TUESDAY, 19 JUNE 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 10:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr P M MATHEBE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that President Mbeki took Great Britain by storm during his successful visit …

[Interjections.]

(2) commends President Mbeki for building on our historic relationship with Britain and for taking dozens of business people with him;

(3) further commends Prime Minister Tony Blair, the Queen and the British people for the hospitable manner in which they received our President; and

(4) congratulates the President on this extremely successful trip to the United Kingdom.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) commits itself once again to the principle that violence against women, whether in private or in public, is unacceptable …

[Interjections.]

(2) notes the incident on Youth Day when the President pushed the hon Winnie Madikizela-Mandela in the face and knocked her cap off, which was humiliating not only for her but also for those millions of South Africans who have respect for women of whatever age.

[Interjections.]

(3) calls upon the President to apologise publicly for his bad manners and unfortunate conduct.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) congratulates the police that have been honoured by the KwaZulu-Natal MEC and his commissioner for bravery and good behaviour at their work;

(2) encourages all policemen and policewomen to follow suit in order for them to be respected by the community in which they reside; and

(3) thanks the MEC, the hon Inkosi N J Ngubane, MPP, for his encouragement and his provincial commissioner, Mr Moses Khanyile, for looking after the interest and the welfare of the police in the province of KwaZulu-Natal by bestowing such an honour on them to promote diligence in their performance.

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the cold-blooded murder of Comrade Frans George Ramole on the evening of 16 June 2001;

(2) further notes that at the time of his murder he was serving as the chairperson of the safety and security unit of the Tshwane mayoral committee; (3) conveys its sincere condolences to the bereaved family; and

(4) calls for the tracking down of the murderers and appeals to the community to assist the police with information.

[Applause.]

Dr P J RABIE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  since 1990 tax contributions by individuals have climbed from
       30% to 41% of tax receipts;


   (b)  this is a shocking indication of how the ANC Government burdens
       the SA taxpayer, which is in direct contravention of
       international tax trends; and


   (c)  the ANC are adding yet another two tax laws to the present
       unacceptably high tax burden of South Africans; and

(2) calls on the Government to put a moratorium on all new taxes till it can prove to the SA taxpayers that they are getting value for their money and that it is not simply making more instant multimillionaires, like Coleman Andrews, with the hard-earned money of SA taxpayers.

[Applause.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that Spoornet is a nonroad user of bulk diesel fuel, and that
       its use of this fuel is being further restricted to low density
       lines due to the electrification of the Kimberley-De Aar stretch
       of the Johannesburg-Cape Town line;


   (b)  that, in the 1999-2000 financial year, Spoornet's levies to the
       Road Accident Fund and the SA National Roads Agency through its
       bulk diesel purchases amounted to almost R29 million; and


   (c)  the destruction wrought on our roads network due to the high
       axle loads permitted and overloading even under these
       circumstances; and

(2) calls on the Minister to apply to Spoornet the same rebates that are granted to other nonroad users of bulk diesel, eg the fishing and shipping industries.

Mr K W MORWAMOCHE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that DA leader Tony Leon has at long last had the courage to
       admit publicly that his party is dominated by white males and
       that it has to attract more black people; and


   (b)  Mr Leon's late admission that the ANC had brought freedom to all
       South Africans, including Mr Leon;

(2) believes Mr Leon should realise that no matter how many token blacks join the DA, all South Africans know that the ANC is the only party that can bring a better life for all; and

(3) calls on all patriots to join the ANC, as it is the only organisation committed to fundamental transformation in our country.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that -

   (a)  two SBV security guards were killed during Monday's cash-in-
       transit heist near the Morula Sun Casino in Mabopane, north of
       Pretoria, and that a third guard was seriously injured while
       they were on their way to Mabopane to fill automated teller
       machines; and


   (b)  the robbers, who got away with millions of rands, crashed their
       vehicle head-on into the SBV van and used an axe to hack open
       the top of the vehicle to access the cash;


 (2)    further notes that armed robberies are becoming more ruthless by
     the day and that the lives of persons in the security services are
     at risk, and are not valued by mindless criminals who are intent
     on sowing mayhem and destruction in our country; and


 (3)    calls on the Minister of Safety and Security and the police to
     take drastic and immediate action against armed robbers, and to
     send a very clear message that organised criminals will be
     apprehended, tried, convicted and severely punished.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die AEB sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) sy misnoeë uitspreek oor die voorneme van minister Kader Asmal om die name van skole wat die naam dra van bekende Afrikanerleiers van die verlede te laat verander;

(2) erken dat sodanige eensydige naamsveranderinge ‘n bepaalde deel van die bevolking net verder sal vervreem, met nadelige gevolge vir die land as geheel en die onderwys in die besonder;

(3) besef dat die finansiële implikasies vir die ouers in ag geneem moet word; (4) die uitspraak van die Minister dat minderhede se regte in wese die goedgesindheid van die meerderheid is wat nie misbruik moet word nie, strydig is met die gees van ‘n onderhandelde skikking en die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika;

(5) kennis neem van die feit dat Afrikaners nooit hul mag misbruik het om name uit die koloniale verlede, soos Milnerton High, Grey Kollege en Port Shepstone High, te verander nie; en

(6) ‘n beroep op die Minister doen om hierdie kulturele imperialisme te laat vaar en te fokus op die basiese taak van kwaliteit onderwys. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the AEB:

That the House -

(1) expresses its displeasure at Minister Kader Asmal’s intention to change the names of schools that are named after well-known Afrikaner leaders of the past; (2) concedes that such a unilateral changing of names will only estrange one specific population group even further, with negative consequences for the country as a whole and education in particular;

(3) realises that financial implications for the parents should be taken into account;

(5) concedes that the Minister’s remark that minority rights are, in essence, generated by the goodwill of the majority, which should not be abused, is contrary to the spirit of a negotiated settlement and the Constitution of South Africa;

(6) notes that Afrikaners never abused their power to change names from the colonial past, such as Milnerton High, Grey College and Port Shepstone High; and

(7) appeals to the Minister to abandon this cultural imperialism and to focus on the basic task of quality education.]

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the DA-dominated Cape Town unicity has distinguished itself by running the city in favour of the rich and to the detriment of the poor …

[Laughter.]

(2) believes that Mr Marais has developed a reputation for ignoring the wishes of those who do not form the DA’s traditional support base, particularly when they protest against his across-the-board rates increases;

(3) commends the 40 civic organisations that have formed a broad alliance with the intention of taking Mr Marais to court; and

(4) urges them not to stop until Mr Marais has come to his senses, ceases to behave like a dictator, and starts respecting the wishes of all the people and not only that of the privileged few.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr R J HEINE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the disagreements between Ministers Radebe and Erwin about the Coleman Andrews paypacket, and the statement by Mr Saki Macozoma to the effect that the President approved the payment to Mr Andrews;

(2) enquiries of the Government which version of the truth is to be believed by the House and by the public of South Africa; and

(3) calls upon the President to make a statement on the matter.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Dr O BALOYI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House-

(1) regrets the incident in which two guards were killed on Monday in a cash-in-transit heist, in which millions of rands were taken by armed robbers who used an axe to break the SBV vehicle;

(2) further regrets that 402 guards have been killed in the past four years due to these robberies and R256 million have been lost by the cash-in-transit industry over the same period; and

(3) calls upon the Department of Safety and Security to leave no stone unturned in bringing the perpetrators to book.

Mr Z KOTWAL: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Gateway, a financing scheme established to make it easier for poor employed people to obtain housing loans, has failed because major South African banks were hesitant to finance the lower end of the market;

(2) elieves that all South Africans have a right to aspire to owning their own homes, even if they earn less than R3 500 per month, and therefore condemns those banks who do not share this view; and

(3) calls on the Minister of Housing, Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele, and the National Housing Corporation to develop a new financial model that will make housing accessible to all.

[Applause.]

Adv A H GAUM: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem van - (a) die eensydige en stormram-optrede van kommissaris Jackie Selebi, wat daartoe gelei het dat kaptein Johan Colyn van sy speurderspligte onthef is en na die lykshuis op Brits verskuif is; en

   (b)  die bewering dat Selebi met behulp van 'n afluisterapparaat na
       gesprekke tussen James Nkambule en verdagtes geluister het, en
       dat, indien hy sonder 'n regter se toestemming aan sodanige
       afluistering deelgeneem het, hy aan 'n misdryf skuldig is
       waarvoor tot twee jaar gevangenisstraf opgelê kan word; en

(2) ‘n beroep doen op Selebi om hom te bepaal by sy taak om die SAPD behoorlik te bestuur deur onder andere te fokus op die uitskakeling van die grootskaalse personeel- en ander tekorte, en om op te hou om op outoritêre wyse selektief in sekere ondersoeke in te gryp wat hom, en die SAPD, in knaende kontroverse dompel.

[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Adv A H GAUM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move:

That the House -

(1) takes note of -

   (a)  the unilateral and battering-ram reaction of Commissioner Jackie
       Selebi, which led to Captain Johan Colyn being discharged from
       his detective duties and transferred to the mortuary in Brits;
       and


   (b)  the allegation that Selebi, with the aid of a monitoring device,
       listened to conversations between James Nkambule and suspects,
       and that, if he did participate in such bugging without the
       permission of a judge, he is guilty of a crime for which he
       could receive a two year prison sentence; and

(2) appeals to Selebi to confine himself to his task of managing the SAPS properly by, inter alia, focusing on the elimination of the large- scale staff shortages and other deficiencies, and to refrain from selectively intervening in certain investigations in an autocratic manner, thereby plunging himself and the SAPS into constant controversy.

[Interjections.]]

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the horrific fire over the past weekend which claimed the lives of five people at the historic, yet dilapidated, old Drill Hall in Doornfontein, Johannesburg;

(2) further notes the unsympathetic manner in which the police, metro council and Department of Public Works passed the buck, avoiding responsibility for securing the building;

(3) calls upon the Government to urgently house those who have become homeless as a result of this fire; and (4) further calls upon the Ministers of Public Works, of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, and of Housing to effectively devise a comprehensive plan to house homeless people and to protect buildings of national historic importance.

Mrs M S MAINE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the National Development Agency has called in a forensic accounting firm to investigate several contracts to verify that the necessary procedures were followed, and that no irregularities took place;

(2) acknowledges that the NDA, which distributes money from Government and donor organisations to development projects, has been tarnished by reports of improper procedures and practices;

(3) believes that the NDA did the right thing in calling in a forensic accounting firm, because it is essential that the cloud hanging over the agency be removed if confidence in it is to be restored; and

(4) calls on the NDA to ensure that those who are found not to have followed correct procedures are prosecuted.

[Applause.]

                          COMRADES MARATHON

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice: That the House -

 (1)    recognises that the Comrades Marathon is a major event on the
     South African sporting calendar;


 (2)    recognises that in recent years this event has been won by
     runners from other countries; and


 (3)    congratulates Andrew Kelehe on bringing the title back home to
     South Africa by winning the Comrades Marathon, which will serve as
     an inspiration to all South Africans.

Agreed to.

                  CONGRATULATIONS TO RETIEF GOOSEN

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I move without notice: That the House -

 (1)    congratulates golfer Retief Goosen on becoming only the third
     South African to win the US Open; and


 (2)    welcomes his achievement for the recognition it brings to our
     country and for the inspiration it provides to young South African
     golfers.

Agreed to.

                   PRESIDENT THABO MBEKI'S BIRTHDAY
                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that yesterday was the 59th birthday of President Thabo Mbeki;

(2) further notes that the President has made an important contribution to national unity, democracy and development in our country; and

(3) congratulates President Mbeki on this occasion and wishes him health and strength in fulfilling his role as the leader of our nation.

Agreed to.

                   ORDER OF PRECEDENCE: QUESTIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 29(8), Questions shall not have precedence on Wednesday, 20 June 2001.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 20 - Defence:

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, hon members of the National Assembly, invited guests, may I start off by acknowledging amongst the visitors this morning 2nd Lt Macauley, who is the first black woman pilot of the SA National Defence Force. [Applause.]

The end of the Cold War and a subsequent changing world situation have imposed constraints on all defence forces worldwide. The absence of a direct military challenge allows countries to focus on economic, rather than military, growth and expenditure. In this context, the disparity between the rich and developed North and the poor and underdeveloped South looms large.

Conflict on our continent is derived from the legacy of colonialism and the Cold War, wherein corrupt governments were supported for the economic benefit of the North. It is also the result of an unequal access to resources. Conflict must be eliminated if we are to stabilise, develop and move towards prosperity. But the resolution of conflict in underdeveloped regions must be initiated and led by the nations affected with, of course, the support of the North. It is against this backdrop that South Africa’s defence expenditure must be understood.

The principal responsibility of the Department of Defence is to protect South Africa’s sovereignty and to safeguard her territorial integrity effectively and efficiently. Today we understand South Africa’s security to incorporate political, economic, social and environmental matters. Therefore, conflict beyond our borders potentially impacts on our security. To defend South Africa and protect her territorial integrity, we must maintain our core capabilities, which are long-term, both in acquisition and payment. Security, however, in its broader sense of socioeconomic imperatives, is more immediate. My Deputy Minister will be addressing some aspects of transformation, legislation and other challenges posed by HIV and other problems.

The responsibility facing the Department of Defence is to maintain a core force that is able to meet its commitments to deal with a wide range of contingencies. Such a core force must have the capacity to expand to an appropriate size when necessary. External military threats, internal threats to the constitutional order, the promotion of regional security through defence co-operation within the SADC framework, and the promotion of international security through participation in peace operations and military co-operation in support of our foreign policy goals, are among the contingencies we must prepare for.

At present we are contributing military capacity for regional and international peace support operations. The fluidity of the regional environment increases the likelihood of an escalation in peace support demands on South Africa. As the representative of a country committed to stability, democracy, and good governance, the SANDF must be in a position to fulfil its obligations when called upon to intervene.

We continue to allocate resources to a number of other secondary functions. For instance, our support for the police continues. This year alone it has involved 3 580 men and women from the SANDF and has cost us more than R109 million. We are hoping that the creation of a rapid deployment stability force by the SA Police Service will release increasing numbers of members of the SANDF from some day-to-day involvement with police functions.

The SANDF also supports a number of other departments, and has provided a range of excellent services. The SANDF’s response to a number of emergencies has justifiably been praised everywhere. Domestically, and in the recent past, these services have ranged from active involvement in fighting the cholera epidemic and foot-and-mouth disease to assisting with the flood relief, repairing damaged infrastructure after tornadoes and heavy rains, building temporary bridges and fire fighting.

We are also involved in safeguarding our marine coastal resources. The SANDF assisted with the securing of local government elections and four other major events of national and international importance during the past year. Again, this year the SANDF deployed 106 air force members for flood relief in Mozambique. Clearly, a significant portion of our budget goes towards providing these services.

The second challenge facing the department is aligning our policies, as set out in the White Paper and the Defence Review, with our budget. I want to quote from the White Paper where it says:

Defence policy should be in harmony with all other aspects of Government policy, particularly foreign policy and national security policy.

The Defence Review was, in effect, a business plan for the implementation of the White Paper. That White Paper dictated that we change from an offensive to a defensive military posture, and I am glad to report that we have now attained that objective.

However, because of increased and increasing regional, continental and international demands being made on our country, we must take the process further. Whilst the Defence Review remains appropriate in the wider sense, the time may have come for some adjustments to be made. To that end, we are conducting a military strategic appreciation of our capabilities, in order to assess the extent to which we are currently able to carry out our constitutional responsibilities and implement strategic decisions.

This, if I may say so, will probably require the mere reprioritisation of activities and capabilities in consultation with Parliament. I have observed that there has been some sense in that some felt that we may well have veered away from the Defence Review, without consulting Parliament. May I say that it is impossible for the department to do so without consulting and getting a fresh mandate from Parliament. We will be reporting to Parliament, through the defence committees, on the outcome of this process of military strategic appreciation.

With regard to new technologies that are at the heart of the strategic defence packages, technical training has to be adjusted and upgraded. We remain committed to the strategic packages. We are pleased to report that the contracts are on track. The first leg of the process is nearly completed and the defence industrial participation programmes are going well.

We need to state very clearly that the strategic packages remain valid, because they provide the equipment we need for both our core business and our secondary obligations. I welcome the debate on the strategic packages. For the first time in our history, the acquisition of armaments has been carried out in a transparent fashion. South African citizens can and must scrutinise the performance of the executive. This is unprecedented in our history.

Let me remind members that the establishment and maintenance of a balanced VIP air transport capability was approved during the 2000-01 financial year. I can report now that we have proceeded to fulfil our task of maintaining that capability by ordering a further VIP transport aircraft, the details of which have been made known to the House via the committees.

We live in a fast-changing world and the department must adapt to the changing regional situation. For that change to be positive, we must all turn the soil so that the Millennium Action Plan can take root. In her budget address, the Minister of Foreign Affairs identified the challenges and priorities facing Africa and South Africa and cited partnerships at various levels as crucial to the successful implementation of the plan. In the areas of collective regional peace and stability, it is incumbent on defence to forge such partnerships.

Therefore, we have been involved in a number of exercises. Allow me to cite a few examples of where we have been hard at work on this score. We have the task of convening Ministers of Defence from Rwanda, Uganda, Zimbabwe and the Democratic Republic of Congo to develop strategies of disarming the armed groups in accordance with the Lusaka Ceasefire and Standstill Agreement. This project is now awaiting the completion of deployment of phase 2 of Monuc.

Secondly, South Africa, Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, and Belgium have been invited to prepare for the securing of the peace process in Burundi. Once again, we have recommended to the President that South Africa accept the invitation and play a part in this process. We have already scheduled the first meeting, which will cover contingency planning in this regard.

With regard to SADC, as a community of nations, I would like to remind the House that SADC adopted the Protocol on Politics, Defence and Security Co- operation, which is an agreement at political level on how to deal with major conflicts which destabilise or may destabilise our region in the future. The ratification of the Protocol, which defines the work of the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security by the Heads of State, will mark an important milestone in the achievement of regional security and confidence- building measures.

Flowing directly from the Protocol is the need for a comprehensive

regional pact, the drafting of which started immediately after the 22nd session of the Interstate Defence and Security Committee, which was held in Maseru last month. It is intended, at this stage, that the collective defence pact must deal with the issues of conflicts between SADC states and states outside of SADC, between SADC states themselves where interstate tension may arise between signatories as well as intrastate conflicts. This pact must serve before the next summit of Heads of State in August. The pact will provide a modus operandi of how to intervene in conflict situations and prescribe proportional contributions to be made by every member state. No country can, single-handedly, shoulder the responsibility for the security of the region.

Members will appreciate that all of the activities mentioned above require capacity. To qualitatively increase the capacity of the Defence Secretariat is, therefore, our fifth challenge. The secretariat remains the Minister’s resource base for his civil oversight role. The internal audit committee I set up last year has made three reports thus far, focusing on four areas of weakness. These are being attended to as a matter of urgency.

It is, unfortunately, my duty to report to hon members that crime entailing financial loss to the state has been uncovered within the department. We take this very seriously at all senior levels of the department. We have uncovered syndicates operating within some of our bases. The chief financial officer, under the direction of the secretary, is setting up internal control mechanisms. A holistic approach that includes the military police and the inspector-general will be used. This approach will include professionalising the audit function and supplementing it with an external forensic capacity.

With regard to the curbing of losses and effecting improvements in our efficiency, I have directed the chief executive officer of Armscor to conduct an investigation into a more cost-effective utilisation of Simon’s Town Naval Dockyard. It is expected that the workgroup doing the investigation will present a range of viable models to me by the end of the year.

With regard to problems of transition, I wish to advise the House that the final report of the ministerial inquiry is being edited at this stage. I hope to be able to share its findings with Cabinet as well as the House before Parliament rises. In the meantime, I wish to inform the House that following the interim report, the Defence Staff Council looked at ways of addressing the problems which were identified earlier on. The situation is at present relatively stable. Nevertheless, further efforts need to be made to overcome these problems.

Ensuring constant access to high-quality personnel is a challenge for any defence force. For us, in South Africa, this challenge also provides us with an opportunity to empower some of the best and brightest of our young people with the skills and disciplines they will require throughout their lives. Consequently, we are recommending to the country the introduction of a service system.

The service system will form the first career stage for young, preferably under 22, Grade 12 school-leavers to serve in the SA National Defence Force on a voluntary basis for two years. It is proposed that during their first year of service they will undergo basic military training, and some functional training to prepare them for civilianisation later on if they choose not to be members of the National Defence Force on a permanent basis. Nevertheless, those who choose not to follow a military career will be encouraged to serve in the reserve force.

This will enable the SA National Defence Force to retain the necessary average age and best physical capacity among the bulk of the members of the National Defence Force. These young people, in turn, will receive training that is beneficial to them in their own private capacities. We aim to have an annual intake of 10 000 young people.

Finally, I would like to extend my thanks to the Defence Secretary, Mr January Masilela, who is accounting officer and head of department, and to the Defence Secretariat as a whole. I would like to thank the Chief of the SA National Defence Force, Gen Siphiwe Nyanda, the four chiefs of the services and the SA National Defence Force as a whole, for the tremendous job they have done this year.

I would like to recognise the men and women in the military bases around the country, and our teams in the DRC, Eritrea and Ethiopia. They serve as symbols of courage, discipline and dedication, and our Government and people are proud of their sterling efforts. [Applause.]

My thanks go to Armscor, our acquisition agency. I would also like to thank the British Military Advisory Training Team headed now by Brig Hughes. I repeat, once again, my gratitude to Brig Killin, who has since left. Thanks are also due to the Civic Education Monitoring and Advisory Committee and all those who have participated in working with the department, from NGOs and universities.

I would also like to thank Dr Setai, Gen Geldenhuys, Col Mbongwa and Ms Lamani, who are working to complete the final report of the inquiry. My thanks to Roy Anderson and Admiral Bekker who have headed the independent audit committee. I also thank Roeland Hudson Bennett and the Castle Control Board for their open-mindedness and participation in helping to map the way forward for the Castle.

I thank the team at the Ministry and, most importantly in this forum, allow me to thank the three chairs of the parliamentary committees. Lastly, my gratitude to my family who have allowed me to continue to serve in this capacity. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Before calling on the next speaker, I wish to acknowledge the presence in the gallery of the former Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly, Dr Ranchod. We hope you will visit us more frequently Dr Ranchod. [Applause.]

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Madam Speaker, the increase of R2,086 billion in the Defence Budget for the financial year 2001-02, results in a substantial increase of 15% from the previous financial year of R13,7 billion to R15,8 billion.

A reflection of the budgetary spending on Defence by the Government in the past year has witnessed limited participation in peace-supporting operations. It furthermore proved to be a turbulent year for Government with regard to the strategic defence procurement package, currently estimated to be costing the taxpayer in excess of R43,8 billion, up from the original more modest figure of R30,2 billion during December 1999.

Currently, international trends indicate that defence forces are rightsizing and downsizing, both of which appear to be commonplace, with ever-increasing demands made in the spheres of social needs and development. Owing to the decision taken by the executive, it has experienced severe criticism for the political decision to allocate vast sums of money to defence equipment in the face of possibly more pressing demands domestically - such as poverty alleviation measures, housing and infrastructure. The executive’s own advisers advised them that the decision to approve the strategic defence procurement deal was, to an extent, the size of appetite Government had for risk, both politically and financially.

An important objective in any democratic society is to ensure transparency and openness within government. It is the constitutionally entrenched oversight role of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence and the Portfolio Committee on Defence to exercise due and diligent oversight into the actions of the department. Communication between the department and the committees is poor, if not nonexistent, with the Minister of Defence playing hide-and-seek with both committees. Recent attempts by both chairpersons to ensure the presence of members of the Defence Secretariat to attend committee hearings is a case in point.

On the invitation of the United States embassy and the European Command, I recently formed part of a delegation of six members to the United States of America. This was, firstly, to attend a distinguished visitors’ tour, which was followed by attending the fifth annual defence committee meeting held between the United States and the South African Defence department. My thanks and gratitude go to Col Nick Nicholson, especially, from the United States embassy, and to Mr McConnell from the Pentagon for the invitation to and effort in making this fifth annual conference a major success.

It was the emphasis on transparent, open and frank dialogue between the Pentagon and Capitol Hill which was most notable. Precise details of issues relating to the United States army, from which we could find guidance in respect of a number of issues, were presented by Pentagon officials. This approach of frankness and openness was subsequently confirmed by members of the House of Representatives and by the professional staffers of members of the Senate of the United States.

Such open and frank dialogue, unfortunately, does not exist between our Parliament and the Department of Defence. This approach to openness and frankness in the USA has, despite the levels of mistrust between the Pentagon and Congress, formed the basis of their own attempts to rightsize and downsize their defence force. I see that our chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Ms Thandi Modise, is also not here today.

It is important to note that in order for our Defence Force to maintain strategic relevance in our region, the local defence industry will have to become internationally competitive. This is necessary, especially in the light of the fact that smaller, highly technical and advanced military equipment is ever-increasingly needed to maintain relevance in the changing strategic environment and to fulfil its role as a deterrent force.

We have, furthermore, reached the era of joint force interoperability - that is, advanced interoperability between the established arms of service, being the army, the air force and the navy. This concept appears to be the answer to the success of smaller, but more effective, defence forces throughout the world. This concept of interoperability will eventually have to be extended to other forces in the South African defence co-operation region should the Defence Force decide, at the request of the United Nations, to participate more extensively in peace-support operations.

At present the SA National Defence Force has approximately 200 officers with the rank of general, with a total force of approximately 74 000 members. In comparison, the German armed forces have 190 general officers for a force of 320 000 members, whilst the United States marine corps has 70 general officers for a full-time force of 170 000. It is therefore clear that, in comparison, we have far too many generals and far too few deployable troops. Too many troops are not deployable owing, inter alia, to medical reasons and a lack of combat-readiness. In addition, too many troops, of which the average age is 32, are too old to be foot soldiers with the rank of private in the army.

At a press conference on 4 June this year held by our party, the Democratic Alliance, and after a thorough investigation into all aspects of the strategic defence procurement deal, the following decision, which we reconfirm, was taken in respect thereto.

Firstly, the Government should honour only those parts of the strategic defence procurement contract - which can be divided into three main tranches - to which it is committed. It should not take up its options to purchase a further 12 Hawk and 9 Gripen aircraft, which would lead to a saving of approximately 28,8% on the full contract price.

The saving would be effected by not exercising options two and three, which form part of the contract to purchase the additional 12 Hawk and 9 Gripen aircraft. The contract price was initially valued at R30,2 billion, which has, within a period of approximately 18 months, escalated to a figure of between R43 billion and R50 billion, raising fundamental issues of affordability, should the decision to exercise all three options be taken.

In the light of fierce penalties forming part of the contract should the contract as a whole be cancelled, the DA supports the purchasing of the four corvettes and three submarines as required by the navy, and nine Gripen aircraft and four Hawk training aircraft as required by the SANDF. The DA also supports the purchasing of 30 Augusta helicopters.

In terms of the latest figures of the contract price escalating to R43,8 billion, an approximate amount of R13 billion will still be available to Government in the long term to enable them to introduce measures for poverty alleviation and the provision of infrastructural, educational and other social developmental needs, should the additional aircraft not be purchased.

A donation of US$1 million, or approximately R8 million, by the United States government to ensure repairs to the C130 fleet of air transport carriers should be allocated to maintain the flying operability required by the SANDF for, inter alia, support measures in Africa, should the need arise. The United State’s department of defence also indicated that more funding might be forthcoming during the next financial year for purposes of maintaining the serviceability of the C130 aircraft fleet.

A Defence Review for the SANDF was conducted during 1997-98. However, a period of approximately four years has elapsed during which the demands and conditions prevailing at the time have changed, necessitating the need for a review of the existing Defence Review to adapt to the changed environment in which the SANDF has to operate.

Requests for assistance in peace-support operations within the sub-Saharan region and increased expectations to take a more leading role within the SADC region have been increasingly forthcoming from the United Nations. During the recent annual conference in the United States, assistance was offered to our Government in respect of the failed programme relating to the service corps. The Government’s dismal failure in this regard has been met with an extended hand of assistance with regard to the development of human and vocational skills of Defence Force members leaving the service.

This is important to a developing country, which would be failing society if members of the Defence Force were to leave without receiving any skills beneficial not only to themselves, but also to the general public. These include skills relating to projects such as the development of basic infrastructure and the building of roads.

It is also important to note that the basic provision for spending within the special defence account in respect of purchases will escalate from R4,5 billion for the present financial year of 2000-01 to the provision of R5,8 billion for 2001-02, R6,3 billion for 2002-03 and R7 billion for the following year. This is only the foreseen cost the taxpayer will have to pay for the decision to embark on the strategic defence procurement packages.

The SANDF furthermore provides continued support to the SAPS to control high-risk border areas and to ensure security in certain areas. This task is, however, not a primary task of the Defence Force and leads to a lack of morale among members of the Defence Force. The DA therefore calls on the Minister of Safety and Security to ensure that, within the coming financial year, the SAPS is in a position to perform those duties in terms of the Constitution in order to relieve the Defence Force of these tasks.

Mr J N MASHIMBYE: Madam Speaker, Minister Lekota, senior officers of the SA National Defence Force, members of the SANDF, hon members, the people in the gallery are very special people. Men and women in uniform are very special people. These are people who are prepared to serve South Africa, if need be with their lives. They are prepared to pay the supreme sacrifice. [Applause.]

Speaking in a debate on defence, a defence force that consists of these special people, it would be a dereliction of duty on my part, especially as a member of the ruling party, which has to govern, to stray from my responsibility, which is to ensure that these special men and women get a good deal from us as public representatives. It would be wrong to stray from that, and do other things which are inconsequential. I will therefore stick to my task.

It is appropriate to always remember those who have come before us in political office in the service of the SANDF. In 1994, when we came here, there was Minister Joe Modise, former Minister of Defence, and his deputy, Ronnie Kasrils, and the first chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence in Parliament, Comrade Tony Yengeni. I wish to pay tribute to these comrades. I would also like to mention only one officer, Lt Gen Masondo, who will be retiring in a few months. These comrades walked a path that seemed impossible. They presided over a process of combining seven military forces into one SA National Defence Force. People can say whatever they like, but Joe Modise and the entire defence team have helped lay a solid foundation for the process of building a single and strong SANDF.

As we confront a debate on our defence sector for the forthcoming year, it is worthwhile, firstly, to recollect the immensity of the challenges we have confronted within defence over the past seven years. We have, largely successfully, managed one of the most difficult and profound defence transformations that a postconflict and newly democratic state has had to face during the post Cold War period.

Secondly, we need to be continually aware of the fact that our national defence is not a party-political issue; that the preservation of sovereignty and territorial integrity, and the maintenance of the morale of our men and women in uniform, is an issue of national concern, and indeed pride. Although our defence transformation has not been without its problems, and many of these problems remain with us today, it has been a transformation process that has recorded unprecedented successes.

Let us examine the backdrop against which these occurred. This takes place against a historical backdrop in which the defence function has been the subject of much contest and controversy. The facts are well known in this regard. The history of 20th century defence has been the history of a defence force dominated by white officers, and largely serving white interests, although its role in the Second World War is clearly an exception in this regard.

Within the country the armed forces have been used against the people of this country. We can recall incidents like the 1915 rebellion and the 1922 white mineworkers’ strike. They were also used against the black miners in 1946 and the children of Soweto in 1976, and during various states of emergency in the 1980s.

But, clearly, the election of the new government in the country’s first nonracial and democratic elections in 1994 signalled a major shift in the country’s political, strategic and economic environments, and, to a certain extent, its intellectual environment. This impacted on all areas of state and society, and defence was no exception in this regard. Apart from the urgency of integrating the country’s seven different armed forces into a cohesive and united National Defence Force, it was imperative to translate the challenges of the new environment into appropriate policies and structures for the Department of Defence.

A range of challenges were evident here. These ranged from the need to rightsize the Defence Force to the need to ensure representivity within its structures via equal opportunity and affirmative action programmes and the need to prepare for and participate in peace- support operations and regional security agreements. There was also the importance of ensuring civil control over the affairs of the military via the creation of a civilian Defence Secretariat and the need to redefine military professionalism to ensure that it represented all traditions and values within our diverse and increasingly rich society.

Let us dwell on these issues in more detail. It is instructive for members of the House to note that we have managed to integrate no fewer than eight different military and paramilitary formations into a cohesive National Defence Force. This is an integration process unrivalled and historically unparalleled, and one that we can be proud of.

A question remains, however: Has this process worked? I would venture to say that it has. In substantiating this I will be using two criteria. The first one is the simple fact that our

SANDF has, since 1994, continued to deliver those services that the nation expects of it and that it is constitutionally mandated to deliver. Notwithstanding the considerable differences that pervaded the organisation at the time of integration, astute political leadership and military pragmatism resulted in a situation where our armed forces rose above their differences and rallied together in defence of our democratic Constitution.

The second criterion is the transformation of our Defence Force in such a manner that it can robustly claim to be more of a representative and legitimate organisation than it was previously. We are beginning to achieve and witness the birth of a defence force that is more demographically representative than any of the previous defence forces this country has seen. Another success is the extent to which we have managed to consolidate democratic civilian relations within our country. The fears of military intervention so toted during the pre-1994 period are now a distant memory.

Parliament is indisputably in control of the political processes, and the activities of the SANDF are robustly overseen by our Ministry of Defence. One of the key performance indicators in this regard is the extent to which we as the Joint Standing Committee on Defence and the Portfolio Committee on Defence have been the co-drivers and the overseers of the entire national defence policy function, most notably the White Paper on Defence and the Defence Review.

What about the present challenges? I would venture to say that they are basically sixfold. The first is to ensure that the policy, which we have devised and which is currently encapsulated in the Defence Review, is continuously reassessed against the backdrop of changing strategic and fiscal circumstances. No policy is cast in concrete, and one of the key aspects of good governance is to ensure that both Government and the legislature revise and revisit the defence policy which we jointly formulated.

We - all parties in the House - formulated the Defence Review on the basis of what we saw our national defence priorities to be. We decided on this basis to procure the equipment which we are currently in the process of securing. We need this equipment, but we also need to ensure that the equipment we have procured is used in as flexible a manner as possible.

We face a wide range of tasks in ensuring that the SANDF is used as an instrument of Government policy, and we need to continually revise or adjust the policy upon which this is based. For this reason, we are adjusting the defence policy in whose formulation we, the JSCD, play such an important role. This does not imply a crisis or a lack of confidence in our present policy, but merely reflects our responsibility as the elected legislators to ensure that policy, the cornerstone of good governance, remains consistent with strategic and budgetary realities.

The theoretical and intellectual environment within which the debate is taking place has substantially changed from that of previous years. Firstly, the debate is much more open, transparent and accessible than it was before. Secondly, it has escaped much of the intellectual parochialism that pervaded defence debates during the Cold War period. Let me explain this further. Whilst the Defence White Paper clearly states that the primary function of the National Defence Force is that of the preservation of the country’s territorial integrity and sovereignty, which is also mandated by the Constitution, it also recognises a range of other functions that we are required to perform. These include peace-support operations, support to the SA Police Service, and a range of other tasks, which we can do by virtue of our organisational and managerial abilities.

We need, therefore, to move away from a threat-based approach, with regard to designing our armed forces, and ask ourselves what defence forces are for, rather than asking what they are against. Defence forces are clearly there for the protection of the country against external threat, they are also there for the furtherance of national interests, when so ordered into service by the government of the day, and as such are used for other important functions such as internal stability and regional security. In essence, armed forces are there as an instrument of national policy management and are used in this role when the capabilities of other state departments to accomplish these national policy objectives are limited and/or are nonexistent.

Indeed, the history of this country shows that we have always used our armed forces for secondary functions, for example, the 1915 rebellion, the 1922 strike, the First World War, the Second World War and the Korean War. We must obviously take this into account when we design our Defence Force and avoid the myopic view of no threat, therefore no defence force. This is only one aspect of defence force capabilities.

Let me turn to another issue. We need to ensure the transformation of the part-time forces. We are primarily a citizen-based defence force, and have been historically so. Even more importantly, within the current situation it is vital for us to ensure that the principle of the citizen in uniform remains deeply enshrined in our military culture. The part-time force should become representative of the country’s diverse communities. It should reflect the country’s diverse military traditions and it should be deployed in the service of all sectors of the community. This is a major challenge for the Defence Review to address.

It is important to ensure that we optimise both our force design and our force structure in a cost-effective manner. We must eliminate unnecessary wastage, duplication and expenditure. The issue of representivity needs to be addressed. We must formulate, for both internal and external consideration, a policy on equal opportunity and affirmative action for our department. Such representivity must be achieved both horizontally and vertically within both the full-time and the part-time force.

Demobilisation and rationalisation remain one of our most important challenges of the future. We must ensure that all women and men, regardless of military background or region, are reintegrated into civil society in a manner that does not prejudice their individual welfare or overall social stability. We have made moves in this direction, but need to ensure that the strategy moves beyond the realm of the Department of Defence and becomes a national concern.

Finally, we need to ensure that civil oversight, the universal principle of any functioning democracy, remains solidly inscribed in the functioning of our defence community. We must resolutely and consistently endeavour to ensure that the capacity of our Ministry of Defence and our Defence Secretariat to oversee and manage our defence function is robustly maintained. I must repeat that representivity must be seen and felt at the implementation level of the hierarchy of the armed forces.

These people at the junior level, some of them sitting in the gallery, must be able to see representivity at work. We must move away from a situation in which there are only 75 colonels from the nonstatutory forces and 563 from the old SADF. We must make sure that with every footstep they march, their heartbeat is always felt in our pulse. [Applause.]

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Madam Speaker, hon members, our honoured guests, I want to start off by encoring what our Secretary of Defence wrote, and I quote: We have had enough policy, enough plans and enough projects. The greatest challenge facing us today is implementation.

This could well be a message to all our Government departments. Yes, all our departments develop the best policies, plan well and do everything, except implement the policies they have worked on. From ancient times to the present day, the role of a defence force has always remained the same: to defend its country and its citizens.

Our Defence Force has, as members know, three components: the army, the air force and the naval forces. In order for our Defence Force to defend our sovereignty and territory, South Africa is constitutionally obliged to maintain a professional and technologically sophisticated core peacetime defence capability, which is accountable to the people. However, for our Defence Force to carry out its obligations it needs more money.

What is more important is that the SA National Defence Force is also a creator of employment. The Defence Force needs engineers, doctors, nurses, caterers, communication experts, mechanics, you name it. The Defence Force is expected to assist in peacekeeping and in acting quickly and efficiently in times of crisis and wars. Only when we have a proper defence policy, which is implementable, and only when we have an appropriate budget allocation can our forces be acknowledged, acceptable and well-disciplined.

I find it very unacceptable when people complain about funding for our Defence Force. They argue by saying, ``Who are we fighting against? Who are we at war with?’’ Yet they forget that our Defence Force is also fighting a great war in this country. Yes, we are at war. We are at war against crime, we are at war to maintain the safety of our citizens. Even our Police Service would be helpless with rebuilding this country into a new democratic society if it were not for our Defence Force. For this they need, and South Africa needs, a well-equipped army.

Our soldiers have been deployed in peacekeeping operations internally and externally. Let us not repeat the mistake which the then government made with their soldiers, particularly when they returned from World War II - our black, Indian and coloured soldiers who fought for a shilling a day. When they came back they were given a bicycle and a coat to say thank you. [Interjections.] The reaction of the white ex-servicemen was only to kick out Jan Smuts and replace him with another animal, Dr Malan, and that made our lives a misery. [Applause.]

I must bring it to the attention of the hon the Minister that the retrenchment of the black, Indian and coloured soldiers, through the Department of Defence’s rationalisation process was, in a sense, discriminatory against the soldiers. I hate it! The whole process of rationalisation favoured white soldiers. Even the remuneration of these soldiers was also discriminatory. Why is this?

I would like to appeal to the hon the Minister to appoint a committee to investigate this discrepancy that has arisen. On the other hand, the Minister should know that our camps are bedevilled by racism which still exists there. Whereas we accept that laws cannot change people’s attitudes, I believe we cannot close our eyes and ignore this cancer that is present in our camps. Whether it is racism from whites or blacks, we should get rid of it immediately.

Whereas the Defence budget has increased by R2,1 million, what we must not lose sight of is that 66% of this increase results from increased spending on the strategic arms procurement programme. The arms procurement deal therefore swallows the budget to a large extent. If the increased spending on the arms deal were taken off the present budget, the increase would only be 4,9%, as opposed to 14,5%.

However, it is pleasing that additional funding has been made available for training in the air force and the navy, to prepare for the receipt of new aircraft and maritime assets, as part of the arms procurement deal. What is of great concern and, indeed, disturbing is that although the allocation to the South African Military Health Service increases by R124 million, no specific provision has been made for fighting HIV/Aids, in the Defence Force. It is alleged that the incidence of HIV/Aids is much higher than we are led to believe by our officers in the army. If that were, indeed, the case, one would have expected to see a specific, considerable allocation to help fight this disease.

To those brave, dedicated men and women of the SA National Defence Force sitting there, who patrol our borders, and are engaged in peacekeeping and assist in fighting crime, let me say that at the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will always remember their work. Their valuable work will always be appreciated.

In ending, I want to say that no country - I repeat, no country - can ever prosper and command respect in the world without a strong, well-equipped defence force. Therefore we need more money for this, if for nothing else. [Applause.]

Mr L V J NGCULU: Madam Speaker, Minister of Defence, Deputy Minister of Defence, three years ago we celebrated the heroic feat of the youth of 1976, who, armed with stones and dustbin lids, challenged the might of the apartheid machinery. We commemorated the generation of 1976 who, when they challenged the might of oppression, paid the supreme sacrifice, because they dared to demand a better education. Now, 25 years later, we stand on this podium in a democratic Parliament to support the Defence budget.

On 5 June 2001 the DA convened a press conference where they announced that they would not be supporting the strategic packages. The DA has been consistent in its quest to question the credibility of our Government in its intention to re-equip the SANDF. What is never mentioned about the effects of the isolation of South Africa is its impact on the weapons system of the SANDF.

The democratic Government recognised the need to restore the core capabilities which will make the new SANDF able to meet its core commitment as defined in the Constitution. In the past the defence force relied on the army, which was a pillar, and therefore any other interest was actually neglected. To meet the perceived threat, therefore, the army was enlarged and well-equipped and other arms of the service were abjectly neglected. It was taking cognisance of this in 1994 that the Government considered the need to ensure a refocus of this approach.

The new Government, steeped in the ANC’s traditions of accountability, openness and public participation, recognised that changes had to be effected in line with this tradition in order to equip the SANDF. Parliament and civil society at large had to play a critical role, hence the Defence Review and the White Paper on Defence. After the adoption of the White Paper in 1996, the Government decided to embark on a Defence Review, which would indicate how the SANDF should be equipped.

The Defence Review process saw a number of stakeholders, ranging from Parliament and the Defence Force to defence specialists, academics, NGOs, individuals and other civil society organisations, participating in a process hailed as seminal in South Africa. The Defence Review accepted that there was a need and a responsibility on the part of Government to equip the SANDF. It is this Defence Review adopted by Parliament in April 1998 which informed us how to equip the SANDF.

It is sometimes distressing to sit in this House and watch the opposition displaying such a level of dishonesty and amnesia when dealing with the current acquisition programmes. We should ask the DA whether anything has changed in a mere three years to warrant their opposition to the defence packages. Never in the history of South Africa have we ever seen an opposition that is so hostile to change. [Applause.]

When some of them were called upon to rise up against the apartheid regime, they decided to legitimise the apartheid regime by gracing these benches. Some, when they were told of corruption regarding the special defence account, virtually in each Vote, never questioned, but voted. When millions of rands were squandered on these special defence accounts in the name of white supremacy, they sat lamely in this House without protest. Unaccountability and corruption were accepted in the name of the volk and white supremacy.

Must we forget those funds from the special defence account which were channelled to Jeugkrag in order to indoctrinate the white youth? Some of the members of Jeugkrag, such as the deputy leader of the DA, Marthinus van Schalkwyk and another member of Parliament, Dirk Bakker, sit in this House today in the DA benches. Others are found in the office of the DP Chief Whip. The leader of the DA, whilst serving the SADF, became a propagandist of apartheid corruption. Even today it is surprising to me, looking at the speakers’ list, that one finds an NP speakerÿ.ÿ.ÿ.

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, will the hon member take a question?

Mr L V J NGCULU: Yes.

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, I wonder whether the hon member is aware that the wife of the hon Van Schalkwyk was also a beneficiary of Jeugkrag, having been the secretary of Jeugkrag in those days? [Laughter.]

Mr L V J NGCULU: How, then, can we be surprised when they today stand loftily and yearn for the good old days when accountability and transparency were treated with disdain? How, then, can we be surprised when the DA mayor of Cape Town forges signatures in order to pursue narrow political ends? That is why we in the ANC are never going to be distracted from the path we have chosen, to have a defence force founded on the principles of the rule of law and capable of meeting its core commitment, which is the defence of South Africa and its people.

The Vote we are debating today should be supported by all those committed to a peaceful and prosperous South Africa. We supported the hon the Minister when he announced the acquisition of the Lear jet for the President, and we will continue to do so. The leadership of our Government travel all over the world selling South Africa to the community of nations. The recent visit of the President to the UK was a resounding success. The prophets of doom and gloom were left in awe of this success. Wherever the President went, the government and the people of Great Britain rolled out the red carpet for him. The presidential jet fits in with these demands of our Government. The President deserves it because South Africa deserves it.

For our Government to continue to fulfil its obligations effectively and efficiently, it must be properly equipped. It would be scandalous for any political party not to support the acquisition of the presidential jet. Verwoerd, Vorster, Botha and so on never needed special jets because they had nowhere to land. The jet has therefore been acquired because South Africa is a democracy. In other words, it is the dividend of democracy. [Laughter.]

We are happy that the transformation process is moving forward unimpeded. We should always remind ourselves that integrating seven different armies, each with its own culture, traditions and military history into a defence force committed to a common culture and identity, is something we should all applaud. We readily admit that there is a still a long way to go. We still find pockets of racism and indiscipline in the Defence Force. We are happy to learn that the officers in the SANDF are committed to addressing this problem. It would, of course, be naive of us to expect no racism in the Defence Force when the broader society is grappling with this demon. What is encouraging is that racism stands condemned in the Defence Force. We once more should remember all those who died in the course of addressing these problems.

