WEDNESDAY, 4 JUNE 2003 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 15:02.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Madam Chair, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of this Council I shall propose:

That the Council takes note that -

(1) in 1999, the then Democratic Party gained twice as many votes in the province of Mpumalanga as the New NP, and three times as many votes as the Freedom Front;

(2) Clive Hatch rightfully and lawfully became the leader of the opposition in Mpumalanga as he was overwhelmingly the choice of opposition voters in that province;

(3) the Mpumalanga Provincial Legislature has now amended Rule 220 of the Provincial Rules and Orders, the effect of which will be to allow opposition MPLs to determine their own leader of the opposition, thus invalidating the choice of the voters;

(4) the ANC was part and parcel of this process, reminding us that their desire to totally dominate South Africa now even extends to influencing who their opposition will be notwithstanding the will of the voters; and

(5) the New NP’s participation in this fiasco not only undermines democracy, but also demonstrates that there is no practical difference remaining between them and the Government.

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, at the next sitting of this Council I shall move that the Council notes that:

 (1)     the  ACDP  at  its  Federal  Council  meeting  has  ruled  that
     affirmative action as currently applied by the  Government  is  not
     fairly applied;


 (2)    the highest policy-making body of the ACDP ruled that  the  ACDP
     advocates changing  the  focus  from  previously  disadvantaged  to
     currently disadvantaged individuals, changing the  focus  from  the
     current racially discriminatory nature of affirmative action;


 (3)    many South  Africans  are  no  longer  disadvantaged  while  the
     majority is still poor and suffering - the  ACDP  will  focus  upon
     the genuinely needy, the disadvantaged and the poor;


 (4)    the ACDP policy-making body also recommended the creation of  an
     apartheid restitution fund to focus upon the social redress of  the
     apartheid system and that the fund should  provide  backing  for  a
     financial restitution claims process;


 (5)    the ACDP decided that it would put a timeline and sunset  clause
     on the whole process; and


 (6)    the ACDP said at its Federal Council meeting that it would focus
     not only on the wrongs of the past but also on the  wrongs  of  the
     present, flowing  from  the  impact  of  the  Government's  secular
     humanism programme.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                  Debate on Vote No 15 - Education:

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Chairperson and colleagues, I’m pleased to be here with colleagues from the provinces with whom I have a good working relationship, in so doing accomplishing the imperatives and benefits of co- operative governance, especially during the discussion and debate on the Education Budget Vote No 15.

Present today are some members of the executive councils and special provincial delegates who are here not in their party-political capacities, but with a mandate representing their provinces. So I hope we can have a sincere debate, an open debate, without some of the silly posturing that so often prevails in the National Assembly.

I do not intend to duplicate my speech to the National Assembly. Instead I would like to focus on issues that relate directly to education in the provinces, including some of the measures that will improve the quality of the education system provided and allow for greater efficiencies of the system.

Too often we do not pay enough attention to the progress we have made in building our democracy and the institutions that will sustain it in the years ahead. There is no historic parallel in South Africa to judge change and development, except that of democracy itself. This is no different in education. We have made some extraordinarily significant strides in the last nine years, not just in the quality and quantity of education, but also in respect of access to education, particularly targeting the poor and the previously disadvantaged groups in our country, who continue to remain the disadvantaged, notwithstanding any statement to the contrary that I heard earlier.

And so may I commend to you, to all members here, if we’re going to have an understandable debate, that we should look at the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review for 2005, where on page 51 they deal with education, province by province, and refer to the developments and the budgetary aspects province by province. And this would be, therefore, the kind of guideline I shall take into account, but, of course, not plagiarising from the Minister of Finance.

So, for instance, if we look at what’s happened, net enrolment in primary education in South Africa is now higher than 95%, which, believe it or not, is higher than that of many developed countries. And the developed countries extend from the United States to France and even to Finland. Another remarkable aspect is that since 1999 there has been an average annual increase in pass rates - in other words those who sat the examination and those who passed the matriculation examination - of 6 percentage points. In other words, the figure went from a pass rate of 48,8% in 1999 to 68,9% in 2002, with a greater number of exemptions.

The total provincial education expenditure increase between 2002-03 and 2003-04 in constant rand terms is truly substantial: a real increase of R2,4 billion in 2003 rands, which is R5,5 billion in nominal rands, reinforcing an upward trend in expenditure in education. During the current MTEF period expenditure is expected to grow by 2,7% per annum in real terms. In other words, if the inflation was 8%, it would then be a 10,7% increase. So, it is a 2,7% increase in real terms.

During the current financial year we expect to spend R58,9 billion on provinical education. Now R58,9 billion is more than 22% of our national Budget and more than 5,5% of our Gross National Product. These are truly remarkable figures. And remember, this is a larger cake. Unlike 1994, when a large-ish cake was for about 15% or 16% of the population, this larger cake is for 100% of the population.

Expenditure per learner in the schooling system has increased from R3 234 in 1999 to R3 995 in 2000-01 and is estimated to increase to R4 437 in 2002- 03, although individual provinces’ budgets are under pressure due to personnel spending and considerable infrastructure needs, which I’ll address shortly.

But you will recall, Madam Chairperson, that in 1994 the expenditure on a black child was one fifth of that on a white child. That was only in 1994. It is remarkable that in nine years we’ve been able to equate this and we will come, in fact, to dealing with the previously disadvantaged in a moment. So, pro-poor funding policies from national to provincial and within the education system for the funding norms are working and showing results. The challenge is to make output and learner achievement also more equitably distributed in the system and in society.

A major part of our focus has been the introduction of the Revised National Curriculum Statement and preparations are well under way for its introduction in the foundation phase. Now we have the Revised National Curriculum Statement here. This is the full statement about curriculum. It is translated into 11 languages - which must be a world record - including Braille. So this is a remarkable achievement by a democratic government. We’ll introduce grades slowly, Grades R to 3 next year. We’re taking our time. This curriculum revision had two goals. One was to vastly simplify the curriculum outcomes statements, so that all teachers can understand and use them properly. We have, therefore, teachers’ guides for the development and learning programmes in the foundation phase.

So we are taking it very deliberately now. This, as I’ve told you, has been to ensure that there were no misunderstandings. We’ve provided assessment standards for each outcome to show teachers what should be expected at each grade level. I’m pleased to report there are now very explicit statements about being able to read and write. When I became Minister there wasn’t a specific statement in the learning area that children at the end of Grade 3 should be expected to read and write. In addition, we have provided each teacher with a guide which gives a huge amount of advice on turning outcome statements into learning programmes which are suitable for their pupils. We didn’t do that before either, because we thought that teachers should not be given a framework or advice.

The other purpose of the curriculum revisions was to insert a much stronger emphasis on human rights, and I can assure Mr Durr that this is not the development of a secular, humanist approach, but simply to reflect the constitutional assumption that our country is driven by the fundamental principles of equity, of equality, and of freedom. Of course the founding principles are equality, freedom and dignity. These are the foundation ones. If that makes us humanist, we plead guilty. If it makes us secularist, we do not plead guilty, because the fundamental assumption there is in fact a value system that drives us. The value system may not be approved of by former National Party supporters, but it’s a value system that’s very important.

So, there is an emphasis on human rights, on inclusivity, and on the celebration of our diversity. And where previously our diversity was an instrument of subjugation and subordination, our diversity now is an occasion for celebration. So in future children will learn much more about our wonderful country, not just its physical geography, but its history and its soul as well. They must know how it has come about, the battles that have been fought around ownership and the values which we now share, along with this land, as inscribed in our Constitution and in the Freedom Charter with the very proud claim that South Africa belongs to all those who live in it, black and white.

We have delivered boxes of copies of the curriculum statement to every school. Additional copies are currently being sent to every foundation phase teacher. I would like to ask members of this Council - because I made this appeal before, three or four years ago - that we must work jointly, together in this, to do a service to the constituencies by checking that these documents are indeed getting to the schools and to the teachers and are not stored in the principal’s office or in some district office.

If there are any difficulties and schools seem not to have received them, I invite you to contact my office directly so that the matter can be investigated and in fact dealt with. We cannot afford to have any schools without the right documents because this time we are very deliberate in how we are introducing a curriculum statement that can last this country from 40 to 50 years.

To prepare our foundation phase teachers for next year, we have appointed a core team of 20 people - academics, members of nongovernmental organisations and departmental officials - who are currently providing training to our curriculum officials. These are provincial and district- based subject advisory staff, who must lead the implementation process in their areas. Similar training will be given to school principals.

The Government’s going to spend over R240 million, every year, to bolster up and maintain the administrative capacity of our schools. So we would have spent, in the last three or four years, about half a billion rand. Now, this is delivery; this is change. It’s undramatic; it doesn’t get onto the front page of newspapers, but it’s having an enormous effect. Now these will also be expected to provide instructional leadership to teachers in their schools in each instance. The teacher guide, which I have referred to already, will form the basis of the training. The message will be consistent throughout the country.

In respect of early childhood development - and I’m not repeating what I said last year about other areas - we’ve started a process to roll out the implementation of Grade R, the school reception year. I am pleased to report that we are on schedule with this process and to date more than 200 000 children are now enrolled in Grade R at schools and community facilities around the country. This should increase by 10% to 20% each year over the next six or seven years. By 2010, as we promised, we expect the full complement of approximately 1 million Grade R pupils will be catered for, thus fulfilling our promise of 10 years of compulsory education.

I am pleased to report that at present thousands of Grade R kits are being distributed around the country and the training and upgrading of 4 500 practitioners in all provinces is about to commence.

One of the most significant investigations carried out by the Department of Education to date has been the Review of the Financing, Resourcing and Costs of Education in Public Schools study, which will next week be considered by the Cabinet. It was this morning enthusiastically received by a joint Cabinet committee and next week it will go to the Cabinet.

The report identified, firstly, key ways in which we could enhance the system more or less within the current budget and, secondly, where budgetary shifts are vital for improving the situation in our public schools. The most important and crucial intervention arising from the review is the implementation of a national poverty-targeting framework. Currently, nonpersonnel recurrent allocations are distributed according to provincial poverty-targeting lists, the result of which is that the poorest 20% of learners in a particular province may not be at the same level of poverty as the poorest 20% of learners in another province.

I have before me a table prepared by my department which shows that in the Eastern Cape 60% of the children are in the poorest percentile - not 20%. In the Western Cape it’s 4%. It’s 4% in the Western Cape. The funding formula that treats unlike as like results in increasing pauperisation, increasing poverty and increasing alienation. So we want a framework. Provincial departments would then develop a provincial resource targeting list by ranking schools according to the poverty of the communities around the school. Provinces then would allocate a normed per-learner amount for nonpersonnel recurrent school expenditure according to the national poverty groupings.

In other words, there would be a national norm, whether the child is in Ingwavuma or Tzaneen or Port Nolloth. And the national norm will take into account the poverty of the community around them. We estimate that no child should be attending school unless there is a target allocation of about R450 per child. Of course, that’s the poorest one. We hope it will increase next year and the year after that, and then of course the maximum figure will be about R740.

In the present situation there are children obtaining, say in Gauteng, R450 per child and in another province R50 per child. We cannot tolerate this in a democratic society. There is no equity; whatever our constitutional arrangements, we cannot in fact tolerate this kind of thing.

In addition, during 2003 a system of post provisioning for schools was introduced that takes into account the relative level of poverty of a school. This was aimed at ensuring that learners who come from a particularly poor background have the benefit of smaller classes. That’s important. Poverty is regarded as a barrier to learning and the provision of smaller classes to these learners is aimed at compensating for the barrier. The post provisioning policy makes provision for the top-slicing by a department of a maximum of 5% of its total pool of posts and allocating these top-sliced posts to schools in accordance with their relative levels of poverty.

For 2003, the various provincial departments have effected top-slices of between 2% and 5%, resulting in a total shift of approximately 3 000 posts

• not yet 5% - throughout the country to the poorer schools. This means that the governing bodies and the principals can now say: We’ll now have, for the first time, an art teacher; an art teacher teaching history also. For the first time we can have a music teacher who can teach mathematics at the same time. Or we’ll have two mathematics teachers for the first time. But we’re only moving towards 5% biased in favour. Now that’s delivery, Madam Chairperson.

We have also paid attention to the improvement of school infrastructure with Government’s commitment to extensive increases in education capital budgets. The provincial education capital budget was R2,1 billion in the 2002-03 financial year, which has increased to R2,5 billion in 2003-04 and is estimated to increase to R3,2 billion in 2004-05.

Remember, there is R100 billion allocated in the budget for infrastructure development. I’m going to ask all the provincial MECs and the heads of departments to ensure that we put in our claim for that so that at the end of this MTEF period no child will have to learn in dangerous schools, in dangerous mud schools and in overheated schools anymore. And of course, it is up to the provinces to tell me whether there are children learning under trees. And I will not take an answer to the effect that there are no children learning under trees, because we learn from newspapers that there are children learning under trees. The money is there now. Let’s have your commitment and your information so that we can go ahead. [Applause.]

So, emphasis on classrooom and infrastructure provision has reduced classroom backlogs to such an extent that the problem of educators without classrooms has been considerably reduced. It has not been abolished, as I found, when there are children in Port Elizabeth who are not attending school because there is no place for them in those schools this year. I am pleased to announce that 3 750 classrooms were built by provincial departments of education during 2002 and 2003 in an attempt to eliminate situations in which students were learning under dangerous conditions, in the open air or in overcrowded and unacceptable structures.

An estimated total of 12 828 classrooms will be built in the period 2002-03 to 2004-05. At the end of the current MTEF period, the classroom backlog is estimated to drop to 30 000 from a recorded shortage of 65 000 in 1996. So, in six to seven years we have halved the shortage of classrooms.

Nationally, 1 034 schools were electrified during the current financial year by October 2002. The allocation of R59 million to Eskom in 2002-03 for the Schools and Clinics Electrification Programme has been increased to R101 million next year to further accelerate the electrification of schools and clinics. Well, again we’ve delivered.

Other infrastructure elements such as water, toilets and sanitation, textbooks and telecommunications and IT infrastructure have been expanded to ensure that learners, nine years after the democratic transition in our country, have access to more services at school than ever before.

When I became the Minister of Education four and a half years ago, we allocated R350 million for learning material. This year it will be R2 billion for learning material. Once again it’s for the provinces to ensure that at the end of this year every school - 27 000 schools, after all - will have their learning materials. We are trying now to co-ordinate this nationally, so that the poor publishers don’t have to depend on a junior official telling them in November we want so many textbooks for this purpose or the other.

Children cannot learn on an empty stomach. As you may be aware, the Primary Schools Nutrition Programme is an important element of the strategy to combat poverty. This year it has increased to R800 million and next year it will be R1 billion. It will be transferred from the Department of Health to the Department of Education during 2004. Preparations for this transfer began in 2002, and we are confident that Government will be in a position to move closer to its target of providing nutritious lunches to all poor learners on every school day of the year. During 2004 we intend to realise our target of providing a nutritious meal to 20% of learners on a pro-poor basis on every school day.

Of course we will soon set up a mechanism whereby schools will be able to apply for funding to provide lunches for learners in schools not fully covered in the programme. Again, I ask my comrades and colleagues in the provinces. Eligibility for poverty-based grants will be used as a criterion for eligibility for publicly funded lunches. We’re working closely with social development. This is called joined-up Government and we’re doing it. Can I appeal to the MECs and the provinces to ensure that they work out now

• for they’ll be implementing this - the programme to target the poorest in each province. I don’t wish to go to Ingwavuma as I did last year. Ingwavuma is one of the poorest parts of South Africa and there hadn’t been a school feeding scheme in Ingwavuma for months and months.

There have been one hundred and ninety-six days of proper nutrition. May I celebrate a remarkable headmistress from Atteridgeville who says it is not enough to give peanut butter and white bread. She has now grown a garden with the mamas around the school. The children get a hot meal prepared by these mamas and the principal. This is the new South Africa. [Applause.] We want that replicated. We’re waiting on the World Health Organisation to work out how we can get school gardens so that they can supplement the nutrition provided by the state.

Let us now turn quickly to further education and training, and for the first time in this Council we will actually be talking about further education and training in detail. In the latter part of last year I declared 2003 the year of further education and training and therefore I will deal with this element of our mandate in somewhat more detail. This was aimed at enhancing the FET band in general and the FET college sector in particular.

In October last year I released the draft National Curriculum Statement for Grades 10-12 for public comment. Public comments were incorporated into the National Curriculum Statement which we are considering. On 14 February 2003 I announced that the new National Curriculum Statement for Grades 10-12 would be implemented in Grade 10 in 2006. I indicated, and I should like to repeat in this Council, that the new curriculum can only be implemented if there is adequate preparation of teachers, and learning and teaching support materials, including quality textbooks. If we don’t have that - and my director-general is here - we are not proceeding with the implementation for Grade 10 in 2006.

Provincial departments of education have a crucial role to play in the implementation of the National Curriculum Statement. While the national Department of Education will give guidance in terms of how best we can prepare for implementation, the primary role of preparing for and implementing the curriculum rests with the provinces. Forgive me if I concentrate on an area that has long required our attention and which is vital for the development of our human resource capacity.

On 15 may 2003 I launched the 50 new public further education and training colleges. I said at the launch that the FET colleges have been the Cinderella of our education and training system. There was no midnight for them when they could change themselves. This situation obviously could not continue if we are to develop the colleges into modern institutions which meet the demands of a postapartheid society in the 21st century.

The setting up of management structures is proceeding in all 50 colleges. College principals have been appointed at all colleges in six provinces and the process will shortly be completed in the other three provinces. And they will be called chief executive officers, not principals. The appointment of 157 college senior managers is proceeding as planned, because we want good administration. If Batho Pele is to mean anything then we must have good trained managers.

In the last quarter of this year colleges will be busy with the completion of the restructuring process with the development of new organograms. And I hope we don’t take the organogram in the office of the premier in the Eastern Cape. Staff will be absorbed into the new college structures, based on Resolution 7 of 2002 of the Public Service Bargaining Council.

The Department of Education, through our private sector partners, is currently running a series of training programmes directed at the colleges in each province. These are aimed at establishing the basic capacity to handle change management, curriculum development - because it is a brand- new curriculum for these technical colleges - strategic planning and quality assurance. Nothing but the best is good enough for the intermediate education which we are now totally renewing.

My department is currently working on determining the resource requirements for the FET college sector. We have engaged provinces in discussions on a possible adjustment of per capita allocations for a new funding formula. This will facilitate an effective handover of accountability and responsibility to the new principals as required by the Public Finance Management Act.

Currently the FET college sector is allocated only 2% in provincial education budgets. I have set, together with the Council of Education Ministers, a target to double this figure in five years. We have also targeted efficiency gains of 5% each year as well as an annual 5% increase in student enrolments, which we have now already exceeded by this year.

So the FET college sector has to expand its learning programmes and qualifications. Such an expansion will largely come from demand-led courses. Currently we have 208 Seta-related courses in 29 of our colleges, with over 2 000 learners enrolled in them, which again is a big change. We have begun with the implementation of a strategy to phase out the old college curricula. A new qualifications policy framework will establish college clusters across the various organising fields of the National Curriculum Framework. It will also put into place a mechanism for the new colleges to begin developing and delivering responsive and relevant vocational qualifications and programmes.

