WEDNESDAY, 14 OCTOBER 2009 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I wish to acknowledge the presence of members of the Sudanese parliament in the gallery. They are here on a study visit. Hon members, welcome to our Parliament. Shukran. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

                      QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

                         PEACE AND SECURITY
                              Cluster 1

MINISTERS:

Steps taken to implement tighter protocols regarding passports and ID
                              documents

1. Mrs C Dudley (ACDP) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

   What steps has she taken with regard to (a) implementing tighter protocols with regard to issuing of passports and (b)(i) recovering and (ii) cancelling illegitimate passports and identity documents? NO1281E

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Speaker, the department, as you would know, has introduced a new passport which has new security measures to try and deal with some of the security problems around the passport. As you know, the major problem was not the passport itself but that it was issued to the wrong people.

We have also introduced another measure whereby the people who capture the data for passports have to log in with their thumbs because they were previously using passwords and they were exchanging the passwords to the point that you could never trace the person who produced the passport that was given to somebody who shouldn’t have it. We have recently introduced a system whereby you log in with your password and with your thumb so that we can tell exactly who produced which passport and who captured what information and for what passport. This will assist us in determining if somebody has issued the passports to the wrong people.

However, the passport is at the end of the line. The real document that we should secure is a birth certificate, because it is the birth certificate that enables you to get an identity document, ID, and a passport. So, if you tighten up the passport and not the birth certificate, once they have the birth certificate people would be able to get the passport no matter how tight your protocols are. That is why we are looking at tightening up the birth certificate protocols.

According to the law, every child should have a birth certificate within 30 days after his or her birth, but nobody is sticking to that. So, we would like to enforce that law which will ensure that everybody has their birth certificate before they even apply for an ID. This is because it is easier to determine the citizenship of a baby by using an ID than it is to determine that of a 30-year-old.

There is a problem with this late registration of birth where you get a 60- year-old coming to register for the first time. You can’t tell whether that 60-year-old is from South Africa or not. If you have three 60-year-olds, one from Mozambique, one from Lesotho and one from South Africa, how can you tell? We are trying to tighten the birth certificate protocols, and that is why we have a campaign that says: We are going to issue birth certificates to all South Africans who don’t have them in the next two years, so that we can do away with the late registration of births, which is the one that is used as a loophole.

Of course, if we get an illegitimately issued passport, we confiscate it and it is destroyed and that person is removed from the population register if he or she is there and, of course, we also alert the law-enforcement agencies. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, hon Minister, in the US state department’s Country Reports on Terrorism 2008 concerns were raised that issues of poor administration and corruption regarding fraudulent passports, identity documents and work permits or the security challenges and sociocultural attitudes could negatively affect government’s ability to pursue and intervene in counterterrorism initiatives. It seems from your response, hon Minister, that the department is taking these concerns seriously, but I would like to hear your take on it.

In the case of the 66 Home Affairs officials who were arrested in the 2008- 09 financial year and the further 18 suspended on allegations of fraud, what fraudulent activity were they accused of and/or arrested for, and have legal proceedings been instituted against them? Could you give us some of the relevant details concerning these matters? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Speaker, the hon member is talking about the report. Yes, indeed, when the President appointed me he quoted exactly that report to me to say these are the issues that we have to deal with and indeed we are taking that report seriously. We are trying to ensure that with time that report changes.

In terms of the officials who were arrested – she says there are 66 – I can’t memorise them. She should have alerted me, then I would have been able to give her a breakdown of what has happened to each one of them. So, if the hon member would like to ask another question, I will have an answer to that question. But, yes, procedures have been followed - those that needed to be arrested have been arrested - but I can’t give you a breakdown. Thank you.

Mrs M N MATLADI: Hon Speaker, the mic was pressed, unfortunately, by hon Dudley as she had to move across and then we had to give her space. I am sorry.

The SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Kindly press your own mic and not your neighbour’s mic. [Laughter.]

Mrs J F TERBLANCHE: Speaker, hon Minister, the turnaround strategy for the department cost almost a billion rand over the past three years. One of the consequences of that strategy was that South Africans now have to apply for visas to enter the United Kingdom and with regard to obtaining identity documents or passports, the department is referred to as Pick n Pay or Shoprite. For the right amount of money, you can buy any document.

With regard to implementing tighter protocols regarding the issuing of passports, does the Minister have a timeframe as to when the new security measures will meet international standards, and when South Africans won’t have to apply for visas to the UK anymore?

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Speaker, the passport does meet international standards as we speak now. The measures that I have spoken about, the biometric logon, is in place as we speak. As for the UK visa, the hon member would understand that it was the UK that decided on the visa, it wasn’t us. So, it’s not likely that we can determine when that will change. What I can say to the hon member is that, if the Department of Home Affairs was referred to as Shoprite and Pick n Pay, that’s not the case. We are really trying to tighten up protocols. I am not saying we are perfect, but we are no longer Shoprite or Pick n Pay. We are now the Department of Home Affairs – Undaba Zabantu. [Applause.]

Of course we have to remain vigilant and keep on introducing measures. As for the UK visa, we should be honest with ourselves. There were objective and subjective reasons why the UK introduced the visa. Until we are satisfied that we’ve addressed all the objective reasons, it would not make sense for us to go back to the UK and try to renegotiate. We should know that we are standing on firm ground by the time we go to them. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs Z B BALINDLELA: Hon Speaker, Minister, we have just come back from an oversight committee visit to areas of the ports of entry, around Beitbridge and Maseru and other areas in Ficksburg. At those ports of entry the officials have been complaining a lot about how criminals seem to have better technology than us. Apparently, by the time technology is put in place, the thieves and criminals are already far advanced. So, I want to find out from the Minister if there are any faster ways of trying to curb corruption by using technology, because in other areas like Beitbridge they actually complained that they do not even have the machinery to help them to do that.

Secondly, one of the officials during our ports of entry visit admitted that the problem is no longer with falsified documents – the passports - he said that the problem is that indeed there is corruption and that people have got genuine indicated identity documents. I just wanted to find out from the Minister if she knows about that. Thank you, sir. [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Speaker, hon member, that’s precisely what I was saying. The problem is not that the passports are forged. The problem is that somebody who does not deserve to have the passport is given the passport and that is where I started and that’s why I said our base documents should be secured.

We are starting to campaign for South Africans who don’t have IDs. We are going to schools to give the children identity documents as part of the campaign, because we don’t want, when 2011 rolls around, all of you to put us into a pressure cooker about the IDs because of wanting votes. We must, as hon members, participate in that campaign now because Home Affairs will not be put in a pressure cooker when elections come and that’s also where the loophole comes in, because when you see somebody in front of you saying: I am a South African and I don’t have an identity document, Home Affairs is not giving me an identity document, everybody will be running around and we will be getting all sorts of people into our population register who shouldn’t be there.

Hon member, this is an early warning: Start to campaign now for the IDs, so that Home Affairs won’t be in a pressure cooker in the coming election. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs D H MATHEBE: Speaker, thank you, hon Minister, for the comprehensive answer. Is there any visible progress in this regard? If yes, where and when?

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Speaker, member, yes, I am sure the hon member can look and see if she has an ID. If she has, then that’s visible progress. [Laughter.]

The fact is that now you can get your passport much quicker than before. You can even get an SMS telling you that your ID is now being printed, your ID has now arrived at the office and now you can fetch your ID. All that is visible progress. I didn’t quite understand the question. I hope I’ve answered it correctly. The fact that you can’t go to Shoprite and Pick n Pay to get an ID is visible progress. [Applause.]

     Particulars regarding applications for presidential pardon

1. Mr J H van der Merwe (IFP) asked the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development:

   (1) Whether applications for pardon were submitted by certain persons (details furnished); if so, (a) when were the applications received and (b) what progress has been made;

   (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter? NO1733E

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Speaker, I would like to respond by informing the hon member that the applications for pardon of the persons identified in this question were submitted and received by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development on 30 May 2008. These applications for pardon form part of the 2 114 applications for special dispensation for offenders allegedly convicted of offences in pursuit of a political objective.

All these applications, including those in question, were processed and they are currently in the Office of the President. As the hon member may be aware, the President was interdicted from processing these applications for pardon by the victim support groups and the Khulumani Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation, as well as others in March 2009.

This matter was first heard at the Gauteng North High Court and is now going to be heard at the Constitutional Court on 10 November 2009. At present the President cannot make a decision on this issue until the Constitutional Court has ruled on the matter.

Yes, I will make the following statement: It should be noted that the decision to pardon or not to pardon is, in terms of section 84(2)(j) of the Constitution, a decision of the President. The former President of the Republic, Mr Thabo Mbeki, in a Joint Sitting in Parliament on 21 November 2007, announced a special dispensation pardoning certain individuals who had been convicted of crimes before 16 June 1999 in furtherance of their political objectives. He announced a window of opportunity for affected individuals to apply for a presidential pardon from 15 January 2008 to April 2008. Those are the people who were convicted for offences they believe were similar to those considered by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for a very comprehensive and good answer. In Rapport, dated 3 August 2009, it was reported that these two have been in prison for 17 years and were not guilty. What I want to bring to your attention is that it is alleged that, 10 years ago, the ANC promised to assist these people and never did – this is in the newspaper. These two applicants claim that they applied for amnesty in terms of section 84(2)(j) eight years ago. Now, the question is: Were those applications that were submitted eight years ago received by your department? Because it will not surprise me if they were, in fact, received and not attended to, because hundreds of applications of this nature – even a few thousand maybe – are being ignored by your department. I’d like you to answer - with due respect – if you can make an investigation into your department to try and trace those two. And if so, what are you going to do, Mr Minister, about this backlog where people submit, in terms of the Constitution, applications … [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Speaker, the hon member should be aware of this matter, since he was part of the reference group that was appointed by the former President. These two specific applications were tabled before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and, eventually, before the committee of the reference group.

As I’ve indicated, the matter is now before the Constitutional Court; therefore, it won’t be appropriate for me to specifically respond to it. However, I can assure you that these two applications were received by the department, as I’ve indicated, and when the President was about to respond to them, the matter was taken to court. I therefore appeal to you to wait for the decision of the Constitutional Court on 10 November 2009 and thereafter the matter will proceed.

The SPEAKER: I have on my list the following speakers. Kindly move to your nearest mic, hon Mpontshane; hon Swart; and hon Smuts.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Speaker, unfortunately …

The SPEAKER: Are you Mpontshane today?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mpontshane is written on my seat. I’m sorry you have confused me with him.