As I stand at this podium, I am convinced that the gloom merchants who often conveniently ignore the sheer scale and pace of change that the SANDF has been subjected to during the last seven years will be proved wrong. We are confident that transformation in all its forms, reduced budgets and fundamental restructuring would dilute the capability and morale of most advanced conventional forces. Yet the SANDF, which still has a long way to go, is indeed a miracle in that so much has been achieved in such a short space of time. We are pleased to see that now the Defence Force is no longer seen as a place to save for other budgets.

The Department of Defence appreciates that the allocation in this financial year has been stabilised. We hope that this situation will continue to improve in order for the Defence Force to be equal to its task. I am sure that the hon the Minister is aware of the pressures on the Defence budget, in particular with reference to supporting the SAPS and peace-support operations, and those from other departments. We hope, as we support all those elements, that the Government will also consider these pressures on the budget.

I would be failing in my duty if I did not congratulate the Minister and the executive on the decision they took in recognising the services of the nonstatutory forces in regard to pensions. It has always pained many of us to note that the many years during which people served in the liberation movement without hope of gain have never been recognised as service in the democratic South Africa. Therefore the decision to recognise their service will go a long way in cementing reconciliation and a spirit of co-operation in the Defence Force.

We have watched the Minister with pride and admiration, seeing him trying to confront the problems of the Defence Force with boldness and humility. Whatever the issues and problems, the Minister was never found wanting. Only an ANC Minister of Defence could have done this, steering defence on a road of democracy and partnership in the region. Only the ANC could have welded such a defence force, so that as we debate this budget today, gracing these halls and this Chamber are the men and women who have served the liberation movement by fighting for freedom.

When we celebrated 16 June, we also knew that there were those from the Luthuli, the June 16 and the Mokhada detachments who today are senior officers and NCOs in the National Defence Force. We salute them. [Applause.] It is because of their blood, sacrifices and honour in serving that today we can all guarantee that South Africa is a democracy which is irreversible and unstoppable. We would like to support the Minister’s budget and wish him strength in his sterling work. [Applause.]

Mr M E MABETA: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, a few days ago I watched the hon member of Parliament Dr Jordan, a man who rarely shows emotion, speak with great pain. He was addressing us on the issue of the relationship between the state and Government interests. For those who do not like to follow wise words, because they come from a particular political party, I want to say that the most important line there was simply that here we differ on two lines, the empty-minded and the open-minded. [Interjections.]

I want to assure the hon member that the Portfolio Committee on Defence, the Joint Standing Committee on Defence and the national advisory board on affirmative action, which is headed by the Defence Secretary, are totally open-minded units. Also, a few days ago, hon Minister Geraldine Moleketi also spoke with pain about the danger and the persuasive impact of pessimism in the manner in which people talk about Africa. I want to assure hon members that I will not talk from an empty mind or with pessimism.

The primary task of a defence force in South Africa is to ensure the security of our nation and peace in the country and along its borders. We can be thankful to our Defence Force, because for the past seven years we have not been invaded or threatened, which is unique in Africa.

Our beautiful and rich country is free and recognised internationally as a truly democratic society. This is so because of the supreme sacrifices made by our young men and women who have dedicated their lives to fighting for our liberation, and some of whom have committed themselves to safeguarding the sovereignty of our country. I want to dedicate my speech to those young men and women who have sacrificed their lives in pursuit of a noble dream, the liberation of our country and the establishment of a truly democratic South Africa.

The hon Mr Mashimbye has referred, and I agree with him, to the progress that has been made in the transformation of the SA National Defence Force. I also agree with him that there are problems of racism and insensitivity, issues of diversity and the problems that the Defence Secretariat and the directorate had with their equal opportunities and the affirmative action that Gen Sedibe struggles with. We are doing everything to help her in this.

Most important for today, I would like to dedicate my short speech to Col Anthony Smith, the second-in-command at the School of Armour, and a star in all his military courses in the Soviet Union, India, Yugoslavia, Angola and South Africa. We will be saying the following to him this weekend.

[A hambe kakuhle. Inkosi ibe naye. [May he have a pleasant journey, and God be with him.]

We need an explanation. It has been reported to me, and to many, that the conditions that these young men and women have to live under when they get sick and go to 1, 2 or 3 Military Hospital are terrible. It has also been reported that in the presence of the parents of the particular person we are burying this weekend - without a psychiatrist, without a psychologist, without a councillor, without a priest, and without any office friends - a doctor, whose name I will be giving, declared that he was going to die. I think that these are the matters that need to be investigated. We will not have a strong military unless we have a healthy and highly motivated Defence Force. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, hon members, let me dedicate my speech today to the son of the Deputy Minister, Anthony Smith, with whom I left this country during the difficult days of our country. He will be laid to rest in the Eastern Cape on Saturday. He was a lieutenant-colonel in our Defence Force.

Hon Minister, Comrade Terror Lekota, the Deputy Minister, Secretary of Defence Mr Masilela, senior managers of the Defence Force, all protocols observed, and members of the Defence Force in the gallery, hon members, let me address this House on this important Defence debate. Let me congratulate Admiral Retief on his appointment as Chief of the Navy. We worked together in many instances in the Defence Force during the time of the Defence Review.

I do know that there are people with short memories on the opposition side of the House. [Laughter.] It is about time that we reminded them that we have gone through a process in this House, and that they are in no way going to deter us from reaching that goal. We have done so much in the Defence Force. It is therefore important that we come to this House and explain the mandate of the Defence Force. Our Defence Force has a mandate to defend our Constitution and to protect South Africa; it has a legal mandate to protect our borders as well as to perform other internal operations in support of the SA Police Service.

I want to remind this House of the agreement concluded in June 1998 between the SANDF and the SAPS and ratified by the Cabinet, which gave the responsibility of border protection to the SANDF. The SANDF is to defend the sovereignty of our country, to protect our marine resources, given the vast exclusive economic zone that we have in our sea waters, and other contingencies as explained by the Minister.

The Defence Review process looked at the capacity of the different arms of service in terms of their ability to fulfil the mandate. It was therefore suggested that we need a force structure and a core force that is balanced, modern and technologically advanced in order for it to fulfil that mandate. But the members on that side of the House must also remember that the ANC Government inherited a navy whose fleet was in a state of obsolescence, as it suffered from years of neglect during the apartheid days. South Africa is in need of this capability. And we must remember what we did was also to send men and women to sea in patrol vessels and submarines which could sink at any time. If we had continued doing so, without making provision for any improvement in that situation, we would have been irresponsible. Hence the defence package. On the other hand, the air force needed some attention. But I also want to remind the House that it is important that we remember that the army does need attention.

Many people would argue that we do not need these weapons, as the greatest enemy that we face in our young democracy, is poverty. I want to remind them that a revolution that is not able to defend itself is useless. We do need to defend the gains that we have made. It is for that reason that the ANC Government has bought this defence equipment over a period of 12 years, that is, the spaced acquisition. That will enable the Government to continue to prioritise those areas of pressing need in order to address the issue of poverty. It gives more money to education, housing and health. This year’s budget is also beginning to address the question of the infrastructure.

It is therefore not a question of butter or guns, but rather an indication that butter and guns equals security. It is important that we talk about the spaced acquisition. Therefore, it means that we will pay R5 billion of the country’s budget to the arms procurement package over a period of 12 years.

The Defence White Paper and the Defence Review emphasise the importance of the one-force concept, given the fact that our Defence Force is composed of different forces, including the KwaZulu-Natal police. The ANC acknowledges the fact that this diversity needs to be harnessed and managed effectively in order to make the one-force concept a reality. It is for that reason that the committee’s main oversight function has been on the integration and transformation process. This, to us, highlights the importance of both the transformation and integration processes, how they are done and what their successes and weaknesses are.

It is for this reason that I salute the Minister, the Secretary for Defence, the Chief of the SANDF and Maj Gen Sedibe for forming the Civic Education Monitoring and Advisory Committee and the advisory board which deals with the issue of civil education, equal opportunity and affirmative action. The hon Mabeta and I serve on that board on behalf of the defence committees. This has, indeed, come about because the leadership of the Defence Force, including the Minister and the Deputy Minister, have seen the value of the one-force concept. If we have people who are able to work together, despite their different cultural backgrounds, we will have a defence force that is able to carry out its mandate with maximum efficiency and in a state of combat readiness.

What has been the highlight of the success story is that this advisory board is chaired by the Secretary for Defence. The policy of equal opportunity and affirmative action has been made a level one function. This will force the officers commanding to come up with programmes and strategies for its implementation. In future, promotions and performance appraisals will be linked to the successful implementation of that policy.

However, we do not want to create the impression that all problems will be solved on the issue of diversity. But what I am saying is that the department has put mechanisms in place to deal with those challenges. What is important is the issue of civil-military relations, which has also been taken seriously. I have observed the fact that the department is drawing in organs of civil society in order to get advice from them on how to deal with these issues since they are societal issues. The SANDF is, indeed, an integral part of South African society. Where there is a will there is a way. Building the one-force concept is indeed a process and not an event.

I want to acknowledge all the servicewomen who have made it to the senior management of the SANDF. Among these are Lt Col Bobelo and Lt Col Mpaxa, who is the first woman to be in the infantry at 14 SAI. [Interjections.] It is also important to note that we have only one woman military attaché. That is a problem. But we have been given the assurance by the Secretary for Defence that this matter will be addressed as soon as possible.

We have a Defence Force that is no longer at war with its neighbours. Our chief of the National Defence Force, Comrade Gen Nyanda, on visiting various parts of Angola, realised that something had to be done to alleviate the situation in Angola. For that reason, I support the call that he made that the establishment of peace in Angola as soon as possible is very important, and that it is in the interests not only of Angola, but of the entire region.

The SANDF’s commitment to peacekeeping missions is in line with President Thabo Mbeki’s continued call for us to build a South Africa in which all members of the region take part in ensuring a lasting peace in the region. Gone are the days when our defence force was used to bomb our neighbouring states. We have a defence force which is very committed to bringing about peace in our continent and whose mission it is to defend our Constitution. We have men and women who continue to be prepared to pay the supreme sacrifice in defence of our country. Our military supremacy should be used to harness the spirit of good co- operation and governance. It is for this reason that I support the peace effort missions that are spearheaded by the former President, Nelson Mandela, and members of the SANDF led by Lt Gen Masondo, to bring about peace in Rwanda and Burundi. Let our Defence Force carry the torch of peace in Africa and all parts of the world. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and members of the SA National Defence Force, the growth of the Defence budget by about R2 billion is substantial. As we live in relatively peaceful times, the current budget of R15,8 billion should sustain the basic operational costs of the National Defence Force. It is, however, in times of peace that the nation’s Defence Force should, according to the Defence Review, maintain, develop and prepare those forces that form the basis of its conventional defence capabilities.

It is, therefore, discouraging when we receive reports of the deterioration in the standard of our National Defence Force due to ill-discipline, crime and negligence. Reports that we lack military discipline and productivity are factors that have been mentioned by the secretariat as key challenges facing the department. The large number of outstanding court martials is also a matter of serious concern. There is a great need to restore respect for sound discipline. Our officers and NCOs must have the confidence to impose discipline albeit with compassion and without fear of being accused of being racist, whether they are black or white.

We must also move with urgency in finalising the investigations into the arms procurement processes, prosecute any person implicated in any corruption and restore the integrity of our defence procurement processes. The ACDP is, further, in agreement that in view of the escalation of the contract price, which is compounded by a depreciating rand, the Government should consider only honouring those parts of the contracts to which it is committed and where cancellation would involve penalties. In this regard, the options to purchase further Hawk and Gripen aircraft should be carefully reconsidered as substantial savings could be affected here. I would like to tell the hon the Minister that I say this notwithstanding my close affinity to the SA Air Force.

We must also move swiftly to control the level of HIV/Aids cases in our Defence Force. It is estimated that about 12% of our soldiers suffer from Aids. The exponential spread of this disease throughout the National Defence Force will render our Defence Force useless, weaken the security of the nation and negatively impact on the peacekeeping role that South Africa can play in Africa.

The integration progress report and final report further make for compelling reading. The last sentence of the report by Brigadier Keeling which states that ``it has been a huge privilege to witness this remarkable integration process which, warts and all, remains the most successful of its kind in the world’’, speaks volumes for the success of the integration process, despite various setbacks and limited funding. The ACDP commends all members of the SA National Defence Force for making integration such a success.

In conclusion, the ACDP wishes to commend the Defence Force for its ongoing nonmilitary humanitarian tasks, ranging from flood relief to mountain and sea rescue missions. Let us also not forget the role played by the large number of troops deployed in assisting the Police Service to maintain law and order, as well as border patrols attempting to stem the tide of illegal immigrants. Let us also remember those members of the force involved in peacekeeping operations in the DRC.

The ACDP will support this Vote. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, the previous speaker spoke about deteriorating standards. I would like to invite him to come with us to the bases to see the readiness of our members. Very recently there was a competition in Bloemfontein, which was attended by 12 countries, six of whom were international ones. Our soldiers came first in all of those exercises. [Applause.] It is important that members inform themselves before they make allegations.

Parliament has given the Ministry of Defence five main tasks. These are integration, demobilisation, defence review and procurement, transformation, and a wider developmental role for the SANDF. These tasks are to be undertaken together and speedily. I wish to acknowledge the role played by our predecessors, Comrades Joe Modise and Ronnie Kasrils, in laying the foundation for the doctrine of defence in a democracy. They courageously embarked on a massive project of bringing together seven disparate forces into one united SANDF.

Since 1994 we have embarked on a project of transforming our previously divided past and building a single South African nation. Our diversity is our strength. Transformation is not an overnight project; it is also not only about numbers, but about transforming culture and values. For the Department of Defence it is a change from white baasskap in an apartheid- siege state to an integrated force giving full expression to the cultures and strengths of all, united and projecting the image of a peaceful neighbour and creating peace in Africa. In the short time since the birth of our new nation, we have laid the groundwork. Now we are rolling out our programmes in line with national imperatives.

The Department of Defence’s total strength of 78 701 is made up of 26% white Africans, 12% coloured Africans, 1% Indian Africans and 61% African Africans, as opposed to the 1994 ratio of 46:15:1:38. We have entrenched equality not only in our Constitution, but also in our policies, and we continue to develop towards greater representivity. If the opposition were to listen, they would learn something from this Government.

Women constitute just over 20% of the department’s total strength. Although 30% representation of women in the Department of Defence has not yet been reached, the targets help us focus our energies and resources. In August, we will be highlighting the issue of women in the military. Our first lady, Comrade Zanele Mbeki, will be hosting a special celebration in August on the role played by women in the services.

I also acknowledge the stewardship of Maj Gen Jackie Sedibe, chief director of the equal opportunity and affirmative action programme. Our first female commander will be inaugurated in Umtata this Friday, 22 June. This serves to demonstrate the Department of Defence’s determination to prove that the days are gone when a woman’s place was in the kitchen. The equal opportunities chief directorate was specifically established and mandated to institutionalise equal opportunities and affirmative action in the Department of Defence. The EOCD reports directly to the Secretary for Defence.

The Department of Defence’s affirmative action forum monitors the implementation of affirmative action plans. There is a drive to give women their rightful position in all ranks, levels and positions, as well as in combat roles. The gender forum is charged with co-ordinating gender programmes and monitoring progress. There were no women in the highest ranks of our National Defence Force structures before. Today 7% of our top leadership is occupied by women. We look forward to our first woman lieutenant general and chief of the SA National Defence Force in the not too distant future.

The department acknowledges its responsibility towards people with disabilities. A Department of Defence disability forum has been established in order to highlight the issues of disability and to integrate them. Annually the Department of Defence hosts a function to celebrate the achievements of our disabled members.

We know too well the consequences of not dealing with racism. Racism seriously undermines the ability of any defence force to perform its function of defending the nation. We see the need to address racism at its roots in every individual, with the full support of the leadership, backed by effective training and redress. In a drive to raise awareness and education, the department has engaged in road shows and cultural diversity education. We will include antiracism as a qualifying course for our officer corps.

Now is the time for the nuts and bolts by means of which we fasten the SANDF into a tighter military force, united in its drive to be a truly African force, under civilian control. The strategic direction has now been promulgated as part of the Department of Defence programme. In this regard, I want to focus on specific areas of attention, the first being to sharpen the tools of the Ministry to deliver on its mandate and to tighten its links with the defence community. I am looking into how we can develop fully the concept of civilian oversight. We have, with the assistance of the US department of defence, begun a programme focusing on civil-military relations.

The Department of Defence has embarked on training to ensure that our department understands the requirements set out by the National Treasury. We have focused on reprioritisation, rooting out financial mismanagement where it appears, and wastage. The office of the chief of finance is hard at work developing best-practice measures for all our budget holders.

The second specific area of attention is to complete the legislative processes, enabling full integration and transformation. We have prioritised finalisation this year of the Defence Act, the National Conventional Arms Control Bill, the Termination of Integration Intake Bill, the Demobilisation Bill, and the Armscor Bill.

Our present Defence Act is outdated and needs to reflect the requirements of defence in a democracy. A new defence Act will underscore the transformation of the SA National Defence Force in a nation that is at peace with itself and seeking to play a positive role on the African continent. As we do so, we realise that the SANDF must develop the skills and training it needs to be able to contribute to the United Nations and other African peace operations. We are convinced of the value of discreet diplomacy.

The drafting of the Defence Bill has been completed. It is hoped that the Bill will be passed in the third session of Parliament. The National Conventional Arms Control Bill is now also with the state law advisers. This Bill will put into law the criteria Cabinet has developed on government-to-government arms sales.

South Africa must be proud of its role in ensuring a responsible defence industry. I do not think there is a country that has been as transparent as we have been on this issue. We are proposing substantial reforms to the Armscor Act, and the drafting of policy guidelines for the Armscor Bill has been completed.

The Termination of Integration Intake Bill, Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Amendment Bill and Demobilisation Amendment Bill have been introduced. These laws are not intended to bar people from entering the SANDF through the normal channels or those who have not been able to integrate because their amnesty applications were still under consideration.

Then there is the issue of ensuring that the SANDF gets to full representivity in four years. Hand in hand with this goes the need to turn the SANDF into an excellent employer. We are developing a comprehensive human resource strategy as important as the armaments acquisition programme. Every member who enters the Defence Force must know that we will look after him while in our force and after leaving. Proper demobilisation and veteran care will form an integral part of the department’s comprehensive human resource package.

I want to deal with the important issue of HIV/Aids that other members have referred to. We are looking at this matter very seriously. Current figures have indicated that figures pertaining to HIV-infection are lower in the SANDF than in our society. However, we remain vigilant. We acknowledge the threat of HIV/Aids to our security and readiness. Our HIV/Aids strategy is in line with the National Aids Plan while taking into account the special environment in which soldiers work.

I want to report to this House that we conduct comprehensive health assessments to ensure the readiness of our soldiers. We acknowledge our responsibility to treat those affected and infected with dignity and recognition of their human rights. We are committed and ready to roll out the next phase of our HIV strategy focusing on behaviour change, voluntary testing, treatment and care specific to the military and to create an environment free of discrimination and stigma. Fifthly, we must establish a true African culture in the SANDF and, finally, ensure increased utilisation of the SANDF as a catalyst for development.

An audit will be conducted to determine the resources we have in the engineer corps to assist the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy. The Department of Defence has, together with the Department of Public Works, developed a comprehensive base closure policy as our contribution to black empowerment.

Let me, at this stage, address the issue of the Service Corps. I want to explain what we are proposing. The Service Corps was established as the centrepiece in our attempts to assist demobilised soldiers as part of the department’s contribution to the RDP. The response of the SANDF during the floods is an excellent example of the collateral utilisation of SANDF resources. The Service Corps, in an effective form, can become the nation’s flagship for assisting with the demobilisation and reintegration programme for retrenched civil servants. It can become the mobilising vehicle for community service and development by helping to build the infrastructure and soaking up the unemployed.

Regarding reports that members may have heard, we acted on the report of our inspector-general. We conducted an investigation which looked at why the Service Corps was not delivering at its optimal level. We have proposed a re-engineering of the Service Corps. We have developed this in close collaboration with the Department of Labour, the National Youth Commission and the Women’s Development Banking Group. The proposal will be taken to other Government departments for their support.

Education could assist with the accreditation of military personnel for use in civilian life. The technikons and universities can retrain former soldiers and reorientate their skills as their contribution and acknowledgement of the sacrifice and contribution of soldiers. We have the support of the National Business Initiative and other business organisations on this. They have offered to work with us in developing public-private partnerships in line with Government practice. We will turn the Service Corps around. A Cabinet memorandum will spell out these issues in detail.

We are not proposing the privatisation of the Service Corps, but a partnership with business to ensure delivery and cost-effectiveness. The Department of Defence will remain a close partner, both as a client and a service provider, to a re-engineered Service Corps, of which the Minister of Defence is a patron, and he will continue in this role.

We have proposed that the resettlement function of the Service Corps be retained in the department, while the reskilling and social integration is taken up by a civilian national service corps, together with business. In this way we would be ensuring that the important task is undertaken by those whose business is business, and that the Department of Defence can focus on its mandate to employ and prepare soldiers.

Sesenze imzamo yokubambisana nentsha ukuthuthukisa amakhono ayo ukuze ibambe iqhaza ekuvuseleleni kabusha izindawo zokuhlala. Intsha eyayibambe iqhaza ekuvikeleni imiphakathi ngesikhathi sodlame, njengama-SDU nama-SPU sizobambisana nayo ukufuna amathuba emisebenzi nokuqeda ubelelesi ezindaweni esihlala kuzo. Sesihambe ibanga elide kulokhu sisebenzisana namalunga ePhalamende namakhansela. Siqale ngalezi zindawo ezikhethwe nguMongameli ukuthi zivuselelwe. Ngikhuluma ngezindawo ezinjengoMashu, iNanda neNtuzuma ngaphansi koMkhandlu dolobha weTheku. Sibambisene nomhlonishwa uDuma Nkosi, sesidlulele e-Kathorus, eMpumalanga Randi ngalolu hlelo. OSodolobha balezi zindawo obaba uMlaba noVilakazi, bazimisele ukubambisana nathi. Inhloso yalolu hlelo ukulwa nodlame oludalwa ukungabi bikho kwemisebenzi. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[We have made attempts to work together with the youth to improve their skills so that they would be able to contribute to the revival of the places in which they live. We are going to co-operate with the youth groups such as SDU and SPU, as they played a role in protecting communities during the times of violence. We will co-operate with them in creating job opportunities and to stop crime in the places in which we live. We have gone a long way towards working co-operatively with members of Parliament and councillors. We began with the places which the President selected as places to be protected. I am talking about areas like Mashu, Nanda, and Ntuzuma under the Durban Metro. We are working together with the hon Duma Nkosi. We have now proceeded to Kathorus on the East Rand. The Mayors of these places, Father Mlaba and Vilakazi, are prepared to co-operate with us. The aim of this programme is to fight violence which is caused by unemployment.] Government acknowledges that our organisational responses to the various concerns and problems experienced by veterans and their families have been inadequate. Veterans of MK and Apla have numerous legitimate concerns that they have put before Government. Primary amongst those is the issue of pensions. We have to present our case to the Treasury on this matter, as we have done with regard to the men and women that are serving. We have succeeded in amalgamating the various veterans’ associations into a unified structure under the directorship of a military veterans advisory board which brings together former liberation struggle veterans and those from the SADF.

Let me now come to the issue of addressing our military heritage. This year we celebrate the 40th anniversary of the birth of MK. In 1994 Comrade Tony Yengeni called upon Government to build a monument to those who fell in the struggle for freedom. Various hon members have made similar calls for the cadres of MK and Apla to be publicly commemorated. Government is proceeding with the development of Freedom Park, as announced by the Deputy President last year. We are participating in this.

Our military heritage project will take in the whole timeframe from the Wars of Dispossession, the so-called Frontier Wars, onwards, and geographically embrace the wider African continent. In so doing, we must incorporate our activities into the President’s Millennium African Recovery Programme and our wider foreign policy objectives.

Finally, as the SA National Defence Force, we are well positioned to play our role in ensuring peace in our region, which is a prerequisite to development in the century and for the Millennium African Recovery Programme. [Applause.]

Mr S B NTULI: Madam Speaker, Minister of Defence and other Ministers, Deputy Minister, members of the SANDF, hon members, allow me to add my weight, as well as my word, to this budget debate, on behalf of the ANC, of course.

The core role of any defence force is to protect the territorial integrity of a state. In our case, surrounded as we are by such a vast coastline, there is an imperative that we protect our territorial waters, not only to protect people and land on which we live, indeed not only to protect our maritime resources - our marine life and the resources our ocean can provide, both food and mineral - but also to fulfil our obligations to assist our landlocked neighbours.

We need a well-equipped maritime defence force. We should not now be questioning the recommendations of the Defence Review. Yes, we need to reassess, but let us not be led astray by arguments about guns or butter. We need the capacity to protect what is ours for the benefit of our nation. Our marine resources are constantly under threat.

Competition over fishing grounds is not something new. Indeed the Basques were so protective of their fishing grounds in the Middle Ages that they hid the fact that they used to fish for cod off the coast of North America from other nations. When Columbus arrived on the east coast of America in 1492, the Basque fishing fleets were harvesting the marine wealth. However, fishing has never known such fierce competition as today. The Government and the navy were criticised for the support we gave to the Australian government in apprehending a trawler that was caugat fishing illegally in Australian waters.

Illegal fishing is the piracy of the 21st century. Our resources are being depleted daily. We have heard a lot about the cost of corvettes, some R8 billion. Their estimated life is 30 years. But, on the other hand, over the past five years we have lost up to 10 000 tons of Patagonian tooth fish per year to illegal fishing, let alone other marine resources. I have only referred to one species. I will not bother the House with a lot of figures but at current prices this is worth R4 billion over five years. Over 30 years this loss of revenue could be as much as R254 billion. Does the price of the corvette not seem worthwhile in this context?

Talk is cheap. It is easy to make grand statements about the people needing houses and food, but the fact remains that without protection our resources are plundered. Our food is stolen from our plates. It is the duty and the obligation of this Government to ensure that the Defence Force is well equipped to prevent our nation’s wealth being plundered.

Our Defence Force is one of which we can be proud, as has been acknowledged today. It has weathered the challenges of transformation. It has risen from the ashes of our history with the determination to play a role in the building of a united democratic nation. Of course, it still faces many challenges.

As we in the ANC address the challenges facing our continent, we must not forget that we live in times of great instability. Our continent is still seeking a path to peace and economic viability. Our only chance for long- term prosperity is through the rebirth of our continent and our region, and our Defence Force has a special role to play in this regard.

The Minister’s report on progress in the implementation of the protocol is a significant step toward building a united, secure region. Too often, of late, we have been subjected to a revisionist analysis of our recent history with regard to defence issues. The DP and the so-called New NP, now the unholy Democratic Alliance, supported the Defence Review in the spirit of patriotism and nation-building. May I ask them whether they still support the Defence Review? Or have they decided that it is unpatriotic to protect the integrity of our united South Africa? [Interjections.]

Last year in his speech the Minister gave details of a procurement package. There was no loud protest from the opposition. But today, sensing a political gap, the opposition is making loud noises, stirring up insecurity and distrust. To play on the fears and insecurities of the electorate as the DA and the UDM are doing, is dangerous politics. It is irresponsible and foolish politics.

The safest thing for the nation to do is to unite. We have forged a united Defence Force. We have built unity in this country, which has never existed before. We are breaking down the walls that had divided us. I appeal to the opposition not to march backwards into our past of division and distrust, but to march forward to a united Defence Force, protecting the interests of a united nation.

Having said that, I move on behalf of the ANC that all of us in the House should support this Vote. [Applause.]

Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, I want to ask the hon the Minister if he received a Mercedes-Benz on a preferential scheme, yes or no. [Interjections.] Whether the Minister will say yes or no, nobody knows. The fact of the matter is that Daimler Chrysler mentioned, and has supplied 30 names of top officials and politicians who received motor vehicles on a preferential scheme. [Interjections.] Why does the hon the Minister not declare these names and give them to the media and the public so that the people of South Africa can see who these people are? The impression is that all these motor vehicles were given to people who were involved in the weapons and armaments transaction. Therefore I want to say that if the hon the Minister is a responsible Minister, he would declare the names so that the people could know.

Die ondersoek wat oor die wapentransaksie gedoen word, is nie tot die nadeel van die ANC en politici nie. [The investigation into the arms deal is not to the detriment of the ANC and politicians.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Take your seat, hon member.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, can the hon member really substantiate the statement that he is making here now and the accusations that he is making against Ministers? Can he really substantiate them?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Is that a question that you are posing to the hon member?

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Yes.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, would you like to respond to the question?

Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, it seems this hon member does not know the difference between a question and a statement. I did not make a statement, I asked a question. Is the hon the Minister to make a statement, yes or no?

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: This hon member is attacking the hon the Minister, knowing full well that all motor companies … [Interjections] … I am not going to name them - are making offers to members of Parliament and giving discounts, because they are members of Parliament. [Interjections.] I want to ask this hon member if, in his life, he ever received such offers from BMW, Daimler Chrysler or Toyota? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, I do not want a debate between you and the hon members. Hon member, please proceed.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Dankie, mevrou die Speaker. Dit lyk my dié agb lid het ook ‘n Mercedes gekry. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Ek gaan voort. Ek wil vandag hier sê die VF het van die begin af hierdie wapenaankope gesteun. Die agb Minister van Finansies het dit nou die dag goedgedink om my aan te haal toe ek sou gesê het, as ons nie die wapens aankoop nie, gaan ons op die ou end ‘n flentergatweermag hê. Ek staan daarby! Die wapenaankope moes plaasgevind het tot voordeel van die SA Nasionale Weermag.

Die VF het egter nie gesê daar kan korrupsie plaasvind nie. Ek wil die agb Minister vra wat geword het van die teenhandel wat sou voortvloei uit hierdie wapentransaksie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is oral in die wêreld verkondig dat Suid-Afrika meer as R100 miljard se teenhandel gaan kry uit hierdie wapentransaksie, en dat derduisende werkgeleenthede geskep sal word, veral in die krygstuignywerheid, wat tegnologiese ontwikkeling nodig het. Dit is iets wat deur die VF verwelkom is. Hoekom hoor ons nie van hierdie werkgeleenthede wat geskep is nie? Hoekom hoor ons nie van die teenhandel wat plaasgevind het nie? [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die hantering van hierdie hele aangeleentheid deur die ANC strek tot nadeel van die beeld van die SA Nasionale Weermag. Dit is die lede van die Weermag wat hier agter sit wat gekonfronteer word met stellings dat hulle mos deel is van die SA Nasionale Weermag en dat hulle mos die uniform dra. Dit is egter die politici en die agb Minister van Verdediging wat deur hulle onbeholpe hantering van hierdie saak hierdie beeld skep van die SA Nasionale Weermag. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Ek wil verder gaan aangesien ons dan nou besig is met die ondersoek van wapenaankope. In 1993 is daar ‘n aantal Pilatus PC7 MKII-vliegtuie aangekoop. Ek het spesifiek vrae gevra oor bewerings van kommissies wat betaal is, wat ontken is, maar in 1996 het die Ouditeur-generaal bevind dat R28 miljoen aan kommissies betaal is.

Die Kantoor vir Ernstige Ekonomiese Misdrywe, wat nou Odeem is, het hierdie saak ondersoek, en hy het op die ou end bevind dat meer as R52 miljoen al aan kommissies betaal is. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die VF versoek die agb Minister, aangesien daar ‘n ondersoek is, om dan hierdie saak ook daarby te voeg sodat die lede wat hier agter sit, kan vrykom van hierdie wolk wat oor hulle hang as gevolg van politici se optrede. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It seems as if that hon member also received a Mercedes. [Interjections.]

I want to proceed. I want to say here today that from the very beginning the FF supported these arms purchases. The hon the Minister of Finance saw fit to quote me the other day, when I had said that if we did not purchase the arms we would end up with a ``flentergatweermag’‘[a ragged defence force]. I still feel that way! The arms purchases should have taken place to the benefit of the SA National Defence Force.

However, the FF did not say that corruption could take place. I want to ask the hon the Minister what has become of the countertrade that was to have resulted from this arms transaction. [Interjections.] It was announced all over the world that South Africa would gain over R100 billion in countertrade from this arms transaction, and that thousands of job opportunities would be created, especially in the munitions industry, which requires technological development. This was welcomed by the FF. Why have we not heard about these job opportunities that have been created? Why have we not heard about any countertrade that has taken place? [Interjections.]

The handling of this entire matter by the ANC is to the detriment of the image of the SA National Defence Force. It is the members of the Defence Force sitting at the back here who are confronted with statements that surely they are members of the Defence Force and they wear the uniform. It is the politicians and the hon the Minister, however, who created this image of the SA Defence Force through their inept handling of this matter. [Interjections.]

I want to proceed, seeing that we are now dealing with the investigation into arms purchases. In 1993 a number of Pilatus PC MKII aeroplanes were purchased. I asked questions relating specifically to allegations about commissions that had been paid, and this was denied, but in 1996 the Auditor-General found that an amount of R28 million in commissions had been paid. The Office for Serious Economic Offences, which is now called Idseo, investigated this matter, and in the end found that over R52 million had already been spent on commissions. [Interjections.] The FF requests the hon the Minister, since there is an investigation, to add this matter to it, so that the members sitting at the back here could be freed of this cloud that looms over them owing to the actions of politicians.]

The FF therefore requests that an investigation into the Pilatus transaction also be added to this investigation.

Ek gaan verder. Die agb Minister is veronderstel om ‘n voorbeeld te stel vir die mense in die Weermag. Dit is egter dieselfde agb Minister wat besig is om die Weermag te verpolitiseer. Hoekom sê ek hy verpolitiseer die Weermag? [Tussenwerpsels.] As daar ‘n swart soldaat is - nogal ‘n offisier

• wat sy kompaniebevelvoerder in Phalaborwa doodskiet - ‘n blanke majoor - dan gaan besoek die agb Minister die basis, en op die ou end beskuldig hy die bevelvoerder, en die bevelvoerder moet vervang word. [Tussenwerpsels.] Watter beeld … [Tussenwerpsels.] Daardie agb lid moet maar liewers in die meerkatgate gaan wegkruip, want hy lawaai net daar agter in die kombuis. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die agb Minister se optrede skep die indruk dat as ‘n mens swart is en jy pleeg wandade, dit geregverdig is, want die politici en die Minister sal agter jou staan. Dan word die skuld nog geplaas op die blanke bevelvoerders. As die agb Minister wil professioneel optree, moet hy gaan kyk na die kundigheid van hierdie offisiere en dan moet die kriterium meriete wees en daarvolgens moet hy dan die beeld skep dat dit ‘n professionele weermag is. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I want to proceed. The hon the Minister is supposed to set an example to the people in the Defence Force. It is this very same Minister, however, who is politicising the Defence Force. Why am I saying that he is politicising the Defence Force? [Interjections.] If there is a black soldier - an officer in fact - who shoots dead his company commander in Phalaborwa - a white major - then the hon the Minister visits the base, and in the end he accuses the commanding officer, and the commanding officer must be replaced. [Interjections.] What image … [Interjections.] That hon member should rather go and hide in the mongoose burrows, because he is just making a noise back there in the kitchen. [Interjections.]

The hon the Minister’s actions create the impression that if one is black and one commits an offence, it is justified, because the politicians and the Minister will be behind one. What is more, then the white commanding officers are blamed. If the hon the Minister wishes to act professionally, he should go and look at the expertise of these officers and then the criterium should be merit and on those terms he should create the image that it is a professional defence force. [Time expired.]]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, the establishment of the state-of-the- art Service Corps training centre in Pretoria was hailed as a step in the right direction in addressing the much-needed skills to enable and empower former uMkhonto weSizwe and Azanian People’s Liberation Army members to acquire skills needed in the labour market and for those interested in starting their own businesses.

However, there are serious allegations of mismanagement in the Service Corps and a lack of proper accountability for moneys obtained from the Defence budget. The alleged abuse of resources earmarked for the former liberation movement cadres leaves much to be desired, because many of them are destitute and some are not aware of the existence of the Service Corps training facilities.

It is common knowledge that the integration and demobilisation of the eight former forces has been a painful process. The Defence Force’s downsizing exercise from 100 000 to a peacetime target of 70 000 created the undesirable situation we are currently faced with, as most of the young former soldiers received packages and are currently unemployed, without any of the skills required for them to enter the labour market.

There are allegations that the training institution is spending almost R600 000 per month on administration and salaries of programme facilitators and instructors, for literally doing nothing. It is also alleged that since the inception of the centre, fewer than a thousand individuals have benefited from training provided by the Service Corps. Then the question is: What has been happening to the moneys allocated to the Service Corps?

We applaud Gen Masondo’s willingness to have forensic investigations conducted into the affairs of the Service Corps, and his stance that any proper investigation will reveal that no taxpayer’s money has been misappropriated. [Time expired.]

Mr L N DIALE: Madam Speaker, hon Minister of Defence Mosiuoa Lekota, hon members and comrades, I also want to acknowledge the presence of our glorious army, the SA National Defence Force.

Ke a le dumedisa ka moka. Ke a thaba go tsea karolo mo ngangisanong ye ya sekhwama sa masole. [I greet you all. I am delighted to participate in the debate on the National Defence Force.]

As a member and a commander of uMmkhonto weSizwe, the spear of the nation … [Applause] … Lerumo la Setshaba, I will speak on the issue of integration.

Building one nation, united in its commitment to change, to eradicating the divisions of the past and building democracy, is a key objective of our Government. The SA National Defence Force must play a leading role in forging this united nation.

The 1994 democratic elections provided us with the opportunity to transform the old defence force, once regarded as the main bastion of apartheid, into one which all South Africans could be proud of. The integration process, as required by the interim Constitution, was never going to be easy. Whereas MK was fighting for democracy and freedom for the majority, the old SADF was fighting to maintain the apartheid system and the privileges bestowed by it on a very small minority, many of whom are still sitting in this Chamber.

Furthermore, the cultures and values within the nonstatutory forces such as MK differed from the cultures and values of the statutory forces. In uMkhonto weSizwe we believed in democracy, nonracialism, nonsexism and accountability while the old SADF was characterised by ideological and racist indoctrination.

Problems during the integration process were to be expected. The inability of many of the former statutory force members to change their attitudes and accept nonstatutory force members as equals was the cause of most of the problems experienced during the integration process. It is to the credit of the Minister of Defence that he acted swiftly and decisively whenever problems arose. The investigation into the Tempe shooting and the subsequent Setai commission are proof of the urgency with which the Minister and his department have acted to resolve any problems.

The fact that we have been able to manage this integration process without any major problems has much to do with the responsible and good leadership of the hon the Minister of Defence and his predecessor, Comrade Modise, as well as the assistance of the British Military Advisory Training Team. The integration committee has played a major role. Our integration process has been so successful after seven years that any future issues can be catered for within normal SANDF structures.

The integration process of the statutory members has been completed, except for one administrative matter that relates to the South African identity documents held by foreign-born members whose citizenship is currently being verified by the Department of Home Affairs. As far as the integration process of nonstatutory forces is concerned, this process is also nearing completion. There are, however, two outstanding issues which need some attention before the process can be regarded as completed.

The first issue concerns the final intake of those members who have been given amnesty or who have not yet integrated for some exceptional or other valid reason. The TRC’s amnesty committee has already granted amnesty to a number of former nonstatutory force members and a number of cases are still pending. Provision must be made for the integration of these members as well.

The second issue that needs to be addressed is one that is of concern to most of the former nonstatutory force members. There is a feeling among former nonstatutory force members that the integration process was not really an integration of the former forces but was merely the absorption of nonstatutory forces into the old SADF. This was so because only former MK and Apla members were issued with new force numbers, while the old SADF members retained their old numbers.

The integration process was supposed to mean that all members of the new SANDF, whether statutory or nonstatutory, were to be issued with new numbers. It is my wish that the Minister will look into this issue and see if money cannot be found in this year’s budget to implement a process whereby all members of the old SADF will also get new numbers.

This process will remove any doubts which former nonstatutory armies have about being integrated into the new SA National Defence Force and not being absorbed. We must congratulate the Minister of Defence on the good leadership he has provided in dealing with the question of integration.

We know that the SANDF does not have a lot of money. It must also operate within a strict budget. In fact, the army has already indicated that it does not have the capacity, budget or resources to continue handling mass intakes of nonstatutory force members. It has only budgeted for a final intake of approximately 300 nonstatutory force members during this financial year.

The Termination of Integration Intake Bill, together with a constitutional amendment and an amendment to the Demobilisation Act, which are currently before Parliament, will bring the integration process to an end. These Bills will bring down the curtain on a long and difficult process that has been well managed, given the financial constraints suffered by the SANDF.

The Minister has applied his previous budgets to good effect by building a ready and competent National Defence Force. I have absolutely no doubt that he will do so again with this budget.

The ANC supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Madam Speaker, hon Minister of Defence, the heads of our armed forces, I rise on behalf of the PAC to support this Vote and to salute the armed forces.

I want to reiterate what I said in previous Defence Votes, namely that our country needs a defence force to defend the people of this nation. The National Defence Force must be appropriately, or should I say adequately, equipped for this task. I therefore argue for a balance between the two Ds, which are defence and development. The army must eat in order to be able to defend. But the people they defend must also eat, otherwise we may end up with a war between the defenders and the defended.

Let me add that I believe an army in the modern world has tasks that go beyond war. These are the responsibilities that touch on peacekeeping inside and outside the country, helping to defend the country’s economic needs, such as the fishing industry, and helping with development by constructing bridges and responding to calamities. This calls for a review of the budget by increasing it rather than cutting it down.

The arms deal has presented this nation with awkward options. The problem began with an attempt to politicise the whole process. It began when the alarm was raised. The whistleblower was roundly accused. The messenger, who was a bearer of bad news, was accused. Her party was also accused. The truth must be stated again. The arms deal saga did not originate with the PAC. As a leader of the PAC, I do not even, at this point in time, know the details of the arms deal. Like the old underground liberation force, we observe that if too many people know a secret, then that secret cannot be kept for long.

The PAC is not involved in the arms deal, nor does it have the facts, just as many members of the ANC also do not have the facts. Some members of the ANC actually came to me for information. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, may I firstly take this opportunity on behalf of the MF to compliment the Minister and the Defence Force on their excellent performance. They must keep up the good work. God bless them all.

Siyambonga uNgqongqoshe indlela aphethe ngayo lo Mnyango wezokuVikela. [We thank the hon the Minister for the way he manages the Department of Defence.]

Every country aims to provide for the defence and protection of its country and people in accordance with its Constitution and the principles of international law. National security is of the utmost importance. Fortunately, our country enjoys a good relationship with its neighbours. Our security forces are required for the purpose of keeping peace, to assist in times of disaster and so on, as it has admirably done in Mozambique.

The MF fully supports the Government in their noncombative operations, such as the restoration of law and order, support services to the SA Police Service and border control on land and sea and in the air. In spite of the fact that South Africa is not faced with any war situation, the MF very strongly supports the Government’s strategic arms procurement programme, which is being given a higher priority, as our country has to be always in a state of preparedness with personnel, defence capabilities, capacity and operational readiness.

In this respect, the MF welcomes the increase in the Defence budget from R13,7 billion in the last financial year to R15,8 billion in the year 2001-

1. However, the MF is concerned about the allocation in respect of the military health support service, where no provision has been made for the possible implementation of a policy for the treatment of persons suffering from HIV/Aids-related illnesses. The MF urges the Government to set aside funds for this purpose. We are also emphasising preventive measures such as education programmes so that HIV/Aids can be avoided or reduced.

The MF applauds the efforts of our very active Minister of Defence. He surely does not cause any terror. Our party is pleased that there is an inquiry into the so-called arms deal. We urge people to allow this process to continue, so that the country can continue to have confidence in those who are entrusted with the defence of our country. The MF supports the Defence budget. [Applause.]

Mr E P MOGALE: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members and distinguished guests, before and after the new democracy, the ANC leadership, which is the only strategic leadership in the country, identified people as the main asset of our country. All achievements depend on the mobilisation, radical transformation, attitudes, and, consequently, the wellbeing of the people.

The army is the miniature of society in general. Accordingly, our Government, consistent with our people-centred and people-based policy, has always taken more care of men and women in uniform. Gen Masondo’s report to the Portfolio Committee on Defence says, and I quote: On 23 January 1995, the Cabinet Committee for Security and Intelligence Affairs approved the establishment of a Service Corps as a project for the RDP, aimed at military personnel, which will grow into an independent and predominantly nonmilitary organisation and a committee of Ministers - consisting of the Minister of Defence, who was to be the convener, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Finance, the Minister without Portfolio and the Minister of Public Works - to be established urgently to advise the Cabinet on the feasibility of extending the scope of the scheme to include other unemployed persons and the so-called marginalised youth.

After having a resounding success in integrating forces who had been waging bloody war against each other, we resolved to carry the integration process further by taking care of those members, especially from the liberation forces, who opted for demobilisation. Many of the former freedom fighters did not necessarily opt for the army as a career. They were volunteers who responded to a call to defend the people. They volunteered to be part of the people’s army for freedom. Because of their calling, they had to be taught politics so that they should understand their mission very well. They were often referred to as the ``armed politicians’’. In the case of MK, this meant progressive and nonracial politics.

While many demobilised soldiers found jobs elsewhere, the Service Corps scheme remains useful to those who could not and those who continue to leave the force. Not only the demobilised soldiers would benefit from this concept. Short-term contractees, members leaving the force due to advanced age, members who would opt for voluntary severance packages, rationalised members, etc, would also benefit.

Detractors are looking at the Service Corps in a mechanical way. They look at the numbers of students that are produced as if that is the only product. At the moment the Service Corps has 300 people paid from its coffers. It has a big centre at Elandsfontein called the Centre for Advanced Training. The centre is fully equipped and offers life-skills and computer skills. Course materials and manuals were bought and paid for. Student accommodation is also paid for students. A lot of money was spent in getting beneficiaries to the centre. Other institutions such as service providers for the Service Corps were paid for.

