THURSDAY, 5 JUNE 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at: 14:01.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                   CRIME SITUATION IN SOUTH AFRICA

                         (Notice of Motion)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the crime situation in South Africa is not under control;


   (b)  people of all races throughout the country are suffering under
       an onslaught of criminality which undermines the fabric of our
       society and threatens the rule of law;


   (c)  too many victims of crime have lost faith in the system, to the
       extent that they refuse to even report crimes to the SAPS;


   (d)  some people, usually the unenlightened, tend to blame the values
       and the provisions of the Constitution for the fact that the
       crime levels are so high;


   (e)  the Minister of Safety and Security has placed a blackout on
       vital information concerning crime levels, in the mistaken
       belief that people will believe that no news is good news;


   (f)  the confidence of people in the rural areas has been shaken
       because of the ill-advised presidential announcement that the
       commando system is to be phased out, when both he and the
       Government have failed to spell out exactly what means of
       security would be introduced to replace the commandos, as well
       as provide better safety and protection for farmers and
       farmworkers, who have every reason to fear for their lives and
       their possessions;


   (g)  there are numerous instances of parents whose children have been
       killed in gunfire between gangs, who seem to own areas of the
       Cape Flats, and where no one has been arrested, let alone tried,
       convicted and punished for these crimes;


   (h)  almost every day a policeman is killed in our country, with only
       a small minority of those murders being solved and the murderers
       brought to book;


   (i)  the police stations around our land are understaffed, many of
       our policemen and policewomen are underskilled and undertrained,
       and many are grossly underequipped;
   (j)  many of our police personnel are overstretched because of the
       deficiencies in staffing and equipment and, in addition to
       shockingly high levels of stress and suicide, many do not
       deliver results of which they and we can be proud;


   (k)  too often this Government goes for gesture politics instead of
       taking action such as the often-repeated concern about crimes
       against children, but the failure to improve the Child
       Protection Units; and


   (l)  our criminal justice system is weak when it should be strong.

(2) therefore resolves that …

[Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Gibson, could I ask you to cut your notice of motion short, if possible, in keeping with the current discussions and guidelines.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I may say, Chairperson, that this was discussed with the Speaker today at a meeting of all the Whips, and it was stressed and agreed upon by all the parties that there is no Rule which prevents motions from being read in their entirety.

That is what happened yesterday when the hon Mr Smith read his motion. In the same happy spirit, I have these matters on my heart … [Interjections.] I am at the resolution stage; perhaps I could continue?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on a point of order: It is untrue to say that there was an agreement at the meeting with the Speaker earlier this afternoon. Mr Gibson knows that that is not the truth.

We are appealing that, much as the Rule itself does not put or prescribe any time limit in so far as notices of motion are concerned, it has always been an accepted practice that notices of motion are just that, as opposed to statements and speeches. Therefore, in this regard, that is the kind of understanding that should be met, and this motion is not in line with that established understanding.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, may I address you on that point of order? The hon Chief Whip …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Gibson, I am going to ask you to proceed with giving notice of that motion, but we really cannot allow a situation where it turns into a statement or a speech. You did say that you were at the tail end. I was not party to that discussion, so I am at a disadvantage. But I must then say that you must try to be brief.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, may I address you on a point of order before I do that? The hon Chief Whip accused me of knowingly telling an untruth in the House, and I ask you to instruct him to withdraw that. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Gibson, I am giving you the opportunity to conclude your notice of motion. I am sure a discussion will take place where that can be resolved. This would be outside the proceedings of this House, where the actual discussion started this afternoon. I would like to say that we should conclude the notices of motion. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I will do that in terms of your direction in a moment. But the hon Chief Whip accused me of telling an untruth in the House, and he must withdraw that! [Interjections.] If he wants to make that sort of statement about me, in terms of the Rules, he must move a substantive motion. Otherwise he must be instructed to withdraw. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Take your seat please, hon Gibson. Hon Chief Whip, the statement that ``Mr Gibson knows that that is not the truth’’ is unparliamentary. Could you withdraw that part of your statement, please?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I withdraw. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Chairperson.

(2) therefore resolves that:

   (a)  all possible steps be taken to ensure that South Africa's
       criminal justice system is strengthened;


   (b)  our country cannot afford to allow a lack of resources or
       finances to stand in the way of getting crime under control;


   (c)  we, in particular, urge the Government to increase the number of
       policemen and policewomen to 150 000;


   (d)  those policemen and policewomen be stationed mainly at police
       stations throughout the country, and in the neighbourhoods of
       the streets where we live;


   (e)  those additional policemen and policewomen be properly trained
       and adequately equipped;


   (f)  agreed standards of service between the police and the public be
       embodied in performance contracts;


   (g)  those who meet the agreed standards be rewarded and promoted,
       and those who fail be fired; and


   (h)  all steps be taken to restore the faith of our people that crime
       will be detected and criminals punished.

[Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Mr Chairman, on a point of order: I am wondering if we would not be in a position to subject the motion that was read to scrutiny on Monday, when the meeting - which I chair - that deals particularly with this subject can see whether it conforms with what our task committee laid down as the Rules. I request that this be done, in order that we have a clear determination on the subject. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, may I address you on that point of order? If it was a point of order, which I query, then the hon member who raised it must either say that what I have said is out of order, or keep quiet. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I want to remind you that there is an outstanding ruling which the Speaker addressed this House on yesterday. The motions that were mentioned, ie the motions of Ms Taljaard and Mr Smith, are being looked at and we will refer this motion to that process as well. We will ask the Speaker to then rule on all three motions.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 28 - Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Thank you very much, Chairperson. We have present in the House with us today a man who has just arrived from the magnificent feat of being the first African to have climbed Mount Everest, Mr Sibusiso Vilane. [Applause.] Cheers! He is a true African hero. I think the applause from members of Parliament, Mr Vilane, speaks for itself. You make us proud to be South Africans. You make us proud to be Africans. [Applause.]

We live in a truly great country. At times we are so consumed by the task of transformation and the struggle to eradicate the remnants of apartheid that we are not cognisant of our own greatness as a nation and our emergence as world leaders in so many walks of life. This was again highlighted during the World Summit on Sustainable Development. Our people did us proud. As a country we rose to the occasion. South Africans joined hands as ordinary citizens, community organisations, business and Government to deliver an outstandingly successful summit. South Africa excelled in the logistics, the warm hospitality, the innovation at the Ubuntu Exhibition and the skill and diplomacy in negotiations.

The over 100 world leaders and the tens of thousands of other guests at the summit were profoundly impressed with the organisation. Special recognition, of course, must go, not to the Minister or to the department, but to our volunteers; our young ambassadors who showed such warmth and helpfulness to our guests from around the world.

In difficult and complex negotiations, South Africa’s facilitation skills enabled the world to adopt the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation, a global programme to put our planet onto a sustainable growth path, a growth and development path that would provide adequately for all who live in the world today and at the same time not deny future generations the resources to provide for themselves. In the words of Mahatma Gandhi, the earth provides enough to satisfy everybody’s needs, but not every person’s greed. When we take more than we need, we are simply taking from each other and borrowing from the future.

In the build-up to the summit, our President travelled to Rio de Janiero, Brazil, to symbolically receive the torch of responsibility for global sustainability and global sustainable development from the President of Brazil. With this act South Africa was being asked by the world to be the global champion of sustainable development for at least the next decade. At the handing-over ceremony, President Mbeki said: Our very development model is questioned daily by the earth’s ecosystem, on which all life and all economic activity is dependent. Our patterns of consumption and production cannot be left unchecked. Nobody can truthfully argue that there is a larger human imperative or decisive constraint that makes it obligatory that we must destroy the environment.

The Johannesburg summit identified poverty eradication as the single greatest challenge facing the world. Through the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation, it linked this with global efforts to change unsustainable patterns of consumption and production and the protection of the natural resource base. For South Africa these were not new issues. In fact, in many ways the Reconstruction and Development Programme, the RDP, of this last decade has been a living testimony that these objectives are achievable.

South Africa has on its own already surpassed some of the targets that the world had set for itself at the summit. Our massive post-apartheid reconstruction and development has made us implementers of sustainable development best practice that the world now admires.

Examples of sustainable development abound in the work of every government department. Some examples from this portfolio are the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park, where we have brought jobs and development to one of our most beautiful but poorest of rural areas; the transformation of our fishing industry, where careful management of our fishing resources has now allowed us to put more fish in the hands of poor people and emerging entrepreneurs, especially women; the growth of tourism is creating jobs and sustainable incomes in towns and villages across the country. Through these and many more examples, South Africa has proved that economic growth, social development and the protection of the environment can be complementary. Because of our practice, many around the world see South Africans as appropriate custodians of the global sustainable development agenda.

I would like to present the work of the department to you as it relates to the three key objectives of the Johannesburg summit, namely poverty eradication, sustainable consumption and production, and the protection and management of natural resources. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism contributes to the war against poverty and inequality through development, empowerment and job creation in the tourism, fishing, conservation and environmental industries. In these industries, we are deliberately bringing a new generation of black-owned companies and communities into the mainstream economy.

South Africa is now a tourism nation, proudly nurturing its rich history, culture and environment as key economic resources. This strategy is paying off well. We have become the fastest-growing tourism destination in the world. Our tourism industry has grown every year since 1994 and in the last year has risen to new heights despite adverse global trends. Notwithstanding the global situation, it is my pleasure to announce that for the first quarter of 2003, overseas arrivals increased by 11,2%. Clearly the world sees us as a preferred destination.

According to the World Tourism Organisation, tourism is one of the biggest contributors to global economic and employment growth in both developed and developing countries. It is projected that by 2011, the travel and tourism industry will contribute 11% of global gross domestic product and account for 19% of total employment and more than 260 million jobs worldwide. Our intention is to ensure that South Africa continues to be a world leader in pursuit of a fair share of the global market.

As the benefits of this growth are felt in small towns and communities across the country, we push back the frontiers of poverty. We aim to make every community in South Africa feel its benefits. A few examples are instructive. The Hector Peterson Memorial, a project funded by the department, is now the most visited tourist site in Soweto. In the Zululand economic development project in Stanger-Kwadukuza, an investment of R1,5 million has resulted in a R13,8 million project employing over 100 people. The tourism enterprise programme has created more than 10 000 jobs over the last three years. Work done over this period amounts to R585 million and 646 black-owned enterprises have been assisted. This is one of the many successes scored in the partnership between Government and the private sector in the form of the Business Trust.

The department has addressed poverty and sustainable development through projects in tourism infrastructure, tourism product development, wetland rehabilitation, waste management and coastal development. Thus far we have spent R667 million on 398 community projects. About 78% of this amount has been spent in rural areas and 38% has been spent in the rural nodes. These projects have created 2 000 permanent jobs and many more temporary jobs.

I must mention that the department’s record of expenditure of poverty relief funds has resulted in an increased allocation from Treasury over the years, growing from R70 million in 1999-2000 to R240 million in 2002-03, the entire amount being spent by March 2003. For the current financial year the allocation has been increased to R300 million.

We have also achieved some best practice local development initiatives. Amongst many projects we have managed to establish and develop in the Wild Coast is the Mbotyi Campsite, which is entirely owned by the local community and operated in partnership with private business. The mobile craft training project in Barberton is quite unique in the sense that it puts state-of-the-art technology, such as Internet access via satellite, at the disposal of the remotest of rural communities, enabling them to follow the latest fashion trends in the world, and hence to design and produce arts and crafts that could demand high prices on international markets. Some crafters have been able, in this way, to secure orders from the United States of America, for example.

Our work on poverty eradication goes hand-in-hand with our efforts to transform our economy and society. The tourism and fishing sectors are areas of our economy where we have been able to make very rapid progress. This was evident at the Tourism Indaba, one of the world’s premier travel trade shows. A total of 263 black-owned SMMEs exhibited at this year’s indaba. This is up from a mere 34 in 2000.

There is similar progress in the fishing industry. In the apartheid days, only 400 quotas or fishing rights were allocated, all to entirely white firms on a buddy-buddy basis. We have expanded the total number of rights allocated to 2 200, of which 1 700 are to SMMEs and 60% of all fishing rights allocated have gone to companies which are majority black-owned and managed.

In addition we have issued 859 subsistence fishing rights to communities in KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape. Among the individual rights holders are, for the first time, a significant number of women. In the Eastern Cape 337 women have subsistence fishing rights, and in the Western Cape, 152 women have been allocated limited commercial rights. I would like to pay tribute to the many women who have now displayed through their practice that fishing should not just be a men’s-only industry. [Applause.]

Ek wil nou kyk na die tradisionele Weskuskuns van treknetvissery. Die departement het onlangs ‘n ondersoek onderneem om te verseker dat treknetpermitte gaan aan mense wat dit verdien.

Dit is ‘n groot plesier vir my om aan te kondig dat die departement vroeër vandag 45 vrystellings in die Olifantsriviermondgebied uitgedeel het aan behoeftige vissersmense. Die suksesvolle applikante is tans met ons hier in die galery. [Applous.]

Ons gaan nou dieselfe doen in Velddrif en ander dele van die Weskus. Ek wil ook Mnr Noel Williams bedank vir sy uitstekende werk wat dit moontlik gemaak het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I now want to look at the traditional West Coast art of trawl-net fishing. The department recently undertook an investigation to ensure that trawling permits go to the people who deserve them.