The SPEAKER: There is a striking resemblance! [Laughter.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: He has not requested to ask a question. Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Speaker. I’m rising in response to you, hon Minister. I would like to draw your attention to the decision given on 30 September 2009 about Mr Chonco’s application of pardon - which I’m sure you are aware of - and the scathing comments made by the former Chief Justice, Pius Langa, which state that despite the undertakings made by the then President and the then Minister to expedite responses to pardon applications – this is now pardon applications in that particular case – the respondents have waited in vain. This is said to be unacceptable, and he added that the Constitution requires that all constitutional obligations

• wherever they lie - must be performed diligently and without delay.

Now, hon Minister, would you agree with those comments made by the learned judge, as it was his last judgment? If so, what steps will you take to ensure that such delays do not happen again? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: The Constitutional Court is the highest court in the land and the court of last resort. There’s nothing more I can add except that we have to implement what the Constitutional Court decides. On these particular matters the President, even then Presidents Mbeki, Motlanthe and, currently, Zuma were on the verge of finalising this matter when it was taken to court. So, our hands are tied until 10 November 2009.

Ms M SMUTS: Speaker, may I ask the hon Minister; and if I could, I would also ask the hon Koos; but I can’t, so to the Minister: Does he consider that the litigation by the IFP applicants for pardon, which has just culminated in the Constitutional Court judgment advising the IFP that it has been suing the wrong person, has prejudiced the prospect for pardon of other prisoners?

I have received correspondence from an ANC member who was given a pardon application reference number by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, and who argues that he is suffering because of the litigation brought by the IFP members who “do not meet the requirement”. In his view, by contrast, he feels that he meets all conditions and was commanded by his leaders to commit the crimes for which he is imprisoned.

Sir, this letter was written in a state of despair and I would like to furnish the Minister with a copy. I’m asking this question, because, clearly, this is a deeply felt sentiment on the part of this prisoner in Kroonstad. I would like to ask the Minister what the prisoner avers. Does he consider that the litigation in the Constitutional Court has made life difficult for other pardon applicants?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Speaker, I was present at the Constitutional Court when the former Chief Justice Langa delivered that judgment and the hon Koos was an instructing attorney. I don’t know how he managed that, but I must say that the Constitutional Court decided in favour of the Minister of Justice because they had sued the wrong party. We are not going to wait for them to sue us again, but rather to consider their application as the department and try to find the best way to address it.

The SPEAKER: Before the Minister rises, may I remind the hon members to please press their own buttons and not their neighbour’s? And please don’t send me lists of names. Just press the button in front of you.

Investigation into allegations regarding manipulation of crime statistics

1. Mrs L S Chikunga (ANC) asked the Minister of Police:

   (1) Whether he is investigating allegations regarding the manipulation of crime statistics; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (2) what plans does he have to address the manipulation of crime statistics? NO1856E

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the answer to the hon member’s question is yes. There are at least four cases that have been investigated by the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD. Some of the cases are in the process of being finalised and, where necessary, action will be taken against the relevant officials. It is not possible to reveal all the relevant details whilst the cases are still under investigation.

However, we can say that two cases have either been finalised or are close to finalisation. With regard to Mountain Rise Police Station, the ICD has completed its investigation, and the matter has been handed over to the provincial commissioner. The provincial head of detective services has thus far finalised the investigation into 147 dockets, most of which were not registered on the crime administration system. However, there are still another 253 dockets which are still being investigated before a final decision can be taken on disciplinary action.

The SA Police Service in the Western Cape have also finalised their investigation into the Lansdowne Police Station. After a thorough investigation of this station, the station commissioner was fired and a detective branch commander resigned before being fired. When specific allegations regarding the manipulation of crime statistics surfaced, the national commissioner referred the matter to the relevant provincial commissioner or through the Minister to the ICD for investigation.

A unit attached to crime intelligence head office is entrusted with perusing daily crime returns and media reports to check whether the cases had been correctly registered on the crime administration system. If errors are discovered, these are forwarded to the provincial commissioners for ratification. Members of this unit also visited police stations to check samples of dockets and the occurrence and incidents book entries against the registration of the crime administration system, CAS.

The results of these checks are communicated to the provincial commissioners for information and the necessary steps, if such are deemed necessary. Members at the provincial offices, during the previous financial year, have also been trained to perform a similar task in their respective provinces to enhance the correctness of crime registration throughout the country and to keep the provincial management components updated on the situation at station level.

In addition, ongoing training interventions at different levels of policing are aimed at enhancing crime information management capacity down to station level, as well as awareness of the vital role of correct and complete information in combating crime. The Ministry of Police is currently engaged in a process with Statistics SA to make use of their services in undertaking a thorough review of crime statistics management systems within the police. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs L S CHIKUNGA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Minister for his comprehensive and honest answer. Hon Minister, in August this year City Press reported that a Johannesburg Central Police Station police officer was seen throwing dockets into a dustbin. Could this incident be related to the manipulation of crime statistics? If yes, how? If no, what is the relevant information with regard to that incident? I thank you.

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Deputy Speaker, following the City Press article, the national commissioner instructed the provincial commissioner to investigate this matter. The investigation was completed by mid- September. The investigation found that a police constable from the station had destroyed papers whilst on patrol in Fox Street. This constable had torn up the papers and deposited them into the street dustbin. The constable alleged that he had been cleaning out his patrol van whilst on patrol. However, the papers that were destroyed were scrap papers, and one old docket cover sheet. No actual dockets were destroyed.

The investigators contacted the complainant whose name and details were on the docket cover sheet that was destroyed with the scrap paper. It was confirmed that the actual docket related to case 2843/06/2009 was still in the detective services and was still being investigated. The constable has been reprimanded for throwing these scrap papers away in public and not shredding them, as required in terms of management of information security services procedures. An instruction has been sent out to all stations that no papers, even if they are scrap papers, should be thrown away, and that such documents should be disposed of in accordance with these procedures. The SAPS have contacted City Press and asked them to please retract what had been printed. It is unclear whether the newspaper printed this retraction. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Madam Deputy Speaker, with all due respect to the Minister, considering that the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, directed the investigation into the criminal manipulation of crime statistics at the Mountain Rise Police Station in KwaZulu-Natal that shows that the station commander had indeed manipulated the crime statistics, thus raising that station fraudulently to the number 1 station in that province, and considering that the whistle-blower was suspended without pay by that station commissioner, could the Minister explain to this House how it is that the said station commissioner is still in his position and not suspended, pending the outcome of what I was told was the second investigation by the SAPS, who patently disbelieve ICD investigation outcomes?

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, we will urge the hon member to wait for the process, because during that period the whistle-blower that she is referring to had referred the matter to the courts of law. Because of that, we have had to take into cognisance what has happened in that process. There is no way that we can continue as if nothing has happened. The investigation that I am talking about and the dockets that are left deal with that. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: May I just inform the Minister that the court case has long been resolved.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I didn’t give you permission to speak. I thank you. I am looking at the screen for people who pressed their buttons.

Prof L B G NDABANDABA: Hon Deputy Speaker, this is a follow-up question to the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development. I don’t know why it came at a later stage, but with your permission, may I continue?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we are now dealing with the Minister of Police. Can we pass that, hon Ndabandaba? I am sure you will get your time when the questions are directed to the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, it was reported that Johan Burger of the Institute for Security Studies has charged that the alleged cooking of crime statistics by police stations in three provinces is the consequence of fear instilled in police managers by former National Police Commissioner Jackie Selebi. We believe that this fear caused some police station commanders to demand reduced crime figures from their subordinates, who, to impress them, decided not to record several reported incidents, including domestic violence, assault, fraud and even rape in the police case administration system. We believe that this was wrong, undermined good service delivery and betrayed the trust that citizens had in the police.

We want to know what government is going to do to remove this fear of recording all reported crimes and to assure police officers that if they blow the whistle on their corrupt colleagues, they will not be harassed, victimised or suspended by their superiors. I thank you.

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, hon Meshoe, the manipulation of statistics is wrong. Anybody who is involved in that will face the might of the law. It is as simple as that. That is why, whether there are targets or not, they are there to be performed honestly and diligently and not with manipulation, as raised. I wouldn’t talk about what happened in the past. Even now, there are performance indicators according to which the police have to perform. However, that does not suggest that people should manipulate statistics. We want statistics to be explained as they are, so that we develop the necessary measures to deal with them as they are.

What has happened so far is that we have seen the investigating officers, the detectives, together with the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, dealing with matters of this nature. And they will continue to do so, so that at the end of any investigation, if there is a reason for any action to be taken, it should be taken. I thank you.

Mnu V B NDLOVU: Ngiyabonga Sekela Somlomo, bengicela ukubuza kuNgqongqoshe ukuthi kulaba amacala abo aphenywayo ngokulahleka kwamadokodo nokuthi-ke bashintshe izinombolo ngabe abanye babo bahleli emakhaya yini? Bayahola yini noma bayawenza umsebenzi khona belahla amadokodo na? (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr V B NDLOVU: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I just want to know from the Minister whether those police officers who are being investigated with regard to the disappearance of dockets and the changing of docket numbers have been suspended? Are they receiving their salaries whilst on suspension or are they still working even though they steal dockets?]

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, hon member, what has happened over the period is that, with the investigation and the gravity of the matter at hand, each case has been taken individually. There are those who are still at work, investigating, to finalise the process. There are those who have been suspended, depending on the matter at hand and on the perpetrators. There are perpetrators and those who have assisted in perpetrating these wrongdoings. I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That was the last question on this. We are now moving to … [Interjections.]

Ms M N MATLADI: Hon Deputy Speaker, unfortunately my machine is not functioning properly. I have been pressing a hundred times, but you seemed not to be getting the message. They said they will attend to it, but I don’t know when. There is a question for the hon Minister of Police.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: But there are four questions already. We have had four questions for the Minister and we won’t be able to take any more now.

Ms M N MATLADI: All right.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank you very much.

Statement concerning accountability of NCACC regarding conventional arms trade

1. Mr D J Maynier (DA) asked the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development:

   Whether he will make a statement concerning the accountability of the National Conventional Arms Control Committee (NCACC) regarding the conventional arms trade with reference to the document entitled Arming Dictators All Over the World: National Conventional Arms Control Committee in Crisis, dated 2 August 2009? NO1881E

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, I’m really surprised by this question from Mr Maynier, because he knows full well that I held a press conference at the Union Buildings on 6 August on the document he released on 2 August, where I indicated comprehensively government’s response to the spurious allegations that were made on that particular document which was widely reported in the media. I indicated there and I am repeating it now that the business of the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC, is done in accordance with the law and the Constitution. We are accountable to Cabinet, Parliament and also to the United Nations.

