National Assembly - 14 November 2002
THURSDAY, 14 NOVEMBER 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:02.
The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D A A OLIFANT: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that South Africa has been voted one of the top world tourist destinations by the prestigious Conde Nast Traveller magazine and the UK BBC travel programme, Holidays ;
(2) further notes that Cape Town was placed on position five of the ``50 places to see before you die’’ by a BBC programme, Lifestyle Holiday;
(3) believes that this is a display of confidence in our country, its people and its natural heritage, and confirms the correctness of our Government’s policies in preserving the natural environment and working for sustainable development;
(4) further believes that this will attract foreign tourists to the country and will result in more jobs being created; and
(5) welcomes the designation of our country as one of the top tourist destinations in the world. [Applause.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes the fact that the complaint to the Ethics Committee concerning Mrs Winnie Madikizela-Mandela MP was lodged by the Chief Whip of the Opposition on 25 October 2001;
(2) notes further that the report of the Ethics Committee finding the hon member guilty of contravening Parliament’s Code of Conduct was dated 22 August 2002;
(3) notes finally that the hon Winnie Madikizela-Mandela has been absent from the National Assembly for most of this year; and
(4) therefore enquires when the Speaker proposes severely reprimanding the hon member in the House, as the resolution taken yesterday requires.
Mr J H SLABBERT: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) notes with great sadness that, in one of the worst accidents on the province’s roads this year, at least 18 people were burnt beyond recognition when a taxi crashed into the trailer of a truck near Colenso in KwaZulu-Natal on Wednesday, 13 November 2002;
(2) expresses its deepest and sincerest condolences to the families and friends of the deceased; and
(3) realises that the holiday season is fast approaching and therefore urges all the people driving on our roads to take extra care and follow the rules of the road in order to avoid the unnecessary loss of life, especially during this festive season.
Dr B G MBULAWA-HANS: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Royal Danish Government, the European Union, United States Aid for International Development, the United Kingdom’s Department for International Development and the United Nation’s Global Fund provided financial grants to programmes aimed at combating HIV/Aids in South Africa;
(2) believes that donor funding plays a significant role in sustaining programmes aimed at conscientising and mobilising our people to fight the HIV/Aids pandemic;
(3) expresses its appreciation to all donors and other stakeholders who are assisting the Government and the people of South Africa to fight HIV/Aids;
(4) calls on all South Africans to observe World Aids Day and rededicate themselves to fight this disease; and
(5) recognises and thanks the following countries for the support they provide to different aspects of our health system: Japan, …
[Time expired.]
Mr A S VAN DER MERWE: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek namens die Nuwe NP gaan voorstel:
Dat die Huis - (1) sy dank teenoor President Mbeki uitspreek vir die dringende aandag wat hy gee aan die Nuwe NP se vertoë om ondersoek te laat doen na die wanorde wat grondbelastings in die landbou veroorsaak;
(2) sy dank teenoor die Premier van Wes-Kaapland uitspreek omdat hy hierdie aangeleentheid onder die aandag van die President gebring het;
(3) daarvan kennis neem dat die Nuwe NP opnuut vertoë gaan rig vir ‘n moratorium op die instel van ‘n grondbelasting totdat die Wet op Eiendomsbelasting deur die Parlement gevoer is;
(4) die Kabinet versoek om te verseker dat die reëls van die nuwe Wet landwyd en eenvormig toepasbaar sal wees; en
(5) kennis neem van die standpunt van die Katz-kommissie wat grondbelasting as ‘n duur belasting beskou en aanbeveel dat dit in elk geval nie hoër as 1% van die landbouwaarde van die grond behoort te wees nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows)
[Mr A S VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the New NP:
That the House -
(1) conveys its gratitude towards President Mbeki for the urgent attention he is giving to the New NP’s representations to investigate the disorder caused by property taxes in agriculture;
(2) conveys its gratitude to the Premier of the Western Cape for bringing this matter to the attention of the President;
(3) notes that the New NP is going to once again make representations for a moratorium on the introduction of property tax until the law on assessment rates has been conducted by Parliament;
(4) requests that the Cabinet ensures that the rules of the new law are applied uniformly throughout the country;
(5) notes the Katz Commission’s view of property tax as an expensive tax and recommends that it should, in any event, be no more than 1% of the agricultural value of the land.]
Mr T ABRAHAMS: Chairperson, I will move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of this House:
That the House -
(1) recognises that many of the procedures and practices of the South African Parliament as an institution are modelled on those that were in vogue decades ago in the Westminster system;
(2) accepts that, with the passage of time and largely because of rapid advances that have been made in the technological age, many of these customs and conventions have become outmoded and often border on the ridiculous because they are followed in letter but not in spirit;
(3) realises the need for a total re-evaluation to be executed of all the functional elements that collectively constitute Parliament and for methods to be introduced that will modernise its operation and enhance its efficiency and encourage true and coherent debate; and
(4) calls upon the powers-that-be to appoint a task team to undertake this evaluation and to consider proposals … [Time expired.]
Mr M S MANIE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that, as from 1 April 2003, domestic and agricultural workers will be covered by the Unemployment Insurance Fund;
(2) believes that this is a demonstration of the commitment of the ANC Government to the protection of the most vulnerable workers in our country, that is, the domestic workers and farmworkers;
(3) further believes that this is a reflection of this Government’s unwavering resolve towards establishing a national social security system designed to meet the needs of workers in both formal and informal sectors; and
(4) welcomes the announcement by the Government to cover domestic and farmworkers within the ambit of the Unemployment Insurance Fund. [Applause.]
Adv Z L MADASA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the House -
(1) congratulates the SA Police Service for the arrest of twelve men implicated in a cash-in-transit heist at Saaiplaas in Limpopo in the afternoon of the same day of the robbery;
(2) also congratulates the member of the public who tipped off the police about the robbery;
(3) notes that three people were killed during the robbery, including a teenage boy who was riding a bicycle;
(4) notes also that six bags of money and six stolen vehicles were recovered; and
(5) encourages members of the public to continue to assist the police to deal with these kinds of crime.
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:
That the House -
(1) notes with dismay the extent to which some formerly white and privileged schools continue to spurn all efforts relating to goodwill and reconciliation;
(2) also notes that -
(a) the ink had hardly dried on Judge Eberhardt Bertelsman's writing
pad to the effect that Laerskool Middleburg in Mpumalanga should
use English as another medium of instruction;
(b) similar contempt against the Education Ministry's ambition to
promote multilingualism was displayed by the Danie Malan Primary
School in Pretoria North when they ran a parent's meeting
programme in Afrikaans only and went on to announce that the
school will admit only Afrikaans-speaking learners next year;
and
(c) this is a clear effort to exclude other racial groups from this
public school; and
(3) calls on the Ministry of Education to word the language policy framework so clearly that it is unambiguous in so far as the use of all languages is concerned.
Ms L M T XINGWANA: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that South Africa will be part of a worldwide campaign of 16 days of activism for no violence against women and children;
(2) further notes that this campaign -
(a) aims to raise awareness and mobilise society to fight the
scourge of women and child abuse; and
(b) will be driven under the theme ``South Africa united in fighting
violence against women and children";
(3) believes that -
(a) women and child abuse practices are a violation of human rights;
and
(b) all our people need to be consistently conscientised and
mobilised to fight against this barbaric and inhuman behaviour;
and
(4) calls on all South Africans to join the campaign of 16 days of activism for no violence against women and children.
[Applause.]
Moh B N SONO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice, that I shall move:
Gore Ntlo -
(1) e lemoge gore -
(a) palo e e kana ka 45% ya Ma-Aforika Borwa e tshela ka R20 ka
letsatsi;
(b) bana ka kakaretso ga ba fepiwe ka tshwanelo; le gore
(c) go a makatsa go utlwa Mopresidente Thabo Mbeki a re tlala e a
fokotsega.
(2) e amogele tshitshinyo ya DP ya gore -
(a) bahumanegi ba thusiwe ka madi a a kana ka R110 ka kgwedi go ka
fokotsa lehuma ka 74%;
(b) kgato eo e ka thusa diketekete tsa batho ba rona; le gore
(c) Puso ya ANC e sekaseke tlhagiso ya DP ya gore bahumanegi ba newe
Kabelo ya Lotseno la Motheo kgotsa Basic Income Grant. (Translation of Setswana notice of motion follows)
[Mrs B N SONO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice, that I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) about 45% of South Africans live on R20 per day;
(b) on average children are not well fed; and
(c) it is therefore surprising to hear President Thabo Mbeki saying
that hunger is on the decrease.
(2) accepts the DP’s suggestion that -
(a) the poor be given R110 per month to decrease the levels of
poverty by 74%;
(b) such a step would help thousands of our people; and
(c) the ANC Government consider the DP's proposal that the poor be
given a basic income grant.]
Mr E T FERREIRA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that a gang of con artists, posing as employees of a finance house and using forged documentation to get the dealers to release their vehicles to them, have defrauded a Newcastle car dealership of seven trucks valued at nearly R6 million; (2) further notes that this gang also tried to defraud dealers in other parts of the country;
(3) urges all motor vehicle dealerships to take care and to ensure that the correct documentation and proper procedures are followed when releasing vehicles, so as to protect themselves from these criminals; and
(4) hopes that these con artists will be arrested shortly.
Mrs C I LUDWABE: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the African National Congress will hold its 51st National Conference from 16 - 20 December 2002 in Stellenbosch;
(2) further notes that the ANC will review progress made and obstacles encountered in the historic road towards the attainment of the noble objectives of a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa;
(3) believes that the ANC continues to pledge in solemnity its commitment to serving the people of South Africa;
(4) further believes that the ANC will at this coming 51st Congress -
(a) adopt policies that will improve the lives of all our people;
and
(b) rededicate itself to fighting and never giving up until all our
people live in a country that is free ...
[Time expired.]
Mr J DURAND: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behold of the New NP:
That the House -
(1) notes the response of Gauteng Premier Shilowa with regard to DA legislator Shelley Loe’s statements on the Soweto bombings by accusing her of having a callous disregard for the bomb attacks and their impact on black people;
(2) further notes that Shelley Loe had suggested that the police should not prioritise their investigation into the bomb attacks, because criminals are causing more murder and mayhem than pockets of loonies could hope to do;
(3) expresses its shock in the covert manner in which the DA wants to downplay the seriousness of the bombings; and
(4) demands that the hon Leon and the DA come clean, suspend Shelley Loe and take disciplinary action against her.
[Applause.]
Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) on the eve of the holiday season, expresses its concern that the authorities’ predominant emphasis on combating speeding has led to a neglect of other factors that lead to road accidents;
(2) notes that the Minister of Transport has recently admitted that -
(a) in a period of 12 months ending March this year, 27 654
pedestrians were involved in road accidents, leading to 2 124
fatalities and a further 8 417 seriously injured; and
(b) last year 23 775 accidents were caused by vehicles colliding
with stationary vehicles;
(3) recognises that these figures point to the need for more active and targeted policing; and
(4) urges all South Africans to drive safely and responsibly during this holiday season.
ROAD SAFETY
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that eighteen people were burnt to death when a minibus taxi collided with a truck between Colenso and Estcourt in KwaZulu-Natal yesterday;
(2) expresses its condolences to the families of the deceased;
(3) calls on the authorities to investigate the cause of the accident; and
(4) calls on all road users to -
(a) observe all road safety regulations; and
(b) heed the Arrive Alive campaign this festive season.
Agreed to.
BILL NOT TO LAPSE AT END OF SITTING
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That, notwithstanding Rule 298, the Anti-Personnel Mines Prohibition Bill [B 44B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), shall not lapse at the end of the last sitting day of the annual session of 2002.
Agreed to.
REMUNERATION PACKAGE OF THE PRESIDENT OF REPUBLIC
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP: Deputy Chairperson, I move the Motion as it stands on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip:
That the House -
(1) notes the recommendation contained in Clause 5.2 of the Annual Review 2002 of the Independent Commission on the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers (Goldstone Commission) with regard to the total remuneration package to be paid to the President of the Republic of South Africa; and
(2) resolves that -
(a) in terms of section 2(1) of the Remuneration of Public Office
Bearers Act, 1998 (Act No 20 of 1998), and having due regard to
the criteria listed in that subsection, the salary and
allowances payable to the President of the Republic be
determined at seven hundred and thirty-eight thousand two
hundred and sixty-four rand (R738 264) and one hundred and
eighty-four thousand five hundred and sixty-six rand (R184 566)
per annum, respectively, with effect from 1 April 2002; and
(b) in terms of section 2(2) of the said Act, the amount of forty
thousand rand (R40 000) per annum be determined as that portion
of the remuneration of the President to which section 8(1)(d) of
the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962) shall apply.
Agreed to.
COMPOSITION OF JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS' INTERESTS
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move the resolution as it stands in the name of the Chief Whip:
That, subject to the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, Joint Rule 122(1) on the composition of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests be replaced with the following:
122(1) The Joint Committee consists of 18 Assembly members and 9
Council members.
Agreed to.
PROGRESS IN TRANSFORMATION AND RESTRUCTURING OF PUBLIC SERVICE
(Statement)
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, and members of this House, as this parliamentary year draws to a close, I deemed it important to make a brief statement on the progress that we are making in the transformation and restructuring of the Public Service, particularly looking at the restructuring of our departments at national and provincial level. Today is an opportunity for all members of Parliament to reflect on the progress and also on the challenges in this process.
As members will recall, on 13 June 2002, we obtained a majority agreement with our labour partners on a framework that would guide the transformation and restructuring of the Public Service. This agreement was a major achievement in our endeavours to put the spirit of Batho Pele people first into action.
The signing of the agreement signalled a joint resolve by both employer and employee parties to give effect to our Constitution, which requires of us to deliver services in a people-oriented way and to maximise the resources that are at the disposal of the state. It is important to remind ourselves of the purpose of this entire restructuring process, so that we do not look at it outside of its proper context.
The restructuring exercise is part of our broader efforts of building the capacity of the state to play a developmental role to ensure that we build a state focused on nation-building in economic, social and political terms.
We as a democratic Government have made it clear, since 1994, that the Public Service inherited by this Government was, both in orientation and organisation, not geared towards playing this role. Instead, it was structured to entrench racial and ethnic divides and to further sustain apartheid inequities. In addition, as the Presidential Review Commission points out, it was a public service that was created and managed largely for, and I quote:
… purposes of regulation, control and constraint, and not for those of community empowerment and development.
It had a lot of serious deficiencies, but these were hidden because there was no commitment to equity, efficiency, effectiveness, accountability and transparency.
This was the Public Service we inherited, and we were mandated to build a single effective team out of this, a team of public servants that would put people first. It is against this background that soon after coming into office, this Government prioritised the transformation of the Public Service, starting with the amalgamation and rationalisation of former public service establishments into one entity.
I think we should remind ourselves that the Constitution did not mandate us only to create a single Public Service but also mandated us to create one that has a developmental orientation.
Much of the research done on developmental states underscore the importance of building sound capabilities, because we must ensure that a developmental state does not remain a political dream. Experience shows that these capabilities do not come as gifts inherited from the past but, instead, are consciously created and developed. As Thandika Mkandawire of the United Nations Research for Social Development reminds us in addressing this situation, and I quote:
… the way forward does not lie in the wholesale neglect of existing capacities in the quest for new ones, but in the utilisation, retooling and reinvigorating of existing capacities.
This is exactly what our current restructuring of the Public Service is about. It is not about the wholesale neglect of what exists or mass retrenchments. Instead, it is about ensuring that there is a better utilisation of our human resources in order for it to deliver on the priorities of Government and that we have the right skilled people in the right places in the Public Service. We have existing capacities that need to be better utilised and reinvigorated, and that is the process we embarked on.
The agreement signed with organised labour recognises the need for each department to have a clear focus on the strategic objectives that it wants to achieve, and to have the structures, processes, systems and resources that are required to turn their aims and objectives into reality. We all know that most departments have excellent plans, but the difficulties often arise during the implementation process.
Some of the challenges that we have identified in our surveys are that certain departments have disproportional institutional capacity in urban areas, but lack capacity in rural areas. Others tend to perform functions that are not core to their mandates, or have inappropriately skilled officials, or have them deployed in the wrong places or positions.
To deal with these diverse challenges, the framework agreement, first of all, confirms that departments should have strategic plans in place; that these plans should inform their organisational structures, and that posts should be defined through proper job descriptions and that these should determine the competencies of required employees. After a process of job matching has taken place, departments are required to deal with skills mismatches, through strategies such as retraining and redeployment.
Mechanisms and structures have been put in place to give effect to these principles. Departmental and interdepartmental task teams are key to these processes, and they consist of representatives from both labour and management to ensure that due process is followed.
