National Assembly - 18 May 2001
FRIDAY, 18 MAY 2001
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 09:03.
The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr J H NASH: Mr Chairman, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) candlelighting ceremonies will take place in South Africa and
abroad in sympathy with people living with HIV/Aids, as well as
those that have died as a result of this pandemic; and
(b) the vigil will raise awareness and mobilise communities in the
fight against Aids;
(2) believes that the fight against HIV/Aids is a challenge facing all South Africans and should not be politicised; and
(3) calls on people to support and attend all events planned and to join the partnership in the fight against Aids.
[Applause.]
Mrs P W CUPIDO: Mr Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) with shock and disgust allegations that a child sex syndicate
which involves 15 policemen and detectives has been uncovered in
Johannesburg; and
(b) that the youngest child involved is 14 years old; and
(2) calls on the Minister of Safety and Security as well as the Minister of Social Development to co-ordinate an investigation and to encourage victims to come forward so that the perpetrators can be exposed, arrested, tried and, if found guilty, punished for their offences.
Mr J H SLABBERT: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) appreciates the move by the Airports Company of South Africa (ACSA), in collaboration with the national Department of Agriculture’s veterinary services, to halt the spread of foot-and-mouth disease by introducing foot baths at Johannesburg International Airport and the possibility of another such service at Cape Town International Airport;
(2) believes that the move will secure the health of animals and people since possible carriers of such a disease will be disinfected on entry into or exit from the country by this facility; and
(3) appeals to the public in general and passengers in particular to lend their co-operation to this noble cause.
Mr Q J KGAUWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the World Boxing Union champion, Cassius Baloyi, was shot in the
thigh in a hijacking incident in which one motorist died; and
(b) his car was hijacked in Braamfontein, Johannesburg, in the same
incident;
(2) condemns this cowardly and criminal conduct; and
(3) congratulates the police on the quick arrest of suspects in this case.
Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) South Africa has the highest rate of child abuse in the world;
and
(b) one in every three girls and one in every five boys in South
Africa are abused; (2) further notes that these shocking statistics were pointed out by Mr
Alwyn Nel, SA Post Office Philatelic Services senior manager, at the
launch of a stamp highlighting the plight of children;
(3) believes that it is tragic that so many children in South Africa are suffering; and
(4) urges the Government -
(a) to impose the most severe punishment on anyone found guilty of
committing a crime against a child; and
(b) to ensure that South Africa's children are brought up in a safe
environment and that we provide them with the future they are
entitled to.
Even if that member says it is nonsense, that is what the man said and it is not nonsense. [Interjections.]
Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) notes the incredible record of the Rivubye Secondary School near Louis Trichardt in the Northern Province, with their matric pass rate of 80% for the past 15 years;
(2) salutes the commitment, enthusiasm and innovation of the community, who have built up this school on their own;
(3) notes with dismay that the matric pass rate for other schools in the area is below 20%; and
(4) calls on the Northern Province government to give this school, and others under its jurisdiction, the necessary support and assistance in order for them to excel.
VhaVenda vha hashu! [Our Venda people!] Prof S S RIPINGA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) South Africa is committed to the sociopolitical economic
recovery of the African continent;
(b) democracy is an important component to articulate people's
aspirations for the continent; and
(c) the practice of democracy not only excites thoughts and options,
but also lends itself to and facilitates the intellectual growth
and development of any society;
(2) welcomes President Joseph Kabila’s lifting of the four-year ban on free political activity; and
(3) salutes all African leaders engaged in such efforts to restore the dignity and integrity of the African continent.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) kennis neem daarvan dat die Minister van Onderwys, prof Kader Asmal, dit oorweeg om die magte van beheerliggame by skole verder in te perk deur -
(a) beheerliggame te dwing om personeel aan te stel wat demografies
meer verteenwoordigend is;
(b) die besluit oor taalbeleid by skole nie meer aan beheerliggame
oor te laat nie; en
(c) skole te verbied om skoolgelde in trustfondse in te betaal; en
(2) ‘n beroep doen op die Minister om nie die reeds beperkte magte wat deur die Suid-Afrikaanse Skolewet aan beheerliggame gegee word nog verder in te kort nie, maar dat hy eerder sal toesien dat beheerliggame voldoende magte kry om sodoende skole na behore te bestuur. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Minister of Education, Prof Kader Asmal, is contemplating further restricting the powers of controlling bodies at schools by -
(a) forcing controlling bodies to appoint more demographically
representative staff;
(b) no longer entrusting the decision on language policy at schools
to controlling bodies; and
(c) prohibiting schools from depositing school funds into trust
accounts; and
(2) appeals to the Minister not to curtail any further the already reduced powers granted to controlling bodies by the South African Schools Act, but rather to see to it that controlling bodies receive sufficient powers to be able to manage schools properly.]
Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die AEB sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) met afkeur kennis neem van die barbaarse metodes wat by ‘n sogenaamde Christelike sorgsentrum vir dwelm- en drankverslaafdes in Noupoort gebruik word om pasiënte te dissiplineer;
(2) met skok kennis neem van die dood van die 16-jarige Logan Klingenberg van Pretoria, wat in die detensieselle van die inrigting dood aangetref is nadat hy met ‘n ketting om sy nek aan tralies vasgemaak is op so ‘n wyse dat hy nie kon sit of lê nie;
(3) versoek dat ‘n kommissie van ondersoek aangestel word om die situasie in die sentrum te ondersoek en dienooreenkomstig aanbevelings te maak;
(4) sy vertroue uitspreek dat die persone verantwoordelik vir Logan se dood strafregtelik vervolg sal word;
(5) dit ernstig betreur dat, terwyl die sentrum die naam ``Christelik’’ dra, dit van metodes gebruik maak wat indruis teen alles wat Christus gedoen en geleer het; en
(6) sy meegevoel uitspreek teenoor die familie van Logan. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the AEB:
That the House -
(1) notes with disapproval the barbaric methods used to discipline patients at a so-called Christian care centre at Noupoort for persons addicted to drugs and alcohol;
(2) notes with shock the death of 16-year-old Logan Klingenberg of Pretoria, who was found dead in the detention cells of the institution after he had been chained to the railings by his neck in such a manner that he could not sit or lie down;
(3) requests that a commission of inquiry be appointed to investigate the situation at the centre and to make recommendations accordingly;
(4) expresses its confidence that the persons responsible for Logan’s death will face criminal prosecution;
(5) seriously deplores the fact that, although the centre bears the name ``Christian’’, it uses methods which are contrary to everything Christ did and taught; and
(6) expresses its condolences to Logan’s family.]
Mr R D PIETERSE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes the statement by the Minister for the Public Service and Administration that the Government paid consultants a total of R1,6 billion;
(2) believes that this honest admission reflects the commitment of the ANC-led Government to transparency;
(3) welcomes this acknowledgement; and
(4) supports the commitment by the Government to address this problem.
[Applause.]
Mr N J CLELLAND: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) with dissatisfaction that the ANC Government is spending almost
R600 million on a luxury jet for the President at a time when
the same Government is doing little to uplift the poor; and
(b) that the purchase price of the President's new luxury jet is R45
million more than another luxury jet in the same class and will
cost the taxpayer over R2 million more per year to run than the
less expensive luxury jet; and
(2) calls on the President to think first of the people he is elected to serve and …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time has expired. The rest of the motion will be printed in the Order Paper.
Mr K M ANDREW: Mr Chair, on a point of order, Sir: There is no way that that was one minute. No way whatsoever. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, I go by the timepiece that is in front of me. [Interjections.]
Mr K M ANDREW: Mr Chairman, there is something dreadfully wrong with the clock that has been set … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, there is no need to get excited. I will just take some advice as to the working of the mechanism. The Chair can only go by the timepiece that is here.
It is agreed that there was a problem, and I think if it was brought to my attention in a civil manner we would have dealt with it in a civil manner. [Interjections.] There was no need to get excited. I simply go by what is here.
Hon member, you will be allowed to proceed.
Mr K M ANDREW: Chairperson, on a point of order: Are you suggesting that what I said was not said in a civil manner?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, you could have risen on a point of order. You could have addressed me rather than showing annoyance at the fact that I was merely doing what the timepiece required …
Mr K M ANDREW: Mr Chairman, with due respect, Sir, I am doing my job as a Whip, and I think I did it in a way that got the result we wanted. I do not understand why you are angry about the way I did it.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Because, hon member, you would have got the same result had you approached the Chair and indicated that there was something wrong. [Interjections.] Hon member, you may proceed.
Mr N J CLELLAND:
(b) that the purchase price of the President's jet is R45 million
more than another luxury jet in the same class, and will cost
the taxpayer about R2 million more per year to run than the less
expensive jet; and
(2) calls on the President to think first of the people he is elected to serve and -
(a) spend less time overseas;
(b) make use of SA Airways for his travel needs; and
(c) reconsider this outrageously expensive luxury.
[Interjections.]
Dr E A SCHOEMAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the ANC-led Government has taken steps to improve the security of judges and police officers involved in investigating and presiding in urban terror cases in the Western Cape;
(2) acknowledges that this demonstrates the preparedness of the ANC Government to defend our democracy and our Constitution; and
(3) welcomes the decision to improve security for judges and police officers investigating urban terror cases.
[Applause.]
Mnr F BEUKMAN: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) met ernstige kommer kennis neem dat -
(a) die migrasiekontrolestelsel wat in 1989 in werking gestel is,
totaal verouderd en ontoereikend is;
(b) die stelsel, wat 'n werkleeftyd van slegs vyf jaar gehad het,
reeds 12 jaar in werking is;
(c) die stelsel totaal ontoereikend is vir die regulering en
monitering van migrasie en nie die volume data kan hanteer nie;
en
(d) Suid-Afrika se integriteit van sy grensbeheerstelsel hierdeur
gekompromiteer en onderhewig aan ernstige wanpraktyke kan wees;
(2) sy ernstige skok uitspreek dat die R20 miljoen wat benodig word om die stelsel op te gradeer nie deur die Departement van Finansies aan Binnelandse Sake beskikbaar gestel is nie; en
3) 'n beroep op Minister Trevor Manuel doen om dringend toe te sien dat
die nodige stappe gedoen word om Suid-Afrikaanse migrasiebeheer
voldoende te befonds ten einde dit effektief en werkbaar te maak. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr F BEUKMAN: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House -
(1) notes with serious concern that -
(a) the migration control system that was introduced in 1989 is
totally outdated and inadequate;
(b) the system, which had a working life of only five years, has
already been in operation for 12 years;
(c) the system is totally inadequate for the regulation and
monitoring of migration and cannot handle the volume of data;
and
(d) the integrity of South Africa's border control system can be
compromised and subject to serious malpractices as a result of
this;
(2) expresses its great shock that the R20 million needed to upgrade the system has not been made available to the Department of Home Affairs by the Department of Finance; and
(3) appeals to Minister Trevor Manuel urgently to see to it that the necessary steps are taken for the adequate funding of South Africa’s migration control in order to make it effective and viable.]
Prof L M MBADI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the criticism levelled at governments around the world by
doctors at the World Congress of Family Doctors held in South
Africa, when this congress lashed out at governments for their
spendthrift nature with regard to the purchasing of arms and
ammunition instead of providing health care; and
(b) the wide consensus present at the congress that the HIV/Aids
epidemic is the most devastating epidemic in human history, yet
governments are not doing enough;
(2) expresses its concern with regard to a statement by Dr Wendy Orr, who stated that little has changed in the quality of health care in South African prisons since the days of the old South Africa; (3) supports Dr Orr’s call on her colleagues to speak out when they see abuses of human rights or inequities in the allocation of health care …
[Time expired.]
Dr A S NKOMO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) on Wednesday, 16 May 2001, an Aids Candle was lit in Parliament
as a symbol of continued concern for those living with HIV/Aids;
and
(b) on Sunday, 20 May 2001, under the slogan ``One Voice, Many
Faces, United for Life'', mass rallies have been organised by
the Government alongside the whole world, under the banner of
the International Day of Prayer, to highlight the plight of
those infected with and affected by HIV/Aids and to remember
those who have succumbed in this epidemic;
(2) congratulates the Department of Health on its caring and sensitive attitude to those who have been affected by this dreadful epidemic; and
(3) condemns the DP for their cruel and cynical motion on this subject on 17 May 2001.
[Applause.]
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 27 - Labour:
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, here is a man called Douglas Gibson displaying his ignorance. He does not know that this is the uniform that we put on when we inspect all workplaces in this country, including his. [Applause.]
Today the people of our country, black and white, young and old, can say without equivocation and with great confidence that as a country and as a nation, we are on course. While the positive signs we see in the tapestry of our socioeconomic landscape do not suggest that we have already reached our desired destination, only those who fail to see reality for what it is would refuse to admit that we are, indeed, on course. Each step we have taken in developing and implementing progressive policies, as we have done, has brought us closer and closer to our destination.
We are on course in steering this country away from the rout of an economy which was mismanaged and destined to collapse. We are on course in creating an environment conducive to job creation. We are on course in promoting high levels of productivity through skills development. We are on course in combating unfair discrimination in the workplace. We are on course in breaking the back of adversarial labour relations and in ensuring that employers do not exploit vulnerable workers with impunity. We are on course in taking decisive steps to tackle problems we face in the occupational health and safety environment, for we we are determined to ensure that no employer places profit ahead of human life.
We are on course. The path we have chosen is not paved with the glitter of gold. But even as we feel our way through thorn-bearing bushes, climb sky- scrapping hills and navigate crocodile-infested waters, we remain undaunted by the complexity of our assignment and the length of the journey ahead, because we know that we are on course. Since 1994 we have marched proudly and tirelessly on this challenging path as we began to recraft policies and legislation with a determination to deepen our democracy, grow our economy, promote our international competitiveness, create employment opportunities, promote skills development, equity, social justice, and eradicate poverty.
While acknowledging the impossibility of reversing within seven years the intractable and stupendous mess the apartheid regime of the NP created over several generations, we do, nevertheless, derive satisfaction from the fact that the measures we have introduced in the labour market enable us to echo the President’s words during the state of the nation address when he said, and I quote: ``Gradually, step by step, our country is moving away from its painful past.’’ In that regard hon members will no doubt agree that we are on course.
We are on course in reducing adversarial labour relations and promoting workplace peace and stability. Our own figures, as well as independently collected statistics, tell us that the number of person days lost due to strikes is gradually declining. In fact, last year, the number of person days lost was at an all-time low. In addition, the vast majority of strikes are procedural and there is very little violence associated with them.
There are a number of reasons for these exciting figures. One of them relates to the fact that the changes which the 1995 Labour Relations Act introduced, are beginning to bear fruit. Employers and employees have become familiar with the new procedures and are using them more and more to strengthen and consolidate collective bargaining. Strong, mature collective bargaining means that disputes such as those relating to wages are more likely to be settled through negotiations than having to resort to strike action. The significance of this phenomenon is that it heralds a dispensation in which the labour market has become more stable and less unpredictable. This is an undeniable and resounding affirmation of our approach to labour market policy.
The labour policy review process we undertook last year also confirms, in no uncertain terms, that our policies are sound and in line with our vision to maintain an elusive balance between labour market efficiency and decent labour standards. Therefore the proposed amendments to the Labour Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act that I announced last year are not aimed at overhauling labour market policies, but at improving the application of the law and increasing sensitivity of our laws towards the imperatives of job creation and, in the words of the President, `` … to address unintended consequences’’.
As hon members may know, social partners are engaged in debating the draft Bills at Nedlac and through other bilateral processes. The vitriolic cacophony sparked by some of the controversial changes I proposed has now evaporated without trace as social partners engage with each other and begin to understand what the Government sought to achieve through these amendments.
I have given sufficient time and space to social partners to debate the proposals and, based on the feedback I have received, it looks as if this country will, indeed, be graced by an unprecedented miracle. Whether one believes it or not, it is coming. It is indeed unprecedented in this country for organised business and labour to rise above their respective immediate interests, as they have now demonstrated, to promote the interests of the broader citizenry. I therefore would like to congratulate organised business and labour for the broad agreement that these constituencies are crafting. [Applause.] I can assure them that the Government will take the proposed deal very seriously in finalising the proposed Bills before they are tabled in Parliament.
But it is equally important for me to register my growing impatience and concern at the slow pace that this process has assumed. While I understand that quality time is necessary for quality deals, we cannot allow captains of industry and workers’ representatives to talk forever. We need to bring finality and closure to this matter, and in this regard I expect a report from Nedlac not later than June this year.
We are also on course in implementing skills development legislation passed by this honourable House. In order to address the skills deficit which continues to restrain the rate at which our economy grows, my department has launched a national skills development strategy, whose objectives are: the development of a culture of high quality, lifelong learning; fostering skills development in the formal economy for productivity and employment growth; stimulating and supporting skills development in small businesses; promoting skills development for employability and sustainable livelihood through social development initiatives; and assisting new entrants in employment.
Each objective is linked to a set of measurable targets. The targets include, for example, ensuring that 75% of large firms are claiming grants and enjoying measurable benefits; and that 80 000 young people are in learnerships by March 2005, and ensuring that at least 50% of those that have completed learnerships are in some kind of employment or in further study thereafter. Similar targets have been agreed to for each objective.
This strategy advances key aspects of the human resource development spearheaded by my department and the Department of Education, and announced by the President in this year’s state of the nation address. I am confident that with the energy of my team in the department, matched by the energy and commitment of employers who are hungry for skilled staff and workers who are hungry to learn, we will meet these targets. This is one of the key interventions which will ensure that gradually, step by step, our country moves away from its painful past.
