TUESDAY, 15 OCTOBER 2002
                                ____

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:00.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, a temporary sound system has been installed as you will remember that on our last day we had difficulties. Eight floor microphones plus two roving microphones are available, apart from the podium microphone which is fully operational.

Ms M M MAUNYE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes with horror and dismay the barbaric killing of more than 182 people in a bomb blast in the Indonesian resort island, Bali, on 12 October 2002;

(2) further notes that this cowardly act is reminiscent of the killing of unarmed civilians in Kenya, Nairobi and the World Trade Centre recently;

(3) believes that terrorist actions against unarmed people constitute a cowardly act, and an inhuman act which must be condemned by all;

(4) expresses sincere condolences to the relatives of the deceased, the people and the government of Indonesia;

(5) wishes the injured speedy recovery; and

(6) calls on the international community to ensure that incidents of this nature do not occur again.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that 1 409 DA councillors were elected in 2000 and that 612 of them were members of the New NP nominated by Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk;

(2) therefore notes with pleasure that only 228 of these councillors have turned their backs on the voters and rejected their mandate; and

(3) further expresses the hope that the rest of the councillors will resist the temptation of joining the ANC/New NP alliance in return for jobs and perks, and that they will continue providing efficient and good government where the DA is in power and principled and effective opposition where it is not.

[Applause.]

Mr E J LUCAS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness and shock that at least 190 people were killed and hundreds more, including a South African, were injured after a bomb exploded on the Indonesian resort island of Bali;

(2) offers its sincerest condolences to the families of the deceased and hopes that all the injured make a full recovery;

(3) strongly condemns such terrorist action and hopes that the necessary steps are being taken to deal with it; and

(4) urges all countries around the world to work together in combating terrorism.

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that three Pagad fugitives, Mogamat Isaacs, Faizel Samsodien and Ebrahim Jeneker, have been rearrested;

(2) congratulates members of the SAPS for their swift action in this regard; and

(3) calls on the communities to continue to work with police to ensure safety and security in South Africa.

[Applause.] Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice on behalf of the New NP that I shall move on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes that more than 300 DA councillors have already joined the New NP with many more to come before the end of the window period;

(2) commends these councillors on their decision to play a constructive role in SA politics instead of merely fighting back;

(3) furthermore notes that the DA, correctly described by The Economist of 12 October as a ``right-wing party’’, has already lost control of 15 councils; and

(4) especially notes that Stellenbosch, so triumphantly claimed by the DA as a DA stronghold, is the latest addition in this regard.

[Applause.] [Interjections.]

Prof L M MBADI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of this House:

That the House -

(1) notes that tomorrow is World Food Day;

(2) acknowledges the growing danger of large-scale hunger and starvation throughout the Southern African region;

(3) expresses its concern regarding the continuing rise in food prices, which brings closer with each passing day the spectre of starvation among the poor here in South Africa; and

(4) calls upon Government immediately to institute a food stamp programme to ensure that household food security amongst the poor is established and maintained. Mrs C I LUDWABE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness the untimely death of South Africa’s High Commissioner to Lesotho and an ANC veteran, Comrade Japhet Ndlovu, last Saturday;

(2) further notes the untimely death of Comrade Mary Mxadana who worked as a personal assistant to former President Nelson Mandela during his term of office;

(3) expresses its sincere condolences to the families of the deceased; and

(4) mourns the untimely death of these patriots.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ACDP at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that a 13-year-old girl, Lakita Fleur, was found dead on the railway track near her home in Uitsig on Sunday, after she threw herself in front of an oncoming train in a suicide attempt;

(2) further notes that this is a second child to be found dead on those railway lines in the past year;

(3) also notes that the railway track is not fenced off and that it runs through two informal settlements, less than 50 metres away from these children’s homes, providing an extremely dangerous environment;

(4) calls on Intercity immediately to fence off the area to ensure that no more children will fall prey to venturing into dangerous unprotected areas;

(5) calls on Government to put in place every measure and resource to ensure the safety of our children, and to make sure that whoever is responsible for the death of our future generations, be it a murderer or rapist, or the railway manager who did not ensure that the railway line was cordoned off from children, be held liable for the unnecessary loss of life; and

(6) calls on Government to stand with the ACDP in sending our sincere condolences to the Fleur family.

Dr P W A MULDER: Mev die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag van die Raad namens die VF sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) daarvan kennis neem dat -

   (a)  'n  Afrikaanse  radiostasie  in  sy  oggend-aktualiteitsprogram,
       Monitor, tans 'n opname onder sy luisteraars maak om  te  bepaal
       of politici hoër morele waardes as prostitute het;


   (b)  dit 'n regstreekse reaksie is op die polities  immorele  oorloop
       van raadslede waardeur kiesers voel dat hulle verkiesingsmandaat
       geïgnoreer word en hulle stemme gesteel word,  en  wat  op  alle
       lede van hierdie Huis reflekteer;


   (c)  die Regering beplan  om  voort  te  gaan  en  wetgewing  in  die
       Parlement in te dien om dit moontlik te maak vir verkose lede op
       parlementêre en provinsiale vlak  om  na  ander  partye  te  kan
       oorloop; en


   (d)  die Grondwet  in  hierdie  geval  gewysig  sal  word  ten  einde
       politieke winste in KwaZulu-Natal en die  Wes-Kaap  moontlik  te
       maak om die vierparty-alliansie, naamlik die ANC, Nuwe NP,  SAKP
       en Cosatu, ter wille te wees; en

(2) ‘n beroep op die Regering doen om die wense van die kiesers te respekteer en nie voort te gaan met die wetgewing wat oorloop op parlementêre en provinsiale vlak moontlik sal maak nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ACDP at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  an Afrikaans radio station is currently making a survey  in  its
       morning actuality programme, Monitor, amongst its  listeners  to
       determine whether politicians  have  higher  moral  values  than
       prostitutes;


   (b)  this is a direct reaction to the  politically  immoral  crossing
       over of members which makes  voters  feel  that  their  election
       mandate is being  ignored  and  their  votes  stolen,  and  that
       reflects on all members of this House;


   (c)  the Government plans to proceed with introducing legislation  in
       Parliament  to  make  it  possible  for   elected   members   at
       parliamentary and  provincial  level  to  cross  over  to  other
       parties; and


   (d)  the  Constitution  will  be  amended  in  this  case  to  ensure
       political gains in KwaZulu-Natal and the Western  Cape  for  the
       four-party alliance, namely, the ANC, NNP, SACP and Cosatu; and

(2) appeals to the Government to respect the wishes of the voters and not proceed with the legislation enabling the crossing over at parliamentary and provincial level.

Mrs L MALONEY: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the focus theme of the month of October is ``the rights  of  the
       child'';


   (b)  the ANC-led Government will increase  the  child  support  grant
       from R130,00 tot R140,00 and the fostercare grant  from  R450,00
       to R460,00; and


   (c)  the Government is considering phasing in  an  extension  of  the
       child support grant to 14 years of age;

(2) believes that this reflects the commitment of the Government to fight poverty and to uphold the rights of the child; and

(3) commends the Government for embarking on this bold step as this will help to alleviate the poverty experienced by children.

[Applause.]

Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay that the heart unit at Groote Schuur Hospital is in crisis, stemming directly from poor funding and mismanagement by the provincial government headed by Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk;

(2) further notes that while Mr Van Schalkwyk and the ANC/New NP alliance are playing politics, the job of administering the Western Cape is being neglected at the expense of people’s lives; and

(3) resolves to suggest to Mr Van Schalkwyk that he should pay more attention to the important job for which he is paid by the taxpayers.

[Applause.] Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that National Marine Week, with the theme ``using the resources of our oceans and coasts in a sustainable way’’, began on Monday, 14 October 2002;

(2) further notes that there are educational programmes and other events being held around the country during the week;

(3) realises that on Friday, 18 October 2002, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism will announce which beaches will receive Blue Flag status, which confirms that they have attained international standards on safety, environmental and tourist friendliness, cleanliness and visible security; and

(4) hopes that National Marine Week will educate people and raise their awareness of the ocean and its resources and how to use them in a sustainable way.

Ms O R KASIENYANE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Government announced food relief measures for  the  poor  to
       help improve food security transparency in the food supply chain
       and price stability; and


   (b)  the Government has reached an agreement with  Premier  Foods  to
       provide a nonbranded 12,5 kg maize meal bag  to  be  sold  at  a
       subsidised price of R25,00 per bag;

(2) believes that this reflects the commitment of the Government to fight poverty in the wake of a spiralling increase in food prices recently; and

(3) welcomes the announcements made by the ANC-led Government to improve food security.

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes the DP/DA’s pathetic cries of stealing the vote'', and betraying the voters’’, and their accusation of ``immoral councillors’’, which serve only to highlight their own hypocrisy;

(2) acknowledges that their sudden change of mind is not principled, but based on the fact that they are on the receiving end;

(3) also notes that -

   (a)  not only did the DP vote in favour of the defection legislation,
       but their Chief Whip, Douglas Gibson,  even  introduced  private
       member's legislation to provide for defections; and


   (b)  the DP themselves have a long track record of gleeful acceptance
       of defectors from other parties into their own ranks,  in  fact,
       the DP consists almost of defectors only, if one looks at  their
       MPs sitting over there; and

(4) rejects with utter disgust the hon Leon’s name-calling, categorising councillors as being like ``computer viruses and cancers that you have to get rid of’’, while the one or two councillors who have fallen for their misrepresentations are being welcomed as heroes.

What double standards! Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) acknowledges that it is the duty of the Government not only to directly improve the lives of South Africans through its various programmes and departments, but also through the effective use of resources to avoid wastage;

(2) notes that we continue to live in a country where millions of poor people are unemployed, where millions are illiterate, and where millions go to bed hungry every night;

(3) expresses its disgust at and condemnation of the R986 000 a month in rental fees that the Department of Public Works is currently wasting by paying for 24 empty buildings; and

(4) calls upon the Minister of Public Works immediately to prove Government’s commitment to clean and effective governance, by addressing this utterly unacceptable situation.

Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House -

(1) notes the destructive court ruling that current legislation in the Child Care Act and the Guardianship Act infringes on the dignity and equality of individuals and does not give paramountcy to the best interests of children, which perverts the definition of family;

(2) acknowledges that the global agenda to deconstruct marriage and family has been given licence in South Africa, through the Constitution, legislation like the Equality Act and proposals by the SA Law Commission which further target marriage and family and are strenuously backed by both the ANC and the DA;

(3) recognises this court ruling as a tragic blow to South African society and reiterates the ACDP stand for family values and the strengthening of the family unit, which is the basic building block of strong, healthy communities and a strong, healthy nation;

(4) notes that according to statistics, children who grow up in single- sex parented homes are clearly disadvantaged and the consequences are often tragic;

(5) calls on the Government, legislators and the judiciary to protect the time-honoured and noble institutions of marriage, family, motherhood, fatherhood and childhood which are under attack; and

(6) calls on South Africans to reject this …

[Time expired.]

 BAFANA BAFANA VICTORY OVER BURUNDI IN THE AFRICAN NATIONS CUP 2004
                              QUALIFIER

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes the 2-0 victory of Bafana Bafana over Burundi in Group 11 of the African Nations Cup 2004 qualifiers on Sunday;

(2) recognises that captain André Arendse and the boys put up a solid performance;

(3) acknowledges this victory has taken Bafana Bafana closer to qualifying for the prestigious African soccer showpiece; and

(4) congratulates coach Shakes Mashaba and his team for their emphatic win over physically intimidating opponents on that day.

Agreed to.

       GOOD LUCK TO MATRIC PUPILS IN THEIR FINAL EXAMINATIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

That the House -

(1) believes that a good school education is the foundation on which our youth can build a successful future; and

(2) wishes all the matric pupils good luck in their final examinations; and

(3) hopes that these examinations progress without incident.

Agreed to.

                         BOMB BLAST IN BALI

                          (Daft Resolution)

Mnr C H F GREYLING: Mev die Speaker, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met skok en afgryse kennis neem van die bomontploffing in Bali waarin ongeveer 300 mense beseer is en wat reeds die lewens van ongeveer 182 mense geëis het;

(2) verder kennis neem dat 19 Suid-Afrikaners wat na bewering ten tyde van die bomontploffing in Bali was, teen Maandagmiddag as vermis aangegee is;

(3) hierdie lafhartige, koelbloedige terreuraanval op onskuldige mense ten sterkste veroordeel;

(4) glo dat die nodige stappe gedoen sal word om die skuldiges aan die pen te laat ry, maar ook dat die internasionale gemeenskap sal saamstaan in die stryd om terrorisme uit te roei; en

(5) sy innige meegevoel en simpatie betoon aan die naasbestaandes van diegene wat in die bomontploffing gesterf het. (Translation of Afrikaans motion follows.)

[Mr C H F GREYLING: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:]

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and horror the bomb blast in Bali in which about 300 people were injured and which has already claimed the lives of about 182 people; (2) further notes that 19 South Africans who were allegedly in Bali at the time of the bomb blast, were posted as missing by Monday afternoon;

(3) condemns this cowardly, cold-blooded terror attack on innocent people in the strongest terms;

(4) believes that the necessary steps will be taken to bring the perpetrators to book, but also that the international community will act in concert in the struggle to eradicate terrorism; and

(5) expresses its sympathy and condolences to the relatives of those who died in the blast.]

             REMEDYING A NATIONWIDE STATE OF MORAL DECAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice: That the House regards the persistent scourge of child rape as the most hideous, brutal and despicable sign of a nation-wide state of moral decay that must be remedied through the participation of all South Africans of goodwill, and therefore -

(1) urges all citizens, churches, grassroots organisations, civic organisations and other institutions of civil society to join hands in a campaign of solidarity and moral regeneration similar to the one which brought together all South Africans of goodwill in the struggle against apartheid; and

(2) appeals to the leaders of all democratic parties, irrespective of political divisions, to join forces and become visible in promoting this struggle, highlighting their shared commitment rather than their differences.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, on 24 June this year, this National Assembly adopted the report of the task group on the sexual abuse of children. That report highlighted the dimensions, extent and features of the hideous phenomenon of child rape and abuse, and it proposed, in fact, a very comprehensive course of action for the Government to follow.

The report of the task group outlined details of responsibility of each relevant line function and created the parameters for Government’s response to this scourge. The report also dwelt upon the investigation of the causes of child rape and identified its connection with poverty and underdevelopment. The publication of that report was the point of arrival of a long process of growing awareness and mobilisation within Government and the various building blocks of our society.

As a consequence of the implementation of that report, there is now an almost horizontal function which cuts across the line-function responsibilities of many of our departments. Moreover, many political parties have developed their own programmes to protect our children and to mobilise important institutions of civil society such as churches and community organisations in a comprehensive effort to eradicate this curse.

However, child rape has not stopped. A few weeks ago, press reports shocked the country and a new wave of moral indignation swept our communities as we were confronted with the graphic picture of a six-year-old girl with her intestines hanging out of her vagina after she had been brutally raped. I am a man who has seen many horrors and more brutality than most. I bear the weight of the horrors that I have witnessed through decades of atrocious conflicts which have tainted our country’s soil with blood. Yet, I could not but be moved to tears and seized with unparalleled horror when confronted with such blind and inane brutality. The whole of our country had a similar reaction.

It is important that this National Assembly again expresses its horror at the phenomenon of child rape and abuse because we cannot accept that this may ever become a feature of a society which may ever become used to them. I think that even if we need to hold debates of this nature over and over again, we shall relinquish no opportunity to express our horror and voice, in this House, how our people on the ground feel about it.

However, on this occasion it becomes clear that we must go beyond ritual condemnations, no matter how strongly and sincerely we feel about them. From this House, we need to mobilise the logistical, moral and spiritual forces necessary to redress this phenomenon and eradicate it from our society. Condemnation and remedial action must go hand in hand. We should not risk a new tragedy of the type which took place when our communities were seized with the brutality unleashed by the internecine conflict among our people in the 80s and 90s which cost so many lives. We now have an entire generation of our people who grew up in many communities and became used to brutality, violence and savage practices of torture such as necklacing, for instance. For them, that brutality became part of the only reality they knew and set the basis of what was acceptable.

From this venue, we must send a clear and loud message that child rape and abuse are not acceptable in any way, shape or form and that even though the media may report several instances of such hideous occurrences, by no stretch of the imagination should any one of us grow to believe that they are part and parcel of the life we live or as a fact of life.

The findings of the report of the task team indicate that the causes of this hideous phenomenon run deep and include conditions of social and economic underdevelopment, and breakdown in the social and moral fibre of our communities. For this reason remedial action cannot come exclusively from what Government can do, but must become an effort which runs horizontally throughout all the building blocks of our society, including churches, workplaces, community organisations and families.

Child rape and abuse are the hideous tip of a much larger iceberg. We cannot deal with this tip unless we have the courage, strength and determination to expose the whole of the iceberg and deal with it with single-minded resolve. We need to change long-entrenched attitudes and move our people away from brutality and forward into a new moral matrix which is capable of holding together our communities as we struggle to uplift them from a social and economic viewpoint.

We must change mind-sets and attitudes as we promote physical infrastructure and economic development. If the latter does not come fast enough, we must not hold back on developing the former. It may be that moral upliftment and spiritual renewal must come first. The base of the iceberg of every child rape and abuse lies in the ocean of poverty, abject social economic conditions, underdevelopment, human degradation and ignorance for lack of education, knowledge and exposure.

Below its floating line, this iceberg consists of a deep-seated lack of respect for women and children mixed with despair. As a Government, we have entered into a number of international conventions which protect women and children, and we have adopted extensive legislation to that end. However, unless we change individual, collective and community attitudes towards women and children, the successful implementation of these international and domestic provisions of law will remain elusive. We need to change attitudes in communities, workplaces and families, and with the assistance of all building blocks of society, promote respect for women and children.

We need a national campaign which will promote mental health, greater individual respect and greater awareness of the facts of human sexuality and dignity. All civilisations have marked their path of individual and collective growth through awareness of and respect for the importance of life and dignity of a single individual, so that no one should be perceived and treated as a lesser being than anyone else. We must look at all the components of the large submerged iceberg and acknowledge that amongst the causes of human degradation, which we are not sufficiently addressing, is the abuse of substances - not only illegal substances, but also alcohol. I offer my apologies to the consumers of this respectable drug. We need to promote programmes to teach physical and mental health to our people and the importance of proper nutrition as part of one’s own basic dignity.

We must also begin to promote a nationwide campaign to address the degrading effects of alcoholism on our people, which is one of the great plagues of our nation, and thus far we have chosen not to pay it sufficient attention. We must also fight in all ways possible the spread of this idiotic myth that raping a virgin may in any way assist in coping with HIV/Aids or even cure it. For this reason, we need to treat this problem with the collective approach which I can only liken to the one which brought us together when we fought against apartheid.

Our country has a beautiful history of people coming together across the then existing social, economic and cultural divides to join hands together to bring about the change from apartheid to democracy. Rich and poor, black and white, worked together to build the new democratic country. It is very painful to me that I now do not see the same spirit of goodwill in action. It is painful for me to see that many segments of our society which have the capacity to bring about a positive difference instead insulate themselves from the hideous phenomena of social, economic and human degradation such as child rape and abuse merely because they are not affected by them.

