National Assembly - 27 September 2001
THURSDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:01.
The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mrs W S NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House-
(1) notes that - (a) the DA-controlled Western Cape provincial government plans to spend R286 million to extend foreshore freeways; and
(b) the province has a backlog of 220 000 houses and there is a dire
need for roads in unserviced poor and rural areas;
(2) believes that this move only entrenches apartheid urban planning in the unicity and is merely a waste of taxpayers’ money; and
(3) calls on the provincial government of the Western Cape to redirect funds to poverty alleviation and job creation programmes and infrastructural development in areas such as KTC, Brown’s Farm, Langa, Crossroads, Hout Bay and Delft.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: That the House -
(1) notes the outrageous and provocative remarks …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! We have ruled in the past that we do not move motions on behalf of other people who are not in this House, but on behalf of our own party.
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Yes, sir.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Could you please do that.
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That this House:
(1) notes the outrageous and provocative remarks of the ANC Youth League President, Malusi Gigaba, whose ill-timed attack on the United States government is extremely damaging to South Africa’s reputation;
(2) urges the ANC Youth League to commit itself unequivocally to the global fight against the scourge of terrorism; and
(3) recommends that Mr Gigaba leave such matters to wiser heads, if South Africa’s standing in the international community is not to be damaged further.
[Applause.]
Mr B M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the use of the SAPS by the Cape Metro Council in water cut-offs
yesterday in Mitchells Plain against residents,especially women
and children; and
(b) that this utilisation of SAPS resources by the council against
poor and defenceless people is conspicuous by its absence when
gang fights ravage the aforementioned communities;
(2) calls on the Cape Metro Council to implement their much-publicised free basic water programme to the poor; and
(3) calls on the council to devise and implement an indigent policy, as is the case in other local councils across South Africa.
Mr D A A OLIFANT: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That this House -
(1) notes the comments made by the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk that smaller parties must unite ``to fight the ANC’’ in the wake of the endless stream of crises that have dogged the New NP in the DA since its formation, including -
(a) their side-lining after the Ryan Coetzee letter;
(b) their petty fights over limousines and chauffeurs, which they do
not qualify for in any case;
(c) the street-naming scandal;
(d) continuous squabbles within the DA; and
(e) ongoing backstabbing by the likes of Hennie Bester and Belinda
Walker;
(2) reminds the hon Van Schalkwyk that he failed to unite the DA because of his political impotency; and (3) calls on all social formations to become part of the ANC’s transformation agenda and to ignore the DA’s fight against the poor.
[Applause.]
Mnr J W LE ROUX: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis kennis neem dat -
(1) wêreldtoerisme ‘n ernstige terugslag beleef as gevolg van die terroriste-aanslag op die VSA;
(2) toeriste wêreldwyd ‘n baie hoë premie plaas op persoonlike veiligheid;
(3) die hoë vlakke van misdaad in SA die toerismebedryf ernstig benadeel;
(4) dit wil voorkom asof die ANC-regering nie die politieke wil het om die publiek van SA effektief teen misdadigers te beskerm nie; en
5) die publiek van SA die regering verantwoordelik hou vir die
onaanvaarbare hoë vlakke van misdaad wat tans in SA voorkom. (Translation of Afrikaans Notice of Motion follows.)
[Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House notes that -
(1) global tourism has suffered a serious set-back as a result of the terrorist attack on the USA;
(2) tourists worldwide place a very high premium on personal safety;
(3) the high levels of crime in South Africa are very detrimental to the tourism industry;
(4) it would seem as if the ANC Government does not have the political will to protect the South African public effectively against criminals; and
(5) the South African public holds the Government responsible for the unacceptably high levels of crime that are currently prevalent in South Africa.]
Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) takes strong exception to the unruly conduct of members of the Residents’ Association at Makhenkesi, who appear to be pursuing a political agenda under the guise of a residents’ protest in a current sit-in; (2) is appalled by their barbaric and unlawful behaviour in physically apprehending and detaining the Speaker of the Council, which was preceded by the public burning of a UDM flag by ANC activists at Mqanduli;
(3) notes the UDM’s politically mature behaviour in restraining its well- equipped supporters from responding to this intimidation in like manner;
(4) acknowledges that the residents’ complaints are based on unfulfilled election promises of the ANC; and
(5) calls on the Government to halt this anarchy and to demonstrate their commitment to fighting terrorism as undertaken in response to President Bush’s ultimatum.
Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the DA-controlled Cape Town City Council resorted to apartheid-style debt collection and coercion into submission yesterday in Tafelsig, when they sent hundreds of police personnel to cut off the water of 1 000 poor households;
(2) further notes that access to clean water is a basic human right guaranteed to all South Africans, especially the poorest of the poor, by our Constitution;
(3) believes that the DA’s campaign of victimising the poor has gone full circle - with scenes of police vehicles, teargas and rubber bullets, reminding us of our townships in the 70s and 80s; and
(4) calls on the DA to end their crusade against the poor in Cape Town.
[Applause.] Dr C P MULDER: Mnr die voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis kennis neem daarvan dat -
(1) die VF pas die afgelope Studenteraadsverkiesing (SR) by die Universiteit van Pretoria gewen het;
(2) die VF in die verkiesing 12 setels verower het teenoor die ANC se 7 setels en die DA se 6 setels;
(3) die VF met hierdie oorwinning bewys het dat hy ‘n belangrike rol in die Suid-Afrikaanse politiek speel en ‘n tuiste en hoop skep vir veral die Afrikaanssprekende jeug;
(4) die ANC en DA na die uitslag by Tukkies ‘n geheime samewerkingsooreenkoms aangegaan het;
(5) hierdie ooreenkoms tussen die ANC en die DA verseker het dat hierdie twee partye die meerderheid poste op die SR verkry het, en die VF, wat die meeste setels op die raad het, geen poste gekry het nie;
(6) die ANC en DA se besluit nie in belang van die demokratiese proses, die meerderheid studente, die SR of van die universiteit is nie; en
6) die DA wat die kiesers tydens die 1999-verkiesing gevra het om vir
hulle te stem sodat hulle die ANC beter kan beveg, nou besig is om
met dieselfde ANC saam te span teen ander opposisiepartye. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House notes that -
(1) the FF won the recent Student Council (SC) election at the University of Pretoria;
(2) in the election the FF won 12 seats to the ANC’s 7 seats and the DA’s 6 seats;
(3) with this victory the FF has proved that it plays an important role in South African politics and creates a home and hope for the Afrikaans-speaking youth in particular;
(4) the ANC and the DA entered into a secret co-operation agreement after the result at Tukkies;
(5) this agreement between the ANC and the DA ensured that these two parties secured the majority of positions on the SC, and the FF, which has the most seats on the council, secured no positions;
(6) the decision by the ANC and the DA is not in the interests of the democratic process, the majority of students, the SC or the university; and
(7) the DA, which asked the voters to vote for them during the 1999 election so that they could fight the ANC more effectively, is now joining forces with that same ANC against other opposition parties.]
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) records its appreciation of the sterling work being done by the Bosele School for the Blind and other similar schools in our land;
(2) notes that there is growing concern among students who graduate from these schools that there is no employment for them after leaving schools and that therefore there is little incentive for being educated; and (3) calls on the Government to give priority attention to the disabled to enable them to fend for themselves.
Mr J H NASH: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that poor and sickly people in Eerste River have to stand in queues from 03:00 every morning, hoping to receive much-needed health care;
(2) also notes that yesterday an old man died of an asthma attack while waiting in the queue;
(3) believes that the DA’s continued reference to the Western Cape as ``the best run province in the country’’ refers only to the experience of privileged communities, and not that of poor people who cannot afford private health care; and (4) calls on the DA - those people there - to stop the unjustifiable spending of R286 million on Marais’ bridges and to spend more money on providing quality, affordable health care to the poorest of the poor.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon members! The DP.
Mrs P W CUPIDO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House -
(1) notes that residents of Cape Town receive a quota of free water and electricity every month;
(2) endorses the view that people who use additional water and electricity must pay for it or else local government will not be able to continue providing services;
(3) acknowledges that those residents who have had their water cut off recently have been given every opportunity to make arrangements to pay their arrears; and
(4) expresses its disappointment that such residents should -
(a) resort to violence when faced with the consequences of their
actions; and
(b) endanger young children by involving them in such protest
action.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr H J BEKKER: Mr Chairman, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House - (1) notes that South Africa’s inflation rate as expressed in the CPIX (consumer price index excluding mortgage loans) slowed to 6% in August 2001, bringing it within the target range of 3 to 6% set by the SA Reserve Bank for the first time;
(2) congratulates the SA Reserve Bank and its Governor, Mr Tito Mboweni, on achieving this milestone in the face of an international economic downturn and an international crisis;
(3) also congratulates the SA Reserve Bank for its decision to cut its repurchase rate to commercial banks by half a percentage point from 10% to 9,5% on 21 September; and
(4) expresses its hope that the lower inflation and repo rates will materially assist South Africa’s hard-pressed consumers.
[Applause.]
Bishop L J TOLO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Deputy President, Mr Jacob Zuma, called on all South Africans to protect the interest of our country during his speech which was delivered during the Heritage Day celebrations;
(2) believes that the call made by the Deputy President is of major significance in building unity in action for change; and
(3) calls on all patriots and South Africans to heed the call made by the Deputy President to unite for change.
[Applause.]
Mr C M MORKEL: Mr Chairman, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:
That the House -
(1) notes the predicament in which the youth of SA find themselves in light of the following:
(a) unemployment for the age category 20-24 is at a shocking 57,5%
and at 45% for the age category 25-29;
(b) on the announcement of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, Minister Manuel
said that job creation was a national project that required the
unwavering commitment of all our people; and
(c) despite representation on the board of the fund by the
Departments of Finance, Labour, Public Works and Trade and
Industry as well as the National Youth Commission, not a single
cent has been disbursed; and
(2) calls on the President to intervene in this shameful buck-passing exercise between the government departments at the expense of those that can least afford it - the unemployed youth.
FATE OF SOUTH AFRICANS AFTER US TERROR ATTACKS
(Draft Resolution)
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes a report by the Department of Foreign Affairs that five of the seven South Africans who were missing after the attacks on the USA are alive and well;
(2) expresses its relief at their being safe; (3) also notes that the body of Nick Rowe, who was tragically killed in the attacks, is to be brought home to rest; and
(4) expresses its sincere condolences to the bereaved family, friends and loved ones of the deceased.
Agreed to.
Mr M T GONIWE: Chairperson, I wanted to suggest that Comrade Rajbally does not need a microphone - her voice is very powerful. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! We need it for recording purposes.
CELEBRATION OF YOM KIPPUR
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that people of the Jewish faith throughout the world will be celebrating Yom Kippur;
(2) believes that there is a need on this most important Day of Atonement for reflection on world peace, tolerance and commitment to uphold a culture of human rights; and
(3) wishes the Jewish community well on Yom Kippur.
Agreed to.
ORDER OF PRECEDENCE: QUESTIONS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 29(8), Questions shall not
have precedence on Wednesday, 3 October 2001, and on Wednesday, 10
October 2001.
Agreed to.
ALEXKOR LIMITED AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson and hon members, it gives me great pleasure to present to the House the Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill. As members can see, I am not Minister Radebe: I am standing here in his place, as he was unable to be with us this afternoon.
We are at a stage in our agenda for the restructuring of state-owned entities where any impediments to the efficient and effective transformation of any state-owned entity are not only identified, but also addressed to ensure that the milestones we have set ourselves are realised. Even though our emphasis has been on the four major sectors of this economy, it should be borne in mind that the other entities like Alexkor, though small in stature, are very critical and strategic to the economies of the communities they serve. The timing of this Bill also serves as a reminder that the Government’s restructuring programme remains on course.
The greater Namaqualand community depends entirely on this asset for its livelihood, as well as on the diamonds of this mining company and the other assets around it. It is primarily for this reason that the Government has continually been coming to the rescue of this mining house. The dependence of this mine on Government financial support is, however, not sustainable and it is imperative for Government to consider other options. In doing so, Government will take into account, amongst others, the important economic and social role that Alexkor plays in the Namaqualand region. The public hearings held on this Bill illustrated this point, as people from Namaqualand travelled long distance to present to the committee their concerns and hopes about this mine.
The current Alexkor Limited Act, Act 116 of 1992, in terms of which Alexkor was incorporated as a company, has been identified as posing a major impediment to Alexkor’s return to profitability. In terms of this Act, in particular section 4(2), the Minister for Public Enterprises may dispose of shares held by Government in Alexkor only through a listing process.
Niyayazi ke maqabane okokuba uAlexkor akakulungelanga ukulistwa. [You know comrades that Alexkor is not ready to be listed.]
Thus far Alexkor is a loss-making entity. Definitely, it is not ready to be listed in an open market, and that is not a secret. It is provisions like these that the Alexkor Limited Bill currently before members seeks to address. In terms of this Bill, the Minister will be empowered to dispose of shares in Alexkor as he deems fit, provided that such disposal is done with approval from Cabinet. Government is given the scope and flexibility to find other restructuring options which will benefit the shareholder and the people of this region. I wish to emphasise that what underlines this amendment is not the privatisation of Alexkor yet, as has widely been reported: it is what is in the best interest not only of the mine, but also of the greater Namaqualand community and the livelihood of the people who depend on this mine.
Government has noted the interesting ideas and suggestions made during the public hearings with regard to the turnaround strategy. These are valuable suggestions that will be considered. These are, however, not the subject of this amendment and the debate today.
Once more, let me conclude by expressing our sincere gratitude for the manner in which members have handled this Bill and the attempts that they have made to ensure that the life of this mine is safe. I would like to thank the state law advisers and the other members of the team that is responsible for this exercise. Lastly I wish to extend a word of appreciation to the portfolio committee and its new chairperson, Comrade Benedict Martins. I am aware that this is the first Bill to be processed under his chairmanship; he is doing a great job.
The portfolio committee, through its public hearings, has sent out a message to our people that Parliament remains a people’s institution that takes forward their interests. I would also like to thank the people of Namaqualand for the contribution they have made and all the trouble they took in order to make sure that they are part of this debate through the hearings. [Applause.]
Mr R J HEINE: Chairperson, hon members, on the issue of the restructuring of state-owned enterprises, I want to refer members to the Constitution, Chapter 4, section 56 and the Public Finance Management Act, Chapter 6, section 55(2)(a), and I quote:
… fairly present the state of affairs of the public entity, its business, its financial results, its performance against predetermined objectives and its financial position as at the end of the financial year concerned …
The Minister is unfortunately not here, but in any event I am addressing it to him. If ever there was a copy book study of how not to restructure state assets, SAA is a case in point. Apart from the stock markets showing negative tendencies after the horrendous events in the USA, I think we can sadly say that the listing of SAA on the Stock Exchange in the foreseeable future is very remote. [Interjections.] I am not talking to that member - he does not understand! [Laughter.]
I am sorry to raise this issue this afternoon, but there are too many unanswered questions about this debacle and we need to get answers on behalf of the taxpayers and, very importantly, to allay the fears of potential investors as we move into the future with restructuring, the very issue we are dealing with this afternoon.
In the Minister’s own words, he did admit to the House in his report-back on 13 June 2001, and I quote:
SA Airways is the national flag carrier, with the majority ownership in SAA held by the state, exercised through Transnet. Thus, South Africa’s citizens and taxpayers have a right to know what has been going on in SAA.
It has now become clear that since 1998 there has been a systematic erosion of corporate governance at SAA.
He further went on to say, and I quote:
From the above, it is quite apparent that the former MD of Transnet did not have the authority of the Board of Transnet or, subsequently, the Board of SAA, to enter into the various contracts with Mr Andrews. Further, it is still unclear to me, even at this juncture, as to why the respective boards did not raise concerns earlier.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, Mr Heine!
Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Chairperson, I do not understand the debate of the hon Heine. [Interjections.] What he is talking about has to do with Public Works and not Minerals and Energy. SAA does not fall under the auspices of the Minister, so is this the correct platform?
Mr R J HEINE: Chairperson, could you give me time to answer that?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: No, you do not have to answer that.
Mr R J HEINE: Pardon?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Let me rule on the point of order. It is quite difficult for the Chair, really, to say how members should prepare their speeches. But it is quite clear from the Rules that we should try to stick to the debate or the Order of the Day in terms of the matters that are put before us. By all means, we have to try to do that. You can continue, Mr Heine, but try to stick to the debate.
Mr R J HEINE: Chairperson, when I conclude, he will appreciate why I am saying this. [Interjections.] The Minister further said, and I quote:
Whilst they were unaware of the actual content of the contractual agreement, they must have been aware of the payments made to Mr Andrews much earlier, as this should have been reflected in the financial reports tabled to the SAA board. I am still awaiting an urgent response to this matter from Transnet and SAA.
We are also waiting on the Minister’s response, because everybody is ducking and diving the issue. SAA was supposed to report to the portfolio committee and cancelled at short notice, and the Minister is also not here.
The Minister further commented, and I quote:
The former MD then proceeded to appoint himself as the chairman of SAA, without any consultation with the shareholder …
This is generally unprecedented in the corporate world. At the very least, this would have required a resolution from the Transnet board.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, Mr Heine! Are you rising on a point of order, Chief Whip?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on a point of order: The hon member is clearly going against the Rules. He is not talking about the Alexkor Bill, but addressing SAA issues instead. I would appeal to you, Chair, to rule on this matter. This is absolutely out of order. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! When I made a ruling on the first point of order, I said that members should stick to the subject of the debate as much as possible. They can cite examples by quoting certain issues in their speeches. But I request Mr Heine to be relevant to what we are discussing today. Hon Heine, have cited SAA as an example. Please proceed.
Mr R J HEINE: Chairperson, all I would like to say is that this whole issue is clouded in mystery. I am now talking about privatisation issues and if members do not understand, they should listen. If this is the way we are to privatise state enterprises in future, then no investment will be forthcoming. Our name in the corporate world will stink forever.
Let me now turn to the issue of Alexkor. The latest financial results were published today. A R33 million loss was declared. What is most interesting, though, is that the Nabera company, which managed this contract for two years, is now claiming management consulting fees. But they cannot agree on the figure because the evaluation due, before Nabera took over, was not done properly. So we are again faced with a scandal. I want to suggest that Alexkor is purposefully making a loss so that somebody can take it over. Guess who is in line to buy Nabera? It is the management company which had a contract for two years.
Nevertheless, we will manage and monitor this process very carefully because it seems that there are already some funny things happening.
An HON MEMBER: What are those funny things?
Mr R J HEINE: You will hear about these in future! I would like to appeal to the Minister to make herself available to the portfolio committee and supply us with answers to the issues that I have raised. As far as the Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill is concerned, we will be supportive. As I said, we will monitor it very closely. [Applause.]
Mr M D MSOMI: Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen, the IFP has researched and evaluated this Bill against the time-honoured and well-respected principles which guide and inform governments of major and developing economies, on how well to approach the restructuring and privatisation of state-owned enterprises. Clearly, the Bill seeks to legally empower the Minister for Public Enterprises, in consultation with the Minister of Finance, to dispose of the shares in Alexkor to any person without any specific guidelines suffice it to say that conditions as to the shareholding of the company must be determined by the Minister subject to approval by the Cabinet.
When we have to legislate on this manner, we must accept that certain principles, such as the oversight of the executive when they deal with sensitive matters like the alienation of state interests in state-owned enterprises, well have to be sacrificed. It requires the most careful scrutiny when one entrusts the executive with something like that, which should be limited in respect of its involvement in legislation. However, the situation is different in Alexkor in that it is operating at a huge loss and the Government cannot subsidise a loss-making entity. However, we would propose that this particular Bill, should not be extended to all other aspects of privatisation or restructuring, without the involvement of Parliament. In other words, this should not be seen as giving the executive a blank cheque to alienate state interests, because it will cause a serious departure from the basic time-honoured principles.
The next very important point is, exactly what the Government should be observing in order to create an environment where an overarching legislation is now absolutely necessary. There is no way we as a country can continue restructuring state-owned enterprises without providing a legislative environment which is predictable, provides certainty and leads to other people investing in the country with a high degree of confidence. Therefore, Government should be more involved not in a case-by-case experiment, but in creating an environment to promote efficiency by exposing business and services to the greatest possible competition, to the benefit of consumers.
Secondly, ownership must spread as widely as possible among the population. This is the key. Thirdly, it must obtain the best value for each industry or service which the Government intends to sell. These are critical evaluation measures that we need to adhere to, and these are time-honoured principles that we need not sacrifice for the sake of expediency.
Again, the IFP has looked into Alexkor as a particular case. Clearly, the first step the Government needs to take, is to set its objectives for the sale very clearly, so that interested parties and other stakeholders should know exactly how to participate. As I indicated, it must consider the need for overarching legislation that governs restructuring and privatisation. It must decide whether the business should be reorganised to create a viable unit or to raise performance standards by introducing competition into the industry. These are critical success factors. Nevertheless, the IFP supports the Bill.
Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Chairperson, the amendment of the Alexkor Limited Act of 1992 by this Bill before Parliament today, is a step which should be welcomed by every South African who believes in the free-market economy. The fact that Alexkor is presently making serious losses, is preventing its listing on the Stock Exchange. The changes proposed in this Bill will enable the Minister to restructure the shareholding of Alexkor through the selling of shares by the state to any person. It is alleged that the restrictions that are contained in section 4(3) of the present Act, stand in the way of changing Alexkor into a profit-making organisation.
We in the New NP believe that credit should be given where credit is due and, therefore, we want to commend the Minister and the Department of Public Enterprises for not having caved in to Cosatu’s pressure. The Bill was actually approved at a stage when Cosatu had embarked on a general strike against privatisation of state-owned enterprises. This action should be commended.
Those of us who are serious about the economic growth and development of the country, know that restructuring of state-owned enterprises is an important element in this process. As much as we are supportive of this Bill and any other step to promote privatisation of state-owned enterprises, it is important for the Government to realise that the tabling of a Bill such as this one today, is merely a point of departure. The responsibility of the Government is to prepare and manage these state-owned enterprises to the extent where they can become attractive and viable investment opportunities for any future investors.
This is not happening at the moment. The whole SAA debacle is a very good example of the Government’s failure to complete the full restructuring process. It has to admit this. In the case of Alexkor there are many unanswered questions around the management of the mining activities and expansion of Alexkor. It is important that the Minister deals with these issues as soon as possible. In any future privatisation process, it should be free of any suspicion of insider trading and possible future bidders that will have preference over other competitors. Claims are being made by possible future contenders and these cannot contribute to suppressing the perception that agreements and promises have already been made behind the scenes.
I want to quote from the Sunday Telegraph of 24 December 2000:
Petra Diamonds, the company denied a listing on the London Stock Exchange because of its involvement in the war-torn Congo, is to be reborn as a South African black empowerment company.
Let us look at what Petra Diamond’s website says:
The two-year mandate to reform Alexkor prior to privatisation has now been completed. The Nabera consortium led by Petra has reformed this Government-owned diamond producer … Petra is in pole position to get a majority stake and management control.
Restructuring is not a process of favouritism or nepotism, and we will have to guard against this. The Minister should also deal with the allegation that there was an undergrading of diamonds over the past two years, that was responsible for an estimated loss of R160 million to Alexkor. This allegedly happened in order to give a skewed picture of Alexkor’s potential.
Furthermore, it is also of the utmost importance that the Minister and his department should engage in talks with the Richtersveld community in order to allay the fears of the people of the area that any restructuring process would have a negative impact on their future.
We in the New NP, nevertheless, will support this Bill. [Applause.]
Mr B A D MARTINS: Chairperson, hon members, reference has been made to SAA. I would like the House to know that within the next two to three weeks SAA will be given the opportunity to come and address the relevant portfolio committees with regard to the work they are doing, the difficulties they are encountering and their financial statements. There will be full discussion on that matter when we have the requisite, relevant facts to deal with that issue.
I would like to return to the Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill. During the public hearings on this Bill, members of the portfolio committee listened very carefully and attentively, I hope, to the presentations made by the relevant stakeholders. The Richtersveld Community Organisation expressed concern that the intended changes would adversely affect the economic and employment prospects of the Richtersveld and greater Namaqualand region.
In this regard it should be noted that Government, through the Department of Public Enterprises, has made provision for an equity community stake for the residents of the Richtersveld in Alexkor. Furthermore, discussions on other issues will continue with the relevant communities.
With reference to the submissions from the labour movement, the Congres of South African Trade Unions and the National Union of Mineworkers, in their joint submission, expressed concern that transforming Alexkor, and addressing its problems, should not require the alienation of state ownership and the takeover by the private sector. These and other concerns were noted, and are being given the requisite attention. The Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill, however, seeks to amend the Alexkor Limited Act of 1992, so as to provide afresh for the sale and disposal of shares held by the state in Alexkor Limited. This is to enable Government to take decisions on the basis of objective conditions and financial risk analysis in order to meet its economic and social objectives.
The ANC supports the passage of this Bill.
Mr C T FROLICK: Mr Chairperson, hon members, the Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill before us in our opinion represents an appropriate course of action regarding Government’s responsibilities in this important area.
The Bill provides for the Minister for Public Enterprises, should he so desire, to dispose of shares in Alexkor in consultation with the Minister of Finance. The Bill also gives the Department of Public Enterprises discretionary powers with regard to the sale, restructuring or disposal of Alexkor Limited. It must be noted, though, that these powers must operate within an agreed framework and be accountable to political oversight. Administrative flexibility, it is argued, is required in any restructuring process. Such flexibility differs from individual discretion; nonetheless it must operate with built-in checks and balances.
As far as public participation is concerned, Cosatu and the local community expressed fears about the economic impact on the livelihood of the community. The argument by Cosatu, that the mine’s profitability problems could be solved without restructuring and privatisation, does not adequately take into account the huge cost such an enterprise would entail for the taxpayer. Offshore mining operations will require huge capital investments and risk capital, which Government should avoid. Issuing bonds on an unprofitable venture is not, in our opinion, a wise course of action.
The financial viability of Akexkor has improved, but the mine has still to return to financial profitability. The company’s optimism about its future prospects is noted with reference to the renegotiation of the Central Selling Organisation marketing contracts, favourable exchange rates and the outsourcing of Shallow Marine Mining operations. However, despite these apparent positive developments, the challenge for Alexkor remains attracting high-risk exploration capital to ensure the continued replenishment of ore reserves.
The role of the Nabera Management Team has to be carefully evaluated and scrutinised. Specific attention must be given to careful and close monitoring of the future role of Nabera and its members. There are perceptions that the management team has kept the financial performance at a certain level, with an eye towards bidding for the company in future. Such perceptions are very dangerous, and will turn future restructuring into problematic exercises. For this reason stringent oversight is required.
The UDM supports the Bill.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, die wysigingswet is ‘n kort wetjie. Dit lyk heel tegnies en dit lyk asof dit nie ‘n vreeslike omvangryke proses is nie, maar die gevolge van hierdie wysiging kan redelik astronomies wees.
Die wet sê dat die agb Minister vir Openbare Ondernemings met instemming van die Minister van Finansies die aandele kan verkoop of vervreem. Die vraag is: wat beteken dit as daar gesê word ``vervreem’’? Dit beteken eintlik dat tussen dié twee Ministers, as hulle ooreenkom, hulle net eenvoudig die aandele kan weggee. Hulle hoef dit nie eers te verkoop nie.
Daarom sal ek graag by die agb Minister wil weet: wat word bedoel en wat beteken dit as daar gesê word dat die aandele vervreem kan word? Dit is onaanvaarbaar, want dit laat hier ook weer eens ‘n gaping oop dat daar weer korrupsie kan plaasvind. Die agb Minister vir Openbare Ondernemings moet net sorg dat die Minister van Finansies sy maatjie is, en dan kan daar goeie korrupsie plaasvind. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairperson, the amending Bill is a short piece of legislation. It seems to be quite technical and it does not appear to be an extremely extensive process, but the results of this amendment could be quite astronomical.
The legislation says that the hon the Minister for Public Enterprises may, with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance, sell or dispose of shares. The question is: what does it mean if one says ``dispose of’’? It actually means that between these two Ministers, if they agree, they can simply give away the shares. They do not even have to sell them.
Therefore, I would like to know from the hon the Minister: what is implied and what does it mean when one says that the shares can be disposed of? This is unacceptable, because once again it provides a loophole for corruption to take place. The hon the Minister of Public Enterprises must simply ensure that the Minister of Finance is his friend, and large-scale corruption can take place.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chair, the MF is aware that Alexkor Limited boasted a diamond production estimated at 184 000 carats during the 1996 financial year. They have both onshore and marine diamond concessions. They were established in 1992 with the state as the sole shareholder. This Act placed a restriction on its management.
The MF acknowledges that this Bill amends a restriction imposed upon the sale of the state’s shares. The Bill allows the Minister for Public Enterprises to sell state shares without having to list the company on the JSE.
The MF notes that Alexkor limited has been suffering losses and this provision will therefore be more suitable. The MF notes that the amendment will make room for the improvement and calculated advancement of the Minister’s intention to transform Alexkor into a profit-making organisation. Also, the close co-operation of the Minister with the Minister of Finance and the Cabinet is reassuring for the efficient and effective delivery intended.
The MF supports the Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Mr Chairperson, on behalf of Minister Radebe I would like to thank all the members who have participated in this debate as well as those members’ legal advisers and the state law advisers who assisted us with this amendment. I would like to thank the different parties for supporting this Bill.
However, I would like to put on record that we reject with contempt any innuendos that seem to suggest that Government is striking deals that will compromise a transparent process of disposing of the shares of Alexkor. That is devoid of any truth. I would also like to assist the hon member, who does not seem to understand what the alienating of shares is about. It is privatisation. It is simply the separation of the shares from the state to whatever other party. Also, like the hon member, English is not my mother tongue, but I think with the little bit of knowledge I have, I can understand it. But I thank the hon member very much for supporting the amendment, all the same. [Applause.]
Debate concluded
Bill read a second time.
GAS BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Mr Chairperson and hon members, it gives me great pleasure to introduce this Bill. Due to the significance of gas to our people, our economy and our prosperity, allow me to introduce the Gas Bill, which is a regulatory framework for the gas industry in South Africa.
Hon members may ask: Why do we need such a Bill? The Bill is a realisation of at least two components of Government’s White Paper on Energy Policy published during December 1998. The first is to increase energy security through diversity of supply. The second states that a gas regulatory authority will be established to implement a minimal regulatory regime consistent with the orderly development of a competitive gas industry through granting licences for the transmission, storage, distribution and trading in piped gas.
Over the past few years the use of coal gas has expanded rapidly from approximately 25 million gigajoules in 1994 to approximately 40 million gigajoules in the year 2000, a growth of approximately 60% in just six years. The growth is indicative of the potential for the expansion of the gas industry in South Africa.
Currently the development of the gas industry in South Africa is expected to be undertaken primarily in the private sector, leading to large investment, for example, envisaged in cross-border gas transmission pipelines which can cost in the order of $500 million. In order to manage risk, investors have requested - and rightly so - a regulatory framework and certainty from Government. Such certainty will facilitate investment in both upstream and downstream sectors of the gas industry.
