National Council of Provinces - 05 June 2003
TUESDAY, 5 JUNE 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:04.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I was commenting that it is most unusual that hon members convene in a quorum so quickly after the bells. I believe, hon Minister, it is out of respect for your presence that we saw such a response.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of this Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) the HIV/Aids pandemic is South Africa's worst crisis as
Government has no adequate treatment plan;
(b) the Government's flawed policies to fight the disease have
contributed to the erosion of the socioeconomic stability of the
nation; and
(c) Government policy decisions have given rise to scandals such as
-
(i) Sarafina;
(ii) the Virodene embarrassment; and
(iii) an international HIV/Aids summit held in Durban to
ascertain whether HIV leads to Aids, elevating the views
of dissidents as infallible and refusing to make
antiretroviral drugs available and thereby
procrastinating in taking action regarding the prevention
of mother-to-child transmission and the treatment of rape
victims;
(2) therefore calls on Government to -
(a) review its HIV/Aids policy in the light of the current 12%, an
estimated 5 million people, of South Africans living with
HIV/Aids, estimated to increase to 17% in 2006 and between 600
and 1 600 people estimated to be dying daily of Aids-related
illnesses;
(b) speedily implement the provision of antiretroviral treatment to
Aids patients;
(c) form partnerships with NGOs and CBOs utilising their expertise
and proven track record in working with HIV/Aids patients;
(d) fund NGO training programmes, that already have adequate
infrastructure and personnel, to train our nurses and other
health workers to effectively treat Aids patients;
(e) improve relations with health workers and to listen to their
remonstrations on the whole question of Aids treatment; and
(f) declare a health state of emergency with notification, tracing
and compulsory testing going hand in hand with antiretroviral
treatment.
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:
That the Council - (1) takes note of comments attributed to Mr Thami Mazwai, where he is alleged to have said in a briefing to a parliamentary portfolio committee meeting: ``I feel that objectivity is a delusion. The notion known as objectivity does not exist.’’;
(2) expresses its concern that the comments made by Mr Mazwai, in his capacity as SABC News Programming Chairman, are disturbing and shows another attempt to muzzle the press, or get the Fourth Estate to be a lackey of the state;
(3) is of the view that one-sided, unbalanced reporting, or worse, to impede editorial independence and media freedom, is the last thing needed in the new democratic South Africa, where freedom of the press is one of the cornerstones of democracy.
BRUTAL VIOLATION OF MINOR
(Draft Resolution) Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) condemns in strongest terms the brutal violation of an eight-year-old girl who was lured to a nearby house while playing in the streets of KwaThema in the East Rand;
(2) notes that this is the latest in a series of sexual attacks on minors in the area;
(3) further notes that she was lured by a man in his early 40s, old enough to be the child’s father; and
(4) calls upon the community of the East Rand and nearby areas to assist the police in apprehending the suspect so that if convicted, he should rot in jail where he belongs.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. DONATION OF LAP DESKS TO SCHOOLS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) appreciates the donation of 500 lap desks to five schools in KwaZulu- Natal as donated by BP South Africa, through solicitation by Mr Murray van der Aardweg;
(2) congratulates four primary schools at Mahlabathini district and one high school at Nkandla district for having benefited from this donation;
(3) hopes that these acquired resources will be utilised to the benefit of teaching and learning, thus equipping our nation with learned human resources; and
(4) appeals to the Department of Education to improve the supply of learning resources to all schools, be they urban or rural.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SAS SPIOENKOP
(Draft Resolution)
Me E C GOUWS: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad kennis neem dat -
(1) die Suid-Afrikaanse Vloot se derde korvet, F147, op ‘n plegtigheid by die Duitse Skeepswerf Blohm-Voss tot die SAS Spioenkop gedoop is;
(2) die skip genoem is na die bekende veldslag in die Anglo-Boere-oorlog waar ‘n klein groepie boere in ‘n bloedige stryd teen ‘n Britse oormag betrokke was en gewen het;
(3) die Spioenkop volgende maand te water gelaat word;
(4) die twee ander korvette, SAS Amatola en SAS Isandlwana, reeds op pad is en onderskeidelik in September en Desember in Simonstad sal aankom; en
(5) die korvette ingespan sal word om ons gebiedswaters te verdedig, mariene-hulpbronne te beskerm en noodlenigingswerk in Afrika te doen. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council notes that -
(1) the South African Navy’s third corvette, F147, was named the SAS Spioenkop during a ceremony at the Blohm-Voss shipyard in Germany;
(2) the ship was named after the famous battle during the Anglo-Boer War in which a small group of Boers was involved in a bloody battle against a British superior power and won;
(3) the Spioenkop will take to the water next month;
(4) the other two corvettes, SAS Amatola and SAS Isandlwana, are already on their way and will arrive in Simon’s Town in September and December respectively; and
(5) the corvettes will be used to defend our territorial waters, protect marine resources and do relief work in Africa.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
``ROAD MAP'' PEACE PLAN
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates Palestinian and Israeli leaders on their successful meeting in resolving the Middle East crisis;
(2) notes that this was an important step towards achieving peace in the Middle East;
(3) further notes that Prime Ministers Sharon and Abbas have committed themselves to the implementation of the “road map” peace plan;
(4) believes that it was through the collective efforts of world leaders that these two leaders have come to realise the need to commit themselves to the “road map” peace plan;
(5) further believes that it is through negotiations that peace can be achieved; and
(6) therefore calls upon the Israeli and Palestinian citizens to give these negotiations a chance as a means of achieving long-lasting peace in the region.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SPEEDY ARREST AND CONVICTION OF ATTACKERS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N C NKONDLO: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) welcomes the speedy arrest and successful conviction of four teenagers and a 20-year-old that attacked and robbed two women researchers near Peddie in the Eastern Cape in September last year;
(2) once more congratulates the police on their sterling work in apprehending these criminals; and
(3) calls upon the community to always co-operate with the police and report any similar cases in future.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
AFRICAN COLLECTIVE AT THE EVIAN G8 SUMMIT
(Draft Resolution)
Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I wish to move a motion without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes and congratulates achievements by the Presidents of South Africa, Nigeria, Algeria and Senegal as collective at the Evian G8 Summit;
(2) notes that through this collective leadership an amount of approximately US$19,7 billion for development assistance and funding of specific projects has been promised for the continent;
(3) further notes that G8 members have committed themselves to support efforts of establishing the peacekeeping force for Africa;
(4) believes that it was through the hard work of all African leaders that such achievements have been attained; and
(5) therefore calls on all other African countries who have not yet signed the Protocol Relating to the Establishment of the Peace and Security Council of the African Union to do so so as to show the world that Africans work as a collective.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MINE BAN TREATY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) takes note that as at 9 May 2003 there were still 47 countries who had not yet signed the 1997 Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction, known as the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, which to date has been signed by 147 signatories or accessories and 134 ratifications or accessions of or approvals; and (2) calls on all the countries which have as yet not signed this Mine Ban Treaty to consider doing so, as soon as possible.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Review of policy)
Vote No 6 - Public Works:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Madam Chairperson and hon members, in this House my approach to the budget will be more in the form of reporting on some of the things that we have done for particular departments in the provinces so that people will know what it is that we are doing because there is always a debate about what our responsibilities are.
While it is the delivery of services to our people that has turned the tide in our country, let us discuss what it is that the national Department of Public Works contributes in particular in ensuring that South Africa has a built environment sufficient to the needs of the state.
Under the Capital Works Programme, ten years ago, the Fixed Asset Portfolio of the state was regarded as nothing but bricks and mortar to house the machinery of the state in some of its heinous activities. Today our Government has added a human face to this function.
Our Capital Works portfolio has inherent socioeconomic opportunities which include, first, the provision of conducive physical space out of which other government departments can work. Second, there is the promotion of black economic empowerment particularly in the property and construction industries, which are the direct and main beneficiaries of Public Works’ capital works investment.
Third, we have the stimulation of the construction and building industries as catalysts of the Reconstruction and Development Programme including infrastructure development, job creation and human resource development as enshrined in the President’s vision of the Expanded Public Works Programme.
For the second consecutive year, the national Department of Public Works has succeeded in spending almost 100% of its Capital Works budget, as well as the R557 million of its maintenance budget.
In 2003-04, the national Department of Public Works, providing and managing accommodation for the state, will operate a Capital Works budget totalling R1,9 million. This includes the entire building programme that the department manages. A breakdown per province of the budget is: Gauteng, R690 million; Western Cape, R368 million; KwaZulu-Natal, R217 million; Eastern Cape, R212 million; Free State, R143 million; North West, R127 million; Mpumalanga, R58 million; Northern Cape, R57 million, and Limpopo, R36 million.
I want to explain that in some of this budget it will appear as if the amounts are small. It is just that some of the work was done the previous year. We must also remember that Gauteng and the Western Cape are the ones who deal with prestige accommodation for the Presidency, the Ministerial complexes, Parliament and the Union Buildings.
With an allocation of R900 million in 2003-04, the Department of Correctional Services is the largest investor with the Department of Public Works for the improvement of physical accommodation. Other departments are Justice and Constitutional Development with R229 million; SAPS with R208; and Arts and Culture with R145 million. Those are just the top four.
In line with the Government’s strategy to prioritise security and crime prevention, projects for the Department of Correctional Services, SAPS and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development assume a special importance.
Executing the commissions on behalf of our client departments, we highlight some of the projects. In the Department of Correctional Services, a major step in the development of prisons in South Africa today is the New Generations Prison Initiative. Together with the Department of Correctional Services, my department is involved in the design of a prototype prison which would result in the converging of all prison demands in a functional and efficient facility to produce cost-effective operation and maintenance, without neglecting the legal and social objectives necessary in a correctional facility.
Innovative developments include reduced numbers of inmates in a unit that is individually managed and controlled as opposed to the traditional system. The prototype will also bring, through its procurement facilities, support of black economic empowerment, as projects will be packaged into smaller contracts. This is expected to be rolled out throughout South Africa. At the start there will be four initial projects which are already out on tender for Kimberley, Klerksdorp, Nigel and Leeuwkop.
As a strategy to reverse the maintenance backlog on our fixed properties, we started the Repair and Maintenance Programme, Ramp, about three years ago. Correctional Services was among our initial clients for Ramp. Today all prisons in South Africa are under varying stages of Ramp and the programme represents a major component of Capital Works.
Prisons at Kirkwood, Port Elizabeth, Mdantsane, Middelburg and Middledrift are some of the facilities where Ramp is being implemented as part of the R83 million used by the Department of Correctional Services in their budget, that is, for the Eastern Cape. In Mpumalanga, we are currently progressing at Barberton, Witbank and Bethal out of a R47 million Correctional Services investment.
In KwaZulu-Natal, besides Ramp projects, my department has finalised and handed over a R58 million housing project at the Empangeni Prison where 84 single quarters and 178 houses were constructed for the Correctional Services personnel. Major renovations and upgradings are continuing at the Durban-Westville Prison as part of our R141 million Capital Works budget for KwaZulu-Natal.
When we come to the SAPS, who are our latest entrants to join Ramp, in the Free State, projects worth R30 million are being executed for them. These include the construction of proposed police stations at Thabong, Namahadi and Batho near Bloemfontein.
Almost every province has acquired a community safety centre as part of Government’s integrated approach to fighting crime and creating a safe and secure environment. Most of these safety centres were built and handed over to the Department of Safety and Security as the lead department. These include Thembalethu, Khutsong, Leboeng, and Tshidilamolomo.
The construction of the R28 million Galeshewe Community Safety Centre near Kimberley is progressing very well, and we are expecting the centre to be operational in early 2004. At Kentani in the Eastern Cape, we have a centre that is finished and is awaiting official opening. In the Western Cape, Limpopo, Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal, we also have similar centres. A community safety centre near Welkom in the Free State is under planning.
At Namahadi we are spending R27 million and in Batho R12,4 million for police stations, as well as R10,5 million for a police station at Tsolo. We know the history of Tsolo. Major upgradings are underway at Pietermaritzburg’s old Magistrate’s Court at a cost of R6,8 million and at the Pietermaritzburg Colonial Building at a cost of R14,4 million in KwaZulu-Natal. The Cinderella Prison is still a problem.
My department has focused special attention on addressing the dolomite problems in Defence-occupied areas in Thaba Tshwane with special reference to the Waterkloof Airforce Base. This project has currently been rolled out to cover the rest of the affected area. The emphasis is on activating an early warning system, monitoring and remedial actions.
Furthermore a new communication tower is being constructed at the Waterkloof Airforce Base. A major repair programme is underway at the dry dock in Simons Town where the new Navy headquarters that are currently in the design phase will also be situated. Additional accommodation and renovation work are underway at the Hoedspruit and Louis Trichardt Airforce Bases respectively in the Limpopo.
The Department of Arts and Culture commissioned us to expend R54,8 million on museums and other projects in 2002-03. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has a new facility for weather observation and scientific research on Marion Island to the value of R117 million over a period of three years and this is actually being planned to replace the existing deteriorated infrastructure.
The Ramp initiative has also been applied to upgrade fishing harbours, and I am sure that the people in the Western Cape will smile, in order to provide vital support to the fishing industry in the Western Cape. Currently 15 constructors have been appointed at eight harbours. This is for a contract value of R85 million, opening up 900 new job opportunities. On schedule for the end of 2004, we are looking at 27 contracts at all 12 fishing harbours with a contract value of R161,5 million and we are expecting the opening up of 1 700 job opportunities.
When we talk of the Expanded Public Works Programme - this follows the announcement by the President in February - it has the department taking concrete steps to ensure that the concept of an EPWP is fully understood and supported within and outside of Government. Though co-ordinated by the Department of Public Works, this is a national effort which will mean the participation of Government, business, unions and civil society in general.
Part of our challenge is to ensure that objectives of the EPWP are properly understood, these being job creation, poverty alleviation, investment in social and economic infrastructure, and human resource development through the training of participants.
The key focus areas where the Department of Public Works is in a position to optimise contributions are through the use of labour-based methods, emerging contractor support programmes and a procurement policy that will ensure responsiveness, uniformity and adjustment throughout all spheres of government, and monitoring and evaluation to ensure mechanisms to track developments focused on objectives and targets.
Then we have the Community-Based Public Works Programmes. Since 1999 until the end of 2003, we achieved a total of 2 517 rural infrastructure projects with 106 000 job opportunities created. A total of 39 125 jobs were taken up by women, 47 323 by the youth, and 2 249 by people with disabilities. We managed to create 3 273 sustainable jobs.
The community production centres and the 37 operational MPCCs have made a big difference to the lives of our people. They are really turning the tide. Wherever you go in South Africa, everyone says that they want a multipurpose community centre.
When we started with the concept of the CPCs, we were moving away from dealing with community gardens all over South Africa, and we felt that the infrastructure which was lying neglected and had been in some of the homelands needed, for the good of the people, to be revitalised.
We started at the Lambasi CPC which is producing an average of 2 500 tons of maize per year in an area of 500 hectares. The mealie sales that we have had, on average of 1 300 tons, have realised, just for this year, R2,6 million. As a byproduct, they are breeding chickens, and 80 000 of those were sold in the past financial year and they have realised R1,3 million. This is money that eventually deals with the needs of the communities.
At Ncora which in its days of glory was said to be the biggest in Southern Africa and which, together with the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs we are trying to activate, we are selling cabbages from 10 hectares and, over a period of a month, the sales that have been paid for amount up to R40 000. The seedlings for cabbages were produced in a nursery by locals. A group of women who have technical support from the Agricultural Research Council is experimenting in the production of herbs.
