FRIDAY, 11 MAY 2001 __

                PROCCEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

The House met at 09:02.

The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M T GONIWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Minister of Safety and Security, Steve Tshwete, recently said that Pagad was behind the urban terror on the Cape Flats and was ridiculed by the Opposition;

(2) also notes that, subsequent to the Minister’s statements, the following Pagad members were charged, convicted and sentenced:

   (a)  Ismail Edwards - 25 years;


   (b)  Dawood Osman - 32 years;


   (c)  Mansoer Legget - 11 life sentences;


   (d)  Faizel Waggie, Haroon Orrie, Shahied and Nazeem Davids charged
       with attempted sabotage, possession of an explosive device and
       intimidation; and


   (e)  Ebrahim Jeneker, Abdullah and Ismail Maansdorp facing 138
       charges ranging from murder, attempted murder, kidnapping and
       robbery to illegal possession of firearms; and

(3) congratulates the Minister and denounces the silence of the DP on the vindication of the Minister.

[Applause.]

Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes the ludicrous attempts of Deputy Minister Aziz Pahad and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, to suggest that Mr Tony Leon is responsible for the bad image which South Africa currently enjoys in the rest of the world;

(2) further notes that Mr Leon has had a very successful trip to France where he told the truth about South Africa and where he stressed that South Africa is a stable democracy with the potential for a bright future; and

(3) should realise that statements by opposition members have not had, and never can have, the disastrous effect caused by exponents of the conspiracy theory such as Minister Steve Tshwete and the President.

[Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) is disappointed that Afinta Motor Corporation (AMC), which was the top-rated candidate to provide the 18-35 motor vehicle, is currently under provisional liquidation;

(2) is further disappointed that the other six bidders who could be considered for the tender are far away on the latitude of Government’s specifications for the tender; and

(3) appeals to all concerned parties to the recapitalisation process to give this matter the urgent attention it deserves.

Mr D A HANEKOM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes news reports that our economy’s long-term prospects are sound because of the fiscal discipline of the Government;

(2) also notes that interest rates fell a great deal in 1999 and are now broadly on a par with rates in the US and Europe;

(3) further notes that, following a complete reversal of the old NP policies, the dissaving of the apartheid government will have disappeared completely in two years’ time;

(4) commends the ANC and the Minister of Finance for - (a) the budget deficit and inflation reduction;

   (b)  the greater financial stability;


   (c)  the tariff regime reform;


   (d)  reducing the balance of payments constraint; and


   (e)  lessening our vulnerability to external economic shocks; and

(5) pledges its support for the ANC’s continuous efforts to build a globally competitive economy.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with disgust that Sudan, whose government stands accused of enslaving segments of its population and of trampling on the rights of religious minorities, has been elected a member of the UN Human Rights Commission;

(2) furthermore notes with dismay that the SA Government did nothing to block Sudan’s candidature;

(3) agrees that the election of Sudan as a member of the UN Human Rights Commission makes a mockery of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and

(4) urges the Government to convey South Africa’s protest in the strongest possible terms to the Secretary-General of the United Nations.

[Applause.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the decision by Eskom to increase tariffs, which comes as a huge shock to consumers, especially in rural areas and townships, and exposes the ANC’s election promise of free electricity as a hollow promise;

(2) acknowledges that this tariff increase is not commensurate with consumer inflation rates and that in fact tariff increases seem more profit-driven than service-orientated;

(3) agrees that this decision will have a negative impact on the investor environment and will put greater pressure on the manufacturing sector (a leading consumer of electricity), leading to price increases in goods and higher inflation, and that these effects will inevitably be passed on to the consumer and the poor; and

(4) calls on the Minister of Minerals and Energy to intervene and on Government to give urgent attention to alternative energy solutions, instead of exploiting hard-pressed consumers with additional expenses.

Mrs M S MAINE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes news reports that the Scorpions made a breakthrough in the money-for-jobs corruption scandal at the Pretoria Central Prison with the arrest of two people, and the promise of more arrests;

(2) also notes that the Scorpions also made a breakthrough in the investigations into the theft of Telkom cables with the arrest of two businessmen who delivered these cables on subcontract;

(3) further notes that President Thabo Mbeki has recently referred to these scams and promised that arrests are expected soon;

(4) commends the Scorpions for the sterling work they are doing in the arduous fight against crime and corruption; and

(5) commends the President for his hands-on approach to crime-fighting.

[Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag van die Huis namens die VF sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem -

   (a)  van die heldhaftige optrede van die twee Bosmanbroers, Pieter
       (16) en Mark (17), wat twee Basotho-drenkelinge uit 'n siedende
       Oranjerivier gered het;


   (b)  daarvan dat die AEB gaan aansoek doen om die broers in oorweging
       te bring vir die Wolraad Woltemade-medalje vir dapperheid in
       vredestyd; en


   (c)  daarvan dat die optrede van die twee broers van besondere
       betekenis is in hierdie tyd waarin die land gebuk gaan onder 'n
       wolk van rassepolarisasie;

(2) dit betreur dat hierdie positiewe optrede so min publisiteit geniet het, vergeleke met die negatiewe gevalle van oortredings met ‘n moontlike rassekonnotasie; en

(3) elke lid van die Huis asook die media in die land oproep om deur positiewe leierskap en ‘n positiewe fokus mee te werk tot die uitbou van die groot mate van ``goodwill’’ wat daar tog tussen die verskillende bevolkingsgroepe in Suid-Afrika bestaan. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the heroic action of the two Bosman brothers, Pieter (16) and
       Mark (17), who saved two drowning Basotho's from a seething
       Orange River;


   (b)  that the AEB is going to request that the brothers be considered
       for the Wolraad Woltemade medal for courage in times of peace;
       and


   (c)  that the action by the two brothers is of particular
       significance at this time when the country is burdened by a
       cloud of racial polarisation;

(2) deplores the fact that this positive action has received so little publicity in comparison with the negative cases of offences with a possible racial connotation; and

(3) calls on every member of the House as well as the country’s media to co-operate, through positive leadership and a positive focus, in the development of the great degree of goodwill that does exist between the various population groups in South Africa.] Ms T R MODISE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  Popcru has exposed the Western Cape MEC Hennie Bester  for
       playing politics with people's lives instead of dealing
       effectively with gang violence in poor communities on the Cape
       Flats; and


   (b)  Popcru confirmed the ANC's contention that the DP and the New NP
       are using the police, community patrol officers and municipal
       police to safeguard white businesses in low-crime areas, and are
       disregarding  the safety of poor people in high-crime areas; and

(2) calls on the DP and the New NP and their incompetent MEC Bester to stop playing politics with the lives of poor people and to deploy police resources in areas where crime occurs most, not only in areas where their rich constituents live.

Mrs G M BORMAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes that by Christmas this year an additional 400 fully-trained municipal police officers will be patrolling the streets of Cape Town;

(2) congratulates the DA in the Western Cape and the City of Cape Town for co-operating with each other to ensure that all the people of Cape Town live in a safe and secure environment;

(3) notes that the Western Cape government has already set aside R21 million for the training of municipal police officers;

(4) recognises that the ``Bobby on the Beat’’ concept is recognised worldwide as an effective deterrent to crime; and

(5) calls on the other provinces and municipalities of South Africa to follow the example of the DA in the City of Cape Town and the Western Cape.

[Applause.]

Dr O BALOYI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) sadly notes that the HIV infection rate at Diepsloot in Gauteng is between 30% and 40%, which is about 10% higher than the rest of Gauteng;

(2) notes also that research accords this state of affairs to the high percentage of young residents, unemployment and the abundance of sex workers; and

(3) exhorts the health authorities and other stakeholders to strengthen the health education campaign in order to save human lives.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the captain of the South African national women's soccer team,
       Banyana Banyana, Ms Desire Ellis, became the first female soccer
       commentator over the weekend; and


   (b)  she achieved this magnificent feat during Bafana Bafana's
       crucial 2-1 victory over Zimbabwe on Saturday;

(2) congratulates Ms Ellis on her leadership both on and off the field and on pioneering the cause of women in areas previously uncharted by women; and (3) echoes the salute, ``Malibongwe, igama lamakhosikazi’’ in paying tribute to this outstanding national leader and others like her who push the boundaries of excellence ever further.

[Applause.]

Dr P J RABIE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that due to negative political and economic developments, the business confidence index slipped further in April;

(2) further notes that the index has now dropped 7,3% in the past two months, and that confidence is further being eroded by falling consumer demand aided by slower credit extension, retail sales and vehicle sales;

(3) calls upon the Government to express serious concern regarding the recent attacks on SA businesses in Zimbabwe and the clarify the resurfacing of allegations of corruption in the arms procurement process; and

(4) believes that the abovementioned developments must be seen in context regarding the weakening of the rand against the dollar and added inflationary expectations, which may put pressure on interest rates.

[Applause.]

Mr C T FROLICK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) expresses its disgust that the provincial welfare department in the Eastern Cape has lost more than R18 million since January this year through theft and pilferage committed by welfare officials; (2) notes that the effects of such losses are far-reaching, as pensioners who do not receive their grants, most of whom are solely dependent on these grants, do not have the means to meet their basic needs;

(3) notes that in an attempt to curb the wave of fraud and corruption, the department wrongfully struck off the roll close to 100 disability grant recipients and pensioners and that this has resulted in an embarrassing court action to reinstate them; and

(4) calls upon the Minister of Social Development to urgently attend to this horrific situation, which is causing many South Africans to suffer unnecessarily on a daily basis.

Ms B O DLAMINI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the reports in the media about alleged criminal behaviour and unprofessional conduct by some members of the SAPS VIP Protection Unit;

(2) believes that the VIP Protection Unit is an elite unit which should be the pride of the SAPS through high levels of professionalism and efficiency;

(3) congratulates those members of the SAPS VIP Protection Unit and other members of the Police Service for executing their responsibilities diligently; and

(4) calls on the Department of Safety and Security to intensify its efforts to eradicate corruption in the unit and the SAPS in general.

[Applause.]

                      MOTHER'S DAY CELEBRATIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the House -

(1) recognises the very important role that mothers play in a family and in society;

(2) expresses its appreciation for all that mothers do;

(3) wishes all mothers a happy, restful Mother’s Day on Sunday; and

(4) also remembers those mothers who have passed on.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 6 - Government Communication and Information System:

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, hon members, it gives me great pleasure to rise and present to the House the GCIS Vote. For an organisation which was formally launched a mere three years ago, on 18 May 1998, it has notched up some significant advances. While highlighting GCIS’ several achievements, it is important to bear in mind the several key challenges faced by this body and some of the areas it will be attending to in the 2000-2001 financial year.

At the beginning of this year the President, in his state of the nation address, called on South Africans to unite in our active commitment to achieving change. Today there can be no doubt that this country faces several challenges through which it can either emerge as a united nation or persist in the legacy of a country of two nations. In the past year GCIS has been involved in several initiatives to give expression to this Government’s commitment to achieving national unity. This is in stark contrast to the divisive and destructive efforts in the communications sphere by the apartheid regime, which achieved national disunity.

Our recently designed coat of arms is an eloquent manifestation of this democratic approach to communication. In crafting it, we sought not only to dig into the deepest recesses of this land’s history, but also to dignify it with elements from the various tributaries which make up this great nation, South Africa. The national Conference on Racism, where the organising theme was, ``Nation in Dialogue’’, was aimed at galvanising all sectors of South African society in a thoughtful conversation on the scourge of racism which still stalks our beautiful land.

