WEDNESDAY, 7 JUNE 2000 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:04.

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS, AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                    TAXI VIOLENCE IN WESTERN CAPE

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, in the face of the mounting transport crisis here in the greater Cape Town area, we in the ANC have been exceedingly patient with the Western Cape authorities. As the ANC in the National Assembly we have over the last several months gone out of our way to avoid point-scoring. We have not sought to obtain political mileage, despite the obvious fact that equally complex problems around the minibus industry have recently been dealt with effectively and decisively in other provinces, notably in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal.

In the course of April, out of their own exasperation, the taxi associations Cata and Codeta, Golden Arrow Bus Services and Cosatu approached the ANC here in the Western Cape to help to facilitate discussions on short-term and long-term solutions to the dispute between public transport providers. Some important progress was made at a meeting that lasted for five hours on 13 April. In our view, the key issues and the way that was mapped out at that particular meeting continue to be entirely relevant. However, in order to go forward, they require implementation and that requires effective co-operation from the Western Cape coalition government.

At the end of the day, for better and perhaps for worse, the political ball is substantially in the Western Cape coalition government’s side of the court. From that side of things there seems to be drift, confusion, lack of decisiveness on the big things, and on the other hand, bureaucratic inflexibility on the smaller things, and those smaller things are now growing into mountains too.

It is difficult to understand why this should be the case. Is it incompetence, or is it indifference? Or is it even - and this is being said widely out there in communities - racial indifference, because, after all, the affected communities are, not entirely but largely, African townships, not the constituency of the New NP and not the constituency of the DP, although they make occasional safaris into darker Africa, presumably in the interests of encouraging tourism. [Interjections.] Can we expect any sense of urgency from a provincial Cabinet that does not include a single African member? I think that is a question we have to ask. But how do we move forward?

Now, the first message we have to send - and I think we all agree on this - is that under no circumstances can we tolerate intimidation, harassment or violence of any kind. As the ANC we are completely unequivocal about this. [Applause.] We have said this publicly, but we have also said this privately in our many dealings with the taxi associations, in particular. The police, the traffic officers and the army, wherever they are being deployed, must deal, without fear or favour, with the perpetrators of violence. The safety of communities and of commuters is paramount, and commuters must be free to choose the public transport that best meets their needs.

In this whole area of law and order, the provincial coalition government has sent a mixed bag of confusing signals - stop, start and stop again. Despite what has been a brewing crisis now for many months, they were very slow indeed to introduce enabling legislation to make pre-emptive closing of taxi ranks, for instance, possible. Finally, to great fanfare on 16 May, in a great rush, they pushed the relevant legislation through the provincial legislature and then they went fast asleep once more, and it took them a further two weeks to be in touch with the national level in order to make implementation possible.

Dealing decisively with violence is absolutely essential, but law and order is not the only solution to this particular problem. For some time now, we have been busy with the special legalisation process of the minibus industry within the framework developed by the national taxi task team. And this is a critical process, bearing in mind that the minibus industry, which is used by more than 60% of commuters, emerged, as we all know in our country, out of robust entrepreneurship, in spite of the laws at the time. We have to help this major industry to legalise and formalise.

Great progress has been made nationally on this front, but again it has to be said that, here in the Western Cape, the legalisation process has been approached in an insensitive manner …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Dr Delport, you will have your time at the podium. When your time comes, then you can make all the noise you want, sir. Please continue.

Mr J P CRONIN: This legalisation process, here in the Western Cape, has been approached in an incredibly insensitive manner that has failed to address the imbalances of the past. In particular, for instance, one of the conditions for registration to get a permit is that the vehicle should be registered in the name of the operator. Now, this might seem like a perfectly reasonable requirement in theory, but in practice, on the ground, it has been running into many difficulties. We think that there are approximately 600 minibuses in here in the Cape Town area which are owned by recognised operators who have been in the business for many years. We are talking about vehicles that are perfectly roadworthy and licensed, but which are not registered in the names of the operators, and for a good reason. When they approach banks and they come from Khayelitsha, the banks tell them: ``Sorry, it is impossible to get a loan.’’ So in order to get a loan and purchase a roadworthy vehicle, they have to go through other people, and on these grounds they get disqualified from registration for permits.

For almost a year now we have been pointing out to the MEC for Transport in this province, Piet Meyer, that there is a problem on this front. In other provinces, sensitivity and flexibility have been shown on this question. The objective is to ensure that a maximum number of taxi operators are brought within the framework of legality. Where we require decisiveness from the Western Cape provincial government, there is stop, start and stop again. Where some sensitivity is required, we get exactly the opposite - a dogged and unbending enforcement of bureaucratic regulations with oogklappies [blinkers] on.

Many of the vehicles that have been impounded in recent days belong to the category of roadworthy and licensed minibuses that have fallen foul of one or another petty registration detail. The Western Cape transport MEC must not tell us, as he did on Monday, that the legalisation process in the Western Cape is now complete. It is not complete. This is a festering sore, and he must address, as a matter of urgency, this whole area. It is part of any sustainable resolution of the current problems.

There is also a longstanding problem here in the greater Cape Town area with the local road transport board. We welcome the fact that MEC Piet Meyer has now promised to revamp this board by increasing its number from six to nine, I think, in an effort, we hope, to make it more representative. One of the major grievances amongst taxi associations in the Cape Town area, and this is by no means confined to Cata and Codeta, is that the local road transport board has been unduly influenced by Golden Arrow.

A practice has evolved in which Golden Arrow employs full-time lawyers who are present at the hearings of the board and who just simply and routinely object to any application for a permit by minibus operators. The taxi associations, for their part, cannot afford to appoint full-time lobbyists and they cannot match the resource base of the bus company. This is a source of great and understandable resentment amongst taxi operators. Hopefully, this will change soon. However, once more we have to say that the Western Cape coalition government has been incredibly slow to move on this front. [Interjections.]

Both these issues - I am talking about the disqualifying of taxis because of registration technicalities and the operations of the local road transportation board - underline that the current conflict here in the Western Cape cannot simply be reduced to Golden Arrow versus Cata and Codeta. But again this is something that the Western Cape coalition government refuses to accept.

On Wednesday, 31 May, the provincial cabinet, including the two key MECs, ie Meyer and Wiley, the MEC for community and safety, met with representatives from Cata, Codeta and Golden Arrow bus services, and they all agreed that a mediation process would be helpful. This was scheduled to start two days later, on Friday, 2 June. Much to the distress of the taxi associations, it was only they and Golden Arrow who bothered to turn up at this particular meeting, along with a CCMA official. The MECs seemed to think that this was not their problem, that the dispute was simply a matter of routes and schedules to be resolved amongst the taxi operators and the bus company.

This is of course one dimension of the problem, and if some amicable resolution can be found between the taxi operators and the bus company, so much the better. But it is a terrible illusion that seems to be harboured by the Western Cape coalition government officials that this is all that is required. [Interjections.] Their own policies and administrative practices are part of the problem. What the provincial government is doing and failing to do itself needs to be on the negotiations table.

In an editorial last week, Die Burger correctly observed that the violence was deplorable. It also called, correctly, on the provincial government to be more decisive. Then it went on to say that no one should be allowed to use violence to gain an advantage on the free market. I admit I am not a specialist on the free market … [Interjections] … but I do know that what we have here in the Cape is not a free market. [Interjections.]

The public transport market, if that is what one wants to call it, has been shaped, in the first place, by the very unfree apartheid era, Group Areas Act removals and other housing policies, for black people, which scattered the majority of Capetonians far and wide and distanced them from their workplaces. This created a market and a demand, as is the case in most of our cities, for mass transport systems; one way in the morning, and the other way in the evening.

A company like Golden Arrow moved into this market, sustained and supported by generous government subsidies. Golden Arrow still benefits from subsidies and this privately-owned, still largely white company, has built a profitable monopoly transporting poor black people to and from their workplaces. This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a free market. [Interjections.] As we transform, recapitalise, formalise and plan a decent public transport system more coherently, we shall also have to look at the whole subsidy system and at how it works, and ensure that previously disadvantaged operators also benefit from subsidies.

The provincial government’s handling of the deepening public transport crisis in the greater Cape Town area has been indecisive, complacent, negligent and incoherent. It is the direct consequence of a coalition that was cobbled together back in June last year. [Interjections.] It was a coalition that was premised on … [Interjections.] That has been dealt with very decisively in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, resume your seat, please. [Interjections.] Order! Hon Leader of the Opposition, please withdraw the words, ``he is a hypocrite’’.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: He is!

HON MEMBERS: Withdraw, withdraw! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Please withdraw the words, sir. [Interjections.] Order!

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, I believe the member is a hypocrite, but I will withdraw the words. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, please withdraw the words without any qualification or preference. Withdraw the words.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I withdraw the words. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you. [Interjections.] Order! Please continue, hon member.

Mr J P CRONIN: I thank the hon the Leader of the Opposition for his withdrawal. I assure him that any label that he attaches to me runs off me like water off a duck’s back. [Interjections.]

The provincial government’s handling of this deeply public transport crisis in the Greater Cape Town area has been indecisive, complacent, negligent and incoherent, and it is the direct consequence of a coalition that was caballed together back in June last year - a coalition premised on the exclusion of a very large part of the population of this province. It has resulted in a provincial cabinet that lacks understanding, access into and respect from large communities in this city and this province. The blundering that we have seen for so many months has everything to do with this reality. But, of course, it is not the coalition cabinet that is having to pay for its own blundering: it is hundreds of thousands of people in Khayelitsha, Nyanga, Guguletu and Delft whose lives have been disrupted. Precisely for that reason, as the ANC, we do not want to end on a note of political point-scoring, although it is hard not to score points when one discusses this issue. [Interjections.] But as the ANC … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S PILLAY: Mr Chairperson, it is not good enough simply to close taxi ranks and impound taxis. Clearly, the violence, the threats, the petrol bombings, the murders and the shootings - are not spontaneous, but well organised. What the public wants are arrests, prosecutions and convictions of the people who are responsible for perpetuating taxi violence in South Africa.

The issue of taxi violence was used as an instrument of the apartheid regime to destabilise communities, cause greater hardships and provoke general acrimony between communities. The question that I ask today is: Who is causing this violence, and who stands to gain from such chaos? I also have to ask, who are the sufferers and what do they lose from this senseless, brutal, savage and barbaric behaviour?

Another question that has to be asked, and for which answers have to be found is: Is this type of unacceptable and antisocial behaviour a phenomenon of the Western Cape, or is it displayed in other parts of the country? Of course, it is displayed in other parts of the country. One only has to look at the different media reports of the past week in The Star and the Sowetan. They are too numerous to even elaborate here at this point.

Obviously, the MEC of transport in KwaZulu-Natal decided to take action to stop the taxi violence. What happened then? There was no debate in Parliament; there was absolute silence. The taxi operators and owners then promptly hatched a plot to assassinate him. Therefore, let us not pretend that this is a phenomenon that affects the Western Cape only. It is happening in Gauteng, it is happening in the North West Province, it is happening in KwaZulu-Natal and it is happening in the Eastern Cape. [Interjections.]

The MEC of transport in the Western Cape has taken certain action to stop the taxi violence. Obviously, the taxi operators and owners, as well as those who incite violence - and they know who they are - will plot against him. When taxi drivers and operators openly and covertly threaten violence and mayhem, demanding to be treated differently from other road users, then that demand is unacceptable.

One media report after the other shows an extremely grim picture of devastation that is wreaked upon the lives of communities. Some of the illustrations of what the media says are: Council cuts its services in Khayelitsha'' - innocent people are suffering simply because of the violence;Warning of bloodbath at taxi rank in Faraday’’; ``Traffic frozen by protesting taxi convoy’’, and so on.

What I want to say here again is that Minister Dullah Omar’s lack of control over the spending of funds in his department is yet another example of the rapid deterioration of financial controls within Government departments. It is very simple: starve the Western Cape government of enough of the finance for ensuring effective law enforcement, and thus mess up the whole system - and that is what is happening. Over the past five financial years, approximately R653 million went unspent, R72 million of which was due to vacant posts. In a number of written replies to the questions that my colleague the hon Farrow asked in Parliament, the Minister stated that there had been a number of cases in which funds were left unspent.

My question to the Minister is: When does the Minister envisage filling these posts? What has been the main reason for these posts not being filled? What plans does he have to ensure that these sorts of savings are in future correctly channelled to law enforcement. With so much money being rolled over, the Minister must relocate funding to fill the posts that are so urgently required to be filled in order to assist in road safety, including the prevention of taxi violence. This matter is essential in any industry as volatile as the transport sector where taxi violence is a known phenomenon. A co-ordinated approach is essential, and the hon Minister is well advised to take note of that fact.

The tourism industry is affected negatively because visitors are afraid to use any form of transport to go into townships. Firearms and petrol bombs are used in these vicious attacks. Surely, the police forensic laboratory should be in a position to assist in these investigations in order to apprehend the culprits. On the other hand, how can we expect the SAPS forensic laboratory in Pretoria, for instance, to assist with ballistics tests when they are only operating at 25% strength?

Over the past four days 300 taxis were impounded; a good step in the right direction. Now, Government needs to assist the process by involving - I stress - competent members of the NIA and criminal intelligence to ascertain the following facts: Who are the people behind the violence; what is their logical support base; who is their source of arms and ammunition; where do such people obtain their training; what is the link between the use of violence in all affected areas throughout the country and the Western Cape; were ballistics tests done on any exhibits found at the scenes of taxi violence and have comparisons been made to ascertain usage of the same firearms in different instances; how many firearms were seized, and were they legal or illegal; and how many people have been arrested, tried and convicted on charges related to taxi violence?

As I understand, safety and security is a national competency and not a provincial competency. [Interjections.] The DP in the Western Cape has shown solidarity with the bus drivers and commuters by joining them in travelling from the New Way Bridge at Khayelitsha to the city centre. [Interjections.] The DP MECs, MPLs and councillors have also gained first- hand knowledge of the concerns and opinions of the commuters travelling on this treacherous route, and they did not just sit here and make a noise. [Interjections.] Drivers are being killed, and others are making capital gain of it. Commuters travel in fear, and the economy of the province is being negatively affected as a result of workers being unable to get to their places of employment.

I ask again: Who is benefiting from all this chaos? Certainly not the Western Cape government. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr S PILLAY: Chairperson, in any industry, there is competition for limited resources … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Botha, order!

Mr S PILLAY: In any industry, there is competition for limited resources, and transport is no different. Both the bus and taxi services have a right to provide the residents of the Cape Flats with transport. In addition, the commuters have a right to choose a medium of transport without being intimidated by violence, shootings and murders because national Government has not allocated sufficient funds for law enforcement.

We have supported the provincial MEC for transport in getting legislation in place to deal with this problem. He is doing enough in the way of enacting this law and dealing decisively with the thugs responsible for the mayhem. In the light of further shootings that appear to be an everyday occurrence, the DP again encourages the MEC and the authorities and wants them to know that they have our full support in dealing with this problem.

Independent bodies are advised that they should be involved in the resolution of this type of conflict, and the DP supports that. Sansu, one of the greatest warrior-philosophers, stated that strength is not just a matter of extensive territory and a large population, that victory is not just a matter of efficient armaments, that security is not just a matter of high walls and moats, and that authority is not just a matter of strict orders and frequent punishments. Those who establish a viable organisation will survive even if they are small. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Mr Chairman, colleagues-in-arms, Frederick Douglas, in his West India emancipation speech, had this to say:

If there is no struggle, there is no progress, but those who profess to favour freedom and yet deprecate agitation and violence, are men who want crops without ploughing of the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning.

I am sure that there is nobody, neither in this House nor outside, who does not condemn in the strongest terms the violence, intimidation and killings that have taken place - and are still taking place - as a result of these disputes between the taxi operators and the Golden Arrow bus operators. This conflict has dragged on for far too long. As a result, our economy has suffered. Innocent people have been injured and some have been killed in this process. Tens of thousands of commuters will remain the innocent victims, as long as this war is allowed to go unabated.

Conflict associated with this taxi industry has deep roots and has taken many routes. This is not just a law and order problem, but has deep roots on the proposal to regulate an industry which for many years has operated with no rules and no guidelines, because it believed that it was outside the law and was, in fact, allowed to operate as such.

The intensity of the intimidation, accompanied by attacks on Golden Arrow buses and drivers, has been increasing gradually. This is a free-market industry that has gone crazy. The IFP, therefore, calls on both the Ministers of Transport and of Safety and Security immediately to intervene in this ongoing dispute, so as to uphold law and order.