Last week I went to four or five of the colleges in the Gauteng area with their subdivisions. It is remarkable that Randburg College, which was exclusively a white organisation prior to 1994, is working hand in glove with Alexandra College and sharing the facilities. This is a new development in South Africa. Separated by a national highway which created two distinct colleges, one highly privileged and one less privileged, they are now working together and black students are doing art courses and white students are doing herb extract courses provided by Alexandra. These are the kinds of new South African establishments we want. This is a new way of doing things and is of course deracialising our institutions at the same time.

So institutional programme niches have been identified and linked to the MTEF through the current strategic planning processes. There will be great innovation and co-operation, and provinces will play an important role in identifying further innovative programmes which would address the social and economic needs of specific regions in the provinces. In addition, these colleges will work very closely with business, because the needs of locality logistics differ from one part of South Africa to another. I am very grateful to Business SA, through the national business initiative, for putting in R100 million into the reorganisation of these technical colleges and the training of more than 150 managers who were sent overseas to come back to South Africa to administer these institutions.

So, alongside the developments I have mentioned above, the phasing in of a new information system is under way. To assist colleges which do not have the minimum information technology base to supply the system with data, a R50 000 grant is available to establish such a base. And so we have urgent priorities to look at next year.

For the first time we want student support services, including student financial aid, at the technical colleges. We want the provinces to renew the bursaries they had before 1994, because for some odd reason many of them have disappeared. We are thinking nationally: Can the National Student Financial Aid Scheme for higher education be used for technical colleges?

About 123 000 full-time students are at technical colleges, but 600 000 have higher education. It should be the other way around. We should have, proportionately, 1 million in further education and training. That’s the intermediate skills base for South Africa. But our snobbery of looking down on any kind of work done with the hands, brings us down. There was a wonderful old man with a big beard in 1848, who wrote a famous book, that people have forgotten nowadays but that remains relevant. He said the worst thing a bourgeois society can do is to separate working with one’s hands and working with one’s brain. The ingqondo [mind] must come together with the hands. And we must bring back into our system respect for work of that type, also because there is more money in that. To be a plumber today means one could earn, in five or six years’ time, more money, certainly, than a Minister can manage.

And so we will have the public-private partnerships for technical colleges and I hope the provinces will expedite these issues with all the vigour they deserve. Of course they have worked enormously well. Where there has been tension with 152 colleges reduced to 50, without everybody taking the front page of the newspaper saying autonomy has been destroyed, our work has been destroyed. They all know now that we can have the beginnings of a college system of technical education for our children for the first time. Now that’s because the ANC-led Government took the initiative to do that and sat on vested interests. We have to sit on vested interests, otherwise the courage, the resilience, the tenacity which came from the ANC policy formulation would be wasted. Nobody else could have done this as the ANC Government did.

Let me turn to topical issues very quickly. I have been surprised by the reaction from some quarters to our draft Religion in Education policy, partly because so much public comment has been based on misinformation, malice and hearsay and partly because there are clearly people who do not understand and recognise the enormous diversity of our country, and more so the religious diversity of our country.

I met with the National Religious Leaders Forum late last week. It was a wonderful meeting where we discussed the draft policy. We had a most congenial and open exchange of views in which there was a general meeting of minds in respect of the various issues. So I agreed with them that there would be further discussions, not necessarily in person, when the finalised policy comes out. They want to be involved in the implementation at schools of the curriculum aspects of religion in education, which you know is already being implemented from Grades R to 9.

The religious community themselves indicated that they were encouraged - Bishop Mdladlana wrote to me yesterday - by a greater sense of openness and transparency and their increased involvement in the consultation process.

In respect of another issue: There has been some comment in the press, especially in the Western Cape, about the draft amendment to the South African Schools Act regarding additional remuneration paid by school governing bodies to teachers employed in terms of the Employment of Educators Act. This is in reply to those posts created by the school governing body. Regrettably, the outcry from certain quarters failed to realise that this was not something new. Already teachers have been regulated in terms of the earning of additional remuneration since 1998. All the amendment is trying to achieve is to align the two Acts to place as much responsibility on the school governing bodies as on the teachers. At present the responsibility is on the teachers.

We are currently looking at the various submissions we have received and next week I will be putting a proposal to the Council of Education Ministers based on the representations we have received. My primary concern is to have a system that is just, and that functions effectively, efficiently and fairly.

There was a suggestion in the press that I would back off the legislation, somehow change my mind or reverse the decision. I see that the New NP has had a conference on religion in education and it says in The Argus that the national Government is backtracking - whatever that means - on religious observance at schools. The school governing bodies will be able to do this and the Government therefore is in fact rejecting its earlier proposals. This is not how we work. This is really a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario.

The whole idea of broad-based consultation with the public and relevant role-players - something I have employed extensively during my term in office - is to seek ideas about how our various proposals can be improved and implemented. Yet, if we don’t take into account the submissions we received we are accused of being headstrong or trying to centralise everything, which I see in The Citizen, which has become an organ for the DA. The DA leader has said we want to take over all the parts. But when we do take the view into consideration we are regarded as backing down. Well, truth be told, we consult out of confidence. Those who don’t have self- confidence don’t consult; they just do what they want to do. Truth be told, I do not worry about either of these allegations, as long as we get it right in the final analysis.

We represent the broad spectrum of our people. We represent the broadest constituency of a very broad church, which does not take into account sectoral and sectarian interest of the type we’re talking about.

Notwithstanding the need for some changes to legislation, our country has a system of school governance that is the envy of many countries. Our school governing bodies allow for greater participation in the life of the schools by all sectors of school communities. We are proud to say that this is the third round of elections and I hope public representatives will be closely involved in assisting schools, particularly in the rural areas, to hold their elections.

The South African Schools Act deals with the regulations and powers of the school governing body to make decisions in respect of policies such as school fees, school development plans, school policy, language policy, educator appointments and the custodianship of school moneys. Recently I appointed a team of independent persons to review our school governing system - every structure we have set. Suddenly now people think that they invented the school governing body. It was Blade Nzimande and my predecessor, the Minister of Education, and the ANC who insisted on local self-governance. We will not take any lessons from anyone who thinks that we want to restrict the school governing bodies. They are our creation, and we are very proud of this.

This review now, on the other hand, is inspired by concerns that some of our school governing bodies are operating outside the spirit - and possibly the letter - of our Constitution, by denying many students access to schooling often by using money and language as a barrier to admission. Others are not managing their financial affairs in accordance with the regulations, like the infamous case in Ermelo when they gave huge gifts to the principal of services and groceries, and other forms of assistance. They are not living within the space that the school governing body and the parents must run the finances. If there are these blemishes, we shall deal with them.

So in reviewing our school governing bodies we need to think laterally and also learn from the best practice of other countries. We need to consider, for example, the advisability of circuit-wide or district-wide school governing bodies. One might even consider the formal involvement of local government in our school governance. And why not? At another level of management my Ministry has prioritised the establishment of the development education districts. Districts have a crucial role to play in the delivery of education services, because they are close to schools and FET colleges. They are best placed to monitor and support what happens at schools and colleges.

I am certain, after my visits to other countries, that many of our district officers are less than satisfactory in their operations. They don’t know the law. They don’t know the practice. They often don’t know what is happening in the schools, as I found out when I went to the Eastern Cape. The children had dismissed two principals, who were women, and the district official didn’t know about it. I promptly said that they couldn’t do it. One of the women in Dimbaza, which has an emotional resonance for me - we made a film in exile - was kicked out of the Western Cape at the age of 12, put on a train and sent to Dimbaza. She is now the acting principal. The kids had the cheek to dismiss her predecessor.

So, district officials now have to be trained, educated and as the President has said, if they can’t perform their functions, they must be kicked out. They must be dismissed. The district officials are the heart of our education system. So, the limitations placed there are very serious.

I have noticed with concern the recent media reports on what is seen as declining safety and security in our schools. Several instances of intimidation, harassment, stabbing and shooting have been reported. I am very pleased to say that all provinces now have a first-class programme of safety in schools, and they are implementing these programmes, some provinces better than others.

It is vital that the community has a sense that they must be behind the schools. You can’t make schools fortresses as they have done in the United States. There are still serial killings in the United States, even though they have fortresses and they have gun checks and things like that. You can’t do that. A school must have a sense of solidarity with other schools, with the community. There must be active involvement.

What we must do, on the other hand, is to take precautions. I am pleased to announce that over the last four or five years, thousands of schools have been fenced, which is a very important development. Fencing is vital to keep people away from the school who go there randomly to interfere with the school. We can’t adopt overzealous methods. We can’t, in fact, do the kinds of things other countries have done, which I reject.

I end by referring to one issue, namely HIV/Aids. Over the past years, the education response to HIV/Aids has gained momentum. Education has assumed its role at the heart of the national response to HIV/Aids. You may have read the Mandela Foundation and the HSRC report in which it’s quite clearly said that 84% of those aged between 12 and 24 learnt about HIV/Aids from schools. Interestingly enough, about 12% of those between 50 and 65 also learnt about HIV/Aids from schools. Obviously, it’s working down through the children. There is evidence that our efforts are bearing fruit. We have reason to be optimistic.

Overall, we must continue to promote and celebrate excellence in our schools. The excellence of our schools as displayed in the matric results is not limited to the leafy suburbs of South Africa. Some of the best- performing schools in terms of matriculation exemptions came from very poor township areas and rural areas. Some of the rural schools have won scientific awards, which is really remarkable. Therefore, when we talk about excellence, we should not limit our horizons. So, we want to promote excellence in the townships and rural schools, the inner city areas and the leafy suburbs of South Africa. Let’s make a commitment that when we celebrate excellence, we also ensure that our brightest children are identified and therefore receive the special support they need. That is why outcomes-based education, by collective work, will ensure that we are able to identify brighter children in mathematics and science and history, so that we can give them special attention for further education.

With our newly implemented Whole School Evaluation and Development Appraisal Systems, we will have a good sense of where the real quality is and where there is a need for improvement. You will be surprised when we begin to tell you where the real quality in South Africa can often be identified.

Let me say that I am pleased to report that, with a few exceptions, there is excellent and on the most part voluntary compliance with the principles of co-operative governance. In this respect, I would particularly like to thank my provincial colleagues and their departments for the work they are doing. Very occasionally, they don’t reply to letters. Every now and then Ministers write to them to get an answer to a query, but a reply doesn’t come. So, the replies don’t only not come from provincial district officials, sometimes they don’t come from the very top.

We must change that if Batho Pele is not to remain a kind of empty, sterile slogan. There is hard work taking place. Changes that are taking place are of a remarkable nature. I hope, when you intervene, you will take an overview of South Africa, because there are 27 000 schools. You can always find a pathology here, a blemish there and a scandal elsewhere. There are 27 000 schools. You and I are the guardians of the improvement. So, through our combined efforts, we are making a positive difference in the lives of South Africans, both in terms of providing the skills needed for the development of our country and also in fighting the scourges of poverty and despair and holding out hope which, in our democratic society, is the most important form of celebrating our freedom. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr D M KGWARE: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, hon members and special delegates, officials from the Department of Education, distinguished guests, we would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Ministry of Education, the Department of Education and the sponsors of Takalani Sesame, on the award this educational television series received in an international competition in Hamburg last month. As far as we could establish, this is the highest media award for this kind of programme. It is certainly a tribute to our efforts as a country to educate our young people about the benefits of our diverse cultures.

A decade ago, we started the arduous journey to create a society based on the universal principles of democracy, equality and the restoration of the dignity of the overwhelming majority of our citizens. In doing so, we have, as one of our key objectives, committed ourselves unconditionally to the fundamental transformation of our country’s fragmented and diabolically skewed education system. During these years, we steadfastly refused to be swayed by delusory objections from those who want to see privilege entrenched and not equalised. We have become accustomed to being castigated and not complimented. We have falsely been accused of being obsessed with power and not imbued with it.

Not so long ago, President Thabo Mbeki, in his state of the nation address, reminded us of the solid basis we have laid in advancing our goal of creating a better life for all. More importantly and central to this, the related objectives around eradicating poverty have been achieved. We are indeed proud to announce to the nation and those present here today that there can be no comparison between what we have achieved over the last decade and the position prior to the ANC coming to power in 1994. The resounding endorsement of the electorate in 1999 is irrefutable proof of our commitment to pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

We have done so with the collective support of teachers, parents, learners and civil society organisations. Our education system, particularly general education and training, is now better positioned to respond to the developmental, cognitive and behavioural challenges of our learners in this band.

True to the character and ethos of the ANC, we will not for one moment deny that much more needs to be done to address the historic inequalities, as these continue to manifest themselves in both rural and urban schools. However, we have identified our priorities and remain confident that our approach is the correct one. So let us dwell on these priorities because the ANC embraces perspective and those in the opposition benches, an adjective.

We are indeed proud to announce today that after an initial inclement reception, common sense has prevailed and we have weathered the storms that threatened the mergers of our institutions of higher learning. We have now graduated to the implementation phase. What is especially significant from a provincial perspective is the opening of two national institutions of higher learning in the Northern Cape and Mpumalanga provinces next year. These are the only provinces which have historically been deprived of institutions of this kind. As the ANC, we appreciate the Minister’s commitment to these national projects, especially in the context of the critically important matter of our human resource development strategy.

Furthermore, we are looking forward to the successful implementation of the revised national curriculum for Grade 9 from 2004. Whilst the South African Constitution provides the basis for curriculum transformation and development in South Africa, inequality and poverty are, as we have said earlier, still pervasive in our schools. The preamble states quite clearly that it aims to heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights.

It also seeks to improve the quality of life of all citizens and free the potential of each person. It seeks to lay the foundations for a democratic and open society in which Government is based on the will of the people and every citizen is equally protected by the law. In addition, the manifesto on values, education and democracy released in 2001 identifies some fundamental values of the Constitution. These are democracy, social justice and equity, nonracism, ubuntu, an open society, responsibility, respect and other strategies for familiarising young South Africans with the Constitution.

It is precisely these strategies that find expression in the revised curriculum statement, which includes nurturing a culture of communication and participation.

The question of role modelling promotes commitment as well as competence amongst educators. It also ensures that every South African is able to read and write. It infuses the classroom with a culture of human rights. It seeks to make arts and culture part of the curriculum. It puts history back in the curriculum. It enjoins us to learn about the rich diversity of cultures, beliefs and world views within which the unity of our country is manifested. It promotes multilingualism and equal access. It frees the potential of girls as well as boys. It also promotes ethics and the environment and nurturing the new patriotism.

The challenge of the Revised National Curriculum Statement is how these noble but imperative values would be interwoven across the curriculum. But, we must be realistic about what a curriculum can and cannot achieve because it would obviously be enacted and interpreted in diverse contexts. As we are assembled here, there are already little tremors of anxiety amongst some in our educator corps. As a Government which understands these anxieties, the ANC-led Government also encountered anxieties of its own not so long ago. We wish to make a clarion call on all who work in education to put shoulder to the wheel to ensure that we transcend this.

Other priorities in general education and training include the roll-out of the Early Childhood Development programme, as envisaged in White Paper 5, which is currently under way in all nine provinces. As the ECD is still in its infancy, we are confident that given our progressive experiences in terms of funding which is governed by the Division of Revenue Act, the provision of learner support material such as training, monitoring and support systems, is on track to meet our targets in community-based sites as well as in schools. Moreover, we will support the expansion of the provision of ECD services to children from birth to three years old.

Furthermore, our obligation extends to the implementation of White Paper 6 on Special Needs Education. This will include establishing at least 30 full- service schools during the course of this year. We also wish to compliment the Department of Education on their efforts in developing a framework for teacher education. A three-person ministerial committee has been appointed to oversee this process. Our commitment to improving the management of governance of schools, which leaves a lot to be desired, is given further impetus with a campaign by the department to reinforce active community participation in the education of their children and get people to stand and vote in the coming school governing body elections.

In conclusion, during its long apartheid-induced absence the ANC remained the ultimate torchbearer of the ideals and aspirations of the oppressed majority in this country. It is against this solid landscape brought about by social engineering that the budget before us today seeks to address and expand on critical problems in education. At the same time, it seeks to ensure increased access, equity and enhanced effeciency. Therefore, we are calling on our social partners to remain vigilant and ensure the consolidation of our gains. The tide has indeed turned.

Mr D A KGANARE: Chairperson, the purpose of this debate is to discuss the Education Vote so that we can make sure that money allocated to us is used to implement Government policy and to contribute towards pushing back the frontiers of poverty. We have to utilize our budget allocations to find solutions that will ultimately create a better life for all South Africans.

Education plays a vital role in allowing us to achieve these objectives, and to create permanent solutions by turning job-seekers into job-creators and making the unemployed, employable. This is the core of the holistic development of our children and poverty alleviation in our province. In our province we are taking up the cudgels to combat HIV/Aids, hence we established an HIV/Aids workplace unit co-ordinated at provincial level.

Its objectives are to create a safe, open and supportive environment for people living with HIV/Aids; support and care for employees infected and affected by the pandemic and prevent the further spread of this and other infectious diseases. We believe that the realisation of these objectives will increase productivity, reduce absenteeism and prolong the lives of those infected. In spite of staff constraints and the indifference of some employees, the unit is succeeding in changing mind sets. HIV/Aids is now regarded as our problem, not theirs.

The problem of orphans is a reality in all schools that impacts on the financial capacity of schools as well as on learners at an emotional level. In the Free State we have identified approximately 22 000 orphans, and have the names and addresses of more than 15 000. As a result we took a decision to ensure that all these learners are exempted from paying school fees. We are formalising the process of assisting their schools and we will be working closely with the Department of Social Development in this regard.

We are faced with the necessity of sustaining the momentum of our improved Grade 12 results over the last number of years, particularly those of 2002 when our results were above the national average. Our target for the 2003 Grade 12 results is an average pass rate of 75% with 20% exemptions, and to be above the national average.

Whilst we are happy that the matric percentage pass rate has increased, I am worried that some schools, that want to achieve 100% at all costs, are forcing learners to write Grade 12 subjects on standard grade, reducing the quality of the passes. Other schools are gatekeeping, that is holding back learners in Grade 11 to ensure that only guaranteed passes in Grade 12 are promoted. We are dealing with this particular situation. Improving the examination results of dysfunctional and failing schools presented us with a really difficult situation. But to assist such schools we developed and implemented a holistic intervention programme, to ensure the sustainability of effective teaching, learning and management at schools that performed well and to ensure continuous assistance to those that did not. Mentors were redeployed to such schools.

From April new mentors were assigned to newly identified failing schools. We are compiling a database of all educators in excess and those who are unemployed. Qualified educators strategised their usefulness through reskilling, which will be aligned to labour demands, thus contributing to resolving the problem of unemployment.

School governing bodies are functioning at all schools in the province. Elections for new SGBs will take place during this month and July. During April the department trained electoral officers, and in August the newly elected SGBs will be trained. As the Department of Education we are ultimately involved in all aspects of learning and not just at school level. In order to encourage life-long learning, the acquisition of skills and making citizens employable, we have embarked on a process of awarding bursaries to employees and potential employees.

Potential new employees are selected from the pool of successful Grade 12 learners who excelled despite their socioeconomic conditions. They are offered bursaries in the subjects where there are shortages, such as physical science, mathematics, biology, computer and information science, information technology, physical education and educational psychology. There are currently 222 new entrants being supported during this financial year. Employees who should receive bursaries are prioritised according to the strategic objectives of the department as reflected in the strategic plan and the skills gaps identified in the teaching corps. In order to support the delivery of quality classroom practice and the objectives of the strategic plan, the following priorities are to be addressed in this financial year, regarding 3 413 departmental employees who have been given bursaries.

