National Council of Provinces - 04 June 2002
TUESDAY, 4 JUNE 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The House met at 14:04.
The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the Council -
(1) notes that six days have passed since it was revealed that, in 1997, Mr Jürgen Harksen donated R100 000 to the ANC and R100 000 to the New NP, and that they may have received much more than that;
(2) further notes that the DA has opened its books to a forensic audit and promised that, if it is established that the party received money from Mr Harksen, it will repay every cent;
(3) records its disappointment that neither the ANC, nor the New NP has undertaken to allow a forensic audit of its donations; and
(4) therefore resolves that the ANC and the New NP should undertake to refund all the money they received from Mr Harksen or else explain to the public why they refuse to do so.
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Order!
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the Council-
(1) notes the continued crisis of leadership in the Doomed to Fail Alliance as a result of the revelation in the Desai Commission;
(2) further notes the delaying tactics by Mr Gerald Morkel in accepting that Tony Leon’s party, from its formation, was doomed to fail;
(3) further notes that even though Tony Leon’s party proclaims to be champions of clean government, it continues to blame the ANC and the Desai Commission for the exposure of its corrupt elements; and
(4) calls upon the leaders of the DA, that is Mr Tony Leon and Gerald Morkel - since they have been proven to be ineffective for leadership - to do the honourable thing and resign. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!
Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the Council -
(1) notes that Pietermaritzburg had been decided upon as the capital of the province of KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) further notes that this decision was arrived at in terms of a transparent and democratic process in the provincial legislature;
(3) believes that the decision in the legislature represents the voice of the people of the province, and that as such it should be respected; and
(4) calls on all parties to abide by the majority decision and to work towards realising the true potential of our province.
DEATH OF HANSIE CRONJÉ
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with sadness -
(a) that our nation is mourning; and
(b) the tragic death of Hansie Cronjé, one of our Republic's
greatest sporting icons, in a flying accident during the
weekend, has left our nation stunned and devastated;
(2) is of the opinion that, although he was a fallen hero as he was embroiled some two years ago in match-fixing scandals with Indian bookmakers, no-one can deny that he was one of South Africa’s finest cricket captains, dedicated, disciplined and devoted, who brought us joy and pride, throughout the cricket stadiums of the world, whenever he led the Proteas to many victories - he was the ultimate professional;
(3) joins the Cronjé family and friends in sharing the grief and sorrow in this tragic loss;
(4) is of the view that the death of Hansie Cronjé has all the trappings of a Greek tragedy; and
(5) is reminded of the final words of Sydney Carton in Charles Dickens’ A Tale of Two Cities before being led to the gallows to be executed by the guillotine:
It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done. It
is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.
Hamba Kahle, Hansie! [Applause.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CENTENNIAL COMMEMORATION OF THE ANGLO-BOER WAR
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) dat die 100-jarige herdenking van die Anglo-Boere-oorlog verlede
Saterdag in Bloemfontein afgesluit is;
(b) van sekere ooreenkomste tussen hierdie vryheidstryd en die
vryheidstryd wat gelei het tot die demokrasie wat Suid-Afrika
nou beleef aangesien die volgende vrae beide groepe
gekonfronteer het:
(i) Watter prys was hulle bereid om vir politieke
onafhanklikheid te betaal?
(ii) Wanneer moet vanaf oorlog tot onderhandeling oorgegaan
word?
(iii) Hoe moet daar ná die nederlaag of oorwinning voortgegaan
word om 'n nasie te bou?
(c) dat die Afrikaners in 1902 hulle taal as gereedskapstuk gesien
het om weer volk te word en dat hierdie suksesresep vandag
steeds van toepassing is op Afrikaanssprekendes, maar ook op die
sprekers van al die ander inheemse tale; en (2) hom beywer vir die handhawing en uitbou van dié tale soos vervat in
die Suid-Afrikaanse Grondwet. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) that the centennial commemoration of the Anglo-Boer War ended in
Bloemfontein last Saturday;
(b) certain similarities between this freedom struggle and the
freedom struggle which led to the democracy South Africa is
experiencing, as the following questions confronted both groups:
(i) What price were they willing to pay for political
independence?
(ii) When must one move from war to negotiation?
(iii) How must one proceed to build a nation after the defeat or
victory?
(c) that in 1902 the Afrikaners viewed their language as an
instrument to become a nation once again and that this recipe
for success is still applicable to Afrikaans speakers today, but
also to the speakers of all the other indigenous languages; and
(2) strives for the maintenance and expansion of these languages, as contained in the South African Constitution.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. PERFORMANCE OF AFRICAN COUNTRIES IN THE KOREAJAPAN 2002 FIFA WORLD CUP
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes and applauds the good performance of African countries in the Korea/Japan 2002 Fifa World Cup Tournament;
(2) further notes that their performance confirms the view that this is Africa’s century to prosper economically, socially and culturally;
(3) commends Bafana Bafana, Senegal, Cameroon and Nigeria for their performances in the tournament; and
(4) calls upon these countries to continue the outstanding performance and bring the gold back home.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
TOP QUALITY AWARD TO BMW SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the top quality award, based upon the number of motor vehicles exported to the USA, made by JD Power of the United States - the global marketing information services firm - to BMW South Africa;
(2) further notes that -
(a) included in the Europe section, the BMW Rosslyn plant beat all
German rivals, including BMW's Bavarian plant and the
DaimlerChrysler factory at Sindelfingen in Germany;
(b) the Rosslyn plant came second out of 10 plants that received
awards and was beaten only by the Toyota Tahara Japan plant
which builds the luxury Lexus cars; and
(c) the award is regarded by many as the industry benchmark for new
vehicle quality;
(3) acknowledges that this is an extraordinary achievement of which South African motor manufacturers and exporters can be proud;
(4) agrees with BMW SA MD, Ian Robertson, that “not only has BMW SA been recognised as building the best quality cars in Europe, but our record also has comprehensively beaten major car manufacturing plants throughout the world”; and
(5) congratulates BMW on this high achievement as the award shows South African exporters can make it in the global economy.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ESTABLISHMENT OF AFRO-INDIAN INSTITUTE
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the efforts of the IFP leader Dr M G Buthelezi and the sociologist Ms Fatima Meer in respect of the establishment of an Afro- Indian Institute to deal with the unhappy relations between the two biggest population groups in KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) further notes that Dr Buthelezi has committed himself to ensuring that the dialogue between the two groups broadly represents the full spectrum of all stakeholders in the province;
(3) believes that this is a tentative, yet positive step towards the attainment of a lasting and just peace in KwaZulu-Natal; and
(4) commends Dr Buthelezi and Ms Fatima Meer for their efforts as they will go a long way towards restoring the faith of the people in the province and in their ability to solve problems through dialogue and negotiations.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
TRAIN DISASTER IN MOZAMBIQUE
(Statement) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, on 25 May this year, at Tenga in Maputo province in the southern part of Mozambique, we witnessed a very great tragedy in which more than 100 people lost their lives and more than 300 people were injured. This, as we all know, was the result of a train disaster that took place in Maputo.
This Council is aware of the enormous difficulties that Mozambique faces, particularly in the aftermath of the flood disaster that they suffered and we share their grief. We empathise with the kith and kin of those who lost their lives and wish those who are injured well.
This Council would also like to note, with great pride and joy, the swift response of the South African Government in expressing solidarity with the people of Mozambique by providing whatever support was necessary, both technically and in terms of the health services required. It also recognises the role of provincial and local government and the departments of health in providing whatever support was necessary and requested by Mozambique.
This Council also notes with pride the role of NGOs and private citizens of this country in alleviating the plight of the people in Mozambique.
To this end we find it appropriate to make a statement to such effect in this House to express the support of this Council for the efforts of Government, NGOs and private citizens in assisting the people in Mozambique.
I have prepared, as Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, a statement which I would like to submit after the other political parties have made their statements.
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, we in the New NP associate ourselves with the remarks made by the hon Chief Whip. It was with shock that we learnt of the terrible train crash in southern Mozambique. We also extend our heartfelt condolences to the government and people of Mozambique, and to the families and colleagues of those who lost their lives in this tragic accident and we wish the injured a speedy recovery.
I also noted in the media yesterday that a Mozambique-registered fishing boat has gone missing. Four of the fishermen have been recovered and search and rescue operations were still under way yesterday. We also wish to say that we hope that the rescue operations in that incident are successful and that the missing fishermen can be found.
We also wish to thank the our Government and say that we fully support them in rendering the support and assistance as requested to the government and the people of Mozambique.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, we in the IFP, like all other parties express, our heartfelt sympathy on the miserable death and agony experienced by all people who are directly and indirectly involved with the train disaster in Mozambique. We are with them in their misery and wish them strength and a quick recovery from their emotional distress and depression as a result of this tragedy. The country as a whole is greatly affected, and we are with them in this disaster.
Lena ngenye yezinhlekelele nesibhicongo esingeke silibaleke izizukulwane ngezizukulwane. Sengathi uMdali, uMninimandla wonke, angababopha futhi abaphe amandla ukuze bakwazi ukulala ngenxeba. [This is one of the disasters that we will never forget, from generation to generation. We wish that God Almighty would console them so that they would be able to brave the situation.]
Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, the UDM wishes to express its condolences to the relatives of those who died in the train accident which occurred on 25 May 2002 in Mozambique. We also wish a speedy recovery to those who still lie in hospital battling for their lives. We commend the hon the Minister of Transport, Dullah Omar, for his timeous presence in Mozambique for the purpose of pledging South Africa’s solidarity with citizens of Mozambique. South Africa has always demonstrated good neighbourliness. Mozambique has requested to be assisted with basic medical supplies such as bandages, spirits and ointments. We hope that our country will readily accede to this request. Incidents of this nature justify the need for the existence of SADC.
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members, on behalf of the UCDP, I wish to extend our deepest sympathy to our Mozambican friends and neighbours on the occasion of the death and injury of their beloved people in a train accident.
This tragedy is even more pathetic and heartbreaking when one recalls that these Mozambican people lost their beloved President Machel in an air disaster. Then came the devastating floods of 2000. And today comes this catastrophic train disaster. This country has been consistently dogged by one misfortune after the other. From a Christian perspective, they need to pray to the Almighty God to heal their country and recommit themselves to Him. However, from a cultural point of view, they may need to make a propitiation feast to their gods. Notwithstanding what I have just said, I hope they will be comforted by the knowledge that we are concerned about them and wish them well.
Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman, being charitable to a neighbour is a good and noble thing. To the extent that our concerns and Government actions reflect that concern, we should be supportive and proud in this House. It is not only right, but wise and a long-term investment in the future. We are therefore pleased that our Government responded positively to the request for assistance by the Mozambican government in May.
Clearly, the accident has also raised questions as to the condition of the rolling stock and the competence of railway personnel in Mozambique. Here too, there may be room for us to help, train and assist. Perhaps other donors, which South Africa is currently co-ordinating, can help pay for such training of Mozambicans in South Africa so that South Africa does not have to spread its own resources and capacity too thin.
The crash left over 100 people dead and over 300 wounded. Our hearts, thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been affected and hurt by this awful accident, particularly to the bereaved families. We support the motion.
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I must apologise for the absence of my Whip, Mr Lever, and in his absence I take this opportunity on behalf of my party to identify with the sentiments expressed by the Chief Whip with regard to the tragedy that has befallen Mozambique and its citizens.
Any tragedy anywhere, especially when the most vulnerable are affected, is an occasion of profound sadness. We wish to support the efforts of our Government to assist regarding those who died and especially in helping those who were injured. We wish them a speedy recovery.
Debate concluded. TRAIN DISASTER IN MOZAMBIQUE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its sympathy and condolences for the loss of life and damage to property caused by the tragic railway accident on 26 May 2002 in Tenga, Maputo province, in the south of Mozambique, in which more than one hundred lives were lost and about three hundred people injured;
(2) is fully cognisant of the economic difficulties already faced by Mozambique, a country that is just emerging from a prolonged civil war and which is still recovering from the devastating floods two years ago;
(3) recognises that Mozambique is shouldering the major part of the burden in dealing with the current tragic disaster, but that the magnitude of devastation and damage is far beyond the means and abilities of Mozambique alone to rectify;
(4) notes with appreciation the swift response of the Government of South Africa, through its Ministers and government agencies, and of nongovernmental organisations and other donors who threw their weight behind the relief efforts;
(5) expresses its gratitude to the officials of the Departments of Provincial and Local Government and of Foreign Affairs who facilitated the delivery of consignments of gloves, surgical knives, surgical clothes, anaesthetics, syringes, bandages and drugs for Mozambique;
(6) also expresses its gratitude to the private health care company Netcare and other unnamed private donors for their unwavering support in the relief efforts and to Southern Airlink, who agreed to transport medical equipment free of charge;
(7) expresses its solidarity with the government and people of Mozambique in facing this complex disaster situation; and
(8) supports the call made by Mozambican health authorities for the donation of medical equipment such as surgical blades, surgical clothes, sterile gloves, urine collect bags, kramer splints and anaesthetic drugs amongst others.
Motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 6 - Public Works: The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, hon members and members who come from other provinces and MECs, in my first parliamentary media briefing as Minister of Public Works in August 1999 I identified challenges that Public Works has to address. These included better provision and maintenance of state accommodation, unlocking the economic potential of the state’s fixed property portfolio, intensifying the national public works programme with a specific focus on rural development and the further refinement of project management.
I said that the department should be managed as a business on sound business principles with due cognisance given to accountability. I also emphasised the need to design systems and procedures in such a way as to conform to the requirements of the Auditor-General.
Notable progress has already been made in a number of areas. We still need to work harder at our system to ensure better financial accountability on specific budgets, for this is a must. Until last year, the Department of Public Works had been unable to fully expend its allocation for capital works. We tackled this challenge and found a solution in the introduction of a Programme for Accelerated Capital Expenditure, or Pace.
Pace is a stringent reporting and monitoring system to force proper expenditure rates on capital projects and/or to detect at an early stage where underexpenditure is occurring in order to institute corrective remedial measures. For the first time, the Department of Public Works has spent just about 100% of the R1,736 billion budget allocated in the year 2001-02 for capital works and planned maintenance. We achieved this by being uncompromising in our attitude and by our focused efforts to achieve operational efficiency and customer satisfaction.
The Department of Public Works implemented the repair and maintenance programme, or Ramp. In the previous financial year, we allocated 46% of the department’s capital works budget to this programme. For 2002-03, we have allocated an amount of R536 556 000 to Ramp. In order to address the maintenance backlog, the department appointed engineering firms to spearhead the repair and maintenance of prisons and military bases. Now all 179 prisons in South Africa are attended to under this programme. With regard to defence, a total of 69 military bases are now beneficiaries, and 28 contracts worth R63 million are in progress.
To date, Public Works has awarded repair and maintenance contracts valued at more than R1,4 billion, with the Department of Correctional Services as the main beneficiary. Using the Asset Procurement and Operating Partnership Systems, Apops, the first two maximum security prisons in South Africa to be designed, financed, built, operated and maintained by the private sector as part of Government’s public-private partnership initiative became operational last year. These are the Mangaung Maximum Security Prison at Bloemfontein and the Kutama Sinthumule Maximum Security Prison at Louis Trichardt. Notably, more than R600 million was injected into the economy of the two towns during construction. In response to requests from the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism and the Department of Education, the department will be procuring, through Apops, new head offices for these departments.
Also completed and officially opening are the medium and maximum security facilities and the housing project at Kokstad. Despite some initial teething problems at one stage, the social and economic impact is expected to be the same as in our other projects. The department recently handed over a site to contractors in Berlin, Germany, for the commencement of construction of the new R115 million South African embassy. This is just one of a number of projects that Public Works is procuring on behalf of the Department of Foreign Affairs.
Last year, in order to improve the management of Government’s property portfolio, we employed a strategic asset management partner, made up of a consortium of six local and international companies. This put us in a position to propose to Government a government-wide strategic asset management framework. This is a framework that will give guidance to the whole of Government, including provincial government, on the management of state properties.
An assessment of properties that have no short, medium and long-term strategic and other value resulted in a relatively high number of properties being disposed of during the past financial year. In total, the department disposed of 63 properties for commercial purposes constituting 88 740,3 hectares that brought in revenue of more than R156 million. Plans are advanced for an increased number of property disposals in the current financial year.
Some of the notable disposals include: Fernwood Estate in Cape Town, on a 65-year lease; Brooke’s Hill in Port Elizabeth, which was sold for R630 000; portion 442 of the Randjiesfontein Farm in Midrand sold for R25 million; Erf 151197, better known as Silvermine, sold for R33 million; and Toothrock weapons range at Saldanha, disposed of on a 10-year lease at R875 000 per year, with a 6% escalation.
We are currently working on legislation for the envisaged state property management agency, which we hope will enable us to compare to or even be better than the best in the industry.
The Department of Public Works has actively supported the land reform initiatives of the national Department of Land Affairs, by prioritising and expediting the release of land under the control of Public Works. A dedicated subdirectorate to focus on land reform was created.
The properties that were part of land reform projects that have been successfully concluded in the past financial year include: the Bethlehem and Harrismith redistribution project in the Free State, which comprised six farms, in extent 1 793 hectares; the Ellison and Steynberg restitution claim in Gauteng, made up of 113 agricultural holdings in Pretoria; the Kameelkop restitution claim in the district of Glencoe, in KwaZulu-Natal, made up of 43 residential erven in Wasbank township, in extent 57 hectares; the Peeha restitution claim in the district of Soutpansberg in the Limpopo province, made up of five farms, in extent 5 096 hectares; the Lebanon Fruit Farm Trust redistribution project in the Western Cape, made up of four farms in the district of Caledon, in extent 119 hectares; the Algeria redistribution project in the district of Clanwilliam, in the Western Cape, comprising former forestry land, in extent 443 hectares; and the Ndabeni land redistribution claim in Cape Town, Western Cape, which came out of the portion of Wingfield Military Base and adjacent state land, in extent 54 hectares.
Another 160 properties, with an estimated market value of R24 million, were also released for land reform purposes. Public Works is also providing land to support the development of low-cost housing, mainly at no cost, to local authorities and provincial administrations. In the past financial year, the department released 19 properties, in extent 600 hectares, with an estimated market value of R8,6 million, for the provision of low-cost housing and related municipal infrastructure.
The Community-Based Public Works Programme has, since its inception, been a programme of participation by all levels of government, community structures, groups and individuals, as well as participation by established and emerging contractors, entrepreneurs and other private-sector enterprises. It is a direct programme of empowerment, as it fosters technical as well as institutional training and skills development, builds capacity and generates immediate development and economic spin-offs in previously neglected rural areas, impacting on the lives of the poorest of the poor. It especially targets women, women-headed households, the youth and the disabled. In as far as formal black economic empowerment is concerned, I am told that 85% of all the contractors participating are emerging, historically disadvantaged entrepreneurs.
