THURSDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

      GOOD WISHES TO PARLIAMENTARY OBSERVER MISSION TO ZIMBABWE

                           (Announcement)

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Before I get to the Order Paper, as the parliamentary observer mission will be departing for Zimbabwe tomorrow morning, I wish to take this opportunity on behalf of the presiding officers and the House, to wish the mission well. [Applause.]

We trust that they will conduct themselves in a manner that will assist them to carry out their functions. Should they require any additional assistance while they are in Zimbabwe, they should not hesitate to contact us. We will be here and, of course, the nation awaits their report with anticipation.

We should also take this opportunity to express the hope that the people of Zimbabwe will be able to carry out their elections in conditions which will be conductive to an outcome that will be generally accepted. We really hope everything will go well and that our members will come back not in pieces but in one piece as a delegation.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Minister Trevor Manuel yesterday delivered a Budget that performed the seemingly impossible feat of reducing taxes while increasing Government expenditure, which will promote growth and expansion;

(2) recognises that the additional R5,2 billion over the next three years to the Department of Safety and Security and the over R800 million to the Department of Justice, which will result in an extra 16 000 more policemen and -women, and a streamlined justice system which will dramatically reduce crime;

(3) acknowledges that the 24% of expenditure allocated to education as well as the Umsobomvu Fund will develop the skills base of our people and future leaders; and

(4) congratulates Minister Manuel and the department on their extraordinary performance.

[Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the decision by the Gauteng government to make nevirapine available at all public hospitals in the province;

(2) notes that, under the leadership of Tony Leon and the Democratic Alliance, the Western Cape has already implemented a full programme to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV;

(3) expresses its dismay and outrage at the reaction of the Minister of Health and the ANC to the Gauteng announcement; and

(4) calls on ANC-run provinces to show greater respect for life than for party discipline and make nevirapine available at all provincial health centres.

[Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes with disgust and contempt the news that the Western Cape director, Greg Duncan, responsible for the Arrive Alive Campaign drove at 205 km/h on the so-called ``death stretch’’ on the N1 highway near Beaufort West;

(2) further notes that people such as this official make a mockery of honest Government projects aimed at improving safety and the lives of the people;

(3) hopes that proper treatment of this case will prevail to prove to all and sundry that law is fair and just and that nobody is above it; and

(4) believes that setting an example through this official will send a strong message that organs of the state, the courts, among others, mean business.

[Applause.]

Ms O R KASIENYANE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the increases in social spending announced in the Budget  on  20
       February 2002;


   (b)  in particular the  increases  in  social  grants,  with  old-age
       pensions and disability grants being increased to R620  and  the
       child support grant to R130;


   (c)  that this increase, which is above the level  of  the  inflation
       rate,  must  make  a  significant  contribution  to  the  living
       conditions of the millions of recipients of social grants; and


   (d)  that the date of the increases has been  brought  forward  to  1
       April,  which  will  bring  immediate  relief  to  social  grant
       beneficiaries;

(2) encourages the Government to pursue the target of extending the child support grant to three million of the poorest children in our country by the end of 2003 with all earnesty; and

(3) expresses its full support for the broader development thrust of this year’s Budget in terms of further development of skills, infrastructure and economic opportunities.

[Applause.]

Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House notes that the New NP -

(1) welcomes the decision by the Zimbabwe government to reverse its unlawful ban on certain South African journalists;

(2) congratulates the South African observer mission, Sanef, and the Department of Foreign Affairs on the sterling role they played in assuring access to the electoral process for the media; and

(3) demands that President Mugabe removes all obstacles that could hinder a free and fair election because Africa in general, and Zimbabwe in particular, deserve it.

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that job creation through infrastructure development is a viable economic alternative, recognised by many economic experts;

(2) acknowledges that, in addition, infrastructure development and maintenance is a vital and undeniable prerequisite for economic growth and investment;

(3) recognises that social service delivery can only occur when proper and effective infrastructure is developed and maintained;

(4) further notes that infrastructure development and maintenance backlogs in South Africa have reached staggering levels in certain regions, and has consistently been neglected for the past decade and more; (5) regrets the meagre amount allocated to infrastructure spending by national Government, which translates into a mere 0,6% of GDP, as reflected in the newly tabled Budget; and

(6) calls on the national Government to recognise its responsibility to create jobs and infrastructure, especially where capacity is still lacking to do so at provincial and local government level.

Mr L M KGWELE: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that this year’s Budget is the second budget in which there are substantial increases in funding for education;

(2) recognises that this increase will enhance HIV/Aids life skills programmes in schools, student financial aid and quality education;

(3) acknowledges that the poverty alleviation thrust in this Budget will result in more children acquiring quality education;

(4) believes that the massive boost in infrastructure allocation will give meaning to the President’s commitment that no child will learn under a tree; and

(5) applauds this Budget, which will enable South Africa’s youth to take their place in a competitive and productive economy.

Mrs M A SEECO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with appreciation the Budget as presented by hon Minister T Manuel;

(2) applauds Minister Manuel for -

   (a)  highligting the desire to reduce the crime rate in  our  country
       which inhibits economic growth by causing prospective  investors
       to reassess their investments; and


   (b)  his endeavour to pay special  attention  to  critical  areas  of
       concern such as social grants; and

(3) although no mention was made in regard to unemployment and the creation of wealth, is of the opinion that Rome was not built in one day.

[Applause.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the  PAC  believes  in  the  right  of  all  peoples  to  govern
       themselves and therefore affirms the  right  of  the  people  of
       Zimbabwe to control their own destiny;
   (b)  the Zimbabwe elections should serve as a reminder that  Africans
       must not allow themselves to  be  trampled  upon  by  those  who
       intend to perpetuate their domination over the affairs  of  this
       world by keeping the land question  away  from  the  fundamental
       issues of today; and


   (c)  Africa,  dislocated,  dismantled,  and  divided  was  thrown  by
       colonisation into an international economic system in  which  it
       does not control anything;

(2) believes Zimbabwe is a sovereign state and has the right to assert itself, to secure its means of democracy, development and power;

(3) notes that it is clear the European Union will not allow strong leaders to appear in Africa who will explain to Africa the new nature of power and what to do with it and that the next cadre of leadership in Africa must prepare our African people to assume a position in world power;

 4) further notes that Africa's people are living in a world power where
    Europeans are coming together in the form ...

[Time expired.]

Ms E GANDHI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)   the  Greenbury  Primary  School  in  Phoenix,  Durban,  was   a
       vandalised,   dilapidated   school   serving   an   impoverished
       community;


   (b)  in the past three years, through the  selfless  efforts  of  the
       principal, educators, the governing body and parents, the school
       has been turned around;


   (c)  this school recently entered a competition advertised in a local
       newspaper and won; and   (2) congratulates the school on  winning  a  fully  operational  computer
   centre which they are now sharing with the community,  and  on  their
   initiative,  which  serves  as  an  inspiration  to  the  spirit   of
   Vukuzenzele.

[Applause.]

Mrs G M BORMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) is shocked at the chaotic state of the Johannesburg Metro’s billing system where -

   (a)  thousands of accounts are never received;


   (b)  payments are credited to wrong accounts; and


   (c)  the call centre set up to deal with problems does not function;

(2) believes that the growing arrears bill resulting from this chaos has serious consequences for the delivery of services in Johannesburg;

(3) expresses its disquiet at the ineptitude of the ANC mayor and his executive, who offer nothing but empty promises to ratepayers; and

(4) calls on the ANC to put delivery ahead of party interests and to replace incompetent politicians and officials with those willing and able to do the job.

[Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of Parliament:

That the House -

(1) congratulates Sappi shareholding company on perking up in the face of the global economic downturn and increasing investor confidence in the business;

(2) commends its Managing Director, Eugene van As, for his leadership skills which have sustained the company through turbulent business times in South Africa and abroad for a considerable length of time;

(3) appreciates the fact that despite the September 11 holocaust the group’s North American operations nevertheless showed signs of recovery and future prosperity; and

(4) calls on all captains of industries to stand united and reinforce investor confidence in the country, in order to increase profits and create jobs for the poor.

Mrs Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the former commander of the people’s army, uMkhonto weSizwe, and the former Minister of Defence, Comrade Joe Modise, passed away on 26 November 2001;

(2) believes that Comrade Joe Modise played an important role in the struggle for the liberation of the people of South Africa and has worked tirelessly in building a non-racial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa;

(3) commends the Modise family for providing the nation with this selfless and gallant fighter for freedom; and

(4) calls on the people to pick up the spear and continue with the struggle to accelerate change in our country.

[Applause.]

Mnr J SCHIPPERS: Mev die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis kennis neem -

(1) van president Thabo Mbeki se besluit dat verdere konsultasie tussen die Departement van Justisie en die SAPD noodsaaklik is voordat die gewysigde artikel 49 van die Strafproseswet geïmplementeer kan word; (2) van die kontroversie en ongelukkigheid onder lede van die SAPD en die Departement van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit oor die voorgestelde wysigings; en

(3) dat die Nuwe NP die voorstel vir verdere konsultasie tussen al die rolspelers verwelkom, want reeds met die aanvanklike bekendmaking van die voorgestelde wysigings was die Nuwe NP se standpunt dat die wetgewing die veiligheid van die polisie in die gedrang sal bring. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J SCHIPPERS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House notes -

(1) President Thabo Mbeki’s decision that further consultation between the Department of Justice and the SAPS is essential before the amended section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act can be implemented;

(2) the controversy and unhappiness among members of the SAPS and the Department of Safety and Security about the proposed amendments; and

(3) the New NP welcomes the proposal for further consultation between all the role-players, because at the time of the original announcement of the proposed amendments the New NP’s position was already that the legislation will jeopardise the safety of the police.]

Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) salutes the many South Africans who are dedicating their lives to dealing with the HIV/Aids pandemic;

(2) notes with dismay that HIV/Aids remains a subject of confusion and argument within the ANC, as illustrated again yesterday when the ANC distanced itself from Premier Shilowa’s decision to provide mother-to- child treatment; (3) laments the manner in which the ANC’s confusion, authored by its leader Thabo Mbeki, is translated into Government inaction in the face of thousands of preventable deaths;

(4) condemns this continued strategy of the ANC to undermine the efforts of people who are trying to prevent the deaths of thousands of South Africans; and

(5) calls on the ANC to stop their campaign of madness and make HIV/Aids the priority of all three spheres of government.

                       FESTIVAL OF EID-UL-ADHA

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that Saturday is the Muslim Festival of Eid-ul-Adha, the second most important celebration of Islam, which marks the last day of Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, as it commemorates the willingness of Ibrahim to sacrifice his son to God; and

(2) conveys to all Muslims the greetings of this House and wishes them “Eid Mubarak”.

Agreed to.

      CONDOLENCES TO VICTIMS OF TRAGIC TRAIN ACCIDENT IN EGYPT

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and sadness the tragic train accident in Egypt, resulting in more than 370 deaths;

(2) shares the sorrow of the Egyptian people; (3) offers its condolences to the bereaved; and

(4) wishes all those injured a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.

                  INTERNATIONAL MOTHER LANGUAGE DAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  today is International Mother Language Day; and


   (b)  that South Africa is a  multi-language  society,  and  that  the
       multilingual  nature  of  our  society  is  enshrined   in   the
       Constitution;

(2) recognises that the multilingual nature of our society is not reflected in the day-to-day reality of our people, where the mother languages of millions of our citizens are not in use for purposes of education, commerce and governance;

(3) urges all South Africans to promote the use of all our languages in commerce, industry, education and governance;

(4) calls on Government to implement training programmes and professional standards for interpreters and to provide extended access to government communications in all South Africa’s languages; and

(5) undertakes to provide more extensive and effective interpretation services within Parliament, to offer increased use of all our languages in public participation programmes and to transform Parliament into an institution that leads in the promotion of our country as one which respects and cherishes all our languages, putting none above the other.

Agreed to. PROMOTING MOTHER LANGUAGE AS AN INSTRUMENT FOR SOCIAL, CULTURAL AND EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND EMPOWERMENT

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mme N M TSHEOLE: Modulasetilo, maloko a a tlotlegang a Palamente ya etsho le baeng ba rona ba ba reeditseng go tswa kwa seraleng, ke a le dumedisa.

Gompieno re a keteka, re keteka ditlamorago tsa dipuisano mo lekgotlheng la Unesco, dipuisano tse di simolotseng mo ngwageng wa 1993 go buisanwa ka ga dipuo. E rile ka 1999, Unesco e ne lwa ntlha ya nna le letsatsi la go keteka puo ya ga mme, puo e ke belegweng ka yona, e ke e antseng mo letseleng la ga mme.

Ke tshwanelo gore re rotloetse Unesco gore e be e akantse gore e ka dira letsatsi la gompieno go nna le mo go lona go ketekiwang puo ya kwa gae, e re e anyang mo letseleng. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Ms N M TSHEOLE: Madam Speaker, hon members of Parliament, and our visitors who are listening from the gallery, I greet you. Today we are celebrating, we are celebrating the results of the Unesco negotiations which started in 1993 about languages. In 1999, Unesco for the first time started celebrating the mother tongue, that is the language that I was born with, that I acquired from my mother.

It is proper to encourage Unesco as it has thought of making today a day of celebrating our mother tongue, the one we have acquired.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Yes, hon Ellis?

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, on a point of order - not that this is against what the hon member is saying, because I do not know what she is saying: Yet again, there is a very poor interpretation service, so poor that there is, in fact, nothing at all. I am sure that we would all like to hear what the hon member is saying in this very important debate. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Thank you, hon member, for raising that important point. Can the management please follow up the issue of interpretation. [Interjections.]

Ms N M TSHEOLE: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Maybe, in a way, I can say that I am protesting. I have decided to speak in my language to protest. [Interjections.] I am going to speak in my language as a form of protest, because I know that the interpretation system is not in a good condition. [Applause.] I have often listened to the interpretation, and it has not been good. Even when I know the language that the speaker is using, I have insisted on listening to the interpretation, and the quality is not good.

Today’s occasion is the end product of discussions which have been taking place in the UN. Since 1993 Unesco has been engaged in discussions about the significance of a mother language. These discussions culminated in the first celebration of mother language in November 1999. We definitely have to applaud Unesco for observing 21 February as the International Mother Language Day.

One might wonder why it took the UN such a long time, firstly, to acknowledge and recognise the significance of mother language to personal development, cultural diversity and peace-building; secondly, that at least half of the world’s 6 000 to 7 000 languages are facing the risk of extinction. While we do not want to minimise the significance of organisations that mobilise and lobby for the protection of endangered animal species, it is surprising that it had to take the UN such a long time to recognise the significance of human communication, the only means through which human beings can communicate their thoughts.