At the Highlands CPC, 640 hectares have been fenced and a 100 of these have been put under maize. Partnership with the Department of Agriculture’s Mass Food Production will consolidate and extend the benefits to about 400 households. With 10 hectares under cabbage, about R20 000 from one hectare has already been realised.
At Keiskammahoek the people entered into a private partnership with Clover. We have improved the irrigation infrastructure and because of that, they are already managing to milk 51 cows, and the Land Bank has promised them money for buying more dairy cows. At the Elandskraal CPC, the community is benefiting from the rehabilitation of irrigation infrastructure while approximately 290 small farmers are engaged in reaping the winter wheat crops for subsistence consumption and local markets. In upper Arabie, still in Limpopo, we have an area that covers approximately 540 hectares and is supporting about 400 small-scale farmers. We have built an irrigation system with rehabilitated and new irrigation infrastructure there.
Then, regarding Mpumalanga, there is an interesting product there. We call this the Cairn Lemon CPC. The community is benefiting from the rehabilitation of the bulk water supply, the development of a lemon orchard and the rehabilitation of irrigation infrastructure. This CPC has a secured market with Coca Cola which is their primary market.
In KwaZulu-Natal, we have 18 local women and five men farming about 18 hectares, and these people are growing various crops and have an easy market not only in the form of the local hawkers, but also the town market. Other facilities that have been created are a packing house, storage facilities, toilets, a crèche and a road in order to reach the markets. Profits are shared between members, and dividends are based on the member’s contribution to the crop production.
At the Makhathini Flats in KwaZulu-Natal, the Department of Public Works has completed the infrastructure provision. The provincial department of agriculture is busy with production and development though there are some land claims around this particular matter. In Schmidtsdrift, you will remember that the people were given back their land and we now have 770 households who farm with goats and sheep.
The provision of fencing and the rehabilitation of the water supply will enable them to graduate from subsistence to a commercial level of farming. At Qwaqwa, we did have some problems which led to the withdrawal of the money, but the IDT and we are not giving up. We will go back there with the help, I want to believe, of the two MECs concerned.
I would like to invite the provinces to identify and suggest tracts of land that could be suitable for community production centres. Many people stand to benefit and we can together fight the battle against poverty, in particular through food production. The partnership we have with the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs is sure to pay dividends. Indeed we are proud because these are not dreams, but results that are concrete and visible among communities.
In an effort to keep the projects sustainable, an allocation of R6,5 million aimed at revitalisation was given to municipalities. Mostly the youth will be working on these projects and we hope that we shall have positive results which will lead to a situation where we no longer have white elephants.
In the construction industry, the Department of Public Works will be initiating a process of transformation via a framework this year in partnership with other infrastructure departments and the private sector.
This will culminate in a transformation charter. To promote the construction industry as an asset of the country and to attract young students into the industry, the department will be driving a campaign to establish a construction industry development week.
Another initiative will be the incubator programme. The objective of this programme is to provide sustainable work opportunities, training and access to finance to black construction enterprises of significant size to develop them to the status of established construction enterprises. Projects valued at between a minimum of R2 million up to a threshold of R25 million will be identified exclusively for these enterprises over a period of time.
Coming to our budget for the financial year 2003-04, the Department of Public Works is presenting a budget of R4,47 billion. The provision for land and accommodation accounts for 86% of the budget and the national Public Works Programme for 7%, thus leaving 7% of our total budget for administration and other auxiliary and associated services.
During the current fiscal year, the department will also facilitate the planned gradual devolution of budgetary allocations to client departments, starting with the devolution of rates and taxes in respect of provincial properties to the provinces, in the next financial year. This will be followed by other operational budgets in subsequent years.
In line with this arrangement, an amount of R576 million for rates and taxes applicable to provincial governments shall be devolved to them for purposes of payment and administration with effect from the next financial year.
The amounts to be devolved categorised per province are: Eastern Cape, R35 million; Free State, R72 million - I am sure my friend is smiling; Gauteng, R180 million; KwaZulu-Natal, R97 million; Limpopo, R6 million; Mpumalanga, R15 million; North West, R73 million; Northern Cape, R13 million; and the Western Cape with R85 million. The capacitation of provinces in respect of the new administration responsibilities will be carried out in the course of this year.
We have not, in whatever it is that we are doing, forgotten that there are women out there. We are proud that in the construction industry we have set aside moneys which make us proud in making sure that we have an up-and- coming group of women in the construction industry who have succeeded in doing and presenting and making sure that their work is invaluable, who have not left projects incomplete.
In conclusion, I wish to thank all members and in particular MECs for their continued dedication and support and the way in which we are able to interact. I want to assure you that your efforts and input enrich our planning and implementation.
I would also like to thank the IDT for its … [Inaudible.] It is not the path for it to be the implementing agent for so many departments, but it is trying its level best, and we really want to make sure that we give it all the support it requires. [Applause.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Madam Chairperson, the hon Minister and Deputy Minister of Public Works, hon members and special delegates, since 1994, our ANC-led Government has initiated various programmes that are at the centre of poverty eradication. Accordingly the Department of Public Works has become one of the torchbearers in our endeavours to push back the frontiers of poverty.
Given its unique position as a catalyst for job creation, it has made huge strides in responding to the challenges of poverty brought to bear on especially rural communities by lack of infrastructure such as clinics, police stations, justice centres, schools and many more. It is against this background that the twin challenges of the Urban Renewal Programme and Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy were put to us by President Mbeki in his state of the nation address in 2001.
In terms of the President’s injunction, 13 nodes were identified. For the National Council of Provinces, the implementation of anchor projects that would sustain development and progress in these nodes is central to both programmes. The programmes also represent a governmental effort to redress the legacies of the past, and to place these areas on a new developmental trajectory. In order to achieve this fundamental break from the perpetuating poverty and underdevelopment, the criteria for project identification and support is central. Government’s aim is to bring all three spheres of government together, in a co-ordinated and integrated manner.
It is envisaged that development of the nodes will depend on inter alia, economic and social infrastructure, human resource development, enterprise development and the enhancement of the development capacity of local government. We believe that the Department of Public Works is committed to the realisation of this vision, and that its programmes are, in fact, aligned with and informed by the continued persistence of massive socioeconomic infrastructure in spatial imbalances. As a consequence, the department has adopted new policy frameworks to accelerate infrastructural development as a conduit for sustainable job creation.
The ANC believes that the fundamentals are in place and that the approach of ensuring citizens participate in activities that seek to develop and shape their communities is the correct one. As a point of departure, the department established a national Community-Based Public Works Programme with a bias towards infrastructure creation. These programmmes have delivered tangible benefits and job opportunities in South Africa’s poorest provinces, notably Eastern Cape, Limpopo, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and the North West. Moreover the social impact of the programme has positioned the CBPWP programme as an integral part of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme of Government, and the largest beneficiary of the Poverty Relief Fund.
It is in that context that, in 1997, the International Labour Organisation judged the Community-Based Public Works Programme as being the best in over 30 developing countries. What is significant is the involvement of provincial and local government in the implementation of the programme and the supportive role of traditional leaders. The latter often make land available for infrastructure, although we must say that, in other areas, there are problems which still need to be resolved. Directly productive assets such as bakeries, vegetable gardens, market stalls and taxi ranks have contributed to bringing certain services and economic empowerment to some of our people.
In line with its mandate of accelerating the realisation of socioeconomic objectives of Government, CBPW manages a host of special projects. One such project is community production centres. These are communal, commercial centres for marketing and private sector partnering, often utilising and adding value to the local factors of production such as land. The hon Minister has gone on at length to reflect on the achievements which have been attained through these CPC programmes.
As stated by the President Thabo Mbeki during the state of the nation address on February 14 this year, further improvement in the quality of life of our people requires that we take new measures to increase the volume and the quality of our investment in the social infrastructure and improve our performance relative to the previous year. In this regard, we welcome the announcement by the President of South Africa with regard to the allocation of additional resources to meet this obligation, and also the launch of an Expanded Public Works Programme.
This applies similarly to the expansion of the network of the multipurpose community centres because, during our provincial visits, communities were actually demanding these MPCCs which serve as one-stop centres - where the poorer sections of our communities are actually being extended - for those communities where they were not yet established. According to the Government Communications and Information System, 37 MPCCs are currently operational and, according to their business plan, their intended roll out is to have a total of 60 by the year 2005. We are also encouraged by the phasing in of an electronic version of the MPCCs namely, an e-government gateway.
We are aware that the department of Public Works has, over the past year, been engaged in extensive strategic planning with a view to enhancing its service client departments. To this end, it proposes a business model that foresees that the department remains the owner and custodian of government buildings and estates where the acquisition, maintenance and disposal function is on a business-like footing over time.
Accordingly the department will remain responsible for projects involving the acquisition, rehabilitation and maintenance of state-owned projects. Presently, provinces may, in terms of section 104 of the Constitution, pass legislation that is responsible and is reasonably necessary for or incidental to the effective exercise of a power with regard to matters that have been assigned to that province. That is in relation to the properties or fixed assets which belong to those provinces. To date, eight provinces, with the exception of KwaZulu-Natal, have adopted legislation empowering their premiers or designated MECs to sell, exchange, donate or let any property or provincial state land he/she may deem fit to appropriate. In terms of the relevant provincial legislation and financial regulations, any income derived from the disposal of immovable property that vests in a province would accrue to that particular provincial revenue.
We must also commend and appreciate the work the department is doing in terms of women’s empowerment. It has introduced a Women In Construction Programme, where women-owned business enterprises are involved in the renovation or rehabilitation of the correctional services properties, namely, our prisons. We have recently seen one of the women-owned business enterprises being allocated and executing, with excellence, a R179 million tender in the Limpopo province; and many more other women business enterprises are involved in such projects throughout the country.
I also want to say, in conclusion, that the ANC is confident that the significant internal restructuring and transformation the department is undergoing, is done with a view to ensuring it has capacity, competencies and skills to handle its strategic direction. It is in that light that we welcome this budget speech and we move that this Vote be passed. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms G C BARRY (Eastern Cape): Thank you, Madam Chair. Chairperson and hon members of the Council, it is a privilege to be given an opportunity to address this House on the Public Works Budget Vote.
As we know, the Eastern Cape is one of the provinces which has huge structural problems and underdevelopment, presenting enormous socioeconomic development challenges. These include very high levels of poverty and unemployment and huge disparities in access to infrastructure and basic services. Whilst understanding that there are no simple or quick-fix solutions to these complex problems, our province and department have been hard at work trying to make a contribution to the national effort of changing the lives of the people of this country for the better.
In the past few years, we have managed to increase our spending on infrastructure from a meagre two per cent of provincial budget to the current level of nine per cent. As a result of these efforts and the contribution of the private sector, we have achieved real GDP growth much higher than the national average. Coming off a low base as we did, we do realise that we need to redouble our efforts if we are to have the kind of impact that is required.
With the funding that we have available, we have introduced a number of programmes and projects aimed at fast-tracking infrastructure development and alleviating poverty. These include labour-intensive methods in road maintenance and empowering emerging contractors. I must just say that, in the province, roads form part of this department’s function. Our department has initiated a road maintenance programme where households in identified communities are afforded an opportunity to maintain their local roads themselves. In return, the department rewards each household involved in the programme. Each household is given a kilometre of road to maintain, attending to it two days a month and in return receives a stipend of R400 a month. This programme is called Vukuzakhe, which means ``stand up and do it for yourselves’’. Vukuzakhe has two main strategic thrusts, namely, poverty alleviation and road maintenance. From a poverty alleviation point of view, the programme ensures that quite a sizeable number of households have some measure of income every month thus contributing to the broader economic activity. From a road maintenance perspective, the programme assists in halting the rapid deterioration of gravel roads.
Vukuzakhe targets poor households especially woman-headed households and has other social benefits which include the following: The lengthmen are encouraged to establish saving clubs to which they contribute an amount of R40 every month. The lengthmen are trained thus broadening the skills base in each area. The programme instils a sense of pride and ownership in the communities. Lengthmen who have no identity documents are assisted to obtain these. The programme also restores human dignity. Parents involved in this programme are now accorded respect because they are able to provide for their families. Since its inception in September 2002, this programme has absorbed about 1 900 households who are maintaining 152 roads throughout the province. In other words, 1 900 households are guaranteed R400 every month. The programme started with a budget of R7 million in the last financial year, and we have now doubled it to R14 million in this current financial year, so that we are able to sustain the programme and also to extend it to absorb more households.
Regarding the construction industry, in making a contribution to black economic empowerment, under this programme we have been engaged in a number of initiatives. These include the emerging contractor development programme. This programme commenced with the registration of emerging contractors into a common data bank. We then focused on training programmes for these contractors in a bid to help them to become better contractors. To date, we have trained 247 contractors of which 60 women have received exclusive training on housebuilding. All of these contractors have been awarded certificates. However, they will now have to go through the SETA recognition of prior knowledge programme for full qualification. In providing this training, we have been partnering with SETA and the Department of Labour.
Madam Chair, under our road construction programme, we are also embarking on looking at area-wide maintenance agreement projects which will be established on community-based principles that are labour-intensive. We are also looking at similar projects when it comes to building maintenance.
The problem in the Eastern Cape is huge. The problem is also complex. There are no simple answers. However, with determination and commitment, we will succeed. Our partnership, therefore, with our national counterpart and national Government is key in tackling these challenges and I am happy to report that this partnership is alive and well. With these few words, I want to confirm the support of our province for this Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S M A MALEBO (Free State): Chairperson, hon members, my congratulations go to the Minister on the presentation of a comprehensive budget. I rise today in support of the budget. The role of Public Works has undergone transformation like so many things in our lives today. Its role in the past was one of providing economically unsustainable jobs that had more of a negative impact on service delivery and on the fiscus. This was because Public Works had to provide employment, especially for the unskilled, and in most cases, less-than-productive people. Our problem of high personnel costs in comparison to that in the developmental budget can be traced to this particular problem today.
However, today, Public Works’ role is a significant one for a developmental state such as ours. Its role is to provide physical social infrastructure like hospitals, schools, clinics, halls, theatres, etc, and to maintain them. This needs to be done in the context of enhancing the civil construction industry and property markets. This department has a key role in that, while providing the requisite infrastructure, it must provide long and short-term jobs. It must have intervention measures to relieve the harsh effects of poverty while the total budget is aimed at the total eradication of poverty.
Public Works must enhance the construction industry and the property market in building an economy that creates jobs and growth. It is said that for every R1 spent in this sector, it has an estimated ripple effect of three times further down in the economy. Only roads have a better ripple effect of one to six. After providing the building, civil construction has the potential of creating longer, sustainable jobs and enhancing the property market, as we have said.
Therefore, we need to redouble our efforts within this sector. Better spending patterns on budget allocation has meant a better economic performance by our province. This minimal growth is expected to continue over the next four years, if spending involving the public and the private sector continues in the same way.
A quick review of the year 2003 will be like this - very briefly: Regarding physical infrastructure, 20 social amenities to the value of R37 million were constructed, and they were completed in the same year. These included hospitals, clinics and the renovation and refurbishment of various state buildings. We were able to rebuild 14 schools. Eight new schools were built and 14 others received additional classrooms.
As far as the Letsema campaign is concerned, this campaign was conducted successfully. The province provided the material whilst the communities provided labour. This has enabled us to design a new project proposal of reducing the maintenance backlog by employing the same experience gathered during the Letsema campaign at various schools and various social amenities.