Our internal publication on rural development and poverty alleviation, called Tiro, regularly reflects the impact of our programme per province, helping to highlight the role of the provinces in ensuring the effectiveness and success of the Community-Based Public Works Programme in poverty eradication. The build-up starts at district municipality level, where integrated development plans are used as a basis for identifying the needs of the communities before these are submitted for consolidation to the provincial co-ordinating committees.
Convened by the provincial departments of public works and other provincial departments, the provincial co-ordinating committees, because of their proximity to the projects, play a significant role in the monitoring of these projects, ensuring that they deliver according to their intended objectives. We are proud to say, as a department, that for the last two consecutive financial years, we have fully expended the budgets for the Community-Based Public Works Programme.
For the financial year 2002-03, in total, Public Works is presenting a budget of R3,73 billion. The provision for land and accommodation accounts for 86% and the national public works programme for 8,4% of this budget, leaving less than 6% of our total budget for administration.
For the current financial year, a budget of R274 million has been allocated to the Community-Based Public Works Programme, covering a total of 263 projects, as against the budget we had last year of R374 million. This allocation is spread over the provinces. When we started we had three provinces to cover, which were the poorest of the poor, and, as Public Works, we decided that we should share the cake with other provinces. The North West is going to be receiving R10,2 million; Limpopo, R62,5 million; Mpumalanga, R21,7 million; KwaZulu-Natal R70 million; the Free State, R7,2 million; and the Eastern Cape, R70,2 million.
Some of the key projects that we have worked on include the Umlalazi cluster in KwaZulu-Natal. This cluster comprises 19 projects, including the Zulu Theme Park complete with 10 sea-facing chalets for tourist accommodation. There is also a community centre that houses a crèche and a facility for development training. The inclusive cost is about R9,2 million.
In Limpopo, the department renovated a residential area for disabled students at Tsoga O Iterele School. In addition, we donated mattresses, chairs, tables and curtains. This year we have set aside R100 000 to make further improvements at the school. We are hoping in future to build a hostel so that the kids will use the school for schooling by day and the building at night as sleeping quarters. At the Elandskraal Community Production Centre, the first harvest has just been brought in.
In Mpumalanga the Department of Public Works allocated R1 million towards the establishment of the Cairn Lemon Community Production Centre, which is now ready and fully functional, awaiting its first harvest of lemon oil. Already negotiations are at an advanced stage to sell the lemon oil to a big multinational beverage-producing company in America.
In the Eastern Cape on 8 June 2002 the Deputy President will be launching yet another community production centre at Highlands near Umzimkulu. We have budgeted R1,5 million for this project during the current financial year. In discussion with the premiers of the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal we have in mind a proposal to create a cross-border CPC which will actually involve Highlands and the area where there has been a lot of strife for some time.
In the North West province, which was the latest to join the Community- Based Public Works community projects in 2000-01, some projects have been built, which include a bakery, a brick-making facility, several school renovations, garden projects and community halls. For the current financial year we are also assisting in combating HIV/Aids by providing three infrastructure support projects for R426 000. We have also budgeted for one community production centre at R1,9 million.
In conclusion, allow me to express my appreciation for the good co- operation from all the provincial leadership, in particular the MECs concerned and also from members of this House. I know that our officials are jointly trying their level best to ensure successful implementation and for that I thank them all.
The NCOP can help in addressing the challenge to cascade to the provinces the capacity to expend capital and poverty relief budgets. No obstacles should stand in the way of ensuring that provinces achieve 100% expenditure. Another challenge is to ensure that all properties of the state are registered. The ongoing work on the management and maintenance of the asset register must be pursued with more vigour.
The NCOP can help us identify those assets created by Government for the benefit of communities that are not optimally used so that we can find alternative uses for such assets. It is also my belief that a better working relationship with the NCOP is essential, for there is a lot that can be accomplished in the provinces with the guidance of the NCOP. We will make sure that from now on we tighten and strengthen that relationship. [Applause.]
Ms P C P MAJODINA: Mr Chairperson, Minister Sigcau, Deputy Minister Mfundisi Zondi, MECs, special delegates and hon members, I greet you all in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. [Interjections.]
The national Department of Public Works is one of the biggest potential role-players in the fight against poverty, in state asset management, in job creation and in the development of the country. Whilst the progress made by the Department of Public Works thus far is significant, there is no doubt that there are a number of outstanding critical areas and challenges that need to be improved and addressed.
The department’s concept of multipurpose community centres was a well- thought-out idea and should be kept up. Poverty levels are still rife in many parts of our country. Poverty relief programmes are one of the critical strategies of assisting the poor. In his state of the nation address the President identified poverty eradication as one of the major challenges confronting South Africa. In his speech he emphasised the need to focus on the fight against poverty. The struggle to eradicate poverty and underdevelopment in our country is fundamental to the achievement of our national goal to build a caring and people-centred society.
One of the most important goals of the Public Works programme is poverty alleviation. The Community-Based Public Works Programme was initiated to alleviate poverty through job creation, capacity-building and skills training. The programme was also aimed at reducing the vulnerability of poor rural communities, rural women, the youth and disabled people by creating both short-term and long-term employment opportunities.
The Department of Public Works indicated that it would phase out poverty relief programmes in the MTEF. This raises serious concerns, as this will deprive many people of the potential to survive. While there is a need to review some of the poverty alleviation programmes, the phasing out of poverty relief will disadvantage the poorest of the poor. This also contradicts the President’s call to fight poverty.
South Africa is currently confronted by the challenge of providing habitable shelter for the millions of homeless people. One of the factors that inhibit the provision of houses is the availability of land and therefore the Department of Public Works needs to work together with other departments in addressing the housing backlog. The department can play a key role by making the acquisition of land for housing the poor one of their priorities, given the extent of the housing backlog. The budget allocation does not reflect land acquisition as a priority. There is a need for spending targeted towards land acquisition for housing. Whilst Public Works is disposing of land, Housing is in need of that land. Therefore we need an integrated development plan among the departments.
The renewal of schools, hospitals and other social institutions is another major challenge that causes concern. In most provinces, if not all, there are schools, clinics and other institutions that are in an unpleasant condition. Provincial departments of public works often lack capacity and resources to fulfil their objectives. Therefore the national department should take responsibility by assisting and supporting provinces to remedy the situation.
Whilst the Department of Public Works has made remarkable improvements with regard to managing state property and accommodating other departments, there is no doubt that there are areas where there are concerns. There are still many instances where public funds are spent to pay for buildings that are no longer occupied by the Government. In some instances the maintenance of buildings not owned by Government is borne by public funds due to irregularities in terms of lease agreements. This is unacceptable. It needs to be attended to as a high priority.
The Department of Public Works needs to put proper and effective systems and control in place to prevent such irregularities, since they utilise state funds which could be spent in a manner that empowers the poor people. This means that the asset register needs to be improved drastically and also be brought up to date to avoid irregularities.
There are a number of areas where the Department of Public Works needs to work closely with other departments for effective service delivery. An example is the issue of rural roads. When the issue of rural roads is raised, no department owns up to the problem. As a result, no progress is made. The Department of Public Works should work closely with the Department of Transport to ensure that service delivery takes place with regard to rural roads. Our people in the rural areas do not want to know about taking of roads as proclaimed access or whatever it is called; what they need are roads.
Given the fact that the Department of Public Works functions at both national and provincial levels, it also makes an important contribution towards intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance. Provinces have increasing responsibilities for implementation, and given that most public works activities occur at provincial level, the Department of Public Works through the hon the Minister has recognised that her department has a particular responsibility to ensure co-ordination and coherence between the three tiers of government.
The Working for Water programme is another shining example of a co- operative and integrated approach between the Departments of Public Works and of Water Affairs and Forestry. This project has seen the removal of alien vegetation and, in the process, a number of jobs have been created.
In conclusion, the Department of Public Works is one of the most potential role-players in job creation, in effective public service delivery, in economic and social empowerment of previously marginalised communities and in the fight against poverty. However, the Department of Public Works has a number of challenges to overcome in order for effective Public Works service delivery to be realised. I therefore support this Budget Vote.
Mr P G MASUALLE (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister present here, my colleagues: the MECs from other provinces, and distinguished members of this House, we are very pleased to participate in this debate on the Vote of the Department of Public Works. From the outset I really want to welcome the comments made by the Minister, particularly as she was pointing to the challenge before all of us and the role that this House can play in building and forging better relations between the provinces as well as the Department of Public Works.
This is critically important in the context of the functions that these departments are expected to perform. I am sure that better clarity and a better service to the people out there will emerge when we interact more.
I will be speaking on the input by the Minister, particularly in the arena of the Community-Based Public Works Programme. I want to agree and align myself with the previous speaker who has really put forward the centrality of the question of poverty, the need to eradicate poverty in our country and the role that the Department of Public Works can play in that context.
Our experience is that since the implementation of this Community-Based Public Works Programme, no less than R159 million has been spent in our province thus far on an array of projects with very inspiring indications in terms of achievements that have been made. Just in terms of jobs, in excess of 42 000 jobs have been created thus far, 29 000 being jobs that accommodate women. Another 13 000 of those have been jobs from which the youth of our country has benefited.
We think that this is indeed quite significant, because one of the fundamental tasks that this democratic Government has is altering and ensuring that there is a revival of the rural economies. Emerging from a rural province like ours, the question of income distribution is central and this programme, in many respects, has made significant inroads.
The promotion of the previously discriminated against sectors in the economy is but a fundamental imperative that must be achieved or addressed by this Government. Indeed, we are very proud to say that through the Community-Based Public Works Programme, we have seen significant strides in that regard.
Again, in as far as promoting the rural economies is concerned, one of the flagship programmes which has been championed by a number of departments in the clustered approach that central Government champions, has been the SDI programme. Again, through the Community-Based Public Works Programme, we have been able, in co-operation with the national department, to make a significant contribution with a view to achieving or leveraging the potential that the province has in terms of tourism and in terms of a number of related sectors that benefit once tourism is unleashed.
I may also say that through the targeted procurement system, a system that has been championed by the national department, we have been able to affirm a number of emerging business enterprises, emerging contractors and the previously disadvantaged professional institutions. That has indeed been done through the pioneering work that has been led and co-ordinated by the national department.
We do think that there remain some challenges that we need to confront and, indeed, wherever work is done, there are always opportunities and challenges that are created by that work. One area which the Minister has already alluded to is the role that the national department can play in terms of sharing expertise, ensuring that the best practices can be exchanged between provinces. The Minister has alluded to the fact that they have been able to expend their entire budget for infrastructure. It is a matter that, of course, stands before us and asks how we can begin exchanging those lessons in an interactive way so that there can also be improvements of that magnitude in the provinces. I also want to raise the question of better co-ordination so as to achieve uniformity across all the programmes that were undertaken by the department and undertaken at the level of the provinces, because it would not give a very good impression if one were to go into an office in the province and get a level of service that is not the same as that in another office in the same province. Surely this brings to the fore the question of co- ordination so as to achieve uniformity across the country?
The third issue, which is also a critical one, is an expanded vision of the role of the Department of Public Works in the context of the challenges that confront the country as a whole. Those that are learned enough to understand the economy of this country, have come to the conclusion that despite the strides that have been made and the level of growth that has indeed been achieved, jobs continue to be lost. In that context, what role can be played by the department to ensure that it becomes some kind of a net to really absorb and create new opportunities for those people that continue to be without jobs? Surely we do think that the department can play a role? It is inherent in its name - the way it is called - that it is the department whose focal point is, indeed, Public Works.
We think that together we can, through interaction, create a better platform and therefore create space and relevance for the department in terms of the challenges that lie ahead. Surely the budget that has been presented by the department is poised to make some strides in that direction? And, we believe that we can make it with better co-ordination. [Applause.]
Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, die slagspreuk wat die departement
ongeveer vyf jaar gelede aangeneem het, naamlik Mintiro yavulavula'',
oftewelAksies spreek luider as woorde’’, is ‘n baie gepaste slagspreuk
waarmee ek my graag self vereenselwig. Deur verskillende stappe te doen,
het die agb Minister wel daarin geslaag om die ou Departement van Openbare
Werke, wat in die verlede erge kritiek uitgelok het oor sy onvermoë om te
lewer, op die oog af beter te laat lyk.
C J Langenhoven het op ‘n keer gesê: ``Die man wat ek soek, is nie die een wat die minste foute maak nie, maar die een wat die meeste foute regmaak.’’ [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit kan dan ook geld vir die departement, wat in die verlede vele foute begaan het. Die departement kon dan ook daarin slaag om een groot fout van die verlede, naamlik onderbesteding, reg te stel deur vir die eerste keer 100% van die bedrag in die begroting toegeken vir kapitale werke en onderhoud te bestee. Ek wil die agb Minister gelukwens met die regstel van hierdie fout. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, the motto adopted by the department
approximately five years ago, namely Mintiro yavulavula'', or Action
speaks louder than words’’, is a very appropriate motto with which I gladly
identify. By taking various steps, the hon the Minister has indeed
succeeded in making the old Department of Public Works, which in the past
elicited strong criticism about its inability to deliver, look better on
the surface.
C J Langenhoven once said: ``Die man wat ek soek, is nie die een wat die minste foute maak nie, maar die eeen wat die meeste foute regmaak.’’ [The man I seek, is not the one who has made the least mistakes, but the one who has rectified the most mistakes.] [Interjections.] This could then also apply to the department, which in the past made many mistakes. The department was then also able to succeed in correcting one big mistake from the past, namely underspending, by spending 100% of the amount allocated in the budget for capital works and maintenance for the first time. I want to congratulate the hon the Minister on rectifying this mistake.]
It would seem that despite its infancy, the Programme for Accelerated Capital Expenditure, pace, is beginning to yield results.
I would also like to compliment the hon the Minister on the public-private partnership initiative known as the Asset Procurement and Operating Partnership System, or Apops, in Bloemfontein.
The Mangaung Maximum Security Prison is the first prison in South Africa to be designed, financed, built, operated and maintained by the private sector. This initiative, as we have heard from the hon the Minister today, injected many millions of rands into the economy of Bloemfontein during its construction, and created economic opportunities for the community.
The building programme published in the memorandum by the Minister of Public Works is quite impressive. As a representative from the Goldfields in the Free State, I am very excited to notice in the programme that eventually funds were allocated to that part of the world for the repair and upgrading of police stations in Virginia, Welkom, Wesselsbron, Odendaalsrus, Henneman and Theunissen.
Die grootste gedeelte van die geld is egter bewillig vir die opgradering van polisieselle en lykshuise. Behalwe in die geval van Welkom en Virginia, is geen geld toegelaat vir die herstel en opgradeer of bou van polisiekantore nie. In die meeste gevalle is die polisiegeboue in ‘n vervalle toestand en het dringende aandag nodig. Veral in die geval van Bronville is dit baie dringend noodsaaklik, want die kantoor is tans gehuisves in ‘n klein woonhuisie wat sowat 30 jaar gelede al vir die polisiekommissaris gebou is. Die polisiekantoor is egter nooit gebou nie, ten spyte van die feit dat die bevolking van die dorp van 30 000 tot 230 000 gegroei het.
Volgens my wete is daar wel deur die Departement van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit aansoek gedoen vir fondse by verskeie geleenthede oor ‘n tydperk van 30 jaar. Die reaksie was nog altyd dat daar nie fondse beskikbaar is nie, ten spyte van die feit dat die bou van die kantoor ‘n paar jaar gelede nommer een op die prioriteitslys was.
Mens kan kwalik verwag dat die polisie, wat gedurig te doen het met geweld en misdaad sowel as ‘n personeeltekort en ‘n tekort aan voertuie en ander hulpmiddele, ook nog hul werk moet doen in ‘n klein, warm, bedompige vertrekkie. Ek hoop dat die agb Minister ons vandag kan gerusstel met goeie nuus in dié verband om sodoende ook hierdie foutjie reg te stel.
‘n Ander baie belangrike faktor wat groot onrus in die harte van die gemeenskap veroorsaak, is die astronomiese agterstande wat oor die afgelope dekade opgebou het ten opsigte van die herstel en onderhoud van ons infrastruktuur, soos paaie, spoorlyne en staatsgeboue. Ons het ‘n paar dae gelede gehoor van die Departement van Vervoer dat die agterstand in die herstel en onderhoud van die padnetwerk ongeveer R40 miljard beloop.
Die agterstand op die spoorwegstelsel se infrastruktuur is R22 miljard. Die komitee moes onlangs ook van die amptenare van hierdie departement verneem dat daar reeds in die jaar 2000 op die herstel en onderhoud van staatsgeboue ‘n agterstand van bykans R10 miljard was. Amptenare kon nie die gekose komitee ‘n bevredigende antwoord gee oor watter inisiatiewe deur die departement geneem word om hierdie baie groot probleem aan te spreek nie. Die versuim om betyds geld te bestee aan die herstel van infrastruktuur is ‘n groot fout, want hoe langer gewag word, hoe meer gaan dit kos om die agterstand in te haal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[However, the largest portion of the money was allocated for the upgrading of police cells and mortuaries. With the exception of Welkom and Virginia, no money was allowed for the restoration and upgrading or building of police offices. In most cases the police buildings are in a dilapidated condition and require urgent attention. In the case of Bronville in particular, this is very urgently necessary, because the office is currently housed in a small residence which was built approximately 30 years ago for the police commissioner. However, the police office was never built, despite the fact that the population of the town has grown from 30 000 to 230 000.
According to my knowledge the Department of Safety and Security did indeed apply for funds on various occasions over a period of 30 years. The reaction was always that funding was not available, despite the fact that a number of years ago the building of the office was number one on the priority list.
One can hardly expect that the police, who constantly have to deal with violence and crime as well as the shortage of staff and a shortage of vehicles and other resources, must also still do their jobs in a small, hot, stuffy little room. I hope that today the hon the Minister can reassure us with good news in this regard to also rectify this small mistake.
Another very important factor which causes great concern in the hearts of the community relates to the astronomical backlogs which have built up over the past decade with regard to the repair and maintenance of our infrastructure, such as roads, railway lines and our state buildings. A few days ago we heard from the Department of Transport that the backlog in the repair and maintenance of the road network amounts to approximately R40 billion.
The backlog in the infrastructure of the railway system is R22 billion. The committee also learnt recently from the officials of the department that in the year 2000 there was already a backlog of approximately R10 billion with regard to the repair and maintenance of state buildings. Officials could not give the select committee a satisfactory answer about what initiatives are being taken by the department to address this very problem. The failure to spend money timeously on the repair of infrastructure is a big mistake, because the longer one waits, the more it is going to cost to eliminate the backlog.]
Proper maintenance of our infrastructure is a prerequisite for development, for growth, for prosperity and for the eradication of poverty. [Applause.]
Mr S M A MALEBO (Free State): Thank you, Chairperson. Dit is regtig ‘n eer om ná kollega Nel te volg. [It is truly an honour to speak after colleague Nel.]
