TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M T GONIWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the unwarranted attacks on the Speaker of the National Assembly by leaders of certain opposition political parties;

(2) believes that such attacks undermine the integrity of the institution and threaten the ability of this House to serve the people who elected its members;

(3) notes the exalted international reputation of Speaker Ginwala and the regard in which she is held by the people of South Africa;

(4) recognises that Speaker Ginwala has been exemplary in the manner in which she has ensured that all parties and all the people of South Africa have a voice in the National Assembly; and

(5) reaffirms its confidence in Speaker Ginwala and looks forward to her presiding over this House for many years to come.

[Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) expresses its disgust at the extravagance of the ANC’s Ekurhuleni Mayor, labelled,``Mr Big Spender’’ by the media, who has put his own self-importance ahead of the needs of those living in poverty;

(2) notes that in his first six months in office he has squandered millions of rands, including -

   (a)  R500 000 on an inauguration party;
   (b)  R560 000 on an armour-plated Mercedes Benz;
   (c)  over R3 million per year on salaries for his personal staff;
   (d)  R60 million for yet another Council chamber; and
   (e)  over R400 000 to redecorate his current office and

(3) calls on the ANC to at least choose candidates who have the best interests of the voters at heart when they dictatorially impose mayors on our communities. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes with disgust that three police officers have been arrested for being part of a ring that rapes and commits other sexual offences on girls as young as twelve;

(2) further notes with contempt that at least 15 members of the Pretoria Flying Squad are being investigated for this barbaric and inhumane crime, whereas they are the people who are supposed to protect the public, especially the helpless, innocent children;

(3) is also shocked to learn that the so-raped and sexually-abused children had escaped from their abusive parents to the safe houses where they also faced their limbo through police officers; and

(4) calls on both the Ministers of Safety and Security and of Social Development to attend to the plight of these children by specifically deploying social workers, police investigators and innocent parents to look closer into this matter.

Mr L V NGCULU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that a veteran of the people’s army uMkhonto weSizwe, comrade Graham ``Ntate Mashigo’’ Morodi, has passed away;

(2) believes that Comrade Ntate Mashigo has played a significant role in the liberation of our people, and will always be remembered by the masses of our people;

(3) expresses its heartfelt condolences to his family and relatives; and

(4) reiterates the ANC’s commitment to pick up his spear and continue to champion and advance the transformation agenda.

[Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  with concern the increase in the use of drugs amongst learners;
       and


   (b)  with dismay that learners are being used by syndicates to sell
       drugs at schools; and

(2) supports random drug-testing at schools on a voluntary basis, well believing that rehabilitation instead of punitive measures will prevent first-time users from becoming full-fledged addicts.

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) expresses its shock and dismay at two farm attacks in the past 48 hours, one involving an elderly couple in the Free State, the other involving a family in KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) extends its sincerest regret and sympathies to the injured victims, as well as their families;

(3) acknowledges that the continuing spate of farm attacks across the country exacerbates the growing hostility and fear in rural areas and among farmers and farm workers;

(4) confirms that farm and rural safety must be a priority and that we cannot allow a situation to develop where the ``remoteness’’ of rural areas equate to a reduction in the Government’s constitutional responsibility to protect the lives and property of rural citizens; and (5) notes that the UDM calls on the authorities to implement immediately strategies to curb these violent crimes.

[Applause.]

Ms M N BUTHELEZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that South Africa’s best entrepreneur, Mr Zitulele ``KK’’ Combi, won the acclaimed Ernest and Young Entrepreneur of the Year award for managing change;

(2) believes that our democratic dispensation has given opportunities for black entrepreneurs to display their skills and talent and reach for their goals; and

(3) congratulates Mr Zitulele Combi on his achievements.

[Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock the insensitivity of the Ekurhuleni Mayor who has chosen to be extravagant and earned himself the title of ``Mr Big Spender’’;

(2) dismisses attempts by his spokesman to justify using council money to buy him an armoured-plated R560 000 Mercedes-Benz by claiming that, because the Mayor has come down very hard on criminals, he might be targeted;

(3) rejects the Mayor’s plans to spend R3 million on salaries for his personal staff and R430 000 to improve his office in one of the poorest areas in Gauteng;

(4) notes with serious concern that hundreds of thousands of our people in the East Rand are so poor that they cannot afford a decent meal, while others cannot even afford a roof over their heads;

(5) concludes that such extravagant spending in such a poor area must be condemned and rejected by all those who believe in the rights of the poor; and

(6) calls on the Mayor of Ekurhuleni to stop spending millions on himself and his staff and to start spending millions on improving the lives of the poor around him by giving them excellent service.

[Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with horror how some schools such as Kanonkop High School in Middelburg, still cling to the outlawed and barbaric practice of initiation rituals;

(2) challenges such schools and other centres of learning to refrain from this type of practice in the new dispensation as such practices are harmful to learners, not only physically but also emotionally, for victims remain traumatised and their learning is adversely affected;

(3) supports the Minister of Education for having recommended that an independent investigation be mounted into the incident; and

(4) while appreciating the independence of the judiciary, calls on the prosecutor who declined to prosecute, to reflect on similar matters with the greatest circumspection and empathy in future.

Mr E M SIGWELA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Palestinians are calling for international intervention to stop the destruction of property and loss of life in the Middle East conflict;

(2) believes that the peaceful resolution of the problems in the Middle East is the only viable option which is in the interest of this and future generations; and

(3) calls on all parties and the Israeli security forces in particular to desist from using excessive force, and to work towards the peaceful resolution of the conflict.

Mr H C SCHMIDT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that the current investigationn into the R43 billion strategic arms-procurement deal, which is proving to be a major embarrassment to the Government, has not yet been finalised;

(2) expresses its concern at reported Government plans to purchase additional armaments; (3) condemns the announcement by the Chairman of the SA Aerospace, Maritime and Defence Industries Association, Mr Max Sisulu, that the Government intends purchasing an anti-aircraft gun or missile system; and

(4) calls on the Government to place a moratorium on all further arms purchases, pending the finalisation of the current investigation into the strategic arms-procurement, and to call for a re-examination of the Defence Review.

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the good rapport that exists between traditional healers and the
       vast majority of South Africans;


   (b)  recent claims by traditional healers that they have a cure for
       Aids; and
   (c)  the need for the Government to work with traditional healers in
       combatting the Aids pandemic; and

(2) calls on the Minister of Health to -

   (a)  appoint a team within her department to investigate the claims
       in conjunction with the Medicines Control Council; and


   (b)  establish formal channels of communication between traditional
       healers and local clinics and hospitals with regard to their HIV
       and Aids management programmes since it is of the utmost
       importance for all those involved in preventing and treating
       HIV/Aids to speak with one voice.

Ms N B GXOWA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the first groups of verified District Six tenancy claimants signed an agreement with the Department of Land Affairs;

(2) believes that this move is significant in returning land which was illegally taken away from its owners by the apartheid regime; and

(3) welcomes the signing of this agreement as this demonstrates the commitment of the ANC-led Government to undo the effects of apartheid and to work towards a better life for all our people.

[Applause.]

Mr H A SMIT: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel: [Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

Dat die Huis – [That the House -]

(1) is to discuss the scandalous squandering of hard-earned taxpayer’s money during the construction of the new prison in Kokstad;

(2) notes that this prison, built at a cost of R450 million, was completed some time ago, but is standing vacant while prisons in South Africa average a 170% occupancy rate;

(3) meen dit is laakbaar dat die Departement van Openbare Werke voortgegaan het met die bou van dié gevangenis terwyl die plaaslike munisipaliteit nie noodsaaklike dienste, soos die verskaffing van water en elektrisiteit en die hantering van rioolafval, kan voorsien nie, waarvan daar skriftelike bewys bestaan;

[(3) is of the opinion that it is reprehensible for the Department of Public Works to have proceeded with the construction of this prison when the local municipality cannot provide essential services, such as the provision of water and electricity and the handling of sewage waste, of which there is written proof;]

(4) concludes that it is evident how the ANC Government recklessly continues to squander the taxpayers’ money; and

(5) besef dat ‘n onafhanklike hoëvlak-ondersoek uiters noodsaaklik is. [realises that an independent high-level investigation is extremely essential.]

[Applause.]

Ms A VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  with alarm the results of a recent survey done by the Centre for
       Statistical Studies, which found that Cape Town could be the
       crime capital of South Africa; and


   (b)  that the moratorium on the crime statistics, which was imposed
       more than a year ago, has prevented the citizens of Cape Town,
       and others across the country, from being informed about which
       places, times and activities pose a danger to their lives;

(2) recognises this as a huge injustice committed by the Government, amounting to nothing other than turning a blind eye to the death and injury of innocent citizens who could have been warned to avoid crime hotspots; and

(3) calls on the Government to urgently deal with the escalating crime wave in South Africa that has laid siege to the ordinary law-abiding citizens of the country.

Mr N M DUMA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that 1 200 employers have not submitted employment equity plans a year after the deadline;

(2) believes that some employers are resisting the implementation of the law with spurious reference to principles of nondiscrimination with tacit encouragement from certain opposition parties;

(3) observes that these employers, silent during all those years of discrimination against black people and women, now paint themselves as fervent defenders of the rights of white men to equal opportunity in employment, citing the Constitution whenever anyone says,``affirmative action’’; and

(4) applauds the Department of Labour’s plans to crack down on those who resist developing employment equity plans, aimed at building a just South Africa with equal opportunities for all.

[Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House - (1) notes that the Government has ``read the riot act’’ to Mpumalanga over its financial mismanagement and warned of severe measures if it does not get its house in order;

(2) further notes that Mpumalanga has received a R300 million bail-out package in April to cover outstanding debts and the cost of the new government complex;

(3) calls on the Government to outline what these further steps may involve, as apart from cutting off additional financing for the province, the agreement does not specify such steps and as this action would simply further penalise the people of Mpumalanga and not those responsible; and

(4) further calls on the Government to explain what disciplinary measures will be taken against those responsible for the mismanagement.

The SPEAKER: Order! Before we proceed to the next item, I wish to recognise the honourable Jennifer Smith, premier of the island of Bermuda, who is in our gallery and is visiting South Africa to attend the African Travel Association Conference. [Applause.] Honourable premier, minister and senators, you are most welcome in the South African Parliament. We trust you will have a good visit to South Africa and encourage more visitors.

                       MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

         GEORGE BIZOS SC NAMED TRIAL LAWYER OF THE YEAR 2001
                                ____

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that veteran advocate and human rights activist George Bizos, SC, has been named trial lawyer of the year for 2001 by the International Academy of Trial Lawyers;

(2) further notes the outstanding contribution, over a period of more than four decades, that Adv Bizos has made, and continues to make, to the struggle for democracy and human rights in South Africa; and

(3) congratulates Adv Bizos on receiving this prestigious award and commends him on his contribution to promoting justice, democracy and human rights.

Agreed to.

                 CONGRATULATIONS TO THE SA AIR FORCE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that the SA Airforce, in addition to receiving the Prince Philip Award in the United Kingdom in 2000, has now received an award from the American Helicopter Society for its flood relief efforts in Mozambique;

(2) further notes that the SA Airforce, through its rescue and relocation operations, saved 15 000 Mozambicans and distributed more than 21 000 tons of medical supplies, blankets and clothing; and

(3) congratulates the crews of the SA Airforce on this latest award for their bold efforts that contributed to South Africa’s good image, not only in the region but in the rest of the world.

Agreed to.

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, the Minister of Finance has asked for an opportunity to make a statement on Census 2001. I now grant him that opportunity, but I would remind members that, as agreed at the programming committee, parties will have an opportunity to respond to the statement when the Vote on Statistics South Africa is debated.

                             CENSUS 2001

                             (Statement)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, hon members, the first nationwide population census in the new democratic South Africa took place in October

1. Democracy for all meant that the fragmentation of the country along racial lines and the differential and discriminatory treatment of people in the census according to their race were abandoned. Instead, people were given the opportunity to describe themselves and their families, their life circumstances and living conditions, by completing the census questionnaire. The results of the census fed into planning and allocation of funds, for example, for development projects, health and education, for even the smallest or most sparsely populated areas of the country. Census ‘96 formed the baseline. It told us what needed to be done.

Indeed, a census is used in all countries to provide each sector of government with confidential information, not only on the number of people living in a specific suburb or village, but also on their particular life circumstances and living conditions. Census ‘96 enabled us to deepen our democracy as it informed the planning for the national and local government elections that followed in 1999 and last year respectively. How have life circumstances changed since 1996? Has the country made progress in promoting a better life for all? A fresh census can tell us what has been achieved and what still has to be done to ensure delivery of services to all the people. The next census will take place this year on 10 October. I want to repeat that. Census 2001 will take place on 10 October, exactly five years since the last population census. Once again, this new census will give essential information on all our people, to enable the entire country to plan at each level of government and allocate budgets appropriately.

I would like to point out to hon members that because we did not have all the information available, Statistics SA provided only medium T-shirts here today. Hopefully, after Census 2001 they will know that members of Parliament need XXL or that kind of information. [Laughter.]

The choice of Wednesday 10 October as a census date is in keeping with a number of considerations. The first is our statutory obligation that promulgates the running of a population census of the Republic every five years. Secondly, mobility of the population should be minimal at the time of the census so the choice of a midweek day, that is a Wednesday, meets this requirement. Furthermore, 10 October is outside the school holidays, a period when most holiday-makers head for a variety of destinations for relaxation. There are also weather considerations and in this regard October is a warm month and days are longer. This will permit field workers sufficient daytime in which they can do their work and the weather conditions are much less hostile to the work that needs to be done.

Census 2001 is part of a worldwide celebration welcoming the new millennium. In the SADC region, seven of our member states will be taking part. These include Namibia, Botswana and South Africa this year, Zimbabwe and Tanzania next year, and Mauritius and Zambia, which have already gone ahead of us with their census last year. Joint planning sessions within member states culminated in an agreement to have a minimum set of SADC questions. Statistics SA was assigned by SADC to co-ordinate this successful initiative. Further afield in Africa has been the census in Ghana last year as well as across the oceans in the United States last year, the UK just a few weeks ago, Canada in May this year, and Australia and New Zealand in the last quarter of this year. So Census 2001 is a millennium celebration indeed.

Each publicly elected office bearer in the country has a responsibility to his or her constituency to ensure that delivery does take place. Every member of Cabinet and every Deputy Minister, every member of Parliament in both this House and the National Council of Provinces, members of provincial legislatures and the 10 000 elected local government representatives need to be actively part of promoting Census 2001 across party lines. What a fantastic resource we have in the elected members to make this endeavour a success for the benefit of the communities that have entrusted us with political responsibility.

As an elected member one is a direct beneficiary of the census. These results will help each of us in this House in making better informed decisions. Each of us should go out there and ensure that it is possible for enumerators to reach every household in the country, from the less accessible high-walled and security-guarded leafy suburbs of Sandton and Waterkloof to the poverty-stricken areas of Richmond and Tamboville. Members should ensure that the people in their constituencies keep their Rottweilers on leash; in fact, on that day we should all sing together ``please keep the dogs in’’ … [Interjections] … and allow census-takers to do their work. We count because the rich in this country count, but more importantly, we also count because the poor in this country count.

In especially the poverty-stricken areas we call upon members as elected members to ensure that there is full co-operation and the census succeeds without hindrance. In the potentially crime-infested areas like Alex, KwaMashu and Mannenberg, we need members as elected officers to pave the way for enumerators to do their work without fear. We count because crime in this country needs to be rooted out.

Along our borders, particularly in the Northern Province and Mpumalanga, the Department of Home Affairs reports that it is inundated with an influx of illegal immigrants. As elected members we must ensure that the people employed as farmworkers are enumerated, for as long as they are in South Africa irrespective of their residential status. We count because every worker in this country counts. Census ‘96 experienced a high undercount in the farming community. As elected members it is our responsibility to ensure that this feature of Census ‘96 exists in our minds only to the extent that it should be a lesson for Census 2001, a lesson never to be repeated. By getting every farmer to take it upon themselves to ensure that every person on the farm gets counted, we can make this a reality. Members should talk to the farmers in their constituencies.

Cassie, praat tog asseblief met die boere daar in Ellisras. [Please Cassie, talk to the farmers in Ellisras.]

Talk to your farmers in your constituency and ensure them of the importance and confidentiality of the census. We count because farmers in this country count.

It is a reality that there are people in this country who are involved in illegal activities or practices described as socially unacceptable. I can assure hon members that the information provided by this sector of the society is as important as that of anyone else and is accorded the same level of confidentiality in the census. We count because each of these people count.

As elected members representing people in varying constituencies, we must ensure that we count everybody irrespective of their works of life. As the campaign intensifies, we shall be providing material that will go a long way in making the census more visible, dissolving resistance and removing scepticism, fear and anxiety, and in its place bringing confidence, co- operation and collaboration. Hope is what qualifies and distinguishes us as elected members in our society.

Each of us in this House today can therefore play a catalytic role in ensuring that everyone is counted and that the life circumstances of each individual, each household and each community is accurately recorded. The census data can then tell each community where they have gained and where they lost in the past five years, and enable us policy-makers to directly address their needs. This is very important because each of us in this House also counts.

Census 2001 will provide a special framework for planning by providing the bases for review of demarcation where necessary, thereby entrenching democratisation and governance. We will know how the population has increased over time and how many people in each age category there are in the country. Has the age profile changed between 1996 and 2001? Have fatality rates in life expectancy at birth changed over time? What is the effect of illness such as HIV/Aids on the age profile of our country?

Census 2001 will help us to measure how the previously disadvantaged people participate meaningfully in the economic mainstream of our country. For example the previous census showed us that 58% of households in the country had access to electricity for lighting in 1996. How has it altered in the past five years? In 1996, 64% of households in the Northern Province were using wood as their main source of energy for cooking. Has this situation changed and if so, how? How, if at all, has the access to clean water changed in the 13% of households who were using river streams and dams as their main water source in 1996?

Therefore, a successful Census 2001 will inform planning, monitor progress and measure performance and the impact of our endeavours. All the people of our nation in their various walks of life are called upon to be counted. From the remote villages to the platteland towns, from the sprawling townships in densely populated informal settlements, to the high walled surburbs across the vast farm lands of our country we say: ``Stand up and be counted’’.

Everybody will be asked to co-operate fully with Statistics South Africa in this mammoth but vital task of counting people, whereby a battalion of a 100 000 will be combing every corner of the country, from the rolling hills of KwaZulu-Natal to the sandy deserts of the Northern Cape. They will count. This includes newly born children, the old, the youthful and mobile, migrant workers both from within and without South Africa. Census 2001 calls upon people to be counted.

We appeal to the various categories of our leadership, in industries and on farms, trade union leaders, student leaders, traditional leaders and church leaders to mobilise for South Africa to be counted.

Our publicity campaign starts here and now. It extends to the provinces with premiers launching the census in their respective provinces. Another innovation in our campaign is the census at school where we collaborate with the Department of Education. Our Census 2001 song has lyrics that reflects our unity and our diversity.

I would urge hon members to please assist us in this mammoth task and say ``Count us in, hihlayeni hinkweru, re bale kamoka, re bale kaofela, re bale rotlhe, ri vhaleni rothe, sibale sonke, tel ons by’’. [Applause.] APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 25 - Communications:

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, hon members, distinguished guests, colleagues, comrades and friends, I feel honoured once more to stand in front of you to present the Budget Vote of the Department of Communications, Vote 25 for the 2001 - 2002 financial year.

A few years ago this Government embarked on a road of transformation, laying new foundations for a vision or images which today are being turned into true stories about real people. The message we bring today is that the communications portfolio, which includes telecommunications, broadcasting and poastal services, has at last seen the building it started taking shape, but not necessarily in the manner it envisaged because of rapid technological changes in our sector.

Broadcasting and postal services have had to reinvent themselves as a result of the major changes in communications and information technologies. What is important, however, is that we have kept to the national vision set by the President in his last two speeches when he outlined national priorities and called for unity in action for change. This speech outlines how this portfolio faces the challenges posed and how future ones will be met. The imperatives posed by globalisation, the convergence of technologies and digitalisation all in a short space of time, as well as the pressing need for Africa’s renewal, have shaped our responses to the challenge.

As we embrace the new technologies, it is important to recognise the technological innovations of our past provided by the Khoi and the San people, whose superior communications and navigation skills depended on nature and their instincts. The experience of this indigenous people of our land shows that Africa is not new in the information and communications sector. We need to build from this strong historical heritage and play our role in technological systems development and innovations.

Our budget speech for this year is based on the theme ``Unity in action for Change’’. For us this means unity in action between departments, unity in action between the public and private sectors, unity in action between Government and civil society, unity in action between governments in Africa and unity in action between Africa and the world.

The budget is also based on a programme of action to bridge the global disparities through ICTs. Over the past year, in our programme for 2000 and 2001, we outlined a number of tasks to be implemented in our portfolio and we promised that the telecommunications sector would roll out additional telephone lines to extend infrastructure and services to schools, clinics and hospitals. We also promised to review the mandate of the universal service agency, to extend the WAP internet laboratories and to conclude the electronic commerce screen per paper process.

In the broadcasting sector we promised to roll out community radio stations, to extend the television footprint of the SABC, to establish digital and broadcast advisory bodies, to make feasibility studies for a parliamentary dedicated education channel, to restructure Channel Africa and to develop an African strategy for Santech.

In our postal services we promised to increase postal outlets, integrate electronic communications and transactions into the post office, roll out public information terminals, restructure the Post Bank, establish an international mail hub and to roll out addresses.

In the international sector of our work, we promise to set-up an African connection centre, to make a commitment to and participate in the implementation of the African Renaissance, and to make sure that we attend regular meetings with the ministers of the African continent of the ATU.

While during the year we made significant strides in policy development, universal access and restructuring, some of the programmes are of course ongoing. Parliament will be kept informed about the progress we are making.

I shall now deal with the Budget Vote for 2001-2. The telecommunications sector is important for attracting foreign and domestic direct investment and in contributing to economic growth and social development. I am happy to announce that the South African information and communication sector remains stable, irrespective of volatility in the world ICT markets.

As regards policy and legislation, developing a stable and predictable regulatory regime on electronic commerce is central to our vision of taking South Africa into the knowledge economy.

Since 1998 we have been working together with other Government departments, with industry, civil society and labour, on the development of an electronic commerce policy and law. In 1999 we published the Discussion Paper on e-commerce for public discussion. Emanating from the inputs we received, we developed a Green Paper, which was published for public comment in November 2000.

Subsequent to the launch of the Green Paper in April, we hosted an electronic law conference to develop national electronic communication and transaction legislation and to deliberate on issues which should go into the Bill. The conference was a success, as broader understanding was reached on key policy and legislative issues, amongst which were the need to prioritise universal access to electronic commerce; the need to bridge the digital and knowledge divide; the need to position Government as a role model user of electronic communications, including in the area of procurement and particularly in the area of integrated rural and sustainable development; the need to set up a national public key infrastructure that will ensure security, confidence, validity and reliability of online transactions; run on and the need to develop an institutional framework for the governance of electronic communications, including a country code top - level domain name registry in the form of a section 21 company, digital signature and cyber inspection.

We are in the process of finalising of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill which will be tabled in the House before the end of this year.

With regard to the review of telecommunications policy and legislation, in the last quarter of 2000 we started a process to review the telecommunications policy and legislature. This review was undertaken to reposition the South African telecommunications sector, to ensure that it contributes to the development of a new economy, rural telephone access, the development of small and medium enterprises and also the development of skills. To ensure effective stakeholder participation, we hosted a policy colloquium, which deliberated on a number of policy issues contained in the telecommunications White Paper. Informed by the outcome of this colloquium, Cabinet took decisions which formed the basis of draft policy directions, which were gazetted for public comment. The policy focuses on bridging the digital divide, lowering input costs, increasing universal service and access, human resource development, black economic empowerment, and a stable and predictable regulatory regime.

This will culminate in the licensing of the second national operator or SNO, the development of small and medium enterprises, Sentech and value added network operators called or VANS, and pave the way for the necessary legislative amendments, which will be tabled soon. This will particularly seek to address an issue that was highlighted by the Minister of Finance, when he talked about the telephones in the country only reaching about 28,8% of the people.

To ensure the maximum utilisation of state assets to enhance growth, we are proposing that Sentech’s licence should be extended to offer long-distance telecommunications and multimedia services and that Esi-Tel and Transtel should form part of the SNO. This policy and legislative environment will pave the way for the initial public offering of Telkom, because it provides certainty and predictability. Minister Radebe will elaborate on these developments in his budget speech.

I turn over to the programmes we are embarking on. With regard to the public emergency communications centres, we find ourselves in a situation in which many emergency services operate technical and communication systems that are not compatible. The South African public is in need of fast, effective emergency communications in order to address traffic, fire and other local emergency needs. In this regard we are working very closely with local government.

We cannot talk of efficient emergency communications while we use systems which are not linked to each other. To improve the situation, Cabinet has accepted the establishment of a co-ordinated public emergency service. The department will establish a three - digit emergency number, 112 operated nationwide and accessible through call centres, and a national trunk radio network. Sentech has been mandated to lead the process of re-engineering the provision of a national radio trunking network. Early in May a workshop was held by the department in conjunction with Sentech, which hosted local authorities and state agencies involved in the provision of public emergency communications. the amount of R4,3 million has already been allocated to Sentech towards the establishment of such a system and we hope that this will ensure equitable access to infrastructure for all public emergency utilities, urban and rural.

