TUESDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2009 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The House met at 15:03.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery has agreed that we won’t have any motions. We will now proceed with questions as printed on the Question Paper.

Before we start, may I please notify all hon members that there is a special request that we first address questions directed to hon Shiceka because he has to leave for Bloemfontein immediately.

The time allocated to reply to questions is 5 minutes, asking a supplementary question is 2 minutes, replying to supplementary questions is 4 minutes, and only 4 supplementary questions are allowed per question. QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

                             GOVERNANCE
                              Cluster 3

MINISTERS:

Investigation into complaints of water disconnections in the Western Cape

1. Mr M H Mokgobi (ANC) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

 (1)    Whether his department has received public complaints of water
       disconnections by any municipalities in the Western Cape; if so,


 (2)    whether his department has made an investigation into any
       complaints or allegations of water disconnections by
       municipalities in the Western Cape; if not, why not; if so, what
       was the nature of the findings of the investigation;


 (3)    whether his department has put any measures in place in respect
       of dealing with such complaints or allegations if they are found
       to be accurate; if not, why not; if so, what measures; and


 (4)    whether his department has communicated the findings of the
       investigation to the Western Cape Provincial Government; if not,
       what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the
       relevant details?
       CO169E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, colleagues, members of the House, it is the first time that I come and respond to questions. At the same time, I see that my colleague Madam Ntwanambi has a fresh look in terms of her hair. [Laughter.] Clearly, it tells me then that things are changing.

The question I am expected to respond to is the question of … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): May I correct one mistake. We are starting with hon Mokgobi.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Yes, thank you very much.

With regard to the issue of the Western Cape, I was informed by hon member Marius Fransman about the issue of water cuts in this metro municipality. Subsequent to that I went to speak in an interview that was held on Parliament: A View from the House on SABC 2, where people raised the same issue - that water had been cut.

After that I was invited by the community of Mitchells Plain. When I went there, I found something that was shocking to my system. I discovered a situation where water had been cut and was still being cut at that particular time by the metro. I found that to be very strange because it is unconstitutional and illegal for anybody not to provide water to the citizens of this country.

From there I also went to the community of Site C in Khayelitsha, where about 5 000 people in the centre of the City of Cape Town Metro Municipality don’t have any sanitation. There are no toilets. When they have to relieve themselves, they must go to the veld or to the N2 road. This is happening in the City of Cape Town Municipality. I also found that this community of 5 000 people has only four water taps.

We also went to another area called Lwandle, where people are living in new houses. However, these are waterlogged houses, which basically means that they are living in water in that area. People therefore experience a lot of illnesses because of the conditions they live in. During rainy days water from the gravesite flows into the houses of the people.

Subsequent to that I then established an intergovernmental task team, led by Mr Jazz Mokoena, to look at the issues. The task team comprises the provincial government and the metro municipality. I have seen propaganda in the media where it is alleged that ANC members cut water before I arrived. That is propaganda to us. The task team has been requesting people to come forward and provide evidence regarding the water that has been cut so that we can deal with the issues.

When I was there, I also saw excessively high water bills. We said that the team from the national government, the provincial government and the municipality must look at the matter. We told them to work together in finding out where the problem is so that they can ask for solutions. As the Ministry, we are not interested in petty political issues. We are rising above those. Our task is to focus on service delivery. Our task is to ensure that we improve the quality of the lives of our people.

However, people must understand that we won’t spare any effort against anybody from any party, including the opposition. If there is any wrong doing by the opposition, we will deal with them without fear, favour or prejudice. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEBHUNGA: Sekela-sihlalo, ndiyabulela. Mphathiswa, ingaba olo phando luzakuqhubekela nakwezinye iilokishi zomasipala ombaxa ngoba asiyoKhayelitsha kunye ne-Mitchells Plain kuphela? Ukuba ungaya eGugulethu, abantu abaninzi baphethe iileta ezipinki, baphethe amaphepha okucinyelwa amanzi.

UMPHATHISWA WESEBE LENTSEBENZISWANO KULAWULO KUNYE NEMICIMBI YEMVELI: Ndiyabulela kakhulu, Mbhexeshi oyiNtloko. Xa uthetha ngolo hlobo, uJazz usemva kwakho ngoku sithethayo. Into eza kwenzeka ke ndiyacinga ukuba kuza kufuneka sibize iimbizo zoluntu apho umntu nomntu akuthi eze ngaphambili aze kuchaza ingxaki yakhe. Loo nto iyakwenza ukuba singakhawulelani nale ngxaki yalapha ngokwamasuntswana koko sikhawulelane nayo ngokupheleleyo.

Kodwa into endifuna ukuyithetha yile yokuba kukho inkampani apha ekuthiwa yi-Empowerdex ezibiza ngokuba ingumakhonya, ingungqoshishilizi, ejonga ukusebenza kukamasipala. Ithi ke lo masipala umbaxa waseKapa usebenza kakuhle. Andikayiboni loo nto. Into endiyivileyo mna enye endiza kubiza kuyo bonke oomasipala abambaxa balapha eMzantsi Afrika sizokuthetha nabo yile yokuba imali yalo masipala umbaxa iya kubantu abadla kusale, abantu abadla izambane leponti. Abantu abahluphekileyo, iimpula zikalujaca azifumani nto.

Loo nto ke ithetha ukuba siza kungena kulo masipala. Akekho umasipala esiza kumyeka apha eMzantsi Afrika. Sifuna bonke oomasipala basebenze ngendlela efanayo. Asiyonyani into yokuba kuthiwe iKapa lisebenza kakuhle, ndingatsho mna. Izinto esele ndizibonile okwangoku zindixelela loo nto. Ngolo hlobo ke bathi iTheku alisebenzi kakuhle. Asiyonyani loo nto. ITheku liqhuba ngendlela entle ngokungummangaliso ukuba ulithelekisa nezinye iindawo. Ndiyabulela Sekela-sihlalo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thank you Deputy Chair. I would like to know, Minister, if this investigation will also be extended to other townships of the City of Cape Town, because this problem does not only occur in Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain. You can go to Gugulethu and you will find most people have pink letters. They are holding papers because their water supply has been cut off.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chief Whip. If you speak like that, then Jazz is right behind you. We need to call the izimbizo so that every resident may come forward with his or her problem. That will happen if we deal with this problem as a whole instead of in drips and drabs.

There’s something I want to say about this self-glorifying company called Empowerdex that oversees the performance of municipalities. It claims that the City of Cape Town is doing quite well. I have not witnessed that. The only thing I have heard, on which I still have to call all South African metropolitan municipalities to a discussion, is that the budget of this particular metropolitan municipality caters only for the middle-class society, the bourgeoisie, leaving the poorest of the poor with absolutely nothing.

That means we will make an intervention in this municipality. There is no municipality here in South Africa that will be spared. We want uniformity in all the municipalities. It is not true that the City of Cape Town is doing well, and I do not concur with that. What I have seen so far confirms that.

In the same breath, they say eThekwini Municipality is underperforming. That is not true. EThekwini Municipality is doing very well compared to other municipalities. Thank you, Deputy Chair.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon Watson, what is your point of order?

Mr A WATSON: It’s not a point of order; it’s a follow-up question.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Follow-up?

Mr A WATSON: Yes.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Okay, thanks.

Mr A WATSON: Deputy Chairperson, I would like to hear the response of the hon Minister in the light of the following facts. Firstly, the City of Cape Town has a clear policy forbidding officials from cutting off water to residential properties; secondly, the City of Cape Town has the largest free water allocation for the poor in the whole of South Africa; thirdly, the City of Cape Town’s records show that it logged and responded to all 90 of the complaints of water failure it received over the past three months from the Mitchells Plain area; and further, there is no hard evidence of residents being deliberately left without water for extended periods.

What action has the Minister taken in response to the sworn affidavits by Mitchells Plain residents? What action has the Minister taken regarding the statements made by Mitchells Plain residents that are recorded in the paper and interviews by the media that ANC activists actually asked them to shut off their water at the stopcock ahead of the Minister’s visit to the area in order to mislead him about water cuts? This was reported in the paper and I want to ask the Minister to respond to that, please.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon Watson, before you respond, Minister, that’s a new question. When I allowed you to speak it was supposed to be a follow-up question. So, really, you were out of order. [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: Follow-up question, Madam. [Interjections.] You can’t stymie it by ruling it out of order.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Watson! I’m warning you.

Mr A WATSON: I accept that warning. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Watson! I’m not going to be involved in a dialogue with you, thank you very much. [Interjections.]

Can you please check that one? Just check it.

Minister Shiceka, please respond.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, let me respond to the hon Watty. Regarding the issue of the allegations that are made by the leader of the DA that alleged ANC members told people to cut water, I would request the DA as a party to bring forward the people whom it alleges presented that information to the team led by Mr Mokoena. We want to check the veracity and truthfulness of these allegations. We want to get to the bottom of them. Therefore, we don’t want to prejudge this from our side.

But when I went there personally, I saw things that were shocking to me. If you are challenging the validity of what I saw, you are welcome. There is a team that has been put in place, and it is investigating. Present evidence in front of it. It’s not about papers; it’s about people who must present evidence. On the basis of evidence, this team will be able to make recommendations to me.

However, what we must be careful of, Watty, is to be involved in petty politics on issues of service delivery. We must rise above those because we have a responsibility to improve the quality of lives of our people. That’s what I would say. You will know about the report once it is finalised. It will be presented to you, and I think we will take it from there.

However, what has come across very clearly is the issue that the credit control policy in South Africa is not in place in all municipalities. It’s not only the credit control policy, but the policy on the indigent is also not applicable. I say this because some of the people who had their water supply cut are disabled; some of them rely on grants; and some of them are old people who don’t have any income. Clearly, there are challenges in that regard. Therefore, we are saying that this matter of Mitchells Plain has exposed the fact that policy changes have to be effected. We must ensure that South Africans get the best because they deserve the best. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon Mokgobi was supposed to be the first person. May he then have his turn?

Mr M H MOKGOBI: Deputy Chairperson, I had four questions which have already been answered by the Minister. Thank you.

Mr Z MLENZANA: Deputy Chairperson, will the Minister be prepared to give us the names of those houses he visited during his inspection?

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chair, of course we will be able to reveal everything about this matter after the investigation has been conducted. We don’t want anyone to pre- empt the due process that has to be undertaken by going there. We must allow that process to take place.

In that respect, therefore, I will give you the names with pleasure, but only once the investigation has been conducted. This is because we are accountable to Parliament. We believe that Parliament is the most important body which will be able to do so. In fact, we will be calling upon the NCOP as the body that will be charged with looking after the interests of South Africans wherever they are. The NCOP should also enter the fray and go and hear for itself what is being said on the ground. They will strengthen what is being done by the executive. Thank you.

  Situation regarding municipal Integrated Development Plans (IDPs)

1. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

   (1) Whether since taking office his department has conducted and/or received any assessments, reviews or audits of the municipal Integrated Development Plans (IDPs) in each of the provinces; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so,

   (2) whether he has identified or received any reports and/or complaints of (a) municipalities that do not (i) have IDPs and (ii) conduct IDP hearings, (b) disparities between municipal, provincial and national strategies, priorities and plans and (c) IDPs that are not informed by budgets and available resources; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, how will his department address these issues; and

   (3) whether his department will consider requesting such reports from all provinces and report to the National Council of Provinces on the state of the IDPs in the provinces on an annual basis; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO170E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, this is a question that has been raised by the Chief Whip.

On the issue of integrated development plans, IDPs, I can inform the House that the department conducts assessments of IDPs on an annual basis. We have done that from April to June and found that 85% of IDPs are credible. This is an improvement over the previous year in which we found that the level of credibility was 79,5%. This means that we are moving forward.

