THURSDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at: 14:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                     SUSPENSION OF RULE 253 (1)

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move the motion printed on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party as follows:

That Rule 253(1) be suspended for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debate on Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).

Agreed to.

           RACIST ATTACK ON BLACK CHILD AT GOODWOOD SCHOOL

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms V MERUTI (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC, I bring to the attention of this House the racist attack on a black child at Edgemead High School in Goodwood. The mother, daughter and the daughter’s boyfriend assaulted an African female student. Uttering racist remarks, they pulled her hair and excreted on her in full view of fellow pupils.

It is the most disgusting, barbaric act of our times. This is indeed a violation of human rights. Black and white students have a right to attend the school of their choice.

Edgemead High School is one of the most racist schools in Cape Town, and the principal is in cahoots in all these racist incidents. No support has been given to the student by the school after the incident, but fellow students supported her. She even had to go on her own to report the matter to the police.

We welcome the investigation by the education MEC, Andre Gaum, and we call upon the Minister of Education, Prof K Asmal, to intervene.

The ANC calls upon all peace-loving South Africans to unite against racism. We thank all those who have expressed their support to the victim and her family. I thank you. [Applause.]

                   FF MEMBERS CROSSING OVER TO DA

                        (Member's Statement)

Mnr J L THERON (DA): Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, dit is vandag die ``VF Minus’’ en nie die VF Plus nie. Dit is jammer hulle is nie vandag hier nie, want ek sou hulle graag dit wou laat hoor. Die VF Plus is nou minus. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hulle leier, die adjunkleier, die jeugleier en baie van die lede in hulle takke in Limpopo het oorgestap na die DA toe. Hulle wil nie meer regs beweeg na die Konserwatiewe Party toe nie, maar hulle wil saam met die koalisie vir verandering, die DA, die IVP en andere, die magsgreep van die ANC verbreek. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die leier, dr Gerrit Venter, die adjunkleier, Anton Weyers, en die jeugleier, Deon Jewaskiewitz, het vandag oorgestap na die DA toe. Soos voorspel, gaan die binnegevegte tussen die VF en die Konserwatiewe Party nog baie interessante bokspronge veroorsaak. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit raak dus al hoe duideliker dat die VF nie ‘n opsie vir Afrikaners is nie. Afrikaners wil liewer binne die koalisie vir verandering bou aan ‘n beter Suid-Afrika vir al sy mense. Ek dank u. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mr J L THERON (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, today it is the ``FF Minus’’ and not the FF Plus. It is a pity that they are not here today, because I would have liked to have told them so. The FF Plus is now minus. [Interjections.] Their leader, the deputy leader, the youth leader and a lot of members from their branches in Limpopo have crossed over to the DA. They no longer wish to move towards the right, to the Conservative Party, but together with the coalition for change, the DA, the IFP and others, they want to break the stranglehold of the ANC. [Interjections.]

Their leader, Dr Gerrit Venter, deputy leader Anton Weyers and youth leader Deon Jewaskiewitz have crossed over to the DA today. As predicted, the infighting between the FF and the Conservative Party is still going to cause a lot of interesting antics. [Interjections.] It is therefore becoming more and more obvious that the FF is not an option for Afrikaners. Afrikaners would rather build towards a better South Africa for all its people from within the coalition for change. I thank you. [Interjections.]]

                         DEATH OF POLICEMEN

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr E T FERREIRA (IFP): The number of police officers being killed in South Africa just keeps on growing daily. In the latest incident, an off-duty police detective was shot and killed in Khayelitsha in the Western Cape, on Tuesday 11 November. The detective was attending a memorial church service when he received a phone call and went outside, where he was apparently confronted by unknown men who fired shots at him.

We offer our sincerest condolences to the family of the deceased and urge any members of the community with information to assist the police in apprehending the killers who committed this murder. There should be a closer working relationship between the SAPS and members of the communities around the country if we are to win the war against crime.

This tragic and senseless killing brings to 11 the number of police officers killed in the Western Cape alone this year. The number of police officers being killed or shot at around the country is much too high. This is a totally unacceptable situation that seems to be getting out of control. We have to find a way to put a stop to these senseless killings. We cannot allow the criminals to get the upper hand and kill police officers at will.

                   EXPANDED PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAMME

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms N MAHLAWE (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ANC wishes to express its sense of great pleasure at the news that Government is about to implement the Expanded Public Works Programme. The urgency with which this task is being undertaken is a clear demonstration of the ANC-led Government’s commitment to pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

This nationwide programme will contribute positively to the lives of many of our people. It will draw significant numbers of the unemployed into productive work where they will gain skills while being gainfully employed and improve their capacity to earn an income once they leave the programme. In that way, the programme will also reduce the numbers of those who are dependent on social grants for their livelihood by creating the opportunity for them to engage in productive and gainful work, thus helping to restore the human dignity of many of our people and giving meaning to our freedom.

The success of this initiative will contribute to both the building and the strengthening of the people’s contract for a better tomorrow. The undertaking and the practical engagement by Government in this task demonstrate that the ANC-led Government is a government that listens to the people and persistently works to defeat poverty. It further demonstrates the ANC-led Government’s commitment to working with the people and encouraging their involvement in the struggle to change their lives for the better. I thank you.

                    ELECTORAL LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD (New NP): Madam Deputy Speaker, the New NP welcomes the announcement by the hon President that the Government is prepared to make concessions and amend the Electoral Laws Amendment Bill to allow South Africans abroad to vote. When the Bill was debated in Parliament, the New NP submitted a formal amendment to the Bill, specifically proposing that South Africans abroad should be allowed to vote.

This, once again, proves that the DA style of destructive opposition politics is meaningless, while the New NP style of constructive debate shows results and ensures that the voters’ concerns are addressed. The DA is supposedly the Official Opposition, but its input amounts to nothing more than shouting and criticising. What have they achieved so far? Nothing. [Interjections.] The New NP and even other smaller parties are overshadowing the DA when it comes to putting real arguments on the table and getting things done.

The DA has also once again shown their true colours when, in two separate incidents, two DA councillors allegedly referred to the President and to blacks as ``kaffirs’’. The DA has stated that they have launched an internal investigation and will act harshly against members who use that word, but we all know what that means - a gentle rap on the knuckles, or denial.

It is laughable that while the DA is always the first to demand resignations, commissions of inquiry and apologies, and calls for swift action when it concerns other parties, they have a holier-than-thou attitude and turn a blind eye when it concerns their own members. I thank you. [Applause.]

             DEFENCE FORCE BUDGET BELOW ACCEPTABLE NORMS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr A BLAAS (ACDP): Deputy Speaker, in terms of the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement the Minister of Finance has forced the Defence budget to below acceptable norms. This will severely compromise the defence capability of the SA National Defence Force.

An accepted norm for defence budgets for countries similar to South Africa is set at 1,8 to 2% of GDP. At present, the RSA Defence budget sits at 1,6% of the GDP, and is reduced to 1,3% for the year 2006-07.

This will further reduce the capability to service or replace existing obsolete equipment in general and, more specifically, the defence capabilities of landward defences. The Casspirs used for transport in Burundi are an excellent example. Service levels are dangerously low. They are no longer manufactured, and spares are not available. There are not enough to support existing needs. The remaining Casspirs are all we have and are not suitable for deployment in areas with heavy rainfall, as is the case in Burundi. No financial resources are available to do something about this.

We should make the choice to either provide the necessary funds, over and above the direct costs for special missions, or recognise our Defence Force budget limitations and not promise aid where we cannot afford to render it effectively, otherwise the Defence Force and South Africa’s credibility and safety are placed at risk. We need a Defence Force that can do us proud and maintain our capabilities.

CONGRATULATIONS TO PROGRESSIVE YOUTH ALLIANCE ON WINNING TURFLOOP SRC
                              ELECTIONS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr M J MALAHLELA (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, as a convocator of the SA Students’ Congress I take this opportunity to congratulate the Progressive Youth Alliance, constituted by the SA Students’ Congress, the ANC Youth League, the Students’ Union for Christian Action, the YCS and the Student Christian Organisation, on winning the 2003-04 SRC elections held on 23 October 2003 at the University of the North, Turfloop.

We further congratulate this alliance of the progressive youth on having ensured that multitudes of students, the majority of whom are from working- class backgrounds, register as voters for the forthcoming general elections in 2004.

The ANC calls upon all students to continue fighting for the transformation of our education in general, and in particular for curriculum transformation with a special focus on its content and design. This will ensure that the multitudes of our students are enrolled in courses that will help them respond to the dictates of the labour market upon completion of their studies.

We call upon these finest cadres of our society, black in general and African in particular, to apply in their numbers to the National Student Financial Aid Scheme because financial exclusion is a dialect foreign to the ANC. We call upon all of the progressive youth to continue mobilising the young behind the vision of the ANC and, vice versa, for the ANC to mobilise behind the vision of the youth. Hola 7!

              ZIMBABWE CRISIS IGNORED BY ANC GOVERNMENT

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr J P I BLANCHÉ (FA): Madam Speaker, the ANC Government has abandoned ordinary Zimbabweans. Opposition members are attacked and arrested, rape is used as a government weapon, opposition farmers and farmworkers have been forced off the farms, and the land given to Zanu-PF loyalists. Now people are starving while Zanu-PF loyalists and leaders shop in Europe and Johannesburg.

Inflation is out of control, but Mugabe is building himself a luxury mansion. Even our Industrial Development Corporation is advising against investment in Zimbabwe, and still the ANC is silent.

The attacks on the independent Daily News have also been ignored by the ANC. This is why we would like to commend the This Day newspaper for its effort to bring back an independent voice. Today it dropped off copies of the newspaper in Zimbabwe containing articles written by the Daily News reporters.

The DA echoes the call by This Day for the ANC to end its shameful silence on the tragedy currently unfolding in Zimbabwe. Thank you.

         HEFER COMMISSION TURNING INTO THEATRE OF THE ABSURD

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mnr C AUCAMP (NA): Agb Adjunkspeaker, die Hefer-kommissie van ondersoek is besig om te ontaard in ‘n teater van die absurde. In antwoord op die vraag oor waarom hy uitgesluit word uit die opdrag van die Hefer-kommissie en sy verlede oënskynlik nie meer ter sake is nie, het die Minister van Justisie Penuell Maduna gesê dit dien geen doel om in dié stadium op die kwessie te fokus nie, omdat belangriker sake aan die bod is.

Die NA wil met die Minister saamstem, maar die vraag is: waarom dien dit dan ‘n doel om Openbare Vervolger Bulelani Ngcuka se verlede te ondersoek? Of Ngcuka ‘n spioen was of nie is vir die uitvoer van sy verantwoordelike pligte nie ter sprake nie. Indien dit so sou wees, is die NA se kommentaar eenvoudig: ``So what?’’

