National Assembly - 27 May 2010
THURSDAY, 27 MAY 2010 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC:
Successes and challenges in implementation of government’s programme of action to improve lives
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Mrs M S Mangena (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:
What (a) successes have been achieved and (b) challenges have been identified by the government in the past 12 months in the implementation of its programme of action to improve the lives of all the people? NO1734E The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon members, government has scored a number of achievements in the past year and we are working hard to ensure that we do even better. Informed by assessments of service delivery and building on the sterling work of previous administrations, we set out to improve government performance when we came into office as the fourth administration. We decided to establish new government departments, to split some and to refocus others. The process has been completed.
We undertook the reconfiguration of government in order to fast-track service delivery. We then began the process of changing the culture of work by introducing more measures to ensure accountability. That is why we have a performance, monitoring and evaluation system in place to reorientate senior public servants into the new way of doing things. We have had several meetings with directors-general and their deputies, municipal managers, school principals and others. We will meet other groups of public servants later this year. We have also established the National Planning Commission which has begun its work. Therefore our systems are now in place.
Looking back, the work done so far reveals several achievements amongst government departments. Owing to time constraints, I will mention just a few. We are continuing with the campaign to improve the delivery of basic education. As members are aware, we want teachers to spend at least six and a half hours a day in school teaching classes. There are some areas of education which we want to focus on more. A key example is sports development, especially given the legacy of the Soccer World Cup. We want each school to offer at least two or more sporting codes. There must be no school that does not have sports facilities for soccer, rugby, netball, hockey, tennis, athletics, cricket and swimming. [Applause.]
We are also working to eradicate the division between rural and urban schools. The Departments of Basic Education, Rural Development and Land Reform, Public Works, Water and Environmental Affairs, and Transport are working together to improve conditions in rural schools. With regard to higher education and skills development, during 2009 the sector education and training authorities registered over 17 000 artisans for training. More than 100 000 workers completed training in scarce and critical skills through learnerships, apprenticeships and other learning programmes.
We have mentioned before the need to strengthen local government. In December 2009 Cabinet approved the Local Government Turnaround Strategy, a road map for municipalities. Every municipality in the country must now develop its own specific turnaround strategies and implementation plans. The Local Government Training Academy will be revived so that new councillors who come in after the 2011 local government elections will be better prepared to discharge their responsibilities effectively. The academy will also assist in retraining municipal employees. We are also reviewing legislation, which impacts on local government, as part of revitalising this sphere. The affected legislation is the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act, the Local Government: Municipal Demarcation Act and the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act.
Still in this area of local governance, we have established a department of traditional affairs. We have identified a need to harmonise working relations between traditional authorities and local government structures. In this regard, we have directed the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to arrange a summit between traditional leaders and municipal structures.
We are successfully revitalising our health care system. The intention is to immunise 15 million children between the ages of 6 months and 15 years against measles, and to vaccinate 5 million children under 5 years of age against polio. We have developed clear strategies in each province to strengthen the country’s anti-tuberculosis programme.
Last month we also began the implementation of the new HIV and Aids treatment and prevention guidelines. This includes, among other things, the provision of antiretroviral treatment to pregnant women with a CD4 count of 350 or less, and to people co-infected with tuberculosis and HIV with a CD4 count of 350 or less. HIV-positive pregnant women are now receiving dual therapy from 14 weeks of pregnancy and not 24 weeks, as was previously the case.
The treatment of HIV and Aids and TB is being integrated and these diseases will be treated under one roof. We have initiated the largest HIV counselling and testing campaign ever undertaken. All 17 sectors represented on the SA National Aids Council have thrown their weight behind this campaign. Several private sector service providers have also come on board to support us. We are pleased to be making an impact in implementing these measures which we announced on World Aids Day last year.
We are making visible progress in improving our Home Affairs systems. Some of the new measures will greatly enhance the entry of passengers during the 2010 Soccer World Cup tournament. Among these, we have introduced an advanced passenger-processing system for airlines flying into South Africa. This enables the screening of passengers before they depart for South Africa. We are also pleased that the passport backlog has been eliminated. [Applause.]
In another development, refugee reception centres now issue asylum seekers permits within a day. [Applause.] Previously, it took a week to issue the permit. Most importantly, we have implemented a successful programme to connect 142 hospitals to the Department of Home Affairs’ systems to enable new births to be registered before babies leave the hospitals. [Applause.]
With regard to economic development, as you are aware, we launched the Industrial Policy Action Plan in February 2010. The plan was adopted by Cabinet following widespread consultation with business, labour and civil society. The plan should help us to significantly expand our industrial capacity and promote job creation. To enhance the creation of decent jobs further, we are making progress in recruiting foreign direct investment in a targeted manner. Targeted countries include China, India, Russia, Brazil, Japan, the United States of America and countries in Europe and the Middle East.
The work programme should translate into an investment of R115 billion worth of projects over the next three years. As part of the critical effort to overcome the economic marginalisation of South Africa’s majority, we have established the Black Economic Empowerment Advisory Council. This was long overdue.
We are pleased to report that since its inaugural meeting in February, the council has begun its work in earnest. At its meeting last week, members of the council emphasised the need to ensure that economic empowerment is indeed broad-based. It agreed that this consideration should be at the centre of the interventions that it will propose to government.
The meeting adopted the council’s constitution which outlines, among other things, the powers, functions and administration of the council. The council has established four subcommittees, and these are: ownership and structuring of broad-based black economic empowerment deals; enterprise development, access to finance and procurement; human resource development; and legislation, charters, compliance and enforcement.
As the chair of the council, I am determined that it should make a tangible contribution to broadening economic opportunities for all our people. The second phase of the Expanded Public Works Programme has made an important contribution to efforts to alleviate the effects of poverty on the unemployed. Over 604 000 work opportunities have been created through this programme. This has contributed to the construction and maintenance of infrastructure and the provision of valuable social services.
A significant achievement over the past 12 months has been the finalisation of plans for the country to successfully host the 2010 Fifa World Cup. With only two weeks to go before kickoff, we can confidently say that we are ready, as outlined in the Presidency Budget Vote speech and other recent departmental inputs.
Transport, stadiums, airports and other infrastructure projects are finished. Investment in additional resources for the police, disaster management, health and the immigration system will have a lasting impact on the effectiveness and efficiency of government to deliver services to the people.
Our greatest challenge in this country, hon members, is the persistence of high levels of poverty, unemployment and inequality. We are strengthening partnerships with various sectors such as business, labour, community and nongovernmental organisations because by working together we will achieve more. We also need to work with you, hon members, and all South Africans to improve citizen care in government and get our public servants to put people first. The Presidential Hotline has been developed to contribute in that regard.
Working together, we will succeed in introducing a new culture of a caring and efficient public service. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: I thank the hon President.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, on a point of order: I refer you to Rule 113(3) of this House. Those Rules state that a reply to a question is limited to three minutes and, with the consent of the presiding officer, further time is allotted. I’m aware of the fact that in the Chief Whips’ Forum, we have had a debate in respect of extending the time for the President; after all, he is the President. But, sir, I draw your attention to the fact that the answer to the very first question has taken 25 minutes or close thereto. Clearly, that cannot be acceptable in terms of the function of this House. With respect, sir, I do ask you to request the President to limit his reply to a reasonable period. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, according to the Rule book that I have, the President’s reply to questions is not limited. It’s not timed.
Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, could you inform us — because we don’t have it in our Rule book — what Rule you are referring to? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: This was a decision taken during the Third Parliament by the Chief Whips. It was agreed at the time and it continues until it is changed. We now come to the second question to the President. Question number 8 has been asked by the hon Rev K R J Meshoe.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, on a point of order: You have yet to have follow-up questions.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, I have ruled on the matter.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, there are follow-ups, and you are …
The SPEAKER: Follow-ups, hon member, yes.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Well, there are follow-ups. I would assume there are follow-ups to the question, but you’ve just gone on to the next question.
The SPEAKER: I agree. I apologise for that, hon member. The hon A Louw will ask a follow-up question.
Mr A LOUW: Mr President, the question refers to improving …
The SPEAKER: According to the screen, it is A Louw. [Inaudible.] Okay. That’s not a follow-up question. It is a question. Go ahead, hon member.
Mr A LOUW: Thank you. Mr President, the question refers to improving the lives of all the people.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Speaker, on a point of order: The order is that the person who asked the question has the first follow-up.
The SPEAKER: Yes, I accept that. That is why he is on the floor.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: No, but he is not the person who asked the question. It’s Mrs Mangena who asked the question. The SPEAKER: Oh, Mrs Mangena. You are right, hon member. Mrs Mangena has a follow-up question. [Interjections.] Order!
Mrs M S MANGENA: Thank you, hon Speaker.
Muphuresidennde vha vhona vha tshi ḓo shumisana hani na Muhasho … [Hon President, how are you going to work with the Department …] The SPEAKER: Hon member, hold on while the President puts on his translation equipment. You may proceed, hon member.
Mrs M S MANGENA: Muphuresidennde vhone vha vhona vha tshi ḓo shumisana hani na Muhasho wa … [Hon President, how are you going to work with the Department of …]
… Performance Monitoring, Evaluation and Administration, in your office …
… na dzikomiti dza Phalamennde dzo fhiwaho mushumo wa u lavhelesa. Ndi a livhuwa. [… and the parliamentary committees that are tasked with the oversight role? I thank you.]
The SPEAKER: Hon President, do you want me to translate? [Laughter.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Please do so, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon President, are you ready to respond?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I’m not sure I got the entire question. Could you translate it?
The SPEAKER: Hon member, could you please repeat the question and do so slowly? Hon President, are you ready with the translation equipment?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: There was a cut-off …
Mrs M S MANGENA: Hon Speaker, does the President want me to ask it in English? [Interjections.] Remember, this is my official language.
The SPEAKER: Yes, we are not changing the channel, hon member.
Mrs M S MANGENA: How does the President envision the working relationship between the Department of Performance Monitoring, Evaluation and Administration in the Presidency and the various parliamentary committees tasked with oversight, particularly those in the governance and monitoring cluster? Thank you very much.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, I’ve got the question now. The monitoring that we are doing is overall monitoring in terms of government. Of course, that will assist — I’m sure — the oversight that is done by Parliament. Parliament will take what comes as a result of the monitoring and utilise it in doing its oversight.
I think that’s what we are looking at. We are monitoring government in general, to know what is happening, where the people have achieved, and what they want to do. That must help the committees to get the information so that they can do better oversight.
Mr H P CHAUKE: Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I just want to raise a serious concern, that Parliament gears itself up when it comes to interpretation. It is not right that members have to divert from their language and use another language. Therefore I think indigenous languages are very critical for members to use. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: That’s noted.
Mr A LOUW: Thank you, Speaker. Mr President, the question refers to improving the lives of all the people. Yet, despite your action plan to address the impact of the recession, our unemployment rate continues to escalate.
In his Budget Speech Minister Pravin Gordhan states: “Bargaining arrangements push up entry level wages, pricing out inexperienced workseekers.” He proposed to “support these reforms through a subsidy to employers that will lower the cost of hiring young people without work”. These proposals are aligned with DA policies.
Mr President, where is the plan? Where is the wage subsidy? When will the Minister of Finance’s proposals be implemented? [Applause.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the issue of the subsidy, particularly for young graduates coming out of university, has been raised in this House very recently. It has been raised as one aspect that we thought was important for us to deal with, as one sees the increase in the number of the unemployed; particularly people who come out of the tertiary institutions with skills.
These people are locked out because they don’t have experience. This is because the minimum wage is very high and the companies want experienced people. We have suggested that we consider the issue and see what we can do to address the issue. I’m sure the Minister was raising that within that context.
This is, of course, a matter that we need everyone to agree on in order to debate. For example, as you know, unions have raised issues regarding that matter. I think we need an opportunity to discuss and see whether we are agreed on those matters or not.
I’m sure if government just moved on with the plan, there would be people who would complain about dictatorship. You would be questioning government for enforcing things while other people are raising issues. So, the matters are being considered. Once it is agreed, I’m sure we will be able to work on the plan. This is the plan and this is how it must be implemented. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: I thank the hon President. The second supplementary question will be asked by hon Tsotetsi.
Mrs M S MANGENA: Hon Speaker, I made a mistake. I pressed her button. I’m sorry.
The SPEAKER: Okay, hon member. Please don’t press the button of your neighbour. [Laughter.] Order! Order, hon members!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr President, I hear your response, but a question does arise. I would assume, prior to the introduction of the Budget when this concept of a wage subsidy was introduced, that it had been workshopped through the ANC because it was part of the Budget. Therefore I would assume that there would have been party policy on behalf of your party coming to this House.
So, I am a little surprised that you come now and say you put something on the table, but we still have to debate it. I would have thought that this is a policy of the ANC – a policy of your government. What we are asking for now is for you to implement that policy. [Laughter.] The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, all I’m saying is that we presented the matter and there have been people who say they don’t agree with it. I don’t think one can then stand up, present the policy and implement it. I’m saying we have to deal with those who disagree, and discuss and exhaust the matter. Then you come with your plan.
Even if we have a plan, we can’t say — whilst there are people who say that they don’t agree — that we don’t care and are now implementing the plan because I’ve raised the issue of the plan. I’m sure that you would be the first to object, from the opposition. Absolutely. [Interjections.] I’m saying if we did not agree …[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order, hon members!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: You don’t always support everything. On the occasion that you would not support it, you would ask: What are you doing? You would be the first to object, not only on this matter but on matters in general. [Applause.]
Position of African leaders regarding foreign aid as compared to direct foreign investment
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Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) Whether African leaders agreed to stop depending on foreign aid at the World Economic Forum that was held in Dar es Salaam recently; if so, what are the relevant details; if not,
(2) whether African leaders expressed any position on foreign aid as compared to direct foreign investment; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1674E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the World … [Laughter.]
Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon Ellis!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, when members ask questions, they need information to be given to them. Why then are they refusing the information? Somebody is pleading, “Be shorter, please!” We want to give information to help answer the questions that members want to ask.
The World Economic Forum describes itself as an independent international organisation, committed to improving the state of the world by engaging leaders in partnership to shape global, regional and industry agendas.
More than 1 200 global leaders from governments and the private sector gathered in Dar es Salaam from 5 May to 7 May for the World Economic Forum on Africa. The theme of this year’s meeting – “Rethinking Africa’s growth strategy” – allowed our government to share a set of key messages with other participants in 25 of the 50 working sessions.
The sessions were integrated into four themes, namely: building effective institutions and governance structures, fostering sustainable growth and development, managing risks as opportunities, and fostering an empowerment mindset.
The meeting in Tanzania was not meant to be a representative meeting of African heads of state or government. No decisions are taken at the World Economic Forum. It is meant to encourage discussion and networking and for leaders in various fields to share information and promote their views, programmes and strategies on tackling the continent’s challenges.
