THURSDAY, 14 JUNE 2001 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:04.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Before we proceed, I just want to remind hon members that a determination has been made in terms of the time allocated for the moving of any motion. Any motion that exceeds one and a half minutes will be interrupted. I am merely reminding hon members; the Whips should have informed them.

Ms C BOTHA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the DA -

(1) notes that the SAA scandal …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! In terms of this House there is no DA, hon member. Could you correct that?

Ms C BOTHA: Thank you, Chairperson. I will correct that. I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes that the SAA scandal will cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of rands and that it is the duty of the Minister of Public Enterprises to oversee the SAA;

(2) calls on the Government to take the necessary political and legal responsibility and, specifically, to remove Minister Stella Sigcau from Cabinet for her failure to exercise her responsibilities properly at the relevant time;

(3) calls on the chairperson of Transnet, Louise Tager, to resign; and

(4) enquiries from Minister Radebe why he has taken so long to become aware of the extent of the disaster and seeks his assurance that similar expensive shocks do not await taxpayers in respect of other public enterprises.

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes with concern the shocking facts published in today’s Cape Times on the gap between rich and poor in Cape Town, where in terms of per capita income and disposable income blacks are still earning less than whites;

(2) further notes the impact of HIV/Aids, illiteracy and unemployment which has emerged in a report entitled Cape Town’s Economy: Current Trends and Future Prospects, where the number of deaths is expected to rise to 62 000 from 2000 to 2005 and 40 000 deaths a year by 2015;

(3) also notes that the above will lower the rate of economic growth and reduce the economically active population; and

(4) calls on the provincial government to note the above as a matter of priority to the province.

Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes that the Durban police have impounded 700 imported second-hand vehicles, destined for illegal sale, at Durban harbour storage facility on Wednesday;

(2) also notes that these luxury vehicles, imported mainly from Japan, were destined for other Southern African markets;

(3) further notes that the importers fraudulently authenticated authorisation which indicated that the vehicles had left South Africa, while they in fact remained in the country; and

(4) welcomes this breakthrough by South African Police Services and resolves to encourage the SAPS to continue to clamp down on these fraudsters who rob our country’s revenue services of billions of rands.

          RESUMPTION OF AIR STRIKES BY GOVERNMENT OF SUDAN

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that the government of the Sudan has announced that it will ``resume’’ air strikes against the South and West in the Sudan;

(2) further notes that, after announcing a halt to air strikes on 24 May, there have been at least eleven well-documented aerial attacks on civilians during the so-called halt - in Acumcum, Adet (twice), Bararud, Lumon, Mapel, Marial Bai, Nyamlell, Tonj (twice) and Yabus, displacing 57 000 people, joining the millions already displaced; and

(3) calls upon the Minister of Foreign Affairs to encourage the warring parties to suspend violence and to get around a table for talks about talks, leading to a forum that will provide a negotiated solution to the problems of Sudan.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

ACQUISITION OF PREMIER FISHING SOUTH AFRICA (PTY) LTD BY SEKUNJALO GROUP WITH HELP FROM IDC

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that the IDC funded the Sekunjalo Group acquisition of Premier Fishing South Africa (Pty) Ltd and that this company had a significant presence in the Saldanha Bay community on the West Coast while still owned by the Premier Fishing Group of South Africa;

(2) also notes that since Sekunjalo took over the company (with IDC support), their total staff employment of approximately 1 200 employees has been reduced by almost 500;

(3) further notes that most of these retrenched employees are from the West Coast communities of Saldanha Bay and Port Nolloth; (4) believes that former employees are still awaiting some moneys owed to them and that the IDC has a responsibility and duty to provide funding to worthy business initiatives that focus on sustainable community development in all areas of South Africa;

(5) therefore calls on the Minister of Trade and Industry to ensure that the company, Premier Fishing Group of SA (Pty) Ltd, is investigated so that the public and the department can know who the IDC funded - the workers, or a few privileged individuals who have enriched themselves; and

(6) takes note that the IDC cannot be an institution of privilege and individual enrichment without benefiting the South African society at large.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] In the light of the objection, the motion will not be proceeded with. It will become notice of a motion.

   STATEMENTS OF DR IKE NTSIKELELO NZO ON VIOLENT CRIME SITUATION

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) takes note of the statements of Sebokeng-based specialist psychiatrist, Dr Ike Ntsikelelo Nzo, son of the former Foreign Affairs Minister, the late Mr Alfred Nzo, in respect of the present totally unacceptable violent crime situation in South Africa and the terrible effects thereof on him and on the South African public;

(2) also notes that Dr Nzo contemplates emigrating and that thousands of professional South Africans like Dr Nzo emigrate annually from South Africa because of the unacceptable violent crime situation;

(3) further notes that violent crime in South Africa affects all the people in South Africa extremely negatively …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Can members in that corner please keep peace, because we cannot hear the proceedings? Proceed, hon member.

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I continue:

(4) resolves to use all the powers at its disposal, especially in respect of its oversight function and holding the Government accountable in terms of section 92(2) of the Constitution, so that the number of violent crimes in our country can be reduced drastically as soon as possible; and

(5) requests Dr Nzo and other South Africans who contemplate emigrating please to reconsider and to rather help to build a prosperous, open- opportunity society in our country in which every law-abiding person is free, responsible, equal before the law, safe, secure, and has the opportunity to improve the quality of his or her life.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] There is an objection, and in the light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

 CONGRATULATIONS TO PRESIDENT ON SUCCESSFUL VISIT TO UNITED KINGDOM

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) expresses its heartfelt congratulations on President Mbeki’s successful visit to the United Kingdom;

(2) notes the enormous and overwhelming reception for our President in the United Kingdom;

(3) further notes that the joint communiqué between President Mbeki and Prime Minister Tony Blair, whose partnership would aim to prevent conflict -

   (a)  spreads benefits of technology and research;


   (b)  strengthens democracy and human rights;


   (c)  ensures that African countries have a more effective voice in
       international institutions;


   (d)  reduces barriers to trade;


   (e)  encourages private sector development assistance;


   (f)  tackles HIV/Aids;


   (g)  ensures reforms to the world trade access to world markets; and


   (h)  closes the widening gap between rich and poor countries;

(4) acknowledges the commitment of Britain to the implementation of the objectives of the Millennium Africa Recovery Plan; and

(5) recognises that these are crucial for our own economic development.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

   ACHIEVEMENT OF FREE STATE SCHOLAR ACCOMMODATED IN NATAL SCHOOL

                         (Draft Resolution)

Me C S BOTHA: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:

Dat die Raad, op die vooraand van die viering van Jeugdag, kennis neem -

(1) van Moferefere Lekgetha, seun van ‘n Vrystaatse plaasarbeider, wat toegang tot ‘n Vrystaatse skool geweier is omdat sy taalgebruik volgens die skoolhoof nie goed genoeg was nie; (2) dat -

   (a)  daarna in 'n Natalse privaatskool vir hom 'n plek gevind is;


   (b)  hy vanjaar matriek daar skryf; en


   (c)  hy gekies is vir die Natal Skole Rugby A-span en in Julie aan
       die Cravenweek gaan deelneem; en

(3) verder, dat ons die les hieruit onderskryf, om geen kind of jongeling geleenthede te ontneem om redes van kortstondige politieke gewin nie, waardeur nie alleenlik die Vrystaat en die kinders nie, maar die hele gemeenskap die onvermydelike prys sal betaal. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Ms C S BOTHA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That, on the eve of the Youth Day festivities, the Council notes -

(1) that Moferefere Lekgetha, the son of a Free State farm labourer, was denied access to a Free State school because, according to the principal, his command of the language was not good enough;

(2) that -

   (a)  he was thereafter accommodated in a private school in Natal;


   (b)  he is writing matric there this year; and


   (c)  he has been chosen for the Natal Schools Rugby A-team and will
       be participating in the Craven Week in July; and

(3) furthermore, that we subscribe to the lesson to be learnt from this, that no child or youth should be deprived of opportunities for reasons of short-lived political gain, for which not only the Free State and the children, but all of society will pay the inevitable price.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                     25TH ANNIVERSARY OF 16 JUNE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that Saturday, 16 June 2001, is the 25th anniversary of the June
       16 Soweto uprising;


   (b)  that this day is of historic significance as young people in
       Soweto and later throughout the country resisted the apartheid
       policies and Bantu education system;


   (c)  the defenceless and unarmed youths who selflessly gave their
       lives for the liberation of our people; and


   (d)  that the heroic struggles and sacrifices of this youth
       generation played an important role in the building of a new
       nonracial, nonsexist and united South Africa;

(2) commemorates the 25th anniversary of June 16; and

(3) calls upon the youth to unite in action to fight racism, poverty and the scourge of HIV/Aids with the same commitment and dedication demonstrated by the generation of 1976 in the struggle against apartheid.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you. All 10 provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare … [Interjections.] Hon members, I cannot allow this noise. I cannot allow it.

Ten provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to.

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, on a point of order: We only have nine provinces. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you! Nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

PROMOTING AND CELEBRATING UNITY AND RECONCILIATION OF YOUTH IN SOUTH AFRICA AND REMEMBERING 25th ANNIVERSARY OF 1976 SOWETO UPRISING

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take this opportunity to welcome the hon the Minister as well as to thank her for agreeing to participate in the debate on this most important matter. I therefore call upon the hon the Minister to address this House and hope Mr Van Niekerk will not interrupt her.

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, and the National Council of Provinces, I want to start today’s debate by dedicating it to one young man and to all South African youth, reflecting the diversity and working towards unity in diversity of all South African young people. Solomon Mahlangu was sentenced to death by hanging on 2 March

1. He was actually hanged on 2 March. Solomon Mahlangu was one of the 1976 youth. He was too young to die. Let me quote him:

My blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom. Tell my people that I love them. They must continue the fight.

I thought it was pertinent to raise this today as we are looking at united action to fight racism, poverty, the scourge of HIV/Aids, and to deal with matters of unemployment, the challenges around education and with building a nonracial, nonsexist democracy. Central to the successful building of such a democracy is our youth.

I want to proceed by, at this stage, quoting our President when he raised the question on 5 April this year at quite an important national gathering. He asked:

Why did our youth perform heroic feats of struggle in 1976 and later years? Why does our country owe them a permanent debt? The country had no possibility to make progress in social spheres - political, economic, social, cultural - because white minority rule had become a heavy chain on all development. A victorious democratic revolution was a necessary precondition for everything that favoured and was in the interests, both of the country and the overwhelming majority of our people; that the democratic revolution could not succeed, and therefore further progress could not be achieved, unless the oppressed were prepared to sacrifice in an unprecedented manner, because the ruling group and social forces it represented were firmly opposed to and feared change.

The recognition of this reality had come earlier in our history with the decision to wage an armed struggle. The situation demanded that the oppressed people as a whole understood that they could not delegate the task of struggle to somebody else, while they waited for victory day, so that they could join the celebrations. Hence, in the centrality of mass struggle in our strategy for victory of the national democratic revolution, the youth added enormously to that mass struggle.

I think today we should remind ourselves why we owe our youth a permanent debt, but, above all, why we must ensure that the youth play a proactive role in the transformation of South Africa in building the nonracial, nonsexist democracy this country so desperately needs.

We have come some way since 1976 in recognising the rights and uniqueness of our youth, in providing for their developmental needs and in creating a critical niche for them to be heard and contribute to the building of our nation.

The National Youth Commission, as we are all well aware, was established in June 1996 as part of a comprehensive plan of Government to address the challenges facing young men and women in our country. A national youth policy was formulated, which provided the basic tool for the establishment of youth development programmes throughout the country.

With the testing of the programmes and policies since 1997, a new youth policy framework is in its final stages of completion. This framework is based on principles, such as redressing imbalances, gender inclusivity, combating racism, and youth participation and responsiveness. It asserts that youth development requires the support of all sectors and role-players towards the goal of achieving a holistic and integrated approach to youth development.

In addition to the policy, there are numerous actions that have started being put in place. I think today we should, once again, acknowledge that it is seven years since 1994, 25 years since 1976. We should, hence, look at the kind of interventions that have started out. We should look at the role of this institution - Parliament - in giving the impetus to extending the implementation of programmes on scale, in order to turn around some of the complexities that we are facing and that youth are facing.

Let me make reference to one of those areas - youth unemployment. Between 1970 and 1995 formal employment increased by just under 20%, to about 9 million, of young people. We are talking about formal employment; we are not talking about informal employment. We determined that employment data indicated that the key structural shift that has taken place in the economy over the past 24 years, has been one that moved from a dependence on primary sectors, which have been in decline over the past two decades while simultaneously witnessing a rapid rise in the growth of the services sector.

I think what we should acknowledge, having noted that, is the fact, when we look at youth unemployment and hence the challenge to redress racism in our country in a real sense - and going back to the figures I noted, it was not just youth unemployment, it was unemployment in general - that the youth make up 70% of the unemployed, that 33% of unemployment applies to young people between the ages of 16 and 24 and, that, of course, when we look at the racial differentials in the unemployment rates, we are talking for the 25 to 34 age group. African unemployment is 24%, and 2,5% for whites. Why do I raise that?

I do not raise this for us to simply lament this issue. I raise this today for us to, once again, remind ourselves of the challenge we confront 25 years after June 16, 1976; and to remind ourselves that education is key to all young people in order to ensure, through appropriate education and skills development, that they are able to enter the economy that is changing in the appropriate manner.

