FRIDAY, 13 JUNE 2003 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 09:38.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                       REDUCTION IN REPO RATE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Dr E A CONROY: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Raad -

(1) met tevredenheid kennis neem van die verlaging van 150 basispunte in die repokoers wat gister deur die President van die Reserwebank aangekondig is en wat ‘n welkome verligting aan miljoene Suid- Afrikaanse verbruikers bring; en

(2) verder die President van die Reserwebank aanmoedig om verdere verlagings in die nabye toekoms ernstig te oorweeg en te implementeer. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with satisfaction the reduction of 150 basis points in the repo rate that was announced yesterday by the Governor of the Reserve Bank and that brings welcome relief to millions of South African consumers; and

(2) furthermore urges the Governor of the Reserve Bank to give serious consideration to and implement further reductions in the near future.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                    RECENT DISCOVERY OF GASFIELD

                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) rejoices at the discovery of gas offshore north of Saldanha Bay this week by a US firm exploring off the South African coast;

(2) notes that the gasfield is estimated to have reserves of 13 trillion cubic feet, which is about half of Britain’s total North Sea gas reserves and is a considerably bigger find than any other off the South African coast;

(3) further notes that, according to the Forest Oil development plan for the next seven years, this will lead to three large combined cycle gas turbine power stations, new gas-to-liquid fuel plants at Saldanha Bay and hundreds of kilometres of undersea and overland pipelines to convey gas to many towns for industrial purposes;

(4) expresses its joy at the fact that this will create thousands of jobs for our young unemployed matriculants and will produce clean burning fuel and more gas for industrial and heating purposes, which will be better for our environment; and

(5) expresses the view that members of the Council should -

    (a)      take up their cudgels and ensure that our country does not
          fall prey to foreign investors who will eventually control our
          resources as the Firestone company controls the rubber of West
          Africa, and the oil of Nigeria and Ghana is now in  the  hands
          of investors from outside Africa; and


    (b)      ensure that labour-intensive methods are used  as  far  as
          possible to enable more men, women and young  people  to  earn
          their own living and have a stake  in  this  resource  of  our
          motherland.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

           REFERRAL OF ORDER NO 4 AND ORDER NO 5 ON ORDER
                      PAPER TO SELECT COMMITTEE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the proposed Pan South African Language Board Amendment Bill and the proposed Promotion of Multilingualism Bill, as well as the reports of the Select Committee on Members’ and Provincial Legislative Proposals thereon, appearing on today’s Order Paper as Order No 4 and Order No 5, be referred to the Select Committee on Education and Recreation in accordance with Rule 180(2)(b).

I am doing so on the basis that these items deal with a private member’s proposal in terms of Rule 179(3). When a committee considers the desirability of that proposal, and there is a possibility that it may have financial implications for the state which might affect the decision on the desirability of that proposal, it should then refer the matter to the Chairperson of the Council, who would in turn refer it to the relevant select committee. It is my submission that in the case of Order No 4 and Order No 5 there was an inadvertent omission to do so, and consequently, in order to ensure compliance with Rule 179(3), I propose that the matter be referred to the Select Committee on Education and Recreation, within whose ambit this proposal falls.

May I also mention that I have communicated my intention to all the provincial Whips and all the party Whips, as well as the relevant member and the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Private Members’ and Provincial Legislative Proposals concerned, and the view is broadly shared that this is the correct procedure to adopt. I would imagine that the question would have to be put to the delegations of the different provinces in terms of section 65(1).

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I should imagine it would have the same effect, but the procedure in terms of section 65 would mean that it would have to be referred to the heads of the delegations from each province. So, in order to ensure compliance with the procedure, I assume that this would be referred to the heads of the delegation for assent. However, I imagine the effect is much the same.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Thank you very much. I hope the heads of the delegation all agree that there is no problem. All the heads of the delegations are here: Do you all agree, just for the sake of the record? [Interjections.] I can see Mr Africa also agrees. So, the motion is agreed to.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

    Policy debate on Vote No 5 - Provincial and Local Government:

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Chairperson and esteemed members and delegates to the National Council of Provinces, yesterday was an important day in the lives of all those who are intimately associated with local government in our country. Mayors, councillors, municipal managers, traditional leaders and MECs from all corners of our country, as well as representatives of various support and service organisations, assembled here in Cape Town to witness the launch of the Municipal Performance Excellence Awards, also known as the Vuna Awards.

