WEDNESDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2009
                                ____

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:00.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                             NEW MEMBER

                           (Announcement)

The Deputy Speaker announced that the vacancy which occurred owing to the resignation of Mr W D Spies had been filled by the nomination, with effect from 1 September 2009, of Mr A D Alberts.

                         SOLEMN AFFIRMATION

Mr Alberts, accompanied by Dr C P Mulder and Mr P J Groenewald, made and subscribed the affirmation and took his seat.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

                           SOCIAL SERVICES
                              Cluster 2

MINISTERS:

                University funding and related issues

1. Dr W G James (DA) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training:

   (1) What is the basis for his recent statement (details furnished) that the amount of research undertaken by the universities constitutes the primary indicator for university funding;

   (2) whether a review will be conducted with regard to university funding; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

 (3)    whether he will increase the funding  to  our  leading  research
     institutions; if not, why  not;  if  so,  what  are  the  relevant
     details;

  (4)   how will he ensure that these institutions are models of
      excellence that are able to compete with the best universities in
      the world?                         NO1122E

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to state first that I’ve not made a statement that “the amount of research undertaken by the universities constitutes the primary indicator for university funding”. It is important that it is noted that the current funding framework distributes funding in particular proportions, which I will not mention here for the sake of time. I will leave the framework for the hon James to see the figures as to how we distribute funding.

Nevertheless, the most important thing I need to say is that no review has been finally decided on yet, although I am considering the possibility of appointing a review of the funding framework during the course of next year. Although the current funding formula has worked reasonably well, it has come under criticism as a result of certain weaknesses which I would like to see corrected. The main weakness of the formula is that it applies to all institutions in a “one-size-fits-all” manner. The former Department of Education has long been committed to a differentiated higher education sector. I, in common with most higher education experts in this country and abroad, agree with this vision. We have different needs as a country, and no institution can meet all of them. Currently we have a formula which applies equally to traditional universities, universities of technology and comprehensive universities. In addition, it applies to both research-rich institutions with a greater number of postgraduate students and those whose research capacity is smaller.

There is currently no consideration to increase or decrease funding of specific categories of university subsidy. The Department is certainly also not planning to reduce research or other funding to any specific university. Institutions will continue to operate on the basis of the current funding formula until it is changed. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Dr W G JAMES: Chairperson, does the hon Minister not recall from his university days that universities are always about research and teaching, and that this therefore is a matter of emphasis? Therefore, any comment that more attention should be paid to teaching institutions - as reflected in the funding formula - requires a recalibration of that formula as a consequence of a strategic vision and plan. My question is: What is the plan? Will you present the nation with a plan for change in the higher education sector, following which a new formula would result? Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, I agree that universities are about research, but they are not only about research. Even the type of research that universities are taking at the moment – which is one witness in the formula – there is more recognition, for instance, for articles of research published in scientific journals. Yet, there is a lot of research, for instance, that is being done to support communities - for local development, etc - which does not equally get the kind of support and attention. For a developing country like ours, we need excellence in all forms of research that has been done by universities traditionally. But we also need to recognise that there is a new form of research. Some of those researches conducted do not reach any scientific journal, but they are making concrete changes in the lives of ordinary people on the ground. [Applause.]

Ms N Y VUKUZA-LINDA: Chairperson, I hear the Minister is saying that the research funding formula will not change. But for historical reasons, universities of technology are unable to produce the required research outputs. As such, they are forever lagging behind as compared to traditional universities. Does the Minister have any plans to fast-track research capacity development at universities of technology specifically? Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, just to correct the hon member, I did not say that the research funding will not change. I said that in the light of representations that have been made to me, as well as the anomalies that I was talking about, I am considering appointing a body to look into the funding of universities, including the funding of research. Obviously, we have three categories. We have what we call traditional universities, comprehensive universities and universities of technology. So, when we are looking at supporting research at universities, we must also look into supporting all the universities in so far as research is concerned. This will be done in a manner that is aimed at strengthening those institutions that have developed particular specialities, especially in the case of universities of technology and their importance in skills development for our country. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Minister, we accept the fact that different universities have different research capacities. We also know that there were deliberate efforts in the past to raise research capacities in some universities, especially in the so-called white universities. If you can go to previously disadvantaged universities you will find that the research capacity leaves much to be desired. My question is: Are there deliberate efforts from your part, hon Minister, to raise research capacities in universities which lack such? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, the department, for an example, has already been given earmarked funds over the past five years for historically disadvantaged institutions, especially rural universities, to give them support in specific areas - infrastructure, as well as research. Indeed if we are to transform the higher education landscape, we have to continue to have a particular focus to strengthen the research capacities of these universities in line with the mandates that they will be required to carry out, given their regional location or their particular speciality. For instance, one thing we are considering which will interest you, Mr Mpontshane, is that we would like to strengthen the research capacity of the University of Zululand in African languages.

INyuvesi yasoNgoye iyona yodwa ekhiqize isichazimazwi sesiZulu. Sifuna ukusekela futhi siqinise lokho ngoba ingeyokuqala yalolu hlobo lapha kuleli lizwe. Ngakho–ke ngiyethemba ukuthi kuzokujabulisa loko ukuthi nalapha kamakhelwane khona okuhle esikucabangayo ngeNyuvesi. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The University of Zululand is the only university that has published an isiZulu dictionary. We want to support and confirm that because it is the first of its kind in this country. So, I believe that you will be happy to hear that as neighbours there is something good that we are thinking for the university. [Applause.]]

Ms C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, with South Africa about to host the fourth World Summit on Arts and Culture and thinking about research being the primary indicator for university funding, obviously this criteria may or may not be used to fund arts facilities where research may not be seen to be such an issue. How will this be looked at? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, I think I will come back and give an answer to this question at an appropriate time. We have, for instance, committed ourselves with the Minister of Science and Technology that we do need to come up with a comprehensive strategy on how to promote research in higher education institutions and in different areas like arts, including indigenous cultures and all that. But we will come back to this at an appropriate time because we want to look at this in a comprehensive manner, especially now that we have a government that is committed to more co-operation amongst departments and not departments operating in silos.

        Medicines destroyed by public hospitals in Free State

1. Mr D A Kganare (Cope) asked the Minister of Health:

 (1)    Whether he has been informed of medicines that were destroyed by
      public hospitals in the Free State last month; if  not,  what  is
      the position in this regard; if so, (a) why were these  medicines
      destroyed and (b) what was the cost of these medicines;

 (2)    whether any action has been taken against any official in this
       regard; if not, why  not; if so, what action?      NO1143E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, the department has been informed that there were expired medicines that were recently destroyed in the Free State province. According to the report from the province, there has been a backlog in the destruction of expired medicines for the past three years due to the contractor not having a qualified pharmacist for the certification of expired medicines. As a result, the Free State Department of Health had to intervene and use its own means to destroy the medicines concerned.

According to the province, the medicines are valued at about R10 million over a four-year period. It is the Minister’s view that in the face of the general shortage of medicines and the disease burden faced by South Africans, we cannot afford to have medicines staying unused until they expire. This is one of the reasons why we have decided to prioritise the overhauling of the management and reinforcement of accountability at all levels of the department and its institutions.

If the hon member is suggesting that there was any negligence on the matter, the hon member is hereby informed that the director-general has since been instructed to fully investigate the matter and to report on any system failure or personal responsibility. Remedial action will be taken promptly should the investigation prove any negligence. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr P B MNGUNI: Chairperson, I am standing in for hon Kganare.

Thank you for your response, hon Deputy Minister. We are a little concerned about the slow pace of the department in terms of ensuring that this does not happen. Our expectation was that the director-general should have been suspended immediately if the Minister was satisfied with the information given to him. So, we expect prudent action, Deputy Minister. Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon member, there are some things that can be taken on trust but still need to be verified. I trust that you would raise matters out of concern for people, but I will need to verify the things you raised. Even if we had verified that something wrong was done, there would have to be due processes. So, I cannot understand why, on the basis of your question, you expected that we would have dismissed the director-general of the department. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Hon Deputy Minister, what are the challenges with regard to expired medicines in public facilities? Are they extreme in number, particularly the Free State? What can be done at a national level to improve the situation? Are the difficulties experienced in the Free State exclusive to the Free State or are they problems that manifest across the board? What are the details in this regard? Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, I wouldn’t use the word “extreme” in relation to this problem. Yes, I have already given the quantities for the Free State. We have found that there are pockets in the country where this problem has appeared. We have identified the general procurement and distribution system as a major challenge. This is not only on the part of the department, but it is the state in which medicines leave the sending factories and our capacity to actually verify that what leaves the factory is not close to its expiry date. These are the general issues of capacity that we will address in order to avoid the recurrence of what has been raised by the hon Kganare. Thank you very much.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Minister, the DA believes that the provision of quality health care to all South Africans must be one of our chief priorities. Sadly, this is not the case in the Free State. Earlier this year, the Free State Health department refused antiretroviral medication to new patients due to its dire financial predicament. In addition, the department halted all nonemergency surgeries as part of intense cost-cutting measures. Even as a Free State hospital turned away Aids patients in desperate need of medication, the provincial government was in the process of spending R49 million on the Mangaung African Cultural Festival. Does the Deputy Minister not agree that the continued inappropriate appointments of unqualified persons into key positions have led to this fundamental incompetence and meltdown of health care in the Free State? I thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, we are equally concerned about the quality of care and the safety of all persons who use our public health facilities. We have not found any link between what has happened in the Free State and the funding of the Mangaung festival.

The suggestion that people have been denied antiretroviral treatment is not true. Just last Friday, the National Health Council met to confirm that provinces had taken measures to reprioritise funding to ensure that we sustain funding for antiretrovirals. Thank you very much.

Ms S V KALYAN: Hon Deputy Minister, I think you are misleading this House when you indicate that antiretroviral medication was not denied to patients in the Free State. They were denied. There was a budget constraint, and there was not enough money to treat newly diagnosed persons and put them on medication. Now, sir, you have indicated that this is a bad state of affairs and that the director-general is going to conduct an investigation. I would like to ask you what timeframe you have given for the investigation and whether the results of that will be brought to this House.

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, on a point of order: I don’t think an hon member can refer to the Deputy Minister as having misled the House. That’s a very serious statement to make, which requires investigation. I would ask the member to withdraw that reference.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Hon members, please don’t enter the fray. There’s a point of order. “Misleading” has a particular understanding, obviously from wherever a person stands. However, if the member had said “deliberately misleading” that would have constituted a serious allegation. But she didn’t say that. She only said “misleading”. So, it then therefore depends on where you stand. For now, it’s not really a … [Applause.] …

Order, hon members! You may continue, hon Deputy Minister.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: I would nevertheless deny that I am deliberately or otherwise misleading this House, Chairperson.

Hon Kalyan, our information is that we had such a problem towards the end of last year. The Minister at the time, Minister Hogan, did go to the Free State to personally investigate the matter and verified that the report was true. She promptly went ahead to mobilise resources, financial and otherwise, to ensure that people were put back on treatment and that measures for sustaining the programme were put in place. If indeed the hon member is suggesting that there is a recurrence of the problem, we will be able to verify it by the end of this week, which is Friday, and we should be in a position to report to the House on our findings. Thank you very much.

  Contingency measure to prevent large-scale repossession of houses

1. Ms B N Dambuza (ANC) asked the Minister of Human Settlements:

   (1) Whether his department has engaged with the banking sector and home loan agencies to draw up contingency measures to prevent the large-scale repossession of houses due to the current economic recession and the consequent defaulting of bondholders on their payments; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

 (2)    (a) how many houses have been repossessed during the period 1
      April 2009 up to the latest specified date for which information
      is available and (b) what is the total monetary value of houses
      repossessed during this period?          NO1095E

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, I don’t intend or contemplate deliberately misleading this House on anything.

The question is about whether we have made contact with the banking sector in view of the fact that South Africans right across the board are losing their homes through repossessions – ordinary poor people and of course many people that look like some of us around here.

Let me state at the outset that owing to the difficult economic period the country is going through, arising out of the international economic downturn which affects the country in so far as we have a local economic recession, this phenomenon of ordinary South African citizens losing not only their homes but various other possessions - their vehicles, the contents of their households, their ability to send their children to school and losing through many other ways - is an ongoing phenomenon which is associated with an economy that is not performing that well.

We all know that our country should have had, by the year 2000, an economic growth rate of 6%. That has not been achieved. In real terms, this means that we have a deficit. This is compounded by the international events I described as well as by the current recession.

We note with sadness, of course, that because many people are losing their possessions, something has to be done. In this case, we have interacted with a number of stakeholders associated with human settlements, primarily the beneficiaries, particularly the poorest of the poor. We have also interacted with construction companies and companies that supply materials. We are all aware that as a result of the inflationary climate in which we find ourselves, the cost of these construction materials has gone up significantly.

We will be interfacing in due course with the companies involved, both the manufacturers and suppliers of such materials, so that an intervention can be made. Directly, we are in touch with the … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Hon Minister, your time has expired. I don’t know whether you were told that you only have limited time.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I was not aware.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): You were not told?

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Yes.

Let me say, Chairperson, we are in touch with the banking sector. We have received communication and also sent communication to the CEO of banking, Cas Coovadia, and we will be sitting down with the banks so that we can discuss innovative and other ways of addressing this question. But we must state that although banks can make a difference, it should be very clear that South Africans should be very prudent in so far as how they manage their mortgages.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Thank you, hon Minister. You were given an extra one minute on that issue.

Ms B N DAMBUZA: UMphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, ndiyabulela ngengcaciso yakho egabalala. [I thank you for your detailed explanation.]

Given the fact that there is quite significant information on house repossessions that have taken place and the arrears on current mortgages between April and July 2009, is the Minister convinced that the government’s strategy, negotiated with Nedlac, the National Economic Development and Labour Council, and the Banking Association SA, Basa, will be sufficient to deal with large-scale repossessions which will, unfortunately, follow as a result of the global economic turndown that is also affecting South Africa? If not, what measures are in place to monitor the trends of Basa in adherence with the commitment made prior to the situation becoming critical and affecting the government’s commitment of achieving a quality and better life for all?