In mentioning the role of GCIS in the international marketing of our country in my address last year, I pointed out that it was a matter of critical importance that we join hands as South Africans to promote our country abroad. This is an issue about our self-esteem as a people. It is about our national identity, and it is about our pride as South Africans.

Most of the trends reported in surveys indicate that there is a growing appreciation of the gains of our transition to democracy. Furthermore, there is confidence in this Government to bring about a better life for all. But to see this transition through, to consolidate this fragile democracy, we need a nation which has been able to overcome its historic fault lines.

Ours is not a unique challenge. The former Prime Minister of Piedmont remarked after the unification of Italy, and I quote: We have made Italy, now we must make Italians.

Now that we have a democratic South African state, we must all become South Africans, proud citizens of a South Africa which revels in its multiplicity of identities, and yet seeks to connect with its African core and destiny. Our very diversity is our strength.

We want a South Africa in which society celebrates the unique attributes that it is blessed with; a South Africa in which the overarching identity of its people derives from the critical things that together we hold dear. In my view, among the symbols of our unity should be the institutions that are provided for in the Constitution, including the bodies of state charged with the regulation of national affairs.

Here we expect not blind loyalty to Government, but a deep commitment to the Constitution of this land and the terms of the settlement which helped us achieve this Constitution. This Government’s vision is a profoundly modern one - the creation of a modern state on the basis of a common commitment to build a better life for all.

In essence, then, this year has to mark the strengthening of the millions of threads which bind us as South Africans; the deepening of our democracy through the strengthening of the political institutions which guarantee our basic rights; greater commitment to the Constitution which is the foundation stone of our democracy; and the desire to let our pride as South Africans shine through for the world to see. The Government, the Opposition, the public at large and the media, all have important roles to play in this endeavour.

In our Vote last year we expressed appreciation of the commitment made by the SA National Editors’ Forum, Sanef, to engage the outcome of the Human Rights Commission, HRC, hearings into racism in the media. The Human Rights Commission entrusted Sanef and the managers of media institutions with the responsibility to address these issues as part of transforming the media into a more professional corps worthy of the title of fourth estate. [Interjections.]

We are pleased to note that Sanef has already held several workshops with the HRC to take this process forward. We take note of Sanef’s intentions to revise the guidelines for the office of the Press Ombudsman. We trust that those who are to be the primary beneficiaries of such an office, the public, will be empowered to make better use of it.

As this process gathers momentum, it should become possible for us to transcend the trappings of innuendo and sensationalism, and together to blaze a new trail under conditions of democracy towards rational debate, criticism that enriches and discourse inspired by the central injunction to build a better life for all.

I am reminded here of a comment made by the respected American journalist Richard Reeves, who, in his book, What the people know: Freedom and the Press, said, and I quote:

We took down politicians and politics without pausing to think that maybe we should be down with them. If we are in decline, it is because we have fallen into the trap of ignoring what government does and focusing on what it has done wrong.

South Africa may not yet have reached those depths, but we must be vigilant, and constantly ask ourselves the question whether what we do in all areas of endeavour, including the media, is driven by the desire to provide a public service to build a better South Africa.

In this context, I express my appreciation to those eminent African businesspeople and professionals who took out an advertisement in the Sunday Times of May 6, 2001, regarding the President. Allow me to quote extracts from that statement:

So vicious, so underhand and so sustained have the attacks on him been that even fair-minded patriotic whites have started asking serious questions about the motive behind these attacks.

We have full confidence in our President. He is intelligent, circumspect and passionate about the condition of our people and our future. We respect his leadership qualities. Yet, he is human and therefore will sometimes behave as such. Where he stumbles, we will hold out a hand. Where he errs, we will criticise and caution, sometimes publicly and sometimes privately, always however from a deep love of our country and people. Under his leadership we have the best Government this country has ever had. He deserves acknowledgement and support. We raise all these issues in order to underline the critical challenge for all of us to reach national consensus on issues that really matter. At the centre of the GCIS mandate is the task of ensuring that South Africans join hands in changing their lives for the better.

The objective of ensuring that all our people, including the poor, have access to information that will make them active participants in the process of change is one that has inspired our work in the past three years. In this regard, a number of critical steps have been taken to improve Government communication. However, we would be misleading this House if we were to pretend that we were anywhere near the accomplishment of this objective.

A government communication system should have a corps of professional communicators, in all departments and all spheres, capable of ensuring that the message of Government, the message of fundamental change, reaches all the people and galvanises them into action. Systems to ensure training and a common methodology across Government have been put in place, but much, much more needs to be done to ensure professionalism in planning and execution.

A government communication system should reflect, in its day-to-day operations, integration and consistency in the content of its messages and creativity in their delivery. Through interdepartmental and other structures, joint planning and implementation have started to find concrete expression. But we would not be true to our profession if we did not continually strive for the level of integration that is way ahead of what has been achieved in the areas of policy planning and implementation.

A government communication system should make its presence felt in all areas of policy discourse across the nation, so that the thinking, the decisions and the practical work of the nation’s elected representatives are fully appreciated by society as a whole. Strategies and practical programmes in this regard have improved over the years, creating better possibilities for proactive interventions and the necessary rapid response capacities. But too many of our people are compelled to rely on sensation, innuendo and sound bytes as the basis of knowledge on critical social issues.

In brief, we have started on the journey towards an effective government communication system, but the road ahead is still long, and negotiating its torturous bends will require even greater determination and effort on the part of all communicators. Central among the tasks we face is ensuring direct communication between Government and the people. We therefore place a high premium on the Imbizo campaign, a style of governance that ensures interaction between members of the executive and citizens. We have started, this year, to organise more and more of such events, be it in the launch of water projects, in the introduction of the legislation campaign for taxis, in the stand of the Housing Department at the Rand Easter Show or the consultations with the elderly concerning issues that affect them.

Just over a week ago, President Thabo Mbeki paid a visit to the Northern Province for such comprehensive interaction with the people, as the first of such visits, which will take him to all the provinces. During this visit, the President interacted with over 25 000 people, having had discussions at nine meetings. He visited six projects and went live on a phone-in programme, simulcast on three radio stations and regional television, reaching over 1,5 million people and, as the Sunday Times wrote: ``A sense of history pervaded the visit’’. Another critical element of Government’s communication with the public is the initiative to set up multi-purpose community centres. To date, 10 such centres have become fully operational, and we are striving to ensure that by the end of the 2000-2003 financial year at least one such centre should be operational in each district of the country.

I want to use the opportunity to thank the Minister of Home Affairs for opening the MPCC in Mpuluzi, as well as other Ministers who have taken the project to heart. I also convey my thanks to the Minister of Public Works for the sterling efforts made by her department to renovate and, where necessary, construct new sites for the MPCCs, and the Minister of Public Service and Administration for the efforts of her department to integrate this important endeavour into the shared service delivery programme of Government. My deepest gratitude I extend to the various provincial governments, who have spared no effort in ensuring that this programme is successfully implemented.

Direct and effective communication of the public also means the preparation of products that are as relevant in their content as they are attractive in their form. In as much as there may be weaknesses, we are proud of the fact that examples of good products abound across Government. Among these are the multimedia interventions by the GCIS about the state of the nation address by the President, encompassing radio packages, leaflets and posters, special ministerial briefings, and a link-up with community radio stations and participation by Ministers in radio programmes, in as many of our official languages as possible.

The challenge of ensuring dissemination of objective information, on balance, within South African society, is also closely linked to the question of the ownership of the platforms for the generation of news and analyses. In the last Vote, I dealt extensively with the step towards the creation of a media development and diversity agency. The Government has embarked on the road to an MDDA, to assist in redressing the imbalances in media concentration, which persist, seven years into this democracy.

The GCIS released a draft position paper in December, after a range of meetings with most of the stakeholders concerned. The process, since, has been marked by in-depth consultations, including the welcome and highly appreciated initiative by the Portfolio Committee on Communications, in March this year.

I am glad to report to this House that the call I made for greater flexibility in achieving an objective that we are all committed to, has been warmly received across the board. Steadily, we should arrive at even greater degrees of consensus, and this should open the way for the amendment of the draft position paper and, in time, if needed, the submission to this august House, of necessary legislation.

The introspection that has underpinned the discussion around the MDDA is required in even greater measure, with regard to how we project the reality in our country to the outside world. Since the last Vote, the International Marketing Council has been appointed. Government is profoundly grateful for the single-minded commitment that has been shown by the eminent leaders from the private sector, who have given of their time and expertise in serving their country in this particular area. Again, in the IMC, the expression of the power of joint efforts by citizens inspired by their love for their country, stands out for all to see. Already powerful movement of these united efforts is starting to gather momentum across the land. Many private companies have offered their services for this purpose and one hears daily of initiatives being spontaneously taken to promote the boundless energy and creativity of South Africa unlimited.

The Proudly South African campaign launched by Nedlac, backed by members of that partnership, the tourism campaign of Satour embodied in the Circle of Sunshine initiative, the creative efforts to attract even greater investment by South Africans in their own country, all these and others are starting to work on the basis of a common approach, which highlights the best that South Africa can offer.

I am confident that this House, in its various components, will give the lead to the nation on this critical matter. We should all encourage our constituencies to work in the interests of South Africa first. We must use the platforms afforded to us to advance the objectives of our country, rather than seek to attract attention to ourselves by undermining the nation’s institutions and efforts.

These are some of the core tasks undertaken by the GCIS. They underpin the approach to the many campaigns the Government is engaged, including the challenge of spreading the message about HIV/Aids, promotion of the rights and obligations enshrined in our Constitution, entrenching the co-operate identity of the Government and specific projects in the areas of economic growth and job creation, prevention and combating of crime, rural development and urban renewal.

To fulfil all these responsibilities, the GCIS continues to improve itself as a young and vibrant member of the public service family. In this regard, I should say that I am proud to be associated with a department which, in three quick years, has made tremendous strides in building a creative establishment representative of the South African population.

Of the 318 positions currently filled, Africans make up 68,5%, whites 20,1%, coloureds 7,9% and Indians 3,5%. I am pleased to report that the level of gender representivity has improved tremendously. Women comprise 48,1% of the entire staff, with women making up 41,7% of senior management. African, Indian and coloured women make up almost 30% of senior management. To put this in another way, 7 out of every 10 women in senior management are black. [Applause.]

The percentage of disabled is almost 1%. While it is short of the 2% objective set out for the Public Service, it is an area that management has undertaken to look into with a mind to ensure representation in the management echelons.

I wish to express my warm appreciation to Mr Joel Netshitenzhe the CEO of the GCIS, his deputy Mr Abba Omar and the senior management and staff of the GCIS for their sterling work and contributions during the past year. May I also thank the chairperson, Mr N Kekana, and all members of the portfolio committee. It remains a pleasure and a privilege to work with them. It is therefore with pride and confidence that I commend this budget of the GCIS for adoption. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Chairperson, there are striking similarities between the programme for the GCIS for this year and the analysis titled ``The balance of forces’’ in the new edition of the ANC’s quarterly Umrhabulo.

The party organ in Umrhabulo asks for improvements in Government and ANC communications, in order to pursue the unity of the motive forces of the national democratic revolution and to manage the secondary contradictions. [Interjections.] More and more ways should be found, it says, to ensure that the messages of transformation reach the people without relying only on the conventional established media institutions.

