I move—

During the course of the debate yesterday I asked the Minister a question with regard to carbonic acid gas. I understand he said he would consider the matter during the recess. At the same time reference was made to the Minister of Finance, and he asked if I could suggest how customs duties could be placed on the importation of articles without increasing the cost of living. I would like to ask the Minister of Railways if he knows of a single instance where a tax has been placed on the importation of any article without increasing the cost of living.

This question of motor competition on the part of the Railway Department is seriously affecting motor services here in Cape Town. There is one service which has been built up at considerable cost, contributes a considerable amount of revenue to the state, and has a considerable passenger service which is in no way competing with the Minister’s Railway Department. In fact, they had included motor tours to Knysna, and they withdrew them the moment the Minister opened up his Knysna line. When the Minister put on his motor service to the docks this particular service, which was serving a valuable need in Cape Town, was withdrawn in deference to the railway competition. I would like to ask the Minister whether that docks motor service is returning a profit to the Administration, or whether it is being run at a loss. There is very grave concern on the part of this particular enterprise at the possibility of the Minister coming here during the Cape season, and as it were, skimming the milk of the tourist traffic, as it is alleged has been done in Durban. I want to ask whether he proposes entering into competition with private enterprise in regard to these tourist motor services, which have been running in the Peninsula. I refer to the tours to Sir Lowry Pass, Cape Point and various other services which are run throughout the year. Private enterprise has, of course, no chance of competing with the department in view of the fact that the Government pays no customs duty, returns no revenue, and pays no licence fees, and I understand the pay given by the Railway Department to their motor-bus drivers is not that which is ordered by the wage determination award which was made applicable to these private motor drivers. I would like to know whether the Minister and his department propose to extend this tourist traffic here during the season in open competition with the motor-bus services, which are in no way competing with the department. If the Minister does propose to extend the sphere of his operations, is he going to make the service one which is merely going to serve the public during the season, and leave the public in the off-season without any service at all? Motor Charabancs. Limited, are returning a fair measure of revenue to the state, and serving the public’s need at a very fair price. The average charge is l½d. per mile, and, as run by the Government, the price has not been in any way comparable with the service provided by private enterprise.

I am sorry I have to trouble the Minister on a matter of detail when we are now busy discussing the principles, but I could not raise the point earlier. It is a matter of very great importance—the position of the station yard at Caledon. For a considerable number of years there has been an agitation to have a subway or a bridge as an approach to the station. Several fatal accidents have occurred there. The department has insisted on a contribution from the divisional council and the municipality on the £ for £ principle, but it appears almost impossible to get these public bodies to agree on this contribution. Both have to bear great financial burdens. This road is virtually the main road between Caledon and Bredasdorp, and the Railway Department came along and put the station in such a position that it is necessary to have this crossing. Notwithstanding the danger that exists there, and has existed there for a long time, the department is continuing to lay more rails; I am not certain, but I think there must be a dozen. Business is increasing at a very great rate, and the result is the danger has been very much accentuated. Sometimes trucks stand in such a position that if you, cross one set you are up against another. Very sad accidents, as the Minister knows, have taken place there. He also knows the position of Elgin station, where the people are very badly housed. I am very pleased he has extended the shed accommodation for the fruit farmers. A commission, appointed by the Minister, at the request of the farmers, about three years ago, made a thorough inspection, and were impressed with the unsatisfactory state of the buildings for housing purposes, the stationmaster and other officers of the department being very badly housed. That station returns a very high revenue to the department. The Minister gave the impression that he would consider the position and make provision on the estimates for an improvement at Elgin, but, although I have carefully scanned the estimates, I find ho provision made for this. I am certain the Minister will, in the near future, give this matter his attention, and will give some relief.

I should like to draw the Minister’s attention to a matter in connection with the increase which he has given to railway labourers. If they were two years in the service they were to get 6d. more, and, after a further, year, an additional 6d. Now it seems to be that there is considerable misunderstanding, and the people think that they will only get the 6d. more after four years, and I should like the Minister to say what the position is. Another matter is the transhipping of coal at Laingsburg. Provision was formerly made to tranship coal arriving by train at Laingsburg, but the people have now been removed, and the coal is now taken to Touws River, transhipped there, and brought back by train. It seems to me that this causes unnecessary expense, as the train takes the coal there and brings it back. I shall be glad if the Minister will see that coal is once more transhipped at Laingsburg. Moreover, it would assist the people in that dry area a bit if they could earn something in this way.

