficiencies that you have pointed out. The first priority for us is the safe custody of offenders. It is a priority but we have to balance it with what we want to see when they get out because they will never be offenders for the rest of their lives. We have to do something about it.

I am not going to comment on the parole issue, and the former magistrate from the southern Cape. It will be really like that old analogy that when a dog bites you, you don’t go down and bite it because the person passing by might not know between the two of you who is actually the dog. So, I will not get into that at all.

As jy sê hulle het niks om te doen nie, sal ek nie sê jy lieg nie, aangesien ek ’n agb lid van die Parlement is. Ek respekteer jou. Hulle doen iets. [If you say they have nothing to do I would not accuse you of lying, since I am an hon Member of Parliament. I respect you. They are doing something.]

In every place you find them doing something. So, please visit with me. I like the idea that Kgoshi has come up with. The invitation is for us to go to Johannesburg officials and say to them, “Go away, let’s work here the whole day”. The people of the legislature, let’s work here and make sure that the RC, or whoever is in charge, whips us into shape.

An HON MEMBER: And Pollsmoor!

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Yes, and Pollsmoor. Any takers? Please write down your names and give them to Kgoshi. I would like to take you in June to do coalface work with us so that you understand what we are talking about.

Kgoshi, about understaffing and the turnaround of vacancies, you are quite correct. Corporate Services in my department is very, very weak. We have started to look at that with the commissioner by pulling down some of the delegations so that when we get to a centre like Barberton, whoever is in charge is not going to say they can’t appoint because it is national. That is coming to an end so that people right at the coalface take responsibility and don’t say “Headquarters, headquarters!” all the time. There is a problem; we need to get Corporate Services working.

We have been dealing with the issue of suspended officials, pushing the area commissioners and regional commissioners to get to these people. If it is a minor issue, let the person come back to work rather than spend money on a person who is sitting at home. And sometimes we do not gauge cases, we just suspend, suspend, suspend without even looking at whether the case deserves that.

I have offered that we will do food production everywhere we go. Unfortunately, as an ANC member, I cannot point a finger at another department of the ANC. I will never do that because the Department of Public Works, DPW, is a department of the ANC and therefore we work together. There will be times when there will be an imbalance here and there. As Correctional Services we are not alone in the business of building prisons. We have to depend on other departments to assist us and we are trying our best to make things work there.

Our relationship with the DPW is good. The two commissioners get on well and the two Ministers get on well. As for the issue of alternative sentencing, we have been crowing and crying about people who don’t deserve to be in jail. There is a young lady who has been sentenced to 30 months for stealing R304 and she has two babies.

Why are we doing this? Now we can’t do anything about it; we would have to take those cases back to the courts and sometimes presiding offices say to us that it is not a priority, they have their case flow and we bring all these people so let them stay there. I mean, for R304 we will be paying so much more for keeping this lady inside. It’s just crazy and unbelievable and these are cases that shouldn’t come close to where we are. We are paying for that one offender who could have been sent back to work and told to repay the money three times over and do correctional supervision and everything else. I do not understand sometimes and yet we as a department are struggling.

As for the vetting of officials, they are being vetted, trust me. But I want more of them vetted so that we can take some of the top staff from headquarters. Headquarters, to me, is growing bigger and bigger but the work is not at the headquarters; it is at the centres in Barberton, Nelspruit, Ixopo or Port Shepstone. We need people there to take decisions, not people sitting and taking political decisions in an air-conditioned office and then telling people who are working in dangerous positions, “No, you shouldn’t complain.” No, that should come to an end.

The issue of the security bargaining council has been raised many times. I know that the commissioner knows that and it’s not the Ministers’ responsibility only, we’ve got to talk to the Department of Public Service and Administration, the DPSA. The labour unions also have to insist that they’ve got to move from where they are; it can’t be left up to the Minister as I don’t take that decision on my own but I hear when officials talk about it. Bab’ uMzizi, ndigqibile. [Mr Mzizi, I’m done.]

Rehabilitation and integration is going very well and that young lady that we have just appointed is going to make sure that that works, otherwise why would I have appointed her if this thing doesn’t work?

With regard to the ORP and that kind of thing, monitoring machines and putting cameras in cells are still a problem. We get challenged by the human rights committee but we are still talking to them about those issues.

When it comes to changing the juvenile age, I think I tend to agree with that. There are young children that you see in these juvenile centres. With the programme for children in conflict with the law, which we presented last week through the commissioner, we need the Department of Social Development to work closely with us. We’ve been pushing for that. We have been talking about this, that we have to move the little ones into a place of safety, because once they go into a prison, it’s downhill for every child and we don’t want that.