In dié verband is die kommentaar van oudregter Kriegler van betekenis. Hy wys op 5 November daarop dat kommissies van ondersoek maklik ‘n matjie word waaronder regerings omstrede kwessies doodvee, en hy bevraagteken die wysheid van geregtelike ondersoeke na politieke debatte. Dis klaarblyklik net vir die ANC van belang of Ngcuka ‘n apartheidspioen was of nie.

In dié verband verneem die NA graag by die Minister of die ANC die onkoste van die Hefer-ondersoek gaan dra. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP (NA): Hon Deputy Speaker, the Hefer commission of inquiry is degenerating into a theatre of the absurd. In reply to the question as to why he is being excluded from the brief of the Hefer commission and why his past is apparently not relevant any more, the Minister of Justice Penuell Maduna said that it served no purpose to focus on the matter at this stage, because there are more important matters.

The NA wants to agree with the Minister, but the question is: Why then does it serve a purpose to investigate Public Prosecutor Bulelani Ngcuka’s past? Whether or not Ngcuka was a spy is not relevant to the exercise of his responsibilities and duties. If that were so, the NA’s comment is simply: ``So what?’’

In this regard the comment of former judge Kriegler is of importance. On 5 November he pointed out that commissions of inquiry easily become a carpet under which governments sweep contentious matters, and he questioned the wisdom of judicial inquiries into political debates. It is obviously only important to the ANC whether or not Ngcuka was an apartheid spy.

In this regard the NA would like to ask the Minister whether the ANC is going to bear the cost of the Hefer inquiry. I thank you.]

        WELCOMING OF STATE VISIT TO INDIA BY PRESIDENT MBEKI

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr L T LANDERS (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the House notes and welcomes the state visit paid to India by President Thabo Mbeki, accompanied by a large delegation of Ministers, advisers and businesspeople during the week of 13 October 2003.

This state visit cements the strong ties of friendship and solidarity forged over 100 years between the peoples of South Africa and India. These bonds, sealed in the struggles of our two peoples for freedom and democracy, are best symbolised in the life and work of Mohandas K Gandhi who came to South Africa as a young barrister and left our country as a committed freedom fighter who went on to become the father of India’s independence.

President Mbeki’s state visit to India comes at a time when developing countries of the South are facing new challenges in the international arena, especially with regard to the inequitable international trade regime, the threat of international terrorism, and the growing unilateralism of the most powerful states of the North.

India and South Africa have become important trading partners since 1994, and co-operation between the South African and Indian business communities has increased markedly during the same period. Co-operation in the field of primary health care, education, science, technology and culture was also enhanced by the signing of a number of agreements between our respective governments, and these should help immeasurably as we push back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.]

                  HOUSING DELIVERY IN SA IN CRISIS

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms J A SEMPLE (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, housing delivery in South Africa is in crisis. The ANC claims, in its 10-year review, that it has approved over a million housing subsidies, but it fails to own up as to how many structurally sound houses it has actually delivered.

Government housing projects are rotten with corruption. And, why are ANC councillors getting RDP houses ahead of those who are really in need? On top of that, housing delivery appears to be grinding to a halt. So little is happening that even the portfolio committee has only met once in the past three months, with no more meetings scheduled for this year.

In the Western Cape, the ANC housing Minister admits that her department is in a shambles, which she blames on her New NP predecessor. When asked why she failed to spend 80%, or R337 million, of her budget, she throws up her hands in despair and blames developers. While the ANC elite takes refuge in the leafy suburbs, the number of homeless South Africans continues to rise. [Interjections.]

NEWSPAPERS REPORT CASES OF DA REPRESENTATIVES UTTERING RACIST REMARKS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr M RAMGOBIN (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, newspapers report cases of DA members and the DA’s public representatives uttering remarks referring to people as ``faffirs’’. It is to be condemned that the DA in this day and age accepts and promotes people who behave in this way. We are now in election mode and this sort of behaviour can only lead to dangerous situations.

I would strongly recommend that the DA follow the example of the ANC and fight racism wherever it is found. The DA must sift its representatives more carefully and weed out the racists.

No political party in South Africa should tolerate such views in its ranks any longer. We need to ask the DA why it continues to attract and publicly field people with such racist ideas. Thank you. [Applause.]

                         SAFETY ON OUR ROADS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr J DURAND (New NP): Madam Deputy Speaker, with the series of accidents over the past few weeks involving trucks, Government must prioritise finding alternative transportation methods for heavy-duty hauling, especially with the festive season approaching. Although there are responsible carriers who abide by good practices, and ensure road safety, there are a few rotten apples that cause havoc on our roads, turning these trucks into weapons of mass destruction on wheels.

Overloading, driver fatigue, unroadworthy trucks, and drunken driving are only some of the causes of these accidents, which means that most of these fatal accidents could have been avoided. Higher standards of safety must be developed and enforced by vehicle testing stations.

The traffic department must include overloading spot checks in the Arrive Alive campaign to ensure that trucks comply with the required loads. After an accident or a licence suspension, drivers must be retrained and retested before they are allowed back on our roads. Regulations must be developed which stipulate that all heavy-duty transporters should be painted a reflective colour to ensure visibility at night and in fog.

Overloading does not only cause considerable damage to roads, but also contributes to serious road safety problems. Therefore Government must consider upgrading and expanding the services provided by Spoornet. Heavy- duty and hazardous cargo should be transported by rail.

The New NP would like to pledge its support to the Arrive Alive campaign and hope that this coming festive season will not be overshadowed by the death toll on our roads.

                    PARENTAL CORPORAL PUNISHMENT

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr S N SWART (ACDP): Madam Deputy Speaker, while the number of child abuse cases reported daily in South Africa is appalling, the criminalisation of moderate parental corporal punishment is not the answer. It is significant that the criminalisation of corporal punishment at schools has not solved the problem of physical abuse, with Childline reportedly receiving more reports of assaults than ever before. This, we believe, would be the same situation in the home should moderate corporal parental punishment be abolished.

Whilst there are alternatives to enforcing discipline within the family, there may be times when spanking, as a moderate form of chastisement, is necessary. Incidents of abusive discipline do occur, however, and when they do, guilty parents must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for assault and child abuse.

In line with the ACDP’s Biblical world view, ``Spare the rod and spoil the child’’ the ACDP is opposed to provisions in the South African Law Commission’s draft Children’s Bill that seek to remove the common law defence of reasonable chastisement available to parents, effectively criminalising all forms of parental corporal punishment.

Our concerns have been confirmed by Minister Pahad’s recent statements that a parent does not have the right to spank a child, notwithstanding the removal of this particular clause in the final draft.

Child abuse in any form must be met with the full force of the law; however, there is no doubt about the important role that the God-given right of moderate chastisement of children can play within the family context.

We are also concerned that limited state resources will be used to track down and prosecute parents who moderately chastise their children, rather than convict murderers, hijackers, rapists and those that abuse children. [Applause.]

           SUCCESSFUL VOTER REGISTRATION IN THE FREE STATE

                        (Member's Statement)

Mong L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Hlwaya tsebe o mamele Modula setulo, Foreisetata e boetse ya makatsa bahanyetsi ho latela ka moo bakgethi ba batjha ba ingodisitseng ka teng ka la 8 le 9 Pudungwana monongwaha. Bakgethi ba batjha ba ingodisitseng bekeng bekeng ya ngodiso, ke 173 000. Hona ho bidietsa mohlolo wa dikgetho tsa 2004. Ke sa phetha, poho enngwe feela Foreisetata mme ANC e tla hlola dikgetho. (Translation of Sotho member’s statement follows.)

[Mr L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Open your ears and listen. Chairperson, the Free State has once again surprised the opposition with the number of new voters who registered on 8 and 9 November of this year. The number of new voters who registered during the registration week was 17 000. This shows how surprising the 2004 elections will be. I repeat, there is only one bull in the Free State, and the ANC will win the elections.]

RACISM IN SCHOOLS, ELECTIONS AND CURRICULUM DEVELOPMENT, AND CORPORAL
                             PUNISHMENT

                       (Minister's Responses)

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, there are three bases for intervention. One was from Comrade Meruti, the other from Comrade Malahlela, and one from the ACDP. Could I say in relation to Comrade Meruti, concerning the appalling attack on a young girl at Edgemead, that I have in fact written to the principal. I have drawn attention to two aspects.

First of all, there must be strong opposition, as part of the school policy, against any form of racism and gender discrimination. Secondly, the young girl should have been given immediate assistance. She should have been cherished, provided with assistance, and if she wanted to go to the police station, she ought not have gone alone. She ought to have been accompanied by a teacher. The third point is that there should have been immediate suspension - because this was very visible - of the attacker of this girl.

May I say that Edgemead has fewer than 30% black children. I think that we have to be a little bit careful to describe Edgemead as the most racist school in Cape Town. I think that we have to be very careful in this area, because we are dealing with young people. The Western Cape will have a full investigation. I have asked for a comprehensive reply. We are not going to be satisfied with any covering up on this. I ask members of the House to remember that issues of racism in schools are something we are tackling very carefully under the values in education. Of course it is very important to remember that after 50 years of racism, which is very much part of the fabric of our society, there must be a conscious and deliberate attempt to tackle it.

I ask members of the opposition, in particular, not to criticise the others present who say that racism is a matter that is virtually endemic in parts of our society. It is unusual to say that it is not there, because 10 years after freedom you cannot expect the indoctrination - which permeated all aspects of society - to have been removed.

I join Comrade Meruti in condemning this, and I call upon all South Africans to support the motion that says we must in fact extend our support and sympathy to those who are victims of racial discrimination. I would ask, on the other hand, that we should ensure that we use temperate language and take great care when we deal with issues of this type. Thank you very much on that. As far as Comrade Malahlela is concerned, there are three issues that come up here. Firstly, the elections at the University of the North were held peacefully. Secondly, they were guaranteed to have been fair and free and attested by independent election monitors - which is very important. What happens at other higher education institutions is that when elections come, suddenly extreme proposals are made which the university is not able to meet, and therefore there is tension and sometimes more than tension. I congratulate the University of the North for having this degree of stability.

The third point is the issue of student curriculums and what they face at universities. Obviously universities must look very carefully at the relevance of their curriculum. Relevance of the curriculum, as Mr Malahlela says, responds to the dictates of the labour market. But universities are more than labour market recruiters. The labour market every now and then changes its mind about what kind of recruits it wants. That is why we should follow the Government’s human resource development policy which indicates in which areas there are very urgent needs.

After all, there are third-level institutions that are training large numbers of people in business administration where there are no jobs. They do it largely because we pay their subsidy by head count. We are changing that now, as subsidies will be paid partly on head count and partly on results in order to improve the throughput rate - and the results will be very important.

We are certainly aware of the fact that curriculum development has to take place in higher education. I was aware of that, for example, when I was the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry: Our engineers were taught to build large dams, and large dams were not what was going to be built. What we really wanted were people who knew how to build community water projects. We could not get higher education to respond to that immediately.