South Africa used the opportunity to argue that the continent should focus on diversifying secondary production, increasing intra-Africa trade, expanding regional co-operation and fostering further private-sector partnerships. We argued that Africa would need to overcome its infrastructure deficit and invest in transport, energy, water and telecommunications to further improve its global competitiveness.
Africa has to extend preferential markets across southern and eastern Africa through the Tripartite Free Trade Area. This will draw together the Southern African Development Community, the East African Community and the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa to promote intra-African trade and foreign direct investment.
Therefore, economic integration is a critical route towards economic development and less dependence on aid. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Mr Speaker, owing to unforeseen circumstances Rev Meshoe was unable to be here. I apologise for that and will endeavour to ask the follow-up question for him.
I would like to ask the hon President whether any plan to wean African states off foreign aid was presented during these discussions. What would the details around such a plan be? Would there be domestic reforms that would be necessary in terms of your discussions, rather than agreements? What role was envisaged for the private sector? Would the cessation of dependence on foreign aid mean nationalisation of African resources in any way? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, we discussed how Africa should intervene and position itself. We did not necessarily go into a discussion on the question of aid. That issue has been discussed at various other forums. At these forums Africa has said that it needed to look at the question of aid differently. Africa needs to move away from aid and get into investment.
I think there were those who said things closer to that point, but that was not the issue that was being discussed. The issue under discussion was how we should rethink Africa’s positioning of itself in light of the global economic situation and activities. We are contributing in that direction. Thank you.
Dr D T GEORGE: Speaker, a World Economic Forum report states that —
… large-scale human rights abuses and extreme poverty have marred 20th century Africa. The tradition of African silence has become more a liability than an asset.
Mr President, you said at the forum that, “… the benefits of democracy must lead to economic development and … improve the quality of life of ordinary people.”
In Africa, detention without trial continues unabated and gay people are being persecuted and imprisoned on the basis of their sexual orientation. This crime against humanity prevents economic development, breaches international agreements, deters direct foreign investment and is a violation of our own Constitution. This is an African challenge to which you refer.
Mr President, why are you and your government completely silent on this despicable, homophobic assault on the human rights and dignity of our brothers and sisters across Africa? Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, there are many things that happen in Africa. There have been many. I think we have been involved in a broader struggle on the continent: The struggle to try to right the wrongs; to try to deal with matters on the continent.
Our approach has been that we needed to persuade, we needed to make people understand, we needed to move with them. We have never adopted a confrontational stance on matters. We have been raising matters when matters have arisen, when things have happened, even on the issue that took place in Malawi.
We have commented already. Maybe the hon member missed those comments. [Interjections.] We have condemned the action taken to arrest people in terms of our Constitution, because it was contrary to our Constitution. We stated the views of this country, as contained in the Constitution.
The manner in which you address the matters on the continent could create conditions that are not conducive for you to engage and lead. But, you could adopt a stance in which you address matters in a manner that makes people receptive to what you say. And you might not adopt the same stance.
We have never kept quiet on the continent. We have raised our issues on elections that have not gone right. I don’t think we have kept quiet. So, we are with you on this issue of representing the country and the continent. We are working hard to change Africa, and we will continue to do so. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms T B SUNDUZA: Speaker, my follow-up question is based on our colonial history. As you know, Africa was colonised, the colonists benefited from Africa, and now Africa has become economically dependent on colonial support. This weakens our democracy and independence.
I want to understand what the summit’s view on Africa’s debt was. Africa cannot grow because of the debts that it owes. Such debt causes a reversal even in our economy; we can’t even develop and be independent. So, I would like the hon President to inform us of the summit’s view on the debt, because …
… sihlala sityala Mongameli ngeli thuba aba bantu besitya. Siyatyala, asiyi phambili. Ngoko ke, niyithini le nto? Ndiyabulela. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[… we are always in debt, President, while these people are benefiting. We are not progressing, we are in debt. Therefore, what are you doing about that? Thank you.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, you know, in the sessions in which I participated we did not discuss African debt. It could have been discussed in other sessions; I can’t remember. Of course, that is an issue that remains with countries, because debt in Africa is not owned collectively. Individual countries have their debts and they have been trying very hard – and I think they have done a lot of work – to address the question of the debt. But it was not an issue that we specifically focused on there in order to find a solution. Thank you.
Effect of visit of political organisation on President’s mediation role in Zimbabwe
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Mr V B Ndlovu (IFP) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) Whether his mediation role in Zimbabwe has been hampered by the visit of a certain political organisation (name furnished) and its leader’s statements; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so,
(2) whether he has taken any position in this regard; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1676E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, South Africa remains an impartial mediator and facilitator to dialogue between Zimbabwe’s political parties. Its position in this regard is widely recognised, and all parties have indicated their confidence in South Africa’s ability to discharge its mandate dispassionately. Neither the visit nor the statements to which the hon member refers have impaired South Africa in the performance of this responsibility. We are not hampered at all. I thank you, Speaker.
Mnu V B NDLOVU: Ngiyabonga Somlomo, mhlonishwa Mongameli, kanye nabahlonishwa bonke. Engicela ukukubuza mhlonishwa Mongameli ukuthi: uthunywe lapha i-SADC ukuthi uyolamula ukuze uhulumeni wakwaBulawayo usebenze ngokubambisana kwizinhlangano zontathu.
Uma ke kuqhamuka umuntu ongaphansi kwakho, oyingane yakho esho okunye okubheke eceleni kunalokho okwenzayo. Okokuqala, kuyaye kufanele wenze njani njengomuntu omdala? Okwesibili, kufanele uthini kulaba abakuthumile futhi ubachazela uthini ngale nkinga ohlangabezana nayo yengane ephikisana nawe umdala uzama ukulamula abantu ekhaya na? [Uhleko.] UMOMGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKHI: Ngiyabonga kakhulu Somlomo, nelungu elihloniphekile lePhalamende ubab’uGatsheni, uBoya Benyathi, eqinisweni noma yinini uma ingane yakho kukhona ekwenzayo okuphuma eceleni, uyayikhuza.
Ingane ngiyikhuzile, ukuphendula ubuzo wokuqala.[Ihlombe.] Okwesibili akulona udaba lolu okulindelwe ukuthi luze lubikwe kwi-SADC. Baningi kabi abantu abakhulumayo ngodaba lwaseZimbabwe. Ukuba ngingaqoqa izinto ezishiwoyo eceleni ngithi ngiyozibeka lapha, ngiyethemba umbiko wami ungaba umqingo omkhulu kabi ngoba baningi abantu abakhulumayo ngodaba lwaseZimbabwe.
Okubabalukekile ukuthi ngiyokwethula umbiko kwi-SADC lowo oqondene ngqo nomsebenzi engiwenzayo. Asikafiki isikhathi sokuthi siyobika, sizobika bude budala njengoba sisebenza nje. Sibike ku-SADC ukuthi kuhamba kanjani. Umsebenzi uhamba kahle kakhulu kanti noma ingane ikhuziwe lokho akuzange kuphazamisane nomsebenzi esiwenzayo laphaya. Siyawuqhuba nje kahle, akunankinga nencane. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Thank you Speaker, hon President, and all hon members. What I would like to say to and ask the hon President is this: You are sent by SADC to go and mediate in order for the three parties in the Zimbabwean government to work together. What are you going to do if your subordinate undermines your authority by doing the opposite of what you are doing? Firstly, what should you do as a person in a position of power? Secondly, what should you say to those who have sent you, and what explanation are you going to give them regarding this problem that you have encountered with this subordinate who undermines your authority? [Laughter.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much Speaker, and to the hon Member of Parliament, Gatsheni, Boya benyathi, in reality, whenever your child does something that is way out of line, you admonish him or her.