It is now time for drastic actions and not for talking any longer. It is absolutely unacceptable that law-abiding communities should have to live in fear of even going to work, as the bells of intimidation knock on their door. It must be clear to the perpetrators of this violence that this Government will no longer be held to ransom at the expense of its citizens. The perpetrators of this taxi violence must be told that it is the democratic and constitutional right of every citizen of this country to choose freely what transport service to use as well as where and when.

The IFP wishes to voice its total objection to any proposal to close the existing taxi ranks, as suggested in some quarters. We do not see this as a viable solution - on the contrary: it is our considered opinion that the closing of these ranks will, in fact, create more violence. Two wrongs cannot make a right.

The IFP, therefore, wishes to propose that the Government’s proposed taxi recapitalisation programme should be temporarily put on hold until proper consultation with all the various taxi associations - and not only those belonging to Sataco - has taken place. These consultations should be accompanied by properly planned training and seminars for these drivers and owners.

The IFP also wishes to propose that the Government revisit the present structures of the existing transportation board and its representatives, as well as the issuing of permits, for this leaves much to be desired in the whole system. Finally, we propose that the Minister of Transport appoints one of the retired judges to investigate all grievances which the transport industry is experiencing throughout the country, and that this commission report within three months from the date of being appointed.

Okokugcina-ke, uma kungukuthi lesi siphakamiso asihambisani nale Ndlu, ngifuna ukutshela amalungu ngeculo [Ubuwelewele.] [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Lastly, if the House is against this resolution, I would like to inform members of Parliament through a song … [Interjections.] [Time expired.]]

An HON MEMBER: Wena uqalephi ezindabeni zokucula? [When did you become a singer?]

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Angizukucula kuqala. [I will not start singing now.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, before I call the next speaker to the podium: there are many mini debates carrying on in this House, and the noise level is a bit too high. Please lower your tones and listen to this very important debate.

Mnr J J NIEMANN: Mnr die Voorsitter, Suid-Afrika is siek en sat - keelvol!

• vir die taxigeweld, en daar sal spoedig ‘n einde aan moet kom. Die Minister moet die hoofrol speel in hierdie nagmerriedrama. Wat lê ten gronde van die taxigeweld wat nou al meer as 10 weke aan die gang is? Die vertrapping en die totale miskenning van die beginsel van die vrye mark. Dit is die reg wat elke individu het om self te besluit met watter soort openbare vervoer hy of sy sy of haar lewe wil waag.

Dit is die grondwetlike reg waaroor daardie Minister so hoogdrawend en liries kan raak. Dit is die basiese reg soos dit vervat is in die Handves van Regte, die reg om ‘n eie keuse te maak. Dit is die basiese reg wat elke mens het om by ‘n bushalte te staan en wag op die bus wat jou veilig en teen ‘n tarief wat jy kan bekostig, kan vervoer, sonder om geskiet te word net omdat jy ‘n bus bo ‘n taxi verkies.

Dit is die reg wat elke wetsgehoorsame burger het om sy werk in ‘n vreedsame en veilige omgewing te verrig sonder dat ‘n petrolbom in sy bus gegooi word net omdat hy as bestuurder van die bus besig was om sy werk te doen. Dit is die reg wat elke broodwinner van ‘n gesin het om sy bus veilig te bestuur sonder dat ‘n baksteen deur die voorruit in sy gesig geslinger word. Dit is die basiese reg om in enige gemeenskap te lewe sonder om dag en nag te vrees vir ‘n mens se lewe. Dit is die reg om betyds by jou werk op te daag, die reg om betyds by jou skool op te daag sonder dat ander jou regte misken en vertrap, jou geweld aandoen, jou intimideer en jou in ‘n toestand van vrees laat lewe, jou ouers doodskiet, jou familie wond, jou ‘n weduwee agterlaat om na jou wesies om te sien.

Dit is waarmee die twee taxi-organisasies, Cata en Codeta, besig is net omdat daar nie aan hulle eise voldoen word nie. En wat is die eise? Dat geen bus gedurende naweke in sekere townships mag diens lewer nie. Die taxis wil die alleenreg hê. Dit is waaroor die taxigeweld gaan. Voeg dan hierby dat die Regering die taxibedryf wil reguleer. Dit sal beteken dat hierdie multimiljoenrandbedryf die eerste keer belasting sal moet betaal. Dit sal verder beteken dat geen ``doodkiste op wiele’’ meer onskuldige wetsgehoorsame mense teen vergoeding kan vermoor nie.

In die debat oor die Minister se begrotingspos het ek gepleit dat ons vervoer uit die politieke arena moet haal en die portefeuljekomitee moet uitbrei met kundiges oor die totale vervoerbedryf, en dat daardie komitee saam met die Minister van Vervoer beleid bepaal sodat die geweld in die taxibedryf kan endkry, sodat duisende padsterftes op ons paaie kan endkry, maar nee, hy is horende doof.

Ten slotte wil ek die Wes-Kaapse LUR belas met vervoer loof vir sy eindelose geduld om aan te hou onderhandel en daardeur wetsgehoorsame burgers se eiendom en lewens te spaar. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Mnr J H MOMBERG: Hy’s ‘n ``paloeka’’!

Mnr J J NIEMANN: Die sluiting van die taxistaansplekke kan tot groter chaos lei, maar aan alles kom ‘n einde, ook aan eindelose geduld. Dan sal Cata en Codeta moet pa staan vir die chaos.

Ek hoor hier aan my regterkant die agb lid mnr Jan Momberg sê ek is ‘n ``paloeka’’. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Mnr J H MOMBERG: Nee, nee, ek het nie gesê jy is een nie. Ek het gesê Piet Meyer is ‘n ``paloeka’’!

Mnr J J NIEMANN: As hy gesê het Piet Meyer is ‘n paloeka'', dan kom dit van 'npaloeka’’ af wat dit sê! [Gelag.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr J J NIEMANN: Mr Chairman, South Africa is sick and tired - fed up! - of the taxi violence, and a speedy end will have to be made to this. The Minister should play the main role in this nightmare drama. What is at the bottom of the taxi violence that has been continuing for over 10 weeks? Trampling on and totally disregarding the free market principle. It is the right of every individual to decide on what kind of public transport he or she wishes to risk his or her life.

This is the constitutional right about which that Minister can be so grandiloquent and lyrical. It is the basic right as contained in the Charter of Rights, the right to make one’s own choice. It is the basic right that each person has to stand at a bus stop and wait for the bus that will transport one safely, at a tariff that one can afford, without being shot simply because one prefers a bus to a taxi.

This is the right that every law-abiding citizen has to perform one’s work in a peaceful and safe environment, without a petrol bomb being thrown into one’s bus just because, as a driver of the bus, one was doing one’s job. It is the right that every breadwinner of a family has to drive one’s bus safely, without a brick being thrown through the windscreen into one’s face.

It is the basic right to live in any community without fearing for one’s life day and night. It is the right to arrive at work on time, the right to arrive at school on time, without others disregarding and trampling out one’s rights, acting in a violent manner towards one, intimidating one and causing one to live in a state of fear, shooting dead one’s parents, wounding one’s family, leaving one a widow to care for one’s orphans.

This is what the two taxi organisations, Cata and Codeta, are doing, because their demands are not being met. And what are those demands? That no bus may render a service in certain townships over weekends. The taxis want the monopoly. That is what the taxi violence is about. Add to this that the Government wants to regulate the taxi industry. That will mean that this multi-million rand industry will have to pay tax for the first time. It will also mean that ``coffins on wheels’’ will no longer be able to kill innocent law-abiding people at a charge. In the debate about the Minister’s Vote I pleaded that we should remove transport from the political arena and extend the portfolio committee to include experts from the whole of the transport industry, and that that committee, together with the Minister of Transport, should determine policy so that the violence in the taxi industry could be brought to an end, so that thousands of road deaths could come to an end, but no, he is wilfully deaf.

In conclusion, I want to applaud the Western Cape MEC entrusted with transport for his endless patience in continuing to negotiate and in so doing saving the property and lives of law-abiding citizens. [Interjections.]

Mr J H MOMBER: He’s a palooka.

Mr J J NIEMANN: The closure of the taxi ranks may lead to greater chaos, but everything comes to an end, also endless patience. Then Cata and Codeta will have to take responsibility for the chaos.

I heard, on my right, the hon member Mr Jan Momberg saying that I was a palooka. [Interjections.]

Mr J H MOMBERG: No, no, I did not say that you were one. I said that Piet Meyer was a palooka!

Mr J J NIEMANN: If he said that Piet Meyer was a palooka, then it was a palooka that said so! [Laughter.]]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Chairperson, it is noted with relief that the MEC for transport in the Western Cape has wisely resisted all urgings for him to close taxi ranks in strife-torn Khayelitsha. Evidently this decision was arrived at after consultation with the national Minister of Transport, Mr Dullah Omar, who obviously has greater experience in conflict situations such as that which has developed in this area.

What is the status quo? The manning of roadblocks and tough action with the help of troops have brought relative calm to the area. However, this reduction in violence in the area must never be construed as either some form of peace or a satisfactory resolution of the deep-rooted problems that exist. The forceful suppression of violent action in itself can only become useful if the various stakeholders are simultaneously engaged in constructive dialogue.

A Minister like Mr Omar, whose very Ministry arose from a negotiated settlement which astounded the world, will know that a lasting solution will only be gained through frank and serious talks. It seems evident that the problems that have caused violence in Khayelitsha are similar to those that have manifested themselves in other areas such as parts of Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and Northern Province.

On 26 May 2000, I gave notice of a motion in which I called for all stakeholders to be brought together in a conference to be headed by a politically neutral person of the standing of Archbishop Ndungane. The MECs are seen as stakeholders, and they are unable to avoid being biased. This is what the perception is. Today, the opportunity presents itself for me to repeat this call. It is also an opportune moment for me to ask the Minister of Transport to intercede further with the MEC for transport with the view to creating the environment in which such deliberations can take place.

We do not believe that the IFP’s call with regard to the taxi recapitalisation programme necessarily indicates the correct direction to take. What we would urge is that the means for consultation be extended. It is true that it is because of a breakdown in consultation and an overreliance on the word of Sataco that things have gone wrong. One should engage in consultation and one will be successful.

It must be accepted that such discussions will not necessarily proceed smoothly. Deadlocks and breakdowns can be expected. South Africa is … [Time expired.]

Mr M S BOOI: Mr Chairperson, let us address the issue we have been asked to address, that is, the violence in the taxi industry in the Western Cape. It is just pathetic that Tony Leon has left the House again.

An HON MEMBER: He is the hon Leon.

Mr M S BOOI: Yes, he is an hon member, but he does not understand what I want to talk about.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Carry on with your speech, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr M S BOOI: The issue that I want to raise is that there is no way that the taxi industry or people in Khayelitsha would encourage violence. They would not do so because the people that they stay with are people who have been driven out by poverty from the rural areas of Transkei and Ciskei and forced to come to the Western Cape. That is the bottom line of their thinking, that what brought those people to the Western Cape is poverty. What they are looking for is jobs so that they can feed their families back home. What would make them come to the Western Cape and see how they could spread violence? They would never use the taxi industry as a means to escalate violence. That is what the taxi people are saying.

Every Friday, if anybody from the Transkei has died, they take the responsibility of taking the families back to Transkei and Ciskei because many of the families come from there. It would be quite tragic for them as families to fight and be involved in violence. It is not violence that has brought them to the Western Cape. That is the bottom line on how one should understand the problem.

Why then is one confronted with violence? The problem - this is something that Tony Leon and the DP must understand - is that the answer lies with the coalition. The coalition has not been able to deliver around the Western Cape. The ANC in the Western Cape has consistently been saying to the coalition that they are confronted with the problem of racism. Racism runs quite deep in the Western Cape. How they handle matters and deliver to the various constituencies is very important. The coalition, at this particular moment, has proved again to be irrelevant and has consistently been spreading the theory and thoughts of racism in the Western Cape. It is on the basis of that that they are unable to understand the problem we are confronted with in the Western Cape. Now and then, they call upon the police to come and intervene for no apparent reason.

The MEC in the Western Cape has failed to be decisive and has failed to live up to the moment by confronting the problem, as he has been given the powers, by the national Minister and by the Constitution, to act on this particular matter. He has failed because he cannot interpret his role as an MEC. He cannot identify the functions he is duty-bound to perform in the province. He is now hamstrung in terms of whatever he does to deliver in the black constituency, which the DP and New NP are fighting about.

They are fighting about the African constituency which the ANC leads. We are leading those constituencies. The African people are the leading component in voting for the ANC in this province. That is the struggle that the New NP and the DP is confronted with. What would they do to encroach and make inroads into the constituency? That is what the debate is about. The debate is not about the national Minister intervening to resolve the violence in the Western Cape.

The New NP should be ashamed of shouting here. They have just lost about 39 of their own councillors to the DP. That should be a shame to them. This is the basis for saying that the coalition is confronted with the debate on whether the coalition in the Western Cape is working or not. [Interjections.] The DP, because it does not have the African constituency, and because it does not have the coloured constituency, is now suffering from that. It is holding on and they say to the hon Piet Meyer not to react to the situation but to blame the national Government, because they have this notion that people in the national Government are the only ones who have the God-given power to deliver.

The only problem with the hon Tony Leon is that he has never been able to arrive at the realisation that his party is not in the national Government and it is not going to be able to deliver now. It is up to the ANC to deliver at this particular moment and to use the various national Ministries to deliver to its own constituencies.

That is the thorn in his heart, that the DP is not able to live up to that moment. They continue to think that the people that live in the township, that the people from various areas that come together because of poverty and have come to look for jobs in the Western Cape, will suddenly turn to violence. Why would they fight amongst themselves? What is there for them to gain? They are part of the taxi industry. The coalition is not even taking a step ahead. They cannot even acknowledge that the contract with GAB, the Golden Arrow Bus Service, has been given by the provincial government. Now they cannot move beyond that.

What should the ANC do? The ANC has, throughout, been concerned about its members. It has been concerned about the role that they are playing in this particular province, and that role has always been to make sure that we represent the interests of those who are poor, those who do not have bread at night and those who do not have shelter. That is the bottom line of our relationship with the people who are staying in the squatter communities that form part of our constituencies.

Does the DP have a constituency in Crossroads? They do not. They do not even have a constituency office in the Crossroads constituency. They do not even have a constituency office in Khayelitsha. So they do not understand what we are talking about.

So the infighting between Codeta and Cata is not about these issues. [Applause.] It is about the fact that the DP and the New NP are not successful in winning a constituency for themselves. They are now holding back the MEC, the poor guy from the New NP. When one speaks to the people in the provincial legislature, they say he has a very good heart but that he lacks decisiveness. We hope that he will be told by the New NP that he should be able to take decisions.

What has kept him back and not enabled him to deliver licences to our people out there in the township, whilst 400 permits are in his pocket, is the fact that he is afraid of the DP. The DP have proved, throughout the election campaign, that they are racist by heart and they attach themselves to material and delivery. [Interjections.] They are racist. They know that. I do not have to repeat that. [Applause.]

However, throughout that process, they have proved their racism through their attacks. They were unable to deliver to the constituencies. They were even unable to go and lobby and campaign in the area where we come from, because they do not need the constituency. They do not understand what is happening in the African townships …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, come back to the topic at hand.

Mr M S BOOI: So what I was saying, was that, at the end of the day, the DP and the coalition in the Western Cape are faced with racism. Beyond that racism, they are not able to deliver to our people. The in-fighting is continuing, and they are part of the problem.

The UDM should be ashamed of coming up to this platform again to talk about violence. I am telling them that we should not politicise violence in the Western Cape. We should not politicise what is happening around the taxi industry. Specific reasons were that, even during the elections, they were there to incite our people, continuing to try to hijack them. When Holomisa lost his presence in the ANC, he continuously used the taxi industry for rides and had them take them to meetings, which is an embarrassing situation. They should not come in front here.

That is the problem. That is what we are trying to say as the ANC. Let us find the solution in the provincial government. The provincial government is unable to deliver. The provincial government is not able to give them the permit that they need. The provincial government is not able to decide what they should do with the tax industry, because their relationship with the Golden Arrow Bus Service is the one that is impeding their relationship and how they should view the situation beyond the township.

The coloured community is going on with their lives. They are ferrying people up and down. Why is it that the New NP is not feeling ashamed when they see that type of situation? They should confront it from a practical point, and be able to see that every human being would like to see to it that their family finds bread for itself. This is unlike the situation where, when it is in the black townships, they enjoy and jubilate rather than find solutions. From the onset, even when it was not in Government, the ANC made sure that it appealed to the premier here.

The Premier of the Western Cape has not even stood up for one moment and said to the community of the Western Cape - for those who are complaining about tourism - that this is the problem and this is how we are going to solve it. Morkel has failed many times to even go to the townships. Usually, when there is an incident taking place in any coloured area, one will see Morkel walking up and down.