Now taxpayers’ money is not appropriated to pursue the crumbling unity of the motive forces of the national democratic revolution, especially when the secondary contradictions have produced a challenge to its leader. Yet, sure enough, the GCIS now wearing a Government hat and the taxpayer’s wallet, likewise says it is critical that Government should interact in an unmediated way with the public. The reasons for this unmediated approach is that the media says the party organ is mostly owned or controlled in terms of content by forces whose agenda is either to weaken the ANC or to shape an ANC that satisfies its interests. The GCIS version states that the media opposes social transformation and is bent on a single issue, which is an anti-Mbeki and anti-Government crusade.

At the same time, the GCIS states that any progress on the part of the media to take heed of the findings of the HRC on racism in the media and to focus on the critical issues of transformation will help towards creating a truly informed public.

In other words, a media which supports a new racial oligarchy will be acceptable. The ANC ideologues do not believe all that stuff about white racism. Anybody who believes them is a sucker. The transformation that they accuse us of voting against - ie the ANC ideologues accusing the other side of the House of voting against - does not mean transformation, but revolutionary change away from the compromises that the ANC had to make at the point of liberation and I quote: ... when they held only elements of state power''. In other words, the constitutional settlements that members and I worked at and believe in are for the Mbeki ANC only - and I quote from Umrabulo -a beachhead for new revolutionary advances’’. The party organ tells members so. That is what transformation means - the transformation of both the media and the country.

Why do the members think that the Human Rights Commission tried to redefine the freedom of expression in its media racism report? It is really a shocker as it comes from the body that is supposed to protect the Constitution. But I have yet to see the media protest. When the media watchdog wakes up from time to time it is a relief because the other watchdog, Parliament, is being neutralised as we speak. Umrabulo celebrates the post-1999 mastery of Parliament to pursue transformation. It would like nothing better than to do an Andrew Feinstein on the media, thus shifting the balance of forces. [Applause.]

Mr N N KEKANA: Chairperson, I am really taken aback by what Madam Smuts has said. At least what is comforting is that she reads Umrabulo. She needs to do more. However, I doubt if she will qualify to be a member of the ANC, because we would have to take her through a lot of scrutiny. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr N N KEKANA: The GCIS Vote has the staggering amount of R50 million in its budget to be spent on international marketing. It is by far the biggest line item on the budget and there is a compelling reason for that amount to be allocated to the GCIS - simply to improve the image of our country abroad. We need to remodel our image because of the negative stories that are fed to the international community about South Africa and the African continent as a whole.

In his introduction to the Unesco publication Many Voices, One World, Sean MacBride said that there was no magic solution to efface, by a single stroke, the existing complicated and interconnected web of communication problems. I earnestly believe that the GCIS, with its currently proposed budget, will be able to address, in many strokes, the negative swings of public mood that is largely the doing of bearers of bad news.

There are South Africans who are bearers of bad news, including those who left the country after 1994, those who could not be governed by black savages apparently, and those who regard the ANC leadership as having African venality and is incompetent, like the rest in the continent. Those forces are there in London, Washington, Sydney and other major centres of the world. They ululate the utterance of the DA leadership every time they paint a negative picture of our country and help destroy our country’s image without fail.

The Government has to spend a great deal of financial resources to undo, negate and rectify the bad press which emanates from those do not have the best interests of our country at heart. If one throws dirt into a well, one pollutes the water for those who require to drink it. There is a saying in Sesotho that goes - members will have to pardon my French: Go nyela sediba sa metse. [To poison one’s own well.] I agree with the GCIS. South Africa can no longer afford the default positioning by the media or indeed by those who are persistently vociferous and passionate only about matters that are negative in our society.

Indeed, there are those among us who wilfully and deliberately campaign to rob from and ruin for our people the sweet fruit of their hard-won freedom that they are finally able to enjoy today. To what end I do not know, except perhaps that they are motivated by blinkered political interests.

We need to realise that often the only exposure people in other countries have to South Africa are articles written by those who portray our country as a rapidly decaying democracy, most recently depicted as an autocracy besieged by crime and HIV/Aids, over which Government has no control and that it has no desire to combat, a country plagued with unmanageable corruption, which Government encourages - really no different from any other African country.

These are, indeed, the words of bearers of bad news. Is it any wonder that when tourists do visit, they are surprised that South Africa is not on the verge of collapse? The reality quickly defies the erroneous images portrayed by an irresponsible and sensational media, which is either acting unwittingly or is downright ignorant of its impact or simply has no concern for the interests of our people.

It is in the national interest that we should encourage foreign direct investment in and tourism to South Africa. Do hon members for a minute imagine that such negatively portrayed exposure might accomplish these objectives? A definite ``no!’’ On the contrary, they create fear and reluctance in the hearts and minds of potential investors and tourists and, in fact, discourage their business and visits outright.

In an attempt to diffuse the impact of an irresponsible media campaign, the GCIS has had to establish the International Marketing Council to rectify these misconceptions and to promote international marketing initiatives, foreign direct investment, export and tourism. We should thank those South Africans from the business community and former politicians who are working together with our Government, saying that they are proud to be South Africans. We as Parliament must commend these noble leaders of our country and deepen our understanding of the bold steps they are taking to market South Africa abroad.

An advertisement entitled ``The media versus the President’’ was placed in the Sunday Times of 7 May 2001 by respected African professionals in our country. It is worth noting in this debate today that this advertisement could not have come at a more appropriate time. The time is nigh for the leadership from our own communities to speak out against the often blatant misrepresentation and outright derision perpetuated by the enemies of our democracy. [Interjections.] Our leadership in the country must be dedicated and vocal on matters of national importance. I applaud this effort and encourage each and every one of us in this Chamber here today, each and every member of civil society, and each and every South African to take up the baton and participate in this effort, determined and undaunted, until truth prevails.

What the country needs are patriots, not bearers of bad news. Regrettably, our professionals do not control newspapers and neither are their views on national debates particularly sought or solicited. Apart from a sprinkle of comments in this or that column or radio show, sources quoted in the media, deplorably, still reflect the views of the previously dominant groups. Despite an abundance of information and plurality of opinion, only a few are given the platform to express their views.

Diversity, I argue, is not plurality. These leaders had to resort to placing an advertisement in the newspaper in order to have their views published, without compromising the content and message through editing and spiking in the so-called interests of the style of the said paper or magazine. I agree fully with the analysis. Their views are compelling and pertinent. They are a reflection of the state of the media in our country today.

However, what dismays and disappoints so profoundly is the response of the DA to this advertisement. Just yesterday, Ntate Seremane also referred to this. True to their very nature and apartheid upbringing, every member of the DA without exception firmly believes and is convinced that the advertisement can only be the product of a conspiracy.

We had another conspiracy here today. On Tuesday, in the committee, Madam Smuts intimated that the language and style of the advertisement reflected an ANC influence. I want to ask Madam Smuts to consider for a moment how patronising and disdainful the implications of her assertion that those men and women who exerted the effort, time and money on placing this advertisement do not have the ability to think for themselves.

This attitude begs the question whether the DA believes that the domain of critical thinking is their privileged terrain only. Had the message been a different one, perhaps one espousing the views of the opposition, would the DA then still be so alarmist about the revelation that black people are in fact able to engage society? With due respect, does the DA have the propensity to understand how loaded their insinuations are?

Loaded? Yes, of course, with all sorts of racial undertones with regard to incompetence, lack of intelligence, initiative and the head-like mentality of the black majority. This will certainly expose their strategies further. They have been relying on what they perceive to be this unquestioning so- called silent black majority mentality so that they might use their ownership and power in the media to sow discontent among our people.

Well, the message is abundantly clear. The people of South Africa are ``gatvol’’ and will engage publicly, especially now that they are bored with the sensational, titillating and destructive strategies of the DA’s propaganda machine. Of course, the DA needs and wants to believe that the ANC is behind the pronouncement. To do anything else is to betray the apartheid conditioning through which they have arrived at the family-held view that the place of black people is to be silent and passive.

I regret to inform Madam Smuts that the majority of South Africans who happen to be of African origin can think for themselves. They do not need the ANC to tell them what to think or say. Moreover, they will not stand by and allow her ilk to vilify and crucify the leadership of our country, our President and our Government. They have reached the end of their tether. [Interjections.] They have had it with the campaign to undermine our institution of democracy and those who have been democratically elected - if I may remind them - by those very people the DA appears to scorn and scoff at, to represent them in these institutions.

The leadership of the DA and those bearers of bad news must respect the Constitution, the instrument of our democracy and the institutions of our democratic dispensation, regardless of who occupy them. No individual or person entrusted with a position of power is beyond criticism. On the contrary, constructive criticism is a necessary ingredient for our young democracy.

However, what the DA and its bunch of hoodlums say under the guise of freedom of expression is more often than not counterproductive and an attempt to undermine our democracy and the interest of our people. What we are calling for is respect for the institutions of our democracy. We are calling for common courtesy and dignified behaviour. I implore each and every South African to please criticise and contribute in trying to influence the direction of policy process, but also to be aware that we are constructing, not destroying.

The critics of Government policy must have a sense of balance and must not just concentrate on their own class or social position exclusively. Government has a mandate, a responsibility and moral obligation to serve the wider interest of society. If the critics of Government are constructive, and we will most certainly consider every opinion that is sincerely expressed, then Government can deliver its mandate more efficiently and effectively to serve the broad public interest.

The media has a responsibility to make a positive contribution to the development of our country. The media should not regard itself as a counterweight to a strong and determined ANC Government. There are those who believe, wrongly, that the ANC is too powerful and that its strength should be diluted. Through their publications, they have adopted a posture that negates everything that the ANC-led Government stands for and does.

However, the damage caused by apartheid colonialism in our country can only be redressed under the leadership of a dedicated, principled political movement. Political stability is possible today in South Africa because the majority of our people believe in the leadership of the ANC to deliver a better life for all.

While there is a need to check on those in authority, to act as a counterweight to the ANC simply because of the weaknesses and the inability of Mr Tony Leon and his party, is backward-looking. We believe in the independence and the freedom of the press in our country. We fought for these freedoms, and we are not about to renege on them. We also believe strongly that the media should occupy its rightful place in our country and provide information that contributes to the development of a proud South African nation.

The media must also assist in ensuring that our socioeconomic political system gains strength and stability. The media should report the truth and be a platform for dialogue and a healthy exchange of ideas. Furthermore, the media should be informative, educational and engaging, as well as cultivate a habit of connecting cause and effect. We are calling for professionalism in the media, but we also expect our Government media liaison persons to be professional and understand the needs of the media.

The GCIS is under the direction and leadership of Minister Essop Pahad. The CEO, Mr Joel Netshitenzhe and the entire management are working very hard to build a dedicated communication and information service. They deserve more than we are allocating them today, and we support this budget of the GCIS. [Applause.]

Ms S C VOS: Chairperson, hon members, when approaching this debate, our point of departure in the IFP is the understanding that the GCIS neither formulates nor implements Government policy. Its role is to use communication as a multifaceted strategic tool to facilitate the service delivery and access to resources designed and approved by this Government.

By its own admission, the GCIS has found the communication environment challenging, to put it mildly. However, one gains a sense that under the very skilful leadership of Mr Joel Netshitenzhe, Government communication is beginning to develop, as it should, into a two-way process, both from Government to the people and vice versa.

When one examines the work and the vastly increased capacity of the GCIS since its recent inception only a few years ago, the IFP has no doubt whatsoever that its leadership is comprised of hugely competent and hard- working professionals. The mission statement of the GCIS and its vision, objectives and strategies appear, in many ways, faultless. The devil is, of course, always in the detail. Nevertheless, for some in our position, an effective government communication team, comprised of people who know what they are doing, is not always seen as a good thing.