For the establishment of public emergency call centres, the Minister of Finance has already announced that R80 million will be made available over three years.

We have also embarked on a smart card development. In the quest to bridge the digital divide the Department of Home Affairs and the Department of Communications are engaged in the process of ensuring that all South African citizens are part of the information revolution by ensuring that the use this smart card as a form of identification, which stores Government information such as pension details, driver’s licence and other personal information. This long-term programme will enhance Batho Pele, as people will be able to interface with Government in a more effective and friendly manner.

This year the Department of Communications will also continue with its Web Internet Laboratories or Doc Wils, which will be linked up via satellite with the Institute of Satellite and Software Applications, to provide software engineering. This is called the Java project. The Department of Communications will accelerate the deployment of DoC WILs to make this possible, so that our institutions can all be learning something about software and training in the various parts of the country.

The Department of Communications, in consultation with the Department of Health, will also develop a portal that will help to create a network which will facilitate a partnership between the private sector, NGOs, civil society organisations and Government. The portal will provide an entry point for sharing information in the fight against HIV/Aids, and will be known as the Aids portal.

In order to do many of these things, we have to ensure that electronic transactions are conducted in a secure manner and prevent pornography, and the abuse of children and women via the net, and therefore the department will be setting up an internet directory.

As I have spoken here, we have seen how unity in action can actually make us bring about a better life for our people. We have finalised the domestic satellite feasibility study in conjunction with the Department of Trade and Industry, as well as the CSIR. The next step is to identify private sector partners who will invest in this opportunity - Another example of unity in action.

In 1997 Telkom was given a five - year exclusivity period to implement universal access to telecommunications by rolling out infrastructure in underserviced areas and to rebalance tariffs. During the same period Telkom was also required to provide first-time telephone services to over 300 villages and to install more than 20 000 new lines to priority customers such as schools, hospitals, clinics and police stations, and to replace around 1,2 million analogue lines with digital technology.

Telkom was given an option to apply for an extension of its exclusivity for an additional year if it met these targets. I am happy to announce that Telkom is on track to meet its roll-out targets. And after the publication of the policy directives for the post exclusivity period, Telkom decided not to apply for an extension of its exclusivity. Therefore, we expect to take Telkom onto IPO in the fourth quarter of this year. Telkom, we know, is ready to compete in the market.

We, therefore, have to get ready for licensing for competition. The policy directions will be finalised. The following licences will also be issued: the Global Mobile Personal Communications by Sattellite - which is a very long word for GMPCS - and licences for the third or 2,5 generation cellular. These will be considered during the year.

Draft policy directions recognise the need to stimulate economic activity in small towns by providing competition and licensing of small SMMEs, so that they can also provide some of Telkom’s services. They will provide services to areas with a teledensity of less than 1%.

Cognisant of the exclusion of many black people out of this sector, historically disadvantaged people who have been excluded will be allowed to participate. The draft policy directions addresses this matter in a decisive way by setting aside up to 30% of all licences for historically disadvantaged people. And I hope the operative word is ``up to’’.

We successfully set aside 3% of Telkom to Uthingo. I am happy to know that black economic empowerment groups are part and parcel of one of the biggest enterprises in the country. There is no doubt that these kind of transactions will go a long way in our endeavour to deracialise and diversify participation in our economy.

On the broadcasting side, we are restructuring the SABC. To strategically reposition the SABC in the context of a changing media and communications environment, we are going ahead with the restructuring as outlined in the Broadcasting Act of 1999. The new board has experienced many difficulties as a result of numerous vacancies at management level. Vacant posts are now being filled, to enhance the management capacity of the broadcaster. The top three executive positions have already been filled.

The corporatisation of the SABC is now on track, and a memorandum and articles of association have been lodged with the registrar of campanies. A review is under way to clarify the role and social obligations of the SABC. With the constantly changing environment, there is no doubt that such a review will be needed from time to time to ensure that the SABC meets the needs of the entire nation.

Regarding the extension of the SABC’s footprint, infrastructure roll-out of the television network has been disappointing, thus causing great frustration to small towns and rural areas. Many people have to travel from their homes in outlying areas to bigger cities and towns to watch their favourite televised sports events. Many of these are the poor who cannot afford satellite dishes and are, therefore, reliant on the public broadcaster.

The SABC and the signal distributor, Sentec, must resolve their difficulties about the roll-out of the infrastructure and budget allocation process being sorted out in order to achieve this.

In the meantime, Sentec has completed an investigation and planning for the upgrading of the broadcasting infrastructure in certain rural areas. Accordingly, during the current financial year, infrastructure roll-out will take place in the Northern Province, Mpumalanga, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, especially because these are the areas where integrated rural and sustainable development is absolutely crucial.

We are at the threshold of the Millennium Africa Recovery Programme. We have to reposition Channel Africa. The outcome of the journey we have started will also depend on how we communicate and co-operate with each other within and amongst countries. This new environment presents us with a myriad of challenges for Channel Africa. Plans to corporatise Channel Africa are under-way, and there is a need to review our approach to this channel.

This respositioning will entail the adoption of new technologies, programme content and format which appeal to decision-makers and the public on the continent. This will be done through the utilisation of all media platforms such as the Internet, television, radio, etc.

The process of corporatisation of Bop Broadcasting is under way. Rhino Studios is in the process of being sold. We have done a feasibility study for a dedicated education channel. It was found, however, that a better option would be an establishment of a national education network utilising multimedia. We are in discussion with the Department of Education regarding the implementation of this.

A study for the dedicated parliamentary channel is also underway. We are in the process of consulting with the stakeholders, the presiding officers, regulators, the portfolio committee and the industry.

With regard to community radio broadcasting, information dissemination is vital for nation-building and the struggle against poverty, illiteracy, HIV/Aids and crime.

Production hubs have been established in all nine provinces to enable community radio stations to produce their own programmes. People from various stations have been trained to produce these programmes on behalf of their people at their stations as well as at Nemisa.

The skills development and the necessary financial support is being given by training under Nemisa, which is the electronic institute that we have. The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, is a by- product of broadcasting and telecommunications which were merged into one regulatory entity. The capacity of the regulator is a matter of concern. The convergence of the technologies and new complexities of the ICT sector pose new challenges for the authority. The new telecoms policy dispensation will pose additional challenges to the regulator.

To prepare the regulator to deal with these challenges, Cabinet took a decision to increase resources for Icasa, to enable it to meet its regulatory mandate and obligations. The contestations that surrounded the communications authority in the award of the third cellular licence is still in the courts.

The National Electronic Media Institute of South Africa, Nemisa, is moving on. The mandate for Nemisa to contribute to the development of human resources in broadcasting systems is on track. Later this year, the first group of 30 postgraduate students will complete their studies at the institute. These students, the majority of whom are from disadvantaged communities, have been trained in programme production and broadcast business management.

We have set up the Broadcasting Production and Digital Advisory bodies. Both bodies are chaired by women of great intellectual standing.

With regard to the postal services, transformation of the Post Office was, indeed, a challenge. The 1998 Postal Act paved the way for the transformation of the Post Office, and arising from the new legislative environment, the Post Office was given universal service obligations to rollout infrastructure and services in underserviced areas. The transformation of the Post Office was divided into two parts, namely universal access and enterprise reform.

With regard to the extension of infrastructure and provision of cost- effective and quality services, the Post Office has made progress. Targets to increase the number of postal outlets by an additional 600 and the provision of 4 million addresses is on track.

In terms of enterprise reform, the Post Office has not performed as expected, hence the board has requested me to reconsider the strategic management contract entered into with the New Zealand postal services. Cabinet will be considering this request. From our own assessment Government will have to continue supporting the Post Office, while we continue to seek avenues for financial stability.

The impact of technology on the Post Office is enormous. We are in the process of making sure that the Post Office adjust to technological trends and innovations. Internet, electronic mail and the Short Message Service, SMS, are competing directly with the traditional letter business service. This phenomena is global. During the last festive season we saw more SMS festive greetings than the traditional posting of Christmas cards.

Consequently, the Post Office is re-inventing itself. It started a Citizens Post Office in order to adjust to these new challenges. The pilot site was put into operation in Soshanguve in July 2000. This is yet another response to the changing technologies. In another response, the department and the Post Office are rolling out public information terminals and in the year under review 100 such terminals will be set out.

The restructuring of the Post Bank is on track. Consultants have been engaged and the discussions are on-going with the different departments, including the Department of Public Enterprises and the National Treasury. The changes are intended to reduce the institutional barriers in providing credit to SMMEs.

The Communication Sector Summit will be held this year. The first meeting to prepare for the summit has been held with the stakeholders, including civil society and the unions, and the event will be announced in due course.

The department has remained committed to gender equity in its own internal structures and processes. It has moved from a gender representation of 100% male to 75% at the top level. At senior level women have increased from 10% to 30%. The boards and management or portfolio organisations reflect strong participation of both males and females.

At the international level we have made sure that we also participate in many of the events and issues that should take us to the Organisation of Africa Summit Meeting. Globalisation has made consolidation of the African Renaissance even more urgent. There is no doubt that ICTs will play an important role in the realisation of this renewal. In recognition of this, the President has announced the establishment of two bodies, ie, the Task forces on information society and the commission on ICTs.

The Ministers on the African continent, conscious of this need, have, under the ministerial oversight committee chaired by South Africa, restructured the African Telecommunications Union, ATU, set out the African connection centre at the DBSA in Midrand and requested the Presidents of our continents to declare ICTs as one of the priorities of the OAU, because of their importance as a tool to socioeconomic development.

There is no doubt that when the President announced the Millennium Africa programme to us all, we needed to move forward as South Africa to also prepare our own plan. We did this in May 2000. In conclusion, there is, no doubt that our country is on course. Given the fact that ICTs cut across all sectors of health, education, agriculture and safety, we are ready to make the integrated sustainable rural development strategy real.

The focus of Government is to co-ordinate the implementation of its programmes, and I can assure the House that we will play our part because we are now ready, willing and able. I therefore invite this House to help us in this endeavour by voting to approve the budget of R487 523 million for this financial year.

Let me conclude by thanking the director-general of the department, Andile Ngqaba, my advisers, the management and the entire staff of the Ministry. I thank all stakeholders and the law commission, and special thanks to the chairperson of the portfolio committee. We count on the public for their support. I thank all my colleagues, from the advisory groups in Africa, to my colleagues in Cabinet, for their advice, support and sense of humour, and my sincere thanks for allowing me to grow. To my large extended family, I thank them for always being there as my anchor. Let us continue with the creation of a better South Africa for us all. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Madam Speaker, I regret to say that South Africa is making a fourth start in liberalising the telecommunications sector. In fact we have to ask whether the newly announced policy directions do not throw us into reverse. They certainly take a step backward from the existing legal position where, at least, any aspirant operators can apply for a licence even if they have to wait until the Government decides to open up a given licence category.

I refer to the Telecommunications Act, Act 103 of 1996. For all its already old-fashioned shortcomings, it requires transparent nondiscriminatory licencing procedures performed by the independent regulator. So the Minister could say that managed liberalisation is, in fact, what we had to date, because the next logical step that Act anticipates was the opening up of the various licensing categories.

I have said that that Act is old-fashioned. What we should be doing and debating right now, viz-à-vis a new legal framework altogether, is a new communications Act that regulates all of the transmission network and services under one system, recognising the convergence of telecoms, broadcasting and information technology. When one can listen to radio over the Internet or use a cellphone for data applications, then old categories really no longer makes any sense.

Like the European Union, we should accept that -

… there is no objective justification for splitting up authorisations and licences into ever so many service categories. Heavy-handed market access regulation is not in fact in line with the policy objective of stimulating a competitive market.

Our competition commission says the same. It says that unfettered competition is necessary in telecoms.

The single exception to a broad electronic commucations licence, which almost anyone should be able to get authorised, is that services which use spectrum must remain, ie cellphones and terrestrial broadcasting. Why? Because spectrum is finite. It needs old-fashioned licencing procedures.

But now, instead of that, this is what we should be doing. The hon the Minister has drafted no law whatsoever. She has distributed licences and spectrum in the most closed and discriminatory manner possible, mostly to parastatals, as if they are so much largesse at her disposal. It is almost as if she has worked her way through the licensing category section of the Act. … een vir jou, een vir my, maar alles vir die staat, nè. [… one for you, one for me, but everything for the State.]

And I do not quite see how this section is going to be amended to give the parastatals their stakes without losing the idea altogether of transparent licencing, because even future licences have been preallocated. The third generation licences have been preallocated to what will then be the five existing operators.

We have to ask the question: Is it because the hon the Minister does not really intend to liberalise at all, after all? Because we are mindful of the fact that Government’s managed liberalisation initiative forms part of a more interventionist approach and represents a retreat from Gear. The allocation of licences to parastatals only begins to make sense from this perspective, and that does not make sense to us at all.

The hon the Minister said that what she calls the dominant multinationals cannot be avoided, but that their entry could be mediated and the negative effects of globalisation reduced. Instead, the millennium plan for Africa was in fact to be advanced as she has just reiterated.

I wonder and ask myself whether she perhaps has vision of Eskom’s optic fibre-lashed pylons marching from the Cape to Cairo. And I must warn her that the last Minister drove off into Africa chanting ``Africa Connection’’ in a 4x4. He drove off in a 4x4 and disappeared into the desert sunset, never to be seen in politics again. So perhaps she might want to rethink.

The hon the Minister cannot have it both ways in this field. Bridging the digital divide means joining the world and its technological logic.

Our department here has been waffling about convergence for years. It went as far as to converge the two regulators but without touching the underlying statutes. Parliament, in the past year, was asked to vote funds for research in this field, yet here we are with the only sign of attention given to convergence in the policy directions taking the form of something unheard of in the world, the fixed mobile licence, which is to be granted to a somewhat puzzled Telkom 1 and Telkom 2. A mobile licence is the one thing that one cannot converge with other functions because it is spectrum-based and packet switched. Convergence does not mean inventing funny old licences in an ad hoc manner. In short, the Minister has converged in the one place where she cannot and has done nothing to cater for convergence where she ought to have done so.

Lastly, our regulator, ICASA, has been treated like Cinderella through the years, but it is now expected to draft the law which should have emanated from the Ministry. We intend to try to help. For example, regarding the separate regulation of transmission - those broad licences that I described

• if one separately regulates content as with broadcasting, then one solves that long-standing problem that we have had here, that the regulator’s independence is constitutionally enshrined for broadcasting whereas Telekom’s is not. We know that it is more vulnerable to executive interference. That solves that problem and we intend to help. [Interjections.]

Finally, on the matter of telekoms and executive interference. Telekom is not entirely vulnerable. There is precedent in Zimbabwean and European law for protecting telekoms under the freedom of speech and information. Government cannot just close the sector off. It cannot close off communications. There may be a constitutional case which may assist us all as South Africans. [Applause.]

Mr N N KEKANA: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, today we are allocating about R487 million to the Department of Communications. We are confident that the department will put this money to good use. One example of the department’s groundbreaking work is the establishment of the Institute for Satellite and Software Applications. This is a world-class initiative that we should all applaud.

On Saturday, many joined the Minister and the director general in celebrating World Telecommunication Day in style. Issa students hosted the industry, visitors and schoolkids in Grabouw and displayed spectacular models of their acquired knowledge. The DA was not there to witness this remarkable achievement by our Government. [Interjections.] It is therefore not even qualified to participate in this debate, save for the benefit of democracy.

The Portfolio Committee on Communications held a meeting with the council of ICASA this morning to address allegations related to the conduct of one of its councillors. We do have a statement that was prepared and we have released that statement to the public.

We all know what happened with Satra and, today, the third cellular process is still not operational as a certain bidder had taken the whole process to the High Court. As the matter is sub judice I will not commend further, except to say that the delay disadvantages the entire country. More jobs would have been created and users would have received a better quality of service and cheaper prices.

We have learned our lesson. Gone are the days when allegations, rumours or even whispers against a councillor of ICASA would be left to chance. The law has been amended to empower the National Assembly to deal swiftly with any allegation regarding a conflict of interest, any misconduct or wrongdoing on the part of a councillor or, indeed, the entire council.

Our committee will not hesitate to act against any form of misconduct or corruption perpetrated by any person or persons. We do not want legal battles to rage on in our courtrooms.

We must deal with all allegations now, before the regulatory process of licensing the Second National Operator and other operators begins. We appeal to all those who have any allegation, fact or fiction, to reveal them now. The portfolio committee will leave no stone unturned in dealing with any problem. We need a stable, independent regulator that commands absolute confidence from all in the industry and from the Government. The rulings of the regulator must be respected by all. The independent regulator must act fairly and without favour or prejudice. The regulator must treat Telkom and other operators in a nondiscriminatory manner.

We urge operators to negotiate a new interconnection agreement. In the event of a conflict or a deadlock, we call on the regulator to arbitrate effectively. Telkom, Vodacom, MTN and other operators must reach a commercial agreement on a new interconnection regime as soon as possible. We are encouraged by the confidence of the regulator to begin in earnest to meet the deadlines prescribed in the policy directions. We are on the eve of a major overhaul of our telecommunication policy. We are adopting policy directions that will radically alter the quality of service that our people have been receiving up to now. These policy directions signify a break with the past - ending the monopoly of Telkom. We have put the interest of the consumer first and are making rapid progress towards full liberalisation.

With the support of the industry, we have avoided a big bang approach and opted for the gradual introduction of competition. By way of example, India used this big bang approach in opening their cellular market about four years ago. Everything went wrong. They auctioned licences to 22 firms in 42 regions of India. All major international telecommunication companies received the licences, but today each one of them is still struggling to make ends meet.

We have said no, to the big bang approach and the industry agrees with us. The DA on the other hand, wants market forces to rule. They are all alone. The industry is not receptive to this approach.

It is possible to achieve universal service within the framework of managed liberalisation. The regulator, ICASA together with the Universal Service Agency should accurately cost the financing of universal service and guide operators on possible obligations. In the very least, every user in our country deserves a basic affordable voice telephone service on a line that can carry a fax and low-speed data transmission. Even the poor deserve a basic telephone service. Operators must make concessions for low-income groups including people with disability. We need to introduce special tariff schemes for low-income groups.

During our portfolio committee whistle-stop tour of the industry, recently, the DA was at it again as they have been doing today - sowing division and confusion as they usually do. They were mislead by those industry-players, whose main interest is their profit margins, to question the wisdom of our policy directions. The DA accused us of embarrassing the country by proposing a fixed mobile convergence in the new policy directions. Despite our attempt to explain at length what fixed-mobile convergence was all about, they refused to listen or understand.

Today, their view is another demonstration that they still refuse to listen.

We will try one more time perhaps, Madam Smuts and the DA will understand. Our policy directions are a prerequisite for the third generation services expected in just over a year. The new third generation mobile communication with a higher bandwidth, access to the Internet and other multimedia services will offer the current mobile operators advantages over the traditional fixed line services. This is a fact.

These systems and services will enable users of mobile networks to conduct their business without relying on Telkom as a public switched data network or a Public Switched Telephone Network service. What we need is a favourable environment for the introduction of a third-generation mobile service, without destroying our existing telecommunication infrastructure.

The ITU Telecom 99 in Geneva which was about the world coming together - deliberated on what is coming down the pipeline. Debates centred around the integration of fixed and mobile services. The DA should simply surf the ITU website to benefit from this experience and become more informed. [Interjections.]

Ms M SMUTS: Madam Speaker, would the hon member take a question on fixed mobile interconnect, which is what they discussed in Geneva interconnect? [Interjections.]

Mr N N KEKANA: Madam Speaker, no I will not do that. [Interjections.]

Ms M SMUTS: It is what I raised here on the budget debate. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Would you please sit down Madam Smuts.

Mr N N KEKANA: Madam Speaker, there is an article that the hon member should get hold of where that says: fixed mixed mobile, and I quote ``The integration of fixed and mobile poses real challenges but also offer crucial advantages.’’ This is an article that is there. It was there in the ITU Telecom 99.

In order to understand fixed mobile one needs to look at it from the perspective of the consumer. The DA is looking at it from the perspective of the operators. The fixed mobile convergence means connectivity at anytime, anyplace and anywhere. It means technology neutrality. When a customer applies for a service, they do not care whether the operator digs a trench, uses a radio, or whatever technology, all that they want is the service.

To subscribe to many operators is also expensive and unmanageable. Consumers require a simple unified service.

For instance, let us take the case of a doctor - I am using these examples for them to understand; if they do not understand this one, they will never understand them. A doctor has a pager, a cellphone and a fixed line at home and at the surgery. He or she receives a number of bills from different service providers. Surely, that is a problem. The doctor’s patients, family and friends might have to phone a few numbers before locating him or her. What the doctor wants is a common number, perhaps two phones. It is possible - mobile and fixed line, but one number.

There will be an automatic routing of calls without huge expenses for diverting from one network to the other. Many users need an integrated voice mail and a unified system of billing. I surely do need that. I do not need many, many bills.

The fixed mobile convergence will also benefit operators because of the prospect of customer loyalty and customer care. It will also offer service providers the facility to integrate the marketing of their products and services, thus providing users with a better and more accurate service. The generation will eliminate the division between mobile and fixed networks. There will be advanced services equally across fixed and mobile platforms.

It is the Democratic Alliance who, not long ago, wanted to unleash market forces in telecommunications. We firmly believe that neither market forces nor competition laws will deliver universal service or govern the telecommunications market. There are specific regulations that are necessary to ensure fair competition. Many countries throughout the world have opened their telecommunications sector to competition with regulation. The challenge is to combine universal service with competition.

But as one advert says: ``Some people still don’t get it, but they will … very very soon. The point is, new technologies have always made people see things in an entirely new way.

We need to facilitate the development of local content and use advanced services to meet the educational, social and cultural needs of our people. At the core of this local content industry is the viability of the television and radio sectors. A multimedia environment will offer opportunities to develop local content and create jobs.

However, I wish to take issue with a particular segment of the content industry, the advertising industry. The advertising industry is unregulated yet it commands huge budgets that determine what and who create, develop, package and distribute content on television, radio and print. This responsibility is left to the free market, of which Madam Smuts is surely in favour. However, I regret to inform this House that the advertising market is failing the industry and our country, miserably.

Although Government had opened the radio sector to competition, the advertising industry has yet to come to the party. Government has terminated the monopoly of the SABC, yet very little is done to support many new operators in the radio sector. We have hosted a discussion with the marketers and advertisers, but unfortunately we seem to be talking at cross-purposes.

During the portfolio committee tour we visited a number of radio stations that were licensed in Johannesburg and the surrounding areas. Of course, I wish to congratulate Primedia on resolving their corporate governance predicament. But I am afraid, I cannot extend congratulations to other radio stations. It is a fact that many of the private radio stations are struggling to survive, let alone break even. They have the listenership, but not enough advertising revenue. Punt Radio has virtually collapsed.

Let us consider for a moment the case of two radio station, Highveld Stereo and Kaya FM. They have the same footprint, the same number of listeners and the same target audience in the brackets LSM 6, 7 and 8 the only difference being that the one has a predominantly white listenership while the other has a predominantly black listenership. Highveld Stereo receives a huge backing from the advertising industry, while the opposite is, of course, true for Kaya FM. There is an unconfirmed ratio of 100:10. Between the two, Highveld Stereo receives by far the biggest chunk of the advertising cake. Although we do not want to speculate, we cannot deny that there is a problem.

The advertising industry is conservative and lily-white, unlike the majority of the people in this country. Many of the salespersons are young girls who read Style magazine and listen to 5FM, and habitually roam the shopping malls. They do not have a clue about what is happening in the townships or the culture of the majority of South Africans. They are conditioned by the historically influential advertising networks who shift and spend huge budgets without any consideration of the reality in this country.

According to Leadership magazine R199,2 million was spent in the traditionally white media, in contrast to R5,7 million in the black media in 1999 - his, despite the fact that the combined household income of black consumers is far greater than that of white consumers.

This begs the question: Is the advertising industry not an old boy’s network where money circulates among friends and family businesses? In other words, the owners of the media will no doubt favour spending their advertising budgets in businesses of families and friends in the industry. Is this not the case? If this is the case, it clearly presents a conflict of interest, and will result in the unfair treatment of stations which do not have the same arrangement. This situation needs to be addressed.

We have raised this matter with both the Department of Communications and the GCIS, and are seized with this problem. The Director-General on Communications is conducting a snap survey of the viability of the private radio segment, and this will form the basis of discussions later in the year. We will once again invite the advertisers, marketers and radio stations to participate in these discussions.

Meanwhile, we urge all Ministers and Government departments, even at provincial and local levels, to spend their promotion and advertising budgets wisely, and to support the radio stations that are struggling to survive. They have the listenership they need our support. The country needs a multiplicity of broadcasts, many voices in one country. We cannot afford to fail our democracy. We need the support of Government departments. [Applause.]

Mrs S C VOS: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, hon colleagues, the Minister and her department, as hon members have heard, manage a wide range of diverse, hugely complex and highly technical subject matters concerning telecommunications, broadcasting and postal services.