The initiative is the result of a collaborative effort, involving the South African Local Government Association, the Department of Provincial and Local Government, the Development Bank of Southern Africa and the National Productivity Institute. It is part of our strategic intent to cultivate a culture of performance and a continuous improvement in the performance of our municipalities.

The event not only introduced yet another measure to complement such existing mechanisms for sharing best practice, as the knowledge sharing facilities and the cities’ support and learning network, but it also celebrated the growing maturity of the local government sphere.

Chairperson, within a period of under three years since its inauguration, the local government sphere has already established its credentials as a significant player with respect to attending to many areas of government priority. These include intervening to alter conditions which slow down productivity or deny us the possibility to attract investments that would stimulate local economies, create sources of locally generated revenue and make it possible for our people to access welfare enhancing basic services.

In various parts of the country people are experiencing the emerging system of local government as a major causal factor in the improvement of their quality of life. The residents of Alexandra Township, Galeshewe, the traditional areas which are now formally part of the eThekwini or Durban metropolitan municipality, are beneficiaries of the developmental impact of our new system of government.

The parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government was exposed to some of these realities when it recently conducted a study tour of 63 municipalities around the country. If the internal administrative systems of many of our municipalities are beginning to function with some modicum of efficiency, it is because some of our councillors and managers are giving it their best shot. These are the men and women who are producing best practices, which must be shared for the benefit of those municipalities which are still battling to overcome the lasting legacy of the system we have resolved to transform.

The absence of a functional and efficient local government sphere has, in the past, acted as a limiting factor for national and provincial governments to realise their developmental objectives, or to pursue their policy goal of improving social welfare. This brings into bold relief the necessity for bonds of cohesion between our three spheres of government. Some of the national and provincial support instruments for local government are already in place, for instance, steps have been taken to augment the institutional capacity of 39 out of 47 district municipalities. In those district municipalities we have established planning, implementation, management and support centres, otherwise known as PIMS centres. These centres will serve as a locus for ongoing capacity-building at the level of municipalities.

As we said in the National Assembly yesterday, we shall soon be establishing such centres in the remaining six district municipalities. The Ministry and Department of Provincial and Local Government are working very closely with all nine the provincial governments, and together with our 284 municipalities, conducted a comprehensive diagnostic assessment of the functional relationship between our spheres of Government.

We conducted a series of conferences in the provinces, with representatives of provincial and local governments sharing experiences about the way the system is working in their respective areas. It became clear to us that one of the areas which needs improving, is that of forging synergistic connections between provincial growth and development strategies and municipal integrated development plans. Since the outcomes of the provincial government and development strategies are simultaneously inputs for municipal IDPs and vice versa, it is also important for us to ensure that both the provincial growth and development strategies and IDPs are of the requisite quality. Thus, we have decided to pay greater attention to the task of improving provincial and local government’s capacity for socioeconomic planning. In addition, IDPs are meant to become increasingly central as instruments for intra-sphere planning, budgeting and co-ordination.

Following the diagnostic study I referred to earlier, it became clear that we need to make specific interventions in pursuit of the strategic goal of stabilising our intergovermental system. A total of 15 interventions were identified and these areas speak directly to the imperative of capacitating governmental structures across all three spheres. Thus, what started as an assessment of progress relating to local government, led us to adopt measures which reverberate throughout the system. So, local government transformation became a catalyst for fine-tuning and refining the entire intergovernmental relations system.

As hon members and delegates know, municipalities are required to prepare five-year IDPs with an associated financial plan. For their part, the provincial and national governments express their priorities in three-year Medium-Term Expenditure Frameworks.

The absence of alignment in the budgeting and planning regimes means that the system is not functioning as the cohesive unit it ought to be. The Department of Provincial and Local Government, together with the National Treasury is undertaking measures to correct this anomaly. This year legislative steps are also being taken to improve the alignment between provincial growth and development strategies and municipal IDPs.

Another important measure relates to the enactment of legislation on municipal financial management. This, together with the new programme of support to provinces, will seek to instil greater certainty and symmetry in the support, monitoring and supervising regimes that affect provincial and local governments.