However, there are certain problems and I am going to reflect on that quite candidly this afternoon. The reports that we are getting from departments show that there are serious challenges around the implementation of the agreement.
The strategic plans of some departments are simply too weak to draw conclusions on their human resource requirements. In other cases, departments have not been able to conduct a proper assessment of the human resources that they have at their disposal or decide on the nature of changes that are required.
Some managers in the Public Service are clearly not equipped to conduct reviews of the way in which they deliver services and how this can be improved.
Now, we as the executive will have to monitor closely the different levels of government to see if, indeed, there are managers who are not competent to fulfil their responsibility in terms of the Public Finance Management Act and the Public Service Act. If this exercise exposes weakness in this area, we will take corrective measures, which in itself will be to the benefit of a more effective Public Service.
When it comes to the human resource implications of organisational change, there is a particular reluctance to address problem areas. Some managers tend to think that it is somebody else’s responsibility to review whether they have the right employees with the right skills to deliver services effectively.
I want to state upfront that we had intended to be further than we are right now. Although most departments have established their oversight structures, they should by now have completed the matching and placement of excess personnel. This is still in progress.
Another source of concern is that certain managers do not seem to appreciate the necessity of minimising job losses during the restructuring process. I have issued a directive clearly stating that nonspecialised positions may not be advertised in the open labour market while there might be excess employees who could be absorbed into these positions.
Yet we continue to see adverts for secretaries and other support personnel in newspapers. Intransigent managers must not be surprised if unions challenge them when they violate the agreement, neither should they be startled when their Ministers challenge them for violating this agreement, because members of the executive are overseeing this restructuring process very closely.
I also want to state that, in the executive, we see this as an opportunity to identify those public servants who have gone by as the unsung public servants who are doing more work, but have not been acknowledged. We would like to see a process in which they are acknowledged and brought to positions in which they should serve in the Public Service. [Applause.]
Therefore, restructuring is about ensuring that we acknowledge those who have been unacknowledged, that we have a correct structure in place for the Public Service, and that we build the developmental state that we have shown a commitment to, and that we make this a reality.
Despite the challenges that I have mentioned, at least we now have a framework in place that allows departments to fundamentally review their organisational architecture and staffing requirements. Towards the end of this financial year, we should be in a position to indicate how many excess public servants were successfully redeployed and retrained.
In general, public servants can rest assured that there are many employment opportunities. They should also note that we do want to prioritise our rural areas by taking people out there in order to make our service extensions actually function and service delivery effective in those areas. They should also note that we are doing our very best to give them preference in filling these positions.
However, from their side, public servants need to be prepared to also make sacrifices. Generous relocation privileges that will ease the process are in place. I think it should further be noted by public servants that they should be conscious of the provision in the agreement that reasonable redeployment offers may not be refused. Our labour partners are in agreement that public servants who decline such offers will be deemed to have resigned from the Public Service.
Perhaps it is important that, as I conclude, we should remind ourselves that the 1994 White Paper on Reconstruction and Development proclaimed, and I quote:
South Africa has begun, for the first time in its history, to undertake the task of equitable development of life opportunities of all its citizens. It has a unique opportunity at this time to transform the means and the methods through which its social goals are to be achieved. If we are a truly developmental state, a state that leads in the transformation of our nation, we must ensure that we have the right skills in the right places. We need to know where and what our shortcomings are, and this should not be based on anecdotal evidence. The Public Service has an opportunity to transform the means and methods through which services are delivered. We need to seize this opportunity, and politically, we would say we should seize the moment.
I would like to urge all role-players and stakeholders in the Public Service to give their full co-operation in ensuring a smooth implementation process, because failure to do so may stall the process and this could result in our not being able to achieve our goals.
Government views the Public Service as a national asset, and we see public servants as the key instrument in building a better life for all. Let us be united in our vision of building a strong developmental state in which the interests of those being served truly come first. We should take on this challenge as we have taken on challenges in the past, the big challenge, as I have said, being that of building the developmental state. In thanking this House for this opportunity, I would like to wish all members of Parliament and of the Public Service well. During this period of Ramadaan and fasting, I wish to say to those concerned that we all support them. I also wish all those who are still going to celebrate other religious festivities well too. [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the restructuring of the Public Service will allow Government a golden opportunity to modernise the Public Service into an efficient service delivery machine.
The Democratic Alliance has stated several times in this House that the introduction of sector pay increases, the scrapping of the central bargaining chamber and the implementation of performance increases to reward hard-working public servants would contribute to a more professional and modern Public Service. However, one principle the Minister failed to mention in her speech was that of ethics within the Public Service or, in some cases, the lack of it.
The non-compliance with regulations is rife and the Minister has highlighted an example where advertising for posts is still continuing despite a moratorium. Another case in point is that of the recording of sick leave. A report recently released by the Public Service Commission not only highlighted the lack of sick leave being captured but also the cost of sick leave to the taxpayer. The cost for sick leave for the period of October 1999 to September 2000 was R631 million.
However, the accuracy of data captured by provinces such as the Eastern Cape, Mpumalanga and Limpopo were unreliable when compared to other provinces. According to the data, only 2,7% of public servants in the Eastern Cape took sick leave, while the figures in other provinces range between 27% and 90%. The report goes further by stating that, and I quote:``According to the estimate of Persal, the state’s liability in terms of unrecorded leave amounts to R20 billion’’. The figure was arrived at through an investigation conducted by Persal during which departments had to confirm the amount of leave not captured. It is twenty billion, Chairperson, not twenty million.
What an appalling waste of money money that could have helped those in need, particularly those who are actually dying of starvation, by paying a basic income grant whereby all South Africans earning below R7 500 per annum would receive R110 per month under a Democratic Alliance government. [Interjections.] While the DA recognises that a new leave dispensation was introduced to the Public Service in July 2000, we are concerned that this is not being implemented properly due to the lack of training, in particular, of line managers.
Therefore, the DA suggests the following: Any public servant who takes sick leave must produce a doctor’s certificate in certain circumstances, such as when sick leave is taken on a Friday or a Monday; the introduction of penalties for public servants found to be abusing sick leave; regular audits of sick leave patterns; that the public sector agrees and adopts a standard measurement of sickness absence in order to collect information that is reliable and fits the recording definitions required; that line managers establish an agreed time on the first day of illness by which employees should make contact with them, and that line managers be trained on how to handle sick leave, including the capturing of information, maintaining frequent contact and back-to-work interviews. It would be well worth the investment of a couple of million rand to train line managers properly than to pour another twenty billion down the drain.
Another point of concern for the DA is that of the Public Service Commission. While it receives a budget of R54 million, it lacks the teeth needed to enforce the reams of regulations the hon Minister’s department produces. A case in point is that of the asset register of senior managers and the verification of qualifications. The DA would like to see the following happen with the Public Service Commission: That the Commission be funded independently through the Speaker of the House and not the Public Service Administration Ministry. This would allow the Commission more independence. The powers of the Commission should be reviewed in order to justify its budget of R54 million, and the salaries of the 14 commissioners and the nine provincial officers should also be reviewed.
The DA appreciates that the restructuring of the Public Service is not an easy task and one sincerely hopes that the Government’s plans to modernise its administration will stand the test of time. I would like to congratulate the Minister and her department on being the first department to produce an annual report in CD format, thus saving the taxpayer thousands of rands. [Applause.]
Prince N E ZULU: Chairperson and hon members, the Department of Public Service and Administration is on track in terms of its aims and objectives in areas of transformation and corporate management. Although employment equity targets could not be met as set out, the progress made is impressive and is a signpost of success. That the department’s performance record went beyond policy imperatives in the year under review is a matter to write home about and, at the same time, it poses a challenge to other state departments.
The improvements in service delivery has been achieved as a result of partnerships and healthy interaction with stakeholders relevant to public service and administration in national and provincial spheres of Government.
``Batho Pele’’ continues to be a call in the department, and it is hoped that internal consulting services in the establishment will go a long way towards alleviating conditions responsible for underspending in some of the departments. The introduction of laptops will enhance performance to a great measure because officers will no longer be confined to their office computers but will be able to work in any convenient environment with their portable laptops.
The Minister has elaborated on the restructuring plan in the department, and it is hoped that the implementation aspect of the plan will not inhibit performance and efficiency in other departments. It is commendable that the Eastern Cape and the Limpopo Provinces are high on the agenda for restructuring in some of their operations.
Indeed, the IFP supports the Minister’s restructuring plan with the hope that the unions with which the Minister has negotiated and agreed upon the plan will not cause hiccups during the implementation phase. Yes, the plan encapsulates retraining and redeployment of staff to new departments, new environments, new work ethics and new opportunities. It is envisaged that such redeployment will enhance employment opportunities in rural areas and we ask that the Minister live up to this promise.
The Minister is quite correct in saying that ``right skills must be employed in their right places’’. When this is done correctly, the escalating scourge of the braindrain from South Africa to Europe may be curbed and the civil service will be stable once more. God help the Department.
Mnr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Geagte Voorsitter, in die Suid-Afrika van vandag is daar twee groepe mense: dié wat opreg ten gunste is van transformasie, en dié wat teen transformasie is. Daar is dié van ons, soos die Nuwe NP, wat sê indien jy Suid-Afrika wil maak werk, moet jy jou deel bydra tot die proses van herstrukturering, moet jy versiende genoeg wees om te besef dat jy nie, soos die DP en die VF, krampagtig kan vasklou aan dit wat jy dink net aan jou behoort nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Jy het die keuse om, soos die DP en die VF, in jou hoogheilige laer van selfvoldaanheid en selfsugtigheid te bly sit, en uiteindelik verteer te word in jou eie grootheidswaan, waarin jy die regte van ander mense misken en sodoende die regte van jou eie mense vernietig. Jy het die keuse om soos die DP, met fotosessies en goedkoop ``spin doctoring’’, die illusie te skep dat jy omgee terwyl jy weet dat jou gemaakte besorgdheid net daarop gemik is om jou eie saak te bevorder.
Jy kan, soos die VF, die groep van 63 se dade van terreur probeer regverdig, en in die proses vir jou die verwaande reg aanmatig om namens alle Afrikaners te praat. [Tussenwerpsels.] Aan die VF en die groep van 63 sê die Nuwe NP vanmiddag: ons sal nie toelaat dat julle hierdie drogbeeld van Afrikaners as mense wat nie tuis voel in Suid-Afrika die wêreld instuur nie. As julle nie deel wil wees hiervan nie, is dit julle saak.
Aan die ander kant vind jy die Nuwe NP wat sê, kom ons maak Suid-Afrika werk deur konstruktiewe betrokkenheid, sodat die Staatsdiens en die land so herstruktureer kan word dat alle Suid-Afrikaners, swart, wit, bruin, en Indiër, hierby baat sal vind. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Hon Chairperson, in the South Africa of today there are two groups of people: those who are truly in favour of transformation and those who are against transformation. There are those, like the New NP, who say that if one wants to make South Africa work, one must make a contribution to the process of restructuring, one must be far- sighted enough to realise that one cannot, like the DP and FF, desperately cling to that which one thinks belongs just to one.
One has the choice to, like the DP and the FF, stay put in one’s sacrosanct laager of self-righteousness and selfishness, finally to be consumed by one’s own delusions of grandeur, in which one disregards the rights of other people and in so doing destroys the rights of one’s own people. One has the choice to create, like the DP, with photo sessions and cheap ``spin doctoring’’, the illusion that one cares, while one knows that one’s feigned concern is only aimed at advancing one’s own cause.
One can, like the FF, try to justify the group of 63’s deeds of terror, and in the process usurp for oneself the presumptuous right to speak on behalf of all Afrikaners. [Interjections.] To the FF and the group of 63, the New NP says this afternoon that we will not allow them to send this twisted image of Afrikaners as people who do not feel at home in South Africa into the world. If they do not want to be part of this, it is their business.
On the other side one finds the New NP, which says: Let us make South Africa work through constructive engagement, so that the Public Service and the country can be restructured in a way that all South Africans: black, white, brown and Indian can derive benefit from this.]
The need for co-operation in the process of restructuring South Africa as a whole was emphasised by the Premier of the Eastern Cape at the ANC Provincial Conference in Port Elizabeth this weekend, and I quote: ``To work with the New NP is the right thing thing to do and we believe in it’’. It is important to recognise that while the ANC and the New NP recently emerged from a situation of conflict, this struggle was never against the people of the National Party. It was a struggle against the philosophy of governing the country to the exclusion of the majority of its citizens. The battle is now over, and we have no choice but to stand together and build our country and our province into a nonracial community. [Applause.]
Today, the Minister gave Parliament an honest insight into the challenges that lie ahead during this restructuring process. I want to thank the Minister for her honesty and frankness in dealing with this matter. The New NP is committed to the process. We believe that politicians and public servants should stand together and share the same vision in delivering services to South Africans and improving the quality of life of everybody in this country. [Applause.]
Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairperson, since its inception, the UDM has consistently drawn attention to poor service delivery in a variety of departments. It has focused attention on deficiencies that arose in particular departments due to a lack of commitment, efficiency, accountability and drive among public servants.
Despite the availability of the services provided by the SA Management Development Institute, the failure to put the people first, as displayed by many a public servant, has often been traced to managerial incompetence. Government itself has, in the past, recognised this weakness and it is refreshing to note that the hon the Minister makes specific reference to it in her statement. The UDM welcomes the intention to monitor the functioning of managers in the various departments closely and, more importantly, to take corrective steps where managers are found to be incompetent in fulfilling their responsibilities in terms of the Public Services Act and the PFMA.
In equal measure, the acknowledgement of those who excel is seen as a positive step by the UDM. The move towards a more equitable distribution of public servants between urban and rural areas is also supported by the UDM. It needs to be pointed out, though, that there is a need to guard against the danger of uncommitted and incompetent public servants being imposed on the rural areas merely to cut excesses where they occur. While the UDM welcomes the progressive move towards qualitative improvement of the Public Service, it cautions against the danger of conflating downsizing with transformation. A reduction in numbers does not necessarily equal improvement of service.
The UDM expresses the hope that the framework arrived at between the department and labour will be respected by both institutions and that the Minister will ensure that it will be upheld throughout its implementation. It is vital that the types of disputes that arose between Government and labour in the restructuring of state assets are avoided.
Finally, I wish all public servants well over the coming holidays and, similarly, to our colleagues in this House.
Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairperson, the hon the Minister has said that the purpose of the restructuring is to build the capacity of the state and to deliver services and enhance the developmental nature of the state. I would like to say that Batho Pele is not only about the clients of the state but about the workers as well.
I would like to pose the question to the Minister whether the climate is suitable for restructuring, because the net result will be some job losses. I suggest that we place a moratorium not on the restructuring itself but on the implementation of it because of poverty and the levels of unemployment. However, in view of the fact that the hon the Minister has struck a deal with the unions, who are the better spokesmen for the workers, I therefore do not want to spoil the party. We will support the Minister with those reservations.
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, while there is substance in the new Public Service having found employees who did not match their postings, it is equally true that a good number of public servants who were appointed post- 1994 are equally without the necessary skills. Some were appointed as reward for their role in the struggle and not in the service. Most of those who have been discovered to have forged their qualifications are those who were appointed post-1994.
There is, however, welcome merit in having to define posts through proper job descriptions. There is also merit in mounting efforts to retrain those who will be found wanting in their jobs.
We appreciate the fact that the Department of Public Service and Administration has come to realise that some managers in their employ are placeholders and will be dealt with in terms of the Public Finance Management Act. We hope this will be done without any fear or favour, as this is the spirit of the Act.
Finally, we appreciate that the department has done a thorough analysis of the Public Service and pledge to support all efforts that are calculated to deliver a clean, mean and lean Public Service.
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Public Service delivery has increased tremendously since the placement of democratic government. The challenge to alleviate poverty and put in place a public service for better living conditions for the majority has been cumbersome. The Government’s method of not taking excessive loans to impress on service delivery is the correct approach. The servicing of the massive debt hinders the Government’s genuine attempt to ensure job creation through service delivery.
However, the general public at large has to be aware of the difficulties faced by the Government so as to ensure that the negative attitudes and vibes about Government’s failure thus far to deliver can to be addressed. Much more exposure is needed on the positive things happening in the country, and particularly within this department, as well as the reasons for the negative aspects.
The Minority Front applauds the department and the Minister for promising service delivery and we wish them well in the restructuring of the Public Service.
Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, ons dank die agb Minister dat ons haar verklaring voortydig gekry het sodat ons daarop kan antwoord en nie net politiek maak nie.