Most of the construction work on the project that I have referred to was done by black emerging contractors. In the new year, no less than 60% of all procurement, especially in construction, will be set aside for black economic empowerment, with special emphasis on women contractors. Women who will be targeted are those who have undergone training in the last financial year.
Job creation and provisioning remain a key challenge for all of us. In the past year, for each construction project, there was a contractual obligation on the part of the contractor not only to employ a specific number of locals, but a percentage was set aside for black emerging contractors for subcontracting and training.
It is in this context that our role as a job provider has changed. We ask for jobs that are sustainable and entail training for skills upgrading. In this way, we are convinced that we are on the road to the creation of sustainable long-term jobs that reduce poverty and unemployment.
For the new financial year, we are expected now to do even more, and do it with precision that will have an impact at all levels of our society. Briefly, these are the few of the projects that we have committed ourselves to. Firstly, on poverty alleviation, R10 million has been set aside for temporary jobs for rural areas as part of the Extended Community-Based Public Works Programme. Secondly, it is estimated that construction workers will earn close to R100 million on wages in various projects that will be conducted in the province. Thirdly, approximately 3 000 jobs will be created from a number of projects that we will be pursuing. The fourth point is that R160 million worth of construction projects will be awarded to black-owned construction companies and women-owned companies. Fifthly, a further R800 000 has been set aside for further training on tendering, especially for the women and youth.
With regard to projects, education projects are meant for the enhancement of conducive conditions for learning and teaching. This year we will build 12 new schools and seven schools will receive additional classrooms. In terms of the Department of Health’s projects that are meant for the support and conducive environment for the healthcare delivery system, we will build two new hospitals, and six other hospitals will be refurbished and renovated, while seven clinics will be built in various districts.
As far as tourism is concerned, in order to support that sector in its growth, five resorts that are owned by the province will be refurbished and others would be provided with new chalets. So, now you don’t have to drive fast through the Free State, because we are making some provision for you. With regard to social development, the projects that we will be attending to to render care and rehabilitation will include a monument or place of safety and various regional offices.
In conclusion, in order to support urban renewal, it has been decided that all provincial departments and district offices must be accommodated in the CBD areas. This is on condition that the new building or the building to be acquired will have a face lift, and will be improved. This is a meagre investment. We hope that it will attract big business back to the old CBD. We hope that, in this way, our CBDs can be revived to become real economic hubs full of activities and services. Ke lebohile. [I thank you.] [Applause.]
Mr J THIBEDI (North West): Hon Chairperson and delegates, I also rise to congratulate the Minister and support this budget debate on behalf of the North West province.
I wish to indicate that in terms of the North West province, our maintenance and repair budget for the 2003-04 financial year stands at R20 627 million. This budget excludes the maintenance for education and health facilities whose budgets are kept by those client departments. Our maintenance activities are divided into the following activities: These are renovations, preventative maintenance and emergency maintenance. Major renovations exceeding R500 000 are planned and documented at head office level. They are executed at regional level. The planning is done at head office level.
Concerning the Expanded Public Works Programme, the principle of this programme is followed in the execution of all our maintenance projects except for a few which require specialists. These are the maintenance of electronic and sophisticated equipment such as lifts, boilers, major air conditioning systems, cooling installations and so on. The SMMEs are used extensively for maintenance work requiring carpentry, bricklaying, plumbing and painting skills. Our construction contracts specify that contractors must use local labour for all unskilled and semiskilled work.
Our main focus is on the use of labour-intensive technologies and community involvement, which we believe is crucial to ensure that all participants receive on-the-job related training in the construction industry and are certificated after each and every aspect of training that has been completed. We are targeting the youth, women and the disabled. I must hasten to add that we have not done very much as far as the disabled section of our population is concerned.
Our asset register for the province has been finalised and is available. This is in electronic format and could thus easily be included in any other database. It is only through the help of such an asset register that it will be possible to devise a scientifically based comprehensive management and maintenance strategy system which, we believe, will assist us a great deal, especially when we deal with matters of budgeting.
For our strategic objective as a department for 2003-04 and 2005-06 the following remain critical: providing professional and technical services to the two main client departments, which are health and education, as well as other departments; training staff in the application of the requirements of the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act; identifying and assessing risks that may adversely impact on the capital development programme; working in consultation with identified financial institutions such as ABSA, Khula, ACFC, Standard Bank and FNB to provide financial support to emerging contractors; reviewing Service Level Agreements in accordance with bi-lateral agreements between the department and the two main clients departments; and to maintain regular contact with these departments.
We believe that the Extended Public Works Programme is the cornerstone for development and that it is imperative for pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Without it, there is little chance of success.
In terms of the land disposal policy strategy, the North West Land Administration Act is in place and all policy is centred around this Act. The department is identifying and analysing all unused and underutilised land. The following options for disposal have been identified: offering them to client departments for possible use; a transfer to a district or local authority; renting to a third party; and selling in the open market. This is in line with what the Minister said. By identifying this unused and underutilised land, we will be able to secure land for community development centres.
In terms of integrated service delivery, we are seriously working on mechanisms to integrate our work as a department with that of local municipalities, especially on integrating our budget on infrastructure with the IDPs. A number of meetings in this regard have been held with a number of municipalities. Although the focus was mainly on road services, we believe that we are laying a foundation for integrated service delivery on all fronts.
We have also identified our traditional leaders as important stakeholders. We have a programme, which is supported by the entire executive of the North West, to build offices for traditional leaders and to renovate dilapidated offices for tribal offices. We have already opened one or two of those offices in one of our villages. Through this integration and working together, we will be able to realise the objective of pushing back the frontiers of poverty.
To conclude, if one looks at the visible impact of our programme and the school building programme, this covers the construction of 59 schools throughout the province in this financial year. The total value of contracts awarded is R150 million. Out of this, R142 million has been for affirmable business enterprises and the remaining R8 million is awarded to nonaffirmable business enterprises.
The clinic building programme covers the construction of 69 clinics throughout the province. In terms of planning, full documentation has been completed. Out of this number, the invitation for tenders for 28 clinics has been processed. This constitutes the first phase valued at R48 million. I must quickly add that a total of R30 million of this phase has been awarded to affirmable business enterprises. A further R4,2 million has been awarded to women. Furthermore, I must also indicate, in conclusion, that we held a very important summit for women in construction. Out of that summit important resolutions were taken in terms on how we should take forward this process of involving women in construction.
Finally, we held a summit for all contractors - small, medium and big ones
- with consultants in the province to try to get a sense of what we could do in an integrated fashion to speed up the process of service delivery. With those few words, I wish to say that we support the Minister. [Applause.]
Mr J S MABONA (Mpumalanga): Madam Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister for Public Works, colleagues from the different provinces here today, and hon members, thank you very much for listening to my small speech of what it is we are doing in Mpumalanga. Normally, we do not talk too much about Mpumalanga, we work. [Laughter.] Normally!
When newspapers write negative things, we ignore them and work. Because we know and believe that of those of our people who suffered, most of them do not even read newspapers nor do they care about what is said. They just want to see what the Government that they voted into power is doing for them. Hence, in Mpumalanga, we go to communities each and every two weeks. We call it an outreach programme. We really tell our people the truth. If you write lies, they look at you and say: ``No, that’s fine.’’ And they go and vote for the party they think will deliver again.
I just want to be precise in my speech. The public works department in Mpumalanga, with the small budget that it has, has three categories. Those three categories are divided into further categories. These are property holdings and asset management, and the other one is public works. Another one is the Community-Based Public Works Programme. I just want to make a few references to what we are doing with regard to all these categories.
Regarding property holdings and asset management, verification of government properties progressed very well in our government buildings. Government employees are also paying rentals for government property. We are trying to teach our people there is nothing for mahala. Improved property management has made a significant impact on the revenue collection.
Amongst others, the property and facility unit co-ordinate the sale of surplus government houses and improves payment of rental for government houses. Twenty-seven deeds of sale to the value of R2 974 000 have been signed. The unit is also addressing the issue of arrear rentals on government houses. Fourteen stop orders for rentals have been signed of which R105 000 has been collected. These are just a few things that show that we are not only put back, we also get back. What do we do with the money that comes back? Obviously it goes back into the fiscus and we plough it back into the communities.
One of the problems that we have, that we are sometimes frustrated about is that some of the employees think that you can give them parking for free and also give them houses and cars for free. We demonstrate that we act as a business in Mpumalanga.
When you come to Public Works, the mandate for the Chief Directorate: Maintenance is to do preventative maintenance on our roads and government building infrastructure, thus improving their life span. The maintenance done includes heavy rehabilitation of the province’s regional roads network by providing substance drainage, patching, cleaning of culverts and side drains, erection of guard-rails and road signs, weed control and grass cutting off road shoulders, reshaping and grading of road shoulders as well as fog spray and road markings. However, the allocated budget allowed to fulfil this mandate is far from sufficient and the department was severely challenged by limited resources.
All of the facts above relate to service delivery. In the Gert Sibande region, for instance, R15 million was spent on routine maintenance, which includes the erection and repair to guard-rails. An amount of R22,1 million was spent in the Nkangala region to erect road signs; road markings and patching along acquired half of the amount mentioned.
The maintenance unit also spent R805 000 on the renovation of the Kwamhlanga government complex. The sum of R1,8 million was spent on the renovation of the Piet Koornhof building in Witbank. Twenty-five government houses in Middelburg, 11 in Delmas and six in Dr J S Moroka as well as 20 prefabricated houses at Standerton, Amersfoort and Piet Retief were renovated at a cost of more than R1,7 million.
In order to address the backlog in building and road maintenance, the department will appoint more contractors, particularly historically disadvantaged individuals, and outsource projects as well as improve maintenance inspection and quality control on work done. There will also be a drive to improve the productivity and develop the capacity of our regional workforce.
During the 2003-04 financial year, seven of the department’s district offices will be renovated at a total cost of R8,4 million. We will also continue with the renovation of a further 30 prefabricated government houses in Standerton at an estimated cost of R1,2 million. Renovations at the Kwamhlanga government complex will continue and a further R3,4 million will be spent there. The department also intends to continue to fulfil its function as a municipal manager at Pilgrims Rest by upgrading the town sewer system plant at a cost of R1,5 million.
In the Gert Sibande region, the road between Ermelo and Oshoek, which is P81/4, will be marked and the Greylingstad to Leeuwspruit Road will be selectively regravelled and reshaped. The Carolina/Wharburton Road will also receive attention in terms of upgrading. In the Nkangala region, R23 million will be spent on routine road maintenance, and in the Ehlanzeni region R11 million will be spent on road patching, road marking, grass and bush cutting, blending of gravel roads and the rehabilitation and regravelling of provincial roads. In all these projects, 90% of the people who are involved are women contractors. I must also emphasise that we have serious problems with financing these women contractors, but as a committed government we are dealing with this problem by making sure that people are paid on time, and making sure that the guarantees for these contractors are signed through our MECs. The reason for this is because, when these women get contracts and they go to the commercial bank, they actually do not finance them because they want guarantees from the people who want guarantees. All of us in South Africa know that black people, especially women, do not have these guarantees.
Regarding the Community-Based Public Works Programme, this is a very interesting subject in Mpumalanga. Mpumalanga successfully completed six Community-Based Public Works Programme cluster projects in poverty-stricken areas of our province and we are in the process of completing seven additional projects. These projects are amongst the province’s flagship poverty alleviation and job creation projects. As one of this province’s main vehicles of job creation, the department is taking its Community-Based Public Works Programme extremely seriously. In the past financial year, we have spent more than R14 million on this project in the poverty pockets of our province. This is nearly double the budget spent on the Community-Based Public Works Programme in 2001-02. In 2003-04, we would like to spend another R16,5 million on seven cluster projects identified by communities in the Integrated Development Plan of the three district municipalities.
However, what is significant about this is not only that this department is putting more resources into job creation but that a number of job opportunities and economic opportunities are also increasing. In 2001-02 … [Time expired.]
Dr P J C NEL: Thank you, Madam Chair. [Interjections.] Madam Chair, by correcting some of the mistakes from the past, the department has demonstrated, in the past financial year, that it now has the capacity to spend its allocated budget. Moving from severe underspending in the past, the department has overspent by plus-minus R40 million in the previous year. According to the IFR document, provincial capital expenditure grew from R6,4 billion in 1999- 2000 financial year to R13,4 billion in the previous financial year.
It is quite clear that through experience and the implementing of far- reaching budget reforms, the national department as well as the provincial departments have succeeded in improving their expenditure management skills. The challenge now is to translate financial management gains into service delivery. It is, however, impossible to achieve that without adequate funding.
According to the department, its budgetary allocation for the current financial year is totally inadequate to fund the department’s critical programmes. The total amount requested was R5 billion and the proposed allocation is R4,47 billion. What is most disturbing is the shortfall of R180 million in the amount allocated for payment of leases and R300 million for the payment of rates, taxes, municipal services and maintenance. Failure to honour these commitments can result in departments being evicted from the offices they occupy.
Voorsitter, dit blyk ook uit ‘n skriftelike antwoord van die Minister van Provinsiale en Plaaslike Regering dat ‘n hele aantal departemente, nasionaal asook provinsiaal, aan talle munisipaliteite geld skuld, geld wat vir hierdie munisipaliteite lewensnoodsaaklik is om dienste te lewer. (Translation of Afrkaans paragraph follows.)
(Chairperson, it also appears from a written reply from the Minister of Provincial and Local Government that quite a number of departments, nationally as well as provincially, owe money to numerous municipalities, money which is absolutely essential for these municipalities to deliver services.]
Madam Chair, the critical capital budget shortfall for the current financial year in the Free State is estimated to be R216 million. Taking into account that the backlog in works infrastructure alone at the moment is R1,25 billion, it is quite clear that this will have a devastating impact on the existing infrastructure.
Voorsitter, ek was egter aangenaam verras om vandag van die agb Minister te verneem dat daar uiteindelik fondse vir die konstruksie van ‘n polisiekantoor in Thabong beskikbaar gestel is, want ek kon dit nie in die bouprogram van die departement bespeur nie. Ek is egter verbaas, Voorsitter, om te sien dat die konstruksie van die Bronville-polisiekantoor nog nie op die lys verskyn nie. Dít nadat die agb Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit my skriftelik in kennis gestel het dat genoemde polisiekantoor hoog op die prioriteitslys is.
Die polisie in Bronville bedien vir die afgelope 31 jaar ‘n gemeenskap van 250 000 mense uit ‘n klein huisie. Voorsitter, ek is dankbaar om te sien dat die bedrag van R145 miljoen toegewys is vir kuns en kultuur, waaronder historiese gebou ressorteer. Die Vrystaat het egter net R62 000 gekry, wat geheel en al ontoereikend is.
Voorsitter, die instandhouding van hierdie geboue is baie duur, soos dit duidelik blyk uit die glanstydskrif, At Your Service, van die Departement van Werke. As ‘n mens egter in genoemde tydskrif kyk na die wonderlike resultate wat bereik is by byvoorbeeld die Griekwalandse Hooggeregshof in Barkley-Wes en die ou landdroskantore in Kimberley, dan is dit oor en oor die moeite werd. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, I was, however, pleasantly surprised to be informed by the hon Minister today that funds have at last been made available for the construction of a police station in Thabong, because I could not find it in the building programme of the department. However, I am surprised, Chairperson, to see that the construction of the Bronville police station does not yet appear on the list. What is more, this is after the Minister of Safety and Security informed me in writing that the said police station was high on the priority list.
The police in Bronville have been serving a community of 250 000 people from a small house for the past 31 years. Chairperson, I am grateful to see that an amount of R145 million has been allocated for arts and culture, under which historic buildings fall. However, the Free State received only R62 000, which is totally inadequate.