Finally, on the national financial aid scheme, as the Minister of Finance said yesterday, this has been one the great success stories in redress. This year we’ll spend nearly a billion rand on providing assistance to very poor Africans, very poor coloureds, very poor Indians and whites too. I have particularly directed the National Student Financial Aid Scheme to look at the position of coloureds, because coloured participation in higher education is as low as it is for Africans - 14%. Schools must go out of their way to understand the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, especially among very poor Afrikaners. That is a Government decision that would address the needs of poor Afrikaners too.

Let me say one thing, though: There is no free ride in this. If students fail their examinations, the grant from the NSFAS will discontinue. However, the important thing I want to remind the House of is that those who get NSFAS grants - and nearly a quarter of a million students have received them since 1994 - do better than those who are privately funded by their own families. So this is a great success story for public power and public good. I am very pleased to say that those who are financially aided by the state - remember this is a subsidy; some of it can be converted into a grant if they do well - do much better than those who are funded by their families. You should clap for that, because I think that is a great success story. [Applause.]

The final point is about children. I don’t think we should build houses without bricks. The Bible says that the first strike in history took place when the Pharaoh asked the builders to build without straw, and the builders went on strike because one can’t make bricks without straw. Now, the hon member is making bricks without straw. It is not Government’s policy to remove the right to reasonable chastisement. That was there in the original draft. When the Bill came up a number of Ministers discussed this, and we felt that it would be inappropriate at this time. Also, the context is always important.

What we did say was that reasonable chastisement very often borders on abuse. A good family, good parents … I grew up in a family of nine; we were poor after the war. None of us was ever struck by our parents, and we were very difficult - we were eight boys. None of us was chastised. So remember that. Of course, there are people who say: ``I was hit by my mother, I was hit by my father, I was hit in school. Look at me, at what kind of bloke I am.’’ Well, that is very suspicious. [Laughter.]

However, can I say therefore that we are not criminalising corporal punishment. What we are saying is that in terms of the Schools Act, upheld by the Constitutional Court, no student at school - and teachers have the right to reasonable chastisement - can be corporally punished. I hope no member of this Parliament is going to be ambiguous about that. The Constitutional Court ruled against the very idea. This was very interesting, because the applicant said that boys could be corporally punished, not girls. They made a distinction between them, because they knew they would lose when it came to the girls. That is why I think it is important that we remember that the transition from home to school is a very small transition, and that corporal punishment, in principle, is not a very good way of bringing up children. Thank you. [Time expired.]

                       MURDER OF POLICE MEMBER

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Madam Speaker, it is a pity that Mr Ferreira has left the House. I wanted to commend him on the observation he made about the murder of one of our police members in Khayelitsha, who was a member in good standing in regard to that community. The deceased was very committed to our programme for the safety and security of our people. He was also committed to the ideals of our democratic dispensation as a leading member of Popcru.

I am happy that the hon member raised this matter, which is a matter that we are investigating very exhaustively. We will leave no stone unturned to ensure that we get those who have committed that dastardly murder.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEE ON IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF LIFE AND STATUS OF WOMEN - PROVINCIAL STUDY TOURS TO MONITOR IMPLEMENTATION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ACT AND MAINTENANCE ACT

Moh M S MAINE: Motlatsa Modulasetilo, Ditona tsa naga, le badirammogo, komiti e e tlhagisitsweng fa godimo mo malobeng e tsere letsholo la go batlisisa gore melao e re e dirileng fano mabapi le tshireletso ya dintwa le dithulano tsa ka fa malapeng le tlhokomelo ya bana gore go diragala jang, le gore mafapha a a tshwanetseng go e tsenya tirisong, a dira jalo.

Letsholo leno le simolotswe ka Moranang 2000 go fitlha jaanong ka kgwedi ya Motsheganong 2003. Maikaelelo magolo ke go bona gore maikano a a tshotsweng ke dinaga ka kokoano ya bomme a gore go fedisiwe ka gotlhe ditshotlo tsotlhe kgatlhanong le bomme, le tshwetso e e tshotsweng, le go gatelelwa ke se se itseng jaaka, Beijing Platform of Action.

Se se re itumedisitseng ke go fitlhela gore re mafapha otlhe a a tshwanetseng go dira tiro e e umakilweng, a na le tshedimosetso e bile a dira ka thata go tsenya melao eno tirisong. Gantsi gatwe mapodisi ga a dire tiro ya ona, mme se re se itemogetseng bogolosegolo kwa Kapa Bokone ke mapodisi a a dirang tiro e e fetang ka moo re neng re lebeletse. Se se raya gore ba tshwanetswe ke tlotlo e kgolo. Bontsi jwa bona le baatlhodi ba dira tiro ka manontlhotlho.

Se re se itemogetseng gape jaaka bokoa jo bo batlang tsereganyo ka pele ke go tlhokega ga badirediloago le badiredi mo diteiseneng tsa sepodisi, go tlhokega ga disele, go tlhokega ga diphaphosi tse di tlhoetsweng go nna tsa batlhorisiwa, go tlatsa diforomo botlhaswa ga dingaka dingwe, dingaka tsa sedika tse di sa bonagaleng ka metlha, go rekwa ga badiredipuso bangwe le mapodisi, bangwe ba mapodisi ga ba rate go tshwara ditsala tsa bona, e bile bangwe ba bona ba rekwa ka tshelete.

Diforomo tsa sengwe le sengwe fa di le dileele di a tswafisa. Ka jalo go tsaya ditlelereke nako e ntsi go thusa batho go di tlatsa. Mo dinakong dingwe difaele di a timela go be go tshwanele ke gore go tlatswe tse dingwe gape. Se se je nako gape. Sa bobedi ke loleme le le dirisiwang mo diforomong tseo. Batho ba fitlhela ba na le mathata ka loleme le ba tshwanetseng go le buisa.

Ditshitshinyo tsa rona ke gore, re rata go dira boikuelo kwa mafapheng a a maleba gore badiri ba bona ba ba kwa tlase ba rupisiwe sentle go dira tiro eo, dingaka di kgone go dira dipatlisiso tsa forensic, e bile go okediwe tekanyetsokabo ya mafapha a a jaaka mapodisi, dikgotlatshekelo, badirediloago le ba boitekanelo. Badiri mo mafapheng a, ba tshwanetse go dumalana le go dira diura tse di okeditsweng. Katiso ya badiri e tshwanetse go nna e e sa emeng.

Go tiisiwe molao wa go thibela gore go se nne le tshotlano fa gare ga rre le mme. Bomme ba ba filweng lekwalo la go thibela rre go ba tshwenya ba seka ba sotla ka lona. Borre ba ba sotliwang ke bomme le bona ba tshwanetse go kopa lekwalo leo. Go dira ka dikgetse tsa mofuta o wa dintwa le tsereganyo go bakela motho stress. Se se kaya gore mapodisi a tlhoka go newa counseling le bona. Re kopa gore lefapha le potlake go bona gore seo se a diragala.

Mapodisi mangwe a sotla le go nyenyefatsa banna ba ba tlisang dikgetse tsa go sotlwa ke bomme. Ka jalo, fa lepodisi la monna le iphitlhela le sotlwa ke mme, le tshaba go bega seo ka le tshaba nyenyefatso. Ke ka moo re itemogelang palo e e kwa godimo ya mapodisi a borre a a bolayang ba malapa a bona mme ba ipolaye.

Seteisene sa sepodisi se tshwanetse go nna le modirediloago o o rupisitsweng sentle a tle a lemoge bothata jo mo mothong a ise a bo bege. Kgolagano e tshwanetse go nna e e gagametseng mo mafapheng a a amegang. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs M S MAINE: Deputy Chairperson, Ministers of state and colleagues, the above-mentioned committee went out to investigate whether the laws we have passed here to deal with conflict, domestic violence and child care are being implemented, and what the departments that are supposed to implement them are doing.

This campaign began in April 2000 and ran right up to May 2003. The main objective was to ensure that the undertakings by countries during the women’s gathering to eradicate all forms of abuse against women, otherwise known as the Beijing Platform of Action, are being carried out.

What makes us happy is to see that all the departments that are dealing with these issues have received the necessary information and are working very hard to implement these laws. It is often said that the police are not doing their duty, but what we observed, more especially in the Northern Cape, is that the police are doing more than is expected of them. This means that they deserve great honour. Most of them are good judges of character and are doing an excellent job.

A weak point we came across, which needs urgent attention, is the lack of social workers and other employees at police stations, as well as an insufficient number of cells, a lack of victims’ rooms, the careless manner in which some doctors fill in forms, the regional doctors who are not always present, and the bribery of certain public servants and police personnel. Some policemen and policewomen are reluctant to arrest their friends, while others accept bribes.

Long forms are tedious, irrespective of what they are for. As a result clerks spend a lot of time helping people to fill them in. Sometimes files get lost and it then becomes necessary to create new ones. That takes a lot of time. The other thing is the issue of the language used on those forms. People have difficulties with some of the languages used.

Our suggestion is to appeal to the relevant departments to train their shop- floor employees to perform those functions, in order to enable the doctors to do their forensic investigations. Furthermore, the budgets of departments dealing with the police, courts, social workers and health workers should be increased. Workers in such departments must agree to work extended hours. The training of workers must be an ongoing process.

The law that deals with abuse between husband and wife should be strengthened. Wives who have been granted court interdicts against their husbands should not abuse them. Husbands who are being abused by their wives should also apply for the court interdicts. Dealing with such cases, which involves mediating in conflict situations, is stressful. That means that the police also need to be counselled. We appeal to the department to ensure that that happens speedily.

Some policemen ridicule and despise men who report cases of abuse by their wives. Therefore, when a policeman finds himself being abused by his wife, he is afraid of reporting that lest he is despised by his colleagues. That is why we have a huge number of policemen who kill their families and then commit suicide. A police station should have a well-trained social worker who will be able to detect this problem even before it has been reported. There has to be close co-operation in all the affected departments.]

The survivors of abuse and rape should be accompanied to hospitals by the police. Crime kits and forms should be made available at all hospitals. Family courts specialising in domestic violence issues should be established in every district. We have seen some shelters established, but funding is needed for the wide range of services, shelters, counselling, advice and enormous amounts of community education which the NGOs are providing.

A set of policy guidelines needs to be developed around maintenance, since the Department of Social Development frequently has to deal with the legal aspects pertaining to foster care as well. Clear directives should be given with regard to warrants and the execution thereof, and also with regard to garnishing orders. Shorter maintenance forms are required and these should be simplified. It is also important that photographs of maintenance defaulters should be taken so that they do not claim to be someone else. The Maintenance Act makes provision for this.

All these Acts cannot be completely free if we ignore the rights of women in totality. The Communal Land Rights Bill that was discussed earlier this week stated that the overarching objective of the Bill is to grant land tenure rights, individually or communally, to approximately 2,4 million rural households.

