WEDNESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

STATEMENT ON MEDIUM-TERM BUDGET POLICY STATEMENT AND INTRODUCTION OF
                   ADJUSTMENTS APPROPRIATION BILL

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, Mr President, Deputy President, colleagues and honourable Members, South Africa is a great place to be in. [Applause.] A few weeks ago, Tom Ainsley, the CEO of Elliot International, one of the larger removal companies in the country, was speaking on a business radio show. In discussing his company’s financial results, he commented that in the 1980s, the number of people that his company moved out of South Africa exceeded the number of people moving in by about ten times. For the past two years however, the number of people leaving the country has roughly equalled the number of people being brought into the country. In September this year, for the first time since his tenure began in 1979, the number of people being brought into the country exceeded the number of people leaving. Skilled South Africans are coming back; skilled professionals are choosing to move here.

While this may be anecdotal, it signals a realisation by people of good judgement that this country is a great place to be in. A realisation that if you take a serious look around, you soon recognise that you’d rather be here than anywhere else.

Madam Speaker, it is this confidence that we are here to speak about today. We are here to talk about the way in which we have weathered the storm of global uncertainty, the way in which we are standing tall and about why this country is a great place to be in. But more importantly, our confidence is driven by our ability to give meaning to our vision of a better life for all South Africans, especially the poor. We are progressively realising the social and economic rights of our people, we are building the foundations for stronger growth and employment creation, we have a policy framework in place to bridge the divide between the first and the second economies that is still such a pervasive feature of our society, as President Mbeki reminded us yesterday.

Under the leadership of the Policy Co-ordination and Advisory Service in the Presidency, the impact and effectiveness of our policies and programmes since 1994 have come under considered scrutiny. The findings of this review are set out in a publication titled Towards a Ten Year Review - a careful and frank assessment which I would like to commend to this House as compulsory reading, not just for the insights it contains, which are many, but also because it provides an intelligent and balanced point of departure for the next phase in our transformation journey.

In framing this year’s Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, we have drawn strongly on this work and the challenges it presents for the years ahead. We have also had the benefit of the results of the 2001 census, published by Statistics South Africa earlier this year. The census and various publications of Statistics SA are the sharp-edged tools of our policy analysis. They show where we have made progress - bringing electricity and water to townships and rural communities, improving access to schools and clinics, improving growth and investment in our economy. They also outline the magnitude of the challenges before us - creating enough jobs for those who seek work, addressing the remaining backlogs in water, electricity and sanitation infrastructure and improving the quality and relevance of further education and training programmes.In keeping with the spirit of the Growth and Development Summit Agreement this year, these challenges call for partnerships between government, business and civil society.

The financial services charter signed last month takes several steps forward in this transformation agenda. It sets targets for several empowerment challenges: transforming management, in addition to ownership, corporate social investment alongside financing empowerment transactions, access to financial services and small business development. The charter sees the delivery of services to the `unbanked’ as both a social objective and an opportunity for business growth.

When we tabled the Budget in this house earlier this year, we were optimistic that the global economy would recover. This has not materialised. While growth in the US shows signs of recovery, most developed countries are still in difficulty. GDP growth in Europe, our major trading partner, this year is forecast at just one half of a percentage point. Against this background, our economy has displayed a remarkable degree of resilience.

Yes, it is true that our economy has grown more slowly than we initially anticipated. The global slowdown in 2001 and 2002, coupled with the dampening effect of the strong rand on our foreign trade performance, have held back faster growth. At the time of the Budget we anticipated growth of 3,3% this year. The revised estimate is growth of 2,2% in 2003, rising to 3,3% next year and 4% by 2006. However, the domestic demand in our economy is growing strongly due to lower interest rates, expansionary fiscal policy and the relative stability of the currency. Investment spending is at its highest level in almost a decade. A sustained higher rate of economic growth is clearly a central requirement if we are to achieve our objectives of employment creation, poverty reduction and broadening participation in economic opportunities. This means we need to boost investment in our people, our physical infrastructure and industrial capacity.

The MTBPS outlines our strategy for reinforcing investment and broadening participation in the South African economy. Building on the agreements reached between government, business, labour and community constituencies at the Growth and Development Summit in June this year, we have a shared vision for improving the performance of our economy. Key initiatives include: Enhancing public infrastructure capacity, including critical transport and communication linkages; an expanded public works programme, extending job creation initiatives across a broad developmental front; improving the regulatory environment and resolving obstacles that stand in the way of the expansion of small businesses; expanding education and training and accelerating enrolment in learnerships to underpin long-term job creation; deepening social security programmes to provide income support to the most vulnerable; a broad-based black economic empowerment strategy; and strengthening sectoral partnerships and local development initiatives.

This development agenda rests on the foundations of the macroeconomic consolidation we have achieved - a moderate budget deficit, a healthy balance of payments and lower inflation. Members will recall that we were obliged to correct an error in the consumer price indices earlier this year. Partly as a result of this correction, but also because the underlying rate of inflation has decreased steadily, we now expect CPIX inflation to average 6,9% in 2003, compared with the February budget estimate of 7,7%.

Following an increase in CPIX inflation to 11,3% in October 2002 after the steep depreciation of the rand in the second half of 2001, year-on-year inflation fell to 5,4% in September this year. This brings inflation well within the target range of 3 to 6%, and we expect it to stay in this range over the three years ahead. The moderation in inflation over the past year has enabled the Reserve Bank to lower interest rates by five percentage points since June, bringing welcome relief to households and creating a decidedly more favourable environment for business investment.

The prime-lending rate is at its lowest level in seventeen years. There are also benefits to the fiscus, as Government is currently able to borrow at lower interest rates than we have seen since June 1974. Our thanks and congratulations are due to Governor Mboweni and his team at the Reserve Bank - may they continue their good work. [Applause.] I am pleased to report that we have agreed on a number of amendments to the inflation- targeting framework within which the Reserve Bank conducts its monetary policy responsibilities. Rather than expressing the target as an annual average for each calendar year, the 3 to 6% range will now be a continuous target within which the Bank will seek to maintain the monthly rate of CPIX inflation, as measured on a year-on-year basis. This range will remain in place for 2006 and future years, until a revised target is set. The procedures for dealing with unanticipated shocks to the inflation trend have also been refined. These adjustments bring greater clarity and practicality to the inflation-targeting framework.

Lower inflation, lower interest rates and a relatively stable currency have contributed to a marked improvement in business confidence in the second half of this year: Fiscal policy and tax considerations; the proposed framework for the 2004 Budget again gives priority to reinforcing growth, creating a conducive environment for job creation while deepening social security spending and infrastructure investment targeted to address poverty and vulnerability.

We have revised down our revenue estimate for this year by R5 billion. This is partly because the economy is growing more slowly than anticipated, and also because corporate profits have fallen in the wake of the economic slowdown and the appreciation of the rand. For the years ahead, a stable tax-GDP ratio of just under 25% of GDP is projected for the national budget.

Taking into account the revised financing requirement, lower interest rates and lower rand costs of servicing foreign debt, total debt service costs of R47,2 billion in 2003-04 are anticipated, which is R3,8 billion less than the original budget estimate. This brings debt service costs down to 3,9% of GDP from 4,2% last year, again releasing resources for allocation to productive expenditure. For the MTEF period ahead, debt service costs are expected to decline further to 3,7% of GDP in 2006-07.

Debt costs together with the revised estimate of R284,3 billion in noninterest expenditure this year bring total expenditure on the main budget to R331,5 billion. The budget deficit will be R31,6 billion, which is 2,6% of projected GDP, compared with a main budget estimate of 2,4%. The MTBPS proposes a framework that allows for real growth in noninterest spending of 5,7% next year and an average of 4,4% over the next three years, after over 10% real growth this year - a strong fiscal stimulus in response to the current slowdown in economic activity, made possible by the healthy state of the public finances after several years of consolidation.

The main budget deficit will rise to 3,2% of GDP next year and then decline to a projected 2,8% by 2006-07. However, the consolidated national deficit, which takes into account projected surpluses on the social security funds, is expected to remain below 3% of GDP over the MTEF period. After providing for extraordinary payments and receipts and the financing requirements of provinces, municipalities, other government bodies and public corporations, the aggregate public sector borrowing requirement is expected to be 3,5% of GDP next year.

This is a growth-oriented fiscal framework that affirms Government’s commitment to long-term sustainability - reflected in the continued declining cost of servicing debt as a share of GDP. It is a framework that provides for strong growth in infrastructure investment by national and provincial government, while also accommodating the increasing capital requirements in the years ahead of the major parastatals, including Eskom, Transnet and its subsidiaries and our larger water utilities.

Major tax reforms of recent years - the introduction of a capital gains tax, adoption of a residence-based income tax system and other base- broadening measures - have put tax policy on a sound footing and allow for a period of consolidation in the years ahead. Certainty in both the tax policy framework and its administration creates an environment conducive to growth and investment.

Nonetheless there are refinements to the tax structure in progress, or under consideration. These include: Reform of the taxation of retirement savings; introduction of accelerated depreciation allowances for designated urban development zones; tax relief to support business investment, research and development and business start-up expenses; tax relief on dividends from foreign investments; rationalisation of the principles governing VAT on government grants to public entities and subsidies to businesses; a levy on plastic bags, in recognition of environmental considerations; and development of a royalty regime for mineral and petroleum products.

In several of these areas, legislation is already before Parliament - in others, such as the proposed royalty regime, comment from interested parties is under review and revised proposals will be tabled during the course of next year. The deadline for the foreign exchange amnesty announced in February this year is now extended to 29 February 2004. I am also advised by Commissioner Gordhan that the Revenue Service is working tirelessly in its efforts to meet revenue targets this year, despite the downward revision in projections. Active measures are focused on areas where non-compliance remains high or fresh evidence of abuse has emerged.

We have been gratified to see the public response this year to SARS’s return filing campaign, which included widespread advertising, help kiosks in shopping and community centres and extended office hours. On the deadline date of 11 July, 410 752 returns were submitted - hugely exceeding expectations. Additional staff is being appointed to deal with the processing of returns. Other initiatives that have proved successful include the launch a year ago of SARS Service Monitoring Office, which has dealt with about 5 000 incidents in its first year of operation, and the introduction this year of an alternative dispute resolution option, which will shortly also be adapted for the customs and excise environment.

With regard to the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework and division of revenue, I turn now to the proposed Medium Term Expenditure Framework for the next three years.

The budget framework provides for an additional R37 billion to be allocated to national votes, provinces and local government transfers over the next three years. Drawing on the findings of the Ten Year Review and the 2003 Growth and Development Summit Agreement, spending plans for the next three years will include an Expanded Public Works Programme to contribute to job creation, reinforcement of infrastructure investment and maintenance, provision for higher education transformation and skills development, and further investment in municipal infrastructure and services. These policies were reaffirmed through the GDS process in which Government, business, labour and community representatives committed to work together to foster people-centred development.

Significantly, employment creation and skills development emerged as the focus of social partners and is indeed at the centre of Government’s development strategy for the next decade. As outlined by His Excellency, President Mbeki, in the NCOP yesterday, the Expanded Public Works Programme will be central to meeting this goal and is one of the key agreements arising from the Growth and Development Summit. A growing proportion of current infrastructure allocations will be directed towards labour based construction methods, resulting in more jobs for low-skilled individuals and valuable training to serve them in future years.

Infrastructure grants to provinces and municipalities rise by R3,2 billion over baseline and will be the main source of funding for this programme with technical support from a dedicated unit in the national Department of Public Works.

The proposed division of revenue sees a gradual shift of resources in favour of provinces and municipalities. The majority of social services are, in fact, delivered by provinces where health, education and welfare spending are prioritised. Programmes in this sector embody Government’s core commitment to human capital and social development. This forms the bedrock of our strategy to reduce poverty and support vulnerable groups, including the aged, children and the disabled. That is why social development budgets will continue to grow strongly to meet our constitutional commitments of providing for the needs of these groups, amongst others.

Notably, phasing in the extension of the child support grant to children up to the age of 14 accounts for continued rapid growth in social security expenditure. Including sharp increases in the numbers of recipients of disability grants over the past year, we are now paying monthly grants to over seven million people - up from under 3 million six years ago. Starting from about 2% of GDP, the social security system now takes up 4% of GDP. A recent research project focused on the child support grant has again confirmed that our social grants programmes are well targeted, contribute on a large scale to reducing income poverty, and that the new grant is making significant progress in meeting the needs of vulnerable children.

Local government receives the biggest percentage increase in the proposed framework due to its vital role in delivering basic services to poor communities. Government is committed to investing in low-income neighbourhoods and under-served communities, in part through the free basic services programme which provides a minimum package of municipal services including electricity, water, refuse removal and sanitation. This is a big challenge for municipalities and will remain a priority for the medium term. As part of the process to create sustainable neighbourhoods, local government is stepping up infrastructure delivery through a consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Grant. Through this new mechanism, Government will target the removal of backlogs in water, sanitation and electricity, thus promoting the social and economic rights of citizens over time.

There are several other priorities in the social services. The years ahead will also see about R3 billion spent on the transformation and recapitalisation of higher education institutions, and rapid growth in the number of workers and learners benefiting from skills programmes overseen by sector education and training authorities (Setas).

Education continues to dominate social services. Funding of learner support materials and other supplies for schools will be strengthened and the primary school nutrition programme will shift from health to education departments. These targeted interventions seek to improve the quality of learning for students, particularly those in poor areas. Over time, the substantial and growing investments in school education together with ongoing reforms in higher education will create a deeper pool of skills to support economic growth. It is notable that the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) is producing solid financial results while continuing to increase the number of awards to academically deserving and financially needy students.

The budget framework makes provision for the roll out of treatment programmes in response to HIV and AIDS. Earmarked allocations on the national Health vote will go up to R1,1 billion next year, rising to R2 billion by 2006-07. Total expenditure in response to HIV and AIDS, including amounts directly spent by provincial health departments, will exceed R3 billion next year, R4 billion in 2005-06 and R4,8 billion in 2006-

1. As the costs of drugs come down and our capacity improves, the ability to treat an even larger group of people becomes possible.

Spending on justice, crime prevention and security services will expand moderately over the years ahead, with additional resources earmarked for establishing Child Justice Centres, modernisation of court management and information systems and further expansion of the Police Service. We have consistently made allocations to this sector in order to stabilise and reduce the incidence of crime. We believe that progress is being made in the fight against crime, though much more can be done, and will be done, through increased resources, better management, and better systems to allow the departments in this sector to work more closely and more efficiently. Children bear an inordinate burden of crime and violence in our country. Ultimately, reducing levels of crime improves the quality of life for all South Africans and benefits the most vulnerable.

Priorities in the economic services include further investment in water services and sanitation, provision for infrastructure associated with industrial development zones and enhanced spending on land restitution and land reform. Strong support continues for investment in housing and basic water, sanitation, electrification, transport and communication services.

The budget framework includes amounts of R1 billion in 2004-05, R2 billion in 2005-06 and R3 billion in 2006-07 set aside to support the broad-based black economic empowerment strategy. South Africa’s diplomatic services and peacekeeping operations, in support of NEPAD objectives, regional development and international co-operation will be enhanced. Provision is made for forthcoming elections, and allocations to support improved services of the Department of Home Affairs are proposed.