All over the world, government communicators are accused, in one way or another, of overtly or covertly promoting ruling party policies and ideologies, ahead of nice, neutral, bland government outreach. We have seen this happen here today - Ms Smuts set the ball rolling. The IFP believes it would be naive not to recognise these natural strains, and accepts that for many communicators representing the Government of the day, it is a hard act to walk the fine line of fairness and objectivity required.

Mr Netshitenzhe and his team give us the impression of being well aware of the tension on the tightrope upon which they operate. The fact of the matter is, however, that following the collapse of the old Sacs, Government communications are now in the hands of persons who appear to know what is required to develop and co-ordinate positive outreach, both nationally and internationally, and this is precisely why the IFP is supporting this Vote.

We congratulate the GCIS on the slow but steady roll-out of multipurpose community centres and its liaison with provincial governments in this regard. Numerous other projects are worthy of mention and past and future programmes aimed at actively involving our citizens in recognising a long- treasured IFP philosophy, namely that self-help and self-reliance are the keys to ensuring sustainable development and that citizens and Government must work in partnership to effect workable solutions to our myriad problems. The IFP supports a recent Cabinet initiative to allow the GCIS to monitor and co-ordinate Government communications more effectively. We are also encouraged by early indications that Government communicators may, in future, be consulted earlier, rather than later, in policy processes.

Finally, the IFP has sympathy with the viewpoint expressed by Mr Netshitenzhe that for South Africa to emerge as a cohesive nation, proud of itself and its people, and a country respected internationally, it is important that we reflect ourselves positively. We believe he is right when he claims that the tone and the intensity of the vitriol heaped on this Government and its leadership by certain sections of the media, for whatever reason, is not helping the positive development of our democracy.

We do not see this viewpoint as being antimedia, antifreedom of expression or whatever. It is merely a statement of fact and a wake-up call for all of us, each in our own way, to consider ways and means to reverse this very serious situation, starting with our own attitudes and utterances.

Time and again, throughout the struggle for liberation in our country, our people have risen to challenge crises. Now it is time to again reassert and communicate our pride in being South Africans, and to rise and address all of the challenges this entails. [Applause.]

Mr R D PIETERSE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and the DP, it is an absolute honour and pleasure for me to participate in this debate. It is this debate that will ensure that the mandate of the people is adhered to and carried out. The people of this country have elected the Government and have the right to know what their Government is doing.

Maar dit moet gedoen word sonder enige ongevraagde invloede en interpretasies, soos somtyds oorgedra deur die hoofstroom media. Die regeringskommunikasie-en-inligtingdiens, wat so ongeveer drie jaar gelede gestig is, is presies die organisasie wat kan verseker die Regering kommunikeer regstreeks met die mense. Dit is ‘n organisasie waar politiek nie plek het nie, maar waar slegs die Regering se voorneme en besluite aan die mense oorgedra word.

Ek is vandag trots en ek glo ook elke lid van die Parlement is trots, ongeag party, om met die regeringskommunikasie-en-inligtingdiens geassosieer te word, want hulle is mense wat hul werk uitleef met die nodige professionaliteit. Aan die voorpunt van hierdie knap span is natuurlik minister Essop Pahad wat bygestaan word deur ‘n kommunikeerder van die hoogste gehalte, mnr Joel Netshitenzhe.

Baie kere leef ons asof daar nog nooit apartheid was nie, asof daar nooit swart en wit was nie, asof daar nooit baas en klaas was nie, asof daar nog nooit verdrukking was nie, en asof hulle, wie by al hierdie dinge betrokke was, nie bestaan nie. Ek glo eers wanneer ons al hierdie dinge erken, kan ons begin om dinge reg te maak in die land.

Die media, vernaamlik die geskrewe media, was van die voorbokke wat ons gebreinspoel het rondom die rooi en swart gevaar. Ek kan nie onthou nie … [Tussenwerpsels.] Stil, Boy! Ek kom by jou! Ek kan nie onthou of enige van die hoofstroom media te eniger tyd van die regering van die dag, die NP, terwyl hulle in hul gekkeparadys geleef het, verskil het nie en dit nog boonop gepubliseer het nie. Dit is dieselfde media wat hulle vandag voorhou as die groot verdedigers van die demokrasie, asof hulle die uitvinders van die demokrasie was. Net omdat hulle die media is, gee dit hulle nie die alleenreg op reg en verkeerd nie, gee dit hulle nie die alleenreg op intelligensie nie, en gee dit hulle nie die alleenreg om te kritiseer nie.

Die demokrasie aanvaar dat daar geen heilige koeie is nie. Met ander woorde, as die media ander wil kritiseer, moet hulle aanvaar dat ander ook die reg het om hulle te kritiseer. Die vraag is natuurlik: het hulle die moed om daardie kritiek te publiseer, en ook nie op bladsy drie nie, maar op die voorblad, waar hulle ander mense kritiseer? Wanneer dit wel gedoen word, moet dit nie gesien word as inmenging met vryheid van spraak nie. Geen vryheid is absoluut nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[But this should be done without any uncalled-for influences and interpretations, as are sometimes conveyed by the mainstream media. The Government Communication and Information Service, which was established about three years ago, is precisely the organisation that can ensure that the Government communicates directly with the people. It is an organisation in which politics has no place, but which only conveys the Government’s intentions and decisions to the people.

I am proud today, and I believe that every member of Parliament, irrespective of party affiliation, is proud to be associated with the GCIS, because they are people who perform their work with the necessary professionalism. At the forefront of this capable team there is Minister Essop Pahad, of course, who is assisted by a communicator of the highest calibre, Mr Joel Netshitenzhe.

We often live as if there never was apartheid, as if there never was black and white, as if there never was master and servant, as if there never was any oppression, and as if those persons who were involved in all these things, did not exist. I believe that only once we have acknowledged all these things can we start rectifying matters in this country.

The media, namely the printed media, was one of the ringleaders that brainwashed us about the red peril and the black peril. I cannot remember … [Interjections.] Quiet, Boy! I am coming to you! I cannot remember whether any of the mainstream media at any stage disagreed with the government of the day, the NP, while they were living in their fools’ paradise, and went so far as to publish it. This is the same media that is presenting itself today as the great defender of democracy, as if they discovered democracy. Just because they are the media does not give them the sole right to distinguish between right and wrong, does not give them the sole right to intelligence, and does not give them the sole right to criticise.

Democracy accepts that there are no sacred cows. In other words, if the media wants to criticise others, they should accept that others also have the right to criticise them. The question is, of course: Do they have the courage to publish that criticism, and not on page three either, but on the front page, where they criticise other people? When this is, in fact, done it should not be seen as interfering with freedom of speech. No freedom is absolute.]

Remember, the ANC was, and still is, at the forefront in the struggle for freedom and democracy. Yet, the same media that enjoys so much freedom today is leading the attack against the ANC-led Government, the ANC-led alliance, and trying, on a daily basis, to play the Communist Party off against the ANC, the ANC against Cosatu, the media against the ANC, the people against the ANC, etc. They even have the audacity to suggest that my President, the President of the people, is not fit to rule. Who the hell are they to suggest that? They are also ably assisted by the bunch of cross- dressers sitting on my left-hand side, led by a half-man. [Laughter.] These attacks also normally take place when there is no credible opposition.

The media then consciously takes up the position of opposition, even if there is nothing to oppose, or they are sucked in by the fact that they are enjoying so much freedom they never had before and do not know what to do with it. Is this the political agenda of the owners of these big media houses?

Ek wil herhaal: Met persvryheid en vryheid van spraak kom verantwoordelikheid. [I want to repeat: Press freedom and freedom of expression come with responsibility.]

We do not want the media to be the lapdogs or mouthpiece of the Government, but to be responsible. The GCIS has no intention of taking over the media, but would rather work with them to ensure that all the people, whom we are supposed to serve, receive proper, unfettered information at the earliest possible time, at the lowest cost or no cost at all.

The GCIS has started to communicate in a very creative and unparalleled way to all South Africans through the print and electronic media, using pamphlets, booklets, newspapers and radio. The GCIS has now embarked on making multipurpose communication centres available to a number of regions across the country. They will establish approximately 15 of these centres during this year alone, and where they have already been established these centres are very popular amongst the people. These centres obviously go beyond the ordinary use of the telephone. They give people access to a world that has or knows no boundaries.

Die mense sê dankie aan die GCIS. Toe daar ‘n oproep van ons mense gekom het, vernaamlik van die platteland, vroue, gestremdes en die hoofstroom van eertydse en huidige onderdruktes, het die GCIS dit gehoor en duidelik geantwoord. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The people say thank you to the GCIS. When there was an appeal from our people, notably from the rural areas, women, the disabled and the mainstream of the previously and presently oppressed, the GCIS heard it and replied clearly.]

A process to establish an agency has been initiated by the GCIS, and they are now in the final stages of setting up the Media Development and Diversity Agency - MDDA. The MDDA will be a partnership between Government and the private sector and, very importantly, it will be an independent and statutory body. While being at arm’s length from Government, it will be governed by a board and be accountable to Parliament. The MDDA will benefit all South Africans and will lend support, particularly to community and nonprofit media by offering training programmes and assisting small commercial media, particularly community radio, etc.

Die gemeenskapsradio is natuurlik baie belangrik in ons lewens en lig ons in omtrent dinge wat ons raak binne ‘n spesifieke groep. Die hantering van lisensie-aansoeke moet bespoedig raak en so gou moontlik uitgebrei word. Icasa doen goeie werk in dié verband, maar moet ook so gou as moontlik versterk word. Ek wil die GCIS tog aanraai om meer betrokke te raak by die gemeenskapsradio. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [Of course, community radio is very important in our lives and informs us about things that affect us in a specific group. The handling of licence applications should be expedited and extended as soon as possible. Icasa is doing good work in this regard, but should also be strengthened as soon as possible. I want to advise the GCIS to become more involved in community radio.]

These community radio stations are facing difficulties. They are under- resourced and are concerned about skills, marketing and funding in general. But, most importantly, they need permanency regarding their licences. They need all our help. Very often the only information that gets to the people from the Government is through the GCIS and my constituency office.

Again, I want to thank the GCIS, which is run by an unbiased and absolutely professional Mr Joel Netshitenzh and his impressive team.

Baie dankie aan die agb Minister Essop Pahad vir die voortreflike werk wat hy doen. Die ANC ondersteun hierdie Begrotingspos. [Thank you very much to hon Minister Essop Pahad for the outstanding work he is doing. The ANC supports this Vote.]

Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Mr Chairperson, hon members, today we live in an age in which information and knowledge is power. Information via easy and accessible communication is important. The Government Communication and Information System has a vision: making an indispensable and widely valued contribution to society, working with Government for a better life for all and meeting Government’s needs, especially the public’s information needs. With this vision it has to provide leadership in Government and communities, and keep the public informed of Government’s implementation of its mandate.

The GCIS strategies focus on informing the public and developing government communication systems. This will be done through the building of multipurpose community centres in all provinces. So far ten centres have been opened, and these are located in the Eastern Cape, Mpumalanga, the Northern Cape, Gauteng, QwaQwa, the Eastern Cape, the Northern Province and the Western Cape, to mention but a few.

The MPCCs are to ensure that the Government brings information about its policies, its programmes, the rights of women, men, youth and disabled persons to the community. The centres will bring information about job opportunities, training people how to protect themselves from diseases such as Aids, and how to get bursaries, pensions, and birth certificates. These centres will also provide the people with the opportunity to tell Government what they want.

One of the principles of the ANC-led Government is about people’s participation. The process which led to the building of the centres reflects that. The centres will also be able to provide much-needed social services, something which we take for granted.