In respect of intra-sphere co-ordination, the President’s Co-ordinating Council has succeeded in creating a measure of institutional discipline and predictability. There may well be a need, however, for refinements in its mode of operation. We also have Minmecs, which exist in both statutory and nonstatutory forms. It is only in a few sectors, such as finance and education, where these are statutory structures.

A similar pattern exists in the provinces where intergovernmental structures have been established. These vary in purpose, composition and modus operandi. All in all these structures lack a common set of rules and protocols and are currently too fluid. Our strategic priority, therefore, is to strengthen and increase certainty, stability and predictability in our intergovernmental system.

One way in which we seek to strengthen the intergovernmental system, is through the joint implementation of critical development programmes. Some of these critical programmes, including the consolidated municipal infrastructure programme, the water services programme, the Community-Based Public Works Programme, the sports and recreation programme, the national electrification programme and the urban transport fund.

Substantial increases have been made in the consolidated municipal infrastructure programme between the 2003-04 and 2005-06 financial years from over R2 billion to about R4 billion. And these increases demonstrate the kind of investment Government will be making over the next few years.

Of particular importance this year, is the establishment of the municipal infrastructure grant. An initial amount of R50 million has been allocated. Government will seek to co-ordinate and integrate key capital and infrastructure initiatives better. In the implementation, national, provincial and local governments will be given distinctive, yet complimentary, responsibilities.

The free basic services programme will also be intensified this year, with the support of our key infrastructure programmes. In the current year Government has set aside R1,1 billion for free basic services. This is set to increase to R1,6 billion in the 2005-06 financial year. The integrated sustainable rural development programme and the urban renewal programme will continue to be the principal co-ordination instruments across Government.

All the necessary core funding, basic planning and institutional systems are in place across national, provincial and local government and manifestations of positive impact already exist on the ground. We are also happy to note that the parliamentary portfolio committee has identified the urban renewal programme and rural development nodes as the next items on the programme of their study tours. We hope that as was the case after their tour of 63 municipalities, they will also share their insights with us in order to help increase our capacity for servicing these nodal municipalities.

Together with our strategic partners in the provinces and in municipalities, we in the Ministry and Department of Provincial and Local Government are feeling extremely bullish. We are thrilled by the tide which is progressively turning in favour of a South Africa on which so many have staked their lives - a South Africa which guarantees all its citizens a better life.

We hope, Chairperson and hon members, that we can continue to count on the support of the members of this House for a contribution which will make this tide irreversible. [Applause.]

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon MECs in this august House, the strides that we have made with our system of local government would indeed evoke a sense of immense pride in our founding fathers. For, when they declared their aspirations on 26 June 1955, under very trying conditions, detractors and the colonial oppressors could not comprehend these aspirations.

As we gather here this morning and attend to the matter of governance, all of us, the opposition included, are indeed declaring, once more, very loudly and clearly, that the people shall govern. I am also sure that several of us here in this august House will, in the course of making our input, quote the Constitution and other pieces of legislation of the new order. By so doing, we will associate ourselves with the Declaration of Human Rights and the current national project of renewing the people’s contract for development.

We often find ourselves on the threshold of a very intricate value judgment when we have to make an objective assessment of the strides that our local government has made thus far. In the majority of cases we have stable and progressive municipalities who are alive and on top of their responsibilities. We have not only declared our commitment to attend to rural communities, but we have also committed the necessary resources so that the rural areas remain our major focus.

As regards developmental nodes, the integrated sustainable rural development programme in particular, is a practical statement which indicates that the focus is more on rural areas than on urban areas. We are pleased to note the programmatic schedule designed by the Department of Provincial and Local Government. We surely need to address the outcry about the lack of involvement and delayed implementation caused by the lack of clarity of the roles, fiscal commitments, co-ordination, timeframes and seconding of the necessary personnel to these developmental nodes.

We sincerely hope that other departments and role-players will similarly commit themselves to specific well co-ordinated and integrated programmes, so that such projects proceed without further hindrance. We have said on many occasions that people should be their own developers in the spirit of reconstruction and development. The Integrated Sustainable Development Programme and the Urban Renewal Programme offer these opportunities to our communities once more.

Since the developmental nodes represent a drastic departure from normal development as we know it, it becomes imperative that all available opportunities are utilised for the long-term empowerment of our communities, to learn hands-on about project management, business planning, the tendering process and much more. The PIM-centres are doing sterling work and should be encouraged to do more.