Die AEB waardeer die agb Minister se fokus op dienslewering en nie ‘n lompe burokrasie nie. Dit lyk ook of daar ‘n mate van realisme en soberheid ingetree het in terme van herstrukturering, soos blyk uit die agb Minister se standpunt dat bestaande mannekrag nie afgelê nie, maar beter aangewend gaan word. Ons waardeer dit.
Die AEB stem ook saam dat mooi plannetjies nie genoeg is nie, maar eerder praktiese dienslewering, want ``the proof of the pudding is in the eating’’. Dit is juis die klag wat ons daagliks kry, oor die onbekwaamheid en ondoeltreffendheid daar waar ons in die tou voor die toonbank staan. Daar is een groot slang in die gras. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Chairman, we thank the hon Minister that we got her statement timeously so that we can respond to it and not merely make politics.
The AEB appreciates the hon Minister’s focus on service delivery and not a mere clumsy bureaucracy. It also looks as if there is some measure of realism and austerity in terms of restructuring, as is evident from the Minister’s statement that existing manpower will not be retrenched, but utilised elsewhere. We appreciate that.
The AEB also agrees that nice little plans are not enough, but rather practical service delivery, since the proof of the pudding is in the eating. That is the complaint that we get on a daily basis, namely about the lack of skills and the inefficiency where we have to queue before the counter. There is a big snake in the grass.]
The hon the Minister has said that public servants who decline reasonable redeployment offers will be deemed to have resigned. Reasonable is a very subjective concept. She must please answer this question. If a civil servant in Pretoria with school-going children and a wife or husband who works at a local company declines a transfer to Pafuri, will that be regarded as a reasonable offer rejected? Will the courts eventually have to decide on this? Will the hon the Minister please answer this question?
We thank the hon the Minister and we support her declaration.
An HON MEMBER: Where is Pafuri?
Mr C AUCAMP: Pafuri? Come with me and I will show you. It is in my province. [Interjections.] Mr P J GOMOMO: Chairperson, it has always been a reality that the Public Service’s transformation agenda would have to be characterised by several sets of options, one of which is restructuring. I choose to state that restructuring means structuring anew, which means tampering with any given problematic order of things, guided to turn around a problematic situation until it takes on the configuration of a solution.
In this context, the question that we should not shy away from as we deal with the restructuring topic is: How much of a problem is the current state of the Public Service? It is problematic in the sense that it is founded on an incorrect basis, namely, that of a disintegrating culture of service delivery, born out of an arrangement to service this country as a pocket of geographic divisions based on race and ethnicity, and anchored by a recruitment strategy based on compliance and patronage rather than on meritable skills.
It is problematic because the impact of its historic origin creates an uneven distribution of human resources. One will find an overconcentration of people with certain skills in some parts of the country while one has a damning scarcity of such resources in the other parts of the same country.
It is problematic because more often than not one finds that, even after the rationalisation process, policy implementation is the weakest, and clearly because of structural problems. The problem with the state of the Public Service today is not the workers, and it is not correct to suggest that, as we restructure, our aim is to deal with the workers or to retrench them. In fact, this is a narrow, ill-informed and mischievous conclusion.
The ANC views the Government’s restructuring agenda as being all about the reorganisation of the Public Service to inculcate a culture of service in an arrangement where there will be equitable distribution of human resources. This state of affairs should suffice to dispel the notion that the Government’s restructuring agenda is all about retrenchment.
Even in unlikely situations where interventions such as retraining and redeployment may not be applicable in dealing with the particular circumstances, Government talks about alternative employment of the workers who may find themselves in such situations. What members of this House should be doing is to monitor and perform their oversight role regarding the successful implementation of the option of alternative employment, which is a new option.
What is even encouraging is that the final steps of the restructuring process are preceded by departmental personnel audits, which will give a picture of each department. Such a step should be hailed as a fair arrangement, as people can only reorganise what they know.
The ANC has always advocated the betterment of the lives of all, workers included. It is unthinkable that parties that do not have a history of the slightest commitment to such beliefs might say today that the ANC-led Government is hellbent on implementing a blanket retrenchment agenda. This indeed is mischievous behaviour.
In conclusion, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Department of Public Service and Administration and organised labour for having negotiated the restructuring deal we are debating today. We are looking forward to the successful completion of the restructuring process. The ANC supports this process. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, something about the atmosphere in the House reminds me of the last day of school. [Interjections.] I wonder why.
The hon the Minister had a few minutes left over when she was making her statement, and by agreement amongst all the Whips, she is now going to use up the remainder of the time she had saved.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Deputy Chairperson, I think it is necessary to state this afternoon that this particular transformation process, of which restructuring is a central mechanism, is probably the most important and yet most difficult process that confronts the Public Service. It is important because we are going to achieve, if the process is correctly followed, the outcome we need in terms of the quality of public service required. It will be difficult because we expect a team to be engaged in its own restructuring, where we need to review the skills we have in the Public Service, and consider relocation of the human resources that are there.
There is also a need for us all to ensure that we support this process. Hence, it was a bit regrettable this afternoon that some members of this House decided it was a moment to score political points. Unfortunately, the volley was pointed in the wrong direction and it obviously came from an incorrect weapon as well.
Let me just very quickly deal with one issue that was raised. I want to say to the hon Waters that if he has any thoughts on advising the Government, he can dream on. There will not be a place for that. I want to also further say that, on the issue of sick leave, a mechanism has already been put in place. We are going to have a disability manager, a management process that will actually be monitoring the use of sick leave in the Public Service, and will look at trends and ensure appropriate interventions.
The report that has come up is a report that was done over the previous financial year. It is a report that we have already responded to and we have put mechanisms in place. So, he should save those particular proposals for his dreams. I think they are well placed there.
In terms of the qualifications of senior managers I thought that I should raise it here today we have completed the verification of the qualification of all senior managers. The Public Service Commission subpoenaed four provinces where they had not provided the details, and on being subpoenaed, they provided the details. There were two instances where there was a misrepresentation of qualifications and those people were dismissed from the Public Service. I raise this because I feel that it is necessary to point to the fact that we are definitely trying to ensure that we put in place the appropriate systems that are required. But, in order to effect the mechanisms that we have developed, we need to ensure that we have an appropriately and effectively structured and capacitated Public Service.
We need the right human resources in the right places. Today I want to appeal, once again, that we all engage in this important transformation process. We would like to make this Public Service the institution that is central to service delivery, the institution that will ensure that the vision of the developmental state is taken forward and that it is the institution that will ensure that governments indeed govern. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
ISSUES RELATING TO THE AFRICAN UNION
Mr D J SITHOLE: Chairperson, I am grateful to be able to take part again in this debate on the African Union. It is our commitment as Africans to talk more about our problems, our dreams and our desires for the continent. We will not pretend that we are just about to resolve all the problems we have. The continent has committed itself to a process to review its performance on issues such as good governance, good economic management and the upholding of human rights.
The African Union protocol makes provision for the establishment of a Peace and Security Council, and its functions will include the early warning system, preventative diplomacy, peace-making and peace support operations. The African Commission on Human and People’s Rights is to monitor and review each performance of state in protecting human and people’s rights. We have the establishment of the Continental Court of Justice to ensure the protection of all citizens on the continent from injustice.
The Social and Cultural Council as a civil society organ, will influence, monitor and evaluate the performance of governments and will probably compile reports so that we can all see what is happening on the continent. One of the important organs of the African Union is the Pan-African Parliament, which will play a critical role in building democracy on the continent. Whilst at the beginning it will not have legislative power, it is hoped that it will evolve and develop to a point where it will make laws for the continent.
Having mentioned some of the organs of the African Union, it is important to note that these organs are established in terms of the African Union Constitutive Act. This means that they are not voluntary but obligatory. Each state that has signed and ratified the Constitutive Act understands that they have given up some of their sovereignty to the African Union. The process of reviewal will not just be an event but will be a process that will be ongoing as each organ is fully functional and can produce reports. Therefore, the priority of the African Union is to put in place structures to deliver the objectives of the African Union and enable the implementation of Nepad.
Nepad is not an institution by itself but a socioeconomic development programme of the African Union. It is important that we state again that Nepad is a programme that was approved by the Assembly of Heads of State, and it is not an organisation in itself. It is not enforceable in terms of the Act because it is a programme. The president of the ANC wrote in ANC Today, and I quote:
Matters of political governance among the member states of the African Union are governed by such instruments as the Constitutive Act of the African Union. The various African parliaments, including our own, have approved this law. As with any law, it is not a voluntary association but an obligatory one.
All provisions contained in the Constitutive Act relate mostly to political governance and they are obligatory to states, individually and collectively. Those who argue that we should make the Nepad peer review mechanism not voluntarily are, in effect, advocating that we should make Nepad a replacement of the African Union. They want us to demobilise the African Union to create space for anyone to negate the legal institution that we created in the form of the African Union. Hence, they are unprepared to accept the fact that the peer review mechanism advocated in Nepad will be a voluntary process but, at the same time, we will be able to use the AU instruments that are obligatory to review the same states that will be subject to Nepad reviewal processes.
I must indicate that the African Union is a legal authority and we are all expected to comply with its provisions whilst, at the same time, Nepad is a voluntary programme. Therefore, we should resist the temptation to replace the AU with Nepad provisions or a peer review mechanism. Nepad, at all times, will be used as an instrument that will assist the states that will be weak, and its report will be utilised to assist those that are falling behind, but it will not be used as an instrument of punishment nor will it be used as an instrument to replace the obligations that each state has in terms of the African Union.
I therefore conclude by saying that it is important for members to read the reports that we table as the Working Group of the African Union, because if we do not do that we will find ourselves in a situation that I found myself in a few weeks ago when addressing a meeting where I had to argue with members of Parliament about the report that was tabled here and actually debated here.
The hon Andries Botha displayed, in that meeting, absolute ignorance of the fact that the working group of Parliament has reported on a number of issues that affect the African Union. I therefore want to urge and request all members to read the reports we table because it is important for all of us to be able to articulate the correct position when we go out of Parliament. It is embarrassing when members of Parliament argue about the report that has been tabled and debated in the House while some display an absolute ignorance of that particular report.
It is my hope that the honourable Andries Botha will be part of the workshop that is envisaged next year in January, so as to be able to assist in his understanding of this matter and for him to grow and understand where this continent is going.
Mr W J SEREMANE: Chairperson, in our quest to make this century Africa’s time to shine, we are challenged constantly to focus on fundamentals. The grand dreams and designs for an `Africa awoken’ can only be realised on a sound basis of unity sustainable unity amongst the African countries.
We have repeatedly sketched the objectives and principles of an African Union. To mention some of these objectives and principles, we need great attention and I randomly refer to the following: the achievement of unity and solidarity; the defence and respect of the sovereignty of territorial integrity and independence of its member states; the promotion of peace and security, including stability, on the continent; the acceleration of political and socioeconomic integration; the right of member states to request intervention from the union in order to restore peace and security; the promotion of self-reliance; and last but not least, the respect for democratic principles, human rights, the rule of law, and good governance.
The foregoing clearly reveal the gigantic task that is facing, firstly, each individual African government or country, and secondly, the collective effort and commitment of all African states. The task is enormous, complex and urgent. Despite the urgency of the matter, there are, however, certain facts or factors that we need to be aware of. Amilcar Cabral, to quote him, would caution thus:
We must walk rapidly, but not run. We must not be opportunists nor allow our enthusiasm to make us lose the vision of concrete reality. It is more important to begin with apparent delays, but with a guarantee of continuity than to begin too early or in any moment that does not have conditions that guarantee continuity and victory.
We also know that the vision of the AU has triggered off new hope, visions, concepts and projects. We simultaneously have to deal with issues relating to the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament, development as envisaged by Nepad which, interestingly, has generated the whole issue and noble idea of the peer group review mechanism.
Another observation that we need to take into account is that the objectives mentioned earlier can never be realised if individual African countries do not get their act together, so to speak, in regions under their jurisdiction, by upholding the imperatives set out by the AU and all related structures and instruments. South Africa and other member states should approach the task as partners, not knights in golden armour or the continent’s all-knowing big brother.
The first responsibility of the ANC Government should be to the citizens of this country, rapidly and effectively making true the delivery of responsibilities this country’s citizens expect. We cannot incur huge expenses for these noble ventures when we cut down on essential expenditure within South Africa itself. Neither can we make peace, not that peace is unimportant, in far-off regions while there is unease and insecurity in our midst. We also do not dispute the adage …
Matlo go swa mabapi. [People should help each other.]
In dealing with our partner states, we cannot turn a blind eye to corruption, the gross violation of human rights and unsavoury governance. We acknowledge the fact that there are many ways of dealing with problems, but the latent abuse of power and gross violation of human rights and the rule of law, the brutalisation of the media and the outright undermining of democracy needs to be openly and audibly admonished if not condemned. South Africa cannot pussy-foot in challenging Zimbabwe’s ZANU-PF while the entire citizenry dies of hunger or at the hands of state brutality.
The functions relating to the peer group mechanism need to be unflinchingly implemented without fear or favour. Like the good work that has already been done and rendered in the DRC, Burundi etc, the ANC Government needs also to facilitate an unbiased process of encouraging dialogue between the ruling forces, members of the opposition party and all role-players within Zimbabwe.
Disunity and chaos in one African country actually threatens the success and victory that Africa deserves. The peer group mechanism or its contents should be obligatory across the spectrum of structures of the AU initiative. Socioeconomic political monitoring and self-monitoring are essential for success, peace, stability and prosperity on this continent because, simultaneously, there are global challenges out there.
In conclusion, the concepts of the African Union, Pan-African Parliament and Nepad need more information dissemination and publicising to reach all sectors of society everywhere on this African continent, including the sectors of South African society.
Ke le eleletsa matlhogonolo lotlhe ka nako ya tsalo ya Morena le ngwaga o moswa. [Legofi.] [I wish everybody a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year.] [Applause.]] Mrs A VAN WYK: Mr Chairman, the African Union Working Group has been beavering away, quietly ensuring that our Parliament remains integrally involved in the developing positions regarding the establishment of the African Union and the implementation of Nepad.
It is instructive to observe at these meetings the role that is played by Madam Speaker and Madam Deputy Speaker. For their part in driving the process, I would like to thank them on behalf of my party and also express my appreciation for the value added by the extensive international understanding and experience of members.
Without the support of also the efficient scribes and expert advisors we would not have been able to make progress, and they deserve our gratitude.
This Parliament is making history and the vision on which we should keep our eyes firmly set is of an Africa where our peoples are educated and content, secure in the knowledge that we are safe and able to take care of ourselves, our continent and its affairs. Then we will truly be able to be an equal among our peers.
Die voorlegging gister deur dr Zuma, die Minister van Buitelandse Sake, het ons weer ‘n vars blik gegee op die noodsaaklikheid van ‘n organisasie soos die Afrika Unie en sy program, Nepad. In vele lande is daar beswaarlik iets soos ‘n parlement of hou hy beswaarlik vergaderings en neem die president eenvoudig alle besluite. Daar kan ook in sommige gevalle nie werklik van ‘n staat gepraat word in die sin dat daar bewuste bestuur en ontwikkeling plaasvind nie. Nodeloos om te sê, die begrip van menseregte bestaan nouliks op baie plekke.
‘n Mens kan nou maklik sê dat daar eers aan sekere voorwaardes vir lidmaatskap voldoen moet word, maar waar is die slypskool dan? Hoe word die leierskap van sulke lande tot ander insigte gebring behalwe deur blootstelling, inwinning en betrokkenheid. Alleenloperbulle in hierdie kontinent is nie verniet berug nie kry hulle in die trop. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The submission yesterday by Dr Zuma, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, once again gave us a fresh look at the necessity of an organisation like the African Union and its programme Nepad. In many countries there is hardly anything such as a parliament, or it rarely holds meetings and the president simply takes all the decisions. In some cases one can also not really talk about a state in the sense that conscious management and development take place. Needless to say, the concept of human rights barely exists in many places.
One can easily say that certain prerequisites for membership must be met, but where is the finishing school then? How will the leadership of such countries be brought to other insights if not through exposure, convasting and involvement. Lone bulls on this continent are not infamous for no reason bring them into the herd.]
It is important that the partners in the G8 and the EU as well as those in other parts of the world should gain a comprehensive perspective on the nature and objectives of the peer review mechanisms in the AU as well as in Nepad.
Discipline does not mean exclusion and punishment. It is a constructive, educative process with positive objectives and this is how it should be contextualised. At the same time, it does not mean that the big stick should be used for firewood. The soft voice of South African diplomacy will be heard so much more clearly if the recalcitrants know that, inside the velvet glove, there is the hand of steel, and that the big stick lying so unobtrusively on the mantelpiece is no mere ornament or perhaps intended for the braai.
