National Council of Provinces - 12 June 2003
THURSDAY, 12 JUNE 2003
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 14:09.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
POSTHUMOUS RECOGNITION OF SPORT HEROES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chair, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that - (a) Sarfu has honoured a hero of yesteryear, the late Mr Grant Khomo, who played for the first black Springbok team in a match against a coloured Springbok team;
(b) Sarfu has launched a new U-16 tournament on similar lines as the
Coca-Cola Craven Week; and
(c) Mr Khomo was also a national tennis champion and excelled in
both cricket and soccer; and
(2) welcomes this posthumous recognition as a building block towards bringing unity in rugby and sport in general.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PRESIDENT COMMENDED FOR WORK DONE AT G8 SUMMIT
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that, since the G8 Summit, 30% of Nepad’s priority projects are being implemented;
(2) further notes that 18 capacity-building projects, 24 of 52 facilitation projects, 8 of 36 investment projects and 3 of 18 studies on the short-term action-plan are being implemented;
(3) believes that it was through hard work and sweat by the Presidents of South Africa, Nigeria, Senegal and Algeria and African leaders as a collective that Nepad is at the stage of implementation; and
(4) therefore commends our President and his counterparts for the outstanding work done.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
LIBERIAN PRESIDENT APPLAUDED
(Draft Resolution) Mr D M KGWARE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes and applauds the agreement between Liberia’s president and the rebel forces to halt hostilities and thereby pave the way for peace talks;
(2) further notes that this is as a result of intervention by the African Union to bring about a peaceful resolution to the hostilities in Liberia;
(3) believes that this offers a glimmer of hope to Liberians fleeing the conflict;
(4) further believes that this intervention by African leaders as a collective is a clear indication that Africa can resolve its own problems; and
(5) therefore congratulates the AU on this achievement.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MASS DECIMATION OF OUR FLORA AND FAUNA
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its grave concern at the mass decimation of our flora and fauna and indigenous animals by tourists from Europe, Canada and especially the United States;
(2) notes that -
(a) for a few dollars they shoot down these animals, only to hang
their heads as prizes in their homes overseas;
(b) these animals take years to grow old, just to be shot and killed
for fun rather than for need;
(c) in today's Business Day it is stated that last year alone, more
than 14 000 animals were killed in hunting grounds of Limpopo;
(d) if we add up these killings that occur in the Free State, the
Eastern Cape and many other provinces, it becomes clear that we
have allowed an enormous wanton destruction and loss in a short
space of time while we are in Government; and
(e) Europe has no more original lions and elephants and now they are
finishing off our remaining and dwindling numbers of fowl, flora
and fauna;
(3) urges tourists to shoot with cameras rather than with bullets that kill and destroy; and
(4) believes that -
(a) the practice of accepting blood money from tourists needs to be
reviewed;
(b) tourism should promote survival of the species and the future of
our motherland; and
(c) money is not everything - God has called on us as people to be
stewards of all creation.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
OPPOSITION TO MIDDLE EAST PEACE INITIATIVE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern recent development in the Middle East in which 26 people died as a result of attempts to kill the Hamas leader on Tuesday;
(2) further notes that the attempts to assassinate the Hamas leader and the suicide vengeance bombing on Wednesday put the initiative relating to the proposed “road map” for the Middle East in jeopardy;
(3) believes that there are people opposed to the “road map” who will do everything in their power to destabilise this initiative;
(4) further believes that an end to the conflict can be brought about through peaceful means; (5) calls upon all peace-loving citizens in the Middle East, especially in Israel and Palestine, not to be dissuaded by certain elements in their resolve for peace; and
(6) further calls upon all those involved in conflict to desist from any further attacks and give peaceful initiatives a chance.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PRESIDENT MBEKI AT THE ILO IN GENEVA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that yesterday President Thabo Mbeki addressed the International Labour Organisation in Geneva; (2) also notes the historic contribution that he has made and comments by participants who remarked that “such veneration was only received by speakers such as Martin Luther King”;
(3) further notes comments by another participant that “over the decade of my participation I have never heard such an inspiring speech”;
(4) recognises that President Thabo Mbeki has again placed poverty, reconstruction and development of Africa on the agenda of this important forum; and
(5) commends the President for his unwavering commitment to the resolution of the plight of the Africans and his appeal for the shared responsibility of all stakeholders in pushing back the frontiers of poverty.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
HUMAN RIGHTS OF PARLIAMENTARIANS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move that the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper be adopted.
That the Council -
(1) notes the report of the Inter-Parliamentary Union’s (IPU) Committee on Human Rights of Parliamentarians;
(2) further notes that, according to the report, the members in the countries listed below have either been imprisoned, tortured, or murdered;
(3) calls upon the affected Parliaments to engage their respective authorities to ensure the speedy and just resolution of the plight of these members; and (4) resolves that the IPU’s report on Human Rights of Parliamentarians be referred to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs to follow up the issue:
Country Name
1.Belarus Andrei Klomov; Victor Gonchar
2.Burundi S Mfayokurera; I Ndikumana; G Gahungu; L Ntamutumba;
P Sirahenda; G Gisabwamana; N Ndihokubwayo
3.Cambodia Chhang Song; Siphan Phay; Pou Savath
4.Colombia Pedro Nel Jiménez Obando; Leonardo Posada Pedraza;
Octavio Vargas Cuéllar; Predro Luis Valencia;
Bernado Jaramillo Ossa; Manuel Cepeda Vargas;
Hernán Motta Motta; Piedad Córdoba; Oscar
Lizcano; J. Eduardo Gechen Turbay; Luis Eladio
Pérez Bonilla; Orlando Beltrán Cuéllar;Gloria
Polanco de Lozada; C. González de Perdomo
5.Ecuador Jaime Ricarurte Hurtado; Pablo Vincente Tapia
Farinango
6.Gambia Lamin waa Juwara; Omar Jallow
7.Honduras Miguel Angel Pavón Salazar
8.Indonesia Tengku Nashiruddin Daud
9.Madagascar Jean Eugene Voninahitsy
10.Malaysia Anwar Ibrahim
11.Mongolia Zorig Sanjasuuren
12.Myanmar Ohn Kyaing; Khin Maung Swe; Sein Hla Oo; Saw Naing
Naing; Myint Naing Zaw Myint Maung; Kyaw San;
Khun Myint Tun; Do Htaung; Kyaw Khin; Than
Nyein; May Win Myint; Min Soe Lin; Ohn Maung;
Yaw His; Min Kyi Win; Toe Po; Soe Myint
13.Pakistan Asif Ali Zardari
14.Rwanda Eustache Nkerinka; Jacques Maniraguha; Jean-Léonard
Bizimana; Joseph Sebarenzi Kabuye
15.Turkey Leyla Zana; Sedat Yurtdas; Hatip Dicle; Zubeyir
Aydar; Mahmut Alinak; Ahmet Turk; Sirri Sakik;
Orhan Dogan; Selim Sadak; Nizamettin Toguc;
Mehmet Sincar; Mahmut Kilinc; Naif Gunes; Ali
Yigit; Remzi Kartal
16.Zimbabwe Justin Mutendadzamera; Fletcher Dulini-Ncube; David
Mpala; Abednico Bhebhe; Peter Nyoni; David
Coltart; Moses Mzila Ndlovu.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes.
Are all the delegation heads present? Yes, they are. In accordance with rule 71.1 of the Rules, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration of votes if they so wish. Are there any? None. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from the voting.
Eastern Cape?
Mrs B N DLULANE: Thank you. The Eastern Cape supports the motion.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Eastern Cape supports. Free State?
Rev M CHABAKU: The Free State supports the motion.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State supports. Gauteng?
Ms J L KGOALI: Gauteng supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng supports. KwaZulu-Natal? Mrs J N VILAKAZI: KwaZulu-Natal supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal supports twice. Limpopo?
Mr M I MAKOELA: Limpopo e a oa mogela. [Limpopo accepts.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): E a oa mogela. [Accepts.] Mpumalanga?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: IMpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Iyawusekela. [It supports.] Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape e a dumela. [Northern Cape agrees.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): E a dumela. [Agrees.] North-West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: E a rona. [Agrees.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): E a rona. Western Cape?
Mr A C ACKERMANN: Ons gaan akkoord. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Akkoord. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
We now come to the second motion on the Order Paper as printed in the name of the Chief Whip.
REPORT OF THE AD HOC JOINT COMMITTEE ON REPARATIONS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move:
That, subject to the concurrence of the National Assembly, and notwithstanding the joint decision by the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces and the Speaker of the National Assembly that was ratified by the Council on 13 May 2003 (see Minutes of Proceedings, p 350), the date by which the Ad Hoc Joint Committee on Reparations has to submit a report to both Houses, be extended to 25 June 2003.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to, as the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are they all here? They’re are all here.
I will now, according to rule 71, allow the provinces an opportunity to make a declaration if they wish to do so. Is there any province that wishes to give a declaration? None. We shall therefore proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate in their Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: I-Eastern Cape iyaxhasa. [Eastern Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Iyawuxhasa. [It supports it.] Free State?
Mr T S SETONA: Free State votes in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): In favour. Gauteng?
Mrs J N KGOALI: Gauteng supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng supports. KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavuma. [We agree.]
DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Siyavuma. [We agree.] Limpopo?
Mr M I MAKOELA: Ri khou tendelana. [We agree.]
The CHAIRPERSON: E, ke kwile. [Yes, I heard.] [Laughter.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: IMpumalanga iyasekela, wena wekunene. [Mpumalanga supports, Sir.]
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape stem saam. [Northern Cape agrees.]
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North-West votes in favour.
Mr C ACKERMANN: Ons gaan akkoord. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mnr M J Mahlangu): Ons gaan akkoord. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy Debate)
Debate on Vote No 10 - Public Service and Administration.
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Deputy Chairperson and members of this august House, we as this House, as Parliament, gather today to review the budget vote of the Public Service and Administration that covers three votes: the Department of Public Service and Administration, the SA Management Development Institute and the State Information Technology Agency. It also covers quite a basket and a grouping of dynamic institutions. There are two, in addition to those that I mentioned, in line with the budget vote. It is the Centre for Public Service Innovation, as well as the Independent Public Service Commission which is a Chapter 10 institution.
For me it has been a great honour over the period of the past four, moving on to five years, to work with these five dynamic institutions. The Department of Public Service and Administration plays a policy-development role, and produces an impressive volume of quality work that successfully addresses pertinent and important issues in the area of public service and administration.
The SA Management Development Institute is becoming increasingly important in developing and building public service skills and capacity, but it is also important to note that they have a role to play in the region and globally, to not only see themselves as a service provider in terms of training, but also to assist in the development of thinking of the Human Resource Development Trust in terms of needs in the public service and obviously impacting on the economy as a whole.
The Centre for Public Service Innovation is a leading centre for thoughtful and creative solutions, as well as ideas on public service improvement, and I will reflect on this in my input this afternoon.
The State Information Agency is well set effectively to integrate and co- ordinate Government information systems, whilst, on the other hand, the Public Service Commission has grown impressively into its role of monitoring and evaluating the Public Service, as well as promoting a very high level of professional ethics in the Public Service and undertaking quite detailed investigations.
As we look at this today, I want us to do so against the background of a message raised by the President in his state of the nation address when he told us that with regard to changing the lives of South Africans, and building relations of human solidarity with peoples of the world, the tide has turned. He said that our task was to take this tide at the flood, further to progress towards the achievement of the goals for which so many of our people sacrificed. I know that for many in this House today, both in the benches of the NCOP and those in the gallery, this is not a mere academic exercise, but a reality in terms of what you have lived through and experienced as South African people and as peoples of the world and of our region.
I want to very quickly look at the issue of restructuring for effectiveness, restructuring our public service into a kind of people- centred delivery vehicle, Batho Pele, and how we make that a reality. On stating that, I am immediately going to go into the fact that I would assume that the past will be something that we consider as we look at this debate today. We should acknowledge that our restructuring efforts are still incomplete, and that remaining challenges were concentrated in the areas of, firstly, the distribution and redistribution of our most valuable and valued assets in the Public Service, our people.
Firstly, are they geographically spread in a manner that will allow us to support those that were the most historically disadvantaged, in order to ensure that they now access quality services? Are our public servants adequately concentrated in those sectors that are prioritised in our acceptance of the role of the developmental stat, and our vision of that particular development?
Secondly, skills must be matched with competencies. We have inherited some historically, and some we brought on board during the past ten years.Do we have the particular skills demanded from public servants working in South Africa at the beginning of the 21st century? To put it bluntly, do we have on board what it will take to take us through the challenges ahead, and if not, what do we intend doing about that?
It is important that public servants are deployed where they are most needed, and can have the biggest impact. I will identify the most pertinent areas. Social services sectors should be prioritised and whilst most public servants are employed in the social service sector, in some provinces, a disproportionate number of staff are deployed elsewhere. I raised this yesterday, and I will specifically raise it in this House today. For example, whilst Gauteng and the Western Cape employ 6,1% and 7% of their staff respectively in the nonsocial services sector, Limpopo province has 23,6% of its staff in the nonsocial services sector. We believe that such inconsistency must be reviewed and this has been taken on board as we deal with the restructuring of the public service. That tool and mechanism is being utilised to deepen the broader transformation of the public service sector.
We all acknowledge that transformation is not a one-year project, and it cannot be a five-year project. But, as we tackle this project of making a change of this colossus machinery, we need to ensure that those short-term interventions that are required are appropriate to exactly effect that.
Provinces now comprise of around 70% of the public service in terms of the number of people they employ. Yet, they only employ 40% of the total of senior managers in Government, nationally and provincially. This suggests that the provinces lack management capacity, though national departments generally address issues that require a higher level of skill, and thus more senior staff. We are increasingly aware of the need to support provincial managers in their work. Provincial departments also tend to be larger than national departments, and as a result of their size, they tend to find it difficult to plan the use of their human and financial resources effectively.
Generally, the poorer province tends to employ excessively low-skilled workers, many of whom are not needed. As a result of this legacy, the supernumerary phenomenon or excess public servants, are found in the public service in the provinces. We can look at Limpopo province as a case in point. In the late eighties, thousands of drought-relief workers were appointed on contract basis. Between 1991 and 1993, in a very expedient way, those contract workers were employed as permanent workers. They had very low skills levels, and no clear functions. At this point in time, that province, in the Departments of Agriculture and of Public Works, are stuck with those numbers.
We need to do something about it, because we cannot retain those in the public service who are not skilled to take forward the challenges required in order to meet the needs of people first, and to effect the service delivery that all of you in this House require.