It is not surprising, though, that the UN had to awaken to the significance of mother language, because it is not an exaggeration to say that most of the world’s conflicts have their source in the greed of the powerful nations of the world in not recognising the cultural identity of other languages.

When I prepared my speech it was with a Setswana mindset, but now I have to say this in English. [Interjections.] A nation that is denied its language is a nation being destroyed or killed. Iyanla Vanzant, in her book Yesterday, I cried, says:

In preparing this book I learnt that of all the experiences in my life, the one that had the most devastating effect was not being celebrated or being made to feel welcome. It was worse than any beating or cruelty I experienced.

These are the words from a woman who, as a child, was so abused that she grew up into becoming a delinquent who, at the age of 21, had already given birth to four children, each with a different father. She is now an author and a motivational speaker.

South Africa also shares her experience of not being celebrated or welcomed. I am quoting these words to show the impact that neglect and rejection can have on a people. It can have far-reaching levels of devastation on a people. South Africans, especially the speakers of the other nine official languages, seem to be in a state similar to the one I described above. Although the Constitution recognises all nine indigenous languages of South Africa, including sign language …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The interpreters are now available, if you want to switch over to Setswana.

Ms N M TSHEOLE: Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ga ke itse gore a nako ya me e tla okediwa. Ke etile ke kgopiwa mo tseleng, ke kgopiwa ka ntlha ya gore ga re tlotle dipuo tsa rona. Ke bua gompieno janna ka gonne jaaka Palamente, re tshwanetse ra bo re tlhokomela dipuo tsa rona. Ha esale re opela pina ya tshwene go tloga ka ngwaga wa 1994. Ga re a tshwanela go bua dipuo tsa rona re sa itsisa bafetoledi diura di le 24 pele re bua.

Jaanong gompieno jaana, fa re tshwanetse go keteka dipuo tsa rona, go a pala. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[I do not know whether my time will be added to. I was interrupted all the way, because we do not respect our languages. I am saying this today because as Parliament we should be taking care of our languages. We have been singing this song since 1994. We are not supposed to speak our mother languages if we have not given the interpreters 24 hours’ notice before we speak them.

Now today, when we are supposed to celebrate our mother tongue, this is not possible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I am sorry, hon member, for disturbing you. We have tried to listen to the interpretation, but it is not there. [Interjections.]

Mr T M GONIWE: Comrade Chair, can it then be assumed that the time allocated to the speaker will not be affected by these stoppages?

Ms N M TSHEOLE: Hon members, let us not be disturbed by what is happening. The woman that I have just quoted, Iyanla Vanzant, says that life is a school and we learn from every experience that we go through. I hope today’s experience will be a lesson for all of us. I hope we are not going to come out of today’s experience not having learnt anything with regard to respecting mother languages in this Parliament. [Applause.]

The decision which has been taken by Unesco, as I said earlier, is relevant to South Africa. South Africa is one country that is different from other countries. We recognise 11 official languages, including a 12th one, sign language. The Constitution adopted a policy emanating from the ANC’s RDP document, which propagates multilingualism. The experiences that I referred to earlier on, ie neglect and not being welcomed, can have a devastating impact.

This Government has decided to make amends for what we experienced in the past, and the Constitution has started that process. As a follow-up to the Constitution, the Government, through the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, made big strides in implementing multilingualism. The first of such strides was the enactment of the Pan-South African Language Board Act in 1995. The Pan-South African Language Board is the first of its kind. It was a very difficult process. There is no other country in the world which has an institution like PanSALB. South Africa is a starter, and we need to celebrate this achievement on our part. We need to give ourselves a pat on the back and celebrate ourselves. [Applause.]

One other thing that we need to indicate with regard to South Africa is that, although we know that an institution like the EU Parliament has 11 official languages and the UN also recognises many official languages, South Africa is the only country which, at national level, recognises 11 official languages as a nation and as a country. The institutions that I have referred to - the UN and the EU - are multinational institutions. They have broad resources together, that is why implementation there has been easier compared to South Africa.

Hon members may think that by protesting here in Parliament I do not appreciate what has been done. I do appreciate the achievements of this country. I do appreciate that we have made a leap which no nation of the world has ever attempted. We know that there are countries like India where indigenous languages are recognised, but these are regional languages which are not used in their parliament as we do it here in South Africa.

This is not an easy task, but the issue is that we have to make a start. We know that it is going to be a long walk, but we have to make a start. We have to begin. I was glad that last week the Deputy Speaker referred to the achievements that have been made by Government with regard to the implementation of multilingualism in our country.

I want to applaud the efforts made by the Chief Executive Officer of the Pan-South African Language Board, Prof Marivate, who is up there in the gallery. She has done a lot to start where there was no foundation at all. She started everything from scratch, but we know that every province now has a provincial language committee. The languages are being taken care of, but when one starts where there is no foundation, where one cannot draw from previous experiences, it is not easy. So we need to claim our achievements, in spite of the difficulties that are still there.

The message that remains open to us is the one we got from the President’s state of the nation address, ie volunteerism. How far are we prepared as South Africans to use that message in promoting our mother languages? Are we making efforts to accommodate people who cannot speak languages that are not familiar to ours? Are we making efforts to expose our children to other children who cannot speak their language? The Minister of Finance yesterday also sent a message of solidarity. Are we in solidarity with other languages that are not ours?

I often listen to the Mail & Guardian advertisement over the radio. It sounds very proud when it refers to hundreds of millions of people in the world who speak English - including me. It sounds very proud when it refers to the millions who speak English in South Africa, and that if people want information they can go to the Mail & Guardian. Does the Mail & Guardian ever think of the millions of South Africans who cannot read English? What happens to their right to information? What happens to their right to education? Does the Mail & Guardian ever think of doing something in solidarity, for instance to help the deaf by developing sign language, so that they can also have access to education? This is the solidarity that our Minister was talking about yesterday. This is the volunteerism that our President was talking about when he delivered his state of the nation address.

It is a pity that I am now speaking off the cuff, but I hope the message has landed. Let us make an effort to be in solidarity with those who cannot speak English. I hope our Parliament will also act in solidarity with people like me, who wanted to speak Setswana. [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: I rise on a point of order, Mr Chairperson. We have a speaker’s list before us which shows that many speakers in this debate this afternoon are going to be using languages other than English. If there are no translation facilities, what we are doing is disempowering those members and it should be a matter for embarrassment and shame, that when we are discussing the promotion of mother tongues we are in fact disempowering our own members. Would it assist if we were to adjourn for a little while and let the translation service commence? [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I have been told that the translators are there. There is a technical problem right now. The sound cannot go down from up here to the system. They are attending to the technical problem. If the House wants us to adjourn for a few minutes, I would not have a problem with that. Then they can deal with the technical problem, and then we can come back. Before I do that, can the Whips just discuss amongst themselves and guide the Chair as to whether we should adjourn or whether we should proceed. Can the Whips just discuss that now?

I see the next speaker is going to speak in English. Can I afford him the opportunity to do so whilst the Whips are re-sorting the programme?

Mr R S NTULI: Chairperson, it is so unfortunate that once again the Ministers to whom this topic has more relevance are not here. Even the only Deputy Minister who is here is not going to afford us the benefit of his wisdom, because he is not on the speaker’s list. Be that it may, I shall proceed.

The decision to observe 21 February, which is today, as International Mother Language Day was unanimously taken at the 30th General Conference of Unesco held on 17 November 1999, as has been indicated. With half of the world’s 6 000 languages facing the risk of dying out, Unesco is again with us here, observing International Mother Language Day as part of the drive to protect the intangible, yet very significant, heritage of humanity and preserve cultural diversity.

We should not just look at this thing as a problem outside our frontiers. Even in this country, as we may be aware, two languages are already on the threshold of becoming extinct, namely the San and Khoi languages. This is very unfortunate. We recognise the importance of the mother tongue in the development of commmunication skills, concept formation and creativity, and the fact that mother languages are the primary vehicles of cultural identity.

In the context of educational practice or, more specifically language in education, mother tongue instruction assumes a very significant role. There is a false but pervasive belief that children should get into English, the latter being more of a global and commercial language, as soon as possible or they will be retarded in learning. More and more primary schools are introducing English, in many cases, as a second language to learners, and as the language of learning from ever earlier stages. This is done in the belief that it will improve the learner’s fluency in English and promote good overall academic achievement.

Unfortunately, this may be far from the truth, and it is, indeed. It is possible that by using a second language from too early on we are stunting the development of our learners’ mother tongue, impeding the development of their cognitive abilities but, more tragically, developing negative attitudes towards the first language, the mother language, as shown by some former Model C black children, and resulting in low achievement in conceptual subjects such as mathematics, accounting and science.

While we in South Africa have introduced a second language system of education for the majority of our learners, often from the early primary levels, we should note that there is no single model of second language education. The three important distinctions between different models of second language education programmes concern the goals of the programmes, the transitional versus the maintenance nature of the programmes, the degree of the immersion, and the time at which immersion begins.

A transitional programme has the goal of ultimately assimilating learners both linguistically and socially into the dominant language and culture. On the other hand, the maintenance programme has the goal of reinforcing the home language and sense of cultural identity of the learner as well as developing proficiency in the second language, thus promoting full bilingualism. We believe that a maintenance bilingual education system, achieved through a delayed partial immersion model, is the best for a plural society such as ours, which encourages multilingualism as a unifying factor. It is widely accepted by many researchers of bilingual education that a unitary cognitive academic proficiency underlies all language performance. This cognitive academic proficiency is developed primarily through mother language in the early years and may then be transferred to and expressed in a second language later on. This implies that if a learner’s mother language comprehension remains underdeveloped, then so does the learner’s cognitive ability. Thus, when the learner attempts to pursue studies through the medium of a second language, that learner will bring a lower cognitive academic proficiency to the task and be disadvantaged.

The popular notion that the earlier, the better with regard to second language education may possibly be based on the appearance of a second language proficiency created by face-to-face interaction and, yet, this is erroneous because we are confusing communicative proficiency with cognitive proficiency.

In the light of the foregoing, what then are the options that face us? The DA advocates that schools, particularly the primary schools, need to identify the grades at which the different languages will operate. We believe that a delayed partial immersion model is best for South African schools. This implies that the use of mother language as the language of learning should continue, as a minimum, until the learners are around 10 years of age, which is up to Grade 4. The use of English or Afrikaans as the language of learning should start, at the earliest, at Grade 5 and be pursued further.

Finally, the DA advocates that schools should recognise the difference between different types of subjects. Some fields of learning, in particular mathematics and science literacy, are conceptually abstract and may well be delayed as introduced through the medium of the second language.[Applause.]

USIHLALO WAMAKOMITI: Mhlonishwa Mnumzane Douglas Gibson ngicela ulalele. Sebengitshelile-ke labo abalungisa imishini ukuthi imishini yethu isilungile. Ngakho-ke lezo zikhulumi ezilandelayo angeke zikhinyabezeke. Inkulumo yazo izozwakala kahle ngezinye izilimi. Sesiyaqhubeka-ke. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: The hon Douglas Gibson is listening. Those who fix machines have told me that our machines are okay now. Therefore, the speakers to come will not be disturbed. Their speeches will be heard well in other languages. Now we are proceeding. [Applause.]]

I now call on the hon R S Ntuli. [Interjections.] I am sorry, I meant S B Ntuli, not R S Ntuli. There are two Ntulis following on one another.

Mnu S B NTULI: Sihlalo, iNdlu ehloniphekile kanye noSosiswebhu, ngiyabonga ukuthola leli thuba engilinikeziwe lokuthi ngizokhuluma ngosuku lwezilimi zabantu esilubiza ngokuthi i-Mother Language.

Silugubha okokuqala namuhla lapha eNingizimu Afrika. Okokuqala lokhu esikwenzayo namhlanje. Nathi kufanele ukuthi uma sikhuluma ezinhlanganweni lezo esisuke sikuzo njengalapha eNdlini ehloniphekile, sikwazi ukukhuluma ngolimi lwethu. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr S B NTULI: Madam Speaker, honourable House and the Whip, I am glad to have this opportunity to speak on this, the day of mother tongues, which we call Mother Language Day.

It is the first time that we are celebrating it here in South Africa. We are doing this for the first time. We, too, should be able to speak our own languages when we speak in large meetings, like when we speak in this honourable house.]

Colonialism brought with it various mechanisms to keep conquered communities suppressed. One of the tools used was language. Language is one aspect of power, for people cannot share power if they do not have access to their own mother languages. Historically, it was for this reason that in 1955, under the ANC as a liberation movement, people gathered in Kliptown to draw up the Freedom Charter. They drew up among others clause 8, which states that the doors of learning and culture shall be opened. This clause was drawn up because the Congress of the People acknowledged the fact that for the total emancipation of the people to take place, the culture of the people had to be restored.

Namuhla sithola ukuthi amagama ayaguqulwa bese kuthi lapho eguqulwa, abanye bethu bakhale ngokuthi lokhu kungukudlala ngemali. Akufanele lokhu sikubone njengendlela yokuchitha imali ngokungafanele, ngoba uma sesikhuluma ngokulungiswa kwezinto sikhuluma ngokuthi kubuyiselwe isithunzi sabantu. Ukuze isithunzi sabo sibuyele, kufanele-ke ukuthi bazibize ngamagama anencazelo empilweni yabo, kungaveli nje kuthiwe unguJani kanti bekufanele kuthiwe unguSomangamani. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[We find that names have been changed and when they were changed some of us complained that it was just the waste of money. We should not see this as an unnecessary way of spending money, because when we talk about the rectification of things, we talk about the re-installation of people’s status. For their status to be re-installed they should call themselves by the words that have meaning in their lives, for example, one must not just call someone Jan, while his real name is Somangamani.]

Hence, today, as we pay tribute to the International Mother Language Day, we South Africans should celebrate this day by ensuring that we learn and develop our mother languages. We should also learn other peoples languages; we should learn, respect and appreciate other peoples languages in the spirit of our motto ``Unity in Diversity’’.

Our Constitution contains a Bill of Rights which is mainly premised on the notion of individual rights. The language clauses should be understood from the orientation of language as a right. Therefore, the purpose of the Bill of Rights is to ensure that the South African society becomes one that is based on the firm democratic principle of equality, irrespective of the development of these other languages.

Hence, the structures established in terms of the Constitution are meant to assist in the democratisation of our society. PanSALB is one of these structures and thus its work will further these democratic principles. Among others, the national and provincial governments may use any particular official language for the purposes of governance, taking into account usage, practicality, expense, regional circumstances and the balance of the needs and preferences of the population as a whole or in the province concerned. But for the national Government and each provincial government it is a matter of must that it should use at least two official languages. Municipalities must take into account the language usage and preferences of their residents.

