National Council of Provinces - 08 November 2001
THURSDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:03.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Dr P J C NEL: Madam Chair, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that an ethics audit recently conducted by the Ethics Institute of South Africa, an independent organisation, at the Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital showed inter alia that -
(a) because of chronic staff shortage and bad working conditions,
the hospital was delivering a substandard health care service;
(b) the hospital with its dilapidated infrastructure was an unsafe,
dirty and depressing workplace;
(c) staff morale was low and they felt they were working in a
``second-class'' hospital;
(d) a large percentage of patients had to bribe staff for special
treatment; and
(e) there was a severe shortage of pharmaceutical products and linen
due to theft;
(2) in general takes note that one of the largest hospitals in the world with a bed capacity of 3 400 and employing 4 885 people is critically ill and is dying; and
(3) requests the Minister of Health to put this hospital in an intensive care unit where it can get highly specialised treatment, without delay.
Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chair, at the next sitting of this Council I will move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) a conflict resolution conference on the Sudan, called the
Southern Political Forces Conference, is to be held (after
Nigerian facilitation) in Abuja, Nigeria from 12 to 17 November,
under chairmanship of former President Ibrahim Babangia;
(b) participants will include SPLM armed factions, Southerners in
government, civilian political parties, plus a geographical
representation, prominent women and national figures; and
(c) the outcome could be a common Southern position and agreed
preconditions for peace as well as the establishment of a common
Southern forum, as a precursor to negotiations for peace, to end
the protracted violence and political stalemate in the Sudan;
(2) calls upon the South African Government to encourage the process in Abuja and beyond; and
(3) hopes that a common position can be found by the conference so that the process of negotiation and constitution-making in the Sudan can commence that can lead to a settlement and an end to violence in that troubled country. Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes the attempts by Premier Gerald Morkel to delay the collapse of the DA by -
(a) calling a provincial meeting of the Western Cape; and
(b) legal attempts to halt the emergency meeting of the New NP's
Federal Council;
(2) further notes that such actions by the premier -
(a) are symbolic of a selfish agenda based on self-aggrandisement;
and
(b) reflect the short-sightedness and lack of political acumen of
the premier by continuing an alliance based purely on an anti-
ANC platform and a regurgitation of ``white politics'' based on
exclusive privileges; and
(3) resolves that -
(a) more emphasis be placed on advancing the national agenda of
building nonracialism, reconciliation and nation-building; and
(b) more emphasis be placed on aligning with forces that are
consistent with values that will advance all the people of South
Africa.
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern comments attributed to the honourable Mr Tony Leon in the Cape Times in which he is quoted as saying that if the ``Doomed-to-fail Alliance’’ loses the Western Cape, the ANC will turn the province into a replica of other provinces;
(2) believes that the statement by Mr Leon is one of his many attempts since the early days of apartheid, when he was the propagandist for the former SADF, to demonise the ANC;
(3) further believes that Mr Leon’s outburst shows a lack of understanding of political realignment; and
(4) therefore calls upon Mr Leon to stop puerile and hollow lamenting and allow the process of political realignment to take its course.
Me C-S BOTHA: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek tydens die volgende sitting sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem van die ondubbelsinnige verklaring oor die Nuwe NP deur twee woordvoerders van Cosatu, lid van die drieledige alliansie, naamlik dat - in hul woorde - ``die Nuwe NP -
(a) 'n voortsetting is van die ou NP wat Suid-Afrika aan apartheid
onderwerp het; en wat nou
(b) op opportunistiese wyse probeer om hulself te reposisioneer as
'n `progressiewe mag' deur beginsellose alliansies te sluit'';
en
(2) van mening is dat die kiesers van Suid-Afrika nie onderskat moet word deur te dink dat hulle vir hierdie siniese foefie sal val nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Ms C-S BOTHA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes the unambiguous statement regarding the New NP by two spokespersons for Cosatu, a member of the tripartite alliance, namely that - in their words - “the New NP is -
(a) a continuation of the old NP that subjected South Africa to
apartheid; and which is now
(b) trying in an opportunistic manner to reposition itself as a
`progressive force', by forging unprincipled alliances"; and
(2) is of the opinion that the electorate of South Africa should not be underestimated by thinking that they will fall for this cynical gimmick.]
CENTRAL BANK GOVERNOR OF THE YEAR AWARD AWARDED TO THE GOVERNOR OF THE RESERVE BANK, MR TITO MBOWENI
(Draft Resolution)
Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with great pride the honour of Central Bank Governor of the Year Award that has just been conferred on the Governor of the Reserve Bank, Mr Tito Mboweni, by the internationally acclaimed Euromoney Journal;
(2) shares in the admiration and recognition of Mr Mboweni by his international peers, considering that he is only in his second year in that position;
(3) believes that South Africa’s low inflation rate, sound interest rate and monetary policy is further testimony to this; and
(4) also notes that this achievement will go a long way towards reinforcing foreign investor belief in South Africa.
HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ATTACKS BY UNITA ON CIVILIANS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern the continued attacks on innocent civilians in Angola by Unita;
(2) believes that -
(a) these attacks by Unita are tantamount to terrorist actions; and
(b) all actions against terrorism should be treated in the same way;
and (3) calls upon the international community to address the plight of
Angolans.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOUTH AFRICAN LEGION AND COMMEMORATION OF WAR VETERANS
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr J L THERON: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:
Dat die Raad -
(1) erkenning verleen aan die inisiatiewe van die Suid-Afrikaanse Legioen - ‘n organisasie wat na die belange van alle veterane en hul afhanklikes omsien, ongeag die missie waarvoor geveg is - om die gestorwenes van alle oorloë te gedenk;
(2) erkenning verleen aan die feit dat hierdie inisiatief gevolg word in alle Gemenebes-lande, waarvan Suid-Afrika ‘n lid is, en baie ander lande van die wêreld; en
(3) besluit om ondersteuning te verleen aan die idee dat enigiemand wat enigsins kan, op die elfde dag (Sondag) van die elfde maand (November) om 11:00 twee minute stilte handhaaf om alle gestorwenes in oorloë te gedenk.
Voorsitter, dit is waarvoor hierdie papawer ook staan. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) recognises the initiatives of the South African Legion - an organisation which looks after the interests of all military veterans and their dependants, irrespective of the cause they fought for - to honour the fallen in all wars;
(2) acknowledges that this initiative is being followed by all Commonwealth countries, of which South Africa is a member, as well as many other countries of the world; and
(3) resolves to support the idea that those who are able to do so, will on the eleventh day (Sunday) of the eleventh month (November) at 11:00 observe two minutes of silence to honour the fallen in all wars.
Chairperson, that is also what this poppy stands for.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to the motion?
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Yes, Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is an objection. The motion therefore becomes notice of a motion.
COMMENTS BY AUDITOR-GENERAL REGARDING POOR IMPLEMENTATION OF LEGISLATION AND POLICY AND UNSPENT ALLOCATIONS
(Draft Resolution)
Dr E A CONROY: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:
Dat die Raad -
(1) met ontsteltenis kennis neem van die Ouditeur-Generaal se bevinding dat ‘n gebrekkige vermoë om wetgewing en regeringsbeleid doeltreffend en ekonomies in werking te stel een van die brandendste probleme van owerheidstrukture in Suid-Afrika bly en dat dit aan ‘n tekort aan kundigheid op bedryfs- en bestuursvlak te wyte is; en
(2) met kommer kennis neem dat die Ouditeur-Generaal verder bevind het dat onbestede toewysings aan departemente, provinsies en munisipaliteite ‘n stygende tendens toon. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with dismay the finding of the Auditor-General that a poor ability to implement legislation and government policy efficiently and economically remains one of the most pressing problems of structures of authority in South Africa and that it results from a shortage of expertise at operating and management level; and
(2) notes with concern that the Auditor-General also found that unspent allocations to departments, provinces and municipalities show an increasing trend.] The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] There is an objection. The motion therefore becomes notice of a motion.
ALLEGED LEAKAGE OF EXAM PAPERS IN MPUMALANGA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the motion without notice adopted on 6 November 2001 on the leakage of exam papers wrongly refers to Mpumalanga as one of the provinces where the leakage occurred; and
(2) amends paragraph 1 by the deletion of ``Mpumalanga’’.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to that motion? [Interjections.] There is an objection. The motion therefore becomes notice of a motion.