At this particular moment …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, if you are referring to any members of Parliament, please refer to them as honourable.

Mr M S BOOI: I am sorry. I should say Premier Morkel, but he is not my premier. What I am saying is that he failed at that moment. Even now, we have not seen Premier Morkel taking a few steps to go into the township to say to our people that these are the problems. So, it quite clearly says … [Time expired.] [Applause.] Rev K R J MESHOE: Mr Chairperson, the taxi violence that has plagued the Western Cape for the past few months is both regrettable and unacceptable. The Government of the Western Cape must be reminded that their major responsibility is to enforce law and order, and to ensure that all commuters in this province are able to exercise their right to use the transport of their choice.

Anybody that interferes with that right must be dealt with accordingly. We understand that part of the problem is caused by some leaders of Codeta and Cata, who are issuing permits to some taxi operators from the Eastern Cape, who want to enter the Western Cape market.

It is alleged that some operators pay up to R20 000 to the leadership of these organisations to get permits. This is unacceptable, because neither Codeta nor Cata can guarantee such permits, as only the Local Road Transportation Board has the authority to issue such permits. With the large number of taxis in the area, the Golden Arrow Bus Service is then targeted by those greedy taxi operators who want to monopolise the transport service.

The ACDP calls on the Western Cape government to stop this madness immediately, so that no one will infringe on any passenger’s right to choose their mode of transport. As a solution to this ongoing crisis, I want to propose the following: Firstly, that the Minister of Transport use all his constitutional powers, with immediate effect, to bring order to this region; secondly, that radius-to-route licences be completed as soon as possible, and that new operating licences be issued for a period of only five years at a time; thirdly, that the Ministers of Defence and of Safety and Security, and the National Commissioner of Police help with manpower to crush the rebellion taking place in the taxi industry; fourthly, that taxi owners and war lords be told by all commuters, in no uncertain terms, that if they do not cease their violent behaviour, then their services will not be used in future; fifthly, that taxi owners and war lords publicly denounce violence; and lastly, that all political parties use their influence to help bring peace and stability in the Western Cape. [Time expired.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Chairperson, there is a problem in Khayelitsha. Three people were killed, totally unnecessarily and senselessly. The FF’s sympathy goes out to the families of those people. I really thought that this debate would try to address the serious problems that created this situation, with no place for scoring political points. I was sadly mistaken, because this is happening.

I do not have time to discuss the details of the problem from either the taxis’ side, or Golden Arrow’s side. However, I do know that there is no way that I or the FF can justify or agree with the methods being used to solve this problem. In this House we often hear the words ubuntu'', democracy’’ and ``tolerance’’, and how proud we must be about the Constitution and its values. I see none of these in Khayelitsha at this moment.

I want to quote from Prof K A Busia from Ghana, who wrote in his book entitled Africa in Search of Democracy:

A democracy in the last analysis depends on the character of individual men and women and the moral standards of the community. Rules governing elections may be made; freedoms may be provided in constitutions; and Bills of Right may be passed; they will make arbitrary acts easier to resist publicly, but they will not by themselves secure democracy. There are other rules which are unwritten …

Om onskuldige mense dood te maak, is onaanvaarbaar. Daar kan nooit enige rede daarvoor wees nie. Om petrolbomme te gooi wat busse uitbrand en mense doodmaak, is onaanvaarbaar. Hierdie metodes verskil geensins van wat nou in Zimbabwe gebeur nie, ongeag wie dit ook al wil kritiseer.

As mense vandag in Suid-Afrika taxiprobleme so wil oplos, gaan hulle môre dieselfde metodes gebruik om enige ander probleme waaroor hulle nie hul sin kry nie, op te los. Ek vind in hierdie stadium geen veroordeling van Regeringskant van hierdie metodes nie. Die Uitvoerende Raad van die Wes- Kaap en die Regering van die land durf nie toelaat dat hierdie metodes op die ou end suksesvol is om die probleem op te los nie. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Killing innocent people is unacceptable. There can never be any reason for that. Throwing petrol bombs which burn out buses and kill people is unacceptable. These methods are in no way different from what is currently taking place in Zimbabwe, regardless of whoever may want to criticise them.

If people want to solve South Africa’s taxi problems in this fashion today, then tomorrow they will use the same methods to solve any other problems in respect of which they cannot have their way. At this stage I do not detect any condemnation of these methods from the Government. The Executive Council of the Western Cape and the country’s Government dare not allow these methods to be successful in solving this problem in the long run. [Time expired.]]

Mr G E BALOI: Chairperson, the conflict between taxis and Golden Arrow Bus Service is a long-standing dispute. The conflict involving the taxi associations Cata and Codeta has resulted in incidents of violence and loss of life over the past two months. We cannot live like animals: we are human beings created in the image of God. If one kills one’s brother one kills the image of God.

On 27 May two innocent bus drivers and a taxi driver died, killed by their own brothers and sisters against God’s will. Buyephi ubuntu? [Where is our ubuntu?]

However, we cannot just sit back and fold our arms while they are killing one another. The Government must take decisive steps to curb further loss of life, by implementing some mechanism that will not harm one or the other. That may bring everlasting peace between the two parties.

Closing taxi ranks is not a solution, but fuels the fire. My opinion is that the only solution is to put in place the recapitalisation of the taxi industry, thus ensuring that the taxis also use smart cards and are subsidised, so that taxi fares should be on a par with those of the buses. In other words, they want taxi recapitalisation to be in operation soon.

A Modimo o thuse batho ba rona gore ba lese go bolayana. Fa o atlhola ka tšhaka, o tla atlholwa ka tšhaka. [God helped our people to refrain from killing each other. If you live by the sword; you die by the sword.]

Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, I wish to register the PAC’s observation about the public transport crisis in the Western Cape, especially as it involves the minibus taxis on the one hand, and the Golden Arrow buses on the other hand. It is my contention, following media reports, that the Western Cape transport authorities have abdicated their public responsibility by failing dismally, dragging their feet, pussyfooting and giving the wrong signals to the intransigent parties in the dispute that the Government is afraid.

With this notion they have gone on to cause havoc, violence and murder, breaking the laws of the country with impunity. The threat by MEC for Transport, Piet Meyer, for instance, that he would close down the ranks if violence was not stopped, was irresponsible, especially when he finally backed off. To the ordinary commuter on the street, who is very eager to see Government resolving the crisis, the whole taxi-Golden Arrow saga has become a typical Premier League soccer event. The central Government left it until very late when troops and police from other provinces began showing their presence. Unless the Government, at various levels, shows much sharper teeth to evidently blatant disrespect for our new democratic order, then there will be no purpose and indeed no fun in calling ourselves a Government.

It will be important to organise regular workshops for all the parties involved to teach them that conflict can be resolved peacefully, and also to teach the taxi drivers and bus drivers about democracy, tolerance, the free market and how everyone has the right to compete and buy goods and services from the suppliers that they prefer. It is the taxis and the buses, and the passengers, that are and must be allowed to make inputs in the industries. Taxi drivers have no respect for our democracy and for them to play a meaningful role in our process, it is very important that they reaffirm our democracy and begin to solve problems in a peaceful manner. [Time expired.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Deputy President, hon Ministers, hon members, the bus and taxi industry is the by-product of the sociopolitical decisions that were taken in the apartheid era and those that currently exist in South Africa. The lack of flexibility in the bus and taxi operation system has resulted in unnecessary misunderstanding and violence in the Western Cape and other parts of the country.

To combat the atrocities that continuously surface between the bus and taxi operators, the following practical solutions must be explored. An umbrella body, complemented by sub-organisations, must be established by the mediators or an ombudsman that is affiliated with the transport industry. The formalisation of the organisations will ensure that the rights and privileges of all parties concerned are protected.

The establishment of a union undoubtedly has a crucial role to play in transport issues. The union must be managed by accountable, responsible individuals who are qualified, capable and respected. All professional drivers should be encouraged to join unions.

The taxi and bus drivers must be trained to cultivate a good relationship between official bodies and the public. The systematic upgrading of their motoring skills is essential for the safety of their lives and the lives of other people who depend on their skills, capabilities and qualifications. A culture of dependability, responsibility and general safety must be inculcated amongst all transport owners and drivers.

To prevent accidents and conflict, the allocation and organisation of various routes for public and other forms of transport must be effectively planned and integrated by all role-players. The provision of all necessary facilities and amenities for drivers and passengers will encourage the transport system to operate with maximum efficiency, which in turn will provide maximum benefits for all parties. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, allow me to quote from the Sunday Times of Sunday:

For Maria Swart, Monday May 29 started with a sense of unease. As her husband Jacobus left their home in Kraaifontein outside Cape Town in the predawn darkness to report for work as a driver for Golden Arrow Bus Services, her tension became almost unbearable. On that very Monday, Jacobus Swart became another victim. While waiting at a Delft terminus, he was killed in a hail of bullets and the cab of his bus was then firebombed.

His wife, like Nomawethu Ganuganu, was a widow, and, in all, seven children were left without fathers.

Dit is maar die puntjie van die ysberg, en wat gebeur vandag in hierdie Huis as hierdie tragiese gebeure bespreek moet word? Die ANC gebruik hierdie gebeure om in die aanloop tot die komende verkiesings sy aanslag te begin teen die een groot doring in sy vlees in Suid-Afrika, naamlik die feit dat daar ‘n vierkante millimeter grond in hierdie land is wat nie onder sy totalitêre beheer staan nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Ek daag die ANC uit om enige ander provinsiale regering hier so te kom oopspalk en aan te vat oor die plaasmoorde in die Noordelike Provinsie, oor korrupsie in Mpumalanga of oor die onderwyskrisis in Alexandra. Kom ons los hierdie punte-aantekenry. Die AEB het vrede met hierdie opportunisme. Ons doen ‘n beroep op die Minister vir Provinsiale en Plaaslike Regering om orde oor sake te kry. Daarom het die AEB minister Omar se transformasieplanne gesteun. Ons vra hom om dit te bespoedig.

Wat gebeur op grondvlak? Ek kyk na die eise van die taxibedryf. Hulle eis van die Golden Arrow-busmaatskappy om hulle dienste af te skaal, om hulle tariewe te verhoog en om uit Nyanga en sekere ander woonbuurte weg te bly. Die rede? Omdat die taxibedryf deur ‘n mafia beheer word wat ‘n toegangsfooi vra om deel te wees van die bedryf. Hulle het die mark oorstroom, en ons kry ‘n nuwe soort terrorisme wat onmiddellik aangevat moet word. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [This is only the tip of the iceberg, and what is happening in this House today when these tragic events should be discussed? The ANC is using these events to begin its attack, in the run-up to the coming elections, against the one big thorn in its flesh in South Africa, namely the fact that there is one square millimetre of land in this country that is not under its totalitarian control. [Interjections.]

I challenge the ANC to come here and expose and attack any other provincial government here about the farm murders in the Northern Province, corruption in Mpumalanga or the education crisis in Alexandra. Let us cease this scoring of points. The AEB does not care about this opportunism. We appeal to the Minister for Provincial and Local Government to create order in affairs. That is why the AEB supported Minister Omar’s transformation plans. We ask him to expedite them.

What is happening at grass-roots level? I look at the demands of the taxi industry. They demand of the Golden Arrow Bus Company to scale down their services, to increase their tariffs and to stay out of Nyanga and certain other townships. The reason? Because the taxi industry is controlled by a mafia which requires an entry fee to be part of the industry. They have flooded the market, and we are getting a new type of terrorism that should be clamped down on immediately. [Time expired.]]

Mr M A MANGENA: Chair, in any normal democratic society disputes of one description or another will arise from time to time among different interest groups. There is, therefore, nothing fundamentally wrong with the 10-weeks-old dispute between a bus company on the one hand, and the taxi industry on the other. What is wrong is the manner in which the dispute is being handled. Why are our people treated with so much cruelty and disrespect? Why is a situation allowed to continue in which people are intimidated and forced to walk long distances in order to find transport?

We all saw on TV innocent street vendors being assaulted in the city by people marching to protest against certain aspects of this dispute. We have not heard of any arrests in connection with these assaults. Over the last 10 weeks two bus drivers and a taxi driver have been killed and several other people injured. We have only heard of arrests associated with the latest incident in which two bus drivers were injured. Where are the other arrests?

If this democracy is to work and our people are to regain their dignity and humanity, we should all work towards the stamping out of impunity. Anyone intimidating, harassing, injuring or killing others must know that there will be consequences. Then, and only then, will our democracy work properly. Then different social groups which contend from time to time over this or that issue, will find peaceful solutions. Then we will not have every dispute degenerating into mayhem, and burning and smashing of things. Then, not every dispute about fares, routes, permits and so on, will result in murder, and the creation of widows and orphans.

Enough people have died. We do not want to die any more over some stupid issue of bus and taxi fares and their routes. Argue? Yes. Protest? Yes. Die? No. [Applause.]

Mnu M U KALAKO: Mhlalingaphambili, Sekela-Mongameli namalungu abekekileyo, namhlanje ndifuna ukukhe ndithethe, ndibhekise koosomashishini abakushishino lweeteksi. Ingxaki ibekiwe apha zathetha izithethi ziwulanda umnombo wayo.

Kodwa ke ndifuna ukuthi kubantu bakuthi masingajongi nje ukuba sisuka phi nokuba ezi ngxaki zenziwe yintoni. Konke oko siyakwazi.

Inye nje into emasivane ngayo kukuba ubundlobongela, nomlo awuzi kunceda nto. SinoRhulumente wethu namhlanje osiphetheyo nesimvoteleyo, ongowabantu. Sifuna ukucela kubantu bakuthi, ngakumbi abanini-ziteksi, ukuba bangaliyekeli kubaqeshwa babo, abaqhubi-ziteksi, ishishini labo. Le ngxaki ivela, ubukhulu becala xa abaqhubi-ziteksi bethabathela ezandleni zabo isigqibo malunga nokuba bafuna ukwenzani ngeli shishini leeteksi.

Kodwa ke ndifuna ukutsho okokuba masingaqhathwa ngaba nomgogwana bamaqela ezopolitiko bakhoyo, abaza kuthi xa sinengxaki sisiza apha ePalamente baye kufaka iiflegana zabo ezimdakana phaya phakathi kwethu xa size kuthetha nayo. Abo bantu kufuneka sibazi ukuba iinjongo zabo ziyintoni na. Thina ke siyi-ANC asinangxaki ngokuba kuthiwe apha eNtshona Koloni silwela inkxaso ngobomi babantu. Asikho kuloo nto.

Urhulumente wobumbano lwe-NP ne-DP olawulayo apha eNtshona Koloni bekufanele ukuba abe uthabathe amanyathelo kudala ngale ngxaki, akayenzanga loo nto. Akazi kuyenza kuba sithi bantu bamnyama kwakunye nabantu bebala abafayo kwiindawo zethu. Ukuba le ngxaki ibiqhubeka eminyangweni yabo phaya kooma-Sea Point nakooma-Constantia, ngekukudala baqhuba le nkwenkwana yabo uMeyer ukuba ikhawuleze itsibe inqande lo mlo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Yiyo ke le nto sifuna ukubhekisa kubantu bakuthi sithi, into abayenzayo itya thina. Ngoomama bethu, ngootata bethu noomakhulu bethu abahamba ngeenyawo imigama eminde baye kulinda iibhasi kumgaqo u-N2. Ngabantwana bethu bezikolo abangakwaziyo ukuya ezikolweni baye kufunda. Ngoomakhulu bethu abangakwaziyo ukuya ezibhedlele nabantwana bethu abangakwaziyo ukusiwa ezibhedlele. Kufuneka siyazi loo nto. Masingenzi nje oku kwezaphuselane namakhwenkwanana angaqeqeshekanga.

Olu shishino lubaluleke gqitha. Siyayazi ukuba ngenxa yemizabalazo yabo, abantu baye baluthabathela ezandleni zabo olu shishino. Oonoteksi mabanganiki inkampani yakwa Golden Arrow ithuba lokuba namhlanje ilukhuphe emlonyeni kubo olu shishino. Ukuze bangaweli kuloo mgibe, kufuneka beze kuRhulumente. Ewe sisivile isikhalazo sabo sokuba inkampani yakwa-Golden Arrow ifumana inkxaso-mali babe bona bengayifumani. Ezo zinto ziza kuthi ukuze zixoxeke beze kuMphathiswa weZothutho.