However, one could say that there are still challenges. One of the challenges is the issue of the link between IDPs, provincial growth and development strategies, as well as national priorities. There is also the involvement of national departments, provincial departments and state-owned enterprises in the IDPs. They do not participate. If they do participate at all, they send junior officials. This is a situation we want to improve, because we believe that IDPs are the cornerstone of any development. If it is not in the IDPs, it cannot be implemented. We believe that IDPs must be like the Torah to the Jews, the Qur’an to the Muslims and the Bible to the Christians. It must be something that is followed by all. We are trying to create that type of coherence.

We are also looking at a situation where even other government departments can play their role in the same way that municipalities do in ensuring that this process is taken care of. This is because there is a disjuncture between IDPs within municipalities with regard to priorities and the budget – how these are linked and implemented.

We will be working with the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission to ensure that these things are done so that in South Africa there is one planning system and a framework that is followed by all wherever they are, including state-owned enterprises and the private sector.

In that respect, this process of IDPs is quite important. It is going to be given credibility. We believe that if legislative amendments must be made to strengthen it, we will come to the NCOP and to Parliament to assist in that respect. Thank you very much.

Mr M H MOKGOBI: Madam Deputy Chairperson, I would like to ask the Minister if he doesn’t think that the link between IDPs, the budget and the implementation plan should also be a document which will actually be taken seriously and be monitored by his department. As it stands now, you find that municipalities only submit budgets and IDPs and not the budget and the service implementation plan. Thank you.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, what one can say is that this is an issue of concern, even to us. IDPs are supposed to be plans of action. A plan of action is supposed to be credible and should not become a wish list. It is supposed to be something that is implementable. That is why we came up with a concept that says we must have a service delivery budget implementation plan so that a dynamic link can happen.

Of course, we find that people are still using consultants in some municipalities. That is why you still find a situation where people are protesting. This is because they feel that they are being excluded in the way they are being governed; they want to partake. They feel marginalised because only consultants are doing the work. But if people were included in the development of plans and programmes for development, they would feel part of it. We believe that we are coming with revolutionary ideas even on issues of ward committees. These are ideas that are going to give power to the people as we go forward, because we believe that governance must happen at a ward level. This is the lowest level at which things are supposed to happen. This means that the way in which things are being done is going to change dramatically.

You would know that on 21 and 22 October last week we had a national indaba on local government. A lot of serious changes that must be made in the system emerged at that indaba. Those changes are going to be effected, because we will be concluding a turnaround strategy by December this year. We will be taking municipal draft turnaround strategies to each and every municipality for engagement next year, from January to March. We are going to have a situation wherein people will participate in the issue of IDPs at ward level so that, by June, when budgets are being adopted, there would have been involvement of the people of South Africa. Therefore, when the budget is being implemented in July, people will know that it is the budget they have participated in.

Members of Parliament all hail from municipalities. We are requesting them to participate in the areas where they live. We can’t expect Members of Parliament to complain as if they are ordinary citizens. You have a responsibility and a duty to ensure that municipalities are functioning better where you are. Sometimes even when you want things for selfish, narrow interests as a citizen of a particular area — where you want to have water, electricity and so on — you have a political responsibility to ensure that all of the people in that area also benefit from those interests.

In this respect, we request everybody to work together. We believe that local government is everybody’s business. We can’t deal with it alone, as a department. We require all South Africans to come and join the party. Thank you.

     Details regarding the abolition of district municipalities

1. Mr D A Worth (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs: (1) Whether district municipalities are to be abolished; if so, (a) when is this envisaged to take place and (b) what are the further relevant details;

   (2) whether the existing councillors from the district municipalities will be incorporated in the surrounding municipalities; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether the functions and powers will be given to the local municipalities; if not; why not; if so, what are the relevant details; and

   (4) what is the estimated savings expected in respect of abolishing district municipalities? CO179E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, the issue raised by hon Worth is whether district municipalities are going to disappear from the face of the earth. In response I would say that the national government has been involved in a process of reviewing the system of governance in South Africa. We call this the macroreorganisation of government. Cabinet is still engaged in this process of review. Therefore no decision has been taken by Cabinet on this matter. Subsequent questions therefore fall away, because the first question implied that we did not have any views on these matters. We can promise you, as South Africans and as Members of Parliament, that once Cabinet has pronounced on these matters, everybody will be taken on board. We want to ensure that you participate in the reorganisation of governance.

This is quite important, because it might require constitutional amendments at certain times and legislative amendments at others. You must therefore be party to this process. Thank you very much, Chairperson.

Mr D A WORTH: Deputy Chair, as a follow-up to the question, I would like to ask the hon Minister whether he foresees this consultative process regarding district municipalities taking place before the 2011 municipal elections.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, our point of view is that we don’t think that there will be any reorganisation of the local government before the 2011 elections. The reason for this is that we, at the Ministry, are required to devise a formula to be used by MECs to determine the number of municipalities. That formula is based on the current configuration. We did this in May. MECs have already pronounced the number of councillors. This means that it is “all systems go”. As we speak here today, nothing can actually be changed. It therefore means that any changes that might happen will happen after 2011.

However, discussions are going to take place. South Africans are going to participate and say what they think about the country’s system of governance.

Once Cabinet has pronounced in this regard – and we hope this is going to be done next year – we will then be able to allow South Africans to engage in the process because we believe that they are important. Members of Parliament will be the most important persons to engage with this process. Thank you.

Mr A WATSON: Madam Deputy Chair, in view of what the Minister has just said – that no restructuring will take place before 2011 – I would like to ask him whether I can assume that the demarcation done by the Municipal Demarcation Board for two municipalities in the Metsweding District Municipality, Nokeng tsa Taemane and Kungwini – which, according to the demarcation board’s present demarcation, have been included mostly into the Tshwane Metropolitan area but also into Ekurhuleni – is an exception or whether it will also be dealt with after the election. This is because if one looks at the present demarcation, these municipalities will actually be incorporated into Tshwane and Ekurhuleni before or by the date of the 2011 election, thereby diminishing the Metsweding District Municipality.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Watty, yes, the issues of Metsweding as a district in the east of Pretoria – Tshwane is the new term, if you want to be politically correct – were decided in 2006. The demarcation board at that time took the view and decision that the municipality or district does not justify its existence in terms of numbers or any other criteria. As we speak, the MEC in Gauteng is considering intervening in one of the municipalities, Nokeng tsa Taemane. The other municipality, Kungwini, has been investigated, and the report has been released. The management of this municipality has actually caused it to struggle and limp along. Therefore that decision was taken some time ago. But the process of engagement is ongoing.

Another municipality that might incidentally be affected if anything happens is a municipality in the Alfred Nzo district in the Eastern Cape. There are only two municipalities in that district — the Umzimvubu Local Municipality and the Matatiele Local Municipality. If the majority of the people are of the view that they want to be incorporated into KwaZulu- Natal, it means that there will be no justification for the existence of that metropolitan municipality if it has one municipality; it will have to be reconfigured in some way.

So, the two areas we have mentioned are exceptional cases. Generally the system is in place and it is moving. We are looking forward to the elections.

I want to conclude by saying that the Cabinet took a decision last week around issues of preparations for local government elections and the system which will be used. We want to share this with members of the NCOP, because issues of delimitation of wards are at the centre of what they do. Members of the NCOP are supposed to participate in these processes because, more often than not, these processes become technical; they do not involve Members of Parliament. Therefore, we want to call upon Members of Parliament to participate in this process. We will make information available so that you are able to contribute to the way wards are designed in the area where you reside. Thank you very much, Chair.

Measures to eliminate problems of municipal managers occupying positions in the majority party that are senior to Executive Mayors and Speakers of Municipal Councils

1. Mr A Watson (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

 In light of the launch of Operation Clean Audit, what measures does he
 intend to introduce over the (a) short term and (b) long term to
 eliminate the problem of municipal managers occupying positions in the
 majority party structures that are senior to Executive Mayors and
 Speakers of Municipal
 Councils?
        CO181E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I’ll be responding to hon Watty, where he raised an issue around the leaders who are speakers, mayors and chief whips. You find that, in terms of the rankings of the party, they are junior. Therefore, they are instructed. This distorts the system of governance where you find that officials begin to instruct their bosses in the council. The respect for the institution gets undermined.

In this case, one would say that the matter, hon Watson, is something that is applicable across parties. If you can go to KwaZulu-Natal under the IFP, the same thing applies. If you can come to the Western Cape under the DA, the same thing applies. It is even worse here because you have coalitions that change from time to time. [Interjections.] People go to bed with different partners at different times based on the coalition system of governance. This also applies to areas where the ANC rules.

We are, in fact, developing what is called governance values. We want to say that all South Africans, irrespective of political affiliation, must live by these values and live according to these values. It means that even the ruling party and other parties are going to be engaged on these values so that we can follow them, be united behind them and rally behind them as South Africans, in terms of what should be done.

But it is a matter of concern to us that the institution of local government is being interfered with by political parties. At times they give illegal, unconstitutional instructions. This is a matter we want to take up with the parties so as to ensure that the institution remains respected and enjoys legitimacy and accountability in the way things are done. We will be engaging with the parties.

I have already indicated this to Mr Doman, who is a shadow Minister for Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, to Madam Wenger, who is a shadow Deputy Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and also to other parties that we will be engaging with on these matters. I have even spoken to the IFP’s national chairperson and told her that we will be taking up the issue.

I am saying that South Africans must rise above petty politics and know that local government is something that affects everyone; it’s quite important. So, let’s ensure that we do things in the right way, not for ourselves but for our children and future generations. Thank you very much.

Mr A WATSON: Hon Chair, I would like to thank the Minister for a very frank and honest answer to my question. But my question had two parts, hon Minister — namely the long term and the short term. What you have given us now is an exposition of your plans and interactions in the long term. But in the short term, our findings are that particularly in municipalities where strife and riots are the order of the day and of course where, in terms of my question here that referred to Operation Clean Audit, there have been no clean audits forthcoming for some time, this type of political interference is taking place at this very moment.

You have a short-term plan to deal with instances like these in the interim, whilst interventions are taking place by the MECs and whilst the NCOP is conducting visits to ascertain whether interventions are acceptable or not – whichever party it may be? Will it become clear that the strife and bad governance in that municipality is because of officials interfering with executive decisions because of their political superiority?

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, hon Watson. Of course, we have short-term measures. One of the short-term measures is the fact that we are intervening decisively in areas where we hear about this. I will tell you that we received a report where in one province, that I am not going to mention, the municipal manager was about to be suspended last week. This was because she refused to implement a legal instruction. This was done by a junior official who is a senior member of the party. We dispatched a team, led by the Deputy Minister and other officials, to go to that place. They reversed the situation, and everything is going well. We want to be a responsive government. We must act if we hear anything; we must be there on the ground and deal with the situation. To illustrate that, hon Watty, the department is going to be divided into provinces. This is because we believe that one cannot run 283 municipalities — working with all nine of the provinces — while being in Tshwane. We don’t know what is happening on the ground. We must therefore ensure that we are at the provincial level.

I am saying that we are intervening. If you hear anything, you have the right to communicate with us. My cellphone number has not changed; it remains the same. We will be there on the ground, dealing with the issues. We don’t want to allow a situation where the power, prestige and authority of a municipality is undermined. If we allow this to happen, we will regret what we have done over time. We must stop the rot before it gets worse. Thank you very much.

Action taken against municipal managers who have failed to comply with performance agreements

1. Mr D A Worth (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

   Whether any action has been taken against any municipal managers who have failed to comply with their performance agreements; if not, why not; if so, how many municipal managers have been dismissed and/or suspended in the (a) 2008-09 financial year and (b) from 1 April 2009 up to the latest specified date for which information is available? CO182E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Madam Deputy Chairperson, regarding the issue of municipal managers we have conducted an assessment to check the vacancy rate relating to municipal managers. We know as a matter of fact that about 78% of positions of municipal managers have been filled. This is a marginal improvement on the 72% vacancies filled. Only 12% of vacancies have not been filled. This is the situation even with regard to section 57 managers, who make up the 78%. We have not carried out assessments of municipal managers according to whether they are performing well in terms of performance agreements.