The mandate of Public Works is broader than being the custodian of state assets. We have been tasked, amongst other things, to lead in the provision and maintenance of physical infrastructure for Government. In carrying out this mandate, we must enhance the capacity of the construction industry in a manner that increases our GDP. The construction industry is as significant to the economy and its growth as the manufacturing sector.
Central to executing this mandate is ensuring that we attack poverty, not to alleviate it, but to eradicate it. In the words of our President, ``we must roll back the frontiers of poverty’’. It is therefore crucial for us to understand the centrality of Public Works as a leverage of change. It is a strategic department to deliver infrastructure in a manner that empowers our communities with social amenities, but we must do so in a manner that develops the poor and the unskilled, and creates both long-term and short- term job opportunities, given the fact that the economy has experienced growth in joblessness, which has led to no income for many families. No income for families means an increase in poverty ratings, an increase in the number of the poor, and an increase in the number of destitute families. This House must know that the allocation to provinces in respect of both total revenue collected and poverty eradication must be revisited if the allocation is based on the poverty ratings of provinces.
The Free State province is regarded as the second poorest province, according to a study on household income per province as a determinant of poverty levels. If this is indeed so, then the allocations must be revisited. It is a fact that most families that are dependent on social and old age pensions are better off than many families that are employed in the Free State, who earn far less than the pension of R570 per month. In other words, it is better to be unemployed and to receive an old age or disability pension than to work, for many people in the Free State.
In our effort to address poverty in our province, the executive council identified the Garieb district as the second poorest area in the Free State and declared it its second nodal point, after the President had declared Thabo Mofutsanyane district council as a nodal point. The intention is, through infrastructural development, to create jobs, grow the economy, upgrade the skills levels of the unemployed, and raise the literacy level to reduce our poverty ratings. This is the task of Public Works and this is our mandate in the democratic order.
To this end, various projects throughout the breadth and length of the province are under way. The department has running projects to the tune of R100 million for the Department of Education, R60 million for Health, R10 million for Social Development, R6 million for Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and R9 million for Sports, Arts and Culture. To ensure that we deliver, and no roll-overs happen, all work was planned in the last quarter of the previous financial year, and the department started with the execution of all projects as of the first day of the new financial year. The execution of all planned projects that have been budgeted for is a crucial part of the construction enhancement programme. Of the R185 million spent in the last year, 85% was allocated to black emerging contractors, and, for the first time this year, at least one woman-owned construction company was appointed for a contract of R2 million. This trend must continue and the value must increase. If we are to tackle the huge maintenance backlog of buildings, estimated at 45% and valued at R16 billion, we must revisit the allocations according to need.
Land must be released quickly for development purposes to speed up delivery. To realise this, special efforts have been undertaken to ensure that both the Departments of Public Works and of Agriculture and Land Affairs release land for development faster to ensure that essential projects for schools, clinics, hospitals, etc, are constructed in the shortest lead time.
The major challenge, we all agree, facing the Department of Public Works is to embark on a national job creation project that will provide a long-term, labour-intensive project to provide jobs of a long-term nature, 10 to 15 years, to our unemployed people. We must not fool ourselves; the private sector will never do this, it is not interested in this. This is the challenge for Government, and the Department of Public Works is the department that can do this. I stand in support of the Vote. [Applause.]
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon special delegates, hon colleagues, let me at the outset place on record my party’s acknowledgement and appreciation of the untiring efforts of the Ministry and the Department of Public Works, and the laudable initiatives already taken to ward off the tentacles of poverty, especially on rural communities, in its focus on infrastructure such as clinics, police stations, schools, dams, community multifunction halls and the like.
The Community-Based Public Works Programme, as a rural-biased development strategy, has worked wonders in creating employment opportunities for small- time subcontractors, especially from the local communities. But it has emerged from briefings and hearings that some of these subcontractors, who are obviously attempting to take their first steps up the ladder towards self-sufficiency and a modicum of prosperity, are often exploited and not paid in good time by their principal contractors, some of whom often collect the payments for themselves and disappear.
This is a serious concern that needs to be addressed. The disadvantaged, it would seem, are being further disadvantaged when due payment for work done is not forthcoming. Unscrupulous operators in the construction and repair and maintenance sector must be identified and blacklisted, so as not to let them further enjoy the fruits of state tender.
However, we note with approbation that emerging black contractors undertake some 34,5% of the department’s capital works in the Community-Based Public Works Programme’s poverty relief programmes. This is indeed a far cry from the 4% involvement in 1995.
Let me dwell for a moment on the disposal of state properties. Yes, as the Minister once remarked, the state owns a huge estate and the Department of Public Works is the manager of this huge estate. It is an asset management function to identify and dispose of redundant properties. The disposal strategy must obviously be aimed at ridding Government of superfluous and redundant properties in order to contain costs associated with management and maintenance.
Some of these properties remain unutilised and underutilised for decades. In September 2000 the hon the Minister, in her reply to a question, stated that some 88 properties that had been identified as being redundant and were in a bad state of disrepair had been disposed of by the state. The department also indicated that some properties, mostly in former homelands, would be put on the market or sold to local municipalities.
We have information that on the East Rand, for instance in places such as Boksburg North, state properties and buildings have been lying idle and unused for 50 to 80 years. Initially they were intended for use as police stations or schools, but over the years the need for use did not arise, so they were left for the sole occupation of ghosts. But because the local authorities continued to cut the grass, remove the rubble, install electricity and provide water, etc, can we not now hand these over at nominal prices and let the local authorities begin to rejuvenate the towns and suburbs, thus maximising the use of these properties for the sole benefit of the communities?
I would like to say something on the question of leasing. On the subject of leasing of properties by the state, there is no doubt that many property owners have exploited Government or unfortunately have been found wanting, in its inadequate capacity, to manage the leases. The certainty of a guaranteed income has made many landlords greedy. Some of the buildings leased by the state are often health and safety hazards, and it is the most vulnerable in our communities, the poor, the aged and the disabled, who have to use these buildings and contend with the derelict and poorly maintained properties. We therefore underline the urgent need for a fresh and thorough renegotiation of leases, especially in cases where buildings are in a serious state of disrepair.
It is with dismay that my party notes that there have been cases where leases have expired, and yet the state, or is it Father Christmas, continues payments long after leases have lapsed. Such shoddy management of state leasing is untenable, and drastic action must be taken.
All in all, we support the hon the Minister in her tireless efforts to make the Department of Public Works work.
Mr C G TSOTETSI (Gauteng): Chairperson, the Department of Public Transport, Roads and Works in Gauteng manages a total budget of approximately R1,2 billion.
The transport branch manages the transport and roads budget directly, whilst the public works branch manages both the departmental budget as well as client departments’ budgets on an urgency basis. The biggest client of the department is the Gauteng Department of Health. The department does not service the Gauteng Department of Education, which has its own public works.
The budget for the public works branch for the previous financial year was R439 million, that is, excluding the budgets from other departments. The strategic priorities of public works are job creation, the new public works business model, the asset management strategy, partnership programmes in the provision of infrastructure for social services, that is the Community- Based Public Works Programme, licence fee revenue optimisation, human resource development, procurement reform, black economic empowerment and a special project called Zivuseni, which is led by the MEC.
Regarding the Community-Based Public Works Programme, the department is handling about 32 projects which are valued at R45 million, 73% of which have been implemented through the partnership. The current budget is inadequate to deal with infrastructure backlogs in marginalised areas. The department has enough capacity to deal with funded projects per annum; however, community demand outstrips supply.
Let me deal with the construction industry development programme. The focus for Gauteng has been the development of the small emerging contractors through the Khubakhi programmme. Fifty-two contractors are being taken through the programme from level 1 to level 5. As they progress through the levels, the assistance provided by the department is reduced gradually as well as the protection in terms of the tendering process. By the time they reach level 5, they are able to manage their businesses independently and tender independently for bigger jobs. A new intake is expected to be taken in this financial year.
The main strategy to deal with maintenance backlogs is through the hospital rehabilitation and reconstruction programme. The province sets aside approximately R150 million annually for this purpose. Through this programme we have been able to revamp hospitals and build new hospitals where it is economically viable, for example, the building of the new Pretoria academic hospital at R265 million and the Rehabilitation of Chris Hani Baragwanath and Edenvale Hospitals at the cost of R40 million and Wits Dental School at R11 million.
The second aspect of the strategy has been to conduct a status quo analysis of all facilities in order to improve the data quality and strategic decision-making. This has enabled us to carry out conditional assessments of all our hospitals, clinics, welfare institutions and recreational facilities. The data collected has given us a realistic picture of what the actual maintenance backlogs are per building. The information has also enabled us to make strategic decisions on where to spend money economically as well as where not to spend money because the cost may be prohibitive or not cost effective.
The estimated current maintenance budget required for health facilities amounts to R286 million, including R128 million for backlog maintenance. This figure is 5,4% of the current construction costs of R5,3 billion. If these maintenance backlogs were to be eradicated in the next three years at a cost escalation of 7,5% per annum, the following additional budget would be required: for the first year R200 million; for the second year, R217 million; for the third year, R236 million.
Maintenance costs would therefore be substantially reduced if we were to invest substantial amounts for maintenance in the next three years. The budget for maintenance for the current financial year is R333 million. The average condition of Gauteng health facilities is 3,8 on a five-point scale. Most buildings require minor repairs, with painting and fixing of roofs and ceilings requiring the most urgent attention. In general, electrical and mechanical installations are in an above average condition. The worst average condition is that of sites, civil works and gardens, which give the impression that facilities are in a state of neglect. The money that Gauteng province has set aside for Zivuseni will go a long way in eradicating this perception whilst alleviating poverty.
The province has acquired the said fixed asset management system in order to control and update its asset register. The system not only captures the assets but enables the province to manage its properties effectively. For example, it records occupation rates, space utilisation, maintenance and the costs of managing the assets so that strategic decisions can be made about properties. The province has fixed assets valued at approximately R12 billion which it manages. The aim is to optimise both the social and the market value of assets by effectively and efficiently managing these assets. An asset management strategy is in place which helps us to determine how to manage the fixed assets portfolio, in terms of acquisitions and disposals as well as the operation and maintenance of these assets.
Projects that are in progress include the Community-Based Public Works Programmes, which has 32 projects, the labour-intensive programme with 90 projects, the labour maximisation programme, the Potlaka programme, the Zivuseni project, the Pretoria academic hospital project, the Strijdom Square restoration, Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital, Edenvale Hospital, black economic empowerment, job creation, the total asset management strategy and Wits Dental School.
These are the key challenges facing our province: to increase the budget for Community-Based Public Works in order to deal with infrastructure backlogs in marginalised areas; to increase the budget for Zivuseni in order to deal with poverty and unemployment in the province; to increase maintenance budgets in order to eradicate backlogs and thus reduce costs in the long term; to continue investing in the hospital reconstruction and rehabilitation programme in order to continue providing world-class facilities and service to the people of Gauteng and the rest of the country; to create as many jobs as possible while developing infrastructure for social services; to improve the condition of all government infrastructure to level 4 in such a way that it affords respect and dignity to the communities of Gauteng; to remain the service provider of choice on merit for all our client departments; to reduce infrastructure backlogs in the marginalised areas; to optimise the social and market value of the fixed asset portfolio of government; and to continue with the development of black economic empowerment.
The ANC Government is very clear on what needs to be done in terms of providing accelerated service delivery to the people of South Africa. It is also clear on the need to create jobs or conditions conducive to employment creation. Given this clear vision the Gauteng department of public transport, roads and works is committed to implementing its strategies in order to ensure that the government delivers on its promise to create a better life for all in South Africa. Gauteng supports the budget. [Applause.]
Mr J S MABONA (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, Minister of Public Works, Deputy Minister, all colleagues from provinces and hon members of this House, the province of Mpumalanga appreciates the support and interest shown by the national Minister over the past year, and in particular the personal visit to the province by the hon the Minister, Stella Sigcau, to inspect most of the projects undertaken in terms of the Community-Based Public Works Programme.
When one visits these projects it becomes apparent that some projects are more successful than others. Although provinces are requested to play a monitoring role in the execution of national projects this role is somewhat limited and confined to certain issues only. The community, public works projects are specifically aimed at the extremely needy poverty pockets in the country and will make a difference in many communities. It is for this reason that not a single less successful project can be afforded in the context of the extremely limited resources available at national and provincial level. A co-ordinated approach amongst all three levels of government is therefore a prerequisite for success, more than ever before. The national department took a decision some three years ago that provinces cannot be players and referees at the same time, and rightly so. But certain provinces developed skills and expertise to embark on such projects and are continuing to execute community public works projects, although confined to a limited budget, in the devolving of national projects to district councils as implementing agents. This expertise might not be available to all these agencies, especially to those district councils that are already finding it difficult to render basic services to poverty-stricken communities. It is for this reason that I would like to offer more assistance from provincial level to these three councils.
With the reality of an ever-diminishing budget at all levels of the government, the first casualty is always the maintenance fund, to the detriment of the immovable property portfolio of government. This situation is even more serious since the implementation of the Public Finance Management Act. In terms of this Act, client departments especially education, health and welfare, should budget for the maintenance of the fixed assets under their control. This, unfortunately, does not get the necessary attention and leads to an even more diminishing budget to maintain such assets from this department. A co-ordinated approach to budgeting is therefore essential, even if it means prescriptive measures by the Department of Finance similar to those prescribing the 85%-15% division of provincial budgets for education, health and welfare purposes. We cannot allow a single bridge to be built when we are burning them behind us.
As a result of the limited financial resources at our disposal, the backlog in the maintenance of government buildings and the construction of community facilities such as crèches and halls, to mention but a few, is very huge. At this point in time we only attend to emergency maintenance work in day-to-day or routine maintenance. Without financial resources, preventative maintenance work cannot be attended to. I must also tell the Minister that this Government’s community public works project has helped a lot of people in the poverty-stricken areas of Mpumalanga. If this project had not been commissioned, those people would go to bed hungry.
Lastly I must say, Mr Minister that one of the critical points that this Government must attend to is the issue of implementing the policy of taking those who were disadvantaged before into the mainstream of the economy. The Act as it stands exposes black contractors to more powerful contractors, and hence they become fronts. I doubt hon members could show me one emerging contractor who has not been exploited in this regard. All over this country the Government gives projects to joint ventures, but, at the end of the day, those marginalised ones remain poor. Some of these contractors are actually sequestrated by the courts precisely because one finds few patriots among the big contractors.
I must say, Mr Minister, the budget …
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! That should be ``Madam Minister’’. Proceed, hon member.
Mr J S MABONA (Mpumalanga): Thank you, Chairperson.
Mpumalanga is one of the poorest provinces. We therefore appeal to all South Africans in the private sector to come forward and help this province to prosper as far as the economy is concerned. This Government alone cannot make it possible for our communities to prosper. We need money, that the country cannot afford, but the private sector, we believe, can afford.
Lastly, we welcome the Minister’s announcement that in the last financial year 100% of the budget was spent. We would welcome it if the Minister and her team would visit Mpumalanga to show us the trick. Therefore Mpumalanga supports the budget. [Applause.]
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs, comrades, let me start off by saying that I want to apologise for the fact that my MEC could not make it to this debate today owing to prior commitments that he had in the province.
Since the demise of apartheid and as a consequence of the dismantling of the Bantustans, the Department of Public Works has inherited buildings and incomplete construction projects that were often referred to as white elephants. In many cases these buildings were either standing empty, underutilised or not fully supportive of the work of the various government departments. Most of them were and are not conducive to access by disabled people, resulting in them being denied employment opportunities in the civil service.
One of the fundamental objects of the Department of Public Works is to transform this legacy and deliver infrastructure to meet the physical, social and economic needs of our population. Today we can proudly say that the department has a turnaround strategy in place and is transforming and constructing public assets for historically disadvantaged communities. Moreover, it is addressing the huge infrastructural backlogs that have rendered some rural areas almost inaccessible. This has led to the creation of sustainable employment opportunities for historically disadvantaged communities, in both rural and urban areas. It is also in line with the call by President Thabo Mbeki that together we must expand access to a better life and push back the frontiers of poverty.
Through its Community-Based Public Works Programme, which is a vital cog in the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme, the department has already had 11 projects running in the identified nodal points. It spent more than R1 billion between April 1998 and December 2000 on the 2 219 community infrastructure projects, providing employment to 98 419 rural people. In the year 2001-02 the department succeeded in creating 25 124 short-term employment opportunities, with 10 627 taken by women alone, 10 300 by youth and 527 by people with disabilities. These figures exclude the contribution made by the programme to black economic empowerment, where 85% of all the contractors participating are emerging historically disadvantaged entrepreneurs. A major social spin-off of the Community-Based Public Works Programme is that it continues to benefit communities commercially and to create sustainable jobs. Furthermore the success of this programme has generated a lot of expectation on the part of district municipalities and communities and our message would be for them to continue this engagement. This has led to the department playing in increasingly important role in social and local economic development.
In my province, the Northern Cape, communities have welcomed the launch of the multi-purpose community centres in towns like Upington and Galeshewe as another pillar of delivery by the department. These centres serve as one- stop community service centres which dispense various useful services, facilitating easy access to government and social services, such as the monthly pay-out of grants, the registration of births and marriages and social development.
Previously, owing to the geographic spread of the Northern Cape and the neglect by the former government, communities either did not have access to these services or had to travel long distances in order to gain access to them. These services are absolutely essential to the rural poor and during our imbizo week we experienced demands for more such centres, indicating that the concept actually addresses a very acute need.
We also welcome the same concept being applied to the area of criminal justice, health, welfare and sport and recreation as well as arts, culture, science and technology, where community safety centres are provided. One such community safety centre is currently under construction in the town of Galeshewe in the Northern Cape at a cost of R28 500 000. A further project is in planning at a town near Augrabies.
When we visited our provinces during the provincial week, we had the opportunity to visit the urban renewal project in Galeshewe, where we noticed that there was a street paving project under way which created about 120 jobs for our community as well as an ongoing cleaning project which created approximately 80 jobs.
Today I am glad to report that we also visited our provincial legislature. Building work is ongoing and is nearing completion and there are approximately 800 people working on this particular project. In my hometown we have a brand new police station and a new magistrates’ building that is almost completed. We want to thank the Minister for her efforts in my constituency.
We also commend the Minister and her department for introducing the repair and maintenance programme to address all these backlogs. This is most welcome since we all find ourselves at one time or another in government buildings that serve as stark reminders of the previous era. The interiors of some of these buildings do not inspire confidence and often one feels lost and uncomfortable in them, whilst others are showing serious signs of decay.
In conclusion, we have no doubt that the hon the Minister and her committed officials are making, and will continue to make, a major contribution in the fight against, and alleviation of, poverty. We thank the hon the Minister. [Applause.]
Mr C CHABANE (Northern Province): Chairperson, we are in a state of transition from Northern Province to Limpopo … [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE COUNCIL: And only we will confirm that transition.
