WEDNESDAY, 14 NOVEMBER 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

 REFERRAL OF UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS BILL TO PORTFOLIO
                              COMMITTEE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, notwithstanding Rule 290(1), the Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill [B 85 - 2001] - (National Assembly - sec 77), upon its introduction, be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Labour for consideration and report, the Committee to have the power to confer with the Portfolio Committee on Finance.

Agreed to.

             ALARMING INCIDENCE OF CHILD RAPE AND ABUSE

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, hon members, I must, from the onset, say that I have been moved by the manner in which South Africans, regardless of gender, have spoken out and expressed outrage at the reprehensible abuse of nine month old baby Tsepang, and other children. The resounding expression of revulsion by this nation is a good sign as it shows that we are united in saying that we shall not tolerate such barbaric behaviour.

There is clearly consensus that something is seriously wrong if grandfathers, fathers, brothers and uncles sexually molest their own flesh and blood. The rape of a nine month old baby defies description in any language, and, indeed, displays moral depravity of the highest order. There is also something seriously amiss when people forget the very philosophy that has been the anchor of our communities for decades, namely the principle that any child is my child, and when a child who goes out to play at a neighbour’s house is found murdered or raped.

As the Government we have done what we should. The laws to fight this scourge exist and are being implemented. As I said in this House last week during Question Time, this Government has also prioritised the rights of women and children, as can be seen from the existence of the office on the rights of the child, the office on the status of women and the office on the status of disabled persons. These programmes, located in the Presidency, under the Minister in the Presidency, are succeeding in their aims of actively promoting the rights of women, children and people with disabilities, as the most vulnerable sectors in our communities.

It is because of the recognition of the importance of these sectors, that they are located in the Presidency and that there is a Minister dedicated to this crucial responsibility and ensuring that all Government programmes are aligned such that they actively promote the advancement and protection of the rights of these sectors. However, the Government alone cannot eradicate this scourge which resides within our communities. Each and every one of us has a role to play.

As we all know, the apartheid history of this country left behind a legacy of a serious breakdown in the moral infrastructure of our society. Apartheid brutalised everyone: its perpetrators, its victims as well as its beneficiaries, through the migrant labour and homeland systems. Apartheid sowed the seeds for the breakdown of the institution of the family. The breakdown in the moral fibre manifests itself in many ways and in all sectors of our society: rich and poor, urban and rural, black and white, young and old. The molestation of children and infants is a symptom of this degeneration.

Among the manifestations of moral degeneration are the following: the breakdown of parental control over children in some families; the condoning of deviant behaviour; a lack of respect for authority; the present breaking of the law; lack of respect for rules and regulations; crime and corruption; abuse of alcohol and drugs; abuse of women and children; lack of respect for the next person and, indeed, for human life. Clearly, we need to do something in our respective areas of influence to restore morality and rebuild a protective environment for the most vulnerable in our country.

In this vein, I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate a call I made to men in our country recently. Let us as men become positive role models who are symbols of love, empathy and caring and eradicate the stereotype that is developing that men are abusers of the most vulnerable in our society. Historically, men were known to protect their loved ones, who felt safe in their company. These days, some men are clearly becoming izinswelaboya'' [animals]. This must change. In line with the theme of HIV/Aids campaigns last year and this year, let me repeat thatMen Can Make a Difference’’. Let us make this difference by leading campaigns on eradicating violence of any form against women and children.

Most importantly, we need to continue addressing the question of the economic and social vulnerability of women and girls in our society, as this opens them up to abuse. Many women are economically dependent on men and this makes them reluctant to report abuses as this may lead to a loss of financial support. Therefore, we need to strengthen social support structures in our communities which make it possible for women in such situations to report abuse and leave abusive relationships, in order to protect their children and themselves. Women must have somewhere to run to.

I cannot finish my address without commending the hardworking officials in our criminal justice system who are diligently implementing laws aimed at ridding our society of sick individuals who molest women and children. Allow me also to congratulate communities, organisations and individuals who are already blowing the whistle on child abusers. The SA Democratic Teachers Union, for example, deserves mention for exposing teachers - some of them principals and deputy principals - who abuse children entrusted to their care during the day. The fact that child abusers are facing the law - and that we are today debating this matter, which has become public - shows that our communities are vigilant. That needs to be encouraged.

Once again, let me repeat my call for all of us to revive in our communities the principle of ``Any child is my child’’. If we hear children crying, children left alone and uncared for, or children being abused in any way, let us speak out and report the matter to the police. Let us recognise that children have rights which should be respected by all. No one will be allowed to get away with abusing children, regardless of their position in society.

It should become crystal clear to any potential child abuser or would-be rapist that this Government is determined to ensure that they face the full might of the law. We are not going to sit back and watch them destroy our future - our children. When Parliament rises on Friday we, as members of this House, should use the opportunity to spread the message of moral renewal in our constituencies and ensure that we remove hiding places for criminals who prey on children.

As part of the national moral regeneration movement that we are spearheading, I will be hosting a summit early next year which will include representatives of various sectors such as political representatives, religious groups, community leaders, the church, women, the youth, the disabled, business, labour and traditional healers. This great imbizo will enable us, as South Africans, to take stock of the moral barometer of our country and identify the critical factors that are affecting the moral health of this nation. Its objective is to establish a broad national coalition across all sectors of society, and it will chart the way forward for a mass-based moral regeneration campaign which will ensure that eventually the lines between right and wrong no longer become blurred. If we work together, we can defeat the monster and make our homes and streets safe for our children. [Applause.]

Ms L M T XINGWANA: Madam Speaker, this is a great opportunity for me to speak on the alarming incidents of child rape and abuse throughout our country.

A nine-month-old baby was raped and sodomised by six men who stand accused in Upington today. The baby has undergone extensive surgery and, according to doctors, she still has to undergo three more operations. She will have to carry a colostomy bag for the rest of her life. Her 16-year old mother was also a victim of statutory rape when she fell pregnant at the age of 14 years, and her great grandmother was a victim of rape in the same house. The six men accused of raping the baby are in custody and will be appearing in court on 23 November 2001.

A 14-month-old baby from Tweeling in the Free State was raped by her two uncles. She also had to undergo surgery and is now recuperating at her home. The two uncles are in custody. A three-year old girl was brutally raped by her father in Tshirolwe village in the Northern Province. She died on 29 October 2001. The father was arrested and will appear in court on 28 December 2001. A four-year old girl - also from the Northern Province - was allegedly raped by her grandmother’s boyfriend. The man is also in custody and will soon be appearing in court.

More reports of sexual assaults in Rouxville, a small rural town in the Free State, have once again shocked the country in the past week. A 13-year old schoolgirl from IQ School in Rouxville was raped by a 37-year old truck driver at gunpoint. She was on her way, early in the morning, to school with a young boy of 13 years, who was able to run away and called the police. When the police found him in the forest with the little girl, he was busy raping her. He fired three shots at the police, but unfortunately for him, they were able to arrest him and he is now in custody.

Four young 14-year-old girls were given a lift by two white men. They were coming from school - the Uitkoms Community school in Rouxville. The two white men drove them to a sportsground nearby and bought them liquor. When they thought that they were drunk, they raped them and thereafter offered them R50 or R20 to buy their silence. The girls went home and reported the case to the police. The two men are now in custody and will be appearing in court soon.

Another 10 year old girl, also from Rouxville, was raped by a 14-year-old boy living next door. The boy is still a minor and has been given R300 bail. He has been released into the care of his parent. In Bloemfontein, at the Joe Slovo informal settlement, an eight-year-old girl was raped by a white man. She was sent by her grandmother to go and buy something at his shop. The man will be appearing in court on 26 November 2001. More cases have been reported in the North West and the Eastern Cape, where 20 girls were raped and impregnated by their teacher. [Interjections.] The list is long and endless. It involves both black and white rapists. Rapists do not know any colour. [Interjections.]

Le nto yenze kwacaca mhlophe ukuba sijongene nesihelegu esigqibe ilizwe lonke. [This has made it clear that we are faced with a tragic situation which is world-wide.]

The reports, however, are encouraging, because people are breaking the culture of silence. People have confidence in this Government. Our Government is acting with speed and has caught the perpetrators of these horrible atrocities.

We also want to urge the SABC not to promote the abuse of women through the violent and pornographic films they shown to our children. [Applause.] These reduce our women to mere sex objects.

We also want to object to sexist advertising, also by the SABC and various other companies, where women are used to advertise liquor, such as in the Hansa Pilsner advertisement. And again women are portrayed there as sex objects.

We would like to warn all our leaders, especially the Leader of the Opposition, their silence has been deafening on this issue. [Interjections.] We want to make it very clear that this is not a racial issue, but a national issue. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

Ms L M T XINGWANA: We want to make it clear that because it is black children who are involved, it does not mean that the opposition should keep quiet.

We would like to call on all our traditional and religious leaders to take up this cause. We believe that many of them have already started, especially in Upington where they are in the forefront of mobilising our communities in support of the family of the nine-month-old baby. We want to encourage all our traditional leaders, all over the country, to take up this cause.

We also want to expose the lie and the myth that sleeping with a virgin or a little child will cure one of HIV/Aids. We believe that the heroes of HIV/Aids are those men and women who have accepted their situation and status with responsibility and made it a point that they strive to protect the nation, and not spread the virus. Those are the heroes of our struggle and our war on HIV/Aids.

We also want to indicate to women, as mothers, that this also has something to do with how we bring up our children. Drugs and alcohol are implicated in these atrocities. We are the ones that must stand up and expose our next-door neighbours who are involved in illegal shebeens and also sell drugs; even to little children. We are the ones that must stand up and ensure that we bring up our children, both boys and girls, and make sure that we inculcate in them respect and love for one another. [Applause.] I think it is especially important that we teach our boys to respect their sisters, and from there to respect girls, women as well as human life.

We also want to appeal to HIV/Aids activists to go out and make sure that our people are informed and educated about HIV/Aids. We all know that there is no cure for HIV/Aids at this point in time. Therefore, we need to go out and inform our people about this. We also want to ask our traditional healers to go out and educate the public about the fact that there is no cure for HIV/Aids and that abusing women and raping children is not going to cure anybody.

We commend Kimberley Hospital and its doctors who went out to expose this lie. We also commend the traditional healer from Kimberley, Mashia, who also stated publicly that there is no cure for HIV/Aids and that sleeping with virgins and little children will not help to cure this disease.

I would like, therefore, to add to what the hon the Deputy President has said, that this is an important issue facing the nation. We commend the Deputy President for organising a summit or imbizo for early next year to address this issue. We also urge the leaders of the opposition parties to support this cause and to support the nation. We would like to reiterate the fact that this debate must be supported by all of us. It must be firmly supported, particularly in the light of the need for abhorrent acts of child rape and abuse to be brought forth for serious discussion and for us to make sure that the perpetrators are apprehended.

We want to make sure that no bail is given to these alleged rapists. We do not understand how grandfathers, especially a sixty-six year old grandfather, can be a party to these atrocities. We, therefore, want to call on the nation as a whole, that is mothers, fathers and parents, to go out and say: Enough is enough. Let us work together for the good of South Africa and for the future of our children. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I want to remind you that the issue that we are debating is not one about black or white. [Applause.] No community in South Africa is immune. No child is immune from what is going on. [Interjections.] Equally, the perpetrators are also black and white. So please let us remember this. We are trying to address this not as the Government or the opposition or party this or party that. We are trying to come together as a nation to expose a problem and collectively address it. So, I appeal to you to think of the children we are talking about. [Applause.]

Adv P S SWART: Madam Speaker, this is not a political issue. I wish to thank the hon the Deputy President for his message in particular. I requested this debate for one purpose only. [Interjections.] Yes, hon member, I requested this debate to enable Parliament, as a unit that is constituted by our political leaders and Cabinet in particular, to face South Africa, look our nation in the eye and acknowledge our obligation to do whatever it will take to end this ongoing destruction of the lives of our children. Apart from murder, the rape of an innocent child is the most hellish manifestation of a society that is rotten to the core. When we note with horror the rape of babies as young as nine months these deeds are often nothing less than extended death sentences to the victims.

I also have some personal obligations. I stand here as a man and on behalf of all decent men, today, I apologise to our mothers and children for these acts done by demons disguised as men. For no decent man would commit such atrocities. I could call them animals, but that would demean animals. The true yardstick for the moral values of a society is the way in which it treats its children. We fail miserably. A decent society cherishes and respects its children.

Ek staan ook hier as ‘n eggenoot en vader van twee dogters. Toe God in Sy wysheid my ‘n vrou en twee dogters geskenk het, het ek daarmee saam baie spesifieke verpligtings ontvang. Behalwe om hulle lief te hê, getrou te wees en te respekteer is daar ‘n besondere verpligting om hulle te alle tye met alles wat ek in my het te beskerm, en dit is wat my hartseer maak.

In ‘n pragtige land met pragtige mense behoort ons lewens gevul te wees met die vreugde van liefde en geluk, maar die teendeel is waar. Daagliks vrees ek vir die veiligheid van my dierbares. Wanneer ons toelaat dat nie alleen ons strate nie, maar dikwels ook ons huise, plekke van verskrikking vir ons kinders word, neem ons hulle kindwees weg, die grootste onreg wat volwassenes kan pleeg. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I also stand here as a husband and father of two daughters. When God in His wisdom granted me a wife and two children, I received very specific obligations along with them. Apart from loving them, being faithful to and respecting them, there is a particular obligation at all times to protect them with all I have within me, and this is what makes me so sad. In a beautiful country with beautiful people our lives ought to be filled with the joy of love and happiness, but the opposite is true. I fear daily for the safety of my loved ones. When we allow not only our streets, but often also our homes, to become places of terror for our children, we deprive them of their childhood, the biggest injustice adults can commit.]

However, being a parliamentarian and the National Assembly being the forum for today’s debate, my particular obligation is as such. Although it may be true that our first line of both offence and defence in this fight are the Minister of Safety and Security and the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development it would also be a foolish assumption. These horrific crimes go far beyond those particular line functions and touch all aspects of society. Today I cannot underline enough the necessity for an integrated approach to successfully wage this war against these demon rapists.

Ons kan die oortreders vang, en ek bring hulde aan ons toegewyde polisie; ons kan hulle voor ons howe bring en lewenslange vonnisse oplê, wat ons howe in die meeste gevalle doen en waarvoor ek dankbaar is, maar permanente sukses sal afhang van die herstel van die morele basis van ons samelewing. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We can apprehend the offenders, and I pay tribute to our dedicated police; we can bring them before our courts and hand down life sentences, which our courts do in most cases and for which I am grateful, but lasting success will depend on our restoring the moral fibre of our society.]

To repair this, we need the overall assistance of NGOs, welfare organisations and churches. Frankly, when I look at the statistics, it is difficult to accept the amounts of money from the proceeds of the lotto going to sports organisations which, in a very real way, disempower these role-players.

Wanneer ek van ‘n geïntegreerde aanslag praat, verwys ek nie alleen na onderwys waar ons kinders op hulle regte gewys word nie, maar ook die opvoeding van die gemeenskap in geheel - ook volwassenes - ten opsigte van die regte van kinders en ons verantwoordelikheid om hulle te respekteer en te beskerm. My kollega die agb lid Cupido sal later in die debat aandag gee aan die maatskaplike verantwoordelikhede in ons gemeenskap.

Wanneer ek na justisie verwys, is daar ook ‘n ander verantwoordelikheid. Dit is die manier waarop hierdie jong slagoffers gehanteer word wanneer hulle sake voorkom. Die DA is geboekstaaf dat ons reeds jare lank pleit vir die daarstelling van voldoende kinderhowe asook geriewe om slagoffers te beskerm wanneer getuienis gelewer word. My kollega die agb lid Waters sal daarna verwys. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[When I speak of an integrated onslaught, I do not only refer to education, where our children are informed of their rights, but also to the education the community as a whole - adults included - regarding childrens’ rights and our responsibility to respect and protect them. Later on in the debate my colleague the hon member Cupido will deal with the social responsibilities in our community.

When I refer to justice, there is another responsibility as well. It is the way in which these young victims are treated when their cases come up for trial. The DA is on record as having advocated for years the establishment of sufficient children’s courts, as well as facilities to protect victims when evidence is being given. My colleague the hon member Waters will be referring to this.]

During the year 2000, 21 438 cases of rape and attempted rape against children were reported. Only 1 797 or 8,38% of these resulted in convictions. Surely, this must indicate something very wrong within the system. It is my contention that the problem is the way in which these innocent victims, who often do not understand what happened to them, are handled by the police and justice department during the investigations and court cases. I am not criticising.

While the first line of action lies in particular with our Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units, it is indeed disturbing that we only have 30 Child Protection Units in the whole country, with only 368 police officers deployed out of a complement of 504. When we note the occurrence of rapes of minor children, with more than 31 000 cases reported in the past 18 months, this does not make sense.

Today, I call on the Minister of Safety and Security to place at least one dedicated police officer at each and every police station to see to the protection of our children. Such a person should be well versed not only in police skills but also in specialised training to cover an understanding of the development and maturity of the child; a child’s response to trauma; communication with a child, including interviewing and listening skills; ability to offer expert assistance to a traumatised child and, at least, some medical knowledge.

These skills should also be available at our courts. Whilst restoring the moral fabric of our society, which our hon Deputy President called for, the only interim deterrent to perpetrators of these crimes will be the prescribed life sentence. With the above in place we will see more convictions.

Our children are the building blocks of the future of this country. Let us treat them with compassion, and understand our need to respect and protect them at all times, and ensure them a happy and secure childhood.

Kom ons, as Parlement oor politieke grense heen, neem hande met mekaar en die samelewing daar buite. Die samelewing daar buite is ‘n onmisbare deelnemer in die herstel van hierdie probleem in ons gemeenskap. Kom ons bou ‘n vreedsame en kommervrye gemeenskap in ‘n land wat mooi is en waar ons gelukkig kan wees, maar kom ons as Parlement wys ook met dade en nie alleen met woorde nie, dat hierdie tipe oortredings nie in hierdie mooi land van ons geduld sal word nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [Let us, as Parliament across political barriers, join hands with each other and with society out there. Society out there is an essential participant in the correction of this problem in our community. Let us build a peaceful and carefree community in a country that is beautiful and where we can be happy, but let us as Parliament show by way of deeds, and not only with words, that this type of offence will not be tolerated in this beautiful country of ours. [Applause.]]

Mnu V B NDLOVU: Somlomo, mhlonishwa Sekela-Mongameli, bahlonishwa oNgqongqoshe, malungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, kukhona abantu abagula ngamakhanda, abacabanga ukuthi ukudlwengula izingane kungukuvimbela iNgculazi noma ukungenwa yisifo seNgculazi.

Ngithi kumhlonishwa uSekela-Mongameli singakhuluma size sifike noma kuphi kodwa uma umuntu ehlanya, usuke ehlanya nje, angefaniswe nomunye umuntu. Masizame ukukhuluma nalaba abasacabanga ukukwenza lokho ukuze bazi ukuthi uma bekwenza lokho, kuyinto engabuyiseli futhi akwakhi, kube kungeke kumsize lowo muntu oguliswa yileso sifo. Ngeke abe ngcono, kunalokho uyogula aze afe kunokuthi abe ngcono.

Okwesibili, indaba enkulu manje ukuthi - angazi noma yingoba sibhidlikelwa yimizi yethu yini emakhaya - kuyabonakala ukuthi abanye abazali kithina abakwazi ukuzibheka kahle izingane zabo. Baye baze bahambe nazo baye lapho bephuza khona, badle amanzi amponjwana nazo. Ngithi-ke mina uma singakakukhulumi lokho njengabantu izinto ngeke zihambe kahle. Umuntu nomuntu ozele ingane akayiphathe njengoba naye ayephethwe unina. Kuzoba ngcono uma abazali bekwazi lokho. Kodwa, uma abazali bezokhohlwa ukuthi lezi zingane abazizele ngezabo, baphilise okwenyoka yona ezala maqedane ife, kuyingozi lokho ngoba kusho ukuthi lezi zingane ezikhulayo nezizalwayo namhlanje ngeke zibe nalo ikusasa. Ngakho-ke, uma singenabo abazali, masakhe abazali ukuze thina esilapha eNdlini sihole abantu abaphilileyo, hhayi abagula emakhanda futhi abangakwazi ukuzala izingane bazifukamele.

Kukhulunywa ngamadoda lapha, kuthiwa yiwo adlwengula izingane. Mina ngithi cha, hhayi, ngiyaphika impela. Ngiyindoda ngempela mina kodwa angizange ngidlwengule noyedwa umuntu. Ngakho makungashiwo ukuthi amadoda lawo. [Ihlombe.] Amalungu akhona lapha ayiNdlu ehloniphekile, kanti kukhona namadoda ahloniphekile ngaphandle. Ngakho-ke ukusetshenziswa kwaleli gama kuthiwa ``la madoda’’ kuze kuthiwe ngamadoda wonke abukeka engemahle emhlabeni ngoba ayadlwengula, kuyigama elibi lelo. Akushiwo ukuthi yilezi zigebengu, imigulukudu nezigelekeqe okuyizona ezenza lokho ukuze kubhekwane nazo. Kufuneka kuyekwe ukuthi kukhonjwe noma ubani. Umhlonishwa uSekela- Mongameli ngeke akuvuma nje ukuthi kuthiwe, njengedoda, naye-ke uyabandakanywa nalabo. Mina-ke, njengendoda, cha angikuvumi impela lokho. Ngakho mina ngithi laba bantu abayeke ukuthi ngamadoda. Abathi yilezi zigebengu, imigodoyi, ukuze amaphoyisa abhekane nezigebengu nemigodoyi, angavimbeli wonke amadoda nanjengathi nje, athembekile.

Uma ngikhuluma ngendoda, ngikhuluma ngendoda ezaziyo ukuthi iyindoda. Ngithi kumhlonishwa uSekela-Mongameli mina-ke uma ngikhuluma ngendoda ngiyehlukanisa. Kukhona abantu besilisa bese kuba khona amadoda. Lapha-ke ngikhuluma ngamadoda, amadoda aziyo ukuthi ekhaya kuyadliwa, njengoba kade esho nje umhlonishwa uSekela-Mongameli ethi kufukanyelwa izingane futhi kufukanyelwe wonke umuzi ekhaya. Babhekelwa bonke abantu ukuthi baphephile. Uma kukhona umnumzane ekhaya, kukhona indoda, kufanele kwaziwe ukuthi singethintwe muntu ngoba kukhona umnumzane, kukhona indoda.

Kodwa uma sikhuluma ngalaba bantu besilisa-ke, yibo-ke laba esikhuluma ngabo namhlanje. Bangabantu abangazi lutho olunye lokufukamela umndeni nezingane futhi bangabantu abazi ukuthi izingane azilutho. Bangaphezu kwegama elithi ``izilwane.’’ Angifuni mina babizwe ngezilwane ngoba ngabe sidlala ngazo izilwane. Izilwane zihlonipha kabi, azikwenzi lokhu esikhuluma ngakho. Ngakho-ke akufuneki ukuthi sifanise abantu abagangayo, imigulukudu nezigelekeqe, siyifanise nezilwane ngoba izilwane zingcono kakhulu. Uma zizihlalele laphaya ehlathini, zizihlalela kahle nje kungabikho lutho, ngaphandle-ke uma umuntu esuka eyodlala ngazo-ke bese nazo zimdlala.

Mina ngiyahlupheka ngoba mhlawumbe laba bantu esikhuluma ngabo abakwazi ukushela. Ukushela umuntu kuyinto enhle kabi. Kuyinto enhle kabi nje ukuvuma komuntu athi: ngiyakuthanda sibanibani. [Uhleko.] Kodwa laba bantu esikhuluma ngabo lapha kusho ukuthi abakwazi lokho. Inkinga enkulu uma umuntu engakwazi ukuxoxa nomunye umuntu ongaphesheya kwakhe ngoba kusho ukuthi lowo muntu unenkinga yokuphila nabantu. Manje lowo muntu uyovalelwaphi-ke ngoba nomhlonishwa uSkosana uzothi amajele akhe agcwele?

Inkinga ekhona ukuthi sinabantu abangakwazi ukubhekana nabanye abantu, abangakwazi ukuxoxa kahle nabo. Yileyo nkinga esinayo lapha. Umuntu uma edlwengula ingane enezinyanga eziyisishiyagalombili usuke esho ukuthini ngempela? Kusho ukuthini ngempela lokho ngoba ayikwazi ukukhuluma, ayikwazi kwenza lutho? Uma-ke manje singeke sikwazi ukuhlala nabanye abanumzane ngoba kukhona izingane ezigaqayo lapho, osekuzodingeka zibalekiswe lezo zingane ngoba kufike thina, hhawu, kuyinto embi kabi leyo. Kuyinto embi engamukeleki, engafuneki futhi ewubunuku obuphindwe kaningi. Ngithi-ke mina kumhlonishwa uSekela-Mongameli masingabi ngabantu besilisa, njengoba bengishilo ukuthi kukhona umehluko phakathi kwabantu besilisa namadoda. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, Ministers and hon members of this House, there are people who are psychologically disturbed and who think that raping babies will protect them from contracting Aids.

I would like to say to the Deputy President that we can talk endlessly about this but the fact remains that if one is mad, one is simply mad, and cannot be compared with normal people. We should try to speak to people who are planning to do this, so that they will know that if they do it, it will be of no use because it does not help to protect the person who is infected with the disease. He will not recover, instead he will ail until he dies.