In the restructuring to address these problems, we generated a shared vision of the kind of developmental and participatory public service we want in future. For example Public Service commission research shows that most of the national and provincial departments incorporated programmes that were aimed at poverty alleviation, and very clearly looking at national priorities of the country.
Let me quickly refer to the personnel expenditure review. I have reflected on the need to deploy public servants in those areas and meeting the critical skills required in those areas, and I won’t reflect on that. But, let me immediately zoom in on Resolution 7, a resolution that tends to be much misunderstood, and which is sometimes used in political game playing, where there is deliberate misinterpretation of this. The resolution itself, an agreement reached between employer and trade unions, is one that looks at the transformation and restructuring of the Public Service. Its emphasis is on the appropriate and effective placement and utilisation of human resources. It provides mechanisms for matching human resources requirements to service delivery needs in order to ensure that we have optimal service delivery.
Secondly, it is also for the redeployment of personnel from departments where their skills are the least needed to where they would be optimally utilised. I believe that every public servant would want to work in an area that matches their skills needs, and where they can be best utilised. It is also for the retraining of personnel and the exploration of alternative employment opportunities for those personnel who have been declared in excess, and for compliance with national employment legislation. Essentially, we are envisaging that it will resolve the problem of inappropriate deployment of staff, while increasing productivity and ensuring the delivery of better quality services. We also believe that it will assist us in identifying the skills gaps in the public service. It will no longer be a theory or a perception upon which our ideas of where we believe the scarce skills are based, but will now, through this process, be able to state that finally we know where the gaps are.
Let me, very quickly, make one last point on this. The Department for the Public Service and Administration can actually provide support that includes the identification and payment of human resource and organisational development specialists, that will assist departments, where required, with the finalisation and the alignment of management plans and organisational structures. We will also assist in cases where grievances have been lodged in connection with the process, and we have encouraged public servants who may not be quite satisfied or clear with the process, to actually approach the management in their departments to get explanations for that.
Let me look at integration at many levels and the improved strategic and financial management in most provinces. Over the last few years, provinces have generally improved their strategic and financial management performance. The total national budget for 2003-04 is around R334 billion, including death service costs. Of this, the provinces received the greatest allocation - R159 billion or just less than 57%. This is about 96% of the provincial revenues. National Government, received 38,9%. This clearly shows that enhancing provincial effectiveness is absolutely crucial if social and economic development initiatives are to have their desired effects in the longer term.
Carefully sequenced budget reform has led to improved planning, enhanced transparency and accountability and better service delivery. Three year budgets, along with the Public Finance Management Act, created institutional mechanisms and dynamism that require and encourage better management. I will then go on and briefly touch on integrating service delivery and the issue, and I will refer to this in passing, of a single Public Service. Yesterday I have mentioned that we have been considering the creation of a single coherent Public Service, and while we have achieved much in this regard, we still have much more to do.
Our decade in Government has shown and taught us that improving management in a single department will deliver some results, but the multi- institutional integrated improvements will be the most likely to lead to sustained service delivery, because the public service and departments within it cannot operate as if they were separate projects. Its like a machinery that has to deliver services that gives effect to the developmental state. In my ministry, and our associated organisations, we are committed to ensuring that our structures are based on functions and strategy.
Citizens need one-stop value-adding interactions with Government. They also need such an interaction were there shouldn’t be any door that is the wrong one. We should ensure that they are not sent from pillar to post when trying to access services. There are examples of such one stop service - Galishewe in the Northern Cape comes to mind as I think of that, and there are many others. The Centre for Public Service Innovation is helping us to think about integration in terms of what is required by policy, structure, systems and staffing.
Let me go to the integrated provincial support project. I am just going to highlight some projects, because we don’t have much time this afternoon. Let me start with the Eastern Cape very quickly, and just state that one of the projects that this flagship has done in that province, has been the updating of human resource records in the Eastern Cape. All of us have heard of stacks of files in offices in the Eastern Cape. We know that the importance of well-kept basic administrative records is unquestionable when it comes to running organisations effectively. And hence, there has been work to improve the file management in the social grants sections of the Eastern Cape department of welfare and social development.
Through this process, we have seen a complete review of the management of 1,81 million beneficiary files in the process of creating an automated system and managing to clear all backlogs in social grants applications. Clearly, the file management system will not on their own solve other deep- rooted organisational problems. But what this project has done is to give some hope to beneficiaries, and to create a platform for further work that the interim management team, that is currently working in the Eastern Cape, is doing work on.
I want to reflect on the Limpopo province very quickly. In terms of that province, I want to reflect on two projects that this particular programme is working on. We believe that enough work has been done to plan for the turnaround of the Letaba and the Maphutha-Malatji hospitals in Limpopo. Focus will now be on the implementation of the plans. The support of the integrated provincial support team, in this regard, has been aligned to the Department of Health’s hospital revitalisation programme. These, together with other initiatives of the provincial administration, are creating a critical force for service delivery excellence.
Having acted personally with key role-players, in these hospitals recently, I want to isolate the CEO of one hospital, Dr Rajpal, I think, who has been leading the process at the Letaba Hospital. There is another supervisor, and the other one I am not going to mention his name, because I don’t want to make a mistake with the surname. I am sensitive when people mispronounce ``Moleketi’’, so I don’t want to mispronounce others’ surnames. Anyway, interacting with these role-players, I am convinced that they requisite momentum has been generated to take the tide at the flood.
The predominant attitude at the hospitals is that of working together to revitalise Batho Pele. It is a spirit that recognises that challenges and constraints exist, but at least should nonetheless not derail people from the noble path of striving towards better health care for the public.
Still in the Limpopo province, a lot of work has been done regarding the transformation and reorientation of facilities inherited from the previous government, focusing especially on sisal and commercial agricultural facilities. Some of these facilities where not sustainable from their very inception, and didn’t benefit local communities at all.
With the IPSP support, the province is now implementing a model that largely involves a social contract between local communities, labour and private equity partners. By implementing this model, the Zebediela Citrus Estate, and think all of us know of Zebediela, at least from our school days, has seen a sharp increase in productivity, to appoint where the current rate of harvesting is estimated at 10 000 bags of citrus fruit a day.
Let me jump to the work of the provinces in the area of ICT. I have spoken about the role of Sita. The State Information Technology Agency has had the IT acquisition centre in place for one year. I believe that the acquisition centre is not working as well as it should. It has made a start and has managed to successfully adjudicate tenders worth R2,9 billion, but they have not always met the targeted turnaround time of 45 days, much as they have learnt many lessons. The Sita board, under the Chairpersonship of Zodwa Manase, must ensure that the turn around times are met, and that I- tech does what is required for Government. We are obviously going to take that forward. I recently initiated an investigation into to the awarding of tenders and other irregularities at Sita. These enquiries are part of our commitment as a Government, to accountability and transparency. We didn’t need nudging from anyone. We looked at it because we felt that it needed to be looked at, and there is a course of action that has been dealt with.
The regulations to ensure that the provisions of the amendment of the Sita Act is to be put in place, must be finalised. This will ensure that all acquisitions are based on real needs and are done fairly and cost- effectively. I want to reflect on two provinces in terms of the ICT staff. I will start with the Free State. The Free State has the geographic information system that is being developed to eliminate duplicate spending on related geographic information. They are putting in place the central repository of geographically linked business information available in provincial departments. The best status has been initiated, and the project is due for completion at the end of August 2003. This will cost in the region of half a million rands initially.
In the Gauteng province, the provincial government has established a Gauteng Shared Services Centre. This is to streamlime all support functions across the 12 provincial departments. I know that the hon members of this House, from the Gauteng province, are aware that the shared services budget is being debated today. The functions of the shared services include the elements of human resource and financial management, as well as procurement, internal audit and technology services.
The North West department of finance, on the other hand, has initiated a number of projects, including the master systems plans, the installation of the debt collection system, a configuration of management policy, a wide area network upgrade and a web-based information system. These projects involve an involvement an investment of approximately R10 million. This information and data comes from the Government Information Technology Offices Council. They set and consist of information offices from across Government departments.
I would like to conclude by speaking about our anticorruption work. Our anticorruption work extends to regional and international co-operation. It takes place within SADC, the African Union and internationally. The DPSA has for the past year, assisted the government of South Korea to organise and host the global forum three on fighting corruption and safe-guarding integrity, a premier global gathering on governments fighting corruption. The global forum was held at the end of last month, and it was a huge success. I am sure there may be one or two minutes left to speak about professionalism, regardless of rank. The public service is characterised by a commitment to operating professionally. In doing so, our human resource development framework seeks to establish an effective and efficient internship programme to bridge the gap between academic study and competent performance in the workplace. It offers structured internship opportunities to students and unemployed youth to gain practical work experience for a maximum of twelve months. We have made a commitment that about 5% of departments complements should constitute interns. We also have a major thrust on learnerships, but I am not going to bore you with that right now.
Let me just talk quickly about the senior managers in Government, and mention the fact that we focused on building a solid layer there. We have distinguished this particular group, and we have now completed the competency framework for the senior managers and are now well advanced in translating this into a developing programme for senior managers that will allow us to co-ordinate and encourage skills development and assist with recruitment and retention of senior managers.
I would really wrong this House if I don’t refer to a specific initiative by some Samdi, and that is that Samdi will play a clear role in ensuring that public servants have a broad span of skills and knowledge that relates not only to their core business, but also to management and supervision. This is especially to true in a public service context that takes the rights of employers seriously, and which encourages a developmental approach. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! Thank you, Minister. We did give you an additional two minutes to conclude. [Laughter.]
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and guests, the tide has indeed turned in the management and employment practices in the Public Service. The notion that Government provided secure employment to people who were unskilled, unmotivated and unaccountable is gone forever. The turning of the tide has been so dramatic that the private sector is no longer the sole custodian of good practice when it comes to service delivery. If anything, it has to take a cue from the Public Service.
It has been the case, for instance, when the captains of industry realised that corporate governance, as one of their crucial tools to enforce accountability, was sometimes hollow and blunt. The innovations in the Public Service were made through the interwoven, yet programme-specific, roles of the institutions supporting the Department of Public Service and Administration.
It is only a government that has imbibed democracy and freedom in its bowels and marrow that foresees an inherent probability of governance or administration stagnation, and takes the necessary steps to put in place checks and balances in partnership with the citizenry.
Our interactions with the Public Service Commission, SA Management Development Institute and the State Information Technology Agency, as well as the Seta in the Public Service, reveal that the office bearers and staff are not only in line, in some respect, with their respective mandates, but are always planning ahead, innovating and actually walking the extra mile, often far beyond their mandates.
The minority of public servants who still displays a somewhat lacklustre approach in service rendering, causes one to wonder why they are not influenced positively by the exciting spirit prevailing in the public sector. Some of these officials are those who narrow-mindedly cling to the confines of a job description. Transformation entails, inter alia, embracing, elaborating and innovation in implementing the stipulations of the statutes I mentioned. I’m sure these officers will heed the call by the Minister of Finance - ``to do the right thing and leave the Public Service’’.
As we proceed to make headway in the Public Service through service delivery improvement, the integrated human resources programme, the anticorruption campaigns, initiatives and recommendations by the institutions within the DPSA, Regulation 7 and other mechanisms, we unfortunately still have to look over our shoulders if those few mundane officials are still in the Public Service.
Transformation cannot be sufficiently stipulated in the Public Service Act, neither in the Code of Conduct for Public Servants, nor in the departmental handbooks, and also not in the Bill of Rights enshrined in our Constitution.
It pains one to be told by an official, for instance of Home Affairs, that they are not adhering to Batho Pele principles. It undermines one’s pride in the Public Service when one comes across officials basking in the sun while starving mothers are not assisted with their maintenance moneys. However, we are relieved to know that drastic action has been taken against those officials by the Department of Justice. We are, surely, not in the business of hiring and firing, but we have a responsibility to the public at large to uphold a high level of service delivery.
Since national Government delegates some of its functions to local government, the issue regarding conditions of service, as raised by the hon Minister, becomes a crucial factor in maintaining service delivery norms and standards. We are happy to note that remarkable headway is being made in this regard.
The additional responsibility on the department, as arising from South Africa’s role in the Nepad, as well as the African Union, will enable the department to share our initiatives and insights on public management with our neighbours in the SADC region, the rest of the African continent and the world at large. We stand taller than before, thanks to your leadership and input in this regard, hon Minister.
The good work achieved in the public sector is somewhat muddied by the scourge of corruption. We take note, however, of the various mechanisms to prevent and deal with this cancer whenever it arises, particularly the report by the Public Service Commission on blacklisting. We are challenged to transcend the recommendations of the PSC in this regard to local government in order to assist in addressing the challenges facing that sphere of government.
The circumstances leading to the appointment of the interim management team could best be described as a bursting of a festering abscess emanating from the wounds of apartheid. It is not only confined to the Eastern Cape, but extends to some other areas of our country as well, which had to endure the yoke of the former TVBC states. We are relieved, however, to note the good lessons and initiatives that will be used in other areas, as has been highlighted by the interim management team.
We hereby voice our gratitude and appreciation to the institutions supporting the DPSA for their kind co-operation and support, and I’m tempted to name them, but seeing that they are so numerous I dare not do that now. Indeed, these men and women are always eager to enable us to fulfil our role while not neglecting their own roles. We thank you most heartily for your commitment.
We still need to point out that with the department itself, there is no cause for concern whatsoever, except the need to tighten a few nuts and bolts here and there, then we will be going faster. We also wish to highlight the department’s sterling work in maintaining peace and stability in public sector labour relations. We believe that the tranquil atmosphere prevailing now augurs well for the ironing out of the remaining issues in the labour relations field.
Let us allow this department to proceed with the process of transformation by supporting this Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr Y GABRU (Western Cape): Thank you, Mr Deputy Chairperson. Madam Minister, it’s an honour and a privilege to take part in this debate this afternoon. I want to raise an issue in relation to the restructuring of the Civil Service. I’m doing this a bit reluctantly, because I can imagine there must be hundreds of people who have come to you to plead a special case for some group of workers. But I want to plead a special case here this afternoon. I realise full well that everywhere you go there must be people who plead with you to look at a particular case.
My understanding is that Resolution 7 of 2002 has two phases, and that the first phase comes to an end at the end of June. There after, in phase 2, there will be continued negotiations about it.
The issue I want to raise concerns my own constituency, the Western Cape education department. In that department there are 1 023 noneducators who have been declared in excess. Seventy percent of them come from rural areas: Worcester, Beaufort West, and in some cases very small places, like Noupoort. If anybody knows anything about it, they will know that it’s a very small town.