It gives me great pleasure to announce that the department allocated 45 exemptions in the Olifants River Mouth area to needy fishers earlier today. The successful applicants are here with us on the gallery. [Applause.]

We are now going to do the same in Velddrif and other parts of the West Coast. I also want to thank Mr Noel Williams for his excellent work which made this possible.] Within the department we have worked on transforming our procurement systems. I can now report that 40% of all procurement in the department goes to black-owned companies. We will increase this to 50% by the end of this financial year.

There are some areas where progress has been slower than is desirable, such as in the tour guide sector. I am disappointed that the tourism industry, in general, is not employing black tour guides. Apart from the fact that this is a racially discriminatory approach which has no place in a free South Africa, the industry fails to realise that the diversity of South Africans is what many tourists find extremely attractive. Repeated calls on the industry have fallen on deaf ears. Unless there is a reasonable response from the industry, I will announce a quota in this regard. I will do this on 27 September 2003 on the occasion of World Tourism Day.

The WSSD also agreed on a 10-year framework of programmes for sustainable production and consumption. The department is already giving consideration to such a framework for our country.

The total urban solid waste stream in South Africa is 15 million tons. Mr Vilane, it is almost like Mount Everest. We are literally producing a mountain of waste every year, and most of this goes into landfills. But there is only so much waste that can be disposed of like this, hence the recent actions we took to reduce littering in our country, by banning the production of thin plastic bags. [Applause.]

I want to take this opportunity to thank retailers for implementing the regulations so speedily and for being so co-operative. We know that it is not business as usual, as this requires redirection and considerable adjustments, but it took place smoothly. I also want to thank and congratulate the consumers who are not just co-operating very well, but are also showing support to the environment by making this switch over with enthusiasm.

The plastic bag regulations came into effect on 9 May 2003 and are the result of a binding agreement between Government, labour and business in September last year. The aim of this agreement was to clean up, promote re- use, reduce and recycle as well as ensure that no job losses occur.

The agreement specifies that the minimum thickness of plastic bags should be 30 microns and that printing on the bag should not exceed 25% of the outside surface area of the bag. This would make the product recyclable. In accordance with this agreement, a section 21 company has been established to create job opportunities in the recycling industry. It will manage a waste plastic collection system. This section 21 company will be funded through a levy on the manufacture of plastic bags, as announced by the Minister of Finance on 21 February in the Budget.

We believe that the price of plastic bags should be transparent and that the hidden costs should be removed from food prices. The illusion exists that we are only now paying for plastic bags. In fact we have been paying for plastic bags in the past, whether we used them or not, as the price was included in the price of goods. We are advocating now that these hidden costs of plastic bags be removed from food prices in order to give consumers a choice as to whether or not they want to pay for a bag.

Chairperson, I am glad to announce that the reports we are receiving through the department’s hotline on plastic bags show visible signs of the absence of plastic bags in the environment even at this early stage.

We now need to turn our attention - and we will do so this year - to other priority waste streams. Some of the sectors of industry have been very good at recycling, for example paper and board, over 90% of which is recycled, while 60% of metal is recycled in this country. We will focus our attention this year on the recycling of tyres and glass.

There are other groundbreaking advances being made. The Air Quality Management Bill will be tabled in Parliament during this session. The Minister of Minerals and Energy will announce the Government’s policy on renewable energy within a few weeks.

South African industry has itself responded to the challenges for a sustainable global system of production and consumption. A few initiatives stand out as international best practice. For example, the Johannesburg Stock Exchange will be launching its sustainability index at the end of this year. This is in line with the King Report and aims to fast-track businesses’ approach to reporting on a set of indicators that match the best available internationally. I believe that all these initiatives, together, give us a strong basis on which to develop South Africa’s own ten- year framework for sustainable production and consumption.

Let us look at the protection of natural resources. According to the United Nations Environment Programme, at least 70% of the world’s fish stocks are depleted or fully exploited. This stands in contrast with South Africa where we have a proud record of properly managing our rich fishing resources.

We are improving surveillance and monitoring. In 2002 the department imposed a fine of R500 000 on the owners of the foreign tuna vessel, the Golden Eagle, fishing in South African waters. Our satellite-linked, state- of-the-art vessel monitoring system enabled inspectors to monitor the illegal activities of the Golden Eagle over a period of a month.

Chairperson, let me now announce that we have reached a point where not a single foreign country has access to fish in South African waters. [Applause.] We see this as a key step in safeguarding our natural resources and ensuring that they benefit us here at home instead of being overexploited by foreign countries.

In February this year, together with the Department of Justice, we opened an environmental court in Hermanus. This is a significant step in our efforts to fight abalone poaching. In this regard, South Africa is a world leader as this is the first court of its kind in the world.

Biodiversity plays a critical role in overall sustainable development and poverty eradication. And because we are ranked as the third most biodiverse country in the world, a far greater responsibility of custodianship rests on our shoulders. Two key pieces of legislation are currently before Parliament - the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill and the Protected Areas Bill. We are establishing ourselves as world leaders by including in the legislation strong provisions that link biodiversity, conservation and indigenous knowledge systems.

As part of protecting biodiversity, South Africa continues to be the driving force behind bold and far-sighted regional cross-border initiatives referred to as transfrontier parks, for nature knows no boundaries. Following the successful establishment of the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park that stretches across South Africa, Mozambique and Zimbabwe, we are now in the final stages of establishing another park that will cover about 6 222 km2 of South African and Namibian land. The Presidents of South Africa and Namibia will sign a treaty establishing the Ai-Ais/Richtersveld Transfrontier Park in the course of this year.

In recognition of our successful park management system and transfrontier parks initiatives, the World Parks Congress, which takes place only once every 10 years, will be taking place this year in Durban, South Africa, from 8 to 17 September. [Applause.]

Partnership was also a strong theme during the summit. During his visit to the Cradle of Humankind with the UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, President Mbeki said:

… we have to work together, collaborate and form partnerships that will ensure the implementation of the plans that will propel our countries and peoples towards prosperity whilst preserving our planet.

Now, one of our most prominent and profound partnerships is that between Government and the private sector around tourism marketing and growth. The partnership between South African Tourism and the Business Trust is one admired around the world. The idea of partnership is also captured in the composition of the SA Tourism Board and in the buy-in from all players in the tourism marketing strategy, with stakeholders working together within the strategy framework and speaking with one voice.

In all areas of our work local partnerships with communities on the ground are essential to the way we do our work. For example, there are partnerships such as the Iteke Waste Management Project, a community-based sustainable waste management project in Midrand.

I believe the tide has turned. We are truly a world-class nation. We are transforming our country in every sector and transferring a sense of ownership and responsibility to ordinary South Africans. Sustainable development is a challenge South Africans are responding to.

As we close the decade of freedom, we are able to look back with confidence and state that, yes, there have been remarkable advances. The success stories we are today recording in the tourism, environment, marine, coastal, biodiversity and conservation sectors are but a few more examples of how South Africans have resolved to succeed and have embraced a `can-do’ attitude.

I am certain that this House will join me in expressing gratitude to a great team: South African Tourism’s Rick Menell and Cheryl Carrolus; South African National Parks’ Murphy Morobe and Mavuso Msimang; South African Weather Services’ Sizeka Rensburg and Jerry Lengoase; the National Botanical Institute’s Salim Fakir and Brian Huntley; Andrew Zaloumis of the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park and the Grading Council’s Salifou Siddo.

I would like to extend a special word of appreciation to Ms Gwen Mahlangu- Nkabinde, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and hon members serving on the committee. They have gone out of their way to champion the issues we feel so passionately about.

Let me also take this opportunity to thank, in her absence, my Deputy Minister Rejoice Mabudafhasi, who is unable to be here due to her health. To my Director-General, Dr Crispian Olver, and his staff in the department

• their long hours of dedication and determination to succeed have not gone unnoticed. And thanks to the staff of the Ministry for their willingness to go beyond the call of duty and for putting up with me.

My colleagues from both rich and poor countries say to me that this team constitutes one of the most competent and creative in the world. I am certain that this House will join me in saying to them that not only are they the world’s best, but they have also touched the lives of South Africans. We are proud of them. [Applause.]

Ms G L MAHLANGU-NKABINDE: Chairperson, I have been asking myself why I went to such pains preparing a speech when there is such a lot to celebrate. Minister, you have done us proud, and it is very impressive to be working with a person like you. I think there is a lot South Africans can pat themselves on the back for, and about which they can say: ``We have done well. We have done what we were supposed to do.’’ Thank you very much.

Distinguished guests, hon members, distinguished family that has made it possible for …

… ubaba ukuthi afike kuMount Everest. Sibonga umama ngoba omama bayakhohlakala kaningi. [Ihlombe.] Sibonga umama-ke ukuthi ubethandaza sonke isikhathi ukuthi ubaba abuye kahle, noNkulunkulu wamsiza nangu ubaba ukhona. Siyakubonga-ke mama. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[… your father to reach Mount Everest. We are grateful to your mother, because mothers are often forgotten. [Laughter.]. We are grateful that your mother was praying all the time that your father must come back safe and that God helped him. Here he is. Thank you, mother.]

May I begin by thanking the members of the portfolio committee for the wonderful work they have done and continue to do. I want to single out the hon member Ms Ramotsamai, who will not be participating in this debate, in order to pass on the sincere condolences of the portfolio committee and to thank her for representing us so well at the recent indaba in Durban. We pray that God gives her the necessary strength during her bereavement and always.

It is almost 10 years now since the people of South Africa gathered in long queues to demonstrate their right to vote in their country for the first time. That vote did away with words like: ``For whites only. Vir blankes alleenlik.’’ At last, South Africa belongs to all who live in it.

This debate comes at a time when the economic future of Africa is being debated by the G8 countries. This meeting, which concluded the day before yesterday, involved the G8 countries and countries such as Morocco, Malaysia and Switzerland, as well as African leaders. We welcome their commitment, and salute our leaders, in particular our President, for putting Africa first.

Yes, we celebrated with vim and vigour freedom from oppression and colonialism on Africa Day, but the truth is that our countries have a new enemy, and it is poverty. In the same way that we destroyed apartheid in our country, we must jointly, black and white, destroy poverty and hunger. It must be a shame to know that another South African is going to bed hungry, irrespective of colour, gender or belief.

We are two days away from the Growth and Development Summit. In terms of the summit, we are committed to succeeding in building an enduring partnership among all stakeholders, with a shared vision of South Africa’s Growth and Development Strategy. We are also committed to addressing urgent challenges by choosing interventions that will rapidly accelerate investment and job creation, improve efficiency, productivity and greater social equity and ensure fairer distribution of economic opportunities and rewards.

In the past nine years we have made progress in rebuilding our economy and in creating conditions for faster growth and development. But while the number of jobs in the economy has grown by more than a million or by millions, it is also true that the population has grown tremendously, requiring the Government to create more and more jobs.

The Proudly South African campaign is a campaign that I support very much. I like it, because I think I am truly South African and I am very passionate about that. I like eating South African food and listening to South African music. I do, however, buy a lot of Cuban music because I like it. I, however, feel strongly about jobs, and I get jealous when I hear that a job that could have been given to a South African has been given to someone else.

Not too long ago I was on an aeroplane when a member of Parliament came over to me and said: Do you know where the chocolate you are eating comes from? It comes from Belgium.'' I said that that could not be true, but then I read the wrapper which said:Beautifully crafted in South Africa from Belgium.’’ We may not have cocoa in South Africa, but there is plenty of cocoa in Africa. If we are to be true about partnerships, we should make sure about this. [Applause.] Some people say that South Africans must come first in whatever opportunities we get. We can always get other people if we do not have the expertise.

The underdevelopment and marginalisation of black people from the mainstream of economic life in the country of their birth is what our budgets from 1994 should have dealt with, but, given the mess inherited by this Government, we have done extremely well under trying conditions.

This debate, coming before the celebration of a decade of freedom on 27 April next year, serves as a mirror in terms of which all of us, all hon members in this House, will assess and evaluate our role as public representatives regarding whether we have or have not made an impact on the lives of ordinary South Africans: the illiterate, the homeless, the hungry, those dying from preventable diseases and those who are victims of unhealthy working conditions.

Not everything has been achieved. There is still a lot to be done, but we stand far above many countries. South Africans with a common destiny and goal, and with a resolve to which we are all committed, cannot fail, and we have not failed our people.

I study very closely our national carrier, SA Airways. That is why when it comes to those those small little things, I always make sure I send an e- mail to Mr Viljoen regarding, for example, finding chocolate here: The Belgians are rich, and would not notice if we removed their chocolate, and bought chocolate from South Africa.

I celebrated with SA Airways when it took delivery of its first new airbus in January this year. SAA has received the first three A340-600 aircraft. These aircraft have seats which can recline completely flat, something which most of us like. We may not be able to afford these seats, but these aircraft have them. From January this year SAA reintroduces flights to New York via Dakar. Now we can fly to West Africa, which was a nightmare before because one had to go all over Africa to reach Dakar. Now it takes, I think, seven and a half hours to reach that destination.