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon member, let me state that the measures you referred to in respect of Nedlac are not sufficient. They can never be sufficient because we are dealing here with a moving target, particularly as I indicated earlier about an economy that is not performing that well within the context of the recession. However, I indicated earlier that we would engage with them to have innovative and creative ways – other ways – of thinking, which I cannot table here alone before this House. This will be the product of further discussions with the banking sector about what they can do. But we must also be mindful that the banking sector in itself is entrusted with public money. What it does with those funds is constrained by constitutional obligations as well as regulatory mechanisms. We will engage with them. We will try to massage the situation with them, but also be mindful of the fact that they have obligations to protect the money in terms of the Banks Act.

Mr A C STEYN: Minister, from your answer here this afternoon, it is obvious that nothing has actually been done to come to the rescue of the many hundreds of thousands of homeowners whose homes have already been repossessed and those that are still under stress as far as their mortgages are concerned. The fact that you say you will be meeting with the Banking Association, I’m afraid, is too little too late for those people. This is because surely we are not asking for you to negotiate with them that their mortgages be written off. But the sort of thing that you could have done with them is, for example, asked them to extend 20-year mortgages to perhaps 30 years for people in distress and perhaps for there to even be some type of a freeze on their mortgage payments for six or twelve months.

You mentioned contractors and material suppliers. I’m afraid we are talking about people who are currently in homes already. So those negotiations are certainly not going to help the people that I think we asked you in this question to use your influence for and to assist them. So, what exactly are you going to be discussing with the Banking Association to assist those people who are currently in distress and are about to lose their homes? Thank you, Chair.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, it is unfair to say to a Minister who has been in the post for three months … [Interjections.] Yes, it is unfair. We are grappling here with a very serious problem that is confronting all of us. I have indicated that we will be getting in touch with the banking sector. You are also aware that I’ve been getting in touch with beneficiaries by and large as far as Diepsloot and the N2 here are concerned. Last week we were in the Eastern Cape – Buffalo City. We are even going to the hostels in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal to deal with this problem. We have standing meetings with the banking sector. We are not just meeting people on a one-on-one basis. You will be privy to those meetings.

Hon member, I invite you to come to those meetings as well, because they will be open at the end of the day, so that you can see what it is that they would like to table before us and what it is that we are going to be tabling in front of them. There are many schemes that you can put forward, but you must be ever mindful of the fact that you don’t force the banks. You can’t do that. You bring them on board. The Minister of Higher Education, under the banner of the Communist Party, spoke with the banks in the past and that is how we came to have Mzansi banking, which became an all-round success. [Applause.]

So, in this particular case, I cannot table here the contents or the agenda of the meeting we are going to hold with them. We will hold that meeting. We will hold them accountable to certain guidelines, measures and targets. But this must be a discussion of adults, of people who are all engaged in trying to find a common solution to the problem that is common to all of us here. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, on a point of order, Sir: Is it appropriate for a Minister to use Question Time to pat another Minister on the back? [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! That is not a point of order, hon Ellis, you know that very well.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, I may be a member of the Communist Party. He doesn’t know.

Mr B W DHLAMINI: Minister, considering that you have been in the post for three months, I will put this question differently. [Laughter.] Would you, Minister, consider also engaging municipalities and the companies that have been engaged by municipalities to run what we call “rental stock”? This is because economic difficulties are not only affecting those who have bonds because they qualified, but they are also hitting hard on those who cannot access bonds and those who can also not access RDP giveaways, who are therefore put into rental stock.

Companies that have been engaged by municipalities have a different view and mandate from your department in terms of providing shelter. They are making people pay exorbitant amounts of money. For example in Payneville, Brickfield and Kliptown in Gauteng, you get people paying about R1 700 a month for a unit the same size and quality of an RDP house. Would you consider engaging them to make sure that we don’t evict people as government? Thanks.

Adv T M MASUTHA: Chair, on a point of order: I think that is a totally different question. It is not related to the main question. Could you give a ruling on that?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Which question is that?

Hon Minister, you may continue. I didn’t get the point of order.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, well, the point of order is actually correct because the question I’ve been asked is in respect of evictions by the banking sector. But I think it is a fair question, and demands a reply. It would be difficult for me to present my diary here. But, hon member, rest assured we have actually started having these discussions with various municipalities. I indicated that we have done this in Gauteng and in the Eastern Cape, as well as down here. We have also been in touch with the provincial government here. So, we will put forward proposals. We will engage people on innovative plans. This is a moving target. The economy isn’t performing that well. I put this on the table too.

The solutions that we have to locate must be sustainable. They mustn’t just be talk for the sake of having a meeting so that I come back and say, “Yes, we have engaged.” This is a serious problem. Our people are having difficulties outside there. So we view this with the seriousness it deserves. It is not something for us to gain.

Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, I will not ask a new question. If I may I would like to take the Minister back to the original question. The Minister did not have, I think, the opportunity to answer the second part of the question that deals with the number of houses that have been repossessed since 1 April 2007 and the monetary value involved. Could the Minister perhaps answer that part as well? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you for that question. It is quite a simple one. According to information that has been obtained from Basa, more than 3 900 houses have been repossessed. The total monetary value of those houses is almost half a billion rand. Commissioning of study regarding single-medium public schools and dual and/or parallel-medium schools

1. Dr C P Mulder (FF Plus) asked the Minister of Basic Education:

   Whether she, with reference to her reply on 22 July 2009 to question 86 and her reply on 3 August 2009 to question 451, will order an independent scientific investigation in order to establish exact figures regarding the number of (a) single-medium public schools for each of the 10 indigenous languages as well as (b) dual and/or parallel-medium schools where English is one of the mediums of instruction; if not, (i) why not and (ii) how, in light of the absence of such data, will her department determine which schools conform to the National Language Policy; if so, when? NO1146E

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I have a very simple answer, because I think the FF Plus has really been insistent on this question. I agree, hon Mulder, that I will seriously consider commissioning a study involving all key stakeholders in education. Based on this commitment I guess all the other questions fall by the wayside.

The reason why I say “consider” is that we still have to find the budget and the people to perform the work. So, we will keep you informed as soon as we find money in our budget to commission the study.

Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon Minister for her answer. Obviously if the Minister agrees to what we are basically suggesting, then I think it is very positive. We welcome this in the light of what the Minister says - to make this kind of study possible to see exactly where we are heading. I must remind the House about what the hon President said last week when he answered supplementary questions regarding the relevance of this kind of mother tongue education and its importance in terms of our schooling.

Could I then ask the Minister, in terms of her reply, if she could perhaps give some indication of a timeframe because if it is a long drawn-out process that takes very long, it is not going to assist us? At the moment we’re in September already and next year children have to go to school again. The sooner, we believe, it can be resolved, the better in the interest of all of us and all the languages. Is it possible to give us some timeframe or indication of what the Minister may have in mind? Thank you, Chairperson.

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, the reason why I was not able to commit myself to say I will commission it is that I have requested the director-general to see if we can identify the resources. So, I should get back to you quite soon. But I am not sure if we will be able to do anything before the beginning of 2010. The latest we will be able to commission this is when we have reprioritised the 2010 budget, which means we can only introduce this in 2011.

However, if there are other urgent issues that the FF Plus wants us to attend to, we will do that in the interim. In terms of the study, I am not in a position to say that we will indeed start it in September so that we can finish in October to enable us to implement it in January. I am unable to do that. That is why I deliberately said that we will consider commissioning this because I do not have any concrete resources, programmes or even any commitment to say that indeed I will start on this. We still have to identify resources.

What I can promise is that it will not drag on forever beyond 2010. By 2010 we will definitely commission the study in readiness for 2011 if we are not able to do it between now and 2010.

Dr A LOTRIET: Hon Minister, I will pose my question in Afrikaans.

Agb Minister, u voorganger het by verskeie geleenthede na die belangrikheid van moedertaalonderrig verwys en President Zuma het so onlangs as verlede week in die Huis saamgestem dat moerdertaalonderrig belangrik is vir die verbetering van die kwaliteit van onderrig in skole. Dit word ondersteun deur die navorsingsbevindings dat moedertaalonderrig effektiewe leer en akademiese prestasie van leerders beduidend bevorder, die aanleer van ’n nuwe moedertaal vergemaklik, die gevoel van eiewaarde by die sprekers van die verskillende tale verhoog, en die ontwikkeling van inheemse tale self bevorder.

In die lig hiervan en ook van wat so pas gesê is, dat daar dalk ander dringende sake is wat onder u aandag gebring moet word, wil ek vir u vra, agb Minister, of daar ten opsigte van die implementering van moedertaalonderrig - voordat ons nog by ’n opname kom - spesifieke planne en aksies bestaan; nie net ’n beleid nie, maar planne en askies vir die implementering en bevordering van moedertaalonderrig? So ja, wat die resultate is, en of daar al enige vordering in dié verband gemaak is? Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Minister, your predecessor referred to the importance of mother tongue instruction on various occasions, and only last week President Zuma agreed in this House that mother tongue instruction is important for improving the quality of education in schools. This is supported by research findings that indicate that mother tongue instruction significantly promotes effective learning and academic achievement of learners, facilitates the learning of a new mother tongue, increases the self-esteem of the speakers of the different languages, and promotes the development of the indigenous languages itself. In light of this as well as what has just been said, namely that there might be other important matters that must be brought to your attention, I want to ask you, hon Minister, with regard to the implementation of mother tongue instruction, whether – before we turn to a survey – specific plans and actions are in place; not a policy, but plans and actions for the implementation and promotion of mother tongue instruction? If so, what are the results, and whether any progress has been made in this regard? Thank you.]

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I fully agree with the statement that was made by the member with regard to the importance of mother tongue instruction in education. We have lots of evidence in our education system to confirm that indeed mother tongue instruction - especially in the foundation phase - is quite crucial to the academic performance of our learners. We are committed as a department; you will recall that the language policy in Education advocates for that.

Some of the constraints, especially with African languages, relate to the question of the availability of resources and to the availability of personnel to teach in these languages. It however also relates to the resources of the department - whether it allows us to implement the policy in its entirety with regard to other logistics. For instance, in the case of Afrikaans-speaking schools, one might use half the capacity that is available because one wants a single medium in school and then compromise other financial considerations. One has to balance the resource allocations and efficiencies with the language policy.

In terms of the statement, we are in full agreement. I don’t think there’s a debate on that matter. I think it is very important for the department to gradually implement its policy on languages. The long and short of it is that the policy has not been fully implemented. It is important to ensure that we implement the policy.

In areas where we find resistance in terms of language of instruction, especially in the African communities, it is very important - and I have mentioned this to the officials - that we educate our people about the academic value of teaching in African languages for all the reasons we have given. I think because of other perceptions in our communities that English enables people to access the economy and also because of all these other myths that they believe about the value of English, there is a need for us to de-school our people and make sure that they appreciate and understand the value of mother tongue instruction and the fact that English is not necessarily the key to the world. English is just another language like other languages. People study in Portuguese and are still able to travel all over the world. This is a process we have to go through. We have started with the work and we will give you more information as and when you ask for it. We agree with your sentiments.

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Chairperson and the House, the National Language Policy developed by the ANC government through the department has ensured that all languages are accommodated and that children have the right to be instructed in their mother tongue and that we cannot preserve or promote certain languages like it used to happen in the past. May I therefore enquire from the Minister whether the independent scientific investigation, as requested by Dr Mulder, will bring out any radical changes to the situation where parent communities themselves have the right to determine the language policy in their schools through their own school governing bodies, SGBs? If you have accurate figures or data that is being requested to answer this question, will this situation ever change?

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, for me the study is very important for the reasons I have mentioned before. It is also important to educate other people who do not understand and value the importance of mother tongue instruction. At that level it is very important.

My personal view on the matter from past experience is that learners who performed well in our education system were learners who had the advantage of being taught in their mother tongue. So, it is very important to acknowledge that Afrikaans-speaking children were performing exceptionally well, English-speaking children were performing very well and that African children had to suffer alone. So, it very important that we get the statistics and educate our people about the value of mother tongue instruction.

I think it will radicalise our education system if we implement these policies. It is not a question of preserving Afrikaans or not. For me it is also to confirm that it is important to ensure that people appreciate the value of mother tongue instruction. We would not want, for instance, to destroy that which works during my term. It works to have people receive instruction in their languages. If the study will help us to maintain a situation where Afrikaans-speaking children are taught in Afrikaans, one does not want to break that which works. It works, so let us strengthen it.

I don’t have any problems with whether or not we preserve Afrikaans, but I have an interest in ensuring that all children are given an opportunity to learn maximally in a language that enables them to reach their full potential. That is what the issue is to me; it is not about Afrikaans. It is about what is important to our children for them to acquire knowledge in the best language to enable them to reach their full potential, and that would be their mother tongue.

 Plans for volunteer teachers teaching ABET for more than five years

1. Ms A C Mashishi (ANC) asked the Minister of Basic Education: What is the plan of her department for volunteer teachers who have been teaching adult basic education and training (ABET) for more than five years? NO1097E

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, with regard to the question relating to volunteers in the Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, programme, we don’t have volunteers in our Abet programme as it stands now. We have no volunteers in public education learning centres, which are departmental institutions.

Provinces employ educators either part-time or full-time. So, there are no issues about volunteers there. We have volunteers in our mass literacy programme - I think the member wanted to relate to this. Currently, we are utilising about 35 000 volunteers who participate in a campaign for literacy education. This is a short-term programme. These people are formally unemployed, and we give them stipends from the campaign to cover expenses which they incur. We are currently in discussions with the sector education and training authorities, Setas, in an attempt to ensure that our volunteers are accredited for the knowledge we are giving them through the campaign through recognition of learning. We wish for them to use this experience as portable knowledge which they can use in other areas.

All of the volunteers have passed Grade 12. These are young people who have the capacity, orientation and interest in education. We are already offering them scholarships to get into the profession. This also helps us in terms of recruitment. Some of these kids go there on a voluntary basis and then fall in love with the profession. We are assisting them to become qualified teachers.

The long and short version of the answer is that we don’t have volunteers. So, there is no issue or question around stipends or other things. We don’t have volunteers in the Abet programme but in the literacy programme.

Ms A C MASHISHI: Hon Minister, thank you. I heard you talk about the Kha ri Gude volunteers. In line with your response, are there other possible initiatives or plans to ensure that the experience already gained by the Kha ri Gude volunteers is not lost outside of the field of education? I heard you touch on this, but I need more clarity on that. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, as I said, currently there are two processes around these volunteers. One is around the Setas. We want the Setas to recognise the knowledge and the experience we are providing these volunteers when they volunteer in the programme, so that they are recognisable and therefore portable and usable in other areas. But for those learners who, as I said, show aptitude, attitude and orientation towards education, we are recruiting them and encouraging them to go into teacher training institutions and offer them bursaries. So, those who really have the passion for teaching will not be lost. But those who came in as volunteers because they wanted a stipend and are not necessarily interested in the profession, they obviously don’t want to stay, and we also don’t want them to stay.

Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS: Speaker, I would just like to indicate to the hon Minister that the correct term is Adult Education and Training, AET, and not Abet. I have checked this with the department.

One of the reasons why AET teachers are leaving is that they feel neglected and as if they are second class citizens within the education system. Does the department have a plan to keep AET teachers updated and fully briefed about developments within the formal system on a constant basis?

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, it is indeed a challenge that when most qualified young professionals don’t find posts, they go into the adult literacy programme as a waiting station. When they find jobs or when posts appear in the schooling system, they then apply to be full-time teachers.

The reason we are not able to make them full-time teachers is that they work for four hours twice a week. The hours that they work in these programmes do not qualify them to be full-time teachers. That’s one of the problems. As a result, this makes the sector very unstable. So, I’m aware of those problems. But because these are professionals who are waiting in there and who have an interest in the mainstream of schooling, we keep on updating them about changes in the education system and give them opportunities for training to ensure that when they apply to come into the education sector, their skills will be up to date with the changes that have been happening in other sectors.

This continues to be a challenge because people who go into this sector are people who are willing to work part-time. In a sense, it’s not just people who are willing to work part-time, but these are people who are waiting for posts in the sector. This is what causes instability.

How do we keep them? I don’t know. We were not able to do this even in provinces because the hours they work don’t qualify them to be full-time employees. They are paid for the hours they work. Others are very happy with this. This allows them to do some work at home - in the case of housewives who are qualified teachers- and only do two hours of teaching a day. But, as I said, others don’t go there because they wish to work part- time; they are waiting for other jobs. I hope this answers your question. We can’t keep them, but we are training them.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Deputy Chairperson, we saw a lovely example of adult basic education just behind the Minister when she was still responding to the previous programme, when the hon Minister of Correctional Services was assisting the hon Minister of Human Settlements with the computer system on the desks. [Laughter.] We just want to know if there is a specific qualification necessary for this operation? [Laughter.]

On a more serious note, we accept that there is a sort of instability in this particular sector. Are we moving towards lifting the level of qualification to perhaps beyond matric? The Minister indicated that this is almost a waiting station. So, what can the department do to ease their way into becoming fully-fledged educators in the system? We understand that there is a huge challenge with literacy programmes. But what will be done to attend to the shortage of teachers in the broad system of education? Thank you. [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, there is going to be great hope because the Abet section of the department is going to Higher Education. This is going to be linked up with skills. It will be a fully-fledged programme that will be better than what it is currently. There is great hope that within Higher Education, it will be a fully-fledged Abet programme. We will give it the whole stability that it requires. There is great hope in this regard. I am very optimistic that with the new Minister, it is going to work.

Kha Ri Gude [Let us learn] is a short-term campaign. It is a literacy programme. These are matriculants who are volunteers. They have been trained to use the manuals we have. There is no intention of making it a fulltime programme. Volunteers in this sector are the ones we are recruiting to train as teachers for the mainstream so that when the campaign is over, we will have recruited volunteers who fell in love with the profession. We are getting a number of those who are enjoying the work of teaching and are falling in love with the profession. We are recruiting them to go and train as educators. That, again, will create that stability.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, I want to ask the hon Minister if the department has actually done the long-awaited review that was going to be done on Abet. What proposals, apart from moving it to Higher Education, have come forward in terms of improving access to teachers and the delivery and quality of this important service in general? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I’m embarrassed to say that I didn’t hear the first part of the question. I’m sorry. I’m not being rude. I actually didn’t hear the first part.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! I see that the hon Minister of Higher Education is pointing at hon Ellis. [Interjections.] Well, I know; I heard you. But it was a positive comment, hon Ellis, you don’t have to worry.

You can repeat your question, hon Dudley. Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you.

Hon Minister, I just wanted to ask if the department had done the long- awaited review of Abet in general, and what proposals, apart from moving it to Higher Education, had come out in terms of accessing teachers and delivering quality in general?

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon member, I can really assure you that this is a very exciting programme because we are having discussions with Higher Education. This is an extremely exciting programme that Higher Education is working on in terms of stabilising the sector and opening access.

We, as Basic Education, are even discussing with them the possibility to use some of the Abet centres or even Further Education and Training, FET, colleges to train some of the teachers as foundation teachers. I think with time, when we are ready, we should be able to unveil a better plan in strengthening the Abet sector. But from our discussions, this promises to be an extremely exciting and very stable programme, which is a much better improvement to what we currently have in the system.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Thank you, hon Minister. What the hon Ellis was saying is: “Why are you answering questions so well?” He is so impressed with you. [Interjections.] Oh, did he qualify it? Money owed by municipalities to water boards and impact of recent tariffs on capital expansion plans of boards

1. Mr G R Morgan (DA) asked the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs:

   (1) (a) How much money is owed by municipalities to water boards as at the latest specified date for which information is available and (b) what efforts are being made by her department to assist the boards in obtaining payment from the municipalities;

   2) whether the most recent tariffs she approved for individual water boards will impact on the capital expansion plans of any board; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant detail

   NO1116E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, with regard to the first part of the question, the money owed by municipalities to water boards as at 31 July 2009 is as follows: the current debt is R630 290 676 million and the arrears are R525 632 866 million. This means that the outstanding balance is R1 155 923 542 billion.

Secondly, the department facilitates meetings between water boards and the National Treasury. The latter has the mandate to mediate between water boards and relevant municipalities for payment in terms of section 44 of the Municipal Finance Management Act of 2003.

The department, with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the National Treasury and Salga, formed a task team last year, 2008, which visited all regions to engage water boards and municipalities on bulk water agreements and non-payment issues. The outcome varied from region to region. In some regions, water boards and municipalities were talking to each other for the first time, which resulted in more regular payments to water boards.

There were also three disputes. The first was between the Umgeni Water and Msunduzi Municipality. One of the recommendations made on this dispute was that Umgeni must pay back the profit that was generated from the management of Darvill works.

The second dispute was between Bloem Waters and Ukhahlamba District Municipality. It was also based on non-payment of invoices for operation and maintenance services, including outstanding project claims.

The last dispute was between Tshwane Municipality and Moretele Municipality. The dispute involved R38 million which was owed by Moretele Municipality to Tshwane Municipality. Tshwane Municipality ultimately agreed to cancel all the interest charged from the total debt, and Moretele Municipality committed to pay R8 million per month to settle the debt.

No impact is envisaged on the capital expansion plans of any water board. Capital projects are financed by a combination of loan funding and internal cash resources, which are accumulated over the years due to operating surpluses and in most cases from underexpenditure on capital projects.

At the end of June 2008, water boards had accumulated approximately R1,9 billion in their cash reserves. In the light of the strong balance sheets, the tariff proposed by the former Minister had no real negative impact on water boards’ ability to spend and borrow for capital development.

Mr G R MORGAN: Deputy Minister, certainly over a billion rand owed to water boards is an extraordinary high amount of money. Water boards find themselves in a difficult situation because on the one hand many municipalities struggle to pay and on the other hand, as you’ve said, the Minister sets the tariffs.

You said today that you didn’t expect the tariffs to have any particular impact on capital expansion and infrastructure maintenance. But if you look at particular water boards, that situation may be very different. For instance, Namaqua has a negative net profit margin of 176% and Botshelo Water has a debt ratio of 217%.

What was interesting is that in the portfolio committee meetings, many boards said that the tariffs would not allow them to do what they wanted with the capital expansion plan. Is there an alternative funding stream that can be investigated for water boards? I know that the aim is to try and make them stand-alone institutions. But is there a possibility that a part of the municipal income grant can be ring-fenced and used to build infrastructure as well?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon member, could you please repeat your last words? I couldn’t hear because the Chairperson was talking to you.

Mr G R MORGAN: Is there a possibility that a portion of the municipal income grant, at least in certain water boards, can get ring-fenced so that water boards can also build infrastructure that would otherwise have been built by municipalities?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: I am sure we can investigate that and see if it is possible. We will see what to do. If it is possible, we will do it. There are many ways in which we can try to resolve the problem because it is not one person’s problem. If it works, we’ll implement it.

Mr J J SKOSANA: Deputy Minister, the setting of water tariffs also had to factor in the cost to the end user. Was the fact that poverty levels in South Africa are quite high taken into account when the tariffs were set?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Yes, we do know that there are people who can’t afford. That is why our indigent people get certain liters of water free of charge. But it is quite difficult because some of the things have to be paid for and infrastructure has to be built. We will investigate ways to assist those who can’t afford.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Minister, my question is not linked to the water boards but to the municipalities on the monies they owe them. What is the situation regarding the proposed introduction of household meters in high density areas? We know there was some controversy around these meters which automatically operate after free water is used up, as in a situation where there are large numbers of people in a household - sometimes as many as 21. Their problems are not addressed by this situation. I am wondering if you are prepared to comment on that.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: I cannot comment on that at the moment because we still have to investigate. I need more information.

Mr L W GREYLING: Deputy Minister, I find the fact that we have developed debts of a billion rand from municipalities owing to water boards a completely unsustainable situation. It is in fact a contravention of the Municipal Finance Management Act, which states that they should be paying those debts within 30 days. In your investigations, have you found out the reasons why particular municipalities have been unable to pay water boards, and have you put in place mechanisms to ensure that those water boards will be paid timeously in the future?

The second question on tariffs relates to comments that have already been made. We’ve heard at public hearings that many water boards can’t expand their capital plans as they want to because the tariffs are set too low. We obviously have to put in greater water extensions in South Africa to make sure that we get water to more people, and we cannot do that under the current finance system. Are there any plans to change this so that we can expand water to everyone that needs it in South Africa? Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon member, the reason why some of these municipalities have these debts is because of certain institutions within those municipalities. For example, we have government institutions, hospitals and schools which might not be paying. Therefore, municipalities get into debt. That is what contributes to municipalities’ debts.

At times this happens because of the way municipalities manage their bills. This contributes to debts. The problem is a collection of many things like not managing invoices well, etc.

Hon member, what was your second question?

Mr L W GREYLING: It is about funding mechanisms for the capital expansion plans that are solely needed in the water sector, and the fact that the tariffs are set too low for those plans to go ahead. Are we looking at any other funding mechanisms to be able to do that? Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: We would like to have more funding, but it is not possible at the moment. However, we will explore other ways of assisting.

I am sure you know that there is a huge problem with regard to getting water to people, because rivers are far from them. It becomes very expensive to get water to the people. It is worse now with drought and climate change. That is why we are exploring water harvesting and other means of getting water. We have explored boreholes, but the water is so salty and it cannot be used. So, we are still exploring. Let us all join hands and come up with bright ideas. Thank you.

     Maths and literacy skills of first-year university students 52.   Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Minister  of  Higher  Education  and
  Training:

  (a) What is the percentage of first-year university students who are
  well-equipped with maths and literacy skills and (b) how does that
  percentage compare with those of other countries or international
  trends?                                                  NO1136E

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, maybe this question is written in the language of the Old Testament because I don’t know why it has been asked to me. I think it should have been asked to my colleague in Basic Education. But I suppose you all have to report to your constituencies that you’ve asked all the Ministers questions.

In 2008, the total number of students who passed with 50% or more, which is the minimum requirement for eligibility for degree studies in higher education and have done maths and/or maths literacy in the National Senior Certificate since its introduction in 2008, was 62 388 for maths and 100 186 for maths literacy.

All first-year university students would have passed either Maths or Maths Literacy at a level in the National Senior Certificate in terms of the aggregates that would have allowed them to enter university. Nevertheless, this does not mean that we would not like to see the deepening of quality in numeracy from the early years of schooling, as my colleague the Minister of Basic Education indicated earlier. Poor performance in numeracy is a challenge that is being addressed across the education system.

It must be noted that because of our constitutional commitment to education as a basic right, South Africa has high levels of enrolment in secondary education in contrast to many countries for which access to secondary education is a privilege reserved for a successful minority. Thus, despite some problems with retention in secondary schools, the levels of completion from secondary schools in South Africa are high relative to other economically comparative countries. Thank you.

Ms C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, I apologise for Rev Meshoe, who was unable to be here today. What assistance is available at present in universities for students needing additional assistance regarding Maths and literacy skills to give them that extra bit of help as they begin their new varsity career? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, in the current financial year, for instance, the department has allocated R146 million geared towards various forms of academic support to students in different fields, which would also include strengthening and supporting students to enable them to perform better at university.

Mr G S RADEBE: Ndvuna Ndzimande, ngitsandza kwati kwekutsi … [Minister Nzimande, I would like to know …]

… how you ensure and promote these certain subjects in the curriculum. What is important is that we can strengthen this, but what about promoting these subjects. One can see that most of the students are reluctant to study Maths and Science. What are the plans that you have to promote these subjects in the curriculum?

UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME NOKUQEQESHA: Kunemali evele ikhona, lungu elihloniphekile enikezwa nguhulumeni lo wethu ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi abafundi ikakhulukazi abaqhamuka ezindaweni ezihluphekayo, nabafundi abamnyama bayalekelelwa ukuthi bangene kulemikhakha yezifundo lezi zezibalo nokuthi bakwazi futhi ukuthi bathole usizo.

Sizoyiqinisa lento njengoba-ke imfundo uMongameli eyibeke njengenye yezinto eziphambili kulelizwe lethu. Sizoziqinisa izindlela zokuthi abafundi ikakhululkazi abamnyama bakwazi ukuthi bangene. Kodwa bangagcini ngokungena nje kulezifundo kodwa futhi bakwazi ukuphumelela ukuze bangachithi isikhathi esiningi emaNyuvesi kodwa sizame ukubalekelela ukuthi baqede ngesikhathi .Ngithemba ukuthi kuyakuphendula lokho engikushoyo. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: There are funds that are already available, hon member, which are issued by this government of ours to ensure that learners who come from impoverished areas, especially black learners, are assisted in taking subjects like maths and science, and that they receive assistance.