I think the second point that we should raise here today is the fact that 1976 was a major lesson that we have to consider when looking at how we unite in our diversity. Language could not be a catalyst if divisibly utilised. It could lead to the kind of implosion that may be counterproductive to our building of a nonracial, nonsexist democracy.

When we look at this institution today, we need to say to ourselves that it is different. Earlier today I read the Hansard of 1997. If hon members should venture to go back to Hansard and read the debate of 1976, it makes for interesting reading. It reflects that many of the representatives from that House were unwilling to take into account the reality of what our country faced at that point.

Let us look at the challenges and realities that face us as a democracy. What do we do collectively to change it? Through ``Oom Gov’’, Comrade Govan Mbeki, one of the foremost intellectuals and outstanding fighters for justice who, at one stage, played a central role in youth affairs, we are fortunate to have in this Parliament many of the youths of 1976 and the earlier years, although a lot older now than then.

The former president, Mr Nelson Mandela, was also part of this institution in the spirit of the Youth Leaguers who were willing to play a role in making a difference. Shall we not ensure that we take forward that spirit in a constructive way? Let us ensure that we take forward, in a different manner, the struggle that Solomon Mahlangu asked his people to continue with. Today ``his people’’ are all the people of South Africa, irrespective of race, age, disability or gender.

Let us have the courage to take forward the struggle for the likes of Solomon Mahlangu and those who lost their lives. Let us, at the same time, remember mothers on different sides of the struggle who lost sons. We have the opportunity to coalesce and take forward the struggle for progress: a struggle for progress for the youth of this country, a struggle for progress that will make a real difference.

Let us see today, in this debate, whether we have the courage to let the blood of Solomon Mahlangu indeed water the tree of freedom for our country. [Applause.]

Mr B WILLEM: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members of this House, June 16 this year is a remarkable time in the history of this country because it marks 25 years since the Soweto uprising.

Comrade Minister Essop Pahad announced the theme for this year’s Youth Day as ``Nonracialism: A youth vision for the 21st century.’’

Most of us sitting in this Chamber can give a personal account of the dark days of the Soweto uprising. I take the floor today as a proud representative of the titanic army of liberation, the glorious army of liberation, the army of South Africa, the ANC. I rise, fully aware of the overwhelming support that this, the oldest liberation movement in Africa, enjoys inside and outside this Chamber for its programmes and progress and the changes it has made since 1994.

These changes are, of course, not felt by the opposition because they were born with silver spoons in their mouths. This country was a paradise for them and it was a hell for us. The ``Dom Alliance’’ sowed seeds of destruction for a long time and they left the country in ruins. Now they blame us for the ruin they themselves created.

I would like to deal with something that has been mentioned many a time, namely history. I want to tell the opposition that history takes and it gives. History has claimed a lot of our people who were killed by the racist white regime, but it has also given us wisdom.

Today we know how to reconcile our country. When one talks about transformation, one talks about changing what apartheid has done and what we want to do in our own country. All along the line, history was based on us, and now we are making our own history. The opposition may complain, but we are going to do what we want to do.

Apartheid has done damage to us. Verwoerd himself said in 1953 that Africans had no right to learn mathematics and other subjects that would undermine the supremacy of white people. We therefore became garden boys who drew water and worked for the whites. If one did not do that, one went to prison, or underground, or was killed. That is what happened in this country of ours. That is why, today, we are attempting to create one nation from people who, for years, were indoctrinated, cajoled, coerced, intimidated and forced to believe that they belonged to a superior nation.

They believed that their tribe was exclusive and pure and ran the risk of contamination by members of other tribes. They believed that by divine ordination their tribe was destined to rule, and was endowed with superior intellect over others.

It is tragic that some accepted this and internalised it. Others rejected it and internalised resistance to it. There are those who cannot understand why, suddenly, no one is looking up at them with envy. They insist that nothing has changed for them, because our primary goal is to change the lives of those who have been, and are still, suffering the effects of the system of the NP which the DP secretly hopes to reinvent.

The ANC has fought for change and continues to fight for change to bring about a better life for all - all whites, blacks and everybody. It has been a long and bitter struggle for the African people to be recognised as bona fide members of the human race - cursed, brutally murdered, socially ostracised by the white regime.

I am a victim of the apartheid regime. I was shot while fighting for the liberation of our country. The pain we suffered, the racial discrimination we endured, finally paid dividends. Today we are free.

Most of us had no youth to speak of because of the uprising, because instead of silencing us as those bullets intended to, it made us more determined and invincible. Perhaps it was our youth, but we did not think that we would die fighting for what we believed in. This determination of young people to liberate our country from the stranglehold of racism and inequality is not the exclusive domain of the Soweto uprising.

We can look back at our history and marvel at our mothers and fathers, who stood strong in the face of such wide-scale oppression and still taught us the real values of life. We thank our leadership in Government, who have loudly and clearly, through every piece of transformative legislation and policy, ensured that our youth will never again be discriminated against.

Today we celebrate with our young people the new possibilities that have opened up for them. No longer will they be forced, as we were, to endure the atrocities of apartheid. Today our young people, when they do not like what is happening, have the freedom to voice their opinion without fearing for their lives.

I want to thank our comrades who gave up their lives in 1976 and throughout all the years of struggle so that we could live in freedom. [Applause.]

Dr P J C NEL: Voorsitter, ek is die pa van drie kinders en vier kleinkinders, dus lê die jeug my baie na aan die hart.

Ons kom uit ‘n verlede waarin ons ‘n verdeelde nasie was. Vir die grootste deel van die twintigste eeu het wit, swart, bruin en Indiër kinders in aparte skole skoolgegaan. Wit kinders is bevoordeel deur die stelsel. Die onderwysbeleid van die regering van daardie tyd het aanleiding gegee tot die Soweto-opstande, een van die donkerste dae in ons geskiedenis, ‘n gebeurtenis wat nooit moes plaasgevind het nie. Dit het die lewens van talle jongmense onherroeplik verander. Dit het gebeur omdat die regte van ‘n bepaalde groep van ons jeug misken is.

Ek wil vandag by die regering van die dag pleit om nie weer die foute van die verlede te herhaal nie. Laat ons nooit Sowetodag vergeet nie. Laat ons liewer ‘n monument bou wat kan dien as ‘n simbool van dit wat nooit weer mag herhaal word nie, en wat ons daaraan sal herinner dat versoening nou ‘n werklikheid moet word.

Jeugdag moet ‘n dag van hoop wees vir almal, nie net vir die jeug nie, maar ook vir die ouer mense, want as daar hoop is vir die jeug, dan is daar ook hoop vir die ouer mense dat hulle op hulle oudag versorg en nie misbruik of mishandel sal word, soos wat tans die geval is nie.

As ons wil verseker dat dit wat gebeur het nooit weer gebeur nie, sal ons moet omsien na die regte van ons jeug, en sal ons moet sorg dat die waardes wat bevorderlik is vir nasiebou reeds op skoolvlak by ons kinders ingeskerp word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Dr P J C NEL: Chairperson, I am the father of three children and four grandchildren, therefore the youth lies very close to my heart.

We come from a past in which we were a divided nation. For the greatest part of the 20th century white, black, coloured and Indian children attended separate schools. White children were privileged by the system. The education policy of the government of the time gave rise to the Soweto uprisings, one of the darkest days of our history, an occurrence which should never have taken place. This happening changed the lives of many young people irrevocably. This happened because the rights of a certain group of our youth were disregarded.

Today I want with plead to the Government of the day not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Let us never forget Soweto Day. Let us rather build a monument which could serve as a symbol of that which should never be repeated, and which should remind us that reconciliation should now become a reality.

Youth Day should be a day of hope for everyone, not only for the youth, but also for the older people, because if there is hope for the youth then there is also hope for the older people that they will be taken care of in their old age and that they will not be abused or ill-treated as is presently the case.

If we want to ensure that that which happened will never happen again we will have to see to the rights of our youth and we should ensure that the values which are conducive to nation-building should already be impressed upon the children at school level.]

An important value conducive to nation-building which we must impress on the hearts and minds of our children is that rights imply duties. One does not simply have a right, one also has a duty, a responsibility.

In a country with a violent society like South Africa, it is of the utmost importance to impress the need to solve conflict in a nonviolent manner on the hearts and the minds of our youth. We have to teach them the skills to do so already at school level. The health and the wellbeing of our youth must be one of our highest priorities. This task seems almost impossible if one takes into consideration the impact HIV/Aids, drugs, child abuse and crime in general have on the lives of our youth.

HIV/Aids poses the biggest single threat to our youth and nation-building. It is estimated that 300 000 learners at schools in South Africa will die in the next 10 years. According to a study executed by Sadtu, it was found that an average of 40 teachers per month die of Aids.

The fact that the transmission of HIV/Aids is largely due to immorality makes it also of the utmost importance that moral standards and values be impressed on the hearts and minds of the learners and the teachers. A report recently compiled by Human Rights Watch on the sexual abuse of young girls in South African schools states inter alia that some girls as young as nine are being gang-raped in toilets by classmates, or drugged and molested by teachers in dormitories.

I am very grateful that the Department of Education has since then announced the pilot projects to empower teachers to deal with the problem.

‘n Ander baie ernstige gevaar waaraan die jeug vandag blootgestel word, is die dwelmgevaar. Die gebruik van lewensgevaarlike middels soos kokaïne en opium blyk deesdae ‘n alledaagse gebeurtenis by skole te wees.

Ek wil, ten slotte, vandag hulde bring aan die jeug van Suid- Afrika, veral aan dié wat ten spyte van al die aanslae waaraan hulle blootgestel was, en nog steeds is, bo uitkom. Hulle is die room van Suid-Afrika, en ons is trots op hulle prestasies. Ek is bewus daarvan dat daar sommige van die jeug is wat daaraan dink om die land te verlaat. My boodskap aan hulle is om asseblief weer te dink. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Another very serious danger to which our youth are exposed today, is the danger of drugs. The use of perilous substances such as cocaine and opium seems to be an everyday occurrence at schools.

In conclusion I want to pay tribute today to the youth of South Africa, especially to those who, despite the assaults to which they are exposed, still come out on top. They are the cream of South Africa and we are proud of their achievements. I am aware of the fact that some of the youth are thinking of leaving the country. My message to them is to please reconsider.]

They should reconsider before they leave the country. We need them in South Africa. We need their skills. What we need most, more than ever, is a new pioneering spirit that only young people can really lead with.

A British statesman once said:

Almost everything that is great has been done by youth.

We say viva the youth! Viva! [Applause.]

Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, hon members of this House, it is exactly 25 years ago today - this being the occasion of the anniversary of the Soweto uprisings, an occasion on which young people of this country remember with fondness the heroes and heroines of our struggle - that those selfless and gallant fighters of our struggle paid the ultimate price by laying down their lives so that all of us who sit in this Chamber could find ourselves where we are.

One of the reasons for these selfless and gallant fighters of our struggle paying the ultimate price was precisely their steadfast refusal to accept what we considered, at that time, sawdust education. They overwhelmingly reasserted the view held by the majority of our people that we needed to employ all the means necessary and available at the time to defeat the morally repugnant and abhorrent system of apartheid in this country.

It was these selfless leaders of 16 June 1976 who, through their heroic actions, propelled the struggles of the oppressed majority to the greatest heights and subsequently produced the majority of leaders who are today driving the process of transformation in this country. For this, we should and must lift our banner in memory of the Tsietsi Mashininis, the Solomon Mahlangus and many others who disappeared without trace up to this very day. We had hoped that through a process as helpful as the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was we would have the opportunity ourselves as South Africans to know the truth about some of our comrades.

Other sections of our society did not rise to this challenge, for we recognised ourselves that the route we wanted to take with regard to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was not the most definitive and comprehensive period which the TRC itself was covering, nor did we understand it to be a court of law. To us it was an important contribution on the way to truth and reconciliation in this country.

It would be a fitting tribute to these heroes and heroines of our struggle for us to continue in the struggle to dismantle what remains of apartheid practices and attitudes in our society. It must be said that without this major step, the one we took via the the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, reconciliation would have been transient and, indeed, a very odd or false hope on the lips of fools.

We entered the new millennium having had our formal political freedom, brought about, to a very large extent, by this single, most important event which took place on 16 June 1976. It is this event that ushered in a new era of peace and justice in this country. The foundation has indeed been laid for our society to develop into a truly nonracial and nonsexist society.

We would therefore be failing in our duty and, indeed, committing political hara-kiri of the worst kind, if we ourselves did not continue to implement our programmes for transformation in this country. As the ANC, we understand this full well. We must, therefore, deepen and sharpen our resolve to attain continued peace, democracy, human rights, and socioeconomic development in this country, to improve the material conditions of the youth and, indeed, to provide lasting security for all of our people.

The ANC, and indeed the masses of our people who fought against this morally repugnant system of apartheid, value this achievement, a victory that was not easily or soon attained. Our people were prepared, and still are, to reconcile with our erstwhile oppressors, but would defend - this point must be made - this victory in this country with all the means at their disposal. We dare not fail the heroes and heroines who laid down their lives on 16 June so that all of us could sit in this Chamber this afternoon.

All of these victories will be meaningless if we do not confront the complex challenges facing us a nation, across the political divide and spectrum. These tasks are made all the more urgent and the difficulty of implementing them further compounded by the massive social disparities that we inherited as a country after 1994.

The apartheid state - it must be said - was set up to entrench racial disparities. They had a well-oiled machinery in place which was there to serve the interests of the minority at the expense of the majority of our people in this country. Because it was illegal and illegitimate, this apartheid machinery, through its racist practices, relied on criminal actions to shore up its fortunes, and pulled the rest of society into the maelstrom of crime and corruption. This we will change, whatever it takes.