We believe that the relevant SETAS should be drawn in, in order to formalise and possibly extend learning areas to sustain the communities, long after the project has been finalised. Perhaps it is here that the suggested community development workers will find their feet. No part of the country, however, is being neglected in so far as development is concerned. This is illustrated by the number of LED projects that are assisting communities in implementing local development. The displays outside this Chamber yesterday - and I think they are continuing today - by entrepreneurs from across the length and breadth of this country, bear testimony to the fact that, given the necessary support and resources, communities can do it themselves.

Up there in the gallery there are also entrepreneurs from inter alia Carolina, who came all the way from Mpumalanga to deliver their statement of intent on the LED projects. Many thanks to the Ministry for making it possible for our mayors, our councillors and all those entrepreneurs to be with us this morning.

This House is, inter alia, charged with responsibilities in the realm of intergovernmental relations. Surely we will not merely single out what we would like to do and then not do it. Despite the fact that it is uninteresting and we sometimes lack support, we still need to intervene when necessary. By intervention we do not necessary mean intervention only when there are problems. Surely our major focus is on section 154(1) of the Constitution, which calls upon us, in this House, as the seat of provincial government and local government in particular, to focus on prevention, so that the issues relating to section 139 and section 100 seldom arise.

We are challenged, however, to have more interaction and more measures in place. This is to ensure that, as is evident now, interventions in terms of section 106 of the Municipal Systems Act are becoming more frequent. These are not subject to timeframes. We are called upon to do so. Later this year we will be dealing with intergovernmental relations and focus on these areas. We should see to it that we do not tread on each other’s toes. We should not stand by idly and expect somebody to do our job for us, so that, indeed, we know that we are interdependent and each sphere of government is supporting the others.

During the intergovernmental forum briefing, we learned about certain wastages that are taking place in municipalities. This is a situation that demands the necessary attention from those municipalities. In one case it was said that a municipality was losing up to 40% of its water due to leakage and other wasteful management. We call upon these municipalities to see to it that they indeed practise good governance. I am sure that the municipality mentioned, is not the only one, since there are others who have not as yet been singled out. Good governance means that the utilisation of available resources is paramount in their actions.

We have also noted with concern the level of municipal debts in some of these municipalities. This is not a good measure for our intergovernmental relations. We call upon those departments that still owe money to the municipalities to do the right thing and pay up. Perhaps, this is an issue that we should take into account when we consider allocations to departments and municipalities, so that we deal with the debts of each department at national level.

We had the opportunity to visit the disaster management centre in Pretoria, in order to familiarise ourselves with the readiness of that unit in the Department of Provincial and Local Government. We are certain that the department is ready to implement this piece of legislation when it comes into effect. We have also noted that some of the provincial departments are not yet up to scratch as far as their preparedness to implement this piece of legislation is concerned. We also call upon them to do the necessary work in this regard.

It is with some concern that we note that our major stakeholders in local government, and indeed the only institution that has the privilege of participating … [Interjections.] We would like to see this organised government being part of us. We know they are stretched thin in that they have many responsibilities, but they should also see their constitutional mandate in this regard.

Mr S L TSENOLI (Free State): Deputy Chairperson, this intervention will be a brief one. I would like to link my remarks to the Minister’s observation that yesterday’s launch of the Vuna Awards is a very significant step in our overall transformation of local government. These awards not only provide an additional incentive for all of us in local government to pool our resources to make the biggest impact in improving the quality of life of our people on the ground, but also provide resources to those municipalities that win the awards, so that they are able to use them creatively and innovatively to continue on their successful paths. And for that reason we congratulate the Minister and the department on that initiative.

There is an important shift taking place in our local government transformation programme, and that shift has arisen as a result of the progress which we are making in terms of our intergovernmental relations. In this regard, in particular, I refer to the resources that go to municipalities. Some of the resources that went through our provincial departments of local government now go to the municipalities themselves, because we have arrived at a situation where we have legal clarity and policy certainty in respect of our local government transformation programme, regarding which work was previously still in progress.

I referred during my speech in the debate on housing in this House, to the reality that, as the National Minister of Finance has said, increasingly more resources are becoming available to us, as the management of our economy improves daily. So, in local government, I am referring specifically to the increasingly large equitable share that is going to municipalities. In the Free State, specifically, R94 million went to municipalities in the previous financial year and this amount will increase to about R117 million in this financial year.