Mr C CHABANE: But we are in still in the process of transition. We have not reached it yet.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE COUNCIL: Order! Could we ask the delegation from KwaZulu-Natal for its assistance? We are hearing a great deal of discussion from that direction. Proceed, hon member.
Mr C CHABANE: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs, members of the NCOP, given the fact that the business of this House, amongst other things, is to ensure co-ordinated and proper intergovernmental relations, I would like to thank the Minister for her efforts to ensure co-ordination between the national and provincial departments of public works.
From the perspective of a rural province with huge inherited infrastructure backlogs, I would like to make a contribution on the issue of infrastructure maintenance backlogs. It is a misconception that the executive and the legislature of a province like ours willingly choose to underbudget for the maintenance of public infrastructure. National mandates in the areas of welfare, education, health and Public Service salaries determine the allocation of almost the entire provincial budget. After meeting this mandate, there is simply not enough money left for the maintenance of infrastructure.
The introduction of the infrastructure grant by the national Treasury has improved the situation greatly. However, the infrastructure grant allocations in the MTEF are not sufficient to meet the current maintenance requirements, let alone to start attacking the maintenance backlogs or to make significant inroads into the backlogs of a capital nature. Hence, despite the existence of the infrastructure grant, our maintenance backlogs continue to grow. National Treasury has indicated that provinces should try to merge the infrastructure grant allocations, rand for rand. However, this has not been possible in our province. On the contrary, the increasing pressure on the provincial budget resulting from welfare commitments is actually resulting in a real decrease in the allocation for infrastructure from the provincial equitable share in the MTEF.
Lack of capacity to spend is not the reason for insufficient expenditure on maintenance in our province. We have been fully spending all our infrastructure grant allocations without having to roll over any funds. We have also fully spent all our flood reconstruction funds within the allocated timeframes. Furthermore, the CSIR carried out an audit of our expenditure on the reconstruction of flood-damaged roads and bridges and found that the money was spent efficiently and effectively.
In short, the shortage of money is the reason for the growing maintenance backlogs in our province. It is also preventing us from addressing our infrastructure backlogs of a capital nature at a more rapid pace. For example, we have a backlog of about 900 km of provincial roads which should be tarred. We need to tar these roads because their traffic volumes are so high that it is more expensive in the long term to maintain them as gravel roads than to tar them and then maintain them as tarred roads. We need R1,5 billion to address this particular infrastructure need alone. However, this financial year we were able to budget only R60 million to tar approximately 40 km of roads. Based on the MTEF figures from the provincial treasury, we will not be able to budget at all for tarring roads in the next financial year.
In this highly constrained financial environment, it is difficult for us to make a meaningful infrastructural contribution to the Integrated Rural Development Strategy. We cannot focus all our scarce resources on our two rural developmental nodes as this will result in the rapid deterioration of infrastructure elsewhere in the province where there are also high levels of poverty. Additional funding is required for the development of infrastructure in the nodes.
As far as the Community-Based Public Works Programme is concerned, I think our main challenge is to find a way of providing ongoing support to income- generating projects after they have been established with funding from the programme. Some of the projects in the Northern Province became dysfunctional some time after being established. We need to find a way of ensuring that projects remain sustainable as far as possible. Secondly, it is very important to ensure that we capacitate municipalities and district councils that are implementing agents for this programme to be able to manage it properly.
I would also like to commend and support the MEC from Mpumalanga with regard to the problems encountered with the Preferential Procurement Policy Act. In our assessment and experience so far, it is becoming clear that if we move at the current pace and implement the Act as it is, five to ten years from now we will not have what we would call affirmed black contractors for several reasons. The Act is good, short and to the point. It is able to give very clear direction as to what to do when we deal with procurement, but the manner in which it is structured creates a constraint which will make it impossible for emerging contractors to succeed. We have therefore, as a department, requested the national Minister to look again at some sections of that Act, and I hope we will be able to come back here to ask for guidance.
Finally, I would like to congratulate the Minister on the establishment of the Construction Industry Development Board. We will be participating in the stakeholders’ forum linked to the CIDB. We are currently in the process of training emerging contractors in labour-based road maintenance in partnership with the government of Lesotho, and we look forward to sharing our construction industry development experiences with our stakeholders through the CIDB. We hope that the work of the CIDB will help address some of the problems faced by us and the construction industry in our province.
We believe that the register of contractors described in the CIDB Act will assist us to improve our management of the procurement of services from the construction industry. We are also hopeful that the CIDB will create a better enabling environment for black economic empowerment in the construction industry.
The hon the Minister would note that in terms of the other nine languages, the Department of Public Works is easily mistaken for the Department of Labour or a department of employment. But in actual fact what the Department of Public Works is doing is basically the maintenance and management of state assets, not the creation of jobs. If we want to do that, a higher budget will have to be allocated. Mr O G MADODA (North West): Chairperson, hon Minister Sigcau, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the Budget Vote before us here today represents both progress and hope for all of us. It represents progress because the collective success that we have been able to record over the past eight years, in the face of backlogs and constrained budgets, is very encouraging. There have also been milestones that have been achieved in critical areas, as the Minister has said today. Budget underexpenditure is a thing of the past. Spending close on 100% of the budget in the past financial year is no mean achievement and should be maintained that way.
In the same vein, the maintenance of state property has been a painful thing to all of us. We have watched the deterioration, in many respects, of state properties, because of a lack of upkeep. Today we are encouraged that the Minister has mentioned that they now have a repair and maintenance programme that will ensure that we do have this maintenance. Again, we are encouraged by the new standard lease agreements that have been introduced, so that the landlords do not abuse the discretionary and ad hoc agreements that they make with government officials.
What we appreciate most are two things: firstly, the economic transformation that is going on. We have heard members from other provinces mentioning the limitations of the procurement policies, but, to the extent that we have been able to bring a significant number of black people and women into the mainstream of the economy as we have, it is quite a good thing. We believe that this will contribute positively to socioeconomic development, but also, it will bring political stability as more and more of our people see themselves as part of the new order.
We therefore wish to join with other provinces in encouraging the department to continue to strengthen these efforts. The banks should really give black people and women access to finance and suppliers of materials should help this process. We also appreciate the delivery that is going on. The Community-Based Public Works Programme is delivering classrooms, clinics, roads and multipurpose centres in many rural areas and, in the process, jobs are, of course, being created. We could go on and on about these positive developments.
In the North West, for example, the provincial legislature has adopted a programme called Adopt a School. Through this programme, each member of the legislature adopts a school and looks after it. Now, about two months back, one member of the legislature, the hon Masilo, went to adopt a school called Tshepo, in Garankuwa. We found that school in a dilapidated state and it was very old. Today, as a result of this Adopt a School campaign, the businesses in the area have been able to donate material, professionals are bringing skills and parents are bringing their labour. The department of public works is only assisting here and there and we hope that in due course that school will be back in its original condition. We also believe that if people come together in that manner, we will not see the kind of vandalism that has been going on in schools, because they have their own local equity in that building. There are just a few things that we want to mention from our side as the province. Firstly, there appears to be a need for more co-ordination between the department, the provincial departments and municipalities. In the North West province, for example, the provincial department believes that with regard to the Community-Based Public Works Programme, the funds that are now going directly to municipalities are not getting value for money because there is a lack of capacity and it seems as if they do not have enough say in those projects. Therefore, there should be more co- ordination between all these three levels.
We also wish to stress the importance of having to inculcate responsibility among communities, especially through local leaders, to prevent abuse of state property. Sometimes the levels of theft and vandalism in schools and other state properties are painful. It becomes clear at such times that the repairing and maintaining of these buildings would be counterproductive. It is therefore important that these values and goals that we have of Letsima, Vukuzenzele and the moral renewal campaign should include the things that talk about respect for our properties.
The North West legislature has had the privilege to receive the national Portfolio Committee on Public Works, and together we visited four military bases. None of these bases are used by the military any longer and are therefore being handed back to the Department of Public Works. The theft and vandalism that we saw there is very high. In one area, at a base called Buxton, in Taung, we found that geysers, fridges and stoves were all being gutted, and it is a fairly new base. When we spoke to the local council, they told us that they had repeatedly written letters to the department of public works in the province to request them to find a use for that building but to no avail.
We therefore believe that the public partnerships that could arise out of that could save that property. With regard to the ISRDP, members of this NCOP last week visited our province, and together with them we went to a cross-border district called Kgalagadi. The council and the community there took us round, showing us the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme. Now, Kgalagadi is one of those nodes that have been identified nationally, and last year around this time, the President launched the ISRDP there. Here we found that there is good progress in projects that amount to just under R1 billion. We saw the fruits of this programme in the public infrastructure that is now coming up. There is a lot of enthusiasm on local economic development and numerous projects were shown to us.
All state departments are taking part and the continued support of both the provincial and national departments of public works is appreciated. There are also good public-private partnerships in that programme. For example, Eskom is working with the council to bring lights to that area, but the kind of light that they are bringing is not the usual one that we know. These lights are somehow cheaper and use cleaner technology.
In conclusion, we from the North West want to see the department spared to keep on doing a good job and we support this Vote. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I hope that Dr Radebe is going to introduce some energy. I understand that members are feeling very hot and tired this afternoon.
Dr B M RADEBE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, I think I should start by launching a protest. The microphones need to be raised for some of us who may not be of normal size. [Laughter.] I would like to congratulate the national Minister and her deputy on the improvement in service delivery throughout the country, in particular in our province.
Having said that, I would like to emphasise that KwaZulu-Natal is one of the largest provinces in South Africa. We also have the largest population and the largest area that is underdeveloped. We are pleased to announce that the KwaZulu-Natal district councils have been allocated approximately R74 million.
The Community-Based Public Works Programme, CBPWP, is a poverty relief and transformation programme. It has a role in transforming the construction industry, with respect to labour-intensive construction, poverty relief and integrated rural planning.
The programme is targeted at rural areas where normal municipal infrastructure investments are not made. The CBPWP utilises a transparent, equitable, poverty-targeting formula and promotes financial accountability at the local government level. The targeting formula promotes financial accountability at local level.
An amount is allocated to each municipality in terms of the transparent targeting formula. On the basis of this allocation, the municipality then identifies appropriate projects within the allocation amount. The targeting formula, informed by the October household survey and census data, focuses on population and poverty indices in order to ensure that allocations are appropriately utilised. We stress the importance of, and commend the national Department of Public Works for setting aside money to conduct, proper planning. This has boosted the provincial co-ordinating committee’s ability to identify and approve only projects that are viable.
With regard to emerging contractors I want to concur with the MECs for Mpumalanga and the Northern Province. I think the national Government needs to do something about these contractors. On 15 May 2002 we were approached by emerging contractors at Ladysmith in the Tugela region. The major complaint was that they were still not getting benefits from these contractors. They are abused by those big companies with whom they have to compete. We want to appeal to the Minister to see to it that these emerging contractors are not abused.
The portfolio committee in KwaZulu-Natal conducted visits from 15 to 22 May 2002 to all 11 district municipalities where we inspected projects initiated by the department of public works. We were happy with all the projects, except a few where there was no proper communication between the provincial department and the national and local governments. It sometimes creates a problem when we see a huge project has been launched, but nobody in the province knows about that project. On a number of occasions we have seen project launches on television or heard about them on radio for the first time. The launches at Port Shepstone, Nongoma and Ngwavuma are a few of the recent project launches that the portfolio committee was not even aware of. We find that this lack of communication between the national, provincial and local government structures needs to be corrected.
We feel that it is important to strengthen the relationship and the communication between the three spheres of government. We call on the Government to play a bigger role in an effort to co-ordinate this project. This is of paramount importance as it will ensure that communication between the three portfolio committees and the province improves.
The committee and the province feel that we have to be involved in the earlier stages of budget planning of the department. This can only lead to positive outcomes as it will avoid duplication of work and the sense of confrontation.
In conclusion, I would like to stress that KwaZulu-Natal cannot survive on the current allocations. We urge the Minister to increase our budget in order for us to be able to deal with poverty and the poorest of the poor, in order for them to receive development.
I have noticed that the national Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs is here. Ngithi-ke kumkhaya wami ngizosho ekhaya ukuthi ngimbonile. [To my home-fellow, I would like to say that I would tell people at home that I have seen him.]
I think as a province we are very happy and very excited about the role the national Minister and her department are playing in our province. As I said, we did visit a few projects of all the different municipalities in our province. What we have discovered is that there are areas where one finds that there is a huge project of R3 million, but it is in isolation, because there was no proper communication between the three tiers of government, for example the one at Majuba, where we went on 16 May. It is a R3,5 million project. In order for the public to use that facility, they need to catch a taxi. The council just decided to put that project there and in this case there was no proper communication between the council, the district council and the provincial government.
We support the budget and appeal to our Minister, if she comes to our province, to inform us. When we see Minister opening a project, but nobody from the province is there … [Time expired.]
Nk M XULU (KwaZulu-Natal): Sihlalo, mhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe nePhini lakhe - uMfu uNondaba ongumfundisi wami nabahlonishwa bonke abakhona, kuyintokozo kimina ukuba ngibe yingxenye yokuxoxa ngalesi sabelo salo mNyango. Kuzoba yinkinga-ke ukuthi siphuma ndawonye, sikhuluma izinto ezifanayo kodwa sibe singahleli ndawonye. Kodwa-ke ayikho into engenzeka ngoba kusho ukuthi kuyasetshenzwa KwaZulu.
Kulo nyaka ophelile saba nenhlanhla yokuba kufike amalungu asezingeni likazwelonke ekomidi lalo mNyango. Ayeholwa umhlonishwa iNkosi uMashasha - iNkosi uHlengwa. Sahambela izindawo ezehlukene safike sabona imisebenzi eminingi futhi emikhulu ezindaweni ezehlukene, njengesibhedlela esilaphaya eThekwini ogama laso kuthiwa yiNkosi Albert Luthuli. Sabona futhi nendawo yokuphumula elaphaya eMpangeni, e-Port Dunford, ekade ivulwa nje zolo lokhu ngabahlonishwa oNgqongqoshe behamba bobabili, bebambisene futhi kukuhle kudelile.
Okwaba kuhle kwaba ukubona abahlonishwa bebambisene emazingeni womathathu: elikazwelonke - umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe uSigcau, umhlonishwa iPhini lakhe
- umfundisi; umhlonishwa uNyambose ophethe umNyango waKwaZulu-Natali; nomhlonishwa imeya yesifunda - uNyambose. Mhlawumbe ngephutha kuthiwa bathathu kanti bane. Lokho kunika abantu ithemba uma bebona uHulumeni edilika, ehlangane nabanye, eza phansi kubo emazingeni aphansi.
Into embi nje ukuthi isikhathi esisinikwayo sincane. Ngibhale le nkulumo yami ngazi ukuthi mithathu imizuzu engiyinikiwe. Nokho-ke, ngiyabonga ukuthi ibuye yathi ukwengezwa kancane.
Sengathi lesi sabelo singaya kulezo zindawo ikakhulukazi ezasala emuva kakhulu ngenxa kahulumeni owayengabanakile abantu abantulayo. Siyathokoza ukuzwa ukuthi isabelo sethu siyilelo nani amalungu abelisho, okuyizigidi zamarandi ezingu-70.
Sengathi zingafezeka izinjongo ezibhalwe kuleli phepha lesabiwomali, ikakhulukazi mayelana nokufundisa imisebenzi labo abekade becindezelwe. Leyo yimisebenzi engaze ibenze babe ngosonkontileka. Abesifazane, ikakhulukazi, yibona okumele basizwe ngoba yibona ababhekene nobunzima bokondla imindeni. Yibona ababhekene nesimo esinzima emindenini lapho isala nezintandane ngenxa yesifo esikhona. Yibona ababhekena namakhaya lapho obaba besathathwe yizipawupethe. Ngakho-ke, kumele kwazeke ukuthi uma umuntu ethuthukisa oyedwa wesifazane, usuke esiza isizwe.
Siyawubonga umNyango wezemiSebenzi laphaya kithi KwaZulu-Natali ngoba usuqale nokufundisa abantu abakade bengakwazi ukuzibhalela nokuzifundela kanye nokuzivulela izinkontileka zabo. Nokho-ke kusesekuseni - kusho ukuthi kothi kuba ntambama kobe sekubonakala ukuthi ukhona umsebenzi owenziwayo.
Ngabe ngenze kabi uma ngingabonganga nakuhulumeni wakithi omdala waKwaZulu ngoba nguye owakha ezinye zezinto ezaba khona, ezakha ngezimali ezincane ababenikwa zona. Waze wakha ngisho naleliya phalamende laKwaZulu-Natali, okuyilona umuntu ezwa kukhulunywa ngalo futhi eselizosala libe yile ndlovu emhlophe okuhlala kukhulunywa ngayo. Zizothuthuka kanjani lezi zakhiwo ezishiywayo thina mphakathi esazidonsela ngezithukuthuku zethu futhi esakhipha emaphakatheni ethu ngazo? Ngiyadlula lapho, bengisika elijikayo. Sengathi umNyango ungaqhubeka nokwakha izizinda zemisebenzi eziqoqela ndawonye ezibizwa ngama-clusters ezindaweni zasemakhaya ukuze kusizakale labo abahamba amabanga amade uma beyofuna izinto abazidingayo, njengokuyocela izimpesheni nokufuna izitifiketi. Kungaba ngcono uma izakhiwo zonke zizokwakhiwa zibe ndawonye ngoba abanye bahamba amakhilomitha angaphezu kwama-50 behambela nje ukuyofuna impesheni. Umuntu afike laphaya kuthiwe akobuya ngosuku olulandelayo. Sekuyofuneka futhi aye koboleka imali ukuze aphindele futhi aye kofuna leyo mpesheni. Uma kwakhiwe eduze kwabo abantu, kulethwa kubo, bazokwazi ukuthi basizakale.
Sengathi ikakhulukazi uma sekwenziwa konke lokhu kungaqalwa ngakithi laphaya eNsabekhuluma ngoba phela ngizalwa khona. Bathi nabakholwayo, oNondaba, uma umuntu ebona uthi esweni lomunye, umuntu akosusa olwakhe kuqala. Umuntu makasuse uthi esweni lakhe ukuze akwazi ukubona elomfowethu. Akuqalwe kithi-ke manje uma kwakhiwa lezo zizinda eziqoqela ndawonye ukuze abantu babone ukuthi sikhona ePhalamende, siyabasiza.
Okokugcina, thina KwaZulu-Natali siyasesekela lesi sabiwomali. [Ihlombe.]
USIHLALO WOMKHANDLU KAZWELONKE WEZIFUNDAZWE: Thulani! Ngibonga kakhulu mhlonishwa ngoba usincedile. Ubavusile abantu bethu. (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)
[Mrs M XULU: Chairperson, hon Minister and her deputy, Rev Nondaba, and other hon members who are in this House, it is my pleasure to take part in the budget debate of this department. It would be a problem if we did not plan together while coming from the same place and speaking about the same things. However, nothing can be done, because it means that people are working in KwaZulu-Natal.