I myself am a father. My son is 15 years old and I don’t have time to do homework with Joshua. I do it over the phone because I have to work for the people of this country and I have to do that as a father. When he writes exams, as is the case right now, I don’t even know what he is writing today and I have to phone him later to find out. So when you see the plight of children in these places it touches you as a father and sometimes people think because you’re a politician you don’t feel anything. That is why I will dedicate this speech to Nosiphiwo, that is my daughter whom I don’t see often, and Sbongile - we call her Ubhombhom. The third one is Sinalisiwe and my last-born is uJoshua. I dedicate this budget speech to them. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

     TAKING A LEAD IN BUILDING NATIONHOOD AND AFRICAN PATRIOTISM

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, in five days’ time it shall be exactly 32 years since the 1976 uprising. All our people agree that this day was more than just an event. It was a heroic feat that turned around the historical course of events in our country and ushered in a new era of struggle. As a result of that uprising, the eighties were to be a different kind of period. The vulnerability of the regime was exposed and its inevitable defeat ceased to be inconceivable.

It is correct that our country should every year commemorate that uprising and pay tribute to the young patriots who, on that day, committed a feat way above their shoulders, as well as millions of others who followed in their footsteps in the years that were to follow. Because of their magnificent bravura they laid a solid foundation for the youth of the eighties to raise the level of the struggle even higher and shed all fear of the regime and its forces of repression. Even when the regime unleashed its naked brutality in what became the most brutal decade of repression, it had, in their eyes and hearts, lost its initial invincibility.

Time and again the demands of the struggle would place upon the youth unprecedented responsibilities and called on them to commit heroic feats that would help propel the struggle forward and resolve the most urgent and acute problems of our people. During this entire period of the struggle, both before and after 1976, the youth acted with the knowledge and conviction that their struggle was part of a people’s war against racial tyranny and their interests as young people were integral and similar to those of the people as a whole.

They knew that only victory over apartheid would resolve their most fundamental yearning for a better and quality education and empowerment. The youth became the dynamic force of the struggle and its sharp end. Their patriotism reached new levels when they were engaged in the process, together with their people, to resolve the most intractable problems created by the system of racial capitalism.

Over time they understood that the liberation of Africa constituted a single process and that consequently our struggle was one with that of Africa’s independence from colonial bondage. Thus we were able to recognise our struggle’s inner unity with the continent-wide revolution in Africa as well as the anticolonial and progressive struggle throughout the world and to regard our pursuit of the African Renaissance as inseparable from that of our national democracy.

Through our struggle we were able to develop a common identity, solidarity and patriotism with Africa. It was for this reason that Africa as a whole was prepared to bear the brunt of apartheid and support our struggle at immense cost to our economic and political stability.

Only a supreme act of patriotism and sense of nationhood could deliver as heroic a feat as that delivered by the 1976 uprising. The fact is that historical events do not occur accidentally or in a vacuum. Accordingly, 16 June 1976 was indubitably produced by the confluence of social conditions and political climate that made it happen.

Any group of youth that found themselves in the same conditions and facing the same challenges as the youth of Soweto in 1976 would more or less have produced the same feats of struggle. The youth of 1976 discovered their mission on June 16. As they embarked on that fateful march that day, they had no prior knowledge of the sheer magnitude of their actions both domestically and internationally. They did not know that they held the destiny of their country in their hands and that they were about to write their own history and etch the name of their generation permanently on the archives of our nation’s history.

When, therefore, we commemorate this momentous occasion we are dared once more to pose the question: What does it mean to be young in the South Africa and Africa of today? What must the youth of today do both to emulate the heroism of the past as well as to raise the level of the struggle in view of the challenges of the moment? When we attempt to define what those events meant then and what they mean, or should mean, now we must not commit the often repeated error subtly to communicate the message to today’s youth that they are nothing when compared to those of yesteryear; that they do not measure up to them.

The story is told that the youth of the past committed acts of heroism which the present generation of youth is failing to live up to. The past was great, they are told, and the elderly generation was, as youth, a much better breed whereas the present generation is a huge disappointment. It often sounds like a statement that seems to suggest to the youth today that if they were faced with similar challenges as in 1944, the 1950s, the 1960s, in 1976 or the 1980s they would run and hide. But is this true?