The Bill, we were told, seeks to legally recognise and formalise the African traditional system of communal land within the provisions of the Constitution.

Women, in particular black women, have been severely marginalised with regard to access to land. Customary law denied women the capacity to be allocated land in their personal capacity. Their tenure was linked to their status in relation to other male members of the family as wives, daughters, mothers and sisters.

The formal legal system gave ad hoc legal recognition to customary law by creating a framework that enabled customary law to remain undeveloped. The Black Administration Act created a legislative framework that recognised the customary law of succession.

The courts, in their efforts to interpret customary law, enforced the customary law of succession and defined it to mean the eldest male heir inherits. The effect of the combination of all of these factors means that women have had no access to land.

It is therefore important to note that from the onset the racially discriminatory laws and practices, as well as the interpretation and implementation of customary law, have aggravated the position that many black women find themselves in.

Clause 14 of the Bill provides that to secure all the rights or to transfer communal land the Minister must institute a land rights enquiry. Amongst other things, the land rights enquiry must enquire the measures required to promote gender equality in the allocation and registration of the new order and the exercise of such rights. This section thus envisages that part of the enquiry will look at the measures required to promote gender equity in the allocation and registration of new order rights.

It is urged that the existence of new order rights will thus depend upon the enquiry regarding securing old order rights. However, this points to the failure of the legislation to recognise that women will not be able to hold old order rights because of the manner in which the rights have been allocated.

There is a need for this legislation to provide a process that enables the creation of new order rights to accommodate women.

Ke dira boikuelo fano gore komiti e e neng e tsere leeto le, e ikana fa gore se se buiwang fano ke nnete, mme botlhe ba ba buang fa ba tla bua ka se re se itemogetseng. [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)

[I want to appeal to the committee that undertook this trip to swear that they will speak the truth, and to every one of its members who is going to speak here to only talk about their experiences. [Applause.]]

Ms J A SEMPLE: Madam Deputy Speaker, the JMC on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women undertook study tours to all the provinces between April 2000 and May 2003 to monitor the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act and the Maintenance Act, amongst other things. These study tours enabled the JMC to evaluate the effectiveness of the above Acts which are regarded by many as extremely progressive, but the implementation and funding thereof often leaves a lot to be desired.

The study tours involved hearings and interviews with role-players such as magistrates, prosecutors, NGOs and the SA Police Service on the implementation of the Acts. Workshops were also held to educate women about their rights as set out in the two pieces of legislation. In this presentation I will concentrate on the effects of the Maintenance Act and my colleague, Sheila Camerer, will deal with the Domestic Violence Act.

As mentioned earlier, one of the biggest problems in implementing these Acts is a lack of resources. While the Acts were passed with the best of intentions, it has taken some time, in some cases a few years, for the necessary budget provisions to be made. This is well illustrated by the lack of maintenance investigators and interpreters. At the time that many of the study tours were conducted, maintenance investigators had not been appointed, which was a major concern. This meant that the complainants, usually women, had to trace respondents on their own, or that respondents lied about their financial situations without the information being checked. A concern raised in the study tour of 2003 was that maintenance investigators were only employed on a six-month contract, which prevents defendants and defaulters from being traced. Individuals who are not formally employed or do not have a permanent residence are often very difficult to track down. Interpreters are just as important as many of the forms are only available in English, despite the fact that most of the applicants do not speak English or are illiterate. The forms also need to be shorter and less complicated.

It should also be noted that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has recently announced the appointment of 16 maintenance assistants at courts across the country. However, whilst this is a start in addressing the problem, it is insufficient to address the problems faced by the maintenance court. It is therefore recommended that the department prioritise the recruitment and the permanent appointment of maintenance investigators as a matter of urgency.

The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has piloted family court projects in certain provinces. These courts deal with maintenance cases, children’s cases and domestic violence issues. They have been designed primarily to be accessible and sensitive to the needs of the community. They should operate according to simple, appropriate procedures, offer counselling and mediation support services and provide a quality service in a pleasant, user-friendly environment. It has been recommended that this project be rolled out to all provinces as soon as possible.

A major problem for many complainants is the payment of the sheriffs of the court who require money upfront for delivering papers. The majority of people needing these services are indigent and cannot afford to pay for them. It is recommended that the legislation regulating the payment of sheriffs’ fees be reviewed so that the service can be accessible to the poorest of the poor.

As with many other Acts, all of which affect our people’s lives on a daily basis, the Maintenance Act needs to be simplified in order to educate and raise public awareness. Parliament should develop booklets that inform people how to access their rights. All stakeholders need additional resources for the Acts to be successfully implemented. This includes additional human resources at police stations and courts, as well as office equipment and supplies in the form of simple things, like photocopiers and paper. It is unacceptable that applicants are turned away because the court has exhausted its photocopying budget.

These are just a few of the problems and recommendations that the JMC encountered regarding the Maintenance Act and the implementation thereof. I’m sure that I speak on behalf of all members of the JMC in expressing our thanks to all the stakeholders who participated in the discussions in the provinces. We applaud their dedication, often under very difficult circumstances, and would like them to know that we have taken their issues seriously and will put pressure on other parliamentary committees to ensure that our recommendations are implemented. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms M M MDLALOSE: Chairperson, hon members, today we stand before this House to report on the developments and the challenges of the two important Acts that were passed in this House in 1998. I say that these Acts are very important because of their impact on the lives of many men and women in this country, some of whose survival depends on the effectiveness and implementation of these Acts.

There has been a tremendous increase in the number of cases of domestic violence reported over the past five years, proving that the victims are coming out of the closet and that women and children are becoming aware of their rights and the steps they need to take to rid themselves of the abuse.

However, much as this Act has brought about this improvement as far as public awareness is concerned, the sad part is that in reality what we see on a daily basis is that it seems as if the more people are aware of their rights, the more such rights are violated. There isn’t a single day that goes by without one hearing about or observing some form of abuse or domestic violence in our communities. This problem transcends economic standing and the well-to-do because high-profile individuals are either victims or perpetrators of domestic violence.

One of the greatest challenges of this Act is ensuring that poor and illiterate women in rural areas and urban informal settlements know their rights. Women in these ares are still suffering from inequality, abuse and the fact that most of these rural areas are inaccessible. Even if a woman, or her children, experiences some form of abuse or domestic violence, it becomes difficult for her to take action against the perpetrator because she or her family is economically dependent on the perpetrator. That is why the victims, owing to these circumstances and even pressure from family members, sometimes withdraw cases of domestic violence after they have laid charges. Since the introduction of the Domestic Violence Act, there has been an improvement in the way the justice system deals with domestic violence cases. If one looks at the sentences handed down to domestic violence offenders and at the abuse of women and children over the past two years, they are living proof that the Government is serious about uprooting abuse and violence in family units.

One of the consequences of this Act has been an increasing workload for service providers like the SAPS, the Departments of Justice and Constitutional Development, of Health and of Social Development. Yet, the said departments have not been given more suitably qualified staff for this kind of work, sufficient equipment and resources, as well as support to carry out the duties related to this Act.

This has resulted in delays in rendering services to the public, especially the victims who then have to endure the trauma of waiting for longer periods for their cases to be finalised, which sometimes means enduring more abuse in the process. The Maintenance Act of 1998 has also brought about more work for the justice system, and this affects the processing time of maintenance cases. The problems of insufficient staff and resources and budgetary constraints compound the ineffective implementation of this Act.

There are also challenges posed by the long processes that need to be followed when applying for maintenance and the way the maintenance system is designed, which is not user-friendly for illiterate people. Such problems undermine the achievement of gender equality and adversely affect mothers who have to take care of children without the support of their fathers.

The importance of these two Acts cannot be overemphasised. We salute this House and the relevant stakeholders for all the efforts they have put into ensuring that the rights of the most vulnerable citizens of the country are protected. We are also very encouraged by the progress that has been made so far regarding the implementation of these Acts. However, the challenges of incapacity impact negatively on the realisation of the objectives of these Acts, which makes it imperative that all the relevant stakeholders involved in the implementation of these Acts are capacitated as a matter of urgency, so that we do not end up with a white elephant piece of legislation which does not serve the purpose for which it was enacted. The IFP supports the report. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms M R MORUTOA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of Parliament and the public at large, I am making this speech on the eve of us, as a country, celebrating our 10 years of democracy, looking at what the country has achieved and at the challenges that lie ahead.

The ANC has been committed to the emancipation of women. It is the only organisation that pursued the eradication of the triple oppression of women. Women were oppressed at home as mothers, at their workplaces as workers and, lastly, because of the colour of their skin, as black women, in particular. When the ANC came into power after 1994, South Africa was part of the SADC. It realised that the equal status and rights of men and women in marriage were neither recognised nor adequately protected in most countries.

South Africa has put in place laws that provide for equality between men and women in marriage. It has also been active in the SADC region and co- ordinated the 1998 SADC Conference on the Prevention of Violence Against Women. The South African Constitution entrenches the rights to gender equality and to freedom from violence.

Our Government has committed itself to promoting gender equality, to eradicating violence against women and to addressing the need to protect vulnerable groups, such as women and children. The South African Government has definitely progressed in reducing violence against women, especially in areas such as domestic violence, rape and sexual harassment.

When we gained our status as a constitutional democracy and as international citizens of good standing, the legislative process resulted in the production of an unprecedented body of laws that lay the foundation for the transformation of our society. Based on the vision of a nonsexist, nonracial democracy, our political leadership has made concerted efforts to put in place a gender-specific legislative framework to support the advancement of women.

This has been proven by a study tour to all provinces, undertaken by the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women between April 2000 and May 2003. The oversight function was to fulfil the country’s commitment to the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women, or CEDAW, and the Beijing Platform for Action.

This tour was also undertaken mainly to collate information from role- players such as magistrates, prosecutors, NGOs, the SAPS and the Office on the Status of Women, on the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act. In provinces such as the Northern Cape, the intergovernmental fora are focusing on matters dealing with crime prevention. Magistrates and prosecutors are treating cases of this nature with special care, unlike during the days of the apartheid regime when issues of this nature were treated as one of those usual things that ought to happen to women as a punishment for being women. I know that during those days if you dared to report such an incident to the police, it was purported by those blackjacks and the police to be a family matter. You were expected to succumb and would then be commanded to go back to the very perpetrator, without any legal action being taken or being provided with any security.

Sasisoyika kwa ukuyithetha into yokuba ubethwe ngutata wekhaya. Wawuxolela ukuphosisa uze namaqhinga, okuba ungqubeke eludongeni okanye udibene nezigebenga. Ngelo lixa siphi isidima sakho sobuntu njengenkosikazi?