We need to recreate the awareness that we are a united and continuous society and that whatever happens in it must and will affect all of us. We need to bring about the spirit of a revolution of goodwill in which we all become responsible for making that difference. For that reason, I hope that through the debate today we can, in fact, highlight our shared commitment to a revolution of goodwill, set aside political divisions and show that we, as South Africans, are equally committed to bringing about a society which no longer suffers from the types of human degradation and social abjection which have produced child rape and abuse. [Applause.]

Mr S L DITHEBE: Madam Speaker, hon members, Nelson Mandela and Graca Machel warned us, and I quote:

We cannot waste our precious children, not another one, not another day. It is long past the time for us to act on their behalf.

It is for this reason that I believe that the rape of a child is so horrific that it cannot but leave each one of us outraged and deeply saddened. It would take us much longer than the time allocated to this debate to read the list of names of children who over the last year have survived sexual violence. This list is growing as we speak. There is no one among us who does not agree that we have to view 20 000 reported cases of sexual violence against children in our country as a crisis. But I do not think that the dramatisation of these crimes should make us grasp at dramatic but unsustainable responses or solutions.

I believe that we must reflect soberly on two core questions with regard to child rape. The first is: How do we care for and respond to survivors of child rape? The second and, I believe, the more difficult question is: How do we stop these brutal rapes?

When the parliamentary task group on the sexual abuse of children tabled its report in this House on June 12, we believed that we were taking the first steps towards coming to grips with this horror. The report contains some very important recommendations, which I believe should form the background against which we debate today.

We must now proceed with the tabling of comprehensive legislation for children. The legislation must lay the basis on which all our efforts for the protection of children and the realisation of children’s rights must be focused. The legislative mechanisms must reflect our understanding of the distinct nature of child sexual abuse, while at the same time recognising that children’s needs are multidimensional, and that addressing their needs requires a multidisciplinary and integrated approach.

If we do not have a common national understanding of child rape and its impact on the life of the child, and we therefore do not have a common understanding of how to respond to the child’s needs, the legislation might not offer the protection it should. I believe that our legislation for children must be underpinned by a national protocol on child abuse. This protocol must contain very clear guidelines about what parents or caregivers can and should do as soon as they discover that a child has been raped. Such a protocol must be available at the level of every community, every public library, every school, every primary health clinic, every church, and every community-based organisation.

In addition, I believe that we should make resources available to ensure that the protocol is translated in each of the 11 official languages, and that it is workshopped, understood and accepted in communities across the country. Our people must know whether to report to the police or to a social worker, should a social worker be available, or to a community health worker. They should also know what to expect from this person to whom they have reported the rape.

The protocol must of course also address those steps that must be followed by personnel in those protective and support services with which the raped child comes into contact. It must say clearly to the police official or social worker to whom the abuse is reported, how to care for and support the child. It must say clearly what the responsibilities of the different role-players in the protective network should be.

I would like to congratulate the hon the Minister of Social Development on the steps he has already taken to get such a protocol off the ground. However, it cannot be the responsibility of this department alone. It must be the product of real collaboration and shared responsibility between the Departments of Safety and Security, Justice, Health, and Education, and it must reflect input from broader society. I therefore want to call on civil society organisations to act on this call to participate in the development of the protocol, and to monitor its implementation vigilantly.

But if we develop a protocol that speaks about particular support structures for child survivors of rape, and for their families, we must also make a concerted effort to ensure that those support structures function effectively and efficiently. We have to address the lack of resources in the child protection units. We have to understand that personnel in these units work under tremendous strain, and that they need constant debriefing and counselling support. We must recognise the dedication of these police officers, and acknowledge the severe trauma they are faced with every day. I would therefore like to congratulate the extraordinary efforts of the officers from the Durban North Child Protection Unit, who arrested 21 persons in connection with child rape charges at the end of August.

In addition, we must make sure that those social workers, police officers, health practitioners and justice officials designated to working with child survivors of sexual violence are appropriately trained, and that they have a shared responsibility for the best interests of the child under such circumstances. We must make sure that the child who has already been severely traumatised by the sexual violence, is not exposed to secondary abuse at the hands of ill-trained, ill-equipped or overworked officials.

Again I would like to commend the work that has already begun in relation to the justice system, where training initiatives have been launched with the support of the department. Perhaps we need to go further and challenge this department, as well as the Department of Health, to set particular targets for the training of personnel as designated and specialised to deal with and provide services and support to rape survivors. We have to make an end to the impression people have that the child protection services are failing our children, and so courts across the country have to be seen to be making headway with the backlog in cases.

Backlogs often cause a family whose child has been raped to go through repeated postponements of up to a year before the case is concluded, forcing them every time to relive the horror of what has happened to the child. At the same time we must restore the trust people have in our court system by ensuring that sentences handed down to convicted sex offenders are consistent, and that sentences reflect the seriousness with which we view the crime of child rape. It was right and just that the man who so brutally raped baby Tshepang in October last year received a life sentence.

I believe that by taking some of these smaller steps, and making sure that our resources are appropriately prioritised, we can make a real difference in the lives of child rape survivors. But we must caution against once-off programmes that are not sustainable. If we are saying that child rape has been with us for a long time, then we must realise that quick-fix solutions will not take us anywhere.

We must therefore perhaps consider calling together a task team, at departmental level, of representatives of all the different Government departments that have responsibilities towards children, to act as a consultative and co-ordinating structure.

Social services in South Africa are often said to be seriously underfunded. Perhaps this is because we have not managed to separate the functions of social security administration from those of a more substantial social development programme. In fact, in many functioning democracies there is a clear distinction between the two areas, which allows for social services and development work each to be viewed in its own right. I would like to propose today that we table this matter for serious debate.

Furthermore, for our efforts to be sustainable, we must support those organisations that provide essential services to survivors of rape and their families. Civil society organisations must be an integral part of the provision of social development services, yet the limited funding Government makes available to them suggests to many of the professionals working in the field that we are not serious about partnering with them.

Finally, we as members of the Parliament must take up the challenge with different Government departments. The parliamentary committees that were part of the task group have committed themselves to reporting back to this House before the end of June 2003 on progress made with regard to the recommendations in the task group’s report. Let us honour that commitment.

That brings me to what I earlier called the more difficult question: How do we stop this scourge? Again, I believe that it is only through sustained and co-ordinated efforts that we can overcome this crisis.

I therefore want to plead with the Office of the Presidency to lead public campaigns and awareness programmes aimed at changing the culture of violence that we are experiencing, and aimed at challenging the gender bias of a significant proportion of that violence. To this end, we welcome the coming launch of the Volunteer Child Network, a web access database developed by the CSIR Crime Prevention Centre in partnership with the President’s Office for the Rights of the Child, the Department of Social Development, the SAPS and other organisations, to facilitate assessment of skills for volunteers in the prevention of child abuse and access to organisations which recruit, train or manage such volunteers.

We must speak to our men and our boys; we must do it in the schools, at bus stands, on trains, in the churches, mosques and temples, in our constituencies and in each and every public space. We must recognise that we will have to keep on speaking for as long as it takes. We have been able to mobilise our people towards a peaceful, democratic transition. We now need to mobilise our people towards an end to child rape.

The protection that the UN Charter on the Rights of the Child affords our children against sexual exploitation and sexual abuse, in terms of article 34, must not become a mere dream, but an everyday experience for them. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, sexual abuse of children in South Africa has increased at a horrifying rate in recent months. While sexual abuse is not a new phenomenon, recent trends in the violent nature of the crimes are a serious cause for concern.

South Africa has unfortunately acquired the label of being the rape capital of the world, with one child being raped every 24 minutes. Only the horrific cases make it to the press, but there are many more that do not, because child abuse is an under-reported crime.

From January to September 2001, of the reported 15 500 rapes 6 000 were on children between the ages of nought and 11 years, and the conviction rate was a mere 8%. While we can all bicker about the statistics and score political points, the reality is that every rape is one rape too many.

HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mrs S V KALYAN: A possible reason for, or the cause of, the increase in sexual assault on children may be the breakdown or decline of the traditional extended family system.

South Africa subscribes to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the South African Constitution also provides special protections for the child. It provides for children to be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse and degradation. Yet, there is still no national strategy in place to combat and prevent child sexual abuse, and the present response is quite fragmented.

The task team on child abuse found, during its deliberations, that there are serious challenges in the way that Government supports services and programmes aimed at preventing sexual abuse of children.

But while we wait for Government to get its act together, let us also acknowledge that translating the Constitution into reality is not the responsibility of Government alone. It is a collective responsibility - that of every member, and that of every man, woman and child out there.

There are many challenges facing us as a nation to curb child rape. Most often abuse is perpetrated by family members and someone whom the child trusts. There is overwhelming denial to face the perpetrators because usually the family is financially dependent on the perpetrator.

Victims of sexual assault are at a much higher risk of being infected with HIV through assault. So, yet another challenge is the reluctance of families to test the child for HIV. Furthermore, we have to lobby collectively for post-exposure prophylaxis for rape victims, and destroy the myth that having sex with a virgin girl child will cure HIV/Aids.

Now while there is no magic formula, by thinking, planning and working together, we can achieve the collective goal of eradicating child abuse. Each community should work together to start up a community watch. This watch can identify the strengths and resources in the community, and the wisdom of the elders and mobilise them to protect children, in particular to protect the girl child.

Every MP here has a constituency office. In view of the fact that child protection units are few and constrained by a lack of manpower and other resources, I ask every MP to make their offices available as a starting point to seek the support and involvement of all partners in this prevention strategy. The DA calls on civil society organisations such as Rotary to support these initiatives, and it is my belief that efforts aimed at preventing child abuse and neglect should incorporate the axiom, ``injobo enhle ithunelwa ebandla.’’ [Two heads are better than one.]

The scars of an abused child will never go away. The harm is both physical and psychological and it has a serious impact on the moral fibre of our society. Let us work collectively as a nation to eradicate this evil and senseless phenomenon and regain our morals as a society that cares. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Speaker, this must be one of the saddest debates I have participated in during my 15 years in Parliament. It is good that we do so, but the fact that we as parliamentarians felt it necessary to debate this shocking, sickening topic is in itself a black mark against our name as a nation.

The horrific facts giving rise to this debate should make each one of us in this Chamber feel shame that any South African could perpetrate such a barbaric act, let alone in such numbers. The men who commit these crimes are animals, beasts, and no condemnation is enough. That having been said, I hope sincerely that some good will come out of this debate. On the legal side there should be more severe punishment for the perpetrators. The New NP advocates the death penalty for this crime as a sentencing option. [Interjection.] Also, more resources should be allocated to the child protection units of the SAPS which do a magnificent job under difficult circumstances.

The parliamentary task group on the sexual abuse of children, whose report was tabled earlier this year, has established that these units are severely under-resourced. We also need more resources for the desk of the Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions in charge of crimes against women and children, in order to ensure effective prosecution of these sexual offences. We need more specialist sexual offences courts. They achieve a much better rate of conviction, and more speedily.

At present these exist at only 10 centres, whereas 20 were promised by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development by the end of this year. We fear that the Department of Justice is falling behind with this programme and the New NP urges the Minister and the Government to ensure that it is kept on track.

Likewise, legislation that could have an impact on the judicial process around these appalling crimes has been delayed. These Bills include the Child Justice Bill, the new Sexual Offences Bill and the Bill relating to compulsory HIV testing for sexual offenders. All these Bills appear to be delayed until next year while the country cries out for them to be speeded up. The New NP calls on the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development to act accordingly.

Legal process addresses the symptoms, the results of these terrible acts; but we need to address the causes and to take preventive action. The resolution of the Minister of Home Affairs calls for a campaign of solidarity and moral regeneration, and the New NP supports that whole heartedly. However, to be successful we must also analyse the situation on the ground in order to ensure that the steps we take are successful.

South Africa is one of the most violent countries in the world, as other speakers have said. The American Human Rights Watch said in 1995 that it was clear that South African women were living in one of the most violent countries in the world. And on a daily basis South African girls of every race and every economic class encounter sexual violence and harassment which impedes their right to education.

According to the statistical picture, women and children bear the brunt of the violence in our country. In the first place we have the shameful distinction of having the highest number of rapes per capita in the world. Last year 37 000 women laid charges of rape with the SAPS, and as we know, that is the tip of the iceberg.

The South African Human Rights Commission estimates that almost one third of South Africa’s children has been subjected to sexual abuse before the age of 18. The Child Protection Unit deals with 20 to 30 cases of child rape a week.

The media reported recently that 5 000 newborn babies were discarded every year. What sort of society are we? In the first place, we are a society in which, despite what our Constitution says, women are very often not regarded as fully equal with men. Women’s status is generally low. This was given as the main reason for the high incidence of violence against women in this country in a 1998 United Nations research paper.

In sum, it is axiomatic and an accepted standard internationally that in societies where the dignity of women is respected and women’s status is high, children are safer from abuse. The fate of children often follows the fate of their mothers and grandmothers. It is undeniable that the two go hand in hand. Decreasing violence against women and enhancing their status would pay handsome dividends and this should be the focus of any regeneration campaign.

A programme of moral regeneration is an excellent starting point, but we need the full backing of Government resources, in terms of the Government’s commitment under the Constitution, to promote rights of equality in order to eliminate this scourge of child abuse.

Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and hon members, the horror and disgrace of child rape in this country cannot be described in language. We received oral submissions from children who were the victims of this despicable crime. What they told us was so horrifying and the courage they displayed in dealing with their ordeal was so extraordinary that all of us were left speechless, and many of us in tears.

How many of these young victims are still out there, unknown to us and without any support structure? We simply do not know. The nature of the crime means that most victims suffer in silence. Often, because the perpetrators tend to be family members or friends, it is a crime that is committed repeatedly, over a long period of time. We cannot ever say that it is not within our power to eradicate this crime, because that would be tantamount to condemning thousands of children to the most degrading, inhuman suffering imaginable.

So, what can we do? I would like to make three proposals, although there is certainly much more that can be done. The UDM believes that by immediately implementing the following three proposals, we will be able to see real and sustainable improvements.

Firstly, education and awareness around this issue must be intensified. It is fine and well for this House to discuss this matter and lament the incidence of child rape, but ultimately, it must be something that each and every South African is aware of. Child rape must simply cease to be the silent and unspoken evil that walks blatantly in our neighbourhoods and communities.

Education must be targeted. Our children, boys and girls, must be taught that they have the right to speak out. What is more, they must be encouraged to speak out. We must teach them that their bodies belong to them and them alone. We must teach them that the insipid arguments of sexual molesters that their behaviour is a show of affection or love, is a lie.

We must educate them in a fashion that reaffirms their dignity and does not leave them with the thought that, somehow, they are guilty or that they are dirty. Too often, this still happens when rape survivors do speak out.

Education and awareness campaigns must also target boys and men, to teach them what their restrictions are in terms of sexual behaviour. We must say this over and over: Nobody is entitled to sex. One cannot, no matter what one’s position in a family or community, demand sex.

Secondly, the relationship between the criminal justice system and the community must be improved. This means that South Africans must learn to stop turning a blind eye to danger signals that they see in their own homes and those of their neighbours. Similarly, we need a police force that refuses to bend its knee before this problem because it appears overwhelming. We need a national Police Commissioner that does not blithely say that certain crimes cannot be policed. Nonsense! We must not give a quarter before this challenge. It is up to communities and the police, in co-operation, to prove that these crimes will not be tolerated. Failure to do so will turn us into a nation of perpetrators and victims. We cannot countenance this. As a nation, we are greater than this. [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, on behalf of all law-abiding citizens, I apologise to all the abused and raped children in our country.

Rape is a violent crime against any individual in society and therefore just punishment must be meted out. All the talkshops, public participation, legislation and the Constitution have not ensured a safe environment to protect our children.

This large institution is a paper tiger. It is toothless and the criminal is very aware of this. Every law-abiding citizen, from our aged to our children, has become an open target for criminals to do with as they please.

The time has come for the war against our children to be fought in the open. Legislative preparedness is not enough and we cannot argue lack of resources. What we lack is the political will to tackle the issues. The war against our children is a national crisis with dire consequences, simply because there is a huge surge in the number of rapes, while criminal convictions and appropriate sentences are just too low. The ultimate price that a rapist must pay is the wrath of Government through the implementation of the death penalty. This is the only form of retribution and deterrent for this crime.

The ACDP recommends the immediate reinstatement of the death penalty, a more effective and efficient criminal justice system for speedily meting out sentences, appropriate and harsh sentencing for various degrees of crimes against our children, no bail for repeat offenders, stricter regulations for parole and not allowing amnesty for all and sundry.

There is the danger that if Government is not going to fulfil its God-given role to protect its citizens, by wielding the sword of justice against rape perpetrators, then it clearly leaves the communities to take the law into their own hands. This would take South Africa on a downward spiral of anarchy, and it would be very difficult to bring the rule of law back into our society.

Nk P N MNANDI: Somlomo, oNgqongqoshe abahloniphekile, oSekela boNgqongqoshe, bahlonishwa, maqabane, izihlobo, abafundi abakhona nothisha, mangivule inkulumo yami ngokuthi ngikhumbuze le Ndlu ukuthi lolu daba oluyichilo nehlazo olwenziwa yiyo yonke le migodoyi enukubeza abantwana bethu seludingidwe kabanzi kule Ndlu kulo nyaka.

Sikhuluma nje kumanje kunenkolelo yokuthi ukunukubezwa kwabantwana kubangwa ukuthi abantu bayahlupheka futhi balambile. Yehheni, webantu! Insumansumane- ke le. Silapha nje kule Ndlu namhlanje iningi lethu sikhule sihlupheka ngendlela emangalisayo, sidla izinkobe, sihlala emabhokisini kamentshisi ezindlu, siminyene futhi silala ndawonye. Ukuhlupheka akuzange kusenze izilwane. [Ihlombe.]

Silapha namhlanje kule Ndlu ehloniphekile ngoba sasihlupheka. Ukuhlupheka nendlala akukaze nje kwehlele esinyeni. Ngizoxolisa bakwethu, ngenxa yokuthi lolu daba luvusa izinseka ngizohluba udlubu ekhasini.

Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe uMaduna `awube khona umthetho othi bonke laba abadlwengula abantwana izithombe zabo nemininingwane yabo makulenge ezigxotsheni nasezikhungweni zomphakathi, babonwe yizwe lonke’. [Ihlombe.]

KuNgqongqoshe wezikadalawane ngithi, `malube khona uphiko emnyangweni wakhe oluzobhekana ngqo nokuqedwa nya kwezithombe ezibonisa izingane zigilwa imikhuba futhi lubhekane nokudayiswa kwabantwana bedayiselwa ezocansi. Nakho belu ukuqwayiza kwabantwana kufanele kuqedwe nya. Kufanele iqale ukusebenza eThekwini nakithi le ePhoyinti, eNtshonankoloni naseGoli le mithetho. Masibonge kuMafahleni, impela uyawuhola umkhankaso kaHulumeni wokwakhiwa kabusha kwezimilo.

Kodwa nansi inkinga esibhekene nayo la eMzansi, okuningi esikubona kumabonakude wethu imihla namalanga isinene, udlame nokudlwengula. Umabonakude wethu awusakhe lesi sizwe, awungasikhubazi. Likhona idlanzana losonhlalakahle eliseyinkinga bakwethu. Uma kufika umntwana odlwenguliwe kubo, kujike kube yiwona aba nezinkulumo ezihlukumeza le ngane, igcine ingasafuni ukuqhubeka necala isisaba lo muntu okufanele ngabe uyayisiza. Mabaphume baphele kulo mnyango. Kungcono beyosebenza emakhishini ngoba uma bebulale isitsha umuntu uyakwazi ukusithenga esinye, ingane ayithengwa.