The question is: If Tsietsi Mashinini or Kgotso Seatlholo were 16 years old in 2008, how would they have behaved? Or, if today’s youth were in high school in 1976 and faced with precisely the same political challenges that faced the youth of that year, how would they have reacted? What did the youth of the past have that intrinsically distinguished them from those of today and made them natural heroes?

It is thus simply unfair to accuse today’s youth of not being like the youth of the past when the social conditions and political climate that shaped and informed their thinking and action just does not exist today. It would be equally absurd to accuse the youth of the past of having lacked the sophistication and complexity of today’s youth. The struggles fought and the victory scored in the past must continue to be conveyed from generation to generation, but the lesson of those struggles must be clear: Each generation must discover its mission and fulfil it.

Asking today’s youth to become captives of the past, no matter how glorious that past was, will inhibit their search for their own mission and make its discovery nigh impossible. Out of the seeming slumber of the present a new uprising must and will happen. The lesson of 1976 is that simply because it seems calm it does not mean that there is no storm gathering force so that when it strikes the wool of self-delusion will be wiped away.

Today’s youth must be inspired to commit their own heroic feats of struggle and write their epic tales. The watershed of our struggle must become the pathways to the future not to the past. They must inspire the present and future generations successfully to summit the vicious mountains of their own time. Heroes and heroines do not simply belong to the past, but the difficult challenges of today will breed new heroes and heroines.

We cannot underscore enough the point that South Africa today faces enormous challenges that require comprehensive and targeted responses if we must reverse inequality, poverty and underdevelopment. This is even more difficult under the conditions of globalisation which reinforce the current global power relations and patterns of inequality and underdevelopment. The result is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

At the same time, both within countries and at a global level, there is a tendency towards increasing depoliticisation as witnessed by the youth’s increasing loss of interest and disengagement in politics and political processes such as democratic elections and political institutions. There is a decline in political and social consciousness as well as a decline in solidarity with the poor, especially amongst the middle-class youth. Many among our youth are failing to define their role in the South Africa and Africa of today. This sounds like a paradox especially at a time when we say that we demand more democracy and participation in decision-making.

The youth must resist the temptation of becoming indifferent and to stand idly and watch while others are constructing their future for them. They have an obligation to care about their own future and what it will look like.

It is common, though, that as democracy becomes ensconced, people tend to think that their lives will go on without politics and government, and begin to care less about what types of governments they have and what policies they are pursuing. They simply get on with their lives and lose interest in politics and democracy.

The aim of the democratic process which includes participation is thus negated by this diminishing role of civil society. The democratic process is a negation of social exclusion and marginalisation. This is more relevant in the South Africa of today which must take into consideration the impact of international migration and the need, therefore, consistently to define and redefine relations between various groups within our nation state.

International migration poses a direct challenge to our understanding of how we define ourselves as a nation, both in relation to one another as well as in relation to Africa as our mother continent. South Africa is regarded as one of the countries with the largest inflows of regular and irregular migrants.

Recent scenes of xenophobic attacks have tested our claim of being Africans and how we define ourselves in relation to other African people. Given that international migration is a growing phenomenon globally, we can no longer avoid engaging with this challenge. In order to continue to expand our perspective and combat xenophobia - which has phenomenally damaged our relations with fellow Africans in our country and our continent when there could have been other socioeconomic factors that could have contributed to the recent incidents - we must rebuild the pride of the South African youth in being African, and their knowledge and understanding of, passion for and solidarity with Africa.

This cannot happen only through lectures and school subjects, important as these obviously are, but must be forged and fostered through conscious programmes of interaction and exchange which should include encouraging them to travel to and work in Africa as exchange volunteers or even solidarity workers.

The fact is that while most of our youth aspire to travel to and may even identify with Western Europe and the United States, very few of them expect that they will travel to Africa or even identify with her difficulties.

The fact is that there is little person-to-person interaction with youth of other African states, and South Africans are obsessed with negative Western myths and stereotypes about Africa and Africans.

We’re welcoming of the whites and Europeans in a manner that we are not applying to Africans, because we believe that the latter are below us and substandard, hence when they are in South Africa they are here to steal our jobs. Yet there is so much we can learn from the immense entrepreneurial spirit of the African immigrants, the wealth of their culture and the enormity of their spirit and resilience.

Much of what we know about Africa is largely informed by a popular media steeped in Afro-pessimism. We spend too much time trying to find that which distinguishes us from the rest of Africa. We enjoy being patted on the back by the West and likened to it. We then get surprised when our likeness with Africa is laid bare as though Africa was not one continent and all Africans one people.