Kwezi zixeko besiye kuzo sixelelwe ngamapolisa, abatshutshisi kakunye namaqumrhu azimeleyo ukuba ayabafundisa abantu ngale mithetho, de kubizwe noogqirha besimo sengqondo ukuba bancede amapolisa ukuze amelane nale meko ngoba aba hesheheshe ngenxa yokuhlala esebenza ngabantu abaphantsi kwale meko.

Kukho nomthetho ongesondlo sabantwana. Lo mthetho ubalulekile kakhulu kuba unyanzelisa umzali ukuba akhuphe isondlo somntwana. Ngelinye ixesha kuyanyanzeleka ukuba imali ide itsalwe emvuzweni womzali emsebenzini. Kweliya phondo laseRhawutini ke iyingozi kwaloo nto, yokuba loo mzali atsalelwe imali. Ikubeka esichengeni wena mntu ungumama. Kuye kufuneke ukuba ufune ukhuselo.

Zibakho ke iingxaki xa le mithetho isetyenziswa. Phaya eBrits basixelele abo bakhokela amapolisa ukuba asingawo onke amapolisa awuqonda ngokupheleleyo lo mthetho, besitsho ke kuba kucaca ukuba amanye amapolisa kuyafuneka ukuba afundiswe ukuba lo mthetho usetyenziswa ngoluphi na uhlobo. Ngelinye ixesha loo mapolisa sele enolwazi ayathathwa asiwe kwezinye iindawo, bashiyeke abantu beso sixeko bengenamncedi.

Phakathi kwenkosikazi nomyeni wayo, ngelinye ixesha awusebenzi ngendlela elungileyo lo mthetho wokhuselo. Omnye phakathi kwabo uye asebenzise lo mthetho ukuze kuviwe ngaye apha endlwini, nto ke leyo emenza ukuba abe nesigqezu xa ebona abantu, loo nto ke eyenza ngoba ephethe le ncwadi imkhuselayo. Kukwanjalo ke nasemadodeni. Lilonke, le mithetho iluncedo kuluntu lwethu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[One would not dare mention the fact that one had been beaten by one’s husband. One would rather tell a lie, and fabricate a story to the effect that one had hit one’s head against the wall or that one had been mugged. And what about one’s dignity as a woman?

In the areas we visited, the police, the prosecutors and the NGOs told us that they do educate people about these laws, and that sometimes psychologists are called in to help the police because working under these conditions affects them psychologically.

There is also a law regarding child maintenance. This law is very important because it obliges the parent to maintain the child. Sometimes maintenance money is deducted from a parent’s salary or wages. In the province of Gauteng, having maintenance money deducted from a parent’s salary or wages poses some danger. It makes you very vulnerable as a woman. Sometimes you have to apply for a protection order.

There are problems when it comes to implementing these laws. In Brits the leadership of the police there told us that not all the members of the police understand this law fully, and that some of them need to be trained in the implementation of the maintenance law. Sometimes members of the police who are well versed in this law are transferred to other areas, leaving the people of the area concerned with no one to help them.

The protection order sometimes doesn’t work well between a wife and a husband. One of the two partners could use it to boss the other partner around, because she or he has the protection order. This applies to men as well. All in all, these laws are helpful to our communities.] In Kuruman there is lack of infrastructure, such as cells, private rooms for victims and proper police stations. There are also not enough policemen and policewomen. Maintenance defaulters abscond to other provinces. There is a lot of misinterpretation of laws. This means that collectively we should correct the situation.

There are many recommendations regarding different implementers of these laws, such as forensic training for medical practitioners; increased budgets; staff availability after hours; and ongoing training for police, judges, magistrates and prosecutors. We should educate people, especially women, on their rights; impose penalties for failure to perform duties; all survivors of abuse and rape should be accompanied to hospitals by police; and we should appoint maintenance investigators.

As we assess achievements over the past nine years and concentrate on the work that has yet to be done, we must, as a society, ask ourselves what practical steps we can take to enhance the efforts of Government. We all know that Government is faced with many challenges and one of them is that of narrowing the gap between policy and implementation. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson, the committee report highlights some successes achieved by the two Acts under study in minimising the obstacles faced by women. However, when we look at the problems highlighted in the reports on the implementation of these Acts, then the lists far exceed those of the successes achieved. Once again, we are confronted with the reality that legislation is only as effective as the capacity that exists to enforce it. It provides no comfort to the suffering masses of women when they are encouraged to acquaint themselves with their rights and obligations that control the respective legislation.

The problems that the report highlights are not insurmountable. The committee can help in this regard by insisting on better performance from those departments mentioned, within its own reference framework. Perhaps it may be required from the JMC to hold discussions with the various departments and stakeholders to discuss the feasibility of certain of the recommendations within the records.

The report suggests certain innovative recommendations for consideration. One is the establishment of a specialised family court dealing with domestic violence. This may help to provide a more user-friendly environment where victims can have the freedom to co-operate with the state to assess the levels of domestic violence in society and respond appropriately. Perhaps the family courts can also incorporate a special sexual offences unit which may not create the necessity for a separate special sexual offences court as recommended in the report.

With regard to discipline and performance duties by public servants, the respective departments should take note of the recommendations made by the committee. The recommendations to improve on the speed and simplicity of application and process forms, should be taken seriously. Too many cases are delayed due to unnecessary paperwork. Paperwork is not a reflection of good service or the extent of the performance of a good day’s work. Service delivery should be benchmarked. This report is but the first step towards the understanding of the magnitude of the jobs still to be done. The next step is to show willingness to improve on the current performances. I thank you.

Ms N C NKABINDE: Chairperson, hon members, the Domestic Violence Act and the Maintenance Act are crucial pillars of the legal framework created to protect women and children from abuse and suffering. The extent to which these Acts are successfully implemented will have a direct impact on the overall constitutional commitment that we have of creating an equal and just society.

The committee and its chairperson must be congratulated for undertaking these study tours and compiling this comprehensive report, because our duty as legislators cannot merely be to sit here, removed from reality, drafting legislation and never bothering to monitor its implementation. What the report highlights is a host of problems, regarding the implementation of both these Acts. When viewed as a whole, this range of problems can be summed up as a lack of staff, resources and skills across four key departments, namely Safety and Security, Justice and Constitutional Development, Health and Social Development.

In addition, there is an urgent need to raise public awareness on the key aspects of these critical Acts. What this means - and we should not be ashamed to acknowledge this - is that Government needs to drastically increase funding to these key departments. Possibly, the ideal solution is to specifically earmark such increased funding to show that it is to be used for the correct purposes, and that reporting and monitoring are enhanced and the holistic management of the Acts can be attained.

What we urgently need to see is that these four departments and all stakeholders collectively and individually commit themselves to prioritising the implementation of these Acts through their statements, activities and budget. Doing anything less than this, is to condemn these Acts to gather dust on library shelves and allow the continued abuse and suffering of women and children to continue unchecked. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Chairperson, first of all I want to express my appreciation for the fact that the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women undertook a study tour to all nine provinces of our country between April 2000 and May 2003. This was done in order to monitor the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act of 1998 and the Maintenance Act.

The PAC holds that there is no way our country can fulfil its commitment towards the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women and the Beijing Platform for Action without a study tour like this one and the effective implementation of international instruments as well as our own domestic law.

Domestic violence against women must be uprooted. The Maintenance Act must be a tool to facilitate the payment of maintenance which is often avoided by men after putting some of our women in the family condition out of wedlock or after divorcing them.

The recommendations of the committee with regard to matters such as forensic training for medical practitioners; ongoing training for police, judges, magistrates and prosecutors; education for our women, survivors of abuse and rape, and family courts are commendable. However, in the African cultural context, this so-called acknowledgement of same-sex relationships is a controversial matter. African traditional religion, Christianity, Islam and many other religions have always frowned upon it.

In recent weeks, we have seen the whole church in Africa defy its European counterpart on this issue. Of course, homosexuality has serious consequences for the underpopulation of Africa because these people cannot bear any babies. In these days of such devastating diseases such as HIV/Aids, Africa will sooner rather than later be overrun by overpopulated countries, and Africans will then be permanently robbed of ownership of this country and the continent of our ancestors.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, I take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Mdlalose on her maiden speech. Well done.

The MF is pleased to note that great improvements have been noted since the enactment of the Domestic Violence Act. We are also glad to see that progress in terms of this Act has been noted in the light of prosecutions.

With regard to prosecutors, specialised courts, specialised prosecutors, service delivery, the SAPS prioritising domestic violence, NGO assistance, magistrates and many other role-players, this issue of domestic violence appears to have been taken very seriously.

Progress appears to have been made on the Maintenance Act. However, both appear to have been met with a series of problems that both dishearten and discourage. Many of these problems relay instances of a lack of initiative and prioritisation by role-players whose duties and efforts require an effective and efficient response to these serious offences. It is crucial that all SAPS members be equipped with the necessary training skills to handle cases of domestic violence. Further, insensitive behaviour towards victims of domestic violence of same-sex relationships is discriminatory and unacceptable.

Domestic violence is an equally important concern as any other criminal offence. The MF seeks that protection be provided to victims in the interim. The collection of evidence has to be seriously improved to ensure that justice may prevail. Many problems appear to be administrative. The MF feels that these loopholes may be filled by effective adjustment and the provision of shelters. The MF feels that the state, together with the public and private sectors, should, through funding, ensure the safety of women and children who are victims of domestic violence.

Remaining problems facing cases of domestic violence need to be earnestly addressed. Loopholes in the Maintenance Act appear to be similar with a large backlog in administration, insufficient staff and cumbersome tasks imposed on magistrates. These cause a lack of efficiency that hampers the success that the Maintenance Act was aimed at achieving.

With unemployment being such a major problem in our country, why is there a shortage of staff in our system? The MF feels that we would be assisting ourselves in many respects by recruiting willing candidates from a large resource of unemployed persons into this sector. This would activate it efficiently and ensure that maintenance issues receive the prioritisation they deserve.

The MF is impressed by the task team’s recommendation that has clearly drafted methods and aligned it to specific role-players to be instituted. The MF thanks the task team. [Time expired.]

Ms N E LAMANI: Mhlalingaphambili namalungu, okokuqala, siyambulela uRhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC ngokuthi abe nguyise weenkedama, indoda yabahlolokazi, abe nabo bazintsalu, abajonge. [Chairperson, firstly, we thank the ANC-led Government for being there for the orphans and the widows, and for looking after the destitute.]

Second of all, I would like to outline this domestic violence. Many different societies and nations, including South Africa, have for years been struggling to grapple with and contain the problem of domestic violence. In South Africa this phenomenon coincided with the country’s emancipation from the long years of apartheid, segregation, exclusion, neglect and general rights abuse. Since South Africa’s democratisation process in 1994, issues of gender and equality, particularly woman and child abuse, have received top priority from the new Government.

The ANC-led Government has committed itself to the eradication of all forms of violence against women. It stated in the national empowerment policy paper that it intended to comply with the provisions of the Beijing Platform for Action and in 1995 ratified the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. It entrenched the right to gender equality and freedom from violence in the final Constitution of 1996.