We have had a considerable agitation recently with regard to slum property, agitation which is quite necessary, and I would like to ask the Minister to take into consideration the advisability of getting rid of certain houses on the approach to Woodstock station, belonging to the Railway Department. These are let at a very small rental. Generally the approach is in such a wretched condition that it would be in the interests of this very densely populated place if those houses were demolished. I would like to draw attention to another matter, and that is, with the construction of the Woltemade line, very great inconvenience is caused to the public in regard to the approaches to Woodstock beach. I hope the Minister will take into account the advisability of having more subways under that line. We should take more interest in those people, who are mostly of the poorer citizens, and desire to have easy access to the beach.

I also want to make a few remarks in connection with the circular which the hon. member for Ladismith (Mr. J. J. M. van Zyl has referred to. This circular is quite plain, and it says that those who have served for two years will receive 6d. extra per day, and those with three years’ service another 6d. Unfortunately, this circular has not been carried out. I can assure the Minister that there are people with more than three years’ service who have not received the extra pay. This I do not myself understand, and I shall, therefore, be glad if the Minister will give us some information about it, and if he will enquire into the matter. Then it is also a fact that labourers who formerly got an extra 3d. a day have not now received the increase of 6d. I hope the Minister will also look into this and see that all the labourers are treated according to the circular issued.

I am sorry to see that the Minister has not made any provision for the development of the Salt River—Cape Flats line. I have spoken of this before, and I think the Minister is really in favour of it. It is all the more important because of the housing question. If the Minister makes this land accessible, it means that more land will be available for a cheaper class of dwelling. Therefore, access to the Cape Flats is important. It will also make that line earn more money. Quite a lot of passenger traffic could be secured if the train service were good. I would also like the Minister to consider whether he could grant lower second and third class fares for areas close to big towns. If we could have cheap fares for such areas, it would make a great difference to the possibility of the poorer classes living on cheap land outside the cities, instead of on dear land in the centre of those cities. This would also assist in the solution of the housing question by making the provision of cheaper houses possible, and assisting people to whom every penny is of importance in their monthly budget to get outside the slum areas. With regard to the development of this line, I hope the Administration will not wait until private enterprise takes up the matter of transport. Private enterprise is competing severely with the railway at present in the form of motor traffic, and the Administration should not wait until the competition comes along and then squeal because they do not get the traffic.

Don’t you notice that private enterprise is squealing this morning?

I am talking about the squealing of the Railway Administration. For six or seven, years the railways have had a monopoly of the traffic to Pinelands. Years ago they could have competed successfully with any bus traffic, but, naturally, it, is a temptation to a private individual when he finds the railways are not sufficiently enterprising to serve the public adequately, to come in and give the public the service they require. I ask the Minister to consider the development of this line.

The hon. members for Ladismith (Mr. J. J. M. van Zyl) and Fordsburg (Mr. Pretorius) spoke about the paying of white labourers. There is apparently some misunderstanding, and the position is that the labourers only get a rise of 6d. a day after two years’ service, and that after they have drawn 5s. 6d. for a year, they get a further increase of 6d.. so, that at the beginning Of the fourth year of service they get 6s. The hon. member for Fordsburg says that in some cases they do not get the increases. If he will let me know of such cases they will be investigated. Then the hon. member for Ladismith spoke about the transhipment of coal at Touws River, and pleaded that it should be done at Laingsburg. The matter was investigated on previous representations of the hon. members, but the officials, after careful enquiry, came to the conclusion that it was in the best interests of the railways to have the transhipment done at Touws River. Laingsburg has advantages in some respects, hut the advantages of Touws River, which have existed for years, are greater. I want to add that when the maize traffic is extraordinarily great, coal is, in fact, temporarily transhipped at Laingsburg.