Chairperson, the maintenance of these buildings is very expensive, as is clear from an article in the glossy magazine, At Your Service, of the Department of Works. However, if one looks in the said magazine at the wonderful results achieved, for example, at the Griqualand Supreme Court at Barkley West and the old magistrate’s court in Kimberley, then it is more than worthwhile.]
Cultural tourism is the fastest growing component of the tourism industry worldwide. Beautiful scenery exists everywhere but the uniqueness inherent in the built heritage of a country is what draws visitors to specific places. The generation of more money to repair and maintain these buildings is important.
Die Kaapse Vennootskap is ‘n baie goeie voorbeeld van hoe om binne ‘n kort tydperk miljoene rand se beleggings te lok en werkgeleenthede te skep deur die stedelike vernuwing waarvan die restourasie van geboue ‘n belangrike komponent uitmaak. (Translation of Afrkaans paragraph follows.)
[The Cape Partnership is a very good example of how to attract millions of rands of investments and create job opportunities in a short period by means of the urban renewal of which the restoration of buildings forms an important component.]
Restoration and maintenance projects of these buildings can be a golden opportunity to create jobs and empower local people to perform specialised skills.
I want to conclude with the closing remark made by the department in their budget preview document. I quote:
To this end, the department appeals to the committee to provide whatever support it has to ensure that additional funding is received as indeed the cutback on expenditure is not a realistic solution to the problem.
As a member of the committee, I would like to request the hon Minister of Finance to take note of this cry for help. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Deputy Chairperson, the hon the Minister, hon MECs responsible for public works and hon members, in my supporting role to the Minister of Public Works, I exercise oversight over prestige Government accommodation. This includes the Union Buildings which house the Presidency and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Brynterion Estate, which is an official residential complex that houses our President and Deputy President, Ministers and Deputy Ministers in Pretoria, the parliamentary precincts, Groote Schuur, Walmer Estate and other estates as well as the parliamentary villages in Cape Town. This indeed is our nation’s family silver which should, at all times, be properly managed so that we can preserve and enhance its worth for posterity.
From time to time, the Minister assigns other tasks to me over and above my primary ones, as a manifestation of the good teamwork which she has cultivated in the Ministry and department. I will accordingly be reporting on some of these tasks during the course of my address.
Under prestige accommodation, a total of R43,2 million was spent on prestige accommodation last year and, for the current financial year, R98 million has been budgeted. This will enable us to properly manage this portfolio through measures such as the Facilities Management Contract. Since 1 May this year, WSP Sidibene Facilities Management (Pty) Ltd, who won this tender for R82,2 million over two years in Cape Town, has been in full operation. This is an international company that has formed a joint venture with local companies incorporating set socioeconomic objectives. This joint venture is made up as follows: WSP Facilities Management SA (Pty) Ltd together with ACG Architects and Development Planners; GVK Siyazama Building Contractors Cape (Pty) Ltd, Ubunye Engineering Services (Pty) Ltd; and Nibiru Construction and Project Management with Premier Business Capital (Pty) Ltd.
They are working at prestige office and housing accommodation including the parliamentary precinct, VIP houses and parliamentary villages. The objective is to provide the expected day-to-day services and to attend to the backlog in maintenance. At present, the priority list on the maintenance backlog is being finalised. The mammoth task of rectifying the backlog is anticipated to start within a few weeks.
The scope of work on this Facilities Management Contract includes managing and controlling the provision of services, performance monitoring and evaluation of facilities and service delivery, establishment of a call centre, establishment of a State Property Asset Management and Information System, and management of all types of capital and maintenance. Also included are the requirements in terms of the presidential health plan.
In terms of the contract, and after consultation with the SA Police Service, WSP’s personnel has been security-cleared in the same manner that all the Department of Public Work’s employees are subjected to. This in effect means that not only will they be checked by SAPS but also by the National Intelligence Agency.
Then I come to the project which deals with the accessibility of these buildings and premises to people with disabilities. Public Works has also, in the beginning of 2003, commenced with the project to upgrade existing facilities in Parliament with the aim of making the complex more accessible to people with disabilities. The objectives of the project are: the provision of accessible ablution facilities for people with disabilities on every floor and a fair distribution of such facilities across genders. This process includes the simultaneous renovation of all existing facilities.
Secondly, it includes the improvement of access between and within the buildings with the provision of external wheelchair routes and ramps; improved lighting in public areas; improved signage and the modification of elevators to enable their operation by people with disabilities; and alterations to existing debating chambers such as the ones that we see here which have produced a splendid Chamber indeed; and dining and conference rooms in order to accommodate those who use wheelchairs. The project is scheduled to run over a 12 month period and is expected to be completed by January next year. The value of the contract is small at R5 million.
As far as space planning and utilisation within the parliamentary precinct is concerned, this is one more literally pressing issue Public Works is engaged in. Since 1994, the number of people working here has increased by more than 30% and little attention has, however, been paid to the provision of office space, parking space and other things. In accordance with Parliament’s wish, the department is taking a holistic approach to the requirements of space, and the project will include 120 Plein Street as well as considering all offsite functional units for accommodation on site.
The assignment includes investigating and must, in six month’s time, provide us with a status quo report in respect of office accommodation, committee rooms and boardrooms, auditoriums, chambers, vehicle parking, etc. The SA Heritage Agency’s approval will be obtained should any alterations or extensions become necessary to buildings with heritage status.
The crime rate at the parliamentary villages, mainly in Acacia Park, as hon members would know, is of unacceptable proportions and we, together with the Police, are working seriously on solutions. At least 10 arrests have been made in the preceding 12 months, the outcome of which we are still awaiting.
Alarm systems have been installed at all the residences during 2002 and in addition further security measures are being introduced and considered. These include the physical search of all incoming and outgoing vehicles at the gates and the investigation of the introduction of an electronic access control system, although major resistance to this measure has been expressed in the past by residents’ committees. We are looking into the installation of burglar bars at all residences and requesting the SAPS to increase the number of VIP protection staff to ensure regular foot patrols. We are also conducting an occupancy audit at all three parliamentary villages in order to compare the results to the information which was originally supplied by members and sessional officials when they made application for accommodation.
These additional measures will increase the cost of security in Acacia Park from the existing R1,5 million to an estimated R4 million. For the remainder, the parliamentary villages will be taken care of under the Facilities Management Contract I spoke about. I hope that hon members have already experienced an improvement in the service delivery both through the call centre and in the overall appearance of the parks.
Our departmental activities regarding fraud prevention continues. We have found the enticing of officials to collaborate with contractors in fraudulent conduct for obviously personal financial gain to be the main occurrence. At present, 11 disciplinary cases and 11 criminal cases are being dealt with. The strengthening of our implementation of findings through the human resource section is a challenge that we are aware of.
I am proud to report that on the cholera infrastructure support programme, we have achieved 100% expenditure on almost R2 million that was allocated in 2002-03 for building 1 395 toilets and protecting numerous springs from contamination in order to prevent the spread of cholera.
The socieconomic achievements include 40% of the project budget which went to community labour, 300 people got jobs of whom 58% were women and 30% youth and 9% people with disabilities. This far exceeds our minimum targets in procurement.
The HIV/Aids infrastructure support programme also achieved an overall expenditure of 95% on just over R5 million allocated in the past financial year. This programme extended over four provinces. Both Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal had a 100% expenditure whereas Limpopo is experiencing some delay and the Free State had a saving which has subsequently been used to procure tools for the project site.
Another major policy development we are currently dealing with that affects all aspects of Government is the Government-wide Immovable Asset Management Framework. The key purpose of this framework is to establish a set of minimum norms and standards in respect of the management of such immovable assets on a Government-wide basis. This will mean that the national, provincial and local government will all work on the same basis of increasing efficiency and that the taxpayer will know exactly how this large asset and economic driver is managed by the state. Our plan is to have such a policy document translated into legislation in due course.
In conclusion, I trust that hon members will support us in this important work to ensure that our Government properties are indeed taken care of in such a fashion that we can leave our children a better world than the one we inherited. [Applause.]
Ms D R TSOTETSI (Gauteng): Chairperson, I am bringing to the House the MEC’s briefing for the NCOP Budget Vote on Public Works. I say it is a briefing because Gauteng has done so much that if I were to get to all the details, I would have to be allocated at least 30 minutes. This input has considered the strategic directives given by the President in his address to the National Assembly. We have also considered Premier Shilowa’s opening address to the Gauteng provincial legislature on 24 February 2003. Both of these inputs focused on, among other issues, infrastructure development and job creation, especially since this will benefit our marginalised communities.
In order to push back the frontiers of poverty and create jobs, that is, to ensure poverty alleviation and job creation through infrastructure delivery, we have the Zivuseni Programme. The premier initiated the Zivuseni Poverty Alleviation Programme during the 2002-03 financial year. The launch of Zivuseni was meant to and will continue to focus on those sections of our communities so impoverished that freedom and democracy to them cannot appear in any form except in the form of bread.
Whilst Zivuseni projects are meant to improve the physical conditions of public facilities used to deliver services to the public, it simultaneously addresses poverty alleviation and the creation of short-term jobs. A total of 6 731 unemployed people obtained short-term employment in the Zivuseni projects during the 2002-03 financial year.
To date, a total of 115 projects comprising building and renovation of schools, clinics and hospitals and waste management projects were implemented. Out of the 6 731 beneficiaries, a total of 60% are women and 40% youth; of these, people with disabilities account for a negligible 0,08%, mainly due to the physical demands of the work in the majority of the Zivuseni projects. A total of 1 295 people received accredited life skills and technical training through funding from the Department of Labour. Through the contractors used on the Zivuseni projects, we reached a target of 80% black economic empowerment participation during the 2002-03 financial year. Our target for the current financial year is 95% participation by BEE contractors.
A target of 25 000 beneficiaries - 50% women, 25% youth and 1% to 3% being people with disabilities - has been set for the 2003-04 financial year. This will be achieved through, among other things, the implementation of the adjusted and refined Zivuseni Programme. Zivuseni’s budget will be increased from R70 million to R150 million during the 2003-04 financial year with a minimum target of 25 000 beneficiaries. A link-up with various infrastructure programmes of local and provincial government will be pursued in order to maximise the developmental impact and to increase participation opportunities for the beneficiaries registered on the Zivuseni database.
The department considers Public Works as among the main drivers of job creation, fighting poverty and developing community infrastructure. Our Community-based Public Works Programme, Zivuseni, Potlaka projects, capital works, maintenance and professional services programmes, among other things, are focused on systematically addressing these imperatives.
Creating jobs through infrastructure delivery again, job creation and BEE as intimated before, are the bedrock of most of our capital works projects. Capital expenditure, labour maximation programmes, contractor development programme, our labour-intensive programme and the strategic works projects guide the execution of most of our capital works, both for other government departments as well as for our department’s infrastructure development initiatives including the development of our road infrastructure. The Capex and Labmax programmes are aimed at increasing the labour content of all our capital works projects. An average of 35% labour content has thus far been maintained for all our programmes. This approach has yielded 32 548 jobs during the 2002-03 financial year at a total cost of R1,315 billion, which includes capital expenditure for client departments. The department spent R960 million on the improvement of infrastructure.
Regarding the labour-intensive programme for Public Works, with a budget of R30 million, our LIP has created 1 502 jobs, a 30% increase compared to the previous year. The socioeconomic impact analysis that was conducted for our LIP shows that 8 900 people benefited from the jobs created through this LIP system.
Our target for 2003-04 is to obtain between 45% to 55% labour content. Through this, we intend to create an additional 2 000 jobs from the same level of expenditure. This will be achieved through changes to technology and documentation of projects as well as accelerating construction processes.
As regards LIP for roads, in the roads construction area, most of the department’s funding for transport infrastructure is spent on road rehabilitation and maintenance. A significant portion is also focused on new projects aimed at improving accessibility and economic development in previously neglected areas. Through these various construction and maintenance contracts, we were able to create 3 100 jobs in the last financial year.
The department makes an annual allocation of funds for projects to enhance labour-based construction. These projects are transport-related and situated in previously disadvantaged areas. It is intended that the projects will make a contribution to the upliftment of the local people through job creation.
Some of the main issues addressed by the project include: that that it should be a prerequisite; the creation of work for the community in the vicinity of the project should be within walking distance thereof the provision of all-weather streets, thus concentrating on proper drainage, that will only be able to carry low-traffic volumes; or the construction of other transport-related infrastructure, eg bus bays and shelter, bicycle and pedestrian paths.
The projects must entail labour-based construction or rehabilitation methods. Emerging contractors are to be used under the supervision of established contractors. The department will provide funding for these projects once the projects have been approved and prioritised.
Projects undertaken include, among others, Key 45 Golden Highway in the Vaal between Sebokeng and Evaton to the amount of R45 million that went to subcontractors and, with the R23 Kwaduduza, R4 million went to three subcontractors. In Coronationville, an amount of R2,5 million went to 34 subcontractors. The department’s contributions in the empowerment of SMMEs has not been insignificant. An amount of R38,5 million was expended directly on SMMEs and local contractors.
In terms of the broad job creation strategy, although the department has gradually been expanding LIP, it was nevertheless felt that we needed to leapfrog and broaden LIP across the department and other departments accordingly. The executive council has recently approved the framework policy and strategy for the implementation of the total labour-intensive approach to the whole of the provincial government in this regard. The premier will announce further developments in this regard.
In concluding this matter, I wish to say that the key strategic objective of the Gauteng provincial government of fighting poverty and creating jobs is indeed achievable through the total labour approach strategy and framework. The province’s multipronged strategy along the job creation continuum, starting with Zivuseni through labour intensity to Blue IQ, will go a long way in reducing unemployment in Gauteng. When it comes to BEE and SMME development that is executed through procurement, the department has actively promoted BEE, small contractor development and gender equality by instituting special projects in this regard, changing our standard contract documentation to reflect these priorities and identifying the specific areas where opportunities to reach these goals can be created. These objectives have also been critical in the granting of contracts to consultants, contractors and suppliers. Contractors and suppliers are appointed through the three departmental acquisition councils via a tendering process, whilst consultants are appointed in the main from the preapproved consultants’ rosters.
The total amount of money spent by the whole province on capital works was R1,3 billion in the last financial year. Of this R1,3 billion, the department was responsible for R1,105 billion as a client and implementing agent. The DACs gave out 188 tenders to contractors for both roads and building works to the value of R560 million. The department’s contribution towards BEE was as follows: Seventy-five of the contracts went to historically disadvantaged individual-owned SMMEs to the value of 101 million; 13 went to non-HDI-owned SMMEs to the value of R14 million; 30 of the contractors were allocated to large HDI-owned enterprises to the value of R241 million, whilst 70 contracts were given to large non-HID-owned companies to the value of R203 million. Contractor development programme initiated in 1996-97 … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs F X GAZA (KwaZulu-Natal): I thought I was in a different House. It looks like all these Houses are the same. Madam Chair … Excuse me, sir!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J MAHLANGU): I am not yet both.
Mrs F X GAZA: I am very sorry. I would take exception if it was done to me too. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, members of the NCOP, Minister, my deputy and all my colleagues who have come from all the different provinces, it is with enormous pride that I speak on this budget which we in KwaZulu-Natal support. Reading through it and seeing how far South Africa has come in the international community fills us with the realisation that we have become an exemplary nation.