The following day, on 7 August, I was with Tim Modise on the After 8 Debate, where I addressed this issue with the general public. Mr Maynier also had the opportunity of fielding questions and, caller after caller, he was condemned for what he had said. So, I don’t know what statement he wants me to make right now.

I also came before Parliament and the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans, where the hon member was also present. We spent almost two and half hours in that meeting. So, I don’t know what the basis of this question is, more than what I have indicated already.

Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, at the time of the release of this report, the Minister accused me of telling lies about dodgy arms deals. But rather than refute the allegations, the Minister then called a press conference where he confirmed the allegations. The Minister conceded in his media statement that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC, had turned down an application for the authorisation of the sale of aviator G- suits to Iran.

The Minister at that time, together with his colleagues in the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, stepped up to the plate and did the right thing. But that was not the real test. The Minister must now be aware that the company, Parachute Industries of Southern Africa, that applied for a permit to export thousands of aviator G-suits to Iran does not in fact produce aviator G-suits. The Minister must now be aware that the company which owns Parachute Industries of Southern Africa - that is the Zodiac group - which is a company based in France, does in fact produce aviator G- suits. [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, I think this gentleman needs to be examined. [Laughter.] He repeats this lie time and time again. I don’t really understand what he is up to. I responded that there is nothing wrong we have done in terms of the law. We are not accountable to Mr Maynier and his DA. We are accountable to this Parliament, Cabinet and the United Nations. There is nothing we have done thus far that is in violation of any United Nations security resolutions on arms embargo. At the time he is referring to … [Interjections.]

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I would just like to ask if the Minister would care to explain what he means by “the member needs to be examined”.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That is really not a point of order. Please continue, Minister.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: I am saying, in conclusion, that there is nothing this government has done that is in violation of our Constitution, the law or the United Nations security resolutions on arms embargo. All transactions we have done with Iran, Libya and all other countries were in accordance with the United Nations security resolutions.

Just to respond to you directly, when the United Nations placed embargoes on Iran, we never had any transactions with that country. So, I don’t understand why he keeps on harping on this issue. There is an English saying that says, “never flog a dead horse”. [Applause.]

Ms M N MATLADI: Hon Deputy Speaker, as you were calling on me now, I was still being consulted for the answer to the question I had to ask the hon Minister of Police. I was briefing the lady on the matter because they wanted to make a follow-up on the question. So, my machine is not on. As I told you, it does not function well. So, it keeps on indicating that it is on even when my hand is not up.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: But your name is reflecting here. I’m not sure which machine you are referring to.

Ms M N MATLADI: It is the previous one that I called the technicians to come and have a look at. They said there was nothing they could do. So, it’s not my problem. It is the problem of the machinery.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: So, I take it that you don’t have a question for the Minister.

Mr M S BOOI: Madam Deputy Speaker, Minister, I think the most important thing we need to arrive at is how you could assist the member to understand how the system operates. This is because he seems not to understand how one, between the executive and Parliament, continues to monitor and ensure that the things he raises are more relevant and are raised in a proper manner within the channels of Parliament.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, the hon member of the DA should know that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC, operates in accordance with the Constitution and the law that was passed by this Parliament in 2002. We have many committees in there. We have a scrutiny committee that prepares documentation that consists of relevant government departments like Trade and Industry, International Relations and Co-operation, Defence and State Security. It report to the NCACC, which I am chairing. From time to time we come to Parliament to report, like we did when we were called upon to do so. We report to Cabinet, and we also make an annual report to the United Nations organisation.

None of these structures have ever, even on one day, indicated to us that there was something wrong with the work of the NCACC. So, maybe the portfolio committee needs to do the hon member a favour by providing him with a copy of the Constitution, the Act, the relevant clauses of the United Nations and all the reports that have been submitted by this committee. We are also going to, later this month, report in terms of the law that says we must make quarterly reports. We are going to do so. We never said we were not going to make any of these reports available. I have also taken a decision that the reports that were given previously should be made public. There is nothing controversial about any of the matters that we are dealing with. But, in instances where there are commercial agreements and confidential agreements between parties involved, we will not reveal this information. This is all in accordance with the law that this Parliament has passed.

Mr J R B LORIMER: Deputy Speaker, Minister, perhaps you should consider whether you are accountable to your own former leader. Former President Nelson Mandela announced that human rights will be the light that guides our foreign affairs when he announced that we made a clear break with our foreign policy practices of the past.

To give effect to the principle that human rights should be the foundation of our foreign policy, we passed a law to regulate the sale of conventional arms. The preamble to that law says that our country is a responsible member of the international community and will not trade in conventional arms with states engaged in repression, aggression and terrorism. Yet, now it emerges that we are dealing with some of the most repressive regimes in the world.

The Minister confirmed in his media statement of 6 August that there were permits awaiting authorisation for the sale of thousands of sniper rifles to Syria and millions of rounds of ammunition to Zimbabwe. Will the Minister give this House the assurance that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC, will do the right thing and refuse the permits for the sale of sniper rifles to Syria and ammunition to Zimbabwe? [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, well, the ANC, long before the DA thought human rights were the be-all and end-all in South Africa, has always been pursuing human rights. That is why we campaigned for apartheid to be declared a crime against humanity and a threat to world peace when your predecessors, the DA, were in the apartheid Parliament. [Interjections.]

So, you are not the ones to tell us who to trade with. We are guided by our own conscience. As the people who pursue human rights in South Africa, our Constitution and the law, we cannot be dictated to by the DA on who to trade arms with. We are going to take decisions on a case by case basis. If it is appropriate to sell arms to Syria, we shall do so. These are commercial agreements between private sector companies in the main.

For your information, we have not taken any decisions to sell any arms to Zimbabwe since July of this year. This is not because the DA says so, but it is because we monitor a situation on a case by case basis. So, to answer your question directly, we are not going to be dictated to by the DA on what to do. We are going to be dictated to by the policies of this government and Parliament. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, can you tell us whether South Africa has any intentions of trading arms with Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez, who says his country is working with Iran to find uranium. If so, what arms are to be traded, and for what purposes? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Well, Venezuela is one of our most important trading partners in Latin America. We shall continue to do business with them. For that matter, I will give a response in this regard. We have agreed and approved arms to Venezuela as the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC. There is nothing wrong with that. It is going to increase trade between our two countries. [Applause.]

Defence Department’s performance with regard to Public Service Commission report on noncompliance with regulation compelling senior managers to declare interests

1. Mr L Ramatlakane (Cope) asked the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans:

   (1) Whether she has reviewed her department’s performance with regard to the Public Service Commission report on noncompliance with Chapter 3 of the Public Service Regulation which compels senior managers (SMSs) to declare all interests annually; if not, why not; if so, (a) how many did not declare their interests, (b) what are the names of noncompliant officials or SMSs, (c) what is each one’s rank, (d) what action has been taken in each case and (e) what was the outcome in each case;

   (2) whether a lack of action indicates complacency by the executive authority; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether a failure to act against noncompliance constitutes misconduct; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1630E

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, the hon Ramatlakane from the newly founded entity called Cope asks me whether I have … [Interjections.] Chair, will you protect me? [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, would you kindly allow us to hear the response of the Minister to the question.

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: … whether I have reviewed my department’s performance with regard to the Public Service Commission’s report on noncompliance with Chapter 3 of the Public Service Regulation which compels senior managers under Senior Management Service, SMS, to declare all interests annually; if not, how many did not declare, etc.

Firstly, my response to the first part of the question is that we have reviewed the report that was given to the Public Service Commission which was handed in by the former Minister, Minister Nqakula. I am happy to announce that out of 268 officials, 99% of them have complied. When checking through our records we found that three brigadiers-general had not responded on time. We have since followed up with letters reminding them of noncompliance and they are now responding to that matter. They have assured us that they had responded to the register. Perhaps we did not file the reports in accordance with their responses. They are, however, dealing with the matter.

Secondly, in response to part (b) of section (1) of the question which asks for the names of noncompliant senior managers, I would not, at this moment, say that they would be noncompliant senior managers, because they have telephonically committed themselves to doing something about it. They have actually indicated that they did respond. So, we are checking our own records to see where we might have lost their forms.

Thirdly, part (c) of section (1) of the question asks about the ranks of each of the senior managers who did not declare their interests and, by way of responding, I stated that they are brigadiers-general.

Fourthly, part (d) of section (1) asks about actions that have been taken with regard to the noncompliant senior managers. My response is that we have reminded them and they are responding to the matter.

Fifthly, part (e) of section (1) of the question enquires about the outcome of each case and my response is that there is no outcome. We expect that very soon they should be responding to our reminder.

Lastly, section (2) seeks to establish whether or not lack of action indicates complacency, and if not what the position is in this regard. My answer is in the negative; it does not, and there is no position. Thank you.

Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Deputy Speaker, for the record and for the Minister to know, let me state that this is no entity, this is Cope. Arising from the response by the Minister, I would think that the Minister is fairly aware of the Act, the Public Service Act, as proclaimed in 1999, and the Public Service Regulation, specifically Chapter 3. I heard the Minister saying that there is no complacency, but if one looks at what the Act says in terms of the compliance, it says 30 April of every year.

In terms of the date on which the question was submitted to the Minister, does she believe that the date of 30 April was complied with? The Public Service Regulation stipulates what action the Minister has to take should there be failure with regard to that compliance, including the misconduct. Does the Minister believe that her action is in compliance with the Public Service Regulation and the Act?

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, let me thank the hon Ramatlakane and add that it’s a question of semantics whether or not what we were talking about is an entity or a party. I did indicate that the compliance issue was dealt with by former Minister Nqakula, my predecessor. All the officials except three seem to have been registered. Upon assumption of duty I reviewed the matter and found that these three had actually indicated telephonically that they had submitted their forms. We have asked them to resubmit. Failure to respond to this within the time allocated to them would then result in misconduct.

I want to indicate to the hon member over there that some of our members spend quite a lot of time out of the country on peacekeeping missions. So, the deadline that we give them differs from time to time depending on where they are. In fact, there is no dragging of feet here, we have been doing our work and I’m quite happy with the progress that we have made. I thought you would stand up and congratulate me on 99%. Thank you. Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, Minister, in the light of disclosure at meetings of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans over the past two days that senior officials in the South African National Defence Force, SANDF, and Armscor procurement structures have business interests, will the Minister be investigating procurement processes and driving changes to legislation or rules that will forbid officials, specifically those involved in procurement, from having any business interests at all outside of their jobs?

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, I don’t know if this is still a follow-up question, but I want to assure the hon member that, just as the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans is seized with the matter, I’m seized with the matter myself. Should the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans require me to investigate the matter, I am open to that. Thank you.