I remain deeply saddened and devastated by the incident that occurred in a Lenasia factory last year, where 11 workers died following the outbreak of a fire. As hon members know, the owner of the factory and his manager are facing serious criminal charges. Certain officials of the Department of Labour, suspected of having acted with indiscretion and ineptitude, have been suspended and charged. I trust that the outcome of these processes will send a clear signal that the state will not tolerate conduct which shows contempt for the lives of others.
Following the Lenasia incident, inspectors of my department flooded industrial parks throughout the country to assess the extent of noncompliance with workplace safety standards. Within a three-week period, more than 500 factories were visited. We were horrified by the extent of noncompliance in most small factories. In some instances, employers and workers alike were ignorant of the safety regulations. In other instances, it was found that employers knowingly and dismissively disregarded safety regulations, taking advantage of the relative vulnerability of workers.
Our revised enforcement strategy is now informed by these findings which we cannot afford to ignore. To this end, we have launched an awareness campaign in collaboration with the three main labour federations, supported by Business South Africa. This campaign has resulted in the establishment of safety and health committees in order to monitor compliance in the various workplaces. We have intensified blitz inspections to improve visibility of labour inspectors in factories. We have also decided to be more targeted and to focus on areas identified as hot spots. All these strategies are aimed at ensuring that we provide the highest possible standards of protection for workers.
I would like to pause for a moment and pay well-deserved tribute to inspectors of my department for their commitment and dedicated service under very difficult and trying circumstances. Some of them from the Western Cape are up in the gallery today. [Applause.] That is why I am wearing this hat and this jacket today. Ek is nou ‘n inspekteur. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daardie lid moet oppas, want ek is nou ‘n inspekteur. [Gelag.] [I am now an inspector. [Interjections.] That member should watch out, because I am now an inspector. Laughter.]]
Sometimes these inspectors have had dogs set on them by bellicose farmers, and some have suffered verbal and physical abuse at the hands of belligerent employers.
Ek wil graag aan my toegewyde inspekteurs sê dat hulle nie moed moet opgee, wanneer hulle as gevolg van hul deeglike werk beledig of vervolg word nie. [I would like to say to my dedicated inspectors that they should not get discouraged when they, because of their sterling work, are insulted or persecuted.]
Kumlisela namaqobokazana, angamajoni angamadindala nabalindi beli Sebe leZabasebenzi, afunzwa ngezinja, atyatyekwa ngezithuko, atyityinjiselwa iminwe, axhatshazwayo, atshicelwayo ngenxa yokuba esenza umsebenzi wawo ngondiliseko nangomonde, ndifuna ukuthi kuwo: Makaqine esazi nje ukuba umsebenzi wawo awulambathi eNkosini. Ndifuna ukuthi lo uphetheyo uRhulumente ungecala lawo. Uzimisele ukujongana neemfuno zawo ukuwenza lula umsebenzi wawo omkhulu kangaka. Makayazi into yokuba sinqumla intlango enookrebe, enezandawana namaxhwili. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[To the young men and women, who are soldiers who serve as the guards and warders of the Department of Labour, on whom dogs are set, at whom insults are levelled and fingers are pointed, who are abused and spat on, because they do their job diligently and in a dignified manner, I would also like to say: They should be strong for their labour is not in vain in the eyes of the Lord. I would like to tell them that this Government is on their side. It is committed to catering for their needs so as to ease their enormous task. They should know that we are crossing a desert that is filled with daunting challenges.]
When it comes to the issue of the safety of workers, a zero tolerance approach can be expected from my department. The problem of racism and sexism in our country did not evaporate with the adoption of what is deservedly referred to as one of the most progressive constitutions in the modern world. Black people, women and people with disabilities continue to suffer the indignity of being marginalised and being discriminated against in the workplace. It is not by an accident of history that the majority of unemployed people are black. This is as a result of many years of social engineering by the NP racist regime. It has left us with a legacy we cannot think away or sweep under the carpet. This cannot be removed within seven years.
A number of interventions are required for us to move this country away from its painful past. It was in recognition of this accomplishment that this honourable House passed the Employment Equity Act, which my department administers. Empowered by this Act, my department has rolled out a number of initiatives aimed at ensuring that those who hail from designated groups are given the chance and the opportunity they rightfully deserve.
In October last year we released the first employment equity report based on reports from companies who employ over 150 employees. We plan to release, within a couple of months, a more comprehensive report on all employers who have reported. Despite what our detractors have said about our not having capacity, we were able to receive, capture and analyse all the reports sent in. The problems seemed much greater from the employers’ side. Despite the 18-month breathing period from the time the law was passed until the date when reports were due, about one third of companies still wanted extensions.
The results released so far speak volumes. Black people only make up 27% of senior managers, including legislators. This means that employers continue to discriminate against professionals from the designated groups. This is unacceptable in a country that suffers from an acute skills deficiency. However, there are some companies which have made significant headway and are beginning to reap the benefits of doing so. The challenge in the next period for the department is to provide more support for employers and workers who are trying to achieve this goal, and to take action against those who show no will to comply.
One area of support that we are working on is the development of a number of guidelines and codes of good practice to ensure the proper implementation of the Employment Equity Act. On 1 December last year, I promulgated a code of good practice on key aspects of HIV/Aids and employment. This code covers a range of topical and important issues, including HIV testing, confidentiality, disclosure, discrimination, counselling and support, ensuring a safe working environment and workplace programmes. So brilliant and comprehensive is our code that even the International Labour Organisation has decided to use it as the basis for developing a code that will enjoy international status.
On 20 April I released, for public comment, a draft code of practice on key aspects of disability in the workplace. This code is intended to be a guide on how to employ, retrain and value people with disabilities in a working environment. So, while admitting that we are not yet there, we can nevertheless confirm that we are on course.
The department remains committed to the protection of vulnerable workers through the implementation of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. To this end, we published last year a sectoral determination for security workers. The process of finalising a follow-up sectoral determination is at an advanced stage. I am encouraged by the way that employers and employees are co-operating in resolving this matter.
As required by law, I will wait for the Employment Conditions Commission to submit its report and recommendations on this matter before I promulgate a sectoral determination. In the meantime, the parties are bound by what I determined last year. Given that the security industry employs workers who are amongst the most exploited in South Africa, we have also set up for the first time, in terms of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, a security workers provident fund in order to improve their conditions and benefits structure. These measures will constitute a giant milestone in moving workers in the security industry step by step away from their painful past.
High on our agenda this year is the setting of minimum wages and conditions of work for farm and domestic workers. During the next few weeks I will be releasing for public comment two detailed reports on the conditions of work of farm and domestic workers and on our proposals in respect of wages and conditions of work. We have already had public hearings throughout the country and have asked the public for comments, but, in order to ensure that all views are heard and all concerns are taken into account, we are giving employers and workers a further opportunity to express their views and influence the outcome. The Employment Conditions Commission will consider all these views and advise me so that these determinations may be finalised.
The promulgation of a sectoral determination and a code of good practice for workers on job creation schemes can also be expected shortly. The sectoral determination has already been finalised and I am awaiting feedback from Nedlac in respect of the code of good practice. This initiative will undoubtedly create an environment for more jobs to be created. When more jobs are created, more people will be able to put food on the table, more parents will be able to send their children to school, and the vicious cycle of poverty, ignorance and disease will be broken as this country accelerates its pace further and further away from its painful past.
I recently tabled in this Parliament the new Unemployment Insurance Bill. When this Bill is passed as law and implemented, it will be implemented with a new information technology system which my department has developed in anticipation of these legislative changes. This system records each and every employer that contributes to the fund, allows for electronic payments, establishes the eligibility of a claim electronically and enables clients to receive their benefits electronically.
When the proposed Bill is passed into law by this House, it is expected that it will reduce incidents of noncompliance by employers, reduce the vulnerability of the fund from being defrauded, bring to an end the structural deficit of the fund and stop the arbitrary and unfair denial of unemployment insurance benefits to domestic workers, thus contributing to the creation of an effective social security system. These are the types of initiatives that make us say unashamedly that, indeed, we are on course in steering this country away from its painful past.
The year 2001 also marks a significant strategic shift for the Department of Labour, a shift away from policy formulation to a focus on implementation of legislation. It was in contemplation of this shift that the department was restructured into business units charged with delivery of services at provincial offices and labour centres. The structure of our budget reflects this shift. In order to effectively pursue this new direction, we have created a new programme called Service Delivery. The Minister of Finance will be delighted to know that we are not asking for more money to implement this programme. Instead we will decentralise resources from head office to labour centres where officials of the department will interface directly with our clients.
The integrated inspection and enforcement task team has now developed a comprehensive enforcement strategy to be rolled out this year. While the strategy seeks to promote voluntary compliance, it also takes a hard-line approach towards habitual noncompliance. Informed by this strategy, inspectors have begun inundating workplaces and demanding compliance with labour legislation.
Nothing vindicates our integrated approach to inspection better than the workplace accident statistics. Since the implementation of the integrated inspection system there has been a 17,3% decrease in workplace accidents. The capacity of the department to provide proactive inspection and to speedily investigate accidents has been tremendously enhanced.
Despite this phenomenal decrease in the number of accidents, I remain concerned that there are people who will still go to work to die. As far as I am concerned, a single death is one death too many. That is why the integrated inspection and enforcement strategy focuses on prevention and seeks to promote collaboration with workers and employers, without which our efforts aimed at preventing workplace accidents and deaths are sure to fail.
In line with Government’s zero tolerance of corruption, my department during this financial year has dismissed all officials found guilty of fraud and corruption. As many of the members may know and may have heard from the news this morning, a swift and decisive move by my department has resulted in the arrest of two senior officials of the Forestry Sectoral Education and Training Authority by the Scorpions. Assets allegedly obtained from stolen money were impounded by the Asset Forfeiture Unit. This is the kind of intervention corrupt officials can expect from my department. I congratulate the Scorpions on their timely action and trust that the law will take its course. [Applause.]
In line with Batho Pele, my department recently adopted a service charter that commits officials of the department to a high standard of service delivery, characterised by courtesy towards clients, efficiency and professionalism in service delivery. It is by these standards that we must be judged, not because we lay any claims to infallibility or perfection. We have adopted this charter with all the humility that we can muster, simply because we are committed to serving those who face the trap of being injured or killed at work.
We have adopted this charter so that it can guide us as we seek to serve those whose dignity and self-esteem have been eroded by the pain of joblessness; those whose potential to ascend the corporate ladder has been constrained and frustrated by lack of skills; those who have been prevented from pursuing careers of choice because of colour, gender or physical disability; and those who are systematically denied decent labour standards. Those are the people for whom we exist. Those are the people we dare not fail. While we have not yet reached our destination, we can see with a clear eye that we are getting closer and closer, and that is why we can say, with an honest voice, that we are on course.
Allow me to conclude by thanking persons and institutions that have contributed to our successes during the previous financial year. First of all I would like to pay a well-deserved tribute to my learned Director- General, Adv Rams Ramashia, for his unqualified support, outstanding performance and unparalleled commitment to the vision of the Department of Labour. [Applause.] I would also like to thank my overworked team of senior managers, many of whom are present in the public gallery today. I would also like to thank the foot soldiers of the department in provincial offices and labour centres for their commitment and hard work, as well as social partners for their much-needed support and all statutory institutions that complement the work of the department.
I would be failing in my duty if I did not acknowledge the stunning work done by the Portfolio Committee on Labour in effectively carrying out their oversight role under the leadership of Comrade Salie Manie. Their contribution in this regard has also helped in ensuring that we remain on course. [Applause.]
Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, there has not been a coup. The chairperson fell ill on Tuesday and he is off sick.
The DEPUTY CHAIPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, the speaker is soft-spoken, and if you are also going to be speaking at the same time, no one will be able to hear her. [Interjections.] Order! Yes, I understand, but it is important that the hon member is heard. Proceed, hon member.
Ms E THABETHE: Chaiperson, the theme ``a nation at work’’, one of the prime objectives …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I have allowed you to carry on with your conversations in an undertone, but when the Chair appeals to you to be silent in order that the business of the House can flow, please take heed. When it is possible, the Chair does allow you a lot of latitude. So when I am calling on you to be silent, please co-operate with me.
Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, it is no surprise; they are always like this. [Interjections.] This is one of the prime objectives of the ANC Government … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I want the business of this House to proceed, and I do not want us to be sidetracked by other issues. Please, now, if you could allow the debate to proceed. [Interjections.] Order! I am not going to tolerate this from both sides! I want the hon member to be able to make a contribution. If she cannot be heard, it would be quite pointless. So, hon member, you may proceed. I request hon members please to co-operate for the duration of the hon member’s speech. [Interjection.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, on a point of order: Are you ruling that this hon member is entitled to be listened to in absolute silence and that nobody may say anything during her speech? Is that what you are ruling? If that is the case, could I perhaps just get clarity and establish why she is accorded this particular consideration when other people are not listened to at all and get shouted down? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, this is a point of order, and the hon Gibson is perfectly entitled to rise on a point of order and I would like to hear him. Proceed, hon member.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Perhaps the Chairperson would like to answer my question?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, I will. Hon members, the Chair exercises its discretion. And so long as it was possible for a member to be heard, the Chair has permitted, since this morning, quite a number of members to undertake their discussions in undertones. But if members take the podium and do not have the voice to be able to be heard, I think the Chair is entitled to ask hon members to co-operate.
The Chair is not saying that this member is the only one who will be so privileged. If another member who comes from another side were also to have the same impediment, the Chair would attempt to protect that member. I think that the House will accord the Chair the right to attempt to influence the way in which the debate is going, moment by moment. Right now, if the speaker at the podium can speak and raise her voice, well, I think we will be in a position to allow hon members to continue with their conversations in undertones, but if not, please let us allow business to proceed.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, arising from your ruling, may I request you to consider two things: firstly, to do something about the sound system so that the person can be heard, after all that is what the sound system is for and, secondly, to please rule that the person who is speaking may not attempt to engage the opposition or anybody else and that the ruling which you have given about our sitting in absolute silence will be cancelled if she tries to engage the opposition. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I think it is fair that if someone needs consideration, they also need to play by the same rules, so I would like to allow that to happen. As far as the sound system is concerned, I do know that the matter is under review.
Mr N J GOGOTYA: Chairperson, on a point of order: I think it is unfortunate for the hon member to imply that the Chair has given a ruling that says that there must be absolute silence. The Chairperson used the term ``undertones’’, and there is quiet a grammatical difference between the two, and I think the hon member … [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, basically I am asking the hon members please to try and co-operate with the Chair, and let us not put too fine a point on that. The hon member may proceed.
Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, I repeat, the theme ``a nation at work’’ is one of the prime objectives of the ANC Government. The budget before us today furthers this objective. Six years ago we inherited a world of work based on economic deprivation, adversarial labour relations and blatant denial of worker rights; run on a cheap and migrant labour system, massive income and wealth disparities, systematic exploitation and discrimination against poor people, women, youth, people with disabilities and other groups, and high unemployment levels.
This terrible and unacceptable inhumane legacy did not vanish into thin air when the ANC took over the reins of Government. Hon Tony Leon will always remind the members of the past. [Interjections.] We are not going to be lectured by the DP as to what happened. I expect a leader of the opposition to behave like one, not like a youth league member. [Interjections.]
Even today this legacy continues to weigh heavily on the working lives of our people and on the business environment. Despite the distorted labour market framework that we inherited, the ANC-led Government has been successful in delivering on our promise of a new labour dispensation that entrenches not only the rights denied for so many decades, but also lays the foundation for sustainable and sound economic growth.
This approach to labour market policy has been informed by the overall programme of the first democratic Government and the recommendations of the comprehensive labour market commission appointed by the President in 1999. This has provided the basis for legislation such as passed by Parliament between 1994 and 1999, legislation such the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, the Labour Relations Act, the Skills Development Act and so on, which today provide the foundation of our labour policy.
Indeed, when the ANC preaches a better life for all, it also includes better working conditions for workers of this country and job creation measures for the unemployed masses, which this budget seeks to implement. Indeed, industrial relations have never been so good. We have seen the publication of certificates of accreditation for 21 bargaining councils. We have seen nearly 17 000 disputes referred to bargaining councils. The department has monitored collective bargaining trends and overseen the CCMA as a supporting implementation institution.
The launch of a code of good practice on key aspects of disability in the workplace is a significant step in promoting the rights of the most marginalised of our community. I know that the opposition will never ever be grateful or humbly acknowledge this progressive budget, even if it is to the advantage of the people they claim to represent, claims they made so loudly when they campaign for elections, but which they forget when it comes to supporting the progressive laws that we pass in this House. [Interjections.]
Batho beso, le se mameleng bana ba sa tsebeng moo ba yang teng. Rona, re le mokgatlo wa ANC, re tseba hantle hore na re hlaha kae, re ya kae. Ba seke ba le kopanya hlooho, hobane le lona le tla latela bona, athe ha ho moo ba yang teng.
Ba hlolehile, ka dilemo-lemo, hore ba lokisetse basebetsi ba naha ena. Ba sa ntse ba hloleha le kajeno, empa mokgatlo wa ANC o tseba hantle hore ditletlebo tsa basebetsi ke dife, mme o etsa tseo ka bolokolohi haholo, hobane ha ho sa na mosebetsi ya hlekefetswang jwalo ka ha ba ne ba ba hlekefetsa ka nako eo ba neng ba ba tshwere ka yona.
Nnete ha ba e batle, ke kahoo le kajeno re utlwang manyampetla a etsahetseng ho Seta, mme ba Lefapha la tsa Mesebetsi ba ba ba bona ho le molemo hore ba jwetse mapolesa hore ho na le tse sa lokang, tse etsahalang. Ke ipotsa hore ha e ne e le bona, ba ne ba tla etsa jwang. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Comrades, do not listen to these people who do not know where they are going. We, the ANC, know very well where we are coming from and where we are going to. They should not confuse you because you will then follow them, even though they do not know where they are going.