To answer the first question, I have admonished the child. [Applause.] Secondly, this is not a matter that should be reported to SADC. Many people are talking about the Zimbabwe matter. If I were to collect all the things that are being said, put them aside and bring them here, I believe my report would be very big, because many people are talking about it.
What is important is that I will present to SADC a report that is exactly in line with the work that I’m doing. The report is not due yet, so we will report at a later stage because we are still working. We will report to SADC how things are going. The work is going on very well. Even though the child was admonished, that did not interfere with the work which we are doing there. We are continuing with it. There is no problem at all.]
Mr J SELFE: Speaker, I would like to thank the President for that reply. The person to whom this question refers, Mr Julius Malema, addressed the Mineral Resources portfolio committee yesterday, and he reportedly said, “The views of the ANC Youth League have always prevailed within the ANC.” Now, when Mr Malema went to Zimbabwe in April, one of the statements referred to in this question was that he said he was going to intensify his campaign for the nationalisation of mines and land in South Africa.
In view of the ANC Youth League’s prevalence in determining ANC policy, we want to know very directly from you, sir, whether you will give us the unequivocal assurance that your government will not nationalise mines and land. [Interjections.] We want that answer from you, sir, and not by way of a debate with the President of the ANC Youth League.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, I am sure we have answered this question in this House before. [Interjections.] We have said that Mr Malema, like any other South African, has a right to his views. His views are his views. It could be the views of the ANC Youth League, as well, and historically the ANC Youth League has had very strong views. It does not mean that all the views were accepted as they were, but they always had views, raised issues, and the matters would be discussed. Then resolutions were taken.
I think that what Mr Malema was articulating is not new, that he is articulating certain things. The ANC Youth League has always done so. He was simply making that point and that they would debate the issues and try to win the debate.
In the ANC, we are a democratic organisation, and even individuals, not only the youth, do so. They do raise their issues which are then debated. I can tell you, in the ANC we are used to debates.
On this matter, the ANC has a policy. It doesn’t depend on the views of an individual. We don’t work like that. We work on the ANC policy that emerges out of vigorous discussions. The aim of the policy is clear, and that is why I said that I have answered the question here before, in that we don’t have a nationalisation policy as the ANC.
That question has been answered. You know it. I have even invited you, if this issue creates excitement, to debate the matter with Malema. [Interjections.] He is there. He is ready to debate the matter with you. Absolutely! [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, Mr President. Does your mediation role include plans for peacekeepers for the expected forthcoming election, as requested by Prime Minister Tsvangirai? If not, why not? If so, what are the relevant details then? The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Sorry, could you repeat the question? I couldn’t hear you at the beginning.
Mrs C DUDLEY: Sorry, sir. In terms of your mediation role, does this include plans for peacekeepers for the expected forthcoming election and how will that pan out? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you. Our mediation does not include peacekeepers. Peacekeepers go to places where there is a fight. In Zimbabwe there is no fight. [Interjections.] What has happened in Zimbabwe has been the request for people to come and monitor elections. That is how I’ve heard Tsvangirai speaking, that in the coming election he will ask the Southern African Development Community to monitor them.
You bring in peacekeepers where there is a fight, where you want to stop a fight. I haven’t heard Tsvangirai talk about peacekeepers. I’ve heard him talk about monitoring and observing the election.
That is not what we are debating at the moment. We are dealing with the implementation of the plan. Probably, once the issue of the election emerges as an issue on the agenda, that matter will arise, and I am sure it will be attended to at that time. Thank you. [Applause.]
Lessons learnt from involvement in peace processes in Sudan 10. Dr G W Koornhof (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:
Whether the government has learnt any lessons from its involvement in
the peace processes that culminated in elections in Sudan; if so, how
will it assist the government in achieving its foreign policy
objectives on the continent? NO1735E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, South Africa’s involvement in Sudan is informed by its strategic foreign policy priority, that peace, security and stability are prerequisites for Africa’s socioeconomic development. South Africa is of the view that the resolution of conflict and restoration of peace in the largest country on the continent will not only impact positively on the Horn of Africa, but on the African continent as a whole.
Since the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement, CPA, in 2005 to end the 21-year civil war, South Africa has been actively involved in supporting Sudan in its democratic transformation. South Africa has assisted the government of Southern Sudan to build capacity and develop institutions for governance since 2005.
In addition, South Africa has engaged both the government of national unity and the government of Southern Sudan to strengthen capacity in the police service with a view to developing a culture of democratic policing.
With elections being one of the key elements in the democratic transformation of Sudan, the South African government took a decision to assist the National Elections Commission and to deploy an observer team under the auspices of the African Union. These elections, notwithstanding challenges, are viewed as a positive step towards the democratic transition of Sudan, as envisaged in the CPA.
A critical lesson from international involvement in conflict resolution, including South Africa’s role in the peace processes, is the need to foster and maintain a common and united international approach regarding the implementation of agreements.
It is also clear that no solutions are possible or sustainable without the active involvement of all parties in the conflict. It is important to emphasise inclusivity and consensus-seeking and to discourage any forms of unilateral action. In January 2011, Sudan will be conducting a historic referendum on the future of the country.
In light of the importance and the sensitivity of the process, it is incumbent on the African Union and the broader international community to work with the parties to reach agreement on the final aspects of the CPA and the post-referendum causes and issues. Failure to agree on these critical issues could set the peace process back and give rise to political tension and instability. In this regard, South Africa will continue to provide support to the AU high-level implementation panel on Darfur under the auspices of former President Thabo Mbeki.
In addition, South Africa will render assistance to the United Nations, the Intergovernmental Authority on Development and other interested parties towards a peaceful resolution to the Darfur conflict. South Africa will also continue its facilitating role as Chair of the Committee on Post- Conflict Reconstruction and Development in the Sudan, as mandated by the African Union. I thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Dr G W KOORNHOF: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr President, thank you for the comprehensive reply to this question. I am glad that you have referred to the upcoming referendum early in 2011. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on this. The referendum regarding, as you say, the question of a united Sudan, the north and the south, is scheduled for early 2011. Could you elaborate on what the view of our government is regarding this upcoming referendum? And, how important is the role that the AU should play in the run-up to this important event? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, our view is that Sudan should remain one country. The referendum should achieve that purpose. That is why we have participated in many respects, as I have just indicated, to help the south and the north to work towards an understanding, so that they are ready when they have the referendum to agree that Sudan is one country. That is the view of the AU as well and of many countries on the continent. That is also the view of the international community.
That is why all of us are doing everything we can to ensure that that becomes an outcome at the end. We are very happy that at least the elections took place and produced results that have been accepted by the world. We believe that that, in a sense, creates ground for us to work harder to ensure that by the time of the referendum there is a better understanding among the Sudanese, particularly the north and the south, as well as Darfur and other areas of Sudan. That is our view and that is what we will be working towards in terms of assisting Sudan. Thank you.
Mr V B NDLOVU: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you, Mr President. After the Sudan elections, do you think that we should call back our people who have been deployed in Sudan, who are assisting the police or the army, or should we carry on until the referendum has been held? What is SADC’s position on the implementation and the cost thereof of those people who are deployed in Sudan? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. The situation determines how long people stay. Sudan does not have problems in one area only. Apart from the differences and difficulties between the south and the north, you also have Darfur. Darfur is a major problem and that is where the main concentration is of those who are helping. As you heard recently, some South Africans were kidnapped there. It was in that area.
I am not certain whether it will be easy to do so after the elections. I cannot speculate. The reality is that Darfur is still a problem. Much as we have held elections, there is no evidence that the elections resulted in the disappearance of the problems in Darfur, or that it impacted positively so that we can see what happens.