Gister het die Adjunkpresident, soos ook ander met vervelende reëlmaat doen, in vraetyd weer retories gevra waarom daar soveel besorgdheid oor Zimbabwe is en nie oor ander dele van Afrika nie. Dié baie deursigtige gebruik wil eintlik te kenne gee dat daar ander onaanvaarbare redes is waarom ons bekommerd is en ons motiewe dus so ‘n bietjie verdag moet wees.
As dit bedoel is om ons aandag af te lei of om ons stil te maak, dan slaag dit nie. Die antwoord op die vraag is: Zimbabwe is ons naaste buurman, is op ons grens, ons mense is verbind deur bloed en taal en goed, deur ons geskiedenis, deur ons geografie. Dit is ons bure, ons familie, ons vriende, ons grootste handelsvennoot in Afrika. Ons lotgevalle is intiem met mekaar verweef. Dit geld vir wit én swart in hierdie land.
Die goeie werk wat hy verder noordwaarts doen, moet voortgaan en behoort trouens uitgebrei te word om onder meer Soedan en Ethiopië in te sluit. Maar juis die feit dat Suid-Afrika sy verantwoordelikheid dáár nakom as leierland van die streek, as voorsitter van die AU en die leier van Nepad, maak die gebrek daaraan in ons eie kontrei, waar dit ons eie mense ten nouste, laat ek herhaal, ten nouste raak des te skreiender. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[As others also do with monotonous regularity, yesterday the Deputy President once again asked rhetorically during Question Time why there is so much concern about Zimbabwe and not about other sections of Africa. This very transparent practice actually wants to imply that there are other unacceptable reasons why we are concerned and our motives must therefore be a little suspect.
If this is intended to divert our attention or to keep us quiet, then it is not working. The answer to the question is: Zimbabwe is our closest neighbour, is on our border, our people are bound by blood and language and goods, by our history, by our geography. These are our neighbours, our family, our friends, our largest trading partner in Africa. Our fortunes are intimately woven together. This applies to white and black in this country. The good work he is doing further north must continue and should in fact be extended to include Sudan and Ethiopia, amongst others. But precisely the fact that South Africa is meeting its responsibility as a leading country of the region there, as chairperson of the AU and the leader of Nepad, makes the lack of the same in our own region, where it affects our own people most closely let me repeat, most closely all the more glaring.]
The ruling party has ideological and sentimental ties with Mr Mugabe and Zanu-PF. These should now be used to positive effect. A ruler is as great as his realm. South Africa is a great country with a great people. They are behind the leaders and the vision of the AU and Nepad as instruments to bring Africa into its own. The leaders should now act according to these mandates and invite Mr Mugabe to Beit Bridge. This has been done before by people with ideological and sentimental ties. The time has come to do so again.
The New NP supports the recommendations of the Sixth Report of the African Union Working Group and commends it to the House for acceptance. [Applause.]
Mr W G MAKANDA: Mr Chairman, hon Minister, hon members, Africa has been placed on the world map.
Our continent is no longer a forgotten place, thanks to the efforts of many people and organisations, especially here in South Africa. Africa has now rightly claimed a legitimate place on the international agenda, from the Non-Aligned Movement to the United Nations and even the G8. Africa has featured prominently this year.
On a wide variety of topics, our continent is now recognised at international forums and receives significant media coverage. Admittedly, many still view our continent as a basket case and too many reports and debates merely highlight what is wrong or perceived to be wrong on the continent. The onus is, however, on us as South Africans and Africans to prove the contrary. The successful hosting of the World Summit on Sustainable Development, for example, was such an effort which illustrated the vibrancy and the successes of this continent.
In our efforts to build our country and our continent, we must also be careful not to reject negative reports on Africa out of hand. Let us be frank about this. We strive to implement Nepad and the African Union exactly because we are no longer willing to be the hapless victims of famine, war and corruption. We have committed ourselves to an African century because we will no longer tolerate the suffering of African people.
Criticism, when it is fair and reasonable, must be accepted so that we as Africans can address these things. These premises on which we motivate the African Union place a heavy responsibility upon us. The recent announcements about the role of the African Union and the political peer review mechanism under Nepad have further increased our responsibility to ensure the success of the African Union. Now more than ever, South Africa will have to demonstrate its commitment to the simultaneous development of political, social and economic opportunity on the African continent.
The UDM supports an African Union that recognises these principles. We support an African Union that will be a powerful collective instrument of Africa to reclaim and take ownership of its destiny. We also support an African Union that will recognise, address and, if necessary, punish those on the African continent that fail to respect the ideal of justice, freedom and equality for every African. The Lota should not be the sole focus of the AU, but neither can we reasonably expect the African Union to succeed without appropriate peer review.
Adv Z L MADASA: I would like to thank Madam Speaker not only for the progress we have made thus far in the working group, but also for giving us a unique opportunity a historic opportunity to participate in the building of our continent’s institutions. The ongoing conflicts and skirmishes in some regions of the continent are a painful reminder of the urgency of our task to help build permanent democratic institutions on the continent, which can become a legitimate and a credible voice of the large voiceless majority. We can no longer watch the poor suffer at the hands of corrupt despotic regimes. Charity should begin at home before we can settle the vision for the Pan-African Parliament.
What is the vision of our own Parliament? Do we have clarity, domestically, of the role of Parliament vis-á-vis the executive? Do we have clarity on the need to separate party-political interests from national interests? Have we, in our Rules and procedures, fully ventilated the neutrality of Parliament as encapsulated in section 57 of the Constitution? Unless we settle the vision of our own Parliament, we are in danger of bringing a distorted vision about on the continent.
We, as people’s representatives, must take bold steps to charter the way towards the early establishment of democratic institutions on our continent. In view of the patent reluctance of some heads of states to subject themselves to political peer review, it is clear that we cannot rely on intergovernmental negotiations to ensure the promotion of economic integration and development, but on building democratic institutions.
In conclusion, our Government, as present chair of the African Union, is therefore seized with the task to lead the continent and must avoid sending mixed signals on where we stand on the importance of political peer review. We are already under heavy criticism for being soft on despotic regimes. Therefore, we have a responsibility to lead the way in the African Union.
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, it is said that there is something stronger than armies: an idea whose time has come. We believe that the idea of an African Union, African Parliament and Pan-Africanism is something that has been coming for a very long time. Despite many people denying that this is a reality for Africa, it has become a reality for Africa, and we know that no country, no individual in Africa, can resist the fact that this idea has come and it is its time.
It has been said that the five pillars of the African Union are the political pillar that emphasises democracy, human rights and justice; the peace and stability pillar; the development pillar that emphasises eradication of poverty; the cultural pillar that emphasises who we are and what we are, and the fact that when that happens, we become a global player.
Of course, to realise these things, no force must be employed. We must not be judgmental and accusing and threatening, because this will never bring the aforementioned about. We cannot force good things on people. We can encourage them, we can preach about them, and when the time comes, they will appreciate this.
There was a chief in my area called Chief Sikwati who, in the heyday of homelands, when the government was busy forcing the chiefs to accept homeland rule, once said in a meeting: Whoever forces a good thing on people. Selo se se botse ga se gapeletswe, se a bonwa. [If it is good, we will see it and it will be done.] I believe this is what should happen in Africa.
When Africa is developed it will be like green pastures. A peaceful, prosperous Africa will entice all states of Africa to come and do the right thing and the good thing, and that is to govern justly and to ensure that poverty is completely eradicated in Africa and, that therefore, there is no starvation in Africa anymore.
I believe that we should all pray that this should come about. I believe that Africa’s great day will actually bring prosperity to all of us, even those who are very reluctant to accept it now.
Miss S RAJBALLY: Deputy Chair, the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament is visibly intricate. There are so many aspects to take into consideration, and now it is not just under the watchful eye of one nation, but that of Africa and the entire world. The South African involvement in the Pan-African Parliament and the possibility of hosting the first Pan- African Parliament meeting in South Africa is extremely pressurising.
The Minority Front firmly supports the concept of participation, representation and integration of all within Africa. This will surely make us a strong continent. However, the reality is that strong differences exist from region to region and we will need the ability to work through those differences, which are intricate and challenging. For such differences, a mechanism should be put in place to ensure that it does not have a strong negative impact on the project, and has a positive result.
The MF, however, believes that through our domestic example of togetherness and through diversity, the ability to make this work is strong and could easily produce positive results with the commitment and dedication of all participating. The situation for the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament is broad, and there are so many factualities to take into consideration. Time, however, is of the essence and contributions should be made swiftly, but wisely, from all sectors, which would contribute to its success.
The MF accepts and supports the Sixth Report of the Working Group on the African Union and the Pan-African Parliament.
Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, in recent times nearly every debate or question session on the AU or Nepad was dominated by the Zimbabwe issue. I want to emphasise a specific aspect of this issue today. Let us call it realities and perceptions, if one so wishes.
During his previous question session, the hon the President frequently
asked: Why the focus on Zimbabwe? What about the Ivory Coast?''
Yesterday, the Deputy President asked more or less the same question:Why
Zimbabwe, what about Angola?’’
President Mbeki once tried to answer this question in Parliament when he said: ``Why do people want the assurance from me that what has happened in Zimbabwe will not happen in South Africa? Is it because Zimbabwe has a black government and South Africa has a black Government?’’ And, with that, it would seem that the President is satisfied that he has spoken the last word on the issue.
But, the Ivory Coast has a black government, as has Angola. This fact speaks against the President’s assumption. If the hon Jeremy Cronin was president, I would be even more worried. What then is the real reason for the concern? Why is Zimbabwe so high up on the agenda of so many people in South Africa black and white? Let me state only a few.
Zimbabwe is teenaan ons landsgrense. Die kwessie van grond is ook aktueel
in Suid-Afrika met baie radikale aansprake. Zanu-PF en die ANC is ou
struggle''-vennote. Beide is geakkommodeer deur lande met kommunistiese
regerings. Beide maak 'n groot saak van diecolonial legacy’’. So kan ons
voortgaan.
Die belangrikste egter, meneer, of die persepsies van vrees oor ‘n tweede Zimbabwe gegrond is of nie, persepsies is daar om aangespreek te word. Persepsies is soms meer vernietigend as die realiteit. En ons president, as ‘n gesoute politikus, behoort dit te weet. Sal hy vir een oomblik tydens ‘n verkiesingveldtog persepsies wat hom stemme kan kos, ignoreer bloot omdat hy dink dit is ongegrond? Nee, hy sal dit aanspreek en verantwoordelik hanteer. Hoeveel te meer wanneer die vertroue en die toekoms van die land op die spel is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Zimbabwe is adjacent to our country’s borders. The land question is also of current interest in South Africa, with many radical claims. Zanu-PF and the ANC are old `struggle’ partners. Both had been accommodated by countries with communist governments. Both are making a big event of the colonial legacy. We can carry on like this.
The most important, however, sir, whether the perceptions of fear regarding a second Zimbabwe are justifiable or not, perceptions have to be addressed. Perceptions are sometimes more destructive than the reality. And our President, as an experienced politician, should know that. Would he, even for a moment during an election campaign, ignore perceptions that could cost him votes, simply because he thinks they are unfounded? No, he would address them and handle them responsibly. Even more so when the trust and the future of the country is at stake.]
I, for one, am not one of the Zimbabwe doom prophets. I can give 10 good reasons why South Africa will not go the Zimbabwe route. But, I want to tell the hon the President that my people do not want to hear it from me. They want to hear it from the President of this country.
Ms F HAJAIG: Chairperson, colleagues and comrades, it is the end of another parliamentary year, and it is appropriate that we plan for next year, 2003.
What are we as South Africans going to contribute to the process of making this an African century? The African Union and Nepad constitute the ways and means we have chosen to take forward our goals, our vision of an African Renaissance to indeed make the 21st century an African one.
As hon members know, a working group has been established to consider the implementation of the Constitutive Act of the African Union. The working group is of the view that parliamentarians, as public representatives, must be integrally involved in the processes and discussions leading to positions on matters relating to the functioning of the AU and the implementation of Nepad.
The African Union will be the engine that drives the Nepad programme. Therefore, it becomes incumbent upon us to ensure that the functions of each organ is thoroughly understood and the linkages between the different organs amplified how the Pan-African Parliament will function, what powers it should have and the important role of civil society. South Africa being the chairperson of the AU, it places a particular responsibility on us to ensure that the organs are established and function properly.
Colleagues before me have spoken on a number of issues, so I shall confine myself to three. To lay to rest once and for all some doubts of Afro- pessimists in this country and abroad, I want to quote some of the objectives of the AU. The Constitutive Act of the African Union in Article 3 very clearly and unequivocally states that the AU will, under section (e),
Encourage international co-operation, taking due account of the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Under (f), it states that it will
Promote peace, security and stability on the continent,
and under (g), it states that it will
Promote democratic principles and institutions, popular participation and good governance.
These essential provisions, among others, bind all member states of the African Union. This means that it is obligatory for all members to implement these provisions in their respective countries, and mechanisms are in the process of being worked out and will be put into place for implementation and monitoring of performance. In addition, Article 23 of the Constitutive Act provides for the imposition of a sanction if member states do not comply.
As Nepad is a programme of the African Union, I want to emphasise the role of women in all the structures of the African Union. The transition of the continent towards socio, political and economic development cannot succeed without the active participation of women. Women comprise 52% of the people on this continent, and to leave them on the margins would be a strategic mistake.
I submit that unless gender is mainstreamed into all programmes and structures of the African Union and Nepad, our development agenda will suffer serious delays. It is our duty as public representatives in our country and in the Pan-African Parliament, when it is established, to ensure that policies and paradigms are put into place that will enable and facilitate the entry of women into the programmes of Nepad and the structures of the African Union. Women are the prime movers and key players in African civil society and labouring under discrimination, unequal treatment as well as unequal access to opportunities. The African woman’s role and involvement in development and peacebuilding has been and will continue to be crucial to the development of Africa.
Thirdly, one of the task teams of the working group investigated the parameters of regional economic integration. What does regional economic integration mean? What structures are needed? How do we strengthen our own regional economic structure, that is, SADC? What is the interaction between SADC and other continental economic structures such as Ecowas, Comesa, the Central African Union and the Maghreb states?
We need to start to conceptualise how we can promote inter-African trade to promote investment across Africa between African states and to help to build infrastructure development. All this must be encouraged. We as parliamentarians in this Parliament need to put our minds to it.
To make Africa self-sustaining, we need to look to strengthen regional bodies and then holistically chart the interaction between states and regions.
We stand at the threshold of a very exciting period in the life of Africa. Let us work together and make it happen. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: As the Minister of Minerals and Energy is still not in the House, I ask the Deputy Chief Whip whether he is going to move that the next Order be given precedence.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move, but I just want to point out that the next Order of business is the Intelligence Bill? Is it not?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: We will now move to the consideration of the Medical Schemes Amendment Bill.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Chairperson, I move that we give precedence to the Medical Schemes Amendment Bill.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Do we have acceptance for that precedence?
Hon MEMBERS: Yes.
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, I apologise. We are caught a little bit unawares here. Can you explain to us what is happening this afternoon? Why have we gone straight on to the consideration of Bills when we actually do have the statement from the Minister of Mineral and Energy Affairs next on the Order Paper? We have not been informed of this at all. I really do not know what the programme is for this afternoon now. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That is why I asked for the Deputy Chief Whip to ask that the next Order be given precedence. The matter was then proposed to the House. The House accepted it, and the Chair is therefore proceeding on the basis of that.
Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, you may be of the impression that the House did agree to it, but it came as a total and utter surprise. It was not something that was discussed with the Whips of the opposition parties at all. While you may have been informed, I want to say that we were not.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: The Minister is here. I think what we will do, since we have now given precedence, is to proceed with the other matter. I do think that we maybe concluded the other debates a little earlier than might have been expected.
Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairperson, may I ask for your indulgence? I wonder if we could not go back to the Order Paper as it was? One of our members who is due to speak in the debate on the mineral and energy affairs matter is due to catch an aeroplane fairly shortly, and everything was planned accordingly. [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: What we will do now is finish the Order that is in front of us, since there will be no speakers, and it will not erode the time that we have.
MEDICAL SCHEMES AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill)
There was no debate.
Bill agreed to.
STATEMENT BY THE MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY ON BROADBASED
SOCIOECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT CHARTER FOR SA MINING INDUSTRY
The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, hon Deputy President and hon members, I apologise for any confusion that I may have caused.
It is an honour for me to stand here today to make a statement on the Broadbased Socioeconomic Empowerment Charter for the Mining Industry, which is a negotiated product of the Government and the industry led by the Chamber of Mines, NUM and the SA Mining Development Association, which is a representative body of junior and small miners, and the Royal Bafokeng, which represents the rural communities and was later joined by foreign investors who, also, were part of concluding the charter.