Kule Ndlu miningi imithetho eshayiwe mayelana nokuvikelwa kwabantwana. UKhongolose uyakholelwa kakhulu kumalungelo abantwana. Nakuba kunjalo kusekhona ukucekelwa phansi kwekusasa lezingane zethu. Kuyasika bakwethu. Izingane zimsulwa, azinacala futhi azinawo namandla okuzilwela. Ngalezi zizathu njengeNdlu ehlonipheke kangaka kufuneka siphumele eshashalazini. Kufanele sime manje ukukhuluma, senze. Make kuphume thina la sonke siyohola umphakathi wonkana kukhukhulela ngoqo womkhankaso wokuqeda nya lo mhlola owehlela izingane zethu.

Ngonyaka ka-1994 ngesikhathi kuthatha uHulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose kuleli Phalamende, leli Phalamende laba iPhalamende labantu. ISekela likaSomlomo lihlala lisho ukuthi iPhalamende kufale liye kubantu. Ngezingane zethu, masiye kubantu siphelele, hhayi ngamaqembu makube ngumfela ndawonye bakwethu. Mayihlome ihlasele! Yonke le migodoyi izobhosha imbazo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Ms P N MNANDI: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members, comrades, relatives, pupils and teachers that are amongst us, I would like to open my speech by reminding this House that this disgraceful deed, which is being done by these dogs who abuse our children, has been seriously discussed in this House this year.

There is a belief that child abuse is as a result of hunger and poverty. Hey, this is absurd! Most of us in this House grew up in poverty situations, eating boiled maize, living in matchbox houses, crammed into and sleeping in one room. Nonetheless, poverty never made us animals. [Applause.]

We are here in this House today because we were suffering. Poverty and hunger have nothing to do with sexuality. I would like to apologise for my use of language. Due to the fact that this topic arouses afterpains, I would like to get into details.

To the Minister for Social Justice and Constitutional Development, Mr P M Maduna, I am saying this: Let there be a law which says that all those people who rape children should have their photographs in public places so that the whole world sees them.'' [Applause.] To the Minister of Correctional Services, I am saying this:Let there be a section in his department that will specifically look into the abolition of child pornography and the trading of children for prostitution.’’ Child prostitution should also be stopped completely. These laws should be implemented in Durban, the Western Cape and Johannesburg. Let us thank the Deputy President, Mafahleni, for leading Government’s moral regeneration programme.

In South Africa we are faced with the problem that most of the programmes that we see on TV on a daily basis include sex, violence and rape. Television should build this nation, and it should not destroy it. There are still a few problematic social workers, who in turn use abusive language when a raped child is brought to them for assistance. Children end up refusing to continue with the trial because they are now afraid of this person who is supposed to be helping. These types of social workers should leave this department and look for jobs as domestic workers because there when a person breaks a plate, it could be replaced, but a child cannot be bought.

There have been many laws enacted in this House. The ANC believes in the rights of children. Even though the ANC believes in these rights, there are still those who want to destroy the future of our children. This is distressing. Children are innocent, and they cannot defend themselves. Therefore, as this House, we need to act and stop talking. Let us all from this House lead a march, for the whole nation, against child abuse.

When the ANC took over, this Parliament became a parliament for the people. The Deputy Speaker always says that Parliament should go to the people. For the sake of our children, let us go to the people in unity, not as different political parties. Let us work together. Stand up and fight! All these abusers will rue the day that they were born. [Applause.]]

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, on my way to this debate I passed a beautiful two-year-old girl, who does not know me, but innocently smiled at me and greeted me. I asked myself: How could anyone in his right mind rape a child?

As ‘n mens een so ‘n geval in ‘n samelewing het, kan ‘n mens dit seker probeer regverdig deur te sê dat daar in elke samelewing wel mal mense is. As daar egter verskillende gevalle is, soos in Suid-Afrika, en dit deurlopend voorkom, is dit ‘n baie ernstige situasie. As die verkragting van kinders en babas voortgaan, ongeag byvoorbeeld die lewenslange straf wat die verkragter van Baba Tsepang gekry het, dan is ek geskok oor hierdie samelewing waarin ons leef.

‘n Amerikaanse politikus het onlangs die Amerikaanse samelewing gekritiseer en het die volgende gesê: ``Dit is onmoontlik om die beskawing te handhaaf met twaalfjariges wat kinders kry; met vyftienjariges wat mekaar doodmaak; met sestienjariges wat weens Vigs sterf en met agtienjariges wat diplomas verwerf wat hulle nie eens kan lees nie’’. Dit is verdoemende getuienis oor die Amerikaanse samelewing, maar ons is nie beter af met kinderverkragting soos dit tans aangaan nie. Is daar oplossings? Ja, daar is en my tyd is ongelukkig beperk. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[If one has one such case in a society, one can perhaps justify it by saying that every society has mad people. If, however, there are various cases such as in South Africa, and it happens continually, it is a very serious situation. If the rape of children and babies continues, despite for the example the lifelong sentence the rapist of Baby Tsepang received, then I am shocked by this society we are living in. An American politician recently criticised the American society and said the following: ``It is impossible to preserve civilisation with twelve-year-olds who are having children; with fifteen-year-olds who are killing one another; with sixteen- year-olds who are dying as a result of Aids and with eighteen-year-olds who are obtaining diplomas which they cannot read.’’ This is damning evidence about the American society, but we are no better off with child rape as is presently the case. Are there solutions? Yes, there are but my time is unfortunately limited.]

Will Durandt is quoted in The death of the West as follows, and I would like to read the quote:

There is no significant example in history before our time, of society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion.

Godsdiens word tans in ons skole, ons media en in gesprekke afgemaak as outyds, as nie ``cool’’ nie en nie deel van die sogenaamde Nuwe Suid-Afrika nie. Ek herhaal die aanhaling:

There is no significant example in history before our time, of society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion.

Ek wil verwys na die Suid-Afrikaanse tydskrif Huisgenoot/You, wat die grootste sirkulasie in Suid-Afrika het. Die tydskrif het onlangs ‘n opname gemaak wat bevind het dat 97% van sy lesers vra vir die herinstelling van die doodstraf vir motorkapers, moordenaars en verkragters. Die Regering durf nie huiwer om drasties op te tree teen hierdie verskriklike misdaad teen kinders nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Currently in our schools, in our media and in our conversations religion is derided as being old-fashioned and not cool or part of the so-called New South Africa. I repeat the quote:

There is no significant example in history before our time, of society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion.

I want to refer to the South African publication Huisgenoot/You, which has the biggest circulation in South Africa. The magazine recently conducted a survey which found that 97% of its readers asked for the reinstatement of the death penalty for hijackers, murderers and rapists. The Government does not dare hesitate in taking drastic steps to stop these terrible crimes against children.]

Mrs M A SEECO: Madam Speaker and hon members, everyone has a duty to protect children from rape and sexual abuse. They need to be removed from the abuse situation. We need to go back to the basics.

Sir Seretse Kgama said a mouthful when he said, and I quote:

A nation without a past is a lost nation, and a people without a past is a people without a soul.

We must promote the notion of ``every child is my child’’. Our children are angry at their powerlessness to prevent sexual abuse and the fact that rapists are often not brought to justice. Children have the right to be protected from sexual violence and abuse. We as women must love them enough to gain their trust so that they can enjoy their childhood.

The UCDP commended the Minister of Social Development for having consented to the establishment of social assistance. The chronic poverty and unemployment in the country should be addressed or the situation will continue. The wellbeing of children will not improve.

Ke rata go ikuela go bomme gore re eme ka dinao, re gopole lebele le le anyisitseng. Ngwana sejo o a tlhakanelwa. Marabe o jewa ke bana. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)

[I would like to appeal to the women to stand up and remember the udder that feeds. A child’s upbringing is the responsibility of all adults.]

Article 16 of the OAU Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the African Child, deals with the protection of children from all forms of torture, and inhumane or degrading treatment. Therefore, people have to learn that HIV/Aids cannot be cured by raping a child. Child rape and abuse is a crime. The cleansing myth needs to be openly challenged by public figures and the maximum sentence should be imposed on anyone who rapes a child. Rapists should rot in jail for ever.

Children need food in order to stay healthy. Therefore the Government as a whole should provide assistance to poor families and should implement strategies to increase employment opportunities. This would reduce the crisis of hunger and malnutrition that is plaguing children, especially those in rural areas. The nutritional support programmes run by the Departments of Social Development and Health, such as the school feeding scheme, should continue and be improved upon. The UCDP supports the motion.

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, once again we have another debate on child rape. We must ask ourselves: What is the point of getting outraged without supporting the rape survivors? We might be feeling good about our outrage, but this is not helping the victims.

We tend to focus on arrest and conviction only. This is not enough. We must look at long-term support for the survivor and the family. We must also provide support for the communities to deal with this problem. We must call on communities to break the silence and report family members who are abusing and raping children. Let us not sacrifice our children for the sake of protecting the so-called family dignity and shame. We must establish special centres that can provide counselling and antiretroviral drugs. Child rape survivors grow up to become parents, and without counselling to rework the trauma they grow up to become abusive parents themselves.

In November 1999 the People Opposed to Women Abuse handed over a petition of 600 000 signatures, calling for better policing, prosecution and antiretroviral drugs. This petition was received by an official of the Department of Justice.

Gloria Legodi, the mother of the three-year-old twins who were sodomised and raped by a 57 year-old family member, will be handing over a petition to the Government on 25 November this year. It would be good if this petition could be received by President Mbeki himself to show that South Africans care. When we refuse to take rape survivors seriously, we become complicit in perpetuating rape.

The PAC supports the draft resolution.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, Deputy President and the Ministers, hon members, so much to say in this important debate, so little time.

At just one hospital, 200 horrific cases of child rape were reported in 2001, most commonly involving the age group between seven and nine years. This was reported at just one institution of the many in the country. These cases involved those who dared to come forward to expose the tragic, barbaric incidents, while many more lie buried under the carpets of close- knit communities.

The MF is shocked and disgusted to have learnt that in recent years South Africa has become one of the countries with the highest rates of rape and sexual assault in the world. What does this say about our social fabric?

Recently the false assumption that having sex with a virgin would cure one of Aids has resulted in many more child rape incidents. This is despicable. The MF is however encouraged by certain differences in society, such as that the South African police, unlike under the previous regime, takes sexual offences even in black areas seriously. This certainly builds confidence within the community.

However, the downside is that only 7% of reported cases of rape resulted in conviction. This exhibits a weak judicial system. What message are we sending out? Are we not then causing society to lose confidence in our system? Are we not saying to rapists: ``You know what, rape - you will get away with it easily’’.

This is not what we want. We want all our people to be safe. We want our children to be safe. We want criminals to know the seriousness and determination of the long arm of the law to eradicate crime.

The MF strongly supports the draft resolution on child rape. It is our duty as Government to protect our young ones and our people. Hon members should remember the slogan: Your child is my child, my child is your child.

Ingane yami, yingane yakho. Ingane yakho, yingane yami. [Ihlombe.] [My child is your child; your child is my child. [Applause.]]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mev die Speaker, kinderverkragting illustreer die laagste vorm van morele menslike bestaan denkbaar. Ons het nou lank genoeg gepraat, debatte gehou en planne aangeneem oor iets so afskuweliks. Dit is nou tyd vir doen. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, child rape illustrates the lowest form of moral human existence imaginable. We have talked for long enough, held enough debates and adopted enough plans regarding something so atrocious. It is now time for doing.]

South Africa has adopted one plan and charter after another: the 1990 Summit for Children’s Goals for Survival, Protection, Development and Participation, the United Convention on the Rights of the Child, the First Call for Children, a national plan of action for children, the Bill of Rights in our Constitution, the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child and a report by a task group of this House on 24 June this year. However, children are still abused and raped in South Africa at an alarming rate.

Die jaar 2000 se statistieke vir die eerste 11 maande toon dat 14 225 kinders verkrag is, teenoor 7 500 in 1994. ‘n Tendens wat ‘n mens tot kommer stem is dat slagoffers van seksuele geweld al hoe jonger word. Voorheen was babas die uitsondering; die afgelope twee jaar raak dit al hoe meer algemeen.

Die AEB wil net twee fokuspunte van hierdie debat belig, en die eerste is die taak van die kerk: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Statistics for the first 11 months of the year 2000 show that 14 225 children had been raped, in contrast with 7 500 in 1994. A trend that gives one cause for concern is that the victims of sexual violence are getting younger and younger. Before babies were the exception; this has become more common in the past two years.

The AEB would like to highlight just two focal points in this debate, and the first is the responsibility of the church.]

The Church is the most important role-player in the upliftment of the moral fibre of a country. The church must never be seen as an opponent, but must be seen as a vital companion in the mammoth task of creating a better country for all its children. It should not be an institution that merely preaches general human values, with no impact, but one that gives direction and security in the lives of its members.

Tweedens wil ek ‘n pleidooi lewer vir die verbetering van ons strafregstelsel wat dringend aangepas moet word vir hierdie soort misdaad. Volgens syfers van 2000 is 65 000 sake by die polisie se kinderbeskermingseenheid aangemeld. Hiervan het 25 083 sake die hof gehaal, waarvan net 7 099 beskuldigdes gevonnis is. Weens die groot getal sake wag kinders soms ‘n jaar of twee jaar voordat hulle getuig. Die tydperk moet verkort word, sodat die gebeure nog vars in die slagoffers se geheues is wanneer hulle moet getuig.

Laastens, die doodstraf moet ingestel word vir kinderverkragters. Hulle moet permanent uit die samelewing verwyder word. Hierdie twee voorbeelde illustreer hoe staat en gemeenskap saam hierdie probleem moet aanpak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Secondly, I would like to make an appeal for the improvement of our criminal justice system which should be adjusted urgently for this kind of crime. According to figures for 2000, 65 000 cases were reported to the child protection unit of the police. Of these, 25 083 cases made it to court, of which only 7 099 of the accused were sentenced. Owing to the large number of cases, children sometimes have to wait a year or two before they testify. This period has to be reduced, so that the incidents are still fresh in the victims’ memories when they have to testify.

Lastly, capital punishment must be introduced for child rapists. They must be removed from society permanently. These two examples illustrate how state and community should tackle this problem together.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, we have debated this matter time and again, and today I want to give another perspective, highlighting what we believe might be the cause of the problem. One of the things that we have inherited from the past, is cultural domination. For many decades black people, in particular, were subjected to cultural oppression, with the result that they were deprived of their capacity to champion values and norms consistent with the fundamental African principle of ubuntu.

It is generally acknowledged that through cultural progress, people are able to regulate their relationship with others, young and old. It is through the development of human values, based on cultural progress, that society creates normal forms of relationship that protect life.

When people are systematically placed in circumstances such as the migrant labour system, forced to stay in houses where there is no privacy, when young children grow up in places of accommodation where at a tender age they watch their parents making love, then subcultures are developed that lead to moral disorientation. The phenomenon of child rape can in some way be linked to moral and psychological disorientation.

Although many politicians and other influential people in South Africa have warned that we should not blame apartheid for every ill in our society, Azapo takes the view that the dehumanisation that was part of both the colonial and apartheid systems, should not be overlooked.

When the 1994 elections were finalised, and the new society started to emerge, we all took for granted that every dehumanised soul would automatically fit in the new circumstances. [Time expired.]

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, I would like all hon members of this House to think back to their last birthday and think about the following questions. What colour underwear were you wearing? At what time and in what sequence did you receive your presents? Who gave you a kiss and who shook your hand to wish you a happy birthday?

How many members can answer all three of these questions correctly? I do not believe any of us can, but we expect children aged two, three and four years to remember what colour underwear they were wearing on the day they were raped, we expect them to remember what time of day it was and in what sequence the rape took place, that on a day that was not a happy occasion such as a birthday, but a day they wish to forget.

Now picture this: Imagine a small child trying to answer those three questions some two years later in a courtroom, because that is the length of time it takes for the average child abuse case to reach completion in our courts.

That is why the DA has declared a state of emergency on child abuse, together with the highly respected organisation Women and Men against Child Abuse. When over 120 000 children were raped and abused over a period of 21 months to September last year and only 8% resulted in convictions, there is no way of describing the situation other than a state of emergency.

This declaration arises out of a fact-finding mission conducted over the past few months by both the DA and Women and Men against Child Abuse, during which we visited 11 CPUs or child protection units across the country.

Despite Government’s statement that child abuse is a top priority crime, we discovered that CPUs are underfunded and that they are ill equipped and unable to combat the war being waged against our children.

All CPUs generally suffer the same deficiencies and shortcomings, including a debilitating lack of manpower, vehicles, communication equipment, child- friendly facilities and accommodation. Most units are operating at half their optimal strength. These include Soweto, Germiston, Mitchells Plain, Durban South, Durban North, Johannesburg and Pretoria.

At the Benoni CPU the average case load per investigating officer is 100 cases. They should be dealing with 25 cases per person. In addition to the above, CPUs endure a multitude of human resource problems, such as low salaries, inadequate debriefings, a chronic shortage of police forensic social workers, insultingly poor overtime remuneration, excessive delays in DNA reports, and a lack of training and trained officers.

A directive from the SAPS area office stipulates that the Durban North CPU personnel may only claim a maximum of R2 537 per member per annum before tax for overtime. This means that an inspector who works 76 hours extra per month only gets R2,78 per hour for working overtime. That is below the minimum wage this Government has set.

CPUs say that they are treated like the ``nappy squad’’, while the Government says child abuse is a top priority crime. Unfortunately the evidence on the ground proves the CPUs to be right. It is my contention that if the Government was serious about child abuse, as it claims to be, funding would immediately be released to CPUs and other organisations who put victims first. Having yet another child abuse debate in this House is pointless, unless it is matched with financial resources. [Applause.]

Mr M S BOOI: Chairperson, Deputy President, I do not agree with the logic that to have a debate in this House is useless, because it is quite important that as members of Parliament who represent society we should be able to reflect on what exactly is going on in our society, so that we are able to live up to our responsibilities, and so that we come up with suggestions as to what should be done in relation to this particular issue. Sensationalism and trying to score political points is not going to help on this issue. It needs all of us, as the Minister of Home Affairs has said. All the collectives should be challenged, and asked to take responsibility and do something in relation to this issue.

The ANC has suggested, through Ms Mnandi, that members of Parliament should be seen outside as one group, as members of Parliament and not as members of different parties, because it is quite important that when we deal with an issue such as this, we are not seen as representing what our parties want. On this issue parties should not try to gain advantage for themselves, because here we are dealing with issues that affect society. Nobody should say to himself or herself that he or she has a solution and is the only one able to resolve this problem.

When a 20-year-old woman is raped and tied to a railway track at one o’clock in the morning, so that a train runs over her, that says a lot about the society we are contributing towards. As South Africans, we should take responsibility and put our heads together, and do something in relation to this matter. I think that is the responsibility that the party which has placed this issue before the House is calling for.

When members say that there is no political will, they are not informed as South Africans or as members of Parliament. They are not taking responsibility for or reflecting honestly on what is happening within society. They are not acknowledging the responsibility that different Ministers are taking. Even the Deputy President spends most of his time going from house to house, trying to ensure that he speaks about the issue of moral regeneration. He tries to ensure that he speaks about issues that affect our young people.