The central challenge, therefore, remains the doubling and redoubling of all our efforts to fight the demon of racism in our country, to create a truly nonracial South Africa so that the poorest of the poor in our country, of whom the majority are Africans, are accorded a humane and respectable quality of life.

The masses of our people rightly pronounced in Kliptown, Johannesburg, in 1955, on the occasion of the Freedom Charter, that: ``The doors of learning and culture shall be opened.’’ We meant that young people of this country, such as Andrew Babeile, would be where they belong, in the classroom, and not in the jail cells where they find themselves this afternoon, precisely as a result of provocative and racially inspired assaults on them.

When we said that the doors of learning and culture shall be opened, we meant that the likes of the late Tshepo Matloga, from the Northern Province, would also be in the classroom this afternoon, preparing themselves to be playing a very constructive role in the reconstruction and development of this country, which is what 16 June, in the main, was all about. They are no longer with us. As young people in this country, we will and must continue to channel our anger - the point has got to be made again

• properly to fight the demon of racism in all its manifestations. We will be committing a monumental blunder and, indeed, a historical error of great, enormous proportions if we do not continue with this noble fight.

We will use the moral and political legitimacy we enjoy as the ANC to defend the gains we have made in creating a nonracial society, although certain parties, which have no hope of assuming power in this country, at least not in the next 80 years, will continue to employ clandestine and very innocuous means in order to subvert this agenda. We will stop them in their tracks.

Racism exists, and we must use our battle cry, the very battle cry we used in the mid-80’s, namely ``attacking the enemy on all fronts’’, to ensure that we unleash our anger on the demon of racism in this country. No amount of self-induced amnesia will change the reality of the existence and the continued perpetuation of racist practices against our people in this country.

Our hope for the future, therefore, depends on our resolution as a nation to deal with this demon. When we succeed in changing the status quo in respect of racially bigoted mindsets and attitudes, we shall not only be improving our own quality of life, but also be laying the foundation for a future for our children and grandchildren, a future filled with hope. We must, therefore, reinforce our own hope in the future of this country and, indeed, the future of our nation.

The optimism of hard work and a brighter future shall prevail over the pessimism of armchair whining from certain parties in this Chamber. As Comrade Madiba, our very dear leader, an icon of the struggles of the peoples of South Africa and the father of the nation, once said: (Hansard: Joint Sittings 1999, col 22)

As we confounded the prophets of doom, we shall defy today’s merchants of cynicism and despair. We shall … fully dismantle apartheid and achieve true reconciliation. Our hopes will become reality. The foundation has been laid - the building is in progress. With a new generation of leaders and a people that rolls up its sleeves in partnerships for change, we can and shall build the country of our dreams.

We should therefore make bold to say: Aluta Continua! Long Live June 16, long live! [Applause.]

Mr H T SOGONI: Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers and members, the event of 16 June 1976 is now part of our rich history. On that day, black children made a clear statement to the government of the time and to the world that they would defend - and so they did - with life and blood, their right to be taught in the language of their choice, and rejected with vigour the imposition of a medium of instruction and learning that bolstered the policies in which the affected had played no part.

Their message was conveyed and the world acknowledged. Our children claimed victory for themselves, but, most remarkably, also for the generation of learners that came after them. The price they paid was, admittedly, a heavy one, but today the nation still echoes the noble cause for which some of those children died. Some were maimed, some were deprived of further learning opportunities and were forced to leave their country of birth. Today’s debate therefore gives us an opportunity to salute them as heroes who made things happen, who achieved perhaps more than anyone before them did.

Political liberation, however, did not mean total victory for the youth. It only served to create for the youth a political environment and legitimacy conducive to pursuing other facets of liberty. New challenges have emerged. Basic human rights are guaranteed for all, but some rights are still denied to some of the youth. Let me concede that this is not by design, but due to some shortcomings or certain inadequacies.

The principle of equality, for instance, is not yet upheld if the youth in rural areas and townships are still subjected to numerous health and other social problems, due to high poverty levels. Respect for human dignity and freedom and security of the person remains a dream when young girls are raped and murdered, and schoolgirls continue to live in fear of constant sexual abuse by fellow students and teachers. Equal opportunities cannot be attained when there is still an unequal distribution of resources.

Perhaps the most serious and deadly challenge that faces the youth today is HIV/Aids. Statistics released on HIV/Aids infection are quite alarming. People between the ages of 15 and 49 are reportedly the most affected. The fact that 1 600 new HIV infections occur per day is considered to be unacceptable. However, the UDM is not pessimistic about the future of the youth. We know that the youth are also aware of the challenges that face them. They have already expressed their concerns at various levels of government, through defined channels and institutions that were constitutionally created to promote effective communication and dialogue between the youth and the Government. The UDM celebrates Youth Day, by conveying a message of hope for a better future to the youth, a future whose solid foundation was laid by those before them who sacrificed their youthful days for national duty in order to liberate themselves and the country. On this day we encourage the youth to continue to strive for the improvement of their status and, in the process, break down the barriers of race, colour and class and secure the final victory of the struggle they started more than 20 years ago. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take this opportunity to welcome the hon the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, Dr B S Ngubane, and call upon him to address this House.

The MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Mr Chairperson, before I join in this very important debate, I would like just to correct what Mr Nel, an hon member of this House, stated, namely that HIV/Aids is caused by immorality. I am afraid if we go along with this definition, we will certainly drive this disease underground, because we will inhibit openness among the people who are living with HIV/Aids. For control purposes it is very important that there is no stigmatisation of those people.

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The MINISTER: Today gives us an opportunity to reflect on the very important role that youth movements and youth organisations have played in the history and politics of our country. Many prominent leaders, the former Head of State of South Africa, Mr Nelson Mandela, and the leader of the IFP, Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi, were in the ANC Youth League and this is where they formed and cut their political teeth.

Also, movements such as the BCM produced people like Steve Biko who today we also remember, because after 16 June 1976, he was arrested the following year, and four months after 16 June 1977, he was killed by apartheid. We also remember people like Jenny Schoon, who was a prominent member of Nusas, which was a student movement at the universities, particularly white universities, that struggled to move university authorities to stand firm against apartheid in education. She was also killed by a parcel bomb in Angola. Of course, there are stalwarts such as Abe Ngcobo of the PAC who was very prominent in the formation of that organisation and also came from the youth wing of the ANC. We can go on. I have mentioned all of this, because I do not know how many other countries have a national day to celebrate and honour the youth, but I would imagine that South Africa is one of the very few. This is appropriate, because South Africa’s youth, as I have said, have always played an exceptional role in our country and continue to do so. This surely must mean that they are entitled to a national day of recognition.

The year 1976 is lodged in the consciousness of all South Africans in a complex way that evokes both pain and pride, both anger and honour. On Saturday we will be marking the 25th anniversary of the 1976 Soweto uprising. This day holds an important position in the country’s history for a number of reasons. The day of 16 June 1976 was one that proved to be a turning point for South Africa and ushered in a new phase of active resistance against apartheid. Any country whose police service and army shoot unarmed young people condemns itself in the eyes of humanity, and South African firmly entered that category of countries.

This period gave birth to a generation of black consciousness inspired activists. Many of them left the country to join uMkhonto and Apla to fight and resist apartheid whilst in foreign lands. Bantu education, with its overcrowded classrooms, inadequately trained teachers and separate, inferior universities, was meant to shatter morale and for many years it did precisely that. However, on 16 June 1976 thousands of students marched against this iniquitous system and fought back when faced with police brutality. Hundreds died in the violence that ensued over the next few days, but the youth of South Africa would not be intimidated or beaten into submission.

The Soweto uprising had a ripple effect, with pupils and students around the country venting their anger openly. Here in Cape Town protests happened in Langa, Guguletu and Nyanga. These students were joined by coloured pupils and students from the Western Cape universities and training colleges. Over 60 young people died here in Cape Town in these protests during August and September of 1976. These young people knew that non- racialism could only become a reality once black people realised their own worth and right to equal treatment. Their struggles were key in building nonracialism and in finally securing the democracy that we are enjoying today.

We now have a Constitution that stipulates, amongst the rights to be enjoyed by all South Africans, the right to an equal education and to learn in the language of one’s choice. We have a National Youth Commission that is responsible for co-ordinating government programmes to ensure that the needs of the youth are met. We have a democratically elected Government, working to better the lives of all South Africans. Yet we still face a massive legacy of inequality that affects all South Africans, not least our young men and women. Approximately 39% of South African society is aged between 14 and 35 years. Young people, therefore, form a substantial portion of our society.

In so many ways the lives of young South Africans are better now than they were previously. Yet our youth are still faced with a number of hardships. We are still dealing with the legacy of a system that did not afford the majority of young people the opportunity to develop to their full potential. Our young people still face poverty, unemployment, a lack of sufficient education and training opportunities, high levels of crime and violence and the threat of Aids and other diseases. We know, for example, that young people are contracting Aids at a far higher rate than other sections of our population.

In 1976 the youth took responsibility for bettering the lives of all South Africans. We now have a responsibility to the youth. The reconstruction and development of our society cannot occur unless our young people are supported in reaching their full potential. This is the responsibility of Government, as well as that of civil society. Churches, schools, youth groups, political parties and the private sector all have a responsibility to our youth. I am talking here not of the responsibility of a parent, who assumes responsibility for a young person, but of that of an adult, who provides moral leadership and the means and resources for the youth to be able to develop themselves.

I believe that arts and culture have a key role to play here in encouraging self-respect and personal development through the exploration of creativity and self-expression. The introduction of arts education into the curriculum and the building of arts centres that will promote formal and informal arts and culture education represent a key advance in encouraging the potential of our youth.

In the oldest African independent church in the country, the Amanazaretha of Shembe, in KwaZulu-Natal, we have a stirring example of a creative cultural response to the damage inflicted on African youth by colonialism and apartheid.

In the early 20th century, with the fabric of our communities ravaged by loss of lands, labour migration, alcoholism and other evils, the prophet Esaiah Shembe reintroduced among his young followers the concept of ukubuthwa, regimental enrolment for the defence of the nation against an external threat. For these youths of yesteryear, standing as they did at the brink of the consuming furnace of industrialisation, he also emphasised the critical need for self-respect and mutual respect between the sexes.

Today we stand to learn much from this example of an early renaissance of precolonial African values and self-regard at both communal and individual levels. Just as we were proud of the young women and men who stood up and fought against oppression in 1976, we need to recognise and celebrate the heroic role that is being played by many of our young people in South Africa today.

South Africa has huge numbers of households that are headed by children. Young people are involved in a number of different capacities in their communities, volunteering to help in providing leadership in a myriad of different ways. And it is young people who are leading the way in building nonracialism in South Africa. Those of us who were young in 1976 were not brought up to be colour-blind. We were made all too aware of race and its relation to access and power. We therefore rely on those who are growing up in the new South Africa to lead the way in building a truly nonracial society.

On 16 June 1976, the students of one school in Soweto painted the following slogan at the entrance to their school: ``Enter to learn, leave to serve.’’ I think that this slogan captures much of the spirit of the 1976 uprisings

• a spirit that must be honoured not only as an important point of our history, but also as a key strategy for building our future.

What the students who painted this slogan knew was that young people have a role and a responsibility as active citizens of their society. I have heard recently of teachers in primary schools who are teaching pupils born after

1. In many cases these children do not understand, and often have never heard of, apartheid. They are doubtful when told about things such as separate park benches for black and white. They cannot relate to the story of the student uprising of 16 June 1976.

In one way, this is a sign of how far we have travelled towards some semblance of normality. Yet I believe that a balance has to be reached. Children and young people should have the right to enjoy their youth. This was the right that was tragically denied so many of our young people during the years of apartheid. Yet it is also important that the youth see a role for themselves in building South Africa.

At an address in the Windybrow Theatre last week, Fanyana Mazibuko spoke about the role of young people in today’s society. He was a teacher at the Morris Isaacson High School during the 1976 uprising. He spoke about the youth of today facing an even more formidable enemy than that faced by the youth in 1976. The enemy today is more difficult to identify, and far more insidious. The enemy, according to him, is our complacency.

In too many communities apathy has developed. The number of people involved in community structures is far lower than during the years of apartheid. Yet now is the time that the real work needs to be done: the work of educating people about sexually transmitted diseases and ensuring that our education system is performing properly, combating poverty and unemployment, fighting crime and making nonracialism a reality.

It is now time for the youth to come together and fight the enemy of complacency, inactivity, indolence and crime. The youth also have a role to play in turning the African Renaissance into a reality. Along with the pride in and respect for oneself, comes a pride in and respect for one’s country and heritage. At the moment in South Africa, we have too many of our youth paying allegiance to the culture and traditions of North America, and seeing their own heritage as second rate in comparison to the offerings from across the Atlantic.

However, I believe that this is starting to change as our young people begin to develop their own art forms, and to learn about their heritage. Kwaito music borrows from rap, yet it is distinctively South African, and denotes a pride in celebration of South African talent and culture.

Kwaito also shows us that the youth of this country are able to transcend historical boundaries of race, class and geography and unite around common interests and forms of expression. As young people learn about our heroes and the significant events in our history, I believe they will come together with a greater sense of self-worth and pride in being South Africans.

This is the true gift of those who stood up and opposed apartheid in 1976. They stood for a society in which nonracialism and the freeing of human potential could become a reality. Their actions should continue to remind us of the importance of believing in one’s own self-worth and right to equality, as well as the importance of intergenerational responsibility and respect.