Kungakho-ke nePitoli ekade yaziwa ngokuthi yi-Pretoria manje sesiyibiza ngokuthi i-Tswane, ne-East Rand sesithi i-Ekurhuleni kanti i-Northern Province isizokwaziwa ngeLimpopo.

Lokhu akusho ukuthi uhulumeni wasekhaya awunasidingo sokusebenzisa imali ukwenza ezinye izinto. Izidingo zabantu bakithi ziseziningi kakhulu, kodwa inkinga esinayo ngukuthi uma singawaguquli la magama, awabi nancazelo futhi awenzi kuxhumana phakathi kwabantu abaningi abahlala endaweni kanye nendawo leyo abazibiza ngayo; yize sesithi sikhululekile.

Uma sinikeza la magama aseguquliwe akufanele, ngiyagcizelela futhi, akufanele sithi cha lena ngenye yezindlela zokuchitha izimali, yini kungenziwanga lokhu nalokhu. Kufanele sibe nokubekezelelana siqonde ukuthi kusukela ku-1994 sakha kabusha, ngakho sizokwakha nangakho ukunikeza amagama amasha ezindaweni zethu. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[That is why Pretoria, which was known as Pretoria, is now called Tswane. The East Rand is now known as Ekurhuleni and the Northern Province is now called Limpopo.

This does not mean that local governments do not have other needs on which they can spend their money. The needs of our people are too many, but the problem is that if we do not change these words, they do not have meaning and they do not create communication among many people who reside in those places, even though we say we are free.

When we give new names we should not, and I emphasise, we should not, say this is a waste of money, or ask why this and that was not done. We need to tolerate each other and understand that since 1994 we have been reconstructing, therefore we will now reconstruct by renaming our places.]

The Department of Education has drawn up a language-in-education policy implementation plan. Through the plan the department addresses itself to some nodal points, which are as follows: Firstly, the national foundation phase literacy programme which is aimed at improving all learners’ home language competence in the foundation phase. In this regard the plan will make a distinction between schools serving monolingual and multilingual learner populations.

Secondly there is a national general and further development plan programme which is aimed at improving learners’ second language competence in the post-foundation phase. The focus of this programme would be learning and teaching in mathematics, science and technology. Thirdly, there is a national language development programme, which will also focus on the post- foundation phase, that is from Grade 4 up to Grade 12, to make sure that the very fundamental subjects like maths, science and technology are also translated into the said mother languages. In order to realise the above initiatives, parents need to support school governing bodies.

Okuyiyona ndlela yokuxhasa ama-school governing body ngukuzihlupha kwabazali, kuthi uma kubizwa imihlangano baye khona. Uma befika kuyo leyo mihlangano, kufanele bakwazi ukuthi imibono yabo ingene emithethweni ephethe inqubo yesikole ukuze abazali balabo bantwana abasezikoleni lapho izilimi zabo zingabhekelelwe khona, bafike bazikhulumele. Kufuneka-ke bese bebambisana ne-governing body bathathe izinqumo ngokuthi inqubo yalesi sikole izosebenza kanjani. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[The way of supporting school governing bodies takes place by means of the parent’s dedication in attending meetings when they are called to do so. When they come to those meetings, they should be able to endorse their opinions to suit the rules contained in the school policies so that the parents of those children who are at schools where their languages are neglected will be able to express themselves regarding those languages. They should co-operate with school governing bodies and take decisions as to how the policy of their school is going to work.]

In so doing parents will also be heeding the President’s call for a spirit of volunteerism.

Ngiqinisekile ukuthi asidingi ukuthi sikhokhelwe ukwenza lokho, singasukuma sizenzele ngokwethu. Okubalulekile ngukuthi kusukela kulesi sikhathi uqalwa lo nyaka, kufanele sizimisele. Uma senza lokho, siyobe siletha inguquko empilweni yethu. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[I am sure we do not have to be paid for that, we can stand up and do it ourselves. The important thing is that we should dedicate ourselves from the beginning of the year. If we do that, we would be bringing about change in our lives.]

The school governing bodies of the former Model C schools need to be, receptive to transformation with regard to the change in schools language policy, in order to accommodate the black or African learners in their schools. People are now settling in the formerly whites only areas. As a result their needs, which include education, should be accommodated and their mother languages should be recognised. Learners should not be grouped based on their mother languages, but rather on the subject content.

Akufanele kuthiwe laba ngoba bakhuluma isiBhunu ngeke bafunde isiNgisi, ngakho masithathe laba sibase kuleli klasi ngoba bangamaNdebele bonke, khona bezofunda isiNdebele. Uma senza kanjalo kusho ukuthi asiwuthuthukisi umphakathi ngoba lona uzokhula engakwazi ukusebenzisana nalaba abanye.

Into esiyikhalelayo ngukuthi ukuqenjulwa kwamaklasi kungayi ngolimi, kepha kuye ngezifundo ezifana ne-Maths, isayensi nezinye. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[We should not say that because these people speak Afrikaans they will not learn English. We argue that therefore we should take these children and put them in that class just because they are all Ndebele, so that they will learn Ndebele. If we do that, it means we are not improving society, because that child will not learn how to work together with other people.

What we are complaining about is that classes should not be divided according to language, but according to subjects such as maths, science and others.]

I am saying that in so doing, we as parents would be living up to our motto

• which I referred to earlier, ie unity in diversity - with the aim of building the envisaged rainbow nation.

Ngithanda ukugcina ngokuthi ngithi ukubalula lokhu. Esikhathini esiningi thina bantu sivame ukuthi uma sikhuluma izilimi uthole ukuthi asivumelananga ngenqubo yokuthi sizosebenzisa luphi ulimi, ngakho ngicela ukuthi sikwenze lokho. Nalapha ekhaya namuhla sizamile ukuthi sishintshe izinkulumo zethu. Ngiqinisekile ukuthi amalungu ahloniphekile ayabona ukuthi lokhu kuyakhinyabeza kakhulu, ngoba umuntu uqale abhale lokhu, abuye akucishe aphinde abhale okunye. Leyo ngenye yezinto ezingasiphathi kahle. Kodwa, kukho konke lokho, ngicela ukusho ukuthi ngiyathokoza, ngiyabonga, dankie, ke a leboga [thanks]. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[I would like to conclude by mentioning that sometimes when we speak languages one finds that we have not agreed on the policy of how that language will be used, therefore, I would like us to do that. Even here at home we tried to change our speeches. I am sure that hon members see that this is very disturbing, because one has to write it first and then one writes it over and one keeps doing just that, writing and rewriting. That is one of the things that we are not happy about. In spite of all that, I would like to say that I am happy, I am saying thank you,, dankie, ke a leboga. [Applause.]]

Mr M F CASSIM: Chairperson and colleagues, we know with certainty - and regard it as self-evident - the necessity to promote mother language for both development and empowerment. Moreover, the Constitution entrenches that. We know and believe this, and we are all agreed on it. And yet, ironically, here in Parliament today, we are still debating this issue.

In essence, there is a problem. Where does that problem lie? It lies uniquely with English, moving like a bulldozer amongst our group of language huts, knocking them down to the left and right, back and front. This is because English has become the language of science, commerce, the major cinema industry and of IT. It is, in a sense, unassailable.

In Germany they recently started taking BBC broadcasts directly in English. The BBC broadcasts with translations into German, but these are now being regarded as superfluous.

Now, to bang one’s head against the widening use of English is to inflict self-injury. It would be more useful to examine how one’s own mother tongue can be supported, in spite of this tremendous onslaught of English. Therefore, we need to turn our attention not to the enemy outside, but to the enemy within. This is the insidious and destructive enemy that damages the mother tongue. That enemy is the lack of vocabulary.

To give hon members an idea, the English stock of words, with which, for example, the Oxford Dictionary works, at the moment exceeds half a million. This stock continues to grow at an accelerated pace year in and year out. A person who has a good command of the English language should be familiar with at least 20% of the word stock. This equates to about 100 000 words.

Now let us draw two circles, a big one and a small one within. The small circle represents the area within which the mother tongue is employed. In that small circle, to be able to talk to one’s mother, parents or friends, one needs perhaps no more than 1 000 or 2 000 words. But in the bigger circle, in which science and commerce prevail, we need to be able to set our targets at 100 000 words.

Therefore, in societies which are lagging behind educationally and economically, the vocabulary is very restricted. My guess - and this is no more than a guess - is that in such communities the vocabulary ranges from 2 000 to 3 000 words and seldom exceeds 5 000 words.

Now if mother tongue is going to be confined to just limited social use and maybe very limited educational use, no matter how much we speak about it here, no matter how much we bang our heads against the wall, mother tongue is not going to grow, because it is going to have limited use in that wider circle.

The problem of vocabulary acquisition is an acute problem, and one that all of us, as members of Parliament, need to face up to. This is a problem of our schooling generally: in our schools we attempt to teach grammar and comprehension, but we do not teach the most fundamental of things, namely vocabulary.

Likewise, the promotion of literature, drama, cinema, etc, must also be given support, in order that that circle in which mother tongue is used can be broadened. Further developments in mother tongue will be directly dependent on the following five factors.

Firstly, whether young people in society are socially and culturally attracted to the mother tongue. Secondly, whether terms and vocabulary are available for complex technological and scientific projects - and this is where the dictionary projects come into question.

Thirdly, whether suitable literature is available in volumes and at a good price to readers who would want to use their mother language. Fourthly, whether the media, particularly the visual media, can develop support and a following. Fifthly, whether schools will have the expertise to focus on vocabulary as an important ingredient in education.

If we look at money, we find that the total amount of rands that we have in our back pockets or in our bank balance gives us freedom. The more rands we have, the freer we are to make choices and to spend our money the way we want to. It is exactly the same situation with language: those who have the vastest vocabulary have the greatest freedom to read whatever they want to read, study whatever they want to study and are able to articulate the most complex ideas clearly and lucidly, because they can call on that vocabulary at any moment, anywhere and at any time.

Consider the following: if my children, your children and the children of this nation were to come back from school today and we were to ask them about the extent of vocabulary expansion undertaken or if we were to look through their books, would we find that minimal effort was made in that regard? It does not matter whether this is Afrikaans, isiZulu or any of the other languages. I want to state here quite clearly that as long as we do not concentrate on vocabulary expansion, there will be no development of mother language competence in our country. We may strive to spend a lot of money on the whole educational endeavour, but if the foundation is not built - and that foundation is one of vocabulary - comprehension becomes impossible, writing becomes limited, expressing oneself becomes severely constrained.

So if we really want to be able to promote mother tongue and language generally, it is imperative and behoves us to ensure that vocabulary and vocabulary expansion is given the utmost attention.

It is a very complex area and a moving target. Because of the fact that it is a moving target, we are not inclined to give attention to it in education. But that is a weakness. Until and unless we correct this weakness, our educational endeavour will miscarry and these great dreams we have of mother tongue education and its greater use, will remain a hopeless dream, something that we will be talking about for 5, 10 or 15 years. The problem is that the enemy is vocabulary. This is what we need to attack and conquer.

Mev A VAN WYK: Agb Voorsitter, moedertaal as medium van onderrig is die sleutel tot die ontwikkeling van Suid-Afrika en die ontwikkeling van die ganse Afrika. Die bepalinge van die Vereenigde Nasies se Declaration of the Rights of Persons Belonging to National, Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities, waarna die agb Mev Tsheole verwys het, is eintelik gesonde verstand, want dit beteken in wese dat mense aanvaarding geniet en hul menseregte gerespekteer word. Op dié wyse verwyder ‘n regering die gevoel van bedreiging, verwerping en minagting wat minderhede en nasies kan ervaar.

Die vervulling van hierdie basiese menslike behoefte verwyder die konflikpotensiaal wat daar in diverse samelewings kan voorkom. Die miskenning en ondermyning van die status of ontwikkeling van tale in ‘n veelvolkige land is ook dikwels bloot op vrees gegrond. Die taak is te ingewikkeld, redeneer die Regering; dit gaan te duur wees, redeneer die regering. Dit gaan te moeilik wees om alle groepe wat so bemagtig is bymekaar te hou. Maar in Suid-Afrika - en ek wil eerlik wees, ons leef in ‘n tyd van openheid - is daar ook ‘n ander dinamiek wat geld, en dit gaan om die moedertaal van een van die groepe in ons samelewing, die Afrikaanssprekende. Die President en die regerende party gaan uit hul pad om Afrikaanssprekendes gerus te stel, om hulle te betrek, om hulle te laat voel hulle word aanvaar as Afrikaners, om hulle aan te moedig om hul kragte en talente aan te wend ter ontwikkeling van ons vaderland.

Die Nuwe NP is die erfgenaam van die partye wat hul oorsprong het in die bevrydingstryd van die Afrikaner, in die stryd om die erkenning van hul moedertaal en die reg op moedertaalonderrig. Die Nuwe NP is ook die erfgenaam van die party wat apartheid in die Wetboek vasgelê het.

Die ANC het die visie om met hierdie party ‘n ooreenkoms aan te gaan om saam te regeer. Die ANC is bevry en die Nuwe NP is bevry, want hierdie diepgaande simboliese optrede staan in die teken van versoening. Hiervoor kan ons almal hard werk. Hierdie versoeningsboodskap het egter nog nie oral uitgekom nie, en kan ook nie solank daar optrede teen Afrikaanse geestesgoedere en instellings is nie, veral teen opvoedkundige inrigtings.

Maar wat veral bevry moet word, is die swart moedertale. Ons wil hê mense moet byvoorbeeld die relatiwiteitsteorie in Die Groot Gedagte van Gideon Joubert, wat vroeër daar op die balkon gesit het, in Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, en al die Afrika-tale, kan lees. Afrikaans staan in die pad daarvan. Hoekom sê ek so? Die oorblywende reste van uitgediende vooroordele, van uitgediende mistastinge wil Afrikaans nie sy volwaardige plek toelaat nie, wil Afrikaans nie sy bevrydingsrol van die ander inheemse tale laat speel nie. Dis mos waar!

Die ANC hoef nie uit grootmoedigheid die bepalinge en optredes wat Afrikaans en Afrikaanse instellinge aftakel uit die weg te ruim nie. Hulle hoef ook nie Afrikaans bo ander tale te stel nie, maar hulle moet wel aanvaar dat Afrikaans ‘n sleutelrol kan speel in die ontwikkeling van die ander inheemse tale. Die Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal speel byvoorbeeld so ‘n rol.

Die geweldige werk wat Afrikaanse vakkundiges ingesit het in die verlede - ons het reeds ‘n baie goeie fondament - in die vorige terminologie- departemente, die Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns, die universiteite, en tans, onder meer in die Departement vir Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie, is daar vir almal om te sien - rakke en rakke vol vakwoordeboeke.