Secondly, the big issue is that I do not know whether it is because our homes are breaking down. It seems as if some parents are unable to look after their children at home. Sometimes they go with their children to where they drink and drink with them. What I am saying is that if we do not discuss these things as human beings, things will not go well. Everyone with a child must treat it in the way that he or she was treated by his or her mother. It would be better if parents understood that. It will be dangerous if parents forget that the children that they have given birth to are theirs, and start behaving like a snake which dies after giving birth. That will mean that those growing children and babies that are being born will not have a future. Therefore, if we do not have parents, let us build parents so that we in this House lead healthy people, not people who are mad and fail to look after their children.

We are talking about men here. It is said that they are the ones who rape children. I say no, I disagree. I am a man but I have never raped anyone. Therefore, it must not be said that those are men. [Applause.] Hon members here constitute an honourable House, and there are honourable men outside. Therefore, the use of the words “these men” which causes people in the world to look at men in a bad light, is not suitable for the rapists. It must be said that people who commit these atrocities are these criminals and gangsters so that we can deal with them. People should stop pointing fingers at anyone. The hon Deputy President will not like the idea that as a man he is involved in doing these things. I as a man do not agree. Therefore, I say they should stop saying that “men are the ones who commit these crimes”. They must say crimes are committed by “these criminals, these dogs” so that police will deal with them, and let honourable men like me go.

When I talk about a man I am talking about someone who knows himself that he is a man. To the Deputy President I say I am making a distinction here. We have males and men. Here I am talking about men, men who know that people at home need food, as the Deputy President has said that children need to be protected as well as the whole family at home. A man ensures that all people in the family are okay. If there is a man in the family, members of the family know that they will not be touched by anyone because there is a man in the house.

Now these males that we are discussing today, do not know anything about protecting a family and children and they are the people who believe that children are nothing. They are far beneath the word “animals”. I do not want us to call them animals because we will be soiling animals. Animals have respect, they do not do what we are talking about here. Therefore, we should not liken criminals and gangsters to animals because animals are far better than they. When they are in the forest, they stay there peacefully, except if one goes to them and teases them, then they respond the same way.

I am worried because I am thinking that maybe these people that we are talking about here are unable to declare their love for a woman. Declaring one’s love for a woman is a very good thing. It is a good thing when someone accepts that declaration and says: I love you, so and so. [Laughter.] It means that the people that we are discussing here do not know that. It is a big problem if a person cannot talk to someone sitting opposite him, it means that that person has a problem communicating with other human beings. Where are we going to lock up that person because even the hon Skosana will say his prisons are full?

The problem that we have is that we have people who cannot live well with others, and who cannot even talk well to other people. That is the problem we have here. If a person rapes an eight-month-old baby, what does that person really mean? Is it because a baby cannot talk? It cannot do anything? Now if we cannot stay with other people just because there are crawling babies in that place, they should be hidden just because we have arrived, Hawu! That is a very bad thing! It is bad and unacceptable. It is more that dirty.

I would like to say to the hon Deputy President that we should not have males, as I have said that there is a difference between males and men.]

Let us stand up as men. Let us be real men. I think that we must preach that those people who are raping and molesting children and their wives must know that they do not belong to the category of men. Therefore, they must not be called men. They should be called something else. Those who are developing languages must start looking for a word to describe these people. [Applause.] It is very important that we, as men, must protect ourselves because we are not in the category of rapists. Therefore, we must not be lumped together with these animals. It will help us, therefore, to know that all of us agree that whatever we do as Government, structures of society and members of the public, we should help the police to apprehend whoever is still harbouring the criminals. [Applause.]

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, the Sowetan of 5 November 2001 reports as follows, and I quote:

Shocking reports of the violation of children dominated the media last week. A nine-month-old baby was raped by six men at Upington. A 14-month- old baby was raped at Tweeling last Tuesday. A three-year- old girl was treated in hospital after being raped, allegedly by her grandfather. A man appeared in the Protea Magistrate’s Court for raping a six-year-old girl. A four-year-old girl died after she was allegedly raped in the Northern Province last week. A two-year-old girl was allegedly raped by her father three days before her mother, who had Aids, died of illnesses related to the disease in Dobsonville. A 12-year-old girl tested HIV- positive a year after she was allegedly raped by her stepfather.

As the political fathers and mothers of the nation, we need to ask ourselves whether this is the kind of freedom we envisaged for our children when it was announced that the South African people were free at last - free with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights which afford our children the opportunity to grow up in a protected, normal and open society.

In order to take care of the children of this country, the Child Care Amendment Act, Act 13 of 1999, came into operation on 1 January 2000. The main purpose of the amendments was to provide for the establishment of secure care facilities and for the prohibition of the sexual exploitation of children. The Minister of Social Development, together with the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, requested the SA Law Commission to appoint a project committee to review the Child Care Act and draft comprehensive child care legislation compatible with the provisions of the South African Constitution, the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child.

Let us just look at a few aspects contained in these documents. Firstly, they recognise that a child occupies a unique and privileged position in African society and that for the full and harmonious development of its personality, the child should grow up in a family environment, and in an atmosphere of happiness, love and understanding. Secondly, it recognises that the child, due to the needs of his physical and mental development, requires particular care with regard to health, physical, mental, moral and social development. It also recognises that the child requires legal protection in conditions of freedom, dignity and security.

States which are party to the African Charter are to adopt specific legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of torture, inhuman or degrading treatment and especially physical or mental injury or abuse, neglect and maltreatment, including sexual abuse, while in the care of its parents. Protective measures must include effective procedures for the establishment of special monitoring units to provide the necessary support for the child and those caring for it as well as other forms of prevention, treatment and follow-up of instances of child abuse and neglect.

Participants to the charter should take appropriate measures to eliminate harmful social and cultural practices that affect the welfare, dignity and normal growth and development of the child, especially those customs and practices that are prejudicial to the health or life of the child, and those that are discriminatory to the child on the grounds of sex and other status.

In die lig van die 31 780 gevalle van kinderverkragting gedurende die afgelope 18 maande, doen die Nuwe NP ‘n beroep op godsdienstige groepe, burgerlike organisasies, nie-regeringsorganisasies en gemeenskapsgebaseerde organisasies om die Regering te steun in sy poging om dié misdade te beveg. Ons meen dat spesiale howe vir seksuele misdrywe met multidissiplinêre steunsentrums uitgebrei behoort te word om slagoffers van seksuele misdrywe te bemagtig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In the light of the 31 780 cases of child rape during the past 18 months, the New NP appeals to religious groups, civic organisations, non- governmental organisations and community-based organisations to support the Government in its effort to combat these crimes.

We feel that special courts for sexual offences must be extended by means of multidisciplinary support centres to empower victims of sexual abuse.]

In conclusion, if we say we believe in the future of our country, it also implies that we believe in our duty to look after and care for the future of our country, namely our children. Let us not make this the responsibility of other people. Let us all become part of this process. [Applause.]

Miss O N MNDENDE: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, and hon members, our society views with concern the increasing incidents of child rape which have come to plague our country. It is indicative of a sick society.

An animal’s natural instinct is to protect its offspring. It is therefore incomprehensible and alarming when humans project themselves as a species that preys on its own progeny. These twisted monsters are excited by the helpless pleas, cries, agonised gasps and uncomprehending, horrified stares of their offspring victims whom they violate with perverted impunity. Perhaps these monsters, with their twisted minds, think that when a child is crying or gasping, it is giggling or laughing. We have a responsibility to deal with these psychopaths.

It is a matter of serious concern that in this House our criminal justice system is apparently impotent to combat this and many other crimes. The characterisation of our criminal justice system as ineffective is not intended to score cheap party-political points. It is a mother’s agonised appeal to our natural instincts of self-preservation as a people, to take up our responsibilities and create a normal and safe environment for our children.

I am perturbed at the erosion of decency and the perceptible decline of the moral fibre of the South African society. This social degeneration does not happen in a vacuum. It underpins the collapse of social, economic, cultural and religious systems that sustain a society. We as leaders, spokespersons and role-models in our diverse societies should stand up and fight against this. Society demands of us to account for our inability to give them a safe environment.

It is not enough to report these deeds in the media and then lament about them in our drawing rooms and erudite seminars. We have to introduce visible and effective measures to curtail brutality and depravity. It is now clear that the intellectual refinement and sophistication that informed the drafting of our Bill or Rights, did not foresee a situation where our society would have such an audacious influence. Our law enforcement agencies and criminal justice system were never designed to deal with these miscreants and therefore they are at a loss as to how they should handle them.

Radical situations call for radical thought and solutions. Let us begin to think likewise. Criminals terrorise us because they know they will get away with it. They know that we are concerned about their human rights, which entitles them to VIP status in prisons and early parole. People on the ground demand the death penalty. Let us revisit this deterrent by way of a referendum. [Applause.]

Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Ke a leboha Mme Speaker le Motlatsa Presidente, ha ke fumane sebaka puisanong ena ya masisa-pelo kajeno. Masisa-pelo a peto ya bomme le, holoholo, masea le bana. [Thank you, Madam Speaker and Deputy President, for the opportunity I have to speak in this very emotional debate on the heart breaking situation where women, and more especially babies and children, are being raped.]

Ons is kwaad. Ons is seer en ons kan nie verstaan hoe enige mens dit aan ‘n kleine kindjie kan doen, wat daardie mans in Upington voorverlede naweek gedoen het nie. Dit is nie die enigste voorval van sy soort nie. Ek weet van nog twee klein kindertjies wat in my provinsie verkrag is, al het dit nie die koerante gehaal nie. So is daar nog baie sulke gevalle.

Hoe moet ‘n mens dit verstaan? In die eerste plek moet ons onthou dat ons maar onlangs uit ‘n bestel gekom het wat mense as gevolg van hul kleur as niks gereken het nie. Ons het maar eers in 1995 begin om te probeer om op alle vlakke in ons samelewing die konsep van menseregte te laat posvat. Met menseregte so ‘n jong begrip is ons nog ver daarvandaan om werklik die regte van vroue en kinders te laat geld.

In die tweede plek moet ons onthou dat mishandeling van kinders meer dikwels voorkom in omstandighede van haglike armoede. Daarmee wil ons nie voorgee dat dit net onder sulke omstandighede voorkom nie, maar maatskaplike ontbering dra daartoe by dat ons mense die waarde van ‘n kind se lewe misken.

Ons het in Suid-Afrika goeie wette om te verseker dat kinders en vroue teen geweld beskerm word. Die Wet op Huishoudelike Geweld bied hierdie tipe beskerming en die wet is ‘n groot vooruitgang op die ou gesinswetgewing wat ons uit die vorige bestel geërf het. In die wet word die seksuele misbruik van kinders eerstens beskryf as geweld. Ons moet hierdie boodskap duidelik uitstuur. Verder sê die wet dat seksuele misbruik beteken dat mens die regte van daardie kind skend en die Grondwet sê dat elke kind het die reg dat sy of haar liggaam gerespekteer moet word. Dit moet die tweede deel van ons boodskap wees. Verder praat die wet van mishandeling op verskillende vlakke: emosioneel, liggaamlik, intimidasie en ekonomies. Dit beteken ook dat waar die kind die basiese lewensmiddele ontsê word, ons ook moet aandag gee aan die daaglikse behoeftes van ons kinders.

Die Suid-Afrikaanse Regskommissie is ook op die oomblik besig met die herskryf van kinderwetgewing. In daardie nuwe wet moet ons seker maak dat kinders se regte die uitgangspunt is, sodat ons nie net op probleme reageer nie, maar dat ons hele manier van dink oor die voorkoming en beskerming van ons kinders teen geweld verander. Ons moet ook sorg dat daar dienste is waardeur die kinders se reg om in ‘n gesonde omgewing groot te word en om nie skade berokken te word nie, bevorder sal word. Soos ander sprekers ookal aangedui het, moet ons sorg dat die strawwe wat in ons wette voorgeskryf word, behoorlik toegepas word. Ek dink ons moet voortgaan met ons veldtogte om mense bewus te maak van kinders se regte. Vroue moet hul regte ken. Kinders moet hul regte ken. Mans moet hierdie regte ken en dit respekteer. Ons in die gemeenskap moet ook begin beheer oorneem oor hoeveel geweld ons toelaat. Ek weet die mense sê hulle kan nie in ander mense se huishoudelike probleme inmeng nie. Ek gee toe dat dit ook te ver gevoer kan word.

Nou vra ek saam met die Adjunkpresident: Wat het geword van ons ubuntu? Wanneer gaan ons weer die kinders in ons gemeenskappe beskou as ons eie kinders? As al die kinders in die gemeenskap ook myne is, dan het ek ook die verantwoordelik om hulle te beskerm. Ons moet ook in die skole die boodskap deurstuur, sodat kinders oral weet hoe om nee te sê. Kinders moet weet dat as hulle mishandel word, hulle vir iemand daarvan kan vertel. Iemand wat na hulle sal luister. Ons moet ook onderwysers in staat stel om patrone van mishandeling te herken en hulle in staat stel om iets daaraan te kan doen. Dit is baie belangrik, want dikwels sien ‘n onderwyser of predikant in die gemeenskap dat ‘n kind mishandel word, maar hulle voel hul hande is afgekap. Dit is noodsaaklik dat ons mense het waarnatoe hulle kan gaan om die mishandeling van kinders aan te meld. Daarvoor het ons maatskaplike dienste nodig, maar ons weet dat die meeste klein dorpies nie toegang het tot sulke dienste nie. Ons moet geld bewillig om maatskaplike dienste wat deur vrywillige organisasies en deur kerke bedryf word, te ondersteun. Daarom moet ons ook seker maak, dat die instansies wat die regering daargestel het om fondse te bewillig, goed funksioneer. Daar is dikwels fondse beskikbaar, maar die aansoekvorms is so ingewikkeld en die prosedure so moeilik dat die organisasies - veral vir die kleineres in ons agtergeblewe gemeenskappe - sukkel om fondse te bekom. Daar is genoeg mense wat bereid is om te werk. Ons moet dit nie vir hulle onnodig moeilik maak nie. Ek het ‘n klein gediggie hier geskryf:

Die gehuil, gekreun van ‘n kind deur geweld Daar is ‘n gejaag na geld Mag en verdrukking in ons gemeenskap Ek het nie gevra om gebore te word nie Ek het nie gevra vir mishandeling nie Waarom doen jy dit aan my, Pa? Ma? Suster? Broer? Tannie? Oom en my bure? Ek vra net liefde aandag en beskerming van almal As jy dit nie vir my kan gee nie Waar moet ek dit kry? Moet my nie seermaak nie Want ek kan nie sê waar dit seer is nie Moet my nie verkoop Vir drank of geld nie Beskerm my teen alle geweld. Jesus het my lief As jy my nie liefhet nie Laat ek liefde, aandag en beskerming By iemand wat oorloop van goeie dade Kerke en skole Dis julle kinders ook Beskerm hulle teen die uitheemse geweld Wat ons kinders, vroue en oumense tref.

[Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We are angry. We are hurt and we cannot understand how anyone can do to a small child what those men in Upington did the weekend before last. This is not the only incident of its kind. I am aware of two more small children who were raped in my province, even though it was not reported in the newspapers. There are many such incidents.

How is one to understand this? In the first place, we must remember that we only recently emerged from a dispensation in which people counted for nothing as a result of their colour. We only began in 1995 to attempt to establish the concept of human rights at all levels in our society. With human rights being such a young concept we are still very far from really asserting the rights of women and children.

In the second place we must remember that the abuse of children occurs more often in circumstances of desperate poverty. In saying that we do not want to suggest that it only occurs under such circumstances, but social deprivation does contribute to our people undervaluing a child’s life.

We have good laws in South Africa to ensure that children and women are protected against violence. The Domestic Violence Act offers this kind of protection and the Act is a great improvement on the old family legislation which we inherited from the previous dispensation. In the Act the sexual abuse of children is firstly described as violence. We must convey this message clearly. Furthermore, the Act says that sexual abuse means that one is violating the rights of that child and the Constitution says that every child has the right to have his or her body respected. That must be the second part of our message. The Act further talks about abuse at various levels: emotional, physical, economic; and intimidation. This also means that where the child is deprived of basic sustenance, we must also give attention to the daily needs of our children.

The South African Law Commission is also currently redrafting child legislation. In that new Act we must ensure that children’s rights are the point of departure, so that we do not only respond to problems, but that our whole way of thinking about the prevention of and protection from violence of our children changes. We must also ensure that there are services by way of which the children’s right to grow up in a healthy environment and not to be injured, will be promoted. As other speakers have also indicated, we must see to it that the penalties prescribed in our laws are properly implemented. I think we must continue with our campaigns to make people aware of children’s rights. Women must know their rights. Children must know their rights. Men must know these rights and respect them. We in the community must also begin taking control over the amount of violence we allow. I know that people say they cannot interfere in other people’s domestic problems. I will concede that this can also be taken too far.

Now, together with the Deputy President, I ask: What has become of our ubuntu? When are we once again going to consider the children in our communities as our own children? If all the children in the community are also mine, then I also have the responsibility to protect them. We must also convey the message in the schools, so that children everywhere know how to say no. Children must know that if they are abused, they can tell someone about it. Someone who will listen to them. We must also enable teachers to recognise patterns of abuse and enable them to do something about it. This is very important, because often a teacher or minister in the community sees that a child is being abused, but they feel that their hands are tied. It is essential that we have people who they can go to to report the abuse of children. For that we need social services, but we know that most of the small towns do not have access to such services. We must vote money to support social services run by volunteer organisations and by churches. For that reason we must also ensure that the institutions which the Government has put in place to allocate funds are functioning well. Often funding is available, but the application forms are so complicated and the procedure so difficult that the organisations - particularly the smaller ones in our disadvantaged communities - struggle to obtain funding. There are enough people who are prepared to work. We must not make it unnecessarily difficult for them. I have a short poem here:

 Die gehuil, gekreun van 'n kind deur geweld
 Daar is 'n gejaag na geld
 Mag en verdrukking in ons gemeenskap
 Ek het nie gevra om gebore te word nie
 Ek het nie gevra vir mishandeling nie
 Waarom doen jy dit aan my,
 Pa? Ma? Suster? Broer? Tannie? Oom en my bure?
 Ek vra net liefde aandag en beskerming van almal
 As jy dit nie vir my kan geen nie
 Waar moet ek dit kry?
 Moet my nie seermaak nie
 Want ek kan nie sê waar dit seer is nie
 Moet my nie verkoop
 Vir drank of geld nie
 Beskerm my teen alle geweld.
 Jesus het my lief
 As jy nie liefhet nie
 Laat ek liefde, aandag en beskerming
 By iemand wat oorloop van goeie dade
 Kerke en skole
 Dis julle kinders ook
 Beskerm hulle teen die uitheemse geweld
 Wat ons kinders, vroue en oumense tref.

[Applause.]]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, when South Africa was called the rape capital of the world a few years ago, the rape of children was not a major issue, but today, in some areas, it seems more children are being raped than adults. Young girls are no longer safe in their own homes, communities and even in their schools.

It is unacceptable that fathers rape their own daughters, grandsons rape their grandmothers, uncles rape their nieces, and school teachers and principals rape their students in classrooms and offices. The rape of a nine-month-old baby by six men in the Northern Cape brought shame to the nation of South Africa.

To remedy the situation, we have to find out what is wrong with such men. We have to find out what the contributory factors are and then take bold and decisive action against the perpetrators of such heinous crimes. I believe this Parliament made a mistake by legalising pornography, which inflames the passion and lust of men. For as long as we have so much pornography in this country, including on television, the incidents of rape of children will keep on increasing. Pornography is the theory but rape is the action. An eleven-year-old child who rapes his baby cousin must have seen this being done somewhere before, either on television or in pornographic literature. This kind of abuse is learned behaviour, and not just something that they can make up in their own heads.

Rapists and criminals in general do not fear the soft arm of the law. Men who rape children should lose their right to life. The six men who raped the innocent nine-month-old baby must be sentenced to death. When this Parliament amends the Constitution early next year to allow members of Parliament to cross the floor without losing their seats, the ACDP will also call for amendments to sections that outlaw the death penalty because rapists do not respect women’s and children’s rights. Government and courts should not respect their right to life.

The ACDP says: Stop the rape of women and children. Stop the availability of drugs and pornography and bring back the death penalty. We love our children and must therefore take urgent drastic measures to protect them. Let us make South Africa a safe haven for our children, and not a country where they are raped and abused. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, when I was elected to Parliament, I never thought that there would come a day when I would have to participate in a debate in Parliament on the alarming incidents of child rape and abuse.

Die skrikwekkende voorkoms van kinderverkragting - wat ‘n skande! Wat ‘n absolute verleentheid! Dit is ‘n skande en ‘n verleentheid dat die Adjunkpresident van Suid-Afrika en die hoogste wetgewende liggaam van hierdie land ‘n debat moet voer oor die skrikwekkende voorkoms van kinderverkragting. Wat ‘n skande! Wat moet die wêreld van Suid-Afrika dink? Wat sê dit van ons gemeenskappe; wat sê dit van ons gesinne? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follow.) [The alarming occurrence of child rape - what a shame! What an absolute disgrace! It is a shame and a disgrace that the Deputy President of South Africa and the highest legislative body of this country must have a debate on the alarming occurrence of child rape. What a shame! What must the world think of South Africa? What does this say about our communities; what does it say about our families?]

The hon Deputy President quoted and referred to the traditional slogan ``Any child is my child’’. I am sorry to say to the hon the Deputy President that I think that not even that slogan will solve this problem because, in some cases, these children are raped by their own family members and they do not treat the children like their own in that sense.

Hierdie probleem sal nie deur die Departement van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit of deur die Minister vir Justisie of deur ander wetgewing of ander maatreëls opgelos word nie; glad nie. Hierdie afskuwelikheid sal slegs opgelos word as daar normaliteit in die gesinslewe van gesinne in hierdie land intree, as kinders opgevoed word om respek te hê vir ander, as daar deur elke man ‘n voorbeeld aan sy kinders gestel word oor hoe om kinders, maar ook alle vroue, met waardigheid en respek te behandel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[This problem will not be solved by the Department of Safety and Security or by the Minister for Justice or other legislation or any other measures; not at all. This abomination will only be solved once normality enters the family life of families in this country, when children are raised to have respect for one another, when every man sets an example to his children about how to treat children, as well as women, with dignity and respect.]

The FF will support any action or any measure to rid our society of this terrible and unspeakable scourge. [Applause.]

Mrs P W CUPIDO: Madam Speaker, South Africa, however beautiful this country is, it is, in many ways, not a home for children. It is a home for adults, for people who are over the age of, I can say, at least 16, because this category would be less vulnerable and are able to resist and fight back. If one cannot resist and fight back against what seems dangerous, one might be destroyed forever or bear the scars of an ill society. If a child finds him or herself in South Africa today and looks in the mirror, then what I have just said is what would stare back at him or her. In many ways, we can call it an ill society.

The World Declaration on the Survival, Protection and Development of Children is very specific in clauses 2 and 3. I quote:

The children of the world are innocent, vulnerable and dependent. They are also curious, active and full of hope. Their time should be one of joy and peace, of playing, learning and growing. Their future should be shaped in harmony and co-operation. But for many children, the reality out there of childhood is altogether different.

Instead any day could be the dark day of death when countless children in this country are exposed to dangers such as rape, abuse, abandonment, neglect, cruelty, exploitation, and as casualties of violence and, saddest of all, such children are at the very mercy of the failing Government. It is possible that the Government laws to protect children might remain a dream.

What has this country got to offer for each child that is born today or tomorrow? According to the national crime statistics and trends of 2000 and 2001, 51 200 rapes were reported in 1999 of which thousands were children. There was an increase of 20,8% from 1994 to 1999. The DP believes that the ANC Government is far too bureaucratic. We need to have imaginative proposals and solutions. Although we have a horrible legacy left over from the apartheid era, we must strive towards changing the attitudes of our society.

Kom ons takel die oorsake en die feite van hierdie probleem. Dit is dan juis die ANC wat voor 1994 disinvestering voorgestaan het om die NP- regering op sy knieë te dwing. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit op sigself het grootskaalse werkloosheid en hongersnood tot gevolg gehad. Sedertdien is maatskaplike verval aan die orde van die dag, in so ‘n mate dat weerlose kinders feitlik van geboorte af - twee, drie maande oud - tot in hulle tienderjare die slagoffers word van werklose mans wat hulle oorgee aan hierdie sinlose, demoniese dade van geweld. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Let us tackle the causes and the facts of this problem. It was in fact the ANC who advocated disinvestment before 1994 to force the NP Government to its knees. [Interjections.] This in itself resulted in large-scale unemployment and starvation. Subsequently social decline has become the order of the day, to such an extent that defenceless children have, practically from birth - two, three months old - until they are teenagers, become the victims of unemployed men who indulge in these senseless, fiendish acts of violence. [Interjections.]]

Can a man ever be punished enough after he has raped a two-month-old or a three-year-old child? The DP proposes that the responsible Minister considers legislation that will provide for special professional counselling services over a specific period of time that will enable such child victims to have the best treatment and assistance for maximum recovery. A special fund should also be available to assist the traumatised families.

Ek vra vandag die Adjunkpresident om iets te doen aan die justisiewette van hierdie land en om seker te maak dat hierdie barbaarse geweldenaars behoorlik gestraf word en nooit weer die geleentheid kry om sulke dade te herhaal nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I ask the Deputy President today to do something about the laws of justice of this country and to ensure that these barbaric, violent criminals are properly punished and are never again given the opportunity to repeat such acts. [Applause.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, rape is such a heinous and morally repulsive crime. It debases the victim and leaves her with indelible psychological and emotional scars. There are some sex-pests who do not qualify to be called human, who perpetrate this cowardly act even against young defenceless babies. Such hoodlums deserve maximum sentencing such as that imposed on the bestial teacher of Itsoseng in the North West province.

While we respect the independence of the judiciary, it is not unreasonable to speak out that some of the sentences meted out to these louts are ludicrous. Imagine a judge of the High Court discharging a rapist on the grounds of an eleven-year-old victim not having taken an oath, whilst in effect she had been raped.