The rapidly expanding, globally competitive multibillion dollar telecommunications and broadcasting industry, in particular, demand the provision of efficient, high quality consumer access and service, as well as evolving and innovative public policy perspectives.

Together these issues, a well as the obvious requirement to educate and empower young persons in these multifaceted fields of endeavour, consume much of the Budget Vote being debated here today, which we support.

Huge amounts are being spent year after year on policy developments, and the director-general has heard that the IFP would like to see more of the fruits of this expensive labour as soon as possible. We share with the Minister and her department concern with regard to many of the problems and challenges they know they face, and some which, I am sure, they wish they did not. In all the areas of telecommunications, broadcasting and postal services, some warning flags simply have to be briefly raised in the limited time available.

Firstly, given the challenges and opportunities flowing from the rapid convergence of technologies and the immediate imperatives telecommunications and broadcasting brought before this Parliament in recent years, many members of the Portfolio Comminttee on Communications admit that the SA Post Office has somehow never received the same kind of attention we have lavished on telecommunications and broadcasting.

Well, as we all know, the Post Office certainly has our attention now that we have just learned that it made a huge loss this year; that it is not meeting its delivery targets; that the board of directors wants to fire its New Zealand management partners; and that skilled black managers are falling over each other to jump ship.

On top of all these, a forensic audit is underway and allegations of corruption continue to abound year after year. One thing is for sure: This Government will have to continue subsidising the Post Office, when the big plan was that it would break even this year. So we have to ask: Where is this money going to come from?

The IFP, for the most part, represents a constituency of the poorest of the poor in our land. Time and again in this House the IFP has made the point that for these people access to postal services is more often than not a financial lifeline and the only means of vital communication with their loved ones living elsewhere.

The Post Office is an economic and social survival hub, and yet we all know that our constituents are being poorly served and, to make matters worse, many are also being swindled by criminal elements that continue to flourish within the organisation.

We have to admit that the Minister and her department have a fiasco on their hands.

We will need to know a lot more, very soon, about precisely how the department is planning to handle that crisis.

Secondly, as much as the IFP agrees, in principle, with Government policy to usher in the managed liberalisation of the telecommunications sector, we are far from convinced that the duopoly is going to substantially benefit South African consumers. Public and private telephone access charges are far too high, given the wages earned by average South Africans. The dangers of Telkom 1 and the future Telkom 2 colluding, with regard to their pricing structures, are all too obvious. We would like to see very real efforts being made by this Government to insist that consumer protection in the sector is vigilantly pursued by the regulator.

That brings the IFP to its next concern, in that regard. When the second national operator, Telkom 2, is in the process of being licensed and various empowerment contenders, domestic and foreign investors are being evaluated, could we please avoid any hint of another Cell C NextCom debacle? The matter is currently under judicial review, as we all know. So, no more can be said but, surely, enough said. On the issue of genuine black empowerment, the IFP notes that too many of the same faces, wearing the same or only slightly different hats, seem to be benefiting from the ongoing redistribution of Government goodies and opportunities that are being created by privatisation. We would like to see innovative ways and means developed to bring large numbers of rural men and women, from throughout the country, into this process of wealth creation and the skills transfer that will automatically follow.

The proposal regarding SMMEs in underserviced areas for the teledensity of less than 1% is a tiny start. But, that must not be used as a sop to marginalise rural people from being resourced and assisted in developing the capacity to compete for a share, too, in the major domestic bids. The IFP has made it clear that it deplores what appears to be an overt lack of general empowerment of women in the actual decision-making and management of Cell-C and calls on constituencies committed to the creation of gender equality throughout South Africa to insist that that is not repeated in the finalised licence framework for the second national operator.

A golden thread running through all discourse about telecommunications and broadcasting is the need for a well-resourced and respected regulator. The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa is cash-strapped and is at present unable to meet its mandate. The director-general has assured the committee that this matter will be resolved shortly. We await developments in that regard. Any further delays will seriously compromise the work and perceived independence of that body which is something that this Parliament should not tolerate.

Finally, our best wishes go to Mr Peter Matlare who has taken over the helm as CEO of the SABC at probably the most difficult time and juncture in this corporation’s history. Transforming the organisation from a state to a public broadcaster clearly had its problems way back in 1994. But, today, Mr Matlare is having to split the SABC into commercial and public entities and cross-subsidise the so-called public channels with the profits of its commercial channel enterprises. As time goes on, I think that we should all remember that Mr Matlare is not the architect of that broadcasting Act policy but merely the poor man who has to try to implement it.

The IFP believes that the exercise is fraught with danger. The IFP has long warned that the Public Service demands of the public broadcaster including, quite correctly, increasing amounts of hugely expensive local content programming will sap the resources of the SABC’s commercial entities which will at the same time be trying to provide their own high quality programming and compete with the likes of eTV, DSTV, successful commercial radio stations and the advertising revenue that those audiences generate.

There is more than enough evidence, as the members have already heard from Mr Kekana, that public broadcasters find it difficult to attract advertising rands and that media buyers, whom we all know are mostly young white women, are refusing to recognise the buying power of black people and the value of black media products. In the context of the SABC, that situation is truely alarming. The media buyers, in turn, say that TV advertising is too expensive and that they would rather put their money with the print media. We have a serious problem and the implications are going to come rebounding right back into this House, with regard to the SABC.

Finally, the Minister and her department are having to grapple with difficult and financially volatile issues. We wish them well and would like to remind them of the old saying: You have to live with criticism. If you do nothing, then nobody will criticise you. [Applause.]

Muf I MUTSILA: Mulangadzulo, kha heyi Vouthu 25 ya Vhudavhidzani, ndi tama u bvisela khagala zwa dziposo, ndo ḓisendeka nga maanḓa nga vhadzulapo vha mahayani ngauri ndi vhaṅwe vha vhathu vho huvhadzeswaho nga muvhuso wa tshiṱalula. Vho vha vho ṅaledzwa, vho hangwiwa nahone vha sa londiwi. (Translation of Venḓa paragraph follows.)

[Ms I MUTSILA: Madam Speaker, when debating this Vote No 25 on Communication, I want to concentrate on postal services to the rural population, because they were victims of severe discrimination. They were neglected, forgotten and not catered for.]

The challenges which are facing us as we seek to make people of our beloved country have better access to all services and postal services, in particular, are the divide between the rich and poor. The foremost challenge is the emerging digital divide between those who have access to digital information and those who do not. This divide threatens to worsen the existing poverty gap between the rich and the poor, and also between the urban and rural population.

The main objective of postal service is the provision of universal service. That ensures that all citizens have equal access to basic letter service that is reasonably accessible to all people in the country, regardless of physical location, at a uniform rate of postage and at an affordable price which offers reliable service.

The postal service is the most basic and common means by which messages can be communicated and goods delivered. Postal service is a basic link which serves the entire population. It also serves as an important medium of communication for business and commerce.

Kha riṋe vhadzulapo vha mahayani, vhudavhidzani ha poso ndi tshi vhangalelwa tsha ndeme, ngauri miṱa yashu yo fhandekanywa. Vhunzhi ha vhanna vha shuma dziḓoroboni na migodini, miṱa yo sala mahayani. Henefho, ndi he ha vha na tshengelo khulu. Vhadzulapo vho vha vha tshi shumisa poso gute dza vho ramavhengele, zwikolo, kereke na zwibadela. Marifhi na thundu dza vhathu zwo vha zwi tshi xela na u ngalangala. (Translation of Venḓa paragraph follows.)

[For us rural people, a postal service is one of the most important commodities, because our families are separated. Most men work in the urban areas and on the mines, leaving their families behind in the rural areas. This led to great suffering. They used private boxes owned by businessmen, schools, churches and hospitals. Their letters and goods used to get lost or disappeared.]

Given that background of how our people suffered, our Government was compelled to commit itself to facilitate the growth of the development of this sector and to ensure the provision of universal and affordable postal service to all South Africans irrespective of race, class, gender, age and geographical location.

Our Government, through this Vote, makes sure that access to reliable and affordable Public Service is no longer a privilege to be enjoyed by the few but that it is the rightful expectation of all citizens, especially those who were previously disadvantaged and that it improves the quality of life of every South African.

Lu ḓo vha lwa u thoma vhutshiloni ha vhadzulapo vha mahayani, hune nṋe nda bva hone, miḓi yavho i tshi ḓo vha na ṋomboro dza nnḓu dzavho na madzina a zwiṱaraṱa zwavho, naho zwiṅwe zwa zwiṱaraṱa zwi tshi nga milila. Ri livhuwa na mahosi ashu vha re na tshumisano ya vhuḓi yo dzikaho na vhalanda vhavho. Vha ita mutingati wa u ḓisa tshanduko hune vha dzula hone. Zwa itea hune vha dzula hone. (Translation of Venḓa paragraph follows.)

[This will be the first time that the rural population, where I come from, will have their houses numbered and the streets named, even though some of them are like pathways. I thank most of our traditional leaders, who work constructively and harmoniously with their subjects. They work together to bring change and allow the process to take place where they are staying.]

The ultimate purpose of communication is to alter the original relationships between people’s own organisms and their environments, so that they are not targets of external forces, but exact forces themselves. In this way people become an effecting agent, affect others, their physical environments and themselves to become a determining factor in the state of the world around them.

Effective information through postal services opens up progress by helping people to find out about development. It is the motto to social activity and civilisation, and thereby animates and sustains life. It inspires and strengthens the spirit of togetherness, and integrates knowledge, organising and power.

Communication informs people about their social, economic, political and cultural environments, and links components of past society and transmits social values, norms and morals. Information not only spreads knowledge, but also stimulates creativity, enhances participation, promotes social cohesion and facilitates the measurements of change. It is directly linked to the exercise of basic human liberty and the freedom of expression.

Vhuḓi na mutoli hoyu wa vhudavhidzani, vhathu vhashu vho zwi shaya. Vho zwi tama vha tshi vhona zwi tshi fhira nga kule, vha balelwa u zwi swikelela. Nga heyi vouthu, nga maanḓa siani ḽa dziposo, i ḓo ḓisa tshanduko kha vhathu vha hashu vhe vha vha vho dzimiwa mvelaphanḓa nga khole. Zwino na vhone vha ḓo ḓi pfa vhe vhathu, vho itwa vhathu. Ngauralo heyi vouthu, ri i tikedza ro khwaṱha. (Translation of Venḓa paragraph follows.)

[The beauty and knowledge of communication was unknown to our people. They just saw it from a distance, but failed to get it. This Vote No 25, more especially as regards postal services, will bring change to people who were deliberately deprived of an opportunity to develop. At least, they will now enjoy the fruits of liberty. Therefore, we strongly support this Vote.]

Lastly, we urge out department to speed up the process of making postboxes functional. They must not be seen as white elephants, which are there to decorate the post offices. Post offices in rural areas should not be removed at all costs, because that is the only source of communication and information for the population in the deep rural area. We urge our department to speed up this process and we congratulate them on whatever progress they are making to bring a better life to all South African citizens. [Applause.]

Mr J J DOWRY: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, during the last few years we have seen a lot of development through the Department of Communications. Many people from the previously disadvantaged groups now have access to telephones, postal addresses and, through the Multipurpose Community Centres, to various other facilities which they did not have before. In the broadcasting field we have also seen community radio stations coming into existence. However, a lot more remains to be done. The country still waits for the third cellular network to be licensed and then of course the SA Post Office is really in bad shape. I want to focus on this aspect of communications.

Aan die positiewe kant van die bedrywighede van die poskantoor is daar natuurlik die verskaffing van honderdduisende nuwe posadresse aan mense wat voorheen nie eens ‘n brief kon ontvang nie. Nietemin kon die poskantoor nog nie naby die beplande vier miljoen nuwe adresse kom nie. Aan die negatiewe kant is daar die choatiese bestuur van die poskantoor se privatiseringsproses. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[On the positive side of the activities of the Post Office there is, of course, the provision of hundreds of thousands of new postal addresses to people who could not even receive a letter in the past. Nevertheless, the post office has not yet been able to get anywhere near the planned four million new addresses. On the negative side there is the chaotic management of ther Post Office’s privatization process.]

In 1999 the New Zealand Post International was appointed to help transform the SA Post Office, to drive postal services to underserviced areas, to help bring delivery to a professional level and to help the Post Office into a financially sound position. What has happened since then, after NZPI received about R185 million for its services? In March 2000 the Post Office reported a loss of R482 million, and in the year ending 31 March this year, the loss was R750 million. If we add to that the 27 skilled black managers who left the service of the SA Post Office, the question arises: to what benefit was the NZPI to the cause of the SA Post Office? Due to all this the Post Office suffered huge setbacks and delivery targets could not be met. Now the board of the SA Post Office, together with key stakeholders such as the Communication Workers Union and the Post and Telecommunications Association has asked for the cancellation of the contract with the NZPI, 18 months before the contract was due to expire. To the credit of the Minister, we must acknowledge the fact that she has launched a full audit into the problems facing the SA Post Office.

Due to all this the Post Office suffered huge setbacks and delivery targets could not be met. Now the board of the SA Post Office, together with key stakeholders such as the Communication Workers Union and the Post and Telecommunication Association, has asked for the cancellation of the contract with the NZPI, 18 months before the contract was due to expire. To the credit of the Minister, we must acknowledge the fact that she has launched a full audit into the problems facing the SA Post Office.

Ons hoop die aantygings wat vroeër vanjaar tydens die staking van poskantoorwerkers deur die CWU, die unie vir kommunikasiewerkers, gemaak is oor korrupsie en ander ongerymdhede binne die poskantoor, deeglik ondersoek sal word.

Een van die aspekte waarin die poskantoor veral gefaal het, is dienslewering. Veral in die Gautenggebied kla mense voortdurend dat hulle nie gereeld hul pos ontvang nie en dat tjeks en ander waardevolle artikels in die pos verlore raak. Groot ondernemings verskuif tans hul sake na private posdienste omdat hulle net nie meer vertroue in die poskantoor se dienslewering het nie.

Mnr Andila Nkaba, DG van die Departement Kommunikasie, het verlede week gesê die poskantoor is die beste toegerus om die Posbank en veral pensioenuitbetalings te behartig. Ek meen tans is dié siening te optimisties, aangesien die publiek se vertroue in die poskantoor daagliks afneem.

My vraag aan die Minister is hoekom soveel poskantore sluit. Dit kan tog nie tot gevolg hê dat dienslewering altyd verbeter nie. Ons weet sekere ekonomiese oorwegings is noodsaaklik, maar die sluiting van sommige poskantore maak nie sin nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

We hope that the allegations made earlier this year by the CWU, the Communication Workers Union, during the strike by post office workers with regard to corruption and other irregularities within the Post Office, will be thoroughly investigated.

One of the aspects in respect of which the Post Office has indeed failed, is service delivery. In the Gauteng area in particular people are constantly complaining that they do not receive their mail regularly and that cheques and other items of value are lost in the post. Large enterprises are now moving their business to private postal services because they simply no longer have confidence in the Post Office’s service delivery.

Last week Mr Andila Nkaba, Director-General of the Department of Communications, said that the Post Office was best equipped to deal with the Post Bank and pension payouts in particular. I am of the opinion that this view is currently too optimistic, as the public’s confidence in the Post Office is declining daily.

My question to the Minister is why so many post offices are closing. This can surely not result in improved service delivery. We know that certain economic considerations are essential, but the closure of some post offices dos not make sense.]

The Waterkloof and Groenkloof post offices in Pretoria were closed without consulting the local community. To say afterwards that no local organised group could be located is just not good enough. According to the Minister’s answer to question 58 in the National Assembly, the Waterkloof and Groenkloof post offices were closed because of their amalgamation with the Brooklyn post office, but soon afterwards the Brooklyn post office was also closed and relocated somewhere else in the same centre. Although dramatically improved service was promised, the people in the area complain constantly about bad service and even sometimes that service is nonexistent.

Na aan leiding van haar verwysing na Bop TV wil ek die Minister graag vra, aangesien die SABC se mandaat is om reg te laat geskied aan die 11 amptelike tale van die land en veral aan die nege inheemse tale, of dit nie moontlik is om veral die Bopkanaal met die SABC te geïntegreer nie? Hy kan dan help om byvoorbeeld ten minste twee tale soos Tshivenda en Afrikaans te akkommodeer. Indien dit moontlik is, kan die SABC ver vorder om sy mandaat ten opsigte van die verskillende amptelike inheemse tale na te kom. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In response to her reference to Bop TV I would like to ask the Minister, since it is the SABC’s mandate to do justice to the 11 indigenous languages in particular, whether it is not possible to integrate the Bop channel in particular with the SABC? It could then help to accommodate at least two languages, such as Tshivenda and Afrikaans, for example. If this were possible, the SABC would make a great deal of progress in meeting its mandate with regard to the various official indigenous languages. [Applause.]]

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, at the outset I wish to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee for the manner in which he has driven the committee thus far. We in the UDM support the Department of Communications in their endeavours to create universal access, so as to enable ordinary people to have access not only to traditional media but also to the convenience of information technology, and will therefore support the Vote.

In programme 2, dealing with telecommunications, the department has emphasised the need for basic telecommunications services in our rural areas. The core of our economic plan is enterprise development, creating the environment enabling every South African to become the creator of his or her own wealth. Within the context of communications, we urge Government to help make it happen by entering into partnerships with SMMEs and large entrepreneurs in order to create healthy and constructive competition, with an insistence on delivery of services to rural areas.

Enjoying a monopoly in telecommunications makes Telkom an unfair competitor. However, we welcome the department’s commitment to developing policies dealing with the post - exclusivity period of Telkom, and competition and trade liberalisation in telecommunications. The possible listing of Telkom shares is a positive development, but will mean nothing to the previously disadvantaged if it is not accompanied by mechanisms by which shares could be accessed by them, and we urge the department to look at this matter cautiously. In fact, I have taken note of what the hon the Minister had to say on this matter this afternoon.

It is hoped that the initial public offering will occur before the end of 2001, as announced by the President. Many national and international telecom stakeholders have expressed concern at the lack of a competitive factor. The competitive spin of the IPO will seriously address job creation, which is pivotal to our economic advancement.

Issues surrounding the third cellular operator licence need to be urgently resolved. Whilst the matter is subjudice, there are important lessons to be learnt. Never again must a similar situation be permitted to develop, as it does not engender investor confidence. The matter has been in limbo for far too long and such delays are not business-friendly. Its resolution will open up the labour and services market, promoting job creation and the delivery of services.

The rate of job-force mobilisation and education will also be rapidly increased. Not only are the legal costs questionable - and I would like to know what the department’s tab is thus far - but taxpayers and bidders are compelled to take the financial tab for this bungling. On the positive side, both current operators are upbeat about the possible success of the third cellular operator. Less than a quarter of cellphone users in our country are on contract. The rest are prepaid users. This means at an amount of R10 per month, prepaid users have access to a world-class service.

The current debate around the registration of prepaid users for security reasons must be driven cautiously. In rolling our telecom services out to all sectors of society, the industry has empowered hawkers, spaza shops, shebeens, rural establishments and so on to sell prepaid. The impact on these intrepreneurs must be carefully considered. The investigation and gathering of information by the department on the subject of spectrum pricing, as well as the allocation of 1 800 spectrum to all mobile and fixed line licensees on terms to be determined by Icasa by September 2001, I am certain, is welcome by the industry. However, industry sources have stated that the lack of adequate capacity at Icasa is hampering the industry. This needs to be seriously addressed. The expenditure estimate for 2001 and 2002 of a R107 million must be adjusted, if need be.

Nkszn N S MTSWENI: Sekela likaNomlomo, ikulumo engaphezulu bengidzubhula uMengameli ekulumeni yakhe ayiqalise esitjhabeni ngomhlaka 9 Frebruwari 2001:

Ngaphambi kwethu yisentjhuri nekulungwana-minyaka etjha. Singena esikhathini esitjha sesentjhuri yeAfrika njengama-Afrika enze isiqiniseko sokobona isentjhuri le ngeyeminyaka elikhulu lapho sizakuqeda ukuba bongazimbi bokutlhaga okwenziwa bunjalo bethu sitjhuguluke sibe bathumbi … Ngesikwenzako sizaqiniseka bona izipi, amalwelwe nokungathuthuki angekhe kusafiniswa nama-Afrika. Ngezenzo zethu sizaqiniseka bona ukutlhaga kutjhidela ihlumo.

Sekela likaNomlomo, Ngqongqotjhe, malunga ahloniphekileko ngiyanilotjhisa egameni labantu. I-World Telecommunications Day yadingidwa ngoMgqibelo ngezi 19 Mayi 2001, ezikweni le Institute for Satellite and Software Application (ISSA). UNgqongqotjhe uDr Matsepe-Casaburri, wamema amalungu we portfolio committee, bona bazoku gidinga naye umnyanya lo oqakatheke kangaka. Ngiyatjho bona ngadana khulu ukungabikho kweenchema eziphikisako. Ngakho-ke ngifuna ukulimukisa amalungu weenchema eziphikisako bona ngomuso babekele phambili immemo ezifana nalezi, khona bazakwazi ukubona ituthuko elethwa nguRhulumende we-ANC, nokuzibophelela anakho ebantwini ezange bafikelele ifundo eyethulwa kwi-ISSA ngesikhathi sokubusa kwenu nina be DA. (Translation of isiNdebele paragraphs follows.)

[Ms N S MTSWENI: Madam Speaker, in his state-of-the nation address on 9 February 2001, the President said:

Ahead of us is a new century and a new millennium. We march into the new era of the African Century as Africans who have made the determination that this century will be a hundred years in which we cease to be victims of our circumstances but victors … By what we do, we will ensure that wars, disease and underdevelopment are no longer seen as being synonymous with Africans. Through our own actions we will ensure that poverty gives way to prosperity.

Madam Speaker, Minister, hon members, I greet you in the name of the people. World Telecommunications Day was celebrated on Saturday 19 May 2001, at the Institute for Satellite and Software Applications (ISSA). The Minister, Dr Matsepe-Casaburri, invited members of the portfolio committee to come and celebrate this important event. I must say I was really disappointed at the absence of opposition parties. I want to advise members of these opposition parties that in future they should first consider such invitations so that they can see the developments made by the Government of the ANC, and its commitment to the people who never got the education offered by the ISSA at the time of their government.]

The private sector in South Africa complains about Icasa’s performance. Icasa will never be able to compete with the private sector even if it can get the necessary funds. This sector is weakening Icasa by recruiting its staff. These are people who are trained by the regulator. I therefore want to urge this sector to practise loyalty to the country by assisting Icasa to keep its competent staff.

We are confident that the issue around the supplementary finance requirements will be addressed before the end of this month. We are aware that according to the CEO, Mr Snakes Nyoka, Icasa is fully committed to playing its part in implementing the new telecommunications policy directives and that the process has already started. This will enable them to maximise the delivery of effective regulatory services within the illustrated, broad timeframes as stipulated in the Telecommunications Act.

Icasa is an engine, therefore the country’s interest should come first. It should top their list of priorities. We therefore wish to bring to the attention of Icasa the provisions of sections that are relevant. These are sections 12 and 18 (e). I will not read them out.

The tendency to want to take us back to the Satra saga should be avoided by all means. We cannot afford to be taken back. We plead with Icasa councillors to work together as a team. It is the country that will suffer if there are problems within Icasa. We will not hesitate to apply the laws whenever necessary, and we therefore urge all councillors to work together to put a strong united regulator that will put our country on the world map.

Telecommunications is recognised internationally as a basic human right. This means governments throughout Africa will be hard-pressed to deliver telephones to the majority of people, especially the historically disadvantaged. Telecommunications liberalisation is the cornerstone of South Africa’s transition, as well as lowering the price of communicating, encouraging innovation and investing in new services and networks.

The hon the Minister of Communications has issued policy directions. These directions are meant to change the lives of our people as far as access is concerned. I must inform the hon Smuts that these are user-/ and people- friendly.

According to the policy directions the small, medium and micro enterprises, including co-operatives, shall be permitted to provide services in the local loop using their own or lease infrastructure. This means that a local line shall be provided to connect a terminal connection point to a local exchange. These historically disadvantaged communities will need support and access to funds.

During the national colloquium there was a feeling that a new separate body be created under the auspices of the Department of Communications to provide support to the ICT SMMEs. The motivation was that the current ITC SMME’s support mechanisms either do not exist or are totally ineffective. The SMME ICT sector should be supported and stimulated, hence reporting and monitoring measures have to be introduced on all operators on the performance and contributions to the ICT SMMEs.

While there are plans, there are still many men controlling the industry. Hon members should remember that when one communicates to a man, one communicates to an individual, yet when one communicates to a woman, one communicates to a nation. It does not mean that just because somebody is in a wheelchair, deaf or blind, that he or she cannot be communicated to. Although in our different constituencies we appreciate good work and success stories about women in the telecommunication sector, we have a real challenge to create opportunities to expose women to technology and to make human resources available to assist women in their businesses.

In discussing black economic empowerment at the national colloquium policy discussion, there was consensus that it was important to establish a clear target for economic empowerment and also general consensus to the concept of national ownership of licence entities at the minimum of 51% of equity. On the issue of BEE, was generally accepted that a target of 30% of company licences under the new regime be allocated to BEE companies and SMMEs.