Ek herhaal, ons het ‘n uitstekende fondament vir die taalontwikkeling van swart tale. Taalontwikkeling en vaktaallyste, spesifiek in die swart tale, die afgelope ongeveer 30-40 jaar is grotendeels die prestasie van Afrikaanse terminoloë. Ter erkenning van hul werk vra ek die Regering vandag, en ek is baie jammer nie een van die betrokke Ministers is hier nie, om ook weer aan Afrikaans sy regmatige plek te gee in hierdie nuwe fase van bevryding wat Suid-Afrika nou betree, want dan kan die Regering ook werklik skiet gee oor die moedertaalonderrig in ander tale.

Ek wil ‘n boodskap stuur aan Mnr Asmal, en hom vra om die geld te vind om ten minste een groot terminologiesentrum by ‘n universiteit te vestig om stukrag te gee aan die ontwikkeling van Suid-Afrika se inheemse tale. Daar is reeds universiteite wat sulke departemente het, en wat bereid sou wees om só ‘n sentrum te vestig.

Die Nuwe NP wil moedertaalonderrig in al ons inheemse tale tot op die hoogste opvoedkundige vlak laat uitbrei. Die uitdagings van die opbloei van Afrika verg dit van ons. Vaktaalontwikkeling en moedertaalskoolhandboeke, tesame met beter onderwys en opleiding is van kritieke belang vir opheffing. Dit is waarin die Minister van Onderwys sy formidabele energie moet stort.

Die ANC se National Education Policy Inquiry-verslag van 1993 onderskryf hierdie argument. Dus, om al hierdie en ander tegniese en opvoedkundige redes ook, kan ons nie langer voortgaan om Engels ten koste van ander moedertale te bevorder nie. Bowendien, wat gaan ons doen wanneer Chinees die dominante sake- en tegnologiewêreldtaal word? Moedertale is onvervangbaar. Daarsonder sal ons nie ‘n renaissance beleef nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mrs A VAN WYK: Hon Chairperson, mother language as a medium of education is the key to the development of South Africa and to the development of Africa in its entirety. The provisions of the United Nations’ Declaration of the Rights of Persons Belonging to National, Ethnic, Religious and Linguistic Minorities, to which the hon Mrs Tsheole referred, are actually common sense, because it basically means that people enjoy acceptance and their human rights are respected. In this way a government removes the feelings of danger, rejection and disrespect which minorities and peoples can experience. The fulfilment of this basic human need removes the conflict potential which can occur in diverse societies. The disregarding and undermining of the status or development of languages in a multilingual country is also often based merely on fear. The task is too complicated, the government reasons; it is going to be too expensive, the government reasons. It is going to be too difficult to keep all groups empowered in this way together. But in South Africa - and I want to be honest, we live in a time of openness - there is also another dynamic which applies, and that relates to the mother language of one of the groups in our society, the Afrikaans speakers.

The President and the governing party are going out of their way to reassure Afrikaans speakers, to involve them, to make them feel that they are accepted as Afrikaners, to encourage them to utilise their abilities and talents for the development of our fatherland.

The New NP is the heir of the parties which had their origin in the liberation struggle of the Afrikaner, in the struggle for the recognition of their mother language and the right to mother language instruction. The New NP is also the heir of the party which wrote apartheid into the Statute Book.

The ANC has the vision to enter into an agreement with this party to govern together. The ANC is liberated and the New NP is liberated, because this profound symbolic behaviour is the epitome of reconciliation. We can all work hard for this. However, this message of reconciliation has not reached all areas, nor can it as long as there is action against Afrikaans mental assets and institutions, particularly against educational institutions.

But what must be liberated in particular are the black mother languages. For example, we want people to be able to read the theory of relativity in Die Groot Gedagte by Gideon Joubert, who was sitting in the balcony earlier, in Zulu, Xhosa and Sotho, and all the African languages. Afrikaans is standing in the way of this. Why do I say this? The remains of obsolete prejudices, of obsolete blunders do not want to allow Afrikaans its rightful place, do not want Afrikaans to play its liberation role for the other indigenous languages. Surely this is true!

The ANC does not have to remove the stipulations and behaviour which break down Afrikaans and Afrikaans institutions out of generosity. They also do not have to elevate Afrikaans above other languages, but they do have to accept that Afrikaans can play a key role in the development of the other indigenous languages. The Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal, for example, plays such a role.

The tremendous work which Afrikaans specialists put in in the past - we already have a very good foundation in the former terminology department, the Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns, the universities - and currently, inter alia, in the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, is there for all to see - shelves and shelves full of technical dictionaries.

I repeat, we have an excellent foundation for the language development of black languages. Language development and terminolgy lists, specifically in the black languages, over the past approximately 30 to 40 years are largely the achievement of Afrikaans terminologists. In recognition of their work I ask the Government today, and I am very sorry that not one of the relevant Ministers is here, also once again to give Afrikaans its rightful place in this new phase of liberation which South Africa is now entering, because then the Government can also truly have plenty of leeway for mother language education in other languages.

I want to send a message to Mr Asmal, and ask him to find the money at least to establish one large terminology centre at a university to give impetus to the development of South Africa’s indigenous languages. There are already universities which have such departments, and which would be prepared to establish such a centre.

The New NP would like mother language education in all our indigenous languages to be extended to the highest educational level. The challenges of the revival of Africa require this of us. Terminology development and mother language textbooks, together with improved education and training, are of critical importance for upliftment. This is where the Minister of Education should expend his formidable energy.

The ANC’s National Education Policy Inquiry report of 1993 supports this argument. Therefore, for all these and other technical and educational reasons too, we can no longer continue to promote English at the expense of other mother languages. Besides, what are we going to do when Chinese becomes the dominant global business and technology language? Mother languages are irreplaceable. Without them we will not experience a renaissance. [Applause.]]

Ms S D MOTUBATSE: Mohlomphegi Modulasetulo, maloko ao a hlomphegago a Palamente, tabakgolo ya lehono ke go reta botse le bothakga bja maleme a segagešo. Ga ke bolele ka leleme la mmagwe ngwana, eupša ke bolela ka leleme la segagešo ka gore go na le phapano fao. Rena ka sesotho, se sengwe le se sengwe seo motho a se dirago ga a itirele yena a nnoši, eupša o direla le lapa leo a tšwago go lona goba batho bao a phedišanago le bona. Ke ka baka leo ke bolelago ka leleme la segagešo, e sego ka leleme la mmagwe motho.

Ka kgonthe re na le lebaka la gore re rete, re thabele maleme akhwi. Re kwisiša gore tše ka moka re di dira ka gore re keteka, re bile re iphsina ka tokologo ye ya rena; re iphsina ka go ba badudi ba Afrika Borwa. Gape re kwišiša gore tše ka moka di phethagala ka baka la ditokelo tša botho.

Maloko a ANC ao a bego a le Durban mathomong a ngwaga wo ge go ketekwa segopotšo sa ngwaga wa bomasomesenyane go tloga mola mokgatlo wo o theiwago, a kwele. Ntle le bao ba bego ba le Durban, le rena ka moka bao re bego re le ka Ngwakong wo ka la 8 Feberewari re kwele. A ke re re a tseba gore ka sesotho pinyana e ka se ke ya re ping e se ya kwa ping ye kgolo? Ge pinyana e sa re ping, ka nako ye nngwe e be e se ya kwa e kgolo. Eupša ka moka re e kwele ping ye kgolo yeo e dulago mola. [Legofsi.]

Lenyaga ke rata gore re ke re lebeleleng dilo tšeo di diregago mo nageng ya rena. ANC, leanong la yona, e itše dikgoro tša thuto le tsebo di tlo bulwa ka botlalo. Mathomong a lenyaga re kwele ge ka la 8 Feberewari ping e kgolo e boeletša gape lekgetho la boraro e re mejako ye ya thuto le tsebo a e bulwe ka moka gore re be le tšwelopele.

Lehono re ka ipotšiša gore ke eng re thabela maleme ka mokgwa wo. Sa mathomo, ge motho a kwišiša leleme la yo mongwe o kgona le go kwišiša ka mokgwa wo motho yoo a phelago ka gona. Gape o kgona go kwišiša gore motho yoo o tšwa kae, o diila go go kae goba ke mohumi go go kae ka lapeng la gagwe. Ge re ka lebeledišiša maleme ka moka a Afrika Borwa re tlo lemoga gore go na le dilo tše dingwe tšeo e lego gore ga re kgone go ka di hlatholla ka tshwanelo. Go na le tše dingwe tšeo di natefago tšeo e lego gore le ge motho a ka leka go di hlathollela yo mongwe yo a sa dulego nageng yekhwi, a ka se ke a kwišiša. Go fa mohlala, Mme MmaNtuli malobanyana mo ge a be a bolela ka Mfazi omnyama, ga se ra kgona go kwišiša dilo tše dingwe ge di hlathollwa gobane ``a witch will always be a witch’’ kganthe moloi le ngaka ga se selo se tee.

Ge re e tla ka polelong ya Seburu go na le taba ye nngwe yeo ke sa e lebalego yeo e amago go dirwa ga kofi. Go na le ka mokgwa wo ba hlalosago dilo ka gona ge ba dira kofi. A ke re re a tseba gore ka sekgowa go na le seo se bitšwago gore ke filtered coffee?'' Ka Seburu seo se bitšwa gore kemoer-koffie.’’ Ge motho a leka go hlatholla seo ka la gore o kgopela ``moer-koffie en hulle gooi die water en moer die koffie met die water’’, di ka se ke tša kwagala ge di hlathollwa ka sekgowa. [Disego.] [Legofsi.] Eupša tšeo ka moka ke botse bja naga ye, ke bokgoni le bothakga bjo bo lego ka nageng ye.

Mehleng yeno re lla ka bana ba rena, re re ba kwana le dintwa le dikgaruru. Eupša re swanetše go amogela gore dilo tšeo ka moka di dirwa ke gore, sa mathomo ga ba tsebe polelo ya gabobona; sa bobedi ga ba tsebe gore ba tšwa kae ba ya kae gobane ba timeletšwe ke segagabobona.

Nna ge ke be ke sa le wo monanana - ke ra gore pele ga ge ke thoma sekolo. Ga ke tsebe gore bonanana bjo ke bolelago ka bjona re tla re ke eng ka sekgowa. Ge ke sa le wo monanana, makgolo ngwanamoramaga o be a nthuta polelo gore leleme la ka le tlwaele gore ke tle ke kgone go ya sekolong. O be a re ke swanetše go fela ke re: Dipudi-ka-mabane-ga-se-ra-ke-re-di- lediša. Ke be ke swanetše go boeletša ka go peteketša, go laetša gore leleme le la ka le tlo kgona go hlatholla polelo gore ka sekolong morutišigadi a tle a kgone go kwana le nna. Ge e le tate yena o be a fela a e nametša thaba, a re ke boeletše ka morago ga gagwe ke re: Kgaka-šile- kgakala-gare-gare-pele-ga-dikgomo-kganthe-monna-tena-morwa-morakala-o-a- rereša-ge-o-re-kgaka- šile-kgakala-gare-gare-pele-ga-dikgomo. [Legofsi.] Gomme tšeo ka moka ge nka re ke leka go di hlatholla re ka se kwane.

Dilo tše ka moka ke be ke di rutwa ke makgolo yo a bego a se a tsene sekolo. Ge ke fihla mphatong wa Foromo ya bobedi, ke moo ke ilego ka botšwa gore go na le seo se bitšwago difonotiki. Le ka mpotšiša gore mokgekolo ka gore o be a sa tsebe le go ngwala leina la gagwe, dilo tše o be a di tšea kae? Tšeo ka moka ke tsebo ye e robetšego mo go segagaborena; ke bokgoni bjo bo lego gona. [Legofsi.]

Lehono ge re ngangišana mo re ka lebelela dilo tse di fapanego - gore maleme a a rena a nyalana goba a amologana bjang. Sa mathomo ge ke botša motho gore makgolo ke ngwanamoramaga, ge a tseba Sepedi o tlo kwišiša gore ke ra gore e be e le yena ngwanenyana a nnoši ka gabo. Ke ka baka leo a bitšwago ngwanamoramaga gobane ba bangwe ka moka ke masogana. Se ke seš upo sa mokgwa wo polelo ye ya rena e nonnego ka gona.

Molaotheo wa rena lehono o re dumelela go šomiša maleme ka moka. Nako e a re šia. Ge re kwana, re boledišana gomme ke ithuta leleme la yo mongwe, re tlo ba le tšwelopele re le Maafrikaborwa. Lehono ga re tsebane, eupša ka moka re bana ba naga ye.

Ke itše ge ke lebelela ka bona gore molaotheo wa go aga Afrika ka leswa le wona o a dumela gore re boledišaneng ka maleme a rena gore re dira bjang mo kontinenteng gobane ga se ra kgona go ka tšwela pele ka ge re be re arogantšwe, go thwe bakhwi ba bolela Sefora, bakhwi ba bolela Sepotokisi gomme bakhwi bona ba bolela Seisimane. Eupša lehono re ka kwana gomme ra aga kontinente ye ya rena ka gore re na le dilo tše ntši tšeo di re gahlanyago.

Ke rata go tšwela pele ka la gore ngwageng wa go feta, re le komiti, re bile le nako ya go sekaseka go hlongwa ga bodo goba komiti ya dipolelo tša babaso. Komiti ye e tlile go re tšwela mohola ka kudu. Ka ge le šetše le kwele ka mokgwa wo Mna Ntuli le Mna Cassim ba hlalositšego mošomo wa komiti ye ka gona, maekemišetšo ke gore re be le dipukuntšu tša maleme a segagaborena gore ge re ya sekolong re tle re kgone go ruta bana ba rena Saense le Matematiki ka wona maleme a a gaborena. Maleme a a rena a šaleditšwe morago ka boomo. Bjale ke nako ya gore re a tsošološe, re tswele pele re le setšhaba. [Legofsi.]

Ge re be re lebeletše go kgethwa ga komiti, re ile ra šala re maketše. Ke sa na le dipotšišo tše ntši tšeo ke nyakago go di tšweletša mo kgorong. Ke ka baka la eng ge maleme a rena mo diyunibesithing tša rena a rutwa ke batho bao ba sa belegwago ke batho bao ba bolelago dipolelo t ša bona? Sa bobedi, mo thutong ya Research motho o nyakišiša Sepedi ka Sekgowa. Ga ke kwišiše gore ke ka baka la eng motho a dira research ka Sekgowa, etšwe a nyaka go tseba ka Sepedi. Ke tše dingwe t ša dilo tšeo re swanetšego go di lokiša re le Ngwako, re boneng gore di agwa ka tsela ye e swanetšego. Mošomo wa rena o nabile, eupša re na le tshepo ya gore re tlo kgona go tšwela pele ka ge re le Maafrikaborwa ao a nyakago go aga naga ye ya rena. Ge re swarišana re tlo ba le tšwelopele. Pinyana e š etše e itše ping. A re kwaneng. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi speech follows.)