As a committee, we visited Gauteng. This is a very important province. Gauteng is a unique province because it opted not to have a gender machinery such as the Office on the Status of Women based in the premier’s office, but in the social development department. We met with the director and deputy director of social development and we were informed that the functions of the Office on the Status of Women are performed by a subdirectorate in the directorate of social development, that is the subdirectorate on HIV/Aids and gender.

The role of this directorate is very interesting. It provides support to the premier’s office on gender issues; it co-ordinates and provides leadership to ensure that departments in the province design sector- specific policies and strategies to address gender-related issues for employees - that is interesting - and citizens within communities; it liaises with Treasury with regard to preparations for integrating gender- specific budgets into departmental statements; it provides strategic support to provincial departments upon request; it develops gender indicators and monitors the performance of departments in terms of these indicators and it provides the legislature and others with reports on gender-related matters.

In our observations, the role of this subdirectorate and its standard of performance are wonderful, and we were impressed.

With regard to their achievements, I need to make these statements because from 25 November 2003 to 10 December 2003 we will be observing the 16 days of activism during which we will be sensitising the community to what we have done for women in the past 10 years.

The key achievement identified by the subdirectorate was the launch of the Gauteng Provincial General Policy Framework. This policy is based on the National Policy Framework for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equality. It is also guided by the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women and other SADC agreements. It has established gender focal points in all provincial departments. This is interesting.

What is more interesting is the fact that the staff in gender focal points will be trained and an audit on senior management will be conducted to establish their training needs from a gender perspective. There is a culture of inclusivity in this province.

Furthermore, a tender specification for capacity-building programmes has already been designed. The whole exercise will be financed with Canadian funding. There is also a plan to develop gender indicators against which departments’ performance will be monitored in terms of gender mainstreaming in their policies and programmes.

A strategy has also been developed to address violence against women and children. The directorate has co-ordinated all departments and designed a strategy to address the problems. They are currently in the process of developing a plan of action based on this strategy. The plan of action has three points of intervention; these are norms and standards, capacity- building and development of protocol for provinces.

We met the provincial women’s caucus. It was interesting. We exchanged a lot of ideas and they indicated that they will have a permanent committee to address gender issues with which we will be able to interact.

With regard to the SA Police Service, I was well impressed. It is hands-on. The register that is required for all cases of domestic violence is intact and is being kept professionally. We had a meeting with NGOs, child and family welfare societies, safety homes and organisations that provide shelter for women and others. There was a lot of interaction and it was interesting to note the manner in which the NGOs give effect to the Domestic Violence Act requirements. They visit police stations, they are well-equipped and they debated positively. The police reported that they have a high rate of arrests for incidents related to domestic violence. Furthermore, the police themselves who are involved in domestic violence will not escape arrest. This was interesting.

We had comments from people. People did not only complain and highlight a lot of problems, but they also made recommendations. They were positive in their complaints. The common problems that we identified regarding the three towns we visited were: that the legislation that has been passed is problematic at times; the issue of the protection order - people in the rural areas have no access to this order because of transport problems at times - and also that during the weekends officers are not there. Nevertheless, the awareness is there. We met with councillors. They also came on board. The NGOs and the community-based organisations were very excited and they are doing their job. It was interesting that the NGOs being run by whites were interested in even getting hold of the Act. They were not aware of this Act. But it was interesting to find that they now want to get hold of it.

We met with magistrates. We had a meeting that was addressed by Magistrate Dama of Johannesburg court, on behalf of all magistrates in Gauteng, that is Johannesburg, Pretoria and Vereeniging. From the outset, the magistrates acknowledged that training needs to be provided for them as they do not get enough training, and that despite the training they had received, they are still trapped in the past, with some police officers and clerks of the court still displaying bad attitudes towards women. The service providers must first deal with this attitude which could cause a lot of problems regarding implementation.

Furthermore, though the NGOs are doing their work, they experience difficulties because they are not aware of the content of this Act. Regarding the Maintenance Act, we should applaud the Government for the work that has been done. A lot has been done to improve this Act. We have inspectors that are going to be there on a daily basis. There are trained people that are going to trace the defaulters and this will be done in such a way that there will be communication with the Department of Labour, from which they will get information. They will even go to traffic departments for information, which would be in a position to trace the whereabouts of defaulters. We are hands-on and we are going to make it happen.

We, as politicians, need to be aware of this. Let’s go to the community. The community should be involved in implementing the Domestic Violence Act. When kids are traumatised the educators need to be involved and be hands- on, so that we can deal with this effectively.

When I visited a police station at New Brighton, I found that NGOs do go there, but they do not have the capacity and they have nobody to report to except in the offices. However, the community-based organisations will be able to say, ``When we went to the police station, we found that there were indicators that in this area domestic violence has increased’’. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms T E MILLIN: Chairperson and hon members, the issues of violence against women and child abuse are unquestionably at the root of the moral degeneration of society universally but we must, of course, focus on our own problems. There are many factors that cause the problem, all well known and highlighted ad nauseum, and all the abuses stem from humankind’s disobedience, indeed, defiance of the immutable, unchangeable Judeo- Christian laws laid down for us in the ten Commandments of the Bible and, in similar vein, in the holy books of the other mainline faiths.

If we, in our feeble human capacity, attempt to draft and implement laws that bypass, rationalise and even ignore these unchanging laws, we shall continue to wander aimlessly through a maze of dead-ends without ever solving this or other crucial matters. Indeed, we shall accelerate the breakdown and corruption of healthy and acceptable human conduct. Without a major societal shift towards biblical precepts, the basis for the majority of faiths in South Africa or parallel values of the other mainline faiths, we as a nation shall remain rudderless.

It is a fact that churches in general are foundering on the shaky ground of secular humanism, having largely forsaken their institutions to society’s manipulations, devices and desires to accept or reject our Creator’s laws whenever inconvenient. Hence the festering turmoil.

With regard to the Bill of Rights in our Constitution, for as long as we uphold the longest clause, that is clause 35, namely protecting the rights of arrested, detained and accused persons, without a similarly lengthy balancing clause protecting the rights of victims with the provision, in the event of a clash, that a victim’s rights take precedence over the offender’s rights, we as legislators are nothing but highly paid headless chickens and society in general will continue to suffer violence and abuse. I therefore propose that the constitutional review committee should urgently address the glaring shortcomings in the Bill of Rights with regard to victims’ rights. [Time expired.]

Ms J MOLOI: Chairperson and hon members, our deepest sympathies to the hon Kotwal and his family on the loss of their two-and-half-year-old son who was buried yesterday. May they get the strength to deal with this difficult situation.

The attainment of political freedom and democracy 10 years ago presented our Government with the twin challenges of overarching institutional transformation on the one hand, while on the other hand formulating new policies in line with our democratic Constitution. This dual challenge had to be faced within the historic context of our South African colonial apartheid past.

In the elaboration of our Government policies, programmes have been put in place to dramatically create the requisite environment for us to restore the dignity of South African citizens, especially the previously marginalised women and children. The report before this House today takes its cue from the natural point of departure, which is to bridge the gap between what we said we will do and what we are actually doing as a nation.

An oversight role must be undertaken with a view to evaluate what works and what does not, and to guide those charged with this task in what should constitute the next move. As part of observations from the study tour on the Domestic Violence Act, awareness is already spreading amongst most communities through education programmes by the Government, NGOs, CBOs and other relevant institutions.

We understand that this Act was established in order to prevent and stop the abuse of women, and this is seen by most women as relief from the ever- prevailing situation that was unbearable for them. Confidence is built amongst women and the high statistics showing cases of abuse are as a result of women opening up and speaking out, knowing that the law will provide protection for them.

The establishment of specialised courts, particularly in KZN and the Western Cape, further indicates the commitment to implement these laws diligently. Raising consciousness within the SA Police Service and prioritising domestic violence cases have proven to be positive factors. Of course, a continuous training programme for the police, magistrates, prosecutors and judges has been identified as necessary.

The reporting and withdrawal of cases by most women proves to be costly to Government’s administrative function and the introduction of the withdrawal of cases only by senior prosecutors could save this situation, since withdrawal will not be that easy.

A lack of infrastructure in rural areas disadvantages rural women with regard to benefiting from these laws and further isolates them from the mainstream. This becomes an urgent situation that needs attention. There arose a need between the SA Police Service and the health department to improve relations on handling matters affecting the two departments in a professional manner. For instance, rape victims need not stand in long queues for medical records and the doctors have to be properly trained to fill in medical forms in a way that would enable conviction as required.

Amongst the inputs made by communities, people in same-sex relationships, particularly males, indicated that they were harassed by police when they came to report their cases and are told to fight for themselves. For instance, if a man comes and reports that his partner, who is also a man, has beaten him, the police ask him why he cannot fight for himself. How can he allow himself to be beaten by another man? We need to start respecting people’s choices in terms of same-sex relationships and treat them as equal human beings. They are entitled to protection and human dignity like everyone else.

With regard to the Maintenance Act, the establishment of the justice college in Gauteng for maintenance officers, clerks and prosecutors came as a positive factor since there is a dire need to have a pool of specialised staff to deal with maintenance cases.

An absence of investigating officers makes women vulnerable since they have to investigate the details of perpetrators themselves. A speedy intervention in this area by the justice department will be of much help for women who complain bitterly of this practice. In order for us to insure that issues affecting the emancipation of women are mainstreamed within our broad transformation programme it is critical that we continuously strengthen the gender machinery that we have initiated in Government, in Parliament, in independent bodies and in our communities.

The National Office on the Status of Women has developed a national gender framework for women’s empowerment and gender equality as a broad guiding tool for overall gender implementation. The Office on the Status of Women has been established in all provinces, including KZN. In Gauteng this office is located within the social development directorate that deals with gender and HIV/Aids issues.

What needs to be noted is consistency in naming. That is, if it can also be named OSW like in all other provinces, gauteng will not be seen as defying the establishment of this office while the office is fully functional, but named differently.

Hierarchical accountability and reporting appear to be a common problem with the provincial offices on the status of women, resulting in lack of influence in decision-making and policy implementation. The poor role played by departmental gender focal points appears to be a constraint on the offices on the status of women, as opposed to the head of departments who have to take direct accountability on the lack of implementation and mainstreaming within their line function departments.

A continuous gender training programme and conscientisation at all levels of management are highly recommended. We may not take it for granted that if a person is at the level of an HOD, automatically the issue of gender will be mainstreamed. We need to make concerted efforts to ensure that we continously conscientise gender in order to have a fruitful mainstreaming at all levels of management.

A need to evaluate HODs on gender progress in renewal of their performance contract is identified and is seen as a measure that will ensure that heads of departments consciously mainstream gender in their work. The Department of Public Administration has to be central in monitoring this process.