REPORT BY FRIDAY GROUP ON LANGUAGE DIVERSITY IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:
Dat die Raad -
(1) daarvan kennis neem dat -
(a) 'n uitgelese groep akademici onder die naam die Vrydaggroep 'n
verslag oor taalverskeidenheid in Suid-Afrika sedert 1994 die
lig laat sien het;
(b) hierdie verslag dit duidelik stel dat Engels deurgaans bo
Afrikaans en die ander inheemse tale in owerheidsinstansies
gestel word;
(c) volgens die Voorsitter van die groep, prof Van Rensburg, die
getal eksemplare van boeke en regeringsdokumente wat in
Afrikaans, isiZulu en Sepedi gedruk is tussen 1994 en 1999
afgeneem het teenoor die skerp styging in Engelse eksemplare; en
(d) prof Van Rensburg ook daarop wys dat, op SABC 1, 2 en 3, Engels
74% van die uitsaaityd kry teenoor Afrikaans se 8,9%, die
Ngunitale se 4,7% en die Sotho-groep se 3,5%;
(2) die aanbeveling steun dat die Suid-Afrikaanse Talewet so spoedig moontlik aangebied en aanvaar word; en
(3) verder kennis neem dat agbare lede dié verslag by mnr A E van Niekerk kan bekom. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -
(1) notes that
(a) a select group of academics named the Friday Group has
published a report on language diversity in South Africa since
1994;
(b) this report states clearly that throughout government
institutions English is continuously being placed above
Afrikaans and the other indigenous languages;
(c) according to the chairperson of the group, Prof Van
Rensburg, the number of copies of books and government
documents printed in Afrikaans, isiZulu and Sepedi decreased
between 1994 and 1999, in contrast with the sharp increase in
English copies; and
(d) Prof Van Rensburg also points out that English on SABC 1,
2 and 3 receives 74% of the broadcasting time, in contrast
with the 8,9% of Afrikaans, the 4,7% of Nguni languages and
the 3,5% of the Sotho group;
(2) supports the recommendation that the legislation on South
African languages be tabled and passed as soon as possible;
(3) further notes that honourable members can obtain this report
from Mr A E van Niekerk.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CAPE TOWN YACHT SELECTED AS BEST IN THE WORLD
(Draft Resolution)
Me E C GOUWS: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing: Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem van die feit dat -
(a) 'n Kaapse seilboot vervaardig deur Voyage Yachts in
Paardeneiland aangewys is as die beste ter wêreld;
(b) die aankondiging van die pryswennende kruiserboot gemaak is op
'n internasionale bootskou in St Petersburg, Amerika;
(c) die Voyage 440 teen sowat R3 miljoen in Amerika bemark word; en
(d) dit die tweede jaar agtereenvolgens is dat die prys vir beste
seilbote na die Kaap kom; en
(2) die land se bootboubedryf gelukwens met die uitmuntende vakmanskap en met die waardevolle bydrae om Suid-Afrika se naam te vestig op buitelandse markte. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows)
[Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) a Cape Town yacht manufactured by Voyage Yachts in Paarden
Eiland has been selected as the best in the world;
(b) the announcement of the award-winning cruiser boat was
made at an international boat show in St Petersburg, America;
(c) the Voyage 440 is being marketed at about R3 million in
America; and
(d) this is the second year in succession that the prize for
the best yachts is coming to Cape Town; and
(2) congratulates the country's ship-building industry on its
outstanding craftmanship and on the valuable contribution towards
establishing South Africa's name in foreign markets.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
POOR COMMUNITY HEALTH SERVICES
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with great concern the newspaper report that community service doctors put patients at risk in the rural areas;
(2) further notes that these doctors, besides being insufficiently trained in community health work, are undersupervised and overworked;
(3) acknowledges the South African Medical Journal for publishing a list of misdiagnosed cases as an attempt to conscientise the Department of Health around this problem;
(4) believes that community health sectors in rural areas are still faced with the problems of poor infrastructure, inappropriate staffing, lack of adequate ambulance services and shortage of medication; and
(5) therefore appeals to the Department of Health to play a more effective role in investigating these allegations and to establish systems for monitoring the community health services to ensure quality care to patients.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to that motion?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I have an amendment. I move as an amendment:
That, in paragraph (1), some'' be inserted before community service
doctors’’.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I do not object to the amendment, because, after all, this reflects on only some community service doctors, who are still in training.
Amendment agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely:
That the Council -
(1) notes with great concern the newspaper report that some community service doctors put patients at risk in the rural areas;
(2) further notes that these doctors, besides being insufficiently trained in community health work, are undersupervised and overworked;
(3) acknowledges the South African Medical Journal for publishing a list of misdiagnosed cases as an attempt to conscientise the Department of Health around this problem;
(4) believes that community health sectors in rural areas are still faced with the problems of poor infrastructure, inappropriate staffing, lack of adequate ambulance services and shortage of medication; and
(5) therefore appeals to the Department of Health to play a more effective role in investigating these allegations and to establish systems for monitoring the community health services to ensure quality care to patients.
REPORT COMMISSIONED BY GAUTENG DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M I MAKOELA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) commends the Gauteng Department of Health for having commissioned an audit which among others provided valuable information about the situation at the Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital; and
(2) notes that the report of the audit and the information so gathered will help the Department to take steps to rectify the situation and help plan for the future.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! We will have to look at the wording of that motion in order to ensure that it is not the same in content as the motion adopted a moment ago. We will study the record in that regard.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DESIGNATION OF DR Z P JORDAN TO REPLACE MR T S YENGENI IN SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PARLIAMENT
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the Council -
(1) designates Dr Z P Jordan to replace Mr T S Yengeni as representative of Parliament in the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum in terms of article 6(3) of the constitution of the said Forum with immediate effect; and
(2) confirms the designation of Mr C W Eglin and Ms S N Ntlabati as representatives of Parliament in the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum in terms of article 6(3) of the constitution of the said Forum.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
JUDGES' REMUNERATION AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, colleagues, comrades and friends, this Bill emanates largely from the amendments to the Constitution that were recently enacted in Parliament, more specifically the amendments that seek to extend the term of office of Constitutional Court judges in certain circumstances. Furthermore, they envisage the head of the Constitutional Court becoming the Chief Justice, and the Supreme Court of Appeal being headed by a president. The opportunity has also been used to rationalise the legislation, regulating remunerations and conditions of employment of judges by making this legislation applicable countrywide.
The Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill, 2001, was originally tabled in Parliament as the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill. The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development decided, for a variety of reasons, to deal only with those provisions contained in the Bill pertaining to the remuneration of judges and their conditions of employment. They essentially focused on matters that cannot be held in abeyance until the 2002 session of Parliament.
Although the provisions under discussion differ somewhat from the Bill as introduced, deliberations by the portfolio and select committees have resulted in a soundly crafted piece of legislation. The end product in this legislative process is also a fine example of how constructive debate and engagement at the committee level in Parliament enhances the real value of our constitutional democracy.
The Bill, as originally tabled, proposed that the Constitutional Court judges enjoy life tenure, as do their colleagues in the Supreme Court of Appeal and in the High Courts. There was strong opposition to this proposal from various quarters, and the debate that ensued in the committees was rigorous and probing.
At one point, quite frankly, I was not optimistic that a workable solution could be found. But the committee’s usual thoroughness and thoughtfulness prevailed. I am pleased to say that the Bill debated by this House today fully addresses the Ministry’s original concerns about the current position of Constitutional Court judges, and responds more than adequately to our motives for proposing life tenure in the first place.
Hon members will recall that the protagonists for life tenure argued that this would be in the best interests of the Constitutional Court, as an institution. Antagonists, on the other hand, argued that the Constitutional Court with all its powers was, from the outset, intended to be presided over by judges with limited or fixed tenure of office, in a court almost set apart from the other ordinary courts of the land. The Bill, in my view, now satisfies both these arguments.
Let us have a look at some of the key provisions provided by this reworked piece of legislation. Before doing that, we need to have a quick look at the current position.
In terms of the current legislation, a judge is a judge for life and does not retire. A judge must be discharged from active service at the age of 70, but can stay on until the age of 75 years, if he or she has not completed 15 years’ active service, 15 years being the number of years to qualify for a full pension.
After discharge from active service, a judge continues to get a salary for life, a salary that is calculated using a formula that takes into account the salary of a judge at discharge from active service and the number of years of active service.
In addition to this lifelong salary, judges also receive a gratuity when they are discharged from active service. This gratuity is also based on the salary of a judge at discharge from active service and the number of years of active service. Surviving spouses of judges are entitled to a share of this retirement salary and gratuity in the event of the death of the judge.
In contrast to this, Constitutional Court judges who were not judges before they were appointed to the Constitutional Court, receive a once-off gratuity when their term of office in the Constitutional Court comes to an end; either when they turn 70 or when their nonrenewable 12-year term as a Constitutional Court judge expires. Should any of these judges die, their surviving spouses are also entitled to a share of this gratuity.
The portfolio and select committees have designed a new statute that brings into line the remuneration and conditions of employment of judges and Constitutional Court judges. They now enjoy similar benefits for active service and other benefits after discharge from active service.
The crux of this new arrangement is to be found in the new clauses 3 and 4 of the Bill, and these deal with discharge from active service and continuation of active service in certain circumstances. Clause 3 confirms the constitutionally entrenched principle that Constitutional Court judges leave the Constitutional Court on attaining the age of 70 years, or after completing a nonrenewable 12-year term of office.
Clause 4, however, following the scheme of the existing legislation pertaining to other judges, allows Constitutional Court judges, whose 12- year term of service has come to an end but who do not have 15 years’ active service, to stay on in the Constitutional Court until they have 15 years’ active service for pension purposes, whereupon they must be discharged from active service.
Clause 4 also allows a Constitutional Court judge to stay on in that court after attaining the age of 70 in order to complete 15 years’ active service. Like ordinary judges, Constitutional Court judges will not be able to stay on in that court after the age of 75.
Another two aspects about which I am very pleased are also contained in clause 4. This clause specifically provides that a Constitutional Court judge, who is discharged from active service in the Constitutional Court, can go back to either the Supreme Court of Appeal or to the High Court if he or she was a judge in one of those courts before being appointed to the Constitutional Court. This provision is only valid if that judge still qualifies to hold office as a judge in a permanent capacity.