Not only should empowerment be defined by ownership, but also should include issues regarding procurement, skills development and management skills. The process of awarding a third cellular licence is clouded with many unfortunate developments. If only people were more careful, the process would have been finished by now, as I speak. One is concerned because this involves billions of rands. In our country, in order to reach a service, one has to dial a number of telephones before reaching one’s actual emergency service. Thanks to the department for coming up with the new one number for all South Africans.

We had a lot of unfortunate situations; I experienced one of these situations which I will share with hon members. Early this month one evening my dog started barking nonstop. I went out to check, I found that there was a snake on my doorstep. What came to my mind was an emergency service, more so because nature conservation is against the killing of snakes. I dialled the number that I used last year when I had the same problem, but it rejected me. At the next number I dialled, I was told they were not responsible for snakes. What bothered me most was that if something like this happening to me could with two mobile phones and a fixed line in the house, what about an ordinary man or woman at an underserviced area where a telephone is about five kilometres away.

The telecommunications policy directives call for the establishment of a new public emergency telephone number and an integrated public call centre that will be called an intergrated public emergency communication centre. The 112 emergency number calls for the improvement of access to telecommunications services. Telkom must make sure that all disadvantaged people have telephones. In order to access the 112 number, one needs a telephone to connect into the emergency number.

The SABC must come up with a programme that will promote the 112 number instead of than popularising the American 119 number. We appreciate the amount allocated to this project, but we think it will need more funds. The Government communications system should make sure that people are informed, because no information is disinformation. We should make sure that leaders who go around confusing people about what Government is doing do not stand a chance.

In conclusion, yes, a better life has not reached everybody, but we are on course. I want to commend the Department of Communications for the support they are giving the gender unit in the department. I want to thank the DG and his staff for whatever good work they are doing. I would like to call on the departments were this gender units have not been established that they must take some notes from the Department of Communications. I support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Before I call on the next speaker, I would like to recognise a delegation from China, led by the Vice-Minister of State Security, Mr Song Ping. Welcome to the Parliament of South Africa. [Applause.]

Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and hon members, we are all aware that modern technology, especially the Internet and electronic mail, is determining the way communication will be done.

The future is literally being shaped by the younger generation, especially since the computer age has become a natural way of life for them. The youth of today has more power than ever before to determine what the future may look like. It is an urgent imperative that South Africa, for the sake of the future of its youth, improves its investments in technology. The communications environment needs to enjoy critical attention.

Any child who is not computer literate in the new millennium would be as disadvantaged as a child in the 60s and 70s who could not read or write. Computer literacy must be a compulsory subject for all children and must be introduced at primary school level. There are schools which have computers, but many of them lack trained staff to effeciently use the tools. An effective and efficient knowledge-based society is not a pipe dream any longer, but a necessity.

Budget allocation for the department has declined from R766,9 million, to about R486 million. The reason for this is that the subsidy for the Post Office will be terminated. The SABC will also see its subsidy being reduced by about R45 million. I would propose that the department asks the Ministry of Finance to allow it to use its funds to implement a communications infrastructure within our schools and community organisations. In that way the department will work together with the Department of Education.

With regard to community radio stations, it is the view of the ACDP that Christian braodcasting in South Africa is under threat, especially with reference to Christian community radio stations. If one examines, case by case, licence hearings that are being conducted by Icasa, one soon comes to the realisation that applications by Christian community radio stations are treated very harshly and with no symphathy. The independence of Icasa becomes questionable when applicants who promote Christian radio and TV are treated with contempt.

A case in point is the applications of Link FM and Imonti who were vying for the same frequency. Link FM had a far harder and indepth interrogation by Icasa than Imonti. In fact, it is the longest interrogation on record by Icasa. Despite the good work done by Link FM and the support from all communities, the community radio licence was finally given to Imonti. As a result, Link FM took Icasa to court because of their biased approach.

Radio King Fisher is another case in point. After the license authority refused to award a community radio licence to Radio King Fisher, the matter was taken to court which ruled in favour of Radio King Fisher, and Icasa has been instructed to reasses that application.

The cost of this mistake by Icasa to the taxpayer was over R200 000. We accept this Budget Vote today, this should not give Icasa the green light to continue with its mismanagement and shameful treatment of Christian broadcasters.

Another case in point is TBN when it applied for the renewal of their community TV licence. TBN has been broadcasting in South Africa for the past 15 years. The renewal of its licence is being refused by Icasa and TBN’s application is treated as a new licence application. List of questions TBN had to answer include such great detail that it has cost it up to R80 000 to collate all the answers.

With regard to the Post Office, the organisation has shown that it cannot expect an extension of its subsidy due to mismanagement. The ACDP calls on the Minister to investigate thoroughly what went wrong with the New Zealand partnership. The investigative and forensic firm that will be examining the financial irregularities at the Post Office must also be tasked to give us an assessment of whether proper procedures were followed when this foreign firms were allocated the contracts. We have heard of senior executives in the Post Office linking their salaries to the rand-dollar exchange rate. This means that if the rand falls against the dollar, their salaries would increase.

With regard to restructuring and competitive performances, these are relatively new experiences for the avarage state employee. Foreign firms are not always aware of this and many times their tactics appear harsh and unsympathetic. This is the reason for the strike by the Communication Workers Union.

With these few words, ACDP supports the Budget Vote.

Mr V C GORE: Madam Speaker, may I beg your indulgence and that of the House for a few moment?. Owing to the unacceptable levels of access to resources for disabled persons in Parliament, I have not been afforded efficient resources to prepare adequately for this debate. If we as Parliament are committed to equality, then I invite members of this House to assist me and others in rectifying this situation. [Applause.]

If the priority of Government is to condemn South Africans to the wrong side of the digital divide, then with all due respect, this Government has gone beyond the call of duty.

The Minister of Communications has achieved some accomplishments in the past year. We are finally pleased to see the release of the Green Paper on e-commerce, the establishment of Icasa and the beginning of the roll out of MPCCs, which will help to bridge the digital divide.

Has the Minister done enough in closing this divide? Sadly, the answer is, ``No’’. Government quite correctly identified communications sector as a major driver for the South African economy. The ANC-led Government has still not got this right. The telecommunications sector contributes less than 10% to GDP.

As a country, we should begin to set high targets in this regard. For example, a country such as Germany believes that 20% to 30% of GDP is achievable.

Turning to another failure, the department, in a very noble attempt to increase teledensity, decreed that granting Telkom a monopoly in the fixedline market would best serve universal access. Their latest policy directions continue with this trend by licensing an SNO and, perhaps, a third national operator in a few years’ time.

This tinkering with managed liberalisation, monopolies and duopolies is doing nothing for the progress so urgently required. What this country needs, and what the consumer and the South African citizen demands is free and fair competition.

I would like to ask the hon Kekana why we continue to ignore international and local experience in this regard? A country such as Brazil has managed, through competition, to provide telecommunication services to millions of Brazilians. Vodacom and MTN have, in sevem years, connected more than 10 million customers.

Of course, there is a constant temptation for policy-makers and regulators to design markets, products and prices outside of market forces. However, experience abroard constantly shows that minimising this ``cookbook’’ approach to competition maximises the social and economic benefits of liberalisation.

Conversely, we have seen that monopolies - and, for that matter, duopolies

• do not work. For example, Telkom has disconnected 200 000 fixed lines and charges up to 60% more for particular services than some international competitors.

If Government is serious about providing affordable and quality communications to all South Africans, then it has to seriously address issues such as universal access, the digital divide and leapfrogging, and not simply pay lip service to these issues. In conclussion, if the Minister chooses or allows competition to do the delivering, she will give the nation a fighting chance. [Applause.]

Mr M A MAZIYA: Madam Speaker, Ministers and members, last year Cabinet approved the restructuring of the Post Bank as part of its comprehensive programme to restructure the state-owned assets.

Subsequently, a strategic management partner was appointed to facilitate the restructuring. The restructuring is based on the following points. Firstly, to provide for greater autonomy and separate financial statements with the intention of corporatising the Post Bank and, secondly, either to introduce the strategic partner or an initial public offering to recapitalise the bank.

The Post Bank, therefore, is an important financial institution that is in a position to influence economic growth in our country through its ability to mobilise savings. The mission of this institution is to offer easy-to- understand, reliable, secure and affordable services to the masses of our country, especially the unbankable and rural communities. This will broaden the participation of people in financial markets and will satisfy the most basic financial service needs, especially of the poorest, the least mobile segments of the rural population.

The ANC-led Government has embarked on a very critical intervention strategy to better and improve the lives of the rural people. The integrated sustainable rural development strategy cannot be implemented in isolation of the financial services that are within the context of rural development objectives of the Reconstruction and Development Programme.

The so-called unbanked sector of the population, both in rural and urban areas, will benefit from the restructured and focused Post Bank. The Post Bank already has approximately 1,8 million active savers, with savings to the value of R700 million. Once it begins its operation as a separate business aimed at providing service for lower-income earners, its client base is likely to double or treble. The post bank general manager, Billy Thlabanelo, says that the bank shall be running as a full revenue bank for its target market within two to three years.

It is further encouraging to note that apart from savings and deposits, the Post Bank will have a range of savings and deposits products as required by its customers. The poor or the unbanked sector of the population need accessible basic banking services.

Currently there are 2 000 Post Bank outlets in the country. At the moment the Post Bank uses all these facilities of the Post Office. However, it must expand so that it is accessible to its clients.

The expansion programme will establish retail outlets at supermarkets and pharmacies, with the flexibility of operating times that will ensure that people are conveniently serviced at all times. As the Post Bank offers the service of payment and money transfers, will assist its clients to move funds from one area to another.

It is very dificult for people without current accounts to move funds from one place to another. People who are in urban areas and families in rural areas need a reliable and affordable system to transfer money. The Post Bank is well-placed to offer this type of service.

The Strauss Commission that was appointed in January 1995 to look at and report on these matters, looked into the question of broadening the participation of rural people in financial markets by proposing diverse financing mechanism to ensure access to financial services with the emphasis on saving mobilisation. The recommendation of the Strauss Commission were threefold. Firstly, as far as savings products are concerned, it recommended greater availability of access to appropriate saving products and more opportunities for mobilising rural savings. Secondly, tailor-made products could be made available and provision should be made to give incentives for increased savings. It further recommended improved transmission services, with special attention to the processing of pension payments. Assistance was to be rendered to rural people in paying for services such as water supply, electricity and telecommunications. Thirdly, there was a focus on consumption, smoothing and productive loans which, amongst others, would have to be translated into financial assistance for farm and farm activities.

If all these requirements are successfully implemented, this will go a long way in ensuring that all sectors of the population are part and parcel of the economic growth of this country, and the realisation of the objectives of the Reconstruction and Development Programme.

Commercial banks are inclined to focus on higher-income groups, and this leaves a significant portion of the population, particularly those in rural areas, not serviced. It is, therefore, highly recommended that the Post Bank should include credit facilities in their services. The emergence and the proliferation of microlenders is an indication that this sector of the population requires this product from a reliable institution like the Post Bank.

Interest rates charged by microlenders to the poor are unacceptably high. Therefore, I believe that the post bank can safely make a significant difference in this particular area of credit facilities.

This can be extended to small business entrepreneurs like street vendors, hawkers and small-scale farmers. These types of clients will contribute significantly in their respective rural communities to economic growth, food security and job creation.

In Bangladesh a shining example is a grameen bank which serves the poor, particularly women in rural areas. The grameen bank began as a government project in 1976 and got established in 1983 as an independent bank. It continued to provide financial resources to the poor on reasonable terms and continued to generate productive self-employment.

The customers of the grameen bank were landless peasants who took out small loans for all types of economic activities, including housing. What is even more interesting is that 70% of the borrowers were rural women. The remarkable accomplishment was the phenomenal recovery rate. Only 4% of grameen loans were overdue. They managed to achieve this because of a specialised system of intensive credit supervision.

The grameen bank in Bangladesh is the most appropriate where lessons could be learnt from. It is my honest belief that the Post Bank is the best suitable candidate to offer similar types of services as the grameen bank. This will definitely contribute to sustainable quality jobs, food security and stimulate local economic development. The integrated sustainable rural development strategy can thus be complemented and the lives of millions of rural communities especially women improved.

This can be a bold move to include rural people into the mainstream of the economy. The long queues which are the order of the day during the payment of social grants are a further burden for the eldlerly. It is rather sad and unfortunate that senior citizens and the recipients of the other grants cannot meet the criterion to open accounts with commercial banking institutions.

While understanding that servicing the lower end of the market with high transaction volumes with no values is an expensive business, the Post Bank has a social responsibility not to exclude lower income earners. If the Post Bank offers credit and all other services which I have mentioned, it will be able to break through and even dominate this market. The Government’s decision to establish the Post Bank as a separate legal entity will transform the live and millions of millions of people whose relative poverty and geographical obscurity have excluded them from the retail banking services.

The ANC, through the RDP, demonstrates its noble intentions that the poorest of the poor are part of the mainstream economy, making sure that their lives are improved. There is no doubt that the Post Bank will ultimately result in a better life for all. [Applause.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, technology is the buzzword of our day. A country that stays behind and does not keep track of the newest technologies might never be able to catch up again. That makes this department so important for South Africa. This department and its activities determine whether South Africa will be part of the exciting new communication world or stay behind forever.

Ek het minder as twee minute tyd vir twee sake. Die VF wil eerstens die direkteur-generaal gelukwens met sy departement se pogings om die probleme rakende nooddienste en noodnommers aan te spreek. As die departement se beplanning slaag, behoort Suid-Afrika binnekort slegs een noodnommer, naamlik 112 te skakel as daar iewers ‘n krisis is. Tans verskil die noodnommers van gebied tot gebied, en is daar geen versekering dat die betrokke nommer wat jy skakel nie dié van ‘n naburige gebied is of dié van ‘n gebied is waar hulle jou nie meer kan help nie. Die VF steun hierdie voorstel, en sal graag daarmee saamstem dat daarvoor geld begroot word.

In die tweede plek, een van die doelstellings van hierdie department is om gemeenskapradiostasies orals in Suid-Afrika te vestig. Toe die wet destyds bespreek is, het die wet slegs voorsiening gemaak vir gemeenskapradiostasies wat op geografiese grondslag toegeken word. So ‘n stasie lewer diens aan alle persone binne die geografiese gebied waarvoor die lisensie toegeken is. Dit is baie nodig, en die VF steun die gedagte van geografiese gemeenskapradiostasies.

Die probleem is dat so ‘n stasie baie moeilik aandag aan minderhede soos godsdiensminderheidsgroepe, of taal- en kultuurgroepe in daardie betrokke gebied kan gee. Daarom het ons voorgestel dat die wet ook ‘n tweede tipe radiolisensie, naamlik ``community of interest’’ lisensies, of dan radiolisensies wat ‘n spesifieke belangegroep dien, moet hê. Moslem en Christen radiolisensies word so toegeken. Zulu, Sotho en Afrikaanse radiolisensies kan so toegeken word.

Die afgelope tyd het Icasa ongeveer eweveel aansoeke vir geografiese- en belangestasies ontvang. 26% van die geografiese aansoeke is afgekeur, terwyl 77% van die belange-aansoeke, dit is nou die godsdiens- en kultuurstasies, afgekeur is. Dit terwyl 13 van die 36 belangestasies geen kompetisie gehad het nie. Dit maak nie sin nie. Dit veroorsaak ‘n woede daar waar daar stasies is wat lank uitgesaai het. Hoe kan ons meer geld vir Icasa gee as die organisasie berekend besig is om godsdiens- en taalstasies daarmee dood te maak.

Ons stem nie daarmee saam nie. Ons dink dit is ‘n fout. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I have less than two minutes for two issues. Firstly, the FF would like to congratulate the director-general on his department’s attempts to address the problems with regard to emergency services and emergency numbers. If the department’s planning is successful, South Africa should soon only have to dial one emergency number, namely 112, if there is a crisis somewhere. The emergency numbers currently vary from region to region, and there is no guarantee that the relevant number which one dials is not that of a neighbouring area or of an area where they cannot help you. The FF supports this proposal, and will gladly agree to money being budgeted for it.

In the second place, one of the aims of this department is to establish community radio stations all over South Africa. At the time that the Act was discussed, it only made provision for community radio stations allocated on a geographic basis. Such a station delivers a service to all people within the geographic region for which the licence is allocated. This is very necessary, and the FF supports the idea of geographic community radio stations.

The problem is that such a station has difficulty in giving attention to minorities like religious minority groups, or linguistic and cultural groups in that particular region. For that reason we proposed that the Act should also have a second type of radio licence, namely community of interest licences, or radio licences which serve a specific interest group. Muslim and Christian radio licences are allocated in this way. Zulu, Sotho and Afrikaans radio licences can be allocated in this way.

Recently Icasa has received approximately the same number of applications for geographic and community of interest stations. Twenty-six per cent of the geographic applications were turned down, while 77% of the community of interest applications, that is the religious and cultural stations, were turned down. That while 13 of the 36 community of interest stations had no competition. This does not make sense. This creates anger where there are stations which have been broadcasting for a long time. How can we give Icasa more money if the organisation is using it to deliberately kill religious and linguistic stations? We do not agree with that. We think it is a mistake.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, there is so much monopoly in the commucations sector that any attempt to introduces a competitor is met with the greatest obstruction.

That Eskom Enterprises is ready to start rolling out a fibre optic network as a second national operator is something to be happy about. But one has Telkom balking and claiming that they have up to 2003 to operate and will not let in another service provider. ATNT, a US-based telecommunications operator, has a value-added network service licence in South Africa and can offer a bandwidth which is eight times faster than that of Telkom.

The monopoly enjoyed by the 70% state-owned Telkom has to cease and make room for competition. It takes them more than a week to repair a telephone line with a technical fault in an urban area. The Government should take note that the WTO commitments, to which South Africa is signatory, require that Telkom provide nondiscriminatory access to and use of its facilities for the supply of a value-added network service.

Television has become controversial because of its language policy. Some indigenous languages are not satisfactorily catered for in the programmes of the national broadcaster - eg news is never read in languages such as Xitsonga and Tshivenda - while others are lumped together in one bulletin or the other. This impacts negatively on the development of these languages. Sign language is used rather too sparingly, more of which should grace our screens. One may ask the question: When will the Bop-TV signal be accessible to the greater South Africa, to allow viewers wider choice of channels?

We commend, however, Icasa for the position the regulator took in allocating times for the party election broadcast in the run-up to the local government elections. The regulator maintained that it was a completely new election to all parties and they were allocated equal election broadcast on all national radio stations, depending on where the parties contested. We hope they maintain the same principle even in the future elections.

While we appreciate that there are 11 official languages, they may not be spoken all at the same time. Each radio station has its designated language and that has to be maintained. The radio, while serving as an entertainment medium, has to serve as a teaching instrument. Purity of language should be the hallmark of each broadcasting station.

Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and members, the secrecies surrounding the postal contracts seems to be symptomatic of the Department of Communications at large, which fails even to answer parliamentary questions, some of which have been clogging up the Order Paper for an unbelievable three years.

During 1999 I asked 25 questions to the Minister, of which 16 were answered. Last year I asked the Minister an additional 25 questions, many being repeats from the previous year and only three out of 25 were answered, 12%.

The questions I have asked ranged from the cost of the now defunct counter system Excellpos, which, according to minutes of a board meeting, cost the taxpayer R170 million. I have also asked questions relating to the financial situation at the Wits region concerning the R12,7 million that was written off and the salary sacrifice scheme that was never accepted by the receiver of revenue, had little or no administrative control and led to the Post Office owing Sars R8,3 million in VAT.

Another question I would like to ask the Minister here today is: Why was the former CEO, Mr Frank Touwen, paid two cheques of R0,5 million each after his services were terminated, while Max Mayisela was a very generously paid acting CEO. However, vital questions from my side concerned the strategic management partnership contract with the New Zealand Post and Royal Mail, costing R185 million.

During our sparring over the contract, the Minister threatened to sue me. Well, I am still waiting.

So, 20 months later and after R143 million, the Minister has now decided that she would like to terminate the contract. That raises several questions, the obvious ones being why, and why now? We see reports in the press that the vision of achieving breakeven status lies in tatters and that certain obligations were not met. There is only one obligation that was not met and that was around service performance where a target of 92% was set, and 90,1 was achieved - a mere shortfall of 1,9%.

We would like to hear from the Minister, as an answer to the taxpayer, what the cost of the termination of the contract will be and why she feels that it is necessary to terminate the contract after spending R143 million.

Another point of concern is that over the years, and definitely from 1993, around R100 million has been deposited into the Post Office pension fund in order to reflect a greater loss just before the finalisation of the financial records. Once the new annual subsidy has been approved, the amount is transferred back into the Post Office account. There is a great possibility that this has just recently happened.

As a result, we are compelled to insist that the Auditor-General should examine closely the financial statements of the Post office and that the reports of Kroll Associates be made public immediately in order to allay the fear that there is something to hide. There are so many questions which are without answers and I trust that the hon Minister will give us some answers today. Mr E S MAGASHULE: Madam Speaker, hon members, historically, South Africa’s mainstream media has largely been owned and controlled by a minority, particularly big business and what was regarded as the apartheid state. The views, perspectives and values of the people in those groups were reflected in most of their newspapers, radio and TV programmes. In terms of white education it is usually said that white apartheid education domesticated. Ek dink Waters is nog nat agter die ore. [I think Waters is still wet behind the ears.]

The 1952 apartheid Radio Act and the 1976 apartheid Broadcasting Act, primarily laid the rules for the SABC and other broadcasters to air their programmes. The SABC radio and TV stations were used by successive apartheid governments as state broadcasters. The grand plan of the architects of apartheid was to establish ethnic based radio and TV stations, Bop TV radio Transkei and other TBVC radio stations were established soon after the bantustans’ independence. This means that SABC controlled and owned almost all public and commercial broadcasting stations during the heydays of the apartheid era.

Unlike today, the history of the services rendered by the SABC reflected the view of the fascist NP and that of separate and unequal development. Apartheid broadcasting and colonialism divided many communities and used discriminatory policies to restrict and control communication between people. The mass media language and other means of communication were used by the few to dominate the majority of South Africans.

Since the destruction of apartheid broadcasting, the new political system ushered in the re-regulation of the SABC. The aim of that was to introduce the new role-players in the broadcasting arena and to place the regulation of the broadcasting system in the hands of an independent broadcasting authority.

Since the ANC-led Government seized power, freedom of expression by the media is protected. That is why the DP can actually talk today. In terms of the access to information section in the Constitution journalists, today, are given access to governmental information, which never happened during apartheid times. The changes in broadcasting, since 1994, have not been imposed by the state. The SABC today can draw on a wide range of previously excluded professional producers.

Prior to the restructuring of the SABC, it relied on in-house producers in conjunction with a small group of outside contractors for the production of TV material. In 1994 the restructured SABC Board and management expanded their range of outside production resources.

Television today focuses its attention on, particularly, the following aspects of broadcasting. It realises the importance of locally produced programmes in the main South African languages, since viewers easily identify with the information, education and entertainment offered in locally manufactured programmes.

It is important to run TV stations in a way that will have a positive impact on the growth of indigenous talent capable of producing for both the local and international TV, and feature film market. The public broadcaster, today, purports to fulfil its social responsibility to South Africans. The missing kid campaign which commenced in October 1999 on SABC 1 is a prime example of a resounding success. The success of this programme has been recognised on two international TV channels, namely, CBS and CNN International.

The SABC is also paying special attention to the Aids Awareness Campaign. To this effect, a special documentary on how truck drivers who travel into Africa face the threat of HIV was commissioned and broadcast on the SABC 3 channel.

It is clear that in a democratic society like ours, which is under the ANC leadership, the free flow of information introduces a multiple-choice of ideas that equip and expose people to interact with each other and also interpret events around them. It is commendable that the department has established 36 community radio stations in six provinces and 25 multimedia centres in schools for people with disabilities. Twenty-two radio stations were launched and basic radio equipment was provided at a cost of more than R300 000 per station.

I wish to urge ICASA to work closely with NDDA, once it is established, to support community radio. Service delivery indicators are: the implementation of the recommended restructuring of the SABC, the commercialisation of Channel Africa, the installation of community radio stations in rural and peri-urban areas, a parliamentary channel and a communications policy on people with disabilities.

It is clear that the budget allocation will enable the department to focus on the following objectives: Firstly, to assist the country with taking advantage of the convergence in communications technologies; secondly, to enable the broadcasting system to reflect the identity and diverse nature of South Africa; thirdly, to reflect the multilingual and diverse nature of South Africa by promoting the entire spectrum of cultural backgrounds and official languages; and finally, to set up a broadcasting system based on universal access, nation-building and education.

In conclusion, I want to take this opportunity to salute the Minister, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Communications, the Director- General and all the staff members for their dedication and hard work. To the SABC Board and the chief executive officer, I would like to say that we are aware of the enormity of the problems and challenges facing the SABC. [Interjections.] Nevertheless, they should remember their mandate. They should not to fail our local producers and our people. They should make their mark and never forget what apartheid broadcasting did to our country. We also hope that SABC will have clear editorial policies and radically transform the newsroom. [Interjections.]

I also take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Mathata Tsedu for his appointment. [Interjections.] South Africa, under the leadership of the ANC and the President, is a place of hope for all humanity, unlike South Africa that was under apartheid.