What we have now is not a Government document but a document that was drafted by all stakeholders and it reflects the compromises that were reached. Everybody lost and gained something during the negotiations, as usual. But, the charter does not only have a standing in law as it is now, it is also a consensus document that has the same status in our minds and hearts in the mining industry as the outcomes that we reached and adopted after the mining summit. It has the same feeling that we had with the mining summit when we referred to the mining industry as a sunrise industry.
The Mining Charter is a chapter in the book of South African mining reforms aimed at rebuilding the South African mining industry into a 21st century industry whose bottom line is people, the planet and profits. Our mining reforms have included environmental reforms. Members will know what has happened in the environmental scene. The reforms have included improving mine health and safety conditions and providing one of the most comprehensive Mine Health and Safety Acts. They are now also looking at issues, people and communities.
Mining has been and still is the backbone of South Africa’s economy. The city of Kimberley is there because of diamond mining. The city of Johannesburg is there because of mining. Many other initiatives and nonmining industries in South Africa exist because of mining. Members will recall that in section 100 of the Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Act, it was stated that the Minister of Minerals and Energy should develop the broadbased socioeconomic empowerment charter that will set a framework, targets and timetables for effecting the entry of historically disadvantaged persons of South Africa into the mining industry specifically. We were supposed to do that within six months after the President had signed the Act, but we have been able to do it in less than three months. Regarding that, I think that the industry and all other stakeholders need to be congratulated. [Applause.]
Today I am here to update members about the progress that has been made. Hon members are aware that there was a leaked version of the charter, which caused considerable anxiety and, in many ways, it set us back. However, that was a nonstatus paper. What we now have is a truly negotiated and Government-supported document, which is what I was instructed to do in the Act. The people who have negotiated the charter that we now have consisted of Government, labour, business both large and small, and international and representatives of the community. In that way, it is truly an inclusive South African document.
Why is this a broadbased socioeconomic empowerment charter? It is because it goes beyond black empowerment. It will not just only benefit the consortia in the usual way, but it will also benefit workers through the share-ownership schemes; poor rural communities which will be targeted for development; small and medium-sized business which will not be in mining but in supplier industries; and students and employees who will receive training and skills and therefore upward mobility in the industry. It will also benefit the country through beneficiation, which will ensure that we keep more jobs in South Africa as we manufacture and add value to our minerals in South Africa. It will also mean that we can bring investors to South Africa not only in mining but also in beneficiation. It will also address the conditions and setbacks in our communities, which were caused by the migrant labour system through ensuring that not only the housing conditions but also the nutritional status of our workers are addressed, as well as the discriminatory practices against foreign workers in the mining industry.
Young and old professionals, black and white, will be able to collaborate and form small and junior companies in mining as strategic partners who will then build their own new medium-sized companies, which will be able to participate in the mining industry. The charter makes a commitment to have 10% women representation in the industry within the first five years. I am not asking women in Parliament to leave Parliament for mining. It is a truly broadbased socioeconomic empowerment partner because of the number of people that it targets and the benefits that it will bring to the country. Hon members have also been empowered because I am sure that they will be very satisfied with the products that they have guided us to produce.
I would like to highlight the pillars of the charter. The first pillar is human resource development. Through that pillar, within five years, we will be able to create workers who are literate and numerate. We will provide scholarships and learnerships to the workers and people who are outside the industry so that they can come into the industry as workers. Employment equity, which is the second pillar, will ensure that within five years, 40% of people who work in the mining industry as junior and senior managers will represent the designated groups. The third pillar is procurement. We will ensure that there is preferred supplier status for historically disadvantaged people regarding capital goods, service goods and consumable. That will ensure, again, that we have SMEEs and big players who will enter the supplier industry, which is very big in South Africa.
Regarding joint ventures and employee shares in ownership category and for broadening participation in the mining industry, historically disadvantaged people will have substantive minorities in existing operations by having a minimal equity of 26% in 10 years. Within this 26% of equity, employee shares will also be accommodated in order to ensure worker participation at equity level. The industry has committed itself to facilitating R100 billion to mitigate the risk involved in such transactions. What this will mean, simply, is that each partner will ensure that the empowerment partner who comes into business with them will have at least 15% of risk that will be managed either by guaranteeing and pledging the assets of the company or ensuring that the repayment method that is established will be comfortable to the new entrant so that, overall, the risk profile of the new entrants will not be increased by the fact that they have unsuitable financial arrangements. Our own IDC and many other bankers that we met have pledged to support this initiative.
The fifth pillar is about housing and ensuring that we are able to reverse some of the negative effects of migrant labour. In that regard, we will be looking at the standard of housing, including upgrading of hostels, conversion of hostels into family units and the promotion of home ownership options for mine employees. Again, like any other South Africans, those who qualify for the state subsidy will also be considered in that regard. We will also be able to establish and improve nutrition schemes within the areas in which miners work in order to address the concern about the nutritional status of some of our workers, especially in the light of HIV/Aids.
The sixth pillar will be about uplifting communities and rural development. In that regard, Government, labour and business will ensure that in the dense labour-sending areas, previously mining areas which we usually refer to as ghost towns and in the host communities where mining is currently taking place, we will have effective co-ordinated development programmes that will be aimed at eradicating poverty as well as focusing especially on infrastructure development.
The seventh pillar is beneficiation. To increase value addition within South Africa, create jobs and attract investments in beneficiation, every company will ensure and cause beneficiation in its own sector to be accomplished in South Africa. An agreed amount of raw materials will be value-added through the contribution of all South African companies. Government will, however, negotiate on a case-by-case basis to accommodate difficulties that may arise in specific minerals while ensuring that the objectives of the Bill are met. Simply put, it means that we will not ask people who are producing coal to make earrings and jewellery.
We will also ensure that in situations where a particular company, in respect of its business plan and other considered objectives of that company, cannot meet its objectives, suitable arrangements will be made so that that company will still continue to contribute to the overall impact and the goals of the charter and Bill. I have to state that it will be possible to offset beneficiation with equity. Simply put, again, in a situation where a company, for any reason that is credible, has problems with meeting its equity objective, we will expect that company to do much more in beneficiation. The only reason we accommodate that is that, in beneficiation, we create new jobs. We go downstream and bring more technology. In many ways, it is a higher form of value that we create for the country. However, for any other aspect of the charter, that cannot be offset.
We have just come back from a road show where we visited investors, fund managers and people who were concerned about the leaked charter. I want to say that I led a dream team, which consisted of departmental officials, the Chamber of Mines, the SA Mineral Development Association, the Bafokeng nations, the IDC and the banking fraternity. We were joined in London by South African banks who are also located in London as well as some British and international banks that operate in South Africa as a support team.
In the four days in London, we met more than 300 people who attended large and small meetings that we addressed. We presented the foreign audience with one voice from the South African mining stakeholder delegation. It was a Government-led delegation but not a Government-dominated delegation. All the stakeholders had a voice of their own in the discussions and they all protected the charter equally. Some people in the audience were stunned by the unity of purpose that we were able to display and by how far we have come on this issue as different stakeholders. I am truly thankful to the delegation. During that trip, I was truly proud to be a South African and to work with such outstanding persons.
In general, the questions and the concerns that were raised by the audience included the need to assure them on the clarity and overall empowerment strategy of Government, in particular the timeframes and target. In the case of mining, they needed to know whether the 26% in 10 years is not going to be revised. We were able to say we will not revise that because Government is confident that if we achieve the critical mass in 10 years, many entrepreneurs will come out of our communities and they will be able to take into the industry and to participate on a willing-buyer-willing- seller basis. We also gave assurance that the scorecard that we are developing is only an administrative tool and we will not include new issues between the seven pillars that I have just referred to. That was also comforting.
The audience wanted to know what would be in the money Bill. We were able to echo the words of the Minister in the Treasury that, in the money Bill, we will only be able to show that South Africa is sustaining its tax policy, which is already very credible. Therefore, our money Bill will ensure that we have a royalty regime that is competitive and comparable to any other mining regime in the world.
There was constant concern about whether Government will force discount when those shares are sold. We were able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that BEE transactions that have been undertaken in this country have happened at arm’s-length, and Government has had nothing to do with where the private sector was transacting. In fact, the people from the banking industry that were in our delegation and the people from the mining industry were able to elaborate on that matter even much further. There were concerns about whether the introduction of BEE in the mining industry would lead to value leakage or value subtraction.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, the noise levels are too high. We cannot hear the Minister.
The MINISTER: Chairperson, again, the members of my delegation, especially those from the finance sector, were able to give stunning examples of progress that has been made in the mining industry where there was value addition, no value leakage and no value subtraction. The examples given were that of African Rainbow Minerals, which is the number one business in South Africa, as was voted by its peers and NDC, Eyethu, Eyesizwe, etc. All those examples prove beyond reasonable doubt that mining companies that are black and which are in joint ventures or operate alone create value. In fact, the fact that African Rainbow Minerals was able to take loss-making shafts from Anglo American and turn them into mines that are profitable stunned some of the audience. Therefore, the issue of value subtraction by BEE fell away.
They also needed certainty about how and when they would be able to see broad empowerment across the sectors in South Africa because, in that way, they would be assured that our whole empowerment thrust had been taken care of, and they would like to work with us in order for us to achieve that. Of course, the Minister of Trade and Industry will be making an announcement on that issue quite soon.
One of the things that we brought back with us from that trip was the need for constant communication with the stakeholders’ so-called markets who were able to understand where South African policy is coming from and also able to get first-class insight into how comprehensive and co-ordinated our policy is. In that respect, I feel that we have truly been able to go back to the market and to assure them that our mining reforms are on track.
I want to thank the members in the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, and the chairpersons both in this House and in the NCOP for the sterling leadership that they have given us so that we are able to make this statement. I would also like to thank those who participated in drafting the charter and those who have been able to be critics along the way because, without their criticisms, we would not have made some of the adjustments that we have made along the way.
Another team led by the director-general is on its way to New York and Canada to address investors in those countries. My Deputy Minister will also lead a delegation to Australia in order to promote the charter and to win more friends for South Africa. [Applause.]
Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, first of all, I congratulate the Minister on a document which, after a problematic birth, is finally one which all stakeholder feel comfortable to endorse.
It is common knowledge that a well-functioning market economy requires policy, predictability and a credible operational framework. In this regard, the Mining Charter is a pragmatic foundation for the resolution of some critical and competing imperatives. These two imperatives encompass, firstly, a political imperative, namely to change the economy from one owned, led and run predominantly by whites, to one that is truly nonracial, and, secondly, and equally importantly, the demand in reality of the need for economic growth, because without economic growth, there are no jobs.
It is perhaps with a view to striking a balance between these imperatives that the first draft of the charter released on July 19 failed so miserably. It is a matter of public record that the document led to more than R100 billion being wiped off mining stocks on both the London and the Johannesburg Stock Exchanges.
Perhaps the one useful, but very expensive, lesson that Government learnt from this exercise is that capital, particularly investment capital, is highly mobile. If a favourable investment environment is not created by Government, then capital will just go elsewhere where the risk-reward relationship is more enticing, and that is exactly what happened.
Let me be quite clear: The DA believes that black participation in the mining industry is highly desirable no, crucial. It is the precise nature and speed of transformation that is important, and balancing the imperatives is critical. In this respect, the new charter is light years away from the first draft. It is left I believe deliberately vague, in order to promote a high degree of flexibility. While targets are set, the implementation of it is left flexible, the product being quite correctly a product of negotiation between Government and the other stakeholders.
The charter adopts a scorecard approach. Firstly, mining companies are given credit for empowerment deals they have already completed. Secondly, the various pillars of transformation which are importantly specified can be set off against one another. I will not embroider on those because the Minister indeed set out what those pillars are.
But what is important is that when Government is called upon to process the mining licence convergence from old-order rights to new-order rights, all these aspects of transformation will be recognised on the scoreboard. What is important, however, is that the weighting of these criteria is not prescribed, nor is the level of set-off. For example, what level of beneficiation is required to offset what proportion of the 26% ownership requirement? Likewise, no mention is made of the specific weighting in respect of passive and active ownership.
Having said all this, the charter is an important document. It is an important document not only in respect of mining but also in terms of future social and economic development in South Africa.
But, I suppose, one thing that I have to say is that there is a downside to this, which is what the Minister has not said, and that is the huge discretion that she will have. But I hope that the Minister has learnt and that that learning process has been a steep process. Firstly, I hope she has learnt that the mining industry will just not accept the dictates of this Government, or any government, for that matter. It is just too big and too powerful, and it contributes too much to the wealth of this nation.
Secondly, international investment capital is just far too mobile to be the capture of any one country. We cannot afford another R 100 billion wiped off the value of our industry. I hope in future when the Minister comes to look upon granting of licences, this burden weighs very heavily on her decisions. [Time expired.]
Mr N S MIDDLETON: Chairperson, hon members, the agreement reached between the Government, the mining industry and labour on this mining empowerment charter represents great progress in the future of our young democracy.
This is one of the massive industries of our country and a very important cornerstone of our economy. This charter now opens economic doors to the historically disadvantaged South Africans to participate and to share in the economy of this country. The word ``negotiation’’ has again proved its success where the Department of Minerals and Energy, the mining industries and labour were able to reach agreement on a matter that was filled with sensitivity and also with uncertainty at the time.
The latter, of course, was reflected in the unfortunate incident of the draft charter that was leaked to the media, thus giving rise to concern that nationalisation and the so-called wiping out of billions of rands from the mining companies, to the detriment of its shareholders, was possible. However, the final agreement reached in this charter is a good example of how opposing views and positions can be settled through negotiations and compromise. Certainly, there will still be differences of approach among the three parties, but that is the nature of give and take in any negotiation process.
What does the charter mean? To the historically disadvantaged groupings, it spells out progress, ownership and joint ventures and opportunities. To the established mining industries, it may, unfortunately, spell out uncertainty in respect of Government’s transformation agenda and its specific goals. It is our duty as South Africans, however, to assist in making this economic transaction as smooth and as painless as possible. Of course, it is also a fact of life that change, in whatever form, is never acceptable to all people at all times.
The other important issue that we must guard against is that this charter should not be a window-dressing exercise. More so, we appeal to the Minister to be vigilant and to see to it and monitor that there is absolutely no fronting during this transformation and empowerment process. Ownership participation will not be enough, as it is also important to build capacity and transfer skills in a meaningful and long-lasting manner. If both parties remain committed to the latter, the spirit of the charter will, indeed, benefit all South Africans.
Finally, I would like to express the IFP’s admiration and appreciation to the department for its foresight in promoting this charter. It is now up to the Government, labour and the industry to ensure that it bears fruit, irrespective of race. colour, gender or whatever.
Mr A H NEL: Mr Chairperson, I know of no one, no political party, no participant in the mining industry, and for that matter, no one of sound mind who does not agree that we must have a more equitable distribution of all the resources in our country. Therefore, I want to congratulate the Minister and the industry for the final form of the empowerment charter. I want to stress the final form because, in the end, I think, we can say that common sense prevailed.
The preparation and the unfortunate leaking of what I would call the 51% empowerment charter is a lesson to us all of how not and what not to do. It only wiped R45 billion of the JSE’s resources index and scared off a lot of potential investors.
Gelukkig het die President, die Minister en die groot rolspelers in die mynbedryf kopgehou, en ‘n regverdige ooreenkoms bereik. Die feit dat die Minister, saam met die industrie, die moeite gedoen het om ook die handves oorsee te bemark, en vrese uit die weg te gaan ruim, is tot Suid-Afrika se voordeel. Positiewe aspekte van die handves, wat ek wil beklemtoon, is dat die Regering slegs ‘n fasiliteringsrol in die verandering van die profiel van eienaarskap sal speel, en sal toelaat dat die mark die sleutelrol sal hê in die bemarking daarvan. Dit sal goed ontvang word deur potensiële buitelandse beleggers.
Die erkenning dat die oordra van eienaarskap in die industrie op ‘n deursigtige manier en teen regverdige markpryse sal geskied, is te verwelkom. So ook is dit te verwelkom dat die handves ‘n verbreding in bemagtiging teweeg wil bring sodat nie net enkelinge nie, maar ‘n breë spektrum van voorheen benadeeldes daarby baat sal vind. Die uiteindelike sukses sal bepaal word deur, eerstens, hoe buigsaam en soepel die toepassing van die handves en die wet bestuur word, en tweedens, nie net die verbreding van die eienaarskap nie, maar ook die vermeerdering van belegging in die mynindustrie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Fortunately the President, the Minister and the major role-players in the mining industry kept their cool and reached a fair agreement. The fact that the Minister, together with the industry, went to the trouble of also marketing the charter overseas and allying fears is to the advantage of South Africa. Positive aspects of the charter, which I want to emphasise, are the fact that the Government will play only a facilitating role in changing the profile of ownership and that it will allow the market to play the key role in its marketing. This will be well received by potential overseas investors.