Because capital punishment is out of the question in this country, consideration will have to be given to emasculating these sex offenders, and even stigmatising them by registering them in a national sex offenders’ register. Efforts should be mounted to inform the community whenever a paedophile moves around in the area.

It is argued in some quarters that such dastardly acts are committed while the offenders are in a drunken stupor or under the influence of drugs. I reject this argument with the contempt it deserves. If unaware of what they are doing, why are they aware that they have to force what into what on whom?

As public representatives, let us go out there and speak out against this moral outrage. Sex offenders should not be given any room to move around in civilised society. Let us remember baby Tshepang and others who are in a similar situation with love, and hope that they will grow up to overcome the ordeal. As for the infamous rapists, may they carry the curse and never have peace in their lives. [Applause.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, the alarming incidents of child rape and abuse reveal that this nation needs healing. It is a wake-up call that much damage has been done to this country, not only politically and economically, but also morally. It is not enough to quote statistics. They will not bring back babies and children who have been raped. Some have died or have now suffered permanent psychological damage. This problem is a challenge to this nation to soul search itself.

This country has been subjected to foreign cultural values. The country needs an Africanist cultural revolution. Africans must go back to their cultural roots and to their high pre-colonial standard of morality. This is a culture that gave meaning to our unique humanity, ubuntu. In ubuntu the raping and abuse of children is unknown.

The PAC believes that stiffer sentences must be meted out to rapists including chemical castration, seeing that we have become a nation where criminals have more rights than law-abiding citizens, all with the false notion of not being brutal to criminals, no matter how brutal they are to society, including the raping of our babies, children and women. To prevent this insane culture of rapists and murderers in our country, the PAC proposes the following: Firstly, we must fight to remove drugs from our society. Horrible crimes are being committed under the influence of drugs. Drug dealers and traffickers are murderers of our nation. They should be shown no mercy when convicted.

Secondly, there has been a superstitious belief spread by forces of darkness that when an HIV/Aids male patient sleeps with a young female, he can be cured of this disease. Lastly, the moral fibre of the nation has broken down alarmingly. All religions in our country must play their role in helping to heal this nation morally, and return it to its spiritual values.

The PAC extends its condolences to all families in our country which have been affected by these alarming incidents of child rape and abuse.

Mnr P J I BLANCHÉ: Mevrou die Speaker, ek hoop van harte dat hierdie Parlement nou tot die besef gekom het, dat ons nie net met gereelde tussenposes hierdie ``talk shop’’ sonder om doelgerigte stappe te neem wat mense daar buite sal beskerm teen barbaarse optrede van uitvaagsels in ons gemeenskap nie. As ons onsself nie sien as leiers van die Afrika Renaissance, dan moet hierdie Parlement nou stappe neem wat ‘n einde sal maak aan geweldsmisdade. Parlementslede moet besluit om die Grondwet te wysig, sodat die doodstraf opgelê moet word vir sekere geweldsmisdade, anders sal vroue en kinders nooit veilig wees in hierdie land, boere sal ophou boer en polisiemanne en -vroue sal elke dag sterwe.

Ons ervaar reeds dat moordenaars hierheen vlug, omdat hulle hier die doodstraf kan vryspring. In Botswana of enige ander buurstaat sal ses mans nie waag om ‘n 9-maandeoue baba aan te rand, wat staan nog van te verkrag. Waar in die wêreld kry ‘n mens ‘n moordenaar tien jaar en drie jaar opgeskort nadat hy ‘n man vyf kilometer ver agter sy bakkie aangesleep het? Ons kan nie met gereelde tussenposes mosies uitlees in hierdie Parlement en in debatte soos hierdie ons afsku uitspreek oor wandade wat gepleeg word, sonder om iets daadwerkliks daaraan te doen nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, I sincerely hope that this Parliament has now come to realise that we cannot only have these talk shops at regular intervals without taking decisive steps to protect the people out there from the barbaric acts of the dregs of our society. If we consider ourselves to be leaders of the African Renaissance, then this Parliament must now take steps to put an end to violent crimes. Members of Parliament must decide to amend the Constitution, so that the death penalty must be imposed for certain violent crimes, otherwise women and children will never be safe in this country, farmers will stop farming and policemen and women will die every day.

We are already finding that murderers flee to this country, because they will escape the death penalty here. In Botswana or any other neighbouring state six men would not dare to assault a nine-month-old baby, let alone rape her. Where in the world would a murderer be sentenced to ten years’ imprisonment with three of those years being suspended after dragging a man behind his van for five kilometres. We cannot at regular intervals read out motions in this Parliament and express our abhorrence at misdeeds that have been committed in debates such as this one without taking some positive action in this regard.]

The buck stops here. If our laws do not deter criminals, and if our policy is going to provide a safe haven for terorrists, then we must move out of the talkshop phase and into the action phase to protect our citizens. Every one of the relevant parliamentary portfolio committees and every member of those committees must stand up and be counted as a member of Parliament who says that he or she has had enough of crime in this land.

We owe it to the hundreds of murdered policemen, farmers and farmworkers. We owe it to thousands of terrorised children and women. We owe it to South Africans who have been killed in armed hijackings and robberies. We owe it to all these South Africans to put our mouths where we earn our money.

I only got two minutes to talk in this debate, but it is enough. I am much better at working than at talking. I want to earn respect rather than a salary. [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, dit het die verkragting van ‘n negemaandeoue baba gekos om ons met ‘n skok te stel voor die afgryslike realiteite van kinderverkragting en -mishandeling in Suid-Afrika. Die kleine babatjie van Upington weet dit nie, maar daar waar haar geskende liggaampie herstel, het sy die Nkosi Johnson geword in die stryd teen hierdie onmenslike euwel. Baie waar en wyse woorde is vandag in hierdie debat gesê. Politici vat hande teen verkragting. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, it took the rape of a nine-month-old baby to face us, horrified, with the grim realities of child rape and child abuse in South Africa. The small baby of Upington does not know it, but where her small body is recovering, she became the Nkosi Johnson in the battle against inhuman evil. Many true and wise words were spoken in this debate today. Politicians unite against rape.]

The theme of my short message is: We must strengthen the moral fibre of our country by strengthening civil society. Yes, Government has a role to play, especially through education and, of course, its security and judiciary services, but the upliftment of the moral fibre of a country lies primarily with civil society.

I am afraid civil society in South Africa has deteriorated dramatically. Black South Africans upheld vibrant civil organisations before 1994, but these have stagnated since the gaining of power. White South Africans on the other hand tend to privatise their lives in a desperate effort to escape the realities of losing power. All of us must work together for the upliftment of a community life.

In this regard, religion and the church have a pivotal role to play. May I assure members that the mere preaching of generally accepted human values is not enough; because that will merely be moralising and will have little impact on the lives of the people. No, people do find their anchors in a specific religion with specific beliefs, rituals, communion, ceremonies and, above all, a personal vertical relationship, not with an unknown God.

Ons moet kennis neem van die feit dat in die breë gesien, kan die algemene grootste gemene deler godsdiens goed klink vir vrede en harmonie, maar dit kan leeg wees, hol en kragteloos en geen bron vir nuwe lewe nie. Getroue, lojale gelowiges wat ook wil toesien dat hulle kinders in hul besondere geloof opgevoed word, is nie fundamentaliste, maar die hart en die kern van ‘n gesonde gemeenskap. Die owerheid moet hulle nie as ‘n bedreiging sien nie, maar as die belangrikste en voorste vegters in die loopgrawe teen morele verval, as die belangrikste instrument om te verhoed dat mense erger as diere word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We must take cognisance of the fact that taking a broad view, religion can sound good as the biggest common denominator for peace and harmony, but it can be empty, hollow and powerless and not a source of new life. Devoted and loyal believers that also want to see to it that their children are brought up in their particular religion, are not fundamentalists, but the heart and soul of a healthy community. The authorities should not regard them as a threat but as the most important and foremost fighters in the trenches against moral decline, as the most important instrument in preventing people from becoming worse than animals.]

Let us all work together to make every South African not a lonesome lost individual, but a person secured and anchored in a family, a community, and a living congregation. [Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, Deputy President and hon members, throughout history it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, and the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph over good. In those words, members of Government must begin to recognise themselves, for they have either failed to act decisively to prevent child abuse or … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Ah! Go and sit down.

Mr M WATERS: … acted indifferently towards the issue by not giving it the priority or the budget that it deserves and through their ill-conceived policies created a state where justice is merely a word.

The result is a state of evil, because surely a nine-month-old baby who has been gangraped, a three-year-old who has been chopped up and left in a bucket, and 13-year-olds who have been prostituted by their own family members, is evil. But, what is worse? The sick perpetrators of these hideous acts or a Government that sits idly by, watching the children of South Africa suffer? I want this House to know that child abuse goes beyond opposition politics. I am not standing here merely as an opposition MP, but as a truly disgusted citizen who is outraged by the Government’s totally inadequate response to this crime being committed against our children. As a citizen I know precisely the anger and frustration that prompted Dr Heather McCabe to write letters to everyone she could think of and to start an e-mail campaign, expressing the extreme anger and frustration that every decent South African is feeling throughout the country.

In order to understand the extent of the problem, I ask members to visualise a packed Ellis Park Stadium which has a capacity of 55 000 people. Now overpack that stadium with 10 000 additional people, convert those 65 000 people, that is the sport fans, to 65 000 babies, infants and children, and what one is seeing are the numbers who were reported abused, raped and murdered in the year 2000 alone. It excludes unreported cases.

Of those 65 000 children, only 7 000 received justice through the courts, meaning that 10,7% of all reported cases ended in a successful conviction. In other words, a child rapist, batterer or murderer has nearly a 90% chance of getting away with it. Lives are literally being destroyed while members of Parliament live in their sheltered offices putting other things first. [Interjections.] I want to tell the Minister that this is the perception out there.

We do not need more diatribes, we need action. [Interjections.] For a start, this House needs to insist on the implementation of its own laws, and in this case, the Criminal Law Amendment Act, which provides for children’s courts in every magisterial district, thereby better facilitating the process of giving evidence for these already traumatised children.

In reply to a question I asked, the Minister for Justice admitted that a shocking 201 magisterial districts were still without children’s courts, and that it would cost just over R14 million to install all these children’s courts. Yes, only R14 million, which is nothing when one considers that it will go a long way in securing more convictions and making our communities safer places overall. But, of course, the Government claims that it does not have this R14 million, while it does have R90 million for a racism conference and R1,5 billion to bail out the Post Office. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Sit down. Go back to the kindergarten. [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, it does not have R14 million to bring rapists and murderers to justice. Is this due to the fact that children have no political voice or merely because the Government has other priorities? I would like to leave the House with one thought for today - there is no excuse for child abuse. [Applause.]

Mr M J G MZONDEKI: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon members, I will resist the temptation to respond to some of the remarks that have been made here and rather take the advice of the Speaker that we must approach this debate in a positive manner.

The first time that I was called to make an intervention in a child rape and abuse case was some years back in the mining town of Welkom, when I was called by a local parents’ organisation to try and rescue a 14-year-old girl who had been abducted by men to a men’s hostel. She was kept there against her will and repeatedly raped, and we only managed to rescue her 25 hours later.

I will never be able to begin to imagine the trauma and suffering that this young child experienced during her ordeal, particularly because her powerlessness was compounded by the fact that she was voiceless. She was unable to speak. She was extremely defenceless and helpless in the presence of the aggressors. To this day, the question has always remained with me: Why do men have to exert their misguided, perceived powers so violently against vulnerable children and women? What is it that makes some men want to prove their manhood through a forceful and excessive display of misguided violence?

We often talk about rape and abuse in a particular way and talk as if everybody understands the gravity of the actual act, but do men really comprehend its meaning? Perhaps we should talk about child abuse and start talking about a child. The Child Care Act defines a child as a male or female person between the ages of 8 and 18 years. And the Oxford Dictionary describes a child as a young human being below the age of full physical development. This put simply means that it is a young and growing human being who is embarking on a journey through a process of transformation from innocence, defencelessness and incapability to one that is, hopefully, informed, capable and responsible and to assist this young person through a healthy development and transformation process into adulthood. It needs a loving, nurturing and a caring adult, whom this young being can feel connected to, cared about and protected.

The dictionary says that abuse is: ``Used to bad effect or purpose, to treat with cruelty or violence, to assault sexually, to address in an insulting or offensive way’’. It is an intended action that brings into play the element of power, on the one hand, and helplessness on the other. It is often expressed through various forms such as mistreatment, cruelty, maltreatment, violence, neglect and exploitation.

And, if one were to take a situation where a child has fallen victim to rape and abuse, then most often, it would be expressed through aggressive violence to the point of brutality and this against the pureness and innocence that we all, at one stage in our lives, experienced. The known aggressors and violators of such innocence are almost always adult males - men. And the question still is: Why?

If we as leaders and protectors of this nation have to move or remove this huge unsightly thorn from the moral flesh and fibre of South African society, then we need to trace the roots of this evil, which has now embedded itself almost to the point where it has become a commonality and part of our daily lives. In recognising the need to rectify this, we need to ascertain and acknowledge its root causes.

Today’s youth are the offspring of the old ones of the past era, most of whom have grown up without a role model to guide them in their development because some of their fathers were involved in the liberation struggle, some were building the new South Africa, and some were active in mining as migrant labourers. This resulted in the youth of the new millennium, when spoken of, conjuring up images of crime, HIV prevalence, poor academic performances, and a total lack of interest in politics and society in general.

Reflecting on this passage of transformation we also have to acknowledge that the advent of gender equity within the new South Africa has caught men unaware and unprepared, and literary pulled the rug out from under their feet. Men primarily believed and lived with the notion that they own and have power, and therefore perceived themselves to be powerful. Men understood real power to mean being in control of any given situation on the one hand, and controlling the destiny of one’s own domain and those within it on the other. Where they confront barriers to the exercising of their power, physical force is used as the next resort to enforce and instil their power. It never occurs to them that power can be and should be shared and negotiated, even within the domestic domain.

However, whilst we progress in the empowerment and development of our women, our men, as a parallel route of empowerment, were not taken along in a similar process that would enable them to understand the new concept of sharing power with the opposite sex. So is it perhaps not that this is a much-needed supported form of transformation and development for men of today, and the missing piece when seeking the answers behind the cruelty of child rape and abuse.

The current affirmation of the female identity as equal is evident in the employment market, the continuing independence of women and the confidence with which they display their day-to-day lives in activities. Do real men feel threatened by this achievement? Is it causing them to feel insecure to the extent that they have become so vulnerable that they need to resort to situations where they are creators of illusions where they perceive themselves to be powerful beings? And is it not that now that gender equality and empowerment have become a part of our lives, the next best victim to receive and express this perceived power within a most abusive and aggressive manner is the young and innocent child? Is it not time to identify, within the modern South Africa, irrespective of culture, creed and social status amongst ourselves as men, what constitutes a real man, more specifically within this changing culture of gender and role transformation?

It is of much concern that it had to take another victim of child rape and abuse to bring men together in this House to talk about, debate and discuss the issue in the open. But is it not time for us men to inwardly reflect on our own perception of power and acknowledge without reservation that we have to learn to understand and accept our new role within shared power in this new and young democracy of ours? We have to acknowledge that we need, as a first step to redress, to start with ourselves here in this Parliament, as the much-needed role- models to men and the youth out there, and that we need to set an example and participate in the campaign titled: “Real men do not rape’’.

It is our collective responsibility to find within the real man and bring him to the fore, as part of setting an example, and in doing so, embark on a new passage of healing, guiding and sharing. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President and hon members, we have, all of us, been shattered by the recent spate of rape and abuse against our children. Public comment has been angry, emotional, confused and strident in its condemnation of these appalling assaults. Let us not, in our anger, lose sight of the central issue. Rape is not a sexual act, it is an act of violence perpetrated by the powerful over the powerless. These incidents highlight in stark and shocking detail how race, class and gender conspire to rob the most vulnerable of their human dignity, and speak centrally to the perceived and actual power and balances that hold sway in our society.

In respect of this specific incident in Upington, the Director for Public Prosecutions in the Northern Cape has assured my Minister, Dr Penuell Maduna, that the matter will be handled by an experienced senior prosecutor and will be heard in a High Court. The accused will remain in custody until 23 November. The Upington community in particular, expressed anger about last week’s postponement of the case. We need to remind ourselves that our Constitution guarantees every person a fair trial and the accused must be given time to secure legal representation.

In circumstances such as these, anger is understandable, but it is time for us to do something positive, thoughtful and meaningful, something that makes a difference. I believe that this onslaught against children and women will not cease until men become part of the solution. Each one of us has a father, a husband, a son, a brother or an uncle.

On the 25th of this month, the 16 days of activism for no violence against Women begins. Let us embrace this opportunity to recommit ourselves to making our women and children safe and free from fear of violence. These 16 days provide the ideal opportunity to sensitise and involve men and boys proactively in the fight against violence and abuse.

Just this morning, I attended a workshop organised by the Gender Advocacy Programme. The theme of the workshop was “Building Peace in the Home: Integrated Strategies for Change”. Two of the items on their agenda were particularly relevant to today’s debate. They discussed Life-skills development programmes with youths to impact on changing gender roles'', andWorking with men to change the prevalent attitudes and perceptions that lead to violent and abusive behaviour’’.

These two topics, I believe, speak to the very heart of our debate, and the challenge, both for the Government and civil society, will be how to reach and interact with the maximum number of boys and men within manageable and realistic timeframes. As indicated by the Deputy President and other speakers here today, the promotion and protection of our children’s rights enjoy priority status in our governance structures and in the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster in particular.

Recognising the need for fundamental transformation in our society and changing particularly the way in which that society views and treats its most vulnerable, law reform has provided a powerful instrument for effecting change and protecting the rights of our citizens, children, women and men. In this we are guided by our Constitution, which lays down the principles for change and transformation, including a special reference to children and their best interest. It does so by entrenching far-reaching provisions to protect them from abuse, all forms of exploitation and any other action that may infringe upon or compromise their rights in any way.

We are further guided by our accession in 1995 to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child. The world community has underlined the importance of ensuring that children’s human rights are given special attention by the almost universal ratification of the UN Convention.

We have an exceptional body of laws to combat violence and restore the dignity of those whose rights have been violated. The Child Care Act and the Sexual Offences Act specifically prohibit sexual abuse and exploitation of children. These Acts are currently under review to make them even more comprehensive and effective. The host of special legal instruments, approved by this Parliament since 1994, have empowered law enforcement agencies to act against the perpetrators of violence against children and women.

I believe that when we look at children we see our future. They are our most precious asset, and as such, they deserve to be cherished, nurtured and allowed to develop in the best possible circumstances that we as a society, can provide. Historically, though, the majority of our children have experienced oppression, loss of dignity, terrible suffering, and all too frequently death resulting from social and economic deprivation, not to mention political persecution. Lack of access to education, health services, protection from the elements and adequate nutrition has left our children, particularly African children, in dire straits.

While the Government dedicates itself to the enormous challenges that face it in this specialised area of our law, it is important to note that the conspiracy of silence that surrounds incidents of domestic abuse and violence continues to undermine effective law enforcement. All too often violence in the home is regarded as a “family or private matter”, and in such cases friends, neighbours, social workers and the police are reticent to intervene. Whether at home or on the street, whether behind closed doors or in a public place, violence is violence, and failure to act further imperils those most at risk.

In today’s world of altered family structures and the ever-increasing pressures of urbanisation on the one hand, and rural impoverishment on the other, the state has an increasingly significant role to play in the protection of our children. And this protection becomes increasingly important when the perpetrators of domestic violence are shielded by a devastating social irony - that this violence is more often than not meted out by persons related or known to the victim and often in the sanctity of their own homes.

Critical to the successful implementation of this legislation is the integration of services provided by the participating departments. The cluster approach to cross-sectoral matters has proved a useful tool in managing the rigorous demands of this legislation.

The President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, has accorded this issue the importance and status it deserves. The Office on the Status of the Child, situated in the Presidency, provides the essential leadership and guidance in accordance with the activities of the various line departments. Regular contact with that Office has added a new dimension and efficacy to the cluster process. This work process has set new standards for co-operative and integrated task management.

The effectiveness of this legislation, though, is also dependent on other aspects of law and legal processes. In this regard we have developed legislation that places a particular onus on the courts in respect of conditions of bail in these matters. Perpetrators of violent acts will not be granted bail unless the courts find exceptional circumstances exist for not applying the prescribed provisions. Legislation that regulates sentencing has also been passed, and this ensures that judicial offices in serious cases have to apply extremely strict minimum sentences unless substantial and compelling reasons not to apply them prevail.

In terms of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, the maximum sentence for the sexual abuse of a child could be life imprisonment, but the decision to impose the maximum sentence lies ultimately with the judiciary. Measures to sensitise a judicial officer to the very special circumstances that prevail in domestic violence and sexual abuse cases, form a major part of the justice college’s ongoing training and education programme. Recently, a judge in the Pretoria High Court sentenced a man to life imprisonment after he was convicted of raping a seven-year-old girl. The deterrent message carried in this sentence is unequivocal, and it is not an isolated case. By September this year 69 convicted offenders had been handed life sentences for crimes committed against children.

While in the past testimony by children was subject to rigorous interrogation, often to the detriment of the victim, the SA Law Commission’s investigation into process and procedure will further regulate and simplify testimony of child victims in our courts. The establishment of specialised sexual offences courts has made it easier for children to give evidence in court in a child-friendly environment. Separate testimony rooms, closed-circuit television facilities and separate witness waiting rooms are but some of the facilities that feature in this unique court environments. Children and women are turning to these courts in increasing numbers, because they stand a real chance of obtaining effective remedies against sexual and domestic violence. In these environments dedicated investigating officers, specifically trained prosecutors and forensic medical practitioners combine their skills to support victims and survivors as they make their way to the criminal justice system.

A partnership between a National Prosecuting Authority and the Department of Health at the Jooste Hospital in the Cape Flats has managed to sustain their prosecution rate of over 80% since soon after its inception. This is extraordinary, even by international standards. On the train-the-trainer basis similar units have been opened at the Somerset West and Mdantsane hospitals. We acknowledge that until the programme for sexual offences is rolled out to all parts of the country, especially the rural areas, access to these specialised services will be limited over the short to medium term.

Due to funding constraints, the process has, of necessity, to be incremental. Demand for these services far exceeds the parameters of currently available resources. We are in the process of creating decision packages that will compete for funding on the basis of capacity, to add value to service delivery. In short, we are designing a delivery framework that will be reflected appropriately in our budget and in our actions.

However, reducing the level of violence in our society cannot be the sole responsibility of the state or Government. Unless communities act positively and proactively to stem the tide, the impact of our efforts would continue to be compromised. Failure to report the sexual abuse of children and the withdrawal of cases after they have been reported, frustrate our best efforts to make meaningful inroads in this area of law enforcement. Failure to report sexual offences impacts negatively on the overall safety and security of vulnerable groups such as women and children. If rape is not reported, it cannot be responded to. And withdrawing cases after they have been reported reinforces the belief amongst perpetrators that they can act violently and with impunity. It also increases the potential for further acts against other victims if the perpetrators are not brought to book.

Owing to a combination of factors, not all reported rape cases result in prosecution. We have established these specialised courts to eliminate those factors that militate against prosecution and to provide an empowering environment that addresses the fears and concerns of victims and survivors of rape.

Encouraging results are already emerging from all our sexual offences courts. Consolidated and improved prosecutorial services and the user- friendly court environment have been pivotal in the campaign to combat violence against women and children. It has also become a key to improving the interface between victims and the different facets of the criminal justice system.

We must, as a community, eradicate abuse and violence by encouraging victims to report violations, and then stick with the processes and they progress to the court system. We understand that the court process can be frightening, and we appeal to friends and relatives to support victims and survivors who find themselves in these circumstances.

Before I conclude, I must caution members that in the clamour for harsh action against the perpetrators of sexual offences against women and children, we might lose sight of the very people that really need our help

• the victims and survivors of these acts. The focus on what action we take against sexual crime offenders should never overshadow the restorative processes we provide to address their plight. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

            HIGH INCIDENCE OF RAPE AND ABUSE OF CHILDREN

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice that the House-

That the House -

 (1)    notes the shockingly high incidence of rape and abuse of
     children and babies across our country;


 (2)    also notes that South Africa is not only a signatory of the UN
     Convention on the Rights of the Child, but has also passed some of
     the world's most progressive laws aimed at promoting and
     protecting those rights;


 (3)    believes that each incident of rape and abuse of children is not
     simply an isolated event, but an intrinsic part of the historic
     abuse of children that has manifested itself over the centuries in
     -


     (a)     child slavery;


     (b)     child labour;


     (c)     child pornography;


     (d)     the child trade;


     (e)     hunger, poverty and disease;


     (f)     abuse; and


     (g)     rape;


 (4)    agrees to take the fight to the perpetrators by -


     (a)     holding public hearings on child rape and abuse to analyse
          its causes, and inform our counter-strategies appropriately;


     (b)     mobilising all our communities and the public sector to
          fight and expose this scourge; and


     (c)     campaigning for the harshest punishment permissible under
          the Constitution;


 (5)    reminds South Africans that this unacceptable social behaviour
     goes against the grain of the cultural traditions of all our
     people; and


 (6)    calls on all South Africans, as individuals, sectors and
     communities, to unite in the fight against child rape and abuse. Agreed to.

[Applause.]

                WELCOMING OF DELEGATION FROM NAMIBIA

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, before I go on to the next item on the Order Paper, I would like to recognise the delegation from Namibia which is led by the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee of their parliament and also accompanied by the Auditor-General. We would like to welcome them to this Parliament. [Applause.]