They have been defeated, throughout the years, by the task of rectifying matters for the workers of this country. They are still unable to do so, even today. However, the ANC knows very well what the complaints of the workers are, and it attends to them freely, because there are no longer any abused workers, like they used to practise abuse when they were in power. They do not want the truth. That is why, even today, we hear about the bad things that happened at Seta, and the Department of Labour decided to tell the police that there are some bad things that are happening. I wonder what they would have done, if they were in that position.]
I repeat, relations have never been as good as they are under the ANC-led Government. [Interjections.] The Minister has pointed out how the changes introduced by the Labour Relations Act of 1995 are beginning to bear fruit. The Department of Labour’s approach to labour market policy entails the following good points: regulation of the labour market in order to resolve inherited rigidities and inflexibility; promotion of labour market and overall economic efficiency; employment creation; promotion of worker security and safety through the maintenance of socially acceptable and mandated minimum conditions and standards of employment, which are in line with the constitutional requirements; promotion of participatory co- operative labour market relations in the context of an institutionalised and regulated framework; and promotion of equity and skills development in the labour market.
Surely, we are fully behind Comrade Minister and his department in their efforts to further realise those aspects that are not easily tackled. On the other hand, the advocates of deregulation and labour market flexibility understate the inherited rigidities and inequalities that are built into the market. They are not sensitive to the poor conditions of work of many sectors in which disadvantaged employees work, farm work security and domestic work being an example. They underestimate the social and private costs of a highly deregulated workforce in specific circumstances in South Africa.
The Minister has said that the proposed amendments to the Labour Relations
Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act are not aimed at overhauling
labour market policies, as many members of the opposition parties seem to
think seeing how vocal they are about the legislation, as if they are the
champions of the working class, whereas they failed dismally during their
time. The opposition should not think that they can foster tensions within
the ANC-led alliance. Who are they, anyway, to start doing that? Their
deurmekaar'' [mixed-up] alliance is falling apart now. They should be
ashamed of that because from the outset it was not formed on clear
principles and policies. It was just adeurmekaar’’ alliance, hence it is
falling apart. [Interjections.]
That business and labour are now working together to reach agreement on the proposed changes is the hallmark of our democracy, an example that our official opposition would do well to follow. [Interjections.] The opposition will never ever be able to change the position of the ANC, even if they would like to, because they do not have the power and the energy.
Job creation is at the forefront for every one of us who is committed to improving the lives of our people. We are confident because the department has launched the national skills development strategy. The ANC knows that too many of our people are hungry. We need not lecture on that. We also know that building our economy is a task for all sectors, and that we cannot simply rely on the department, or even Government as a whole, to create jobs alone. This department has a major role to play, and the skills development strategy, with its measurable targets, is a significant step towards building a skilled, competitive and profitable workplace.
Our country faces many challenges. As we complete one step we are faced with another challenge. HIV/Aids is a critical challenge. The department has grasped this challenge with the promulgation of the code of good practice. [Interjections.] As parliamentarians we have a role to play in ensuring that message is taken from this Parliament into our communities, into the workplace and into our constituencies.
We do not need to be lectured by the hon Leon on what HIV/Aids is and what is causing it now. He is not really keen to listen to other people’s views, so he must just shut up. [Interjections.] Taking note of the hon Ruth Bhengu’s appeal for us all to engage in tackling this task, it is gratifying that the most disempowered of our farm and domestic workers will be receiving the attention of the Department of Labour.
Last year saw the ANC Government launch the Millennium Labour Council. We hope that the culture of social and meaningful dialogue will be strengthened, based on a strong foundation, and will reach the experience of Nedlac. Business and labour leaders identified two critical matters facing the country, when agreeing to set up the Millennium Labour Council, namely unemployment, job losses and lack of job creation, which constitute a deepening crisis requiring urgent attention. Current levels of poverty and inequality are unacceptable and require new initiatives, to promote improved quality of life and decent work for all.
In his opening address at the launch of the Council, the hon President quoted Franklin Roosevelt, who said in 1937:
I see a great nation, upon a great continent, blessed with a great wealth of natural resources. Its people are at peace among themselves; they are making their country a good neighbour among the nations. I see a United States which can demonstrate that, under democratic methods of government, national wealth can be translated into a spreading volume of human comforts, hitherto unknown, and the lowest standard of living can be raised far above the level of mere subsistence …
But here is the challenge to our democracy: In this nation, I see tens of millions - a substantial part of its whole population - who at this very moment are denied the greater part of … the necessities of life. I see millions of families trying to live on incomes so meagre that the pall of family disaster hangs over them day by day. I see millions whose daily lives in city and on farm continue under conditions labelled indecent by so-called polite society half a century ago. I see millions denied education, recreation, and the opportunity to better their lot and the lot of their children. I see millions lacking the means to buy the products of farm and factory and by their poverty denying work and productiveness to many other millions. I see one third of a nation ill- housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished.
It is not in despair that I paint you that picture. I paint it for you in hope - because the nation, seeing and understanding the injustice in it, proposes to paint it out. We are determined to make every American citizen the subject of his country’s interest and concern; and we will never regard any faithful law-abiding group within our borders as superfluous. The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.
Let us pay heed to these words. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, before I call you … Order! Hon Mr Gibson, I would like to invite you, either now or at any suitable juncture when I am again in the Chair, to address the question of private conversations. This is because I think we need to have an understanding on the side of the presiding officers as to the level of private conversations that may be permissible. You will recall that the speaker, on the occasion of closing Parliament just before the recess appealed to the House in this matter. I think you would be assisting the House and the presiding officers if, when you are ready, you would take the opportunity to address the issue. Thank you.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for the invitation. Obviously, I have not had an opportunity to consider the matter carefully. However, I think that it is entirely appropriate for the Chair to intervene when there is so much noise in the House that the person speaking cannot be heard. Perhaps that is what the Chair attempted to do. With regard to the person who has just addressed the House, her voice strengthened remarkably after that, and I was tempted to stand up and suggest that you reverse your ruling because she was more than capable of being heard by all of us above the hubbub. [Interjections.]
But, on a more serious note, I think, with great respect, that the Chair should avoid interfering unnecessarily which, in fact, creates more disturbance than the members do. [Interjections.] I do not say that as a reflection on the Chair at all. I think Parliament is not a place where we sit dead quiet. And sometimes the quality of the speaker determines whether persons sitting here want to listen or not. They must be able to engage the ear of the House. But it is appropriate that if people are being shouted down they should be protected, and I would go along with that.
The next speaker who is coming to the podium has a very quiet little voice as well. So and I am hoping that you will give him similar protection.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEES: Order! Yes, the Chair has to be totally impartial. The Chair, as you are aware, is the creature of this House and whatever the Chair does is by leave of this House.
What I would like to suggest is that perhaps these matters need to be taken up at the Rules Committee in order that there is greater clarity. And I do take the point that the Chair also is not above being corrected, and the Chair would appreciate healthy criticism in order that we can get the correct balance.
Mr N J CLELLAND: Mr Chairperson, Mr Mdladlana has been in labour for 34 months, but he still has not delivered. [Interjections.]
Many people seem to believe that governments create jobs and that the Minister should create jobs. This is not true. Frankly, governments cannot and should not try to create jobs. So why then has the hon the Minister failed? Let us be perfectly clear about this. The Ministry of Labour has not created the environment that encourages the maximum possible investment, entrepreneurship and job creation. Indeed, it would be safe to assume that Government in general, and the Department of Labour in particular, are closing down businesses, throttling the economy, deterring investment and throwing thousands of people onto the scrapheap of unemployment.
Let us examine why. It is an indisputable fact that unless we are able to achieve 5% to 6% growth per year sustained over a long period, we are not going to be able to reduce the backlog of unemployment and poverty in South Africa. But in his Budget Speech earlier this year, Minister Manuel announced, and I quote:
Over the next three years, we expect growth to average 3,5% a year …
The implications of this are disastrous, and the reasons are self-evident. [Interjections.]
One of the most important impediments to growth, and therefore job creation, is the current low investor confidence levels which, generally speaking, are not due to dissatisfaction with South Africa’s macroeconomic position, but other social and political areas in which the Government can play a role. These are areas like taxation, the quality of infrastructure, crime and the inflexible labour regime. [Interjections.]
Investors, local and foreign, do not feel secure enough to make long-term investments in South Africa. It is a fact. What if they invest heavily in new machines, and further changes to the labour regime make it too expensive to employ operators to run them? It is an indisputable fact that the new labour laws have radically changed companies’ cost structures, resulting in even more scrapped capital. Business managers are not sure that the country provides the best place in which to commit their capital and themselves over the long term.
The American Chambers of Commerce in South Africa reported that foreign investors regarded South Africa’s labour legislation as entrenching an inefficient labour force, resulting in high costs. The US Cotton Board cites low productivity and union enforced wage rates as limiting South Africa’s ability to benefit from the USA Africa Growth and Opportunity Act’s apparel preferences. Cape Town’s BMD Textiles says that onerous labour laws are to blame for their massive retrenchments. South Africa’s largest blanket manufacturer, Waverley Blankets, have relocated to Botswana due to high labour costs. Incidentally, in Botswana incentives include the repayment of roughly 80% of labour costs for the first three years.
Tiger Wheels is the fifth biggest aluminium wheel manufacturer in the world. They make wheels here, in Germany and in Poland. But in Poland, where the wage rate is about the same as in South Africa, the average employee is far better educated. In Poland, one third of employees’ wages are performance related. In Poland, Tiger Wheels is profitable. In South Africa, their home base, they are running at a loss.
All levels of workers at Tiger Wheels SA, from top management all the way down, except at the union level, said they were prepared to forego any increase, because of the economic situation. The union, of course, went on strike, and the arbitrator ruled that they were entitled to a wage increase, because the rest of the industry was getting a wage increase. Where does the Minister think Tiger Wheels will make their next investment?
Example after example, time after time, shows the nagging concern of every South African investor and businessperson. Our inflexible labour market increases costs, and increases hassles. It is a massive disadvantage by international developing economy standards. Business needs the Government to provide a stable environment. Business is looking to the hon the Minister to provide a stable environment. What has the Minister delivered? A set of insubstantial labour reforms that will keep South Africa at the back of the global race for economic opportunities. [Interjections.]
The iron law of employment is this: The harder it is to fire a worker, the less likely it is he will be hired; the more job protection there is, the fewer jobs there are. Millions of our people are jobless and hungry and are willing to work for low wages, and with little security, in order to put food on their families’ plates. But the labour laws will not allow them to do so. We have many potential small businesspeople who would like to start small companies, but they cannot afford the money and the high wages, and the time and endless bureaucracy of our new labour laws.
Businesspeople need to spend their time and their hours in a factory making goods, not sitting in a labour court listening to endless legal arguments. Small businesspeople have neither the will nor the resources to fill in all the forms required, let alone do all the exhaustive personnel searches and extensive in-house training required by a zealous affirmative action programme. [Interjections.] In a letter to the Business Day, ``Fed-up Employer Lonehill’’ has the following to say:
My husband and I started our business 10 years ago and today employ about 80 people. We were full of enthusiasm and employed only unemployed people where possible, training them on the job. Sure, they may have started on a low salary, but if they were hard-working and willing, they were soon rewarded; if not, they were out.
Today I hate coming to work. All we want to do is sell our business and start something that does not require labour. We fall under a bargaining council, so wages, increases, hours, etc, are dictated to us and non- negotiable.
I spend much time on disciplinary action paperwork and stressing to managers that paperwork must be done. As I am not an HR person, we had to join a labour group whom we pay to chair our disciplinary hearings and help us implement and stay within the new legislation.
Staff, generally, are aware of their rights … and are convinced that they can no longer be fired. Were it not so difficult to get rid of staff, we would certainly employ more. Instead, we view employment of staff as an evil to be avoided at all costs …
The Minister should make it easier for an entrepreneur to start his or her own business and employ others. One avenue would be permitting customised contracts, negotiated in the presence of an official of the Department of Labour, which would waive the onerous requirements of existing labour legislation such as the Labour Relations Act. This would encourage employment and provide an income for someone who would otherwise be out of a job.
When a potential employee and a potential employer are willing to sign a voluntary contract of employment between themselves, it is immoral for a third party, such as the Government, which is supported by the trade union aristocracy, to stop them from doing so. But this is exactly what the labour laws do. [Interjections.]
In the successful modern economies such as Japan and the USA, there are a multitude of small businesses, sometimes little more than a family working in a garage supplying small industries. There is huge scope for this here in South Africa. An entrepreneur with half a dozen workers can easily set up a little factory, and they can be successful, as long as they work effectively and on time.
It is in small enterprises like these that our best hopes for making our economy grow and providing jobs lie. [Interjections.] But the little businessman cannot run with shackles around his feet, and at the moment the labour laws are shackling him. The economy must be free from unnecessary regulations. Entrepreneurs and businesswomen and businessmen must be given room to get on with the job of creating wealth and employment, and expanding the tax base.
The hon Minister of Labour should take heed of these ominous trends and the effects they are having on the everyday lives of our people. He should show the political courage and will to deliver an environment that will provide jobs for our people. [Applause.]
Mr N S MIDDLETON: Chairperson and colleagues, we in the IFP are very conscious of the challenges facing the Department of Labour. Hence we agreed with the director-general of this department when he said in his yearly report that the department had committed mistakes. We all make mistakes.
The department made mistakes during the year as it undertook innovations aimed at ensuring that we deliver our services in the best way and at the least cost possible. Challenges facing the department and the Ministry of Labour are enormous. All of them are topical considering that they are challenges of restructuring, downsizing, rationalisation and service delivery. The aim of the department, that of playing a significant role in reducing unemployment and alleviating poverty, makes these challenges even bigger if it has to satisfy the labour movement. Joblessness will always be with us if these challenges are not dealt with decisively.
The department will find a further dilemma in calming the agitated workforce and delivering on its expected role of defending the cause of Government and the workers’ rights and benefits. The visionary outlook that led to the contemplated future forums aimed at engaging the employers and workers to secure the future of their industry is a step in the right direction. The visionary attempts to mitigate the impact of retrenchments, where that is inevitable, enjoy the IFP’s full support.
In the same breath, we would like to see restructuring for the sake of our economic future. We have the workers as our constituency across political parties. Their interests are our interests. Their future is our future as well. Such interests, however, will be meaningless if the safety and occupational health of workers are not compatible with what we as public representatives do to safeguard them. I am referring here to the issue of injuries and death in the workplace.
We commend the Ministry for having increased the budget allocation in the medium term, from R79,6 million to R104,3 million to strengthen the workplace inspection campaign. I am glad that inspectors are here, as we have been told, and I hope that they will do their job.
Workers have been injured and killed while on duty. This trend should and could never be tolerated in a democratic country. The department should vigorously push forward with the inspection campaign and demand an acknowledgement from employers that investing in human resources through proper training and promotion is the main key to productivity. Employers must be made aware that workers are not just objects for getting returns on their investment at all costs, but that their health and safety are just as important as getting returns on them.
We welcome the enhancing of the administration and the placing of occupational safety and health in the workplace and in the mining industry under one Ministry of Labour rather than a fragmented approach which puts this function under different departments, as used to be the case. In this regard, injuries and death on duty will be compensated promptly and expeditiously. The outsourcing of specialised investigations or inspections will eliminate bias and improper evaluation of problems.
I want to say to the Minister that we are also concerned about the issue of the skills shortage in this country. We therefore welcome the introduction of the skills levy on employers in order to ensure the availability of skills in the workplace. In that regard, we would like to see proper inspections and closer monitoring of whether employers are actually developing the skills of their employees.
Skills courses should be qualitative rather than quantitative so as to ensure that the skilled workforce does not diminish but grows. Qualitative training courses would ensure that the skilled workforce does not diminish but grows. Such training would assure workers, even in the face of inevitable retrenchments, that they can engage in self-employment activities after retrenchment.
In the long term, this will lead to the decline in the recruitment of an external workforce. That, of course, will depend on the prompt execution of the guidelines that the Department of Labour has set itself vis-à-vis the skills development programme. We would further like to see closer collaboration between the Departments of Education, of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and of Labour.
Also, hand in hand with economic wellbeing comes industrial peace in this country. Businesspeople have to accept the fact that trade unions are here to stay. It is therefore imperative that good labour relations are developed and the principle of tripartism is upheld at all times. Government, business and trade unions have an equal share in the economy. It would be a grave mistake to try and dissipate the power of established trade unions in the country in one way or another.
The creation of political stability and economic stability should strengthen one another. Only then will our people, especially workers, actually see upward social mobility at the workplace, which will in turn enhance the quality of life and revive the economy in our country. Only then will previously disadvantaged people begin to enjoy the prize of our new democracy, for which they have waited and fought for the best part of their lives.
We believe, also, that the vigour shown by the department and the Ministry will bear the fruits that will benefit the country in general, and workers in particular. With these words, the IFP supports the Vote.
Sithi: Phambili nomzabalazo wabasebenzi! Phambili! [We say: Forward with the workers’ struggle! Forward!]
Hon MEMBERS: Phambili! [Ihlombe.] [Forward! [Applause.]]
Mr R M MOROPA: Chairperson, I just want to start off by saying to the Minister that we should not listen to what the hon Clelland said, because it is not going to help this department at all. Instead, what he said was a demonstration of a lack of understanding by him and his party of what confronts the Department of Labour in terms of what was inherited by this democratic Government. [Interjections.] We congratulate the Minister and his department on having achieved what they have planned to achieve in the previous financial year.
