Sir, when the debate terminated last evening, the hon. member for Piketberg, in the course of his speech, severely criticized the hon. member for Johannesburg North for recommending that as a matter of urgent national importance wage increases should be given to the non-White workers in this country. The hon. member for Piketberg saw fit to criticize what I regard as a highly responsible speech, drawing the attention of the country to matters that need urgent attention. In the course of his speech the hon. member said that we on this side of the House only see one side of the picture. He almost inferred that we were quite irresponsible in recommending that higher wages should be paid without a commensurate increase in productivity. Sir, I would like to ask the hon. member for Piketberg whether he realizes that in recent times there has been such an escalation in the cost of living that apart from any other factor, the question of increasing the pay of the poorer people is a matter of urgent necessity. Sir, when we look at the figures to see what happened to the cost of living last year, we see that there was an increase of up to 25% in the price of many foodstuffs. Those items which showed the biggest increase in price—items like meat, bread, milk and butter—are items which the poorer people simply cannot afford to go without, and if they do not get an increase in their wages it simply means they have to make do with less. Already we know from figures that have been given to us that there are many people in South Africa living below the poverty datum line, and if they are not given an increase in wages, it means that they are going to live even further below the poverty datum line, and if that situation arises, then it must surely have a very drastic effect on the output of these people. What is worse, Sir, is this: It is not only the output of the worker that is affected, but it is the ability of these people’s children who have to attend schools and who are inadequately fed that is even more severely affected. Their ability to assimilate what is provided by way of education is very drastically affected.

Mr. Speaker, you will recall that many times in this House we on this side have recommended that school-feeding schemes should be instituted and that they should be supported by the State, for this very reason that the families are not receiving sufficiently high wages to feed their families adequately. I think it is a fact that many Bantu and Coloured children attending school today do not have a sufficiently balanced diet to enable them to assimilate what they are taught at school.

As far as this question of the poverty datum line is concerned, I wonder if the hon. member for Piketberg is aware of the figures taken out in the Port Elizabeth-Uitenhage area by the Port Elizabeth University and published in this morning’s Cape Times, in which it is stated—

I want to ask the hon. member for Piketberg: If provision is not made for this escalating cost of living, as is proved by these figures, how must these people live?

I have no objection to that.

The hon. member says that he has no objection to that. Sir, he criticized the hon. member for Johannesburg North for only dealing with one side of the problem. I think it is generally known that the one thing that we on this side of the House have raised in almost every debate, ever since I have been in this House, is this question of productivity. The hon. member says that we did not raise that aspect of the problem, namely that there must be an increase in productivity if you want to pay increased wages. But, Sir, we have raised this matter time and time again. In fact, if we had to change our name, which will never happen, we could well be called the Productivity Party, because this is the thing which we have emphasized time and time again. Way back in 1964—and I refer hon. members opposite to Hansard No. 21—my hon. leader made an accurate forecast of what he anticipated the manpower shortage in South Africa would be at about this time. There he indicated that there would be a shortage of skilled labour in the region of 30 000 to 34 000 workers, and subsequent to that he came forward with a well-motivated programme, which he called a crash training programme, and what was the reaction from that side of the House? All they said was “Crash, crash, crash”; that was the response to a very responsible recommendation. Sir, if I look at the results of the recent election at Umhlatuzana, then I think it is obvious that the “crash” applies to this Government, and I think from the point of view of the interests of South Africa, the quicker that crash comes the better.

And what about Colesberg?

Sir, let me also say this for the edification of the hon. member for Piketberg. In 1969 the hon. member for Hillbrow came forward with a Manpower Training Bill, in which he made far-reaching recommendations as to how we should set about training the available manpower in South Africa. Sir, what was the Government’s response? They voted against it; they would not even consider it. My answer to the hon. member for Piketberg is that this side of the House recognizes that productivity is a vitally important matter at this stage. It recognizes that increased wages must go hand in hand with increased productivity, but at the same time I think the hon. member for Piketberg will agree that in the present situation of escalating costs, it is highly desirable that something should be done immediately to pay the non-Whites a decent level of remuneration.

Now, Sir, I would like to refer to some of the many problems which face the agricultural industry. I find it extraordinary that at this time one can read a report like the following in the newspapers. I have a cutting here from the Argus of the 3rd April, which says—

Then it goes on to say that they would discuss potential markets in Africa generally with the officials there, and then—

Reference is also made to the fact that they might decide to buy some butter. Now, if one listens to the hon. members opposite and to their glowing reports about our agricultural industry, then I want to ask the hon. the Minister why it is necessary that we should be importing vital foodstuffs at this stage.

Because there is a Nationalist Government in power.

I realize there are problems of drought and other restricting influences, but if at this stage in our history, with a population of approximately 20 million people, we are importing essential foodstuffs, what will the position be when that population grows to 40 million? How does the hon. the Minister anticipate that he will ever be able to meet that problem? It is for this reason that we on this side of the House have consistently recommended that there should be established here an advisory planning council for agriculture. We realize the problems of agriculture. Sir, you and I both realize that we have a difficult climate. We do not have a country with a high rainfall and a great deal of fertile land. That is all the more reason why we should apply ourselves more diligently and plan more carefully for the future to see that we are able to meet the targets that we set up. This is not happening in our department today. I think these are matters to which the hon. the Minister must give very serious consideration.

Referring to the speech made by the hon. member for Wolmaransstad in this debate, the hon. member posed certain questions on the agricultural industry. I want to say that the hon. member was very wise. He said he decided to ask himself some questions about agriculture. But I must say he made quite sure that the questions he posed himself were so simple that he would have the capacity to answer them. He asked whether agriculture was fulfilling its role and whether the farmers were fulfilling their role, and he answered that in the affirmative. But I want to say a word or two about how we on this side of the House see agriculture and its future role.

We believe that agriculture has acquired a completely new significance in the last 10 or 15 years right throughout the world, but nowhere more so than in South Africa. Sir, gone are the days when farming was merely a way of life for the odd 100 000 or 90 000, or now perhaps only 80 000, farmers in South Africa. Gone are the days when farming was a profession and when it could be looked upon just as another way of life. The population explosion throughout the world—and South Africa has not been missed out—has brought about a transformation and today every citizen has a stake in the agricultural industry. When we discuss agriculture we are not thinking just of the interest of the farmers of the platteland; we are also thinking about the interest of every single citizen of South Africa. In the first place, this transformation lies in the fact that everybody has a stake in agriculture and I believe that the hon. the Minister of Agriculture is the most important Minister in the whole of the Cabinet.

Hear, hear!

He has an important duty. He has to feed the people of South Africa. If he does not provide the grub, the army of the hon. the Minister of Defence cannot move. I think this is what the people are beginning to realize today. There is a realization by the average citizen that the quality and the quantity of the food they are able to buy and the price they have to pay for it depends on how efficiently this Minister does his job. I think that that fact is dawning on the average citizen and I hope that the members of the Press will in future when we discuss agriculture, be here, and that this House will not be empty of members. That often happens because people think we are discussing only the interests of 80 000 farmers. But we are discussing the wellbeing and the interests of every citizen in South Africa: the Whites, the Coloureds, the Indians and the Bantu. It is for this reason that we of the United Party pay particular attention to the problems affecting agriculture. When hon. members opposite say that because we do not have so many representatives on the platteland we are not capable of dealing with agricultural problems, I reject that with contempt. We are as interested in the problems of agriculture as anybody has ever been in South Africa. I was surprised at the haste with which the hon. member for Colesberg was ushered into this House. We naturally welcome him very much but it almost gave me the impression as if the hon. members representing agriculture on the opposite side of this House felt that they needed a little reinforcement in the face of the onslaught the United Party was making on them.

Now the hon. member for Wolmaransstad referred to a meeting which he called in his constituency, a meeting to which 3 000 farmers flocked. We on this side of the House have no objection to the hon. the Minister having as much dialogue as he can with the farmers of South Africa. We believe that is the right thing. The farmers like to meet the Minister and to discuss their problems with him. But what gave rise to this meeting, Sir? It was the fact that 3 000 farmers were uncertain about what this Government was going to do to assist them with the problems they were facing as the result of a serious drought. They were deeply concerned. There had not been sufficient rain. They were not able to plant. They did not know what agterskot they were going to get for their mealies. They were in dire distress. They did not know what the Minister’s blueprint was in respect of drought assistance when droughts strike certain areas. That is why they came. I say that if this agricultural department was properly planned, the farmers knew what to expect and if the blueprint was there it would not have been necessary to have a meeting of 3 000 farmers. The hon. the Minister said the agterskot had been decided and that he had announced it. I hope the hon. the Minister will tell us what that agterskot in fact is, because we never saw it in the Press and we believe that had he announced it, it would have been given great prominence in the Press. We hope to get it from him when he replies to this debate.

It will be announced on the 15th April.

Why? The meeting was in January.

I say that if ever this Minister had a golden opportunity to regain some of the lost ground in agriculture, lost due to the department’s unwillingness to introduce long-term forward planning into the administration of agriculture in South Africa, then that opportunity was lost during the recent drought.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about this drought. It is a subject which neither you nor I, Sir, like and I think you will agree with me, Sir, that the right time to plan for a drought is when you are having lots of rain because then you have time to manoeuvre. Do not wait until the pressure of the drought is so bad that you can no longer make plans to alleviate the situation. We are grateful that we have had these good rains, and I think the country generally is flourishing from that point of view at present. However, now is the time to discuss it and I should like to say to the hon. the Minister that the handling of the drought situation during the recent drought left a great deal to be desired. The hon. the Minister should know, and I hope his department was aware of the fact that for months the country was being ravaged by one of the most serious droughts. This recent one was one of the most serious droughts that we have ever experienced. Early in January this year certain areas in the Karoo—I am talking of the area about which I know—applied to be declared drought-stricken in order to get those concessions which the Government gives when a district is declared drought-stricken. This application was handled by the very machinery that this hon. the Minister had created, the very machinery that his department had set up. The investigations were carried out by the extension officer. A survey was made in terms of the Minister’s mandate by a Government-nominated soil conservation committee. The director of the region investigated the situation. They made a recommendation that certain districts should be declared drought-stricken. What was the reply? In spite of this extensive survey, the application was turned down because the department said that the country was merely suffering from a seasonal drought. I cannot believe that a department can be so out of touch with reality as to give a reply that the country is suffering from a seasonal drought when, in fact, it was suffering from one of the worst droughts in the history of agriculture in South Africa.

Farmer haters !

When we talk about the question of drought and the assistance that the Government should give, we are not only interested in the farmers. If timeous steps are not taken to alleviate the problem of drought, to get fodder from those places where fodder is plentiful to those places where fodder is in short supply, it means stock are going to die. What happened? I believe that hundreds of stock died in this recent drought, stock that should never have died had timeous action been taken. At this time when every lamb should be saved, where every sheep should be saved, we cannot afford that the lack of proper co-ordination should allow sheep to die. This does affect the housewife. My hon. colleague said that in the butcher shops in Long Street you could not find a sheep carcass, that mutton was not available. However, the situation will get worse if we do not take timeous action to alleviate the effects of drought and to save those sheep that will die if action is not taken.

Look what they are now doing in Rhodesia already.

I do not know whether the hon. the Minister and the Chief Whip are discussing agriculture, but if I may have his attention I should like to ask him why certain very important feedstuffs are excluded from qualification for rail tariff rebates. I ask the hon. the Minister if he knows that a new meal that is produced from molasses by a certain private enterprise in Natal, a new product which is a complete break-through in so far as our country is concerned, a product that is receiving the attention of stock feeders all over the world …

What is the name of it?

Molo-meal.

It is now included.

The hon. the Minister says that it is now included, but why was it not included at the time? Why do we have to make representations first? It is the duty of this hon. the Minister’s department to encourage people to use the right kind of feedstuffs. Mr. Speaker, there is a tremendous volume of low-grade wheat that could be an excellent stockfeed, if it could only be got to the farmer. There has thus far been no recommendation from the department that all this wheat must be used and turned into red meat to feed the people in Cape Town. They just leave the matter and much of the wheat eventually is wasted. Low-grade wheat is excellent feedstuff but it is not on the list. Why should these things be taking place in, as we are told by hon. members on the other side, a very well-administered department?

Another problem arises. If the hon. the Minister does not see that we are getting the optimum utilization of all available feedstuff in South Africa, it means very often that many of the livestock that are in fact marketed, are marketed in poor condition. What happened in the drought? Hundreds and hundreds of our sheep that were in no fit condition to be slaughtered were sent to the abattoirs. We might well have had a repetition of the situation which was pointed out by the hon. member for East London North a year or two ago of cats on the hook, something which drew headlines all over South Africa.

Cats?

If that hon. member, who knows more about the fishing industry, would like to know what “cats on the hook” is, it is an under-nourished sheep which was slaughtered when only half fat. When this happens, hundreds and hundreds of tons of meat are wasted. This is the sort of thing in which the housewife of South Africa is interested, and that is why she is interested today in this hon. Minister’s department.

I now want to refer also to the speech made by the hon. member for Bethal. He raised some very interesting subjects in his speech. Some of these are matters which have been raised by us on this side of the House time and time again. He raised the important factor of agricultural finances. If any one single factor is vitally important for the well-being of our agricultural industry, it is a sound financing organization to finance the industry. By no stretch of the imagination can it be said that sufficient progress has been made in this particular field. I think the methods by which we finance agriculture in South Africa are antiquated and out of date. We have been saying that the time has arrived when we need a central agricultural financing organization to bring under one umbrella the functions of both the Department of Agriculture Credit and Land Tenure and the Land Bank. I hope that this matter will receive the urgent attention of the Minister and that he will give us some indication of how he intends tackling this problem in the future. Here I would like to have the attention of the hon. the Minister of Finance, because this is a very important point. I want to support the hon. member for Bethal when he says that a tremendous amount of the capital generated by the agricultural industry is flowing out of the industry. It is invested in building societies and other sectors of the economy. We believe and I think the hon. member for Bethal too, that this capital should be induced to the Land Bank by making certain special tax concessions for that capital which farmers have available to invest. If this capital is taken up by the Land Bank on a tax-free basis it will not only help the farming community but it will also help the Land Bank to finance agriculture more efficiently in the future. [Time expired.]

The hon. the Chief Whip said I was to have 10 minutes only, but I should like to tell the hon. member for Walmer that he mentioned a number of things with which I agree. I am pleased he emphasized the importance of agriculture and the fact that the consumer and the producer should not be regarded separately. We must make a joint attempt, that is, the city-dweller and the country-dweller, to be able to provide food for a growing population. However, the hon. member mentioned a few things with which I am unable to agree.

He is the champion of soil conservation. On a previous occasion I told that hon. member that if all the farmers were to adopt that attitude of protecting the soil, things would go well with us. He spoke of 15 districts which could not obtain listing as distress areas. I perused the papers personally. The extension officer said that applications for areas to be listed as distress areas were not justified as there was no distress on farms on which conservation farming was being practised. How are we ever going to impress soil conservation on our farmers? The drought had only been in progress for a short time when applications for areas to be listed as distress areas were received. But there are farmers who practise conservation farming who tell one straight out that because they farm according to directives, they have no problems. After all, it would not boost the cause of conservation farming if one were to approve every application for an area to be listed as a distress area.

The hundreds of sheep which supposedly died according to the hon. member, I have never heard of.

Of course many died.

What about the loss of condition?

Yes, there was a loss of condition but that sheep died is not something which has been brought to our attention. I would be obliged if the hon. member would tell me on which farms it occurred so that I may determine to what extent it happened. This creates a false impression of the Department of Agriculture allegedly allowing sheep to die at a time when there was a shortage of mutton without any action being taken by the Department. I know nothing about it. I should like to have more facts in this regard.

I now want to deal with the planning advisory council referred to by the hon. member for Newton Park and the hon. member for Walmer from time to time. In the first place I want to ask them who is to serve on this advisory council. Can hon. members, at the time when my Vote is under discussion, give me the names of the bodies which are to serve on this council. What will their function be?

Why must we give you the names?

On this council one would need a better man than Solomon. See what happens from time to time. We must plan over a long term. I tell hon. members now that that advisory council will come to me and say, “Discourage the production of wheat because we have a surplus on our hands.” And what will happen the following year. If we do not have rain we shall have to import wheat. We have 22 boards …

They will not be that stupid.

They will have to undertake long-term planning for me. Let us look at the position of butter. The hon. member for Walmer asked me why Albert Basson went overseas to import cheese and powdered milk. It is a fact. It had to be imported because there was a drought. We are self-sufficient when we are blessed with good rains. The hon. member referred to the man who lived under the breadline. Now I want to say straight out that I do not believe in praising a man at his grave. I am very sorry a man such as Dr. Diederichs has to grow old and cannot remain Minister of Finance for all times so that agriculture may always receive the treatment it is receiving at the present time. I have never yet approached him with a reasonable request on behalf of the farmer which he has refused. Have hon. members looked at the Budget? Food subsidies alone amount to R85 million. The hon. member for King William’s Town vented his spleen and cried, “A scrap of meat costs one a fortune!” But in the next breath he said, “Increase the floor price of meat!” Imagine! On the one hand he says that meat is expensive, while on the other he says that the floor price of meat should be increased.

The hon. member wants to be appointed to the council.

Let us take another look at the Budget. The subsidy on dairy products alone amounts to R10,9 million. The subsidy on wheat is R31 million.

Then the hon. member referred to the price of bread and said that it was a disgrace that the price of brown bread should be increased by 2 cents. I told hon. members explicitly that if the price of bread were not increased, the subsidy would have amounted to R52 million this year. The consumption increases continually. An increase of one cent per loaf means R15 million. Seventy per cent of our people use white bread. The Bantu eat white bread. Now the price of white bread is going to be the same as that of brown bread. Can I not get that into that hon. member’s head? If we were to leave the subsidy as it is, it would amount to more than R100 million within three years. Then hon. members say that we must reduce taxes. Surely one cannot run a business in this way. It would be a stupid Minister of Finance indeed who would allow subsidies to increase continually and reduce taxes at the same time. After all, he cannot allow our children to inherit a bankrupt estate. One must be practical.

The hon. member also referred to the meeting at Wolmaransstad. If a member of Parliament telephoned me and said he required something, that he, in fact, had a pressing need, we should remember that not one of us on either side of the House had created that need. It was as late as January and at that time not a single mealie seed had been planted. The farmers only wanted to meet me. Should I have said that I was unable to come? Now the hon. member says that the farmers are worried because there is no blueprint. How can we draw up a blueprint with the aid of that planning advisory council and ensure that Wolmaransstad will get the necessary rain in the future? One cannot draw up a blueprint for agriculture. Those 3 000 farmers were not angry with me. They asked me what we were going to do and I told them explicitly that the mealie price would be announced on 15th April. I also told them that if funds were available, we should give consideration to an emergency payment and that the new price would be adjusted depending on the position with regard to the cost of living. Yesterday the hon. member pleaded for a higher mealie price. It is very easy to sit over there and say that the mealie price has to be increased. The mealie price has its effect on the dairy industry, broilers and meat. It has its effect on everything.

In the next sentence the hon. member went on to say that food prices were rising.

Just as the increase in the price of oil.

Precisely. But you all shouted “hear, hear” and “hosanna” and said that Dr. Diederichs did the right thing by devaluing. That devaluation caused the prices of tractors and other imported implements to rise. Therefore food prices, too, have to rise.

You allow it everywhere, but only when the farmer asks for it, he does not get it.

There is no more pleasant thing in the world than to be a member of the Opposition. One can cry out for a higher mealie price and if the price of broilers rises one is still not in trouble. One must approach these matters realistically.

Those farmers of Wolmaransstad had replies to all their questions to the extent that it was possible for me to reply to them. They assembled there in an atmosphere of peace and quiet. Ten members of Parliament were present. They are people who take a real interest in the lives of their voters. We did not talk politics there. It was a decent group of farmers. I do not believe they could ever vote U.P. In that spirit we departed and they were told that the Minister of Finance would make R25 million available to the co-operatives to finance them. During the drought in 1968 R25 million was also made available to them. I can tell hon. members that only R314 000 of that amount is still outstanding. The farmer pays that money back as soon as he has a year of good rains. But the hon. member need not feel bad about the fact that we met the farmers at Wolmaransstad. The hon. member need not reproach me about that.

When we deal with my Vote we shall reply to these things one by one. I have been asked to state my policy for the agricultural industry. We shall discuss that in detail. However, I can tell you now what my policy is for the future. We must have a happy farming community, one that can put heart and soul into the matter of production. The member for Walmer is correct when he says that farming has become a business. Today it is a fine art to make the grade and to be able to make a success of agriculture. One requires a businessman in agriculture. He must have a sympathetic Government, a Government which can help him and which can lend a hand when circumstances beyond his control land him in financial difficulties. He must have a love of the soil in order to protect it so that our children, too, may one day provide food for a growing population. Will hon. members help me by letting me have the names of people who may serve on that planning advisory council so as to enable me to draw up a blueprint and so that we shall no longer have problems with droughts in the future, although I do not know whether this will be practicable. In any event, we shall give our full attention to the matter.

Mr. Speaker, just sitting and listening to the United Party makes me think of the question which the school mistress will put to the pupil in the year 2000. This question will be: “What was the United Party and what do you know about the United Party?” The pupil will reply that he does not know, and when he goes home that afternoon he will say to his father, “Teacher asked me whether I knew anything about the United Party and I said ‘No’.” To that his father will reply, “We shall go and look it up in the encyclopaedia.” There they will find the name of the United Party and a description of what it was. The description will read more or less as follows: “The United Party was a political group during the time when Vorster ruled.” The insignificance and the worthlessness of the United Party has become such a byword that I am going to drop the subject here and now.

What about Umhlatuzana?

That hon. member is very talkative, because he has of course gained a great deal of courage. When he dies politically one day, I should like to write on his tombstone an epitaph which, I think, would meet with general approval. It would read as follows—

[Interjections.] That hon. member must not be so talkative. Today, on 6th April, we commemorate Van Riebeeck Day.

You have done away with it!

In reading the book Five Hundred Years of South African History, I find one golden thread running through it, and that is that in our history over the past 500 years certain basic and indispensable concepts have been laid down. I do not want to mention all of them; I just want to mention those which I want to discuss today. The one which stands out, is that we in South Africa have developed an unparalleled and incomparable loyalty and feeling of respect towards our leaders. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, Sir De Villiers Graaff, is sitting over there. I differ radically with him and we shall never understand each other as far as basic standpoints on certain questions are concerned. We are irreconcilable as far as that is concerned, but allow me to say that although he is my political enemy, a total political enemy as far as basic political concepts are concerned, I have the highest respect for him as the leader of the United Party, the position he holds. I am not being a hypocrite when I say this. Similarly, our people also differed with the late Gen. Smuts in the field of politics, but wherever one goes in the country, one can hear that far above the political differences there is a finely interwoven feeling towards him. This is an interwoven characteristic which our people have acquired over the 500 years of its history, namely the appreciation we have for our leaders, the respect and the regard with which our leaders have been treated by friend and foe. Sir, this did not come about just like that. The things which a people does and the characteristics whith in a people which crystallize to the surface, are associated with centuries and centuries of sacrifice, elimination and sifting, and eventually those valuable characteristics crystallize out.

Sir, we stand here today on Van Riebeeck Day, and I can say with pride that our population in South Africa has not abandoned that basic, valuable, built-in component in our view of life and of the world. In order to destroy a people, certain steps must be taken. I want to read to you 14 steps which must be taken in order to destroy a people, because this links up with what I want to say: (1) Ridicule all references to its spiritual properties; (2) encourage disregard of any form of authority by urging people to obey their own impulses in the name of freedom; (3) make it difficult for wrong-doers to be found guilty and punished for crimes against society; (4) sow seeds of mistrust of law-officers, whether they are the local police or the security police; (5) import enormous quantities of drugs and put them within reach of the youth of the country; (6) divide the ethnic groups of the country against each other and incite each group to revolt; (7) remove all control over entertainment so that sexual licentiousness at its coarsest may be presented; (8) present perversion as something sensational and exciting; (9) defile the youth of the country by allowing pornography, indecency and immorality to run riot without fear of prosecution; (10) encourage subverters to stage disorderly processions, to stir up riots and damage property; (11) shun discussions on loyalty, responsibility, patriotism, duty and sacrifice in order to confirm the right to have differences of opinion; (12) convince minority elements that justice cannot be obtained through the ordinary processes of law, but through revolution; (13) establish a gulf between parent and child by encouraging them to mistrust each other’s institutions; and (14) lull the intellectual leaders into the conviction that communism and permissiveness present no threat, that not all acts of permissiveness are an inherent component of decay. The quickest way to destroy a people, is by permitting these 14 things which I have mentioned here, or some of them.