I-NP ne-DP zifanele ukuba zivale umlomo kulo mba. Azazi nokuba kuqhubeka ntoni na lomba beva ngawo koomabonakude. Azinamalungu aphaya kwiindawo ezithwaxwa ludushe loonoteksi, azinabantu baphaya, azinayo nenja nekati kula mimandla. [Kwahlekwa.] Ngebevala nje imilomo kuba Sithi sodwa abantu abafayo phaya. Andiyazi ke ukuba inimba yayaphi na. Abanye babo ingathi abangobazali. Into efunekayo ke kukuba thina bantu balapha eNtshona Koloni, abebala nabamnyama, sibambisane siphume, sizame ukubonisana noonoteksi ukuba le ndlela baqhuba ngayo ayiyondlela eza kusombulula le ngxaki. URhulumente unaso isisombululo.

Andizi kuyimamela nokuyimamela ke enye into ebithethwa ngabanye abafo yokuba masimise le nkqubo yethu. Banjalo ke phofu abantu abangalawuliyo. Umntu uyakwazi nje ukuvuka ebhedini yakhe athi: Ndiza kuthetha oku noku kulaa palamente. Siyalawula ke thina, siphethe ilizwe nobomi babantu. Yonke into engathi iphuma ecaleni ibuzwa kule ANC. Asizi kubamamela nokubamamela abantu abanjengaba sendibakhankanyile. Siza kuqhuba ngenkqubo kaRhulumente, sibabize oonoteksi, sibakhuphe kule dyokhwe yeebhanki. Siza kubanceda ngale nkqubo yoMphathiswa yotyalo-mali nenkxaso-mali kolu shishino,recapitalisation, ukuze baphume bakwazi ukuzimela, bayeke le nto bayenzayo. Siyazi ukuba uninzi lwaba nooteksi balwayo alungobanini beeteksi. Umntu uya kufumanisa ukuba abanye babantu abangabanini beeteksi ngala mapolisa amadlagusha angoongqondo-gqwirha maninzi apha kweli Kapa, ngakumbi kwesaa sitishi samapolisa sase-Bellville. [Kwahlekwa.] Ndiyabona ukuba uMphathiswa kuza kufuneka awujonge lo mba.

Ingxaki esinayo ke kule Ntshona-Koloni, ephuma nasemaphepheni, yeyokuba sineenkuntsela zamapolisa azindlobongela, angamasela abandakanyeka kwezi zinto ziqhubekayo.

Ngoko ke, asinakukwazi ukuthi singathembela kuwo. Masizame ukulungisana thina singabantu, sizame ukwenza izinto, sithabathe izikhalazo zethu. Singamatsha size apha ePalamente, size kuthetha nabaPhathiswa, size kuthetha noRhulumente kodwa masingabulalani bantu bakuthi.

Le mithetho bayichasayo abe-DP esithi ngayo sizame ukususa ezi layisenisi zemipu zigcwele nakumntu wonke nje apha phandle bayichasa kuba besazi ukuba abantu abaza kudubulana sithi kuba ezi zibham bazifaka phaya kuthi ngokuya sasisilwa nabo ukuze sibulalane sodwa. Into ebalulekileyo ke kukuba thina singaweli kuloo mgibe. Masingaqhubeli phambili izinto ezazisenziwa yi-NP nezazisenziwa yi-DP. [Uwele-wele.]

Ndifuna ukubacela abantu … Ndiyamva lo ukhonkothayo okokuba yingqeqana nje ekhonkothayo, engazi nokuba kuqhubeka ntoni sele kubethwa abantu ngapha. Enye into, ndiyabona ukuba bancedakala. Mababulele nje kuba besingekadinwa kukulwa. Ngesikhe sabakatsa kancinci phambi kokuba size apha. [Kwahlekwa.] Babeza kusazi kakuhle. Bancedakala nje.

Kufuneka sazi ukuba indima yabo … (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr M U KALAKO: Mr Chairperson, Deputy President and hon members, I would like to address myself to the business people who are in the taxi industry. A problem was identified and people spoke, arriving at the root of the problem.

Nevertheless, I just want to say to our people: Let us not just look at where we come from and what caused these problems. We know all of that. There is just one thing we must agree on: Violence and fighting will not help at all. Today we have a government of the people, our Government, an authority over us, that we voted for. We want to appeal to our people, especially the taxi owners, not to withdraw from the industry for the sake of the drivers, their employees. This problem arises, for the most part, when the drivers of taxis decide what they themselves want to do with this taxi industry.

However, I want to say let us not be cheated by the present bogus political parties who, when we have a problem and come to Parliament, go and hoist their flags there amongst us as we talk to them. We need to know the objectives of those people. We, as the ANC, have no problem with the allegation that we are striving for support, when this is said because we have saved the lives of people. That is not what we are in favour of.

The coalition government of the Western Cape is supposed to have taken steps to address this problem a long time ago. It did not do so. It is not going to do it because it is we, the black people as well as the coloured people, who are dying in our areas. If this problem was happening on their door-step, in Sea Point or Constantia, they would have pressurised their little boy, Mr Meyer, to rush in and stop that fight long ago. [Applause.] This is why we want to address ourselves to our people and say that what they are doing affects all of us. It is our mothers, our fathers and our grandmothers who are walking long distances to go and wait for buses next to the N2 highway. It is our children who cannot go to school. It is our grandmothers who cannot go to hospital and our children who cannot be taken to hospitals. We must know that. Let us not just act like quibblers and undisciplined children.

This industry is very important. We know that through their struggles, the people took control of the industry. Taxi owners must not give the Golden Arrow bus company a chance today to wrest the industry out of their grasp. In order for them not to fall into that trap they must come to the Government. Yes, we heard their complaint that the Golden Arrow bus company receives funding whereas they do not. For those issues to become debatable they must come to the Minister of Transport.

The NP and the DP should keep their mouths shut on this issue. They do not even know what is happening. They become aware of this issue by watching television. They have no party members in the areas ravaged by the taxi violence; they do not have people there. They have absolutely nothing there. [Laughter.] They should keep their mouths shut because we are the only people who are dying. I now do not know where the pangs of childbirth have gone. Some of them, it seems, are not parents. What is needed is that we of the Western Cape, Coloureds and Africans, must help each other by consulting with the taxi owners and getting them to realise that the way in which they are going about doing things is not the way to solve this problem. The Government has a solution.

I am not going to pay attention to the other things that were said by other men to the effect that we must stop this process. People who are not governing are like that anyway. One gets out of bed and says: I am going to talk about this and that in Parliament. We are governing. We are in charge of the country and the lives of people. For anything that does not seem to be in order the ANC is called to account. We are not going to pay any attention to people like the ones I have mentioned. We will carry on with the programme of Government, inform taxi owners and relieve them of the burden put on them by the banks. We will help them in the Minister’s programme of investment and the financing of the recapitalisation programme so that, when they are through with it, they are independent and can stop what they are doing. We know that most of the taxi people engaged in fighting are not taxi owners. One finds that some owners of taxis are the evil-minded white police in Cape Town, especially those at Bellville police station. [Laughter.] The Minister will have to look into this matter.

The problem we have in the Western Cape, and which is receiving publicity in the press, is that we have shrewd police who are hooligans, thieves who are involved in what is happening. Therefore, we cannot rely on them. Let us try to settle the matter amicably as human beings, try and to do something, and look into the complaints. We can march to Parliament to talk to the Ministers, to talk to the Government. But let us not kill one another.

The laws that they are opposing, through which we are trying to get rid of the firearm licences that are in abundance outside, are being opposed knowing full well that we are the people who are going to shoot at one another because they planted those guns among us, when we were fighting them, so that we could kill one another. The important thing is that we must not fall into that trap. Let us not advance the actions that were perpetrated by the NP and the DP. [Interjections.]

I want to appeal to the people … I can hear the one who is barking. He is just a yapping puppy which does not have a clue why the people are being attacked. The other thing is that, in my view, they got assistance. They should be grateful because we were not yet tired of fighting. We should have given them a beating or two before coming here. [Laughter.] They would have known us well. They were assisted.

We must know that their part …]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member Kalako, please resume your seat. On what point are you rising, sir?

Mr W J SEREMANE: Mr Chairperson, will the hon member take a question?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, will you take a question?

Mr M U KALAKO: Hayi andinakho ukuwuthabatha Mhlali-ngaphambili. [No, Chairperson, I cannot take a question.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! He will not take a question. [Interjections.] Hon member Kalako, please continue.

ILUNGU ELIBEKEKILEYO: Hlala phantsi!

Mnu M U KALAKO: Ngoko ke, kufuneka siyazi into yokuba aba bantu sisebenzisana nabo ngabantu abangenabuntu. … [Uwele-wele.]

Mnu W J SEREMANE: Unobuhlanga mfondini!

Mnu M U KALAKO: Sisebenzisana nabantu abayaziyo … nanko uyakhwaza nangoku. Uxakekile uyakhonkotha. Kuthiwa kuye makakhonkothe. Bathule abanye abakhonkothi. [Kwahlekwa.] Makakhonkothe ke kuba kulwa abantu bakuthi bayabulalana. Abantu abanjalo ke asibahoyi. [Laphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Hon MEMBER: Sit down!

Mr M U KALAKO: We must therefore know that the people with whom we are co- operating are not humane. [Interjections.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Man, you are racist!

Mr M U KALAKO: Co-operate with people whom you know … There he is. He is shouting even now. He is barking. He has been bold to bark. The others are quiet. They are not barking. [Laughter.]. Let him bark while our people are fighting, killing each other. We take no notice of such people. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Mr Chairperson, Deputy President, hon members, I want to begin on a happy note by welcoming to the House today the MEC for transport in the Western Cape, Mr Piet Meyer, who is sitting on the gallery. I welcome him and wish him good luck. [Applause.] Secondly, on an equally happy note, we have representatives of Cata and Codeta who are also in the House, and I want to welcome them, too. [Applause.]

Thirdly, I want to thank hon members who have made some very constructive suggestions and proposals. We may not be able to accept all of them, but the spirit in which they were given is most welcome. However, the odd man out, as usual, is the DP. [Interjections.] It is almost like a skunk; one gets a smell a mile away. Unfortunately, the hon Pillay could not rise above his own subjectivity and the DP’s own problems which it has had over the years. So he comes along, and he is very negative and destructive. I do not mind that, he can be that, as the DP always is. I do not mind that at all.

However, I think we must not allow misconceptions to be created. We must not allow the public to be misled, and I think some of the statements made can have a misleading effect. For example, the hon member speaks of R653 million which has not been spent in the last few years. He creates the impression that the department has not been spending its money. Do members know where most of that money came from? It was money which national Government set aside to assist the Western Cape, in particular, with regard to the Olympic Games. Now, the Olympic Games did not take place and we did not spend that money. We have saved that money, we did not spend it. That is the one thing. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Secondly, the hon Pillay says that we must fill vacant posts so that road safety can be promoted. What the hon member has forgotten to say is that traffic policemen and women and law-enforcement officers are not employed by national Government. They are employed by the very government that he is trying to protect, ie the Western Cape government, and other provincial and local governments. They are employed by those levels of government.

I agree that there is a shortage of law-enforcement officers. We need more of them. I support the Western Cape government and other provincial governments in their efforts to employ more people, but we should not make statements which can have a misleading effect. Perhaps we should not waste too much time on that.

I have listened very carefully to this debate, and I want to say that Government is very concerned about the violence, the killings, the intimidation and the terror to which our commuters are being subjected. I want to say that we cannot allow it, and we will not allow it. We will do everything in our power to ensure that law and order is restored, that peace prevails in our communities and that our commuters’ rights are respected.

What are the rights of our commuters? Our commuters have the right of choice. They have the right to decide whether they want to use the train, the bus and, I hope, the minibus taxis and all other forms of transport. We as Government want to ensure that our public transport system works effectively. We need our trains, we need our buses and we need our minibus taxis.

Today, I want to pay tribute to the minibus-taxi industry. More than 60% of the people of our country rely on the minibus-taxi industry to transport them to and from work, to take people to funerals and to take people to the various destinations to which they have to go. It is an industry which has arisen under very difficult conditions. It is a totally unsubsidised industry. Those who operate minibus taxis have empowered themselves by their own bootstrings and through their own hard work. Therefore there are good things about the minibus-taxi industry, and we need to preserve and promote those good things.

We need to take steps to ensure that economic empowerment takes place so that the minibus-taxi industry can flower, so that they can work themselves into becoming a larger cake, so that we can end the monopoly which exists at certain levels, and so that they can participate in the subsidies. Those are some of the objectives towards which we are working.

The recapitalisation programme is part of a bigger programme of transformation, transforming the minibus-taxi industry and the public transport system as a whole, so that our commuters can be effectively served and affordable transport is provided for our people. That is why the current problem in the Western Cape and in other parts of our country must be resolved quickly.

Our bottom line, therefore, is the following: Firstly, we cannot have violence or intimidation, and everything must be done to restore law and order and establish peace. I am in constant interaction with the MEC for transport in the Western Cape and, indeed, other MECs. We have a framework within which we are working, and we are in agreement about the way in which we should go. I have also spoken to the Minister of Safety and Security, Mr Steve Tshwete, who is in the House, and who, himself, has committed the police to ensuring that law and order is established and that peace prevails. That is the first bottom line - an end to all violence and intimidation. The second bottom line is about respecting the rights of our commuters. Firstly, their right of choice, which I have mentioned, and, secondly, their right to live in freedom from violence, intimidation and force, which have been characteristics of the situation in which we live. All these must be eliminated.

In so far as the current problems in the Western Cape are concerned, the hon Jeremy Cronin has spoken about them and I do not need to repeat what he said. The hon Kalako has also made an earnest appeal, which I support. There have been, and are, similar problems in other parts of the country. One big problem is the completion of the process of legalisation of taxis. That process must proceed speedily. I support the call for that. We will do what we can to ensure that it happens. Later this month there will be a meeting between all the MECs for transport and I. We will discuss the issue of legalisation and other problems which have been raised in respect of the public transport system in order to ensure that we deal with such problems in a systematic manner.

I want to appeal to all parties to ensure that we end the violence and restore normality - if I can call it that - in the sense that we transfer the forum in which we resolve our problems from the street and from violence to the forums which have been created. The forums are there and I am confident that we can resolve the problems.

Then there is the question of the Local Road Transportation Board, an issue which Cata and Codeta have also raised. I am very happy to note that the MEC for transport, Mr Piet Meyer, has agreed to address that problem. I hope that it can be done soon.

In conclusion, I believe that we have made great progress in the process of transforming the minibus-taxi industry and the public transport system. There are hiccups and problems will arise as we go along, but we must resolve those problems together and ensure that the transformation programme succeeds. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr P A GERBER: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  39 New NP councillors have joined the DP; and

   (b)  the coalition government in the Western Cape was entered into by
       the DP for opportunistic reasons;

(2) reminds the New NP that -

   (a)  the DP is exploiting it as a means of gaining power in the
       Western Cape; and

   (b)  this poaching of New NP members confirms the widely held public
       opinion that the DP is leading the New NP on a long ride into
       oblivion; and

(3) calls on the New NP to form a government in the Western Cape based on the will of the majority of the people, which gave the ANC and the New NP together more than 80% of the vote.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the decision by 65 office bearers, mayors and councillors from the ANC, New NP, UDM and others to join the DP today;

(2) believes that this is the largest, single group of public representatives to join a political party; and

(3) recognises that this is a vote of full confidence in the DP as the only viable, principled opposition to the power-hunger and mismanagement of the ANC at all levels of government.

[Applause.]

Mrs I MARS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) acknowledges that the idea of a travelling ministerial committee of investigation into the problems affecting our senior citizen is commendable;

(2) expects that the problems identified by these investigations will be addressed without delay; and

(3) requests that -

   (a)  officials identified as being abusive to the elderly be
       suspended;


   (b)  special efforts be made to inform the elderly as to their rights
       and the process of pension application and delivery; and


   (c)  senior citizens be advised well in advance with regard to
       reregistration and be assisted by dedicated personnel. Prof S M MAYATULA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the report by the review committee on Curriculum 2005, which is to be implemented within the broad outcomes-based framework;

(2) reaffirms the ANC’s commitment to outcomes-based education as the only vehicle to create an education system that liberates human potential and enables our citizens to take their rightful place in all spheres of life;

(3) welcomes the report as an important contribution to education policy and practice in South Africa, especially the openness and forthrightness in which it has been conducted; and

(4) wishes to reassure parents, teachers and pupils that the implementation of this programme will not cause disruption but that, instead, it will enhance the education of our children. [Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move:

That the House -

(1) agrees that the Department of Foreign Affairs should eventually reflect the population composition of the Republic of South Africa;

(2) takes cognisance of the fact that on 30 September 1997 Africans already constituted 40% of the total workforce of the Department of Foreign Affairs in comparison with 52,8% whites, whilst females made up 47% of all employees in comparison to 50% males; and

(3) therefore regrets the announcement that white males who served the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Government and South Africa well are going to be sidelined.