The gender focal points in national departments have to properly guide provincial gender focal points on policy implementation to complement the work of the offices on the status of women. A need has been identified to reinforce gender mainstreaming in the finance department’s planning unit, accountable to the approval of the departmental business plan, in order to ensure that budgeting considers gender implementation and all programmes cover this factor. All heads of various clusters have to report on gender implementation and the impact thereof. We have noticed that it has been the burden of the ANC to ensure that gender representivity in Parliament is realised and other parties have enjoyed a back seat on this critical task.

This situation should not escape them forever and we would assist them to think critically. This will happen by ensuring that we develop legislation that will bind the representation of women in Parliament. If we are committed to nation-building, why should other parties be casual about gender representivity? We have done so much as the ANC and they should have learnt by now. We remain prepared to take them through this learning curve but it will be the hard way because now we have to pursue this task through legislation, lest it gets reversed.

The issue of solving domestic violence, including child molestation, sexual harassment and maintenance, can be properly facilitated through the social partnership pact. Communities have to be at the forefront of dealing with this problem with the joint involvement of community structures, churches, schools, police, prosecutors, magistrates, judges and social workers.

Involvement, particularly of the community, proves to be effective, relieving Government of the burden to take on the heavy load alone. This report is being tabled within the 16-day period identified for activism against gender violence which started on 25 November and will culminate on 10 December.

It is not wrong to have men at the forefront of this campaign in order to correctly display that, as part of society, they are against gender violence and in order to state clearly that not all men are violators of human rights, but that as sensible men they demand a healthy living environment for everyone and for the generations to come.

There are institutions already established that are led by men to voice their opinion on a violence-free society. We have to thank both the Chairperson of the NCOP and the Speaker of the National Assembly for taking us through the task of compiling this report. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Thank you, Chairperson. The DA believes that the oversight role of the joint monitoring committee is perhaps its most important work, and the committee has done particularly valuable work in monitoring the implementation in the various provinces of these two statutes, the Domestic Violence Act and the Maintenance Act, which are of such importance to women. My colleague on the committee, the hon Janet Semple has asked me to refer particularly to the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act.

This is a pioneering piece of legislation. I introduced its predecessor into Parliament in 1993, ten years ago. It was so often used by women, even during the first years of its availability, as a means to restrain violent spouses, that the shortcomings of the first Act quickly became clear and so we were soon able to put on the Statute Book a much improved piece of legislation in the form of the present Act, passed in 1998.

The fact that we have this legislation, and that it works and is extensively used, is the envy of women’s organisations in many countries of the world.

In the past five years, since the Act was passed, reports that have come to Parliament have indicated that the main problems with the implementation relate to the failure of the SA Police Service to come to the party and render the assistance as required in terms of the Act.

A detailed national instruction was issued by the SAPS but, as National Commissioner Selebi said shortly after taking office, the SAPS was ill- equipped and lacked the manpower to do what they were supposed to do under the Act.

Unfortunately, as the report of the joint monitoring committee suggests, although there has been some improvement in the SA Police Service’s attitude towards the Act, some problems remain.

On the positive side, domestic violence against women and children is now regarded as a priority area for the SAPS and on the whole its members are aware of it and are treating it with the necessary seriousness. However, in Gauteng and Limpopo the committee was told that the police did not regard domestic violence as part of their official workload, but rather as a family matter and a burdensome additional activity. It therefore seems that the SA Police Service’s leadership will have to step in and change attitudes in these two provinces.

Training is also a big issue. It is clear that not all SAPS members have received training in the implementation of the Act. Some prosecutors have also indicated that they do not feel equipped to deal effectively with some of the cases - particularly where sexual violence or sexual offences have taken place. This is of particular concern in view of the fact that the new sexual offences legislation will shortly be passed by this House. The joint monitoring committee recommends more extensive and compulsory training. Perhaps Justice College should reassess the needs of prosecutors as far as training for domestic violence cases and sexual offences cases is concerned and step in with more specialised courses.

Another important point that the joint monitoring committee has established is that there is a general lack of infrastructure to support this legislation. For example, there are insufficient specialist family courts - a matter that has been confirmed by oversight visits of the justice portfolio committee. The joint monitoring committee recommends that they be established in every court district, as we do as well in the justice portfolio committee. Secondly, there are insufficient facilities available at courts to accommodate victims - separate waiting rooms for victims and witnesses are unheard of in smaller and rural courts.

Thirdly, the SAPS has insufficient vehicles and other resources. And there is a lack of shelters to accommodate the victims and their children who wish to move from an abusive domestic environment. There is also a general lack of mechanisms to protect the victims until an order - a restraining order - is made final. There are also technical difficulties with the overlong and complicated application forms for interdicts and protection orders.

This latter aspect can easily be dealt with by the Justice department bureaucracy and should be looked at as soon as possible. But the lack of infrastructure is, as ever, a problem. The criminal justice departments have been starved of resources for a long period, and the joint monitoring committee is clearly going to battle to get more resources allocated, but we can only try.

The best news from these reports is that there has been an incremental change of attitude and awareness by police and prosecutors that combating domestic violence and assisting the victims is indeed part of their job. The DA supports the report. Thank you, Chairman.

Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Thank you, hon Chairperson and hon members. The most striking single social, political and economic transformation of the past century has been the emergence of women as leaders in every country and every walk of life. It is these women who place women’s issues on the agenda and legislate for these issues. Our Parliament is demonstrative of this.

The Domestic Violence Act and the Maintenance Act are leading Acts of this Parliament. Yet more often than not, homes, instead of being places of safety and comfort, have tragically turned into places of torture and torment.

The IFP supports the report. It is frank and comprehensive and deals with issues as they are. For example, there is a litany of problems with the implementation of these Acts, ranging from withdrawal of cases to lack of support services. These issues are clearly articulated in the report, yet we need to go further and ask what is to be done. The gap between policy and implementation needs to get smaller. There are real issues of capacity and resources.

Women cannot be cheated out of their resources. These Acts will remain pieces of paper as long as resources are not set aside for women’s security. More funding is set aside for sports organisations than for women’s organisations and women’s shelters. Despite the strides made by Government, despite women emerging as leaders, women need to feel freedom from fear. If we have achieved this, then we have won. And as we strive to ensure that women are kept safe, let us remember the African saying, ``Paradise is open at the command of women’’.

The IFP supports this report. Thank you.

Ms L M T XINGWANA: Chairperson, I think I must thank my colleagues, both on the left and the right side of the House, for taking this report very seriously. Indeed there is nothing in the sentence. We did not use this serious issue as a political football. I do believe that this House is maturing. Perhaps the women in this House are maturing. [Applause.]

I will start off by looking at the definition of ``domestic violence’’, which has, clearly, been described effectively in the Domestic Violence Act, Act 116 of 1998. I believe that it is important that all of us, both men and women, familiarise ourselves with the definition.

According to the Act, domestic violence means physical abuse; sexual abuse; emotional, verbal and psychological abuse; economic abuse; intimidation; harassment; stalking; damage to property; entry into property without consent; and any other controlling or abusive behaviour towards a complainant.

I want to focus firstly on women in the rural areas, and then on women in traditional communities or under traditional councils. These are the women who experience all forms of abuse in their daily lives, especially intimidation, and verbal and psychological abuse, as well as other controlling and abusive practices.

This then takes us directly to the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill, which was debated in this House earlier this week. For instance, we have Sesi Phillia Shilubana, who has been told that: ``Angekhe aphathe abakwaBaloyi, ngoba bona angekhe baphathwe ngumuntu ogqoka ipitikoti [She will never be chief of the Baloyis because they will never be led by somebody who wears a petticoat].

Sesi Phillia Shilubana was told that she could not be the kgoshi of the Baloyi because they cannot be led by a person who wears a petticoat or a skirt. This means that abuse is continuing in South Africa. This happens despite the fact that we have a Constitution that has an entrenched equality clause; an equality clause that supersedes custom, tradition and religion.

We have raised these concerns together as women’s organisations, NGOs and the Commission on Gender Equality many a time and also during the public hearings on this Bill. I have read carefully the report from the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government, of the National Assembly, which was a response to these concerns. Let me quote from the report:

But, it has to be appreciated that while customs and traditions are not static, they have a momentum of their own. It is far more difficult to effect transformation through legislation in areas of custom and tradition than it is in other aspects of society, for example education, the economy or health care. Transformation in the areas of custom and tradition has to be phased in appropriately.

Nice English, hon members, kodwa ngesiXhosa, lo mbono ufana nqwa nokuthi: Nyamezela mntwan'am, kunzima emendweni'' [but it's like saying in isiXhosa:Hang in there, my child, married life has never been easy’’]. So, as women, we have to wait for these customs and traditions to follow their course.

Ngokuya sasiphantsi kwengcinezelo yocalucalulo sasithi: ``Inkululeko ngoku, hayi ngomso.’’ Amakhosikazi atsho njalo nanamhlanje ngokubhekisele kulo Mthetho uYilwayo ujongene nezobukhosi, ukuba: Howu! Kwanele ngoku! (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[During the days of apartheid we used to say: ``Freedom now, not tomorrow.’’ Today women are saying, with regard to the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill: Stop! Enough is enough!]

We must see transformation.

Kudala sihlala phantsi kwengcinezelo, amakhulukhulu eminyaka. [We have been living under oppression for centuries.]

Enough is enough!

While we acknowledge that the preamble to the Bill provides for the institution of traditional leadership to be transformed and brought in harmony with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, we believe that this Bill is a framework and must give guidance to provinces to the effect that the Constitution is the fundamental law of the country. The equality clause must be used as a guide, particularly when we look at the customs and traditions.

We believe that nonsexism and gender equality in all aspects of governance are fundamental to this process. The rights of women within rural communities should be protected and extended to at least equal those enjoyed by men.

At this juncture, I also want to raise a major concern as far as women are concerned, and that is around the delay of the passing of the Customary Law of Succession Bill, which is also linked to the traditional leadership Bill. This Bill has to be amended because at the moment it is unconstitutional. It has to be amended to bring it in line with the Constitution of the country.

As women, we would like to know from the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development: When are we tabling and passing this Bill? We have been waiting for the Customary Law of Succession Bill to be amended since 1994. We also want to know from the Minister for Provincial and Local Government the reason the issue of succession has been overlooked in the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill.

I would also like to comment on the Communal Land Rights Bill, which is a burning issue among our people, particularly women who live on rural and communal land. The issue of traditional councils, which predominantly will be responsible for land administration, is an area of concern. How will they be appointed? How will they be composed? The heavy bias towards traditional leaders is a concern for women.

Women’s organisations and human rights groups have also raised concerns around this Bill. Of particular concern to us are the human and women’s rights, which are not effectively covered and protected in the Bill as it stands. We will raise other concerns with the relevant committees on this issue later. We believe, however, that we should mention them because they are a matter of urgency and they also concern the issue of human rights.