Sir, in considering what is going on among our students today, I ask myself why there should be such a world of difference between the approximately 80 000 students at our universities and the approximately 30 000 students at our technical colleges for advanced education. Sir, from the ranks of our technical high schools and colleges for advanced education, with approximately 35 000 students, we have not had one single sign of disquiet. The unrest and the things which are causing us concern are found in and come from our ordinary academic institutions.

Which ones?

I shall name them: They are those institutions which that hon. member pampers so much. Sir, I think that we have the proof of What I am saying here in a book by Colin Crouch on “Student Revolt”, in which he writes as follows—

Is that not also because they must work there?

What happens there, happens here, and there must be a reason for it, and that reason is this: In our purely academic institutions—I say this frankly—not enough work is done by some students. Sir, who are the students who are the ringleaders in pornography and who are the ringleaders with their leftist movements? They are not to be found in the medical faculties, nor in the engineering faculties, but chiefly in the social sciences.

Sir, I know what the reply will be. The reply will be that the man in the social sciences is more alert and more awake to political events, but that is not the reason. Sir, I made a random test. I saw numerous professors and lecturers, from all the universities, and with two exceptions their opinion was generally that there was still too much of a holiday atmosphere at universities and that too little work was being done in certain faculties. Sir, idleness, the unorganized nature of programmes, unfilled work programmes, are one of the basic reasons why these alarming things have been coming from certain quarters within our universities. Sir, the hon. member for Wynberg made an interjection here a moment ago.

I could not resist it.

She is a housewife; she is a mother of children, and I want to put this question to her now and I also want to put it in great earnest to the whole Press of South Africa. Sir, what Press in South Africa will publish what I have here in my hand? I am too ashamed to show it to my colleagues; as one fellow countryman to another, Sir, I am ashamed to show it to you. I would never request the Press to publish what I have here in my hand. No decent person would do that. It is lower than the lowest level of disgracefulness. Sir, I have here a publication which is circulating and in which our Prime Minister as leader is involved in the most vulgar and the most shameless way. The Leader of the Opposition and his person have also been involved in a most disgraceful way.

What publication is that?

Here I have another publication, from the University of Natal.

What is the first publication you held up?

I cannot show it.

But what is the name of the publication?

It is the Wits Student.

They are the people who throw tomatoes.

Now I say to you, Sir, that these publications are filthy and criminal. If these were individual publications, it would have been well and good, but last year we had a snap debate here and we referred to these phenomena. What I have here in my hand, is last week’s. All of them are last week’s; only one of them is last year’s. These are proof of a sustained offence against our order of life and Christian order in South Africa which we have established in this fatherland over a period of 500 years. They are the products of plunderers of our hard-won norms which through the centuries have been built and woven into our existence as civilized beings within the framework of a Christian ordering. This is an open defiance of the existing official order.

Sir, the official order in our fatherland is not maintained chiefly through laws and courts and prisons. Our official order is an interwoven product in which decency, sobriety, the ethical relationships between fellow countrymen and between subject and leader are essential components, components we cannot do without. Who are these people who write these things? They are a group of young whippersnappers who have become too big for their boots. They are irresponsible, immature, pathetic products. Of what? Of a gross lack of strict, orderly education in their homes. [Interjection.] But they are also the products of a lack of discipline at our ordinary schools and, if I have to apportion accusations, I may also say that they are the direct product of a total lack of discipline at our university institutions. But it is even more than this—and we have evidence of it. They are the products of a group of cowardly people who hide behind the students and make use of the safety afforded them by the university campus and the status of a university. By protecting the status they obtain through the university, they are hiding behind these students. They are the product of the self-appointed crusaders, such as the hon. member for Houghton, who is not present although I asked her to be present.

In referring to self-appointed crusaders, I want to add that she has never once stood up here to say one single word against these plunderers of our moral order. She has never done so. In their election campaign this was advertised boldly—this was given to me by Capt. Jack Basson, the hon. member for Sea Point:

And then this tail is added—

To that the United Party replies—

That is incorrect. That is what I said.

The self-appointed crusaders, this Progressive Party! I want to say at once that the vast majority of students at our universities are decent young people. After all, we cannot allow these irresponsible plunderers and those hiding behind them to have their way. We have, after all, an order which we must maintain in our fatherland. We pointed this out during that snap debate. We resisted this process of pollution. When the hon. member for Houghton put it to us that this was a general world phenomenon, we told her that foreign recipes could not holus-bolus be accepted here in South Africa. We made it clear that our civilization did not only consist of stone and steel constructions, but that other solid, interwoven assets and concepts were present in our civilization assets and concepts which will for ever remain valid for us. We said that we could not be measured in terms of our deeds, but in terms of what we believe in. That is our first criterion.

We pointed out that we were not dealing here with isolated cases. We pointed out that our people were deeply resentful because the person of our leader was being involved in the most repulsive, vulgar way. We held out the prospect that at some time or other there would have to be a confrontation between those people and us—we as decent people who know what it means to live in an ordered, decent State and who are committed to the preservation of perpetual values. We pointed out that for three years the hon. the Minister of National Education had to reply, at congress after congress of the Nationalist Party, to draft resolutions urging that action be taken. The State and the Government were reasonable. The Government, through its Minister, asked repeatedly that these universities and educational institutions put their own house in order. This reasonableness was not a sign of weakness. It was asked in all earnest—I repeat this—that they put their own house in order. I want to read what the hon. the Minister said during that snap debate. He said—

If it has ever been necessary to have a full-scale debate in this House on this phenomenon, then it is now. The Minister was very serious when he took up this matter with the principal of the University of the Witwatersrand. He stated in this House that we would no longer tolerate this defamation of our fatherland and could no longer put up with this disparagement of our image. Hear what that publication had to say last year—

Sir, the person who tells me that he will allow this and comes with the excuse that these are irresponsible or immature student pranks, must not talk to me. We do not consult or carry on a dialogue with each other. That person is attacking the foundations of our country and betraying the history which has been built up in South Africa over 500 years. The book I have here in my hand contains a description of suffering, but also of glorious triumphs. In the concluding chapter the writer says that there is hope and confidence for South Africa; the 500 years of history proves this to us.

What is clear to us now? It is clear that the principal of the University of the Witwatersrand is too weak and incompetent to fulfil his task.

You have no right to say that.

I say it, Sir, He cannot maintain authority. When Hoofstad had an interview with him on 28th April, 1972, they asked him this question (translation)—

Hear what he replied (translation)—

Sir, it costs our taxpayers approximately R1 000 per annum to keep a student at that university. In this respect the University of the Witwatersrand costs us up to R7 million per annum, and then the principal says that any form of authority would be a mistake. He is a democrat and therefore he ought to know, to gauge and to sense that we have no confidence in him. The duty of a democrat is to lay down his position if he feels that he has lost the confidence of the authorities, who finance him and his institution. If he has any sense of decency in him, he will resign his post and make room for a more capable man.

One thing is clear to us; we have come to the point of confrontation, to the point where these students must be examined strictly. My colleague the member for Algoa came forward with a brilliant idea in a speech he made before the Parliamentary Society in Durban. In broad outline I want to submit it here for consideration. He said that the authorities had to enter into an agreement with every student, so that it might be a matter between the student and the authorities when the authorities acted on information obtained from the university authorities to the effect that certain students were abusing their position, and so that the authorities might have access to the results achieved by those students. The Van Wyk-De Vries Report will shortly be submitted to the Minister in its entirety. I can just say that I look forward with confidence to that report. I express my heartfelt desire that publications such as the Wits Student should be banned immediately. It may not be published. It appears under the cloak of freedom. I do not have the time to read all of it, but I want to quote from a speech by the hon. member for Bezuidenhout, who was such a lively fellow last night. On 6th February, 1953, he made a speech in this House and said—

[Time expired.]

Mr. Speaker, it was my intention to return, in these last hours of the Budget debate, to the Budget itself, to the proposals of the hon. the Minister of Finance and to some of the problems those proposals are going to create, both for the Government and for South Africa, but before doing that I should like to respond to one or two speeches which have preceded mine. The one was made by the hon. member for Carletonville, who has just sat down. He made it clear that although our political opinions were irreconcilable, we could nevertheless disagree in a civilized manner. I want to tell him that I am in the position this morning that I do want to disagree with him in a civilized manner. I agree with him that it is impossible to try to defend filth, immorality, pornography and even indecency in the name of freedom. With that we agree. I recollect that I appealed a year ago to the leaders and to those who were responsible for our large universities in South Africa to see to it that those under their care were not seduced and used by other people for purposes they did not understand. I stand by that. But I feel that we should not be in too great a hurry to judge young people if they sometimes make use of those freedoms granted to them at the universities in an irresponsible manner. In the course of years I have found that even those people have become some of the most responsible people in the community. The hon. member availed himself of this opportunity to attack the principal of the University of the Witwatersrand, and I wonder whether this is the place to make such an attack. I wonder whether the Government itself does not speak through its representatives on the university council when they think fit.

Now I also want to address a few words to the hon. the Minister of Agriculture. My trouble with him is that he agrees with the Opposition to such an extent, particularly when it comes to agricultural affairs, that I do not know why he is not sitting on this side of the House. I do not know why he is so afraid of a long-term planning council for agriculture. Why should he be afraid? Does he really think they would give him the sort of advice he spoke of today? Who is he going to appoint if he expects something of that kind? No, Sir, it is quite clear that South Africa needs a planning council for agriculture which could advise him on long-term planning. I do not think we shall find a solution to our problems in South Africa before the hon. the Minister recognizes this and co-operates to institute such a council.

†I want to come back to the Budget and the proposals of the hon. the Minister and the effect they are going to have and the problems they are going to create for South Africa. I think if one evaluates the Budget proposals of the hon. gentleman, one cannot help but come to the conclusion that what he has done is to take a calculated gamble. He is taking a calculated gamble to try and achieve economic growth which I know he expected and hoped for after two devaluations, but which did not ensue despite his best hopes and his best intentions. The background against which he is introducing his Budget is rather a dismal one. Real economic growth for 1970-’71 has been of the order of 4% per annum, the lowest since Sharpeville. In 1972 even that 4% was not achieved and the figure was probably nearer 3%. The inflationary factor over those three years must have been of the order of 20%. What happened? As a result entrepreneurs became nervous, unemployment began to appear and industrial capacity was not fully employed. I know that there was a change towards the end of 1972, when industrial activity seemed to improve. It came especially because of the growth in income of farming and mining due to the demand for food overseas and the increase in the price of gold. But there was marked consumer resistance at that time, and that consumer resistance was against the rising prices which resulted in a decrease in consumption. In spite of that the cost of production rose, particularly that of mining and agriculture and in secondary industry. In other words, cost inflation upset the hopes of both the economists and the Government itself. Now the hon. the Minister has set out to encourage growth, to stimulate growth, and I believe he is doing it in the full knowledge that what he is going to do is going to be inflationary. I believe he is doing it in that full knowledge. On Loan and Revenue Accounts alone he is budgeting for a deficit of R407 million. He is hoping to wipe that out by drawing on the accumulated Stabilization Account and appropriating R264 million from the current surplus. What have been his chief stimulants to economic recovery and from what concessions is it expected that he will get his best results? When you look at the list I am afraid you cannot help coming to the conclusion that they are not very impressive, because what is he going to do? There is a reduction in transfer duty, a 5% reduction in sales tax on selected household goods, there is a cut in the personal income tax surcharge from 20% to 10%, there are export concessions including specially reduced rail tariffs and State assistance, there is an increase in investment allowances on plant and machinery, and there is assistance to farming via the Land Bank for which the Minister is so grateful although he has not yet made up his mind at what price he is going to fix the price of mealies for the year. Then there are also concessions to the mining industry. In other words, what he has done is that he has introduced a mildly reflationary Budget. One hopes that these measures will succeed in stimulating growth.

Mildly “reflationary” or “inflationary”?

Inflationary. But one must be deeply concerned at the prospect of the steeply rising living costs which are going to hit hard, and are going to hit hard at the ordinary man in the street, all those who have fixed incomes, and particularly our lowest paid workers, our Black workers, with all the explosive potential that it holds for South Africa. Already we hear of ominous acceleration in the rise of farm production costs which is going to lead to increases in the price of foodstuffs, which again hold serious political and social consequences for the nation, and already anxious inquiries are being made as to where the money is going to come from to pay for the increased wages being granted not only by the Government, but also by industry, to non-Whites, in many cases in very deserving circumstances, being granted very often to non-Whites when increase in productivity is going to be slow because of lack of training and where increases in wages have all too often resulted in the cutting back of the non-White labour complement of the industries concerned.

When you look at the situation you cannot help being impressed by the wisdom of the Prime Minister’s Economic Advisory Council in advising a year ago the three objectives for the hon. the Minister’s Budget. It advised that what should be striven for is an improvement in the balance of payments, an acceleration in the rate of economic growth and the curbing of inflation. Then followed the significant words. Of course, at that stage they were aware that it would be difficult to achieve these objectives “simultaneously” and that they were “mutually contradictory”. Of course they are not necessarily mutually contradictory, but where they are applied by the wrong people and in the wrong environment they will be mutually contradictory. Even though the hon. the Minister seems to believe that he can apply them without that being so, I am afraid that the council’s fears are going to be vindicated. It is going to be not only difficult but it is going to be impossible for this Government to achieve all three simultaneously. I think they are to be proved to be mutually contradictory. When you listen to the speeches which have been made, not only by the hon. the Minister but also by other hon. members on that side of the House since Monday, you are overwhelmed by the plethora of unsubstantiated generalities which have been used to try to justify the situation at the present time. We heard from the hon. the Minister—

Then came the very cursory examination of the inhibiting factors. I could have given him a list and I could have headed my list with the loss of immigrants over years and years in the past under this Government. I would have included failure to train our labour force despite demands from this side of the House for years and years on end. I would have listed the Physical Planning Act and its inhibiting effect on growth in our most productive areas. I would have listed the diversion of resources of capital and labour and material to the border areas. I would have listed the stop-go policies directed by the total absence of consistent aims for economic growth. How can it be different with this hon. gentleman? Was he not the man who told us that he was prepared to bend the economy to suit his ideological ends? These factors alone are going to make growth without severe inflation very difficult of attainment indeed. There was something else the Minister said. He said—

What are these unavoidable cost factors and who is responsible for them? The first of these unavoidable cost factors I would list is the high cost of labour which is the inevitable result of the Government’s restrictive labour policy, lacking in foresight and planning over the years. I would list other high costs of production such as the great wallop of extra costs on petrol in the form of taxes and the South African Railways’s profit on pipelines and the transport of petrol. I would list the high rail rates that run through the production cost line like a swelling pipe and I would list the exorbitant Post Office charges. A year or two ago I spoke in the debate on the Budget and I spoke of the experience in Australia where these very factors were so caught up in the cost-of-production machine that the Budget had the opposite effect from what the Government of the day had expected.

Then, Sir, there are the high costs now of devaluation and the effect that they are having on our imports. These costs are unavoidable under the policies of this Government, and they are going to make the attainment of growth while curbing inflation impossible. Then one can add the sales tax, apparently another unavoidable cost factor which increases the cost appreciably more at the consumer’s end than at the manufacturer’s end.

Then the hon. the Minister made a third statement:

As far as possible.

Yes, Sir, “as far as possible”. I think my first comment would be that in the places where price control is most needed, namely in the Black townships in our urban areas, it tends to be least effectively applied. I should like to say secondly that it is repeatedly nullified by appeals from producers of controlled commodities to raise the controlled price. What is happening? The Minister of Agriculture has to accede. Milk is up, bread is up, butter is up, meat is up, and now we see that inevitably the price of maize is going to rise as well. Only last week Dr. Diederichs said that there was good reason to expect that the rate of inflation would before long decline. Will it, Sir? What is the Minister of Agriculture going to do about the price of maize? I think the hon. the Minister of Finance must have been joking when he said that the rate of inflation was likely to decline. I see the hon. the Minister of Agriculture behind him, smiling happily to himself because he is about to raise the price of one of the staple food products of one of the greatest portions of the population of South Africa. I know he cannot avoid it under this Government. Of course he cannot, because he is paying for wrong policies over the years. That is the trouble.

Then we had another gem from the Minister of Finance: “The public can assist by buying judiciously.” Really, Sir, does the hon. gentleman think that the housewives today are not universally price conscious and price wise? I fear there is very little they can do to make their money go as far as it did, because of the unavoidability of inflation under the policies of the present Government. The public is hardhit because the cost of living is eroding their standard of living. I believe that the ordinary man in the street is disappointed with this Budget and with what it has done for him.

There was a rather sad comment on the results of the Umhlatuzana by-election. It came from the leader of the Nationalist Party in Natal, the hon. Senator Horwood. One is accustomed to the Nationalist Party making excuses, but this hon. gentleman has a reputation as an economist. What did he say? “The United Party fought on bread-and-butter matters and that is very hard to counter.” [Interjections.] Yes, Sir, under this Government and with this Budget it is very hard to counter indeed. Then we had the hon. member for Paarl saying that the Minister was not St. Nicholas. “Hy is nie Vader Krismis nie,” he said. Well, that is quite true. He cannot create gifts out of nothing.

Not even old Nick!

It is quite true; he cannot create gifts out of nothing as St. Nicholas could. But he did have a choice in this Budget. He had a choice, to stimulate investment growth, either of putting more into the consumers pocket or of putting more, in a more direct fashion, into the businessman’s pocket. I believe he should and could have put more into the consumer’s pocket. He would thereby have stimulated economic growth as well.

And inflation.

Sir, the hon. gentleman is faced with inflation anyway. Nothing he is doing is stopping inflation. Sir, where are we? Is it necessary that the Blacks should continue to pay income tax at the level that they do? Should the level at which they pay tax not be raised? Why is it that the level at which they pay is so much lower than for other people? Sir, he could have done a lot more about reducing transfer fees. He could have done a lot more about reducing deposits for the building of houses. He could have done a lot more about investigating ways and means of increasing subsidies to the local authorities so that the burden of assessment rates in the big cities is not as bad as it is. I think he could have done a lot more about sales tax. I think he could have introduced a national contributory pension scheme. Sir, he made some very welcome remarks when he spoke of the improvements in pensions payable to State employees and said—

Surely, Sir, that carefree and independent old age should not be reserved only for State employees and for the employees of those companies wealthy enough to afford good pension schemes. Why, Sir, are we still being deprived of a national contributory pension scheme, and why are our people faced with a lack of independence and a penurious old age on the old-age pensions being paid by this Government at the present time? What inducement is there in this Budget for anybody to save, under the present inflationary conditions in South Africa? I know that people are being encouraged to save to buy a house, but by the time they have done the saving, probably the deposit will have gone up very much higher. Sir, I am not unaware of the problems facing the hon. the Minister. He has got to plan for growth and he has to ward off inflation, but he has got to do it after 25 years of the implementation of the policies of this Government; that is what is hanging around his neck. I think the hon. member for Maitland described brilliantly the losing battle that the Government is fighting to retain its ideology in the face of the economic realities of South Africa today. Sir, at the gun-point of a shockingly low growth performance of about 3% over the past year and an inflation rate of possibly 8% for the present year, Government ideology has been breached and a white flag, recognizing interdependence between Black and White, has appeared over the ramparts of the castle of separate development. And what is the white flag, Sir? Blacks are to be trained in urban areas to do skilled and semi-skilled work. You see, Sir, the Government is awakening from its self-imposed hypnosis that South Africa can have both separation and growth. Sir, a negative per capita growth rate is something that no Government can risk for long, and with the present inflation, the present low growth rate and our vigorous population growth, the Government is faced with real difficulty. You will remember, Sir, that the Government was going to re-draw the political map of South Africa. Industries were going to mushroom in the border areas; established cities were going to divest themselves of their Black industrial workers. You will remember, Sir, that the two hon. Ministers here spoke about computers and about automation and labour-saving devices, which were going to take the place of that labour. The industries were going to chum out jobs at competitive prices and find the money to develop industries in the border areas and to develop the Black homelands as well. Well, as you know, Sir, that just has not happened. Industrialists are not being drawn into those border areas in anything like the numbers or to the extent that this Government hoped for. People feel more and more uncertain and unhappy because the final arbiter in how they are treated is not the question of the effect on the economy, not economic considerations, but the ideological considerations of this Government. With that as a guide-line the training of Black labour in the areas where it is most needed and most effective has been sadly neglected. Now, what have we got? What has the result been? The result has been a shortage of labour, the key factor in the pipeline of inflation, low productivity and inefficiency, bitter frustration on the part of the Blacks over the wages they have been allowed to earn and the way they have been forced to live, which frustration has exploded now in strike action on an unprecedented scale.

They are asking for better conditions. Sir, the hon. the Minister of Finance has finally accepted defeat, apparently, in this battle to pit the race policies of his Government against economic reality. He knows that the favourable balance of payments he has got, amounting to millions of rands, the millions he is spending to encourage exporters, to stimulate investment, to improve output and productivity, are all going to go up in inflationary smoke unless he can get the padlock off the door locking out better trained labour, and unless he can do it quickly. Now he has made a tentative move in the right direction. Sir, what about the 25 years that have been wasted? And how far is he going to be allowed to go? Once before the hon. gentleman made a statement in a Budget speech and hardly had he made it than we had reaction from the hon. the Minister of Labour and the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development. What is going to happen on this occasion? We have already had the Minister of Labour, it would seem, in conflict with the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs. The Minister of Posts and Telegraphs is training Black workers in White areas for skilled work in his Post Office and it does not look as if they are going to be used only in Black areas. I wonder how that dispute is going to be resolved. I wonder whether the Minister of Finance is going to win this time. Last time he lost. But I think the time has come for us to have some clear statement from someone, with undisputed authority to speak, on what the Government is going to do, how far it is going to go and how soon it is going to get on with the job of getting labour trained for purposes which are so essential for the country. In fact, we need a different approach. A different approach will not be new to this side of the House. We have been pleading for it for years. But it will be very different for that side of the House. I want to say to the hon. the Minister that I see little joy for the wage earner in 1973. The unavoidable cost factors which the hon. the Minister has spoken about as being inevitable under the administration of his Government, are going to give him a hard time. I see little joy for investors because they still have no certainty of exactly what is meant by that fateful sentence, that fateful sentence in the Budget speech of the hon. the Minister. I believe the Government is aware of the problems facing us. In fact, I believe it is more aware of them than it has ever been before. I think it has accepted now that rising costs are here to stay and that trying to contain inflation by limiting consumption has failed utterly. It is quite clear that it is prepared to accept further inflation for the sake of economic growth in the hope that the result will be a net increase in the per capita income of the people. But it is a gamble, and if it fails we are going to see inflation such as we have never seen before in the history of South Africa. But if it succeeds, and I hope it will, it is going to create new problems for this Government because inflation in South Africa is not just an economic problem; it is a political problem of very serious dimensions.

Now, Sir, what does all this mean? I believe that, first of all, the inevitable result of the inflation which will follow on this Budget is that it will hit the people with fixed incomes excessively hard and that speedy relief for them will have to be in the pipeline. Then there is a second factor, a second set of problems. These are the problems with which the workers, particularly the low-paid Black workers, will be faced, because their problems are going to make them more restive and they are going to force us all to rethink our attitudes to their presence in our midst. I do not believe that South Africa is ever going to be able to return to the mentality which prevailed before the Durban strikes and those that followed. In this regard the Government is badly placed to make adjustments, either in the socio-economic sphere or in the political sphere, and both are going to have to be made, both in the socio-economic sphere and in the political sphere. The trouble with the Government is that it still regards the Black workers in our midst as temporary sojourners. That is an approach which made men like Chief Mathala, Chief Minister of Lebowa in the Northern Transvaal, describe this as the joke of the century. This is a report on what he said when he spoke on the 15th November last year—

It is quite clear that a new approach is necessary. We on this side of the House have outlined what our approach is to the urban Bantu. We have outlined it under the new circumstances which are developing, circumstances which will have to take account of the fact that the Black worker who is to be trained to become a skilled or semi-skilled worker in industry is going to be with us to a much greater degree of permanency than in the past. It is not going to be so easy to move him back to the Reserves and do without him from time to time. That is why we plan a vastly changed approach to this section of the community as was outlined by the hon. member for Transkei in the speech which he made. We recognize, above all, the vital importance that these people should have a stake in the maintenance of law and order in their own areas, their own urban townships. We have indicated how we believe that stake could be built up and what we believe ought to be done. We have said very clearly that we wanted to make it possible for them to acquire freehold title to their homes in the urban townships. We wanted them to enjoy undisturbed family life. We wanted to foster actively the emergence of a responsible stable class of Bantu town-dweller. In practical effect we committed ourselves to various other matters with which the hon. member dealt.