[Ms S D MOTUBATSE: Mr Chairperson, hon members of Parliament, the main issue today is the celebration of the beauty and diversity of our mother languages. I am not going to speak in a foreign language, but I am going to speak my mother tongue, because saying that I am speaking a foreign language would be wrong. We Basotho believe that each and every thing that one does, one does not for his or her benefit alone, but for the benefit of his or her family or his or her community. That is why I am speaking my mother tongue, not in a foreign language.

We have ample reasons for celebrating these languages. Our understanding is that we are doing this as part of the celebration and enjoyment of our liberation. We are enjoying the fact that we are South African citizens. It is our understanding, also, that all these things are possible, because of our human rights.

Members of the ANC who were in Durban at the beginning of the year, attending the celebration of the ANC’s 90th birthday, had heard this. Besides those who were in Durban, all of us who were in this House on 8 February also heard it. We all know, as the Basotho say, that the little ping cannot go ping'' before it hears the sound of the great ping. When the little ping does not goping’’, sometimes it is because it has not heard the sound of the great ping. However, we all heard the great ping that sits over there. [Applause.]

This year, I would like us to take a closer look at the things that are going on in our country. The ANC, in its policy, says that the doors of learning and knowledge shall be fully opened. We heard, at the beginning of the year, on 8 February, when the great ping repeated for the third time, that all the doors of learning and knowledge must be opened for the sake of development.

Today, we may ask ourselves why we are celebrating these languages in this manner. Firstly, when one understands another person’s language, one is also able to understand how that person lives. One is also able to understand where that person comes from, how poor or rich that person is.

When we look closely at all the languages of South Africa, we note that there are certain expressions that we simply cannot translate fully into other languages. There are some amusing expressions that, when one tries to translate for a person who comes from another country, are difficult to understand. For example, when the hon Member Ms Ntuli spoke about mfaz'omnyama'' here the other day, we could not understand everything, because a witch always remains a witch’’ whereas a witch and a traditional healer are not one and the same.

When I look at the Afrikaans language I am reminded of an incident that I will never forget that has to do with the brewing of coffee. They explain the different methods of brewing coffee in a peculiar way. We all know in English something that is called filtered coffee''. In Afrikaans, it is calledmoerkoffie’’. If one tried to translate that by saying that he or she is asking for ``moerkoffie, en hulle gooi die koffie in en moer die water by die koffie’’, [filtered coffee, and they put in the coffee and add the water] the English translation will misses the pun. [Laughter.] [Applause.] However, all that is part of the beauty of this country, the skills and expertise that are found in this country.

These days we complain about our children, saying that they are prone to violence and disorder. We must admit, however, that all those things are caused by the fact that, in the first place, they do not know their mother tongues and, secondly, they do not know where they come from and they do not know where they are going, because they have lost their culture.

When I was still a little girl, that is, before I went to school - I do not know how I can translate this concept of a little girl that I am talking about into English - my grandmother, who was referred to as ``ngwanamoramaga’’, used to teach me how to speak so that my tongue could get used to the language in preparation for school later on. She used to make me practice the following limerick: Dipudi-ka-mabane-ga-se-ra-ke-re-di- ldisa. I had to repeat this limerick very fast so that my tongue could get used to the language so that when I eventually went to school, the teacher would be able to communicate with me. As for my father, he made the exercise even more difficult for me. He used to make me repeat after him, saying: Kgaka-sile-kgakala-gare-gare-pele-ga-dikgomo-kganthe-monna-tena- morwa-morakala-o-a-reresa-ge-o-re-kgaka-sile-kgakala-gare-gare-pele-ga- dikgomo. [Applause.] If I tried to translate all that we will not understand one another.

I was taught all this by my grandmother, who had had no formal education whatsoever. It was only when I was in Form II that I learned about phonetics. Can anyone tell me how my grandmother, who could not even write her own name, knew these things? This is knowledge that is inherent in our culture; it is an inborn skill. [Applause.]

Today, as we debate here, we may find out how our languages complement or reject one another. First of all, when I say that my grandmother was referred to as ngwanamoramaga'', a person who is proficient in Sepedi will know that she was an only girl. That is why she was called ngwanamoramaga’’. It is because all the other children were boys. This is an indication of the richness of our language.

Today our Constitution gives us the right to use all our official languages. Time is against us. If we were to agree, after consultation, that each person must learn somebody else’s language, we will progress as South Africans. Currently, we do not know one another, yet all of us are children of this country.

When I looked at the Constitutive Act of the African Union I noted that it also allows us to address each other in our mother languages when discussing what we must do on this continent to bring about progress, because for a long time we were segregated according to our mother languages, some speaking French, others Portuguese, English, etc. Today, however, we can come together and build our continent because we have a lot in common.

I would furthermore like to point out that last year we discussed in our committee the feasibility of establishing a committee or board for African languages. Such a committee will be of great benefit to us. Hon members have already heard from the explanation of the hon Member Mr Ntuli and that of the Deputy Chairperson of Committees, Mr Cassim, how this committee will work, that the intention is to compile dictionaries in our mother languages so that we may teach our children Science and Mathematics in our mother languages. Our languages were suppressed deliberately. Now is the time for us to empower them, and to progress as a nation. [Applause.]

When we were debating the appointment of this committee, we were left with a number of questions. I still have a number of questions that I would like to raise in this House. Why is it that at our universities our languages are taught by people who do not speak those languages? Secondly, when it comes to research, a person researches Sepedi in English. I cannot understand why research is conducted in English when the researcher wants to understand Sepedi. These are some of the things that we, as Members of this House, must rectify and we must see to it that they are developed properly. We have our work cut out, but I am confident that we will succeed because we are the South Africans who want to build this country of ours. If we co-operate, we will succeed. The little ping has gone ``ping’’. Let us come together. [Applause.]] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you, hon member. I hope the hon member will be making that special brand of coffee for the portfolio committee!

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil aansluit by mej Matubatse deur te sê dat hoewel ek baie hou van moerkoffie, ek ‘n afkeur het aan gemoerde koffie. [Mr Chairperson, I want to join Miss Matubatse by saying that although I really like ground coffee, I dislike the coffee dregs.]

I would also like to suggest that something be done about giving access to the interpretation service to the journalists upstairs as well. They suffer a tremendous disadvantage in that the diversity of this debate itself is lost to them altogether. Let us have some progress in that respect.

Humankind first emerged in Africa. In the research on the origin of humankind, all modern findings point in this direction. While locally we are proud to focus on Cape Town as the Mother City, the fact that our continent is actually Mother Africa is often ignored. Mother Africa’s offspring, as they left for other parts of the globe, took with them the knowledge of the cultures, the customs and the practices that were drawn from Mother Africa.

Prof Herbert Vilakazi, in his paper entitled The Problem of Education in South Africa, argues that the crisis of Africa has its roots in the African slave trade, and the mass enslavement of Africans in the Americas and the Caribbean. It was deepened and systematised by European colonisation, colonialism and the domination of Africa.

The esteemed professor contends further that the tragic experience of the return of the very descendants of Mother Africa, who, having forgotten their original relationship with her, enslaved their long-forgotten cousins and carried them in chains to distant lands, is etched in the psyche of humankind.

The observance of an International Mother Language Day is important to the rise of Mother Africa, and therefore the rise of humankind. The recognition by Unesco’s member states of linguistic and cultural diversity is an acceptance of the possibility of inspiring solidarity based on understanding, tolerance and dialogue. In the words of Unesco’s Director- General, Koichiro Matsuura: Languages are not only an essential part of mankind’s cultural heritage, but the irreducible expression of human creativity and of its great diversity.

An estimated 6 000 languages are spoken worldwide, around a tenth of these in Africa. While academics may argue a case for a systematic reduction of this number, the fact is that language is learnt in infancy and a child communicates best in its mother tongue.

Ek self het twee en ‘n half tale geleer op my moeder se skoot: Engels en Afrikaans, en dan basiese gebare. Dit is ‘n groot nadeel vir my dat ek nie meer tale geleer het nie. Dit is die houding wat ons moet aanleer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I learned two and a half languages myself at my mother’s knee: English and Afrikaans, and then basic gestures. It is very much to my own detriment that I did not learn any more languages. That is the attitude that we have to adopt.]

Modern research points out that learners are actually suffering permanent disadvantage if the mother tongue is withheld in their education, and that in so doing misconceptions and miscommunications arise.

The greatest problem arising from this fact is that languages themselves do not reach the same level of growth and maturity at the same time. In African countries, more so in South Africa, the level of growth and development of multilingualism was predetermined and preprogrammed to keep people apart and to keep them enslaved, rather than to open the doors to their cultures.

The quest today is to promote communication, understanding and solidarity by encouraging the growth of all languages and to foster multilingualism without losing track of developments in communication in the international environment. [Time expired.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Mr Chairperson, according to reports many South African children are being disadvantaged by being made to learn English too soon. International research levels said that mother tongue proficiency is essential to mastering a second language and to academic success generally. At issue, however, seems to be not so much those who are starting school, but those already going through the system.

The ABC plan launched by an NGO to have language textbooks translated into African languages to enable students to get a better understanding of the subject before doing it in English is to be commended. The ACDP congratulates those involved in this project.

The ACDP identifies with concern that children are being made to learn a language which is foreign to them before they have grasped at least the basics of reading and writing in their mother tongue, just as a child should not be exposed to sex education, which cuts across values held by the family, or forced to learn interfaith religion from Grade R, as Minister Kader Asmal has pledged. Learning about other faiths and responsible sex education can be useful just as other languages can be, but at the appropriate stage.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I think you are exceeding the scope of the topic. You should return to the topic. [Interjections.]

Ms C DUDLEY: It was, in fact, Christian missionaries who originally codified the African languages, making it possible for them to be read and be written. [Interjections.] But government interference in schools for the purpose of social engineering is not acceptable.

Minister Kader Asmal, by his own admission, is obsessed with controlling all aspects of education through one mandatory curriculum which imposes radical sex education, compulsory interfaith religion, takes away the rights of parents and dictates content. This is a travesty and will culminate in a disaster.

Parents must have the final say, through school governing bodies, etc, on critical issues - including language - which affect their children as they are answerable to God for the choices they make. The state must not be allowed to usurp this very important and fundamental responsibility. [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I think you put the Chair in a difficult position when you take the main topic and treat it incidentally, and then take the incidental issues and make them the main aspect of the debate. I think you need to be able to deal with the substantive issue as the main issue.

Ms C DUDLEY: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Is language and education separable? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, if you look at the thrust of the debate, you will find that it deals with the need to promote mother tongue languages and, I think, that is what this House is treating at the moment: how to promote mother tongue usage.

Dr C P MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, met die skryf van die Suid-Afrikaaanse Grondwet het hierdie Regering veeltaligheid gekies. Hulle het dit nie net gekies nie, maar ook opdrag, volgens artikel 62 van die Grondwet, om juis veeltaligheid te bevorder. Tog gebeur dit nie.

Die eerste teken dat ‘n taalgroep onderdruk word, is wanneer hy nie deur onderwys sy taal van geslag tot geslag kan oordra nie. Minister Asmal het ‘n studiegroep saamgestel om die waardes van die onderwys te bepaal. In hulle werkstuk word ses waardes uitgewys, waarvan die derde een is dat veeltaligheid ‘n wesentlike norm van die onderwys is. Ons sê geluk daarmee. Die probleem is egter dat in die praktyk meer as 80% van Suid-Afrikaanse kinders tans nie moedertaalonderwys in Suid-Afrika ontvang nie.

Mev M P COETZEE-KASPER: Mnr die Voorsitter, op ‘n punt van orde: is dit parlementêr dat die agb mnr Koos van der Merwe in die Huis eet, en dat ons almal moet hongerly? [Gelag.] [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, with the writing of the South African Constitution this Government chose multilingualism. They not only chose this, but have also been instructed, in accordance with section 62 of the Constitution, to promote multilingualism. However, this is not happening.

The first sign that a language group is being oppressed, is when it cannot pass on its language from generation to generation through education. Minister Asmal has called together a study group to determine the values of education. In their report six values are highlighted, of which the third one is that multilingualism is a fundamental norm of education. We congratulate them on that. The problem, however, is that in practice more than 80% of South African children presently are not receiving mother tongue education in South Africa.

Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for the hon Mr Koos van der Merwe to be eating in the House, and that we should all go hungry? [Laughter.] [Interjections.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Let us carry on with the debate.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mr Chairperson, may I just, in terms of the Rules, reply and say to the hon member that it is peanuts and certain animals eat them. The member can have one.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEE: Order! Thank you, hon member. Please preserve the decorum of the House so that the hon member can continue with his speech.

Dr C P MULDER: Dit is jammer dat ANC-lede tydens die bespreking van ‘n onderwerp soos hierdie sit en grappe maak oor ``peanuts’’. Dit laat ‘n mens wonder waarmee hulle besig is. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Binnekort moet die Minister egter belangrike besluite neem oor moedertaalonderwys op universiteitsvlak. Die VF het aanvaar dat Minister Asmal die beginsel van moedertaalonderwys verstaan, tog vra hy hoekom daar in die vorige bedeling twee universiteite, naamlik Wits en die Randse Afrikaanse Universiteit, slegs vier kilometer van mekaar was. Hy vra die vraag of dit deel was van die verwronge denke van apartheid.

In België sal Minister Asmal vind dat in Brussel ‘n Vlaamse universiteit en ‘n Franse universiteit slegs ‘n paar kilometer van mekaar af lê. Die vraag is: is dit ook die gevolge van ``die verwronge logika van apartheid’’, of is dit doodeenvoudig die beginsel van moedertaalonderwys, toegepas tot op universiteitsvlak?

Swartmense toon aan hoe apartheid hulle waardigheid aangetas het, en wil hê dat dit herstel moet word. Afrikaanse kinders is ná 1902 geforseer om in Engels te leer, en die boodskap was duidelik: as jou taal minderwaardig is, is jy ook minderwaardig. Watter ander boodskap moet swart kinders vandag kry as hulle nie moedertaalonderwys kan volg tot op die hoogste vlakke nie, maar geforseer word om in Engels te leer?

Verlede week kon ek Minister Ben Ngubane van die IVP … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[It is a pity that ANC members, during the discussion of a topic such as this, are making jokes about peanuts. This makes one wonder what they are busy with. [Interjections.]