Mr M S BOOI: Deputy Speaker, Minister, given that you have made so much progress within the department, do you think that these types of questions that are being raised regarding senior managers will have any effect on the work that they are doing and being able to continue improving the image of the department itself?

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, hon Booi, I also wondered whether this was the best way of occupying our time out here. With new kids on the block, what can you expect? However, I’m open to entertain their views from time to time. But thank you for the compliment, I think we have done exceedingly well. Should the hon member out there want to contribute to us, we have a portfolio committee that meets fairly regularly. Please feel free to come and join us. Thank you.

Mr S N SWART: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, it is commendable that the compliance rate is commendable. Hon Minister, you might consider this a separate question. In terms of Chapter 3(g) of the Public Service Regulation, the Public Service Commission is required to make a finding as to whether there is a real or potential conflict of interest between the registerable interest and employment in the case of one such interest having been disclosed. Has there been any action taken in that regard? Are you aware of any further steps that have been taken in relation to that conflict of interest?

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, my response to hon Swart is in the negative. We submit the senior managers’ assessments and declarations to the Public Service Commission. The Public Service Commission goes through them, scrutinises them and, from time to time, brings anything to the attention of the executive authority should they think that perhaps there might be a conflict of interest.

On the other hand, this is a guide to the executive authority to indicate that there might eventually, or in the course of the work of a particular senior manager, be a conflict of interest. I have not detected this. However, as hon Lorimer has indicated, the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans has some concerns and I’m open to that. They will probably deal with this matter themselves, but they can also refer it to me and I will scrutinise the matter further. Thank you.

Findings of investigations into circumstances surrounding deaths of inmates in KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape

1. Mr V G Smith (ANC) asked the Minister of Correctional Services:

   (a) What were the findings of the investigations into the circumstances surrounding the deaths of inmates in KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape in the past eight months and (b) how many (i) officials have been implicated in these incidents and (ii) of these officials are still in the employ of her department? NO1879E

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, we have received reports about three inmates who were lost and died in the Eastern Cape, due to unnatural causes, and five in KwaZulu-Natal. I must say that, of the three, one case was concluded in the Eastern Cape. Its investigation was concluded. In KwaZulu-Natal, only three cases were investigated and concluded.

In August, we appeared before the portfolio committee to inform the committee that a death had occurred at the Kokstad maximum security facility. We visited the facility, and we gave a directive to the acting national commissioner to investigate this particular case. We are particularly interested because of the kind of facility it is, which is a maximum facility, catering for very dangerous offenders.

The team began its work on 18 August, and we have since received a report on 9 October. We must point out that the draft report points to acts of criminality on the side of members. It is recommending disciplinary action for some and, for others, the laying of criminal charges with the South African Police Service.

We are currently interacting with the office of the inspecting judge to make sure that the rest of the cases that have not been reported to them or concluded, be concluded as soon as possible. Thank you.

Mr V G SMITH: Deputy Speaker, Madam Minister, thank you very much for your response. I think we are pleased that something is being done, reason being, Minister, that the mission of your department talks to human rights and the security of inmates; and with these deaths as a result of officials, there was a danger that you would lose that. Not so long ago, three officials were convicted in Krugersdorp, so the committee, certainly the ANC component of the committee, was beginning to get concerned that, unless this is arrested, there would be problems of the environment moving from one of security and human rights to one of lawlessness. So, in terms of what you’ve explained to us, we are more than happy that something is being done, and it is being addressed. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, hon member, I think that with the incident in Kokstad, in particular, we have learned, as a department, that it is always better for us to be the ones who take, or seize, the initiative and direct the department to investigate, without undermining the work that is being done by the inspecting judge. In that way, you are able to set timeframes for the investigators and you are able to raise issues if you identify any gaps in the report.

I am happy, for instance, with this investigation and the outcome of the Kokstad report, because I believe that a lot of work was done, very objective outcomes are reflected in the report, and that we are acting on this matter. We will be reporting those who should be reported to the police so that they can be charged and, for those who are going for the disciplinary process, the process has already begun.

Mr A T FRITZ: Deputy Speaker, Minister, we would also just like to know what other steps are being put in place by the Minister to stop and curtail the occurrence of assaults that lead to deaths in prison and whether the inspecting judge has the appropriate capacity to deal with deaths in prisons in South Africa.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, hon Fritz, to be honest, this is a very difficult matter. It is a very sensitive matter in that there is a human rights issue here, which has been violated on a number of occasions by our own members. Actually, in most cases, and this is what we found out from the last investigation, it is because we need to look at the circumstances leading to the death of the inmate.

We find that in most cases, in fact, it is a matter of officials reacting to assaults by inmates on them. Unfortunately, the manner in which they then react, which goes back to the definition of maximum force, has, in a sense, led to deaths in some of these cases. We find that, unless we deal with the whole matter of gangs in our centres, we are not going to be able to avoid, when we should not even be having, these kinds of unnatural deaths.

Indeed, if you have a gang culture, for instance, in the case of Kokstad, where people simply took a decision that the centre was not properly opened, we need to take steps in order for it to have been properly opened. Obviously, the reaction of the members is that, in defend themselves by applying maximum force, this maximum force has unfortunately led to these kinds of incidents. Thank you.

Steps taken by department to assist South African farmers in Zimbabwe

1. Mr K S Mubu (DA) asked the Minister of International Relations and Co- operation:

   What steps are her department taking to (a) assist South African farmers in Zimbabwe whose farms have been taken over by ZANU-PF officials to recover their farms, (b) ensure that the farmers receive fair compensation for their lost properties and (c) ensure their personal safety and security and that of their families? NO1870E

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation has, through diplomatic channels, engaged the Zimbabwean government to intercede on behalf of South African farmers. However, this engagement has been constrained by the absence of investment protection mechanisms between our two countries.

The matter of compensation to farmers is negotiated between the affected farmer and the relevant Zimbabwean authorities. The applicable Zimbabwean law, the Acquisition of Farm Equipment or Material Act of 2004, provides that compensation be paid for improvements on land and equipment. In keeping with provisions of international conventions and applicable South African legal instruments, the department, on receipt of information that the life of a South African farmer is threatened, engages through diplomatic channels with the relevant Zimbabwean authorities. I thank you.

Mr K S MUBU: Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank you very much, Madam Minister. The SADC Tribunal has passed a judgment that has been in favour of Mike Campbell and 77 other farmers for the return of their properties, but the Zimbabwean government has obviously repeatedly ignored this judgment.

Is there a way in which our bilateral agreements or treaties with Zimbabwe can be used to address this pathetic situation, to try to return these properties to their rightful owners? I thank you.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Deputy Speaker, with all due respect, I will have to repeat what I said earlier. In the absence of an investment protection mechanism between our two countries, which is still under negotiation, we really have to abide by the laws of both our country and those of Zimbabwe, and continue the negotiations on these important agreements that are still under discussion by the relevant Ministries.

An HON MEMBER: They don’t abide by the law! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hayi wena! [Order!]

Mr H T MAGAMA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, we note that Zimbabwe, of course contrary to the perception of some in the House, is not the 10th province of South Africa, but an independent sovereign state, and that compensation, if any, will indeed logically take place in accordance with Zimbabwe’s own laws.

Now Minister, we know that the department has been engaged for quite some time with the establishment of the Bilateral Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement, or Bippa. Could you perhaps inform the House about the progress that has been made in this regard? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Deputy Speaker, hon member, the negotiations, as I said earlier, are still going on with the respective departments. As and when they are concluded, we shall duly inform members. I thank you.

Particulars regarding performance agreements with top management structures in SAPS, Secretariat and Independent Complaints Directorate

1. Ms A van Wyk (ANC) asked the Minister of Police: (1) Whether he has performance agreements with his top management structures in the (a) SA Police Service, (b) Secretariat and (c) Independent Complaints Directorate; if so, what are these agreements based on; if not,

   (2) whether such agreements will be developed and implemented; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether these agreements have been signed; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1855E

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon member for the question. The National Commissioner, B H Cele, was appointed on 1 August 2009 as head of the Department of Police. In terms of chapter 4 of the performance management and development system, the national commissioner has three months in which to sign his performance agreement.

The performance agreement for the national commissioner has been developed and is based on the strategic plan of the SAPS, performance agreements signed by the previous national commissioner and acting national commissioner and the performance management and development system.

The agreement is in the process of being finalised and some amendments may be made based on the outcome of the recent SAPS strategic management planning. This agreement will be finalised within the next three weeks. Once this agreement is finalised the national commissioner will develop and implement performance management agreements for the SAPS senior management.

The performance agreement for the secretary of police was developed for a fixed-term period in line with the fixed-term contract signed by the secretary of police herself. The performance agreement is based on the performance management and development system as well as the policy guidelines developed for re-engineering the restructuring of the secretariat of police.

The agreement was signed on 1 September 2009. The secretariat is currently involved in a restructuring exercise and revision of their five-year strategic plan. Based on the outcome of these processes, performance management agreements will be signed with all senior management of the secretariat.

The executive director of the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, Mr F Beukman, was appointed on 7 August 2009 and, as with the national commissioner, Mr Beukman’s performance agreement is in the process of being finalised. Mr Beukman’s agreement is based on the performance management and development system, the policy guidelines on the restructuring of the ICD and the 2008 parliamentary portfolio committee’s recommendations on the functioning of the ICD.

The agreement will be finalised by 7 November 2009. Once this agreement is finalised, the executive director will develop and implement performance agreements for all senior managers of the ICD. I thank you.

Ms A VAN WYK: Deputy Speaker, thank you very much, Minister, for the quick movement on these performance agreements. We believe as the ANC that a lot of the implementation that we don’t see in departments is as a result of performance agreements that are not in place, and for that reason we believe it is important.

However, Mr Minister, once these agreements have been signed, also the level of division of deputy national commissioners and provincial commissioners and with the senior managers in the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, and the secretariat, will the Minister ensure us that the compliance to achieve these performance agreements will be followed; and where the performance agreements are actually not reached, whether the Minister will institute sanctions to deal with those senior managers who do not perform according to the agreements?

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, yes, hon member, we will follow the Public Service regulations to the letter. You might be aware that they also have sanctions on the failure to perform by senior public officials. Thank you.

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Deputy Speaker, it is indeed laudable, Minister, that the SAPS has finally moved to join the rest of the corporate world by introducing service agreements. Obviously, one would like to see station heads also signing them in order for them to be held accountable. So, would the Minister share with the House what the consequences would be should one or more of those in the structure who have signed such an agreement fail to deliver on their side of the contract? Should that person not face sanctions, as suggested by the hon Van Wyk; or be dismissed should they fail to prove unequal to the task of the KPAs of that contract or, for example, the accepted aim in this country - the target of bringing down crime at least 7% to 10%?