I do not believe that you can have a satisfied, stable labour force unless regard is had to those very issues. I want to ask the hon. members on the other side of the House whether they are now prepared to abolish job reservation and to undertake to protect workers by ensuring that no changes will be effected in the labour pattern without consultation with and the cooperation of the trade unions concerned, and by applying the principle of the rate for the job to avoid unfair competition, something which is not happening today. There is completely unfair competition between the wage rates in border industries and other areas in South Africa.

I want to ask them secondly whether they are prepared to arrange for training, control and the necessary safeguards for the efficient utilization of skilled and unskilled labourers, because if they are not prepared to get on with the job of training labour, and training it rapidly, then they are never going to get the growth which is vital to South Africa and they are going to be faced with unprecedented inflation in the country.

There is a third problem with which they are faced and this is the question of employer/employee labour relations. I want to ask them if they are prepared to arrange for the collective representation of Bantu labour in a manner to be determined after consultation with existing trade unions and organized management. Because, if they do not, they are going to be faced with unhappiness, unsettlement, restivenesss and more and more strikes throughout South Africa. It is no answer to me to say that those strikes are illegal. Everybody knows that they are illegal, but they are taking place, and the result has been higher wages in many areas.

I take it a little further. Are they prepared to make elementary education available to all Bantu children? Are they prepared to provide secondary and technical education facilities for the urban Bantu in the White areas? These are all points that have to be dealt with. Are they prepared to bring about changes in movement control which will allow the wife of a Bantu worker to join him, provided he is in permanent employment and in a position to support the family, and accommodation is available? In many cases that is refused today. Why? Are they prepared to restore the spirit of section 10 of the Bantu Urban Areas Act of 1945, which accepts that if a Bantu enters a prescribed area on certain terms he has rights of permanent residence as in the past? If they do not, they are going to be faced with more uncertainty, more difficulties and more troubles building up for them, and they are not going to develop that stake in the maintenance of law and order.

Then there is something else they have to look at. They are going to have to look at the sort of amenities they make available for these people, not only as regards the Bantu in the urban townships, but also the urban Bantu employed in the White areas and living with their employers or on their premises. We on this side of the House have been committed not only to provide separate amenities for each race; we have been committed also to make arrangements so that individuals of different races can enjoy certain amenities together. I have said to the hon. the Prime Minister before that it is a disgrace that there is not a restaurant in certain towns where a civilized White man and a civilized Black man can sit down to discuss things around a table. I have indicated that as far as we are concerned, we believe that where there are public amenities, those amenities should not only be separate for the different races, but that there should be an area of choice, amenities available to both to be enjoyed by those who wish to enjoy them. I believe this may be one of the ways in which we can create very much better race relations. But one thing is quite certain, and that is that the present state of affairs introduced by this Government cannot be allowed to continue.

There are certain essentials, which I have outlined. But, Sir, unless change comes and comes very quickly, the hon. the Minister’s Budget is going to be even a bigger failure than some of us anticipated. I have said that the Government is badly placed in the socio-economic field. But the result of more permanent Black workers living in White areas, more highly trained workers, people with permanent employment and higher living standards, is going to create political problems for the Government as well, political problems in respect of which they are not very well situated at the present time. What is going to happen? After everything possible and impossible has been done to implement Government policy, they are going to find themselves in the end with a residual position, which will have to be solved, or we will not have continued peace and prosperity in South Africa. They are going to be faced with Whites in the White areas in the four provinces governed by this Parliament through provincial councils with ever decreasing powers. They will probably have eight or nine Bantu homeland areas. I wonder how many of them are going to accept independence. A number of them are already indicating that they are not going to. The hon. the Prime Minister has indicated that the present position will continue. For how long? Does he think he will continue to satisfy them in this way? Already he is being told that, on the terms the Government is offering, certain homelands will not accept independence. What will his position be as the years go by and he is stuck with those people? What is he, in any case, going to do about the Coloureds who, with very limited political rights, are developing fast in the socio-economic field an playing an ever bigger role in the economic life of South Africa? What is he going to do about the Indian community? He is faced with troubles there of exactly the same kind. How does the Government propose to deal with this situation which is going to be accentuated by this very industrial development which the hon. the Minister is hoping to promote with his Budget?

What is he going to do about the Bantu permanently settled in the urban areas? We have our answers. We have given our answer on many occasions. We protect the position of the more advanced groups by making this Parliament the regulator. We give the various groups legislative assemblies so that they can, in a large measure, control their own affairs. We create a federal body to decide, to advise and to help in matters of common interest. What has the hon. the Prime Minister to offer?

Have you now decided how long this Parliament will remain?

The hon. the Prime Minister wants to know how long this Parliament will remain. He knows as well as I do that Parliament cannot bind its successors. Does he really want to lay down that it should be five years or ten years or 15 years or 100 years?

I am asking you.

The hon. gentleman is asking me the most ridiculous question. Because he knows this Parliament cannot bind its successors. He will not get away with these stupid questions. How long is it going to be before the Bantustans ask for independence?

That is a decision they have to take.

They have to decide? How long this Parliament is going to remain is also something they will have to decide in the future, for we shall not be here. They, this Parliament. They will be the ones to decide because we who are here today shall no longer be there. [Interjections.] Yes, the White members who will be here then. I speak of “them” because you will not be here; neither shall I. Other members will be here.

†Sir, these are the problems which the hon. the Prime Minister is facing. We are in this position that our principles cover all these things. The hon. the Prime Minister has no answer to it. I believe that this Budget and the consequences which may flow from it in the socio-economic sphere and in the political sphere may well turn out to be a watershed in the political and economic history of South Africa. This is the first time the ramparts of the Government’s policy have been reached in the economic field and the political consequences will still be seen. More and more the people are realizing that this Government has no answers. If Umhlatuzana means anything at all, it means that the people of South Africa are beginning to realize that this Government has no answer for the problems which have been created by it.

Mr. Speaker … [Interjections.] Mr. Speaker, if hon. members could have known what I am going to say now they would have realized that they are now displaying very poor taste.

It will be nonsense, in any case.

Yes, wait a moment. The hon. member for Maitland is one of my intimate friends. He took part in this debate, but is not in his seat at the moment. I, as Whip, have stood up to say that we on this side of the House know that he is a clever member, that he is an excellent parliamentarian, much better than the one who has just interrupted me. Even though we disagree with one another, we are nevertheless a Christian people with Christian orientated parties, and I therefore say on behalf of this side of the House, as I have also said to the Chief Whip on that side of the House, that we are glad to hear that there has been some improvement in the hon. member for Maitland’s condition and we hope that in the next debate he will be back in the House again. Though I was greeted with laughter when I stood up, I want to say at once that I know how to conduct myself in showing respect for the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. I have an exceptional amount of respect for him. I shall come back to him in a moment. I know that the hon. the Minister of Finance will deal with the financial and other matters which he raised. I briefly want to say that as far as I am concerned this debate is a wonderful debate. It was not my intention to take part in it, but I am now doing so, for a certain reason, in fact. There were a few highlights in this debate. One of the fine moments, which struck me, was the excellent contribution the hon. member for Green Point made. Why do I say that he made a fine contribution? Is today, 6th April, not the day on which Van Riebeeck came to this country 321 years ago? After 321 years, we have here a Christian nation with a Christian make-up, and do we not owe a great deal of thanks to the Scottish ministers? When I see how the hon. member for Green Point fought for State security and for the maintenance of this Christian state I see in him a true descendant of the Andrew Murrays to whom I want to pay tribute today. That is why I am glad the hon. member acted in that way.

*I want to mention a few other moments. It is a very good thing that the hon. member for North Rand is walking out. His conduct towards me was worse than mine towards the hon. the Leader of the Opposition or any others. There was also another fine moment I experienced in the 30 years I have been in this House. It is such a fine thing that both sides of the House are so deeply concerned about the youth of South Africa, whether they be English or Afrikaans speaking students. As the lawmakers of this country, both sides of the House have displayed affection and love for their children. Those children are the future of our people, not so? I also witnessed a fine moment when an English-speaking person on this side of the House, who was the principal of a university, spoke of the cancer gnawing at the inner strength of our youth. There was absolute silence on both sides of the House when he spoke. This was a fine thing, as far as I am concerned, because it was the first time in the 30 years I have been in this House that an English speaking Member of Parliament on this side of the House, delivered by English speaking South Africans, was not discredited while making a speech. I found it to be a wonderful moment. The speeches of most English speaking members, who spoke previously, were so differently received. I have found it to be one of the fine moments in this Budget debate that the Opposition conducted themselves in that fashion even though differences do exist.

Another fine highlight was this: Since today is 6th April, the day on which this Christian State came into being …

Is this an important day as far as you are concerned, Pottie?

Yes, it is important. I shall tell the hon. member why it is such an important day. The hon. member also spoke of this being a Christian State, not so? Did the hon. member not say in Oudtshoorn that he himself believes that God wants the White man to have a measure of rule over White South Africa? Supposing the hon. member did not want to say it, he must nevertheless acknowledge that in our Constitution it stated that the Almighy led us to this Fatherland. Was it not the Heavenly Architect, the Master of the fates of nations, who led us to this country? And is it not an important day for us? Is it not important to the hon. member? Is this not a Christian White nation?

[Inaudible.]

If the hon. member would just keep quiet, he would get to know something in a moment. The trouble is that you do not even know that you do not know that you know nothing. That is why you are interrupting me. This is a fine day as far as I am concerned; it was on this day, in 1652, that the Hollanders came here, and in 1688 the French Huguenots came, not so? Later the British settlers came, and still later the German immigrants.

That Heavenly Architect, in his inexhaustible creative power, established a diversity of nations, and we as a people, as we sit on both sides of the House, and forming a part of the nation, are a God-willed people with a calling to fulfil. We are a Christian nation and I found it a fine gesture that both sides of the House …

Why did you not vote against this Bill?

I want to tell the hon. member, who is now trying to distract my attention, that his party conducted itself well. I can almost say at the moment I love the hon. member for Yeoville, who is sitting and staring at me like that … [Interjections.] The Commandment states, of course, that I should love my neighbour, even though he is frequently unlovable. The hon. member is a scintillating politician and we like him. But do hon. member know when I like him most? It was when he loyally stood by the Schlebusch Commission, as did Mr. Murray, the hon. member for Green Point. The hon. member for Yeoville did not deserve to be pelted with tomatoes. They did not dirty the hon. member because he displayed a fine, clean and generous attitude in the interests of South Africa. I do not want to dwell on this for long, but as far as State security is concerned, we must be fair on this day. Are we not a Christian state? What is the elementary function of any well-ordered Government in any civilized state? I think it is to maintain law and order, not so? What is the minimum requirement the individual can set the State. It is that that State will at least guarantee his life, his freedom and his possessions. And the State, which we represent here as the lawmakers of the country, can also demand something of individuals and students. If we must guarantee their freedom and their lives, and give them education, we may surely also demand that they co-operate to ensure the security and the freedom of a Christian democratic State. That is the delicate balance that existed and the background against which this whole discussion took place. The freedom of the individual and the security of the State are inseparably bound together. What happens to the freedom of the State and this Christian country if the State’s freedom is overthrown? That is why I have found it a highlight that both sides of the House have conducted themselves in this fashion. I do not want to elaborate on this any further.

The hon. member for Parktown is an authority on economic matters …

He wants to know whether there are highlights in the Budget.

If you got a curly tail you would look just like a baboon. [Interjections.]

Order!

Mr. Speaker, I shall withdraw those words, but it is not fair of that hon. member to interrupt me in that way while I am making a serious speech. We respect the hon. member for Parktown not only in the House; but also in his everyday dealings he is one of the most respected members because he can speak with authority on economic matters. The other day he used the concept which made an impression on the House. He said he expected the Minister of Finance and the Government of the country, if they were worth their salt, to accept those things from the Opposition side which are correct. He means that an exchange of ideas should take place here and that lucidity and clarity should result. In the exchange of ideas in a democratic system, the views of the Opposition must be accepted when they are correct. The hon. member does not only speak with authority about the economy, but it seems to me that as far as ethical concepts are concerned, he is also completely correct. If one is right, it is good, but it is bad when one is wrong. Let us today subject this concept to a test. It is exactly a quarter of a century since this United Party Opposition, which I respect, ruled South Africa for the last time. If they do not act correctly and relinquish their wrong and unacceptable relations politics, they will never again rule South Africa. That party is a party with a great deal of experience. For 30 years I knew that party and its great leader, Field Marshal Smuts. I also know the present leader, Sir Div, who is now staring at me like that. It is a party with fine leaders. I am not speaking of Harry Schwarz now, because he is truly no leader. That United Party has experienced a great deal, and it was once a ruling party with 107 members. It was a party that stood at the peak of popularity during the war years. I did not begrudge them that. If such a party has a wrong policy, and does not do the ethically correct thing mentioned by the hon. member for Parktown, the Opposition benches wait for such a party. Since this Opposition party, the once strong party, is still, after 25 years, clinging convulsively to a wrong relations policy, they have only the grave waiting for them. It is only logical that a party that must choose between right and wrong and adopts a middle course, half wrong and half right, will never reach its destination. It cannot reach a goal. That hon. member for Hillbrow, who is now sitting there in his bench like someone sitting under a juniper tree and meditating, is deeply concerned about the goal.

I do not want to attack the Leader of the Opposition. But I want to tell him that I have frequently listened to him, and listened to him with the utmost attention. I have been doing so for years. As far as this comprehensive and complex Colour question is concerned, the Leader of the Opposition has always said, “No, not integration, and not apartheid either.” There is another road, the middle road or mean. Is it not strange that after 25 years this Opposition has not yet learned the lesson and that it truly wants to try to bring about a change of government in South Africa with a “middle-of-the-road policy”. To follow, at this stage in South Africa’s history, the dangerous middle course between these two clashing, contradictory and irreconcilable policies in South Africa, is to be moving down the road to the grave. One cannot reach such a goal. I shall tell you why. Hon. members will say that I have already heard a great deal about dual loyalty. The word “loyalty” is a fine word as far as I am concerned. Hon. members say they were loyal during the war years. Yes, that is correct. I congratulate you on your loyalty and your faithfulness. But there is something I cannot understand. How can I congratulate a person when he is loyal to the death to a wrong policy, yes a policy that will lead to the grave? That is the difficulty. That is the lesson these people do not want to learn.

Perhaps you are wrong, Pottie !

I now come to the hon. member for Hillbrow. When the hon. member for Hillbrow came here as a member of the House of Assembly, I was one of his greatest admirers. His maiden speech was a scintillating speech. In the lobbies we congratulated him. But, Sir, I like Parliament and I do not want a person’s development to deviate. I want him to become a wonderful parliamentarian. Every time the hon. member spoke I sat and watched him. In that first speech of his he showed what a scientist he is, and what do we find now? He speaks of the relations question; he speaks of a world that is changing. He wants us to solve this relations question. But if one wants to do so one must approach the question scientifically. He speaks of the transplanting of a Black heart into the body of a White man by medical science. Sir, there are many sciences. Sociology is also a science, and if one has a relations policy it must stand the test of science. I am asking that hon. member: Show me a policy that has only a basis and a course, without an eventual goal. Why is he fighting against that goal? Why do hon. members on that side not think out their policy? Why do they not tell South Africa: “That is the basis of our policy; that is its course and that is our eventual object”? Sir, do you know what the trouble is? That party has always advocated a certain direction in their policy; they have always been loyal to that, a wrong direction. The only thing they change is their so-called policy. Sir, the hon. member for Yeoville is now sitting and thinking seriously, and I know he is not thinking of Harry Schwarz; he is now listening to me. Here I have the hon. member’s Hansard.

Pottie, you do not need a curly tail.

Sir, that is correct. That hon. member is a wonderful, scintillating member. I believe in the theory of evolution, according to which a monkey develops into a person, but now I see a man who is changing back into a monkey. Since the hon. member for Yeoville and the hon. member for Mooi River are wanting to have a joke with me, I want to tell them this: A joke is fine, a scintillating sense of humour is fine, but a joker in the wrong sense is like a skunk in the right sense. Mr. Speaker, I am sorry I have used that expression, but the hon. member did act somewhat malodorously towards me. I could not help thinking of a little animal endowed with that wonderful, perfect characteristic which is not exactly odorous. Sir, I want to come back to the subject. I shall not dwell on that hon. member for long, because I find he is becoming very monotonous and boring because he is bothering me. The hon. member shouted out here: “Verandering (change)!” Sir, I have seen changes in 30 years. I saw how a powerful United Party changed overnight, and that party has now been sitting in the Opposition benches for 25 years, but the hon. member was not referring to that change. The hon. member for Hillbrow speaks of “change”, of changes. We know, surely, that we are living in a changing world. The world is round; there is a circle of changes, but they must be changes for the good. It is no use saying that there are changes, and that changes must come, if they do not want to change the direction advocated in their policy. They only change their policy, but it remains the same thing; it is still the same baby, there is only a different shawl. That is the trouble. [Laughter.] Yes, I am glad to see that the hon. member is laughing. “A smile worth while is the smile you smile when you don’t want to smile.” That is what is wrong with the hon. member. Sir, we on this side have taken change into account. We have seen changes coming. But this is not only happening here with us; there are changes throughout the world, and South Africa is part of that world. The hon. member for Hillbrow, I myself and everyone are part of a changing world. This changing world will develop. It is a developing world. I do not believe in a theory of degeneration according to which everything only regresses. Although the United Party has regressed a great deal, at least they are beginning to grow again now. Sir, I believe in development. The world is developing. I do not blame anyone for the fact that there are international organizations. After the Second World War I still remember General Smuts once pointing here in the House to the changes that were coming in a changing world. He was deeply upset. After the last World War nationalism came to the fore. There was colonialism, and discrimination was regarded as something evil. I do not even want to mention all those trends. We saw those changes. Changes are challenges. We did not evade the challenge. We came along with a dynamic policy of development along individual lines as an answer to the challenge of change. Sir, our policy is a scientific policy. It is embodied in the 1948 manifesto. Now hon. members are saying we have changed it.

It was “baasskap”.

Was it “baasskap”? There is nothing wrong with the White man being master in his White area and the Black man being master in his area. What is wrong with that? The hon. member does not know what he is talking about. Give me a chance and let us test this. You speak of “baasskap”. After hundreds of years we have in this country a White Government, “White rule”, and do you know what the tragedy is? The tragedy is that the world outside is saying that this “White rule”, which is in the interests of Whites and non-Whites, is “White paramountcy” and “White supremacy”. They say it is “baasskap” to keep the Black man in perpetual political servitude. That is a false interpretation. You are confused in your thinking. You are not formulating your political concepts with complete clarity. Listen to me, and if you do not have the intelligence to listen, rather keep quiet, then you will soon know something. Give me a chance to explain this to you.

Say what the policy was in 1948.

In 1948 it was our policy, and after 25 years of National Government under Dr. Malan, Mr. Strijdom, Dr. Verwoerd and the present Prime Minister, the fundamental basis of the policy of separate development is still intact. After all, we do not change our policy every other day. That is why we are sitting here. But let me first come back to “baasskap”. Do you know what the difficulty is? This “White rule”—this was said by General Smuts and others. They did not do what the liberalists and the progressives like the hon. member for Houghton are now doing. I also knew a liberalist in this House, a scintillating politician and a good Afrikaner. I am now going to read what he said. I want you to listen, and then to speak again about “baasskap”. I hope the hon. member will now keep quiet and just open his mouth when he yawns. It is such a pity that the hon. member for Bezuidenhout is absent. I really have my eye on him. I want to quote this because it also has a bearing on him. Listen, the person speaking here is one who was highly respected in this House, a man with a brilliant mind. He said—

Sir, that was a liberalist one had respect for—“Give every man a fair deal”! Does the hon. member for Yeoville agree with me that Mr. Jan Hendrik Hofmeyr was a liberalist? I also attacked him on his political inclinations, but he was honest and sincere, one of the best Parliamentarians ever in this House. But what does the hon. member for Bezuidenhout say? What a contrast! The small band of liberalists we have today are a different kind of liberalist. They are so pink, so ultra-liberalistic. It is terrible the way they throw tomatoes, and the hon. member knows I am now speaking the truth. Sir, I want to come back and state very clearly that the National Party’s policy is a scientific one. The basis of our partys’ policy is embodied in the 1948 manifesto, and from its basis it has taken its course, resulting in the determination and implementation of that policy up to its eventual consequences. The hon. member spoke of change. What change must come about? That is what the world wants. Even if it takes 50 or 100 years—the hon. the Leader of the Opposition said it would perhaps be long after our death—but the world will develop and eventually exist as an interaction of independent, self-determining Black states, Whites states and Yellow states. We saw that change coming, that change which is taking place in the world. We saw that international organizations were asking for that international maturity. The eventual goal and the all-embracing objects of the policy of separate development are to lead the Bantu and everyone along that course of development and to so realize their potentialities that we shall lead them to spiritual emancipation. Yes, we also want to make them economically stronger. That course of development must lead to political independence and international maturity. That is morality. That is the answer to the changes taking place in the world.

How will this be applied to the Coloureds?

Look, let me now tell you this. I am dealing with this political recipe particularly as far as the Bantu are concerned. That is quite correct. The Opposition is already taking over this recipe in bits and pieces. Just as certainly will this Government, because we think deeply and think again, and because we carry out our thinking to its logical consequence and implement our policy with humanity and Christianity, yet show the Opposition, under its Prime Minister, or whoever the case may be, the policy that will also lead the Coloureds on the road on which they will find themselves, with pride in and an awareness of their own Coloured nation.

Where will that nation live?

Where will it live? On earth. [Interjections.] I say it will live on earth. If it behaves itself in this country, which frequently has difficulties and looks to that nation like a region of wretchedness, I wish for that nation, if it one day goes forth, that it will find itself in the region of blessedness.

They say we are taking over their policy. Imagine, that is the new fashion. If the people of South Africa were to adopt the policy of the hon. member for Hillbrow, that of the hon. member for Bezuidenhout or that of the hon. member for Houghton, because she is a spiritual heir of the United Party—in the old days they were all under one political blanket and it almost looked like a political romance—and she sits there as the guardian of the logical consequences of the policy of the United Party, and hon. members may say of this what they want to …

As Albert Hertzog is of your party’s.

Oh, leave Dr. Hertzog for a while.

Why?

I shall tell you why. Leave Dr. Hertzog for a while, because he is not relevant now. The hon. members want to run away from what I now want to expose them as. They flee, as they always do. Thus they evaded their responsibility.

I want to state very clearly today that we have a scientific policy. We have our eventual and far-reaching objects. This National Party’s policy is not a policy of oppression. Do you remember how people said this is a policy of oppression? The enemies of Afrikanerdom, of the White man, of the National Party and of the United Party, said overseas that the White man is the oppressor and the destroyer of the Black man in this country. They, those enemies, and also those who have now been placed under house arrest, pose as the saviours and friends of the Black man. [Time expired.]

Business suspended at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 2.20 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, just prior to the lunch adjournment we had a speech from the hon. the Chief Whip on the Government side, which one found amusing at times. But one must immediately react by saying that the speech had very little, if anything, to do with the Budget which is now being considered by the House. My hon. leader made reference to very important matters and problems facing South Africa and none of these questions were answered in any way by the Chief Whip on the other side. He did indicate that the hon. the Minister of Finance would possibly reply to some of these points. However, one would have thought that perhaps the hon. member for Brits would have given some attention to a very important aspect concerning this Budget and that is the question of relief to the poor and to the lower income groups. When one looks at the amendment which was moved to this motion by the hon. member for Parktown, one sees that one of the reasons why we decline to pass the Second Reading of this Appropriation Bill is that inadequate relief is provided for the lower income groups and the less privileged sections of our people. It is significant that not a single member on that side of the House has made any effort to refute that vitally important leg of the amendment. It is a matter which has been left almost entirely out of the debate by members opposite, if it has not been completely ignored by them. I, this afternoon, wish to refer to some aspects of this matter concerning the lower income group and the poorer sections of our community.