Secondly, we have not been able to look at municipal managers that have not done their work. This is an ongoing process and something that we are looking at on an ongoing basis. Once the information in this regard is available, we’ll be able to present it to you. We have not checked to see if there are any municipal managers that have not complied with their performance agreements. However, again, this is an ongoing process. Thank you very much.

Mr D A WORTH: Deputy Chair, I’d like to ask the Minister a follow-up question. Firstly, there are many municipal managers that have signed contracts and have certainly not complied with their performance contracts, and yet they get paid or give themselves large bonuses. What is going to happen in this regard?

Another follow-up question is: Are these contracts going to be standardised, for example, for the metropolitan municipalities or according to the grade of the municipality? What is the Minister’s opinion on that? Thank you.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, the issue of municipal managers who have not complied with these contracts but have received bonuses is something we are dealing with on an ongoing basis. At this point in time, we can’t say with authority and confidence that we know for sure that this municipal manager in this municipality has not complied with his or her performance contract. Once we are through with the process, we’ll engage you on it.

However, amongst other things, we want to include in the performance contracts of municipal managers the issue of management of resources, the lack of which gives rise to adverse qualified opinions, including disclaimers. If, as a municipal manager, you get these, you must not get money as a bonus.

We are looking at the possibility of standardisation, so that we are able to compare apples to apples. Of course, different situations prevail in different municipalities. However, overall we want to look at the things they have in common and the ways in which they differ. We don’t want to use a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems.

This system, hon Worth, is evolving, and I think that all of us must be patient and allow it to evolve fully so that it can suit the conditions that obtain, subjectively and objectively, at a given time.

Measures implemented to address poor service delivery by municipalities and action taken to stop fraud and corruption

1. Mr H B Groenewald (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:

 (1)    Whether the government has implemented any measures  to  address
      poor service delivery by municipalities; if not, why not; if  so,
      what are the relevant details;


 (2)    whether any action will be taken to stop fraud and corruption,
      including mismanagement in municipalities; if not, why not; if
      so, what are the relevant details? CO184E

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, the issue of service delivery is a serious challenge. In South Africa we have conducted the state of municipalities. It has been the most comprehensive process that has been conducted to date. This process of the state of municipalities has revealed a lot of things. Amongst other things it has revealed is an issue of the levels of backlogs in each and every municipality and province in relation to water, sanitation, electricity and refuse removal at a broader level. We have come to the conclusion that for South Africa to reach the Millennium Development Goals on sanitation by 2014, we must provide over 600 000 facilities to each and every household every year; for us to ensure that we have universal access to electricity, we must deliver over 300 000 connections to each household every year so that we can reach the 2014 goal; and for us to have access to water in South Africa, we must deliver over 200 000 connections to each household. Therefore, going forward, this requires a lot of resources, and it is something we are engaging upon.

We are looking at these measures to ensure that we accelerate service delivery. We are also looking at these matters in a way that takes us forward. It is not only this; we are also looking at local economic development. We have to broaden the cake because the tax base and revenue of municipalities have declined over time. About 95% of municipalities were told that they should raise their own revenue. This situation no longer obtains. It is a challenge; it is something we are looking at, going forward.

The issue of fraud and corruption is of serious concern to us. We believe that all of us — without exception — from all sectors and structures of our society and all classes, should come together against corruption. In fact, if we had been speaking in another forum we would have been saying that corruption is an antinational democratic revolution, because it benefits a few at the expense of the majority. This is something that must be tackled and dealt with.

We are developing mechanisms in the turnaround strategy to indicate that we are dealing with this. We will be signing a contract and an agreement — a memorandum of understanding — with the Special Investigation Unit led by Willie Hofmeyr. We are interacting and interlocking with the Hawks under Mr Dramat. Therefore, we are going in big time to ensure that we deal with these things. In this respect, we are calling upon all parties to come to the party. If we can manage to stop this rot, we will have also done so for those coming after us. In fact, they will thank us for having been decisive in dealing with these issues. I thank you.

Mr H B GROENEWALD: Deputy Chairperson, I am the one who asked this question. I come from the North West province. In our province, 18 of 23 municipalities are in a bad condition. In your answer you spoke about what is happening in South Africa at this stage and about the backlogs we’ve had. But how are we going to address these backlogs? That is what I want to know.

You also invited us to take part in the whole process regarding fraud and mismanagement, and I really appreciate that. But how are we going to address municipalities which have these backlogs? For example, I know that the people of Tswaing wrote letters to you regarding what is happening in their area. There’s a place named Iraq, where there is only one water tap. A few minutes ago you laughed about the Western Cape, but there is only one water tap. There are no toilets and roads, and a thousand people are flocking together. There is nothing happening from government’s side. So, I want to know what it is that we are going to do to help these people.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, to say that nothing has happened is being a bit liberal with the truth. I will tell you what happened. You know that the issue of water is the responsibility of the district municipality. We found out that R168 million was sitting in the bank of the district municipality called Ngaka Modiri Molema. The mayor in that municipality didn’t have the political will to act. We had to put the mayor aside so that service delivery could take place. We now have an acting municipal manager who is running the municipality as we speak. The acting municipal manager has removed the chief executive officer in that district municipality so that we can go to the municipality.

We have deployed engineers to that municipality and they are working with us. There is a woman called Carrim, who has been very vocal. She even went to the President to raise the issues of Tswaing. We are working with them to solve the issues there. They withheld payment for services and put it in trust accounts. We are discussing the issue of releasing these resources in order to deal with these things. This is the specificity of the Tswaing Municipality issue and the district you were talking about.

Let me come to the North West. North West is the first province to actually open our eyes. From 6 March to 21 April we conducted a thorough investigation, where I was personally involved. We came up with a very seriously telling report, which we are using to turn things around in that province. One of the most important things you must know is that generally the North West does not have water. It is a water-scarce province. We are looking at measures for ensuring that we are able to deal with this at a specific level. But at a broader level I can assure you that the people of the North West deserve better. Currently they are not getting what they deserve.

We are moving in. You will hear about dramatic things, serious things and a decisive leadership in the next few weeks, which is aimed at ensuring that people in that province are getting what they deserve. Therefore, we are telling you to fasten your seat belts for good things to come. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M C MAINE: Deputy Chairperson, the Minister spoke with passion on the issue of service delivery and corruption. But I want to ask the Minister if he and his team are prepared to make an intervention in the Saldanha Bay Municipality, where a municipal manager refused to put a report in front of the council in which 24 senior officers have been implicated in corrupt practices in a tender process.

The other point is about Chatsworth, a cold place in Malmesbury, where people are still using the bucket system. I want to make a plea to the Minister to use his task team to fast-track service delivery in these two places. He should also deal with issues of corrupt practices taking place in the Saldanha Bay Municipality. I thank you. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Baba usho entshweni. Khuluma thina siyashesha. [You have hit the nail on the head, sir. Just say it and we will do it very quickly.]

We will be moving to Saldanha Bay, and you will get the report. We will also move to Malmesbury in the area that you are talking about. MEC Bredell in the Western Cape was once a mayor in that area, and he comes from there. This is an area he is very proud of. We will go and look at the issues there. For more details you can contact Mr Jazz Mokoena on the eleventh floor on the opposite side of the road. You can go and see him. He is available 24/7; you can go and talk to him. He will deal with these issues together with his team. In fact, we are doing what we can. You must come forward with information and judge us on whether we are taking any action. We can promise you that we will spare no effort; we will act. We are not just going to leave bad things as they are. We are encouraging all other members to do the same and follow your example. Even if you have a gripe with the area, it’s all right. You must come with the information and we will act on it. I thank you.

Mnu D D GAMEDE: Sihlalo, uNgqongqoshe uSokude asimbongele ukuthi cha, uyashaya impela futhi ushaya khona. Baze basho bathi banele impela. Ngqongqoshe Sokude ngifuna ukubuza lapha ukuthi uMnyango wakho ingabe ukhona yini okwenzayo ukufundisa imiphakathi ngezindaba zokulethwa kwezidingo? Nokuthi uyalibamba yini iqhaza kulokhu okufanele kwenziwe nguMnyango — ngoba kukhona okunye kufanele kwenziwe umasipala wasekhaya kuthi okunye kufanele kwenziwe umasipala wesifunda? Ikhona yini into eyenziwayo ukufundisa umphakathi ngezindaba zokulethwa kwezidingo nibambisene ninguhulumeni omkhulu, wesiFundazwe kanye nowaseKhaya na? Ngiyabonga sihlalo.

UNGQONGQOSHE KAHULUMENI WOKUBAMBISANA KANYE NEZINDABA ZEZENDABUKO: Baba Magadlela, engakusho ukuthi esikuthola eMnyangweni kunesakhiwo laphaya. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D D GAMEDE: Chairperson, let us be grateful for the hon Minister Sokude because he is very impressive. People have even said that they are really impressed. Hon Minister Sokude, I just want to hear from you whether there is anything that your department does to educate communities about issues of service delivery? And whether it plays a role in delivering services which need its expertise – as there are some services which are the responsibility of local government while others fall under the jurisdiction of a district municipality? Are you doing anything to educate communities about co-operation with regard to service delivery amongst yourselves as national government, provincial government and local government? Thank you, Chairperson.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Magadlela, what I said was that whatever we receive in the department has a structure.]

There is an academy for local government. It is called the Local Government Leadership Academy, Logola. That is a shell academy …

… ngoba baba ayisebenzi leyanto leya. Sifuna ukuyivusa ke manje siyimise ngezinyawo sizokwazi ukufundisa abantu ngezindaba zombuso, hhayi kuphela baba ngentuthuko yomphakathi kodwa sifuna ukufundisa nje abantu bazi ngezigaba ezahlukene zomasipala nang ezigaba ezahlukene zohulumeni abakhona kuleli lizwe lakithi — uhulumeni omkhulu, owesiFundazwe kanye nabaseKhaya; nokuthi ingabe basebenza kanjani. Ukuthi ini yenziwa ubani, kuphi ngoba uma sibona abantu bebhikisha, babhikishela uhulumeni waseKhaya ngoba useduze nabo. Uthola ukuthi ngesinye isikhathi bafuna izidingo ezinganikezwa uhulumeni wasekhaya — njengezindlu nje kanye nokunye okungaqondene nohulumeni wasekhaya. Yingakho-ke ngithanda ukufundisa umphakathi ngalezi zigaba zohulumeni, kanti futhi yinto ebesizitshele ukuthi sizoyenza leyo.

Abanye abantu okudingeka sibafundise ngamakhansela. Si kholwa wukuthi amakhansela nawo adinga ukuqeqeshwa ngoba uthola ukuthi ubukade ungumuntu nje womphakathi kuthi ngakusasa uzibone usuyimeya. Awunalwazi lokuthi kufuneka wenzeni futhi kwesinye isikhathi ucabange ukuthi ukuba yimeya wenza izinto ngendlela othanda ngayo kube sengathi uphethe isiphaza shop. Siyitholile imibiko enjalo kwezinye izindawo — ukuthi uMeya uvele atshele izisebenzi zikahulumeni ukuthi zenze ukuthi nokuthi ngoba efuna ukwenza i- party lapha nenye laphaya. Akazi ukuthi kunento okudingeka yenziwe ukulandela umthetho kuhulumeni basekhaya.