We have cemented our relationship with Air Tanzania. In April this year, after more than 40 years, South Africa was reinstated in the International Civil Aviation Organisation. These are examples of just one airline and the things that it does. I thought members would remember that the Minister made mention of the fact that before 1994 we could receive only 12 airlines from other countries into South Africa. Today, we receive 124 airlines or 134 airlines. I am not quite sure, but it is an amount very close to 130 per day. Now, if we did not make it possible, I do not know who did.

I agree with environmental NGOs in terms of the statement they have released that is on the Internet and elsewhere. They say that for most South Africans World Environment Day today, which the whole world is celebrating, may not be a celebration of a clean environment for many; that it may not be different from any other day of the year as ``some of us will wake up choking on toxic fumes being emitted from nearby industries, some children will have to reach for their asthma pumps, some factory workers will be exposed to dangerously high levels of poisonous chemicals, some industrial plant somewhere in the country will accidentally leak an unlawful amount of some chemical into the environment’’. The plain truth is that for some of us the air we breathe could be killing us.

I agree fully. I never go anywhere without my asthma pump. But whether the condition I have was caused by the ruling party is another thing, because that is not true. I agree fully with what they said, but we need to mention that it is this Government that introduced the first National Environmental Management Act, which is the envy of countries worldwide in terms of addressing the very issues raised today. [Applause.]

In my reply to their e-mail, I even said: Did you tell the world - because you are circulating this release ... [Interjections.] I do not like it when I am addressing my Minister and somebody disturbs me. [Interjections.] ``Did you tell the world that South Africa has a Constitution, that in that Constitution is a Bill of Rights and that the right to a clean environment is one of those rights?’’ I say this because some of these things must be told so that whoever reads these e-mails, which go everywhere, gets a balanced view.

I went on to say that the air we breathe, which knows no boundaries as the Minister mentioned just now, is not the responsibility of today’s Government. The mess we have today is because of what happened in the past in this country. [Interjections.] English is my fourth language. I do not have to worry if I make a mistake. One of the problems we have in this country is that the last time we had legislation addressing air quality and pollution was in 1965. I want the environmental NGOs to actually point that out.

I looked at the budget for the environment in 1989, when people were not sure whether we were going to take over this country or not. It is a shame to see money not being allocated to biodiversity and heritage, not being allocated to many things that would address our problems and not even being allocated to pollution. I have a copy of this information. If members are interested, I can give them a copy. It was a shame how the environment was treated. [Interjections.] That is why today we have managed to stop the environment from being the stepchild, and have made it one of the top areas in this country. [Applause.]

We congratulate you, Minister, on the plastic regulations. As you know, I usually make sure that I check my information before I speak. I phoned Pick ‘n Pay in Parow, which is where I buy my groceries. I spoke to Mr Charl Fourie, the store manager. He said it was true, that it was working, that customers were bringing their own bags, and that food prices at Pick ‘n Pay had gone down, because the food prices used to include the plastic bags. That is what he said. I did not ask him to tell me what I would have liked to hear.

However, there is also concern about the green bags because they are not available. Even at Pick ‘n Pay in Centurion, Pretoria, where I shop, you do not get green bags. He also said that there was a high demand for the green bags, and that the producers could not supply enough. He advised that Government make sure it got producers that could deliver, because a lot of people want the green bags. I say well done regarding the branches I phoned

• Pick ‘n Pay Parow and Pick ‘n Pay Centurion. [Applause.]

We have good writers in this Parliament. I am just about to conclude. I am in a celebratory mood. My Minister, the director-general and all officials have done what South Africans said they must go out and do. [Applause.] Also, members of the portfolio committee from all the different political parties have done exactly that to such an extent that people are surprised that we really are from different parties when we are together on overseas tours, or on any other tours.

In conclusion, I usually get words of wisdom from Mawalal Ramgobin, but these words really touched me. He said that sustainable development will remain deficient unless there is physical development. He went on to say it has to be in the spirit of ubuntu and the belief system that each part of nature is part of the whole, and that the whole is part of the part. We, as humans, are part of the whole, and we cannot afford the luxury of arrogating to ourselves the right to engage in the degradation of our country, our continent and our world. Thank you very much, Comrade Mawalal.

I want to conclude by thanking everyone, especially members of the portfolio committee. Hon members would have heard from my speech that there have been many things I did not touch on specifically. They will be unpacking the whole budget in their speeches. Thank you very much, Minister, for another wonderful year. [Applause.]

Mr E K MOORCROFT: Chairperson, it is always a pleasure to follow on the hon Gwen, who presides, or should I say rules, over our portfolio committee with such distinction.

The stated vision of this department is that of a ``prosperous and equitable society, living in harmony with its environment’’. This is a vision with which we in the DA can easily associate, and so we must test the activities of this hon Minister and his department in terms of what has been achieved in making this vision a reality.

It would be less than honest of me if I were to claim that this hon Minister and his department have not handled their responsibilities well. Unlike many of his colleagues, who fall woefully short of the standards of performance we expect of them, this hon Minister continues to perform consistently well. [Applause.] However, having said that, I am mindful of the fact that praise from the opposition is generally regarded as a poisoned chalice, so let me simply compliment the hon Minister and tell him that we will be supporting his Vote and then move on and turn my attention to more mundane matters, in particular to the budget.

With regard to the departmental budget allocation, it might be construed as disappointing that there has only been a 1% overall increase. However, if one takes into account the fact that a massive R300 million portion of the budget was swallowed up by the one-off allocation to the World Summit on Sustainable Development, then the picture does not look quite so bad.

Within the departmental budget itself there have been gratifying increases for certain programmes. For example, programme 4 on Tourism goes up from R150 million last year to R220 million this year. This important programme will be dealt with more fully later on in the debate by my colleague the hon Koornhof.

A further provision has been made for R501 million to be spent over the next three years in acquiring patrol and other vessels for Marine and Coastal Management under programme 3. What happened to the Patagonian toothfish and what is still happening to our abalone resources is fresh in our minds and so this is welcome expenditure. A further R80 million has been budgeted over three years for the rehabilitation of our harbours. Some of our smaller boats, essential for the coastal fishing industry, have deteriorated to the extent that they are unsafe to use, and expenditure is essential. This, too, will be money well spent.

With regard to programme 6, which deals with the preservation of biodiversity, it is pleasing to note that R125 million, spread over three years, has been earmarked for the purpose of acquiring more land for conservation purposes. However, given the need for more land, we regard this amount as woefully inadequate and we call on the hon Minister to redouble his efforts, perhaps with the aid of the private sector, to acquire additional funding. Last year 40 000 ha was acquired. While this is a significant amount of land, it still falls far short of what is needed.

With regard to the preservation of biodiversity, I wish to make an urgent appeal to the Minister to intervene personally in the battle which is being fought to save one of the world’s loveliest stretches of unspoilt seascapes from destruction by mining for heavy minerals. I refer to the Pondoland coast. The reason why this threat exists is because the Department of Minerals and Energy, in its wisdom, has granted a permit to an Australian based company to go prospecting among the dunes of this shoreline.

What makes this matter even more vexatious is the fact that the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has already invested substantial amounts of capital in ecotourism projects in this area. These projects are up and running and are already generating income and employment on a sustainable basis. Furthermore, an amount of R10 million has been earmarked in this budget for the development of the Pondoland National Park. This park is being proposed because of the unique and pristine nature of this area.

To allow the mining of these dunes and the consequent inevitable destruction of this pristine shoreline for short-term economic gain would be an act of environmental vandalism for which future generations would never forgive us. The fact that the permit has been granted to a foreign company adds insult to injury. Why should our magnificent environmental heritage be sacrificed to put money in foreign bank accounts? I believe that every conservation-minded South African will oppose this scheme and tell the Australians to go and bulldoze beaches in their own country. [Time expired.]

Mr J D ARENDSE: Mr Chairperson, just before I start my speech, I have to comment on what happened while the chairperson of the committee was at the podium. While she was speaking, a member of the DA commented on her use of the English language. I checked with her, but she was not able to tell me which member it was. Firstly, I do not think that member is a member of the portfolio committee. Secondly, I think there are many members in the DA who cannot even speak a second language properly. Thirdly, that member who made the comment, whoever he or she is, must have been ashamed when she answered: ``I am speaking in my fourth language.’’ Having said that, I continue with this debate.

I rise today in support of the Vote on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on behalf of the people of South Africa. I wish to dedicate my contribution to the countless pioneers who sacrificed their lives on the altar of the struggle for a better life for all. I dedicate my speech to the millions who stood patiently in endless queues in sun-baked streets and wind-swept rural towns in 1994 and 1999 to vote for the ANC. I dedicate my speech to the millions who continue to work tirelessly throughout our country, showcasing how diverse people unite, and to those compatriots who show the world a South Africa alive with possibilities.

The facts and figures speak for themselves, as history records them. The world family of nations and their global institutions, such as the World Tourism Organisation, or WTO, rejected the apartheid pariah South Africa of Verwoerd, Vorster and Botha. Our membership of the WTO, achieved on 16 April 1994, must be seen as a symbol of world admiration for the persevering spirit of a people yearning for democracy. During the period 1990 to 1994, the tourism industry was characterised by a slow pace of change, an unrepresentative mainstream tourism industry in which mainly small-scale black operators could participate, and general Afropessimism.

It is therefore not surprising that in 1992 South Africa’s share of the international tourism market was less than 1%. But democracy, an insightful ANC Government and our nation of go-getters turned our country away from the brink of recession into a growing, winning one. So it is appropriate for us to focus on the fruits of the struggle.

In 1994 the total number of overseas visitor arrivals was more than 700 000, while in 2001 a Satour survey recorded 34 million trips undertaken by South Africans alone. In 2002 we attracted more than 6,5 million foreign tourists, excluding the almost 2 million from Africa. In 1994 domestic tourism was the fourth largest contributor of foreign exchange, our world ranking moved from 55th to 13th and in Africa we moved from fifth to second.

Currently, tourism is the fourth largest industry in the country, contributing an estimated R39 billion to the economy. Its crucial importance is further reflected in the fact that the industry employs one in every 16 workers. It is our largest forex earner and contributes 8,2% of the GDP. The more than 6 million tourists last year exceeded the projected growth numbers by more than 20%.

These figures are set to remain buoyant and liable to continue their upward trend. There are a number of important indicators that support this view. Because of our political and economic management, and our widely respected foreign policy, South Africa is seen as a safe destination, especially for tourists from the United States and Europe. The benefits we currently derive from tourism did not simply fall from the sky because we are now a constitutional democracy. Instead it is the fruit of a major rethink, vast investment in marketing and promotion and creativity by the Ministry and department, our hospitable communities and the industry.

Colleagues, the best news is that we are far from saturating the vast potential our country has to offer to overseas visitors. For instance, in the Western Cape alone golf tourism adds more than R230 million to the fiscus. The more than 18 000 golfing tourists who visited this province last year represent a 20% growth figure from 2001. Certainly, this bodes well for us as we work together to enlarge our slice of the global cake.

We are also blessed with a wealth of cultural and linguistic diversity, which is a major catalyst for cultural or heritage tourism. We will do well to increase the 29 mainly KwaZulu-Natal based cultural villages to entice and dazzle visitors. This is evidenced in the relative success we are seeing in the township tourism sector, encouraging black entrepreneurs.

The hon Minister would, however, know that there are a number of serious constraints being experienced by aspiring black entrepreneurs. In short, these include: a lack of finance, skills and qualifications; a lack of familiarity with the sector; black areas are often underdeveloped as tourism sites; development is often fragmented and unco-ordinated; a lack of awareness of tourism potential by communities; and the perception of a high incidence of crime.

We believe that South Africans, in partnership with one another, are both ready and willing to tackle these challenges and turn them around in our favour. Through the efforts of the ANC, our democratic Government, the industry and our communities across the country, we are today able to claim that the tide has turned. Every day we make greater progress to realise the objective of a better life for all. Every day we continue to build a stronger and stronger people’s contract to push back the frontiers of poverty and hunger further and further. Every day we are saying to the world that we are a proudly South African nation of winners. [Applause.]

Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Hon Chairperson, the IFP salutes Sibusiso Vilane. Well done.

Hon Minister and members of the House, the IFP notes your progress. We applaud your efforts in the launch of the environmental court, the blue flag for beaches and WSSD. Well done. Yet, coupled with the successes, there must be criticism. I want to touch on the areas of pollution in the south of Durban and the 4x4 ban.

Firstly, on the issue of communities living close to these industrial giants, time and time again, there is community outcry about the sulphur dioxide emissions from Sapref refineries. Hon Minister, it was very worrying that calculations of these emissions are easily manipulated and distorted. In this attempt to realise a clean environment, communities constantly want some accountability from these industries, and I am hoping that you could help us in this regard. Too often, the environment is dismissed as a concern for those who are not concerned with bread-and-butter issues, but the reality is that most of the people in South Africa have urgent environmental concerns, especially those who live a poor quality of life and those who live in areas close to industries and factories.

Openness and accountability to stakeholders, not just shareholders, would be improved by environmental reporting and a concerted effort to reduce emissions and resource use. Still, the cumulative effects on these communities are being felt, like bronchial attacks and respiratory attacks. Communities do not necessarily believe that the Government is on their side and, Minister, we would like to see you pursuing this matter. We’d like to open up the channels of communication.