I am sure that everybody will agree with us that today Dene Smuts is a demoralised person. But I am sure that out of Dene Smuts we will be able to create a human being. We are going to assist in building her. I think Dene Smuts is not always focusing in committee work. She is worried about the Western Cape battles. I am sure we will take this opportunity to ensure that we groom a person out of her. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon members for the contributions that they have made, and the support they have given us in those things that we have done right. I just want to respond to some of them. I will not respond to all of them.

With regard to the hon Dene Smuts, she has indeed said what I have often said: we need to come into the world. But we have not answered the question: On whose terms, and at what cost? We certainly, as South Africans, are not going to enter this world only on the terms that others have set for us. We must also participate in the setting up of those terms and estimate the cost to us, and what is the benefit for us. That is what we must do.

On the issue of the fixed mobile, I think the hon Nat Kekana has indeed dealt with the matter. I have just come back from Europe, and a month or two ago I was in Africa where everybody was talking about the fixed mobile. Therefore, I am not so sure whether South Africans are the ones left behind in the digital devide. I thought maybe many Africans were left behind in the digital divide, but maybe somewhere South Africans were also left behind.

In the case of the role of the state, if we look at the issue of managed liberalisation, most of the states, particularly in Europe, liberalised at a time when they had achieved certain levels of teledensity. They did not liberalise when they had such low teledensity. We therefore cannot just follow what other countries are doing without also looking at the lessons that we have learned. Managed liberalisation is to ensure that, as we grow and open, we also make sure that the majority of the people come into the world. And the majority of this country are not the minority that was catered for by the previous government, but is a majority that is looked after by this ANC Government. We have already talked about the avoidance of the big bang.

With regard to the African Connection, I would just like to thank many of the members of the portfolio committee who went to Houwteq for the ISSA celebration of World Telecommunications Day, because they have brought that message. Those who were left behind and did not come, do not know what message we took to Africa. That is why they think the African Connection is dead. It is alive and kicking, and doing very, very well.

Hon members would have heard the message that I took on behalf of the Ministers of this continent to the LDC conference in Europe, ie what that message was and its nature. But what it was telling us is that we, as African Ministers, do have a mission for this continent. Therefore, the African Connection is very much alive.

We would also like to thank all the others who have made contributions, in particular Susan Vos for her supportive way and cautions, because I think some of the cautionary measures she stated are very, very important. We cannot, however, say that a geopoly is not necessarily the answer. We have to be vigilant that the geopoly does not undermine those things that we want to achieve, for example the reduction of costs, etc.

With regard to the issue that has been brought up about emergency services, these are very important to us, as ordinary people. And I include myself in that, because when my aunt’s daughter is attacked in Soweto and cannot get through to a hospital, an ambulance or the police to come over for three hours at three o’clock in the morning, and has to contact me at five o’clock, then we know that there is a problem. The emergency services are, indeed, intended to bring about an equity amongst blacks and whites, rural and urban people, and those that are not so rural or not so urban. I therefore thank her very much. With regard to the issues that Mr Waters has raised, I would like to just say to him that, indeed, I have noticed, that he was asking the same questions, and sometimes that was precisely the reason I said this could not be urgent. Either he was being provocative or he wanted to catch me out for telling a lie, and I do not want to be accused of telling a lie. But I would also like to say that a number of issues he raised, which he said are problems with the Post Office, are indeed problems that arose out of the agreement that have been made by the previous government. The deals that were made as the new Government was coming in on pension funds and medical aid for pensioners have created huge deficits in the Post Office. What is causing the problems for the Post Office is that debt is overhanging. It is particularly the new entrants - those who do not look like those who have been there before, unfortunately - who are paying for these deficits that were created by the previous government, because the medical aid alone has a deficit of R1,5 billion. I think we should take note of that. The other questions I will certainly try to answer.

Mr Mfundisi of the ACDP has raised the issue of ATNT. ATNT could indeed certainly provide all kinds of services. But because ATNT is also expanding into a new market, digitalisation for us will bring about the changes. We cannot be sure that when ATNT comes in it will necessarily want to focus on Venda, Lebowa and Qwaqwa, because that is where the poor of the poorest live. We have to ensure that as we use the capacities the infrastructure that Telkom, Transtel and Esi-Tel have, in order to ensure that all communities are brought into this new economy, and not just ``some people’’ whilst we leave out others. I think that is what we are doing. The intention is not to create a monopoly. That is why we say that anybody can come in and participate.

With regard to Mr Abram’s question around the retail sale of shares in Telkom, we would indeed like to encourage ordinary people, stokvels, societies, churches, youths and their clubs to also be able to buy shares. We will certainly be looking into a mechanism to ensure that there is increasing access for ordinary people in the schemes that have been made, eg Ikageng and Phuthuma, which we are evaluating to see how, indeed, we will be able to bring access to ordinary people.

With regard to the issue that was raised about Brazil and its successes, I hope we do not want to compare ourselves with Brazil on a superficial level. Brazil has been a country at the site of the new economy for quite some time. Rio de Janeiro alone has 7 million people and Sâo Paulo has about 10 million people, if I am correct. None of the cities of South Africa have that kind of population. So when we make comparisons, we must make comparisons between apples and apples, and not apples and pears.

We would also like to draw the House’s attention to the fact that when we talk about the Second National Operator, Esi-Tel and Transtel being included in this, the intention is to maximise a large investment that Government has already made in these companies. To expect that Government must abandon this infrastructure would be wasting the country’s investment.

Vivendi in France, for example, which is now one of the major telecommunications companies, comes from a power company. The involvement of power and rail companies is not unique to South Africa. We are learning from others, but we are making sure that the lessons that we have learned are adapted to our own conditions and our own situation where, for example, the majority of black people are exluded from participation. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 4 - Home Affairs:

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, it is indeed a great pleasure for me to introduce the debate on the Home Affairs Budget Vote Appropriation Bill for the year 2001-02 financial year.

On this occasion, I wish to pay tribute to my former Deputy, the hon Dr Lindiwe Sisulu. She ably shared the responsibilities of the Home Affairs portfolio with me for two terms of office. I wish to sincerely thank her for the support that I received from her over that period. Her professional and hands-on approach to tackling problems will remain her legacy within the Department of Home Affairs. I wish Dr Sisulu well in her new portfolio as Minister of Intelligence.

I also wish to welcome the new Deputy, the hon Mr Charles Nqakula, into the Home Affairs fold. I trust that we will work together as a team in the same congenial manner that Dr Sisulu and I did. Mr Nqakula brings to the department a wealth of experience which can only benefit the department and its clients.

The Department of Home Affairs has had great achievements over the past years. Through the hard work and dedication of many of its officials, we have been able to perform tasks that are virtually miracles. I know how hard many people work and the difficult conditions under which they often go that extra mile to please our clients, who are the entire population of South Africa.

I am very appreciative of the efforts that our people render in order to make up for the deficiency in the structures and procedures of the Department of Home Affairs. Most of those who work for the department are exceptional people and are, indeed, an asset to our line functions. However, no matter how often we can help our clients, the few times in which we fall short are unfortunately those that are remembered and focused on, particularly in the media. Reports in the media recently, following the tabling in Parliament of the Public Service Commission’s Report titled Home Affairs Batho Pele and Management Audit Investigations, leading to certain members of this House demanding my dismissal, bear this out. That happened despite the fact that the report was based on investigations conducted in 1999 and early 2000 and covered a period when the department was without a director-general who, as members know, is the chief executive officer of the department and that the department had already embarked on a extensive programme of service delivery improvements.

The many problems that the department is experiencing are only marginally caused by its people. To a greater extent, they are caused by our lack of resources. To solve the problem of inadequate resources, we must find ways and means of doing things differently and design adequate structures to that end. In that respect, we need a new vision which starts at the delivery interface between our structures and our clients in respect of our civic affairs and migration control functions. We need to find ways and means of performing those tasks more simply and effectively and with fewer resources.

A strategic plan can never be seen in isolation from the budget allocated to my department. I reported in detail in the past year’s Home Affairs Budget Vote Appropriation Bill, if members can remember, on the insufficient funding in every sphere of activity of my department. Unfortunately, the situation this year looks no different. In fact, for the 2001-02 financial year, the budget allocation of the department, personnel expenditure and transfer payment excluded, has decreased by 5,9% when compared to the previous year. That is unbearable when one takes into account the increase in the services that are expected from the Department of Home Affairs.

For years, the challenges and delivery demands on both migration control and civic affairs have dramatically increased while the resources available to us to meet them have decreased in real terms. We are constantly confronted with having to do more with increasingly less, not in relative but in absolute terms. Every year the backlog increases thus compounding pressures and the gap between what is needed and what is available so that even if the underfunding was to cease this year, additional resources would be required to bring our functions up to par.

That severe underfunding impacts negatively on all the activities of the department and, consequently, on the level of service delivery. It has impaired a number of the department’s identified priorities such as the upgrading of the Population Register, the upgrading of the movement control system and the taking over of 14 border posts from the SA Police Service at their request.

The legal cases, often arising out of deficient legislation which my department defends, resulted in expenditure of over R3 million in the past year. Yet, with the current budgeted allocation, only R1 million is available for that purpose. Furthermore, although the computerisation of departmental offices and linking them to the departmental mainframe in order to optimise service delivery has been identified as one of the strategic goals, the practical implementation of that will be seriously hampered by insufficient funding. National Treasury has already indicated that the department should consider public-private partnerships for the funding of those priorities.

Due to those budget constraints, the department has had to place a moratorium on the filling of all vacancies since 1998. As a result of that moratorium and the vacancies created by a number of personnel taking voluntary severence packages, the department had a vacancy rate of 19,2% on its establishment for almost the whole of year 2000. The effect of that can be seen in the statistical decrease in almost all the services that are rendered by the Department of Home Affairs.

During the latter part of the year 2000 a stage was reached where the department, with its existing personnel, could no longer render a professional and efficient service to its clients. The morale amongst existing personnel had become low during the tremendous workload and continous working of overtime and, with backlogs increasing steadily, it had become imperative to appoint additional staff to avoid serious embarrassment.

Bearing in mind that vacancies as a result of voluntary severance packages may not be filled, it was, however, imperative that the 765 ordinary vacancies on the establishment of the department at that time be filled without delay. However, the cost of filling those vacancies would amount to R59 million in respect of the first year and with a carry-through effect. Those were funds that were obviously not available. Consequently, through a process of critical analysis, 231 posts were identified for filling and were to be funded from savings accomplished by extreme belt-tightening efforts elsewhere in the department. The process of filling those 231 critical posts commenced in November 2000 and will be completed within the foreseeable future.

Despite that exercise, the department still had a vacancy rate of 16,1% on its establishment on 31 March 2001. To render world-class service while operating with 84% of staff establishment, determined on the basis of the needs six years ago, is absolutely impossible. I repeat that we are operating at 84% of the staff establishment needed six years ago when the department was not even contemplating rising to the present challenges of offering equally distributed and high quality civic affairs services to all our population and running a world-class migration control system.

It has clearly become imperative that a scientifically-based staff establishment for the department be compiled, taking into account not where we were six years ago but where we wish to be in five to 15 years. We need to redesign and restructure our two functions that is migration control and civic affairs and scientifically determine, on the basis of a strategic vision, the establishment required to exercise such functions so restructured. The necessary funding must then be obtained to suitably fill the posts concerned in order to render the kind of service that members of the public expect and deserve.

I have the political will to bring about that necessary transformation of my department. But, unless there is a concomitant political will to fund that transformation, our clients will not receive the quality services that they expect from us. There must also be a political will to accept my good faith and competence in dealing with the dramatic problems confronting my department. For too long I have found myself pulling in one direction while others were pulling the opposite way, in fear that I might have gone the wrong way, but without a clear understanding of the relevant issues and solutions.

Restructuring must follow and progressively implement a clear long-term vision for both civic affairs and migration control, which have both grown out of their original mould.

In respect of civic affairs, following the new demarcation of municipalities, my department has embarked on a process of re-evaluating the present location of its network of offices, so as to endeavour to align this with the new municipal areas. This is obviously a long-term exercise, but is part of the ongoing efforts to improve the department’s service delivery to the public of South Africa. However, the fundamental issue of the unequal distribution of civic affairs services across the territory cannot be solved within the present paradigm. It requires the type of restructuring I mentioned earlier.

Apartheid has left us with a concentration of our offices in affluent areas and with vastly inadequate resources where the majority of our people live and where, because of historical backlogs, the need for our services is most intense. Where we need the greatest resources we have the least. This problem cannot be solved by pouring resources into rural or neglected areas, for we do not have the massive resources required and, even if we had them, the gearing-up process would be too long and would defeat the goal of equalising our service distribution. Similarly, the vented simplistic idea of moving resources around is no solution, because the cost of transferring an office often exceeds that of opening a new one, and because it would cause a dramatic negative difference on the service delivery quality where offices are closed without affecting the overall need for more offices across the country.

As mentioned in the President’s State-of-the-nation Address, we need a more structured and intergrated solution. We will need to devolve the delivery of civic affairs functions to municipalities in order to provide a long- term, stable and sustainable solution to the problem. This is an essential part of the overall strategy of reforming and restructuring our department which I mentioned earlier. On the basis of the presentation I gave to the Cabinet Lekgotla, I instructed the department to begin studying and planning the transfer of the delivery functions of civic affairs to municipalities and traditional authorities.

Municipalities are equally distributed across the territory of South Africa. There is no reason why in our country one should not be able to receive birth and death certificates, identity documents and other civic affairs services from municipalities, as one can in most countries of the world. It is also cheaper and more effective to build capacity and employ resources in municipalities rather than building our own Home Affairs capacity wherever it is required. In fact, the capacity which can be built in municipalities by transferring to them the resources we would otherwise utilise to open new Home Affairs offices can also be employed by municipalities for other services, for instance either for other Government

• delegated functions, such as the delivery of welfare services, or other municipal services which can be delivered by the same office and with the same staff, in the same place.

Once the delivery aspect of civic affairs is devolved to municipalities, the central Government will maintain all powers and functions relating to the Population Register and the National Identification System, including fingerprinting, and any policy and legislation relating thereto. In this context, our department will help build capacity in municipalities, maintain the integrity of the system and access protocols, ensure the uniformity of equipment used and, generally speaking, monitor how municipalities perform their functions, and assist them as and when required. Simply put, as far as civic affairs are concerned, the functions of Home Affairs can be concentrated in Pretoria and in regional offices, without having to employ own offices to deliver to the public.

This type of restructuring is the flip side of the same coin which will enable our department to deal with the problems and inadequacy it experiences in respect of its function of migration control. Indeed, the reform of migration control and the delegation of powers and functions to municipalities are two complementary sides of the same long-term reform and restructuring of our department. In fact, the present delivery structures, offices and personnel of the department will be able to be directed more suitably towards the exercise of migration control. Indeed, migration control is less sensitive to the requirement of equal distribution of offices across the territory, and our present allocation of resources and offices fairly reflects the distributional needs of migration control activities across the territory. We will start from the restructuring of migration control, as we are in the process of overhauling the legislation and we need a new administrative machinery to operate the new law.

The intention expressed during the past five years of policy formulation was that of expediting this restructuring by encapsulating migration control in a distinct statutory body, totally under the policy and legal control of Government, the envisaged immigration service. However, Cabinet resolved that migration control shall remain within the department. Therefore, we hope that we will receive the necessary support and co- operation from all stakeholders in bringing about this difficult and sensitive restructuring, even without the flexibility that a statutory body would have given us. The restructuring of migration control will, by consequence, cause the restructuring of civic affairs.

While pursuing this long-term vision, and in preparation thereof, my department has also, with the blessing of our colleagues in the Department of Provincial and Local Government, embarked on a process of negotiating with local and rural authorities for co-operation in the rendering of civic services. These negotiations have met with positive responses from several quarters. My department is also co-operating closely with the GCIS initiative to establish Multipurpose Community Centres to integrate service delivery at community level, especially in rural areas. These Multipurpose Community Centres have allowed for close collaboration between national, provincial and local government, as these centres are homes for Government services in different spheres. The department will participate in all the Multipurpose Community Centres and will ensure that appropriate staff is made available for these purposes. I had the privilege of performing the official opening, on the invitation of the GCIS, of a Multipurpose Community Centre at Mpuluzi in the Mpumalanga province just a few months ago.

Improving service delivery also pertains to the services that Home Affairs renders in respect of foreigners. The department has grown used to administering migration control in terms of the Aliens Control Act and at times fails to accept that, from the viewpoint of our clients, the function of migration control has become inadequate and ineffective in sustaining present pressures and satisfying future challenges. The inefficiency and inadequacy of migration control is one of the contributing factors preventing our country from acquiring the skills and human resources it needs to grow and prosper. For instance, members will notice from our annual report that the number of work permits applied for and issued last year has dramatically dropped from that of preceding years. A contributing cause of this phenomenon is likely to be found in the many obstacles our current legislation and practices have placed on such permit applications, including the incongruous prohibition to adjust status within the country, say from that of a visitor to that of a work permit holder, which forces foreigners to leave South Africa first if they wish to be employed here.

After five years of intense policy formulation, a new vision for migration control in the 21st century has been developed, which has been embodied in the Immigration Bill which will now be tabled in Parliament. After nine months of deliberation, last week Cabinet approved the tabling of this Bill in Parliament. The original draft Immigration Bill was produced and circulated for comments amongst the stakeholders and role-players beginning from October 1999. Resulting from this process of consultation, a draft Bill was published on 15 February 2000. The publication of this draft Bill was itself a culmination of a consistent process of policy formulation, during which a Green Paper was drafted on the basis of public participation, and approved by Cabinet. Then a White Paper was formulated on the basis of public hearings and extensive public participation and was adopted by Cabinet, with extensive amendments, more than two years ago. The White Paper itself became the object of extensive comments solicited after its publication and before we began drafting the new Bill.

Since the publication of the Bill fifteen months ago, consultations continue. The Bill was discussed at Nedlac and at an international consultative conference which was held last July here in Cape Town. It was then tabled in Cabinet last July and became the object of intense Cabinet scrutiny and unprecedented interdepartmental consultations. This process led His Excellency the Deputy President in a Cabinet committee to say ever since he was appointed, he had never prsided over a discussion of any item for three hours.

This process led to almost 80 amendments being made to the Bill between July and August of last year. The Bill was then left in abeyance requiring further reflection. Deliberations on it began again in Cabinet this year and a workshop on the Bill was held on 24 April. During this new round of Cabinet deliberations, it was decided that the immigration service, as suggested by the Green and White Papers would not be established. Instead of encapsulating migration control in a distinct statutory regulatory body, it was decided that it should remain within the ordinary line function of the Department of Home Affairs. It was further decided that the Immigration Board would not exercise executive powers, but only advisory powers.

Given the length and publicity which have surrounded this tortuous process of policy formulation, many hon members are familiar with the features and purposes of the new Bill. The latest version of the Bill has been posted on our website for the past two weeks. At this juncture, it shall suffice to remind members that the main thrust of the new legislation will be that of simplifying the processing of temporary and permanent residence permit application, so as to attract the required skills to our country and to move administrative capacity towards law enforcement and the prevention, detection and investigation of illegal aliens and their removal from the country.

The President, in his state-of-the-nation address, mentioned the urgent review of immigration laws and procedures as one of the priority actions to stimulate the economy of the country. The Bill has received wide support in civil society, in spite of being part of what will always remain a controversial field, and I trust that this Bill will pass through the parliamentary process in the current year.

In his state-of-the-ation-address, the President has indicated his wish that Parliament process this Bill, and the parliamentary schedule reflects this hope. My department and the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs will work hand in hand in processing this Bill, and I have assured the committee that my staff and I will and I be available at all times to provide whatever assistance the committee may require in this task, which I know from experience to be a very difficult and complex one.

On 1 April 2001 was the first anniversary of the entry into force of the Refugees Act 1998, and its regulations and implementation of the new refugee status determination procedure. The Act increased the structure of the Refugees Appeal Board from one person to three persons and broadened the scope of the Board. Furthermore, the Act required that the powers of the Standing Committee on Refugee Affairs be delegated and decentralised to the Regional Directorates of the Department of Home Affairs. Five Refugee Reception Offices were established in Braamfontien, Port Elizabeth, Cape Town, Pretoria and Durban. Although the Department requested an additional amount of R11,218 million to implement the Refugee Reception Offices as required by the Act, it could only make provision for R1,3 million to fill some of the posts at the Refugee Reception Offices.

Recently, my department has implemented a number of measures that will enhance the situation of refugees and asylum seekers in South Africa. As hon members may have read in press reports, some of these measures have been controversial, including those embodied in a circular adopted without prior consultation with me or my office, as should happen in respect of policy matters of this nature. I have instructed the department to deal with any matter relating to refugee affairs in terms of the strictest compliance possible with applicable international law rules and standards, and that such circular be reviewed in terms thereof. This has led to the circular being withdrawn and the department having to tender costs to settle a lawsuit challenging its validity.

The exercise to clear the backlog of asylum applications which were active and pending at the date of the coming into force of the new refugee status determination procedures, embarked on with the assistance of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees and the SA Human Rights Commission, was completed on 31 March 2001.

Turning now to civil services, I wish to say that I am proud to restate that in the run-up to the municipal elections, my department was able to cope with the demand for identity documents. No prospective voter was disenfranchised as a result of my department’s inability to provide the necessary documentation on time. It is unfortunate that we never receive a single bouquet of flowers for having performed so well, but only bricks. It is in fact heartening to be able to say that despite the staffing levels mentioned earlier, the department is currently able to exceed the service delivery standards of six weeks and issue identity documents within two to four weeks only from the date of application. In addition to the normal issuing of identity documents, my department put special measures in place during the year 2000 in order to assist welfare beneficiaries to obtain barcoded identity documents in cases where pensions have been suspended. In this respect a total number of 3 905 applications were in fact finalised.

A major challenge that the department has embarked on is the Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis of which most hon members will be aware of by now. This project consisting of the automation of the Department’s manual finger printing system and the issuing of a new smart identity card, should be seen as more than a new identity card project. It is, in fact, the advent of electronic governance in South Africa. This card will eventually become the key to accessing Government and other social services.

The Department of Home Affairs has been working very closely with a number of other departments in the arena of smart cards and e-governance. A request for information was published in this regard in July 2000, with a closing date of 31 August 2000. The outcome of this request for information requesting inputs from the information technology industry and other stakeholders, was then used to undertake a thorough investigation into the viability of implementing smart cards as the national identity card. A recommendation in this regard is to be submitted to Cabinet soon. It is also envisaged that the card will eventually be used by a number of private organisations such as banks, insurance companies, medical aid schemes and many more to combat fraud.

The benefits of reduced fraud in these practices should result in substantially higher profits and therefore increase revenue to the state through taxes. Cabinet has recently approved the establishment of a commission to monitor each stage of development and the implementation of the Hanis project and the related procurement, to assess available options so as to avoid any possibility of impropriety and to look into any possible allegation from the public which may emerge at any time. This Commission is headed by Prof Fink Haysom and he has recommended two additional commissioners with expertise in contracts, accounting and information technology whom I have appointed.

The possible implementation of e-governance and e-commerce will be closely coupled to the envisaged identity card. This follows the international trend of many countries moving towards e-governance and accepting digital signatures for all forms of transactions. The technical interdepartmental team is also considering how the proposed identity card can be used to assist other departments in improving services to the citizens of the country, by using the identity card as a key enabling factor to various systems.

The new identity card will form part of the Hanis currently being implemted by Maplus Consortium. The Hanis will, through fingerprint technology, ensure that a person only qualifies for a single identity number.

Once the system has ensured that a person is not already registered with different personal particulars, it will initiate the personalisation of an identity card. The identity card will contain visual particulars together with encoded data of the person. This encoded data will be used by various systems to assist in the delivery of services once the person’s identity has been successfully verified.

The envisaged uses of the smart ID card will offer state-of-the-art technology and utility to the citizenry, and also enable South Africa to leapfrog, as it were, most of the world’s technology competitors. The smart ID card will be the new face of Government services, reinforcing the Batho Pele principle to which we subscribe. It will enhance Government services by making them more efficient and bringing them closer to the citizens, who are our clients.

In the coming year both our department and Elect the Independents Electoral Commission will commence important projects in the electoral field, reviewing South African electoral legislation and practices. The department will carry out its responsibility of piloting the substitution of the Electoral Act of 1998 with a new one, which will also consolidate it with the Local Government Municipal Electoral Act of 2000 into one electoral Act and bring it inline.

This process will require important and delicate policy decisions, in respect of which I have already written to members of the Portfolio Committees on Home Affairs, Justice and Constitutional Development, to ensure their attentive participation in the process of policy formulation, leading to a new electoral law.

It was formally announced that Cabinet had approved the establishment of a task team, comprising one representative appointed by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, one appointed by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, one appointed by the Chairperson of the IEC, two appointed by myself and the Chief Director of Legal Services of the Department of Home Affairs.