Futhi sifuna nokuqeqesha amakomidi amawadi akhona kanye nama-CTWU. Ngikhuluma nawe nje baba Magadlela sizoqala uchungachunge lokuvakashela izifundazwe sihamba nozakwethu umhlonishwa ubaba uBaloyi . Siyaqala ngeSonto, sizoqala khona lapha eNtshonalnga Kapa, sizobakulendawo izinsuku ezintathu, iSonto, u Msobuluko kanye noLwesibili. Sizobe sihamba noMphenyi Mabhuku Omkhulu kusho ukuthi kuzobe kuyikalishi (Troika) ezobe ihamba lendawo. Sizohlangana ne Khabinethi yesifundazwe sihlangane nama-CTWU sihlangane namakomidi amawodi wonke, namakhosi uma ekhona. Kanti ngizwile ukuthi ubaba uManuel naye kuthiwa yinkosi yamaKhoisan la ekhaya. Naye uzoba yingxenye yaleli thimba simbizele ukuthi azoba yinkosi ekhona.

Sizobe sesihlangana futhi nawo wonke amakhansela akhona esiFundazweni ukuze sixoxe nawo. Yikho esiyokwenza kulolu chungechunge — ukuthi yini abantu abacabanga ukuthi yenziwe ukwenza ngcono ohulumeni basemakhaya. Ngaleyo ndlela-ke Magadlela sithi: cha, baba isilingene, ingangathi ngakho-ke siyobhekana nayo ngqo! Siyinkanka la inamandla ngakhona. Siyibamba ngezimpondo lapho inamandla khona. Ngiyabonga baba. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[… because that thing is not working, sir. We now want to get it on its feet so that we can educate people about governance and not only about community development. We also want to educate people about the different levels of municipalities as well as the different levels of government that obtain in our country – national government, provincial government and local government; and the way they function. We want to educate people in respect of which sphere of government does what and where, because when we see people protesting, they protest against the local government because it is closer to them.

You find that sometimes they demand services that are not rendered by local government – services like housing and others which are not the municipalities’ responsibility. That is why I would like to educate the communities about these levels of government, and that is what we have planned to do.

Councillors also need training, because you find that today you are just an ordinary community member and then the next day you are a mayor. You do not have a clue about what is expected of you and sometimes you think that being a mayor warrants you doing as you please as if you are running your spaza shop. We received such reports from some areas – that a mayor just instructed public servants to do this and that just because he wanted to host a party here and another one somewhere else. He is not aware that there are some processes and procedures that need to be followed in accordance with the Local Government act.

We also want to train the existing ward committees and the CTWUs as well. As I am speaking to you now, hon Magadlela, my colleague hon Baloyi and I will be making a series of visits to the provinces. We will be starting on Sunday, and we will start here in the Western Cape. We will be here for three days, from Sunday to Tuesday. The Auditor-General will also be with us and this means that this place will be visited by the troika. We will meet the Cabinet of the provincial legislature, the CTWUs, all the ward committees and Amakhosi if there are any here. And I heard that hon Manuel is also an Inkosi of the Khoisan people here. He will also be a part of this entourage – we asked him to be an existing Inkosi.

We will also meet with all the councillors from the province to discuss some issues with them. That is what we are going to do during this series of visits – to find out what people think must be done to improve the standard of service delivery from local governments. In that way, hon Magadlela, we are saying that: yes sir, we are equal to the task. We will, therefore, tackle it head on! We attack its stronghold. Thank you, sir.]

Mr D B FELDMAN: Deputy Chairperson, firstly I would like to congratulate the Minister for the work done so far. But I am quite concerned about the issue of empowering people. I was actually wondering if there is any criterion for appointing a councillor or whether the department is working on something like that. Is there any educational programme in place or are we just pumping in money trying to rectify and better our lives? We can pump in money, but if education is not there, it is fruitless.

In as far as ward committees are concerned, which are the grass roots of a municipality, I would like to know from the hon Minister if there is anything on the table or in the pipeline in this regard? We as Cope are prepared to put something on the table. I would appreciate your response. Thank you, Minister.

The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon member, you have raised a question with two parts. Firstly, you asked about whether councillors are capacitated. I think you would know that Ministers work with what they have and that councillors are deployed by political parties. This means that I must use whatever I have in institutions. As I have already indicated earlier on in response to the hon Watty, we are looking at governance values. We would like to ensure from the start that we have a good product with good capacity and quality. Going forward we will be discussing these governance values — how to ensure that things are happening.

On the issue of ward committees I must say that the issue of training in South Africa has been abused. Millions and millions have been spent, but if you look at the outcomes, they are very weak. People are like a duck that enters the water and comes out dry. That is why we want to centralise the whole question of training so that we can look at its quality and ensure that whatever money is spent, is worthwhile — that we get value for money.

Training will be done across the country. Earlier on we discussed that we were going to intensify training. But we must do this in a way in which we will get value for money, so that we can appreciate the product and be proud of it. We are attending to this matter and we would like to ensure that South Africa gets better. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon members, I think I am going to be a bit harsh. The two other Ministers that are supposed to be answering to questions are running out of time. They also have to leave just like Minister Shiceka. So, I hope nobody is going to say I’m being impossible. Thank you.

Thanks very much, hon Minister Shiceka, for all you have said to us. I hope everybody has been taking notes. You are now relieved of your duties. [Applause.]

Challenges facing municipalities and provinces in fostering integrated planning

1. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:

   (1) Whether his department has undertaken an assessment in respect of some of the challenges facing municipalities and provinces in fostering integrated planning between municipalities and provinces; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, how is his department planning to address these challenges to ensure that policies, principles and programmes of municipalities and provinces are informed by national priorities;

   (2) whether he will consider sending such assessment and/or report to the National Council of Provinces by 2010; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO171E Interface of mandate of National Planning Commission regarding national planning and development of Integrated Development Plans (IDPs)

2. Mr R J Tau (ANC) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:

   Whether, since taking office, he had discussions with the Minister or the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs on the interface of the mandate of the Commission regarding issues of (a) national planning and (b) the development of Integrated Development Plans (IDPs) by municipalities; if not, (i) why not and (ii) how does he plan to link these two processes; if so, what are the relevant details? CO172E

 Current planning capacities and competencies of municipalities and
              provinces and assessments in this regard

1. Mr R J Tau (ANC) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:

   (1) Whether the Commission has undertaken any assessment of the current planning capacities and competencies of municipalities and provinces; if so, what are the key areas of concern regarding integrated national planning that will improve the delivery of services to the public regardless of their location and historical background; if not,

   (2) whether such an assessment will be undertaken; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) when and (b) what are the further relevant details? CO173E

Development of line functions and responsibilities of National Planning Commission and how they relate to responsibilities of the Department of Economic Development

1. Mr T Harris (DA) asked the Minister in the Presidency: National Planning Commission:

   Whether the (a) line functions and (b) responsibilities of the National Planning Commission have been developed; if not, why not; if so, how do they relate to the (i) planning and (ii) policy development responsibilities of the Department of Economic Development? CO186

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: Deputy Chair, let me first welcome all the new members. It’s my first time in this House since the NCOP was formed after the elections.

I have a bit of difficulty with the questions, and let me explain why. Four of the questions — one from the Chief Whip, the hon Ntwanambi, two questions from the hon Tau and one question from the hon Harris - all presume that the structures of the planning commission are already in place, and they aren’t. The position right now is that a Green Paper was published and it is being considered as we speak by an ad hoc committee of the National Assembly. They will be holding hearings on it this week. Initially Parliament had asked them to conclude their work by 22 October; clearly they haven’t been able to do so. They have requested an extension, and these matters will have to be resolved before Parliament rises.

In saying that the matters must be resolved, from here the work will require us to receive the initial report from that ad hoc committee, which clearly will deal with some of the issues about structure and operations of the National Planning Commission. We will then go back and publish our responses and thereafter it will be possible to start the work of establishing the institution.

Chances are that we will only be able to advertise all these positions early in the new year and then probably only get the institution up and running by March next year. Until such time we receive the report from the ad hoc committee, it would be, in my opinion, incorrect to presume what will come from the committee. This is because if the submissions that I’ve seen — and I’ve seen about 30 submissions that have gone to the committee — are supported by detailed presentations from the institutions that have made them, then it is almost inevitable that there will be some recommendations that deal with structure and operations.

So, against that backdrop, it’s not that I’m reluctant to answer the questions. I think that members will understand that it would be quite incorrect to try and anticipate what the committee will deal with when in fact the Green Paper, as it says on page 5, is a consultative document. Consultations are now being done on behalf of the Presidency by the ad hoc committee in the National Assembly, and we must allow that process to continue rather than try to short-circuit it. I plead that members understand the circumstances within which I take the position that I do. If this is approved, then I can deal with the one remaining question. Thank you.

UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEBHUNGA: Siyaxolisa Mpthathiswa. Mhlawumbi sicinga ukuba singxame kakhulu, sifuna ukude sibone umohluko phakathi kwangoku nan gokuya. Kodwa eyona nto ibalulekileyo njengokuba uthethile ngento yeGreen Paper, kukuba ungayijonga na into yokuba laa Ndlu ingaphaya ayizi kuyishiya le, ukuze le nkqubo ihambe ngokufanayo? Ndiyayiqonda into yokuba i-NCOP ilandela emva, kodwa ingashiywa ngasemva, kananjalo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows)

[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Minister, we apologise. Perhaps we are in a big hurry because we want to see the difference between now and then. But, the most important thing is, as you have spoken about the Green Paper, whether you can see to it that the other august House will concur with this one, in order to have uniformity within this process? I understand that the NCOP is the second House, but that doesn’t mean it must necessarily be left behind.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: The decision has been taken, and I am concerned about it because it’s quite important that Parliament be heard. The National Assembly ad hoc committee only deals with a part of Parliament. But I think we have to resolve these issues. So, I will talk to the hon Ntwanambi and you, Deputy Chair, later, and see how we can take these issues forward. But we will try and resolve this. I think that we must recognise that it’s a limping approach to Parliament; Parliament is defined as both Houses in the Constitution. Thank you.

Mr D V BLOEM: Deputy Chair, I’m very happy that the Minister has clarified this issue. It’s very senior members of this House who have asked these questions. The Minister is 100% correct that the structure is still in the Green Paper. Thank you very much for that political schooling, Minister. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon Bloem, what is your question?

Mr D V BLOEM: Minister, my question is: Do you agree with me that this is still in the process of a Green Paper? [Laughter.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION: As a democrat, I am compelled to answer a follow-up question. Yes, it is a Green Paper.

If I have your permission and that of the House, Deputy Chair, may I ask that the question by the hon Mokgoro remain and then I can deal with it later.

I think it’s important that we allow the process to continue so that we can understand how the National Planning Commission will work. Amongst the outputs that we will have to deal with are those that the hon Shiceka covered earlier. There must be an alignment between the national plan, the provincial growth and development strategies and the integrated development plans, IDPs. This becomes a fundamentally important task because I have a sense that — and I’m sure that the hon Shiceka wouldn’t necessarily agree with me — the IDPs are developed with the full participation of people. They then get taken away by ward committees, where the people who have participated don’t actually know which of their ideas have been accepted, as there’s very little communication. When budgets are drawn up, they tend not to look at the IDPs, and then the people think that the councillors have done something wrong.

The way in which we engender participation with these matters is something we must consider, because in the Constitution and certainly in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, Act 44 of 2003, where participatory democracy is defined, I think we have a lot of learning to do. But the bigger challenge is getting alignment between these three sets of outputs; that’s important going forward. For now we have to allow the institutions to be developed as per the Green Paper and in terms of the recommendations that will come from the ad hoc committee.

The one issue of concern — and the hon Mokgoro asks about provincial planning commissions and so on — is that we will have a plethora of planning committees and commissions everywhere that won’t talk to each other. The President was, in fact, quite forthright when he said:

We deliver the state of the nation address, and the premiers and the mayors come. Then they rush back to deliver the state of the province addresses and state of the village addresses, the speeches for which have already been drafted. So, it isn’t their part of the state of the nation, it’s just something that’s done.