The theme of Youth Day this year is, ``Nonracialism: A youth vision for the 21st century.’’ I hope that the youth will learn from those who went before them that nonracialism is something worth fighting for, and that they have a key role to play in bringing it about. This is their responsibility to themselves and to the country as a whole.

It is my dedicated task as Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology to promote the learning and understanding of science, but also to promote the development of our innate talents as creative people. To this end, we shall work with the NCOP and the provinces. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I would like to inform the hon the Minister that I have just received a note from an hon member asking me to request the Minister to demonstrate kwaito. I have written back to the hon member to indicate that I could not make such a request to the hon the Minister. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, I think the rules of the House do not permit it. [Laughter.]

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, my greetings to Minister Fraser-Moleketi and Minister Ngubane. I would like to thank the Chairperson for allowing us, the young lions, to participate in today’s debate in this august body.

We debate Youth Day in a free, democratic, nonracial, nonsexist country which was a dream of the 1976 youth 25 years ago. I salute these young martyrs who sacrificed and laid down their lives for this freedom that we all enjoy today through their slogan of ``Freedom or death, victory is certain. Forward ever, backwards never.’’

We must be proud that we are making a mark on how to mobilise for this day, not as an end in itself, but as a part of a struggle to take youth development to greater heights. Yesterday it was a foreign country. Now, the future belongs to us, the youth of this country.

This form of commemoration of the history of South Africa has been meant to delegitimise and destroy the system of institutionalised, discriminatory and unequal development in our country, with special reference to the youth.

It is against this background that I call upon the youth to unite in action to fight racism, poverty and the scourge of HIV/Aids with the same commitment, vigour and dedication demonstrated by the 1976 youth.

The youth must uproot all the demons of racism. We can no longer afford racism. It has cost our country billions, because it is barbaric, inhuman, unholy and extremely reactionary. We, as legislators, must ensure that youth unemployment is reduced by providing opportunities to the youth, and that they become involved in meaningful economic activities and be integrated into our overall economic strategy. We must create conditions that develop self-esteem and responsibility amongst the youth and empower them to play a meaningful role in society.

It is a matter of fact that young people are vulnerable to various diseases. It is our duty to educate them and promote the ABC strategy: abstain, be faithful and condomise. In our communities we must encourage Aids volunteers to assist the hospice and to be Aids counsellors. We must provide more equitable access to health.

Young people are, by nature, energetic. They are impatient for change. They are a significant group in any society and they hold invaluable potential.

On this day I also call on the international community to stop the use of child soldiers and child labour. Through you, Madam Chairperson, I would like to make a special appeal to Minister Mdladlana to pursue the Northern Province farmer who is clinging to child labour and thus producing lots of peanuts. He must face the full might of the law, because he has gone to the extent of selfishly making profits at the expense of children of between 12 and 14.

It is imperative that the forthcoming world conference against racism be more representative of young people. The future belongs to us. We are the future.

Tolerance is needed to build a society that is free of racism. Tolerance comes from respecting the differences between people and respecting human rights, democracy and the rule of law. Tolerance also means that we recognise that all people are equal, regardless of how they look, how they behave and how they speak. We call on all criminals who abuse children and make them ashamed of being young to stop it, because their days are numbered.

The future belongs to the youth and no one can stop them. The youth of our country must not be divided on racial lines, as was the case with our parents. We must defy those stereotyped parents who still cling to the past because wa lala, wa sala [those who sleep get left behind]. A country that does not value its youth is doomed, but South Africa values its youth.

Lastly, in those days some of us were in jail, but it is thanks to the youth of this country that we are here today. [Applause.]

Mr N M RAJU: Madam Chair, hon Ministers, colleagues, I will start by quoting, with apologies, William Shakespeare, the Bard of Avon:

All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms. And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel And shining morning face, creeping like snail Unwillingly to school. And then the lover, Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier, Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard, Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel, Seeking the bubble reputation Even in the cannon’s mouth.

Youth: the lover, the soldier - what a romantic description of young men and women when they emerge from childhood and from their schooldays. It is a universally accepted notion that young men and women, some still sporting pimples on their fresh faces, are ready to take on the world. They become impatient and brook no nonsense from any quarter that may attempt to control their whims and fancies. Most adopt belligerent poses. They are bundles of irrepressible energy.

Today we celebrate, as South Africans in a new democracy, the 25th anniversary of the 1976 Soweto rebellion, which catapulted angry young men and women into the forefront of the liberation struggle.

When we survey the political landscape of South Africa since the 1800s, we find a common thread in the history of the struggle against colonialism. We look at the Great Trek of the Afrikaners away from the Cape into the interior, away from what they perceived to be harsh treatment by the British, from an element of language intrusion which was anathema to them. Later again we find the rebellion of the Afrikaners against Lord Milner’s policy of anglicisation, the Uitlander question - again, the diminishing in importance of their mother tongue.

These dark episodes in South African history only underline the fact that people - young people - are prepared to pay the ultimate price against language imperialism, as the young Afrikaners paid in the concentration camps during the Anglo-Boer War.

Wars and rebellions have a nasty habit of plucking young men and women from the threshold of adult life. Do we still remember Bob Dylan’s plaintive song bemoaning the terrible toll the Vietnam War took on young Americans? I quote: Where have all the flowers gone? Long time passing Where have all the flowers gone? Long time ago

Where have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every one When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

Where have all the soldiers gone? Gone to graveyards every one When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

The Vietnam War casualties and deaths ran into millions on both sides. Can we forget the students of Kent University being mown down by the intransigent state police for their protest against participation in the Vietnam War? Nor can we forget the mowing down of Chinese students in Tiananmen Square in Beijing by the formidable Chinese state police, again because students dared to protest in support of democracy.

Our young men and women too, the flowers of Soweto, sacrificed their best years in the fight for justice for all. A whole generation was lost.

The 1976 student rebellion against the apartheid regime was really an extension of the struggle against language imperialism, when the youth of Soweto demonstrated their unwillingness to have the teaching of Afrikaans foisted upon them. It could well have signalled the birth of a new great trek, but instead we were blessed with the birth of a new democracy.

The diversity of our cultures and religions makes a kaleidoscopic tapestry of our society. The youth of South Africa stand at the threshold of exciting times ahead. They have acquired a space which they must use to the maximum for the optimum development and transformation of society.

This anniversary must flash in neon lights the urgency of unity and reconciliation among the youth of South Africa. The youth of South Africa have a wonderful and unique opportunity to harness their immense talents in the interests of reconciliation and interracial harmony. Let us show that the victims of the Soweto uprising did not sacrifice their lost generation in vain.

We have to build a society free from racial strife, free from language deprivation, free from cultural stultification. A bold new world beckons. Over to the youth of our republic. The ball is in their court. [Applause.]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, I am speaking after a poet, and it will not be easy for me to match his standard.

Chairperson, hon Ministers, my colleagues the permanent delegates, comrades and friends, I would like to express our sincere appreciation to you, Chairperson, and the Whippery for having acceded to our request to have this important debate today.

My heart is filled with sadness when I think of the many of our comrades and friends who should have been with us today but could not be here because of what apartheid did to them. Having said that, our belief remains the same: that we will, in our various capacities, continue the tradition of our movement and be active participants in the youth movement to the extent of ensuring that what they fought for is consolidated and defended at all times.

They are assured of our intention to utilise all contributions they made prior to the democratic order of 1994. Those inputs will not miss our attention. They will guide us and inform our deliberations. That will result in achievable youth development programmes, that we have adopted and that we are still going to adopt.

The idea of a united, nonracial, nonsexist, prosperous and democratic society must be the guiding ideal of every young South African. Our young people have shown in practice that they are capable of leading the way in uniting young people across political, class and race barriers to build a united South Africa; of deracialising South Africa towards a truly nonracial society; of ridding our society of gender oppression; of democratising South Africa; and of ensuring a better life for all. One has only to look at the last two national congresses of the ANC Youth League to see the truth of this.

In March 1998, at the conference of the ANC Youth League we had a high delegation from the IFP youth brigade, represented by their secretary and chairperson. At our conference in Bloemfontein, youth organisations that historically represented white youth were also in attendance. Clearly, all this should be indications of young people being serious about building a country which is free of racism, who believe that unity cannot be allowed …

These two congresses have proven that our youth are ready to honour the memories of our fallen young lions, by fighting against racism, sexism, xenophobia, tribalism and all forms of discrimination; taking an active part in the political, social and economic life of our society; and contributing to the unity of all South Africans, black and white.

Our theme for this year is ``Nonracialism: A youth vision for the 21st century’’. As a tribute to all young people who lost their lives 25 years ago, let me, then, try to concentrate on the issue of nonracialism, as it is the theme for this year. We have a duty as young people of this country to work tirelessly to ensure that our nation is transformed into a truly nonracial, nonsexist and united country at peace with itself. Amongst many challenges confronting us in this century is the scourge of racism which has been at the apex of the agenda of the ANC since its establishment in 1912. It is of historical record that our unfortunate past was preponderant with laws that classified whites as humans and Africans as nonhumans. The past education system, which triggered the 1976 revolt, was excellent at teaching us to be aware only of our differences, rather than to share in our commonalities. This was an unjust political system that remained with this nation for decades and only six years ago did the massive selfless and relentless effort culminate in the realisation of the ideals that inspired the formation of the ANC.

All of us would agree that, while we have attained our liberation, the path to a truly nonracial and democratic country is strewn with many hiccups. If we do not attend to those areas of concern, as encapsulated in the national youth policy document which is still to be adopted by this Parliament, we would betray the wishes of those who lost their lives 25 years ago.

The sole purpose of this demon, called racism, is to nullify or impair the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of our rights as human beings and our fundamental freedom in the social, economic, political and cultural fields, or in any other field of public life. This is the type of life young Africans, in particular, and blacks, in general, have endured for decades. It is wrong and it remains wrong.

It is transparently clear that the reason we have to expend more effort on intensifying our campaign against racism is that it has the potential to reverse the gains we have made since we took power. Granted, our Statute Book no longer reflects racist laws, and I would like to express our profound gratitude to our public representatives, both in the national Parliament and provincial legislatures, for their efforts in repealing laws intended to perpetuate the apartheid system - but, at the same time, we would be being disloyal to the wishes of our people if we remained silent on exposing all forms of racism in our society.

To those on the opposition benches who stubbornly refuse to admit the existence of racism, let me try to relate just a few of the racist incidents that have occurred around the country. In Vryburg, where Andrew Babeile is from, white teachers refuse to teach black students mathematics and to give computer lessons. Black students are barred from playing certain sports. In other cases in the same town, two women were found guilty of committing an offence at work. The black woman was found guilty and fired, while her white colleague received a warning and continued to work for the company. [Interjections.]

At the public library at Coligny, white patrons do not want to be served by black librarians. A black domestic worker in the town says that she has to wear plastic gloves when she works in a white person’s house. Her boss tells her to wash in cold water and, whilst she does so, he sits down and watches her. [Interjections.] At Ottosdal, white nurses refuse to wash black patients, and black nurses are overlooked for promotion in favour of white nurses. In Rietvlei, the local high school provides transport to white students only, and all communication is carried out in Afrikaans, despite the fact that there are a number of black students.

In other areas many of our young comrades are stripped naked to be painted all over their bodies. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M J BHENGU: Madam Chair and colleagues, I think that those who have already spoken said very well what the role was that the youth played in our struggle for liberation. Perhaps to add anything to that, I think, would actually sort of disturb that good exposition.

I thought that perhaps it was important that one reads the other side of the flip chart, which says that there is consensus that from 1976 to 1990 our youth did indeed play a role in our struggle, which no one can actually deny. However, there was an element which cracked up in that process, an element of negativism and nihilism which, unfortunately, became a kind of a disrespect for human dignity, disrespect for elders, disrespect for parents, disrespect for human life and disrespect for property. This is natural, as one communist leader said that nothing on earth has only one position, but everything has a dual position that is positive and negative.

That kind of element was unfortunate, so much so that our youth were actually taught, amongst other things, to kill, to maim, to commit all sorts of acts of vandalism, to use drugs, to hate and, as a result, there was a kind of a moral decay. For instance, killing took place in various forms.

There was killing by necklacing. There was killing by forcing people to drink petrol. There was killing by guns, etc. There is a consensus right now amongst local leaders that this is a culture that needs to be replaced. It is a culture that needs to be replaced with a culture of positivism, a culture that will promote a spirit of goodwill, a spirit of responsibility, a spirit of respect for human dignity, a spirit of respect for the law and the rule of law. This spirit should also be of love and comradeship, and be a spirit of discipline.

When we say that our youth are actually our future leaders, we mean that we need to have a quality kind of product, quality leaders, who will lead this country in a manner that is respectable. Of course, we do need to teach our youth, and not what we see on our TV screens through Yizo Yizo II, which shows some very unpalatable scenes. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr G A LUCAS: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers present here, hon members, I just thought that I must say to the hon Bhengu that the majority of our young people are disciplined, they value high moral standards and, above all, they are very positive about our country. I think that there are some very few loose elements which continue to paint a very bleak picture of the role young people are playing in society. I think that that negativity, by ourselves as public representatives, we must do away with.

The month of June is characterised by events of a very historical significance for the people of our country and the whole world. A few days ago, on 1 June, children blessed our Parliament with a clear message of hope, in terms of the theme: ``Hear our voices,’’ in celebrating International Children’s Day. That message and, indeed, their happiness did give us comfort and reassured us that we are on the right track.