We are going to intensify this effort, as the President has placed education as one of the top priorities in this country. And we will also intensify the ways in which black learners will be able to do these subjects. They must not only take these subjects, but also be able to pass them so that they won’t spend too much time at the universities and we must also assist them to finish on time. I hope what I said answers your question. Thank you.]

Dr W G JAMES: Chair, I just want to ask the hon Minister, having been in office for three months and thinking about these issues for 10 years between his previous time in Parliament and now, what he’s doing to accelerate teacher training in Maths and Science, because his figures indicate the extraordinary urgency of maximising the quality of our Mathematics and Science teachers. Therefore, I would appreciate it if he would share with us what his plans are and how they are proceeding.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon James, it feels like three years already! The matter of teacher education and training has been a subject of a recent teacher education summit where agreements were reached about how to accelerate teacher education, including in these specialised subjects as well as other subjects such as African languages, if we are going to succeed in terms of teaching in the foundation phase.

This area is one of the areas about which we are currently in discussion with the Minister of Basic Education because it straddles both departments in terms of what would be the best way of responding to the need, about which you are right, for teacher training and education in these particular areas.

One of the things we are looking at is something the Minister of Basic Education has mentioned in answering another question, namely how, for instance, FETs could be used for certain things. But we are also looking at the possibility of working towards teacher training institutes – that’s another option – and perhaps also how universities themselves need to increase and multiply their delivery sites for teacher education.

So, this is one matter that is a priority for both the Department of Higher Education and Training and the Department of Basic Education. Once we have come up with concrete proposals we’ll make sure that we come and share them with members so that we can get feedback.

Ms N Y VUKUZA-LINDA: Minister, speaking of skills and the use of Maths and Science, it is obvious that education must be relevant. In order for education to be relevant there must be targeted intervention. Is there a strategic conversation or a concerted effort between the Minister and the private sector to produce specific skills required? For example, does the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University produce skills necessary and needed by Volkswagen South Africa in Uitenhage, or could there be a brewing institute that would produce skills needed by SAB-Miller, to mention only two of many relevant examples? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, I think the question is a bit remote from the original question. [Laughter.]

UwuVukuza ngempela isibongo ngoba uvukuza umbuzo ongawubuzanga. [Uhleko.] [Your surname is really Vukuza because you scrape for a question which you never asked. [Laughter.]]

All I want to say is that I had two meetings already with Business Unity of South Africa. You would be surprised, Mr Ellis, to hear that I have met twice with real big business, not small fry. [Laughter.]

One of the things we agreed we have to do – I have raised this very sharply with business – is that we need a bigger contribution from them in terms of, amongst other things, places for learnerships; the training of the placement for apprentices. I got a very positive reply that they are actually more than willing to work with my department to build on the work that they’ve been doing in the past, which is not new, and to accelerate it, given the urgency of a skills revolution in this country.

Angeke ngazi-ke ntombi lapho usho khona ngalena ukuthi kwenzakalani. Mhlawumbe uyongithatha ngenye imini sihambe, siyobona lapho ukuthi kwenziwani laphaya eMpumalanga Koloni. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[I would not be in a position, madam, to know what is happening on the other side that you are referring to. Maybe you will go with me one day to see what is happening in the Eastern Cape. Thank you.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, if I may simply say to the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training that, yes, I was surprised that he’d had certain meetings. But at the same time I want to say that everything he does surprises me. [Laughter.]

Terms of reference for review committee on National Student Financial Aid Scheme and Higher Education South Africa and details on students receiving support

1. Mr M L Fransman (ANC) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training: (1) (a) What were the terms of reference for the Review Committee on the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) and Higher Education South Africa (HESA) in July 2009, (b) when is the report due, (c) at what stage will they engage the parliamentary committee, (d) what number of students received support from the NSFAS during the period 1 April 2007 up to the latest specified date for which information is available and (e) what number of these students have dropped out in these years;

 (2)    whether he has found that students from disadvantaged
       communities are sufficiently supported; if not, what is the
       position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details of
       his findings?                                      NO1098E

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, this is a question about the Terms of Reference of the Review Committee on the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. The Minister of Higher Education and Training established a ministerial committee for the review of NSFAS on 10 June 2009 to review the efficacy of the scheme. The full terms of reference are contained in Government Gazette No 32317. The overall purpose of the review is to assess the strength and shortcomings of the current scheme and advise on the short- medium- and long-term needs for student financial aid and make recommendations in this regard.

Some of the scope that we expect the review to cover would include conducting a needs analysis of students who will require financial aid in the short, medium and long terms, taking into account the government’s commitment to providing free undergraduate education to students from poor families who would otherwise not be able to pursue further or higher education.

We’ve asked this committee to also assess the nature and extent of former and current students blacklisted by NSFAS and universities and recommend appropriate action to be taken to deal with the problem. The report is due within six months from the day that the committee commences its work at the end of June 2009, and it is envisaged that the report will be submitted to the Minister early in December 2009.

The committee is currently engaging with different stakeholders. As this is a preliminary investigative phase, a meeting with the portfolio committee will be scheduled at a later date. The number of students that were supported in 2006 was 107 586; in 2007 it was 113 616; and in 2008 it was approximately 120 000 as the data for this year is being finalised.

The information on the number of students that have graduated or dropped out in each of these years is not readily available as tracer studies are still to be completed. The amount that has been allocated by the department to NSFAS has grown from R500 million in 2002, to R2,71 billion in 2011-12, including the Fundza Lushaka teacher bursaries and FET college bursaries.

The number of students that have been assisted in higher education institutions since 2002 has grown from 86 147 to approximately 120 000 in 2008. The demand on the scheme, however, continues to exceed amounts allocated, and this, in part, was the reason for the review. Thank you.

Mr M L FRANSMAN: Hon Chairperson, as a member and chairperson of the committee, I want to welcome the Minister ’s intervention. Not so long ago students in fact raised this matter, both with the portfolio committee and also during the elections period. It’s quite clear, Minister, that the review process is starting to address the issue of blacklisting and top- slicing and to deal with the question of institutional problems that we have seen.

I note from your response that there’s not enough information on actual tracking of both graduates and dropouts. In the country we roughly have a 40% dropout rate. What process will the Minister embark upon to ensure that we don’t just get a survey on the number of dropouts, but that we get qualitative information on individual students?

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chair, I thank hon Fransman for the question. As a matter of fact, we do have this information for previous periods. What we are saying here is that because we have not actually finished this process of tracking and tracing, we are unable to provide this information now. However, it is information that should be available at an appropriate time. This is because we do, as a department, follow closely what happens to students at universities in general and especially those that are supported by NSFAS. The system itself is able to tell us how those students are doing and about the issue of dropouts, etc.

Dr W G JAMES: Chair, is there any compelling reason why the hon Minister is not acting with a sense of urgency on this question and, after consultation with the main stakeholders, does not push the current threshold of R120 000 in annual income of parents to 160 000 per year so that more working class families can benefit from student financial aid? Why are we bearing witness to the slow march of bureaucracy here? [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Before you get excited about the slow march of bureaucracy, … [Interjections.] Hon Ellis, I’m not allowed to point a finger at you in the House. It’s not about that. In fact, if you look at it, hon James, I think we have to balance between speed and thoroughness. We don’t want to rush this process only to find that we missed a lot of dimensions.

Again, if you look at the terms of reference of the review committee, each one of them is quite involved. We want as much information as possible. But, if you look at the information we want over a period of six months, it is not too long a period. So, we have to strike a balance between the two. We, ourselves, are aware of the urgency with which we have to address these matters.

Whether we raise the limit of income of parents of students who qualify, that will come with the review itself.

Just to end off, there are quite a number of other issues that will need to be addressed. For instance, do you provide as many students as possible with part loans or part bursaries, or do you provide fewer students with complete loans or bursaries so that you don’t have a problem where some students have accommodation and tuition, but don’t have money for food?

So, I think that given the scale of the task and the urgency, six months balances both. I think we are moving at the necessary speed, but without undue haste in a manner that would compromise what we want to achieve. [Applause.]

Mr M H HOOSEN: Hon Minister, we must recognise that NSFAS has assisted thousands of students nationally, and you quoted the figures, which are fairly impressive. We recognise that many of these students were denied access to education in the past, and we must commend the scheme for what it’s been able to achieve.

Minister, there still remains the problem of access to NSFAS. Part of the problem is that there is this two-week window period by which students must apply for it since the funds are administered by universities. So, the whole issue of access is still not dealt with as there are still hundreds of students who are battling to gain access to the system. Will the Minister agree that perhaps the review will deal with the issue of access? One of the possible solutions is to allow students to apply directly to NSFAS rather than via universities. Is that one possible solution or are there any other solutions that the Minister is considering to deal with the whole issue of strengthening access to NSFAS? Thank you, Chairperson.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, I just want to say to the hon member that we are aware of these problems. We expect the review to look at the efficiency and efficacy of the scheme itself, such that it is able to operate optimally without endangering the educational opportunities of poor students. So, I don’t really want to anticipate what the recommendations will be - whether they will be that you apply centrally or not. However, the advantage of doing it through institutions is that it makes it quicker rather than creating an overarching, centralised bureaucracy that is disconnected from what the universities offer and from what the students might want in particular institutions.

As an aside, by the way, the one thing we want to speed up to be national – I nearly said “to nationalise”, and that is the correct word [Laughter.] - is the applications process so that students do not have to pay R7 000 applying to many institutions, but apply in one place as is happening in the province of KwaZulu-Natal at this point in time. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Minister, I’m a bit reluctant to ask this question because you’ve just said that you are aware of all the problems that are there.

Kodwa-ke bengicela ukubuza ukuthi njengoba uNgqongqoshe esesinikezile izinombolo zalabo abasizwe yile mali. Unazo yini uNgqongqoshe izinombolo zalabo abehlulekile ukusizwa yile mali abafakile izicelo abakhona kuzo lezi zikhungo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[I would like to know from the Minister, since she has given us the number of students who were assisted by this money, whether he knows how many students who applied but were not assisted are currently at these institutions.]

I’m talking here about those students whose applications have not been accepted, in spite of passing the means test of R120 000. Does the Minister know the number of such students? If he does, what sort of intervention or help can he give to such students? In fact, I’ve got a number of such students.

UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME NOKUQEQESHA: Baba Mpontshane, bengingacelwanga ngingakezi la lezi nombolo, kodwa-ke sinazo lezi zinombolo emgodleni, zikhona emgodleni. [Uhleko.] Uma ungaphinde uke uwubuze lobuzo siyobuya nje sesikubuyela nempendulo yonke yakho ukuthi wobani abafundi futhi bangakanani ababecele ukusizwa kodwa abangathathwa. Kodwa bengingazi ukuthi uzongibuza lombuzo sewungilalele endleleni impela nje usuwenza njengephoyisa lomgwaqo elingilalela endleni. [Uhleko.] Uma uphinda uwubuza nje siyokubuyela nempendulo, ungahlupheki baba. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Mpontshane, I was not asked to have those statistics at hand, but we do have them in our data base. [Laughter.] If you can ask that question again, we will come back with the answers to all your questions as to how many students applied for assistance but whose applications were not accepted. Unfortunately, I did not anticipate that you were going to ask me this question; you have caught me off guard. [Laughter.] Do not worry, if you ask it again we will give you the answer. Thank you.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, while we’re waiting for the results of the thorough review, do we have urgent plans in place to have NSFAS’s presence at the schools so that students are able to understand …? We know that access is a problem and, obviously, it is a problem right now. For a while we have been discussing the possibility of an actual presence in the schools so that students have access right there and then to what they need to know. Thanks.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Chairperson, in fact, it is a very important issue that the hon member is raising. It has been raised with me that in many schools, especially in rural areas, they don’t even know about the existence of NSFAS. This is a matter that is being discussed in the Council of Education Ministers at the moment, where it has also been raised.

We will have to look at ways and means of making sure that NSFAS is actually known in all schools so that students will be able to apply. Thank you.

            Costing of proposed National Health Insurance

1. Mr M Waters (DA) asked the Minister of Health:

   Whether the proposed National Health Insurance (NHI) has been costed; if not, why not; if so, (a) by whom, (b) when was this costing released and (c) what are the estimated costs involved?

           NO1119E
   

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION (for the MINISTER OF HEALTH): Chairperson, the hon Ellis must be careful. I am the Acting Minister of Health this week. By the time the Minister comes back I will have implemented the National Health Insurance, completely! [Laughter.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I can only but express my deep concern on behalf of the nation. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION (on behalf of the Minister of Health): Chairperson, the Department of Health will publish the draft national health insurance policy framework for public comment.

The department has already answered this question in the form of a written response. It said that after public engagement, the framework document will be finalised. Thereafter, the costing of the final framework document will be done. Although there are initiatives that are already underway regarding costing, we do not believe it is appropriate to embark on a massive costing exercise. This is because the issue of costing in itself will have to be part of the consultative process. The principle is that we want an affordable system. So, part of the consultation also involves determining what is affordable. Thank you, Chair.

Mr M WATERS: Chair, I would like to thank the Minister of Health for notifying me that he would not be here today. If the Minister of Higher Education could convey my gratitude to him, I would appreciate it.

The National Health Institute, NHI, is going to fundamentally change health care in South Africa. As such, we would have thought that some form of costing model would have been conducted already to give the public and the government an idea of what this is going to cost.

While we understand that there will be a public participation process, despite the Minister’s threats of going to war over anyone who may oppose the NHI, the DA will be participating in that process.

We do concur with what the Minister of Higher Education said, that certain aspects of the NHI may change during this process. But one aspect that will not change and will remain fixed is that of the basic package of universal care within NHI. My question to the hon Minister is: If no costing of the basic package of universal care has been conducted, how does the government know that the NHI is affordable and sustainable? Thank you very much.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION (on behalf of the Minister of Health): Chairperson, if hon Waters wants me to pass on his message to the general- secretary of the SACP about the issue of war on the NHI, I will be happy to do that. I am here as the Minister of Health. [Laughter.]

I think that the DA needs to play by the rules. What you are trying to do, in essence, is to say that we can’t commit to a national health insurance scheme unless we have costed it. But how does one do a full-blown costing without having had consultations with South Africa? That would be a waste of energy and time.

Through the initial work that the department has done, we are convinced that a national health insurance system is important. We have done and are busy doing comparative studies, not least with the United States of America, by the way, and other countries like Ghana that have actually implemented a national health insurance system. We are convinced that given where we are, we will actually be able to afford it.