The recognition that the transfers of ownership in the industry will be done in a transparent way and at fair market prices is to be welcomed. Similarly it is to be welcomed that the charter seeks to bring about a broadening of empowerment so that not only individuals but also a broad spectrum of formerly disadvantaged people will benefit from it. The ultimate success will be determined, firstly, by the degree of flexibility with which the application of the charter and the Act is managed, and secondly, not only by broadening ownership but also increasing investment in the mining industry. [Applause.]]
Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, in record time, the hon the Minister has already consulted with all stakeholders in the mining industry and she has been able to formulate this Broadbased Socioeconomic Empowerment Charter for the South African Mining Industry.
Someone said during the public hearings on the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill that the devil is in the details. It is gratifying to note that the charter is a product of various stakeholders in the mining industry. There is no doubt that the goal of the empowerment charter is to create an industry that will proudly reflect the constitutional requirement by ensuring that the nation’s mineral resources are developed in an orderly and ecologically sustainable manner.
There is clearly no devil in the detail in the implementation of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, which has now been assented to by the President. The policy objective stated in the Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Act are adequately addressed in the socioeconomic empowerment charter, which has been presented in this House by the hon the Minister this afternoon.
The UDM notes with appreciation that Government guarantees and undertakes, in the South African bilateral relations and agreement with the relevant countries, training opportunities, particularly for the historically disadvantaged South Africans, and exchange opportunities with mining companies operating outside South Africa.
With regard to the provision of training in mining entrepreneurial skills, the charter addresses the concerns raised during the public hearings. It is now very clear that it is, indeed, not the Government’s intention to nationalise the mining industry. This is indeed very commendable. The UDM supports the adoption of this Broadbased Socioeconomic Empowerment Charter for the South African Mining Industry. [Time expired.]
Ms C DUDLEY: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, the earlier version of the charter had a damaging effect on the South African economy as investor confidence was negatively impacted. Now, the question is whether the latest and much improved version will manage to remove investor suspicion and instil greater trust in South African markets.
Presently, however, some uncertainty and insecurity appears to remain despite agreement by all stakeholders on the general principles of the charter. The ACDP supports the economic and social objectives of the charter, and it is our hope that the mining industry will recover and play a valuable role in contributing to the economic growth of this country.
Miss S RAJBALLY: Mr Chairperson, many South Africans are not really clear on the factualities that this department covers and, given its name alone, the responsibility sounds complex and scientific. This calls for greater coverage of departments’ responsibilities and duties in terms that will allow the greater majority of illiterate South Africans to understand it.
Accountability, transparency and values firmly indicate that our Constitution is entrenched in all Government activities. The department is applauded for being part of this process and for efficiently doing so. The MF expresses a need that the department not only report back on its activities and performance but ensures that, given the complexity of this task, the citizenry is made to understand the clarity that can be reached on a simple level of such understanding of the activity.
The criticism of Government in a negative light has also contributed much to the inability of the society to grasp and understand the governmental process and its intricacies.
The MF, however, applauds the department on its many positive results, and wishes the department well in its future endeavours. [Time expired.]
Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, I am glad the hon the Minister made clear the issue of the premature leak to the media concerning the previous document. The question sometimes arises: Is it not a tactic of the ANC to send a radical document as a flyer to test the water to see how far they can go? In the meantime, the markets and the value of the rand have to take a hammering. Hon members must remember that any document can be leaked, and should let the first one be a reasonable one. We are not bargaining on the Oriental Plaza. We are busy with the matters of the country.
I have two questions directed to the hon the Minister. She said that preferred suppliers status will be afforded to historically disadvantaged South African companies. Is that over and above the stipulations of the Preferential Procurement Act of 2000 or within those parameters? The second question is, based on the 40% ADSA participation in both junior and senior management positions within five years, what will the consequences be for the existing management personnel? [Time expired.]
Mr T M GONIWE: Chairperson, hon members and the hon the Minister, I would like to start by congratulating the Minister and her department for their pioneering work and vision in furthering the process of transformation of our economy. The first significant achievement was the Liquid Fuels Charter, which set a standard for consensus on transformation. The mining charter takes the process much further and is a landmark in empowering previously disadvantaged South Africans.
Furthermore, the Minister and her team managed to complete the charter process in a record of three months, six full months ahead of the deadline imposed by legislation. For this, we thank MaMlambo very much and the President for supporting her, and most importantly, we thank the organisation she comes from the ANC.
While we are proud of the achievements of pioneers in the mining industry, such as Tokyo Sexwale and Patrice Motsepe, both of whom were recently recognised for their splendid achievements, the charter seeks to broaden empowerment, to involve communities, co-operatives, family trusts and so forth. This is most welcomed, because this is in line with the current definition and understanding of black economic empowerment.
The charter will bring about transformation in a number of areas. The mining industry is not only the cornerstone of our economy but has also, in its management and its ownership, been a historically and exclusive preserve of a small white elite. Everyone recognises that this is unsustainable.
The charter seeks to address the historical exclusion of the majority of South Africans by setting clear and realistic targets of ownership 15% in five years and 26% by 2012. Even now as we speak, the mining industry lags quite a long way behind the rest of the economy in terms of transformation in middle and upper management.
The Department of Labour’s most recent employment equity report ranked the mining industry at the bottom of 25 sectors. Most of the ownership patterns in the industry are still very much the same. The charter sets a clear goal of having a representation of 40% historically disadvantaged South Africans in management within five years and a target of 10% for women. These must be seen as minimums and not maximums, we urge.
Other significant goals of the charter are the improvement in working conditions as well as the promotion of the development initiatives for communities in mining and labour-sending areas like the Eastern Cape. The mining charter is not only a milestone for the mining industry, it has set a new standard for empowerment and transformation. The notion of broadbased socioeconomic empowerment goes a long way beyond merely owning shares, equity holding and addresses issues such as development, employment equity, capacity-building, promotion of beneficiation and working conditions.
Black economic empowerment must be the empowerment of a broad range of previously disadvantaged South Africans. This new broadbased approach involves not only the transfer of ownership but, at the same time, the transformation of the structure of the industry itself to create more opportunities for investment, more economic growth, more jobs, more skilled workforce and a better environment.
One of the strengths of the South African mining companies is that they are part of the global industry. Mining houses that originated here have assets all over the world. We should take advantage of these in terms of investments and training opportunities.
The process of empowerment should not stop at our borders. We want to plead that the historically advantaged people must take the disadvantaged persons also into consideration when they make deals abroad. [Applause.]
Debate concluded. HIGHER EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill)
There was no debate.
Bill agreed to.
BROADCASTING AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill)
There was no debate.
Bill agreed to.
INTELLIGENCE SERVICES BILL, INTELLIGENCE SERVICES CONTROL AMENDMENT BILL; NATIONAL STRATEGIC INTELLIGENCE AMENDMENT BILL AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY (Pty) Ltd BILL
(Consideration of Bills)
Dr S C CWELE: Chairperson, our understanding is that all the Bills, with amendments from the NCOP, were accepted by all parties with the exception of the National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill, Bill No: S1D of 2002.
This Bill strengthens our intelligence structures for better co-ordination of our intelligence, protection of information of state departments and for vetting or security screening investigations in order to neutralise the effectiveness of foreign intelligence or hostile intelligence operations. Secondly, it aims to protect the intelligence and any classified information and, lastly, to counter subversion, treason, sabotage and terrorism against the state and its people.
This Bill, unlike in other countries, outlines the vetting in detail instead of hiding this important function in the regulations. This is done in order to inform individuals who may be subject to vetting through their interaction with the state on what to expect in these security competency investigations. The Bill provides for the vetting of employees and applicants to the state on request by the head of the organ of the state. The Bill also provides for vetting of contract workers of the state but only if they have access to classified information or if they have access to national key points. Only the DP has a problem with this Bill. The DP is opposed to this Bill because it wants to limit the vetting of the applicants or employees of the state only if they have access to classified information or national key points. They do this knowing very well that the organs of state are the custodians of not only classified information but also sensitive information. Full-time employees of the state have more latitude and opportunities to access sensitive information and sensitive areas which are not necessarily classified but have a potential to compromise national security.
The DP’s ultimate intention is to create confusion and render the process ineffective because this creates loopholes for endless legal challenges of the vetting process. Why should an African or South African weaken the capacity of the state to protect itself from foreign or hostile intelligence? Why should South Africans want the people of South Africa to be exposed to criminals and those who are working against our national security and interests?
It is high time that the DP stops working for the interest of the foreigners or extreme right-wingers. Now is the time for the DP to stop viewing themselves as Europeans and allow themselves to be grounded as Africans and to promote the national interests of all peace-loving South Africans. The ANC calls upon all our patriots and on the DP as representatives of our people to support this Bill and the amendments from the NCOP. The ANC support the National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill and the other Bills amended by the NCOP. [Applause.]
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Chairperson, hon members and the Minister, I am going to confine my speech to the National Strategic Intelligence Bill, the one that has just been mentioned by the chairperson of the committee. This Bill gives the National Intelligence Agency the right to conduct security screening investigations into any person employed by or applying for a job with any organ of state. The Bill also allows the NIA to make use of polygraphs in conducting its investigations.
These provisions give the NIA sweeping powers to violate the privacy of perfectly harmless individuals. There is no good reason for Parliament to give the NIA these powers. On the contrary, there are compelling reasons not to. I ask the House to consider the implications of the Bill before it. The Constitution defines an organ of state as a department of state or administration in the national, provincial or local sphere of government or any other functionary or institution exercising a power of performing a function in terms of the Constitution, or a provincial constitution exercising a power or performing a public function in terms of any legislation, but does not include a court or a judicial officer. In other words, this Bill, if enacted, will give the NIA the right to investigate the financial records and personal information of literally millions of South Africans, from a secretary in the Coega municipality to the Auditor- General of the Republic of South Africa.
This Bill does not distinguish between employees or applicants who have access to classified information and those that do not. It does not require the NIA to comply with any process designed to protect the privacy of individuals.
Parliament is being asked to issue the NIA with a blank cheque that will allow it to decide who will be investigated and on what grounds. We cannot in good conscience do so. Members of this Parliament, as representatives of the people of South Africa, have a duty to protect the rights and interests of the people we serve. That is why we must reject this Bill in its current form. At the very least, the Bill must be amended to apply only to employees that have access to classified information or who have access to areas designated as national key points. These are protective qualifications the Bill affords persons rendering a service to an organ of state. They should apply equally to employees and job applicants.
I urge members present here to oppose this Bill in its current form. [Applause.]
Mrs M E OLCKERS: Chairperson, no person should be employed by the intelligence services of a country if such person has not been vetted or screened, should the DG think it necessary.
Clause 2(a) of the National Strategic Intelligence Bill was included in the amendments because South Africa cannot be seen to have such slack or weak intelligence services that anyone and everyone is welcome regardless. It is like having an open house. It is known in the counterintelligence world that one recruits and gets one’s best information from unlikely sources who usually do not have access to sensitive information, such as drivers of cars with high-ranking people as passengers, from visiting a bar and listening to the friendly conversations in that bar and the clients or the barman himself, or the cleaners. People like these need to be vetted because they often get exposed to casual intelligence conversations.
The DA says that we are giving the NIA sweeping powers to act. Must we wait until something like September 11 happens in South Africa and then give more powers, like the United States of America had to do with their intelligence services after September 11? This is not for everybody. It is only to people involved in state business that this Act will be applied.
If a person applies for a post and fails to get security clearance, there are mechanisms for appeal set out in this Bill. It is only somebody who is naive and uninformed in the field of counterespionage operations who will not support this Bill. The New NP, therefore, supports all the Bills and especially this one, as previously indicated in this House. [Applause.]
Mr S ABRAM: Chairperson, any person who is an employee of the state or its organ is a person who needs to be absolutely beyond doubt. The integrity of that person is absolutely important, in particular, in view of the times in which we live and in view of what is happening around us. When we get briefings from the various intelligence agencies, we take note of the various challenges that our young democracy faces. Amongst these challenges are the possibilities that we have seen in recent weeks. I personally believe that we still have within our security establishment individuals who have hidden agendas and who have intentions to destabilise our country.
Therefore, I see no reason why one should have any argument that any person who is either employed or seeking employment in any organ of state should not be vetted for security clearance. If we say that we believe in zero tolerance with respect to terrorism, then I believe this sort of provision is absolutely essential. Thank God, we have seen the loss of life limited although even one life gone is one too much in what has happened in recent days in our country. Are we going to wait for some major tragedy to take place before we decide to close loopholes that we are prepared to leave in the law by tinkering around with little things that will give persons with an ulterior motive the opportunity to get through the net and cause major damage. We are supportive of not only this amendment but of all four Bills before us. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, the ACDP supports the National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill and all the other Bills. We have no objection to this Bill because we believe that the screening of employees of intelligence services and other sensitive organs of the state and departments in government is vital and that one does need to have such a facility. We know as members of Parliament that counterintelligence is a reality. We know that nations spy on each other. We also know that people come to various countries to infiltrate and to get as much information as possible from that country, and they do that illegally.
So, we live in the real world and, therefore, we need to have real answers. Therefore, we want to support this Bill because we do not believe it will undermine our rights and that it will take anything away. Although there are risks, as the Select Committee on Intelligence, we are also there to limit those risks. The ACDP supports this Bill. [Applause.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the Department of Intelligence has a very important duty in regard to the view of protection of our country. Management of this department, therefore, has to be extremely co-ordinated and managed. Global warfare and the rich history of battle and colonialism will certainly inspire the earnest inculcation of an efficient Department of Intelligence.
The recent attack on the United States could certainly also contribute to alert a nervous state that attack is possible anytime and that good global relations do not necessarily offer a guarantee to a nation’s safety. The MF, however, is sure that the department has measures in place to guarantee the safety of the South African citizen.
The amendments made to the Bill to further accommodate the better management of intelligence are deemed necessary and in line with constitutional principles to protect our people.
The MF supports the National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill and all the others. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR INTELLIGENCE: Madam Speaker, members of the House, we were here about ten days ago when we passed the four Bills that are brought before us today. The Bills were subsequently sent to the NCOP, and the NCOP exercised its constitutional right of scrutiny over the Bills, and one of the items that was brought to our attention, as a concern of the DP, was the item of security clearances.
In the original Bill that we passed in this House, we had made provision for two categories of people who will be screened for security clearances. The DP pointed out to the ad hoc committee that, in fact, it would be in our interest if we linked the two categories to show whether they are similar or dissimilar. The matter was discussed in the ad hoc committee and it was clarified that the two categories of an employee of the state and a service provider of a state are two different categories. Therefore, having agreed that there is a dissimilarity, we put the clause ``under/ or’’ to distinguish (a) and (b).
Mr D H M GIBSON: The Minister should have put ``and’’.
The MINISTER: I also went to school and learnt the same English that he
did.
The Bill was passed by the NCOP and now, again, the DP has come to us and
said, Look, we think that your English could be tinkered with a little
bit. If you putand’’, it would make so much better for all of us’’. It
does not make a big difference. We still explained that the two categories
are clear and distinct and the distinction is shown by ``or’’ as opposed to
and.
The further concern that is raised by the DP is that the intelligence services are giving themselves unfettered rights of investigation and violating the privacy of people who are employed by the state or organs of state. I would like to assure the House that, in fact, in the same law, we have made provision for regulation on how this would be done. The regulations will be made by the Minister and approved by this House through the JCI. So we have made provision for all of that to ensure that in fact the intelligence services have the limits that are required to ensure that we protect the rights of every person who is employed.
Finally, we would like to assure the House that we have put in this clause in the interest of national security. Nothing more and nothing less. We request the House to approve this Bill because we need this Bill. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, before I put the question on the Bills before the House under Orders 5 and 6, I want to alert all of you that there is a technical problem with the printed versions of the Intelligence Services Control Amendment Bill, Bill 500 of 2002 [B50D-2002] and the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication- Related Information Bill, Bill 500 of 2001. The inside pages of the two Bills have inadvertently been reversed so that the text of the one appears within the cover of the other. Parties have been informed and a limited number of corrected printed versions have been distributed. Before you vote Aye or No or indicate any problems, please be clear which Bill you are referring to.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: Item 5 is a composite thing with four Bills. Two of those Bills, we are supporting. On one of them we wish to divide, and on one of them we wish to record … how do you propose distinguishing them?