Again, on 26 June, patriotic South Africans will once more observe another historic anniversary: the 46th anniversary of the Congress of the People which took place in Kliptown on 26 June 1955. Indeed, it was a real people’s congress, a real people’s parliament and, for that fact, the first truly nonracial and nonsexist people’s parliament. Even the brutality of the apartheid regime and its security forces could not stop our people from gathering for that historic event.

Out of this historic event we gave birth to the Freedom Charter, the people’s charter. Indeed, today our Constitution and other progressive policies that we have passed are a reflection of the aspirations of the people who gathered in Kliptown in 1955. We owe it to this generation and others to make sure that the goals of the Freedom Charter are realised.

The debate of today calls upon all of us to observe another historic milestone, again in June. No wonder the youth of our country have declared this month, ``The month of youth action.’’ Two days from now all South African youth and the entire nation shall observe the 25th anniversary of the heroic 1976 uprising.

This day will once again bring sad memories to our lives. It will once again remind us of the brutality of a system which could not care less about the lives of our people; and which was prepared to kill, torture, imprison, destroy families and even poison us in pursuit of its sustenance. However, we proved that side by side, collectively, we can defeat an unjust system.

What started as a peaceful protest against an oppressive inferior education system turned into a blood bath as the gun-crazy apartheid regime responded to the demands of an unarmed mass of young people with guns filled with deadly bullets. They maimed our people, destroyed their future and, above all, never apologised for what they did. In fact, there is no remorse amongst them.

When the ‘76 generation said, in the true spirit of the Freedom Charter, ``Let the doors of learning and culture be opened for all, let there be equal education for all,’’ the masters then did not respond favourably, instead resorting to extreme measures.

The theme of building nonracialism, a youth vision for the 21st century, clearly identifies the legacy which this generation needs to be remembered by - that of eradicating racism, sexism, xenophobia and all other forms of discrimination. These must be our strategic tasks and we must attain them at all cost.

I wish to raise the issue that today, whilst I was on my way to Parliament, I was listening to Radio Metro. There was a song that was playing, which really disturbed me. It was saying: ``Makwerekwere’’, I am not sure what. I think that that is the kind of thing that we really need to deal with, because those are derogatory words that we really need to get rid of. Radio Metro is one of the instruments that reaches the majority of young people in the country. If it can play this type of music, what kind of attitude and society are we trying to build? I think, as our Ministers are here, that that is an issue, because Radio Metro is a station run by the state broadcaster. This is an issue that needs to be taken up to make sure that we really deal with it once and for all.

The scenes of Potgietersrus Primary School refusing to admit black learners should never happen again. The incident at Bryanston where white students stabbed a black student in the eye should never happen again. The painting of a young black girl with white paint by a white manager of a Pep Store in the Northern Province should never be repeated. The exploitation of black children through child labour on a farm in the North West province should become a thing of the past. We owe it to the generation of 1976, and others who came before and who came after them, to continue to champion the cause of the youth of our country against acts of racism in our schools, workplaces, and in society as a whole.

The conditions which the youth of our country, especially the black youth, find themselves in require urgent attention, not only from Government but also from the private sector and society as a whole. We should challenge the private sector and persuade them to begin to become more creative in addressing the issues of youth unemployment, the lack of skills and the whole range of socioeconomic issues that affect our youth.

It is my view that Government alone cannot deal with issues of youth development without the progressive role that the private sector is supposed to play. I think those are the issues that we must address with the private sector.

Above all, we should support the initiatives by the youth of our country when they say that they demand jobs, they demand better services, and, most importantly, when they demand that the private sector take them seriously.

Another feature of society which continues to mostly affect young black people, especially those from poverty-stricken backgrounds, is the limited educational opportunities presented to them, especially at the higher education level. I am from the Northern Cape, a vast province, which still today does not have an institution of higher learning. We are the only two provinces, with Mpumalanga, which are still suffering. If we are serious - and this is not really a call on Government, because I think the Government alone cannot do certain things - we can collectively, in a partnership, begin to address issues of key interest to the youth of our country and begin to build the necessary skills that our economy requires, that our society requires. I say this because I come from a deprived province and from a disadvantaged background. I do believe that we can, as a collective, address some of the issues that affect our society.

For instance, when one goes to the Northern Cape there is a school called Tlhomelang and a school called Diamantveld, both of which are in Kimberley. When one compares the two schools one will begin to realise seriously vast differences. In Tlhomelang the majority of school kids are from poor families, but when one goes to the Diamantveld school the situation is the contrary. One will never find a situation in which people, learners, educators and parents of Diamantveld children put their energy and resources into having the … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, it is a source of great hope to me that there is such a consensus in the House around this important event in our country’s history. It is a joy to see that consensus yeasting out in our country.

I would have preferred to replace the words of the motion, where it reads to fight racism, poverty and the scourge of HIV/Aids'' withto build a nonracial, prosperous and healthy society’’. I believe that both the hon Mr Bhengu and Mr Raju are right: What South Africa needs now, if we are really to honour the Solomon Mahlangus of this world and honour their memory, is to stop fighting and struggling, to take hands and to build a free, prosperous and contented nation; a nation that reaches for the stars with the idealism of youth, the sort of place that people want to visit and marvel at, the sort of place people want to invest their lives and money in, a place where young South Africans wish to stay, not to leave.

What do we do about it? That is the big question. What we have to do is to create a positive atmosphere and paint the background to the canvas on which the youth can paint the foreground in their lives.

Ronald Reagan was a great president, because he made America optimistic. Every morning the people got out of bed in America and said yes'', instead ofno’’ or ``maybe’’. That was because he inspired a sense of confidence in the country. That is what he did. It had an enormous impact on the prosperity of that country and set them upon a growth path on which they are only now beginning to falter.

I believe that we need a new dream, a new goal, a great new national enterprise aim, a national consensus around which we can all build. We know about unemployment and the high levels of HIV/Aids amongst the youth. The question is: How do they, and we, escape from the jaws of despair?

What we in South Africa need, in my humble opinion, is to accentuate the positive, to exchange hopelessness for hope, despair for optimism, uncertainty for confidence, division for unity, racism for reconciliation, violence for peace. Those are some of the things that we need to do.

If one is not confident, not optimistic, if one does not have faith in one’s country, one is never going to be part of building it. That is a reality of life and any contribution we make to reduce faith or promote division or create fear, is to strike at the heart of our country’s future.

People all over the world are honouring our President now. I hope we are all delighted to see it. It is not only our President that is being honoured so magnificently in the United Kingdom, it is our country that is being honoured.

We need to build upon that inheritance. We need to be worthy of the confidence that people have in us, we need to maintain the momentum of 1994 and what happened beyond that. Our new inheritance is not about somebody putting the sweet fruits of the struggle before us, but about the opportunities that liberty has given a proud and free South African people. That is what it is about.

Churchill, when addressing parliament in a debate just after the war when his country was ravaged, said, ``We cannot break up the foundations of this state and use the pieces as missiles in party warfare.’’

In other words, he was saying that there were limits upon the division that can exist in a parliament and that ultimately we all must be builders. I believe that we have focused too long on everything that was wrong … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, hon Ministers who are here, hon House, much has been said this afternoon. It is something that affects me personally because many of the youths that were involved in the uprising came from my youth club and from Morris Isaacson High School just across the street from me.

They were children I knew personally. Although it was a Soweto uprising, it did not end in Soweto. The uprising spread throughout the country. I would love us to commemorate it as a national uprising of young people throughout the country. It did not pitch indigenous children against others; there were children of all races who came up in support because they were resisting the oppression, the racism of the time.

What hurt most was that those students were all dressed in their school uniforms. They had planned to march peacefully to Orlando Stadium. As they were marching peacefully, over 50 members of the police force came in vans and trucks and overwhelmed them with guns and teargas. It reminded me of a old poem that I used to read, called The Charge of the Light Brigade. A part of it reads:

Cannon to the right of them, Cannon to the left of them … Volley’d and thunder’d … Into the jaws of Death … Rode the six hundred.

That is just like it was. It was as if they were coming to exterminate vermin. One wondered what kind of people these were that had no conscience

• unarmed schoolchildren with hardly a spear, hardly a knife. The only things they could use for defence were dustbin lids to protect themselves from the gas cannon fired at them, or to return the canisters of teargas that were thrown at them. This was done by people who claimed to be religious, who claimed to be the chosen people of God. How could they treat children like that? We wondered whether they had children themselves. Today, although 25 years have passed, it is still a very painful thing. Up to this day we have not seen much change in attitude to life from those who had privileges during that time.

The youth of today are in a more difficult situation than the youth of

1. Then they were fighting only for equal rights and against the imposition of Afrikaans which was pushed down their throats. The youth of today are faced with unemployment, disease and despondency. We need to find ways in which we can comfort our youth because the majority of them are still very loving, caring and sharing. They are not the only ones in the world with problems.

As Yizo Yizo shows, it is not only African children; white, coloured and Indian children all have problems. The youth of today need to be morally strong. They should not so easily be bribed with money, liquor, sex and corruption. They are battered daily by the media that show them that sex is the main thing in life in order to corrupt and dissuade them from the bigger vision of who they are meant to be.

These are the problems that they face today. They are faced with issues and their material comforts seem to be primary, rather than the spiritual things that go with one’s material life.

We urge that we as a Council must begin not just to celebrate the day to remember it, but to implement some of the decisions that we take here. We should make sure that people do not just pass good decisions, but there should be a change of heart.

One can pass all the good regulations in this country and all the laws, but if there is no change of attitude, change of heart, it makes it difficult for those good laws to be implemented. On the other hand, if people change their hearts and attitudes and there is no change to the regulations, it is discouraging and they will not progress.

I am most thankful for this year’s contributions. We as the ANC say that we could easily have said to the young people, ``Return evil with evil. You have seen how we have suffered. Let them suffer in the same way.’’ We have never done so. In countries like Yugoslavia and Ireland, they still have problems finding ways of relating with people with whom they fought.

Today our youth are leading us, they are leading us in their music, in their conferences, in their sport; they bring us together and we must begin to stand together so that when we suffer, we suffer together, and when we rise, we rise up together. We must move away from giving first preference to Caucasians when it comes to jobs and promotions.

Our young people are still the ones creating changes for tomorrow. If one goes to the colleges, universities and technikons, they are the ones who are demonstrating, fighting for things to be right. The white students do not support them. They stay at home and they study. They get jobs first. Tomorrow, when things are done, they will be benefiting from the struggles of our own kids who struggled and went to demonstrations.

Our own African kids have problems getting scholarships and funding. In some institutions, when they have bank loans, they are the ones that are made to fail so that they will not have bank loans again. These are some of the examples of racism that I can mention. There are many. But I am saying we must begin to look at the positive things.

We must begin to join hands with people all over the world, for they made us what we are. We did not do it on our own. We had the solidarity of people all over the world. Even today they are concerned about us, just as we are concerned about them. Therefore, today must be a day of dedication, as next week we will also be thinking about the Freedom Charter that was written in Kliptown in 1955. Those are things that I have been involved in, and they mean a lot to me.

I think of brothers and sisters, young men and women, who now hold very high positions, and who came from the struggle of 1976. However, there are many of them who still suffer. Some are maimed, some have no jobs, some have training and experience, but no employment. We must remotivate them so that they can begin to create jobs for themselves, and not wait to get a job coming their way.

We must stop making our nation the source of making money. Almost every nation comes to South Africa to make money out of us. They come from Pakistan, Asia and Yugoslavia. When are we going to do things on our own? I am urging that we be self-reliant and very proud, not be copycats of everything that is American. Most of the stuff that we copy from America is negative. Even in America they do not accept those things.

When people come from overseas, they must see something that is typically South African in our television presentations, and in the activities around them. They want something that is African. So I am urging that we must not be afraid and ashamed of who we are. Our young people can teach us and we can teach them. We are blessed in South Africa in that the old and the young do not fight each other; they complement each other, they work together. With these words we pray that this struggle to make a new South Africa will continue to be where it is from now until the end of time. Amen. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! The presiding officer is prevented from joining the hurly-burly of the debate, but I note with interest the attachment of members to Western literature. I note Shakespeare, Coleridge and Churchill. I have not heard Ndebele, Themba, Tlali or Head. Perhaps the next speaker, the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology can advise us here.

The MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Chairperson, I think it is something that we must take as our own weakness. We need to have a book festival in the country. We need to have African films, coming from all over the continent, to popularise them.

I hope that this is going to start, because tomorrow we are going to be launching South African films at the national cultural history museum in Pretoria, sponsored by our film and sound archives. Every Wednesday we will be showing a South African film. I hope that we will bring in African films as well. This will be open to the public, particularly to schoolchildren.

There has not been a drive to popularise African writers, African films or African poets. We should be celebrating people like Dr Serote. I take note of the message from this Council and am thankful for it, because it is on occasions such as these that we must use the opportunity to actually think deeply about the meaning of the changes that have taken place in this country. We have to reflect on what is required of us to sustain those changes, and really create a firm cultural foundation for future generations.

Last night we launched the archives at the University of the Western Cape. They reflect our past, our history. They are keeping the lessons of history alive for the coming generations so that our people who will come after us will value the contribution of our heroes and heroines.

I recommend that members of this House make use of this archive at the University of the Western Cape. They should visit it, learn from it and popularise it, because history is the foundation for the future. We do not necessarily want to reflect on the painful past, but we have to remember it so as to plan for a more effective future.