The second area I want to talk about is the 4x4 issue. Hon Minister, we know that very soon, in KwaZulu-Natal, there is going to be the sardine run, and we need to know what is going to happen about the regulations here.

Too often, the concept of sustainable development remains an add-on on policies, rather than a basis upon which we build. Too often, new policies are constructed and, at the end, we seem to tag on the sustainable development initiative. Protecting and improving the environment is not just the job of the Minister of the Environment. It is a job for everyone.

Hon Minister, here again, we applaud your efforts in the environmental court and we endorse the polluter-pays principle, but we need more rigour here, especially with the industrial giants.

In the few minutes that are left, I just want to say that we also endorse your initiatives on these contaminated sites and landfill sites. We feel that chronic dumping is taking place here.

In conclusion, I want to say that the environment can no longer be thought of as a luxury or something that is secondary, and the IFP would support any green and sustainable budget. We support this budget.

Mrs R A NDZANGA: Chairperson, hon Minister Moola, allow me first to thank the hon Valli Moola …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Moosa. [Laughter.]

Mrs R A NDZANGA: … Valli Moosa and hon Rejoice Mabudhafasi, in absentia, for the co-operative and inclusive manner in which they worked with us as legislatures in overseeing the affairs of the department whose Vote debate I am participating in now.

Also allow me to thank the staff of the department, led by Dr Olver who, in the previous financial year, made us really proud to be South Africans, as they diligently dealt with various tasks of both national and international significance. Sithi nangomso. (We say thank you.) [Applause.]

The ministerial input, on leading this debate, has painted a picture that, I am sure, has made us all feel proud to be South Africans and, moreover, has strengthened our resolve to work even harder in pushing back poverty.

My focus for the debate will be on the World Summit on Sustainable Development, held recently in South Africa, in September 2002, and the aspect of environmental planning, as issues that add to the matrix of what the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism is charged with and has achieved. So much that is positive has happened over the past nine years, and I intend sharing a few of those achievements and challenges.

Hon Minister Moosa remarked in Algeria during one of the meetings prior to the World Summit on Sustainable Development, as follows:

… the single most important threat to sustainable development globally is poverty and the widening gap between the rich and the desperately poor. This is not only a threat to poor nations, but also to wealthy nations, as the instability, conflict, diseases and environmental degradation associated with poverty threaten the overall socioeconomic status of our planet.

South Africa would, therefore, like to submit for consideration, the eradication of poverty as the key to sustainable development, as being the theme of the summit.

Young though we are as a democratic nation, we have boldly asserted what we see and know to be central in dealing with duel challenges affecting the countries of the world. We have constantly pushed for the issue of poverty eradication to be made central, with success at the summit, as a necessary mark of graduating over petty issues that the less-wise nations have wanted to make central.

The WSSD took part after we had successfully hosted a world conference on racism for environmentalist and social development activists the world over. The WSSD took place at the right time and was hosted by the right nation that bears the hallmarks of both demons that the international summits were intended to understand and rally around.

When we come to the question of energy, our Government is prepared to make our lives better. Allow me one minute to quote from the President’s speech at the Millennium Summit on Energy. The President said, and I quote:

The poor of the world stand at the gates of the comfortable mansions occupied by each and every king and queen, prime minister and minister privileged to attend this unique meeting. The question these billions ask is: What are you doing, you in whom we have placed our trust? What are you doing to end the deliberate and savage violence against us, that every day sentences many of us to a degrading and unnecessary death?

Chairperson, thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr S J GOUS: Thank you, Mr Deputy Chair. Hon Minister, this is my first speech as a member of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism and therefore I suppose it is a sort of a maiden speech, that is if you can imagine me as being a maiden. I just wanted to tell the hon Arendse that it has been confirmed that the member that made those remarks is fluent in at least two languages; that is English and nonsense.

Last year I was asked to deliver a paper on air pollution at the World Summit on Sustainable Development. I found the subject and research so stimulating and interesting that I decided to share that speech with the House today. And for those that have heard it, I am sorry you have to listen again. In fact, I am such a committed environmentalist that I take the Minister so seriously that I even recycle my speeches.

Now with the limited time available to me, it is impossible to dwell on all the causes and effects of global warming, acid rain, the depletion of the ozone layer and the so-called greenhouse effect. The fact is that these are now well-researched, scientific topics which have all become part of the layman’s language and, in fact, have become household terms. This in itself is a good sign, because the dissemination of information and education is always the mainstay of any environmental programme.

South Africa, like any other developing country, is sensitive to climate changes and it was calculated that, in 1990, we contributed about 1,2% to global warming. It is also a fact that air pollution cannot be divorced from other environmental issues like water pollution, development and last but not least poverty issues. An integrated approach in terms of development and the environment as a whole is therefore a necessity. In this regard, the South African Government has taken the correct approach as indicated in their White Paper published in 1998. Gauteng rates as one of the world’s most polluted areas, putting it in the same league as Bangkok, Mexico City, Los Angeles and Sao Paulo. The pollution in this area is compounded by the fact that it is about 5 500 feet above sea level and consequently the air is very thin and dry. Man- made pollution in this area is created by mining activity, industry, vehicle emissions, combined with coal and wood burning, mainly by informal settlements. In health terms, it is also known as an ear, nose and throat specialist’s paradise, because of all the upper and lower respiratory complications encountered in this area.

When one considers the whole of South Africa, the levels of sulphur dioxide, nitric oxide and ozone are on average within the accepted limits of guidelines for human health and the prevention of direct ecosystem damage. The measured concentrations at ground level are not currently showing an upward trend. But there are occasions, especially in major urban areas, where these concentrations are exceeded and when people who are already experiencing problems will experience further respiratory problems.

We seem to accept that air pollution is mainly limited to urban aeas. It is, however, now clear that indoor air, even in rural areas, constitutes a major health hazard in poorly ventilated dwellings without chimneys, where coal, wood, paraffin or dung are used as fuel. The electrification of houses will improve this situation as well, as will general improvement in housing design and construction brought about by the national housing policy. Greater efforts to improve the ambient air quality, for instance, by paving roads in informal settlements or promoting low-smoke fuels and educating the public on the dangers of open fires inside houses are also necessary.

Susceptible terrestrial and freshwater ecosystems are likely to show adverse effects of acid deposition in a few decades if the current emission rates of sulphur dioxide and nitric oxide are continued or increased. The direct causes of climatic and atmospheric changes are human activity, such as the burning of fossil fuels and the clearing of natural vegetation. This combination leads to the so-called greenhouse effect.

Climatic and atmospheric changes impact on South Africa in the following ways: Firstly, changes in biogeographic distributions and the loss of biodiversity; more human deaths, especially among the elderly and very young, due to health-related problems, for example with heat waves and flooding and the greater risk of epidemic infectious illnesses, such as malaria, due to an expansion of the suitable habitat for mosquitoes which transmit malaria. This is one of the more serious problems that South Africa has experienced in the last decade.

The direct effect of polluted air on health, especially on the respiratory system, cannot be underestimated. It is estimated that around 2 000 children die annually in South Africa as a result of respiratory infections caused by air pollution, making it the sixth largest killer of children under the age of four.

Air quality in South Africa is currently regulated by the Atmospheric Pollution Prevention Act of 1965. This legislation is widely recognised as outdated with regard to approaches to air quality management and measurement, and inadequate for the present situation. A process was initiated during 1999 which will lead to new air quality legislation, and according to what the Minister said earlier today, it will be ready very soon.

The Integrated Pollution Management Initiative at national level has delivered a discussion document, aimed at water minimisation and preventing the diversion of pollution from one medium, eg water to another, eg air, which can occur if a fragmented approach is followed.

The Energy White Paper also has many sections which relate directly or indirectly to emissions. Scientists are telling us about global warming. They also tell us that we might be on the verge of a new Ice Age. So, we can sit back and hope that these two effects cancel each other out. I think that it is a bit like gambling and certainly not a chance worth taking.

In conclusion, I would like to say that South Africa is certainly not spared or immune to the ecological disaster facing other parts of the world. Government has a major responsibility in this regard, for it is clear that the community and industry will not change their behaviour voluntarily.

To the question then about when this must happen, the answer is now. The only outstanding question is to what degree Government must interfere and regulate to avert a certain ecological disaster. It might be useful to remember that in terms of the environment, we are borrowing the present from the future of our children. [Applause.]

Mrs J CHALMERS: Chairperson, hon Minister, colleagues, once again I feel very privileged to be able to participate in this very important debate.

With every year that passes, the challenges that face this Ministry, our country and continent and the Earth we inhabit become increasingly important and critical. And the challenges are huge, the most fundamental being how we accommodate the growing and truly pressing needs of humankind with the capacity of nature to restore itself. Today, 53% of the world’s 6 billion people still live on and off the land. More than 99% of the world’s food supply comes from the land. Ecosystems are where people and nature meet and here the challenge is how to reconcile community needs with principles of ecology, how to combine science with indigenous knowledge and how to link local realities with global responsibilities.

South Africa occupies only 2% of the global land area, yet it contains almost 10% of the world’s plants and 7% of its reptiles, birds and mammals. This extraordinary wealth is recognised by the outside world with people coming in increasing numbers with a diversity of interests to experience this richness. Foreign birders alone bring over R25 million annually into our economy. The Cape wildflower industry is estimated at over R150 million a year, of which 80% is in foreign exchange. The local trade in medicinal plants is an incredible figure, estimated at R1,6 billion a year.

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has recognised the crucial need to protect and conserve this precious heritage. Expenditure on programme 6, that of Biodiversity and Conservation, has grown at an average of 20% per year, taking expenditure from R107,8 million in 1999-2000 to an expected R125,8 million in 2005-06.

It is hoped that two new botanical gardens will be established. The Eastern Cape has long been awaiting such a garden in order to show South Africa and the world that it too has an extraordinary - are you listening, hon Moorcroft - and uniquely beautiful range of biodiversity within its borders.

Our portfolio committee is waiting with some impatience for the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill and Protected Areas Bill to come before us in order to ensure greater protection for our biodiversity and ecosystems. Our Government and our Minister are certainly aware of our responsibilities with regard to sustainable development and the urgent need to conserve our biodiversity and the framework of legislation to enable this to happen is becoming more all-embracing with regulations being put in place to flesh this out.

But it is no easy task. We come from a past where government policy with regard to conservation of plants and animals did not take into account the vital need for communities throughout the land to be a living part of the decision-making processes needed to make conservation possible in a sustainable way. We virtually had to start from scratch in 1994 with a new vision, with new legislation to back it up, with a rethink as to how South Africa can fulfil its extraordinary potential to be not only one of the most physically beautiful countries in the world, but also one in which all our citizens have a stake in ensuring that that beauty and the value it represents remain intact for future generations. There is only one way that this vision can be enabled to happen and that is to form partnerships so that the land is criss-crossed with lines of communication, forming a network strong enough to support the values so necessary for the survival of our biodiversity. We need partnerships between the private and public sectors, with NGOs, between different levels of government, between different departments; be it Environmental Affairs and Tourism with Water Affairs and Forestry, with Health, with Agriculture and Land Affairs, with Trade and Industry, with perhaps most important of all, the Department of Education. There is no doubt that unless we engage and inform and bring on board the young people of our land at an early age, the vision we have of a South Africa continuing to sustain and conserve the riches of this country, will never be truly fulfilled.

It may seem a digression, but it was only when I started to think about this debate and consider the role and importance of environmental education in the preservation of our biodiversity that I became aware of how the Department of Education in its programmes and policies is planning strategically, sustainably, and with great commitment in order to ensure generations of our children come out of school better equipped to meet the environmental challenges facing us all in South Africa.

I am truly excited at the moment by an initiative taking place in my constituency, the Blue Crane Municipality, which consists of three small towns up in the mid-Karoo. There, the town council has engaged on the services of an environmental officer who spends her time moving from primary school to primary school in town and on the farms with a collection of insects, plants, stuffed birds and animals and reptiles giving children, who are absolutely and totally fascinated, an understanding of what the creatures they see every day are really about and how they interact with one another and how that interaction is vital and fundamental to the survival of all biodiversity.

They look at water projects, alien vegetation, trees and tree planting, ant hills, recycling initiatives, you name it. They have now been given a small dedicated building at the Somerset East museum to house their unit. They are part of waste collecting campaigns, with today, World Environment Day, being the culmination of their can collecting campaign where each school will lay out a long snake, called an anacanda, of all the cans it has collected. Last time they had such a campaign, the schools collected 72 700 cans; it was a huge and memorable success. The cans were then taken for recycling and a small amount of cash distributed amongst the schools for special projects.

A major problem exists, of course, in the smaller centres, when it comes to the transport of waste material for recycling. It becomes prohibitively expensive and hardly worth the effort involved, a problem to which the Department of Transport might apply its mind creatively, and hopefully come up with some really creative ideas.

Winston Churchill once said: ``I am always willing to learn, but I am not always happy to be taught.’’ The children at these schools are learning vital lessons through doing and participating and having experiences that will stand them and others in good stead in the future.