I would imagine that in many parts of the country there are these small towns. But there are some small towns in the Karoo where the only employer in town is the Western Cape education department. There are many of these small towns, such as Murraysburg. Of these workers that I’ve mentioned, 30% come from the category we call household aids, which in effect means that they are not very well paid either. I would be surprised if they took home more than R1 500 a month.
Quite often in these towns, there are very few other employment opportunities. In some of the towns, given the fact that it’s only the educational institution, maybe the hostel, that employed them, even retraining is not going to do a lot for them to get employment in that particular town. I spoke with some of the officials in our department yesterday, and they told to me that in some of the areas you could have a huge impact on the social structure of the town if 10 or 20 people were to lose their jobs, because sometimes it would be difficult to redeploy them.
I was wondering, Madam Minister, if, when we were looking at second phase negotiations, we couldn’t look at these kinds of issues in a little more detail. Is it not possible to work out what the cost of continued employment will be in some of these cases, compared to that of redeployment, etc? My understanding is that, according to Resolution 7, there is going to be a once-off payment of R25 000 if you are retrenched, and there is other funding being made available for retraining. I wondered how much more it would cost to keep people in these jobs, in stead of redeploying them.
I said that I brought this issue to the table reluctantly, because I’m absolutely sure, and the Minister has mentioned some of these cases in her speech, that there must be lots of these issues all over the country. But be that as it may, I wonder if, when we are looking at phase two, we can’t look at the smaller towns in the rural areas where educational institutions, or other government institutions, are the only and major employer in such an area.
The second issue that I want to bring to the table again concerns my constituency, the education area. I wondered if the Minister couldn’t raise the issue again with the Minister of Education. A lot of people have made a big issue and complained about the fact that we want to take away powers from school governing bodies. But I want to raise an issue here to show just how difficult it is to do some restructuring.
In the Southern Suburbs where, you will all be aware, there are schools that are, to put it mildly, reasonably privileged in relation to other schools, there are some schools where they have 17 cleaners. Eleven of them have to be redeployed. They are in excess. I have absolutely no problem with that.
They have, however, to be redeployed to places like Grassy Park and Khayelitsha. What’s happening in those areas, is that the governing bodies are refusing to accept them, because they have already employed other people on contract labour. Now, the department, and I must say that it’s not often that I have sympathy for these departments, especially the one in the Western Cape, but the department is now caught in a bind. It doesn’t know what to do. It can’t redeploy them, because the governing bodies won’t accept them. It seems to me that we have to begin by looking at the power that they have to refuse to take redeployed noneducators, so that the department can give effect to the redeployment.
In the last minute or two, I want take the opportunity, once again, to congratulate the Minister and her staff for the excellent work that the department does. What really impresses more than anything else, is the whole question about public finance management on line. I think it’s an absolutely excellent project, and I was just wondering and hoping that maybe the Minister could extend this to Members of Parliament, so that they could also learn a bit more about finance on line. I thank you. Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you, Chairperson. When people are at work, they expect good results. Any employer expects his or her employees to do all they can to improve production. In government service, public servants are a mirror of that particular government. A person’s face is like a book - you can read happiness or anger.
In my province, Limpopo, we had to integrate four different administrations, that is the former Lebowa, Gazankulu, Venda and the then TPA (Transvaal Provincial Administration). It was not easy, but we can now proudly say: We have arrived!
Integrating the four administrations, we had to deal with people from different backgrounds. Some felt the new Government was expecting miracles from them. Some went on to say the new Government was abusing them. They were saying all those things, because they were not used to the Batho Pele principle. Those who were not prepared to adapt had to jump before they were pushed off, but the majority of them are now doing the right thing. When you visit our government offices it is easy to detect if you are welcome, or if you are a sort of inconvenience.
We are not going to treat everybody alike. We want to thank those many public servants who are leaving no stone unturned in making sure our people get a better service. We know those kind of officials are in the majority. They are supportive, proactive, effective and positive. They are prepared to walk that extra mile and to even work overtime. Please note that what you are doing will not go unnoticed.
However, the same cannot be said of public servants who will give you the necessary attention because of your standing or position in the community, those who will give you their unqualified support or service because you are good-looking, but who are not prepared to give service to our old men and women, because they look dirty. Those are the kind of public servants who tell our mothers and fathers to go and wash their hands before they can serve them, these types of officials or public servants have no place in our Government. The sooner they leave the service, the better. Another concern is corrupt officials, as rightly and correctly put by the hon Minister. They are not even ashamed to loot our senior citizens. They like harvesting where they did not sow. A public servant, who earns no less than R4 000 a month, would without thinking twice take a mere R700 from an old age pensioner. How unscrupulous are those public servants who would steal the mere R120 earmarked for a child support grant, and think of those unscrupulous public servants who are prepared to steal the mere R300 a mother should receive for the maintenance of her children. It is a shame. [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, these officials are so cunning, they will go to the extent of using another type of fingerprint that cannot easily be traced by any detective or investigator. Let us flush them out of the system. Some will, after being discovered, resign and form private consultancy firms. My problem is that it is so discouraging to realise that some departments make use of those firms that belong to those officials, who were fired or resigned because of them being corrupt. If there is a way of stopping it, let us please do it now, before it is too late. If I wanted to be harsh, I would have suggested that they should be blacklisted. It is discouraging to find some of these officials back in the public service.
Another concern is those officials who have reached a ceiling. They are untrainable and not transformable. For that matter, even the many workshops your departments have are unable to change them. It is very difficult for them to adjust to the new ways of doing things. My honest belief is that this Government is no longer interested in quantity, but in quality. Can the hon Minister do something about this?
I will feel bad if I cannot raise this concern, but I take it through you to the department. I still cannot believe or understand why the department refused to come and brief the select committee about their budget. We tried several times, through our chairperson, to invite his officials to come and brief us, but in vain. The committee sat on Monday, this week, but the officials never turned up. Hon Minister, something must be done about this.
My thanks go to the Public Service Commission, Sita and Samdi which deemed it fit and proper to come down, even if it was stooping low, they did it, they came to brief the committee. But not officials from your department, hon Minister. I wonder why. I have been informed that the very same officials managed to brief the portfolio committee, but not the select committee. [Interjections.]
The select committee was told they can only get a briefing after today’s debates. I wonder if these officials understand that these briefings are not optional. Members must know what those moneys, allocated to particular departments, go to.
Maybe one day we will be told why it was not important for the select committee to be briefed before this debate. Hon Minister, we now rely on you to knock sense into these officials. Briefings are not a luxury, but a bare necessity. Nobody is doing us a favour when they comply with our request for a briefing. I know the Minister will tell the House about the role the department is playing on the continent, and even in SADC, in assisting some countries, in making sure their administration is up to scratch.
I know there are countries that look at us, as a country, for assistance. By the same score, I was made aware that there are many officials from other countries who are working in many of our departments. However, we have to find out whether these officials are doing specialised jobs, or whether they are doing ordinary jobs that can be done by our own people in South Africa. If they are bringing in specialised skills we do not have a problem with them. We then support them working here.
Hon Minister, thank you very much for availing yourself to come and brief this Council. I hope and believe your officials will follow your example. Thank you very much.
Mnr J HORNE: Agb Voorsitter, voordat ek hierdie toespraak lewer, wil ek my aansluit by die vorige spreker. Ek het my afgevra: verstaan ek die Grondwet reg? Is my grondwetlike vertolking reg? Hierdie departement, waaroor ons vandag hier debat voer, het in bykans vier jaar slegs twee keer die gekose komitee kom spreek. Ons praat daarom vandag hier oor ‘n vreemdeling.
Wat ek vandag hier in my toespraak kan noem, is te danke aan die feit dat ek die portefeuljekomitee se sittings bygewoon het om in die pas te kom met die funksies van hierdie departement.
Dit is vir my aangenaam om vandag hier deel te neem aan die debat oor die begrotingspos van die Departement van die Staatsdiens en Administrasie.
Daar dien vermeld te word dat hierdie begroting diensleweringsgerig opgestel is om sodoende die funksionering van staatsdepartemente glad te laat verloop, nasionaal sowel as provinsiaal. Menslike hulpbronne is tot ‘n ver gevorderde stadium ontwikkel, wat in die praktyk beteken dat informasie van ‘n hoë gehalte beskikbaar is om sodoende departemente in staat te stel om effektiewe dienslewering moontlik te maak. Dit is daarom onverstaanbaar dat departemente so, male sonder tal, vasval, en soms nie daarin slaag om diens van gehalte te lewer nie. ‘n Voorbeeld hiervan is die Departement van Binnelandse Sake. Hierdie departement bepaal die kom en gaan van mense, maar is so vasgevang in administratiewe probleme dat dienslewering soms nie tot sy reg kom nie.
Die vraag kan gevra word: watter metodiek word gebruik om inligting deur te gee, en watter meganisme is beskikbaar om te sorg dat departemente op koers is en binne die raamwerk van dienslewering opereer?
‘n Ander aspek wat ook dringend aandag verg, is dié van plaaslike regering, gesien die feit dat menige plaaslike owerheid administratief nie die mas opkom nie. Dit sal die Departement van die Staatsdiens en Administrasie baat om in hierdie verband ook munisipaliteite te voorsien van inligting en opleiding, veral op die bestuursvlak, om sodoende te sorg dat goeie dienslewering sy beslag kry op die grondvlak.
As ons geluister het na wat die Minister gesê het van Sita en die ontwikkeling waarmee gevorder is sover dit inligting betref, sal dit ‘n kwade dag wees as departemente voortploeter op die ou prinsiep, terwyl so baie inligting en hulpbronne tot hul beskikking is.
Wat ook verder kommerwekkend is, is die feit dat salarisse in al die departemente se begrotings meer as 45% absorbeer. Effektiewe dienslewering word sodoende verskraal, en baie van die projekte word slegs teeninskrywings wat nooit realiseer nie, as gevolg van ‘n tekort aan finansies. Hierdie bose kringloop sal drasties beredder moet word.
Ek bedoel nie dat werknemers se salarisse nie moet tred hou met die inflasiekoers nie, maar ‘n goed betaalde werkerskorps moet gewis ‘n teenprestasie lewer by wyse van diens van gehalte. Dit is tans nie die geval nie. Die praktyk spreek vanself. Vir die staatsamptenare wat goeie diens lewer, wat hard werk, baie dankie. Dit word gewaardeer. Vir hierdie staatsamptenare wat hard werk, wil ek aanhaal wat Longfellow sê:
Die leiers op die hoogste trap het nie gestyg met enkele stap; wyl ander slaap en droom, het hul gewerk tot oggendsoon.
Ten slotte wil ek sê dit is ‘n weldeurdagte begroting, en die moeite werd om te steun, aldus die Nuwe NP. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr J HORNE: Hon Chairperson, before I deliver this speech, I wish to associate myself with the previous speaker. I have asked myself: Do I understand the Constitution correctly? Is my constitutional interpretation correct? This department about which we are debating here today has only visited the select committee twice in almost four years. We are therefore talking about a stranger here today. What I want to raise in my speech here today is thanks to the fact that I attended the meetings of the portfolio committee, to come familiar with the functions of this department. It is a pleasure for me to take part here today in the debate on the Budget Vote of the Department of Public Service and Administration.
It deserves to be mentioned that this budget was drafted with a view to service delivery in so doing to allow the functioning of government departments to run smoothly, nationally as well as provincially. Human resources have developed to a greatly advances stage, which in practice means that information of a high quality is available so as to enable government departments to make effective service delivery possible. It is therefore impossible to understand that departments time and again become bogged down, and sometimes do not succeed in rendering quality services. An example of this is the Department of Home Affairs. This department determines the coming and going of people, but is so entangled in administrative problems that service delivery sometimes does not come into its own.
The question may be put: What method is used to pass on information, and what mechanism is in place to ensure that departments are on course and operating within the profile of service delivery?
Another aspect that also requires in-depth attention is local government, in view of the fact that many a local authority fails administratively. It will stand the Department of the Public Service and Administration in good stead in this regard also to provide municipalities with information and training, especially at management level, in so doing to ensure that sound service delivery finds effect at the grassroots level.
If we have listened to what the Minister said about Sita and the development, with which progress has been made with regard to information, it would be a bad day if departments plodded on along the old principle while there is so much information and resources at their disposal. What furthermore gives cause for concern is the fact that salaries in all the departments absorb over 45%. effective service delivery is therefore diminished, and many of the projects just become contra-entries that are never realised owing to a lack of funds. This vicious circle will have to be dealt with dramatically.
I do not mean that employees’ salaries should not keep up with the inflation rate, but a well-paid workers’ corps should certainly produce a return on this by rendering a quality service. And this is not at present the case. Practice speaks for itself.
To government officials who render a good service, work hard: Thank you very much. It is appreciated. And to these government officials who work hard, I want to convey what Longfellow says:
The leaders on the highest step did not rise with single tread while others sleep and dream they worked till morning gleam. In conclusion, it is a well-considered budget, and worth supporting, so says the New NP.]
Mr I SEGALO (Free State): Chairperson, during July 1994, with the establishment of one Public Service for South Africa, the Free State government inherited approximately 35 600 posts from the ex-provincial administration of the Orange Free State, the ex-Qwaqwa and the ex- Bophuthatswana administrations. This excluded education, which was devolved to the province during 1995. After merging the above inherited structures, all serving officials were rationalised on 28 February 1996, in terms of the provisions of Chapter B (Special) of the Public Service Staff Code, resulting in 4929 serving officials being placed supernumerary to the post establishment of the province.
Owing to a moratorium placed on employer-initiated retrenchments by the national Government, said supernumerary officials could, up and until now, not be retrenched. I should also mention that these merged structures actually represented an amalgamated structure at the time. Rationalisation in the true sense of the word did not take place. Rationalisation only took place after the rationalisation of human resources was finalised, taking into account the needs of the respective departments in terms of their legal mandates and the needs of the community of the Free State province.
Functions being devolved by the national Government, as well as functions having to be created anew in terms of the legislation were also taken into account during the rationalisation process. Funds were only received in terms of functions or posts being devolved by national Government. For functions and posts to be created anew, the province had to provide funds for those functions from existing budgets. During the end of the 1996 financial year, officials from the Departments of State Expenditure and of Public Service and Administration, visited the province to obtain commitments for the abolition of funded vacancies and voluntary severance package posts.
The province subsequently contributed a total amount of approximately R157 million to the rightsizing process. It is the understanding of our province that Resolution 7 partly attempted to try and address the problem of excess staff, that is by absorbing excess staff in equivalent graded posts in the Public Service, prior to retrenching them. The province is in line with the target dates prescribed in Resolution 7.