Those members are addressing political issues. They are not really applying their minds to what we are supposed to do together to resolve this issue. As Azapo has said, the issue should not be what particular political party has done what, but how we as a society resolve this situation that we are confronted with.

Recommendations have come from the task group. Madam Speaker has even called on different parties to participate in the task group. This shows how important we regard this issue. We are not just relating to it for the sake of scoring political points, but because we are looking for a solution within society.

When the Deputy President goes on his campaign for moral regeneration, he does so because he is committed to finding solutions within society and within the different structures that have been created by civil society and NGOs, to see what they can contribute to what Government has been able to establish on the ground. That is the type of responsibility that is needed from South Africans.

What do we say as South Africans? Let us put aside party-political responses, such as demanding death row, and take responsibility by saying: ``What can I do to contribute to this issue and help to resolve it?’’ The children we are talking about are members’ children and my children; this can happen to anybody. Nobody is sending the criminals out at night to go and hunt our children, but we have a responsibility as South Africans and as politicians to do something.

When the Deputy Minister takes the responsibility of leaving the country and going to the UK to see how the latest technology relates to pornography and the Internet, it means that Government is taking this issue very seriously. It is not engaging with this issue just to score political points, but because it is looking for a solution.

When the Cabinet reflects on this issue and establishes a committee to take responsibility in relation to this matter, it shows how committed Government and the ANC are to resolving this issue. We as the ANC have come to this podium to support the efforts that are being undertaken to show how much our Government is contributing to confronting this issue. All of us as South Africans should take responsibility, hold hands and march together to find a solution, because we do not want to say that we are the ones who are going to provide the solution.

We do not want to defend the police and say that they are doing good work, but they are definitely doing good work because they work through the night to protect every citizen in South Africa and make sure they feel protected. But they definitely do not have the capacity to go into houses to see who is raping whom at what time. They acknowledge that the resources that they have are not enough and they are not able to address this issue efficiently. However, they are committed and hard-working.

Sometimes they are confronted with these issues when they see children who have been raped. Everybody needs to acknowledge the trauma that they suffer when they are confronted with such matters. They need a lot of support to enable them to handle these issues. This means that while resources are short and while the department is trying to prioritise these types of crimes, the police call on members of Parliament and members of civil society to take responsibility and assist them. They are also human beings and have responsibilities, and they also have children. When they see a child who has been raped, they cannot tolerate it. They cannot continue reflecting on that.

It is in our interest as South Africans to put our hands and minds together to support each other and make sure that we find solutions to what we are confronted with.

The task group says that we should ensure that we integrate the different programmes and resources of Government, and follow an integrated developmental strategy so that the department is able to address this issue in an integrated manner. We should also ensure that the different Government agencies dealing with this issue get together to find solutions on how to address this, so that the resources of the different departments are brought together, and we are able to address this scourge that we are talking about. We need to put our hands and heads together and find solutions.

The police and everybody, also schools, should continue making the public aware of what they are being confronted with. This is the type of campaign Nana Mnandi suggested again today. As members of Parliament, let us put our hands and heads together, let us walk together, and make sure that we confront this problem. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, comrades, fellow members of the National Assembly, firstly, I would like to thank the hon Minister of Home Affairs for bringing this important motion to the House today. The issue of child rape has received wide publicity in recent months and has shamed this nation. This heinous crime is no longer hidden and suppressed to the extent that it was in the past. Few South Africans can now claim to be unaware of its prevalence throughout our society.

A survey in the year 2000 reported by the Human Rights Commission found that in southern Gauteng alone, 20% of females and 13% of males had been victims of sexual abuse before they turned 18. In the year 2001, the Human Rights Watch found that on a daily basis, in schools across the nation, South African girls of every race and economic class encounter sexual violence and harassment at school that impedes the realisation of their right to education. Quite obviously, even amongst ourselves in this House, there must be some of us who have encountered this in our lives.

The SAPS reported 15 510 cases of child rape during the year 2000 and a further 15 680 cases during the year 2001. These reported statistics constitute a shockingly high incidence of rape in our country, let alone the unqualified number of cases that remain unreported. Several reasons have been put forward to explain the widespread perpetration of child rape. Surely we cannot attribute this phenomenon only to poverty, high-density, crowded living conditions, unemployment and inadequate child care. Surely, as Ms Mnandi has said here, there must be something else.

None of these explanations touched on the individual responsibility of the child rapist or the crime that he or she commits. Whatever one’s material, social or environmental circumstances, it is the individual who makes the decision to rape a child, and who motivates himself to commit a shocking crime of this nature. That is where the ultimate responsibility lies and should lie. That is the root of the problem that we have to tackle: the basic and fundamental moral, ethical and spiritual values of that individual have to be addressed. However, one cannot legislate for a person’s morality. This is why we as Government are so serious about the need for moral regeneration at a personal and community level.

It is critical for individuals and groups to be able to distinguish very clearly between what is right and permissible, and what is wrong and unacceptable in our social life. Whose role is it then to promote morality? Clearly, the family has a fundamental role. Where better can one learn moral values than from one’s own parents or extended family? Our examples as parents will dictate to our children how they should behave. The sad reality is that in many cases families are dysfunctional for a host of historical, political and social reasons, and are unable or unwilling to fulfil this role.

The next locus of responsibility is civil society and faith-based and community organisations. Civil society needs to be proactive in helping those who cannot help themselves. We as individual members of churches, mosques, temples, synagogues, sports clubs, youth clubs, women’s and other community organisations need to be on the look-out for potential problems in our social environment. As responsible members of civil society, it is our duty to intervene, and facilitate the necessary support and assistance for affected families and individuals in our communities.

A large proportion of child rape cases occur in schools, perpetrators being the so-called teachers. Many take place within homes, with adult relatives or friends taking advantage of defenceless children. Often rapes are not reported for fear of reprisals or further victimisation. We must put a stop to this.

How are we to recognise child victims of rape? Research shows that victims are usually aged between the ages of 8 and 16. They often lack parental supervision and may have an unstable home environment and poor ties with their families. They might be underachievers and members of low-to-average- income households. They are probably subject to abrupt mood and behaviour changes. They might be seekers of attention, praise and approval, and might also be inexplicably and unexpectedly in possession of more money or new toys and clothes, and are likely to be withdrawn from their normal family or peer groups.

What about the perpetrators of child rape? There is a good chance that they would be in possession of sexually explicit material such as photos, books and magazines with which to lower the inhibitions of the victims whom they want to attract. They may even be well liked in the neighbourhood and arouse no suspicion. They often do not appear to be the type of person that can be a threat to society.

As communities and individuals, we must be perceptive and alert to these symptoms and report any suspicions to the police, Government departments or organisations that deal with children. As Government we are obliged to put in place all the protective legislation that is necessary to shield our children from rape or any other form of abuse. South Africa does in fact have a comprehensive child protection policy and statutory framework. A framework is set out primarily in the South African Constitution, as well as in several international instruments and domestic legislation.

South Africa has acceded to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and other international conventions such as the African Charter on the Rights of the Child. Thereby we committed ourselves to taking all protective, legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect, negligent treatment, maltreatment and exploitation in our society. Section 28 of our Constitution guarantees every child the right to be protected from maltreatment, neglect and abuse.

There is a national plan of action for children in South Africa which makes specific provision for the protection of children. This was endorsed and launched by Cabinet on 31 May 1996. National legislation aimed at protecting children from sexual abuse exists. The revised children’s Bill that is currently going through the legislative process will make provision for a child protection register for both victims and perpetrators of child rape and other forms of abuse.

Already section 32 of the existing Child Care Act obliges professional social workers, teachers and medical health personnel to report circumstances giving rise to suspicion that a child a has been ill-treated. These people are indemnified from legal proceedings in respect of any notification given in good faith. Section 4 of the Prevention of Family Violence Act of 1993 contains a similar provision.

The purpose of the proposed child protection register will be to link the child and family as quickly as possible to a social work service; to centralise the notification of suspicion of ill treatment; to register each suspicion of ill treatment; to ensure follow-up protection of the child; to use information for research data; to influence welfare planning, budget allocation, law and policy; to keep information on legal action taken regarding the child and convicted perpetrator; and to share the information amongst professional persons if that would serve the best interests of the child.

The Department of Social Development is in the process of computerising the child protection register, following a pilot programme that was in operation for one year. The second phase of finalising the programme is at an advanced stage.

Finally, the department’s victim empowerment programme is developing a service directory to be utilised by police officers and other professionals for referral purposes. The programme provides counselling and support for victims and is striving to ensure the availability of shelter for victims of violence.

My appeal is that, regardless of political persuasion, we should all work together to eliminate this horrendous and abominable scourge of child rape and abuse from the social landscape. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to.

                   HIGHER EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, hon members, the Minister of Education apologises for his absence from this House today. He is taking a short break on the advice of his doctors.

There can be little doubt that within the broad canvas of educational change and transformation, this year has been the year of higher education. Cabinet’s approval of the Ministry’s proposals for the restructuring and transformation of the institutional landscape of higher education in May 2002 has set the stage for the implementation of the framework for the reconstruction and development of the higher education system, as outlined in the national plan for higher education.

The ensuing debate, including the legal challenge to the Government’s proposal to establish a single dedicated distance education institution through the merger of Unisa, Technikon SA and the distance education campus of Vista University, has placed the restructuring of higher education at the centre of the public discourse on education. However, despite recent media assertions that there is massive opposition to the restructuring proposals, interactions with a number of higher education institutions and constituencies in the past few months generally suggest widespread support for the proposals.

In this regard, we are pleased to announce that the council of Unisa has withdrawn its legal challenge, and therefore the establishment of a single dedicated distance education institution is back on track. More importantly, despite a last-minute attempt to prevent it, the ML Sultan Technikon and Technikon Natal were successfully merged and a new institution, called the Durban Institute of Technology, was established on 1 April this year.

We are confident that the restructuring and transformation agenda is firmly in place, and that future generations will graduate from higher education institutions that owe no allegiance to the geopolitical imagination of the apartheid planners.

The main reason for introducing the amending Bill is to facilitate the implementation of the higher education restructuring and transformation agenda. As indicated to the House before, the unfolding of the restructuring and transformation process which has resulted in the identification and clarification of gaps in the policy, has necessitated the review and amendment of the Higher Education Act.

The amending Bill has two purposes. The first is to introduce technical amendments to clarify and bring legal certainty to issues related to the merger of institutions, such as the authority to merge institutions and the attendant labour relations implications, as well as the implications for students in terms of rules and regulations governing academic programmes.

The second main purpose is to introduce amendments that streamline and strengthen the governance structures of higher education institutions. We will focus mainly on the second set of amendments. Good governance is the cornerstone of a well-functioning higher education system. It is the lever that enables the pursuit of academic freedom and institutional autonomy in the context of public accountability. The existence of properly constituted and functioning councils is essential to ensure that higher education institutions are able to respond to the demands of public accountability and, in particular, to demonstrate financial probity and their capacity to meet national policy goals and priorities. This is, however, sadly lacking in a number of our higher education institutions.

The absence of good governance is in large measure a product of the composition of institutional councils which are unnecessarily large, in some cases comprising up to 50 members, and very unwieldy. This is the end result of the post-1994 flourish of democracy, with its focus on transforming undemocratic and unrepresentative councils. However, in invoking the spirit of democracy, little or no attention was paid to the impact of large councils, representative though they may have been, on efficiency and effectiveness. In particular, little or no attention was paid to ensuring that councils had the necessary expertise to deal with their academic, educational, legal and fiduciary responsibilities. Although the department has initiated a training programme for council members, it is clear that the necessary expertise is the product of the accumulation of social capital, which the majority of our people have been denied by apartheid. In the light of this, the amending Bill limits the size of institutional councils to a maximum of 30 members, while keeping the principle that at least 60% of the members must be external to the institution.

The amending Bill also increases the size of interim councils which are established to facilitate the merger of higher education institutions from the current five to a minimum of five or a maximum of nine members. This amendment similarly seeks to ensure that the size of interim councils provides for the expertise necessary to discharge their functions efficiently and effectively.

The interim councils are transitional bodies necessary to facilitate the merger of higher education institutions. They have specific functions and a limited shelf life of six months, renewable only for a further six months. Except for the chairperson, members of the interim council are appointed from nominees submitted by the affected institutions.

Although the chairperson is appointed by the Minister, there is nothing preventing the affected institutions from submitting nominees for the chairperson’s position for consideration by the Minister. The point that must be emphasised is that interim councils function under the same authority and autonomy as normal institutional councils.

There is a critical issue that underpins the restructuring and transformation agenda but which is not addressed in the amending Bill. This is the issue of access, both in terms of increasing the participation rate in higher education as well as ensuring that there is equity in access. The national plan for higher education indicated that race and gender access would be facilitated by the establishment of a national higher education information and application service, which would have a number of benefits, including providing data on the available pool of applicants, satisfying the information needs of applicants on available study opportunities, providing career guidance and information, as well as enabling the Government to monitor progress in achieving race and gender access.

We are therefore pleased to announce that the working group appointed to investigate the development of an appropriate model for establishing a national higher education information and application service has submitted its report. The report is being released for public comment and we anticipate that the service itself will be established in the course of next year.

In conclusion, we are confident that the amending Bill, together with the other processes that are in place to implement the national plan for higher education, moves us ever closer to the goal of establishing a single, national, co-ordinated, high-quality, higher education system that is affordable and responsive to the human resource and knowledge needs of our country. [Applause.]

Mr E K MOORCROFT: Chairperson, the Bill before us seeks to amend the Higher Education Act, Act 101 of 1997. The Bill amends the principal Act so as to provide for consequential matters arising out of declarations and mergers of public higher education institutions.

The Bill furthermore provides for changes in the size of councils and institutional forums, the appointment of an administrator to take over the functions of a council which is deemed to have resigned, the Minister’s authority to make regulations and certain textual alterations.

The committee heard submissions from the following representative organisations: the National Education, Health and Allied Workers Union or Nehawu; the SA Qualifications Authority; the Committee of Technikon Principals; and the SA Universities Vice-Chancellors Association.

All presenters agreed to the Bill’s principles provided some modifications were made. Nehawu focused on the implications of the Bill for employees that would be affected by the transformation. The Committee of Technikon Principals and the SA Universities Vice-Chancellors Association agreed largely with Nehawu. Both bodies accepted the Bill’s proposition that the size of councils be limited to 30.

They expressed concern over the default limit on borrowing. The Director- General of the Department of Education explained that the 5% default was not absolute and that the Minister would act in good faith in his determination of application for borrowing by the public tertiary institutions. The DP looks forward to the hon the Minister honouring this promise, as many institutions do need bridging funds at the beginning of the year.

The SA Qualifications Authority’s view was that any national curriculum process must be inclusive of key education and training interest groups within the bands and across the bands, to ensure that issues of articulation are addressed at all levels. Should this not be achieved, we submit, the concept of an integrated approach to education and training would be lost. The current Bill reflects no reference to any process that the Minister might need to follow in producing the national curricula statements. This matter, we suggest, needs to be revisited.

Clauses 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the Bill relate to labour, student matters and consequential issues as a result of declarations and mergers of public higher education institutions. These amendments attempt to clarify and bring legal certainty to issues that the Act is currently silent or ambiguous on. These include the following. Firstly, they provide for transitional arrangements relating to the academic programmes offered by institutions prior to a merger. Provision is made to enable these programmes to be offered by the new institutions under the same rules applicable to the old institutions until the new council amends such programmes.

Secondly, there is a potential legal uncertainty with regard to the applicability of section 197 of the new Labour Relations Act, Act 66 of 1995, in relation to the Higher Education Act, Act 101 of 1997. The amendment seeks to make it clear that the law will automatically transfer all contracts of employment to the new institution.

Currently, the Act provides that the merged institution is deemed to be established as a higher education institution and that the Minister therefore has the authority to take such decisions. Clarity on the authority to take the decision to merge and give a name and physical location to the new institution is provided in the amendment.

Clearly, this Bill addresses, as indicated above, consequential matters arising out of declarations and mergers of public higher education institutions, and the DP will support the Bill.

Mr S B NTULI: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, colleagues, members of the public in the gallery, departmental officials, Deputy President, hon Minister Prof Kader Asmal in absentia, and hon Deputy Minister of Education Mr Mangena, the amendments of the Higher Education Bill represent a vital step. They will certainly leave their mark on our education system.

An objective of the amendments to the Higher Education Act is, among other things, to accelerate the transformation of higher education in our country. Perhaps one should take members back to where we come from with the history of education, that is, as far back as to the 1950s, just to refresh our memories.

The notorious Bantu Education Act of 1953 was designed to eradicate the influence of independent churches and mission schools. Most importantly, it was designed to provide Africans with a cheap form of mass education and training, geared towards the production of a subservient labour force. The Bantu Education Act of 1953 legislated for the separate funding of Africans, Indians, whites, coloureds, etc, as reflected in the budget for national education then, with the funding for Africans being the smallest.

Bantu education did not end there; separate institutions for the different race and ethnic groups were built, corresponding to the establishment and promotion of homelands. One thus had KwaZulu, KwaNdebele, Venda, Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, Transkei, etc.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: KwaZulu kuKwaZulu namanje. [KwaZulu is called KwaZulu even now.] [Laughter.]

Mr S B NTULI: Chairperson, bantu education provided a legal framework for the establishment of separate universities, colleges and technikons in line with the homelands system. Hence we saw the establishment of many institutions in line with Bantustans under the apartheid regime. Therefore, the Higher Education Act, which we are seeking to amend today, is aimed at bringing about the necessary transformation in higher education. Today issues of equity are of paramount importance. A new process to restore human dignity, respect and the development potential of a human being in general and a student in particular should be realisable through this Act.

The amendments we as the ANC are seeking to effect are aimed at the further transformation of higher education. I will speak to clauses 4 and 5 and appeal to university councils, university rectors, staff associations, student representatives, professors, workers and members of Nehawu to give a correct and complete report to education stakeholders.

Clause 4, amending of section 21 of Act 101 of 1997, deals with the employer and employee contract. It reaffirms that any redeployment of any employee as a consequence of the declaration is subject to the applicable labour legislation. It is therefore not true that this Government does not care about staff, workers and the members of staff associations of this country. What we are going to do is in line with the labour legislation of this country. Secondly, regarding the implementation of transformation, I will again refer to section 23 of Act 101 of 1997. The new subsection 2A states as follows:

… any reployment of an employee as a consequence of the merger is subject to applicable labour legislation.

This means that labour law and labour agreements between the employer and the employees should still be respected, observed and followed.

The amendment of section 23 of Act 101 of 1997 goes even further. The new subsection 2A states as follows:

If two or more public higher education institutions are merged into a single public higher education institution as contemplated in subsection (1), all the rights and obligations between the old employers and each employee at the time of the merger continue in force as if they were rights and obligations between the new employer and each employee and anything done before the merger by or in relation to the old employers is considered to have been done by or in relation to the new employer.

Lastly, I want to emphasise that the new section 23 (2G) stipulates that:

… the old employer may undertake rationalisation of its workforce according to operational requirements in accordance with section 189 of the Labour Relations Act, 1995, prior to the date of the merger contemplated in subsection (1).