The task team, supposed to be chaired by Dr F Van Zyl Slabbert, is meant to be appointed to draft the new electoral law on the basis of interdepartmental co-ordination and a consultative process with relevant role-players and stakeholders. The task team is expected to liaise closely with the two relevant portfolio committees of this House and with political parties. Unfortunately, in spite of such public announcement, which is the only reason I mention this at all, the finalisation and appointment of this task team has not yet taken place, and I have not acted on it, as I am awaiting the resolution of a certain pending matter which rests with His Excellency, the Deputy President who, as we know, is carrying a very heavy load on his shoulders and, therefore, whatever delay we see, it is something we understand, because he has a very difficult task.

I would like to say that my colleague, the Deputy Minister will deal with matters which fall under his direct line function, for instance the Government printing works and the Films Control Act.

In conclusion, I wish to thank the Immigrants Selection Board and its various committees, as well as the Film and Publication Board and the Film and Publication Review Board which have again rendered excellent services over the past year. I also wish to thank Mr Mokoena and his portfolio committee for their inputs, enabling us to run this very complex department.

The various statutory bodies falling under the budget appropriation of this department fulfil their responsibilities independently and mostly with little acknowledgement of the importance and magnitude of the tasks they fulfil.

I also wish to thank the parliamentary committees of both Houses - I am sorry, I have said this already - for their co-operation and the work they have performed with regard to the affairs of my department. I thank hon members for listening to me and trust that we can enter into a fruitful debate. I thank hon members for being scared of the fact that I was going to appeal to the Deputy Speaker if they made any noise during my delivery.

[Applause.]

Mr D A MOKOENA: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of the House, I rise in support of Budget Vote 4 on Home Affairs on behalf of the ANC. On 11 May 2000, I stood here and participated in the Budget Vote debate on Home Affairs. Obviously, I am not going to repeat that speech. However, I would like to reiterate the main point that I made then, and which is still relevant today.

I do this to maintain a consistent thrust of our approach to Home Affairs as the ANC. This approach is not inspired by some naive Utopian political impulse of constructive engagement that would result in the creation of some melting pot wherein the identity of political parties would disappear. Rather, it is aimed at strengthening the threads that weave the tapestry of our inchoate, nonracial and democratic dispensation.

We in the ANC are of the view that Home Affairs should under no circumstances be politicised, because the issues it deals with affect the whole populace. It does not matter to what political party the Minister who heads Home Affairs belongs. We must all maintain this consistency. Home Affairs is the bedrock of any country. It is the heartbeat of the nation. It is the premier ministry in any country, as one of my comrades will illustrate later on in the debate.

However, this does not mean that MPs should not be critical of some of the aspects of this Ministry which may well be blatantly wrong. However, in doing so, we must try by all means to be supportive and constructive.

Let me refer to highlights. It is not all gloom and doom in Home Affairs. I am pleased to list the following as the highlights of Home Affairs.

One, we have the Independent Electoral Commission which was established by an Act of Parliament and accounts to parliament through Home Affairs.

Two, we have managed to deal decisively with the problems surrounding the former director-general.

Three, we have a new, enthusiastic, dynamic and dilligent director-general in the person of Mr Billie Masethla.

Four, we have managed to sort out the contravercies that were surrounding the people who were running the Lindela Holding Centre in Krugersdorp.

Five, we have passed the Identification Amendment Bill that recognises the green bar-coded ID as the sole document for voting.

Six, we have passed the Refugees Act, which came into effect on 1 April last year, which, inter alia, enables South Africa to be in line with the United Nations’ rules that provide guidance on the handling of refugees.

Seven, we have adopted significant protocols and conventions.

Eight, we have a newly appointed Deputy Minister, the hon Charles Nqakula. I congratulate him on his appointment. The Deputy Minister displays a balanced disposition. His inclusion in Home Affairs will further advance the gains already made.

Nine, I have the privilege of chairing a portfolio committee that has developed a culture of engaging in robust debates without sinking into the quagmire of political polemics for their own sake.

Ten, we passed the Municipal Electoral Bill 2000, which ensured the smooth running of the first nonracial, democratic municipal elections. This has resulted in the creation of approximately 284, municipal structures throughout the country.

Eleven, the portfolio committee has excelled itself in producing a comprehensive handbook on Home Affairs as a guide to MPs for parliamentary constituency offices.

This unique publication will also be of use to the general public, research institutions, other Ministries, etc, and will be updated from time to time. [Applause.] I would like to thank members for the applause. The compilation of this handbook shows how it is possible for politicians to work hand in hand with officials for the common good. We thank the Department of Home Affairs for helping us with the material of compilation.

Last but not least, the twelfth point is that we have Minister Mangosuthu Buthelezi, the leader of the IFP, who was in his earlier days a capable leader of the ANCYL. [Applause.] Dr Buthelezi has been brave and conscientious to take the bull by the horns in starting the process that will lead to the adoption of a credible immigration Bill soon. No, that hon member is wrong this time.

Regarding the budget, the portfolio committee shares the serious concern of the Ministry and the department that Home Affairs has been underfunded for a long time. In addressing the problem of an acute underfunding, the portfolio committee wrote a letter of motivation to the then Department of State Expenditure to ask for R59 million, which the department required for the 2000 local government elections. This was, regrettably, declined and much to the chagrin and embarrassment of the portfolio committee.

In the past week after the director gerneral had briefed the portfolio committee, we wrote another to the Minister of Finance letter and asked for a meeting with him to discuss the underfunding of Home Affairs. The Minister was courteous to respond timeously. Although, in terms of the budgetary procedure, there can be no immediate remedy, he has conceded to our concern. He said, and I quote his letter: ``We do, indeed, need to improve the physical facilities in Home Affairs’’, and he advised that the Department should highlight this need in the June submission to the Treasury for the 2002 Budget.

Of course, we welcome the invitation by the Minister of Finance that the committee should submit comments and suggestions on the medium-term allocations for 2000, 2003 and 2004 for consideration in the 2002 Budget process.

Regarding transformation, we have noted that a great deal more needs to be done in this area in Home Affairs. The portfolio committee is pleased to note in the Minister’s speech on 8 May 2001 that he said ``I my instruction I also instructed the Department to abandon ideas of redesigning the Department before we build on the plans which are already in place and fix most of its problems and shortcomings’’. We are eagerly awaiting that report, especially in respect of salient points of actual transformation, not only in the physical sense, but in its soul, as it is the dynamo for social change.

With regard to the border control, in keeping with the oversight role that we are constitutionally entrusted with, the portfolio committee visited Beit Bridge, near Messina and Skilpadshek, near Mafikeng on 2 and 3 April 2001 respectively. A detailed report will be tabled in the National Assembly next week, and copies will be sent to the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the Director General.

By all accounts, we were well-received by the respective regional directors. However, we were horrified by the appalling state of the infrastructure of those border posts and reports of corruption.

At Beit Bridge, we found that a great deal of fraud occurred. I will illustrate this by citing the following instances. Firstly, South Africa has an incentive scheme for people to export goods made in South Africa. This incentive scheme is being exploited by people in the following manners. Firstly, a truckload -members should imagine a truckload - of South African goods is taken through the border post to create the impression that the goods are destined to be sold outside our border. The goods are then brought back to South Africa at a later stage through another border post or other fraudulent means. Such goods are then sold back in South Africa. Apart from the profit that is made by selling them, a VAT refund is claimed for exporting South African goods.

Secondly, a bill of entry of goods is processed without any goods ever leaving the country. This scheme works on the basis that one dishonest person in customs and excise, and another one in immigration are needed to clear a bill of goods that never really existed. After the fraud has taken place, it is nearly impossible to prove that such goods never went through the border post.

Another form of fraud occurs when people without proper documentation bribe either immigration officials, SAPS members or SANDF members to enter the country illegally.

The director-general has, however, reported to the portfolio committee that strict measures have been installed to decisively deal with corruption by the introduction of an anticorruption unit within Home Affairs. Moreover, what is pleasing is the fact that the Cabinet security cluster, of which Home Affairs is part, is far advanced in setting up a computerised network to identify anybody guilty of the violation of the law.

Again, on the issue of border control, the portfolio committee intends undertaking an extensive tour of SADC countries during the winter recess. One of my colleagues will expound on the strategic purpose of this visit.

As alluded to earlier in my speech, I would like to urge the Department to prepare a special motivation to Treasury for finance to be utilised for the physical improvement of Home Affairs offices, as these are a public face of our country to tourists and international entrepreneurs who come here looking for all sorts of business opportunities, particularly investment opportunities.

Regarding the vpopulation register, the director general stunned the portfolio committee when he addressed us on 15 May 2001 where, inter alia, he mentioned the fact that the population register of our country is contained in some 60 million files which are in hard copy format and not yet computerised, and that he finds it difficult even to access some of them, and that these 60 million files are lying somewhere on the basement of some building.

Now, the Batho Pele principle does not only refer to the fact that people must come first in sequential and mechanistic manner, but that those are valuable assets of our people and the information of the whole country - the heart of the country - We urge that, in addition, the money requested for the improvement of the physical facilities of Home Affairs must be set aside for the electronic posting of the population register. [Time] [Applause.]

Mr G A J GROBLER: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Minister and hon members, once a year during Budget Votes debates political parties always have the opportunity to discuss various Budget Votes. That is a time when one debates the issues around the expenditure in the future, but also have to look at what happened with the funds that were allocated in the previous years.

I am going to concentrate on the Independent Electoral Commission’s budget listed under Vote N0 4 table 49: Auxiliary and associated services. In the limited time at my disposal, I would like to draw the House’s attention to the activities, particularly around the IEC.

Members will recall that in the previous Budget Vote, much was said about the amounts and funds set aside for the Municipal Elections in December

1. The Minister also spent a lot of time here explaining the fact that his Department was underfunded. But, what really is of concern to the DA today is not so much the amount of money that was allocated to the departments or, in this case, the IEC. But a much greater concern is the lack of control or shall we rather say no financial control at all which is symptomatic of so many departments in all governmental levels, ranging from national, provincial and local government. What is new?

If one looks at the way these funds have been controlled at the IEC, it is, to say the least, shocking.

Last week we received reports from the Auditor-General for the financial years 1997-98, not 1999-2000. We need a miracle for that. It is no wonder that the Minister of Finance is reluctant to give money to this department. By not giving more moneys he, at least, makes sure that there is less money to waste.

Let me read a few comments out the Auditor-General’s report on the IEC’s financial statements, and I quote:

The financial statements were not submitted on time. The audit was further delayed because of various unsolved matters. The lack of reliable fixed asset register and the private use of vehicles could not be determined, no PAYE tax was deducted in respect of fringe benefits, etc.

Is this what some Ministers once called struggle bookkeeping? Where is Minister Omar?

Let us talk about the municipal elections. What does the lack of control over the assets of the IEC got to do with elections, more so the last elections? Clause 7 of the Electoral Act - a clause that the DP opposed when the original Bill was

discussed - makes provision for a voter whose name does not appear on the voters’ roll but who can prove that he or she has registered as a voter - provided the barcode from the zip-zip machine is in his or her document - is eligible to vote if he or she completes the MEC 7 form.

I asked the question to the Minister whether the zip-zip machines - this is the point I am getting to -

have yet to be returned, and how many. I received the following answer, and I quote:

It is at this stage not possible to determine if any zip-zip machines that were used for registrations or re-registration have not been returned.

That means any number of zip-zip machines may have been and may still be floating around in the hands of wrong people. Why then do we have time limits to register? If the department cannot control the usage of major assets like motor vehicles, how can we expect them to control the usage of smaller assets like zip-zip machines?

I would like to tell this House about what happened in the real world on 5 December 2000, in ward 8 of the Midvaal Council. It is controlled by the DA. Fourty-three percent of the total voters in that ward voted on MEC 7 forms. Two hundred and ninety seven of the votes from the informal settlement Sicelo voted by completing the MEC 7b form. Far more than 100% of the voters voted in Ward 8, all with barcoded printouts in their IDs. The voting station ran out of ballot papers and they voted on photocopies of ballot papers. The dates, ie the years reflected on the zip-zip printouts were 2056, 2096 and so forth, not 2000.

When we brought this to the attention of the presiding officer, she said that she had seen it, but ``they’’ - I wondered who that was - had told her that the person who handled the machine was not familiar with the machine and could not operate it properly. [Interjections.] Was the person trained, or was it a floating, uncontrolled assets, hon Jannie?

Mr N J GOGOTYA: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Seeing that the hon member is giving us so much detail, will the hon member tell us who won the election in that particular ward?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That is not a point of order. Please carry on, hon member.

Mr G A J GROBLER: He is missing a good speech; I will tell him after the speech. The hon member must listen. He is missing a good speech. [Interjections.]

What did we do? We filed a complaint with the relevant officials within the time limit prescribed by law. We also contacted an attorney, who looked at all the legal aspects. I personally delivered all the documents to the office of Mr Norman du Plessis in Walker Street, Sunnyside, Pretoria.

But the electoral office carried on and declared the ANC candidate the elected councillor for Ward 8. [Interjections.] After a few day we telephonically informed our attorney that the complaint had not been successful, because of technical reasons. The DA cannot and will not support this Vote. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairperson, hon Deputy President and hon members, my first task when I joined the Department of Home Affairs in January was to attend a strategy workshop of all the senior managers of the department. The robust but serious interaction between officials and the intelligent programme they structured, on the basis of Government’s medium-term framework, was very impressive.

I want to thank the director-general, Mr Billy Masetla and his team of officials, some of whom are present here today, and the others in our various offices in the country. Well done.

The strategy workshop was designed to further enrich the strategic management approach of the department, so as to provide for an organisation- wide, integrated focus, decision-making, consistency and comprehensive planning. The drive towards service excellence, despite financial and other operational difficultis as mentioned by the Minister, is a centrepiece of the department’s strategic plan. Consequently, this matter continues to receive priority attention, to ensure always that service standards meet the requisite levels.

In keeping with our strategic objectives and in line with Government policy and legislation, a concerted effort has been initiated to develop a full spectrum of consolidated training and career pathing as a means to build human resource capacity in the Department of Home Affairs. Unfortunately, the funds requested for this purpose have not been allocated in the current budget.

However, we are proceeding with the establishment of a training college that, among other things, will be responsible for the constant training and retraining of officials in all aspects of the department’s functions. It is envisaged that this institution will be operational by the end of the current year. We are exploring the possibility of raising some donor funding for the college.

Our transformation programmes informs the training and retraining as well as redeployment for best performance demands relevant to home affairs personnel. There is no gainsay in the fact that home affairs needs to be transformed in such a manner that its functions are properly streamlined to enhance service delivery. The hon the Minister has dealt with some of the thinking in this regard.

We would like to assure the House that the transformation of the department will not lead to job losses. Our personnel retraining, among other things, is structured in such a way that it will equip those due for redeployment, where necessary, with the skills they will need in their new jobs.

The hon the Minister of Home Affairs has delegated me, among other responsibilities, the Government printing works and the Films and Publications Board, which are structures I would like to discuss at this stage with the hon members.

Early this year Cabinet decided to reconstruct the Government printing works and to transform it into a state-owned enterprise. The decision was the culmination of an exhaustive discussion on whether or not printing was a core Government function. This debate was started abroad and has already been concluded in most countries.

We are carefully examining the lessons of those experiences and the subsequent decisions arrived, at to ensure that what we finally do better serve the interests of our country and our people. It should be appreciated that the Government printing works is restricted to providing printing and allied services to Government departments and their statutory bodies. This, by its nature, limits the scope of its printing operation.

Furthermore, the printing works operate on a trade account. It is not funded from the Home Affairs budget, but relies on income generated from its clients within Government.

It is with a sense of great regret that I have to inform the Deputy President and the deputy chairperson that our clients, at best, are very slow in paying for the services that we render to them. At worst, they have failed altogether to pay.

There are, consequently, considerable amounts of money that we have not been able to recoup from our operations. The strain that this has put on us is heavy. We have to pay for the material that we get from suppliers to be able to fulfil our printing obligations.

We want to settle our debts before the Government Printing Works is restructured so that the new state-owned enterprise will not have to carry into its operations old liabilities. We want to appeal, therefore, to all those who still owe us money to settle their accounts speedily.

The new state-owned printing enterprise will have a broader mandate that will enable it to handle commercial printing. All things being equal, the next three months will see the finalisation of the plans to expedite the establishment of the enterprise.

The next phase in this process is the appointment of consultants to plan and implement the commercialisation of the Government Printing Works. This entails drawing up procedures and methods by which the envisaged enterprise will operate meaningfully in the competitive profit oriented environment in which it will find itself.

Though the process may appear cumbersome, cognisance must be taken of the fact that transforming the Government Printing Works is an involved process. There is no room for any margin of error in the planning stage as, once it takes off, there will be no second chance to fall back on.

We have to re-emphasise that no workers are going to lose jobs when the restructuring happens. Staff members who cannot be absorbed into posts that become available where restructuring has occurred will be retrained and redeployed elsewhere in the department. A case in point is when we closed down the printing works in Umtata, in the Eastern Cape. Some of the personnel from that facility were redeployed to various Home Affairs offices while the rest took up posts with the national Government Printing Works.

Also due for closure are the printing works in Thohoyandou, in Giyani, in the Northern Province. In provinces where we have a closed down printing works, we will open stationery depots, as we have already done in Bisho in the Eastern Cape. The Northern Province depots will be established in Pietersburg and Lebowakgomo.

It is clear to us that there are many, among the hon members of this House, who want to help the department to complete successfully its programme of transformation and render to the people a service that will be truly informed by our ``people first’’ principle, Batho Pele.

This is the only conclusion we can arrive at, given the report of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs, after visits by members of the committee to the points of entry into our country and the offices of the department. The chairperson, hon Aubrey Mokoena, reiterated the issue here today. The portfolio committee came into the matter constructively.

It was not the intention of the committee members to go out there and find faults but to do a proper assessment of the situation in order to help us to identify weaknesses and, together, find ways and means to attack the problem. We want to thank the hon Mokoena and his committee. [Applause.]

While it will always be his task to keep a watching brief over us, his decision to work with us to improve our service will go a long way on our march to a better future for our country and our people. Of course, there will always be some of us who will come before this House, as the hon Grobler has done, to throw before us a litany of complaints. [Interjections.]

The Films and Publications Board is a statutory body established by the Films and Publications Act of 1996. It is one of the functions that the Minister has delegated to me. It replaced the old Directorate of Publications. I want to reiterate what the hon Minister and my predecessor, the hon Lindiwe Sisulu, have been saying since 1996 that, the Films and Publications Board, unlike the Directorate of Publications, is not a censorship body.

Its tasks are to classify film material, including the interactive media distributed which are in South Africa; classify publications in response to complaints from the public; provide the public with consumer information so that they can choose what to view or read; balance competing constitutional rights and freedoms in so far as films and publications are concerned; protect children from harmful and exploitative material; and monitor and regulate, via its executive committee, the conduct of the business of adult premises or the so-called sex shops.

The board has processed a total of 3 149 applications since the past year. These included a 2 201 applications for the classification of films for general release, 392 films under the category of adult films and 68 interactive computer games. In addition, the board has processed 29 applications for exemption, and 459 registrations for distributors or exhibitors. The board has also examined and provided opinions on a number of videos and computer disks submitted by police who investigate child pornography offences.

The board shares responsibility for the business of adult premises, the so- called adult or sex shops, with local licensing authorities. Adult premises are licensed by local authorities in terms of the Business Act 1991 and are registered with the board in terms of the Films and Publications Act 1996. In order to avoid confusion and conflicts between the two authorities, with regard to the conditions under which such businesses should be allowed to operate, the board has held several meetings with local authorities and has gazetted regulations which define the general terms and conditions which should apply to all such businesses while allowing for variations at the discretion of local authorities.

From what I have said, in terms of the functions of the board, I want to pick up the question of the protection of children from harmful and exploitative material. All adult South Africans, including the MPs, have a responsibility to protect this country’s children from abuse through sexual exploitation.

It is, of course, not my intention to deal with the whole spectrum of the sexual abuse of children. For purposes of my input, I want to deal with child pornography. This is not a new phenomenon and, until recently, was dealt with fairly effectively by our law enforcement authorities. What is new is the ease of production and distribution and the anonymous cover the Internet provides these days.

There may be those, especially within the Internet industry, who may argue that any regulation of the Internet would be a violation of the constitutional guararantees on freedom of expression.

The truth is that all over the world there are restrictions on the production and possession of child pornography. For instance, the supreme court of the United States has ruled that child pornography is not a core value protected by the first amendment. The Canadian supreme court took a similar stance when it ruled that it is not unconstitutional to restrict the production and dissemination of child pornographic material.

In the United Kingdom, possession of child pornography is an offence. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child requires signatory states to take all measures necessary to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation. The treaty on cyber crime of the Council of Europe also criminalises the possession of child pornography. There are many more examples I could quote, but I think these suffice.

I do not know hon members’ level of understanding of what child pornography is about. As the political head responsible for the enforcement of the Films and Publications Act, I have had to examine some samples to familiarise myself with the nature of the problem. What I saw was so revolting and disturbing that I am convinced the time has come for us to deploy adequate resources, both human and material, to stamp out this scourge. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Child pornography is not an issue of morality, but rather of child torture and abuse. I would like to acquaint hon members with an article which appeared in the 19 March issue of Newsweek on Italian priest, Father Fortunato di Noto. This is what the article says:

Four years and thousands of web searches later, Father Di Noto and three colleagues have uncovered evidence of mind-numbing atrocities, including photos of child rape involving children as young as toddlers and infants.

The fact is, thousands of children around the world have been brutally abused to create these images, and demand for the pictures is burgeoning, fuelled by the Internet. That, in turn, encourages more abuse.

The effects on children of child pornography, according to the report in 1986 of the United State’s attorney-general’s commission, include depression, suicidal thoughts, feelings of shame, guilt, alienation from family and friends, massive acute anxiety and often physical harm.

In May last year we arranged a workshop to which we invited law enforcement officers involved in the investigation and prosecution of child pornography offenders. The main aim was to discuss measures to beef up the Films and Publications Act. Judges, magistrates, prosecutors and police officers were among the invited participants. Also in attendance were representatives of some of the NGOs involved in child protection programmes, as well as some experts from both the UK and the US.

The workshop identified the Internet as the medium of choice for poedophilia. It was resolved that amendments be effected to the Films and Publications Act to promote the efficient investigation and prosecution of child pornography offenders. A set of the proposed changes is currently under consideration by the hon the Minister of Home Affairs.

Classification by the Films and Publications Board is in the public interest, and it is essential therefore that not only our classification decisions are made public, but also that the public understands the purpose and significance of such classification. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe woMnyango wezaseKhaya - Ndabezitha! malungu ahloniphekileyo, kusukela onyakeni wenqubo yentando yeningi, isabelo salo Mnyango saya ngokuncipha saze saba ngangenso yenyoni. Phezu kobuningi kwalabo abasebenzisa lo Mnyango nokukhuphuka kwezindleko zokubuyisela emazweni okudabuka labo bantu abasuke bengene ngokungemthetho kuleli zwe, isabiwomali asiguqukanga ekubeni yinso yenyoni. Nonyaka-ke asingangayo ngisho nenso yenyoni kodwa singaphansi kwenso yenyoni ngemali eyizigidi ezingu-R649.

Nakube kunjalo, iqembu leNkatha yeNkululeko liyaseseka lesi sabiwomali, hhayi ngobuhle baso kodwa ukuze lo Mnyango uqhubeke nokubhalisa izingane ezizalwayo, ukukhoselisa izimbacu ezihlukunyezwa yimibuso yamazwe akubo, ukwesula labo abasuke sebefile, futhi uqhubeke nokwenza okunye nokunye njengokubonelela kweso elibukhali likaNgqongqoshe nomqondisi-jikelele walo Mnyango.

Siyabakhuthaza abaphathiswe lo Mnyango ezingeni lezifundazwe futhi siyabakhuthaza abaqaphe emingceleni. Siyabakhuthaza abaqhuba umsebenzi emahhovisi ayingcosana akhona ezweni, angenayo nemishini yamakhompyutha, ukuba baqhubeke nokusebenza ngokuzikhandla bebeka phambili izidingo zabantu bakubo kunenhlalakahle yabo.

Izwe lakithi linawo wonke umnotho ongenelisa izidingo zethu thina bantu balo. Licebile ngezimbiwa, licebile ngohlaza phezu komhlabathi, licebile ngemfuyo yasemanzini futhi licebile nangamathalente olwazi ebantwini balo. ImiNyango kaHulumeni kufanele icebe, yabelwe kahle izimali, ikhuluphale futhi itshakadule ngenjabulo nxa yenza imisebenzi yayo. Lo Mnyango, ongowaseKhaya, awunjalo. Kanti udla kuliphi idlelo wona wodwa eliwugwadule kangaka? Wazaca kangaka lo Mnyango? Wasindwa yikhanda, wamhlathi uxhaphela amakati, ngabe uncishweni wona wodwa uMnyango wezaseKhaya? Bathi abanye benyathela ngogxisha, wona wazingalo zephela, kwenzenjani kuwo le engaka?

UMnyango wezaseKhaya wanqulu zingaphandle, wambambo ziyabalwa, ngabe sigcwagcwa sini leso onaso? Wabe usacele sandisomali wathola impendulo ethi siyaxolisa. Kwenzenjani eMnyangweni wezaseKhaya? Waba ngqongqoze uNgqongqoshe wawo kwafana nokuphanda amanzi edwaleni? Wabathe ukhala ezimathonsi umqondisi-jikelele kwafana nokuluthosha utalagu? Wabathe uyagadla uNtate Mokoena wekomidi lobungqongqoshe kwafana nokuthela amanzi emhlane wedada? Kwenzenjani eMnyangweni wezaseKhaya?