The question is: How does it help us and our pursuit to be different from the rest of Africa? How did it happen that the strong sense of African solidarity and identity we forged during the struggle has so easily and quickly been discarded? South Africans can never claim to be citizens of the world until they have claimed and asserted their Africanness. It is when we embrace our identity as Africans that we can be embraced by humanity as whole as part of itself. Our very struggle against apartheid was premised precisely on the reclaiming of our Africanness and our humanity. The youth must thus be taught both that South Africa is an African country in Africa and that Africa is bound by a common destiny. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: House Chairperson, Deputy Minister, comrades and colleagues, I looked at all of you in the House as I was trying to figure out who is the same age as me. I know of one, though!

Chair, I want to say that when I look at myself and you, I think back to 32 years ago when I was a student at Fezeka High School in Gugulethu. The events of one Wednesday, 11 August 1976, in the Western Cape changed things. It’s like it happened last year. None of those young students had it in their minds that one of them would be standing here today. I want to repeat the words I uttered yesterday: Viva the spirit of asijiki [no turning back]!

I-ANC ayizange ikhombe indlela iphinde ijike; kungoko ndisithi eyethu into ayiguqu-guquki. Ngabula Brenda, “indaba yethu istreyiti, ayifuni rula”. [The ANC did not show us the way and then turn back; that is why I say we are not going to change. Like Brenda says, “Our business is straightforward, it does not need a ruler.”]

For many years, young people in South Africa experienced very challenging conditions, including lack of opportunities, poor infrastructure and race- based access to education, training and development. They were exposed to high levels of crime and drug abuse.

Ukusekwa kweKhomishoni yoLutsha kweza nenguqu enkulu ebomini babantu abatsha. Amathuba abantu abatsha, ngakumbi abo babengakhathalelwe ngurhulumente wocalu-calulo, enza ukuba noko bazibone nabo bengabantu abanazo izakhono zokwakha eli lizwe, ukuze sonke sihlale ngolonwabo, Mnu Watson.

Kwakhona, ndikwafuna nokuthi masingenzi ngathi konke kulungile, kuba amandla olawulo engakuthi,. Nangoku kusekho ukungalingani ngebala, into leyo ke esele ibangwa kakhulu kukungalingani kweepokotho. Nangoku abasetyhini - okanye mandithi, Sekela-Mphathiswa, abesifazana, ukwenzela ungahambi ufunana nabasetyhini nje – ngakumbi abasemaphandleni, abakaxhamli , kwaye namathuba akakavuleleki kakhulu.

Ukuba sithetha ngokwebala, nangoku abantu abaninzi abangaphangeliyo ngabamnyama. Xa sisiza kumba wemfundo, mandithi … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.) [The establishment of the National Youth Commission brought about a big change in the lives of young people, especially those who were previously disadvantaged by the apartheid government. It made them feel like people who have the skills for building this country, so that all of us stay in peace, Mr Watson.

Again, I want to mention that we should not pretend that everything is well just because we are in power. Even now there is still discrimination based on skin colour. This practice is happening because we are not at the same economic level. Even now, the fairer sex – or let me say, Deputy Minister, women, to make it easy for you and so that you do not go around looking for the fairer sex – especially the ones from the rural areas, are not enjoying the privileges, and opportunities are still few.

If we talk colour, even now many of the people who are not working are black people. When it comes to the issue of education, let me say …]

… for many years in South Africa, education was used as a key instrument in reinforcing the apartheid regime’s racial policies and legislation. Many matriculants could not be employed. Today’s government has recognised that for young people to be the future’s economic foundation, it has to empower and invest in this sector. However, this is not how we would have liked things to be.

Yinqwelo ecothayo le, ifana nendlovu. Kambe ke, ngenye imini iya kufika apho iya khona. [This is a slow wagon; it is like an elephant. However, one day it shall reach its destination.] There is still a need to put more resources into this sector, which will assist with combating the many social challenges we are still faced with.