When one considers the surpluses that are available to the hon. the Minister of Finance and when one studies his Second Reading speech, one can only be appalled at the fact that only a minute amount is being allocated for the relief of the poorer sections of our community. I believe it is a tragedy when a country fails to recognize the debt of gratitude that it owes its senior citizens and pioneers. The hon. the Chief Whip referred to pioneers; he referred to some of the history of South Africa, but he did not, I believe, mention the fact that today is the last occasion when the people outside will be able to enjoy, recognize and honour Van Riebeeck Day, this important day in the history of South Africa, as a public holiday. When one looks at the debt of gratitude that we owe this section of the community, one would think that it would be a duty of the Government of the day to see to it that that debt of gratitude was paid, and paid in full.

This Budget fails in many respects. But as far as bringing relief to the poorer sections of the community is concerned, I think it is tragic that the hon. the Minister of Finance has been able to allocate, as far as concessions to the social pensioners are concerned—who constitute perhaps the poorest section amongst all the pensioners of South Africa—a sum of only R11 million for this financial year. The hon. the Minister said that an increase of 10% was being given to pensioners, such as civil pensioners and, of course, social pensioners. But, Sir, we must take into account that this increase takes effect only during the last six months of this financial year. Consequently the increase, as far as White social pensioners are concerned, amounts to R24 for each pensioner for this particular year. That represents only a 5% increase during this financial year. It would appear that in terms of the proposals of the hon. the Minister, the poorest section, the section which requires relief most of all, will have to wait the longest to receive such relief.

The hon. the Minister of Transport, in the course of his Budget, announced increases for Railway pensioners. There was to be a consolidation and an increase of 10%, effective from 1st April, 1973. I commend the fact that the hon. the Minister of Transport has seen fit to provide relief for those persons from 1st April. In other words, those Railway pensioners receive immediate relief. What do we find in the case of the social pensioner? The social pensioner must wait until 1st October. Indeed, by the time he actually receives that relief, it will be towards the end of October. One might say, therefore, that he will have to wait a period of approximately seven months before he receives any of this relief that the hon. the Minister of Finance announced in his Budget speech.

When was the last increase?

The last increase was also in October, last year. Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions is in the House, because I want to refer to the position last year. Last year the pensioners were told that the increase would take effect from 1st October, for a specific reason, and that was so that adjustments could be made to the means test. This was the reason that was put forward as to why the increase could not be granted from 1st April. There have been increases in the past which came into effect from 1st April.

Only once.

Well, it is a precedent. I have not checked to see how many times this has happened, but I think we are dealing with a specific and urgent problem relating to the poorer sections of the community. Because this was done only once before, it does not mean to say that therefore the Government is not going to do it again. Last year it was said that an adjustment to the means test had caused the delay. I found that there had been no automatic adjustment in the case of those social pensioners not receiving maximum amounts. One would have thought that during that period of six months when adjustments had to be made, this would have been one of the adjustments. But when I wrote to the department and inquired about these adjustments relating to the means test, the reply was as follows—

So the reason for the delay which was advanced last year was that there was a revision of the means test. However, it appears from the correspondence I have had with the Department of Social Welfare and Pensions that such relief was not afforded automatically. So, what actual adjustments took place during that period remains a mystery. In terms of the Budget proposals now before us the Minister of Finance indicated that there would be no change in the means test. Consequently there is to be no change in the means test as far as the Whites are concerned. An overdue adjustment of the means test for Coloureds and Indians is to come about. This is long overdue, when one takes into account the adjustments that have been made in respect of White social pensioners. The Minister clearly indicated that there was to be no alteration of the means test as far as the Whites were concerned. So, Sir, it appears that this group which so urgently requires financial assistance, is to be the one that will have to wait until 1st October.

As far as the civil pensioners are concerned, we welcome the concessions that have been announced. They were actually announced before the Budget by the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions when he made a public statement announcing the consolidation of the various funds. The civil pensioners are to have their increase from 1st July, this year. Consequently we have the situation where relief is being afforded to three groups of pensioners, namely the Railway pensioners from 1st April, the civil pensioners from 1st July and the social pensioners only from 1st October, This year. I therefore appeal to the hon. the Minister of Finance to reconsider the position. Surely, with the surpluses which are available and with the transfer of large sums to the Stabilization Account, it would be possible for the Minister of Finance to allow a full R22 million concession for the financial year instead of making provision for a concession of only half that amount, R11 million, for this coming financial year.

I do appeal to the hon. the Minister of Finance to reconsider the position as far as this aspect is concerned. I do so, Sir, on behalf of the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions, because he has said from time to time that we cannot do enough for these old people. He is in the position where he has sincere sympathy for these people, but he is entirely in the hands of the Minister of Finance. That is why I am making this appeal this afternoon to the Minister of Finance to make a larger sum available to the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions so that that increase can be made effective from 1st April, this year.

Sir, we have already had a debate this year in regard to the position of pensioners and the introduction of a national contributory pension scheme. I do not at this stage wish to repeat the arguments that were raised during the course of that debate. However, I do feel that it is not out of place once again to bring to the notice of the House and of the country the severe hardships that are being experienced by these old people in South Africa at the present time. People of all racial groups find that they are unable to be economically employed any longer, and then find that the ravages of inflation and the steep rise in the cost of living have made their position almost untenable. These people are then having to rely on the support of welfare organizations and other persons who might be able to assist them in various ways. There are persons who are fortunate enough to have children who can assist them. The Government has said on many occasions that children should assist their aged parents in time of need. We agree, of course, that that is the ideal; but in the hard reality of the position, particularly with the increase in the cost of living today, these people find it virtually impossible to render sufficient assistance to those aged parents, due to the fact that their own financial position is aggravated by the present rate of inflation. So these people are facing indeed a very bleak six months. Even at the end of the six months, when they do receive the little increase that has been accorded to them, the cost of living and the erosion of their capital and whole financial position will be such that they will virtually be no better off at all.

A number of people have made provision for their old age. I believe that it is quite tragic to consider the circumstances of many of these people who paid into pension funds, are receiving small pensions and find that they are completely unable to come out on those pensions and to maintain any decent sort of standard of living. Others have made provision by saving money. They invested money. What has happened to that money? It is gradually becoming less and less in its purchasing power. Many of them have had to use that capital to a great extent, and so have entered that vicious financial circle of having to utilize and live on capital, and thus reducing the income to supplement the inadequate pension. Their capital begins to drop and they eventually reach a situation where they have virtually nothing.

I want to repeat a plea which was made during the course of the debate on a private motion dealing with pensions, a plea for the consideration of a special allowance and special assistance for those people who have incomes or assets below a certain figure. I suggested that the Government should take into account the free income allowed of R42 per month per person or R9 800 as far as assets are concerned. Persons who are in a financial position below that level should be entitled to receive some extra financial help. I hope that the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions will give this matter further consideration. His Deputy Minister has clearly stated that it is impossible for a person to live on R41 per month. Indeed, he is on record as saying that even if they had R61 per month, it would be impossible for them to live on that amount in the light of the financial position now of the country. These people can only look to the Minister of Finance for relief. I believe that the Minister of Finance has let these people down to a great extent as far as this Budget is concerned. If the people cannot expect greater alleviation when there are surpluses, what will the position be when there are large deficits? I do believe that the position is such that this requires urgent attention.

The other point is that there is to be no change in the means test. Here we have a position where there are various anomalies which I hope to have the opportunity of raising again when the Vote of the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions comes under discussion. But I would just like to say now that these anomalies exist, and it is a great pity that evidently no attempt during this financial year is to be made to eliminate any of those anomalies. As my hon. leader has said in the House this morning, one of the ways that many anomalies could be eliminated would be the introduction of a national contributory pension scheme which will bring about the complete abolition of a means test. The position of many of these people, who, as I have said, rely on charity to some extent, will place a tremendous strain on the financial resources of the registered welfare organizations. The Government and this side of the House have a common outlook on welfare services, namely that the welfare services should be shared between the community and the Government. I include the churches and the welfare organizations in such services. However, many of these organizations are facing serious financial difficulties as a result of escalating costs. Consequently it is a pity that except for one group catering for the children where increases are to be made as far as the per capita subsidy is concerned, a very welcome and indeed very necessary increase to these organizations, there appears to be no further alleviation as far as these welfare organizations are concerned in their unending battle to bring some assistance and relief to these people. In view of the fact that the relief is such that it remains inadequate as is clearly indicated in the amendment moved by the hon. member for Parktown, namely that these welfare organizations are going to find a great financial strain placed on them because of a deteriorating financial position as far as these people are concerned.

There are other aspects which I would like to discuss with the Minister of Finance, aspects which are related to the subject which I am now discussing. The attitude of the Government is that they should encourage children to give greater financial assistance to aged parents or disabled persons who are unable to care for themselves. I believe the hon. the Minister of Finance should assist Government policy in bringing about this situation and review the abatement position whereby a person can claim an abatement on the basis of a person being dependent. If you look at the present position you will find that where a person is being partly supported by the taxpayer up to the extent of R80 that that person can claim an abatement of R80. Where a person is totally dependent upon a taxpayer and amount is R200. In terms of the present value of money, surely the hon. the Minister of Finance should review these unrealistic figures that are provided for in the abatement. I do hope the hon. the Minister of Finance will give consideration to this particular aspect, because the Government has said that it is the duty of children to take a greater responsibility in supporting these people. I believe that the present amount allowed as an abatement is inadequate to meet these needs and it might have an effect on the assistance given to these people.

The other aspect is related to the position of welfare organizations and the difficulties that many of them are experiencing in remaining solvent. The hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions I am sure is fully aware of the fact that a number of these organizations are presently facing serious financial difficulties. He knows that on occasions they have to go to the department and ask for special relief and special assistance. It is important for these organizations to be able to expand to meet their obligations by having greater financial assistance by the Government. Many of them of course appeal to the public and on many occasions the public of South Africa has responded magnificently. They do come forward and assist them, but I do think that greater incentive should be granted to taxpayers and to companies who wish to make donations to welfare organizations. I therefore ask the hon. the Minister of Finance to give consideration to allowing amounts that are donated to registered welfare organizations and other charitable institutions to be a deductible amount as far as taxable income is concerned. I think this must apply to the individual taxpayer and to the companies. This would create a situation where more persons will become involved in the very necessary community participation in welfare work. If some incentive was granted to the taxpayer and to companies this might spark off that community participation which, as I say, is so vital to our welfare work in South Africa. This plea has been made in the past, but has unfortunately always been rejected. But we as an Opposition has found from time to time that it does pay us to persist with our pleas because to be persistent with these pleas we eventually may reach the ears of the Government who then find it inevitable to adopt some of these suggestions that have been made by this side of the House. This suggestion has been made by others, eminent persons concerned with welfare work such as Mr. Justice J. Steyn, who made this appeal some three years ago, but to date we have had no reaction from the Government in this regard.

Another aspect which is important to the pensioner is the question of taxation on his pension. Many pensioners complain bitterly of the fact that while they are no longer economically employed and they have to live on a reduced income, they are still required to pay tax. The hon. the Minister has made a concession with regard to the over-sixty-year-old taxpayer. On a number of occasions we have pleaded for greater concessions to be made for the taxpayer of this particular age, and particularly for those taxpayers who are receiving pensions. If one looks at the Income Tax Act, one observes that under certain circumstances certain pensions are not included as taxable incomes and are accordingly exempted, such as war disablement pensions, war veterans pensions and miners phthisis pensions. I believe that the hon. the Minister of Finance could assist some of these older people in South Africa who are now dependent on a pension which is becoming less and less in its purchasing power, and afford them some relief in as far as taxation on their pensions is concerned.

Another aspect which I would also like to raise with the hon. the Minister of Finance is that concerning loan levies. We know that the hon. the Minister has repaid two loan levies quite recently: the 1966 loan levy which was repaid just before Christmas and the 1967 loan levy which was repaid on the 1st March. We also know that legislation was passed last year whereby certain persons might apply for a refund of their loan levy should they no longer be liable for income tax. Earlier this session I asked the hon. the Minister of Finance for information in this particular regard. Unfortunately, the hon. the Minister was unable to give me any information as far as this aspect is concerned. However, the hon. the Minister of Finance, in reply to a question of mine on Tuesday, 13th March, 1973, (Questions and Replies, col. 424) said—

The position is that there are people, who have been taxpayers in the past, who have paid this loan levy and have reached an advanced age in some cases. Their living costs have increased because of increased medical costs. Many of these people require these loan levies refunded to them at an earlier date. We hope that the hon. the Minister of Finance will bear in mind the repayment of these loan levies, particularly as it affects the older taxpayers who now require this money. I do hope he will give due consideration to this particular aspect.

I have dealt mainly with the position of the White social pensioner and the aged White person. I think that it is a great pity as far as this Budget is concerned, that it appears to be the aim to perpetuate the ratio with regard to the payment of pensions between Whites and non-Whites which has existed for many years. Surely, when one considers the pleas that have been made to close the wage gap between Whites and non-Whites, the Government has the power to narrow the pension gap. The hon. the Minister of Finance merely announced, during the course of his speech, that R4 per month was to be granted to the White social pensioner and that an increase would be granted on the existing ratio to the non-Whites too. This means that they will continue to observe the ratio of 4: 2: 1, which means that the increase to the Coloured and Indian social pensioner will amount to R2 per month from the 1st October while the increase as far as the Bantu social pensioner is concerned, will amount to only R1 per month. I am sure that the hon. the Chief Whip who spoke about the necessity for change in this Christian country and who said that we must recognize the necessity for change, will agree with me that this ratio is something which requires change, and overhaul; it needs to move with the times.

Do we really expect a person who is dependent upon a small income such as a social pension to live on that pension? A Coloured and an Indian pensioner only receives an extra R2 per month, while a Bantu social pensioner only receives R1 per month. The bare necessities of life cost so much more today. These persons require food to eat, which costs more; they require shelter, which costs more; and they require clothes, which cost more. In yesterday’s newspaper we again saw that an increase in the cost of clothing is expected. Clothing is one of the bare necessities of life. Yet we persist to expect from a particular racial group who will receive only R1 per month more from the 1st October this year, to be satisfied with the Government’s appreciation of the work that these pioneers have played in the development of South Africa. Surely the Government is failing dismally in bringing about relief to the poorer section of our community. These people fall under the group covered by the amendment moved by the hon. member for Parktown. This amendment refers to the lowest income group. These people are expected to try to live and exist on this amount. Many of them have no other means of financial support to supplement these meagre amounts. Surely, in times of surpluses, the hon. the Minister of Finance could allow his Government and this country to pay in full the debt of gratitude which it owes to so many of the pioneers of South Africa.

Mr. Speaker, I think hon. members of the Opposition are very thankful because this debate has now drawn to an end. [Interjections.] I think they have found it difficult enough to persist over these five days in attempted attacks on the Government. Because humane considerations still count with me and because I am sorry for them, I do not want to make things even more difficult for them. Therefore I move—

Agreed to.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

I make haste to explain that in the main this Bill actually serves to grant legal authority for certain administrative actions of the Reserve Bank.

†It has always been my contention and I have always understood that the functions of the governor and the deputy governors were rather to deal with matters of high policy than to be saddled and involved with the administrative details of the bank.

*In the main these amendments are being effected pursuant to a legal opinion obtained by the bank to the effect that it would be preferable for certain actions undertaken by the bank and its officials to be decreed by legislation. Therefore I want to explain briefly the provisions of this legislation.

In terms of section 8(1) of the principal Act the bank may, subject to the provisions of section 9, in which the conditions are determined, inter alia open credits and issue guarantees. As I have just outlined here, it is therefore incumbent upon the governor or the deputy governors, in terms of the existing legislation, to implement this legislation. That may be done either by way of a delegation of a specific nature or by way of a general delegation. But owing to various circumstances, which I should like to explain, it is not always possible, in view of the restrictive authorisation embodied in the existing legislation in respect of the delegation of powers to the governor or to the deputy governors only, to carry out the functions of the bank effectively and efficiently. Let me mention, for instance, that the governor and his deputy governors are often required, owing to official duties, to be abroad or to travel to distant places, and I therefore think that in respect of the discharge of administrative duties, a strong case can be made out for its having to be possible to appoint other officials to discharge these duties. Sir, as is being provided by section 6bis of the existing Reserve Bank Act, the powers of the board of the bank may in terms of the Act be delegated to the governor or the deputy governors, but only to them. It often happens, as I have already indicated, that these officials, who in my opinion should chiefly be charged with aspects of policy rather than with the administrative functioning of the bank, are in any case not available here to fulfil these functions, and for that reason it is essential that further powers of delegation be conferred upon other officials so that matters requiring urgent attention may be disposed of in the absence of the governor and his deputy governors. Therefore this amendment does in actual fact merely seek to facilitate the administration of the Act, to improve the effective disposal of the business of the bank, and for that reason it is essential in my opinion that officials such as the general managers should also have the right to deputize in terms of authorized delegations in respect of powers which have been entrusted to the bank and which may in the present circumstances only be delegated to the governor and the deputy governor.

Sir, now I am going to refer to clause 2(a) and (b) of this draft legislation. In this regard it should be noted that section 8 of the Act lays down the powers and duties of the bank, and that in terms of section 8 (1)(a) the Reserve Bank may make or cause bank notes to be made and may issue bank notes. That is one of the functions entrusted to the bank so that it may carry out the tasks of the Reserve Bank. In the past these notes were printed in the United Kingdom, but for several reasons it is being deemed preferable that the notes be manufactured locally. The South African Banknote Company was established for this specific purpose, and at present the bank holds the total issued share capital of this company. In order to prevent any legal problems which may result from the establishment and the operations of this company, it is being deemed desirable to amend the Act as envisaged in the new subsection 8(1)(a). Sir, one of the duties of the central banks, and therefore of the Reserve Bank as well, is to ensure that the clearing of claims among banking institutions takes place in an orderly manner. As a result of the tremendous increase in the volume of cheques and other documents which have to be cleared daily, all the members of the clearing office have decided to establish a private company, the Automated Clearing Bureau (Pty.) Ltd. by name, with the object of acquiring on a lease basis the necessary machinery—inter alia a computer—in order to assist in the processing of the various duties of the clearing office. This company was established on 21st June, 1972. Just as was the case with other banks involved in the activities of the clearing office, the Reserve Bank also had to take up part of the share capital of the company and, secondly, the Reserve Bank, like the other banks, also had to grant loans to the company, loans on which interest is calculated and in respect of which the capital has to be paid back over a specified period. These funds are required inter alia for the normal day-to-day expenditure and for providing the company with the necessary working capital. Each bank’s commitment to this company is calculated on the basis of the real volume of work done for it by this institution, and the loan will be paid back from the moneys paid from time to time to the company by its members in respect of the clearing services undertaken by the company on behalf of its members. The proposed subsection 8(1)(aB) and the amended section 8(1)(c) are therefore aimed at authorizing the bank to establish and organize such a clearing system, to take up shares in a company formed for this purpose, and to grant unsecured or uninsured loans to the company. Although this company is at present the only company to which unsecured or uninsured loans have been made by the Reserve Bank, it is considered to be desirable that a more general provision be inserted in the legislation, as envisaged by the amended section 8(1)(c), with a view to possible cases of a similar nature which may occur in the future and which will result in further statutory amendments. I want to make haste at once to give the assurance, which in fact is also embodied in the legislation, that these loans may only be granted with the approval of the Minister of Finance and that this will be done with the greatest measure of circumspection. The principle contained in the proposed section 8(1)(aC), i.e. that the bank may take up shares in companies with limited liability, is no new principle; it already exists. In this regard I must point out that as far back as 1949 the bank was authorized, in terms of the provisions of section 6(1) of the National Finance Corporation Act, Act No. 33 of 1949, to take up shares in this particular corporation, and at present the Reserve Bank holds 10% of the issued capital of the corporation, i.e. R600 000. However, except for the shares that had to be taken up in the South African Banknote Company and the Automated Clearing Bureau (Pty.) Ltd., as I have already explained, one may have the position developing in the future that the bank will also have to take up shares of members in other companies with limited liability for the proper discharge of the duties entrusted to it and for the effective handling of its operations. Therefore the relevant subsection specifically seeks to delegate by law such a power to the bank, to make provision for taking up such shares of members in such companies with limited liability, as it is done in the case of the taking up of shares in other banking institutions, but I want to repeat that this can only be done with the approval of the Treasury.

I shall now refer to clause 2(d) of the Bill. Section 9(c) of the Act provides that the bank may not lend or advance money on mortgage of fixed property or on notarial or other bond or cession thereof except to an officer or employee of the bank for the purpose of enabling him to acquire a dwelling for his own use. However, as section 8 of the Act deals with the actual powers of the bank, I endorse the standpoint that the powers of the bank, as provided for in section 9(c) at present should rather be incorporated specifically with the provisions of section 8 as they could be more appropriately written into that section. As section 8(1)(n) will read, if this Bill is passed, it will in future also be possible for money to be lent to the spouse of an official or employee of the bank. I want to say at once that I have in the meantime given consideration to an extension of the bank’s powers to grant loans to the spouse of an employee as well. For various reasons I do not think it fit to proceed with this principle, and I want to notify hon. members now that I shall propose an amendment at the Committee Stage in order to delete this extension in the power of the bank to grant a loan to a spouse of an official.

The proposed subsection 8(1)(o) provides that the bank may alienate immovable property. In this regard I must explain at once that this power to alienate immovable property was not previously provided for in the Act. However, I think hon. members will concede at once that it is actually incompatible that the bank will have the right to acquire immovable property and will, on the other hand, not have the power to alienate it. In the absence of this particular power it happened that the bank wanted to donate certain property to the city council of Pretoria for the purposes of widening a street. The bank subsequently experienced tremendous problems in having the transfer of the property effected. Therefore I think that there cannot be any basic objections to this proposed provision.

The remaining clauses of the Bill are merely of a consequential nature and I do not think they require any further explanation.

Mr. Speaker, we have no objection to this Bill, but there are one or two points on which we should like to have clarity. In clause 1 of the Bill authority is now given to the board to delegate not only the Governor or to any Deputy-Governor, but to any other officer of the Bank. I think there are three questions here which have to be asked. First of all I should like to know whether the board will retain the responsibility for any of the actions of the person to whom that authority is delegated. This seems to be commonly accepted, but we should like an assurance on that point. The second question is how far down the line this delegation will go. This is a problem we find in many Bills. We should like to say that authority should be delegated to a senior member of the Bank in this case, but apparently there is no way of finding a legal definition of “a senior member”. Since we have raised this matter three, four or five times, I think it is time the Government gave some thought to finding a definition so that we will know where this delegation stops. The third point I wish to raise is in connection with the statement by the hon. the Deputy Minister that the Deputy-Governor may be away. However, the Bank has three Deputy-Governors. Are they all sent away at the same time? I should imagine that it would be rather unusual for the Governor and the three Deputy-Governors not to be in South Africa. However, we do not have a basic objection in this regard. In regard to the proposed subsection (1)(aB), inserted by clause (a), which has as its object the establishment and organization of a clearing system, I wonder if the hon. the Deputy Minister thinks that this power is wide enough. We know about the on-line system with the computer which is being organized by the banks, but this paragraph gives the Reserve Bank the right to “establish and organize”. I am not sure whether it includes the right to participate. In other words, if this clearing system is not being established or organized by the Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank may not have the right, in terms of this clause, to participate in the scheme. I think the hon. the Deputy Minister may well be advised to consider including the word “participate” in this clause so that it would read “establish and organize or participate in a clearing system”. Actually, I do not think the Reserve Bank either established or organized the system, although it might have had something to do with it.

With regard to clause 2(d), I am glad that the hon. the Minister has taken out this right of a spouse to be able to borrow. We saw certain problems that might arise in the event of the spouse of a member of the bank becoming divorced or dying, when there would be the strange position that the loan would be really to the employee, but in fact the bond would be registered against his divorced or deceased wife. Now this provision puts the position right.

I am not altogether at one with the hon. the Deputy Minister on the question of donations. Before we approve of this particular subsection in the Committee Stage, we would like some more information. The hon. the Deputy Minister said that perhaps the Reserve Bank might want to donate a property to the city of Pretoria. I can see no reason whatsoever for the Reserve Bank donating any building to anybody. It is a business institution. It is an organization which has shareholders, makes profits and pays dividends. It seems to me that there is no reason to provide in this Bill for a donation of immovable property by the Reserve Bank. If the unlikely occasion should arise that the Reserve Bank wants to donate one of its properties to somebody, institution, ex-governor or Minister of Finance, whatever the Minister may decide to do, I think he should come specifically to Parliament for that authority. I do not believe that the donation of property forms part of the objects of the Reserve Bank. Subject to those comments we will support the Bill.