Not only will such regulatory certainty ensure investment and orderly development in South Africa, but it will also lead to regional development. The gas industry has a wide appeal and a potential in the SADC region, the same as we have in the electricity grid. Internationally, the national grid is recognised as the fuel of the 21st century. The use of natural gas is rapidly expanding worldwide. It has a number of environmental advantages compared to fossil fuels such as oil and coal. Not only does it burn cleaner, producing less smoke and sulphur oxide, but it produces less carbon dioxide per unit of energy and therefore has a lesser impact on global warming - though we are experiencing global cooling in Cape Town!
With the establishment of the need for a gas regulatory regime, the Gas Bill has been subjected to a comprehensive consultation process. I will outline the main aspect of the consultation in chronological order. A gas policy working group was formed during May 1994. Its work has superseded the White Paper process during 1995. A SADC report entitled Study of the Economics of Natural Gas Utilisation in Southern Africa was also released during June 1995.
A team of World Bank experts made two visits to South Africa and were in consultation with us. A senior official of the US department of energy also had occasion to visited South Africa in order for us to consult and confirm. Eighteen written submissions on gas were received from the gas component of the draft White Paper. We have also had numerous consultations with our colleagues in Malaysia, courtesy of Patronas.
A team from the International Energy Agency made two visits to South Africa and again we had an opportunity to do a comparative analysis. Two continuous gas workshops were held during October 1996 and during February and March 2000 the department held two workshops which were attended by representatives of stakeholders from all over South Africa. This is just to illustrate the extent to which we have sought to consult and to gain different views on this Bill.
The gas industry conforms to the criteria of natural monopoly. Under monopoly conditions players, especially consumers, expect a certain amount of protection from abuses. Government has set the following objectives as a result: The orderly development, operation and provision of gas services, the key being the transmission infrastructure; ensuring the provision of gas as soon as possible at the lowest possible price; promoting comparative markets by facilitating gas-on-gas competition through third party access to transmission pipelines; and balancing conflicting interests between consumers and suppliers.
Therefore, it is deemed necessary that in this regulation we introduce the following appropriate essential element. In addition to the orderly growth of the gas industry; we will help to stimulate the growth of the natural gas industry, promote economically efficient and sustainable development of the gas industry; promote investment and clear up uncertainty; promote regional gas trade; obtain stability in the energy supply; meet technical, health, safety and environmental requirements; promote competition and reduce monopoly abuse, and protect consumers, while balancing the interest of the suppliers as well.
The gas Bill has not just appeared overnight, as has been suggested. The many stakeholders have addressed themselves to the specific aspects of the Bill that I have raised.
I have mentioned earlier that the Bill does not cover reticulation. In terms of Schedule 4, Part B of the Constitution, gas regulation is a local government matter, but gas reticulation is not defined in the Constitution. So gas reticulation is defined in this Bill as meaning the transportation of bulk gas by pipe lines with a general operating pressure of no more than 2 bar gauge.
Clause 10 addresses a number of important safeguards to ensure both the independence of the gas regulator, as well as the fairness of its decision. Any decision of the gas regulator may be brought under review by the High Court.
With regard to regulator infrastructure, the Cabinet has decided to investigate the possibility of rationalising and consolidating the various regulators. So while we are, at this point, establishing the gas regulator, this does not in any way preclude, in future, that Government may want to consolidate energy regulators so that the electricity, gas and petroleum regulators may all be under one regulator.
Through this Bill, licences will be required for the construction of gas transmission, storage, distribution, liquefaction and regasification facilities or the conversion of existing infrastructure into such facilities. Separate licences will be required for construction, operation and trading in gas. Such licences are issued for a period of 25 years or longer, as the gas regulator may determine. This is important in order to ensure that we provide security of tenure for the operators in the industry.
This is a very fine Bill. It will ensure that, between South Africa and Mozambique, we are able to introduce gas into our economies. It will also ensure that, between South Africa and Namibia, we also have an orderly mechanism to bring gas into our economy. For those investors who are interested in the projects, be it in Mozambique or Namibia, I want to assure them that Government has applied its mind in order to make sure that their investments will be safe.
As a result of a peculiar situation, where South Africa is introducing this important resource from a foreign country and the market is not yet well developed, Government has had to have a concession whereby an agreement has been signed by Sasol. That agreement is referred to in section 36 of the Gas Bill. I thank the committee for having applied its mind, intensively, in order to make sure that this agreement is scrutinised by the committee and in that they used their minds to ensure that they guided us and supported Cabinet in ensuring that a special dispensation is provided for Sasol.
I would like to thank the task team that has worked on this Bill, the committee and all the parties who worked very hard on the Bill. I also thank the people who assisted us with resources and advice, like Petronas, in the process of developing this Bill, the expertise in the Central Energy Fund and the different departments in Government who were part of the gas task team.
We have made sure that, through this Bill, the promising future of the gas industry in South Africa will be exploited without fear and without favour to any parties that are not deserving of participating actively in this important industry. [Applause.]
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Mr Chairperson, the DP supports the Bill before this House. Gas has, historically, been a very minor player as far as its market share in South Africa’s energy mix is concerned. If one looks at the market share per energy carrier gas is at about 2%, oil products 32%, coal 28% and electricity 22%. If one looks further one finds that about 90% of electricity is coal fired which emphasises the dominant role which coal plays in our energy equation.
The White Paper on the Energy Policy of the Republic of South Africa has as one of its major objectives the need to pursue energy security by encouraging a diversity of both supply sources and primary energy carriers. The DP supports this objective. The gas industry, albeit in its infancy, will play a role in achieving this objective.
With the successful gas exploration projects in and around South Africa, namely the Temane and Pande gas fields in Mozambique and the Forest and Kudu gas fields off our west coast, gas has the potential to become a significant player in the energy equation of South Africa. Once these gas fields have come on stream and are fully exploited, the contribution of gas is set to rise to upwards of 7%. The norm for industrialised countries is between 15% and 20%.
Natural gas would not only broaden the mix but could also provide a cost- efficient and environmentally friendly source of energy for South Africa. However, the investment that is required from players in the industry to bring the project to fruition is extensive, with both business and financial risks attached to developing a viable and sustainable gas industry.
What has to be noted is that South Africa’s coal is amongst the cheapest in the world thus making the task to ensure that gas is a competitive energy source a difficult challenge. Unlike most developed countries, the household market will, mainly because of climatic reasons, not provide a sufficient viable base load for gas. This will have to be developed. Large- scale power generation which often forms the base load for natural gas is, because of relatively cheap coal, generally not an option in this case. It is within this context that potential investors viewed the lack of an investor-friendly legislative, regulatory and fiscal regime as a major factor inhibiting the growth of this industry in our country.
If one looks at the gas supply chain, on the one side, one finds that the exploration for gas and exploitation of gas reserves are covered by the Mines Act. On the other side, the reticulation of gas could be covered by the Competition Act. The intervening function of transmission, storage and distribution has, at this stage, no regulatory regime.
This Bill is designed to fill that hiatus and has, as its purpose, the promotion of an orderly development of the piped gas industry, the establishment of a national regulatory framework, and the establishing of a national gas regulator as custodian and enforcer of the national regulator framework. It is the tabling of this Bill that gives investors, like Sasol, the confidence to proceed with a R10 billion investment, an investment involving further exploration, construction on the pipeline, storage facilities and the development of base load for gas - an investment which will kickstart the industry.
While recognising the need for an investor-friendly regulatory environment, the portfolio committee was also conscious of the need to promote competition to protect the consumer, and ensure access to gas in an affordable and safe manner. The challenge was to tread a fine line between these two needs. This, I believe, has been achieved.
On the transmission side, while the Bill grants exclusive transmission rights to Sasol for a 10-year period it balances this monopoly with the obligation to allow third party access, that is access to competitors, if there is underutilised capacity in the pipeline. In this context, the regulator will also be in a position to regulate the cost of transmission.
On the distribution side, while the Bill grants exclusive rights to distributors in certain geographic areas, for a specified time, this right will be coupled to an obligation to supply, likewise, at a regulated price. It must be emphasised that the Bill has as its objective the promotion of competition in the industry and I believe that realistic timeframes have been set in the Bill for gas-on-gas competition.
Finally, I believe that this Bill will deliver specific benefits to Southern Africa. It will deliver a major investment in infrastructure, a contribution to economic growth, a clean alternative fuel, black economic empowerment, increased access to new technologies for industry, skills training and an increased tax base. [Applause.]
Ms S D MOTUBATSE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the ANC committed itself to an integrated approach to energy supply in order to provide energy to industry and household. Today, I wish to tell the House that the ANC is delivering. The passing of the Bill that is currently before the House will herald a new era in the South African energy sector by establishing a regulatory and legal framework for the natural gas industry in South Africa. The Bill will create certainty for investors to invest the massive sums needed to get the industry off the ground.
Batho ba gešo ba nyaka mešomo. Magaeng a rena dinyakwa di lebane. Eupša ge go na le motho wo tee goba ba babedi bao ba šomago ka lapeng, re a tseba gore bupi le swikiri di ka se hlokagale. Ka gorealo, maphelo a tlo kaonefala.
Mathomong a ngwaga Mopresitente o ile a kgopela Maafrikaborwa ka moka a re lenyaga a re swaraneng ka diatla, re šomeng mmogo go aga naga ya rena, elego go aga setšhaba. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Our people need employment. In our villages the needs are appropriate. But if there are one or two people who are employed in a family, we know that there will not be a shortage of maize meal and sugar. In this way life will be better.
At the beginning of the year, the hon the President asked all South Africans to unite and work together to build our country, viz to build the nation.]
Sasol has done exactly that: it heeded the presidential call and invested R10 billion in this gas pipeline from Mozambique’s Pande and Temane gas fields to South Africa. The question that arises is, what opportunities are there? Firstly, for the economy there will be a range of significant new investments. Sasol itself has committed a large sum of money similarly for other related projects in the whole of the Southern African region. Other interested parties are also eager to build a gas pipeline from the Kudu gas fields in Namibia and the newly discovered West Coast Fields in South Africa to Cape Town and, possibly, Mossel Bay, to extend the life of the Mossgas plant.
Part of this gas will replace coal, specifically in Sasol’s Sasolburg chemicals plant, with considerable cost and environmental benefits. Sasol already has a gas network in place from which industrial customers use 40 million gigajoules of gas per year. Within four or five years Sasol will grow this market to twice its size and use the full capacity of the pipeline.
Some of these new markets will come about because gas has replaced electricity or coal - some of it from the construction of gas-fired power stations and some from greenfields industries which are uniquely suited to gas, such as ceramics and glass industries, and small businesses such as bakeries.
Secondly, natural gas is environmentally friendly. Even though it is a fossil fuel, its use results in less environmental impact than that of coal and oil. This is particularly significant now, as South Africa prepares to host the Earth Summit next year. As we prepare to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, gas will play a significant part in reducing the carbon emissions in the South African region and in the energy sector as a whole.
The route that the Mozambican pipeline will take will maximise development potential for communities along the way. The Maputo Corridor will also become an ``energy corridor’’. Gas will now be a viable energy source for the industry in all the regions along the pipeline route, including major towns in Mpumalanga, without major investment in more transmission pipelines.
Natural gas will also increase competition in our energy markets. This is good news for the economy as a whole, and for the industry, but especially for poor households. One effect will be to reduce the price of LPG, which will make this safe and efficient energy source affordable to poor households.
These potential economic developments hold great potential for black economic empowerment at all levels. Government has built black economic empowerment into the Bill before the House, as well as into the agreement with Sasol.
Se se ra gore borakgwebo ba banyenyane le bona ba tlo kgona go šomišana le Sasol gammogo le Mmušo. Eupša Mmušo o swanetše go kgonthišiša gore molao wokhwi o šomišwa ka tshwanelo ka gore baradia bon ga ba ke ba hlokwa.
Le ge gase e išwa dikgwebong pele, ke nyaka go botša batho ba rena gore Mmušo o tlo ba bolelela le bona. Mmušo o ikemišeditše gore gase e feleletse e le ka malapeng gore basadi ba kgone go apea le go ruthetša malapa. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[This means that the small businessmen (entrepreneurs) will be able to work with Sasol together with the Government. However, Government must ensure that this law is not misused because there is likely to be corruption.
Even if gas is supplied to the businesses first, I want to tell our people that Government will give them their chance also. The Government is prepared to have gas reaching the families so that women can cook and keep their homes warm.] The House should realise that the ANC is delivering. [Applause.]
Mr E J LUCAS: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the primary objective of the Gas Bill is to create a regulatory framework for the orderly development of the natural gas industry - an industry that at this point largely does not exist. We sincerely hope that the industry will be established quickly and grow stronger after the discovery of large natural gas fields in Mozambique, Namibia and off the South African coast.
The IFP fully supports moves to add new elements into South Africa’s energy mix. For too long we have relied on fossil fuels, particularly coal, as our main feedstock for power generation. Yes, coal is extremely cheap and South Africa is blessed with large reserves. But it should be clear to everyone that the coal reserves will not last forever, and that coal-fed power generation brings with it environmental degradation through air and water pollution. A responsible government will study these factors and come to the conclusion that long-term reliance on coal is not sustainable. The IFP applauds our Government for coming to the responsible conclusion that the alternative feedstock for power generation should also be included in our overall energy mix. In this particular case, natural gas can become a very important energy source, not just as a long-term replacement for coal, but also as an alternative to coal. South Africa’s coal reserves are large and there is no reason why natural gas cannot add to or competes with coal as an energy source over the next few decades.
The development of a natural gas industry in South Africa will not only diversify our energy mix, but will also have numerous other benefits. I want to highlight just two of these benefits. Firstly, it could reasonably be expected that the creation of a large new industry would add to overall economic development. The creation of a natural gas industry will require large amounts of capital for infrastructure development, thereby leading to local and foreign direct investment. Secondly, the infrastructural development will create jobs - not just in building the pipelines, plants and power stations, but also through the establishment of smaller industries that provide goods and services to the industry.
The development of a natural gas industry in South Africa can thus reasonably be expected to boost our economic growth. The IFP has been consistent in its calls for accelerated economic growth to address our many social problems. We believe that the creation of new capital and labour- intensive industries such as natural gas will provide us with the opportunity to accelerate our economic growth.
Let me now turn to the Bill itself. By establishing a regulatory framework at the start of the natural gas industry development, the Government is creating an environment that will be stable and predictable for any potential investors and operators. These conditions amount to certainty for investors who require a business-friendly environment before deciding to invest billions of rands in new projects. The Bill also creates an independent gas regulator which will oversee the regulatory framework and issue licences to gas operators. This is important as it clearly establishes the rules of the game and controls excessive Government participation in the gas industry, as well as the possibility of Government interference.
The Bill will create competition in the gas industry as it allows for third- party access to infrastructure such as gas pipelines, which are enormously capital intensive. This competition should benefit both large industrial customers and small residential customers.
The Bill also creates the possibility of power generators and enables customers to have the choice in future of switching from one energy source to another, for instance from coal-fired power stations to gas-fired power stations. As I have pointed out, this is particularly important in that South Africa relies too heavily on fossil fuel for power generation. In addition to environmental concerns, coal reserves will not last forever and South Africa should plan for the future by introducing alternative sources into our energy mix.
The Bill grants Sasol Limited an exclusivity period of 10 years for its Mozambican operation. Sasol plans to build a 900-kilometre pipeline from Pande gas fields in Mozambique to bring natural gas to Gauteng and then distribute it from there. The operation is very capital intensive with billions of rands to be spent on the pipeline, the conversion of existing plants at Sasolburg and the establishment of other infrastructure.
This aspect of the Bill has been controversial in that it formalises a commercial agreement between the governments of South Africa and Mozambique and Sasol Limited into law and protects Sasol Limited from competition for 10 years. Nevertheless, had it not been done in this manner, there was a possibility that Sasol Limited would not have gone ahead with the project, as it could be considered a very risky investment.