Ke rata go laetša dintlha di se kae mabapi le tšeo di fihleletšwego ka mo go Kgoro ya tša Mesomo. Mo lebakeng leo le fetilego, Kgoro ya tša Mešomo e ile ya ikemišetša go tiišetša bokgoni bja yona, gomme e ile ya kgona go fihlelela dintlha tšeo di latelago: Go ile gwa hlongwa tshedimošo mabapi le ditiragalo tšeo di diregago mafelong a mešomo, dipalopalo gammogo le diuniti tša dipeakanyo diprofenseng, mananego a tlhahlo ao a tlilego ka mokgwa wa tshedimošo le diseminara; matlafatšo, tshekaseko le phatlalatšo ya tshedimošo bjalo ka raporoto ya ngwaga ka ngwaga ya Unemployment Insurance Beneficiaries le yona e ile ya fihlelelwa go kaonafatša tsebo ya seo se phethagalago mafelong a mešomo naga ka bophara.
Mo ngwageng wo o fetilego go ile gwa ba le mananego ao a tseneletšego, morero e le go dira dinyakišišo mabapi le maikemišetšo a Kgoro ya tša Mešomo. Tše ka moka di kgonagetše ka lebaka la maikemišetšo le boetapele bja Tona ya Kgoro ya tša Mešomo gammogo le mokgatlo wa ANC. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[I would like to highlight a few achievements of the Department of Labour. Recently, the Department of Labour has shown its capability, and has achieved the following: Some information labour centres were established at workplaces, statistics and provincial unit structures, training programmes which were established in terms of information and seminars, empowerment, analysis and dissemination of information, such as the annual Unemployment Insurance Beneficiaries report also accessed information in regard to the information which was gathered from workplaces throughout the country.
In the past years there have been some intensive programmes, the sole aim of which was to research the policy of the Department of Labour. All this was possible because of the efforts and leadership qualities of the Minister of Labour as well as the ANC.] The library services that were introduced within these programmes, with up to date and relevant material on labour- related issues, were made available to ensure that the daily needs of the various stakeholders within the labour market are being met. We want to urge the public to utilise these services that are being provided by the ANC-led Government - I think that is what we promised in our election manifesto.
Critical to this programme was the issue of information regarding the impact of HIV/Aids on the labour market. Consequent to that, the Minister immediately released a statement stipulating a code of good practice in May
- In this statement the Minister said, and I quote:
The Department of Labour has recognised that the HIV/Aids epidemic is one of the most serious public health problems facing our country. Not only is it an epidemic which threatens the lives of individual workers and employers, but it also poses a significant threat to each and every workplace, and the effective functioning of the labour market and the national economy as a whole.
Because of the impact that HIV/Aids has on the workplace, such as absenteeism, increased accidents, loss of skills and labour, increased labour costs and a decrease in employee morale, it was quite clear that the companies which this party represents, were going to start victimising people that are HIV-positive. I think the code of good practice was aimed at ensuring that those people are protected. It stated that there will be no discrimination on the basis of HIV status and no protesting by employers, unless there is an authorisation from the Labour Court. I think that makes it clear that this Government is not going to tolerate any form of discrimination against people who are HIV-positive. I think we need to encourage people to come out in the open and give them a guarantee that they will not be rejected or victimised.
South Africa’s labour market continues to reflect divergent trends with continual weaknesses in the formal sector, contrasting with employment and income growth in the informal sector. This is a direct response to a decline in the apartheid-era restrictions, and informal economic activity. Flexible short-term contract labour has increased, and incomes in this sector have grown more rapidly than in the formal sector. The services provided by the labour market policy programme should follow such employment trends and develop policy initiatives on how the services that were meant, by and large, for the formal sector are being redirected into informal and vibrant economic activity.
In this regard, I want to request the Minister and his department to investigate the continuing restructuring in the formal sector, which, I believe, has negative consequences for Government’s comprehensive response to the HIV/Aids scourge. This is because some workers who are part of restructuring or who are passed on to independent contractors, had been receiving a particular support service from their principal employer and this service immediately got discontinued. The point here is that the outsourcing process, although it has positives and negatives, is being abused by some big companies that discontinue the services that they used to provide when they outsource and contract out some of their operations.
The formal sector is currently providing skills development, health services, welfare and social security. Is the informal sector capable of delivering such services? The answer is quite clearly no. The labour market policy programme constitutes a measure towards achieving a balance between security and flexibility, and contributes to the growth of the economy and job creation on a sustainable basis. Outsourcing work to independent contractors by the formal business sector, under the guise of international competitiveness, is already contributing to the high rate of unemployment, widespread poverty among low-wage earners and extreme levels of inequality.
As an approach to labour market policy that responds to the needs of the most vulnerable, the department must investigate, as it has been mentioned that there is a planned joint operation with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to ensure that the forestry industry complies with labour laws. We want to applaud the Minister for that initiative.
The department will realise, as a result of the fragmented nature of the labour market and the multiple problems associated with it, that further damage cannot be afforded. The forestry industry is currently a culprit in this regard. We want to urge the Minister to move swiftly in investigating the outcomes of the outsourcing exercises in this industry, because the conditions of the employees are becoming less favourable than they were when they were still in the employ of the principal employer.
To reverse the failures of the apartheid labour market we require an integrated and coherent socioeconomic strategy, such as that advanced by the Reconstruction and Development Programme. The rapid growth of subcontracting labour brokers and independent contractors is beginning to expose the fact that labour regulations may be too flexible and that there is a need for more enforcement. The result of outsourcing is the recomposition of the workforce into insecure, casual and temporary workers with little access to benefits, unions or effective minimum standards. Such a situation requires the urgent attention of the provincial service delivery system.
In conclusion, I would like to remind the private sector that gender inequality in their managerial and professional strata remains a hindrance to the transformation and democratisation of our labour market. We wish the department success in implementing the 15-point programme of action and call on all South Africans to join the President in his call for ``unity in action for change’’. The ANC fully supports the Vote. [Applause.]
Mr A BLAAS: Chairperson, we clearly noticed the uniform of the hon the Minister, and when he indicated to us that he was an inspector, I was afraid that he would start singing Leon Schuster’s song, whose lyrics go something like this: ``I am an inspector, and I have a badge.’’ [Interjections.]
There are a few things that I picked up from the hon the Minister’s speech that I would like to address. Firstly, there it is the issue of the Unemployment Insurance Fund. The UIF has built up an unrecoverable debt, and it is technically insolvent - that is a known fact. Indications are that at the end of March 2001, the UIF owed the Department of Labour an amount of R244,6 million. The only available money to cover this debt is an amount of R7 million provided for in the budget of the Department. There is no chance that the UIF will be able to repay the department. Therefore, how is the Minister going to recover these funds?
Arising out of the problems with the UIF, the Minister tabled the new Unemployment Insurance Bill, of which the main reforms proposed seek to address some shortcomings in the current legislation. The thrust of the Bill is to make the fund financially viable. What is of concern is that no reliable actuarial calculations normally required in setting up insurance funds exist to support the reform measures intended to make the fund viable. Even the department is in doubt.
In the explanatory memorandum to the Bill, it is stated that after 2002 the state will not be called upon to contribute to or even guarantee the fund. On the other hand, provision is made in the budget under medium-term expenditure for the transfer of R7 million to the fund until 2004. If the Department of Labour doubts the success of their own proposed legislation, it would be difficult for us to support the Bill. The financial viability of the new fund must be based on sound actuarial calculations. With negative growth in jobs and job opportunities, even more challenges will be faced by the fund.
Talking about unemployment, I would like to pick up on a few other things. The need for growth has already been stated. To achieve this, we need a common goal to which all South Africans can aspire. It must form the basis on which Government, business, organised labour and civil society can justly conduct actions and make decisions.
We as South Africans must make the commitment to the initiatives set up to position this country as the only emerging market for both domestic and international investors. This is the vision of the hon the President. To be able to achieve this, many actions must be taken, some in the labour environment, which can be listed as follows: We must stop the brain drain; we need increased labour-market flexibility; transformation must be done incrementally, in step with the constraints of our society; we should not try to fix everything that is wrong in South Africa all at once; the skills development programmes must be needs-driven and fast-tracked and job retention should be enhanced.
Die vraag is hoe presteer ons in antwoord op sommige van dié behoeftes. Die eerste vraag handel oor die program van vaardigheidsontwikkeling wat behoeftegedrewe moet wees. Ons weet die departement doen baie ten opsigte van dié programme. Daar is wette op die Wetboek, daar is toegewysde geld, soveel as R400 miljoen wat beskikbaar sal kom vir dié doel, daar is verskeie strukture beskikbaar en daar is reeds baie navorsing en beplanning gedoen.
Die departement se talle suksesse blyk uit die jaarverslag. Wat ons egter in die verslag wil sien, is in watter mate die programme aan die behoeftes van die mark voldoen en watter gekwantifiseerde waarde die Regering daaruit kry. Die afleiding wat uit die verslag gemaak word, is dat daar ‘n lomp burokrasie geskep is en ons weet nie presies wat die kwantifiseerbare resultate is waarna dié burokrasie moet streef nie. Ons wil graag sien wat die land se behoefte in spesifieke vaardighede en sektore is om dié groeikoers te steun.
Verder wil ons ook weet watter sukses opleiding behaal het, aangepas vir ‘n groeikoers oor die medium termyn en in watter mate aan hierdie behoeftes voldoen is. Daar kan ook nie uit die verslag afgelei word watter waarde die heffingbetalers toegeval het of wat die impak op produktiwiteit was nie.
Die agb Minister het aangedui dat 15% van die mense wat opgelei is wel in die arbeidsmark teruggeplaas is. Die Minister het melding gemaak van die beoogde wysigings aan die arbeidswet. Een van die vereistes wat ons stel, is dat die arbeidsmark aanpasbaar moet wees en dat wette nie rigied moet wees nie.
Die Minister het gesê die wetgewing moet nou afgehandel word en ons kan nie met hom verskil nie. Die proses sloer te lank en die tyd vir dié wetgewing is reeds verstreke. Ek sou graag by die Minister wou hoor wat sy beoogde sperdatums vir die afhandeling van die werk is. Dit moet ongetwyfeld spoedig wees, maar ek wil graag weet wanneer hy beoog om die wysigings op die wette finaal op die Wetboek te hê.
‘n Ander aspek waaraan ons aandag moet skenk, is dat die departement sensitief moet wees vir die impak wat regulasies en burokratiese voorskrifte op die kostestruktuur van klein- en mediumondernemings het. Daar bestaan talle voorbeelde hiervan. Dit lei daartoe dat ondernemings nie op hul opbrengs kan oorleef nie. In sulke gevalle is dit beter om die ondernemings te sluit en die geld te belê. Dit het ‘n negatiewe invloed op werkgeleenthede en, soos ons weet, lê ons ekonomiese groei en werkskepping in die klein- en mediumgrootte ondernemings. Ons het ook inligting oor die kernprestasies van die Direktoraat: Arbeidsverhoudinge in die jaarverslag gemis. Die agb Minister het wel gesê daar was ‘n afname in stakings en ook ‘n afname in die verlies aan werk-ure as gevolg van stakings. Wat ons egter ook in die verslag wou lees, is hoeveel van dié stakings regstreeks aan arbeid gekoppel kan word, hoeveel betrekking op dispute in die werkplek het en hoeveel stakings hoegenaamd niks met die werkomgewing te doen het nie. Stakings het ‘n negatiewe uitwerking op ons ekonomie en kan moontlik as ekonomiese sabotasie gedefinieer word. Stakings het ook ‘n invloed op die regte van die gewone onskuldige landsburgers wat in dié sektor sake doen.
Ek wil ook aandag skenk aan menslike hulpbronne en die behoud daarvan. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The question is how we are doing in response to some of these requirements. The first question deals with the skills development programme that should be needs-driven. We know that the department is doing a great deal in respect of these programmes. There are Acts on the Statute Book, money - as much as R400 million - has been allocated that is going to be made available for this purpose, there are various structures available and a great deal of research and planning has already taken place.
The department’s many successes are apparent from the annual report. However, what we would like to see in the annual report is to what extent the programmes comply with the requirements of the market and what quantified value the Government will gain from them. The deduction that can be made from the report is that a clumsy bureaucracy has been created and that we do not know exactly what the quantified results are that this bureaucracy should strive to achieve. We would like to see what the requirements of the country are in respect of specific skills and sectors to support this growth rate.
Furthermore we would also like to know what success training has had, adjusted to a growth rate over the medium term, and to what extent these requirements were met. Nor can one deduce from the report what value accrued to the payers of the levy or what the impact on productivity was.
The hon the Minister indicated that 15% of the people who had been trained were in fact placed back in the labour market. The Minister made mention of the envisaged amendments to labour legislation. One of our requirements is that the labour market should be adaptable and that laws should not be rigid.
The Minister said the legislation should now be completed and we cannot disagree with him. The process has already been dragging on for too long and the time for this legislation has already expired. I would like to hear from the Minister what his envisaged cut-off dates are for the completion of the work. It must undoubtedly be soon, but I would like to know when he envisages finally having the laws on the Statute Book.
Another aspect to which we must give attention is that the department must be sensitive to the impact that regulations and bureaucratic prescriptions have on the cost structure of small and medium enterprises. There are many examples of this. This is the cause of enterprises being unable to survive on their turnover. In such cases it is better to close down the enterprises and invest the money. This has a negative effect on job opportunities and, as we know, our economic growth and job creation depend on the small and medium enterprises. We also missed information on the key achievements of the Directorate: Labour Relations in the annual report. The hon the Minister in fact said that there was a decline in strikes and also a reduction in the loss of working hours owing to strikes. What we would also have liked to read in the report, however, is how many of these strikes could be linked directly to labour, how many involved disputes in the workplace and how many strikes had absolutely nothing to do with the working environment. Strikes have a negative impact on our economy and could possibly be defined as economic sabotage. Strikes also have an effect on the rights of the ordinary innocent citizens of the country that do business in this sector.
I would also like to give attention to human resources and their retention. [Time expired.]]
Muf: T E ḼISHIVHA: Mudzulatshidulo, Minisiṱa dzoṱhe na Miraḓo yoṱhe ya Buthano ḽa Lushaka yo rangwaho phanḓa nga Phuresidennde Vho-Thabo Mbeki, zwine ṋamusi ra amba ngazwo, ndi zwithu zwine a si zwiswa kha riṋe, ngauri ndi kale ri tshi zwi ḓivha zwauri vhathu vha hashu vho vha vha sa khou sumbedzwa nḓila dzine vha fanela u shuma ngadzo mishumoni yavho. U fana na mabulisini na vhashumeli vhane vha ri thusa miṱani yashu.
Ndi ngazwo musi Phuresidennde Vho-Thabo Mbeki musi vha tshi vula Buthano ḽa Lushaka vho amba vha ri ri fanela u ṱuṱuwedza uri ri shele mulenzhe kha pfunzo ya vhashumi ri sa sedzi uri ndi ngafhi kana ngafhi na nga u shuma na u gudisa vhashumi vha muvhuso nga u ita uri vhashumi vha kone u khwinifhadza pfunzo dzavho nga u guda vha mishumoni.
Arali ra sedza hezwi zwoṱhe, ndi zwithu zwine zwa khou ḓiswa nga Muvhuso une wa khou vhusa zwino wa ANC, ngauralo Muhasho wa Zwamishumo wo ḓa na nḓila ine wa humbela uri vhoramabindu vha shele mulenzhe kha pfunzo ya vhashumi. Arali ra humbula uri vhathu vha hashu vho tambula hani nga u shuma vha si na nḓivho, vho vha vha tshi huvhala mishumoni nga u sokou pfi vha shume matomboni vha songo ambara zwithu zwine vha fanela u zwi ambara. Ndi ngazwo zwi tshi khou kombetshedza uri vhathu vha vhe na nḓivho na ndalukanyo ya mishumo ine vha khou shuma yone.
Arali ra sedza ra sedza ri khou uri Muvhuso wo fhiraho wo kundwa u ita hezwi zwithu. Mulayo vho u ita nga ṅwaha wa 1981 u swika nga ṅwaha wa 1985, fhedzi a vha ngo vha na zwe vha bveledzisa. Hezwi Muvhuso wa vhathu wo rangwaho phanḓa nga Phuresidennde Thabo Mbeki u tshi dzhia maanḓa wo vha u na u vhonela phanḓa ngauri roṱhe ri a zwi ḓivha zwauri Muvhuso wa ANC ndi wa vhathu. Ndi ngazwo ri tshi vha na luambo lwa uri vhutshilo ha khwine kha vhathu vhoṱhe.
Ho mbo ḓi thomiwa mulayo wa South African Qualifications Authority Act of 1995, Skills Development Act of 1998 na Skills Development Levies Act of
- (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms T E ḼISHIVHA: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, under the leadership of President Thabo Mbeki, what we are discussing today is not something new. It is well known that our people did not know what the proper channels were to follow in their work places. The same applies to farm workers and domestic workers.
That is why President Thabo Mbeki, in his state of the nation address, indicated that employers must participate in the education of their employees, irrespective of where the person works. All public servants must also be trained in order to improve their education while working.
All these wonders were made possible by the ANC-led Government. The Department of Labour came up with a plan in which it requested businesspeople to participate in this education. Our people used to suffer because they worked without proper skills and knowledge. They used to get hurt while working in stony areas without protective clothing. That is why it is vital that people should have knowledge and skills regarding the work that they perform.
The previous apartheid government failed to do all these things. This Act was passed in 1981, but developed nothing. When the democratic Government led by President Thabo Mbeki came into power, it had a vision. We are aware that the ANC-led Government is the people’s Government. That is why we say, a better life for all!