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr R J B MOHLALA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  reports of the Taliban retreat from the city of Kabul in
       Afghanistan as Northern Alliance forces march through the city;


   (b)  that the news of the fall of the Taliban regime was received
       with joy by the masses of the people of Afghanistan; and


   (c)  that the United Nations is preparing for a transitional
       government to govern the country;

(2) calls on the masses of the people of Afghanistan to work towards -

   (a)  the restoration of human rights which were eroded as a result of
       the deliberate disregard of such rights by the oppressive and
       repressive Taliban government; and


   (b)  ever-lasting peace, democracy and national unity; and

(3) calls on the international community to mobilise resources to assist the people of Afghanistan in the implementation of the post-war recovery programme and the building of a sovereign state based on a universal Bill of Rights.

[Applause.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  despite the ANC's publicity stunt in the form of the overpriced
       and pretentious ``imbizo’’ campaign, depressed places such as
       Bizana in the Eastern Cape are crying out for relief and
       substantial delivery in return for the votes given to the ANC;
       and


   (b)  the ANC's neglected and inefficient governance makes a mockery
       of the so-called ``the people have spoken mandate’’; and

(2) calls on the ANC to deliver to Bizana before delivering to Burundi, even though it is ``neighbourly’’ to do so, because charity should really begin at home.

[Interjections.]

Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) received with shock the sad news that an Eastern Cape police station commissioner, Captain Andries Japhta, 34, shot dead his wife, children and himself early yesterday morning;

(2) wishes to extend its condolences to the next of kin of both the husband and the wife during their period of mourning;

(3) believes that there may be really serious emotional or other problems experienced by the members of the SAPS, as revealed by the spate of suicides and family murders; and

(4) appeals to the Ministry and the Department of Safety and Security to commission a holistic investigation into this matter with a view to remedying the situation.

Mr M U KALAKO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  reports that former President Nelson Mandela berated US
       President Bush for agreeing to meet Ariel Sharon and yet
       refusing to meet President Arafat; and


   (b)  that ex-President Mandela has proposed that attempts to resolve
       the ongoing conflict in the Middle East be handled by a
       mediation committee composed of a number of countries, not a
       single country;

(2) believes that the proposals made by Comrade Mandela will go a long way towards achieving a peaceful resolution of the conflict in the Middle East; and

(3) expresses its full support for the proposals made by former President Mandela.

[Applause.]

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Voorsitter, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met skok kennis neem van die tragiese gesinsmoord gister in Jansenville, toe die stasiekommissaris, inspekteur Andries Japhta, sy vrou en drie kinders doodgeskiet het voordat hy ook sy eie lewe geneem het;

(2) kennis neem van die uiters stresvolle werksomstandighede van polisielede en dat navorsers bevind het dat die gemiddelde aantal selfmoorde onder polisielede in Suid-Afrika 130 per 100 000 is, die hoogste in die wêreld, terwyl dit in oorsese lande nagenoeg 18 per 100 000 is; en

(3) ‘n beroep doen op die Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit en die Polisiekommissaris om dringend aandag te skenk aan -

   (a)  die emosionele welstand van die SAPD deur te verseker dat hulle
       toegang het tot die nodige professionele sielkundige dienste; en


     b) ander faktore soos personeeltekorte en swak betaling wat lei
        tot beroepsmatheid en emosionele spanning. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) takes note with shock of the tragic family murder committed in Jansenville yesterday, when the station commander, Inspector Andries Japhta, shot and killed his wife and three children, before taking his own life;

(2) takes note of the extremely stressful working conditions of members of the police and that researchers have found that the average number of suicides amongst members of the police in South Africa is 130 per 100 000, the highest in the world, while in countries abroad it is approximately 18 per 100 000; and

(3) appeals to the Minister of Safety and Security and the Police Commissioner to give urgent attention to -

   (a)  the emotional wellbeing of the SAPS by ensuring that they have
       access to the necessary professional psychological services; and




   (b)  other factors such as personnel shortages and poor remuneration
       which lead to occupational fatigue and emotional stress.]

Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the Glazewski report which severely criticises the deal between the National Botanical Institute and the Chicago-based Ball Horticultural Company, and confirms the UDM’s concerns by stating that the deal is not beneficial for South Africa, and recommends that it be renegotiated;

(2) notes -

   (a)  that this is in line with the concerns expressed since April
       this year, during which the party called for intervention on the
       deal; and


   (b)  the concerns raised regarding the impact of this deal on
       floriculture, ecotourism, potential economic opportunities and
       pharmaceutical and related industries; and

(3) urges the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs to intervene and suspend this deal, pending further negotiations, and thereby act in the best interest of all the people of South Africa.

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the massive outcry against the light sentence passed on Piet Odendaal for killing his employee, Mr Mosoko Rampuru;

(2) believes that -

   (a)  racially inclined acts of violence should be met with the full
       might of the law; and
   (b)  the brutality of Piet Odendaal's actions warranted a stiffer
       sentence; and

(3) welcomes the standpoint of the National Director of Public Prosecutions to seek a stiffer sentence in the event of Piet Odendaal’s appeal against his piecemeal sentence.

[Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern and outrage that reports indicate a clear increase in child rape cases in South Africa;

(2) notes that the Government has been slow to act in addressing the urgent problem of child abuse and rape; (3) further notes that it is ironic that the Government is now moving towards proper protection for children, when this kind of crime perpetrated against children has been occurring for a long time;

(4) calls on the Government to provide all child rape victims with immediate access to antiretroviral drugs, with compulsory HIV testing;

(5) notes that the family is the foundational building block of society and that it is the Government’s responsibility to protect it and create an environment in which families can grow and flourish; and

(6) calls on the Government to commit itself to ensuring that, with each case of reported child abuse or rape, the perpetrators are convicted and receive harsh sentences without the option of bail.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die AEB sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met kommer daarvan kennis neem dat die Parlement se Staande Komitee oor Openbare Rekenings bevind het dat die Departement van Justisie en Staatkundige Ontwikkeling se finansiële kontroles in ‘n chaotiese toestand is;

(2) met kommer kennis neem dat die gebrek aan kontrole betrekking het op die departement se depositorekening vir trustgelde, met ‘n omset van R3,7 miljard per jaar;

(3) daarop let dat die betrokke finansiële beheerbeampte die situasie beskryf as ‘n “nasionale krisis” en ‘n “nagmerrie”;

(4) die verskoning van die direkteur-generaal dat hierdie toestand te wyte is aan die gebrek aan opleiding tydens die apartheidsera verwerp, aangesien agt jaar reeds intussen verloop het;

(5) meen dat hierdie onbekwaamheid eerder toegeskryf moet word aan die onoordeelkundige toepassing van regstellende aksie en ander optrede van die Regering wat gelei het tot die uitvloei van bekwame personeel en onmisbare ervaring; en

 6) aanbeveel dat onmiddellike stappe gedoen word om die onbevredigende
    situasie reg te stel, waaronder die heraanstelling van ervare
    personeel wat uit diens gestel is. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the AEB:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that Parliament’s Standing Committee on Public Accounts found that the financial controls of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development are in a chaotic state;

(2) notes with concern that the lack of control refers to the department’s deposit account for trust funds, with a turnover of R3,7 billion per annum;

(3) notes that the relevant financial control officer describes the situation as a national crisis'' and anightmare’’;

(4) rejects the excuse of the director-general that this state of affairs is as a result of a lack of training during the apartheid era, since eight years have already passed in the meantime;

(5) is of the opinion that this incompetence should rather be attributed to the injudicious application of affirmative action and other actions of the Government which led to the departure of competent personnel and indispensable experience; and

(6) recommends that immediate steps be taken to rectify the unsatisfactory situation, including the reappointment of experienced personnel who were dismissed.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, can you please show respect to those members who are reading the motions. You are sitting right behind a member who is reading a motion and making a noise so that we cannot even hear what he is saying. Can we please respect each other!

Mr R P ZONDO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  stolen goods worth R5 million have been recovered since the
       start of Operation Thunderstorm in Johannesburg; and


   (b)  the National Crime Prevention Strategy is proving to be a
       success as it is turning the tide against gangsterism in the
       Western Cape;

(2) believes that the recovery of stolen goods reflects the commitment of the Government to working towards a crime-free society; and

(3) commends members of the South African Police Service for reducing levels of crime in our society.

[Applause.]

Mnr S E OPPERMAN: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die DA sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis - (1) daarvan kennis neem dat die stryd om die premierskap tussen die Nuwe NP-leierskap en die ANC in die Wes-Kaap in alle erns begin het;

(2) ook daarvan kennis neem dat die Nuwe NP-leierskap se aanbeveling gegrond is op die veronderstelling dat hulle kandidaat groter bruin steun geniet en volgens hulle ‘n Christen is, en dus meer aanvaarbaar is, in teenstelling met die ANC-kandidaat wat ‘n Moslem is;

(3) glo dat dié verdelende en selfvernietigende benadering van die Nuwe NP nog steeds ooreenstem met die benadering van die ou NP; en

 4) 'n beroep doen op die amper gewese Nuwe NP om die speletjies met
    rassisme en godsdiens te staak en die basiese beginsels van die
    Grondwet, waartoe hulle hul met hul inhuldiging as lede van hierdie
    Parlement verbind het, te eerbiedig. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr S E OPPERMAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

(1) notes that the battle for the premiership between the New NP leadership and the ANC in the Western Cape has begun in earnest;

(2) also notes that the New NP leadership’s recommendation is based on the presumption that their candidate enjoys greater coloured support and is, according to them, a Christian, in contrast to, and therefore more acceptable than, the ANC candidate, who is a Muslim;

(3) believes that this divisive and self-destructive approach of the New NP is still in accord with the approach of the old NP; and

(4) appeals to the almost defunct New NP to stop the games involving racism and religion and to respect the basic principles of the Constitution, to which they committed themselves upon their induction as members of this Parliament.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Mr Opperman, we have ruled in the past that you can only move a motion in the name of your own party and not in the name of another party which is not in this House. Please, do remember that.

Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) express its concern about the murders and the safety of the members of the SA Police Service, despite their goodwill in ensuring the safety and security of the public at large;

(2) notes that there are safety precautions that they should also follow to ensure their safety, such as wearing bulletproof vests, but that, in most cases, they neglect to do so;

(3) further notes that, in combatting criminal activity, there is no 100% absolute safety but these safety precautions have a positive impact on the reduction in police deaths; and

(4) resolves that the senior management of the SAPS should regulate the wearing of bulletproof vests as an obligation on all police officials, especially those who deal directly with crime.

Ms F HAJAIG: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  children from Laudium schools organised by Lamwa have collected
       food and clothing for distribution to adults and children who
       suffer from HIV/Aids and tuberculosis; and


   (b)  this food and clothing will be distributed in Ivory Park, Ebony
       Park, Phomolong, Kanana and other informal settlements in the
       area;

(2) commends the patriotism and solidarity displayed by these schoolchildren and women; and

(3) calls on all people, young and old, to emulate this important example.

[Applause.]

Mnr F J VAN DEVENTER: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem -

   (a)  van die welslae wat die personeel van Operation Neptune behaal,
       asook die moeilike omstandighede waaronder hulle werk ten einde
       Suid-Afrika se mariene bronne te beskerm teen stropers en
       smokkelaars;


   (b)  dat sedert Operation Neptune in Augustus 2000 aanvang geneem
       het, is 1 226 verdagtes in hegtenis geneem, afkoopboetes van
       R189 000 uitgereik en 59 voertuie gekonfiskeer is;


   (c)  dat 12 bote en sleepwaens en perlemoen ter waarde van R12,9
       miljoen ook gekonfiskeer is;


   (d)  dat personeel van Operation Neptune hulself dikwels onder skoot
       bevind tydens gewelddadige konfrontasies met stropers; en


   (e)  Operation Neptune daarin geslaag het om hierdie welslae te
       behaal ten spyte van 'n tekort aan personeel en hulpmiddels; en


 2) 'n beroep doen op sy lede om almal wat betrokke is by Operation
    Neptune, te bedank en geluk te wens met die toewyding waarmee die
    manne en vroue Suid-Afrika se waardevolle bronne soos perlemoen
    beskerm. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr F VAN DEVENTER: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House - (1) notes -

   (a)  the success achieved by the staff of Operation Neptune, as well
       as the difficult conditions under which they work to protect
       South Africa's marine resources from poachers and smugglers;


   (b)  that since the inception of Operation Neptune in August 2000, 1
       226 suspects have been arrested, spot fines of R189 000 issued
       and 59 vehicles confiscated;


   (c)  that 12 boats and trailers and abalone to the value of R12,9
       million have also been confiscated;


   (d)  that staff of Operation Neptune often find themselves being shot
       at during violent confrontations with poachers; and


   (e)  Operation Neptune has managed to achieve this success despite a
       shortage of staff and resources; and   (2) appeals to its members to thank and congratulate everyone involved in
   Operation Neptune on the dedication with which these men and women
   protect South Africa's precious resources like abalone.]

Ms A VAN WYK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes that President Mbeki neglected to address some very important issues in his statement in the NCOP yesterday, such as that South Africa is not the crime capital of the world and that there are worse international examples;

(2) acknowledges that President Mbeki also neglected to admit that the wide variety and incidence of violent crime in South Africa places us in the company of societies where justice and the rule of law have completely disintegrated; and

(3) acknowledges that South Africa’s collective responsibility does not absolve President Mbeki and his Government from their constitutional responsibility to protect the safety of person and property of every South African.

                          BABEL-OUED STORMS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

 (1)    notes that hundreds of people have lost their lives in storms
     that devastated the Bab El-Oued district in Algeria over the past
     weekend; and


 (2)    extends its deepest sympathy to the bereaved and the people of
     Algeria.

Agreed to.

                 REVENUE LAWS SECOND AMEMDMENT BILL

                       (First Reading debate)

Ms B A HOGAN: Mr Chairperson, the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement this year has a very useful quotation in it. It is as follows:

Against the background of the tax reforms undertaken in the past two years, the 2002 Budget will herald a period of consolidation

I think everyone in this House and particularly in our committee will welcome that commitment. I wanted to bring this Bill to the House to show it to members, but there was no wheelbarrow strong enough to carry that Bill into this House.

However, it has been a period of considerable tax reforms that we have gone through in these last two years and this Bill, in a sense, is a culmination of much of the tax reforms that have been taking place in the last two years. In particular, it deals with capital gains tax. The final remaining issues to be dealt with regarding capital gains tax relate to company restructuring and how capital gain will be dealt with in that way. The Bill also covers amendments to previous Bills we have passed relating to capital gains tax and refines those clauses as well.

The Bill also amends 14 previous taxation laws. So it is a Bill which covers a wide range of issues. The speakers that will follow me, no doubt, will speak to some of the most important parts of it. Let me just mention that the secrecy provisions relating to matters that come before the commissioner, such as dealing with money-laundering, are being dealt with. I know that someone will be speaking on that. We are refining the process of the way objections and appeals can be lodged with the SA Revenue Service. Extensive research was done on that and it is also going to be improved.

There are various matters relating to Siyakha, which is the restructuring of the SA Revenue Service. One bears in mind how vigorous and resolute that restructuring has been. This Bill deals with major components of that. It also deals with amendments to the VAT laws, and to customs and excise … [Interjections] … taxation of controlled foreign entities and a number of other more minor issues.

However, it is not to these issues in particular that I want to speak. Firstly, there are just a couple of issues that I think, from the committee’s perspective, we would want raised. The issue of consolidation is very important. I am inundated by people who are constantly phoning and writing to me saying that the plethora of tax laws that have come through have inundated them and they are unable to cope with the amount of tax laws coming through.

That is correct. The amount of tax reform that we have undertaken has meant that a large amount of tax legislation has come through. That has left tax advisers and ordinary taxpayers in a difficult position because they have to cope with the new legislation. Many of them are battling to deal with these changes. So this period of consolidation will be very welcome so that people will be able to familiarise themselves with the considerable changes that have taken place in the tax policy. I certainly do hope that this will be a period of consolidation. [Interjections.]

In addition, there are one or two other matters. The one is the taxation of the retirement fund industry. This has been put on hold for quite some time, and has been promised. We have to balance the necessity of getting this overview over and done with, with the requirements of quality legislation. I know that we did set a timeframe of more or less two years to look at the overhaul of the taxation of the retirement fund industry, yet I appeal that we do not stay too closely to those timeframes because I do believe that we need time to look at this comprehensively and holistically, and manage a very good quality Bill when it comes before Parliament.

The taxation of the public benefit organisations has gone a considerable way. There are still refinements that have to be added to the lists of those public benefit organisations that will benefit. I am hoping that this will come through in the next year so that NGOs will have a better understanding of their tax dispensation. The review of tax on banks is in the pipeline and that is certainly going to take up a lot of the SA Revenue Service’s energies.

Another issue is the simplification of the Income Tax Act. We need to address it. I do bear in mind the load that tax officials are carrying, but we do need a simplification of the Income Tax Act. It is very complex, very comprehensive and we do need it to be simplified. We also need it to be put into plain English. I think it is, at this stage, very difficult for most people to understand the particular Income Tax Act. The reforms that have taken place in the last two years have not been the only reforms that we have seen. Yes, they have been mighty reforms. I was looking at the 1994 Budget Review and the Katz commission that reported in 1994, and it is astonishing to realise how far we have come in achieving so many of the reforms that were mooted at that stage.

The reforms of personal income tax have been considerable. We have narrowed and lessened the income tax brackets. The thresholds at which people come into the income tax system have been increased, making it far easier for people earning low salaries to deal with income tax. The reduction in the gradation of the marginal rates schedule has been considerably improved. Adjustments for inflation have gone ahead very well in the last two years. We have seen considerable tax relief, particularly in the last two years and particularly to the lower and middle-income groups, which has been very beneficial. It has acted as a stimulus to the economy. We have seen tax relief for company taxes as well. What is often overlooked, too, is that, within the first 18 months of us coming to Parliament, we removed all gender discrimination in tax laws, which was a considerable achievement at the time if one looks back to the complexities related to that. It is astonishing that those gender discriminations remained within our taxation system.

If one looks at how the revenue service has managed to reform itself from an institution which was regarded by the Katz commission and the Margo commission as an institution that was in dire need of reform and virtually on the point of collapse, and how under this Government the necessary mechanisms have been brought into place to overhaul the tax administration system, the changes are absolutely phenomenal. Those changes have, no doubt, led to what Judge Dennis Davies referred to as Sars ``glittering performance’’ in collecting tax over the last couple of years.

It has also been because the taxation basis of this country has changed. Not only have we been able to bring more and more people, who previously did not regard themselves as legitimate taxpayers because they believed that the government was an illegitimate regime, into the tax net, but we have also expanded the tax base whilst reducing the individual burden of individual taxpayers. We have expanded the base and reduced the individual burden. This means that we have been able to collect revenues previously unanticipated.

I would like to congratulate Sars and the Ministry on performing in a very dedicated and resolute way to overhaul not only the system of our revenue collection, but the entire basis of our taxation system, which has brought us into a new, globalised world as well. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Barbara Hogan, I hope that you were not planning to extend the tax base to cover the local customs and physical exercises. [Laughter.]

Mr K M ANDREW: Mr Chairman, it is always a pleasure to follow the hon Ms Hogan, and I am pleased that she has survived the year and is still able to keep standing for 10 minutes.

In the time available, there are a few important issues that I would like to cover. The first is the problem of civil society not being given enough time to prepare their comments for the committee hearings. In the past, we in the DP have simply registered our concern, but today I want to elaborate a little.

The submissions and evidence of the private sector and civil society are critical to the work of the Portfolio Committee on Finance, particularly in the area of taxation. Much of the legislation that we deal with is extremely complex and one requires the input of experts to be able to evaluate it. For example, one of the 190 clauses in this Bill amends part of the Income Tax Act, and the part it amends is section 9D(9)(h)(ii)(bb). One can imagine how easy that is to follow for people who are not tax experts, which is the case with most of us who are on the committee.

Private sector organisations have complained repeatedly over the years, to little avail. As our tax legislation has become dramatically more complex over the past two years, the problem has worsened. Let me quote from a submission from Saica, the SA Institute of Chartered Accountants:

Saica has been requested to furnish comments on the various budgets of the legislation, which comments were forwarded directly to the commissioner of Sars. The one concern that must be raised relating to the budgets of legislation made available to Saica is the fact that we are only supplied with copies of the draft amendments, and are not privy to the underlying rationale of the commissioner seeking the specific amemdments proposed.

As has been pointed out to this honourable committee previously, the commissioner allows a reasonable time for comment in respect of the earlier budgets and as a deadline for finalising the amendment approaches, so the time to comment is reduced. We wish to place on record our concern on the extreme deadline placed upon us to submit proper and written comments to this committee on legislation comprising 233 pages.

Saica only received the composite version on 10 October 2001, therefore it was not possible for Saica to submit written comments to the committee before the deadline imposed on us.

The difficulties that must be noted are that certain sections which were contained in the draft legislation made available to us have now been removed from the composite Bill. Furthermore, certain new sections have now been inserted.

It becomes very difficult to comment properly on a Bill of 233 pages where one is unable to readily ascertain which sections are new and which ones have been amended from those previously seen by us.

They are not alone. Virtually all the private sector bodies share that view. The consequences of rushing into taxation on foreign dividends, residence-based taxation and capital gains tax have been seriously harmful to our economy. The DA warned about the problems likely to be caused by ramming through CGT legislation earlier this year. But, what has happened? I quote again from Sica referring to Schedule 8 of the Act:

The CTG was introduced by way of the Schedule 8 in Act 5, promulgated on 28 June 2001. The schedule originally comprised some 86 paragraphs. That schedule was subsequently amended by Act 19 on 27 July 2001. Act 19 amended 11 paragraphs in the Schedule 8. The current Bill under consideration by this committee seeks to amend 52 paragraphs out of the 86 originally contained in the Act.

We, as an institute, requested that the date of implementation of the tax be postponed to 1 March 2002, so as to ensure that the legislation would be finalised by the date on which it took effect. We believe that it is unfortunate that 52 of the 86 paragraphs dealing with the tax are now being amended, and that such amendments will clearly only be promulgated after the date of implementation on 1 October 2001.

In just five months there have had to be three amendments for every four paragraphs in that schedule. On average, 75% of the law has had to be amended in just four months. I do not know whether it is a fuss or a disgrace, or both.

What harm has been done by this plethora of new taxes? Firstly, South Africa has become less attractive to skilled foreigners. People we desperately need are being discouraged from settling in South Africa. Retirement funds will once again be adversely affected and small business is being harmed by the introduction of increasingly complex tax legislation.

We need to recognise that the best way to raise the most revenue, while reducing individual taxes, is to grow the economy. The sad fact is that the combination of new taxes introduced over the past two years will be extremely harmful to our economy. What is sadder still, is that by the time Government wakes up to that fact, much of the damage would already have been done.

One may ask: Does Government not see this danger? The answer may well lie in the response given by Sars. Submissions were made to the committee that the starting dates for valuing shares for CGT purposes should be changed because of the negative impact on markets after the 11 September 2001 terrorists attacks. Otherwise, Government would receive an unwarranted windfall of CGT amounting to billions of rands.

The response from Sars was that the JSE all-share index is not significantly lower than it was on 1 April 2001 - it is only 6% lower in six months. Only somebody who has a mind-set which says that all shareholders, including pension funds, are rich and should not complain about being fleeced, would suggest that a 6% drop in six months in an individual’s capital or retirement savings is not significant.

That is the mind-set which we are dealing with. That is the mind-set which will deter investors, shackle entrepreneurs and destroy many small and medium enterprises. It is the opposite of the mind-set which South Africa needs to address poverty and unemployment. The DA will be opposing this Bill.

Mr H J BEKKER: Chairperson, the Second Revenue Laws Amendment Bill is more than a mouthful. In my 20 years of political representation I have never seen a Bill as thick, long and detailed as this particular one. I wonder whether the Minister wants to confuse us with paperwork. More than 250 pages with 189 amendments to the income tax or revenue laws have been effected. The IFP is in agreement with many of these amendments, but of course, certain concerns will remain with regard to a limited number of these clauses. On the whole, however, we are supportive and the IFP will vote for this Bill.

Regarding the Bill, I will, in the limited time at my disposal, refer to the following aspects of the amendments - the relaxation of the secrecy provisions in income tax, customs and VAT laws to facilitate prosecution of offenders, particularly drug traffickers and money-launderers. A proviso is that the secrecy provisions could be breached only in the case of a serious offence. A possible legal challenge regarding the right to privacy has been overcome by the insertion of two clauses to protect this particular aspect.

The confidentiality of information supplied by taxpayers remains a fundamental principle of taxation. However, Sars should be able to pass on information obtained which reveals evidence of a serious non-tax offence or of an eminent and serious public safety or environmental risk. This is also in line with international trends and in the general public interest, as such disclosure outweighs the potential harm to the taxpayer’s concerns, and the IFP is in full agreement with this.

The Bill also enables Sars to make regulations about dispute procedures in order to prevent costly litigation. In this regard, the Bill allows for pre- trial conferences to establish the issues and to reach a settlement before the matter is referred to a court for taxpayers and tax practitioners. The Bill further provides for tax relief for corporate restructuring, but has come in for heavy criticism regarding the fact that the provisions will apply retroactively from 1 October, although companies will be given until 1 December to take advantage of existing legislation.

The Bill makes further amendments to capital gains tax provisions. Some 52 of the original 86 clauses are to be amended. This has led to strong criticism from practitioners because the amendments will only come into force after the tax becomes effective, and that is on 1 December 2001. Furthermore, it could be argued that all capital gains legislation should be consolidated to ensure easier compliance and understanding for taxpayers and tax practitioners.