Furthermore, the Mozambican project will have numerous benefits for that country’s economy, thereby fulfilling the South African Government’s commitment to regional development. In addition, it is expected that a large number of smaller industries, both in goods and services, will be created along the length of the pipeline. This will create jobs and improve the economic position of the communities in close proximity to the pipeline.
The IFP will vote in favour of the Gas Bill as it facilitates economic growth, job creation and investments and the orderly, regulated development of the natural gas industry in South Africa. [Applause.]
Mnr A H NEL: Mevrou die Speaker, laat my toe om die voorsitter, mnr Duma Nkosi, met sy hantering van die wetgewing in die komitee, en die departement met hulle werk, asook die belangegroepe, geluk te wens. Ons in die Nuwe NP sal die wetgewing steun, wat natuurlik nie beteken dat ons met elke jota of tittel saamstem nie.
Die saak wat ek vandag wil behandel, is die grondwetlike verpligting van die wetgewende gesag, naamlik toesig en oorsig oor die uitvoerende gesag. Die wetgewing voor ons is ‘n sprekende voorbeeld van die tendens om weg te beweeg van hierdie uiters belangrike rol van die Parlement, en ek sal hierdie wetgewing, en die lede van die ANC se mening in die portefeuljekomitee, gebruik as voorbeeld om my stelling te staaf. Kom ons kyk eers wat sê die Grondwet: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A H NEL: Madam Speaker, allow me to congratulate the chairman, Mr Duma Nkosi, on his handling of the legislation in the committee, and the department on their work, as well as the interest groups. We in the New NP will support the legislation, which, of course, does not mean that we agree with every jot or tittle.
The matter I wish to deal with today is the constitutional obligation of the legislative authority, namely supervision of and oversight over the executive authority. The legislation before us is a telling example of the tendency to move away from this extremely important role of Parliament, and I will use this legislation, and the views of the members of the ANC in the portfolio committee, to substantiate my argument. Let us first see what the Constitution says:]
In section 42(3) there is a definite obligation to scrutinise and oversee executive action. Section 55(2)(b)(i) says, and I quote:
(b) to maintain oversight of
(i) the exercise of national executive authority, including the
implementation of legislation ...
And in terms of section 56(a), Parliament and its committees have the right to summon any person to appear before it.
‘n Grondwet is egter slegs so goed soos die mate waarin daaraan uiting gegee word. Toe ons nuut was, en gevul met die geesdriftige passie van die nuut-bekeerdes, het ons die wette so geskryf dat daar deeglik met die Parlement rekening gehou moes word. As bewys dat die ANC hierdie begrippe verstaan, is in die tyd van die Regering van Nasionale Eenheid wette geskryf waarin toesig veral vasgeskryf is in wetgewing wat voorgelê is deur Ministers wat nie aan die wenparty behoort het nie.
My waarneming is dat met verloop van tyd die ANC-regering al meer sensitief vir kritiek geword het, en is selfs hulle eie mense se kritiek binne komitees meer en meer met ‘n ysterhand vasgevat. [Tussenwerpsels.] ‘n Goeie voorbeeld hiervan is gewese lid Andrew Feinstein en die sage oor die wapenaankope in die Staande Komitee oor Openbare Rekeninge. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Toe kom die uitspraak van die Konstitusionele Hof oor regter Heath se posisie as voorsitter van ‘n eenheid van die uitvoerende gesag. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die hof het bevind dat die onafhanklikheid en skeiding van magte tussen die uitvoerende en regsprekende gesag aangetas is. Hierdie uitspraak word nou gebruik om in verskeie wetsontwerpe die toesig van die wetgewende gesag oor die uitvoerende gesag af te water, hoewel natuurlik nie fundamenteel nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
So byvoorbeeld word die reg van ‘n komitee om enigiemand, ook ‘n Minister, te roep om voor die komitee te verskyn nie aangetas nie. Die reg, egter, van komitees om deel te wees en toesig te hê oor die aanstelling van rade, tribunale, en soos in hierdie geval, die raad van die gasregulator, word egter totaal uitgeskakel.
In hierdie wetgewing het belangegroepe aanbeveel dat die portefeulje komitee deelname en toesig moet hê in die samestelling van die raad. Dit is verwerp. ‘n Eenvoudige wysiging deur die Nuwe NP dat die kortlys vir die aanwysing van die raad eers, net vir informasie, aan die komitee voorgelê moet word, is verwerp. ANC-lede in die komitee het die Heath-uitspraak voorgehou as rede, maar ook gesê dat dit nie meer nodig is nie, want dit is nou ``ons’’ Minister.
Die vraag is egter of the hofuitspraak oor Heath gebruik kan word om hierdie reg van komitees af te water. Die Konstitusionele Hof self sal die eerste wees wat sal erken dat daar nie so-iets soos absolute onafhanklikheid bestaan nie. Byvoorbeeld, die Konstitusionele Hof se regters word vir aanstelling aanbeveel deur die Regterlike Dienskommissie, waarin onder andere die Minister van Justisie, wat die uitvoerende gesag verteenwoordig, en 10 LPs, wat die wetgewende gesag verteenwoordig, dien. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is vir my as leek duidelik dat die Heath-uitspraak as sulks nie gebruik kan word om komitees se gesag in dié opsig te beperk nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Die reg om enigiemand, ook ‘n Minister, voor ‘n komitee te roep, lê in die hande van die lede van die komitee wat aan die regerende party behoort. Hoe het hierdie lede die afgelope tyd opgetree? In die geval van ons komitee is die uitspraak slegs, ``ons vertrou ons Minister.’’ Terloops, ek vertrou haar ook, maar ons skryf nie die wet vir haar nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] In die geval van die Komitee vir Veiligheid en Sekuriteit is Minister Steve Tshwete een keer geroep om voor die komitee te verskyn, maar toe hy nie die vrae kon of wou beantwoord nie, en deur die opposisie geloop is daaroor, weier die ANC-lede van die komitee om hom weer voor die komitee te roep.
Net eergister het die voorsitter van die Komitee vir Buitelandse Sake eenvoudig voorstelle van die opposisie partye geïgnoreer oor die omstrede direkteur-generaal van daardie departement. So, in effek raak ook hierdie maatreël al meer in onbruik, en vir my lyk dit asof selfs kritiek deur gewone parlementslede teenoor die ANC onderdruk word, of andersins verskuif word na hulle koukus, met ander woorde buite die oog van die kiesers daarbuite.
Die voorbeelde wat ek genoem het, en die afwatering van die portefeuljekomitees se magte, ook in hierdie wetgewing, is dalk nie aardskuddend nie, maar vir my wil dit voorkom asof die balans tussen die wetgewende en die uitvoerende mag al meer skeef getrek word tot nadeel van die Parlement.
Die Grondwet gee aan hierdie Parlement magte, maar daardie magte word deur lede van die regerende party geërodeer. Moenie dat ons spyt hieroor te laat kom nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[A constitution, however, is only as good as the extent to which it is given effect. When we were new, and filled with the enthusiastic passion of the newly converted, we drafted the laws in such a way that Parliament had to be thoroughly taken into account. As proof that the ANC understands these concepts, laws were drafted at the time of the Government of National Unity in which oversight was especially entrenched in legislation submitted by Ministers who did not belong to the victorious party.
My perception is that with the passage of time the ANC Government has become more and more sensitive to criticism, and even criticism by their own people within committees has been clamped down on severely. [Interjections.] A good example of this is former member Andrew Feinstein and the arms deal saga in the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. [Interjections.]
Then there was the verdict of the Constitutional Court about the position of Judge Heath as chairman of a unit of the executive authority. [Interjections.] The court found that the independence and separation of powers between the executive and judicial authorities had been encroached upon. This verdict is now being used in various Bills to water down the oversight role of the legislative authority over the executive authority, although, of course, not fundamentally so. [Interjections.]
So, for example, the right of a committee to call anyone, including a Minister, to appear before it, is not affected. The right, however, of committees to be part of and supervise the appointment of boards, tribunals and, as in this case, the board of the gas regulator, is being eliminated entirely.
In this legislation the interest groups recommended that the portfolio committee should participate in and have oversight over the composition of the board. This was rejected. A simple amendment by the New NP that the shortlisting for the appointment of the board should first, for information purposes only, be submitted to the committee, was rejected. ANC members in the committee gave the Heath verdict as the reason, but also said that it was no longer necessary, because now it was ``our’’ Minister.
The question, however, is whether the court’s verdict about Heath could be used to water down this right of committees. The Constitutional Court itself will be the first to admit that there is no such thing as absolute independence. For example, the judges of the Constitutional Court are recommended for appointment by the Judicial Service Commission, on which, inter alia, the Minister of Justice, who represents the executive authority, and 10 MPs, who represent the legislative authority, serve. [Interjections.] To me as a lay person it is clear that the Heath verdict as such cannot be used to limit the authority of the committees in this respect. [Interjections.]
The right to call anyone to appear before a committee, a Minister included, lies in the hands of the members of the committee belonging to the governing party. How have these members been acting lately? In the case of our committee the verdict is only: ``We trust our Minister.’’ By the way, I also trust her, but we do not write the law for her. [Interjections.] In the case of the Committee on Safety and Security, Minister Steve Tshwete was called once to appear before the committee, but when he could not or would not answer the questions, and was given a hard time by the opposition about it, the ANC members of the committee refused to call him before the committee again.
Just the day before yesterday the chairperson of the Committee on Foreign Affairs simply ignored suggestions by the opposition parties about the controversial director-general of that department. Therefore, in effect this measure is also falling into disuse to an increasing extent, and it would seem that even criticism of the ANC by ordinary members of Parliament is being suppressed, or has been removed to their caucus, in other words, out of the eye of the voters out there.
The examples that I have mentioned, and the watering down of the portfolio committee’s powers, also in this legislation, may perhaps not be earthshattering, but it would seem that the balance between the legislative and executive authorities is being increasingly skewed, to the detriment of Parliament.
The Constitution gives this Parliament powers, but those powers are being eroded by members of the governing party. Do not allow regrets about this to come too late. [Interjections.] [Applause.]]
Mrs B TINTO: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and hon members, the development of a natural gas industry in South Africa is a milestone in our energy sector and in our community as a whole. It is a significant sign of the ANC Government’s commitment to developing a world-class economy. The introduction of natural gas in South Africa will, initially, take off in two years, first in the north of the country from Mozambique and then in the Western Cape, from Namibia and possibly from the newly discovered West Coast gas fields.
The development of these fields, pipelines and corresponding industries requires considerable investment and will be accompanied by considerable uncertainty. Investors require a level of certainty that there will be sufficient returns before they will invest in this industry, and consumers require guarantees that prices will be competitive before they switch to gas.
The Gas Bill before this House provides for the establishment of an independent gas regulator and a regulatory framework, allowing for the orderly and efficient development of the gas industry, as well as the strategic development of a transmission network in the interest of the economy as a whole.
Government’s ultimate aim is to establish a fully competitive gas industry that contributes to the greatest possible extent to national development. There is a worldwide paradigm shift in energy governance, from state-run and planned energy sectors to market-driven energy sectors, exposed to all the risks inherent in a globalised economy. We see these risks already manifesting themselves in the liquid fuel sector, where the petrol price is subject to significant instability.
In addition, the market power of large global corporations can undermine the efficiency of the market mechanism. A further challenge is to achieve integration across energy industries where the boundaries between industries are blurring. For instance, in other countries gas competes with electricity as the energy source for the industry, but it is also one of the main fuels used to generate electricity. Thus, the gas regulator will face many challenges.
These challenges require a strong and well-resourced regulator. This Bill provides for the establishment of such a regulator. A major challenge in South Africa is capacity. Regulation requires very specialised skills which fetch a high price in job markets. It is imperative that we support the appropriate resourcing of the new regulator, especially during the years in which it is being established.
In terms of setting up regulators, we can learn from the experience of the national electricity regulator and avoid some of the early traumas that were experienced there. The Gas Bill will allow the new gas regulator to draw on some of the experiences of the NER and might use some of its capacity. The Department of Minerals and Energy is currently investigating the possibility of combining the regulation of gas and electricity.
The terms of the development and the source of initial investment for the introduction of gas from Mozambique have been set out in an agreement with Sasol. The discovery of more gas in the Western Cape has also created more potential. It is possible that this gas could extend the life of the Mossgas plant or provide gas for a new power station in the Cape Town area if this proves to be economically viable.
Oosomashishini abasakhasayo, abanjengabaya banamashishini okubhaka namanye, baya kuba nakho nabo ukufumana kule rhasi kuba amaxabiso ombane, ngamanye amaxesha, aphezulu kakhulu. Ixabiso lombane liphakamile kunelo lerhasi. Imigaqo-nkqubo ye-ANC ithetha kakhulu ngophuhliso loosomashishini abasakhasayo. Eli lelinye lamathuba okwenza oko. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Small businesses, like bakeries, will be able to get gas because the cost of electricity is sometimes too high. The cost of electricity is higher than that of gas. The policies of the ANC say a lot about the development of small business. This is the time to do just that. [Applause.]]
Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, the UDM welcomes the agreement entered into by Sasol, the South African Government and Mozambique for the liquidification and regassification of natural gas from Pande in Mozambique to Secunda in South Africa. The distribution and transmission of gas from Mozambique through Mpumalanga to Sasol, and to points of ultimate consumption and metriculation systems, will indeed contribute to job creation and economic growth of both South Africa and Mozambique.
Mohlomphegi Tona o hlagisitse molaokakanywa wa go tšea gabotse, wa go ba le ditlhologelo tša go tšea gabotse, wa go ba le maikemisetso a go tšea gabotse, wa go tla go ba le dipoelo tša go tsea gabotse setshabeng. Wo ke molaokakanywa wa go se tseele motho sa gagwe gomme wa fa motho o mongwe ka maikemisetso a go rata go thabisa o mongwe. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[The hon the Minister has introduced a reasonable Bill with reasonable interest, and reasonable intentions, which will reap good results from the nation. This is a Bill that does not take anything from anyone but gives something with the intention of making someone happy.]
The involvement of black empowerment groups in Mpumalanga and further on to Sasol will capacitate the previously disadvantaged communities. Our portfolio committee, without exception, undertook a trip to Mozambique to conduct an inspection in loco in order to get first-hand information on the availability and viability of gas in Mozambique and its importation into South Africa.
We all came back satisfied that there is a need to promote the orderly development of the piped gas industry in this country. We were also unanimous in our decision that there is a need to establish a regulatory framework and a national gas regulator as the custodian and enforcer of the national regulatory framework, and to provide for matters connected therewith.
The UDM welcomes and supports this Bill.
Ms N V CINDI: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and hon members, gas was discovered in Mozambique and Namibia decades ago. The apartheid regime’s policy of destabilising its neighbours led to gas fields not being adequately developed. The Mozambique gas field is a significant example in this regard. The field was discovered in 1960 during the colonial era. The subsequent wars, first against the Portuguese colonisers and then against the Rhodesian and South African-backed Renamo movement, prevented the Mozambican government from exploiting the gas so as to develop the Mozambican economy.
The 1994 democratic breakthrough in our country brought a new era to the Southern African region. The ANC-led Government’s policy on the region and the continent is informed by a desire for better integration, co-operation and utilisation of the natural resources for investment, economic growth and prosperity, to fight the scourge of poverty and create a better life for all the people of the region.
Many initiatives, particularly this one, are living testimony of the visionary leadership of the ANC, which is the creation of a caring society, peace with one’s neighbours and development for all. The development of the gas industry in both Mozambique and Namibia will facilitate significant foreign investment in the region. South Africa’s largest energy markets will create economies of scale necessary for investment in pipelines and other infrastructure. Once the industry is established, small industries will flourish in neighbouring countries.