In addition, the department is supporting 2 666 employees in their second or third year of study. To ensure the effective implementation of the restructuring process, we have established four Mega FET colleges with multi-campuses. Chief executive officers of the FET colleges will be appointed during the next two months. We have recruited learners for learnerships and purchased high-tech equipment for the effective provision of learnerships and skills programmes for out-of-school use, ie for adults, women, people with disabilities and the unemployed. At all FET colleges teaching and learning, student support services, quality assurance, management information systems and administration and finance are emphasised. As a response to these needs, the subdirectorate FET colleges embarked on capacity-building workshops with the assistance of Tirisano fellows who participated in the international exchange programme in the United Kingdom for three months. The link between further education and training and other basic education and training provision is essential. To generate skills and literate citizens, FET and Abet centres are going to form a vigorous parnership by offering learnerships in SMMEs and agriculture to alleviate poverty and curb unemployment. The core focus for FET colleges and Abet is the realisation of this aspiration in the near future. The roles of FET colleges and Abet centres are crucial in providing education and proper skilling opportunities for our people, so that they can become employable and thus regain their human dignity. Our department is tasked with the responsibility of preparing and nurturing the future South Africa.

A future South Africa that can compete in a global world; a South Africa that will be an intrinsic part of the digital society - by adequately preparing our learners for the challenges of the 21st century.

The fact that most of our province is rural presents real challenges for the ongoing implementation of our information, communication and technology plan. Our strategies therefore need to take us beyond the mere provision of computers for administration. We are going to incorporate the highest levels of ICT technologies to deliver education, and especially E- education, to our province. We are currently engaged in a number of partnerships with the corporate sector. Key amongst them is Telkom in a joint initiative with Thintana, expanding the concept of super centres. The department has now taken over these centres. A number of organisations have individually and collectively contributed basic technological equipment to our institutions. But the total figure for schools with access to computer centres for curriculum delivery is still only 8,6% of all our schools.

This demonstrates that we still have a long way to go to eliminate the digital divide. The roll-out of computers to schools started in the 2001-02 financial year and is proceeding. In terms of the norms and standards of public funding for schools, the Department of Education is obliged to subsidise learners who take longer than an hour and a half to walk to the nearest school. According to our investigation, the longest walking distance is 23km for a single trip to school. A committee has been established to investigate that matter and formulate a proposal. It is planned that this proposal will be put into operation during the financial year of 2004-05 and be implemented in phases. The first phase will include those learners who walk the greatest distance.

In line with our approach to handling this particular matter, we have developed a farm school rationalisation strategy whereby learners from farm schools who travel long distances are put in hostels where the department has to pay for them. We already have three hostels operating in our province and two will be introduced during this financial year. Our nutrition programme run in collaboration with the Departments of Social Development, Agriculture and Health, demonstrates the social security network. At the moment the nutrition programme is run by the Department of Health. But the attitude that it should affect all learners in a particular grade is wrong because there are certain schools which have parents who are doing better than others. And we have decided to identify schools which are really poor so that we can be able to extend this particular need from Grade 1 to Grade 9.

In 1994 there was a backlog of 165 school buildings in the Free State province. And as I am talking to you now, we only have 67. It is a standing principle to prioritise the building of schools where the need is greatest. Informal settlements, for example, are some of the pressure points. However, as learner numbers in our province continue to dwindle, we have to reprioritise school building sites. Decisions are informed by demographic patterns and statistics that show where learner numbers are declining and empty classrooms subsequently increasing. So, too, platooning schools that are individually nonviable are merged.

A 2002 survey conducted by the Free State Department of Education shows that almost 2 000 empty classrooms did not justify building schools according to our original three-year plan. To provide infrastructure effectively, we will put in place a more integrated infrastructural development plan, which will be reviewed annually.

Mr C N M PADAYACHEE (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon delegates, ladies and gentlemen, comrades, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to speak on this Education Vote of our country. The Mpumalanga Department of Education is a department that continuously and progressively strives towards bringing quality education to all our people in the province. We commit ourselves to the conviction that it is only through education that our minds will be liberated, proper values instilled in society and our people skilled. This is the unavoidable route towards the creation of a nation that is patriotic and committed. It is the right direction towards the realisation of a better life for all.

In Mpumalanga all our strategies and energies are directed towards making all our schools run effectively and efficiently and I want to just highlight a few issues as outlined by the Minister, particularly with regard to the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review for 2002-03.

But before I do that, in 2002 I instituted an assessment committee to investigate reasons for the poor matric results in our province in 2001. This committee made recommendations on why the results deteriorated. The department did not hesitate to implement the recommendations and today I attribute the 9% improvement in the 2002 Grade 12 results to this initiative as well as a number of intervention programmes undertaken by the department. Constant support visits by circuit managers, curriculum implementors, regional teams, national teams and even the provincial executive council to schools is an endeavour to ensure school effectiveness and an improvement in results, not only at Grade 12, but from Grade R to Grade 12. Endless capacity-building programmes to empower all role-players are the order of the day in the province.

The delivery of learner support material before the end of each school year has enhanced our school effectiveness programme. Last year in the 2002-03 budget, we spent R112 million on learner support material. This year it has increased to R241 million. Last week Friday I visited the learner support warehouse where all the textbooks and the stationery are kept to verify a report from my HOD that textbooks and stationery for the beginning of the 2004 school year have already been ordered, received from publishers and distributed to schools. Indeed this was the case. Schools in the KwaMhlanga, Moretele, and Witbank areas have already received their stationery for next year and as I speak now delivery is taking place.

Also worth mentioning is that our expenditure per learner on learner support material has increased drastically over the past three years from R54 per learner in the year 2000 to R235 in the year 2002 and R267 this year. This represents an increase of more than 393% over the past three years. And indeed, as the review shows, it is the highest spent in the country. Over the past three years the province has spent more than half a billion rand on learner support material. However, much still needs to be done on the retrieval of textbooks in our schools and to alleviate this problem we have introduced a system in the last month to help schools begin to retrieve these textbooks.

As in many other provinces, many of our children on farms have to walk more than 4 km to the nearest schools, a problem we dealt with by introducing scholar transport in 1997 whereby we transported 3 200 learners at a cost of more than R3 million. Over the years this has increased drastically with 4 400 learners being transported at a cost of R8,8 million in 2000 to 23 981 learners at a cost of more than R40 million this year. This represents an increase of more than 307% over the past three years.

In 2002 R3,7 million was budgeted for early childhood development. Today I am proud to indicate to this House that R31,6 million has been budgeted for ECD this year. This represents an increase of more than R27,9 million. To make sure that this programme is expanded, a total of 715 sites have been catered for in this year’s budget, compared to 250 sites provided for last year. And therefore, as Minister Asmal has said, we are on target so that by the year 2010 ECD will be part of the 10-year compulsory education system. Children would come to Grade 1 more prepared and this would reduce the repetition rate throughout our whole schooling system.

The inclusive education pilot programme is going on well in the pilot schools. It is pleasing to note that all pilot schools have been provided with computers and to date 280 classroom-based educators and 55 curriculum implementors and circuit managers have been trained in inclusive education. In our endeavour to introduce ICT and e-education to all our schools in the province, we have budgeted R13,7 million to purchase at least one computer for every school with electricity. Our commitment is clear that by the end of this year every school that has electricity will have computers. Last year 500 schools which did not have any computers were supplied with one.

As our hon premier said in his provincial address on 21 February this year, the Department of Education has managed to exceed its own target in the schools infrastructure development programme by building 428 classrooms, 28 special rooms, 29 administration blocks and 208 toilets, and 15 schools were renovated from our equitable share to the tune of R61 million in the past financial year. Furthermore, 36 schools were furnished, an additional 362 toilets were built, 82 schools were renovated and 14 water connections were made from the conditional grants of R47,5 million. Lastly, an additional 51 schools were also renovated from the flood-damage funds at a cost of R15 million. In this financial year we have planned to build 685 classrooms, 16 special rooms, 14 administration blocks and 982 toilets worth R113,25 million from the equitable share. The building of these have already begun.

From the conditional grants that we received - an amount of R71 million - we will renovate 88 schools, build a further 638 toilets, fence 57 schools, connect electricity to 83 schools and supply water to 96 schools. From a Japanese donation funding, we will be building an additional 232 classrooms, 20 administration blocks, 4 special rooms, and 248 toilets, and for this funding we must thank the Minister of Education for assisting us in this regard. The department has also set aside an amount of R11,2 million within the infrastructure development allocation for youth contractors. This is a huge empowerment initiative which is not a once-off. The department will strive to have such job creation initiatives also in the coming year.

The Mpumalanga regional training task team will indeed help to build capacity and assist these emerging contractors in providing quality workmanship. From the above, one will deduce that over the past year we have doubled our efforts to reduce the classroom backlog, from building 428 classrooms in the year 2000 to building 917 classrooms this year. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms N P KHUNOU: Hon Minister and hon members, information is power, it brings knowledge to life. It is empowerment as it awakens the alignment for success. Information is education, which is an essential component of the reconstruction, development and transformation of South African society. If the nation is educated, it gives them access to quality of life, to which the ANC-led Government is committed.

The late comrade Harry Gwala once said, ``Education is a right, not a privilege.’’ In the past, we were deprived of this. Among the various factors that determined one’s level of education, race was most prominent. As a result of this discrimination, blacks have been based in predominantly low-paid, menial work in comparison to whites, most of whom are well paid and in respectable positions.

According to Census 1996, figures released by Statistics South Africa, there are 23,6 million adults between the ages of 16 and 65 in South Africa. Of those, 3,2 million have not accessed any schooling and 9,4 million have not completed Grade 9. Thus, 54% of the total adult population have not completed a general level of education. Government is setting responsibilities to quality. The Minister of Education once said, ``No adult South African should be illiterate in the 21st century but millions will be, unless we mobilise a social movement to bring reading, writing and numeracy to those who do not have it.’’

Section 29 of the Bill of Rights includes the right of all citizens to a basic education, including adult basic education and further education, which the state through reasonable measures must make progessively available and accessible. Abet introduces a culture of learning and provides a foundation for acquiring the knowledge and skills required for social and economic development, justice and equality. It should link to development programmes, employment creation initiatives and further education and training opportunities, and allow for career pathing.

Indeed, these are challenging times. Blacks have the democracy they fought for and it is our chance to prove ourselves within the process from liberation to transformation. There is growth in the Abet sector. In 1995- 2000 the total number of adult educators grew to 16 089. The number of learners also grew to 294 566. A total of 2 226 adult learning centres have been established. It should also be acknowledged that the growth occurred within budgetary constraints. The figures above grew rapidly every year. Government, through private-public partnerships created a useful capacity that was transferred to learners. With regard to educators, for example, out of 3 000 participants targeted, 2 028 were trained. Learners should be allowed to cope at their own pace. The educational programmes should be designed to protect and advance basic human rights irrespective of gender, race, class, creed or age.

These will greatly deal with encouraging quality of life. Basic education for youth and adults is a prerequisite for a truly democratic society because it prepares people for full and active participation in society. After the President’s call during his state of the nation address in 2002, the Minister together with his department instructed provinces to prioritise critical situations where children are learning under trees, in the open air or under any unacceptible conditions.

Business plans were requested from provinces with specific timeframes to eliminate these situations. We are now in a position to justifiably say that in view of these business plans provinces were and are in fact working on these infrastructural backlogs.

In the last financial year 3 750 classrooms were either under construction or completed by provincial departments of education in genuine attempts to ensure that provinces eliminate these situations in the shortest possible time. The department has made remarkable progress with the implementation of the Japanese Grant Aid for school construction. The Japanese programme entails the building of school infrastructure to the value of R200 million, which has been divided equally among four provinces, namely the Eastern Cape, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo.

We still lack basic human rights. Water and sanitation are necessary to create a healthy environment for learners. They are central to healthy physical and mental development. We are therefore heartened by the hon Minister’s announcement on the progress. The hon Minister also made mention of the budget and the implementation of electricity and improved IT systems. This is quite impressive and should be implemented in rural areas to stop over-rapid urbanisation, which has resulted in the migration of many from rural to urban areas.

IT in our schools will open a huge arena of ideas and information to our learners and education in rural areas. It will play an important role. We still have a challenge that we need to address - transportation to school and accessibility of our schools for our disabled people. The question of incentives for Abet educators should also be addressed. There is also a need to develop recruiting programmes to ensure that girls are in the mainstream education at schools. There is quite a number who are still playing mothers at home whilst parents are not staying with their families and working far from their home.

In conclusion, I would like to congratulate the Minister on the Budget Vote and progress of the department and fully support it. I would also like to echo what was said once in this House, namely that if you ``empower women, you empower the nation; empower the youth and you empower the future.’’ Halala ANC! I thank God for this Government, God bless us all. Thank you.

Ms G N SWARTBOOI (KwaZulu-Natal): Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish to commend the hon Minister of Education, Prof Kader Asmal, for the policy budget speech he has just presented to us. It is a real public policy expressed …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, can you just hold on. Rev Chabaku?

Rev M CHABAKU: With apologies, I had raised my hand before the hon speaker stood up.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: My apologies. I did not see your hand.

Rev M CHABAKU: I just want to alert this House, with your permission, Chairperson, that this was a maiden speech from the Free State.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Chabaku, you are misinformed, most unfortunately. This is the second speech. Over to you, Ms Swartbooi.

Ms G N SWARTBOOI: I hope that I will still have my five minutes, Madam Chair. It is a real public policy expressed and deals with amounts of money for goals and specific objectives, which the Department of Education is to achieve by means of relevant expenditure. Without wasting time, we hope there will be no underexpenditure. Time is a key resource.

I just want to be direct and kick off by addressing the following issues, namely Abet as well as the transformation of higher education. As part of Government’s commitment to addressing the legacy of the past, where the majority of the people were deprived of access to education and to higher education, we can see that the Ministry of Education has expressed its commitment by increasing the budget expenditure on Abet and higher education. This should be appreciated. Education is a key resource.

During 1999 provincial education departments reached over 389 000 Abet learners whereas the target set in the multiyear implementation plan was 177 000. This year, 2003, the enrolment of Abet learners, I presume, has increased to 389 000 multiplied by four. In KZN, to be specific, Abet was previously just a subprogramme but now it has developed into a fully fledged programme. Furthermore, expenditure in this programme has increased from R19 million in the 2000-01 financial year to R46 million for 2003-04. The only challenge that we are faced with in our province is the monitoring and evaluation strategy for Abet provisioning and performance, because I do not think our province has the mechanism to monitor and evaluate the effectiveness and efficiency of Abet centres.

We need to check whether these projects still address the original objectives or the problems they were meant to solve. There should be value for money, which is the key resource.

On higher education, as KZN we are happy with the transformation. The national plan for higher education was to increase the participation rate from 15% to 20% in the long term - for example 10-15 years - to develop the employment equity plan with clear targets for rectifying race and gender inequities and change all institutions to make them nonracial and nonsexist, as well as to develop strategies to build capacity.

What I want to raise with the Minister is that learners, whilst at school level, need to be informed of the earmarked funds for scholarships and bursaries. Each institution should be in a position to create public awareness of the financial aid and support services. Higher education is becoming expensive. This was also raised at the ANC’s 51st National Conference in Stellenbosch.

In conclusion, the Minister has touched on the new funding formula for FETs. We hope that colleges like Madadeni, Esikhaweni and Gamalakhe colleges will be converted into FET centres because now, with the merging of technikons and colleges, we have a lot of white elephant buildings which are unused. This is a waste of resources.

We also hope that the department will speed up the issues around giving incentives and perks to the educators, especially those who are committed to go to the rural areas for the betterment of the rural communities, and retain qualified teachers in our country because we are losing good teachers to the already developed countries. I support the view that teachers should be graded according to their educational qualifications. I thank you.

Mr A C MSANE (Gauteng): Hon Chairperson, members of the NCOP, Minister Asmal, it gives me great pleasure to respond to the education speech as presented by Comrade Kader.

It is indeed gratifying to note that the quality of education in the whole country has improved beyond expectations. It is further gratifying to note that this improvement is taking place amongst the poorest of the poor of our communities. It is further encouraging to notice that the girl learner is making huge strides in closing the gap that existed prior to 1994 in terms of previously male-domidated professions. More and more girls are now entering the fields of engineering, medicine, computer science, actuarial science, commerce, etc.

This can only augur well for the sustainable development of our people, our region and our continent. The sooner we remove the many stereotypes of our people that are out there, the sooner we will remove societies from extreme levels of poverty and in doing so we will be consciously pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

I would like to therefore agree with the Minister that the vehicle through which we will realise the rapid enhancement of our people, is education. Through education we will also individually remove people from poverty cycles. As a collective we will be able to remove societies and the nation at large from these poverty cycles. It is therefore imperative that we ensure that in each province the largest chunk of the provincial budget is spent on education. It is also important and crucial for us as legislators to support the Ministry in its quest to ensure that we educate for development.

In terms of the National Norms and Standards for School Funding, the bulk of the money expended goes to the poorest schools in the country. This needs to be encouraged further so as to ensure that we break the backbone of poverty.

With regard to the curriculum, it is indeed encouraging to know that all learners in South Africa, whether they are in public, independent or rural schools, follow the same curriculum. A common curriculum pursued by all learners means that we are moving closer to realising a national identity and character.

The Grade 12 results are continuously on the rise, which is incredible because it demonstrates that the education system has indeed turned the tide. As a nation that is hungry for qualitative education we cannot rest on our laurels, but need to set higher standards to further improve the results. We need to also ensure that more learners do subjects on higher grade, like maths, science, accountancy, economics and business economics.

Without a dedicated teacher corps all the advances towards a successful education system would not have been possible. We need to acknowledge all our hardworking and dedicated educators and I salute them all.

Principals and School Management Teams, or SMTs, are playing significant roles in ensuring that we have a competent and effective education system. We need to encourage the further development of our SMTs. I believe that Gauteng will be launching a school of leadership and governance very soon to ensure that principals, aspirant principals and SGBs receive additional training. This is good for education development.

The additional remuneration of educators in certain public schools needs to be dealt with as a matter of extreme urgency. Educators employed under the Employment of Educators Act cannot receive additional remuneration. If they do remunerated work outside of the Public Service they need to seek the permission of the relevant head of department. It is quite obvious that this is a contentious issue, because not all of us in this country would like to see the gaps narrowing between the rich and the poor. We need to provide our unequivocal support to the Ministry to deal with this.

The review on the functioning and effectiveness of school governing bodies and the study on the cost of education are two fundamental pieces of research and investigation that are needed to ensure that communities take ownership of schools. The cost of education investigations will assist the Ministry to further ensure that the most vulnerable people in society are protected. We have to support the Ministry in these developments.

The issue of HIV/Aids is one of the most crucial aspects that we need to concentrate on. I would argue that it will be very difficult to eradicate poverty if we do not deal sensibly with HIV/Aids issues. We need to strengthen the solid foundation that has been laid in our schools in dealing with this epidemic. Each one of us should volunteer our time and services to ensure that we play our role in the development of our country. There are millions of children that go to school on a daily basis without having had anything to eat. The school nutrition programme needs to continue if we really want to produce the scientists of tomorrow.

In conclusion, Chairperson, I would like to call on each one of us present here today to congratulate the efforts of thousands of educators, learners, parents and officials in ensuring that this country produces qualitative education for the nation. I would also like to challenge each one of us to support the endeavours of the Ministry and begin to ask the question, “What can I do for my country?” instead of, “What can the country do for me?” I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, education lies at the heart of everything we wish to achieve as a nation. Education plays a crucial role in determining our progress through life and lies at the heart of our hopes and dreams for our children, families and communities.