The Service Corps has worked and continues to work with the National Youth Commission. Some people who were on parole were referred to the Service Corps by the youth commission and were trained there. The Service Corps has entered into agreement with the Atteridgeville College to train youths in computer and electrical repairs. Even before a malicious journalist interviewed Gen Masondo last Friday, already further training for the youths from the Atteridgeville College had been arranged. An agreement was also made with the youths in Winterveldt to do projects with the help of the Department of Social Development to train them to execute their jobs efficiently.

The whole range of Service Corps training is of strategic importance to the nation. The placement of former members of liberation armies is to ensure that one does not let hundreds of people who are trained in arms join the army of the unemployed. We all know the consequences. Even more important and exciting was that it was envisaged that the Service Corps would grow and become a national asset in training all Public Service employees who are affected by the restructuring and rationalisation that is connected to the strategic national economic planning and direction. The ANC Government will continue to drive and manage transformation for nation building.

Bagologolo ba be ba re: šikiša dira le molapo, mphago wa dira ke meetse. Mehleng yeno mphago wa dira ga e sa le meetse; eupša ke tekanyetšo. [Legofsi.]

Malobanyana mo mpheyane ye nngwe e ile ya ya go Gen Masondo gomme ya re e tlile go mmotšiša gore MK e be e le bjang mabakeng a go feta. Go fihleng, e mmotšišitše ka ga dipalopalwana tša go tšwafiša tšeo Gen Masondo a bego a sa itukišetša tšona. Ge Gen Masondo a diega go araba, mpheyane yeo, bjalo ka tlwaelo, e ile ya mo latofatša ka la gore seo ke sešupo sa gore Gen Masondo ga a tsebe makgopo ao a hlotšwego ke MK. A mahlabišadihlong baetena!. Batho ba mohuta woo ke basenyi gomme rena ga re iše felo ka bona. Ba kwa mpa mokhora. [Disego.] Motho a ka nagana ka mokgwa woo boGeneral Masondo ba katanego ka thata ka gona go bopa polane yeo re swanetšego go šoma go ya ka yona.

Ke thabišwa ke ge mohlomphegi Motlatsatona a boletše gore taba ye ya gore batho bao ba lego bosoleng mohlang ba rolago modiro ba ilo ya kae e gare e a hlokomelwa. Re swanetše go loga leano la go ka bopa mekgatlo ya disosaete yeo e tlago ba hlokomela mohlang ba rolago modiro wa bošole. Kua Amerika thekenoloji ya bosole e tlišitšwe setšhabeng. Le rena mono Afrika Borwa kgopolo ye, ka ge e thomile bošoleng, re ilo e tšeya gomme ra e šomiša setšhabeng ka bophara gore e re thuše go raka tlala. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[An old African adage used to say: A soldier on the battlefield depends entirely on water for survival. Modern day survival is no longer dependent on water; it is linked to budgets. [Applause.]

Recently, a malicious journalist set out to interview Gen Masondo on what she said was the activities of MK. To his dismay, Gen Masondo was persistently asked to respond to some obscure statistics which he was not even asked to clarify beforehand, thus having him critically off balance. When he hesitated to reply, the malicious journalist, as is always the case, peremptorily accused him of hiding some facts about the evils committed by ex-MK veterans. What a shame! People like that journalist are indeed criminals and we should ignore them. They are just saying things for the sake of saying them. [Laughter.] One should consider the sacrifices of the likes of Gen Masondo who worked very hard in establishing infrastructure on which we are building our nation today.

I am grateful that the hon Deputy Minister has hinted that the issue of demobilised soldiers and what they can do for survival after leaving the army is being considered by her department. We need to consider ways and means of establishing societal agencies to assist the reintegration into civilian life of those who leave the army. In America army technology has been brought to civilian life. Since this concept originated in the army itself, we in South Africa too can utilise it in combating poverty and unemployment. [Applause.]]

Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Madam Speaker, Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members, I am going to confine my speech to the position of South African military veterans who served in the old UDF, the SADF, the armed forces of the Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda and Ciskei, MK, Apla or the SANDF.

During the war, soldiers are popular and are treated as national heroes, but as soon as peace comes, they are invariably forgotten. Many of them risk their lives, endure hardships and are away from their loved ones for extended periods, and without any meaningful remuneration. In this House, I know of the hon Middleton, Eglin and Mlangeni who are all World War II veterans. They received a pittance the day they were demobilised.

We take pride in being former soldiers or former combatants. We are a unique club and no amount of money can buy one membership of this club. It is a body born out of the crucible of conflict that preserves that spirit of camaraderie that we cherish so deeply.

South African veterans are represented at the World Veterans Federation, whose aim is to build a free and peaceful world, after the suffering of war and imprisonment. It has a world membership of over 20 million war veterans, former resistance members, deportees, prisoners of war and victims of war from the five continents. The credo of this federation is:

None can speak more eloquently for peace than those who have fought in war. The voices of war veterans are a reflection of the longing for peace of people the world over. Humanity has earned the right to peace. Without it, there can be no hope for the future. And without hope, man is lost.

At the meeting of the general assembly of the World Veterans Federation in South Korea in 1997, I tabled a motion that was unanimously accepted on the recognition of the sacrifices made by war veterans and victims of war worldwide in bringing about and ensuring democratic governance.

I am also very concerned - and the Deputy Minister mentioned this - that we are neglecting and not promoting our military histories and heritage. I include all wars and conflicts inside and outside the borders of South Africa in which South African soldiers and combatants were involved. We recently experienced a tragedy with the theft of the beautiful bronze statue commemorating the drowning of 607 black South African soldiers in 1917, during World War I, when the SS Mendi sank in the English Channel.

We welcome the Special Pensions Act, which makes provision for the veterans involved in their struggle. But what about the thousands of former national servicemen who were either conscripted or who volunteered to do national service and extended national service and were obliged to serve in the citizen force or the commandos for an additional 12 years, without any opportunity of contributing to a pension fund? We could be sitting on a time bomb if we are not careful and do not do something about it.

On 18 September last year, I sent a written request to the Minister asking for an interview with him, to discuss veterans’ affairs, but nothing happened. On 27 April this year, I wrote to the Minister informing him about the visit of the president of the World Veterans Federation, Mr Hamid Ibrahim, to South Africa, in late May, suggesting that he meet this venerable gentleman. He has been entertained by the President of France and the King of Morocco, and was returning from Nigeria where he met with the Minister of Defence and his chiefs of staff. The hon the Minister was not available. Fortunately, the chief of the SANDF was available.

I would like to tell the Minister that I am not so sure whether he is serious about military veterans’ affairs. If he is, then he must initiate something tangible which will indicate his commitment. South Africa needs something similar to the Australian veterans’ ministry so as to plan for the integration of veterans into civil society. An agency separate from the Department of Defence needs to be established very soon.

The Service Corps, as far as I am concerned, looking at the programme last week, is mismanaged and does not have the capacity to fulfil this. It is important that the people of South Africa and the South African Government must not forget our own soldiers. [Applause.]

Ms N N MAPISA-NQAKULA: Madam Speaker, His Excellency the hon the Minister, Deputy Minister, secretary and members of the defence council present, and hon members of Parliament, very early in our democratic dispensation the people of South Africa left nothing to chance. They, through this Parliament, made sure that strong pillars of democratic practices were built. Transparency and accountability are amongst those pillars.

Establishing parliamentary oversight committees, including the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, was part of the firm foundation for good democratic governance. The Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence exists to make sure that intelligence accounts not only to the executive, but also to the public through Parliament.

We do our work as prescribed by the Intelligence Services Control Act, No 40 of 1994, as amended. Last week during the budget debate on the civilian intelligence services, the committee informed this House that the office of the Inspector-General had got off the ground. This office is one of the instruments of oversight designed to strengthen the office of the Ministers who have intelligence responsibilities.

The budget of defence intelligence is incorporated within that of the SA National Defence Force. The Joint Standing Committee on Defence votes for this budget, but accountability on the use of that budget with regard to defence intelligence is to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. I would like to tell the hon the Minister that this anomaly and dilemma that the legislature finds itself in has to be addressed.

I would like to tell the hon the Minister that the days when military intelligency was a law unto itself are long gone. All its activities have to be within the law and be accounted for accordingly. Each rand spent must yield measurable outcomes. The committee has put it to defence intelligence that accountability is not only a mere approval of the budget. It is not about balancing rands and cents, but it is what use the division is able to put it to.

The committee strives to strike a balance between secrecy and transparency when dealing with intelligence issues. This is no easy task, but I would like to tell the hon the Minister that we are managing. However, this committee will not allow a veil of secrecy to cover issues of clear mismanagement, maladministration or even abuse of power by defence intelligence.

The committee has interacted with defence intelligence regarding the budget and expenditure at least three times this past financial year. In its budget proposal, defence intelligence is mindful of the country’s basic requirements to improve the poor conditions under which our people live. Without security, peace, stability and an environment conducive to growth and investment, the developmental objectives of our country will remain but a wishful dream. In reviewing the budget, the committee plays its noble role for the success of good governance in this country.

We congratulate the intelligence division of the Defence Force on being able to respond to the extraordinary demands that have been placed on it. South Africa’s efforts are acknowledged when we talk about peace in central Africa. We enjoy relative stability and trust with our neighbours in the region. However, there are a few issues we would like to mention in this House concerning defence intelligence.

The military, like all other organs of the apartheid regime, deprived black people of their rights, career opportunities, job advancement and beneficial conditions of service. Our people were subjected to unfair treatment, based on ethnic and social origin, language and political orientation. It was against this background that the ministerial commission of inquiry into the transformation of defence intelligence, headed by Judge Moerane, was instituted, whose primary objective was to investigate and identify problem areas in the transformation of defence intelligence. Further, the commission would submit its findings and recommendations to the executive on how best these problems could be addressed. During this process there was a very clear understanding that neither movement within, nor redeployment of officers, would take place until the process had been concluded.

After the submission of the report to the executive, the executive would pronounce itself on the report. Regrettably, defence intelligence did not abide by this decision. Instead, some of the senior officers have expressed their reservations about the terms of reference of that commission. This, in our view as the committee, is unacceptable. In the seven years of democracy in this country, progress in transforming defence intelligence is still unsatisfactory. For instance, there is no clear human resource development policy. If it does exist, then it can only be on paper. Indications are that all is not well.

The view of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence is that, firstly, the criteria set out for identification of personnel for promotion within defence intelligence are below standard; and secondly, the division is far from reflecting the demographics of our country. For us representation is not the cherry on the top, with the bulk of the historically disadvantaged at the bottom of the pyramid. Rather, it is about equal representation of all groups at all levels. [Applause.]

Defence intelligence is not sensitive to the equity and gender policies of this country. It is a disgrace and, in fact, an indictment of our Government that there are no women managers in the decision-making echelons of defence intelligence. Defence intelligence must be in line with the rest of our Defence Force.

There is no doubt that the old-order tradition of lack of transparency is still entrenched in defence intelligence. This is evident in the manner in which personnel issues are dealt with. For example, the senior management of the division informs us that there are 200 approved posts which have not been filled for the past three years, the reason being that there are no suitable candidates in the whole of the SA National Defence Force. In our view, as the committee, no conscious effort has been made to attract people to defence intelligence. This situation indicates to us that the philosophy of defence intelligence management is not in line with the national objectives.

We had hoped, as the legislature, that the radical dismantling of the old order would be finished by now. As things stand, we still have a long way to go. That is why defence intelligence has not yet won the legitimacy and credibility of the people of our country.

Why defence intelligence? Questions are raised as to why we have an intelligence division in the Defence Force. Some ask this question out of sheer ignorance, others, of course, are concerned because of the apartheid era activities of this institution. Whilst we are politicians, we also have a responsibility to educate our people.

The executive and Parliament need reliable information when they are making decisions about sending SA National Defence Force personnel on missions outside South Africa, including peacekeeping missions. Also defence intelligence assesses foreign, political and military information, as well as scientific and technical intelligence for the benefit of our Government, amongst other things. Therefore, despite the problems raised above, we are committed to proper resourcing of the entire Defence Force, and we will support the budget allocated, including the budget being allocated to defence intelligence. The Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, though, calls on the executive to pronounce itself on the report of the Moerane commission without further delay. We are making this call precisely because the recommendations of the commission should be implemented as soon as possible to avoid some of the problems which currently exist in defence intelligence.

Our vision as the legislature is to build a society free of prejudices of any kind against people of South Africa. We call on the defence intelligence management to work with us for the realisation of this vision. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, I should perhaps start with the very big point made by the last speaker. With regard to the issues relating to defence intelligence I need only state that there is a process in motion now to address these matters. However, it must be considered that the validity of the comments and observations which have been made requires that we be more urgent in the matter and very incisive. Once the process has come to its conclusion, the executive - which includes, of course, Defence, the Intelligence department, the Presidency and so on, where we are discussing this at the level of clusters - will be in a position to present a report as soon as possible.

I should, I think, proceed also to acknowledge the observations and comments made by hon member Brig Gen Schalkwyk with regard to the issue of veterans. This is a very important matter. The legislation in place requires that we act on this matter. I have raised the issue now with some of the veterans’ associations to say that just as much as we have integrated the forces of the past, the veterans’ associations must all come together. Out of them must now be constituted a national veterans’ association. None of the veterans’ associations can expect to access taxpayer’s money unless they are all in a statutory body, established in terms of a law passed by this Parliament.

There is some foot dragging on both sides. Perhaps I can understand this, bearing in mind that these are people who come from the old order. The matter of moving in the new direction, of coming together and working together, is urgent, because whilst the leadership of the veterans’ associations delay, veterans are suffering the setback of not being able to access resources and facilities that they would otherwise be entitled to. I nevertheless wish to assure the hon member Brig Gen Schalkwyk that I will be putting extra effort into this matter in this year that lies ahead.

Agb Groenewald het die kwessie geopen. Meer spesifiek het hy my gevra of ek miskien ‘n Mercedes-Benz ontvang het of nie. Dit is ‘n vraag wat ek nie verwag het nie, maar ek moet onmiddellik antwoord nee, ek was nie gelukkig genoeg om ‘n Mercedes-Benz te ontvang nie. [Gelag.] In verband met die vraag wat die agb lid vra, of ek miskien nie die name kan bekendstel van die mense wat die Mercedes-Benze ontvang het nie, is ek ongelukkig nie in ‘n posisie om dit te doen nie. Ek verwag dat die ondersoek wat aan die gang is die moontlikheid sal skep vir die agentskap wat dit doen om van DaimlerChrysler die volledige lys van name te kry, en dan bekend te stel met die einde van hul ondersoek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The hon Groenewald opened the matter. More specifically, he asked me whether or not I had received a Mercedes-Benz. That was a question which I did not expect, but I must answer immediately that no, I was not fortunate enough to get a Mercedes-Benz. [Laughter.] With regard to the question raised by the hon member, whether I could make public the names of the people who received the Mercedes-Benz vehicles, I am unfortunately not in a position to do so. I expect that the investigation that is in progress will create the possibility that the agency dealing with it could obtain a complete list of names from DaimlerChrysler, and then to make the list public when they have concluded their investigation.]

Well, I should also acknowledge the fact that Parliament endorsed the acceptance of the acquisition. No political party, either in Government or the opposition, has endorsed corrupt practices. The acquisition was not intended to create an opportunity for corruption. That is why we in the executive accepted the recommendation of an investigation so that the issue could be resolved once and for all.

All of us are impatient. We would like the matter to be resolved today or even yesterday, but unfortunately we have to wait for the process to run its course. I have no doubt that when the right moment comes, the outcome of the investigation will be presented to the country and the facts of the situation will be made known. We must not be too impatient. Our forebears had a saying: Molato ha o bole. [A debt remains a debt as long as is not paid off.] If a crime has been committed, it will not get rotten. It does not matter when the right moment finally comes, there will always be men and women here to deal with it. Fortunately this will not take as long as all that. In a very short space of time we will get the final verdict on this issue.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Why are you so frightened of me? [Interjections.]

The MINISTER: No, please, let us just calm down. We are not afraid of any individual.

We are pursuing the matter and the investigation is going on. If there is a suggestion anywhere in this country, or in this House, that the democracy- supporting agencies that we have set up and which are now dealing with this matter are not competent to do so, we should pass a vote here and set in place structures that we are satisfied will be able to do it.

The suggestion that only the Special Investigating Unit can do this job - I repeat, that only it can do this job - implies that the other agencies are part of the corruption. That is the one point. The second point is, if I can ask the hon Ms Smuts to be patient, that the Special Investigating Unit, in my understanding, has a specific role. That is why it acts only on the specific instructions of the President.

The Unit was set up to recover money where it was established that Government has lost money. It was set up as an arm that would have the power to go and seek to recover money lost to Government. That has been my understanding. As far as I am concerned, as soon as and whenever it can be established that in this deal Government lost money, in this contract or any other contract, I can see no reason why we would avoid asking the President to charge the Special Investigating Unit with the task of recovering such money.

But there is legislation. We cannot pass a law here and say this body is set up for this purpose and then want to use it for something else. I think we are misleading ourselves, that is my reasoning. So, in so far as that situation is concerned, there is no exclusion of the Special Investigating Unit, but, when the time is ripe, we will arrive at that point. [Interjections.] May I pass that point?

Ek wil terugkeer na die agb Groenewald. Die indruk wat geskep is dat ek na die basisse sal gaan om dáár moeilikheid te gaan veroorsaak, is onregverdig en ongegrond. [I want to come back to the hon Groenewald. The impression that was created, that I would go to bases to go and make trouble there, is unjust and unfounded.]

I will not run the SA National Defence Force from the comfort and shining windows of the Armscor building. When I learn that there are problems in any base in this country, I will go there. I have the chiefs here who initially provided me with reports of developments in the various bases in which incidents took place, but I can tell hon member in their presence that, in the case of Phalaborwa, for instance, the commanding officer there lied to the chiefs. When I pursued the false report, he lied to me.

Since I am not unable to move around this country, I flew there, and then I began to do an inspection in loco with officers and the commander himself present. He began to tell a different story from the one on the document he had sent to me in Pretoria. It was out of the mouth of the commanding officer that the falseness of his report, both to the chiefs and to me, became clear. In such circumstances, I understood the position well, and hon members would have understood better had they been there.

Ek besef toe onmiddellik wat die probleem is. Wanneer iemand wat betrokke is in die Weermag, op enige vlak van ons Suid-Afrikaanse leer, ‘n gesindheid het wat sê: Ek is die baas en jy is die `kaffer''', gaan dit probleme veroorsaak. Dit kan ek verstaan. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek verstaan dit baie goed. Die probleem in daardie stadium was nie 'n kwessie dat die waarheid, of die inligting, nie beskikbaar was nie, dit was die feit dat die Hoof van die Weermag en die Ministerkaffers’’ was. Dit was die posisie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die hele atmosfeer in daardie basis, insluitende die vloekery wat daar plaasgevind het, het daarop gedui dat die situasie heeltemal ongesond was. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I realised immediately what the problem was. When someone who is involved in the Defence Force, at any level of the South African army, has an attitude saying: I am the boss and you are the `kaffir''', then it will cause problems. That I can understand. [Interjections.] I understand that very well. The problem in that situation was not a question of the truth, or the information, not being available, it was the fact that the Chief of the Defence Force and the Minister werekaffirs’’. That was the position. [Interjections.] The whole atmosphere on that base, including the swearing that took place there, indicated that the situation was entirely unhealthy.]

I did something about it. I did not take action against some insignificant people. I said to the chiefs that something had to be done about that individual who, in my view, did not qualify under our Constitution to lead the men and women in that base. What they did was not my business, but after that, right there and then, I addressed the attitude of the whites, and that of the blacks.

The problem this country faces is not that of whites alone. There are whites going around with wrong, negative attitudes of the past, but there are also blacks who are guilty of similar weak behaviour. [Interjections.] Hon members can look at the copies of the speeches that I delivered there, or listen to the tapes that were made when I made the addresses, and they will find that there is not a single individual, of any category, whom I did not rap over the knuckles.

I am proud to say that I can go back to Phalaborwa tomorrow, or to Pietersburg, Nelspruit, Durban or any of the bases where I was, and none of the members of the SANDF will be able to say that I went there to take sides. They will say that I told them: Die dae van baasskap is verby.'' [The days ofbaasskap’’ are over.] But at the same time, none of those people, even if they are my cousins, who are black like me, are entitled to disobey and to behave like lords in the base. Every one of us has to observe the discipline of the institution. The SANDF is a military institution. Commands must be given. They must be carried out if they are lawful, but if they are not lawful commands, they cannot be obeyed. [Applause.]

I should perhaps briefly return to the issue of the treatment of the returning fighters who came from the liberation movement, because it is a very sensitive issue. It is not correct, I submit, to suggest that nothing has been done about the issue. Apart from work that was done by the political parties of those fighters in Government, all of those who did not want to become members of the SANDF were given an opportunity, either to serve or to take demobilisation.

The ones who were on the certified registers received that treatment, the ones who were not were incorporated in the SANDF. At the present moment, and legislation has been passed here, we are working at addressing the issue of unequal pensions for those who are still serving. But we are going beyond that, because we are now considering looking at what to do about some who may not have been so well attended to as we might have wished.

This country and the Cabinet of this country work with a budget that is limited. Today we can do some things. Tomorrow we will be able to do others. The question that I was raising with regard to veterans, for instance, could not have been dealt with right at the beginning. But now that there are some resources we can deal with the matter.

We are dealing with these issues step by step. Hon members, as this Parliament, receive recommendations from the executive and they are able, therefore, given the limited budget we have before us, to decide whether the recommendations we make are right or not. I will be approaching members on more occasions with further recommendations with regard to how to deal with these issues.

However, with regard to some of the caricatures I saw on Sunday, when Gen Masondo was talking about the issue to Debra Patta, who took demobilisation? Their names are there. They got money and now they sit before the TV people, with a bottle of brandy going around, and say that they have been completely betrayed and so on. This is the kind of thing I am not prepared to accept.

Gen Masondo, since he came here, has been part of the process of mobilising funds, as a member of the ANC, within the ANC. He mobilised, within the Government, for those who were members of the ANC, more than R70 million under demobilisation pension payouts. He is dealing with all these things that we are talking about.

The last point I want to make is that I am sorry to hear some of the rumours about the late lieutenant who is about to be buried. Nobody, not even the Deputy Minister, who is a relative of the deceased, has raised the matter with me before. But I have raised the matter with the officers. When he fell ill he had a fatal tumour about which nothing could be done. We had him in our military hospital in Pretoria. We received a request, through the good offices of the hon Thandi Modise, who is the chairperson of the defence committee, and he was airlifted from there to bring him closer to his family here in Cape Town because the Deputy Minister is here, and he was kept in the military hospital here too. As I say, it was a fatal situation. Nothing could be done. He was a terminal case and died there. We are trying to meet all the obligations we would like to meet in relation to the matter.

I must say that members of the SA National Defence Force are receiving treatment in our hospitals. I and my family receive treatment in the same hospitals. I do not get any better treatment than they get. We are all receiving the same treatment and I do that because I want to keep track of how our military hospitals are performing.

I am not saying they are perfect. I think there is room for improvement and we are discussing how to improve that. Even where there is need and necessity to find partnerships with the private sector, we are working on these issues. But we are very proud of the services we are giving in the light of this budget that we are given by the Government. We know how this nation is concerned about the matter, and I do not think there is much that should be complained about.

I nevertheless followed the matter up because I wanted to make sure that we know precisely what happened, where the mishap may have been. [Applause.]

Business suspended at 13:21 and resumed at 14:15.

                          Afternoon Sitting

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 16 - Housing:

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, hon members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemenÿ.ÿ.ÿ.

… sishova ingolovane, sixova udaka, sakha izindlu, sakha isizwe. [… we are pushing the wheelbarrow, we are mixing the mortar, we are building houses and we are building a nation.]

Re tšhofa kiriba. [We are mixing the mortar.]

Hi pfuva ridaka, hi aka tindlu, hi aka rixaka. [We are mixing the mortar, building houses and building a nation.]

The lack of housing is the most visible expression of cumulative poverty, a characteristic of physically and socially degraded areas. Most of the time this leads to other problems, such as social exclusion. Processes that perpetuate poverty flourish under conditions of want, and result in unemployment, illiteracy, failure in school, and eventually the phenomenon of school dropouts occurs. Drug addiction and low income plague individuals living in such conditions.

There is, therefore, a close correlation between housing and the social environment.

Housing needs have a qualitative aspect that relates to the insufficiency of housing in terms of numbers, the suitability for families and how housing is acquired and for how much. The qualitative aspect is translated into a lack of habitability, such as overcrowded occupation, the sharing of a small dwelling by more than one family, as in KwaMashu, KwaZulu-Natal, and the extreme degradation of buildings and their lack of safety.

It is with this understanding that we have approached the issue of housing in our environment. We have put in place a policy and supporting legislation. We have planned our programmes that meet the national goals, taking into consideration the local and specific requirements of housing. The poor remain our primary target group.

As I stand before hon members, 5 million South Africans who did not have a roof over their heads will return at the end of today to a place they call home, and will have running water and sanitation, which they did not have before we embarked on this journey. [Applause.] This is a journey travelled by very few, if any, in the world, a journey to build 1,129 million houses in the six years of this democratic ANC-led Government, a journey that traversed the slippery slopes of consolidating more than 10 different housing departments that existed in 1994, fragmented policies and 34 pieces of legislation. This journey took us through the potholes of reluctance by financial institutions to extend credit to previously marginalised communities, through redlining, and through defusing the land mines of fraud, corruption and criminal activity.

So far we have, indeed, come, but we are still faced with daunting challenges, albeit different from those we faced at the beginning of this journey. Then, it was how to provide houses; today we assess the impact of HIV/Aids on housing. Then, it was what subsidy mechanism to introduce; now it is how to promote a savings culture to augment the housing subsidies. Then, it was where to build new houses; today it is how to eradicate informal settlements. Then, it was introducing a new policy and administrative procedures; today it is policy enhancements and the review of administrative procedures to improve efficiency. On this journey we have learnt by doing and have a true success story to tell, because by not doing there can never be learning or progress.

Estimates by Statistics SA in the year 2000 indicate that approximately 53,6% of our population lives in urban areas. This is as a result of natural population growth and rural-to-urban migration. This has been exacerbated by inappropriate policies, a skewed distribution of resources and wealth, and the general pull factors of growing economies and cities.

South Africa is not unique, as our developing counterparts of Latin America, Asia and our African continent experience the phenomenon of informal settlements. As a result of the shortage of adequate and available shelter, people occupy any vacant land they can find, and they put up shacks in areas without sanitation, infrastructure or social amenities. Others occupy old, disused and/or abandoned structures, or prefabricated buildings of inferior material that are in an advanced stage of decay, with very deficient safety or habitability standards.

Informal settlements have mushroomed mainly because of inadequate resource allocation for housing during the apartheid era. This has resulted in a huge backlog, inappropriate policies such as the homeland policies and the Group Areas Act, a lack of adequate land for the majority in the country and a lack of available land for settlement by the poor in the inner cities where there is employment and economic opportunities. That history is still with us.

Not enough land exists for low-cost housing in the inner cities. Where it does, the costs are exorbitant. The Department of Land Affairs and other departments which manage land are currently looking at ways of dealing with this problem. Unique to our country is the fact that most land is in private ownership and most land occupied illegally is unsuitable for development. This means that the in situ upgrading of informal settlements is seldom possible, requiring the acquisition of new land and the relocation of communities. Despite these difficulties, I am happy to report to this House that our informal upgrading programme has resulted in a total of 293 projects, providing shelter to 232 000 families who have had their shacks in informal settlements converted into proper homes across the country.

In response to the President’s prioritisation of the urban renewal programme, the department has led the way with the implementation of the Alexandra Urban Renewal Programme, with R3,5 million used for feasibility studies and planning work. In KwaMashu in excess of R20 million has been allocated for redevelopment, over two years, through our Human Settlement Redevelopment Programme.

Where land has been available in the inner city, the Department of Housing has implemented programmes that have drawn low-income earners into the inner cities. Through the institutional subsidy, a subprogramme of our capital housing subsidy scheme, 70 medium-density housing projects, which comprise 33 935 housing units, have been concluded in the provinces. [Applause.] The number of housing units which have been planned for the financial year 2001-02 is 16 638.

The institutional subsidy has been utilised by the department as an instrument to combine the Government subsidy and private-sector funding. We have had remarkable support from governments abroad and some NGOs through grant funding. Medium-density development is more costly and requires professional management through social housing associations. The implementation process for the institutional subsidy mechanism requires structuring of partnerships, which is normally complex and time-consuming, and additional investment by the private sector at project level, with financial models unique to each project.

Even more difficult is the establishment of the institutions and the capacity-building of new members of social housing issues, to the extent that the institution is viable and fully operational. The result is that medium-density housing and social housing projects have lead times of more than one year. Project-linked subsidy projects, on the other hand, which have been our main subprogramme of delivery, have a seven-month lead time, and no requirement for institutional establishment and inherent capacity- building.

There are several housing associations in the country that are functioning at optimal level, but more will be needed when more stock is delivered. The R16 000 subsidy is directly invested in the property and not linked to the individual recipient, to allow for mobility. Through this programme, we also provide for rental to ownership within the same projects to accommodate those who would wish to own.

Social housing, however, is a new concept to South Africa. Prior to 1994, these institutions did not exist at all. More importantly, we introduced the institutional subsidy in December 1995 to facilitate social housing. Later in 1997 we established the Social Housing Foundation, in partnership with the Dutch government, to promote social housing. We have also utilised abandoned buildings by transforming them into high-density housing through the renovation of existing flats or the conversion of commercial or office buildings into housing units through the institutional housing subsidy programme. In other cases we have developed disused infill sites for medium- density housing, all contributing to inner city regeneration. Transitional housing development is used to accommodate persons temporarily before they move on to more permanent accommodation.

The housing policy has, as its central thrust, security of tenure. To date about 350 000 families enjoy secure tenure through our programme of transferring old rental stock for ownership. In addition, 1,129 million families currently benefit from our programme that provides housing with security of tenure. This government has chosen that route as a way of bringing dignity to our people, but also because, of all elements of the right to housing, it is the right to security of tenure that forms the most indispensable core element. When security of tenure - the right to feel safe in one’s own home, to control one’s own housing environment and not to be arbitrarily forcibly evicted - is threatened or simply nonexistent, it jeopardises the full employment of housing rights.

It is important to know that securing tenure for a household does not necessarily secure tenure for women and children, unless the principle of gender equality is adhered to. The principle of human rights, therefore, should be respected and all persons should be treated equally and should enjoy security of tenure. This in itself is empowerment of the disadvantaged.

Providing a house with secure tenure assists the poor to establish a foothold in the urban economy. A house provides a place where people can study and improve their lives, whilst moving out of the web of poverty, especially when the low-income areas are functional. The house can be put up as collateral to access credit. To date, the transfer of council houses for ownership has created an asset base of about R28 billion.

The construction of RDP houses has empowered emerging contractors to create jobs around their projects. Many of our people have now acquired skills they did not have before through our capacity- building programmes run by tertiary institutions in every province and through our technical support at the support centres. The multiplier effects of our projects have also boosted local economies and SMME development. Skills developed in our communities include brickmaking, windowmaking, microbuilding, fencemaking, plastering, roofing and wall and floor tiling.

We proudly speak of women developers and contractors who entered the construction industry to build, but also to earn a living through construction. After an evaluation of women’s involvement in the sector was conducted, it was discovered that few projects are given to women. In order to reverse this, our housing Minmec committed itself to ensuring that provinces give at least 10% of their subsidies to women developers and contractors. It was made clear that there will be no tolerance for rented female faces. Genuine participation is what we are bent on promoting, not fronting.

We further passed through this House the Housing Amendment Bill, which will prevent the sale of subsidised housing to private individuals. It introduces a pre-emptive clause on the title deed of every subsidised house and makes provision for sale only to provincial governments, in order for the property to be reallocated to other beneficiaries on the waiting lists. This also prohibits the auctioning of subsidised housing by local governments and ensures that one arm of Government does not undermine the efforts of another.

On Sunday, on e-tv, we heard of the case of a Ms Payne from Paarl, who was evicted from a subsidised house she was renting. It is unclear why she was evicted, but it was crystal clear that she was renting from a landlord who owned the subsidised house. These are new emergent trends that we are investigating to ensure that subsidised housing is used for the intended purposes and that we eliminate any unintended consequences of our policies. We are committed to creating diverse choices for our people within the framework of the housing programme.

More importantly, this indicates a growing demand for rental housing. We shall continue to focus our delivery programme on rental housing in line with the Rental Housing Act of 1999. We will endeavour to implement the Presidential Jobs Summit housing pilot projects, which will result in the development of 50 000 to 150 000 rental housing units over a period of three years, drawing on private-sector investment.

Despite the efforts of Government, access to finance still remains the greatest challenge to low-cost housing development. Since 1994 this Government has established four housing finance institutions to normalise the housing finance lending environment. To date, these institutions have recorded the following progress: Prior to its closure in 1998, the Mortgage Indemnity Fund facilitated the resumption of lending, with 15 financial institutions accredited and indemnity cover in 543 areas in the country. A total of 140 000 loans were granted to the value of R10 billion, of which only R4,1 billion was in the subsidised market.

The National Housing Finance Corporation last year alone disbursed R741 million for end-user finance to facilitate 150 330 loans. Servcon, on the other hand, out of an original portfolio of 33 319 properties, now has 23 203 properties. They had signed 19 467 agreements by the end of April of this year, which constitutes 69,7% of the total portfolio, against the target of 70%. The National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency, Nurcha, has to date signed guarantees to the value of R171,1 million and raised R290,5 million in working capital finance. This has facilitated 69 965 housing units. This institution also has a new mandate of mobilising saving for housing purposes.

This House facilitated the enactment of the Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Act late last year. This legislation is intended to ensure that we monitor the lending patterns of financial institutions and all lenders in the housing finance sector. It is intended to eliminate redlining, a discriminatory practice by banks not to lend to marginalised communities. It will force banks to disclose the reasons for not advancing a home loan or mortgage and will ensure the elimination of discrimination based on reasons other than sound financial underwriting criteria.

During this year I will be presenting to the Cabinet the next phase of this intervention, the Community Reinvestment Bill, which will aim to promote investment by the private sector in marginalised communities, through identifying causal deterrents for investments and creating incentives and disincentives for future investments. As we look forward to the ongoing challenge of housing the nation, we have renewed our commitment to providing housing at scale whilst focusing more on qualitative aspects of housing delivery. We compare this to the previous term of Government.

Our engagements in the international area are set out in Annexure B. They aim to broaden our influence and the sharing of best practices in policy and programme implementation. Our efforts locally will ensure better planning and budgeting in the context of the MTEF, to promote efficient management to eliminate maladministration and mismanagement and to prevent subsidy fraud through the improvement of subsidy administrative systems.

Having thus shared with the House what lies ahead of us, we once again roll up our sleeves for another year. We are already hard at it to house the homeless people of our country. I would like to thank all those who have made this journey a success: the provincial MECs for housing, department officials, the housing institutions, members of the portfolio committee and the study groups, active members of our communities who are here with us today, NGOs and everybody who has lent a hand to make sure that we change the character and the nature of South African human settlements. [Applause.] Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, housing development in South Africa has played a powerful unifying role in bringing disadvantaged people together in extremely difficult circumstances. The DA believes that the benefits of state housing assistance should reach as many homeless people as possible. By giving people ownership of the land and assistance in building their own houses, we are creating a national and also a personal pride that is needed to restore the moral fibre of our people. Housing development serves as an engine for economic growth, providing jobs, skills and business opportunities in the private sector and jobs for all. Ownership of a house and land is a route to finance.

A million dwellings have been built. Measured against the number of subsidies allocated, one should consider congratulating this Government on its achievements. Building over a million houses in just over five years is by any standards no mean achievement. But, if one takes a closer look at these dwellings and ignores the propaganda being spread by Government, then any patriot becomes concerned.

On a recent visit by the Portfolio Committee on Housing, the following problems were highlighted. In the Northern Province the Department does not have sufficient funds to capacitate and train developers. There are some squatter camps in the area, especially in rural towns, and the department has some difficulties in addressing them. The national Government has not been responding properly as regards the flood disaster experienced in February 2000. The department needs a policy on disaster management to be able to address the plight of communities when they experience disasters.

There are tensions between traditional leaders and new local government systems. The Department of Labour does not make a follow-up on trained people after the projects are completed to ensure that they are employed elsewhere. No certificates are given to the trained people.

Die DA is gebore uit gesonde verstand en ‘n diep gevoel van patriotisme. Die DA se patriotisme strek verder as net die vlag en die volkslied. Dit is ‘n patriotisme wat mense nie net bloot as stemvee beskou wat af en toe met krummels van die ANC-base se tafels gelukkig moet wees nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is nie goed genoeg nie dat die armes slegs gevoed word wanneer die begroting goedgekeur word en ‘n klein groepie na dié ete genooi word. Dit is nie voldoende nie dat ‘n paar werkloses ‘n paar dae lank teen hongerlone moet werk wanneer die Minister ‘n plek besoek of ‘n projek van stapel stuur. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The DA was born out of sound common sense and a deep feeling of patriotism. The DA’s patriotism goes beyond the flag and the national anthem. It is a patriotism that does not regard people as mere voting cattle who should be happy with a few crumbs from the tables of the ANC bosses every now and again. [Interjections.] It is not good enough that the poor are only fed when the budget is approved and a small group is invited to this meal. It is not sufficient that only a few jobless people should work for a starvation wage for a couple of days whenever the Minister visits a place or launches a project.]

When I address the poor of this country, in cities and in rural areas, they want to know what happened to the promises that were made to them during the struggle under the leadership of the liberation movement. [Interjections.] I was part of a detachment of student activists that asked the people of this country to sacrifice their houses, their families and their lives. Most were willing to give their lives for liberation. We promised people we would build better houses than the four-roomed houses of the apartheid government. What has been built are one-roomed dwellings for families consisting of six to ten members. Roofs are leaking, and the Minister should have been here with an umbrella, not a hard hat. Many left their new houses and went back to the informal settlement and the “mikhukhus” because they were much more spacious than the little decentralised hostels.

The question arises: Would it not have been better if the citizens had been told beforehand what size and quality of houses they were going to receive so that they could have had reasonable expectations? A recent study on housing rights funded by the Foundation for Human Rights and performed by the Built Environment Support Group shows that the right of South Africans to access adequate housing, as entrenched in the Constitution, is not being properly realised. In fact, it further states that if South Africa’s housing initiatives are not improved, this will create an additional health, security, educational and environmental burden for the state. We promised that the doors of learning shall be opened to all. The only open doors are those classrooms where the doors have been stolen for firewood or by vandals to sell in informal settlements.

As part of a detachment of unionists, I asked workers to participate in union actions in supporting strikes and consumer boycotts. [Interjections.]

The ANC led us to believe that by wrenching the power from the capitalists in their ivory towers, the people would gain ownership of the means of production. The sweet fruits of liberation should be tasted by all. We have been lied to. The elite of the ANC have one hand on the levers of power in Government and in the private sector and the other hand in their own pockets. The patriots of this country are still poor. They are still unemployed and oppressed, but this time by their own leaders. The ANC are patriots for the elite. Only they enjoy the fruits of liberation.

Die DA se begrip van patriotisme behels dat ‘n regering vir die mense werk en nie net vir ‘n paar van hulle nie. DA-patriotisme behels dat ‘n regering die welsyn van sy mense op die hart dra. Dit behels dat die Regering ‘n plig het om kwaliteitonderwys, kwaliteitgesondheidsdienste en kwaliteitbehuising te lewer, nie eenvertrekkwartiere sonder ventilasie en plafonne, waarvan die mure kraak en vog deur die mure en fondasies insypel nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The DA’s concept of patriotism entails that a government works for the people and not only for a few of them. DA patriotism entails that a government will have the welfare of its people at heart. This entails that the Government has a duty to provide quality education, quality health services and quality housing, not one-roomed units without ventilation and ceilings, the walls of which are cracking and with damp seeping in through the walls and foundations.]

How can parents raise their families in one room, where there is no privacy between parent and child? How can students study in housing units that serve as decentralised hostels for single men and at houses that can become homes? All this while an expatriate, Coleman Andrews, earns nearly R700 million in less than three years. This from taxpayers’ money.

In stede daarvan dat die ANC almal wat met hulle verskil, uitskel, moet hulle eerder begin om ‘n diepgaande selfondersoek te doen en na hulle eie toenemende onvermoë om ‘n effektiewe regering te wees kyk. [Instead of quarrelling with everyone that disagrees with them, the ANC should rather conduct a thorough introspection and examine their own increasing inability to be an effective government.]

The ANC should note the worrying signs of civil disobedience all across the country, where communities burn railway stations and march against ANC councillors and premiers, as has happened in Soweto and the Northern Cape.

Die DA is die skild wat die mense van Suid-Afrika sal beskerm teen ‘n ANC- regering wat korrupsie toesmeer en belastingbetalersgeld verkwis. [Tussenwerpsels.] [The DA is the shield that will protect the people of South Africa against an ANC government that covers up corruption and wastes the taxpayers’ money. [Interjections.]]

Ms N E HANGANA: Madam Speaker, Minister of Housing, comrades and members of Parliament, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the housing community of the Western Cape. [Applause.]

We have represented here the Unicity of Cape Town - councillors who work on housing issues - Habitat for Humanity, rent tribunal nominees, the Community Housing Company, the provincial legislature, housing NGOs, the Development Action Group, the Homeless People’s Federation, the People’s Dialogue, the former provincial housing boards - we did away with the housing boards - the media, anti-eviction campaign organisers, evicted families and those facing eviction … [Applause.] … senior developers and many others. These community members have come here today to listen to the DA and what it intends doing for the poor of this province. These people are here to listen very carefully to the DA’s message to them.

Housing delivery in the last seven years has satisfactorily addressed the housing needs of the poor within an environment plagued by socioeconomic challenges. Employment and low wages have substantially affected affordability levels in the housing sector. However, the Government has designed a number of strategies to address these challenges, which include, firstly, an infrastructure investment approach to stimulate the economy in both rural and urban areas; secondly, urban renewal strategies to upgrade public infrastructure and to boost local economic development; and thirdly, the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy to enhance the quality of life of the rural poor.

Sustainable urban development is one of the most pressing challenges facing the human community in the 21st century. The world’s urban areas are now home to nearly half of humankind. Housing markets for the urban poor vary greatly from country to country.

Women are seen as an underutilised asset for development. It is assumed that the increase in economic activity will, in and of itself, lead to increased equity. In the efficiency approach, women’s unpaid time is used as a self-help component in economic activities, specifically with respect to human resources development and for the management of community problems. It assumes that women’s unpaid labour in areas such as child care, fuel gathering, food processing, the preparation of meals and nursing the sick, is elastic. For this reason, notions of empowering women by increasing control over their own lives, strengthening their capacity and enlarging their choices are more appropriate.

Empowerment is about recognising that grass-roots inputs to plans and projects are vital and that gender-aware planning principles should be opened to sympathetic and imaginative interpretation in different contexts. Speaking about empowerment, just a few weeks ago the Cape Town Unicity, under the leadership of the Democratic Alliance, announced an across-the- board rates increase. Due to the imposition of the Group Areas Act over a 30-year period, three differentiated property markets developed within Cape Town. Following the demise of the Group Areas Act and the normalisation of the land market, these properties should experience significant relative adjustments in their rates.

Property values in historically white group areas have escalated without an equivalent increase in rates, thus further increasing the distortion in property rates relative to their current market values. Certain properties, like those on the Blouberg beachfront, for example, have experienced substantial escalations in price compared to areas such as Mitchells Plain, Belville South and Macassar, that have not attracted the same level of demand and have not benefited from significant levels of property price escalation.

We have gone past the elections, and we are now beginning to see the true colours of the Democratic Alliance. This across-the-board increase of 7% will put a further financial burden on the poor and the unemployed. [Applause.] The DA-led council has also failed to introduce a single approach to rebates for the elderly and disabled. The ANC is again warning the voters out there that the DA does not care for the poor, and has no history of caring for the poor of this country.

Right across the poor communities in the Western Cape, evictions are taking place on a daily basis. The New NP should be ashamed of having misled these communities to vote for the DA. Some of those people voted for the Democratic Alliance in the last elections. I can assure hon members that these evictions would not be taking place if elections were going to take place next year. The ANC, throughout its history - outside government, and now in government - has always defended and protected the poor from either forced removals or evictions from their homes. That is why we have put in place housing institutions to enable the Government to have bilateral talks with our people instead of literally throwing people out into the streets.

Communities in Lavender Hill, Belhar, Delft, Joe Slovo and Albow Gardens have received eviction notices. In Albow Gardens 100 families have received eviction notices; in Sandrift, 18 families; and in Joe Slovo, 20 families. In Du Noon the evictions were suspended through the intervention of Sanco. When the residents called upon the DA councillor to come and help them she refused, saying that she had 13 000 other people to look after. [Interjections.] Such are their councillors! It was again through the intervention of Comrade Tony Yengeni, the MP for the area, that the evictions in the poor areas of Milnerton flats did not materialise.

Why did the DA wait until after the elections to carry out these evil deeds? What does the unicity mean for the poor working class communities? It means, firstly, that instead of low rates for the poor, the unicity decides on a 7% increase across the board; secondly, that instead of scrapping the arrears and stopping the evictions, the unicity applies to the courts to evict thousands of poor people; and, thirdly, that instead of free water, people are told to pay the bills first before they can get free water.

Peter Marais has been hard at work trying to build his image in the media. He has been making a lot of noise about his strategies on how he will get rid of the shacks on the N2 and remove the community to Delft South. Why did they not identify an area nearer to town, where those people work? Why did they shove them there on the periphery? Why do they promote the old apartheid Group Areas Act? When is this province going to implement the integrated approach? In Peter Marais’ media stunt, he is very silent on the massive evictions taking place in the unicity.

The MEC for housing, Mr Herandien, should instead look into the corrupt members of the provincial administration’s housing ministry who manage blocks of low-cost flats in Parow where people pay as little as R180 a month for a three-bedroomed flat. Peter Marais has five family members living in that complex - his son-in-law and his sisters-in-law. It is believed that his three sisters-in-law own property elsewhere. Again, it is believed that another relative of Peter Marais lives at Parow Park. Mr Herandien has refused to act, demanding proof first. The proof is for Mr Herandien to investigate. We must first find out why there are so many relatives of Mr Marais living in that complex. Talk about nepotism! Those flats are meant for the poor, and about 80% of the people living in them do not meet the criteria.