Certainly, once the situation is better and there is no need for foreign forces to help, we will be able to call people back. That is also the view of SADC, the African Union and the United Nations. It will be determined by how the efforts on the ground, to bring about peace and stability, progress in terms of what we think should happen.
On the question of cost, I have a similar kind of answer. As long as there is conflict, one can’t say that we have paid enough now, that we are leaving you, and you can go on killing one another. We will continue to ensure that we try to bring about peace.
Certainly, it is always costly. It has always been costly. But, of course, people will argue that one cannot put a price on the lives of people. Therefore, we want peace in this continent and we will do whatever is in our capacity, as will the AU and other countries. There is also IGAD – the Intergovernmental Authority on Development – which is closer to the situation and which is working with everyone. There is also the involvement of the international community. So all of them, I’m sure, will come together to decide whether the situation has changed enough to recall our people or not. It will depend on conditions, as well as consultation. Thank you.
Reconciliation of President’s comments about faster land reform while being within the ambit of the law
-
The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the President of the Republic:
How does he reconcile his recent comments at the Black Management Forum on 29 April 2010 about the government’s faster and more pragmatic approach to land reform with his comments that such a policy would be carried out within the ambit of the law? NO1671E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, hon member, there is no contradiction between faster …
Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member? Mr M J ELLIS: I beg your pardon, Mr President. Mr Speaker, you allowed only two supplementary questions on that last question, namely question 10.
The SPEAKER: There is only one on my list. I do not have any other questions.
Mr M J ELLIS: There obviously is an error in the system, sir, because the hon Mubu did indicate that he wished to ask a question.
The SPEAKER: Well, there probably is something wrong with the …
Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I have no doubt that the hon President would love to answer a question from the DA.
The SPEAKER: No, I’m sure he loves answering all the questions, and I know you like to listen to all the answers. But I’m just talking about the machine this time around, that there is a problem here. Hon member …
Mr K S MUBU: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Mr President. I would like to find out how you reconcile the South African government’s support for the Sudanese government with the fact that President al-Bashir has a warrant of arrest for human rights abuses from the International Criminal Court in The Hague hanging over his head. Secondly, I believe that you have invited all heads of state in Africa to the Fifa World Cup next month. I want to know, Mr President, if President al-Bashir comes here, is he going to be arrested in view of the fact there is this warrant of arrest and that South Africa is a signatory to the International Criminal Court in The Hague? [Interjections.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, South Africa respects international law and we certainly are signatories, and we abide by the law. Secondly, we reconcile our participation in the process – whilst the leader of that country has the warrant of arrest issued against him – on the basis of the African Union’s decision.
The AU took a very deliberate decision and requested the International Criminal Court to postpone the action against al-Bashir, given the fact that we were dealing with a situation of violence, and that, if it acted immediately, we could reverse the situation in Sudan. That was done collectively by the African leaders, and the message was sent, and it was correct to do so, because our view was that, if we did that, that situation could have become worse.
That is what the AU said. It did not say we must not arrest al-Bashir. It looked at the situation and felt that it was necessary to move cautiously on this matter. That is what we have done, and that is why we are reconciling the two points. Thank you. [Applause.] The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon President. Hon members, it looks like the system I have been relying on is a bit faulty. Are there any other supplementary questions that I did not recognise? The last supplementary question will go to you, sir.
Mr K S MUBU: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr President, I just want to follow up on the second part of my question. You have invited all presidents on the continent to the Fifa World Cup. If al-Bashir comes to South Africa, will you arrest him or not? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members, order! Order! Hon members, please allow the President to be heard. Hon members, including hon Ellis, please. Order!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, in my response, that is the first thing that I answered. I answered very clearly that South Africa respects the international law, and that answers the question.
The SPEAKER: Order! The President will now respond to question 11.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon member, there is no contradiction between faster land reform and the consistent application of the law. Government has recognised that the land reform programmes implemented to date have not been entirely sustainable. They have not provided the anticipated socioeconomic benefits to all the recipients of the programmes.
Among other things, this is the result of institutional weaknesses in overall land management policy and legislation. As a result, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform embarked on the development of a Green Paper on agrarian transformation, rural development and land reform, which is currently being finalised for submission to Cabinet.
The Green Paper is intended to culminate in a new land policy framework and an omnibus of legislation which should be a consolidation of all land- related laws. While we are in the process of developing legislation linked to the Green Paper process, it is imperative that we find immediate mechanisms to respond to the plight of farmworkers and farm dwellers.
We will soon introduce a land tenure Bill which will repeal the Extension of Security of Tenure Act and the Land Reform (Labour Tenants) Act. This Bill will be informed by the following objectives: to protect the relative rights of farmworkers, farm dwellers and landowners; to strengthen the rights of farm dwellers; and to enhance food security through sustained production discipline.
Any new legislation will be developed in line with the Constitution, and will follow the normal Cabinet and parliamentary processes. I reiterate that the pursuit of a sustainable and accelerated approach to land reform will be carried out within the ambit of the law, and we should still be able to do it faster. I thank you, hon Speaker.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, hon President, in a recent court ruling on a case brought to the Land Claims Court by FCL Farming, it was stated, and I quote:
There is a disturbing, if not alarming, number of applications being brought to the Land Claims Court against the Minister of Agriculture and Land Affairs, the Chief Land Claims Commissioner and the regional land claims commissioners as respondents. These applications follow an all too familiar and unfortunate pattern. They are prompted because of the failure on the part of the commission and regional land claims commissioners to comply with orders of the court, with agreements entered into with landowners, and with orders for contempt of court.
This is clearly not within the ambit of the law. What will you do about these institutional failings that are holding land reform and reclamation back?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. I’m certain that what I said does take that into account. That is why I said that the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform was working on these matters. I’m sure that those kinds of court appearances and decisions must say to the Minister that there is something that needs to be put right here. That is why he is working on the matter. I’m certain that that will happen.
There are a lot of problems with this matter. It is not just a one-sided problem. Commissioners in different places have been taking decisions. Some people heard very late that they needed to apply, etc. So there are many, many other things regarding this matter.
I’m saying that the Minister is working to look at everything so that we can have an approach that will be less difficult to deal with, in order to correct things that have not necessarily gone very well on this matter. That is why we said that the Minister was working on this and he is going to put it through the proper channels, as a conclusion of the Green Paper that has been put forward with regard to these matters. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: I thank the hon President. Hon members, the system is a bit faulty, but I will ask the table staff to help me identify two more supplementary questions.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, hon Speaker, and thank you, hon President. Land is a finite resource and is escalating in value all over the world. There is, incidentally, no such thing as an inflated market value; market value is market value.
The landless issue can only properly be addressed by budgeting adequately and ensuring that land beneficiaries are using the land productively with the necessary post-settlement and extension services, not by nationalising land or imploding the value of the land.
Will your government protect the right to own property, and what steps will you take to ensure that the land transformation agenda will ensure increased productivity and combat institutional weaknesses that result in wasted money on court cases?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, there has been no attempt to undermine the rights of those who own property; I don’t remember any. I think that there were measures that were taken into account. Indeed, since 1994, these processes have been moving. Gaps have been found; weaknesses have been found. This is what we are trying to correct. I don’t think there is an attempt to undermine the rights of those who own land.
What we have been trying to do is determine how we deal with the land so that citizens of this country are all able to benefit from the land – all of them … [Applause.] … in a manner which is within the context of the law. We have emphasised this. The process that I talked about, that the Minister is working on, is not attempting to undermine the rights. It is actually attempting to streamline the manner in which we deal with this question. I don’t think anything has gone wrong. Thank you.