Wo, hhiya! Mawuthembele enkosini, yona ibathanda bonke abayo. Kodwa-ke ngeke kwedlule kulesi sizukulwane lingakazihlonzi leli tulo.

UMnyango wezaseKhaya unesigatshana esilukhuni kabi sokubuyisela emazweni okudabuka labo abathutheleka ngokungemthetho ezweni lakithi. Abaziwa ukuthi bangaki ngikhuluma nje. Awaziwa amazwe abaqhamuka kuwo ukuthi aqhele kangakanani. Awaziwa namakamu amaphoyisa lapho begcine khona njengoba ngikhuluma nje? Malini-ke konje engabelwa ukubhekana naso leso sigatshana soMthetho? Luhlelo lolu oluyogcina seluqhubeka ngokwethemba iso lokubonelela elibukhali likaNgqongqoshe, umqondisi-jikelele wakhe nezikhulu zonke zalo Mnyango.

Sawubongela lo Mnyango ngokulungiselela ukhetho luka-1999 ngokucophelela okungakaya. Siyawubongela nakulo nyaka ngokulungiselela ukhetho luka-2000 loHulumeni baseKhaya ngobuciko obunjeyaya. Siyawukhuthaza nanamuhla ukuba uqale manje ukulungiselela ukhetho luka-2004 ngokunika bonke abantu baseNingizimu Afrika amapasi e-Hanis obuzwe.

Uma lolo hlelo lwe-Hanis seluphumelele, siyoshayela phezulu thina bantu baseMzansi Afrika, siziqhenye futhi siziqhayise ngokuba ngelinye izwe emazweni omhlaba ayingcosana anomshini walolu hlobo. Umhlaba, awuyikusibona ngaleso sikhathi ukuthi sabe siphila ngenso yenyoni. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Prince N E ZULU: Madam Speaker, his excellency, the hon the Minister of Home Affairs, hon members, since the inception of democracy in this country, the budget for this department has been growing smaller. Regardless of the increasing number of people who use the services of this department and the increase in expenses concerning the deporting of illegal immigrants, the budget has always remained small. This year it is worse off than ever. It is R649 million worse than it was.

The IFP nevertheless supports this budget. It does not support it because it is a good budget, but for the fact that the budget will enable the Department of Home Affairs to continue registering new-born babies, to accommodate the foreign war victims, to register those who have passed away and also to continue to do important things as seen by the Minister and his director-general.

We encourage provincial ministers, people who work on our borders and employees who work in some offices of this department all over the country who do not even have computers in their offices, to continue with their hard work of putting the people’s needs before their own welfare.

Our country has all the wealth to satisfy all our needs. It is rich in mineral resources, crops, water animals, knowledge and the talents of its people. Government departments should be given enough money. They should not scrape by when they are performing their duties. Instead they should be rich and perform their duties with satisfaction. But this is not the case with the Department of Home Affairs. What pasture does it graze, that is so dry? Why is this department so thin? It is so thin that only its head is visible. Its flesh has dried up and only bones are visible now. Why is only the Department of Home Affairs not funded. While other departments have big legs, the Department of Home Affairs have arms as small as that of a cockroach. What is going on here?

The Department of Home Affairs has protruding hips and it is so thin that even its ribs can be counted. Why it is so unlikable? Every time it asks for money, the reply is “sorry”. What is going on with this department? Why is the knocking for help by the Minister of this department like trying to dig for water in rock? Why is the crying for help of the director- general of this department like chasing a mirage? Why are the attempts of the hon Ntate Mokoena of the portfolio committee like running water off a duck’s back? What is going on with this department? Ho! Nonetheless it should trust God because He helps everyone. However, this generation will not pass on before we see the results of this situation.

One of the requirements of the Department of Home Affairs is that it has the duty to deport illegal immigrants. We do not know how many they are at the moment. We do not know how far away the countries are that they come from. No one knows where the police camps are in which they are kept at the moment. How much should be budgeted so as to implement this clause? This project will continue only because of the sharp and considerate eye of the hon the Minister of Home Affairs, his directory-general and other officials in this department.

We congratulate this department on the good preparation it made for the 1999 elections. We also congratulate it on the adroit preparation it made for the local government elections held in 2000. We encourage it to start preparing for the 2004 elections by issuing bar-coded IDs to all people.

When the bar-coded system succeeds, we South Africans will walk tall. We will be proud of being one of the few countries that have this type of electronic system. The world will not realise that the department was financially cramped when it implemented this system. [Applause.]]

Mr M R SIKAKANE: Mr Chairperson, Deputy President and Minister, I think everybody has heard what is required from this Budget Vote, so I am going to deal with some specifics as to why the situation is what it is.

I am happy Mr Grobler is here, seated there with Mr McIntosh, who is of the DP. He once represented us in Claremont. He was a representative of the Claremont township, staying in Pinetown. Those were the situations in the past. [Laughter.] This is a good job that the hon member did.

I am going to talk for the ANC, as an agent of change. We all need birth certificates. We all need IDs, we all need to register our births, and we all need death certificates to remove our names from the population register. Perhaps the DP does not need that because, after all, they do come back as ghosts. Because of the injustices of the past, when they get to heaven they find that they cannot get in. They can come back here and still ask for their names to be removed, as ghosts, because of their past.

This is one area in which the DP and its allies could not discriminate effectively, as the taste of death knew no colour. Do members still remember the colour bar?

Do they still remember separate counters, separate doors and separate queues at the Home Affairs? Do they still remember preferential treatment in all walks of life, in our country?

We have changed that, but it has created big problems of overcrowding. So we emphasise that all what has been said by Mr Grobler was caused by the DP and the New NP. We need only one thing in this department, money.

I am happy that the Deputy President is here. I think a certain approach is going to be developed as to the funding of this department, because this is the face of the nation. The DP is not stupid. It is selfishly demanding what is theirs. When they say ``fight back’’, they believe that they can still get apartheid.

They thrived in apartheid. They are what they are and are where they are because of apartheid.

Home Affairs needs money to level the playing field. Perhaps, none of us understood what their message ``fight back’’ meant. One fights back to regain what one lost and which one feels is legitimately theirs. From now on comrades must please understand why the DP has voted against all the progressive laws that have been made in this country. We have had the Rahman vs Lewis match in the recent past. Lewis is presently fighting back to regain his title. They are fighting back to regain what they owned - apartheid. [Laughter.]

The ANC, led by the illustrious President Mbeki who is the President of the ANC and thus President of the country, has in no time changed the whole of Africa in such a way that Africa is now focused. Home Affairs is the symbol and catalyst of this country because it is the entry and departure point. We request money for this department from the Deputy President so that when one comes into this country and when one goes away one should just have money to build the infrastructure that is needed. That is all that is needed by this department because of the problems caused by the people on my left.

There is no president in this continent who has been able to achieve what is seen as unachievable. It was his wisdom, the only wisdom which could come from a walking being, which said that pharmaceutical companies should reduce the price of those medicines and that otherwise we were going to go offshore. We have the right to buy where they are cheaper. The pundits on my left said in this House that that can never happen. They further said that the pharmaceutical companies have their rights as if they were for ``Europeans Only’’.

Hon members will remember that, in this country, we used to have seats and toilets in Durban that were written ``Europeans Only’’. Those were exclusively theirs. Now, we are in this situation where Home Affairs have to rectify all that mess which was caused by those members like Mr McIntosh. He said that he represented me. Well, why could I not represent myself? [Laughter.] He has never stayed in Clermont. He has never been black. How could he represent me? [Laughter.]

In two years’ time, the President has been acknowledged by the prestigious heads of state as the most intelligent man in the continent. Therefore, comrades should realise that it is no wonder that the onslaught is showing its ugly head again. It is the aim of the ANC, through its President, to awaken Africa. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms M M MAUNYE: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Minister, hon members and comrades, the only department in this country which cares for one from the first day that one came to this world until the last second in this world is the Department of Home Affairs. No other department does what we do.

The Government and the country in general are facing budgetary constraints that affect every department. Critical choices had to be made between improving living standards of our people and other equally important needs

• such is the mess that the ANC Government inherited from the apartheid government.

Before I can go any further, I want to congratulate Comrade Charles Nqakula on his appointment as Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. I wish him well in his new portfolio. [Applause.]

The issue of transformation is of critical importance. The decentralisation of the resources of the department is critical to transformation. The redistribution of resources amongst all citizens of our country is essential.

Fa mmuso wa kgethololo o fedisa District Six, kantoro e ne le yona ya tshwanelwa ke go tswalwa. E ne ya tloswa mo e neng e le teng, mme ya isiwa gaufinyana le boemelafofane.

Kantoro e, e ne e thusa batho ba Nyanga, Langa le Mitchells Plain. Re tshwanelwa ke go gopola gore batho ba le bantsi ga ba sa tlhole ba dira, ba tswile mo ditirong tsa bona. Re itse rotlhe gore ke ka ntlha ya ikonomi. Ba tshwanelwa ke go dirisa dipalangwa go tloga kwa ba nnang teng go ya kwa kantoro e leng teng. Ga ke tlhaloganye gore fa e ya gaufi le boemelafofane, e dirisiwa ke bomang gonne ga go bonolo gore batho ba fitlhe koo.

Pelaelo e nngwe ke ya Johannesburg, kwa Gauteng kwa ke nnang teng. Go na le dikantoro tse pedi tse di mabapi, tse ke dumelang gore le motlotlegi Tona le ena o a tlhaloganya gore e nngwe e mo mmileng wa Market, e ka nako ele ya kgethololo e neng e dirisiwa thata ke bathobantsho. E nngwe e mo mmileng wa Harrison. Di gaufi bobedi ba tsona. Jaanong re itirela boikuelo mo go motlotlegi Tona gore nngwe ya tsona e tswalwe gonne go na le botlhoki bo le bontsi thata mo bathong ba gaabo rona. E ka tswalwa mme ya isiwa kwa go boOrange Farm kwa go senang kantoro teng. E ka tswalwa mme go tsewe le didirisiwa tsa yona jaaka dikhomputara, mmogo le badiri ba yona gore go se batliwe batho ba bašwa.

Motswana wa ga lowe o kile a bua a re, mangana sika loo-phage. Komiti e etetse kwa Mpumalanga, kwa go bidiwang Mbuzini. Fa re fitlha kwa teng re fitlhetse mathata a le mantsi. Morafe wa baaMahlasela o kgaogantswe dikarolo di le tharo ka dinako tsele tsa maburu. Karolwana ya ntlha ya baa Mahlasela e kwa Swaziland, nngwe kwa Mozambique, fa ya boraro e setse le kgosi ya yona mo Aforika Borwa.

Bana ba morafe o ba tsena sekolo mo Aforika Borwa. Ba tshela molelwane mo mosong le maitsiboa fa ba boela magaeng. Bagolo ba bona ba amogela diphenšene tsa bona mo Aforika Borwa, e bile ba tshwere le makwaloitshupo a mo Aforika Borwa. Le kwa Mafikeng Barolong ba ga Kgosi Montshiwa kwa Makgobistad le bona ba na le bothata jo bo tshwanang le ba kwa Mpumalanga. Batho ba bangwe ba setse mo Aforika Borwa le kgosi, fa ba bangwe ba le kwa Botswana. Re utlwa go twe le kgosi ya bona e kile ya tshwarwa, ya isiwa kgolegelong ka ntlha ya go tlola legora.

Jaanong re itirela boikuelo mo go motlotlegi Tona gore go nne le tirisanommogo mo dinageng tse re buileng ka ga tsona, gore mathata a a ntseng jalo a thibelwe gonne batho ba gaabo rona ga ba ya kwa teng ka go rata, mme ba isitswe ke mabaka a mmuso ole wa tlhaolele.

Komiti e ntse e rera go tsaya loeto go kopana le mebuso e e leng maloko a SADC, go lemosana gore re ka dirisana jang le bona go tila mathata a a tlhagelang re le mo kgaolong ya Borwa jwa Aforika. Batho ba tloga kwa go boMozambique ba tla ka kwano ba se na makwalo a a tshwanetseng; bangwe ba tloga mono ba ya ka kwa, mme ba baka fela mathata. Re itemogela mathata a batho ba ba tlang mo nageng e ya rona ba rekisa diritibatsi.

Motlatsa Tona o buile ka kgang ya bana ba ba dirisiwang ka tsela e e sa siamang. Re na le bothata jwa bana ba ba nyamelang mme go sa itsewe gore ba ya kae. [Nako e fedile.] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.) [When the apartheid government did away with District Six, the office had to be closed too. It was moved from its original venue to a new location next to the airport.

This office was valuable to the people of Nyanga, Langa and Mitchells Plain. We have to bear in mind that many people have lost their jobs because of socioeconomic problems. They have to make use of public transport to access the office. I do not understand why the office had to move next to the airport because the place is not easily accessible for people.

Another concern is about Johannesburg in the Gauteng province. There are two offices which, I believe the hon the Minister knows, are close to each other. The first one is in Market Street, which was used mainly by black people during the apartheid regime. The other one is in Harrison Street. These two offices are close to each other. We therefore appeal to the hon the Minister that one of them be closed as there is poverty among our people. It can relocate to a place like Orange Farm where there are no offices. Its equipment, such as computers, together with staff members could be taken to the new venue to avoid having to recruit new people. There is an old saying that goes ``birds of a feather flock together’’. The committee visited a place called Mbuzini in Mpumalanga where we encountered a lot of problems. The Mahlasela tribe had been divided into three groups during the apartheid regime. The first group is in Swaziland, the second group is in Mozambique and the third group remained in South Africa with its chief.

Children of this tribe attend school in South Africa. They have to cross the border every morning and evening. Their parents get their pension grants in South Africa and also have South African identity documents. The Barolong of Chief Montshiwa in Makgobistad in Mafikeng also have the same problem as that encountered in Mpumalanga. One group is in South Africa with its chief and the other group is in Botswana. There are rumours that their chief was once arrested for tresspassing.

We appeal to the hon the Minister to ensure that there is peace and stability in the abovementioned countries because our people did not choose to go there but were forced there by the apartheid regime.

The committee wants to meet with members of SADC to devise strategies that will help eliminate the problems which are currently being experienced by the countries in Southern Africa. People come into South Africa from places like Mozambique whilst others leave South Africa and go to other places without the relevant documents. We experience the problem of illegal immigrants who come into our country selling drugs.

The Deputy Minister mentioned the problem of child abuse. Children vanish without a trace. [Time expired.]]

Mr F BEUKMAN: Chairperson, Deputy President, Mr Minister, it is indeed a privilege to take part in the Budget Vote debate this afternoon. Minister Buthelezi is a person that has played a vital role in the transformation of South Africa and the establishment of a new democratic state. Together with former Presidents F W de Klerk and Nelson Mandela he was instrumental in laying the foundation for a peaceful transition. The mere fact that we can debate in this Chamber the performance of the Government in a peaceful environment is a tribute to these three founding fathers of the new South Africa.

We should evaluate the budget allocation to the department in terms of the allocation to the respective programmes, the actual output by the department and the assessment by the portfolio committee at in loco inspections. What did the portfolio committee establish from officials during the in loco inspections that took place on 27 March, 2 and 3 April? The answer is: A lack of money to pay overtime; a need for an independent immigration service; problems with the Central Appeals Committee on Immigration; reluctance to turn appeals down; same staff levels in the Western Cape as there were in Cape Town since 1995; lack of support from the Department of Public Works at Beitbridge; lack of computers and outdated software in the Northern Province; shortage of staff at Beitbrigde; no toilets and running water at Bray; no proper accommodation at Mokopane; lack of support from head office regarding repairs at Ramatlabama and an info system that is not connected to the head office mainframe in the North West province.

Hierdie voorbeelde is slegs enkele uittreksels van mondelinge insette van amptenare wat deur lede van die portefeuljekomitee aangehoor is. Een van die mees kommerwekkende aspekte van die departement se begroting is die gebrek aan geld vir die opgradering van die departement se inligtingstegnologiefunksies. Dienslewering aan die publiek word erg gekortwiek wanneer kantore se rekenaars nie aan die departement se hoofraamrekenaar gekoppel is nie of selfs oor geen rekenaars beskik nie.

‘n Bedrag van R9,78 miljoen is in die huidige begroting aangevra vir die IT- rekenaarkoppeling van die dienspunte van plattelandse en nie-plattelandse gebiede aan die departement se hoofrekenaar. Hierdie bedrag is nie toegestaan nie. Dit reduseer die aanstelling van President Thabo Mbeki se internasionale IT-adviesraad en die verbintenis tot ‘n IT-gedrewe regeringsdiens tot hersenskimme. Dit beteken dat die Havisprojek nie behoorlik in werking gestel kan word nie.

Een van die kritiese vereistes vir die integriteit van Suid-Afrikaanse burgerskap is die handhawing van ‘n behoorlike migrasiekontrolestelsel. Die Minister rapporteer dat die departement nie die vereiste R20 miljoen ontvang het om die huidige stelsel op te gradeer nie. Dit blyk duidelik dat die toedelings aan die departement se programme nie behoorlik oorweeg en deurdink is nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [These examples are only a few exerpts from verbal contributions that were heard by the members of the portfolio committee. One of the most alarming aspects of the department’s budget is the lack of money for upgrading the department’s information technology functions. Rendering of services to the public is seriously hampered when the computers in offices are not linked to the department’s mainframe computer or where there are no computers at all.

An amount of R9,78 million has been requested in the present budget for the IT linking of service points of rural and nonrural areas to the department’s main computer. This amount was not granted. This reduces the appointment of President Thabo Mbeki’s international IT advisory board and the commitment to an IT-driven Government service to mere mirages. This means that the Hanis project cannot be implemented properly.

One of the critical requirements for the integrity of South African citizenship is maintaining a proper migration control system. The Minister reported that the department did not receive the required R20 million to upgrade the present system. It is clear that allocations to the department’s programmes were not properly weighed up and considered.]

As the responsible accounting authorities, state Expenditure, the treasury and the Director-General of Home Affairs should explain to Parliament why this state of affairs has been allowed to continue. The ANC members of the Cabinet’s treasury committee are paying lip service to the principle of adequate and equitable funding. The department, according to the Minister and the director-general, is underfunded and underresourced. The President and the Deputy President - and it is good that he is present here this afternoon - should personally ensure that the Department of Home Affairs is able to fulfill its statutory duty.

The Constitution provides, in section 214(2)(j), with regard to equitable share and allocation of revenue, that the following factor should be taken into consideration. It says, and I quote:

The need for flexibility in responding to emergencies or other temporary needs, and other factors based on similar objective criteria. We believe that the department qualifies as a case of emergency. The DA can, therefore, from a financial and constitutional perspective, not support the Budget Vote with the present levels of funding. We would be failing in our duty to the officials of the department and the citizens of South Africa if we supported the financial allocation from Minister Manuel to Home Affairs.

One of the challenges facing our country, and indeed our continent, is migration and refugee management. Patterns of migration have become much more complex due to globalisation. The DA believes that we have to develop a new framework to deal with migration. We have to look beyond the present framework of ideas that is presented in the second draft Bill on migration. People are also leaving South Africa due to restricting measures with regard to investment and exchange control. As a specialised field, migration management should be managed by specialists.

The present short-term approach of hire a Cuban doctor'',hire a Cuban nurse’’ or ``hire a Cuban at all costs’’ by certain Government departments is not the answer nor the solution. That is why we are in desperate need of a new approach to managing our immigration affairs. Weekend news reports indicated that President Thabo Mbeki personally briefed chief state law adviser, Ingrid Daniels about what the Cabinet wanted in the new immigration Bill. Some press reports indicate that ANC Ministers are seen as reluctant to assign control over sensitive legislation to the IFP leader.

We believe that ideological battles should not overshadow the need for rapid progress on the information Bill. A good example is that of the 27- year-old IT specialist, Mark Shuttleworth, who sold his internet security business for 575 million dollars to VeriSign. In an interview in this Sunday’s Business Times, he indicated that rigid foreign exchange control laws forced him to emigrate. He had no intention of leaving South Africa. He left within weeks of the SA Reserve Bank turning down his request to diversify his investment by moving some funds offshore.

We need a complete rethinking on the measures that are restricting talented South Africans. The DA believes that the following approach could contribute to breaking the current logjam on migration. Firstly, we should establish an independent and autonomous immigration service with administrative responsibilities in conjunction with other Government agencies on the management of the immigration board. Secondly, the immigration board would include representatives from the private sector, organised labour and civil society. Thirdly, the immigration board should launch an intensive campaign to attract skills to South Africa and encourage South Africans to stay and build rather than leave. We should establish an immigration service training school, based on the principle of training of the diplomatic corps to train the employees of the service. A special unit should be established in the immigration service to handle applications by foreign investors.

We believe that the introduction of a point-system skills-and-knowledge- based immigration policy to encourage entrepreneurs, innovation and investment in South Africa is important. We also believe that a special class of permanent or temporary visas for individuals with exceptional skills or extraordinary qualifications should be introduced.

In conclusion, no Government department could fulfil its task without competent and qualified staff. Leadership by the responsible accounting officer is essential for success. The Public Service Commission report on the department indicates that the department’s performance is below standard as measured against its own Public Service standards.

Ons neem kennis van die regstellende aksie wat sedert hierdie verslag geneem is om die saak reg te stel. Dit is egter ook van belang dat die President die verantwoordelike Minister die geleentheid gee om die nodige veranderinge aan die topbestuur en leierskap van die departement aan te bring om dienslewering te verbeter.

Die DA wil graag sy dank oordra aan die duisende hardwerkende amptenare van die departement wat, ondanks groot tekorte, ‘n las dra. Die Regering se versuim om die departement behoorlik te finansier sal ‘n struikelblok bly om burgerlike dienste behoorlik aan alle mense te bied en ekonomiese groei te verbeter. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We take note of the affirmative action that has taken place since this report in order to rectify the matter. It is, however, also important that the President should afford the responsible Minister the opportunity to make the necessary changes to the top management and leadership of the department to improve the rendering of services.

The DA would like to convey its appreciation to the thousands of hardworking officials of the department who, irrespective of vast shortcomings, carry a burden. The Government’s failure to finance the department properly will remain an obstacle to the proper rendering of civil services to all people and to improving economic growth. [Applause.]]

Mr W M SKHOSANA: Chairperson, Minister of Home Affairs, Deputy Minister and hon members, as we are moving into the 21st century, we need to understand where we are coming from.

The Department of Home Affairs was used as a key by the apartheid government from 1910 up to the 1990s. Apartheid laws were crafted and implemented in this department, ie laws pertaining to the population register, birth register, marriage certificates and influx control. From 1910 to 1919 Louis Botha was the Head of state and the Minister of Native Affairs. From 1919 to 1924, J C Smuts was the Head of State and the Minister of Home Affairs. D F Malan was the Head of State and at the same time he was the Minister of Home Affairs from 1924 to 1933. P W Botha was a Head of State. Before he became a Head of State, he was Deputy Minister of Home Affairs from 1958 to 1961. Minister Viljoen was the Head of State and at some time in his political career, he was also in the Home Affairs department.

It is evident enough that apartheid laws were born in this very same department. Therefore, it is important for us to look into this department with a critical eye. [Applause.] Home Affairs was seen as an area of investment for future heads of State by the apartheid regime. It has invested enough in this. We therefore need total transformation in this department.

Home Affairs touches the lives of all of us, rich, poor, married, unmarried, employed and unemployed. I would like to remind hon members of the NP on my left of the mandate they received during the memorandum in 1990, which wanted a yes'' or ano’’ vote.

Mr I J PRETORIUS: 1992!

Mr M W SKHOSANA: Yes, 1992, thank you. Their mandate was very clear. It was yes for transformation, yes for democracy, yes for a nonracial and nonsexist South Africa. But because they did not understand this mandate, they withdrew from the Government of National Unity. They were getting confused. As a result, the head collapsed. De Klerk resigned. As they were now moving without a head, they fell into the hands of the Nazis of Africa, the DP. They then formed the ``Deurmekaar Alliance’’, which is now in tatters. [Applause.]

Those who understood the mandate joined the ANC. A clear evidence is that of Dr Schoeman and Mr Oosthuizen, who have joined the ANC. There they are. [Applause.]

South Africa was therefore born and they were defied. The youth of this country need to be educated on the importance of getting identity documents. The need to register and vote in the new South Africa, which is the right of every citizen. Therefore it is very clear that we are part of the global economy and world.

The mammoth task which faces the Department of Home Affairs is Hanis a dynamic programme that will culminate in the introduction of state-of-the- art technology with regard to secret civic provision in South Africa, completed with associated advanced technology such as the auto fingerprint identification system and smart card. Hanis will undoubtedly place South Africa in the world-class map with regard to civic service management.

The Visa control system has already been implemented in more than 50 missions abroad. Some of the missions are already utilising internal communication systems, such as the Internet communication system. I, therefore, would like to thank the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the department for a job well done. We, therefore, as the ANC would like to support this Vote. [Applause.]