The 2003 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement proposes, in sum, progressive strengthening of public expenditure across a broad set of policy priorities, and framed within a consistent and growth-oriented fiscal policy framework and a stable overall tax burden. The fastest growing category of spending at present is our portfolio of social grants programmes, and in particular, income support for children under the age of

1. This is as it should be - for our children are our future, and while we have such inequality, and such a gap between employment opportunities and the number of work seekers, as we have, we must give priority to this basic contribution to household food security and mitigating income vulnerability. But over the longer term, over the decade ahead, we must also be mindful of the great responsibility we have to invest in building productive capacity, developing a learning society and creating work opportunities. This is, after all, our investment in the livelihoods of our children beyond the age of 14, and in their capacity to nurture and support our children’s children, and beyond. And so we also have to contain the extension of our social security system within reasonable and affordable limits, and channel a growing share of resources to education, to skills development, to housing, water and sanitation, to building roads and modernising our transport networks and to our particular place at some of the frontiers of research, technology and scientific achievement. This is a question of balance, in the interests of progress across a broad front of social and economic development.

The Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement proposes a practical, progressive development of public expenditure and services over 2004 MTEF period ahead, which Parliament is invited to consider over the weeks ahead. The House is also requested to consider an Adjustments Appropriation Bill for the financial year ending 31 March 2004. Its details are explained in the 2003 Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure. Why is this necessary? Like the best laid plans, they sometimes need adjusting. This is where, in brief, the executive appeals to the legislature for increases in allocations to some programmes, decreases in others, shifts of funds between votes - all by comparison with the appropriations passed by the House just a few months ago. There is of course no limit whatever to the kinds of requests that careless departments might make at this time, but the Public Finance Management Act, in order to avoid unduly trying the patience of the House, sets strict criteria. The most important is that new allocations can only be for emergencies - unforeseen and unavoidable expenditure.

This year the Treasury committee has approved, amongst other amounts, the following: R103 million for the Department of Home Affairs, mainly for unanticipated costs of the Lindela Detention Centre and for the current ID campaign in preparations for the elections next year; R34 million for the rehabilitation of flood-damaged infrastructure in the Western Cape and for provincial and local Government to settle outstanding liabilities to eleven KwaZulu-Natal municipalities; R180 million to the Department of Public Works for unanticipated rates and municipal charges owing on state properties; R90 million for the Department of Health to begin implementation of a broader treatment plan for HIV/Aids; R27 million for the Department of Correctional Services for unanticipated increases in costs of health care for prison inmates, transport costs and urgent repair works amongst the others;

A further R500 million to meet the unanticipated costs on the Defence Vote of phase 3 of the United Nations peace missions in the DRC, South Africa’s participation in the Burundi peace mission and the provision of support to the UN mandated interim emergency multinational force in Bunia from June to August this year; R36 million on the Agriculture Vote to combat foot and mouth disease and provide emergency fodder assistance to farmers in the Limpopo province; R50 million in the Communications Vote to meet unanticipated costs of closure of the Bophuthatswana Broadcasting Corporation and the settlement of liabilities to Icasa; R20 million to the Department of Transport to meet urgent road repair costs to a number of border posts; and R346 million for the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, maily to respond to forest fires, meet emergency water supplies in drought-affected communities, settle unrecoverable debt obligations of several water user associations and meet restructuring costs associated with transfer of staff and infrastructure to municipalities and other entities.

Members of this House will recall that in the main Budget Speech, I announced that an allocation to provide for the recapitalisation of the Post Office will be made, subject to the separation of the Post Bank from the rest of the business and agreement on a business plan to put the agency on a sound financial footing. Cabinet has agreed to set aside R750 million for this purpose and the Department of Communications has the responsibility for ensuring that outstanding issues are resolved to enable this capitalisation transfer to be effected before the end of the financial year.

The adjusted estimates also provide R2,1 billion in transfers to the provinces to meet unforeseen and unavoidable expenditure, mainly arising from a more rapid uptake of disability grants and other social benefits than we had anticipated. A further R100 million will go to the provinces as conditional grants to meet higher than anticipated budgeted costs of extending the child support grant to seven and eight year-olds this year.

Honourable members will observe that an amount of R400 million is provided for on the National Treasury Vote in the Adjustments Appropriation Bill for additional service benefits for members of Parliament and members of provincial legislatures. [Interjections.] Wat wil julle hoor? [What do you want to hear?] [Laughter.]

Members who do not return to their elected office, who have left their seats, will receive a supplementary service term benefit equivalent to an annual pensionable salary for a completed term of service, up to a maximum of two terms.

There are certain other adjustments. Taking into account the higher than budgeted Public Service salary increases in July this year, R150 million is allocated to national departments and R257 million to provinces. Amounts totalling R423 million are appropriated on various votes in respect of self- financing expenditure, donations received for specific purposes, revenue generated from the sale of military equipment, a refund from the land bank of unutilised disaster relief funds, a recovery of fraudulently claimed subsidy payments from a bus operator and operational revenue from Government forest areas.

The adjustments appropriation also provides for R1,1 billion in approved roll-overs of monies unspent by national departments in the previous fiscal year. In total, R5,4 billion in additional expenditure is proposed, of which R2,5 billion will go directly to the provinces. But, there are also savings to report, believe it for not. The state debt costs will be R3,8 billion less than anticipated in February, mainly as a result of a stronger Rand. Defence expenditure on the strategic arms procurement programme this year will be R1 billion less than budgeted. An expenditure brought by the Department of Foreign Affairs is reduced by R114 million.

An amount of R250 million budgeted for the transfer to the Unemployment Insurance Fund will not be required as the fund is running a substantial surplus at present. About R200 million for capital works on the Correctional Services Vote will not be spent this year. An amount of R215 million on the Housing Vote is surrendered as a result of the disestablishment of the SA Housing Trust and the transfer of its liabilities into Government debt.

Taking into account these savings, the contingency reserve of R3 billion in the main budget framework and an anticipated underspending of about R700 million on various Votes, the revised expenditure level for 2003-4 is R331,5 billion, or R2,5 billion less than the main budget estimate. On this fiscally responsible concluding note, I commend the 2003 Adjustment Appropriation Bill for further consideration of this House.

South Africa is a great place to be. [Applause.] Not just because we have a sound economy, beautiful beaches, game parks, cultivate wonderful wine, produce wonderful kwaito music and have a Finance Minister who has just given R400 million to members of Parliament, but because as a nation, we are building our future. We are doing so by confronting our past. We are addressing our challenge, growths and development performance, and the gap between the modern economy and the marginalised communities.

We are dealing with these issues. We have a sound economy, a responsible budget framework, a plan to raise the level of investment in the economy, firm proposals to tackle unemployment, strong growth in social transfers and a concerted drive to lower the levels of crime. It is this determination of our people that makes this country a great place to be. [Applause.]

In looking back at the development of economic policy in our young democracy over the past decade, there has been one outstanding force that we should acknowledge today. I refer to the influence of Maria Ramos, the outgoing Director-General of National Treasury. [Applause.] As a leader in the Treasury and the economic arena in a broader sense, Maria has played a decisive role in strengthening the linkages between growing the economy and fighting poverty. It is her unstinting commitment and understanding of the role that macroeconomic stability plays in reducing poverty and enemployment in the long term that she will be remembered for.

On behalf of all in the National Treasury, and the entire team, we wish Maria well in her new endeavours. I don’t know where she is. Oh! she is back in the box. We are confident that she will make as great an impact on our transport industry, as she had on our public finances. I would also like to thank my colleagues in Cabinet and in particular, the members of the Minister’s Committee on the Budget. Special thanks go to provincial finance MECs, the FFC and the SA Reserve Bank. Finally, I would like to express my sincerest appreciation to all of you, for having the patience to listen to me this afternoon. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The Bill, together with related papers tabled, referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration and report.

                       SOCIAL ASSISTANCE BILL
              (Decision of Question on Second Reading)

Question put: That the Bill be read a second time.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 238: Abrahams, T; Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Arendse, J D; Asmal, A K; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Baloyi, S F; Bapela, O; Benjamin, J; Blaas, A; Bloem, D V; Botha, N G W; Cachalia, I M; Carrim, Y I; Cassim, M F; Chalmers, J; Chauke, H P; Chiba, L; Chikane, M M; Cindi, N V; Cronin, J P; Daniels, N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Dudley, C; Duma, N M; Durand, J; Dyani, M M Z; Erwin, A; Fankomo, F C; Fazzie, M H; Fihla, N B; Geldenhuys, B L; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gillwald, C E; Gogotya, N J; Goniwe, M T; Goosen, A D; Gous, S J; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hanekom, D A; Hendrickse, P A C; Hogan, B A; Holomisa, S P; Jassat, E E; Jeebodh, T; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Johnson, C B; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kannemeyer, B W; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kati, J Z; Kgauwe, Q J; Kgwele, L M; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Lamani, N E; Landers, L T; Lekgoro, M K; Lekota, M G P; Lishivha, T E; Lobe, M C; Lockey, D; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N; Lyle, A G; Mabandla, B S; Mabena, D C; Mabuyakhulu, V D; Madasa, Z L; Madikiza, G T; Maduna, P M; Magashule, E S; Magazi, M N; Mahlangu- Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N; Mahomed, F; Maimane, D S; Maine, M S; Makasi, X C; Malahlela, M J; Maluleke-Hlaneki, C J; Manie, M S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Masala, M M; Maserumule, F T; Masithela, N H; Masutha, M T; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, M A; Mbadi, L M; Mbombo, N D; Mdladlana, M M S; Meruti, V; Meshoe, K R J; Mfundisi, I S; Mkono, D G; Mlambo-Ngcuka, P G; Mlangeni, A; Mnandi, P N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnguni, B A; Mnumzana, S K; Moatshe, M S; Modise, T R; Modisenyane, L J; Moeketse, K M; Mofokeng, T R; Mogoba, M S; Mohamed, I J; Mohlala, R J B; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Moloi, J; Moloto, K A; Mongwaketse, S J; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Moosa, M V; Morobi, D M; Moropa, R M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Moss, M I; Mothoagae, P K; Motubatse-Hounkpatin, S D; Mpahlwa, M B; Mpaka, H M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mutsila, I; Mzondeki, M J G; Nair, B; Nash, J H; Ndzanga, R A; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, N; Ngubeni, J M; Ngwenya, M L; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njobe, M A A; Nkabinde, N C; Nobunga, B J; Nqakula, C; Nqodi, S B; Ntombela, S H; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, J T; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa- Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, S N; Nzimande, L P M; Olckers, M E; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oliphant, M N; Oosthuizen, G C; Pahad, A G H; Pahad, E G; Phadagi, M G; Phala, M J; Phohlela, S; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ratsoma, M M; Rhoda, R T; Ripinga, S S; Robertsen, M O; Routledge, N C; Rwexana, S P; Saaiman, P W; Saloojee, E (Cassim); Schippers, J; Schneeman, G D; Schoeman, E A; Schoeman, R S; Seeco, M A; Sekgobela, P S; September, C C; Sibande, M P; Sikakane, M R; Skhosana, W M; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sosibo, J E; Southgate, R M; Swart, S N; Tarr, M A; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tsheole, N M; Tshivhase, T J; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; Van Wyk, Annelizé; Van Wyk, J F; Van Wyk, N; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, S C; Xingwana, L M T; Zondo, R P; Zuma, J G.

NOES - 58: Bell, B G; Biyela, B P; Blanché, J P I; Borman, G M; Camerer, S M; Clelland-Stokes, N J; Da Camara, M L; Davidson, I O; Doman, W P; Eglin, C W; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Ferreira, E T; Gibson, D H M; Grobler, G A J; Groenewald, P J; Hlengwa, W M; Jankielsohn, R; Koornhof, N J van R; Le Roux, J W; Lee, T D; Leon, A J; Lowe, C M; Maluleke, D K; Matthews, V J G; Mdlalose, M M; Middleton, N S; Millin, T E; Moorcroft, E K; Morkel, C M; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Ngema, M V; Ngiba, B C; Ntuli, R S; Opperman, S E; Rabie, P J; Rabinowitz, R; Redcliffe, C R; Roopnarain, U; Schalkwyk, P J; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Semple, J A; Seremane, W J; Skosana, M B; Smuts, M; Steele, M H; Swart, P S; Theron, J L; Van Deventer, F J; Van Niekerk, A I; Vezi, T E; Waters, M; Woods, G G; Zondi, K M; Zulu, N E.

Question agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time. PRECEDENCE GIVEN TO STATEMENT BY THE MINISTER OF HEALTH

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The next item on the Order Paper is a statement by the Speaker … Where is the Speaker? We need the Speaker to come and make a statement.

Hon members, may we delay the statement by the Speaker. I am sure there is no objection to us delaying that. I would like us to go on to the next item. We will come back to the statement.

The next item is an opportunity requested by the hon Minister of Health to make a statement on Diabetes Week. I now afford her that opportunity. [Applause.]

          STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF HEALTH ON DIABETES WEEK

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, my colleagues in the House, as we approach 10 years of freedom and democracy it should be clear to all of us that South Africa has changed. More people have houses, water and sanitation than ever before. Our schools are places of learning for all our children. Gradually, our cultural institutions are beginning to reflect our multicultural nature. Great strides have been made in terms of black economic empowerment. More people who are very poor qualify for social assistance grants - there is so much that we can be proud of.

From a health perspective, we now have a health system based on primary health care. And, we have built hundreds of new clinics all over our country to ensure that people have access to health services relatively close to where they live or work. We provide free medical care to pregnant women and children under the age of six years; we facilitate termination of pregnancies; we strictly control tobacco use; we encourage vaccination and ensure their availability; and we are refurbishing our hospitals. Again, there has been so much change.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, please lower your voices.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: But, not all change is positive. This is especially so from a health perspective. Currently, our country is undergoing what we call an epidemiological transition. In simple language this means that our people are beginning to fall prey to different kinds of illnesses. In particular, we find that more and more people are coming to our health facilities with blood pressure problems, heart problems, cancers, strokes, diabetes and vascular diseases. And this is the case, not just in urban areas but in rural areas as well.

All of these diseases share a common characteristic. They are largely diseases of lifestyle. In other words, these are mostly diseases that we bring upon ourselves through the way that we live our lives. We bring these diseases on ourselves through the choices that we make. In short, we are entirely responsible for some of the illnesses that we get.

You see, colleagues, in addition to seeing more clinics in our cities and towns, and in our rural areas, we are seeing more and more fast-food outlets. As more and more people can afford to buy television sets, we see more and more people sitting for hours in front of their television sets. And, as more and more people get offices, we see more and more people sitting at their desks all day without taking the necessary breaks for exercise.

In short, we are, as a nation, becoming fatter and also much less fit. We have changed our diets to include greater amounts of bad food, particularly sugar and fat. We are eating more and more food such as hamburgers, icecream, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and so on, and chips.