This attests to the fact that our progressive and stable approach to transformation is bearing fruits. I am referring to this shift because it also relates to the decentralisation of powers and functions to the municipalities, which are under consideration and which we have not rushed through. For example, with the allocation of the powers and functions, although temporary for now, we have been able to assist municipalities in the interim to finalise their budgets. As we are speaking now some of them have already finalised their budgets. The issue of the powers and functions was central to them in deciding what resources they would need for the spheres for which they were responsible. It has been a very important process as far as I am concerned. I think that once we finalise this it will ensure an additional improvement in the quality of service at municipal level, by removing legal and policy uncertainty.

Our province is one of those that have been very successful in terms of the provision of free basic water especially, with other services slowly coming up as soon as clarity is arrived at. This is as a result of co-operative relationships between ourselves and other departments in this regard and providing municipalities with information and other support.

But there is a crucial point that I would like to raise here. Talking about co-operation, the Minister’s department and our provincial department held specific meetings so that public servants in the provincial and national departments were able to come together to identify common areas of co- operation, and so that these departments could regularly be in touch with each other and there was a learning programme on a regular basis. The interventions that we make together in support of local government should then be co-ordinated so that they will have a bigger impact. I hope that we will continue to do that work.

The conferences that the Minister referred to were crucial in adding to that co-operation and collaboration. The IDP is the key planning tool of all of Government - and I emphasise all of Government. The Minister will be glad to know that in February we held a meeting in our province between the premier’s office, our department and various national departments and provincial departments, including local government, as well as consultants who help municipalities with their IDPs, to discuss a variety of problems. That meeting was critical, in that it helped clarify our different roles and our different concerns about each other, in the process of the formulation of IDPs.

The study tour of the National Assembly makes an observation about the necessity for this, which the Minister also made in his imput here. It is an area where we are already doing some work, and we have been able to identify very important issues. But I would like to single out four critical areas. Firstly, as a result of our work with some of our partners in this area, specifically our partnership with Australia in local government support, we have arrived at the need to simplify IDPs - and in particular the process for their formulation. In order to reduce the dependency of municipalities on consultants, we increased councillor and community involvement in the integrated and development planning process as such and this is crucial for us to consider.

Mostly, when it comes to community involvement in our province, we are piloting community-based planning through our provincial capital. This is a deepening of local community involvement and participation in defining priorities but also in defining the allocation of resources in a deeper manner than has possibly been the case up to now. We think that this fulfils the requirements of the third overall objective of local government, which is deepening democracy and local accountability.

The third important aspect of this alignment - and I have referred to this

• is that we are already working to align IDPs with the Free State development plan. The Free State development plan has four strategic objectives: People development, sustainable infrastructure, economic development and job creation and good governance. At that February meeting that I referred to the intention was to review what was contained in the IDPs, the manner in which the provincial plan itself was reviewed and the IDPs themselves to ensure this alignment. In other words, work is already in progress to achieve exactly what we are talking about and we are very excited about this.

But the other point I would like to make about IDPs is that we as a department find it very destructive that, unless we do as we have done now with housing and proactively provide support in the form of people who are going to work with the municipalities to develop their sectoral plans, this will not happen. We think that we are the province that has undertaken this housing sectoral plan in a manner unlike any other province in the country.

It is instructive in the sense that we do not think that many of our municipalities have the capacity to generate funds and work with their national department on their own, without the sectoral departments themselves taking the initiative to provide support to the municipalities. In essence I think we need a more robust approach by provincial and national departments, to work with municipalities to provide this five-year sectoral plan with its annual components. When we speak about continuing support, the initial outline of a plan needs to have been put in place, in collaboration with the municipality. This will then facilitate the manner in which we co-operate and co-ordinate. For us this has been very important.

We do the same thing, for example, with disaster management. The gains we are making in service delivery will be severely undermined if we do not do the same with disaster management, linked to IDPs. To date we have started work around the implementation of the Disaster Management Act, and many of our districts have done tremendous work, with the support of the provincial department, to have their development plans linked to the IDPs - and for us that is crucial.

These are key aspects that are a challenge to us. At this stage, where we are engaged in local government transformation, leadership is the most important aspect as far as we are concerned. In what virtually amounts to a two-and-a-half-year mid-term evaluation, we have come to the conclusion that, increasingly, a passionate approach is what makes the difference in this instance.