Our long walk has been hard but, truly, we have learnt great things. It is indeed a pity that people who have not taken stock of the contribution that this department seems to be making for the country are very shallow in their criticism. There is enough evidence in KwaZulu-Natal to illustrate the degree to which this department has thrown its weight behind making the lives of our people better. We congratulate the national Department of Public Works for spending almost 100% of its capital budget as well as R557 000 000 of its maintenance budget. This shows the position, a very positive move, a paradigm shift that, instead of hoarding money, it needs to be spent for the people it is meant for, and this department has illustrated that very well.
This department is commended for the galloping speed with which they have focused on the Repair and Maintenance Programme. In the past, we have suffered, schools have suffered, government offices have been dilapidated, but with this department and the way it pushes through, and the way it builds all its needs on what the people need, we have seen quite a lot of preparation go to the communities to alleviate the suffering of the people; not only at provincial level, but also at local level. They are there to be seen to be doing the work which they have committed themselves to doing, and KZN is very proud of them.
I do not want to be singing the praises of the Minister here, but one has to tell it as it is. They are always visible in KZN. [Interjections.] Don’t tamper with my Sunday-school manners. Next to Empangeni and Durban- Westville, we have a showcase - not that I am necessarily saying that jails should be beautiful because it could send a different message - but regarding what the Minister said when she was talking about how much they support Correctional Services, we can illustrate that Empangeni and Durban- Westville were not catered for.
I shall not go to figures as the Minister has already illustrated this when she was handling this aspect. Coming to the Community-Based Public Works Programme, I am very happy to report that the women and the youth, to count but a few, are very involved in this. There is Zakheleni with 25 women and 10 men; Siphathiseni with 30 women and 12 men; and Ekukhuphukeni with 100 women and 50 men who are busy on construction. This really gives us a lot of impetus in terms of boasting about how the youth, women and men are involved in this province.
In terms of the involvement in the community-based projects, in KZN we have not forgotten the commitment which we made to fighting HIV/Aids. In all these structures where we have got hospices, you will find women going there, tilling the soil, assisting and working under the Department of Public Works. We had quite a lot of assistance because there are places where we do not have enough water. In conclusion, I must say we are quite happy to note that people are now beginning to see the Department of Public Works in the true perspective that it needs to be seen in. We also commend them for not only concentrating on the department but also building up structures with other departments to make work quite easy for our communities. KwaZulu-Natal supports this budget. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: (Mr M J MAHLANGU) Please, no dialogue in the House. It’s a debate. [Laughter.] Minister, a great expectation has been created. To you and your Deputy Minister, we would like to see you often in our constituencies. I do not know whether you will be able to get to all the constituencies. [Laughter.]
Nksz B N DLULANE: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, Mphathiswa, Sekela-Mphathiswa, baphathiswa bamaphondo kunye nabameli abahloniphekileyo, ndisukuma namhlanje ndixhasa le nkqubo esikuyo esize kuyandlalelwa ngabaphathiswa. Sixhasa siyi-ANC. Kambe xa ndiqala kuwe Sekela-Mphathiswa, uthethile kamnandi kodwa andikuva uthetha ngentlungu yamalungu la alapha kwezi zindlu zombini. Kukho izikorokoro zeebhasi apha, oye wena ukhuphele zona intlawulo kwimali owabelwe yona kuhlahlo lwabiwo-mali, ukuze zikhwele abahlonitshwa aba. Kambe imeko yazo imbi kakhulu. Siyayivuyela le yezindlu apho sihlala khona. Noko ziyaphucuka kancinci kuba luyaqhubeka uqwalaselo kuphumezo lomsebenzi ofanelele kukwenziwa (oversight happens). Yijonge le yezi zikorokoro ke, Mhlekazi.
Phaya kwinkokeli esuka kwiPhondo eliseMntla Ntshona, siyayivuyela into yokuthi nathi phesheya kweMpuma Koloni siyiyo i-ANC sixhamlile ngokwakhiwa kwamabhotwe kwiiprojekti zakho ezimbaxa. Kamva nje uSekela-Mongameli woRhulumente okhokelayo, nokwanguSekela Mongameli we-ANC, uTat’ uZuma, uzivulile ezi projekti kumakomkhulu amabini. Loo nto ifezekisa iminqweno ye- ANC yokuba amakhosi mawanikwe isidima kuba aziinkokeli zaba bantu bathi basivotele, sibe kule ndawo. Kuqhum’ uthuli bayagqugquza oogandaganda phaya eNyandeni naseQamata. Msinya niza kube nithe bhazalala nisinga apho. Naphaya komkhulu kwaDalindyebo sinijongile. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms B N DLULANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon MECs and delegates, I rise here today in support of the programme that the hon Ministers have presented to us. We support it as the ANC.
Hon Minister, if I may start with you, you have talked well but I do not hear you talking about the pain of the Members in these two Houses. There is a bus service for hon Members whose buses are in a very bad condition and for which payment is made from the funds allocated for you in your budget. We are grateful for the houses we live in. Their condition is improving ever so slightly because there is continuous oversight. I would like you, hon Minister, to carefully look at the issue of these buses.
To the leader that comes from the North-West province, we are grateful for we, as the ANC in the Eastern Cape have also benefited from the building of mansions through your initiated multiprojects. Recently the Deputy President, who is also the Deputy President of the ANC, Mr Zuma, launched these projects in both royal houses. That is in line with what the ANC encourages: about traditional leaders being granted their dignity because they are leaders of the people who vote for us. At Nyandeni and at Qamata machines are running and there is a lot of activity. Soon you will be visiting there. We will also be looking forward to seeing you at Dalindyebo’s royal house too.]
The Department of Public Works plays a vital role in our struggle to reverse the legacy of poverty and underdevelopment. Through its Extended Public Works Programme which seeks to promote the sustainable economic development of South Africa’s poorest communities, the department has already made a significant impact on the lives of thousands of poor South Africans. Although the number of permanent jobs created is clearly insufficient to turn around the tide of unemployment and poverty which has engulfed our country as a result of apartheid, the programme nevertheless enabled more than 80 000 people to raise their income. This demonstrates the potential benefits which the Extended Public Works Programme has to offer.
The challenge facing us is to increase the number of sustainable jobs if we want to make significant dents in the immediate unemployment and poverty situation. However, we all know that this is not going to be an easy task because of the structural nature of unemployment and poverty. The formal economic sector and foreign investment will not necessarily be enough to change the unemployment and poverty situation in our country. This is because the formal sector and foreign investors demand highly skilled labour while the majority of the unemployed are poorly skilled. It needs to be complemented by a strategy that will create sustainable livelihood for our people.
Hence we have developed the Expanded Public Works Programme that is aimed at empowering people with skills which they can use in creating a sustainable livelihood for themselves. Providing people with these skills is very important given the fact that some Public Works projects are not intended to enable access to any permanent source of income for all those who participated in its creation.
In terms of the Public Works programme and gender equality, another positive aspect flowing from our Public Works programme is the extent to which these programmes are able to reach and benefit women. Because of the structure of gender relations in most societies, the social, cultural and economic constraints specifically confronting poor women may result in them failing to benefit from these programmes.
Fortunately, our Public Works programme is not encumbered by these problems. A measurable achievement of the Department of Public Works and indeed most government departments is the extent to which they have been able to integrate women in the development process and strengthened their participation in poverty alleviation programmes. This achievement is demonstrated by the fact that almost half the jobs created through our expanded Public Works programme have gone to women.
In addition, the ANC is also mindful of the immense potential of the Public Works programme to change the gender division of labour and promote gender equality particularly in our rural areas. In rural areas, women’s work is normally perceived to be limited to beer brewing, making of handicrafts, raising small livestock, but …
… ibisinceda ke loo nto bootata ababuya emgodini. Besiziphatha kakuhle iinkomo, babuye zizele zininzi. [That helped us a lot, if you should know as men who would be coming from the mines. We took care of livestock and men would find that more had been born.]
The participation of women, for example, in construction, an area considered a man’s domain, opens up new areas for employment and income generation. It contributes to the development of new perceptions about women’s potential and capabilities as well as building up women’s self- confidence.
Ingqinwe yile nto ndigqiba ukuyitsho apha ngentla. Bakuba bekhona ootata bonqena nokuvuka bakhaphele ezo nkomo. Abazisezi mayeza, abaziqhelanga kuba badla ngokushiya sityala emasimini, sijijitheka namakhuba kodwa sikwazi ukwenza kuba khona impumelelo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[That is supported by what I mentioned earlier. When they are at home these men are so lazy they cannot even drive cattle to the fields. They do not administer medicine to them, they are not used to them because they would just leave us having a difficult time ploughing the fields, but we had success.]
The ANC endorses the principle that infrastructure development is the primary driver to change the structural nature of poverty and unemployment. Our Expanded Public Works Programme is therefore targeted at the provision of infrastructure, particularly basic social and municipal services through labour-intensive methods that maximise job creation and skills development.
Furthermore, it is also directed towards achieving integration of our communities and deracialising our country. Our Extended Public Works Programmes seeks to achieve these objectives through the realignment of current Government infrastructure and maintenance investment at national, provincial and local government level. By enhancing intersectoral integration at national, provincial and local government level, our Extended Public Works Programme is providing an excellent example of practical ways in which we can build on and strengthen the principles of co- operative governance and joint planning.
Siyalibulela kakhulu isebe. [Uwelewele.] [We are grateful. [Interjections.]]
Mr M MABUYAKHULU (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, hon members from other provinces and permanent delegates, I rise to support the speech of the hon Minister of Public Works. Today’s debate takes place on the eve of the Growth and Development Summit that is expected, amongst other things, to highlight the critical role of the Expanded Public Works Programmes as a response to unemployment, poverty alleviation, black economic empowerment and the building of socioeconomic infrastructure that is greatly required in our country. The dominant view that Public Works is only about asset management of state assets is not only short-sighted, but must also change.
The strategic and critical role of Public Works is far larger than the narrow depiction in terms of which the various departments of provincial public works and the national Department of Public Works are considered. Such a change needs to start from within Government because it leads to a distortion of the role of Public Works. We cannot find any other explanation why the budget we are debating today has been reduced in the manner that it has been. We therefore, as the province of KwaZulu-Natal, would like to express our concern about the fact that the national budget for Public Works has been significantly reduced, thus limiting the capacity of the Department of Public Works to play an effective role in pushing back the frontiers of poverty. We also strongly believe that indeed the Department of Public Works must make a major contribution in ensuring that we do increase the Extended Public Works Programmes in our country.
As KwaZulu-Natal, we are advocating for an Expanded Public Works Programme that would create job opportunities for communities that live in and around the public facilities such as schools, clinics, government buildings and publicly-owned facilities. We believe very strongly that an Expanded Public Works Programme should bring pride and restore integrity to our people, as opposed to giving people the basic income grant where they have not worked for anything. Our people like to work. Our people would like to have their pride and dignity restored. They like to ensure they can go out and do things for themselves and earn a living like any other citizen.
I would like to indicate that KwaZulu-Natal is currently assessing all Public Works programmes that have taken place in our province. Indeed we are glad that the Minister has now given authority to provincial MECs in order for them to be able to undertake reviews of those Public Works programmes that exist in each and every province, and to ensure that those that are not performing well and are not viable are turned around into viable programmes. We are, therefore, currently undertaking a review of existing projects in partnership with the National Development Agency. At the conclusion of this review, we are hoping to turn around those projects that are not currently viable and make them work. Our slogan in KwaZulu- Natal is: Let us work, but also let us build economic prosperity amongst our people wherever they are.
In the past financial year, KwaZulu-Natal has spent just under R700 million on capital works projects such as schools, clinics and major works in the province. In the current financial year, we expect to spend in excess of more than a billion rand. Of this total amount, R452 million is in the schools building programme and another R180 million is in the schools maintenance programme. The remainder will be spent on clinics and hospital buildings and also maintaining government facilities in general. KwaZulu- Natal is in the process of passing the land and property disposal legislation. Yes, we have taken note of the input made by the Acting Chairperson here. This legislation will be passed by the provincial legislature during the current financial year.
Whilst we welcome the devolution of the budget for rates and taxes in respect of provincial properties, we hope that the Minister will not just give us a once-off allocation and stop there. We believe very strongly that this should be provided for at least in the MTEF process. This would enable provinces to be able to budget in the MTEF budget circle.
In conclusion, therefore, in KwaZulu-Natal we are grappling with some of the issues that we regard as challenges. Such challenges are challenges of developing systems that will tell us not only about how many jobs have been created through capital works projects, but that can give us a far bigger picture than that. It should be a tool that can indicate to us the direct economic impact that each and every project has in the economic community; that can give us an indication of the multiplier effect to the local economy - in other words, to what extent is it able to attract private- sector investment - and that can also give us an indication of the direct benefits to emerging entrepreneurs not just in percentages alone, but in rand value terms as well as in the aggregate form.
We are also developing a credible and modern asset register. Such a register would become an effective tool for making decisions that are necessary in managing the assets of Government. We believe in KwaZulu-Natal that some of the so-called assets that probably we are holding on our balance sheets are not necessarily assets but liabilities and, as a result of that, as a state we would be well-advised to ensure that we find a way of disposing of those liabilities as soon as we can. KwaZulu-Natal is a giant and therefore it is not fazed by the task at hand. We support the budget and trust that it will not be cut further in the forthcoming financial years. Instead we want to see growth taking place in this budget. We therefore support the budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister and special delegates and colleagues, as a responsible opposition, the DA cannot deny that the hon Minister and the Department of Public Works have worked steadfastly to give a human face, as the hon Minister so aptly put it, to the activities of the department. We take note of the many rural infrastructure developments that have been substituted for the drabness that existed for many decades in the countryside. In the words of the hon Dr Nel, he euphemistically referred to the deprivation of the past as mistakes of the past.
As a permanent delegate from the province of KwaZulu-Natal, I must concur with the sentiments expressed by the special delegate from KwaZulu-Natal, Faith Gasa, extolling the beneficial operations and what, as she put it, has happened in terms of a paradigm shift.
I must at the same time also concur with the remarks made by the hon Mike Mabuyakhulu who is the MEC for public works in my province, as to the true nature of the role of the Public Works not merely as a minder of an asset register. I share with him the concern about the budget being significantly reduced when we take into account that my province, KZN, is one of the more rural-based provinces in the country, and therefore the needs of the people are paramount.
The DA believes that a large-scale labour-intensive Public Works strategy is an appropriate transitional programme for South Africa. According to the Commission of Development and Enterprise, the CDE, enough money has already been budgeted to fund the start of the new large-scale, labour-intensive Public Works initiative. Because labour-intensive Public Works projects produce additional employment within existing patterns of expenditure by substituting labour for capital equipment, they will not pay sustainable demands on public funds. The important advantages notwithstanding, labour- intensive activities are not a panacea or a quick fix.
Whilst some programmes such as urban clean-up campaigns could be implemented within a year, labour-intensive works designed to create new infrastructure function best and spend most efficiently as part of a multiyear transition plan.
According to the commission, a commitment is needed from the Presidency and the Cabinet to fund a labour-intensive Public Works strategy as long as this is necessary to alleviate unemployment. The strategy has to be designed in such a way that it can realistically grow to a size at which it can bring down unemployment by 5% or more. This will require extensive private sector involvement.
In order to target the poor effectively, be sustainable and benefit the largest number of poor people, wages paid on labour-intensive activities should be as close as possible to local informal wages for unskilled casual labour. Wages should certainly be much lower than the formal minimum wage in the capital-intensive construction industry and should be tasked based. To prevent corruption and obtain a product of the required quality, contracts entered into between all levels of government and construction companies or other implementing agencies, should incorporate clearly specified and fully binding requirements for the use of labour-intensive methods.