Last year we were fortunate to be visited by members from the national Government who are members of the committee of this department. They were led by inkosi Mashasha - inkosi Hlengwa. We visited many places and we saw many big projects in different places, like a hospital in Durban, which is known as the iNkosi Albert Luthuli Hospital. We also saw a holiday resort in Mpangeni, Port Dunford, which was opened recently by the two hon Ministers. They were together in this and it was a good thing indeed.
What was really good was to see Ministers from all three levels of government working together - that was hon Minister Sigcau and her Deputy, Rev Nyambose, who is the provincial minister in KwaZulu-Natal, and the hon mayor of the region, Nyambose. Perhaps it is wrong to say that there were three, as in fact they were four. It gives people hope to see the national Government coming to join with others at the lower levels.
The bad thing is that the time we are given is very short. When I wrote this speech, I knew that I had only three minutes. However, I am thankful for the fact that my time has been extended a little bit.
We wish that this budget would go to those places that were left behind because of the government who ignored poor people. We are happy to hear that our budget is the amount that members had mentioned, which is R70 million.
We wish that the goals that are listed in the budget would be fulfilled, especially regarding the passing on of skills to those who were previously oppressed. Those jobs could turn them into contractors. Women are the ones to be assisted, because they are faced with the challenge of feeding their families. They are the ones who are faced with difficult situations in the families where they are left with orphans because of the present disease. They are the ones who are left with families when beautiful ladies take fathers away. Therefore, it should be known that if one empowers a woman, one is empowering the nation.
We thank the department of public works in KwaZulu-Natal for starting to teach illiterate people and people who were unable to open their own contracting businesses. Now it is morning. When the afternoon comes it will be clear that some work has been done.
I would be making a mistake if I did not thank our old government in KwaZulu-Natal for building some of the things that we have. It built those things with the little money that it was given. It even built Parliament in KwaZulu-Natal, which we always hear about and which will be left alone. How are those buildings that we as a community built going to be improved if we leave them, while we built them with our own sweat and even paid for them? Let me move on, I just mentioned that point in passing.
We wish the department to continue to provide cluster infrastructure in the rural areas so as to help those who travel long distances to get to what they want, like applying for a pension and asking for certificates. It would be better if all infrastructure is built in one place, because some people have to travel more than 50 km to apply for a pension. When a person gets there he is told to come tomorrow. Then he has to borrow some money so that he can go to apply for a pension again. If these things are built in one place and closer to the people, they could be helped easily.
I wish that when the time comes to initiate these programmes, they should also be initiated in my area, Nsabekhuluma, where I was born. Even as the Christians, like Nondaba, say: ``When you see a mote in someone else’s eye, first take the beam out of your own eye.’’ One must take the beam out of his eyes so that he would be able to see the motes in the eye of his brother. That cluster infrastructure should be started in our areas so that people can see that we are in Parliament, and that we are helping them.
Lastly, we in KwaZulu-Natal support this budget. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Thank you very much for your help. You woke our people up.]
Ms T ESSOP (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members of the House, I recently took over the portfolio of public works as part of the transport and public works portfolio in the Western Cape. I had the good fortune of meeting with the Minister recently and she was surprised to see another new MEC from the Western Cape. [Laughter.] I am hoping that we will finally have stability in the Western Cape. We are looking forward to stability in the Western Cape, and I am sure hon members are all watching the news keenly to see this happen.
I am pleased to say and announce in this House that I believe there is stability in the Western Cape Cabinet around one very important matter and that is that our focus and bias should be on towards the poor in the Western Cape. That remains a clear objective in the Western Cape and we remain committed in our Cabinet to that particular aspect. The Department of Public Works has a very important role to play in terms of that objective. We both have the power to deliver in terms of social delivery and in terms of economic empowerment.
I believe we have an opportunity to deliver both socially and economically with the Western Cape budget of R197 million for maintenance and upgrading of our buildings, plus an additional amount of R141 million which will be allocated to the construction of new projects. The increase of R85 million that we have towards infrastructure will provide us with a very important opportunity to deliver.
However, I do want to indicate, like many of the provinces here, that we still have a backlog in maintenance of R1,2 billion, and we are looking at exciting ways of trying to address that backlog through new means of funding.
There are two opportunities that we are very clear about in the Western Cape branch of public works and they are job creation and the empowerment of previously disadvantaged businesses. In the Western Cape, specifically, we have a backlog to address. I want to be honest and frank about this in that we have a backlog of almost seven to eight years in the Western Cape when it comes to the empowerment of PDI companies.
PDI companies are looking forward to a new regime and a new way of doing things. This public works branch of my department is very committed to ensuring that we address the backlog when it comes to emerging PDI contractors. In that process, I have now put in place two units, a unit that will be looking at unbundling our contract so that we can empower small contractors and a second unit that will look at the monitoring and evaluation of the empowerment of previously disadvantaged individuals and companies. Although we have policies in place, it is in the implementation that we are not actually reaching the ground in relation to PDI empowerment.
Over and above that, I am proud to say that the ABE - affirmative business enterprise - contractor development and support programme covers our building of roads, and will now also include public works and the work we do in public works programmes. We cannot allow PDIs to become disempowered by not building their capacity.
I had an example recently in my own department when offices were being painted. The department understood that I was very serious about the empowerment of PDIs and managed to secure a small African contractor. The one thing that was missing was that my department did not look at the capacity and building the capacity of that small individual businessperson. Therefore, for example, the contractor did not have a ladder. They employed two people who did not have money for public transport to come to work to be able to do this job and who had to take out loans in the township so that they too could come to work and be empowered.
It is that missing perspective in the department that we need to ensure changes in the Western Cape. We will look at how to build the capacity of our smaller contractors - the people who are taking the initiative to create an opportunity. When they are given the opportunity, we need to see that the capacity is there for them to become empowered and eventually become stronger, bigger businesses.
The PDI companies must not remain subcontractors forever. We are hoping, through this programme, that we will support that, and I know that nationally all of this has been done; the Western Cape needs to play catch- up. I want to talk about the Community-Based Public Works Programme. This programme did not exist when I took over this portfolio in the Western Cape. I believe 1996 was the last time that we had funding from the national Public Works Department for such a programme. Since then we have had no funding, but the programme also does not exist.
We have, however, got a community access road programme, which is similar to the Community-Based Public Works Programme, and we also have poverty alleviation projects, funded by Sandral, as part of those projects. I heard that when the hon the Minister listed allocations to provinces, the Western Cape was not included. I understand and I accept that nationally the need for funding to address poverty is a big one, but I think we also need to understand, in this House specifically - and I have said this in the transport budget debate - that in the Western Cape we also have poverty. We have very serious pockets of poverty in the Western Cape. Maybe there is a sense nationally that because we are far more advantaged in the Western Cape, we do not need it. We should not miss the reality that there are very serious pockets of poverty. Our national President has indicated two nodes in the Western Cape, an urban node and a rural node, the Central Karoo. We have very exciting projects in the Central Karoo that fit in with the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme, but those are roads-related projects. We are funding it out of our roads budget. I am appealing to the Minister. I understand that the budget has been reduced, but I ask the Minister if there is still an opportunity to be able to give us some allocation. I have asked my department to put in R3 million from Public Works, as a sign of good faith that we are putting Community-Based Public Works Programmes back on the agenda in the Western Cape.
It will be highly appreciated and I appeal to the Minister, if it is still possible for her to look at an allocation, albeit a small one, as a sign that we can work together, co-operatively, on the Community-based Public Works Programme in the Western Cape.
The other element of my portfolio is that of property management, and I want to say that, when taking over this portfolio, I instructed my department to take a conservative approach to the disposal of land and property. I believe we could have inadvertently been selling off the family silver. I have inherited a portfolio where I believe that we have been selling off our family silver.
Disposal of property and land is now … We could say there is now some kind of moratorium on it. We will now be disposing of property and land when we have a proper strategic understanding of what we want to do there. The bias towards ensuring that our land and our property are used for the development of our previously disadvantaged community, for low-cost housing, for meeting the social delivery needs, is going to be extremely important on this agenda.
Also, I do want to say to the hon the Minister that we have land in areas where previously disadvantaged communities have never had access, and will probably not be able to afford to have access to. I am very seriously looking at how we use those important pieces of land to redress our legacy of the past, and allow our previously disadvantaged communities to have an opportunity to live in areas that were not available for access in the past. So we do have a strong bias. I want to say in this House today that we are extremely committed to undoing the legacy of the past, and also to undoing the backlog that we face in the Western Cape.
We are firmly back in the new South Africa. The Western Cape has come home, and I want to put that message across in this House. [Applause.] If we do not have our own Western Cape members howling against their MEC!
I just want to conclude. I am personally committed to working with the hon the Minister in a co-operative and healthy relationship to address the broader objectives that we face in this country. I am pleased to say that, as I said, we have come home, and I am looking forward to working with her in that co-operative manner. The hon the Minister’s experience of the Western Cape might have been different, but I want to put on record that it is going to change, and has changed. We support the budget. [Applause.]
Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs present here, special delegates and hon members, the projects which have been implemented by the department are based on five broad categories which include improved access to trade opportunities. This category will enhance the rural road network so as to improve access and facilitate community markets. This category is directly productive. These projects will provide ongoing sustainable employment, such as agricultural food slots, small-scale irrigation, recycling waste collection, and stop dams.
We in the ANC support the Vote. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Madam Chairperson, hon members, MECs and members of the police who are present here, I must thank everybody for the contribution they have made, because even in those areas where people were raising issues of concern, they also came up with solutions. It has always been my belief that we have to be constructive in our criticism. I thank members for that. Also, if members did not raise some of these issues, we would blindly think that everything at home was fine, only to find that here and there we still have areas which we needed to cover.
I will not reply to individuals, but I will look at areas which cropped up every now and again. One of the very first speakers spoke about the issue of leases. I want to assure the hon member, I think it is Mr Raju, that we have done a lot of homework. We have actually renegotiated a number of these leases to suit our ends, and in Public Works we can no longer talk about rentals which are paid even beyond the period of the contract. We have even taken issues a step further by making sure that what we lease is of good quality, and that some of the repairs which unfortunately we used to carry, are actually the repairs which must be carried by the landlord himself, because it is his property that we are leasing.
Also, with regard to the buildings that are no longer in use, I want to assure members that we do not simply sell as if it is one of those disposals which do not take into account the needs of the country. Our policy is that before a property can be disposed of we must check that there is no provincial local interest in the property and no future use for such a property even at the level of national Government. Then we have to dispose of that property. In the final analysis, if we sit on some of these properties, the Government is going to lose a lot of money because we have to pay rates and taxes, and we have to minimise that type of expenditure for the Government. It does not mean that maybe here and there mistakes of judgment are not made, but we are trying to really refine our procedures so that we do not make such mistakes.
There was also talk of Public Works as a job creator. We are currently answering to one of the issues that was raised by the President in his speech. He actually, in my interpretation, really wanted to hear the crunching of the stones, the hammer working, the shovels moving, in a massive Public Works Programme, which would employ a lot of people.
We are working on something which we still have to discuss further with a number of stakeholders, for we want to believe that certain things will have to be agreed on upfront. If we want to employ as many people as possible, we cannot afford to have communities who will say, on a standard wage we shall create, and that we should pay more, because it will still take us back to a situation where we would have to employ a few specialised people.
We are working towards a situation in which we shall use machinery if and when it is necessary to do so but, broadly speaking, we shall use as much manual labour as possible. I know that the very people who are saying today, ``Let us have more jobs,’’ will come back to this House, if a road takes 12 months as against the nine months it would have taken with machinery, and say we are slow. Hence I am saying, in talking about this broad strategy of development, that we have to understand one another very well and come to some agreement, because it is one of those strategies and one of those innovations we have to work at together.
There is a backlog - that is a fact - but through some of the strategies which I mentioned in my speech we are trying, both at the level of the national Government and at that of the provinces, to make a difference. Of course the broader difference can be made by what the financial package is each time that we move on these issues. We have also started on a strategy which is helpful to us as Public Works, in that it is the client departments that must say what it is that they want to do with their budget that particular year.
There was a member who was talking about police stations in a certain area
- I think it must have been in the Western Province and I want to encourage that particular colleague to go to the department of police and tell them what the problem is. They will prioritise and then our department, as the implementing agent, will deal with the issue. We have stopped keeping money for other departments. They keep it themselves, they tell us what to do and then we act on their needs.
I am happy that it looks like everything is working very well in the Northern Cape. We are looking forward to the day when we open that legislature, because all the land came from Public Works for absolutely nothing to make sure that hon members’ government moved on. The community safety centres are an important fixture. The same applies to the multipurpose community centres. With the knowledge that we have, moneys being available, we have realised that almost every district is in need of these community centres.
Concerning construction, at times I get jealous of my colleague here, Thoko, when she has to call the farmers to the committee with the President or when Trade and Industry has to talk about manufacturing, because I feel that construction should also be taken as an asset of Government to which we pay a lot of attention. It is through construction that our plans for the future can be realised. We can talk of Southern Africa, we can talk of Nepad, but who are going to be the builders or constructors? We are gearing ourselves up, through the Construction Industry Development Board and other fora that we are going to have, as was mentioned by the MEC from Limpopo, for changing construction into something which all hon members will give a nod and regard as a national asset.
It is true that, like the rest of this House, we are also worried about the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act, but fortunately there have been discussions between us and national Treasury and I am informed by my officials that there is a committee which will be looking further into this so that, instead of it being an obstruction, we can look at something that will open up the gates for all the people for procurement to become a reality, not an obstruction.
Every time I come to this House we talk about capacity. I think a number of colleagues can help us if they spread the news to all the people in their constituencies and even the people in construction that there is a department which is doing a lot of wonderful work in equipping our people with skills. When we start on any project which is of a building nature, we always take members of that community to be trained at some of the skills centres of the Department of Labour so that they do not just turn into people who use the wheelbarrow and the spade, but begin to acquire to skills in various areas.
We also had the problem, in the Western Cape, for instance, of certification. We knew that there were a lot of people who actually could do work of a specific kind but were not certificated. When we had to count the numbers we found that we had a paucity of such people. But a lot of work has been done in different avenues to make sure that people are certificated in the true sense of the word and the Department of Labour has come to our help and has been on the forefront.
The question of the sustainability of projects is something we are working at. Initially projects were there, but there was never capital to kickstart a project. How can one go to a poor area and put up the infrastructure without allowing people the funds to start the project? One of the areas that we have kickstarted is that of the community production centres, and I am happy that my colleague the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs is here because it is one of those formidable partnerships that we have formed which is beginning to unwind and is going to create dynamic economies in some of our districts.
Members saw what was happening in Elandskraal. If we had time, they would see what we are going to be doing in Mpumalanga. I think if we unroll what we have in the rural areas, especially in the line of what my colleague here deals with in agriculture, with my department providing the necessary infrastructure, we can turn South Africa into a pantry for the rest of Africa. Does my colleague agree with me?
We have to provide infrastructure. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs comes with policies and plans. She comes with the right crop, because we do not know, we might go and plant chillies where maize would do better. With their guidance as the Department of Agriculture, we want to believe that we can change the whole scenario. But that scenario can only change if the mindset of our people also changes and they realise that they cannot get employment only in the cities, that the rural areas too can provide a living for the people provided the provinces and the local authorities get sufficient funding to roll out the necessary infrastructure.
In my speech in the National Assembly I did mention that we are trying our level best to help our previously disadvantaged people to access finance. We want to mention in particular the IDC, which has come to our rescue, so that money could be made available. We have tried to create jobs and contracts that are specifically for the previously disadvantaged. We even had money rolled out - I think it was about R128 million - specifically for women in construction and we have a number of other projects which are for the previously disadvantaged.
If one were to go to Port Elizabeth, to St Alban’s Prison, one would see the most wonderful work which has been done by somebody who used to be historically disadvantaged, but is now an entrepreneur in his own right. If there is one expression I will hate to hear five years from now it is ``previously disadvantaged’’. If we hear that word being used in the near future, then something will have gone wrong somewhere.
I do not want to waste time, and all members agreed with our speech. In reply to a concern about a lack of co-ordination, I want to correct the hon members from KwaZulu-Natal. We always inform the provinces and fortunately we have an MEC for public works who is present at all our launches.
The other thing is that the implementing agents for our projects are the district municipalities, which must see to it that councillors are also present. What I will correct is our omitting to invite people from the NCOP, who must go to functions that relate to their provinces. That is where we might have missed the point, but at the provincial and local levels we definitely have not missed the boat. Also I want to emphasise that when we came into Government we said we were going to have the Basotho hat in coming up with projects. No more were we going to get a situation where national Government thinks of projects.
Njengokuthi nje kuthi uma ngilele ebusuku ngiphuphe oTshabalala balaphaya lapho ngangendele khona bese ngithi cha, ngizoya koqala imisebenzi yamaprojekthi KwaZulu, eLadysmith. [For instance, like dreaming about Shabala people at night, when I am asleep. This is the clan of my husband, and because they are in Ladysmith I will say that I will go and start projects in Ladysmith in KwaZulu-Natal.]
What we do now is actually tell local government that they must say what their priorities are, and then discuss them with provincial government for support. Then, through the integrated strategy, we say that those are the priorities of the people, because otherwise I might go and put in electricity where the people might want water as their first priority.
Asiphuphi manje. Sitshelwa futhi sikhonjiswe ngamalungu lokho okufanele sikwenze, bese sikwenza. Kodwa-ke uMnambithi wanginika umyeni omuhle futhi engangimthanda. [We do not just dream, we are told and shown by members what we should do, and then we do it. But Ladysmith gave me a good husband, whom I love.]
Maybe some hon members do not know that I was married and now I am Mrs Tshabalala. [Interjections.] Kwazulu-Natal!
There is a lot of vandalism going on, and honestly I would appeal to all hon members to make a point of protecting what we have. In some cases, despite the asset register, properties remain hidden and people are not keen to change that. I think the Western Cape will have to help us a great deal in saying who owns what. I am saying this based on an experience that I once mentioned at a media briefing. Last year we came across a big piece of land, where somebody was staying. It was only after we had discovered the land that the person was even put in a position to pay the rent.
I think I have covered some of the major issues that the hon members came up with. If there are still some concerns, the hon members know that my department has an open-door policy. They can write to us and we will deal with their concerns. I can assure the hon member from the Western Cape that we are not putting all the money into the Eastern Cape. We are allocating money according to population, poverty and performance.
I do not want to single out KwaZulu-Natal, even if they belong to that party with whom we are in Government, but the truth of the matter is that if one gives them money, they deliver. We would like to see more of that. But all the provinces must try their level best, and I hope that one day I can set up a competition to find the province that works the fastest on the delivery of poverty-related projects. [Applause.] Debate concluded.