Therefore, it is only we who can make a difference by making sure that we convey the correct message. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Mr Chairman, hon Ministers and hon members of the House, universities have always been wary of anything that might seem to them as encroaching on their autonomy. We support the autonomy of higher education institutions. We are however equally supportive of the idea that change and transformation cannot be left to chance, hence our qualified support for the restructuring of institutions of higher learning which is currently under public scrutiny.

This Bill is anticipatory in nature, as it seeks to make provisions, should mergers of higher education institutions take place. We have no quarrel with that.

The resistance from some groups within the institutions of higher learning emanates from various and varied factors. Fear of the unknown is one of them. Another factor is the fear of losing jobs. Of course, in any restructuring, including that of institutions of higher learning, there will be casualties.

We must point out, though, that our remarks must not be construed as support for or against mergers of higher learning institutions. We will cross that bridge when we reach it. Contracts, for instance, will be transferred to a merged institution. This is not to say that there will be no casualties. Two institutions that are merging will have one principal. This is precisely what we suspect might be the cause of resistance to mergers by certain principals of higher education institutions.

Our higher education institutions in general, and the previously disadvantaged ones in particular, have been unstable for a long time now. We do not intend going into the reasons for their instability. The point I am making is that the provisions for the appointment of an administrator to institutions which are suffering from malfunctioning of any kind is welcomed by us. Likewise, we welcome the fact that universities must be protected against themselves from going into unredeemable overdrafts.

The IFP supports this Bill.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Mr Chairman, allow me to wish the livewire Minister of Education a speedy recovery.

The New NP supports the Higher Education Amendment Bill. However, allow me to make a few observations. During the public hearings, the SA Universities Vice-Chancellors Association and the Committee of Technikon Principals expressed their serious concern about clause 8 of the Bill, which amends section 40 of the principal Act. Whilst they understand the Minister’s right to impose, in the public interest, limitations on an institution’s total borrowing, they object to the level of borrowing contemplated as the default position. They argue that if clause 8 is implemented, it could render some institutions inoperative during the first quarter when bridging funding is sought prior to the payment of the Government subsidy that commences only in April.

The Bill furthermore addresses matters emanating from possible mergers, and the previous speaker dealt with that very effectively.

The restructuring plan for higher education envisages a national institute for higher education in Mpumalanga. It could be worthwhile from a cost- saving perspective to use the two satellite campuses of the Pretoria Technikon in Witbank and Nelspruit as building blocks for the new national institute of higher education. Perhaps the steering committee or the department, which will oversee the merger, should negotiate with the Pretoria Technikon in this regard.

The 4 October deadline for final comments on the hon the Minister’s restructuring plan for higher education has expired. No one doubts the necessity for rationalisation of the higher education system, but various institutions have voiced serious objections against specific merger proposals. Unisa’s objection against a possible merger with Technikon SA is well known, although we appreciate the fact that they have withdrawn their legal application. RAU’s objection against a possible merger with the Witwatersrand Technikon also came to the fore lately.

Ek wil net drie opmerkings hieroor maak. Die Minister en sy Adjunk - Minister moet asseblief deeglik besin oor die wenslikheid om technikons en universiteite te laat saamsmelt, want daarvoor is hulle institusionele karakters net te verskillend. Geen samesmelting sal slaag as dit nie die goedkeuring van al die betrokkenes geniet nie. Taalpatrone moet in ag geneem word voordat ‘n finale besluit oor samesmelting geneem word.

Ons steun die wysigingswetsontwerp. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I just want to make three remarks about this. The Minister and his Deputy Minister must please carefully consider the expediency of merging technikons and universities, because their institutional characters are simply too different for that. No merger will succeed without the approval of all the stakeholders. Language patterns should be taken into consideration before a final decision is made about a merger.

We support the amending bill. [Applause.]]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairman, earlier speakers have referred to the purpose of this proposed amending Bill, and it should be clear that we are dealing here with enabling legislation. Speakers have also dealt with the substance of the Bill, and have clarified the proposed changes to the existing Act. It is therefore superfluous for me to dwell at length on these aspects during my limited time slot.

The UDM supports the amending Bill; it is as simple as that. Whilst the amending Bill in itself is enabling legislation, and not controversial, it should be publicly emphasised that the submission of memoranda on the restructuring proposals per se, by interested stakeholders by 4 October 2002, remains unaffected by the passing of this legislation.

In this context, I make bold to appeal to the Minister and the Deputy Minister to consider very seriously submissions expected to have been received from quarters where the restructuring proposals are likely to be frowned upon. I am not referring here to those that seek to halt transformation. Restructuring efforts will succeed where it is seen by the affected people as transformation towards better service delivery in the field of tertiary education. However, wherever the groundswell of opinion in a particular region perceives of restructuring as counterproductive it will not be accepted without growing resistance.

Aside from formal submissions, the Ministry is urged to take heed of growing public sentiment against the restructuring of specifically the University of Transkei and to re-examine the plans outlined for the affected region as a whole. It would appear that senior people go berserk and picture the Matanzimas in their mind’s eye when issues around the old Transkei are raised. I should hope that the people with the executive powers will rise above this kind of irrational behaviour.

While restructuring plans for the Eastern Cape may make logical sense on paper, there appears to be a need to listen again, perhaps a little more attentively this time, to the views of the people who are most directly affected by the proposed changes. [Time expired.] Ms C DUDLEY: Chairman, the challenge for institutions of higher education to retain institutional relevance and intellectual integrity is of utmost concern, as institutions endeavour to make the necessary changes required by the new South Africa. It is inevitable that institutions will fight for their survival, and in this respect their foundations are being shaken, while Government continues to impose legislation regardless of current discontent.

The Bill’s intent regarding incorporations and mergers will bring about personnel changes and faculty adjustment, while financial constraints are huge and student debt adds to the potential threat of transformation to previously disadvantaged institutions.

Although the Bill has reduced the potential harm of employees becoming redundant at this stage, the original wording that the transfer of the contracts existent under the old ruling would take place ``without employees’ consent’’, has given rise to concerns. While the intent of the department is yet to be revealed, legislation now gives the Minister huge powers to drive mergers.

This legislation appears to reduce the relatively strongly independent character of higher education in South Africa and has been described as part of ``an ever-increasing trend towards centralising control’’.

We need vibrant independent pools of learning in our nation, and not sterile, centralised control which smothers and brings death.

The ACDP will not support this Bill. [Time expired.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chair, the MF is glad to note the positive transition that the department is undergoing by earnestly addressing the imbalances of the past in the sector. At the end of the day, the most crucial and important factor is the wellbeing of the child, no matter if he or she is from a poverty-stricken or an affluent area.

Past injustices have to be earnestly addressed, so that equity may be reached in the education we are providing to each and every person. This is their constitutional right. We have seen the education sector being revamped to achieve this. The merger of public higher education institutions appears most favourable, and the amending Bill brings about clarification and certainty to accommodate this necessity.

The changes, though necessary, have been a strain on all within the department and employed by the state within the sector. Teachers especially have been moved and exposed to a lot of changes, and changes, as we know, are not that easy.

At the end of the day, our priority is to deliver our constitutional responsibility, which is to protect and ensure every citizen’s right to education, and to ensure that this right is activated, efficiently and effectively, throughout South Africa.

The MF supports the Higher Education Amendment Bill. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Voorsitter, op die oog af lyk hierdie wetsontwerp baie onskuldig. Dit is bloot die daarstelling van ‘n wetsraamwerk vir die samesmelting van tersiêre inrigtings. Die vraag is egter: Wat lê hier agter? Dit is die herskikking van die tersiêre landskap aan die hand van die Minister, wat soos ‘n skaakmeester pionne rondskuif. Samesmelting word nou al wettiglik vasgelê, terwyl die Gerwel-verslag nog nie eers verwerk is nie.

Daar is twee groot leemtes in die wetsontwerp: Dit maak voorsiening vir personeel, vir die rade en vir kontrakte, maar van die belangrikste aspekte van die universiteite word nie verskans nie. Wat van die taal van samesmeltende inrigtings? Wat van die kulturele etos van twee inrigtings wat tans verskil? Hoe gaan die nuwe daar uitsien? Inteendeel, die nuwe artikel 23(3)(b) bemagtig die Minister om na oorlegpleging met die betrokke rade die tipe en naam van die inrigting te bepaal. Artikel 12(d) magtig die Minister om regulasies uit te vaardig oor enige beleidsaangeleentheid, soos die oorspronklike wet bepaal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, at first glance this Bill looks quite harmless. It is simply the establishment of a legal framework for the amalgamation of tertiary institutions. However, the question is: What lies behind this? It is the rearrangement of the tertiary landscape at the hand of the Minister, who is moving pawns around like a chess master. Amalgamation is already being legally entrenched, whilst the Gerwel report has not yet even been processed.

There are two majur lacunae in this Bill: It makes provision for staff, for the councils and for contracts, but some of the most important aspects of the universities are not entrenched. What about the language of amalgamated institutions? What about the cultural ethos of two institutions that currently differ? What will the new one look like? On the contrary, the new section 23(3)(b) empowers the Minister, after consultation with the relevant councils, to determine the type and name of the institution. Section 12(d) empowers the Minister to promulgate regulations about any policy-related matter, as the original Act determines.]

The tertiary landscape should be reshaped. That is necessary, but it should be done using a bottom-up process. This Bill legalises the top-down approach by the hon the Minister, and therefore we cannot support this Bill. [Time expired.]

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Chairperson, hon members, the Bill before us today reaffirms the process of transformation of education in the country, particularly higher education. The higher education terrain has been an immensely contested terrain, as part of the overall struggle for democratic and quality education for our people, particularly the African people in the country.

Since the days of the separate universities there has been an outcry for equal education, and for a movement away from separate higher institutions of learning. The Bill today seeks to address the fact that there should be equal universities, that are not separate. Progressive student movements, unions and all progressive forces in the country have tried, with the help of the Higher Education Act, to force transformation of higher education to take place. Higher Education must provide the quality of education that is going to respond to the needs of the country at this point in time.

South Africa is at the crossroads where higher education should be transformed so as to be responsive to the present situation, so that it can be an element of tackling the economy of this country, standard of education, nonracialism and nonsexism. At the level of higher education we should be able to say we have democratic, nonracial institutions which offer education for all in this country. This is the beginning of that process in our institutions of higher learning.

One of the most important documents of the ANC, the RDP, contains a clause stating that the higher education system represents a major resource of national development and contributes to the worldwide advancement of knowledge, but its present structure is not what it is supposed to be. Empowering through higher education can only take place at universities that are well equipped and well resourced, and aimed at the other section of the community. This Bill is beginning to address that. All of us should be the army that is ready to tackle change in this country.

This Bill is also going to assist with capacity, by providing for the kind of student cadres that will be produced by these institutions. These institutions must be able to produce good researchers and people that can be taken out of the education system to be ready to conform to the state environment. They must be the army that is going to assist in the reconstruction and development of this country, as required by their institutions of higher learning.

There is an issue that I want to raise quickly with the Deputy Minister. Last week we ended up at the the old University of Qwa-Qwa, which is supposed to be incorporated into the University of the Free State. There is something going on there that is not correct. The University of the Free State has gone there with arrogance, throwing around its weight, and has told the University of Qwa-Qwa: ``Take it or leave it’’.

I do not think that is the spirit in which these universities should merge. Many of the people, eight of them, have already been given severance packages in the midst of this process of transformation. I do not think the ANC is supportive of that kind of move. That is not correct.

The ANC supports this wide-ranging transformation and it is a big gain for our people in this country. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank all the hon members for their positive contributions, by and large, except for Mr Moorcroft who seemed to confuse the Higher Education Amendment Bill with other education Bills. I suppose that if he went and read his speech closely and related that to other Bills that were put before the House, he will probably realise that he has misdirected himself.

However, as far as declaring a national curriculum statement for higher education is concerned, as he seems to suggest, we are not in a position to do that at the moment. We will definitely not legislate, but the Ministry intends to hold a higher education curriculum indaba next year, to which all the universities and institutions of higher learning will be invited.

I wish to thank members and indicate that the inputs that they have made here generally reflect what is happening out there. The universities, technikons and other people who have a role in this are generally supportive. They realise that although we do not have a bad higher education system, we can make it better, and that is what we intend to do.

As far as details that we differ about are concerned, that will be handled with the relevant stakeholders and will be handled as sensitively as possible. We hope that when the submissions that have been made have been studied, they will be shared with all concerned and with this House. We hope that this country will ultimately get a higher education system that we can all be proud of and that will serve the new society as well as it should. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time (African Christian Democratic Party and Afrikaner Eenheidsbeweging dissenting).

               INTERNATIONAL TRADE ADMINISTRATION BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, this Bill and the new institutional structure that it introduces are the products of many years of development and work, and these developments could only have taken place after the advent of a democratic South Africa.

There are three main reasons why we have introduced the Bill and proposed changes to the structure, and formed the International Trade Administration Commission. The first is because of numerous international obligations that South Africa is now very much part of, ranging from the WTO through to many other conventions that exist and which we have recently acceded to. We have also, of course, entered into new and very significant agreements in the form of the European Trade and Development Agreement and the SADC agreement and, as I shall come to shortly, the South African Customs Union Agreement. These changes in South Africa’s ability to negotiate trade agreements mean that our administration of those agreements and of trade had to be improved, updated and modernised.

The second main reason for making the changes that we are proposing here is the changes that have taken place within the Department of Trade and Industry itself. As members who are familiar with the department will know, we have in essence divided the department between those divisions which deal with policy and strategy, those divisions which are service providers and interact with economic citizens, and those divisions that fulfil an adjudicating function but alongside that function provide certain critical services to economic actors.

In this case, the new International Trade Administration Commission would fall within the third category and, alongside the Companies and Intellectual Properties Office, plays an adjudicative function and provides certain critical services to economic citizens. We have moved certain of the functions from the DTI across to the new commission and this, I think, will strengthen the coherence of its functions, for example, export and import permits, which are important, and rebate provisions. All of these are then linked with the administration of the trade agreements, and I think this will strengthen considerably the ability of the new commission to carry out investigations and its work within this very complex and difficult domain of international trade.

The third key area that caused us to make the changes and bring about the new commission, is what I believe to be a truly historic achievement, and that is the renegotiation of the Southern African Customs Union Agreement. Many members may know that this is the oldest customs union in the world today, dating back to 1910. So it is not far from a 100 years old.

But what was clearly the case, was that the members of the Customs Union - Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia, Swaziland and South Africa - were not all equal in the arrangements of that Customs Union. In fact, one could say quite frankly that South Africa entirely dominated that Customs Union. This increasingly created difficult problems for us. A range of difficulties occurred. There had been an assumption, for example, that anti-dumping actions that were taken by South Africa were also applicable in the member states. It took the trade policy review of the WTO to point out to us that this was not the case, and that it was necessary for each member state of the Customs Union to have a national centre of its own that would deal with these actions.

But it was also the case that South Africa was making decisions on tariffs without any obligation to have to consult with the other member states of the Customs Union. Accordingly, straight after 1994 we embarked on some very difficult negotiations around the Southern African Customs Union. There were two areas that were of concern in these negotiations and created the most difficulty. The one was the issue I have just covered - the fact that in essence the Customs Union was not democratic and did not allow for real economic integration and co-operation. Secondly, the revenue formula in that agreement, from South Africa’s point of view, led to the possibility that we would be required to pay out funds that in fact had not been collected. We have now reached an agreement on that and the agreement, we hope, will be signed by the heads of state of the Customs Union member states on Monday, 21 October. But, in setting up the International Trade Administration Commission, we have created South Africa’s own national centre that will undertake the economic evaluations and investigations that are necessary in our economy, within a clearly defined space allocated to it. At the same time procedures are set out for how these decisions will interact with the structures of the Southern African Customs Union. In this way, I believe, we have brought about an important new and innovative structure of economic co-operation and integration. This is no doubt the first of its kind in Africa and I think is likely to form a model for future structures of economic integration and co-operation of this type.

I believe we have also introduced new and important provisions which will make policy more transparent and place an obligation on Ministers, if they wish to announce policy provisions, to announce them in writing and clearly, so that all persons are aware of them. It also, I think, clarifies considerably the fact that any decision taken at the Customs Union level will also then be gazetted, so that all actors in the South African economy will be aware of that.

Chairperson, colleagues, I would be particularly like to thank the committees, both in this House and in the National Council of Provinces, for the hard work they have done on this Bill and for the very constructive amendments they have made, which, from the department’s point of view, are improvements to the Bill. I would urge all parties in this House to support this important new change and modernisation of South Africa’s increasingly dynamic trading environment. [Applause.]

Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, we thank the Minister for the very clear elaboration of the purposes of the Bill. I think one wants to emphasise that what is actually happening is that a new administrative structure is going to replace the Board on Tariffs and Trade. This is going to be an important structure which needs considerable attention. It particularly deserves attention because the International Trade Administration Commission is going to be accountable to Parliament, and therefore we do need to keep an eye on what is happening.

Of very great importance is that the new commission will strengthen regional integration in SADC. This is obviously a major objective of the Government, Nepad and all of us. We have made a commitment as Parliament to it, and therefore regional integration is something to which we have to pay a great deal of attention.

We understand that the creation of the body is linked to the new Southern African Customs Union Agreement, which embraces South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland and Namibia. This agreement is under way and we will no doubt be hearing a great deal more about it.

One has to say that the commission is designed to be independent. It will do investigations and make recommendations on changes in tariffs and related matters. It will have powers with regard to the imposition of anti- dumping duties and safeguards against subsidies or disruptive competition. Now, from the point of view of the portfolio committee, this is clearly largely an administrative Bill, but when we looked at it we found that there were certain policy implications which deserved our attention. We were told ungakhathazeki'',kodwa ngikhathazekile’’ because there were certain concerns that did bother us in the field of policy. We looked at it fairly carefully and we think that the committee’s deliberations did enrich the Bill, so let me report on that.

In clause 2, the objects of the Bill originally stated that the Bill was to foster economic growth and development of industry. We looked at that and we thought that was a rather narrow formulation. We therefore produced an amendment which says that the Bill seeks to foster economic growth and development - it did not mention industry'' - in order to raise incomes and promote investment and employment in the Republic and within the common customs area. So, the shift we made there was from fostering economic growth and development of industry’’ - we left out the word ``industry’’ for reasons that I will come to in a minute, and we included the notion of raising incomes and promoting investment and employment in the Republic. That was one issue that we took up and spent a great deal of time discussing.

Then, on clause 5 … [Interjections.]

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Is that the hard-left or the ultra-left agenda?

Prof B TUROK: The hon member is sitting on my left, so he ought to know. Are you hard, soft or mediocre? Do tell us. [Interjections.]

Clause 5 originally said that the Minister may issue policy statements or directives. Some objections and questions were raised about that. We therefore amended it as follows:

The Minister may, by notice in the gazette and in accordance with procedures established by the Constitution or any other relevant law, issue trade policy statements and directives. The reason we did that is that some people were saying that it was not enough that the Minister should issue trade policy statements. Certain informal consultative processes should be followed which would enrich the whole process and bring people on board. We also thought that a White Paper might be in place, dealing with the whole question of trade policy and how statements and policy are made in this area.

Clause 6 of the original draft said that members of the commission must be representative of a broad cross-section of the population of the Republic. We thought that could be enriched as well. We therefore added a number of phrases which said that members of the commission should be representative of a broad cross-section of the Republic, including women. It was the women members of our committee who said that referring merely to the cross- section was not enough, that in terms of the Constitution of South Africa and according the present views of Parliament and all of us, there should be a special mention of women.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: That is too soft.