The successful municipalities are those that have leadership and are cohesive, with very little, if any, conflict, with strong financial management and self-reliance. Information communication technology is going to be crucial, but only if we deal with the soft issues, the people issues, the leadership issues and conflict resolution.

Mr M BHABHA (Mpumalanga): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, and hon members, I am quite certain that during the course of this debate, a number of challenges will be raised, and rightly so. But in doing so, Chairperson, there is a distinct possibility of the impression being created that local government is not doing well. I therefore believe that it is appropriate that I commence with a simple question: What indeed is the prognosis?

From a political perspective, we see democracy slowly but surely being entrenched. We see stability way beyond our expectation. We see the development of a legal consistency and a predictability that is so necessary in governance. We see an appreciation of the need and the importance of accountability. We see the development of a corporate identity in municipalities. In essence, what we are seeing is the prevalence of law and order, and a growing appreciation of democracy from those that govern and those that are governed. What we are not seeing, Chairperson, is a state of anarchy. Instead, all the hallmarks of a civilised democracy become increasingly prominent.

The Minister and the respective MECs of local government deal with an area of governance, as opposed to the functions that our other MECs perform. The strategies must be such that a balance is maintained between ensuring a continuation of services on the one hand, and bringing services to those that did not have them before, on the other. With regard to the former, Chairperson, we can say, with a degree of confidence, that by and large the infrastructure of municipalities remain intact.

To put it crudely, robots still work, we still have water in our taps, and the garbage still gets collected. These are services that directly affect the quality of life of a resident in a municipality. We can safely claim that the fact that these services continue to be delivered at a quality comparable to the best in the world, is no mean feat. Indeed, one only has to walk downtown in central Johannesburg, or through Nelson Mandela Metro, or even Alexandra Township, to feel a sense of pride, for having not only maintained but also improved on what we found.

Chairperson, the provision of water poses one of the biggest challenges facing municipalities. The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry has decided to transfer the water schemes that they are currently operating to municipalities. There is a huge advantage in such a policy. For one, there will be a greater degree of political accountability. However, the actual implementation of the policy is a different matter. There are associated cost implications and administrative details that need to be assessed and addressed.

The challenge lies in ensuring that municipalities are in a position to take over these schemes. The details of the operational costs and capacity become extremely important. It is true that water is life. Politically and morally it is essential that there is a continuity of services, irrespective of the constitutional and administrative rearrangements that may or may not take place.

In terms of separate agreements between municipalities and the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, the department will provide funds for operational costs and technical expertise over the next three years. Thereafter, the operational costs will be included in the equitable share. We are particularly concerned about the state of the infrastructure and the schemes, and the cost to repair them. What constitutes operational costs, how costs are in fact calculated, and whether assistance should be limited to operational costs, are all aspects which must be discussed. The transfer of water schemes must be accompanied by a concomitant transfer of skills. We reiterate that the continuity of the service must remain our priority.

It goes without saying that we have one of the most progressive and sophisticated systems of local government. However, the success of our efforts will depend largely on our ability to implement the new system. In this regard I must highlight that we are facing two particularly vexing challenges. A somewhat disturbing degree of haemorrhaging of capacity from municipalities is taking place. The departure of skilled personnel is attributable to, inter alia, in terms of the reaching of pensionable age and better prospects elsewhere. With the departure of skilled personnel, we lose corporate memory. The challenge is to retain that memory and fill that vacuum immediately.

In small municipalities, where the core competency is small, the departure of one person could have dire consequences, particularly where such a person is highly skilled. These challenges are exacerbated by the fact that it is extremely difficult to attract skilled labour to small municipalities. Often the salaries are not competitive, and a small town does not have the attractions that would appeal to skilled people. In order to address this challenge, it is our view that talent will have to be nurtured locally.

We must hasten to add that the Minister’s policy and strategy, as encapsulated in the Revenue Enhancement Programme, to address precisely this challenge, is very promising. The creation of the Local Government Academy would go a long way in taking up this challenge.

Again I must reiterate, Chairperson, that local government is an area of governance, the development, policies and implementation of which, in every department at national and provincial level, impacts on the affairs of municipalities to varying degrees. We would go so far as to say that without strong local government many of these policies would not even have a chance of succeeding. It is in this context that the IDP of a municipality must be viewed. Far too often municipalities are not even consulted when projects from other spheres are implemented. This practice has the potential of wreaking havoc with the finances and plans of a municipality.