Clause 4 also pertinently states that nothing precludes a Constitutional Court judge, who was not a judge before being appointed to that court, from being appointed to the Supreme Court of Appeal or to a High Court. But, again, this provision only holds if he or she still qualifies for such permanent appointment. Continuation in office as a judge in another court does however not entitle such a judge to a salary as a serving judge as well as to a salary which is payable after discharge from active service as a Constitutional Court judge. Only one salary will be payable and that is the salary of a serving judge.
I note that the provisions dealing with the performance of service after discharge from active service have been adapted slightly in the sense that judges, who are required to perform service in a court, will receive a salary which is payable to the holder of the office in which such a judge serves. The remuneration in respect of all other voluntary service by a judge after discharge from active service will be determined by the President, most probably in consultation with the judge in question.
I also note that the performance of service after discharge from active service will be more closely monitored by the Judicial Services Commission.
As I have already mentioned, this legislation will happily apply throughout the country. We are now in a position to discard some of the former homeland legislation, a rather sad reminder of our woeful past in which South Africa was split and divided into numerous highly artificial entities. The repeal of this legislation has required some elaborate transitional provisions in order to ensure that all judges and the service they have performed are captured within the scope of the legislation.
Before concluding, I want to repeat that the issues in the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill not dealt with now will stand over until next year. Should any unintended consequences arise from this legislation, there will be ample opportunity to address these issues when we return next year.
The Minister and I are indebted to both the portfolio and select committees for their dedication and enterprise in accommodating the varied and sharply contested arguments that surrounded this legislation. They have produced a Bill that serves the long-term interests of the Constitutional Court in that aspirants seeking to serve in this high office will no longer be discouraged by an unfavourable and comparatively disadvantageous remuneration package.
In seeking to eliminate this barrier, the committees have provided a solution that also addresses the concerns of those who were concerned about compromising the principle of a fixed term for Constitutional Court judges.
My thanks must go to the officials of the department who have assisted the committee responsible for guiding this legislation through Parliament. Here I would like to make special mention of Mr Lawrence Basset, who has championed this Bill on the department’s behalf.
I rise in support of this Bill. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, it gives me such a wonderful feeling to rise in support of this Bill.
We see it as a further necessary and desirable step in the process of simplifying the administration of justice, following the constitutional amendments dealing with the offices of the Chief Justice of South Africa and the Deputy Chief Justice, and those of the President and the Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Appeal, as well as the term of office of Constitutional Court judges.
This Bill emanates from the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill. Because of the complexity of issues and time constraints in dealing with that Bill, both committees, that is, the portfolio committee and the select committee, decided that the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill should be held in abeyance until the 2002 session of Parliament. The committee also felt that it should present its own Bill in terms of the Rules of Parliament, in order to deal with only those urgent matters pertaining to judges’ remuneration and conditions of employment which could not be put on hold until next year.
We attach significance and value to our judges, and this Bill is confined to amending the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, Act 88 of 1989, and the corresponding legislation of the former homelands, which is still applicable in those geographical areas. In essence, this Bill amends the principal Act so as to bring it in line with constitutional amendments to the effect that the head and deputy of the Supreme Court of Appeal will become the President and Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Appeal, respectively.
This Bill also extends the benefits of judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal and High Courts to Constitutional Court judges, which includes the extension of their terms of office in certain circumstances.
The Bill also provides that judges or their widows who receive pensions in terms of the Judges’ Pensions Act, Act 90 of 1979, which regulated the retirement dispensation of judges before the enactment of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act of 1989, will in future receive pensions which are coupled to the salaries of judges who are discharged from active service. This is necessary because the pensions of retired judges or the widows of judges who fall in this category are based on a formula which does not counter the effects of inflation. I would like to inform members that the inclusion of 7 June 1994 in the definition means that, with regard to Judge President Chaskalson, for example, who was appointed to this current position on that date, it removes doubt as to the precise meaning of his term and that of other judges of the Constitutional Court who were appointed thereafter.
In order to accommodate judges from the former TBVC states, the definition of ``judge’’ has been amended in such a way that it includes those judges who held office since the fixed date, and in this way all judicial officers will effectively be covered by the definition in this Bill.
I would like to associate myself with the sentiments that are being expressed in congratulating the team of people who have been responsible for this work. In order to get to the promised land, one must negotiate through the wilderness.
In conclusion, I would like to point out that both the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Amendment Bill, 2001, and the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill, 2001, do not contain commencement provisions, therefore it is consequently imperative to enact both pieces of legislation before 20 November 2001, since some of the provisions of this Bill emanate from the said constitutional amendments.
To the select committee members, I might not have suitable words to thank them for their untiring efforts. They really have been like a steam kettle: though up to its neck in hot water, it continues to sing, and no matter how deep the bottle is, the cream will always be on top. Let us support this Bill.
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, listening to the hon the Deputy Minister, I have to respectfully agree with her. All parties made a contribution to solving what seemed at one stage an intractable and insoluble problem that we had. But I have another problem. Listening to the hon the Deputy Minister’s speech, I sort of read my speech coming out into the debate already and I do not wish to bore the House by making it to listen to the same content four or five times.
I thought I had picked up two points that the Deputy Minister had not mentioned in her speech, but, to my disappointment, the hon Kgoshi Mokoena mentioned both of those items. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] We are basically in a very thorough committee, I must say. We have dealt with the problem and I must say I also sat in on some sessions of the portfolio committee. I watched the participatory governance being carried out in real life in a very effective way. We saw representatives of the judges presenting their feelings and arguments in the portfolio committee; we saw representatives of the legal profession doing the same and interested citizens made submissions either in writing or in person.
I can only say that at the end of this we will have a product that we will all be proud of. I know that my party supports this and I do not wish to labour the point any further.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I definitely have one point that I want to add that I have not heard yet, and it is just a technical provision in the Bill relating to the decision universally supported in the legal fraternity and judicial circles that the President of the Constitutional Court should be the Chief Justice.
We support that and trust that the incumbent Judge Chaskalson will now be in a position to fill the post of Chief Justice, because of these achievements, in spite of reaching the old mandatory retirement age of 70 at the end of November. We support his appointment as chief justice; he is without doubt our pre-eminent judge and will do honour to the post. The New NP supports the Bill. [Applause.]
Mrs C NKUNA: Chairperson, allow me to start by commending the opposition for the oneness they are showing from this committee. We have visited magistrates’ offices, police stations, as well as correctional services as a cluster, and we were all at one throughout our visits. So congratulations are due, especially to Mr Lever.
In dealing with this Bill, I think it is important, first of all, to sketch the context within which this Bill arose. The provisions of the Bill were initially contained in the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill, which was submitted after 17 August 2001. As members are aware, this particular date was the deadline for the submission of draft legislation to be considered during the 2001 parliamentary session. Since the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill was submitted after this deadline, Parliament could not deal with the Bill during the current session.
The Bill however contains a number of important provisions that emanate directly from the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Amendment Bill, such as the conversion of the Constitutional Court into the office of the Chief Justice and the provisions regarding the remuneration and conditions of employment of judges. These are important provisions which could not stand over until the 2002 session.
Given the importance of this provision the portfolio committee, in consultation with the select committee, decided to take these provisions out of the Judicial Officers Amendment Bill and bind them into a new statute which could still be considered during the current parliamentary session, hence the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill.
The main objectives of the Bill are the following: to give effect to the head of the Constitutional Court becoming the Chief Justice and the head of the Supreme Court of Appeal becoming the President of the Court of Appeal, in line with the constitutional amendments; to include the offices of Deputy Chief Justice and Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Appeal in the legislation relating to the remuneration and conditions of employment of all judges, as it is reflected in the Constitution; to extend the principles relating to the benefits of judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal and High Court to Constitutional Court judges; to extend the legislation relating to the remuneration of judges to all judges in South Africa, including those serving on the Bench of courts in the former homelands; and to provide for uniform principles relating to the pension of judges.
The remuneration of judges and the improvement in their conditions of employment have long been a priority for the South African Government. This is because the Government understands and accepts that our courts, together with the police, are in the front line of the fight against crime. Our courts act as the custodians of the fundamental human rights enshrined in our Constitution and as a defensive wall against anarchy and criminality. Its officials, therefore, deserve to be treated in a manner that will reinforce their commitment to upholding the constitutional rights and dignity of all South Africans.
Through this Bill the Government is showing its sincerity to address the concerns of judges and its commitment to bringing about equality between judicial officers. With these few words, I would like to thank the House.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Chairperson, there seems to be so much agreement on this that I will not belabour any point, save to say, to the committee and the individual hon members, a very big thank you for their constructive participation in this process. Some challenges are bigger than others and this was quite certainly something that could have fallen on hard ground, and I am grateful to all the members.
Just a small point that I think members must understand, is that this legislation forms part of the whole process of rationalising our new unitary process towards making the office of judge a unitary and unified office.
Secondly, as a point of interest, I can tell members our President was sworn in by the President of the Constitutional Court, but he was not the Chief Justice.
This new arrangement takes that uncertainty away. The late Judge Mahomed referred quite often to it being an uncomfortable situation, and that protocols were difficult to arrange. There was really this unease for all of us, because the institutional arrangements were not tidy. This legislation makes them very neat. My final congratulations and thanks go to the committee for their support. [Applause.] Debate concluded.
Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
INTERIM RATIONALISATION OF JURISDICTION OF HIGH COURTS BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, our history has left us with the anomalous situation where generally the areas of jurisdiction of our various High Courts do not match the geographical boundaries of our present constitutional dispensation.