The provision dealing with the weighted average training price of listed shares for capital gains tax has also come in for considerable criticism. The argument has been raised that using the five days before 28 September had a distorting effect because of the 11 September attacks on the United States. The terrorist attacks in America led to a general decline in share prices in the latter half of September. Capital gains tax, of course, took effect on 1 October.

As of 28 September 2001, the JSE all-share index reflected a 6% decline since 1 April 2001. This represents a significant decline in the rand value of South African shares. With regard to the top 10 shares on the all-share index, this could potentially represent a R2,5 billion windfall for the Minister and Sars. In theory, the decline has presented Sars with an abnormally low base in respect of investors as it represents the difference between the published Sars value and ruling price. Sars indicated that a small investor in unit trusts could utilise his R10 000 annual exemption to counter the effect of the artificial gain.

The prices of major shares have continued to increase in value since 28 September and, as a result of changing market value on valuation date of listed equities, it will probably benefit Sars to the extent that I have mentioned before. Theoretically, if the terrorist attacks had taken place after 1 October 2001, the contrary, of course, would have been applicable. We understand that the Minister must juggle and play the odds of the shares market. This time he has again won.

The IFP nevertheless supports the legislation and we will vote for the Second Revenue Laws Amendment Bill.

Dr P J RABIE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the Second Revenue Laws Amendment Bill is a very complex piece of legislation, and I think some of the speakers have referred to the fact that it is more than 233 pages long. It is also very complex and an example of the complexity of this particular Bill is the numerous amendments that were made to this Bill. In terms of the current legislation, the taxpayer may lodge an appeal against an assessment or certain decisions of the Commissioner to the specially constituted court for hearing income tax appeals.

The present procedures followed in the special court are basically those followed in the magistrates’ courts. The present procedures have shortcomings, however, with reference to the discovery of documents defining the issues and disputes, etc. This Bill will provide for tax courts, provide for the registrar of the court and grant specific powers to the court to make orders, etc. Provision is made for settlement of disputes. This Bill also provides for an extended Bench when the amount in dispute exceeds R50 million or where the taxpayer and the Commissioner agree thereto that the case may be heard by a component with three judges.

The Bill also refers to the writing off of taxes, duties and levies, especially if the recovery of the debt will be uneconomical to the state. In line with international best practice, the secrecy provisions are amended so that employees of Sars will be allowed to share information that is in the national interest with other organs of state. I think some of the other speakers, such as the chairperson Ms Barbara Hogan, referred to money- laundering and so forth, and I think that if we want to retain our credit rating, it is very important that we apply this particular Act.

Allow me to thank the officials of Sars and the Treasury for allowing all interested parties to respond during a number of public hearings. Their submissions really gave us insight into the complexity of this Bill. A number of valid arguments were raised during the hearings and again I think the Life Offices Association made a very worthy contribution when they specifically referred to paragraph 29 of Schedule 8 where they state that the time-based apportionment and method may preclude the use of the weighted average bases for all listed financial instruments.

This Bill also allows for capital gains tax relief in respect of transactions between group companies or between founding shareholders and their company. Again, we know that capital gains is very controversial and we feel that some of these regulations referring to capital gains tax will have to be amended in future.

The Bill provides for unbundling transactions and transactions relating to the liquidation, winding-up and deregistration of a company. Section 9D(9)(b) were also amended and refer to capital gains in respect of foreign subsidiaries. In a submission during the public hearings of the Portfolio Committee on Finance, it was mentioned that a capital gain may accrue over a number of years. It may be wise, again, to amend this subsection in as far as only the number of whole years and not parts thereof could be taken into account when the capital gain is calculated.

In essence, this Bill enables South African business to participate within the global economy, and sections 9D and 9H provide for participant exemption where this controlled foreign entity holds more than 25% of the equity share capital in that other foreign entity. This clause will also help to distinguish between active management interest in a foreign company and passive portfolio investment. The New NP supports this Bill.

Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, one is really quite flabbergasted at the behaviour of the DP on this occasion. Here is a Bill which in print is 132 pages long, with massive detail, and what does the DP do? It opposes the Bill. I would say that it is clear to me that the motive for the opposition is totally political. [Interjections.] It is totally a political manoeuvre because they are going to go to the public and say that the DP defends the interests of the private sector and the Government does not. That is their reason for the objection. [Interjections.]

When one listens to the hon Andrew and the petty objections that he raised here, one can see no reason in principle why the DP should object to this particular Bill. It is a massive Bill, let us accept that. It is very complex too, and we have really been through wringer in respect of discussions, assessment and evaluation in the committee. One had hoped that having been through all that, we would all agree that this is a necessary Bill - complex yes, but necessary.

One wonders whether the hon Andrew is not being a little disingenuous when he complains about the short timescale in which people could raise objections. We were given to understand by officials and experts that some of the objections and complaints of the short time for response, were actually merely to repeat the arguments which we have been through many times.

And in some cases - I will not say all - there was clearly a stalling element in the objections about the time given to people to respond. So I would say that we have been through a very thorough process. The Bill is understood by the committee, that is by those who attended regularly at least, which was not always the hon Andrew, and the Bill must proceed. Mr K M ANDREW: He is a liar.

Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, on a point of order, I want to ask for your protection. I am being accused of lying, which is unparliamentary.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Andrew, I heard that and I would like you to withdraw it.

Mr K M ANDREW: Certainly, I withdraw. I am sorry, I thought the hon member was still on the …

Prof B TUROK: Let me say to the hon Andrew that it is a blatant ruse to accuse someone of lying and then to withdraw. This is rather petty and should not happen in this Parliament. [Interjections.] Chairperson, I am not going to be harassed by this gentleman because he has no sensible arguments … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Turok, once a member has withdrawn, one may not refer further to that remark. That remark is withdrawn. Order! Let us listen to this point of order.

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I accept that, but then the member must not follow it up with another unparliamentary comment by saying that the hon member Turok is telling an untruth.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, the point is upheld because it is in the best tradition of Parliament that one keeps the decorum and dignity of Parliament. It is not honourable, having withdrawn a comment, to repeat it. If it is withdrawn, it must be withdrawn. And as for the speaker at the podium, the remark that has been withdrawn may not be referred to. So it is applicable to all sides and I trust that hon members will honour the best traditions of Parliament.

Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, I think the best way that I can honour that is to say that I will not refer to the hon Andrew in any debate again. Is that acceptable? [Applause.] Can I proceed with my speech?

In our discussions on taxation in this House, the focus has often been, especially at Budget time, on the rate of taxation that is being applied; who is going to gain and who is not going to gain and so on. The rate of taxation has been the focus. From that flowed a consideration about the South African tax base, and it has been made clear to this House that what is very important for the survival of South Africa and for its efficient running is for the tax base to be maintained and protected.

Recently we have had a lot of discussion in the finance committee and in this House about the importance of broadening the tax base. We have had discussions on whether people are paying more. Who is paying more? Are there dodgers? Is there tax evasion or tax avoidance? How does that affect the broadening of the tax base?

This Bill takes a slightly different approach, and the essential point made in our discussions and briefings is that what is critical is that we need to protect the tax base - not only to broaden it, but to protect it against people who manipulate taxation in many ways. What has also been indicated to us is that this becomes particularly important in the period of globalisation and in the integration of South Africa into the world economy, because this is providing opportunities for people to erode the tax base. Therefore, Sars, rightly, has put this Bill on the table with one of the reasons being that we need to protect the tax base in the period of globalisation.

We were informed, as many of us know, that there are countries which give certain concessions in order for them to compete against each other and to compete against South Africa. What is happening is that in some countries there is a race to the bottom of taxation by providing concessions in order to attract foreign investments. We were told that the OECD is, indeed, targeting harmful tax practices which fall in this area of eroding taxation in a variety of countries, particularly emerging market countries, which enables other countries to compete for capital investment. They give concessions which, in fact, undermine the tax base of South Africa and other countries. That is what is happening.

Of course we are anxious to get foreign investment. This is basic policy and we are doing that. But the principle that has been followed is that if one earns money in South Africa, one should pay tax here before one leaves. This protects the tax base. Because what some fly-by-night businesses are doing is that they come into the country and leave without paying that tax, and so this undermines our tax base. Taxpayers, we are told by Sars, cannot reap the economic benefit of the South African infrastructure and then depart from the country with this accrued benefit without paying their fair share of tax.

So what we are saying to the world business community is that by all means, it should come into South Africa, do its work here and accrue the benefits, but it should pay its tax and not leave here before it has done so. This is essential, as I say, to protect our tax base. But, of course, foreign investors are also protected in other ways. There are mutual agreements between different countries which give relief abroad so that they do not have to pay twice.

I want to refer to the fact that South African taxpayers themselves sometimes behave in an undesirable manner because they have a great deal of liquid capital. The press is often referring to the fact that South African capital flows outside in a way which is unhelpful to the economy. Sometimes funds are shifted abroad to a subsidiary in a tax haven, and at other times the headquarters of a company shifts abroad to a lower tax area. The Treasury has said to us that if we are too restrictive in our taxation, the headquarters will go offshore, if we are too liberal, the companies send their assets offshore.

What Sars is trying to do is to have a balanced system, and this is what this Bill is about, to ensure that there are incentives for South African companies to stay onshore, to remain here, so that we have the benefit of not only the economic investment, but also the taxes that they pay. Time restricts me from elaborating developing furtheron the issue. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr G W KOORNHOF: Mr Chairperson and hon members, with the length of the Bill and its explanatory memorandum, the final Bill amounting to 218 pages, it is unrealistic to discuss it comprehensively in the three minutes allocated to me.

Let me therefore highlight four issues that we view as important. Firstly, we applaud the removal of the secrecy provisions regarding the Income Tax Act, the Value-Added Tax Act and the Customs and Excise Act. It is fair that the Commissioner for the SA Revenue Service will now be able to disclose information to the National Commissioner of the SA Police Service and the National Director of Public Prosecutions where such information relates to a serious offence or an imminent and serious public safety risk. Such information can only be disclosed through an order issued by a judge in chambers.

Secondly, corporate rules in this Bill provide for group relief measures in respect of transactions between group companies or between founding shareholders and their company. These measures cover corporate formations, corporate share-to-share takeovers, corporate liquidations, unbundlings and asset transfers within a single corporate group.

Thirdly, there is now a finality regarding the method of determining the market value of shares listed on a securities exchange on valuation date. Not all role-players and people may like this method but at least it will be difficult to manipulate. Fourthly, a new subclause in the Bill aims to permit supplies of goods to industrial development zones, to be made at zero-rate tax. We are in favour of investigating the feasibility of export processing or industrial development zones, and therefore support this new subclause.

In conclusion, with the introduction of the complex capital gains tax six weeks ago, together with scores of highly technical amendments since then, the situation with regard to the implementation of capital gains tax has become very confusing and complicated. In Afrikaans we say ``dit is ‘n deurmekaarspul’’. I want to suggest to the Minister and the commissioner that they should consider producing, as soon as possible, a consolidated version of the Schedule 8, dealing with capital gains tax, and distributing it as widely as possible to all stakeholders. Following such a consolidated document must be a layman’s guide to capital gains tax, which can become a reference document and must be easy to understand by taxpayers.

The UDM supports the Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Mr Chairperson, the Minister of Finance is always at pains to make life easier for the people of this country and has consequently won the hearts of the international community and ordinary South Africans for the masterly manner in which he handles his portfolio. After he laid down ways and means of bringing poverty to its knees in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, he is now calling on us to allow him to reform tax laws.

The Bill seeks to address shortcomings in tax laws on the basis of which the Commissioner for the SA Revenue Service has lost court cases. The current objections and appeals procedures against the SA Revenue Service are roundabout and take a long time to reach a solution. The amendment seeks to bring about a quick process from problem to solution. The new procedure will demand of the Minister to make rules in respect of time- limits that had to be adhered to in dealing with objections. The commissioner will be empowered to write off debts, depending on reasonable steps that are presented to him or her.

The fact that to this end the Bench consists of a retired judge, will be improved by having three judges instead. Whatever decisions will be arrived at will be taken by the three judges - a measure that will obviously cut down on the number of appeals to the High Court or even the Supreme Court of Appeal, as is always the case. In keeping with our democratic order and our determination to be transparent, the secrecy clauses in the Value-Added Tax Act, the Income Tax Act and the Customs and Excise Act are being toned down in order to allow the SA Revenue Service to disclose information if it is of public interest, as in the event of criminal offences. We appreciate that the release of information will still be controlled as the Minister will still have to give permission on the advice of a judge regarding the need for the release of such information. Information can still be released for statistical purposes and when needed by the SA Reserve Bank.

The UCDP supports the Bill.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, could you conduct your business in whispers.

Mr N M NENE: Chairperson, hon members, when this House passed an Act on capital gains tax, it was made abundantly clear that there would be subsequent amendments that would enable us to facilitate implementation. The Bill before us today takes us well into the realisation of our dream of a just, fair and equitable tax system.

This Bill introduces amendments to about 14 Acts in total, ranging from the Marketable Securities Act of 1948, the Transfer Duty Act of 1949, the Estate Duty Act of 1955, through to the Revenue Laws Amendment Act of 2001. As we have heard from the previous speakers how wide-ranging these amendments are, let me confine myself to some aspects which I feel require some emphasis.

After considerable and extensive research, some ways and means have been found to streamline and fast-track the processes around dispute resolution. In terms of the proposed amendments, the legislation will allow for court rules to be made on the procedures for purposes of noting an objection and lodging an appeal. These rules will deal with the time-periods within which and the manner in which an objection and appeal must be noted, as well as the processes to be followed up to the hearing of the appeal in the tax court. This legislation will also establish the tax courts which will provide for the Registrar of the Court and grant specific powers to the court to make orders, such as the granting of costs, etc. Currently, the court may not make an order as to costs unless the claim of the commissioner is held to be reasonable or the grounds of appeal are frivolous, or where the decision of the special board is substantially confirmed.

Proposals are made that in addition to the above provisions, the following be added: If the appeal is withdrawn or conceded by one of the parties after the date of hearing has been allocated by the registrar, then costs may be awarded. Also, if the hearing of the appeal is postponed at the request of one of the parties, then again costs may be awarded.

The regulations will provide for a mechanism to be put in place in order to facilitate the settlement of disputes between the taxpayer and the commissioner. This entails the pre-trial meetings which are made possible by the insertion of section 107B in the Income Tax Act of 1962, which empowers the Minister of Finance to prescribe the circumstances under which the commissioner may, for purposes of the settlement of any dispute between the commissioner and a taxpayer, waive a claim against that taxpayer in whole or in part. Disputes in excess of R50 million - a lot of speakers have highlighted this - will be dealt with by an extended Bench of three judges.

The secrecy provisions have also been touched upon, where taxpayers are currently protected by the secrecy provisions that prohibit Sars from disclosing any information that has come to its knowledge, in order to encourage taxpayers to make full disclosure and to protect the individual’s fundamental right to privacy. We have heard how this is being addressed. Sars may disclose information to the Treasury, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Reserve Bank in relation to imports and exports and may also release information to the National Director of Public Prosecutions and the SAPS for law-enforcement purposes. The conditions under which these disclosures may be applied are also explained. It can only be disclosed if the safety of the public and the environment are at risk. Also, the public interest must outweigh any potential harm to the taxpayer concerned.

There is also a programme called Siyakha, which is intended to make Sars more efficient. We have spoken about this programme in this House on a number of occasions. It has already commenced and is registering tremendous success, both in terms of service delivery and efficiency. Some of the transformation in this initiative is meant to improve capacity to administer capital gains tax. Allow me to invite members and society at large to take advantage of Sars’s website and the media advertisements that have been splashed in almost all our print media recently. This has a lot of information on capital gains tax, including how evaluations will work and how this will affect all of us.

Internationally capital gains tax regimes provide for varying degrees of relief in respect of transactions between group companies and founding shareholders and their companies. This is based on the view that where groups or shareholders retain a substantial interest in the asset transferred, it is appropriate to permit a tax-free transfer of assets. This is, unfortunately, commonly abused for tax avoidance purposes. The proposed legislation, therefore, strikes a balance between the breadth and the concessions and the potential for tax avoidance.

Equity has always been at the heart of the introduction of capital gains tax and the consequential amendments only ensure that this ideal is achieved as enshrined in our Constitution and our Freedom Charter. It has also been interesting to note how the opposition has always tried, in this debate and elsewhere, to demonise capital gains tax under a number of pretexts, such as the non-readiness of Sars, the complex nature of the tax and that it will stifle investment. Nothing could be further from the truth. These amendments only serve to finetune that, and we shall continue to review and evaluate these Acts in this Parliament led by the mighty ANC.

I would like to thank Sars’ and the Treasury’s officials under the able leadership of the commissioner and the Ministry, respectively, for the commitment and dedication they have demonstrated in producing this piece of legislation under enormous pressure and time constraints. The ANC supports the Bill and commends all who support it, and urges those that do not, to change their minds. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon members, I think we must start by just reminding ourselves that the area of tax law that we are dealing with is always going to be a complex one. This is not about big policy changes, but about trying to deal with practice. And, in dealing with practice, there are always issues. Those who overcomplicate the practice of tax law are always first in the queue at the committee to lobby the changes not be implemented.

It is a bit disingenuous for Saica to come along and say that we must please not implement those changes when, at the end of the day, it is their members who are at the opposite end of the debate on a day-to-day basis. And so, clearly, it is not a desirable position to bring 190 amendments before a committee, especially at this time of the year, but I really appeal that members of this House should understand that it is an unbelievably complex area, because one is trading off and dealing on a day- to-day basis with the representatives of taxpayers whose one objective is not to pay tax and a receiver charged by law and by this House, in particular, with the task of collecting it. So, it is in that context that these issues arise.

In respect of the changes to CGT, firstly, one must go back to the announcement on 21 February last year, and the very intensive and exhaustive negotiations and participation that took place between then and 1 October. But, as the roll-out started, it became clear that there would have to be some adjustments, some of them at the request of the organisations on the other side of the deals. I think it is correct to say that the changes that we are effecting here are largely textual, refining those that provide certainty and, in one instance certainly, the provision of further relief.

The issue of share values on 1 October was raised and the fact that they were 6% lower than on 1 April. That was only one of the reasons. But it is important that, in the same way as we can see at the other end where there has been manipulation, any manipulation here will be punished.

I am sure that many of the organisations who complained about the difference in evaluation, which clearly was not as bad as they suggested that it would be, would not necessarily tell us what the losses were from their global equity funds, which were substantially more than 6%. People go abroad and act with gay abandon, but when it comes to the taxes that must be paid, certainly it becomes an issue. We know that when they tell us that the gold price was 27% higher on 1 October than it was on 1 April. These are issues and I think they arise in the context of a stand-off between the need to collect taxes and the refusal to pay taxes.

The request raised by the hon Koornhof for simple legislation that is readily available should be considered. The problem is, of course, that what we are talking about is not the big policy issues. The Revenue Law Second Amendment Bill deals, in the main, with the practice issues, and so tends to become dated. But, a simplified and consolidated piece of legislation will be available on the Sars website shortly.

Let me again express appreciation to the members of the Portfolio Committee on Finance. They have worked exceedingly hard this year. They brought this final legislation here to this point, and it is the nature of the beast that there would be disagreements about this. I want to thank them very much for the exceedingly hard work in considering this Bill. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a first time (Democratic Pary dissenting).

                          DISABILITY EQUITY

                             (Amendment)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, before I proceed with the next Order, I want to bring to your attention a publication by the DPSA parliamentary office on the Disability Equity. This is an empowerment tool. It is a book that I would like to commend to you and to your constituencies.

                 REVENUE LAWS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill read a second time.

              UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS BILL
                           (Introduction)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon members, the unemployment … [Interjections.] I think the sound technicians are on strike.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Can you hear the hon the Minister? Not yet?

The MINISTER: Chairperson, I trust that the House can hear me now.

The Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill is the other part of the Insurance Fund Bill. It allows for collections of unemployment insurance contributions, and it is all about trying to improve on the health of the Unemployment Insurance Fund.

The Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill will address the deficiencies that we have noted in collections and payouts and the real difficulties encountered in balancing the books there, but it will address this deficiency by imposing a stricter compliance regime on employers and by transferring the bulk of the collection function to the SA Revenue Service. The link between contributions made by employees and benefits claimed will also assist in detecting defaulting and employers and unwarranted claims. The information required to establish and maintain this link will be collected and held by the Unemployment Insurance Commissioner.

I know that we have the interest of members here, and I am told by certain chairpersons of committees that there is a big party and that I should not be too long. So, let me move the Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I am not sure what you are applauding - whether it is the party or the resolution that was adopted earlier on.

Bill referred for consideration and report to the Portfolio Committee on Labour in accordance with the resolution adopted by the House today. JUDGES’ REMUNERATION AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to.

                              GAS BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to.

                INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to. MERCHANDISE MARKS AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to.

                 LAND AFFAIRS GENERAL AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to.

          MARKETING OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted and Bill agreed to.

                 CULTURAL LAWS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Consideration of Bill)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to.

                      HOURS OF SITTING OF HOUSE

                           (Announcement)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I wish to inform hon members that the House will sit at 14:30 tomorrow.

The House adjourned at 19:04. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill [B 85 - 2001]
     (National Assembly - sec 77) was introduced in the National
     Assembly by the Minister of Finance on 14 November 2001. In
     accordance with a resolution passed by the National Assembly on 14
     November 2001, the Bill has been referred to the Portfolio
     Committee on Labour. The Bill has been referred to the Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule
     160.


 (2)    Bills passed by National Assembly on 14 November 2001: To be
     submitted to President of the Republic for assent:


     (i)     Judges' Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill [B
             83B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Gas Bill [B 18D - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).
     (iii)   Industrial Development Amendment Bill [B 32D - 2001]
             (National Assembly - sec 76).


     (iv)    Merchandise Marks Amendment Bill [B 33D - 2001] (National
             Assembly - sec 75).


     (v)     Land Affairs General Amendment Bill [B 71D - 2001]
             (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (vi)    Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill [B 26D -
             2001] (National Assembly - sec 76).


 (3)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bills, subject to proposed amendments, passed by National Council
     of Provinces on 14 November 2001 and transmitted for consideration
     of Council's proposed amendments:
     (i)     Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65B - 2001] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see
          Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 1282).


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Communications of the National Assembly for a report on the
     amendments proposed by the Council.


    (ii)     Pension Funds Second Amendment Bill [B 41B - 2001]
             (National Assembly - sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see
             Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 1377).


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance
     of the National Assembly for a report on the amendments proposed
     by the Council.


     (iii)   Unemployment Insurance Bill [B 3B - 2001] (National
             Assembly - sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see
             Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 1378).


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Labour of
     the National Assembly for a report on the amendments proposed by
     the Council.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Public Works:

 Written explanation, dated 12 November 2001, from the Department of
 Public Works in terms of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance
 Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999), setting out the reasons why
 the department could not table its Annual Report and Financial
 Statements for 2000-2001 in time:


 Dear Mr Mfenyana


 This Memorandum serves to inform the Parliament that the Department of
 Public Works is unable to table the 2001 annual report as per
 provisions of section 40(1)(d) of the Public Finance Management Act,
 1999 and Regulation 111J of the Public Service Regulations, 1999 (as
 amended).


 National Treasury Guidelines for Annual Reporting (December 2000)
 directs that the annual report should include audit reports. Due to
 outstanding issues, of material nature, the Auditor-General has not
 finalised the Department of Public Works' audit report.


 In view of the above, the tabling of the report during the current
 sitting of Parliament is not possible.


 We hope for the Parliament's indulgence in this regard.


 Regards,


 TAMI SOKUTU
 DIRECTOR-GENERAL

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Trade and
     Industry for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements of Vote 32 - Trade and
     Industry for 2000-2001.


 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the Competition Commission
     for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 150-2001].

1. The Minister of Health:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.691 published in Government Gazette No
     22495 dated 27 July 2001, Regulations relating to additives for
     use in food in general in accordance with good manufacturing
     practice, made in terms of section 15(1) of the Foodstuffs,
     Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of 1972).


 (2)    Government Notice No R.723 published in Government Gazette No
     22549 dated 10 August 2001, Regulations regarding processed
     foodstuffs, made in terms of section 15(1) of the Foodstuffs,
     Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of 1972).


 (3)    Government Notice No R.747 published in Government Gazette No
     22563 dated 17 August 2001, Amendment of regulations governing
     microbiological standards for foodstuffs and related matters, made
     in terms of section 15(1) of the Foodstuffs, Cosmetics and
     Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of 1972).


 (4)    Government Notice No R.911 published in Government Gazette No
     22694 dated 28 September 2001, Regulations governing certain
     solvents in foodstuffs, made in terms of section 15(1) of the
     Foodstuffs, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of
     1972).


 (5)    Government Notice No R.765 published in Government Gazette No
     22584 dated 24 August 2001, Regulations relating to the conduct of
     enquiries into alleged unprofessional conduct, made in terms of
     section 61(1)(h) read with section 61(4) of the Health Professions
     Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).


 (6)    Government Notice No R.887 published in Government Gazette No
     22673 dated 21 September 2001, Regulations relating to the
     suspension of practitioners, made in terms of section 61(1) read
     with section 15B(1)(a) of the Health Professions Act, 1974 (Act No
     56 of 1974).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Report of the Investigating Teams into the Arms Deal.


 (1)    Referred to the -


     (a)     Portfolio Committee on Defence for consideration of
          matters falling within its portfolio, and in particular
          Chapters 3-7 and 10-12, and for report on the relevant
          findings and recommendations;


     (b)     Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration of
          matters falling within its portfolio, and in particular
          Chapter 9, and for report on the relevant findings and
          recommendations;
     (c)     Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
          Development for consideration of matters falling within its
          portfolio, and in particular Chapter 13, and for report on the
          relevant findings and recommendations;


     (d)     Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration
          for consideration of matters falling within its portfolio, and
          in particular Chapter 10, and for report on the relevant
          findings and recommendations;


     (e)     Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for
          consideration of matters falling within its portfolio, and in
          particular Chapter 12, and for report on the relevant findings
          and recommendations;


     (f)     Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration of
          matters within its area of competence and for report on the
          relevant findings and recommendations; and


     (g)     Joint Committee on Ethics and Members' Interests in so far
          as it relates to members of Parliament.