Our country’s Constitution commits us to improve the quality of life of all our citizens and free the potential of each person and to build a united and democratic South Africa able to take its rightful place as a sovereign state in the family of nations.

The New NP believes that education is a means of self-fulfilment and the development of people’s full potential; the means for South Africans to contribute to progress and prosperity for the country and all its people; a key to addressing our unemployment and a critical success factor to make our country more globally competitive.

The constitutional prohibition on any form of discrimination must be strictly adhered to. All learners must have equal opportunities. Equality means that every pupil should have the chance to receive an education and training suited to his or her interests and talents whatever the financial position of the parents. Although the state will have to shoulder its responsibility with respect to disadvantaged learners, parents will be required to contribute according to their means.

Quality education in the classroom is non-negotiable. It is important to instill and maintain core values at school level. The aim of education is not merely to distribute facts. Teachers are, however, not the only people to instill values such as integrity, diligence, excellence, responsibility and honesty. Schools need to make parents aware of their responsibility to become positive role models for their children. Good governance in education is non-negotiable and must ensure the involvement of the community and parents. Respect and support school governing bodies. Respect the professional status of teachers and lecturers. Resolve matters through consultation and not unilaterally. Be accountable, efficient and cost-effective. Observe standards and deliver. Promoting partnership between the state and the private sector is of the utmost importance. Parental involvement in education is crucial.

Partnership with the private sector also implies that there should be incentives for the schools that deliver excellent results. And the focus on restoring discipline in our schools needs to be implemented by developing intervention programmes and encouraging the clustering of schools to involve the community and businesses in fighting violence, abuse and crime at school level. Discipline must be restored in schools by means of clear codes of conduct, disciplinary procedures and sanctions.

Ek is baie bly dat minister Asmal tydens sy begrotingsposdebat in die Nasionale Vergadering ook aandag aan die situasie van ons kinders in die sogenaamde plaasskole, of soos hulle dit deesdae noem, multigraadskole, geskenk het.

Soos seker ook in ander dele van die land, is ‘n groot persentasie van die kinders in hierdie skole werklik die voorheen benadeeldes, die huidige benadeeldes en - as ons nie iets daadwerkliks daaraan doen nie - die toekomstige benadeeldes. Die kinders van die plaasskole is in baie gevalle die armstes van die armes met verdere sosio-ekonomiese nood wat met drankmisbruik gepaardgaan.

Hoeveel van hulle het hoop op ‘n beter toekoms en wat doen die onderwys om hulle op te voed om ook hulle drome te verwesenlik? Sal hulle ook maar plaaswerkers wees soos hulle ouers en dié se ouers? Of kan ons hulle help om deur te breek na ‘n beter toekoms om dan ten minste te mik daarna om eendag ‘n plaasbestuurder of selfs ‘n plaaseienaar te wees? Ons moet dringend werk daarvan maak om hulle ‘n alternatief te bied vir die huidige akademiese opvoeding sodat dié wat belangstel eerder spesifiek opgelei kan word in ‘n werkrigting.

Op die oomblik is ‘n groot getal plaaskinders wat graad 7 bereik eenvoudig te bang om op die dorp se skool verder te gaan leer en hulleself te bekwaam. Gewoonlik is daar ook nie geld daarvoor nie en so gaan die sirkelbeweging van geslag tot geslag maar voort. Dit is die ou storie: “Ek is arm, want my pa kon nie bekostig om my te laat leer nie, want hy het nie geleerdheid gehad nie en daarom sal my kinders arm wees.”

Kom ons gryp in en help hierdie kinders om hul werklike potensiaal te bereik sodat hulle ‘n groter bydrae kan maak tot ons land se voordeel. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I am very pleased that Minister Asmal also paid attention to the situation of our children in the so-called farm schools, or as they are known today, multigrade schools, during his Budget Vote debate in the National Assembly. As perhaps also in other parts of the country, a large percentage of the children in these schools are truly the previously disadvantaged, the presently disadvantaged and - if we do not actually do something about this

• the future disadvantaged. The children of the farm schools are in many instances the poorest of the poor with further socioeconomic difficulties associated with alcohol abuse.

How many of them have hope for a better future and what is education doing to educate them so that they can realise their dreams? Or will they also become farmworkers like their parents, and their parents before them? Or, can we assist them in breaking through to a better future to at least aim at one day becoming a farm manager or even a farm owner? We must urgently make an effort to provide an alternative to the current academic education so that those who are interested can rather be specifically trained in a new direction.

At the moment a large number of farm children who achieve Grade 7 are simply too scared to attend the town school for further education and to qualify themselves. Usually there is no money for this and so the cycle continues from generation to generation. This is the old story: ``I am poor, because my father could not afford to let me study because he did not have the education, and therefore my children will be poor.’’

Let us intervene and help these children to achieve their real potential in order for them to make a greater contribution to the benefit of our country. I thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr I W J STADHOUER (Northern Cape): Thank you, hon Chairperson. Hon Minister of Education, Prof Asmal, hon MECs and special delegates and hon members, allow me to apologise for our MEC, Ms Tina Joemat-Pettersson who unfortunately could not join us and for whom I stand in today. I wish to add that it is indeed a privilege to be accorded an opportunity to participate in the debate on behalf of our province.

In the Northern Cape province we have made remarkable progress with respect to education. This signals the kind of holistic progress that we have made in our country as a whole and our policies and actions continually dovetail with one another as we advance in addressing the actual interests and the needs of our people. We are doing everything to extend best-practice models in our system so that they dominate the overall outlook of our work. This also serves as a means to an end, namely to provide permanent economic reprive from poverty to the masses of our people and furthermore to eliminate the social ills that work against the swelling tide of unity and nation-building.

As we concur with our hon President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, that the tide has turned, we also acknowledge that racism still stands out like a sore thumb in our schools. Racism and discrimination affect the very fabric on which is premised the cornerstones of our democratic order. Hence, we have the consistent effort on the part of Government in our schools to promote human rights and justice. We have thrown down the gauntlet to those schools that persist in pursuing racial paranoia and exclusivity; schools that are totally failing to promote parity with regard to the learner and educator composition and the ratios. This constitutes one of the ongoing challenges of transformation in South Africa.

Work still needs to be done to ensure that the citizens and learners of our country are knowledgeable and aware of the question of national symbols, including the constitutional values that underpin our existence as a country and sovereign state. We must work to affirm our common citizenship and identity without equivocation, especially among the youth. Hence the need to critically look at the question of the celebration of our public holidays. In the Northern Cape, the Freedom Day celebrations were held in all our schools throughout the province. School-based activities were based on the theme: What freedom means for me and for my community. There has also been sufficient ground laid for the necessary work to be carried out amongst our youth through the retaining and capacitating of our teachers and educators.

Initiatives are being implemented for the consolidation of human rights in the curriculum. This particularly pertains to the AECE on values and human rights programmes. We are aware of the fact that education cannot continue to play a minimal role as it relates to the development of our people and the democratic ethos of our country. Hence, our province initiated the IEC Schools Voter Education Project. This year’s pilot project started in September last year and there are 25 schools involved. Our schools are also involved in the electoral democracy development programme.

We are working to ensure maximum efficiency in the redistribution of resources to benefit especially the neediest of our society. There is no need to further clarify the urgency with which Government must work to extend the frontiers of prosperity and to push back the frontiers of poverty. Hence, the Northern Cape has made rapid progress in terms of increasing the non-personnel allocation from R57 million in the 2002-03 financial year to R62,44 million currently. The average per-learner allocation of R320 is the highest in the country.

Already this year the Ministry of Education and the department have been able to provide all secondary schools with at least 10 computers and a laser printer. The spin-offs of this are that all these schools now have electricity and heightened security, contributing to a safer school environment.

The greater proportion of our budget goes to public ordinary schools and improving the learning and lives of our learners. Since the beginning of this year we have implemented a vigorous school food security programme which is mainly the extension of the primary school feeding scheme to our communities, ECD sites and secondary schools, especially for our poor learners. Simultaneously we have worked hard to ensure that schools adhere to the policy of exempting those parents who are poor and cannot afford to pay school fees. Our Premier and our MEC have been particularly passionate about opening the doors of learning to children in rural areas and also at our farm schools. The 20% of the poorest learners in our province receive approximately 35% of all the allocations. The Department of Education, taking the lead from our Government, is serious about the elimination of poverty and directing resources to the most needy. Hence, schools in less poor quartiles are also being specifically targeted.

We are also hard at work towards the renewal of mandates of AGBs. This process is currently being underpinned by a process of advocacy and mobilisation. We have almost completed the process to merge schools as we now are at the stage where we are looking at the question of representivity. It is not without difficulty that we have been traversing into courts daily, seeking to enforce the purpose and spirit of our Constitution.

Generally the assessment of our whole school evaluation process indicates that there is marked improvement in the management of schools and therefore the quality of education is signalled by our Grade 12 results. We are currently hard at work in our provincial department also. Amongst other things, we seek to instill behavioural change amongst all of our people and therefore minimise, if not eliminate the spread of HIV/Aids. In this process we have made a concerted effort to build capacity to realise this objective. Furthermore, all our schools have an HIV/Aids policy. We are currently also at a very advanced stage in the implementation of HIV/Aids and life-skills programmes in our FET colleges. Of course this is critical as we work to at least eliminate the rampant risk factors associated with youth in respect of HIV/Aids. Consistent with this response of our Government at the national level to the challenge of HIV/Aids, the Northern Cape government programme in schools is a holistic strategy to deal with HIV/Aids with an approach that also deliberately seeks to target even those youth that are out of school and therefore very vulnerable.

Amongst the notable areas in which we are making great progress is adult education. Clearly the issues of lifelong learning and the eradication of skills poverty are critical. This year, in terms of Abet our target is 9 900 learners and the budget has been significantly increased from R9,24 million to R27 million for this year. The most challenging task is to reel back in those learners or potential learners who are in fact the actual victims of apartheid denial. Abet services for older generations, and especially women, are therefore critical in terms of skills transfer. The FET colleges in the Northern Cape are at the axis of addressing the existing skills imbalances that necessitate a holistic focus on Abet. The rapid progress that has been made is reflected in terms of the 19 centres of Abet … [Time expired.] I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr M A MZIZI (KwaZulu-Natal): Sihlalo, ngivumele ngibonge ukucosha leli thuba lokuthi ngiphawule nami kwiSabiwomali sezemFundo futhi ngihalalisele uNgqongqoshe. [Chairperson, let me thank you for this opportunity to comment on the Education budget and to congratulate the Minister.]

Madam Chairperson, education is one of the most important factors to ensure a country’s long-term social and economic survival. The education of a nation’s children determines the resources that a nation can successfully apply towards economic growth, a skilled labour force and improvement of life for all its people. It is therefore vital that the education budget must reflect a nation’s commitment to its own future. South Africa has since 1994 allocated vast sums of money to education. As a percentage of the entire Budget, our education spending is on a par with most developed countries in the world. In many cases it is higher.

But we have to ask the question whether we are getting value for our money. Yes, there has been a steady improvement in matric pass rates over the last few years. But that cannot be the only criterion. Are we getting enough well-qualified learners into the tertiary sector? Are we equipping our learners with the required skills base to obtain employment after school? And are we creating and maintaining an environment in which our educators remain in state employment and are committed to teaching our children?

These are the questions that come under the spotlight in an education policy debate. Almost on a daily basis we hear stories of educators leaving the public education sector, either for overseas or for private schools. We hear stories of teachers abusing their position and their learners, of teachers arriving drunk at school, or often not arriving at all, and of learners threatening and even abusing teachers, sometimes carrying dangerous weapons onto school property, including firearms.

These stories paint a picture of a department in crisis. Add to that the recent controversies surrounding religious instruction in schools, target shooting and removing extra remuneration for extramural duties of teachers, and we have to seriously ask the question: Is education in South Africa in a crisis? And furthermore, is the Minister in control of the policies, or are they being hijacked by vested interests?

The Minister owes this House honest answers to these very important questions. If the answer to any of the above even comes close to representing a crisis, we need to know. And we need to be assured that the Minister and the department will act speedily and decisively to address whatever problems are being experienced in the education sector. It is only in this way that we can be reassured that South Africa is investing enough in its own future. [Interjections.]

Ngimbonile, mfowethu. Ungakhathazeki. [I have seen him, brother. Do not worry.]

Modulasetulo, ntumelle nke ke tshwaye, ke tshohle puong ya Monghadi Kganare, ha a ne a bua ka ditekanyetso tsa bana ha ba ya sekolong dikolong tse kantle. Monghadi leloko le hlomphehileng, ha o ya mane Foreisetata tulong yane, mohlomong ha o feta boVilliers o eya boWarden, o sa tsamaye ka mmila wa setjhaba, ho na le bana bao o tla ba feta, ha o se o tsamaile dikilometara tse fetang 20, ebe hona o tla fumana sekolo ka pele, bana e le hona ba ntseng ba tla ba kgikgitheha hara tsela, ele hore ke hora ya borobong hoseng. Ngwana eo otla fihla neng sekolong.

Ba bang mohlomong ha o se o fetile sekolo bolelele bo ka etsang 25km, o kopana le bona ba kgikgitha, ba tshetshetha ba ya sekolong. Bana bao ba tla ithuta neng? Molaetsa oo re o romellang ho Monghadi Kader Asmal, ntate Kader Asmal, dibese tsela tse neng di thotha bana ba bobase dipolasing mane, di fihle di ba nke ba ye sekolong, ba fihle ka nako. Ke bua jwaloka motho ya neng a tsamaya sekolo dipolasing. Ke ne ke tshetshema jwaloka bana bana bao ke ba bonang ba ntse ba tshetshema hona tjena. Ke tshela dinoka, ke matha ke ya sekolong hobane ke tla fihla morao, ba ntjhape.

Ha ke tswa sekolong ke tshetshema ke mathe hobane ke tla fihla bosiu hae. Dibese tsela ntate, ha di kgutle, le bana ba rona ba tsebe ho palama. Ke a leboha ntate. [Ditsheho.] [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, let me comment on Mr Kganare’s speech, in which he talked about funds for schoolchildren who attend schools far from home. Hon member, when you go to the Free State, there is a certain place on the Villiers and Warden route, if you do not take the national route, where you will pass children along the route. You travel for over 20 km along that route before you reach a school, and the children would still be trudging along that route on foot at nine o’ clock in the morning. When will those children get to school?

You will pass more children trudging along to school, after driving for approximately 25 km from the school. When will those children learn? The message that we send to Prof Kader Asmal, father Kader Asmal, is that those buses that used to take white farmers’ children from the farms to school should transport these children to school, and get them to school on time.

I am saying this as someone who used to go to school on the farms. I used to walk the same long distances as the children that I see walking along those roads. I used to cross rivers and run to school, afraid that I would arrive late and be beaten for that. After school I would also run, afraid to get home after dark. Sir, those buses should be put back on the road and transport our children. Thank you, Sir. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Hon Minister and colleagues, I also wish to commend the Minister for his informative budget speech. As already pointed out by some colleagues before me, education is one of the most important long-term investments a country can provide to its citizens. It is also one of the most important means by which the recipients can push back the frontiers of poverty. In the North West province a total amount of R4,678 billion was allocated towards education in the 2003-04 financial year.

This amount is approximately 36% of the total budget of the province, and it is also an increase of 11% on its 2002-03 budget. One of the key focus areas to be addressed is that of learner support material, which received R125 million, intended to improve the expenditure per learner from R170 to R250 per annum. It was gratifying to note that people who were granted tenders for the distribution of these learner materials completed their deliveries ahead of the target time, because the MEC responsible took personal charge of the process.

Another focus area is the building of the sanitation facilities at 56 schools for a budgeted amount of R50,6 million. The recent hullabaloo surrounding the fact that at a certain school in the province the learners relieved themselves in a bush on the Botswana side of the border, and were then threatened by pythons, will now be a thing of the past. Our appeal is that cleanliness in these facilities must be emphasised throughout, and that funds be spent for the purposes for which they were allocated.

In the Rabatlabama area a 14-classroom school was built approximately 25 years ago, to accommodate communities from the Ventersdorp area, who were expected to be settled there during the forced removals of yesteryear. When the said community won a court action upholding their resistance to move out, the school lay idle and unutilised. It was later used as an agricultural training centre. When the agricultural projects in that area collapsed, it lay idle and wasted.

It is consequently recommended that the department should consider the advisability of utilising that school to accommodate the learners of farmworkers in the area.

In conclusion, Madam Chairperson, I wish to state that the UCDP supports this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you very much, Mr Tlhagale. Hon members, I have been informed that the MEC for Education in the Western Cape, Advocate A H Gaum, has been called very urgently to the provincial legislature, and therefore hon Adams will present a speech.

Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, I am not in that fortunate position yet. It is Adv Gaum’s speech and if there is anything controversial the Minister must not be cross with me. [Laughter.]

In almost 10 years of our democracy a number of important changes have taken place in education. Many of the changes that have taken place since Minister Asmal took office have been beneficial, acceptable and even praiseworthy. The revision of Curriculum 2005, the new salary grading system and career pathing for educators, together with whole school evaluations and performance appraisals of individual teachers have been great developments.

We would like to thank Minister Asmal for his enthusiasm to bring about positive change in the education system as a whole. Although we should welcome positive change and guard against resistance to change for the sake of resistance, we must also make sure that we do not overburden our schools by implementing change overhastily.

I would, therefore, like to thank the Minister for agreeing to delay the implementation of the new FET to 2006 following the Western Cape’s pleas in this regard. That has been a good example of co-operative governance. In this way we are assisting teachers to get to grips with change. Sometimes the Minister is unfortunately scratching where it does not itch.

Hy krap waar dit nie jeuk nie. [Gelag.] Twee goeie voorbeelde in dié verband is die kwessie van die sogenaamde “perks” of ekstra voordele vir onderwysers, en godsdiens in skole. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[He is scratching where it does not itch. [Laughter.] Two very good examples in this regard are the issue of the so-called perks or extra benefits for teachers, and religion in schools.]

Instead of first doing a detailed investigation with regard to the nature and extent of these so-called perks which can inform appropriate policy, the Minister is making legislation that has the potential of chasing a number of educators out of the system.

However, I must acknowledge that Minister Asmal’s budget day media statement was more balanced and took a softer approach than his initial pronouncements on the matter. I am still convinced that school governing bodies should be allowed to reward hard work and commitment and that they should not be restricted, as the Minister aims to do.

Of course, there should not be extravagance and there should be transparency. Parents must know what the school fees they are paying are being used for. They must be fully informed on the context of budgets. This will enable parents to take their SGBs to task.

Maar die baba moet nie met die badwater uitgegooi word nie. Ek stel steeds voor dat daar eers ‘n behoorlike ondersoek plaasvind. Ons moet daarteen waak om onderwysers verder te demoraliseer. [But the baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater. I am still proposing that a detailed investigation be conducted. We should guard against demoralising teachers even further.] With regard to the proposed policy on religion in schools, I believe that the consultation process pertaining to this new policy has left a lot to be desired. It is very awkward that this process lacks the openness and transparency that one would have expected from it. Not all stakeholders are abreast of developments as far as the policy is concerned and many of them rightfully claim today that they have not been consulted at all.

Why were SGBs not consulted? They have the power to make rules with regard to religious observances in terms of the schools Act. Surely they are important stakeholders. Why was the policy not published for public comment as is normally the case with new policy developments? Why are the draft documents marked “confidential”? Why the secrecy?