The provincial IDTT was subsequently established to monitor the process, and to report to the Department of Public Service and Administration thereon, comprising of human resource representatives from all provincial departments to monitor the process. To date all provincial departments have finalised their restructuring exercises and provided lists of advertisements regarding vacancies for purposes of advertisements within the public service, thereby affording excess staff a chance to apply for such posts.
Each provincial department in the Free State has developed a service delivery improvement programme, addressing all the principles of Batho Pele, to ensure improved service delivery to the community. Information lines and help desks established in the provincial departments, and the issuing of newsletters to the community include a number of innovations in improving communication between Government and the community, thereby contributing to service delivery.
In enhancing improved delivery of services to the community, the Government entered into service level agreements with a number of service organisations. An example in this regard is the establishment of multipurpose community centres in remote areas in the Free State province. These centres ensure that an integrated service is rendered to the communities by a number of national and provincial departments bringing service to the communities.
The executive committee resolved on 19 March 2003 that the provincial government continues to make use of the transversal systems maintained by Sita. All provincial departments, in future, closely interact with Sita on matters related to telecommunications infrastructure. If a provincial department is not able to render a service listed as a ``may’’ service in Section 7(1)(b) of the Sita Amendment Act of 2002, with internal capacity, it must approach Sita to either render or procure the service on behalf of such a department.
In line with the stipulations of Sections 3 and 4 of the Sita Amendment Act, provincial departments procure all information technology goods or services through Sita. The business agreement that was concluded between the province and Sita on 14 September 2000 must be reviewed to include the stipulations of the Sita Amendment Act, Act 38 of 2002, and the above resolutions.
Progress in ensuring that the province participate in the Sita service level agreement is thus well underway. According to the 1996 population census, our province has an estimated total population of 2,63 million people, which makes it the smallest provincial population after the Northern Cape. Eighty four per cent of the Free State population consist of black people, 12% whites, 3% coloureds, and 0,11% Indians.
With increasing unemployment, families, especially female headed households, people in the rural areas, the disabled, the youth and others who have special needs, have become increasingly vulnerable. Because they have no security and sustainable livelihoods, they turn to the welfare system for income, maintenance and social support. In seeking to apply itself to these challenges and opportunities, the provincial Strategic Plan was developed by the province in February 2000.
The fundamental purpose of this plan is to align departmental strategic plans with the view to produce a global provincial plan that will positively alter the socioeconomic patterns of the province. The implementation of the Free State Development Plan is dealt with in partnership with the private sector in the Free State province. IDPs from local authorities are also aligned with the said plans.
Let me also say that there is considerable progress when it comes to developing the Free State provincial government into a competent professional and ethical public service. Examples in this regard are the following. The development of a departmental workplace skills plan, identifying and addressing the training needs of officials in the province and the establishment of the Free State Training and Development Management Institute that ensures that effective and needs-based transverse generic training programmes are made available to officials. In this regard 1% of the budgets of departments is allocated for the development of officials. Departments also allocate bursaries to officials for purposes of development and retention, and to people from outside the public service for purposes of recruitment.
Another example is the development and implementation of a performance and development management system from levels 1-12, which, amongst others, has the following objectives: To establish a performance and learning culture in the public service, to ensure that all jobholders know and understand what is expected of them, to promote contact and interaction about performance between jobholders and their supervisors and to evaluate performance fairly and objectively.
The above-mentioned PDMS is also being translated into Abet level by means of the IPSP programme, ensuring accessibility to illiterate and lower level graded officials. The development and management of performance agreements for all HODs as well as SMS members in the province, ensure that performance of HODs and SMS members are managed in line with predetermined objectives.
Various key corporate matters have also been dealt with in our province. The following are examples: Management plans have been developed by all departments in the Free State provincial government; comprising of service delivery improvement programmes, strategic plans, human resource plans, etc, so as to shape services to meet customer needs. Departmental strategic plans have been aligned with the Free State Development Plan. A provincial human resource development strategy has been developed in consultation with all provincial departments. The said strategy has been developed according to the unique needs of the Free State provincial government, and within the parameters set in the White Paper on Public Service, Training and Education, addressing various human resources policies like recruitment, appointment and transfer.
The establishment of various special programmes, that is youth, gender, disability … [Interjections.] Sabotage! [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time has expired. It is not sabotage. [Laughter.] [Applause.] When your microphone goes off you must know your time has expired.
Mr J F AULSEBROOK (KwaZulu-Natal): Thank you Chairperson. Let me start by giving credit where credit is due. The hon Minister and her department must be complimented for having brought the Department of Public Service and Administration through the phases of amalgamation, transformation and rightsizing to where we are today. Having said that, we in KwaZulu-Natal will point out a number of areas and issues that need serious attention before we can claim we have a truly efficient and effective Public Service. Please take our comments as being constructive, and not merely as criticism.
Firstly, I will very briefly touch on four areas of concern. First of all, it is our concern that we have an overregulated system, one which also changes far too frequently. We have a plethora of laws to deal with in our civil service, such as the Public Service Act, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, the Employment Equity Act, Public Service Regulations, DPSA Policy and Guidelines, PACBC Resolutions and the Code of Conduct - a real minefield. In each instance, each of these needs to be read in conjunction with the other to just understand the principles.
Coupled with that, is the fact that there are constant changes coming up, which makes the system certainly not user-friendly to our administrators, especially the managers and their administration. The change that is required here is that the Departments of Public Service and Administration and of Labour need to reduce the frequency of changes that come about in these laws, norms and standards to allow departments to understand this system which has been passed on to them, and to consolidate and implement the laws and guidelines. This will allow departments enough time to effectively manage and implement our labour laws in line with Batho Pele standards.
Secondly, another area of concern is the nonalignment of local governments’ salary system with the provincial salary system. The provincial one is in fact aligned to the national norms and standards. Local government and municipalities have a very different structure. This creates a problem for us in the provinces with regards to staff retention, and the high turnover of staff.
There are times when we in the provinces feel that we are trying to build our own administrative capacity on no more than a training ground for staff for local government and, in some instances, national departments. We feel that this critical problem should be addressed by legislation. The proposed Public Administration Management Act, which is to replace the Public Service Act, needs to address this problem effectively. The idea that local governments, as the third sphere of Government, should be operating on a separate system is not acceptable. We would like to see the same labour laws and salary determinations that apply to provincial and national Government applied to local government in order to ensure stability of staff.
The third issue is resolution of intergovernmental disputes. The dispute resolution within the three spheres of Government need to be managed by legislation. In terms of Chapter 3 of the Constitution, the different spheres of Government ought to adopt legislation to manage dispute resolution in crisis management. This legislation has not yet been adopted. For example, we in KwaZulu-Natal, had the R293 properties, which were transferred to municipalities in terms of legislation. However, up until now, we still sit with staff from the 293 towns, which have not been transferred to municipalities, or even in some cases national departments, to whom they render services.
The problem comes about because local government and municipalities, and national department in many cases, are unwilling to accept these employees, because they know that there are no adequate mechanisms for the management of disputes that arise in the area of these relationships. Therefore, if Government departments ought to avoid taking each other to court, in the spirit of co-operative and good governance, it is essential that legislative guidelines be provided to maintain this cordial support and co- operative system of Government in resolving disputes and building Batho Pele principles within the Public Service.
Finally, the fourth point we would like to raise relates to Resolution 7. The process of Resolution 7 has been very difficult to comply with. The employment of excess employees is greatly resisted by most managers, because they believe … [Time expired.]
Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, I want to constructively remind both my colleagues, Mr Aulsebrook and Mr Horne, that we yesterday had a briefing on the intergovernmental fiscal review. The intergovenmental fiscal review states that expenditures, provincially and nationally, are estimated at 18%. The issue that Mr Aulsebrook has raised is incorrect. Secondly, in terms of the capacity of municipalities, that matter is taken care of in the Division of Revenue Act. There is a whole range of conditional grants which seek to assist municipalities. This department is going to assist where it is required to assist.
We have been reminded by the Minister of Education that KZN is the only province that has so far had more than five MECs for Education. Maybe this is one of the concerns the member must also address when he raises some of these kinds of financial problems. The other problem that also emanates from that province has to do with the huge number of people they always bring to the NCOP as special delegates. They would come in fours, in twos or in eights, to only one debate. It is a matter that also has serious financial implications that that province must address. [Laughter.]
The RDP states that South Africa has a large public sector with many resources. The public sector consists of the Public Service, the police, the defence force …
Mr J AULSBROOK: Chairperson, on a point of order: What my colleague has said there is not relevant to what I said.
Mr T RALANE: Chair, he has really wasted my time. I hope you have not counted that minute. The staffing levels in, and budgetary allocations to, Government departments and institutions must match the requirements for service delivery and operational requirements for women’s empowernment within the constraints of the budget. A definite quota of all new employees should come from groups that were disadvantaged on the basis of race and gender. All employees should be given access to appropriate training and support systems. This should be evaluated each year to determine the progress made and to identify problems which arise. By the turn of the century, the personnel composition of the public sector, including parastatal, must have changed to reflect the national distribution of race and gender. Such progress will enhance the full utilisation of the country’s labour power and productivity.
What is the state of affairs as we approach the tenth anniversary of our liberation? A Public Service Commission has been appointed with the mandate of dealing with issues of appointments and of promoting efficiency and effectiveness in departments. The Public Service Commission has already established a code of conduct for the Public Service, and introduced programmes of affirmative action and other appropriate techniques to eliminate inequities in employment.
The ethos created by the Code of Conduct is that of professionalism and inculcating the principle and practice of serving the people. Owing to the realities of the country’s discriminatory history, the DPSA had to move in great strides to address the inequities of the past in the Public Service. Key successes in this regard may be summarised as follows: Transformation and restructuring of the Public Service ensured the protection and creation of quality employment within the Public Service. In addition, it improved delivery of services to the community, enhancing the productivity and performance of the Public Service to meet national objectives. It is conducted in a joint, open and consultative way amongst all stakeholders.
It ensured that the redeployment of personnel would take place in terms of the job summit framework and in terms of further agreements to be negotiated in the PSCB. Furthermore, it ensured that the Public Service remained the provider of services that constitute the social wage in order to meet the needs of the poor and also provide a foundation for development. More importantly, it improved the skills base of the Public Service, and ensured that the Public Service remained the primary resource for such training. Moreover, it enhanced greater equity in the distribution of incomes and wealth.
The Government inherited a Public Service which was strongly influenced by discriminatory employment policies and practices based on race, gender and disability, hence these groups are poorly represented at decision-making levels, and in other technical occupational classes. The Constitution identifies representativeness of the Public Service as one of the main conditions of a nonracist, nonsexist and democratic society that integrates people with disabilities.
When the Government came into power in 1994, initiatives were put in place to remove discriminatory practices and policies in employment. Measures were also developed as an interim arrangement to facilitate and promote accessibility to the Public Service for all. The White Paper on Affirmative Action was a testimony of the Government’s commitment to the transformation of the Public Service into an institution where employment practices are underpinned by equity.
In addition, the DPSA published the White Paper on Affirmative Action in the Public Service in South Africa in Sesotho, IsiZulu, Xitsonga and Afrikaans on the Internet with effect from 30 September 1998. This is a progressive move towards the recognition of multilingualism in South Africa. The papers mentioned accountability, monitoring and the reporting of responsibilities of the various players within affirmative action programmes.
The purpose of the paper was to provide a policy framework that sets out the mandatory requirements and steps that national departments and provincial administrations should take to develop and implement their affirmation action programmes. Subsequent to the affirmative action policy, the Government decided to introduce the Employment Equity Bill. This was necessitated by … [Time Expired.] [Applause.]
The ANC supports the Vote. Ms G N SWAARTBOOI (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, the tide has turned. ``Build a people’s contract for a better South Africa’’, that is what I am saying to the hon Minister, Mrs Fraser-Moleketi. Malibongwe! [Praise!].
Ever since our country was democratised in 1994, Government has made steady progress in ensuring that it continues with its mandate to create a better life for all South Africans. Our challenge as the Government is to focus on sustaining and speeding up the progress. The Minister’s speech is striving to do just that. The foundation has been laid in the first five years, when more emphasis was on restructuring and policy-making. In this second democratic term of governance there has been a shift to more service delivery and policy-implementation. The tide has turned. Build a people’s contract for a better South Africa.
In order for the Government to sustain and speed up the progress, it is important for public servants to demonstrate a practical understanding of procedures, directions and instructions contained in the Code of Conduct if effective service delivery is to reach the citizens of our country. The Code of Conduct for Public Servants was promulgated in 1997 with the aim of providing public servants with guidelines on the behaviour expected of them in the course of their duties.
However, as the Government, we are still faced with the challenge of some officials who do not promote and maintain the high standards of professional ethics in the Public Service. They continue to take offers, gifts or bribes. There are a lot of fraudulent activities and corruption taking place. Those responsible are from the most junior to the most senior officials in all departments.
To be specific, in KwaZulu-Natal the officials of social welfare and services are the most corrupt. They work in collaboration with the officials of Home Affairs and district surgeons. There will be two different people with the same ID number, like in the case of a certain applicant by the name of Mrs Marriet Khumalo who lives in Gamalakhe, Port Shepstone. This applicant applied for an old age pension in September 2000. But to date she does not get her pension, instead another person who has the same ID number, who lives at G419 in Umlazi, is getting the pension with the same ID number that belongs to Mrs Khumalo.
At Tongaat one finds people sleeping outside welfare offices in long queues. It was reported in our last welfare portfolio Committee meeting that in order for these people to be assisted in whatever form, they first have to fork out a sum of R20. It has been reported to me that in Umzinto district surgeons work with welfare officials, and as a result, most of the people who get disability grants do not have any disabilities, and people who are really permanently disabled are not able to access the grant. This is very unfair. I do not know when people will realise that the tide has turned and that we should build a people’s contract for a better South Africa.
The Code of Conduct has to be popularised, and each official should have a copy of the explanatory manual of the Code of Conduct produced by the Public Service Commission. Secondly, the challenge that each department has to face is to ensure that the principles, as outlined in the Batho Pele White Paper, are adhered to by the officials so that the needs of our people can be placed first and be satisfied.
In conclusion, we wish to commend all officials who are engaged in promoting the Code of Conduct, and who are committed to respect the Batho Pele principles. They must keep up the good work, and never give up the challenge of promoting an ethos of professionalism in the Public Service. Forward South Africans with a better life for all. Afrika ke nako. [Africa it is time.] The tide has turned. Build a contract for a better South Africa. [Applause.]
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Deputy Chair of Chairs, hon Minister, hon members and distinguished guests, I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Minister for her forthright and open approach to the challenges and problems facing her department. It is often forgotten, sometimes for reasons of political comfort or opportunism, that the task of transforming South Africa’s Public Service is a massive and complex one. It was a massive challenge to transform our administration, or create a new one, and at the same time seek and develop resources to deliver services and infrastructure to the electorate.