Lastly, the ANC Government has always shown compassion towards the needs of the poor. We are committed to that today, we will be committed to that tomorrow and we will be committed to that forever. [Applause.]

Mr B W DHLAMINI: Madam Speaker, hon members, when I was growing up, there was a popular song which went thus:

Zingaba buhlungu zonke izinto emhlabeni kodwa hhayi njengokuswela indawo yokulala. [Ubuwelewele.] [Anything can be painful in this world, but there is nothing more painful than having no place to sleep. [Interjections.]]

One needs to be dark-skinned in this country to fully understand the meaning of this song. When, therefore, 1994 dawned on South Africa, millions of our people who had literally lived in conditions which were worse than those of white-owned dogs became hopeful that at last their woes had come to an end. It is with this in mind that I rise on behalf of the IFP to support the Housing Vote. It is with this awareness that I wish to articulate the IFP’s contribution to this debate.

The IFP welcomes the steps which the Department of Housing has taken to improve the conditions of the homeless African majority and other South African citizens. The department’s shift from quantity to quality in its housing programmes is appreciated. While it is true that South Africa needs millions of housing units to be able to satisfy the demand for houses, it would not be wise to sacrifice quality for the sake of attaining high numbers.

The war against homelessness is a South African war. It must be fought by all South Africans as part of a broader struggle for the ultimate realisation of complete liberation. It demands the same commitment which millions of our people have. We note, with sadness, that some of the banking institutions, as well as credit bureaux, do not view this as their war. They must be reminded that they are not doing the homeless any favours. They should either swim or sink with the whole of the country. They, like all of us, must ensure that this fledging democracy survives. The country expects them to play a meaningful role in levelling the playing field so that our people have access to credit and loans to build houses.

To take this struggle further, I would like to urge the department and the Minister to review the notion that a serviced site costs R7 500 and that the balance is for the top structure and the professional fee. I believe that with the sum of R17 000 as a subsidy, some developers are able to produce structures of better quality than the houses we produce at the moment. An actual example of this is to be found in the Northern Province, where they produce a 52m2 quality house.

The development of residential areas must form part of the integrated development strategy of the Government. Intertwined with the development of a residential area must be the development of industrial infrastructure. This will help in job creation for local residents. It will also save them from travelling long distances to shops and places of work.

The IFP congratulates the Minister of Housing on having introduced the Housing Amendment Bill of 2000 to regulate the sale of state-subsidised houses. We believe, like the Minister, that housing backlogs will not be eliminated if people are liberally allowed to economically speculate with their state-subsidised houses.

Corruption is a cancer that threatens whatever good intentions Government may have. It is slowly entrenching itself as another culture in our society. The IFP therefore welcomes any effort to fight the scourge of corruption. It is for this reason that we applaud the initiative of the Department of Housing to establish an investigation unit to fight this disease. We are aware of allegations of corruption by Government officials and individuals parading as community leaders, who are involved in allocating houses to the poor.

The IFP observes with some concern that the housing policy is biased towards the urban areas. Unless Government adopts a conscious and deliberate programme to ensure that there is deliberate housing development in rural areas, we shall continue to grapple with the housing problem because rural people will realise, if they have not already done so, that salvation lies in building shacks in the cities. More shacks will mean health hazards and skepticism by potential investors with their perceptions of crime.

What further complicates the problem of rural housing is the unfinished business between Government and traditional leaders. This matter is bound to impact negatively on rural housing programmes, because the reality is that we need the co-operation of traditional leaders to successfully execute these rural housing programmes.

It is ironic that here in South Africa, a country which is at the forefront of the African Renaissance, institutions which are not African by origin find more acceptance and attention than those that are home-made. Prof Herbert Vilakazi highlights this as a problem facing Africa in his book entitled Is there an African Democracy? He says:

The gigantic problem shaping the fate of Africa is the gigantic discontinuity between the African village and the African city or town. The first problem we have in Africa is that the African educated elite, which is crucial in guiding the state, directly or indirectly copied the generality of Europeans in harbouring deep-seated contempt for African culture and African civilisation. Since the primary and most distinct character of African culture and civilisation is the African rural person, therefore, the contempt of the African educated elite for African culture is personified in the rural African.

Another concern that we have is that there appears to be a lack of zeal to ensure that hostels are improved and upgraded. We urge the department to show more enthusiasm in the upgrading of hostels. We hope that the allocation of capital funds from the SA Housing Fund to the provinces will lead to tangible progress in this regard.

In conclusion, I wish to say that it takes only seven days for a puppy to open its eyes and be able to see after birth. Unfortunately, seven years after we attained democracy in this country, there are some parties which still cannot see any change in the lives of our people. [Interjections.] I suggest that they see an optician. [Applause.]

Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, members of Parliament, I would like to take this opportunity to emphasise the importance we attach to the housing strategy objectives of building a partnership between people, the private sector and Government. Therefore we can further intensify our links and co-operation with the private sector for the successful implementation of the various economic housing initiatives.

Our second primary target audience should consist of people whose earnings are low and, to compound the problem, those who are retrenched or go on pension. They are regarded as high-risk cases by financial institutions. However, most of these people belonged to a savings scheme or have been effecting some method of saving. We must tap into this market and galvanise it into action for housing development and ownership. We are on course. Steadily the dark clouds of despair are lifting, giving way to reason and a season of hope and a better life for all.

At the dawn of our second phase after the first five years, the seventh year, our practical actions have ensured that none can challenge the ANC- led Government. We meant it when we said that we were a nation at work for a better life for all. Society must guarantee the people’s dignity on the basis of good-quality housing and a quality life for all, regardless of race, colour or disability.

Daar mag geen baasskap toegelaat word soos in die Wes-Kaap nie, waar die DA, wat welaf en ryk is, die armes verdruk soos rotte in gate. [Applous.] [No dominance may be allowed, like in the Western Cape, where the DA, which is affluent and rich, oppresses the poor like rats in holes. [Applause.]]

We must seek to replace the people who, in many instances, continue to be brutally disadvantaged at the expense of those who have. To replace the informal settlements, the bond defaulters, the homeless and all others who are affected by poverty with a community with a better life is a huge task. This task can be carried out by Government agencies like Servcon.

The challenge facing Servcon is that they do not have the infrastructure or the capacity to evaluate whether the communities are receiving value for money. There are instances of people being charged double for houses. The challenge to us as Government is to educate and develop communities to question and be vigilant to malpractices. In this regard, the budget of agencies like Servcon should be looked at to see what capacity we need. For example, we need a surveyor in Servcon to assist our people.

I am happy to announce that Anglo Gold, whose work is focused on such important issues as home ownership - I want to congratulate Avgold, who are there in the gallery - is assisting the Government. At the beginning of our second phase, let us work together towards nonracialism and one nation. May the selfless example and initiatives carried out by Avgold and the bondholders’ association serve to inspire all of us to spare no effort in the struggle to create a caring society with pride and dignity.

We should work in close partnership with all stakeholders, inspired by the call: ``There shall be houses, security and comfort for all’’. We should ensure that we draw on the genius and energy of the nation to give something that will surely be new, good and dignified.

Co-ordination of all social developments must be improved in accordance with the line functions of the social cluster. A fine example of this is the Mphatlalatsane project for the mentally disabled. This kind of project is proof of our commitment to improve the quality of life of all South Africans.

This kind of project is the beginning phase, and we will make multidisciplinary interventions of this kind, starting with a few pilot areas. We will draw in all spheres of Government and engage the people, as we always have, to ensure that the levels of homelessness and informal settlements are reduced. Measures must be taken to strengthen the capacity of local authorities to enable them to mobilise the communities against resorting to land invasions and illegal squatting. We must be vigilant and employ strategies to guard against corruption, for example, people abusing the housing data bank to get double subsidies.

It is in this context that we must commit ourselves to overcoming the problem of urban density and not leave it solely to the local authorities that often do not have the capacity to deal with it. The private sector’s involvement should be encouraged. This will show that each one of us wants to change the cycle of poverty of the homeless and create a quality lifestyle by pursuing a consistent programme of policies for the indigent at local level. It should not happen that any one of us feels alienated. Whatever the circumstances of our people, none should be driven to the level of despair which forces them to a peripheral existence at the fringe of the mainstream. We, as the Department of Housing, consider the work of restoring the pride, identity and ownership of our people as being vitally important.

The task of advancing the integration of communities of all citizens towards the success of a single nation calls on us to increase our efforts, both as Government and private sector, so that we approach the task ahead with all due seriousness and a sense of discipline. To recognise the fact that all rights are accompanied by obligations and responsibilities will require that all spheres of Government be defended by the freedom guaranteed in our Constitution. The good that has been done puts into very sharp relief everything that still has to be done to extricate another one million of our people from conditions of abject homelessness, racism, sexism and violation of human dignity from which too many still continue to suffer.

Ek wil net graag vir die Minister ‘n idee gee van wat Avgold tot dusver gedoen het. Op 5 Mei 2000 is 31 subsidies van die provinsiale regering ontvang om die huise aan die afgedankte mynwerkers te kan oordra. 0p 27 Oktober is 23 subsidies oorgedra. Op 20 November is 11 subsidies aan hulle toegewys. Dit wys net daar is genoeg huise, ons hoef nie te sukkel nie. Daar is genoeg geld as die rykes aan hierdie kant net hulle deel wil bydra! [Tussenwerpsels.] Hulle moet uit hulle kokonne breek en gaan kyk wat daar binne aan die gang is.

Ons sou nie slums gehad het soos ons nou hier in die Wes-Kaap het as hulle lankal gesorg het dat die mense ordentlike huise kry nie. Dit maak nie saak wat ons Regering vandag bou nie, die mense sê hulle het ten minste ‘n dak oor hulle kop, elektrisiteit, riool en al dié dinge, want daardie mense voel hulle hoort iewers en die huise behoort aan hulle.

Ons sukkel nog steeds om 100 jaar gelede se huise van die ou regering aan die gemeenskap oorgedra te kry! [Applous.] Ons sukkel nou nog om 30 jaar gelede se huise van die ou regering oorgedra te kry. Dit is wat hulle maak. Dit is hoekom hulle so baie mense uit huise sit wat hulle nie kan bekostig nie. Hulle weet nie wat dit is om te onderhandel nie. Hulle ken net die geweer en die polisievangwa’s, maar ek sê vir hulle, die wiel gaan teen hulle draai hier in die Wes-Kaap. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I would just like to give the Minister an idea of what Avgold has achieved thus far. On 5 May 2000, 31 subsidies were received from the provincial government to transfer the houses to the dismissed mine workers. On 27 October, 23 subsidies were transferred. On 20 November, 11 subsidies were allocated to them. This just shows that there are enough houses, we do not have to struggle. There is enough money if the rich people on this side would only contribute their share! [Interjections.] They should break out of their shells and go and look at what is taking place there.

We would not have had slums like we have here in the Western Cape if they had seen to it long ago that people got decent houses. It does not matter what our Government builds today, the people say that at least they have a roof over their heads, electricity, sewerage and all those things, because those people feel they belong somewhere and the houses belong to them.

We are still struggling to have houses built 100 years ago by the previous government transferred to the community! [Applause.] We are still struggling to transfer houses built 30 years ago by the former government. That is what they have done. That is why they evict so many people from houses they cannot afford. They do not know how to negotiate. They only know the gun and the police vans, but I am telling them, the wheel will turn against them here in the Western Cape. [Applause.]]

Dr R T RHODA: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, I have only a few minutes and would like to make a few points. [Interjections.]

The poor Western Cape! In the constituencies that I represent, namely Manenberg, Heideveld, Bokmakierie, Guguletu, Kewtown and other parts of Athlone where up to 30 people sleep in a single council flat, and where more than five large families are faced with the problem of squatting in backyards, some sleeping in disused pigeon lofts and kennels, not to mention the thousands who live in informal settlements, it is very difficult for me to stand here and be satisfied with this budget, especially the amount that was allocated to the Western Cape. The 8% is a drop in the ocean, and I feel that the Minister should have fought for much more money. I am sure that it must be a terrible disappointment to all in this House, and more specifically to those poor souls I have just mentioned, that several millions of this budget will have to be spent on the establishment of a special investigating unit within the Department of Housing to deal with the widespread corruption, fraud and theft.

We can only hang our heads in shame at this disgraceful state of affairs in our new democracy, where patriotism is being consumed by the fire of sheer greed for money at the expense of the powerless poor masses. One only hopes that it will not be necessary for such a special department policing unit to be established in all other portfolios, especially when we think of Defence and Water Affairs and Forestry, where there have also been allegations of large-scale fraud and corruption. What a sorry state of affairs!

We must find a better way of dissuading rural dwellers from trying to squeeze themselves into overcrowded cities. Perhaps a more concerted effort is needed to make the rural option a more natural, safe, attractive and comfortable option - more electrification, fresh water, schools, clinics, shopping and recreation centres, better roads and so on. The bright lights of the big city will always be a strong attraction, but rural dwellers must be made aware of the downside of trying to survive in overcrowded cities.

The director general has also bravely admitted that previous attempts to deal with the defined problems of housing in isolation from crime, for example, are counterproductive. Because all social and political problems are inextricably interwoven, economics affects health, health affects education, education affects housing, and so on. Active co-ordination … [Time expired.]

Miss M N BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, hon Minister of Housing and comrades, allow me to talk about a group of people who, for so many centuries, have been unfortunate. This is a group of people who suffered what the political scientists would refer to as triple oppression: oppression from society, from their husbands and from the apartheid government. I am talking about women.

For so many years, they were deemed unfit to own houses, run their businesses and be in charge of their own affairs. As I said, the above- mentioned terrible hardships women had to go through were as a result of deliberate policies by the apartheid government aimed at suppressing them. Meanwhile, it is irrefutable that this ANC-led Government has dramatically improved the status of women.

Allow me to focus my attention on the policies that the Department of Housing has embarked upon in addressing the plight of women. In line with the black economic empowerment policy, the Department of Housing has made it its business to create space for women contractors in the housing business world. About 10% of every approved subsidy scheme is given to women contractors to make their mark. It is as a result of these policies that we are seeing the vigorous emergence of women contractors all over the country.

We congratulate these emerging women contractors, because they have shown us that women can be as good, if not better, in the construction field. We are talking about groups like Golden Nest, Simunye Women’s Consortium, Kgomotso Construction - the list is endless. From 1994 to 2000, the Government was able to assist 516 000 female-headed households, which constituted 36% of beneficiaries. In the year 2001 alone we saw 58 000 female-headed households, constituting 41%. This is remarkable delivery, and we should give credit where it is due.

Not only do these figures help us to see the improvement, but they also mark the vast difference between the old and new orders. The difference is that the old order expertly recognised colour and gender, whereas the new order is both colour-blind and gender-blind. This is physical evidence of delivery that no antidelivery government like the DA can ever refute or challenge.

Allow me to talk about the one million houses we promised our people in

1. The pessimists on my left may have regarded this promise as a far- fetched dream, but sincerity, dedication and tireless efforts have once again proved the ANC to be a Government of its word. Up to March 2001, the total number of houses delivered nationally stands at 1,12 million. Hon members will recall that this figure was achieved against all odds. Happily for the first time in their lives, our people have shelter. What we can infer from the above is that this Government continues to have a caring attitude about the poorest of the poor.

In its housing manifesto the ANC promised to speed up change and delivery. The rate of housing delivery is approximately 200 000 units per year. May I state that the rate at which we deliver these units has not been challenged, even internationally. Allow me to illustrate this point. Singapore built only 55 000 units in five years, Cuba built only 85 000 units in five years, Sweden built only 250 000 in five years and South Africa built 750 000 in five years. [Applause.] In 10 years Sweden built only 1 million houses and in seven years South Africa built 1,12 million. To ask more than this, as these figures suggest, is rather unfair and unrealistic for a struggling country like South Africa.

Of course, the Government alone would never have done this without the help of dedicated women’s organisations, like the People’s Dialogue on land and shelter and the Homeless People’s Federation, which has built 15 000 houses nationally, 3 500 of them in KwaZulu-Natal. Those who cannot appreciate success will view this as slow delivery, but, considering that the houses they build are big, we surely cannot blame them for this.

It is ironic and surprising to find that organisations like those mentioned above, which deal with earners of extremely low incomes, such as R700, can build a 62m2 house at a cost of, literally, R13 000. Yet one finds that developers who are given the full subsidy produce only 21m2 houses, as is the case in the Western Cape. This deserves serious examination, for this Government cannot afford to be a financial ladder for unscrupulous developers.

What is even more interesting is that these women’s organisations have the ability to help those in the rural areas. For example, in KwaZulu-Natal they go as far as KwaMpumuza, eMpangeni and Mandeni. We have seen these women’s contributions at Inanda, Newlands West and Lindelani, transform informal settlements into beautiful townships.

Njengoba le Ndlu yemukela isichibiyelo soMthetho wezezindlu owabe uqeda amabhodi ezezindlu ezifundazwe, sikholwa ngukuthi oNgqongqoshe bezifunda bazokwazi ukusheshisa uhlelo lokwakha izindlu ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Siyafisa ukuthi amakhosi oselwa asebenzisane noMnyango wezeziNdlu ekutheni abantu basemakhaya bakwazi ukuthola izindlu abazifunayo,njengokwezifiso zabo. Kodwa-ke, lokho kuyokwenzeka ngokuthi nabo babambe iqhaza emizameni eyenziwa nguMnyango wezeziNdlu. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[As this House adopts the Housing Amendment Bill, which abolished provincial housing boards, we hope that the MECs will be able to speed up the programme of building houses in the rural areas. We want amakhosi to co- operate with the Department of Housing so that the rural people will be able to get the houses that they want and hope for. This will happen if they play a role in the efforts of the Department of Housing.]

Allow me also to talk about the upgrading of townships and hostels. The apartheid government made sure that our poor people lived in filthy and hardly ever bearable living conditions. It fills me with great joy to finally realise that at last we have a Government that cares and sees this for what it was, namely brutal treatment. It is as a result of humaneness in the ANC-led Government that we have a budget that recognises the need to have urban renewal settlements.

The projects are already operational countrywide. We have seen them in Gauteng, especially in Ruth First, Alexandra, Orange Farm and Soshanguve in Pretoria, and at KwaMashu in KwaZulu-Natal. As per the constitutional mandate, the portfolio committee has visited the Free State, Gauteng, the Northern Cape, and the Northern Province, and we were very pleased about the performance of provincial governments.

It was also interesting to see the attention the policies, like the social housing programme in Gauteng, receive. The programme has produced about 8 000 stands and 7 000 units. Over 160 000 people have received title deeds and are now the rightful owners of these houses they previously rented from the state. As a result of the hostel upgrading, over 80 000 people living in public-sector hostels have been upgraded in Gauteng alone. Nationally, the statistics indicate that there are 378 000 state-owned properties which were disposed of in terms of discount benefits. The sooner these properties are transferred the better the lives of our people will be.

In further demonstrating its caring attitude, this Government has launched a project that caters for disabled people. In the Free State and the Northern Cape the Department of Housing, together with the Departments of Health and Social Development, have had projects aimed at benefiting both young and old disabled people.

Lastly, as the ANC, let us sing our own praises about how far we have come, how much we have done and how much more we are willing to do in spite of all that we have experienced. [Applause.]

Mr D G MKONO: Mr Chairperson and hon members, the budget before us is pivotal in the upliftment of the poor and previously disadvantaged. It stands at the centre of the delivery of basic services. Without housing, water, sanitation and electricity are not achievable. Simply put, housing or the lack thereof directly impacts on Government’s ability to protect the most basic of rights articulated in the Constitution.

Appreciated within the above context, an overall budget of R3,7 billion appears mythical indeed. In fact, the department itself, in its strategic overview and key policy development summary, admits to the resource constraints. The department sets itself two primary key objectives: firstly, the progressive realisation of the right to housing, and secondly, ensuring sustainable human settlements, specifically shelter and privacy. These are admirable and noble key objectives.

However, the UDM would like to suggest a third objective to add to the list in line with our policy. Property and ownership should be seen as central to the upliftment of the poor since it can provide collateral, therefore ensuring millions of South Africans an opportunity to finally gain access to finance and the formal banking sector. Without this type of ownership, economic empowerment through enterprise development will remain something we talk about, but ultimately an unreachable goal.

We welcome the admission made by the department about resource constraints and changing demographics which necessitate a focus on quality rather than the former quantity-driven approach. This admission does cast a shadow over the claim, often made, of having provided over five million people with security of tenure and safe homes.

It has been repeated many times before by the UDM that a great many of the homes that have been provided in the past seven years cannot be described as adequate living spaces. The human settlement redevelopment programme as a new strategic approach to urban renewal is long overdue and we welcome it wholeheartedly.

Finally, Government has recognised the wisdom of UDM policy regarding integrated policy solutions. This programme, which aims to combine the efforts of the national, provincial and local governments, is definitely a step in the right direction. It is especially important that the alignment of budget and planning between all spheres of Government should be extended to all the activities of the department, and not just selected pilot projects.

The importance of housing to the daily lives and welfare of our citizens can never be underestimated. To illustrate this, a quick scan of the media over the past 24 hours reveals numerous housing-related stories across the country. Outside Durban home owners are blockading a road, demanding to speak to the local MEC regarding poor-quality housing. In Port Elizabeth the residents of Extension 6 were yesterday given two weeks by a court to evacuate their shacks or have them demolished. There alone, 900 people face a cold winter without even the negligible shelter of a shack. Here in Cape Town, on this very day, people have been evicted from their homes in Tafelsig by the local council for being in arrears with their rent.

This is the daily reality and struggle for housing that affects our people. We urge the Government and this department to do everything in their power to bring safe and proper housing to all the citizens of South Africa. The UDM supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr W M SKHOSANA: Chairperson, in South Africa, the current transition to democracy challenges both the people and the new democratically elected Government to address the legacies of racial discrimination, national domination and economic exploitation. South Africa’s recent history of struggle and mobilisation of people places a responsibility on all sectors, not only on Government, to find a way to address the needs of the most excluded people. It is a call that President Thabo Mbeki made in this House when addressing the nation.

The Government inherited a diversity of housing development laws which were based on apartheid ideology. This resulted in the lack of a overall focused housing development strategy and further resulted in fragmented, poorly focused and inequitable housing underdevelopment, caused by the structures and the system. Inequality has created an environment of poverty, violence, crime and uncertainty in villages.

Extensive consultation, negotiation and deliberations with many role- players in the housing sector, including the national department, provincial departments and local departments, resulted in the Housing Act, Act 107 of 1997, which abolished all apartheid housing legislation and replaced it with one single Act, which reflects the priorities of the current Government.

South Africa is poised on the brink of fundamental change. The present emphasis on good governance, with political parties and organisations of people reinforcing the need for transparency and accountability of public officials, creates participation at all levels of society.

It was with this in mind that the National Home Builders Registration Council was formed under the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Act of

1. The Act creates a national registration council with the power to regulate the home building industry efficiently, to promote housing consumer rights and to give housing consumer information.

We then went further and came up with the Rental Housing Act, which allows the Minister to introduce a rental subsidy, housing programme or other steps to make rental housing property accessible and affordable to low- income persons. It allows local authorities to establish a rental housing information office to advise tenants and landlords of their housing rights and duties.

The Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Act, which was passed by this Parliament in 1998, prohibits unlawful evictions and provides a procedure for the eviction of people from land. The law is enforced to ensure that all processes, either in rural or urban areas, are taken care of.

The Extension of Security of Tenure Act of 1997 provides security of tenure, protecting people from arbitrary eviction in rural areas and peri- urban land. The Act says that the landlord must obtain a court order before evicting occupants. Gone are the days of the Land Acts and Group Areas Act.

Home loan mortgage legislation, which also deals with the lending processes of financial institutions which provide home loans, is also being debated by this Government, and it is hoped that the financial institutions will support the Bill. It is the culture of the ANC to have a programme. The housing subsidy scheme that was introduced in 1995 gives the Minister the programme. People, as individuals, can obtain project-linked subsidies, consolidation subsidies and institutional subsidies. It is exactly the programme we need to ensure that we address the problem of housing in the country. Housing subsidies are available to people living in rural areas where there is communal land tenure and to people with informal land rights tenure, under this ANC Government.

Sikholwa ngukuthi uma singalokhu sixova udaka njengoba uNgqongqoshe eshilo, singasho ukuthi njengoba sesivele siqalile, sizofinyelela esigidini. [We believe that if we could continue mixing the mortar, as the Minister has just said, not to say start, as we have already started, we will reach the one million mark.]

We have dealt with the first million, and it is very unfortunate that the people on my left do not understand what the one million package comprises. It is not only about housing, it is about land, it is about a starter house, it is about sanitation, it is about electricity and it is about water. All those things were not available before. [Applause.]

It is also important for the hon Durand to ensure that he participates in all processes of housing. He was not there when we visited the provinces. We went to the Eastern Cape, and they were not there. We went to the Northern Cape, and the DP and the confused New NP were not there. [Applause.] We went to the Northern Province, and the representative of the confused alliance came for only one day, and we were there for five days. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

He himself could have heard, as we moved around, people who were affected by the flood. He could have seen that houses are being built right in the late chief minister Mphephu’s kraal. There were 36 houses built there. Women were rejoicing and saying that ever since they were in that place, under the regime of Mphephu and the NP they had never seen a house being built for a woman. They said that. [Applause.] It is unfortunate that they were not there to hear it with their own ears. We are on course.

Sixova udaka sishove ingolovane, futhi sizogcina sifikile ezigidini ezimbili. Izinkinga lezi esizenzelwe ngabalingani bethu ngapha kwesokunxele sizobhekana nazo. Ngala mazwi-ke ngithi ngiyabonga. We are mixing the mortar and we are also pushing the wheelbarrow, eventually we will reach the two million mark. We will face the problems that were created by our colleagues on the left. Those are my words. Thank you.]

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Ministers and members, the crippling effect of unemployment and poverty on the socioeconomic rights of our people is creating conditions in which Government’s constitutional responsibilities and delivery obligations are tested against its ability to govern.

A perfect example of the constitutional obligation upon Government is the recent Grootboom court judgment, in terms of which Government was held accountable to accede to the community’s right to housing. This is a right enshrined in our Constitution. In fact, the court ordered that the Government’s housing delivery programme be rewritten, and I quote, ``to provide relief for people who have no access to land, no roof over their heads, and who are living in intolerable conditions or crisis situations’’.

In terms of our constitutional integrity, this decision helped to strengthen the democratic process in this country. In terms of the rule of law, Government is obligated to govern efficiently and effectively. A primary focus of whether Government is meeting its delivery mandate to the people is on housing. The department has a housing backlog of over 3 million units, yet the longer the delays in eliminating this backlog, the greater the increase in the homeless population.

We accept that the housing backlog is not the creation of this Government. [Interjections.] However, the challenge of housing the nation is now a constitutional responsibility of national, provincial and local government. The problem of roll-overs or, perhaps more accurately, the inability of the department to efficiently spend its money, is of serious concern. Winter is upon us and the impact of the weather on poorer communities adds to the greater cost to the state. In fact, it is estimated that more than 7 million people in informal settlements live in unhealthy conditions.

Although Government is putting up rental housing schemes, the extent of the demand for housing is just too large, exacerbating the condition of people having to move continually. The impact of this resettlement of people eventually leads to more informal settlements and greater urban sprawl. The department must work on improving its procedural requirements and, if this can be done as soon as possible, the goal of providing people with adequate housing can be attained.

I commend the Minister of Housing and her department on the visible progress in delivery, but it remains a challenge to the Department of Housing to continue the good work, to give access to housing to persons who are less fortunate than ourselves. With these few words, the ACDP accepts and supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Chairperson, Comrade Minister, comrades and hon members, season by season the trees of delivery continue to bear much fruit. These trees are exceptional as they know no season; they bear fruit throughout the year. Equally exceptional is the amount of fruit which has been borne on these trees that are but a mere seven years old.

Each day in every city, town and village across our land new trees are planted. We, as the ANC, will continue to plant new trees until each and every person in our land has eaten sufficiently. These are the trees that bear the fruit of delivery. [Interjections.] He should listen. [Laughter.]

Having just had the privilege of attending the 25th special session of the United Nations General Assembly on an overall review and appraisal of the implementation of the Habitat Agenda, I have returned home feeling challenged, confident and proud; challenged because the entire world is facing hurdles that need to be crossed and negotiated. Currently, 25% of humanity lives without adequate shelter. The majority of the world’s people live in cities, and a rapid increase in urbanisation is expected, with most of it taking place in developing countries. This is caused mostly by past failures in rural development. In two thirds of the cities in the developing world, their waste water is not treated. In countries with economies in transition, 75% of solid waste is disposed of in open dumps. Three quarters of the more than 1,2 billion global poor live in rural areas. Tens of millions of urban families lack security of tenure. I wish to quote an extract from the speech of the executive director of Habitat, Miss Tibaijuka:

For shelter, along with food and clothing, are the most basic building blocks of any poverty alleviation strategy or policy. Something must have gone awfully wrong when we formulate strategies and adopt programme frameworks to fight poverty, without including shelter delivery as one key element. The poor everywhere have inadequate shelter. We cannot hope to improve the health of the poor without improving their housing, and turning slums and tenements into livable neighbourhoods. We cannot hope to educate children, to bring light into their lives, if there is no light in their homes.

Here in South Africa we, too, have challenges that we need to and that we will find solutions to overcome. Hon members must please note: We will. The challenges we face are the providing of adequate shelter for all our people, the eradication of informal settlements, inner city renewal, safer cities free from crime, and the increasing movement of people from rural areas to cities, amongst other things. These are as a result of the apartheid policies, the after-effects of which we are now facing and dealing with. When one looks at the challenges we face in comparison to the rest of the world, one then realises that although they seem big to us, they are, in fact, small in comparison to some challenges facing other countries.

A number of cities shared their experiences of how various levels of government and the private sector came together to find solutions at a local level. Critical to the success of projects which we undertake is the level of public participation. President Mbeki raised the issue of unity in action in his state of the nation address earlier this year.

We need to see communities come together at local level - residents, the private sector, NGOs and religious organisations - working together with the different spheres of Government, to focus on ensuring that together they, rebuild their communities, and that together they create a better life for all. I would call upon all citizens of our country to join us and work with us as we find and implement solutions to the challenges that we face. We have achieved much as this Government, but we still need to do more, and we will continue to do more.

We are confident because we are making progress in finding and implementing solutions to the challenges we face. To date, we have been able to provide security of tenure to over 5 million people through the building of houses, and we have also seen the transfer of over 300 000 houses to occupants. This is progress.

The city of Stockholm undertook major reinvestment in the inner city, which resulted in the movement of people back into the inner city. Here, in South Africa, the city of Johannesburg has embarked on rejuvenating the inner city. In a recent report in The Star newspaper, stories of people moving back to Johannesburg to live and work were told. This is progress. In China a major urban renewal programme took place through the Fu and Nan Rivers Project. It involved relocating an informal settlement of 100 000 people into newly constructed housing, the cleaning of rivers and the upgrading of infrastructure. In Alexandra, just a few day ago, President Mbeki launched the urban renewal program in South Africa, which will see Alexandra and other areas totally transformed. This is progress. In Brazil, rural development has seen people going back home. Here, in South Africa, the integrated rural sustainable development strategy will soon be launched. This is progress. Many countries spoke about the need to promote savings schemes. Here, in South Africa, savings schemes are being promoted, and the Ministry of Housing is developing a national savings initiative, the major aim of which will be to link savings, credit and the subsidy to allow potential beneficiaries to contribute and actively participate in their housing provision. This is progress.

The presentations made by South Africa were well received, and a number of countries indicated that they wished to visit South Africa to see and learn about our policies and products. [Applause.] In comparing our policies and programmes to those of other countries, it was clear that South Africa has made great strides in implementing the Habitat Agenda and, in many instances, is way ahead of other countries. [Interjections.] This is progress, I would like to say to Mr Ellis. [Applause.] A number of countries made reference to the South African experience and the remarkable achievements we have attained so far. This is progress. [Interjections.] What we have achieved here in South Africa in just seven short years has not been achieved anywhere else in the world in such a short space of time. The presentation made by the Minister of Housing at the opening plenary session did not come across as just another speech, it came across as a living and real experience.

Recently, while in the Northern Province, we visited an area called Makhado, just outside Thohoyandou. In order to get there, we had to travel up the side of a mountain. When we reached the top of the mountain, there, right at the top in the middle of nowhere, was a people’s housing process on the go. People were building their own homes. For me that is progress. That is what is happening in our country. This indicates that we have made great strides towards the creation of a better life for all.

Finally, I am proud to be a South African. I am proud to be alive during these historic times, hopefully being able to play some small part in the reconstruction, redevelopment and reshaping of our country. Unfortunately, I am not like Mr Durand, who is not even in the House now, which clearly shows that he does not care. [Interjections.]

Most important of all, I am proud to be a member of the ANC, a movement that is delivering on its promises on the creation of a better life for all. It is a movement that is committed to building our country and to ensuring that a better world is created for our future generations. We are on the right road and heading in the right direction. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Minister, the MF supports this Vote. Against a background of impoverishment of the black people by the former regime, the Government has done well to house the homeless.

This is in accordance with the Government’s policy to provide housing and secure accommodation, to reduce poverty and improve the quality of life of people. It is a constitutional right of every citizen to have access to adequate housing, and the state must take the necessary steps to realise this goal.

The MF welcomes the 1,7 million subsidies that were approved by the SA Housing Fund between April 1994 and December 2000. During the same period, 1,12 million housing units were built. Approximately 65 000 consolidated subsidies were approved for houses on serviced sites that had been approved by the previous administration.

The country must note that approximately R14,6 billion was spent on housing delivery between 1994 and 2001. Also about 33 000 beneficiaries of the former first-time homebuyers’ scheme will be supported until such time as this scheme has been completely phased out.

The MF supports the overall allocation for the Department of Housing for the current financial year, which has been increased from R3,439 billion to R3,718 billion this year. Of this allocation housing development consumes the largest part. It has been the policy of the Government to provide housing for the poorest of the poor.

Today the MF wishes to make an earnest appeal to the hon the Minister to take into consideration that the earning capacity of those who were most disadvantaged has been improved by a very small margin. Those in the middle- income group are not able to afford housing on their present income. This category requires a kick-start from the Government, which the Government is in fact giving.

The MF would like to make the following request: that the provision of housing for the middle-income group be accelerated, allowing the various provincial and local authorities to deviate from the national policy to cater for those who earn below the income limit and cannot afford housing on the open market, where prices are inflated because of the hated past. The MF also requests the Government and the provinces to ensure that the funds spent are used for quality housing and appeals to the Minister to monitor the contractors so that better quality and spacious houses are built and that space is allowed for extension for the home owners. The MF supports the Vote.

Mr A SINGH: Chairperson, Minister, the ANC and their junior partner the MF have proudly mentioned that 1,1 million houses have been delivered since

1. The Minister has failed to give us the number of houses that are collapsing while she is addressing Parliament. She should go to Alexandra.

The Minister blames the banks. In yesterday’s Business Day, she says:

SA banks had played a major role in contributing to the failure of Gateway, a home finance scheme in 1998.

Whilst that might be the case, what has the Minister done to stop such a collapse, because she has a facilitating role in her department to help those institutions that do not understand how we can deliver homes here in South Africa.

The general manager for transformation at the banking council said that the Gateway model had made it very expensive for banks to participate in the deal. She should not just criticise the banks, but needs rather to play a very important facilitating role in helping those institutions that do not have an understanding of how to deliver. We cannot just point fingers at these institutions. We need to be proactive for the sake of housing delivery. It should not just remain an election promise: housing for all; jobs, jobs, jobs.

We need to create an environment for housing delivery and create more jobs. The famous buzz word in the 1994 elections was ``empowerment’’. Clothing debts created a situation in which housing loans were thwarted. Are we really empowering our people? The poorer communities do not understand the value of the single most important asset, namely a home. The poor sell these houses for the paltry sum of R500, not understanding that this is the single most important asset that they might ever acquire. The poor purchase items to beautify these homes on HP and cannot pay this back. They are evicted from these homes and have to pay higher instalments and exorbitant rent to greedy landlords.

The DA says that the poor need to be educated to retain their shelter and their asset, and at the same time find better jobs. I was privileged to go on a tour in Warrenton, one of the developments in the Northern Cape. In Warrenton the developer was out of sight and the roofs were not fixed to the walls. Why can we not hold these contractors accountable? The poor occupants had to place bricks, stones and other heavy objects on the roofs to keep them from flying off. It is a criminal offence to allow developers to get away with these poor standards. Can we imagine a family, after many long years of suffering, getting a home and, after the first storm, the roof flies off, resulting in rain damaging their valuable belongings? Where are the clerks of works and building inspectors who are supposed to inspect these houses before handing them over to the occupants so that they can be safe for our people? In one home I could actually scratch the mortar with my bare fingernails. What are the inspectors doing? Are these jobs for pals or are they given 4x4s so that they can get further contracts so that the poor communities can once again suffer at the hands of this ANC Government? [Interjections.]

Housing delivery is very important and housing needs to be delivered by this Government because that is one of its election promises. Is the delivery of houses enriching developers at the expense of the larger poor community? Developers are profit-driven. We need to get rid of those developers in the industry who are fly-by-night and profit-driven contractors. Officials who contribute to underhand contracts, fraud and corruption in tendering procedures should be dismissed.

I was in Pietersburg. A private initiative to deliver houses has had difficulty getting off the ground because of bureaucracy. The developers are unable to build a single home as a show house because the ANC local and provincial government refused to allow them to build a starter house so that they could sell off their stands. The developers have tried communicating with the departments in those local government structures, but the communications have failed. Buildings belonging to the communities there are falling apart.

Another case in point is in Alexandra. A new township, built there less than two years ago, has started to collapse. The Minister needs to distribute some kind of standard to these contractors and they should adhere to it. The hard hat the Minister wore when she delivered her speech needs to be given to the people so that those houses do not fall on their heads. Residents in Alexandra are up in arms and are hoping that the Minister will go to Alexandra and see those cracks on the floors and on the walls. [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr J N NASH: Chairperson, one million homes achieved in just five years. This is what I want to highlight today. I want to thank the Minister for making this milestone possible. The ANC-led Government under the able guidance of our Minister has housed a million families within five years. [Applause.]

In August 1999, the Government had already built one million homes. This means that nearly five million people received decent shelter and accommodation. A milestone in our transformation has been achieved. Show me any other government in the world that can show such an achievement. Our detractors claim that these houses are small, but they are starter homes which allow for incremental development when the families have the necessary resources. However, these homes have given families a decent roof over their heads, which apartheid was unwilling to provide for the vast majority. [Applause.]

We all know that apartheid was geared towards providing houses for the minority, and those parties which criticise our policy use their past practice as the measuring gauge to subjectively judge the present housing policy. But they did nothing for the voteless majority when they were in power. The Group Areas Act was designed to ensure that the majority did not have access to property rights in urban centres. Notwithstanding this shameful history, the hon Durand has had the temerity to call these small houses, while his party is incapable of rebuilding homes for the victims of the tornado in the Western Cape. [Applause.]

There is a vast difference between the homes which the NP built and the homes that this Government is building. People are still in debt for those homes. What is shameful about this is that as recently as last month, the poorest of the poor were being punished by the DA for the arrears in rent and services. Requiring the poor to pay the arrears prior to benefiting from free services is certainly shameful. This is the thanks the poor get for voting for this DA. [Applause.]

The hon Durand asks what has happened to the promises. I want to inform him that the ANC-led Government has given the poorest of the poor a free home. Not only this, they have made them landowners. They are no longer landless subjects, but rather landowners - in other words, property owners. They have been transformed from landless wanderers in squatter camps into permanent citizens with a decent address in the land of their birth. These are the promises we have fulfilled, and one million homes on top of all of this. One million families are landowners. This what Minister Sankie has achieved. [Applause.]

To address poverty, the Government has introduced free water and free electricity. If members ask about the promises we made, then these are the promises we have fulfilled. Free water and electricity are going to be introduced all over this country. In the Western Cape they will be introduced only for those people who do not owe money. This is the way they choose to operate. The Government has provided sanitation and clinics in rural areas. For the poor, the Government has ensured that there will be no evictions without alternative accommodation. Those are the promises we have fulfilled.

Let me turn for a moment to the hon Tony Leon. He is so desperate to boost his ego and image that he is running all over the show in a futile attempt to achieve fame. The other day, he ran to the farms to try and win support for his unholy alliance. What he went to speak about was cottage industries, which is actually an ANC policy. In the process of attempting to speak on this subject, he missed the essential points altogether. He did not address the poor housing on the farms. Mr M J ELLIS: Tell us what they were!

Mr J H NASH: You are asking me and I am telling you. Nor did he address the dop system, which is the cause of abject poverty. He did not address the poor wages and working conditions of farmworkers. He did not address the evictions from the farms.

Our little man, struggling to reach a political climax, is incapable, so long as he misses the point about transformation and what that means! [Laughter.] When there were problems in Zimbabwe, he went running there. He did not speak to the elected government. He went to speak to someone else. When there was a gold crisis, he ran to Britain, and once again he could not help South Africa. [Laughter.] He went through the back door to speak to the French, and only God knows what happened there. [Laughter.] His trip to the USA was another controversial debacle. Poor Tony Leon, trying his best to be a great leader, but failing miserably! [Laughter.]

As for the other leader, Marthinus … I nearly said Comrade Marthinus. [Laughter.] He has been completely sidelined in this unholy alliance. [Laughter.] What did he do? He ran to Graaff-Reinet to haunt our heroes, notwithstanding the history of his party in his vote-catching exercise. The little boys Tony Leon and Marthinus van Schalkwyk are struggling to be leaders, but, in reality, they are a comedy of errors! [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The ANC, on the other hand, has one firm philosophy which can be summed up in the words of Archimedes:

Give me one firm spot on which to stand, and I will move the earth.

To our ladies up there, what are the women of the People’s Housing Process saying? They are saying:

We shall push the wheelbarrow We shall mix the mortar We shall build the houses We shall build a nation

And that in spite of the Democratic Alliance - in spite of all that. [Applause.] I hope that Mr Durand now knows what we have done with our promises. [Applause.] The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Mr Chairperson, hon members, I have been listening to the debate in the hope that I might pick up some advice and some contribution from people I expect to be part and parcel of changing this country, even if they are from the opposition. But I could not pick up anything new from what they said, which is unfortunate for this country.

Hon members will note that Mr Durand tried to give the impression that he had been part and parcel of the liberation struggle. He was not! Because, if he was, he would not be sitting on that side of the House. Knowing the history of members of this House, there is no way in which he can jump onto the bandwagon and appear to be patriotic when he is actually not patriotic. [Interjections.] Secondly, if he has any sense at all and remembers where we come from, he will know that there is a complete difference between the houses that were produced by the apartheid government and the houses that we are producing now. We are producing a complete package of shelter connected to water, sanitation and electricity and a better environment. [Applause.] We are providing our population with security of tenure, which is very important and critical for anybody in the world. And this Government, through the Department of Housing, has ensured that at least five million people enjoy secure tenure. This cannot be compared with what apartheid gave us.

The hon member from that side of the House chooses to forget and have amnesia, and wishes completely to ignore the fact that for 20 years in this country, the majority of our people were pushed from one part of the country to the other. Secondly, they were prohibited from moving into any area through the Group Areas Act. And to make sure that they were caged in townships, they were kept very far away from the towns. In order to make sure that they were caged in the townships, the kind of urban planning that was put into place made sure that if anything happened they would not be able to leave the townships. For example, in Gauteng one has only four entrances into the townships. That was part and parcel of the oppressive and aggressive system of apartheid.

Anybody who now comes up here and pretends not to know where this crime comes from needs to be reminded of the facts. If one denies people basic opportunities and amenities, one is bound to have problems of violence and crime. But this Government, led by the ANC, and supported by the IFP, is going to ensure that when it comes to houses and issues of urban planning, it is going to get rid of some of the problems that have taken us to where we are now.

I would like to remind the hon member that when one looks at our housing and wants to relate it to issues of poverty, one has to go back to our policy and understand what we are trying to achieve. We are providing an incremental approach for our beneficiaries because we have never claimed, as Government, that we are going to deliver on our own. We have said that we are going to meet our beneficiaries halfway. We are going to provide the capital housing subsidy, and we expect them to add value to our subsidy through their savings, to add sweat equity. At the end of the day they are going to come up with a house of a size which will be the best for their families. Those members should please go back to our policy before they make a noise.

Another issue about which we need to remind members of this House on my left is that the damage that the apartheid social system introduced into our country will take many many years to get rid of. One had an aggressive social system and aggressive institutions like the army, and it was ensured that the rest of the population in this country was dominated by an aggressive system. When they talk about crime, they should please remember what they did to this country.

Those who talk about the sizes of the houses should please remember that this issue is nothing new for us in this House. Already, as the Department of Housing, we have put into place an instrument, the National Home Builders Registration Council, which is going to ensure that we take care of the state’s resources and that the product that we leave on the ground is of good quality. That is why we have the registration council, and that is why we have people sitting in that office to try and ensure that we take care of the fly-by-night developers who do not want to give us value for money.

Hon members from the opposition side, especially Mr Durand, have also forgotten because they are not following up on issues. He is not even aware of what Government is doing. Flood management and disaster management are under the Department of Provincial and Local Government. [Interjections.] The Department of Provincial and Local Government and the Departments of Housing, Transport, Water Affairs and Forestry, Land Affairs and Agriculture sit in a committee that addresses this issue. I want to say to Mr Durand that issues of disaster had not been better managed until we came into office. [Interjections.] We have set aside a fund to deal with the floods, and also committees, including the command centre from the national level to liaise with the provinces to make sure that people who are victims of natural disasters are taken care of.

In the Department of Housing we have allocated 0,5% and 0,7% of the annual budgets for emergencies in housing. This is in line with the Constitution but is also a response to the Grootboom case. And we acted this fast because we wanted to indicate to him and the general public that this is a Government that cares about its people. Despite the meagre resources, and the damage that they have done to our economy we, still with the meagre resources, try to address the needs of our people.