We are also undertaking less and less physical activity. Some of us used to walk but are now driving cars all the time. Some of us used to undertake physical activity around the house but are now getting other people to do it for us, or are just not bothering to do it at all. And, these two things, what we eat and how much exercise we get, are the two components in our choice to live healthy or unhealthy lifestyles.

Diabetes is a common condition that is unfortunately growing in scale in South Africa and in the rest of the world. In fact, according to the World Health Organisation there is a diabetic epidemic happening in the world. This is clear from the international statistics. In 1985 approximately 30 million people suffered from diabetes. Ten years later the figure had increased fivefold to 135 million people. By 2000, estimates had reached 177 million and it is predicted that by 2025 there will be more than 300 million diabetic people in the world.

Diabetes, a disease of lifestyle, was associated in the past mainly with the developed world. However, the World Health Organisation is predicting that by the year 2025 more than 75% of all diabetic cases will be found in the developing world. This will greatly increase the burden of health care systems that have already been hit hard by communicable diseases. In South Africa we, too, are a developing country, therefore the time has come for all of us to sit up and take notice.

More and more South Africans are presenting health institutions with a variety of symptoms that result in a diagnosis of diabetes. We suspect that many more people may have symptoms of diabetes but are as yet undiagnosed. Here are some of the statistics in our country. It is estimated that approximately 3 million South Africans are currently diabetic and this is about 8% of our population. Approximately, 90% of all diabetic patients are over the age of 40 years. More than half of the South African diabetics are male. Asian South Africans have the highest level of diabetes - almost double the national average and that is already alarming. These statistics will become more catastrophic if we don’t take action immediately.

The solution lies in our own hands: with education and prevention we can stabilise and then hopefully reverse the trend - it is possible. Do you know whether you are not diabetic or have sugar problems? Perhaps some of us do. Many people do not, but that is going to change, starting today. This is Diabetes Week; it is a week that is set aside in the international health calendar to raise awareness about diabetes. This means that during this week, in health facilities all over the world, including our own country, South Africa, health professionals will be making people aware of what diabetes is, how it can be treated - and just as importantly, how not to get it in the first place.

Diabetes is a complex disease, but every one of us can understand it and do something about it, and we should. Basically there are two types of diabetes: one type appears to be hereditary. In other words, it passes down from one family member to another. Of course, we have less control over this kind of diabetes which can strike even very young children. But, we can prevent it from happening in some of our families, in the first place. This kind of diabetes is called early onset diabetes. The second kind of diabetes is called late onset diabetes. It can occur in any adult but mostly in those who are over the age of 45 years. This kind of diabetes can most easily be prevented or, at the very least, postponed, especially in the high risk groups. It is all a matter of choice, your choice and my choice.

You, as an individual, can do a lot to prevent yourself and your family members from getting diabetes in the first place. All you have to do is to make a conscious choice to live a healthy lifestyle. If you are overweight you can lose weight; if you are eating fast foods you can start eating healthy food like fruit, vegetables and pap - remember to add garlic as well and also a lemon. [Laughter.] And, you can reduce your intake of fatty food or sugar; you can try not to overeat; and you can ensure that you take regular exercise at least five times a week. You don’t need to go to a gym to do so. A brisk 30-minute walk most days of the week will improve your health and decrease the chance that you will develop diabetes.

Now, let me tell you how you will know if you are at risk of developing diabetes. You are at risk if you have a family history of diabetes; if you are carrying excess weight; if you are over 45 years of age; if you do not get regular exercise; if you are stressed; if you smoke cigarettes and any tobacco products; if your diet is high in sugar and carbohydrates; if you have had sugar problems in the past or if you have had diabetes during pregnancy. Just by listening to me list these factors you realise that indeed that many of us are at high risk of diabetes.

There are several symptoms which indicate that you may already have diabetes or sugar problems. These symptoms include: when you have to urinate frequently; when you have an abnormal thirst and a very dry mouth; when you constantly feel tired or you lack energy; when you suddenly lose a lot of weight; when you seem to be hungry all the time, even if you have just eaten; when you start experiencing blurred vision or when you get recurrent skin infections that are slow to heal, or when your skin feels itchy a lot of times.

Although there is no cure for diabetes, effective treatment does exist. With a timely diagnosis, access to appropriate treatment and a conscious change to a healthy lifestyle a person with diabetes should be able to lead a normal active life, and reduce the risk of developing complications like blindness and amputations.

In order to help parliamentarians know whether they are at risk of diabetes or not, the Department of Health, in conjunction with a pharmaceutical company - Eli Lilly, has erected a stall in the corridor outside the Old Assembly to provide free tests for diabetes and also to give out information. Many people were tested today and you would be surprised how many we have diagnosed as having diabetes. In fact, one of them already had it at the age of 28 and was already losing her vision. If you have not already been tested, please go to the stall before the end of the day to determine you blood sugar levels.

I urge you to think about what you are hearing here today. If you are currently experiencing any of the symptoms that I described a moment ago, I suggest that you go to your doctor or the nearest clinic as soon as possible. If you had a test done today and your sugar levels are unacceptable, change your lifestyle to make sure that you keep them at an acceptable level. If you are borderline case seek medical help and if you are already diabetic make sure that you control your diabetes properly. I also ask you to take some of the pamphlets that are available today at the testing booth back to your constituencies. You can make a real positive contribution to the health of our people if you take this message back to your constituencies and your communities.

We must work together to make sure that we are aware of diabetes and of the importance of changing our lifestyles. We must lift any stigma attached to diabetes, and help educate people about the prevention and management of diabetes. Your role in this regard, as parliamentarians and community leaders, cannot be overestimated.

Now, it is my pleasure to announce some very good news to this House. There are two significant new programmes relating to diabetes that are just beginning. Firstly, the Department of Health wants to inform you today about a new public-private partnership that we are entering into with the pharmaceutical company that I have just mentioned. In terms of this programme, the pharmaceutical company will undertake to implement diabetes training programmes for health professionals, especially nurses in our provinces. They will start with training in our less advantaged provinces and in particular Mpumalanga, Eastern Cape and Limpopo.

This training will also coincide with the implementation of the diabetes guidelines that have recently been developed by the Department of Health. In addition, the programme will include workshops and seminars for members of the public and the dissemination of posters and pamphlets. There is no doubt in my mind that our new guidelines, with better trained health professionals and with a better informed public, will be able to turn the tide on diabetes and lift the health levels of our people.

The second announcement concerns a programme called, ``Life for a Child with Diabetes’’. This is an international partnership between Eli Lilly pharmaceuticals, the International Diabetes Federation and Rotary International. In South Africa Eli Lilly will take the lead role in the roll-out of the programme. It is targeted at finding children who, as a result of poverty, cannot access diabetic treatment. The Ministry and the Department of Health welcome this programme and applaud it. I am assured by Eli Lilly that the Ministry will be kept abreast of the developments of the programme.

Diabetes need not swamp our country and eat up our resources, in particular our health resources. We can prevent it and as a result save lives and a lot of money, and ourselves too. We can also manage diabetes properly and keep it under control. These two will save money for other pressing areas in health care - it also starts with you and me.

Please, colleagues, let us work together on these. Firstly, I am asking you, personally, to think before you eat and get as much exercise as you can. Secondly, I am asking you to take this initiative into your families, your communities and your constituencies. Together we can and will make a difference. I thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Madam Deputy Speaker, an estimated three million South Africans suffer from type two diabetes, which is a lifestyle disease. In other words: it is man and woman made. Currently, the world is facing a massive epidemic of type two diabetes, and at the International Diabetes Federation Conference held in Paris last month it was revealed that the number of people suffering from diabetes worldwide has increased from 50 million in 1985 to 417 million. That is people who suffer from diabetes or have the potential to.

The federation decided to declare diabetes a worldwide catastrophe. It develops mainly through incorrect eating habits and a lack of exercise. Refined foods such as white bread, wheat flour and fizzy soft drinks are all examples of incorrect eating, and coupled with fat in a diet, it is a lethal combination.

Having a hamburger and a fizzy drink is possibly the worst example of what we can do to our physiology. The body simply does not know what to do with such food and thus stores it as a fat. That is why so many of us start sprouting ``boeps’’ or spare tyres, as we call them.

South Africa is on its way to overtaking America as the world’s fattest nation. A recent study by the Medical Research Council found that almost half of South Africans over the age of 15 are overweight or obese. What is worse, what used to be an adult condition, is now affecting children as young as ten years old; as parents reward their children with sweets, chocolates, hamburgers and chips.

Children need to be educated on the dangers of overeating and incorrect eating. Introduction of such a subject should be looked into for the school curriculum. In order to determine if you are at risk of becoming diabetic you should measure your waistline in relation to your hips. If your waistline is larger than your hips, you are a high risk person.

I do not believe that this House is a good example for South Africa. We only need to look around to see how close to home the problem really is. Parliament could set an example by relooking at the menu of the parliamentary restaurants. [Interjections.]

The consequences of diabetes are heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure, blindness and amputation. As diabetes is a non-notifiable disease, no one actually knows how much it is costing the country, because when a person is admitted to hospital for amputation or for any other condition caused by diabetes, it is not recorded as a symptom of that condition. The Minister should consider making diabetes a notifiable disease.

What does boggle the mind is that the state refuses to provide strips at Government hospitals in order for diabetics to test their sugar levels - which is vital in the fight to control that disease. The cost of these is roughly R100 per month per patient. The cost of an amputation is roughly R120 000, which the state does actually pay for.

South Africa has the highest amputation figures in the world. Surely it makes more sense to provide these strips at a cost of R100 per month than to spend tenths of thousands of rands to avoid unavoidable amputations? With South Africans piling on the fat at an enormous rate, it is high time that we as leaders of the country led the way by showing the country, and the youth in particular, that eating right is the right thing to do. [Applause.]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Madam Deputy Speaker, when I was trained as a doctor, that was somewhere back in the last century, a diagnosis of diabetes was a cause for great concern. It meant one would have to undergo repeated needle pricks for blood tests and for insulin treatment, and probably suffer infections, high blood pressure, coronary strokes and vascular disease, but with the progress of medical science, fortunately for us, those days are gone. Diabetes is a highly manageable chronic illness, so long as one knows that one has it and takes the right steps to manage it. This is the value of Diabetes Week, namely to increase awareness of the disease that is increasing in prevalence as the Minister pointed out. The IFP commends this initiative. Nowadays most diabetics can be controlled by taking tablets. The test is quick, simple and painless. People are realising how much of a difference simple lifestyle changes make to the entire course of the disease. Why have we made such good progress in handling diabetes? Firstly, there has been constructive collaboration between the Government and the drug companies that produce diabetic medication, such as with Eli Lilly and Novartis. Secondly, because a great deal of money has been spent on research. Thirdly, because Government has engaged the pharmaceutical companies to bring down the cost of the medicines to the Government.

There are many parallels that could be drawn between the campaign against diabetes and that against HIV. Firstly, in diabetes the stigma has been removed. To do that, leaders, sports heroes and role models talk freely about their condition. Millions of South Africans are tested openly, and they talk openly. They are not differentiated from anyone else who doesn’t have diabetes. Then there is no discrimination and no one has a feeling that there is a need for secrecy. The same could be true of HIV if we treated it in the same way.

Secondly, for prices to Government to be brought down and medicines to be made freely available, Government put out tenders, and as a result, the pharmaceutical companies provide medicines for diabetes at 30% of the cost they are to the private sector. By contrast look at Aids medication, we have had much talk by Clinton on the need for cheaper prices. There was a court case against PMA over a law to give the Minister power to issue a compulsory licence for generic medicines. Voluntary licences have been given to companies to produce generics. Offers of antiretrovirals have been made for the medicines to be free in the case of nevirapine. Yet, we have made no progress on the provision of cheaper medicines for HIV. For some reasons, in HIV, the pharmaceutical companies were made the enemy and part of the problem. In relation to diabetes they are part of the solution.

Research is essential if we want major technological breakthroughs, and for state of the art research we look to genetics and find that here right in UCT a gene has been identified for type one diabetes which will make it possible to immunise children against diabetes.

To the public, to minimise the problems of diabetes, one says simply: exercise, eat more fruit and vegetables, eat less sweets, cooldrinks, pastries, fried foods and refined starch. Eat more nuts, beans and lentils. If you can afford it, eat proteins such as meat, fish and eggs, and keep your weight down.

To Government one says: Educate the public by working with the drug companies, put out tenders for medicines and invest in research. Fourthly, if we want to lead by example - as I do by getting out of my seat frequently - we must ask the Deputy Minister to please put a good gym into Parliament so that we can exercise and do yoga, pilatus, bicycle riding; and even put a bicycle into the House so that we can take turns to exercise our bodies while we are exercising our minds. I hope the Deputy Speaker is listening to my appeal on all of our behalves.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, not only has your time expired, but you don’t know your Parliament. There are gyms, and they are fully equipped. [Laughter.] I have received a note, hon members, asking whether it is parliamentary that all speakers should be thin and be talking as they like about people with fuller figures. [Laughter.]

Dr S J GOUS: Madam Deputy Speaker, diabetes is by definition an excessive thirst accompanied by excessive output. It comes from the Greek word which literally means siphoning and ``mellitus’’ which means sweetness or sugar. Therefore, diabetes mellitus means siphoning sugar or sweetness.

At the end of 2001, it was estimated that 177 million people were living with diabetes worldwide. This figure is rising and we are expecting it to be 220 million by 2010. There are two main types of diabetes, namely type one, which is a genetic disorder characterised by young onset, autoantibodies and insulin dependency.

The implication is that the treatment is by injection, and in the future the cure might lie with genetic manipulation. This is also one of the diseases that we as health workers perpetuate. Before any treatment was available, these patients usually died before puberty. They are now kept alive and chances are that they will meet other diabetics, get married and have children with a very high possibility of also having this type one diabetes.

Type two is characterised by later onset, obesity and insulin resistance. This is likened to an epidemic, and it’s referred to as a lifestyle disease. It can be controlled and treated with oral medication, lifestyle changes and diet. It accounts for 85% to 95% of diabetes in the Western countries, and for probably more in the developing world. It uses a significant part of our health resources in South Africa, and there are about 1,5 million South Africans suffering from the disease. That is between 5% and 10% of the population.

Contributing factors are ageing, sedentary lifestyle, poor eating habits and obesity. The complications are vascular disease and it leads to heart disease, kidney disease and blindness. In fact, it’s the most common cause of blindness in adults.

The main message is that type two diabetes is largely preventable by lifestyle intervention. So let’s get off our fat backsides, do some exercise, eat properly and prevent the costly disease of sugar diabetes. [Interjections.] Thank you.

Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Deputy Speaker, the ACDP applauds efforts by the Minister and her department to create awareness around diabetes and welcomes efforts during Diabetes Week by health facilities. We also welcome the public-private partnerships aimed at managing disease in all provinces.

Diabetes ranks third in South Africa after heart disease and cancer in terms of morbidity and mortality, and it is a growing problem. The prevalence in adults is 4% for whites, up to 8% for blacks and 13% for Indians.