Kubantu abatsha ndifuna ukuthi, thathani inxaxheba ngoba amathuba emfundo avulelekile noko ngoku kweli lenu ixesha, kwaneendlela zokuphila nezomsebenzi zingcono. Ngelaa xesha lethu wawungaba ngutitshala, unesi okanye ube ngumabhalana nje. Ngeli ke ngoku ixesha noko siziguqule izinto, abantu baba ziinjineli, iijaji, ooprofesa, njl njl. Kaloku maninzi amathuba, kwaye nakwezemidlalo aphangalele. Siyabafuna abanye ooMakhaya Ntini okanye ooKhaya Malotana. Ndiyazi ke ukuba ndichaphazele umba obuhlungwana, onobuzaza nobuhlanga, kodwa ndicinga ukuba le Komiti kaQabane uTolo mayiwuqwalasele lo mba, ngoba uyafuna ukujongwa. Makungakhululeki abantu ababini sibaninzi kangaka. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[To young people I want to say, they must take part, because educational opportunities are open these days, and also the working and living conditions are better. During our days you could only be a teacher, nurse or just a clerk. Today things are different; people can be engineers, judges, professors, etc. Now the opportunities are many, even in sports. We want to have more people like Makhaya Ntini or Khaya Malotana. I know that I have touched a sensitive issue, which is racial and thorny, but I think this committee of Comrade Tolo could take serious note of it, because it needs special attention. Democracy is not for a few people; it is for all.]

Young women must involve themselves in the fight against sexism and discrimination.

Ngezingekho ezaa zinto zazenzeke phaya kwisitalato iNoord ukuba abantu abatsha bebeliqonda nabo igalelo labo. [If the young people knew how important their contribution was, what happened in Noord Street would have been avoided.]

The ANC’s contract with the people encourages partnership with other partners against poverty, unemployment and lack of opportunities. Let us do so by strengthening the resolution from our Polokwane conference on the merger of the National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, and of course, other provincial initiatives.

Ndicinga ukuba siza kutsho siwubone umahluko, ngakumbi apha emaphondweni, nanjengabantu abamele amaphondo apha. Sinako ukuzenza kakhulu ezi nguqu. Mhlawumbi kuyafuneka ukuba sijonge namanani ekusebenzeni ezi zinto. Okwangoku izinto zingekaguquki ncam siyanyanzeleka. Mandiqgibezele ngelithi, kuloo maqhawe namaqhawekazi anikezela ngegazi lawo ukuze sikhululeke, igazi labo lisathetha. Nanjengoko i-ANCYL iza kuqgibezela inkomfa yayo, sinqwenelela inkomfa leyo isidima nesithozela kwesi sihlandlo, nanjengoko kulindelekile kwimibutho engaphantsi kwe-ANC. Ndiyabulela. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[I think we are going to see the difference, especially in the provinces, as people who represent the provinces here. We can make the difference. Maybe we should compare figures when we are working with these. For the time being we are forced to do so. Let me conclude by saying to those heroes and heroines who sacrificed with their blood in order for us to be free, their blood is still inspirational. As the ANCYL is going to finalise their conference, we wish them a dignified and peaceful one this time, as we also expect that from other structures which are under the ANC. I thank you.]

Ms D ROBINSON: Hon Chairperson and members, I am frequently asked in public fora to reflect on the state of our nation on what the future holds. Without exception, when addressing young and old I make every effort to encourage everyone to take hold of all that is good in South Africa and to join me in the betterment of our society.

I value these opportunities because they afford me the chance to do something to reflect about where we are heading as a nation and whether I’m comfortable with the direction we are taking. I have had several such occasions recently and the best I can do is to share some of the insights that I have gleaned. We are all aware of the serious social challenges facing our country. I will not elaborate on them here. Yet it is worth noting that the youth of our country suffer the impact of those social challenges more than any other group. Youth unemployment is higher than the national average. Violent crime, we are informed, is almost exclusively committed by young males and substance abuse is most prevalent amongst the youth. Indeed, in the Western Cape, drugs, especially tik, have a vice-like grip on the youth in our community. In Atlantis, the community has been hit by a wave of teen date rape which has been used to fuel Internet pornography.

As distraught as the victims and their families feel, they are more disillusioned with the criminal justice system that seems to offer the perpetrators of crime too much opportunity to escape conviction.

Why is it that so many cases are thrown out of court? Is it because of poor investigation or the lack of will to confront the issues? Surely the heavy case loads and poor working conditions of social workers, police, public prosecutors and magistrates add to the problem of low morale and resulting inefficiency. The focus of the government should be to increase the number of well-qualified appointments in all these disciplines so that we are not seen to be failing society, especially our youth.

In another part of Cape Town, at the University of the Western Cape, I recently met a group of passionate young students who are studying to be teachers, but who can no longer afford their studies because there are no state bursaries available to those who do not major in Maths or Science. History, Afrikaans, Geography, Economics, Accountancy, etc, are overlooked because they are not seen to fall within the national priorities. Many of these students will be forced to give up their studies because of lack of finances. Other young teachers who have qualified and who are committed to serving our country in state schools are forced to look abroad to pay off their enormous student loans.