LAND AND AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT BANK BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, my colleagues the Minister and Deputy Minister of Public Works, MECs from the provinces, the chairperson of the select committee and the managing director and staff of the Land Bank, I want to say to my home boy Dr Radebe that indeed he must tell them that he saw me in the NCOP today. Further than that, the hon member needs to send a message to the farmers of Sankontshe and Camperdown, saying that because of the co-operation between them in the province and the Government at national level, we were able to deal with the foot-and- mouth disease. Today South Africa has regained its FMD-free status through the OIE. [Applause.]
I want to thank this House and Dr Radebe for the work that he has done, together with the members of the portfolio committee in KwaZulu- Natal, as well as the MEC. They did not regard our intervention as intrusion by the national Government. They understood that agriculture was a system that could never be broken down into small pieces, and therefore that when the disease struck we all needed to work together to succeed.
I am grateful for the commitment that was made by some hon members, ensuring that they did not rest but help us persuade the community to understand that what we had to do, spraying them sometimes and going in and out of their villages, was necessary, not just for themselves but for the South African economy. I think it is important that we actually thank those people, particularly the rural community and the poor farmers who had one or two cattle in Sankotshe and had to accept that sometimes they had to lose the few head of livestock that they had.
Raising this issue about foot-and-mouth in part tells us that agricultural development in South Africa is no more an issue about where people go when they retire. Even the historically disadvantaged communities understand that agriculture is also vital for their economic livelihood and therefore important.
In the Reconstruction and Development Programme as a policy framework of this Government, amongst other things that were identified was the challenge that we needed to deal with in creating a united, prosperous agricultural sector in South Africa. It acknowledged the need for land and agrarian reform in our society, given the legacy of our past.
The reason we are here today to debate the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill is about ensuring that indeed we advance issues of transformation that were identified in the RDP and further in our sectoral policies on land and agriculture. It is also about deepening out democracy and thereby creating opportunity for the participation of all our people in the economy of this country,
Farmers in the farming community are important people in our economic growth. They are the producers of food and fibre for our nation. These are the people who today will benefit from the amendments made in this legislation. They are the people without whom South Africa cannot boast of food self-sufficiency at national level, without whom South Africa cannot be the world player, albeit small, in the world market in agricultural goods.
They are also the individuals and communities that contribute to the country’s rural economy and are therefore critical players in rural development. Through their participation in the land care programme, one of our flagship programmes which helps to educate all of us about why we need to take care of our land as well as how we need to be responsible in making sure as we work it, we are able to create the possibility of sustainable management of our natural resources. It is these people who create the greenery in the rural areas, who make sure that our environment is sustainable.
It is therefore in our interests, as this House, to make sure that we create an enabling environment that will make these individuals and their communities succeed. The review of this legislation will make it possible for oMaZondi to feel welcome in this institution, which over the year had no mechanism to address their needs. It will also ensure that Meneer Botha feels as much a valuable client of this institution of the state. Our approach as the Land Bank is that in attempting a development agenda, we are not going to lose our economic viability and therefore we are not going to dump our commercial clients.
Members will recall that in 1996 Cabinet approved the recommendations of the Strauss commission on rural finance, which imposed certain obligations on the Land Bank. It meant the Land Bank had to take over the functions of the former Agricultural Credit Board, which was known as the bank of last resort. Interestingly, these institutions dealt with those who needed resources and were deemed unbankable by the private financial institutions, even the Land Bank at that stage. Even though it was not accessible to oMaZondi, it, however, recognised the fact that if one needed a stable rural environment one had to support these individuals and their communities.
Hon members would recall that at that time, when both the Land Bank and the Agricultural Credit Board were established, it was an attempt to deal with the poor white problem in the 1930s in South Africa. Through these institutions, today we can boast about how good we have become as commercial farmers in South Africa. But it is through that development agenda that the government of the time initiated it, because they realised the need for building a rural economy. Unfortunately, it was segregated racially.
The Strauss commission also argued for the expansion of the services of the bank to all rural areas of this country using its network, building new services there they do not exist and also working in partnership with others. The commission acknowledged that someone had to take responsibility for agriculture and rural development financing in order to create a better livelihood with some economic activity in the rural areas of our society. This Government - our Government - understood that it had to meet these objectives and therefore decided that the Land Bank should play this role. These obligations therefore necessitated changes in our legal framework in order to satisfy the new mandate.
During the same period, however, after the promulgation of the Constitution in 1996, private financial institutions organised under Cosa initiated a legal challenge on sections 34 and 55 of the Land Bank Act. They argued that it was unconstitutional and that it gave an advantage to the Land Bank that it did not give to other financial institutions.
We must say that while we understood the argument, we were still concerned that such arguments did not take into consideration the risks that the bank was exposed to more than the private financial institutions. However, as a Government that respects the rule of law and has a responsibility to ensure that our justice system operates, we accepted the ruling of the court. The court ruled that certain clauses of sections of 34 and 55 of the Land Bank Act should be removed.
However, in its judgment, the court understood that it needed to give us a grace period of two years so that this legislation could amend those relevant sections. It also understood, however, that the special role that the Land Bank was playing in the rural market in particular was an important one. Therefore I think it is important for hon members to know that even if we lost the case, no obligation was imposed on us by the court to pay the costs. It was because they understood the role that this institution had to play.
The Bill before us seeks to ensure that we amend the relevant sections that were declared unconstitutional while at the same time we advance our own transformational goals as defined in the RDP and further elaborated by the Strauss commission in its recommendations to Cabinet in 1996.
This Bill creates a framework for the bank to do business in line with its mandate. It also assists the institutions to respond to new policy changes that may be envisaged within the sector. An example of this is the Agricultural Sector Strategy adopted in November and presented by Government and business to the President. Because we understand that policy is dynamic and changes time and again, we have structured this Bill in a way that will ensure that we do not have to come back here time and again. We have created a broad framework that will allow the bank to do its business in line with the mandate of this Government.
It amends certain sections of the legislation that impose particular constraints on the institution because of the detailed nature in which it was put into legislation, which did not allow the bank to act responsively and quickly on the needs of its clients. It also defines the powers of the Minister and those of the board of directors in line with our corporate governance principles as accepted by Cabinet.
It allows the Minister to give broad policy guidelines, and the board should ensure that these are taken into consideration in the preparation of the business plan and operation by the Land Bank as an institution. It also streamlines certain processes such as the design and the drafting of contracts in such a way that it allows the bank to structure contracts based on the needs and circumstance of its clients rather than what used to be a ``one size fits all’’ model.
It also creates an opportunity where the bank can fund joint ventures and can also create subsidiaries or established agencies as an injunction from the Strauss commission in order to spread its services to all parts of our country. The current Bill also provides for special provisions which seek to protect this institution. This has been done having taken into consideration the Constitutional Court judgment.
We are aware - the Ministry, the Land Bank as an institution and the department - that there are certain financial institutions which have expressed disappointment in this regard. But we argue that this institution, as I said earlier, is exposed to many risks to which many financial institutions are not exposed.
The developmental role poses many challenges which are time-consuming, requiring a different approach as well as after-care that many other financial institutions are not willing to provide, and dealing with oMazondi, who are illiterate and far from all the beautiful areas like - if I may mention an area which people from KwaZulu-Natal will know - Kwamamfene in Ngwavuma in KwaZulu-Natal, which take time to reach by car. Not all the nice institutions are willing to go there, but the Land Bank has to go there because it has to respond to the mandate of this Government.
These are some of the challenges that are not the same for all financial institutions. Therefore, in our view, we do need to see the Land Bank as a special institution. But the other reason is that we, as the Land Bank, are there for the richer and the poorer. We cannot walk away. We have to respond to the policies of Government as the shareholder and therefore we cannot cherry-pick.
Hon members know that when one goes to apply for a loan at Absa - I will
use Absa as an example because that is where I bank - they can look at
one’s profile, income and expenditure and say, We really think you can
get this loan amount.'' They can also decide that they cannot fund someone
as a farmer but can fund somebody else who wants to have a mortgage to buy
a house or someone who wants to buy a Jeep Cherokee or some other car. But
the Land Bank is there solely for land and agriculture, and nothing else.
So we cannot cherry-pick. We are here for the long haul. As our slogan
says,We stand by you,’’ meaning that whether there is an El Niño today
or tomorrow, floods or extreme drought, we will not walk away.
Even though, in the products that we offer, which are the loans that we give to farmers, we are sometimes dependent on the climate - which is, in my view, a God-given Nasdaq that is not traded at the stock exchange - we are not going to go away. We will always be there.
It is our view, therefore, that those who are raising concerns and expressing disappointment about these special provisions in the legislation will appreciate that the challenges and obligations we face are different from theirs. Actually, in my view, we would be very happy if they took an even higher share of the risk by extending their existing markets to where we are. We do not mind competition, but I think they must come to where we are.
The success we have achieved thus far indicates to us that, through the amendments that we have made in this legislation, we can do even better. Today we can say with pride that the institution has 70 000 clients from the historically disadvantaged communities, people who were seen as the unbankable poor not so long ago. Of them, 65% are women. What makes us even prouder is that their repayment of the debt is 80% - an encouraging trend indeed. We want to maintain this and do even better. Given the challenges that we face in the transformation of our agricultural sector, the question that other people may ask is: Where does this bank fit in in the broad, overall Government policy? The answer is that the Land Bank is the premier Government development institution that specialises in the provision of rural and agricultural financial services in South Africa. Its mandate is to implement the constitutional and policy imperatives of the Government and to promote, support and facilitate land redistribution, food security and agricultural growth and development. Its focus is on the agricultural sector and all its clients as a whole. It is therefore supposed to render focused financial services to the entire spectrum of farmers and rural entrepreneurs.
This is what defines the bank as different from other financial institutions. Its main focus is on agriculture and land, not anything else. The inherent risk in this sector means that it does not offer that much razzmatazz to other financial institutions, but we will always stand by those we serve. Even for those who are in the sector to some degree, agriculture is not their sole mandate, as I said earlier. They have other portfolios that, depending on what the market looks like, can change in terms of where they rank in their mandates. As for us, we will always be there.
It is for this reason that I commend this Bill for approval by this House. [Applause.]
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates and permanent delegates, MECs, has everyone here been listening? I realise that some members were not listening. They are not aware of how important this piece of legislation is and how people outside, on the peripheries of this country, are waiting for it.
That is why, when the Minister was worried about whether the NCOP would let this piece of legislation go through, my select committee overwhelmingly decided to pass it. Even though they might have felt the necessity for some changes that could have delayed it, because this Bill is long overdue, they overwhelmingly said that it must go through. If ever amendments have to be made, they can be made later, once the Bill is in use.
I am asking whether hon members have listened so as to hear the good news. This is good news, in fact, for our people. Agricultural development plays an important role in the social and economic development of South Africa, where large numbers of people live in rural areas. It is directly linked to increased food production and higher nutritional standards, which are vital for our subcontinent.
Therefore the role of the Land and Agricultural Development Bank cannot be divorced from the broader struggle for economic growth and social development. The bank plays a crucial enabling role in economic growth through the provision of financial services for agriculture and related services, particularly to those who were denied access because of racial discrimination.
Although, in terms of the old Act, the Land Bank provided financial assistance for agriculture, this assistance was specifically aimed at white Afrikaner farmers. since its formation in 1912, the Land Bank has systematically and deliberately ignored black people.
As an institution it basically stood outside the broad social and economic development framework of a postapartheid South Africa. It functioned in isolation from other government programmes aimed at empowering the previously disadvantaged majority. Most importantly, the Land Bank lacked a developmental perspective which could make it a strategic partner in achieving the social and economic objectives of our postapartheid Government.
The rural poor want to increase their income. For this they need credit. However, they seldom have assets to offer as collateral, are often illiterate and live in remote areas far away from the nearest bank branch. If one adds to this the fact that commercial banks are not eager to undertake the risks involved in lending without adequate collateral, it becomes clear that many rural households are denied access to credit.
It is this background against which one must appreciate the important role which the Land Bank performs. Because it plays such an important role it is essential that the bank be underpinned by a solid legal framework which compels it to serve as a provider for those who cannot turn to commercial banks for assistance. Hence this Bill.
The process of transforming the Land Bank already started in 1997, when Cabinet adopted the recommendations of the Strauss commission, which was set up to look at the role of the Land Bank, as the Minister said. One of the most important decisions taken was to extend the role of the Land Bank to enable it to support other Government programmes aimed at land reform, agricultural development and the eradication of inequalities, particularly in our rural areas.
In the first three years after the transformation process started in 1997, the number of black clients of the bank increased to 23% and more than 13 000 loans were advanced to emerging farmers. In the year 2000 alone the monetary value of approved loans was R481 million. This represented an improvement of 106% on the loans made in 1999. This was despite the fact that at the end of 1999 the bank had set itself the target of 40% improvement.
Over and above the more than 13 000 individuals who benefited from the bank’s commercial loans, the bank also made more than 56 000 loans to the value of R61 million to formerly disadvantaged South Africans in terms of its microfinance scheme called Step Up. The Step Up scheme is designed for customers, especially rural women, who require smaller loans without having to put up collateral.
In addition to this success the Land Bank also gave a number of grants to different provinces and communities involved in rural development during the course of last year. My own province, North West, has benefited. An amount of R209 000 that was awarded to the provincial department was used for skills development training to speed up the process of giving previously disadvantaged communities the necessary training, so that they could get into mainstream agriculture.
When we embarked on the transformation process at the Land Bank, many people were sceptical. Many of them believed the Land Bank would fail, because they did not see how to the bank could continue to effectively service commercial agriculture, while at the same time broadening its focus to include historically disadvantaged farmers in the agricultural sector. The figures about development since we embarked on this transformation process have proved the sceptics wrong. We will continue to prove them wrong with this new Bill.
The Bill requires that the board administer the accounts of the bank and enables the bank to form subsidiaries and enter into joint ventures. The Bill prohibits any person from disclosing any information obtained for the purpose of rendering agricultural financial services. Any person who contravenes this provision will be guilty of an offence. An Act of Parliament can only wind up the bank. The draft legislation also sets out general offences, which could be committed by any person involved in corrupt practices.
Let me conclude by saying that this is good news to all South Africans. That is why I checked with the House as to whether they had listened to the Minister. We are proud of the Minister, who has the foresight and the vision at the right time, whom we have to support so that we deliver at the end of the day. The people of South Africa, those who are at the periphery, who are pushed, are waiting eagerly for this good news and the House should be the force to inform them right on the ground. We thank the hon the Minister heartily. Let us join hands and walk tall to deliver to the people of South Africa. [Applause.]
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Voorsitter, mag ek my ook net by die voorsitter van die gekose komitee voeg en sê dat ons ook die Minister steun. Ons is trots op haar en ons dink sy is ‘n baie goeie Minister. [Madam Chairperson, may I also just associate myself with the chairperson of the select committee in that we also support the Minister. We are proud of her and we think she is a very good Minister.]
The Bill before us today is the result of a Constitutional Court case involving the First National Bank against the Land Bank. Sections 34 and 55 of the Land Bank Act were judged unconstitutional and these sections had to be amended or replaced before 9 June 2002 to escape invalidation.
The Strauss commission released its report on 18 September 1996 and Cabinet approved its recommendations on 6 August 1997. It is therefore not clear why this Bill in its original form was only introduced to our committee late in May 2002.
The Land Bank has played a very important role in the development of agriculture in South Africa. It also established an important principle in financing agriculture, where the bank used 80% of the productive value of the farm as collateral and not the market value of the farm as a basis for securing a loan. The function of the Land Bank, according to the new Act, is to finance developing agriculture.
The DP respects and agrees with the concept of the Bill in bringing about equity and levelling the playing fields in regard to the previously disadvantaged rural communities. We would, however, like to raise the following concerns. Although the Minister has addressed them, and I therefore feel much more at ease in my heart, and I would like to mention them.
The first one is how the Land Bank will operate within the framework of the Financial Services Board Act, in the light of its dual role as a profit- orientated financial institution on the one hand, and a development institution on the other. It seems inappropriate to have to pass legislation that could have legal implications and consequences and thereafter require further amending, because the Bill had to be rushed through.
Secondly, the President released a strategic plan for agriculture at the end of 2001. This plan mentioned the need to devise innovative financial instruments to help new and existing farmers manage the effect of high interest rates on cash flow, the importance of financial institutions being globally competitive, the establishment of locally based and microfinancial institutions that include financial service co-ops and village banks and innovative substitutes for collaterals. Yet this Bill ignores all these issues.
Die derde bekommernis is dat geld vir ontwikkelende landbou en kommersiële landbou nie afsonderlik gehanteer word nie. Die sukses van die wet sal bepaal word slegs as die Landbank sterk betrokke is en bly by die finansiering van kommersiële landbou. Die Minister het dit ook inderdaad in haar toespraak bevestig. Ek is baie dankbaar daaroor, veral waar dit die nodige geld sal genereer om ontwikkeling in die landbou te finansier. Die staat sal nie net geld kan beskikbaar stel om rente te subsidieer nie, maar ook vir die slegte skulde wat as gevolg van groot risiko by ontwikkelingslandbou gaan ontstaan. Die Minister het daarna verwys en ons staan op die vooraand van ‘n El Niñosiklus van gure weersomstandighede, en die nodige fasiliteite en ``a code of good practice’’ soos voorgestel deur Agri SA sal ingestel moet word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
The third concern is that money for developing agriculture and commercial agriculture is not handled separately. The success of the law could only be determined if the Land Bank is strongly involved and keeps to the financing of commercial agriculture. The Minister also indeed confirmed this in her speech. I am very thankful for that, especially where it would generate the money necessary to finance development in agriculture. The state would not only be able to make money available to subsidise interest, but also for the bad debts which will develop as a result of the great risk in development agriculture. The Minister referred to it and we are on the eve of an El Niño cycle of bad weather conditions, and the necessary facilities and a code of good practice, as suggested by Agri SA, would have to be established.]
The DP supports this Bill and we support the hon the Minister with the hope and trust that the legislation before us today meets the expectations of all our new farmers-to-be. [Applause.]
Mr R M NYAKANE: Madam Chair, the UDM supports the passage of this Bill, because its intentions will unquestionably be of great assistance to the farmers and the farming community as a whole.
We welcome the provision as set out in clause 33 (4)(d) of this Bill that any person affected by a court order may, through a competent court, set aside such an order. It will give one time and opportunity to mitigate the order in court by addressing the circumstances that led to one’s failure to service a debt. This process will enable the loaner and the defaulter to reach a compromise.
Previously the loaner could arbitrarily, through the services of legal representatives and the sheriff, seize the defaulter’s property and subject it to public auction. This practice was tantamount to a gross violation of human rights, and one’s dignity or integrity. After all, no man should be condemned unheard.
The second matter I wish to emphasise regarding the functions of the board is that of the interest rate of banks which operate along the same lines as commercial banks. I am made to understand that there is a 17% interest rate per annum on the loan made, but I have just heard recently that the Minister has indicated an 8% interest rate. Another concern following this observation is that this rate applies throughout all levels of farming, be it for established commercial farmers or for emerging or historically disadvantaged farmers, as well as the agricultural co-operatives.