I still remember my visit to one of the offices in 1994. I sat in the queue with the people I found there, and listened to them complaining and grumbling. There were two ladies who had been there for two days. They had been waiting on the bench the whole of the previous day and had to leave that afternoon without having been helped. They complained that there were only three days left for them to finalise the burial arrangements of their loved one, and they had not been helped yet. I was going to sit there and come the following day, but because of the problem that these people had, I had to intervene.
I went into the office and there I found a group of clerks with their feet on the desk. They just gave me one dirty look, and then they carried on with their conversation. I stood and looked at them, and then they asked me: “Yes, can we help you?” I was not planning on telling them who I was, but I had to, just because I wanted them to help those people.
I told them: There are people that have been coming here for two days and you have not helped them. When do you intend helping them? They looked at me and probably thought: Who do you think you are? [Interjections.] Then I said to them: By the way, I am a member of Parliament in Cape Town. I am a senator - the second House was then still the Senate. Then they jumped up. [Laughter.] I do not know what happened to the others, but the one whose office that was had nowhere to go. He had to face me. Then only did they help those people. But today, I must say, I am very proud there is a great, great change. Those things are not happening any more.
I am very grateful, Minister, to our Government for the change, but today we are faced with challenges of integration. Transformation cannot happen overnight. The movement towards a more integrated governance approach to the work of the Department of Public Service and Administration and the enhanced pressures arising from integrated governance responsibilities have created additional policy and integrated capability demands. It has become necessary to focus additional capabilities at the strategic corporate centre of the Department of Public Service and Administration.
Resolution 7 of 2002 is an agreement between the state, as an employer, and the Public Service trade unions on the transformation and restructuring of the Public Service. Resolution 7 will resolve the problem of inappropriate deployment of staff, while increasing productivity and ensuring the delivery of better quality public services. It will also identify lack of skills within the Public Service.
The State Information Technology Agency - Sita - is now well set to effectively integrate and co-ordinate government information systems, and the Independent Public Service Commission has grown into its role of monitoring and evaluating the Public Service, promoting a high standard of professional ethics in the Public Service and undertaking investigations. I had an argument with the people of Sita. I told them I have not seen them in the Northern Cape. I wanted to know when they had visited the Northern Cape, because they had so much to tell us on what they had done, but one does not see what they had done. I told them that I would go and check.
Corporate services have historically been a fairly dispersed function within the Department of Public Service and Administration, and have historically been a very human capital intensive operational area. The centre of Public Service Innovations’ work is showing us that we need to consider one Public Service in terms of policy and systems that uses one- stop centres such as multipurpose community centres staffed by multiskilled public servants. The Minister has already mentioned such a one-stop centre at Galeshewe. I must say it is of great help to our people.
An HON MEMBER: … and in Colesberg.
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: … and in Colesberg. Our Constitution requires that a single Public Service be promoted, and we must, therefore, review each and every request critically. For this purpose the Department of Public Service and Administration has established a joint panel with national Treasury.
Lastly, provinces have a very important role to play. The Integrated Provincial Support Programme remains the Department of Public Service and Administration’s partnership with provinces and select donors to improve service delivery. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, the hon Minister and colleagues, the Deputy Chair gave the hon Minister an extra two minutes, which I think was because of her charm, and not because of her slow watch. I hope I can have the same effect on the Chair, even if it is not today. Perhaps I can bank it for a later occasion. [Laughter.] I do not know if it will help if I say the DA supports this vote. Hon Minister, the hon Kgosi Mokoena and the hon Mkhaliphi have made certain points with which I associate myself, and I won’t repeat them. I am sure you are aware, hon Minister, that as a second House, the NCOP likes, as a part of its oversight obligations, to visit the points at which service delivery takes place. I appreciate that much of this is anecdotal, but we hope the hon Minister gets our reports. Together with other sources of information available to her, it should assist to build a more accurate picture of this state of affairs in the Public Service. Because it is anecdotal, hon Minister, it would not be fair to cite specific cases and expect you to respond to them in this debate. Suffice it to say that we have seen the very worst, including allegations of corruption, as well as the very best, which includes individuals who have taken the ethos of service delivery to heart and who clearly live, eat and breathe the ethos of service delivery. We have also seen every shade of public servant between these two extremes.
One of the challenges you face, hon Minister, is to keep the good individuals who are precious to our country, and to rid us of the corrupt officials. Why do we, as the DA, support this budget vote? We do so, hon Minister, because we have seen that the department has put in place management tools to facilitate delivery of services and to limit, and progressively eliminate, corruption. Certainly there are challenges. The hon Minister herself has acknowledged this. In considering whether we will support next year’s budget, hon Minister, we will be looking for the improved outcomes from the implementation of these management tools.
Hon Minister, you have also shown great courage, which I wish to acknowledge, in the negotiating of the multiyear wage packages for the public sector. It is very topical and very recent that the latest has been announced where the public sector has been awarded - I am told - 9,5%. I believe it was announced today if I am not mistaken. However, Minister, and you are not responsible for this, but I am sure you are aware that Statistics SA has provided misleading information. I make the assumption, and perhaps you will correct me if I am wrong, that the negotiation of the current wage package was based on what Statistics SA provided you with. If that is so, hon Minister, you will need to - I am afraid - show courage again to renegotiate the wage packages, because this would put the macroeconomic policy of inflation targeting, which the country has adopted, at great risk. If the public sector packages are above inflation, it will put great pressure on our inflation targeting.
Hon Minister, we await your action and see clearly that you have the capacity to deal with this problem, and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with. I do not wish to take more time, and perhaps I can save the Chair by concluding my speech at this point. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I have taken note of your point, Mr Lever. Surprisingly you have given me two minutes, though I was going to give you one minute. But I would imagine that you would have to synchronise your watch with ours. Mong C MOTSILILI (Kapa Botjhabela): Ke a leboha Modulasetulo. Ke lebisa hlompho ho letona le leng kwano ka jeno, le ho Ditho tsohle tsa Ntlo ena kajeno. Ka ha ke batla hore mme enwa atle a hle a di arabe ditaba tsena tsa ka tse bohlokwa ha kana, ke rata ho sebedisa leleme la hae hobane ha ke ditshepe dintho tse mona tse fetolelang. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[Mr C MOTSILILI (Eastern Cape): Thank you, Chairperson. I would like to honour the Minister, who is present today, as well as members of this House. Because I want the lady to give a reply to what I am going to say, which is very important, I will use her language as I don’t trust the interpreting services.]
According to the 2003 intergovernmental fiscal review, the Eastern Cape provincial government has about 123 000 public servants in its employ. This represents the second highest number of public servants in a provincial government. Out of these people 90% were part of the former Transkei/Ciskei and the Cape Provincial Administration. This diverse background of these public servants poses a huge challenge for the transformation programme of our country in general, and the Eastern Cape in particular. It is a well- known fact that these public servants considerably exceed the number required by the province.
In fact, during 1994, the national Government should have inherited all these civil servants, so that as a province we could recruit those we want from the national pool, rather than the province inheriting that huge number of people. The responsibility of dealing with excess staff would have been better dealt with by a national government, rather than being dealt with a provincial level. As a rural province we are facing serious challenges with respect to service delivery imperatives and Batho Pele. The majority of public servants in our province are committed to the agenda of the democratic Government.
There are, however, some elements who do not have the interest of the people at heart. These people are uncaring and driven by greed. After realising the above challenges, the Premier of our province requested an intervention of the national Government through the office of the President. We appreciate the positive response of the President by appointing an interim management team to come up with a turnaround strategy, especially in the departments that have been mentioned before: the Departments of Health, Social Development, Education, Transport and Public Works. We wish that this intervention could have come earlier, because we could have progressed very far by now.
I just want to place on record for people who don’t know, because there are perceptions about the Eastern Cape that are flying around - to which some people perhaps unconsciously contribute - that the IMT is made up of senior public servants who come from national departments to the Public Service Commission and the Department of Public Service and Administration, and also the DG of the Province and the SG of Treasury. As far as I’m aware the IMT has done sterling work in terms of finishing phase one, that is that of diagnosing the problems that have to be faced by the provincial government. To a large extent the year report confirmed what we already know as a province; namely the facts that there are many vacancies in middle and senior management echelons, that some managers are lacking supervisory skills, that there is a huge backlog in disciplinary cases, that there are poor personnel management systems, and others that have been referred to.
Hajwale IMT ena entse e sebeletsa hore e tle e tle le turnaround strategy e tlang ho leka ho lokisa mathata ana a tobaneng le provense ena ya heso. Empa ntlha eo ke ratang ho se hatella kajeno, eo ke tshepang hore o tla e utlwisisa ke ya hore re rata hore rona re le mmuso wa provense mmoho le mmuso wa naha, re tshwarane ka matsoho mme, ho seke ha eba le emong ya tlang ho ipona eka ena ke emoholo ha emong yena e le ngwana kapa moshanyana. Re batla hore ho thusanwe hobane ana ke a rona bohle. Haholo- holo hobane Proense ya Kapa Botjhabela ke yona e ileng ya amohela mahae a jwale ka bo Transkei, a neng a tsebahala haholo ka bobodu le manyofonyofo. Mahae a jwalo ka bo Ciskei, a neng thehwe ke puso ya maburu mme, a aparetswe ke bobodu.
Ka hoo he, re ka thaba haeba ho ka le phethoho mekgweng ya tjhadimo ya maemo a ditaba le katamelo ya dintho ntlheng tse jwalo. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[At present the IMT is still trying to introduce the turnaround strategy that will try to resolve these problems that are facing our province. What I would like to emphasise today, which I hope you will understand, is that we as the provincial government, together with the national Government, should hold hands and no one should regard himself or herself as superior to others. We would like to work together, because this belongs to all of us. The Eastern Cape province is the one that accepted homelands like the Transkei, the homelands that were mostly known for corruption. Homelands like the Ciskei were homelands established by the Afrikaner government, and therefore riddled with corruption.
We would therefore be very glad if there could be changes in the ways of dealing with different circumstances and similar matters.]
Another challenge we, as a province, have to face is the unintended consequences of outsourcing the payment of social grants. These companies, which are making payments on behalf of the Government, are failing to perform in line with the service level agreement, and hence they are tarnishing the image of Government as a whole. They are not only tarnishing the image of the Eastern Cape, but of Government in general. So, it is important for us to help each other as national Government. I would like to call upon the Department of Public Service and Administration and the Minister, to co-ordinate a programme of ensuring that best practices, especially from provinces who have chosen the outsourcing model, be shared with the Eastern Cape.
I would also like to confirm the fact that some people have died in the queues, waiting to receive their grants. About four people passed away in April in an area called Mount Fletcher, and during this week one passed away in area called Nqandule. We think that it’s an area that really needs attention, because we believe that our Government is a caring Government. Those mistakes that arise should enable us to move with speed.
Then with respect to human resource management, which is facing daunting challenges in the province, there is a shortage of skilled public servants.
Ha ke tsebe hore na ebe ntho e tjena e a etsahala le lapeng kwana na, ke hore mane Kapa Botjhabela. Ntho eo ke e hlokomelang ke ya hore batho ba kenngwa dikgeong tsa mosebetsi wa mmuso. Empa ba dula dikgwedinyana di se kae ebe ba nkuwa ke mafapha ana a Lefapha la Naha. Mohlomong lebaka ke hobane re tseba ho kgetha batho ba makgethe ba batle, kapa mohlomong batho bao re ba fumantshang mosebetsi ba rata ho tlolela ditoropong tse kgolo. Empa mathata a jwalo ona re na le ona. Mme, re ka thata ha Lefapha la Tshebele Tsa Setjhaba le Tamaiso le re thuse, le be le mokgwa wa ho boloka basebetsi nako e telele e le hore re tle re tsebe ho boloka basebetsi bana. Ha o ka wa sheba mane Gauteng le bo Tshwane esitana le hona mona Kapa, batho itseng ba tshwereng marapo mesebetsing e phahameng, ke batho ba tswang hae kwana.
Ka hoo, seno se a bontsha hore re a tseba ho hlahisa batho ba nang le bokgoni ba ho etella pele. Jwale he, ke rata ho bua ka Samdi eleng mokgatlo o mona o rupellang basebeletsi ba mmuso hore ba be le tlhahiso e ntlafetseng. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[I do not know whether this even happens at home, that is the Eastern Cape. What I am aware of is that people are appointed to various vacancies in the government. They only spend a few months there and then they are taken by the national departments. Perhaps this is because we are able to appoint people who are beautiful and well dressed, or perhaps we appoint people who like to move to big cities. Those are the problems that we have. We would be very glad if the Department of Public Service and Administration could assist us by providing us with a way of keeping employees for a long period. If one looked at Gauteng and the Western Cape, one would see that people in certain senior positions are people from the rural areas.
This consequently shows that we are able to produce people who have leadership skills and capabilities. I would therefore like to talk about Samdi, which is the organisation that trains government employees to be more productive.]
I think Samdi is supposed to play a more active role, especially at provincial level, in the light of the resources that have been made available through the Skills Development Act and the skills development levy. There is a huge challenge that we have to face, especially at provincial level, and according to my knowledge …
… ifuthe lika Samdi alivakali phaya. Ngoko ke, siya kuthanda into yokuba elo futhe livakale ngamandla. [… the role that is supposed to be played there by Samdi is not clear. We would like to see what role Samdi is playing.]
Commenting on the Public Service Commission, I would like to say that as the Eastern Cape we appreciate the interaction that we have with the Public Service Commission. When we interacted with them about two and a half years ago, we highlighted to them that the kind of reports that they were presenting to us had only a bearing on national departments. I’m proud to report today that ever since that interaction their reports are very relevant to our province. We would like to encourage them to sustain the momentum of the interaction.
Regarding Public Service Regulations, we would like to call upon the department and the Minister, in particular, to constantly review those regulations. It is very difficult, under the current dispensation of regulations, to discipline or get rid of deadwood in the Public Service. I’m reminded of a case where a public servant engaged in corrupt activities. It then so happened that the person who was presided at the subsequent disciplinary hearing happened to have some collusion with that person. And when the report was given, the MEC was too tied up to act, because there is a regulation which specifies that she cannot intervene. Ke dintho tseno tse tlamehileng hore di shejwe. [These are the things that should be taken into account.]
But in general we think that the budget speech and the budget programme should be implemented, and we would like the effect … le moya wa lefapha lena o utlwahale mahae kwana. Ke a leboha. [ … and this department’s spirit should be felt even in the rural areas. Thank you.]