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Speaker, thank you, hon member. Just for your information, the SAPS is not only joining this corporate world that you are talking about. These agreements have been there even, as I said, with the former commissioners and both the former and the acting commissioner thereafter.

However, as I responded to the question, we will follow to the letter the Public Service regulations. We are not going to invent anything outside those parameters of the Public Service regulations. We will follow them to the letter. Thank you.

Alignment by department of its demarcation for the jurisdiction of regional commissioners

1. Mr M N Phaliso (ANC) asked the Minister of Correctional Services:

   When will her department align its demarcation for the jurisdiction of the regional commissioners in accordance with the provincial boundaries as determined by section 103 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa? NO1844E

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, the hon member might be aware that, prior to 2003, there were indeed nine provincial commissioners, with one appointed for each of the nine provinces.

However, a decision was later taken to review that position. That review was based on an assessment of the workload borne by each commissioner – that is, the number of centres, offender population size, bed space, etc – and resulted in us appointing six regional commissioners, with two of these regional commissioners managing more than one province.

Otherwise, in terms of demarcation according to the Constitution, no changes were made. Thank you.

Mr M N PHALISO: Deputy Speaker, inconsistencies might arise from disparities between the amounts of responsibility carried by regional commissioners and this might have an adverse effect on service delivery in the Department of Correctional Services.

What is the Minister planning to do in the intervening period to ensure that the Limpopo, Mpumalanga, North West, Free State and Northern Cape regions receive the requisite support to enable them to perform optimally and thus meet the Department of Correctional Services’ outcomes? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, the hon member should know that, as far as we are concerned, we are happy with the manner in which we have structured the department.

The hon member will find that there are management areas which have inmate populations that are equal to or even higher than some provincial inmate populations. So, it indeed became necessary for us to combine some of the provinces and have them managed by one regional commissioner.

So, in the case of Limpopo, the North West and Mpumalanga, there are no challenges with regard to the management of the correctional centres. It suffices that we have one regional commissioner responsible for the three.

If we had had a regional commissioner allocated to each one of those provinces, it would actually have meant that we would have had to downgrade the level of that regional commissioner. This is obvious because of the workload there.

Mr A T FRITZ: Deputy Speaker, we would firstly like to know whether the Minister is happy with the current six commissioners’ – I know that there are two vacant positions – qualifications, competence and capabilities.

Secondly, in the same context, we would like to know whether the Minister is convinced, from a purely service delivery point of view, that those commissioners are delivering the kind of services required.

Thirdly, we would like to know when the Minister is going to fill those two vacant positions. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Fritz. Well, firstly, we actually have six regional commissioner posts and only one is vacant. That is the KwaZulu-Natal post, in which we have an acting regional commissioner. In the case of Mpumalanga, I would like to remind hon Fritz that the regional commissioner is on suspension and so still occupies the post.

Secondly, I am sure hon Fritz will be happy to hear that we are actually doing transfers. We are engaged in a process of transferring people to different provinces and once we have completed that reorganisation we will report to this House.

Obviously, we do have a team of dedicated people. Yes, there may, at times, be shortcomings in the manner in which they do things and they discharge their duties at times, but I certainly would not want to question their commitment and dedication to the department. Thank you.

Particulars regarding calls received on counter-corruption toll-free number

1. Mrs J F Terblanche (DA) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

   (1) How many calls have been received on the counter-corruption toll- free number since 1 April 2008;

   (2) whether any of these calls led to successful investigations which resulted in (a) disciplinary and (b) criminal procedures; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1871E

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, since April 2008, the toll- free number that belongs to the Public Service Commission forwards these matters to Home Affairs in the form of cases.

Five hundred and seventy-five cases have been investigated. Of those, 240 have resulted in action being taken against the officials and 125 of these cases have been referred to the department’s employee relations directorate for disciplinary procedures to be instituted against the officials concerned. One hundred and fifteen of those cases have been referred to the SA Police Service for further investigation and the institution of criminal proceedings against those officials. Thank you.

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Deputy Speaker, has the Minister identified a trend indicating more complaints about certain offices than others; and if so, has the Minister launched any investigations into these specific corruption hot spots in order to rectify the situation and put a stop to corruption once and for all?

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, I wish there were just a few hot spots. [Laughter.]

Let me just say that one of the things that is now beginning to help us - we will see the results in the coming period – is the biometric login. We are rolling this out and, in the offices where we have rolled it out, we are beginning to pick up certain trends. We can now identify not only the office but also the actual official. There are certain trends that we are looking at. Hopefully, utilising that, we will not only be able to identify those hot spots where corruption happens in the front-line offices, but also identify the exact individuals.

We are also a bit concerned about the ports of entry, but the system has not been implemented there yet. The cluster is investigating a way of forming a single entity that is going to look after the ports of entry because there are many role-players there, amongst others Home Affairs, the police and Sars. We are discussing ways to consolidate resources and practices so that we have a single entity that can manage the ports of entry. That is going to take a bit of time, but it’s on our programme. Thank you.

Adv Z L MADASA: Deputy Speaker, during the previous week, when we were doing oversight at the ports of entry, we indeed confirmed what is already commonly known, namely that corruption levels are high and many officials are either charged or dismissed. In terms of taking action, the department is obviously doing well.

We have mentioned the issue of the management of ports of entry and it is also true that there are low levels of co-operation among the departments that are involved in managing those ports of entry. Your suggestion about a single entity is, in fact, welcomed.

The issue I want to raise is that we are of the view that, given this crisis of human resources, and in order to avoid a vicious cycle, you need to take steps at a recruitment level, so that when you actually recruit, the people are properly screened to avoid a vicious cycle. Thank you. [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, the hon member is right. However, as we speak, there are already 7 000 people working at Home Affairs. The new recruits will thus be fewer than the staff already employed at Home Affairs. So, besides reviewing our recruitment policy, we also need to keep training the existing staff, while dismissing those whom we can’t do much about.

We also need to take a closer look at society, because, for every corrupt act, there is somebody who is doing the corrupting – in other words, there is somebody employed at Home Affairs who is corrupt – but there is also some member of society who is corrupt.

I think we should all be working towards making sure that society understands that corruption at Home Affairs is very serious. It can undermine the security of the country. I think we should all be preaching that, so that people know that they are endangering our security as a country by being corrupt.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that, when we recruit, we have to scrutinise everything and get the national security agencies to also look into the person’s background, as we do with senior managers in government.

Discussions regarding lifting of recently announced visa requirements for SA citizens visiting the UK

1. Mr N J J van R Koornhof (Cope) asked the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation:

   Whether she held discussions with her United Kingdom, UK, counterpart to lift the recently announced visa requirements for South African citizens visiting the UK; if not, why not; if so, what was the outcome of such discussions? NO1828E

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, immigration matters and matters related to the visa regime that are imposed on South Africans by any country, including the United Kingdom, fall within the ambit of the functions of my colleague here, the hon Minister of Home Affairs. However, as the department co-ordinates international relations for our government, I will share the following information with the hon member.

The governments of South Africa and the United Kingdom discussed immigration matters at the last South Africa-UK Bilateral Forum, held from 7 to 8 July 2008 in Tshwane. On that occasion, the then Minister of Home Affairs held talks with her British counterpart.

Further talks were held in London on 23 February 2009. An agreement on proposed returns could not be reached at that stage. However, what is heartening is that the UK government had confirmed to us that they see this as a temporary measure, whilst we are resolving our internal problems in South Africa.

The government of the United Kingdom announced the imposition of a visa regime on South African nationals in February 2009, with effect from March

1. My predecessor held discussions with her counterpart in London on 6 March 2009, during which this matter was again discussed.

Relations between South Africa and the UK remain strong and sound and the visa regime remains on the agenda of bilateral discussions between the two governments. I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could I just find out from you, hon Minister, if you would be able to take supplementary questions?

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, thank you, hon Minister, for that reply. I think it’s encouraging to hear that there are bilateral talks and that the government of the United Kingdom said that this is a temporary arrangement. However, what I would like to ask the Minister is whether she is aware that this arrangement will cost the economy approximately R500 million next year.

We all know that the United Kingdom is a very important long-haul destination for South Africa. Let me explain. Because South African travellers pay for their visas, that R500 million will not be available to be spent in South Africa; that is why there is a visa cost to the economy. I would like to have the Minister assure us that she will work with her predecessor so that we can resolve this as soon as possible.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I thought that the supplementary questions would go to the relevant Minister. As I said earlier on, the Minister of Home Affairs is available. We are co-ordinating the activities of this government in so far as international relations are concerned. Therefore, the cost to the economy and all related questions would be better handled by my colleague and neighbour here, the Minister of Home Affairs.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That’s exactly why I asked the question. The Minister of International Relations and Co-operation stated earlier on that although she would give a reply to the question, in fact the question was supposed to be directed to the Minister of Home Affairs.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Deputy Speaker, if the Speaker agrees, we can do a bilateral.

Mr S MOKGALAPA: Madam Deputy Speaker, surely this is a matter of public significance and interest, as many South African citizens are inconvenienced by these restrictions. Compliance with these requirements is necessary and the timeframes are important in this regard.

The question to the relevant Minister is: At what stage will the Minister be in a position to go to her UK counterpart to indicate that we have complied with the requirements as stipulated by their home affairs secretary and for them to lift the requirements? I thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could I find out if the Minister is able to answer the question now? If not, a reply to the question can follow at a later stage.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, we have a bilateral meeting with my counterpart from the United Kingdom scheduled for tomorrow. He has since sent a message asking for the postponement of our engagement tomorrow. However, I will leave the rest of the response to the Minister of Home Affairs.

What we really want to clarify here is that indeed, yes, we are sincerely and clearly engaged with our counterparts on this very important matter.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Deputy Speaker, we will go to the UK to renegotiate when we feel we are ready; secondly, there are things that the United Kingdom is asking for that we will not agree to. So, in terms of our processes, once we are ready, we’ll go back to them.

For example, they want people who got South African passports fraudulently 15 years or so ago to return to South Africa. I’m not about to agree to that, but we can discuss this issue with them.

When we are ready with our internal processes, we’ll go back to them and ask if we can renegotiate on some issues. However, having people that went to the United Kingdom a long time ago return to South Africa might be problematic. Thank you.