Shortly the Minister, however, would be making important decisions about mother tongue education at university level. The FF has accepted that Minister Asmal understands the principal of mother tongue education, but he still asks why, in the previous dispensation, there were two universities, namely Wits and the Rand Afrikaans University, merely four kilometres from one another. He asked the question as if this was part of the warped ideas of apartheid.

In Belgium Minister Asmal will find that in Brussels a Flemish university and a French university are situated merely a few kilometres apart. The question is: Is this also as a result of the ``warped logic of apartheid’’, or is this simply the principle of mother tongue education, applied at university level?

Black people indicate how apartheid have affected their dignity, and would like to have this redressed. Afrikaans children were forced to study in English after 1902, and the message was clear: If your language is inferior, you are also inferior.

What other message is black children receiving today if they cannot receive education up to the highest levels in their mother tongue, but are being forced to study in English?

Last week Mr Ben Ngubane of the IFP …]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Are you rising on a point of order, hon member?

Dr Z P JORDAN: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: I would like to bring to the attention of the House, as another point of order was raised earlier, that there is no interpretation from Afrikaans into Xhosa, Tswana, Zulu and Sotho. So, especially on this day it is very weird actually that our Parliament is just failing us in this respect. I actually understand Afrikaans perfectly, so I do not need an interpretation, but I am sure that there are other hon members who do not. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Taking into consideration the response of the House, it is quite clear that this is a matter that hon members in this House believe need to be given attention. As you know, there is no policy on this subject at present. The policy question has been deferred, and I believe that it might now be necessary and imperative that such a policy be put in place.

Hon member, I am going to give you a few seconds of injury time. Please continue.

Dr C P MULDER: Daar het vandag ‘n wonderwerk gebeur. Ek laat die res van my toespraak en ek gebruik die laaste paar sekondes hiervoor. Die VF pleit al vir jare in hierdie Parlement vir veeltaligheid en dat verskillende tale gebruik moet word. Vandag het daar ‘n wonderwerk gebeur. ANC-lede, oor die spektrum heen, het ook skielik veeltaligheid ontdek. Ons is baie dankbaar daarvoor. Hulle is die Regering van Suid-Afrika. Hulle is in beheer van die strukture en van die geld. Ons sien uit daarna dat hulle ‘n ordentlike vertaaldiens in hierdie Parlement inbring, en dat hulle al die tale in Suid- Afrika die erkenning gee wat hulle verdien, nie net Afrikaans nie, maar ook al die ander tale.

Ek is baie dankbaar daarvoor, en ek hoop hulle sal dit daadwerklik uitvoer. Hulle grootste probleem met die situasie tans, as ek na ANC-lede vandag geluister het, is hulle eie Minister van Onderwys, Minister Asmal, wat besig is met Engels, Engels, alles Engels. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: I have witnessed a miracle today. I am abandoning the rest of my speech and I am using the last few seconds for this. For many years the FF has been pleading in this Parliament for multilingualism and that different languages should be used. Today a miracle has happened. ANC members, throughout the spectrum, have also suddenly discovered multilingualism. We are thankful for that. They are the Government of South Africa. They are in control of the structures and the money. We are looking forward to their implementing a proper translation service in this Parliament, and that they would give all the languages in South Africa the recognition which they deserve, not only in Afrikaans, but also in all the other languages.

I am very thankful for that and I hope that they are going to do this immediately. The greatest problem with the situation currently, if I listen to the ANC members today, is that their own Minister of Education, Minister Asmal, is only busy with English, English, everything English. [Time expired.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, the hon Mr T Abrahams raised the issue of an interpretation service not being available in the press gallery. The situation, as I have been notified, is that such a service does, in fact, exist and that those who are in the press gallery can avail themselves of the interpretation service. So I think that that situation is in hand, and is not a problem. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Are you rising on a point of order, hon member? HON MEMBERS: We cannot hear him!

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Will you please come back to the microphone, hon member? I cannot hear you, and I do not think anyone else in the House can. Will you please address the House using a microphone?

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Chair, it has just been indicated to me by the people in the press gallery that they cannot hear the interpretation.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! If the people in the press gallery can still not hear the interpretation, I would appreciate it if they could get in touch with the Table so that we can ascertain what the problem is and deal with it.

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: Mr Chairperson, hon members of the House, this debate is significant to me and, I can safely assume, to the majority of the people of South Africa, because it addresses the most important aspect in the transformation process of our country. South Africa is a very diverse society in terms of language and culture and because of this, the whole country is challenged to facilitate unity in diversity.

The ANC-led Government has already made some significant strides to facilitate, firstly, respect for all cultures and languages through the Constitution and legislation, and secondly, the promotion, protection and development of the existing and the almost extinct languages, specifically the Khoisan languages. The coat of arms is a living example in this regard.

The legislative framework is not all that can bring about the quality of transformation that this country needs. This is a challenge that Government shares with communities, as well as the private sector. We all need to rise to the call that the President has just made in his state of the nation address, ie to lend a hand in the national effort to build a better life for all.

We call upon all the institutions, including the private sector, also to respond to this call by recognising the importance of different languages and cultures in the services that they provide to different communities. Banks, hospitals, courts of law, universities and Parliament are called upon to employ a culturally diverse group of people to cater for different population groups with different cultures and languages.

A bank, a court of law and a hospital should be ready to receive an old African woman pensioner who has never been to school, but needs the services of these institutions. This is a citizen with equal rights as enshrined in the Constitution, and one such right is for all languages to be given equal status and respect.

An old Xhosa woman was happy when she was listening to the Minister of Finance making a policy statement in her language about ``ukukhuphuka kwe- nkamnkam’’ [the raise in pension benefits]. [Laughter.] This is the attitude that Parliament and other institutions should promote.

The deepening of democracy is about people having to fill in the forms in the banks using their mother tongues. The deepening of democracy is about people visiting hospitals and being able to explain their illnesses in their mother tongues.

The notion of indigenous knowledge systems becomes very important if the question of language and culture is to be taken seriously by all South Africans. It is important because it will facilitate systematic revitalisation of indigenous knowledge systems, so that we are all able to understand the cultural connotations of diverse languages and behaviour patterns. It is when we understand each other’s cultures that respect comes automatically.

Africans, over centuries, have evolved systems of knowledge that saw them playing a key role in the development of human civilisation. Under colonisation and apartheid, as well as global oppression, these systems were repressed, ridiculed and generally afforded a low social status. However, these systems have continued to exist in the minds of the people. They have continued to inform the existence, frameworks and meaning, especially of the majority of those who we often regarded as being illiterate.

A nation, upon attaining freedom and independence, should as a rule look for those aspects of life that have sustained it over time. It should furthermore seek to incorporate this knowledge system into its current system of education, culture and economic development. This debate today should be seen in the context of the legislation that is before the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government - section 185 of the Constitution, which establishes a commission ``to promote and protect the rights of cultural, religious and linguistic communities’’. The main objective of the commission is to promote and develop peace, friendship, humanity, tolerance and unity among and within cultural, religious and linguistic communities or community councils.

Aforika Borwa ke legae la etsho. Ka maleme a le 11, re ka kgona go tsosolosa ditso tsa rona tse di neng di re latlhegetse mo nakong ya puso tsa tlhaolele. Batho ba ne ba jaka ka loleme, mme selo se se tswala ke gore e re motho a ile go jaka tiro, ene a bo a jaka loleme le le kgotlelang puo ya gaabo, e a e antseng letseleng.

Mongwe wa bakwadi o kile a kwala buka mme a re, Ke e antse letseleng. Go dirisa lefoko leo ``letsele’’ ke go natefisa puo. Ga re na letsele, letsele ke la kgomo. Motho o na le lebele. Seo ke Setswana. [Legofi.] Tota lefoko la nnete ke lebele, mme re dirisa letsele ka gonne re batla go natefisa puo. Jaanong fa o bua ka lebele, mmadi a ka e tsaya jaaka peo: re na le le lebele. Puo e e jaaka Setswana e ikadile gape mo pokong. Puo ya poko e a rorisa, puo ya poko e thuthufatsa pelo ya mokiwa, puo ya poko e senola gore motho ke morwa mang ka esi. Dumela pilana a manosa. A manosa.

E senola gore motho ke morwa mang ka esi. Setopo re supa nakedi, magagwe re mmega a sule. Ke bua jaana ka dilo tse di diragalang, e bile ke di bona. Fa motho o lebela mo ditheong tsa poraefete, o fitlhela gore maemo a botlhoka- tiro a kwa godimo. Sena se tliswa ke gore motho o itoma leleme fa a sa itse puo e e dirisiwang mo phaneleng ya dipotso-patlakitso le bokgoni ba tiro.

Fa motho o leba gape kwa di bankeng, o fitlhela e le leso tota mo tirelong ya bagodi kgotsa batsofe barona. Maleme a kgolagano e nna Afrikaans le Sekgoa. Tota le diforomo tse di dirisiwang di kwadilwe ka maleme a. Maleme a mangwe ona a kgapetswe thoko. E kete Puso e ka tsosetsa selo se matlho.

A maleme a lekalekane. A re kgaoganeng kuku ya Aforika Borwa. A re nneng kompa mo dikakanyong tsa go aga Aforika Borwa. Sedikwa ke ntswa pedi ga se thata. Tiro e thata ka beng. Aforika Borwa ya temokerasi e bonwe. A re se nneng ka diatla. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.) [South Africa is my home. With the 11 official languages we can revive our traditions which were forgotten during the apartheid regime. People used to adopt other languages. Instead of looking for jobs, people used to learn other languages and do injustice to their mother tongue by mixing it with the newly learned languages.

An author wrote a book called E antswe letseleng. The author chose the word, letsele'' to suit his style of writing. The wordletsele’’ refers to an animal breast, whereas a human breast is referred to as lebele''. That is the way it is put in Setswana. [Applause.] The right word is lebele’‘[human breast], but we use letsele'' [animal breast] to make it suit the style. When one uses the word lebele’’ in one’s writing, the reader may think that one is talking about a sorghum granule, which is also referred to as lebele'' in Setswana. Setswana also has a rich poetic vocabulary. Poetry praises warm the heart of the one being praised, and it also reveals the person's lineage. For example,Good morning, Pilane, son of Manosa.’’ ``Son of Manosa’’ reveals the person’s lineage.

Seeing is believing. I am talking about things that are taking place and which we can see. When one looks at the private institutions one realises that the unemployment rate is very high. This results from the fact that people experience problems with the language used by interviewing panels during interviews, filling in questionnaires and required among other job- related skills.

Client services in banks are not user-friendly with regard to our elderly. English and Afrikaans are used as mediums of communication. The forms are also available in these languages only. Other languages are marginalised. I wish the Government would open its eyes to this problem.

Let languages be equal. Let us share the South African cake. Let us be united in our ideas of building South Africa. United we stand. We should work together for our own good. A democratic South Africa has been realised. Let us not sit down and do nothing to improve our conditions.]

Finally, it is necessary to align ourselves with established norms in terms of section 6 of the Constitution, which says: ``All official languages must enjoy parity of esteem and be treated equitably.’’ The status and use of indigenous languages must be enhanced. Government must take legislative and other measures to regulate and monitor the use of all 11 official languages.

Kwa pele ka maleme, kwa pele [Forward with languages, forward!] Siyabonga. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you, hon member. The performance seems to have been much appreciated.

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: The greatest nations that are powerful today are by and large countries that promote diversity, as expressed by culture as practised and languages spoken in that particular country. This in itself should be regarded as a national asset. We seem not to treasure our languages and culture, maybe because we are unable to mobilise this resource in our favour to advance our own development or national interests. We all know that language is an integral part of a culture and facilitates, and shared values and norms that are translated into the educational system, which is responsible for the development of a body of knowledge that becomes a source of empowerment for individuals and the country at large.

The best scientists in the world are known to have been educated in their mother tongues. Countries such as France and Russia provide a classic example in this regard. We are not proposing that our higher education institutions alone should provide critical knowledge in indigenous languages, but that our public institutions, government agencies, schools and workplaces should instead form part of a knowledge-exchange environment, through cultural and social educational activities to empower ourselves.

The greatest challenge facing our country is to undo the effects of past unjust policies that sought to divide us through language. There is no doubt that language, in this case, was utilised effectively as a strong instrument to isolate South Africans from each other. Therefore, it is the same instrument that we need to deploy to unite South Africans. All languages in South Africa have to be promoted by making available resources in this battle.

Dr S E M PHEKO: I shall use the limited time at my disposal to address this subject in the context of African languages in this country. [Interjections.] These languages are scientifically constructed, as their grammar demonstrates. They are rich in proverbs and philosophy. It must also be appreciated that these languages are, in some respects, richer than English. For example, for the English word wash'', the Sesotho language has several which describe the action with precision.Ho hlapa’’ [washing the hands], Ho iphotla'' [washing the face], Ho ikutletsa’’ [washing the feet], Ho hlatswa'' [washing clothes] and Ho itola’’ [washing the body]. Some concepts in African languages cannot be translated into English. How does one translate: Mabewana a boKadi-a- Tsholo mailangwathelwa batho ba jang polokwe kaofela?'' This proverb is the opposite ofhalf a loaf is better than nothing’’. African languages have no problems with the he’s and she’s. They have modulasetulo'' or mgcinisihlalo’’. The quarrel about chairman is a non-African affair.

The English language says God made man in his image. African languages use umntu'' ormotho’’. The pronoun of the ``u’’ does not indicate the gender of the person. African languages do not indicate whether God is a man or a woman, unlike the English language, which long ago decided He is a he. It must be admitted that African languages suffer a lack of technical terminology. Teachers and lecturers of African languages in high schools and universities must ensure that the language of technology is developed.

African languages can be used to teach many skills. Africans do not need to master English before they learn a skill. The Germans have built the Mercedes Benz car. They do not speak English. The Chinese have acquired nuclear weapons. They do not speak English.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: For the information of the House, the term chairman'' is actually an abbreviation ofchair manager’’, so it has no sexist connotations. [Interjections.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chaiperson, when my grandfather was in school at the beginning of the previous century he often had to carry a little board round his neck that said donkey''. This happened when he was caught speaking thekombuistaal’’ Afrikaans. A Mr Sergant, the British Colonial Superintendent of Education wrote to Milner on 3 June 1901, as follows:

Our sisters and daughters must complete that part of the work which their male relatives are unable to accomplish. Our military police have gathered the greater part of the child population into these camps and … the opportunity during the next year of getting them all to speak English is golden.