[Interjections.] Chief N Z MTIRARA: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) expresses its alarm at the loss of jobs in the farming sector as reported recently in a document called Employment Trends in Agriculture in South Africa;

(2) notes that the cause of the continuous job losses is constructive evictions, as indicated by the Deputy Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, Dirk du Toit;

(3) notes further that the latest statistics on farming sector employment trends show that the number of people working permanently and part- time on farms throughout the country dropped from 1,2 million in 1988 to 914 000 in 1996, and is still decreasing;

(4) is alarmed at the imbalances between commercial and subsistence farms, as the latter is less than 2 ha of a cultivated area in the former Bantustans while the average commercial farm in the so-called white areas is about 3 000 ha; and

(5) calls on the Government to address these imbalances by expediting the land reform programme in South Africa in order to avoid the land problems that are currently being experienced in Zimbabwe.

Mr M K LEKGORO: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  more than 18 million people have registered for the coming
       elections;

   (b)  this constitutes about 80% of our voting population; and

   (c)  people apply for identity documents, but that there are those
       who do not collect them from Home Affairs offices;

(2) recognises that local government elections deal directly with issues affecting ordinary people;

(3) calls on all people who have applied for identity documents to go to the offices of the Department of Home Affairs to collect them; and

(4) encourages those who have not yet registered to do so in order to strengthen our democracy.

[Applause.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the PAC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  with disgust that 1 983 children between the ages of 14 and 18
       are being kept in Pollsmoor prison;

   (b)  that keeping children in Pollsmoor prison is a violation of
       sections 12, 28 and 35 of the Constitution; and

   (c)  that the DP-New NP coalition in the Western Cape legislature is
       closing down industrial schools and reform schools in the name
       of so-called transformation;

(2) recognises that these political parties are playing political games with the welfare of our children; and

(3) calls on Helen Zille immediately to instruct these institutions to accommodate these children.

Mr G E BALOI: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with appreciation the strides that South African institutions continue to make in the world in that the Independent Electoral Commission was awarded the prestigious Computerworld Smithsonian award for its powerful use of technology in the 1999 national election on Monday, 5 June 2000, in Washington DC;

(2) notes that the IEC was short-listed as one of five finalists, four of whom were American, in the government and nonprofit organisations category for the year 2000; and

(3) lauds and commends Dr Brigalia Bam, the IEC chairperson, Prof Mandla Mchunu, the chief electoral officer, all members of the commission and South Africans in general for having made this possible.

[Time expired.]

Mr K M N GIGABA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the current stand-off between the management and students of the University of Durban-Westville, which has resulted in the disruption of learning for three weeks, violence and the loss of at least one life;

(2) believes that the ongoing violence and destruction of property will not resolve the current impasse at the institution;

(3) strongly condemns the violence and destruction of property at the institution;

(4) supports the university council and Director-General of Education in their efforts to facilitate discussions between the management committee and the student representative council in order to search for a solution to this problem; and

(5) calls on all stakeholders to engage in credible and peaceful negotiations.

[Applause.]

Mr N J CLELLAND: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay and disgust the decision by Nocsa not to allow the men’s hockey team to participate in the Sydney Olympics;

(2) further notes that this team qualifies for the Olympics on two grounds -

   (a)  it has every prospect of finishing in the top nine places and is
       even a medal contender; and

   (b)  it has four members on the team who are from previously
       disadvantaged communities;

(3) recognises that hockey is an amateur sport and that the major motivation for players is not money, but the opportunity to represent their country at the Olympics;

(4) acknowledges the harm that this decision has done to hockey in general and men’s hockey in particular in South Africa;

(5) calls on Nocsa to set aside its pride and prejudice and to reconsider this decision; and

(6) endorses the DP’s decision to seek legal counsel on whether constitutional rights have been breached in this case, and to act on such advice.

[Interjections.]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) congratulates the Minister of Health for the provision of effective telemedicine facilities to 30 sites in South Africa;

(2) calls on the Minister of Communications to prioritise the provision of the broad-band capacity required to enable this cost-effective service to be expanded; and (3) proposes to the Minister of Health that she investigates the addition of electro-cardiograms to the facilities already provided.

[Applause.]

Mr A R AINSLIE: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Department of Trade and Industry has unveiled the second
       phase of its motor industry development programme; and

   (b)  this programme is bringing to an end the delays that frustrated
       manufacturers and the uncertainty about whether to plough more
       money into production facilities;

(2) applauds such sensible industrial policy measures by the Department of Trade and Industry; and (3) calls on the role-players to support this initiative as it will further boost our economy.

[Applause.]

Adv A H GAUM: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) rejects Nocsa’s stubborn persistence in its decision to bar the South African men’s hockey team from the Olympic Games later this year;

(2) regards this decision as flagrant discrimination against the men’s hockey team, in spite of their obvious merit after their recent brilliant performances;

(3) rejects Nocsa’s fortune-telling that the team does not stand a chance to end amongst the first nine teams in Sydney;

(4) believes that Nocsa’s decision is in conflict with Minister Balfour’s declared policy that national teams should be selected on merit;

(5) appreciates Balfour’s criticism of Nocsa’s decision, but is disappointed that he is not willing to exercise his policy, because he is apparently, like President Mbeki, not willing to act firmly against ANC comrades such as the Ramsamys and Mugabes; and

(6) calls on the men’s hockey team to refer this discriminatory practice to the Human Rights Commission and on Minister Balfour to change his stance and act decisively.

[Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Miss O N MNDENDE: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) reaffirms the equality before the law of suspected spouse murderers, whether a wife or a husband, and irrespective of whether the motive was suspicion of infidelity or incest;

(2) notes the case of Mr Otto Shezi of Freedom Park squatter camp, Gauteng, who, after his conviction for the murder of his wife, sees himself as a victim;

(3) further notes that this person may be considered for parole only six months after starting to serve his five-year sentence;

(4) displays more sympathy towards women whose children are forced to suffer these immoral acts by their fathers, uncles or brothers; and

(5) condemns all these immoral acts, whether committed by men or women.

REFERRAL OF REQUEST REGARDING APPOINTMENT OF NATIONAL YOUTH COMMISSIONERS TO JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, subject to the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, the request from the Minister in The Presidency regarding the appointment of Commissioners to serve on the National Youth Commission be referred to the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons for consideration in terms of section 4 of the National Youth Commission Act, 1996 (Act No 19 of 1996).

Agreed to.

              NATIONAL YOUTH COMMISSION AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson and hon colleagues, I commend this Bill to the House, in the interest of the smooth functioning of arrangements and the attainment of sustainable youth development in South Africa. It is a critical area of responsibility for the democratic Government of this country. Workable arrangements, if sought and achieved through consensus rather than conflict, will be an investment in the future wellbeing of the nation.

The essence of the intention of this measure is contained in section 7A, in which it is said that there shall be a sound working relationship between the commission and the various provinces and their structures dealing with youth development. This is what is sought, and the legislative step recommended today follows a process of serious consultation to this end.

There is a need to have a uniform approach to the development of our young men and women in South Africa. But care must be taken not to be too prescriptive, because provincial initiative and creativity should not be smothered but allowed to flourish. Our minds must be tidy, yes, but not overly so.

It is a fact that some provinces have set up youth commissions, and others have not. Some have set up structures such as subdirectorates and/or have appointed an MEC for Youth Affairs. Provinces might well have their own particular way of handling matters, as long as these fit in with the broad national framework and intentions to enhance youth development.

The practical step proposed in this measure is to do away with the system of part-time youth commissioners, both those nominated by premiers for presidential appointment and those who were appointed on the basis of the nomination process in Parliament. It has been found that this arrangement did not work particularly successfully. For instance, there has been a measure of distance between the provincial and national efforts, and provincial representatives on the National Youth Commission, in some cases, have not enjoyed the support of provincial structures and, indeed, in some cases, were not even attached to statutory youth development structures in their provinces. There is little value in having commissioners who are excluded from essential activity at one or another level.

What will be brought about, as a study of the amendment will show, is a streamlining in the number of national youth commissioners, which will lead to financial savings which can be redirected to programme work instead. This means that money which is saved will be available for concrete programmes, rather than being spent on the proliferation of national and provincial full-time and part-time commissioners. It is worth commending this approach which seeks economy and reprioritising.

It is also specifically laid down in the Bill that the relationship between national and provincial structures should be sound. To achieve this, for instance, minutes of the National Youth Commission must be submitted to provincial commissions and to MECs for youth affairs. And I would appeal to those engaged in the new, streamlined operation to seek a real spirit of accommodation and not just a formal stance of co-operation and information exchange.

I might mention that I would be most happy should Parliament continue to play an active part in this whole matter of seeking the best possible structures for youth development in the interests of smooth relationships. To this end, I should be happy to receive ideas and proposals from all parties in Parliament, and I firmly commit myself to giving serious consideration to these. If this means that we shall have to amend national legislation again, then let us do so.

This is not a closed matter, and I would like to appeal to those parties that have indicated that they are unhappy with the amendment to rethink their position, in the light of my remarks, and to vote for the amendment proposed today. I should stress that this is not a party-political issue, but a cross-cutting issue which should continue to engage all of us. We want to have Parliament and the provinces behind us, because a national consensus on youth is the way to deal with this matter. Let us be among the nations that really love the young because, as someone once wrote: ``Those who love the young best stay young the longest.’’

I propose accordingly. [Applause.]

Ms H I BOGOPANE: Chairperson, hon Ministers, members of the House, my task today is a very simple one compared to some of the others that I have had at this podium. My aim is literally to give an overview, as we effect this amendment, as the Minister has said, just to remind the House of the successes of the National Youth Commission, to enable us to look at the kind of structure we are talking about, notwithstanding the fact that each and every structure we establish also has weaknesses. The establishment of the National Youth Commission by former President Nelson Mandela represents an important milestone, not only for youth, but also for our country as a whole.

The inauguration of the commission is a cause for celebration and renewed commitment to the development of youth in this country. It is a celebration, because for the first time in the history of South Africa, the aspirations, needs and conditions of youth continue to be recognised and articulated through a major policy initiative. It is a cause for renewed commitment, because if the vision and strategies outlined by the Act are to become a reality, we must commit ourselves to work even harder to create better opportunities for young people in this country.

In the past, the apartheid state violated not only the rights and opportunities of young people through its repressive and discriminatory policies, it also ignored the special needs and concerns of the youth. Young people were left to find their own way in a divided and volatile society to varying degrees, brutalised as master and servants alike. Now, led by the National Youth Commission and within the context of our new democracy, youth across the country and across the racial divide have actively participated and continue to participate in informing the activities of the National Youth Commission.

These amendments to the Bill continue to outline the vision for the critical role youth continue to play in our society. Above everything else, the youth must utilise the opportunities that freedom offers, to develop themselves at the same time as they contribute to the reconstruction and development, reconciliation and rebuilding of our country.

Let me take this opportunity to share with the House some of the successes of the National Youth Commission. Amongst others, there was the consultative development and completion of the National Youth Policy ahead of the year scheduled to do it. Another example is the establishment of the interdepartmental committee on youth affairs as a mechanism to co-ordinate the youth programmes of 38 Government departments and agencies.

The pioneering national youth information services were established, comprising a tollfree national youth line and an Internet website. The foundation was laid for the establishment of national youth services through the development of the White Paper on National Youth Services, which will be introduced to Cabinet in due course.

The young positive ambassadors project was established, which involves young people living with HIV/Aids in an extensive peer communication programme. A national youth economic participation strategy was developed in partnership with the Department of Labour and Ntsika Enterprises. The young prisoners’ programme was piloted in three prisons. This is a satellite education project, in partnership with Orbicom, aimed at empowering young prisoners with business and life skills beyond the limitations of the prison.

The National Youth Commission also played a prominent role in the 1999 election, ensuring that more youths registered for the election. Another achievement is ensuring the provision of information, training and capacity- building programmes for youth organisations.

The National Youth Commission continues to take responsibility for the managing and staging of South Africa’s official National Youth Day events on 16 June. Allow me to inform the House of different activities that lead up to this important day for young people, and also to extend a warm invitation to members to participate and support the youth. The following activities are planned. We have the launch of Jikeleza, which is a youth road show that will take place on 9 June at Inkandla stadium in KwaZulu- Natal. As we believe that a healthy body houses a healthy mind, we will have a youth fun run on 10 June in Pietermaritzburg in KwaZulu-Natal.

We will also have a memorial service at Regina Mundi in Soweto, Gauteng, on 11 June, to mark, as we always do, the special and most important role the youth played on 16 June. We will also have an HIV/Aids youth indaba on 13 and 14 June in Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, where young people will re-examine their role and their participation in the struggle against HIV/Aids. On the actual day, 16 June, we will invite members to join us as we march, as young people, and participate in a rally, whilst at the same time launching a very important book written by young members of this community in KwaZulu- Natal.

We would like to reiterate that youth development cannot be left to the youth alone. Every one of us, young and old, poor and rich, black or white, man or woman, mothers and fathers, and parents - every South African in this country, has a crucial role to play in ensuring the implementation of youth development strategies, policies and programmes.

We must continue to recognise the contribution made and which continues to be done by young people in this country. We must build upon the imaginations, energies, vibrancy and talents of young people, as we are the assets of this country, tomorrow’s leaders - this country’s future.

I therefore call on the House to accept the amendments to this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr M L DA CAMARA: Chairperson and hon members, the DP regrettably cannot support this amending Bill, not necessarily because we disagree with its contents, but because of the ad hoc basis on which this Bill has been presented to Parliament. [Interjections.]

Furthermore, it does not matter what amendments are made to the Act, because the facts remain the same. The fact is that the commission itself is completely inconsequential to the lives of South Africa’s youth. The manner in which this Bill has proceeded through the committee exposes the Government and the ANC’s contemptuous regard of all young people in South Africa.

The Government itself seems to have a low regard for the importance of its own commission in that it does not think that this commission warrants any discussion or deliberations in Parliament. The fact that the commission is the Government’s only response to the crisis facing many young people in South Africa today shows that the Government lacks the imagination or the ability to listen to and to address the issues facing young people. The commission has spectacularly failed to address some of the most important issues facing young people, namely HIV/Aids and unemployment.

The commission’s response to HIV/Aids has been to waste taxpayers’ money on overpriced conferences and on pasting illegible posters in the most unsightly places, such as dust bins. [Interjections.] It is arrogant for Government to suggest that the commission can seek to solve the unemployment crisis amongst young people in South Africa when the commissioners themselves lack the relevant skills and experience to make the commission a viable institution. This is the reason that it constantly needs to outsource its own functions.

However, as the DP is a party that offers alternative and practical solutions, the DP proposes that the entire National Youth Commission Act be repealed. [Interjections.] It is only when this is done that realistic and bold plans of action can be undertaken, with the issues that are preventing the unleashing of the potential of our youth, and can be earnestly addressed. The motivation for this action is the commission’s work, or rather, the lack thereof. A case in point is their policy, goals and objectives document, which can be found on their website. I took the opportunity to read this document and found that it was sorely lacking in terms of action and actual programmes.

The problems are stated and the desired outcomes are well articulated, but there is no mention of any programmes which would result in the desired outcomes that are mentioned. To put this into context, it has cost taxpayers R7 million a year to tell young people what they already know - they do not have jobs. [Interjections.]

What is more shocking is that the budget has now been increased by 38% to over R10 million. Unfortunately, increasing the funding will not result in an increase in productivity or results if the commission continues the act as it does. The fact is, since its inception, the commission has failed to draw up a national youth action programme. Sadly, this means that in four years and after millions of rands have been spent, the youth in this country is in the same position as it was when the commission was founded. Surely, this is unacceptable.

It has been nearly five years, and the impact of the commission on young people’s lives is absolutely zero. The general consensus is that the National Youth Commission has done nothing for the most vulnerable young people in our society. The commission is not even reaching its own target market. Only those who can access the Internet … [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Are you rising on a point of order?

Mr S D MONTSITSI: Yes, Chairperson. Will the hon member take a question? Mr M L DA CAMARA: No, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: No, the hon member will not take a question. Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr M L DA CAMARA: The fact of the matter is that the commission is not reaching its own target market. Only those with Internet access can access the information. Many young South Africans do not even have a computer, let alone access to the Internet. Many young South Africans have not even heard of the National Youth Commission. They do not even know it exists. [Interjections.] Like Nero, the commission and the ANC-led Government is playing its fiddle while Rome burns, or, in our case, while our youth find themselves in crisis. The facts speak for themselves.

Only one in 10 matriculants will find employment or have the opportunity to improve their education - only one in 10. As little as 30% of graduates will find work within five years of the completion of their studies. This has got to such a state that young people have lost hope in the country of their birth, to the extent that they want to emigrate. Those who can afford it are planning to do so … [Interjections] … and those who cannot rue the fact that they cannot afford to do so. [Interjections.]