The argument that the development of the policy has taken place over the course of many years since the days of former education Minister Sibusiso Bengu, and that adequate consultations have taken place over the years does not hold sway. The reason for this is that the current draft policy is something very different to the Bengu policy.

In this regard a question could be raised as to why the Bengu policy has been thrown out of the window. The policy would clearly have been more acceptable than the current one. While Minister Bengu accepted a particular approach to religion in schools, the draft policy document is not even considering it. The approach considers and includes the secular or consultative approaches that do not make real provision for different schemes of religious practice developed by different governing bodies according to the particular circumstances of the particular school community. It will be interesting to know why Minister Asmal has rejected former Minister Bengu’s policy document.

As far as religious education is concerned, many red lights are flashing. Why should we introduce it at Grade R level when children can be confused as the child is not settled within his or her own religious identity at this level? We should not introduce difficult concepts with regard to different religions too early. We are pleased that it has apparently been agreed with the National Religious Leaders Forum that religious organisations will be involved in the development of the content of the religion education curriculum.

However, it remains to be clarified as to who will be utilised as religion educators and who will train them. It remains difficult to imagine how religion education could be taught from the position of absolute neutrality. This in itself poses a danger that will not easily be overcome. Many people share this concern.

What is most important at present is that the Minister’s position on religious observance during school hours should be clarified. The Minister has indeed made some positive remarks in this regard in the past week or two. Some of these remarks were captured in his budget day media statements. Unfortunately, these remarks have not been taken up in the latest draft policy documents.

The latest policy document is still unconstitutional as it aims in the direction of multifaith assemblies, ignoring the constitutional right to religious observance and the right to religious freedom. It is unconstitutional as the Minister’s manifesto on values, education and democracy states that religious observance may be conducted only outside school hours.

I want to state very clearly today that the humanist multifaith approach of the draft policy documents and the underlying opposition to particular religious observance cannot be accepted by most religious people in South Africa.

Die dokument impliseer eintlik dat die beoefening van partikulêre godsdienste strydig is met die oogmerk van nasiebou. Dit getuig van ‘n inherente onverdraagsaamheid teenoor godsdiens oor die algemeen, en teenoor gelowiges in die besonder - wat indruis teen die verklaarde oogmerke van die beleid om juis waardes soos wedersydse respek en verdraagsaamheid te bevorder. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [The document actually implies that the practice of particular religions is contrary to the objectives of nation-building. This attests to an inherent intolerance towards religion in general, and towards religious people in particular - which is at variance with the elucidative objectives of the policy to particularly promote values such as mutual respect and tolerance.]

However, I am glad to have learnt a few minutes ago that, following input from the National Religious Leaders Forum, a revised draft is being worked on at present and will be available at the Council of Education Ministers meeting on Monday.

With regard to religious observance the Minister should simply take the position that religious observance is allowed during school hours, subject to the Constitution and the SA Schools Act. It should also state clearly that the SGBs would be allowed to develop mechanisms to adhere to the provisions of the Constitution and the SA Schools Act. To say anything more than this makes the matter highly problematic and creates a potential conflict with the Constitution and the SA Schools Act.

We trust that we will be able to find common ground with Minister Asmal on this matter, contrary to the impression created by press reports. The New NP does not claim that Minister Asmal is backtracking. We are not interested in claiming this. We are only interested in finding a solution.

All indications are that the Minister is indeed listening to the inputs made and the many concerns raised pertaining to this matter. We trust that the eventual policy will unite rather than divide people and that it will be to the satisfaction of the majority of South Africans.

I have great respect for Minister Asmal and I am taking up this matter because of his great importance, not to pick a fight or for any other reason.

Ms J MASHAMBA: Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister of Education, Prof Kader Asmal, colleagues, hon members of the executive councils from other sister provinces, hon members of this august House, our stakeholders in education, distinguished guests, comrades and friends, I did not want to respond to what the previous speaker has said but I doubt if indeed Minister Gaum left because there was a pressing need.

I am suspicious; maybe he did not have enough courage to say what he sent his deputy to say. But I do not think that we need to waste our time in trying to respond to the petty talk that we have just listened to. What does it mean to say that the Minister is trying to scratch where it does not itch when referring in particular to his stance on religion education?

He says that there was no openness and transparency and laments that there is no religious observance and all that. I do not think that the Minister should allow himself to be derailed. He is on the right track and has consulted. The whole process was transparent, unless we do not know what other parties mean by transparency.

I also want to say regarding what the Minister said around the rewards that SGBs are giving to people for what they call hard work and commitment, I think he is quite correct; let him stamp his foot and not allow anarchy, and he should also not entertain a free-for-all kind of situation. He should not allow the maintenance of the status quo. I think the Minister spoke very well about the redressing of imbalances. This is what the Minister needs to stick to.

This policy debate takes place on the eve of the completion of the first decade of our hard-fought-for democratic dispensation. As we engage in this debate today, we look back on the nine years of this democratic dispensation with a sense of pride and fulfilment.

Although we know the challenges that still confront us and certain shortcomings in our efforts to transform and reconstruct our education system, on most fronts we are pleased with the strides we have made towards empowering our people through the provisioning of quality education. We say this, however, knowing only too well that the road ahead is still long and the battle is far from over.

We stand here today from the Limpopo province to proudly pronounce that we have indeed gone a long way in our concerted struggle to provide quality public education to our people, ranging from Grade R to FET and Abet. We also stand here to recommit and rededicate ourselves to our resolve to spare neither courage nor strength in our struggle to obliterate the deep wounds and visible scars that have been inflicted on our people by the obnoxious system of Bantu education.

Much as we have recorded some decisive victories in a number of battles on the educational front, we are not ready to rest on our laurels until we are certain that the doors of learning and teaching are open to all regardless of race, gender, ability, etc. We shall only declare victory and say we have achieved when none of our children receive their education under trees or in dilapidated shacks that are not conducive to educative teaching and learning; when every learner receives his learner support material on time so that learning and teaching start on the first day of school; when every school in our province caters for the academic needs of all our children irrespective of race, colour, religion, language or culture; when each and every school is a safe environment free of drugs, guns and abuse; when each and every school has an effective and efficient school governing body whose composition reflects the demographics of the school community in so far as the parent, educator, noneducator and learner components’ representivity is concerned and when all our educators are empowered to inculcate the values of education in our learners.

These are but a few examples of areas where we need urgent improvement. These are, however, not the only areas where we need to improve. I want to introduce something that I think is going to answer one of our colleagues who spoke of white elephants that are standing unutilised. Our province inherited 22 colleges of education in 1994. It is known that teacher education is the competence of the national Department of Education in terms of The Higher Education Act, Act 101 of 1997. In terms of section 21(2) of the same Act we have rationalised 13 of our former colleges of education into what we refer to as education multipurpose centres. We did this with the help of the various stakeholders, who joined hands to suggest in what way we could best make use of those facilities. So, I would suggest that our member from the UCDP should, as a good parliamentarian, delegate; and, as a good NCOP person, go to the Department of Education and come with suggestions as to what they can do to make those centres work. I will also convey to our Comrade Tolo that it looks like the comrade wants to assist him in suggesting what those centres should be used for.

Back to what I said about our education multipurpose centres, our vision for these centres is to facilitate the process of lifelong learning, skills acquisition and resource mobilisation to realise the objectives of the provincial growth and development strategy, the rural development strategy and the human resource needs of our province. In all the programmes that are offered in these EMPCs strong emphasis is placed on social awareness and understanding so that we develop well-rounded citizens who do not only have the technical know-how, but who are acutely aware of and understand the dynamics of broader social issues such as race, gender, culture, etc.

We envisage that the education multipurpose centres will serve as centres for implementing our training of trainers programme, to skill and empower our educators on creative ways of infusing values in education in their lessons.

The following are some of the programmes that are being implemented in our education multipurpose centres: a schools support programme that is aimed at the enhancement of teaching and learning in the classroom and institutional change; development and capacity-building programmes for school management teams, school governing bodies and representative councils for learners; and community development programmes targeting mainly the youth, women and the disabled. Our education multipurpose centres will also serve as continuous professional developmental centres, where our educators will continually be empowered to implement the revised and streamlined Curriculum 2005 with confidence.

Mr Minister, through these education multipurpose centres we hope that we have in a small way responded to your call for making our institutions centres of community life as espoused in the Tirisano Call to Action.

I also want to touch on school effectiveness. Whilst it is difficult to measure school effectiveness with any measure of precision, Grade 12 results to a great extent serve as a key performance indicator of the effectiveness of our schools. Our Grade 12 results at the end of 2002 confirmed our status as the fastest improving province when we recorded a 69,5% pass rate, which is a 10% improvement on the 59,5% of 2001. Our success can only be attributed to a number of intervention strategies aimed at enhancing performance of both our educators and learners throughout the system. Our intervention strategies include, but are not limited to, the learner performance enhancement strategy, that is Saturday classes focusing on maths, science, biology, technology, English, accounting, economics and business economics, as well as the Dinaledi project, mentorship by our maths and science teachers of the year, and winter enhancement classes.

I also want to briefly touch on crime in our schools. We are saddened by isolated incidences of gangsterism that have bedevilled our schools in the recent few weeks. Reports of the deaths of our learners through gunshot and stab wounds are disturbing. We are encouraged to learn that the Ministry of Safety and Security is prioritising this kind of crime in ensuring that our children are safe and secured. On our part we are working very closely with the provincial department of safety and security and liaising to ensure that they will rid our schools of these crimes. We call upon our SGBs to come up with innovative programmes to make sure that our children and educators are safe from rogue elements who are hellbent on destroying the culture of teaching and learning.

We also call on our parents, and upon society in general, to assist because this is not only a problem that starts at school. The yoke of transforming education is not light. Equally, the burden of reconstructing and developing the education system is not easy.

Unzima lo mthwalo, ufuna sibambisane. [This is a heavy burden, it demands co-operation from all of us.] O boima morwalo o batla re tshwarisane. [This yoke is heavy. We need to assist one another.] Wa tika ndzhwalo lowu wu lava leswaku hi khomisana, hi tlhuvutsa edzhovo ngopfu eka lava va tivaka laha hi humaka kona hi timhaka ka dyondzo. [This yoke is heavy. We need to assist one another in addressing the problems we encounter, especially for those who know where we came from with regard to education issues.]

That is why we in the Limpopo Department of Education have adopted the slogan which guides our day to day operations. We say we need to find solutions to educational challenges before starting engagements and participation until the doors of learning are open for all. [Time expired.]

Mr N M RAJU: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, hon special delegates and hon colleagues, though of diminutive stature, the hon Minister, like Baby Jake Matlala, does pack a powerful punch with his hands-on approach to matters under his regime. Today he has yet again given us a virtuoso performance in highlighting the achievements of the Ministry. We certainly

• that is the Official Opposition - acknowledge that since the advent of democracy, great strides have been made in certain areas of education.

But I think it was the Scottish poet Robert Burns, who in his ode To a Mouse said, and I quote:

The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men Gang aft agley. The noblest intentions sometimes go awry. I consider this quotation apposite because it encapsulates the situation in which Government finds itself today. The ANC Government, it must be noted, must be credited with introducing into the Statute Book some of the finest pieces of legislation, whether it be on human rights, services, public transport or education. We make good laws but are we able to execute those laws and regulations in a pragmatic fashion so as to benefit the masses in whose interests legislation in the new democratic order is primarily intended to facilitate delivery? A lack of resources, lack of skilled personnel or the hideous twins of fraud and corruption usually take centre stage in marring the physiognomy of the delivery of services, in the failure to translate excellent legislation into practical benefit to the intended beneficiaries.

The buzz words presumed are, and I quote: “to push back the frontiers of poverty”. I am constrained to pose rhetorical questions after reading a news article in the Sunday Tribune of 1 June entitled: Biting the hand that feeds children

There are claims that corruption in school feeding schemes is stealing nourishment from hungry kids, writes Philani Makhanya.

The national Minister of Education must immediately be complimented …

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chair, is it parliamentary for a member to read a newspaper in the House?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I think, hon member, as you are aware, it is parliamentary to quote from a newspaper but not to spend the time reading the newspaper. You may proceed, Mr Raju.

Mr N M RAJU: The national Minister of Education must immediately be complimented for the handsome increase in the budget for the integrated nutrition programme to a massive R800 million for the current year and increasing to more than R1 billion in the medium term.

This increase underlines the claim that the ANC Government is indeed a caring Government and the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Social Development, to use colloquial terminology, are putting their money where their mouths are. But, sadly, the increase in the nutritional budget has unleashed a frenzied orgy of fraudulent claims, misuse of funds, the sprouting of ghost suppliers and so on. Funds intended for the feeding of pupils from poverty-stricken communities are siphoned off into illegitimate coffers.

Mr Zenzele Mngoma, chairman of the Natal school food supply organisation, has angrily challenged the Government in the news article to investigate allegations of corruption which is taking on proportions of a many-headed hydra with an insatiable appetite for illegal acquisition of Government funds.

The article cites many instances of corruption and fraud. Yet more cases of impropriety are stated in the Echo, a supplement of the Natal Witness, dated 15 May 2003. Thousands of impoverished children in Vulindlela, Edendale are going hungry as the Department of Health cuts its school feeding scheme and reduces the number of schools. Rural schools in the deep rural areas are left to starve.

A disturbing feature described is the high absentee and dropout rate in schools, directly as a result of children moving to schools where feeding takes place from schools where there is no feeding. There seems to be no control over who should be the food suppliers. There are allegations of school principals, SCMs, educators and even polititians involved in food supplies. Association spokesman Mr Menzi Ndabazita attributes the collapse of the feeding scheme in some schools to corruption and failure to pay suppliers by the schools. He says that:

We are investigating a number of cases in which teachers, civil servants and principals are contracted as suppliers and that gives room for corruption.

[Time expired.] Ms L N JAJULA (Eastern Cape): Madam Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, it’s quite exciting to rise at this moment, when people have dreamt and decided to put on spectacles through which they cannot see what is happening in South Africa. They’ve decided not to look at what is actually taking place within the Department of Education.

However, I need to say to you, hon Chairperson, that I’m very excited to have this opportunity to map out the budget allocation for the 2002-03 financial year. This budget is not only for deploying resources and financial resources, but is entrusted with providing the learners and educators with the necessary care. The budget will reflect a strategic focus in order not only to achieve its objectives, but to create an atmosphere that is conducive to learning.

In order to better understand the implications of this budget, it is important to understand where we come from and where we are heading. Especially, as the Eastern Cape, we need to give this House a clear perspective of where we are at the present moment. One can only achieve these goals if one understands the current realities.

Just to make a reflection: As you sit to watch television, you need to understand and link this to the speech that I’m going to make now.

The Eastern Cape is moving from the premise that we’ve accommodated 2,1 million learners and 6 642 schools. We started with a backlog of more than 21 248 classrooms from the doomed policies of those that claim to know better today. That is in respect of 1994. We’ve managed to reduce the backlog during the past financial year to 14 000 classrooms.

Added to this challenge is a number of schools, totalling 1 487, at which we need to establish some ablution blocks or toilets, and a total of 1 972 schools with no water supply. We need to reflect that the number of schools that need school fields is 4 333 and that some of them do not have electricity. Almost 90% of the schools in the Eastern Cape do not have laboratories and libraries. That is a true reflection of where we are presently.

We are not sitting there and watching, but what the Government has done in the past few years is that it increased funding for infrastructure from R249 million during the financial year 1995-96. We have been increasing this amount by R75 million per year. We are proud to say that this financial year we have increased the budget now to R4 000 448, with a target of 420 schools to be built this year.

To ensure that the school renovation programme is moving on, the amount set aside for this purpose has been increased from R11 million to R90 million this year. For the day-to-day repairs, we are increasing the budget as well.

The province has a population of 6 000 900 people, and the majority of them

• 63% - live in the rural areas. That is a true reflection of the province of the Eastern Cape. The breakdown of this 63% is as follows: the unemployment and illiteracy rates are very high; there is poor road infrastructure; schoolchildren live in poverty and the areas are very poor.

I want, briefly, to contribute towards the elimination of unemployment, illiteracy, etc.

Now I will address the unemployment levels and infrastructure. Our school repairs programme involves the communities on a large scale. We have provided job opportunities for the unemployed by allowing them to engage in the repairs of school buildings. When the previous financial year ended on 31 March 2003, we had generated 25 716 jobs. The breakdown of the beneficiaries is: 8 978 men and 7 644 women. The breakdown on job creation for these people is: 5 746 males, 3 093 females, 177 disabled males and 78 disabled females.

Further, regarding infrastructure, we have encouraged women to go into construction. Six construction companies were awarded tenders during the past financial year. And this alone reflects that the amount for the youth project this financial year is R56 million. We want to ensure, as the Department of Education, that the youth out there receive the necessary skills, that repairs are done and that unemployment is reduced, to the best of our ability.

The illiteracy rate in the province is very high, as I indicated. A total of 700 000 people in the province are said to be illiterate, and that has a negative impact on the socioeconomic scenario, and this is disturbing. Therefore, the province has improved education through Abet, that is Adult Basic Education and Training.

We have increased the total budget for Abet to R20 million this financial year. This year we are increasing it to R131 million. In order for Abet practitioners to develop a curriculum and learning material, we need to improve their skills as well.

We recorded the highest enrolment throughout South Africa, with the others recording 49 124 illiterate persons enrolled during the past financial year or during the national exams. We have recorded the best results, and we are very proud to be one of the provinces that have for the first time improved their Grade 4 results.

During the 2001 exams only 6% of learners had enrolled for technical studies and they passed. We also have a pass rate of 68% in Adult Basic Education. But what makes us proud is that the Xhosa language in this area had the highest pass rate, namely 97%.

We are encouraged by the hard work done by the dedicated learners and educators at school. We have quite a number of schools that need to be assisted with scholars’ transport, owing to the fact that the majority of scholars live in rural areas. As a department we are determined to reduce the travelling distance to five kilometres or less, and we have provided additional scholar transport this financial year. We offer scholar transport to learners in 13 of the 24 districts. We are determined to increase this number.

At the present moment the focus is on farm schools, especially around the central, western and northern parts of the province. The transport will be extended to the eastern part of the province, to areas such as Mount Frere, Maluti, Bizana, Qumbu, Idutywa and Umtata. We have realised that learners travel very long distances to school. It is important then that the department contributes R50 per learner for scholar transport this financial year.

We have made sure that the vehicles that transport learners are roadworthy and as sister departments, that is with the Departments of Transport and of Safety and Security, we have ensured that the drivers … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

                     REMOVAL OF PROPOSED MOTION

                              (Ruling)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, before I call on the next speaker, I would like to make a ruling on the objection that was raised against a motion moved by the hon Dr Nel. I have checked the Hansard record with respect to the motions moved during the sitting yesterday and I have satisfied myself that the motion proposed by Dr Nel is similar to the motion moved by the hon Ms Versfeld. As a result, it transgresses the rules of the National Council of Provinces and must therefore fall away. Thank you very much. [Interjections.] Order!

Ms R P MASHANGOANE: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister of Education, hon members, distinguished guests of the education fraternity.

Motlhomphegi Joyce Mashamba, o tloge o le mmagwebana wa go swara thipa ka bogaleng. Wathinth’ abafazi, wathintha imbokodo! [Hon Joyce Mashamba, you are indeed a woman who stands for what she believes in. You strike a woman, you strike a rock!]

Chairperson, let me not waste my time by responding to arme [poor] Oupa Raju. Oupa Raju, cameleons always change colours. And you have changed good ideas and colours because of the coat you are wearing. Sepedi se re: Mogo ga o butswe ka go bona tshwene. [In Sepedi we say: You cannot ask for something because you see it.]