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you very much, Deputy Chair, and thanks to all members for the vibrant participation in this particular budget debate.
I want to start my rejoinder by quoting Ben Okri, an African author:
Hope and striving have magic in them. Those who have much to strive for, much to resolve and overcome and redream, may be luckier than they think. Struggle is life. I raise this in terms of this particular portfolio and clearly the huge challenges that we face, having identified the magnitude of the task we must confront as we are involved in the agenda of transforming the colossus of the Public Service.
Having said that, and before I take that further in the spirit of ``the tide has turned’’, I would first like to respond to issues raised. I want to start with the most difficult one that was raised by Kgoshi Mokoena and others: It is unacceptable that a department does not present before the select committee. It is unacceptable, and I will ensure that there is a written reason given for why it has not happened. I have a note here about what happened, but I am too embarrassed to read this note, because I feel that we are all here as elected representatives of the people, carrying out our duties, as clearly identified in the Constitution, and that if there is a problem, there should always be a fall-back to deal with it. And clearly there will be a written explanation.
I do, however, also want to say in a similar vein that there is a need for much greater interaction between the committee itself and my office. I never got any indication, prior to being informed today, that there was a failure of an attendance by one component, and I do want to say that it is something that I would have appreciated a letter directly to me on.
I think it is also necessary to state that the Department of Public Service and Administration is but one of those that fall under my portfolio, and I would like to have an indication, not necessarily today, if there are any others who have fallen foul in a similar manner. But we will deal with this, and I think we are humbled by this instance. This is a huge lesson for us, an unfortunate lesson, but it is a lesson we will learn from.
I would like to reflect on the whole question of the scourge of corruption and how we are handling that within the Public Service. I do want to state, and will do so through example, that there have been, very clearly, an attempt to ensure that we deal with corruption. Our anticorruption drive is one that is very hands-on.
The Public Service Commission has played a very specific role, and continues to make useful investigations into specific cases of corruption; the findings of which provide insight into the problem, and also provides us with practical and realistic solutions. We can go into this in a fair amount of detail, but I do not think time is permitting.
Where I do think that we should tie things up a bit better, is the fact that we should ensure that the Anticorruption Forum, that has been revitalised, plays the kind of role that it should in the various stakeholder groupings that constitute the forum. And as you are aware, the Anticorruption Forum consists of civil society, private sector and Government.
We have found that, in terms of meeting the obligations that we have identified at the Anticorruption Conference that was hosted by Parliament itself, and at subsequent meetings, that it is the Government that takes its obligation forward. But our various partners have not necessarily played as much a role in their sectors as required. We understand that the civil society sector has difficulties. They have reflected in a report before the portfolio committee in the National Assembly that they have lost a number of people, and that there has been a complexity about it. But I think it might be useful for the select committee to invite the National Anticorruption Forum in order to receive a report from them.
There are various findings that are captured in the written vote that reflects on a report that had been commissioned by us, along with one of the agencies of the United Nations, that looks at, and has actually done, an investigation into the extent of corruption in South Africa. What has come out very clearly, is that the perception of corruption is much higher than the actual experience in instances. But our argument is, and I believe that this is the argument of this House, that we would want to build, as far as possible, a corruption-free environment; hence any instance of corruption is one too many.
But the report that we had commissioned, had assessed that the political, legislative and institutional frameworks are in place to combat corruption, and it also concluded that we do have a solid, progressive ethics infrastructure in place.
There is legislation, The Prevention of Corruption Bill, that must be fast- tracked. But just as a reminder, in terms of the revelation of corruption, it was pointed out in the process that in official processes, Government itself has exposed and discovered 60% of the cases of corruption. Civil society has only uncovered 18%. Whistle-blowers have only been responsible for 13%. We were concerned about it. We thought that we probably needed to ensure that there was greater encouragement for whistle-blowers to come out. However, the most depressing part was that investigative journalism only constituted 8,4%. We felt that the press always pride themselves that they have an important role to play, but we think they can do much better than that.
In terms of the point that was raised by the hon Yusuf Gabru from the Western Cape: As we confront the issue of the restructuring of the Public Service and look at the question of Resolution 7, we have, as the process has developed, of course realised the fact that there is a particular reality facing us where there are lower level public servants, and not only in the education sector, which may be located in a particular area where a particular department may have identified them as in excess of the Public Service. We have an instance where, in the Eastern Cape, in a particular department a few hundred people that are in one location have been identified as being in excess.
We have, of course, said that we do have to look at how we manage cases such as these, but we also need to confront the reality that there is a need for departments to identify what their human resource needs are, and they also need to identify if there are certain functions that they may consider noncore functions of the department.
Having said that, we have not taken a `devil may care’ attitude and said: Just go ahead and retrench. Hence you would see, if you look at Resolution 7, the issue of retrenchment is at the end of the very process. All departments must engage proactively in looking at whether there is a possibility of finding alternative employment, or to review the way in which they may have looked at the staff establishment.
But, separate from that, we are not going to keep people in the Public Service who should not be there. We cannot keep people to dig a hole and fill it up, because there happen to be some people as example reflected here today, who actually do no work in the Public Service. They receive a salary, but they do not work.
I am not suggesting that the education sector workers you referred to is that category of worker, because I know that whether in senior or middle management, or lower down in the Public Service, there have been those who are not interested in being part of the turning of the tide and them we want out. And we feel that it is the responsibility of managers to identify those employees.
I would agree with those members who have said that there is a reluctance from certain senior managers to fully apply Resolution 7. We have seen this. As a matter of fact, the application of the resolution only really got effected as from about October last year. Before that there was either a view that a year is a long time, or a view of noncommitment from senior public servants. I am glad to say this has changed. But as a result the kind of problems that are coming to the fore are only coming to the fore now, and they should have been identified much earlier.
The process itself was due to be completed by the end of June - that is the full process - including the matching and placement, the identification of excess personnel, identifying those who will be counselled and retrained in order to prepare them to leave the Public Service, etc.
We have determined, through the reports we received, that certain departments are not quite ready for the completion of the process, and hence we have extended the moratorium of vacant posts. And this is particularly to allow us to identify people from other departments who can be redeployed. But the complexities, I think there is no question, we will confront.
Let me, before my time runs out, deal with some of the issues that came up as curve balls. There are two. There is one that was raised by Mr Aulsebrooke from KwaZulu-Natal, and I must say I was a bit confused. On the one hand you say we are overregulating; on the other hand you then say please regulate and ensure that there is legislation in place in order that we do not have the kind of job-hopping that is there.
I think we need to decide: Should we regulate further or not? I also want to respectfully point to the issues that you raised as problem issues, and then said that they were due to overregulation. You said we have the problem that we change regulations and the system too frequently. We have the Public Service Act, the BCEA, the EEA, Public Service regulations, etc.
The Public Service Act has only been amended once. It was promulgated in 1994 and amended in 1999. I would not call that swift changing. As a matter of fact, I actually wanted to thank Parliament for not being too focused on the changing of laws and saying that I should ensure that I bring new legislation for the sake of legislation being passed, but rather allowing us to be able to over the 10 year period reflect on where we think there are limitations in the regulatory framework.
I will give one example: There is a view that there are certain aspects of the Public Finance Management Act and the Public Service Act that may need a closer look, especially the issue of the human resources component. However, I want to state today we have clearly decided that at this particular point in time, not unlike the prevailing view, just more broadly, we will not move the human resources function to managers, as some may argue the PFMA requires, because there is not the required, let us call it infrastructure due to lack of a better word, or institutions to support that, which may be in the instance of the budget.
To control the budget you have the Auditor-General, you have the portfolio committee that looks at the issue of public accounts, etc. There are clear disincentives if there is a violation of the budget, for example overspending. There is also a need to report on underspending.
For the human resource component there is not a mechanism that monitors it in a similar way. The Auditor-General is trying to look at some level of performance accounting, but we do not really believe that it is the function of an Auditor-General to look at the area of human resources, because it is a specialised area. It is an area that should rather be looked at by human resource practitioners, and it is a function that I would argue needs to be dealt with in line with what comes up in the area of public administration and the human resource focus.
Am I running out of time completely? Can I finish up? Can I just wrap up on that?
I then want to conclude with the point that was raised by hon Lever, which almost seems to suggest that in Government the right hand does not know what the left hand does. I think it is totally irresponsible. You would note that a wage agreement was reached and the signing took place yesterday morning. I announced before national Parliament yesterday that the salary increment for public servants this year is 8,5% across the board, with 1% that is based on a pay-progression system. It is performance-based.
We looked very clearly at CPIX and, as a matter of fact, we did not have discussions with organised labour, or as the Ministers’ committee, on the budget, before the CPIX figures were made known, especially taking into account the correction that was effected. And if you had bothered to look at the three-year wage agreement, it said that if CPIX is less than 4% or more than 7,5%, we should re-open for negotiation.
If you look at the correction of CPIX for the past year, CPIX for the year more or less stands at 9%. Together with organised labour, reflecting a maturation of our relations in collective bargaining, we decided we would not reopen negotiation, but rather effect a settlement that would take that into account.
And we are absolutely au fait with what the macroeconomic projections of CPIX is for the forthcoming year. Because, after all, salaries are projected for the financial year ahead. So, I think to ever suggest that that is not considered, is totally irresponsible. I also want to state, for your knowledge, that I chair the Minister’s mandate committee, and the Ministers of Finance, Education, Safety and Security, Health, Justice and Constitutional Development, as well as Defence, serve on the mandate committee. So, I did not quite appreciate that point, but I am sure that you will withdraw it on having this information.
I would like to thank everyone for their participation in this debate, and I want to conclude with a further quote, and in this instance I quote a former American President, Theodore Roosevelt:
The credit belongs to the man [or woman, I add] who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself (or herself) in a worthy cause, who at the best knows the triumph of high achievement, who at the worst, if he (or she) fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his (or her) place will never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Thank you very much for your comments and your acceptance of the vote. [Applause.] Debate concluded.
THE YOUTH AS A CATALYST FOR TRANSFORMATION, DEMOCRACY AND DEVELOPMENT
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr T S SETONA: Chairperson, hon members, comrades and friends, it is fitting on the occasion of a debate of this nature that one begins by quoting from the fountain of wisdom. In doing that, I will quote the late President of the ANC, Comrade Oliver Reginald Tambo, as I did in the past. He said, and I quote: ``A nation that does not value its youth deserves no future’’.
As we debate this critical topic today, it affords us the opportunity to assess the extent to which we as Government, and as society in general, have succeeded in bettering the lives of our people. It is important that we begin by understanding that the responsibility of bettering the lives of young people does not only lie with Government, but with civil society as well. In making this statement, I want to remind every speaker who is going to speak that from time to time, when we make our points, we must also reflect the extent to which our own organisations and communities are contributing in terms of profiling the lives of young people in this country.
This august House once again focuses its attention on this critical sector of our society, the youth of our country, which has occupied, and continue to occupy, a special place in a tapestry of the rich history of struggle to reclaim our motherland from white minority domination. Assembled here, after nine years of democratic governance, and three days before the 27th anniversary of the 16 June 1976 youth uprising, there is indeed great cause for us to pause and reflect on the extent our Government and society in general has accorded the youth of our country its rightful place in the ongoing struggle for democracy, growth and development.
History dictates that we proceed from the premise that before the breakthrough of 27 April 1994, the overwhelming majority of our youth - the black youth in particular - has known no life, other than a life of hardships, strife, misery, persecution and even death at the callous hands of blood-thirsty security forces. Racial inequities, poverty, endemic diseases, unemployment, and skills shortages that continue to define the lives of the majority of our youth are testimonies and legacies of young life under apartheid colonialism.
No doubt that the history of South Africa is written with blood, sweat and
tears of successive generations of young people in this country. The
culture of unassailable resilience of our youth for many decades of
apartheid repressive rule, is owed to no one but the founding fathers of
the premier youth movement of our country, the ANC Youth League, which was
founded in 1944. We owe it to the courageous and selfless leadership of the
likes of Anton Lembede, Oliver Tambo, Walter Sisulu, Nelson Mandela, Duma
Nokwe and others that, as the generation of the African century, we are
bold to declare this afternoon, and I quote: We look at our past with
pride and anticipate our future with hope and courage''.
To them, our forebears, we reaffirm our unwavering commitment to the cause
of an Africa where peace, democracy and prosperity will be the order of the
day. We reaffirm and reclaim their founding motto that, and I quote:
Africa’s cause must triumph’’. Like those on whose immediate footsteps we
are trotting today, the likes of Solomon Mahlangu, Barney Molokwane, Parks
Mankahlana, Peter Mokaba, Ephraim Nkoe and others, our generation is more
than determined to ensure that your death was not in vain.
On behalf of the ANC, I rise to join the nation and freedom loving people of the world to dip banners in fitting memory and salute all martyrs and patriots who perished in the line of duty to free our country from poverty, hunger, racial degradation and underdevelopment. In doing this, we will prove our detractors wrong. Our generation, despite difficulties ahead, will not rest until South Africa is liberated. In our view, the liberation of this country transcends the limits of political democracy. We will have achieved our liberation when the ideals of the Freedom Charter becomes a living reality that defines the lives of our people - and young people in particular.
We are making this statement because the youth of this country, young women, the rural and urban youth, constitute the majority of those who continue to bear the brunt of the the legacy of apartheid. We are proud, because our generation, following on the footsteps of the generation of the 1940s, demand opportunities. They don’t expect freedom to come on a silver plate. They appreciate and understand the huge backlog confronting their Government in undoing the legacy of apartheid.
In their own declaration to the country and to our Government in particular on the occasion of their march to Parliament this morning, the young people of country said, and I quote:
The youth sector fully appreciate what our Government has delivered to the people of South Africa, particularly the youth. As the country prepares to celebrate the first decade of freedom, the youth sector also has a good reason to be jubilant.
That was the declaration by the multiplicity of organisations represented in the South African Youth Council this morning when they marched to Parliament. This is in full appreciation of the challenges the country is confronting in reversing the legacy of the past, whilst simultaneously committing young people to be at the service of the nation. This march to Parliament organised by the National Youth Commission, which saw the participation of more than 15 000 youth, across all racial and political spectra, is a testimony of the opportunities our Government has created for our youth to participate in the national life of our country.
Contrary to the narrow sectarian view of some amongst us, who find it
fashionable to hasten to call for the dissolution of the National Youth
Commission, participation of overwhelming numbers of our youth in the Youth
Commission organised march, has represented the resentment of our youth
against the fight back'' strategy. Our youth wants participation and co-
operation in resolving the problems of this country and their plight, not
some echoes offight back’’, which is reminiscent of cowboy tactics
representing the interests of a small fraction of our society. We must
assure those who are dreaming about the dissolution of the National Youth
Commission that their dreams will never come true, particularly when the
51st assembly of our people, the Stellenbosch conference of the ANC has
reaffirmed, in no uncertain terms, the relevance of the National Youth
Commission.