Prof B TUROK: Would the hon member like me to reply to him? [Laughter.]

Then we said that the President must endeavour to ensure the participation of significant economic sectors. This is in line with the previous point I was making, that this Bill covers not only industry, but also areas such as agriculture. Since trade in this region and indeed elsewhere includes agriculture on a significant scale, we thought it better to ensure the participation of significant economic sectors, which would thereby allow us to include agriculture.

On clause 22 we had rather significant representation from the South African Chamber of Business. The hon Bruce has arrived. Maybe I should say that the hon Bruce often comes as the spokesman of business. I have noticed one thing about him, and that is that when it comes to business no one can say that the hon Bruce is a yes-man. He is not a yes-man because when business says no, he also says no. [Laughter.]

In this discussion we had representations from Sacob and they said, and I quote:

The acceptance of the Bill and its passage into law in its present form would have negative consequences as a result of inevitable delays.

They harped a great deal on the possible inefficiencies that would come into this commission if we passed the Bill in that form. Our view was that we could hold regional integration and the building of regional institutions, and also allow South Africa to be the sole arbiter of decisions on trade relations. Therefore, we thought the Bill should go ahead; if necessary, changes could be brought to the NCOP. But we thought that the Bill was fine. We did strengthen clause 22 somewhat in order to make the whole process stronger, and I would just like to report on that.

Clause 22(3) says that the chief commissioner must submit to the Minister an annual report. Therefore there would be a way of monitoring the activity of the commission, even though it is independent and so on. Subclause (c) says that the commission must submit a report on its performance and activities. We thought that including the phrase ``the performance of the commission’’ would be a safeguard against possible undue delays and we hoped that would satisfy Sacob. I think it did. Whether it satisfied the hon Bruce, we shall hear in a moment. I look forward to his performance; I hope it will not be an aria.

Finally, the Minister may table in Parliament other reports, also a statement of progress achieved, and this seemed to indicate to us that this Bill would allow for considerable oversight on our part and on the part of the Minister. Therefore we propose that the House should support it. Whether the hon Bruce will do that, we will hear in a moment. [Applause.]

Mr N S BRUCE: Chairman, the hon Ben Turok, thank you for that introduction. I am, generally speaking, quite proud to speak on behalf of business. When it comes to Sacob and Mr Kevin Wakefield however - Wakeford, Wakefield, I can never remember - I think the member has it a little wrong. It has been a long afternoon; we have started with child rape and we have gone on to education, and the ayatollah is not here to defend himself, so I do not want to keep members too long on a Bill such as this.

Let me tell the Minister right from the start that we will not oppose this Bill. We think when the hon Turok said we'' he actually meant I’’ for most of what he said, but be that as it may, this Bill appears to us to provide a more efficient legal and regulatory architecture for international trade, especially so far as the Customs Union is concerned. But until it is operative we will not really know how well it achieves its purpose.

Much will depend on how the Minister applies his powers of regulation and how it is implemented by DTI officials and their counterparts in our trading partners. The certainty of the regulatory environment, the implementation of policy under its aegis, and the depths of its vision are all important if this economy is to become more efficient and thereby foster investment, growth and jobs.

There is an administrative need to ensure that dogma does not distort advantage. For instance, we have become well known as one of the most active countries in invoking anti-dumping laws. This is all very well, but at times dumping keeps prices down and it should not be used as a substitute for protection.

In this regard, it was salutary to learn from the legal profession that the DTI’s new Companies and Intellectual Registration Office or Cipro is to be run, advised and consulted by a former oil executive, Rob Angel, known affectionately as Gabriel to his friends. His qualifications for the job, however, are abysmal. He has great experience, is white, English-speaking, middle-aged and male. But I hear he is married into the ANC, clearly either a man of sagacity, ambition or good taste, or all three.

Can the hon the Minister find someone else equally abysmally qualified to run this new DTI division or whatever it is now going to be called? Always assuming, of course, that they have married into the ANC? There is Ken Owen, ``Hony Turd’’, Dave Dalling - what untold talent is at the Minister’s behest. None of them, however, I think, holds a candle to the Archangel Gabriel.

Trade policy is of particular moment now as rising food prices are in the headlines, and the Competition Commission has been told to find out why. I cannot think of a more misplaced brief. Our current inflation has nothing to do with private sector prices determined in competitive markets. It has everything to do with prices administered by Government and by the decline in the value of the currency.

Worldwide food prices are rising. Our antidote is to remove what is left of protection for agricultural producers and to persuade developing countries to dump their surplus food in our markets. Our agricultural industry will become more efficient and consumers will benefit mightily.

But that is not all. The decline in the value of the rand is the real culprit. And that plunge is not new. It has not just happened, as Kevin Wakeford would have us believe. Look at the Reserve Bank’s annual economic report, page 51. It shows that since 1994 the index has fallen from 120 to about 40 - a massive erosion of capital value.

That is no speculative flash in the pan. It is a long and sustained vote of no confidence in this country’s ability to provide investors with adequate returns. Stop the rand falling and one will stop food prices rising. If Government believes it cannot stop the currency falling, then a basic income grant is unavoidable, and will become increasingly so.

The rand’s prolonged plunge, and the absence of investment that it implies, is a clear vote of no confidence in this Government’s inadequate empowerment, labour and economic policies. Now the currency needs to be nurtured back to where it was years ago.

The way to do that is to go for growth, to take advantage of the shot in the arm the plunging rand has given us and maximise its impact. Keep administered prices down. Give a commission the task of investigating what needs to be done to reduce the cost of doing business. Use this new Bill to keep our borders open to cheap goods. Think, for once, of the consumer.

What we should not be doing is increasing interest rates. Inflation is being caused, not by excessive demand, but by the constantly rising costs of essential imports, of which food is one. Monetary policy is simply constraining what temporary benefit we can get from a soft rand without doing anything to contain inflation.

Even before the latest increase, interest rates were too high. The overdraft rate now should be the rate of inflation plus two or three percent. It is not. Do members want to know why? It is simply that the Reserve Bank has let the money supply rip. The first quarter of this year saw an annualised 32% increase in M3, the highest quarterly growth rate ever recorded.

A plunging currency, Chairman, is always only a shot in the arm. And, as its impact diminishes, our manufacturers will increasingly be producing less at greater cost. [Time expired.]

Mr H J BEKKER: Mr Chairperson, today we have heard about the hardliners, the softliners - I do not know whether some people are going soft in the head as well at this stage. Old age is catching up with all of us, including me, so I do not excuse myself from that particular aspect. Today I sometimes found myself very much in agreement with the hon Bruce, particularly when he started lashing out at the high interest rates, inflation and the culmination of those particular aspects.

If we look at the Bill before us, we must bear in mind that South Africa is a developing nation. It is highly dependent on international and regional trade as one of the cornerstones of our economy. As we move away from the import substitution trade policies of the past and onto the path of export- led economic growth, the importance of international and regional trade cannot be overstated.

The accelerating pace of globalisation and the progressive elimination of trade barriers underline the fact that South Africa must at all times be in a position to take advantage of favourable trade conditions. An efficient and responsive trade regulatory system and competent trade institutions are preconditions for successful international and regional trade.

The International Trade Administration Bill attempts to create this favourable trade environment by establishing a new body, the Commission for International Trade Administration, or Cita. This body will be an independent regulator of international trade agreements and is the result of a change in policy by the Department of Trade and Industry to separate its implementation functions from its regulatory and administrative functions. The realisation that the separation is required should be welcomed. In essence, Cita will be charged with the investigation and adjudication of international trade applications or complaints within South Africa and will be responsible for issuing import and export permits, except in the case of certain military products that are controlled under separate legislation. Cita will also replace the existing Board on Tariffs and Trade.

The second reason for the establishment of Cita is to be found in the obligations placed on South Africa in terms of the Southern African Customs Union Agreement with our regional trade partners. The new SACU Agreement establishes a SACU tariff board, which will be dependent on national institutions to support it, to formulate recommendations on common tariff and trade remedies. South Africa’s new Cita will fulfil this role when all SACU member states have sufficiently developed their structures to carry out their functions relating to customs duties. In addition to the functions carried out by the existing board, Cita will also carry out the following new functions, to mention but a few. It will investigate and evaluate allegations of dumping, subsidised exports and disruptive competition; investigate and evaluate applications for amended customs duties; investigate and evaluate issuing export and import control permits; and monitor and report to the Minister on relevant matters.

The IFP will support the International Trade Administration Bill, as we believe that the Cita established by this Bill will be a more effective and responsive trade regulatory body than the existing Board on Tariffs and Trade. Due to its independence and overarching functional area, it will be an asset in promoting South Africa’s international and regional trade relationships to the benefit of our economy.

Dr R T RHODA: Mr Chairperson, developments in the world economy, particularly the trends towards increasing international competition and globalisation, will have an enormous impact on the future character of Southern African regionalism.

Today Southern Africa’s most important institutional arrangements are all in a state of transformation as they endeavour to respond to the new regional environment. SADC, Comesa and SACU have already adopted or are in the process of renegotiating new constitutions. We come from nearly a century where customs tariffs were used solely for protection. The present SACU agreement came into force in 1969. It is peculiar to our region and is widely regarded as the most effective functioning trade agreement in Africa.

The origins of SACU date back to 1893. In the old days South Africa pursued a highly protectionist policy, designed to promote industrialisation through a combination of import substitution and, in the late 1980s, limited export-led growth. After 1991, a new policy of substantial tariff reform, focused on reducing levels of protectionism, was adopted. Today, we are on the threshold of a miracle. South Africa exports six times more manufactured goods than 10 years ago. We are today one of the world’s fastest growing car exporters. Today the best BMWs in the world are made in South Africa. Over the past five years our productivity has grown between 4% and 6% as opposed to a growth of 2% to 3% in America. Our national debt is decreasing, something unheard of in most developing countries.

South Africa’s budget deficit is now smaller than that of any of the world’s seven top economies, excluding America. Our economy continues to grow. We just need to continue believing in ourselves.

Amongst other things, the Bill creates a new modernised administrative regime for the conduct of international trade. It is a Bill that proposes to establish how a member of SACU actually conducts a trade policy. The International Trade Administration Bill speaks to what the arrangements in South Africa will be. Essentially what the Bill seeks to do is to provide an institutional basis for the conduct of new trade policy, and in particular the application of customs tariffs, in line with the objectives of South Africa’s commitments to trade arrangements with the World Trade Organisation. We provide an interface with SACU institutions. We make the legal and constitutional provisions, in very broad terms, to Government’s democratic consultative relations with other countries in the region, in other words, shared decision-making.

Until the SACU Agreement and the related protocols and procedures are in force, those aspects of the Bill that refer to the interface with SACU will not be in force. This means that the current situation will continue under this legislation until the SACU agreement has been ratified by this Parliament.

Sacob, Cosatu and Agri SA have all made valuable inputs and contributions, and we have tried our best to address their points of concern. We do, however, need to look into the illegal dumping of second-hand clothing. The movement towards globalisation, particularly in the economic sphere, is a widely accepted phenomenon in international trade relations. Throughout the social sciences and more generally, led by the internationalisation of the factors of production and consumption, the process of globalisation is perceived to be eroding the sovereign authority of states. In theory, unfettered and uncontrollable markets are the world’s principal economic actors and agents of change.

This Bill is very worthy of being passed and therefore the New NP has no objection in supporting it. [Time expired.]

Ms J MOLOI: Chairperson, hon members and distinguished guests, it is important for South Africa continuously to evaluate and improve its trade policies in order to strengthen its domestic growth. Trade enables a country to consume outside its own production paradigm. Similarly, good trade policies allow countries to export those goods that they are efficient in producing, in order to import those goods that they are unable to produce. However, the mandates of these trade policies are influenced by the differences in the information and communication technology and labour costs, as well as the institutional capacity of countries.

Since 1994 South Africa has gradually been moving from an inward-looking economy to an outward-looking economy. These factors became vital for our performance in the international trade arena. Openness to international trade has lead to relative price increases in exports and a fall in the domestic import substitutes. Based on this, trade reforms were necessary to ensure that the South African economy becomes more efficient and competitive.

For the International Trade Administration Bill to have an impact, it is important for countries to be part of the negotiations where broad priorities could be translated into specific negotiation proposals.

The ANC is of the view that we need to draw in alliance partners that share the same objectives from Third World countries in order to strengthen our position to bring about development. We further believe that this Bill should aim to foster economic growth and development that will raise incomes, and promote investments and employment in the Republic of South Africa and within the common customs area.

This can be done by establishing an efficient and effective system for the administration of international trade, subject to this Bill and the SACU agreement. The International Trade Administration Commission is therefore a step in the right direction. The Bill we are debating today is in essence an administrative aid and not a trade policy. It therefore has a new mandate, that of investigating and evaluating the alleged dumping, subsidised exports and disruptive competition, and the investigation and evaluation of applications for the amendment of customs duties.

The department investigates, evaluates and determines applications and the issuing of permits in respect of rebates and certification, and, critically, deals with monitoring, reviewing and reporting to the Minister on matters that may be assigned to it from time to time.

We welcome the fact that this Bill allows the Minister of Trade and Industry to issue trade policy statements or directives, and the power to regulate imports and export until the Southern African Customs Union Agreement is finalised. I am sure this fact has been stated quite effectively.

It should be emphasised that all these goals can be realised once the International Trade and Administration Commission is fully functioning, and this Bill seeks to do exactly that. This Bill provides for a transitional mechanism between the old legislation and the Southern African Customs Union Agreement. Although evidence exists of dumping by anti-export buyers and the effective rate of protection still remains high within the region, South Africa remains committed to the following: The strengthening of a rules-based system; a continuous negotiation to focus on development; encouraging investment and development in the South; addressing imbalances that exist within the World Trade Organisation rules; enhancing market access for developing country exports; and ensuring Africa’s effective participation, both regionally and globally.

An outstanding feature of the passage of this Bill is the process of engagement that was followed between the social partners within Nedlac. The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry welcomes the adequate understanding of the impact of proposed measures and guidelines in terms of the developmental issues by the social partners. However, the biggest challenges that lie ahead of us remain the extent to which we can yield tangible benefits to the disadvantaged people in general, how we can improve the position of women and the rural poor, and how we can enhance growth through the common customs area and break the existing cycle of poverty.

I would like to indicate that through its work the portfolio committee has consciously mainstreamed gender in the development of this Bill. Through its oversight role it will ensure that it monitors the implementation of the Bill so that monitoring is not limited to a rating of the Bill.

In conclusion, I would like to congratulate the Department of Trade and Industry on the sterling work that they have done and submitted to Parliament. I would also like to congratulate the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on its continuous engagement, and more especially the chairperson who has made sure that all the disputes were looked into. We want to indicate that as the ANC we support this Bill.

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson and hon Minister, the UDM supports the Bill. The Bill does not deal with policy but rather with administrative and procedural issues. That is not to say that the Bill is not significant, but merely that it serves to further enhance the implementation of current policy. What remains to be addressed in future is the reform of the SA Customs Union.

However, in the meanwhile it is necessary to ensure that the current trade across South African borders occurs in a fair and equitable manner. The Bill has been necessitated by the increasingly direct role that trade tariffs and liberalisation play in our domestic economic life. Given the overwhelmingly complex nature of tariffs and trades within the context of the Southern African Customs Union the need has developed to update the administration of tariff policy, whilst bringing it in line with current policy as well as international trade agreements that South Africa has acceded to.

As the senior economic stakeholder in the Southern African region, this country has a duty to ensure that we lead the way in proper, efficient and responsible trade. In this regard the onus is on this country to ensure that the necessary administrative and procedural mechanisms are in place. We cannot expect our partners in the Southern African Customs Union to embrace reform if we do not lead by example. It is hoped that this Bill will enhance this transparency of trade and tariff policy administration and enable greater scrutiny of these instruments. The requirement is for the Minister to consult with Nedlac and the Cabinet seeks to ensure greater inclusiveness and accountability. However, ultimately, accountability must include consulting with the elected representatives of the South African people in general.

The Bill further provides for the establishment of the Commission for International Trade Administration. The commission will replace the Board on Tariffs and Trade. Besides taking over the functions of the Board on Tariffs and Trade, the Bill also charges the CITA with additional duties. These are to investigate and evaluate allegations of dumping, subsidised exports, amendments of customs duties applications and issuing of rebate permits. The CITA will also monitor, review and report on trade issues within its ambit to the Minister of Trade and Industry.

We welcome this new arrangement and we want to support the Bill.

Adv Z L MADASA: Chairperson, the Bill seeks to facilitate an efficient and effective system for the administration of international trade within the framework of prevailing economic policy and the SACU Agreement. The Bill also replaces the old Board on Tariffs and Trade whilst at the same time transferring some of its functions to the new commission. The Bill will strengthen regional integration and harmonisation.

Concerns were raised by some union representatives that the Bill may give the Minister unfettered discretion to make policy without consulting key stakeholders. Although the department felt that this concern was unwarranted, an amendment was considered to cover this concern. An amendment has been introduced to make policy decisions more transparent.

Business representatives, on the other hand, expressed concern about the tempo of the resolution of anti-dumping complaints. These representatives sounded nostalgic concerning the old policy of protectionism. We in the ACDP believe that it would be unthinkable for the Government to revert to the protectionism tendencies whilst at the same time fighting for more openness in international trade. However, we urge the department to ensure the speedy resolution of anti-dumping complaints.

The ACDP supports the Bill.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, South Africa is trying to establish itself as a major global competitor. As competition is stiff, the need to attain a favourable position in the global economy is important. However, we do possess a number of talents and advantages that make achieving an advantageous position in the global market a great possibility. A very important mechanism in attaining this is a planned system of conduct and methods that will assist the process. This Bill aims to outline the conduct for trade and the establishment of the necessary institutions to do so.

The MF notes the importance this Bill places on tariffs and how it aims at correcting and modernising the system in order to increase transparency and scrutiny of tariff policy. This will promote greater responsibility and accountability, not only in this sector but also in other trade sectors in relation to this Bill.

There is a great need to harmonise trade administration and this Bill appears to do so. Global trade administration is constantly changing and being updated. South Africa needs to keep up with, or rather match, these changes, as the Bill seeks to do.

We have commitments to global obligations issued by the World Trade Organisation, the Southern African Development Community and Sacob. There is always an eye watching and we have to maintain the good international relations we have maintained to date. The MF deems these provisions necessary. However, we note the challenges these may pose to South African exporters and with regard to domestic competitiveness among other things. But the MF sees this as our first step.

The MF supports the International Trade Administration Bill.

Mrs F MAHOMED: Chairperson, in the name of God most gracious, most merciful, friends and colleagues, it is important that South Africa’s trade policy must underpin the broader developmental agenda of addressing the legacy of underdevelopment, inequalities and gender marginalisation. Effective trade policies should raise incomes and employment, and manage and regulate the flow of goods in the region and on the rest of the continent. This will subsequently improve the quality and lives of ordinary people.

It is imperative to encourage free and equitable trade between nations, so that developing countries have the opportunities to exploit and beneficiate their own resources to promote their own economic developmental agenda. It needs to be noted that very often the rich resources of the poor South are indiscriminately utilised by the rich North. We need to guard against that. The WTO does not consider dumping to be an illegal practice, but it accepts the importing countries which take action against such countries if this causes injury to the manufacturing industry in the countries of import. This can be addressed by regulating unfair trade practices. The WTO therefore has in place an anti-dumping agreement that sets out the procedural and substantive requirements, and allows governments to act against dumped imports in a manner which would normally be in contravention of the GATT principles of binding tariffs and nondiscrimination.