Most villages in the Northern Province are located on dangerous ground within the 50-year or 100-year flood line. We have had to relocate people away from such flood plains. We had a similar case in KwaZulu-Natal. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs made sure that we benefited from her resources. We had to go and buy land that was away from the Mkhuze area, in order to make sure that our people were not visited by occurrences of flood lines.

In addition, 391 officials have been trained through our capacity-building programme in the Northern Province. We have managed to train about 2 697 officials at local government level countrywide and some of them are councillors. They are trained through tertiary institutions to deal with issues of housing and delivery, but also to make sure that they are informed around issues of disaster management.

With regard to comments made by Mr Singh of the DP, we have the registration council, whose function it is to take care of those joining us in the construction industry who do not adhere to the minimum standards and norms and do not respond adequately to the red-book requirements with regard to engineering guidelines. [Interjections.] When people give us subquality we invite them back to their own projects and ask them to repair the damage. If they do not respond they are then deregistered, because we are not going to tolerate bad workmanship.

It should also be remembered that it is the first time, in this country, that we have had an institution of this nature. We are also quite aware of the fact that there will be those who would like to take advantage of us. Secondly, it must also be remembered that we have set up a warranty fund to finance the repair of structural damage, whether it is leaking roofs, cracking walls or problems with foundations. We have made sure that we will have a fund in order to repair these damages. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: He does not know that.

The MINISTER: Obviously, he is not following what is happening. If one could just look across the country, one would notice that we have been able to contain the problem of unscrupulous developers, because people are afraid of being deregistered and thrown out of the construction industry.

It is not true that we are not doing anything about the issue of hostels. We have, through our budget, what is called the Hostel Redevelopment Programme. We have gone out to all the hostels across the country to improve the conditions there, and also to transform some of those hostels into proper family units. I think we have made great strides in that direction. We are also continuing to try and make sure that the hostels become secure places for women, children and other vulnerable groups in our society. We make sure that people who live in the hostels can actually communicate and be part of the communities close by.

However, I think I will not have done justice to the matter if I do not respond to what the hon member said about today’s article. Once more, they are not following issues. [Interjections.] Hon members will remember that there was what was called the Botshabelo Agreement that was signed in 1994, between the Government, the banks, the construction industry and civil society, where it was agreed that all the sectors that represent parts of society should commit themselves to normalising the environment in society. Because we inherited tensions between communities and the banks, between communities and the local authorities, and within structures that were not in agreement in terms of the political environment and the atmosphere at the time, we had to put in place an institution that would mitigate and make sure that we table the issues, and resolve most of the differences.

In that agreement, the banks committed themselves to providing 50 000 loans per year in order to get rid of the redlining. That is what they committed themselves to doing, which gives us a total of 150 000 loans that were supposed to have been awarded in three years. But, at the end of the three years, they had only managed 73 000 loans in the low income sector. This has since been reduced to less than 2% of what we are delivering on the ground, which means that they actually have not really delivered on their commitment. In 1997, 14% of all subsidised houses were credit-linked, and 86% were houses delivered through the Government subsidy. In 1999, it had gone down.

Government has approved 1,351 million subsidies, and 1,129 million houses have been built or are under construction. On the Government side, we have committed ourselves to establishing housing institutions that will liaise with the banking industry, and the communities so that we are able to fulfil our commitment. I have just given the House a report of what those housing institutions have been doing. We invested in excess of R1,5 billion and provided guarantees of R2,1 billion to the banks in order to address this issue.

I think that what we need to look at, as people who are forward-looking, are the conditions under which we are operating, and the problems that are confronting us. I am saying, in the article, that what is confronting this Government, our community, and the banks, is the issue of - now and then - some of the partners hesitating to move full-force into making sure that we achieve our objective. [Interjections.]

I have got a report here from the CEO of the National Housing Finance Corporation who works directly with the banks. In the report, the CEO says:

According to the agreement, when the Gateway Home Loans institution was put into place, it was planned that there would be an investment of about R500 million, because of the pilot project through Makhulong Home Loans, a project that was going to give us an opportunity to see how far we could go.

[Interjections.] I am reporting back to this Parliament that we did not get that investment of R500 million. But at the end of the pilot project, which was at the end of March this year, only R182,8 million had been invested. [Interjections.]

The issue that I am raising here is that we must accelerate the pace and make sure that when we commit ourselves to delivering on issues, we do just that. I think that, whenever there are problems, with due respect, we need to look at other options and ways of trying to make sure that we do resolve these problems.

In the article I say that we are not throwing away Gateway. We have just transferred it back to the National Housing Finance Corporation. We have to go back to the drawing board to find ways and means of making sure that we do address the issue of credit and finance to the low-income earner, because we cannot run away from the fact that our mandate is to address the needs of the poorest of the poor. If what I am saying does not make sense, then members should give me an alternative. But I think it does make sense.

I do not think that we are going to achieve anything in this House, if people who are elected, on both sides of the House, by an electorate which honestly believes that if it elects and votes for a person, that person will address its needs, defend issues they have absolutely no clue about. I would like to tell Dr Singh that I think that that is being very dishonest to the electorate. It is very dishonest. He does not have the background on Gateway, because if he did, I think his approach would have been different.

In February this year, our President, President Mbeki, announced the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy, which has been continuously managed by the Presidency in order to assist the different departments in Government to get on with the programme of delivery as a united and co-ordinated cluster force. We have already started implementing the programme, and Ministers have been deployed in different nodal points, where hon members will be liaising with the local leadership at district and local level in order to make sure that we do deliver on this Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy.

At the same time, regarding the issue raised by members seated to my left who say that our approach is not integrated, they need to be aware of the fact that our approach is co-ordinated and integrated. We are going to make sure that we get the maximum out of this co-ordinated approach.

Regarding the issue of corruption, we have invested an amount of R5,4 million in our 2001-02 budget, R5 million in our 2002-03 budget and R3,5 in our 2003-04 budget in order to begin to address the issues of corruption that hon members have been talking about. To us it is a very serious issue and we are going to make sure that we utilise resources in a manner that assists us to curb corruption and fraud from whoever and wherever it comes. We must ensure that the resources that are allocated by Government actually reach the poorest of the poor.

The Department of Housing and all other state departments have committed themselves to dealing with and eradicating corruption in our midst. All we need is a member from that part of the House trying to pretend that they initiated the issue of dealing with corruption. We have been dealing with it since the day we took office. So it is really not news.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Minister, whilst you are at the podium, I just need to clear up one thing. When you said that members must not be dishonest to the electorate, were you referring to a political failing or were you implying that in respect of personal integrity, the member was being dishonest?

The MINISTER: Chair, I was referring to the issue of transformation and the transmission of facts and information to the public, who have the right to be given the correct information so that they take correct decisions on whatever they do. Secondly, I think it is very unfair of the hon member to come up with an opinion and a view based on just one article. It is very incorrect. Thirdly, I operate from a public office which is open to members of the public, members of my party and the opposition, and anybody else who needs information, either to enlighten themselves or to prepare their speeches. They are welcome to come and get the information, so that, at least, when they stand at this podium, they project the true facts and correct views to the public about what we are doing in the country. [Applause.] I was referring to that issue.

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, on a point of order: At the end of the day, the hon the Minister is still saying that the hon member is dishonest, and that is unparliamentary. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I have tried to ascertain the thin divide between the political element and the one that goes to the question of a person’s own integrity. The understanding that I have - and you can correct me - is that it was in respect of a political failing and responsibility to the electorate. But I am willing to hear you further on this point.

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, the hon the Minister referred to an article. She asked the hon member not simply to refer to one article, but went on to say that he was being dishonest to the electorate. I would appeal to you to read the Hansard and study it carefully. Perhaps you could come back to this.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Yes, I think we will take that route. Thank you, Minister. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 32 - Transport:

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: I am trying to find my speech in this Metrorail bag, which contains lots of literature about transport that hon members can find in the foyer.

Chairperson, Deputy President, colleagues and hon members, I want to begin by expressing appreciation to the President, the Deputy President and my Cabinet colleagues for their leadership, comradeship and support; to the portfolio committee for advice and helpful criticism; to the MECs, some of whom are here today, responsible for transport and traffic safety; to Salga for its continuing support and co-operation; to the chairs, CEOs, boards, management and staff of our agencies and parastatals, representatives of which are here today - the Civil Aviation Authority, the SA Maritime Safety Authority, the National Roads Agency, the Cross-Border Road Transport Agency, the Airports Company, the Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company, the Road Accident Fund, the SA Rail Commuter Corporation, Intersite and the Regulating Committee - for sterling services in their respective areas of work; to our law enforcement agencies all over the country, which have played a valuable role in reducing road fatalities; to Spoornet, Metrorail, the road freight, bus and taxi industries, the trade unions and the many private-sector role-players for their contribution and co-operation; and, finally, to the director-general, my department and all officials, national and provincial, for their dedicated work and support.

It is due to the efforts of all these role-players that I am able today to put before the House a number of significant achievements in the transport sector. I am glad to be able to do so, because it is important that we register successes in the face of the many challenges confronting us. I am conscious that much more needs to be done, but I also think it is important that I outline some of our major achievements.

There have been spectacular improvements at Johannesburg International Airport and Cape Town International Airport. Durban International Airport is nearing completion, as are a number of smaller airports. The issue of King Shaka Airport is also being addressed.

Cape Town International and Johannesburg International have received world recognition. We have taken decisive initiatives to promote representivity. The results are now clearly to be seen in the staffing of the department and the agencies. Both Cape Town International Airport and Johannesburg International Airport now have their first ever black managers. Black men and women form the majority on a number of our agencies’ boards of directors. The Rail Commuter Corporation has its first ever black chairperson and its first ever black CEO. They are also here with us today. [Applause.]

A tender to the value of nearly R400 million has been awarded for upgrading rolling stock and signalling equipment. A total of 176 Metrorail coaches are to be upgraded to come on line from July 2001 to the end of 2002, and there are currently 15 projects under way to upgrade signalling systems at various places. Under the Department of Public Enterprises 200 locomotives are to be upgraded, 35 of which will be delivered this year.

Johannesburg’s Park Station has seen a major upgrade and is receiving further attention. Across South Africa, as at this year, 72 other station upgrades have been completed at a cost of R532 million. A further 14 upgrade projects are currently in progress at a cost of R142 million. In addition, there are now 73 modal interchanges in operation nationwide.

The national road network has been transformed; witness the Maputo Corridor, the Lubombo Road, the N3 and the Kei Cuttings. All have significant participation by small black companies, using local labour with the provision of proper training.

There has been real and tangible progress in the transformation of the minibus taxi industry. There has been a significant reduction in road collisions and fatalities. Law enforcement is much improved, but there is still a long way to go. The Road Accident Fund has a new board and the appointment of the CEO is currently being finalised.

There has been an improved focus on safety in the air and at sea. I can indicate that our Civil Aviation Authority is the first authority in Africa and the third in the world to achieve the ISO 9001 accreditation. [Applause.] It is a great achievement.

Together with members of the portfolio committee and others, MECs and officials, we visited a number of stations and experienced, first hand, some of the problems our commuters experience on trains and minibus taxis. This has helped us to plan and strategise with greater insight into the complex problems involved in creating a safe, responsive and integrated transport system in our country.

I am also heartened by a noticeable shift of attitude, both in Government and in the general public, towards a fuller recognition of the critical role played by transport in our economy and social life. I welcome this, because for me it is clear that transport must be seen as a fundamental issue involving quality of life. Our collective progress in making it safe and responsive is a measure of where we are as a nation and as individuals.

We inherited massive poverty and grotesque spacial distortions from apartheid. The result has been a catastrophe. The poorer one is, the greater the distance one has to travel. The further one is from work and social amenities, the more socially excluded one is. The more excluded one is, the poorer and more powerless one becomes. That is why I say every positive transformation in the transport system directly touches the quality of life of our people.

In his state of the nation address the President identified a number of transport-related objectives. We have begun to address them. The first is the transformation of our ports. Ports are important because 90% of our international trade is conducted through maritime transport. Over the past year significant upgrading has been going on under the aegis of Portnet. Richards Bay is flourishing, Durban is due for a massive upgrade, there is Saldanha and, of course, the Coega development project is taking off.

To facilitate greater efficiency and productivity, Government resolved to separate the landlord function of Portnet from operations. The landlord function will reside in a special entity. The private sector will become more involved in operations through the process of competitive tendering. For our part, as Government we are also finalising a comprehensive commercial ports policy so that all these methods are properly streamlined.

The President also spoke about a better balance between road and rail. He said there should be a shift from road to rail in respect of both freight and passenger transport. This will be an incremental process, beginning with actions to level the playing field, making rail transport more attractive while imposing and enforcing strict controls on road transport - not unreasonable controls, but strict ones.

This means dealing punitively, where necessary, with freight and public passenger vehicle overloading. It will require supporting actions to co- ordinate overload control strategies and harmonise maximum axle weight and gross vehicle mass limits within SADC. It does not mean that we are downgrading the importance of road transport. We know it plays a vital economic and social role in our country and that many aspects of the services it offers can never be replaced by rail. But we want a rational debate that puts the interests of the nation, the economy, the road infrastructure and the passenger before any sectoral interest. The bottom line must be reduced costs to consumers, improved speed, efficiency and security.

With regard to roads, over the past few years significant investment has gone into the Maputo Development Corridor, the N3 road project, the N4 Platinum Highway and the Lubombo Road. All the investment for these concession projects, a massive R8,8 billion, has been sourced from the private sector, working on the built, operate and transfer (BOT) principle and the introduction of tolling. This has also contributed indirectly to national development by freeing resources for allocation elsewhere.

We can therefore make a strong case for additional fiscal support for nontolling infrastructure investment on the basis of resources already saved. Indeed, Cabinet has already asked me to take the lead in producing a road development plan for South Africa. I will shortly be calling role- players together to start work on this with a view to presenting a new roads blueprint to Cabinet as soon as possible.

What is less well known are the all-round gains to the economy and our people that have flowed and are continuing to flow from these concession projects. To spell these out, 1 300 km of road are being upgraded, rehabilitated and maintained by these funds and 6 860 direct jobs have been created with salaries amounting to R321 million.

Approximately 17 000 people have been trained in skills varying from basic life and business skills to relatively complex construction skills. The total value is R12,6 million. Some 530 SMMEs have been developed. Contracts to a total value of R207,7 million have been awarded for design and construction work. An amount of R13,4 million has been awarded for operation and maintenance contracts.

At the top end of the empowerment scale three very large contracts have been awarded. One, for seven sections of road construction valued at R31,6 million has gone to Vulakabusha joint venture, while another, for bulk diesel and bitumen supply has gone to the empowerment group Tepco at a value of R16,1 million. The largest of the three, however, is the R38,6 million contract for the building of the Maputo and the Moamba toll plazas, the Nelspruit maintenance centre and the Trac offices in Nelspruit. The contractor GMF is a joint venture between two SMMEs, one South African and the other Mozambican.

On nonconcession projects, not only on national but also on provincial roads where assistance has been requested by MECs, similar major employment and training successes have been registered. A total of 6 400 jobs have been created at a salary value of R86,2 million. SMME contracts have been awarded to the value of R101,5 million in design and construction, and to the value of R19,6 million in operations and maintenance. As many as 31 contracts to the value of R135,8 million have been awarded for rehabilitation, improvement and new facilities, and 6 000 people have been trained at a cost of R3,6 million.

As members can see, the SA National Roads Agency has been strikingly successful in using concession contracts and joint ventures as a platform for black economic empowerment. The consistent aims are to ensure that the affirmable business enterprises are drawn in, that equity and contract management roles are given to previously disadvantaged and historically disadvantaged individuals, and that women, particularly the poorest rural women, are involved in labour-based construction and maintenance work and life skills training.

In this context I want to pay tribute to the KwaZulu-Natal department of transport’s ongoing household-based Zibambele project. This is a rural poverty relief scheme that has allocated some R200 million for access road maintenance to some of the most destitute households in the deep rural areas of the province, mainly headed by women.

An HON MEMBER: Viva Sbu!

The MINISTER: Comrade Sbu is present in the House this afternoon. [Applause.]

This brings me to the second major transport emphasis in the state of the nation address, viz accelerated provision of road infrastructure and integrated transport services in the context of Government’s integrated rural development and urban renewal programmes. On the rural dimension, infrastructure issues are linked to issues of transport service provision.

My department has already taken significant steps to address key issues of access and mobility experienced by our rural communities. It has completed an in-depth analysis of the areas of Lusikisiki in the Oliver Tambo region of the Eastern Cape, Nongoma in KwaZulu-Natal and Bushbuckridge in the Northern Province. As a result of the analysis, a CD-ROM has been prepared to guide planners in the provincial and local spheres of government. The CD contains a rich body of case-study material together with practical guides to carry out co-ordinated nodal and linkage development, and designing transport modes and systems, specifically aimed at supporting rural development interventions.

In the meantime, practical poverty alleviation programmes have been going ahead. In the 1999-2000 financial year we allocated R100 million for the Eastern Cape and the Northern Province, and 55 roads agency engineering projects, which mainly focused on regravelling rural roads, building drainage systems and carrying out minor bridge works, were completed.

An amount of R50 million was invested in the Northern Province, and that has resulted in the upgrading of 233,3 km of gravel roads and the completion of 104 drainage structures. Over a period of 24 months, 5 193 jobs were created, with 1 543 women participating in the various projects. An amount of R50 million invested in the Eastern Cape was used to upgrade 634 km of gravel roads and to construct six new bridges. A total of 4 138 people were employed, including 1 802 women.

For the year 2001-02, a further R94 million has been allocated. The funds have been divided between national and provincial governments and projects will be carried out in the Western Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, the Free State and the Northern Province. The national projects will focus on roadside facilities to accommodate pedestrians, nonmotorised vehicles and long- distance travellers. Infrastructure such as off-ramps for taxis and bus bays, pedestrian crossings, passenger shelters and safe trading facilities are planned. Many of these are nonexistent in many of the rural areas. These will boost economic activity and promote safety and comfort. Provincial projects will continue to focus on upgrading rural access roads and minor bridge construction.

I want to turn to our national bicycle programme. A national bicycle transport initiative, known as Shova Lula [Ride Easy], has been initiated. The programme is, in the first instance, targeted at primary and secondary school students and will later focus on the thousands of urban and rural workers who currently have to walk long distances to get to work.

There is an exemplary joint initiative between national, provincial and local government, and an NGO, Afribike, supported by partners in the US, the UK and the Netherlands. Together they have been able to procure low- cost new and used bicycles and have developed delivery chains that include a container-based shop, a cycle repair training course and light engineering modifications to produce load-carrying work cycles. They are also running a scholar programme and a women’s training programme.

The extension of bicycle transport, in both rural and urban areas, is not just a matter of facilitating access to bikes and creating jobs. The safety aspect of cycle use is now a key element in urban renewal planning processes, as we saw just the other day, when the President launched the R1,3 billion renewal programme for Alexandra. The provision of safe and convenient cycle tracks alongside every upgraded street or road is a major component of the Alexandra infrastructure upgrade. The pattern has been set and the next proposed step is to develop similar bicycle programmes in all of the 13 identified rural development nodes. There is also the question of rail. The Khayelitsha area of Cape Town will benefit, in due course, from the first railway extension project in the area for many years. My department has allocated an amount of R20 million to extend the existing railway line by 4,1 km from the present terminus to the new terminus to be built near Baden Powell Drive. We are hoping that provincial and local governments will contribute equal amounts. I am sure that they are willing to do so, and we hope that that the money will be forthcoming as soon as their funds make it possible.

In all the intermodal developments that I have mentioned - I have indicated that there are more than 70 of them - a direct interface has been created between Metrorail, bus and taxi services, and space has been opened up for a vibrant, well-regulated onsite training sector. I want to congratulate Metrorail and Intersite on the important contribution they are making to an urban commuting experience that is more efficient, more integrated, more user-friendly, and safer. Much, of course, still needs to be done. I also want to congratulate Spoornet on the launch of the new corporate image of its mainline service, now called Shosholoza Meyl, and for the attention to comfort, efficiency and service quality that underpins that new image.

I have spoken often about the transformation of the minibus taxi processes, so let me simply say that the legalisation, democratisation and formalisation processes that have been inching forward for so long are now close to completion. The formal registration of all taxi associations, operators, drivers and vehicles on provincial databases will be finalised as soon as the Be Legal campaign terminates. Each of the nine provinces now has a democratically elected taxi council in place. All the existing umbrella bodies, such as Satacco and MTA, and all the elected councils have been drawn together in a national conference preparatory committee, tasked with charting the process towards a single unified taxi body for the whole of our country.

I am aware of the violence that erupts now and again, and one expresses condolences to all those who have lost families and loved ones as a result thereof. We regard these taxi processes as one of our priority matters. We hope that a national conference will be held before the end of the year to adopt a constitution and hold elections for the first truly democratic and representative leadership the industry has ever known.

In the meanwhile, the recapitalisation project that, over a period of time, will cost over R4 billion is moving steadily ahead. The six short-listed bidders are at work refining the raw prototype vehicles they displayed earlier this year, and a separate tender is out for a vehicle electronic management system, EMS. All short-listed bidders will be given an opportunity later this year to submit their best and final offer, incorporating the revised EMS technology specifications. In addition, all vehicles will be subjected to an SABS homologation process and to severe road testing by Gerotek as part of the evaluation process.

I turn to a big problem, and that is the impact of the historical underfunding of transport infrastructure in general. The most critical impact has been felt in the rail network. Here we have seen a steep decline in the reliability of the ageing rolling stock fleet and the emergence of serious safety issues, resulting from the poor condition and technical obsolescence of current signalling systems. Resources allocated have been insufficient, either to address these safety issues or to effectively control widespread fare evasion and criminal activity at stations. The irony of this situation is that apart from being the most environmentally friendly mode of motorised public transport, rail is intrinsically much safer than road transport.

Let me turn to roads. We see that we have been living off our assets for the past 10 to 15 years and are now facing very significant costs to maintain the deteriorated network and restore the roads to a reasonable standard. Despite the sterling efforts of the SA National Roads Agency Limited, Sanral, to which I have referred, South Africa’s national, provincial and local road network is deteriorating at an alarming rate, with potentially very serious consequences for both economic development and safety.

It is true that over the past year or two we have taken some significant steps, but more steps will have to be taken to reverse the decline in the quality of our road transport. And so we are seeking to do three things at the same time: Firstly, to seek, creatively, to expand the resources available to both rail and road infrastructure investment; secondly, to attack overloading head-on; and thirdly, to ensure that the road freight sector internalises at least some of the damage which it causes, so that we create a more equitable environment for competition between road and rail.

I am currently putting together a high-level team of officials from my department, working closely with Sanral, the provincial government and specialists from the CSIR. Their brief is to urgently reformulate the national overload control strategy, with a special focus on the overall funding strategy, the optimal use of existing traffic control centres, a systematic operational strategy to implement interprovincial and cross- border enforcement actions, the intensified deployment of new weigh-in- motion technologies and an investigation into the possibility of securing their evidential viability in court, and the expanded use of public-private partnerships to manage and maintain strategic traffic control centres and to install and operate weigh-in-motion sensor systems.

In terms of our air services, again a theme in the President’s speech, we are pushing ahead with the opening up of our air services between our country, region and continent and the rest of the world. The aims are to drive up service quality and reduce fares through effective choice, to make air services available wherever required and to support tourism. We are speeding up the process of implementing the Yamoussoukro Declaration on Open Skies for Africa. We are reviewing and, where necessary, renegotiating our existing range of bilateral air service agreements. Specifically with regard to the Cape Town-London and Johannesburg-London routes, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic and the UK government are satisfied with the current arrangements for scheduled flights. There are also no limitations whatsoever on charter flights.

Our capacity to handle increased traffic volumes is continuing to improve. Air Traffic and Navigation Services (ATNS) has nearly completed a significant infrastructure upgrade in our country to enhance air traffic service delivery to air space users. This has resulted in significant fuel savings of up to R20 million for the industry. The projects will be completed over the next two years and will result in further efficiency enhancement. With regard to transformation and capacity-building, I am pleased to record that ATNS has made excellent progress in the training of air traffic controllers from historically disadvantaged groups over the past three years. Eighty per cent of new recruits are currently being drawn from these groups.

Then there is the whole issue of safety. We have prepared legislation to put into place a rail safety regulator. We are setting up a judicial commission of inquiry to look at the accidents which have occurred and to make recommendations. And we are taking steps to improve signalling infrastructure and training, and to address hours of work so as to ensure that we improve rail safety.

There is also the question of shipping, where we are focusing specifically on fisher folk, upgrading our search and rescue operations, and enforcing vessel safety standards. There is much that one can say about these matters; time, of course, does not permit. In terms of our general civil aviation safety, our record remains good. As I have indicated, the accreditation which our authority has received has only been equalled by two other countries in the world, and by no other country in Africa.

The most important problem to which we need to give a great deal of priority attention is the question of road safety. It is here that we have achieved a degree of success over the past couple of years. We do not want that to go to our heads. We think that more needs to be done. So, over the next period, we will see more action being taken to improve the situation. I have no doubt that the improvement that we have seen will continue. More than that, we are taking some more fundamental actions and we hope very shortly to launch South Africa’s comprehensive new road safety strategy, which we have called the Road to Safety.

We have gone some way towards addressing some of the transport problems of our country, but there is much more that needs to be done. With the co- operation of all the role-players who have come here today and those who are not here. I am confident that over the next few years we will be turning the situation around and making transport an industry that is respected in our country, not only by the industry itself but by those who most need it, the poor people of our country. [Applause.]

Dr W A ODENDAAL: Chairperson, the DA can never support this Vote.

An HON MEMBER: Why?

Dr W A ODENDAAL: Because, Chairperson, the wheels of the Transport Minister are coming off badly. The Minister’s reply to the questions last Wednesday was, to say the least, disappointing. One only needs to analyse his reply to questions in Parliament.

The Department of Transport has set about transforming South Africa's road network.'' That is what the Minister says.Today it is equal to the best in the world.’’ Who on Earth would believe this? The truth is that the Automobile Association calculates that poor roads in South Africa shot up from 5% in 1990 to 33% today. Does he call this the best in the world?

The SA Bitumen Association warns that urgent spending of at least R7 billion on the maintenance of South Africa’s national and provincial roads should be undertaken to prevent the further deterioration of the infrastructure to the point of no return. Does he call this the best in the world? The problem is so huge that Government may now be held legally responsible for the damage caused in up to 140 000 roads accidents annually. Is this the best in the world?

The backlog in the maintenance of South Africa’s railroad system has been allowed to rise to R25 billion. The Government is spending only R350 million per annum on railroad maintenance. The hon Mr Nash should just go and have a look at the budget. That amount is only half of what it costs to buy a luxurious jet aeroplane for the President, and hopelessly too little to maintain the road system. Metrorail reports that at this tempo of funding, in 50 years’ time there will be no rail system left. Is that the best in the world?

The taxi industry has been allowed to build up a maintenance backlog of R20 billion and the recapitalisation programme does not get off the ground. Thousands of taxi commuters die annually because of dilapidated taxis and the ANC Government’s inability to get the taxi rehabitalisation programme going. Can this evidence ever support the nonsense the Minister wants us to believe?

Experts in the field of transport economy all agree that the development of a transport infrastructure is closely linked to growth in the GDP and that a well-developed and well-maintained transport system serves as the essential lubricant for a well-run and positive developing economy. Social goals like poverty relief and the creation of wealth cannot be achieved without an acceptable transport system. Why, then, does the Government so sadly neglect, without any exception, all modes of South Africa’s transport system?

The main problem is that the Minister of Transport and his Government perceive transport as an engineering nuisance. He cannot recognise it as the essential socioeconomic tool to achieve the liberation of the economy, with resulting economic growth, job creation and the narrowing of the income gap. The Minister’s reply to the questions put to him last Wednesday confirms that point.

The Green and White Papers on transport are actually both not policy documents. The laudable goals failed because the policy was meant to support the aims of the RDP, which never took off. The Director-General of the Department of Transport was actually irritated when he informed the portfolio committee on transport, while explaining the budget proposals, that there is no policy on the subsidisation of public transport. His department is therefore in no position to apply transport as an economic enabler. What a revelation! The second major problem is that Government does not have the ability to deploy the existing financial resources more effectively so as to meet the country’s social demands, whilst sufficient savings can be achieved at the same time to fund the much-needed maintenance of South Africa’s transport infrastructure.

Wat is die oplossing vir die probleme wat geïdentifiseer is? Dit lyk vir my ons soek dringend na ‘n ander Minister van Vervoer, wat die rol van vervoer in die volkshuishouding verstaan en ook nog lus het om sy moue op te rol en iets te laat gebeur.

[What is the solution to the problems that have been identified? It would seem to me that we are urgently looking for another Minister of Transport, who understands the role of transport in the national economy and also feels like rolling up his sleeves to make something happen.]

Nothing is happening. The Minister is promising us, but he is not delivering.

Suid-Afrika kort ‘n onmiddellike, omvattende, geïntegreerde vervoerbeleid waarin die staat se verantwoordelikheid en prioriteite duidelik uitgespel word vir die daarstelling van ‘n goeie vervoerstelsel wat, soos ‘n goeie gesondheid- en onderwysstelsel, aan die sosioekonomiese behoeftes van die land sal voldoen.

Private inisiatief moet binne ‘n duidelike vervoerplan met ingeboude regulatoriese verantwoordelikheid vir die staat aangespoor word om ‘n optimale vervoerstelsel tot stand te laat kom en in stand te hou. ‘n Duidelike subsidiebeleid vir openbare vervoer moet ontwikkel word, waarin die staat die verantwoordelikheid neem vir die bedryf, sowel as die instandhouding, van onlonende maar noodsaaklike openbare vervoerdienste.

Die regering skram hiervan weg. Dit is nie nodig vir die huidige geslag Suid-Afrikaners om die verantwoordelikheid vir die totale finansieringslas te dra nie. Langtermynfinansiering, soos die uitreiking van staatseffekte, sal ingestel moet word om in die onderhoudsbehoeftes te help voldoen, terwyl direkte verbruiksheffings, soos tolgelde en brandstofheffings, die uitgawe aan onlonende dienste moet help subsideer. Die DA dring daarop aan dat die ANC-regering dadelik sy verskuilde agendas, soos die selfverryking van die bevoorregte klein elite in sy binnekring, moet laat vaar om die belange van Suid-Afrika se pendelaars ‘n slag voorop te stel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[South Africa lacks an immediate, extensive, integrated transport policy in which the state’s responsibility and priorities are clearly spelt out as regards the establishment of a good transport system which, like a good health and education system, will meet the socioeconomic needs of the country.

Private initiative should be encouraged within a clear transport plan, with built-in regulatory responsibility for the state, in order to establish and maintain an optimal transport system. A clear subsidy policy for public transport should be developed in which the state takes responsibility for the management, as well as the maintenance, of unremunerative but essential public transport services.

The Government is shying away from this. It is unnecessary for the current generation of South Africans to have to shoulder the responsibility for the total financial burden. Long-term financing, such as the issuing of government stock, will have to be implemented in order to help meet the maintenance needs, while direct user levies, such as toll fees and fuel levies, must help to subsidise the expenditure on unremunerative services.

The DA insists that the ANC must immediately abandon its hidden agendas, such as the self-enrichment of the privileged small elite in its inner circles, in order to place the interests of South Africa’s commuters first for a change.]

Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, Deputy President, Minister, over 90% of this budget that we have in front of us, as with previous budgets in recent years, is allocated for transfer payments. The Department of Transport will not directly spend the majority of its own budget itself. Most of the Department of Transport’s work is done at arm’s length, through agencies, parastatals and other spheres of government both local and provincial.

This might create the impression, for those of dull perception, that there is no coherent or active transport policy, exactly the impression that Dr Odendaal has tried to foster now. I am pleased, therefore, that the Minister devoted a great deal of his speech to giving us just some brief overview of the many things that are happening on the transport front.

He mentioned, for instance, the upgrading of something like 72 railway stations by Intersite, working with Metrorail and the SA Rail Commuter Corporation. Many of those railway stations are in townships. There is also the renovation of three international airports carried out by ACSA; the transformation of the national road network, with the Maputo Corridor, the Lubombo Highway and the Kei Cuttings; innovative community-based road maintenance in KwaZulu-Natal, in the form of the Zimbambele project; the Shova Lula bike project; and taxi legalisation, formalisation and democratisation - a very complicated task achieved extremely well by the Department of Transport. There is also massive investment in port restructuring and the commencement of a whole new port in the shape of the Coega development. Tese are only a few of the projects.

There are both mega, hi-tech projects and innovative, grass-roots, South African developmental projects under way. We might also add that transport, including therefore private-sector transport, is one of the few sectors of the economy that has shown consistent growth and job creation over the last period. Contrary to what Dr Odendaal is saying, there is a buzz of activity going on in transport. How does it all fit into a bigger picture?

In his state of the nation address at the opening of Parliament this year, President Thabo Mbeki spoke of a shift of emphasis away from the macro economy to the micro or real economy. He spoke at some length of the need to lower input costs throughout the economy, without attacking workers’ wages. Surely effective, efficient, reliable and well-resourced transport is critical for this vision? Linked to these themes, President Mbeki also dealt at some length with concrete programmes and key nodal points for urban renewal and integrated rural development. Again, transport and transport infrastructure are critical for this renewal and for this development.

Transport is a basic need. It is like water, it is like shelter, and it is connected to those other needs. The word ``integrated’’ is especially important in, for example, integrated rural development. In the past few years major developmental efforts - housing projects, the construction of schools and clinics - have sometimes been limited in their social impact because of insufficient integration between them. Once again, transport and transport infrastructure are often the key, if sometimes absent, integrating factors.

Backing up the President’s shift from a macro to a micro emphasis in the real economy is the MTEF announced by the Minister of Finance, Comrade Trevor Manuel, which allocates R7 billion over the next three years to infrastructure. We regret to say that not all of that infrastructure is transport infrastructure, but we hope that a substantial amount of that R7 billion will go into infrastructure for transport. In general, this emphasis on infrastructural spending is to be greatly welcomed. It is very much in line with the RDP vision of linking growth and development.

One of the potential limitations affecting the Department of Transport in its attempt to drive a coherent transport policy lies in some of the institutional realities that we have inherited in this new government. The key transport parastatal, fundamentally Transnet, with its cluster of transport-related corporations, falls under Public Enterprises. I do not want to launch a turf battle, and indeed there is a good and healthy working relationship between the Department of Transport and the Department of Public Enterprises.

The clustering of Ministries that has been happening over the last period has also helped to achieve strategic coherence. However, there is a danger in this institutional arrangement in which Transnet falls under the Department of Public Enterprises. The danger is that a range of very different parastatals, some with little strategic value to growth and development and others absolutely integral to those objectives, will all be submitted to a generic one-size-fits-all restructuring.

When we as a committee met, often jointly with the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, with Transnet and its family of corporations such as Portnet, Spoornet and Metrorail, most members, including members seated to my left, were extremely impressed with the quality and seriousness of senior managers, many of whom are sitting here today. However, we have also been struck by several sometimes incompatible, perhaps, strategic objectives that these managers believe that Government expects them to pursue.

On the one hand there is an expectation that ring-fenced corporations will return profits, perhaps or perhaps not in order to prepare them for privatisation. These are at least two objectives. A third objective is that they should at least provide an efficient economic infrastructure, whether this is profitable or not. Then they are expected to provide social services and address the issue of black economic empowerment and, sixthly, that of job creation.

In the best of all worlds these may well be six congruent and converging objectives, but, in reality, they might not be. The one objective might sometimes frustrate the realisation of another. What applies in one parastatal, say Metrorail, may not apply at all in another, say Portnet. We need to guard against the idea that there is a generic one-size-fits-all exercise called ``restructuring’’ and all that it requires is some manager supremo, hired gun or turnaround guru - without referring to any particular individual.

I was very pleased to note that the Minister has reported on some of the efforts that he has carried out by way of investigating in detail transport needs and challenges in places such as Bushbuckridge, Lusikisiki in the Eastern Cape and Nongoma in KwaZulu-Natal. As a result of this work, the Minister has also produced a CD-ROM to help empower and facilitate provincial and local level decision-making and planning. It seems to me that this is an important direction that the department in general must pursue in the coming years.

Much of the legislation that we have passed here in Parliament, not least the National Land Transport Transition Act, critically depends on capacity at provincial and local government level. For instance, we are calling for metro governments and municipalities at town level to have clear transport plans and to connect these plans to their local development plans. This is not going to effectively happen unless there is empowerment and capacitation. I hope that significant sections of this budget that the Minister will be spending on the department will go towards facilitating this capacitation. While the Minister is about it, he can also give Dr Odendaal a couple of CD-ROMs as well to help him to understand what is happening, as it seems he is a bit confused about these matters.

Many of the agencies that fall within the Department of Transport’s budget appear to be functioning extremely well. The Minister has mentioned the South African National Roads Agency, the Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company, the SA Maritime Safety Authority, the Cross-Border Road Transport Agency, and notwithstanding some difficulties, the Civil Aviation Authority. The Minister has also mentioned the ISO 2001 achievement, which is one in three in the world.

The Road Accident Fund presents us with very complicated challenges. It receives a levy imposed on petrol and diesel. The fund’s total assets in 2000 were R2,2 billion, but its current liabilities have risen to R2,6 billion and its long-term liabilities are somewhere in the region of R10 billion. A long-term strategy is clearly required, and we look forward to the outcome of the commission headed by Judge Satchwell, which we expect in the coming months. We also look forward to interacting with the RAF and all interested parties.

We also notice that in this budget the Minister proposes to set up two further regulatory authorities, which are the rail safety regulator and a port regulating authority. We look forward to playing our legislative role in helping to set them up. When it comes to the rail safety regulator, it should be noted that rail safety in South Africa is not just about operational safety such as signals, maintenance of infrastructure and operating protocols. Rail safety is unfortunately also about a range of social problems: suicides on rail tracks, vandalism and theft, effective crowd control and communications, muggings and murders. Sadly, yesterday there were another two deaths on the Cape rail network.

We do not know whether these social issues fall under the idea of a rail safety regulator as well or whether they need to be addressed in other ways, but they certainly have to be addressed. They need to get priority attention. If we are to achieve the switch from road to rail that we envisage, we have to address safety.

The Minister spoke about the need to grasp the infrastructure investment nettle in his speech. We could not agree more. Both road and particularly rail infrastructure and rolling stock are suffering seriously as a result of 20 years of neglect. We need to find creative ways to address this.

Finally, on behalf of the portfolio committee, I would like to thank the Minister, the director-general and staff members, especially those doing parliamentary liaison work, for their availability and frankness and for their encouragement and assistance to us in our attempts to develop our oversight role. This is very much appreciated. The ANC supports Vote 32. [Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Chairperson, hon Deputy President and hon Minister, it is a pleasure to take part in this Transport Vote debate. I can really say without fear of contradiction that it is a privilege to be a member of the transport portfolio committee with a Minister such as Mr Omar, who I think enjoys the respect that he deserves from all parties, in spite of what Dr Odendaal has said. [Applause.]

Our portfolio committee performs extremely well with the quality of members that we have under the able leadership of the hon Jeremy Cronin. The IFP will be supporting this Vote, but let me immediately say that it is not without many serious reservations. When one considers the expectations that are placed on the department from both Government and the public, it is unrealistic to expect the department to perform to those expectations on the limited budget it receives.

Let me use the following example. Of the total budget of R4,649 billion, just R100 million is allocated for infrastructure spread over two years. How can we be expected, for instance, to maintain our rolling stock, which was already 25 years old in 1994, on funds of this nature? However, I have no intention of discussing any budget figures as such. I am sure other speakers in the debate who have nothing else to say will cover this for us.

Op die gebied van vervoer is daar geweldig baie kwessies wat ‘n mens kan bespreek, en wat dan ook elke jaar deur verskeie sprekers gedek word. Ek wil graag vandag ‘n paar aspekte bespreek wat nie normaalweg altyd die hoofberigte haal nie.

Min mense sal besef watter ontsaglike skade misdaad en meer spesifiek diefstal in vervoer aanrig. Metrorail ly jaarliks etlike miljoene rande se skade weens venstervandalisme en die diefstal van koperkabels. Metrorail se treine kort tans meer as 2 800 vensters wat meer as R1 miljoen sal kos om te vervang. Mense hang aan die bagasierakke, swaai heen en weer, en skop die vensters uit. Hulle lê dan langs die spoorlyne waar medepligtiges dit later kom optel om te verkoop.

Meer as R1 miljoen se koperkabels is ook gesteel. ‘n Maand gelede is daar op die Naledi-spoorlyn 84 sinjaalkoppe oor ‘n tydperk van drie dae gesteel. Dit het daartoe gelei dat duisende treinpendelaars dae lank gestrand was aangesien dit vanselfsprekend onveilig was om die treine in dié omstandighede te laat loop.

Alhoewel dit seker nie ‘n gewilde saak sal wees om aan te roer nie sal die departement baie ernstig daarna moet kyk om weer ‘n volbloedpolisiemag vir vervoer op die been te bring. Die ou spoorwegpolisie, soos hulle bekend gestaan het, was baie meer effektief om spoorwegeiendom te beskerm en te beveilig as wat sekuriteitsmaatskappye tans is. Feit is, ‘n voornemende misdadiger is baie meer skrikkerig vir ‘n polisiebeampte as vir ‘n veiligheidswag. Hierdie is ‘n kwessie wat doodeenvoudig nie langer geïgnoreer sal kan word nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [In the area of transport there are an inordinate number of issues that one could discuss, which are in fact covered by various speakers every year. Today I would like to discuss a few aspects that do not normally make the headlines.

Few people realise what tremendous damage crime and, more specifically, theft do to transport. Metrorail annually incurs several millions of rands in damage owing to window vandalism and the theft of copper cables. Metrorail’s trains are at present short of 2 800 windows, which would cost over R1 million to replace. People hang onto luggage racks, swing backwards and forwards, and kick the windows out. The windows then lie beside the railway tracks, where accomplices later collect them so as to sell them.

Over R1 million rands’ worth of copper cables have also been stolen. A month ago on the Naledi railway line 84 signal heads were stolen over a period of three days. This left thousands of train commuters stranded as it was obviously unsafe to allow trains to run in those circumstances.

Although it would not be a popular matter to deal with, the department will have to take a serious look at once again introducing a full-blooded police force for transport. The old railway police, as they were known, were much more effective at protecting and safeguarding railway property than security companies are at present. The fact of the matter is, a prospective criminal is far more wary of a police officer than a security guard. This is an issue that simply cannot be ignored any longer.]

An issue that also needs urgent attention is the very long distances our children in rural areas often need to walk to school. It is a fact that many rural children live up to six or more kilometres away from their schools. They have to get up as early as 04:00 to get to school on time. It is not possible to study successfully under these circumstances. It would appear that the Government is considering supplying these children with bicycles, which, at face value, seems like a wonderful idea. We are, however, concerned that it could, in some cases and in many parts of our country, lead to more problems than it would be solving. I hope these bicycles will be equipped with canopies to protect against the sun and rain.

The safety of children on the roads on bicycles, especially primary school children, is of particular concern. The terrain of some of our provinces is also of such a nature that the child will ride the bicycle downhill all the way in the morning, only to have to push it all the way uphill in the afternoon. I suspect the only answer to this issue is that rural schools should all be supplied with school buses to transport the children to and from school. Are these children not also entitled to ``a better life for all’’, which, after all, is a Government slogan? I seriously do not believe that there is another answer to this.

An issue which is very much a matter of public debate at the moment is that of the arrogant Coleman Andrews, an American who was supposed to be a twinkling star, but whose appointment ended in disaster. As we now know, Andrews, as chief executive officer of SA Airways, was paid almost R232 million for his efforts - an unbelievable R10 million a month - which cannot be justified and must be properly investigated. Is it not shocking to see that Andrews was worth more to South Africa than our own hon President? It would further appear that the sudden major turnaround from a loss to a profit for SAA under Mr Andrews had a lot to do with the selling off of assets, and is therefore not a real profit. I must sincerely thank the Minister for Public Enterprises - although he is not here - for the open and transparent manner in which he informed the House on these issues last week. That is the way things should be done.

At a presentation by British Airways to the portfolio committee in Johannesburg, shortly after the appointment of Andrews, I raised the question of whether South Africa really did not have suitable people to appoint. The gentleman who was doing the presentation said that South Africa had many suitable people. What caused me embarrassment was that I was immediately told in a rude way by the former MP, Gregory Rockman, that the matter could not be discussed because it was a majority party appointment. To save the gentleman from British Airways further embarrassment, I left it at that. Fortunately, Mr Rockman is no longer here, and we hope and trust that this sad saga will never repeat itself. Right now, the detractors of South Africa and the new Government are laughing at us, and no one more than Andrews himself.

I want the House to take what I have to say now in the spirit that it is meant: National transport in South Africa has too many masters. There are too many bulls in the ring, as I have said before. It may be that a single line of authority needs to be established to achieve a sharp focus on all relevant matters concerning transport. National public transport as such needs to be placed under the authority of only one Minister. All transport problems of whatever nature need to be addressed with undivided attention, and that is why a single line of authority is so necessary.

Wat wetstoepassing op ons paaie betref, het die situasie aansienlik verbeter, alhoewel dit nog ver van standaard af is. Ons sit nog steeds met die probleem dat ons verkeersbeamptes seker bykans 90% van hulle energie spandeer om baie klein oortredings te polisieer. Daarmee probeer ek geensins sê dat klein oortredings nie ook vasgevat moet word nie, maar dit is ooglopend hoe daar weggeskram word van die harde teikens. Hulle slaan die sagte teikens ontsettend hard, maar is doodeenvoudig blykbaar nie bereid om die harde teikens ook genoegsaam aan te vat nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[As far as law enforcement on our roads is concerned, the situation has improved considerably, although it is still far from being on standard. We still have the problem of traffic officers devoting about 90% of their energy to policing very minor offences. When I say that I am not suggesting for one moment that minor offences should not also be clamped down on, but it is evident that the hard targets are being avoided. They hit the soft targets incredibly hard, but are apparently simply not prepared to tackle the hard targets adequately.]