Angola has far larger gas reserves than Mozambique and Namibia, but these cannot be used. The political instability in this part of our region inhibits the development of industrial markets, making the building of pipelines impossible. This potential development makes the search for peace in these areas more urgent. The President’s Millennium African Recovery Programme, should include a vision for a planned African gas network.
In conclusion, it may be possible to use technologies such as liquified natural gas as an alternative to pipelines in the Southern African context. New developments allow for smaller plants to be built, which would, in turn, allow remote reserves to be used and would also introduce more competition in the gas market.
Mnr J P I BLANCHÉ: Mevrou die Speaker, die Gaswetsontwerp skryf ‘n nuwe hoofstuk in die nywerheidsrevolusie van Suidelike Afrika. Jare gelede toe Sasol tot stand gekom het, het min mense besef watter nywerheidsreus hy in Suid-Afrika sou word. So verheug was die Vrystaat oor hierdie toevoeging tot sy ekonomie, dat hy met die stigting van die dorp Sasolburg besluit het dat die dorp se motorregistrasie OIL sal wees. Almal het die windpomp wat regoor Suid-Afrika by plaaslike vulstasies tot stand gekom het, verwelkom. Amaglug-glug is deur die NP-regering gehelp om te leer loop en sy man onder die pompe by vulstasies te staan.
Vandag gaan ons voort om die gasnywerheid sy plek te laat inneem in die ontwikkeling van Afrika se armste land, ons buurstaat Mosambiek. Die van ons wat die stigting van Sasol en Secunda beleef het, weet watter rol hulle gespeel het in werkverskaffing en ontwikkeling van die Noordoos-Vrystaat en Mpumalanga se hoëveld by Secunda tot stand gebring het. Die van ons wat betrokke was by die stroomafnywerhede sal vir die Huis kan sê watter ekonomiese opbloei dit veroorsaak het in die produkte soos petroleum uit steenkool. Dit het nuwe plastiek en ander chemiese bedrywe tot stand gebring, tesame met duisende werksgeleenthede vir Suid-Afrikaners van alle rasse.
Min het ons geweet dit sal die trots van ons ontwikkeling in hierdie wêreld wees. Sasol het homself in ons harte gevestig: vanaf die taxi-eienaar tot die babaseuntjie wat sy waentjiewiele laat ``spin’’ het sodat Ouma en Oupa agtergebly het met die hoop dat hy nie te vêr sal gaan nie. Selfs die spietkops kon vir amaglug-glug nie vang nie. Kyk hoe vêr het petrol uit steenkool vir ons gevat.
Ek glo dat politici vandag ‘n les hieruit moet leer. As ons die geruite vlag vir Suid-Afrika wil swaai, moet ons vertroue in ons mense se vermoëns hê. Hierdie mylpaal in die geskiedenis van petroleumgas spreek van die vertroue wat ons in Suid-Afrikaners en hulle skeppingsvermoë het.
Ek wil afsluit deur my gelukwense en dank, saam met die portefeulje voorsitter en die portefeulje komitee, aan die departement wat die wetsontwerp opgestel het, oor te dra. Ek wil vir hulle sê: mag amaglug-glug voortgaan om van Suid-Afrika ‘n wenland te maak.
Die FA steun hierdie wetsontwerp. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, the Gas Bill is writing a new chapter in the industrial revolution of Southern Africa. Years ago when Sasol came into existence, very few people realised what an industrial giant it would become in South Africa. The Free State was so delighted at this addition to its economy that, when the town Sasolburg was established, it was decided that the motor registration for the town would be OIL. Everyone welcomed the windmill which was established at local petrol stations throughout South Africa. The NP government helped Amaglug-glug to get off the ground and to hold its own amongst the pumps at the petrol stations.
Today we are proceeding to allow the gas industry to take its place in the development of Africa’s poorest country, our neighbouring state Mozambique. Those of us who experienced the establishment of Sasol and Secunda know what role they played in job creation and development of the North Eastern Free State and the establishment of Secunda on the Mpumalanga highveld. Those of us who were involved with the secondary industries will be able to tell the House what an economic boom it created in products such as petrol from coal. It established new plastic and other chemical industries, together with thousands of job opportunities for South Africans of all races.
Little did we know that it would become the pride of our development in this part of the world. Sasol established itself in our hearts: from the taxi owner to the baby boy who spins his pram’s wheels so that grandma and grandpa remain behind with the hope that he will not go too far. Not even the traffic officers could catch amaglug-glug. Just look how far petrol from coal has taken us.
I believe that politicians should learn a lesson from this today. If we want to wave the chequered flag for South Africa we should have confidence in the abilities of our people. This milestone in the history of petroleum gas speaks of the confidence we have in South Africans and their creative ability.
I want to conclude by conveying my congratulations and thanks, together with the portfolio committee chairperson and the portfolio committee, to the department who compiled the Bill. I want to say to them: May amaglug- glug continue to make South Africa a winning country.
The FA supports this Bill.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the MF acknowledges that our gas industry is on rather a small scale. The industry, however, aims to expand its productivity based on natural gas fields in Southern Africa. The MF also notes that the gas industry is unable to undertake this expansion due to the absence of a legal framework, and sees the expansion of the industry as an advantage to the nation economically. The MF therefore notes the earnest need for a legal framework, which the Gas Bill provides. The MF finds the promotion of sufficient, effective and sustainable operation of gas transmission, the storage and distribution facilities, and trading services as reassuring in attaining proper delivery.
The MF applauds the accommodation made for investment and gas trade between South Africa and other countries. This is sure to be an advantage in the global economy. The MF supports the introduction of licensing conditions that will enable all owners and companies in the gas industry from previously disadvantaged backgrounds to become operative. However, charity does begin at home, and the Bill is aimed at promoting access to gas in an affordable and safe way. That would certainly please our citizens.
The institution of equity, in the light of ensuring that all gas operations and the need and interests of all parties concerned are taken into consideration, is admirable. The MF expresses its relief at the provision to ensure the safe economic and environmentally responsible transmission, distribution and storage of gas.
The MF supports the Gas Bill. [Applause.]
Mr G G OLIPHANT: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, comrades and friends, the ANC election victories in 1994 and 1999 respectively did not only bring about the end of apartheid and the birth of democracy in South Afica, but also the possibility of unlocking the true economic potential of the Southern African region.
The Bill before us represents a milestone in the continued development of South Africa and Southern Africa towards a better Africa. A major new industry is being created co-operatively between the South African and Mozambican governments, soon to be followed by Namibia and perhaps other Southern African states.
The Bill is also part of the process of implementing the energy policy for gas, as laid down in the White Paper on Energy, as well as the furthering of other White Paper goals like diversifying energy supply, promoting environmentally friendly energy sources, and increasing economic and energy efficiency. It is further proof of the fulfilment of the ANC’s 1999 election manifesto, and confirms Government’s commitment to deliver.
There are two cornerstones to this new Gas Bill before the House today. The first is the establishment of the gas regulator to ensure, as in other network industries, that the gas industry in South Africa operates with the greatest possible economic efficiency, the widest possible access for producers and consumers, and the highest standards of health and safety.
The second cornerstone, which I will speak about today, is the landmark agreement between Sasol and the South African Government. I must take this opportunity to congratulate both the Minister of Minerals and Energy, and the Minister of Trade and Industry, as well as their respective departments’ staff, especially Dr Rod Crompton from the Department of Minerals and Energy … [Applause.]
Moenie skaam wees nie, man! [Do not be shy!]
I also wish to congratulate Sasol and the Mozambican government on a sustained effort over three years, which resulted in the signing of the final agreement last week by Cabinet. We look forward to our first gas from Mozambique in 2004. We commend the investors in this enterprise for the confidence they have shown in the potential of the Southern African region.
The agreement solves a simple problem that many governments face at the beginning of their gas industries. On the one hand, investors will not invest in any new industry such as gas, unless there are markets to guarantee them a return. On the other hand, consumers will not commit themselves to converting their industries to gas, unless gas supplies are present and sustainable.
Governments have solved this in a number of ways. Some have made the investment themselves, thus exposing the state to massive financial risks. Others have resorted to public-private partnerships, thus dividing the risk.
We have solved this problem through a special agreement, which grants several concessions to Sasol for the first 10 years of the gas industry, provided there are gas reserves for 25 years. In exchange, Sasol will invest billions of rands in infrastructure to establish the industry in Southern Africa. The bulk of this investment will be in the Mozambique- South Africa pipeline, where Sasol will invest around R10 billion, and the South African and Mozambique governments will invest a similar sum. The pipeline will not only bring gas to Sasol’s own plants, but will facilitate new industrial development along the route of the pipeline through Mpumalanga and Gauteng, as well as throughout the Sasol current transmission network, which will include KwaZulu-Natal.
The experience gained in establishing this industry, both in Government and in industry, will facilitate the development of the gas industry in the Western Cape, utilising gas from Namibia’s Kudu fields, and possibly form the newly discovered West Coast fields in South African territorial waters. A long-term prospect is the development of Angola’s gas resources and a Pan- African gas network, which is the kind of vision espoused by the President’s Millennium Africa Plan. Gas will also contribute to a cleaner energy industry in South Africa, and will potentially play a significant role in the generation of electricity in the next decade. Gas will also give rise to new industries, especially suited for gas - some comrades have referred to glass and ceramics. All of these present opportunities for new entrants as well.
We have also spoken about the establishment of the independent gas regulator, which will play an increasingly important part in the industry as competition is introduced over a 10-year agreement period. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the members of the portfolio committee. I must say all parties, including the DP, have been very sweet with regard to processing this Bill. Give them a big hand. [Applause.]
Finally, I would also like to thank the public for the comments made, because they have enriched this Bill a great deal by their participation. Lastly, I do not think this Bill, as my colleague Mr Nel has said, is taking away any oversight role of this committee. That role is entrenched in the Constitution and is stated in the Rules. We cannot put this type of oversight in every piece of legislation. We do not have the power to do that.
Jy weet mos ons het ‘n gawe Minister. Hoekom huil jy so baie? [Gelag.] [Applous.] [You know that we have a fine Minister. Why do you cry so much? [Laughter.] [Applause.]]
The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Speaker and hon members, this is my lucky day. I had two Bills and in both cases the parties have been unanimous in supporting the Bills. It just shows one that the ANC is the party to join. One cannot help but support us. So we welcome this wisdom. … [Interjections.]
Mr M J ELLIS: We like you, but we do not like the ANC!
The MINISTER: You cannot like me without the ANC. I am part and parcel of it. I think that it also confirms the depth of our energy policy.
I really appreciate the fact that the members have been able to elaborate in this House on the different advantages that this Bill brings for this economy. I just want to highlight the fact that with this Bill we will not only be in a position to facilitate meaningful black economic empowerment, but also to promote sustainable development for the communities along the areas in which development will take place.
I was fortunate last week to be in Manila, Philippines, where I witnessed a mega-gas project that is driven by Shell. There one was exposed to very interesting examples and opportunities on how one could integrate sustainable development in such projects. I can assure hon members that we will make sure that the lessons that we have learnt there are incorporated when we develop our own gas industry.
I also want to highlight, for the members, the fact that South Africa already produces approximately 65 million gigajoules of gas and 40 million gigajoules of condensate annually. That gas is wholly converted into liquid fuels by courtesy of the state’s Mossgas plant. So, as a state, we also have an interest in ensuring that we provide this certainty and an enabling environment.
Also, our own petroleum agency, a subsidiary of CEF which assists us with the regulation of this industry upstream, has done wonderful work. It has promoted and marketed South Africa’s natural gas reserves and resources. Such promotion has led to growing interest in offshore exploration in South Africa. That is why one has companies like Ranger Oil Limited, Pioneer Natural Resources, Energy Africa and Anschutz Overseas Corporation in South Africa today, and all of them are involved in exploration in South African waters. These are the companies that will benefit from the certainty that we are bringing about.
Members have highlighted the fact that as a result of this Bill we immediately leverage more than R10 billion of investment into the South African economy through the Sasol project, but I am also sure that our Shell colleagues are smiling wherever they are because, again, we provide them with certainty for the projects that they intend to pursue on the West Coast.
Hon Mr Nel must not worry about oversight. I think there is abundant oversight as it stands now. But I also think that it is important that members are able to distinguish between the role they have to play as watchdogs and the role that the executive has to play as the hands-on implementer of policy, which includes the appointment of people who must assist us in implementing policy.
I want to assure Ms Cindi that her dream about an African gas network is not a pipe dream. There is an actual real possibility to achieve that. In the new Africa programme we have, in fact, highlighted and prioritised infrastructural development and gas will, therefore, be one of the energy resources that will greatly benefit from an orderly approach to the development of gas, not just in South Africa but in the entire continent.
We have also seen, as a result of the very high performance of our own national electricity regulator in South Africa, that we are now just about to establish a SADC electricity regulator. I think that this Bill will also contribute towards creating better opportunities for a better regulated gas industry, not just in South Africa, but in Africa. There are plenty of opportunities for BE upstream.
There will be opportunities for joint ventures with exploring companies in the construction of pipelines, as well as in the wholesale, retail and supply of goods and services, especially for the Western and Eastern Cape, where we will be piping gas from Mozambique. For our own state enterprise Petrogas - which is just about to be formed by merging Mossgas and Soekor - this Bill, once again, provides an enabling environment.
For those from the Eastern Cape this Gas Bill is good news for Coega because it means that we create a better environment for Coega to access gas and do what it is meant to do. This Bill is also good news for those women in pottery and in cottage industry; it is the cherry on the top of the cake. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT TOWARDS CITIES AND RURAL TOWNS WITHOUT SLUMS
(Subject for Discussion)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Madam Speaker, Ministers and hon members, in December 1985 the General Assembly of the UN designated the first Monday in October as World Habitat Day. It is a day to be observed worldwide to reflect on the living conditions of human beings and for actions to be taken to address the shortcomings of these conditions.
The theme of this year’s celebration is ``Cities without slums’’. The UN has emphasised that it is a theme that should concern all humanity: One billion people live without adequate shelter and basic services in slums and informal settlements, with over half the world’s population living in cities and towns. The challenge of the urban millennium is to improve the living environment of the poor. Decisive actions need to be taken by national Government and local authorities to enable the poor to help themselves.
In particular, local authorities must initiate and implement policies that attack poverty and not the poor, that get rid of slums and informal settlements and do not neglect the people who live in these areas and that put an end to squatting and do not neglect the people who seek shelter. This theme is particularly pertinent for us as Government in South Africa at this time, as we fight to rid our country of poverty. It is estimated that almost a quarter of our people live in dire poverty. It is for this reason that we have established a new system of developmental local government in our country.
This decade-long process of transition, restructuring and transformation has resulted in the redemarcation of all municipal boundaries on the basis of ``one city, one tax base’’, to ensure that municipal revenues are used fairly to benefit all communities. The number of municipalities has been rationalised from over 1 100 to 284 in order to promote financial sustainability. The national Government has already established a number of local government support programmes with one common agenda, that is, the creation of a better life for all South Africans. I will deal with the programmes later. However, there is much that still needs to be done. The economic and social realities of poverty are still visible all around us, namely unemployment, underdevelopment, diseases of poverty, poorly developed rural and urban infrastructure and increasing informal settlements where people live in conditions of squalor. These are critical challenges that are still facing us.
Most towns and cities in South Africa are confronted with the legacy of the inside-out city where, historically, as a matter of former apartheid government policies, our people were located furthest away from economic opportunities. And, of course, when we came into Government there were still townships outside all our major cities that were lacking basic infrastructure like clean water, electricity and sanitation.