The Constitution envisages a rationalisation of the judicial system in order to establish a system suited to its requirements. Not only does the new Constitution create new provinces, some of which do not have the facility of a High Court, but it also incorporates areas that form part of the so-called homelands, most of which did have their own High Courts. These courts kept their historic areas of jurisdiction under the new Constitution.
This left the country with a situation in which certain court resources were being underutilised, whilst other courts were being overstressed by the workloads. There were also other anomalous situations in which people may have lived a relatively short distance from a High Court, but be forced to travel a great distance to another High Court simply because they happened to live on the other side of what is now an irrelevant line on the map.
The hardships caused by this problem can be illustrated by situations that I encountered in my practice. I was consulted to bring an application for an urgent interdict where the applicants lived on one side of the national road, and some of the respondents lived on the same side of that road, whilst other respondents happened to live on the other side of the road. Due to this fact, it would have necessitated a simultaneous urgent application in two different High Courts more that 300 kilometres apart. This was beyond the means of the applicants, and I have always believed that they were denied access to justice because of this Act.
A commission of inquiry was set up to investigate how to rationalise this system in order to reflect the requirements of the new Constitution. This commission recommended a High Court in each of the nine provinces. It will take a considerable period of time to rationalise the judicial system in line with this commission’s recommendations.
The Interim Rationalisation of Jurisdiction of High Courts Bill is designed to provide more immediate relief. If the Minister determines that altering the area of jurisdiction of a High Court will promote the efficiency of, and equity relating to, the administration of justice, he may, after consultation with the Judicial Service Commission, and after it has been approved by Parliament, alter the area of such jurisdiction by publishing a notice to that effect in the Gazette.
This will not affect proceedings already instituted at the time of such publication, although with an appropriate application with notice to all parties concerned, such action may be transferred to another High Court if it appears that such action should have been instituted in that other High Court or if the court finds that it would be more convenient or appropriate that the action be heard in another High Court.
This Bill also enjoys the unanimous support of all parties represented on the committee, and we accordingly recommend that this House adopts it. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with Section 75 of the Constitution.
JUDICIAL MATTERS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, this Bill amends a number of different and diverse Acts that fall within the Justice cluster. It starts off by amending the 1929 Administration Amendment Act, to allow divorce courts established in terms of that Act to deal with matters arising out of the recognition of Customary Marriages Act, 1998.
This Bill then amends the Cross-Border Insolvency Act of 2000, to provide that the court may refuse a sequestration order when it appears equitable or convenient that the estate of a person domiciled in a state that has not been designated in terms of the Cross-Border Insolvency Act, should be sequestrated elsewhere.
It also amends section 19 of the Extradition Act, to provide for a case where a person is surrendered to the Republic by a designated country and not in terms of an extradition agreement. It will also amend sections 3 and 9 of the South African Law Commission Act, to bring this Act into line with the structure of the courts established in terms of the new Constitution. Members of this House may recall that a few weeks ago we dealt with a Correctional Services Amendment Bill which, in essence, provided for the relevant Minister, in consultation with the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, to authorise the release of awaiting-trial prisoners who had been granted bail but could not afford to pay such bail, where prison conditions had become seriously overcrowded.
The amendment proposed in this Bill has a similar purpose. The main difference between the two procedures proposed is that, in terms of the present Bill, the head of the prison concerned must apply to the relevant court to amend the bail conditions or release the accused on warning in lieu of bail, as opposed to the Minister of Correctional Services exercising a discretion in the matter.
It seems that the procedure set out in the Correctional Services Amendment Act will not be implemented, and the situation of overcrowding in respect of awaiting-trial prisoners will be dealt with in terms of the procedure set out in this Bill. The procedure set out in this Bill has more safeguards built into it, although it may take longer to implement and relieve the serious problem of overcrowding for awaiting-trial prisoners.
The committee felt that these safeguards were both desirable and necessary in the circumstances. The Bill also provides for the appointment of a clinical psychologist in certain incidental matters related thereto, when the mental capacity of an accused is called into question.
The Bill also provides that the Rules Board for Courts of Law Act, 1995, is amended to bring the designation of a member of the judiciary as a member of the board into line with the court structure, as set out in the new Constitution.
The Bill makes certain textual amendments to the schedule of the Hague Convention on Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction Act, 1996, to bring it into line with article 44 of the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.
The Bill amends the Maintenance Act, 1998, to provide that a person in whose favour a maintenance order has been granted may apply to any maintenance court in whose area of jurisdiction he or she may currently reside for the enforcement of such an order. In the past, such a person would have been confined to having the order enforced by the court which brought the order, regardless of whether or not he or she still lived in the area of jurisdiction of the court which originally granted the order.
The Bill also effects certain textual corrections to the Promotion of Access to Information Act of 2000 and the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act of 2000.
This Bill enjoys the support of all parties represented on the committee.
Debate concluded. Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
DEMOBILISATION AMENDMENT BILL
TERMINATION OF INTEGRATION INTAKE BILL
(Consideration of Bills and of Reports thereon)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE COUNCIL: Order! We are to deal with Orders 4 and 5. I note that the member of the executive responsible for the Bill is not in the House.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, we understand that the Minister is on her way. We have communicated with her office. I do not know what the reason for the delay is. May I ask that we adjourn for a short while. Alternatively, we could proceed with the debate and she could respond at the end of the debate.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I think we will proceed. I will ask Kgoshi Mokoena to introduce the Bill. This is most unusual. I know that programmes are published in time and I am a bit puzzled as to why we would have such a situation.
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, what an elevation! [Laughter.] There are people who put their lives on the line for this country to be free. Because of their guard and courage, it is possible for us to be in this Parliament. They sacrificed anything one can think of to free this country. Some died in the course of action. Some could not even get decent funerals, because of the unbearable situation then. There are those who have survived the onslaught. Who are these people? I am talking of none other than our heroes, members of MK, Apla and other relevant forces of various organisations. The said forces and those who belonged to the previous government, the then SADF, and the armies of the TBVC states, had to be integrated.
The successful integration of these forces is a powerful illustration of our democratic Government’s commitment to nation-building, reconciliation, unity and transformation. The main purpose of our integration process was to establish a new national defence force which is characterised by professionalism, effectiveness, efficiency and gender and racial representivity. The integration process was never going to be easy or trouble-free, given the political and logistical complexities of the merging forces, which were once sworn enemies. Problems have cropped up from time to time, but they have been dealt with in a constructive manner.
I hope that members are now aware that I am dealing with the Termination of Integration Intake Bill. The department had stipulated dates by which this process had to be finalised. The dates had to be staggered for the third time to allow those who might have been erroneously omitted to be taken in.
While it was necessary for the department to make sure that everybody was on board, there was no way that the process would be open-ended; there had to be a stop somewhere. This Bill now seeks to provide for a date by which this process has to be completed, since we are only amending some provisions of the principal Act. I am not going to deal with other logistics which are not relevant to this Bill.
The reason for this Bill serving before this Council is to propose that the integration process be completed on or before 31 March 2002. I hope members will find this in order. After the integration process, there may be those members of the force who might not be interested in pursuing a military career. There are those who say the mission has been accomplished and there are those who want to pursue other lines outside the Defence Force. These are the groups that want to be demobilised. They have applied for the demobilisation gratuity. The department has requested all those who want to be demobilised to forward their applications within a specified period. Some of those who did not qualify to be integrated because of various reasons also applied for the demobilisation gratuity. Again, the demobilisation process cannot go on forever.
I know that hon members are aware that we are now dealing with the Demobilisation Amendment Bill. In this Bill we are amending certain provisions of the Demobilisation Act of 1996, that is Act 99 of 1996. I will therefore not bore members by dealing with issues which relate to the principal Act. The Bill in front of us seeks to finalise the demobilisation process on or before 31 December 2002. All applications are to be in on or before that date. There will be no sense in keeping the process open indefinitely. This is what we are bringing to this Council for approval. Let us agree that the demobilisation process is to be completed on or before 31 December 2002. The Minister and his Deputy are ready, officials are ready, the select committee is ready, and it is my belief that hon members are also ready. Therefore, why should we not allow the department to do it?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take this opportunity to welcome the Deputy Minister who was somehow delayed, and I call upon her to address the House.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, I thank the House for bearing with me. I had a bit of an accident, but now I am here. These two Bills before the Council mark an important milestone in the history of the transformation of South Africa, specifically in the history of the South African military. As a result of the negotiation process a new force, the SA National Defence Force, was created on 27 April 1994, comprising the old SA Defence Force, the forces of the TBVC states and Umkhonto weSizwe, the armed wing of the ANC. At a later date the Azanian People’s Liberation Army, the armed wing of the PAC, became part of this process.
The new Constitution established a single defence force to be the only lawful military force in the Republic. The nonstatutory forces were identified by a certified personnel register commonly known as the CPR. This is in essence a register of the members of MK and Apla which has been verified. The completion of such a register was an achievement that has gone largely unrecognised. Guerrilla formations keep records differently from conventional military forces. The liberation movements kept records in the most difficult of circumstances. They were based in many different countries, and records, therefore, were not at any one time in one central point, as avoiding the capturing of names was paramount.
In addition, the levels of involvement in the underground, illegal organisations differed widely. Whilst, on the one hand, one would find combatants who had been trained militarily, they were housed and protected by civilians who, on the other hand, had no military training whatsoever. Had those civilians been caught and arrested, they would also have paid a high price, as some of them did, in a similar manner to those who received military training.