I would have loved also to touch on the taxi recapitalisation programme and several other issues, like the 3 500 irregular drivers’ licences identified in the town of Tzaneen alone, but I am running out of time. Let me express my sincere appreciation to all the departmental officials, from the director-general down to the most junior staff member. In conclusion, I want the House to realise that the Department of Transport is not a Mickey Mouse department. If transport comes to a standstill, our country could come to a standstill overnight. [Applause.]

Mr N E MAGUBANE: Mr Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers, hon members, last year the Department of Transport reported that 50% of the country’s rural roads were classified as being in a poor condition. The absence of sustainable funding mechanisms, with particular reference to rural roads, remains a matter of serious concern.

The Department of Transport formed a joint technical committee, known as Transport 4x4, with the Department of Finance to develop an appropriate funding approach to transport infrastructure. The delaying of infrastructure maintenance as a means of dealing with shortfalls elsewhere can only be sustained for short periods of time before infrastructure conditions deteriorate to a point at which more experienced rehabilitation becomes essential.

The deterioration of rural roads seems to be a common occurrence in most of South Africa’s provinces. In KwaZulu-Natal, a number of roads have been closed. The road from Winterton to Ladysmith, for instance, has been closed to all traffic except residents, as no funds are available to repair it. A report that was tabled at the Cape Metropolitan Council Transportation and Traffic Committee in Cape Town described eight major roads in the metropolitan area as unsafe.

A minimum of R30 million is needed to build new roads in the rural areas outside of commercial farming areas. Studies have indicated that 80% of rural village roads and 91% of the roads in scattered settlement areas in the former homelands are inadequate. In the scattered settlement areas, there are no roads of high or intermediate quality, and only 9% are of basic quality. It has been established that 100 000 km of access roads are required to connect rural people to the transport network of the country.

The roads in South Africa’s rural areas are so bad that more than half of them have to be reconstructed. The absence of sustainable funding mechanisms for transport infrastructure remains a matter of serious concern. Money meant to be used for the building and repair of roads is being diverted for the Government’s running costs.

Approximately R100 million was made available, through the presidential poverty alleviation programme, to the Department of Transport. Key rural roads will be maintained and upgraded, where a range of integrated development initiatives are in the process of being delivered. According to the Moving South Africa Project, almost 80% of the rural population resides in villages and densely populated settlements. It has been established that rural communities need better roads than they have at present. Roads need to be provided in a sustainable fashion to those communities that need them most. In many such communities, the economics of a road upgrade will not support the so-called 15% internal rate of return that is usually recommended as a return-on-investment hurdle.

Funding for social and noneconomic infrastructure needs to be done in a transparent manner. Roads that can be self-sustaining and that can create sufficiently high levels of internal economic returns should be identified. At the same time, roads that are primarily developmental in character, and are therefore unable to create sufficient economic returns to be self- sustainable, should also be identified.

Data on South Africa’s rural areas is rather scant. It has therefore become critically important to fill the gaps in data on rural roads. Although studies on the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal have provided some data on community access roads, this needs to be supplemented in order to be able to do some proactive work in the field of rural road provision and maintenance in all of South Africa’s provinces. South Africa, like most other developed and developing countries, faces the challenges of both improving and maintaining its existing transport infrastructure. This challenge goes hand in hand with industrial and commercial development. It is also clear that the planning of transport infrastructure is an ongoing and a long-term process.

An important feature of the provision and maintenance of rural roads is the division of the maintenance of roads at the level of local, provincial and national government. This emphasises the need to focus on service delivery in rural areas where the need is the greatest. This presupposes proper planning, proper departmental monitoring and supervision of projects and proper consultation between Government, departments and beneficiaries.

South Africa’s policy on rural, provincial and national transport is, to a large extent, based on the 1996 White Paper on National Transport Policy, which is to provide safe, reliable, effective, efficient and integrated transport operations and infrastructure which will best meet the needs of freight and passenger customers. It is also aimed at improving the level of service and cost in a fashion that supports Government strategies for economic and social development while being environmentally and economically sustainable.

Okunye okukhona emadolobheni amancane asemakhaya, ngama-Transport Forum. Le nhlangano ibhekela isimo semigwaqo emakhaya, ithuthukise amazinga emigwaqo. KwaZulu-Natali, le nhlangano seyakhe imigwaqo eminingi ehlanganisa izigodi ngezigodi. Mandulo abantu basemakhaya le ntuthuko babeyibukela kude. Babengacabangi ukuthi ngelinye ilanga imigwaqo iyoba yinto ekhona nasemakhaya. Le migwaqo yakhiwe yilaba ababizwa ngokuthi izinkonteleka ezifufusayo. Laba bantu babengekho esikhathini esingaphambili ni, baqale ukuba khona manje ngoba uKhongolose esebusa izwe. Baveza amathuba emisebenzi kubantu basemakhaya. Baqasha ndoda baqashe mama ngokufanayo nangamaholo. Sibabona omama beqhuba amabhala nezipeti, bevula izipapuli ukuze izulu uma lina … [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[The other things that are found in small rural towns are transport forums. These forums are there to monitor the situation in the rural areas and to improve the quality of roads. In KwaZulu-Natal the forum has built many roads that connect many places. In the olden times the rural people saw this development as something that was far from them. They did not think that one day roads would be built in the rural areas. The so-called small developing contractors build these roads. These contractors did not exist before. They started to emerge recently, since the ANC came into power. These contractors are creating job opportunities for the rural community. They employ both men and women and they are paid equal salaries. We see women pushing wheelbarrows and carrying spades. They are opening waterpipes so that when it rains … [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mr S B FARROW: Mr Chairperson, let me, at the outset, say that the budget briefing by the Director-General of the Department of Transport to the portfolio committee did not enthuse me as a layperson into believing that the Minister was on track or that his budget addressed the real issues that are facing transport in South Africa. [Interjections.]

Despite the restructuring of the budget into three programmes, it still does not truly reflect an outcomes-based format. One just has to listen to the public at large out there to realise the problem facing the Department of Transport and decide for oneself if the budget, in any way, attempts to face these issues head-on. These are: the declining road and rail infrastructure, the high accident rate, ongoing taxi feuds, violence and general disorganisation around the structuring and recapitalisation programme.

Firstly, let me talk about the infrastructure. South Africa has been blessed with good, sound road and rail infrastructure. But, due to consistent overloading by road haulers and a lack of maintenance, our road infrastructure has slowly but surely been eroded to the point that it is now estimated that R65 billion is required to catch up with the backlog. In last year’s budget, I referred to this very problem and, despite the assurance of the Minister that the National Roads Agency and the provinces would work together in a move to declare some provincial road sections national roads to be preserved and improved as part of the national toll schemes, this has not materialised to any extent.

The fact that much of the money allocated to provinces for the fuel levy never gets to be spent on road maintenance is another factor which needs to be formalised. The Minister indicated that future allocations would be ring- fenced on a proportional basis in order to ensure that funds are used clearly for meeting road maintenance backlogs in the provinces. This, too, does not seem to have really materialised.

Meanwhile the impact of deteriorating road surfaces is having a major effect on our economy, which is borne out by the 5% to 15% road environment accidents reported by Arrive Alive annually, and the 5% to 33% increase in poor roads since 1990, which has recently been reported on. Rail infrastructure has also been affected by the lack of funds. Here, too, the rolling stock, signals and track maintenance accumulated a backlog estimated to be in the region of R22 billion.

Metrorail is battling to keep its rolling stock and systems going and to ensure the safety of its passengers. Shosholoza Meyl, the main line passenger service of Spoornet, is looking at about R450 million over the next five years to refurbish rolling stock and to set the entity on a sound financial footing. This service has had a decline in passenger usage from 45 million passengers in 1982 to 4,2 million today. One needs to ask the question: Why? A concerted effort is needed by Government to build on these two services in order to make them a viable, affordable, sustainable and safe public operator. Here I must just mention the Bellville murders that took place yesterday and various other aspects of safety which have not been addressed. Serious consideration should also be given to the merging of Shosholoza Meyl and Metrorail under one concessionary agreement responsible for the operations whilst the SARCC becomes responsible for the maintenance of infrastructure and rolling stock directly funded by the state.

Rail in South Africa has become the most ineffectively used mode of transport, and this can be primarily attributed to the deteriorating service delivery, uncompetitive rates, long delivery times and high incidence of pilferage. The fact that Spoornet has to maintain infrastructure whilst truckers do not gives road freighters a competitive advantage. This needs urgent redress if we are going to be serious about levelling the playing fields between road and rail.

These deficiencies are creating logistical nightmares for importers and bulk users alike, and I am asking the Minister to seriously look at ways and means of efficiently shifting cargo from the roads to rail and in so doing make rail once again an attractive alternative. The quick-fix solution of turning rail around needs to take into consideration the fact that rail is far more efficient and cheaper to maintain than a highway.

The question that must be asked is: Why, then, does the department not look at prioritising its funding strategy towards improving rail in such a way that South Africa can compete in global markets? Most of this only requires internal restructuring, re-engineering and restrategising. Much as Jeremy does not think it really is the answer, I think good management could actually assist in bringing these two aspects together.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, he is the hon Mr Cronin.

Mr S B FARROW: Yes, Chairperson, the hon Mr Cronin. Arrive Alive has been doing a reasonable job in bringing our accident rate down, providing the department with statistics relating to the type of accident, and to a certain extent educating and making the public aware of the causes of accidents. This information should be more readily used in areas of high accident incidents on a focused year-round campaign. I am pleased to hear that that is taking place.

However, traffic police could be more readily used and more visible to bring to book those consistent offenders causing the majority of accidents, and not only during peak holiday periods. Funds must be allocated towards a more co-ordinated approach to road safety using traffic and police personnel nationally, provincially and locally.

Shortfalls in personnel, vehicles and equipment should be identified and a sincere effort made to supplement the shortfalls where they exist through budgetary support. By not doing this, the Minister is holding himself accountable for over 9 000 road deaths and 140 000 accidents on our roads annually. He and his provincial counterparts must show the public that they mean business. We cannot continue to accept the disregard, by aggressive drivers, of the rules of the road and vehicles that are unroadworthy or overloaded and, on top of that, expect drivers to cope with badly maintained and poorly signposted roadways.

Finally, let me focus on another matter which needs urgent attention, and which I see very little support for in the budget set before us today. This entails the whole question of promoting and encouraging the efficient use of public transport. Rail and bus services leave a lot to be desired, but the fact remains that 60% of the general public rely on minibus taxis for their commuter needs.

Some 126 000 taxi operators, be they legal or otherwise, continue to serve urban, rural and long distance routes in our country, yet no subsidies for their services are considered in the budget. The fact remains that, despite concerted efforts provincially and nationally, to date no formal and fully representative taxi body exists to take forward the proposals entrenched in the National Land Transport Transition Act.

The recapitalisation scheme that we have heard so much about has still not reached any conclusive way forward. In the meantime, taxi operators wait in anticipation whilst their vehicles get older and older and are reluctant to do any major repairs, whilst Government dilly-dallies with clear-cut decisions on their way forward at great cost to the many lives being lost through taxi-related accidents. The Minister needs to go back to the drawing board, listen to the signals coming from out there and refocus his attention on the more serious problems facing transport, and he should restructure his budget to meet these priorities. Failure to do so will erode the most important contributor to our economy - our sound infrastructure and the very lives of our people. [Applause.]

Ms S K MNUMZANA: Madam Speaker …

… pele ke qala, ke tla rata hore ke etse tlhompho ho batho bohle ba leng Komiting ya tsa Dipalangwang, ka hore, ha ngata ha re tlile ho tlo fuwa ditlhaloso ka ha ntho tsena, re mamele. Re seke ra mamela feela seo rona re ratang ho se mamela, ebe hosane re be re bua dintho tseo re sa di tsebeng. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)

[… before I start, I would like to say, as an act of respect to all the people in the Transport committee, that when we come here to get briefings about these issues, we must listen. We must not only listen to the things that we want to listen to, and end up talking about things that we do not really know about.]

The role of the Government in the recapitalisation scheme is purely to facilitate the change-over to a more efficient, effective and safe transport mode. The industry is arising from a situation in which the apartheid regime failed to make adequate provision for the needs of the overwhelming majority, who happen to be black. Many people see minibus taxis as a curse but for more than 60% of the population, they are the only mode of transport.

The growth of the minibus taxi industry is one of the heroic stories of the struggle of the black South Africans against the economic oppression imposed by the apartheid government. It is the only industry with the greatest potential to empower the majority of our black people.

Mopalami e mong o hlalosa bophelo le leeto la hae la ka mehla ka mokgwa o tjena: O re o ne a tsoha ka hora ya bone hoseng, a eya mosebetsing, mme o ne a tlamehile ho ya seteisheneng se haufinyane le yena hore a tle a tsebe ho fumana dipalangwang. Dipalangwang tseo a neng a di fumana, ho ne ho se ka mokgwa o mong, e ne e le tsona tsena tse palangwang ke batho kaofela.

Ha a fihla seteisheneng, o ne a fumana terene mme ha a theoha hape o ne a nka leeto ho fihla mosebetsing. Mohlang a fihlang mosebetsing, motho enwa wa Modimo ebe o kgathetse. Re ka hopola hore motho enwa o ne a nka dihora tse 17, ho ya mosebetsing, a sebetsa dihora tse robong mme tse ding tse robedi a di qeta leetong, a eya hodimo le tlase ka dipalangwang, hore a fihle hae kapa mosebetsing.

Ho fihleng ha indastri ena ya ditekesi, nako ya hae ya kgutsufala ka hora tse nne ho isa ho tse hlano. Ka hoo, bophelo ba hae bo ile ba ntlafala. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[One commuter describes his commuting life like this: He says he used to wake up at four in the morning, to go to work, and he had to go to the nearest station to get transport. The transport he would get was the usual one used by everybody. There was no other way.

When he got to the station, he would get a train, and when he got off the train, he would walk a long distance to work. When he finally got to work, this poor person would be very tired. We must remember that it used to take him 17 hours, altogether, to get to and from work. He worked for nine hours and the other eight hours he would spend on the road, going up and down in this public transport, to get to work and back home.

On the arrival of the taxi industry, his time on the road was cut down by four or five hours. Therefore, his life became easier.]

Similar changes occurred in the lives of people all over South Africa, but the taxi industry, in my view, will revolutionise the transport system in the country. The benefits gained from the advent of the minibus taxi are never properly communicated. The family lives of black people improved. People had more energy to put into their work; they could increase their earnings and look for jobs further from their homes, and their social lives improved. The list goes on and on. But what I want to highlight is that when people talk about the taxis, they should not only talk about the negative things, such as bad drivers, unsafe vehicles, and taxi wars.

The apartheid government left the industry unregulated for many years, whereas the bus industry flourished because of the subsidies given to it and due to the fact that it was white-owned. [Applause.] The taxi recapitalisation process is designed to change that legacy. The Be Legal campaign which is currently under way is designed to formalise the industry and give every operator an opportunity to register. The days of illegal operators and radius-based permits are over.

In their place come legalisation and route-based permits. Those who stand in the way of change will be swept aside as the tide swings against them. Forward with the Be Legal campaign, forward!

HON MEMBERS: Forward!

Ms S K MNUMZANA: It is a fact that taxi owners did not have access to capital or credit facilities. The question is: Why? The terrain was skewed to make them small and not allow them to grow big. That reality is fast changing, as this recapitalisation process ushers in a new era. I have no doubt about the Government’s commitment to supporting the industry, as this recapitalisation process will deepen what started many years ago as a black man’s business.

There is no doubt that the taxi industry does not have a good image. Every few days taxi accidents that result in deaths and injuries to large numbers of passengers are reported. With the recapitalisation process, new, safe and purpose-built vehicles will be introduced. The transformation of the industry is aimed at the integration of the taxi industry into the public transport system, so that the industry is not left on the periphery. What we need is to strengthen the industry so that it becomes sustainable and passenger-friendly.

As part of the transformation of the taxi industry, the National Taxi Task Team, as its key objective, identified the consolidation, advancement and sustainability of the industry. Consolidation includes the taxi unity process. I am encouraged that Government is facilitating the unity process to finally form a united Sataco.

In terms of the advancement of the industry, a national transport register will be developed, and the industry will be regulated through the National Land Transport Transition Act. Research shows an estimated 126 000 legal taxis operated in South Africa by August 2000. The Department of Transport estimated that there were more illegal taxis than legal ones during the same period.

It is the objective of the Government that the existing fleet be replaced by microbuses. The process will take place over a period of five years. The policy of recapitalisation means, in effect, that by 2004 no minibus taxis with 12 or 14 seats will be seen on South African roads.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: But do they want to?

Ms S K MNUMZANA: The R3,2 billion vehicle contracts will be spread over a period of five years, and will involve the manufacturing of 85 000 minibus taxis. We are now workshopping these members.

The process of shortlisting has been completed, though it is unfortunate that one of the potential manufacturers to effect the replacement of the correct minibus taxi fleet, which was ranked high, is currently under liquidation. The Government will, hopefully, deal with that aspect, as the final adjudication nears conclusion.

The recapitalisation has been plagued with numerous problems. Empa, Mosotho wa kgale o re ha ho tse fumanwang di tonositse. [However, an old wise Mosotho said, nothing is for free.]

According to the latest statistics on taxi operation in the Republic of South Africa, more than 480 associations are operating throughout the country. Sataco, which was launched in Pretoria in 1998, is the umbrella body for all provincial taxi organisations. In addition to that, it acts as a mediator in the event of disputes between taxi organisations, and it plays an active role in eliminating the cause of taxi violence. Both Sataco and Government signed a memo.

A conference for the national taxi associations will be held this year to draw up a constitution and choose national leaders. The conference is intended to give the industry a new structure to represent it during the further negotiations on the recapitalisation programme. The Government, Sataco and other stakeholders have endorsed the conference, except for the national taxi alliance. The Government and the ANC support the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Mr A R AINSLIE: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, Minister and hon members, when one considers the fact that the ANC has been in power for a mere seven years and that, during this time, it has had to contend with over 300 years of backlogs, corruption and neglect of the kind which saw millions of rands being spent on building roads in white areas and little or nothing in rural areas and townships, of the kind which saw P W Botha divert transport money to fight his war in Namibia, then what the transport department and, indeed, the Government as a whole has achieved in this time is nothing short of remarkable.

Dr Odendaal and Mr Farrow do not have bad memories; they are in a state of denial. There is no need for them to go back to the drawing board, but possibly there is a need for them to go back to school and learn a little bit of history. For the first time in our history, in fact, we have a comprehensive transport policy that encompasses all the people, not just some of the people.

My constituency of Inanda near Durban had to wait until the ANC came to power in 1994 to get even the most basic transport infrastructure and facilities. Inanda’s first robots, its first zebra crossings, traffic islands, rumble strips, even its first bus shelters and school road safety programmes, were provided only after 1994 as a result of ANC policies. Of course, these things had long been common in privileged areas next to us, in Durban North and Umhlanga Rocks, as Dr Odendaal and Mr Farrow could probably tell us.

But much remains to be done and the Department of Transport in particular faces many challenges. One of these challenges is the high vehicle collision and fatality rate on our roads. We have about 500 000 smashes each year in which some 10 000 people are killed and approximately 150 000 injured. But the ANC-led Government is meeting this challenge.

The Department of Transport said it would deliver on road safety and, as we have heard again today, it is delivering on road safety. The Arrive Alive target of reducing road fatalities by 5% has been exceeded, I believe, by over 2%. When the final figures are out we can look for a reduction in fatalities of something in the order of 7,4% since the inception of the project. I believe congratulations are in order to the Minister, the MECs and the respective transport departments. The transformation of Arrive Alive into a year-round campaign will bring new challenges, not least of which will be the campaign’s budget. The amendment we passed last week to the Road Accident Fund Act will ensure continued funding from this source. The fund has for several years made an annual contribution of about R50 million. This may have been sufficient for a focus on peak holiday periods, but it is insufficient for a year-round campaign. Additional funds and active support will have to be found from the business sector, religious institutions and NGOs if the department is to continue with the success achieved so far.

However, Madam Speaker, one cannot discuss road safety without mentioning KwaZulu-Natal. Much of the approach to road safety that forms part of Arrive Alive and now forms part of the Road to Safety strategy was pioneered by KZN. The province has been acknowledged as a world leader in road safety among developing countries and has been recognised as such by the World Bank. Its Asiphephe road safety programme is a good example of what can be achieved when the will of political leaders, committed departmental officials and dedicated funding are merged to work together to bring sanity to our roads.

The approach in KwaZulu-Natal is one of zero tolerance: zero tolerance for any and every offence, from illegal parking to drunk driving and speeding. The booze buses strike terror into the hearts of even the most hardened drunk drivers. One may speed through the Western Cape on the way to Durban and get away with it, one may speed through the Free State and speed through Gauteng and get away with it, but as one gets closer to KwaZulu- Natal one must be certain of one thing: As one approaches KwaZulu-Natal, somewhere between Harrismith and Pinetown, they are going to get you.

Possibly the most serious challenge in relation to road safety is the vigorous implementation of the enforcement leg of the programme. This includes the deployment of sufficient numbers of traffic officers. But more traffic police alone will not solve the problem. Effective enforcement also requires the implementation of the set of laws Parliament has passed since 1999:

Firstly, we look for, in particular, the implementation of the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act. This Act provides for a more efficient system of collecting traffic fines. It also provides for a points demerit system. A driver’s licence will be suspended after 12 penalty points. For every point over 12, the driver’s licence will be suspended for three months.

Drivers will only be allowed two suspensions. When a licence is suspended for a third time it will be cancelled and the driver will have to undergo a driver’s test again. In very serious cases a court may forbid a driver ever to drive again. The proper application of this Act should help prevent the type of accident which occurred at Muldersdrift two weeks ago, in which 12 people were killed.

It is reported that police found several traffic tickets in the vehicle after this accident. These tickets show that the driver had previously been booked for driving without a public permit, jumping a red robot, illegal overtaking and driving an unlicensed vehicle. Each of these violations under the Act could earn a driver four demerit points. I say ``could’’ because these demerit points have not yet been finalised, and his or her licence would be suspended after the third violation.

The Act is designed to detect abhorrent driver behaviour early, before it becomes habitual and eventually leads to the horrific crashes members have seen on our roads recently. There may be budgetary constraints in implementing the Act, but if we are to break the continued cycle of violence on our roads, then the funds need to be found.

Secondly, the Road Traffic Management Corporation Act is specifically intended to strengthen co-ordination between the national, provincial and local spheres of government. The objectives of the RTMC include uniform law enforcement and uniform vehicle and driver testing and licensing. The arrest last week of the Khayelitsha traffic chiefs for allegedly issuing false drivers’ licences is a sign that the authorities are taking the allegations of driver licensing scams seriously. We commend their efforts.

Another objective of the RTMC is the professional career development of our traffic officers. The road safety strategy relies heavily on our traffic officers. We need to ensure that their training and remuneration are on a level that encourages professionalism and dedication to their duties. Safety on our roads is not advanced when traffic officers come off a long and demanding shift in the field and then have to moonlight to make ends meet. I believe that the department is preparing for the launch of the RTMC, and we welcome this. As anxious as we are for the Act to be implemented as a priority, it makes sense that the new municipal authorities need first to be prepared for their traffic management functions. [Applause.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Madam Speaker, allow me first to congratulate the Minister on having delivered quite a comprehensive speech. May I say that it is a pleasure to work with the officials and also with the portfolio committee.

Unfortunately and very sadly, I have to inform Comrade Mnumzana that just before she spoke I was told about a bad accident that took place just outside Worcester on the N2. Something like 18 people were badly hurt.

A disturbing trend is manifesting itself. It seems that everybody who has anything to do with public transport, especially Mr George, has developed a fixation on millions and billions of rands. The latest is a report that tells us that expenditure on roads has to be doubled to R7 billion, just to halt further deterioration, and that, worst of all, R6 billion per annum, for 10 years, will be required to reverse the trend.

Yes, it may be true, it may be factual, but where does it get us when we have a total budget for transport, this year, of R4,69 billion? The Minister was told earlier that an estimated R10 billion was required immediately for the upgrading of infrastructure and rolling stock or - this has said, almost threateningly - there would be no rail services within 15 years.

It may well be so. I will leave it to others to worry about the figures. I will rather touch on matters that require planning, organisation and a good measure of common sense. I would say that a good majority of the 40 million South Africans would prefer to use rail services. I would, both for commuting and for longer-distance travelling, because it is inexpensive. It is expensive to use private transport at the moment.

However, rail travel is currently unsafe and unreliable. Just one of Metrorail’s regions is obliged to use R75 million a year on private security, and that is just one of them. It still loses R120 million on fare evasions and suffers heavy losses due to severe and costly vandalism and the theft of cable and signal boxes. As a result of this, commuters arrive late for work and lose their jobs. There are people who use every means available to force trains to a halt in order to rob passengers.

What am I saying? I am saying that the need for effective policing of rail services has become a top priority. I am not expecting the Minister of Transport to become the Minister of Safety and Security, but I am asking that he should ask and demand that Cabinet requests the Minister of Safety and Security to urge volunteers from his large force of 122 000 police to be trained in the specific skills that are required to protect the interests of the rail customer. This effort will pay for itself in no time at all. Spoornet’s Mr Jakavula’s handsome main line trains, Shosholoza Meyl, with their bright new livery, will become even more attractive if this is done.

It will take a mere decision, not millions and billions of rands, and the enforcement of this decision also, to curb the destruction of the roads network by the 56 tons of gross mass that we still so readily allow on the roads. The further overloading of huge freighters over and above these high tonnages can similarly be stamped out. With specially trained intelligence- guided squads of police pouncing at the right places and at the right times, and taking decisive action against wrongdoers, Spoornet will be able to take the weight off the overburdened road freight carriers. They will also be able to do so if they are given the same rate rebates on bulk diesel levies as other nonroad consumers such as the shipping and fishing industries. Metrorail, similarly, will soon have their customers back.

It will not require millions or billions of rands, in the long-awaited restructuring of Transnet and other institutions, to eliminate some of the institutional duplication and overlapping of authority which is so widespread. For example, the Department of Public Enterprises structure, Transnet, which is a complex with 22 companies, contracts the SA Rail Commuter Corporation, which is a Department of Transport creation, as asset owner and Metrorail for rail operations and maintenance. There is nothing more debilitating than having more than one authority involved in deciding a particular issue.

At another level, the Department of Transport appears to be less involvedÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Time expired.]

Mrs T P SHILUBANA: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President and hon Minister, our biggest challenge is best explained in the words of the Minister of Finance in November 1999, when he said, and I quote:

This is an emphasis that cannot continue for too long, because the curve that describes the decay of inadequately maintained economic assets becomes dangerously steep if relative neglect persists beyond a few years.

The backlog for repairing South African roads exceeds R53 billion, and much of it emanates from the 1970s, when the then state president, P W Botha, redirected the roads maintenance budget to fight what he called the total onslaught. We acknowledge the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework amount of R7 billion for all infrastructure, but more is needed to close the gap. According to some research, the volume of traffic on national roads, as in 1999, increased by 20% over 1998. We have more cars and fewer roads. It does not take a genius to foresee the consequences of this.

A studying of the funding historically available for national roads under the control of the agency makes it apparent that despite the fact that traffic volumes have grown by more than 3% per annum over the past 20 years, funds allocated by Government for national roads need to be increased. This sustained underfunding has resulted in us living off our roads assets for the past 10 to 15 years, and we are now facing very significant costs to try and maintain existing roads at a reasonable standard and retrieve the backlog in maintenance expenditure.

Added to this fiscal burden, developing countries such as South Africa and its neighbours face the challenge of providing roads infrastructure as a step towards socioeconomic development. We congratulate this Government on the fact that, in recognising the constraints under which we have to ensure that Government, inter alia, meets basic needs, the agency has developed a programme for the next 10 years. We believe that the implementation of this programme, together with the appropriate funding levels as contemplated, will result in the containment and elimination of the funding backlog.

The main objective of the programme is to facilitate, through the appropriate channels, acceptance for the implementation of the proposed toll road expansion programme and related funding plan. This programme allows the agency to assist Government to obtain maximum leverage without compromising fiscal integrity. The concession contracts that are currently under way, that is the public-private partnership, have a good effect in trying to close the gap.

These concession contracts are: the N4 Maputo development corridor, the N3 toll road project and the N4 platinum toll highway. As already stated by the hon the Minister, through these projects, approximately R8,8 billion is invested from the private sector in the country over a period of 30 years, thus making available this amount to Treasury for allocation elsewhere.

In October 1996, the Governments of South Africa, Swaziland and Mozambique acknowledged that the need for efficient transport infrastructure was crucial to unlocking the potential of the Lubombo SDI area. This first major investment by the South African Government in the SDI was for the upgrading of roads. The National Roads Agency has committed over R200 million on major rehabilitation projects over the past three years and by mid-2001 all but 50 km of the 375 km of the N2 from Durban to Swaziland will be in excellent condition.

During this period, contracts amounting to R58 million have been awarded to nearly 40 SMMEs and the total in wages amounted to about R4 million, which provided jobs for about 300 people for periods ranging from three months to over two years. Up to 100% of all routine road maintenance contracts, to the value of R5 million per year, on the 180 km section from Richard’s Bay to the Pongola River are now executed by four local SMMEs, which have been developed over the period.

A further seven local SMMEs have been engaged on shorter specialised contracts. Most of these workers have also been trained in skills that they can apply in future. However, it is estimated that 100 000 km of access roads are required to connect rural people to the transport network.

Vutomi byo antswa eka vanhu hinkwavo. Hi minkarhi ya xihlawuhlawu mapatu lama a ya hundza kumbe ku fika laha ku tshamaka vantima a ya nga khataleriwi. A ya nga tivi na xikontiri, kambe mapatu lama a ya tsemakanya mapurasi ya valungu, yo tala ya wona a ya cheriwa xikontiri. Xikombiso hi lexi, ku na patu rin’wana le Northern Province, exifundzeni xa Ritavi, leri tsemakanyaka hi le Tarentaal ri hundza hi le mapurasini ya valungu ku ya hlangana ni leri humaka hi le Phalaborwa na Letsitele ri ya Giyani.

Patu leri i khale ri cheriwile xikontiri kambe loko ri fika laha ku tshamaka vantima, xikontiri xi cheriwile ku gimeta entsindza wa le ka vukosi bya ka Valoyi. Hi navela leswaku patu leri ri hetisiwa xikontiri hi mfumo wa xifundha. Ndzi hoyozela mfumo eka ku antswisiwa ka patu leri fikaka le ntsindza le ka hosikazi Modjadji wa Vunthlanu le Northern Province. Patu leri ra ha ku cheriwa xikontiri hi mali yo ringana R6 million. Mhaka leyi yi humelele loko khale ka Presidente wa tiko yen nkul. Nelson Mandela a endzerile le tikweni ra ka Modjadji. U swi vone xikan’we- kan’we leswaku ku pfumala ka mapatu ya kahle i maxangu man’wana eka tindhawu ta vantima.

Loko ndhambi ya mpfula yi na, a ku na xikolo. Vanhu a va swi koti ku fika emintirhweni hambi eswibedhlele hikuva tindhawu toleto a ti fambeki. Mabiloho na wona minkarhi yin’wanyana ya khukhuriwile. Xikombiso xa ku antswisiwa ka patu leri swi tshikelela hilaha Mfumo lowu wu tiyimiseleke ku antswisa vutomi bya vanhu. I mfumo lowu rhangeriweke hi ANC wu nga endlaka swoleswo. Hi navela leswaku mpimanyeto wa Mfumo wa le xikarhi na wa swifundha wu engeteleriwa ku ya emahlweni.

Ndzi navela no hoyozela ndzawulo ya xifundha xa Northern Province eka ku saseka ka patu ra Pietersburg na Lydenburg.

Ndzi seketela Mpimanyeto lowu. [Ku phokotela.] (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[A better life for all. During the apartheid period access roads to black communities were neglected. They were not tarred, but most access roads that passed through white farms were tarred. For example, there is a road in the Northern Province, in the Ritavi district, which is an access road to Tarentaal crossing farms belonging to whites adjacent to the Phalaborwa and Letsitele road to Giyani.

This road was tarred long ago but it was tarred up to Chief Valoyi’s kraal only. We would like to see this road completed and tarred by the provincial government. I would also like to congratulate the government on the upgrading of the access road to the Rain Queen Modjadji V in the Northern Province. This road was recently tarred at a cost of R6 million. This happened during the time when the former state president Mr Nelson Mandela visited the Modjadji area. He suddenly realised that the shortage of good roads was a serious problem in black communities.

When heavy rains fall, school programmes come to a standstill. People are unable to reach their places of work or even hospitals because such roads are not usable. Bridges are sometimes washed away. The upgrading of this road emphasises the way in which the Government is prepared to improve people’s lives. It is the ANC-led Government that can manage to do that. We wish that the provincial and central government budgets should be increased continuously.

I would like to congratulate the Department of Works in the Northern Province for the construction of a beautiful road between Pietersburg and Lydenburg. I support this budget. [Applause.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, may I first recognise my Kgosi from Madikwe in the North West, Kgosi Sefanyetso, seated right up there. Thank you.

The Department of Transport has a great responsibility to ensure that the nation moves safely from one point to the next. In order to be seen to be delivering a service, the department has to provide roads. As matters stand, some 20% of nontolled roads are in a state of disrepair and, if no reconstruction is mounted soon, 71% of roads will be in a similar or worse condition by 2005. It needs a really skilful driver to navigate a motor vehicle through the potholes, and such conditions on our roads are a recipe for accidents and reduce motor vehicles to wrecks.

The national, provincial and local roads continue to decline as a result of insufficient funding from the Government for the maintenance, repair and upgrading of these roads. Even the Minister has just stated that, were it not for the private sector, the picture would be grimmer.

There has been much talk about the curbing of violence in the taxi industry. Yet people continue to die like flies as a result of violence associated with taxis. Taxi ranks have turned into bloodbaths. The situation in Umtata in the Eastern Cape, Diepsloot and Orange Farm in Gauteng and Zeerust in the North West province are examples of continued bloodletting. The closure of ranks, as is the case at Diepkloof and Orange Farm, results in more problems as commuters lumber up the roads without any alternative transport, as the promised buses do not turn up in time.

The issue of taxi recapitalisation keeps receding like a mirage. Newly designed vehicles, 18 to 35 seaters, were suppose to hit the road in October last year, but up to this point there is no sign of the replacement of the 126 000 taxis. The R3 billion which was approved last year has, according to the Minister this afternoon, risen to R4 billion. This means that it will keep on rising the more the whole exercise is delayed. There has to be faster movement in this direction.

Buses continue to be involved in accidents and kill people, and this in spite of the 100 km/h speed limit imposed on such vehicles. Such accidents can be attributed to speeding and nonvisibility of traffic officers, as well as ineffective checks by these officers. They allow these dirty, rickety and unroadworthy mobile mass coffins to travel on public roads and cause death.

What incenses me is that some of the buses belong to companies that receive subsidies from Government, while others, such as the North West Star, are owned by Government. Yet poor commuters are essentially left without help. In winter they are exposed to the cold, as windows on some of these buses are broken. If it rains they virtually have to use umbrellas in the buses. Yet top employees, executives and directors of these bus companies draw huge salaries and drive top-of-the-range German saloons, while buses are not being maintained and thus cause accidents. [Time expired.]

Mr S K LOUW: Madam Speaker, one of the key aspects in the President’s state of the nation address was integrated rural development, which can, no doubt, be married with an integrated transport system.

Public transport in our country is dominated by disparities in the previous spacial development, which was the cornerstone of the apartheid regime. Because of this displacement black people are the ones who travel long distances to points of economic production and are therefore vulnerable to changes or reductions in public transport benefits such as subsidies.

Existing public transport in urban areas is not adequately integrated with working-class suburbs, making travel costly and time-consuming. Our country needs an integrated transport solution, which will set up a platform for the sustainable development of freight and passenger solutions. We need to come up with innovative partnerships between and amongst transport modes to meet the demands of user needs and the broader community.

Only an integrated transport system will succeed in measuring and capturing the full economic value of our transport system. We can only then match our capital outlays with transport users’ demands, and we will also be able to address the inefficiencies and disparities. We also seek to have a freight rail network which is efficient, sustainable and better able to compete with road freight an thus enhance export competitiveness. The internalisation of external costs will then become of importance in reflecting the cost of transport activities, which should be set on a competitive platform.

We must make our passenger and commuter rail transport sustainable to such an extent that it retains the ability to provide low-cost travelling alternatives to the poor. The intention of the Department of Transport to further support intermodel and multimodel transport by influencing the planning of special land use through the National Land Transport Transition Act, needs to be applauded.

It is transport policies like these that will rewrite the defective plans of the old apartheid regime and bring about a renewal in our transport programmes. It is a process like this that will enhance all transport modes in order to build a better country and ensure a better life for all. The development of our roads construction will also create an opportunity for tackling major problems like unemployment and road safety, especially in rural areas, where the highest rate of pedestrian fatalities occurs. It will ensure and attract a safe environment for our tourists.

An integrated transport system will only be effective if the current intelligent transport systems are brought on board to assist in data collecting through fair ticketing, transport tracking systems, weigh-in- motion techniques and search and rescue mechanisms which will benefit road users, suppliers of transport policies and decision-makers.

Another issue is to make sure that the regulatory environment is one which empowers customers and enables operators to respond to customers. We are always shocked by the grim toll of death and injury on our roads. I have therefore been forced to do research to analyse some of these major fatalities on our roads, especially when it comes to buses. There are stringent regulations on bus safety, but again it is the enforcement of these codes that is extremely lax. The department has to jack up its safety measures. There are serious weaknesses and gaps that need to be filled.

We need to ask this question: Why should buses be sent for inspection only once a year? Is it not about time to re-examine this kind of regulation? Why can they not be tested and issued with roadworthy certificates every six months, or before they undertake a long-distance trip? Testing stations have become a burning focus point. Corruption at these stations is a normal part of the procedure nowadays. They do not comply with the necessary requirements stipulated by the SA Bureau of Standards. It is shocking to think that a vehicle might not even go to the testing station, but its roadworthy certificate is a certainty if a bottle of brandy can be provided, as is the case in Potchefstroom where I live. This kind of corruption must be rooted out immediately.

I want to compliment and support our MEC, Mr Frans Vilakazi, who took bold steps to close down some of these stations in the North West. The MEC for transport in Gauteng, Comrade Mosunkutu, also took the same serious step of clamping down on these stations. Our Government should not hesitate to take these actions against such testing stations. According to the Auditor- General’s report, approximately 95% of the recommendations were not implemented. A driver’s licence that was issued was contrary to the prescriptions of the Act. Such licences are therefore void and have to cancelled. If such drivers should be involved in an accident, it could have serious legal consequences for the state.

Mevrou die Speaker, die lewens van elke pendelaar op treine, busse, taxis of vliegtuie is vir ons kosbaar. Die lewensverliese is te groot en drastiese stappe om die tekortkominge reg te stel, is van kardinale belang. Ek wil die Minister en sy departement komplimenteer vir die suksesvolle pogings wat hulle aangewend het om die slagting op die paaie te voorkom.

Ek wil ‘n pleidooi rig aan alle bestuurders en passasiers: Stel die veiligheid van elke burger eerste. Bestuur versigtig, sonder enige steurnis van selfone en dies meer. Laat ons die erns om ons paaie te beveilig ‘n nasionale poging van elke burger maak om sodoende die taak van die verkeerspolisie te vergemaklik. Dit sal ons nie vandag help om te kom kla soos die agb Odendaal nie. Hy dink soos ‘n volstruis met sy kop in die sand. Ons gaan voorwaarts en ons haak nie vas soos ‘n langspeelplaat wat elke keer hier by die podium kom kla, kom kla, kom kla - en hy gaan nie voort nie.

Dit is tyd vir die opposisie om te besef dat ons is besig met transformasie. As hulle nie die beleid van transformasie verstaan nie, moet hulle dit gaan leer, veral wat die beteken en hoe dit ingestel gaan word. Dit gaan baie kos, want die apartheidswortels is baie, baie diep gesaai. Dit gaan ‘n massiewe taak wees om dit reg te stel. [Tussenwerpsels.] Baie dankie vir die regstelling: Dit is baie diepgewortel. [Tyd verstreke.][Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Madam Speaker, the lives of all commuters on trains, buses, taxis or aeroplanes are precious to us. The loss of life is too great and drastic steps to rectify the shortcomings are of the utmost importance. I want to compliment the Minister and his department for the successful efforts they have applied to prevent the carnage on our roads.

I want to appeal to all drivers and passengers: Put the safety of citizens first. Drive carefully, without any interference from cell phones and the like. Let us make the effort to secure our roads, a national effort of each and every citizen in order to ease the task of the traffic police. Today it will not help us to complain as the hon Odendaal is now doing. He thinks like an ostrich with his head in the sand. We are going forward and we do not, like a longplaying record that is stuck, come to complain, complain, complain - and he does not go any further. It is time for the opposition to realise that we are engaged in transformation. If they do not understand the policy of transformation, they must go and learn it, especially what it means and how it will be implemented. It will take a lot of effort because the apartheid roots are buried very deep. It will be a massive task to rectify it. [Interjections.] Thank you very much for the correction: It is deeply rooted. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, Minister, our country has been blessed with a wonderful set of roads that were previously designed to make life comfortable for one section of the community. The Minister and the Department of Transport must be congratulated on providing roads and infrastructure for the most disadvantaged people over these few years.

In our province, our provincial MEC, the hon J S Ndebele, is doing wonderful work. Our transport infrastructure is the lifeblood of our nation, and therefore road maintenance and the provision of new roads are important. Moreover, our country has to ensure safety on our roads. Cognisance must be taken of the fact that the transportation of goods on our roads has increased from 400 operators in 1998 to 4 000 in 2001. Approximately 80% of the bulk of freight transported in South Africa is conveyed by road. In this respect the MF compliments the hon the Minister for the high priority given to regulation and safety. Greater expansion on a firm basis already commenced in 1994. We are pleased to note that the department has planned 20 major roads, totalling R5 billion, for the next two years, and this will also contribute to the economy.

The Minister must be complimented for the discipline that has been brought into the taxi industry, in spite of the occasional problems. More than half of the 2,4 million passengers in the urban areas rely on the taxi industry. In respect of replacing the ageing taxi fleet, may I suggest that the hon the Minister also look at India Away. The Bhadhjaj and Tata group have already commenced providing services in South Africa.

As compared to the past, it has been noted that one of the top performers within the Transnet group has been SAA. It is important for the country that the issue around the severance package given to the former SAA boss be settled. There are allegations and counterallegations on which the Minister of Trade and Industry has also commented. Temperatures are rising, and the MF suggests that things be cooled down and the country be given the facts. It was reported over the weekend that British Airways, which is six times larger than SAA, paid its MD far less.

The MF wishes the hon the Minister of Transport well, and on behalf of KwaZulu-Natal I appeal for more funds for KwaZulu-Natal. The MF supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Madam Speaker, Comrade Minister, comrades and hon members …

… zonke izinsuku izinkulungwane zabantu zihamba ngojantshi ukuya emsebenzini. Basebenzisa isitimela ngoba asibizi kakhulu futhi siyashesha. Isitimela sibiza ngaphansi kuka-50% uma sisiqhathanisa netekisi noma ibhasi. [Ubuwelewele.] [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[… every day thousands of people travel by rail when they go to work. They travel by train because it is not too expensive and it is quick. The train costs less than 50% of the fare of buses and taxis. [Interjections.] [Applause.]]

The market share captured by Metrorail in 1999-2000 was only 18%, compared to 15% for buses and 60% for taxis. This is partly because commuter rail provides limited access to commuters as only sections of our cities are serviced by rail, with large sections of our cities having no access to rail facilities. I want to inform both Dr Odendaal and Mr Farrow that this is due to the poor planning policies of the past.

As our city roads become more congested, we need to find ways of moving traffic off our roads. Commuter rail can provide some of the solutions. It is fast, cheaper for commuters and environmentally friendly. A recent Cabinet decision to support a shift in traffic from road to rail and to level the playing field must be applauded. This is yet another decision which confirms that the ANC-led Government is on the right track.

Recently, the portfolio committee undertook a number of visits to rail lines in Cape Town, Pretoria and Johannesburg. During these visits, we were able to interact with both commuters and management and staff at Metrorail and the SARCC and gained a better understanding of the commuter rail experience. The message we received from commuters was that rail was the cheapest form of transport and that it was also fast and convenient. They also expressed frustration at frequent delays, the condition of trains, the lack of communication and the inadequate safety measures in trains. But, at the same time, they all felt that if solutions to the problems being experienced could be found, many more commuters would make use of trains. These members should listen, and then they would find out why.

We were informed by management that the delays were more often than not caused by vandalism. Acts of vandalism included the stealing of doors and window frames from coaches and the theft of overhead cables. More recently, signal systems have been targeted and braking systems on trains tampered with. This results in the sometimes poor condition of coaches which need to be withdrawn for repairs, leading to delays due to an insufficient supply of coaches.

The theft of cables, signals and tampering with braking systems often results in the complete standstill of the rail service. This was the case recently on the Naledi line in Johannesburg. A total of 86 signal systems were stolen, leaving some 300 000 commuters stranded. Much of the theft which takes place is clearly carried out by organised crime syndicates and in some instances seems to be deliberate sabotage. Although there have been successes in arresting many of these criminals, more needs to be done and will be done by this Government.

According to commuters, some of the private security firms hired to provide security and safety on our trains do not always perform. In some cases, security guards sit in the first-class carriages and refuse to respond to calls from commuters being harassed and sometimes robbed of their possessions. We call on the security firms to do the work that they have been hired to do. At the same time, Metrorail should terminate the services of those who do not perform.

The ageing of the rail infrastructure also causes delays. This is due to the lack of adequate financing over the last 15 to 20 years. The last new rail coach was purchased in 1988 and the last commuter rail line was built in 1984. I want to inform Mr Farrow and Dr Odendaal that they need to understand that this is the state of the infrastructure that we inherited. They should stop pretending that South Africa only started to exist in

1. There was a South Africa before 1994. [Applause.]

Of particular concern is the impact on commuters when there are train delays. We have heard of commuters who have received final warnings and in certain cases have lost their jobs. We call on employers to be more sympathetic and to verify train delays when their staff are late. We also call on Metrorail to do everything possible to reduce the number of delays which take place and to set up an effective communication machine with the business sector.