As we are all aware, the apartheid system ensured that our towns and cities were characterised by spatial fragmentation, political, racial and social division, heavy reliance on subsidies, particularly in public transport - regarding Minister Omar - urban sprawl and poor land use management, weak land and housing markets, inadequate planning for urban growth and environmental degradation.
These structural flaws in our cities mean higher daily living costs for our poor people, particularly in terms of travel and time distances to work. The result is the mushrooming of informal settlements closer to cities and industrial areas. This is what we see happening in Khayelitsha in the Western Cape, Duncan Village in the Eastern Cape, and Alexandra in Gauteng. The challenge that we are, therefore, faced with is to change this situation. We have to translate the successful process of local government restructuring into a sustained programme of social and economic development.
Since the advent of democracy, which brought with it hope, our people have exercised their right to move freely in the land of their birth and now they live in places of their choice. In some instances, of course, our people have taken it upon themselves to erect informal structures, amagali, on land not even designated for that purpose. It is for that reason that the Government has adopted and implemented various strategic integrated development programmes to accommodate this movement towards cities and economic hubs.
Developmental local government is about working with local communities to find sustainable ways to meet their social, economic and material needs, and to improve the quality of their lives. However, let me make this point clear that urbanisation is not a phenomenon peculiar to South Africa. The world’s population is rapidly urbanising, especially in developing countries. In 1950, only 30% of the world’s population was urbanised. By the year 2030, it is expected that 60% of the people will be living in cities.
Africa, with an annual growth rate of 5%, will experience the fastest urban growth in the world. South Africa is already slightly ahead of the world’s average, with 55% of the population currently living in urban areas. It is predicted that this figure will reach 70% by the year 2030. The rapid growth of our urban population means that many municipalities are, today, under pressure to provide basic services and infrastructure. Coupled with this is the challenge facing our city administrations to adequately manage their expanding populations.
Whilst it may be true that one of the causes of urbanisation is the natural population growth within cities and towns, we cannot ignore the impact apartheid policies and apartheid planning has had on the rise of informal settlements on the outskirts of our cities. Added to this, we are also faced with huge backlogs in service infrastructure, great distances between towns, townships and industrial areas.
Municipalities are, today, under pressure to develop strategies for spatial integration, while managing the impact of rapid urbanisation and service backlogs. Historically, provision of services and low-income housing has tended to reinforce the racial and spatial division of our cities. This had the effect of reducing social cohesion, social capital and economic opportunity.
Municipalities are encouraged to become more involved in housing delivery programmes by identifying and releasing suitable land for housing and also to ensure that housing projects are closer to our places of work. Similarly, municipalities are encouraged to upgrade the informal settlements where settlements in these areas have been approved. Another challenge for municipalities is to initiate physical planning interventions like the integrated spatial development framework that promotes urban nodes and activity corridors aimed at reducing spatial fragmentation and improving access for our people to economic opportunities.
Given the gross spatial malfunction of many of our urban areas, the transportation system, both public and private, has a crucial role to play in promoting an efficient and effective flow of goods, services and people between industrial, commercial and residential areas. It is particularly important that our people are enabled to access economic opportunities and urban infrastructure using affordable public transport.
Let me now touch on the development programmes which our Government has initiated. The most important programmes are the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Urban Renewal Programme which focus on the most marginalised sectors of our population: the unemployed, the rural and those living in informal settlements.
The Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme was officially launched on 7 July this year, and our focus has now shifted towards the implementation of this programme. However, this is dependent on a number of key issues, namely, support structures for the programme, planning and budgeting, harnessing of resources, programme management and capacity.
Capacity development programmes for municipalities and communities have already started. The Kgalagadi projects, for example, are mainly initiatives of communities. They have a bakery, and they have started a brick making factory, and goat-herding. Another programme is the Urban Renewal Programme which has been driven by various local initiatives in a diverse and somewhat unco-ordinated fashion, but with a strong focus on crime prevention.
Also, there is the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme. The aim of this programme is to enhance the development of the delivery process by focusing, for example, on the transfer of skills, the promotion of SMMEs using labour-intensive construction methods and maximising job creation opportunities. Similarly, we have also, since 1999, promoted the local economic development programme, not only within urban areas but also in rural areas.
In February, our President, Thabo Mbeki said that the Government would invest in our country’s economic infrastructure, and that high growth areas would be prioritised. Our President then identified sustainable development in rural and urban areas as a priority. [Interjections.] The primary aim of this programme is to shift local government understanding of local economic development from the implementation of ad hoc projects, to one that is focused on strategic interventions within the local economy. This must be based on a sound understanding of the local economy and comparative advantages.
Yes, we have an example, in Dysselsdorp. In Dysselsdorp we have a licorice factory. Through the local economic development fund, the national Government and the local municipality, in conjunction with private companies, were able to study the fynbos around the town. It was found to be suitable for the production of licorice. Although only 100 jobs were created, it ultimately means that 100 families will be able to leave Dysselsdorp and work in the nearby Oudtshoorn, George and Cape Town. This project, although small, has the potential to grow.
Let me also touch on the importance of the role of women in development. The ongoing struggle for equality, respect and dignity for each and every South African is essential to the task of fighting poverty and underdevelopment. This relates not only to questions of race and nationality, but also to the important issues of gender and disability. So when we target the issue of the eradication of poverty, we must pay special attention to black women, the majority of whom are still living in abject poverty. When we address issues of availability of productive resources, skills, jobs and other economic opportunities, as well as employment equity to ensure economic upliftment of our people, we have to pay special attention to the impact of these programmes on women.
To a large extent, however, our success depends on meeting the challenges of closer co-operation between spheres of government as an essential component of integrated sustainable development. Accordingly, we must conduct a sustained and successful offensive against poverty in our country by making visible progress in reducing the socioeconomic disparities that continue to scar and characterise our society. It is only then that informal settlements and the so-called slums will disappear completely. To achieve this, we will all have to work together to ensure that our integrated and sustainable development strategies succeed. [Applause.]
Mr E K MOORCROFT: Madam Speaker, the word ``slum’’ can mean many things to many people. To some, it can mean a blot on the landscape, an eyesore which must be obliterated at all costs. To others, like those who lived in District Six or Sophiatown, both of which were declared slums, the word can mean home. It can mean the place where they or their children were born. It can mean a place where the paint may be peeling from the walls and where the roof may spring a leak or two, but is home nonetheless, a place where the heart is and where one can do all the things that people living in more affluent surroundings can do - except, perhaps, that one can do them a lot cheaper.
Nonetheless, however resourceful people might be in surviving under slum conditions, and however successful they might be in overcoming the hardships they encounter there, the fact remains that the word ``slum’’ carries with it enormously negative connotations. It speaks of poverty, of dirt and disease, of danger and crime, and of deprivation. In short, it suggests the kind of place where we would rather not be. It is therefore not the kind of place where we would wish others to live. But the problem of slums cannot be addressed by way of the bulldozer or the front-end loader, as the lessons of District Six, Sophiatown and many other examples have taught us. There has to be a better way which this motion this afternoon is surely seeking to address.
Slums have been with us for a very long time. They are an unfortunate by- product of rapid urbanisation, and urbanisation, as the Deputy Minister mentioned, is a universal and an irrepressible phenomenon. Some of the worst slums the world has ever seen were to be found in what are today’s most developed countries, when the Industrial Revolution of the 18th and 19th centuries brought millions of rural dwellers into the cities of Europe and America. As is the case today with rural migration in South Africa, these people came in seeking a better life. Mercifully, a combination of social reform, proper planning and prosperous economic development has all but wiped out the worst of the slums in those countries.
Here in South Africa, urbanisation has yet to run its full course, and the effects of the massive influx of rural dwellers into our own urban areas can be seen in the scores of squatter camps which surround our towns and cities. These squatter camps represent slum conditions of the worst kind. The vast majority of them are unplanned; quite often they are illegal so that there can be no security of tenure; and they do not provide the inhabitants with even the most basic of services such as refuse removal, sanitation, electricity, water and roads. Were it not for the fact that South Africa enjoys a relatively benign climate, the conditions in these slums would be even more desperate than they already are.
So what is to be done? First of all, we have to accept that the urbanisation process is unstoppable, that it has a long course to run, and that it will present us with even greater challenges in future than it has already done. Urbanisation has to be accepted as a desirable phenomenon which offers greater prospects for social and financial advancement than life in rural areas. We then we have to accept the importance of an adequate housing policy and prioritise expenditure accordingly.
As far as the state is concerned, it has to accept that adequate state resources must be dedicated to housing development. The DP recognises that housing is one of many social claims against the financial fiscus, but maintains that housing is the most important delivery responsibility of Government. The success of the housing development programme in South Africa is totally dependent on Government’s financial commitment to this process. Without the equitable share allocation by national Government of budgetary resources to both provincial and national governments, local government will not be in a position to fulfil its functions and responsibilities with regard to housing delivery.
The private sector has geared up in the past four years to deliver low-cost houses at an increasing rate, in some provinces spending over R60 million a month on housing delivery. Yet our national housing budgetary allocations remains far below the 2% level. The Democratic Alliance believes that the private sector has a vital role to play in the provision of housing and that South Africa cannot address the massive housing challenge without the mobilisation of the collective resources, capacity, knowledge and skills in the private sector. We support the national Government’s stated intention to promote a broad partnership with non-state sectors as its central approach to meeting the housing challenge in South Africa. But we also believe that the Government has reneged on its stated commitments to the private sector as reflected in the Housing Accord and the Record of Understanding with mortgage lenders.
We believe that if slums are to be cleared and the housing backlog addressed, then the Government has to play a far more aggressive role in ensuring a more stable housing environment in order to attract private sector involvement. This it must do through the creation of market certainty and the guaranteeing of substantial annual budgetary commitments to the housing subsidy programme. Government also needs to launch vigorous national and provincial campaigns aimed at the resumption of the payment for goods and services and the reinstatement of the due process of law.
Perhaps one of the most pressing needs in the clearing or elimination of slums is the availability of suitable land. A critical component of housing delivery is the identification, allocation and development of land. Government must cut red tape so that land can become available for development without undue delay.
To overcome the problems associated with the provision of land, the DP supports the concept of land release areas. This involves the identification of land and the development in part of this area in order to provide beneficiaries with a formally planned area, secure tenure, and the basic level of services. The balance of housing subsidies could be allocated at a later date when such funding becomes available. Thus, instead of people invading an underdeveloped piece of land, these people would be officially allocated a clearly defined and surveyed site and receive formal tenure.
In conclusion, in order to eliminate slums from our towns and cities insofar as this is possible, the Government must support and promote a sustainable housing policy. A key feature in such sustainable policy must include the most effective use of such housing subsidy which might be available. At the same time, while providing such assistance the Government must ensure conditions conducive to housing delivery by the private sector. There must be a quick release of land, and development of that land should be incremental in nature. With the kick-start of secure tenure and basic service provision, the beneficiary can over time improve his or her starter home using his or her own sweat equity and whatever resources he or she might have available.
Our slums can be cleared in a humane and sustainable way, but this will need real commitment from both Government and nongovernment resources, and above all, it will need a carefully planned programme which will take the people most affected along with it. [Applause.]
Ms N E HANGANA: Chairperson and members of Parliament, 1 October 2001 is World Habitat Day. The theme of this day is ``cities without slums’’. This theme in our situation should be located within the context of a country undergoing transition to achieve a better life for all its people.
The nature of our democracy is being informed by the history and the context of its colonial and apartheid legacy. The policies that have been put in place should ensure that we produce programmes that will assist us in resolving contradictions created by our past. We have to mobilise, through our policies, all relevant social institutions, agencies, partners, stakeholders and communities to work hard and to support us in achieving the objective of housing the nation. The ANC remains committed to building communities through, amongst other things, providing adequate housing for all families.
On 9 February 2001, the President, in his state-of-the-nation address said,and I quote:
Gradually, step by step, our country proceeds further away from its painful past.
The President spoke of a racially divided society, sexism, no respect for human rights, repression, crime and corruption. Our people continue to endure this legacy of apartheid, and are equally confident in the transformation agenda which is being pursued by the ANC-led Government to create a society that is just, nonracial and democratic.
The apartheid legacy affects women in a very peculiar way. Yet, we need to recognise that women are not a homogenous entity. They are divided in terms of race, economic status, social and cultural background, education and political affiliation. These differences determine each individual woman’s material experience of the world that is still characterised by gender inequalities. These different experiences further define different needs, aspirations and priorities of women.
The time has come for us to launch a sustained offensive to wipe out poverty in our country and continent. The poorest of the poor in South Africa are women, particularly those living in the rural areas. Although women can and are able to make decision that impact on the general development of communities, their access to political and economic power is not commensurate with their numbers, needs and contributions. Because women and men organise their lives differently, largely due to their reproductive and productive roles, their priorities are not always the same. Women may require a house for a variety of purposes, including social and economic security, food security and health benefits. It is common practice for financial institutions to require a male mediator before granting a woman credit. The attitudes of employees in financial institutions also contribute to this hostile environment.
South Africa is a signatory to the Habitat Agenda, adopted in 1996 in Istanbul, Turkey. South Africa has committed itself to implementing the principles and goals of the Habitat Agenda. The habitat themes of adequate shelter for all and sustainable human settlement development are particularly important as broad objectives against which we can measure our own efforts. We are expected at other levels to forge professional and practical relationships with countries with similar conditions to ours.
Seventy-five per cent of South Africa’s population has an income level below R1 500 a month; most of them are unemployed. Poverty reduction is the greatest challenge facing the country at the beginning of the 21st century. Improved housing offers a substantive contribution to poverty reduction. If the benefits are to be maximised, however, it is critical that housing support targets those most in need.
The homeless and poor squatters are the world’s most prolific producers of shelter. Our housing programmes are designed to provide adequate shelter. The most effective sustainable way to provide housing on scale is to direct development resources to poor communities. Pouring state funding into housing projects run by developers is less effective - and not bridges.
What are the challenges facing the Government as regards housing delivery? [Interjections.] Not bridges, we are not building bridges.
An HON MEMBER: [Inaudible]
Ms N E HANGANA: Voorsitter, hy is baie beskaaf. [Gelag.] [Chairperson, he is very civilised. [Laughter.]]
Do we have housing programmes in place? How far have we moved in terms of deracialising our society? Regarding urbanisation in South Africa, the Government has a clear programme of action which must be beneficiary consumer driven. The programmes are directed at ensuring that the beneficiaries of Government programmes participate in moving away from poverty and suffering towards a quality life for all, in keeping with our ideal of a better life for all. [Laughter.] Yes, it is a better life for all, we are not apologetic about it, it is a better life for all.
Our Urban Renewal Programme, as was articulated by our President in line with the objectives of a sustainable development programme, targets the following areas: Alexandra township in Gauteng, Motherwell and Mdantsane in the Eastern Cape, Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain in the Western Cape - but we are not chucking them out of the houses - KwaMashu and Inanda in KwaZulu- Natal, and Galeshewe in the Northern Cape. We are not chucking them out of the houses, we are making a better life for them. [Interjections.] Activities around these identified areas will be planned and implemented in a co-ordinated and integrated manner, and in a deliberate co-operation amongst key Ministers.
Communities in these areas must be mobilised to participate in the upgrading of their areas. Our development strategy is informed by our urban development vision. The next 25 years will see a significant urban growth. Together with the challenge of economic expansion, these phenomena are seen by the one and only, the ANC, as challenges and real opportunities to eradicate urban poverty and eliminate housing service backlogs. There has to be a fair distribution of the benefits of this growth. Together with the urban renewal, integrated sustainable rural development that will enable us to address the underdevelopment in rural areas and issues such as housing, water, sanitation, health, including HIV/Aids, pension payouts, poverty alleviation, etc, are at the centre of this programme.