Mrs P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon President, thank you for the response you have given to the House. I believe that information is power.
Hon President, with regard to the envisaged legislative reform, including the Green Paper to be tabled by the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform in due course pertaining to rural development, what is the government doing to assist farm dwellers, especially victims of evictions, landowners who are unable to produce from their land, and the beneficiaries of the land reform and restitution programme? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, those matters are addressed by the process that the Minister is involved in. I’m sure that at the end of that process, those aspects will be answered. The Minister is specifically dealing with those issues, including land that has been given back to the rightful owners — land that was productive before it was handed over, but became unproductive after it was handed over. Those are matters that the Minister is addressing. I’m sure we will have lasting solutions to these matters. Thank you. [Applause.] Mrs A STEYN: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon President, regarding the Green Paper, we all understand it and are waiting in anticipation, and we are happy about it.
As regards the court cases, there are 19 cases already against the department because they have not paid the landowners. There are 21 cases pending in court at the moment with the same problem. We are not asking about the Green Paper, but about the process in court at the moment in which the department does not adhere to court cases. What are you going to do about that?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Does the department not respond to those cases?
Mrs A STEYN: Speaker, yes. Mr President, they don’t adhere to the rulings of the court cases.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Oh, they don’t adhere to the rulings of the court cases? [Interjections.]
Well, I don’t know the facts. I’m sure one would check that as to what the issue is. I don’t know the facts about the respondent to the issues. As far as I remember, court matters take time. But I will check as to whether the department is not responding to those specific issues. I think that the issue that you were referring to is where courts have given judgment against the department. Is that what you are referring to?
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: We will check on that. Thank you very much.
The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon President. The President will check, and there will be a written response. Hon members, the last question which was asked by the hon Ramatlakane has been withdrawn.
Mr M J ELLIS: Why?
The SPEAKER: You better ask him why. We know why, but you had better ask him yourself. [Laughter.] Hon members, that concludes Questions to the President and I wish to thank the hon President. [Applause.]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr G G BOINAMO: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the possibility of outsourcing the whole process relating to senior certificate examinations.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Does any other member wish to give notice of a motion? Please move closer to the microphones, hon member.
Mrs N W A MICHAEL: Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House –
(1) debates the state of disrepair of courts across the country, including the working conditions of court staff; and
2) comes up with possible solutions to these problems.
Mr M MNQASELA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House –
1) debates the clear swing in voter support towards the DA,
demonstrated in the recent by-election wins of the DA; and
2) notes, in particular, the extraordinary results obtained by the DA
in two former ANC strongholds in the Western Cape yesterday, 26 May
2010.
Dr D T GEORGE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the implementation of a wage subsidy to encourage the employment of first-time job seekers, as proposed by the Minister of Finance in February 2010.
Ms E MORE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House –
(1) debates the adherence to the required minimum standards set for public hospitals, including the continuous inspection of these standards; and
2) comes up with possible solutions to the current state of public
hospitals.
Dr W G JAMES: Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move the following motion on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates how government could better support our 23 universities and 53 colleges in finding and financially supporting talented students, especially those from poor urban and rural backgrounds.
DEATH OF TENOR SIPHIWO NTSHEBE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes with deep sadness the death of tenor Siphiwo Ntshebe, at the
age of 34, from bacterial meningitis when he was due to perform his
signature song Hope at the opening ceremony of the Soccer World
Cup;
2) further notes that Siphiwo’s talent was also recognised by former
President Nelson Mandela, who viewed Siphiwo “... as a young South
African with so much talent, who has, despite challenges of the
past, chosen to work hard for a better future and has made us all
proud with his performance...”;
3) recognises that Siphiwo had a truly wondrous voice and his music
was unique in its melodies and he was, as a result, awarded
scholarships to further his career in music at the University of
Cape Town, followed by another offer from Brisbane, Australia, and
that, in 2004, he was also offered a postgraduate scholarship to
study at the Royal College of Music in London, which he completed
in 2007;
4) hopes that Siphiwo’s song Hope, which was recorded with former
President Nelson Mandela’s message on it, will be played at the
opening ceremony as planned in respect and tribute to Siphiwo; and
5) conveys its condolences to the Ntshebe family, friends and the
music fraternity and says: May Siphiwo’s soul rest in peace and his
spirit of hope centre us all during the World Cup and beyond and
may his life and achievements be an inspiration to our youth.
Agreed to.
SOUTH AFRICA SELECTED BY INTERNATIONAL ASTRONOMICAL UNION TO HOST THEIR OFFICE FOR ASTRONOMY DEVELOPMENT
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes that the International Astronomical Union has selected South
Africa to host their Office for Astronomy Development;
2) congratulates the prestigious South African Astronomical
Observatory in Cape Town on being chosen to host the Office for
Astronomy Development;
3) congratulates the Department of Science and Technology for
demonstrating its commitment to scientific research development;
4) further notes that the location of the Office for Astronomy
Development in Cape Town is a major boost for our bid, to be
decided in 2012, to host the Square Kilometre Array, as it
positions South Africa as a leader in astronomy development and
makes South Africa a natural location for major astronomical
investment;
5) believes that this is a significant achievement not only for South
Africa but also for all of Africa; and
6) endorses the comment made by Kevin Govender, Chairperson of the SA
Astronomical Observatory’s “Developing Astronomy Globally” project,
when he said, “As one of the few developing countries with an
internationally recognised and strong astronomy community, we felt
that it was South Africa’s responsibility to look at ways of
bringing astronomy to less developed parts of the world, with a
focus on Africa. Through the invaluable support of the
International Astronomical Union we have been able to stimulate
astronomy activities across the world, from Gabon to Tajikistan.
Hosting this prestigious office will enable South Africa to expand
this developmental role and realise the common vision with the
International Astronomical Union of astronomy in every part of the
world.”
Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL OF CANDIDATES RECOMMENDED FOR APPOINTMENT TO COUNCIL OF INDEPENDENT COMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY OF SOUTH
AFRICA, ICASA
Mr I VADI: Chairperson, it is my pleasure to present a consensus report which enjoys the support of all the political parties in the Portfolio Committee on Communications.
Later this year, the terms of office of four councillors of the Independent Communications Authority of SA, Icasa, will be coming to an end. In terms of the Icasa Act, the committee has to process public nominations to fill these vacancies. The committee received a total of 91 nominations from the public, based on an advert that was placed in the newspapers. It eventually decided on interviewing 20 candidates. Unfortunately, two candidates withdrew at the eleventh hour.
Having conducted the interviews over the past few weeks, the committee reports unanimously that the following candidates should be recommended to the Minister of Communications for appointment to the Council of Icasa. They are — and this is not necessarily in order of importance — Mr John Matisonn, Ms Ntombizodwa Ndhlovu, Mr Joseph Lebooa, Ms Mankakane Violet Magagane, Mr William Currie, Adv Luthando Mkumatela and Dr Stephen Mncube.
Of course, the Minister will have to decide on four of the candidates and their respective commencement dates, as vacancies are staggered, and refer the matter back to the House for its final decision.
These candidates possess skills relevant to the ICT regulatory environment; more specifically they demonstrate expertise in broadcasting, electronic communications and postal policy, electronic engineering, law and journalism. The abridged CVs of these candidates have been loaded onto the parliamentary website, for members who may want to take a peek at that.
Candidates must also be committed to fairness, freedom of expression, openness and accountability, and must be representative of a broad cross- section of the population.