It is time to listen to the youth of South Africa. It is time for the ANC Government to stop seeing the youth as a problem which needs to be dealt with. Let us rather look at our young people as assets with which we will build prosperity in our country. These assets need our time and investment.

The DP has put forward a programme that will massively address the most pressing issue of unemployment. [Interjections.] This programme will facilitate the employment of more than 2,3 million young people in South Africa in a period of five years. If the Government is really serious about this issue - and I am glad that the hon the Minister says he is listening and is looking for solutions - it must undertake plans of action of this magnitude and which are this courageous and bold.

In conclusion, the DP does not support this Bill. [Interjections.] However, we do support South Africa’s youth and we challenge the Government and the ANC to follow our lead and make the business of youth the business of Government. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Rev K M ZONDI: Chairperson … [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, keep quiet, please. You are making noise. Give the members a chance to make their presentations at the podium.

Rev K M ZONDI: Chairperson, after listening to the previous speaker, it becomes quite obvious that it will take us a long time in this country to gravitate to a point where we become a nation which shares common values, especially on such serious matters as the issue of youth. [Interjections.]

Mrs M L NGWENYA: He is bourgeois! [Laughter.]

Rev K M ZONDI: The other thing is that it seems quite obvious that we come from different backgrounds. Those of us who bring into this Parliament an experience of deprivation cannot share the sentiments that were expressed here. The establishment of the National Youth Commission to us signalled a very important consideration that the Government and this Parliament had about the role of the youth in our society. It indicated the seriousness with which we, in this Parliament and the Government, regarded this important segment of our society.

To us, the National Youth Commission has had a couple of years running. The commissioners took their task with the seriousness it deserved, and set out to mount programmes that were designed to constitute very important interventions in the numerous issues that face the youth of our country on an ongoing basis. The work of the Youth Commission is there for all to see. It has been a very important effort seeking to address very complicated, urgent problems and challenges that confront the youth of our country.

Even though the National Youth Commission has succeeded in making impressive strides, it has become necessary for provinces to take up their share of the responsibility in matters of the youth. The advent of the National Youth Commission triggered a movement that saw province after province establishing its own youth commission and other structures that are to do with youth development initiatives. There then arose a need for co-operation and co-ordination between the National Youth Commission and the provinces.

The Bill that we are considering now seeks to establish this co-ordination and further streamlines the National Youth Commission into a leaner, but more effective and representative, structure. It is important, therefore, that we should give our consent to the passage of this Bill, as this will help usher in a new era in the life of the National Youth Commission. The provincial structures will also benefit from the new arrangement, in that there will now be a streamlined process of accessing vital information on the workings of the commission in a regular fashion.

We hope that this will go a long way to enhancing the effectiveness of the National Youth Commission. We need strong and effective structures that will be able to deal with the numerous problems that face and confront the youth of our country today. The commission faces daunting challenges to help co-ordinate and speed up delivery on serious matters affecting the youth of our country.

What, for example, the speaker from the DP may take as readily available information which the youth already understands … I do not know where that is happening, because where we move, there are immense problems of disseminating information. So what the Youth Commission has been able to do was only to scratch the surface of the real problem that we have.

Those of us who are in touch with the youth sector can testify that the work of the commission has begun to have a positive effect on the various structures of the youth in our country. The leadership of the National Youth Commission is commended for its efforts in ensuring that the commission stays on course in terms of its mandate. We therefore support this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr J DURAND: Mr Chairperson, the New NP has serious objections pertaining to the content of this Bill … [Interjections] … and the procedure that was followed to steamroller it through the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons.

According to a draft resolution that was tabled in this House on 12 May 2000, this Bill was referred to the joint committee for consideration and report. The draft resolution stipulates that the Joint Rule 167 applies to the committee for the purpose of the consideration of the Bill. This Rule allows the committee to arrange its business in such a manner that interested persons and institutions be given an opportunity to comment on the Bill referred to it.

Although we suggested that public hearings should be held on a Bill as important as this one, this proposal was wiped off the table by the ANC. The only institution that was allowed to make representations was the National Youth Commission, and it appeared that the joint committee considered its deliberations with the Youth Commission and the commission’s assurance that it consulted some people on the Bill to be adequate.

It is our view that the joint committee has shown disregard for public opinion by not engaging in meaningful consultation with relevant stakeholders and interested parties. It is clear to us that the committee was simply interested in going through the motions of adopting a Bill already approved by Cabinet, without consideration for the due process provided by the Rules of Parliament. This Bill has become nothing more than a Cabinet instruction that has been rubber-stamped by the joint committee, and which is now expected to be rubber-stamped by Parliament.

Although the National Youth Commission said that it consulted relevant stakeholders on the content of this Bill, the New NP has discovered that the Western Cape representative on the commission was excluded from the designing, conceptualisation and drafting process. The statement in the memorandum to the Bill that provincial representatives on the National Youth Commission were consulted on the drafting of the Bill is therfore untrue. [Interjections.]

In addition to this, although the committee agreed to have a second meeting on 26 May to allow further deliberations and considerations in order to entertain possible amendments advanced by political parties, this meeting was postponed at very short notice and without explanation to 5 June for voting. Obviously, no opportunity was given for discussing proposals on further amendments. The New NP was consequently afforded no opportunity to propose mechanisms to create meaningful participation of provinces in the commission’s activities.

According to the Bill, the restructured National Youth Commission will exclude the current nine provincial commissioners from its midst. This is almost the equivalent of abolishing the National Council of Provinces because provincial representation at national level is eradicated. We believe that this will have a negative impact on the relationship between the commission and provinces, particularly because provinces will in the process be excluded from the designing and conceptualisation of national youth policy and strategic initiatives, and only be informed of decisions taken by the national commission.

The New NP cannot support a call upon this House to simply endorse executive decrees without proper consultation. We cannot support any attempt to erode the effective participation of provinces in the designing and policy and law-making processes with regard to issues of national importance, especially when such initiatives impact on provinces directly. We therefore cannot support this Bill. [Interjections.]

Miss O N MNDENDE: Mr Chairperson, hon members, I am not surprised that the DP does not support this Bill, because after graduating here, their youth go abroad because they are not committed to this country. [Interjections.] [Applause.] At the same time, those who live in this country do so behind high walls, as they are upper class. I am also not surprised about the New NP stance, because it is the South African youth that has liberated this country from the apartheid of the NP. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The South African youth has been regarded as the vanguard of the struggle against apartheid. Therefore the promotion of youth activities in our new democracy is a very wise decision. The future of any country is reflected in the nature of its youth and the way it has been moulded and has moulded itself into becoming future leaders, leaders who will participate not only in local activities and development, but also in broader and global issues.

The visibility and interaction of this section of human development with other members of the community will not only encourage active participation, but also encourage individuals to strengthen themselves in order to work towards constructive relationships with other sectors of the community. Youth development and active participation in all sectors of human life empower the community with new ideas which, when combined with the wisdom and experience of open-minded people and informed adults, contribute to building a moral and balanced society.

The National Youth Commission Amendment Bill will ensure that the structures at provincial level become more active, vocal and committed. The successes and failures of this commission will depend on how they relate to the grass roots - the grass roots that, unfortunately, these other parties do not recognise. The commission should encourage informed and active participation of all individuals at all levels of their structures across racial and gender lines. History and experience differ and all those different aspects should be consolidated to form one entity that aims to develop the structure. That is why our history and their history is different and that is why they do not recognise everything that we are doing here.

In promoting effective co-ordination of services for youth development, it will be important that the commission not only ends in consultation with the provincial chairpersons and members of the executive council, but that commission members should also avail themselves of the opportunity to participate in some youth activities so that they are not seen as a superior and elite group. They must be part of the experiences of those they represent at grass-roots level. A member of the commission should, from time to time, attend the provincial meetings so as to clarify some reflected issues. So, all in all, the UDM supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairman, the ACDP supports the Bill with the caveat that the commissioners are given the capacity to deal with the issues and, secondly that the process is transparent and that the commissioners themselves are accessible to the communities so that they can make an input as to policy direction. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, the youth of this country is an asset that has to be nurtured and prepared for greater responsibilities in life. Some of us come from a background in which we had nothing except ourselves and our children and, hence, our slogan has always been: Re na le rona. [We have ourselves.] Hence, we realise that it is very important to use the Youth Commission as an institution in which children or young people can learn the trade of going about life. We accept it as a training place for leadership, because it gives those serving it a sense of accountability and, according to it, they come to know that if they do not use the funds properly, right from their youth, they will have problems in life. The role and the duties of the commission should be clearly set out. We owe it to the people of this country that whichever structure or commission is put in place, at a cost to the public, must address the needs of the populace. It is appreciated that at the end of the day it has become clear that it is not big numbers of people who serve on the commissions who get the work done. We appreciate that the presidency realises that fewer people can be representative and do the work. It is also very much appreciated that the commission itself recommended its rightsizing. The commission has to be slim and trendy, and retain a figure that will indicate that they are going somewhere in a country that is deprived of money. It will be appreciated if the provincial youth commissions could be in the same shape, that is, in the instances in which there are commissions.

The UCDP supports the Bill. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs M S MAINE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, section 3(f) of the National Youth Commission Act 19 of 1996 mandates the National Youth Commission to promote uniformity of approach by all organs of the state, including provincial governments, to matters relating to the youth. Section 3(h) further puts the mandate on the National Youth Commission to co- ordinate the activities of the various provincial government institutions involved in youth matters and to link those activities to the integrated youth policy.

As much as we would like to see an integrated approach to youth development, section 3(f) and (h) of the Act impedes this objective. It places more compulsion on the premiers to ensure that they establish provincial youth commissions. This has impacted negatively on youth development at provincial level. Provinces like the Western Cape have flatly refused to establish provincial commissions. They are not even paying lip service to youth development. [Interjections.] The Western Cape has only gone as far as appointing a person responsible for youth affairs, whatever that means. There has been no dedicated effort, by the premier or the MEC responsible for youth affairs, to ensure effective youth development programmes.

Go tlhabisa ditlhong gore mošwa a ka ema fa, me a bua kgatlhanong le molao tlaleletso wa isago ya gagwe. Bebele ya re mowa o o bosula one o ntshiwa mo mothong ka go kgoromeletswa kwa lewatleng. Re bona bagolo bangwe ba eleng gore ba fetisetsa mewa ya bona e e bosula mo baneng jaaka boswa. Bana bao le bona ba tla e fitisetsa kwa dikokomaneng tsa bona. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[It is very sad to see a young person oppose a Bill which concerns his future. The Bible says that bad spirits were taken out of a person and driven into the sea. Some parents pass on this bad spirit to their children like a legacy. These children will also pass these bad spirits on to their children.]

We owe it to our children and to our children’s children to ensure that on the eve of South Africa’s Youth Day, we work towards a better future for all young people. The DP and the New NP must stop playing games with the lives of young people and vote in favour of the Bill.

Ga ke makale: a motho a reka diteki kwa lebenkeleng, o itse gore o rekile diteki. Le fa re ka tsaya bontlhanngwe jwa tšhelete ya Khomišene ya Bošwa, mme ra tshasa para e le nngwe ya diteki tseo, ga nkitla di fetoga go nna Florsheim. Teki e tla sala e le teki, le fa e oma e tla sala e le teki. Jaanong diteki tse dingwe di tlisitswe ka fa, ka monagano wa gore fa re di tshotse, me re di bapantshitse le di-Florsheim, di tla fetoga go nna ditlhako. Diteki di tla sala e le diteki. Ba tla nna ba le jalo, mme ga go makatse ka gonne ga se lantlha seo se diragala. Ba tla nna jalo go ya bosakhutleng. [Legofi.] (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[This does not surprise me: when a person sells takkies at the shop, that person knows what he or she has bought. Even if we can take a portion of the money from the Youth Commission and smear it on a pair of takkies, these takkies will not change into a pair of Florsheim shoes. A takkie will remain a takkie; even if it dries it will remain a takkie. Some takkies have been brought here with the idea that if they are compared to Florsheim shoes, they will change into shoes. Takkies will remain takkies. They will remain like this and this is not surprising because this has happened before. They will remain that way forever. [Applause.]]

Let me also take this opportunity to salute the young lions and lionesses of this country, both those who are dead and those who are alive, and wish them well in celebrating their day, South Africa’s Youth Day, on 16 June. Roar, young lions, roar! [Applause.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Minister, it is about time that such commissions were introduced. The aim of the National Youth Commission must be to work together with the community, but as an independent, competent representative that strives to develop the youth by meeting their diverse needs. The appointment of five full-time commissioners, five part-time commissioners and nine part-time provincial commissioners will hopefully facilitate a more constructive relationship between the National Youth Commission and provincial youth structures.

One can interpret the appointments as a way of establishing an efficient communication network, so that decision-making skills, service skills, conflict-resolution skills, negotiation skills, and the appreciation of diversity and human rights are co-ordinated and implemented by the National Youth Commission, which is automatically deemed to be a management team that is equipped with leadership qualities.

The benefits of restructuring the number of commissioners of the National Youth Commission must be expressed in community development projects, such as Aids education, crime awareness, unemployment and the transformation and reintegration of frustrated youth into society. The MF supports the National Youth Commission Amendment Bill. [Applause.]

Mr K M N GIGABA: Mr Chairperson, exactly nine days from today, South Africa shall observe the 24th anniversary of that historic and heroic 16 June 1976 youth uprising in Soweto. This day evokes proud memories in the minds of our people. It reminds us of our struggle against and victory over the inequitable system of apartheid. Accordingly, as we consider this amending Bill, we must retain the thought firmly fixed in our minds that this month reverberates with the spirit of youth revolt. During this month, notwithstanding their own responsibilities, the attention of the nation must be drawn towards the legitimate aspirations of our youth.

Youth development arises in South Africa as a central programme to address the social and economic grievances of our people, and it is intended to integrate the youth in the overall reconstruction and development of our country. It belongs in the sphere of those things requisite to prepare the younger generations to fulfil their historic role in the pursuit of our national and continental renaissance, hence the establishment of the National Youth Commission.

The National Youth Commission was never meant to solve all the problems faced by our youth on its own. It had as its urgent mandate to develop the national youth policy and ensure that all Government departments and institutions integrate youth development into their programmes. Thus, the challenge was also thrown to all institutions in our country, public and private, to do something in answer to the legitimate needs of our youth.

The youth in civil society responded by forming the SAYC and tasked it to work together with the commission and other youth NGOs in this effort. Sadly, there are those in society that have resisted this youth development, precisely because they are determined that our youth should remain disadvantaged and marginalised. They still begrudge the youth for their titanic struggle against apartheid.

They have taken it upon themselves to portray a negative public image of our youth. For them, the needs of our youth are but a mockery, and they never hesitate to attack the youth and the commission. Rather, they conceive of youth development as meaning handing out patronage to the youth as we will witness in the proposals of the DP. To further escalate their campaign, they raise trivial issues such as the salaries of commissioners, as opposed to points of principle.

It is quite obvious that this attack on youth development is based on the fact that these organisations represent the privileged youth. They have very little sympathy for and are actually intolerant of addressing the legitimate needs of black youth. Contrary to hon Da Camara’s views, the commission has a very clear national youth action plan presented to the President in 1997. Perhaps the problem exactly is that he sees youth as a market to be targeted. The hon Da Camara, by playing to the gallery and mocking the legitimate needs and serious youth concerns, displays his ignorance of the commission and hatred for youth development. [Interjections.]

However, the youth have remained focused and have continued to support the Government, the National Youth Commission and the Government’s development programmes. We are happy that the commission has refused to be distracted by this and remained steadfast and focused in carrying out their mandate and fulfilling their commitment to the youth. Through this amendment, we wish the youth of our country to know that we are today acknowledging the immense achievements of the commission. At the same time, we are recommitting ourselves to the escalation of youth development through a streamlined commission prepared for its future mandates and challenges.

Just as it has worked ceaselessly to execute its mandate, we trust that the commission will with even more vigour attend to its remaining and ever- rising new challenges with incredible responsibility. We must thank all those that have been part of the commission for their meticulous work and total commitment to youth development. We must thank the President for his stirling support for the commission since 1996, following in the true footsteps of our gallant Oliver Tambo and Nelson Mandela, the late and current honorary life president of the ANC Youth League respectively. We must also thank the hon Minister Pahad for his guidance and support, like a true father, for the commission.

We note that the New NP is unhappy about certain items in this amendment. However, we must all proceed together in discussing some further substantive amendments to the National Youth Commission Act to further strengthen the commission. We recommend this amending Bill to the House. [Applause.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Mr Chairperson, on this day when we are discussing an amendment to the National Youth Commission Act, I think the whole House will agree with me if we say ``happy birthday’’ to a very young person in this House, and that is Mr Andrew Mlangeni, who turned 75 yesterday. [Applause.]