While these are some of the challenges for which solutions need to be found, a number of programmes are under way which will help to promote the use of rail and provide the commuter with an improved and attractive mode of transport. An ongoing programme of station upgrades is being undertaken by Intersite. Many of these include the building of shopping centres, taxis and bus shelters as well as the building of cubicles for emerging entrepreneurs so that they can start to trade in a decent and protected environment. At many of these stations, an increase in commuters has been seen.

The refurbishment of coaches is under way. A programme to upgrade the signalling system, which is on average 40 years old, is being undertaken. Rail transport is a much safer form of transport than road transport. Last year, there were some 350 deaths in train accidents compared to thousands on our roads. A train comprising 12 coaches can accommodate an average of 1 700 commuters, while around 121 taxis would be required to transport the same number of people.

The city of Stockholm, which was facing severe traffic congestion on its roads, decided to promote the use of rail. Train lines were built to link up with metro lines. In certain instances, new rail lines were built alongside highways and they saw decreases in traffic as commuters moved from road to rail transport.

Whilst we see limited funds being made available for rail in this budget, we look forward to seeing more funds being allocated in the coming years. We should also understand that there are other equally pressing needs in our country because of the state of the country we inherited in 1994. Members should please remember this. We have an infrastructure and we need to make it work and see it being used to maximum capacity. I am confident that under the leadership of Minister Omar this will happen.

Ekugcineni, ngithi ngifisa ukududuza imindeni yalabo abangu-13 abashona ngomhla ka-4 Juni e-DF Malan. [Ihlombe.] [In conclusion, I would like to sympathise with the families of the 13 people who died on 4 June at DF Malan. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Speaker and hon members, the wise thing to do would be to ignore the hot air which emanated from certain parts of this House. It is unhelpful. We should rather concentrate on discussing the problems that we face. The DA is not interested in solving problems. Not only this, they are bent on obstructing progress, as members have heard this afternoon. So let us ignore the hot air and concentrate on the many problems for which they are responsible.

The hon Odendaal is very angry because a few days ago I said he was a relic of the past. I said that there was a difference between Pretoria and Cape Town. In Pretoria the statue of Strijdom crashed to the ground, and that was a relic of the past. I said that right here in this Parliament we have a living relic of the past. Maybe Parliament has also become a museum. But I suspect that he is also angry and bitter because we are determined to take steps against overloading. My eyesight is poor but I think that he contributes to the overloading problem. But let us be serious. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

There are a number of very important issues. The first is that there are budgetary problems. Many members who participated in this discussion referred to these budgetary problems. We do have budgetary problems. As I said in my initial input, we need more allocations to address some of the serious problems of underfunding, which began not in 1994, but more than a decade before that. That underfunding has to be dealt with.

The matter has been raised, but there are competing demands. We have very serious housing problems, problems of a lack of schools and problems of a lack of facilities for our people. There are very many problems that we need to address. I want to remind the hon member Odendaal that transport is just one of the issues that we have to address. This is not just an ANC Government. Maybe the majority in this Government is ANC, but the hon Minister Buthelezi, who is sitting here, is not an ANC member, and yet he is a leading member of Government. [Interjections.]

Dr W A ODENDAAL: The ANC is dominating him.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: I think he is insulting the hon the Minister.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: If the Nats could not dominate me, how can they? [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: This problem goes back many years. The legacy of apartheid is still with us. Some people do not want to understand that. They want to close their eyes. Why do they want to close their eyes? It is because they were responsible for that! [Applause.] So we accept that there are some competing demands, and I work on the basis that I will not always get the allocation that I want. Other Ministers work on a similar basis, and we do not try to palm off the responsibilities on one another. [Interjections.] They should ask themselves, as I do in my department: What can we do to relieve some of the burdens that we have and deal with the budgetary problems?

Of course, there are some hon members on that side of the House who did not care to listen, but if they did, they would recall that I dealt with the matter of funding and of finding alternative funding in my address. For example, I said that we are looking at tolling as a way of addressing the problem. But this does not mean that one can toll every road. There are no arbitrary decisions with regard to the tolling of roads. What we are doing in Government, in the National Road Agency and at provincial government level is to look at the objects that the roads serve. Some roads serve a predominantly economic purpose, others serve a predominantly social purpose. There are roads which serve both social and economic purposes. Sometimes there are no alternative roads. Those criteria should be taken into account. Where roads serve a predominantly economic purpose and alternative roads are available to local populations so that their social needs can be addressed, then that kind of road would be a candidate for tolling. That is the criterion that we must address.

There are discussions going on between national and provincial governments. The hon Farrow, of course, does not know it, but there are discussions with regard to national Government taking over more roads which are not classified as national roads at present. But it is not just a matter for national Government to decide; this has to be done in consultation with provincial government and sometimes with local government, especially with the new unicities which have now arisen. Those are big issues arising from many problems which we have inherited and which are being addressed. But they are not going to be solved overnight.

The hon Odendaal referred to my saying that our roads are the best in the world. What I did say was that our national roads are amongst the best in the world. That is internationally recognised to be the case. But we do have problems with regard to many other roads, and we are not closing our eyes to these problems.

With regard to public passenger transport - if I could turn to another subject - I did not deal with bus transport in my address due to lack of time, but that is a matter receiving attention. In fact, under the National Land Transport Transition Act, a number of steps have already been taken. Many of the big companies have agreed - and I am happy that we can do things through consensus - to transform the lifelong permits to five-year permits. Of course, there is a price to be paid. Some compromises have been made, but we are moving over away from these lifelong permits to tendered contracts which will be awarded at five-yearly intervals.

Secondly, in the bus industry we have taken steps to end the monopoly which exists and to open the industry to small bus operators, particularly those from the historically disadvantaged sector. [Applause.] That process is taking place right here in the Western Cape and in other provinces, and over the next few years, more of our people, the historically excluded, will be participating in the bus industry. [Applause.] What is more, in terms of the arrangements that are now being developed, the taxi industry will be involved in the bus industry as well. That is why we are moving towards 35-seater taxis so as to make it possible for taxi operators to move into the bus sector as well.

Historically, there is a sharp division between the minibus taxi industry, which has always been a stepchild of the system, and the bus industry. What we are doing now is to create an integrated transport system so that we have a minibus taxi industry and a bus industry with greater movement and flexibility. They can then move into it themselves. All this is part of empowerment.

But we also recognise that trains are very important because they are safer. Trains will resolve many other problems. This will relieve the burden on our roads. That is why we are looking at infrastructure, at the rolling stock and at the signalling system in improving our stations. There are many other examples which I cannot cite at this time.

Lastly, let me indicate that the taxi processes are on course. I know there is violence. I know that there are problems that arise from day to day and that those problems cannot just be solved overnight. But they are being addressed. The big problem is policing. Hon members referred to some aspects of policing. Some referred to traffic policing and others referred to railway policing. But with regard to the taxi industry, there are problems with policing at stations, on trains and on our roads.

In transport there is a big problem in relation to policing. Cabinet discussed this matter less than a week ago, and there is consultation taking place between ourselves and the SA Police Service and with Minister Steve Tshwete so that we address transport policing issues generally. Hopefully, we can begin to come up with a blueprint and a solution which we can implement on an incremetal basis.

I should like to thank hon members very much. I thought this was a lively interaction, but it was all in the spirit of democracy. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 18:57. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        FRIDAY, 15 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: (1) The Minister of Home Affairs on 7 June 2001 submitted a draft of the Immigration Bill, 2001, as well as a memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social Services by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Education and to the Select Committee on Education and Recreation:


     (a)     Government Notice No 50 published in Government Gazette No
          21996 dated 2 February 2001, Regulations relating to the
          provisioning of educator posts within a provincial department
          of education and its institutions and departments offices,
          made in terms of the Employment of Educators Act, 1998 (Act No
          76 of 1998).


     (b)     Government Notice No 106 published in Government Gazette
          No 22001 dated 2 February 2001, Approval for the extension of
          the experimental status of the pilot programme, health and
          community care in technical colleges, made in terms of
          National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).


     (c)     Government Notice No 107 published in Government Gazette
          No 22001 dated 2 February 2001, Approval for the extension of
          the experimental status of the pilot programme, hospitality
          studies in schools and technical colleges, made in terms of
          National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).


     (d)     Government Notice No 259 published in Government Gazette
          No 22154 dated 20 March 2001, Call for nomination to fill two
          vacancies, made in terms of the South African Qualifications
          Authority Act, 1995 (Act No 58 of 1995).


     (e)     Government Notice No 415 published in Government Gazette
          No 22154 dated 20 March 2001, National Policy regarding
          Further Education and Training Programme: Approval of
          adjustments to the Economic Higher and Standard Grade Core
          Syllabi for Grade 12, made in terms of the National Education
          Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).


     (f)     Government Notice No 416 published in Government Gazette
          No 22154 dated 20 March 2001, Approval of an amendment to the
          aggregate for Senior Certificate candidates offering technical
          college instructional offerings as part of the programmes,
          made in terms of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act
          No 27 of 1996).


     (g)     Government Notice No 417 published in Government Gazette
          No 22154 dated 20 March 2001, National Policy regarding
          Further Education and Training Programmes: Approval of the
          drafting and documentation of the National Education Policy
          regarding the Gauteng Youth College Programme, made in terms
          of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of
          1996).


 (2)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Health and to the Select Committee on Social Services:


     (a)     Government Notice No R.127 published in Government Gazette
          No 22052 dated 12 February 2001, Regulations in terms of the
          Allied Health Professions Act, 1982, made in terms of section
          38 of the Allied Health Professions Act, 1982 (Act No 63 of
          1982).


     (b)     Government Notice No R.266 published in Government Gazette
          No 22157 dated 26 March 2001, Correction to the Government
          Notice No R.127 of 12 February 2001, made in terms of the
          Allied Health Professions Act, 1982 (Act No 63 of 1982).


     (c)     Government Notice No R.44 published in Government Gazette
          No 21983 dated 19 January 2001, Regulations relating to
          registration as a dental technician and related matters:
          Amendment, made in terms of section 50 of the Dental
          Technicians Act, 1979 (Act No 19 of 1979).


     (d)     Government Notice No R.156 published in Government Gazette
          No 22076 dated 23 February 2001, Regulations regarding the
          registration and training of Student Dental Technicians and
          Student Dental Technologists, made in terms of section 50 of
          the Dental Technicians Act, 1979 (Act No 19 of 1979).


     (e)     Government Notice No R.253 published in Government Gazette
          No 22148 dated 23 March 2001, Regulations relating to
          registration as a Dental Technician and related matters:
          Amendment, made in terms of section 50 of the Dental
          Technicians Act, 1979 (Act No 19 of 1979).


     (f)     Government Notice No R.43 published in Government Gazette
          No 21983 dated 19 January 2001, Regulations regarding
          processed foodstuffs, made in terms of section 15(1) of the
          Foodstuffs, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54
          of 1972).


     (g)     Government Notice No R.239 published in Government Gazette
          No 22133 dated 19 January 2001, Regulations relating to salt,
          made in terms of section 15(1) of the Foodstuffs, Cosmetics
          and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of 1972).


     (h)     Government Notice No R.366 published in Government Gazette
          No 22258 dated 4 May 2001, Regulations governing the labelling
          of foodstuffs obtained through certain techniques of genetic
          modification, made in terms of section 15(1) of the
          Foodstuffs, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54
          of 1972).


     (i)     Government Notice No R.228 published in Government Gazette
          No 22133 dated 16 March 2001, Regulations defining the scope
          of the Profession of Optometry, made in terms of section 33(1)
          of the Health Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).


     (j)     Government Notice No R.229 published in Government Gazette
          No 22133 dated 16 March 2001, List of approved health
          facilities for the purposes of performing community service by
          dentists in the year 2001-2002, made in terms of Regulation
          5.1 of the Regulations relating to Performance of Community
          Service by the profession of dentists.


     (k)     Government Notice No R.237 published in Government Gazette
          No 22133 dated 16 March 2001, Regulations relating to
          qualifications for registration of assistant clinical
          technologists and registration of persons qualified outside
          the Republic, made in terms of section 61(1), read with
          sections 24 and 25 of the Health Professions Act, 1974 (Act No
          56 of 1974).


     (l)     Government Notice No R.251 published in Government Gazette
          No 22148 dated 23 March 2001, Regulations relating to
          qualifications for registration of clinical technologists and
          registration of persons qualified outside the Republic, made
          in terms of section 61(1), read with sections 24 and 25 of the
          Health Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).


     (m)     Government Notice No R.394 published in Government Gazette
          No 22284 dated 18 May 2001, List of approved facilities for
          the purposes of performing community service by medical
          practitioners in the year 2002, made in terms of Regulation
          5.1 of the Regulations relating to Performance of Community
          Service by persons registering in terms of the Health
          Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).


     (n)     Government Notice No 407 published in Government Gazette
          No 22291 dated 14 May 2001, Nominations for representatives to
          serve on the Board of the National Health Laboratory Service
          (NHLS), made in terms of section 8(2) of the National Health
          Laboratory Service Act, 2000 (Act No 37 of 2000).


     (o)     Government Notice No R.395 published in Government Gazette
          No 22284 dated 18 May 2001, List of approved facilities for
          the purposes of performing community service by pharmacists in
          the year 2002, made in terms of Regulation 3 of the
          Regulations relating to Performance of Pharmaceutical
          Community Services.


     (p)     Proclamation No R.16 published in Government Gazette No
          22052 dated 12 February 2001, Commencement of the
          Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied Health Service
          Professions Second Amendment Act, 2000 (Act No 50 of 2000)
          from 12 February 2001.


     (q)     Proclamation No 30 published in Government Gazette No
          22287 dated 11 May 2001, Commencement of certain sections of
          the National Health Laboratory Service Act, 2000 (Act No 37 of
          2000) from 10 May 2001.


     (r)     Government Notice No 414 published in Government Gazette
          No 22293 dated 14 May 2001, Publication of Explanatory Summary
          of the National Laboratory Service Amendment Bill, 2001.


 (3)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance and to the Select Committee on Finance:


     (a)     Government Notice No R.349 published in the Government
          Gazette No 22219 dated 9 April 2001, Public Finance Management
          Act, 1999: Treasury Regulations, made in terms of 76 of the
          Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999).


     (b)     Government Notice No R.357 published in the Government
          Gazette No 22248 dated 20 April 2001, Designation of an
          institution of which the activities do not fall within the
          meaning of "the business of a bank" ("Ithala Development
          Finance Corporation Limited" formerly known as "KwaZulu
          Finance and Investment Corporation Limited").


     (c)     Government Notice No R.303 published in the Government
          Gazette No 22234 dated 26 April 2001, Appointment of an
          authorised dealer in foreign exchange, made in terms of
          Paragraph 3(a) of the Government Notice No R.1112 of 1
          December 1961.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
     Vote 9 - Defence, Trading Account for Medical Stock for 1999-2000
     and the Performance Audit on Naval Dockyard Simon's Town [RP 118-
     2000].


 (2)    The Financial and Fiscal Commission's Submission on the Division
     of Revenue for 2002-2003.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Report and Financial Statements of the National Gambling Board for 1999-
 2000, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 1999-2000.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Report of the Independent Electoral Commission regarding the Management
 and Administration of the Represented Political Parties' Fund for 1998-
 99, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements of the Represented Political Parties' Fund for 1998-99 [RP
 46-2001]. COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises on Visit to UK, dated 21 February 2001:

 The Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, having visited the
 United Kingdom (London) from 1 to 8 July 2000, reports as follows:


 A.  Introduction


     1.  Delegation


          The delegation consisted of Mr S T Belot, chairperson; Mr S L
          E Fenyane (chairperson of the NCOP Select Committee on Labour
          and Public Enterprises); Ms N D Ngcengwane; Mr V G Smith; Mr
          B A D Martins; Ms R Taljaard; Mr M D Msomi; Dr W A Odendaal;
          Mr C T Frolick; Mrs E N Lubidla; Ms B N Dlulane; Mr L G Lever;
          Mr J Horne; and Mr T C Thisani (Committee Secretary).
     2.  Purpose of visit


          The Committee was invited by the Defence and Diversification
          Agency (DDA) to visit and inspect its operations. The DDA is a
          subsidiary of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency
          (DERA). The DDA is part of DERA, created by the British
          government to encourage, foster and facilitate the cross-
          fertilisation of technology transfer between civil and defence
          sectors. Their operations bear resemblance to those of Denel
          in South Africa. The visit helped to compare the programs of
          the DDA to the South African restructuring programme, with
          special comparison to Denel.


 B.  Visit to DERA Farnborough - 3 July 2000


     The delegation was accompanied by Mr John Owen of DERA, and met by
     Prof D McDonnel, Director of the DDA.


     1.  Presentation - DDA and DERA


          (1) DERA


              DERA is the primary source of technological advice and
              support to the Ministry of Defence. It is currently
              managing assets worth one billion pounds and employs 11
              000 people. One of their major activities is defence
              procurement programmes. In addition to its mission,
              DERA's considerable research and development facilities
              are being made available through the DDA to support UK
              wealth and job creation.


              Through DERA, the UK Defence Force has invented a great
              number of the world's leading edge technologies. Although
              the inventions have been successfully innovated by
              technology transfer (along the defence equipment value
              chain), considerable wealth and job creation
              opportunities have been missed through insufficient
              innovation (along the civil sector value chain). A
              conservative estimate of the missed business value is
              about 100 billion pounds.
          (2) DDA


              The DDA has been created to promote the interchange of
              technology originating from either the defence or civil
              sector for maximum value extraction through innovation in
              both sectors. Getting the most out of defence technology
              is the DDA's mission.


              The three main aims of the DDA are the following:


              (a) To encourage the widest exploitation possible in the
                   civil sector of defence technology.


              (b) To provide information on defence equipment
                   procurements and trends in order to inform the
                   defence industry's own diversification planning.


              (c) To facilitate sector spin-in to military programmes.


              The British government realises that the key to success
              is greater co-operation between science and business. The
              virtuous cycle, of science to invention to innovation to
              business and back to new market-driven science, is
              spiralling in continuous innovation.


              One of the areas the DDA can be proud of, is technology
              transfer. The following examples serve to illustrate that
              view:


              Power transistors


              DERA has provided a competitive edge to the existing
              technology. The power transistor is capable of 50% more
              power and 25% more bandwidth than the current transistor.


              "Sea Machine"


              DERA technology has assisted the design and development
              of high powered marine vessels, with a focus on efficient
              hull design, material strength, small arms weapon
              protection and stealth. The DDA is assisting in the
              transfer of this technology for police, coastguard and
              military roles.


              Car security


              They are using DERA's world-class expertise in the field
              of voice recognition systems to revolutionise car
              security. This technology will replace keys with speech
              patterns.


              Marine industry


              The DDA is helping several SMEs in the marine market.
              This includes projects using defence technology -


              *   for artificial weather instrumentation on luxury
                   yachts;


              *   to develop forward-looking sonar for wreck detection;
                   and


              *   to assist in the design of commercial underwater
                   vehicles.


              Water filtration


              DERA and a Hampshire-based SME is working on a mobile
              water filtration system. The aim is to develop a system
              for transportation on a Land Rover or a similar vehicle.
              DERA is assisting with the chemical components of the
              process.


              TyreSafe


              TyreSafe is a remarkable new puncture sealant system,
              using rubber and non-toxic biodegradable chemicals to
              provide a powerful, safe and permanent sealing. With
              obvious benefits to the Ministry of Defence and the UK
              Armed Forces, the DDA has assisted in the transfer of
              this technology to Defence.


              Flat-panel Speakers


              This technology will help reduce the size of speakers
              without reducing output.


     2.  Presentation by Mr K C McLean (PMC Business Group) on
          Tradewinds


          Mr McLean emphasised that this initiative was not government
          policy, but an initiative that could be developed further
          through co-operation with the South African government. The
          initiative had its foundations in fourth generation
          technology. It focused on a wide range of activities that
          would ultimately filter down to SMEs. This would ensure that
          all partners win and also meet South Africa's special needs.


     3.  Presentation by Dr K Murphy on Concealed Weapon Detection
          DERA has developed a concealed weapon detection system which
          allowed operators to locate potential threats without arousing
          suspicion. Weapons such as guns and knives are fairly
          straightforward to hide on a person, and it is generally not
          practical, legal or safe for law enforcement officers to stop
          and search at will. This technology addresses this problem by
          allowing remote, covert, scanning of suspects. In this way the
          law enforcement officer is able to detect potential threats
          without arousing suspicion.


          The nature of the technology means that it cannot be detected
          by emission. The imagers can be hidden behind special
          surfaces, which are strong and visibly opaque but transparent
          to Passive Millimetre Wave Imaging (PMMW). This allows the
          imagers to be concealed in vehicles or behind false walls.


          DERA is prepared to negotiate technology transfer on this
          system with South Africa. Permission can be sought to provide
          the equipment in South Africa via an offset route. At the
          moment only two countries have the capability of producing the
          system.


 C.  Visit to GKN Wesland on 4 July 2000 - host: J Falkner


     GKN is a privately-owned company that was initially involved in
     the manufacturing of cars. It is the 50th biggest company in the
     world and operates in over 40 countries. The annual turnover is
     about three billion pounds. The industry employs 33 000 people in
     its subsidiary companies and a further 11 000 in associated
     companies.


     GKN would like Denel to be a partner, and detailed discussions are
     taking place. Integrated project teams are currently thrashing out
     details. The teams are equipped with different expertise such as
     finance manufacturing. This will result in what is usually termed
     "smart procurement".


     1.  Super Lynx 300


          South Africa is in discussion with GKN on the possibility of
          buying Lynx helicopters. The negotiations also include the
          possibility of South Afria being a major supplier of Lynx
          parts to Nigeria and other countries. The advantages of
          employing Lynx services are the following:


          (1) It extends the range of naval influence in operational
              waters by a factor of 10.


          (2) It will enable the SANDF to enforce national and
              international law throughout its area of responsibility.


          (3) It can conduct day or night operations, including civil
              search and rescue, in massive seawater swells.


     2.  Programme schedule


          The optimum period for manufacturing and commissioning Super
          Lynx, ready for service, is five years. This period is divided
          as follows:
          (1) Aircraft design and building activity (43 months).


          (2) Aircrew conversion training in UK (three months).


          (3) Delivery to South Africa (one month).


          (4) Test-flying development centre work (nine months).


          (5) Aircrew operational training (five months).


          (6) First operation to be embarked upon (one month).


     3.  Industrial participation (IP)


          GKN has an active IP programme and further potential to commit
          an industrial participation package, valued at 213 million
          pounds, consisting of the following:


          (1) National Industrial Participation - 163 million pounds


              This includes -


              (a) returnable transport packaging;


              (b) acquisition and refurbishment of existing facility,
                   including new exports;


              (c) export promotion in new EU markets;


              (d) Land Rover Defender chassis assembly;


              (e) establishment of heavy industrial service venture;


              (f) pallet and timber component export to the USA and
                   Europe;


              (g) timber component export to the USA;


              (h) steel procurement from Iscor and Special Steel
                   Minimill;


              (i) automotive technology transfer;


              (j) IP co-operation.


          (2) Defence industrial participation - 50 million pounds


              This includes -


              (a) subcontracting of helicopter structure manufacturing;




              (b) Lynx teaming agreement;


              (c) incorporation of LEO II FLIR and associated technical
                   transfer;


              (d) incorporation of South African Communication Suit and
                   ESM, and associated technology transfer;


              (e) technology transfer, training and logistical support
                   to South Africa Super Lynx equipment and services;


              (f) subcontracting of Ground Support Equipment
                   manufacture;


              (g) computer-based training technology transfer;


              (h) export promotion to South African Avionic Systems;


              (i) software procurement.


              (j) commitment to "black empowerment" aerospace
                   activities.


          (3) Integrated logistical support


              Tailored to meet the SANDF requirements, the support
              programme will provide the following:


              (a) Cost-effective life cycle support.


              (b) Maximisation of aircraft availability, both ashore
                   and at sea.


              (c) Product support supply for life of the helicopter.


          (4) Financing package


              The financing package that will be made available through
              Barclays Bank and the UK government, provides for the
              inclusion of the Lynx helicopter purchase. This package,
              approved by the Finance Minister, was a first
              comprehensive and completely flexible facility to be
              offered, and, hence, was used as a standard-setting
              benchmark. The principal features of the package are:


              (a) Minimal deposit.


              (b) Commencement repayment deferred to year five.
              (c) Long-term repayment (total tenure up to 20 years).


              (d) Low cost.


              (e) Free interest rate and currency options.


              (f) Option to spread currency risks.


              (g) Pre-payment option without penalty.


 D.  Visit to British Aerospace Systems (BAe) - 5 July 2000


     In attendance were Mr N Franks (BAe), Mr R Neil (BAe), Mr R Rue
     (BAe), Mr S Mcintyre (BAe) and Mr N Fisher (DESO).


     BAe was formed in 1977. Its core business involves system
     solutions and managing large and complicated programmes. There is
     no government involvement in the running of BAe, other than one
     pound special or golden share. A framework was there during its
     formation for the company to be run privately. The following are
     the milestones of BAe:


     1.  1977 - formed as a nationalised corporation by merger of
          British Aircraft Corporation, Hawker Siddeley Aviation, Hawker
          Siddeley Dynamics and Scottish Aviation.


     2.  1981 - formed as plc with assets of nationalised corporation
          HMG sell 51,57% of shares (with 15% shareholding limit).


     3.  1985 - HMG sell remaining shares (maintaining special one
          pound share to ensure UK control).


     4.  1987 - acquired newly privatised Royal Ordinance.


     BAe Systems operations are split, as follows:


     * Customer support   -   13%
     * Major programmmes  -   22%
     * International partnerships    -   12%
     * Commercial aircraft     -    23%
     * Avionics     -    8%
     * Electronics & software  -    12%
     * Operations   -    10%


     Benefits of privatisation


     * Incentives to much greater efficiency.
     * Access to private sector capital.
     * Form international partnerships.
     * Long-term perspective facilitates strategic planning.


     BAe maintains a presence in the USA, Europe and other countries.
     It is also involved in industrial participation in South Africa,
     and that kind of involvement is spreading to other parts of
     Africa.


 E.  Visit to Defence Export Services Organisation (DESO) - 6 July 2000


     In attendance (from DESO): Mr B J Teideman , Mr P Gareth, Mr M
     Murphy, Mr J Morrison and Mr J Hawkins (DERA).


     DESO is an integral part of the UK Ministry of Defence, that acts
     as a focal point within the British government for all defence
     export-related activities. Its mission is to maximise legitimate
     UK Defence export in co-ordination with industry. Its vision is to
     be the world's best government defence export organisation. DESO's
     role is to provide assistance to British Defence companies and to
     overseas customers interested in acquiring British Defence
     products. It can assist British companies involved in the export
     market in a number of ways, including -


     1.  briefing companies new to defence exporting;


     2.  bringing overseas customers and UK suppliers together;


     3.  advising UK firms on Defence market prospects on a worldwide,
          regional or country basis;


     4.  providing professional military advice and assistance in
          support of sales;


     5.  organising Defence exhibitions, inward missions and equipment
          demonstrations, both in the UK and overseas;


     6.  ensuring that overseas sales considerations are given due
          weight in the UK Minsitry of Defence's own procurement
          process;


     7.  providing advice on Defence export finance, reciprocal trade
          requirements and offsets;


     8.  negotiating and administering government-to-government sales;


     9.  offering worldwide advice on logistic support.


     Assistance to small and medium enterprises (SMEs)


     The full range of DESO assistance is available to SMEs. Within
     each of DESO's four Regional Marketing Directorates (RMD) there is
     a Small Business Focal Point (SBFP). The SBFPs act as liaison
     officers for SMEs to ensure that they are pointed in the right
     direction, that they receive an appropriate level of service and
     support from RMD desk officers and that their interests are
     represented to those travelling overseas and to DESO higher
     management. Within their respective RMDs the SBFPs provide general
     marketing advice for their regions, including the requirement for
     agents and translations.


     The delegation was also briefed by Mr B J Teideman on the aspects
     of offset programmes. In addition, the delegation had a chance to
     hold a meeting with the Defence Select Committee. A wide range of
     Defence-related issues were discussed.


 F.  Visit to Rolls Royce - 7 July 2000


     In attendance were Mr R Murphy (Rolls Royce); Mr P Burns-Wallace
     (Rolls Royce); and Mr J Hawkins (DERA).


     Rolls Royce is a 96-year-old company that specialises in the
     manufacturing of gas-turbine technology. It has already
     established leading positions in global markets and developed a
     broad and competitive range of products and services. Rolls Royce
     is divided into five major components - civil, defence, marine,
     energy and finance. It prides itself in -


     1.  managing long-term customer relationships;


     2.  world-class engineering;


     3.  systems integration;


     4. programme and product management;


     5. platform support and aftermarket services;


     6. predictive data management; and


     7. supply-chain management.


     Civil aerospace


     * Offering the broadest range of products.
     * Becoming a world leader in large engines.
     * Strong position in corporate and regional sector.
     * Expanded repair and overhaul activities.


     Defence aerospace


     * Strong mature business.
     * Well positioned on future programmes.
     * World leader in transport sector.


     Rolls Royce is a world leader in marine power systems, with a
     turnover of almost one billion pounds. It employs 8 000 people in
     33 countries. The following bear testimony to their success:


     * Equipment on over 20 000 vessels worldwide.
     * Manufacturing facilities in eight countries.
     * Powering 400 ships in 30 navies.
     * Over 2 300 customers worldwide.


     Energy


     * A global leader in oil and gas sectors.
     * Investing in products for power generation.
     * Unique industrial trent entering service.


     Financial Services


     * Growing contribution.
     * Engine leasing.
     * Aircraft leasing and management.
     * Power project development.
     * Customer finance support.
     * Excellent value creation.


     Rolls Royce in South Africa


     1.  South African Airways


          (1) South Africa operates a fleet of 6 x RB21-524-powered B747-
              400 aircrafts.


          (2) Rolls Royce is presently in an RB211-524 five-year engine
              overhaul campaign against GE, and a decision is imminent.


          (3) Rolls Royce has a good relationship with the SAA.


          (4) The RB211-524 engine operates well and the H-T performance
              has excelled within its design parameters.


     2.  Nationwide


          (1) Privately owned domestic airline - secured feeder
              agreement with Virgin Atlantic.


          (2) 10 x Spey-powered BAC 1-11's plus B737-200s in operation.


          (3) Rolls Royce has submitted analysis on the B757-200 for
              fleet growth, but any acquisition would be second-hand.


     3.  BA Comair


          (1) Significant growth since franchise agreement with British
              Airways.


          (2) 14 aircrafts in operation - 8x B737-200s, 6 x B727-200s.


          (3) BA have an 18% equity stake in Comair.


          (4) Record half-year results at the end of 1999 - turnover up
              by 54%, profit up by 56% (turnover R458,3 million).


          (5) Expanding network in South Africa, East Africa and Indian
              Ocean.


          (6) New fleet review decision expected in fourth quarter of
              2000 (possible B737, B757-200, A320 family).


          (7) Rolls Royce has good relationship with Comair seniors.


          Denel and Rolls Royce


          Denel are currently a 1% partner on the Trent 700, 772B, 800
          and 892 and also a 0,4% partner on the Trent 500. Its
          manufacturing workshare is that it is the single source
          supplier of the RB211 gearbox that powers the B757 and TU204
          aircraft. Rolls Royce has asked Denel for a proposal on how
          Rolls Royce might invest five million pounds in Denel
          Airmotive. Discussions will take place in Pretoria on 12 July
          2000, with a further opportunity at Farnborough 2000.


          Rolls Royce committed to a 106 million pound offset for the
          Hawk sale in South Africa. This represents 265% of the price
          paid for the engines. Rolls Royce was the first supplier for
          the total military package to sign a Strategic Partnership
          Agreement. Even though the aircraft are not delivered until
          2003, Rolls Royce has already started to place orders to
          honour the offset commitment. Denel will be the single source
          supplier for complete gearboxes for the Tay engine. Rolls
          Royce's offset to support the Hawk sale to South Africa is the
          most comprehensive offset programme ever offered by Rolls
          Royce.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises on Study Tour of Transnet Business Units, dated 28 February 2001:

 The Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, having conducted a study
 tour of Transnet Business Units from 8 to 10 May 2000, reports as
 follows:


 The purpose of the tour was to familiarise the Committee with various
 transport businesses under Transnet Limited, with regard to their
 structure and programmes.


 A.  8 May - presentation on restructuring in Transnet by Mr S S
     Ntsaluba, Executive Director: Restructuring


     1.  Transnet's restructuring objectives


          (1) Improving operational efficiency and asset utilisation.


          (2) Ensuring provision of quality service.


          (3) Transfer of expertise and technology to business units.


          (4) Transfer of risks to/sharing of risks with private sector.


          (5) Realisation of value.


          (6) Attraction of international investors with wide skills
              set.


     2.  Impact of process of restructuring on economy


          (1) Develop infrastructure.


          (2) Facilitate economic growth.


          (3) Mobilise private sector capital.


          (4) Reduce State debt.


          (5) Create wider ownership in the economy.


     3.  Impact of process of restructuring on company


          (1) To evolve as a holding company with interest in various
              developed core businesses.


          (2) To shift from being a sole provider of infrastructure to
              an integrated transport operator.


          (3) To create new business opportunities, growth and value.


          (4) To improve in productivity, efficiency and cost-
              effectiveness.


     4.  Impact of process on people


          Loss of employment results when companies are restructured
          with a view to being turned around. This is seen as a
          temporary yet necessary step. If not managed in this manner,
          it is bound to happen nevertheless. The restructuring office
          at Transnet is working closely with the Social Plan Unit to
          ensure that the negative impact of restructuring is minimised.


     5.  Timeframes for restructuring


          All businesses under Transnet will be restructured from 2000
          to 2003.


 B.  Introduction to Portnet by Mr S J Macozoma, Managing Director:
     Transnet LTD


     1.  Background


          In 1997 Portnet was experiencing a scissors effect in that it
          was losing money as a result of a raise in expenditure and a
          drop in revenue. Portnet therefore launched a turnaround
          strategy in June 1998, aimed at upgrading operations, finance,
          marketing and human resources, and introducing a
          divisionalisation system, which entailed splitting into Port
          Authority and Port Operations divisions. Most upgrades have
          been completed in the major business units at the Port
          Authority.


     2.  Divisionalisation


          Divisionalisation is the way forward for Portnet, and entails
          the following:


          (1) Internal reorganisation of businesses and realignment of
              business goals.


          (2) Port Authority to provide port infrastructure and marine
              services.


          (3) Port Operations to provide competitive cargo handling and
              other related services.


          (4) Focus on creating autonomous, self-sufficient business
              units in the Port Operations division.


     3.  Challenges


          Implementing recommendations from Phase 1 of the turnaround
          strategy - expansion of operational infrastructure:


          (1) Rightsizing of asset base


              Introducing modern technology in operations, etc;
              creating customer relationship management systems;
              implementing modern information systems appropriate to
              the ports industry; and revitalising Portnet staff by
              providing education and development programmes, creating
              capacity for pilots and port captains through
              international training programme and sustaining a
              performance management culture.


 C.  9 May - presentation on Metro Rail by Mr H Mateya, Chief Executive
     Officer


     1.  Background


          Metrorail forms part of the big seven transport units under
          Transnet Limited.


     2. Vision


          Metro Rail is the preferred rail commuter operator.


     3.  Mission


          To render a safe, effective, efficient and affordable rail
          commuter service and operate the public metropolitan rail
          system in partnership with all stakeholders, with a total
          journey focus, based on commuter needs.


     4.  Structure


          In 1994-95 Metro Rail had a staff complement of 12 000, which
          was decreased - at present it is 8 500.


     5.  Performance


          (1) Metro Rail's performance has increased between 1997 and
              2000.


          (2) In 1998 its fare income was R560 825 125, and in 2000 it
              stood at R686 903 119.


          (3) In 1998 it made a profit of R40 712 403 and in 2000 it was
              R117 295 108.


     6.  Transport: Central to development


          Metro Rail's view is that transport is the lifeblood of our
          economy. It is one of the five critical priorities of the
          government. Therefore its importance to the economic success
          of South Africa cannot be overstated.


          Metro Rail has developed a five-point strategy for growing the
          business:


          (1) Improving customer care.


          (2) Growing the revenue base.


          (3) Upgrading the asset base within its control.


          (4) Continue to reduce costs.


          (5) Creating partnerships with staff and providing them with
              incentives to perform.


 D.  Port of Richard's Bay - presentation by Mr S Gama, Chief Executive
     Officer: Port Authority


     1.  Background


          In May 1971 Parliament authorised the construction of the Port
          of Richard's Bay. It opened on 1 April 1976. In 1976 it
          handled 82 vessels and 4,2 million tons. In 1999 it had more
          than 1 700 vessels and handled in excess of 80 million tons.
          It makes up 55% of South Africa's seaborne cargo trade.


     2.  Developments


          The Port of Richard's Bay consists of a number of local
          industries: Billiton Hillside Smelter; Richards Bay Minerals;
          Mondi Kraft Mill; Indian Ocean Fertilizers; Three Woodchip
          Plants; Terminals.


 E.  Richard's Bay Coal Terminal


     This terminal is privately operated and is the largest export
     terminal in the world. It has a capacity of 66,5 million tons and
     presently exports about 63 million tons. It was to handle its
     billionth ton in 2000.


     1.  Island View Storage


          This terminal is privately operated by Richard's Bay bulk
          storage, and imports and exports bulk liquids and liquified
          gases.


          It is a multi-purpose plant that imports and exports dry bulk
          ores and minerals. Its conveyor belt network is over 40 km
          long and is linked to the terminal. 67% of its income is
          obtained by local means. Its upgrade capacity is from 11
          million to 18 million ton per annum.


     2.  Portnet's two General Cargo Terminals


          Combi Terminal: Dealing with the transportation of forest
          products, ferro alloys and pig iron aluminum.


          Bulk Metal Terminal: Dealing with the transportation of steel
          and granite.


     3.  Future developments


          The Port of Richard's Bay's capital investments were standing
          at R1,1 billion during the period 1996-2000. R730 million is
          estimated for 2000-02. It is also intending to build a second
          coal terminal, a dry dock and a fruit/passenger terminal.


     4.  Development potential


          The Port of Richard's Bay is South Africa's biggest port, with
          a land surface area of 2 157 ha and a water surface area of
          1 443 ha. Only 40% of the area is developed; there are
          additional areas outside the port, which are reserved for
          future development.


          The delegation was taken on a tour of the facilities of the
          Port of Richard's Bay, which included a tug trip of the bay, a
          visit to the Richard's Bay Coal Terminal and the Woodchip
          Plant. The tour was undertaken by helicopter in order to view
          the site of the Port of Richard's Bay from the air.


          The delegation was transported on the Metro Rail Conference
          Train from Stanger Station to Empangeni Station en route to
          Petronet, Durban.


 F.  Presentation on Petronet by Mr C A Moller, Chief Executive


     1.  Background


          Petronet was established in 1965. It owns, maintains and
          operates a network of some 3 000 km of high pressure petroleum
          and gas pipelines. It provides 100% of transportation of bulk
          petroleum by pipeline in South Africa. During the 1998-99
          financial year, Petronet transported through its network a
          total of some 16 billion liters of fuel. This includes diesel,
          leaded and unleaded petrols, aviation turbine fuel and crude
          oil. Gas throughput for the financial year was 2 000 million
          cubic metres.


          The pipelines range from six inches (150mm) to 20 inches
          (508mm) in diameter. Products are transported through the
          various pipelines at a maximum allowable pressure of up to 100
          bar for petroleum products and 59 bar for gas. Pressure in the
          pipeline is monitored 24 hours a day, in the control centre in
          Petronet's Head Office in Durban.


          Petronet's customers are the major oil companies in south
          Africa, namely BP, Shell, Caltex, Total, Zenex, Sasol Oil and
          Sasol Gas.


     2.  Human resources and structure


          Petronet employs about 660 personnel across the network. It
          has drawn up a plan to ensure that by the year 2003 the
          workforce will be reflective of the demographics of the
          country. Petronet has also embarked on an employee well-being
          programme, whereby all the basic needs such as housing,
          training and development, social issues and employee benefits
          are addressed.


          It has a geographically decentralised structure with two
          regional offices, one in the north at Bedfordview and one in
          the south at Pinetown, responsible for maintenance of assets
          and functional depot logistics. The Head Office is situated in
          Durban and houses the operational control centre and other
          support functions.


     3.  Challenges and issues


          The regulated liquid fuels industry was soon to be deregulated
          by means of the Energy Bill. This would impact on a number of
          complex agreements, guarantees and undertakings. All gas and
          fuel pipelines were to be regulated. The Gas Bill was expected
          in mid-2000 and the Pipeline Regulation Bill at the end of
          2000. Petronet is of the view that one should not regulate
          liquid pipelines in a highly regulated industry, but the
          Department of Minerals and Energy does not necessarily agree.


          Petronet does not face competition from the road but is still
          losing volumes to the road as a result of the principle of
          total cost.


          The Department of Minerals and Energy did not implement a 4%
          Petronet tariff increases for the year 2000.


          Too high tax and tariffs: Petronet can only corporatise with
          revised tax laws, or postpone corporatisation while still 100%
          State-owned.


 G.  10 May - presentation on Esselenpark Centre of Excellence by Ms B
     Dibate, Chief Executive Officer


     1.  Background


          The Esselenpark Centre of Excellence is an independent unit of
          Transnet and its subsidiaries. It is an institution dedicated
          to the concepts of "adding value" and the "pursuit of
          excellence". Five main areas of training are covered at the
          Centre: Adult Basic Education and Training; Functional
          Training; Information Technology Training; Tertiary Training;
          and Management and Supervisory Development.


     2.  Vision


          Esselenpark is a dynamic and preferred partner in the
          provision of market-driven organisational and people
          development solutions.


     3.  Mission


          Esselenpark is a preferred partner in the provision of market-
          driven hospitality services, organisational and people
          development solutions.


     4.  Strategic objectives


          Esselenpark is committed to achieving its mission through -


          (1) creating a culture of service excellence;


          (2) building operation capability by exporting industry-
              relevant experience through joint ventures and
              partnerships;


          (3) new customer drive and retention through accelerated new
              product/service development;
          (4) alignment and compliance with all legislation that seek to
              promote gender equity and people development.


          While Esselenpark's main focus is training, there are
          developments within the industry that negatively impact on the
          Centre's long-term sustainability. Examples of these
          developments are training migration to IT and training on
          site. For this reason, Esselenpark will in the next five years
          be repositioned into two operational units, namely
          Organisational and Human Resources Development, and
          Hospitality and Property Management.


     5.  Strategic options - Organisational and Human Resource
          Development


          (1) Align training to NQF requirements.


          (2) Offer career-path training.


          (3) Export new capabilities through joint ventures and
              partnerships with other tertiary institutions.


          (4) Application of multi-media technology to increase training
              effectiveness (virtual classroom).


          (5) Exploit Skills Development Act opportunities for training
              and development.


     6.  Strategic options - Hospitality and Property Management


          To transfer hospitality and property management into a viable
          and sustainable business by -


          (1) building operational capability through exporting relevant
              industry expertise;


          (2) attract and retain new clients through superior service
              delivery and upgrade facilities in line with customer
              expectation;
          (3) consolidate Esselenpark's position as a "one-stop and pre-
              eminent venue" for all hospitality requirements.


     7.  Recent success


          Restructuring took place without negative industrial relation
          issues. Black Economic Empowerment rose from 15% to 47% of
          total Esselenpark expenditure. Esselenpark was the first
          institution in Africa to launch virtual classroom training
          methodology in line with global trends. Esselenpark hosted a
          number of high-profile events like the Alzheimer International
          Conference. Outsourcing took place to small, medium and micro
          enterprises. The delegation went on a tour of the facilities
          attached to the Esselenpark Centre of Excellence.


 H.  Presentation of SAA by Mr C Andrews, Chief Executive Officer and
     President


     1.  Background
          18 months ago the SAA suffered several fatal flaws in its
          strategy, operations, organisation and culture. Amongst other
          problems, they had a severe weakness in revenue management, no
          fleet strategy, limited alliances and pockets of corruption
          operating from within.


     2.  New strategy adopted


          (1) Since 18 months ago the SAA -


              (a) has sharply improved customer services;


              (b) has introduced a new first and business class
                   product;


              (c) has upgraded its fleet;


              (d) has entered into powerful alliances that would be
                   profitable;


              (e) has had dramatic revenue management gains; and


              (f) has had a substantial cost reduction.


     3.  The SAA has managed to reduce costs in a number of ways:


          (1) It has had approximately 1 300 voluntary departures or
              retrenchments.


          (2) There were overhead reductions as a result of programme-
              spending cuts.


          (3) Money-losing routes were fixed or eliminated.


          The SAA's previous international network had major structural
          flaws and served only 70 destinations. It is built on strong
          alliances - the new network now serves 503 destinations. They
          are currently looking at modernising and simplifying the fleet
          to cut costs, gain product advantage and eliminate
          complexities. During 1999 the SAA was operating at a non-
          profit of R130 million, while in 2000 it was making a profit
          of R573 million. The value of SAA equity in June 1998 was R1,5
          billion; the value increased dramatically, so that by June
          1999 it was at R6,9 billion.


     4.  Service


          The SAA is said to be setting the world class standard for on-
          time performances and is a finalist for the Airline of the
          Year 2000.


     5.  SAA composition


          By 15 June 1998 the statistics of the leadership structure
          (out of 13 individuals) of the SAA was 69% white, 15% black,
          8% coloured, 8% Asian and 0% international. On 8 February
          2000, the leadership structure (out of 15 candidates) looked
          as follows: 28% white; 33% black; 14% coloured; 7% Asian; and
          20% international.


          Objectives: To build a team-oriented culture that fosters
          effective and harmonious collaboration between members of all
          sectors of the South African society.


          To accomplish greater inclusion of and advancement by members
          of previously disadvantaged groups in the successful
          development of the SAA.


     6.  Set powerful example at top


          Who makes up the leadership team? How many members of the team
          work together? What does the team do to achieve the two
          transformation objectives"?