We’ve lived through this. We’ve lived through RDP, where everybody had RDP offices, and we have lived through other things where everybody had, for example, HIV/Aids offices, gender offices, BEE offices and Asgisa offices. I want to communicate through the hon Mokgoro that we should in fact try and limit the enthusiasm with which we establish these bodies because we don’t want to construct the Tower of Babel. We need a single set of messages about a single plan. Our task is to align. The more offices there are, the greater the risk of misalignment. This I think is something we have to work on. It’s something that we are communicating to the premiers as well, but I think we must all take the message forward because we all have some constituency responsibilities and people ask us about this. Thank you very much.

Assessment of challenges facing people with disabilities in accessing the job market and in the workplace, particularly the Public Service

1. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities:

   Whether her department or the government has undertaken any assessment in respect of challenges facing people with disabilities in (a) accessing the job market and (b) the workplace, particularly in the Public Service; if not, why not; if so, (i) what are the relevant details and (ii) how does her department plan to intervene? CO175E

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, YOUTH, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Mhlalingaphambili, nam ndifuna ukubulela ithuba lokuqala lokuphendula imibuzo ebuzwe ngamalungu ale ndlu. [Chairperson, I would also like to express thanks for this first opportunity to respond to questions raised by members of this august House.]

Can you hear me? [Interjections.] My apologies.

I am thanking the Chairperson for the opportunity given to me today to respond to the questions that have been raised by members of the House.

As you would know, we are in the process of establishing a new department. What I have done was to source information from the Public Service Commission, which released a study on the assessment of disability equity in the Public Service last year January, also reflecting on some of the barriers that are experienced with respect to employing people with disabilities. I would just like to highlight a few. They are as follows: the lack of employment equity plans; inadequate recruitment and retention strategies in the Public Service; links with organisations representing persons with disabilities, which are not optimised; the rehabilitation of public servants disabled as a result of injuries sustained; the allegation that persons with disabilities do not apply for posts; the inability to attract suitable, qualified and skilled persons with disabilities; the reluctance of persons with disabilities to disclose their status; the inadequate management of information on persons with disabilities; management implications associated with employing persons with disabilities; the marginalisation of persons with disabilities by management; and so on. The list is long.

The second point I want to make today is that the Department of Public Service and Administration has developed a Handbook on Reasonable Accommodation for People with Disabilities in the Public Service. The handbook is currently being used in the workplace to respond to issues relating to reasonable accommodation and accessibility. But the question that also arises is whether we are using this handbook to ensure that people with disabilities are assisted to be able to do their work with the support that they need in the workplace.

Furthermore, the department has also developed the Job Access Strategic Framework on the Recruitment, Employment and Retention of Persons with Disabilities in the Public Service, which became operational on 1 April

1. This strategic framework is a Public Service initiative aimed at accelerating the recruitment and employment of persons with disabilities in the Public Service. It also seeks to ensure that issues pertaining to disabilities are mentioned in the Public Service. So, the Department of Public Service and Administration is currently embarking on the roll-out workshops, both nationally and provincially.

Furthermore, when the organogram of the new department is approved, in addition to heading the three branches that will look into issues of women, children and persons with disabilities, we are going to have an additional branch that will look across the public sector and the private sector for compliance. We will create mechanisms of pushing departments to comply with the targets that have been set by government on the employment of persons with disabilities. So, this is still a concern. I think all of us must be mobilised to appreciate the fact that we need to do more to ensure that persons with disabilities participate in the mainstream economy, the Public Service and the private sector.

I have tried my best to respond. The department is still new, and it is still to be established. I am glad that the Minister who is driving the process is here.

Mr D V BLOEM: Madam Deputy Chairperson, it is true that this department is still new. However, in each and every department, there are people dealing with persons with disabilities. Can the Minister tell us how many of these people are there, for instance, in the Police? This question is about assessment. I fully agree that it’s a new department, but the Minister conducted her assessment at least in the past five months. Can the Minister tell us what the assessment is in each and every department? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I think I have responded to the questions that have been asked by the hon member Ntwanambi. I have also gone further to respond on what the department will be able to do when it is established. I don’t know now whether I must go into details of the processes we are undergoing to establish the new department and its capacity. I think that would be unfair on the programme of the House if I were to go into those details. So, I think let’s stop there and then allow the department to be legally established. Thank you.

Mr B NESI: Chair, my question is not really going to be a question because the Minister is saying they are still in the process of establishing the department. The question might be … [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Can you speak into your microphone, please! [Interjections.] Oh, is it far from him? Okay.

You may continue, hon member.

Mr B NESI: My one had a problem.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay.

Mr B NESI: Mine is just a comment because the department is still in the process of being established. What is very important in the process of establishing the department is to look at what other departments are doing about disabled people — look at other departments except for the one that is being established, especially those whose employees get injured at work like in the Police Force and in many others.

The department can also do us a big favour in looking at people who have been injured in the mines, especially those from areas in Transkei who find themselves in very difficult situations today because there are no hospitals to assist them in terms of spinal cord injuries. The workmen’s compensation is nowhere to be found to assist these people. Can the department also link with the workmen’s compensation in the process of establishing itself and also link with hospitals that assist people with disabilities, especially those with spinal cord injuries, so that they can be assisted in the process? It is so frustrating to find that government has put away money all over to assist these people, but then it becomes very difficult for them to access it.

I will write other comments to the Minister so that they can be of assistance to them in establishing the department. But the sooner the department is on its feet, the better. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! That was not a follow-up question but a comment. So, I don’t expect the Minister to answer that. I’m sure she has noted your concern and your inputs.

Mnu D D GAMEDE: Sihlalo. Ngqongqoshe, uma kwenziwa lolo cwaningo, ingabe umnyango wakho uzithinta ngqo yini izinhlaka kanye nezinhlangano zabantu abaphila noku khubazeka njengokulandela isiqubulo sabo esithi: “Akukho okuyokhulunywa ngathi ngaphandle kwethu”; ukuze kubonakale ukuthi lolo cwaningo lwenzelwa bona laba bantu abaphila nokukhubazeka ngesimo nangemsebenzi, kodwa alwenzelwa abantu abangakhubazekile? Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr D D GAMEDE: Chairperson. Hon Minister, when you conducted that assessment, did your department directly consult with the structures as well as the organisations which deal with people living with disabilities in line with their slogan which says: “Nothing about us without us”; so that it can be evident that this assessment is conducted specifically for people who are living with disabilities and their work, and not for people who are not living with disabilities? Thank you.]

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, I appreciate the comments that have been made, and they have been noted. We must emphasise the fact that the critical role of this new department will also be to oversee what other departments are doing in mainstreaming and ensuring that issues of people living with disabilities are addressed. So, that one is in the pipeline as we form the new department.

But, this is also linked to the question that has been asked in terms of the assessment and so on. This is because if one looks at the last 15 years, for instance, as a country we set ourselves a target of 2% for the employment of people with disabilities. What we have achieved thus far is far less than what we sought to do, and it remains at 0,2%. Therefore, we need to work on the kind of assessment that Mr Gumede is talking about so that everybody can come to the party.

We also need to assess the kind of work the private sector is doing. We need to find out how many people with disabilities there are in the private sector, for instance, and what the plans are that they are putting into place and so on. So,…

… ngiyavuma ukuthi lo msebenzi kudingeka ukuthi wenziwe. [… I agree that this job must be done.]

I also wish to emphasise the point that this is not just the responsibility of government, but it is also the responsibility of this House to ensure that it plays its oversight role to ensure that the objectives we have set to ensure that people with disabilities are given the space and the capacity to play a role in the economy and the transformation of our country are met. Thank you.

Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Minister, firstly, is there an audit available on people with disabilities in all sectors or departments and not just an assessment of the overall picture? Secondly, what is the position of your department on advertisements so that different departments can include in their advertisements that persons with disabilities can also apply?

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, I have alluded to the overall picture, even though I may not have gone into detail. In terms of the audit, for instance, the overall picture is that we are not doing well; you can go to any sector, including civil society. We have not made headway with respect to people with disabilities. That’s my response in brief to the question that has been raised by the hon member. Thank you.

Discussions with Setas in respect of training people with disabilities and youth for employment in the Public Service

1. Ms A N D Qikani (ANC) asked the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities:

   Whether since taking office she has had discussions with any Sector Education and Training Authorities (Setas) in respect of training people with disabilities and the youth to equip them for employment in the Public Service; if not, why not; if so, (a) what Setas are currently involved in such an initiative and (b) what is the total number of (i) people with disabilities and (ii) the youth who (aa) are currently identified for placement in the Public Service and (bb) were placed in the Public Service thus far? CO176E

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, the question is whether we have had any discussions with any sector education and training authorities, Setas, with respect to training people with disabilities and the youth to equip them for employment in the Public Service. The reply to Ms Qikani’s question is that since taking office, I have not yet engaged with any Setas. As the hon member is aware, we are still in the process of establishing the department and consulting the sectors under the Ministry. However, we managed to get figures on Setas that provide relevant training for persons with disabilities. So far, the Seta that is currently involved in such an initiative is the Wholesale and Retail Seta, and the total number of people with disabilities that are involved in training programmes is 276.

Furthermore, we are currently working towards a 100% placement of people with disabilities by the Public Service Sector Seta. The number of people with disabilities that have been placed in the Public Service thus far is only 125. I would like you to note that the Seta ran two pilot programmes. One was for people with physical disabilities and the other was for people who are hearing impaired. Owing to the huge success rate of a 100% placement of people with a hearing impediment, the Seta board has recently approved two new projects for people living with disabilities, which they are in the process of rolling out.

Regarding the Health and Welfare Seta, we’ve been informed that the board has approved the plan to employ 10 persons with disabilities as interns at the Health and Welfare Seta every six months. The interns will be trained in administration. They will accompany representatives to conferences, sector meetings, etc. Every effort will be made to place such interns in permanent employment positions within the sector, various government departments and the private sector. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, the Minister is right in saying that she has only been in this position for five or six months. However, regarding the figure that the Minister is quoting — 125 people with disabilities in the sectors — it is a shame. My question is: When will the Minister be ready to give answers to this House? I understand that hers is a new department, but when will she be ready to give answers?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, that’s not a fair question. The Minister has just given you an answer. What more do you want?

Mr D V BLOEM: I won’t go into a dialogue with you, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. The number of people with disabilities employed in the Public Service

1. Ms B P Mabe (ANC) asked the Minister of Women, Children and People with Disabilities:

 (1)    What is the total number of persons with disabilities who are
      employed in the Public Service, categorised as (a) deaf, (b)
      sight, (c) hearing and (d) physically disabled employed as
      Assistant Director, Deputy Director, Director, Chief Director,
      Deputy Director-General and Director-General;


 (2)    whether she considers such figures sufficient; if not, what
      measures is her department putting in place to address the
      situation; if so, what are the relevant details?    CO177E

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Chairperson, the reply to the question is that the information we currently have at our disposal reflects the representation of persons with disabilities as reflected in Persal. The representation, for instance, on assistant director and deputy director levels is not indicated in the table that I am going to be reading. Attached here are Persal statistics as at 30 June 2009 of senior management levels. All other categories will only be available in a little while. I will start with the Eastern Cape in terms of provinces and national departments. If you look at employees with disabilities at senior level in this province, you will find that there are only three of them — one male and two females. The Free State has one male and no females. Gauteng has two males and no females. Limpopo has nine — eight males and one female. Mpumalanga has two — two males and no females. North West has two — two males and no females. The Northern Cape has two — two males and no females. The Western Cape has two — one male and one female. KwaZulu-Natal has no one at all. National departments have 28 — 18 males and 10 females. The grand total is 51, with 37 males and 14 females.