Emerging farmers and the historically disadvantaged sector of the population will not be able to cope with or successfully service a debt which grows at the rate of 18% per annum. The board has to look into the matter seriously, given that the Bill targets, among others, those that were previously disadvantaged. They are coming into the mainstream of the agricultural industry. I know of three incidents - and I need not mention the names here - involving people who could not service their debt and whose background was inadequate really to be able to make a living out of the loan, given the interest rate of 18% per annum. They sold their tractors. They sold their homes. They have just relocated to Mkuku.
Lastly, I would like to give my interpretation with regard to clause 8(6)(a). This clause provides that when we speak of a ``broad cross-section of the population of the Republic’’, we also refer to the deployment of the members of the board in terms of geographical distribution. I am afraid, if one goes to Johannesburg, it is a heterogenous society with Shangaan, Zulu, English and Afrikaans people. One could easily be tempted to take people from that area, because they form a broad cross-section of the population. I therefore appeal to the Minister to look into ensuring that some people serving on the board come from the Northern Province, from the Free State, from the Northern Cape or the Eastern Cape. Perhaps one could talk of equity in representation. These are the few observations I wanted to put across to the Minister, and in particular to the representatives of the Land Bank who are here. Our main concern in farming practices is the question of interest rates, for which we feel we need to design a profile that will suit various levels of farming - the woman on the ground and the commercial farmer and those who are emerging. What is happening is that we have a blanket rate of interest for all, and this definitely suffocates those who are still emerging as farmers. [Time expired.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, as a farmer it is good to interact with a forceful and focused Minister such as the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs whom we have here, somebody who makes a commercial farmer like me feel at home and part of the agricultural industry and even wanted and needed. I thank the Minister for that.
Since 1994, my party and I have promoted and supported land reform in South Africa. From the outset we argued and felt very strongly about sustainability in the process. It does not make any agricultural sense just to give people land because they were removed from it because of political considerations during the apartheid era or just because a specific Government project makes it possible for them, as an individual or a group, to get hold of a piece of land. To be on land is really the easy part, but to stay on the land without destroying the land or oneself or one’s family is really the difficult part.
To participate in the agricultural industry and to be a successful commercial farmer needs four very important ingredients. The first one is the will to not only sit on the land - or retire on the land as the Minister said - but to be a successful farmer. The second is to have the appropriate land and third the money to develop a sustainable farming business. Then we need research, training and technical support to continuously empower the new entrants. Maybe this is some of the after-care the Minister spoke about.
This Bill, apart from other goals the Minister spelt out, also seeks the enhancement of productivity, profitability, investment and innovation in the agricultural and rural financial systems. The bank is given a space to broaden its activities in ensuring that agricultural and rural financial services are maintained by providing grant funding, providing crisis relief finance within its field of operation and providing export and import finance within its field of operation and making equity investment.
This Bill and the Land Bank, with all the positive elements mentioned, cannot be seen in isolation, as money and the management of the bank are only one of the four determining factors for success in agriculture. As this money is high-risk money, it must be made accessible to the people who really have the will to succeed in agriculture. Access to agricultural research, training and support must be looked at as a priority to really empower our people in the rural areas.
Commercial banks have bankrupted many good farmers in the past because they know everything about money but nothing about farming. The Land Bank knows about farming. That is the good news the chairperson of the select committee spoke about.
Lightheartedly, people say that anyone who wants to make a small fortune out of agriculture must start with a big one. We cannot allow participants to get money and just use it in agriculture until it is finished and then be in the same or even a worse position they were in before they were granted the opportunity to get involved in agriculture. There are cases in the new South Africa, since 1994, where people were put on land and where they are in worse situations now than they were before. I hope this Bill and the Land Bank will really help in these poverty pockets we have as well and bring redress.
The Bill before the House has the ingredients to assist not only individuals but also South Africa to really reform agriculture into a viable industry for all our people and also to contribute towards the development and reform of agriculture in the rest of Africa. If we succeed, the rest of Africa will follow.
The New NP supports the Bill and we thank the hon the Minister for her emphasis on sustainability and her acknowledgement of the importance of the commercial farmers in South Africa. We also thank the Minister for standing by the farmers of South Africa. [Applause.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, one feels honoured and privileged to participate in the debate on such a progressive and transformative piece of legislation. The Minister has spoken and the chairperson of the select committee has spoken.
An HON MEMBER: And Van Nierkerk has spoken. [Laughter.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: We have all heard, and that includes the hon Mrs Versfeld, although she still wants to hear more. She said, in her words, that some of the other points she had wanted to raise were covered, but I do not know whether she raised them so that she could again gain the wisdom of the hon the Minister. Or is it only because in the DA, or DP nowadays, we understand that they are monitored, and if they speak good of the ruling party people will think they are just about to cross the floor? [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
But all the same, one must say that when assistance was given to the poor whites, most of whom are rich now, such sentiments about bad debts and risks were not raised.
It is now, when we are giving access to the previously disadvantaged people, that we speak of El Niño and other weather phenomena. I will not spoil my speech by concentrating much on what she raised. I will leave it to the hon the Minister who, I am very confident, will deal with that matter if she thinks it is worth her while. [Laughter.]
The Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill repeals the Land Bank Act of 1944, which in certain instances is outdated and also unconstitutional, as has been said. We are looking at this Bill to go a long way in redressing the racially discriminatory practices and laws of the past. The hon the Deputy President, Jacob Zuma, said;
The Government seeks to transform rural areas in South Africa into economically viable, socially stable and harmonious areas. The main targets will particularly be the rural poor, women, youth and the disabled. Rural local economies must grow if they are to be sustainable. Adopting an integrated approach has ensured that all possible areas of development have been explored and that all gains are of a sustainable nature.
The relevance of this Bill is clear from the stated objects of the Land and Agricultural Development Bank, being the promotion, facilitation and support, inter alia, of the increase of ownership of agricultural land by historically disadvantaged persons and also of programmes that contribute to agricultural aspects of rural development and job creation. Furthermore, the bank must promote the enhancement of productivity, profitability, investment and innovation in the agricultural and rural financial systems.
We must say that we are aware of certain harsh voices opposing this Bill. They come with various tunes which unfortunately are not worth recording for public consumption. One argument is that the Land and Agricultural Development bank should be treated equally, just like the other commercial banks. They may look similar, as all of them are called banks, but in essence they are not the same. The Land Bank is state-owned and the others are not, hence their mandates and policies are not of the same nature and thus they have different clientele and outcomes. My understanding is that the Land Bank is not expected to competitively increase its market share to the detriment of the other commercial banks.
As has been said, I will not waste much time on what the critics of this Bill are saying. That has a risk of people remembering bad things rather than the good which the hon the Minister is coming up with.
Our country South Africa is on the right course, led by a visionary leadership. It is in that light that I would like to commend the sterling leadership role our hon Minister Thoko Didiza is playing in this regard. She is living testimony that women can lead, and can lead successfully. [Applause.] The slogan and the motto of the Land Bank say, ``We stand by you.’’
The prevalence of rural poverty provides major challenges for both Government and civil society. It warmed my heart, during the briefing which we had in the committee, when it was put in no uncertain terms that the Land Bank sees itself as part of a collective for rural development and hence part of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy.
The development finance model of the bank ensures a better life for the rural poor by giving them access to finance enabling them to be farmers, which makes dreams come true. I come from Mpumalanga, so the Nkomazi Irrigation Expansion Programme comes immediately to mind, where 241 viable farming opportunities have been created, and where 723 permanent and 190 seasonal jobs have been created thus far. Annual wages for the labour force are estimated at R3,5 million and about R700 000 for the seasonal workers. Of course this becomes a boost for local economic growth.
This is but one of the many occurrences of service delivery within our country. Even a blind person, through hearing the rumblings of the caterpillar tractors as new agricultural fields are opened, can see that we are a nation seriously at work - work to bring about sustainable agricultural development, and work to better the lives of our people. It is only those who are in a political coma who cannot open their eyes and see that delivery by Government is taking place. Through this Bill and the Land Bank, we are pushing the frontiers of poverty back. As the ANC we support the passage of this Bill. [Applause.] INDVUNA YETEKULIMA NETEMHLABA: Sihlalo, ngiyabonga kakhulu kutfola lelitfuba lekutsi ngikwati kuphendvula lamalunga lakhulumile kuleNdlu. Ngitsandza kubonga umnaketfu locedza kukhuluma nyalo, Babe Windvoël. Ngitsite, cha, ngitamjabulisa lo wekunene ngekutsi ngikhulume lulwimi lwangakubo. [Kuhlaba lulwimi.] Mine ngingumtfwanentfombi. Make wami liSwati, babe ngumZulu - bangabi nesikhwele-ke bakaZulu-Natal. [Luhleko.]
Ucinisile impela umnaketfu uma atsi ngisho nalabangaboni, ngalesikhatsi beva tigulumba bayati futsi bayabona kutsi loHulumende lokhona uyasebenta. Futsi-ke … (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Mr Chairperson, it is an honour for me to be afforded this opportunity to reply to those hon members who voiced their ideas in this House. I would like to thank my brother the hon member who has just spoken, the hon Mr Windvoël. I thought that I should please him by speaking a language that is spoken in the area adjacent to his. [Interjections.] I am the daughter of a princess. My mother is a Swati, and my father is a Zulu - those from KwaZulu-Natal should not be jealous. [Laughter.]
What the hon member said is true. As he said, these days even the blind can hear the noise of the tractors, they know and can perceive that the present Government is at work. And, again … [Interjections.]]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Minister, I understand there is no interpreting available. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I am going to summarise what I have just said in English.
Ngitsandza kusho futsi kutsi mhlawumbe nalabekunene labasemakhaya abawafundzi lamaphephandzaba lamanyenti lacamb’ emanga, latjela bantfu tintfo letingekho. Bayeva emsakatweni Ligwalagwala sikhuluma futsi nabo bayatibonela kutsi Hulumende uyasebenta. Ngabo-ke labantfu laba labalwa balwela inkhululeko. Abajahi kutsi tintfo tintjintje. Bayati kutsi kuntjintja kwatsatsa sikhatsi lesingakanani, nekutsi kwakha kutawutsatsa sikhatsi lesingakanani. Ngabo-ke labantfu laba lesikhuluma ngabo lamuhla sitsi lamuhla litfuba selabo. (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)
[I would like to say I hope that the people who live in remote rural areas do not read the many newspapers that feed our people false information. They hear the truth on Radio Ligwalagwala when we speak and they also see for themselves that this Government is working. Those are the very people who fought for our independence. They do not want to rush into change. They know how much time it takes for these changes to be realised, and that building everything up will take a long time. These are the people we are talking about today when we say now is their opportunity.]
Chairperson, hon members, I was thanking the members for participating in the debate, and also affirming what the hon Windvoël said at the end, that indeed even those who are our critics, who may not be able to see, can hear the caterpillars moving; see for themselves that we are a Government and we are a people at work. I also said those rural masses of our country, who may not have access to the various media, particularly the print media, which sometimes do not tell the truth about what is happening, do listen to the radio, but they stay in those communities where we are making changes. They are therefore the witnesses who can testify that things have changed. They are not just sitting and expecting change, they work to make that change possible.
What I am happy about in this debate is that all of us as South Africans, no matter what our political persuasion, appreciate the importance of the agricultural sector in our economy. We also appreciate the need for setting up an enabling environment in which all South Africans can thrive. Clearly we may not see things in the same way because our own experiences and circumstances in some way influence us and our thoughts about how we see things. But, as I said earlier, what is encouraging is that we are coming together, we have consensus that this Bill creates better opportunities for all South Africans. To confirm what Mrs Versfeld said, that she heard my introductory speech. Indeed, this Bill is not about developing farmers; it is about all farmers of South Africa. It is for this reason that Agri SA and Nafu support this Bill.
Maybe it is opportune at this time to thank Monwabisi Fandeso, the MD of the bank, as well as his legal support, Mr Verna, who is with him, and all the staff of the Land Bank in the national office and in the regions. While they understand the imperative of transformation, they have always maintained the balance and given support to our existing commercial farmers. That is why I said earlier that oMaZondi will feel part of this institution just as Meneer Botha will also feel part of this institution.
Maybe what defines this new Government is that even though it understood
that we had to change the legacy of the past, it appreciated what was said
in the Freedom Charter in 1955, that South Africa belonged to all who lived
in it, black and white. It is for this reason that it will continuously
ensure that we work towards building a nonracial South Africa, where
tomorrow we will always first say, I am South African,'' before we say,
I am DP’’ or ``I am ANC.’’ I think this is what we should all strive, for
because this is what will build a better South Africa for our children.
Maybe what is good about South Africans is that we are all willing to share our experiences. I have always told people that when I started as a Deputy Minister, I was given the responsibility of dealing with agricultural finance. Mr Van Niekerk said to me that it was a tradition that all Deputy Ministers were given this responsibility. It is a very hard one indeed because one has to deal with what one could call the fundamentals of development in the agricultural sector, the need for credit. As Mr Van Niekerk said, ``You can have the land, but if you do not have the resources to work with it, it is as good as nothing.’’
When I went through that process, looking at the Agricultural Credit Board, its services and what it was doing, looking at what the Land Bank was doing, but, more than anything, looking at the politics behind the establishment of this institution, I said that South Africa was lucky because we still had an institutional memory. We have people like Koos van Zyl - some members know him - who can tell one what the basis was of coming up with these various amendments because of the experiences that the farmers went through during that period.
I think that sometimes as South Africans we become very negative and are critical, maybe for political point-scoring at some stage. It should be possible for us to look back and ask: What was it that helped us to deal with the poor white problem in this country? What is it that we need to do to deal with the poor black problem today? Those members who have read the Carnegie Foundation’s report of 1933 around the poor white problem will tell the others that the problems that we experience as black people of this country today were experienced by white people in this country then. Issues of alcoholism, issues that are related to poverty and disease were as much problems for white people then as they are for blacks today. But they sat and designed strategy that turned the situation around.
Some members who know the history of the railways in South Africa and the development of towns will know why one had a number of smallholdings around Johannesburg and Pretoria. It was because one needed to bring people from the land and make them blue-collar workers in the cities. In order to attract them one needed to ensure they could still go back and have a little ``kiep-kiep’’ [chicken] there, and a goat and a sheep. I think this is an experience and a history and we must appreciate that. If we use history correctly it can help us to build a prosperous South Africa.
What this Land Bank Bill is doing is to create an enabling environment that will help us to kick-start aboMaZondi and consolidate the abo-van-Niekerk on the other. It is not saying that one is against the other, but it is saying that these are part of our client base, important providers of food and fibre for our society, important players in rural development as well as social stability for our economy. I would therefore suggest to Mrs Versfeld that the issue around the Financial Services Board, if one looks at the bank, its mandate and how it was created, does not necessarily arise, it is actually supervised by the SA Reserve Bank.
As we worked towards this legislation we were in constant consultation with the Reserve Bank and the registrar in particular, but also with the Financial Services Board, to ensure that we take all of them with us in this legislation.
The strategic plan, although one might not see it written in black and white in the Bill, is covered by the products that this bank will provide. The Land Bank has been a central player in the production of that strategic plan. I think it is important for us to remember what the Strauss commission said. The Strauss commission said that the bank will have to extend services where it is possible, but, as much as it is necessary, it must build links and assist the development of village banks and financial institutions.
The Land Bank therefore does not want to proliferate and be a bigger bank or a superbank, but it wants to work in partnership with others. Therefore the way in which the bank is structured through the proposal in this Bill allows for the creation of subsidiaries and for the co-operation in venture capital with some of the financial institutions at local level. So it is taken into consideration.
Issues of risk management have been taken into consideration by the bank.
As I said earlier, in some way this is where the bank takes a different
stance from the other banks. We are not able to cross-subsidise as other
institutions may do from one portfolio to the other. In the way in which we
manage our financial institution we have to ensure that we do what needs to
be done. More importantly, it might be interesting for hon members in this
NCOP to note that the Land Bank’s approach to funding today is not just
about giving people credit and saying: Thank you very much, Mr Zoni,'' or
Thank you very much, Mr Van Niekerk,’’ and then telling them to go away.
It actually makes sure that it assists with relevant training in financial
management so that one is indeed able to pay back that money.
Our interest is not just in giving people loans. Selfishly, perhaps, we want to make sure that we get our money back, but the client also becomes a better financial manager. We go a step further than we did before.
Let me respond to some of the important issues raised by Mr Van Niekerk. The after-care, as the hon member correctly said, does not just deal with this aspect of financial management training, but also makes sure that it brings all the other relevant actors in agriculture into focus. Research and extension marketing are also very important for ensuring sustainable agriculture, so we have taken that into consideration. That is why, in the way in which we now work in Government, we ensure that the family of institutions within the agricultural sector work together in support, not in competition, with the others.
We are doing the same with the provinces to ensure that what we do support the provinces because they are at the coalface where things are happening. To this end, the North West is the first province where we have started a pilot project to see what we can do to deal with the debt question of the black farmers in that province. When it succeeds it will give us a basis on which we can deal with debt in all our provinces.
Let me just respond to Mr Nyakane. I think there was confusion. The issue he was referring to about 80% is really the issue I was raising about how people are paying back the loans they took, not the interest rate. The interest rate remains at the level at which we are. What I was saying was that the poor people to whom we have given money have actually repaid better than any others. That is the 80% repayment rate I was talking about.
However, when we talk about the interest rate - I said this two years ago - it is important that we do not isolate the interest rate as the only indicator that determines success or failure. We need to look at a package of things.
These people I am talking about who were able to pay back had an interest rate that some of us may think is very high, but because they had support measures, they were able to pay back their debt. Sometimes I think it becomes easier to argue for a reduction of the interest rate, but we must be very aware of the impact that an increase or decrease of the interest rate can have right across the economy. When we deal with some of these issues sectorally, while we have an interest in the sector, we also need to take the broad economy into perspective and ask: If we make such changes in agriculture, what is the likely impact on the other sectors of our economy? Will it be better or will it be worse? We must always seek a balance between the two.
I think it is important for me to say to this House that if it were not for the support of the legal team, the management of the bank and the Deputy Minister, who have driven this process, we would not be where we are today. I would therefore like to apologise on behalf of Deputy Minister Du Toit, who could not be with us today because he is in Bali at the preparatory meeting for the World Summit on Sustainable Development. Let me also tell Mrs Versfeld that while I note her concern about the delay in the Bill coming to this House, it was because we wanted to ensure that we had as much consultation as possible with all the relevant stakeholders.
At one stage when we thought we were ready, certain concerns brought by one stakeholder or the other created the delay that we found ourselves in. It was not because we were lazy or sitting on our laurels and doing nothing; it was because we needed to ensure that we took everybody, particularly in this sector, with us in this amendment.
With those few words, I thank you, Chairperson, and the hon members. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 17:56. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 24 MAY 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Ms N N Mapisa-Nqakula has, in terms of section 93(1)(a) of the
Constitution, been appointed as Deputy Minister of Home Affairs by
the President of the Republic with effect from 7 May 2002.