This ANC Government, and indeed this democratically elected Parliament, have a track record of delivering in this nation’s education over the last 10 years that will remain unsurpassed. What is even more gratifying is the extent to which we have over the second five years increased delivery through expanded policy implementation and legislative measures. These include the Ministry’s White Paper on Education and Training in a Democratic South Africa. This document adopted as its point of departure the 1994 Education Policy Framework of our party. After extensive consultation, negotiation and revision, it was approved by our first Cabinet and has served as a fundamental reference for subsequent policy and legislative development.

The National Education Policy Act of 1996 was also designed to inscribe in law policies as well as the legislative and monitoring responsibilities of the Minister of Education and for formalising relationships between national and provincial authorities.

Other legislation which provides further impetus for transformation includes the South African Schools Act, which promotes access to quality and democratic governance in the schooling system. It ensures that all learners have the right of access to quality education without discrimination and makes schooling compulsory for children aged 7 to 14.

Through Tirisano, we have achieved greater stability in our schools as evidenced by increased basic school functionality, the ability of provincial education systems to manage both human resources and financial policy and a clearer focus on delivery and implementation.

Our vision is of a South Africa in which all our people have equal access to lifelong education and training opportunities which will contribute towards improving their quality of life and build a peaceful, prosperous and democratic South Africa. This can only be achieved if we commit ourselves to pushing back the frontiers of poverty. In this regard, we have identified our core programme that will guide the activities of the Department of Education in relation to school effectiveness over the medium- term years.

In order to address the school effectiveness at the macro level, we commend the department for its holistic approach to ensure access to resources. During the past financial year we have witnessed the opening of a number of school libraries for use by a cluster of schools and communities. This programme is extending into the present financial year, together with the upgrading of school and community recreational facilities. Increasingly schools are being resourced with laboratories and greater numbers of qualified mathematics, science and technology educators are being drawn into schools where the needs exist. With the national schools sanitation and water strategy in place, the backlogs in the nodal areas have been reduced remarkably. In terms of the Thubamakota Poverty Alleviation Programme, multifunctional schools designed, constructed and managed for community purposes have been constructed. Our commitment as the ANC to eradicating poverty is further underscored with the vegetable garden projects in our schools and active community participation in these projects. These projects ensure that learners have food on their desks.

Moreover, we are assisting provinces in the elimination of instances where children are forced to receive education in unsafe and nonconducive environments. In respect of the latter, we endeavour to reduce instances of children receiving education under trees by 50% by the end of the 2003-04 financial year.

Another priority which is central in our onslaught against poverty is our HIV/Aids programme. First and foremost, and most importantly, we will support learners infected and affected by the pandemic. Our strategic objectives are to ensure adequate access to appropriate information for learners. We will provide guidelines on peer education for learners and students in selected areas as well as promoting visible related materials for learners in selected areas. Moreover, we will empower our educators with access to information. These include emergency guidelines on HIV/Aids and the national training programme for peer educators on prevention, management of Aids and basic counselling in selected areas.

In addition, reference material will be distributed to educators in the nodes and condom distribution is to be launched at all schools. This ANC- led Government … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, as I said at the beginning, it is a pleasure to be here in this House, to take part in the debates. I must compliment the reports of the different provinces. There are obviously enormous improvements and changes taking place.

As is the case with us in the ANC, I do not have to apologise to anyone. Many of the MECs were self-critical. I was very impressed by some of the younger members saying we need to do this'',we need to do that’’, we will come to Abet'',we will talk about the advances we made’’. They have made concrete suggestions and proposals for the next year, and I am grateful for that, because they are really using their capacity to present to this House their own information and ideas. I might not always agree with my brothers and sisters; the emphasis might be different.

But what do you do? An hon member of this House stands up and quotes for his six minutes from a newspaper. [Interjections.] The whole contribution is from a newspaper. What do you do in a situation like that? He quoted from a tendentious piece, which I had read before. The reason it is being transferred from the KwaZulu-Natal department of health to the department of education is the very reason the hon member Mr Raju mentioned. Not another penny of the R800 million will be spent now. So, far from doing his homework and research, he treats this House with contempt by reading from a wretched Sunday newspaper. Is that the correct thing to do in the House? Being attacked by him is really like being savaged by a dead sheep, frankly. [Laughter.] There is no other way I can describe that.

Of course, you show your appreciation for a debate where people have taken a considerable amount of pain and time to take part in that debate. Some of them are really cries from the heart, for change, development and improvement. And then you get this extraordinary farcical situation, of a total lack of research by his party which has, to judge from the newspapers, enormous capacity.

Secondly, I think the hon Mr Mzizi should lie down with the hon Mr Raju, since you are in any case flirting with each other in KwaZulu-Natal. [Laughter.] I think you will make a perfect pair, actually. Ideas and information will never affect your relationship. You will not be soured by any information or facts. They will never get in the way.

You ask about the crisis in education. You say grudgingly that matric examination results have gone up, but ``is there quality’’? Now I don’t know when you started having an interest in the quality of education. I said at the beginning: we’ve been spending all this money, now we must look at the quality of education, the effectiveness of education.

Let me tell you where the crisis is. There have been two national Ministers of Education. In the Northern Cape there has been one MEC for education, and in Gauteng there has been one MEC. In KwaZulu-Natal there have been seven MECs for education since 1994! [Interjections.] I got on very well with five of them, because I saw them work together. I did not know Mr Zulu. I loved Nkosi Shandu, Faith Gaza, Ndabandaba. I worked very well with them. Interposed between them was the hon premier who acted as MEC for education twice. [Interjections.] He is the one who covered himself with glory when he appointed the hon Mr Ndabandaba, a good educationist, and said: I want to mentor him indefinitely.'' Now this was the first time in the world when someone was appointed to public office and his superior said:I will be headmaster and look after you, and see you do the right things.’’ Well, in fact, he was not allowed to do anything at all!

All these MECs, apart from Prince Zulu whom I did not know, were honourable people who did their work honourably. I hope Narend Singh, whom I respected when I was Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry and he was MEC for agriculture, will be allowed to do the work that the other MECs here are doing.

I think it is very important that the hon Zulu does not play games with us here. There is no crisis nationally. On the contrary, we work with the officials collectively. We actually do work collectively. It is unusual in governance that we work collectively. I am not a person who is reticent about things. I am not shy about things. My job is to raise issues with them on a Monday morning. They hate me coming to the office on a Monday morning, because of what I have conjured up over the weekend. And we thrash it out, like we are thrashing out the whole question of the Schools Amendment Bill, which we will be looking at, about the question of additional payment.

The hon Gaum also showed his contempt for this House. This is a central part of the national Parliament. You don’t invoke other activities outside. You don’t ask people to read your speech without the permission of the Whips or the Speaker or the Chair or the Minister, as a courtesy. You make this extraordinary speech which has no relationship to the province’s work in education.

It is also, secondly, in breach of co-operative governance, because we are going to discuss this at the Council of Education Ministers. The Council of Education Ministers then recommends the policy to be formulated. That is what we are going to do in Durban on Monday, unless the hon Mzizi puts a picket on the place and drives us out of Durban. [Laughter.] Yes, he might do anything like that! But I know who has done it then, if I am driven out of Durban.

Co-operative governance means you work together, and you come to an arrangement. If the arrangement is not correct, then you don’t go to a court or threaten to go to the Constitutional Court. His likes have threatened this Government with courts since 1994, and every time they have gone there, like with the National Education Policy Act, which the hon chairperson of the ANC will remember was highly controversial, they were knocked for a six. They were knocked out of the court.

Everything we do, we do with the presumption of constitutionality. As a lawyer, I will not introduce legislation which I know myself is unconstitutional. But you cannot invoke the Constitution as an impediment for every progressive piece of legislation we have introduced since 1994. So I say to them: ``I’ll see you in court.’’

The other thing: I mentioned at the beginning that one of the virtues of coming to this House is that you listen to special delegates, MECs, who come with the authority of the province. Hon Mr Gaum does not speak for the Western Cape. The majority of the members of that legislative assembly are ANC members. I represent ANC policy. I speak for ANC policy here. [Interjections.] And, of course, ANC policy … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! Please, hon members, the Minister is on the floor.

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: We have the majority in that legislative assembly. We do, and he has not sought the consent of the ANC element, either in the cabinet or in the legislative assembly. I think we have discussed this matter, as to what happens when someone makes a speech for the press, presumably; delivers a speech and goes away without taking into account the genuine issues that arise.

Let me say that I hope that this House, at an early stage, will have a debate, a very concrete one, on the funding and the pricing of education. It is an enormously important document. It is a unique document prepared by us. It is self-critical, but also promotes the way as to how to deal with the pro-poor policies. I will make myself available and we will have a debate here, which will look at, for example, the cost of uniforms and fees. We are saying 40% of the poor should never pay fees. That is the proposal. I cannot tell you what was discussed in the Cabinet, but it was favourably received by the Joint Cabinet Committee. I cannot anticipate what the Cabinet will do next week, of course, but is was very favourably, and unanimously so, received. We are on the way.

Regarding the whole issue of transport, we have been talking to the Minister of Transport, and the MECs, saying that no child should have to walk more than five kilometers to school. I walked four kilometers. Lots of people walked three or four kilometers, not 24. And we will be able to co- ordinate this whole question of subsidies for transport, for taxis, and other very exciting proposals made here as to how we deal with this.

It is the same with the farm schools. You see, Mr Adams is a member of the ANC delegation here. We allowed this as part of a co-operative agreement. Then he spoke very movingly about farm schools. I did not understand the rest of what he said, but he spoke very movingly about farm schools. This is a matter that is central to the provinces of the Free State and the North West, because 60% of the kids in the Free State go to farm schools, or went to farm schools. One solution has been offered now.

But I brought three farmers to Parliament, very large and tough-looking, for the National Assembly debate, and they are actively involved in working with the community to renew these schools in the district. That is why, when the portfolio committee went to the Free State, they said actually that the Minister should invite these three farmers. And we did. That’s a new opening for the hon Mr Raju.

But we are doing these things, with co-operation of people who five, ten, fifteen years ago would not have passed the time of day with us. What they are seeing now are the new virtues of a common citizenship, what the French call the ideal of the republic, all the values that come from living in a republic. Some people have difficulties, of course - they don’t live in the Republic of KwaZulu-Natal, sorry, South Africa. [Laughter.] So those who live in a republic have this enormous advantage, and I am a self-confessed republican.

Can I say also, in reply to many of the suggestions made here, that some of them, in fact many of them, are very promotive. For example, Abet has taken off in the Western Cape, but the previous MEC did not allocate money for Abet. The figures I have for Abet now are really remarkable. There are now 400 000 people in literacy programmes, 100 000 in 800 adult education learning centres. That has all been done in the last two or three years.

I am not satisfied, as I said publicly, about the developments here, but as regards the relationship between the South African National Literacy Initiative and Unisa, they planned to enrol 90 000 adults this year. This is a very successful one. They have already registered over 190 000 students, and 93 000 in the Eastern Cape alone. So we set out to do Sanli, our project, with Unisa, to register 90 000. We now have 190 000, which shows that there is an insatiable desire among our people to learn, to better themselves, or in fact just to become literate.

And I would say to the hon Mr Mzizi, since illiteracy is the highest in KwaZulu-Natal, I think he should use his extraordinary capacity to influence his hon premier to say they should be party to this huge rolling- out of the literacy programme. I mean that very seriously, by the way. Of course we were had, but don’t say there is chaos.

Can I say, therefore, that I would have liked to have referred to one or two other matters, for example the whole question of teacher perks. We will debate it here when the Bill comes here. The hon Gaum is not here. The fact is, for the last five years the law has been broken. We have criminalised teachers. What we are now saying is that the school governing body should play a central role in determinings, openly, transparently, with no favouritism and no cronyism between headmaster and approved teachers. The other thing also, of course, is that we have to recognise that we are working on incentives. We are trying to get people to go and work in the rural areas and give them other special financial incentives. The problem is that there is very little housing in the rural areas. So hon Mr Mzizi should use his influence with the traditional leaders, to say that one of the building projects should be to build houses for teachers in this area. I mean this seriously. The traditional leaders can perform very useful work then, rather than trying to say that they should be the local authority. They could perform useful work and then we can get our teachers to the rural areas.

I understood that in Ingwavuma, when I went there, there were overseas volunteers who were sleeping on the ground and in tents. That is wonderful. Our people are not prepared to do that permanently.

The other issue which I did not have time to mention, is that we have enormous development support from overseas, and only our Government could do that. The other day I agreed with the European Union that over R260 million over the next three years will be devoted largely to the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga. That will be for school-building projects, maintenance and classrooms. That means that from two sources, the Japanese and the European Union, and the British government, we have received nearly R800 million for school development programmes. It is because they trust us in the department.

Contrary to what Mr Raju says, we have no problem with implementation. There are special problems in the provinces, which we are now looking at very carefully, but implementation takes place, with all the associated issues that arise with implementation, firstly, of very important tenders; secondly, following the procedures laid down; and thirdly, supervision by the donor country. So the fact that we are able to call upon so many resources from overseas shows the confidence in our Government.

I will therefore say that regarding all the issues raised here, I will engage with you. Come and talk to me. We don’t drink skokiaan - being a good person in my department. We will talk about discipline, no skokiaan. The hon Chairperson of the NCOP is looking at me very carefully and I must be on my best behaviour. [Laughter.]

The issue therefore is: on the ground there are remarkable things happening, regarding individual headmistresses, women teachers, regrouping, reorganisation. Last year we trained 40 000 of 73 000 undertrained or untrained teachers. An amount of R100 million was spent by the Education Labour Relations Council. We reduced unqualified and semiqualified teachers by nearly half. All that can only be done if there is political inspiration in the provinces and the national Government. It can only be done because you care about the people you are dealing with. The very famous English writer E M Forster said that the only thing in life is that we must connect. We are connecting. We are connecting communities now, we are connecting teacher unions, we are connecting with parents’ associations, we are connecting with young people.

You must not judge our education system by headlines. There are 27 000 schools. There are 12,5 million children in 27 000 schools. The conclusion you draw from that is, as the President said, that we have turned the corner. We turned the corner five, six years ago. We are consolidating what we are doing now.

On the other hand, those three people who took part here, they don’t really believe in principles. They want me to act as Groucho Marx once said, about 40 years ago:

These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others.

[Laughter.] We don’t do that.

Thank you very much. I think it has been a superb debate. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

   OVERSIGHT AS A TOOL TO ENHANCE GOOD GOVERNANCE AND DEVELOPMENT

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Man C NKUNA: Mutshami wa Xitulu, eka vurhangeri byo huma eka tiprovhinsi, eka vurhangeri hinkwabyo lebyi nga kona eka Yindlu leyi, ndza mi losa.

Xirhalanganya xikulu lexi hi kongomanaka na xona i ku hunguta vusweti na nsalelo endzhaku eku hluvukiseni ka mahanyelo ya vanhu. Tani hi vurhangeri hi languteriwa ku vona leswaku Yindlu kumbe Huvo leyi yi nga tirhisiwa njhani ku hunguta no susa vusweti.

Xikongomelonkulu namuntlha i ku languta mafumele lamanene ku sivela vusweti ku ya hi Yindlu leyi. Mafumele lamanene ya fanele ku eneta Vumbiwa no xixima vumunhu bya vanhu. Ndzinganiso, vutihlamuleri na endlele ya swilo hi ndlela leyi nge rivaleni. Hi ku landzelela Yindlu ya NCOP mafumele lamanene ya tikomba hi ndlela leyi Yindlu leyi yi kotaka ku vumba vuxaka eka swiyenge swa mfumo.

“Oversight” ya Yindlu leyi yi langutene no fikelela vuxaka kumbe ntirhisano lowu. Ntirho wa Yindlu leyi, hi ku landzelela “oversight” yi kongomane na swiyenge swimbirhi ku nga, xosungula, ku langutela no endla vuxokoxoko bya milawu. Xavumbirhi, ku vona leswaku milawu leyi ya endliwa no landzeleriwa na leswaku va karhi va hluvuka.

Mafumele lamanene i ndlela ya kahle yo lwa ni vusweti yo pfuna ku hluvukisa tiko hi tindlela to hambana. Ntsena leswi swi ta koteka loko swiyenge hinkwaswo swa mfumo swi komba minongonoko ya swona. Vanhu va tiva leswaku ku endleka yini eka xiyenge xolexo. Yindlu leyi yi pfuna ngopfu ku vona leswaku swiyenge kumbe tindzawulo swi le ku endleni no landzelela minongonoko leyi.

Ku na ntirhisano eka swilo leswi vuriwaka “oversight”, mafumele lamanene na nhluvuko lowu yaka emahlweni wu ri karhi wu lwa ni vusweti. Vuswikoti bya Yindlu leyi eka swa “oversight” swi ta hi pfuna ku lwa ni vusweti.

Afrika Dzonga, hi ku landzelela swivono swo huma eka komiti ya Oversight and Accountability, a yi na mavonele man’we hi “oversight” eka malembe ya kaye ya xidemokhirasi. (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)

[Mrs C NKUNA: Chairperson, provincial representatives and hon members of this honourable House, the main obstacle that we have is to eradicate poverty and lack of development and create a better life for all our people. As leaders of this House we have the responsibility to come up with strategies to eradicate poverty.

Our main purpose today is to discuss our understanding as this House of what governance is and how we can contribute to eradicating poverty. Good governance should be understood in terms of the stipulations of the Constitution and respect for the rights of human beings. Equality, accountability and transparency go together. As the NCOP we believe that governance can be illustrated in the way in which co-ordination is established amongst the different sections or departments of our Government.

The oversight function of this House is to focus on this co-ordination. Our oversight function would include, amongst other things, enacting laws and, secondly, to see to it that such laws are conformed to.

Good governance is the best way to eradicate poverty and develop our country in different ways. This is only possible when all sections of government display their programmes of action. People have a right to know what is being done in a particular section or department. This House has a responsibility to see to it that different sections and departments perform their functions.

There is some connection between what is generally referred to as oversight, governance and sustainable development as we continue our struggle against poverty. If we as a House succeed in our oversight function, the battle against poverty would be won.

In terms of what comes out of the committee that deals with oversight and accountability, after nine years of the democratic dispensation, South Africans still do not have the same understanding of the concept “oversight”.]

This lack of common understanding of the oversight role has meant that different committees understand their oversight role differently. This is a natural result of the lack of a common understanding of the oversight role. In order to address this shortcoming, there is a very strong view that the Joint Rules Committee should compile a document mapping all the constitutional provisions dealing with oversight, accountability, transparency and responsiveness as the basis for the development of a broad understanding of the oversight role and purpose of Parliament.

Although we are still grappling to develop a sound understanding of Parliament’s oversight role, this does not mean that our Parliament is lacking in terms of this responsibility. On the contrary, we have been very creative in responding to this challenge. We are developing our own oversight practise based on the particular circumstances in our country.

Having said this, it is still imperative that Parliament develop its oversight role in a more formal and structured manner. This has become particularly important in the light of the new base we are moving into with the focus increasingly on a shift away from policy formulation and legislation to implementation.

A good starting point is for Parliament to begin a formal process of evaluating its different oversight activities as distinct from its legislative role and develop a manual on accountability and oversight for MPs and committees and to continually refine it. This can be done by capturing our own best oversight practises and the experience of chairpersons. Such a manual will also facilitate the establishment of an institutional memory which will benefit MPs in the future.