Mr. Speaker, we have before us here this afternoon a very small Bill, but I wonder whether we all realize its importance. If we consider that this amending Bill deals with the South African Reserve Bank, it is perhaps of importance to take cognizance of the fact that the Reserve Bank may be of greater importance than most of us realize. This Reserve Bank controls, determines, directs and regulates the monetary as well as the credit policy of South Africa. This in itself affects every male and female citizen of this country. The Budget which is presented annually, affects one and all in South Africa. The hon. the Minister of Finance this year made available to us the statistical survey for 1973-’74 for which we may all be grateful. This survey contains no less than 13 pages of statistics, data, and so forth, taken from the annual report of the Reserve Bank. I would just like to mention one or two of these before returning later to the amendments effected in the Bill. So, for example, I may mention the distribution of the net national income, the gross domestic expenditure, the changes against the previous year in the total supply and use of goods and services, personal income, expenditure and savings, the composition of private consumption expenditure, the gross domestic investment. I could mention many more, such as the balance of payments which we are concerned about every day and which I shall also have something to say about in a moment. Another sub-heading is “money and near-money in the hands of private businesses and households”. Another paragraph in this report deals with public debt. All these things I have just mentioned just show us how important the Bill before us is.

It is also necessary to point out that the Reserve Bank was established in 1920 when the Currency and Banking Act, Act No. 31 of 1920, was passed. This Bill gave the Reserve Bank the sole right to issue notes for the following 25 years. In 1944 the Minister of Finance, the late Mr. J. H. Hofmeyr, brought into being the South African Reserve Bank Act, Act No. 29 of 1944, and it is perhaps important to note what the then Minister of Finance said. I quote from Hansard, column 5615, of 21st April, 1944—

We can therefore see that at that stage we had already taken the lead just as this small country of ours has taken the lead in many fields, such as heart transplantations, and so forth. Experiments were made and the venture was perfected, though not completely. I shall likewise indicate later that in this Bill we have a further amendment. I quote further—

This shows us how we made an experiment at that time which was later perfected completely. By means of this Bill further attempts are being made to improve something which was not perfect at that time. In 1944 the scope of the Act was also extended considerably as we are also endeavouring today to extend the scope of the Reserve Bank by means of this Bill and to create more channels for it. I shall deal with this in greater detail when coming back to the various clauses at a later stage. Adjustments have been made to extend the Act in accordance with the developing concept of the scope of the central bank. In which way the Act has been extended and what has stemmed from that I want to elucidate by quoting further from what Mr. Hofmeyr said at that time. He said, inter alia, with regard to the Reserve Bank (Column 5156)—

This shows us how its powers were then extended. In terms of Act No. 29 of 1944, the bank at that time attained the right to print bank notes for all time in the future. We simply could not always have our bank notes printed overseas and elsewhere. It became very necessary that for administrative reasons, as the hon. the Deputy Minister said, we should change to a position where a private company would print all the notes. I just want to refer to the three questions put by the hon. member for Parktown. He asked whether the Reserve Bank would be the sole shareholder. As far as I know, this will be the case. He was correct in saying that only the Reserve Bank may issue bank notes. There is no reason whatsoever why any other company should hold shares in the South African Note company. Therefore he can rest assured that everything will be in order.

The hon. member for Parktown also asked another question in connection with the delegation of powers. I think that the question which he asked is a very good question. I asked myself the same question. He asked to what extent the board would accept responsibility for subordinate officials to whom the powers would be delegated. After all, it goes without saying that just as the directors accept responsibility for the governor and the deputy-governors when powers are delegated to them, they must also accept responsibility if, for example, they go one step lower. As the hon. member for Parktown said, it is of course a difficult matter to define exactly who is a senior official and where the line must be drawn. It is true that we live in a time of specialization. Now it may be with the various facets of the bank, as in any other large undertaking, that there will be specialized people in certain fields. Let us assume there are five men who specialize in one field—say, arguments’ sake, in the field of foreign payments—and that the third man in that section is the capable man who has first claim to further promotion in the future. He is the man who has made a thorough study of that section. He is conversant with those matters because he has been overseas and he knows what is going on there. He knows exactly what all the answers are, from A to Z. Now it would be difficult for me to tell official No. 1 of the subordinate officials to take part in a conference or to handle certain transactions or matters, and not official No. 3. On account of other circumstances and as a result of certain other rules which applied, official No. 1 reached a position higher than that occupied by official No. 3. Official No. 3 was, however, exceptionally suited to handle that matter. We believe in efficiency and this Budget has also aimed at greater efficiency and productivity. Since this is the case, as far as I am concerned this is the obvious procedure and I shall not find fault in our using official No. 3 to handle this matter on behalf of the Reserve Bank and on behalf of South Africa. The Reserve Bank is in all respects in the service of South Africa. It is therefore in the interests of banking, and in the interests of the private sector, the State and all of us that official No. 3 should handle the transaction. These powers which we are going to grant in terms of this amending legislation are of course only administrative. Without our or anybody else knowing about it the board could have delegated certain powers. Now everything is put very clearly. These people may now act within the law, within their authority and within their powers. However, this indicates to me that if we were to do this, we would achieve greater productivity and would utilize our manpower to better effect than would otherwise have been the case.

In the second place, we are dealing with the training of junior staff. This year’s Budget holds out the prospect that much will be done in South Africa to provide employees with in-service and out-of-service training. Through this powers will be delegated to a certain extent, but it will not be done to a large extent and powers will not be irresponsibly delegated either. The powers which are to be delegated will not be substantial, but in this way a junior official will be given the opportunity to receive training so that should it happen that the governor or the deputy-governor is absent or has perhaps died, they will be able to know how to handle matters. Then the junior officials who have had the training, will be experienced and they will know how to handle the matter. At the moment there are a governor and three deputy governors. Anything may happen in this life. An example of what can happen was when the chiefs of the Wool Board were all killed as a result of an aircraft accident. For that reason I say that in any organization it is a very good thing that one’s junior people should also be trained. Then there is something else concerning the delegation of powers. Say, for example, a deputation of two men from the Reserve Bank has to be sent to a conference. The board can send one of the deputies and a junior as well because then one has a senior official there while the junior can be trained by taking part in the discussions and by learning to carry responsibility.

The hon. member for Parktown also raised another question when he referred to something which in my opinion is of tremendous importance in the world in which we are living today. He referred to the clearing system in South Africa. We live in the age of the computer. Mankind would never have been able to land on the moon were it not for the computer. Likewise, not much would have been achieved today in the field of banking had use not been made of computers. As far as this matter is concerned, I agree with the hon. member for Parktown. In the future much more use will have to be made of computers. Let us take the airways as an example. Today one walks into an airways office to book a seat. The lady sits at the computer and by employing a few figures and codes she can tell you in a flash whether there is a seat on that aircraft or not. All data concerning bookings throughout the Republic are contained in the brain of the computer and if there are vacant seats—it does not matter where you want to go—you can immediately book your seat. If we were unable to use computers in our banking sector, the clearing system would become an impossibility.

The hon. member asked whether we could not go further with this Bill. If there is any doubt about that, I shall support it. I agree with the hon. member for Parktown that there should be no obscurity concerning any clause in a Bill. I personally think that the clause as it stands here is not obscure. If I had introduced something of which I am in charge, I could do what I liked with it and if I should want to organize it further, I could organize it for whatever ends I liked; the same goes for the accounting system of the Reserve Bank. If however, there is any doubt about that it will be very easy to change it in the Committee Stage. Let us then put it very clearly, without any shadow of doubt, that the Reserve Bank has all those powers. However, should any further doubt exist, I would go so far as to say that we should make those powers far wider. I think it is for the hon. the Deputy Minister of Finance to express his opinion concerning this. I am very sure that if he were able to improve the position, the hon. the Deputy Minister would not hesitate to do so. That is really the whole object of this Bill before the House. The hon. the Deputy Minister even went so far as to amend sections 8 and 9 to make them read better and fit in better. In section 9 of the Act certain objectives were, to a certain extent, negatively entrenched. Now those points appear in section 8, something which will make for better reading by far.

We on this side of the House would like to express our thanks for this amendment and for the powers which are being given to the Reserve Bank. We are very pleased that we have such a Reserve Bank in South Africa. As I have said, it was really an experiment; this bank was a prestige bank, which competed in the world and attained great heights. In the past, our Reserve Bank in South Africa with its governor, its deputy-governors, its staff, its reports and its documents which are from time to time made known to the public, and also with its present steps in organizing and regulating our monetary and credit policy in South Africa, has always had a very high standing not only in the eyes of the business world and locally, but also abroad; we can say today with pride that that bank, in comparison with other central banks of other governments, has a very high standing. Therefore we must thank those people. It is of course also under the leadership of our capable Minister of Finance, that these heights have been attained. For that I say: “Thank you very much.”

Mr. Speaker. I hasten to thank the hon. member for Sunnyside at once for the informative contribution he made with regard to the historic development of the Reserve Bank as the central bank in our country. I immediately agree with the view he took in this regard. Of course, he is quite correct that, as our country’s economic and financial activities expand, the burden of work on this bank will increase from time to time. He is also quite right when he says that our business and trade life in this country have become much more sophisticated. For that reason it becomes essential from time to time that we also make the necessary adjustments in our legislation, in terms of which these functions are fulfilled, to bring it into line with modern and present-day demands.

†Mr. Speaker, I should like to reply to the issues raised by the hon. member for Parktown. The first question he put to me was whether the board of directors of the Bank would be responsible for the actions of these officials acting in terms of delegated powers. It is correct that the powers, in terms of the Act, vest in the board. But in order that the Bank should fulfil its function, it is imperative and obligatory that powers must be delegated to officials. In the first place I want to say that the principle of the delegation of powers already exists. In terms of the existing law, the board is entitled to delegate some of its powers to the Governor and the Deputy-Governors. Naturally, the common law principle would apply in this particular regard, and that is that the employer would be responsible for any action of his employees, provided that they act within the scope of their responsibility and employment. In other words, I hasten to assure the hon. member that the same principle would be applicable as regards any other official to whom any powers may be delegated by the board.

The second question raised by the hon. member was how far down the line the board intends to delegate these powers. Let me concede immediately that this is always a difficult matter, but I would like to suggest that the hon. member be satisfied with the assurance that I am prepared to give, and that is that the extent to which powers are delegated will be determined by the responsibility of the official and the nature of the particular function that has to be fulfilled. I do not think that we need have any fears that powers will be delegated to officials who do not have the necessary sense of responsibility to perform the acts which are entrusted to them under delegated powers.

Sir, the hon. member has raised the point —I think quite fairly—whether it might not happen that the Governor and the three deputies are all absent at the same time. Sir, it does happen unfortunately. During this session of Parliament, for instance, there have been meetings of the Committee of Twenty and other committees, which normally would have been attended by the Minister of Finance, but he had to stay here, so other people had to go on his behalf. It does happen that all these gentlemen are away from office at the same time, although not necessarily abroad. [Interjection.] No, he did not attend the meeting because the Budget debate was taking place. As I say, it does happen that all these officials are away from office at the same time but there is still the day-to-day work that has to be done and documents that have to be signed which need the signature of somebody who has the necessary delegated powers.

Then the hon. member wanted to know whether the Reserve Bank holds all the shares in the South African Note Company. I hasten to say that that is so. That was not the position originally, but that is the position at the moment.

His second question was whether the term “to organize a clearing system” goes far enough to give the bank the right to participate in such a system. The hon. member was kind enough to mention this matter to me beforehand. I am personally satisfied that as the section now reads it would give the Reserve Bank not only the right to establish and organize a clearing system, but that the provision is wide enough to allow the bank to participate in that system. May I just explain why I say this. If the hon. member will refer to the section, he will see that it reads as follows—

The company will be responsible for the actual clearing work, but the bank holding a share in the capital, as it does, will have a say in the operations of that company. My personal interpretation, and also that of our law advisers, is that the section is wide enough as it now stands.

Is the hon. the Deputy Minister not rather putting the cart before the horse? The reason why you can hold the shares is because of this wording, “establish and organize”, not vice versa. I would like the hon. the Deputy Minister to consider that so that we can debate it in the Committee Stage.

I am quite prepared to do that, Mr. Speaker, but I should like to conclude on this issue by stating that we are satisfied that the section is wide enough to allow the bank to participate in the accounting and the clearing system for the purposes of the functioning of the bank.

Then the hon. member also dealt with the question of loans to the wives of employees. I just want to repeat in this connection that I am going to move in the Committee Stage that the words “or to the spouse of any such employee” be deleted.

Lastly, the hon. member referred to the question of donations. Sir, I have explained that in terms of the existing law the bank can acquire property. It can acquire property for two purposes, firstly if the property is required for the business of the bank itself, and secondly the bank has the right to acquire property to house its officials. In other words, the right of acquisition of immovable property by the bank is limited in terms of the existing law. The power to alienate property does not vest in the bank in terms of the law as it now stands. It may well be that the bank may lend money to an official who does not repay the loan to the bank and the property may then have to be sold. The property may be sold in a depressed market and may not fetch the amount of the loan, which would then force the bank to buy in that property. As the law stands now, it will be allowed to buy it, but not to alienate it. Once we have given the bank the right to acquire immovable property for purposes other than the two for which immovable property may be acquired by it now, the bank may sometimes find itself landed with a property which it does not require. The right to alienate that property is apparently not in dispute but I think what worries the hon. member is that that property may be alienated in the form of a donation. He suggests that if an occasion like that should arise, it would be better to come to Parliament with an amending section to empower the bank to do whatever may be necessary in those particular circumstances. I hasten to say that because the powers of the bank are limited in respect of the purposes for which it may acquire property, the purposes for which the bank may alienate property are also limited. They can only acquire property for certain specific purposes. In other words, they can only own property required for certain specific purposes. There is thus a limitation on the bank’s powers to acquire property. Once the bank’s powers are limited as far as the acquisition of property is concerned, its powers are equally limited as far as the alienation of property is concerned. Let me explain why this particular section is necessary. It happened just recently—last year—that a street that crosses the bank’s property, had to be widened and a strip of land had to be transferred to the Pretoria Council. That strip of land was not sold by the bank but was donated to the city council. The hon. member may ask why this strip of land was donated. I presume it was donated because the bank derived certain benefits from the widening of this particular street. There was no need for the bank to negotiate with the city council on the question of compensation, because this strip of land was simply donated to the city council. I personally cannot foresee that there is any likelihood that this provision will be abused in view of what I have said about the bank’s limited powers of acquisition.

Secondly, I believe that central banks are not easily convinced to dispose of property by way of donation. But I would like to suggest that we leave this matter here and discuss it again in the Committee Stage.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read a Second Time.

Since the Registrar may appoint trade mark agents and since South-West Africa has to cope with enormous distances and all the smaller towns do not have legal practitioners, I should like to know from the hon. the Deputy Minister in which way the appointments could be made so as to cause the minimum inconvenience; whether an agent will be appointed in each town and whether these people have to apply for appointment? As I have said, we are asking this in order to eliminate as much inconvenience as possible, because we find that new initiations sometimes inconvenience the public.

I want to say at the outset that I appreciate the problem the hon. member has particularly in regard to the exceptional circumstances which apply in South-West as far as distances are concerned. I also realize that when the South-West Africa Affairs Act was approved at that time hon. members were given the assurance that the aggravating circumstances would, as far as possible, be met in regard to the work entrusted to the State. I want to say straight away that the work in respect of trade mark legislation is not easy work; that it is in fact complicated work and for that reason people who have to deal with this work are expected to have certain qualifications. These people dealing with trade marks and patents are required to have a particular and specialized knowledge. In the first place, they have to have a certain knowledge of the legal aspects of the matters they deal with and they must know what is acceptable for a trade mark in terms of the law. All the persons recognized as trade mark agents here in the Republic—this is really what the hon. member has in mind as far as South-West Africa is concerned—are, with the exception of a few, recognized patent right agents. In other words, if one is a patent right agent, he may normally also act as a trade mark agent. A patent right agent is required to have high qualifications and he has to pass fairly complicated examinations. The syllabus of the examinations these patent right agents have to pass, are prescribed and fairly high standards are laid down for these examinations. May I just furnish an example. Apart from those I have referred to, questions are put to him on copyright, the law relating to designs, law of procedure in the Supreme Court and commercial law. A patent right agent is also expected to pass examinations in physics, chemistry and engineering drawings. The hon. member will therefore appreciate that this is in fact a complicated process. The whole course extends over a period of four years. I also want to furnish him with a reply to his question immediately by saying that where this clause now lays down that the Registrar must use his discretion in regard to the capabilities of the people he will approve to act as agents in matters relating to trade marks, we have to lay down this specific qualification, i.e. that the people should be qualified to be able to do the work, and this will be the norm the Registrar will apply.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 48:

Mr. Chairman, at the time of the Second Reading of this Bill certain points of view were put to the hon. the Deputy Minister which we felt required more elucidation. I should appreciate it if the hon. the Deputy Minister will use this opportunity to do so.

Mr. Chairman, I did tell the hon. member that I would give him further information during the Committee Stage to elucidate this matter. I am glad that he did rise on this occasion to give me the opportunity of giving more detail. I should like to explain that this clause refers to registered users of trade marks. The effect thereof is to allow persons, other than the proprietor, to use the trade mark. Naturally when a proprietor is selling his goods or services under his trade mark, he has taken steps to ensure that the quality of those goods and services is of a high standard and his reputation which, in turn, means his income, depends on the maintenance of that standard. When the proprietor expands the field of his activities, he may find it necessary to decentralize. In the case of the manufacturing industry in South-West Africa the same position may obtain.

In this process of decentralization the proprietor may agree with other persons to undertake the manufacture on his behalf and he may allow them to market their product under his trade mark. In such a case he would naturally ensure that the product which is so marketed would be of the same high standard and quality as his own product. The proprietor will then take it further and he will then enter into an agreement with the other persons that, subject to such quality controls as he may consider necessary, he will allow his products to be manufactured and marketed by them in terms of the agreement. In this arrangement the proprietor will not only give the other persons the particulars of the manufacturing process, but he will also disclose to them the important element in the manufacturing process of “know how”; in other words, the expertise. Obviously, arrangements such as these could be an important stimulus to the industrial potential of South-West Africa. I think it should be encouraged. The Registrar of Patents and Trade Marks is required to satisfy himself that the conditions contained in the registered user agreement comply with the requirements of the legislation and that the use of the trade mark by a person other than the proprietor will not be misleading or give rise to traffic in trade marks.

In conclusion I should like to explain that provision for registered users was made in the Republic with effect from 1948, but the Ordinance which provided for trade mark registration in South-West Africa was not amended at the time. However, a number of such registrations did, in fact, take place under the erroneous impression that the law of South-West Africa was the same as the law in the Republic. It is therefore necessary to make the provision relating to registered users retrospective to safeguard existing rights, not only in respect of registrations made but also in respect of the use by other persons of a trade mark with the proprietor’s consent but without having obtained registration.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 52:

Mr. Chairman, this clause provides for the use of certification marks. A few years ago the Karakul Board of South West Africa applied for the name “Swakara” to be registered as a certification mark. This application was rejected. I now want to ask the hon. the Deputy Minister whether this matter could be reconsidered. South-West Africa produces approximately 3½ million karakul skins per year which earn foreign currency of about R30 million per year. The Karakul Board was established for the very purpose of exercising control over the marketing of the product and to ensure that products of a poor quality do not reach the market. In my humble opinion the Karakul Board is capable of exercising proper control over this certification mark if the authority to do so were granted to them. As you know, Sir, karakul skins from South Africa are being marketed abroad under the name “Swakara”, a name which has become well known. I now want to ask the hon. the Deputy Minister whether there is any possibility of reconsidering this application made by the Karakul Board.

Mr. Chairman, I want to say at the outset that, like the hon. member for Mariental, I am also aware of the special position of the karakul sheep and karakul products in the economy of South-West Africa. Neither am I unaware of the contribution it makes to the economy of our own country. An application was submitted in the past by the Karakul Board to have the name “Swakara” registered as a certification mark. For the information of the hon. member I now have to explain that a certification mark is viewed in a particular light. Although the basic principles of the trade mark practice applies to it, there are also other considerations.

It is a fact that a certification mark should be distinctive and should be capable of being registered in Part A of the register. In the third place, it must not offend against any existing registered trade mark. The main difference between trade marks and certification marks is that the latter is used by an undertaking which does not undertake the marketing itself but merely acts in a supervisory capacity. When an undertaking therefore applies for the registration of a certification mark, he must be able to satisfy the Registrar that it is capable not only of laying down the directions according to which the quality of the goods or services may be tested, but also of ensuring that those instructions are carried out, in the first place, in the case of goods, at the production point and then after the products have been marketed. As a matter of fact, this also applies in respect of the wool mark. After the product has been marketed, tests are, from time to time, carried out on the article marketed to ascertain whether it can stand the quality tests applied at the production control point. When application is therefore made for a mark of this nature, the applicant has to submit rules to the Registrar. I now want to make haste—without taking up your time, Sir—and say that certification marks, as in the case of any other trade mark, cover the whole field of commerce and industry, as well as the business world.

There is not one profitable undertaking, of whatever nature it may be, which does not use a trade mark. When the certification mark has been approved the proprietor may at any time change his rules with the consent of the Registrar. From the nature of the control exercised by the Registrar over certification marks, it is appropriate that the proprietor, if he intends ceding his certification marks, obtains the prior approval of the board. In the consideration of the application by the Karakul Board to register the name “Swakara” as a certification mark, the principles mentioned above will apply. I want to say at once that the Ordinance which applied before did not lay down the requirements as I have indicated a moment ago. If the Karakul Board is of the opinion that its rules are adequate and it is in the position to carry out the necessary tests at the production points and marketing points, they should once more apply to the Registrar for the registration of “Swakara” as a certification mark in terms of the provisions of the new Act.

Clause agreed to.

House Resumed:

Bill reported without amendment.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

This Bill seeks to give statutory recognition to historic events and administrative procedures which have for many years been the practice. It may with good reason be asked why this change has become necessary after such a long period of time. I wish to furnish a reply to that question immediately and inform this House that since the Bureau of the “Woordeboek” has, especially of late, been receiving regular donations of books and other donations, and an increasing revenue from investments has to be expected, its juristic personality should, firstly, be established beyond all doubt so that it will be possible to utilize, inter alia, the revenue from investments. Secondly, it is necessary for the Bureau to be indemnified against prosecution, and thirdly, it is desirable to afford employees of the Bureau statutory protection in regard to their rights and privileges.

Before I elucidate the contents of the Bill in greater detail, I deem it desirable, for the purposes of the record, to furnish a brief survey of the origins of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal (WAT), or die Afrikaanse Woordeboek, as it is also known. Even before 1920 ideas had been exchanged in regard to such a dictionary, and on 10th July, 1920 an article appeared in Die Burger in which reference was made to a letter from Prof. J. J. Smith, then professor of Afrikaans at the University of Stellenbosch, in which, inter alia, he praised the Nasionale Pers for having taken the lead in collecting funds for the compilation of Afrikaans dictionaries, firstly, a more popular bilingual dictionary and subsequently an explanatory Afrikaanse Woordeboek as well. An amount of R1 206 was collected at the time and subsequently supplemented by the Nasionale Pers to an amount of R1 800 for defrayal of the costs.

Negotiations were conducted from 1920 onwards, and on 12th March, 1925, a joint committee of both Houses, consisting of Senators Langenhoven, Reitz and Schweizer, Drs. Malan and Van der Merwe and Mr. Krige, recommended, inter alia, that a Government grant be made available for an authoritative dictionary. Consequently it was decided that an explanatory dictionary, in Afrikaans only, should be published; that a subsidy should be paid to the publisher; that an editor-in-chief be appointed, and that the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns should, if desired, guarantee the scientific accuracy of the work. In terms of this decision an agreement was entered into in 1926 between the Government, the University of Stellenbosch, the Nasionale Pers, and Prof. Smith as editor-in-chief. At that stage it was expected that the work would be completed within three years and three months. A subsidy of R20 000 subsequently increased to R26 000, was provided by the State.

In 1930 the University of Stellenbosch took over the responsibility from the Nasionale Pers, and the entire undertaking moved from Cape Town to Stellenbosch. In 1936 the Government, before appropriating further funds, had an investigation instituted into the progress that had been made. The finding was that it would take another 15 to 20 years before the work would have been disposed of.