A system must be set to ensure that contractors, consultants and other implementors who act corruptly or deviate from the contractual obligations in respect of labour intensity or other requirements will have their contracts terminated and be excluded from further Public Works projects.
Care must also be taken to ensure that the new labour-intensive strategy is compatible with the transformation of the existing construction sector under the auspices of the Construction Industry Development Board. Two of the main aims of the board which are procurement reform and black economic empowerment are just as important to labour-intensive Public Works projects as they are to the conventional sector.
Equally, the strategy must supplement and not replace Government’s current or planned conventional infrastructure spending. The two programmes could make a dramatic contribution to employment creation.
Opening Parliament in February 2003, the President restated the goal of creating expanded Public Works Programmes and said that: ``Government must act to ensure that we reduce the number of people dependent on social welfare and increase the number relying for their livelihood on normal participation in the economy.’’
A new labour-intensive strategy will bring together Government and business to build infrastructure and to create jobs for the unemployed poor. It would be one of the best ways of creating an enduring partnership for a democratic South Africa at work. [Applause.] Ms T ESSOP (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon delegates and hon Minister, I rise to congratulate the Minister and convey our support for her budget today. I am also honoured to follow on after my counterpart from KwaZulu- Natal who said that they are a giant. I want to proclaim today that the Western Cape is an emerging giant. [Laughter.]
We are emerging from a province that was previously controlled by the DA. The province is now being controlled by the ANC/NNP coalition government. We are emerging as part of the new South Africa where transformation in the Western Cape was, unfortunately, not put as a first priority of the previous government of the Western Cape. Therefore I am very proud to announce today that in this particular portfolio, and with the other portfolios in the Western Cape government, we have fast-tracked transformation in this province.
Last year in my speech in this House on this Budget Vote, I indicated and made commitments to our national Minister that we would start putting in place the interventions that the rest of the country had already done. So let me spell out the priorities and some of the interventions that we have put in place in this portfolio. My portfolio, as members can see, covers transport and public works. So, when I define my priorities, I will cover both portfolios but I will talk about the public works portfolio specifically.
The priorities for this department in this financial year is, of course, public transport as a very key and first priority of the department, black economic empowerment, job creation, poverty alleviation and, finally, road safety.
In terms of public works, my budget for this year has increased for the public works component of this department to R692,3 million and for Community-Based Public Works programmes, specifically, R48,5 million.
Let me deal with black economic empowerment as our first priority. On 1 April 2003, we launched and started implementing our preferential procurement implementation plan which, in terms of our preferential procurement provincial policy, is required of each department. I am pleased to announce that my department is the first department in the Western Cape administration to launch such a programme. This programme entails a number of aspects. Firstly, we will put all contracts through what we call an empowerment impact assessment. We will start phasing this in with all those contracts which are about 500 000 initially and, then eventually, as our capacity grows we will do an empowerment impact assessment on all of our contracts in this particular department.
What this empowerment impact assessment firstly looks at is at maximising job creation through the way we develop our contracts specification and how we maximise our PDI empowerment through all our contracts so that we can achieve the targets we have set ourselves in this department in terms of PDI empowerment.
It also deals with an emerging contractor development support programme. I am proud to announce that we are, in this financial year, going to be specifically setting aside a targeted programme for women in construction. We have also looked at targeting advertising because we have found that many PDI contractors do not have access to our tenders because we do not advertise in a targeted way.
Finally, we have put in place and I have appointed an evaluation and monitoring committee directly accountable to me, which is independent of the department. This committee will specifically be doing an audit of our empowerment and looking at whether or not we have achieved our targets and objectives. Secondly and very importantly, it will also be tasked with doing forensic audits where we find that fronting is happening. I am sure members will agree that this is a very big problem in our BEE objectives.
Let me now turn to our Community-Based Public Works Programme. When I took over this portfolio last year, this particular programme did not appear to be part of the programme of public works under a DA-controlled government. Mrs A M VERSFELD: [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Ms T ESSOP: Mrs Versfeld, I said it was not a priority under a DA- controlled government. In fact we immediately instituted such a programme in the Western Cape … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J MAHLANGU): Order!
Ms T ESSOP: Deputy Chairperson, we in the Western Cape legislature are used to this howling.
We have instituted a programme and moved it from being purely a community access roads programme which targeted district municipalities in the province, and shifted the emphasis to dealing with at least 60% of our budget being allocated to the metro. We have found, through the CSIR study, that there are large pockets of poverty in the metro area in the Western Cape, and 40% of our budget will be allocated to rural areas. We are also shifting the focus from community access roads to dealing with issues of public space, sidewalks and cycling paths in many of our poorer townships.
We have extended the programme to include a programme called Zenzele which is really a lengthmen contract programme which my counterpart from the Eastern Cape has clearly defined. We are putting in place a programme called Saamstaan which is a building maintenance programme creating employment for the youth and women specifically. We have a cleansing programme for our government motor vehicles. This also creates jobs.
We are proud to say that our experiential training programme, which is an internship programme in our department for tertiary students, has recently won an award from the Peninsula Technikon. We are therefore very proud of that particular programme.
We held a construction summit on 29 May which focused on two key areas. These were black economic empowerment, and education and capacity-building. We would be very pleased to be part of a national process where we can share the challenges with the Minister with regards to the initiatives to transform the construction industry. We hope we can form partnerships in that regard.
In the department’s national budget in the National Assembly the other day, the Minister announced an incubator programme and we would like to form partnerships in this regard. I am also pleased to announce that we will be hosting our second Women in the Built Environment Summit in August this year. We hope to invite the Minister to be our keynote speaker. So, Minister, you are forewarned very early about the invitation. [Laughter.]
Let me now turn to property management. We have currently finalised our draft white paper for property management and shifted the focus from what was originally just purely an income-generating approach to the disposal of our assets to one that now looks at both income generation and also very clearly at meeting our socioeconomic objectives and, in this regard, releasing land for housing and land restitution purposes. We are also looking at ways of disposing our property to enhance our BEE objectives as well.
We have completed our asset register to the extent that it can be completed. Of course there is the constant transfer of assets to provinces via the section 28 certificates. As it happens, we obviously update our asset register. We are currently finalising our strategic accommodation plan with our user departments which will also include the signing of user agreements with those different user departments.
We in the Western Cape have risen to the challenges that were presented to us in terms of transformation both internally in terms of the department, and externally in terms of the issues relating to what our President has highlighted as national challenges which are pushing back the frontiers of poverty. We are proud to admit that we will continue meeting these challenges as creatively as we can. I believe, as many have said in this House, that the Department of Public Works becomes central as a mobiliser towards fulfilling all those objectives. [Applause.]
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, special delegates, hon delegates and all who are here, I need to preface my presentation by expressing my sincere appreciation of our Minister as a person and for the outreach and care she has shown in her Ministry. So far all presenters have mentioned how fairly and widely she has cared for all the provinces in allocating assistance as adequately as was needed within the financial constraints she has to live with. We truly thank you, Minister, for your commitment. Even when you were frail in health, you always gave the best of who you are. God bless you.
This debate on Public Works is of crucial importance to the Free State as a province which is at the centre of the country and thus, for decades, has been a magnet of many ventures of business and social programmes to such an extent that our hospitals, clinics, sports grounds and administrative buildings are in acute need of upgrading and maintenance.
To cite one example, the Free State legislature meets in a historical building called The Raadsaal. It is in need of major maintenance and repairs. The ceiling in the women’s toilets has had leakages and is threatening to fall down.
But the Free State decided to find ways that can employ more people who are acutely unemployed, especially in the small and rural townships, so that we can push back the frontiers of poverty. The crisis is more one of hunger than of poverty. It is worse to be poor and hungry. The worst, of course, is to have the added burden of unemployment, especially amongst the most vulnerable.
Thus we launched a building project in the small rural town of Trompsburg where we provided jobs to men, women and youth who are employed in labour- intensive construction so as to give a chance to more people to have their dignity restored as they are employed, trained and earn a wage for themselves and are able to buy for themselves the needs of foods and other requisites rather than pray and prey on charities. This source of employment enabled recruitment of labour to come from the neighbouring towns of Edenville, Smithfield, Reddersburg and other farming communities.
Men, women and youth scraped manually to create road which was later laid with bricks. They ferried mortar made of stronger forces and laid cables in record time. As a result, they have built a conference centre, tennis court, rugby and soccer stadium, cricket and basketball sites. It was lovely to see the facial changes in women and children who were heads of households, orphans, youth, working men and those affected by HIV/Aids when they were also integrated into the workforce.
This was our Community-Based Public Works programme. The venture was officially opened with pomp and splendour, well-covered in the media and officially opened by the Minister of Sport, Arts and Recreation. Under our poverty alleviation programme underway and in pursuance of our Batho Pele policy, we have the following seven projects that are in operation right now: a community hall in Luckhoff; others in Van Stadensrus, Bethanie, Bultfontein, Herzogville; and we are also building an access road to Oppermansgronde; and at Eureka, which is a juvenile rehabilitation centre where they have a school. That facility is also being upgraded in Thaba Nchu.
These projects form part of the intervention measures for specific poverty- stricken communities to the value of R4,9 million to be completed within this financial year of 2003-04. Within these funds, many were trained in technical skills and 70 people, including women, were trained in management skills. They included vulnerable people who also included youth and those who are physically challenged.
This budget that was allocated had a huge developmental impact on the rural communities, especially of Xhariep in the main Lejweleputswa district. We have similar Community-Based Public Works Programmes underway in Qwa Qwa, the Maluti-a-Phafang Municipal area and in the Xhariep districts. The aforementioned areas were on the the list for the rehabilitation of internal roads.
Following our black empowerment programme, 12 projects were awarded to women contractors to the value of R22 million. Some of these were not controlled fully by women but a sizeable number of women benefited from these contracts. Some of these SMME companies that received the award for various parts of the contract that were owned and controlled by women are as follows: North Free State, R11 million; Thabo Mofutsanyane, R137 million; Xhariep, R1,9 million; and Lejweleputswa, R105 million. Free State is really on the move.
In this financial year, a minimum of 60% of our procurement was allocated to businesses owned by indigenous Africans, women and companies that have indigenous Africans as shareholders in their management. This is not a racist or ethnic approach but practical efforts that open door for those who, in the past, were never allowed even to knock on those doors. This redress of the past discrimination also shows the growing support of such an outreach beyond racial lines.
The Free State is fulfilling our wishes that are enshrined in our Freedom Charter where it states that people not only have rights but that the people shall share even the jobs without fear or favour. All the people of God shall share in turning around this barren but free land to be finally the land of happiness, growth and creativity, as we care for all the people of God in the change; change not only in structures, but also in the change of the hearts of all our people in order to be hate-free, fear-free, caring, sharing communities that are God-guided and people-centred.
Thanks to the ANC Government, through their Public Works projects that enabled people to rise up and walk again, we have reduced poverty, hunger has been killed and productivity enhanced for the future of our children, our country and the world. More funding will continue to give us the impetus to make more people love life as they become skilled and shape and take charge of their own destiny.
This is the Free State. Watch it! Khotso Baratuwa!. Sharp sharp. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you, Deputy Chair. I really must thank all the hon members for their contribution to the Vote. You have made my day. We want to believe that, as I said in the Assembly, Public Works was once regarded as just a department with nothing else but handymen. We want to believe that we are a department which actually works for the country. I once said to the President that if all works well, we would like to have a situation where, from Bizana to Galeshewe, we would actually feel as if we were listening to the wheels of development literally moving.
What the President had to say this year as part of his speech was encouraging. He said that, yes, it is true that we have all the various grants that we have, but the important thing is to have a South Africa in which people are at work, because that brings the dignity of a person to the fore.
I remember, in the early years of our democracy, that I was explaining at a meeting some of the things that Government was planning to do, and the moneys Government was going to give. I mentioned the issue of housing and that it might even be extended to some of the rural areas, the actual locations. One man stood up and said, ``All we want is to get jobs so that we can build our own houses’’. He actually said that.
Yindoda enjani eza kwakhelwa indlu yenye indoda? [What kind of a man has his house built by another man?]
In as much as this man, Mfundisi, was also against wearing a T-shirt with somebody else’s head on it … [Laughter.]
Yathi: Heyi!'' xa ihamba ethubeni, ndifath’ intloko yeny’ indoda’’.
[Kwahlekwa.] [And he said: Hey you!'' as he was leaving,I am wearing a
T-shirt with somebody else’s face on it.’’ [Laughter.]]
We believe, in Public Works, that those words of the President should actually be followed. One of the reasons why I actually elaborated on the community production centres the way I did, was to say that, through some of the poverty relief programmes that we have, we could actually build up some dynamic economic enclaves even in the worst-off rural areas that we have in South Africa.
Last year, when there was a food shortage, especially with regard to some of our neighbouring states, I actually felt bad that we had not yet worked fully on the CPCs. I felt that, in all our provinces, we could actually have turned them into being pantries with seeds to give to neighbouring people when they have problems. I want to believe that when we talk about poverty relief, that is what we are all talking about. If you listened carefully to the contributions of the members, especially the MECs, I smiled at what I heard and I said to Mfundisi - I call him Mfundisi, umntan’ am lo (my child). [Laughter.] - that our Minmec goes a long way.
I smiled because what was coming out of each contribution was a meeting of minds, a planning together, and a production of results. It is also a recognition by national Government that you can never superimpose; you must also listen to people who have got first-hand experience of what is happening in the provinces. Then you put your act together. That is why I said, at the beginning, that I really appreciate the co-operation that I have from the MECs who, by and large, could easily be my younger brothers or even my sons and daughters.
While I am talking about the MECs, I just want to congratulate the Western Cape for having had their provincial summit, and I just to remind my other colleagues that our national summit is in October, and it would be good if they could have their summits now.
In answer to some of the questions that arose, I would like to assure the hon Nel that when expenditure was not happening in Public Works, we decided that we were going to be a service department which has clients, and that those client departments should say what it is that we must do.
We got a wake-up call when, after eighteen months of planning, when I got to Public Works, I realised that, goodness me, planning took such a long time. I didn’t know that. When, after a lengthy period of planning, one department just said: ``We are changing our minds, we are no longer going to have this project’’, we then decided that the departments must have their budgets for capital works, not for everything, and that they should bring us a prioritised list of what they want us to do. From that point onwards, we turned history around.
I found a situation where people just believed that the budget on capital works is never fully spent in Public Works …
Imbali. Futhi kuhlalwe … [It is history. And people would just relax …]
… and people just believed that it was the order of the day. But, with the new thinking, that has removed relaxation on the part of sister departments, because now they have to account for the other expenditure, and not us. That is why, with their help - and I appreciate all the co- operation we have had coming from sister departments - we can now really say, as far as underexpenditure on capital works is concerned that the tide has turned.
The only problem is that the type of inheritance we got of dilapidated buildings is problematic, because we cannot cover them all in one goal. I normally say …
… eMaMpondweni, Nakundixolela, eMaMpondweni sithetha nanjani na. [Please excuse me, as amaMpondo we speak anyhow.]
When people want to make impossible demands, it is only a few people who get quadruplets or quintuplets. Children are normally staggered; that is what God does in most cases. So at times when people are impatient with us and think that delivery from Government must be like a storm, they should bear in mind that stormwaters at times become very rough and destructive.