 (2)    The committees to report by not later than 6 December 2001.


 (3)    The report is also forwarded to the Executive for such action as
     necessary.


 The report is also available from Parliament's website
 http://www.parliament.gov.za

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Eleventh Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, dated 31 October 2001:

 The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having heard and considered
 evidence on the Report of the Auditor-General on the financial
 statements of Vote 15 - Health for the year ended 31 March 2000 [RP 124-
 2000], and certain papers referred to it, reports as follows:


 A.     Financial management and PFMA


     1. Fraud Prevention Plan


          The Committee took cognisance of the process to develop a
          Fraud Prevention Plan, and also of the establishment of a
          fraud hotline.


          Nevertheless, the Committee recommends that everything
          possible be done to implement the proposed Fraud Prevention
          Plan by 31 December 2001 and to report back to the Committee
          on the successful implementation of the Fraud Prevention Plan.




     2. Audit Committee


          The Committee took note that the Audit Committee is fully
          functioning in the Department.


          The Committee, having been made aware of the investigation
          into the UNISA Board, recommends that the Department consider
          the appropriateness of members of the Audit Committee when the
          membership of the Audit Committee is reviewed during 2002.


     3. Internal audit


          The Committee noted that, after revision of the Internal Audit
          structure, the staff establishment of the Internal Audit Unit
          comprised of 13 posts, of which only five are filled at
          present. Furthermore, the Committee also took note that the
          Head of the Internal Audit Unit of the Department is involved
          in the Internal Audit Unit of the Department of Public Service
          and Administration and in a project with the Internal Audit
          Sections of all other government departments and provinces.


          It came to the attention of the Committee that the Internal
          Audit Unit lacked capacity and that the Department's major
          problem is the recruitment of staff. Whilst supporting the
          notion of best practice sharing between departments, the
          Committee wishes to register that this practice should not be
          allowed to impact on the effectiveness of the principal
          department.


          The Committee further took note of the Accounting Officer's
          concern about the limited financial management expertise
          available in the public sector. Given the implementation of
          the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA), this expertise is
          becoming available only at a premium that may not be
          affordable in terms of the public sector salary scales.


          The Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer:


          (a) Persevere with the actions aimed at improved financial
              management, specifically in bringing the Internal Audit
              Component up to full strength and ensuring continuation
              of professional training for relevant staff.


              The Accounting Officer should seek advice from the
              Monitoring Unit: Internal Audit and Audit Committees,
              established within the Office of the Accountant-General,
              on the adequacy of the staffing of the Department's
              Internal Audit Unit in terms of generally accepted
              benchmarks, and should report to the Committee in this
              regard by 31 December 2001.


          (b) Ensure that staff of the Internal Audit Unit be utilised
              only at other departments if there is no lack of capacity
              in their own auditing environment, both in respect of
              auditing and supervision.


     4. Asset management


          After considering evidence presented by the Department, the
          Committee took cognisance of the fact that the National
          Treasury is reviewing the current systems to address the needs
          of departments.


          The Committee therefore recommends that the National Treasury
          increase resources to speed up the process and that the
          Department of Health implement interim measures to improve the
          other control measures.


 B.     Sarafina II


     The issue has taken a long time to be satisfactorily resolved - it
     started in 1995. However, it is the Committee's view that
     appropriate measures should be taken to bring this issue to a
     close.


     After giving due consideration to all the information on the
     matter regarding the unauthorised expenditure emanating from the
     Sarafina II saga, as well as considering a comprehensive report
     from the Accounting Officer, as requested during the hearing of 29
     August 2001, and consulting with the Parliamentary Law Advisers,
     the Committee wish to note the following:


     1. From the unauthorised amount of R10 519 202,30 that was paid,
          an amount of R2 211 138,79 was recovered and a further amount
          of R8 308 063,51 remains outstanding.


     2. As some form of services were rendered, it is important to
          determine the approximate amount which should be regarded as
          either fruitless or wasteful expenditure and which has to be
          recovered.


     3. The findings of all the investigations indicate a serious lack
          of financial discipline and control, amounting to negligence,
          on the part of the two individuals concerned.


     4. Action could have been taken by the Accounting Officer to
          prevent, or at least reduce, the extent of the unauthorised
          expenditure.


     5. Until the date of adoption of this Report, an amount of R576
          595,59 has already been spent on legal costs in an attempt to
          recover the loss suffered by the State.


     6. Work conducted by investigating agencies such as the Public
          Protector, the KPMG Forensic Auditors and the Special
          Investigating Unit was of great help in identifying serious
          irregularities and unauthorised expenditure.


     7. Sufficient measures and actions were not taken by the
          Department to recover the money from the two individuals
          concerned.


     8. Directors-General are appointed as accounting officers, and as
          such have a very specific and direct responsibility to act as
          custodian of tax-payers' money.
     9. Parliament is tasked with the responsibility to authorise
          unauthorised expenditure if sufficient grounds exist and
          evidence indicates that the circumstances which gave rise to
          the unauthorised expenditure, were both urgent and
          unavoidable.


     10.     The asset base of those responsible for the expenditure
          might be insufficient to recover the full amount lost.


     11.     In the opinion of the Parliamentary Law Advisers, grounds
          exist, on the merits, to obtain a judgement against the
          individuals responsible for the unauthorised expenditure.


     It is the Committee's firm belief that Parliament does not only
     have a mandate to oversee financial management compliance, but
     must be seen to be guarding the best interest of tax-payers and
     the most effective and efficient use of limited state resources.


     The Committee therefore recommends that:


     (a)     The Department immediately proceed with legal steps with
          the objective of securing judgement against the individuals
          concerned.


     (b)     The type of judgement provide the State with an extended
          period of right to recover the money from the individuals
          concerned, as was the case with the GCIS recently.


     (c)     The State attorneys endavour to secure a cost judgement.


     (d)     The Department proceed with the above action within the
          shortest possible timeframe,and report back to the Committee
          by notlater than the end of February 2002.
 C.     Protein Energy Malnutrition Scheme


     The Department has been involved in various projects to alleviate
     malnutrition and improve nutrition among South African children
     since 1991. The Auditor-General has been reporting on weaknesses
     in the programmes since 1994. Problems identified included the
     following:


     1. A lack of supporting vouchers.


     2. Inadequate monitoring procedures.


     3. Failure to comply with standards prescribed by the Department.


     On 1 August 1995 the President appointed a Commission of Inquiry
     into the Protein Energy Malnutrition Scheme. The Commission
     consisted of three persons and was appointed specifically to look
     into the allocation of contracts, expenditure on contracts and the
     supervision of the Protein Energy Malnutrition and other related
     schemes. The Committee is, however, disturbed about the costs
     incurred in respect of the Commission that amounted to R9 156 377
     as at 31 March 2000, as well as the failure of the Department's
     adherence to the recommendations of the Commission.


     Having received the "Summary of the report by the Commission of
     Inquiry into the Protein Energy Malnutrition Scheme and other
     Nutrition Programmes and Feeding Schemes administered by the
     National Department of Health", and given its awareness of
     problems experienced currently with the implementation of
     nutrition schemes, the Committee recommends that it be informed
     about the implementation of the recommendations made by the
     Commission with regard to:


     (a)     The efficient handling of all matters of fraud or
          mismanagement in each province.
     (b)     The blacklisting of individuals who were incriminated in
          the programmes and a register to be kept preventing them from
          conducting business with any programme in any province.


     (c)     Programmes on strengthening human and institutional
          capacity to reduce the unacceptably high levels of childhood
          malnutrition in South Africa.


     The Committee requests a report on these matters by the end of
     January 2002.


 Report to be considered.

1. Twelfth Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, dated 31 October 2001:

 The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having heard and considered
 evidence on the Reports of the Auditor-General on the financial
 statements of Vote 37 - Welfare for the year ended 31 March 1999 [RP
 161-99] and Vote 36 - Welfare for the year ended 31 March 2000 [RP 145-
 2000], and certain papers referred to it, reports as follows:


 A.     Unauthorised expenditure


     1. 1998-99 financial year, R173 551,50


          Unauthorised expenditure amounting to R173 551,50 was incurred
          during the 1998-99 financial year, and comprises the
          following:


          (a) An amount of R135 859,50 was paid during August 1998 to a
              company for a radio advertising campaign to introduce the
              new Child Support Grant without adhering to tender
              procedures.


          (b) An amount of R37 692 was paid for the extension of the
              contract, without prior approval from the State Tender
              Board, for a consultant to assist the Department with the
              re-registration and clean-up process with regard to the
              Social Security function.


     2. 1999-2000 financial year, R223 969


          Unauthorised expenditure totaling R223 969 was incurred and
          comprises the following:


          (a) An amount of R187 375 was paid from donor funding in
              respect of contracts concluded with individuals from non-
              governmental organisations, who were involved in
              developing quality assurance pilot projects within
              residential care facilities during the period January to
              December 1999. Proper tender procedures had not been
              followed and the State Tender Board declined a request
              for ex post facto approval.
          (b) An amount of R36 594 was paid for catering services at the
              National Conference on Victim Empowerment. Although the
              State Tender Board granted ex post facto approval for the
              expenditure, proper departmental procedures had not been
              followed.


          Although the Committee is satisfied with the explanations
          provided by the Accounting Officer regarding each instance of
          unauthorised expenditure reported and the efforts of the
          Department to train staff to deal with matters according to
          the correct procurement procedures, the Committee express its
          dissatisfaction at the Department's disregard for State Tender
          Board directives. It is unacceptable that rules and
          regulations are contravened, even in cases where the projects
          achieve a desirable objective.


          In expressing the above sentiments, the Committee notes that
          with regard to the unauthorised expenditure for the years
          mentioned, the following issues need to be borne in mind:


          *Technical non-compliance.


          *Services/goods were rendered/received.


          *Value for money was received.


          *The State suffered no loss.


          The Committee therefore recommends that the unauthorised
          expenditure for the 1998-99 financial year (R173 551,50) and
          for the 1999-2000 financial year (R223 969) be authorised by
          Parliament.


 B.     Financial management


     The Committee wishes to commend the Department on the drastic and
     dramatic improvement in the general and financial management of
     the Department.


     Nevertheless, the Committee wishes to report on the following
     matters dealt with during the hearing, which the Accounting
     Officer should attend to:


     1. Fraud Prevention Plan


          The Committee took note that the policy document was submitted
          to the Audit Committee during May 2001 and that the Department
          is awaiting their comment.


          It is recommended that the Department report back to the
          Committee by 31 December 2001 on comments by the Audit
          Committee and implementation of the Fraud Prevention Plan.


     2. Risk assessment


          The Committee took note that consultants were contracted
          during September 2000, as part of the existing Financial
          Management Expert Contract, to conduct a risk assessment for
          the Department.


          The Committee recommends that a comprehensive report be
          submitted to it by 31 December 2001 on the outcomes of the
          risk assessment and the measures implemented.


     3. Financial Management Expert Contract


          The Committee is encouraged by the establishment of the
          Steering Committee to oversee the contract, and by the fact
          that the consultants have to report every six weeks on
          progress made. The Committee also noted the measures already
          implemented on national as well as provincial level on
          recommendations by the consultants.
          However, the Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer
          ensure that:


          (a) The contract be revised according to the requirements of
              the PFMA.


          (b) The requirements regarding the skills transfer are adhered
              to.


          (c) The matter regarding the capacity constraints in the
              provinces, as a matter of urgency, be addressed to
              prevent the undermining of the effectiveness of the
              contract.


          (d) The process and progress made by the consultants in the
              Western Cape be properly monitored and that the norms and
              standards, as set by the national department, be adhered
              to.


 C.     Asset management


     The Committee took note that the Department only implemented the
     LOGIS system during May 2000, and is in the process of finalising
     specification for the appointment of a service provider to number
     all individual assets of the Department with item control numbers.
     The Committee would like to bring to the attention of the
     Accounting Officer that, since the implementation of the PFMA, the
     responsibility, should there be any deficits or surplus stock, is
     that of the Accounting Officer.


     The Committee therefore recommends that:


     1. The Accounting Officer adhere to section 38(1)(d) of the PFMA
          and Treasury Regulation 10.1.


     2. A comprehensive report be submitted to the Committee by the end
          of the 2001-02 financial year on the progress made with regard
          to the safeguarding of all departmental assets.


 D.     Unspent funds


     With regard to the unspent funds, the Committee notes the
     following:


     1. During the 1998-99 financial year, the overall underspending in
          the Department was 78,5% and underspending regarding poverty
          relief funds, was 97%.


     2. During the 1999-2000 financial year, the overall underspending
          in the Department was 24,1% and underspending regarding
          poverty relief funds, was 15,3%.


     Having noted this, the Committee is acknowledging the improvement
     in the ability of the Department to spend the budgeted amount in
     the financial year. However, the Committee remains concerned
     whether the money actually reaches the intended beneficiaries and
     that value for money is received.


     The Committee further took note that the Accounting Officer has
     recognised that it is critical to exercise appropriate control
     over these payments and that such control should not be obviated
     by the autonomy of the receiving institutions.


     The Committee therefore recommends that:


     (a)     The need for training in financial management and project
          management with communities be addressed as a matter of
          urgency.


     (b)     The envisaged monitoring system be put in place and that
          the process of evaluation include mechanisms to assess whether
          value for money is received from the funds made available for
          poverty relief.
     (c)     A comprehensive report be submitted to the Committee by
          the end of the 2001-02 financial year on the matters raised in
          the above paragraphs.


 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs on Illegal Zimbabwean farm labour in Soutpansberg, dated 13 November 2001:

 1.     A delegation of the Committee undertook an oversight visit to
     the Soutpansberg agricultural area on Monday, 5 November 2001. The
     delegation, under the leadership of Mr A Mokoena (ANC), included
     Chief K W Morwamoche (ANC), Mr W M Skhosana (ANC), Mr M M Chikane
     (ANC), Mr G A J Grobler (DP), Prince N E Zulu (IFP) and Mr J
     Vermeulen (Committee Secretary).


 2.     The aim of the visit was to get a better understanding, with a
     view to offer possible solutions to the problem of illegal
     Zimbabwean labourers working on farms in the area between the
     Limpopo River and the Soutpansberg.


 3.     On Monday, 5 November, the delegation met with the following
     members of the Soutpansberg District Agricultural Union: Mr
     Joubert, Mr Klaf, Mr Langley, Mr Meiring, Mr Combrink, Mr Vos and
     Mr Hoffman. Mr M V Mabunda: Regional Representative: Home Affairs
     in the Northern Province, chaired the meeting.


 4.     The delegation had very open and fruitful discussions with the
     farmers, who handed our delegation a memorandum. The main points
     were:


     (a)     The farmers had the impression that there was an implicit
          agreement between the government and the Soutpansberg District
          Agricultural Union to allow Zimbabwean workers in a controlled
          way to work on farms in the area, because of the fact that,
          owing to the demographics of the population in the area, there
          are no South Africans to work on the farms.


     (b)     At the end of 1999, a moratorium was placed on the renewal
          and granting of permits to Zimbabwean labourers. This
          signalled the start of problems between the farmers and the
          government.


     (c)     The assumption by the Department of Labour that there are
          enough local people who would like to work on the farms, has
          never been tested in practice.


     (d)     Most attempts by farmers to secure local labour was costly
          and unsuccessful. Local labour should be attainable and
          sustainable, and farmers must be able to count on them. Until
          now, this has not been the case, as especially local women
          traditionally work their own crops in respect of subsistence
          farming. The women also find it difficult to be away from home
          for long periods of time, as they must raise their children.


     (e)     The Soutpansberg District Agricultural Union recorded its
          willingness to form part of a committee to investigate real
          solutions to the problems.


 5.     The Committee recommends that a task team comprising organised
     agriculture, the Department of Labour, the Department of Home
     Affairs, the Security Forces, organised labour, local
     municipalities, district councils and the Provincial Government be
     established to find common solutions to farm labour crises in the
     area north of the Soutpansberg and south of the Zimbabwe border.


 6.     The Committee will exercise oversight over the entire process.
 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education on Study Tour to Cuba, dated 6 November 2001:

 A.     Introduction


     A delegation of the Portfolio Committee on Education undertook a
     study tour to Cuba from 6 to 16 July 2001, with the following
     mandate:


     1. Objectives of tour


          In a meeting on 3 April 2001, the Committee unanimously agreed
          that a multiparty delegation undertake a study visit to Cuba,
          with the following objectives:


          (a) To investigate factors that allow the successful
              implementation of already developed education policies in
              manners that ensure success at institutions on the ground
              and later in the workplace and in the country's economy.


          (b) To identify manners in which the two countries can
              overcome the challenges that globalisation brings to
              their common ideological and economic goals.


          The visit to Cuba was not only one that intended to observe
          and learn from one's hosts, but also to engage with them about
          problems faced during the incredibly difficult and complex
          phases of implementing transformative policies.


     2. Specific interest


          As far as the development of implementable transformative
          policies is concerned, Cuba stands out above the rest of the
          world. It has thus been earmarked by the Committee as the best
          example of how well implemented transformative education
          policies can ensure that a poor or developing country can make
          an educational, technological and scientific impact that
          places it on an equal or, in some respects, higher level than
          most advanced countries of the world, despite the problems
          that globalisation may pose to it.


          The Committee was aware that such a visit would not only be in
          line with the existing "Agreement of Educational Collaboration
          between the Ministries of Education", signed in Havana on 8
          April 1997, but intended to strengthen that bilateral link
          with our Cuban counterparts. Again, the Committee needed to
          observe what it is that enables higher participation rates for
          all learners in Cuba and hasten to make our Adult Basic
          Education, Early Childhood and literacy initiatives a reality
          in South Africa through serious scrutiny of its
          implementation.


          The agreements signed after the first democratic election in
          1994 included:


          (a) The Declaration of Intent on Co-operation in Health: 463
              medical doctors from Cuba have since been assigned to
              work in the most rural and previously unserviced areas.
              About 185 students are currently studying in Cuba.


          (b) An announcement made by the Minister of Education in April
              2001, that Cuba would be sending their teachers to South
              Africa to help the country in the areas of mathematics,
              science and technology.


     3. Delegation
          The multiparty delegation, under the leadership of the
          Chairperson, Prof S M Mayatula (ANC), included Ms P K
          Mothoagae (ANC), Mr S B Ntuli (ANC), Ms D G Nhlengethwa (ANC),
          Mr A M Mpontshane (IFP), Mr R S Ntuli (DP) and Ms N C Manjezi
          (Committee Secretary).


          An attempt was made to obtain a valued balanced view, with
          inputs from various sources, like the Minister of Education,
          Minister of Higher Education, Minister of Foreign Relations,
          senior officials from the university sector, executive
          management, directors in various institutions of higher
          learning and teachers.


          On arrival on 7 July 2001 at Jose Marti International Airport
          in Havana, the delegation was warmly welcomed by Ms A Hanslop
          (First Secretary) and Ms P Rapudi (Administrative Attaché)
          from the South African Embassy.


 B.     Education system in Cuba


     The key element identified by our "Tirisano" policy document is
     the eradication of illiteracy. The success of Cuba is lauded
     worldwide as an incredible phenomenon - the education system forms
     the foundation on which its success in science, technology and
     medical education is based. After its revolution, 50% of Cuba's
     children did not attend school; 72% of the 13- to 19-year-olds did
     not reach intermediate levels of schooling, and there were more
     than one million people who were illiterate, In the mid-1990s
     there were 241 000 illiterates out of a population of 11 million.


     Right through all phases of its education system, Cuba has placed
     a high value on relating study and work. In a classically Marxist
     formulation of praxis, education emphasises the holistic
     development of the "new human being" to be achieved by relating
     study and work through lifelong education programmes that involve
     students, youth in working and workers in study and reflection.


     Cuba's education system has goals directly related to the economic
     development of the nation. The education system was called upon to
     prepare a technically proficient population capable of drastically
     altering the traditionally hostile attitudes toward science,
     technology and modern agricultural methods. They have successfully
     implemented a policy to ensure that school management is guided by
     the principle that education is everybody's responsibility, and
     participation is an important means of addressing problems of the
     school. They strongly believe in their slogans "Read and write to
     defend the revolution" and "We won't tell you to believe but we
     will tell you to learn".


     Although Cuba is one of the poorest countries in Latin-America, it
     is accredited for its high literacy around the world. Despite
     crippling trade embargoes imposed by the USA, the country has
     managed to keep the illiteracy rate at very low levels.


     Students receive education, food, learner support materials,
     clothing and transport free of charge. At university level
     students receive an additional allowance for personal expenditure.


     The results of mathematics and science of the latest UNESCO
     comparison of mathematics and language test scores in Latin-
     America found Cuba's third grades to have an average of 83,1% in
     respect of mathematics and 87,4% in respect of the language
     examinations, compared with the next highest national scores
     (Argentina), at 47,3% and 60,7 in respect of the same
     examinations, respectively. Central to the country's aim to ensure
     the African Renaissance is policy guidelines aimed at improving
     achievements at schools and universities in mathematics, science
     and technology.


     Science and technology are highly prized in Cuba today. Due to its
     high quality of medical services, neighbouring countries (like the
     Dominican Republic) are travelling to Cuba for medical treatment
     or surgery. This also bears testament to the achievement of its
     higher education sector.


     University majors in the sciences, including the health sciences,
     require the most competitive examination scores for entering new
     students. This is consistent with aims set out in South African
     education legislation and policies. The importance of mathematics
     teaching as a prerequisite to the advanced study of science and
     technology cannot be overstated as forming the backbone of Cuba's
     excellent record in the medical, veterinary and pharmaceutical
     fields.


 C.     Visit to Museum of Literacy Campaign - official view by
     Professor of History, Prof L Campos


     Despite doubts cast by numerous personalities and organisations
     abroad, the Revolutionary Government embarked on campaigns to
     eradicate illiteracy in one year: From January to December 1961.
     In January 1961, a call was made to the young population and
     workers to learn to read and write.


     When Pres Fidel Castro made his call in the UN headquarters, they
     were prepared to eradicate illiteracy. Fidel Castro wrote a
     manifesto, specifying all the programmes and problems in
     education, including housing and unemployment, as a great number
     of children did not attend school. Private teaching and education
     was made compulsory for all.


     When the campaign ended on 22 December 1961, they called for
     education for workers in Cuba.


     Of a population of seven million, approximately 100 000 teachers,
     the youngest seven years old, volunteered to go to all corners of
     the island to teach people to read and write as most illiterates
     were from the rural areas. The basic principle was to be a
     volunteer, to teach or to learn voluntarily, and everything was
     done for free. Most teachers had to be trained, because the
     majority of them were not really teachers. Basic education was up
     to Grade 9.


     There were counter-revolutionary forces, and some teachers were
     killed, but this did not deter the Cubans, and campaigns continued
     as planned.


     The voluntary teachers were organised in detachments, which later
     became known as the "Conrado Bernitez" Brigades, in honour of the
     youngest teacher (a seven-year-old), who had been assassinated by
     counter-revolutionary bandits. These brigades were with another
     120 000 ordinary Cubans and 12 700 young workers, who also
     volunteered to go and teach - an educational force that was
     trained and pedagogically supervised by close to 35 000 certified
     teachers. This singular effort mobilised nearly 300 000 people.


     The museum is the largest in Cuba. Today, they are celebrating 40
     years of country literacy. If a person does not have Computer
     Sscience, then according to Pres Fidel Castro he or she is
     illiterate.


     The mission of the voluntary teachers demanded a great deal of
     understanding, sacrifice, will-power and resistance, both from
     young educators and from their parents. Many of the adolescents
     who took part in the campaigning had never been away from their
     homes. Now they found themselves living in remote rural areas,
     having to spend the whole year among people they did not know and
     who generally had lifestyles and customs different from theirs.
     They had to share the poverty in which many of their hosts lived,
     and in some cases helped them, after class, with the daily work.


     Adults provided labour during the day and went to school in the
     evening. Children attended during the day.


     Although there was a huge reaction from people joining the
     campaign, unions played a very vital role.


     Today, one per cent of illiterate people in Cuba are those who did
     not learn during the campaign.


     They have educational programmes broadcast on television - Cuban
     History, Cuban Geography, Science, Spanish, etc, and children are
     always encouraged to watch these exciting programmes.


     Support


     During the year of the campaign, there was solidarity and great
     help from the Chinese and German governments, and the Cuban people
     gave huge support. The German government donated spectacles to
     those with eye problems, and those needing health care were
     identified. The Chinese government contributed paraffin lamps for
     evening classes, as there was no electricity then. They also
     received support from the Balkan States (human and material
     resources). This showed that Cuba was not alone.
     They also received students from different countries like Spain,
     France and Russia, to teach in Cuba, although Cuba was regarded as
     a socialist country.


     Tour around museum


     At the main entrance there is a big picture of Commander-in-Chief
     Fidel Castro, taken in 1960 at the headquarters of the UN. The
     delegation also saw documents, letters and personal belongings of
     the teachers who were participants during the campaign (letters
     are kept for records and research to help children who want to be
     teachers); a photo, identity document and a shirt of the seven-
     year-old assassinated during the campaign; letters which were sent
     to Pres Fidel Castro, literature (samples of learner curricula,
     guides and letters to the President, thanking him for the
     opportunity to read and write).