While we recognise the importance of maintaining and ensuring that our obligations in respect of WTO and SACU commitments are not being neglected, we need to draw effectively on our natural resources and fully exploit our own human resources in order to address the disparity between the ultra- rich and the poorest of the poor.

South Africa is one of the first countries in the world to enact an anti- dumping law, and trade and tariff policies. Its readmission into the international arena confirmed its commitment to competing in the global market according to WTO rules. The Bill will establish a new body, to be known as the International Trade Administration Commission. I will not actually give details, because I think many of our speakers have done that already.

It needs to be noted that effective information dissemination is imperative. South African importers and manufacturers have not the slightest clue of how to use an instrument to address unfair competition. Therefore we welcome the investigation, evaluation and adjudication procedures vested in the commission to disseminate information and to ensure that South Africans are empowered in this regard.

Clause 8(l)(c) in Chapter 3 specifies that the commission should be representative of a broad cross-section of the population of the Republic, including a gender balance. This needs to be applauded. It is clear that the market-related developmental processes do not generally benefit women. The labour of women is a crucial resource for rapid industrialisation. Companies that seek to produce goods for export commodities are still ruthlessly exploiting the labour resources of women as cheap labour. To this day women continue to be relegated to the lower ranks of production and service, which brings the said companies goods for excellent returns from export. It is our hope that women will become more assertive and use their own marketable and manufacturing skills to become exporters themselves, so that an equitable flow of money is realised in that domain.

We need to take pride in the manner in which this Bill is addressing the ever-important issue of empowering women. It is our hope that through this Bill women will be capacitated optimally, so that they can become investigators and inspectors, and take up their rightful place by serving the International Trade Administration Commission, and work towards fundamental change in enhancing our developmental agenda.

Effective trade and tariff policy and reform will promote and improve our competitive skills, both nationally and internationally. It is imperative that we build capacity to enable and empower investigators, vigilant adjudicators and an efficient policing system so that accountability and transparency enhance and promote our economic and developmental goals. At this point I am pleased to say that the new SACU agreement yet to be presented to Parliament for ratification is consistent with our position as a democratic country seeking to build partnerships with our neighbours in the region and on the continent.

The ANC supports this Bill.

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank all colleagues who spoke on this Bill and explained the intricacies thereof in some considerable detail.

If I may, I wish to comment on one or two points that were raised in order to clarify them. As I indicated, we hope that the Southern African Customs Union Agreement will be signed on Monday, 21 October 2002. It would be an historic achievement, and because of its historic nature it has been proposed and agreed to that the heads of state will sign it. I think it is far and away the most advanced form of economic integration on the African continent and, frankly, as a structure, probably rates with any other structure in the world today for its participative dimensions.

The agreement will, of course, then come to this House and I welcome the proposal, which I understand has been made, that we would have hearings on it. I think it would allow for considerable understanding of the benefits of the Customs Union, but also for an understanding of the inevitable tensions between the smaller economies in that union and the larger economy of South Africa.

I would also like to briefly deal with the trade policy clarified here. This is new in our law. I welcome the amendment made by the committees, but I think the intention here is to try to create a much more transparent means of relating policy to administration. This will also allow the economic actors in the economy to be clearer on exactly what it is we are doing. So if one were making an application for tariff protection, one would know that these would be the general criteria on which it was going to be assessed, and make those more transparent.

I think the issues raised by business regarding delays are not without some reality. We were also a degree concerned about that, but I think the tremendous changes in the whole trade policy environment, moving it to a policy-based environment, as opposed to an ad hoc lobbying environment, have meant that the number of applications that come forward now are fewer. I do not believe that this is going to be a major issue, but, as the hon Ben Turok indicated, there is a balance between participation and possible delays, but I think we have struck that balance well.

Further I would just like to say that I do not think that we should stoop to abusing this House and using the modicum of protection it gives to try to slander other human beings. It does not seem to me to be a wise move and certainly does not add any credit to the party that the spokesperson spoke for.

I would like to point out to the hon Bekker that they, as a portfolio committee, wisely suggested that we should distinguish between Cita, Sita and Seta. This resulted in Cita being called Itac, the International Trade and Administration Commission, and I thank him. However, he was a little like me, one step behind in calling it the Cita.

I would like to say to the hon Rhoda that it is a pleasure to hear facts put out by another party. I do think that it is very exciting. When we indicated to the International Investment Council over the weekend that South Africa’s number one export in 2001 was motorcars, it really sent a very different message about what sort of economy we are. Moving from being exporters of gold and diamonds, which is still very strong, to actually saying that our number one export is motorcars, and that the number two export is components of motorcars, talks about a very different economy. I think this is what is happening in our economy and it is very positive.

I indicated to people that if one watches the top twenty exports between South Africa and Germany, they would, word for word, virtually be the same. So what has happened in a very short period of time is a movement from being a primary product exporter to an industrial economy, where we trade with Germany exactly what they trade with us. The relationship that is emerging is something closer to that within the European Union countries.

I think the above is immensely positive for this economy and that is why we are now beginning to see the first signs of our determination to change this economy in rising employment levels in many sectors. This is what we fought for and this is what I believe we will continue to fight for. I thank all parties for supporting the Bill. I believe that it is an improvement and a great step forward in the unification of the African economies. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

             AGRICULTURAL DEBT MANAGEMENT AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

There was no debate.

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 17:17. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                      FRIDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 2002

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Social Development:

 (a)    Annual Financial Statements of the State President Fund,  Social
     Relief Fund, Refugee Relief  Fund  and  the  High  School  Vorentoe
     Disaster Relief Fund for 2001-2002, including the  Reports  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  204-
     2002].


 (b)    Annual Report of the Central Drug Authority for the  year  ended
     30 June 2002.

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Agriculture
 - Vote 24 for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
 the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 124-2002].

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry: (a) Government Notice No 727 published in Government Gazette No 23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires in the open air, the destruction by burning of slash and clearing or maintenance of fire belts by burning and the execution of block burns: Districts of (A) Ermelo, Eerstehoek, Carolina and Waterval- Boven; (B) Piet Retief and Wakkerstroom, tabled in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).

 (b)    Government Notice No 728  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires in  the
     open air, the destruction by  burning  of  slash  and  clearing  or
     maintenance of fire belts by burning and  the  execution  of  block
     burns: Soutpansberg Areas, tabled in terms of the Forest Act,  1984
     (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (c)    Government Notice No 729  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires in  the
     open air, the destruction by  burning  of  slash  and  clearing  or
     maintenance of fire belts by burning and  the  execution  of  block
     burns:  Districts  of  Nelspruit,  White  River,  Pilgrim's   Rest,
     Lydenburg, Belfast, Waterval-Boven, Carolina and Barberton,  tabled
     in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (d)    Government Notice No 730  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires in  the
     open air, the destruction by  burning  of  slash  and  clearing  or
     maintenance of fire belts by burning and  the  execution  of  block
     burns: Kwazulu-Natal, tabled in terms of the Forest Act, 1984  (Act
     No 122 of 1984).


 (e)    Regulation No R 980 published in  Government  Gazette  No  23636
     dated 19 July 2002: Water Services Provider  Contract  Regulations,
     made in terms of the Water  Services  Act,  1997  (Act  No  108  of
     1997).


 (f)    Government Notice No 1047 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23711 dated 8 August 2002: Invitation to  submit  written  comments
     on the proposed National  Water  Services  Strategy,  in  terms  of
     section 5(5)(a)(iii) of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36  of
     1998).


 (g)    Government Notice No 1069 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23721 dated 16 August 2002: Proposal for the establishment  of  the
     Inkomati  Catchment  Management  Agency,  Province  of  Mpumalanga,
     Inkomati Water Management Area, tabled in  terms  of  the  National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (h)    Government Notice No 1074 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23721 dated 16 August 2002: Prohibition on the making of  fires  in
     the  open  air,  the  destruction  by  burning  of  ground   cover,
     including slash, and the execution  of  block  burns:  District  of
     Letaba and Pietersburg, tabled in terms of  the  Forest  Act,  1984
     (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (i)    Government Notice No 1097 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23775 dated 30 August 2002: Proposal for the establishment  of  the
     Inkomati  Catchment  Management  Agency,  Province  of  Mpumalanga,
     Inkomati Water Management Area, tabled in  terms  of  the  National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (j)    Government Notice No 1145 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23798 dated 6 September 2002: North West  Water  Supply  Authority:
     Change of name, made in terms of the Water Services Act, 1997  (Act
     No 108 of 1997).

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Reasons for the Declaration of a State of Disaster in  the  Magisterial
 Districts of Cala, Ugie, Elliot, Indwe and Barkly  East:  Eastern  Cape
 Province, in terms of section 2(4) of the Civil  Protection  Act,  1977
 (Act No 67 of 1977).

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Public Service Commission
 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
 Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 153-2002].

                      MONDAY, 30 SEPTEMBER 2002

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 Annual Report and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Department  of  Home
 Affairs - Vote 4 for 2001-2002, including the Report  of  the  Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 198-2002].

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 (a)    Annual Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  Department  of
     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology  -  Vote  14  for  2001-2002,
     including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the  Financial
     Statements for 2001-2002 and Volume 2 [RP 93-2001].


 (b)    Annual Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  Robben  Island
     Museum for 2001-2002, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 203-2002].


 (c)    Report and Financial Statements of the Afrikaanse Taalmuseum for
     2001-2002.


 (d)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Playhouse  Company
     for 2001-2002.


 (e)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Market Theatre for
     2001-2002.


 (f)    Annual Report of the South African  Blind  Workers  Organisation
     for 2001-2002.


 (g)     Financial  Statements  of  the  South  African  Blind   Workers
     Organisation for 2001-2002.

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Department  of  Public
 Service and Administration -  Vote  10  for  2001-2002,  including  the
 Report of the Auditor-General on the  Financial  Statements  for  2001-
 2002.

1. The Minister of Correctional Services:

 Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements   of   the   Department   of
 Correctional Services - Vote 19 for 2001-2002, including the Report  of
 the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  135-
 2002].

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Annual Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  Department  of  Water
 Affairs and Forestry - Vote 33 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of
 the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  187-
 2002].

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department of  Sport  and
 Recreation - Vote 18 for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 25 September 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 41A - 2002], and endorses the classification of the Bill as a section 75 Bill.

   The Committee wishes to report further, as follows:

   1. The Equality Review Committee, established in terms of section 32 of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000 (Act No. 4 of 2000), must, among others, submit regular reports to the Minister on the operation of the Act, including recommendations on any necessary amendments to the Act to improve its operation. The establishment of the Equality Review Committee was a conscious decision of the Legislature, which was informed by the deliberations of the Ad Hoc Joint Committee on Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Bill. The question has, however, been raised in various quarters about the continued existence and feasibility of the Equality Review Committee due to the financial implications involved, and since Parliament already fulfils an oversight function. The Department is requested to investigate and report back to Parliament, by the end of February 2003, on the feasibility and viability of the Equality Review Committee, bearing in mind the financial and other scarce resources it uses, and to address the matter appropriately, including the introduction of legislation, if necessary. Relevant parties, specifically the South African Human Rights Commission, must be consulted in this regard.

   2. It has come to the Committee’s attention that there is concern that the usual exclusively dichotomous understanding given to the words “sex” and “gender” could carry over into the law and that it could be argued that “intersexual” individuals or those “intersexual” individuals whose gender roles are changed, potentially remain unprotected. The Committee is of the view that the equality clause in the Constitution was never intended to exclude any vulnerable groups, and that it may be necessary to include “intersexuality” by stipulation in the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000, thereby ensuring that the definition of “sex” in law explicitly includes “intersexuality”.

      The Department is requested to investigate this concern and address it in an appropriate manner, including the introduction of appropriate legislation, if necessary. The Department is requested, during its investigation, to consult broadly, including the South African Law Commission, and to report back to Parliament by the end of February 2003.

 Report to be considered.

                      WEDNESDAY, 2 OCTOBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was  introduced  by  the  Minister  of  Arts,
     Culture, Science and Technology  in  the  National  Assembly  on  1
     October 2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)  for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)      Natural  Scientific  Professions  Bill  [B  56   -   2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill  and
          prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in  Government
          Gazette No 23850 of 27 September 2002.]
     The Bill has been referred to  the  Portfolio  Committee  on  Arts,
     Culture, Science and Technology of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the  Appointment  and  Utilisation  of
 Consultants   at   certain   National   Departments   and    Provincial
 Administrations [RP 122-2002].

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the South African Library for
 the Blind for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
 the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Policing,  Private
 Security, Legal, Justice and Correctional Services Sector Education and
 Training Authority for 2001-2002, including the Report of the  Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 108-2002].

                      THURSDAY, 3 OCTOBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the  Minister  for  Justice
     and Constitutional  Development  in  the  National  Assembly  on  3
     October 2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)  for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill [B 57 -  2002]  (National
          Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory  summary  of  Bill  and  prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette  No
          23848 of 18 September 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio  Committee  on  Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Late Submission of Material  Audit
 Evidence Supporting the Financial Statements of Vote 32 - Department of
 Transport and Certain Transport-Related Entities [RP 196-2002].

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Report and Financial Statements of Ntsika Enterprise  Promotion  Agency
 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
 Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 119-2002].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Twenty-Fifth Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, dated 18 September 2002:

   The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having considered the Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Guardians’ Fund (the Fund) for the year ended 31 March 2001 [RP 165-01], and having considered responses to the Committee’s queries by the Director-General: Justice and Constitutional Development and the Managing Director: Masters Business Unit, reports as follows:

   1. Audit opinion

      The Committee noted with concern the Auditor-General’s disclaimer of opinion on the financial audit and the qualified opinion on the compliance audit.

      The Committee recommends that serious attention be paid to all aspects which led to the disclaimer and the qualified opinion, with a view to avoiding such negative audit opinions being expressed by the Auditor-General in future.

   2. Ineffective accounting systems

      The Committee noted with concern that the Auditor-General again reported on the ineffective manual accounting system of the Fund.

      The Committee welcomes the urgent steps being taken to ensure that the ineffective manual accounting system is phased out and that the target date for completion of full computerisation of the Fund is December 2002.

      The Committee recommends that the Department submit a report to it by 15 January 2003, confirming the full and successful computerisation of the Fund.

   3. Trained and skilled staff

      The Committee is concerned about the fact that the Fund is experiencing a critical shortage of skilled and experienced staff.

      The Committee noted that, despite the increased workload, the staff complement could not be increased due to a lack of funds.

      The Committee noted that the Department is giving priority to the appointment of trained and experienced accountants to head the various funds, as well as to filling the post of Financial Director for the Master’s National Office.

      The Committee recommends that the above appointments be made urgently, and that a progress report on the matter be submitted to it by 15 January 2003.

   4. Bank reconciliations

      The Committee is concerned that either no bank reconciliations or only limited reconciliations were performed regarding the current accounts of the various funds.

      The Committee notes the reasons for the failure to do so, welcomes the steps taken to update the reconciliation statements of the various funds, and notes that reconciliations have been brought up to date at several offices.

      The Committee recommends that a progress report be submitted to it by 15 January 2003 regarding those offices where bank reconciliations have not yet been brought up to date.

   5. Disciplinary action

      The Committee noted that the Internal Audit section of the Department was requested to determine the functionality of the various offices, and that a request was made for conducting a forensic audit.

      The Committee further noted that charges were laid with the SAPS, that various criminal charges are being investigated, and that disciplinary action is being taken against those suspected of misconduct and negligence in the execution of their duties.

      The Committee recommends that the Department submits to it by 15 January 2003 a schedule of the various criminal charges being investigated, and the nature of disciplinary action taken, if any, against those suspected of misconduct and/or negligence.

   6. Compliance

      The Committee noted that, due to the manual accounting system, it is difficult to comply with certain provisions of the Administration of Estates Act and the Income Tax Act.

      The Committee further noted that the computerisation of the Fund will in future significantly improve, to the extent that it may even ensure compliance with the relevant provisions of the above-mentioned Acts.

      The Committee recommends that the Department include these compliance aspects in its formal report to the Committee regarding the full and successful computerisation of the Guardians’ Fund.

   7. Hearing

      Having examined the Report of the Auditor-General and having heard the various inputs, the Committee recommends that no hearing be held on the Guardians’ Fund for the year under review.

 Report to be considered.

                       MONDAY, 7 OCTOBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)     The  following  Bills  were  introduced  by  the  Minister   of
     Intelligence in  the  National  Assembly  on  7  October  2002  and
     referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism  (JTM)  for  classification
     in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)      Intelligence  Services  Bill  [B  58  -  2002]   (National
             Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill  and  prior
             notice of its introduction published in Government  Gazette
             No 23828 of 9 September 2002.]


     (ii)    Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill [B  59  -
             2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary  of
             Bill and prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in
             Government Gazette No 23828 of 9 September 2002.]


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 6 October 2002 in terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following  Bills  as  section  75
     Bills:


     (i)     Insolvency Second Amendment Bill [B 53  -  2002]  (National
              Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Administration of Estates Amendment  Bill  [B  54  -  2002]
              (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (iii)    Natural  Scientific  Professions  Bill  [B  56   -   2002]
              (National Assembly - sec 75).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (i)    The following changes have been made to the membership of  Joint
     Committees, viz:


     Budget


     Appointed: Woods, G G; Bekker, H J (Alt).


     Constitutional Review


     Appointed: Smith, P F; Seaton, S A (Alt); Hlengwa, M W (Alt).


     Defence


     Appointed: Middleton, N S; Ferreira, E T (Alt).


     Ethics and Members' Interests


     Appointed: Seaton, S A; Van der Merwe, J H (Alt).


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of  Children,  Youth  and
     Disabled Persons


     Appointed: Mbuyazi, L R; Roopnarain, U (Alt).


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women


     Appointed: Xulu, M; Roopnarain, U (Alt).


 (ii)   The following changes  have  been  made  to  the  membership  of
       Standing Committees, viz:


     Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions


     Appointed: Mpontshane, A M; Bekker, H J (Alt).


     Public Accounts


     Appointed: Vezi, E T; Woods, G G (Alt).
 (iii)  The following changes  have  been  made  to  the  membership  of
       Portfolio Committees, viz:


     Agriculture and Land Affairs


     Appointed: Ngema, M V; Ngubane, H (Alt); Biyela, B P (Alt).


     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology


     Appointed: Cassim, M F; Biyela, B P (Alt).


     Communications


     Appointed: Vos, S C; Rabinowitz, R (Alt).


     Correctional Services


     Appointed: Seaton, S A; Mzizi, M A (Alt).


     Defence


     Appointed: Mncwango, M A; Middleton, N S (Alt).


     Education


     Appointed: Mpontshane, A M; Zulu, N E (Alt).


     Environmental Affairs and Tourism


     Appointed: Mbuyazi, L R; Cassim, M F (Alt).


     Finance


     Appointed: Woods, G G; Bekker, H J (Alt).


     Foreign Affairs


     Appointed: Van der Merwe, J H; Mars, I (Alt).


     Health


     Appointed: Rabinowitz, R; Roopnarain, U (Alt).


     Home Affairs


     Appointed: Zulu, N E; Mars, I (Alt).