They also would have been imprisoned for many years or martyred. Who, therefore, can be classed as a member of the nonstatutory force, and who cannot? I am just illustrating the difficulty of compiling a certified personnel register.
Once settlement was made, it became an arduous and lengthy process to bring all the records into a centralised register. This explains the liberality with which we treated the timeframes surrounding the intake and integration process.
There was also suspicion as to the implications for the individuals at a time when there was so much violence in our country aimed at activists who had suspended the armed struggle. I am making this point to try and explain to the Council one aspect of the complexity of the process of integrating different armed formations into a single, united, military force.
These two Bills, as the chairperson has indicated, coming as they do seven to eight years since the start of the integration process, bear testimony to the fact that, to all intents and purposes, this process must be seen in the context of the need to accelerate full integration of all forces where all embrace the `one force’ concept.
I am pleased to report to the Council that with all the problems that can be imagined in the carrying out of this process, the SANDF has successfully managed this process and is now able to move on and to guide other countries facing the same challenges of integration.
In this case I want to remind members of the Freedom Day parade last year in Bloemfontein, which clearly demonstrated the strides our national Defence Force has made in this regard. The demobilisation of members of nonstatutory forces has better prepared us to find a more holistic and sustainable demobilisation programme that fully prepares ex-soldiers for a full and sustainable integration into active civilian life, which will add value to the Department of Defence’s demobilisation process, which will continue into the future.
The Termination of Integration Intake Bill seeks to bring to an end the process of taking in members of MK and Apla for integration purposes. There will be an intake from 19 November to 4 December of around 175 persons, and the final intake will take place early next year, if necessary, before the final date, just to make sure that a door has been left ajar for any latecomers.
The Demobilisation Amendment Bill amends the definition of `closing date’ by providing that the closing date shall be 31 December 2002, as the chairperson has indicated. This new date is fixed so as to allow members of MK and Apla who, for various reasons, are unable to meet the employment requirements of the SANDF, to demobilise.
The Portfolio Committee on Defence held a public hearing on these two Bills. This gave the Veterans’ Associations of both MK and Apla a chance to raise issues of concern with the oversight committee. Recommendations coming from the oversight committee will be accommodated by the department, as much as we can.
The successful integration of seven military formations into a single, lawful, loyal and professional military force is one of democratic South Africa’s most shining achievements. This national Defence Force unites young South Africans from seven different forces, and we are proud to say that despite the problems we have faced we have successfully managed this process. I am pleased that this Bill is before this House, and look forward to input by hon members of this House [Applause.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, as the Demobilisation Amendment Bill only seeks to amend the definition of the closing date in the principal Act and as all relevant Government departments were consulted before the Bill was referred to the Cabinet, and as the financial implication will be dealt with through the current Budget, the NNP supports this Bill.
In connection with the Termination of Integration Intake Bill, the following concerns me.
The Department of Defence planned to have a final intake during November as they anticipated the end of integration on 31 December 2001. As this date has been moved back to 31 March 2002, it can cause logistical problems for the SA Army as they are also busy with the final intake and new recruits from the school-leavers. I would appreciate it if the hon the Minister could elaborate on how they anticipate dealing with or are dealing with this challenge as we are already in the month of November.
Determining the final date for the former MK and Apla members to be integrated into the SANDF also symbolises a period of normalisation in the new democratic order in South Africa, and, therefore, it is a pleasure for the NNP to support this Bill.
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, today we are dealing with the issue of demobilisation, which, after all, is not unique to our country. This is an issue which is universal and historic in nature. The demobilisation process takes place after cessation of hostilities, when a certain number of former combatants who are no longer required for defence needs voluntarily want to demobilise. They have to be assisted to go back into civil society and find their feet.
This Bill amends the Demobilisation Act of 1996 so as to make it possible to demobilise members of Apla and MK who are unable to conclude agreements of appointment with the SA National Defence Force on account of them not satisfying the terms and conditions of service of the SANDF, or those who no longer wish to pursue a military career. The closing date for the submission of an application for a demobilisation gratuity will be 31 December 2001.
Th Demobilisation Bill serves to assist the former combatants of the former liberation forces, namely uMkhonto weSizwe or MK and Apla, who cannot or do not intend to join the SANDF for the particular reasons that I have mentioned above. The specific recognition of these liberation forces in respect of their rights as nonstatutory forces to integrate stems from the Transitional Executive Council Act of 1993. Their successful integration into society is, after all, in the best interest of our country and of peace and stability. It is part of normalisation of our society.
As some of us know, the demobilisation programme commenced in 1995 when it became apparent that not all former MK and Apla members wished to join and that there were also some who did wish to join, but for reasons like age, health problems, disability, or because they did not succeed in terms of specific potential tests, they could not be guaranteed a secure career in the Defence Force.
On the other hand, integration has been ongoing since 1994. Section 236(18)(d) of the interim Constitution which continues to be in force by virtue of item 24 of Schedule 6 of the Constitution, provides that the continuance of membership of the SANDF by members of the nonstatutory forces will be subject to such members entering into an agreement for temporary or permanent appointment in the SANDF. These members of the nonstatutory forces were required to enter into the agreement within a reasonable time.
This Bill, the Termination of Integration Intake Bill seeks to provide a legal framework for the termination of the intake of members of Apla and MK for integration purposes.
This Bill provides that members of Apla and MK who are eligible to conclude agreements with the SANDF should do so before 31 March 2002.
In brief, the Bill also provides for the integration of members of Apla and MK whose names appear in the certified personnel register or personnel list and who have been granted amnesty in terms of the promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act of 1995 after 31 March 2002.
In conclusion, I would like to highlight that our country has the responsibility to recognise in an even-handed way the right of those MK and Apla combatants, who served our country in the armed liberation struggle, to qualify for a demobilisation gratuity and integration on the basis of exercising their right to join or not to join the SANDF. [Applause.]
Mnr J L THERON: Voorsitter, voldoende tyd is, ingevolge artikel 236(8)(d) van die tussentydse grondwet, toegelaat vir die integrering van lede van die verskillende weermagte in die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Weermag. Nou, sewe en ‘n half jaar later, is dit duidelik dat die tyd vir integrasie verstryk het.
Dié uitgangspunt word ondersteun deur die hoof van die SANW, genl Nyanda, al die lede van die Portefeuljekomitee vir Verdediging en al die lede van die Gekose Komitee vir Veiligheid en Grondwetlike Aangeleenthede. Almal is dit eens dat ‘n redelike tyd verloop het. Die datum vir die beëindiging van integrasie in die SANW is vasgestel op 31 Maart 2001.
Tydens ‘n voorlegging aan die Gesamentlike Komitee vir Verdediging het lede gehoor die gemiddelde koste verbonde aan die integrasie van nie-statutêre lede beloop gemiddeld R69 991. Hierdie koste moet verhaal word uit die werwingsbegroting vir die boekjaar 2001-02. Dit verminder dus die SANW se vermoë om nuwe lede te werf, wat aanwendingsprobleme kan veroorsaak.
Die sterkte van die Weermag het soos volg gewissel: In 1994 was daar 82 700 lede; in 1996, 101 110; en in 2001, 78 701. Die verdedigingsoorsigriglyn vir die SANW is 70 000 lede. Hiervolgens is dit duidelik dat regstelling nog gedoen en nuwe lede nog geïntegreer moet word. Die probleme volg dus ooglopend. Die getalle moet verminder word, en die huidige lede word ouer en kan nie meer almal effektief operasioneel aangewend word nie. Nuwe innames raak dus al hoe noodsaakliker om in die huidige behoeftes te kan voorsien.
Aangaande die Wetsontwerp op Demobilisasie: diegene wat nie geregtig is om ingevolge die bepalinge en vereistes van die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Weermag se indiensnemingsvereistes te kwalifiseer nie, asook diegene wat uit eie keuse besluit om nie te integreer nie, en op voorwaarde dat diesulkes se name op die gesertifiseerde personeelregister verskyn, sal geregtig wees om te demobiliseer op 31 Desember 2001. Demobilisasie binne hierdie verband beteken die uitbetaling van ‘n bedrag van R34 413. Hierdie uitgawes moet natuurlik ook kom uit die werwingsbegroting vir 2001-02.
Ek wil ook praat oor die pensioene van ander lede. Nie alle veterane het pensioene ontvang nie. In hierdie verband dink ons veral aan die Kaapse Korps wat niks ontvang het nie. Ek wil graag ‘n beroep op die agb Adjunkminister doen om hierop te reageer, en ek hoop dat optrede in hierdie verband sal volg. Die agb Thandi Modise, die voorsitter van die staande komitee, het dieselfde punt geopper in die Nasionale Vergadering, en ons verwag optrede in dié verband. Baie van hierdie lede van die Kaapse Korps het baie goeie diens gelewer, en ontvang nou niks in die verband nie.
Graag wil ek weer eens alle lede herinner om Sondag die elfde van die elfde maand, November, om 11-uur die oggend twee minute stilte te handhaaf, by geskikte byeenkomste, om alle gestorwenes in alle oorloë te gedenk. Dit is ‘n gebruik wat wêreldwyd gevolg word, en ons kan dus gerus ook ons bydrae lewer. Om af te sluit, dit is belangrik dat hierdie prosesse van integrasie en demobilisering afgesluit word. Dit is uiters belangrik dat Suid-Afrika oor een eensgesinde nasionale weermag moet beskik. Die doelwit vorentoe moet dus wees om ‘n hoogs professionele, hoogs opgeleide, effektiewe en gefokusde weermag daar te stel waarop alle Suid-Afrikaners trots kan wees. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, in terms of section 236(8)(d) of the interim Constitution sufficient time was allowed for the integration of members of the various defence forces into the South African National Defence Force. Now, seven and a half years later, it is clear that the time for integration is over.