Still on the issue of affordability, even the range of services in the basket that will be covered by the NHI are some of the things we still have to consult about.

Therefore, it is very unfair of the DA to ask for something like this when we know that they are working with some private providers to do some kind of costing so that they can compare figures. You can bring your own costing as well. We will be happy to look at your costing when we begin to discuss it openly. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.].

Mnu G S RADEBE: Sihlalo, ngitsandza kubuta Indvuna kutsi kutawutsatsa sikhatsi lesingakanani ngoba phela bantfu bayahlupheka. Asikwati kulindza kutsi Luhlelo Lwemshwalense Wetemphilo WLwavelonkhe lume lungasebenti, kumele lusebente. Lesifuna kukwati kutsi lutawucala nini kusebenta, ngoba sive sakitsi siyafa, yenabakitsi? (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

[Mr G S RADEBE: Chairperson, I would like to ask the Minister as to how long it is going to take, because people are suffering. We cannot wait and let the National Health Insurance programme stop functioning, it must be implemented. What we would like to know is, when will it be implemented because our nation is dying, good people?]

UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME KANYE NOKUQEQESHA: (omele UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMPILO): Ngiyavuma Baba, lunga elihloniphekile. Siyijahe kakhulu nathi lento. Kusenomsebenzi-ke umnyango osawenza ukuthi uma uqeda ukuphela lowo msebenzi sesikwazi-ke ukuthi siye kubantu siyothi-ke nakhu esifuna ukukwenza. Siyobe sesikuletha ngokushesha. Ngicabanga ukuthi kungekudala uNgqongqoshe uzomemezela ukuthi cishe iyobe isilunge nini lento, kodwa nje siyazama ukuthi siphuthumise impela ngoba abantu bakithi cha bayimele lento ngisho nalabo impela i-DA ethi iyabakhulumela nabo basenkingeni ngoba bancinzwa ama Medical Aid manje bayayidinga le NHI, bayijahile. Asazi-ke ukuthi laba abangaphesheya bakhulumela obani noma bakhulumela laba abadla izambane lika pondo. Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER FOR HIGHER EDUCATION: (on behalf of the Minister of Health): I concur with you, hon member. We also want to start this programme as soon as possible. There is something that the department is working on, and once that is complete we will then tell the people what we are going to do. I think the Minister will announce shortly when this might take place, but we are trying to speed up the process because our people are eagerly awaiting it. Even those that the DA claims to be representing are also in trouble because they are feeling the pinch with regard to medical aid, they also need the NHI. We are not sure who the ones over there are representing; we wonder if they are representing the elite. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Dr S M PILLAY: Hon Minister, I know that there is nothing much done about costing and things like that. But we would like to know whether it is true that the NHI is not only for the poor, but it is also for a large majority of middle class people. Many of these middle class people are employed, but they are uninsured at the present moment due to the unaffordability of medical aids. These medical aids are experiencing a crisis in cost, which sees costs escalating beyond affordability. This has the effect of excluding the majority of the people from a health system.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION (on behalf of the Minister of Health): Chair, that is the issue to which I referred earlier. The need for a national health insurance system for the country is not only for the poor. It is for the working and the middle classes, especially because our medical aid schemes are actually heading for a crisis. People on medical aid schemes are paying more but are progressively receiving less for their money. That is why we are quite convinced that the overwhelming majority of our people want this national health insurance system as soon as yesterday. Those who are opposed to it without even having engaged with it to see what we are coming up with, may actually only be speaking for a very tiny minority who, I suspect, do not have the NHI in their own interest. Thank you, Chair.

Mr M H HOOSEN: Chairperson, I am covered by the answer already given by the Minister. Thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, as you have mentioned the private health sector, how much interaction is taking place between the Minister and the private health sector with regard to the creation of a national health insurance? Do we have particular successful models that we are considering, and which countries are we considering to provide these examples? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION (on behalf of the Minister of Health): Chairperson, the Minister, as the Minister of Health, inevitably interacts with the private sector. But, on this matter, the department is working towards producing a document through which we intend engaging all stakeholders, including not only the private sector, but the poor as well. One of the countries with the best national health insurance system in the world is the People’s Socialist Republic of Cuba. [Applause.]

As a matter of fact, we have many examples to look at. As I said, Ghana, poor as it is, has a lot we can learn from in terms of what it has done. I am talking about a country on our continent that we can actually look to.

Incidentally, it is very strange that even in the United States of America some of the people who are opposing President Obama’s national health insurance are not talking a different language from the people who are opposing the same thing here at home. So, what more do you want? The most capitalist of countries wants to introduce a national health insurance scheme. We also want to learn from what the United States is doing and what it wants to do. Thank you. [Applause.]

      Upward modification of grade 12 results in past 15 years

1. Mr D A Kganare (Cope) asked the Minister of Basic Education: Whether the grade 12 results have been modified upwards in the past 15 years; if so, (a) how was this done and (b) who gave the instruction for it to be done? NO1144E

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, this question relates to the moving up of matric results. There has not been any modification of results in the past 15 years. But based on current legislation and in keeping with international practice, marks of specific subjects get adjusted during a standardisation process which is conducted by an independent quality assurance council - Umalusi.

Research shows that despite all the best initiatives taken by the examination body to ensure that exams conducted in a specific year are of the appropriate standard is never possible to guarantee that an examination in a particular year is of the same standard as an exam in the previous year. Therefore, to ensure that a candidate writing exams is not subjected to a more difficult or much easier exam, marks obtained in a current examination are compared to the performance of candidates in the previous year. If marks of a cohort are comparable to the previous year, the marks are accepted. But if the marks are too high or too low, there’s a normal standardised adjustment process that gets implemented. So, nothing unique is done; we are told that this is international practice.

Mnu L RAMATLAKANE: Sihlalo, ndiyabulela xa uMphathiswa eyivuma into yokuba kubekho ukulungiswa kweziphumo ukuya phezulu, njengokuba ikomiti yemicimbi yesebe ibikuxelelwe oko liGosa eliyiNtloko lesiGqeba sikaMalusi. Kodwa ke, owona mbuzo ndifuna ukuwulandelisa ngowokuba, ukuba kunjalo, zilungiswe kangakanani? Ndifuna ukwazi ukuba zilungiswe ngeepesenti ezingaphi ukuya phezulu. Kutheni kungakhange kubekho lizwi elilucacisayo olu lungiso kwiminyaka egqithileyo? Uluntu loMzantsi Afrika aluzange lukhe luxelelwe ukuba kukho into elolu hlobo.

Okokugqibela, ndiyakuva Mphathiswa, ukuba uthi le nto ayibacaphazeli abantwana abafunda kwiidyunivesithi, kodwa akucacanga ukuba le nto iza kuba nefuthe elingakanani na kubantwana abangena kwiidyunivesithi.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEMFUNDO ESISISEKO: Sihlalo, le nto ixhomekeke ekubeni amanqaku aloo nyaka anjani xa ethelekiswa nawonyaka ogqithileyo. Ngoko, andizi kukwazi ukuthi kwiminyaka eli-15 ziipesenti ezili-10 okanye ezi-5 alungelelaniswe ngazo; kuxhomekeke ekubeni amanqaku ezibalo kuloo nyaka kumelwe ukuba alungiswe njani na xa ethelekiswa naweminyaka egqithileyo. Ngoko, akukwazeki ukuchaza ukuba ziipesenti ezi-10 okanye ezi-2, kuba kungenzeka ukuba angonyuswa.

Mna ndiva kusithiwa yinto eyenzeka kwihlabathi liphela asiyonto intsha; asiyonto ongema phezu kwentaba uyikhwaze, yinto nje eyenziwa ngokwendlela ekusetyenzwa ngayo. Ngoko ke, andiqondi ukuba bekukho imfuneko yokuba sihambe sixelela abantu ukuba ngoku siyalungisa. Nembiza uyayijonga ubone ukuba ayikavuthwa, uyigalele amanzi de ilunge. Isebenza ngolo hlobo ke nale into akusetyenzwa ngeepesenti, kungenjalo singangayenzi ngendlela. Singafaka iipesenti ezili-10 ukonyusa okanye ukohlisa amanqaku. Ihamba ngolo hlobo ke le nto. Asinto ekufuneka umane uyikhwaza; yinto ehamba kakuhle ngokwesiko. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Chairperson, I am happy that the Minister agrees that marks have been adjusted as the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education was informed by the CEO of Malusi. But the question I really want to ask is, if that is the case, at what rate? I would like to know the percentage at which the marks were inflated. Why was this not mentioned in the previous years? Were South Africans ever told about something of this nature?

Lastly Minister, I hear you mention that this adjustment does not affect university students, but it is not clear as to how this will affect first year university students.

THE MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, this is determined by comparing the year’s marks to those of the previous year. Therefore, I will not know if the marks were adjusted by 10 or 5 percent in the past 15 years; it depends on how much Mathematics marks of that particular year should be adjusted as compared to the previous years. Therefore, we cannot say it is 10 or 2 percent because they might not be adjusted.

And I understand this to be an international practice and not something new; it is not a big deal. This is something that is done according to standards. Therefore, I don’t think that there is a need to tell people that we are making adjustments now.

Even when you are cooking you keep on checking and if the dish is not yet ready you add the required ingredients until it is done. That is how the question of results also works and not with percentages otherwise we will not do this the right way. We can add 10 percent to increase or to decrease the marks. That is how it is done. It is not something to make a fuss about; it is something that goes according to standards. [Applause.]]

Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS: Chairperson, all the research, including the benchmark tests at certain universities, indicates that there is no correlation between the ability of the majority of learners and their matric results. In the light of this, will you please clarify whether marks for the 2008 Mathematics matric paper were artificially raised, or was the exam paper set at too low a standard?

The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, the member has just asked this question here. I need to come with an honest answer with regard to what happened to the Maths results. This is so that if you want us to say what the adjustments were last year around a specific subject, we are able to do so.

The fact that university results don’t compare or university performance is not in line with the performance that we are dealing with is another matter all together. If it’s based on the Ellis report, let’s talk about the Ellis report and explain what our take on it is as a department. So, to get an honest answer around Maths results, let me not suck the answer out of my thumb. Let me undertake to bring you the correct answer. We will check if, indeed, last year’s Maths results were adjusted or not. I don’t have that information with me right now, otherwise I will not tell you the truth.

Ms N GINA: Minister, could you provide us with further details of progress already being registered on the process of standardising and improving our school examinations and on correcting the inconsistencies of the apartheid regime, where different provincial examination boards are now being replaced by a progressive and uniform structure that we have today?

LETONA LA THUTO YA MOTHEO: Selemong se sa tswa feta, Mme, ho ne ho ngolwa hlahlobo ya ho qala moo ho neng ho hlahlojwa hona ka bophara tlasa Letona la maoba. Ho ya pele rona re tla nne re hlahlobe bana ka tlase ho hlahlobo e le nngwe. Ke re, Mme o bua nnete ha a re ho tloha selemong se fetileng mafapha a fapaneng a neng a hlahloba bana a ile a fediswa tlasa Letona la maoba Mme Pandor.

Ho ile ha ba le hlahlobo e ntjha, e tswetseng pele, e hlahlobang bana ka ho tshwana. Haeba ho thwe ngwana o fumane letshwao la A a le Ciskei, o tsebe hore e tshwana le ya Limpopo le dibaka tse ding. Jwale e kentswe tshebetsong mme re ntse re tswela pele ho e ntlafatsa. Ho ya pele re shebile hape hore ho be le Lekgotla la Dihlahlobo le ikemetseng hore e se be rona ba rutang bana, re ba fe thupello mme re be re kgutle hape re ba hlahlobe.

Dilemong tse pedi kapa tse tharo tse tlang ho tla ba le lekgotla le ikemetseng le sa laolweng ke lefapha. E tla ba lona le hlahlobang bana. Ha jwale re ntse re tswela pele ka mosebetsi o motle. Ke a leboha nnake. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Last year, hon member, the first examination was written and it was generally examined under the previous Minister. Going forward, we shall continue to examine the children under one examination. The hon member is correct when she says that from last year different departments that were examining the children were abolished under the previous Minister, Mrs Pandor.

There is a new continuous assessment which examines the children in the same way. If a learner is said to have obtained symbol A in Ciskei, you must know that it is the same as the one in Limpopo and elsewhere. It is now in operation and we are continuing to improve it. Going forward, we are also looking at having an independent Council of Examinations. It shouldn’t be us who teach the children, give them training and thereafter, examine them.

In the next two to three years, there will be an independent council. It will be this council that will examine the children. At present we are continuing with our good work. Thank you, my sister.]

Role of department in resolving recent dispute between Cricket south Africa and Gauteng Cricket Board

1. Mr L Suka (ANC) asked the Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 (a) What role did his department play in resolving the recent dispute
 between Cricket South Africa and the Gauteng Cricket Board and (b) what
 were the key recommendations from his department to avoid similar
 occurrences in the future?    NO1099E

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, the question relates to the dispute that had arisen between Cricket South Africa and Gauteng Cricket Board. When we discussed the dispute with Cricket South Africa, they requested us, in terms of their own constitution and indeed in terms of the National Sports and Recreation Act, to make an intervention and bring the warring factions into an agreement. When we spoke to the Gauteng Cricket Board they also repeated the same request, and indeed we offered our services to resolve the problem. We appointed Mr Brian Currin as well as Adv Mbatha Mamba, who is a very experienced advocate in these dispute resolution issues. We agreed on a five-day programme, and on the fifth day the warring parties signed an agreement on the resolution of the problem. The problem was resolved. The issues that had caused the problem were also addressed - the issue of the money flowing from the Indian Premier League, IPL; the issue of the money that would accrue from the British tour; as well as other underlying issues of transformation. We addressed all these things, and there is perfect peace between the two cricket bodies.