The SPEAKER: Order! I propose to deal with each of them separately.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Order! I think I must have read your mind, Mr Gibson.
Debate concluded.
Intelligence Services Bill agreed to.
Intelligence Services Control Amendment Bill agreed to.
Question put: That the National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill be agreed to.
Division demanded.
The House divided:
AYES - 252 (ANC-204, IFP-14, New NP-19, UDM-7, ACDP-4, UCDP-3, MF-1).
NOES - 24 (DP-24).
ABSTENTIONS - 1 (AEB-1).
National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill accordingly agreed to.
Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill agreed to (Democratic Party dissenting).
Consideration of Insolvency Second Amendment Bill, Report of Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-related Information Bill and Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-related Information Bill.
There was no debate.
Insolvency Second Amendment Bill agreed to.
Report of Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provisions of Communication-related Information Bill adopted.
Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication- related Information agreed to.
Consideration of International Trade Administration Bill as amended by National Council of Provinces, and of Report of Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry thereon.
There was no debate.
International Trade Administration Bill agreed to.
Consideration of Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Bill as amended by National Council of Provinces, and of Report of Portfolio Committee on Transport thereon.
There was no debate.
Bill agreed to.
Consideration of request for approval by Parliament of Agreement for the Implementation of the Provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 relating to the Conservation and Management of Straddling Fish Stocks and Highly Migratory Fish Stocks, in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution.
There was no debate.
Agreement approved.
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions - Petition of Mrs M Botha
There was no debate.
Report adopted.
The SPEAKER: It is therefore agreed to grant a pension of R2 353. 48 per month to Mrs M Botha with effect from the 1st of December 2002.
Hon members, we will now come to farewell speeches, which I am told members are all dying to make.
FAREWELL SPEECHES
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Ladies and gentlemen, madam Speaker and hon members, the institution of the South African Parliament has come a long way in transforming itself and directing that transformatory work to positively improve the livelihood of our society.
In fact, this is one parliament in the world that has a different make-up sectorally, racially and otherwise, from a university professor to a domestic worker; from mine manager like Brian Bell to a miner like Godfrey Oliphant, and from a docks and port manager to the donkey man in the docks. That is the extent of the representativeness we have in Parliament.
The first impressions of this Parliament one had when we arrived in 1994, observing from the back, unfortunately sitting with Yunus Carrim, was that perhaps this was one area of political life that still carried the legacy of the British Charles Dicken’s type of Parliament characterised by eloquence, articulation and pride of where one schooled and learned English. To an uneducated person like myself, it was an institution characterised by the need to prove the relevance and correctness of one’s existence and presence here.
We have moved beyond the level of that stage of development. An ever- remaining challenge for us as Parliament is to really make it a people’s Parliament. A state is always characterised by the manner in which it decides to position itself towards its citizens and the extent of its responsiveness. South Africa, as a country, is defined and characterised as a developmental state. This then suggests that our oversight work as Parliament has to express itself in recognition of the challenge to relate to the character of a developmental state. This would have to manifest itself through the degree to which we take seriously committee work, and the need to improve levels of capacity for committees to materially and otherwise improve their oversight function.
Overall, there is an ongoing need for Parliament to capacitate individual MPs to cope with the political and economical challenges that we are facing today. The desire to move in that direction would include instilling a sense of duty in those of us who are educated and learned to impart knowledge with the sole purpose of empowering our fellow human beings. In so doing, they would be contributing to building this nation.
During the state of the nation address this year, we were told the story of a drought and a farm. In that story, it was illustrated how, during a heavy drought, Mr Jacobson, a farm owner, and Joe, who was an employee, shared grief in respect of the death of the one and only elephant that was left on that farm during that drought.
Let us remind members that both Jacobson and Joe grieved and lamented terribly over the loss of the elephant. The extent of their grief was the same one would not have been able to make a distinction between the owner and the employee. However, the reasons were quite different. For Mr Jacobson, on the one hand, this was a serious loss, because he had lost the only thing that defined him as a farmer at that point in time. On the other hand, for Joe, the issue was who was going to dig the hardened ground to bury the huge elephant. [Laughter.]
In this we are trying to show that the challenge for us as a nation is to commonly identify and characterise our situation correctly for the interest of the nation. We would like to congratulate all those who, through this Chamber, made attempts to meet this particular challenge. We would like to thank members, all Whips and their respective parties for particularly the positive spirit that prevailed in the execution of our work. We would like to commend the sterling work and conduct of the service officers, the police for security provided, the kitchen staff, Table and Hansard staff, library staff and other units who made our work as public representatives possible.
We thank them for an excellent display of their patriotic duty. We thank Madam Speaker and other presiding officers for the manner in which they conducted the business of the House. We wish members a good festive season, a merry Christmas and a happy New Year. May this be a season of hope and success for our people. [Applause.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow my friend and colleague, the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party, and it is a privilege for me to be able to say farewell at the last session of this year. I think for many of us it is quite a relief to get to the end of the parliamentary year. Members of Parliament work far harder than members of the public realise, and I think that we should go home and tell them that, as we embark on a month’s constituency work before we have a rest.
I have a passionate commitment to affirming and deepening democracy in South Africa, but our Parliament and country are different from others. There are some people who think that there should not be an adversarial system. In countries where one has a collection of minorities in government and where one does not have a government with an enormous majority, then it is probably appropriate not to have an adversarial system. In our country, where one does have a Government that has got sixty-six and one-third percent what one needs to affirm democracy, in my view, is to increase the size of the opposition and decrease the size of the government. [Interjections.] I am very pleased that my own personal contribution this year has been to persuade thousands of former ANC supporters to look at us with new eyes. [Interjections.]
I would like to do a few things. I would like to thank some of my members who have only been here for three years. Most of them were new politicians when they came here. I want to thank them for the contribution which they make in the committees together with all members of this House, in improving legislation and for the contribution which they make in this House as well. I am very proud of the efforts that they make for the people of South Africa.
I would like to thank the presiding officers and to say how relieved most of us were when the rumour that Madam Speaker was about to depart in the middle of November … We are rather relieved because we thought that we might have as your successor a real disciplinarian … [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! May I interrupt you, hon member. Tomorrow is the middle of November. [Laughter.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Well, this might be the ``ides of November’’. [Laughter.]
We thought we might get a real disciplinarian like Mr Farouk Cassim. That would be too ghastly to contemplate. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
We would like to thank the staff at all levels. I am not sure if people know of the contribution which is made by people like Kasper Hahndiek, Marina Griebenow and Kamal Mansura, just to name three of them. These people are worth their weight in gold, and we are lucky to have them. [Applause.]
I would like to thank the policemen and women who keep us safe and treat us so respectfully and so kindly at every entrance to Parliament and at all the gates and everywhere.
I would also like to thank the people who serve us in the dining rooms and those who prepare the food. I am one who really enjoys my food and I like what is served here in Parliament. I thank them.
Finally, I would also like to thank the Whips of all the parties for what they do to make this place work, especially my own Whips, but also the Whips over there. There has been a very good co-operative spirit. My deputy does all the work, I get all the glory, and I am grateful to him especially for that.
As we now go our way, I would like to wish all the members a very fruitful period of contemplation. There are a whole lot who are going to consider in this period whether they are going to cross the floor to the Democratic Alliance next year. [Interjections.] And while they do that, I wish them joy and peace. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Dr L N SISULU: On a point of order: We have noted on this side of the House that the hon Douglas Gibson has forgotten to thank the barmen. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: I would hesitate to rule on whether that is parliamentary or unparliamentary! [Laughter.]
Mrs S A SEATON: Madam Speaker, we have come to the end of a very long and, in many ways, a very difficult year a year that put strain on most of our members. Our members have travelled backwards and forwards, and often the public think this is fun. Our members do not find it fun travelling backwards and forwards to do their work to ensure that they actually attend to the responsibilities of Parliament, their constituencies and their political parties. Members of the public seem to think that Ministers and MPs do not do anything but travel and sit around doing nothing, but that is far from the truth. The truth is that most members work extremely hard, and they try very hard to balance out the schedule of work between constituencies and Parliament.
Firstly, I would like to thank our MPs, especially those dedicated people who take their responsibilities seriously, those who are prepared to make personal sacrifices to meet their obligations and commitments to Parliament, to their constituencies and to their political parties. There are many such persons in this House today.
We thank you, Madam Speaker, and the other presiding officers for maintaining law and order in this House a daunting task at times during this past year. Fortunately, of course, the IFP members do not give reason to have ourselves be told to behave ourselves because we are a pretty well- behaved crowd. [Laughter.] But, to all presiding officers, we thank them very much for their persistence and their perseverance. It has certainly not been a boring year; it was a somewhat dramatic year; boring very seldom.
I would also like to thank all members of the Chief Whips Forum for their participation and the co-operation we have had between the opposition parties and the majority party. I believe we have a common goal in mind, and that is to make Parliament function, to make it easier for members to fulfil their duties. To this end, much has been achieved. There is still a long way to go, but I believe we have made a good start.
To the parliamentary staff here I too would like to add my thanks to Mr Hahndiek, Mr Mansura and Miss Griebenow in particular and to all the other staff for their ongoing co-operation and assistance to us all, I wish to say that we appreciate it very sincerely.
To service officers and all other staff, and I include all staff catering, security, etc I thank them for their assistance in making our daily lives more bearable.
Members of Parliament generally get along. There are times when we disagree and it is mainly on political issues, but I want to remind them that it is time we learnt to keep our eye upon doughnut, and not upon the hole.
I take this opportunity to wish you, Madam Speaker, all members of Parliament, their families and loved ones a peaceful, joyous and blessed Christmas. May the peace and joy of our God and Saviour be with you all today and throughout the year. Enjoy your constituency period, your annual leave, your recess, whatever it is, and all come back fresh and ready. Remember to keep your eyes on the doughnut, and not on the hole. [Applause.]
Mr D M BAKKER: Madam Speaker, another year is speedily coming to an end. At the end of this session, it is my privilege to express our gratitude and wish everyone a good festive season and a pleasant recess.
On behalf of the New NP, I would like to thank you, the Deputy Speaker, the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees for your sometimes very difficult role in maintaining the dignity of the House.
Dit is nie net gepas nie, maar word ook opreg bedoel, om die Hoofsweep en Adjunkhoofsweep van die meerderheidsparty, sowel as al die ander Swepe in hierdie Huis te bedank vir die uiters goeie samewerking in die forums waar ons dien. Die bereidwilligheid om na verdienstelike standpunte te luister, en altyd ‘n oopdeurbeleid te volg is werklik in belang van ons jong demokrasie, en in belang van al die lede van hierdie Huis.
‘n Besondere woord ook van dank, soos reeds gemeld, aan die Sekretaris van die Parlement en ander parlementêre personeel vir hulle ywer en toewyding die afgelope jaar, en namens Douglas ook vir Barney ‘n besondere woord van dank. [Gelag.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Not only is it fitting, but also sincere, to thank the Chief Whip and Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party as well as the other Whips of this House, for the extremely good co-operation in the forums in which we serve. The willingness to listen to meritorious points of view and always following an open-door policy are really in the interest of our young democracy and in the interests of all the members of this House.
A special word of gratitude, as mentioned already, also to the Secretary to Parliament and other parliamentary staff for their diligence and commitment over the last year, and on behalf of Douglas also a special word of gratitude to Barney. [Laughter.]] As members, we should always remember that Parliament is not just a party political game, or just about debates concerning serious issues. For many people in our country, it is about survival, about justice and about a better life. We deserve the upcoming reprieve from our parliamentary duties, but members should return even less prepared to tolerate the fact that so many of our people are homeless and living on the streets. We should be even more committed to confronting poverty, unemployment and crime, and more committed to building a South African patriotism and fostering reconciliation.
It is our responsibility to build a modern civil society based on a social morality, fit and right for today’s world. Many of us will return to our loved ones and to our homes. We should remember that a democratic country, striving to be a strong country, cannot be morally neutral about the role of the family. Parents bring up children, not governments. In saying our goodbyes today, the New NP wants to wish every member, and their loved ones, well. We hope that members will enjoy the time with their families and their children.
Ons wens u en u geliefdes ‘n baie geseënde en vreugdevolle Kersgety toe, asook ‘n voorspoedige nuwe jaar. God seën u. [Applous.] [We wish you and your loved ones a very blessed and joyous Christmas season and a prosperous New Year. God bless you all. [Applause.]]
Mr C T FROLICK: Madam Speaker, hon members, let it not be said that this Parliament does not take its debates seriously. Yesterday, the hon Madasa of the ACDP asked a question to the Deputy President, requesting more speaking time for smaller parties. Since the request came from the ACDP, and after higher intervention, the Deputy President, true to form, listened, and if hon members look at the speakers’ list for this debate, the ANC have only taken 20% of the time. We are sure that this trend will continue into the new year and that more time will indeed be allowed for smaller parties. [Laughter.]
We can rightly be proud of the wide diversity of views that are raised in this House. The hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party has raised this point. This is truly an assembly representing people from all religions, regions, backgrounds, classes and cultures. We can justifiably claim that this institution is fulfilling its mandate as a gathering representing all South Africans. Though we often disagree politically, many a personal friendship has developed across party political lines.
These are friendships that must be nurtured, because often it is these friendships that allow consensus to develop on controversial and disputed matters. Democracy for us, with our history, must be more than the mere contest of opposing views, but must also include the finding of lasting consensus and solutions.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the presiding officers, the Table staff, the Chamber staff and all other members of staff who, behind the scenes, ensure the smooth running of this institution. I sincerely hope that all of us will return in the new year with a greater sense of urgency and a sharp awareness of what needs to be done to improve the lives of all the people of South Africa.
Our best wishes also go to all Muslims who will be celebrating Eid-ul-Fitr at the end of the month of Ramadaan. We also wish all South Africans a blessed Christmas. Lastly, we wish all members of Parliament, officials and staff God speed and a safe return to their homes and their dear ones. [Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, the year 2002 has been a year of great opportunity and challenge for all of us as MPs. Now that we have come to the close of the final session of this year, we would have ample time after we have had some rest to reflect on our progress for 2002.
We must admit that 2002 has been a most challenging year. We have made countless speeches and spent hundreds of hours in committee meetings, kept the executive accountable by asking hundreds of questions, moved countless motions, requested sometimes stridently many divisions, passed a voluminous amount of legislation and spent many days in our various constituencies. We all have worked very hard and when we come to the end of such a long session, we feel the fatigue in many ways physically, mentally and sometimes even emotionally.
The Bible is so right when it says: ``To everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.’’ The time has come for us to say our goodbyes and to wish each other well. Despite our different world views, our divergent political views and sometimes very vibrant, almost strident debates, it is possible for us to part as friends. If our supporters have learned nothing else from us this year, let them remember this one lesson: We are one nation with one destiny, called by God to lead by example and to serve the nation with integrity. Let the nation learn from us when they watch Parliament Live that if we have to fight, we contest with words and ideas never with bombs and bullets. [Interjections.] We are opponents or contestants, but never enemies.
In conclusion, I wish to thank the presiding officers, parliamentary Table staff, chairpersons of committees and all parliamentary staff for making 2002 a successful parliamentary year. We owe it to the public and our voters to produce our best.
Finally, on behalf of the ACDP, if we do not see each other again, I would like to wish all a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year. May God protect you and your families over this festive season and may everyone return to Parliament next year, well rested and prepared to face the new challenges of a new year. May God bless all. [Applause.]
Dr C P MULDER: Mr Deputy President, members of the executive, fellow members of Parliament and colleagues, we have come to the end of a rather exhaustive and long parliamentary year. It is time to say farewell and goodbye and thank you to everybody. I have to say that it was not only a normal, boring political year; it was also a year full of events and happenings.
We had the opportunity to see a rather serious divorce this year, a political divorce, and I must say that for us who were not involved in that, we sometimes found it a bit difficult with the pots and pans flying between the parties involved. [Laughter.] This specific divorce once again proved the fact that there is no such thing as a friendly divorce. We saw that.
We also had the opportunity to experience a new wedding. We saw a wedding in this House, and I must say that, about that wedding, the jury is still out. We all know that the parties are still on their honeymoon and it will take some time to see what is going to happen to this marriage. [Laughter.]
Mevrou die Speaker, ek wil graag namens die VF van die geleentheid gebruik maak om vir u as voorsitter hier baie dankie te sê vir die jaar; ook aan die ander voorsittende beamptes vir die harde werk wat u gedoen het.
Aan almal wat betrokke was in die parlementêre opset hier - die personeel is reeds genoem - en wat ‘n bydrae gelewer het, van die mins belangrike tot die belangrikste: ek het geluister na die kollegas en almal voor my het spesifiek een komponent uitgesluit. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Madam Speaker, on behalf of the FF I would like to take this opportunity to extend my thanks to you, as Chairperson, for the year; also to the other presiding officers for the hard work you have done.