We cannot talk about developing the oversight role of committees without having regard for the capacity of committees to exercise their oversight function. In order to be effective, committees need to be adequately resourced and capacitated. We are of the view that a process should begin which is aimed at building Parliament’s oversight capabilities through adequate resourcing and capacity-building in committees and constituency offices within Parliament’s administrative support structures.

A major concern which could hamper the effectiveness of committees in their oversight work is the regular turnover of staff in the administrative support structures, and in particular in the committee section and the parliamentary research services section. It is of little use for Parliament to invest in the training of committee staff or researchers if some of these staff members see their appointment to the committee section or the research units merely as a stepping stone to employment in Government departments.

Many times their departure leaves a huge void which ultimately translates into operational problems for some committees, which in turn affects their capacity to exercise effective oversight. Continuity in the parliamentary research unit in particular is very important. Research is the lifeblood of committees in so far as oversight is concerned. Without in-depth analysis of departmental documents and reports, committees will find it very difficult to identify key issues which might need their intervention.

In conclusion, research should facilitate parliamentary access and capacity to acquire independently gathered information in order to ensure effective oversight. Currently committees are largely dependent on information elicited from departments themselves. They should not rely on a single information source given the variety of perspectives on and the complexity of many issues and problems.

Ndza khensa. Loko ku ri na timinete leti nga sala ndzi ta titirhisa mundzuku. Inkomu. [Swandla.] [Thanks. I will use the remaining minutes tomorrow. [Applause.]]

Mr N L MONARENG (Free State): Hon Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, hon members from the provincial legislatures, comrades and friends, making good governance a living reality is what oversight seeks to develop, and as it deepens the culture and institutions of democracy, the concept of good governance has come to be understood to cover a very broad field. Although sometimes used interchangeably with democracy, good governance goes beyond traditional conceptions of democracy, and includes social, political and economic aspects.

Some of the key elements of good governance, therefore, include the observance of the rule of law, human rights, transparent economic and co- operative governance, as well as the active participation of civil society and other nonstate actors in national affairs.

There are five dimensions which underpin good governance and sustainable development. These are political, institutional, economic, social and gender. In this debate I am going to talk about these dimensions and oversight as a tool to enhance good governance. The sense in which the term ``good governance’’ is commonly used is in a political dimension, which implies the existence of a multiparty system and the holding of periodic elections. South Africa, since 1994, has been holding elections in an atmosphere that has been judged to be generally free and fair. I believe that a healthy political opposition with media freedom is a necessary balance against Government excess. A related challenge is the prevention and management of conflict, which is also an essential prerequisite for good governance.

There is also a need to develop and strengthen democratic institutions such as the Office of the Ombudsman or the Public Protector, Parliament, the courts, civil society organisations, the Office of the Auditor-General and human rights commissions. These are institutions which play an oversight and monitoring role over the executive, to ensure transparency and accountability in the use of public resources as well as to guard against corruption. I am pleased to know that in South Africa such institutions have been established and Government is continuously consulting them in the process of decision-making and formulating policies.

Good political governance is of little use if it is not accompanied by progress on the economic side. Although our country experienced a modest level of growth in the past few years and it is continuing to grow, the major challenges confronting us are the high level of poverty, unemployment, a high budget deficit and a heavy dependence on the export of primary commodities.

The small size of the economies and markets of the SADC countries makes it difficult to address the challenge of globalisation. SADC was created to make it possible for member states to reap the ecstatic and dynamic gains of regional integration in order to foster economic growth, eradicate poverty, enhance the standard of living of the people of Southern Africa, support the disadvantaged and achieve a sustainable development pattern.

Linked to the economy is the social and human dimension of good governance. Good governance can only thrive in an atmosphere of positive human development. Human development refers to the development that results in enhancing the capacity of people to live long, healthy lives, and acquire relevant skills and knowledge that will enable them to access employment and higher income, increase their productivity and raise their quality of life.

Good governance is ultimately about ensuring a good, happy life for all members of society. It requires, among other things, effective and capable institutions that are able to exploit the advantage of collaboration to their benefit. Measurements of human development have, of late, indicated a decline in the status of human life in the region of the human development index, which contains measures of GDP, per capita life expectancy and adult literacy. In SADC, such regions declined by 5,3% between 1995 and 1998. This is the reason for the state of the economic and human condition prevailing in the region which, in turn, is determined by forces internal and external to the region.

A major cause of decline in human development is the HIV/Aids pandemic, which has eroded some of the socioeconomic gains the region had made in the recent years. Some of our SADC member states have the highest infection rates in the world, and our region has been said to be the epicentre of the pandemic.

The few dimensions of good governance relate to the achievement of equality for women, the youth and the disabled. Equality between women, men and the disabled has come to be recognised as a human right and a democratic and economic imperative. Women in most countries continue to constitute the bulk of the poorest households, and have limited access to productive resources, power and decision-making, education and training, as well as adequate health services.

International experience indicates that collective decisions made in a more participative, egalitarian and democratic manner may yet fail to be translated into action. Those who make the decisions may lack the capacity to implement them. Reasons for failure to implement policies may vary from capacity constraints to logistical issues. Ultimately, these failures may lead to the undermining of good governance and development.

This observation does not argue against the decisions made in a more participative, egalitarian and democratic manner. All it argues is that good intentions alone are not enough. An element of entailing mechanisms of ongoing monitoring and accountability is also required. This is where oversight, a tool to enhance good governance and development, comes in. This oversight role has to be understood in the context of a supportive role in advancing and consolidating democracy.

Our legislatures assume the primary responsibility of fulfilling this role. This role is primarily executed by overseeing the provincial and national executives and the forging of links with the public. Put differently, our legislatures assume the responsibility of lawmaking and of ensuring that those quality laws are implemented efficiently and in a way that is responsive to the needs of the people that we respect.

In conclusion, the oversight role of the legislature should not be seen in abstract or be viewed outside the broader project of national transformation. Oversight has to be integrated into the broader goal of transformation, so that it meets its intended goal of being a tool to enhance good governance and development.

This integration is shown when legislatures become active agents in the constitutional project of transforming the country and avoiding the ever- present temptation of being too technical. Our legislatures should be able to grapple with the challenge of developing new legislation in crucial and critical policy areas that will translate into a better life for all our people.

However, all these good intentions will be undermined if no conscious effort is made to nurture a truly deliberative style of decision-making and to strengthen the link between the people that we represent and the members. Nurturing of these areas will translate our institutions into true instruments and tools of good governance and development, that will deliver a better life for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, the first issue that became clear from the discussions on oversight and accountability in the committee, is that we need to develop a common understanding and acceptance of both the concept and the purpose of oversight and accountability. In so far as the concept of oversight and accountability is concerned, adopting a semantic approach to try and distinguish the two concepts from each other yielded very little profit for the task we had at hand. To borrow the words of Christina Murray at the Idasa workshop on the topic, and I quote, “Oversight and accountability are two sides of the same coin.”

In discussing oversight and accountability in the context of our Constitution, this formulation allows us to make a great deal of progress. In this context, the reason for oversight is to empower Parliament to hold the executive to account. The purpose of oversight and accountability is to give the electorate good government.

I make this statement not to criticise any particular government and I point out that the issues are the same in other jurisdictions, as is clear from the address of Mr Gregg Power of the Hansard society in the UK at this Idasa workshop. Put another way, we can say that oversight and accountability is all about ensuring delivery, for without a proper understanding and use of oversight and accountability we will not be able to control and manage outputs and outcomes; that is, we will not be able to control financial accountability nor will we be able to ensure efficient implementation of policy decisions. In this sense, clearly, oversight and accountability is a tool to enhance good governance and development.

At this stage of the debate we need to avoid clouding the issue. We must concentrate on achieving a common understanding between Government, Parliament and the electorate on both the concept and the purpose of oversight and accountability. I must also add that the obligation to ensure proper oversight and accountability does not fall on an opposition only. Every single member of Parliament, regardless of their political affiliation, must play his or her role to ensure proper oversight and accountability. If members of the governing party allow this to become the exclusive role of the opposition then they are failing in their constitutional obligations and have only themseves to blame for it.

I think it is self-evident that oversight and accountability is a tool to enhance good governance and development. The ad hoc joint committee considered the issues raised in Prof Corder’s report and wrote its own report which included a number of recommendations. Except for recommendation 7, there was agreement on all of these recommendations. The differences are perhaps more properly characterised as a difference in approach rather than a fundamental difference on the issues.

The one approach says let’s develop a manual of best practice on oversight and accountability, and at some later stage consider formalising this document as an Act. The other approach says we should have an Act sooner rather than later, and that this Act should set out the mechanisms for conducting oversight and holding the Government to account. This Act must clarify the relationship between Ministers and directors-general and allocate responsibility between them. This Act must provide a framework for holding a Minister accountable to Parliament.

In my view, a mechanism to enforce oversight and accountability must be both certain and enforceable, otherwise it falls short of the constitutional requirement. The status of a best practice manual will, at best, be ambiguous. It will not have the force of law nor even the procedural authority of the Rules of Parliament. Those that favour the manual approach argue that, and I quote from a report:

The argument that is proposed to effect that legal clout is required to ensure compliance, particularly in a realm of mandatory accountabilities questioned on the basis that, unlike other constitutional democracies, the oversight role of Parliament and the accountability responsibilities are contained in the Constitution.

With respect to those who subscribe to this argument, it is a circuitous argument, because the Constitution does not provide the mechanisms to ensure oversight and accountability and requires the National Assembly to put in place these very mechanisms. The best way to define such mechanisms and give effect to them is in the contemplated Act. Further, those in favour of the manual approach argue in respect of a mandatory accountability that Parliament can legislate to correct problems that come to light with oversight. This approach would be appropriate for general problems, but is highly inappropriate for correcting maladministration in respect of an individual’s situation.

Finally, those in favour of the manual approach argue that an accountability standards Act would compel the executive to comply with specific provisions or face judicial sanctions. However, in my view, before court action could even be contemplated, legislation would give the Presiding Officers clear and unambiguous guidelines of when and how to act to give effect to oversight and enforce accountability. Therefore, it would only be in extreme cases that it would be necessary to resort to the courts. By contrast, as already pointed out, the legal status of the manual will not be clear and will be difficult to enforce. [Applause.] Mr T S SETONA: Hon Chairperson, hon members, allow me to start by quoting one of the legends of our continent, the late President of the ANC, Comrade Oliver Tambo, on the occasion of his response to the Koornhof Bill in 1982. He had this to say:

The key test of any democratic parliament is its ability to be the verdict of our people.

I think the defining phrase here is “our people” and all preceding speakers, Mr Lever, do agree that the key role of Parliament is to serve our people, to oversee the extent to which our executive and all other institutions of state are bettering the lives of our people. We agree on that whole issue of development.

These are the same people who bestowed a democratic mandate on the ANC on 27 April 1994 to lead this country into a united, nonracial, democratic and nonsexist society. Of course, through a very thorough process of consultation, the ANC, together with the broader civil society and other stakeholders, developed a vision in terms of which we are to see how we are going to create this nonracial, democratic, nonsexist and united society. That vision has become what we call the Reconstruction and Development Programme. I think that is the key task of our state. Everything that all our departments are doing is located within the context of this particular socioeconomic framework.

So, unlike many other countries, our Constitution clearly outlines in succinct terms the role of institutions of governance in pursuit of good governance and a better life for all our people. Amongst the core functions of legislatures in this country as enunciated in our Constitution is, firstly, oversight and accountability of the executive - I think Mr Lever is quite correct on this - and generally passing legislation, as well as monitoring the impact of that legislation on the lives of our people. That is exactly what it means, that the centrality of our work is our people.

However, we are rather hampered in this critical task because neither our Constitution nor our parliamentary rules define in exact and unambiguous terms what is meant by oversight in the executive’s exercise of its authority. I think that there is a critical loophole in that. We don’t have benchmarks on the basis of which, as an institution, we are able to define and measure the extent to which we are exercising this oversight function as legislators.

The lack of clarity and standard has at times presented two scenarios, which I think other members have captured. One scenario is the one in which legislatures and parliamentary committees, in particular, become uncritical rubber stamps of executive decisions, which is a very problematic situation. It undermines that critical call by Oliver Tambo which places our people at the centre stage of our work on a daily basis because, by and large, the executive’s primary mandate is to ensure that we push back the frontiers of poverty which afflicts millions of people of this country. So I think we really have to grapple with that particular challenge as we finally consider the report that Mr Lever has alluded to.

The other critical weakness which arises at times is when oversight is understood by legislatures as merely having to play a watchdog role. The opposition, and at times even members of the ruling party, without considering the oversight that Government is doing, would oppose for the sake of opposing without critically researching and knowing exactly what obtained on the ground, and how situations are impacting on the lives of the people.

We welcome the effort by Parliament to commission a report on oversight and accountability. The report that we will debate today will go a long way in clarifying and defining our approach on this matter. In other jurisdictions, like India and the USA, oversight functions of legislatures over the executive are clearly articulated with clear standards which are applied to monitor activities and functions of their governments. Mr Lever has alluded to this thing as captured in our report.

However, we must acknowledge that South Africa is unique, with its own developmental challenges. Over the last nine years we have gradually been redefining and developing our own unique model of oversight based on the peculiarities of our own situation and our experience. I will attempt to highlight the evolution of our oversight with specific reference to the NCOP, covering the following critical areas: firstly, legislative scrutiny. I think our major test in terms of scrutinising legislation, we all agree, has not been informed by anything else but the extent to which that legislation has been compliant with the Constitution of our country, the whole issue of human rights and how it is going to impact on the lives of our people. The second issue is about socioeconomic development. We have been doing that to check how this legislation is going to have socioeconomic implications on our people and co-operative governance.

In locating oversight as a tool to enhance governance and development in the role of the NCOP, we must first define the role of the NCOP as distinct and complementary to other legislatures. Over a period of time we have come to converge on the understanding of the NCOP as a forum that joins three spheres of government into a platform for discussions of issues of national importance. Proceeding from this understanding the NCOP, through its systems and practices, has evolved processes that bring the voices of local and provincial government into the national legislative policy-making processes.

The briefing of provinces by various select committees and local government and the subsequent deriving of a mandate by various select committees is one of the rich experiences we can talk about which has enhanced the capacity of the NCOP to provide scrutiny on the issue of legislation. The NCOP has also adopted systems like provincial weeks which has, in the main, to empower us to monitor policies and legislation in relation to their effectiveness not only on the lives of our people but, more importantly, to the stated goals and aims as agreed to by the executive. In that respect, we have been able to advise the executive on the legislation and policy gaps, which have been amended to a large extent, thus improving the lives of our people.

Added to the programmes of provincial weeks we must actually extend our gratitude to the Presiding Officers of our institution for coming up with an innovative practice and programme of taking Parliament to the people. Inasmuch as we acknowledge that this particular aspect is also central to our Constitution, there is no legislature other than the NCOP that has begun this programme of taking Parliament to the people in more concrete and practical terms.

This programme was not just a mere public relations exercise, but has enabled members of Parliament to interact with our people, to listen to the concerns of our people and also to provide the NCOP with a report-back by way of raising issues with various government departments, in terms of the experiences of people on the ground. We think that is one of the most innovative ways in which the NCOP displayed creativity in exercising oversight.

One must also allude to the fact that, unlike in previous years, provincial weeks in the NCOP are nowadays more focused. In previous times we were focusing on issues of economic development and infrastructure in our various nodal points. For the first time we have been able, not only in the case of a particular select committee but as the entire institution, to have a sense of the developments and the challenges that are facing our Government in terms of delivering in relation to these particular critical aspects. That has been a success.

However, we cannot only continue to talk about the the rosy things that we have done. I think we are also confronted with challenges. One of the critical challenges is to ensure consistent linkage between select committees in the NCOP with the mandate and the work of the committees in the legislature. I think there is a critical weakness around that. Every time we commence a sitting we stand up and pass motions. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Deputy Chair and hon members, the old saying ``when the going gets tough, the tough get going’’ is often true in real life, and no less so in the business of Government.

If we look at the example of the private sector, the best government corporations are those that by definition survive the market test. The public sector is unique in that it comprises both an elected political overseer and a nonelected, nonpolitical executive. At best these two exist in a state of creative tension, challenging and inspiring each other to achieve good governance. However, tough times put pressure on governments because they inevitably have to deliver their best possible performance at exactly the time when the fewest resources are available. This is when government survives or fails the market test.

And this is why, in terms of the crucial role that legislatures play in monitoring and reviewing the actions of the executive organs of government, oversight is one of the most essential tools to enhance good governance and development and must be at its sharpest under the most extreme conditions.

I think one must understand the meaning of two very important concepts, namely the meaning of oversight and that of accountability. In this instance the intended sense of overseeing means that we follow its trajectory from its time of inception through to fulfilment, even though this may not always be the case, given the long-term nature of the governmental process. We continually strive for the best possible.

Our task of overseeing the executive is governed by statute and its end product must be accountable governance in every conceivable sense of the word.

Maar wat is goeie regering? Die begrip “regering” is so oud as die mens en sy beskawing. Kortweg gestel, is dit beide die proses van besluitneming en die proses waardeur besluite geïmplementeer word.

Die regering is slegs een van die akteurs. Ander akteurs kan wissel van invloedryke vakbonde tot klein, maar steeds invloedryke nie-regerings organisasies, finansiële instellings, geestelike leiers, politieke partye, die weermag, navorsingsinstitute en so meer. Op nasionale vlak kan ‘n mens die media, wandelgang rolspelers, georganiseerde misdaad, internasionale donateurs en multi-nasionale korporasies byvoeg. Almal het ‘n rol om te speel in die besluitneming of beïnvloeding van besluite.

Die uitdaging wat ‘n goeie regering moet erken vir werk en uitbou is om selfs in die moeilikste tye die morele leiding te neem wat die respek van die meeste bogenoemde rolspelers sal afdwing. Daar moet nie toegelaat word dat ‘n regering se beste programme in moeilike tye die eerste is wat sneuwel nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[But what is good governance? The concept of governing is as old as mankind and civilisation itself. In a nutshell, it is both the process of decision- making and the process by means of which decisions are implemented.

The government is only one of the actors. Other actors can vary from influential trade unions to small, but still influential non-governmental organisations, financial institutions, spiritual leaders, political parties, the defence force, research institutions, etc. At the national level one can add the media, corridor role-players, organised crime, international donors and multinational corporations. Everybody has a role to play in decision-making or influencing the decision-making.

The challenge which a good government must acknowledge for working and developing is, even in the toughest of times, to give moral guidance which will demand respect from most of the above-mentioned role-players. It should not be allowed that a government’s best programmes are the first to fall in trying times.]

That is exactly when the tough must get going. Dit is juis die tyd dat ons moet sorg dat die beste elemente oorleef. Suid- Afrika se etiese infrastruktuur is stadig-aan besig om te ontwikkel, ten spyte van negatiewe invloede van korrupsie, omkopery, uitbuiting, geldwassery en sommige hoogs twyfelagtige internasionale beleggings wat op beide die psigiese en fisiese terrein die Suid-Afrikaanse samelewing beïnvloed. Ons is almal bewus van die korrupsie en bedrog wat in ons land hoogty vier. So die vraag is, wat moet gedoen word om hierdie virus te keer sodat dit nie die hele waardeketting ontgogel en selfs ineen kan laat stort nie?