These small initiatives are happening in many places in South Africa, translating knowledge into the sort of participation and action that will enable local communities to understand why biodiversity is so important in all our lives. But, of course, more such projects are needed. More schools need visits from environmental education officers. More money is required if this vision is to really be impactful.

Our Government is aware of this pressing need, and the fact that our children have to realise that nature is not infinitely tolerant, that there is a limit to the number of trees we can cut down, the wetlands we can destroy, the rubbish we can dump, the fish we can take from the sea and the habitats we can use unsustainably and the species we can lose that play a vital role in the survival of all of us on this, the Blue Planet. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Deputy Chairperson and hon members, the efforts of the department to serve as the watchdog of environmental issues have to be supported, because pollution in the air we inhale, the water we drink and the surroundings we live in affects our lives adversely.

We, in the UCDP, congratulate the department on the efforts they have mounted to wage war against the use of asbestos owing to its lethal effects. We hope the victims will be compensated accordingly.

The department is called upon to be on the alert and to act quickly to incessant reports to the effect that toxic fumes are being emitted by Sasol in the northern Free State. Research conducted by the University of the Witwatersrand on behalf of the United Nations and also by Leeds and Potchefstroom Universities, roped in by Sasol itself, had a common finding: that the plant does in fact emit poisonous chemicals, some of which result in excessive breathing which affects the immune system, while other chemicals may cause excessive vomiting and convulsions. We have no doubt that the department will act on the matter as of yesterday.

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has succeeded in placing South Africa in the lead in the annual indabas at which the world’s premier travel trade shows are showcased. The successful hosting of the World Summit on Sustainable Development and the subsequent chairing of the follow-up meeting by the Minister recently are clear proof that nothing will stop this country in its quest for sustainable development in the areas of clean water and food security.

We applaud the Minister for getting the better of his counterparts at Cites by succeeding in negotiating the sale of stockpiled ivory. The continuing efforts to let wildlife out of territorial confines, such as the launch of the Kgalagadi and Great Limpopo Transfrontier Parks speaks volumes about the gains people will make in game moving from one country to another without hassles, as there would be in a game park. The flip side for human beings is that this will assist the process of the African Union as artificial and political boundaries will be defied.

The UCDP will give whatever support it can to see to the appointment of tour guides among black people. We hope the envisaged target of 50% of black guides will be realised by the end of this fiscal year.

The implementation of the regulations on plastic bags has proved to be a great success. The unsightly bags that used to adorn the landscape will be phased out in no time. Besides, in some areas, this has resulted in some entrepreneurs finding a niche in making shopping bags thereby creating employment for some and work for others, thus bidding poverty and its allies farewell.

Hard work needs increased capacity. It is therefore not surprising that the need for a chief director and a chief operations officer has been identified in the department. The appointments should not be delayed as they will help the department to function better than it is now.

The UCDP supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr M I MOSS: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister and members, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism played a key role in contributing to the huge success our country had in the hosting of the World Summit on Sustainable Development last year.

The Marine and Coastal Management division of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has committed itself to transformation and to ensuring that we make sustainable development a priority when it comes to the harvesting and protection of our marine resources, as the Minister pointed out earlier.

South Africa’s coast and its marine resources provide enormous benefits in meeting the basic needs and improving the welfare of all South Africans. The value of direct benefits provided by the coast was recently estimated at R168 billion and the indirect benefits at R134 billion - not million rand, billion rand. While the socioeconomic benefits highlight the importance of coastal services to our economy, it is equally important that we regard the protection of our coastal and marine ecosystems as an integral element of maintaining biodiversity, in other words, sustainable development.

Since the introduction of democracy in South Africa in 1994, the MCM division has had to weather many crises. At times, it was so bad that fishermen were not allowed to go out with their boats to catch their daily catches. Everybody from the fishermen, factory workers to society was affected. Gone are the days when officials are held hostage. Gone are the days when we, as members of Parliament, have to attend hostile and unruly meetings with fisher folk. Gone are the days when the fishing industry comes to a halt as a result of court cases. [Applause.]

Minister, why are you clapping? [Laughter.] [Applause.] The positive achievements of the MCM division outweigh the negative by far. The continued delivery when it comes to transformation, subsistence permits, black economic empowerment, historically disadvantaged companies, compliance, and medium and long-term fishing rights are all tremendous successes of which the MCM division can be proud.

Mariene- en Kusbestuur, soos die visbedryf nou vandag bekend staan, is in baie opsigte baie meer toeganklik as in die verlede. Dit is alombekend dat minister Valli Moosa graag spog oor die toeganklikheid van sy kantoor vir gestremdes en hoe ek veral die situasie uitbuit. Dit is egter die halwe waarheid.

Verlede week het ons met vyf groepe van Paternoster, Velddrif, Langebaan, Vredenburg en Retreat in die Minister se kantoor ontmoet. Hierdie vrugtevolle vergadering het gegaan oor toerisme en vissersaangeleenthede. Die toekenning wat die Minister vroeër bekend gemaak het oor die netvis is onder andere van die dinge wat daar bespreek is. Verder sal die res van die Weskus se geleentheid nog kom.

Behalwe die feit dat die publiek direk met die Minister oor sake aangaande die visbedryf kan praat, is amptenare van die departement ook beskikbaar. Vergaderings word ook gereeld in gemeenskappe gehou waar waardevolle inligting deurgegee word. By ‘n vergadering verlede maand in St Helenabaai het ‘n plaaslike inwoner, ene Trevor Rheede, gesê dat hy in die laaste tyd oor heelwat negatiewe dinge in die visbedryf in die media gelees het. Op ‘n vraag hoekom die media nie die vergadering van daardie dag bygewoon het nie, het ek aan hom geantwoord dat die media somtyds baie van sensasie hou. Die DA-lid van die Parlement, Antoinette Versveld, is byvoorbeeld baie lief daarvoor om op arm mense se gevoelens en frustrasies te speel. Sy maak valse beloftes en versprei blatante leuens die hele wêreld deur. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Marine and Coastal Management, as the fishing industry is known today, is in many respects much more accessible than it was in the past. It is generally known that Minister Valli Moosa likes to boast about the accessibility of his office to the handicapped and how I, especially, take advantage of this situation. It is, however, only half the truth.

Last week we met with five groups from Paternoster, Velddrif, Langebaan, Vredenburg and Retreat in the Minister’s office. This productive meeting was about tourism and fishing affairs. The allocation the Minister announced earlier with regard to net fishing was, inter alia, one of the things discussed there. The rest of the West Coast will get its opportunity later on.

Apart from the fact that the public can discuss matters concerning the fishing industry directly with the Minister, officials of the department are also available. Meetings are also held regularly in the communities at which valuable information is passed on.

At a meeting in St Helena Bay last week a local inhabitant, a Mr Trevor Rheede, said that he had recently been reading quite a number of negative things in the media in respect of the fishing industry. In reply to a question as to why the media was not attending the meeting that day, I replied that the media sometimes liked sensation a lot. The DA member of Parliament, Antoinette Versfeld, for example, really loves playing on the feelings and frustrations of the poor. She makes false promises and spreads blatant lies all over the country.]

The matter of safety at sea has, for all these years, been a grave …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member. Yes, hon Andrew?

Mr K M ANDREW: Chair, the hon member has just referred to an hon member of the NCOP and said that she spreads blatant lies. I believe that is unparliamentary and should be withdrawn.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Andrew, I think the Speaker’s ruling was that this applies to members of this House. If you recall, a similar point of order was taken in respect of a provincial government not too long ago where a member of the DA made certain assertions in respect of a member, the hon Van Schalkwyk, in the provincial government. The ruling that we then gave was that this applies to the House in which the member belongs. So, if you are unhappy with that, we can look at it, but that would be the procedure we would follow.

Mr K M ANDREW: Chair, if I understand you, therefore, the ruling is - and I am not contesting the ruling, but as long as it is clear - that you can say anything about anybody who is not a member of this House, whether they are a member of this Parliament or whether they are a President of the country. As long as they are not a member of this House, one can say what one likes to. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Andrew, there are two … [Interjections.] Order, please! I think there are two principles here. Principle one that operates is that there is freedom of speech. Principle two that operates is that all hon members here will take the responsibility of ensuring that they act in a manner that shows integrity. Therefore, in respect of my ruling I have given you the precedents for the ruling I have made. I have also left room for you to request the Chair to look further into this matter and, if you request that, I will be quite happy to do so.

Mr K M ANDREW: Chair, I would need to consult my party. I do not have the authority to ask you to look into it. I accept your ruling as you have given it, and if my party feels it should be looked at, we will take it up with you.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you. Hon Moss, you may proceed.

Mr M I MOSS: Chairperson, I would like to say to the hon Andrew that in the portfolio committee - I think it is on record and the chairperson has also said this - all the members of the portfolio committee, whether of the DA or any other party, agree with everything we are doing in the portfolio committee. So what I have said is the truth and nothing but the truth. [Applause.]

Safety at sea has, for all these years, been a matter of a grave concern. Right now, as I speak, we are saddened by the news that yet another drowning has taken place. Two fishermen from Lamberts Bay went missing last Tuesday, and we would like to express our condolences to the families.

The Department of Transport and the SA Maritime Safety Authority are assisting in addressing this matter. Samsa has appointed a full-time person to counsel fishing families who have lost loved ones at sea. The Department of Transport and some fishing associations are also doing other kinds of training that deal with skills training. This is very encouraging, although a lot still needs to be done.

Subsistence fishing in South Africa started three years ago in the Western Cape. When the portfolio committee visited the Eastern Cape villages of Peddie and Hamburg the people wanted to know when subsistence fishing permits would be allocated to them. In the Hamburg community about 133 abalone fishing permits were issued to subsistence fishers of whom the majority were women. A total of 859 subsistence permits were allocated in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. Fishers in Port St Johns and other areas in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal will be allocated more subsistence rights two weeks from today.

While South Africa has proved itself to be a champion when it comes to preserving the resources in the sea, the same cannot be said when it comes to abalone and line fishing. The poaching taking place in respect of the above, abalone in particular, has resulted in the establishment of the marine court in Hermanus, the first of its kind in the world. The Minister also elaborated on this.

The good work of the police, the Scorpions and inspectors has brought poachers, some of whom are connected to gangsters and international syndicates, to court. Abalone worth millions of rands were confiscated in the past year. More co-operation, especially from the fishing coastal communities, is encouraged to save this delicious marine resource from extinction.

As recently as nine years ago …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member! Would you wind up please.

Mr M I MOSS: As recently as nine years ago ordinary fishermen had to brave rough and dangerous seas and had to be satisfied with small wages for their hard labour. Through the increased allocation of fishing rights …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member! Your speaking time has expired.

Mr M I MOSS: … the quotas of many of them have increased.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member! I have allowed you a little discretionary time, but your time has now, finally, totally expired. [Applause.]

Mr M I MOSS: [Inaudible.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member!

Mr M I MOSS: [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, but only for winding up, not for continuing. I allowed you a little discretionary time, but your time has now expired.

Hon members, if I may just address you on the point that was raised by the hon Andrew. I think it behoves us as members of this House to reflect seriously on allegations or statements that we make regarding other members of other legislatures. The responsibility has to be fully and squarely on your own shoulders, but I would like to request you to think seriously about what you say about these members who are not here to respond to points you are raise.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, it is sad to note that 20% of South African households live in poverty created by the past regime. Poverty in these areas is evidenced in improper housing, sanitation, waste disposal, access to healthcare, education and water. We have undertaken in our national Constitution that this is a right of all our people. We strive to improve the quality of life and this department assists us in doing so without depleting our natural resources.

Our recent advancement on the plastic bags has been one such effort, though it has received both positive and negative responses from the public, with many finding it a taxing inconvenience. The problem could, however, be resolved with the recent development by a Johannesburg company and the University of Pretoria of a more easily biodegradable plastic bag.

The fact that South Africa has the third highest level of biodiversity in the world is something to be proud of. The MF shares the concerns displayed in our natural environmental programmes aimed at the management and preservation of this biodiversity.

Tourism is set to be our fastest-growing industry, of which ecotourism is the fastest. We have our biodiversity to thank for that. A new form of tourism, community tourism, appears to be picking up quite a bit and the MF feels that this is a good way of incorporating the people of rural villages and townships into government projects. It could also be a means to alleviate poverty, if they are allowed to sell the crafts that our national ancestry is gifted enough to make.

The MF is pleased with the performance of this department and hopes that the budget allocated for this financial year is adequate. Hon Minister, we are proud of your initiatives taken with regard to environmental affairs. The MF supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is vir my lekker om na soveel jare terug te wees in die toerisme-debat. Ek doen dit ook in ‘n tyd wat Suid-Afrika se industrie groot hoogtes belewe. My gelukwense aan alle rolspelers wat hard hieraan gewerk het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to be participating in the tourism debate after so many years. I am also doing so at a time when South Africa’s industry is reaching great heights. My congratulations to all the role-players who worked hard to achieve this.]

My contribution will be positive and constructive. The tourism industry is relatively young and, according to a research report funded by the Tourism Business Council, has left us with a notably shallow skills pool and an underdeveloped black domestic tourism culture.

The industry is definitely not alone in its call to address inequality and poverty. The question is how and what Government’s role should be. The SA Tourism Industry Empowerment and Transformation Annual Review of 2002 pointed out that empowerment and transformation will follow a different course in tourism and cannot be compared to any other industries or follow their example.