While changing eating habits and sedentary lifestyles could be the reason for the increase in diabetes; it is curious that this increase is in both rural and urban areas. We join the Minister of Health in encouraging South Africans to value their health and pursue healthy lifestyles.

However, it is with great sadness that I respond to the Minister’s reference to Government support for and promotion of the termination of pregnancy. Government’s lack of respect for life, demonstrated by the legal murder of South African unborn babies, is tragic and horrifying and undermines the health of our nation. Thank you.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not easy to be a diabetic; it is a life-altering disease. The MF is concerned for the health and well- being of our nation, and urges not only diabetic sufferers but noninfected persons, too, to educate themselves on the prevention of diabetes and how to care for diabetics.

More importantly, the MF urges us as Parliament to embark on efforts to prevent diabetes because of our rich indulgence in snacks that cause diabetes. Parliament’s menus and refreshments should receive attention to ensure healthy meals for a healthy Parliament.

Diabetes kills and needs to be taken very seriously. It has become one of the most common problems that people from all walks of life suffer from. The fact is that it can be prevented, in most instances. The MF calls on the House, our citizenry and the world to acknowledge the effect of diabetes and make every effort to avoid it by choosing a healthy lifestyle and healthy alternatives.

Thank you, hon Minister, for your advice on how to control diabetes. Diabetes sufferers say, ``What can I do? If I don’t eat, I shiver but when I eat, I get sugar.’’ Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Madam Deputy Speaker, as one of the members of the Indian community in South Africa with a very high incidence of sugar diabetes, what I would like to say is that we need to take this to the schools and to our educational institutions. I recall that, having been advised about this problem many years ago, as a young person, I have been able to inculcate those good habits that the Minister spoke about with good and lasting health effects.

Children drink cool drinks and the tuck shops in our schools sell all the very sorts of things that the Minister asked us to be careful of. I believe that some sort of warning should be printed on cool drink bottles because in just one glass of cool drink there are about five to six, or even up to seven teaspoonsful of sugar. But that’s because we allow these things to be sold in the tuck shops to the children who acquire the taste for these things, and then to ask them to reform and change in adult life is very very difficult indeed.

So, if we need to stem this problem, the best way to do so is to go right to the schools where children are beginning to acquire these habits, and allow them to learn to have habits that will enable them to protect themselves in future. So, hon Minister, I wish to make a very very strong appeal to you to try and target the schools and the tuck shops to ensure that the message that you are sending out to the nation as a whole is sent out to the children. Because, it is when these children learn to acquire the good habits that we can be certain that the future population of South Africa will be able to protect itself against this menace.

And, by the way, I have just done my test, and my reading came out as 4,9. I am quite pleased with that. Thank you. Dr E E JASSAT: Madam Deputy Speaker, firstly, I would like to thank the Minister for alerting us to this condition which is so prevalent in this country. An estimated 90 000 people die daily from chronic, noncommunicable conditions such as cardiovascular diseases, diabetes and asthma. Another 80 000 people die daily from HIV/Aids.

Globally, chronic conditions are on the rise and will increasingly present a major public health challenge in the 21st century. A chronic condition such as diabetes will not only be the leading cause of disability throughout the world by the year 2020, if not successfully managed it will be the most expensive problem faced by our health care systems. In this respect, it poses a public health and economic problem to all countries, including South Africa.

To complicate matters, many developing countries are experiencing dramatic increases in chronic, noncommunicable conditions while continuing to face acute infectious diseases, malnutrition and poor maternal health.

Botswana is a prime example of this double burden of disease. Botswana’s HIV/Aids epidemic is well known. An estimated 33 000 people in Botswana are infected with HIV/Aids, including 39% of the population aged 15 to 49 years. What is less well known is that simultaneous to the HIV/Aids epidemic, Botswana’s Ministry of Health is reporting a notable increase in noncommunicable diseases such as cancer, hypertension and, of course, diabetes.

This double burden is placing new long-term demands on Botswana’s health care delivery system. To address the changing health burden of disease, Botswana’s Ministry of health recently created a team dedicated to noncommunicable diseases, surveillance, prevention and control - something we might also do in this country.

Similar trends can be seen in India. Although India’s HIV/Aids rate is relatively low and affects only 0,8% of the population aged 15 to 49 years, due to India’s large population, which is about a billion, this translates into 3,8 million of the population of the age group infected. India’s economic survey of 2001-02 recognised HIV/Aids as one of the most serious public health concerns in that country, while at the same time an epidemiological transition is under way which results in the increase in noncommunicable diseases.

Deaths caused by cardiovascular diseases alone are projected to double in the next 20 years. And, while it is more commonly believed that noncommunicable diseases are more prevalent in higher income groups, data from India’s national sample survey of 1995 showed that tobacco intake and alcohol misuse are highest in the poorest 20% of the population. The prevalence of noncommunicable diseases is therefore projected to increase most rapidly in the lower socioeconomic groups in the coming years.

The incidence of diabetes is the highest in the South African Indian ethnic group. Prof Campbell, many years ago, stated that this was due to the high consumption of sugar by the Indian group. He said that those in the rural areas would go to the cane fields and eat sugar and those in Durban and metropolitan areas would go to the takeaways and have sweetmeats that they produce. This, however, has now been proved to be incorrect. It has been shown that the high incidence of sugar diabetes amongst the Indian group is due to genetic factors. This has been made possible by the apartheid system which since 1913 prevented Indian brides from coming into this country, or South Africans of Indian origin marrying into another group. This intermarrying has resulted in this high incidence of sugar diabetes.

The Minister has warned us about our intake of food, prevention of alcohol consumption and smoking. She has also insisted that we should take to daily regular exercises. But I think, as a member has pointed out, this message must be transmitted to our schools and to our young people who now have taken to eating what they call ``junk food’’. Of course, this is a common cause of the high incidence of obesity. It is now being recognised that these fast takeaways are contributing to the high incidence of obesity and diabetes. We, in this country, must now take precaution and see to it that our young people live healthy and very productive lives. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

         STATEMENT BY THE SPEAKER ON PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT

The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, hon members, though I bring good news I don’t, unfortunately, have the final bit of good news which I had hoped would have arrived before now. Let me explain: Members will recall that last September, a couple of months ago, when we debated the matter of African unity and the Pan-African Parliament, I had indicated to the House that we should begin to prepare for the inaugural session of the Pan-African Parliament. I said then, and I repeat, that the Pan-African Parliament is no longer a matter for the distant future; it is no longer simply a concept or an idea about which Africa dreams and to which our people aspire - it is an immediate reality.

Therefore, the House can no longer afford to talk about it in the abstract. The debates can no longer be vague. We will have to be taking decisions about important issues in the very immediate future, certainly in November, if the Pan-African Parliament is to meet in January. Today is 12 November and the inaugural session will indeed be in January. I had hoped, as I had indicated, to give you the exact date but we are still awaiting that.

The second ordinary summit of the African Union in Maputo had resolved that the process of ratification be expedited in order to enable the parliament to meet before 31 January. The protocol requires ratification by a simple majority of member states to the original African Economic Community Treaty, to which the protocol is attached. There are only 47 states that are members of that treaty and, therefore, 24 instruments are required. As of today, Algeria, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Egypt, Ethiopia, the Gambia, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Mali, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Rwanda, the Sahrawari Democratic Republic, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda and Zimbabwe have ratified.

Tomorrow, we expect Senegal to deposit its instrument of ratification which will bring the protocol into force within 30 days, that is 13 December. A number of other parliaments have advised us that they have ratified or done their part, and their heads of state will be depositing the instruments in the next few weeks - that is four or five more ratifications. Now, it is the intention of the commission to convene the inaugural session before the end of January. Thus, the Pan-African Parliament will be established within the timeframes set by the Maputo summit, which had resolved that it should meet before 31 January.

That same resolution stressed the importance of setting up this organ, and I quote:

… which will ensure the effective and full participation of the African peoples in the development and integration of the continent.

Meeting those timeframes and the first organ to be established within that resolution is a major achievement for our continent, but it also poses a major challenge for us. As the Parliament of South Africa, we need to prepare for that inaugural session and we need to give serious thought to what we do as part of those African peoples to make that institution serve its purpose, to make it a true parliament, and to ensure that it functions in a way that ensures the participation of our people in the development and integration of the continent.

Immediately, we are going to have to elect five members of this Parliament to represent us. This election will need to take place within the next two weeks. We have to determine how that election will be undertaken and how we will compose our five representatives. Now, I want to draw attention to article 4(2) of the protocol, which makes it clear that the representatives of each parliament must reflect the diversity of political opinions within it. At least, one of the five has to be a woman. Our Parliament has already resolved that three of our five representatives will be women.

So, what is the process we put in place to ensure that we have a fully representative delegation? Immediately when we elect the five members from this Parliament we have to determine how that election will be undertaken and, as I said, how we will compose the five representatives.

I want to stress that the emphasis on the representivity is taken very seriously by the commission and by the heads of state. The African Union is unique among multilateral institutions in committing itself to full gender equality in its appointments. And starting with the commission itself, it has ensured that 50% of the 10 commissioners, namely five, are in fact women. That was the decision made in Maputo, and the appointments were made accordingly.

For the Pan-African Parliament a credentials committee is being established. That committee will not accredit any representation that does not conform with the stipulated requirements of gender and political diversity. My understanding of this is that all five representatives would be rejected if there is not at least one woman amongst the five. And if the political diversity of the parliament is not reflected among the five. So, a procedure that will secure that outcome is required. Obviously, each parliament will have to determine its own procedure.

We also have to consider other limitations in the protocol in terms of who can be elected. Now I know that a number of members of the executive are here, and I regret to inform you that the protocol does not allow that you be elected to represent this Parliament in the Pan-African Parliament. [Interjections.] You may, of course, be part of government delegations that will come and account.

Another item that we have to consider is what kind of oath of office. Before the end of this week we will be receiving draft oaths from the commission, which will be submitted to the AU working group of this House to consider, and it will report to us on its recommendations. We will, of course, have to agree as an entire continental group as to what the oath will be, but we ourselves will be able to make an input into the draft that I submitted.

The Pan-African Parliament would need to choose from amongst themselves five presiding officers: a president and four vice-presidents. One will have to come from each region. Here again, there is a need for a mechanism for that selection. But, I believe there are principles which need to be linked to the procedure. Is it our view that each of the five regions will simply nominate somebody? In other words, that we will have a group of presiding officers who will represent regions, or is it that we desire an outcome where the Pan-African Parliament will have five presiding officers who, individually and collectively, will speak on behalf of the entire continent? In other words, on behalf of that entire parliament? In my view, I would commend the latter, and, therefore, we have to find a mechanism for selection that will allow each one of the members of the Pan-African Parliament to vote for each one of the five representatives. In other words, we should not have a system where a region simply nominates one person whom the Pan-African Parliament endorses.

How then do we provide for that representation? That is a challenge. I understand the commission will be submitting alternatives which we will need to look at, but we can make our own input into that. Now I spoke of five regions, one of the issues we have to look into is that the five regions do not include SADC. We have become accustomed to the view that SADC is where we belong on a continental scale. Creating or working on this parliament has been an educative exercise. SADC is an economic community, and it is not a unit of the African Union, nor was it of the Organisation of African Unity. Southern Africa, in terms of the African Union, is smaller than SADC. So, one of the issues we have to look at is how we will choose those five presiding officers, or make our choice amongst them.

The Southern Africa region has 10 members only, that is Angola, Botswana, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Swaziland, Zambia and Zimbabwe. Amongst those excluded, we have the Democratic Republic of Congo, which now has a parliament, Seychelles, Tanzania, and I think it is Mauritius, so it is smaller than SADC, which we are used to.

Now the challenge posed by the variation between the five regions recognised by the OAU, and now by the AU, and the 14 regional economic communities that have been established, is one of the priorities that the commission intends to address. There is an expectation that the Pan-African Parliament will have to assist in this process, but that happens after January, and our focus is on what we do before January.

I have already indicated that what we need to do is to elect our members, but we need to look at the oath and at mechanisms, and a whole range of issues which in the next few days will be submitted to every parliament on the continent by the commission of the African Union. Now what this requires of us is that every member here, and those not here, and every political party have to ensure that our inputs are made on all of these issues before the five representatives go to Addis Ababa for the inaugural session.

This can be done through the working group that we have established, and to which all the documents we receive will be submitted. It will have to consider the documents and make appropriate recommendations on which this House will have to take decisions - certainly before the last week of this session.

Hon members, membership of the working group is large, and it is open to any member, even members of the executive, to attend and make inputs there. Regrettably very few members do attend. I would urge, and I have already spoken to the Chief Whips to ensure this, that in the next two meetings at least there is very, very full representation so that we can make our collective views known there, and thus empower our five representatives, whom we still have to choose, to make an input into that inaugural session of the Pan-African Parliament.

That is what we have to determine, that is up to this House and to the NCOP, because it is our Parliament that will be represented, not the National Assembly alone. So, that is the challenge before us. I trust we will meet it so that we will be truly represented in the Pan-African Parliament. I thank you. [Applause.]

    CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT ON JUDICIAL MATTERS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

There was no debate.

Mr S K Louw, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, moved: That the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

               JUDICIAL MATTERS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL
                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Deputy Speaker, thanks very much.

As is the practice with Bills of this nature, the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill comprises a number of amendments to laws administered by my department. As a matter of fact, a total of 16 Acts were amended in this Bill. The amendments do not require individual amending Acts. They mainly address certain problem areas which have arisen in practice. However, the Bill does also contain certain amendments, which are of a more substantial nature, some of which deserve mentioning.

The first one is to section 35B of the Insolvency Act, which deals with agreements on informal markets. The amendments to this section will allow for agreements that provide for the termination and netting of specified obligations. This will strengthen the country’s financial relationships with international banks and securities firms operating in South Africa which, in turn, can only benefit the country as a whole. The second amendment is an insertion of an additional section in the Criminal Procedure Act, which will give the complainant in a criminal matter the right to make representations in the case of certain serious offences when the placement of the accused in question on parole, day parole or under correctional supervision is considered at a meeting of the parole board. This insertion will allow a victim to be part of the decision- making process when the issue of parole or correctional supervision is considered by the parole board.

The Bill makes an amendment to the Attorneys Act which will make it compulsory for all newly admitted attorneys, whether they are practising as partners in an existing firm of attorneys or whether they are practising on their own account, to complete a legal practice management course. This will assist new lawyers and provide them with management and administrative skills.

The Bill also amends the Mediation in Certain Divorce Matters Act, the Maintenance Act and the Domestic Violence Act, which amendments are intended to allow family advocates to carry out investigations with regard to the welfare of minor or dependent children in maintenance enquiries, as well as in domestic violence proceedings in certain circumstances.

These amendments will, in effect, extend the current role of family advocates, which has, to date, been limited to interventions in divorce- related proceedings. These amendments will contribute to the protection of children’s interests in cases in which their parents are often involved in personal struggles against each other to the detriment of their offspring.

The following amendment relates to the Promotion of Access to Information Act, which currently contains no criminal sanction for public or private bodies that fail to produce a manual, as required in terms of the Act. A provision has now been added in terms of which either the information officer, in the case of a public body, or the head of a private body can face a fine or imprisonment of up to two years if he or she fails to comply with the requirements of this Act with regard to the submission of manuals.