Maar dit is nou iets van die verlede, sal u sê, kom ons vier vandag die wonder van die verhewe stand van elke moedertaal onder die nuwe Grondwet in Suid-Afrika. Maar, beleef ons nie dalk vandag ‘n situasie van interne kolonialisme, van ‘n nuwe Milnerisme, nie? Die Departement van Openbare Werke, en ander staatsdepartmente, verbied Afrikaners byvoorbeeld om in hul moedertaal te skryf of te kommunikeer. Dit blyk ook dat 80% van die klagtes wat PanSAT ontvang teen die Regering gemik is. Minister Asmal sê die bestaan van die RAU 4 kilometer van Wits af is ``deel van die gevolge van die verwronge apartheidsdenke’’ van daardie tyd en kla dat taal in die pad staan van transformasie. Verder is daar by ‘n debat soos vandag s’n net drie Ministers teenwoordig.

Ook vir Afrikaners is hul taal, soos Roland Barthes, die beroemde Franse literêre teoretikus, gesê het, die ``naelstringtaal’’ wat hulle aan hierdie kontinent verbind. Die taalkundige J C Steyn beskryf Afrikaans as ons Afrikataal wat ons aan Afrika verbind.

Terwyl hy in die gevangenis was, skryf Breyten Breytenbach oor sy bejaarde moeder, Ounooi, en haar taal:

ek dra jou bene, jou kantelende bloed en die klanke van jou keel- o moeder, seën my voor u gaan!

Saam met Breyten Breytenbach vier ons vandag die klanke van die moederkeel. Kom ons maak erns daarmee. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[But, you will say, that all is in the past now, come let us celebrate the wonder of the elevated position of each mother tongue under the new Constitution in South Africa. But are we not perhaps experiencing a situation of internal colonialism, of a new Milnerism? The Department of Public Works and other state departments for example do not allow Afrikaners to write or communicate in their mother tongue. It is also apparent that 80% of the complaints received by PanSALB are against the Government. Minister Asmal says that the existence of RAU only 4 kilometres from Wits is part of the results of a ``warped apartheid philosophy’’ of that time and complains that language is standing in the way of transformation. Furthermore, at a debate like this one today only three Ministers are present.

Even for Afrikaners their language is, as the famous French literary theoritician, Roland Barthes, said, the ``language of the umbilical cord’’ that joins them to this continent. The language professional J C Steyn described Afrikaans as our African language that binds us to Africa.

While he was in prison, Breyten Breytenbach wrote about his elderly mother, Ounooi, and her language, as follows:

ek dra jou bene, jou kantelende bloed en die klanke van jou keel- o moeder, seën my voor u gaan!

Along with Breyten Breytenbach we celebrate today the sounds of the mother’s throat. Come, let us be serious about it. [Applause.]]

Vho P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Mudzulatshidulo, maṱo a vhona vhathu. Azapo i a fhululedza zwoṱhe zwine zwa khou itiwa, u itela uri nyambo dza vhathu vhatswu dzi kone u wana dzulo ḽadzo ḽe ḽa dzhiwa nga tshifhinga tsha musi ri tshi khou kwanyeledzwa.

Azapo i khou ri: hezwi zwine ra khou zwi ita hafha, zwi songo fhelela fhano khoroni heyi fhedzi. Zwi fanela u fhelela kha musi vhathu vha tshi kona u shumisa nyambo dzavho, huṅwe na huṅwe hune vha ḓiwana vhe hone.

Nḓila dzine Muvhuso wa khou dzi bveledza, dza u ita uri nyambo dzi wane vhutshilo hadzo, ndi zwine ra khou ṱoḓa nga zwo uri ri ḓivhe zwauri Muvhuso u khou ita zwifhio. U bva tshe ra wana mbofholowo, a hu athu u vha na zwine ra tou zwi vhona zwine zwa khou ita uri nyambo hedzi dzi kone u bvela phanḓa – ngamaanḓa musi ri tshi sedza vha khasho ya Afurika Tshipembe (Public Broadcaster)

Huna nyambo dzine dza kha ḓi kwanyeledzwa, dzine dza sa khou shumisiwa u fana na dziṅwe. Muvhuso u fanela uri u zwi dzhiele nzhele hezwo.

Mbofholowo ye ra i lwela, i fanela uri i vhofholole na dzi ndimi dzashu, u itela uri ri songo kwanyeledzwa nga ndimi dze ra dzi fhiwa nga havho vhe vha vha vho ri kwanyeledza. Ndaa! [U vhanda zwanḓa.] (Translation of Venḓa speech follows.)

[Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, Azapo applauds everything that is being done to make African languages get back their positions, which were taken from them during the time of our oppression.

Azapo is saying that what we are doing here must not end in this House only, but should reach the people so that they are able to use their own languages wherever they find themselves.

The way in which the Government is promoting these languages, namely, making sure that they get their status back, is what makes us want to know: What is really being done? Since we got our freedom, nothing has been done to make sure that these languages are being promoted, more especially when we look at the South African Broadcasting Corporation, or the Public Broadcaster.

There are some languages that are still being oppressed and that are not used like others. The Government must intervene.

The freedom we fought for must liberate our languages, to make sure that we are not oppressed by the languages of those who oppressed us before. [Applause.]]

Mnr S E OPPERMAN: Mnr die Voorsitter, Max du Preez skryf in een van sy artikels dat dit belangrik is om die vermoë te kan hê om Engels te kan praat, te kan lees en te kan skryf. Dit is immers die taal van die sakewêreld en die taal waarmee mens wêreldwyd kan kommunikeer. Du Preez sê dat as daardie vermoë om in Engels te kommunikeer verkry is ten koste van ‘n mens se moedertaal, dan is die prys vir daardie vermoë te hoog.

‘n Onlangse opname het getoon dat die bruin kinders van Ravensmead op die Kaapse Vlakte wie se lewe en wêreld, in die woorde van Anastasia de Vries ``intens Afrikaans’’ is, besonder trots is op hulle Afrikaanswees. Hulle beskou hulself as Afrikaners en sê duidelik dat hulle Afrikaans, hul moedertaal, die belangrikste voertuig vir hulle kulturele identiteit, as ‘n middel tot bemagtiging gebruik waarmee hulle die trots van Afrikaanswees wil uitbou en ontwikkel.

Afrikaans is die taal waarin ogies toemaak om met die Oubaas te praat:

Onse Vader wat in die tjimmel in sit Ons wil nou vandag vir u kom bid Lat u se naam ook by ons geheilig raak Lat u se kapteinskap hier kom staningse maak.

Dis die taal waarin ons aanklop by die mottas'' [vroue], waarin ons troos en sing en toneelspeel en gedig het vir diepeople’’ en vir ons kinders - ook om die woede wat in ons was gedurende ‘n onheilige politieke bestel te verwerk.

Valentina Teresjkova, die naam moes jy dra; toe weer Leila Khaleb, want die pyn het gevra dat daar weerwraak moes kom. En die bitterheid van gister, in stormagtige gemoed het geroep om vergelding, moes gestil word met bloed. Jy word toe Natassjia, net Natassjia, dis al. Met jou borrelende vreugde het die gal weggeval en my arm gees van gister is verryk met jou deugde.

Ja, dis die taal waarin ons konfronteer en versoen. Aan die agb Minister wil ons sê dat die kinders in ons skole in Ravensmead en in die Karoo en in die Vrystaat en in die Noord-Kaap en ander dele van ons land, wil weer sing en dig en klavierspeel en op ‘n Afrikaanse manier met hul vingers in die verf mors en hul boodskap gaan oordra op Oudtshoorn by die Klein Karoo Nasionale Kunstefees en op die Voorbrandfeeste op Klaarstroom en Hoeko en Zoar en Deysselsdorp.

Ons durf nie langer toelaat dat hulle die geleentheid ontneem word om weer in ons skole hulle Afrikaanswees deur kuns en kultuur uit te leef nie. Dit is nodig dat hulle, in die woorde van die agb Adjunkminister van Kuns en Kultuur ``met ander oë na die wêreld begin kyk en met kennis van hulle verlede en groter begrip van die hede, die pad kan oopbreek na die toekoms’’. Volgens haar is ‘n volk wat sy kuns en kultuur koester, ‘n volk met vertroue en passie en drome.

Ons in die DA wil hierdie sentimente steun. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr S E OPPERMAN: Mr Chairman, in one of his articles Max du Preez wrote that it was important to have the ability to speak, read and write English. It is, after all, the language of the business world and the language in which people communicate worldwide. Du Preez said that if that ability to communicate in English had been acquired at the expense of one’s mother tongue the price of that ability was too high.

A recent survey showed that the coloured children of Ravensmead on the Cape Flats whose lives and world are, in the words of Anastasia de Vries, ``intensely Afrikaans’’, are extremely proud of being Afrikaans. They regard themselves as Afrikaners and say unequivocally that they use Afrikaans, their mother tongue, the most important vehicle for their cultural identity, as a means of empowerment with which they want to expand and develop the pride of being Afrikaans-speaking.

Afrikaans is the language in which they worship and pray to the Holy Father:

Onse Vader wat in die tjimmel in sit Ons wil nou vandag vir u kom bid Lat u se naam ook by ons geheilig raak Lat u se kapteinskap hier kom staningse maak.

It is the language in which we appeal to the ``mottas’’ [ladies], in which we comfort and sing and act and write poetry for the people and for our children - also to process the anger we experienced during an unholy political dispensation.

Valentina Teresjkova, die naam moes jy dra; toe weer Leila Khaleb, want die pyn het gevra dat daar weerwraak moes kom. En die bitterheid van gister, in stormagtige gemoed het geroep om vergelding, moes gestil word met bloed. Jy word toe Natassjia, net Natassjia, dis al. Met jou borrelende vreugde het die gal weggeval and my arm gees van gister is verryk met jou deugde.

Yes, this is the language in which we confront and reconcile. We want to say to the hon the Minister that the children in our schools in Ravensmead, and in the Karoo and in the Free State and in the Northern Cape, and in other parts of our country, want to once again sing and write poetry and play the piano and mess in paint with their fingers in the Afrikaans way and to communicate their messages at Oudtshoorn at the Klein Karoo Nasionale Kunstefees and at the Voorbrandfeeste at Klaarstroom and Hoeko and Zoar and Deysselsdorp. We dare no longer allow them to be denied the opportunity once again to live out their Afrikanerdom through the arts and culture in our schools. It is necessary for them, according to the words of the hon the Deputy Minister of Arts and Culture, to start looking at the world from a different perspective and with knowledge of their past and a greater understanding of the present, to be able to open the way to the future. According to her a people which cherishes its art and culture is a people with confidence and passion and dreams.

We in the DA want to support these sentiments. [Applause.]]

Mong B M KOMPHELA: Modulasetulo, ke lebohile haholo hore ke be e mong wa ba tlo tshwaela kajeno puong ena e kgabane hakana. Ntumelle le nna hore nke ke hahlahahle mantswe a mabedi a mararo, le nna ke thoholetsa puo ya letswele e leng puo ya mme, hore le yona kajeno tjena e fumane sebaka letsatsing. E ne e le moriti letsatsi le nyametse mme kajeno letsatsi le tjhabile le puo ya rona ke puo e nkuwang ke batho jwaloka dipuo tse ding. [Mahofi.]

Rona ho ANC re kgothaletsa dipuo tswa tswalo, dipuo tsa letswele, mme ntho eo ha se ntho eo re e etsang ka lebaka la hobane re batla ho ba le sehlekehleke sa rona moo re tla buang ka teng hore ke moo re sireletsang puo ya rona ya setho ya letswele. Ke moo re kgonang hore re ahe setjhaba ka teng ka puo, mme rona ho ANC re re puo e ka ba ntho e nngwe e kotsi le ho feta, eo o ka reng ka puo o ka aha setjhaba, wa kh’isizwe, eo o reng ka puo o ka qhala setjhaba, wa si chitha isizwe. Leo ha se leihlo leo rona re bonang puo ka lona. Re bona puo ka leihlo leo re kgonang ho aha setjhaba se nang le bokamoso se shebetseng pele.

Ka tsela eo e jwalo, ke a itumela mme Mathoko Didiza hore o be le o le teng kajeno le ntate Gomomo. Ka lebaka la hobane le ba bang bao e leng baetapele ba bohlokwa bao e reng ha le palama sefola, le bue ka puo ya letswele hore le kwana hae ba utlwe, ba kgone ho thaba hore baetapele bana ba otla dintlha tse ntshetsang setjhaba pele. Ke batla hore ha se feela re ka kgonang hore re bue kajeno tjena ka hore na dipuo tsa rona di tlamehile ho etsuwa ka tsela efe. Re tlamehile hore dikolong ha bana ba qeta ho kena sekolo dilemong tsa bona tsa pele, Monghadi Ntuli, ke batla ke dumellana le wena, rona ho ANC, ha motho a etsa ntho e ntle re ye re mo bolelle re re, re dumellana le wena nthong eo e ntle eo o e etsang. Ha o bua ka hore bana ba rona re ba tjhorise ba sa le banyane, ba kgone hore ba ikgantshe ka puo ya letswele, o bua ntho e ntle moo ka lebaka la hobane thupa e kojwa e sa le metsi. [Mahofi.]

Ha re le mona Palamenteng ya rona, matjhabatjhaba a shebelletse hore na re nyenyefatsa puo ya rona ya Sesotho kapa ya Sexhosa kapa ya Sendebele na. Empa ha re ema mona re ye re bue jwaloka ba bang ba baetapele, re nonose re pepese makgabane a puo ya rona e nontshitsweng, e be le hae ba ikotla sefuba hore puo ya rona le yona ha se puo e ileng ya nkuwa ke bokolone.

Ke batla hore ke tshwaele tabeng tse ding tsena, tsa hore ha kajeno tjena ho na le lehlaso le reng re ile ra le bolella hore dipuo di be kae. Ke batho ba batsho ba Aforika Borwa ba ratang kgotso ba ileng ba re, haeba banna bana ba re kurutletsang ka majwe, ba re ke puo e ka etsang hore ho be le kgotso le ntshetsopele ka hare ho naha ena, re fa baetapele ba rona tumello ya hore dipuo di be leshome le motso o mong. Lebaka e le hobane re shebetse pele mme re batla ho bona naha ena e tsepame ena le bokamoso, batho bohle ba una Aforikeng Borwa e ntjha ena.

Sena ha se se ileng sa etswa ka phoso kapa seo setjhaba sa rona se se entseng ka phoso. E ne e le qeto e bohloko haholo ka lebaka la hobane ha MaAforikana a ne a hlahisa puo ya hore Afrikaans e be yona puo e ka sehloohong, re ile ra bona ka tsela eo ba neng ba sebedisa puo eo kateng. Ho na le ntho eo ke ba tlang ho tshwaela ho bona, hore ba ile ba tseba hore ba ahe puo ya bona ya Afrikaans ka tsela efe, mme ba e sireletse. Empa ba ile ba ruruha dihlooho, ha ba tshwanetse ba e sireletse ke ha ba e kenya diqoqothong tsa rona, mme eitse ha re kgora ke yona ra phatloha re re ha re e batle. [Mahofi.]