Tourism consists of a wide diversity of products and providers. No single empowerment or transformation model will fit tourism; the said review states clearly that Government recognises this fact. Therefore we expect from Government not to single out specific service providers like tourist guides, and to force quotas on them just for the sake of reporting progress on transformation. If one loses the bigger picture, it can destroy the goodwill and energy we have seen in the industry.

We should always remember that the main challenge as stated in the ``Tourism Charter’’ is firstly, the need to become more globally competitive and secondly, to include formerly disadvantaged groups. These two are fundamentally linked.

The continued growth of domestic tourism targeting black South Africans is vital if we want transformation to be successful. The said review goes on to say that the tourism market among black South Africans is underdeveloped and almost negligible. If we grow this sector, it will assist with real transformation in all other sectors of the industry, without derailing some sectors of the industry. We need a specific strategy around this issue.

One of our major challenges is to reduce the highly seasonal pattern of demand, which has an adverse effect on the earnings of the industry. There are two ways to address this. We can attract visitors by other means of transport, by using the cruise ship industry or charter airlines. South Africa is well positioned to be a lucrative market for cruise ships. We need to investigate this.

When one mentions charter airlines, the debate ``the economic value of SAA vs national interest’’ flares up. SA Tourism estimates a shortage of around 5 000 seats in the peak season from our major regions. We also need an initiative to make the cost of flying to SA more cost-effective. It is amazing to think that a destination like South Africa, suitable for leisure travellers, had no non-scheduled services to speak of.

There is a huge need to alleviate poverty in coastal provinces. Beach tourism is what we need - we need low-cost leisure airlines for dedicated beach destinations. Fly these charters directly to Port Elizabeth, East London and Richards Bay. We need leisure airlines to fly to cities where South African Airways does not offer direct international services. SAA should join the beach party by allowing others to fly!

Finally, the shortage of airline seats for the international high-yield market also remains a concern. With a stronger rand, tourists will consider a different destination if they cannot access affordable seats.

I fully understand that the matter is sensitive, hon Minister, but the scheduled talks about this issue in London later this month are critical. We would ultimately like to see synergy between all role-players. The industry needs clarity as soon as possible if we want to maintain the momentum of growth. [Applause.]

Mr R K SEPTEMBER: Mr Chairman, Mr Minister, members, I am concerned and I will explain why. I believe there is very little difference to be found between the DA of today and the old United Party that we knew only too well. But this one is even the top dressing of elements to the right of the UP, no growth …

I live in Cape Town and I am very aware of the extent to which they represent the privileged virtually to the total disregard of the poor in the townships. Their cruel poster promising what amounts to R100 per vote from the destitute is the most callous piece of canvassing imaginable. The same poster is not put up in rich areas. The point is that the DA still believes in the normality and the morality of maintaining two kinds of environments: one for the rich and another for the poor. [Interjections.]

In Cape Town where these people … I will tell you, wait. In Cape Town where these people ruled until recently, they used to collect refuse twice a week in the upper-class areas, once a week in the middle-class areas and not at all in the poorer areas. When the homeless trudged the streets with their trolleys, collecting what they could, the DA councillors campaigned to ban them from those areas, denying them the possibility of earning a meagre amount to feed their families and, in the process, fuelling fear among the residents in the richer areas. Is dit waar? [Is that true?] [Interjections.]

I attended a police forum at which a DA member politely said: ``They now walk down our streets’’. Listen. One suspects that some DA representatives would prefer to put up barriers and reintroduce vagrancy laws or urban control. At the same time, the DA has the temerity to claim that it can talk on behalf of the poor. [Interjections.] Yes, yes, yes, bly stil, bly stil, hou stil, wag so ‘n bietjie [keep quiet and wait a moment].

We have been on the receiving end of their pushing our people into special areas for long enough. All of this must now come to an end. We have had enough of their administrative mismanagement, they have now been exposed. I am not criticising DA representatives in the portfolio committee, not under any circumstances. My criticism is of the general position of the DA, its stubborn defence of the privileged, which in the South African context is pale-faced, coupled with the total lack of experience of what life is like for black people. The hon Mr Leon with his pitiful attempts to represent himself as a hero in black areas is frankly laughable.

I am afraid that despite all the money they spent, despite all the rhetoric, they do not have the foggiest idea what is really involved in the struggle for survival or for change. I wonder how many of them have ever been involved in a strike, how many of them have ever stood on the picket line … luister nou, luister [listen now, listen].

Perhaps that is why DA councillors in Cape Town, like Scrooge, are trying to debar woodcutters from selling their wood on land next to the road in the South Peninsula. Is dit waar? [Is that true?] The DA fails to understand that the first law of building a decent environment is to ensure that all people, black and white, know that they belong. The basic difference between the DA and ourselves is that we are of the people and they have had to struggle and we have had to struggle with them to this day.

They build pavements in rich areas and fail to recognise the need for roads and drainage in townships. They clean oil-soaked penguins and ignore the distress of the poor. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

But allow me to identify just three areas where the ANC Government is intent on making a difference in the lives of the poor. Twenty years ago, there were six advantaged firms in the fishing industry. Today, despite the fact that there is still a long way to go, very significant strides have been made in the process of transforming the industry and a number of people of colour enjoy a distinctly better standard of living. In this process, the DA has not lifted a finger.

We can all take pride in the opening of our first environmental court. The dedicated officers of this court will now be able to use their expertise to save our marine resources for all our people and prevent poor people from being misused by crime syndicates. We salute the officers who carry out their duties, despite the threats they face. We need to ensure that they get all the support they need.

Regarding tourism, South Africa is clearly making its mark. A vote of thanks must be registered to people like Carrolus, Abramse, Ozinsky and their teams. But we have yet to break through the barriers put in the way of our black guides. The old order, the old guard still controls this turf. Waar? [True?] We can only hope that legal intervention will not be necessary. What we in fact face is the struggle between the old and the new. We want to build one fair, humane environment for all of us. [Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Chairperson, thank you very much. The year 1994 was a remarkable period for South Africa. For the people of South Africa it was the first opportunity ever for freedom for all. But in other ways as well, 1994 was a great turning point. It was a great turning point for the environment, for the animals and for the land itself, because from 1994 there was a very conscious effort to ensure that the pristine beauty and the integrity of our country was going to be maintained.

South Africa owes an enormous debt to two people in particular for the sound management of the environment: the hon Gwen Mahlangu for her able and capable leadership, and for her enormous commitment to the environment … [Applause] … and the hon Valli Moosa for his steadfast resolution to ensure that the South Africa we inherited would be in a condition that is fit enough to give to our children and our grandchildren. [Applause.]

So the appreciation is not only for my generation but for generations to come. What do we therefore need to do to ensure that this very proud record from 1994 can be improved even further? A great number of the speakers who spoke today, for instance, the hon Gous, the hon Roopnarain and even Gwen Mahlangu, pleaded that we should do something to improve the quality of the air that we breathe. To the extent that we can do that, I think that we should take responsibility for that almost immediately.

But hon colleagues, because of the way in which physical laws operate in the world, pollution that is created in Europe or in the United States of America, because of the wind systems, comes right up to the Karoo in South Africa. The winds draw all of that pollution here.

We therefore subscribe to the principle that the polluter pays, but in what respect do the polluters in the North pay the people of Africa for the pollution that they cause? We need to be able to quantify this in order that those who unnecessarily bear the consequences of pollution get relief from those who are polluting. We really need to do this.

In 1994 or 1995 I remember leading an interpellation on the question of tyres. It has been something that has needed attention for a very, very long time because tyres are not only ugly, but there is no way that tyres can be buried in a landfill. Where tyres exist, they allow for the breeding of mosquitoes. The problem of mosquitoes is now a very, very serious problem in Southern Africa because of the diseases that are caused by mosquitoes. Malaria in particular is spreading further south, and this must be of very grave concern to all of us who are members of Parliament.

We therefore need to look at what can be done about tyres. A 5% surcharge on all tyres when they are bought will ensure that there is enough money in the kitty for their proper disposal. All the research that I did indicated that the best way of disposing of old tyres is to send them to the cement factories in order that they can be used up in the cement factory under controlled conditions.

But the disposal of tyres, and you have indicated that, hon Minister, is now a problem of a very serious magnitude that you would need to look at. I am quite sure that the House would be fully supportive.

The question of landfills is another issue that we must engage in very seriously. How many deposit sites are available to a city such as Cape Town or Johannesburg, or even Durban? Therefore the imperative of recycling becomes an ever more important imperative. Just think, 15 million tons of tyres are produced annually and millions of tons of refuse and waste have to be deposited somewhere. This nation has to find the mechanisms whereby we can recycle in order that, on the one hand we create relief for the sites and, on the other hand, we create opportunities for the people who need them.

We also need to be able to look at the way in which we use our rainfall. South Africa only uses 8% of its rainfall for irrigation purposes. The lessons from India on this subject would be very, very instructive.

I am delighted, coming from KwaDukuza, that the Ministry, for the first time ever I think in the history of this country, has started putting some money into this most important cultural and political area. KwaDukuza, as you know, is to be associated with King Shaka, as well as the first President of the ANC, the hon Chief Luthuli. The area also has stunning sites such as in Maphumulo, it has hot springs, there is Kranskop, has got the most wonderful birdlife, but I think that only 5% of the real potential of KwaDukuza is presently being exploited. It would be a magnificent thing indeed if that full potential was exploited so that the thousands of people that are presently jobless in the area could actually find a worthwhile job.

Hon Minister, I am going to be raising this again tomorrow in the Water Affairs debate. While visiting Australia, I was quite impressed that almost all the toilets in Australia have a single and a dual flush mechanism. [Interjections.] I have just returned from Australia and I am trying to share something with you and I hope that you will take this seriously, hon Lee, because it is a problem that is going to face this world, viz a shortage of water. We are wasting water by having a single flush system. I wish to request that this matter be given very serious consideration, namely that we too look at a dual flush system.

To all the people who participate, congratulations. From my own perspective, it is a great privilege for me to be able to support this particular Vote. And if I could in any way enhance it, you have my support to enhance it because I think it is vitally important for the country and the people that we take the environment very, very seriously. [Applause.]

Njing L M MBADI: Somlomo, Mphathiswa wezeNdalo noKhenketho, sibamba ngazibini kuwe ngokutshabalalisa olu khula lweeplastiki olwaba sisibetho nesiphako esenza indalo esiyiphiwe nguThixo yalumeza. Iinkomo zethu ziqunjelwe. Sithi sakuxhela inkomo kuphume iplastiki. Enkosi Mhlekazi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Prof L M MBADi: Chairperson, Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, we commend you for destroying this weed called plastic that has become a disaster and a defect that has had a devastating effect on nature. Our cattle swallow this plastic. When we slaughter them we find plastic in their intestines. Thank you, sir.] In support of this Vote, I implore members of this House to accompany me in exploring the tourist attractions of the northern Eastern Cape, which includes the Wild Coast. The Eastern Cape is divided into two parts, the western Eastern Cape and the northern Eastern Cape. I shall concentrate on the northern Eastern Cape.

This area lies between the Kei River, iNciba, to the south, the Umtamvuna River to the north, the Indian Ocean to the east and the Drakensberg to the north-west. The distance between the Kei and the Umtamvuna is approximately 560km along the N2 route. The mixture of subtropical and temperate climates makes this area an ideal place to visit.

Ndiyanicela ke bantakwethu ukuba nihambe nam. [I am asking you to listen carefully, hon members.]

The famous Amadiba Hiking Trail stretches from Umtamvuna to the Kei River along the coast of the Indian Ocean. The full length of the hiking trail takes 14 days. Along the hiking trail there are resting and hiking huts, with cooking pots, running water and toilet facilities, bungalows and hotels.

Some of the buildings are built in Pondoland and Bomvana traditional style. The owners of these settlements use available human and physical resources to build the settlements. Sometimes villagers work as tourist guides as they are well-acquainted with the area. They are not trained guides. It is heartbreaking to note that the land on which these settlements stand was obtained from chiefs or headmen for a small gift or a bottle of brandy.

This ecotourism helps to alleviate poverty among the local people by offering job opportunities to the villagers. These settlements, which lie in a natural amphitheatre, true wilderness, towering waterfalls and a unique ecosystem in our country, are very welcoming to a tired traveller who has experienced the feel of a rugged terrain with sandstone and pristine forest.

The northern Eastern Cape is characterised by a pristine environment, unspoiled long sandy beaches and rivers, providing ideal opportunities for boating and fishing. Discover and enjoy the rich cultural heritage, exciting wildlife and gaming along the Wild Coast.

The northern Eastern Cape offers great scenic beauty, but the ecological experience needs to be developed at a product and marketing level. The traditional leisure market is being offered a wealth of ecotourism experiences and new areas are being introduced at a rapid rate. What is said about the northern Eastern Cape is not new, but owing to the then political ostracism and segregation, the then leaders said very little about this area. The ANC-led Government is developing historically disadvantaged institutions, HDIs, by taking the services to the people. This area is now surfacing.