     7.  Retain and promote talent


          (1) Recognising and rewarding staff accomplishments privately
              and publicly,


          (2) Build broad expertise in multiple areas.


     8.  Use effective tools


          (1) Identify and recruit superior talent.


          (2) Seek out the best talent in the company and the nation.


          (3) Make the SAA a magnet for high achievers.


     9.  Train and develop


          (1) Start with the high potential talent and then use
              accelerated real work experiences to see who qualifies
              for a leadership role in the SAA.


          (2) Formal training for the leadership team, for example MBA
              programmes.

                        MONDAY, 18 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker: The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the relevant committees as mentioned below:

 (1) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Social Development for information:


     Specific Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Government of Sweden on Children and Justice
     Support 1 September 2000 - 30 September 2003, tabled in terms of
     section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance for information:


     (a) Specific Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the Government of Sweden on the establishment
          of a Technical Co-operation Facility, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Specific Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the Government of Sweden on Revised Budget
          Reporting Formats, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (c) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union  concerning the Support
          Programme to the Chief Directorate International Development
          Co-operation IDC (IDC - NAO Office), tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (d) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union concerning Conference,
          Workshop and Cultural Iniative Fund II, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (e) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union concerning the Technical
          and Administrative Assistance Programme to the European
          Programme for Reconstruction and Development in South Africa
          (EPRD), tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
          1996.


     (f) Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          Support for the SADC Finance and Investment Protocol (FISCU),
          tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (3) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance, the Portfolio Committee on Education, the Portfolio
     Committee on Housing, the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture,
     Science and Technology and to the Portfolio Committee on
     Provincial and Local Government for information:


     Amendment Number Two to the Development Co-operation Agreement
     between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
     Government of Sweden, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
     Constitution, 1996.
 (4) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Health for information:


     (a) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union  concerning Regional
          Support for an Expanded Multisectoral Response to HIV/AIDS in
          the SADC Region, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the Public Health Sectoral Support Programme, tabled in terms
          of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (c) Rider No 4 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the Public Health Sectoral Support Programme, tabled in terms
          of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (5) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Safety and Security for information:


     (a) Rider No 2 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the Assistance to Policing in the Eastern Cape, tabled in
          terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the Assistance to Policing in the Eastern Cape, tabled in
          terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (6) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development for information:


     (a) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union  concerning Support to the
          Transformation of the Justice System: The e-Justice Programme,
          tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union concerning the Second EU
          Human Rights Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
          the Constitution, 1996.


     (c) Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the EU Human Rights Programme, tabled in terms of section
          231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (7) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on the
     Public Service and Administration for information:


     Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the European Commission concerning
     Public Service Management Development Programme, tabled in terms
     of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (8) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Water Affairs and Forestry for information:


     (a) Financing Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the European Union  concerning Water Services
          Sector Support Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
          the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 4 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the Water Development Programme in the Eastern Cape, tabled in
          terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (9) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Education for information:


     (a) Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Commission
          concerning the Education Sectoral Support Programme, tabled in
          terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          the South African Qualifications Authority, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (c) Rider No 2 to Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the
          Government of the Republic of South Africa and the European
          Commission concerning the Education Sectoral Support
          Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


 (10) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Foreign Affairs for information:


     Exchange of Letters between the Government of the Republic of
     South Africa and the European Commission concerning Privileges and
     Immunities of technical Assistants, tabled in terms of section
     231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
 (11) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry for information:


     (a) Financing Agreement between the Commission of the European
          Communities and the SADC Member States concerning the EU-SADC
          Investment Promotion (ESIP) Programme, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          Technology Support for SMMEs Pilot Programme, tabled in terms
          of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (12) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Labour for information:


     (a) Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          Labour Market Skills Development Programme, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b) Rider No 2 to Financing Agreement between the Government of
          the Republic of South Africa and the European Union concerning
          Labour Market Skills Development Programme, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Bills:

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (1) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Uitvoerkrediet- en Buitelandse
     Beleggingsherversekering [W 19 - 2001].


     The Export Credit and Foreign Investments Re-insurance Amendment
     Bill [B 19 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) was introduced in
     the National Assembly on 26 April 2001 and referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry.

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 25 -
 Public Service and Administration for 1999-2000 [RP 134-2000].

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development:

 SUBMISSION OF LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL: MEMORANDUM, IN TERMS OF RULE 238 OF
 THE RULES OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY, BY THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
 JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT:


     The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development
     is hereby requesting the permission of the House in terms of Rule
     230(1) for the introduction of the following legislation in the
     House:-


     (a) Particulars of the proposed legislation


          The legislation will comprise a Criminal Procedure Amendment
          Bill, and will be aimed at substituting section 170A of the
          Criminal Procedure Act, 1977 (Act No. 51 of 1977), by the
          following section (words underlined indicate insertions in the
          existing section):


          "Evidence through intermediaries


            170A. (1) Whenever criminal proceedings are pending before
          any court and it appears to such court that it would expose
          any witness under the age of eighteen years to undue mental
          stress or suffering if he or she testifies at such
          proceedings, the court may, subject to subsection (4), appoint
          a competent person as an intermediary in order to enable such
          witness to give his or her evidence through that intermediary.
            (2)(a) No examination, cross-examination or re-examination
          of any witness in respect of whom a court has appointed an
          intermediary under subsection (1), except examination by the
          court, shall take place in any manner other than through that
          intermediary.
            (b) The said intermediary may, unless the court directs
          otherwise, convey the general purport of any question to the
          relevant witness.
            (3) If a court appoints an intermediary under subsection
          (1), the court may direct that the relevant witness shall give
          his or her evidence at any place -
          (a) which is informally arranged to set that witness at ease;
          (b) which is so situated that any person whose presence may
              upset that witness, is outside the sight and hearing of
              that witness; and
          (c) which enables the court and any person whose presence is
              necessary at the relevant proceedings to see and hear,
              either directly or through the medium of any electronic
              or other devices, that intermediary as well as that
              witness during his or her testimony.
            (4)(a) The Minister may by notice in the Gazette determine
          the persons or the category or class of persons who are
          competent to be appointed as intermediaries.
            (b) An intermediary who is not in the full-time employment
          of the State shall be paid such travelling and subsistence and
          other allowances in respect of the services rendered by him or
          her as the Minister, with the concurrence of the Minister of
          Finance, may determine.
            (5)(a) No oath, affirmation or admonition which has been
          administered through an intermediary in terms of section 165
          shall be invalid and no evidence which has been obtained
          through an intermediary shall be inadmissible solely on
          account of the fact that such intermediary was not competent
          to be appointed as an intermediary in terms of a regulation
          referred to in subsection (4)(a), at the time when such oath,
          affirmation or admonition was administered or such evidence
          was presented.
            (b) If in any proceedings it appears to a court that an
          oath, affirmation or admonition was administered or that
          evidence has been obtained through an intermediary who was
          appointed in good faith but, at the time of such appointment,
          was not qualified to be appointed as an intermediary in terms
          of a regulation referred to in subsection (4)(a), the court
          must make a finding as to the validity of that oath,
          affirmation or admonition or the admissibility of that
          evidence, as the case may be, with due regard to -
            (i)  the reason why the intermediary concerned was not
          qualified to be appointed as an intermediary, and the
          likelihood that the reason concerned will affect the
          reliability of the evidence so presented adversely;
            (ii)  the mental stress or suffering which the witness, in
          respect of whom that intermediary was appointed, will be
          exposed to if that evidence is to be presented anew, whether
          by the witness in person or through another intermediary; and
            (iii) the likelihood that real and substantial justice will
          be impaired if that evidence is admitted.
            (6)(a) Subsection (5) does not prevent the prosecution from
          presenting anew any evidence which was presented through an
          intermediary referred to in that subsection.
            (b) The provisions of subsection (5) shall also be
          applicable in respect of all cases where an intermediary
          referred to in that subsection has been appointed, and in
          respect of which, at the time of the commencement of that
          subsection -
            (i)   the trial court; or
            (ii)  the court considering an appeal or review,
            has not delivered judgment.".


     (b) Objects of the proposed legislation


          1.  In terms of section 170A of the Criminal Procedure Act,
              1977 (Act No. 51 of 1977) (the Act), a court may, if it
              is of the opinion that a witness under the age of
              eighteen years will be exposed to undue mental stress or
              suffering if he or she testifies at criminal proceedings,
              appoint a "competent person" as an intermediary in order
              to enable the witness to give his or her evidence through
              that intermediary. Section 170A was inserted into the Act
              in 1991, to protect specifically the interests of young
              persons and children who have to testify in sensitive
              cases such as rape, indecent assault and child abuse.


          2.  The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
              may by notice in the Gazette determine the persons or the
              category or class of persons who are competent to be
              appointed as intermediaries.


              * A list of categories of persons who are competent to be
                appointed as intermediaries was subsequently published
                in Government Notice No R1374 of 30 July 1993. This
                Notice was amended by Government Notice No R360 of 28
                February 1997.


              * One of the categories fixed in terms of this Notice is
                that of "...educators in terms of the Educators'
                Employment Act, 1994 (Proclamation No 138 of 1994), who
                have four years experience in teaching and who have not
                at any stage, for whatever reason, been suspended or
                dismissed from service in teaching".


              * The Educators' Employment Act, 1994, was, however,
                repealed by the Employment of Educators Act, 1998 (Act
                No 76 of 1998). In terms of the definition of
                "educator" contained in this 1998 Act, an educator
                must, amongst others, be "...appointed in a post on any
                educator establishment under this Act".


          3.  In a review judgment delivered on 13 March 2001, the Cape
              Town High Court held that former (and retired) teachers
              do not fall within the new definition of "educators" and
              they are therefore not competent to be appointed as
              intermediaries. (S v Bongani; Case No 20006077). This
              ruling will have a profound and adverse effect on the
              significant number of cases which are part-heard and in
              which former or retired educators were appointed as
              intermediaries. It is particularly distressing to note
              that vulnerable witnesses, in respect of whom
              intermediaries were appointed to protect them from
              exposure to undue mental stress or suffering when they
              testified at criminal proceedings, will through no fault
              of their own be required to repeat their testimony,
              whether in person or through another intermediary. It is
              believed that there are approximately 46 such part-heard
              cases in the Western Cape alone, and several hundred such
              cases across the country.


          4.  The Bill aims therefore to amend section 170A of the
              Criminal Procedure Act, 1977, in order to determine a
              procedure to be followed by a court when it appears that
              evidence has been presented through an intermediary who,
              although appointed as an intermediary in good faith, was
              not competent to be appointed as such an intermediary.


     (c) Financial implications for the State


          The proposed legislation will not lead to any additional
          expenditure for the State.

                        TUESDAY, 19 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Trade and
     Industry in the National Assembly on 19 June 2001 and referred to
     the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of
     Joint Rule 160:


     (i) Companies Amendment Bill [B 35 - 2001] (National Assembly -
          sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No 22249 of 24
          April 2001.]


     The Bill has also been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry of the National Assembly.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (a) General Report of the Auditor-General for 1999-2000 [RP 75-2001].


 (b) Status Report of the Auditor-General on the submission of financial
     statements of National and Provincial Government in terms of the
     Public Finance Management Act for 2000-2001 [RP 79-2001].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Interim Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests with regard to the complaint against Mr T S Yengeni MP

 1. BACKGROUND


 1.1 On the basis of a report in the Sunday Times, 25 March 2001, Mr D
     Gibson, MP lodged a complaint with the Chairperson of the Joint
     Committee on Ethics and Members' Interests in respect of alleged
     non-disclosure by Mr T S Yengeni, MP.


 1.2 At its meeting on 28 March 2001, the Committee instructed the
     Registrar to request a response from Mr Yengeni to Mr Gibson's
     letter of complaint.
 2. COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MR YENGENI AND THE OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR OF
     MEMBERS' INTERESTS WITH REGARD TO THE COMPLAINT


 2.1 The Registrar, as instructed by the Committee, sent a letter to Mr
     Yengeni on 30 March 2001.


 2.2 Mr Yengeni responded on 6 April 2001. In his response to the
     Registrar, Mr Yengeni questioned whether the relevant rules and
     procedures had been followed.


 2.3 In consultation with the Chairperson and on the basis of legal
     opinion obtained from the Chief Parliamentary Law Adviser, a
     second letter, dated 10 April 2001, was sent to Mr Yengeni
     informing him that the letter of the 30 March 2001 was sent on the
     instruction of the Committee and that he is required to respond.


 2.4 On 10 April 2001 the Registrar received a letter from Mr Yengeni's
     personal assistant indicating that Mr Yengeni would only be in a
     position to respond after 2 May 2001 as Parliament was in recess.


 2.5 The Registrar subsequently received a response from Mr Yengeni on
     18 April 2001. Mr. Yengeni responded to the questions on the
     allegation of non-disclosure of a benefit that he received in
     respect of his motor vehicle and secondly the non-disclosure of
     his home in Tigerhof.


 2.6 Mr Yengeni indicated that he had disclosed his home in 1996 and
     that his understanding of the rules was that a once off disclosure
     was sufficient. With regard to the motor vehicle Mr Yengeni stated
     that the vehicle was legitimately purchased and that its
     acquisition did not in any way amount to a gift or donation and
     therefore there was no need for disclosure.


 3. CONTENT OF THE COMPLAINT


     The complaint submitted by Mr Gibson raised the following matters:


 3.1 That Mr Yengeni did not disclose erf 18250 Cape Town.


 3.2 With regard to motor vehicle CA 80233, that the licensing
     application indicates that Stannic was the financier and that Mr
     Yengeni appears to have received free use of a motor vehicle for a
     period of seven months and that the benefit was not disclosed.


 3.3 That the Committee should consider whether it is appropriate for
     the Chairperson of the Defence Committee to enter into an
     agreement with a company that either itself or whose affiliates
     are or were involved in tendering for arms or sub-contracts.


 4. FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS


 4.1 In respect of the alleged non-disclosure of erf 18250 Cape Town.


 4.2 Five members of the Committee were of the view that -


     (a) Mr Yengeni's explanation was not sufficient for them to
          determine the facts; and


     (b) Mr Yengeni therefore should be required to appear at this
          point before the Committee to give an explanation of the
          alleged non-disclosure concerning the acquisition of the motor
          vehicle.


 4.3 The majority view was -


     (a) Mr Yengeni did not comply with the Code;


     (b) Mr Yengeni's non-compliance was not mala fide.


 4.4 Accordingly the Committee recommends that Mr Yengeni must submit
     the details of erf 18250 to the Registrar by 31 May 2001.


     The Committee voted 24 in favour of the majority decision with 5
     against.


 4.5 In respect of the alleged non-disclosure of the benefit of motor
     vehicle CA 80233 as well as the appropriateness of the Chairperson
     of the Defence Committee entering into an agreement with a company
     that either itself or whose affiliates are or were involved in
     tendering for arms or sub-contracts. The Committee deliberated at
     length on these matters.


 4.6 The view of seven members of the Committee was that -


     (a) the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members' Interests should
          proceed directly with its own investigation of these matters;


     (b) Mr Yengeni is refusing to cooperate with the Committee, and
          this constitutes contempt of the Committee;


     (c) Mr Yengeni should be required to appear at this point before
          the Committee to give an explanation of the facts concerning
          the acquisition of the motor vehicle.


 4.7 A majority view -
     (a) noted that the allegations contained in the Sunday Times, 25
          March 2001, were made in the context of the Strategic Defence
          Procurement Process;


     (b) further noted that on 2 November 2000 the National Assembly
          accepted the recommendation of the Standing Committee on
          Public Accounts that a forensic investigation be conducted
          into allegations of impropriety in relation to this process;


     (c) further noted the report of the Standing Committee on Public
          Accounts, tabled in and adopted by the National Assembly on 4
          April 2001, that such an investigation is being co-ordinated
          by the Office of the Auditor-General and comprises the Office
          of the Public Protector and the Investigating Directorate for
          Serious Economic Offences in the Office of the National
          Director of Public Prosecutions;


     (d) believes that the subject matter of the complaint falls within
          the scope and ambit of the above investigation and that a
          separate investigation by the Committee would traverse the
          same issues. Therefore a parallel investigation, at this
          point, into these matters is not desirable.


          Accordingly, the Committee in respect of the above two
          matters, recommends that Parliament should await the report of
          the joint investigating team, the Committee should consider
          the report in order to proceed with the complaint.


          The Committee voted twenty-two in favour of the majority view
          with seven against.


 The report is tabled for consideration by the National Assembly.

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on the South African Boxing Bill [B 13B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 19 June 2001: The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation, having considered the South African Boxing Bill [B 13B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 479), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 13C
   • 2001].

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the Privileges and Immunities of International Atomic Energy Agency Agreement, dated 13 June 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the International Atomic Energy Agency, referred to it, and having conferred with the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve accession to the said Agreement, with the following reservations: (a) The Government of the Republic of South Africa does not consider itself bound by the provisions of Section 6 of Article III, as certain limitations exist in the Republic regarding the holding of and trading in gold.

       Explanatory note: The buying, selling and holding of gold in
       the Republic is regulated. In terms of Exchange Control
       Regulation 2, no person other than an Authorised Dealer may
       buy or borrow any gold from or sell to any person who is not
       an Authorised Dealer, unless exemption from Exchange Control
       Regulation 5 has been authorised (Mining Houses and Mining
       Producers may elect to sell their total gold holdings to the
       approved counter parties, including foreign counter parties,
       provided that the Exchange Control Department of the South
       African Reserve Bank has given the necessary exemption from
       the aforementioned regulation).
   

   (b) The Government of the Republic does not undertake to apply the exemption from taxation in respect of salaries and emoluments, referred to in section 18(a)(ii) of Article VI of the Agreement, in respect of any South African citizen who is ordinarily resident in South Africa.

   (c) Pending a decision by the Government of the Republic on the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, the Government of the Republic does not consider itself bound by the terms of Section 34 of the Convention, which provides for the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in differences arising from the interpretation or application of the Convention.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the UN Privileges and Immunities Convention, dated 13 June 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 13 February 1946, referred to it, and having conferred with the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve accession to the said Convention, with the following reservations:

   (a) The Government of the Republic of South Africa does not consider itself bound by the provisions of Section 5 of Article II, as certain limitations exist in the Republic regarding the holding of and trading in gold.

       Explanatory note: The buying, selling and holding of gold in
       the Republic is regulated. In terms of Exchange Control
       Regulation 2, no person other than an Authorised Dealer may
       buy or borrow any gold from, or sell to, any person who is not
       an Authorised Dealer, unless exemption from Exchange Control
       Regulation 5 has been authorised (Mining Houses and Mining
       Producers may elect to sell their total gold holdings to the
       approved counter-parties, including foreign counter-parties,
       provided that the Exchange Control Department of the South
       African Reserve Bank has given the necessary exemption from
       the aforementioned regulation).
   

    (b) Pending a decision by the Government of the Republic of South Africa on the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, the Government of the Republic does not consider itself bound by the terms of Section 30 of the Convention, which provides for the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in differences arising from the interpretation or application of the Convention.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs on the Specialised Agencies’ Privileges and Immunities Convention, dated 13 June 2001: The Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the Specialised Agencies, approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 21 November 1947, referred to it, and having conferred with the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve accession to the said Convention, with the following reservations:

   (a) The Government of the Republic of South Africa, in accordance with the provisions of Section 43 of Article XI, indicates the following specialised agencies in respect of which it undertakes to apply the provisions of the Convention:

       1.  The International Labour Organisation (ILO).
   
   
       2.  The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United
           Nations (FAO).
       3.  The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).
   
   
       4.  United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
           Organization (UNESCO).
   
   
       5.  International Monetary Fund (IMF).
   
   
       6.  International Bank for Reconstruction and Development
           (IBRD).
   
   
       7.  World Health Organization (WHO).
   
   
       8.  Universal Postal Union (UPU).
   
   
       9.  International Telecommunications Union (ITU).
   
   
       10. World Meteorological Organization (WMO).
   
   
       11. International Maritime Organization (IMO).
   
   
       12. International Finance Corporation (IFC).
   
   
       13. International Development Association (IDA).
   
   
       14. World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).
   
   
       15. International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD).
   
   
       16. United Nations Industrial Development Organization
           (UNIDO).
   

   (b) The Government of the Republic of South Africa does not consider itself bound by the provisions of Section 7 of Article III, as certain limitations exist in the Republic regarding the holding of and trading in gold.

       Explanatory note: The buying, selling and holding of gold in
       the Republic is regulated. In terms of Exchange Control
       Regulation 2, no person other than an Authorised Dealer may
       buy or borrow any gold from or sell to any person who is not
       an Authorised Dealer, unless exemption from Exchange Control
       Regulation 5 has been authorised (Mining Houses and Mining
       Producers may elect to sell their total gold holdings to the
       approved counter parties, including foreign counter parties,
       provided that the Exchange Control Department of the South
       African Reserve Bank has given the necessary exemption from
       the aforementioned regulation).
   

   (c) Pending a decision by the Government of the Republic of South Africa on the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, the Government of the Republic does not consider itself bound by the terms of Section 32 of the Convention, which provides for the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in differences arising from the interpretation or application of the Convention.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Civil and Political Rights Protocol, dated 17 May 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Civil and Political Rights Second Protocol, dated 17 May 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Social Development on Study Tour to Brazil, dated 9 May 2001:

 The Portfolio Committee on Social Development reports as follows:


 A.  Preamble


     A delegation of the Committee undertook a study tour to Brazil
     from 18 to 24 March 2001. This multiparty delegation was led by
     the Chairperson of the Committee, Mr E Saloojee (ANC), and he was
     accompanied by Mr M Masuta (ANC), Mr A van Jaarsveld (NNP), Ms P
     Cupido (DP), Ms I Mars (IFP), Ms Z Adhikari (Committee Secretary)
     and Ms N Ahmed (Parliamentary Researcher).


 B.  Introduction


     The purpose of the study tour was to investigate Brazil's
     management systems with regard to social, economic and human
     development within the new sectoral paradigm of Social
     Development. Brazil's welfare project has been operating within
     the paradigm of Social Development for a number of years, and it
     was felt that the Committee could benefit from the insights,
     successes, failures, policies, programmes and models for delivery
     that Brazil has effected within this paradigm.


 C.  Objectives


     1.  To review the nature and extent of social security benefits in
          Brazil.


     2.  To critically assess its anti-poverty programmes.


     3.  To investigate the community/government partnership model
          operative in the area of social service delivery.


     4.  To assess the nature and extent of household food security
          programmes.


     5.  To review programmes for children living on the street and
          young people at risk.


     The magnitude of the transformation of social and sustainable
     human development in South Africa necessitates that the
     Committee's involvement in these areas be active and incisive.
     Furthermore, the Cabinet appointed a committee of enquiry into a
     comprehensive social security system for South Africa, and that
     committee is finalising its report. The Portfolio Committee wanted
     to make recommendations in this regard, based on the findings from
     the study tour.


     The delegation travelled to three cities, Brasilia, Sao Paulo and
     Rio De Janeiro, and meetings had been strategically selected to
     ensure that the objectives of the study were met, and that
     meaningful input could be made into the final report of the said
     committee of enquiry. It was also deemed important to identify,
     through this study tour, key challenges to be addressed by the
     Social Development sector as it operationalises its policies
     within its new conceptual paradigm.


     The tour included meetings with delegations comprising political
     office-bearers, senior government officials, project managers, non-
     governmental organisations (NGOs), community-based organisations
     (CBOs), community leaders, beneficiaries of government-initiated
     programmes and members of civil society involved in community
     action for social transformation. The delegation also visited four
     sites. The site visits were included to ensure that the delegation
     could focus on the implementation of programmes, rather than
     merely being a passive audience to presentations on policy
     initiatives.


     One visit was to a peri-urban community project dealing with
     social security and youth at risk. The second site visit was to a
     low-cost housing project that formed part of a broader strategy of
     urban renewal and development in Brazil. The third visit was to
     the Favelas - the informal settlements in Rio De Janeiro - where
     communities are themselves acting as agents for social change. The
     fourth site visit was an experiential exercise whereby delegation
     members enacted the process of executing social transfers for food
     security. This forms an integral part of the Brazilian social
     security system. In the area of food security, Brazil has focused
     on non-income social transfers to alleviate poverty and to target
     social assistance to vulnerable groups, including the unemployed,
     women, children and the aged.


     This Report covers meetings with delegations and site visits in
     chronological order. Emphasis is placed on the insights gained
     during the tour, on key recommendations as well as on challenges
     for the social development sector in executing its mandate of
     poverty alleviation through social security and the development of
     equitable investment in human resource capacity. More detailed
     programmatic information is available from the Committee
     Secretary, upon request.


 D.  Meetings and site visits


     1.  Briefing by SA Ambassador to Brazil


          Upon arrival in Brazil, the delegation was briefed by our
          Ambassador, Mr Rakwena. He provided deep insight and gave an
          astute account of the social, economic and political factors
          operative in the Brazilian society. Furthermore, he gave an
          account of the socio-economic relationship and mutual
          interests that infuse the Brazilian/South African connection.
          He spoke at length about the social development project in
          Brazil, and was able to provide the delegation with an
          unbiased and objective account of the country's social
          realities.


          The magnanimity of Mr and Mrs Rakwena's hospitality, the
          assistance from the First Secretary, Ms B Henry, and the
          unqualified administrative support from the Embassy staff, are
          noted with gratitude.


     2.  Mission Child (Brasilia)


          This is a privately funded NGO whose aim is to eradicate
          poverty, hunger and social exclusion through investing
          available resources in education. The concept of social
          exclusion in Brazil is defined as referring to those who live
          below the poverty line and who have poor access to social,
          educational, health and economic resources. An integrated and
          holistic model of intervention with the individual child,
          family, school and community is practiced. In view of the very
          high incidence of child labour in Brazil, its social and
          political movements have identified the eradication of child
          labour as the central focus of development activities. It is
          estimated that more than two million children are involved in
          some form of child labour in Brazil.


          This NGO thus offers poor families a basic income as an
          incentive for their children to remain in school. This
          integrated programme, through the provision of a basic income,
          aims to eradicate the sense of indebtedness that poor families
          may feel as recipients of welfare benefits, as well as through
          education, to restore for poor families a sense of citizenship
          and pride in being participating members of their society. It
          is the aim of this organisation to infuse within Brazilian
          society a "Mania for Education", starting from the very young
          to the very old. It is their belief that through education,
          people are not only equipped with skills, but can reclaim
          their dignity as citizens.


          Mission Child offers a Bolsa Escola or school bursary to poor
          households or families where the incidence of illiteracy, lack
          of skills and poor family cohesion may be very high. In order
          to qualify, families must have a monthly income of not more
          than half the minimum wage (the minimum wage in Brazil is
          US$80). Poor families are identified by the local school, and
          school staff monitor the school attendance of the child.


          CBOs and NGOs regularly visit these families and offer support
          services where needed. Administrators from the municipality
          are also closely involved with the programme. This close
          collaboration at local level easily facilitates monitoring
          compliance of families.


          School bursaries to families are discontinued if parents do
          not comply with the conditions of this bursary. Through this
          type of social assistance intervention, the school drop-out
          rate was reduced from 18% to 0,4% in the city of Brasilia.


          The benefits of this programme include the following:


          (a) It targets the problem of poverty alleviation
              holistically.


          (b) It invests in citizenship.


          (c) It builds self-esteem in poor children and their families.


          (d) It brings immediate and tangible results, as services are
              direct.


          (e) It is not dependent on government funding.


          (f) It is easy to replicate and tailored to country/locality-
              specific circumstances. In Mexico for example, in
              addition to school attendance, children need to be
              immunised. In other instances where this programme has
              been replicated, girls get more money than boys, to
              encourage girls to attend school.


          (g) Administrative costs are minimal, as institutional
              mechanisms that already operate in the lives of children
              and families, are utilised.


          (h) Delivery at municipal level ensures monitoring and
              effective targeting of families in need.


     3.  Comments and recommendations
          (a) We need to define the role of NGOs in South Africa in
              providing social security.


          (b) It is necessary to develop enabling legislation, should a
              role be defined for the NGO sector in administering
              social security.


          (c) There is the challenge of fostering closer partnerships
              between the private sector and NGOs in social service
              delivery.


          (d) There should be strong local government-led service
              delivery in the area of social development.


          (e) We need to establish a standard household minimum wage as
              a mechanism for targeting social security.


          (f) Consider a basic income grant for families to promote self-
              sufficiency. This could be linked to the attainment of
              some form of skills development or other form of social
              competence.


          (g) Develop an accurate statistical child poverty profile in
              South Africa as an entry point for poverty alleviation.
              Targeted interventions can then be developed and
              monitored.


          (h) A clear and unambiguous poverty line must be agreed upon
              to identify the level and depth of poverty in South
              Africa. Social assistance targeting can thus be
              facilitated, and the cost of alleviating poverty can be
              determined.


          (i) There must be a strategic focus in all social development
              programmes on developing a sense of community and full
              citizenship through activities and programmes that
              promote the attainment of socio-economic and other human
              rights.


     4.  Communidade Solidaria (Brasilia)
          Mrs Ruth Cardosa, wife of the Brazilian President, heads the
          Board of this organisation. It is modelled on a true
          partnership between existing government departments, the
          private sector, non-profit (NPOs) and profit organisations.
          When the new administration came into power in 1995, one of
          the identified priorities was a complete and thorough review
          of social programmes in view of the high income inequality in
          Brazil.


          As a result of this review, a number of problems were
          identified:


          (a) The government alone could not address all the social
              problems prevalent in the society.


          (b) Legislation governing social development sector
              partnerships and funding parameters was outdated.


          (c) There was a need to strengthen NPOs and the community
              sectors.


          (d) There was a need to initiate a new partnership between the
              private and NPO sectors.


          New legislation was then developed for the third sector (not
          government and not business). Up until that time, the third
          sector was relatively unco-ordinated, and there was a need to
          create links in this sector. An electronic third sector
          network was created, and all organisations that wanted to
          participate in this network, could be included. This has
          proved to be very useful, as collaboration was greatly
          facilitated. Volunteerism was also actively encouraged, and 34
          volunteer centres were opened in all the large cities in
          Brazil.


          The Council of Communidade Solidaria comprises a
          representative from the President's office, the Ministers of
          Health, Education and Labour, as well as 21 representatives of
          civil society.


          Communidade Solidaria is active in a number of programmes:
          Youth programmes, University Solidaria, Solidarity in
          Literacy, Handicrafts for women.


          This organisation's methodology is to create model projects
          that can then be easily replicated. The first project was a
          vocational training project for out-of-school youths. A
          monetary incentive of half a minimum wage was paid to them in
          respect of a scholarship, as an incentive to participate in
          the programme. Youths then participate in vocational training
          for six months. The business sector, NGOs, and to a degree the
          Department of Labour, fund this project. The organisation
          started with 1 000 youths, and after five years 100 000 youths
          had benefitted from this project. The organisation also funded
          special training programmes for NGOs working with youths. NGOs
          can then develop programmes based on the model projects.


          In respect of the university programme, local universities are
          invited to select senior students to participate in community
          work. Students get paid a small stipend by the organisation,
          to cover travelling costs, but have to largely fund
          themselves. Students are then sent to work in the North-east
          of Brazil, the country's poorest region. They work within
          communities where needs have been identified. They provide
          services in respect of day-care centres, community centres,
          homes for the aged, youth discussions around sexually
          transmitted diseases and sexuality, sanitation and clean
          water, and waste management. Though this kind of community
          service does not get formal accreditation from the university,
          the programme is proving to be so popular that University
          Solidaria could not cope with the demands from students to do
          community service.


          On Solidaria with a view to reducing illiteracy, this
          programme targets young people between the ages of 15 and 19
          years. The duration is six months, and teachers from local
          schools, colleges and universities offer their services to
          this programme. This initiative is funded partly by the
          Department of Education and partly by private businesses.


          The handicraft project seeks not only to teach women
          entrepreneurial skills, but also to preserve the rich craft
          legacy in the country. Women crafters are assisted throughout
          this programme by qualified designers to produce crafts that
          are suitable for export. These designers scout the latest
          fashion trends locally and internationally and thus enable the
          crafters to produce goods that are sought after. The programme
          also then assists them with marketing these goods, not only as
          novelties, but as functional items sought after in the
          commercial market.


     5.  Comments and recommendations


          (a) The Department of Social Development can lead the
              mobilisation of the NGO sector in this country. To date,
              its role has largely been one of funder, but the
              Department could make expertise available to assist NGOs
              with training, programme planning and evaluation and
              project management. It could also act as a facilitator to
              create areas for linkages and collaboration.


          (b) The area of volunteerism in the social sectors is still
              relatively underdeveloped. This has huge human resource
              potential that can be tapped in services to communities.
              With the year 2001 being declared the Year of the
              Volunteer by the UN, it is an opportune time to develop
              this.


          (c) The Department of Social Development has made great
              strides in establishing the Advisory Board on Social
              Development. In order to further consolidate a
              partnership with the NGO and business sectors, extensive
              civil society representation in partnership with
              government initiatives can foster closer working
              relationships that will ultimately benefit communities.


          (d) Universities in South Africa do prescribe community
              service for some students. For those students who do not
              study in particular faculties, there may be few
              opportunities to engage in community service.
              Universities in South Africa may undertake to do formal
              accreditation of community service as a way to encourage
              students. Schools could also adopt this programme.


     6.  Secretariat for Social Assistance (Brasilia)


          The aim of the Secretariat is not only to fight poverty, but
          also to address the high level of income inequality in Brazil.
          Brazil's level of income inequality is comparable to Malawi
          and South Africa. Furthermore, it is estimated that out of a
          total population of 170 million people, 13 million live below
          the poverty line. The poor are identified using the Human
          Development Index. Fragile members from poor communities,
          namely children, the elderly and people with disabilities, are
          targeted for intervention, and the programme currently reaches
          seven million people. Brazil's National Social Development
          Policy focuses primarily on the family.


          The Secretariat provides pre-school education for children up
          to-six years old. For the age group seven to fourteen, the aim
          of the programmes is to eradicate child labour by ensuring
          that the child remains at school. Provisions are also made for
          after-school programmes for children. Families are paid a
          basic income as an incentive to keep children at school.
          Children must have at least 75% attendance at both school and
          after-school activities. To date 396 000 children from 90
          municipalities in the country have benefitted from this
          programme.


          For youths, the Secretariat provides an extensive programme,
          entitled Youth Agents for Social Change. Youths who have
          dropped out of school are targeted for intervention. Many of
          them have already committed petty crimes and are thus at risk.
          They have to participate in social and therapeutic programmes.
          In addition to being recipients of services, they have to
          become involved in their local communities as agents for
          social change. While there is no pre-condition that they must
          attend school, they have to be committed to the programme. 38
          000 youths have benefitted from this programme.


          The Secretariat monitors these programmes carefully to assess
          the micro-impact of social interventions on families. An
          initial evaluation tool is used in families and impact is
          assessed after two years.


          Service delivery is highly decentralised, as the Brazilian
          Constitution has ensured that municipalities play a definitive
          role in the delivery of social services and programmes. Thus
          implementation of programmes has been decentralised to local
          municipality level. Local municipal councils transfer
          resources from national level to local municipalities for
          delivery and utilisation.
          Each social action agenda for communities must be established
          at local level. Furthermore, the social indicators that are to
          be addressed, coupled with an implementation, are developed.
          In this way needs are identified for prioritisation and
          implementation at local level. A cluster approach among the
          sectors of social assistance, education, health, environment
          and housing ensures an intersectoral approach to problem
          solving. The federal level is actively fostering the
          development of NGOs, particularly in smaller and rural
          municipalities where no NGOs currently exist.


          The delegation then visited a Youth for Social Change Project
          and engaged with youths who proved to be very articulate and
          displayed high levels of social competence. In this programme,
          youths are recipients of a therapeutic programme that involves
          psychological and peer counselling, creative therapy and
          social skills development. Part of their community service for
          social change is to assist in the administration of social
          security benefits for elderly beneficiaries. The youths
          expressed many positive sentiments about the way in which the
          programme has enhanced their sense of self-esteem and self-
          worth.


     7.  Comments and recommendations


          (a) The role of local government as the most appropriate
              instrument for social service delivery needs to be
              developed. South Africa has a rich history of community
              mobilisation for social change. The community networks
              need to be revitalised, and they can, in partnership with
              municipalities, identify and address needs at local
              level. Strong community involvement in change activities
              can foster broader social development, particularly in
              communities ravaged by crime and other social problems.
              Ownership of programmes and initiatives can thus be
              facilitated.


          (b) Close intersectoral involvement among social sector
              partners at local level will facilitate the
              identification of areas for closer collaboration, and
              will eradicate duplication of services.


          (c) The role of national departments in fostering civil
              society participation can be explored. In the event of
              direct service delivery being decentralised, national
              departments can play a facilitative role in this regard.
              National departments' monitoring and evaluation role in
              respect of the social impact of programmes can then also
              be more defined and actively implemented.


          (d) Beneficiaries of services becoming agents for social
              change is a philosophy worth exploring in this country.
              Many beneficiaries may lack self-worth if they consider
              themselves recipients of services. These feelings may be
              addressed if they could become active participants in
              programmes that seek to develop other facets of community
              life.


     8.  Briefing with project managers (Brasilia)


          The delegation met with project managers facilitating
          programmes targeting families, people with disabilities,
          children who have suffered sexual abuse, literacy programmes,
          youth programmes and early childhood education programmes.
          This was essentially a briefing session designed to inform the
          delegation about the activities involved in each of these
          programmes. Many similarities with South African initiatives
          in this regard were identified.


          The delegation noted with some concern that project managers
          were quite uncomfortable discussing issues of HIV and AIDS,
          and they were left wondering whether this does not form an
          important educative component within these programmes.


     9.  Secretariat for Housing, Sanitation and Urban Transportation
          (Brasilia)


          The Brazilian government provides the land and communities
          take charge of building houses. Housing development in urban
          areas is considered part of the social development initiatives
          within the city. This is a federal-led initiative and
          comprises varied forms of state subsidisation. In respect of
          gender equity, new legislation provides that female-headed
          households get preference when it comes to housing.
          Furthermore, women are also prioritised as title-holders for
          land. The old administration used to fund the builders, but
          now funds are going directly to the people themselves, who
          take charge of building their own homes.


          The delegation then visited a housing project. This low-cost
          housing is intended for those families who do have an income
          and are eligible to receive a state subsidy.


     10. Meeting with Senator Suplici (Brasilia)


          This Senator is leading the initiative for the introduction of
          a basic income grant in Brazil. The initiative is premised on
          the condition that every Brazilian must unconditionally have
          the right to a basic income grant. The aim is to ensure that
          everyone has the right to participate in the wealth of the
          nation. It is his understanding that the current federal
          government system of social assistance is too modest and
          cannot successfully free poor families from poverty. Currently
          in Brazil, families qualify for social assistance if their
          income is half the minimum wage and they have children under
          the age of 14 years. The social assistance varies depending on
          the number of children per family: For a family with one
          child, it is 15 Reais (1US$ = 2 Reais); for two children it is
          30 Reais; and for three or more children, it is 45 Reais.


          The Senator has proposed a social assistance system whereby
          the basic income grant must be guaranteed to complement the
          per capita income of a person with an income of less than half
          the minimum wage. Poor families will benefit in this way, as
          individuals within large or extended families can
          substantially augment the household income. A costing exercise
          has revealed that paying every individual a basic income will
          be roughly equivalent to the amount Brazil is paying in
          foreign debt. The idea is that the basic income grant will
          ensure that monies spent will be in the primary interest of
          the Brazilian people.


          The Senator has enjoyed wide support in Brazil for his
          proposal, but sustained advocacy work is needed for the
          proposal to be formally adopted.


     11. Comments and recommendations


          (a) It is likely that the Committee of Enquiry into a
              Comprehensive Social Security System is considering the
              proposal of a basic income grant. It is important that a
              thorough costing exercise be conducted to determine the
              cost of such an initiative, as well as its potential for
              sustainability. A costing exercise must include not only
              the payment cost of a basic income grant, but also the
              administrative costs that will be incurred. Given the
              current lack of capacity in the administration of social
              security, including administrative costs in this exercise
              is of vital importance.


          (b) The interface with other forms of social assistance needs
              to be investigated if a basic income grant is considered.


          (c) It may be necessary to institute legislative reform in the
              area of social assistance, should a basic income grant or
              other forms of comprehensive social security be
              considered.


          (d) It will be necessary to explore different financing
              mechanisms, should a basic income grant be considered.
              The method of financing needs to be sustainable. Some
              suggestions have included an increase in VAT, and various
              forms of taxation from middle and upper income earners.


          (e) In Alaska, where the basic income grant is operative, a
              referendum was held on this issue. People's support can
              be gauged as well as proposals for taxation of middle and
              higher income earners can be highlighted. This route may
              be worthwhile considering.


          (f) The Committee of Enquiry may benefit from contact with the
              Basic Income European Network, which is active in
              advocating that countries adopt the idea of a basic
              income grant as a primary method of alleviating poverty.


          (g) Senator Suplici also indicated a complete willingness to
              engage with the Committee of Enquiry in respect of his
              technical expertise. That committee may benefit from
              interactions with him.


     12. Visit to Favelas (Rio De Janeiro)


          The delegation met with community leaders and activists
          working towards the social and economic improvement of the
          slum areas in Rio. Community leaders are the focal people in
          contact with government officials in the areas of housing,
          electrification, sanitation and the provision of water to
          homes in the area. Government officials are briefed on the
          needs of the community and they then contract the necessary
          people to develop basic services and infrastructure. Community
          leaders take responsibility for ensuring active community
          participation and payment of municipal services.


          This model is working very well, as a walkabout by the
          delegation through the area highlighted the numerous and
          significant improvements that have been effected in the living
          conditions of people. Local labourers and artisans from the
          community are employed in building, construction, waste
          disposal and other manual activities, and in this way
          employment opportunities are created for the previously
          unemployed. Community members also feel greater ownership in
          the improvements that are being effected, as was evident from
          the maintenance activities in which local people were
          involved.


          The delegation then visited a day-care centre in the area that
          operates on a 24-hour basis to accommodate those people who
          work night shift. The day-care centre is privately funded,
          mostly from businesses whose employees leave their children
          there. The children appeared very content and well cared for,
          and they seemed to enjoy a very relaxed and contained
          environment.


     13. ACCOR Brasil (Sao Paulo)


          This company offers 19 products/brands in two large sectors,
          namely the hotel and service industries, the latter mainly in
          the food and restaurant business. In the year 2000, ACCOR
          issued 500 000 000 vouchers, 5 000 000 food baskets were
          distributed, 120 000 000 meals were served and there were
          12 000 000 users of their services, including ACCOR
          restaurants in airports and bus terminals. ACCOR has developed
          the ticket system as a form of social assistance and currently
          have 5 000 000 daily users, 200 000 suppliers and affiliated
          establishments, 60 000 corporate customers and 23 000
          employees.


          The worker food benefit programme has been operating in Brazil
          since 1977. The main goal of this programme is to contribute
          to the improvement of workers' nutritional status, with the
          aim of improving productivity, preventing occupational
          diseases and increasing their quality of life.


          In respect of ACCOR's food voucher services, this programme is
          operative in 31 countries on three continents. The food
          voucher scheme ensures that users can only purchase food with
          their vouchers/cards. The purchase of alcohol and cigarettes
          is not included.


          (a) Operation of food voucher service scheme


              *   ACCOR produces and delivers the vouchers ordered by
                   an employer/company.


              *   The company gives the vouchers to its employees.


              *   Employees use their vouchers to have lunch at the
                   cafeteria or to purchase food from a
                   supermarket/shop.


              *   ACCOR reimburses the affiliated establishment for the
                   vouchers.


          (b) Benefits of food voucher programme


              *   It enables an employee and his/her family to buy
                   basic food products from a wide network of outlets.


              *   The vouchers are not subject to employers' social
                   charges and employee income tax.


          An innovation in the Brazilian food voucher scheme has been
          the introduction of a smart card as an alternative to the
          paper voucher system. This Smart Card uses available
          technology to reduce costs and to increase the quality, safety
          and efficacy of the system. The advantages to the employers
          include no distribution to employees, no insurance, no loss
          due to theft, better control and less fraud as cards can only
          be used by the cardholder (there is a password), employers and
          employees can block cards at any time.


          Other advantages include savings as purchases of any amount
          can be effected, as well as savings made by buying products on
          sale/special at any shop or supermarket. In the event that the
          user loses the card or it is stolen, the user does not lose
          the benefit if customer service is called and the card is
          blocked. Administrative costs are substantially reduced, as
          there are no monthly procedures to receive the benefit, nor
          special procedures to be able to use the card.


          A pharmacy card has also been introduced, specially designed
          for those companies that want to allow their employees to use
          part of their monthly income to pay for medicines.


          Members of the delegation were each given a smart card and
          allowed to purchase a product in a supermarket. In this way
          the delegation could experience the transaction and see the
          way in which the system operates in practice.


     14. Comments and recommendations


          (a) The Committee of Enquiry could investigate a broader
              application of the food voucher/smart card system in this
              country. Its application in providing household food
              security to the poor is a successful method of ensuring
              that vulnerable members of households benefit directly
              from social assistance.


          (b) To date, the main form of social security has been income
              transfers. Targeting poor families to benefit from food
              transfers can contribute significantly to improved health
              and enhanced learning capacity of children.


 E.  Challenges that emerged during tour


     1.  Committee of Enquiry into Comprehensive Social Security System


          There is a need to reconsider whether the ultimate aim of
          social security in South Africa is essentially poverty
          alleviation/eradication. The Committee may want to consider to
          what extent a new comprehensive social security system will
          address deepening income inequality in this country.


     2.  Social development sector


          This new paradigm aims to build human capacity through
          fostering self-sufficiency in individuals, families and
          communities. One of the primary aims within this sector to
          date has been poverty alleviation. The main challenge to the
          social development sector and its sectoral partners is to
          conceptualise and devise strategies that address income
          inequality aligned with poverty alleviation measures already
          in place.


 F.  Future plans


     The Committee will actively engage the social development sector
     in debating the merits of such an approach. Furthermore, it aims
     to undertake further investigations in other countries into
     initiatives that align poverty alleviation measures with
     strategies to reduce income inequality within the social
     development sector.