I do regret that what is essentially a very simple amendment to the Youth Commission Act should evoke such emotional responses from Mr Da Camara. It seems to me that he was jumping the gun. The debate on the President’s Vote takes place next week, and on 14 June we will be having a discussion, I understand, in Parliament on National Youth Day. And if the DP so wishes, we are quite prepared to have a proper, sober discussion on the Youth Commission itself. All we are asking is for them to support a simple amendment to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the work of the Youth Commission.

If he says in all seriousness that young people have lost hope in the country of their birth, then I must ask myself whom he is talking about. If one takes the ANC and the IFP together - I am not talking about the other parties that have also supported the amendment - we got, I suppose, nearly 77% of the votes in the last election. So who is the hon member talking about? [Interjections.]

Let me say this, because I do not want to engage in this debate. I think we will have another time to engage in the debate. But it does behove the member to stop pretending to be representing the masses of the people that he does not represent. [Interjections.] If he stands up and say: ``I speak on behalf of those privileged youth’’, then we will listen a little bit better. I think it is important for us to be clear.

Incidentally, I understand the New NP even less. There have been extensive discussions between the Youth Commission, the youth of the New NP and the ANC Youth League. I do not know whom he speaks for. It is his government in the Western Cape that refused to appoint a part-time commissioner. I do not know how many discussions I had with them. Instead, they said that they preferred to have an MEC for youth affairs, and we said fine, we would work with the MEC for youth affairs in order to achieve the same objectives. Now, how does the hon member stand here and say that those people were not consulted? There was nobody to consult, since they did not put anybody there. [Interjections.]

It seems to me that it is still possible for the New NP to say that they will go so far as to accept the amendment. I said in my speech that we were quite prepared to listen to all the political parties present. They should say what more should be done, including, if necessary, amending the National Youth Commission Act to better serve the young people of this country. And we on our side are quite prepared to do this. But it has to be a constructive approach.

It will not help us if we think that all we are elected to this House to do is to stand up and shout, to stand up and scream, to stand up and make statements that are absurd in the extreme, and to pretend that we represent something that we do not. Therefore, I still appeal to the House, even at this late stage; come and support this amendment and then let us take this further in the interests of the youth of this country. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).

The House adjourned at 18:29. _____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Education:

 Explanatory Memorandum of Vote 8 "Education", Supplementary Estimate
 for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Finance: (1) Supplementary Estimate of Expenditure to be defrayed from the National Revenue Fund during the Financial Year ending 31 March 2001 [RP 4-2000].

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Supplementary Estimate for 2000-
     2001.

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 Explanatory Memorandum of Vote 4 "Arts, Culture, Science and
 Technology", Supplementary Estimate for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Housing:

 Government Notice Number R.437 published in the Government Gazette
 Number 21136 dated 5 May 2000, Dissolution of the Pretoria Region Rent
 Board and extension of the area of jurisdiction of the Southern and
 Western Region Rent Board to include the Pretoria area, made in terms
 of sections 2(1) and 2(2) of the Rent Control Act, 1976 (Act No 80 of
 1976).

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs: Explanatory Memorandum of Vote 3 “Agriculture”, Supplementary Estimate for 2000-2001.

2. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Explanatory Memorandum on Vote 34 "Water Affairs and Forestry",
 Supplementary Estimate for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Health:

 Explanatory Memorandum of Vote 13 "Health", Supplementary Estimate for
 2000-2001.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government on Vote 22: Provincial and Local Government, dated 5 June 2000:

 The Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government, having
 considered Vote 22: Provincial and Local Government, reports as
 follows:
 A.     Introduction


     1. The budget review of the Ministry and the Department of
          Provincial and Local Government (the Department) was
          undertaken on 14, 15 and 17 March and 4 April 2000.

     2. Those who appeared before the Committee included Minister F S
          Mufamadi, Director-General Z Titus, Deputy Director-General R
          Sizani, Acting Deputy Director-General J Manche, Financial
          Manager C Clerihew, Chief Directors L Buys, G Moloi, T Seboka
          and G Mokate, and Directors M Makhura and C Pakade. Messrs S
          Mqaka and S Jappie represented the Local Government Education
          and Training Board. Morena M Mopeli, Nkosi M Matanzima, Kgoshi
          M Malikane and Mr L Molubi represented the National House of
          Traditional Leaders. Dr M Sutcliffe, Dr L Zitha and Mr N
          Buthelezi represented the Municipal Demarcation Board. Mr M
          Morobe and Dr H Fast of the Financial and Fiscal Commission
          (FFC) also briefed the Committee.
     3. The Department's Annual Report and other documents reached the
          Committee far too late. The Committee expresses its concern
          about this, and urges the Department to ensure that the
          documents reach the Committee at least 10 days before the
          budget hearings in future. All three statutory bodies
          submitted their reports on time, and the Committee expresses
          its appreciation for this. Although the Department's documents
          were late, they were fairly comprehensive and of a high
          standard.


     4. The Committee feels that it would have been very useful to have
          had a full day's workshop on the Ministry and the Department's
          new perspectives, policies and programmes and the
          restructuring of the Department, as a precursor to the budget
          hearings.  There was far too much to cover in the budget
          hearings. In view of disaster management and other challenges
          confronting the Department, it was not possible to have such a
          workshop this year. The Committee proposes that in future, at
          the beginning of each year, before the budget hearings, a
          workshop be organised to consider the Ministry's and the
          Department's perspectives, policies and programmes for the
          year.


 B.     New direction of Ministry and Department


     1. The Minister set out the new perspectives, priorities, policies
          and programmes of the Ministry and the Department. He
          explained that previously the Department focussed on the
          implementation of the Constitution and the establishment of
          the provincial and local government system. Negotiations are
          under way to hand over the functions to be implemented in
          terms of the Constitution to the new Ministry and Department
          of Justice and Constitutional Development. The focus of the
          Department will increasingly be on effective governance in all
          three spheres, especially on greater co-ordination between the
          spheres. Co-operative governance will be a key concern of the
          Department. It will focus on consolidating the
          intergovernmental relations (IGR) system and on ensuring
          effective planning and service delivery through appropriate co-
          ordination between the three spheres of government.


     2. The institutions of traditional leadership would be reconciled
          with the overall system of co-operative governance and IGR.
          The Minister explained that the demarcation of municipal
          boundaries would not significantly affect the powers and
          functions of traditional leaders, and that the challenge is to
          ensure that traditional leaders and councillors work together
          to advance democracy and development. The Discussion Document
          on Traditional Leaders, which would be a precursor to the
          White Paper, will be released shortly, and he urged Parliament
          to ensure that an appropriate process of public discussion
          follow the release of the document.


     3. The Minister stressed the importance of government in all three
          spheres ensuring that they contributed to economic growth and
          job creation. He paid particular attention to the role of
          local government in contributing to Local Economic Development
          (LED).


     4. The Minister explained that the Department, the Department of
          Home Affairs, the Independent Electoral Commission and the
          Municipal Demarcation Board had established a joint structure
          to ensure that the local government elections are properly
          prepared for. He appealed to members of the Committee and
          public representatives generally to ensure the success of the
          elections and local government transformation.


     5. The Minister referred to the disaster management challenges
          confronting the country and the Southern African region. He
          pointed to the importance of developing appropriate disaster
          management strategies, and said that the Disaster Management
          Bill would contribute in this regard.


     6. In response to the Committee's concern, the Minister explained
          that the focus on IGR would not undermine the importance of
          local government, but in fact would strengthen it.


     7. The Committee recognises the value of the new approach of the
          Ministry and the Department. The Committee, understandably,
          until now has focussed mainly on local government, and has not
          paid adequate attention to provincial government and IGR. With
          the new direction of the Ministry and the Department, the
          Committee will pay increasing attention to the provincial
          system, IGR and traditional leadership.


 C.     Restructuring of Department


     1. Consistent with the new direction set out in paragraph B above,
          the Department is undergoing a process of restructuring. The
          Department sets out its vision as follows: "To become the
          leading department in promoting co-operative governance and
          supporting an effective system of Provincial and Local
          Government for accelerated service delivery". Its mission is:
          "To champion an integrated, sustainable system of governance
          that supports development and service provision through
          policy, legislation, monitoring and institutional capacity
          building to improve the quality of life for all". One of its
          key priorities is "building an integrated, performance
          orientated, people-centred and accountable system of
          government, free of corruption and committed to serving the
          people".


     2. The restructuring process is informed by "internal and external
          factors". These include "integrated approaches, strategic re-
          focus, functional integration, service delivery imperatives
          and the prescripts of the New Public Service Regulations".


     3. Essentially, the Department is doing away with its current
          separation along the lines of local government and provincial
          affairs and creating a more integrated structure that is
          consistent with its focus on co-operative governance and IGR.
          The new structure is intended to provide an improvement in
          service delivery and will operate in terms of a more developed
          performance management system and be underpinned more clearly
          by the Batho Pele ethos.


     4. The Committee would have preferred more documentation on, and a
          clearer sense of, the restructuring. The majority in the
          Committee broadly understands the overall direction of the
          restructuring and how this relates to the new priorities of
          the Ministry and the Department. In view of time limitations,
          however, the Committee was not able to adequately come to
          terms with how the new structure would look and how exactly it
          would fit into the new goals of the Department. The Committee
          would like, in terms of the oversight role of Parliament, to
          discuss further with the Department its restructuring process
          at some appropriate stage in the near future.


 D.     Overview of Budget and Local Government Finances


     1. The Ministry and the Department of Provincial and Local
          Government have been allocated R3 558 573 000 for this year,
          which is an increase of 11,2% in nominal terms and 5,1% in
          real terms over last year. R2 902 550 000 of this constitutes
          transfers to local government, of which R1 867 000 000
          comprises local governments' equitable share of national
          revenue. The latter amount represents an increase of 11,6% in
          nominal terms and 5,5% in real terms over last year.


     2. Apart from the equitable share, local government will also
          receive, in total, conditional grants of R963 000 000 and
          agency payments of R3 879 000 000. Hence, the total transfer
          to local government constitutes R6 709 000 000.


     3. The Committee has difficulties evaluating the budget allocated
          to local government, especially in relation to last year's
          allocations. This is partly because of the way the information
          is presented, the addition of the new transfer items and the
          lack of information on local government finances generally. It
          is also difficult, at this stage, to understand what the
          financial implications of the establishment of new
          municipalities will be.


     4. The Committee is aware that most municipalities are not raising
          the full revenue they should, have financial management
          difficulties and are not adequately engaging in LED, service
          partnerships and other strategies to ensure economic and
          financial viability. The Committee understands that flinging
          more money at local government is not the answer, and may even
          exacerbate the problems. Surely, however, there is room for
          national and provincial government to contribute more to help
          municipalities to develop strategies to raise more revenue,
          grow their local economies and improve their financial
          management capacity? The Committee is interested in the
          Department's LED, municipal service partnerships and other
          work, and welcomes the allocation of grants to municipalities
          experiencing financial difficulties to restructure and develop
          their financial management capacity. The latter includes the
          local government support grant (R150 million), the
          restructuring grant (R300 million) and the financial
          management grant (R50 million). While all this is welcome, is
          it enough? Also, should this not be complemented by the
          national government allocating more funds to local government?
          Of course, the Committee is acutely aware of the fiscal and
          financial constraints of the national government. However,
          clearly, the majority in the Committee feels that if local
          government is going to effectively fulfil the powers and
          functions allocated to it and the increasing responsibilities
          heaped on it, and if it is to be the major site of service
          delivery and development it has been identified to be, it has
          to be allocated more funding.


     5. The Committee is interested in understanding exactly what
          formula is used to decide local government's equitable share
          of national revenue, and welcomes the work being done by the
          Department on this. The Committee is also interested in
          pursuing with the Department what can be done to more tightly
          monitor how this money is spent by municipalities.


     6. The Committee has on several occasions expressed its concern
          that no money is allocated for transition to the new system of
          local government to come into effect with the local government
          elections. However, the Minister and the Department explained
          that now that the demarcation has been basically completed and
          there is a clear sense of the nature and number of the new
          municipalities to be established, a process is under way to
          establish the costs of transition. The Cabinet is to be
          approached to consider funding a transitional fund for the
          "one-off" cost of the transition.


     7. As part of its intergovernmental fiscal relations work, the
          Department is undertaking an inquiry into the overall fiscal
          framework. Apart from a study of the equitable share, it is
          also developing policy frameworks on the division of fiscal
          powers between district and local municipalities, financing
          district councils, rationalising capital grants and national
          tariffs, and the fiscal gap between the expenditure and
          revenue of local government. The Department is developing a
          comprehensive financial database.


 E.     Financial and Fiscal Commission (FFC)


     1. Mr Morobe, chairperson of the FFC, said that "the design of a
          system of local government finance has long been complicated
          by a lack of data".


     2. He also suggested that there is an ad hoc approach to the
          classification of funds flowing to local government. He
          suggested that the inclusion for the first time of bus
          subsidies and public works as part of the local government
          allocation tended to artificially inflate the total transfer
          to local government. He called for a more consistent approach
          to the classification of funds and for the rationale for the
          classification to be explained clearly.


     3. He explained that in its publication, "Local Government in a
          System of Intergovernmental Relations in South Africa", the
          FFC argued that two principles should underlie the
          determination of the equitable share to local government:


          (1) Sufficient resources should be provided to match the
              services that municipalities are constitutionally
              required to deliver.

          (2) Persons in different jurisdictions should receive
              reasonably comparable levels of public services at
              reasonably comparable levels of tax effort.


          These two principles would inform the Commissions' new "costed
          norms" approach that it would like to explore in respect of
          local government. In respect of provincial government "the
          costed norms approach is a formula-based method for
          calculating the financial resources necessary for the
          provision of basic service levels, given nationally mandated
          norms and standards".


     4. Mr Morobe pointed to the unevenness in tax capacity of
          municipalities. Rural areas find it difficult to raise revenue
          through property rates. Municipalities with large proportions
          of poor people have difficulties raising money through service
          charges. District municipalities with a limited commercial and
          industrial base raise little in respect of district levies.


     5. He also pointed out how the costs of fulfilling
          constitutionally required functions varies according to the
          level of infrastructure, location from urban areas and credit
          ratings.


     6. The FFC evaluates any system of intergovernmental transfers in
          terms of the extent to which it equalises for both tax
          capacity and expenditure differences.
     7. The FFC also echoed concerns about the need for the budget to
          cater for the transitional costs of the establishment of the
          new municipalities.


 F.     Programme on Legislation and Policies


     1. The following bills have been or are to be introduced in
          Parliament this year: "Local Government: Municipal Systems
          Bill", "Transfer of Staff to Municipalities Amendment Bill",
          "Disaster Management Bill", "Local Government: Municipal
          Electoral Bill", "Cross-Boundary Municipalities Bill",
          "National House of Traditional Leaders Amendment Bill",
          "Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Amendment Bill", "Local
          Government: Property Rating Bill", and "Promotion and
          Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic
          Communities Bill".


     2. The following policy documents are to be released this year:
          "Discussion Document on Traditional Leadership", "Audit of IGR
          institutions", "Discussion Document on the Application and
          Regulation of the Supervisory Powers in sections 100 and 139
          of the Constitution", "Discussion Document on
          Intergovernmental Relations", "Discussion Document on
          Intergovernmental Dispute Settlement", and "Guidelines for
          Targeting Poor Households in Provision of Basic Services
          (Indigence Policy)".


     3. The following policy documents may also be released this year:
          "Policy Framework on Performance Management", "Discussion
          Document on Khoisan Communities", "Discussion Document on a Co-
          ordinated National Framework for Monitoring and Evaluation",
          "Discussion Document on Strategic Issues and Policy Options
          for IGR", "Strategy on Capacity-Building", "Municipal
          Infrastructure Investment Framework", "Procurement Guidelines
          to Municipalities for CMIP Projects", "MSP Policy Framework",
          "LED White Paper", "IDP White Paper", "Policy Framework on
          Implementation of effective Credit Control (National
          Guidelines and Regulations)", "Strengthening Property Tax in
          South Africa", "Discussion Document on Fiscal Powers and
          Functions between Category B and C Municipalities", and
          "Guidelines for National Municipal Tariffs".


 G.     Intergovernmental Relations (IGR)


     1. The consolidation of an integrated system of IGR is one of the
          Department's key focus areas and is central to the new
          portfolio assigned to the Department after the second
          democratic elections. The budget for the IGR programme has
          been increased by 72%.


     2. Essentially, the Department aims to develop policy and
          legislative frameworks to ensure greater co-ordination and
          alignment of governmental structures to provide for more
          efficient decision-making and improved service delivery. Much
          of the programme set out in paragraph F above is directed
          towards this.