Although a great deal had been done and good progress had been made, no dictionary had appeared by 1945. At that stage the Government had already contributed R55 000 and the University of Stellenbosch approximately R29 000 to the undertaking. In that year Prof. Smith fell ill and could not continue the work, and Prof. R. W. Wilcocks, then rector of the University of Stellenbosch, acted as administrative head. As a result of his illness Prof. Smith subsequently had to relinquish the post of editor-in-chief. At that stage the then Minister of Education once again, before the Government continued its financial assistance, had an investigation instituted into the state of affairs of the WAT. To this end the Minister appointed a committee under the chairmanship of Adv. A. H. Broeksma. In the meantime the University of Stellenbosch decided to continue with the work at its own expense. The Broeksma Committee instituted a thorough investigation into all aspects of the work, and its proposals contributed to the undertaking being placed on a sound basis both editorially and administratively. I mention briefly the following points:

1. 1. All previous contracts in regard to the undertaking were cancelled;
2. 2. The board of control over WAT was established, consisting of: Adv. A. A. Roberts, the then Secretary for Education, as chairman; Mr. G. A. C. Kuschke, the then Secretary for Social Welfare, as member of the board; Dr. R. W. Wilcocks, the rector of the University of Stellenbosch, as administrator; and Dr. D. B. Bosman on behalf of the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns, as member of the board of control;
3. 3. This board, inter alia, had to make appointments, control funds, and ensure the orderly and proper continuation and completion of the work;
4. 4. The Government accepted financial responsibility for WAT, provided the University made an annual amount of R3 200 available. I may mention that the university has also since 1930 been providing accommodation free of charge to the undertaking, and is still making its financial contribution.
5. 5. The appointment of a full-time editor-in-chief in the person of Dr. P. C. Schoonees, as well as editorial, administrative and technical staff, was proceeded to. In 1948 there were already ten full-time staff members, and statutory provision was made to the effect that they could become members of the Universities’ Benevolent Fund; and
6. 6. It was stipulated that the work should be disposed of within five years and that the publication could be effected in instalments.

By 1949, however, it was clear that the work would not be disposed of within five years, and that at the most it would be possible to complete one volume. This volume appeared on 7th May, 1951, dealing with the letters A, B and C. Since that time additional volumes, II to V, have appeared; and at present the Bureau is hard at work on Volume VI. which it is hoped will be completed within the next three years so that the letters up to K will then have been dealt with. Normally 10 000 copies of each volume are printed and bound in 4 000 leather and 6 000 cloth bindings. I have here in my desk an example of the dictionary in cloth binding. The hon. members will see that, in the words of my former professor at Stellenbosch, Prof. Smith, it is truly a bulky folio.

By the end of February, 1973, the cards on which words are recorded, totalled 2 411 000. The State’s financial contribution up to 31st March, 1972, had been R1 724 246-29. WAT is printed by the Government Printer in Pretoria, and copies may also be ordered there. In addition I am just mentioning that, since 1961, in order to promote the sale of WAT, a generous rebate of up to 45% has been granted to book sellers.

In 1962 Dr. F. J. Snijman, the present editor-in-chief, succeeded Dr. P. C. Schoonees, and at present he is being assisted by nine editorial members and six other staff members. I should like to pay tribute today to the persons and bodies who have taken pains to promote, and have also taken an active part in promoting, the interests of this undertaking. Many of them are no longer with us, but we and future generations as well will always be grateful to them and to those who took over the task from them. Allow me to point out that each one of the hon. members may also make a valuable and lasting contribution by sending words, especially dialectal words with their meanings and usage, to the editor-in-chief. These will always be welcome. If there should be any hon. members who are interested in paying a visit to the WAT Bureau to see for themselves what is being done and how it is being done, I shall gladly arrange for such a visit to be made possible.

I have referred several times to periods which were determined or instructions which were given for the completion of WAT. It is clear to me that we should preferably make no predictions. Regular progress reports are made, and I am convinced that the Bureau is working hard and doing thorough work. I should just like to refer to a few well-known dictionaries to prove that we have already made good progress. Firstly I want to refer to the dictionary of Webster. In approximately 1800 Noah Webster began to work in earnest on his first dictionary, The Compendious Dictionary (1806), which was followed in 1928 by An American Dictionary of the English Language. This dictionary has in the course of time been constantly brought up to date and reprinted. According to the introduction the latest reprint of 1961, Webster’s Third New National Dictionary of the English Language, has with all modern amenities, a quotation collection of 10 million, and an extensive, technically differentiated editorial staff, taken 757 editorial years to complete.

Secondly I want to mention the Woordeboek Der Nederlandsche Taal. As long ago as 1849, plans for this were being drawn up, which were put into effect a few years later, but the first volume only appeared in 1882. In 1922 the Dutch Government officially recognized the Commissie van Bijstand which, since 1887, had been responsible for its financing and administration, and the editors became public servants with the right to a pension, and the dictionary received a permanent basis on which the work could be continued without concern. For the sake of interest I should like to mention that from 1893 to the outbreak of the Anglo-Boer War the Zuid-Afrikaanse Republiek contributed R500 perannum to this undertaking. Work is still in progress on this dictionary at present.

Thirdly I want to mention the example of the Oxford English Dictionary. The first volume of this dictionary appeared in 1884, after work had commenced on it in the ’fifties. It was only completed in 1933. J.A.H. Murray, editor-in-chief from 1879 to 1915, once commented that his best assistant had struggled for six months with the one word “that”.

Since forecasts were frequently made in the past on when the work would or ought to be completed, it would in my opinion be closer to the truth to say that as long as there is an Afrikaans language, work will be in progress on WAT. For this reason as well it is necessary to regulate the undertaking in an orderly way, and give statutory recognition to it.

In considering the legislation, various possibilities were taken into account. Incorporation of WAT into the Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns or the Human Sciences Research Council was considered, as well as incorporation into the National Cultural Council in terms of the National Culture Promotion Act, Act No. 27 of 1969, or the declaration thereof in terms of the Cultural Institutions Act, Act 29 of 1969. I do not want to go into the merits of every possibility at this juncture. However, after giving the matter the fullest consideration it was decided to introduce no organizational change but to let it suffice, as I have already stated at the beginning of my speech, to give statutory recognition to what has for years now been administrative practice. The undertaking is functioning very well at present at the University of Stellenbosch, and therefore there is no good reason why an organizational change in or relocation of WAT should be necessary. In fact, such a change or relocation would place a considerable additional financial burden on the State. In the second place one cannot, with a single stroke of the pen, undo the historical tradition of this matter. The University has had a lion’s share in the establishment of the undertaking, is still making its annual cash contribution of R3 200, and is providing WAT with accommodation as provided in clause 2(2), read in conjunction with clause 1(i); in addition this accommodation is being made available free of charge. In the third place the Rector serves on the Board of Control as Administrator, in terms of clause 5(1)(b), and in terms of clause 8 he exercises all the powers of the Board of Control, subject to certain restrictions, between meetings of the Board. Apart from these considerations, the University offers the “Woordeboek” undertaking an academic context which is very conducive to the work because in virtually all fields professional assistance may be obtained from the teaching staff, and temporary office assistance from the students. This assistance is rendered at a remuneration which entails relatively little expenditure for the State.

The circumstance that a dictionary should be accommodated at the university, is nothing new. Die Woordeboek Der Nederlandsche Taal has close ties with the University of Leyden, and the Oxford English Dictionary with the University of Oxford.

Mr. Speaker, it has for many years now been the policy that the conditions of service of the WAT staff, as far as is practicable, should correspond to those of the University of Stellenbosch, but apart from this policy and apart from pension benefits, those staff members have very little to fall back on, and they enjoy no statutory protection. It was therefore felt that it was time the necessary provision was made, and with this in view you have this Bill before you today. A practical problem which similarly made such a step desirable, cropped up when the interest from an investment made by the late. Prof. T. H. le Roux accrued to WAT, and it was not possible to receive it because there was no juristic person. This contingency is now being provided for by means of clause 2(1), apart from the moneys for which this specific provision is being made in clause 12. I can only hope that more such bequests to the benefit of the “Woordeboek” undertaking will occur in future. In the third place it is necessary to protect the work being done by WAT against prosecution. Last year there were reports in the Press to the effect that a court order had been requested against the Oxford Dictionary on the usage of certain words, as well as against the former British Prime Minister, Mr. Harold Macmillan, as Chancellor of the University of Oxford. According to a report in the Nieuwe Rotterdamse Courant of 17th November, 1970 an action was brought against the Groot Nederlandse Woordeboek (Van Dale) in regard to certain words. Although the Bureau proceeds judiciously and responsibly when a word or expression is being considered for inclusion, it has been deemed necessary to insert clause 17.

In clause 5(1)(c) the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns is empowered to nominate persons with a view to the appointment of one person to the Board of Control. The Akademie has always displayed great interest in this undertaking and rendered valuable assistance, particularly in the field of spelling problems. The good co-operation of this body in the past is appreciated, and for that reason, as was the case under the administrative arrangement, this representation is being continued.

The present members of the board of control are: Dr. J. T. van Wyk—chairman (Secretary for National Education); Prof. J. N. de Villiers—administrator (Rector: University of Stellenbosch); Prof. H. B. Thom—member; Prof. G. P. J. Trümpelmann—member; Dr. S. H. Pellissier—member, and Prof. W. Kempen—member (Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns). The conditions of service, such as salary scales, salaries, leave, etc., of the present staff members, are being guaranteed in clause 10. The privilege of receiving a housing subsidy or of contributing to a medical aid fund are provided for in clause 10(4).

Die Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal will in future, as in the past, appear as a Government publication, and copyright shall, in terms of clause 15, continue to be vested in the State.

The remainder of the Bill is self-explanatory, and in my opinion requires no further elucidation.

Let me say right at the outset that the Second Reading of this Bill will receive the full support of this side of the House. We will in fact make certain observations in regard to it during the Committee Stage, but those will come later.

Sir, I think that the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is one of the greatest attempts, if not the greatest, to give recognition to our Afrikaans language, one of our official languages in South Africa, in our cultural and our common history in South Africa. The only reason for my not saying that this is in fact the greatest attempt in this connection is because the translation of the Bible into Afrikaans is possibly the greatest attempt in this regard, but the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is certainly one of the most outstanding steps forward in the promotion of the Afrikaans language here in South Africa. If one goes back over the years, one is amazed to see how this language, which took root so many years ago on a very small scale in South Africa, has grown. Today we have the Bible in Afrikaans. Some of the greatest works in medical science, in law and in engineering have been translated into the Afrikaans language. Even works on highly technical subjects are today available at our universities in the Afrikaans language. For that reason it is of course necessary that we should have a good standard work such as our Afrikaanse Woordeboek, which was commenced with so much zeal in the past and is being proceeded with today with as much zeal. Then, too, I think of other technical dictionaries which are also available today. I think of Prof. Du Toit Malherbe’s technical dictionary, where excellent pioneering work has been done; I think of the Post Office technical dictionary, which is an excellent one but in regard to which I do have one minor objection which I will probably have until the day I die, and that is to the term which is used in that dictionary for a telephone booth, namely “oproepkantoor-spreeksel”. “Oproepkantoorspreeksel” is not the translation for an ordinary, everyday telephone booth. Perhaps my hon. friend, the member for Carletonville, could provide the Post Office with a better translation, but we are never going to use that big word.

Just send a card along to the editor of the dictionary.

Yes, I think I should do so. Sir, there are many bodies that have contributed their share to the progress which has been made with the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, and in the same spirit in which the hon. member for Brits spoke today, I also want to pay tribute to those bodies. The University of Stellenbosch has done pioneering work and has played an exceptionally constructive part in our Afrikaanse Woordeboek. The Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie and the Nasionale Pers should also be mentioned, regardless of what the Nasionale Pers thinks of me, for they also played a part here. I think we should pay tribute to Prof. J. J. Smith, that great pioneer of our South African books, and to Dr. Anna Smit who is today chief librarian of the municipal library in Johannesburg and who is just as fond of the language and the treasures of librarianship as he is, as well as to Prof. Dr. Wilcocks, Prof. Schoonees and Dr. Snyman, the present editor. They did their work quietly. They did good work, and it is a difficult task to compile a library. I always feel that for South Africa the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is not only a dictionary for the Afrikaner people, for the one section, but that it is a dictionary for all of us in South Africa, all of us who call ourselves South Africans and who have the greatest respect in our hearts and souls for both languages. It is a long history, this history of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, and the hon. Minister sketched it to us in an excellent way. But you know, Sir, my favourite dictionary in Afrikaans is this one, which will never be officially recognized. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that you will allow me to quote Langenhoven, for I understand that it is permissible these days. I am quoting from Langenhoven’s Aan Stille Waters, his article on the Afrikaanse Woordeboek. In that article he compiled the first dictionary in Afrikaans, with the first few words in it. Langenhoven began like this, under the title “Die Suid-Afrikaanse Woordeboek” and said (translation)—

And then he gives a great many entertaining definitions. Of course I cannot read them all. I can only select one. In his foreword, he had this to say (translation)—

Then he goes on to define a few words under A. I have selected one, namely “aum” (translation)—

That is typical of Langenhoven’s humour. Of course lexicography is a technical and intensive study in the science of languages, and we have seen how it has grown in all the countries of Western civilization. The first of the languages of the Western world which actually assumed its modem form in the days of Dante, was the Italian dictionary, and it is interesting to see how little Italian has changed between the days of Dante and the present. That dictionary which was commenced in 1612, still forms the basis of the Italian dictionaries today. We think of Larousse, the French dictionary, which subsequently became what was practically an encyclopaedia. We think of the Winkler Prins dictionary, and particularly the Oxford English Dictionary, the history of which the hon. the Minister recounted. The first volume of that dictionary appeared in 1884.

You must abandon Post Office matters; you are far better in the field of language.

You are absolutely brilliant today.

The name of Sir John Murray is inseparably linked to this dictionary. The English language has a wonderful history. Its origins, just as those of Afrikaans, lie in the Anglo-Saxon language. After the Norman Conquest excellent and important additions from the French language were incorporated into it. Chaucer helped to combine the two, and before that time the Anglo-Saxon language had already been altered and improved. Then the greater writers of the English language appeared on the scene. I am referring here to Milton and Shakespeare. I find it interesting to see how the English language has acquired its greatness by not being afraid to borrow from other languages and form a synthesis. Perhaps a synthesis of a language may one day develop in South Africa, but I am in complete agreement with the view of my friends who say that we should guard against Anglicisms or other foreign intrusions entering our language too extensively! On the other hand, however, we must not be afraid to take over good words from English, German or French in our Afrikaans language at times.

You are therefore not an inordinate purist

No, I am not an inordinate purist. I agree with the hon. member.

To my mind English is the world’s greatest language; to me Afrikaans is the language I love the most. [Interjections.] Afrikaans is the language which I spoke to my parents, which I speak at home. It can be appreciated that Afrikaans is a precious feature of our culture in the hearts of hon. members on that side and in the hearts of hon. members on this side. I say that to my mind English is the greatest language; Afrikaans is the language I love the most. I believe that this also applies to all those who believe that one can be a South African without having to sacrifice one’s Afrikaans identity.

I have perused the Bill. It seems to me as though the hon. the Minister’s explanation of it was completely acceptable. Logically it is a good thing that we should now have a Bureau of the “Woordeboek”. In essence this Bureau of the “Woordeboek” does not differ from the previous board which we had. The former rector of the University of Stellenbosch also served on that board, and so, too, did the Secretary for National Education. I think this is a logical recognition, which became necessary.

As I have said, there are a few matters which we should like to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister during the Committee Stage. I think this will be particularly true in regard to clause 17, which he also mentioned, and in regard to which there may perhaps be an inconsistency in regard to the requirements of the scientific definitions on the one hand and, on the other, definitions which are sometimes unfair, which have over the centuries become obsolete and perhaps no longer have any place in modern life. I do not now wish to specify any such definitions; perhaps we could do so during the Committee Stage. I just want to mention that what I mean here are in fact racial definitions, and for example the definitions, into English, “Boereknapie”, “Jew” etc. One would do well to give thought to this matter, particularly in view of our South African situation.

I saw that the hon. the Minister intends moving a certain amendment during the Committee Stage. I see no reason why we should object to it, but we will of course have to investigate the matter a little further.

I have sketched the history of the Oxford Dictionary. The hon. the Minister sketched the history of our Afrikaanse Woordeboek. I hope there will be no objections due to the fact that it is taking such a long time, for it does take a long time to bring out a good dictionary; it takes many years. Experience in other countries indicates that this is in fact the case. I hope, too, that there will be no objection to justified costs which will have to be incurred in this connection. I want to point out that the costs which have thus far been incurred are in no way unjustified. It must be borne in mind that major costs will have to be incurred in order to publish such a vast, fundamental work. This is virtually the first work in the newest language of Western civilization. If I may express a little criticism, it is that as far as I can deduce, when the new reprints of the first volumes of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek appear, they are reprinted practically 99% as they were compiled 10, 15 or more years ago. Is it not possible, when reprints are made, to include the latest words? My hon. friend must not tell me now that I am talking politics, but I still recall that years ago, when the first edition appeared, I looked up the word “apartheid”, and it did not even appear in the dictionary! A thing like that should really not happen. We will really have to look after this aspect as well. There are many new words which are created on that side, and on our side as well, I’ll have you know. I do not think the word “race federation” is in the dictionary. But we will see to it that it is included. [Interjections.] Really? We are making progress, Sir.

The National Party is capable of creating everything which is new.

Very well, we can argue that point later. Our language, Afrikaans, one of our languages in South Africa, has a wonderful history. I think of the struggle which had to be waged during the First and Second Language Movements to gain recognition for it. And do not think the struggle was against English alone. It was also for the most part, against Dutch, against people who wanted to retain the old Dutch as a language, and did not realize how this new language had been rooted in the hearts of the people and transmitted in common parlance.

I am pleased that we are going to have a language monument in Paarl. I am even more pleased to hear that, although there will be a few minor changes, there is not going to be any basic changes, for we must remember that some of the other race groups in our country have also contributed their share to the formation and the vocabulary of the Afrikaans language.

Oh please, very little.

I do not want to quarrel with the hon. member about this. Oh, it is the hon. member for Waterberg … Very well. I am not being in any way derogatory. I wonder whether the hon. member knows that he will not be able to read the first book which was ever written in Afrikaans. He will not know what it contains. I recall that it appeared in one of the quarterly publications of the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie, which came out many, years ago. In that publication the first document in Afrikaans appeared. It was in the Arabic alphabet, from right to left. I cannot read it, nor can the hon. member. It was Afrikaans, and not Dutch, written in Arabic, the old Malay handwriting here in South Africa. As a person who has quite a good deal to do with the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie, he would do well to look it up. But it is no disgrace. Subsequently Prof. Du Toit and the other writers, Jan F. Cilliers and A. G. Visser, developed the language. I am merely mentioning this to indicate that our non-White peoples in South Africa also played a part in the development of the Afrikaans language.

I think that we in South Africa feel that Afrikaans is really something which is unique to us. But there are persons, with whom I do not really agree, who say that Afrikaans has developed so far in the series of Indo-European languages that it is in certain respects, as far as the grammar is concerned for example, among the most highly developed languages in the West. The person I want to quote here is, interestingly enough, Prof. Theo Haarhoff. Prof. Haarhoff, just like Prof. Jan Hofmeyr, was a great liberal, but also a good Afrikaner. Years ago Prof. Haarhoff gave lectures in Oxford in which he stated his standpoint—I now want to recount this piece of history—that Afrikaans, after Esperanto, even had a chance of becoming a world language. Of course this will never be accepted. We know why, and I do not want to go into the reasons. He mentioned points such as the use of the past tense for example. In Afrikaans we simply say “Ek het gewerk”. In German, Dutch and in other languages there are three or four different forms. If I use the expression “Ek het gewerk”, no one can tell me that he does not understand. Whether it is the ordinary past tense, the pluperfect tense, the imperfect tense or whatever other tense is meant, we have only the one form for it. But there are other things in Afrikaans which appear to be a little unnecessary, such as the double negative which we should not have in Afrikaans. But it is interesting, and for that reason I am mentioning this piece of history in connection with Prof. Haarhoff. In those days I was working for another publication, and I was writing in that vein, and praised Prof. Haarhoff. Then a liberal publication of which I think he was the editor, by the name of Forum, made a tremendous attack on me concerning those words I had written about Afrikaans. A month later Prof. Haarhoff resigned as editor of Forum, and one of the reasons for that was because this left-wing liberal publication made that attack on the Afrikaans language.

I want to conclude by saying that this Bill is a good one, and I want the country to know that we in the United Party and all the responsible parties in South Africa advocate the promotion of both our official languages in South Africa. There is something which is developing in South Africa, and they call it “South African English”. It is like Australian English, or American English, something which is growing. I recall how Prof. Matthew at the University of Cape Town told us that he had made a major study of this language, and that such a language would develop in South Africa. Perhaps a time will come when there will have to be a special dictionary and a special vocabulary for our South African English, just as the American language has developed on its own. I want us in this case to sympathise and support a great cultural development and the further cultural expansion of the Afrikaans language, which is a language of South Africans as much as English. One thinks in conclusion that if one could ever speak of a language of Africa, not of the West but of Africa, a language which was born here in Africa, grew and developed, then Afrikaans has the right to call itself a language of Africa as well. Let it, together with the English language, be the two languages with which we will show the rest of Africa that we not only have ties with overseas countries and the West, but that we also have ties with Africa and that we can use them as a medium to strengthen the position of our country in the rest of Africa, and can indicate to them that we mean well with the rest of the continent on which we are living today.

Mr. Speaker, it is, in actual fact, the first time a Bill is being handled by the hon. the Minister of National Education since the hon. member for Wynberg, with or without a pension, retired as the Opposition’s shadow minister. We were quite curious to see on whom this shadow cloak would fall …

Not on me. Andrew Pyper is not here today.

Then I shall just leave it at that.

“You can’t keep a good woman down.” [Interjections.]

I shall also just leave the remark of the hon. member for Carletonville at that, and I would rather not comment on it. The hon. member for Orange Grove was apparently constrained to speak on this Bill. Initially he had a few attention-getting ideas that were quite good. He broached matters that I agree with. He paid tribute, inter alia, to various persons and bodies that had made a great contribution in connection with the dictionary up to its present stage of development. Although I have not liked to do so in the past, in this case I want to associate myself with what the hon. member said.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member made a remark here that I really cannot understand. He said something about Arabic, which in some way or other is supposed to have exerted an influence on Afrikaans —even if it is as far as the way of writing it is concerned. This is the first time I have heard about that. I studied the origins of the Afrikaans language under a very famous professor, prof. S. P. E. Bosholf, and I have never heard of that. That is the first time I have heard that. He also remarked, inter alia, that he regarded the double negative (the double “nie”) as superfluous in Afrikaans. As far as I know the double “nie” in Afrikaans is one of the legacies from the French language. The French say “ne … pas”.

It comes from German.

The hon. member may know better in that connection. She may have studied something else in connection with the origin of the double “nie”, but that is the point my studies reached.

As an Afrikaans speaking person and one who has a special love for my language—I was glad to hear that the hon. member for Orange Grove also put it in those terms, and I accept it as such—as someone who, like the over-all majority of Afrikaans speaking people, tries to use Afrikaans and speak it correctly to the best of my ability, and also as an ex-teacher of Afrikaans who made a great deal of use of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, but also as a person who still regards the dictionary as an extremely important source of information and research in Afrikaans, I am particularly happy about this Bill.

A very important principle in this Bill is stated in clause 2, i.e. to give corporate existence to the whole framework of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek. This now ensures indemnity against any legal steps that might be taken against the board of control. The corporate existence of the board of control is hereby being established beyond all doubt. It is fitting and also essential for prove the compilation of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek to have a firm basis, and this is specifically being provided here.

Another very important principle is contained in clause 3. The object of the bureau, as it is stated here, is to continue, to complete and from time to time to improve the compilation of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek; i.e. to supplement it after the initial task of compilation already appears to have been completed. I also find this clause very important and essential. In my opinion, the task of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek ought to be to lay down current usage by systematically and alphabetically arranging words in current usage in the dictionary and analysing and explaining the meanings.

How does one lay down a living language?

I shall be coming to what the hon. member has just mentioned there. The dictionary must also include the words used decades ago, which were connected, inter alia, with articles in daily use but which have fallen into disuse because relevant articles have also fallen into disuse. These words have a cultural-historic value and can then be called to mind by consulting the dictionary. Let me mention a few simple examples of such words. The generation growing up today no longer knows the meaning of “trens”, “teerputs”, “langwa”, “buikplank”, “veiling”, “naaf”, “remskoen”, etc. These are all parts of the ox-wagon or the buck-wagon. The oxwagon has disappeared as a means of transport, and with it has also disappeared from our present-day spoken language the use of the names of its parts. Fortunately there are idioms connected with the oxwagon, originating in the glorious epoch of the ox-wagon, which have been retained.