The South African Qualifications Authority Act of 1995, the Skills Development Act of 1998 and the Skills Development Levies Act of 1999 were passed.]
These three Acts highlight the promotion of development and the insuring of quality in education and training.
Nga ṅwaha wa 1999, ho thomiwa LMSDP. Zwiwanwa zwa hone zwo vha na ndeme. Zwiṅwe zwa vhuṱhogwa zwo sumbedzea nga ṅwaha wa 2000 musi hu tshi vha na SETA dzo no lingana 27. Ho bveledzwa na pulane dza mivhuso ya mavunḓu.
Ho do talatadzwa na nḓila dzine dza nga shumiswa kha miṅwaha miṱanu iḓaho. Ho ḓo thomiwa foramu dza vhugudisi kha mavunḓu. U sumbedza uri Muvhuso wa ANC na Muhasho wa zwa Mishumo, zwi khou shuma zwi tshi ḓa kha vhugudisi na ndalukanyo, ṋamusi vho kona u fara vhathu vhavhili vhe vha ita vhuaḓa nga masheleni ane a fanela u shuma kha vhugudisi, vhone vho a shumisela khonani dzavho, mashaka na huṅwe ho fhambananaho.
Arali ra sedza ṅwaha wa 2000-01, Phalamennde yo vhea masheleni a linganaho R100 miḽioni ya u gudisa vhathu vha si na mishumo. Vhagudisi vha linganaho 50, vho gudisa fhethu hu linganaho 572 na vhathu vha 54, hu no gudelwa hone. Arali ra sedza, ho vha hu tshi khou gudisiwa zwithu zwo fhambananaho. Vhathu vha hashu vho vha vha sa zwi ḓivhi uri hu a swika tshifhinga tshine muthu musi a na vhuleme a fanela u ya fhethu hune a nga khuthadziwa hone, u fana na hune vhathu vha eletshedzwa hone. Muhasho wa zwa Mishumo, wo zwi ita uri hu vhe na fhethu hune ha gudeliwa hone, uri musi ri kha mishumo hu tshi swika tshifhinga tshine vhathu vha fhungudziwa, vhathu vha kone u wana ngeletshedzo.
Ho mbo ḓi thomiwa na sekithara dza 24 dza vhugudisi. Pulane dza 10 dza vhugudiswa ha vunḓu na dzone dzo ṱanganedzwa. Hezwi zwoṱhe, zwi itwa nga tshumisano ngauri, arali ra sa tikedza zwi ḓo ri konḓela, zwa dovha hafhu zwa ri dzhiela tshifhinga. Kha ri tende uri a si ANC i yoṱhe yo yaho ya galatsha vhathu nga tshifhinga tsha khetho. Madzangano oṱhe o vhudza vhathu ari a ḓo vha itela zwithu zwo fhambananaho. Musi ri tshi ḓa kha nyito, ri wana ho sedziwa ANC i yoṱhe Madzangano mahanedzi a dovha a vha one ano hana hafhu u tikedza ANC uri ri ise zwithu vhathuni.
Ndi ngazwo ANC na ṋamusi i sa shavhi u ya vhathuni. Hezwi hu tshi gudiswa vhathu, hu gudiswa na vharangaphanḓa. Nga ṅwaha wa 2000, ho gudiswa zwiṱafu zwo ṱangana na Indlela, vha ita 350. Arali ra sedza Indlela, ndivho ya yo ndi u engedza zwishumiswa na u dalela fhethu hune ha gudeliwa hone u ya nga u fhambana na uri, ha vha vhane vha kha ḓi vha kha vhugudisi ha kale, na vhone vha bvele phanḓa nga ngudo dzavho.
Nḓila dzoṱhe dzo tevhelwa musi hu tshi khou lwiwa na uri hu vhe na vhugudisi na nḓivho. Arali ra sedza Mpumalanga sa tsumbo, ho no vha na fhethu ho raloho nga fhasi ha ndambedzo ya Netherland. Arali ra tikedza Muvhuso kha zwine wa khou thusa vhathu ngazwo, zwi ḓo ri lelutshela ngauri arali ra sedza, ro no vha na vhathu vha no lingana 2 000 vhe vha dzhenelela kha maguvhangano a vhugudisi na nḓivho, ha dovha hafhu ha vha na vhathu vha 1 400 vhe vha ḓivhonadza henefho.
Uri ri kone u ṱuṱuwedza izwi zwithu, ri nga ita mini? U ṱuṱuwedza na u tikedza mvelaphanḓa na ṱhoḓisiso, u engedza tshivhalo tsha vhorasaintsi na thusa yavho. Muvhuso u khou ṱoḓa u vhona vho ramishumo vha tshi ṱuṱuwedza na u shela mulenzhe kha pfunzo ya vhashumi. Nga u khwinifhadza nḓivho ya vhathu malugana na mvelephanḓa ya tshitshavha, u ita uri vhashumi vha kone u khwinifhadza pfunzo dzavho nga u guda vhe mishumoni.
Vhoramabindu vhaṱuku kha vha khwinifhadze nḓivho dzavho. Ra sedza nga ṅwaha wa 2000 nga ṅwedzi wa Luhuhi, South African Revenue Service yo kona u wana uri vhatholi vho ḓiṅwalisa kha Skills Development Levies Act. U bva nga ṅwedzi wa Fulwi, nga ṅwaha wa 2000, ro ḓo kona u vhona uri skills development levies i vho iswa kha muhasho ṅwedzi muṅwe na muṅwe. Fhedzi ri songo hangwa uri hezwi zwoṱhe, zwo itwa nga Muvhuso wa ANC wo rangwaho phanḓa nga Phuresinnde Vho-Thabo Mbeki.
Ra sedza zwino, khamphani dzi linganaho 60% dzo ḓiṅwalisa nahone dzi no lingana 40% dzi kha ḓi sedzuluswa. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.) [In 1999, the LMSDP was started. Its findings were extremely important. Some of its important functions were already visible by 2000, when we had 27 Setas. Provincial plans were also developed.
They drew up the plans which will be used in the next five years. Provincial training forums were started. To show that the ANC-led Government and the Department of Labour are working, as far as skills and training are concerned, today they managed to arrest two people who were involved in corruption. These people took the money which was earmarked for training people and used it to entertain their friends, their relatives and themselves.
If we look at the years 2000-02, Parliament put aside R100 million to help train the unemployed. Fifty teachers trained 572 people at 54 training centres. People learned various things. Our people were not aware that when they have problems they can go for counselling. The Department of Labour has made it possible for there to be places where they can go for counselling when they have lost their jobs.
Twenty-four training centres were established. Ten plans for provincial training were also accepted. All this was made possible by working together, because if we are not supportive, it will be time-consuming and, thus, difficult. Let us agree that it was not the ANC alone which campaigned during the elections, but all organisations promised the people that they would do a variety of things for them. When it comes to delivery, they expect the ANC to do it alone. Opposition parties do not want to support the ANC in bringing services to the people.
That is why the ANC is not afraid to go to the people today. When people are trained, leaders must also be trained. Last year, a total of 350 staff members, together with Indlela, were trained. If we look at Indlela, its aim is to increase the equipment and to visit different training centres, so that those who are still using old training methods, can improve on them.
Different methods were used while they where trying to bring knowledge and training. For example, if we can look at Mpumalanga, they now have such a place with the assistance of the Netherlands. If we support the Government in its endeavour to help the people, it will be easy for us because we now have 2 000 people who are participating in training and skills seminars. Up to now 1 400 have shown up.
What must we do to encourage these things? We must encourage, support, develop, and investigate in order to increase the number of scientists and their assistance. The Government wants to see employers encouraging and participating in the education of their employees by improving their knowledge with regard to their development of the community.
Young entrepreneurs should improve their knowledge. In February last year, the South African Revenue Service found that some employers were, at least, registered in accordance with the Skills Development Levies Act. We found out that since July last year skills development levies have been taken to the department on a monthly basis. We must not forget that all these things were made possible by the ANC Government, led by President Thabo Mbeki.
Currently, 60% of companies are now registered, and 40% are still being investigated.]
The skills levy revenue is collected between April and August. The Skills Development Act will ensure that companies train their employees. Companies will soon feel the effects of having trained and stimulated their staff. If companies invest in their staff by giving them the correct and applicable training, the returns gained can be astronomical.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member. Hon Hangana?
Ms N E HANGANA: Chairperson, we are trying to follow the hon member’s speech, but I think that the area that needs to be improved is the translation. The translation is very bad.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon Hangana. I notice that the translation is very poor in this regard. I think the table will assist me in doing something. [Interjections.]
Hon Lishivha, you still had about two minutes left to speak when you were disturbed. Oh, you are finished. Okay. Then your speaking time has expired. [Applause.] Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, the aim and key objective of the Department of Labour is to play a significant role in the reduction of unemployment …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, you are making a noise. Can you please lower your voices?
Mr M N RAMODIKE: Mr Chairperson, the aim and key objective of the Department of Labour is to play a significant role in the reduction of unemployment, poverty and inequality, in conjunction with other role- players in the workplace. The Department’s total expenditure outcome for the financial years 1997-98, 1998-99 and 1999-2000 for the realisation of skills development and job creation and as central tenets of Government’s socioeconomic strategy, amounts to R669 645 million, including the adjusted appropriation for 2001.
Ka lebaka leo, UDM e tla thekga polelo ya gago, Mohlomphegi Tona, polelo ya maikemišetšo a go hlola dibaka tša mešomo. [Therefore, the UDM would like to support the Minister’s initiatives in respect of job creation.]
The UDM wants to know, however, from the hon the Minister how many job opportunities his department has, in conjunction with all other Government departments, created over these past years?
The department’s 15 point programme of action for 1999 up to 2004, identifies job creation as the biggest challenge facing the Government. The Department of Labour co-ordinates Government’s role in the follow-up to the Jobs Summit. The Jobs Summit reached an agreement on a social plan launched by the hon the Minister during July 1999, which encompasses phases of intervention, namely avoiding job losses through, inter alia, future forums between workers and employers about the future of their industry and to identify threats to jobs timeously.
The UDM wants to know from the hon the Minister how many jobs were saved in both the private and the public sectors during the 1999-2000 financial year through the Jobs Summit social plan agreement. What were the achievements of the provincial offices of the department which were approached for services in mitigating the impact of retrenchments on workers. How many of these provincial offices took steps to regenerate local economies where retrenched workers reside?
The labour movement continues to criticise Government on the privatisation of public enterprises, which is said to be a direct cause of job losses. The UDM requests the department to provide statistical information on jobs lost as a result of privatisation of public enterprises in order to have a clear picture of the concerns of the labour movement. In terms of policy development, Cabinet recently approved the creation of a single statute in respect of occupational health and safety and for compensation competencies, in order to integrate the fragmented functions and responsibilities which are presently entrusted to the Departments of Health, of Labour and of Minerals and Energy.
It is irreconcilable to note that the Departments of Health and of Minerals and Energy continue to provide for the promotion of safety and health in terms of the 2001 estimates of national expenditure. In spite of this Cabinet decision, it is alarming to note that medical expenses of Government officials paid by the compensation fund increased from R7 931 million to R16 467 million, and account for average programme growth of 7,8% a year over the seven-year period, as indicated in the item Expenditure.
I agree with the Minister that legislation aimed at strengthening the administration of the fund, minimisation of fraud and implementing an effective credit agreement should be put in place as a matter of urgency. In view of the proposed Unemployment Insurance Fund, the UDM proposes that domestic and seasonal workers should be included in the Act.
Ke rata go thekga kgopolo le kgopelo ya Mohlomphegi Morena Blade Nzimande wa SACP ya gore mmušo o fetiše molao wa go matlafatša dikoporase le dipanka tša setšhaba gore bašomi ba kgone go holega. Ke kwana le yena gape gore panka ya tlhabollo ya Borwa bja Africa, Land Bank, Khula Post Bank le IDT di bulele bašomi mabati a menyako a tšona. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[I would like to support the idea and the appeal by the hon Mr Blade Nzimande of the SACP that the Government should pass the legislation to strengthen corporations and the National Bank, so that workers could benefit. I also agree with him that the Development Bank, the Land Bank, the Khula Post Bank and the IDT, should open these doors for their workers.]
Employer organisations, the labour movement and civil society noted with keen interest a survey which was conducted by Statistics SA in co-operation with the International Programme on the Elimination of Child Labour, which is part of the International Labour Organisation. The involvement of the Department in the establishment of provincial structures of child labour intersectoral groups was well received. The biggest problem, however, is that the practice of child labour continues unabated, especially on the farms. The UDM proposes that trade unions, employer associations and civil society organisations should all be involved in the elimination of child labour, in conjunction with the department’s child labour monitoring intersectoral groups.
Mohlomphegi Tona, go rwala bašomi ba dipolasa ka morago ga difatanaga tšeo di bulegilego, tša go swana le dilori le diterekere go swanetšwe go elwa hloko. Go a hlobaetša go lemoga gore ge dipula di ena, le moya e tšutla, basomi ba rwalwa ka dikoloi tše bjalo, tš eo okarego ke diphoofolo goba mašole.
Ke a go leboga, setšhaba se nyaka mošomo go wena mohlomphegi, Tona ya Mmešomo, gomme se re, o re fe mešomo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Minister, attention could be given to the practice of transporting workers in the back of vehicles like trucks and tractors. It is saddening to realise that during the rainy season or in windy conditions, farmworkers are being transported in such vehicles as if they are animals or soldiers. I would like to thank the Minister. The nation is eagerly awaiting jobs from him and the Minister of Public Works. They are asking for jobs.]
Mong M J G MZONDEKI: Modulasetulo, ke motlotlo ho nka karolo kganng yena ya tsatsi lena. Ke kena kganng yena ke nahana hore le nna ke tla ba le seabo. Puo ya ka tsatsing lena e tla ikamahanya le tshireletseho ya basebetsi dibakeng tsa mesebetsi, e leng le leng la mananeo a Lefapha la tsa Mesebetsi. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[Mr M J G MZONDEKI: Chairperson, I am proud to take part in today’s debate. I am entering this debate, thinking that I will also make a contribution. My input today will be based on the safety of workers in the workplace, which is one of the programmes of the Department of Labour.]
I want to join this debate remembering the many casualties of unsafe working conditions inside and outside of work. I want to remember the casualties of the Lenasia incident, the recent incident at Beatrix mine and many others that people are aware of. Many people have lost their lives in about 600 workplace fatalities in the past five years. Many were left incapacitated with no alternative occupations, either surviving on state grants or some small pension for those who were lucky enough to be registered and covered for injuries on duty.
Even though some of the victims could still make a contribution and earn an income, the lack of commitment by employers to rehabilitate and retrain such employees for re-entry into the labour market, has made it difficult. I am happy that the hon the Minister has recently launched a draft code of good practice on key aspects of disability in the workplace.
I want to caution that this code must, however, not be used to relax our efforts to promote healthy and safe workplaces. It must serve to prevent unfair discrimination against those who are injured through or in unavoidable circumstances. The impact of unsafe and unhealthy working conditions on production is enormous. An estimated figure of R17 billion in 1996 alone was spent as a result of occupational accidents, and that was about 3,5% of GDP.
As the hon the Minister mentioned, the countrywide inspection blitz undertaken recently revealed that noncompliance is a major contributor to accidents. Employers either do not know their obligations, or they ignore them and prioritise profits at the expense of the workers’ lives. Workers also seem to be ignorant of their right to a safe and healthy working environment.
The primary function of occupational health and safety is to promote the health and safety of people in the workplace. The department is thus committed to improving inspections and investigations at workplaces. It is committed to a restructured inspectorate service. An integrated inspectorate and enforcement service is in place.
The new model replaces the old one, in which the department had three inspection services, each specialising in either labour ralations or occupational health and safety, and compliance with unemployment services. The new integrated model multiskills inspectors and ensures that there is a one-stop service. This is in compliance with the ANC’s commitment to bring services closer to the people. According to the Department of Labour’s annual report of 2000, the implementation of this model is yielding good results. For the year 2000, 10 060 inspections were conducted, as against a target of 6 408, and we are on course.
We do understand, however, that there will be problems during this process, as is always the case with transformation. There will be those who want to convince us that this model is not working, simply because they are comfortable to be specialists and idle when there is no other work for their area of specialisation. There will be those who just do not believe in change, especially if it benefits the majority of the people who have been suffering. But that is what the ANC is committed to - a change for a better life for all.
There are still challenges facing us in this area. One of them is the poaching of inspectors. The low remuneration of staff by the Department of Labour makes it difficult to attract and retain skilled staff. The Department of Labour operated at an inspector vacancy rate of 47% in the year 2000. But I am still happy about the good job that has been done by the inspectors. It is unfortunate that I cannot see them. I am told that they are up there in the gallery.
The other challenge is that occupational health and safety has no jurisdiction in other areas of employment, such as on mines, line ships, fishing boats and within the general public affected through work-related activities. These areas fall within other inspectorates. The department has, however, initiated co-operative governance in this regard. A forum has been established in which the Department of Labour and the Department of Minerals and Energy meet regularly. Meetings are also held with other departments, such as the Departments of Health and of Environmental Affairs. The purpose of this initiative is to try and harmonise legislation in this regard, as well as to minimise duplication of services where possible. We believe, as the ANC, that this will go a long way towards addressing the question of health and safety.