The Departments of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, Social Development, Water Affairs and Forestry, Arts and Culture, Trade and Industry, Safety and Security, Transport, Education and Health have formed a partnership to bring tourism to the forefront by empowering the HDIs with developmental and marketing skills. One added advantage of this area is its combination of marine ecology, coastal forests, wildlife, together with its scenic beauty.

Airstrips along the coast have also improved access to the coastal areas when it is not comfortable to use our roads. These airstrips are found at Umkambati, Port St Johns and Qolorha. Any tourist to the coastal areas of the northern Eastern Cape is assured of safety and security, warmth and hospitality from the workers in both nature reserves and game reserves, the surrounding local people, rest huts, hotels, self-catering areas and B&Bs.

The nature and game reserves found in this area are the following: Umkambati Nature Reserve at Flagstaff; Silaka Nature Reserve in Port St Johns; Hluleka Nature Reserve in Umtata; Cwebe Nature Reserve at Mqanduli; and, Dwesa Nature Reserve at Willowvale. The Pondoland National Park established here has received a R10 000 injection. When this is fully operational, it will attract more tourists to this area. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Voorsitter, ek wil graag die agb Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde gelukwens met die gemaklike manier waarmee sy botsende standpunte as voorsitter van die komitee hanteer, en ek wil graag vir Minister Moosa bedank vir die netjiese Afrikaans wat hy vandag gepraat het.

Die agb Reggie September - hy’s altyd so ‘n kalm man - het definitief met die verkeerde voet uit die bed opgestaan. Agb Reggie, ek ken werklik nie die DA waarvan u praat nie.

Voorsitter, die inisiatief om die landsoppervlakte, wat onder bewaringsbeheer val, uit te brei van tans 5% tot 8%, sal die beheer en beskerming van sensitiewe gebiede aansienlik verbeter. Die volgehoue poging van die departement en die publiek om besoedeling en rommelstrooiery te bekamp, word entoesiasties deur die DA ondersteun. Daar is egter nog probleemareas.

Die voortslepende stroping van ons perlemoenbronne bly nog steeds ‘n klad op Suid-Afrika se naam. Dit wil voorkom asof die politieke wil ontbreek om hierdie euwel uit te roei. Die Minister moet die verantwoordelikheid aanvaar vir die vernietiging van ons perlemoenbronne. Ons uiters skaars en unieke bankvisspesies verkeer nog onder groot druk. Dit het nou noodsaaklik geword dat daar verdere visparke of reservate geproklameer moet word. Die wenslikheid van visvangkompetisies en die aktiwiteite van spies-visjagters moet weer onder die vergrootglas geplaas word.

Die skending van inheemse bome deur mutiversamelaars en onoordeelkundige dorpsbeplanning vind nog steeds plaas. Geskiedkundige geboue word nog steeds gesloop, en talle plaaslike owerhede doen niks om hierdie erfenis te beskerm nie. Die gebrek aan werkgeleenthede en die gepaardgaande armoede is sekerlik ons grootste probleem en uitdaging. Die ruim begroting van R300 miljoen vir armoedebekamping word deur die DA verwelkom.

Dit het nou noodsaaklik geword dat botsende belange van bewaring en ontwikkeling dringend moet versoen. Die militante houding van groen partye in Europa moet dien as ‘n waarskuwing dat ons hierdie probleem moet oplos, én dat ‘n wen-wen formule gevind moet word. Aan die een kant kan dit nooit geregverdig word dat ons uiters sensitiewe gebiede deur ontwikkeling geskend word nie. Dis egter net so waar dat ons grootskaalse ekonomiese ontwikkeling moet hê. In wese gaan ontwikkeling gepaard met ekologiese gevare.

Tans word ‘n stelsel van omgewings-impakstudies gebruik om botsende belange te identifiseer, én op te los. Die stelsel is duur, tydrowend en, in baie gevalle, onbetroubaar. Hierdie stelsel sal vervang of aangepas moet word, veral wat betref wie vir die omgewings-impakstudie moet betaal. Op die oomblik geld die beginsel van ``he who pays the piper, calls the tune’’.

In die Oos-Kaap is daar ‘n baie goeie voorbeeld van hoe botsende belange versoen kan word. Die ekonomiese groei en werkskepping by die Addo Olifantpark is een van die beste voorbeelde van wat toerisme en infrastruktuurontwikkeling kan vermag. Meer as 20 000 hektaar grond is aangekoop en by die park gevoeg. Die Addo Olifant Park is die eerste park ter wêreld wat spog met vyf biosfere, naamlik see, duineveld, valleibosveld, subtropiese woude én karoo. Die park word uitstekend bestuur, en spog met die hoogste bedbesetting van al ons nasionale parke, naamlik 92%.

Buitelandse toeriste stroom na Addo, en die park genereer reeds ‘n stewige wins van R2 miljoen die afgelope jaar. Tans werk daar 600 mense in die park, en die bed-en-ontbytondernemings in die onmiddellike omgewing van die park het gestyg van twee tot 32. Talle wildplase en privaat wildparke ontwikkel in die omgewing, en ongekende optimisme en werkskepping is orals duidelik. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I would like to congratulate the hon Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde on the easy way in which she, as chairperson of the committee, handles conflicting view points, and I would like to thank Minister Moosa for the fluent Afrikaans he spoke today.

The hon Reggie September - he is always such a calm man - definitely got out of bed on the wrong side. Hon Reggie, I really do not know the DA you are talking about.

Chairperson, the initiative to extend the area of land which falls under conservation control from the current 5% to 8%, will improve the control and protection of sensitive areas considerably.

The sustained efforts of the department and the public to fight pollution and littering are enthusiastically supported by the DA. There are, however, still problem areas.

The ongoing poaching of our abalone resources remains a blemish on South- Africa’s name. It seems that the political will to eradicate this evil is lacking. The Minister should accept responsibility for the destruction of our abalone resources. Our extremely rare and unique line fish species are still under immense pressure. It has now become essential for further fish parks or reserves to be proclaimed. The desirability of fishing competitions and the activities of spear fishers must be examined closely again.

The mutilation of indigenous trees by muti-collectors and injudicious town planning is still taking place. Historic buildings are still being bulldozed and many local authorities are doing nothing to protect this heritage. The lack of job opportunities and the accompanying poverty are certainly our biggest problem and challenge. The generous budget of R300 million to the fight poverty is welcomed by the DA.

It has now became imperative that conflicting interests of conservation and development be reconciled as a matter of urgency. The militants behaviour of green parties in Europe should serve as a warning that we must solve this problem and that a win-win solution must be found. On the one hand there can never be any justification for our extremely sensitive areas being ruined by development. It is, however equally true that we must have large-scale economic development. In essence, development is accompanied by ecological risks.

Currently a system of environmental impact studies is used to identify and resolve conflicting interests. The system is expensive, time consuming and, in many cases, unreliable. This system will have to be replaced or adapted, especially as regards who must pay for the environmental impact study. At the moment the principle of ``he who pays the piper, calls the tune’’ applies.

In the Eastern Cape, there is a very good example of how conflicting interest can be reconciled. The economic growth and job creation at the Addo Elephant Park is one of the best examples of what tourism and the development of infrastructure can achieve. More than 20 000 hectares of land has been bought and added to the park. The Addo Elephant Park is the first park in the world that can boast five biospheres, namely sea, dunes, valley bushveld, subtropical forests and karoo. The park is being managed extremely well and boasts the highest bed occupation of all our national parks, namely 92%.

Foreign tourists are streaming to Addo and the park has been generating a healthy profit of R2 million for the past year now. Currently 600 people are working in the park and the bed and breakfast enterprises in the immediate vicinity of the park have increased from two to 32. Numerous game farms and private game parks are developing in the area and unprecedented optimism and job creation are evident everywhere.]

Chairman, directly next to the Addo Elephant Park we have the Coega Industrial Development. I know there were many sceptics, but this major development, together with the Addo Elephant Park, will turn the tide in the Eastern Cape. The management of the Coega Development Corporation has treated environmental concerns with great care. [Time expired.]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Deputy Chair, I do not have a famous quote for World Environment Day, just a simple mothers’ moral maxim, and it is: Short-term pleasure equals long-term pain, and short-term pain equals long-term pleasure. Our young hero, Sibusiso Vilane, understands what I am saying, and we salute him.

Today is World Environment Day, and the one word that should be stamped on all our minds is ecosystem. A thriving ecosystem is one in which the web- like interaction of give-and-take relationships is in a state of balance. But neither in Government, nor the world, nor South African society, nor our environment, can we claim to be ecologically balanced. And, if we remain concerned, as we are at present, with our short-term pleasures, we will simply exhaust the earth’s capacity to keep us alive. So, with that in mind, the budget for the environment, hon Minister, is too small. Yet, we support it and the many moves in the right direction by yourself and your department, and the committee - congratulations to all.

We commend the efforts of the co-ordinating committee, but it is not adequately coping with the co-ordination between environment, energy, health, trade and industry, agriculture, and local government. We need far better co-ordination to tackle the issues that I am going to address: Biodiversity, biotechnology, and local initiatives to implement partnerships on the ground. Biodiversity is essential to the survival of life on our planet, and it is threatened by progress. Rightfully, it receives the largest slice of the budget in future, but biotechnology is neglected.

We, as the IFP, do not have a problem with globalisation per se, but we fervently support the concept of decoupling, viz not linking progress with poverty and pollution. The ecological footprint of nations is a measure of how countries use resources compared with the resources the earth has to support them. On a comparative scale, the bad boy - North America - has a footprint of 11 and a capacity of seven. South Africa has a footprint of four and a capacity of 1,5. Australia, one of the better countries, has a footprint of nine and a capacity of 14. Undoubtedly, we are not doing enough to alleviate poverty and use resources efficiently to reduce our footprint.

Solar power is poorly developed. There is no tax relief for good energy policies. We could use the waste of sugar cane to produce ethanol. We could plant and harvest euphorbia, which grows widely in the dry areas of the country, and produce hydrocarbon, which is similar to crude oil. But instead of using our many species, we continue to lose species. Thirty-five per cent of the world’s natural species have been lost in the last 30 years. In Africa, the great apes are threatened. In South Africa, 500 species of fauna and flora are extinct, endangered, vulnerable or threatened.

Biotechnology is a wonderful resource, but interaction of genes in unnatural combinations is unpredictable. Damage could be done to foods and wild plants before we know what to look for. The potential threat of bioterrorism is real. The absence of a paper trail from seed to table will make problems, if and when they do arise, difficult to track. The absence of balanced patenting and intellectual property laws prevents the development of an indigenous herb industry. A good plan has emerged between the SAIMR, the producers of hoodia, the diet food, and Pfizer, but nothing has been done, to my knowledge, about the woman who patented rooibos in the USA. That happened before the summit. Why has somebody not looked after our interests?

One of the best initiatives of the WSSD was the initiative where 30 NGOs received $30 000 each for biodiversity projects. South Africa had no finalists, and that is because our local capacity and autonomy are too weak. Locally, people are not reaping the benefit of tourism or the partnerships emerging from the WSSD. Even we as MPs are peripheral to those partnerships.

In spite of some best practice local initiatives that the Minister mentioned, most projects are not sustainable. To make them so, we should change the top-down nature of Government, and the complex relationship of national, political and local spheres, and the hon Minister, as a prime drafter of the Constitution, should best know how to do that. And talking of authority, the Genetically Modified Organisms Act, Act 15 of 1997, is about to be amended. We request the Minister to ensure that his department makes a significant input, so that the interests of environmentalists and agriculturalists are balanced.

Hon Minister, our biotechnology capacity - if developed with job creation, safety and indigenous people in mind - could turn South Africa’s natural plant heritage into a Garden of Eden. [Time expired.]

Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Chairperson, Minister, hon members, the achievement of democracy in South Africa in 1994 has brought about participation of stakeholders and the public in policy formulation. In particular, it has raised the level of awareness around environmental issues and public debate to promote policy aimed at achieving sustainable development, rather than serving narrow group and sectoral interests. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has taken the lead in this regard.

Clearly, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has - in carrying out its mandate as enshrined in our Constitution, that makes provision for each citizen to have the right to a healthy environment and the right to have the environment protected - raised the importance of environmental issues in all spheres of our life, whether politically, socially or economically, to a higher level. In developing sound policies for the environment, the department has been able to capture both national and international approaches. That is why South Africa is ahead of many developing countries in sustainable policy development.

Currently, South Africa is a signatory to 17 international environmental conventions, and to make sure that we meet our obligations in terms of these conventions, the department has developed policies, strategies, national action plans and implementation plans. The department has put in place mechanisms and systems to achieve its goals of protecting our environment and bringing about air free of pollution. In this regard, R114 million has been set aside for this purpose. Timeframes have been put in place to achieve these goals.

On the integrated state of the environment reporting system, it is expected that all provinces will complete state of environment reports by 2004, all Category A and C municipalities will have completed similar reports by 2006- 07, and all municipalities will report annually on a core set of environmental or sustainable development indicators.

On an effective system for compliance, monitoring and enforcement for pollution and waste, timeframes and indicators are in place. Successful prosecution of polluting companies is an ongoing process, and by December this year, the department expects to complete Thor Chemicals’ clean-up. The production and use of asbestos was banned in South Africa in March 2003.