Ms T B SUNDUZA: Deputy Speaker, thank you, Minister, for your response and for clarifying to us that the visa requirements for South African citizens visiting the United Kingdom are temporary. My supplementary question, arising from your reply, is: Is there any other country in the Commonwealth that has raised the issues that the United Kingdom has raised based on what your colleague has said? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, not as far as we know, but if that happens we will respond accordingly.

We are happy with the work that is under way in the Department of Home Affairs, but we need the support of all South African citizens so as to make sure that we cut down on these challenges that tend to become quite embarrassing at times.

Training of immigration officers in light of passenger processing agreement with Sita regarding visitors to 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup tournament

1. Mr B A D Martins (ANC) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

   (1) Whether, in light of the passenger processing agreement with the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, which will eliminate immigration checks and formalities of visitors for the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup tournament at South African airports, her department has ensured that immigration officials are properly trained and prepared for this initiative; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (2) to what extent is this initiative being popularised locally and internationally? NO1100E

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Martins, the answer is yes, the training of officials, including immigration officials who will be directly involved in issues related to the Advanced Passenger Processing, APP, system at the three main ports of entry, namely O R Tambo International Airport, Cape Town International Airport and Durban International Airport, commenced on 6 October 2009.

It must also be noted that the APP system does not eliminate the current immigration checks that all inbound passengers are required to undergo. It will, however, allow a great majority of travellers to be precleared as low- risk before they arrive at our ports of entry, and as a result the clearance process will be accelerated.

Locally, the APP system forms part of the department’s greater 2010 communication strategy and is being embarked upon as such internationally. The International Air Transport Association or the control authorities working group is well aware of the acquiring of the system by the Department of Home Affairs and the processes thus far, and the department is regularly represented at its annual meetings or workshops.

Of course, in addition to this, there is also work that is being done with the Local Organising Committee, LOC, in terms of recruiting volunteers. They will not be doing immigration work, but they will be assisting in directing passengers so that the queues can be cleared quickly. Thank you.

Mr B A D MARTINS: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, will it be possible to utilise the skills of the personnel thus trained beyond 2010?

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, yes, hon member, those people who are trained will be utilised at the ports of entry and also, some of them will be trained to use the IT aspects of the system, so they will continue to be used. In fact, where possible, we’ll be using this skill beyond 2010 anyway.

Mr J J MCGLUWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ID really applauds this initiative, but of concern to us, hon Minister, is that the Advanced Passenger Processing system is an integration of the Department of Home Affairs’ R4 billion Who Am I Online project. There is much controversy surrounding the tender for this project, and since the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs hasn’t perused the forensic audit, how will this Advanced Passenger Processing system then affect the process that will take place in October? It was also promised by Sita that they would look into land and sea ports of entry as far as 2010 is concerned. If this is still the case, when will this happen, especially looking at the high volume of entrants at the port of entry at Beitbridge? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, member, first of all, let me just say to the hon member that the Who Am I Online contract that we have is for plus-minus R2 billion and not R4 billion anymore. Secondly, regarding the forensic audit, I know one hon member said here yesterday that we were hiding it. Even if you put a gun to my head and said I should show it to you, I couldn’t, because we haven’t received it yet, so we don’t have the forensic audit from the auditors yet.

What I do know is that Treasury has given us money to use for Who Am I Online on the 2010-related issues, because we can’t wait. The government has made undertakings for 2010, so that process has to continue and Treasury has given us the money for 2010-related arrangements. Thank you.

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, I understand that this plan will be effected at our main ports of entry, which are basically the airports, but I would like to know something else. During our visit last week it was clear that security measures at the Lesotho border were not efficient enough. Scanning machines were standing at two ports of entry like expensive white elephants and people walked through our borders without their baggage being scanned or manually searched.

I would like to know, Minister, how do you plan on ensuring that visitors with criminal intentions do not enter the country during the Fifa 2010 World Cup, as surely the elimination of immigration checks leaves this open to abuse?

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, hon member, first of all, let me say that, with regard to this Advanced Passenger Processing system, we worked together with the other members of the security sector. If a person’s name is on the Interpol or our own police list it will show and that’s precisely why we want advanced processing, because such a person will not even board the plane if we find out that he’s trying to come here.

Therefore our system will be working with them, linking with our own list of people who are known to be criminals, but those whom we do not have on the system we do not know, and they may have criminal intentions. It will be very difficult to find them.

I wish Home Affairs had the powers to be able to see what people’s intentions are. Unfortunately we can’t claim powers that we don’t have. We cannot know which people do have criminal intentions and which don’t. But those who are already known and who are on the list will show.

Regarding the security at the Lesotho border, you are right. It’s not just the security and whether people are being searched, it’s also the fact that even the documents that Basothos produce are not really proper documents, and we have discussed this matter in the department and we have agreed that we are going to engage Basothos whilst also looking at our own side, because unfortunately there are agreements that were reached with the government of Lesotho that allow some of those things to happen.

There is an agreement by which you are given a six-month permit to come and go any time without even being scrutinised by the immigration officer. It’s an agreement that is in operation. There is another one that we are stalling and which we are going to renegotiate, but that is in operation, so we have agreed as a department that we are going to review and then sit down with the Basothos and discuss the issue.

But we are going to do that with other countries as well, just to see how we can tighten up our security, not only for 2010, but in general, because we have found out that people fly via O R Tambo to Lesotho, they get those pieces of paper from Lesotho and then they come in as Basothos. So, it is a problem. We have identified it and we are trying to deal with it.

And I’m happy that hon Members of Parliament have visited these posts. We should discuss these issues and share ideas on how to strengthen our security and also how to review some of the agreements that we already have with them in order to, whilst allowing freedom of movement, not undermine security. Thank you.

Particulars regarding suspension and investigation of certain persons 165.  Ms H N Makhuba (IFP) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:


  (1)   (a)(i) When and (ii) why were certain persons (details
       furnished) suspended;

  (2)   whether they were suspended with full pay; if not, what is the
       position in this regard; if so, what was the total cost to her
       department;


  (3)   whether the investigation and disciplinary process against the
       said persons were finalised; if not, why not; if so, (a) when
       and (b) what was the outcome;


  (4)   what was the total cost to her department for salaries which
       were paid to all suspended officials pending the finalisation of
       their disciplinary procedures for the 2008-09 financial year?
                              NO1878E

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, Hon member, on 10 September 2007 there were indeed charges that were brought with regard to the individuals concerned. One was charged for undertaking overseas trips without proper authorisation, and also failure to follow proper procedures on procurement. The charges against the other related to failure to follow proper procurement procedures.

When these people were suspended, I suppose it took time to finalise the case and since they were suspended with full pay, costs were incurred. In the end there was an agreement to give one a severance package, while the other one resigned. The total of the severance package was R1 172 288; plus the resignation for the other was R873 319, 89. That was the cost of the suspension plus the severance package and the resignation, because the other one decided to resign instead of defend the case. Those were the expenses. And this happened in 2007. Thank you.

Ms H N MAKHUBA: Deputy Speaker, thank you, Minister, for your response. The concern here is that the longer it takes for the disciplinary procedures to be finalised, the more the department is incurring costs in the form of salaries to people who are no longer adding value to the objectives of the department. The sooner the disciplinary procedures are finalised, the better it will be for the department.

I would just like to ask the Minister if there are any measures in place by the department to detect malpractices by department officials earlier. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I agree with the hon member; the shorter the process, the better. But at the same time there are processes that have to be followed, because if short cuts are taken, we might end up not being able to achieve what we want to achieve. There are stipulations, for example a number of days to be given to a person, a number of witnesses that the person may require at the hearing, etc. I agree with you, but at the same time procedures have to be followed.

Yes, as in any other department, there are measures in place. Whether the measures are adequate is another question, but there are measures in place. There is an internal audit committee; there is an internal tender committee; there is an audit committee and other measures in place, as in any other department. Thank you.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr G G BOINAMO: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the relevance of skills offered by FET colleges and how these skills contribute to the growth of the country’s economy and come up with possible solutions.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House - 1) debates whether or not measures taken by government to address the escalating problem of domestic violence and violence against women have been effective; and

 2) whether or not additional or alternative measures should be
    considered.

Mr P F SMITH: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House –

 1) debates service delivery protests taking place in various
    municipalities around the country. There are 51 and the number is
    rising according to government’s response to an earlier IFP
    question. It is the highest number since the new local government
    system was established in 2000;

 2) also debates government’s failure over a number of years to
    recognise and respond to the formative causes of the crisis we are
    facing; and

 3) discusses the validity of government’s spin doctoring and its
    refusal, in public at least, to recognise that there is indeed a
    crisis in local government.

Mrs S P KOPANE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the unacceptably long delay in the implementation of the National Child Protection Register as well as the national sex offences register and come up with possible solutions to fast-track the implementation of this vital service.

                             HYDROGRAPHY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House –

(1) notes that hydrography is the art and science of charting the ocean floor, the directions and intensities of ocean currents and ensuring that ships can navigate safely whilst at sea;

(2) further notes that the oceans and the atmosphere do not have boundaries, making international co-operation critical in exchanging data, products, capacity-building and skills transference – all necessary conditions for effective management of a maritime area;

(3) acknowledges that according to Britain’s National Hydrographer, Rear Admiral Ian Moncrieff, despite “… difficulties in retaining a small qualified staff, South Africa’s Hydrography Office is regarded as a mature centre of expertise in this region”; and

(4) congratulates South African Navy Hydrographer, Captain Abri Kampfer, a recipient of the Alexander Dalrymple Award this year on his outstanding work in world hydrography.

Agreed to.

           DEATH OF OLGA KEKANA IN SAPS SHOOTING INCINDENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs M N MATLADI: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House - (1) notes the unfortunate and regrettable death of Olga Kekana on Sunday in Mabopane in Pretoria when the police apparently mistook her for a hijacker. Andrew Singo and Sofie Kgagara were also shot during the same incident;

(2) further notes that, according to the Independent Complaints Directorate, it seems to have been a case of mistaken identity. The police were allegedly following up on a stolen hijacked vehicle, a grey Toyota Corolla, which they had tracked to a nearby filling station. When the driver stopped his vehicle and tried to get out shots were fired at his vehicle;

(3) also notes that, although the UCDP strongly feels that tougher action should be taken against violent criminals, it still condemns the act of shooting without careful verification; and

(4) notes that this unfortunate incident would have never happened if the police were more thorough in the follow-up of their leads. We hope that this never happens again and our condolences go out to the family and loved ones of the lady that was killed. We also wish those who were injured a speedy recovery.