The health and safety issue is not the sole responsibility of the Government. There will never be enough inspectors to ensure that there are no accidents caused by negligence and noncompliance. In his speech at the launch of the occupational heath and safety awareness campaign in March 2001, the hon the Minister had this to say, and I quote:
Today we witness the first steps being taken towards the development of a common vision amongst the three critical social partners in the occupational health and safety arena - a common vision which I am optimistic will, in the not too distant future, see labour, business and Government declare, on a public platform, a collective commitment to ensure that occupational health and safety in the workplace receives the priority it deserves.
Ke rata ho phephetsa basebetsi, ka ho re ba etse ka matla hore Dikomiti tsa Tshireletso, di be teng dibakeng tsa mesebetsi. Ba matlafatse Dikomiti tseo le baemedi ka ho nka karolo mananeong a Dikomiti a ho hlahisa basebetsi leseding ka tshireletso mesebetsing le ho totobatsa ditokelo tsa basebetsi tsa ho sebetsa dibakeng tse sireletsehileng.
Ha maemo a tshireletseho a mpefala, le maemo a bona a bophelo a mpefala, ka ha moruo o a ameha, eba bahiri ba qetella ba kwetse dibaka tsa mosebetsi kapa ba qobelleha ho etsa jwalo. Mohlala wa sena ke ho kwalwa ha mmaene wa Beatrice.
Tlaleho e bontsha hore 2,4% ya dikotsi ke dikotsi tse bakwang ke mahloko. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[I would like to encourage workers, to ensure that they have safety committees in workplaces. They should strengthen those committees and their representatives by taking part in the committees’ programmes relating to safety at work, and clarifying the right of workers to safe workplaces.
If safety conditions are not up to standard, then their lives are also not what they should be, because the economy is also affected and employers are then forced to close down places of work. An example of this is the closure of the Beatrix mine.
Reports show that 2,4% of accidents are caused by ill health.]
We need to ensure that this figure does not escalate. Therefore it is important that the three critical role-players, namely labour, business and Government, must declare war on unsafe and hazardous working conditions. I appeal to all the public representatives in this House to commit themselves and join the three stakeholders in ensuring that our programmes include monitoring health and safety issues wherever we are. Too many people have died and too many have been left incapacitated.
The ANC supports this Vote. [Applause.]
Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairman, please excuse my voice. Having heard the grandiloquent twaddle by my ex-teacher, the Minister, I am persuaded still to challenge him on the issue of unemployment. I would like to acknowledge that he has done a lot to ameliorate the adversarial relationships that have existed in the labour market. However, the Minister stated that he has shifted from policy-making to policy implementation. I would suggest that he shift back to policy-making on the following issue: the Ministry has to answer the recurrent question of what it can do within its power to encourage economic growth and job creation.
The issue of the degree of unemployment can no longer be determined through disputed statistics. It is a matter easily determinable, because by simply walking out of the parliamentary precinct one would see many unemployed people in the street. So, as long as unemployment is rampant, this challenge remains with the Ministry.
The President gave a hint of the probable direction the Ministry and the entire executive should take when he mentioned the fact that he would like to attract more investment by reducing the cost of labour, without compromising safety and minimum living conditions. I have yet to see what the economic cluster has planned, or the strategy it intends to implement, to execute the directive that the President stated here before us. So my view is that, as long as unemployment persists, the Ministry has not discharged one of its major functions. Nonetheless, having said so, I support the Vote.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, die sprekerslys wat ek in besit het, lui anders.
Die agb Minister van Arbeid sê: ``We are on course. The amendments are coming’’, maar ek wil vir die agb lede sê die agb Minister het verlede jaar in Augustus by Beeld Forum gepraat en tóé reeds gesê die einde van die jaar 2000 was die spertyd vir amendemente en wysigings aan die arbeidswette. Nou wil ek vir hierdie agb Minister die volgende sê: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairman, the speakers’ list I have reads differently.
The hon the Minister of Labour says: ``We are on course. The amendments are coming’’, but I want to say to hon members that the hon the Minister spoke at Beeld Forum in August last year, and said at that stage already that the end of the year 2000 was the cut-off date for amendments and changes to the labour legislation. Now I want to say the following to this hon Minister:]
He is on course; the amendments are coming. However, last year they were coming, but Christmas came. I want to say to the hon the Minister that Christmas is also coming this year.
Die agb Minister verwys na die racism of the past'', maar ek wil vir hom
sê die wet oor gelyke indiensneming, die sogenaamdeaffirmative action’’,
diskrimineer veral teen jong, blanke mense. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die jongmense
was nie deel van apartheid nie. Die blankes wat huidig universiteite
bywoon, en wat binnekort die arbeidsmark betree, was nie deel van apartheid
nie. Sommige van hulle het nog nie eens gestem nie.
Indien die agb Minister die natuurlike proses ooreenkomstig meriete sou gevolg het, sal dit beteken dat die ekonomiese groeikoers in Suid-Afrika ongeveer 9% sou moes wees om sy doelwit van ‘n 80% swart werksmag te bereik. Dit is egter op die oomblik tussen 2% en 3%. Die agb Minister sê slegs 7% van die bestuurskader bestaan uit swartmense.
Kom ons gaan dan na die grondvlak van die werkers toe. Kom ons vat die myne in Suid-Afrika. Wat is die samestelling in die laer echelons van die werkersklas? Daar kom blankes nie ter sprake nie, maar dan gee die Regering en die agb Minister nie om of daar diskriminasie is teen ons jong blanke mense nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The hon the Minister refers to the racism of the past, but I want to say to him that the Act on employment equity, the so-called ``affirmative action’’, discriminates in particular against young white people. [Interjections.] The young people were not part of apartheid. The whites who are at present at universities and who will shortly be entering the labour market were not part of apartheid. Some of them have not even voted yet.
If the hon the Minister had followed the natural process according to merit it would mean that the economic growth rate in South Africa would have had to be approximately 9% to reach his target of a 80% black labour force. However, at the moment it is between 2% and 3%. The hon the Minister says only 7% of the management cadre consists of blacks.
Let us go to the workers at grass-roots level. Let us look at the mines in South Africa. What is the composition in the lower echelons of the working class? Here whites do not come into the picture, but, then again, the Government and the hon the Minister do not care if there is discrimination against our young white people.]
The hon Minister refers to the racism of the past, but he and his colleagues in the ANC Government are busy with the racism of the future.
‘n AGB LID: Ag, twak!
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Dit is die waarheid, en ek weet die waarheid maak gewoonlik seer.
Maar ek moet darem vir die agb Minister sê dat hy so bietjie ‘n verandering ondergaan het in terme van arbeidswetgewing. Die agb Minister dra daardie blou hoed nie omdat hy kwansuis wil sê hy is ‘n inspekteur nie, hy kan nie op straat verskyn nie, want hy is bang hulle slaan hom oor die kop. Dit is hoekom hy ‘n veiligheidshoed moet dra.
Die agb Minister bring veranderings aan, maar al kom hy met veranderings, die sakeondernemings is besig om toe te maak. Kelvinator in Alberton is gelikwideer. Ongeveer 1 200 werkgeleenthede is daarmee heen. Waverley Blankets in Oos-London in die provinsie waar hulle sê 80% van die mense ly aan hongersnood, het verlede jaar in November sy fabrieke begin toemaak en hy gaan na Botswana toe. Dit is ongeveer 1 000 werkgeleenthede wat daarmee heen is.
Hierso in Kaapstad verklaar die media die personeelbesnoeiings by BMD Textiles as volg: ``Labour laws blamed for rag trade job cuts’’.
Die agb Minister moet begin beweeg. Hy moet doen wat hy sê. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[An HON MEMBER: Oh, nonsense!
Mr P J GROENEWALD: It is the truth, and I know that the truth usually hurts.
But I do want to tell the hon the Minister that he has changed a little in respect of labour legislation. The hon the Minister is not wearing that blue hat because he is suggesting that he is an inspector, he cannot appear in public, because he is afraid they will hit him over the head. That is why he has to wear a safety helmet.
The hon the Minister is effecting changes, but even if he comes up with changes, businesses are closing down. Kelvinator in Alberton has been liquidated. Approximately 1 200 job opportunities have been lost. Waverley Blankets in East London, in the province in which they say 80% of the people are starving, started closing its factories in November last year and is moving to Botswana. That is approximately 1 000 job opportunities that have been lost.
Here in Cape Town the media has explained the retrenchment of staff at BMD Textiles as follows: ``Labour laws blamed for rag trade job cuts’’.
The hon the Minister has to start moving. He must put his money where his mouth is.]
Talk is cheap, but money buys the whiskey. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Jy bly maar ‘n goeie KP. Gaan Orania toe. [You are still a good CP member. Go to Orania.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chair, it is rather surprising that we had quite a few speakers here talking like typical capitalist employers. [Interjections.] The MF compliments the Department of Labour on its significant role in reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality through policies and programmes developed in consultation with the relevant role-players.
Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe: Sawubona. Ngiyasithanda leso sigqoko sakhe, sihle. [To the hon Minister I say: ``Hello. I like your hat, it is beautiful.]
It is remarkable to take note of the eight key programmes aimed at skills development and job creation, namely administration, occupational health and safety for workers, social insurance, employment and skills development services, labour relations, labour policy, service delivery and auxiliary and associated services.
The South African labour force is presently under tremendous stress with the impact of the HIV/Aids pandemic on the labour force, resulting in increased medical expenses and an increased mortality rate. This, in turn, also strongly impacts on the economy with additional costs incurred by companies with the recruitment and training of new staff.
The MF recommends that all employees familiarise themselves with the Employment Equity Act and the Labour Relations Act, so as not to fall victim to exploitation and unfair labour practices. It is also recommended that all employees request a contract of employment from the beginning of the working relationship. This contract, which is an agreement between employer and employee, clearly stipulates the employee’s period of employment and the benefits, and protects both employer and employee from possible problems that may be encountered in the future.
The divergent labour market trends in South Africa have a negative impact on the formal sector, and contrast sharply with unemployment and incomparable growth in the informal sector. The MF is of the opinion that there is a need for continuous restructuring in the formal sector so as to increase the employment rate.
The MF recognises the Government’s initiative in its contribution to skills development, with the establishment of the 25 sector education and training authorities, including several learnership programmes. The MF finds it disheartening that the slow-down in economic activity has resulted in slower real wage growth. However, it is pleasing to note that moderate formal sector earnings have been matched by better income distributions. [Interjections.]
The MF is satisfied that the global expansion of South African firms holds significant benefits for the economy and that the Government remains committed to a gradual approach to exchange control liberalisation. However, the South African labour market needs to be on the alert for potential risks to the forecasts, which include a hard landing in the US economy, renewed cut-backs in oil production and a decline in business confidence. On the other hand, key positive factors to look forward to are lower crude oil prices and lower inflation. The MF supports Vote No 27: Labour.
Ms H F MALEBANA: Modulasetulo, gammogo le maloko a Palamente ao a hlomphegago, ke a leboga. Go Tona ya tša Mesomo, ke reÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Mr Chairperson, hon members, I would like to say this to the Minister …]
… indeed we are on course. Voters in their masses gave the ANC an open, clear and direct mandate. They said they had suffered enough. The South African masses are dying of hunger and poverty, and are tired of a lack of improvement in their lives.
In the 1999 election manifesto the ANC committed itself to speeding up delivery and advancing worker rights through the consolidation of legislation in order to protect workers and ensure effective implementation by focusing on the improvement of the quality of service delivery and efficiency in the use of public resources in all areas of Government. This will be realised because the Department of Labour channelled the bulk of its budget to a new programme called service delivery for obvious reasons of implementation of laws and ensuring effective and efficient client- oriented service delivery. The Department of Labour has embarked on a programme to create an environment conducive to job creation, which aims to enforce the various labour laws and provide a one-stop service through the establishment of business units in the provincial offices of the department in order to foster service delivery.
Labour senthase mo diprofenseng di ile tša hlongwa go kgonthišiša gore batho ba hwetša ditirelo ka tshwanelo. Kgoro ya tša Mesomo e kgonne go aba ditirelo tša maleba, e bile tše kaone, le gore basomi ba kgone go fihlelela ditirelo tšeo Kgoro ye e ikemišeditšego go ba fihlišetša tšona ka dilabour units le dilabour senthase tšeo e di išitšego diprofenseng.
Se se tla thuša go kgonthišiša tshedimošetšo le ditirelo tše dingwe gore di fihlelele bontši bja batho kua diprofenseng gore setšhaba le bašomi, le bašomi bao ba nago le mathata ba kgone go hwetša tshedimošetšo le ditirelo tš eo di swanetšego.
Melao yeo e fetišitšwego ke Palamente le yona e tla nyaka gore e hlathollwe gore setšhaba se kgone gore ge se eya mo disenthareng tšeo se hwetše thušo ya maleba. Bao ba nago le mathata a dikgobalo mešomong le bona ba tla thušwa ka go tlatša diforomo le go fetišetšwa go kgoro gore thušo ya bona e kgone go hlaganelwa. Go kgonthišiša le go tiišet ša gore melao e obamelwa ke bohle - bašomi, beng-mešomo gammogo le bao ba sa šomego, go hlomilwe lekala la bahlahlobi go tiišetša gore ga go yo a tshelago melao le tšhireletšo ya bašomi.
Bjalo ka mmušo wa ANC re re re lapišitšwe ke dikotse tšeo di diregalago bašomi, bjalo ka ge e le batho bao ba fepago setšhaba sa gabo rena. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[The labour centres in the provinces were established to ensure that people got appropriate services. The Department of Labour has succeeded in delivering appropriate services, so that workers can access services which are offered by these labour centres in the provinces. This will help to ensure that information and other services are accessed by the majority of people in the provinces, so that their communities and workers with various problems can access appropriate information and services.
Legislation passed by the Parliament will also have to be interpreted, so that the communities can access appropriate assistance from these centres. Those who are injured while at work will also be assisted in filling in forms that will be processed by the department, so that they can be assisted as a matter of urgency. In order to ensure that everyone is bound by the laws of this country - workers, employers and the unemployed - there is a unit of inspectors to ensure that no one is breaking the law and jeopardising the safety of workers.
As the ANC Government, we are saying that we are tired of accidents that injure the workers who are the breadwinners of their communities.]
On 28 June 1999 the Minister announced, in this House, the 15 point programme of action for 1999-2004 which flowed from the presidential Jobs Summit. The social plan seeks to put in place three sets of measures, and these are, firstly, to prevent retrenchments from taking place; secondly, that where retrenchments are unavoidable, they should be managed humanely; and thirdly, that where retrenchments have taken place, measures should be put in place to assist the affected invididuals and communities to find alternative forms of employment or sustainable livelihoods.
I would like to say to the hon the Minister that capacity-building at provincial level is a necessity. In his state of the nation address, the hon President, Thabo Mbeki, stressed the need for human resource development. The committee undertook provincial visits to acquaint itself with the frustrations and achievements experienced by workers as regards service delivery.
Le ge mathata a fapana go ya ka tsebo le phihlelelo ya melao le ditirelo, komiti e hweditše gore go na le moo go nyakegago ditlabelo go thuša bašomi le bašomedi ba Kgoro ya Mešomo gammogo le bao ba tlilego go nyaka ditirelo. Go hlokega tlhatlho ya maleba gore banyaki ba ditirelo le bašomi ba kgone go aba ditirelo le go kwišišana gore go se be le titelano yeo e tlago tšeya nako ye ntši ya bao ba sa šomego. Kwišišo ya melao le yona e a nyakega gore go be le tshepedišo ye kaone le ya ditaba le ditshwanelo tša ka pejana.
Bašomi ba re ba tennwe ke ditiro tša bomenetša le tsogo-le-kobong tšeo di hlokišago setšhaba tshepo maekemišetšong a Mmušo a go aba ditirelo tše bohlokwa ka tshwanelo.
Mošomo wo mogolo wa CCMA ke go ba monamodi melatong yeo go nago le go hloka kwišišano magareng a bašomi le beng-mešomo. Ge mokhomishinare wa CCMA a šitwa ke go tliša kwano le kwišišano go namolweng ga molato, o tlo tšweletša bohlatse bja gore o paletšwe ke go dira seo le gore molli a ka iša molato kgorong ya bonamodi goba ya bašomi. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Though problems vary, according to information laws and objectives and services, a committee found that there was a need for resources to help employees in the Department of Public Works, together with those seeking services. There is a need for proper training so that service seekers and employees would be able to provide the services and co-operation to avoid a delay that will consume much for those not working. Understanding the policies is also necessary to have better procedures for necessary matters.
Employees are saying they are sick and tired of corruption and bribery, which causes the nation to lose confidence in the Government’s objective of appropriately providing important services.
The biggest task for the CCMA is to mediate in cases where there are misunderstandings between employees and employers. If the CCMA’s commission fails to reach an agreement and understanding to resolve the dispute, the complainant is issued with a certificate declaring that the dispute has not been resolved and allowing the complainant to go for arbitration or take the matter to the Labour Court.]
The main objective of the CCMA is to avoid, at all costs, labour disputes between employers and employees.
Go tloga mola go hlongwago CCMA go bile le phokotšego ya go iš ega kudu melatong ya go se kwišišane magareng a beng-mešomo le bašomi gomme e dirile gore go be le nako ye ntši ya gore bašomi ba kgone go hwetša thušo le gore ba boele mešomong ya bona.
Ka sepedi go thwe: Kgomo go tsošwa yeo e lekago. Ga go mohola gore Palamente e fetiše melao ye mekaone, ge fela melao ya ntshe e sa tle go hola setšhaba ka go tliša le go potlakiša bophelo bjo bokaone bathong. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Since the establishment of the CCMA, there has been a remarkable decrease in the number of cases involving misunderstandings between employers and employees. It also made it possible to assist and allow employees to return to their jobs.