This Act is intended to promote a culture of openness and transparency and, of course, easy access to information. These amendments are intended to make sure that public and private bodies make information available regarding their role, function and records, among other things. Failure to do so will bring them into conflict with the law.

These are just a few of the amendments contained in the Bill. There are many more that will have a positive effect on the administration of justice, in some way or another. Most of them are, however, self- explanatory and the memorandum on the objects of the Bill, accompanying the draft legislation, is quite comprehensive. It sets out in some detail what is envisaged with each and every proposed amendment.

May I thank the portfolio committee and, in particular, its chairperson, Adv Johnny de Lange, a member of this House, for the work of sterling quality they did in processing this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.] Adv J H DE LANGE: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, hon members, I rise on this occasion, again, to unconditionally support all the amendments to this legislation.

Let me start with some thank yous, starting with the Minister, once again, for his guidance and oversight on the matters; then, particularly Mr Lawrence Bassett and Miss Naidoo, from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, who did sterling work to make sure that this Bill would come before the House; and, of course, most importantly, my long- suffering committee.

I think they have not worked out that in terms of the way democracy works, if you don’t like the Chair you can actually nominate another one, and you can vote and actually get rid of this Chair. I was worrying during the recess of six weeks - when we sat - that someone would remember that, but no one did. They worked through the recess to make sure that this Bill and other Bills would be are ready for this Parliament to pass. I thank all of them, in particular the opposition parties, for working so diligently in enabling us to process this legislation and other legislation.

This is what we call a rommelkas'' [an omnibus] Bill in Afrikaans - ‘n rommelkaswet’’ [an omnibus Act]. One takes a whole lot of Acts and then amend them with one Bill. I think there are 15 pieces of legislation being amended in this one Bill. Some of the amendments are just technical ones, but others are of immense importance, and some of my colleagues will elaborate on those amendments today - explain what they are all about.

The Deputy Chief Whip of my party reminded me that one must be careful of these rommelkaswette'', because the 180-day detention law, which was passed many years ago by the apartheid Parliament, was slipped in through one of theserommelkaswette’’. Now, I can assure this House that there isn’t a 180-day detention law in this legislation, but other very important pieces of legislation are being amended.

One of those is the Administration Amendment Act. This, you will recall from a while back, used to be called the Black Administration Act - it is one of those infamous pieces of legislation that we still have not got rid of from the Statute Book. In terms of that legislation, our department a few years ago looked at the sections which dealt with black divorce courts and transformed those courts into courts that can be used by the whole population, while retaining them as divorce courts. These courts have been tremendously successful and have created access also for other population groups, and have been very popular in this regard.

However, the clause that deals with the appointment mechanism - although I do not think that there is anything wrong with this clause - has been interpreted as not allowing the Minister to make acting appointments. I don’t think so, because the clause just states that the Minister can make appointments of any fit and proper person; the clause doesn’t say whether they should be acting or permanent.

Therefore, although the department wanted to introduce a deeming clause so that all acting appointments would therefore have been legal in the past, our feeling was that this was not a good thing to do. Certainly it would not actually deal with the problem if anyone wanted to challenge it, and we should feel confident in ourselves that this clause does provide for both permanent and acting appointments.

So, what we have done, in any case, is amend the clause now to make it very clear that, in future, permanent appointments may be made in terms of the one clause. We have also included a clause that allows for acting appointments, and that will be done in the same manner as with magistrates.

Of course, as you know, these courts have not been rationalised into the present court system. That is also why the appointment mechanisms are different from magistrates’ courts. Therefore we have also passed a resolution in that we feel the department should very soon try to rationalise these courts into the court system so that we don’t have these kinds of problems, because, as has been pointed out, these courts have been tremendously successful on the ground, giving ordinary people access to courts, particularly on divorce matters.

The Minister has mentioned the amendment to section 35B of the Insolvency Act. This is an incredibly complicated clause. When the clause was introduced, nobody could understand what it meant. I think it was very badly written. It was, in fact, done by the banking sector themselves. After sitting down with them for a long time and on many occasions, we were able to work out what exactly was needed.

This clause, as I said, is very complex and really deals with when banks from this country enter into agreements with banks in other countries, and what would happen if one of those banks were to go insolvent, how one then terminated these agreements, and how one met the unperformed obligations or any assets that have been put forward as collateral for the different agreements. A whole procedure is set out on what to do in that instance. That is about as much as I understand about it. I think we now have the right clause to explain this. In any case, the banking sector is enormously happy, and we will see how they respond during the election campaign. That’s only a joke. [Laughter.]

Then, also, we have made numerous amendments to the Promotion of Access to Information Act. These are vital amendments, and we did at the time of passing the Bill say that there were very many technical problems that would come forth as we implemented this Act. Some of these technical problems we are now dealing with. For example, the Minister mentioned that both public bodies and private bodies have to publish a manual that sets out how they deal with access to information. Now, with the regulations that were drafted in this regard, there were three requirements: firstly, that you publish in the Government Gazette; secondly, that you publish it on your Internet site, if you have one; and, thirdly, you also give it to your professional body if you belong to one so that they have it available.

It quickly transpired that there were enormous problems with publication for private bodies - this includes companies of which there are a few hundred thousand in this country. Firstly, if they all had to publish their manual in the Government Gazette, this would be very costly. Secondly, the Government Gazette couldn’t cope - there were piles of documents that had to be dealt with. So we amended the regulations to deal with that issue, but, in the process, the Minister knows, we also found that some companies just said, ``There is no sanction in this legislation. So, if there is no sanction, we couldn’t care less; we won’t do what the law has prescribed.’’ They did not have a positive attitude to this.

We did note when we passed the legislation that we weren’t providing for sanctions, because we wanted to treat people as adults. We wanted to give them the opportunity to actually deal with this legislation being implemented without sanctions. It is very clear that this is not possible. Although we have changed this now in that you do not have to publish these manuals in the Government Gazette, we have also now provided for sanctions in the legislation in this regard, and then also through the regulations.

We have also had to extend, both in this Act and in the Promotion of Access to Justice Act, the period in which the rules have to be drafted so that those applications can be brought in the lower courts and not in the High Courts where they are brought now. We’ve also extended the period in which the Human Rights Commission has to publish the overall manual for dealing with the promotion of access to justice in the legislation.

The department also suggested that we make an amendment to section 79 of the Criminal Procedure Act. This is the Act that deals with the panel of psychiatrists that has to be appointed for the purposes of enquiring into the capacity of an accused person. This clause has created enormous problems in practice. Firstly, the panel of psychiatrists and the tariffs that have been provided have not allowed many of these psychiatrists to actually do this work. This piece of legislation has created enormous problems.

However, we were not in a position to actually make amendments to this clause, because there were too many outstanding issues. We have referred this clause back to the department to consult particularly with the Department of Health and the Department of Safety and Security in order to find new solutions as to how we deal with this problem, and not to dream these up in the committee. Therefore, this clause has been referred back to the department to do the necessary consultations, and that has to be introduced in due course.

I think there’s also a very important clause, which my colleagues will talk about, that deals with the role of victims when it comes to the question of whether certain types of criminals have to be given parole. This is a whole new clause that empowers victims, and I suggest that you have a look at this.

Lastly, we have introduced a very important clause regarding the problem of trials of awaiting-trial prisoners not beginning for years. We found that a certain two accused in the Eastern Cape had been sitting in prison since 1997, with their trial still not having begun, which is very problematic. We have now given the Minister a clause dealing with public prosecutions in terms of which we, as Parliament, receive reports from time to time on awaiting-trial prisoners, and the reasons why those trials have not begun. I hope that this will help all of us manage that aspect and help, particularly, the police make this much better.

There are a whole lot of other clauses that my colleagues will deal with. I thank you once again and I do appreciate the support for this legislation. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Deputy Speaker, this Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill is a compendium, as the chair has said, of mostly technical amendments, which are not controversial. I join the chair in thanking the officials for a job well done. This Bill also includes some very substantive improvements to our criminal law and procedure, which are to be welcomed. Accordingly, the DA supports the Bill.

However, we wish to particularly emphasise our support for the insertion of section 299A into the Criminal Procedure Act, which will at last give victims of serious violent crime the right to be heard when it comes to paroling the perpetrator. This is an important reform measure as far as our criminal law is concerned.

During my years as a member of Parliament, I’ve been approached often by outraged victims of assault, rape and so on and by their closest family members, complaining that they have been ignored by the authorities while the perpetrator of the crime, of which they fell victim, had been paroled. This is a further step down the road to empowering victims of crime, and is therefore welcomed by the DA. It is a step for which we have campaigned for some years as part of our campaign to give victims of crime legal recognition. [Interjections.]

In terms of this reform measure, when a court sentences a person to imprisonment for murder, rape, robbery, assault, sexual assault, kidnapping or an act of terrorism and so on, it must inform the victim or complainant, or, in the case of murder, the relatives of the deceased victim, that they have a right to make representations when placement on parole of the prisoner or perpetrator is considered.

They must give their details to the Commissioner of Correctional Services who, in turn, must pass them on to the parole board. How this will work in practice is difficult to envisage, particularly in the case of long sentences for serious violent crime. It might well be that both the victim and the perpetrator have moved from youth to old age by the time the provision becomes relevant. But what is important is that the principle that the victim has a role in paroling perpetrators has now been accepted into our law.

Another reform measure to be welcomed is the twice-yearly report to be tabled in Parliament by the National Director of Public Prosecutions on the number of awaiting-trial prisoners who have been held in jail for more than a year without their trial commencing. The number of awaiting-trial prisoners in our jails - some 60 000 at present- is an ongoing scandal. These prisoners clog up prisons so that at present 190 000 prisoners are being kept in facilities designed for 120 000.

The oversight visits around the country by the Justice portfolio committee revealed appalling abuses of human rights, including cases in which women and children, as mentioned by our chairperson, had been held for long periods awaiting trial for relatively minor offences.

These cases will no longer remain hidden from parliamentary scrutiny, and we will be able to regularly demand answers and take steps. Hopefully, this will improve the shocking inhumanitarian conditions in which so many of our prisoners are kept.

A further reform measure I would like to highlight is the new section 60(3), which legislates for a pretrial services report to be considered in bail hearings. Where they were introduced, as pilot projects at Mitchells Plain and Johannesburg magistrates’ courts with funding from the American Vera Institute, pretrial services worked excellently in keeping indigent minor offenders who are unable to pay low amounts of bail out of jail.

This excellent system in which probation officers, community organisations, communities and families are given roles in the criminal justice system to monitor and ensure that the offender comes to court on the day his or her case is to be heard, worked very well. There was a very low failure rate. Inexplicably, when the foreign funds dried up, the project was dropped instead of the Justice department finding the funds within its own budget to continue and expand the system.

The DA believes that this decision was wrong, particularly in light of the large number of awaiting-trial prisoners who are minor offenders, but who are languishing in jail merely because they are too poor to pay small amounts of bail. Judge Fagan estimates that there are some 20 000 of them. The Justice department should make every effort to ensure that pretrial services are available at all our major court centres.

Other amendments to be welcomed are the provisions giving a role to the family advocate, where available, in maintenance and domestic violence cases in order that the welfare of minor or dependent children be properly taken into account. The DA also has no problem with the other technical amendments already mentioned by previous speakers.

As a member of the Judicial Service Commission, I agree that the JSC’s deliberations when considering whether to appoint someone as a judge should remain confidential and be excluded from the Promotion of Access to Information Act. After all, all the other processes of the appointment are held in public.

In conclusion, this judicial matters Bill tidies up a number of aspects of our law, but it is not, in spite of its title, designed to tackle some of the root causes of the malaise that afflicts the administration of justice in our country. Some of these were highlighted this week in a statement published in the media by Mr Danie Olivier, a member of the North West Law Society and head of its own legal aid project, Legali.

When the organised legal profession’s elected representatives criticise the state of justice administration in our courts, they should be listened to. Mr Olivier levelled three serious accusations at the Justice department, namely that government departments and entities are not complying with court orders against them. The main culprit here, he fingered, was the state attorney, which does not ensure that orders are complied with. Mr Olivier points out that the Supreme Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court have been critical of Government for this.

Another point made by Mr Olivier is that state law advisers are guilty of poor legal drafting. No member of the Justice portfolio committee in Parliament would disagree with that, as we have to redraft virtually every Bill that comes before us. He also pointed a finger at the poor standard of judgments coming from magistrates, something which has also been criticised by the High Courts. It is in the power of the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development to do something about all this. Hopefully, he will try to do so before he bows out next year, if this is truly his intention. Perhaps he will tell us when he replies to the debate whether this is indeed so. There is no excuse for government departments to fail or be dilatory in complying with court orders.

The fast-tracking of affirmative action appointments with inadequate skills and training are among the reasons for the other problems Mr Olivier pointed out, and could easily be remedied with intensive training programmes which, of course, require resources. While the Justice College does a great job, its head constantly complains about the lack of resources preventing the college from fulfilling its mandate.

All these amendments and reforms of the law in this Bill are well and good. However, as the DA constantly points out, without adequate resourcing and in the almost 10 years of ANC rule, the Justice department and related departments have been starved of funds, as the Minister himself has acknowledged on occasion. Delivery of a better standard of justice is still a pipe dream. Thank you.

Mr T E VEZI: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As previously indicated by the Minister and the chairperson, this Bill contains a number of amendments to laws administered by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. The amendments mainly address problems encountered in practice, but some amendments are of a more substantial nature.

Bearing that in mind, I can only refer to a few amendments. Regarding the amendment providing for termination and netting, the memorandum on the objects of this Bill notes that there was concern that the application of the present section 35B of the Insolvency Act - agreements on informal markets - was too wide and that this may present many international banks and securities firms, who operate in South Africa, from taking on larger financial exposure.

Thus, the amendment provides that once liquidation proceedings have begun, involving a party to a master agreement, all unperformed obligations, either in terms of a master agreement or obligations in respect of collateral assets where ownership was transferred as a collateral security, are terminated, with the unperformed obligations then calculated at market value.

The amendment also provides, in this instance, that dispositions made without value cannot be set aside except where they are the result of collusive transactions and fraudulent dispositions.

Regarding the Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1977, section 60(2) provides for the court’s powers in any bail hearing. The amendment will compel the courts to take into account pretrial reports, where available, during bail proceedings. The purpose of a pretrial report is to assist courts in making a decision regarding the desirability of releasing an accused on bail.

There is also an amendment to the Criminal Procedure Act which is intended to create certainty, confirming that correctional supervision is indeed a sentencing option in the case of an offence whether common law or statutory. With regard to section 299 of the Criminal Procedure Act, the amendment provides that where an accused is convicted of certain serious crimes, the court must inform the complainant, or, in the case of murder, the deceased’s relatives who are present at the trial, that they have a right to make representations or attend the hearing at which parole or day parole of the prisoner is considered.

The provision in terms of the Attorneys Act, Act 53 of 1979, aims to reduce the number of claims against attorneys that arise on account of poor management and administration skills.