(2) Mr C Nqakula has, in terms of section 91(2) of the Constitution,
been appointed as Minister for Safety and Security by the
President of the Republic with effect from 7 May 2002.
(3) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for the Public
Service and Administration in the National Assembly on 24 May 2002
and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
(i) State Information Technology Agency Amendment Bill [B 24 -
2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [explanatory summary of
Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 23337 of 26 April 2002.]
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public
Service and Administration of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
working days.
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bill passed by National Assembly on 24 May 2002 and transmitted
for concurrence:
(i) Probation Services Amendment Bill [B 18B - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
MONDAY, 27 MAY 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees,
viz:
Economic and Foreign Affairs:
Appointed: Adams, F.
Education and Recreation:
Appointed: Adams, F.
Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and
Disabled Persons:
Appointed: Adams, F; Maloyi, P D N (Alt).
Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women:
Appointed: Adams, F.
Labour and Public Enterprises:
Appointed: Adams, F; Nel, P J C (Alt).
Members' and Provincial Legislative Proposals:
Appointed: Surty, M E.
Social Services:
Appointed: Adams, F.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
-
Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 24 May 2002:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12B
- 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the Media Development and Diversity Agency Bill [B 2B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 24 May 2002:
The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered the subject of the Media Development and Diversity Agency Bill [B 2B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill. TUESDAY, 28 MAY 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bill passed by National Assembly on 28 May 2002 and transmitted
for concurrence:
(i) Private Security Industry Levies Bill [B 11 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 77)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
WEDNESDAY, 29 MAY 2002 ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 22 May 2002 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bills as section 75
Bills:
(i) Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill [B
22 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
(ii)South African Maritime and Aeronautical Search and Rescue Bill
[B 23 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
The following paper has been tabled and is now referred to the relevant
committee as mentioned below:
The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs:
The Strategic Plan for the Department of Defence for 2002-2005 [RP 34-
2002].
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Transport:
The Business Plan of the National Department of Transport for 2002-
2003.
THURSDAY, 30 MAY 2002 ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bill passed by National Assembly on 30 May 2002 and transmitted
for concurrence:
(i) Health Donations Fund Act Repeal Bill [B 20 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Public Works:
Together pushing back the Frontiers of Poverty - Laying Tomorrow's
Development.
- The Minister of Social Development:
(a) The Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in
respect of Inter-Country Adoption, tabled in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.
(c) Optional Protocols to the Convention on the Rights of the Child
on the involvement of children in armed conflict and on the sale
of children, child prostitution and child pornography, tabled in
terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreements.
FRIDAY, 31 MAY 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
following Bills:
(a) Animal Identification Bill [B 49B - 2001] - Act No 6 of
2002 (assented to and signed by President on 29 May
2002);
(b) Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions Amendment Bill
[B 66D - 2001] - Act No 10 of 2002 (assented to and
signed by President on 29 May 2002); and
(c) Immigration Bill [B 79B - 2001] - Act No 13 of 2002
(assented to and signed by President on 30 May 2002).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Safety and Security:
Government Notice No R.334 published in Government Gazette No 23245
dated 22 March 2002, Regulations for the South African Police Service,
made in terms of sections 24 and 48 of the South African Police Service
Act, 1995 (Act No 68 of 1995).
- The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:
Annual Report of the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights for 2001-
2002.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on Budget Vote 31: Trade and Industry, dated 8 May 2002:
The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered
Budget Vote 31, reports as follows:
Introduction
The Committee examined the budget of the Department of Trade and
Industry (Vote 31) for the 2002/3 financial year as well as the forward
estimates for 2003/4 and 2004/5 included in the Estimates of National
Expenditure.
Main features
The main features of the 2002/3 budget are:
* The Department is allocated R2 468,6 million for the financial
year 2002/3, while forward estimates anticipate it receiving
R2 627,0 million and R2 787,5 million in the years 2003/4 and
2004/5 respectively. This compares to the R2 214,6 million
voted in last year's budget which rose to R2 280,1 million in
the Adjusted Appropriation for 2000/1. The Department's budget
for 2001/2 is broadly in line with last year's forward
estimate for 2001/2 (which was R2 465,1 million), as is the
amount anticipated for 2003/4. The Department's budget can
thus be described as a constant budget with minor
fluctuations.
* The 2002/3 budget is divided into six programmes, compared to
the previous five. These are: Programme 1, Administration,
(6,9 % of the total), Programme 2, International Trade
Development, (2,7%), Programme 3, Enterprise and Industry
Development, (33%), Programme 4, Consumer and Corporate
Regulation (5,4%), Programme 5, The Enterprise Organization
(34%) and Programme 6, Trade and Investment South Africa
(18%). The programmes broadly correspond to the Department's
operational divisions.
* After growing for several years, the budget for Programme 1
stabilizes and in fact decreases slightly from R179,5 million
in the adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 to R169,6 million in
2002/3
* The budget for activities falling under Programme 2 is stable
with R65, 9 million budgeted for 2002/3 compared to the R65, 5
in the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2. The main activities
budgeted for under Programme 2 are multi-lateral and bilateral
trade negotiations, the promotion of African economic
integration and the activities of the Commission for
International Trade Administration (previously known as the
Board of Tariffs and Trade)
* The budget for Programme 3 is reduced slightly from R854, 3
million in the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 to R815, 1
million in 2002/3. Programme 3 is the Department's largest
programme and includes mostly transfer payments to associated
Council of Trade & Industry (COTII) institutions. The decrease
in expenditure in the present and previous budget year
reflects the normalization of expenditure following
significant one off transfer payments to re-capitalize Khula,
initial start up contributions to the National Empowerment
Fund and increased contributions to Namac, Proudly South
Africa and THRIP.
* Programme 4's budget is increased from R96, 8 million to R134,
1 million. Some of the increase is accounted for by transfers
to the Companies and Intellectual Property Office (CIPRO).
* Programme 5's budget increases from R628, 1 million to R840, 2
million. 97% of the expenditure under this programme consists
of transfers under various business support programmes. The
increase is largely accounted for by anticipated better take
up of improved support programmes, and expenditure is expected
to rise further to R963, 8 and R1 021 million in 2003/4 and
2004/5.
* The budget for programme 6 is stable being R455, 8 million in
the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 and R443, 6 million in
2002/3.
* Transfer payments account for approximately 82% of the total
budget. A significant part of these transfer payments are made
to associated DTI "family institutions". There are 17 public
entities and 3 other bodies that report to the Minister of
Trade and Industry. These now participate in regular meetings
of the Council of Trade and Industry Institutions.
* The budget for 2002/3 can also be divided into the following
functional categories:
@ Transfer to associated COTII R690mn 28% Institutions
@ Incentives and Offerings to Business R1 320mn 53%
@ Human Resources R290mn 12%
@ Operations R170mn 7%
The amount for incentives and offerings to firms is up from the
approximately R1 billion in 2001/2.
* The Director General indicated that new systems were being put
in place to promote greater efficiency in the use of
resources. Although these appeared to focus on minor "house
keeping" matters, they were part of a process of getting the
Department to operate faster, smarter and quicker in
delivering services. For example, an investigation by the
Department found that in the recent past 48% of incoming
telephone calls were dropped. This has now been reduced to 29%
* The Department also reported further significant improvements
in organizational efficiency during 2001/2. For example, the
average time to register companies or close corporations at
the Companies and Intellectual Property Office (CIPRO) has
been reduced from 21 to 3 days.
* Once again, this year's budget includes in the Estimates of
National Expenditure a table of "output indicators" and
"targets" for Programmes 2-6. A feature of the Committee's
interaction with the Department this year was that we were
provided at our request, with a detailed Report on the extent
to which output and service delivery targets identified in the
2001/2 budget were delivered upon.
* The latter report, which the Committee regards as a major step
forward in its budgetary oversight, indicates that by and
large the Department attained most of the output targets
identified in 2001/2. The report also indicates that there
were improvements in organizational efficiency, corporate
governance and work environment.
* In terms of employment equity, the Department reported that it
had enhanced the Public Service Commission's targets of
achieving 50% equity by race and 30% by gender and set itself
a target of 80% equity by race and 50% by gender. We were told
that it had surpassed the latter targets, although there is
still a need to address the issue of gender equity in the more
senior grades.
* The improvement in the Department's record on spending observed
in 2000/1 was continued in 2001/2. There is now a reasonable
alignment of budgeted and actual expenditure with
underspending anticipated to be a little over 10% in 2001/2
(excluding some reductions and anticipated commitments to be
rolled over) compared to the more than 30% recorded before
1999.
* The Estimates of National Expenditure 2002 do not sufficiently
address the financial and resource transfers to provinces,
neither do they adequately reflect the impact of the
Department's spending in the various provinces. The Department
through a range of economic development agencies currently
funds and coordinates various economic programmes in the
provinces and local municipalities.
The Committee also had an opportunity, as in previous years, to engage
on budgetary issues with four of the DTI's associated institutions- the
Industrial Development Corporation, the Council for Scientific and
Industrial Research, Ntsika and Khula. Highlights of these discussions
included:
The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC)
* The IDC made 515 investment approvals worth R9, 3 billion
during 2001, more than double the amount in the previous year.
These assisted in the creation or sustaining of 20 000 job
opportunities and generated R10, 5 billion in additional
export earnings.
* The IDC is also extensively involved in projects elsewhere in
Africa. Over the past year it increased its African portfolio
from 30 projects in 9 countries to 47 projects in 16
countries. Approvals in other African countries total almost
R7, 6 billion since 1998.
* The Corporation reported further progress in its efforts to
promote Small and Medium Enterprise development as well as
Black Economic Empowerment. The proportion of approvals going
to empowerment companies was 33 % in 2001 compared to 27% the
previous year. By value, this represents around 16% of total
approvals. Although the Corporation does not directly service
the micro or very small business sector, it has taken some
steps to make its facilities available to smaller enterprises.
68% by value of its portfolio is with clients with an asset
base below R120 million.
* The IDC remains financially strong with capital and reserves of
R24, 4 billion (larger than any bank in the country). Its
involvement in two poorly performing steel projects-Columbus
and Saldanha- did, however, involve it in a capital loss. R5,
5 billion was injected into the restructuring of Saldanha and
its incorporation into Iscor. This restructuring is now
complete and Saldanha is now debt free, selling its products
on the domestic as well as export markets.
The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research
* The CSIR's annual turnover is R810 million, of which 60%
emanates from clients and contracts. The Council will receive
just over R300 million from government this year,
approximately the same as in the previous budget year.
* The CSIR participates in the COTII. The Council indicated that
together with the DTI a number of medium term objectives had
been agreed, including enhancing science and technology
contributions to industrial technology policy development,
raising awareness in industry of technological development,
contributing to development of SMMEs, BEE and access by women
to technology through its Technology for Women in Business
project. It also has 60 rural development projects, many in
poverty nodes identified by government.
* The CSIR is also involved in initiatives, projects and
contracts in 17 other African countries and is contributing
both to NEPAD and preparations for the World Summit on
Sustainable Development. It has also been awarded contracts by
major International Firms including Rolls Royce, Boeing,
Daimler Chrysler and the European Commission for two food
related projects.
* The CSIR confirmed that the trend identified last year of
declining private sector involvement in Research and
Development (R & D) continues to be a cause for concern. We
were told that South Africa spends around 0,7% of its GDP on R
& D, much less than successful industrializing countries. Less
than half this comes from the private sector: Reasons which
the Council said were cited for this included:
1. Less attractive tax incentives for R & D in South Africa
than other jurisdictions.
2. The fact that incentive schemes such as SPII were based on
the matching grant principle meant that there was no real
incentive to begin completely new projects.
3. An environment that did not sufficiently encourage
university-based researchers to develop commercial
applications of their research.
Ntsika Enterprise Promotion Agency
* Ntsika is continuing to re-focus its activities away from its
previous main activity of accrediting service providers to a
demand driven provision of particular services to small
business. Its focuses will be on information provision,
training and advisory services.
* Ntsika is also carrying out a review of service provider
intermediaries it has worked with, and will be dis-accrediting
those that have not met defined performance criteria.
* Ntsika reported that from the time of its inception in 1996
until the end of 2001, it had supported 349 service providers,
trained 2 435 employees of service providers and developed 2
310 business links. Service providers trained or assisted over
100 000 entrepreneurs in over 79 000 enterprises. Jobs created
or sustained over this period are estimated at over 98 000.
* In 2002/3 Ntsika plans to support 280 service providers, train
1 050 staff of service providers and develop 1 120 business
links. It expects service providers to train or assist 60 900
entrepreneurs in 81 500 SMMEs, thereby assisting in creating
or sustaining 40 000 jobs.
* Ntsika is allocated R40 million in the current budget, an
increase from the R35 million it received in 2001/2. It is
anticipated that it will receive R50 million in the 2003/4 and
R60 million in the 2004/5 budgets. The agency expects,
however, to receive a substantial increase of donor funding -
rising to R35,1 million in 2002/3 compared to R12 million in
2001/2. We were told that this money was confirmed. Including
other smaller allocations, Ntsika would spend R85, 1 million
in 2002/3 compared to R64, 4 million in 2001/2.
Khula Enterprise Finance
* An impact assessment study on Khula's products between 1996 and
March 2001 carried out by UNISA's Market Research Bereau found
that these had contributed to the creation and sustaining of
788 650 jobs over this period. 70% of these were in
survivalist enterprises, with a high attrition rate.
* Khula plans to approve loans of R106 million and guarantees of
R406 million during the current financial year, leading to the
creation or sustaining of 124 498 jobs. It aims to ensure that
administrative expenses do not exceed 8% of the value of its
activities and that a return is secured on its capital not
less than the rate of inflation.
* Khula welcomed the fact that DTI plans to hive off funding of
survivalist enterprises to a new fund, saying this will help
Khula to refocus its activities.
* Recapitalisation remains an issue for Khula, and we were told
that Khula will not be able to achive its targets unless
further capital is obtained. We were told that of the R200
million requested from DTI two years ago, Khula received R81
million in 2000/1 and R30 million in 2001/2. Of the funding
requested within the framework of its current five-year
projection, we were told that Khula had received R70 million
from the DTI and that the re-valuation of some properties in
its portfolio would add a further R120 million. No further
commitments have been made by the DTI.
Comments
The committee is pleased to report continued progress in the
management, presentation, and reporting on the DTI's budget. In our
last year' s report, we noted that programmes were more closely aligned
to the major activities of the Department, that there was more
effective financial reporting that better control systems were in place
and that the trend evident in previous years of significant
understanding was being corrected. All these achievements have been
carried over into this year's budget. In addition, we now have the
Department reporting to the Committee on the extent to which it has
delivered on output targets.
In our view the latter represents an important step forward for our
Committee in terms of its monitoring and oversight of the Department's
work, as well as an important step towards effective outcomes based
budgeting. The next challenges to take this process further are, in our
view:
* To find a mechanism to present and discuss with the Committee
proposed output targets ahead of their presentation in
documents tabled at the time of the budget speech.
* To develop a coherent and convincing methodology to indicate
the extent to which the output targets have impacted on the
identified outcome targets viz "to lead and facilitate access
to sustainable economic activity and empowerment for all South
Africans through higher level of investment and increased
access to international markets for South African products,
and to create a fair, competitive and efficient market place
for domestic and foreign enterprises as well for consumers".
We were told that during the course of this year, the
Department hoped to put in place reporting systems that would
at least enable it to identify more clearly what proportion of
its total funding was being deployed to support SMMEs.
As indicated above, the Committee found that in general there was
improved delivery in 2001/2 on the output targets identified. A few
matters of concern were, however, identified by the committee. These
included
* Whether sufficient resources are being allocated to support our
team involved in the WTO negotiations. This is not a simple
matter. The cost of maintaining one person in Geneva is equal
to employing 6 persons at director level, and the Department
has already deployed the previous Deputy Director General of
International Trade to head the team in Geneva, while
establishing a dedicated team led by the former Minister-
Counselor in Geneva in Pretoria. The Committee is nevertheless
of the view that the WTO negotiations are of critical
importance and pose many challenges. We look forward to
engaging further with the Department on how these efforts can
be re-enforced in, including ways in which Parliament and our
Committee can assist in this regard.
* The time it is taking for the National Empowerment Fund to
become operative. After many years, the NEF has at last
received some funding from the Department and IDC to cover
operational expenses and to launch its venture capital fund,
but the NEF Corporation's substantial capitalization has yet
to take place. The Committee urges the Department to ensure
that this takes place expeditiously, and indicates that it
will be seeking progress reports from relevant departments in
the near future.
* It is our earnest hope that the recently established
Cooperatives division will be in the near future in
consultation with stakeholders; devise an effective support
programme for cooperatives.
The Provinces and Local Authorities
* The Department will be requested to comment on the issue of
provincial transfers indicated above, including possibly
extrapolating some figures in respect of individual provinces
by the time the Budget Vote debate takes place in the NCOP.
With the objective of strengthening the relationships between
the various economic development role players, nationally,
provincially and locally, we would also be interested in
receiving reports quantitatively measuring the employment,
investment and economic empowerment impact, as well as
indicating successes and challenges in the various provinces
and municipalities. We are aware that some of this information
can only be supplied by MECs with regard to funds generated
from provincial revenue. In this respect, we call on the
Minister to request these inputs from MECs via the Min-MEC
process. MECs could also be instrumental in generating an
economic status report from local authorities in their
respective provinces. It is envisaged that the NCOP debate
will provide a useful forum for MECs to deliver initial
reports this year, and more comprehensive reports in coming
years within the MTEF framework.
MONDAY, 3 JUNE 2002
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
(a) The Convention for the Protection, Management and Development of
Marine and Coastal Environment of the East African Region and
Related Protocols (Nairobi Convention), tabled in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention.
(c) The Convention for Co-operation in the Protection and
Development of the Marine and Coastal Environment of the West and
Central African Region and Related Protocols (Abidjan Convention),
tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention.
- The Minister of Labour:
Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Unemployment Insurance
Fund for 2000, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for the year ended 31 December 2000 [RP 207-2001].
TUESDAY, 4 JUNE 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 4 June 2002: To
be submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12B - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
- The Chairperson:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Public Services:
(a) The Business Plan of the National Department of Transport
for 2002-2003.
(b) Together pushing back the Frontiers of Poverty - Laying
Tomorrow's Development.
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Social Services, the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs and the Joint Monitoring Committee on the
Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and
Disabled Persons for consideration and report. The committees must
confer, the Select Committee on Social Services to report:
(a) The Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation
in respect of Inter-Country Adoption, tabled in terms of
section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.
(c) Optional Protocols to the Convention on the Rights of the
Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict and on
the sale of children, child prostitution and child
pornography, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreements.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:
- The Minister of Labour:
(a) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation
Commissioner for 1999-2000 [RP 208-2001].
(b) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the National Skills
Fund for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.