I thank the members for having participated so vigorously in the debate. I thank my colleague, the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, for leading us in this debate. I hope this becomes a tradition, an annual event, that the NCOP conducts this very important discussion and dialogue for the whole country. [Applause.] The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Madam Chairperson and colleagues in the House this afternoon, I am going to start with a quote from the Bible in Afrikaans.

Spreuke 18 sê [Proverbs 18 says:]:

Die woorde van ‘n mens kan diep waters wees, ‘n bruisende stroom, ‘n bron van wysheid. [A person’s words can be a source of wisdom, deep as the ocean, fresh as a flowing stream.]

I think if we have listened to many of the inputs today, we should say to a large degree that we have a sense of us working towards building a nonracial, nonsexist democracy, bearing in mind, and I would like to emphasise this, that the revolutionary capacity of our youth cannot be challenged by anyone, least of all us in Parliament, especially in the NCOP.

I would want to elaborate on why I raise that particular issue, and I actually want to take up something that Comrade Archie, the hon member from the Northern Cape, raised when he said, ``It is our responsibility as public representatives to be positive.’’ It is our responsibility to take forward a positive message which does not still need to be crafted. It is there. The vision is captured in our Constitution.

In the policies of this Government and its overall principles it is clearly stated. We have stated it in a very positive manner. I just wish to remind us, because we, at moments, seem to be doubting whether there is that common vision. I quote from the preamble:

We, the people of South Africa, Recognise the injustices of our past; Honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land; Respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; and Believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity. We therefore, through our freely elected representatives, adopt this Constitution as the supreme law of the Republic so as to - … Lay the foundations for a democratic and open society in which government is based on the will of the people and every citizen is equally protected by law … Nkosi Sikelel’iAfrika. Morena boloka setjhaba sa heso. [God bless Africa, God bless our nation.]

I think there is a need for us always to come back to what is the foundation, what underpins our being here. Why do we commit ourselves through celebrating the 25th anniversary of Youth Day in this manner through a debate? It is not to try and deny our past. It is not trying to suggest that certain things did not exist, but it is precisely to acknowledge that past and to say never again will it happen. But at the same time, accepting that our past has led to an extent of traumatisation of our society, we need to take the lead and reflect that, as public representatives, we have the insight and drive to ensure that we no longer carry youth, as on the chest of Rev Chabaku, where we have the Hector Peterson image.

We do want to ensure that the Public Service itself will become the central machinery with a changed culture, but that transformed culture will not happen on a voluntary basis. It will happen through the hon members’ engagement, as representatives of our people.

The Public Service needs to reflect that change by ensuring better service delivery and that there are no victims of any form of discrimination any longer. By being a constitutional democracy, we have committed ourselves to follow the Constitution, which is a positive answer in ensuring that we provide support for the revolutionary capacity of our youth.

The revolutionary capacity should not be seen as negative. It is about ensuring that the youth continue to act as a mass force for revolutionary change and the fundamental reconstruction and development of our country. However, it requires the support and guidance of everybody, in the spirit of Batho Pele, in the spirit of Ubuntu, which puts the understanding of ``Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu’’ [no men is an island] at the centre. Together we shall make a difference. We should not assume that by being negative ourselves we are going to change our country and make it positive.

I want to conclude by saying that the World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, which will be held in Durban from 31 August to 7 September, will be preceded by a youth summit, which will take place on 26 and 27 August. It will involve youth representatives from all over the world. Our youth must ensure that through their representatives, they lead. Much as we are aware that we are involved in processes of change, the youth of this country and of this region still understand what it means to struggle. Struggle is not fighting, it is but a movement for change. To struggle is to facilitate change, because change is not going to come when others bring it about on our behalf, and I spoke about that in the opening.

Our youth representatives should ensure that they come to that youth summit with concrete input on how to make a difference, how to ensure change and how to thank the peoples of the world - we must be very careful about xenophobia - for the role they played together with the people of South Africa who struggled to bring about the democracy that we need to build in a real sense.

This debate is necessary. I believe the debate has been positive and that it brings up our diversity. I hope that our input will contribute to ensuring that we do make a difference, in a positive manner, in the reconstruction of our country into the kind of country that our youth would be proud of. [Interjections.]

Debate concluded.

  EXPORT CREDIT AND FOREIGN INVESTMENTS RE-INSURANCE AMENDMENT BILL

          (Consideration of Bill and of Report on thereon.)

Mr M V MOOSA: Chairperson, after World War II, when the infrastructure and economies of many countries all over the world were heavily destroyed, the rich and powerful economies that embarked upon the process of rebuilding the economies and infrastructure of the smaller countries of the world started huge export projects, capital goods and so forth, to the smaller economies. The business organisations and companies of these big economies required insurance for the projects that they were undertaking in these countries, across the borders.

The biggest problem at the time was that when companies decided to send millions of dollars or rands worth of equipment and projects to other parts of the world, they were not sure whether they would receive their returns. They were also not sure whether those governments, countries or economies were good for the debt. Out of that emerged a very innovative way in which countries managed to start spending money across their borders and feeling safe about it: the process of credit guarantee and reinsurance, which is what this Bill is all about.

As the process of credit guarantee and reinsurance was taking place, international trade began taking place with greater frequency and at a higher level. So the globalisation that we witness today, the very big, world economy with trade taking place across borders as if it is just normal practice, had its roots in the way in which capital expenditure and trade took place after World War II.

In 1957, the South African government enacted an Act called the Export Credit and Foreign Investments Re-insurance Act. In terms of that Act, a mechanism was created which was called the Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation. All the different banks and financial institutions of our country came together to create insurance instruments, insurance mechanisms and products, which could be utilised by anybody who wished to invest or trade outside our borders.

Whenever the Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation provided insurance for an organisation, it asked the Government to underwrite that insurance, in other words, to reinsure everything they did. In other words - just for the benefit of the members of the House - if, before this Bill, I were to export 100 drilling machines to any other country - Mozambique, Angola, the US, whatever the case may be - I would approach the Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation and tell them I was exporting these machines, which cost me R10 million, and I would like to have insurance because I would like to know that my money would be returned. The Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation would go to the Government and ask the Government, particularly the Department of Trade and Industry, whether they would underwrite the insurance that they would give to Mr Moosa when he exports his mechines. The Government would then underwrite that.

That process has resulted in the Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation not taking any risks but making lots of commission and money. At some point the SA Government became wise to this and asked itself the question: Why are we paying commission to the CGIC and to the banks to do all this, when, in fact, we could do it ourselves?

So the Government has decided, with this Bill, to create the Export Credit Agency. What this agency will do is provide direct insurance to the economy, from the Government’s side, without going through a go-between in the form of the CGIC, and the Bill we have before us creates that.

There have been some issues that came up in the discussions that I have to address. One of the questions is: If the CGIC is taken away, what happens to the small organisations and businesses that are doing day-to-day trade across our borders? What this Bill does is that it does not close down the CGIC, in other words, it does not take away all the business of the CGIC.

We have divided the Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation into two categories with this Bill. One category is the day-to-day short-term insurance - in other words, if I am exporting T-shirts across the border and I need some guarantee for that, the CGIC will still continue doing that. International best practice is that organisations like CGIC all over the world provide that kind of insurance.

But if, as an organisation, we were to embark on a big project, say for example, the Mozal gas pipeline project or the project that we are doing in Yugoslavia in the Far East where we are exporting a lot of our technology from Sasol and so forth, then that would be insured by this new Export Credit Agency. It simply creates this agency and, in the process, also creates powers for the agency to develop a reserve fund, and makes sure that the agency has the power to deal with claims, its own fees, costs, and so forth.

The view is that this agency will save the Government something to the tune of R20 million per annum, in the form of commission fees and so forth. Also, with the creation of this agency, the Government itself will be able to scrutinise these projects in more detail.

Those are the few words that I, as the chairperson of the committee, have to say on this Bill. Some views have been expressed by the opposition parties - I am sure they will make declarations. But, from the side of the ANC, we support this Bill and call on the House to vote in favour of it. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Declarations of vote:

Dr E A CONROY: Agb Voorsitter, kollegas, die doel met hierdie wysigingswetsontwerp is in der waarheid die skepping van ‘n statutêre liggaam, naamlik die uitvoerkredietagentskap, wat noue bande met die Departement van Handel en Nywerheid sal hê. Hierdie agentskap sal die herversekeringsaktiwiteite oorneem wat tot op hede deur die bestaande kredietwaarborgversekeringskorporasie gereël is, en dit in ‘n tyd waar daar hard gespook word om ondernemings wat in staatsbesit en onder staatsbeheer is, te privatiseer. Hoewel die agentskap nie direk enige bestaande reëls en ooreenkomste sal verbreek nie, word hierdie soort van staatsinmenging deur ander lande as ‘n onregverdige handelspraktyk beskou en sal dit toenemend in die opset van die Wêreld Handelsorganisasie in omstredenheid gedompel word.

Die redes wat vir die voorgestelde verandering aangevoer word, hou nie water nie, aangesien enige nadele en tekortkominge in die bestaande stelsel maklik met onderhandeling reggestel en uitvoerkredietversekering sodoende in die kader van die privaatsektor behou sou kon word. Die Nuwe NP beskou die wysiging as ‘n terugwaartse stap en sien dus nie sy weg oop om hierdie wetsontwerp te steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans Declaration of vote follows.)

[Dr E A CONROY: Hon Chairperson, colleagues, the purpose of this amending Bill is in fact the creation of a statutory body, namely the Export Credit Agency which will have close ties with the Department of Trade and Industry. This agency will also take over the reinsurance activities which until now have been regulated by the existing Credit Guarantee Insurance Corporation, and this at a time when everything is being done to privatise businesses which are owned by the state or under state control. Although the agency will not directly violate any existing rules or agreements, this type of state intervention is regarded as unfair business practice by other countries and will increasingly be plunged into controversy in the framework of the World Trade Organisation. The reasons given for the proposed change do not hold water, since any disadvantages and shortcomings in the existing system could easily be rectified with negotiations, and by doing so export credit insurance could be kept within the framework of the private sector. The New NP regards the amendment as a step back and does not see its way clear to support this Bill.]

Mnr J L THERON: Geagte Voorsitter, die DP verklaar dat ons ons ten volle vereenselwig met die sentimente soos uiteengesit deur die agb kollega Conroy van die Nuwe NP. Die DP stem dus teen die wetsontwerp. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr J L THERON: Hon Chairperson, the DP declares that we identify fully with the sentiments as set out by the hon colleague Conroy of the New NP. The DP thus votes against the Bill.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, in the view of the ACDP we should be streamlining the current private process and improving on it, as far as export credit is concerned, and not nationalising it.

We have one of the oldest and most successful and one of the few profitable credit guarantee agencies in the world, of which we can be justifiably proud. The agency has expressed its wishes to reform itself and create new capacity in order to take on new challenges in Africa. And what is the department doing? It is nationalising this body, and we are against that.

We need to provide extra capacity to cover political risk, to support business in order to develop the subcontinent. However, Governments are notoriously poor at making good political judgments. Our preferred option would have been to reform the CGIC.

I want to say - I hope I am not being prophetic, but I would like to have it on Hansard, and that is why I am standing up today - that there is no quicker way to lose money, and lose it in buckets, than to give political risk cover in unstable environments. People have lost billions in Africa, and I know what I am talking about because I used to be chairman and chief executive officer of such an organisation myself.

Politics have to be developed for ethical investments. Arms, tobacco, alcohol, child labour, slave labour and despotic jurisdictions are to be avoided. There is big money involved, and we need to be skilful and knowledgeable and have incorruptible people to do the job. Any exporter will export anywhere, that is if the Government of South Africa is going to pay the Bill when the contract fails or the country goes up in smoke. We have to be very, very careful.

We do not need huge offices, with the same people from the DTI, or from the CGIC that are doing a good job now moving into this new organisation for much more money than what they earned before, using expensive consultants and earning exorbitant salaries and incurring mammoth travel costs.

This organisation is only going to deal with probably 10 deals a year. We do not need a huge infrastructure for that. They can meet occasionally, as the Board of Trade did. Because public money is involved and losses would constitute off-budget expenditure, there needs to be transparency and disclosure to Parliament, as we are ultimately responsible for the losses. With reservations, we abstain from voting on this Bill. The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We shall now proceed to voting on the question.

Mr M V MOOSA: Chairperson, the ANC wishes to make a declaration.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The ANC did not indicate, but I will allow it now that it has woken up.

Mr M V MOOSA: Oh, I thought that we were entitled to make a declaration before the vote.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Each party is entitled to do so, but I asked whether any party wished to make a declaration, and only three parties out of the seven indicated their wish to do so. However, you may proceed.

Mr M V MOOSA: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I have a very short declaration regarding the Vote. As far as the ANC is concerned, we established from the department whether it would be able to undertake this responsibility. We had absolute assurances from the department and the professionals involved in the Department of Trade and Industry that they do, in fact, understand this particular area of industry and that they will be continuing to do so.

The Government has all along been covering risks on credit insurance. The fact that it is creating its own agency to do so is nothing new. Whether the CGIC or the Government did so, the risk is covered by the Government. From that point of view, all that the Government is doing, is finalising processes now, in order to streamline the agency. The ANC supports this Bill.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting; African Christian Democratic Party abstaining).

                       PATENTS AMENDMENT BILL

          (Consideration of Bill and of Report on thereon)

Mr M V MOOSA: Chairperson, this is a very short and technical Bill. Some time ago, Parliament gave attorneys the right to appear before the High Court, not only before magistrates’ courts, and so forth. In keeping with that, a whole number of processes in which attorneys are generally involved had to be revised.