In terms of the Divorce Act of 1979, the Bill places a duty on the registrar to cause endorsement to be noted as soon as possible on the records of the pension fund.

With reference to the Domestic Violence Act, Act 116 of 1998, the amendment is intended to eliminate any uncertainty about whether administrators of pension funds can be ordered to make payment in terms of section 16(2) of the Maintenance Act. The amendment allows for enforcement of a maintenance order made under the Maintenance Act by way of execution. This ensures that provision is also applicable to maintenance orders that are made by the High Court and the divorce court.

Regarding section 10 of the Promotion of Access to Information Act of 2000, the amendment extends the amount of time in which the SA Human Rights Commission has to compile a guide in each official language on the information required by a person who wishes to exercise any right contained in the Promotion of Access to Information Act. Section 90 of the Act provides for penalties should the relevant public or private person wilfully or out of gross negligence fail to comply with the requisite manuals within the designated timeframes.

Regarding the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act, the definition of administrative action is extended at (gg) to include not only the appointment of a judicial officer, but also the nomination and selection of a judicial officer or any other person by the commission.

In terms of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, the amendment provides that any alteration to the boundaries of an equality court will not affect the status of any legal proceedings that have already been instituted but not yet completed.

In terms of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, the amendment addresses the position of surviving spouses of judges who retired under the Judges’ Pensions Act, Act 90 of 1978. When applying the provisions of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, the National Treasury encountered the problem that these particular surviving spouses would receive less than what they were currently receiving. The amendment attempts to address this problem, adjusting the amount to be paid to such pensioners and providing that the amount cannot be less than that which he or she received before any adjustment was made under this subsection. Having mentioned those amendments, the IFP supports the Bill. I thank you.

Ms I MUTSILA: Mufarela Mulangadzulo wa Mufumakadzi [Deputy Speaker], one of the main objectives of this Bill is that it seeks to reform the maintenance systems in order to cater for the welfare of children and persons who become victims of circumstances in this regard. Section 16 of the Maintenance Act of 1998 can possibly be considered to be its heart, since it deals with maintenance orders and the powers that maintenance courts have in this respect. The subsection, in other words, provides for what is often referred to as a garnish order in terms of which the courts direct the employer of the father who has maintenance obligations to pay the maintenance money from the salary of such a father directly to the maintenance beneficiary. This is nothing new or unusual. The previous Maintenance Act of 1963 also provided for these. However, when the 1963 Maintenance Act was revisited and, in fact, rewritten in 1998, this concept was broadened in order to ensure that it is used to its full potential, and takes into account changed circumstances of social realities.

One of these social realities is that a large number of persons against whom maintenance orders are made nowadays are not employees in the strict sense of the word, but are self-employed and receive money on a regular basis from other sources. Examples of these abound: investments which are paid to persons on a regular basis, pensions which are paid out to pensioners each month, moneys which are paid to persons out of trust funds and so the list goes on.

Recognising these changed circumstances and social realities, this Parliament in 1998 gave life to section 16(2) in its present form. Any person who has a contractual obligation to pay money to a person on a regular basis can be directed by the maintenance court to pay all or part of the money to a maintenance beneficiary on behalf of the person against whom the maintenance order has been made. There is, however, a condition to this power. Before making such a maintenance order, the maintenance court must ensure that it is practicable to do so.

Why do we need to amend this laudable provision? The answer can be found in the judgment of a high court in the case of the State vs Botha. In this case when the Government Employees Pension Fund was directed by the maintenance court to pay maintenance on behalf of Mr Botha who received a pension from that pension fund, the fund argued in the court that it could not give effect to this on the strength of the provision in the Government Employees Pensions Law of 1996, which prohibits the assignments, transfer or cession of any pension benefits.

Because of the uncertainty surrounding the application of this section, as is evidenced from the Botha case, Parliament has seen fit to amend it and to refer specifically to administrators of pension funds in the section itself. In practice, pension funds are the mostly likely targets for these types of maintenance order. The amendment will not only eliminate any legal uncertainty as seems to have cropped up in the Botha case. But it will also focus the attention of judicial officers on the fact that pension funds can be put to use in this way, namely for the benefit of the maintenance beneficiaries, most of whom are children.

I intend talking about two amendments contained in the Bill, both which are proposed subsections to our Criminal Procedure Act of 1977. The first amendment provides the complainant in a criminal case, or let’s say the victim in a criminal case, with the right to have a say when it becomes to a decision by a parole board on whether to let the accused person in that case go out on parole or be placed under correctional supervision.

In 1997, Parliament enacted the Parole and Correctional Supervision Amendment Act. This Act inserted a new section 64C in the Correctional Services Act of 1959, which, in many respects, is the same as the provision I am talking about. However, this section 64C was, however, never implemented, because around the same time, the new Correctional Services Act of 1998 was in the process of being drafted. During this process, it was felt that a provision of this nature fits better in the Criminal Procedure Act.

There are a few aspects of this clause which I think deserve special mention. In the first place, victims of crime should be at court if and when sentence is handed down to an accused person. This is because the clause requires a court, when sentencing an accused person, to inform any victim if he or she is present, that he or she has a right to make presentations whenever placement of the prisoner on parole, on day parole or other correctional supervision is considered; or to attend any relevant meeting of the parole board. It is also important to note that this right only exist in respect of certain serious offences, particularly those which could have a very personal effect on a victim or a relative of a victim; such as murder, rape, robbery, assault of a sexual nature and kidnapping.

While this right has been given to victims of crime, the clause also places certain duties on them which must be complied with. They must inform the Commissioner of Correctional Services in writing that they wish to exercise this right. They must provide the commissioner with their physical and postal address. This clause represents a step in the right direction as far as victims of crime are concerned. I sincerely hope that the public becomes aware of it and uses it to its fullest potential.

The second clause I wish to highlight places a duty on the National Director of Public Prosecutions to have a report tabled in Parliament twice every year. This report must contain prescribed particulars of accused persons whose trials have not commenced, and who have been in custody for certain periods of time.

These periods of time differ depending on the court where the trial is to be conducted. If the case is to be conducted in a High Court, the NDPP must provide particulars if the accused person has been in custody for a period longer than 18 months and his or her trial has not yet commenced. In the case of the regional court the period is 12 months, and in the case of a district court the period is six months.

The question may be asked: Why is this necessary? The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on its oversight visit to the courts has come across quite a few cases of accused persons who have been in custody for lengthy periods without their trials beginning.

Consequently, the committee thought it wise to create a management tool to monitor this, not only will a mechanism of this nature contribute to speedier trials - for the want of a better word - but it could even go some way in addressing our problems of prison overcrowding.

If this mechanism is perceived to be bending over backwards in favour of accused persons only, let me dispel that perception. It will be of great benefit to the criminal justice system ensuring that criminal trials take place as soon as possible after arrest, when witnesses are available and when their memories are still fresh about the events. Ndo livhuwa. [I thank you.]

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms C B JOHNSON: Madam Deputy Speaker, before I start, the chairperson referred to possible replacements, may I just say to the chair that we definitely don’t want to replace him. What we will be replacing is his favourite green jersey with the hole in the elbow by buying him a new one for Christmas. [Laughter.]

The Bill before us aims to put together in one Bill a number of amendments to various laws. The Bill in fact proposes amendments to a total of some 16 existing laws. There seems to be a perception that because Judicial Matters Amendment Bills, in general, are seldom overly controversial that its provisions are purely technical in nature or purely administrative.

But if one looks closely at this Bill it becomes clear that, although many of the provisions are purely technical, there are also many provisions which, once passed, will have a significant impact on the day to day lives of people, and the way the public experience our courts and the criminal justice system as a whole.

Dit is juis hierdie klousules wat ‘n direkte invloed op mense se lewe gaan hê, en waarby ek ‘n oomblik wil stilstaan. Baie van hierdie klousules sal die hofproses aansienlik meer stroomlyn maak, en beter dienslewering aan die publiek verseker. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[It is on these very clauses, which will have a direct impact on people’s lives, that I would like to pause for a moment. Many of these clauses will streamline the court process significantly, and ensure better service delivery to the public.]

In this regard, I specifically wish to refer to the clauses which extends the current role of the family advocate. At present, the family advocate makes recommendations to the court on any matter concerning the welfare of children in divorce proceedings. The amendment proposed will extend the current function of the family advocate to maintenance enquiries as well. This will greatly assist complainants in maintenance matters.

Similarly, the amendment proposed also extends the role of the Family Advocate to domestic violence matters. This is absolutely crucial, because it ensures greater assistance and greater protection to victims of family violence.

The Bill further amends both the Divorce Act and the Maintenance Act to allow a court, when granting a divorce, to make an order that any part of a pension interest which is due to another party be paid to such party. However, the clause which is, in the view of the New NP, the most important one is clause 6 of the Bill.

Clause 6 inserts a new provision into the Criminal Procedure Act which provides that when a court sentences a person to imprisonment for murder, robbery, rape, armed robbery, sexual assault or kidnapping, the victim of the crime, or in the case of murder, a family member of the victim of the crime, has the right to appear before the parole board and will have a say and will have the right to make representations before the parole board should parole be considered for a prisoner.

Die persepsie bestaan by die publiek dat die regte van slagoffers van geweld minder belangrik is as die regte van misdadigers, en daarom is hierdie klousule van wesenlike belang. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The perception exists among the public that the rights of victims of violence are less important that the rights of criminals, therefore this clause is of essential importance.]

It is important because this clause gives a voice to victims of crime. It gives a victim of crime the right to have a say and the right to be heard. It gives a direct input into the criminal justice system. The New NP believes that by inserting this clause, Government is showing that it hears of the voice for victims of crime. This Bill directly affects people’s lives and does what all legislation do, namely to make people lives better by giving greater legal protection and improved access to justice.

Unlike the DA, the New NP does not think that the fair administration of justice is merely a pipe dream. We believe it can be a reality. Bills like these make the system better. Therefore, we support the Bill. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Madam Deputy Speaker, whilst there are various provisions contained in the Bill - in fact all the provisions that we support - but due to time constraints I will only focus on certain aspects thereof.

The ACDP firstly supports these complex provisions relating to the Amendments to Section 35b of the Insolvency Act, regulating agreements, providing for the termination of netting of certain unperformed obligations and obligations in respects of assets. It is a very complex set of clauses which, after a while, we managed to get our mind around and we are thus fully supportive of that. We are really supportive of the amendment to Section 60 of the Criminal Procedure Act, providing for the pre-trial services report that should be taken into account. During our visit to the Port Elizabeth Courts, we found this very effective cutting down on lengthy bail hearings and allowing for courts to get on with the true criminal trial matters.

The ACDP also has consistently supported a victim-centered restorative justice approach. We therefore also support the insertion of the new provision in the Criminal Procedure Act which imposes a duty on our courts at sentencing stage to inform the complainant or the relative of a complainant in serious crime, murder cases of the right to make representations to a parole board, when the parole of the prisoner is considered. This we in the ACDP we believe is a very important addition to involve victims of crime to a greater degree in particularly the parole process.

We also support the amendments to provide for the National Director of Public Prosecutions to submit a report to Parliament and to the Minister relating to those awaiting-trial prisoners in custody whose trial has no yet commenced. I also sit on the Correctional Services Portfolio Committee and we are all aware of the great difficulties that we are faced with awaiting-trial prisoners and we trust that this clause will assist in monitoring and reducing the number of awaiting-trial prisoners, and will have a knock-on, positive effect on overcrowded conditions in prisons.

In conclusion, therefore, the ACDP will support this Bill.

Mr M T MASUTHA: Deputy Speaker, hon members, before I proceed with my speech let me express my appreciation to the DA for supporting this measure, which is aimed at bringing improvement into our criminal justice system. It is unfortunate, however, that they do not demonstrate the same measure of enthusiasm when it comes to social policies that are aimed at improving the living conditions of the majority of our people, especially the poor. I think the outcome of the elections will demonstrate that.

The Bill before us, is one which in typical Afrikaans tradition could be called a ``potjiekos’’, because it contains a bit of everything in justice legislation that needs to be fixed but that does not justify the introduction of a separate Bill to do so. In my input to this debate I will concentrate mainly on two areas, namely improvements on the law relating to the criminal procedure and re-enforcement of the measures designed to enhance access to information under the Promotion of Access to Information Act.

Starting with the Criminal Procedure Act, allow me to commence by stating that as the law on bail which is contained in Section 60 of that Act currently stands:

an accused who is in detention is entitled to be released on bail at any stage before his or her conviction, if the court is satisfied that to grant such bail will be in the interest of justice.

To establish this the court may require, as provided for under the section I have just referred to, relevant information to enable it to make an appropriate order in this regard. The Bill before us seeks to amend Section 60 by the addition of subsection 29(a) so as to compel the courts before reaching a decision on any bail application to take a pre-trial services report into account - if it is available - so as to ensure that it arrives at the best possible decision in this regard.

As we all that know sentencing is not merely intended as punishment for offences committed. But even more importantly it is a tool to restore the imbalance that has occurred in society as a result of the commission of an offence and serves as an opportunity to rehabilitate an offender, whilst giving him or her the opportunity to improve on his or her social behaviour. In this context correctional supervisions serve in certain instances as the most appropriate sentence particularly with regard to less serious offences, provided for in the law as it currently stands.

Despite authoritative ruling by the Supreme Court of Appeal confirming that such sentencing is competent in the case of statutory offences and not only in common law offences. There has been mixed responses in the High Courts to this issue thus resulting in legal uncertainties. Some High Courts have excluded correctional supervision as a competence sentencing option, where the relevant statute that establishes the offence does not expressly provide for such a sentencing option.

An amendment is therefore introduced under clause 5 of the Bill before us, to remove this legal uncertainty by expressly providing for this sentencing option in respect of all of offences, except in the case of serious offences where the provisions regarding minimum sentences under the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1997 apply.

Clause 6 introduces a new measure into a Criminal Procedure Act aimed at enhancing the rights of victims of serious offences in matters relating to the early release of convicted offenders on parole. In this regard a new duty is imposed on the courts during sentencing to inform the complainant or his or her relatives in the case of offences such as murder, rape, robbery or kidnapping of his or her right to make representations to a parole board when the application for parole by the prisoner is considered.

Lastly in relation to the amendment of the Criminal Procedure Act, Clause 7 of the Bill is a response to the concern which Parliament has expressed on numerous occasions regarding the long periods of detention accused persons often experience, before their trial commences; due to a clogging in the Criminal Justice System.

This clause requires the National Director of Public Prosecutions, in January and July annually, to submit a report to the Minister of Justice who in turn must table such a report in Parliament. Such a report must provide the particulars of awaiting-trial accused whose trials has no yet commenced; where such accused have been in custody for a continuous period from the date of arrest of not more than 18, 12 and 6 months; and if the trial will take place in the High Court, regional Court or magistrate courts respectively. This measure will enable Parliament to monitor this situation so as to assess whether any measures could be taken to improve on this. Turning to the amendment to the Promotion to the Access to Information Act of 2000, which imposes a duty of providing access to information as required by our Constitution, allow me to start by alluding to the fact that it is trite law that there is no offence without a legal provision for it: Nullum crimen sine lege. Nor is there a penalty without a legal sanction for it: Sine lege nulla poena.