To everyone involved in the parliamentary set-up here the staff has already been mentioned and who have made a contribution, from the least important to the most important: I have listened to these colleagues and everyone who spoke before me excluded one component in particular.]
That component is the press and the media. The press is one element that, to a certain extent, we as Parliament cannot be without, because there is a risk that if the press stops to report on what we are doing here, the public out there may just forget about us altogether.
Ek weet ek praat namens die ander partye as ek vir die media baie dankie sê vir wat hulle hier vir ons gedoen het. Ek wil van die VF se kant af vir ‘n ieder en ‘n elk sê: ‘n voorspoedige en rustige seëntydperk. Mag u ‘n Kersfees deurbring saam met u geliefdes. Mag u uitgerus terugkom volgende jaar, gereed vir die jaar wat vir ons sal voorlê. Daar is baie werk. Baie dankie van die VF se kant af vir elkeen wat teenoor ons vriendelik was hierdie jaar, veral die Swepe en die lede van die Parlement. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[I know I speak on behalf of the other parties in thanking the media for what they have done for us. From the FF I want to say to every single one: A prosperous and peaceful festive season. May you spend Christmas with your loved ones. May you return well rested next year, ready for the year which lies ahead. There is a lot of work to be done. From the side of the FF, thank you very much to everyone who were friendly towards us this year, especially the Whips and the Members of Parliament.]
Thank you very much. We will see each other next year. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: I want to thank the hon Mulder for drawing my attention to what has been going on in the House, to things like marriages and divorces. I will consider the matter and decide when we come back, whether it was in order or parliamentary. [Laughter.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, we have come to the end of a challenging parliamentary year. We meet in this Parliament to find solutions to problems facing the nation and we shall depart from these precincts to go to serve our constituencies. On looking back on the year, one notices that there has been changes in some key positions in Parliament. We had to contend with three Chief Whips, two Deputy Chief Whips and two Chairpersons of Committees.
These changes have, however, proved to be to the benefit of the institution. The incumbents fitted in as if they were custom-made for the office. Whatever backlogs we had in the Chief Whips’ Forum have been disposed of, and meetings of the forum are business-like. The indefatigable House Whip has to be thanked for keeping the House and other Whips abreast of developments in the House, regardless of the time at which she picked up the change. [Applause.] Never have I experienced a House Whip with such finesse.
We praise the strength of the Chief Whip and his deputy for the good leadership displayed. One hopes that, in future, more speaking time for smaller parties will no longer be an issue. [Laughter.] Thanks also go to the Chairperson of Committees and his deputy for their incessant consultation on matters of urgent rescheduling of committees. Their ability is also displayed when they preside over business in the House.
We thank members of staff in the Chamber, on the premises and in the
security section, in fact, the entire family of Parliament. Our hearts go
out to the Speaker and Deputy Speaker, who have had to preside over the
debates and show interest throughout, even when debates were dull. We shall
pause for a while from calls of Order'' andHon member, your speaking
time is expired’’. [Laughter.]
Merry Christmas to one and all. May the good Lord bless you. [Applause.]
Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, I always look forward to this debate once a year when I get the clapping of hands from the ANC’s side too.
I am sure we are all too tired, too tired even to continue fighting and it is the time of the year when we can go home and bond with our families again and bond with our homes. I do not know what is going on in my home, and I always look forward to this time of the year.
We must never forget that we have made a pledge to this nation. When we signed the final Constitution in this House on 8 July 1996, we made a commitment that we would never take this country back to where we came from. Therefore, in that Constitution, we set very high standards for ourselves. So when we debate in this Chamber and we criticise and we look at things that are not right, it is not because we do not like the ruling party. It is not because the ruling party is a black ruling party, but it is because we want to observe and respect the Constitution that is the highest law in the country. I would like to see that we approach the new year with that kind of spirit, that we respect one another for our views.
I want to thank the presiding officers and the Chief Whips for running and managing Parliament the way we did this year, and also the staff and wish everyone a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year, including some of the ultra-leftists like the hon Jeremy Cronin. [Applause.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, another year has been completed in endless debate, hard work, commitment and service delivery. Each one of us has played a part and deserves a pat on the back for the sacrifice endured over this term. However, we all have sworn to do our duty, which we will deliver on happily.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who have worked tiresome hours to make our duties lighter. May God bless you for your hard work and dedication to the South African way.
To the hon members, it has been a challenging year and it was work well done. I hope that the constituency period will enable you to return next year with greater challenges and better delivery for our people. To the hon Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Chief Whip, Deputy Chief Whip, the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, presiding officers, chairs of committees and the committees, I sincerely thank you all for time spent in making our system more efficient and effective.
To our support staff and those in our office, I thank you all for your assistance that has made delivery possible. To all those who have played a part in this governmental process, I thank you for your contribution. May God bless you all. Spend the holidays safely with your family and return safely to a fresh year with new challenges.
I also take this opportunity to wish the President and Deputy President and our Ministers a happy, happy holiday. Finally, on behalf of the MF, Eid Mubarak to all our Muslim communities. [Applause.]
Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, colleagues, as you probably know, at the
moment, I am a bit under seige from the right-wing of my party and, as the
AEB has its congress on 8 February, there is a possibility that this might
not be a goodbye'' speech, but afarewell’’ speech.
Maybe my chances are not so bad, because luckily, the real right-wing of
the AEB is now quite at home in the DP. [Laughter.] [Applause.] Of course,
there is another possibility. If you could play your charm with Judge
Arthur Chaskalson, it can be a case of een, twee, drie, blok myself''.
But I must say I would rather win my case at our congress than be known in
future as acrosstitute’’. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
But do not worry. As they say in Afrikaans, ``die kat kom weer’’. And please, Madam Speaker, that has nothing to do with a certain noise ruled out of order in this House. [Laughter.] [Applause.] Well, let us hope yours truly will be here home and dry when President Mbeki delivers his state of two nations address next year.
On behalf of the AEB, I want to thank everyone who made a contribution to
the functioning of Parliament during the past year. I know that sometimes
things get a bit hot inside this House …
… maar op die ou einde van die dag, soos Naas sê, Parliament is like
the song of Leon Schuster, Die Rugby-onthaal, as hy sing:`Op die veld waai
die velle; hier's ons almal goeie pelle; vat 'n sjerrie vir jou ou
klakous.'' [... but at the end of the day, as Naas says, Parliament is
like the song of Leon Schuster, Die Rugby-onthaal, where he sings: `Op die
veld waai die velle; hier’s ons almal goeie pelle; vat ‘n sjerrie vir jou
ou klakous.’’’]
To you, Madam Speaker, the Deputy Speaker and your co-chairs, I thank you for the dignified way in which you directed proceedings in this House.
Aan die personeel, van wie ek almal net die beste diens ontvang het, van Marina Griebenow se gereelde e-posse tot die ontvangs by die ingange in die Parlement. [To the staff, from all of whom I have received only the best service, from Marina Griebenow’s regular e-mails to the reception at the entrance to Parliament.]
Thank you to all the Chief Whips, the Deputy Chief Whip, House Whip and party Whips for their good work. Congratulations go to the two new Deputy Ministers. I must say I am a bit worried about Mr Renier Schoeman as Deputy Minister of Health. It does not look to me as if he knows so much about sex. [Laughter.]
I want to conclude. If we really want peace and harmony in Parliament and in the country, I suggest and I propose that during the festive season the following couples spend two weeks alone on an island: the hon Tony Leon and Marthinus van Schalkwyk, President Mbeki and the hon Jeremy Cronin, the hon Kalyan and the hon Dennis Bloem, the Minister of Sport and the ref-tackler Pieter van Zyl from Potchefstroom, hon Salam Abram and George Bush, and, of course, myself and Cindy Crawford. [Applause.]
Madam Speaker, hon members, a peaceful and enriching festive season to you all, and lots of runs for Jacques Kallis and, of course, lots of wickets for Makhaya Ntini. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I am sure I speak for all of us that, notwithstanding anything the President of the Constitutional Court may say, we would welcome the hon member Aucamp back, regardless of which seat he occupies in this House. [Laughter.]
We have, as all of you have indicated, come to the end of a particularly gruelling year and a particularly difficult last few weeks, but there is a bright side. With two exceptions, we have actually completed and I am sure the Leader of Government Business would be glad to know that the legislative agenda that we received. And, generally, we did so on the basis of more than sufficient consensus.
We have to thank the hard work of all members of this House for that. I do not think we can say it was one particular group more than the other. This applies to the work in the House as well as in the committees, led by their chairs. We have also, to my particular pleasure, actually had a number of important debates where we have tried to discuss major issues that affect the country, and international issues, and made a contribution to the building of the African Union. With regard to that task, a lot of it still has to be done.
As Parliament and members of Parliament, we have contributed internationally and I sometimes think we do not realise how much we do contribute on the international level to the development of ideas of democracy and to the development of the concepts of Parliament. We ourselves sometimes are too critical and do not notice what we are achieving. So I want to say to all of those who have taken part in those a particular thanks, because we have made contributions. We have not just gone on pleasure trips, although it has also been enjoyable.
To the Table staff, led by Mr Hahndiek, I want to thank them for their particular advice, their support and their management of the Assembly. There are also a large number of Table staff who we do not often see in front of us. For their work also I want to express, on all your behalf, our appreciation.
To the service officers in the Chamber, and within Parliament because they move around often almost unnoticed until they are not there, and then I keep getting complaints that they are not there we do appreciate the work they do there and their presence. Thank you to all parliamentary staff who organise services, various ones that bring the Bills before us to give us that accumulation of paper that fills our pigeonholes all the time. It takes work to do that. It is difficult for us to assimilate all that information, but unfortunately, it is necessary. So we do appreciate the work that goes into that. I will not forget the bar staff or the catering staff, and want to thank them all on our behalf. They also have performed well have the cleaners, and many other who have generally notwithstanding the problems that we have made our capacity to work that much easier.
I want to thank those who have kept the sound system in the National Assembly going, regardless of the break-downs and all the difficulties, because they came in at the last minute and allowed us to continue. [Applause.]
Now in case some of you are feeling ignored, I have deliberately left towards the end the Chief Whips and that slightly mysterious collective called the Whippery, because without your co-operation, with each other and with the presiding officers, I think the business of Parliament would have ground to a halt. So, I want to thank you for your efforts.
To the parliamentary counsellors to the President and the Deputy President, you have liaised well. We believe you have kept the executive members with whom you liaise well informed of what goes on here. The Deputy President I want to thank especially in his capacity as the Leader of Government Business, and for being with us as often as you have been and for answering questions. [Applause.] But I do not, Deputy President, wish to give you too much encouragement. We have appreciated your humour, but singing is out of order in the House. [Laughter.] We thank you for improving, considerably, the communication between the executive and the National Assembly.
To Mr Doidge and Mr Cassim, thank you for your assistance in the presiding, but also for the efforts you are now initiating and making in the managing of committees and supporting their work and facilitating their activity. That again is something that lies ahead of you.
Last, but not least, to the Deputy Speaker, ever-supportive, ever-there when you need her and also providing a smoothing of problems that arise in the House. I have watched often on the monitor and admired how she somehow seems to glide over the problems. I hope to learn better from her example. [Applause.]
I want to encourage all members during this recess to visit the exhibition on perceptions of Africa that opened. It will be on until you come back, but do not leave it too late. We hope you will encourage schools, friends, whatever group you work with, to come and see it because it is a lot more than a display of maps and it is a challenge to all of us to understand perspective when we talk to each other, and to respect the perspective of others. That is really what it is. It is to acknowledge the validity of each other’s points of view and thereby contribute to the better political debate and to the better atmosphere in this particular House. I hope we all draw appropriate lessons from that particular experience.
I want to wish you enjoyment with your families on your well-deserved break and request you to enjoy all the festivities because it may be a Christian or another festivity and, I assure you, you can enjoy them all and there is no prohibition on participating and celebrating, and have a very good new year. Come back refreshed, hon members. As you yourselves have said, there is much that still needs to be done. But remember always that tomorrow is always better and next year will be better for the South African people because of our efforts. [Applause.]
The House adjourned at 17:48. ____ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Minister of Trade and Industry submitted the
Wysigingswetsontwerp op Patente [W 64 - 2002] (National Assembly -
sec 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on 14 November 2002.
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Patents
Amendment Bill [B 64 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
Bills passed by National Assembly on 14 November 2002: To be submitted
to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Medical Schemes Amendment Bill [B 37D - 2002] (National Assembly
- sec 75).
(ii) Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 30D - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(iii) Broadcasting Amendment Bill [B 34D - 2002] (National Assembly -
sec 75).
(iv) Intelligence Services Bill [B 58D - 2002] (National Assembly -
sec 75).
(v) Intelligence Services Control Amendment Bill [B 50D - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(vi) National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill [B 51D - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(vii) Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill [B 59D - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(viii) Insolvency Second Amendment Bill [B 53D - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(ix) Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of
Communication-related Information Bill [B 50D - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(x) International Trade Administration Bill [B 38F - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 76).
(xi) Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment
Bill [B 42D - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Transport:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Civil Aviation
Authority for 2001-2002.
- The Minister of Social Development:
Report and Financial Statements of the National Development Agency for
2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 183-2002].
National Assembly:
Papers:
- The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:
Letter from the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, tabled in
terms of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
(Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the reasons for the late tabling of the
following annual reports:
1. Annual Report of the Department of Provincial and Local
Government:
The annual report of the Department of Provincial and Local
Government was tabled on 15 October 2002. The report was completed
by the Department and handed over to the contractors for layout
and printing on 4 September 2002. The printing was completed and
the report delivered to the Government Printers on 23 September
2002. The report was therefore completed and available for
tabling. Unfortunately, due to a purely administrative fault, the
report was only formally tabled on 15 October 2002. The Chief
Financial Officer, Mr C A Clerihew takes responsibility for this
lack of communication.
2. Municipal Infrastructure Investment Unit:
The annual report of the Municipal Infrastructure Investment Unit
(MIIU) was prepared within 3 months of the end of its current 28
February 2002 financial year. It was formally handed over on 8 May
2002. This was the first annual report prepared following the
listing of the MIIU as a public entity in terms of the Public
Finance Management Act, 1999. The MIIU also provided the final
draft report to the Portfolio Committee on Local Government at the
annual budget hearings. The annual report was not, however, tabled
in Parliament and this is being addressed. The Chief Financial
Officer, Mr C A Clerihew, takes responsibility for not ensuring
that the necessary actions were taken timeously.
I would like to state that these delays were not due to the
inability to prepare the reports, but rather administrative
processes. The assurance is given that additional control measures
have been introduced to ensure that this unfortunate occurence
does not happen again.
3. Municipal Demarcation Board:
In respect of the annual report of the Municipal Demarcation
Board, the reasons for non-compliance were obtained from the
Manager of the Board, Mr H R Monare.
3.1 The Audit was carried out and completed on time, and the Auditor-
General duly signed off the Financial Statements on 19 July 2002,
as he found the Board fully prepared for the audit.
3.2 The preparation of the text for the Annual Report was started
early in the year, and was actually complete by the time the
Auditor-General signed off the Financial Statements.
3.3 However, there were serious inefficiencies in the design,
selection and securing of photographs, proof reading and ultimate
pulling together and printing of the report itself.
3.4 The main reasons for the inefficiencies in this regard are as
follows:
- In an environment such as the Board's, where on the one hand
staff numbers are minimal, and on the other, duties are
numerous and diverse, logistical co-ordination in the
administration and the way information moves from one
cluster/department to another, needs to work perfectly, in
order to make the most of the available human resources.
- In the above regard, the Manager of the Municipal Demarcation
Board has put in place processes to regularise internal tasks
such as the compilation of an annual report. But this
regularisation of tasks has not yet been fully perfected, and
co-ordination to ensure that all tasks get carried out by
minimal staff at the same time sometimes fails, and timeframes
are compromised, as has happened in this case.
3.5 The Manager of the Municipal Demarcation Board takes full
responsibility for failure to comply with the law in this regard
and undertakes to ensure that this never happens again in future.
F S MUFAMADI
MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT
- The Minister of Public Enterprises:
Letter from the Minister of Public Enterprises, tabled in terms of
section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1
of 1999), explaining the reasons for the late tabling of the annual
reports for Aventura and Alexkor:
However, due to the verification of Assets and Liabilities
(particularly contingent liabilities), the finalisation of the
Report has been delayed. The verification process has now been
completed.
The Annual Report for Alexkor will be available for tabling in
Parliament not later than 31 December 2002.