During the GCIS presentation to the Portfolio Committee on Communications, it was mentioned that an MPCC in the area between Port St Johns and Umtata was being visited by approximately 300 people every day for services such as, for example, applications for ID books. Our people in the remote rural areas will now be able to have access to all kinds of services by just pressing a button. Now, for the first time, the areas mentioned above will have the opportunity to participate in the information technology revolution.

No longer do our people have to travel far, stand in queues and wait ages for information or to receive much-needed documents such as ID books and birth certificates. Now, at the press of a button they can receive documents via the latest technology, namely, the public information terminal, a machine that can produce these documents.

I enjoy reading the quote taken from Bua Magazine published by the GCIS, which says, and I quote:

No longer will we have to be singing Siyaya ePitoli [We are going to Pretoria], because Pretoria has finally come to us.

[Applause.] That is so true.

One concern about the MPCCs is accessibility. The buildings may be accessible, but information and the programmes are not. One example was that during the presentation to the committee, the lights had to be switched off to enable them to present the video. As a deaf Member of Parliament, my eyes are my ears and, therefore, I cannot have all the lights switched off.

A recommendation was made to the effect that in order to make the video tape more accessible it should be captioned or subtitled, or a sign language interpreter should be at the video presentation. Now the question is asked: Is the information provided by the GCIS accessible to all the people of South Africa, such as those who are blind or partially sighted, or those who cannot read or who are dyslexic? Provision must be made for those people with disabilities. The answer to my question was that they would continue to work with the Office on the Status of Disabled People in the President’s Office. This office would be able to advise the GCIS about all the technologies that are advancing very fast.

Those who cannot read or write will need to be provided with audio equipment or tape cassettes. The language used in this information must be accessible to all South Africans. For example, in the Western Cape, documents and literature must not only be available in English or Afrikaans, but must also be translated into isiXhosa. The language must also be simplified so that all South Africans can understand what our Government is doing.

During the apartheid years information was suppressed and nonexistent to our people, especially those in the rural areas. All of that has now changed, and Government is making an effort so that information is more accessible and available. As the GCIS indicated, for a long time President Thabo Mbeki has said that the Government must have a one-stop centre in order that information could be accessible. The idea behind the MPCCs is that they will be served by local, provincial and national government, as well as parastatals, NGOs, CBOs and the private sector. This is also in line with our Government’s Batho Pele programme, which means ``people first’’, in which we emphasise that only quality services will be made available to our people.

It is also important that the universal service agencies, Telkom and community radio stations, as well as other governmental departments, should also be involved with the MPCCs, so that we can adopt a much more integrated approach. I would like to add that what I have noted is that the GCIS report says that 0,9% of disabled people are employed there. I would like to recommend that that figure be increase to 2%, and I would like to see this happen within the next year.

I would also like to recommend that the GCIS uses us disabled people as consultants. I want to take this opportunity to compliment and congratulate the GCIS on the sterling work that they have done. However, I would like to see much more. I also want to see more centres being set up so that more disabled people can have access. The work to provide information to our people continues. Power to our people!

I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate and wish all mothers here in Parliament a happy Mother’s Day on Sunday. [Applause.]

Mr F T MASERUMULE: Chairperson, Comrade Minister, the CEO of the GCIS, his deputy and their colleagues, my colleagues in the Portfolio Committee on Communications, hon members, we need to remind ourselves that we are dealing with a living legacy, namely communication, which is, indeed, a life and death question. This is the most fundamental question faced by the South African people, that is communication, a living legacy, the right to know, the right to express oneself and the right to be listened to.

My focus, therefore, will be on the President’s Imbizo campaign launched in the Northern Province on 5 May. For those who were historically disadvantaged and could not learn other languages, imbizo/pitso is a gathering of minds, a gathering where people come together to share ideas, to share warmth, to strengthen one another emotionally and spiritually, and, above all, to comfort one another, particularly those in distress. This is communication, a living legacy. This is what human nature is made of.

I hope I would not be far off base if I were to say that the President has shown, in practical terms, what the African Renaissance is all about. Rural people in the Northern Province, simple, ordinary, average-minded South Africans, demand recognition of the fact that they are a reality and that they have a role to play in shaping the future of this beautiful country.

Americans have a very exciting way of describing people who have everything, including dust, but are never satisfied. They say: ``Do not be fooled by the silence and the cleanness of running water, there are crocodiles inside.’’

If I were to quote from one of the most time-tested documents of the congress movement, produced in 1955, the living organism, the Freedom Charter:

… South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white, and … no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people.

If one were to unbundle this statement alone, one would begin to appreciate the daunting and convoluted processes of the tasks behind the drawing up and the adoption of the statement by the congress movement.

For those who care to follow historical events as they unfold, a house-to- house campaign was embarked upon to talk to families individually as to what kind of a South Africa they would want to live in. Much as information technology has developed to these levels of sophistication, it still remains to be proven otherwise that person-to-person, shoulder-to-shoulder communication has a huge, positive impact. Here one experiences the warmth generated by eye contact, body language and patience, especially when one talks to people who, unfortunately, are not at one’s level when it comes to understanding issues.

This type of communication enables one to acquire certain levels of education without paying school fees. The current information technological development has made it easier for us to communicate faster with people at a striking distance, but it will never replace person-to-person communication, unless it can be convincingly persuaded otherwise.

For each of us who are peasants like myself, the establishment of the MPCCs out there in the remote areas will be an improvement. One goes a long way to improve communication between us and the Government, because we rely, at most, on our two feet. One begins to wonder about people with disabilities who cannot walk a distance. How will they communicate with one another if they are separated by distance?

Let me hastily assure members of this House that before they begin to contemplate matters in terms of figures, like those concerning a school- going child during exams, our demands in the rural areas are not too huge. We only demand conditions conducive to our own development, otherwise the rest we are capable of doing ourselves. Hon members should stop saying that living in the rural areas is too expensive. They should ask us, the people who are directly affected by these conditions.

Now the fundamental question as such is that one does not have to waffle about this. All of us in this House, irrespective of where we come from, support the GCIS programme, in order to make it possible for rural masses to have access to information necessary for their development. There will no need, otherwise, for shacks and road accidents, because centres of development are too far from us.

In conclusion, I wish to congratulate the Minister, the GCIS and my colleagues in the committee for the sterling work they have done on this. I just want to say to everybody: Vumani bo? [Do you agree?]

HON MEMBERS: Siyavuma! [We agree.]

Mr J J DOWRY: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, different positive aspects came out of the report by the CEO of the GCIS, such as the establishment of ten multipurpose community centres in various provinces, as well as the planned media development and diversity agency. The MDDA is not unique to South Africa, and it is important to change the media environment and to ensure that development communication becomes a reality, especially in a country like ours.

Diversiteit in media-eienaarskap word deur die Regering gesien as ‘n poging om die mediamaatskappye soos Naspers, Times Media en ander te verbreed, ten spyte daarvan dat die groepe reeds in agtergeblewe gebiede teen ‘n groot verlies betrokke is. Die bevordering van mediadiversiteit is natuurlik ‘n belangrike grondbeginsel van die demokrasie. Die aanpak en verwesenliking van die ideaal verg egter deeglike besinning. So byvoorbeeld is die volhoubaarheid van media-ondernemings ‘n belangrike kriterium waaraan voldoen moet word. Die vraag is: Kan die MDDA volhou word of gaan dit ook ‘n kwessie wees soos die agt gemeenskapsradiodienste wat reeds gelisensieerd is en waarvan slegs twee nog kop bo water hou? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Diversity in media ownership is viewed by the Government as an attempt to expand the media companies like Naspers, Times Media and others, in spite of the fact that the groups are already involved in disadvantaged areas at a significant loss. Of course the promotion of media diversity is an important basic principle of democracy. However, tackling and realising this ideal requires thorough consideration. In this regard, for example, the sustainability of media enterprises is an important criterion which must be met. The question is: Can the MDDA be sustained or is this also going to be a case like that of the eight community radio services which have already been licensed and of which only two are still keeping their heads above water.]

A very important factor that could enable the MDDA to succeed is independence. The MDDA will relate to the media and can only provide viable and quality development and diversity to the media environment if its independence is fully guaranteed. Therefore the MDDA should be free from Government intervention and its mandate should be crystal clear. If, as planned, the Government will fund the MDDA to the tune of 40% of the R60 million the agency will need every year, its independence is already compromised, unless arm’s-length mechanisms are carefully built in.

Die plan is verder om ook deur die MDDA R46 miljoen per jaar aan gemeenskapsradio te bestee, terwyl Icasa slegs R30 miljoen kry vir dieselfde doel. Dit is een geval waar die mandaat aan die MDDA asook aan Icasa nie duidelik onderskeibaar is nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The plan is furthermore also to spend R46 million per year on community radio through the MDDA, while Icasa receives only R30 million for the same purpose. This is one case in which the mandate to the MDDA and to Icasa is not clearly distinguishable.]

A media environment must be created in which to redress the disadvantages of the past. But diversity in ownership does not necessarily result in diversity in content. In this sense, unless the word ``diversity’’ is clearly defined it can be misused for party-political propaganda and ideology, especially in community radio.

The media is a primary source of news and information, and plays a significant role in influencing the political, social and cultural agendas of a country. The question is: How would the Media Development and Diversity the WDDA, Agency, the MDDA, promote diversity, because in the GCIS discussion document greater emphasis is placed on development and funding, than on diversity.

Thirdly, it is not clear what the objectives of the MDDA are. A comparison of the functions of the MDDA and the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, shows that there are duplications of the mandates between the two. How will clashes between Icasa and the MDDA over disagreements, for example, on the issuing of licences, be handled? To say the MDDA and Icasa will work closely together is not the answer. Icasa is the constitutionally mandated broadcast regulator. No other body may do that work.

Ons moet dus besin of ons twee instansies wil hê met dieselfde mandaat en of ons Icasa, die onafhanklike kommunikasie-owerheid, eerder na behore moet bemagtig om sy werk behoorlik te doen.

Die GCIS, die regeringskommunikasie en -inligtingsdiens, wil graag die boodskap van die Regering aan die mense bring. Dit het egter pas aan die lig gekom dat radiostasies soos YFM en Khaya, wat swart beheerde dienste is, sukkel om ‘n advertensie-inkomste van die Regering te kry.

Die GCIS bestee liewer dié bedrag aan die sogenoemde wit-beheerde media. Ons moet ons prioriteite regkry. Dit help nie om te raas oor omvorming, maar wanneer die daad by die woord gevoeg moet word, belê ons ons geld op ander plekke nie. Khaya en YFM bereik ‘n baie groot deel van die swart gemeenskap en die Regering behoort hulle ten minste in ag te neem.

‘n Groot klad op die GCIS se rekord vir vanjaar is die verslag van die Ouditeur-Generaal wat aandui dat hy bykans R4 miljoen ongemagtig bestee het. Daarby het die OG ook swak interne beheer by die GCIS geïdentifiseer, onder meer ten opsigte van bateregisters en oordragte. Ten spyte hiervan het die Regering sy begroting feitlik verdubbel tot R120 miljoen, terwyl Icasa sukkel om meer geld te kry en sy personeel met voertuie moet ry wat meer as 300 000 - 400 000 kilometer afgelê het.

Ons hoop die saak sal in die volgende begroting reggestel word. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We must therefore consider whether we want two institutions with the same mandate or whether we should rather empower Icasa, the independent communications authority, to do its job properly.