Chairperson, in considering this report, the committee wishes to bring two issues to the attention of the House: The first question is of disqualification of Icasa councillors and possible conflicts of interest as councillors perform their functions in the council.
Section 6(1)(f) and (g) of the Icasa Act states that a person may not be appointed as a councillor if he or she or his or her family member or business partner has a direct or indirect financial interest in the telecommunications or broadcasting industry.
Section 6(2) specifically states:
A person who is subject to a disqualification … may be nominated for appointment as a councillor, but may only be appointed if at the time of such appointment, he or she is no longer subject to that disqualification.
Recently, our committee become aware that a currently serving councillor who was appointed late last year did not meet the provisions of section 6(2). Legal opinion, both from the Parliamentary Legal Services and an independent senior councillor from the Cape Bar, suggests that the appointment of the said councillor is invalid or of no force or effect.
The committee has called upon the Minister to institute appropriate remedial action as soon as possible, so as to rectify what is in effect an unlawful appointment.
In order to prevent a recurrence of such an irregular appointment this time, the committee explicitly questioned the candidates on their personal and their immediate families’ financial interests. It also called upon them to declare any possible grounds for disqualification.
The formal written response from each candidate on his or her financial interest was published in yesterday’s Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports. The committee wishes to draw the attention of the Minister to this information before any final appointment is gazetted. Otherwise, we are going to be faced with a similar problem.
Secondly, Chairperson, in my previous report to the House, I indicated that the committee was not satisfied with the overall performance of the Icasa Council. I said then that we were continually receiving negative feedback on administrative inefficiencies, failure to process regulatory decisions on the basis of proper and legally defensible procedures, and the absence of organisational cohesion between the council and the senior executive management of Icasa.
The committee therefore called upon the Minister and the department to finalise the performance management system so as to monitor and evaluate the performance of the Icasa councillors and the chairperson, as this is a requirement of section 9 of the Icasa Act.
The committee can report that it received a draft framework on the performance management system for Icasa from the Department of Communications. It was not entirely satisfied with the proposals and referred the matter back to the department for review. We hope that this matter will be concluded shortly, so that each councillor can be held publicly accountable for his or her performance.
In conclusion, the committee therefore recommends that the report be approved by this House, and the names of Mr Matisonn, Ms Ndhlovu, Mr Lebooa, Ms Magagane, Mr Currie, Adv Mkumatela and Dr Stephen Mncube be referred to the Minister for his consideration. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Question put: That the House approves the following list of candidates to fill four vacancies on the Council of the Independent Communications Authority of SA:
Mr John Matisonn; Ms Ntombizodwa (Miki) Ndhlovu; Mr Joseph Morakile Lebooa; Ms Mankakane Violet Magagane; Mr William Hamilton Currie; Adv Luthando Simphiwe Mkumatela; and Dr Stephen Sipho Mncube.
Question agreed to.
The House adjourned at 15:44. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
-
Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159 (1) Constitution Amendment Bill, 2010, and Superior Courts Amendment Bill, 2010, submitted by the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development.
Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs
(a) Government Notice No 393 published in Government Gazette No 33184 dated 14 May 2010: Invitation for written representations or comments on the Draft National Strategy on Sustainable Development and Action Plan 2010-2014. (b) Government Notice No 400 published in Government Gazette No 33186 dated 14 May 2010: Delegation of powers under regulation 3 (3) of the CITES Regulation, 2010, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).
- The Minister of Police
(a) Draft Regulations made under section 9(2) of the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa Special Measures Act, 2006 (Act No 11 of 2006).
COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly
- Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the provisional suspension from office of Magistrate MT Masinga, dated 26 May 2010:
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate MT Masinga, an Additional Magistrate at Emlazi, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office as a magistrate, reports as follows:
1) Mr Masinga appeared in the Durban Magistrates Court on 19 March 2009 on a charge of contravening section 17(a) read with section 7 of the Domestic Violence Act 116 of 1998. It is alleged that he assaulted his wife with a blunt axe, kicked and hit her with open hands and threatened to kill her. He also assaulted his daughter. The criminal proceedings were postponed to 14 April 2009 and then transferred to the Regional Magistrate’s Court where he appeared on additional charges of attempted murder and two counts of assault.
2) On 14 July 2009, the Magistrate’s Commission informed Mr Masinga that it was considering recommending that he be provisionally suspended from office pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office.
3) On 26 November 2009, after considering his response, the Commission recommended that the Minister provisionally suspend Mr Masinga from office.
4) The Commission is of the view that there is reliable evidence indicating that the allegation against Mr Masinga is of such a serious nature that:
• It would be inappropriate for him to perform the functions of a
Magistrate while the allegations are being investigated.
• It would be inappropriate for him to be on the Bench while
appearing in court to face charges of attempted murder and assault.
• Without anticipating the outcome of the investigation into his
fitness to hold office, the evidence against Mr Masinga is of such
a serious nature that it would justify his removal from office if
he is found guilty of the misconduct charges brought against him.
5) On the 3 February 2010, the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development, on the advice of the Magistrates Commission provisionally suspended Mr Masinga from office.
6) In terms of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993, Parliament must pass a resolution on whether to confirm the provisional suspension of a magistrate.
7) Recommendation
1. The Committee notes that almost a year passed from the time Mr
Masinga first appeared in court to his provisional suspension.
Although the Committee acknowledges that the Commission must
ensure that due process takes place, it is incorrect that it
would be possible for a Magistrate to continue to perform
judicial functions while facing such serious charges.
2. Having considered the Commission’s report on the provisional
suspension of Mr MT Masinga, the Committee recommends that the
National Assembly confirms the provisional suspension, pending
the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the provisional suspension from office of Magistrate WJM Prinsloo, dated 26 May 2010:
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate WJM Prinsloo, an Additional Magistrate at Ermelo, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office as a magistrate, reports as follows:
1) An investigation by the Magistrates Commission confirmed that 10 complaints by a female clerk (the complainant) employed at the Ermelo Magistrate’s Office were filed against Mr Prinsloo. It is alleged that during the period 18 April 2008 to 5 May 2008, he had on 10 occasions conducted himself in an unbecoming manner by phoning the complainant and leaving lewd and suggestive messages for her.
2) On 14 July 2009, the Commission requested Mr Prinsloo to show cause why a decision to provisionally suspend him from duty pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office should not be taken. In his response, Mr Prinsloo requested the Commission not to suspend him and stated the following: a) The incidents happened more that a year ago. No similar incidents had occurred since then. b) The incidents happened during a difficult time in his personal life. c) The criminal case has already been withdrawn against him. d) The dispute between him and the complainant has already been resolved through mediation. e) One of the resolutions made during the mediation process was that the complainant would request that all criminal and misconduct steps against him be withdrawn. Once all criminal and misconduct steps have been withdrawn, Mr Prinsloo would apply for a transfer as soon as posts are advertised.
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The complainant confirmed in writing that a successful mediation process has taken place.
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On 26 November 2009, the Commission after considering Mr Prinsloo’s response and the complainant’s letter, as well as further representations, resolved to recommend that Mr Prinsloo be provisionally suspended from office. The following weighed with the Commission:
• The allegations are of such a serious nature that it would be inappropriate for Mr Prinsloo to perform his functions while they are being investigated, and should they prove to be true, he would be liable to be removed from office. • Given public opinion on the abuse of women by men, Mr Prinsloo’s continued service would damage the image of the judiciary, and may be considered to indicate insensitivity. • Judicial officers are expected to be exemplary to inspire confidence in the administration of justice. Although the allegations have still to be proved, their moral depravity is such that Mr Prinsloo should be suspended from office in the meantime. The matter has also received media attention.