Hoja ba ne ba nkile hore puo ena ya Afrikaans, ka baka la hobane Afrika Borwa ke ya rona kaofela, ba ile ba iketsa batho, ba kgumama ba itekanya le rona ba se be hodimo kwana, ha re hopole hore ha re sheba morao, diketsahalo tse ileng tsa etsahala di ka be di ile tsa etsahala. Rona ho ANC, ha ho puo e tla nkuwang e bewa hodimo ho feta tse ding ka lebaka la hobane re ithutile ho Maburu hore ho etsahalang ha o nka puo e nngwe o e bea hodima tse ding. Puo ya ka ya ho qetela, Modulasetulo, ha o tla bona hore puo ke ntho e nngwe e bohloko haholo, ebile e le monate, ha ba fihla mane dimaeneng ho batho ba rona mme ba sa kgone ho bua le bona, ba hlahisa puo e nngwe eo ke sa utlweng ho buuwa ka yona mona, eo ho thweng ke Fanakalo. Sefanakalo seo, e ne e le hona hore re fe Maburu ana monyetla wa hore ba re bitse ka tsela ena eo ba neng ba re bitsa ka yona mane maeneng. Ha se puo ntho eno, ke ho nka dintho tsena kaofela o di palamisa koloing e le nngwe, e be ore ha ba e bue puo eno e jwalo.

Re batla hore ntlha eno e se ke ya ba yona eo re kgonang hore re tlohe ho yona, mme re kgone hore diphoso tseo ba di entseng, re ithute ka tsona. Re re rona, re hlompha puo e nngwe le e nngwe e teng ka hara Aforika Borwa, mme re tla e fa sebaka se seng le se seng se hlokahalang. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[Mr B M KOMPHELA: Hon Chairperson, I am very glad to be one of those who are taking part in this noble debate. Will you please allow me to utter a few words of praise in respect of my vernacular, because it is also represented here today. It was dark, without sunshine, but today the sun is shining, and our language is regarded like any other language by everybody. [Applause.]

The ANC encourages the use of vernacular languages and we do not do that because of our quest for a linguistic island where we will claim to be protecting our indigenous languages. We are able to build the nation through the use of language, and we in the ANC would like to point out that language is a very dangerous phenomenon, because through language one can build or destroy a nation. That is not the way in which we perceive language. We perceive it in the manner that would enable us to build a nation which has a brighter future and potential.

I am therefore glad to realise that Ms Thoko Didiza and Mr Gomomo are also here today. This is because they are some of the most important leaders who often use the indigenous languages whenever they make speeches, so that even those at home can hear and appreciate that their leaders are giving facts that are about building the nation. I would like to point out that it is not only today that we are able to speak about the fate of our languages.

I would like to agree with Mr Ntuli that our children must be exposed to their indigenous languages at a very early age so that they can be proud of their languages. This is what the ANC appreciates. [Applause.]

When we are here in Parliament people from other countries are observing whether or not we undermine our indigenous languages, ie Sesotho, isiXhosa, or isiNdebele. We normally stand up and speak like some of the leaders who promote and exhibit the richness of our languages of which we our proud and we boast that they were not swept away by colonialism.

I would like to talk about the chorus that says: We told you how many languages there should be. It is the peace-loving black South Africans who said: If these men, who are throwing stones at us, say it is the language that can bring peace and prosperity in this country, then we allow our leaders to implement 11 official languages. The reason is that we are looking forward to seeing this country having a bright future, with all its people benefiting.

This was not done by mistake by our people, it was a very painful decision, because when the Afrikaners decided that Afrikaans should be the first official language, we became aware of how that language was used. There is one thing I would like to commend them for and that is the way they developed, strengthened and protected Afrikaans. However, they became conceited in order to protect it and they shoved it down our throats and forced it on us to such an extent that we exploded and rejected it. [Applause.]

If only they had treated Afrikaans in the same way as other languages, as South Africa belongs to all of us, and not made it superior to other languages, we do not think, when we look back, that the things that had happened in the passed would have happened. The ANC takes no particular language as superior to any other language, because we have learned from the Afrikaners’ mistakes and seen what happens when one language is made superior to other languages.

Lastly, to recognise the advantages and disadvantages of a language, in the mining industry, where our people could not speak the language of the Afrikaners, the latter introduced a certain language called Fanakalo. This language gave the Afrikaners an opportunity to call us names that we did not appreciate. It is not a language, it is just like taking everything available and putting it together and calling it a language.

We need to make that our point of departure and learn from their mistakes. The ANC says that it respects each and every language in this country, and each language will be given a fair and necessary opportunity.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order?

Mr C AUCAMP: Nee, mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil weet of the agb lid bereid is om ‘n vraag te beantwoord. [Tussenwerpsels.] [No, Mr Chairman, I want to know whether the hon member is prepared to take a question. [Interjections.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Before proceeding, hon member at the podium, are you willing to take a question from the hon Mr Aucamp?

Mr B M KOMPHELA: No, Chairperson, I am not prepared to do so. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, he is not prepared to do so. [Interjections.] Hon member, you may proceed with your speech.

Mnr B M KOMPHELA: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is die manier, houding en benadering van lede soos die agb Aucamp wat hierdie land in hierdie omstandighede laat beland het. Vandag wil hy egter nie verstaan dat ons besig is om die land op te bou nie.

Dit was ‘n groot fout om Afrikaans op die meerderheid van ons swartmense af te dwing. Ons het egter gesien en het waardering vir hoe die Afrikaners Afrikaans verdedig, maar dit was ‘n groot fout om dit op ons af te dwing. [Applous.]

Ons is nie skaam om te sê dat mense se Engels vandag beter is as Afrikaans nie. Wat is die verskil tussen Engels en die Afrikaans wat op swart mense afgedwing is? Daar is geen verskil nie. Die Afrikaners was die verdrukkers, net soos die Engelse wat die Afrikaners verdruk het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr B M KOMPHELA: Mr Chairperson, it is the manner, attitude and approach of members such as the hon Aucamp that have caused this country to end up in these circumstances. But today he does not want to understand that we are trying to build this country.

It was a big mistake to force Afrikaans on the majority of our black people. We have, however, seen and can appreciate how the Afrikaners are defending Afrikaans, but forcing it on us was a big mistake. [Applause.]

We are not ashamed to say that today the people’s English is better than their Afrikaans. What is the difference between English and the Afrikaans that was forced on black people? There is no difference. The Afrikaners were the oppressors, just like the English who oppressed the Afrikaners.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order?

Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it in order for the hon member to try and answer a question that has never been asked? [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, you are quite free to proceed if you think that that was the question. [Interjections.]

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Mnr die Voorsitter … [Mr Chairman …]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order? [Interjections.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Yes, Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order. [Interjections.] For your sake, I will speak English. Is it not ordinary parliamentary procedure that you have the right to ask a question? It seems to me that if you want to ask a question, you are often accused of racism, and whatever other nonsense, before its content has been heard! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, there are two points here, the first point is as follows: The right to take a question is that of the speaker at the podium, and only that speaker can indicate whether he or she wants to take a question or not. That is the first part.

The second part is the right of the individual who is speaking to anticipate what might be asked, knowing that different people from different political parties have different political persuasions. Therefore, if they wish to build into their speeches such reply that anticipates what the question might have been, that, again, is the right of the individual at the podium. I hope that suffices. [Interjections.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, with all due respect, may I ask that your last ruling be checked, because I cannot agree with that, namely that even if a question is not answered, one can, in anticipation, be accused of what another member thinks one was going to say. That is not how we should proceed on this matter. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I will take that up. I will certainly take it for advice and rule on it. [Interjections.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, may I address you on a further point of order?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, hon member.

Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, you indicated to the hon member that there are two occasions, and you have put your point of view across, but I would appreciate it if you could also bring to the attention of the House that the Rules also make provision for a member, in all fairness, to put a question to the speaker at the podium. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I think that is your right and we have, therefore, allowed you that right. I have recognised whomever has stood up to ask that, but in order that I may be able to indicate whether you may or may not put a question, I in turn have to ask the person at the podium whether the question should be taken. So, that right has been given, but, of course, under the conditions which I have detailed. [Interjections.] Hon member, you may proceed.

Mnr B M KOMPHELA: Mnr die Voorsitter, baie dankie dat u my beskerm. Ek wil egter net ‘n punt aan die twee agb lede van die verskillende partye stel. Die Huis staan, omdat die partye baie aggressief en arrogant optree deur weer eens vir ons te kom sê wat ons moet sê; wanneer om dit te sê; en of dit korrek is om ‘n vraag te neem, of nie. Dit is baie arrogant en dit wys hierdie mense bly nog in ‘n ander land, nié hier in die nuwe Suid-Afrika nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.]

Ons nooi egter al hierdie mense uit om saam met ons hierdie land op te bou. Hulle moet met ons saamwerk om hierdie land ‘n beter plek te maak. Ons wil, net soos hulle, dit doen. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr B M KOMPHELA: Mr Chairperson, thank you for protecting me. I do, however, want to make a point to those two hon members of different parties. There is a commotion in the House because these parties are acting aggressively and arrogantly by telling us, once again, what we should be saying; when we should say it; and whether it is correct or not to take a question. That is very arrogant and it shows that these people are still living in another country and not here in the new South Africa. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

We are inviting all of these people, however, to build this country along with us. They must co-operate with us in order to make this country a better place. We want to do that, just like they do.]

Ke ka tsela eo le ba bonang ba le ka yona, ka lebaka la hobane ntho enngwe le enngwe e bang e etswa ho bona, e ke ke ya fetolwa empa ebang e etswa ho nna ke le mokgutshwanyane ke le motshonyana ke ka hoo o ba bonang ba ikeme ka lepaketla tjena batho bana. Mme ke nahana hore ba phela naheng enngwe mme, puo ena ya bona ya seAfrikaanse re tla e aha le bona ba ratang kapa ba sa rate. [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)

[It is for that reason, therefore, that you see their being as they are. It is because they think that whatever is done by them cannot be changed. But if it is done by me, being short in height and dark in complexion, then it can virtually be changed. That is why you see them insisting so much. But I would like to inform them that we will participate in the development of their language, ie Afrikaans, whether they like it or not. [Applause.]]

Debate concluded.

                 OMISSION OF MOTION 1 ON ORDER PAPER

                           (Announcement)

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees announced that Motion No 1 on the Order Paper had by omission not been moved and that he would now give the Chief Whip of the Majority Party an opportunity to move the motion.

 MAKING OF RECOMMENDATIONS BY PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, with reference to the letter from the Minister of Communications of 31 January 2002 concerning the filling of vacancies on the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (Icasa) Council (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 102), the Portfolio Committee on Communications make recommendations to the House for the filling of the vacancies in accordance with section 5 of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Act (Act No 13 of 2000), the Committee to report to the House by 3 May 2002.

Agreed to. MULTIPARTY PARLIAMENTARY OBSERVER TEAM LEAVING FOR ZIMBABWE’S PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that the multiparty Parliamentary Observer Team will leave for Zimbabwe tomorrow to observe the Zimbabwean Presidential elections;

(2) believes that it is in the interests, not only of Zimbabwe, but of all the people in the Southern African region that the people of Zimbabwe should have the opportunity to elect their President in an atmosphere free from violence and intimidation and through an electoral process that is genuinely free and fair;

(3) also notes the undertaking made by the government of Zimbabwe at the SADC extraordinary summit on 14 January 2002 in Blantyre, Malawi, as contained in the final SADC communiqué on the Zimbabwean Presidential elections;

(4) believes that adherence to the SADC undertaking should form part of the basis on which the freeness and fairness of the elections is determined;

(5) further notes -

   (a)  the concern  expressed  by  the  SADC  summit  over  a  previous
       statement made by the Zimbabwean army  on  the  outcome  of  the
       election and the summit's urging of the government  of  Zimbabwe
       to ensure that, in  accordance  with  the  multiparty  political
       dispensation prevalent in the  SADC,  political  statements  are
       made not by the military, but by political leaders; and


   (b)  that this concern is consistent with the OAU position  regarding
       the conduct of the military in political affairs; and

(6) believes that - (a) it is in the interests of both the people of Zimbabwe and the people of South Africa that the parliamentary delegation, in conjunction with the other delegations from South Africa, undertakes its task with responsibility, impartiality and integrity; and

   (b)  the presence of the multiparty Parliamentary  Observer  Team  in
       Zimbabwe will make a constructive contribution towards  ensuring
       that the election process is free and fair.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 16:22. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: (1) The Minister of Transport on 12 February 2002 submitted a draft of the National Railway Safety Regulator Bill, 2002, as well as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Transport and the Select Committee on Public Services by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (2)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional  Development  on  19
     February 2002 submitted a draft of  the  Prevention  of  Corruption
     Bill, 2002, as well as the memorandum  explaining  the  objects  of
     the proposed legislation, to the Speaker  and  the  Chairperson  in
     terms of Joint Rule  159.  The  draft  has  been  referred  to  the
     Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional  Development  and
     the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs by  the
     Speaker and  the  Chairperson,  respectively,  in  accordance  with
     Joint Rule 159(2).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bills, subject to proposed amendments, passed by  National  Council
     of Provinces on 21 February 2002 and transmitted for  consideration
     of Council's proposed amendments:


     (i)      Animal  Identification  Bill  [B  49  -  2001]   (National
            Assembly  -  sec   75)   (for   proposed   amendments,   see
            Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 27).


     (ii)    Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions  Amendment  Bill
            [B 66B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec  75)  (for  proposed
            amendments,  see  Announcements,  Tablings   and   Committee
            Reports, p 27).


     The  Bills  have  been  referred  to  the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs of the National Assembly for a  report
     on the amendments proposed by the Council.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 (1)    Proclamation No R.1 published in the Government Gazette No 23035
     dated  18  January   2002,   Referral   of   matters   to   Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunal, made in terms  of  section
     2(2) of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,
     1996 (Act No 74 of 1996).


 (2)    Government Notice No R.1087 published in the Government  Gazette
     No 22796 dated 26 October 2001, Magistrates' Courts:  Amendment  of
     the Rules of Court, made in terms of section  6  of  the  Rules  of
     Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).


 (3)    Government Notice No R.1088 published in the Government  Gazette
     No 22796 dated 26 October 2001, Amendment of the  Rules  regulating
     the conduct of the proceedings of the several provincial and  local
     divisions of the High Court of South Africa, made in terms  of  the
     Rules of Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Tourism, Hospitality  and  Sport
 Education and Training Authority for 2000-2001.