In Sepedi we say: A person endeavouring to achieve that which is for the best, is the one who gets support. It is useless for Parliament to pass laws, if those laws will not be of any use to the nation in speeding up the improvement of people’s lives.]
The RDP document states that the objective of human resource development is to address capabilities, abilities, knowledge and the know-how to meet the people’s ever-growing needs for goods and services, in order to improve their standard of living and quality of life.
Go bohlokwa kudu gore bašomedi ba Kgoro ya Mešomo, go tloga ka bao ba lego dikantorongkgolo tša yona go fihla go bao ba lego go tsa diprofense le setšhaba, ba amogetšwe tlhatlho ya maleba yeo e tlago kgonthiša kabo ye kaone ya ditirelo ka tsebo, bokgoni le botswerere. Go swanetše gore go be le mananeo le dingwalwa setšhabeng go fihliša tshedimošetšo go bohle. Se, re ile ra se lemoga, re le komiti, ge re be re etetše diprofense tše fapanego go lekola madirelo a bašomi. Ke ka fao Kgoro ya Mešomo e tlišitšego kabo ye ya ditirelo, ya be ya e romela diprofenseng gore batho ba hwetš e ditirelo ka bokgauswi le ka potlako. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[It is important for all workers in the Department of Labour, from those at the head office down to those in the provincial and local offices, to be given proper training that will give them more knowledge, skills and creativity. There should be programmes and publications to give them an awareness of the community. The committee was made aware of this, when visiting different provinces to check on their working conditions. That is how the Department of Labour enforced the provision of jobs - it delegated this to the provinces to create jobs immediately.]
The department has done so much, in so little time in terms of service delivery, despite the distorted, misleading labour market framework that we inherited. It has succeeded in delivery on the promise of a new labour dispensation that helps to entrench the rights of ordinary people and lays the foundation for sustainable economic growth.
Tše moka Modulasetulo, di fihlelelwa ka tshepišo ya mmušo wa ANC ya go re: Ka moka ka go thušang le setšhaba, re tlile go potlakiša diphetogo tša kabo ya ditirelo tše kaone. ANC e re budget ye e fetišwe ka maleba. [Legowa.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[Chairperson, the ANC Government promised that everything could be achieved with the help of the public as a whole. We are endeavouring to achieve change through good service. The ANC says this budget should be accepted. [Applause.]]
Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, I would like to advise the hon Minister to put on his crash helmet before I start my speech. [Laughter.] Ek wil in hierdie arbeidsdebat vandag op een aspek fokus, naamlik dit wat by ons mense al bekend geword het as onregstellende aksie. U moet my vandag verskoon as ek in rasseterme praat. Ek wil nie, maar die arbeidswette dwing my daartoe. Dit is die Wet op Gelyke Indiensneming wat rasseklassifikasie voortsit en waarvolgens werkers ingedeel word in terme van wit en swart en dan teen eersgenoemde diskrimineer. Ondernemings met minder as 50 werkers word van hierdie wet vrygestel. Gaan die wet op gelykheid op hulle losgelaat word? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[In this labour debate today I want to focus on one aspect, namely what has become known among our people as ``onregstellende aksie’’ [non-affirmative action]. You must forgive me today if I speak in racial terms. I do not want to, but the labour laws force me to do so. It is the Employment Equity Act which proceeds with race classification and according to which workers are divided in terms of white and black and the former are then discriminated against. Enterprises with fewer than 50 workers are exempt from this Act. Is the Act dealing with equality going to be unleashed upon them?]
The hon President stated in his state of the nation address in February 2000 that our labour laws have unforeseen consequences and should be addressed. Up to now nothing substantial has been addressed. Let me spell out one of these unforeseen consequences.
Hierdie wet stel as einddoel dat die bevolkingssamestelling in die werkplek weerspieël moet word. Dit klink mooi edel, maar in eenvoudige somme beteken dit dat ‘n miljoen wittes uit die werkplek verwyder moet word. Uit 24% wit werkers, sowat 12% van die bevolking, moet een in die slag bly; te meer omdat nie-werkbare sosialistiese wetgewing, misdaad en openbare flaters van die regering, ekonomiese groei inhibeer en sorg dat die koek nie groter word nie, maar eerder kleiner opgesny word.
Maatskappye moet nou regstellende planne opstel, om by hierdie teikens uit te kom. Ondernemings kan nie net deur natuurlike personeelomset hierdie teikens bereik nie en wend hulle tot onkonvensionele metodes. Die gevolg is vervreemding en frustrasie. Een tipiese voorbeeld is Eskom. Hier maak ek met dank gebruik van gegewens verskaf deur mnr Dirk Hermann van MBI Solidariteit. Eskom het meer as R800 miljoen bestee om van witmense ontslae te raak. Uit dokumente blyk dit dat ‘n verdere R182 miljoen daarvoor op pad is. Hierdie bedrag verteenwoordig 3000 blankes in die middel- en bestuurslynposte. Dit het miljoene rande gekos om hulle op te lei, miljoene om van hulle ontslae te raak en miljoene om ander weer in hulle plek aan te stel.
Ons bekommernis is dat ondernemings regstellende aksie sien as niks anders as rassetransformasie nie. Dit is nie gelykheid, maar nuwe ongelykhede. Daarom wil ek vra dat daar indringend na die volgende gekyk word: Daar moet ‘n definitiewe eindpunt aan regstellende aksie gekoppel word, naamlik ‘n sogenaamde ``sunset clause’’. Jongmense wat vir die eerste keer die arbeidsmark betree, moet hiervan vrygestel word. Indien regstellende aksie op bestuursvlakke toegepas word, moet dit ook op die onderste vlakke toegepas word, waar blankes onderverteenwoordig is. Alternatiewe moet geskep word vir mense wat benadeel word deur middel van opleiding, ontwikkeling of alternatiewe projekte. ‘n Spesiale kode moet opgestel word om nuwe rassisme te keer. Die regering moet streng optree indien ondernemings nuwe vorme van rassediskriminasie skep. ‘n Wetwysiging is nodig om te verseker dat Suid-Afrikaners nie benadeel word ten gunste van buitelanders in die regstellende aksieproses nie. Hier dink ek veral aan Kubane. Werkgewers moet in hul verslae aan die Departement van Arbeid aandui watter maatreels in plek gestel gaan word, om te verhoed dat nuwe diskriminasie benadeling skep. Doen ons dit nie, gaan blankes verder vervreem raak. Rassespanning in die werkplek gaan verhoog, ‘n nuwe geskoolde werkloosheidspoel gaan ontstaan en die emigrasiestroom gaan eenvoudig toeneem.
Ek wil die ANC-regering vandag goeie raad gee: doen net drie dinge - bekamp misdaad en veral plaasmoorde, staak die verdringing van ons taal en maak ‘n einde aan regstellende aksie. Die ANC sal verbaas wees oor hoeveel positiewe energie onder my mense geskep gaan word. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is goeie raad. Of die Regering dit gaan aanvaar, is sy saak. [Tussenwerpsels.]
‘n AGB LID: Wie is jou mense?
Mnr C AUCAMP: As agb lede nou nog nie weet nie … [Gelag.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[This Act has as its object that the population composition should be reflected in the workplace. This sounds very noble, but in simple arithmetic it means that one million whites must be removed from the workplace. Out of 24% white workers, approximately 12% of the population, one must be removed; more so because unworkable socialistic legislation, crime and public blunders on the part of the Government are inhibiting economic growth and ensuring that the cake is not getting bigger, but is being cut into smaller pieces instead.
Companies now have to draft affirmative plans, in order to reach these targets. Enterprises cannot simply reach these targets by way of natural staff turnover and are resorting to unconventional methods. The result is alienation and frustration. A typical example of this is Eskom. Here I am gratefully making use of figures provided by Mr Dirk Hermann from MBI Solidarity. Eskom spent more than R800 million to get rid of white people. It is apparent from documentation that a further R182 million for this purpose is on its way. This amount represents 3 000 whites in middle and management posts. It cost millions of rand to train them, millions to get rid of them and millions to appoint others in their place.
Our concern is that enterprises view affirmative action as nothing more than racial transformation. It is not equality, but new inequality. I therefore want to ask that the following be looked at urgently: a definite end point must be linked to affirmative action, namely a so-called sunset clause. Young people entering the labour market for the first time must be exempt from this. If affirmative action is to be implemented at management level, it must also be implemented at the lowest levels where whites are underrepresented.
Alternatives must be created for people who are negatively affected by way of training, development or alternative projects. A special code must be drafted to prevent new racism. The Government must act strongly if enterprises create new forms of racial discrimination. A statutory amendment is necessary to ensure that South Africans are not disadvantaged in favour of foreigners in the affirmative action process. In this regard I am thinking about Cubans in particular. Employers must indicate in their reports to the Department of Labour what measures are going to be put in place to prevent disadvantages being created by new discrimination. If we do not do this, whites are going to become further alienated. Racial tension in the workplace will increase, a new skilled pool of unemployed people is going to arise and the stream of emigrants is simply going to increase.
Today I want to give the ANC Government good advice: do just three things - combat crime and farm murders in particular, stop the suppression of our language and put an end to affirmative action. The ANC will be amazed at how much positive energy will be created among my people. [Interjections.] This is good advice. Whether the Government is going to take it, is their business. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Who are your people?
Mr C AUCAMP: If hon members still do not know … [Laughter.]]
Mr S PILLAY: Chairperson, the unemployment rate in South Africa is often a matter of diverse opinion. Reports and research put the unemployment percentage at anything between 33% and 62%. Whatever the percentage is, it is far too high.
Some of the consequences of unemployment include the breakdown of family life and values; an inability to pay rent, electricity and other basic services; an extremely high rate of school dropouts, even at primary school levels; and increased and uncontrollable levels of crime, frustration, anger and feelings of hopelessness.
I shall mention two other factors, and focus on some social and political causes of unemployment in South Africa, namely a lack of finance, coupled with a burdensome process of registering a company or closed corporation, and a lack of business management training or access thereto.
President Robert Mugabe and his campaign of terror caused thousands of Zimbabweans to flee Zimbabwe and enter South Africa, joining the ranks of the unemployed. Over 1,1 million people have fled Zimbabwe, entering Botswana, South Africa and other countries. A recent survey in which I was involved, that covered Joubert Park, Hillbrow, Bellevue, Berea and Rosettenville, showed that of the 44 blocks of flats surveyed, 50%, that is 22 of the blocks of flats, were fully occupied by unemployed Zimbabweans that have fled from Robert Mugabe’s campaign of terror. The flats accommodated 33 912 people. In a three-bedroomed flat there were 12 people, that is four people per room, living under the most appalling conditions. [Interjections.] If everything were in order, why would people choose to live under such terrible conditions? Sources within the Zimbabwean community indicate that there are more than 500 000 Zimbabwean nationals living in South Africa at present.
All of the respondents interviewed indicated that they had no visible means of support, were unemployed in Zimbabwe and looking for employment in South Africa, had fled from Robert Mugabe’s campaign of terror, and that they had entered South Africa illegally or as visitors and had been in South Africa for more than two years. [Interjections.] These people are unemployed and while they seek employment, they have to obtain accommodation, eat, travel, communicate and receive medical treatment. As they have no visible means of support, the question arises as to how and where they manage to obtain the means to live.
We have a strange and unacceptable situation to manage. The Zimbabweans, like others that enter the country illegally, do so at the borders where they are not controlled. The Minister of Safety and Security referred a question in that regard to the Minister of Defence. The Minister of Defence, in turn, referred the matter to the Minister of Home Affairs. Someone has to tell this House what arrangements the Minister of Foreign Affairs has made with Robert Mugabe that prevent her from reacting strongly to the social invasion of South Africa by Robert Mugabe. [Interjections.]
Robert Mugabe has blamed everyone except God for the devastation that has been wreaked on that country. It is only a matter of time before he includes the Almighty as a murderousÿ …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Order, Mr Pillay. Mr Goniwe?
Mr M T GONIWE: Chairperson, I want to know whether the member is reading the correct speech? [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, continue, but keep to the debate.
Mr S PILLAY: It is only a matter of time before he includes the Almighty as a murderous, colonial criminal. However, the flood of people that enter South Africa point to one man and his violent economic practices. These practices have resulted in the displacement and death of thousands of innocent citizens. Someone in Zimbabwe is responsible for the reign of terror, starvation, crime and unemployment that is causing such a huge exodus of people from their homes in the land of their birth and their entering South Africa, hence exacerbating the level of unemployment. [Interjections.] I submit …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Order, Mr Pillay. There is another point of order.
Ms N E HANGANA: Chairperson, on a point of order: This is just for the information of the member. We do have a Minister of Foreign Affairs in this House.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, just stick to the Vote on Labour. Continue with your speech. [Laughter.]
Mr S PILLAY: Chairperson, I submit that the culprit in this case is Robert Mugabe. [Interjections.] The question remains unanswered as to which Minister is responsible for guarding our borders and ensuring that those who should be allowed to enter the country do so unhindered, and those who are not supposed to enter and remain here are apprehended if they attempt to do so. Whatever the reasons that the Ministers are unable to answer the questions or take the necessary action, this indicates that they are inept or deliberately causing confusion to increase unemployment, as hundreds of people are entering the country illegally on a daily basis.
We cannot expect the hon the Minister to provide us with accurate information as to how many people in South Africa are unemployed, as no one in Government is able to tell us how many illegal immigrants are in the country because they have fraudulently obtained South African identity documents. The SA Broadcasting Corporation employed such people. In that context, I am not surprised. I submit that the hon Minister’s colleagues are rendering him unable to do his work.
Robert Mugabe has ANC written all over him. [Interjections.] He is the ANC that does not stand for African National Congress. He, together with the ruling party here, gives a new meaning to ANC, and that is ``Another National Calamity’’.
Mr M T GONIWE: Chairperson, on a point of order: I appeal that this member be ruled out of order. He is wasting the House’s time …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I cannot rule the speech of the member out of order, but I am advising hon members to stick to the Vote being discussed today. Continue, Mr Pillay, and stick to the Vote being discussed today.
Mr S PILLAY: Chairperson, what I am saying here is that the violence and economic practices of Robert Mugabe are causing more unemployment in this country, and that is in line with the Vote. [Interjections.] The Minister of Safety …
Mr M RAMGOBIN: Chairperson, on a point of order: Can the speaker tell us whether the DP has a labour desk?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I do not know whether the member would like to take a question. Do you want to take a question, hon Pillay? [Interjections.] He does not want to take a question. Continue with your speech, hon member.
Mr S PILLAY: Chairperson, there are over 500 000 unemployed Zimbabweans in this country, and they are adding to the problem of unemployment that we are confronted with. [Interjections.] That is actually at the heart of the matter here. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr S A MSHUDULU: Mhlalingaphambili, kuyacaca ukuba ngumbutho we-ANC kuphela ozaziyo iimfuno zabasebenzi. [Chairperson, it is clear that it is only the ANC that knows the needs of the workers.]
I hope that the hon President will share with us in this debate even in his absence. Hon Minister of Labour, hon members of this House, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I wish to participate in this budget debate today on behalf of the ANC with regard to the policy framework put in place by the ANC-led Government to transform our labour market and how it is progressing towards addressing past imbalances. I further wish to outline what institutional changes were put in place to allow a smooth implementation of these policies and to transform our labour market and our industrial and economic environment so that we find a place in the global world.
We need a strategy that will allow us to achieve this objective. Before I unpack what strategy has been put in place to address the imbalances of the past, let me give this House the background to the country’s past distortions in the labour market in IsiXhosa, so that even workers out there who cannot understand English can hear me.
Mawethu, nani zinkosi zam, kubalulekile ukuba siqale ngokuchaza ukuba sivela phi na singabasebenzi, ukuze sazi ukuba simi phi okanye siya phi na.
Kwithuba langaphambili likarhulumente we-NP, abasebenzi, ngakumbi abamnyama ngebala, babengaphethwanga ngambeko. Kubasebenzi ababhinqileyo nabakhubazekileyo kwakunzima ukuqeshwa, yeka kona ukuphathwa gadalala emisebenzini xa bathe abavuma ukwenza ezinye izinto ukuze bamkeleke.
Kwabo basebenzi babekhe basebenza emigodini okanye kumaziko-mveliso, sokhumbula okokuba ngalaa mhla wokuqala bathabatha ijoyini okanye belindele ukuqeshwa kwakufuneka ukuba baqale bakhulule babe ze ukulungiselela ukuba ugqirha abaxilonge okanye abajonge ukuba bacoceke kangakanani na. Lo gqirha wayengayikhathalelanga into yokuba babelingana ngeminyaka kusini na. Xa ebonana nalowo uqeshwayo bekufanele aphendule nemibuzo enganxulumananga naloo msebenzi awufunayo. Umzekelo, kwakubuzwa ukuba wawukhe waqeqeshelwa ubujoni na okanye uyasazi na isiBhulu.
Zizo zonke ezi zinto ndithetha ngazo Mhlalingaphambili, ezazibangela ukuba abantu abamnyama abafuna umsebenzi bangaqeshwa, kulungiselelwa abebala. Ngenxa yale ngxaki, Mhlalingaphambili, ndiyathemba ukuba uza kuvumelana nam xa ndisithi abanye abakhanyayo ngebala kuthi bagqibela sele beziguqulele esilungwini iifani zabo.
Olo calu-calulo lwalunzima nangaphakathi kwiindawo zokusebenza ngoba nangani wawungesiso isidenge wawunokugugela engqeshweni ungumenzi weti, ungenakho ukunyuselwa ukuze wenze omnye umsebenzi owandisa ulwazi lwakho khon’ ukuze wamkele imali eyoneleyo. Abasebenzi ababhinqileyo kwakungafanelekanga ukuba bamkele imali elinganayo neyamadoda noxa besebenza ngokufanayo.