Dis tyd vir ‘n beproefde verdedigingsmeganisme en die oplossing is glad nie vergesog nie. Tye is moeilik, maar dis juis nou die beste klimaat om te verseker dat mense wat dit verdien uitgelig, in die hof gedagvaar, en in die openbaar vervolg word. Die spreukwoord sê, ``sagte hande maak stinkende wonde’’. As ons deur ons optrede of nalatigheid toegelaat het dat korrupte invloede insluip, moet ons die pyn kan vat. Daarom sê ek ‘n proaktiewe, buigbare, defensiewe, vooruitdenkende strategie wat deur almal aanvaar word, wat ‘n maatskaplike verantwoordelikheid vir die medemens dwarsdeur die Suid-Afrikaanse milieu sal skep, is ‘n prioriteit.

Indien die King-verslag van 1994 suksesvol gegenereer kan word, sal Suid- Afrika ten opsigte van skoon regering met die beste regerings ter wêreld kan meeding. Hopelik sal dit meebring dat meer groot spelers op ons effektebeurs sal aanbly en dat bona fide internasionale beleggers ‘n aansienlike verbetering in die huidige situasie sal teweegbring.

Ons parastatale entiteite behoort dan aantreklik genoeg teikens vir privatisering te wees, maar dit hang daarvan af dat die persepsie dat hulle relatief vry van korrupsie en nepotisme is, herstel en uitgebou word. Die uitvoerende gesagstrukture, oor wie ons toesig moet hou, het in die afgelope jare geweldige veranderinge ondergaan. In die Wes-Kaap provinsie bestaan daar nou byvoorbeeld een munisipaliteit vir elke drie van die verlede. Al die nuwe rolspelers moet ‘n kans gegun word om te ontwikkel en dié wat nie die mas opkom nie, van hulle moet ontslae geraak word. Dit is ook een van ons belangrikste oorsigrolle: Om te sorg dat die mense nie immoreel vet salaristjeks, wat hulle moontlik nie verdien het nie, in die bank betaal terwyl ons jong dokters, ons verpleegsters, ons opvoeders, ons polisie en ander harde werkers harde bene kou. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This is precisely the time when we should ensure that the best elements survive. South Africa’s ethical infrastructure is slowly developing, despite negative influences of corruption, bribery, exploitation, money- laundering and some highly doubtful international investments that influence South African society both on the psychological as well as the physical terrain. We are all aware of the corruption and fraud that currently reign supreme in our country. So the question is, what must be done to stop this virus so that it does not disillusion the whole value chain or even cause it to collapse?

It is time for proven defence mechanisms and the solution is not in the least far-fetched. Times are tough, but that is precisely why now is the best climate to ensure that people who deserve it are singled out, brought before a court of law and publicly prosecuted. The proverb says ``you have to be cruel to be kind’’. If we, by our actions or omissions, allowed corrupt influences to creep in, we must be able to pay the price. That is why I say a proactive, flexible, defensive, pre-emptive strategy that is accepted by everyone, which will create a social responsibility for fellow human beings throughout the South African milieu, is a priority.

If the King Report of 1994 could be successfully generated, South Africa would be able to compete with the best governments in the world as far as clean governance is concerned. Hopefully this will have as result that more big players will stay on at our stock exchange and that bona fide international investors will bring about a considerable improvement in the present situation.

Our parastatal entities should then be attractive enough targets for privatisation, but this depends on the perception that they could be restored and expanded relatively free from corruption and nepotism. The executive authority structures, that we must oversee, in recent years underwent tremendous changes. For example, in the Western Cape at present there is one municipality for every three of the past. All the new role- players must be given a chance to develop and those that cannot make it must be got rid of.

This is also one of the most important oversight roles: To ensure that people do not bank immorally fat salary cheques, which they probably did not earn, while our young doctors, our nurses, our educators, our police and other hard workers are struggling to make ends meet. I thank you.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Thank you, Chairperson. Deputy Chairperson, special delegates and members of this House, we must not adopt a simplistic view of governance. Governance is not only about things Government must do such as having regular elections, effective administration and securing peace and security. Governance, moreover, means that the Government must do things in ways that allow people to believe that they have a stake in Government and governance. Governance is not only about representivity and legitimacy, or, like Mrs Versfeld, asking questions about fishing only. [Interjections.] These are essential, but governance is most importantly about accounting to the citizens.

While governance is about exercising political power, the need to account to citizens is indispensable. The point to be made here is that politics is as important to successful development as economics. For far too long, governance was viewed only in terms of economic progress and administrative efficiency, as if these were the only components of good governance.

Good governance requires the establishment and strengthening of institutions which are able to hold the executive and powerful individuals to account. With these introductory remarks, I now wish to discuss oversight. There are many dimensions to the subject of oversight as a tool to enhance good governance and development. Firstly, there is the ideological imperative. We as elected representatives could raise the following questions when exercising our oversight responsibilities. For example, we should continuously raise the question: To what extent do resources distributed by a government, whether national, provincial or local, reflect the policy decision taken by the democratic forces?

Mrs A M VERSFELD: Like fishing!

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: The school feeding scheme remains our passionate interest; our children, Mrs Versfeld, not the sea children! Our Government is very clear about one thing: Our children must not go to school hungry. [Interjections.] While the integrated nutrition programme may not have been as successful as we would like it to be, it remains our cherished project, and it is consistent with our transformation agenda. It’s not about those who don’t come to the House, like Krumbock. [Interjections.] Policy intervention by national Government is consistent with objectives of the democratic forces. [Interjections.] A key function of our presence in the national Parliament is to exercise oversight over the executive. Whilst oversight is not limited to endorsing or authorising national or provincial executives’ expenditure and revenue proposals, the oversight role also relates to ensuring that national and provincial departments and governments meet their performance standards.

A budget is simply a planning tool. To determine whether it is good or bad depends on the extent to which it addresses our objectives. The progressing outcomes of our policy intervention, whether by national, provincial or local government, are the test of our achievements. National Government has, for example, increased access to basic education. More children attend schools today than under the previous regime.

The extension of the social safety net is one of the postapartheid Government’s greatest achievements. It has seen the number of social grant beneficiaries increase from 2,5 million in April 1997 to 5,6 million in March this year. The value of grants has also increased over this period.

Besides being transparent, our Government has democratically developed and pursues a legislative agenda, which is commensurate with the objectives of progressive forces supporting transformation in this country. The progressive outcome and contents of our legislation, in essence, are the real tests of the outcomes of the Government. National Government has implemented policy choices in a manner that makes it accountable to the people we serve.

The oversight role has another dimension and this relates to our role as members of the NCOP, a House that has provincial interest as the foundation of its activities. The main brief of NCOP members and members of the provincial legislatures is to collectively exercise oversight over the provincial budgets. In this regard it becomes crucial to raise pertinent questions in this House and the provincial legislatures on their expenditure patterns.

Members of Parliament and citizens of this country must play a more active and vital role in monitoring spending by all spheres of government. If discrepancies exist in financial reporting, it is likely that discrepancies will be revealed on delivery as well. Moreover, MPs and MPLs should exercise extraordinary vigilance in order to monitor the spending patterns of conditional grants to provincial departments.

The public, for example, could raise the following questions: To what extent do the Budget and resources it allocates adequately reflect policy decisions taken by the province or the national Government of the entire country? To what extent do financial inputs produce the desired outputs and outcomes? We need to distinguish between the outputs and the outcomes.

Assuming that a workshop on immunisation against TB is held, the output of this workshop would be a conference to report the outcome of the workshop and the increase, if any, in the rate of immunisation and the reduction, if any, in the rate of TB incidence.

Has there been an increase in the number of beneficiaries of social grants, for example, between 1995 and this year? What proportion of total revenues comprises own revenue for provinces and municipalities? Are provinces and local governments collecting and spending revenues effectively and efficiently? Are any provinces contemplating instituting provincial taxes in terms of the Provincial Tax Regulation Process Act? Have provinces allocated an additional amount for contingency reserves? How will it be utilised in the new financial year? These are just some of the questions elected representatives and members of the public could raise. I hope I’ve managed to alert you to some of the pertinent issues and challenges facing public finances and our finance oversight.

Lastly, I wish to say I hope I heard “Good!” more often than “Bad!” from the member behind me. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order, Mrs Ntwanambi, order. [Laughter.] You’ve said what you’ve said. Now I can see you’re picking a fight between the two of you. [Laughter.]

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson:

It is in the legislatures that the instruments have been fashioned to create a better life for all. It is here that oversight of government has been exercised. It is here that our society in all its formations has had an opportunity to influence policy and its implementation.

These were the words of former President Nelson Mandela in 1999.

Alhoewel ons parlementêre sisteem die konsep van partyregering en ‘n kabinet verantwoordelik aan die wetgewer behou het, voorsien ons Grondwet ‘n baie sterker en belangriker rol vir Suid-Afrikaanse wetgewers as wetgewers in tipiese Westminster-sisteme. Wetgewers in die Westminster- tradisie slaag nie goed daarin om in dié tydperke tussen verkiesings regerings verantwoordbaar te hou nie. In sulke sisteme word die taak van oorsig normaalweg aan die opposisie oorgelaat, wat net fokus op die swak punte van die regering in hulle pogings om daardie regering te diskrediteer en te probeer vervang. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Although our parliamentary system retained the concept of party government and a cabinet responsible to the legislature, our Constitution provides a much stronger and more important role to South African legislatures than those in typically Westminster systems. Legislatures in the Westminster tradition do not succeed well in holding governments accountable in the periods between elections. In such systems the task of oversight is normally left to the opposition, who only focus on the weak points of the government in their efforts to discredit and attempt to replace that government.]

We have also seen this perspective in our country in the DA’s attitude of “what is bad for the country is good for the DA”. [Interjections.] Accountability and oversight are crucial aspects of the representative role of legislatures which should not be left to opposition parties only. It is much too important for that. I’m glad Mr Lever seems to agree with this. [Interjections.]

The need for all members of Parliament to actively fulfil their oversight function is all the more acute when one party is dominant, and regular or frequent change of Government is highly unlikely. I’m glad that in this House members of the majority party have, clearly, started to take their oversight role very seriously. This shows, for example, from the number of questions being asked by members of the majority party and, may I add, the quality of those questions. [Interjections.]

It is important to show the voters that they do not have to support an opposition party which has a confrontational, negative, fight-back approach to politics to ensure good and clean government. [Interjections.] With the DA’s style this will even be counterproductive to their interests. [Interjections.] The public representatives belonging to the ANC and the New NP are, as they should be, in any event already doing a much better job of oversight and keeping the executive accountable than the members of the DA. [Interjections.]

There are different tools and practices that can and must be used by members for a legislature to fulfil its constitutional obligation to hold the executive properly accountable. Oversight practices must, however, be thoroughly integrated in all its work. The whole political and administrative environment must support good oversight practices. Committees and plenary sessions should complement each other in the oversight process.

In addition, certain key practices should drive the oversight process. These are question time, motions, special plenary debates, the consideration of committee reports in the plenary, the annual budget process and scrutiny of departmental reports.

Provinces need to consider how to use question time in this House. Provincial legislatures can and should request their permanent delegates to ask specific questions on their behalf to the Ministers at the national level. Provinces can and should of course also use their permanent delegates to propose motions on their behalf. When it is in respect of a matter for which there is unanimous support in this House, such a motion can become a resolution of this House, which will carry much weight with the executive. In cases of such resolutions also containing a request, the executive has, as far as I know, always acceded to such request from this House.

The provinces should also be able to ascertain where there are problems with the implementation of certain aspects of national Acts of Parliament in the province. In such an instance, or when they find that new legislative initiatives are required to enhance good governance, development and better delivery of services, they can and should request one of their delegates to this House to submit a legislative proposal in this House.

I conclude with the remarks of President Mbeki in his address to this House in 1999 on this topic, when he said:

We are certain that if our elected representatives, in all the spheres of governance, maintain close contact with the people, they will themselves contribute significantly to the achievement of the national objective of accelerating the improvement of the quality of life of the people, by properly discharging their oversight function over the executive authorities in all spheres of government.

I thank you. [Applause.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! Hon members, before I call the next speaker, I wish to make a ruling. I would like to make a ruling on the objection that was raised by the hon Mr Van Niekerk that the motion by the hon Mrs Vilakazi is sub judice. This motion was moved on 3 June 2003.

The motion moved by Mrs Vilakazi is sub judice for the following reasons: Firstly, some of the allegations contained in the motion are still under investigation; secondly, some of these cases mentioned in the motion are still before the courts and have not been finalised.

May I mention that even though, as politicians, we have a duty to address issues on behalf of our constituencies, if motions put in the House may have an influence on the due administration of justice, such motions should be disallowed. Therefore the motion is disallowed. I thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, we can say that our democracy has now matured when a member of the opposition starts his speech with a quotation by our former President and concludes his address with a statement by our current President. We welcome this development, and it’s an initiative which says that as a nation we are going in the right direction.

I think it is important to express our gratitude to members Mr Monareng and Mr Gelderblom for specifically coming to this Chamber to debate this very important area. We must, at the same time, also express our sincere gratitude for the very creative and incisive suggestion by the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces that the aspect of accountability should include the element of good governance and development. Perhaps by the inclusion of these two elements we would be better able to understand or demystify this somewhat difficult concept of oversight.

In trying to unpack or demystify the concept, I certainly am not endeavouring to oversimplify but, rather, to say, as other speakers before me have said, that the basis of oversight has to derive from the Constitution. In terms of the Constitution, we have to start off with the basis of the underlying values that are set out in the Constitution, and they are, as I’ve said previously, the affirmation of human dignity, and the achievement of equality and freedom.

The Constitution also deals with the separation of powers, referred to by Mr Setona. The tension that exists between the executive and the legislature, as a result of this particular separation, must be understood. The Constitution also reflects on the nature of co-operative governance in that it should not be acrimonious, but move towards resolving issues of dispute and that it is committed to achieving a national unity and a national identity. That is the framework within which it should be understood.

The Constitution also says - other than referring to Parliament or the executive and to all components of Government as being accountable and endowing the responsibility on Parliament to oversee the activity of the executive - that it should be responsive.

If the Constitution is, in fact, the soul of the nation and reflects the aspirations of the nation, it is our duty as public representatives to ensure that in its commitment the executive, through its policies and through the laws that it initiates in this Parliament, ensures that there is, in fact, an achievement of equality and that the laws reflect the kind of framework or the dispensation that has been set out in our Constitution.

Certainly, the starting point has to be the Bill of Rights. Other than guaranteeing civil liberties, it also reflects on the socioeconomic rights of our people. We should constantly ask ourselves, and confront this question: Is the legislation consistent with the supreme law of this land, the Constitution? The Constitution has a Bill of Rights, which includes socioeconomic rights and which, in fact, reflects a need of this country to push back the frontiers of poverty and to change the quality of the lives of our people. Having understood that framework, one then tries to unpack the legislative role in the context of the National Assembly. It says quite categorically and specifically that it should oversee the work of the executive, its decisions and its laws, and it should also be accountable.

In terms of the NCOP, other than referring to a very important area in terms of the separation of powers, Mr Setona, it therefore specifically enjoins this Council to look closely at section 100, which deals with intervention by national Government into provincial government; and section 139, which looks at intervention of provincial government into local government, to say that there should not be encroachment on the integrity of different spheres of government. That is its specific responsibility.

But, then, it also provides us with an inherent responsibility, which allows us to call the executive to account in this particular House, and that must be understood.

Now, that is the one element. The other element is obviously the legislative element, the responsibility of ensuring that there is proper and adequate legislative scrutiny. That is an important element of oversight, and we should do our job as legislators correctly, whether we are in the national Parliament or in our provincial legislature.

Another element is to ask whether in what we do, we are in fact fostering co-operative governance. Are we ensuring that the kind of laws that are being passed, or the policies that emanate from the executive, which the Constitution says quite categorically derive from the executive, are being shaped and refined in a way that is suitable and consistent with the objectives of the Constitution?

Do these laws reflect the kind of co-operative nature set out in our Constitution? The purpose, therefore, in terms of our oversight, is to ensure that we have uniformity and a cohesive Government aimed at the achievement of national unity and a national identity of all our peoples. We should also look carefully at our Chapter 9 institutions which, again, support the role of oversight. They are independent institutions, independent of Parliament, which play a particular role in ensuring that these objectives of nonracialism and nonsexism, alluded to by the hon Setona, are in fact dealt with.

What the Chairperson has done by introducing these two elements is two things: it has separated process, in terms of good governance, from substance in terms of delivery. I think development is attached to delivery; process did not develop into good governance.

As parliamentarians, to have good governance it has to be transparent, it has to be participatory, it has to be people-centred and people-driven. We should constantly ask ourselves: Are the laws and policies of this Government being disseminated to the public? Are they participating in an active and meaningful way? That is good governance. Whatever is being done, is it being done transparently? To what extent are we engaging with it? And, in terms of development, are we ensuring that these policies and these laws have an adequate impact on transforming the lives of our people? That is the sociopolitical aspect that was referred to by Comrade Monareng which is very critical in terms of our oversight role. I think that must be understood.

Then, in terms of the tools at our disposal - Chairperson, I’m rushing because it is late, and I have limited time - we have public hearings, we have questions, we have motions, we have subjects for discussion, we have plenaries. We have budgets which get analysed - that was referred to by Comrade Ntwanambi - which is a very important instrument to measure oversight, to measure implementation, to measure development. Unless we use these tools in a meaningful way, we are not going to achieve the actual role.

In rounding off, I should say that we should also look carefully at committees. Committees are transparent. They allow people - the public - to participate. All sectors of the public may participate, such as civil society, NGOs, transnational organisations. Whoever has an interest in any law or any policy is entitled to participate in a transparent way in our committees. Therefore they, too, become tools of oversight.

In terms of the position taken by Mr Lever - and I am raising a point that he reflected on - before we look at statutory obligations, we must ask: What tools are at our disposal? There is the Public Finance Management Act and the Municipal Finance Management Act which we are going to have now, as well as various guidelines to which the executive is bound. Are they adequate in terms of fulfilling our role of oversight and accountability? If they are indeed, perhaps a guideline would be appropriate.

Has the executive been guilty of holding this House, or the other House of Parliament, in contempt? Has it been accountable? Has it been responsive? To my mind, the answer has to be in the affirmative. The executive has not interfered in the other sphere of government. It has not interfered in the judiciary. It has respected the rules.

Therefore a guideline at this stage would be more appropriate. If there are challenges from the executive in terms of the integrity of Parliament, as a separate sphere, a separate leg of Government, then, certainly, it is something that we have to look at.

So, perhaps, to end, I would like to say that there will always be a creative tension between the executive and the legislature. But the legislature must always understand that its role is to ensure that the underlying values of the Constitution, the commitment of policies which are determined to change the quality of life of our people and to push back the frontiers of poverty, are in fact fulfilled through those policies and through this legislation.

In doing so, we will fulfil our roles as public representatives. Perhaps an element which we tend to ignore is the last leg of our oversight, and that is in our constituencies. Inasmuch as the executive is accountable to Parliament, we are accountable to the public. And until we fulfil that particular role and relate with our constituencies, through our constituency offices, we are not adequately fulfilling our oversight role.

So I hope I have assisted in demystifying what has been raised very creatively by the members. I would also like to say thank you to Mrs Nkuna and members of the committee who have done extremely well in providing this Parliament with a very comprehensive and structured report in terms of oversight and accountability. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 19:24. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the SADC Protocol on Fisheries, dated 4 June 2003:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Southern African Development Community Protocol on Fisheries, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

 Report to be considered.

Insert doc “rep-ger.lap” from disk (hard copy attached).