Mnu L SUKA: Mhlalingaphambili, okwam endifuna ukukuqonda kuMphathiswa kuncinci. Ukwenzela into yokuba lo mbodamo, obu butshovutshovu nobubhovubhovu obukhe benzeka kwiapile laseJava okanye kwiqakamba lePhondo laseGauteng bungaqhubekeli nakwamanye amaphondo, ingaba akhona amanyathelo othe wawathatha ukunqanda ukuba bungaqhubekeki kul a maphondo alandelayo ukwenzela into yokuba iqakamba okanye eli apile laseJava naseSumatra lingachaphazeleki? Okokugqibela, umntu omnyama owayesakuba ngumongameli weqakamba phaya uthe akuphuma wavukela la bhodi yaphaya. Loo nto ke igxile kumba wenguqu. Ingaba ikangakanani inguqu kwiqakamba ngoba umcimbi umayela nenguqu engaqhubekekiyo kuyo. Enkosi.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEMIDLALO NEZOLONWABO: Mhlalingaphambili, ndiqinisekile ukuba umfo kaSuka unabo ubungcwethi bokuthi iBala leQakamba iWanderers lisuka phi na. Ndiyayazi ukuthi ihlabathi lonke kule veki likhumbula iminyaka engamashumi asixhenxe eeNtlekele Zangapha kwelaMajamani phakathi kwaMajamani namaJuda. Imiphumela yezoo ntlekele ke inegalelo ekuvukeni kwale ndawo esithi liBala leQakamba iWanderers.

Yimali ke ukwakha ibala elilela hlobo, ikwayimali efunekayo ukuligcina likwimeko elaliqhele ukuba yiyo phambi ko-1994. Yingxaki yokuqala leyo, mfo kaSuka. Izikhwama eziqhele imali ziyanxakama xa zizifumana sezingaphandle kwayo. Yinto yokuqala esiqubisene nayo ke leyo ukuthi uMbutho weQakamba woMzantsi Afrika njengeminye imibutho kufanele ube nale nto sithi ngumkhomba-ndlela wokuba ube namabala okudlalela imidlalo emikhulu kangakanana yamazwe ngamazwe, nto leyo ngesiNgesi kuthiwa zii-guidelines.

Bavumile ke aboMbutho weQakamba woMzantsi Afrika bavuma nabeBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng. Oku kwakunceda ukuba wonke umntu azi ukuba imigaqo yokudlala kweli bala nakweli lizwe iyeyiphi na kuwo wonke umntu walapha, nemali efumanekayo iya nakuye wonke umntu onebala elifanelekileyo.

Kweli cala lenguqu, ngo-1992 abantu abaninzi bakukhumbula ukuba sihalalisele ukuphela kwale ngxubakaxaka ibikade ikhona ukusukela ngo-1975. Kodwa phaya eRhawutini ayikhange iphele loo nto leyo. Umgaqo-siseko wala bhodi yaseRhawutini ucacisa gca, ukusukela kulo nyaka ungaphaya kwalo uphelileyo, ukuba akufuneki baphathe bodwa abebala elithile. Kufuneka babambisane kuba abakahlangani. Akukho nguqu kwiBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng. Akukho nophuhliso ngoba iyacaca gca into yokuba bonke abantu abadlalela iBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng ayingoba phaya, bathengwa kwezinye iindawo. Sithe ke kubo mababenekomiti yabantu abathandathu, le nto kuthiwa yinguqu. Siyenzile ke loo nto baphethe yona kwaye futhi sithi 50-50 ngokwesigqibo sika 1992. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr L SUKA: Chairperson, it’s just a small matter that I need clarity on from the Minister. I would like to know what measures have been put in place in trying to deal with the strife and instability within the Gauteng Cricket Board to avoid the spread of such behaviour to other provinces and thereby affecting the development of cricket – the apple of Java and Sumatra?

Lastly when a former black president left the office, he fought with the board. This has to do with transformation. What kind of transformation has been implemented as far as cricket is concerned, because the main issue here is the lack of transformation? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, I am sure that the hon Suka knows the history of the Wanderers Stadium. I know that this week the whole world is commemorating 70 years of holocaust in Germany between the Germans and the Jews. The consequences of that holocaust has a bearing on the establishment of the place we call Wanderers Stadium.

It cost a substantial amount of money to build a stadium of this magnitude and to maintain it before 1994. That is the first problem, hon Suka. People who used to handle these amounts are not happy now that they are not involved anymore. This is the first challenge that we are confronted with, that the South African Cricket Board, like all other boards must, have guidelines on building stadiums that will host big international games.

This was agreed to by the South African Cricket Board and the Gauteng Cricket Board. It will also sensitise people about the rules and regulations of playing in this stadium and in this country, and that the available money goes to every person with the right colour.

On the question of transformation, people will remember that in 1992, we celebrated the end of this quagmire that existed since 1975. But it did not stop in Gauteng. The constitution clearly states that, from the year before last, the board should not be made up of people from only one particular race. They must work together if they have not done that yet.

There is no transformation in the Gauteng Cricket Board. There is no development there because it is crystal clear that all the players of the Gauteng Cricket Board are not from Gauteng, they were bought from other areas. We recommended a six-member committee, and that is what we call transformation. We have done that and they are working on it, and we emphasised on the 1992 resolution of 50-50.]

Mr J J MCGLUWA: Chairperson, on behalf of the ID we would like to congratulate the Minister for the role he has played in resolving the problems. But we are of the opinion that the hon Minister owes this House and the entire South African nation an answer to a million dollar question. Why did Cricket South Africa refuse to sign a contract with IPL? If there ever was a contract, why was it not made available to the Gauteng Cricket Board? We would like to have certainty on the contract signed by Cricket South Africa and IPL. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon member for raising the issue of the contract. It is actually a one dollar question. The offices of Cricket South Africa are just across the road from the office of the Gauteng Cricket Board. We asked the Gauteng Cricket Board why they don’t walk across the road and have a look at the contract if they want it. That is what they have been doing all these years. They replied by saying that they were fighting with Cricket South Africa. I told them to put the fight aside and go and get the facts. They did so. The contract was then signed.

The contract between the IPL and Cricket South Africa was signed. It is a binding contract. That is precisely why they got out of their cocoons and accepted the fact that a binding contract is a binding contract. They may not like its conditions but it is a binding contract.

Mnu B W DHLAMINI: Mhlonishwa, kuyangithokozisa ukuthi uma ningena loludaba anikhulumanga nje ngokulamula lamadoda abanga imali kodwa nikhulume nangoshintsho. Ngicabanga ukuthi kungokokuqala-ke lo mthetho esawushaya ngonyaka odlule wokunika amandla ukuthi ungenelele ezindabeni ezinjengalezi, ukuthi ubuvivinywa. Umbuzo wami uthi-ke, Ngesikhathi seningena ezindabeni zoshintsho yingoba kunesivumelwano ekomitini lomnyango kazwelonke ukuthi ijubane loshintsho lihamba kancane. Noma lo Mthetho ukunikeza amandla aneleyo ukuba ungenelele futhi ezindabeni zoshintsho njengoba uMongameli we Cricket South Africa ethe kunezigidi eziyikhulu ku akhawunti ye Gauteng Cricket kodwa abayisebenzisile kwezentuthuko ukuthi ngabe lo Mthetho uyakunika yini amandla angaphezulu ukuba ungenelele kulezo zindaba? Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr B W DHLAMINI: Hon Minister, I am glad that when you intervened in this matter to resolve the dispute between these two bodies who are quarrelling over money, you talked about transformation as well. I think this is the first time that the Act that we passed last year, which gives you the power to intervene in matters of this nature, including board reviews, has been implemented. My question is, when you touched the issue of transformation, was it because of the resolution passed by the portfolio committee which cited the slow pace in transformation or is it because this Act gives you enough power to intervene and effect transformation? The Chairperson of the South African Cricket Board said that there is one hundred million rands sitting in the Gauteng Cricket Board’s account, which was meant for development and was not used. Does this Act give you power to intervene in those matters? I thank you.]

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, the answer is no. For instance, with regard to the millions of rands in the accounts of the Gauteng Cricket Board, we cannot compel the Gauteng Cricket Board to use that money in any way. This is their private account. What we must do is to convert and transform the thinking of the Gauteng Cricket Board - its managers and administrators - to understand the meaning of transformation. Transformation is a word which many people use, but very few actually mean the same thing when they use it.

Our view is that transformation should begin from the bottom, not from the top. It should begin at schools, club administrators and at a juniors’ level. Hopefully parents who have had an experience of an untransformed environment will learn from their children. That is what the department is doing, at a slow pace. Transformation cannot be quick; it cannot be a short- circuited programme. As the Minister of Higher education said, it has to be refined in order for it to be what we want it to be; it has to take time.

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF: Chairperson, the hon Minister said that they were requested to assist in this dispute. What I want to know from him is who appointed the facilitator, Mr Currin, and the lawyers, and who paid for it?

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, the request came from the Gauteng Cricket Board and Cricket South Africa. We facilitated the appointment of both lawyers and we paid for their services. We paid for their services because we appointed them.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms D A SCHÄFER: Chairperson, I hereby give notice on behalf of the DA that I intend to move the following motion on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House debates the manner and timing of the reinstatement of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units in the SA Police Service.

Thank you. Ms A M DREYER: Mr Chairman, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

That the House -

 1) debates the high vacancy rate in Government departments and the
    effect thereof on service delivery; and


 2) comes up with solutions.

Thank you.

Mr L S NGONYAMA: Chairperson, on behalf of the Cope I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

  That the House debates the de facto breakdown of discipline in
  sections of the SA National Defence Force and the impact thereof on
  the necessary consolidation of the South African democracy.

Thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, on behalf of the ACDP I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

  That the House debates the Human Sciences Research Council’s report on
  teen pregnancy in South Africa.

Thank you.

Ms M N MAGAZI: Chair, on behalf of the ANC I give notice of a motion. The ANC would like to take this opportunity to commend the gallant steps the government has taken in recognition of prior learning. That is correctly positioned as a progressive instrument to build a more inclusive education system, and provide easy access to different levels and forms of learning to those who, under the previous system had been left out of the formal system. Some of the best performing students are those who gained access to …

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, on a point of order: The hon member is not delivering notice of a motion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon Ellis, I have already noticed that this is not really a notice of a motion.

Hon member, that was not notice of a motion.

                            TOURISM MONTH

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

 1) notes that September is Tourism Month;


 2) further notes that this is an initiative of South African Tourism
    to grow South Africa’s domestic tourism industry under the theme
    “Celebrating Diversity through Tourism”;


 3) acknowledges that domestic tourism is the backbone of a
    sustainable, robust tourism industry in South Africa and that local
    tourism is the anchor and foundation of any country’s tourism
    industry and a vital contributor to the economy; and


 4) encourages South Africans to tour their own country and to become a
    warm nation of a tourist-friendly people.

Agreed to.

CONGRATULATIONS TO MS RASHIDA MANJOO ON HER APPOINTMENT AS THE NEW UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, ITS CAUSES AND CONSEQUENCES

                         (Draft Resolution) Mr M J ELLIS: Chair, I move without notice:

That the House –

 1) notes that South African Human Rights lawyer and academic, Rashida
    Manjoo, has been appointed as the new United Nations Special
    Rapporteur on violence against women, its causes and consequences;


 2) recognises that violence against women not only violates human
    dignity, but also a number of basic human rights including the
    right to nondiscrimination, physical integrity, equality and
    freedom;


 3) believes that Ms Manjoo, who has both taught and conducted research
    at a number of universities including Webster University, Harvard
    Law School, and the University of Cape Town, and has served with
    great distinction as parliamentary commissioner of the Commission
    on Gender Equality, will continue to make an important contribution
    towards enforcing equality and equal protection doctrines;

(4) wishes Ms Manjoo all the best in her new position; and

 5) urges her to ensure that the dignity and rights of women everywhere
    are kept on the global agenda.

Agreed to.

CONGRATULATIONS TO TEAM SOUTH AFRICA ON THEIR TERRIFIC PERFORMANCE DURING THE 2009 WORLD TRANSPLANT GAMES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I move without notice:

That the House –

 1) notes the terrific performance of Team South Africa during the 2009
    World Transplant Games, Gold Coast, Australia from 22 to 30 August;


 2) further notes the superb performance of individual athletes who won
    11 gold medals, 12 silver medals, and 11 bronze medals;


 3) recognises that our 7th overall position means that our athletes
    outshined the likes of Germany, China, Canada and Japan;


 4) congratulates these exceptional athletes and everyone who supported
    them on their road to both recovery and excellence on their
    sterling performance and for doing us proud; and


 5) urges all South Africans to follow the outstanding example these
    athletes set by overcoming extraordinary circumstances with
    distinction.

Agreed to.

CONGRATULATIONS TO MEMBERS OF THE SA HOMELESS WORLD CUP TEAM ON THEIR
                  ACHIEVEMENTS ON AND OFF THE FIELD

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the House –

(1) notes that the South African Homeless World Cup Soccer team departs today for Italy to play in the Homeless Soccer World Cup;

(2) further notes that the members of the team have had to overcome tremendous adversity in their lives and that they have shown great commitment and focus to secure their place on the team;

 3) congratulates all members of the team on their achievements so far;
    and


 4) encourages them to bring back the Cup for South Africa.

Agreed to.

        CONGRATULATIONS TO RECIPIENTS OF FEMALE FARMER AWARDS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I move without notice:

That the House –

(1) notes that Ms Ntsiuoa Millicent Kobo, and her sister Sebolelo Kobo, of Lema Farms in Tweespruit have been voted National Female Farmers of the Year;

 2) further notes that the category for Best Community Vegetable Garden
    was won by Ms Meita Mentoor, Ms Maria Malan won Best Informal
    Market, and Ms Nonie Mokose took the laurels in the category for
    Best National Markets;
 3) congratulates these entrepreneurs on winning these awards;

 4) encourages them to continue their good work; and

 5) thanks them for their dedication and contribution towards our
    nation’s development.

Agreed to.

        LABOUR PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE MEETING TO ASSESS HEARINGS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr E NYEKEMBA: I move without notice:

That the House –

 1) notes that subsequent to public hearings on labour-broking held on
    25 to 26 August 2009, the Portfolio Committee on Labour held a
    meeting on 1 September 2009 to assess the hearings;


 2) further notes that the committee acknowledged and agreed that
    further public hearings should be held in provinces in order to
    reach workers and vulnerable people who could not attend on 25 and
    26 August; and
 3) also notes that the committee further discussed allegations made by
    the hon Ollis on 27 August 2009 ...

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skhosana): Order! Hon member, I am ruling you out of order as you are making a statement.