Things become rough, at times, for some of the contractors we have, where they will look at the cost of the tender they have just won and already plan for the car before finishing or even starting on the road. And then we end up getting what I called shaved roads or winter roads. For, if they are shaved, only the grader will go through; you won’t find any gravel or any stone work. Those roads look good in winter, but come summer, they get washed away.
I would like to implore hon members as citizens of this country who must safeguard the money of Government, to report when they feel that whoever is doing work on behalf of Government is playing games with us. Otherwise it becomes a useless process. Not far from my place - I just say this since I was angry about it and because I am in Public Works - that the provincial government has been redoing the road to my brother’s place for almost the fifth time now. Then, as Public Works, we thought that we would do a better job and we got this special contractor to whom we said that we had material which could be used, and that the road could only be maintained after five years.
I am sorry to say that the road deteriorated after six months. In Public Works, I have said those people must never ever be given a contract again. They have put themselves on the blacklist.
Another thing I must commend is the type of partnerships that we have, not only with the private sector but also the working relationships that we have with other departments. The Department of Labour is one that needs mentioning. Whenever we have people who have to deal with construction of any kind, we insist that there should be training. Almost all the time, the Department of Labour helps us with that type of training. It has now created a pool of people with some kind of a skill. In Hlabisa, for instance, we trained people for two projects that we are going to do, and when it came to the tarring of the road by a private company, all of those people who had been trained for the building of the schools got jobs, because they had this particular type of training. So training is paramount in what we are doing in that it is the only gateway to make sure that our people will have some kind of a life.
The other thing I would like help with from the provinces is for them to tell us if some of our projects are really white elephants so that we could change the use they are meant for. It is useless pouring Government money into something only to find that, after two years, people have lost interest, especially with regard to the community gardens. And then you see this patch of ground next to the river with a fence with nothing growing on the inside. For instance, we have built a lot of halls because, at some point in the past, it was the thing to do to build halls. The truth of the matter is that people need multipurpose community centres, because they become one-stop-shop centres for everybody. You get a lot of services happening, with the elderly no longer having to borrow money to travel 80km or 90km to the nearest dorp in order for them to register for old age pensions. Because of the improvement in communication, we even have systems now where, in your own community, you can go and get information and even an application form for some of the jobs you would like to apply for. I don’t want to take a long time, because you were all helpful with the budget.
The last point I just want to raise is a simple one. I want to get the MECs to understand that, definitely, the next amount for rates and taxes will come from the MTEF. They should not worry about that, because we have suggested that these should be devolved to them, and it should come to them. I must express my thanks for the enthusiasm with which people are beginning to involve and encourage women in construction.
Ukwakha kwaqalwa ngoomama emakhaya besakha izitena. [Building was started by women when they made bricks.] I remember, as a kid, we would follow oxen … singene eludakeni sixove udaka … [… and mix soil with water to make mud … ] because people were going to make bricks.
If you sit there and watch carefully, some of the methods that were used 40 years back and were abandoned because we thought it was the fashionable thing to do to abandon them, are actually going to be the methods that are once more going to enable people to be at work in the various communities. So I am excited that the result of the challenge I got from the Port Elizabeth women on a particular women’s day is actually now a thing that is happening in the whole of South Africa, of having women in construction.
I must therefore thank you all for such a comfortable debate, and also thank you for the visits that this House makes to the various provinces. You don’t just visit; you also furnish us with reports, and we take them as they are. We always believe that even where there is criticism, it is constructive criticism. Well, the Deputy Minister has heard about … [Interjections.] We must be honest. We would like that function to be removed from Public Works’ ambit. It is the transport function. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
ANTI-PERSONNEL MINES PROHIBITION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): I call upon the Minister of Defence, Mr M G Lekota.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, I have a problem. I am sorry to interrupt the business of the House, but I wanted to inform you that we have prepared a party where I stay in Gardens. There are some people here without transport. We will wait for them outside and provide transport when you are through with your programme. Thank you. [Applause.] The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Deputy Chairperson, the Bill before the House seeks to place our country in a position in which we can effect the ratification of the Mines Ban Treaty. I hasten to remind the members that … [Interjections.] This tray is very troublesome. [Laughter.] I’ll go to a different one.
I hasten to remind the members of the House that anti-personnel landmines were heavily used in the Cold War years and it was a very lethal weapon for liberation formations, whether it was in Africa, Asia or Latin America where small, armed guerillas had to make the terrain very dangerous for the conventional armed forces that they were faced with.
Our region was no less itself a user of this instrument. Over a period of time, the study of landmines has shown that they are a terrible setback for the human race because the landmine - otherwise known as an anti-personnel mine - has been described as a perfect soldier, undetected until it is too late. It never misses, never sleeps and is always silent. Because it is activated by the victim, it is bound to do damage. Long after the war is finished, that soldier is still at war. So even when peace agreements have been signed, the anti-personnel mines are still there, determined to fight a war that has been concluded. It is for that reason that nations of the world, having considered the matter, agreed that it is important that anti- personnel mines should be eliminated.
I want to give you an example. If you were to consider the lifespan of this dreadful weapon, you would realise that it is often laid as a booby trap. It is put in place often in agricultural land - perhaps along a road - usually by a terrified youngster or a guerilla who is rushing to hide away. Whoever puts it there cannot wait to get as much distance between himself and it because they are not even sure it is not going take their lives. Probably, whoever puts it there recalls the instructor describing what it can do. Even more probable is the possibility that he has seen the amputees or heard his comrades crying out in pain, alone in the dark, in the minefield were no one will dare to go to his or her assistance.
At a later stage, often years later, there is an explosion, killing or maiming a child, who, on his or her way to collecting wood or fetching water, looked at it curiously before trying to pick it up or unknowingly runs along a track before stepping on it. If he or she is lucky, temporarily blindness and perforated ear drums might occur besides the sheer terror that they may suffer. You are lucky if that happens. Maybe - but not likely, more frequently - the victim must trek for miles to a clinic, if there are any in some rural areas where this weapon is usually located. In a rural area where there is unlikely to be any extra blood, probably few bandages and painkillers, the victim has very little chance of survival.
If he or she is lucky enough to survive, a prosthesis will be fitted, but the child will have to undergo surgery every three to six months as the bone continues to grow and causes great discomfort as it sticks into the artificial limb. I do not exaggerate either the identity of the victim as a civilian or probably a child, nor can I even begin to describe the terror of these weapons sufficiently. The International Committee of the Red Cross reports that the only purpose for which mines have been used with total success by the mine-layer and with total impact on the target is for the containment or harassment of civilians.
The main characteristic of a mine is that it is designed to be victim- activated. Totally unprepared for the effects of mine warfare, civilians suffer terribly. A shocking statistic is that one in 470 people in Angola have had one or more limbs amputated as a result of the anti-personnel mines. Even the shortest visit to many of our capital cities like Luanda or Maputo, or to rural areas in these countries of Rwanda, DRC, or Northern Namibia reveals the successful strike of the mines. Everywhere you go, you will see these individuals - youngsters, many of them maybe only in their early 20s, maimed for life. They are everywhere in Luanda and in the cities. If you compare what you see there in a country like Angola with the statistics in a country like the United States, where you will probably find one out of 22 000 victims, you can see how much personnel and human resources have been lost in that country as a result of landmines.
The International Committee of the Red Cross states that these weapons currently claim some 2 000 victims a month and, over the last 50 years, have probably inflicted more deaths and injuries than nuclear and chemical weapons combined. Landmines, which were originally conceived to counter the use of tanks and other armoured vehicles, have been increasingly designed to target human beings. The United Nations has reckoned that landmines are at least ten times more likely to kill or injure a civilian after a conflict than a combatant after hostilities. Combatants, once peace is signed, will cease to do anything. Maybe here and there, some, out of bitterness, will attack others. The landmines, however, will continue at the same rate as if the war was continuing.
In 1996, we prohibited the export of all types of landmines. In 1997, we prohibited the use, development, production and stockpiling of anti- personnel landmines. By 1998, some 312 000 anti-personnel landmines held by the Department of Defence had been destroyed. There is of course an angle to this issue. All the time, we train members of the SA National Defence Force. We have to make sure that they remain familiar with the know-how of this kind of weapon, because, if you send them out for peace missions and so on, they have to have the know-how to be able to deal with those weapons if they should encounter them.
South Africa has sought to operationalise the Mines Ban Treaty by preparing this Anti-Personnel Mines Prohibition Bill which is before the House today. Angola’s recent ratification of the Mines Ban Treaty now means that all SADC countries are on board and under the umbrella of the convention. This must now be taken forward by promulgating domestic legislation and penal sanctions to give effect to the conventions.
South Africa’s ratification of this legislation has its roots in the international campaign to rid the world of anti-personnel landmines. I must say that these are many in type. For instance, many of the weapons that were raining down on Baghdad a few weeks back, have a similar effect. It is clear that the cluster bomb, in particular, acts in a very similar way to the anti-personnel landmines. They are small, scattered, silent and objects of curiosity to children. Governments, in conjunction with their defence forces, have to actively revisit their military doctrine to eradicate use of these weapons. Governments also need to ensure that public awareness is such that, if conflict breaks out, the use of mines or the hacking off of limbs is considered so repulsive that their use will unconditionally and unanimously be condemned by all participants in such conflicts.
The focus of our immediate efforts should now be to rid the SADC community and the region of the scourge of landmines. Nepad’s peace and security initiative focuses on building Africa’s capacity to manage all aspects of conflict by strengthening existing continental and regional institutions that deal, amongst other things, with combating the illicit proliferation of small arms, light weapons and landmines. We are playing a leading role in demining, in the training of deminers and in improving the cost efficiency of operations.
When the South African Government approved the restructuring of Mechem, Denel’s demining technology power house, it insisted that the demining component would neither be shut down nor privatised, precisely because it is a critical component of humanitarian assistance that must not be driven by profit. Local community participation and education are central to this assistance. So presently, in our own region, we have become an important resource for training young people and others from neighbouring countries so that they are able to go back and lead their communities in the work of ridding the territory and terrain in which they grew up of these weapons.
We would also urge the wider demining industry to adopt a code of conduct that is respected and implemented by all. South Africa remains totally committed to the anti-personnel landmines viewpoint, the destruction of existing stockpiles, mine awareness, the clearance of emplaced mines and victim assistance. We would urge those countries which have not yet passed legislation such as this Bill to do so urgently. Peace and security in the region and on our continent must remain a top priority for South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, in this Bill, we are addressing a deadly scourge that might be caused by anti-personnel mines. Our Government has already signed and ratified the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-personnel Mines and on their Destruction.
Ke Mmušo wa batho wo o ka tšeyago kgato ya mohuta wo. Ke Mmušo wa go tšeya gabotse wo o ka tšeyago kgato ya mohuta wo. Ke Mmušo wa kwelobohloko wo ka tšeyago kgato ye bjalo. Ke fela Mmušo wa mokgatlo wo mogolo wa African National Congress wo o nago le lešoko baneng ba wona, o ka tšeyago kgato ya mohuta wo.
Ke ka baka leo re rego Mmušo wo etilwego pele ke mokgatlo wo mogolo wa African National Congress, ga go na wo swanago le wona. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: It is only a people’s government that can introduce such measures. It is only a viable government that can introduce such measures. It is only a sympathetic government that can introduce such measures. It is only the great ANC-led Government, which is sympathetic towards its people, that can introduce such measures.
And that is why we say nothing compares to the great ANC-led Government.]
I hope this been driven through to my colleague, Bernice Sondedondering.
Chairperson, anti-personnel mines are dangerous; they maim, destroy, destruct and kill innocent and defenceless civilians. Directly or indirectly, something had to be done to stop this. That is the reason why our Government, after signing the convention, directed the relevant department to come up with this piece of legislation - the Anti-Personnel Mines Bill. This is the mandate given by the UN Secretary-General to all countries that are signatories to this convention.
There is a belief by some European countries that many of our African states cannot practise what they preach. This is a call to all the signatories: Let’s prove them wrong! This piece of legislation will be implementable, accessible, reasonable and relevant.
Let us for a moment think of our brothers and sisters whose limbs had to be amputated because of these anti-personnel mines. Let us think of the many precious lives that are lost because of these anti-personnel mines. Let us think of those kids who are now orphans because of these anti-personnel mines. Again, let’s think of those parents who are unable to support their kids because of these anti-personnel mines. Let us think of those who are now confined to wheelchairs because of these anti-personnel mines. Just think of those pictures of people who are disfigured because of these anti- personnel mines. You are bound to be touched by them. For Heaven sake, who, in his or her sober mind, can object or refuse when the Government prohibits, puts conditions on, controls or regulates the use of these anti- personnel mines? No one.
That is why this Bill makes it possible for perpetrators to be prosecuted by relevant courts. That is why there are measures to deal with those who go against the provision of this legislation.
To those who are still in possession of these anti-personnel mines, a brotherly piece of advice and warning is: Please come out willingly and voluntarily before our law enforcement agencies pounce upon you.
Local and international inspectors can, for example, seize, search, and destroy any item that might be undesirable or dangerous to human beings, the environment or even property.
Chairperson, the evergreen and always alert Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs detected some clauses that needed some amendments. We effected some changes to clause 11(2). That clause was reformulated. The clause deals with a country that is not a signatory to the convention on anti-personnel mines. The clause allows the Department of Defence to participate in operations, exercises or other military activities with the armed forces of that particular state. This clause in its current form is ambiguous. What we are bringing in is that if that other country that is not a signatory to the convention violates or contravenes any provision of this legislation, the Minister must order the termination of any further involvement in the operation, exercise or activity in question.
Members came up with their different formulations, as you will hear from my colleague, Mr Matthee. But, finally, we agreed that the formulation which we have proposed will rule supreme. The new formulation is there for everyone to see.
On behalf of this wonderful, dynamic and calculating committee, I formally put the amendment before the Council.
Chairperson, hon members, you don’t want to know how happy the department was when we effected changes to clause 19 of this Bill, for example. The anti-personnel mines are not only a spectre of doom to the environment and people; they are also a danger to properties. Again, the committee detected that we needed to reformulate this clause. I’m putting this new proposal again - the second one - before the Council.
Let me end by thanking my colleagues and committee members for their unqualified support and dedication to this committee. I humbly commend the Bill as amended to this Council for adoption or approval. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chair, thank you very much. It is an honour to follow on after my learned Chief and Chairperson of this committee.
Voorsitter, die doelstellings van hierdie wetsontwerp en die konvensie, of MBT soos dit ook bekend staan, is reeds deur die Minister en ander sprekers genoem en bespreek. Ek sal dit darem nie herhaal nie.
Vir die Minister se inligting wil ek egter net kortliks noem dat hierdie Huis vroeër vandag eenparig ‘n besluit geneem het waarin dit kennis geneem het van die feit dat soos op 9 Mei 2003 daar steeds 47 lande was wat nog nie die Konvensie geteken het nie en ‘n beroep op daardie lande gedoen het om dit nou te oorweeg om dit so gou as moontlik te doen. Dit is nogal ontstellend om te sien dat lande soos China, Kuba, Egipte, Finland, Indië, Pakistan, Rusland en die Verenigde State van Amerika onder die lande is wat tot op datum nog nie geteken het nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, the objectives of this Bill and the convention, or MBT, as it is also known, have already been mentioned and discussed by the Minister and other speakers. At least I shall not repeat that.
For the hon the Minister’s information, however, I just want to mention briefly that this House unanimously proposed a resolution earlier today in which it took note of the fact that as at 9 May 2003 there were still 47 countries which had not yet ratified the convention, and appealed to those countries now to consider doing so as soon as possible. It is quite disconcerting to see that countries such as China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, India, Pakistan, Russia and the United States of America are amongst the countries which have not yet signed.]