This point of departure is supported by the Chief of the SANDF, Gen Nyanda, all the members of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and all the members of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs. Everyone is in agreement that a reasonable period has elapsed. The date for ending integration into the SANDF was determined as being 31 March 2001.
During a submission to the Joint Committee on Defence members heard that the average cost involved in the integration of nonstatutory members amount to about R69 991. These costs must be recovered from the recruitment budget for the 2001-02 financial year. This as a result reduces the ability of the SANDF to recruit new members, which could cause problems relating to employment.
The strength of the Defence Force varied as follows: In 1994 there were 82 700 members; in 1996 there were 101 110 and in 2001 there were 78 701. The defence review guideline for the SANDF is 70 000 members. From this it becomes clear that rectification still has to take place and that new members still have to be integrated. Problems therefore obviously follow. Numbers must be reduced, and the current members are getting older and not all of them can be used effectively operationally any longer. New recruits are therefore becoming increasingly essential in order to meet the present requirements.
As far as the Demobilisation Bill is concerned: Those who are not entitled to qualify, in terms of the provisions and requirements of the employment conditions of the SA National Defence Force, as well as those who of their own free will decide not to be integrated, and on condition that the names of such persons appear on the certified personnel register, will be entitled to demobilise on 31 December 2001. Demobilisation in this context means the payment of an amount of R34 413. These expenses must naturally come from the recruitment budget for 2001-02.
I also want to speak about the pensions of other members. Not all veterans received pensions. In this regard we are thinking of the Cape Corps in particular, who did not receive anything. I would like to appeal to the hon the Minister to react to this, and I hope that action will follow in this regard. The hon Thandi Modise, the chairperson of the standing committee, raised the same point in the National Assembly and we expect action in this regard. Many of these members of the Cape Corps rendered very good service, and now do not receive anything.
I would like to remind members once again Sunday the eleventh of the eleventh month, November, at 11 o’clock in the morning to maintain two minutes of silence, at appropriate gatherings, to commemorate all those who have died in all wars. This is a custom that is followed all over the world, and we may very well also make our contribution.
To conclude, it is important that these processes of integration and demobilisation are concluded. It is extremely important that South Africa should have one unified national defence force. The objective in the future should therefore be to establish a highly professional, highly trained, effective and focused defence force of which all South Africans can be proud. [Applause.]]
Mr M J BHENGU: Chairperson, colleagues, it would appear that the two Bills are actually aimed at streamlining the department’s activities. The chairperson of the select committee and the Deputy Minister have illustrated and explained the intentions of the two Bills. It seems as if, from what the previous speakers have said, it does not look like there is any hanky-panky.
The IFP supports the Bill, because we feel that it is fundamentally important that we have a strong army to protect our democratic country and to protect our citizens. [Applause.]
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, hon members, I rise to make a statement basically on the occasion of the passing of both the Demobilisation Amendment Bill and the Termination of Integration Intake Bill. As it has been pointed out by other members, including, of course, our hon Deputy Minister, in terms of the objects of the Bills before the House, I would not really want to belabour the points already made, except to briefly make two very critical points which relate to both the processes of integration and demobilisation.
In relation to both pieces of legislation, whilst these processes were fairly successful and benefited our new Defence Force and, presumably, those of our people who remained in the force, the net effect of, particularly, demobilisation was somewhat negative for the majority of those who had to leave the force. It has therefore become crucial that we, as legislators and as a country, should and must address the situation of those of our people who were negatively affected by demobilisation as a matter of extreme urgency.
I think that this would require, on all our part, clear policy shifts, to some extent, away from the mere processes of transformation of the security institutions towards a policy that is aimed, in the main, at and benefits those of our people who were adversely affected or will be affected by whatever changes are being contemplated. In this regard, I think that particular attention should, therefore, be paid to those who remain jobless and those who are poverty-stricken, since the potential security threat lies with the disgruntled and demobilised persons. I felt that I needed to put this message across.
The second point obviously relates to the whole process of integration. There was no one amongst us who, at some stage, said that this process of integration was going to be smooth sailing and hunky-dory in terms of how we were going to deal with this process. Numerous problems emerged in the process which I feel, to a very large extent, were addressed. But I think that we have to grapple with the problems that remain in order to ensure that, at the end of the day, we are all able to continue to foster in society, in relation to the SA National Defence Force, an army that is needed to meet international standards of competence and professionalism.
We need to be able to meet this most important and strategic objective of ensuring that the kind of defence we have serves to uphold peace and security. That would ensure that we are able to create a stable environment for all our people’s lives and for the development and progress of our country.
In conclusion, I want to say that whatever we do as a country, legislators and politicians sitting in this hallowed Chambers this afternoon - across the political spectrum and divide - we should seek to contribute to achieving these set objectives in the most practical of ways. Quite frankly, if we do not begin to do that as legislators across the political divide and spectrum, as I have pointed out, I think that that in itself will be tantamount to committing what I shall refer to as political hara- kiri on all our part. I think that the amendments to this legislation are absolutely desirable. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I will now call upon the hon the Deputy Minister to respond to the hara-kiri, self- demolition. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson and hon members of the Council, I really appreciate the input of the members and their support for this process, which helps the Department of Defence to achieve exactly what the members have indicated as necessary in this country in order to achieve normalisation and stabilisation.
As I indicated in my input, we must congratulate our National Defence Force on the manner in which they were able to unite seven different forces coming from totally different backgrounds. They were able to put their differences aside for the sake of our country.
With regard to some of the concerns that were raised, we are looking forward to the recommendations of the portfolio and select committees on this matter. As I have indicated, we will take into account members’ recommendations in as far as those areas that need to be ironed out are concerned. But, in terms of the closing date that we have set, we do not expect a sudden influx of people that need to be integrated. As it is, we have catered for 175 persons, but we have left the door open in case there are some last-minute applications.
But I want to say, in this regard, that we have set a date for demobilisation to December 2000. This is precisely to allow the department to cater for the demands that may arise because of demobilisation. We are quite prepared for this, and have budgeted for it.
Perhaps at this point I should say that integration was never going to be an easy process. As it is right now, we have established - and I want to make this announcement - a Military Veterans Association Board, which advises the Minister of Defence on any matter relating to any veterans. This is an inclusive process as we also have veterans from the former SADF, and I am hoping that those people that were mentioned, such as those from the Cape Coloured Corps, will make use of this structure to inform the Minister about their specific situation. But I must say that every formation that came forward was given a chance to state its case.
I would therefore end by thanking members for their contributions and for their positive approach to the Bill that is before us. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Demobilisation Amendment Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Termination of Integration Intake Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE TREATY BETWEEN RSA AND LESOTHO
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, over the past few years the South African Government has entered into a number of mutual legal assistance treaties in criminal matters with other countries. This is because South Africans realise that criminals do not confine themselves to geographical boundaries. Their activities are spread across state boundaries and are helped by the technological explosion brought about by globalisation.
The international nature of many criminal enterprises has necessitated closer co-operation between governments. The treaty on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters between South Africa and Lesotho is a very important tool in the fight against crime both in South Africa and in Lesotho.
Given the proximity of these two countries, it is easy for criminals to commit crimes in either country, and then merely to slip across the border between the two countries in an attempt to evade prosecution. This has, for example, happened in cases where livestock thieves enter either South Africa or Lesotho and then hustle cattle and other animals across the border.
Since both countries are sovereign states, it is impossible for the police of either of these countries to enter each other’s territory in pursuit of these animals in the absence of express permission from either government. The treaty on mutual co-operation will assist the law enforcement agencies of both countries to deal with this and other crime problems.
The treaty seeks to improve the co-operation between the two countries on criminal matters, such as stock theft, by providing a vehicle through which assistance with regard to criminal matters can be obtained.
Pursuant to a request under the treaty, the requested authority may locate persons; supply official records; execute searches and seizure of property; and arrange for the appearance of witnesses or experts before the relevant judicial authority.
The treaty is also very clear in terms of the process that needs to be followed with regard to the format the request for assistance should take. In all cases, the request for assistance must indicate the competent authority conducting the investigation; the nature of the investigations; the purpose of the request; the nature of the assistance sought; and any time limit within which the request for assistance should be executed.
With the conclusion of this treaty, our Government and the government of the Kingdom of Lesotho are warning criminals that neither country will allow their territory to be used for the perpetuation of criminal activities against the other.
Lastly, together with the extradition treaty concluded between the two countries, we have no doubt that the space within which criminals are operating is becoming smaller and smaller. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - EXTRADITION TREATY BETWEEN RSA AND LESOTHO
Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, hon members, section 2(1)(a) of the Extradition Act, Act 67 of 1962, provides that the President may, on such conditions as he may deem fit but subject to the provisions of the Act, enter into an agreement with any foreign state providing for the surrender, on a reciprocal basis, of a person accused or convicted of the commission, within the jurisdiction of the Republic or such state or any territory under the sovereignty or protection of such state, of an extraditable offence specified in such agreement.
Section 2(3)(a) of the Extradition Act provides that no such agreement or any amendment shall be of force or effect until ratification or amendment of such agreement has been agreed to by Parliament. The President of South Africa approved the treaty on 19 April 2001, and it was signed by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development and his Lesotho counterpart on that date in Maseru.