     3. The Department seeks to contribute to efforts to develop the
          administrative capacity to strengthen intergovernmental co-
          ordination. The Department aims to "strengthen the applied
          policy research capacity of the country specifically for
          provincial IGR practitioners and hopes to establish a
          specialist research institute on IGR".


     4. The Committee welcomes the Department's programme on IGR, and
          seeks to contribute to achieving the outcomes the Department
          has set out.


 H.     Traditional Affairs


     1. Traditional affairs is part of the co-operative governance
          programme. The budget for traditional affairs has been
          increased by 42,7% in nominal terms, from R6 136 000 to R8 755
          000.


     2. The Department is finalising a database on traditional leaders
          and institutions, and is focussing on a review of the
          remuneration of traditional leaders, resolution of
          chieftainship, monitoring capacity-building programmes and the
          rationalisation of existing laws on traditional leadership and
          institutions.


     3. The Department proposes to establish an independent national
          commission on disputes and claims on traditional leadership to
          deal with issues around the legitimacy of traditional leaders.


     4. The Department is also completing work on the constitutional
          accommodation of the Khoisan and other traditional
          communities.


     5. Obviously there are understandable difficulties, but the
          Committee feels that there has not been adequate progress with
          work being done in respect of traditional leadership and
          institutions, and urges that this be speeded up. The Committee
          welcomes the Department's work on Khoisan and other
          traditional communities, and urges that this be advanced
          significantly.
 I.     Development and Support


     1. Essentially, the Department seeks to contribute to the
          development of an integrated system of planning and delivery
          across all spheres of government. As part of this, there are
          eight programmes: Infrastructure and Planning, Municipal
          Service Partnerships, Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure
          Programmes, Local Economic Development, Social Plan Measures,
          Equitable Share to Local Government, Local Government Support
          and R293 towns.


     2. The Department has been doing much work around integrated
          development plans (IDPs). IDP pilot projects have been
          completed around the country, and lessons drawn from these
          have been incorporated into the Municipal Systems Bill. An IDP
          manual has been completed and a quarterly IDP newsletter is
          produced. Over the next year, the Department is to implement
          support programmes for IDPs in the 46 district councils to be
          established after the elections, and is to produce guidelines
          for municipalities to implement IDPs in terms of the Municipal
          Systems Bill.


     3. The Department has advanced its programme on municipal service
          partnerships (MSPs). It has produced a draft white paper on
          MSPs and offered training to 150 municipalities. It has been
          working closely with the municipal infrastructure investment
          unit and has facilitated debates with the trade unions on
          MSPs. Over the next year, the Department is to finalise the
          white paper, consolidate its programme on public/public
          partnerships, produce MSP guidelines for municipalities and
          compile an annual report on the status of MSPs in South
          Africa.


     4. Through the consolidated municipal infrastructure programme,
          the Department provides funding to municipalities to address
          infrastructure backlogs. The programme has been allocated R891
          722, compared to R703 289 last year. Over 500 projects have
          been completed. Over the next year, the programme will be
          increasingly focussing on rural areas. The municipal
          infrastructure investment framework is to be reviewed, and a
          more robust monitoring and evaluation system established. A
          more structured capacity-building programme on infrastructure
          delivery is to be set in place.


     5. The Department has developed a five-year strategic plan for the
          implementation of the LED programme. It has produced a draft
          policy paper on LED and guidelines for municipalities, and has
          established provincial task teams. In August last year the
          Department received R42 million for LED. It has approved 47
          projects with the potential to create up to 13 000 jobs. The
          Department is seeking R300 million per annum over the next
          three years for LED. The requests from municipalities for
          funds until now total R779 million. Over the next year the
          Department is to seek additional funding, finalise its LED
          policy and work more closely with other departments in respect
          of LED work.


     6. The social plan emerged as a response to the 1998 jobs summit.
          It is meant to provide support to municipalities facing large-
          scale retrenchments or who receive people that are retrenched.
          Municipalities are encouraged to undertake regeneration
          studies and develop LED strategies to create jobs. The
          Department has obtained R2,9 million for the social plan fund
          and has approved projects of over R2 million. Over the next
          year, the Department is to work with other departments to
          develop a national strategy on job losses and produce
          regeneration policy guidelines for municipalities.


     7. R463 million has been allocated to fund the personnel of R293
          towns. The end of September 2000 has been set as the deadline
          for the transfer of R293 staff to municipalities. The staff
          have been guaranteed their current salaries for a period of
          not less than three years. It is expected that there will now
          be a greater willingness to move.


     8. The Committee feels that a crucial test of the Department's
          work is the degree to which it successfully implements the
          programmes set out in this section. These are major programmes
          focussed on delivery and development. Given the importance of
          job creation and the need to stimulate the small business
          sector, the Committee fully supports the Department's
          programmes on LED and the social plan and its pursuit for more
          funding for these programmes. While the Committee feels that
          the budget for the consolidated municipal infrastructure
          programme is far from adequate, it welcomes the Department's
          commitment to increasingly focus this programme on rural
          areas. The Committee also encourages the Department to
          consolidate its work on MSPs, and feels that its greater focus
          on public/public partnerships over the next year is to be
          welcomed. The Committee is concerned about the acute lack of
          capacity among municipalities to develop appropriate IDPs, and
          urges that the Department strengthen its work in this regard.


 J.     Disaster Management


     1. The R3 883 000 allocated in the budget is for disaster
          management and not for disaster relief. The money will be used
          to facilitate the implementation of disaster management
          legislation. The legislation provides a framework for a
          comprehensive and co-ordinated disaster management strategy.
          It provides for training and capacity-building programmes, and
          a monitoring and evaluation system based on a risk reduction
          approach.


     2. Once the President declares a disaster area, the Department of
          Welfare and Population Development becomes responsible for
          disaster relief funds, in terms of section 26 of the
          Fundraising Act, 1978. A National Disaster Relief Fund has
          been established to receive and disburse funds for disaster
          relief.


     3. A disaster co-ordinating structure, under the leadership of
          Deputy Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, has been established by the
          Cabinet. It is supported by a technical team of experts, and
          it operates through three subcommittees, namely
          Reconstruction, Defence and Health.


     4. The Committee feels that disaster management is not just the
          responsibility of the government, but of public
          representatives and civil society as a whole. The Committee
          feels that there is a need for greater engagement by public
          representatives and civil society in managing disasters. The
          Committee intends to send a delegation of MPs to visit the
          Disaster Management Centre later this year, after the Disaster
          Management Bill has been introduced in Parliament. The
          majority in the Committee is aware of the challenges the
          Department has had to confront with the continuous outbreak of
          disasters since December, not just in this country, but in the
          Southern African region generally. The majority in the
          Committee feels that, given the magnitude of the disasters and
          the limited resources available, the Department has responded
          well to the disaster, and is to be commended. The majority in
          the Committee also acknowledges the work done by the
          Department in responding to the Y2K problem.
 K.     Local Government Education and Training Board


     1. The local government education and training sector is
          undergoing major restructuring in terms of the Skills
          Development Act, 1998, and the Skills Development Levies Act,
          1999. This has meant the disestablishment of the Local
          Government Education and Training Board and the coming into
          effect of the Sector Education and Training Authority (SETA)
          with effect from 1 April 2000.


     2. Much of the Board's activities over the past year have been
          shaped by this restructuring process, which also included the
          participation of the Department, Salga and trade unions. The
          Board reported that the process has gone well. It's main
          training activities have been around the needs of project
          viability. The aim has been to train senior financial officers
          and councillors from municipalities identified through project
          viability on municipal finance (2 364 people have received
          training). The Board's other technical training activities are
          continuing, and the intake is 200 people per financial year.
          In the past year, 297 people were trained as apprentices in
          different trades. The pass rate was 65,77%.


     3. The Board was allocated R9 million last year. The Committee
          expresses its serious concern that most of this money was not
          spent, and urges that the new SETA makes productive use of
          funds to intensify capacity-building and training in the local
          government sphere. The Committee is also disturbed at the
          quality and nature of the report presented by the Board, which
          was far from adequate.


     4. In terms of the new skills development legislation,
          municipalities will have to contribute 0,5% of their wage bill
          as from 1 April 2000 and 1% of their wage bill from 1 April
          2001 towards training and skills development.


     5. The Committee emphasises the importance of training and
          capacity-building for the success of local government,
          particularly with the implementation of the new system of
          local government. The Committee recognises that there are
          organisations apart from the Board that are responsible for
          local government education and training, and believe that it
          is vital that there be greater integration of the work of
          these organisations. The Committee welcomes the Department's
          approach to capacity-building and performance management, and
          hopes that its plans will be implemented appropriately. The
          Committee would like to see local government's SETA taking
          firm responsibility for capacity-building, and will arrange
          for a parliamentary briefing from the SETA and other relevant
          organisations in six months' time.


 L.     National House of Traditional Leaders
     1. The National House of Traditional Leaders set out its vision
          statement as follows:


          "To become an autonomous, dynamic, non-sexist and progressive
          institution unifying the Traditional Leaders of South Africa,
          towards the restoration of dignity and pride in the
          institution of Traditional Leadership and its role in
          promoting the welfare of the people in a new world of
          democracy". Its mission statement is: "To work pro-actively to
          plan, integrate and co-ordinate the activities and programmes
          of its institutional structures and communities, guided by the
          principle of accountability, assertiveness and transparency".


     2. The National House spent much of the past year consolidating
          its organisational structure and strengthening its links with
          the Provincial House of Traditional Leaders. The National
          House functions through seven committees: Management, Rules,
          Business, Constitutional Development, Social Development,
          Traditions, Culture and Custom, and Internal Arrangements.


     3. Among the activities of the House over the past year were the
          Skukuza and Mmabatho Conferences of Traditional Leaders, the
          meeting with the Premiers' Forum, parliamentary briefings,
          engagements with various government departments and the South
          African Land Commission on issues of policy and legislation,
          representations on the demarcation of municipal boundaries,
          and rural development and welfare work.


     4. The House believes that it has a crucial role to play in
          "making the principle of African Renaissance a reality". Among
          the key aspects of its programme for the year ahead are rural
          development, welfare activities, HIV/AIDS, education and
          literacy and crime prevention. The House wants to get more
          involved in issues of policy and legislation affecting
          traditional leaders, and also plans to engage more with the
          Departments of Justice and Constitutional Development and of
          Land Affairs and Agriculture on issues of customary law and
          land. The House also wants to focus on the empowerment of
          women, and plans to meet the Commission for Gender Equality.


     5. The House opposes the establishment of primary municipalities
          in traditional authority areas, and is negotiating with the
          President on this. The House is concerned that the municipal
          demarcation process is basically finalised, yet the white
          paper on traditional leadership is far from being completed.


     6. The House feels that its budget of R3,306 million is
          inadequate, and requests that this be increased.


     7. The Committee observes that the report of the House, and the
          perspectives, policies and programme it sets out, are a
          considerable advance on what was presented last year, and
          welcomes this. The majority in the Committee believes that the
          President will appropriately address the concerns of
          traditional leaders about municipal demarcation. The Committee
          notes that the House spent R852 662 of its budget of R3,29
          million in 1998-99 and R2,05 million of its budget of R3,4
          million in 1999-2000. It recognises that the House was
          experiencing "teething" problems and that many of these are
          now resolved, but believes that in the absence of a clear
          business plan and specific justification for more money, it
          would not at this stage be appropriate to allocate more
          funding to the House.


 M.     Municipal Demarcation Board


     1. The Municipal Demarcation Board presented a very comprehensive
          report on its activities over the past year and set out its
          proposed work programme for the period ahead.


     2. The Board comprises one full-time member, the chairperson, Dr M
          Sutcliffe, and eight part-time members, one having resigned at
          the end of 1999.


     3. The Board had scores of meetings with a wide variety of
          stakeholders, including the Minister, MECs, parliamentary
          committees, political parties, government departments, Salga
          (and its affiliates), Houses of Traditional Leaders, private
          sector organisations and NGOs. Following the publication of
          draft boundaries, the Board organised 148 public hearings,
          attended by 7 286 people. The Board received 245 submissions
          responding to its section 26 notice of intention to consider
          boundaries, and 2 353 submissions following its publication of
          the proposed boundaries. The Board operates a toll-free call
          centre, and its website has been visited about one million
          times. The Board has developed a useful database on local
          government issues.


     4. Dr Sutcliffe explained that the Board had adequately consulted
          traditional leaders and had addressed their concerns in terms
          of the Constitution and legislation.


     5. The Board's proposal on the final boundaries are the following:


          6        category A municipalities
          232 category B municipalities
          46       category C municipalities
          26       district management areas
          In respect of category B, eight, and of the category C, seven,
          are proposed as cross-boundary municipalities.


     6. In co-operation with the IEC, the Board hoped to finalise the
          ward boundaries of municipalities by 29 May 2000.


     7. In partnership with the Minister and MECs for local government,
          the Board has analised the financial and institutional
          capacity of municipalities. The MECs will adjust powers and
          functions between category B and C municipalities on the basis
          of this analysis and in terms of the policy framework provided
          by the Minister.


     8. In co-operation with the Minister, MECs, the Department and the
          Department of Finance, the Board established the following
          working committees to deal with the process of establishing
          the new municipalities: Co-ordinating Committee, Powers and
          Functions, Finance, Legal and Transitional.
     9. The Board has been allocated R24, 8 million for this year. Last
          year it was allocated R19 million.


     10.     The Board has been confronted with a daunting task. The
          majority in the Committee believes that the Board has
          performed very well, especially in view of time, resource and
          other constraints. The Board has been utterly remarkable in
          meeting almost all its deadlines, and it has been extremely
          prudent in its use of funds, for which it must be commended.


 N.     Oversight role of Committee


     1. The core policies and legislation establishing the new
          democracy have been largely adopted over the past six years.
          The key considerations now are the proper implementation of
          the policies and legislation and improvement in service
          delivery and development. In this context, the oversight role
          of Parliament becomes even more important than in the first
          five-year term of Parliament. The Committee needs to apply
          itself to how it can more effectively fulfil this oversight
          role. The overall review of Parliament's oversight role
          initiated by the Speaker will be of assistance in this regard.


     2. The Committee has not adequately evaluated the Department's
          budget in terms of proposed outcomes or the Medium-Term
          Expenditure Framework. The Committee has to do this more
          concertedly in future.


     3. Following future budget briefings, the Committee should have a
          full review of the budget before it finalises its report to
          Parliament. There should also be a greater focus on the
          Committee's views of the budget and less on the reports given
          by the Department and statutory bodies to Parliament. A fuller
          discussion is necessary on the nature and format of the annual
          budget reports to Parliament. This could be assisted by the
          oversight report initiated by the Speaker referred to in
          paragraph 1 above.
     4. The Committee feels that in future budget briefings the
          Department should respond more directly to the comments of the
          Committee set out in its annual report to Parliament.


     5. The Committee still does not have a research assistant, and
          without this technical support it is hopelessly ill-equipped
          to play an effective oversight role.


 O.     Concluding remarks


     The Minister and a full team from the Department attended the
     budget review. The Committee expresses its appreciation to them
     and wishes them well for the coming year.

1. Report of the Ad Hoc Committee on Report 13 of Public Protector, dated 7 June 2000:

   The Ad Hoc Committee on Report 13 of Public Protector reports as follows:

   1. The Committee, after due deliberation, heard evidence from the Public Protector on his report.

   2. Having heard the evidence, the Committee realised that the scope, range and complexity of the matters dealt with in the report were particularly grave and of great consequence to Parliament, and that there was much to be derived from investigating it comprehensively.

   3. In its previous Report to the National Assembly, dated 25 February 2000, the Committee indicated that it would need at least three calendar months from the date of adoption of that Report by the House to complete its work, but that it might need to approach the House with a view to extending that period, if necessary.

   4. It has now become clear that the Committee was not able to complete its work within the three-month period indicated, and it therefore recommends that the House extend the deadline until 31 August 2000. Report to be considered.

2. Report of the Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions on the Petition of P L Young, dated 7 June 2000:

   The Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions, having considered the Special Petition of Mr P L Young, referred to it, reports as follows:

       The Committee recommends that, with effect from 1 April 1998,
       a pension be paid to Mr P L Young in accordance with the
       Military Pensions Act, 1976, as if he had been doing military
       service when he sustained his injuries.
   

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs on Sorghum Industry Levy, dated 7 June 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs, having considered the application by the National Agricultural Marketing Council for the continuation of the statutory levy in the sorghum industry, reports, in terms of section 15 of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act, 1996, that it has approved the recommendation of the Council, namely that the statutory levy of R3,10 (VAT excluded) be continued until 28 February 2001.