On effective waste minimisation, the Waste Management Bill will be promulgated by September. Revised waste management standards and an effective local permitting system will be operational by December 2003. The R10 million per year in 2003-04 and 2004-05 were budgeted for the establishment of a rapid response unit for pollution control. Without doubt, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has fulfilled its mandate, and is continuing to do so. This is further reflected by the strategic environmental assessment or SEA for the Vaal Triangle, an initiative by the department, together with Gauteng and Free State departments responsible for the environment, in partnership with industry in the area, led by Sasol industries.

The initiative is aimed at identifying all environmental constraints, which may inhibit further industrial and economic development in the area, while

• at the same time - identifying potential opportunities for further industrial and economic development. Whilst these are being done, a strategy will be developed to address these constraints, and promote development in the area.

The main outcome of the SEA will be development of a regional environmental management framework, which will give guidance for future development. One of the constraints is the unacceptable level of air pollution in the area, and its effects on health. This has been recorded in detail in various studies, including the Vaal air pollution health study, which recommended that an extensive air quality monitoring system be set up in the area. Based on the recommendations of this study, one of the outcomes of the proposed SEA will be the development of an air quality management system that will incorporate the air quality monitoring system for the Vaal Triangle region.

The South Durban basin is one of the most industrialised areas in the country, and therefore of very significant value to the economy, not only of Durban, but also of the country as a whole. However, further economic growth and development in this area is being constrained by the unacceptable levels of toxic industrial emissions, which adversely affect the health and wellbeing of neighbouring communities. To remedy this situation and promote chances for further growth, the South Durban basin received multilevel Government intervention, led by the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, in the form of a multipoint plan to improve air quality. This is a most comprehensive and all-inclusive intervention, and perhaps the only one in the country in which all levels of Government have entered into a partnership with communities and industry with the common purpose of addressing air pollution problems.

In conclusion, the department has successfully raised the level of consciousness of the people of South Africa around environmental issues, and that having a healthier environment in the future depends on the institution of a good environmental management system that involves a clear partnership between Government and civil society. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Thank you very much, Chairperson. The hon Kalako has more than adequately dealt with the matter that was raised by hon Roopnarain concerning the Durban South industrial basin. But she also said something very interesting, namely that sustainable development should not be an add-on. Unfortunately she is not here. [Interjections.] She is not even a member of the committee?

An HON MEMBER: No!

The MINISTER: Oh, that probably explains her lack of familiarity with the issues. [Interjections.] She is a new member? I am told that she is a new member of the committee. [Interjections.] Anyway, she said that sustainable development should not be an add-on, but she then went on to appeal to me to allow people to drive their vehicles onto the beach to load up sardines. Perhaps once she has been a member of the committee, for a little while longer, she will not say such contradictory things. It was quite contradictory, I must say.

Let me just say, in that regard, that quite a bit has been said about the sardine run. A few people have applied for permission to drive their vehicles onto the beach to load up sardines but the regulations require one to do more than just write a nice note to the Minister and say: ``Please allow me to drive my vehicle on the beach’’. It requires one to give reasons. One has to say how one intends to do it, when one intends to do it. One has got to advertise one’s intention to do it so that other users of the beach have an opportunity to make their views known. Now, almost all the applications that we have received were, in fact, invalid applications that could not even be considered. [Interjections.] And they did not even collect any sardines.

I was quite amazed by the wonderful speech of the hon Rabinowitz. Listening to her, one would really think that things are terrible in this country. Everything is going wrong. I think the hon members should just try to be a little more optimistic and upbeat. If she is a member of the portfolio committee, then the hon Mahlangu . . . [Interjections.] Oh, she is not. Otherwise we would have invited her to our party so that she could have chilled out a bit. I think that is what is needed. [Interjections.] Chill out a bit. I think that is really what is needed. I happened to hear her on the radio, I think it was this morning, and I was quite amazed at her negative attitude about everything. [Interjections.]

Things are not that bad. Things are going very well. And I can tell you that we have a far stronger … [Interjections.] She had lots of bad things to say about people at grassroots level and local level. We have a very, very strong grassroots movement in this country. Wherever one goes in this country, one will find local people, organised in religious formations, in church bodies, youth organisations, women’s organisations, and environmental groups. We have a very strong grassroots movement in this country and, in fact, one of the things that many people admire about us is that we have a vibrant civil society and vibrant political life.

Many political parties, when one talks about the ANC and our bilateral relations with political parties around the world, envy us for being a truly mass-based political party with hundreds of functioning branches all over the country. Very few political parties work like that. Even in the most developed and highly industrialised countries, those political parties have no real grassroots life about them. And we have that in our country. [Applause.]

To the hon Mbadi - I do not know where he is. I am happy that he took this opportunity to promote tourism in the northern part of the Eastern Cape. I take it that is what he was talking about. I do not know if it was the appropriate opportunity, Chairperson, to do that, but he also used the opportunity to promote KwaDukuza, but that is all right. [Laughter.] Maybe I should get Cheryl Carrolus to put all members on a tour, to sell their parts of the country, because they did it very well.

Let me just say that the Eastern Cape Province recently launched the Eastern Cape tourism master plan. I can commend it to members and assure them that, in that master plan, they certainly have taken into account all of the wonders of the Eastern Cape, including the northern Eastern Cape that the member talked about.

As far as the Pondoland National Park is concerned, this is something we have been working on for quite a few years and that part of the country needs a national park. One of the other speakers, I think it was the hon Le Roux, spoke about the success of the Addo Elephant Park. If one looks at that, we are quite convinced that the Pondoland National Park will have similar levels of success. We will create a tourism economy, we will create secondary business opportunities for people in and around the area. But, also the Pondoland coast is very, very unique, both from a biodiversity point of view, but also from the point of view of its geological formations. It is one of the few areas where one has such a high density of waterfalls falling directly into the ocean, for example.

But we have not been able to reach an agreement with the Eastern Cape. The Eastern Cape government has, for some reason, not been in favour of the establishment of a Pondoland national park. So, this is a discussion that is going on. Perhaps I will refer to it in my discussion tomorrow in the debate in the NCOP. But, if members have any influence, I think that I will appreciate it. I have been trying to convince them for years to let us establish a Pondoland national park, but they said they do not see any sense in it. And, as members know, I am not an authoritarian type of person, so I have left it at that.

On the issue raised by the hon Mahlangu-Nkabinde about the chocolates on South African Airways which are made overseas frankly that is something I will take up with them, although it is not my portfolio. We will look into that. I do not know if it is proper for her to ask me to speak to Pick ‘n Pay to have enough stocks of the green bags. That is not really the role of the Minister, but I understand what she is saying. What she has done in calling that particular store is something that many, many people are doing.

As members know, that we have established a hotline in the department and we have called on people who have knowledge of what is happening on the ground, to call in. And, originally, we set it up just for people to tell us about retailers who are not adhering to the regulations, so that we could do something about it. So, a lot of ordinary people are really becoming the plastic bags inspectorate themselves. They are calling in and then the department, the officials over there, take some or other form of action. But many people are also calling in to give us good news stories, to tell us what a difference it is making and how retailers and consumers in fact are complying.

On the question from the hon Koornhof regarding the inadequate amount for land acquisition, I do not think that we could ever have an adequate amount for land acquisition. Let us face it. What we have to remember - we are doing a number of things - is that Government funding is often used to leverage other funding. As members know, there is the National Parks Trust, which is also driven by and involves the private sector. It is a partnership that also raises money for land acquisition. So these are not the only funds available for land acquisition.

What we have also done is that about two years ago we published the Bioregional Approach to Conservation. What it does is that it uses the national parks as the core centres of bigger conservation areas. And for land to be protected, for the biodiversity to be protected, it does not always have to be a national park. It could be a national park, it could be communal land, it could be private land, it could be municipal land, so there are a variety of ways in which one can do it and the national parks really act as the core. I am sure members are familiar with the bioregional plan that we have.

As far as mining on the Pondoland coast is concerned, what shall I say? I am opposed to it. It does not make sense. I think that I agree fully that we will regret it in the long run if we mine those pristine dunes and that beautiful coastline, that a much more sustainable form of job creation and economic activity can be created through ecotourism and other sustainable forms of development of economic activity in those regions. [Applause.] So, it is something that I certainly am not in favour of.

Let me tell members that the Minister of Minerals and Energy has not, at any point in time, spoken in favour of mining or herself ever given the go- ahead. What has been happening presently has been purely on the basis of speculation, but there is no Government permission, as such, and it is a matter that she and I have discussed in great detail. It is a discussion that will continue between us. I do not see any need, at this stage, for me to call on Parliament to intervene on my behalf. I do not think that would be necessary.

As far as the comments of you yourself, hon Chairperson, are concerned, on the question of tyres, we are thinking of a number of things. I just want to share some thoughts with you. One of the things we thought of doing is using the same system as the Coke bottle deposit system. So, when you buy a tyre, hon Hanekom, for your Pajero … [Laughter.] … then you would pay a deposit on the tyre. You would get the deposit back when you returned the tyre, once it is no longer usable.

This means that if somebody sees a tyre lying around, they would be able to pick it up and take it in and collect a deposit. That is one of the schemes we are thinking about, because it adds value to rubbish. In fact what would happen is that you will not have a problem with your old tyres, Derek, because people will steal them in order to go and collect the deposit. That is what would happen.

We are trying to add so much value to the rubbish in our country that, sooner or later, like plastic bags that are being stolen now, one will have to keep all one’s rubbish under lock and key, because it will have a tremendous value. [Laughter.] So that is what we are going to do. I do not know, Chairperson, if that would meet with your approval.

As far as landfills are concerned, chairperson you raised that matter also. The Director-General is, together with the Director-General of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, in the process of transferring the landfill function from the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. [Applause.] And that is a process that is taking place. Once that happens, it is our intention to involve the provinces and the metros in landfill sites, because this is becoming a problem. Certainly, in our metropolitan areas, we are going to run out of space.

The hon Chalmers mentioned that the committee was waiting enthusiastically for the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill. Both the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill and the Protected Areas Bill have been tabled in Parliament. I am quite certain that the committee will be considering them pretty soon. I was very pleased to hear her report about what is happening in the Blue Crane Municipality. I think that was a very pleasing report indeed and we should do everything to encourage them.

As far as a national botanical garden for the Eastern Cape is concerned, national botanical gardens are very, very special places. Once established, they would remain with us and with future generations forever. So we have to take great care where and how we establish national botanical gardens. We have given the instruction to the National Botanical Institute that a garden should be established in the Eastern Cape. They have recently investigated a number of sites and submitted those reports to me. None of those sites investigated appear to be suitable, but the work is continuing.

I can assure members that a botanical garden will be established, but I do not want to put pressure on the institute to establish something just so that I can report that we have established a botanical garden in the Eastern Cape. It has got to be in the right place, it has got to be a proper thing and something that will compete with all of the big, famous gardens of the world. Regarding the hon Maxwell Moss, I cannot remember what he said, other than saying certain things about members who are not in this House. I appreciate the comments that he made, particularly on the extent of the changes and the transformation that have taken place and the stability in the fishing industry.

It is amazing. You know, we did a calculation the other day. Approximately 5 000 applicants applied for fishing quotas. Of those, more or less, one in every two were successful. So, 50% of the applicants were successful. Sometimes the public has the impression that most people who apply for quotas fail. In fact, it is not the truth. And then, of all the applicants, a very small percentage challenged our decisions in court. In fact, something like 0,02%, much less than 1% - we did a calculation. And even then, I am happy to say, in most of those court challenges, the courts ruled in favour of Government. I was very pleased on the whole. So, there is a tremendous amount of stability. We are now in the middle of the medium- term allocations and, next year, we will have to start with the next round of allocations.

The hon Koornhof said that tourism is a very difficult industry to transform and empowerment and transformation do not take place in exactly the same way. I must tell him that every industry has that, every industry. If one talks about a mining industry, they would say: Well, you know, transformation and black empowerment are not all that easy.'' If one talks about financial services, the banks would tell one the same thing:You know, we do not buy and sell things, we just deal in money. How do you sell money to people with our own money?’’ So everybody has a long story about why it is difficult.

It is not that difficult in tourism, as far as I am concerned. I think we have been able to make a tremendous amount of progress. One of those areas in which we can easily make a difference is with regard to tour guides.

You know, it is very unfortunate, and it is not just a question of many of the tour guides being white, many of them are actually just plain silly, so what they do is they themselves talkdown the country - because they see white people from Europe, and they think: ``Oh well, amongst fellow whites, I can expose my racist attitudes’’ - and they tend to do that. So there is a bigger problem. It is actually affecting the industry itself. It is not just about changing around the colours as such.

Douglas, your friends probably are the first who do these things. I am quite certain of that. [Interjections.]

Thank you very much to all of the members of the committee, and all of those who participated in the debate. I can assure them that their words will serve as great encouragement for the team in the department and in the institutions allied to the department. I have no doubt that, from here, they will redouble their efforts in order to fulfil that which you as public representatives feel should be their mission. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF CARTAGENA PROTOCOL ON BIOSAFETY TO THE CONVENTION ON BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY

There was no debate.

Cartegena Protocol on Biosafety to the Convention on Biological Diversity approved.

The House adjourned at 18:55.