The GCIS, the Government Communication and Information System, wants to convey the message of the Government to the people. However, it has recently come to light that radio stations like YFM and Khaya, which are black-controlled services, are struggling to obtain an income from advertising from the Government.

The GCIS prefers to spend this amount on the so-called white-controlled media. We must get our priorities right. It is no good to make a noise about transformation, but when actions must suit the words we invest our money elsewhere. Khaya and YFM reach a very large sector of the black community and the Government should at least take them into account.

A big blot on the GCIS’s record for this year is the report of the Auditor- General which indicates unauthorised expenditure of approximately R4 million. In addition the Auditor-General also identified poor internal control at the GCIS, inter alia, with regard to asset registers and transfers. Despite this, the Government has virtually doubled its budget to R120 million, while Icasa is struggling to get more money and its staff are forced to use vehicles which have covered more than 300 000 to 400 000 kilometres.

We hope that this matter will be rectified in the next budget. [Time expired.]]

Dr S C CWELE: Somlomo, ngisukuma ohlangothini lwe-ANC ukuze ngixhase iVoti leSabiwomali soMnyango weziNhlelo zikaHulumeni zoKwazisa umphakathi. [Madam Speaker, I come from the ANC’s side to support the Vote of the Department of Communications.]

We support their budget because they have made advances despite some difficulties in our national communications environment. While many South Africans were upbeat about our country and our Government, a small but very powerful minority was thriving on negativity. This negativity in our press is based on false prejudices: the legacy of our past. It is based on an incorrect mindset, not on facts. Sometimes it borders on racism.

What can we do as South Africans to deal with this problem? Surely, we cannot sit down and fold our arms while these negative elements undermine our common nationhood, our newly found democracy and our Constitution. We cannot be silent when, without any facts, the very institutions of this democracy, including the highest office, the Presidency, enjoy absolutely no respect from these elements. We cannot be silent when, without any facts, our country is constantly being portrayed to the outside world as corrupt and the crime capital of the world.

Surely it could never be acceptable in any democracy, on the morning of the state-of-the-nation address, that the public was being discouraged from even listening to the address and the President was presented as a discredited person by some national broadcasters. The rights and the sweet fruit of the hard-earned freedom we enjoy impose responsibilities on all of us. It is the responsibility of every South African to uphold national values and respect a democratic government and its institutions. For us to take pride in being South African, we must first and foremost accept ourselves as Africans.

We in the ANC are the first to welcome criticism and open debate on critical questions facing our nation. We benefit nothing from negativism and sensationalism. We hope to find less and less journalists who are deployed from our media houses with the following brief: Go and listen, interview and look for something controversial. The media, and the parties that lost the elections, are also welcome to bring critical issues of development facing the nation to the centre court for public debate.

It is not the responsibility of the GCIS alone to ensure that we have empowered citizens. All of us must ensure that we have correctly informed citizens who can participate in their own development. It is informed citizens who will ensure that our limited resources are protected, and who will rout out corruption in both the public and the private sectors.

The ANC welcomes the efforts of the GCIS and the leadership of our media houses to reduce or eliminate these negative perceptions. Some of these efforts include interaction with the media houses, the meeting between the President and the editors’ forum, and the proposal of the media houses to have specialist journalists who are frequently informed and briefed about the work and programmes of Government. These specialist journalists would play a critical role in holding the Government accountable to their pronounced programmes and schedules.

As the President said in his state of the nation address this year, and I quote:

… gradually, step by step, our country proceeds further away from its painful past. We, its citizens, who are very close to the coalface of change, may not easily see the steady transformation that informs all aspects of our national life.

We should not be distracted in our efforts to build unity in action for change by this small minority who are fundamentally opposed to transformation or bent on an anti-Mbeki, anti-Government or even anti-ANC crusade.

The ANC welcomes the findings and recommendations of the Human Rights Commission on racism in the media. We encourage those in the media who see the opportunity of moving forward by taking heed of these findings. We welcome the proposed workshop between the HRC, Sanef and the GCIS on transformation of the media. When we talk about transformation, we are not just talking about putting a few blacks in positions, but we are talking about substantive measures, including a paradigm shift, in the mindset of the media houses. This should include retraining of our journalists.

One is tempted to ask why black editors are being removed from some of our newspaper houses. Why was Mr Nyatsumba removed from The Daily News? Was it because the readership did not like a black editor, and hence the profit motive drove him out to England? Why was Mr Ryland Fisher muscled out of the Cape Times and John Scott marshalled in, despite increasing readership during his time as the editor? Was it because Mr Fisher was attracting many new coloured readers at the expense of losing a few conservative white readers? Is it simply a problem of a racist attitude in the media or the effect of the profit motive, directed by an untransformed advertising industry in South Africa which perceives the South African market as white only? Are newspaper adverts the only platform for the black majority to adequately express their views? Is money the only gate available to them, while other races are given a free platform?

I hope that hon members will agree that we need to answer all these questions. In order to be fair to all stakeholders, we need to have an inquiry into the functioning of the advertising industry in South Africa. This may be one of the roles of the MDDA.

It is clear from the above that the Government and the GCIS may use these traditional platforms to communicate with the public. However, they are inadequate. In addition, we need to explore dedicated nonmediated forms, or direct forms of communication, in order to reach the majority of our citizens, particularly the poor.

We have done well in strengthening our communication machinery at national and provincial level, now it is time to move to the most critical level, local government. This is crucial if we aim to mobilise the masses to participate in changing their lives for the better, particularly in the nodal areas, for the implementation of the integrated rural development strategy.

In conclusion, we must move away from negativism, sensationalism and the prejudices of the past. We must, collectively, create a sense of common nationhood. We must yield to the call of the President to all our people across the colour line to dedicate this year to building unity in action for change. The ANC supports this Vote. [Applause.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Madam Speaker, let me first of all thank all hon members who participated in the debate this morning and I thank in particular all of those members who praised the efforts of the management and staff of the GCIS. I think they highly appreciate it.

I would like to start where hon Smuts began. It is always pleasing to note that hon Smuts - and I hope others of the apartheid era do the same - now actually reads and studies Umrhabulo. I am very glad to hear that. However, it might help if the hon member did not read it with a jaundiced eye.

Now, I know many sayings, and one of my favourite sayings is an old Afrikaans saying. Now that the hon member is reading Umrhabulo, let me say this: ``Die agteros kom ook in die kraal.’’ [Slow but steady wins the race.] [Interjections.]

Secondly, to argue that anybody who believes the ANC ideologues is a sucker is, fundamentally, following the wrong approach, because then nearly two thirds of the voters of this country are suckers. Now if the hon member wants to win their votes in the next election, she had better find another word to call them. [Interjections.] Because they are not, you see …

Mr M J ELLIS: They are educated by them.

The MINISTER: Yes, that is Ellis’s problem. Regarding this problem about ``we will educate’’, for too long the whites have been trying to educate us. For too long. In the process, they gave us Bantu education, they gave us Coloured education, they gave us Indian education. Now, I suppose, we had better bring in some White education, so that Mr Ellis might just improve his own understanding of his own country. [Interjections.] He might. Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]

The MINISTER: There is always hope. Then we are told that Parliament is being neutralised. Why is Parliament being neutralised?

An HON MEMBER: The ethics committee. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER: No, let me finish. Hear me out. Some of the hon members and their predecessors sat in this Parliament when this Parliament had no credibility, either in this country or in the world, and instead of neutralising this Parliament, they were giving this racist Parliament an unnecessary status. I think it is unbecoming of hon members to come and say here now that a democratically elected Parliament is being neutralised. It is not being neutralised. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Neutralised by you and by others.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: It is not Mandela’s view either.

The MINISTER: Look, let me teach you something about Mr Mandela. [Interjections.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: He praised Helen’s presence in this Chamber. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER: Yes, and when Helen Suzman herself one day spoke a lot about the Chamber of Mines, a Cabinet Minister called Mr M C Botha stood up and said: ``Well, you, you are talking a lot. But the people who back you are Anglo American.’’ [Interjections.] So do not talk too much about the mining industry.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: What is the point, or the relevance, to this House? [Interjections.]

The MINISTER: Now, Mr Mandela is, was and remains, a loyal and disciplined member of the ANC of South Africa. It is the ANC that enabled Mandela to become what he became, not that hon member. [Applause.]

May I take this opportunity to thank Ms Sue Vos. I know she is not well today and, in spite of not being well, she did come to participate in this debate. I thank her very much for coming and for participating in the debate today.

Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.] [Laughter.]

An HON MEMBER: Mike, bly stil, man! [Mike, keep quiet, man!]

The MINISTER: Mr Ellis’s problem lies in his being so unsophisticated that any attempt at sophistication passes him by. Now, it might just help him to go to some courtesy college and learn some good manners. [Interjections.]

I would like now to mention what Mrs Newhoudt-Druchen said to us today. We accept her criticism that we need to do a great deal more to employ people with disabilities in senior management positions at the GCIS. We certainly have heard her message that we need to do a great deal more to ensure that information becomes more accessible to people with disabilities. I want to assure her that the GCIS will certainly take her message to heart.

In conclusion, let me try to comment on what Mr Dowry from the New NP said. If he actually reads the document properly, he will find that central to the document, regarding the setting up of the MDDA, is that it should be at arm’s length from the Government. We have written that in the document.

Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]

The MINISTER: Because the MDDA has not yet been set up. But that member is so foolish, he will never understand anything.

Secondly, in all of the discussions we have had with the major stakeholders, we have addressed this issue with them, because we do not expect that the major stakeholders, if they are to put any money into it, would put money into something which would not be able to make an independent contribution in order to meet their diversity and development needs.

The objectives of the MDDA are very clear. There is no attempt, and no attempt will be made, to get the MDDA to carry out the functions of Icasa. Icasa, as the hon member said, has to license the electronic media. The MDDA’s responsibility is to see how we can broaden the media diversity and the development of media diversity, and they will continue to carry out their functions quite separately. The hon member does not have anything to fear.

What may be a good thing is that, in terms of what actually happens in this new entity - I do not know if it really exists - called the Democratic Alliance, my advice to the hon member and to the Mayor of the City of Cape Town is to be careful of those people who go and hold their own private caucuses, because they have already decided who they want to be the Mayor of Cape Town. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Madam Speaker, hon members, I can see the word ``weekend’’ written on the faces of some members. So I will not detain hon members longer than is necessary.

I welcome this opportunity to introduce to the House the Correctional Services Amendment Bill of 2001. The Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998, which is also referred to as the principal Act, marked the beginning of the transformation process towards prison reform in South Africa. It was assented to by the hon President on 27 November 1998.

The drafting of the new Act in order to repeal the Correctional Services Act of 1959 was necessitated by the democratic revolution which has been taking place in our country in the past decade. In order to grasp the fundamentals that formed the basis for the drafting of the principal Act, it is important to understand the context which defines the history of the South African correctional system. The history of the South African prison system has been described as a history of a system that formed part of the state apparatus of a minority government which applied explicitly racial criteria. The prison system itself was governed by a highly restrictive legal regime which included explicit racist elements.

In creating a completely new legal framework, the principal Act had to be underpinned by the provisions of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Act of 1996. The principal Act also incorporated the requirements of the United Nations International Conventions on the Treatment of Offenders. It is often said that a nation is judged by the way it treats its own prisoners.

The primary objective of the principal Act was therefore to create a new legal framework in conformity with the principles which underpinned an open and democratic society. This is therefore only the beginning. The actual transformation process is currently under way, which will culminate in the development of a White Paper on Correctional Services. The White Paper process will assist the department to generate interest and understanding amongst shareholders of the challenges facing the correctional system in playing an effective role in crime prevention within the overall context of the criminal justice system in our country. It was therefore necessary to bring forward certain amendments to the principal Act to ensure that the transformation process remains on track and continues to deliver the desired outcomes.