There are a number of rural areas that have been identified for development. Issues mentioned in my speech on the various strategies do not seek to suggest that what we have done is the best we could do in the pursuit of our national ideal of cities and rural towns without slums. It is a bold indication that our Government has declared war on poverty.
Let us examine the role played by these big mouths of the DP and the New NP towards this noble effort of eradicating poverty in our country. The only contribution they have made so far is by voting against progressive strategies that are attempting to redress past inequalities. [Interjections.] That is what they are doing. They are unashamed about their double standards towards the poor without shelter, but I would like to warn them that the poor of this country will one day line them up against the wall and thoroughly deal with them. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member Hangana, please take your seat. [Laughter.] Members, the following member will be making her maiden speech. [Applause.]
Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Chairperson, it gives me great pleasure to present my maiden speech to the hon members of this House. I would like to begin my speech by quoting from Nikolai Ostrovsky. The quote runs something like this:
Man’s dearest possession is life. It is given to him but once, and he must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for wasted years and never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past.
The IFP welcomes the motion introduced by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party and we share the sentiments expressed in the motion. Sustainable development revolves around the theme of delivery and development. It is rarely about sustaining the needs of the present generation without compromising on the needs of the future generations. In essence, sustainable development has to be human centred and action orientated. The overarching view of sustainable development must inform our approach, but the rights of the most vulnerable must be protected. I heard the hon the Deputy Minister mention the plight of women and it seems as if she has already read my speech. The rights of the vulnerable must be protected.
Further, the debate centres on the urban and rural divide. It is well known that there is a sense of urgency for sustainable development in rural towns and cities. This really emanates from the ongoing consequences of systematic neglect and exploitation of rural areas. Rural areas were the most deprived, most excluded and brutally exploited areas. The productive capacity of rural areas systematically eroded under the prevailing political, economic and social policies of that time. This saw the industrial development of a select urban area as being the mainstay or hallmark of the South African economy. This inequitable distribution of resources resulted in the ongoing impoverishment of rural areas, causing high levels of unemployment, ill-health and environmental degradation.
Yet, the success of sustainable development lies in translating these rural areas into developed towns and cities with their own productive capacity. I cannot stress this enough. But this will only become a reality if we implement policies that correct the situation and begin to engage with rural people. It is therefore crucial that we grasp sustainable development not just as a technical or planning term, but as an interconnection, interdependence and interpenetration of development with other functions of Government and other departments. In short, it is really about responsible development that enables people to begin to experience a difference in their lives. The daunting question which arises is: How do we ensure sustainable development?
The question of housing delivery and the quality of housing opportunities must be such that the masses who are living under precarious conditions in slums, informal settlements and rural areas, begin to experience this delivery. But there needs to be a change not just physically, but in the social and economic circumstances. This has to occur. This also means that where development is unsustainable, the community will simply immerse itself in a state of underdevelopment.
Research shows that relative to other countries with the same gross domestic product, South Africa has the highest level of overcrowding per square foot of house space. South Africa has more unauthorised houses, fewer houses built of permanent materials and less housing investment as a percentage of gross domestic product. Housing is more than four walls and a roof.
Sustainable development also means that we look at development from a planning perspective. While it may be Government’s desire to provide adequate and sustainable housing, the problem also lies with planning and community consultation. I also feel that there is a dire need for some form of oversight mechanism, especially in terms of the quality control of the materials being used to build these houses. Central to any development process is the community and NGOs. A community which is able to mobilise collective power has social capital.
To promote the establishment, development and maintenance of socially and economically viable communities, there also needs to be safe and healthy communities. We have to ensure the elimination and prevention of slums and slum conditions. How do we do this? The proliferation and intensification of slums in and around towns and cities on the peripheries of urban areas, have reached a point where they can no longer be allowed to continue. These slums and slum conditions have become a breeding ground for all kinds of vices. More importantly, the slums themselves are, to all intents and purposes, not fit for human habitation.
So the removal of slums and informal settlements is a difficult and daunting process. Yet, questions begin to hover. How do we remove the slums? What do we do with the settlers? Where do we resettle them and on whose land? Does Government have a rapid-release land policy? Therefore, sustainable development must be measured. It must have a multiplier effect so that communities can begin to feel and sustain their productive bases. Development should not just become a quick-fix solution.
Forensic audits need to be conducted. Communities need to certify that subsidies are being used in a sustainable and nonexploitative manner. So there has to be a people’s or a bottom-up approach. More importantly, sustainable development has to be tailor-made to meet the existing features and characteristics of that particular community. For example, traditional leadership cannot be excluded from any community.
Sustainable development will not be complete without technology. The call for sustainable development is not simply a call for environmental protection, but a call for growth and transfer of technology. I believe that no sustainable development debate can be complete without any reference to women, these unofficial actors of development, especially women who are silenced, denied and reinterpreted. Sustainable development must be used as an empowerment tool for both communities and women. The lack of integration of the rural economy in the urban mainstream economy, turns rural areas into economic liabilities. This has to change. The neglect has to stop.
Therefore, projects and programmes, whether it be housing or the supply of water, have to be relevant and achievable. Most of all they have to add value. Our commitment today must not only be a strong commitment to work, but must be a commitment to work with communities, NGOs … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J DURAND: Chairperson, it is a great pleasure and honour for me to congratulate the new member on her lovely, well prepared and well presented speech. I think she has set new standards for maiden speeches.
There is no need for South African cities to be the unhealthy places that so many are. Cities contain many of the world’s most unhealthy living environments. More than a third of the urban population in Africa, Asia and Latin America live in housing of poor quality, with inadequate provisions for water, sanitation, drainage, garbage collection and health care. Their health is constantly under threat. In such circumstances, it is common for one child in three to die before the age of five and for virtually all infants and adults who survive to have disease burdens many times higher than they should.
Diarrhoea, TB and respiratory infections are among the causes of deaths worldwide. This is generally caused by overcrowding. Many accidental injuries occur when there are three or more persons living in each small room in shelters made of flammable materials. There is little chance of providing occupants, especially children, with protection from open fires or stoves.
Most cities can also include some of the world’s safest and healthiest neighbourhoods, like Cape Town. High densities allow for much lower costs in supplying each household with piped, treated water supplies and most forms of health, educational and emergency services. It is not so much the overall population density, as the quality of the housing that is the problem. Most squatter settlements have densities no higher than expensive central-city residential areas in Europe. Sanitation and drainage may be costly in cities, as complex systems are needed to cope with high densities and large population concentrations. But city households can generally afford to pay more, and are prepared to do so if they get a good service.
Cities may be considered ecologically unsustainable because of high consumption and waste levels, but well-planned and managed cities can combine high living standards with remarkably low levels of energy consumption, resource use and wastage. The concentration of people in production creates many more possibilities of collecting and recycling waste, and for walking, bicycling and a high-quality public transport system.
For many city life is one of excessive workloads and drudgery, yet cities remain centres of culture, including the visual and decorative arts, music, dance, theatre and literature. Most cities have a large reserve of young people on whose initiative and energy they could draw to improve conditions, yet most of these people find that their cities offer them little hope and little prospect of employment. If cities have such potential to provide healthy, stimulating and valued places to live and work in for all age groups, why do so few achieve this? Much of the explanation is the lack of good governance. Good governance in any city means encouragement and support from all levels of Government for a great range of investments of capital, expertise and time by individuals, households, communities, voluntary organisations and NGOs, as well as private enterprise.
In most cities in the South, the total value of investments made by people in their own homes and neighbourhoods exceeds many times the total value of capital investments by city and municipal authorities, yet governments and aid agencies usually ignore, or deem illegal, most such efforts. Most households that want their own home cannot afford to purchase one - or at least one that is legal. They cannot obtain housing loans, so the cost of the house purchase can be spread over a number of years, as they cannot meet the usually inappropriate conditions set by banks or housing finance institutions. If they turn to building their own homes, as most do, they have to occupy or purchase the sites illegally. They often have to build on dangerous sites on floodplains or on slopes, with frequent landslides or mudslides, as the cost of safer sites is too high. Even if they can qualify for a housing loan, most such loans are for finished houses, not incremental construction. Even when they have developed their own homes and neighbourhood into a viable residential area, governments usually refuse to provide these with roads, water supplies, drains and other essential infrastructure, because they are illegal.
What would cities have looked like today if governments had supported these individual and community efforts by ensuring that land and building materials, credit and technical advice were as cheap and readily available as possible, or if government-community partnerships had been formed at least to improve water supply, sanitation, drainage and health care?
The general pattern of the development of slums is almost always the same. They begin with the overcrowding of existing buildings and the addition of tenements built by conscienceless speculators to a considerable height on little land, without reference to light, air, sanitation and other standards of decent living and safety. The place of a single family in a reasonably comfortable house is taken by a number of families, and in the tenements people are packed in like chickens in a coop. Wave after wave of newcomers inhabit these rookeries. As soon as one generation achieves enough prosperity to get out, it moves on and another with lower standards and income takes its place.
By the time civic and social workers succeed in impressing upon the old- line politicians the enormity of this process, the city has degenerated. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The following member is also going to deliver his maiden speech. [Applause.] Mr D M DLALI: Chairperson, hon members, comrades, today I would like to remind the House and the country that the constitutional obligation for local government to create developmental municipal entities is in line with the principles of sustainable development. It is in line with Agenda 21, a United Nations plan for obligatory action to accelerate development, which came out of the Earth Summit in Rio in 1992. The plan includes a special mandate to local governments to establish local Agenda 21s. Our Constitution and subsequent White Papers prescribe that a municipality must create and sustain humane, equitable, viable human settlements.
The process of demarcation was put in place to restructure postapartheid cities and towns. To facilitate this kind of a mandate to be functional and provide equal opportunities for every citizen of the country, the newly established municipalities are expected to play a key role in the transformation of apartheid influenced spatial patterns that are dysfunctional, inefficient and costly. For example, the recent disasters … … zase Ntshona Koloni ziyayingqina into yokuba iindawo zabantu abamnyama azizange ziplaneke kakuhle. OomaGuguletu, KTC, Philippi, Khayelitsha, Crossroads, Lwandle, njalo njalo. [… of the Western Cape are a confirmation of the fact that black townships were not properly planned: Gugulethu, KTC, Philippi, Khayelitsha, Crossroads, Lwandle, etc, to mention but a few.]
Local government does not only have the responsibility to build houses, but has to bear the cost of poor spatial planning that results in disasters and loss of life. Poor planning becomes costly, even for the communities concerned.
Abantu bethu bakhelwa izindlu ezikude neendawo zokusebenza. [Our people are built houses that are very far from their places of employment.]
It is due to the demarcation process and the concept of wall-to-wall municipalities that, as a country, we are able to understand the settlement patterns of municipalities and the resource demands of our communities. Housing remains one of the Government’s priorities in South Africa. Providing a habitable environment for all our people is Government’s ultimate goal.
An environment where every citizen will not only have a shelter, but will have access to infrastructure and other basic services, in an equitable and sustainable manner, will restore the pride and dignity apartheid so brutally robbed the people of. This is of extreme urgency, but our Government inherited huge backlogs in infrastructure services in historically marginalised urban and rural areas.
This requires municipal expenditure which far exceeds the revenue currently available within the local government system. This in turn slows down the programme of integrated service delivery. The Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme, and the Urban Renewal Strategy that the President announced in this House at the beginning of this year are aimed at facilitating co-operative and integrated service provision that will ultimately result in sustainable, habitable environments. We are fortunate that our people understand that these delays are the result of apartheid planning, which had as its main objective the deliberate settlement of black people on the periphery of urban centres. The pace of change is not as fast as we would want it to be. Our careful planning is aimed at delivering sustainable local, economic and social development that will in the end reward the patience of our people.
President Mbeki said:
Certainly the dark clouds are lifting, giving way to our season of hope.
The President acknowledged that lifting the dark clouds is a national task that must be executed through a partnership between Government and civil society, and through co-operative governance. The Deputy Minister has just outlined the plans and programmes that seek to facilitate this partnership and intergovernmental relations for the benefit of service delivery, and the ultimate goal of a better life for all. The plans and programmes are aimed at developing both urban and rural areas, ie building sustainable cities and towns, and thriving rural areas.
The new legislative framework of local government, in particular the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, gives practical meaning to participatory democracy, a concept that has always been at the core of the policies of the ruling party. For us participation of communities is essential in the fight against underdevelopment. Agenda 21 of the Rio Summit in 1992 acknowledges this and pays particular attention the to role of indigenous peoples and women.
The Local Government: Municipal Systems Act institutionalises the participation of civil society in the affairs of municipalities in the process of integrated development planning, performance management, municipal budgeting and strategic decision-making with regard to the delivery of municipal services. The Act balances the right of communities to participate in municipal affairs by providing that the citizenry meet their responsibility of paying for such services.
Partnership between government, the people and the private sector is one way to guarantee sustainable service delivery and development. We would like to repeat our call to the private sector to assist in the endeavours of Government to uplift the poor. All of us, as individuals and social economic groupings, must assume responsibility to lift the most vulnerable and poor sections of our society out of the appalling conditions of squalor they find themselves in.
When we drive past an informal settlement and watch little black kids playing in stagnant water full of elements which cause diseases, we thank God for the windows in our cars that protect us from the hurtfulness of these realities. Instead of turning our heads or lowering our gaze shamefully, let us commit ourselves - at least, from this day onwards - not only to eradicating the current housing backlog, but also to never allowing the occurrence of policies that reduces our once-proud African communities to living in pigsties. We admit that this is an element of the apartheid era, but it is a reality of our life today.
I invite all members of this House and all South Africans out there to join the ANC’s drive for the achievement of this noble goal. If we follow this path of unity in action for change we are bound to win the fight against poverty and underdevelopment. We know that the informal settlements such as KTC, Philippi and many others will not go away overnight. But we are determined that the notion of two nations will come to an end one day. All citizens will begin to have the dignity so many gave their lives for. We know that the new system of local government will encourage all of us to unite in our action to build cities and rural towns we can be proud of. [Applause.]
Mr D G MKONO: Mr Chairperson and hon members, we must acknowledge the historical background of South African slums. It has its roots firmly in the apartheid policies of locking the African people into so-called homelands and townships. The effects of the Group Areas Act can still be seen on the map of any town or city in South Africa. We must also not forget that the phenomenon of urbanisation is still active throughout South Africa.
The trend worldwide has been for urbanisation to create ghost towns in rural areas as the young and economically active section of the population moves to urban areas, leading to the stagnation of such rural areas. Services and infrastructure collapse and poverty becomes commonplace. At the same time slums develop around urban areas as the rural multitudes swell cities beyond their capacities. The strain on infrastructure and services is difficult to manage, but people continue to flock to cities in the hope of finding employment, despite the fact that rural people often lack the employment and life skills to cope with urban life.
There is a cultural aspect to this process. Rural people jettison their roots but remain on the outside of urban life. This cultural dislocation, coupled with deprivation, poverty, unemployment and inhumane living conditions, provides a fertile breeding ground for crime and exploitation in these slums. It becomes a vicious cycle, trapping inexperienced and often naive people from rural areas.
To close this historical gap between African and so-called white suburbs,
we must act in a concerted fashion. It is vital that we build people
quality houses, and not those referred to asvezinyawo ormatchboxes’’.
We must also address the lack of access to capital which prevents the
African people from acquiring decent houses, or the ridiculous situation
where RDP houses are worthless and cannot be used as collateral.