The National Youth Commission has fulfilled and continue to fulfil its core mandate which, amongst others, include the following: The development of a comprehensive national youth policy for our country, and of course they have developed that policy and it has been adopted by Cabinet; co- ordinating the work of various Government departments to ensure bias and cohesion in terms of youth development; the establishment of an interdevelopmental committee on youth by Government which annually reviews its impact on the youth is the fulfilment of the core mandate of the National Youth Commission. There are also ongoing flagship programmes by the National Youth Commission in collaboration with Government departments. These are programmes like the farming projects in the North West province, Free State, Western Cape and the Northern Cape, which are among the central projects that the Youth Commission has facilitated to fast-track youth development in our country.
It may be because these projects do not benefit the powerful and the privileged that they do not get any recognition from some of our detractors. The key critical test to measure the success or failure of the National Youth Commission must be located in the understanding of the fact that it is not an implementing agency of Government. For those who seek clarity on the core mandate of the commission, the following are the key words that define its functions and roles: Lobbying, advocacy, monitoring, facilitating and co-ordinating.
Obviously, arising from this understanding, no sane person can expect the commission to create jobs. It cannot. No sane person can expect the youth commission to build schools, provide skills training for the youth and to distribute nevirapine for those who demand it. It is not their task. The commission can only facilitate and lobby implementing agencies of Government to do all these as and when it so agrees, and finds it necessary for such programmes to be implemented. It can only advocate, monitor and co- ordinate.
In this regard, we are proud to declare that the dominance of the youth unemployment on the agenda of the Growth and Development Summit over the last week is one major success of the National Youth Commission which we all ought to celebrate. For the first time in this country, labour, Government and business agree that if the country does not take conscious decisions to empower the youth, it has no future at all. I speak with no fear of contradiction that the youth of our country is inspired with hope by the work of the NYC and it will not dissolve, because if we capitulate to the demand of dissolving the commission, we will insult many young people who died for this freedom. In conclusion, let me say that our Government has created platforms and opportunities for young people to determine their own future. These young people are occupying the centre stage to grab those opportunities for their development. I must conclude by quoting the late Secretary-General of the SACP, the giant of our continent, the late Comrade Moses Kotane, when he said:
At this hour of destiny, the country and its people need you, the future is in you hands, and it will be what you make of it.
I conclude by challenging Mr Raju, in particular, to come and tell us the vision of the DP, in terms of empowering the youth of this country, for a better future. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mr Raju has promised that he will pick up the gauntlet.
Mr F ADAMS: Chairperson, hon members, young people possess the drive, ability and potential to help both themselves and their communities. I believe that young people have ideas that need to be heard, thoughts that are worth heeding and capabilities that are worth harnessing. Youth mainstreaming must involve young people in all aspects of life. Youth participation and leadership must facilitate the role of young people in the political process, not just as voters, but as members of political organisations, heads of lobbying groups and candidates for elections.
Young people represent a large and motivated workforce. We must work to help young people achieve their own career aspirations. Youth are critical in the wellbeing of any nation. Not only can they contribute to society and the economy in the present, but they also represent the future backbone of a country. Any realistic attempt to meet human resource development targets must include opportunities for youth to invest in themselves through education and work programmes.
Particularly in the developing world, health issues are becoming a more prominent concern. Youth empowerment is becoming an increasingly important part of any strategy to address health issues. A combination of education and social change is necessary for youth to take an active role in protecting their own health and wellbeing from the risk of infection. They also need knowledge in order to help their families and communities support those living with HIV/Aids.
Youth are central to meeting the challenges of globalisation. Their energy and industry will be the engine of wealth creation and poverty elimination. Their empowerment is the key. There is no meeting the challenge without the full participation of the youth. Traditional formal education can give young people a great start in life, but does not always ensure that they will always be able to get a job. The conventional route from school to tertiary education does not exist for many young people. Unemployed graduates with technical knowledge who lack skills or experience that make them employable or enable them to start up their own employment ventures are a feature that we should take cognisance of. There is evidence that, with the right training and outreach support services, young people’s business ventures can achieve a good level of success.
The goal for young people must go beyond survival, to development and involvement. It is in their interest and ours to ensure that they have an adequate standard of living and protection from economic, sexual, emotional and physical harm or exploitation. But, global productivity and security will hinge on developing their full potential and engaging them, not only as beneficiaries but as participants and problem solvers.
In conclusion, I urge all young people to look outside themselves. I say to them, ``Don’t act like victims just because you feel politically powerless because you are young. You have choices in how you lead your lives, in what you get out of life and what you give back. It is your world, and it will be a better world with your involvement in it.’’ I thank you. [Applause.]
Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo neNdlu yonke, kunesisho esithi: Khulisa umntwana wakho ngendlela eyiyo, kuyothi uma esekhulile angasuki kuyona. Kukhona esinye esithi: Ukhamba lufuze imbiza noma injalo iphuma edunjini. Kwezaphesheya sithi: Like mother like daughter, like father like son.
Kuliqiniso-ke ukuthi intsha yethu iyikusasa lethu. Intsha yethu iyizimpiko zethu zokundiza kodwa lokhu kulele ekutheni ufundiseni na? Ukhulise kanjani na? Ulaye kanjani na? Uma utshale uthando uzoluvuna uthando kubantwana bakho seluthe xaxa ngoba ufuzo luyedlulela. Uma utshale inzondo uzoyivuna inzondo kubantwana bakho seyithe xaxa ngoba ufuzo luyedlulela. Intsha iphekwa ekhaya - emndenini, iphekwe emphakathini - esikoleni. Uma iphekwe kahle ikhanyisela umphakathi wonke ibe usizo emphakathini wonke nasesizweni sonke. Intsha iyadingeka kakhulu kuzo zonke izinguquko ezikhona emphakathini. Intsha iyadingeka entuthukweni yesizwe, emnothweni wesizwe, kungaba yimali, ezohwebo, ezolwazi nobuchwepheshe nasezindaweni eziningi ezandisa umnotho nentuthuko jikelele.
Akunciphe intsha ezokwandisa ubudlova nobugebengu, ukungalaleli nokungahloniphi, ukungazisi impahla yomunye umuntu nokunye nokunye. Konke lokhu kubuyela ekuqaleni lapho ngidlule khona ekuthini sikhulise, safundisa kanjani abantwana abayikusasa lethu. Imfundo iyisikhali esibalulekile ekuhlomiseni intsha yethu ekubeni abaholi abaqotho, abanolwazi nabazokuba ngumthombo wezinguquko kulesi sikhathi samanje.
Imfundo yabantwana bethu mabayithole ngaphandle kwezinkinga abahlangabezana nazo. Kuhle ngoba umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe wezemFundo uhlongoza ukuqeda le nto okuthiwa imali ekhokhelwa isikole. Leyo mali ifundisa kanzima izingane zethu. Umzali ongakhokhile, ongenayo imali ingane yakhe ibhaxabulwa kanzima … (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Hon Chairperson and the House at large, there is a teaching that goes: You must raise your child in the proper way so that he does not deviate from it when he is grown up. There is also a saying that goes: The water-pot resembles the cooking-pot, or: The small tuber comes from the big one. In English we say: Like mother, like daughter; like father, like son.
It is true that our youth is our future. Our youth are the wings with which we fly, but this depends on what you taught, how you brought up and how you advised them. If you sow love, you will reap even more love from your children, because heredity intensifies traits. If you sow hatred, you will reap even more hatred from your children. The youth is groomed at home - in the family, it is groomed in the community - at school.
If it has been well groomed, it enlightens the whole community and becomes useful to it and the whole nation. The youth is needed in the development of the country, in its economy, which could be finance, trade, technology, and in many spheres in which the economy could grow and development as a whole could take place.
The number of youth who spread violence and crime, who do not listen to good advice, who are disrespectful, who have no regard for other people’s property and engage in other forms of misconduct must decrease. All this goes back to what I mentioned earlier on, the issue of how we bring up and teach our children, who are our future. Education is a very important weapon in arming our youth to become dignified, knowledgeable leaders who will become a source of change at this time.
Our children must get their education without the problems that they come across. It is good that the Minister of Education considers abolishing school fees. Those fees make learning difficult for our children. A child who has not paid because his or her parent has no money, is severely punished.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mrs Vilakazi, that member is up on point of order, I presume. So, please take your seat.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: So, I still have time. I thought I was being cut off.
Ms G N SWARTBOOI: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just wonder if the hon member is prepared to take a question. I wanted to ask whether she is a member of any youth movement. [Laughter.]
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: I am not entertaining questions now. I am delivering a speech. I don’t want to be disturbed, please. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Continue, Mrs Vilakazi.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, a transition to a globally competitive economy while simultaneously attempting to consolidate democracy at home is about respect, having your voice heard, jobs, shelter, food and power. No democracy can exist on ignorance. To pull people out of the abyss of poverty, education and skills training have to be the helping hand. What type of skills are we offering our youth? Are they productive? Are they accessible? Are they affordable? Are they relevant?
Youth have to engage in survivalist strategies, and often have to face feelings of insecurity.
Lapho ngiqale khona ngithe: Khulisa umntwana ngendlela ofuna abe yiyo. Uma esekhulile ngeke asuke kuyona. [Ihlombe.] [When I started my speech I said: Raise your child the way you want him or her to be. When he or she grows up, he or she will not deviate from it. [Applause.]]
Nksz N C KONDLO: Sihlalo, xa ndiza kuhlomla kule ngxoxo isihloko sibaluleke kangaka ngolutsha, ndifuna nje ukuthi eneneni le ngxoxo iqhuba ngexesha elifanelekileyo kuba yonke le nyanga ulutsha lwaseMzantsi Afrika lwenza imigushuzo ebonakalisa ukuphila nokubakho kwalo. Kambe thina bemi baseMzantsi Afrika sinebhongo negugu ngolutsha lwethu ngenxa yegalelo elingummangaliso elenziwa lulo ekuziseni iinguqu kweli lizwe. Uninzi lwalo lwanikezela ngobomi balo ukuze sibe thina namhlanje babecinezelwe, ndaweni … (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)
[Ms N C KONDLO: Chairperson, as I am about to deliberate on this very important discussion about youth, I would like to say that in fact this discussion is taking place at a very crucial and appropriate time because during this month, youth of South Africa are engaged in programmes that serve to indicate that they are alive and want to be active participants in the development of their country. As citizens of South Africa, we are proud of our youth because of their considerable contribution towards change in this country. A majority of them gave up their lives in order those of us who were discriminated]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Sorry, hon member. Just a short announcement. There seems to be a problem with the interpreting. If hon members can bear with us on that point.
Ms N C KONDLO: Don’t forget my three minutes, Chair, for the interruption.
Kambe sithi uninzi lolu lutsha lunikezele ngobomi balo khon’ ukuze mna nawe samkele, singabacinezelwa, sixhamle inkululeko ndaweninye nabacinezeli. Sohlala siwakhumbula amaqhawe olutsha: ooHector Peterson; ooNolizwe Mnyaka; Anton Fransch; Ashley Kriel; iSixhenxe saseGuguleth. Sihlalo, uluhlu lude. Sithembisa ukuba kwabo amagama abo angazange abekho ezincwadini, mhlawumbi ekwathi ngendlela abathabatha ngayo inxaxheba asakwazi ukuthabatha amagama abo igalelo labo, igalelo labo asisayi kulilibala.
Okwesibini, ndifuna ukuthi ukuze idabi lokuguqula ubomi nokwakha ikamva elililo lesizwe sethu ukuze ilizwe lethu libe likhulu lilunge, kufanele siqaphele, senze izinto ezijongene nokuphuhlisa ulutsha. Amanani olutsha eMzantsi Afrika athi kuluntu lwaseMzantsi Afrika luphela ama-40 eepesenti lulutsha. Ngokunjalo, kumashumi amane anesithandathu ekhulwini abantu baseMzantsi Afrika abangekho msebenzini lulutsha.
Amanani olutsha oluphangelayo angaphantsi kwamashumi amabini ekhulwini. Inani lolutsha olungamaxhoba kaGawulayo liphezulu kakhulu. La manani asibonisa mhlophe uxanduva esijongene nalo njengesizwe. Kunjalo kufanele ukuba sitsho namhlanje ukuba mininzi imisebenzi kwanegalelo elenziwe nguRhulumente ukulungisa ezi meko.
Okokuqala, selibukhankanyile ilungu elihloniphekileyo uSetona ubukho beKomishoni yoLutsha. Uxanduva lwethu kukuqinisekisa ukuba ulutsha lwaseMzantsi Afrika, njengabantu abanyulelwe ukuba bamele abantu, bayazi ukuba yintoni umsebenzi wekomishoni, kwanokuba ziintoni ekufuneka ukuba thina njengabameli boluntu sizise kulutsha lwethu khon’ ukuze luze kukwazi ukuxhamla kwezi nkqubo. Okwesibini, mininzi imithetho neenkqubo kumasebe onke kaRhulumente ezijongene nokuphucula iinkqubo zolutsha. (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)
[The youth of this country gave up their lives struggling for the liberation of you and me and so that people who had been oppressed, we should enjoy freedom together with those who oppressed us. We will always remember the young lions like Hector Peterson, Nolizwe Mnyaka, Anton Fransch, Ashley Kriel and the Gugulethu Seven. Chairperson, the list is very long. We promise never to forget the others who contributed considerably to the struggle and whose names are missing in our records because of various reasons.
Secondly, I would like to say that in order for our efforts to change the lives of people and build a future for our country to materialise, we should stride carefully as we seek to develop the youth. Statistics show that 40% of South Africa’s population is made up of young people. They also indicate that 46% of young people are unemployed and less than 20% form part of the workforce. The number of young people infected with HIV/Aids is very high. These statistics indicate the responsibility our country is facing. Today, however, we are proud of the contribution our Government is making to address these conditions.
Hon Setona talked about the Youth Commission. As representatives of the people, our responsibility is to ensure that the youth of South Africa, know what this commission is all about as well as what things we need to do to make it possible for our youth to benefit from these programmes. In all Government departments there is legislation that is meant to guide and support these youth programmes.]
Whether you speak of the transformation of the child and youth care system in the Department of Social Development, that is meant to redirect youths that are involved in criminal activities to be diverted away from getting deep into the criminal justice system; whether you speak of the skills training programmes that are contained in the Department of Labour; whether you speak of the labour-intensive programmes, as contained in your Public Works Programmes; whether it is the multipurpose centres built by the Youth Commission, all these programmes that can be found in various departments are targeting young people.