Section 231(2) of the Constitution provides that an international agreement binds the Republic only after it has been approved by resolution in both Houses, the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces, unless it is an agreement referred to in section 231(3).
The purpose of the treaty is to ensure our effective co-operation in the prevention and suppression of crime, and also to indicate to the rest of the world that South Africa will not be a safe haven for criminals. This extradition treaty is the same as other treaties that South Africa signed with countries such as Australia, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the United States of America.
The Minister for Law and Order and Constitutional Affairs of the Kingdom of Lesotho and the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development of the Republic of South Africa and their respective prosecuting authorities or a person designated by them may at any time consult with each other, directly or through the facilities of Interpol, in connection with the processing of individual cases and in furtherance of the efficient implementation of this treaty. In conclusion, upon the coming into force of this treaty, the extradition agreement between the Government of South Africa and the Kingdom of Lesotho signed in Cape Town on 20 June 1995, shall cease to have effect. Nevertheless, the prior agreement shall apply to any extradition proceedings in which the extradition documents have been submitted to the courts of the requested state at the time this treaty enters into force.
We therefore support the ratification of this treaty. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL LAW STATUTE OF HAGUE CONFERENCE
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, as it is expected, heads of delegations will vote on behalf of the provinces after they have applied their minds to this statute. However, I would like to request them to at least listen to what I have to say, because it might be the first time that they encounter anything about the statute.
The statute came into force on 26 August 1955, and it sets out the object of the conference as being to unify the rules of private international law. The secretary-general of the conference in the Hague, Netherlands, made numerous calls to South Africa to become a member of this conference. As a result of the calls to join the conference, various interested parties were consulted for their views, and the majority of them supported the membership for the following reasons. Membership of the conference would advance South Africa’s participation as a full member of the international community. Being a member state of the conference, South Africa would keep pace with foremost international developments. This is so because bigger jurisdictions, such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, who are member states of the conference and whose legal systems are like ours, which is based on Roman Dutch law and English law, have undergone rapid changes, particularly in the field of private international law.
Furthermore, membership of the conference would promote South Africa’s economic and trade co-operation with trading partners who are mostly members of this conference. Present and future conventions of the conference would bring about legal uniformity in respect of rules of private international law between member states who are parties to such conventions and, secondly, serve to avoid time-consuming and cumbersome bilateral agreements.
Permanent membership of the conference may contain particular political benefits, consolidate South Africa’s position as leader of Africa and also strengthen its influence in the whole of Africa. The fields covered by the conference are matters of great concern in respect of South Africa’s relationship with other countries. Membership will certainly facilitate the application of rules of private international law by our courts. Membership will facilitate accession to other conventions which South Africa has not yet acceded to.
South Africa’s membership of the conference is of vital importance for the administration of justice in South Africa. The convention abolishing the requirement of legislation for foreign public documents is working well in South Africa and sets an example as to valuable benefits which may be derived from South Africa’s membership of the conference and eventual accession to other remaining conventions. Furthermore, the conference operates on an equal footing with member and nonmember states, recognising equal sovereignty of states.
Membership of the conference would be in line with South Africa’s return to the international community. Membership would strengthen South Africa’s attempts to form closer links with the EU. Since it is not so unusual now to come across litigation concerning contracts, or the negotiation and approval of contracts that have an international aspect, membership of the conference may be very beneficial. Membership of the conference would be in line with South Africa’s Constitution, which expressly recognises the important role of international law in our legal system.
Trade relations with member states will necessitate the making of new inroads into the field of private international law, with reference to the law of contracts, recognition of companies and jurisdiction as well as enforcement of foreign judgments. The following words of John Dugard set out further reasons in favour of membership:
Acceptance of values upon which modern international law is founded will inevitably make South Africa acceptable to the international community. In these circumstances a renaissance of international law is likely both in South Africa’s foreign policy and in the jurisprudence of its courts.
It is also important to mention that South Africa has acceded to the following conventions of the conference we are discussing: The Convention on the Conflicts of Law Relating to Formal Testimony Dispositions; the Convention Abolishing the Requirement of Legislation for Foreign Public Documents; the Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Judgments in Civil and Commercial Matters; the Convention on the Taking of Evidence Abroad in Civil or Commercial Matters; and the Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction, to which the hon Lever referred earlier today.
The department, through the Department of Foreign Affairs, requested the Government of the Netherlands to support South Africa’s nomination as a member of the conference. The majority of the members of the conference then voted in support of South Africa’s membership.
In view of the above, South Africa became a member of the conference. The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs having considered, through a request for approval by Parliament, that the Republic of South Africa accede to the statute of the Hague Conference on Private International Law referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of article 6 of the statute, designate the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development as the national office for the purpose of communication with the members of the conference and the permanent bureau.
As the delegates and heads of delegations applied their minds and listened to me thoroughly, I now request members of this House to support this statute of the Hague Conference on Private International Law. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you for your well- researched paper. I did not see you. I was thinking that, because of the changing political landscape, you have changed your name also.
Debate concluded.
Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. The Council adjourned at 16:01. _____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 7 NOVEMBER 2001
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
The Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 84 - 2001] was introduced in
the National Assembly by the Minister of Finance on 7 November 2001. In
accordance with resolutions passed by the National Assembly and the
National Council of Provinces on 11 October 2001, the Bill has been
referred to a joint committee established in terms of Joint Rule 111.
The Bill has been referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160. National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bill passed by National Assembly on 7 November 2001 and transmitted for
concurrence:
Unemployment Insurance Bill [B 3B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Labour and Public
Enterprises of the National Council of Provinces.
- The Chairperson:
Comments received from Telkom Limited on section 96(1)(b) and (c) of
the Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65B - 2001] are referred to
the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises for information. TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Report of the Auditor-General on Auditing and Financial
Management Matters in the Public Sector [RP 265-2001].
(2) Report and Financial Statements of the Auditor-General for 2000-
2001 [RP 200-2001].
(3) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and Fiscal
Commission for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000 [RP 197-2001].
(4) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and Fiscal
Commission for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 201-2001].
- The Minister of Finance:
(1) Government Notice No R.997 published in Government Gazette No
22723 dated 2 October 2001, Recognition of Stock Exchanges in
terms of the definition of "Recognised Exchange" in Paragraph 1 of
the Eighth Schedule to the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of
1962).
(2) Government Notice No R.1036 published in Government Gazette No
22752 dated 12 October 2001, Notice in terms of Regulation 4(3) of
the Exchange Control Regulations, 1961.
(3) Explanatory Memorandum on the Second Revenue Laws Amendment
Bill, 2001 [WP 3-2001]. COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill [B 83 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having
considered the subject of the Judges' Remuneration and Conditions of
Employment Bill [B 83 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to
it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:
CLAUSE 1
1. On page 2, in line 19, to omit "and" and to substitute "or".
CLAUSE 3
Clause rejected.
NEW CLAUSE
1. That the following be a new Clause:
Discharge of Constitutional Court judges and judges from active
service
3. (1) A Constitutional Court judge who holds office in terms of
section 176(1) of the Constitution -
(a) must, subject to the provisions of section 4(1) or (2), be
discharged from active service as a Constitutional Court
judge, on the date on which he or she -
(i) attains the age of 70 years; or
(ii) has completed a 12-year term of office as a
Constitutional Court judge, whichever occurs first;
(b) may at any time be discharged by the President from active
service as a Constitutional Court judge if he or she becomes
afflicted with a permanent infirmity of mind or body which
renders him or her incapable of performing his or her official
duties; or
(c) may at any time on his or her request and with the
approval of the President be discharged from active service as
a Constitutional Court judge if there is any reason which the
President deems sufficient.
(2) A judge who holds office in a permanent capacity-
(
a) shall, subject to the provisions of section 4(4), be discharged
from active service as a judge on the date on which he or she
attains the age of 70 years, if he or she has on that date
completed a period of active service of not less than 10
years, or, if he or she has on that date not yet completed a
period of 10 years' active service, on the date immediately
following the day on which he or she completes a period of 10
years' active service;
(b) who has already attained the age of 65 years and has
performed active service for a period of 15 years, and who
informs the Minister in writing that he or she no longer
wishes to perform active service, shall be discharged by the
President from active service as a judge;
(c) may at any time be discharged by the President from active
service as a judge if he or she becomes afflicted with a
permanent infirmity of mind or body which renders him or her
incapable of performing his or her official duties; or
(d) may at any time on his or her request and with the
approval of the President be discharged from active service as
a judge if there is any reason which the President deems
sufficient.
CLAUSE 4
Clause rejected.
NEW CLAUSE
1. That the following be a new Clause:
Continuation of active service by Constitutional Court judges and
judges
4. (1) A Constitutional Court judge whose 12-year term of office as
a Constitutional Court judge expires before he or she has
completed 15 years' active service must, subject to subsection
(2), continue to perform active service as a Constitutional
Court judge to the date on which he or she completes a period of
15 years' active service, whereupon he or she must be discharged
from active service as a Constitutional Court judge.
(2) A Constitutional Court judge who, on attaining the age of
70 years, has not yet completed 15 years' active service,
must continue to perform active service as a Constitutional
Court judge to the date on which he or she completes a
period of 15 years' active service or attains the age of 75
years, whichever occurs first, whereupon he or she must be
discharged from active service as a Constitutional Court
judge.