                        SAFE PUBLIC TRANSPORT

                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms A VAN WYK (ANC): Hon Chairperson, the ANC believes in a publicly-owned passenger transport system that promotes co-ordinated, safe and affordable public transport as a social service. However, the ANC deplores the attacks on the buses last night where a passenger and a member of the SA Police Service were shot. We call on our law-enforcement agencies to investigate the matter and bring those responsible before the court of law.

The ANC wishes to place on record that we will not tolerate such attacks or intimidation of state officials, drivers or passengers. We also pledge to continue to work to ensure the development of our country as underpinned by an integrated and coherent, efficient, affordable and reliable public transport system. I thank you. [Applause.] UNSATISFACTORY LEVELS OF CO-ORDINATION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN EDUCATION SYSTEM

                        (Member’s Statement)

Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS (DA): Hon Chairperson, the disjointed nature of the working relationship between the national Department of Education and the nine provincial departments of education leads to inadequate and unsatisfactory levels of co-ordination and communication in the South African education system. This state of affairs negatively affects the education administration nationally, including, amongst others, human resource management which eventually has an adverse effect on the quality of education in the classrooms. Without compromising the autonomy of the provincial departments, the role and responsibilities of the national Department of Education towards its provincial counterparts should be improved drastically.

Against this background, it is therefore of utmost importance that the Minister responsible for planning and the Minister responsible for monitoring and evaluation urgently take note of the situation and act accordingly since education is the number one priority in our country.

              FREE STATE GOVERNMENT’S SPENDING ON CARS

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF (Cope): Mr Chairman, shortly after the elections, the Free State provincial government spent millions on 11 new motorcars to ensure a safe and comfortable drive for the Premier and MECs concerned.

Last week, the same government issued a circular to all rural schools in the Free State notifying them that they will stop to operate the existing bus service for poor children to get to school. The reason given for this step is overspending of the budget. They have also indicated that they will rectify the problem by buying bicycles and to place the children in hostels closer to other schools. The latter is a far more expensive option.

This poor judgment by government, clearly not sensitive towards the poor, now puts the education of many scholars in doubt in the country whilst spending on education is one of the highest in the world. This behaviour cannot be defended, and we hope that the hon national Minister shall make the necessary enquiry and if possible assist these schools and the scholars. [Applause.]

                         FIGHT AGAINST CRIME

                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms K R MAGAU (ANC): Chairperson, South Africa is a constitutional democracy with state organs in place to fight crime. One of the ANC’s key priorities, as outlined in the 2009 election manifesto, Polokwane resolutions and the 2009 state of the nation address, is the intensification of the fight against crime. The ANC therefore views with alarm and grave concern the granting of political asylum to Mr Brandon Huntley by a fellow commonwealth state. The specious grounds on which Brandon Huntley based his claim for political asylum were that he was attacked seven times by individuals, who happen to be Africans, solely because he is white.

Crime is a social problem which all South Africans are determined to combat. It is neither racially specific nor racially motivated. Political asylum is an instrument of international law devised to afford an ordinary citizen protection from various forms of political repression and discrimination on the part of governments. The action of the Canadian government suggests that Canada regards the South African state as directly responsible for the attacks on Brandon Huntley. The ANC calls on the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation to require a comprehensive explanation from the government of Canada for its actions, whose impact deepens and stimulates racial hostility and racist attitudes. Crime, whether in South Africa or in Canada, knows no race. I thank you. [Applause.]

                 SUCCESSFUL ARREST OF RHINO POACHERS
                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr R N CEBEKHULU (IFP): Chair, members of the SAPS and conservationists in KwaZulu-Natal successfully arrested four poachers in possession of two rhino horns and firearms in a roadblock arranged soon after hearing gunshots in Hluhluwe-Umfolozi Park last week. The IFP would like to congratulate the SAPS and the conservationists for their action. I thank you. [Applause.]

                 GRANTING OF ASYLUM STATUS BY CANADA

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mnr P J GROENEWALD (VF Plus): Agb Voorsitter, Kanada het besluit om die Suid-Afrikaner, Brandon Huntley’ vlugtelingstatus toe te ken. Die ANC se reaksie daarop dat die besluit rassisties is, is ’n oorvereenvoudiging van die situasie.

Die VF Plus en almal veroordeel rassisme en stel dat dit beveg moet word. Om ’n gebeurtenis soos hierdie egter net as rasisme te brandmerk, beveg nie rassisme nie, maar is ’n ontwyking van sekere werklikhede in Suid-Afrika.

Dit is ’n werlikheid dat wit slagoffers van misdaad in Suid-Afrika, al deur polisielede, wit honde genoem is. Die VF plus het in dié verband, reeds twee klagtes by die Menseregtekommissie gelê teen die polisielede en wag nog steeds vir die uitslag.

Dit is ’n werklikheid dat die vorige Minister van Polisie, mnr Charles Nqakula, hier in die Parlement verkeerdelik gesê het dat dit altyd net wit lede is wat kla oor misdaad en vir my gesê het om op te hou kla of ek moet die land verlaat.

Dit is ’n werklikheid dat ’n ANC-LP al hier in die Parlement gesê het alles wat die witmense het, het hulle gesteel van swartmense.

Dit is ook ’n werklikheid dat die ANC se jeugleier, Julius Malema, graag rassisme aanblaas met sy deurlopende beskuldigings teen witmense.

Dit is dan geen wonder dat mense die land verlaat en dat sekere eensydige persepsies oor Suid-Afrika in ’n land soos Kanada, bestaan nie. Die toestaan van vlugtelingstatus aan Brandon Huntley moet eerder gesien word as ’n wekroep van slagoffers van misdaad in Suid-Afrika. Dit plaas verder ’n groot verantwoordelikheid op die ANC regering om die misdaad situasie en hierdie negatiewe persepsies oor Suid-Afrika in die buiteland te verander. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD (FF Plus): Hon Chairperson, Canada has decided to grant the South African, Brandon Huntley, asylum status. The ANC’s reaction to this decision was to cry racism, which is an over-simplification of this situation.

The FF Plus, and everyone else, condemns racism and states that we must combat racism. To brand such event as racist does nothing to combat racism. Rather, it is a shunning of certain realities in South Africa.

It is a fact that some members of the police referred to white victims of crime as white dogs. The FF Plus has in this regard laid two charges against the two police members with the Human Rights Commission, and we are still awaiting the outcome.

It is a fact that the previous Minister of Police Mr Charles Nqakula wrongly stated here in Parliament that only the white members are always complaining about crime. He suggested that I either stop complaining about crime, or leave the country.

It is a fact that an ANC MP had said here in Parliament that everything that white people own, they stole from black people.

It is also a fact that the youth leader of the ANC, Julius Malema, is fond of exacerbating racism with his continuous accusations against white people.

It is no wonder then that people are leaving the country and that certain one-sided perceptions about South Africa exist in countries like Canada. Rather, the granting of asylum status to Brandon Huntley should be regarded as a clarion call from victims of crime in South Africa. Furthermore, it places a huge responsibility on the ANC government to change the negative perceptions of South Africa overseas. Thank you.]

           ELECTION OF DEPUTY NATIONAL CHAIRPERSON OF SACP

                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms N P KHUNOU (ANC): Chairperson, on 23 August 2009 the General-Secretary of the SA Communist Party announced that the central committee unanimously elected the Political Bureau member, the hon Ms Joyce Moloi-Meropa, to be the Deputy National Chairperson of the SA Communist Party.

Hon Moloi-Moropa rose from the ranks of the student movement in the 1980s and has been a member of the central committee of the SACP and a member of the Political Bureau since 1999. Her election is a testimony of the commitment of the South African society to advance the course of women. The ANC congratulates her on her election and wishes her success in her new role. I thank you. [Applause.]

CONDUCT OF COMMITTEE CHAIRPERSON DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS ON LABOUR BROKING

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr A LOUW (DA): Chairperson, during recent public hearings in Parliament, the chairperson, hon Lumka Yengeni, allowed labour brokers to be referred to as slave traders and human traffickers. This created an atmosphere of intimidation and she did nothing to stop this unwarranted personal attacks. Anyone who dared to voice an opinion contrary to that of the ANC was shouted down and demonised.

This kind of behaviour is unacceptable and infringes on the rights of the public. The public is not safe in voicing their opinion. They are not safe, and they are not respected. The official who is supposed to create an environment conducive to the exchange of opinions during public hearings is doing exactly the opposite.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, on a point of order: If one is going to attack a member of this House, one could do so by way of a substantive motion. One is not entitled to do so by way of a statement. I do believe that the hon member is out of order in terms of what he seeks to do. What I am saying is that if one is going to attack the integrity or credibility of any member of this House, one does so in terms of the Rules

• by way of a substantive motion and not by way of a statement. Therefore, I believe that the statement is out of order. Thank you very much.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Is that a point of order, Mr Ellis?

Mr M J ELLIS: Yes, Mr Chairman. I want to respond to that point of order, unless you want to take it up yourself, Sir. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon member, I will rule on that point raised by the Deputy Minister later. Hon Ellis do you … [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I want to say that I do not believe that the hon member of the DA … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon Ellis, I have just ruled on the same point. Let’s wait for the ruling first. [Interjections.] Hon member, I will look at the statement that you have made and then rule on it.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, if you agree that in actual fact this is in order, will the member then be allowed to complete his statement because he hasn’t finished yet?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Okay, I will allow him to finish his statement. [Applause.]

Mr A LOUW (DA): Chairperson, the public is not safe to voice their opinion. They are not safe, and they are not respected. The official who is supposed to create an environment conducive to the exchange of opinions during public hearings is doing exactly the opposite. In a case in Matatiele Municipality … [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, with due respect, if there is a point of order on which you are still to rule, you cannot then permit that which is in contention to proceed. I would think that what you would want to do would be if you find the member of the DA in favour at that point when you have ruled you will allow them to continue. But prior to your ruling, it seems peculiar that you allow the member to proceed.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon members, I am advised that since I said I was going to rule on that point of order later, then we are not going to allow it to continue at this point until I rule on it. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, how can you rule, Sir, unless you have heard the entire statement?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! No, hon Ellis. I have ruled now, please!

Mr W P DOMAN: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just want to know whether it is in order that another DA member can take this spot because you have ruled that this statement is out of order. So, the DA doesn’t have its opportunity … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon member, you are still on the same point? Can you wait for my ruling on that point? [Interjections.]

Mr W P DOMAN: Chair, but this is entirely a different point of order. I am just asking for your permission. Can another member of the DA make another declaration now because you have ruled this one out of order? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! No, hon member. We have a list here, and we have specific parties which need to take those occasions.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, may I respond to the request? Chairperson, if a member makes a statement, he or she takes the responsibility of ensuring that it complies with the Rules of the House. If at all the member has contravened or transgressed a Rule, then he or she cannot be compensated with extra time as a result of that transgression.

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, on a point of order: Are you chairing this meeting or is the hon Surty chairing it? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! I don’t think that is a fair comment to the Chair, hon Ellis.

 LAUNCH OF ESSAY COMPETITION ON FoETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME IN KIMBERLEY

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mrs C DUDLEY (ACDP): Chairperson, last month saw the launch of a school’s essay competition on Foetal Alcohol Syndrome known as Fas in Kimberley, Northern Cape. Northern Cape has the highest prevalence of Fas in the world, particularly in the town of De Aar. This has been intrinsically linked to the demise of the town’s railway junction which caused 80% unemployment and created a depressing environment in which alcohol abuse has become common place. The ACDP commends Kimberley Hospital’s Human Genetics Unit and the Northern Cape Health department for their work in sensitising young people to the dangers of alcohol to the unborn baby.

Fas is the most common preventable form of intellectual disability in the world and it is a serious health problem right here in our own country. Experts at the genetics unit say 900ml of wine or five cans of beer a week or 30 to 40 alcoholic drinks a month, which is one a day, could cause the syndrome to the mother’s unborn child and even two or three drinks a week can cause serious damage. Specialist gynaecologists say it is advisable to stop drinking altogether once a woman discovers she is pregnant because no one can yet tell exactly how much is too much.

Horrific damage can be done, ranging from mild behavioural learning problems to physical and central nervous system abnormality, head and face malformation, growth retardation, organ malfunction and nervous system abnormalities. The most damage is likely to be done when high levels of alcohol are consumed, and habits are primarily entrenched where alcohol is most available. This is one of the reasons the ACDP is particularly concerned about the reported flood of liquor licences being granted in expectation of the 2010 World Cup.

Drunkenness is responsible for almost half of South Africa’s road crashes. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

           HOUSING RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE FREEDOM CHARTER

                        (Member’s Statement) Mrs G M BORMAN (ANC): Chairperson, the Freedom Charter has assigned responsibly to the democratic state to ensure that the right of people to live where they choose, to be decently housed and to bring up their families in comfort and security is upheld.

Last week, the government issued a stern warning to shoddy housing contractors who continue to build defective houses, telling them that they could be struck off the list and lose all contracts from the government. This was communicated by the Minister of Human Settlements, Tokyo Sexwale, during the handover of 53 houses last Friday in Mpumalanga, Thekwane North, built by the SA Women in Construction as part of the women’s build project which coincided with Women’s Month.

One of the beneficiaries, Lamita Mahlazi, 86 years, thanked the government for making her dream come true.

My dream of owning a house has been realised. I can now be able to take care of my husband who is blind in a good home instead of the shack I was living in, which has fallen apart.

This was said by Mrs Mahlazi while wiping away tears.

The ANC endorses the principle that all South Africans have a right to a secure place in which to live in peace and dignity. Thank you. [Applause.] ILLEGAL MINING IN SOUTH AFRICA

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr H C SCHMIDT (DA): Mr Chairperson, theft from South African gold mines currently funds international terrorism and human trafficking. This leads to the involvement of Interpol, International Criminal Police Organisation, due to the fact that money leaves South Africa and leads to global money laundering operations of international propositions.

On a national level, costs to curb illegal mining by mining companies have been rising. Illegal mining is on the increase in mines throughout South Africa, with miners illegally entering mining operations, thereby endangering the viability of mining companies.

Criminal syndicate leaders should be targeted and special police teams be assigned to the task of eradicating criminal mining. The fight against illegal mining should be approached with better information systems and special task teams from the police to fight syndicate bosses. It is important to note that illegal miners are doing the dangerous work in the mines while syndicate leaders receive the lion’s share.

It is in the best interest of all parties, including government, mining companies, the community and illegal miners to take drastic steps to put an end to this growing problem. Thank you.