It has been brought to the attention of the committee that those charged with the responsibility of complying with the Act, that is the Access to Information Act, often choose to blatantly ignore their obligations under the law. The Act as it stands does not impose any sanctions on any private or public bodies for failing to produce a manual as required under the Act, which is necessary to assist those who wish to access information in terms of that Act.

The Act is therefore being amended to provide that an information officer is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine or to imprisonment for a maximum of two years, if he or she wailfully, or through gross negligence, fails to comply with the Act in this regard. A similar sanction is imposed on a head of a private body who is similarly responsible in the private sphere context. [Applause.]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, this Bill serves to amend a variety of Bills that are administered by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. The Minority Front has no objection to this and finds it much rather accommodating in terms of time and instead of having to see to these straightforward changes individually.

With reference to the amendments made in this Bill to the Criminal Procedure Act of 1997 the Minority Front feels that the compellation upon courts to view pre-trial services reports to assist the court’s decision on releasing a person on bail would be beneficial and ensure fairness. Further amendments regarding the use of correctional supervision as a sentencing option in respect of statutory offences is supported.

Over the years we have had many claims against attorneys as a direct result of a lack of management and administrative skills. The Minority Front feels that the proposed legal practice management course would certainly assist to deal with this but that it should not only be incumbent upon newly appointed attorneys but to all attorneys.

Amendments made in the light of divorcees and the sharing of pension and interest accumulated on that interest is found to be fair and supported by the Minority Front. Amendments made to accord the Board of Sheriffs with its national status is well-deserved and should be speedily inculcated.

The extension of the role of the family advocates regarding maintenance and domestic violence is felt to be beneficial to instituting our justice system more effectively.

The Minority Front is especially supportive of amendments regarding maintenance and action taken against persons failing to make these payments. No objection is given on the extension date for the South African Human Rights Commission in its duties regarding the translation of documents, pending circumstances but requests that these be done in an effective timeframe.

Lastly amendments regarding the pensions of judges within the speculated timeframe to retired judges or the spouses of such judges is found reasonable and supported. The Minority Front support the Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill.

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, thanks very much. I really am rising to thank the hon members for the support they have lent to this Bill which have been adjudged by all speakers and in turn by all of us to be a very important Bill. So thanks very much hon members.

However, it becomes unavoidable to respond to two remarks made by the speaker on behalf of the DA, namely the hon Sheila Camerer. Firstly, I just want to state that, for the erudition of members, the training that is given to judicial officers, as well as prosecutors, is not only longer than it was under apartheid, but it’s also now much more comprehensive in this programme. It encompasses a whole lot of very interesting things, including, for instance, gender and race sensitivity. So, it’s much more comprehensive.

And secondly, the hon member refers to affirmative action appointments. I know of no affirmative action appointments in my four and a half years experience as Minister responsible for the administration of justice. I had the pleasure of studying the reports of the magistrate’s commission and their recommendations before making the appointment. Essentially it is a formality.

It never occurred to me that there are some people who by nature of their race or gender, or both, were evidence of paced affirmative action appointments. I am saying this, hon members, because you see we have to know the facts. No person, for instance, has been appointed as a magistrate in this country, at least not since I took over - I don’t know about during the terms of previous Ministers, including my colleague Dullah Omar - for affirmative action reasons. They are all duly qualified. They have all the necessary qualifications.

If you take for instance the regional court, there is not a single person who becomes a magistrate there without a LLB, and it’s a South African LLB that is available to all who want to take it, at all universities. Black, white, male and female take it. Now the danger in this sort of argument that we are making hasty affirmative action appointments is this one that you see hidden in the averment is real and deeply embedded racism. That is the problem. What if indeed the weakness that you have identified, hon member, exhibits itself in a white person who in the past automatically qualified for these positions and therefore is not an element of hasty affirmative action. But the same problem when it exhibits itself in a woman or a black, or both, you say there you are, affirmative action is a problem. Affirmative action is a matter of must in this country, unless of course we are told that we should not touch things. We should leave them as they are. For how long, we don’t know. We don’t make any affirmative action appointments to the judiciary. We don’t.

All the people who have been appointed to the judiciary have gone through the normal processes at being considered for appointment. We don’t say this is a black and regardless of the fact that he or she is unqualified, we shall appoint them. We don’t do that. Precisely, Chairperson, because we bear in mind, at all times - I hope we all do it - the best interest of the judiciary and the best interest of this country. So it is completely untrue that we make any hasty affirmative action appointments. We don’t.

We look at the person’s suitability. No doubt of course, none of us has ever pretended to be anything near a god. We may make mistakes and then we discover these mistakes after the person has been appointed. And it’s got nothing to do with affirmative action. Some of these weaknesses exhibit themselves in squeaky white people. No affirmative action was applied prior to that at all if you follow the logic of the hon member. So, I want to say please, let us not seek to dress our deeply embedded racism in the garb of affirmative action. I thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That concludes the debate on the Bill. Are there any objections to the Bill being read a second time? No objections. Agreed to. The secretary will read the Bill a second time.

Bill read a second time.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: The Bill will be sent to the National Council of Provinces for concurrence. CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: As there is no list of speakers, are there any objections to the Bill being agreed to? No objections. Agreed to. The Bill will be sent to the President for assent. The next six items on the Order Paper are requests for the approval by Parliament of certain international conventions and protocols in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution. By agreement the Orders will be debated together and at the end of the debate the House will consider each instrument separately.

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST TRANSNATIONAL ORGANISED CRIME PROTOCOL AGAINST THE SMUGGLING OF MIGRANTS BY LAND, SEA AND AIR PROTOCOL TO PREVENT, SUPPRESS AND PUNISH TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN PROTOCOL AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, THEIR PARTS AND COMPONENTS AND AMMUNITION PROTOCOL ON SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY (SADC) TRIBUNAL AGREEMENT AMENDING THE PROTOCOL ON SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY (SADC) TRIBUNAL

Mr G SOLOMON: Chairperson, the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children; the Protocol against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Sea and Air and the Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition are supplements to the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime. Transnational organised crime and its increase are of serious concern, not only to the international community as a whole, but to South Africa in particular.

In a way the increase of transnational crime is an inevitable curse of economic globalisation. It seems that it is related to the proliferation of free trade agreements and free trade zones in the world resulting in the great rise in the transnational flow of goods and services throughout the globe. There was a greater chance then for grey, illegal or contraband goods to slip through. When there is an enormous increase in passenger volume on international commercial flights, there is a greater chance of persons of ill-intent to slip into countries. Major currencies, such as the dollar, Deutschmark and yen are nearly universally exchangeable, smoothing the transition from illicit profit in one part of the world to apparently legitimate investment elsewhere in a different currency. The easy, fast and efficient electronic money transfers daily also contribute enormously to transnational crime. It is estimated that in one New York-based bank network alone, more than US$ 2 billion race through digital channels each minute.

Experts estimate that half of the industrialised world’s stock of money resides in or passes through tax havens. Increasing illegal migration and the hostility and economic hardships which migrants often face in new homelands create fertile grounds for cohesive, hard to penetrate crime networks spanning many borders. Indeed transnational organised crime is certainly a serious concern. It is underpinned by the profits of the drug trade, trafficking in women and children and illicit arms and ammunition. Organised crime generates enormous financial profits thereby enabling criminal organisations to penetrate, contaminate or corrupt the structures of legitimate commercial and financial business as well as structures of government.

Indeed, the most serious effects of all this is the destruction of the social fabric of communities leaving families and particularly children at the mercy of criminals. South Africa not only has a duty towards the international community, but also towards SADC and the AU in order to stem the tide of transnational organised crime by acceding to the measures, protocols and international agreements.

The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development was represented at all the meetings regarding the drafting of the convention and the protocols and played a major role where money laundering issues were concerned.

The Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition was signed by South Africa on 14 October 2002. On 14 December 2002 the Republic of South Africa signed the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime and the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children and the Protocol against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Sea and Air.

The convention established four specific crimes. Article 5 makes participating in organised criminal groups a specific crime. Article 6 deals with money laundering. Article 8 deals with corruption. Article 23 deals with obstruction of justice.

How ready is South Africa for this? A number of pieces of legislation in South Africa do conform to the protocols in this convention. The Prevention of Organised Crime Act of 1998 criminalises organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities. It also provides for the confiscation of proceeds of crime.

The Financial Intelligence Centre Act of 2001 aims at combating money laundering, in particular the reporting of suspicious transactions.

The Corruption Act of 1992, the Public Protector Act of 1994 and the Public Finance Management Act of 1999 deal with corruption, especially in the public sector. The Bill presently before the committee, the Prevention of Corruption Bill, deals comprehensively with crimes of corruption.

As far as the protocols are concerned: Article 5 of protocol 1, trafficking in persons, especially women and children, criminalises trafficking in persons. Currently South Africa has no specific legislation to cover this crime.

Article 6 of the protocol on the smuggling of migrants criminalises this activity. There is currently no specific legislation. The responsible departments are Home Affairs, Transport, Safety and Security.

The protocol on illicit firearms - South Africa is compliant with the protocol.

What are the implications for South Africa regarding these conventions and protocols? There are no constitutional implications. The Chief State Law Adviser has advised that there appears to be no conflict with domestic or international law.

There are also no organisational and personal implications, since the interdepartmental committee has a mandate to facilitate the ratification of conventions and protocols and to develop legislation.

There are some financial implications. The costing of new legislation will be done by the relevant departments.

In conclusion, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the United Nations Convention against transnational organised crime and the three supplementing protocols referred to it, recommends that the House approves the Convention and supplementary protocols in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution with reservation.

The Republic of South Africa does not recognise the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court of Justice. Therefore, pending a decision by the Government on the matter, the committee also recommends that the Republic does not consider itself bound by those articles pertaining to compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in the convention and the respective protocols.

The Protocol on the Southern African Development Community Tribunal and the Agreement amending the Protocol on the Southern African Development Community Tribunal must be seen in the context of the ANC Government’s policy and programme towards building a stable, secure and viable Southern African Development Community linked to the African Union and its socioeconomic programme Nepad, the New Partnership for Africa’s Development.

The process of building a regionally secure and economically viable community in Southern Africa is of profound interest and importance to the ANC. It requires encouraging processes that can overcome some of the constraints such as power instability, military conflicts, political fragmentation and economic imbalances. Some of the challenges are presently successfully negotiated and resolved by the ANC Government.

Now for the protocols before us. The treaty governing the SADC agreement that regulates it, establishes a number of supranational institutions such as the Summit of Heads of States, the Council of Ministers, special commissions, standing committees. The Secretariat and, as far as these protocols are concerned, Article 9 establishes a tribunal related to its activity and settle disputes between members and member states.

The protocol, which constitutes the tribunal, was signed by the SADC heads of state, including South Africa, at their summit in Windhoek, Namibia, on 7 August 2000. The tribunal shall consist of not less than 10 members who possess the qualifications required for appointment to the highest judicial offices in their respective states, and who are jurists of recognised competence. Articles 3 to 9 deal with the nomination, appointment, tenure of office and other related matters pertaining to these persons.

Articles 10 to 15 deal with the seat of the tribunal and its jurisdiction. Article 16(1) deals with the function of the tribunal to ensure adherence to the SADC treaty and subsidiary instruments, and to adjudicate upon such disputes as may be referred to it. So, you should now have some idea of what this is all about; what we have to approve today. Firstly, the Protocol on the Tribunal in the Southern African Development Community; secondly, the agreement amending the Protocol on the Tribunal in the Southern African Development Community.

The amendments in the agreement are of a technical nature, mainly to delete the words states'' andstate’’ in a number of articles and replacing them with member states'' and member state’’ respectively. The amendments were agreed upon and duly witnessed and signed by the heads of state and authorised government designates, including our President Thabo Mbeki, at Luanda on 3 October 2003.

What about the implications for South Africa? Constitutional implications? None. The state law advisers indicated that no provision of the protocol is in conflict with the domestic law of South Africa and international law respectively. Personal implications? Yes. South African judges who wish to serve on the tribunal full-time have to vacate their offices. Therefore, the implication would be the replacement of such judges or judicial officers. Financial implications? None. The tribunal will be funded from the regular budget of the SADC community.

In conclusion, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Protocol on the Tribunal in the Southern African Development Community and the agreement amending the Protocol on the Tribunal in the Southern African Development Community referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(1) of the Constitution, approve the said protocols. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mrs S M CAMERER: Chairperson, the DA has pleasure in supporting the ratification by South Africa of the UN Convention against Transnational Organised Crime, subject to the reservation, and the various supplementary protocols listed on the Order Paper. But we particularly wish to highlight our support for the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children.

The purpose of the protocol is defined in its title, but it also aims to assist victims of such trafficking. The most important provision is article 5 which requires state parties to adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish such trafficking as a criminal offence, or offences, in the country concerned.

At present these offences do not exist per se in our law. The South African Police Services has for some time indicated that in order to assist them in combating trafficking in women and children successfully, there needs to be a specific criminal offence in our law.

And it was for this reason that I put forward in April, as a Private Members’ Bill, an amendment to the Child Care Act, to criminalise trafficking in children.

We in the DA believe that we should at the very least do something about the most vulnerable members of our society. In motivating that Bill to Madam Speaker, I argued that trafficking in human beings for sexual or other exploitation is an abhorrent modern day form of slavery and that there is ample evidence that this phenomenon is one of the fastest growing areas of international criminal activity.

Those trafficked are mostly women and children. Research conducted by the United Nations, Molo Songololo and other bodies, indicates that trafficking in women and children for sexual and other purposes, is on the increase in South Africa.

Furthermore, the country is increasingly becoming an established destination and transit point for international trafficking in women and children. Evidence that this trade is often linked to illegal trade in drugs and weapons, is there.

Children in South Africa have the constitutional guaranteed right to be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation. And Parliament has the obligation, rooted in the Constitution, to adopt legislative measures to protect that right. Existing legislation does not provide children with adequate protection against the evil of trafficking and, in fact, does not specifically prohibit trafficking.

The South African Law Commission recently looked at the problem of trafficking and in its Discussion Paper 103 on the Review of the Child Care Act Project, it recommended that a provision prohibiting trafficking of children be included in the new comprehensive children statute.

Now, the new Children’s Bill has just been tabled in Parliament. However, in the absence of it at the time, I proposed this legislative provision that in the meantime the Child Care Act be amended for the necessary protection to children.

I am glad to say that the Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals agreed that an amendment to the law to outlaw trafficking in children was desirable, but also suggested that the protection should be extended to women, with which I heartily agreed.

When the Sexual Offences Bill came before the Portfolio Committee on Justice shortly afterwards, I suggested, in the course of the initial briefings, that this would be an appropriate legislative vehicle to include a provision specifically outlawing and criminalising trafficking in women and children for sexual exploitation. While the chair of the committee, Johnny de Lange, agreed in principle, for which I thank him, that this should be considered, no draft provision has of yet been submitted to the committee. However, I trust that it will soon be.