The figures I have run through are certainly not sufficient. In order to address this, firstly, the Department of Public Service and Administration has developed the Job Access Strategic Framework, as I have said earlier, which is a strategic framework for implementation across all departments in the Public Service. There are various outcomes that are expected through the implementation of the strategy. It is envisaged that these intended outcomes will go a long way in addressing a lot of factors that have contributed to the inability of the Public Service to meet its stipulated employment equity targets with regard to people with disabilities. So, these outcomes include, but are not necessarily limited to, the creation of an understanding of the mandate and legal context of the strategic framework that I have referred to. This will be achieved through training on disability management in the Public Service for senior managers, human resource practitioners and disability focal points.

Secondly, we need to ensure the creation of an enabling climate of appropriate attitudes and sensitivities that are accommodative of people with disabilities. This requires that all officials in the workplace attend workshops so that they can understand issues better. This also means that the mind-set in the country has to change so that all of us, without exception, do something better to improve the participation of people with disabilities in workplaces.

We also need to consider reasonable accommodation and accessibility which must be given priority in all planning of departments. This will also involve ensuring that a specific budget is made available for reasonable needs of accommodation for people with disabilities, including assistive devices. As an example, if a blind worker is employed and this person has skills in the workplace, one needs to provide tools needed for this person’s skills. These would include, of course, working with Braille. One can also have someone in the workplace to assist with this person’s movement. Another alternative is to have a guide dog to be with this person in the workplace. This means that the workplace must be conducive to different kinds of accommodative programmes or support processes so that people with disabilities can feel comfortable in the workplace. This is not just about creating job opportunities, but it is also about ensuring that these people are assisted to give their best and that they are given the tools to do so.

Departments should have disability focal persons who are adequately capacitated. We also need to develop different measures of developing skills and capacity among people with disabilities.

Lastly, we need to ensure accessibility to employment and upward mobility, especially by increasing representation at senior management levels through reasonable accommodation in the workplace, skills development, bursaries and other measures. I thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Minister, I gave you a bit of time to finish answering your question. Normally, if a question involves numbers, we allow Ministers time to table those numbers because it takes long to respond to a question like that.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, can I ask the Minister to make sure that we get this information in written form for it to be used by the committee in doing its work.

The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: Certainly, Chairperson — as early as tomorrow.

Mr A WATSON: Chair, in her reply the Minister has — very briefly at the end — also referred to the importance of ensuring accessibility in the workplace. I want to ask her whether that also extends to Parliament and to institutions like legislatures. This is because I sat in a committee meeting this morning, where I observed how difficult it was for a member in an electric chair to find parking in the committee room to be able to participate fully in the meeting. I am referring to S12 next door.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Mr Watson, you should be asking me that question. I don’t know if the Minister is interested in answering this question. The question must be referred to me. I am in charge of Parliament. It is up to you, Minister, if you would like to respond to the question. I will not forbid you to respond if you wish to do so, but the question should actually be referred to presiding officers. I can respond to your question if you want.

Mr A WATSON: Chair, if that is the case, then this also means that this question should be directed to managers in any other workplace and not to the Minister if what you are saying now is true.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! It is quite true.

Mr A WATSON: No.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! You may differ with me. I don’t want to argue with you. But it should be like that in Parliament. If this is not done, then we should do it. This is what the policy says.

Action taken in response to reports from Public Protector, including action on recommendation by Public Protector to review Government tender process

1. Mr T Harris (DA) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

   (1) Whether he has received any reports from the Public Protector in the past twelve months; if so, what was the nature of these reports;

   (2) whether he has acted on any of these reports; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether he or his department has taken any action on the recent recommendation by the Public Protector to review the Government tender process; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO185E

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, the answer is certainly no. We have not yet received any report from the Public Protector during the stated period.

After the question on issues related to the review of the tender processes was posed, the Public Protector made a recommendation that we meet with their office to make a follow-up on the matter even though the report was not available at the time. We also took up this matter with the Minister of Finance so that we could jointly respond to it because it’s a shared responsibility. Therefore, as soon as the report is made available to us, we will certainly share the information. Thank you.

   Steps taken to ensure public servants are issued with name tags

1. Mr M W Makhubela (Cope) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

   Whether any steps are being taken to ensure that all public servants are issued with name tags; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) what steps and (b) how many public servants have already received their name tags? CO192E

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, the answer is yes.

At the moment, as the Department of Public Service and Administration, we are working on consolidating statistics to determine the exact number of public servants who comply with the requirement of wearing name tags. In order to get the exact number of public servants who are wearing the name tags, one needs to be in their areas. Therefore, we have requested the leadership and the executive authorities to provide information about their departments. We in the Department of Public Service and Administration have almost 100% compliance rate on the issue of wearing name tags. We are almost there because there are some newly recruited employees who do not have name tags since the process of acquiring them takes time.

I have sent out a circular to all my colleagues — the executive authority — to make sure that they provide information on compliance in this regard. As soon as this is available we’ll then share it with you. Thank you very much.

 Progress made with regard to support for policy implementation and
                reviewing of policies where necessary

1. Mr M W Makhubela (Cope) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

   Whether any progress has been made in respect of (a) support for policy implementation and (b) reviewing of policies where necessary; if not, why not; if so, (i) what progress and (ii) what are the further relevant details? CO193E

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, the answer is yes. We are making considerable progress with regard to support for policy implementation in the Public Service. We do this through various workshops which we hold every year to remind departments and executive authorities about these policies. By way of example, we do this every year through conferences on Batho Pele, where we reflect on what the policy is, how compliance is supposed to be reached and the resources that are necessary to be able to deal with that.

For issues around gender mainstreaming, we have conferences every year to remind departments that this is a policy that has to be complied with. Even when it comes to issues around the question that hon members were asking in as far as the appointment of people with disabilities is concerned, we have those engagements every year so that we can see ourselves moving government’s current 0,2% actual performance rate to the 2% that is required. So, we do remind government departments to deal with issues related to policy implementation. Thank you very much.

Training of employees as health and wellness practitioners with reference to Minister’s 2009-2012 Medium-Term Strategic Plan

1. Mr M W Makhubela (Cope) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

   Whether, with reference to his 2009-2012 Medium Term Strategic Plan (details furnished), the training of the 400 employees as health and wellness practitioners has started; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO194E

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, the answer is yes. The training started in 2008 and is still continuing. As part of the response to the HIV and Aids pandemic, the Department for Public Service and Administration made a commitment to regional bodies such as SADC and the Southern African-Netherlands Chamber of Commerce, Sanec, to train 400 managers and practitioners annually in HIV and Aids mainstreaming.

The following is planned for 2009-10 to reach the target of 400 managers and practitioners in the Public Service. HIV and Aids mainstreaming training has taken place from August 2009 and is expected to be completed by February 2010. One hundred and twenty practitioners and managers will be trained during the last week of this month - the week of 26 to 30 October.

The target and period of training for 2011-12 will be determined soon during the next strategic and operating planning sessions. So, that is the position. We do train managers in as far as mainstreaming HIV and Aids at the workplace as public servants is concerned. Thank you.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

The Council adjourned at 16:58. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                      THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2009

TABLINGS

National Council of Provinces

1. The Chairperson

(1)     The President of the Republic submitted the following letter
    dated 19 October 2009 to the Chairperson of the National Council of
    Provinces, informing Members of the Council of the extension of the
    employment of the SA National Defence Force for a service in
    fulfillment of the International Obligations of the Republic of
    South Africa towards the Government of the Republic of Mozambique
    in support of the national elections on Mozambique:

    EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE FOR SERVICE
    IN FULFILMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE REPUBLIC OF
    SOUTH AFRICA TOWARDS THE GOVERNMENT OF MOZAMBIQUE IN SUPPORT OF THE
    NATIONAL ELECTIONS IN MOZAMBIQUE


    This serves to inform the National Council of Provinces that I have
    employed the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)
    personnel, for service in fulfilment of the international
    obligations of the Republic of South Africa towards the Government
    of the Republic of Mozambique, in support of the national elections
    in Mozambique.


    This employment is authorised in accordance with the provisions of
    section 201(2)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South
    Africa, 1996, read with section 93 of the Defence Act, 2002 (Act No
    42 of 2002).


    40 Members of the SANDF will be employed from 21 October 2009 until
    05 November 2009.
    I will communicate this report to members of the National Assembly
    and wish to request that you bring the contents hereof to the
    attention of the National Council of Provinces.


    Regards
    signed
    J G ZUMA

(2)     Report of the Parliamentary Oversight Authority (POA)

Report of the Parliamentary Oversight Authority on proposed policy on Parliament’s Budget, dated 25 August 2009 The Parliamentary Oversight Authority, after having considered and agreed on the proposed policy on Parliament’s Budget, wished to report as follows:

1. CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE

The mandate of Parliament determines its reason for existence. It is the origin of the institution, and is based on the provisions of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, establishing Parliament and setting out the functions it performs.

The Constitution sets a single, sovereign democratic state where governance is effected through parliament, the Executive and the Judiciary. In the Republic the legislative authority is vested in Parliament, the executive authority is vested in the President, and the judicial authority is vested in the Courts. Parliament’s role and ultimate outcome is to represent the people and ensure government by the people under the Constitution, as well as represent the provinces in the national sphere of government.

The Constitution provides that Members of Cabinet are accountable collectively and individually to Parliament and must provide Parliament with full and regular reports concerning matters under their control. Parliament may pass national legislation to regulate the manner in which executive proclamations, regulations and other instruments of subordinate legislation must be tabled and approved in Parliament. Parliament must maintain oversight over all security services. Through national legislation, Parliament must establish a treasury and prescribe measures to ensure both transparency and expenditure control in each sphere of government, including the remuneration of persons holding public office. National legislation must also regulate the South African Reserve Bank, the imposition of provincial taxes and establish structures to facilitate intergovernmental relations and settlement of intergovernmental disputes. Parliament must approve international agreements unless these are of a technical, administrative or executive nature. International agreements become law in South Africa only when enacted into law by national legislation, except self-executing provisions of an agreement.

The Constitution requires the National Assembly to elect the President and permits it to remove the President, by passing a motion of no confidence in the President. It may also pass a motion of no confidence in the Cabinet. If the President is unable to fulfill the duties of the office, and no member of Cabinet is able to fulfill those duties, the Speaker of the Assembly, until Assembly designate one of its other member, must act as President. The President must remove a judge in respect of which the Judicial Service Commission makes the necessary finding and the National Assembly calls with the support of two thirds of its members for such removal. The Assembly must recommend persons for appointment by the President to the institutions supporting democracy and may resolve to remove such persons from office.

The National Council of Provinces must approve and regularly review an intervention by the national executive in provincial administration; and, in certain instances, may set aside intervention by a provincial executive in local government.

This mandate is achieved through the passing of legislation, overseeing government action, the facilitation of public involvement, co-operative government, and international participation.

As part of the mandate, Parliament is required to pass legislation that makes it possible to amend money bills and therefore the budget of the country. Parliament must move with speed to capacitate itself in order to manage the processes leading to amendment of money bills and actually pass such legislation.

Section 31 of the Powers & Privileges of Parliament Act 91 of 1963, as repealed by Section 31 of the Powers, Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act 4 of 2004 states that the control of the expenditure and the appropriation of moneys for the services of Parliament shall be vested in the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, and his/her authorisation for such expenditure and appropriation of moneys, as well as receipts issued by the accounting officer referred to in subsection (2) on his/her behalf, with reference to all matters affecting those services shall, notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in any law but subject to the provisions of this section, be taken to be in all respects good, valid and effectual.

In respect of the budget of Parliament, the view is that the interaction between the Executive and the Presiding Officers needs to be better structured to reflect the status and role of Parliament as an institution that exercises oversight over government actions. In this regard, it is believed that it can only be correct to accommodate Parliament’s needs as part of the top-sliced portion of revenue as agreed by the Presiding Officers and the Treasury Committee.