We need to look at more flexibility within our systems so that we can keep our young people in South Africa. I know of a young Science and Mathematics teacher who came to investigate teaching in South Africa, but had to return to England, disappointed, because he could not afford to live here and meet his commitments because of the poor salaries paid to teachers. Government needs to look at making it practical and affordable for young people to return to the land of their birth and to serve the nation as they would like to do. In a few weeks’ time, learners will be enjoying the mid-year holidays, yet many of those learners will not be able to return to school next term and they will be forced to drop out to seek work or to be snapped up by the lure of drugs, gangsterism and a life of crime.

Government needs to sharpen its efforts at curbing crime. Sadly, those who do graduate are met with a job market where there is a dearth of opportunity. Unemployment and poverty are the source of much of what is wrong with our country. We need to look at an economy and a labour market that is less regulated and more encouraging of entrepreneurship. As legislators we must ask ourselves what more must still be done to ensure that the dreams of those youth who took to the streets in 1976 are realised in the free South Africa of 2008.

As politicians we have much to do. It strikes me that above all of these challenges, the youth of South Africa are tired; tired of a brand of politics which bickers and divides instead of offering more solutions. Instead of representing the differences in opinion of our people, political parties have come to be the cause of those differences. In doing so we have alienated our youth and made them become thoroughly disinterested in politics and politicians.

In 1996, our then Deputy President Thabo Mbeki inferred that we are all Africans, that we share a common heritage despite the different course of our histories. How far our nation has fallen from those lofty heights where we now have politics characterised by deep divisions and mutual suspicion! The youth of 2008, just like the youth of 1976, will not accept this status quo. I, for one, look forward to the youth leading a new social uprising, but a nonviolent one.

This time they will begin to demand leadership that begins with people not committees and commissions; leadership that understands that government is supposed to be inclusive and never exclusive and a leadership that is there for all the people.

The youth of 2008 are sending us a message that they are all African, that they love their country and are passionately devoted to its future. The challenge the youth today place at our feet is a challenge that resonates throughout our nation. Let us take up the challenge to work for a common patriotism for all the people of South Africa.

Mr R J TAU: Chairperson, I think one must state from the outset that we are very disappointed as the ANC. We have so many political parties in Parliament and in this Council, but they do not find it necessary to participate in an important debate such as the youth debate, which has a very significant bearing on the future of our country.

Over and above that, we’re raising this dissatisfaction as the ANC, taking note, of course, of the fact that in the past Budget Vote debates we’ve had in this House so many political parties participating in them consistently raised the issue of young people being excluded from the mainstream of the South African economy.

Perhaps our approach as we engage in this debate, hon Deputy Minister, should not stop us as the ANC from reflecting on the role of young people and the extent to which they have shaped this particular country. This takes us as far back as 1949 when the ANC Youth League took a decision and adopted a programme of action, which shaped the direction the country was supposed to take. It was that group of young people led by comrades Nelson Mandela, Anton Lembede and Sisulu who then took it upon themselves to say, “Our future is in our hands and there is no way this country can wait until tomorrow.”

It is the very same young people of that generation who also contributed immensely leading up to the adoption of the Freedom Charter, when they volunteered to go on a door-to-door programme to ask our people what kind of South Africa they wanted to have.

It is these very same young people, once more, who, when matters could not get to a point where the regime could understand the need to ensure that South Africa was decolonised and no longer characterised by interests that sought to serve the few, then took a decision to form uMkhonto weSizwe, which was the military wing of the ANC.

It is these young people, who then sought to ensure that South Africa, with them at its helm, would never again become the country that it used to be. Under the leadership of Nelson Mandela, in the early sixties, it was the very same young people who were then able to agree to send out the very same commander-in-chief, Nelson Mandela, to Algeria to go and receive his first training on guerilla warfare to come and ensure that South Africa is free.

It was once again young people who played a very strategic role during the seventies by going out and organising workers in our country and ensuring that they conscientised those who were put at the periphery of the economy. This led to so many strikes, one of which was the potato strike, which played a very significant role in the organisation of the African workers in South Africa.

It therefore shows that the ANC as an organisation has played a very significant role in consistently conscientising young people, in consistently raising young people and ensuring that, in whatever way, they occupied the centre stage that led to our democracy. That is why 1976 did not come as a surprise. That is why in 1976, with the uprising and the mobilisation of young people, we then found a young person who also felt that there was no other way, and he had only one choice, which was to submit or fight – and that young person said, “I am going to fight in order to defeat this ugly system that does not agree with our views.”