I thank you. Mr C T FROLICK: Madam Deputy Speaker, we do have a practice in Parliament that motions without notice will be circulated to all political parties. We in the ANC did not receive that motion without notice, and as such, at this moment, we cannot support it.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Very well, the motion will then be taken back, circulated and then we will come back to it again at a later stage.

The House adjourned at 17:07. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Correspondence on nomination of candidates for Human Rights Commission

   On 22 September, the National Assembly nominated a number of candidates including Adv L K B Mpumlwana for appointment as Commissioners to the South African Human Rights.

   On 1 October 2009 I wrote to the President of the Republic of South Africa requesting him to delay the appointment of Adv Mpulwana until such time as the National Assembly has had an opportunity to reconsider the nomination, in view of certain matters that were brought to the attention of the National Assembly during the debate on the nomination of these persons.

2. Membership of Committees

   (1) The following changes have been made to the membership of committees:

     PC on Human Settlements
   
     Discharged:
   
     ACDP
   
     Dudley, Mrs C
   
     PC on Social Development
   
     Appointed:
   
     ACDP
   
     Dudley, Mrs C (Alt)
   

3. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

   1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the South African
      Weather Service for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP 107-2009].
   
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the iSimangaliso
      Wetland Park for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   

   2) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the National
      Prosecuting Authority (NPA) for 2008-09, including the Report of
      the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 116-2009].
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Debt
      Collectors for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   

   3) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration:

   a) Register of Debt Collectors in terms of section 12(1) of the
      Debt Collectors Act, 1998 (Act No 114 of 1998).
   

   4) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises for consideration and report. The Reports of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Denel (Proprietary) Limited
      for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on
      the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09.
   
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of Alexkor Ltd for 2008-
      09, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   

   (5) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Scientific
      and Industrial Research (CSIR) for 2008-09, including the Report
      of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP 117-2009].
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the Academy of Science
      of South Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09.
   
   (c)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Research
      Foundation for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   

   (6) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the Armaments
      Corporation of South Africa Limited (Armscor) for 2008-09,
      including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Group
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP
      56-2009].
   

   7) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of Blind SA for 2008-09,
       including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the National English
       Literary Museum for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (c)      Report and Financial Statements of the Natal Museum for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP 179-2009].
   
   
   (d)      Report and Financial Statements of the
       Msunduzi/Voortrekker Museum for 2008-09, including the Report
       of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09 [PR 137-2009].
   
   
   (e)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Arts
       Council for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 181-2009].
   
   
   (f)      Report and Financial Statements of the Freedom Park Trust
       for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (g)      Report and Financial Statements of the Market Theatre
       Foundation for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 43-2009].
   
   
   (h)      Report and Financial Statements of the Luthuli Museum for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP 160-2009].
   
   
   (i)      Report and Financial Statements of Artscape for 2008-09,
       including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
       Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP 188-
       2009].
   
   
   (j)      Report and Financial Statements of the Afrikaans Language
       Museum and Monument for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP 61-2009].
   
   
   (k)      Report and Financial Statements of the Iziko Museums of
       Cape Town for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 155-2009].
   
   
   (l)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Film and
       Video Foundation for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP 150-2009].
   
   
   (m)      Report and Financial Statements of the Northern Flagship
       Institution for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 42-2009].
   
   
   (n)      Report and Financial Statements of the William Humphreys
       Art Gallery for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.
   
   
   (o)      Report and Financial Statements of the Performing Arts
       Centre of the Free State for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP 218-2009].
   
   
   (p)      Report and Financial Statements of the Pan South African
       Language Board for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.
   
   
   (q)      Report and Financial Statements of the War Museum of the
       Boer Republics for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.
   
   
   (r)      Report and Financial Statements of the Nelson Mandela
       Museum for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for
       2008-09 [RP 129-2009].
   
   
   (s)      Report and Financial Statements of the Kwazulu-Natal
       Performing Arts Company (trading as the Playhouse Company) for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (t)      Report and Financial Statements of the South African
       Library for the Blind for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (u)      Report and Financial Statements of Business and Arts South
       Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
       Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP138-2009].
   
   
   (v)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Museum -
       Bloemfontein for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.
   
   
   (w)      Report and Financial Statements of the Robben Island
       Museum for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for
       2008-09 [RP 180-2009].
   
   
   (x)      Report and Financial Statements of the South African State
       Theatre for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 57-2009].
   
   
   (y)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Library of
       South Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 215-2009].
   

   8) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Consumer
      Tribunal for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Regulator
      for Compulsory Specifications (NRCS) for 2008-09, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for the seven-month period ending 31
      March 2009 [RP 153-2009].
   

   9) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the Accounting
      Standards Board for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 63-2009].
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the Office of the Ombud
      for Financial Services Providers for 2008-09, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   (c)      Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and
      Fiscal Commission (FFC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 183-2009].
   
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the Public Investment
      Corporation Limited for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 59-2009].
   

   10) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 6 – Government
      Communication and Information System (GCIS) for 2008-09,
      including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
      Statements and Performance Information of Vote 6 for 2008-09
      [RP194-2009].
   
   
   (b)      Report and Financial Statements of the National Electronic
      Media Institute of South Africa (Nemisa) for 2008-09, including
      the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
      and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   

   11) The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on Labour for consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth, Children and People with Disability. The Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund
      (UYF) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   

   12) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 18 - Department of
      Correctional Services for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 197-2009].
   

   13) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education for consideration and report. The Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council for
      Educators for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   

   14) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration for consideration:

   Report of the Public Service Commission (PSC) on the Management of
      Job Applicants with a Criminal Record in the Public Service [RP
      20-2009].
   

   15) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and report:

   a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
      and the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative
      Region of the People’s Republic of China concerning Mutual Legal
      Assistance in Criminal Matters, tabled in terms of section
      231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
   
   
   (b)      Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between the
      Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of
      the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s
      Republic of China concerning Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal
      Matters.
   
   c) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
      and the Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative
      Region of the People’s Republic of China concerning the
      Surrender of Fugitive Offenders, tabled in terms of section
      231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
   
   
   d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between the Government
      of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Hong
      Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of
      China concerning the Surrender of Fugitive Offenders.
   
   
   e) Report on the provisional suspension of a magistrate: Mrs N E
      Ndamase, an additional magistrate at Pretoria in terms of
      section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of
      1993).
   
   
   f) Report on the provisional suspension of a magistrate: Mr C M
      Dumani, a magistrate at Graaff Reinet in terms of section
      13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).
   

   16) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration:

   a) Report on the upliftment of the provisional suspension of a
      magistrate: Ms A Bacharam, an additional magistrate at
      Scottburgh.
   

   17) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements for consideration and report. The Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the Servcon Housing
       Solutions (Pty) Ltd for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09.
   

   18) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   (a)      Report and Financial Statements of Vote 27 - Department of
      Land Affairs for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      of Vote 27 for 2008-09.
   

   19) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture and Portfolio Committee on Tourism. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the International Marketing
      Council (IMC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP 134-2009].
   

   20) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Medical
      Schemes for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09 [RP 67-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the National Health
      Laboratory Service for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 14 - Department of
      Health for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
      14 for 2008-09 [RP169-2009].
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Commissioner
      for Occupational Diseases in Mines and Works for 2008-09,
      including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
      Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   e) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Medical
      Research Council (MRC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP174-2009].
   

   21) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Ingonyama Trust Board for
      2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
      [RP172-2009].
   

   22) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training and the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology. The Report of the Auditor- General is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Technology and Human
      Resources for Industry Programme (Thrip) for 2008-09, including
      the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
      and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   

   23) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel
      Authority (TCTA) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the Water Research Commission
      for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP
      130-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 34 - Department of Water
      Affairs and Forestry for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information of Vote 34 for 2008-09 [RP163-2009].
   
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National
      Biodiversity Institute for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP165-2009].
   
   
   e) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National
      Parks (SANparks ) for 2008-2009, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP148-2009].
   

   24) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee of Justice and Constitutional Development:

   a) Proclamation No R.50, published in Government Gazette No 32494,
      dated 14 August 2009: Commencement of sections 8 to 10 of the
      Judicial Matters Second Amendment Act, 2003 (Act No 55 of 2003).
   
   
   b) Government Notice No R.841, published in Government Gazette No
      32494, dated 14 August 2009: Scale of fees payable in respect of
      matters referred to in section 80 of the Attorneys Act, 1979
      (Act No 53 of 1079).
   

   25) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of South African Drug-Free Sport
      for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements for 2008-09 [RP 99-2008].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 17 - Department of Sport
      and Recreation South Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of
      the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information of Vote 17 for 2008-2009 [RP 152-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of Boxing South Africa for 2008-
      09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
      Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   

   26) The following paper is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and to the Portfolio Committee on Communications:

   a) Report of the Auditor-General on an investigation at the South
      African Broadcasting Corporation [RP 237-2009].
   

   27) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 22 - Department of
      Safety and Security for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information of Vote 22 for 2008-09 [RP 204-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 20 – Independent
      Complaints Directorate (ICD) for 2008-09, including the Report
      of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information of Vote 20 for 2008-09 [RP234-2009].
   

   28) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Energy Research Institute (Pty) Ltd for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.

   b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council for
      Natural Scientific Professions for 2008-09, including the Report
      of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the Human Sciences Research
      Council (HSRC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP 184-2009].
   
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the Africa Institute of South
      Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09.
   

   29) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and report.

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Advisory Council
      on Innovation for 2008-09.
   

   30) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 31 - Department of Science and Technology for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 31 for 2008-09 [RP236-2009].

   31) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Municipal Demarcation
      Board for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09 [RP207-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 29 - Department of
      Provincial and Local Government for 2008-2009, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information of Vote 29 for 2008-09.
   

   32) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Corporation for Public
      Deposits for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial Services Board
      for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
      [RP201-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Reserve
      Bank for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2008-09.
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Revenue
      Service (Sars) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP238-2009].
   
   
   e) Report and Financial Statements of the Collective Investment
      Schemes for 2008-09 [RP202-2009].
   
   
   f) Report and Financial Statements of the Sasria (Ltd) for 2008-09,
      including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   g) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 7 – National Treasury
      for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote 7 for
      2008-09 [RP198-2009].
   
   
   h) Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Regulatory
      Board for Auditors for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP156-2009].
   
   i) Report and Financial Statements of the Office of the Pension
      Funds Adjudicator for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09.
   
   
   j) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial Intelligence
      Centre for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09 [RP162-2009].
   
   
   k) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 11 - Statistics South
      Africa for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
      11 for 2008-09 [RP211-2009].
   
   
   l) Report and Financial Statements of the Bank Supervision
      Department of the South African Reserve Bank for 2008.
   