(3) (a) A Constitutional Court judge who is discharged from
active service in terms of section 3(1) or subsection (1)
or (2) and who is also a judge contemplated in section
174(5) of the Constitution, may continue to perform active
service as a judge in the court in which he or she held
office as such immediately before he or she was appointed
as a Constitutional Court judge if-
(i) he or she indicates his or her willingness to do so
in writing to the President three months before he or
she is so discharged from active service; and
(ii) he or she still qualifies to hold office as such a
judge in a permanent capacity in terms of section
3(2) or subsection (4).
(b) Nothing in this Act precludes a Constitutional Court judge
-
(i) who is discharged from active service in terms of
section 3(1) or subsection (1) or (2); and
(ii) who is not a judge contemplated in section 174(5) of
the Constitution, from being appointed to the office
of judge in a court other than the Constitutional
Court by the President on the advice of the Judicial
Service Commission as contemplated in the
Constitution, if he or she still qualifies to hold
office as such a judge in a permanent capacity in
terms of section 3(2) or subsection (4).
(c) The holding of office by a judge referred to in paragraph
(a) or (b) -
(i) interrupts that judge's discharge from active service
in terms of section 3(1) or subsection (1) or (2);
and
(ii) suspends any salary payable in terms of section 5 to
that judge pursuant to such discharge from active
service.
(d) The holding of office by a judge referred to in paragraph
(a) or (b), entitles such a judge to an annual salary which
-
(i) is payable in terms of section 2; and
(ii) may not be less than the annual salary applicable to
the highest office held as a Constitutional Court
judge or a judge.
(4) A judge who on attaining the age of 70 years has not yet
completed 15 years' active service, may continue to perform
active service to the date on which he or she completes a
period of 15 years' active service or attains the age of 75
years, whichever occurs first, whereupon he or she must be
discharged from active service as a judge.
CLAUSE 5
1. On page 5, in line 35, to omit "section 3(1)(a), (c) or (d),
3(2) or 4(1), (2) or (3)" and to substitute "section 3(1),
3(2)(a), (c) or (d) or 4(1), (2) or (4)".
2. On page 5, in line 42, to omit "section 3(1)(b)" and to
substitute "section 3(2)(b)".
3. On page 5, in line 46, to omit "section 3(1)(c) or (d) or
3(2)(b) or (c)" and to substitute "section 3(1)(b) or (c) or
3(2)(c) or (d)".
CLAUSE 6
1. On page 6, in line 26, to omit " section 4(1)" and to substitute
"section 4(4)".
CLAUSE 7
1. On page 6, in line 41, to omit "section 3(1)(b), (c) or (d) or
(2)(b) or (c)" and to substitute "section 3(1)(b) or (c) or
(2)(b), (c) or (d)".
CLAUSE 8
1. On page 7, in line 30, to omit "section 3(2)(a) or 4(2) or (3)"
and to substitute "section 3(1)(a) or 4(1) or (2)".
2. On page 7, in line 36, to omit "section 3(1)(a) or 4(1)" and to
substitute "section 3(2)(a) or 4(4)".
CLAUSE 13
1. On page 9, in line 26, to omit "and" and to substitute "or".
CLAUSE 16
1. On page 10, from line 34, to omit subsection (4) and to
substitute:
(4)(a) Any person who retired as a judge in terms of the Judges'
Pensions Act, 1978 (Act No. 90 of 1978), and who, at the
commencement of this section, receives a pension in terms
of the said Judges' Pensions Act, 1978, is, from the date
of commencement of this section, entitled to an amount
equal to two thirds of the salary payable to a judge
contemplated in section 5(1) of this Act who held the same
or a similar office to that of the retired judge on the
date of the latter's retirement from office and who has the
same number of years' service in an acting or permanent
capacity.
(b) After the commencement of this section, any surviving
spouse of a judge referred to in paragraph (a) shall be
paid with effect from the first day of the month
immediately succeeding the day on which the judge died, an
amount equal to one half of the amount to which his or her
deceased spouse would have been entitled under paragraph
(a).
(c) Any surviving spouse of a judge who retired as a judge in
terms of the Judges' Pensions Act, 1978, and who, at the
commencement of this section, receives a pension in terms
of the said Act, is, from the date of commencement of this
section, entitled to an amount equal to one half of the
amount to which his or her deceased spouse would have been
entitled under paragraph (a).
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Interim Rationalisation of Jurisdiction of High Courts Bill [B 44B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Interim Rationalisation of Jurisdiction of High Courts Bill [B 44B - 2001] (National Assembly
- sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 43B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 43B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Demobilisation Amendment Bill [B 5B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Demobilisation Amendment Bill [B 5B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Termination of Integration Intake Bill [B 6B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Termination of Integration Intake Bill [B 6B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Lesotho Extradition Treaty, dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Lesotho on Extradition, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Lesotho Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Lesotho on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Hague Conference Statute on Private International Law, dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Statute of the Hague Conference on Private International Law, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Statute.
The Committee is of the opinion that, in accordance with Article 6 of the Statute, the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development should be designated as the national office for the purpose of communication with the members of the Conference and the Permanent Bureau.
Report to be considered.
THURSDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2001
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Minister of Health submitted the Wysigingswetsontwerp op
Mediese Skemas [W 80 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the
Speaker and the Chairperson on 8 November 2001. This is the
official translation of the Medical Schemes Amendment Bill [B 80 -
2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the
National Assembly by the Minister on 3 October 2001.
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 8 November 2001: To be
submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Interim Rationalisation of Jurisdiction of High Courts Bill [B
44B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 43B - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(iii) Demobilisation Amendment Bill [B 5B - 2001] (National Assembly -
sec 75).
(iv) Termination of Integration Intake Bill [B 6B - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
- The Chairperson:
The following members have been appointed to serve on the Mediation
Committee, viz:
Ackermann, Mr C Western Cape New NP
Dlulane, Ms B N Eastern Cape ANC
Fenyane, Mr S L E Northern Province ANC
Kgoali, Ms J L Gauteng ANC
Ralane, Mr T Free State ANC
Sulliman, Mr M A Northern Cape ANC
Surty, Mr M E North West ANC
Themba, Ms M P Mpumalanga ANC
Thomson, Ms B KwaZulu-Natal ANC
- The Chairperson:
The following papers were tabled and are now referred to the relevant
committee as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises:
Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Housing for
2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2000-2001.
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Security and Constitutional Affairs:
(i) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt in
respect of Police Cooperation, tabled in terms of section
231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(ii)Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria
in respect of Police Cooperation, tabled in terms of section
231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Human Rights
Commission for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- Report of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 31 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having
considered the subject of the Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65B
- 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill
with proposed amendments, as follows:
CLAUSE 1
1. On page 3, in line 34, after "handover" to insert "between
cells".
NEW CLAUSE
1. That the following be a new Clause:
Amendment of section 89 of Act 103 of 1996
30. Section 89 of the principal Act is hereby amended-
(a) by the substitution for subsection (1) of the
following subsection:
"(1) The Authority shall prescribe-
(a) a numbering plan for use in respect of
telecommunication services; and
(b) measures to ensure that number
portability shall be introduced in 2005,
including-
(i) the creation of a national number
portability database; and
(ii) cost allocation and cost recovery
among licensees."; and
(b) by the addition of the following subsections:
"(4) The numbering plan contemplated in subsection
(1)(a) shall be non-discriminatory.
(5) The Authority shall maintain and manage a
central numbering database system.
(6) Every operator shall submit information on all
numbers, including numbers of pre-paid
subscribers, allocated to subscribers in terms of
its licence to the Authority.".
CLAUSE 30
1. On page 22, after line 28, to insert the following proposed new
section:
Carrier pre-selection
89C.(1) The Authority shall prescribe regulations-
(a) establishing a framework for facilities in terms of
which subscribers to a telecommunication service can
access the services of an interconnected national long
distance telecommunication operator and an
international telecommunication operator; and
(b) requiring all holders of public switched
telecommunication services licences to phase in the
facilities referred to in paragraph (a) by not later
than 31 December 2003.
(2) The framework contemplated is subsection (1) shall
ensure that the implementation and maintenance of the
facilities referred to therein are non-discriminatory and
give effect to section 2(j).
CLAUSE 31
1. On page 22, in line 35, after "any" to insert "technical". 1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs on the Lotteries
Amendment Bill [B 81B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6
November 2001:
The Select Committee on Economic Affairs, having considered the
subject of the Lotteries Amendment Bill [B 81B - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to
the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Criminal Procedure Second Amendment Bill [B 45B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Criminal Procedure Second Amendment Bill [B 45B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second Amendment Bill [B 78B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 74), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second Amendment Bill [B 78B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 74), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Private Security Industry Regulatory Bill [B 12B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Private Security Industry Regulatory Bill [B 12B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Medical Schemes Amendment Bill [B 80B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 6 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Medical Schemes Amendment Bill [B 80B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the “Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal” Act Repeal Bill [B 30B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 31 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the “Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal” Act Repeal Bill [B 30B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Africa Institute of South Africa Bill [B 47B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 31 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Africa Institute of South Africa Bill [B 47B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Academy of Science of South Africa Bill [B 67B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 31 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Academy of Science of South Africa Bill [B 67B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the National Parks Amendment Bill [B 38 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 7 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the subject of the National Parks Amendment Bill [B 38
- 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Egypt Police Cooperation Agreement, dated 29 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt in respect of Police Cooperation, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.
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Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Nigeria Police Cooperation Agreement, dated 29 October 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria in respect of Police Cooperation, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.