It is that very same young person who, if given a chance, would have played a very significant role today in the democracy that we are enjoying. But, unfortunately, in 1979 this young person left a very profound message behind which said: “Tell my mother that I love her and my blood will nourish the fruit of freedom.” It is these young people who played this particular significant role that gave birth to a generation of young people under the leadership of Comrade Peter Mokaba, because of whom we are where we are today and nothing stops us, once more, from reflecting in that was on what is happening here.

It was once again a group of young people who, at the time when Africa was colonised by imperialism, when imperialism had entrenched itself so much so that there was no space to fight or to organise, were asked what it was that they would do in order to allow the freedom of others to perish or succeed.

There was a group of young people and women from the Caribbean country called Cuba who said, “Whatever it may cost”, who left their country, who dedicated their lives, who joined those who were in the country and who fought alongside uMkhonto weSizwe to defeat the regime that was trying to ensure that it extended its tentacles into Africa to defeat the objective of achieving freedom in our country. Hence, today, because of the efforts of those young people, because of the dedication of those young people, because of the consistent encouragement of those young people who were able to drive that kind of battle, today we celebrate the 20th anniversary of the battle of Cuito Cuanavale.

Like those young people, once more, we, upon realising that we do have our freedom asked, perhaps as the Deputy Minister asked: what is it that we need to do to ensure that we keep up the momentum; to ensure that we don’t lose track of our young people; that we keep the spirit that our young people had during that time and keep the level of consciousness to ensure that our young people feel like South Africans and that they are part of Africa and want to make a contribution, not only in Africa, but in the world at large?

Are we doing enough? That is the question we need to be asking ourselves as hon members in this august House. Are we saying, with the level of consumerism that has found expression amongst our young people, that we are doing enough? Are we saying we are doing enough if for a young person to see himself as a successful person he thinks he must be better than the others?

Are we saying that we are doing enough as members of this august House to inculcate a spirit of co-operation amongst our young people for them not to see themselves as individuals, but as part of a collective; for them to see themselves as part of a generation that needs to launch its own struggle. I don’t know whether it is an insurrection or whatever that the hon member from the DA was relating to.

With the remaining seconds that I’m left with, it is important, of course, to reflect and say that our programme in this Parliament, our experiences in our constituencies, have taught us that there are many challenges that our young people are experiencing out there. Hence there is no way as the ANC that we can stop encouraging and ensuring that the 52nd resolution of the ANC is implemented to ensure that there is an integrated approach in dealing with problems of young people rather than to have disjointed and anecdotal approaches.

On that basis, Chairperson, I thank you very much and hope that the political parties that did not participate in this debate … as I encouraged the hon Mzizi this afternoon, if not this morning, by saying to him I hoped he would represent the views of the youth brigade so that we begin to look at whether it is still relevant today in our country. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I thank you for an interesting though brief debate. It is important to emphasise that the National Student Financial Aid Scheme is available to all students in the universities of our country.

We must, of course, raise concerns about the rising fees of our tertiary education institutions. Our tertiary education is becoming inaccessible to the poor and working class; tuition fees continue to rise. If we don’t deal with this matter, the circle of poverty may not be broken because it is only the children of those who can afford it who will then gain access to higher education, and the children of the poor and working class will remain in learnerships and the National Youth Service Programme only. It is therefore important that this matter should be raised continually so as to succeed in appealling to the conscience of our universities and their councils to ensure that higher education becomes accessible to the majority of our youth. We have to do that because we need to keep as many young people within the education system as possible.

At present, out of all the young people who graduate from Grade 12 every year, only about 10% will gain access to the universities. What happens to the rest, because there is not enough employment? So most of our youth would then be thrown into the growing pool of the unemployed.

There is a need to address youth unemployment because you cannot have, in such a society such as ours, large numbers of latent energy idling unused, because if it’s not used, it will express itself in other ways, including in particular in socially deviant ways such as crime and alcoholism. I also want to say that there is nothing unique in South Africa about youth participation in politics.

Globalisation internationally creates these conditions where young people increasingly disengage; their consciousness declines. Their civic, political and social consciousness declines and politics becomes a spectator sport. As we correctly say, there has never been a decade in South Africa in which the youth did not play a role in the struggle. The question is, now that the struggle has been won, what is it that we are supposed to do? What are political organisations doing to mobilise the youth to deepen their political and social activism, to raise the level of their political, social and civic consciousness as well as their responsibility? What are we doing to raise the level of leadership and the all-round competencies of the youth?