A word can never become too archaic or outdated to be included in a dictionary. Dr. John Muir, a doctor from the Riversdale district in the twenties, learned Afrikaans after he had moved here from Scotland. He drew up, inter alia, complete lists of the common names of plants in his district. He then also described them scientifically. He also pointed out the cultural-historic value of words and names, putting it in these terms (translation)—

I just want to mention that the same Dr. John Muir also collected the Afrikaans names of shells and birds. He also collected popular words and expressions relating to diseases, historical terms and terms used in the administration of justice.

Was he a qualified doctor when he came to South Africa?

Yes. He was of Scottish descent and learned Afrikaans here. He carried out this exceptional task, and some of those words and those names are contained in the present Afrikaanse Woordeboek.

We know that the Afrikaans vocabulary is built up—and now I should like the hon. member for Orange Grove to listen—of inherited aspects, borrowed aspects and inherent aspects. The inherited aspects are those words and expressions chiefly inherited from the Dutch language of the 17th and 18th Centuries and which have been preserved in Afrikaans. Many of those words have already become archaisms in our language. I have already referred to them. The borrowed aspects are those words which were taken over from new and foreign languages that our forefathers came into contact with. Many of these words are already so old and so established in Afrikaans that we can no longer recognize them as borrowed words. Today we are still borrowing words from various languages. As far as that is concerned, the language is therefore not static. The inherent elements are those words and expressions which Afrikaans itself created, and a very large portion of the Afrikaans vocabulary consists of inherent elements. Although many of the inherent elements in Afrikaans are already old as well, new words are continually being created.

Afrikaans is a young, vital and dynamic language that is still growing. This is now the answer to the question the hon. member for Yeoville put to me a while ago. The language takes over usable borrowed words and material from other languages. It also creates new words or inherent elements to keep pace with technological and scientific developments, as well as development in other spheres. The task of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is then to react like a barometer and to record these words. For that reason its function is being extended, i.e. to continue, to complete and from time to time to improve the compilation of the dictionary. The compiler’s task is a demanding one, but at the same time an interesting, fascinating and compensatory one. Mark Twain, the well-known English writer, said on occasion …

American.

Correct. Mark Twain, the American writer, said on occasion: “A dictionary is the most awe-inspiring of all books; it knows so much.” This is specifically where the fascination and the usefulness of a dictionary lies. The usefulness of the dictionary lies in the fact that it opens up an understanding of words, or as the Dutch writer, P. van Woensel, remarked as far back as 1790, because a dictionary (translation) “is the key that gives access to the sciences”. Sir, dictionaries have a fascination because they are full of the romance of words. In this connection Ivor Brown expressed himself as follows—

He wrote that in “A Word in your Ear”, published in 1944.

Because dictionaries have a usefulness and a fascination, because they are handy reference works, because so much is expected of them, it is, indeed, also comprehensible that they can only come into existence slowly and with deliberation. We expect from them accuracy, thoroughness comprehensiveness and impartiality. The compiler of a dictionary cannot simply express preferences and disapproval when it comes to defining words. Such high demands of reliability and objectivity are placed upon the modern compiler of a dictionary —thus also upon the compilers of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek—that it could take dozens of years and more to complete this.

The well-known Flemish poet, Guido Gezelle, put it this way round about the middle of the previous century (translation)—

As is already known, a start was made on this Afrikaanse Woordeboek in 1926. The undertaking is therefore closely coupled with the recognition of Afrikaans, together with English, as an official language. The vocabulary of the young language had to be recorded in the dictionary so that the users of that language could learn to know it better, could learn to spell the words and could also learn to handle or use the language better subject to the great demands placed upon it alongside English as an official and cultural language. English has always been a big and powerful international language which played a dominant role in our history for a long time. Afrikaans began to maintain itself strongly against English, and the Afrikaanse Woordeboek would have been a great help as far as that was concerned.

At that stage, i.e. about 1926, Afrikaans was rustic language with the simplicity, the artlessness and the directness of, inter alia, the hunter, the farmer and the fisherman, a language which emanated from and became a part of the South African soil. But no one knew exactly what the extent of its vocabulary was and what it was capable of at the various levels of usage. Therefore, vocabulary first had to be recorded for this purpose, of course. And that is what Prof. J. J. Smith did upon acceptance of the task. He established that vocabulary in a dictionary. How he set to work is explained in the introduction to Part I of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek. It is remarkable how much help was also received from the Afrikaans newspapers and magazines, and from Afrikaans and even English speaking countrymen. Sir, the cultural value of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek must be emphasized. The dictionary does not only have a cultural value for the Afrikaner, but also for others who want to come into contact with Afrikaans culture by means of Afrikaans words and expressions. The gathering of language material is still continuing. Prof. Smith’s collection of about 230 000 cards has been increased to about 2½ million, and it is truly a unique collection of Afrikaans word material that has been built up throughout the years through the labours of interested parties, both amateurs and scholars. Every language lover can, Sir, contribute further to this already wonderful collection and therefore I want to link up with what the Minister said in his Second Reading speech, i.e. that there are perhaps still many words that are used in various regions, words that are still known only to our older people which can simply be written down on a card and sent to the Bureau of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek. We know that they would greatly appreciate it.

I want to conclude by saying that we very sincerely want to thank the present editor-in-chief, Dr. F. J. Snyman, and the Bureau of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek for their dedicated and tireless labours on this great task, a task and a service being furnished to the Afrikaans language, and thereby to the whole of South Africa, and not only to the Afrikaans speaking, but also to the English speaking people. This dictionary will also be at the service of the generations to come, far into the distant future. That is why I want to wish them the best of luck and every success with this very greatest of tasks they are undertaking.

Mr. Speaker, as an Afrikaans-speaking person on this side of the House, it is my pleasure and privilege to join the hon. member for Orange Grove in supporting the hon. the Minister with this legislation. Sir, we know of the hon. member for Koedoespoort’s knowledge of the Afrikaans language and of his knowledge of Afrikaans history, but it has nevertheless been proved here today once again that one is never too old to learn, because it seems to me as if the hon. member for Koedoespoort has today learnt something from the hon. member for Orange Grove about the Arabic influence on the Afrikaans language. Sir, what I cannot quite understand is that the hon. member for Koedoespoort has to keep himself from expressing surprise at the fact that the hon. member for Orange Grove also loves the Afrikaans language. This legislation does not only have a bearing on the Afrikaner; it also relates to the English-speaking people in South Africa. It does not only relate to members on that side of the House, but also to members of this side of the House, and for me, as a member of the Afrikaner community, as a member of the Afrikaans Church and as a person who comes from an Afrikaans home with Afrikaans as my home language, it is a privilege to see that steps are being taken along these lines. The mere fact that I am sitting on this side of the House, surely does not mean that I do not love the Afrikaans language.

The hon. member for Koedoespoort spoke of words connected with the oxwagon. He was worried about those words going out of use, and I was worried that he originally perhaps thought of suggesting that those words should not be used, because the word “remskoen” as you know, Sir—to mention but one example—is such a nice word to use in politics when we are criticizing hon. members on that side of the House. Sir, the history of the board dealing with the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, has come a very long way hand in hand with the Afrikaans language. In fact, it originates with the very beginnings of the Afrikaans language, as far back as 1920 when there was speculation about the establishment of such a board. In 1925, as we know, drastic steps were taken and the board was established that very year. Although the progress appears to be very slow, one must realize that Afrikaans only came into being a brief while ago. The fact that the people involved in the compilation of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, have now only reached the letter “K”, proves what a massive task they have taken upon themselves. I believe it has become essential for this statutory body to be established now in respect of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, and we on this side of the House most certainly welcome it. We know that Afrikaans is a young language, and we know that in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa it is provided that Afrikaans together with English, or English together with Afrikaans, should be the official languages of South Africa, that they should be treated on an equal footing and that they have and possess equal freedoms, rights and privileges; that all documents, reports and proceedings of this hon. House and of the provincial councils should be compiled in both languages.

One cannot actually compare Afrikaans with English at all, The English language is almost as old as civilization, and Afrikaans is only in its initial stage. Afrikaans only started off a few decades ago, and although the foundations of the Afrikaans language have very firmly been laid, this language is growing and changing daily. The vocabulary is expanding and it will probably continue to do so for many centuries to come. But the establishment of this statutory body will be able to give a great deal of assistance, guidance and attention as far as this is concerned. The Afrikaans language, as we all know, is a holy shrine as far as the Afrikaner is concerned, and is very firmly bound up with his cultural assets. The Afrikaans language is a principle of identity as far as the Afrikaner is concerned, and he is very insistent that his language will play an important role as far as his identity is concerned.

What will the language of the federation be?

The hon. member for Rissik is now asking me ridiculous questions, but one knows they are actually jealous. They do not want hon. members on this side of the House to express our sentiments about a language that is as dear to our hearts. I do not believe that Afrikaans is a language for only a certain section in South Africa; it is a language for the whole of South Africa. We know that the Afrikaans language even contributes to the vocabulary of the English-speaking people in South Africa. How many times does one not hear even English-speaking people saying “ja-nee”. You know, if two people are sitting and drinking coffee, and they do not know what to speak about anymore, having exhausted what they had to say about what the weather is like and when it is going to rain again, the one simply says “ja-nee”. One also finds this expression taken up in the English language today. You know, Sir, it is illuminating that General Hertzog, who was the first leader of this side of the House, of the United Party …

Was he?

Yes, he was the first leader of the United Party. He said at one stage—

That is why I believe that the Afrikaans language is as much a part of the English community as of the Afrikaans community here in South Africa. The establishment of this statutory body entails that every Afrikaner in South Africa shall have the certainty that his language and the extension of his language will not only be laid down in the Constitution but will also be placed in the lawful hands of a statutory body. I know it is a long time. I was not born so very long ago, and at that stage the present volume of work was already half finished, but I remember that as a pupil of an Afrikaans high school I also contributed to this language. We received instructions to collect, in our immediate vicinity and in school, words with their meanings, and to also fill in these cards and send them to the dictionary. But one must be reminded from time to time that such a movement does exist. I think the hon. the Minister made a very good point when he told us today in this House that when a word comes to mind, which we think is perhaps not used any longer, or which is not generally known, we should write it on a card and send it to this bureau.

It is privileged for one to pay tribute to people, many of whom are no longer living today, but who laid the foundations of this great work. It is a tremendous task they took upon themselves. Many of the words originally collected are probably no longer in use today, as the hon. member for Koedoespoort said, but so Afrikaans will grow. Many people helped to build up this language. We think of the Langenhovens, the N. P. van Wyk Louws, and even today there are the writers of the sixties, whom I know many people do not like very much, but I think, nevertheless, looking at their work, that the writers of the sixties have brought a new dimension to the Afrikaans language and have given it life. We think of the André Brinks, the Breyten Breytenbachs. We think of people like Breyten Breytenbach, who does not live in South Africa today, but spends virtually his whole life abroad and nevertheless makes a contribution to the Afrikaans language. We must also largely pay tribute to those people.

And Adam Small.

Yes, of course, also Adam Small who is a member of the Coloured people of South Africa.

There is something I am worried about; well, not actually worried, but the hon. member for Orange Grove referred to it. It concerns clause 17 and the question of the non-liability in respect of publication in the dictionary. Here one can issue a word of warning in the light of the circumstances in South Africa, in the light of the fact that we do not have a homogeneous community but a heterogeneous one, that we have various languages, faiths and races in this country. With that in mind one is almost afraid that one may have provisions in an act that could perhaps be dangerous for us. In the Oxford Dictionary I looked at the definitions of a few words. I was thinking, inter alia, of the Jewish community. In the Oxford Dictionary the word “Jew” is referred to as being—

That is what one must warn against so that this type of definition will not be repeated in our dictionary. There is also a further reference to the word “Jew”—

One must not let this kind of definition get through. We have a Government that believes in nationalism. “Nationalism” is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as follows, inter alia—

That is true.

These are aspects one wants to warn against, and I do think the hon. the Minister will have to give attention to this before we reach the Committee Stage.

I want to conclude by saying that Afrikaans is a language that is close to my heart. It is the language I use every day; in fact, it is the language I have been using in the House since I came here. I find it very amusing that there are hon. members on that side—it looks to me as if it is the hon. member for Rissik and the hon. member for Waterkloof—who are almost jealous of the fact that members on this side of the House use Afrikaans. Hon. members must remember, however, that the original leader of the mother party of this party, General Louis Botha, never made a speech in English, as far as my knowledge goes. He made his speeches in Dutch, which is the forerunner of the Afrikaans language. The wife of my leader, Sir de Villiers Graaff, is a lady with a M.A. degree in Afrikaans. And so there are good Afrikaners sitting on this side of the House and on that side of the House, and I want to say that we are all glad that this statutory body is being called into being.

Mr. Speaker, I think it was David in the Bible who said: “How good it is for brethren to dwell together.” I appreciate the fact that we can speak today in so brotherly a fashion about this great matter in our language and culture. I must tell the hon. member for Turffontein, nevertheless, that it is not altogether our fault if one is sometimes surprised when these fine things come from the other side. I think it was perhaps the fault of hon. members on the other side that we have gained the impression in the past that they are perhaps anti-Afrikaans. But we do not want to go into that matter now, appreciating as we do their support of this Bill. We appreciate the fine things they have said about our language, because they are also citizens of the people using this language.

In three years’ time, i.e. on 1st January, 1976, the Afrikaanse Woordeboek celebrates its 50th birthday. The task that was begun 47 years ago, on 1st January, 1926, virtually as a private undertaking by the late Prof. J. J. Smith and Nasionale Pers, has since then expanded tremendously, so that today it is an expensive and extremely valuable undertaking of national scope. As the hon. the Minister has said, the historical development of the past 47 years is now gaining the necessary legal substance with this Bill, i.e. in making the Bureau of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal a corporate body. It is necessary for this legal status to be obtained.

I can understand the problems of the hon. member for Turffontein, i.e. that he is afraid that we may add certain definitions in connection with certain population groups, because the hon. member’s leader in the Transvaal may perhaps have problems as far as that is concerned. But, Sir, it is essential that the Dictionary and its control body be protected against law suits. These matters must be seen objectively and be done correctly, and the possibility of a law suit cannot always be borne in mind.

Over the past year the Bureau has received extremely valuable gifts in the form of money, and particularly books, and it must be invested with the necessary authority to deal with the organization of that. In that connection I should like to refer to the fact that the widow of the late Dr. P. C. Schonees, a previous editor-in-chief, donated to the Bureau 131 books and 86 magazines from Dr. Schoonees’s valuable library. This is a very magnanimous example and one worthy of being followed. And Mr. M. van Blerk, an ex-member of the editorial staff, donated 173 of his books upon retirement, books that are very difficult to obtain at present and which are very frequently used by the staff. Another very valuable donation is the J. J. Smith memorial collection, which was donated by Mr. Van Blerk, with the approval of the widow of Prof. Smith. Prof. Le Roux also bequeathed an annual amount and a number of dictionaries to the Dictionary.

Many of our people probably possess valuable Afrikaans books, some of which are Africana, because the simple fact is that our older generation has a tremendous love for books and does not easily sell them, give them away or destroy them. In our children and the younger generation that love for those books is frequently absent. The danger exists that those valuable works, standing on our bookshelves, will simply land on the rubbish heap eventually. Therefore it is a very good idea to bequeath these libraries to an organization like the Bureau of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal, which can then sort out and use the necessary books which would prove of value to them.

Sir, clause 12 of the Bill makes provision for the financing of the Bureau. If one looks at the Estimate of Expenditure from the Revenue Account, which has been tabled by the hon. the Minister of Finance, one notices that the Government makes a very large amount of money available annually for the working of the Bureau. For the financial year 1972-73 an amount of R162 000 was made available. For the financial year 1973-74 the amount is being increased by almost 26% to R202 600. This striking increase in the amount now being budgeted for the functions of the Bureau, must be very greatly appreciated, and the relevant Minister and the Minister of Finance and the Government certainly deserve thanks for having made available this large amount for a very important matter as far as the Afrikaans language and culture are concerned.

I also want to pay tribute to the University of Stellenbosch for having accommodated this Bureau for many years. As the work grew and heavier demands were made on accommodation, this university was always prepared to provide the accommodation. They also make a financial contribution, and in the year 1945-’46, when the then Government did not give the annual donation for that year, the University of Stellenbosch had to carry the full financial responsibility. Although we are blessed with very good Afrikaans universities, for which we are very grateful and which we are very proud of, the University of Stellenbosch is actually, as far as we older people are concerned, the cradle of the Afrikaans language, Afrikaans culture and Afrikaans nationhood. On this gigantic task, which the University also carries out in respect of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, that institution deserves our utmost thanks and appreciation.

The functions of the dictionary have expanded greatly in recent years with the technological explosion of our century. This entails myriads of new words and terms virtually having to be found daily for new concepts and new things that crop up. Every month the dictionary receives about 12 000 cards from co-workers, and the total number of words amounts to 2½ million, as the hon. the Minister has already said. The dictionary draws its material from all spheres of modern society, from modern science, from technics and industry. With the help of experts in all spheres, these terms are defined and edited.

But the dictionary also draws its material from all the points of the compass and from every corner of our country, from all sections and layers of the population and from all periods of our history. Thus, for example, the word “pêrerunnik” was received from Kuruman. I wonder whether hon. members in this House know what a “pêrerunnik” is. I will not be school-masterish now and say that those who know should put up their hands, but I do wonder, nevertheless, how many hands would go up. Inquiries were subsequently made and the people from Kuruman then sent a “pêrerunnik” to the dictionary. It is a largish kind of wheat cricket (Eugaster longpipes) which was subsequently identified by Dr. Hesse of the South African Museum.

The names of things that become obsolete and are no longer in everyday use, are also still being added, particularly adiomatic expressions. We have, for example, the word “stang”, the word “buikgord” and many of our young people no longer know what these mean. But if one says “Hy ry hom stang in die bek” or “Jy moet jou buikgord vastrek”, we have the idiomatic expressions and they remain a part of our language. So, too, few of our people perhaps know that a “tuig” also has a “broek”, a meaning that has perhaps lapsed. When one says in idiomatic speech “hulle sit in the broek”, we know what it means, i.e. that they are not doing their best and the strings are not taut. So one could continue to quote examples from our use of language where these older words, which are falling into disuse, are again being brought into idiomatic language. Thus the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is bringing together a wealth of expressions in one great treasure chest. Terms from the exact and semi-exact sciences, from the human sciences, from trades and industries, from the dialects and from cant are all being recorded and processed by the dictionary. Actually the functions of the dictionary are very much like those of a factory, a language factory which receives the words, collects them, orders them, describes them, identifies them, indicates their sources, indicates their use, and then publishes them in the dictionary. Once the word or idiom has been published in the dictionary, it is like a new brick that has now been cemented into our language building and can be used. It is consequently a new instrument that becomes the bearer of our thinking and our thoughts, and which can be of service to us in thinking more logically and expressing ourselves more subtly.

The staff of the dictionary has continued to expand throughout the years as the scope of the work has increased. Today there is an editor-in-chief in the person of Dr. F. J. Snyman, and like the majority distinguished people in the country he was also born in the Eastern Cape [Interjections.] I am glad the hon. the Minister agrees with me. Dr. Snyman has been involved with the dictionary for 25 years. Then there is the assistant editor-in-chief in the person of Mr. D. C. Hauptfleisch, who for the first eight years of his professional life was employed by the House of Assembly as a translator. A few of the older members will perhaps still remember him. Apart from these two, there are eight co-editors, which brings the number of editors to 10. These people are all properly trained and well qualified linguists who are doing a tremendously big job for our country. Apart from these, there are also a number of typists and technical members of the staff. These people are dedicated to their job. They are like hawks, continually in search of new words and expressions, new terms, which they bring into our language and fix there. Their work is methodical and scientifically presented, and has come a long way from that day, 47 years ago, when the late Prof. Smith began this gigantic task.

I should like, on this occasion, to pay tribute to this pioneer who has, since 1913, been directing his efforts at the compilation of an Afrikaanse Woordeboek, to this man who had the vision and the perseverance to begin, virtually alone, on so monumental a work. Together with Nasionale Pers he actually carried the responsibility for only three-months, because as a result of the decision of the Select Committee in 1925 an agreement or contract was concluded on 25th March, 1926, between Nasionale Pers and the then Minister of Education, Dr. D. F. Malan, whereby the earlier agreement between Prof. Smith, Nasionale Pers and the University of Stellenbosch for compiling the dictionary with State assistance came into force.

Apart from this person, I also want to pay tribute to two bodies which together, virtually hand in hand, tirelessly contributed to the development of the Afrikaans language and Afrikaans culture, and without whose assistance and support the Afrikaanse Woordeboek would never have assumed the monumental proportions it already has at this stage. These two bodies are Nationale Pers and the National Party. Hon. members may laugh, but the facts of history have indisputably been proved, and on this occasion I should like to pay the necessary tribute to these two bodies.

Fifty years ago Langenhoven described the Afrikaans language as (translation)—

I am glad to agree in this connection with my friend, the hon. member for Orange Grove, that the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is indeed an instrument that binds us together, even the two sides of the House, both experiencing this soul of our people and our language revealed. Since it is the only language that was formed here, as Langenhoven said, I also want to agree with this hon. member for Orange Grove that it can be carried further in Africa. It is for this language that this Bill is giving legal force to this dictionary, and it is for this language that this dictionary is being compiled in order to be used. Therefore I should like to support this Bill.

Mr. Speaker, we did not expect the Bill to be dealt with today. For that reason I just want to say a few words on this matter. The hon. member who has just resumed his seat referred, inter alia, to the part played by the National Party in the history of the Afrikaans language. No one will deny that the National Party has also played a part. However, tribute cannot be paid to the development of the Afrikaans language, the “Woordeboek” and the S.A. Akademie without mentioning the name of the one outstanding person. That is the name of Gen. J. B. M. Hertzog. Gen. Hertzog was the person who played the most important part in respect of the birth of this Afrikaanse Woordeboek. And hon. members must bear in mind that Gen. Hertzog was not only the leader, but also the founder of the United Party. The principles of the United Party are based on the ideas of Gen. Hertzog. I am merely mentioning this because the hon. member brought the National Party into the picture.

When the hon. member for Orange Grove was speaking there was an argument across the floor concerning the contributions made by other population groups to Afrikaans. I do not want to be personal, but I must say that it always astonishes me that there should be Afrikaans-speaking persons who continually emphasize how small and how insular we are, instead of pointing out how open-minded we are. In a country like Portugal they are openly proud of the role which the Moors played in the development of Portuguese culture. We need not be at all ashamed of the contribution made by groups other than the present Afrikaans-speaking people to the Afrikaans language. There are approximately 30 million people in the world who are Dutch-speaking. Many of them are Asiatics, Orientals, who became Dutch-speaking as a result of the empire which the Netherlands had in the East. All those people have, via Dutch, played a part in Afrikaans language. I am merely mentioning this because there was an argument concerning the contribution of others to Afrikaans. Nor do I think we need be ashamed of the contribution which so many other languages have made to the development of the Afrikaans language.

When the Afrikaanse Woordeboek was launched, it was expected that they would be able to accomplish the task in three years in the sense that it would be possible to compile the main dictionary within the space of three years. But a language is something which grows all the time, and to which new words are constantly being added. Consequently a dictionary will never be completed. The same applies to the other dictionaries in the world such as the Oxford Dictionary and Van Dale’s Nederlandse Woordeboek. The compilation of these dictionaries has been in progress for generations, and for that reason we must not expect the Afrikaanse Woordeboek to be completed, nor should pressure be exerted in order to have it “completed”, although we must certainly complete the basic foundation as quickly as possible. It is a permanent institution. As the language grows and as new words originate, so the dictionary will always grow with the language. For that reason we are pleased that the Afrikaanse Woordeboek is, for the first time now, being placed on a statutory basis. The Bill which the hon. the Minister has introduced here, is being cordially welcomed, not only by Afrikaans-speaking persons, but also by English-speaking persons on both sides of the House.

I must say that I am particularly pleased that this event, which is an important event, has occurred in the year which has come to be known as Langenhoven Year.

There will probably be a few points which we would like to dispose of during the Committee Stage with the hon. the Minister. There will be a few questions which we will ask, but for the present I just want to point out two further aspects.