† The hon. member for Newlands (Mr. Stuttaford) raises the question of Salt River and Pinelands. We have already acquired the land, and it is now simply a question of whether we can justify the expenditure of a fairly large amount of money. While I agree with him with regard to the desirability of the line. I am not in agreement with him that we would be justified in embarking on further, capital expenditure on that particular line. I do not want to enter into discussion with regard to road competition with the railways, the question of private enterprise raised by the hon. member, and the hon. member for Cape Town (Central) (Mr. Bowen). It would be premature for me to do that. Hon. members are inclined to think that all this motor competition is due to inefficiency of the state railways. Let me disabuse the minds of. hon. members. We have not suffered from motor competition to anything like the extent of the British railways. Through the efficiency of our service in South Africa we have been able to withstand motor competition, probably because we are further away from Europe, but we have certainly stood it far better than railways have stood it in Belgium, Germany, France, America and Great Britain, where private companies are competing with railways. I think we should leave the matter of motor competition to the commission until they have reported to the House and to the country, and, next year, I hope We shall be able to introduce a measure dealing with the whole question, when the matter can be debated. When the hon. member for Cape Town (Central) (Mr. Bowen) spoke, we had the matter of private enterprise brought up, so that the boot is not always on one leg. With regard to second and third class railway fares, I quite agree with the hon. member for Newlands (Mr. Stuttaford) that, if we could get the working classes to live outside the city, it would be better. The introduction of workmen’s tickets has helped things considerably, and we shall do all we can to get people to live, out of these congested areas. With reference to the remarks of the hon. member for Woodstock (Mr. Buirski) on private houses at Woodstock station, I shall consult the officers of my department on this matter. The hon. member has also asked for move subways to be made to enable the inhabitants of Woodstock to approach the beach. The whole matter of these subways formed the subject of long [negotiations with the City Council, and, after these long negotiations, we have come to an agreement which will mean a large increase in the sum I am asking Parliament for. I am afraid we shall not be able to do anything more at present. The hon. member for Caledon (Mr. Krige) spoke of the station yard. I cannot go further than I went yesterday when I said that public local bodies must be prepared to share in the cost of these facilities, and if the good people of Caledon will provide the necessary money on a fifty-fifty basis, I am prepared to consider the matter. With regard to the housing position at Elgin, it is realized that it is not satisfactory, but the needs of Elgin will not be overlooked when the money is available. Another hon. member said that when you raise the customs duties the cost of living must go up, but I do not agree with him. Take, for example, the case of boots and shoes. The duty has been increased from 27 per cent. to 30 per cent., and the price of hoots and shoes has not gone up. What is the reason? Because, as a result of this protection policy, you have many boot factories in the country, and they are competing amongst themselves. This also refers to many other articles. I now move the second reading of the Bill.

Motion put and agreed to.

Bill read a second time; House to go into committee now.

House In Committee:

Clauses, schedule and title put and agreed to.

House Resumed:

Bill reported without amendment and read a third time.

I move—

This Bill merely validates the resolutions we arrived at on the report of the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants and Gratuities.

Mr. M. L. MALAN seconded.

Motion put and agreed to.

Bill brought up and read a first time.

I move, as an unopposed motion—

Mr. M. L. MALAN seconded.

Agreed to.

Bill read a second time; House to go into committee now.

House In Committee:

Clauses, schedule and title put and agreed to.

House Resumed:

Bill reported without amendment and read a third time.

Business suspended at 11.53 a.m. and resumed at 4.9 p.m.

I move, as an unopposed motion—

The reason of this motion is plain. The committees of the two Houses would have to meet in connection with this matter, but that is not possible at this stage. They will meet next session and discuss it, and I do not doubt but that the offer will be accepted.

Mr. M. L. MALAN seconded.

I would like to point out that if the answer is simply in the terms the Prime Minister has stated, the object he has evidently in view may be defeated, because as the answer reads now it seems an apparent rejection of the offer, whereas I understand the intention of the Prime Minister is that the matter should he pursued next session. I think words to that effect should be added; that the subject cannot be pursued now as we are at the end of a session, but we hope to do so afterwards. The answer might be misconstrued as it stands now and might be taken to imply a refusal of the offer.

I will add at the end—

Yes, just some words should be added to indicate that the matter will be submitted to both Houses of Parliament next session.

Motion put and agreed to.

On the motion that the House do now adjourn,

I hope the necessary proclamation proroguing Parliament will appear on Monday.