     Housing


     Appointed: Douglas, B M; Vos, S C (Alt).


     Justice and Constitutional Development


     Appointed: Mzizi, M A; Van der Merwe, J H (Alt).


     Labour


     Appointed: Middleton, N S; Zulu, N E (Alt).


     Minerals and Energy


     Appointed: Lucas, E J; Middleton, N S (Alt).
     Provincial and Local Government


     Appointed: Smith, P F; Seaton, S A (Alt).


     Public Enterprises


     Appointed: Msomi, M D; Sibiya, M S M (Alt).


     Public Service and Administration


     Appointed: Roopnarain, U; Mpontshane, A M (Alt).


     Public Works


     Appointed: Hlengwa, M W; Douglas, B M (Alt).


     Safety and Security


     Appointed: Ferreira, E T; Xulu, M (Alt).


     Social Development


     Appointed: Mars, I; Ngema, M V (Alt).


     Sport and Recreation


     Appointed: Dhlamini, B W; Lucas, E J (Alt).


     Trade and Industry


     Appointed: Bekker, H J; Slabbert, J H (Alt).


     Transport


     Appointed: Slabbert, J H; Dhlamini, B W (Alt).


     Water Affairs and Forestry


     Appointed: Sibiya, M S M; Ngubane, H (Alt); Biyela, B P (Alt).

1. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Transport:


     Proclamation No R69 published in Government Gazette No 23849  dated
     20 September 2002, Commencement  of  the  National  Railway  Safety
     Regulator Act, 2002 (Act No 16 of 2002), made in terms  of  section
     16 of the National Railway Safety Regulator Act, 2002  (Act  No  16
     of 2002).


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Public Enterprises:


     Report and Financial Statements of Denel (Pty)  Limited  for  2001-
     2002.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Public Service and  Administration.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General is referred to the Standing Committee  on  Public  Accounts
     for consideration and report:


     Report  and  Financial  Statements   of   the   State   Information
     Technology Agency  for  2001-2002,  including  the  Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Insolvency Second Amendment Bill [B 53 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 25 September 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Insolvency Second Amendment Bill [B 53 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 53A - 2002], and endorses the classification of the Bill as a section 75 Bill.

                    FRIDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2002
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President  of  the  Republic  in  respect  of  the
     following Bills:


     Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill [B 15D -  2002]  -
      Act No 28 of 2002 (assented  to  and  signed  by  President  on  3
      October 2002); and


     Export Credit and Foreign Investments Insurance Amendment  Bill  [B
      29B - 2002]  - Act No 34  of  2002  (assented  to  and  signed  by
      President on 1 October 2002).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 10 October 2002 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following  Bills  as  section  75
     Bills:


     (i)     Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B  55  -  2002]  (National
              Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill [B 57 -  2002]  (National
              Assembly - sec 75).


     (iii)    Intelligence  Services  Bill  [B  58  -  2002]   (National
              Assembly - sec 75).


     (iv)    Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill [B  59  -
              2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
 (3)    The following Bill was presented by the Portfolio  Committee  on
     Justice and Constitutional Development  on  11  October  2002  (see
     also under "COMMITTEE REPORTS"):


     (i)     Promotion of Access to Information Amendment Bill [B  60  -
          2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The following Bills that were  introduced  by  the  Minister  of
     Intelligence in the National Assembly on 7 October  2002  have  now
     been referred to the Ad Hoc Committee on Intelligence Legislation:


     (i)      Intelligence  Services  Bill  [B  58  -  2002]   (National
             Assembly - sec 75);


     (ii)    Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill [B  59  -
             2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Special Investigating  Unit  for
 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 2001-2002.

1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Foreign Affairs  -
 Vote 3 for 2001-2002, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General  on
 the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 206-2002].

1. The Minister of Finance:

 Resolutions of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for  2002  and
 replies thereto obtained by the  National  Treasury  -  Second  Report,
 2002.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 55 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 25 September 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 55 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill -

   1. endorses the classification of the Bill as a section 75 Bill; and

   2. presents the Promotion of Access to Information Amendment Bill [B 60 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).

   The Committee wishes to report further, as follows:

   1. The Committee, having taken into account the limited time remaining to deal with draft legislation for the remainder of the 2002 session of Parliament, was of the opinion that it should deal with only one provision of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill, namely that which entails an amendment to the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000 (Act No. 2 of 2000), since the issues involved in that amendment are the same as some of the issues involved in the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2002] and the Promotion of Administrative Justice Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2002], which are being finalised by the Committee on an urgent basis. All the said Bills deal with the designation of presiding officers for purposes of court proceedings arising from the application of the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000, the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act, 2000, and the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000.

   2. The Committee intends finalising the issues remaining in the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill at a later stage, either during the last quarter of the 2002 session of Parliament or, if needs be, during the 2003 session of Parliament, when the issues and principles contained therein can be debated without any time constraints.

Report to be considered.

                       MONDAY, 14 OCTOBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government on 25 September
     2002 submitted a draft  of  the  Local  Government  Laws  Amendment
     Bill, 2002, as well as the memorandum  explaining  the  objects  of
     the proposed legislation, to the Speaker  and  the  Chairperson  in
     terms of Joint Rule  159.  The  draft  has  been  referred  to  the
     Portfolio Committee on Provincial  and  Local  Government  and  the
     Select Committee on Local  Government  and  Administration  by  the
     Speaker and  the  Chairperson,  respectively,  in  accordance  with
     Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)     The  Minister  of  Environmental  Affairs  and  Tourism  on  30
     September 2002 submitted a  draft  of  the  National  Environmental
     Management  Amendment  Bill,  2002,  as  well  as  the   memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the  Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has  been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Environmental  Affairs  and
     Tourism and the Select Committee on Land and Environmental  Affairs
     by the Speaker and the  Chairperson,  respectively,  in  accordance
     with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Provincial
     and Local Government in the National Assembly on  14  October  2002
     and  referred  to   the   Joint   Tagging   Mechanism   (JTM)   for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)      Local  Government  Laws  Amendment  Bill  [B  61  -  2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill  and
          prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in  Government
          Gazette No 23864 of 27 September 2002.]


     The  Bill  has  been  referred  to  the  Portfolio   Committee   on
     Provincial and Local Government of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.


 (4)    The following Bill was introduced by  the  Select  Committee  on
     Land and Environmental Affairs at the request of  the  Minister  of
     Environmental Affairs  and  Tourism  in  the  National  Council  of
     Provinces on 14 October 2002 and  referred  to  the  Joint  Tagging
     Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     National Environmental Management Amendment Bill  [B  62  -
          2002] (National Council of Provinces -  sec  76)  [Explanatory
          summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
          in Government Gazette No 23910 of 4 October 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the  Select  Committee  on  Land  and
     Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.


 (5)    The Minister of Transport submitted  the  Wetsontwerp  op  Suid-
     Afrikaanse Maritieme en  Lugvaart-soek-en-redding  [W  23  -  2002]
     (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson  on
     14 October 2002. This is the official  translation  into  Afrikaans
     of the South African Maritime and Aeronautical  Search  and  Rescue
     Bill [B 23  -  2002]  (National  Assembly  -  sec  75),  which  was
     introduced in the National Assembly  by  the  Minister  on  14  May
     2002.


 (6)    The  Minister  of  Transport  submitted  the  uMthethosivivinywa
     oyisiChibiyelo   wokweNgamela   ukuThathwa   kweziNqumo   ngamaCala
     ezeNdlela [B 42 -  2002]  (National  Assembly  -  sec  76)  to  the
     Speaker and the  Chairperson  on  14  October  2002.  This  is  the
     official   translation   into   isiZulu   of   the   Administrative
     Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill [B 42 -  2002]
     (National Assembly - sec 76), which was introduced in the  National
     Assembly by the Minister on 29 August 2002. National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Finance. The Report of  the  Auditor-General  is  referred  to  the
     Standing  Committee  on  Public  Accounts  for  consideration   and
     report:


     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  South  African
     Revenue Service for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Safety and Security. The Report of the Auditor-General is  referred
     to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration  and
     report:


     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements   of   the   Independent
     Complaints Directorate for 2001-2002, including the Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  149-
     2002].


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Transport:


     Proclamation No R69 published in Government Gazette No 23849  dated
     20 September 2002, Commencement  of  the  National  Railway  Safety
     Regulator Act, 2002 (Act No 16 of 2002), made in terms  of  section
     16 of the National Railway Safety Regulator Act, 2002  (Act  No  16
     of 2002).


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Public Enterprises:


     Report and Financial Statements of Denel (Pty)  Limited  for  2001-
     2002.


 (5)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Public Service and Administration.  The  Reports  of  the  Auditor-
     General is referred to the Standing Committee  on  Public  Accounts
     for consideration and report:


     (a)     Annual Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Department
          of Public Service and Administration - Vote 10 for  2001-2002,
          including the Report of the Auditor-General on  the  Financial
          Statements for 2001-2002.


     (b)     Report and Financial Statements of  the  State  Information
          Technology Agency for 2001-2002, including the Report  of  the
          Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


     (c)     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Public
          Service Commission for 2001-2002, including the Report of  the
          Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002  [RP
          153-2002].


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Social Development. The Report of the Auditor-General  is  referred
     to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration  and
     report:


     Annual Financial Statements of the  State  President  Fund,  Social
     Relief Fund, Refugee Relief  Fund  and  the  High  School  Vorentoe
     Disaster Relief Fund for 2001-2002, including the  Reports  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  204-
     2002].


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Social Development:


     Annual Report of the Central Drug Authority for the year  ended  30
     June 2002.


 (8)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General  is
     referred  to  the  Standing  Committee  on  Public   Accounts   for
     consideration and report:


     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Department  of
     Agriculture - Vote 24 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP  124-
     2002].


 (9)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Water Affairs and Forestry:


     (a)     Government Notice No 727 published  in  Government  Gazette
          No 23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires
          in the open air, the  destruction  by  burning  of  slash  and
          clearing or maintenance of  fire  belts  by  burning  and  the
          execution of block burns: Districts of (A) Ermelo, Eerstehoek,
          Carolina and Waterval-Boven; (B) Piet Retief and Wakkerstroom,
          tabled in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (b)     Government Notice No 728 published  in  Government  Gazette
          No 23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires
          in the open air, the  destruction  by  burning  of  slash  and
          clearing or maintenance of  fire  belts  by  burning  and  the
          execution of block burns: Soutpansberg Areas, tabled in  terms
          of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (c)     Government Notice No 729 published  in  Government  Gazette
          No 23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires
          in the open air, the  destruction  by  burning  of  slash  and
          clearing or maintenance of  fire  belts  by  burning  and  the
          execution of block burns: Districts of Nelspruit, White River,
          Pilgrim's rest, Lydenburg, Belfast,  Waterval-Boven,  Carolina
          and Barberton, tabled in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No
          122 of 1984).


     (d)     Government Notice No 730 published  in  Government  Gazette
          No 23450 dated 31 May 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires
          in the open air, the  destruction  by  burning  of  slash  and
          clearing or maintenance of  fire  belts  by  burning  and  the
          execution of block burns: KwaZulu-Natal, tabled  in  terms  of
          the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (e)     Regulation No R 980  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
          23636 dated 19 July 2002:  Water  Services  Provider  Contract
          Regulations, made in terms of the  Water  Services  Act,  1997
          (Act No 108 of 1997).


     (f)     Government Notice No 1047 published in  Government  Gazette
          No 23711 dated 8 August 2002:  Invitation  to  submit  written
          comments on the proposed National Water Services Strategy,  in
          terms of section 5(5)(a)(iii) of the National Water Act,  1998
          (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (g)     Government Notice No 1069 published in  Government  Gazette
          No 23721 dated 16 August 2002: Proposal for the  establishment
          of the  Inkomati  Catchment  Management  Agency,  Province  of
          Mpumalanga, Inkomati Water Management Area, tabled in terms of
          the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (h)     Government Notice No 1074 published in  Government  Gazette
          No 23721 dated 16 August 2002: Prohibition on  the  making  of
          fires in the open air, the destruction by  burning  of  ground
          cover, including slash, and  the  execution  of  block  burns:
          District of Letaba and Pietersburg, tabled  in  terms  of  the
          Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (i)     Government Notice No 1097 published in  Government  Gazette
          No 23775 dated 30 August 2002: Proposal for the  establishment
          of the  Inkomati  Catchment  Management  Agency,  Province  of
          Mpumalanga, Inkomati Water Management Area, tabled in terms of
          the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (j)     Government Notice No 1145 published in  Government  Gazette
          No 23798 dated 6  September  2002:  North  West  Water  Supply
          Authority: Change of name, made in terms of the Water Services
          Act, 1997 (Act No 108 of 1997).


 (10)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Provincial and Local Government:


     Reasons  for  the  Declaration  of  a  State  of  Disaster  in  the
     Magisterial Districts of  Cala,  Ugie,  Elliot,  Indwe  and  Barkly
     East: Eastern Cape Province, in terms of section 2(4) of the  Civil
     Protection Act, 1977 (Act No 67 of 1977).


 (11)   The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
       Arts, Culture,  Science  and  Technology.  The  Reports  of  the
       Auditor-General is referred to the Standing Committee on  Public
       Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Annual Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Department
          of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology - Vote 14  for  2001-
          2002, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
          Financial Statements for 2001-2002 and Volume 2 [RP 93-2001].


     (b)     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Robben
          Island Museum for  2001-2002,  including  the  Report  of  the
          Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002  [RP
          203-2002].


     (c)      Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  South
          African Library for the Blind  for  2001-2002,  including  the
          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements  for
          2001-2002.


 (12)   The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
       Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:


     (a)      Report  and  Financial  Statements   of   the   Afrikaanse
          Taalmuseum for 2001-2002.


     (b)     Annual Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  Playhouse
          Company for 2001-2002.
     (c)     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Market
          Theatre for 2001-2002.


 (13)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Correctional Services. The  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  is
       referred to  the  Standing  Committee  on  Public  Accounts  for
       consideration and report:


     Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Department  of
     Correctional Services  -  Vote  19  for  2001-2002,  including  the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-
     2002 [RP 135-2002].


 (14)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Water Affairs and Forestry. The Report of the Auditor-General is
       referred to  the  Standing  Committee  on  Public  Accounts  for
       consideration and report:


     Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department  of  Water
     Affairs and Forestry - Vote 33 for 2001-2002, including the  Report
     of the Auditor-General on the Financial  Statements  for  2001-2002
     [RP 187-2002].


 (15)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Sport and Recreation.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  is
       referred to  the  Standing  Committee  on  Public  Accounts  for
       consideration and report:


     Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department  of  Sport
     and Recreation - Vote 18 for 2001-2002,  including  the  Report  of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


 (16)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Public Service and Administration and the Standing Committee  on
       Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the  Appointment  and  Utilisation
     of Consultants  at  certain  National  Departments  and  Provincial
     Administrations [RP 122-2002].


 (17)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Labour, the Portfolio Committee  on  Safety  and  Security,  the
       Portfolio Committee on Justice  and  Constitutional  Development
       and the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services. The Report
       of the Auditor-General is referred to the Standing Committee  on
       Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Annual Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Policing,  Private
     Security,  Legal,  Justice   and   Correctional   Services   Sector
     Education and  Training  Authority  for  2001-2002,  including  the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-
     2002 [RP 108-2002].


 (18)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Transport. The Report of the Auditor-General is referred to  the
       Standing Committee on  Public  Accounts  for  consideration  and
       report:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Late  Submission  of  Material
     Audit Evidence Supporting the Financial Statements  of  Vote  32  -
     Department of Transport and Certain Transport-Related Entities  [RP
     196-2002].


 (19)   The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
       Trade  and  Industry.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  is
       referred to  the  Standing  Committee  on  Public  Accounts  for
       consideration and report:


     Report and Financial  Statements  of  Ntsika  Enterprise  Promotion
     Agency for 2001-2002, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 119-2002].

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the National Film  and  Video
     Foundation for 2001-2002, including  the  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 193-2002].


 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the National Arts Council for
     2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
     Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 202-2002].

                      TUESDAY, 15 OCTOBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Subcommittee of the Joint Programme  Committee  on  15
     October 2002  took  a  decision,  in  accordance  with  Joint  Rule
     216(2), that the National Environmental Management  Amendment  Bill
     [B 62 - 2002] (National Council of Provinces -  sec  76)  be  fast-
     tracked by, where necessary, shortening  any  period  within  which
     any step in the legislative process relating to the  Bill  must  be
     completed, in order to make it possible for the Bill to  be  passed
     by the adjournment of the current Parliamentary session.


     In terms of Joint Rule 216(4) this decision must be tabled in  both
     Houses for ratification.


 (2)      The   Minister   of   Trade   and   Industry   submitted   the
     Wysigingswetsontwerp op Korporatiewe Wette [W 32 - 2002]  (National
     Assembly - sec 75)  to  the  Speaker  and  the  Chairperson  on  15
     October 2002. This is the official translation  into  Afrikaans  of
     the Corporate Laws Amendment Bill [B 32 - 2002] (National  Assembly
     - sec 75), which was introduced in the  National  Assembly  by  the
     Minister on 12 August 2002.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

(a)     The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint
      Committees, viz:
 Ethics and Members' Interests


 Appointed: Lobe, M C; Mabe, L L; Moloi, J; Ntuli, S B.


 Improvement of Quality of  Life  and  Status  of  Children,  Youth  and
 Disabled Persons


 Appointed: Rwexana, S P; Tshwete, P.


 Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women


 Appointed: Mentor, M P  (Alt);  Ratsoma,  M  M;  Rwexana,  S  P  (Alt);
 Tshwete, P (Alt).

(b)     The following changes have  been  made  to  the  membership  of
      Portfolio Committees, viz:


 Agriculture and Land Affairs


 Appointed: Dlali, D M; Zita, L (Alt).
 Discharged: Gogotya, N J.


 Arts, Culture, Science and Technology


 Appointed: Ngcobo, N (Alt).


 Communications


 Appointed: Mutsila, I (Alt).


 Correctional Services


 Appointed: Rwexana, S P (Alt); Sosibo, J E (Alt).


 Defence


 Appointed: Mthethwa, E N; Ngcobo, N (Alt).


 Education


 Appointed: Mentor, M P; Mthembu, B (Alt); Mutsila, I (Alt); Ripinga,  S
 S.


 Health


 Appointed: Tshwete, P.


 Housing


 Appointed: Ratsoma, M M (Alt).


 Minerals and Energy


 Appointed: Ngcobo, N.
 Discharged: Cindi, N V.


 Public Enterprises


 Appointed: Mnandi, P N; Mohlala, R J B; Mpaka, H M.
 Discharged: Phohlela, S; Van Wyk, N.


 Public Works


 Appointed: Cindi, N V.


 Safety and Security


 Appointed: Ratsoma, M M (Alt).
 Social Development


 Appointed: Ramotsamai, C M P; Rwexana, S P; Tshwete, P (Alt).


 Trade and Industry


 Appointed: Mthethwa, E N (Alt); Ntuli, M B; Ripinga, S S (Alt).


 Water Affairs and Forestry


 Appointed: Arendse, J D (Alt).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Report and Financial Statements of the  Department  of  Provincial  and
 Local Government - Vote 5 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the
 Auditor-General on the Financial  Statements  for  2001-2002  [RP  175-
 2002].

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Report and Financial Statements of the South African Sports  Commission
 for 2001-2002, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
 Financial Statements for 2001-2002.