 D.     Visit to School for Disabled Children, "Abel Santamaria" -
     official view by Director of School, Ms L D Carballo Gonzalez


     There are 427 special schools in Cuba, 14 schools for deaf
     children, schools for those with impaired hearing, schools for
     retarded children and one school for handicapped children. All
     these schools are transit schools, except the one for retarded
     children. This was the only school until 1990, and at present
     there are 14 more of them in different provinces.


     The school is a brick structure, with 69 teachers and 220
     students. Before the revolution, they had to admit these disabled
     students up to the age of 33 years, but now they have a limited
     average of 13 years of age. All teachers are college graduates,
     and eight of them have Masters Degrees in Education. They are all
     trained in the teaching methods they should use. Teachers in the
     public schools are not trained for special education.


     The basic aim of the school is to give diagnostic therapy in
     preparation for entry in ordinary schools. Special schools are
     aimed to train teachers to achieve social integration for disabled
     people. Although the integration theory is handled worldwide,
     children at these schools need specialised help. These schools
     need an integral teacher who can use sign language and apply
     psychology when encountering behavioural problems.


     The Department of Health's Diagnosis Team is composed of
     dieticians, psychologists, physicians assessing learners for
     albinism and determining extent of deafness, blindness, physical
     disability and make recommendations.


     They diagnose every child's achievements, the community in which
     the child lives, the families from which the child comes, and
     family support for the development of their children.
     Psychologists and language therapists do all the work, as well as
     family doctors trained in that field.


     In the school they diagnose the learning process and problems
     during the learning process, as the parents should know the
     characteristics of their children's disabilities. If the
     retardedness is severe, they receive family protection and social
     security.


     There is great support from parents in this process - they teach
     them to learn and communicate with them in their communities. They
     also communicate with hospitals to educate parents and to give
     proper care for those at home unable to attend school.


     Once they complete special education, they are transferred to
     ordinary schools, but this depends on the nature of the
     disability, and some are kept back until ready for university.
     They can go to secondary schools and universities and pursue
     technical careers. At present, five of their students are studying
     at Havana University, pursuing a career in psychology.


     Learner material used to be bought overseas and was very
     expensive, but now Cuba is producing them locally at a cheaper
     price. Students are given these educational learning materials
     free of charge at all levels, including special schools. Computer
     literacy is a high priority, as they are given computer lessons.


     Although they have difficulty in teaching blind and deaf students,
     they conduct special physical rehabilitation, language therapy,
     technological and physical programmes as well as psychological
     treatment. Most of them are involved in sport like swimming, chess
     and golf for the blind.


     In Cuba, all the children have the right to education, and all
     parents want their children to be educated. It is against the law
     not to send children with special needs to school. Parents are
     fined if found guilty by the Council of Education of the People's
     Power or the Police.


     Tour around school


     The delegation was given an opportunity to tour the school to see
     the classrooms for blind children, where there are brail material
     manufactured in Cuba.


 E.     Meeting with Commission on Education, Science and Culture (or
     People's Power National Assembly) - official view by Chairperson
     of Commission, Hon L C Fabelo


     The People's Power National Assembly is the supreme body of State
     power, and it embodies and expresses the sovereign will of the
     people at large. It is the only body with constitutional and
     legislative powers in the Republic. The unicameral Parliament of
     Cuba is composed of 601 deputies, directly elected for a term of
     five years.


     Among its powers is the power to pass partial amendments to the
     Constitution of the Republic; pass, change or repeal laws; revoke
     Decree Laws that have been passed by the Council of State; adopt
     national economic and social development plans and the State
     budget; declare a state of war in case of military aggression and
     approve peace treaties; appoint the Council of Ministers; elect
     the Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justices and other Justices of
     the People's Supreme Court and the Attorneys-General of the
     Republic.


     Workings commissions of People's Power National Assembly


     The National Assembly creates working commissions that work all
     year round and are made up of deputies and whose function is to
     assist it with the supervision of State and government bodies;
     with the writing of draft law agreements and with taking decisions
     on the drafts that are put for their consideration, as well as
     doing the studies they are commissioned to undertake.


     Furthermore, the Assembly can create temporary commissions, taking
     into account the specific interests in various spheres of the
     country's social and economic life.


     The Commission on Education, Science and Culture is constituted by
     education, arts, science and culture, and a range of professors
     (teachers) are also represented in the Commission. It sits twice a
     year and plays a vital role in respect of the functions of the
     Assembly. Every year, this Commission plans activities to fulfil
     its objectives; suggests budgets and implements its work and
     finances; looks at legislation and take decisions on all bodies of
     the old Commission. They also invite the Ministers of Economic
     Planning and Finance to look at the impact of the Budget on the
     National Assembly.


     They also have public hearings and involve different sectors to
     discuss issues and to carry out tasks and define legislation.


     Cubans do not claim to have achieved a level of democratic
     development that cannot be surpassed. On the contrary, various
     important innovations have been introduced to the system, to its
     methods and mechanisms, and they are making constant efforts to
     improve it. Achieving full, true and systematic participation by
     the people in the management and control of society - which is the
     essence of democracy - is a goal which should be strived for
     incessantly.


     Status of Commission


     The Deputies and members of the Commission are elected candidates
     who must obtain more than 50% of the valid votes. At present there
     are 601 deputies elected in their territories. The National
     Assembly elects 31 Council of State members and the Presidency of
     the Assembly. After the election, they propose the committees, who
     all consist of elected deputies (in the South African context,
     Members of Parliament), and the committees elect specialists to
     conduct the work.


     Candidacy Commission


     As appointed at national, provincial and municipal level, the
     Candidacy Commission have the function of preparing and presenting
     the draft of candidates for delegates to the provincial assemblies
     and for deputies to the National Assembly, as well as those who
     will hold posts they are elected for by provincial and municipal
     assemblies.


     In all cases, the commissions are made up of representatives from
     social organisations - workers, peasants, students, women's
     organisations - and they are appointed by these organiaations at
     the request of the relevant election commissions. The
     representative of the National Trade Union of Cuba always chairs
     them.


     Relationship of Commission with Ministry of Education


     The Ministry of Education and Ministry of Higher Education are
     part of the government of the Republic of Cuba. Between the
     sessions, the Council of State approves the preliminary laws. The
     Council of State and the People's Power National Assembly agree to
     the education laws. Technical work is done by the Commission or
     Ministry and passed by the National Assembly.


     All education levels are financed by the State. Higher education
     conducts research activities in State companies, and companies
     finance those activities. Human Resources have the power to create
     a great labour force in the frontier.


     National budget


     Because of the economic situation in Cuba, 22% to 25% is allocated
     to education. 40% of the budget is allocated to senior high school
     and the rest to technical and higher education.


     Teacher-Pupil ratio


     At present the teacher-pupil ratio is 29:1; the Ministry of
     Education hopes to have 20:1 and in high school less than 30:1 per
     classroom. In the rural areas there are 3 000 schools with only 50
     students each and 38 schools with one student and one teacher
     each. They provide the classroom, blackboard and teacher in all
     rural areas.


     Official view by Ms M Josefa Mederos and Mr P Berguez


     All provinces have deputies to the committees to control the
     duties under their power. They visit different research
     institutions and cultural centres and exchange workers in these
     centres; an entire population is taken care of by these centres.
     They exchange deputies in those territories so that they can be
     aware of the interests of the population.


     Once a year, they visit the most remote areas, and problems in
     those areas are discussed with the Ministries. They also visit
     home-based schooling, where you find one teacher and one student.
     These visits are regarded as important. Education reaches every
     place in the country, and this work has been done in Cuba for 40
     years.


     Official view by Ms M Torres


     The work of the Commission is supervised at all times, taking care
     of all activities at grassroots and municipal level. Main
     activities include popular control, and to know the opinion of the
     citizens relating to education, sport and culture.


     They also visit the different councils, and control strategic
     objectives of the city, taking care of all the activities in
     education, culture and sport - researchers are attached to those
     activities. Timeous feedback is received from the population on
     those activities.
 F.     Visit to "Republic of Angola" Senior High School - official view
     by Director, Mr J R Cucelo


     This is a boarding school which was officially opened in 1997 and
     offers Grade 10 to 12. There are 574 students and 32 teachers.
     More than 97% of the students come from the municipality in
     Havana, with one student from Angola. The students work in
     brigades, and education is based on equity and "revolutionary".
     The school management has rules and students keep a schedule in
     respect of their work at all times.


     Sport and cultural programmes are included in their curriculum.
     They also have labour training programmes, and they link them with
     agricultural activities, depending on the potential, which is
     linked to the fieldwork.


     Teaching the students Cuban history and other political events are
     regarded as very important in order to support their knowledge
     nationally and internationally.


     Streams of subjects offered


     They have a unique education system - General Science with three
     Departments: Department of Humanities - Ideology, Marxism and
     Socialism; Department of Exact Science - History, Biology and
     Geography; Department of Natural Sciences - Mathematics, Physics
     and Biology. The curriculum is divided into these three main
     streams.


     Board of Directors


     Seven teachers and the Parents Board, which participates in all
     school activities, represent the Board of Directors. They meet
     monthly to debate/discuss the interests and problems of the school
     and propose methods of solving the problems.


     There are no cases of severe illnesses (like HIV/AIDS) among the
     student population. There are no dropouts; they work with them to
     be at the school, not to drop out.


     Youth Brigade


     Learners work during school holidays and are given an incentive to
     do that. The school has a farm attached to it for food production,
     and access is given to neighbouring schools and co-operatives.


     As their education system is based on "work and study", students
     work during the school holidays in the nearest agricultural areas
     in different entities that serve the consumption of the school.
     They are paid for work they do during their school holidays. The
     entire production comes to the school, none is sent to the market.
     If there is over-supply, they give it to the nearby schools.


     The Young Communist League agreed to this idea.


     System of examination


     They plan their system of examination, and it depends on the
     programme given to each subject. All subjects are divided into two
     semesters. In the semesters, they take partial control of
     examination and evaluate students continuously.


     For entry at university, each student must pass an aptitude test,
     depending on the specialty he or she selects. Universities offer a
     number of studies due according to their capacity. Mathematics,
     Spanish and History are compulsory.


     Role of student representative on management of school


     The student representatives represent the students' needs,
     problems, political and cultural activities to the management
     board of the school.


     They also represent students at grassroots, municipal and
     provincial level. They have the voice and vote in the National
     Assembly of Students.


     In the Municipal Assembly, there is a committee that directly
     deals with all the schools' problems. This committee is in charge
     of visiting schools, making suggestions to teachers and presenting
     reports to the municipality.


     Failure rate


     The failure rate is minimal in Grade 12, and if they fail, they
     can repeat their grades in the same school.


 G.     Visit to Nursery School "Semillitas del 2000" - official view by
     Director, Mrs M C C Tabares and Subdirector, Mr T D Denis


     On arrival, the three-year-old drum majorettes warmly welcomed the
     delegation.


     This municipality nursery school is a formal centre and has 14
     teachers and 115 children, ranging from less than one to four
     years old.


     The highly secured double-storey infrastructure used to be a
     house, and it was converted to a nursery school.


     They are taken care of by well-trained workers and college
     graduates. They have two family doctors and two nurses who are at
     all times present at the nursery school and diagnose any illness.
     If a child is sick, he or she is taken to hospital for proper
     treatment.


     Formal schooling starts when a child is five years old. Those
     children who are not taken care of in the nursery are looked after
     in their homes.


     It operates from Monday to Friday, from 06:00 to 18:00. They have
     programmes and activities on a daily basis, and parents access
     these programmes at any given time. As the child grows older, the
     activities become more complex. The minimum class group is 24 (for
     one-year-olds), and the largest group is 36.


     The relationship between parents, families and the nursery
     management is good.


 H.     Visit to Nursery School of Jesus Menendez Co-operatives -
     official view by pre-school teacher, Ms O Miranda
     This is an informal centre, and was donated by a farmer.


     Ms Olga Miranda is a volunteer teacher who takes care of the pre-
     school children in this rural community, the children ranging from
     two to four years. Because of her love for the children, she
     offers her services without any salary. The pre-school children in
     this community do not attend day-care centers in the cities; they
     train non-working mothers and relatives how to work with children.


     As all mothers are unemployed, they meet twice a week and spend
     time to train them in respect of all the preliminary skills. As
     they come twice a week, they are given tasks to do at home, on
     which they must then give feedback.


     The parents bring their children to orientate them on the work
     when they are at home. There is great support from these non-
     working mothers, as they do great work in helping and assisting
     the teachers to do all the activities relating to teaching and
     learning.


     There are 18 children and one teacher, who always work with the
     mothers. She teaches them skills to work with their families.


     Although children in this pre-school receive non-formal education,
     they have the same educational status and training programmes as
     those in the day-care centres. The government monitors all these
     activities.


 I.     Visit to Ministry of Higher Education - official view by
     Minister of Higher Education, Hon Dr Fernando Vecino Alegret


     Higher Education in Cuba: Experiences, Challenges and Perspectives


     The education system in Cuba has two different Ministries, headed
     by the Minister of Education, Hon I Gomez, and the Minister of
     Higher Education, Dr Fernando Vecino Alegret, respectively.


     There are 52 higher education centres and 700 000 university
     graduates. The main aim is to reach the heart of the people and
     not only instruct them but also educate and train them.


     The commitment of the government is to give students a career
     related to their studies, and this is a serious commitment nobody
     can find in any other country.


     The Commander-in-Chief, Pres Fidel Castro, is leading programmes
     of development in social fairness, and they have the commitment to
     train more teachers to work on the programmes.


     The Minister also mentioned that he has recently visited three
     South African Universities - WITS, the University of the North
     West and UNISA - and he was very much impressed by UNISA on the
     work it developed. In South Africa they send their students to
     WITS and Vista University (Soweto branch) for scientific research
     and for other education-related matters.


     The Minister expressed a wish for a closer relationship with South
     African institutions of higher learning and the doors are open to
     any South African delegation to visit Cuba.


     For the Cuban society, the university is the social institution
     par excellence, which is bestowed with the responsibility of
     preserving, developing and spreading culture, the practical and
     concrete function of which is to ensure the training and
     development of citizens who, with rigorous scientific and
     technical qualifications and with solid moral and ethical values
     as agents of economic and socio-political processes and of
     intellectual and material goods production, will allow humanity to
     continue its development. The university has a moral and social
     obligation to direct all its intelligence and action to facilitate
     the reality of a world made for all, instead of a world made for
     just a few; a world in which many languages are spoken, instead of
     a world in which one language replaces all the others; and a world
     proud of its enriched culture made up of many cultures, instead of
     a world of one single culture impoverished by one and only one
     overwhelming crushing vision and influence.


     Cuba has co-operated and actively participated in the fully-
     fledged development of Cuban society and its growing integration
     into the congress of nations, and it has contributed to the
     development of other peoples, mainly in Latin-America and the
     Caribbean, in an environment of open and sincere co-operation.
     With this in mind, Cuban higher education has been working in the
     past 40 years in the academic field and in university research,
     services and outreach to the community, and Cuban universities
     project their vision into the new century.


     In the history of Cuban higher education, the need to have close
     ties between university and society has been reflected since the
     end of the 18th century, when Father Agustin Cabarello advocated
     the modernisation of higher education.


     Cuban institutions of higher learning are clearly aware that the
     interaction of university and society - the impact of what they do
     in the communities and of what they receive from the community -
     are essential elements for consolidation of the ongoing socio-
     economic transformation in the country and for the future demands
     created by development. The improvement of curricula in
     undergraduate programmes is an inherent component of the rendering
     of account of universities to society.


     43 years ago, they had 14 000 to 15 000 graduates, one million
     illiterate people, three official universities and a number of
     private universities which were only meant for the rich.


     At present there are no private entities in education, except
     schools belonging to diplomatic bodies, and no Cuban sends his or
     her children to private and religious schools.


     There are two top priorities of the Ministry - massive and basic
     education and higher education, and both have different budgets.
     They do not need any help from any country in relation to
     education.


     Every year they send 800 university professors abroad. While they
     are abroad, their families are taken care of. They also have an
     opportunity of self-financing students, and encourage that
     countries should send their students to study at institutions in
     Cuba. Among the foreign students, they have 200 South Africans
     presently studying in Cuba, more than 100 pursuing a career in
     medical sciences.


     In his view, economic contribution becomes very important because
     students are trained for free.


     Statistics


     61% of the students are women; 40% of the engineers are women; 70%
     of the women are doing medical sciences; 30% of the women are
     doing pedagogical studies; 45% of the students in universities are
     women; and there are few women chancellors and Rectors at
     universities.
     This statistics show that women are highly motivated and see
     education as the key to their success. The number of women
     studying in universities is increasing, and these figures have
     also increased in respect of research studies.


     Distance education and learning


     More than 15 000 students are distance learners. They are provided
     with books, but do not have enough computers, no resources, videos
     and other forms of communication, like e-mail. The Ministry has
     created research centres for training PHDs. Cuba is ready for the
     jump to distance learning within four to six years, based on the
     experience in South Africa.


     Higher education centres


     There are 52 institutions of higher learning in Cuba. The main
     university, established in Havana in 1978, is still regarded by
     Cubans as a very important institution of higher learning.


     How to manage number of students and jobs


     The three Ministries - Labour, Economy and Social Security - have
     to provide jobs to graduates, as these Ministries know the sources
     of the country's qualified labour force. The Ministry of Economy
     works jointly with the Ministry of Labour in the joint venture of
     training students. The enrolment plans are supported by demands of
     these Ministries.


     Funding universities


     Education in Cuba is 100% financed. The budget is allocated in
     Cuban pesos. As the budget is always a problem, they have a dual
     currency - US dollars and pesos. Both Ministries are still
     experiencing problems with purchasing scientific material with
     their currency. Having the dual economy, everything negotiated in
     education with Cuban entities is paid in pesos and have
     limitations.


     Additional funding is still needed to buy more learning material.


     Scientific research


     Scientific research refers to science, technical and cultural
     sciences. Research is done to meet the needs of the grassroots
     people in the country, and pedagogical research is perceived as
     one of the main research topics in social sciences.


     40% of students are conducting research with university
     professors. Their main interest is the development of technology
     and scientific research.


     Globalisation


     During capitalism, prostitution was high. There were countries
     that used to send groups of men to abuse women there.


     At present, there are no drugs, no casinos, no gambling and no
     brothels, and tourism is strong.


     In every municipality, children attend school. There are 20 000
     schools, of which 29 have only one student. "Where you find the
     student, you find the school".


     19 000 schools are now electrified with solar power, and have
     televisions and video machines. They train teachers to create
     values for students.


     As education was part of the revolution, the country spends lots
     of money on education.


     Disabled people at universities


     Disabled people are cared for by the rest of the students, who
     help them and take care of their interests. Blind people carry
     their sticks, and everybody knows that they are blind. The number
     of disabled people is very small.


     HIV/AIDS


     No child has been born with HIV/AIDS in the last three years. A
     child born disabled is given proper health care. Women are trained
     in how to control the birth rate. The HIV/AIDS centres are there
     for the infected, and care for them.


 J.     Visit to historical city centre of Old Havana and Africa House


     Historical city centre of Old Havana


     This museum, in front of the historical city centre, was built in
     1776 and in 1781. It was officially opened as a House of
     Government. It is a palace in the capital of Cuba. In 1967 it
     opened its doors as a museum of the city.


     Today, it is still regarded as one of the most important buildings
     in the history of Cuba. The museum is situated in a very important
     street which links the models of that time and in front of the
     armed square used by the military during the colonial era.


     Africa House


     This House was established on 1 June 1986 with the objective to
     promote African culture and integrate African and Cuban cultures.
     There are 3 000 pieces of African art represented by 38 countries.
     The Nigerian artist, Mr Bisi Fayeke, made the beautiful woman
     sculpture displayed in the main entrance.


     Among the African artwork displayed were:
         *Escultura (Ti Jwara) Utilizana en Ceremonias - Mali.


         *Caxadores Tallados end Madera - Congo.


         *Three pieces of sculptures made in the 13th century - Angola.


         *Four pieces of art, portraying slavery.


         *Five pieces of art - Mozambique.


     Various diplomatic missions donated some of the artwork. There is
     no artwork from South Africa.


 K.     Meeting with Minister of Education - official view by Minister,
     Hon I Gomez


     The Minister of Education, the Hon I Gomez, the Director of
     International Relations, warmly welcomed the delegation and the
     President of the Commission on Education, Science and Culture at
     the working dinner hosted by the Ministry of Education.


     The Cuban education system is different from the South African
     system. The Minister of Education has limited power to schools,
     but is in charge of legislation. The Committee of the National
     Assembly suggests to the National Assembly what is needed.


     Schools do not belong to the Minister; they are run by the
     People's Power at municipal level. The municipalities appoint the
     teachers, manage and control the budget, distribute the resources
     according to the size of the schools.


     All students are encouraged to obtain a university degree.


     The Ministry appoints the Chancellor and Deans, and manages
     approximately 16 universities in respect of general profile. The
     Ministry of Health Care manages five medical universities and
     schools of medicine; the Ministry of Sport manages art schools;
     and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs manages specific universities
     with specific activities.


     Most of the Ministers are not Deputies (MPs). Parties do not
     nominate Ministers. Municipalities elect the Deputies. In
     Parliament, the Hon I Gomez does not represent the Ministry of
     Education, but the interest of his nation.


     The Ministry of Higher Education draft policies for higher
     education. The 16 pedagogical universities are under the umbrella
     of the Ministry of Education.


     The Minister is aware of the education system in South Africa, and
     he has visited Pretoria when Prof S Bhengu was our Minister of
     Education.


     Prof K Asmal also met him during his visit to Cuba in June, and
     they agreed on two objectives: Advice for the literacy campaign,
     and Mathematics and Science under the new general condition from
     the economical and financial point of view: 60 teachers are to
     travel to South Africa; an action plan will be adjusted according
     to the agreement; and the delegation from the Ministry will
     interview the teachers priorto  departure in September 2001.


     Pres Fidel Castro gives all his support for education in South
     Africa, and the government will continue to give quality education
     and experience in respect of South Africans, as South Africa offer
     co-operation and experience.


     The literacy campaign played a vital role in eradicating
     illiteracy amongst Cubans. Pres Fidel Castro recommended
     inexpensive ways and methods, like the radio, to eliminate
     illiteracy in one year. His methods were very efficient and
     successful.


     Not everybody has a television set; radio is regarded as the most
     important form of public broadcast in Cuba, to use language that
     is understandable to the masses is of vital importance.


     For the national campaign to be successful, one need to do it in a
     language that people speaks and understands.


     Programmes on Information Technology


     They have programmes broadcast in the morning and afternoon, aimed
     at educating millions of people. They have manuals in French and
     they have now prepared to do programmes in Portuguese.


     Programmes to train Mathematics and Science teachers in South
     Africa have been agreed upon by the Cuban government. They have
     already trained 130 teachers in English and are now ready to go to
     South Africa. They will prepare them and convey teaching skills in
     respect of Mathematics and Science. Better training for South
     African teachers does not mean taking their jobs.


     The government is aware that South Africa has teachers without
     jobs, but in Cuba there are no extra teachers. They still need
     more teachers closer to the children, hence the need for another
     15 000. Education in Cuba is acknowledged worldwide, including the
     USA.


     There are sets of conditions recognized by UNICEF that
     acknowledges the system the country has in managing the education
     system. Research was carried out by UNISESCO on work developed in
     early learning, qualification of teachers, devotion of teachers to
     their work in school environment, control of quality of teaching
     profession, and availability of teaching aids and books.


     Most professor/teachers in pedagogical universities earn more than
     the Minister.


     Early learning centres


     There are 800 000 children (less than one to five years old), and
     the government is taking care of them. There are 1 115 day-care
     centres. They all enter day-care at the age of one year - this was
     agreed on in congress. These children are given a certain level of
     education before they start formal schooling. Because most of the
     parents are not working, the government subsidises and trains them
     in taking care of their children. Their health is in the hands of
     family doctors.


     Staff members are college graduates.


 L.     Visit to International Sport University - official view by
     Director of International Relations, Mr F A D Alfonso


     This is the youngest university in the country, sponsoring free
     education to non-Cubans. It was inaugurated by Pres Fidel Castro
     on 23 February 2001 and formally opened in June 2001.


     Although there are four South African students presently studying
     at the university, the delegation only had an opportunity to meet
     with two, both from the North West - Tebogo Miriam Kgwathe and
     Eleanor Estelle Daniels. The other two, Tebogo Thebehae and
     Vincent Mfundisi, both from the Free State, were on holiday in
     South Africa during our visit to the institution.


     At present, there are 662 students from 57 countries. As the
     medium of instruction is Spanish, non-Spanish students are taught
     and trained to speak Spanish. Their mission is to train students
     to be trainers, so that they can transform physical education and
     sport, and to take the knowledge and apply it in their respective
     countries.


     Students here are devoted to professionalism, efficiency and
     competitiveness, and are also permanent innovators and creators.
     They have a sense of belonging - they must feel what they are
     doing and where they belong.


     As students come from diverse cultures, they strongly value their
     cultural values, and activities are based on solidarity. Students
     do not stay together according to countries, but according to
     academic years. They are only grouped together in respect of
     cultural activities, and as a result they learn to maintain their
     cultural roots.


     As students come from different regions of the world, their
     countries are solely responsible for their airfares to Cuba, and
     on arrival they are given the necessary requirements, uniform,
     toiletry and a monthly allowance of 50 pesos, which they use as
     pocket money. This allowance does not cover any needs of the
     school, and no payment for schoolbooks. Everything is taken care
     of by the Cuban government until completion of their studies.


     Requirement for admission


         *The age limit is 25 years.


         *Students must be physically and mentally ready for school.


         *Students must present certificates to prove that they are free
          from any illnesses or HIV/AIDS.


         *Students must submit their birth certificates.


         *They must submit certified mid-summer school marks.