Kwakhona, kumaphondo ngamaphondo, kumasebe ngamasebe sinento esiyibiza ngokuba licandelo leenkqubo ezikhethekileyo. [Furthermore, in the different provinces and in the different departments we have what we refer to as the special programmes unit.] We have what we refer to as the special programmes unit. These units, in all these different departments in the various provinces, are meant to target young people, women and people with disabilities.
Uxanduva lwethu singamalungu ePalamente kukuqinisekisa kwiindawo esisebenza kuzo ukuba ulutsha luyazazi ezi nkqubo. Zonke ezi nkqubo ziya kuthi ukuze zisebenze ziye kulutsha ngqo ibe lulutsha ngokwalo oluthabatha inxaxheba ekuguquleni ubomi balo. Iyaqwalaseleka yokuba ulutsha oluninzi into namhlanje luthande ukungabi namdla kakhulu kwizinto eziphathelene nezopolitiko. Loo nto yenza ukuba ulutsha lwanamhlanje lunganiki ngqalelo kakhulu ekuqinisekiseni ukuba iingququ ezijongene nalo luthabatha inxaxheba kuzo.
Kambe ke, ndifuna ukucela umngeni kuthi ngokubanzi malunga nokuba ziintoni ke ngoko emasizenze ukuqinisa ezi nkqubo. Okokuqala, masiqinisekise unxibelelwano nentsebenziswano phakathi kwamasebe namanqanaba omathathu kaRhulumente, kubandakanywa imibutho jikelele ejongene neenkqubo zolutsha. Okwesibini, masijolise ngendlela eqhubayo kwiimfundiso ezakhayo, ubuncinane kulutsha. Kwakhona, ulutsha malunikezwe umkhomba-ndlela ngezifundo olunokuthi luzenze ezikolweni khon’ ukuze xa lupasile lukwazi ukuba luze kusebenzisa amava alo. Sinethemba lokuba ulutsha luya kuthabatha inxaxheba kuzo zonke izinto eziphathelene nalo. Ulutsha malube khona apho kuthatyathwa izigqibo ngabantu abatsha ukuze ilizwi lolutsha livakale. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[In addition to that, our responsibility as members of Parliament, is ensure that youth in our constituencies know about these programmes. In order for these programmes to be effective, they need to involve youth directly so that they themselves take part fully in changing their lives. It is becoming clear that nowadays youth are not showing much interest in politics. That results in the youth not making as much an effort in ensuring that they actually participate in matters that seek to change their conditions. I would, therefore, like to suggest a number of things that we could do to strengthen these programmes.
Firstly, let us ensure that there is communication and co-operation between departments and the three spheres of Government, incorporating all youth organisations. Secondly, let us teach them about morals. Youth need career guidance so that they could choose subjects that they will use their future when pursuing certain careers and in later return to their communities to share their experiences. We hope that the youth will not hesitate to participate in all programmes that are established for them. They need to be part of the decision-making bodies about matters that relate to them.]
We note with interest, in the GDS agreement adopted on 7 June, three or four days ago, that there are programmes that are targeting young people in particular. I wish to refer here to 4.5 of the GDS agreement, where young people who are at school are clearly targeted in terms of programmes that will ensure that those learners are able to be trained whilst at school.
Sithi ke, ezaa njongo zibhalwe kwisivumelwano i-GDS, ulutsha maluthabathe inxaxheba luqinisekise ukuba eziya zinto azithethwa nje phaya, koko ziyenzeka. Loo nto ithetha ukuthi imibutho yolutsha kufuneka iqinisekise ukuba eza zigqibo zithatyathwe kwi-GDS ziyamiliselwa.
Omnye umceli-mngeni, okhoyo nakwesa sivumelwano i-GDS, yindlela nemiqathango yokufunyanwa kwemali-mboleko ngabantu abalulutsha xa befunda ezikolweni. Ungaze wothuke indlela ekukho imiqobo ngayo ekuncediseni ngakumbi abantwana abahluphekileyo ukuba bafumane ezi mali. Ezi mali ziphela zingayi kwaba bafundi bekufanele ukuba babe bayazifumana.
Xa ndiza kuhlala phantsi, ndifuna kwakhona ukuhlaba ikhwelo kule mibutho ityala izimali kwiiprojekthi ulutsha ekufanele ukuba lube luyaxhamla kuzo, malunga nokuba imiqathango ebekwe phaya ejongene neenkqubo zaMashishini asaKhasayo ayikholeleki. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.) [We, therefore say that the youth should ensure that the objectives stated in the GDS agreement are implemented. That also means that youth organisations be visible and be effective. Another important aspect in the GDS agreement is about bursaries. One would be surprised to know about conditions that are set in such a manner so as to exclude young people, especially those from poor backgrounds. These funds end up not going to the students for whom they were initially meant.
In conclusion, I would like, again, to call upon all companies and organisations that fund projects from which youth should be benefiting to review their conditions and regulations because SMMEs are finding it very difficult to access the funds.]
Those conditions and regulations should be eased a bit, such that young people can be able to access some of these resources.
Xa ndiza kuhlala phantsi, ndifuna ukuthi, … [As I am about to sit down, I would like to say …]
… the ANC Youth League, as the leading political organisation for young people in this country, must continue to lead by mobilising young people around or behind the transformation agenda. Also, the ANC Youth League should continue organising young people behind the ANC to ensure a sustained ANC-led regime in this country. If the youth league does not do this, our democracy is in danger of being hijacked by the neoliberal agenda, and that would lead to the reversal of all the gains achieved through the sweat and blood of the young people of our country. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Mr N M RAJU: Hon Chair, hon special delegates, hon colleagues, I am not going to respond to the cheap and unfounded allegations against my party sucked out of thin air. I consider the subject for discussion a dignified subject, and I will not stoop so low as to belittle our youth. [Interjections.]
Never before in the history of a nation has its youth experienced such trauma and suffered such trials and tribulations as during the latter years of the apartheid regime. The 1976 Soweto schools uprising, driven by impatient and restless students, rose in a damaging swell. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Raju, please take your seat. Hon member, are you rising on a point of order?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just want to know from the hon member whether the DP is taking a stance of stooping so low that they do not have a youth policy? [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That is not a point of order. Carry on, Mr Raju.
Mr N M RAJU: Chair, I shall certainly engage that speaker on that subject on a different occasion at a different platform.
I said the 1976 Soweto schools-uprising was like a mountainous, turbulent wave which swept aside the suffocating boat of bureaucracy that sought to keep the country’s downtrodden in a perpetual state of servitude. That epochal uprising of the young stalwarts of our country symbolises the grit and determination and indomitable spirit to rise above oppression and assert their dignity and freedom. Many, like Hector Petersen, died in doing so. Others, a whole generation of them, forfeited their education, and left behind the meagre remnants of comfort of home and heart to join the liberation forces across the borders of the country. What heroic sacrifices! What monumental acts of valour in the course of freedom and democracy!
Today, the modern youth stands on the threshold of a free democracy. Their responsibilities are of a different nature than those of their predecessors. The youth, unlike their parents, do not have to ward off ``the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune’’. They stand at the doors of opportunities, but they do have responsibilities to grasp the opportunities in their myriad forms and become useful and decent citizens, to advance the cause of a better South Africa for all South Africans.
The Constitution of South Africa has committed the country towards a common nonracial and nonsexist society, which not only the ANC espouses, incidentally, for those who wish to listen. We see the youth as a catalyst for transformation and democratic changes, precisely because of their exuberance in seeking the abandoned joys of life.
As a sobering thought, when we look elsewhere in Africa, it is depressing to note the terrible situations where young boys and girls are involved as soldiers, fighting internecine wars and killing each other. To see the youth, the flowers of a nation, decimating each other is neither pleasant nor inspiring.
Let me hasten to acknowledge that the youth of today are not all guilty of living wayward lives. But we must accept the unfortunate fact that we have another war on our hands, that is, the HIV/Aids which stalks the land, and the youth seems to be the main victims.
We must look at the many role models in our country, in almost every sphere of activity, who stand as shining examples whom the young could emulate. On the one hand there is Mbulelo Mabizela who, at only 21, stands out as captain of Orlando Pirates, one of our top teams in the country. Is he not an inspiration to our youth? On the other hand, we have the unfortunate case of Jabu Pule who is a good example of a youngster falling victim to an unsavoury lifestyle. He has succumbed to the pressures of life in the fast lane.
We are aware of the many side attractions, distractions and temptations that lurk on the highways and byways of the lives of our youth. Of course, the guiltiest and most despicable one is the ubiquitous television with its American rottenness, sexual licence, guns and shootings. They all reside in our lounges. I implore our youth to cultivate discerning tastes in watching such programmes, in reading literature and in watching videos, and to be careful in choosing their company, because there is such a creature as peer pressure, which can be really dangerous waters to navigate.
We call upon the Government and the corporate world. They dare not let us down. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr G A LUCAS: Hon Deputy Chair, I understand … mojamorago ke kgosi. Go raya gore gompieno ke kgosi ka gore ke ja morago. [… one who perseveres reaps the greatest benefits. This means that today, by speaking last, I would speak the longest.]
From the debate today it is evident that neither the IFP nor the DA has a policy or any understanding regarding matters of youth development. It is obvious that they are alienated from the course of youth development in our country. I think our people must pardon them, because their only vision is to oppose the ANC. Therefore, they serve no purpose in society but to oppose the ANC. The election is going to demonstrate again that they will be disintegrated into oblivion,and history will judge them by what they stand for today.
A month ago, we were laying to rest Tata Walter Sisulu, a veteran of our
revolutionary struggle. He was part of a collective of the generation of
the 1940s, a generation that defined its mission as: Freedom in our
lifetime''. A Nigerian revolutionary, Frantz Fanon once said: A
generation defines its mission, fulfil it or betray it’’. Tata Walter
Sisulu’s generation, in no uncertain terms, fulfilled their mission. They
waged a relentless struggle against apartheid colonialism, until they
defeated it. And, yes indeed, they attained freedom in their lifetime!
Young people in our country have never, under any conditions, betrayed our revolutionary course. We can rest assured that this generation too shall not betray our noble objective, namely the creation of a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society.
This year, as we mark the 27th anniversary of 16 June, we are once more reminded of our terrible past; a past that knew no peace; a past that disregarded women’s lives; a past that had no respect for children, youth and the elderly and everybody else; a past that survived on lies and corruption - the list is endless.
As we celebrate this 27th anniversary in the ninth year of our democracy, it is only fitting that this year the theme calls upon all young people to seize the opportunities of our democracy. But above all, it also calls upon them to lend a hand in pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Like true revolutionaries, young people have to answer to this clarion call positively. Throughout the length and breadth of our country, young people are seizing the opportunities created by our Government. But they are also actively involved in pushing back the frontiers of poverty.
Hon Chair, grant me this opportunity to remind those who have a very selective memory, like the hon Raju and the DA, those who suffer from memory lapses, particularly those who are part of the DA, that just over the past nine years, youth development in our society has made great strides. Firstly, we have institutions at national and provincial level of governance that are leading issues of youth development. Secondly, Government has adopted a youth policy for 2002-07. Thirdly, we have established a youth fund called the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, which already has committed over R500 million to various youth development initiatives in our country. Fourthly, young people are organised under the umbrella of the South African Youth Council.
These are just but a few tremendous strides we have achieved over the past nine years. The DA seems not to know this. What a shame!
Hon Chair, again give me the liberty to deal with the myth that those with a selective memory, those who propagate half-truths, always speak about, and that is the matter of youth apathy. The facts are as follows: Today we have more than 100 000 young people who are volunteering in a number of initiatives in our country. If you should visit police stations, clinics, schools and pension paypoints today, you will find volunteers doing their daily work there. The majority of those volunteers are the young men and women in our society. Is there apathy in that regard?
I want to remind hon members of that party that last year, when we hosted the Cricket World Cup, we mobilised more than 100 000 people as volunteers to welcome our visitors. Are these young people patriotic, or are they apathetic? That is the question that the DA and everybody else must begin to answer.
Today young people are organised in various capacities. They are engaging in constructive activities to build a better South Africa. These activities may be of a cultural, organisational, political, sport, recreational or economic nature. It is a fact and not a myth, hon Raju, that young people are organised and are actively involved in shaping a better and prosperous society. Those who are alienated from young people, those who are allergic to youth activism, will spread lies and distortions about youth patriotism.
The President has said that the tide has turned. I can assure the youth of our country and continent that, yes indeed, the tide has turned.
Over the past weekend South Africa has hosted a very successful summit on growth and development. Concrete and practical steps have been outlined by the Growth and Development Summit. Those steps include the addressing of youth unemployment, skills development and youth entrepreneurship. Notably, included amongst these, is the Youth Solidarity Fund, young working people who have committed themselves to contribute one day’s gross salary towards youth development. Secondly, clear mechanisms have been put in place to roll out the national youth service programme. Thirdly, concrete plans have been put in place to ensure that 72 000 young people, women and people with disabilities have access to the learnership programmes in our economy.
This is what our Government is doing. The question is what are the DA and the IFP doing to address issues of youth development in our society? But leave them to history. History will judge them. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 17:20. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 11 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
(i) National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30
- 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76) [Bill and prior notice of
its introduction published in Government Gazette No 24935 of
30 May 2003.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
Environmental Affairs and Tourism of the National Assembly, as
well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 12 June 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bills may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
National Council of Provinces:
- Membership of Committees:
(1) Ms N C Kondlo has been elected as co-chairperson of the Ad Hoc
Joint Committee on Reparations with effect from 3 June 2003.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:
Government Notice No R.665 published in Government Gazette No 24870
dated 16 May 2003: Fire Protection Regulations, made in terms of
section 20(2) of the National Veld and Forest Fire Act, 1998 (Act No
101 of 1998).
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
-
Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety to the Convention on Biological Diversity, dated 9 June 2003:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety to the Convention on Biological Diversity, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.
The Committee, however, appeals to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to keep it abreast of further developments around the Protocol.
Furthermore, th-e Committee appeals to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to promote and facilitate public awareness, education and participation concerning the safe transfer, handling and use of living modified organisms, as is stated in Article 23 of the Protocol.
Report to be considered.
THURSDAY, 12 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Transport:
(i) National Road Traffic Amendment Bill [B 31 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 24701 of 4 April 2003.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Transport
of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
13 June 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bills may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
Petition from the National Youth Assembly presented to the Speaker of
the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of
Provinces.
Copies available at the Office of the Clerk of Papers.