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On the 3 February 2010 the Minister provisionally suspended Mr Prinsloo. In terms of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993, Parliament must, as soon as is reasonably possible, pass a resolution as to whether or not the provisional suspension of a magistrate is confirmed.
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Recommendation
Having considered the Report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate Prinsloo, the Committee recommends that the National Assembly confirms the provisional suspension, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office. Report to be considered.
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Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the provisional suspension from office of Magistrate MK Chauke, dated 26 May 2010:
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate MK Chauke, an Additional Magistrate at Pretoria, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office as a magistrate, reports as follows:
1) Mr Chauke appeared before the Specialised Commercial Crime Court on a charge of theft of a number of containers from Vitamine Laboratories on 18 September 2004. The matter was postponed several times to allow him to secure the services of an attorney.
2) At a meeting held on 25 August 2005, the Commission resolved to recommend to the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development that Mr Chauke be provisionally suspended from office pending an inquiry into his fitness to hold office.
3) On 7 November 2005, the Commission charged him with misconduct and caused a written notice in terms of section 13(3) to be served on him. Acting on the advice of the Commission, the then Minister provisionally suspended Mr Chauke from office with effect from 13 December 2005.
4) On 8 November 2007, Mr Chauke, his wife and son were convicted of contravening section 37 of the General Laws Amendment Act 62 of
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5) Following his conviction, Mr Chauke was invited to furnish reasons why his remuneration should not be withheld. After considering the matter, the Commission further resolved to determine to withhold his remuneration in terms of section 13(4A)(a) of the Magistrates Act on 22 November 2007. Parliament confirmed both the provisional suspension and the withholding of remuneration.
6) On 20 November 2007, Mr Chauke’s attorneys advised the Commission that they were instructed to appeal against his criminal conviction. The Commission did not proceed with the misconduct inquiry against him pending the outcome of the matter on appeal. The appeal was heard on 8 March 2010 and the Commission is awaiting judgement.
7) Mr Chauke instituted legal proceeding in the then Transvaal Provincial Division of the High Court. On 7 March 2008, the Court declared that his provisional suspension had lapsed and set aside the Commission’s determination to withhold his remuneration.
8) Section 13(3)(e) Of the Magistrate’s Act provides that the provisional suspension of a magistrate in terms of paragraph (a) lapses after 60 days from the date of the suspension, unless the Commission, within that period, commences its inquiry into the allegation in question by causing a written notice containing the allegation concerned to be served on the magistrate. The Commission was of the view that it had complied with this section by serving Mr Chauke with the notice to charge him with misconduct.
9) A letter, dated 7 September 2009, setting out three charges of misconduct, was sent to Mr Chauke. He acknowledged receipt in writing on 10 September 2009. By the direction of the Commission’s Executive Committee, Mr Chauke was charged afresh with misconduct. The new charge sheet was also served on him personally. No representations have been received from him regarding the charges. The Commission intends to proceed with the misconduct inquiry shortly.
10) On the 5 February 2010 the Minister provisionally suspended Mr
Chauke. In terms of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993,
Parliament must, as soon as is reasonably possible, pass a
resolution as to whether or not the provisional suspension of a
magistrate is confirmed.
Recommendation
Having considered the Report on the provisional suspension of
Magistrate MK Chauke, the Committee recommends that the National
Assembly confirms the provisional suspension, pending the outcome of
an investigation into his fitness to hold office as required in terms
of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993.
Report to be considered.
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Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the provisional suspension from office of Magistrate D Jacobs, dated 26 May 2010:
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate D Jacobs, a Magistrate at Clocolan, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office as a magistrate, reports as follows:
1) An investigation instituted by the Ethics Division of the Commission confirmed that Mr Jacobs suffers from severe alcohol dependency to such an extent that he is unable to perform his judicial functions effectively and efficiently.
2) The Committee was told that ‘no stone was left unturned’ in trying to assist Mr Jacobs: He had been admitted to rehabilitation centres on at least two occasions. The first occasion had shown good results, but Mr Jacobs defaulted when admitted for the second time.
3) 0n 13 January 2010, the Commission invited Mr Jacobs to show cause why a decision to provisionally suspend him from duty pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office should not be taken.
4) Having considered the allegations and his representations, on 25 February 2010 the Commission resolved to provisionally suspend Mr Jacobs from office on the following grounds: • Existing evidence against him is of such a serious nature as to make it inappropriate for him to perform the functions of a magistrate while the allegations are being investigated • He has been admitted for rehabilitation at least twice. In the past 3 to 5 years, his colleagues had advised Mr Jacobs on many occasions to seek professional help. Discussions held with him as recently as January 2010 appeared not to have yielded any results. • In disciplinary matters of a similar nature, the Commission resolved to recommend that the magistrate be provisionally suspended from office. • The existing evidence against Mr Jacobs is of such a serious nature that it would justify his removal from office should he be found guilty of the misconduct charges preferred against him. He is at present an embarrassment to the judiciary, and temporary placement or use at another office would not address the problem either.
5) On 30 March 2010 the Minister provisionally suspended Mr Jacobs. In terms of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993, Parliament must, as soon as is reasonably possible, pass a resolution as to whether or not the provisional suspension of a magistrate is confirmed.
6) Recommendation Having considered the Report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate D Jacobs, the Committee recommends that the National Assembly confirms the provisional suspension, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office.
Report to be considered.
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Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the provisional suspension from office of Magistrate L B Maruwa, dated 26 May 2010:
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate LB Maruwa, an Additional Magistrate at Davyton, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office as a magistrate, reports as follows:
1) Mr Maruwa appeared before the Springs Regional Court on 11 counts of fraud on 24 August 2007. On 14 November 2008 he pleaded not guilty to all charges. The case was remanded on several occasions. He was charged in that he wrongfully, falsely and with the intent to defraud gave out and pretended that:
• The court in which he presided was properly constituted in that the prosecutor in his capacity as a prosecutor was present. • The prosecutor put charges to the accused who committed the traffic offence. • The prosecutor had no address on the merits. • The prosecutor proved no previous convictions. • The prosecutor had the opportunity to take part in the subsequent enquiries in terms of section 170(1) of Act 51 of 1977 for the failure of the accused to appear in court in the listed traffic offences reflected in the charge sheet.
2) On 29 September 2009, Mr Maruwa was convicted of fraud on all 11 counts. He was sentenced to a fine of R5000.00 or 12 months imprisonment. Mr Maruwa paid the fine.
3) On 6 October 2009, the Commission invited Mr Maruwa to show reason why a decision to provisionally suspend him from duty pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office should not be taken. 4) Having considered the allegations and his representations, the Commission at its meeting held on 26 November 2009 resolved to provisionally suspend Mr Maruwa from office on the following grounds: • The allegations against him are of such a serious nature that it would justify his removal from office, should he be found guilty of the misconduct charges against him. • The conviction of fraud on eleven counts by a court of law are of such a serious nature as to make it inappropriate for him to perform the functions of a magistrate while the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office is investigated. • It is inappropriate for a judicial officer, convicted of fraud, to sit on the Bench. This undermines the dignity and image of the Bench.
5) On 10 February 2010, the Minister provisionally suspended Mr Maruwa. In terms of section 13(3)(c) of the Magistrates Act, 1993, Parliament must, as soon as is reasonably possible, pass a resolution as to whether or not the provisional suspension of a magistrate is confirmed.
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Recommendation
Having considered the Report on the provisional suspension of Magistrate LB Maruwa, the Committee recommends that the National Assembly confirms the provisional suspension, pending the outcome of an investigation into his fitness to hold office.
Report to be considered.