   33) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs for consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture. The Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Commission for
      the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural,
      Religious and Linguistic Communities for 2008-09, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP212-2009].
   

   34) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 24 - Department of
      Communications for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      of Vote 24 for 2008-09 [RP 209-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Post Office
      (Ltd) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
      Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09.
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the Universal Service and
      Access Agency of South Africa (USAASA) for 2008-09, including
      the Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
      of Universal Service and Access Agency of South Africa (USAASA)
      and the Universal Service and Access Fund (USAF) for 2008-09
      [RP222-2009].
   

   35) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 16 - Department of
      Social Development for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information of Vote 16 for 2008-09 [RP225-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the National Development
      Agency for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09 [RP 58-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Social
      Security Agency (Sassa) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP 29-2009].
   

   36) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Energy for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration.

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Nuclear
      Regulator (NNR) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP 36-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the Electricity Distribution
      Industrial Holdings (Pty) Ltd (EDIH) for 2008-09, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP220-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the Central Energy Fund Group
      of Companies (CEF) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial
      Statements and Performance Information of the Central Energy
      Fund Group of Companies for 2008-09 [RP186-2009].
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of the National Energy Regulator
      of South Africa (Nersa) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP177-2009].
   
   
   e) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Nuclear
      Energy Corporation Limited (Necsa) for 2008-09, including the
      Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
      Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP141-2009].
   

   37) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Mining for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor- General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Mine Health and Safety
      Council (MHSC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
      General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
      for 2008-09 [RP8-2009].
   
   
   b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Diamond and
      Precious Metals Regulator for 2008-09, including the Report of
      the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information for 2008-09 [RP132-2009].
   
   
   c) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Geoscience
      (CGS) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
      on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
      09 [RP 55-2009].
   
   
   d) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 28 - Department of
      Minerals and Energy for 2008-09, including the Report of the
      Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
      Information of Vote 28 for 2008-2009 [RP 240-2009].
   
   
   e) Report and Financial Statements of the Mintek Group for 2008-09,
      including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
      Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP27-2009].
   
   
   f) Report and Financial Statements of the State Diamond Trader for
      2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
      Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
      [RP178-2009].
   

38) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance:

    a) Address of the Governor of the South African Reserve Bank - 17
       September 2009.


    b) Government Notice No.892, published in Government Gazette No
       32546, dated 31 August 2009: Determination of interest rate for
       purposes of paragraph (a) of the definition of ‘‘Official rate
       of interest’’ in paragraph 1 of the Seventh Schedule, in terms
       of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962).


    c) Government Notice No R.918, published in Government Gazette No
       32582, dated 25 September 2009: Exchange Control Regulations:
       Cancellation of appointment of an authorised dealer in foreign
       exchange - Commerzbank Aktiengesellschaft in terms of the
       exchange control regulations.

39) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and
    report. The Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the
    Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Human
       Rights Commission for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP65-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 21 - Department of
       Justice and Constitutional Development for 2008-09, including
       the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
       and Performance Information of Vote 21 for 2008-09 [RP189-2009].

40) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    International Relations and Cooperation for consideration and
    report. The Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the
    Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 3 – Department of
       Foreign Affairs for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       of Vote 3 for 2008-09.


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the African Renaissance and
       International Co-operation Fund for 2008-09, including the
       Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09.

41) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Arts and Culture for consideration and report. The Reports of the
    Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts
    for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Heritage
       Resources Agency (Sahra) for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP 184-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Arts and
       Culture for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
       09.


    c) Report and Financial Statements of the Windybrow Centre for the
       Arts for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
       the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP192-2009].


    d) Report and Financial Statements of the National Heritage Council
       for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP242-2009].

42) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Trade and Industry for consideration and report. The Reports of the
    Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the
    Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 32 - Department of Trade
       and Industry for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       of Vote 32 for 2008-09 [RP 18-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Support Programme for
       Industrial Innovation (SPII) for 2008-09, including the Report
       of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09.


    c) Report and Financial Statements of the Competition Commission
       for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP53-2009].


    d) Report and Financial Statements of the Companies and
       Intellectual Property Registration Office (Cipro) for 2008-09,
       including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
       Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP115-2009].

43) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries for consideration and report.
    The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are
    referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the Agricultural Research
       Council (ARC) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP199-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Perishable Products
       Export Control Board (PPECB) for 2008-09, including the Report
       of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09.


    c) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 23 - Department of
       Agriculture for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       of Vote 23 for 2008-09 [RP210-2009].


    d) Report and Financial Statements of the Onderstepoort Biological
       Products (Ltd) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.


    e) Report and Financial Statements of the Ncera Farms (Pty) Ltd for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09.


    f) Report and Financial Statements of the National Agricultural
       Marketing Council (NAMC) for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP192-2009].

44) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Public Service and Administration for consideration and report. The
    Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on
    Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 8 - Department of Public
       Service and Administration for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information of Vote 8 for 2008-09 [RP190-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the State Information
       Technology Agency (Pty) Ltd (Sita) for 2008-09, including the
       Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and
       Performance Information for 2008-09 [RP47-2009].

45) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Defence and Military Veterans for consideration and report. The
    Reports of the Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on
    Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 19 – Department of
       Defence for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
       19 for 2008-09 [RP193-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Castle Control Board for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP165-2009].

46) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Public Enterprises for consideration and report. The Reports of the
    Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee on Public
    Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Forestry
       Company (Ltd) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Airways
       (Pty) (Ltd) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent
       Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.

47) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Public Works for consideration and report. The Reports of the
    Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the
    Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 5 – Department of Public
       Works for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
       5 for 2008-09.


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Development
       Trust (IDT) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP 200-2009].

    c) Report and Financial Statements of the Construction Industry
       Development Board (CIDB) for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP 233-2009].


    d) Report and Financial Statements of Agrément South Africa (ASA)
       for 2008-09, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on
       the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
       09.


    e) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for the Built
       Environment (CBE) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.

48) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Higher Education and Training for consideration and report. The
    Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the Committee on
    Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the Council on Higher
       Education (CHE) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09.

49) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Human
    Settlements for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-
    General is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for
    consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 26 - Department of
       Housing for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
       26 for 2008-09 [RP136-2009].

50) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Transport for consideration and report. The Reports of the Auditor-
    General and the Independent Auditors are referred to the Committee
    on Public Accounts for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company South
       Africa (Ltd) (ACSA) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and
       Navigation Services Co Ltd (ATNS) for 2008-09, including the
       Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
       and Performance Information for 2008-09.


    c) Reports and Financial Statements of the Ports Regulator of South
       Africa for 2007-08 and 2008-09, including the Reports of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2007-08 and 2008-09.


    d) Report and Financial Statements of the Railway Safety Regulator
       (RSR) for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-
       09 [RP 158-2009].


    e) Report of the Regulating Committee of the Airports Company of
       South Africa and Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company for
       2008-09.

    f) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National
       Roads Agency Limited for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP145-2009].


    g) Report and Financial Statements of the Road Traffic Management
       Corporation for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-
       General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
       for 2008-09 [RP170-2009].


    h) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Search and
       Rescue Organisation for 2008-09.

    i) Report and Financial Statements of the Urban Transport Fund for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP217-2009].


    j) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Civil
       Aviation Authority (SACAA) for 2008-09, including the Report of
       the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09.
    k) Report and Financial Statements of the Road Accident Fund for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP221-2009].


    l) Report and Financial Statements of the Passenger Rail Agency of
       South Africa (Prasa) for 2008-09, including the Report of the
       Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance
       Information for 2008-09 [RP157-2009].

51) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Home Affairs for consideration and report. The Reports of the
    Auditor-General are referred to the Committee on Public Accounts
    for consideration:

    a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 4 - Department of Home
       Affairs for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General
       on the Financial Statements and Performance Information of Vote
       4 for 2008-09 [RP239-2009].


    b) Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral Commission for
       2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP60-2009].


    c) Report and Financial Statements of Film and Publication Board
       for 2008-09, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
       Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-09
       [RP224-2009].

52) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Communications and the Committee on Public Accounts:

    a) Letter from the Minister of Communications dated 30 September
       2009 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, explaining the
       delay in the submission of the Annual Report of Icasa for 2008-
       09.

53) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Correctional Services for consideration and report:


    a) Report and Financial Statements of the Judicial Inspectorate for
       Correctional Services for 2008-09 [RP132-2009].

54) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade
    and Industry for consideration:

    a) Strategic Plan for the Companies and Intellectual Property
       Registration Office (Cipro) for 2009-10 – 2011-12.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The President of the Republic

a) Report and Financial Statements of The Presidency for 2008-2009,
   including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
   Statements and Performance Information for 2008-2009.

1. The Minister of Higher Education and Training

Report and Financial Statements of the National Student Financial Aid
   Scheme for 2008-2009, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
   the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2008-2009.

National Assembly

1. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development

SUBMISSION OF LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL: MEMORANDUM IN
TERMS OF RULE 238 OF THE RULES OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
BY THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL
DEVELOPMENT:


The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development is
hereby requesting the permission of the House in terms of Rule 230(1)
for the introduction of the following legislation in the House:


(a)     Purpose of the Bill
    The purpose of the bill is to amend the Repeal of the Black
    Administration Act and Amendment of Certain Laws Act, 2005, in
    order to substitute a date.


(b)     Objects of Bill


    1. Section 1(3) of the Repeal of the Black Administration Act and
         Amendment of Certain Laws Act, 2005 (the Act), provides that
         the remaining provisions of sections 12 and 20 and the Third
         Schedule of the Black Administration Act, 1927 (Act No. 38 of
         1927), will be repealed on 30 December 2009 or on such date as
         national legislation to further regulate the matters dealt with
         in these provisions has been implemented, whichever occurs
         first. These sections deal with the judicial functions of
         traditional leaders.


    2. The Traditional Courts Bill, which regulates the matters dealt
         with in sections 12 and 20 and the Third Schedule of the Black
         Administration Act, 1927, is currently before the Portfolio
         Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development. It is
         foreseen that the Traditional Courts Bill would not be signed
         into law by the deadline of 30 December 2009. The Bill
         consequently intends extending the date of the application of
         the provisions of sections 12 and 20 and the Third Schedule of
         the Black Administration Act, 1927 to 30 December 2010.


    3. The same deadline has been determined in section 1(2), (4), (5)
         and (6) of the Act in respect of legislation which is
         administered by other Departments, namely the Department of
         Rural Development and Land Reform and Cooperative Governance
         and Traditional Affairs. These deadlines are, likewise, being
         extended from 30 December 2009 to 30 December 2010.


(c)     Financial Implications for the state


    The proposed legislation will not lead to any expenditure for the
   state.