The Sexual Offences Bill would appear to be the appropriate vehicle with which to comply with our international obligations under this protocol.

Accordingly, on behalf of the DA, I would like to urge the Minister of Justice and the Chair of the Justice Portfolio Committee and the ANC justice study group to ensure that a specific provision, criminalising trafficking in women and children for sexual and other exploitation, be included in the Sexual Offences Bill, and that we pass the Bill with the minimum of delay. We need to give notice to human traffickers that their game is up. Thank you, Chair.

Mr T E VEZI: Chairperson, I will try to be as brief as possible. The purpose of the convention is to promote co-operation, and to prevent and combat transnational organised crime more effectively. The convention establishes as offence four specific crimes, namely the participation in organised criminal groups, money-laundering, corruption and the obstruction of justice. Article 5 requires state parties to enact legislation which makes these activities domestic offences, if they are not already offences.

The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament regarding the protocol against the smuggling of migrants by land, sea and air, recommends that the House approves the said protocol in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, and approves that the Director-General of the Department of Transport be designated as an authority to receive and respond to requests for assistance. The director-general will be complemented by the SA Maritime Safety Authority, the Department of Home Affairs, SAPS and SANDF. If evidence of smuggling is found, the flag state may authorise the requesting state to board and search a vessel. The portfolio committee also considered the request for approval by Parliament of the protocol to prevent, suppress and punish trafficking in persons, especially women and children. In line with the previous position, when ratifying United Nations multilateral treaties the Republic of South Africa enters reservation against the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice.

The protocol makes provision for the protection and assistance of victims. The state should co-operate to the fullest extent to prevent and suppress smuggling of persons. Regarding provision for the protection and assistance of such victims, migrants shall not become liable for criminal prosecution if they adhere to the principles of this Act.

On the Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime, article 7 states that states parties shall ensure maintenance for not less than 10 years of information in relation to firearms, where feasible, their parts, components and ammunition. Article 10 requires a state party to establish and maintain an effective system of export and import licensing. The National Commissioner for the SAPS is identified as the point of contact in terms of article 13.

The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development also considered the request for approval by Parliament of the agreement amending the protocol and the tribunal in the Southern African Development Community. Without boring the House with further ado, the IFP supports this protocol. Thank you.

Ms C JOHNSON: Chairperson, the New NP supports the request for approval by Parliament of the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime, as well as the three protocols flowing therefrom, save for the reservations pertaining to the issue of compulsory jurisdiction. It also supports the approval of the protocol on the SADC tribunal and the agreement thereto.

The purpose of the UN convention is to promote co-operation between state parties in order to prevent and combat transnational crime more efficiently. The first two protocols to the UN convention are aimed at preventing and combating trafficking in women and children as well as preventing the smuggling of migrants. It is on these two protocols that supplement the convention that we wish to focus.

With regard to the trafficking of women and children, reports by the SA Police Service have shown that there is an increasing number of women and children being brought to South Africa, particularly from Asia and Eastern Europe. Many of these women are the victims of trafficking and commercial sexual exploitation.

Recent reports by the SA police indicate that there may be as many as 38 000 cases of child prostitution annually, and there is further evidence that trafficking is one of the fastest growing areas of international criminal activity.

Research done by NGOs shows that trafficking in children in South Africa is increasing annually. There are warnings that child trafficking has, in fact, become the third largest profit-making criminal enterprise after drug and gunrunning. It earns billions of dollars every year and the problem is further exacerbated by high levels of poverty.

Research done in March this year found that South Africa is the main destination for sex trade in the region, with both local and organised, and internationally organised crime groups involved. Those trafficked to South Africa are mainly from Lesotho, Mozambique, Malawi, Thailand, China and Eastern Europe.

The study which was conducted by the International Organisation for Migration between August 2002 and February 2003 found that international trafficking, especially for sex workers, is much more pervasive in Southern Africa than was initially thought. The report held, and I quote:

Assistance to these victims is desperately needed, as well as the awareness and training of officials to deal with this crime.

It continues to say, and I quote:

… legislation in the region generally fails to criminalise trafficking or to adequately protect victims and calls for the ratification of international conventions that mandate governments to take urgent steps to curb the trade.

The New NP, therefore, believes that the approval of these protocols and the UN convention from which they flow will curb the trade and are thus imperative. Thank you.

Mr S N SWART: Chairman, the ACDP supports all measures in the fight against the scourge of crime - particularly of a transnational organised nature and, therefore, supports the ratification of this UN convention and protocols.

In the limited time available, I would like to focus on article 25 that requires states parties to take appropriate measures within their means to provide assistance and protection to victims covered by the convention. The paragraph states that parties should establish procedures to provide access to compensation and restitution for victims of offences covered by this convention.

Opinions were sought regarding the financial implications in respect of this article. The state law adviser advised that the provisions do not envisage that state parties must establish a compensation fund for victims. The ACDP supports, as I mentioned in the earlier debate, a restorative justice approach whereby victims of crime are compensated, particularly in the case of property crimes. We, therefore, welcome the signing of these protocols. But, we would like to see the establishment of a crime victims’ fund, particularly for those cases where the criminal is unable to make restitution to the victim. I thank you.

Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson …

Hon MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Praise!]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of the women!]

Chairperson, I think that these international protocols and agreements are long overdue. Arising from the protocols that are on the list, you could see how important they are.

The United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime will assist us domestically as well as build greater global relations as a united force. Agreement on the measures to fight the smuggling of migrants is also supported and found necessary. The protocol to prevent, suppress and punish trafficking in persons, especially women and children is earnestly approved in order to denounce this human abuse and preserve human rights.

Further, the protocol against the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking of firearms and associated gadgets is welcomed for it fulfils a desperate need. If we can get a greater hold on this market we may actively reduce the killings and violence that these industries survive on.

Lastly, the protocol on SADC and amendments to it are supported by the MF in the hope that it will bring benefits to our state and the wellbeing of our citizenry. The MF supports these international agreements. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime approved.

Protocol against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Sea and Air, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime approved.

Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime approved.

Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organised Crime approved.

Protocol on Southern African Development Community (SADC) Tribunal approved. Agreement amending the Protocol on Southern African Development Community (SADC) Tribunal approved.

CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND  CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROTOCOL AGAINST THE SMUGGLING OF MIGRANTS BY    LAND, SEA AND AIR, SUPPLEMENTING THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST
                    TRANSNATIONAL ORGANISED CRIME

There was no debate.

Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move:

That the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROTOCOL TO PREVENT, SUPPRESS AND PUNISH   TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN, SUPPLEMENTING THE
   UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST TRANSNATIONAL ORGANISED CRIME

There was no debate.

Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move:

That the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY - STUDY VISIT TO CUBA AND BRAZIL

There was no debate.

Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move:

That the report be noted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly noted.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOUSING - VISIT TO
                            WESTERN CAPE

There was no debate.

Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move:

That the report be noted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly noted.

      CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF JOINT BUDGET COMMITTEE

Mr N M NENE: Mr Chairperson, this is the second report of the Joint Budget Committee since it was established in October last year. Our mandate is to monitor monthly expenditure reports by national departments and reporting to Parliament quarterly as we hereby do.

This report analyses the expenditure trends of the first quarter of the 2003-04 financial year. In our first report, we drew the attention of this House to a number of issues that required this Parliament to take action on. This was reflected in our recommendations and some of those recommendations are repeated in this report as we table it for consideration and adoption today.

This is the first quarter report for this financial year and it is characterised by expenditure trends that reflect transfers of disbursements to institutions that fall under the respective departments. The Department of Education is one example that has to disburse in excess of 50% of its budget by the end of June 2003 to institutions of higher learning.

The Department of Social Development also disbursed the first part of the extension of the child support grant in April, resulting in high expenditure during that month.

In general, the total departmental expenditure reflected a gradual decline from April to June 2003. Eleven departments have consistently spent less than the monthly average throughout the quarter, monthly averages being 9,84% in April, 7,80% in May and 6,75% in June.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Communications, according to the report, are the lowest-spending departments at less than 3% of their budgets during the period under review. The reason given by the Department of Foreign Affairs for this low expenditure is that the bulk of its department’s expenditure takes place abroad, and therefore, there is a time lag of two to three months before the financial reporting. Part of the problem is also attributed to the problems encountered with the basic accounting systems.

The main purpose of this exercise is to hold the departments and the the executive to account. The departments must account for outputs and the executive for the outcomes.

In our recommendations, the call for collaboration between the Joint Budget Committee with sector committees in interrogating the nature and the quality of expenditure is repeated in this report. Even though the Joint Budget Committee is concerned with the expenditure, we still focus on the quality of that spending.

The ANC’s commitment to a better life for all is demonstrated by the type of mechanisms and policies that have been put in place at all levels.

Allow me, Chairperson, to remind MPs across the political spectrum of their responsibility of oversight and ensuring accountability in all departments.

The Public Finance Management Act places a responsibility on departments to report monthly and annually and to set measurable objectives when they table their budgets. These should also be mirrored in their strategic plans during the planning stage.

In order to compare monthly planned expenditure to actual expenditure, the Joint Budget Committee is in the process of obtaining cash flow statements from departments and some departments have already responded positively.

I invite members to take some time to go through the appendixes in this report and to use these as a basis for engaging with departments in the respective portfolio committees in order to evaluate the quality of service delivery.

I present this report to this House and trust that its adoption further affirms our commitment to a better life for all South Africans. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms E THABETHE: Chairperson, finally, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I would like to move for the adoption of this report.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

The House adjourned at 17:28. ____ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Assent by President in respect of Bills:

 (1)    Sectional Titles Amendment Bill [B 43 - 2003] -  Act  No  29  of
     2003 (assented to and signed by President on 11 November 2003);


 (2)    Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B 3 - 2003] - Act No 30 of 2003
     (assented to and signed by President on 7 November 2003);


     NOTE: The name of the Act is the Special Pensions Second  Amendment
     Act, 2003.


 (3)    Unemployment Insurance Amendment Bill [B 35 - 2003] - Act No  32
     of 2003 (assented to and signed by President on 11 November  2003);
     and
 (4)    Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4B - 2003]  -
     Act No 35 of 2003  (assented  to  and  signed  by  President  on  7
     November 2003).

1. Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent:

 (1)    Bills passed by National Assembly on 12 November 2003:


     (i)     Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill [B 57D - 2002]  (National
          Assembly - sec 75).

1. Introduction of Bills:

 (1)    The Minister of Finance:


     (i)     Adjustments Appropriation Bill  [B  69  -  2003]  (National
          Assembly - sec 77)


     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance  of
     the National Assembly, as well as referral  to  the  Joint  Tagging
     Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule  160,  on
     12 November 2003.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

National Assembly:

1. Submission of Private Members’ Legislative Proposals:

 (1)     The  following  private  member's  legislative   proposal   was
     submitted to the Speaker on 11 November 2003,  in  accordance  with
     Rule 234:


     (i)     Electoral Laws Amendment Bill (Mr I J Pretorius)


     In accordance with Rule  235  the  legislative  proposal  has  been
     referred to the Standing Committee on Private Members'  Legislative
     Proposals and Special Petitions by the Speaker.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (a)    Medium Term Budget Policy Statement 2003 [RP 201-2003].


     Referred to the Joint Budget Committee and the Portfolio  Committee
     on Finance for consideration in accordance  with  their  respective
     mandates.


 (b)    Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 69 - 2003].


     Referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Finance  for  consideration
     and report.


 (c)    Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure 2003  [RP  202-2003],
     which includes:


     1.  Memorandum  on  Vote  No  1  -  "The  Presidency",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     2. Memorandum on Vote No 2 - "Parliament",  Adjustments  Estimates,
          2003-2004;


     3. Memorandum  on  Vote  No  3  -  "Foreign  Affairs",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     4.  Memorandum  on  Vote  No  4  -  "Home   Affairs",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     5. Memorandum on Vote No 5 -  "Provincial  and  Local  Government",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     6.  Memorandum  on  Vote  No  6  -  "Public   Works",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     7. Memorandum  on  Vote  No  7  -  "Government  Communications  and
          Information System", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     8. Memorandum on Vote  No  8  -  "National  Treasury",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     9. Memorandum on Vote No  9  -  "Public  Enterprises",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     10.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  10   -   "Public   Service   and
          Administration", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     11.     Memorandum on Vote No 11  -  "Public  Service  Commission",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     12.     Memorandum on  Vote  No  12  -  "South  African  Management
          Development Institute", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     13.     Memorandum on Vote  No  13  -  "Statistics  South  Africa",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     14.     Memorandum on Vote No 14 - "Arts and Culture",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;
     15.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  15  -  "Education",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     16.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  16   -   "Health",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     17.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  17   -   "Labour",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     18.     Memorandum on  Vote  No  18  -  "Science  and  Technology",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     19.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  19   -   "Social   Development",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     20.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  20  -  "Sport  and  Recreation",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     21.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  21  -  "Correctional  Services",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     22.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  22  -   "Defence",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     23.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  23  -  "Independent   Complaints
          Directorate", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     24.     Memorandum on Vote No  24  -  "Justice  and  Constitutional
          Development", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     25.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  25  -  "Safety  and   Security",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     26.     Memorandum on  Vote  No  26  -  "Agriculture",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     27.     Memorandum on Vote No 27  -  "Communications",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     28.     Memorandum on Vote  No  28  -  "Environmental  Affairs  and
          Tourism", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     29.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  29  -   "Housing",   Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     30.     Memorandum on Vote No  30  -  "Land  Affairs",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     31.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  31  -  "Minerals  and   Energy",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     32.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  32  -  "Trade   and   Industry",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;


     33.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  33  -  "Transport",  Adjustments
          Estimates, 2003-2004;


     34.     Memorandum on Vote No 34 - "Water  Affairs  and  Forestry",
          Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004.


     Referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Finance  for  consideration
     and report.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Report and Financial Statements of Technology  for  Women  in  Business
 (TWIB) for 2003.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Report of the South African Law Reform Commission for 2002-2003 [RP 192-
 2003].

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (a)    Report of the Public Service Commission on Best Practice on Risk
     Management Frameworks for the Public Service - April 2003.


 (b)    Letter dated 30 October 2003, from the President of the Republic
     to the Speaker of the National Assembly, informing Members  of  the
     National  Assembly  of  the  resignation  of  Director  of   Public
     Prosecution at Grahamstown:


     Dear Madam Speaker,
     This serves to inform you that Adv T M  Ntsaluba  submitted  to  me
     his  resignation  from  the  position   of   Director   of   Public
     Prosecutions at Grahamstown, which resignation I have accepted.


     I will also communicate Adv Ntsaluba's resignation to  the  Members
     of the National Council of Provinces and wish to request  that  you
     bring the said resignation to the notice of the National Assembly.


     Regards




     Signed
     T M MBEKI

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence on the Armaments Corporation of South Africa, Limited Bill [B 18B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 11 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Defence, having considered the Armaments Corporation of South Africa, Limited Bill [B 18B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 13 October 2003, p 1287), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with an amendment [B 18C - 2003].

 Report to be considered.