One of the processes that has as yet not been dealt with is the the one which requires representations, in respect of patents, to the patents authorities of our country. What this Bill does, is that it extends the right to appear before the commissioner who hears patents matters, not only to advocates and specialised agencies that are accredited, but also to attorneys who have the right of appearance in the High Court. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 16:30. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       WEDNESDAY, 13 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 12 June 2001 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section 75
     Bill:


     (i)     "Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal" Act Repeal Bill [B 30
          - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry and to the Select Committee on Economic
     Affairs. The report of the Auditor-General contained in the
     following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
     Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Trade
          and Industry for 1999-2000 [RP 66-2001], including the Report
          of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 33
          - Trade and Industry for 1999-2000 [RP 142-2000].


     (b)     Executive Summary of the Report of the Department of Trade
          and Industry for 1999-2000 [RP 66-2001].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Minerals and Energy and to the Select Committee on Economic
     Affairs:


     Report of Mintek for 1999-2000.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Office of the Auditor-General on the Budget of Income and
 Expenditure for 2001-2002 [RP 60-2001].

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Draft Regulations relating to Chapters 5 and 6 of the Municipal Systems
 Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000), submitted in terms of section 120(7)(a)
 of the Act.


 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government
 and to the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration for
 consideration and report.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs on the Patents Amendment Bill [B 24 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 12 June 2001:

   The Select Committee on Economic Affairs, having considered the subject of the Patents Amendment Bill [B 24 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on Study Tour to Western Cape, dated 27 February 2001:

 The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having
 undertaken a study tour to the Western Cape on 16 and 17 October 2000,
 reports as follows:


 A.     Objectives


     The Committee has in the course of the year visited eight
     provinces in order to assess and evaluate the progress made with
     land claims and land restitution. The Constitution states that any
     person or community, or a direct descendant of such person, who
     was dispossessed of any right in land by virtue of a racially
     discriminatory law, shall be entitled to claim back that right.
     This does not mean that a person can simply lay claim to the land
     of his or her choice. The person must first lodge a claim with the
     new Commission on Restitution of Land Rights.


     The objective of these visits was to find out first-hand from the
     people who were unfairly dispossessed and who were involved in the
     process, what their views were. The Western Cape tour was the
     final provincial visit undertaken.


     Upon request by the Committee, the Commission of Restitution of
     Land Rights drafted a programme of areas to visit in the Western
     Cape over a two-day period.


     The following were members of the delegation: Rev P Moatshe
     (Chairperson); Dr E A Conroy; Mrs B N Dlulane (present on 16
     October); Mr M L Mokoena; Mr R Nyakane; Mrs J N Vilakazi (present
     on 17 October).


 B.     Monday, 16 October 2000


     Mr Sandile Swartbooi and Mr Siretsi Moruakgomo, both of the
     Commission on Restitution of Land Rights, accompanied the
     delegation to the various areas visited on the day.


     1. District Six Museum


          The delegation met with Mr Noor Ebrahim, a staff member of the
          museum and also an ex-resident of District Six, before the
          forcible removals of families from the area in 1966. The
          delegation was taken on a tour of the museum to get an
          understanding of the community of District Six in the
          apartheid days.


          District Six was an area of Cape Town at the foot of Table
          Mountain, close to the harbour and the city bowl. It was an
          area where blacks, whites and coloureds lived as a community
          and together created a rich mixture of different cultures.
          Most of the people who lived in District Six, were of the
          working class. They wanted to live close to the city, harbour
          and factories where they worked. The early part of the 19th
          century saw the outbreak of the bubonic plague and the first
          forced removals from District Six. Thousands of black people
          were forced out and over 2 000 houses were demolished and
          rebuilt. As the city and the population continued to grow, the
          municipality did not provide adequate water and refuse
          facilities. Roads were left to deteriorate and landlords took
          little interest in the maintenance and upkeep of their houses.
          The government used this neglect to refer to District Six as a
          slum, in order to justify removals based on race.


          In 1950 the Group Areas Act was passed by the government,
          which classified people in racial groups. In 1966 District Six
          was declared a "whites only" area. Between 1966 and 1980, 60
          000 people were forcibly removed from District Six and their
          homes and shops bulldozed to the ground. District Six then
          became Zonnebloem. Families and friends were split up and
          moved to the Cape Flats. The memory of District Six is proof
          that people of different religions, nationalities and racial
          groups can live together.


          Mr Noor Ebrahim belongs to one of many families who are
          currently involved in claiming restitution as a result of
          having lost their homes in District Six during the apartheid
          era.


          A memorandum was sent to the Minister for Agriculture and Land
          Affairs, requesting approval for land restitution damages for
          the claimants of District Six. The Minister's approval is
          pending. Mr Ebrahim indicated that when monetary compensation
          is paid out, it will be divided amongst all the descendants of
          each family entitled thereto. It is understood that each
          family would receive an amount of R15 000 as compensation.


     2. Franschhoek


          The delegation met with Ms Joan Japhtha, who is a member of
          the committee comprising community members dealing with the
          land claims issue for the area.


          During the apartheid era, Franschhoek North was known as Le
          Rouxdorp, where both coloureds and whites resided together.
          However, when the Group Areas Act was introduced, Le Rouxdorp
          was declared a coloured community. All the coloured families
          (18) of Franschhoek were then moved into Le Rouxdorp and the
          white people were moved to other areas and given attractive
          compensation packages. Coloured homeowners in Franschhoek
          owned large properties, but were paid low compensation for
          their land.
          18 families were evicted from Franschhoek and had to rent
          houses when they were forced to move to Le Rouxdorp, and the
          small amounts they had received as compensation for the loss
          of their homes were used to pay for the rent, which left very
          little for anything else.
          Ms Japhtha indicated that the land restitution has been a five-
          year process, but that it was the "end of the road now", as
          the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs had approved the
          restitution claim for Franschhoek North and the claims would
          soon be paid out. Ms Japhtha stated that she expected it to
          vary from family to family - would they prefer monetary or
          land compensation? She noted that claimants opting for land
          compensation would receive only a plot of land, with no
          services attached to it. Money would have to be spent to build
          homes on those tracts of land. Ms Japhtha also indicated that
          a development company wanted to purchase the land to build a
          golf course. It approached the committee and indicated that it
          wanted a win-win situation.


          Ms Japhtha informed the delegation that there was a special
          committee, comprising of residents of Franschhoek North who
          are dealing with the issue of restitution. The committee has
          also enlisted the assistance of a lawyer to represent the best
          interests of the community. She also stated that there had
          been problems with the local council, who initially refused to
          allow the claims through, as they argued that it was not
          accountable for the loss of land of the community. When the
          committee employed the services of a lawyer, the claims were
          passed. However, the committee has lodged an objection against
          the council, whom, it felt, appeared to be backing off and did
          not have the interests of the community at heart. The
          Commission on Restitution of Land Rights were to meet with its
          Legal Resource Centre that evening to discuss the problem,
          after which a meeting was to be called with the Franschhoek
          local council. The parliamentary delegation agreed that the
          discussions should take place between the Department and the
          council, and that the committee and claimants should not be
          involved in that process. The parliamentary Committee would
          also like to know the outcome of the consequent meetings with
          the local council of Franschhoek.


     3. Meeting with Western Cape Commissioner
          The delegation had a short lunch meeting with the Western Cape
          Commissioner of Restitution of Land Rights, Mr Alan Roberts.


          Mr Roberts indicated that his office has been inundated with
          approximately 500 daily calls on issues of land restitution.
          He praised his employees as good workers who put in long hours
          of overtime and who were interested in the subject matter they
          were dealing with. All the employees of the Commission were
          contractually employed and not paid enough for the amount of
          work they put in, and hence quite often the Commission would
          lose good workers, who had no option but to seek better
          salaries because they had families to support.


          A claim must relate to a dispossession, which took place after
          19 June 1913. In addition, claims had to be lodged within a
          period of three years from 1 May 1995. Once a claim has been
          lodged, the Commission will advise the owner of the land being
          claimed and all other interested parties. Notice of the claim
          will also be published in the Gazette and forwarded to the
          relevant Registrar of Title Deeds. This would enable a
          prospective buyer of land to see whether it was the subject of
          a pending land claim.


     4. Riebeeck Kasteel


          The delegation met with Mr Lameyer, Mrs Botes, Mrs Kriel and
          Mr Daffnee, who are members of the Oukloof Land Claim
          Committee of Riebeek Kasteel in the Malmesbury District.


          A claim by the Oukloof Land Claim Committee was submitted on
          behalf of the former residents of the Oukloof area of Riebeeck
          Kasteel on 21 April 1997, in accordance with sections 11(1)
          and 2(1) of the Restitution of Land Rights Act, Act 22 of
          1994, as amended, and section 25(3) of the Constitution, and
          gazetted on 18 July 1997.


          The Oukloof location was established as a coloured location
          early in the previous century, when a white farmer donated
          land to the Dutch Reformed Church for this purpose. Oukloof is
          two km from Riebeeck Kasteel. The church assumed
          responsibility for administering this settlement, and annually
          nominal sums were paid to it for water. The claimants built
          their own houses but were prohibited by the church from owning
          the land.


          At the time of removal in 1961, the land belonged to the
          Village Management Board, who, in order to make way for
          extension of the white residential area, forcibly removed the
          residents of Oukloof, bulldozed their homes and moved them to
          a newly built township, Esterhof. The removal was done
          according to the Group Areas Act of 1957. The houses at
          Esterhof at the time were worse than the homes the claimants
          had been removed from. The claimants were expected to pay one
          month's rent before moving into the houses and were promised
          by the municipality that after 10 years the houses would be
          theirs. A total of 57 households were removed at the time of
          the dispossession, and 56 households lodged claims. When
          claimants initially lodged their claims, they stated that they
          did not want restoration of the dispossessed property, but
          wanted tenure upgrade and structural upgrading of their
          municipal houses in Esterhof. However, the majority of the
          claimants could not attain full tenure security because their
          payments in respect of rates, housing and services were in
          arrears and the Malmesbury municipality could take possession
          of their properties if they did not honour their debts. It is
          the position of the Commission that compensating claims
          financially, in order to settle arrears with the municipality,
          will allow them to acquire full tenure security. The full
          financial compensation is R980 000, which will be split
          amongst 56 families, so that each family would receive R17
          500.


          Mr Lameyer indicated that claimants were unhappy, as residents
          were the owners of their properties, but did not have proof on
          paper. The Malmesbury municipality informed residents that
          they would not be granted title deeds to their properties
          until all the residents' backdated debts had been settled.
          This meant that those residents who had no debts would also be
          denied receipt of the title deeds to their homes. The question
          that the delegation raised, was whether the land was
          communally owned by all the residents together or privately
          owned.


          Mr Lameyer informed the delegation that the residents opted
          for the R17 500 compensation to be used to pay off their
          outstanding debts, in order to obtain their title deeds. They
          intended to use the rest of the money to develop and upgrade
          their homes.


          Once the moneys have been paid out, the Commission of
          Restitution of Land Rights would follow up to see if the debts
          have been paid off and whether the titles deeds have been
          allocated to the residents.


          The delegation agreed that the Chairperson would approach the
          Select Committee on Public Services to follow up what the
          situation was as regards the issue of the title deeds. In
          addition, the Oukloof Land Claim Committee should approach the
          town clerk of Malmesbury to find out whether Riebeeck Kasteel
          is privately or communally owned.


 C.     Tuesday, 17 October 2000


     1. Slangrivier


          The delegation flew to George and were met by Mr T Mofokeng
          from the Commission of Restitution of Land Rights. The
          delegation undertook a one-and-a-half hour road trip to
          Slangrivier and met with the following members of the
          Slangrivier Land Claims Committee: Mr D Lotz, Mr D Esau and Mr
          C Hoogbaard.


          The delegation heard that the Minister had approved the
          restitution settlement package, which formed part of other
          land reform programmes such as redistribution, since this area
          was an Act 9 area. The Slangrivier Land Claims Committee also
          indicated that the residents have waited seven years for the
          restitution packages to be paid out. The residents not only
          want monetary compensation for the loss of their homes during
          the apartheid era, but also wanted to receive land
          restitution, as they did not feel it was right that they had
          to buy back plots owned by them and which had been forceably
          removed from them. Slangrivier will receive R680 000 as
          compensation.


          The delegation agreed that it would approach the Minister
          about the problems the residents were experiencing and would
          request that Parliament look into the issues of monies that
          have been made available to the community, but that have not
          been used for that purpose.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on Study Tour to North West, dated 27 February 2001: The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having undertaken a study tour to the North West on 18 and 19 May 2000, reports as follows:

 A.     Introduction


     The Committee embarked on a visit to the North West with a view to
     assessing and evaluating progress made on land claims and land
     restitution, as well as problems experienced by the communities.
     During the visit the Committee was able to meet with the MEC for
     Land and Agriculture, members of the standing committee on land
     and agriculture, officials of the department of land and
     agriculture, the legal adviser of the department, members of the
     Land Claims Commission, the Bakolobeng Chief and Bakolobeng
     representatives, the acting Chief of Bakwena ba Mahlako and the
     community, the Barolong ba-ga Barokologadi and the Bakwena tribe.


 B.     Purpose of Report


     The purpose of this Report is to present the findings of the
     Committee on the progress made and problems experienced by
     interested parties.