1. MISSION OF PARLIAMENT

The mandate of Parliament provides direction to set the mission, indicating the purpose of Parliament and describing its main business. The mission is:

  As the freely elected representatives of the people of South Africa,
  our mission is to represent, and act as a voice of the people, in
  fulfilling our constitutional functions of passing laws and overseeing
  executive action.

The mission indicates the core business of Parliament, also known as the function of Parliament.

1. CORE OBJECTIVES

The core objectives are: • To pass legislation (laws) • Scrutinise and oversee executive action (oversight) • Facilitate public participation and involvement in the legislative and other processes • Participate in, promote and oversee co-operative government • To engage in, participate in, and oversee international relations

The outputs for the core objectives include bills passed, questions put to the executive, annual reports tabled and scrutinised, public participation facilitated, participation in international forums and organisations, approved international agreements, appointed public office bearers, and discharged statutory functions.

In order to enable Members of Parliament to fulfill their Constitutional functions, Parliament provides support and administrative services clustered in Divisions.

The following services are provided: • The National Assembly Table Division provides Members of the National Assembly with procedural advice and guidance for proceedings (tablings, plenary sessions and House Rules) and related administration services.

  • The National Council of Provinces Table Divisions provides Members
    of the National council of Provinces with procedural and legal
    advice for proceedings (tablings, plenary sessions and House Rules)
    and related administration services.


  • The Legislation and Oversight Division provides services for the
    introduction of bills, the publication of order papers, ATC’s and
    House minutes, research and administrative support for committees,
    provision of interpretation and translation services, and the
    production and the official record of Parliament (Hansard)


  • The Institutional Support Division provides accommodation and
    housekeeping, catering services, artworks management, and
    documentation management.


     • The Human Resources and Corporate Services Divisions provide
       support for human resources and information technology
       respectively.


     • The Office of the Secretary to Parliament provides overall
       management and services for communication, international
       relations, members’ interests, legal affairs, finance
       management, and protection services.

1. VISION OF PARLIAMENT

The vision is:

  To build an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the
  needs of the people and that is driven by the ideal of realising a
  better quality of life for all the people of South Africa.

1. STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES

The strategic objectives are:

          1. Build a quality process of scrutinising and overseeing
             government action, including the development of an
             oversight model, best practice research, preparation of
             legislation and procedure, and the implementation of
             systems and human resource capacity for the functioning of
             this process.
          2. Build a people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs
             of all the people of South Africa, including to provide
             opportunities to deepen democracy, be responsive to
             people’s needs, conduct programmes and projects furthering
             education and information about Parliament, act as the
             voice of the people, include people on the periphery,
             provide access to Parliament, and set up parliamentary
             democracy offices.

          3. Build an efficient and effective institution, including
             improving institutional governance, implement systems and
             technologies, improve human resource capacity, provide an
             institutional culture and communication that enables
             service delivery, and the provision of space, office
             accommodation and facilities. 6.    CAPACITY BUILDING FOR MEMBERS

a) Members’ Capacity

Members are elected by their respective political parties as representatives in Parliament.

S57(2)( c ) of the Constitution states:

‘financial and administrative assistance to each party represented in the Assembly in proportion to its representation’

To this end, Parliament provides this financial and administrative support to political parties directly based on the number of representatives in Parliament and therefore this support is provided indirectly to members of Parliament. This is funded via transfer payments as part of Associated Services and includes Constituency Allowances, Administrative support Allowance and Party Leadership Allowance.

The expenditure that may be incurred by the political party is governed by the policy on political party allowances as was approved by the Presiding Officers in July 2005 after a vigorous consultation process at various fora.

Information at our disposal indicates that there is no effective expenditure, that MPs are not getting the intended support for carrying out their functions, and that the funds are used for political party support rather than member support.

This poses another challenge in that the Auditor-General’s offfice has indicated that it would be implementing a phased-in approach for performance auditing. This would entail that it would evaluate whether Parliament has achieved the targets set and if Parliament indicates that it would expend a certain amount for this administrative support and the financial statements of the political party indicates that it has been expended contrary to the policy and the intended purpose, this could result in an adverse audit opinion.

Another mechanism is needed to fund capacitation of members as transfers to the political parties appear not to be yielding the desired result. One option would be that Parliament directly appoints such staff (executive secretaries) which would be subject to all recruitment requirements of the institution. Consequently the political party allowance will be directed towards addressing party needs and requirements.

Consequently support staff funding for Members will be managed by Parliament based on the proportionate number of Members represented by political parties. It should be noted that this process will start from the 1st April 2009.

  • Support staff for members  i.e. executive secretary


       Executive Secretary will be responsible for the following
       outputs:

• Organising the office of the Member • Typing • Reception duties • Handling appointments • Administrative duties

• Generic training in budget oversight

  We believe that every Member of Parliament must receive generic
  training in budget oversight as part of his or her basic training.
  This has to cut across all committees, be it Portfolio or Select
  Committees.


  In order to oversee the budget allocation it is necessary that an
  understanding of the basis of budget allocations be developed as this
  will impact on the quality of oversight.  This is not currently
  provided in the existing training curricula. Develop and implement
  training programmes for members and support staff in oversight related
  areas.

1. MEMBERS’ FACILITIES

Members’ facilities currently seeks to provide the tools of trade and logistical facilities that enable members to discharge their duties in an efficient and effective manner. The existing facilities also provide for members’ dependants and former members.

S219 of the Constitution appoints a committee that needs to advise the President on the Remuneration of Political Office Bearers, read in conjunction with the Remuneration of Political Office Bearers Act , which determines that the Commission needs to advise the President on the remuneration and resources needed for a Political Office Bearer to discharge their duties. A legal opinion on this matter indicates that resources would include tools of trade and would thus include members’ facilities.

It should further be noted that the members’ facilities policy is being reviewed. However, some facilities result in a tax obligation for members.

As the Income Tax Act is a revenue law, Parliament will engage National Treasury, as required by the Constitution, to consider possible amendments to the Income Tax Law.

Hence any additional facilities required need to be considered as tools of the trade and the resultant tax obligation it would impose on members.

• As part of strengthening the link between public representatives and the electorate, it is proposed that Members of Parliament must have an additional facility that would be used to fly people from their Constituency to the Seat of Parliament in order to participate as observers in debates that impact on their areas and indeed to learn and understand the processes and workings of Parliament. This facility would cater for ten members of an MP’s Constituency to be flown, accommodated and looked after for a reasonable period of time but not exceeding 36 hours once a year.

1. POLITICAL PARTY NEEDS

S57(2)( c ) of the Constitution states:

‘financial and administrative assistance to each party represented in the Assembly in proportion to its representation, to enable the party and its leader to perform its functions in the Assembly effectively.’

• Administrative Capacity
        This is funded through the transfer payments made to political
       parties in terms of the administrative support allowance.  The
       intention of this allowance is to provide for support staff and
       operational cost to the political party.


     • Research attached to each Political Party
        Parliament recognises the importance of this function and in
       this regard provides funding to the political parties to appoint
       researchers as they deem fit.


• Constituency Work / Offices
       Constituency work is funded through the constituency allowance
       and this is paid as a total amount to the political party and
       not to individual members.  This system was introduced to enable
       political parties represented in Parliament to set up an
       infrastructure for the benefit of constituents.


       This allowance has grown significantly since the inception of
       the 3rd Parliament and the table below seeks to demonstrate this
       year on year growth. However, for 2008/09, the allowance
       remained unchanged.

[pic]

In addition to this, members are provided with a Political Office Bearers Allowance.

1. ADEQUATE SUPPORT TO COMMITTEES

It is important to note that Committees are organised both as Clusters and Portfolio/Select Committees.

The current support services to the Committees of Parliament are inadequate for their effective and efficient functioning, particularly regarding their oversight work. There is a lack of continuous highly skilled support due to staff turnover.

As part of the project to enhance support to Committees through re- organisation, which resulted from the survey on the needs of committees expressed by Committee Chairpersons, and phased-in implementation of the oversight model, the following support will be provided to committees:

Portfolio-related training versus the cluster approach

Committees in Parliament are clustered according to thematic content. Support services are presently grouped in clusters for administrative purposes. This means that the administrative clusters must be aligned to the political clusters.

Parliament currently makes provision for individual training. However, there is now an expressed need for Cluster-specific training, which could be presented at individual level as an extension of existing curricula.

In addition to current support (Secretary to Chairperson, one Specialist researcher, Senior Researcher) the following services would be provided to committees, one or more committee secretary/ies per committee and a committee assistant) the following services would be provided to committees.

One Content Specialist per Committee: –

• formulate strategies to undertake effective oversight; • deal with and analyse reports; • analyse policy to inform the committee’s oversight agenda; • analyse and advise on international agreements (currently an area of weakness).

Twelve content advisors were recruited in 2008. However, further recruitment has been halted due to funding shortfalls.

One Subject Librarian per cluster of committees

The recruitment of subject librarians will depend on the availability of funds. The following will be the functions of subject librarians, ie the development of:

• Subject databases; • Library collection; • Relevant journals; • Research networks; • Fact sheets, and • Issue briefs on current topics

The subject specialist librarian contribution will include expertise in the content and selection of the best available, print and electronic information resources as well as linking the information user with the right information source at the right time. Language services to committees is dealt with under languages services.

1. SUPPORT FOR POLITICAL OFFICE BEARERS

Categories of Office Bearers:-

     • Presiding Officers
     • House Chairpersons
     • Chief Whips and Whips
     • Committee Chairpersons
     • Party Leaders

Political office bearers in Parliament are supported by the following:

     • Parliament’s budget makes direct provision for infrastructure,
       such as offices and personnel.


     • The Remuneration of Political Office Bearers Act, which is
       informed by the commission as set out in S219 of the
       Constitution, currently the Moseneke Commission.

To enhance the work of Parliament, the Chairperson of Caucus should be given administrative support. It is proposed that for Caucus Chairpersons to qualify for such support and remuneration, the Caucus must at least comprise ten or more members.

     • Existing policies shall be amended to accommodate administrative
       support for the Chairperson of Caucus.


     • The definition of a Committee Chair should include the
       Chairperson of Caucus subject to the limitation of leading ten
       or more members in a Caucus.

1. ICT - PARLIAMENT 2009 AND BEYOND

Parliament has in the past five years seen a massive investment in information technology of approximately R120m. The emphasis was in the order of importance, as described in the Master Systems Plan:

• To replace obsolete and failing equipment

• Upgrade existing infrastructure and systems, and

• Introduce new systems and technology

The NCOP and the NA Chambers were revamped with modern sound and voting system with computer based touch screen technology. The Chambers were primed and wired for digital and video presentations and receiving TV broadcast signals.

The following services will be provided to Members:

• TV monitors with six internal broadcast channels
• Access to desktop computer or a lap top
• An e-mail address
• Parliamentary content management system (PCMS) will support the
  oversight and legislation process
• Video conferencing facilities
• Unified communication system

Based on the achievement and existence of a modern technology base and platform, the year 2008 was designated as a year to consolidate the IT base and roll out tangible benefits to members of Parliament. This calls for closer interaction between ICT and Members of Parliament. This must take place at two levels, training and articulating needs and exploring solutions.

A forum initiated by House Chairpersons responsible for ICT’s will be crucial in mobilizing members’ support for unified communication, intranet, the parliamentary website, call centre, and the content management system. There are two dedicated computer training facilities and an option of a dedicated one-on-one training for members of Parliament.

The outlook for 2009

     • Political parties can have their own online internal websites
       with information and events updated on a daily basis through the
       internet.
     • Groups and stakeholders can have direct access to parliamentary
       structures to facilitate public participation through the
       website and the video conferencing capability.
     • The streaming of parliamentary proceedings to PC, laptops and
       mobile devices to wherever members are will be possible via the
       intra-net.
     • Committees and Members can use online business planning and
       performance evaluation instruments to evaluate their work.
     • The collaboration between the Parliamentary Communication
       Services and ICT will make the creative packaging and impact of
       communicable instruments with the public more creative and
       innovative and far reaching

1. INTERNATIONAL PARTICIPATION Parliament engages, participates, hosts and oversees international relations in the following activities: • Multilateral institutions. • Bilateral relationships. • Inter-parliamentary conferences (regional and international).