It doesn’t help to stand on podiums and complain when you see that all over our country there isn’t sufficient investment in youth organisations and their autonomous existence. The autonomous existence of youth organisations affords the youth the opportunity to make mistakes and, indeed, young people have to make mistakes; that’s the only way to learn. The older generations, instead of standing above the youth judging them and reminding them about what a good breed they were in the past, need instead to engage young people to help them to correct the mistakes that they may be committing.

Take for example the fact that in South Africa we’ve got preventable diseases such as cholera, including HIV; they are all preventable. We have thousands of youth at universities, what do they do? How are we engaging these young people in the Eastern Cape, in Delmas in Mpumalanga, to educate those communities about the usage of water, about hygiene, about healthy lifestyles?

As political organisations, we have a responsibility not to join the chorus of those who lament declining consciousness and activism but to do something instead to build strong youth movements that are able to intervene when our people are facing acute challenges as they are at present. Similarly, it is good to criticise, but it is better to suggest what can be done to correct what you think is a mistake.

Youth development in our country has not received the level of attention it requires, especially from the private sector which possesses the largest volumes of capital to be able to intervene in the socioeconomic conditions of the youth, as well as civil society in general, including government departments. Many try but there are many that can still do better.

We have the National Youth Service Programme, but if we dedicated more resources than we have done so far, we would be in a much better condition to intervene in the situation of the youth to give them hope, to inspire them to strive for new uprisings in the fields of education, health, science and technology and social life in our country.

We must view youth development and youth mobilisation as two sides of the same coin and adhere to the principle or to the slogan “Youth mobilisation for youth development and youth development for youth mobilisation”, because these two things are inseparable from one another. We have to encourage our youth to seize the opportunities of democracy.

It is incorrect to argue that there is a dearth of opportunity in our society. An amount of R562 billion is spent in the Budget, of which 60% is for social services in this financial year; this Budget has been growing. We have to find ways to use this budget; not in the usual old ways of doing things but to intervene in the situation of the youth. Because if we don’t, we must bear in mind that youth unemployment constitutes 70% of all unemployment in the country and that these unemployed youth don’t have skills either.

If we don’t intervene in that, we will have great difficulty in addressing the challenges of building South Africa into the future, of inspiring the youth, of instilling hope in them so that they are able to carry the hopes of our nation and raise the level of our nation’s struggles and pursuits to higher levels.

It is important that we continue to engage young people in these debates and, above all else, to be winners ourselves so that we are able better to support the youth. Thank you very much.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 17:19 ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

(1)    The JTM on 10 June 2008 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified
     the following Bills as section 75 Bills:

      a) Protection of Information Bill [B 28 – 2008] (National
         Assembly – sec 75).

      b) Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B 29 – 2008] (National
         Assembly – sec 75).

      c) South African Police Service Amendment Bill [B 30 – 2008]
         (National Assembly – sec 75).

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister for Intelligence


      a) Intelligence Services Amendment Bill [B 37 – 2008] (National
         Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
         prior notice of its introduction published in Government
         Gazette No 31126 of 5 June 2008.]


      b) National Strategic Intelligence Amendment  Bill [B 38 – 2008]
         (National Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of
         Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
         Government Gazette No 31126 of 5 June 2008.]


         Introduction and referral to the Ad Hoc Committee on
         Intelligence Legislation of the National Assembly, as well as
         referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
         classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
         of the Bills may be submitted to the JTM within three
         parliamentary working days.

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(1)    Mine Health and Safety Amendment Bill and National Energy Bill,
     2008, submitted by the Minister of Minerals and Energy.  Referred
     to the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy and the Select
     Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Correctional Services

   (a) Report of the Judicial Inspectorate of Prisons for 2007-2008 [RP 26-2008].

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the Additional Protocol on the Trade, Development and Cooperation Agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the European Community and its Member States, dated 11 June 2008:

The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Additional Protocol on the Trade, Development and Cooperation Agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the European Community and its Member States, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231 (2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Cross-Border Road Transport Amendment Bill [B51 B – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 11 June 2008:

The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the subject of the Cross-Border Road Transport Amendment Bill [B 51B – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

Report to be considered

1. Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Social Housing Bill [B 29B - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76), dated 11 June 2008:

 The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the  subject
 of the Social Housing Bill [B29B - 2007] (National Assembly – sec  76),
 referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 76 Bill,  reports
 the bill with amendments [B 29C – 2007]


 Report to be considered