         *Girls must not be pregnant (pregnancy is incompatible with the
          training).


     Enrolment


     At present, there are 662 students and 75 teachers. The student
     population comprises 50% boys and 50% girls, with countries
     represented as follows: African - 29, Latin-America - 16, Asian -
     1, and Caribbean - 11. In Latin-America, there is only one country
     (Cororica), which is not represented. They have a maximum number
     of students in respact of any given country, and they work on
     allocations based on the capacity of each country, depending on
     the capacity of enrolment every year. Foreign Affairs is directly
     responsible for distribution through the Cuban Embassy in a
     particular country. Fair distribution is taken into account for
     all countries.


     The duration of the course is five years; each year is divided
     into two semesters. Towards the end of their studies, they must
     present a thesis, and on completion, they obtain degrees in
     Physical Education and Sport. The teachers teach sport according
     to the Olympic programme and all teachers are university graduates
     and have ample knowledge of physical education and sport.


     Characteristics of Programme


     The entire university programme is of a pedagogical nature; they
     do not train athletics but athletic trainers and professionals.
     They match the subjects to the characteristics of the programme.
     At university level, they do not train specialists but
     professionals. During their studies, they participate in
     recreative activities to be able to participate in physical
     rehabilitation. As they teach different groups of subjects,
     students can work in rehabilitation centres in hospitals. Other
     subjects include:


         *Spanish - Spanish-speaking students take English as a second
          language.


         *History and Sociology.


         *Computer Science - they can apply their training in a working
          environment.


         *Cuban students take Cuban History while other take universal
          studies.


         *They do not teach political subjects.


         *Optional subjects - sport that they would like to be coaches
          in.


     All the subjects are directed to their professions.
     Sports Facilities


     As this used to be a military school, the school management is
     reconstructing it, in three phases. There are no sporting
     facilities, but by the end of the reconstruction process, they
     will have 30 of them, including swimming pools and two multi-
     purpose rooms. By the time we visited the university, they were
     finishing the second phase of reconstruction.


     Other Services


     They have a large kitchen, a lounge accommodating 400 students, a
     bakery, telephone and television services operating 24 hours per
     day, a coffee shop, a post office, a primary care hospital with 20
     beds (eight for girls and 12 for boys), a laboratory, X-Ray
     facilities, a pharmacy, physiotherapy facilities, a library which
     opens daily from Monday to Friday and is accessed by students
     themselves, access to e-mail and the Internet, and three computer
     laboratories with 12 computers each.


     Communication channels


     Students use telephone cards, sold at 1US$, to call home. They are
     also given full support by means of access to e-mail in order to
     communicate with their families, as well as on Internet.


     Allocation of Students


     They have separate boarding rooms for boys and girls, and they
     only mix in class, in the lounge and during school activities.
     Classes are mixed groups from different countries, and it is
     normal to find mixed love relationships from cross-cultural
     countries among students.


     Prevention of pregnancy and other diseases


     The school conducts a strong programme of sex education not only
     to prevent pregnancy but also sexually transmitted diseases. The
     management of hospital takes this into account. Students have
     access to free condoms available in the hospital. When students
     return from the school holidays, they do periodical medical check
     ups and test on chloroquin (treatment used to treat malaria).


     When they detect HIV status from any student, he/she is taken to
     the centre to conduct necessary medical tests and take measures to
     send the student home.


     After the discussions, the delegation had an opportunity to tour
     around the university.


 M.     Visit to Latin-American School of Medical Sciences - official
     view


     The Latin-American School of Medical Sciences had previously 3 432
     students from 24 countries: 20 Latin America and Caribbean
     countries and 4 African countries. The idea of the school came
     from Latin America and Caribbean countries with an aim to bring
     the student around the world to train them as doctors and not
     specialists, and not to preserve medicine as merchandise, to see
     human being as a client.


     The school is located in the facilities of what used to be a Naval
     Academy for the formation of Army and marine higher officers. It
     has 82 buildings with 28 laboratories in an area of 1 200 000
     square metres, which were donated by the Cuban Ministry of the
     Army to the Ministry of Public Health on 31 December 1998.


     This project was created after the devastation caused by George
     and Mitch hurricanes, which resulted in more than 7 000 deaths and
     desolation to thousands of people at the end of 1998.


     Out of its spirit of solidarity the Cuban government immediately
     sent hundreds of doctors in medical brigades to help the affected
     people who are mostly still in the poorest populations in the
     rural areas of each country.


     Together with this collaboration, President Fidel Castro, had an
     idea of offering a more long-lasting help to these fraternal
     peoples. That is why only 3 months after the natural disaster the
     Cuban government gave the opportunity to Central American
     youngsters with a bachelor degree - mainly from poor families in
     the rural areas, to receive scholarships to study medicine in
     Cuba.


     The number of students in the first group was increased due to
     requests of the Latin American countries and thus instead of the
     approximately 700 students that were expected from Central
     America, 1 929 students from 18 Latin-American countries arrived.


     During the first quarter of this year a second group joined this
     initial group, which is now in the second year of studies.


     Today, there are 5 000 students registered with the school from 60
     countries with 600 indigenous people, with approximately 300 to
     400 professors. They admit 1 500 to 2 000 foreign students every
     year.


     Amongst the nations represented in this institution are Mexico,
     Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, and
     the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia,
     Ecuador, Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina; and the African
     nations of Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde and Guinea-Bissau.


     56% of the registrations are girls, with more than 50 ethnical
     groups. All lessons are delivered in Spanish. For the students of
     this school, just as for Cuban students, the lessons, lodging,
     books, toiletry, teaching materials and other facilities are
     gratuitous. They are in boarding regime and finish their teaching
     activities on Friday afternoon. Each student receives an allowance
     of 100 pesos every month.


     In this campus they stay for two years six months during their
     Basic Sciences cycle, (six months - levelling course; two years
     for Basic Medical Science) and for the remainder of their studies
     they go to the 21 Medical Faculties all over Cuba where they link
     practice and theory. The medical doctor has to be trained for six
     years. If the student has been studying medical science in his or
     her country, the course takes lesser time, as medical science
     studies differ from country to country.


     To complement the comprehensive attention that they receive during
     the six years of Medicine studies, different recreational,
     cultural, and sports activities are carried out which favour their
     formation as doctors with a high scientific, technical, cultural,
     ethical and humanitarian level.


     The future doctors who graduate from the Latin America School of
     Medicine will be missionaries who will offer daily care to their
     patients to help alleviate the most devastating hurricanes that
     affect the Third World: those of economic and social character.


     It has been noticed with appreciation that most students are
     interested in studying both western and traditional medicine. They
     have developed green medicine (traditional medicine) and created
     teams of work formed by the psychologists to take care of patients
     to follow a kind of therapy to be given to patients with
     depression and stress etc. The flower therapy is very effective in
     Cuba, and the doctors in the army used green medicine, now it is
     believed that if there were no medicine, people would have gone to
     the mountain. This is seen to substitute western medicine.


     Cuban traditional medicine is scientifically and laboratory based
     taking into account the western-based culture in Cuba. This method
     of teaching traditional medicine was fully developed in 1991, by
     Cuba government and doctors at the medical institutes develop
     these medicines.


     Traditional healers are fully trained. Family doctors work on
     these programmes at the national level, and they have
     institutions, hospitals and clinics.


     The delegation noted that there is an outward international
     sponsorship to all countries in the Latin America and around the
     world.


     Legislation guarding activities of institution


     There is joint work of two Ministries, namely; Ministry of Health,
     which is in charge of content and Ministry of Higher Education,
     which is in charge of methodology and procedures to teach in
     class. The budget is under the control of Health Care Ministry.


     Criteria and requirements for admission


         *The student must be between 18 and 25 years old and should
          pass senior high school (Grade 12).


         *He or she must have a bachelor degree or similar level or
          education and in the leveling course, chemistry is compulsory.
         *He or she must come from the poor areas or rural areas.


         *He or she must have no addiction to drugs and alcohol.


         *Medium of instruction for all courses is Spanish.


    Programmes of study are the same for foreign and Cuban students and
     foreign students have to study harder because illnesses may not be
     the same in their communities, as a result they have to make great
     efforts to study those illnesses.


 N.     Visit to Social Workers School- official view by Director of
     School and President of Commission on Education and Culture, Mr A
     Benarides


     This school or youth-driven project is under the umbrella of
     Ministry of Education, taking care of students studying
     pedagogical science, special science and primary education. The
     school started in August 2000 and key objective is to solve social
     problems within the communities. This was an idea of the Commander
     in Chief, President Fidel Castro who developed one of the
     programmes of the revolution, taking care of social problems and
     social changes of all the masses in Cuba. It was mentioned that
     even after the revolution they still had historic problems, which
     they could not transform in a short period of time.


     As it is the only school operating in Cuba, there is an intention
     to open three more, one in the western and two in eastern parts of
     the country. There have been many requests to train social workers
     at universities, but in Cuba, they are trained in various
     institutions


     This school trains group of young people between 18 and 22 years
     who are Grade 12 graduates to become social workers and to train
     the youth to be socially productive. The students are trained to
     take care of impact in the young population, to look at families
     with social and economic problems. They have 180 teachers training
     7 000 students per semester, over a period of five-and-a-half
     months, 14 000 students are trained for this programme per annum.
     The number of teachers varies and is determined by the number of
     student enrolment. They also get assistance from university
     professors to lecture certain courses free of charge and with no
     costs involved and teaching certain subjects in the primary
     schools when needed.


     After this period they are deployed to the communities to look for
     those students who could not be in the system. They work jointly
     with other institutions of the government and young population on
     the impact of their family problems to address their needs. All
     families in Cuba can access social security.
     Only Cubans are trained in this programme and this is seen as an
     incentive for those who did not have an opportunity to go to
     universities to further their studies. They attend school from
     Monday to Friday and on Saturday; they do their practical work.
     Once they are admitted to the university as part time students,
     they attend once a week and the duration of the course is 5 years.
     The huge amount of work is done at home. They report to the Young
     Communist League and integrate study and work. Research is used as
     a tool to elaborate proposals to work on the solutions.


     As the Young Communist League leads all youth projects, they come
     back to school to report and feedback to this league and to their
     teachers once a week on the work done and needs of the people.
     Common problems they get as a form of feedback related to their
     studies are employment (orientate population into different jobs
     as they sometimes do not know options of employment); cases of
     young people who did not get an opportunity to study at the
     university; problems of families with low income; and taking care
     of persons with illnesses who need health care.


     When they are at the university, they attend regular courses on a
     part-time basis. They are trained to work with families and young
     people visiting them in their homes to study the environment and
     problems encountered by that environment and access young
     population to employment. Students do subjects related in working
     in psychological environment, and they propose solutions to the
     problems and information on the result of the revolution are also
     given to them. It was mentioned that there are various solutions
     to their problems, one of them is to give them food, give books to
     children in need and jobs to parents in need.


     Any person who is not employed, they immediately look for
     opportunities for one to study. They also talk to the people in
     the communities and look for different options to work and if
     unqualified, they are sent to training sessions in order to get
     jobs. The teachers at all times do promote possibilities and
     opportunities for their students.


     The problems they sometimes capture in the communities are of
     cultural nature, i.e. families of low intellectual and low school
     level. They then look for the opportunities for their children to
     access day care centres and to get jobs that are in line with
     their qualifications especially for those who are not qualified.
     They also do educational work, taking children to art schools, or
     any technical school to do other technical studies.


     On completion of the studies they are employed and come under the
     umbrella of the Young Communist League, which monitors the budget
     but they receive their salaries from different Ministries. This
     league offer studies to those students who were unable to further
     their studies. This is the call from Pres Fidel Castro and the
     Young Communist League that no person should be in prison. Such
     projects prevent youth to be imprisoned.


     They can access any university in Cuba without a test, as it is an
     entry requirement for admission in any university in Cuba. They
     can take humanities studies so as to specialise in doing social
     work. As according to the Director, university studies are seen to
     be more important because they become psychologists and
     sociologists, which enable them to work with any type of society.
     They can also work in the Ministries of Social Security and Health
     as well as the NGOs.


     The Cuban government strongly believes that all projects should be
     directly youth-driven to encourage them to see the importance of
     education.


     Although they have insufficient resources to solve the severe
     housing problem and poor living conditions in their houses, they
     are able to learn.


     The amount of grant as a form of assistance each family unit
     receives, depends on the type of problem they have which ranges
     from 50 to 200 pesos per month. The main objective of the
     government is not to give them grants but in the case where one
     cannot work because of serious illnesses like nervous breakdown or
     taking care of the elderly, the grant is permanent.


 O.     Visit to CINED Educational Film Centre - official view by Mr I
     Barreto and teachers


     This company which is under an umbrella of the Ministry of
     Education the only company of this kind in Cuba, co-ordinate and
     produces audio-visual, teaching and learning aids, videos, slides
     and leisure materials for children. It is in support of the
     Ministry and takes priority and needs of the Ministry, and
     transformation of curriculum of Ministry of Education, to provide
     needy materials on different levels of teaching to support work of
     the teachers/professors and not to substitute them. They also
     support the work with the research and opinion of teachers and
     professors.


     They do not do video work on their own but with the institutions,
     and they involve teachers and students. The video programmes
     support television programmes. Having 30 years experience in its
     work, they are able to provide these materials to all Cuban
     schools and other different institutions. Each school is supplied
     with a television set and video machine to enable them to access
     these materials.


     They have already distributed 40 000 cassettes to schools and to
     all different sectors in the country containing films with
     recreational materials approaching every subject in education.


     These educational programmes approach certain sex education,
     political and military instruction, preservation and environment,
     which are aimed and directed from day care centres to senior high
     school, for different age groups. They are also aimed at the
     teachers/professors to improve their cultural level.


     This company also provide computers to rural schools, which enable
     them to watch using the power and solar systems. These computers
     were bought through the agreement with the Republic of China to
     supply the computers to rural schools and given a priority also to
     those schools with five students or one student. As this project
     is run by the Young Communist League project, they mobilise the
     youth to be involved in such programmes.


     Programmes/project run by the Young Communist League include:


     *Audio Visual Programmes.


     *University for All (it is broadcast three times a week).


     *Video Halls.


     *Computing class.


     *Social Workers Programmes.


     *School of Art Instructors.


     *Distance Training (they videos and all  equipment for video
       conferring).
     They do research to make sure that these programmes are utilised
     properly by creating programmes to train educational professors to
     meet their needs and interests and for students to use these
     programmes. As they use a lot of technology, they control the work
     of the visual materials as it serves as an important tool or
     feedback source on how they are used in the classroom.


     There has been close working relationship with Venezuala regarding
     these programmes. They have signed agreements with Latin American
     Association of Educational Programmes, with Spain and Mexico to
     supply them with the materials to assist their schools. They are
     ready to help any country with these materials.


     Although they are self-financed, part of the project is funded by
     the State through Ministry of Education and Young Communist
     League.
 P.     Visit to Museum of Revolution


     This museum was the Presidential Palace before the revolution. In
     1957 it portrayed a very significant era where Batista killed a
     group of 50 people inside the building (bullets shots are still on
     the walls). In 1974 it was officially opened as a national museum.




     This is one of the historical palaces in Cuba. Personalities such
     as Fidel Castro, Enersto Guevara, Camilo Cienfuegos and Ravil
     Castro took part in the ordinary sessions on Tuesdays and Fridays.
     They adopted measures of wide popular benefits that characterize
     the programme of the revolution.


     The delegation was given an opportunity to tour around the museum.


     Pres Fidel Castro lighted the Flame of Freedom outside the museum
     in 1989 to attribute for all fallen heros of the nation.


 Q.     Visit to Varadero Beach


     A lunch was hosted at the Protocol House by the National Assembly
     of People's Power during the visit to the Varadero Beach.


 R.     Visit to Deputy Ministry of Foreign Relations - official view by
     Deputy Minister, Hon Jose Guerra Menchero


     The Minister congratulated Dr Rajoo for the report he presented to
     Cuba in 1999.


     There are 500 people working in the Ministry of Foreign Relation
     ranging from the Minister to personnel.


     In 1959 they had 26 embassies inside and 27 outside. Today, they
     have 99 embassies, 118 missions including the consulates. Cuba is
     isolated due to economic blockage. About 167 countries voted in
     favour of Cuba while 3 against and have best relations with South
     Africa.


     The members of ACP (Africa Caribbean Pacific) have to accept
     certain conditions to be the members of the European Union (EU).
     For Cuba, there is no need for conditionality to be the member and
     no need for paper condition. There are no conditions to any
     country, which have diplomatic relations with Cuba. They have good
     relations with Latin America.


     81% of Cubans are owners of their houses. The government employees
     are the lowest paid. The Deputy Minister earns US$27 per month
     (R216); an official, US$20 (R160), while the policeman receives
     US$1 (R8). There are no special benefits among citizens.


     Relations with foreign students


     The Ministry is directly in charge of giving and securing the
     scholarships; and there is a permanent unit dealing with this
     area.


     There are 9 000 foreign students studying in Cuba. Their
     respective governments only pay for their tickets and once the
     student arrives, everything is taken care of by the government
     except in postgraduate's studies.


     Out of 11,2 million inhabitants, they have 80 000 doctors. They
     are they compare with the best in medicine and have developed
     their medical profession and their pharmaceutical industry.


     Research on life-threatening diseases


     They do research on HIV and are working on the vaccine. They are
     free to work at any country that wants to collaborate, as they are
     ready to co-operate. HIV needs a lot of knowledge.


     Approximately 2 038 people in Cuba are HIV. The low average growth
     rate is 0,2%.


     The struggle for HIV is becoming useful for teenage pregnancy;
     figures are too high. There is still a big problem in the
     countryside regarding teenage pregnancy. Abortion is free and is
     done under the control of medical supervisor. Back street
     abortionists are severely punished.


     View change in communist work


     The parties in Soviet Union were separated to the masses.
     According to the Minister "to stay in power, people should support
     you". Public health and education are the benefits that cannot be
     stopped.


 S.     Visit to Agricultural Havana University - official view by
     University Management
     This university is the leading sector in agriculture under the
     umbrella of the national institute for agricultural health. There
     are 300 professors, 2 000 undergraduates, 4 000 post graduates and
     135 foreign students. 34 foreign countries are represented at this
     university and they continually sustain international work with
     these foreign countries. The professors work mainly with
     undergraduate students at the university and teach postgraduates
     during holidays.


     They are considering converting the university into international
     university because of cultural impact of students and teachers.


     None of the students receive salary, they are only given an
     allowance as part of their practice to enhance knowledge in labour
     and research. Postgraduate studies are more demanding in various
     specialities.


     Integration of studies and agriculture


     They train the students for them to have better performance in
     workplace. They spend less time in class; they work as technicians
     and devote more time to their research to give solutions to the
     problems in Havana province. They send students to companies
     independent to the university and co-operatives as part of their
     practice.


     Planning of curriculum and teach


     They specify teaching, research and productive subject each
     student should take. They support a lot of work in relations with
     production entities, sending them to farming and agricultural
     entities. The thesis is based on production problems.


     Since 1999, training of students on social and agricultural
     science aimed at community work. This is a new experience, study
     and research and transformation. The key principle is to train in
     the society for society and links that surrounds the community.


     Links with South Africa


     They had South African students prior 1994, but as to now none are
     presently studying at the university although they have agreements
     with South African universities. They are open to any visible
     exchange because they have strong basic material with universities
     abroad and have experience of work with Africa.


     The university would like to establish links and co-operation with
     South Africa.


 T.     Comments and recommendations


     1. The delegation envisages that youth of this country should be
          involved in the literacy campaigns linking it up along with
          the Constitution and guidelines should be clearly stated in
          that regard.


     2. There should be massive mobilization by SANLI, taking everybody
          on board including organizations, NGOs, churches and unions
          etc. in the literacy campaign.


     3. Involvement of media should be encouraged for promotion of the
          literacy campaigns.


     4. Inclusive in education system should be encouraged and
          continuous support system for those students who have been
          integrated at district level should be strongly emphasized.


     5. Preparatory work at educare centres and home based educational
          centres must be done to train necessary personnel before
          implementation, and where facilities do not exist, mechanisms
          should be created to train mothers to teach their children.


     6. South African education system should integrate school work
          with the world of work within the curriculum and this can
          honour their physical work in their schools.


     7. When schools close, students should be encouraged to provide
          assistance in HIV/Aids awareness programmes, assisting the
          senior citizen in pensions pay points and in the literacy
          campaigns in all provinces in the country.


     8. Schools should restore discipline and work ethics.


     9. There is a need for South Africa to have its own sport academy,
          which will train students in all sporting fields as well as
          the physical education, using the unused infrastructure i.e.
          teacher colleges.


     10.     There should be more links between South African
          universities with those in Cuba.


     11.     South African government needs to identify artistic
          articles that would represent South Africa and be displayed at
          the Africa House.


     12.     The Committee should have conscious link up with the
          Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation, as they have
          visited the institution during their visit early this year.


     13.     There should be mass involvement of youth especially for
          those who cannot study through to Grade 12 in the management
          of social problems within communities.


     14.     There is a need for infrastructure to house youth to be
          trained for short courses, e. g 4 - 5 months programmes. They
          should be trained on day to day problems of the communities
          and on other broader context of other courses like brick
          laying, so as to build houses needed for social development.


     15.     There is a need to promote the spirit of voluntarism
          amongst the youth. The National Youth Commission should be
          driving the process to encourage the youth of South Africa.


     16.     Constant co-ordination between media and subject advisor
          and curriculum experts should be encouraged.


     17.     Students should all the time be encouraged to watch the
          educational programmes broadcasted by SABC, and the schools
          should market the programmes and they should be monitored.
     18.     Television and radio must be taken as a medium of
          instruction and awareness of these educational programmes must
          be encouraged.


     19.     There is a need for one common museum in all provinces
          which will depict history of South Africa including the
          apartheid era (1652 - 1959-1990 - 1994) and emphasis on the
          current history.


     20.     The Committee should discuss the issue with the Portfolio
          Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology on the
          establishment of the national museum specifically on the
          evaluation of the visit.


     21.     There should be closer link between the arts and culture
          and education portfolio committees.


     22.     Each department should be involved in each university's
          activities as in Cuba, they are directly engaged with the
          universities and are geared at enhancing community needs.


     23.     Universities and colleges of education should have
          physical practical work and production at the end.


     24.     There is a need to establish one college in each province
          to drive the rural development and national agenda forward.
          Youth should be directly involved in these programmes. There
          is also a need to establish agricultural colleges using the
          unused educational colleges, which have proper and usable
          facilities.


 T.     Conclusion


     The delegation as well and the entire Portfolio Committee on
     Education observed and was impressed with, inter alia, four
     important principles underpinning the Cuban education policy,
     namely:


     1. Generosity, which is reflected in their programmes offered to
          other developing countries despite their own economic position
          and their promotion of a spirit of giving among the youth.


     2. The encouragement of voluntarism among the people generally and
          the young people in particular, regardless of their own needs,
          reflected in their vacation programmes of voluntary services.


     3. The importance they attach to agriculture as being the very
          essence of life, reflected in their programmes for the
          promotion of agriculture enterprise.


     4. Their programmes are also geared towards building mutual
          respect between the young and the not-so-young people,
          reflected in the numerous projects they have for the youth
          meeting their diverse needs and creating the opportunities for
          the potential of the young people to be exposed.


     All their programmes promote these values. The Committee strongly
     recommends that in the midst of the exploitive, ruthless and self-
     centred ethos in our country, reflected in the violence against
     children and women, there is a strong need for these important
     values, which are also part of our own concept "Ubuntu", and also
     contained in the "Manifesto on values, education and democracy"
     document of the Department of Education, be actively promoted in
     our education system.


 U.     List of participants


     1. Mr R Sethlapelo, Charge d'Affaires a.i - Embassy of South
          Africa.
     2. Ms A Haslop, First Secretary - Embassy of South Africa.


     3. Ms P Rapudi, Administrative Attache - Embassy of South Africa.


     4. Ms E Segoapa, Head of Management - Embassy of South Africa.


     5. Mr T Molale, First Secretary - Embassy of South Africa.


     6. Prof L Campos, Prof of History, and staff, Museum of the
          Literacy Campaign.


     7. Ms L D Carballo Gonzalez, Director and staff for School for the
          Disabled.


     8. Mrs L C Fabelo, President of the Commission on Education,
          Science and Culture/People's Power, National Assembly and the
          Commission - Cuba.


     9. Mr J R Cucelo, Director and staff Republic of Angola Senior
          High School.


     10.     Mrs M C C Tabares, Director, Nursery School "Semillitas
          del 2000".


     11.     Mr T D Denis, Sub-Director and staff Nursery School
          "Semillitas del 2000".


     12.     Ms O Miranda, Teacher, and staff Nursery School of Jesus
          Menendez Co-operatives, Cuba.


     13.     Dr F Vecino Alegret, Minister of Higher Education, Cuba.


     14.     Staff, Old Havana and Africa House.


     15.     Hon I Gomez, Minister of Education, Cuba.


     16.     Mr F A D Alfonso, Director, International Sport
          University.


     17.     Latin-American School of Medical Science.


     18.     Mr A Benarides, Director, Social Workers School.


     19.     The Directors and staff - CINED Educational Film Centre.


     20.     Staff - Jose Marti Museum of Revolution.


     21.     Hon J G Menchero, Deputy Minister of Foreign Relations and
          staff, Cuba.


     22.     University Management and the Staff, Havana Agricultural
          University.


     23.     Ms D Delgado, English Interpreter - Cuba.


     24.     Mr S Castro Fernandez - Professional Staff, National
          Assembly of People's Power - Havana, Cuba.
     25.     All the drivers - National Assembly of People's Power.


     26.     All the communities visited.


 Report to be considered.