Ms A VAN WYK: Hon Chairperson and hon Minister, a year ago the UDM opposed the Budget Vote on Home Affairs. We indicated then that we believed that the budget for this department was completely insufficient and that the department would fail in providing the basic services. This has now been proven by the Batho Pele report on service delivery.

One year later, the situation is worse than ever. Realising the desperate situation, the portfolio committee invited the Minister of Finance to appear before the committee to explain the completely inadequate budget of the department. nfortunately, this meeting could not take place before today’s debate, and makes academic exercises of both the debate and the budget process.

This illustrates the little to no influence Parliament has on influencing budget allocation and determining Government priorities - yet another example, the umpteenth one in the past few months, of how Parliament is incapacitated in fulfilling its duty of oversight over the executive. Parliament has sadly lost the initiative.

The ruling party, its members highly upset in the committee over the inadequate budget, will today again allow themselves to rubber-stamp an executive decision, even though they do not agree with that decision. [Interjections.] The worst part of it all is that they do not even care that the press or the opposition parties were there when they voiced their unhappiness vocally in public. Today they will stand here, before all to witness and support this budget. The Minister made a passionate plea to the committee on the inadequate budget. Yet, his own party will today again talk against the budget, but in the end vote for it. I plead with the Minister and hon members of the committee to see that it is not too late to change their minds, to take a principled decision and vote against this budget. Every person and party who supports this budget is not only selling out every official in the department, but becoming co-architects in the demise of the department and the vital source of the strategic information on which Government bases its own planning. [Interjections.]

Fact: the Department of Home Affairs operates with a staff shortage of 19,2% of a component determined on a needs basis of six years ago. Fact: Because of a lack of resources, not much is being done in respect of illegal immigration. Fact: The highly publicised 1 April 2001 implementation of the Refugees Act is doomed to failure. R11,2 million is needed to implement the refugee reception offices, and a meagre R1,3 million is available.

Fact: The population register legacy of the apartheid government makes provision for a mere 10 million people and cannot accommodate the estimated South African population of 40 million. Fact: The movement control system used by various other state departments, such as security agencies, the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and Statistics South Africa, designed for a period of five years and implemented in 1998, will soon collapse. This system can no longer be updated; it requires a rewrite.

Hon members may say, ``So what?’’ The fact is that without this system in place and effectively working, South Africa will become a free-for-all. We will be unable to monitor who is entering our country, whether they should be here whether they or not appear on Interpol’s wanted list. South Africa can become the criminal safe haven for those fleeing their own countries.

The Department of Home Affairs is funded for failure. It is being systematically starved to death. Not a single government department will fulfil their service delivery responsibilities if this department’s R100 million shortfall is not provided to it. The UDM cannot support a Vote that will result in the collapse of a department that forms the administrative backbone of many other departments and the county as a whole. [Applause.] Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, hon members, Home Affairs is a department that serves people from the first day of their lives to the last. People need documents when they are born and getting married. They also need documents for identification, passports when they go beyond the boundries of our country and the death certificate for verification of that death. All these documents are a responsibility of the Department of Home Affairs. The department has to produce all these documents with limited financial and human resources.

The department has set itself a period of two months within which to issue an individual’s identity document for the first time. A reissue, in my opinion, should take much shorter when one takes into account that the information has already been captured and that there is technology at hand.

A standard set in 1998 should have been improved by now. The report of the Public Service Commision on the department paints a pathetic picture regarding what is going on in regions. Absenteeism is rife, sick and unauthorised leave amount to 4,8% of available man-days, as evidenced in 1998-99. On average, it costs the taxpayer R10 million to pay people who have stayed away from work. This is unacceptable.

The analysis indicates that officers in the department in the Western Cape tend to take ill more than those in the other provinces. Here are the statistics as released by the PAC: On average, in the Western Cape people take 12,1 days sick leave, Eastern Cape 11,5, Gauteng 10,5, whereas in the Nortrhern Province it is 5,9.

Listening to the Minister and the director-general during their respective briefings to the portfolio committee sounded like sitting at the knees of Jeremiah of old, who lamented the deplorable conditions in Israel. The department is not allocated funds that behove it. Underfunding the department impacts negatively on its activities, and obviously on its service delivery. Border fences are porous and aliens move in and out at their will. Surely, other role players should be called in to avert the situation.

Government departments should mount the integrated development strategies that the President spoke of at length, during his state-of-the-nation address. Hopefully, the interaction of the heads of the departments, that they had a fortnight ago, will assist in making the border fences secure.

We hope that the immigration Bill that has been so contentious, will be laid before Parliament soon as the Minister has indicated so that the necessary skills may be recruited into the country. It is diconcerting to notice that, according to the annual report of the department, the number of people who renounce their South African citizenship rose in the year 2000 as compared to 1999.

It has to be established why people decide to do so while there are many who go to lengths of obtaining our citizenship in a stealthy manner. Those who applied and were granted South African citizenship in 2000 are fewer compared to 1999. Why are people fleeing South Africa? We note that there is freedom of movement, but get concerned that the process should not end in a brain drain rather than in the brain gain.

The Public Service Commission, in its monitoring function came across some offices in the deep rural areas where there are no safes to keep cash and members of the public have buy postal orders from the post office to pay for the services of department. This implies that the reissue of an ID cost R13 instead of R5 as R8 is the commision of the post office. It is the poorest of the poor who are affected by these issues. We hope that some thought will be given to this so that people who suffer in silence can be helped out. [Time Expired.]

Mr M K LEKGORO: Chairperson, in the past seven years of our democratic dispensation, we have known transformation at different levels of our lives. One of the legacies of apartheid, which our democratic order has to continue to address, is the civic services that we render to our people.

In keeping with apartheid doctrine, civic affairs were dispensed in a way that would undermine the dignity of our people. We had to travel long distances for a simple document like a birth or death certificate. We had to queue for days, at the service of very rude officials, to acquire one document or the other.

With the advent of democracy we have, to a degree, witnessed officials with changed attitudes. We have seen queues running at a satisfactory pace. Where Afrikaans used to be the commanding language, we are now able to express ourselves in the languages of our choice. These are marked improvements that came with our Government’s effort to transform this area of life.

Having acknowledged this I think that it is opportune, in this second term of our democratic order, to raise the following questions. Have these services reached the previously disadvantaged in their local or residential areas? Or are they still forced to pay fares and travel long distances to reach the nearest Home Affairs office?

In his address to the portfolio committee, about two weeks ago, the Minister of Home Affairs said:

Apartheid has left us with a concentration of offices in affluent areas and with vastly inadequate resources where the majority of our people live and where, because of historical backlogs, the need of our services is most intense.

This interpretation of the legacy that apartheid has left behind is very true. However, the point is to change this situation in favour of the previously disadvantaged communities. This, we should be prepared to do even with the meagre funds that the Government gives to the department. As we continue to fight for more, let us direct some of the little that we get in this direction.

It is time that we ask ourselves: Within the very limited allocation from the Treasury, how much do we direct to the previously disadvantaged communities? We should be able to proudly proclaim that at this rural village, people no longer have to travel those long distances to reach a Home Affairs office, because we have allocated the resources to that particular village.'' We should be able to say,in this previously disadvantaged area, we can now receive a birth certificate at source as would be the case with a white dorpie in the countryside.’’

Much as the re-allocation of resources cannot be possible at all instances, the department should examine its desirability wherever it is possible. What good does it do to continue to serve for traditionally white areas to continue being over resourced while the previously disadvantaged and poor communities are burdened with the transport money to reach a Home Affairs office? Surely, noone among us wishes to assert that because Government does not have enough resources or because Treasury is not allocating enough to us, so the previously disadvantaged should stay with no resources and the previously advantaged stay overresourced.

The deputy director-general, responding to a question in the portfolio committee on the possibility of reallocation of resources, indicated that people cling to what they have and are very sensitive when possibilities of their resources being reallocated elsewhere are raised.

Is this the mind-set of what a transforming South Africa needs? I hold the view that our country and people need a different mind-set. We, surely, cannot afford that all affluent areas should hoard resources at the expense of the majority of the citizens.

Let me give an illustration of this situation. I stay in Pretoria, in an affluent area named Centurion. There are three highly-populated townships around Pretoria, Attridgeville, Mamelodi and Soshanguve. It is from these townships where the poor and the unemployed must pay transport to reach Home Affairs offices in town. In contrast, we who live in Centurion, who are well of, where there is at least one car in each house, and who do not even need public transport, do have a Home Affairs office on our door step. Surely, it is not out of line to talk about relocating this resource to a needy area like Soshanguve?

Last week the director-general, in his address to the portfolio committee, indicated that they had applied for about R98 million for office accommodation and infrastructure. Of what they received from this application, no funding has been allocated for the opening of new offices. Obviously, in this situation, again those who will be hard-hit will be in the previously disadvantaged areas. Any opening of new offices will benefit these areas.

We feel that with the little that we were given, we could only reinforce what already exists, important as it might have been. Nothingÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Time expired.]

Mr I J PRETORIUS: Chairperson, I would like to thank three of my colleagues from the ANC, Mr Skhosana, Mr Sikakane, and Mr Lekgoro for their historical review. We are marching back, if we keep on referring to the past. [Interjections.]

Ek wil begin deur te sê dat dit aangenaam is om aan hierdie debat deel te neem, maar die aandag wat die afgelope dag of twee aan ‘n gevangene wat vrygelaat is, gegee is deur die ANC en sy meelopers verstom alle redelike mense. Die lofsange en die prysliedere wat deur die ANC teenoor die gevangene uitgespreek word, laat ‘n mens wonder wat gaan aan met die ANC se oordeel. [Tussenwerpsels.] Wat verder verstommend is, is dat die gevangene nog nie een keer berou getoon het, of verskoning gevra het vir sy ernstige misstappe nie. Volgens ‘n koerantopskrif sal die gewese gevangene, doktor Boesak, vannaand ‘n preek lewer. Ek wil net graag aan almal vanmiddag hier sê dat ek vannaand beslis nie daardie preek sal bywoon nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die onderwerp wat ek graag wil aanraak gaan oor die verskillende funksies wat die department het, en ons weet wat dit almal is. Van die belangrikstes is die uitreiking van identiteitsdokumente en die uitreiking van geboorte-, huwelik- en sterftesertifikate en paspoorte. Die Minister is ook deur middel van die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie verantwoordelik vir die voer van alle verkiesings. Ek wil graag by een baie belangrike aspek stilstaan. Dit gaan oor die bereikbaarheid van die kantore vir alle kiesers sodat hulle dit binne byna loopafstand kan hê.

Ek wil die Minister en die departement gelukwens dat hulle vanjaar aangekondig het dat hulle besig is om met munisipaliteite te onderhandel sodat munisipaliteite op ‘n agentskapbasis dienste kan lewer oor die lengte en die breedte van hierdie land. Dan sal baie van die probleme waaroor klagtes geopper word, opgelos word.

Agb lede weet self dat toe ons verlede jaar ‘n pleidooi daarvoor gelewer het, het dit op dowe ore geval. Plaas dat ons eerder dit doen, want die Minister is baie reg as hy sê:

Municipalities are equally distributed across the territory, and there is no reason why in our country one should not be able to receive both the death certificate, identity document and other civic affair services from municipalities as one can do in most other countries in the world.

‘n Ander baie belangrike aspek is natuurlik die registrasie van kiesers. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I want to start by saying that it is a pleasure to participate in this debate, but the attention paid to a released prisoner by the ANC and its supporters during the past day or so is amazing to all reasonable people. The glorification and praise expressed towards the prisoner by the ANC makes one wonder what is going on with the judgment of the ANC. [Interjections.] What is also amazing is that the prisoner has not once shown regret or apologised for his serious crimes. According to a newspaper headline the former prisoner, Dr Boesak, will be delivering a sermon this evening. I would just like to say to everyone here this afternoon that I will definitely not be attending that sermon this evening. [Interjections.]

The subject that I would like to touch on the various functions of the department, and we know what they all are. Some of the most important are the issuing of identity documents and the issuing of birth, marriage and death certificates and passports. The Minister is also, through the Independent Electoral Commission, responsible for the conducting of all elections. I would like to dwell on one very important aspect. This concerns the accessibility of the offices to all voters, which means that they should be almost within walking distance from them.

I want to congratulate the Minister and the department on having announced this year that they are negotiating with municipalities to enable municipalities to deliver services on an agency basis across the length and breadth of this country. This will solve many of the problems about which there are complaints.

Hon members themselves know that when we called for this last year, there was no positive reaction. We should rather do this, because the Minister is quite right in saying:

Municipalities are equally distributed across the territory, and there is no reason why in our country one should not be able to receive both the death certificate, identity document and other civic affair services from municipalities as one can do in most other countries in the world.

Another very important aspect is of course the registration of voters.] The registration of voters is an important function and should also be performed by the municipalities on an agency basis.

I hope that the department or the Treasury will make more money available. It is a very sensible approach that the Minister has adopted, namely that the department must speak to the municipalities. I hope that the Minister will be successful in convincing them to assist with these services which should be given to the people.

Ek vertrou ook dat die onderhandelinge op sukses sal uitloop, maar ek hoop die Minister sal ook in hierdie debat of later vir ons se wat die uiteindelike resultaat daarvan gaan wees.

Die tweede aspek wat ek graag wil aanraak, is die kwessie van die kieserslys. Die feit dat die kieserslys sonder adresse verskyn, is ‘n probleem vir alle politieke partye asook die feit dat die kiesersdata op so ‘n laat stadium beskikbaar gestel word aan politieke partye. Dit is nie moontlik om mens se werk behoorlik te doen nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [I also trust that the negotiations will be successful, but I hope the Minister will also tell us in this debate or later on what the eventual results of that will be.

The second aspect I would like to touch on is the question of the voters’ roll. The fact that the voters’ roll contains no addresses is a problem for all political parties, as is the fact that the voters’ data is made available at such a late stage to political parties. It is impossible to do one’s work properly. [Applause.]]

Mr M U KALAKO: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members, today we are dealing with one of the important Budget Votes.

I want to start by just briefly responding to what Mrs Van Wyk said here. What she said was completely untrue. She knows very well how the ANC members in the committee were trying very hard to make sure that the department is funded. I am sure her other members, who are African like me, would not really agree with her when she says that they should not support this budget.

This department has work to do and has to render services to people on a daily, even hourly basis. If one comes here and says that this budget should not be supported, one should know the consequences to the majority of people of this country, especially those who are disadvantaged. In this House we have the problem, time and again, of people who really do not want to be reminded of their past. There is no way that we cannot do that. In order to move forward, we must always see and look at what happened in the past, so that we can be able to construct a clear path for our future. [Applause.]

My colleagues mentioned here that this department was constructed in such a way that it had to enhance the policies of oppression and exploitation of our people in this country for decades and centuries. It is no mistake that today - as the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the DG in his presentation to the portfolio committee, mentioned - the problem we are confronted with in this department is the legacy of the past.

It is a department which was not at all meant to serve the majority of the people or the entire population of the country. It is a department which was serving approximately 10 million of the people of the country. It is a department which today is faced with serving about 40 million people. One can just imagine the difficulties and the problems that are going to confront this new Government. It is no wonder that, as the ANC, we support this budget and we are calling for transformation. Indeed, this department needs transformation.

It is a department that is based on and was constructed for other purposes. But we do understand, accept and agree with the director-general and his department that, in order for the department to perform its functions efficiently and adequately, it needs to be funded.

Without repeating and emphasising what some of my colleagues have said here, let me just highlight how important the role of this department is in making sure that this country not only knows how many people die or are born it, but at the same time also contributes to the economic growth of this country.

It is this department that has to make sure that it creates conducive conditions for the investors to come and invest in this country, so as to make sure that their permits, requests and applications are processed in a speedy way and investment can come into this country. And it is this department that, necessarily, has to make it possible for skills and expertise - which we do not have in this country - to come into this country without hindrance. So it is not just a question of looking at the department and saying it just deals with the day-to-day problems that we see.

I must say that when the director-general made his presentation to the committee, I was left with no other impression than the picture that says this department will sooner rather than later collapse if we do not take steps to avoid that. It is a task and a challenge to us. As this portfolio committee, led by the chairperson, we will continue to go to the Treasury, to persuade them that some functions of the department actually be funded.

Added to its task, as the DG explained to us, is the work which was previously done by the SAPS which is now going to be taken over by this department. We know how important the security of this country is. It was easy before the new dispensation and the changes in this country. Nobody knew that the things we are talking about today are taking place in this country, because there was no transparency. We know that this department, as I have said earlier, working hand in hand with the Defence Force of the previous regime, was geared at manning those borders with people who were trained in nothing else but looking for terrorists coming into this country, and watching us when we come into this country. It was a department manned by people who were trained in counterinsurgency, as they termed it at that time. So one can imagine the task that we are faced with in transforming this department.

Added to that, I am sure that Sakkie Pretorius will agree with me when I say, as my colleague Skhosana has done, that the NP and the DP can scream here today - whether it is the DP or NP does not make any difference to me, whether it was a liberal party or whatever which did mini-democratic things, they only knew democracy as something applying to white people only

• but they will agree with us that this country is today confronted with problems that were caused by their practices. [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson and hon members, I really would like to say that the dignity with which the issues were canvassed at this budget discussion today convinced me that we are, indeed, the portfolio committee that has the population of South Africa as its client.

I wish to thank all the hon members who participated in this debate, because each one of them made a very valuable contribution. Lack of time does not allow me to answer all the points raised by the participants in the debate. However, I will take care to provide written answers to each of them in respect of matters which this lack of time will not allow me to address directly here in Parliament.

I would like to thank Mr D A Mokoena, the chairperson of the portfolio committee, who stressed that my department should not become the object of political wrangling and that policy matters affecting it should not become political footballs. I could not agree more, even though I feel that this precept is often not respected, not on my side, but on the side of some of my colleagues in this Parliament.

However, I thank Mr Mokoena for his support in seeking more funding for the department and for the initiative he took on behalf of his committee to interact with the Minister of Finance to increase our budgetary allocation. These are, indeed, groundbreaking efforts in the building of our democracy.

I concur with the concerns that Mr Mokoena expressed about the lack of resources and the corruption affecting some of the functions and, which, of course, certain officials are guilty of. We have a unit on corruption which has in fact been successful in some respects in unearthing some of the corrupt acts by some of our officials, in spite of our limited funding. The concerns of Mr Mokoena are noted and are shared by us. I hope that in working together, in a more congenial atmosphere, we will be able to address them.

I would also like to thank Mr Grobler who dealt with the issue of financial controls on the expenditure of the IEC. This issue is quite serious and needs to be dealt with seriously, without political pointscoring. We must remember that the IEC is a Chapter 9 body and therefore it is accountable to this House, and not to us. We are the department which has the line function for the actions of the IEC. Its very name - the Independent Electoral Commission - says that it is in fact independent.

We try to defend the independence of the IEC, as a guarantee of our democracy. However, I do agree that we will have to find ways and means to establish reliable controls within the IEC which are consistent with its independence.

The report of the Auditor-General is about such controls which, for example, enables us today to discuss the issue and hold the IEC accountable before this Parliament.

I think Mr Grobler also mentioned the zip-zip machines and other matters which, of course, were not accounted for. He even went so far as to say that it would be a waste to give us money because of the things that he has pointed out which are not accounted for by the IEC. I think there he was really on the wrong track. As I said, we are not responsible for the particular matters that he mentioned, specifically.

The hon member Mr Sikakane also reminded us of the tragic memories of the past and the legacy which the past still has on our present and our future

• the levelling of the playing fields. This, in itself, is a social imperative that we must pursue in the most rationale and most effective manner. It will not happen overnight. And it will not happen if we rely exclusively on short cuts. For this reason, we must accept that we need more money. But that money alone will, of course, not solve the problem, hence the need for a strategic vision which will equalise the distribution of our services throughout the territories through municipalities, for which we were complimented also by Mr Pretorius.

I also noted the incongrueces in the location of certain of our offices which our sister the hon member Ms Maunye mentioned. I also noted the problems she raised relating to people who are being divided by boundary lines which were not drawn by the people themselves or by history, but were the product of colonial conquests.

I am hoping that the Immigration Bill, once it becomes law, will make generous provisions for family reunification in cross-border passes so that people can live and work in two different neighbouring countries at the same time.

The hon member Mr Beukman also mentioned things which I echo. I echo the concern he has expressed for the lack of infrastructure which this department has, especially for IT purposes. We need R20 million merely to avoid having our movement control system becoming unusable. Funding is required to keep the department from crashing down, especially in repect of our investment in technology. I have always stated that we, as a country, must invest in technology and that Home Affairs is the right place we should start from, as our services are basic services which serve the population of this country.

I also share the concern that Mr Beukman has expressed that the present flaws and shortcomings of migration control have contributed to impairing the acquisition of needed foreign skills. Some of the remarks he made in respect of the Immigration Bill are also noted, with some points of agreement and some points of disappointment. However, I hope that Mr Beukman, of course, understands how our system of democracy works, and how cabinets in parliaments work. I hope that we can continue discussion on this issue once the Immigration Bill comes before this House and the portfolio committee.

I also thank the hon member Mr Skhosana, who reminded us of the history of the Department of Home Affairs as well. To none of us black people the name ``Home Affairs’’ has never sounded friendly because it did express a culture of lack of service and oppression in the past. These considerations have had a bearing on my vision for the restructuring of the department, including the establishment of an immigration service and the devolution of power to municipalities.

I also thank the hon member Mrs van Wyk, who reminded us that the present situation of the underfunding of my department - an imminent crisis - was predicted by me during the past years, and I have often witnessed the unfolding of disasters in spite of my advance warning. I agree with her sentiments, even though I cannot support her conclusion that this Parliament should vote against my budget. I also agree with her that there comes a time when Parliament must take a leadership role in budgetary matters such as the one that she mentioned, because it does happen in many countries in the world that parliaments do redraft budgets.

Concerning her specific reasons that I made an impassioned plea and yet will vote for the Bill, which she feels is inconsistent, I think the hon member needs to understand how cabinets throughout the world operate.

She must understand the more serious point also that I am in this Cabinet because, during most of the past conflicts between the ANC and IFP members, where more than 20 000 blacks died in the hands of other black people, there were more people who died than those who were killed in the Anglo Boer war.

There is still lots of tensions between the leadership of the ANC and IFP in KwaZulu-Natal, which was the theatre of that war of attrition. Below the surface, there are a lot of tensions. We are trying to nurse a very turmoil situation, and that is the reason why President Mbeki invited the IFP, after the Government of National Unity’s time expired, to still remain in this Cabinet.

I also want to assure the hon member that, in fact, the only reason why I have got to be big and tolerant is because of that. It is not easy, perhaps, for Mr Mbeki to retain me there, and it is not easy for me to remain there. I want to emphasise, for the consumption of all of us, that there are many ANC members who do not want to nurse this relationship, and there are many IFP people who do not want us to nurse this delicate and brittle relationship. I do this for the sake of peace and stability in South Africa. If this effort aborts, then all the gains we have had since 1994 may be completely wiped off, and that would be disasterous, not only for the ANC or the IFP, but for South Africa.

The department, I agree, needs transformation. The statement that Mr Kalako also made that the department could collapse, is a statement that our director-General also made - which I also echoed - that we are in danger of that.

Lastly, many members have, of course, emphasised that transformation is needed in this department. One of the line functions which I gave to my colleague, the Deputy Minister, is that of ensuring that there is representivity in the department.

In fact, Minister Sisulu, as Deputy Minister, achieved representivity in this department. At one time, when Dr Sikweyiya was Minister of Public Services, he actually awarded us the Batho Pele award. We are the only people who got the Batho Pele award, signed by Dr Sikweyiya and Dr Mandela, because of that representivity. In fact, if one looks there, I think there are more black faces than white faces. [Laughter.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

House adjourned at 19:22. ____

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following paper tabled on 14 May 2001 is now referred to the Joint
 Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status
 of Women:


 Report of the Women's Empowerment Unit, including the following
 annexures: Specific Agreement between the Government of Sweden and the
 Government of the Republic of South Africa on the Women's Empowerment
 Unit for the National and Provincial Parliaments of South Africa;
 Amendment to the Agreement between the Government of Sweden and the
 Government of the Republic of South Africa on the Women's Empowerment
 Unit for the National and Provincial Parliaments of South Africa;
 Proposed Extension of Agreement to SIDA; Letter for motivation for
 extension of Agreement to SIDA and Report from the Women's Empowerment
 Unit to the Speakers Forum.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


 Bill, subject to proposed amendments, passed by National Council of
 Provinces on 22 May 2001 and transmitted for consideration of Council's
 proposed amendments:


 (i)    South African Weather Service Bill [B 54B - 2000] (National
       Assembly - sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see Announcements,
       Tablings, Committee Reports p 516).
       The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
       Environmental Affairs and Tourism for a report on the amendments
       proposed by the Council.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Supreme Court Decree, 1990 (Ciskei) Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 22 May 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Supreme Court Decree, 1990 (Ciskei) Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology on the National Council for Library and Information Services Bill [B 44B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 22 May 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, having considered the National Council for Library and Information Services Bill [B 44B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 332), referred to the Committee, reports that -

   (a) after consultation with the Select Committee on Education and Recreation of the National Council of Provinces, it does not support the proposed amendments; and

   (b) it recommends that the Bill be passed without further amendment.

Report to be considered.