 C.     Findings


     1. Meeting with MEC and Land Commission


          The MEC for Land and Agriculture gave the general background
          on issues revolving around land claims and land restitution.
          Land is a thorny issue, as experienced in Zimbabwe. The
          situation is causing a panic in South Africa, but it may not
          be repeated here because, by comparison, Zimbabwe made
          promises that were not fulfilled after independence. South
          Africa, in 1994, recognised that the land issue was important,
          and is trying to rectify the legacy of the past. The land
          question is enshrined in the Constitution. These are ways
          which will help to resolve the land issue in a peaceful way.
          Some sectors of the community are dissatisfied that claims
          have to be made since 1913. They want it to go beyond that
          period, but unfortunately there are no records in this
          respect. The 1995 Restitution Act was enacted to quell the
          situation and instill hope in people in South Africa. The
          Security of Tenure Act was aimed at settling and protecting
          people on farms.


          The courts are clinging to sections of repealed Acts, such as
          the Trespassing Act and the Property Rights Act, as well as
          the property clause. This makes the work of the Land
          Commission a bit difficult. There are also some Acts which
          make the work of the Commission difficult because they do not
          give clear guidelines. The government has created institutions
          to give effect to these Acts, which shows its commitment and
          intention to deliver. Issues such as a lack of capacity and
          resources are some of the limitations that are being
          addressed.


          The country is part of the global community, and agreements
          have been entered into. Some of these agreements are
          disadvantageous to us. The agreements are not protecting those
          who are involved in imports and exports, such as farmers and
          traders.


          The process that has taken place, included the handing of land
          to the community in Putfontein, and other small land claims
          have already been processed. The Minister for Agriculture and
          Land Affairs has devolved powers to the MECs relating to the
          collection of rentals on land and other related claims to
          land. The issue of emerging farmers is not progressing well,
          as banks are not willing to grant loans to them. The
          restitution process in the province is taking place at a
          snail's pace and is not satisfying. After the land has been
          distributed, people are left with no infrastructural
          developments, and these communities have no development plans,
          which causes problems.


          The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs has devolved
          powers to the MEC to allocate land and to deal with land
          claims. This will help in speeding up the restitution process
          and stop the loose cannons who want to invade land. There is a
          mushrooming of this tendency in a number of provinces,
          including North West.


          The Chairperson of the Committee indicated that the purpose of
          the visit was to monitor and assess the progress made with the
          implementation of the laws made by Parliament. The study tours
          started in other provinces in 1999, and are still continuing.
          The aim of this study tour was to look at land restitution and
          land claims. The Committee wanted to see if the people did get
          their land, and the progress and problems around land claims.
          There should be integrated efforts between the implementers,
          the department and the legislature to ensure that land is
          restored to the owners.


     2. Land Claims Commission


          The Commission agrees with the MEC that some of the Acts are a
          hindrance to its work. Despite these weaknesses, the
          Commission has been able to settle some claims. The following
          is the breakdown of claims:


          Total number of claims 3 945
          Total number of claims prioritized 87
          Number of claims gazetted 24
          Number of claims in the negotiations phase 9
          Number of claims in court 3
          Number of beneficiaries of recently settled claims 5 100
          Total number of settled beneficiaries 18 800


          (1) Achievements


              (a)  The finalising of the Putfontein land claim.


              (b)  Research and negotiations are in progress for the
                   special project in respect of Vogelfontein and Twee
                   Rivier.


              (c)  Settlement of the remainder of Ratsegae (Portion
                   13).
              (d)  Transfer of development funds of Ratsegae - on-site
                   development taking place


              (e)  Business plan for Dithakwanene is completed.


              (f)  Bakubung claimants completely resettled.


              (g)  A working relationship with and a commitment from
                   the department on the implementation of court orders
                   and ministerial awards.


              (h)  A working relationship with district councils as
                   service delivery points.


              (i)  Willingness by TRAC and ANCRA to assist in the
                   process of effectively settling claims.


              (j)  Political commitment from the Premier and the
                   political head on land issues.
          (2) Problems


              There is resistance from land owners for the following
              reasons:


              (a)  Refusal to attend meetings.


              (b)  Disagreement regarding valuation reports.


              (c)  Questioning the validity of claims without
                   conducting thorough research.


              (d)  Infighting amongst claimants.


              (e)  Lack of co-ordination and commitment by other role-
                   players.


              (f)  The process of acquiring state-owned land is a
                   cumbersome process. An interdepartmental procedural
                   review is, however, in the pipeline.


              (g)  Ministerial/departmental policy regarding
                   compensation is problematic and remains unresolved.


              (h)  Claimant verification is problematic.


              (i)  The cost of establishing historical valuations is
                   exceptionally high.


              (j)  Lack of capacity - the staff is not in a position to
                   handle the current caseload.


              (k)  Some people are not sure of their land.


              (l)  There is a problem of restitution versus
                   development. Private companies acknowledge the claims
                   but want the land for development.


              (m)  The Communal Property Association (CPA) is a legal
                   entity, but it gives the Commission a lot of problems
                   in settling land claims.
              (n)  There are claimants who had undivided shares prior
                   to dispossession, and they do not want to have
                   communal land.


              (o)  The courts want affidavits and birth certificates of
                   claimants, and this delays the process. The fact that
                   every claim should go to court, also frustrates the
                   Commission.


          (3) Some solutions


              (a)  The Commission should be given some powers to
                   investigate.


              (b)  What claimants had received in the past should not
                   be considered.


          (4) Progress on advanced land claims


          AREA     STAGE OUTCOME


          Kinde Estate Court Minister's response to compensation
          received is awaited.
          Discussion with landowners with the view to reopen
          negotiations and settle the matter through s42(d) of the Act.
          The matter is set for hearing on 19 June 00.


          Bakolobeng Court The claim is in court and there is no
          agreement on the price.
          Compensation received has to be decided by the Minister.
          Zefanjeskraal Court Matter set for hearing.


          Putfonteins 42(d) Settled. Subdivision of plot for owners.


          Madikwe s42(d) Negotiation. Mandate from Minister received
          with recommendations. Office working on these
          recommendations. There is a Memorandum of Understanding
          between the North West government and the Commission.


          Kafferskraal Negotiations Offer made based on the valuation
          and recommended     market price. Arbitration will be
          considered if the andowners do not respond to the offer made.
          Appropriation to be considered.


          Tigerkloof Negotiations Agreement on price with all but one
          landowner.


          Draft mandate completed.


          Klipgat Negotiations Mandate ready to be submitted


          Uitkyk Court In the process of being finalised. The claim is
          to be referred to court as there is no agreement.


          Holgat Negotiations Submission made to the Minister of Public
          Works on the disposal of this land as it is state-owned.


          Moiland and Zamkomst Negotiations.The claim is being
          negotiated


          Vogelsfontein Negotiations Awaiting the valuation report for
          further and Tweerivier negotiations.Options workshop to be
          conducted for claimants. Site inspection to be done.


          Concordia Negotiations Awaiting valuation report for further
          negotiations. Options meeting to held with claimants.


          Kleincwain Negotiations Offers received from landowners.
          Mandate is being drafted.


          Khaukwe Negotiations Was gazetted; however, to start there is
          a problem tracing current landowners.


          Byl Negotiations Claim gazetted and a stakeholders' meeting
          was scheduled for 27 March 2000.


          Rhenosterdoorn Mediation.


          (5) Way forward


              (a)  Policy formulation at both provincial and national
                   level should be towards an integrated approach, and
                   it should be aligned with a budget.


              (b)  Political co-ordination and commitment - there is an
                   increased need for co-ordination by relevant
                   departments to ensure sustainable development.


              (c)  Fast-tracking by the North West Commissioners would
                   expedite the settlement process.


              (d)  The decentralisation process - from the national
                   office to the province.
          (6) Observations


              (a)  It has been realised that the 1978 Traditional
                   Authority Act is a thorn in the flesh and needs to be
                   repealed.


              (b)  The Commission should be able to have alternatives
                   to some problems and be able to formulate proposals
                   to submit to the Committee.
              (c)  The councillors are still divided - one group
                   belongs to the democratic dispensation and the others
                   are the old guards of the Bantustans. This division
                   causes conflict, as the old guards distribute State
                   land to their favourites.


              (d)  To expedite the settlement of the land claims, the
                   need to decentralise commissioners becomes vital.


              (e)  There should be a co-ordinated link of structures on
                   land issues in order to have an integrated approach.


              (f)The documentary proofs requested by the court places a
                   burden on the Commission.


     3. Visit to Ganalaagte (Bakolobeng ba-ga-Ramodiyana)


          The Bakolobeng tribe was removed from their original land in
          1976. Their claim covers the area of the Lichtenburg District
          to Ventersdorp. The Ganalaagte area has been developed and
          people have settled on this land. There is a division in the
          community, in that there are those who want to go to
          Ventersdorp and those who want to remain in Ganalaagte. There
          is a strong feeling from the community that they want to get
          their land back. They argue that that land is fertile, is next
          to amenities and has a developed infrastructure.


          People were compensated when removed from their land, but that
          compensation did not equal the hardship these communities
          endured during the removals.


          Bakolobeng have title deeds to their land. Hence the
          department is acknowledging that Bakolobeng have lost their
          land as a result of racially discriminatory laws and
          practices. There are no problems with the claim of the
          Bakolobeng. However, the matter is still being held back by
          negotiations in respect of the offer.


          There is a problem of infighting between chiefs on the claims.
          The Committee requested the chiefs and the community to solve
          that matter. If it is not solved, there will be no winner and
          the land will not be returned to them. The Committee
          recommended that the House of Traditional Leaders be
          approached to assist in this matter.


     4. Visit to Madikwe (Bakwena ba Mahloko)
          The claim was made in 1996. Legal Resources Centre initially
          assisted with the claim. The claim is made on two farms -
          Diamante and Optel; and it is a communal claim. This land was
          held by the Minister of Land Affairs for the community. The
          community do not have title deeds for this land but the
          Minister acknowledges the holding of the land. The Minister
          has requested the community to move to another area so that
          there could be some developments. This was in actual fact an
          exchange agreement.


          The Chief had agreed with the government to exchange the land
          and, despite the objections of the community, the Chief
          proceeded with this agreement. When the land was exchanged,
          there was no tribal resolution to make this exchange legal.
          People who signed for this were less than 20 and were under
          age. The Act by then required that the tribal resolution
          should have been signed by the majority of male residents and
          the administrator should attest to that.


          The community has challenged this in court and the process is
          going to take long to get settled. White farmers are not
          against the claim, however, they have their own demands. These
          farmers have various demands that are causing delays to the
          settlement of this issue. The land needs to be valuated and
          the price determined. The community plans to do commercial
          farming. The community wants to have mineral rights and the
          Legal Resource Centre is researching that possibility. The
          Commission feels that the only obstacle to this claim might be
          the price. The Commission is currently educating the community
          on Communal Property Associations and how to administer land.


     5. Visit to Madikwe (Barolong ba-go-Rekologadi and Bakwena)


          Barolong ba-ga-Rekologadi and the Bakwena tribes have
          representatives from five villages. People had title deeds
          dated 1871, but the community felt that they had resided there
          long before in 1871. The community were forcefully removed
          from Mokumbjane and Phalane, together with their livestock. It
          is not possible for the community to claim back the land, as
          it is a game reserve. Amongst other land being claimed, is
          State land which is on lease. There are farms that are
          adjacent to the land claimed and they are occupied by informal
          settlers. There are white farmers who have reserved the land
          for grazing. Some people have leased the State land and, at
          the end of the lease, the occupants do not want to vacate.


          The land which Barokologadi is claiming, is about 20 000
          hectare, whereas the Bakwena are claiming 10 000 hectare and
          the Baphalane ba Sesobeng also 10 000 hectare.


     6. Obstacles


          Negotiations have not yet started due to the following
          reasons:


          (1) There is a farmer, Mr Jonk, a Zimbabwean by origin, who
              was given the land by the former Bophuthatswana
              government. The land allocated to Mr Jonk was about
              45 000 hectare. The intention was to use this land for
              commercial farming. This land is prime property and can
              be beneficial to the whole community. In response to this
              claim, Mr Jonk has decided to take the Department of Land
              Affairs to court for selling the land to him. This delays
              the progress of claiming. Mr Jonk's contract ended in
              1994.


          (2) A certain Mr Dipale had an expectation to buy the farm.
              The department did not meet this expectation, and he
              intends to get a court intervention. This issue is also
              problematic and causes delays.
          (3)      projects developed in the area, and the community
              will manage and maintain them. The community will
              participate in eco-tourism in the game reserve.

                       THURSDAY, 14 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the Acting President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bills:


     (i)     Housing Amendment Bill [B 7D - 2001] - Act No 4 of 2001
              (assented to and signed by Acting President on 13 June
              2001); and


     (ii)    Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2001] - Act No 5 of
              2001 (assented to and signed by Acting President on 13
              June 2001).

 (2)    The following Bills were introduced by the Minister of Trade and
     Industry in the National Assembly on 14 June 2001 and referred to
     the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of
     Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Merchandise Marks Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2001] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          22249 of 24 April 2001.]


     (ii)    Trade Practices Amendment Bill [B 34 - 2001] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          22249 of 24 April 2001.]


     The Bills have also been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry of the National Assembly.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 14 June 2001: To be
 submitted to President of the Republic for assent:


 (i)    Export Credit and Foreign Investments Re-insurance Amendment
     Bill [B 19B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).
 (ii)   Patents Amendment Bill [B 24 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec
     75).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 21 -
 Labour [RP 130-2000].