In the process of drafting subordinate legislation and implementing certain aspects of the Act, it became apparent, and based on practical considerations, that certain amendments would be necessary in order to fully implement the principal Act and to be more compliant with the provisions of the Constitution. We will find that clause 9 of the Bill places a duty on the department to provide, as far as is practicable, measures to accommodate prisoners with disabilities and to create an environment that is gender-sensitive. I am sure that very few hon members know that there are disabled prisoners. Very few hon members know this.

Whereas clause 12 puts in place certain procedural and substantive safeguards in disciplinary proceedings of prisoners, such as the proper recording of proceedings at an informal hearing before the head of prison and the right to legal representation at a formal hearing before a disciplinary official, clauses 17, 18 and 19 provide for the circumstances under which force may be used by a correctional official, including the procedures to be followed for the use of firearms and other nonlethal incapacitating devices.

Of importance is that that matter will now be dealt with in the Act itself and not be relegated to the regulations as suggested by the initial text of the principal Act. This also contributes to the efficient checks and balances to prevent the abuse of physical power and to ensure the safety of prisoners. Clause 20 inculcates the right of child offenders to education and training and prohibits utilisation of child offenders for labour, other than for work aimed at developing their skills.

The lack of community involvement in the parole system has been a matter of great concern for many of us. In terms of the principal Act, the composition of the parole boards will now include two members of the community and two full-time ex officio members from the Department of Correctional Services, the Department of Justice and the SAPS. It will be chaired by a member of the community.

We, however, have been unable to implement the new parole boards so far owing to the unavailability of full-time ex officio members who represent the police and justice, because of funding problems. The two departments could not fund those members on a full-time basis. Thus, we had to amend that provision further. We had to amend the principal Act in terms of clauses 27 and 28 of the Bill to make provision for the co-option of ad hoc members from those two departments, ie Justice and Police Services. That was done on a need-to basis.

The new parole system also provides for representations to be made to the parole board, either by the victim in person or by a representative of the victim. The inclusion of clause 30 is intended to assist the department and Government in managing the scourge of overcrowding in our prisons. Part of these provisions which deal with unsentenced prisoners were not included in the principal Act.

In terms of the resolution passed by the Cabinet legotla that was held on 22 and 23 January 2001, departments must intensify their fight against manifestations of corruption in the Public Service. In this regard, departments must therefore employ all their resources or resources at their disposal to spearhead the fight against corruption.

In terms of the principal Act, the office of the inspecting judge is required to report any corrupt or dishonest practices in prison. It is my contention that that provision is consistent with the above-mentioned resolution. I am further advised that this provision does not in any way contradict the decision of the Heath case. Therefore the attempt to remove the legal duty to report corrupt or dishonest practices in prisons, in terms of clause 29 of the Bill, will indeed harm the department’s efforts in its fight against corruption in prisons.

It is important to draw a distinction between the requirement to report and the actual investigation of corruption. The inspecting judge is only required to report corrupt and dishonest practices and not to investigate them. In fact, the inspecting judge has himself indicated that he is quite comfortable with his role, as it currently stands, with regard to this matter. I am therefore not comfortable with the removal of that duty to report corrupt and dishonest practices in prisons in terms of clause 29 of the Bill.

In conclusion, I must also mention the fact that I am currently considering further amendments in line with the recommendations of the management audit investigation report dated February 2000 by the Department of Public Service and Administration to remove any ambiguity which may have been created by the principal Act regarding powers of the executing authority as provided for in terms of the Public Service Act of 1994.

I therefore welcome and support this Bill as a positive step forward for the desired transformation of our correctional system. [Applause.]

Mr N B FIHLA: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers and hon members, the Correctional Services Amendment Bill emanated from proposed amendments to the Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998. More specifically, the amendments arose out of the call for a totally new structure of subordinate legislation and from the fact that the implementation of correctional supervision and of the parole boards presented difficulties.

The Correctional Services Amendment Bill has recognised the fact that the department has the duty to control prisoners efficiently, to improve the behaviour and personality of prisoners and to develop the administration of correctional affairs. To this end, the amending Bill serves to implement measures which recognise the complexity of the correctional facility and the environment.

A promising and notable amendment to the Bill is the streamlining of the functions of the Judicial Inspectorate, which now include the facilitating of inspections of prisons so as to report any corrupt and dishonest practices in prisons and the empowering of the inspecting judge to regulate the administrative affairs of his or her staff.

A significant change has been made regarding the composition of parole boards to allow them to co-opt officials of the SAPS and of justice who will then have voting rights. The task of determining a schedule of offences and terms of sentences is decided upon by the commissioners of the Department of Correctional Services, the SAPS, the Director-General of Justice and the National Director of Public Prosecutions.

The composition of the boards emphasises that natural justice for prisoners be met and, in a specific cases, that the boards advise justice officials and the SAPS two months in advance of a board sitting with the purpose of obtaining recommendations on the granting of parole and correctional supervision.

In instances of conditional release, it is paramount that consideration is given to the protection of society. These decisions are based on available information and careful assessment of risk. This awesome responsibility rests with the board and, with the amendment to the composition of the present board structure, it is hoped that this will continue to refine the framework for enhancing the effectiveness and accountability of correctional programmes.

Central to the effective management of Correctional Services is the mandate given to the Minister of Correctional Services. The inclusion of the amendment, which authorises the Minister not only to establish prisons, but also to revise the establishment of prisons, is an important and necessary inclusion. It serves to empower the Minister to intervene not only in prison management, but also in times of prison crisis.

Various clauses have been inserted into the amending Bill, amongst which are clauses referring to disability and gender sensitivity so as not to discriminate. Notable amendments have been made to the circumstances under which mechanical restraint devices may be used; the conditions under which force or nonlethal incapacitating devices may be used; the provisions on the labour of sentenced children; and the provision of single-cell accommodation under normal circumstances.

However, the crucial issue of HIV testing in prisons has presented the committee with many questions and no satisfactory solutions. The issue of overcrowded prisons is a veritable time bomb. Subsequent to briefings by the state law advisers and the Judicial Inspectorate, it was stated categorically by all that, according to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, any attempt at compulsory testing of prisoners for HIV would be in violation of the South African Constitution.

The HIV/Aids pandemic is cause for concern, not only for Correctional Services, but for the nation as a whole. With the ever-increasing numbers of prisoners incarcerated in our prisons, this issue requires further vigorous debate. [Applause.]

Mev P W CUPIDO: Mev die Speaker, die DA verwelkom die wyse waarop die portefeuljekomitee en die departement die nodige wysigings gehanteer het. Ons verwelkom veral die wysiging in klousule 6(b) wat bepaal dat gevaarlike verhoorafwagtende gevangenes apart aangehou mag word. Klousule 21(a) in die wetsontwerp bepaal ook baie duidelik dat kinders in gevangenisse slegs mag werk indien dit as opleiding of vaardigheidsontwikkeling gesien kan word.

Ons grootste kommer is egter dat die Regering se wetgewing en ander glansdokumente van die ministeries en departemente altyd baie indrukwekkend voorkom, terwyl die uitdaging vir die Regering is om dit wat op skrif gestel is suksesvol uit te voer. Die DA doen ‘n ernstige beroep op die Minister van Korrektiewe Dienste om die wetsontwerp wat vandag gedebatteer word, op grondvlak uit te voer. Die DP steun hierdie wetgewing. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mrs P W CUPIDO: Madam Speaker, the DA welcomes the way in which the portfolio committee and the department dealt with the new amendments. We especially welcome the amendment contained in clause 6(b), which provides that dangerous awaiting-trial prisoners might be detained apart. Clause 21(a) of the Bill also provides very clearly that children in prisons may only do work if it can be viewed as training or skills development. Our greatest concern, however, is that the Government’s legislation and other glossy documents of the ministries and departments always look very impressive, while the challenge for the Government is successfully to implement what was put on paper. The DA makes a serious appeal to the Minister of Correctional Services to implement the Bill that is being debated today at grass-roots level. The DP supports this legislation. [Applause.]]

Prof L G B NDABANDABA: Madam Speaker, hon Chairperson of the portfolio committee, hon Minister and hon members, in discussing the amending Bill, we need to emphasise that society’s reaction to crime falls into three major phases: firstly, the phase in which punishment was meted out without any regard to the offender; secondly, the phase in which the offender came into prominence and imprisonment became the general rule; and thirdly, the modern phase, known as the phase of treatment of the offender, which is being addressed by the present amending Bill. Each of these phases was the product of complex social, economic and historical factors.

The present Bill confirms the foregoing by stating that there should be supportive structures for the effective treatment of prisoners, effecting improvements on the structures of correctional services supervision and parole boards. The structure of these institutions has not always been financially viable.

The Bill also addresses the eradication of corruption by proposing the placement of a unit that will deal with this in the department and not the judicial inspectorate. Whilst we fully support the unit to assist in the eradication of corruption the concern is that it is taken away completely from the judicial inspectorate. However, it is encouraging to note that the National Council of Correctional Services has been given a brief by the Minister to study the independence of the anticorruption unit in the department and to report to the Minister.

Another concern is clause 34(b), the implications of which are that the commissioner will take charge of investigating theft, fraud, etc. We have been encouraged by the fact that the Minister’s department is currently co- operating with the Department of Public Service and Administration in developing regulations which will revisit the powers of the Commissioner of Correctional Services so that these powers will be in line with the Public Service. In conclusion, we wish to assure the Minister that the good work that he is doing in Correctional Services does not pass unnoticed. This forward- looking Bill will give the Minister a further boost by amplifying and redefining his powers to make regulations, and to further encourage co- operation between his department and other departments involved in the administration of justice.

Finally, the Bill addresses measures which will make the disabled lead a better life in prisons. We thank the Minister and congratulate him on this piece of legislation, which is user-friendly in the treatment of inmates. The IFP supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Mr H A SMIT: Madam Speaker, as this is the first debate after the appointment of Mr Fihla, generally known to us as Oom Ben, to the position of chairperson of the committee, I think it is only appropriate that I also congratulate him on his appointment. I do hope that we will have a long and fruitful working relationship with Oom Ben.

On a lighter note, members will know that this committee has a record of shelving chairpersons on a continuous basis. However, I do hope that this will not happen to Oom Ben. [Interjections.] Also, as the hon Minister knows, we were without a chairperson for about five months, I think, and I still regard this as unacceptable. I think the ANC had their own reasons for not filling that post. I believe that at one stage even the hon Mr Jannie Momberg aspired to become the chair of that committee. [Interjections.]

We have discussed this amending Bill thoroughly, and I am not going to waste the Minister’s time by going into all the amendments. Personally, I would have liked to have certain additional amendments inserted. However, I am not going to waste this honourable Chamber’s time with my own personal ideas, because I will raise certain of my own ideas within the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services in due course.

However, there is one aspect that I am very concerned about, and that is the recent statement made by the Minister regarding the question of HIV/Aids. And I am just going to mention a few figures. According to an answer given by the hon the Minister in this Chamber, over the past 13 months, a total of 457 prisoners have died of HIV/Aids in our prisons. According to the report of Judge Fagan, the Inspecting Judge for Correctional Services, presented to our committee some time ago, it is estimated, if I am not wrong, that in five years’ time, a total of 7 000 prisoners will die in our prisons annually. Even more alarming is that in 10 years’ time, according to the report, a total of 45 000 prisoners will die annually in our prisons of HIV/Aids. Of course, this also has major consequences regarding the personnel of the department. As I see it, this crisis will have to be tackled more effectively. In this regard I will come back to our chair in due course.