I would like to raise a few issues on the findings of the joint monitoring committee on the study tour to provinces. I’ll be very brief because my colleagues, as I’ve already said, have largely covered the findings on the Domestic Violence Act and the Maintenance Act. However, I just want to mention a few issues around domestic violence and maintenance.

I want to commend the SA Police Service in particular. They were very committed and demonstrated their seriousness regarding violence and abuse of women and children. The SAPS has actually declared violence against and abuse of women and children a priority in their programmes. Most SAPS members have been trained on the Domestic Violence Act and on how to attend to victims.

We were met by the most senior officials in the particular city we visited or in that province, from the level of commissioner, and they were always punctual. Areas to improve on in this regard include resources and budgets. For instance, cars are not available for them to respond in time when a child is raped or when there is an emergency.

We would like, therefore, to emphasise budgeting, especially as far as violence against and abuse of women are concerned, as well as in regard to the Child Protection Units.

Let me take this opportunity to commend Government as well, for tabling the Sexual Offences Bill. We urge, however, that the definition of rape should not be graded. Rape is rape, whether it is oral, genital, or anal, and it must be taken equally seriously in all circumstances so that we can have effective sentencing of offenders. We also urge that treatment be provided for victims, including postexposure prophylaxis for HIV/Aids.

Regarding maintenance, I just want to emphasise the need for maintenance investigators. We appreciate the fact that about 55 of them have been employed on a six-month basis because of budgetary constraints. We urge the Ministry for Justice to ensure that in the next financial year we have a sufficient budget for these maintenance investigators.

Ootata babantwana bayabaleka, babalekela eTranskei nakwaVenda, nto leyo ebangela ukuba abatshutshisi bangakwazi ukubafumana. [Many fathers are running away from areas such as the former Transkei and Venda, which makes it difficult for prosecutors to trace them.]

When we have dedicated investigators it is much easier to trace them.

To go back to my focus, the national gender machinery, South Africa’s Policy Framework for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equality, proposes a process that mainstreams gender in all spheres of life and in all sectors. Therefore gender must be central to transformation in all our structures, institutions, procedures, practices and programmes of Government, including parastatals, the private sector and civil society.

To meet our international commitment to gender equality … such as Cedaw and the Beijing Platform for Action, a national gender machinery was established. The national machinery included the Office on the Status of Women, the Gender Focal Point, CGE and the joint monitoring committee.

I think we have a number of achievements in this area; for instance, our provincial and national governments are gender-mainstreaming programmes, budgets and projects. The machinery should also take care of monitoring.

We have meetings with NGOs, which ensures that we work together as women, and together we also look at issues such as HIV/Aids, home-based care and domestic violence.

We also have programmes on poverty alleviation, employment creation and procurement opportunities for rural women. In particular, this has happened in the Free State, the Northern Cape and the North West.

The OSW has provided training for gender focal persons in various departments. Some provinces, such as Gauteng and the Northern Province, have developed their gender policy frameworks, and we urge all our departments and provinces to do the same. Nationally, the Department of Health has also developed its gender framework policy.

We want, therefore, to emphasise that the issues of rank and position, skills and experience, and maturity of persons occupying these positions are critical for them to be efficient. We also want to say that their rank should be at director level, as gender policy stipulates, and they must be placed in the DG’s office or with the head of department at national and provincial levels.

Lastly, I want to thank all those who participated, especially the NGOs, the police, the magistrates and prosecutors, who were very helpful in that they came forward with the necessary information. I also want to thank the staff from Parliament that assisted us, especially the researchers, and the administrative staff that assisted us during the study tours and during preparations, and with logistics and compiling our report.

Last, but not least, let me thank the portfolio committee, the joint monitoring committee members, who sacrificed their constituency work and their family time and went out to participate in these important study tours. I want to close off by calling on all of us to join the national campaign of ``No Violence against Women and Children’’ from 25 November to 10 December. However, we are saying that this must not be done only during the 16 days; it must happen for 365 days, throughout the year. We must all, both men and women, be committed to it.

I would like to commend our President, who took a leadership role, particularly at the launch of this programme last year and has throughout his speeches dealt with the issues of violence and abuse all over the country. I also want to urge all our leaders, all our religious groups and all our community leaders, men and women, to support this important campaign. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move that the report be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

            ORDER NO 2 UNDER FURTHER BUSINESS TO BE TAKEN

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move the motion, as follows:

That Order No 2 under Further Business now be taken.

Agreed to.

                             LIQUOR BILL

(Consideration of Bill, as amended by the National Council of Provinces, and of Report thereon)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move the motion, as follows:

That the House refuses to pass the Liquor Bill as amended by the National Council of Provinces.

Agreed to.

Bill accordingly not passed. The House adjourned at 18:07. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. Messages from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly in respect of Bills passed by Council and transmitted to Assembly:

 (1)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bill, subject to proposed  amendments,  passed  by  Council  on  13
     November  2003  and  transmitted  for  consideration  of  Council's
     proposed amendments:


     (i)     General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill  [B  47B  -  2003]
          (National Assembly - sec 75)  (for  proposed  amendments,  see
          Announcements, Tablings  and  Committee  Reports,  13  October
          2003, p 1287).


     The Bill has been referred to the Ad Hoc Committee on  Intelligence
     Legislation  of  the  National  Assembly  for  a  report   on   the
     amendments proposed by the Council.

1. Referrals to committees of papers tabled:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Justice and Constitutional Development. The Report of the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements is  referred  to  the  Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the South African  Human  Rights
     Commission for 2002-2003, including  the  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 142-2003].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Public Service and  Administration.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements is  referred  to  the  Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of  the  South  African  Management
     Development Institute (SAMDI) for 2001-2002, including  the  Report
     of the Auditor-General on the Financial  Statements  for  2001-2002
     [RP 10-2003].


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Home Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General  on  the  Financial
     Statements  is  referred  to  the  Standing  Committee  on   Public
     Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Independent  Electoral
     Commission - Represented Political  Parties'  Fund  for  2002-2003,
     including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the  Financial
     Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 68-2003].


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Trade and Industry.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
     Financial Statements is  referred  to  the  Standing  Committee  on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Companies  and  Intellectual
     Property Registration Office (CIPRO) for 2002-2003,  including  the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-
     2003 [RP 131-2003].
 (5)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Finance for consideration and report:


     (a)     Convention between the Government of the Republic of  South
          Africa and the Government of the Federative Republic of Brazil
          for the Avoidance of Double Taxation  and  the  Prevention  of
          Fiscal Evasion in respect of Taxes on Income, tabled in  terms
          of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum on the  Double  Taxation  Convention
          between the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
          Federative Republic of Brazil  for  the  Avoidance  of  Double
          Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion  in  respect  of
          Taxes on Income.


 (6)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Public Service and Administration:
     (a)     Report of the Public Service Commission on  the  Evaluation
          of Land Administration in the Eastern Cape for  2003  [RP  52-
          2003].


     (b)     Report of the Public Service Commission on  the  Monitoring
          and Evaluation System - Pilot Study in the Northern  Cape  for
          2002 [RP 180-2002].


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Education. The Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the  Financial
     Statements  is  referred  to  the  Standing  Committee  on   Public
     Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Council on Higher  Education
     (CHE) for 2002-2003, including the Report  of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 120-2003].


 (8)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Social Development. The  Reports  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
     Financial Statements are referred  to  the  Standing  Committee  on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Social  Relief  Fund
          for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General  on
          the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 169-2003].


     (b)     Annual Financial Statements of  the  High  School  Vorentoe
          Disaster Fund for  2002-2003,  including  the  Report  of  the
          Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003  [RP
          176-2003].


 (9)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Public Service and  Administration.  The  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements is  referred  to  the  Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements  of  State  Information  Technology
     Agency (SITA) (Pty) Ltd. for 2002-2003,  including  the  Report  of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for  2002-2003  [RP
     69-2003].


 (10)   The following papers are referred to the Standing  Committee  on
     Public Accounts for consideration:


     (a)     Replies from the Minister of  Arts,  Culture,  Science  and
          Technology with regard to the 1st to the 7th  reports  of  the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts.


     (b)     Letter dated 7 November 2003, from the  Presidency  to  the
          Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section 65(2)(a)
          of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999),
          explaining the delay in the tabling of the  Annual  Report  of
          The Presidency.


     (c)     Letter dated 3 November 2003, from the Minister  of  Social
          Development to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in  terms
          of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
          (Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the delay in the tabling of the
          Annual Report of the National  Development  Agency  for  2002-
          2003.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Education:

 Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  South  African  Council  for
 Educators (SACE) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent
 Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

 Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Parks for
 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 2002-2003.

1. The Minister of Communications:

 Report and Financial Statements of the  Universal  Service  Agency  for
 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 2002-2003.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (a)     Letter  dated  11  November  2003,   from   the   Minister   of
     Environmental Affairs and Tourism to the Speaker  of  the  National
     Assembly, in terms  of  section  65(2)(a)  of  the  Public  Finance
     Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999), explaining  the  delay  in
     the tabling of the Annual Report  of  the  South  African  National
     Parks for 2002-2003:


          The tabling of the attached Annual  Report  of  South  African
          National Parks 2002/2003 has reference.


          In terms of  section  55(1)(d)  of  the  PFMA,  South  African
          National Parks in its capacity as Public Entity must submit an
          Annual Report to you  within  5  months  of  the  end  of  the
          financial year. The explanation for the delay in  the  tabling
          of the Annual Report of the South African  National  Parks  is
          that the final report was unsatisfactory and they appointed an
          external editor to put the finishing touches  to  the  report.
          This process delayed the production of  the  report  by  three
          weeks. The World Parks Congress  put  further  strain  on  the
          production of the report, as the persons primarily responsible
          for preparing the annual report were also principal organisers
          for the congress. This delayed the final product by a  further
          thirty days.


          In addition, the final printed product that was  delivered  to
          our offices had a number of pages missing from  the  financial
          statements. These copies were returned  to  be  reprinted  and
          these were delivered to our offices on 10 November 2003.


          Your understanding in this regard is highly appreciated.


          Yours sincerely


          Signed
          M V MOOSA
          MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM


 (b)     Letter  dated  12  November  2003,   from   the   Minister   of
     Communications to the Speaker of the National  Assembly,  in  terms
     of section 65(2)(a) of the  Public  Finance  Management  Act,  1999
     (Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the delay  in  the  tabling  of  the
     Annual Report of the Universal Service Agency for 2002-2003:


          Dear Madam Speaker


          The reason for the late submission of the Annual Report is due
          to the departure of the CEO and CFO of the Agency at the  time
          when this Annual Report had to be prepared.


          Kindly accept our apology for the delay.
          Kind regards


          Signed
          IVY MATSEPE-CASABURRI, MP
          MINISTER

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30B - 2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 11 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered subject of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30B - 2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 30C - 2003].