The one is that I find it rather strange that the first title of the Bill should be in English. Since the English titles are appearing first this year, the words to appear at the top of the title page of the Bill are:“Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal” Bill. This is no-one’s fault, it is not the Government’s fault, because I know that there is a specific order which has to be followed in the placing of the English titles at the top and the Afrikaans titles at the bottom. I wonder whether we should not, in this specific case, with a Bill of this type, consider reversing the order. After all, Bills are, when they become Acts, published as separate documents. As the Bill stands at present, it seems a little unusual to me.

Then I see that the Bill refers to the question of determining the purchase price of the dictionaries. This is a detail, but I want to ask the hon. the Minister, if he has any authority in regard to the price of the dictionaries, whether he would not give special attention to this matter, and try to ensure that the price is kept as reasonable as possible. Naturally a dictionary is a bulky and expensive book, but I do think that this is something which should, with the help of the State, be distributed as widely as possible, and should therefore be kept as inexpensive as possible.

Tribute was with justification paid to the editors, the pioneers of this dictionary. I have the privilege of knowing Prof. J. J. Smith, who was the first editor and pioneer of this dictionary, and in such a manner that I know how extremely difficult the circumstances were under which he had to work in the initial years. Not only he, but those who succeeded him, are deserving of tribute. When I say this, I do not merely mean that we in this House should pay tribute to them. We are always very quck— I am not saying this now with any particular person in mind; on that score we can level criticism at a later stage—to pay tribute to politicians, and to erect monuments to political leaders. We are very quick to give the names of politicians to buildings, school buildings for example. It is a noticeable failing of ours that we so seldom use the names of our language pioneers and our cultural leaders for this purpose. It is noticeable that such names are conspicuous by their absence, when tribute has to be paid to great South Africans. I want to say to the hon. the Minister that tribute ought to be paid to the pioneers of this dictionary. Since the State is becoming involved in this way, I hope that the Minister will utilize appropriate opportunities—for example when names have to be given to institutions or buildings—to pay proper tribute as well to the pioneers of this “Woordeboek” and in general, of the Afrikaans language and culture.

Mr. Speaker, before I come to the hon. Opposition, I want to congratulate the hon. the Minister on this Bill which he has introduced. It was about time that the dictionary was placed under statutory authority, and we are grateful to the hon. the Minister for that.

Sir, the hon. Opposition gave me a pleasant surprise by supporting this Bill so whole-heartedly. Even the hon. member for Yeoville enjoyed himself when someone discussed the “Afrikaanse Woordeboek”. Then I wondered whether I should not consider devising some plan for presenting the hon. member for Port Natal with a dictionary. But because I personally could not afford to give him the dictionary, I think that I should give him a good Afrikaans book, out of appreciation for the support of the hon. Opposition.

The hon. member for Orange Grove said that one was growing impatient with the dictionary. I want to agree with him; one is really growing impatient, but this is a matter which takes a great deal of time. I want to give the House one or two examples. We are all impatient, but we must remember that this is very time-consuming work, particularly if one considers words which must be neatly correlated, such as the following: “kasaterwater”, “tasaterwater”, “koesassawater”, “gabbatjies”, “genadewater”. “ghwawater”, “kabêwater”, “kienasiewater”, “nawater”, “samboelawater” and “skottelgoedwater”. Sir, these are all terms used for weak coffee. Collecting them is quite a long process. Then we think of words like “kernsplyting”, a very scientific word. To give the meaning of this word, to select it and to define its meaning in such a way that the ordinary man in the street will also understand it is not so easy, and is time-consuming as well.

Then we get other instances, such as the little word “ken”, and the word “kennis”, and the permutations of the words “ken” and “kennis”. These are all words which must be correlated, and of which a meaningful analysis must be given. When one thinks of the multiplicity of problems involved in the compilation of a dictionary, and especially of a dictionary like this particular Afrikaanse Woordeboek, then one must agree with people like C. F. A. van Dam, who said in 1954 in the Spaans Hatidwoordenboek, Vol. 3, that—

He too experienced this, that it is a very great and comprehensive task. Then we think of Trommius, the compiler of the Dutch Bible Concordance. What did he say, Sir? He said that if someone contravenes the law and has to be heavily punished for it, one should order him to compile a dictionary. That must be his punishment, to draw up a list of words or a register of words for compiling a dictionary These are his words—

Mr. Speaker, this task which is being performed and which will be performed over a very long period, is a great task. It is a task for the Afrikaans language, a language which until recently, even at the beginning of this century, was described as a “patois”. Today it is a language which stands on its own two feet, which can justify and maintain itself. It is a language concerning which we can rightly say, as Dr. F. J. Snyman, the present editor of the Afrikaanse Woordeboek expressed it (translation): “It opens a treasure chest of quite exceptional instruments”. Sir, if there were no such thing as words, I wonder how mankind would communicate. Words are the links between one person and another; they form the building materials of ideas; everything is expressed in words, and this goes for the Afrikaans language no less than for any other language. To the Afrikaans language which is young, to the Afrikaans language which serves this people and this country, to the Afrikaans language which had its origin on this soil, justice is being done today.

Sir, in the short time at my disposal I also want to pay tribute, together with previous speakers, to those who have worked and those who are still engaged in this great task of enriching our language. This Afrikaanse Woordeboek will always remain incomplete as long as there is an Afrikaans language. Therefore I want to wish the present chief editor, Dr. Snyman, and his staff of ten, well with this great task and I hope and trust that they will give only of their best, and will in addition devote their precious time to this great task.

I just want to express a few thoughts concerning this particular Bill. I am very pleased to find that it is the general opinion of hon. members that this great task will actually be a never-ending process, because we are not only collecting words; we are really compiling a treasury of definition, and as such this great task will be continued as the Afrikaans language grows. I want to remind this hon. House of the fact that the Woorden boek der Nederlandsche Taal, which was begun in 1864, is nowhere near completion yet. There are certain aspects in respect of the collection of Afrikaans words in South Africa which I always find striking. Prof. Antonie N. E. Changuion compiled the first dictionary in 1844 and it only contained 200 Afrikaans words. What I find so striking in this connection is the fact that it was compiled by someone who came from the Netherlands, but who was in fact a Frenchman. He was a descendant of the Huguenots who were living in the Netherlands at that time. He began this task here in South Africa in an institution which was really the precursor of the University of Cape Town. It is striking, when one thinks of the establishment of the Afrikaans language and the Afrikaans people, which consisted of people whose ancestors had various countries of origin, that it should have been such a person who first applied himself to this task. Thirty years later, in 1874, we had Nicolaas Mansvelt, and at that stage the vocabulary comprised 2 000 words. Later on, under the leadership of the Rev. Mr. S. J. du Toit and the “Genootskap van Regte Afrikaners,” a certain programme was drawn up which was completed round about the end of the Anglo-Boer War. By then we had 16 500 words in the dictionary which was published at that time. We find that by the end of 1945, when Prof. J. J. Smith had been working for about 19 years—he started his work in 1926—there were already 230 000 cards containing definitions. In 1963 the cards numbered one million and by now they have increased to far more than two million. That is why I say that this task is a great one and that we must not be concerned if it is not rapidly concluded by means of this legislation. That is simply impossible.

Another thought which I would just like to bring to the attention of the House is that we in South Africa, and some politicians, perhaps, are sometimes inclined to think that the acknowledgment of Afrikaans in later years must be regarded as a struggle of Afrikaans against English, but in reality it was a struggle of Afrikaans against Dutch; and since this is Langenhoven year, I just want to quote what he said in 1911, as published in Ons land (Our country) of 15th August—

This was said by Langenhoven and it is fitting that we should call him in as a judge, but we can say that we have now reached the stage where there is no longer a struggle against some group or other and that it is our task to continue with this great work.

After having listened to four speakers of the Opposition, I want to say that I am in no way impressed by the fact that they support this Bill. Of the two younger members who spoke, I can say that I think they tried to put matters in historically correct perspective, as far as they could, and here and there, like the hon. member for Turffontein, they had to profess verbally that they are Afrikaners—I do not know how deeply felt that is. [Interjections.] I want to tell the hon. member that I heard his verbal assurances and that I have to accept them as such. But, Sir, I must tell you that in the light of the Afrikaner’s history, his language and also in the light of the history of hon. members such as those for Orange Grove and Bezuidenhout in politics over the past 20 or 30 years, I am not impressed at all by their expressions of esteem and appreciation, or whatever, for this particular Bill. And I am not only paying lip-service, I am saying it from the depths of my heart as far as those two hon. members are concerned.

Is your father a United Party man?

No, not at all. That is not relevant at all at this stage. But I want to tell you, Sir, that the struggle of the Afrikaans Language is also interwoven in the struggle of the Afrikaner nation. I want to remind the hon. members there that in 1911, when it was asked whether officials on the Railways should know and speak both languages, a newspaper like The Star referred with contempt to “that stupid patios”. We had that kind of language. I now want to ask hon. members of the Opposition: What will the language be, for example, in the so-called federation they one day want to call into being in South Africa. There was also a time in history, in the struggle of the Afrikaans language, when it was said of some of the poets of that time that they were Afrikaners with Dutch hearts, Afrikaners with English hearts and Afrikaners with Afrikaner hearts. The hon. members on the Opposition side, who have thus far spoken, must actually square matters with their own consciences in saying what kind of hearts they have.

In looking at this Bill, and in wanting to speak about it, one actually feels like the young man who stood at the fruit tree with its delicious fruit, a tree planted there under very difficult circumstances by his grandfather or great-grandfather. We, this generation of Afrikaners, are standing at this tree and we are picking that fruit which we enjoy, but deep down we are nevertheless thinking of those people who planted, watered and tended the tree under very difficult circumstances. It is consequently a very good thing, therefore, that the hon. members on our side of the House also paid tribute to the people who preceded us.

It is interesting, if one can put it this way, that this Bill’s Second Reading is specifically being dealt with on Van Riebeeck Day, that day on which we festively commemorate settlement in South Africa, although we shall in future be working on this day. We have a very great need of work in South Africa. It is also interesting, when looking at the history of the Afrikaans language, to note that although Colenbrander analysed the composition of the population at the end of the 18th century and found that the Afrikaners constituted 53% of that population, Dr. Heese has now brought that figure down to 36%, quite probably a more correct figure. Nevertheless, the Afrikaner people did not take its language from French or German but from Dutch. That language was consequently formed here in South Africa as the only Afrikaans language in the world. One can perhaps link Afrikaans to Dutch linguistically, and perhaps one can also link it to another people in the world that speaks Dutch, but Afrikaans had its origins, its roots and its struggle in South Africa. Therefore one also finds Afrikaans here as part of that particular national group whose pattern of life also took shape in South Africa.

Hon. members also mentioned that Langenhoven’s 100th Birthday is being celebrated this year. Although Langenhoven was not all that enthusiastic about Afrikaans in his earlier years—he also acknowledged this—he was one of the biggest contributors to the establishment of the Afrikaans language.

I think it was the hon. member for Durban Central who pointed out that Afrikaans actually waged a struggle against Dutch alone. I think the hon. member is quite wrong as far as the history of the Afrikaans language is concerned. As the Afrikaner nation has continually had a struggle for survival, and always will have, so will Afrikaans as a language also struggle continuously for its survival. If there are people, including those on the Opposition side, who think that a people or language should conclude the struggle for survival on a specific date, I want to tell them that that is just the beginning of the end of that people, its language and its culture. Therefore we can today dwell on another victory which the Afrikaans language has achieved in its struggle for survival. One is grateful for this.

One thing one is also grateful for, in speaking of the victory gained by the Afrikaans language, is that its bearers, and the people who struggle for its survival, were never imperialists and were never ever imbued with the idea of destroying or depriving any other national group of its language. That is why, in plucking this fine fruit, one can be so grateful for that.

In this Bill it is provided that the Dictionary’s seat will be the University of Stellenbosch. I myself am an ex-student of the University of Pretoria. Therefore it is perhaps a good thing that I am specifically to be the one to say that one is grateful that the seat of the Dictionary will be that university. I think it is essential today for students of other universities in our country to express their particular thanks to the University of Stellenbosch for the fact that in those years, when it was the only university, it did also make a positive, even though very humble, contribution to the establishment of Afrikaans in the academic world. Although various other universities sprouted from the University of Stellenbosch, if one may put it in those terms, I think that our other universities should take note, with great thanks and appreciation, of the work which has been done at Stellenbosch for the establishment and development of the Afrikaans language.

The other universities also did a great deal to perpetuate Afrikaans, not only on the academic level, but also in the other spheres of our national life. Whether it was in the economic sphere, the ecclesiastical or religious sphere, the political sphere or in the spheres of drama, poetry and literature, there were men and women everywhere who established the Afrikaans language. In the case of the University of Pretoria I think, for example, of Prof. M. S. B. Kritzinger, who also did very good work as far as compiling dictionaries is concerned. I am also thinking of people like Prof. S. A. Louw and Prof. Büning. In the case of the University of Potchefstroom one thinks of a person like Prof. J. P. du Toit who, not only with his own writing and poems, but also in his sermons and his work as a Bible translator, did a big job getting Afrikaans established. At the University of the Orange Free State there was a man like Prof. D. F. Malherbe who also tirelessly fought for it. At our English language universities there were also professors who made a big contribution to Afrikaans. I am thinking, for example, of Prof. Van der Merwe Scholtz and Prof. Nienaber.

When, at this stage, we look at the Afrikaanse Woordeboek, as it has already appeared in parts, we realize again the depth and wealth locked within the Afrikaans language, and one could intellectually entertain oneself at the highest level, not only for one hour of an evening, but for many evenings and weeks by just paging through and reading the Afrikaanse Woordeboek. One finds a variety of words in it. One finds it particularly striking to note how the Afrikaans language, which was born in South Africa under particular circumstances, was so adaptable that today, in modern times, it can simply make or take over words at the most scientific level. In this way, in this modern world, one can in every field find a word in Afrikaans with which one can make oneself understood.

I want to conclude by specifically referring to the hon. member for Turffontein, who made mention of the new-fangled kind of poets that we have lately. One must then acknowledge and confess that the Afrikaans language has also been abused and made wrong use of by certain members of Afrikanerdom, that they use it simply to destroy the Afrikaner himself. I say that if the hon. member thinks that a person like Breyten Breytenbach does any credit to the Afrikaans language, I disagree with him completely as far as that is concerned. At this stage I want to appeal to our up-and-coming generation not to be dragged along by a permissive world to use the Afrikaans language, with its depth of content and meaning, to place themselves on a level not worthy of the Afrikaans language and the Afrikaner nation.

Mr. Speaker, at such a late hour on a Friday afternoon one would only be able to generate so much interest in a subject and a debate such as this, and so much zeal to participate in it, if it dealt with a Bill on which there is complete unanimity in the House. That would be a good reason which one could advance for the course this debate has taken. But on the other hand it is also true that we really have reason to be grateful and unanimous. I want to begin then by extending my sincere thanks to all the hon. members who participated in this debate for their contributions. Here and there, a few digs were made at one another, but I do not think this made any real difference to the actual course of this debate. I think the debate remained on a very high level throughout, and all the members made contributions in regard to which we need not express too much criticism.

The hon. member for Orange Grove began with a quotation from Langenhoven, which was very appropriate. He also mentioned, as did other speakers, that this Bill is actually being piloted through the House in Langenhoven Year. That is true. It is perhaps a very appropriate occasion. Perhaps we could also have piloted it through the House in the year in which we commemorated the Genootskap van Regte Afrikaners, but on the other hand it would have been an omission on our part if we had not rectified these matters when they were brought so specifically to our attention, as did in fact happen.

I want to agree with hon. members who stated that this is a great occasion this afternoon, an occasion which will still be recorded in our history as one of the milestones. It is not only something which a single language group or section of a language group can appropriate to itself in this country, for the contents of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal, and, in fact, the dictionary itself, is the common heritage of us all. For that reason we are all grateful to have reached this stage.

I want to go further. This is an equally valuable contribution within the framework of our ties with Medieval Dutch. I am convinced that cognizance will also be taken with great appreciation in certain circles in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, of the legislation which we are in this way this afternoon placing on the Statue Book.

The hon. member for Bezuidenhout mentioned that justice should be done to a greater extent to the language pioneers, and perhaps the “Woordeboek” pioneers as well, when names are given to institutions and even buildings. This is most certainly something to which consideration ought to be given in future. However, I do want to say that this is something to which justice has in fact been done quite frequently in the past. Sir, we know that the University of Stellenbosch has for years been collecting money for a Langenhoven Hall. We know that justice has been done to these writers and language pioneers by naming streets after them in various places in the country. We have also heard with gratitude that on 11th August this year in Oudtshoorn the C.J. Langenhoven Memorial Library will be opened. All these things prove to me that our people are in fact aware of the need to commemorate in this way our language pioneers as well.

The subject we discussed, as you could gather, was a subject which we could have gone on discussing for days on end. Perhaps it is a good thing that we are dealing with it at this hour of the afternoon, and that time is catching up on us. We need not discuss it for such a long period. I think we have placed on record what we wanted to, and should have said, and we need not elaborate on it further at too great a length and in too great detail. However, certain points were mentioned to which I want to return.

The hon. member for Orange Grove mentioned that Afrikaans also gives us a link with Africa. I want to confirm this. It is true that there are in many parts of Africa persons whose home language was Afrikaans, as well as other South Africans who are able to speak Afrikaans and who like to speak it or to show that they know it. They do this to indicate in that way their ties with South Africa and their differentness, (andersheid) in the country in which they find themselves. So we do in fact have that link. If we wish to elaborate on this subject, we need only think of all the non-White miners who come here from all over Africa and are here taught a miner’s language, Fanagalo. You would find it interesting to ascertain how much Afrikaans has been included in Fanagalo. These miners return to their own countries and bear those transformed Afrikaans expressions into those countries as well, and in this way it is also considerably easier to achieve a mutual understanding there. We also know that in Israel it frequently happens that when some Israelis want to discuss matters with one another which they do not want other Israelis or Arabs to understand, many of them speak Afrikaans to one another. This was told to me as a fact by reliable persons who are citizens of Israel. From the limited experience I have had as ambassador abroad, I can personally testify that there was an Idonesian ambassador in Vienna, a woman, and she and I always spoke to one another in Afrikaans and Dutch. Frequently some of our other colleagues became green with envy because we were speaking a language they could not understand. This also touches on the point mentioned by the hon. member for Bezuidenhout, viz that there are in fact 30 million or more Dutch-speaking persons in the world, persons who speak a language cognate to our Afrikaans. The opportunity therefore exists for us to forge ties in Africa, and even outside Africa by means of Afrikaans. I believe that the “Woordeboek” will make a major and important contribution to that end.

I think that the Board of Control and the Bureau of the “Woordeboek”, as well as its editor-in-chief and staff, will take cognizance with much gratitude and, I almost want to say, with relief, of the fact that this House is unanimous in its opinion that the long period of time required for this work as well as the justifiable costs which this entails was not a consideration for us in our discussion. I think this gives them a certainty which they have probably desired for a long time. They have always had the feeling that a sword was dangling over their heads. I think for example of a language expert whom I knew very well and still know, who was considered at the time for appointment to the post of editor-in-chief of this dictionary. He refused because he said the future was too uncertain. The dictionary has to be completed within a few years and if he had to accept that post at his age, what would happen to him afterwards? I know that the present staff of the Woordeboek now have the certainty that there is no concern in regard to this matter.

Since I am referring to money matters, I could perhaps bring up the point mentioned by the hon. member for Bezuidenhout, namely the price of the dictionary. Now, I want to inform him that the price of the dictionary is determined as a Government publication according to fixed norms laid down by the Government Printer. In the case of the dictionary we have a concession in that only the printing costs, the handling costs and the storing costs are in fact included in the calculation of the price. In other words, this is already a considerable concession in respect of the dictionary. Then, too, I may refer to the rebate of up to 45% which is being granted to dealers to encourage the distribution of the book, and I think that with that we have already made a laudable effort. Who knows, in this atmosphere of unanimity, in which we all agree that money and expenditure is not the prime consideration, we could perhaps persuade the Minister of Finance to make a larger grant available to the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal, and in this way try to reduce the price even further. I shall in any event try to establish what the possibilities of doing this are.

The hon. member for Orange Grove also raised the matter of subsequent editions. Now it is unfortunately the case that subsequent editions of the dictionary remain unchanged or practically unchanged. The reason for this is that it is almost impossible, from the point of view of the work and also from the point of view of the costs, to bring the first volumes published up to date and to republish them again in printed form while one is still working on the remaining letters of the alphabet. When I say this, I have told only half the truth, for the work on the entire dictionary, all the letters, continues unabated. I do not want to bore the House with figures, but it will nevertheless be interesting if I were to mention that the first volume of the dictionary contains 33 864 words which have already been explained and recorded in print.

Up to what letter of the alphabet did that volume go?

I think the first volume went up to the letter “C”. At present there are 4 000 words and expressions in respect of this first volume which have not yet been furnished with definitions; as well as words and expressions with which the lexicographers are experiencing problems. This work continues unabated. On the other hand this latest volume which I showed to hon. members a moment ago, viz. Part V, contains 27 000 words which have been defined, and which are recorded in that volume. Here, too, there are a further approximately 4 000 words which are being processed and have not yet been defined. In other words, this is a process to which there is almost no end. I also want to refer here to the observation made by the hon. member for Turffontein. I concede that he did not do so in a derogatory sense. He said that the work is of such a magnitude that we have only now reached the letter “K”. I want to tell him that we have of course progressed much further than the letter “K”, for the work continues unabated on all the letters of the alphabet. But as far as the printing is concerned, we have at this stage only progressed as far as the letter “K”.

I should also like to refer to the statement which, I think, was made by the hon. member for Orange Grove, that we need not be afraid of loan words. I can reassure him and say that we are not afraid of loan words from other languages, but that we must obviously establish a very strict criterion when we determine which words should be included in the dictionary, and when a word should be taken over as a loan word. It is a fact that Afrikaans has a wonderful creative ability and people from abroad who are able to understand Afrikaans are repeatedly astonished at the creative ability of Afrikaans in the modern times in which we are living. While one finds other countries, and even cognate countries, which readily take over loan words, one finds that Afrikaans retains the creative ability to make viable and unique words for many of these modern concepts. We must encourage that trend, and not discourage it by simply borrowing words. The hon. member for Koedoespoort placed particular emphasis on this aspect of what is unique to us, what we preserve in our language and on the basis of which we try to coin new words. I agree wholeheartedly with what the hon. member said.

Then, too, reference was made to clause 17, which we shall discuss later during the Committee Stage. Misgivings were expressed in regards to this clause, and I want to say that I agree wholeheartedly that the lexicographers should be extremely careful when they come to the interpretation of words. But the lexicographers find that their path is strewn with thorns. The hon. member for Turffontein quoted a few examples to us here from the Oxford Dictionary, and I can inform the House that some of those examples to which he referred are in fact those which gave rise to court cases. What is the real problem of the scientist dealing with the compilation of a dictionary? There is in the first place the science of defining the concept, and that in itself is difficult enough. In my Second Reading speech I said that according to the editor-in-chief of the Oxford Dictionary one of his best assistants worked for six months simply to find a proper elucidation of the word “that”, which all of us regard as an everyday word. In addition the lexicographer deals with the fact that in language, which is a living phenomenon, one has to deal with something like semantic deterioration. A word which at one stage was completely acceptable and gave no person in the country or abroad any offence, can in time and under other circumstances undergo a semantic deterioration. In subsequent editions such a word must obviously be re-scrutinized to see whether it has not undergone semantic deterioration. On the other hand there is in philology such a thing as semantic refinement.

A word which at one specific juncture had a derogatory or even dubious meaning, can in due course undergo semantic refinement. Such a word may in common parlance acquire a better and more acceptable meaning. These are all problems with which the lexicographer has to cope. I also want to say that when it concerns an explanatory dictionary such as this “Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal”, the lexicographers try in the course of their activities to support their interpretation of the word’s meaning by quotations from writings to prove that it is a current expression. The hon. member for Turffontein quoted a few examples here. I also have an interesting example which I want to quote to hon. members from the latest volume of the dictionary. Here for example you have the word “kattekoor”. This is “’n kattegekerm of -skerts, beskou as ’n koor”. Then a few examples are given, inter alia:

I am grateful that we have not had a “kattekoor” this afternoon, but that we have in fact heard paean of praise for the work of this Bureau of the “woordeboek”, the editor-in-chief and his assistants, and that we all agree that we are engaged here in a major and important task with which we, despite time and costs, are continuing, because what is at issue here is an asset to us all.

With that, I think, I have done justice to all the speakers who participated in this debate. I want to thank them once again most sincerely. If I should perhaps in haste, because of the pressure of time, have overlooked anything, they must please raise it again during the Committee Stage.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read a Second Time.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

Agreed to.