                  DRUG SMUGGLING INTO SOUTH AFRICA

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr L RAMATLAKANE (Cope): Chairperson, drug smuggling into South Africa is a direct attack on the moral fibre of our society. The increased abuse of South African facilities to transport illegal substances, if allowed to go unchecked, could relegate our country to the status of an easy smuggling route with a serious impact on the international mobility of goods and people. Noting the recent increase in the reported discovery and seizure of drugs at a major airport and harbours in South Africa, we as Cope thank and congratulate the relevant organs of state on their efforts to fight the scourge of drug smuggling.

From a lesson learned in the recent past, Cope is calling on the Minister of Police and the Minister of Justice to, firstly, ensure that confiscated substances that would serve as evidence in forthcoming trials are properly secured; secondly, to ensure that integrated senior specialist crime investigators work with prosecutors to investigate this crime to ensure arrest; and thirdly, once the arrest has been made, the Minister should see to it that relevant legal processes and documentation are legal, professional and thorough, to ensure that perpetrators do not walk free on some technical and procedural deficiencies.

      COMMENDING OF GOVERNMENT ON RECOGNITION OF PRIOR LEARNING

                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms M N MAGAZI (ANC): Chair, the ANC would like to take this opportunity to commend the gallant steps government has taken in recognition of prior learning. This is correctly positioned as a progressive instrument to build a more inclusive education system and to provide easy access to different levels and forms of learning to those who have been left out of the formal system under the previous government.

Some of the best performing students are those who gained access through recognition of their prior learning. Part of this is attributed to a very good guidance programme that concentrated on portfolio development. In view of this, the ANC believes that it is important to have the national will to proceed with this system. Although the RPL, Recognition of Prior Learning, was a national policy, it is nonetheless an unfunded mandate presently.

Therefore, the ANC would like to put emphasis on the need for a funding model to give impetus to this instrument. We feel that it is necessary to address the gabs in the legislation. There is also a need to nurture those guiding RPL candidates as this was a carrier path that, despite its good results, rather ran the risk of not being recognised because of uncertainty in funding. I thank you. [Applause.]

             CONDEMNATION OF ATTACK ON BRT BUS IN SOWETO

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM): Hon Chairperson, the UDM condemns in the strongest possible terms the attack on a BRT bus in Soweto last night. It is of deep concern that the shots that injured two passengers were allegedly fired from a taxi. We are relieved that nobody died in the incident, but the perpetrators of this crime must nevertheless be found swiftly and face justice. Once again, this highlights the growing impunity in our society where differences and arguments are not settled through dialogue and communication, but through aggression and violence.

As a country, we should be eternally on guard against this type of mindset. The base of a constitutional democracy is dialogue. Unfortunately, whether it is service delivery protests, labour disputes or major government decisions, we witness a tendency to resort to violence. This growing culture of impunity can only be countered by a style of governance that is open, consultative and responsive. People need to feel that they have real influence in government through dialogue, and there will be those who resort to violent forms of expressions. Thank you, Chairperson.

                  PUBLIC HEARINGS ON LABOUR BROKING

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr E NYEKEMBA (ANC): Chair, subsequent to public hearings on labour broking held on 25 and 26 August 2009, the Portfolio Committee on Labour held its meeting on 1 September to assess the hearings. The committee further discussed allegations made by the DA on 27 August in this House and concluded that such allegations were without facts. Instead, the public hearings were educative to all stakeholders.

The chairperson of the portfolio committee, hon Lumka Yengeni, conducted herself appropriately. The DA is trying to defend exploitation … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon member, remember that I ruled you out of order on this one. I’m still going to do that at this point.

Mr E NYEKEMBA: It was not me, Chair. You said this was not supposed to be in motions without notice. [Interjections.] The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Hon member, can you please take your seat!

The hon member will remember that a point of order was raised on the same issue, and I said I was going to rule on it. So, can you please take your seat.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, our understanding was that your ruling was for the fact that it was a statement and not a motion. That was our understanding of your ruling.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! But this was on the same issue of labour brokers, which we are still going to rule on.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, on a point of order: We will be quite happy for the ANC to finish their statement if you can let us finish ours first. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Members, we will make a ruling on this point. So, can we leave it at this point until I make a ruling on it!

Ms F I CHOHAN: Chairperson, on a point of order: As I understand, the two motions are completely unrelated in respect of the matter which you have reserved. The matter you have reserved, Sir, pertains to the issue raised by the hon Surty about the Rules which allow for a substantive motion when somebody wants to disparage a member of this House. The current statement has nothing to do with disparaging anybody in this House. In that regard, it is completely a separate issue to the one you have reserved. You have reserved it for the purpose of deciding whether or not the member’s statement actually disparages another Member of Parliament and whether in fact that statement should not be brought in as a substantive motion. It is not about the issue of labour brokers that you are to decide on, Sir. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order! Thank you, hon member. Let us look further into this point. Can you just give us time to look at it?

Hon members, you will remember that the point of order raised by Minister Surty was a question that had to do with the integrity of one member, the hon Lumka Yengeni. The statement that I was also listening to also puts her name in, but in a way that justifies that she was right. So, I think members should allow me to go back and deal with this matter in a more satisfactory sense. Thank you.

              FREE STATE GOVERNMENT’S SPENDING ON CARS

UNSATISFACTORY LEVELS OF CO-ORDINATION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN EDUCATION
                               SYSTEM
      COMMENDING OF GOVERNMENT ON RECOGNITION OF PRIOR LEARNING

                        (Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, I have three responses

• two relate to education and one relates to Recognition of Prior Learning, RPL.

With regard to the issue in the Free State, the national department sought an explanation from the province, and we would certainly be grateful if the schools could be identified. What we can convey to the House is that there is a policy that applies uniformly throughout the country in relation to distances which learners are not permitted to walk. No provinces are allowed to withdraw the kind of transport facilities unilaterally without providing an alternative.

However, one must look at the context of accommodation and challenges within rural communities, particularly with regard to small schools. You might have a small school comprising 20 or 30 learners. In that case I think the Free State has done extremely well in ensuring that it establishes a hostel where learners from sparsely populated areas are accommodated and that there is quality education that takes place there. So, we are certainly conscious of the fact that the Free State has done extremely well in this regard. This, however, does not detract from the fact that the state, whether it is a province or local government, has a particular responsibility to ensure that our learners are provided with transport where appropriate.

With regard to the proposition made, we certainly welcome the fact that it is important for the national department and the provincial department to work together with the Presidency, particularly the National Planning Commission and the performance monitoring and evaluation unit within the Presidency. This is indeed what the government is doing, and there are indeed good examples of how this could work to contribute to more efficient delivery of services. To give an example, the Kha ri Gude programme of mass literacy has established this by doing things on a large scale uniformly across the country. One saves enormous amounts of money in terms of resources. In a situation where books, in terms of procurement, would cost R100, we would be saving something like R50 on a text book if all provinces agreed on the title of the book and procured and provided it to each learner. In that way we could have much more efficient services through the use of our resources and expand our resources.

We do believe that in terms of teacher development and a range of other things including the issue of challenges with regard to Mathematics, there has to be a collaboration amongst provinces, but driven by the national department. So, we certainly support the view that the national department should be the driver of strategic … [Interjections.] Thank you very much. [Time Expired.] [Applause.]

                         FIGHT AGAINST CRIME

                 GRANTING OF ASYLUM STATUS BY CANADA

                        (Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Chairperson, I would like to respond to the hon Magau and the hon Groenewald who talked about the recent granting of refugee status to a South African in Canada.

Let me say that the South African government has issued a statement in which we reject the basis on which the Canadian Refugee Board granted refugee status to this individual. Let me further say that with regard to the question asked and the request from the hon Magau about what the Department of International Relations and Co-operation is doing, I would like to put before this House the two processes that we have already undertaken in this regard. Firstly, our High Commissioner in Ottawa had a meeting with the director-general of the counterpart department in Canada and expressed our gravest concern in this regard. The response was that this matter is decided by an independent or quasi-government board and that the government does not take decisions in this regard nor does the government of Canada interfere in such decisions. We are of the view, however, that the relevant Minister in Canada has the ability to do a judicial review and that this should be undertaken. The South African government will be urging the Canadian government to do so.

The second level of interaction we had with the Canadian government in this regard is that our senior officials called the chargé d’affaires of the Canadian High Commission in Pretoria as currently the Canadian government is between High Commissioners - one has left and the other has not yet been fully accredited. They expressed our sincere displeasure on this move. So, we are following up on a number of these things. We do believe, as I said, that the grounds on which this board took the decision are not correct. We also question why our High Commissioner in Ottawa was not informed or consulted on this matter. We think that this shows a lack of familiarisation with the facts and the reality of South African society. While we have incredibly good bilateral relations with the Canadian government, we will be pursuing this matter and following a diplomatic procedure in order to express our views on this matter with the Canadian government.

In relation to what the hon Groenewald said, I think he is neglecting the fact that international law and practice also govern matters relating to refugees and how the status of refugees is granted. If he rejects the idea that it is racist, there is also international law to consider. We have to abide by international law as good global citizens, and we expect our partners and friends in the world to do so too. So, thank you very much for your question, hon Magau. We will, as a government, continue to pursue this matter until it is resolved. Thank you. [Applause.]

 LAUNCH OF ESSAY COMPETITION ON FOETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME IN KIMBERLEY

             CONDEMNATION OF ATTACK ON BRT BUS IN SOWETO

                        SAFE PUBLIC TRANSPORT

                        (Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, I thought it would be important for government to comment on the matter of fetal alcohol syndrome. It is a very serious problem in the country, and something must be done to address this. Various attempts and programmes have been implemented by both the previous government of the Western Cape as well as the Health department nationally.

But I think concern must be expressed along with the hon member of the ACDP at the sentiment she expressed that there is a proliferation of alcohol licences being granted in communities as a step towards 2010. The year 2010 is a soccer festival and not an alcohol binge. Therefore, I do think that hon members have a responsibility to look at this process of the granting of licences, but more particularly to look at the issue of the plight of farmworkers who are often the victims of this abuse of being given pure alcohol as payment for their work on many of the farms throughout our country. [Applause.] Therefore, it is vital that all of us as members of Parliament do take up this matter because the lives of many, many children of many families are being harmed by this abuse, particularly those of rural persons by giving them this pure and very poisonous alcohol.

Chairperson, I also want to say that we welcome the congratulations that have been expressed as well as the sympathy to those who have now become victims of violence by certain individuals who, it is alleged, are associated with the taxi industry in response to the very valiant and important step taken by the government of Gauteng to introduce a viable, affordable public transport system for the people of Gauteng. We hope that all provinces will act to ensure that we have a public transport system that works for the people rather than against them. We praise the government of Gauteng for having implemented Rea Vaya. We see that the public is infused, and it’s an important development for South Africa. [Interjections.] [Applause.] [Time expired.]

                 GRANTING OF ASYLUM STATUS BY CANADA

                        (Minister’s Response) The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chair, the statement made by the hon Groenewald is very divisive and very irresponsible. To stand in this House and justify an irresponsible act in a country where victims of racism took the trouble to forgive both the perpetrators of racism as well as those who benefited from it is unfortunate and divisive.

The actions of the said gentleman were deceptive, provocative and also divisive. He took the Canadian government for a ride by applying for asylum on the basis of deception and lies. For an hon member to stand here in this House and defend that is extremely sad. What we need to say is that his very ability to go to Canada is still part of the legacy of racism from which he benefitted. For our government and for the people of South Africa – black and white – it is good that our people have condemned and rejected his reasons overwhelmingly. We need to continue to ask our people to strive for a nonracial society and not accept insults or attacks on victims of racism when they have forgiven their perpetrators in a generous spirit. Thank you. [Applause.]

The House adjourned at 17:59. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(1)    Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Amendment Bill, 2009,
     submitted by the Minister for Cooperative Governance and
     Traditional Affairs. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Select
     Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs.

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Referral of Bill (a) The following Bill is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration and report, the committee to confer with the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and any other committee it deems necessary:

   Criminal Law (Forensic Procedures) Amendment Bill [B 2 - 2009] (National Assembly – sec 75).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration

(a)     Strategic Plan of the Department of Public Service and
    Administration for 2009-2012.


(b)     Report and Financial Statements of Public Administration
    Leadership and Management Academy (Palama) Vote 10 for 2008-2009,
    including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
    Statements and Performance Information of Vote 10 for 2008-2009 [RP
    187-2009].

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the National Gambling Board
    (NGB) for 2008-2009, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
    the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-2009
    [RP 174-2009].

(b)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African National
    Accreditation System (SANAS) for 2008-2009, including the Report of
    the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and
    Performance Information for 2008-2009 [RP 168-2009].

1. The Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs

 a) Notice No 748 published in Government Gazette No 32404 dated 14
    July 2009: National Environmental Management: Protected Areas
    Amendment Act, 2009 (Act No 15 of 2009).


 b) General Notice No 964 published in Government Gazette No 32394
    dated 15 July 2009: Draft Model Air Quality Management By-law for
    adoption and adaptation by municipalities in terms of the National
    Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act No 39 of
    2004).

 c) General Notice No 756 published in Government Gazette No 32426
    dated 20 July 2009: Marking of rhinoceros horn and hunting of white
    rhinoceros for trophy hunting purposes in terms of the National
    Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of
    2004).

 d) Government Notice No 777 published in Government Gazette No 32439
    dated 24 July 2009: National Policy in Thermal Treatment of General
    and Hazardous Waste in terms of the National Environmental
    Management: Waste Act, 2008 (Act No 59 of  2008).

 e) General Notice No 1001 published in Government Gazette No 32434
    dated 24 July 2009: List of Activities which result in Atmospheric
    emissions which have or may have a significant detrimental effect
    on the environment, including health, social conditions, economic
    conditions, ecological conditions or cultural heritage in terms of
    the National Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act
    No 39 of 2004).

1. The Minister of Basic Education

 a) Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Education Vote
    13 for 2008-2009, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
    the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 13 for
    2008-2009 [RP 191-2009].


 b) Report and Financial Statements of the Education Labour Relations
    Council for 2008-2009, including the Report of the Auditor-General
    on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of the
    Transformation Fund of the Education Labour Relations Council for
    2008-2009 [RP 176-2009].


 c) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Quality
    Assurance in General and Further Education and Training - UMALUSI
    for 2008-2009, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on
    the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-2009.