This engagement happens at committee level, institution and outgoing/incoming delegations.

Engagement and participation in multilateral institutions Some of the multilateral institutions that Parliament engages with and participates in are as follows: • Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU); • Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA); • Pan-African Parliament (PAP); • Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC- PF); • ACP-EU • Shoora Council.

The International Relations Section is in the process of developing and restructuring itself into a content-based section in order to:

     • Provide a content based support to Parliament on issues of
       International Relations and the role of Parliament.
     • Recruit and employ more specialised personnel in the field of
       International Relations (multilateralism, bilateral engagement,
       issues of global governance, diplomacy, protocol and
       negotiation)
     • Establish processes and structures that enable members to be
       aware of, and engage in international issues.
     • Strengthen capacity and dedicated support for members, in
       content and logistics, to actively participate in international
       engagements and forums.
     • Enhance Parliament’s oversight role in the negotiation and
       development of international agreements.

1. LANGUAGE SERVICES: HANSARD AND OTHER UNITS

Improvements to Hansard

• Transcripts of members’ speeches are now available hours after
  delivery.  The transcripts need to be checked by qualified sub-editors
  and editors.  In 2006, 33 posts of senior Language Practitioner were
  created to address this deficiency.  The Senior Language Practitioners
  assumed duty in June 2007.  This intervention will make it possible
  for Members’ speeches to be available within 24 hours of delivery.

Hansard publications

The Language Section created and filled 10 new posts of translators to build more capacity in respect of translation of debates.

Capacity to service committees

The section intends to recruit 60 interpreters in the current financial year.

1. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION PROGRAMMES

The Parliamentary Communication Services (PCS) facilitates the involvement of the public in law-making and other parliamentary processes by nurturing an understanding of Parliament and its work through educational and information sharing activities. It also provides a support service to committees in the process of reaching out to communities throughout South Africa as required by the Constitution.

Media Support

Provides general media support to Parliament’s public participation programme. The media coverage is related to the work of Committees, events and activities of Parliament.

• Radio Programme – The radio programme encourages the public to become
  active citizens, by developing awareness and an understanding of
  what’s happening in Parliament, the legislative and other
  parliamentary processes.
• In addition to this, we also provide ad hoc radio coverage in support
  of Committees’ public hearings, and for the various key Parliamentary
  events.
• View from the House
• Shift
• Rights and Recourse
• Parliamentary Website
• In-Session – Parliamentary Publication
     ➢ Aimed at keeping the public up to date with what’s happening in
       Parliament
     ➢ Upcoming public hearings, meetings and oversight visits
     ➢ Distributed nationally via commuter networks, GCIS’
       multipurpose community centers and mailing list.

Parliamentary Democracy Offices

In order to deepen democracy and to realise public participation objectives of Parliament in line with its vision, the Presiding Officers approved a Parliamentary Democracy Offices (PDO’s) pilot project in 2005. The objective of the project is to establish PDO’s in all nine provinces.

     • To increase the points of contact where people can access
       Parliament and inform its work and processes;
     • To create an immediate parliamentary presence in the provinces;
       and
     • To ensure a greater level of efficiency in accessing communities
       and providing ground support for parliamentary programmes.

Currently there are three PDO’s established: Northwest, Limpopo & Northern Cape.

1. INSTITUTIONS SUPPORTING DEMOCRACY

Parliament is in the process of reviewing the report on the chapter 9 institutions with a view to identify immediate and long term support requirements. We need to build Capacity to monitor the work of these institutions. A unit on Chapter 9 institutions will be established in the Speaker’s office.

1. OVERSIGHT MODEL

The Task Team charged with the crafting of the Oversight Model has completed its work. Parliament is preparing itself for the implementation of the Model.

1. LEGAL SERVICES

The Legal Services Office is being restructured with a view to build capacity, to handle both constitutional and legal matters. A process that is aimed at addressing our legal drafting skills and capabilities has been put in place.

As part of this process, the Legislation & Proceedings Unit within the Legislation & Oversight Division will be transferred to the newly created Constitutional & Legal Services Office. It is envisaged that such a move will assist to create synergies and quality outputs.

CREDA INSERT - T091022e-insert2 – PAGES 1155-1160

                       FRIDAY, 23 OCTOBER 2009

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs

(a)     Report and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Inkomati  Catchment
   Management  Agency  for  2008-09,  including  the  Report   of   the
   Independent Auditors on the  Financial  Statements  and  Performance
   Information for 2008-09 [RP 147-2009].

National Council of Provinces

1. The Chairperson

(a)     Statement on allegations of fraud, corruption or any other
    serious malpractices within Thembisile Hani Local Municipality
    (Mpumalanga) in terms of section 106(1)(b) of the Local Government:
    Municipal Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000).


    Referred to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and
    Traditional Affairs for consideration.


(b)     Statement on allegations of mismanagement or any other serious
    irregularities within Koukamma  Local Municipality (Eastern Cape)
    in terms of section 106(1)(b) of the Local Government: Municipal
    Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000).


    Referred to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and
    Traditional Affairs for consideration.


(c)     Statement on allegations of mismanagement or any other serious
    irregularities within Alfred Nzo District Municipality (Eastern
    Cape) in terms of section 106(1)(b) of the Local Government:
    Municipal Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000) .


    Referred to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and
    Traditional Affairs for consideration.


(d)     Termination of Section 139 Intervention in Ditsobotla Local
    Municipality (North West).


    Referred to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and
    Traditional Affairs for consideration.

                       MONDAY, 26 OCTOBER 2009

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Calling of Joint Sitting

   The Speaker and the Chairperson received a message, dated 21 October 2009, from the President, requesting that a Joint Sitting of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces be convened:

   CALLING OF JOINT SITTING OF PARLIAMENT

   In terms of section 42(5) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, read with Joint Rule 7(1)(b) of the Joint Rules of Parliament, I hereby call a joint sitting of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces on Wednesday, 11 November 2009 at 14h00, in order to bid farewell to the outgoing Chief Justice Pius Langa, and to welcome the incoming Chief Justice, Sandile Ngcobo.

   Yours sincerely Signed MR J G ZUMA PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Membership of Committees

The following is the list of the membership of Select Committees. All previous lists are invalid:

1. Select Committee on Education and Recreation (Arts and Culture, Education, Science and Technology, Sport and Recreation)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Social Services (Health, Social Development, Home Affairs)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Economic Development (Economic Development, Energy, Mining)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Trade and International Relations (Trade and Industry, Tourism and International Relations)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Finance

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Appropriations

   (Appropriations and National Planning)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Petitions and Members Legislative Proposals

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development (Correctional Services, Defence and Military Veterans, Constitutional Development, Police) |Member |Province |Party |Responsibility | |Hon. Mr. B. Nesi |Eastern Cape |ANC | | |Hon. Mr. T. M. H. Mofokeng |Free State |ANC |Chairperson | |Hon. Ms. B. V. Mncube |Gauteng |ANC | | |Hon. Mr. L. P. M. Nzimande |KwaZulu-Natal |ANC |Whip | |Hon. Mr. M. H. Mokgobi |Limpopo |ANC | | |Hon. Mr. A. Watson |Mpumalanga |DA | | |Hon. Mr. S. H. Plaatjie |North West |COPE | | |Hon. Mr. J. J. Gunda |Northern Cape |ID | | |Hon. Mr. J. M. G. Bekker |Western Cape |DA | |

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Corporative Governance and Traditional Affairs (Corporative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Public Service and Administration, Traditional Affairs)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs (Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Rural Development and Land Reform, Water and Environmental Affairs)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Women, Children, and People with Disabilities

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Public Services (Human Settlements, Public Works and Transport)

Alternates:

1. Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises

   (Communications, Labour, Public Enterprises)

Alternates:

                      TUESDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2009

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Membership of committees

   1) The following members were appointed to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence on 22 October 2009 in terms of section 2 of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act, 1994 (Act No 40 of 1994):

   Dlodlo, A          (ANC)
   Montsitsi, S D          (ANC)
   

2. Introduction of Bills

   1) The Minister of Finance

   a) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 13 – 2009] (National
      Assembly – proposed sec 77).
   
   
       Introduction and referral to the Standing Committee on
       Appropriations of the National Assembly, as well as referral
       to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in
       terms of Joint Rule 160.
   
   
       In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the
       classification of the Bills may be submitted to the Joint
       Tagging Mechanism (JTM) within three parliamentary working
       days. TABLINGS
   

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

 a) Medium Term Budget Policy Statement 2009 [RP 246-2009].


    Referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for consideration and
    report in terms of section 6(3) of the Money Bills Amendment
    Procedure and Related Matters Act (Act No 9 of 2009) and to the
    Standing Committee on Appropriations for consideration and report
    in terms of section 6(8) of the Act, the committees to confer with
    their counterparts in the National Council of Provinces when
    necessary.


 b) Adjustments Appropriation Bill, 2009 [B13-2009].


    Referred to the Standing Committee on Appropriations for
    consideration and report.


 c) Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure 2009 [RP 247-2009],
    which includes:

   1. Vote No 1 – “The Presidency” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   2. Vote No 2 – “Parliament” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   3. Vote No 3 – “International Relations and Cooperation” –
      Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   4. Vote No 4 – “Home Affairs” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   5. Vote No 5 – “Public Works” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   6. Vote No 6 – “Government Communications and Information System” –
      Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   7. Vote No 7 – “National Treasury” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


   8. Vote No 8 – “Public Administration Leadership and Management
      Academy” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


   9. Vote No 9 – “Public Service and Administration” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  10. Vote No 10 – “Public Service Commission” – Adjustments Estimates,
      2009-2010;


  11. Vote No 11 – “Statistics South Africa” – Adjustments Estimates,
      2009-2010;


  12. Vote No 12 – “Arts and Culture” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  13. Vote No 13 – “Education” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  14. Vote No 14 – “Health” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  15. Vote No 15 – “Labour” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  16. Vote No 16 – “Social Development” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  17. Vote No 17 – “Sport and Recreation South Africa” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  18. Vote No 18 – “Correctional Services” – Adjustments Estimates,
      2009-2010;


  19. Vote No 19 – “Defence and Military Veterans” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  20. Vote No 20 – “Independent Complaints Directorate” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  21. Vote No 21 – “Justice and Constitutional Development” –
      Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  22. Vote No 22 – “Police” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  23. Vote No 23 – “Agriculture” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  24. Vote No 24 – “Communications” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  25. Vote No 25 – “Environmental Affairs and Tourism” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  26. Vote No 26 – “Human Settlements” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  27. Vote No 27 – “Rural Development and Land Reform” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  28. Vote No 28 – “Minerals and Energy” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  29. Vote No 29 – “Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs” –
      Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  30. Vote No 30 – “Public Enterprises” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  31. Vote No 31 – “Science and Technology” – Adjustments Estimates,
      2009-2010;


  32. Vote No 32 – “Trade and Industry” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-
      2010;


  33. Vote No 33 – “Transport” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010;


  34. Vote No 34 – “Water Affairs and Forestry” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  35. Vote No 35 – “Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries” – Adjustments
      Estimates, 2009-2010;


  36. Vote No 43 – “Water Affairs” – Adjustments Estimates, 2009-2010.

      Referred to the Standing Committee on Appropriations for
      consideration and report.

1. The Minister of Police

(a)     Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) for July
   2008 to December 2008, in terms of section 18(5)(c) of the Domestic
   Violence Act, 1998 (Act No 116 of 1998).

National Council of Provinces

1. The Chairperson

   a) Declaration of an amnesty in terms of section 139(2)(a) of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No 60 of 2000). Referred to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development for consideration and report.