Discrimination is still perpetrated against rural areas in the way Government treats them. Farmers and their workers face violent and deadly criminals and the former homelands still feel like the Cinderellas of the Government. The issue of recognising the role and function of traditional leadership has been fumbled by this Government. We must urgently address the problem of state-owned land with traditional leaders. We recognise that Government has finally adopted an Integrated Rural Development Programme and an Urban Renewal Strategy. It is, we hope, a welcome departure from the Government’s piecemeal and ad hoc approach to sustainable development in cities and rural towns. We must, however, caution Government to involve all stakeholders and strive for true integration of line functions or else these strategies will not be worth the paper they are written on. [Applause.]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Mr Chairperson and hon Deputy Minister, we never thought that one day certain parts of great cities like Johannesburg could be associated with the tag of slum city, as is currently the case.
A recent article that appeared in the media rated our cities as follows:
Johannesburg was once regarded as the industrial and commercial powerhouse of Africa, where people from all over the world flock to make their fortunes. Today the city of gold has lost its shine. Affluent citizens have left the innercity, a mess.
This, to a certain extent, points to the direction that the Government’s development policy should be taking in correcting the existing situation and restoring the old glory of our cities, making them safe, clean, habitable, investor-friendly and world-class cities.
There are key issues that the Government should, as a matter of priority, address to reverse the total decay of our cities. These issues pertain to urbanisation management, land distribution, housing delivery, unemployment, managing the influx of illegal immigrants and refugees, and creating an investor-friendly environment to halt the capital flight, by attracting business back to our cities and rural towns.
The other issues pertain to the introduction of crime prevention strategies, the maintenance of our cities and towns’ infrastructure the implementation of municipal by-laws to regulate health and trading conditions of businesses, and the facilitation of the sustainable development of our cities. There is an urgent need for the Government to embark on a partnership with the private sector and civil society to rebuild our cities and towns. [Time expired.]
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, the basis of housing policy is land policy, for no houses can be built in the air. Urbanisation, which is closely related to job-seeking, has seen millions of Africans moving from rural to urban areas and, therefore, creating a shocking housing problem. Slums or informal settlements are the result of hundreds of years of dispossessing Africans of their land and subjecting them to cruel oppression; 90% to 100% of people who are living in slums are Africans.
This is not surprising at all. Talk of racism - this is the worst form of racism. To subject man, wife and children to this cruel oppression is inexcusable and totally unacceptable. Every family should be given a plot or assisted to acquire it over a long period. All rural villages are built on this principle.
Every family should be assisted to get employment. It destroys the dignity of a person not to be employed. To be idle and helpless for a whole day is the best way of destroying the soul of a person. This dehumanisation is at the heart of all our socioeconomic problems.
It is important to note that the order of things is not houses first. No, it is land or plot first, then employment and then people can built their own dwellings.
The blacks or Africans, although poor, command extraordinary buying power. Their meagre earnings are spent in white areas with no return in terms of employment, services and facilities. When Africans wake up to this reality, there will be a real industrial revolution in this country.
Black areas like Soweto, Mdantsane and Khayelitsha should have their own banks, shopping malls, roads, sports facilities, schools and hospitals of acceptable quality. The money for bringing about this development is in their pockets, it is their buying power and a key to their liberation.
May I use this moment to congratulate the new Deputy Minister for Provincial and Local Government. Halala Botha wa rena! E sego Botha wola! [Legofsi.] [Long live our Botha! And not that Botha! [Applause.]]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Mr Chairperson, Deputy Minister, may I, at this point, take this opportunity to congratulate hon Dr U Roopnarain and hon D M Dlali on their maiden speeches. [Applause.]
The MF notes the continuous need for development, especially towards sustainable development of cities and towns. Yet the debate today focuses on sustainable development towards cities and rural towns without slums.
The MF notes that most areas throughout the Republic have residences that are so-called slums. Poverty is a killer to a nation, to a people. If affluence was as common as poverty maybe slums would be rarely found. But in South Africa slums are found almost everywhere, the root cause being poverty. The MF always supports advancement, but the MF also concerns itself about the man in the street.
If a plan can be devised to house and assist those residing in these slums, the MF would roll up its sleeves and offer both hands. Why do people have to live in these conditions? Would one just choose to live in such conditions? No! The people forced to live in these conditions are victims of apartheid, poverty and circumstances. It is up to us to do something; those that are able to correct these injustices and inhumane conditions that these people are forced to live in. These are people like you and me, children like yours and mine, mothers like ours and yours, fathers like ours and yours.
The MF, certainly, supports the sustainable development of cities and rural towns without slums, provided that this advancement means the advancement of persons residing in the so-called slums, incorporating these into the development programme, and doing our duty. [Interjections.] The MF supports the sustainable development of cities and rural towns as long as it accommodates housing and incorporates people forced to live in slums. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Chairperson, Comrade Deputy Minister, comrades and hon members, I, too, would like to congratulate Dr U Roopnarain on her maiden speech and Comrade Dlali on his maiden speech as well. [Applause.]
As we entered the new millennium, we also entered the urban millennium, as nearly half of the world’s people now live in cities. It is, therefore, appropriate that the theme for World Habitat Day on Monday, 1 October, should be ``Cities without Slums’’ a day on which we must all dedicate ourselves to the task of ensuring that, one day, we will live in a world without slums and informal settlements.
The cities of the world present a showcase of stark contrasts. We see homeless people living in cardboard boxes next to skyscrapers occupied by corporations whose budgets sometimes exceed those of many countries. These are cities with pockets of wealth at the centre and vast enclaves of poverty on the periphery.
Cities consist of invisible divides as residents of more affluent areas may never come into contact with poorer sections of cities or those residents who live there. It is a case of those who have, not caring about those who do not have.
In many cities of the world, the rich wall themselves in using hi tech security while for the poor boundaries may be demarcated by a freeway, railway line or an open space. The poor areas of cities often lack adequate transport, health care, educational facilities and basic services and are often havens of crime, drug and alcohol abuse.
More than half the population of Africa and Asia will live in urban areas by the year 2020. The existence of slums or informal settlements is a worldwide problem, not just a South African problem. One of the main reasons people move to cities from rural areas is to seek employment. Inner city areas deteriorate into slums when landowners allow their buildings to fall into a state of disrepair and when overcrowding is allowed to take place.
Informal settlements arise due to rapid population increases in urban areas, a lack of housing to accommodate the poor and a lack of access to land. Other contributing factors include low or no economic growth, a skewed distribution of wealth, natural disasters, regional wars and the general attraction of cities.
Generally, informal settlements are located in the peripheral areas of cities. This is often due to the high cost of well-located land and resistance from medium to high-income earners. Here in our own country, the apartheid policies of the past have played a critical role in promoting informal settlements. Little or no attention was paid to improving the economic sustainability of rural areas.
Informal settlements are characterised by various levels of distress, ranging from abject poverty to overcrowding. Generally, informal settlements have no shopping centres, no community or recreational facilities, a lack of open spaces and parks, a lack of essential infrastructure like roads, electricity, street lighting and waste disposal sites and they often become hazardous to their residents.
The informal settlements we see, today, here in our country, South Africa, are a practical and visible result of the policies of the past. It is difficult to understand how those people - and I am talking about the people who are sitting over there - can say that we should forget about the past. The question is: How can we forget about the past when every day we need to grapple with and find solutions to the enormous challenges that the past has created? [Applause.]
The Second UN Conference on Human Settlements, Habitat II, was held in Istanbul in 1996. At this conference, an agenda was developed for the sustainable development of human settlements which was called the ``Habitat Agenda’’. The third conference was held in New York, at the UN in June this year, at which governments resolved to promote the upgrading of slums and informal settlements within their countries. South Africa has participated at both of these conferences and has committed itself to the Habitat Agenda.
In looking at our own situation, the ANC-led Government has implemented programmes aimed at the upgrading of informal settlements and slums in urban areas. These include informal settlement upgrading, inner-city regeneration and the renewal of older established areas. The housing subsidy programme has delivered more than 1,2 million houses, providing land and security of tenure.
We are often able to witness the excitement when a family is able to move from a structure made of wood, iron, plastic and cardboard into a structure which is solid and secure; a structure which has running water, a flushing toilet and electricity. [Applause.] This is the ANC-led Government at work
- delivering on its commitments. With security of tenure in place, people will begin investing in their own homes. This has been a trend around the world.
There are, however, individuals who see the housing subsidy programme as a means of making money by selling the home which has been given to them free of charge by Government. In many instances, they then move back into informal settlements. In this very House the Housing Amendment Bill was passed, which will address the sale of houses.
Many informal settlement have been transformed. In particular, I want to mention Diepsloot, which is near the area where I live. Homes have been built, a clinic has been built, schools have been built. Thousands of people in Diepsloot now have access to electricity, running water and flushing toilets, and work continues to transform this area. Another example of the ANC-led Government at work - delivering on its commitments. [Applause.]
Millions of people around our country will say that their lives have been changed. Despite the enormous achievements made by the ANC-led Government, we admit that we still need to do more. And we will do more! The critical challenge when embarking on upgrading informal settlement in all areas, urban and rural, is to ensure the sustainability of the developments which take place. Aside from housing, we need to ensure that there is adequate access to transport infrastructure, that there are clinics, schools, adequate bulk infrastructure, police stations, areas set aside for shopping centres and business sites.
Sustainable job creation is crucial to ensuring that developments which take place remain sustainable. And hon members should listen to what I am going to say. Tourism, agriculture and the development of small businesses can play a significant role. At community level there is a need for all sectors of society to get involved and assist in helping community members become self-sufficient and assist community members in setting up businesses which will be successful.
We must not take the attitude that it is Government’s responsibility alone. We should rather be saying that we all live in this country and that it is up to all of us to ensure that we make our country a country of economically sustainable communities. As South Africans - including those hon members over there - we must rise to the challenges and answer the call of President Mbeki when he called for unity in action. We must all play our part.
In his state of the nation address in February this year, President Mbeki announced the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Urban Renewal Strategy. The launching of these programmes in the various urban and rural nodal points will play an important role in addressing both informal settlements and slum areas in our cities and rural towns. Of particular note is that in countries where sustainable rural development has taken place there are clear indications that those who had moved to urban areas often return to their rural homes.
At the Millennium Summit held in September 2000, world leaders pledged to achieve, by the year 2020, a significant improvement in the lives of at least 100 million slum dwellers. This is a pledge, not just for the leaders of the world. It is also for the people of the world. It is a pledge for all the peoples of South Africa to unite and improve the lives of our people who live in informal settlements. In order to achieve this, we must start now.
We have two choices as people of this land. We can throw our hands up in despair and give up, or we can unite as one nation and together make a difference where we live; together create a better life for all the people of our land. For me and my colleagues on this side of the House, this is the only choice that there is.
I urge all South Africans, including those members, to work with the ANC- led Government and help make a difference by creating a South Africa without slums and informal settlements for our future generations. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Mr Chairperson, I really also would like to thank everybody who participated in this debate. I think it was quite good. But the people who have made it even better are the two new members that have spoken here - Dr Roopnarain and Mr Dlali. They actually set such a high standard that I hope we are all going to keep that up. As Dr Roopnarain said, there can be no sustainable development without the involvement and participation of women. Where is she? I really want to agree with her fully. [Applause.]
Hon Mr Moorcroft is quite right. The process of urbanisation is unstoppable, and we do need adequate resources to address housing and all other things that I mentioned earlier. As the hon Mr Dlali said, we have a problem in the Western Cape in particular. Let me mention that one, where there were people who were affected by the floods and we were walking around trying to identify land. I know the Western Cape Government and the Cape Town Metro have got land which we would like to use to accommodate the people that were affected by the floods. But I do not know why it has taken so long.
Can I tell hon members something? This is not a new problem. This problem has been around for more than 10 years. I have been wondering why previous governments before 1994 did not address. Perhaps now that we are sitting here in Parliament, we can move a little bit. I hope the hon Mr Durand has taken that into consideration. Perhaps we can move a little bit faster, get the land and have those people relocated and placed in areas closer to town and their workplaces, if we heard what the speakers were saying today. According to him, that situation is a manifestation of a lack of good governance. Maybe there was a lack of good governance before 1994. So, let us work together.
I am surprised that my bosom friend, the hon Mr Ditshetelo, seems not to understand why Johannesburg is in the state that it is in today. I do not know whether he has been sleeping through the revolution. But if he listened to what people were saying, that was as a result of those apartheid policies … [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: Mangope’s policies, too!
The DEPUTY MINISTER: They said it all!
I also want to thank hon members Mr Schneeman and Miss Rajbally for again reminding us and clarifying the issues that we still have to grapple with. As the hon Mr Schneeman said, if all of us were to play our part, step by step … [Interjections.]
Mr C M MORKEL: Mr Chairperson, is the hon member prepared to take a question, which is related to the Western Cape? [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Deputy Minister, are you prepared to take a question? The DEPUTY MINISTER: Mr Chairperson, if it is about solving the problems in Khayelitsha, KTC, finding and allocating the land, and if he could tell me where the land is where we can accommodate those people, I will take the question after I have addressed the House.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! She will take a question after she has addressed the House. Continue, hon Minister. [Interjections.] Order!
The DEPUTY MINISTER: After my appointment as Deputy Minister I realised that there was a huge task ahead of us, and I would like to appeal to every member of Parliament across the political spectrum, to actually seriously look at how we can work together to address the problems of poverty; to address the very problems that Mr Moorcroft refers to as slums. When he used that word I cringed. I got so worried, because he probably does not understand why people are still living in informal settlements. [Interjections.] So please, can … [Interjections.] What is my motivation? [Interjections.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Deputy Minister continue, do not be side-tracked.
The DEPUTY MINISTER: Chairperson, I understand that the topic says slums, but that originates from the United Nations. But for him to use the word … [Interjections.] I did not, I said ``slums’’ and after that I said it is a word that I would never use. He was not listening, of course. [Interjections.] Oh! Please, it is like he has never lived in South Africa, he comes from somewhere else, and … [Interjections.] So they say. It is like he is a tourist. He is not a South African; he does not understand the conditions in South Africa and does not know why people are living in informal settlements. [Interjections.] I am glad that some of the people have tried to explain and I am very happy that he has been listening so attentively. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! [Interjections.] Mr Morkel, I will keep quiet until you keep quiet. I am happy to keep you here until 8 o’clock. I have no problem with that! [Interjections.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:22. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 26 September 2001 in terms
of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section
75 Bill:
(i) Land Affairs General Amendment Bill [B 71 - 2001]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(2) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Labour in
the National Assembly on 27 September 2001 and referred to the
Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint
Rule 160:
(i) Labour Relations Amendment Bill [B 77 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
22642 of 31 August 2001.]
The Bill has also been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Labour of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
(3) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Justice
and Constitutional Development in the National Assembly on 27
September 2001 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
(i) Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second
Amendment Bill [B 78 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 74)
[Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 22460 of 13 July 2001.]
The Bill has also been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
(4) The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
submitted the Wetsontwerp op Onderskepping en Meeluistering [W 50
- 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the
Chairperson on 27 September 2001. This is the official translation
of the Interception and Monitoring Bill [B 50 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National Assembly
by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development on 28
August 2001.
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Foreign Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General contained in
the following papers is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts:
Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Foreign
Affairs for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements of Vote 11 - Department of Foreign
Affairs for 2000-2001 [RP 139-2001].
(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Enterprises and to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts:
Letter from the Minister of Public Enterprises in terms of section
65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of
1999) setting out the reasons why Transnet Limited could not table
its Annual Report and Financial Statements for 2000-2001 in time.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Trade and Industry:
Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Scientific and
Industrial Research for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 147-2001].
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:
Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Justice and
Constitutional Development for 2000-2001, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 18 - Justice and
Constitutional Development for 2000-2001 [RP 158-2001].
- The Minister of Sport and Recreation:
Report and Financial Statements of Sport and Recreation South Africa
for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements of Vote 29 - Sport and Recreation South Africa for
2000-2001.