In respect of the Bill itself and the report of the committee, I wish to refer you to clause 11. I wish to state that I am in full agreement with the proposed amendment by the committee in the report.
I did, however, indicate at the committee meeting that I was of the opinion that, in the light of the proposed amendment, it was necessary to include a further sentence or subclause to the following effect: that, in the event of the Minister not ordering the termination of any further involvement in the operation, exercise or activity in question, the Minister may take such other appropriate action as he or she may deem necessary.
I argued that the Minister should be in a position where he can exercise a discretion to, for example, require certain undertakings from such armed forces or state and/or that certain measures be introduced to prevent the recurrence of such contravention and/or to set certain further conditions.
Although Mr Maloyi agreed with me, my hon chair and Chief who normally follows my legal advice … [Laughter] … this time decided, for some very unknown reason, to rather agree with the state law advisers and the department that this proposal would still render the clause a contradiction in terms. I unfortunately did not pursue the matter any further then because, you know, the chairperson is not just the chairperson, but of course also my Chief. And when the Chief has spoken, one should keep quiet after that.
But afterwards, I again discussed this with the legal adviser who, after further explanation by me, and I don’t want to bind him, seemed to agree with me. On reflection, I still think that my proposal is sound as it does not create a contradiction in terms and it will put the Minister in a position where he can act in the best interests of our Defence Force and country, taking into account the specific circumstances pertaining at the time. I will therefore also make these remarks of mine available to the Portfolio Committee on Defence when they again consider the Bill.
Chair, it is abundantly clear from the wealth of information contained in the Landmine Monitor Report of 2002 that the Mines Ban Treaty and the Ban Movement more generally are making tremendous strides in eradicating anti- personnel landmines and in saving lives and limbs in every region of the world.
This progress is inter alia shown by widespread international rejection of any use or possession of anti-personnel mines; cessation of mine use in key countries; mine use is halted, at least temporarily, in several countries where it has been most widespread in recent years. In Angola, for instance, there has been no use since the April 2002 Peace Agreement. Eritrea and Ethiopia have had no use since the end of the border conflict in June 2000. In Sri Lanka there was no use since the ceasefire in 2001.
There are dramatic reductions in anti-personnel mine stockpiles. More than 34 million anti-personnel mines have been destroyed by 61 states, including some 7 million in the reporting period from May 2001 to mid-2002. There are fewer new mine victims. Landmine monitors’ ever more detailed research on landmine casualties confirmed that the estimated number of new landmine and unexploded ordnance casualties are now between 15 000 and 20 000 per year. This represents a significant reduction in the long-standing and commonly cited estimate of 26 000 new casualties each year. Mine action programmes have been expanded tremendously.
There have, however, unfortunately also been key concerns emerging from the said report. Since late December 2001, India and Pakistan … Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Umntwana B Z ZULU: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, uNgqongqoshe ohloniphekile kanye namalungu. Izwe laseNingizimu Afrika lasayina isivumelwano mhla ka-18 kuMandulo ngo-1997 sokuvimbela ukusetshenziswa nokugcinwa kweziqhumane ngendlela engekho emthethweni. Lesi sivumelwane sibuye sivimbele ukwedlulisela umkhiqizo weziqhumane kwabanye. Lo mthetho unikeza uNgqongqoshe igunya lokuba akhombe umuntu othile ukuba aphenye uma ezwa kunezinsolo zokwephula ukusetshenziswa kwalesi sivumelwano.
Futhi uvumela ukuba uMbutho weZokuvikela waseNingizimu Afrika ukwazi ukusebenzisa izinhlelo zawo ngale kokuphazamisa izivumelwano nokuba unobhala weNhlangano yeZizwe akwazi ukungena eNingizimu Afrika azophenya uma kunamahemuhemu awezwayo okwephula lesi sivumelwano.
Umhlaba wonke ubukeka ukhathazekile ngeziqhumane eseziqhubeke zathatha impilo yabaningi isikhathi eside. Yileso sizathu-ke esenza imibuso yomhlaba yenza isivumelwano sokuvimbela ukwanda kwalolu hlobo lwezikhali ngendlela engadingekile. Ngakho-ke lo mthetho ohlongozwayo namuhla inhloso yawo enkulu ukuba kuqedwe ngawo ukulimala nokuhlukumezeka, kanjalo nokufa kwezinkulungwane zabantu, okuyinto eyenzeka nsuku zonke.
Laba bantu ababulawa yilezi ziqhumane basuke bengenacala futhi abakwazi nokuzivikela, ikakhulukazi izingane nabesifazane. Izwe elidlavuzwe yiziqhumane umnotho walo uyalimala, kuthi intuthuko yezwe ikhiyabezeke nayo. Okukhulu okusalayo ngemumva kwalokho ngumonakalo owesabekayo nokuhlukumezeka kwezimpilo nosizi kanye nobubha ezweni. Umnotho wezwe owakhiwa kanzima ngezithukuthuku zabantu ushabalala ngomzuzu owodwa ngemuva kweziqhumane. Ngakho-ke uMnyango wezokuVikela ubona kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba nawo ubhekane nenselelo yomhlaba wonke yokuba ushaye umthetho wokuvikela ukusetshenziswa kweziqhumane.
Kusemqoka ukuba imibuso yomhlaba inikeze isiqinisekiso emiphakathini eyakheleyo sokuthi iphephile, ngokuba yakhe izivumelwano nemithetho yokusebenza kweziqhumane ngendlela efaneleyo. Futhi siyayisekela kakhulu imizamo yeNhlangano yoMhlaba yeSiphambano eSibomvu yokukhankasela ukuchithwa nokushatshalaliswa kweziqhumane ezimbelwe phansi. Ngakho-ke thina njengo-ANC siyawesekela lo mthetho. Ngiyabonga sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Prince B Z ZULU: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister and hon members, on 8 September 1997 South Africa signed the agreement on the prevention of the use and the keeping of bombs in an illegal manner. This agreement also prevents the transfer of explosive devices to others illegally. The Bill gives the Minister the authority to appoint someone to investigate when there are suspicions of this agreement being violated.
It also allows the SANDF to be able to use its structures without interfering in the agreement and giving the General-Secretary of the UN the right to come to South Africa and conduct a search if there are suspicions of a violation of this agreement.
The whole world looks unhappy about these bombs that have been taking the lives of many for a long time. That is the reason why the governments of the nations signed an agreement that prevents the spread of bombs in an unnecessary manner. Therefore, the aim of the proposed Bill is to stop the injuring and victimisation as well as the deaths of thousands of people that take place on a daily basis.
People who are killed by these bombs are innocent and defenceless, especially the women and children. A country that is damaged by bombs has a sick economy. Even development is paralysed. What is left in that country is crisis and great poverty. The economy of the country that was built on people’s sweat disappears within a second after it has been bombed. Therefore the Department of Defence has an important role to play and should face the international challenge, that of passing the law that prevents the use of bombs.
It is quite important that the governments of the world give their people the assurance that they are safe, by passing laws and signing agreements that regulate the use of bombs in a proper manner. We greatly support the attempts by the International Red Cross to campaign for the abolition of anti-personnel mines.
Therefore we as the ANC support this Bill. [Applause.]]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, hon Minister, and hon members, the preceding speakers have dealt comprehensively with the issues at hand. I am not going to repeat everything, but certain things do need to be emphasised.
In the debate on Anti-Personnel Mines, the moral issues have to be at the forefront. You cannot ignore what we have all seen: the destroyed lives, the destroyed and shattered futures, especially of the children, many of whom have been the tragic victims of these weapons.
We also have to note that in developing countries, as the hon Minister pointed out, many of these weapons are placed in agricultural fields, and communities, especially those of subsistence farmers, are thereby robbed of their ability to make a living. These facts have to be brought to the forefront.
I think and I submit, hon Minister, as South Africans, we can all feel justifiably proud that we have signed and acceded to the treaty and that we have brought this Bill to Parliament in the way that we have, as well as the fact that our parastatals and private companies are at the forefront in clearing areas which, in the recent and not so recent past, have been wracked by conflict involving these terrible weapons.
This Bill deserves the unanimous support of all parties in this House and I am pleased to say that the DA supports this Bill. I thank you.
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Hon members, hon Minister, and Chairperson, there is a saying that states: ``Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’’. This is especially the case when that crown is illegitimately acquired. It is usually in such circumstances that some regimes cordon themselves off by means of land mines. This is also the case with some armed bandits in some countries. We have seen that in some countries in Africa.
Surrounding their country with trenches filled with highly inflammable oil did not save Iraq from invasion; neither did the bombing air raids on Iraq by the Bush regime and his accomplices topple Saddam Hussein, but what is absolutely clear is that they lost the greater war. Looting, violence, lawlessness, and loss of economic activity are evidence that the bombs by Bush and company did not win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
The Bill in front of us this afternoon is a practical action to give effect to the Convention on the Prohibition of the Anti-Personnel mines in any of the one-party states, with certain exceptions. Among other issues, the committee deliberated on clause 11 of the Bill. Initially we were concerned, hon Minister, about the participation of our Defence Force in operations, exercises, or any other military activities with armed forces of a state which is not a signatory to the convention.
Some of us were contending that such activities may compromise or even discredit the moral high ground envisaged by this convention. However, we eventually agreed that the participation of our Defence Force in such activities can serve as a practical coercion of those states to seriously appreciate and eventually sign the convention.
In that spirit, hon Minister, I will be really disappointed if countries such as the DRC and others who are involved in conflict are still outside of this convention. Even so, our Defence Force will still need to maintain a very intricate balancing act if it is to remain untainted by its participation in any military activities in a nonsignatory state.
Perhaps we need to take a cue from a slogan of a certain insurance company. The slogan goes like this: ``When your reputation is at stake, integrity bails you out.’’
By approving this piece of legislation in front of us this afternoon, we will be displaying the best character of the greatest movement of all in Africa - that of the ANC. This has been the tradition in the ANC. Even during the difficult times of the armed struggle, their leadership would make the point that, despite their own destitute state of deprivation and oppression, they would support other suffering people on the continent and everywhere else in the world. We, therefore, support this Bill entirely. Thank you. [Applause.]
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much. I must immediately express my gratitude for the observations and contributions the members have made.
I am happy that the House has drawn our attention to section 11. It says that the Department of Defence may participate in operations, exercises, or other military activities with the armed forces of a state that is not a party to the convention. I’m looking at subsection 2. If such a contravention occurs, the Minister must order the termination of any further involvement in the operation, exercise, or activity in question. Now, that is too peremptory. At any time that we are interacting with another country in military exercises, and so on, there would ordinarily be an existing memorandum of understanding for these countries to co-operate, to strengthen their relations, and so on. If it was to be found that there was a contravention of one of the other laws of the country, I think we would not want to start by terminating the exercise.
We would want to start by searching for ways of correcting the other party. And only if there was a point of no agreement would we then say well, here is a parting of the ways because the law of our land is as follows.
So I’m happy to accept the suggestion from the House that if such a
contravention occurs, the Minister may - instead of must'' - order the
termination of any further involvement in the operation or exercise or
activity in question. He may do so. There is a lot of writing that has been
done here. The second part, I thought, should read: or must take such
action, other than these options which are here.’’ It is appropriate that
the Minister be given the right or the power to take any other action that
is not suggested here. So we should retain it to say activity in
question'' ormust take such appropriate action as he or she may deem
necessary’’. In that way, I think that that will improve it and I accept
that perhaps, in the adoption, in the declarations in the House, adopt it
in that form. Madam Chair, we would be happy about that.
Now I have already thanked the House for various other observations which have been made and I do need to say, before I end my comments, that South Africa is playing a critical role on the continent and around the world. We are setting the pace in various aspects. In this area of the Mines Ban Treaty, persuading other countries to fall in line with multilateral treaties, we carry the responsibility to provide ongoing leadership. I think it is important that we take note of the countries that have not as yet ratified the treaty. In our bilateral relations, in our engagement with them in various fora, whether it’s the Non-Aligned Movement or the African Union and so on, we engage them and we place pressure on them and reason with them about why it is vital for them to come on board to ratify these treaties reached under the United Nations. Here, too, apart from our own ratification, we have an international task to continue to engage these 97 countries, with a view to persuading them to fall in line.
I can promise members here that when we are in executive functions, we will be doing this. There are also interactions where members of the House in committees visit other countries, and in the discussions that go on there, it’s critical that, there too, members identify issues of this nature. In their interactions with their counterparts, visiting committees and so on, they should raise these issues and express them with the South African spirit and attitude on these questions.
I know that the Chief Whip has advised me that I’ve got another hour in which to address you but, as I’ve said before, I know that I’m not compelled to speak for an hour. I will therefore terminate my comments here. I thank you. [Applause].
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill, subject to the proposed amendments by the committee be agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson with respect, you haven’t given the parties an opportunity to make a declaration, given what the hon Minister has said. We would like to commend him for his quickness of mind. I think a statement would be appropriate and, if permission is granted, could I, on behalf of the ANC, make such a statement? Do I have your permission? Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Chairperson, I agree and concur fully with the hon Minister for his drawing the attention of this House to the inconsistency in terms of the way in which this clause is set out.
I certainly support the proposal, but may I just suggest a slight amendment
to the proposal in terms of line 35. We should be grateful for the
technology we have before us which allows us to look at the provision and
the words that must be omitted, as suggested by the hon Minister. In line
36, rather than including the word must'', delete the word may’’. So
you simply state, if I could read it for the benefit of the House:
If such contravention occurs, the Minister may order the termination of any further involvement in the operation, exercise or activity in question, or take such other appropriate action, as he/she may deem necessary.
It would have exactly the same effect. I also propose, Chairperson, that under the circumstances, the proposed amendment with the suggestion of the hon Minister be conveyed to the other House by this Council in order for attention to be drawn to the important comments that have been made by the hon Minister. I thank you, Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you very much, Chief Whip. The Rules of this House do allow members of the select committee to make such amendments to the portfolio committee. Maybe it is the role of the Select Committee to recommend that, on behalf of this Council, to our counterparts in the National Assembly but at the moment we will pass the Bill as amended. Mr Matthee, I saw your hand.
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, may I be allowed, on behalf of the New National Party, to make a declaration? I would then like to say that I’m in full agreement with the Chief Whip, as the amendment that he has proposed takes care of exactly what I set out in my speech. It is just put in another way but it is exactly the same. So, the NNP would agree to that.
Prince B Z ZULU: Thank you, Chairperson. I’m rising to indicate that we do not have any problems in terms of the amendments that have to be effected, provided that those amendments actually do not fundamentally change the entire intention of the Bill. Thanks.
Mr L G LEVER: Chair, in the committee, it was pointed out that the
difficulty with the original formulation of this subclause was that the
must'' contradicted with the discretion that was given to the Minister in
the later phrase in that subclause. So the original proposal was that we
should change thatmust’’ to ``may’’, and I’m in full agreement with the
Chief Whip’s proposal.
I do also express sympathy with the view expressed by the hon Mkhaliphi
that if we are heading for this type of thing, morally, we would like to be
seen as sticking to our guns. But still, I do understand the point and am
willing to concede the point, hon Minister, in that manner.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you very much, Mr Lever. I think what has to happen is that, as the declarations have been made, the Committee still has the right to deal with the Bill and amend it, and make proposals to the portfolio committee in the National Assembly.
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, the committee has drafted this new formulation. What we are hearing now are just changes in semantics, but we have done the proposals already and it is already with our colleagues on the other side. I rest my case.
Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 17:55.