We in the committee submitted a request to the effect that the Departments of Health and Justice must look into this matter and report to us. We did receive a report from the Department of Justice. But even more so, I personally feel that prisoners who are HIV-negative also have rights. I will come back to the hon Minister on that.

I am still not satisfied with the fact that I could not get sound proof that the Human Rights Commission had been consulted on these amendments. I requested, as the hon Minister will recall, proof of their comments from the parliamentary secretary to this committee, but up to now I have not received anything from our secretary. This is absolutely unacceptable to me. I personally believe that our chairperson - I know he will do it - will have to jack-up that secretary.

Regarding clause 29, which my colleague from the IFP has also referred to, and clause 32, I am still of the opinion that many powers have to be vested in the commissioner, and that he will have to be monitored. However, having said that, we will support the adoption of the Correctional Services Amendment Bill. I think these are good amendments, and I also want to congratulate the Minister and his team.

Dr S E MZIMELA: Madam Speaker, when in 1998 we replaced the 1959 Correctional Services Act, the intention was not to replace a bad Act with a perfect one. There will never be a perfect Act, and we knew in 1998 that further work would have to be done to constantly improve what we have.

We need, therefore, to congratulate the department and the Ministry for having been vigilant over these past three years and for having discovered the discrepancies in the 1998 Act, and for bringing forward the necessary remedies in order to strengthen the department and to make the whole correctional services atmosphere much better than it was in the past.

We in the UDM therefore not only accept all the amendments, but also encourage the department and the Ministry to look further and effect further amendments to an Act which is basically a sound Act. However, anything that is done by humans can never be perfect, therefore they should continue to effect the necessary amendments and make this Act as good as it possibly can be.

Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, the members of the ACDP believe in the principle that whatever privileges and amenities cannot be provided by Government to law-abiding citizens should not be provided free of charge to those who have broken the law. Therefore the emphasis is not on the amenities, but on the principle of their being free of charge. Amenities are not free, and if the prisoner does not pay, it will surely be the taxpayer who does. Therefore there has to be some quid pro quo.

Section 6(5) of the Act, as amended by this Bill, provides that every prisoner must bath or shower as soon as possible after admission. We support that! However, we are saying that Government must ensure that the many law-abiding citizens who do not have access to baths and showers should be prioritised.

The ACDP supports the amending Bill, but we also want to caution Government with regard to section 6(5), as amended, which places a very strong onus on the prison authorities to ensure that prisoners who are infected by HIV/Aids do no infect those who are not infected. [Interjections.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, man is created in the image of God, and whatever treatment is meted out to human beings has to keep this dictum in mind. Human beings have to be loved, respected and served with the greatest love, without counting their misdeeds towards others.

The UCDP accepts that the department should accept the responsibility for the eradication of corruption. This is not a matter to be left to another body, such as the inspecting judge, whose primary responsibility is to report on the treatment of prisoners and conditions in prisons.

We welcome the provision made to detain dangerous prisoners who are awaiting trial or sentence apart from other prisoners. The amendments to the Act are a revamp of the entire Act and deserve support. No effort should be spared in doing our utmost to rehabilitate prison inmates, so that when they are eventually released, they should be citizens of good moral, psychological, social and economic standing. They should be able to take their rightful place in life. The UCDP supports the Bill.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the MF supports the Correctional Services Amendment Bill, and appreciates that the Bill will address a number of key concerns, which include overcrowding in prisons, community representation on boards and various other matters. However, the MF is deeply concerned about the reduction in the size of the correctional supervision and parole boards for financial reasons and would like to appeal to the department to look at the effect this will have on the activities of the boards.

Whilst appreciating the fact that the number of community representatives will remain two or three, the MF still feels that there should be equal representation. We also accept that the chairperson of the board will be a community member, and we appeal to the board that before prisoners are released on parole, they should have gone through proper rehabilitation, so that they can be successfully reintegrated into the community and be no further hindrance to society, and also help to combat crime and to bring peace and stability to our country.

In addition, the MF suggests that measures should be taken to combat theft, fraud, corruption and any other dishonest practices or illegalities, and to investigate instances where these occur.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to conclude by thanking the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services and the hon Mr Fihla, who is the new chairperson, for deliberating on this Bill and finding it appropriate to support it.

I also want to thank individual members who made their contributions with regard to these amendments, even those who expressed their concerns. I think it is a national duty to do that - we not only support, but also express concerns because there will always be concerns. Dr Mzimela said that nothing was perfect, that we have to keep on developing and changing whatever we create as human beings. The question of HIV/Aids in prisons has become one of the major concerns in the portfolio committee and also among members of the general public. But I think we should also realise that we as a Parliament need to observe the objectives of the constitutional state, which is equality, the freedoms and the basic rights of all individuals, including privacy and bodily integrity.

Prisoners are also citizens of this country. They also enjoy those rights, except for the fact that they have been removed from society. If one wants to deal with this question of HIV/Aids and establish or have mandatory testing for Aids in prisons, then one would have to work for a legislative intervention. This means that one would have to revisit section 36 of the Constitution until one has proved that the fact that the prisoners suffering from Aids is an impediment to other members of society or other inmates. But one should remember that they also need to have that right to privacy to be able to say: ``No, do not test me compulsorily or mandatorily’’.

I am not pleading for or against this, but I am saying that this is the kind of process that one would have to embark upon. One would also have to state the purpose of putting in place a legislative intervention in order to have mandatory testing in prisons when, in fact, globally other countries are moving away from that. What would be the purpose? It would have to be a higher purpose, not simply because one is dealing with prisoners and one feels that they suffer from these diseases or that whoever comes into prison needs to be subjected to that simply because they are prisoners.

After one has done that, what is one going to do? Would one have all the resources or medication? Is one going to separate or segregate them? What would be the implication socially? Would one be able to cope with the suicides that would ensue, or even the homicides, where they would kill one another because of that? Those are the implications.

Yes, we will try to implement the Bill on the grounds that Mrs Cupido requested. I think that is the intention of these amendments. I heard what Prof Ndabandaba said regarding his concerns. As I said, concerns are also accepted and I also take his encouragement to heart.

Regarding Mr Smit’s comments, I have already responded to the question of HIV/Aids. This is not going to be a simple process, but a complex one. But if the general public feels that they want to do this to prisoners, well … However, we also have to remember that prisoners are also our constituents, and hon members write to me about them. Therefore we must also treat them as we would other members of our constituencies. Some of them are members of our families or our friends. Hon members write to me about them or write to the President about their suffering and the President writes to me about it.

Therefore, when we are here we should not behave as if we do not know them. They come from amongst us. They do not come from Mars or the moon, but from amongst us. I think that is why Cabinet or Government has decided to make rehabilitation a priority, because now we all know that when they go into prison, they will eventually come back. Now we are saying that when they come back they should be useful citizens and not criminals anymore. [Interjections.]

I accept Dr Mzimela’s encouragement. His are worthwhile comments, because they come from a person who has been working in this field. Where is he? [Interjections.] I would like to remind the UCDP that some people read in the papers that prisoners brought in revenue of R103 million in the past year through metal work, woodwork, etc. Those hon members who have been inside the NCOP Chamber and looked above the presiding officer’s head have seen the coat of arms which was created or made by prisoners in Boksburg. And most of the Ministers’s offices do have that coat of arms. I think we need to have one in this Chamber as well.

As I have said, rehabilitation and overcrowding have become priorities to Cabinet. I would like to say to Miss Rajbally that those are the things that we will try to concentrate on in the next two or three or four years. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 11:24. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly: The Speaker:

1. The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint Committees, viz:

 Constitutional Review:


 Appointed: Bakker, D M (Alt); Beukman, F; Camerer, S M; Gaum, A H; Van
 Deventer, F J (Alt).


 Ethics and Members' Interests:


 Appointed: Blaas, A; Matthee, P A; Pretorius, I J (Alt).


 Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and
 Disabled Persons:


 Appointed: Dhlamini, B W (Alt); Morkel, C M.


 Improvement on Quality of Life and Status of Women:


 Appointed: Camerer, S M; Nel, P J C (Alt).


 Intelligence:


 Appointed: Matthee, P A; Olckers, M E.


 Joint Programme:


 Appointed: Ackermann, C; Dowry, J J; Greyling, C H F.


 Joint Rules:


 Appointed: Ackermann, C; Bakker, D M; Gaum, A H; Greyling, C H F.

1. The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint Subcommittees, viz:

 Parliamentary Symbols:


 Appointed: Dowry, J J (Alt); Van Wyk, A.

1. The following changes have been made to the membership of Standing Committees, viz:

 Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions:


 Appointed: Niemann, J J; Odendaal, W A (Alt).


 Public Accounts:


 Appointed: Beukman, F; Blaas, A (Alt).

1. The following changes have been made to the membership of Portfolio Committees , viz:

 Agriculture and Land Affairs:


 Appointed: Le Roux, J W (Alt); Van der Merwe, A S.


 Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:


 Appointed: Rhoda, R T (Alt); Van Wyk, A.


 Communications:


 Appointed: Dowry, J J; Van Wyk, A (Alt).
 Correctional Services:
 Appointed: Durand, J (Alt); Smit, H A.


 Education:


 Appointed: Gaum, A H (Alt); Geldenhuys, B L.


 Environmental Affairs and Tourism:


 Appointed: Le Roux, J W; Olckers, M E (Alt).


 Finance:


 Appointed: Blaas, A (Alt); Rabie, P J.


 Foreign Affairs:


 Appointed: Geldenhuys, B L; Schoeman, R S (Alt).


 Health:


 Appointed: Baloyi, O (Alt); Gous, S J; Rhoda, R T (Alt).
 Discharged: Sibiya, M S M.


 Home Affairs:


 Appointed: Beukman, F; Pretorius, I J (Alt).


 Housing:


 Appointed: Durand, J; Rhoda, R T (Alt).


 Justice and Constitutional Development:


 Appointed: Bakker, D M (Alt); Camerer, S M.


 Labour:


 Appointed: Bakker, D M (Alt); Blaas, A.


 Minerals and Energy:


 Appointed: Nel, A H; Odendaal, W A (Alt).


 Public Enterprises:


 Appointed: Rabie, P J (Alt); Van Jaarsveld, A Z A.


 Public Service and Administration:


 Appointed: Van der Merwe, A S (Alt); Van Jaarsveld, A Z A.


 Public Works:


 Appointed: Schippers, J; Van der Merwe, A S (Alt).


 Social Development:


 Appointed: Baloyi, O; Olckers, M E (Alt); Van Jaarsveld, A Z A.
 Discharged: Middleton, N S.


 Sport and Recreation:


 Appointed: Morkel, C M.


 Water Affairs and Forestry:


 Appointed: Simmons, S; Van der Merwe, A S (Alt).

TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chaiperson:

 Reports of the Auditor-General on the -


 (a)    Financial Statements of the National Agricultural Marketing
     Council for 1998-99 [RP 36-2001];


 (b)    Annual Financial Statements of the Land Bank of South Africa for
     1999 [RP 24-2001].

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 Report of the Department of Home Affairs for 2000 [RP 39-2001].

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Water Research Commission for
 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 1999. COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Committee on Taxation Laws Amendment Bill on the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 11 May 2001:

   The Joint Committee on Taxation Laws Amendment Bill, having considered the subject of the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a Money Bill, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.