Yiyo yonke le nkohlakalo engqeshweni nasekuhlaleni enyanzele ukuba bonke abasebenzi bavotele i-ANC eyayikhokelwa nguMongameli uThambo nguTat’ uMandela, ngoku, nguMongameli Mbeki, ngenxa yokuba yiyo yodwa eyayinakho ukubakhupha ebukhobokeni.
Ngoko ke uthi umbuzo: Kungokuba i-ANC iphethe ntoni na esandleni? Kwasekuqaleni, ngo-1912, i-ANC yayineembono zokulwa ingcinezelo, ubukhoboka, indlala nazo zonke izinto ezazisenziwa ngurhulumente we-NP, ngakumbi kwiimeko apho yayisehlisa isidima sabantu abamnyama. Eminye imizekelo kukwanda kwabantu abangasebenziyo, nenani eliphezulu labasebenzi abangasetyenziswa ngendlela efanelekileyo.
Ukwanda kwendlala kubangelwa kukubhatalwa kwabantu abamnyama imivuzo engaphantsi kwaleyo yabamhlophe kodwa besebenza imisebenzi efanayo okanye elinganayo ngokubaluleka, ukungalingani ngokwempatho kwiindawo zokusebenzela, ukuyisebenzisela uqeqesho lwabamhlophe bodwa imali yengeniso ebisetyenzelwe ngabo bonke abasebenzi, ukungahlonitshwa, ngabaqeshi, kwemithetho ekhusela bonke abasebenzi nokungakhuselwa kwabo basebenzi abangakwaziyo ukuzithethelela. Ndithetha ngabasebenzi basezifama, abasemakhitshini nabakwiindawo ezincinci zokusebenzela. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Hon people, it is important that we begin by explaining where we come from as workers, so that we can know where we stand at the moment and where we are going.
During the period of the government of the NP, workers, particularly the black workers, were not treated with respect. It was difficult for women and the disabled to get employment. They were faced with intimidation at places of employment if they did not agree to engage in some activities, which would guarantee their acceptance.
We should remember that on the first day of employment or whilst awaiting acceptance, the people who used to work in the mines or factories had to remove all their clothes and be naked so that a doctor could examine them or check their hygienic condition. This particular doctor did not care whether these people were of the same age or not. When he was being examined, the one who was to be employed had to answer questions that were not even relevant to the type of job that he was going to be doing. For instance, he would be asked whether he had ever trained to be a soldier or whether he knew how to speak Afrikaans.
These are all the things that prohibited black people from being employed, as jobs were reserved for ``Coloured’’ people, Chairperson. Because of this problem, Chairperson, I hope that you will agree with me when I say that some of us who happened to have a fair colouring or lighter skin ended up changing our surnames to be like those of white people.
This kind of discrimination was even strongly felt when one was already employed, because even though one was not stupid, one could reach retirement age without ever having been promoted to a position or kind of job that would develop one so that one could earn enough; if one was making tea, one would remain a tea-maker. It was considered inappropriate for women to earn the same salary as men, even though they were doing the same kind of job.
It was this cruelty in places of employment that caused workers to vote for the ANC that was led by the late President Tambo, hon Mr Mandela, and now, President Mbeki. It was because it was the only party that could save them from slavery.
The question then arises: What can the ANC offer? Since its establishment in 1912, the ANC had a vision to fight oppression, slavery, starvation and all the other bad things that the former NP government did, particularly in situations where it degraded black people. Other examples are the rise in unemployment and the rise in the number of workers that are in jobs that are not suitable for them.
The rise in poverty levels is a direct result of inadequate payments made to black workers that is actually less than that of their white counterparts while doing the same kind of jobs; inequality in places of employment; the training of white people with money that all the workers worked to generate; disrespect of the laws protecting all workers by employers and the lack of protection for workers that are not able to speak for themselves. I am talking about farm workers, domestic workers and workers in emerging businesses.]
Chairperson, it is against this background that the policies of the ANC-led Government had to be tailored so as to address these frustrations and imbalances of the past. It was for this reason that sections 2, 9 and 23 of our Constitution and the whole Bill of Rights were included in order to bring about legislative reforms.
These sections of our Constitution have given birth to the Labour Relations Act, more especially, Chapter VII, ie the Code of Good Practice regarding dismissals, the Employment Equity Act, the Skills Development Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. The desire to entrench democracy through institutional reform has also led to the establishment of the CCMA, Nedlac and the Commission for Employment Equity.
The Constitution and the Public Finance Management Act require of the Department of Labour, in this instance, that it reflects on the outcomes- based programme to see how this financial year’s and future allocations, in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, are going to be spent. All these progressive policies are put in place for the sake of accountability, because the ANC is on course, as the President said.
This is value for money, and beneficiaries who are taxpayers need to know what the Government they have voted into power spends money on and how it addresses their needs. To this end, let me first take this House through the employment equity programme. With regard to the implementation of the Employment Equity Act, the pragmatic ANC-led Government first had to adopt a phased-in approach so as to take everyone on board. The Department of Labour had first to establish a directorate of employment equity to administer this legislation aimed at eliminating unfair discrimination in employment and ensuring successful implementation of the Employment Equity Act, to redress the effects of discrimination in the workplace. Furthermore, the department established the Commission for Employment Equity whose duty it is to give advice to the Minister on policy matters, including the issuing of codes of good practice. It further identifies areas of research.
In the past financial year the department has complied with the requirements of section 41 of the Employment Equity Act through the establishment of an employment registry called the public registry, which was gazetted on 2 October. It has succeeded in registering 3 083 employer organisations, which is 60% of the total employers. But by December the number had gone up to 4 152, which is 89% of employers who complied with the Act. All these figures, as well as these achievements, happened because of the role that was played by Nedlac, a forum in which all parties participated and made contributions, although some claim not to have played a role.
Kubalulekile ke ukuba abasebenzi phaya ngaphandle bazi ukuba eyona ndlela yokwenza amazwi ukuba abo avakale, kukugqithisela izimvo zabo kwi-Nedlac, ukwenzela ukuba kuthi xa imithetho ifikelela apha ePalamente babe nabo sele belenzile igalelo.
I-ANC iyalwamkela olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali kuba intetho yoMphathiswa iyicacisile into yokuba i-ANC isemgaqeweni, yaye akukho ndlela yokuba ingaxokisa ilizwe. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[It is important for the workers to know that in order for their voices to be heard, they should forward their views to Nedlac, so that when Bills are tabled in Parliament, their views would be included in them.
The ANC welcomes this budget because the Minister’s speech showed clearly that the ANC is on the right track and that there is no way that it can mislead the country.]
UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Mhlalingaphambili, okokuqala mandibulele onke amalungu athe athabatha inxaxheba kule ngxoxo-mpikiswano.
Okwesibini mandiwabulele amalungu ngokusebenzisa iilwimi zawo zeenkobe. Ngokwenza njalo amalungu adala amathuba emisebenzi. Ukudala nokuvula amathuba emisebenzi asikokucikoza kuphela, kufuneka senze. Siyakuthi senze ngokuthi sisebenzise iilwimi zethu xa sithetha, ukwenzela ukuba abaa bantu batolikayo bafumane ukutya nabo. Baya kutya ke ngokuthi sizisebenzise iilwimi zethu. Xa ke amalungu ezoyika yaye ezonyanya iilwimi zawo, abantu nabo baza kungakufumani ukutya.
Ndiyabulela kakhulu kumalungu athe asixhasa. Bakhona ke noko ekufuneka ndikhe ndithi nje gqwathu gqwathu kubo, ndibathi mpaka mpaka ke noko, ndingabashiyi beseloluya hlobo bebeze belulo apha eqongeni. [Kwahlekwa.]
Ndiyabulela kakhulu kuMnu Middleton ngokusixhasa kwakhe nangokuwuqonda kwakhe umsebenzi esiwuphetheyo noxanduva esijongene nalo sileli Sebe. Ndibamba ngazibini kwindod’enkulu. Bendiyazi kakade into yokuba iza kusixhasa yona.
Ndifuna ukusebenzisa ifani le yakhe imnandi, ithetha ngokubhlasa, ndikhe ndimbhlase kwezinye iindawo. [Kwahlekwa.] Siyavumelana naye uMnu Blaas ukuba ngokwenene kwi-UIF le ikhona ingxaki. Kodwa into uMnu Blaas ayilibalayo malunga ne-UIF yeyokuba, nanjengomntu owakhe wakulo eli Sebe, ukuba iinkcukacha zam zezichanekileyo, kukuba umele ukuba agxeke umthetho wakhe we-NP ka-1966 we-UIF. Unyaka ka-1966 ngulowo kwabhubha ngawo umhlekazi uVelevutha phaya kulaa Ndlu ikweliya cala. Ngunyaka omdala kakhulu ke lowo, u-1966. Ngulo nyaka ndafika ngawo apha eKapa ke mna, u-1966.
Makayazi into yokuba into ebangela ukuba size nomthetho omtsha kukufuna ukususa onke amanyundululu, intshela namanyala abo beyi -NP. Ezinye ke iingxaki esinazo kwi-UIF zibangelwe nguye nabantu awayesebenza nabo apha. Naye uyayibona iminyaka le yakhe ukuba iyangqina ukuba ngokwenene wayekho ngelaa xesha kwakusenziwa eli nyundululu.] Silungisa loo nto ke, mhlekazi. Zizinto, ezi, ezenziwa ngabo. Basishiya nale meko. Simele ke ngoko ukuba sibe nezinto esizenzayo.
UMnu Ramodike ndiyambulela kakhulu. Kambe ke imibuzo ayibuzayo, ebhekisele ikakhulu kwezobugcisa, ndingavuya ukuba unokuyizisa njengemibuzo ukwenzela ukuba sikwazi ukuyiphendula. [Oo`how many’ aba ababubazayo apha, Senzela ukuba nyhani sibaphendule, kuba ndiyaqonda ukuba kuza kunyanzeleka simphendule.] Imibuzo yakhe inondileko kakhulu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, firstly, I would like to thank all the hon members that participated in this debate.
Secondly, I would like to thank the hon members for using their first languages. By doing so they create job opportunities. Creating and opening up job opportunities is not only about talking about them, but it is about actions. That we will accomplish by speaking our first languages, so that the interpreters can also earn a living. They will be able to feed themselves when we use our languages. When hon members are afraid to use their languages and despise them, people will not be able to earn a living.
I am very grateful to the hon members who supported us. However, I feel I should throw some pebbles of truth between the eyes of some members, lest they remain what they were before they came to the podium. [Laughter.]
I am very grateful to Mr Middleton for supporting us and for his understanding of the work that we are handling and the responsibility we have as this department. I am really grateful to the old man. I knew that he would definitely support us. However, I would like to use his nice sounding surname that seems to be about blasting, and blast him a little. [Laughter.] We agree with Mr Blaas that really there is a problem with the UIF. However, what Mr Blaas forgets about the UIF, is that as a person who once was in this department, if the information I have is accurate, he is supposed to criticise the UIF law of 1966 that was passed by the NP.
The year 1966 is the year in which Dr Verwoerd died in the House on the other side. It is a long time ago. The same year, 1966, is the year in which I came to Cape Town for the first time.
He should know that the reason we introduced a new law is that we wanted to erase all the bad and immoral things that they did as the NP. Some of the problems we are experiencing with the UIF were caused by him and the people he worked with here. He himself can actually see by his age that he was there when these vices were committed. We are correcting exactly that now, Sir. These are things that were committed by them. They left us in this bad situation. We are, therefore, obliged to do something about it.
I would like to thank Mr Ramodike very much. His questions, though, are more directed to technology and I would be glad if he could present them as written questions so that we can be in a position to answer them. We are going to have to answer the questions he is posing regarding statistical figures. His questions are very valuable.]
In his opinion article on Wednesday in the Cape Times, the leader of the DA, the hon Tony Leon, said that unemployment was very high and that the major reason for this was the labour laws introduced by the ANC. [Interjections.] While no one can deny the fact that our country has a high unemployment rate, it is spurious to attribute this to laws passed since
- [Interjections.] The truth of the matter is that the high unemployment rate is a direct legacy of the apartheid-style economy which had inherent rigidities and inefficiencies. [Interjections.]
The mess created by hon Leon’s political alliance partner, the NP, began showing cracks in the 1980s when the spate of job losses continued unabated. What we see today is the aggregation of many decades of ill- conceived, poorly conceptualised and ill-fated policies of apartheid that cannot be blamed on the ANC. Hon Leon continues to say, in the said article:
Our highly protective and intrusive labour laws are pushing the cost of labour to unacceptable levels, frightening employers from taking on labour, discouraging new businesses from starting up and deterring investment.
This statement only serves to confirm what many of us can no longer afford to ignore, namely that he lives in a world of his own - ilizwe leempundulu [a world of fantasy]. In that fictitious world facts and reality are substituted for figments of the imagination. An institution no less honourable and independent than the Reserve Bank proves the hon Leon’s assertion to be far from the truth. On page 15 of the Reserve Bank’s Monetary Policy Review of March 2001, the following is stated, and I quote.:
Annual growth in labour productivity in the nonagricultural sectors increased from 2,6% in the first quarter of 1999 to 6,3% in the second quarter of 2000. Given the fairly moderate increases in nominal remuneration per worker in this period, this improvement in labour productivity resulted in the inflationary pressures associated with unit labour costs falling sharply. As a result, pressures on inflation, emanating from the labour market, have been subdued.
In the light of the Reserve Bank dictum, and other related overwhelming and cogent evidence that dispel the hon Leon’s ill-conceived accusations, one wonders what Mr Leon’s hidden agenda is. [Interjections.] One wonders why Mr Leon is so determined to mislead the South African public on this matter. [Interjections.] I call on Mr Leon to stop insulting the intelligence of the South African public by making spurious, reckless allegations in the hope of scoring cheap political points.
Ndifuna ukuvala ngoMnu Groenewald noMnu Aucamp. Asijiki nokuba sekumnyama entla. Siya phambili.
Bendimele ukuba ndiqale phaya kuPillay. Makhe ndiqale ngaye. [Kwahlekwa.] Mna ndicinga ukuba sikhona isigulo anaso uMnu Pillay [Kwahlekwa.] Sisinyhola sesiqihela, sesihiba, sesi-aha-aha esingafuni kulandelwa. [Kwahlekwa.]
KuMnu Groenewald nakuMnu Aucamp ndithi: Asijiki nokuba sekumnyama entla. Siya phambili. Bayakhala abo basivotelayo siyiNkongolo. Bathi lusengamandla ucalu-calulo apho basebenza khona. Lo Mthetho ungoLingano eNgqeshweni sisixhobo nesikhali sokulwa ucalu-calulo eliyinxalenye yalo ilungu elihloniphekileyo. Ilungu lityebe liteketeke nje kukunyiba amanqatha olwaa calu-calulo lwalukho ngaphambili. [Uwele-wele.]
Iintetho zikaMnu Groenewald zinokudala unxunguphalo nempixano. Abo basivotelayo banomsindo. Sibabambile siyiNkongolo. Ilungu eli liyabaxhokonxa. Liza kudliwa bubugqwangu ke, kuba likhala lingekabethwa. Asikabethi mntu thina, kodwa sele ekhala. Kanti ke sithi abantu abanesikofu nabakhuthuke intamo yidyokhwe yengcinezelo. [Uwele-wele.]
Bazivele abantu bakowethu ukuba sisekude engqinibeni. Sinqumla entlango, ookrebe abafana noGroenewald bayasing’ong’ozela, bayasixhokonxa. Mna ke icebiso lam lithi: Mabangaqhwanyazi. Mabeme bathi ngxi. Mabaqinise iziquluba, baqule baligangathe. Eli dabi lokulwa ingcinezelo ngumlo omkhulu oza kubangela ukuba kutak’ iintlantsi negazi ukuba bathe baqhwanyaza.
Masilonyanye ucalu-calulo. Masitshice sithi: Phantsi ngocalucalulo!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Phantsi! [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Finally, I would like to address the hon Mr Groenewald and the hon Mr Aucamp. For us, there is no turning back, no matter what lies ahead. We are going forward.
I should have addressed the hon Mr Pillay first. Let me start with him. [Laughter.] I think that the hon Mr Pillay suffers from a certain illness. He displays signs of being a simple-minded person who should not be paid attention to by anyone. [Laughter.]
To Mr Groenewald and Mr Aucamp I say: For us, there is no turning back, no matter what lies ahead. We are going forward. Those that voted for us, as the ANC, are complaining. They say that discrimination is still very rife in their places of employment. The Employment Equity Act is a weapon for fighting discrimination and the hon member was part of the process that passed it. The hon member is so fat from the proceeds of apartheid that existed before. [Interjections.]
Mr Groenewald’s speeches can cause despondency and strife. Those that voted for us are angry. We are trying to calm them as the ANC. The hon member now is provoking them. He brings the hornet’s nest close to his ear, but he screams before he is stung. He will get what he is asking for. He has not been stung yet, but already he is screaming. We are the ones who endured pain, who were bartered and who bear the scars of suffering under the yoke of oppression. [Interjections.]
Our people can tell for themselves that we are still far from achieving our goals. We are crossing a desert; on the way there are wolves like Mr Groenewald who are baying for our blood; they are provoking us. My advice is: They should not blink. They should stand still. They should stand firm and be well prepared. This battle against oppression is a serious one and it is going to cause sparks to fly and blood to flow, if they blink.
Let us despise discrimination. As a sign of our aversion to it, let us spit on it and say: Down with discrimination!
HON MEMBERS: Down! [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 12:03.