I must tell you, Chairperson, that we are pleased to be part of a very innovative and practical strategy that has been initiated by the Nkangala district municipality. They involved every provincial government department, including the DG of the province, in the formulation of the IDPs. With this process not only is there a buy-in from every department, but it is also hoped that each department will respect that IDP, before it implements a project in that municipality.

An interesting and very promising development is the establishment of what we now call `munimecs’, based on Minmecs. In terms of a Cabinet decision, MECs will engage the political heads in every municipality and intergovernmental forum on sectoral issues. The MEC of Health, for example, will engage with chairpersons of health portfolios in municipalities to discuss and address matters of health. Increasingly, the IDPs are also beginning to inform the policies of provincial government. Slowly but surely we are moving in the right direction. We can only be optimistic that with improved levels of planning, there will be improved efficacy in the use of our resources.

Incidentally, Chairperson, we have now moved away from the academic question, as to whether the creation of district municipalities was justified. Let me give you our view, Chairperson, and I think the Minister will be very interested to know it. We find that district municipalities are indispensable, particularly for proper co-ordination, regional support and planning, which is precisely what they were created for.

I must say that all these arrangements, are, however, voluntary and informal. With the huge investments made in IDPs, I would suggest that we go a little further than the Minister has, and possibly introduce a regulatory framework or even legislation to coerce - for lack of a better word - provincial governments, at least to start to respect the IDPs in the formulation of their policies.

Chairperson, in implementing the provisions of the various legislative instruments promulgated since the passing of the Constitution, we are suitably placed to observe the effects and efficacy of these provisions. It is in this light that I believe that the functions contained in Schedules 4 and 5 of the Constitution need to be reviewed. I believe that some of these functions are not properly placed, nor is there always consensus on the definition of what a certain function entails.

Do we, for example, have a common understanding of what potable water'' means? Do we have a common understanding of whatprimary health’’ means? Is it viable, for example, to locate the library function at provincial level, when it is being performed so well at municipal level? These are the issues we need to address. Before there is any question of assignment of functions, I think we should locate them correctly first, and this will require amendment. But this is purely for the purposes of functionality.

Let me conclude, Chairperson, by congratulating the Minister and the Deputy Minister on two things, namely their vision and, as part of that vision, the appointment of the DG. I am sure my MECs will agree with me that there is a genuine buzz and an excitement in the department with her at the helm. I know that we have so many more challenges, but we are certainly doing well. If we look back we have a lot to celebrate. With those words I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs and colleagues, this sector is characterised by one phrase, namely, lack of capacity.

There is a lack of capacity to bill people properly for the services they receive. There is a lack of capacity to collect the moneys people owe for the services they have received, and this, hon Minister, includes the amount of R1,9 billion owed by central and provincial governments to local governments.

There is also a lack of capacity in many municipalities to deliver on the ANC’s local government election promises and we are already on the eve of the next election. People were appointed to senior positions, such as municipal managers, who lacked the capacity to do their jobs. Nonetheless, these people received astronomical salaries. In some cases their salaries exceed the salary of our President. [Interjections.]

This lack of capacity also manifests itself in the fact that many local governments are not even up to date in submitting their financial records for auditing by the Auditor-General. Unqualified reports from the Auditor- General are the exception rather than the norm. Training and capacity- building are urgently needed, but provide only part of the solution. Nepotism and jobs for pals must be actively discouraged.

In these circumstances the DA will not support this Vote. [Applause.]

Mr T K FOWLER (Gauteng): Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister Mufamadi, Minister Botha, MECs, delegates to the NCOP, the historic mission of the ANC is to implement the principles contained in the Freedom Charter. The sum total of this mission is to undo the legacy of apartheid and transform the state into a developmental state which can then effect socioeconomic changes that result in a better life for all South Africans.

The key outcome which a developmental state strives to achieve is sustainable development. In the words of Samir Amin, a radical thinker from Egypt: ``The democratisation of the state is by definition an integral part of a development process.’’ It is this concept of development that has guided the concept of legislation that informs the transformation of the local government sphere.

I would, at this point, like to congratulate the hon the Minister and the Deputy Minister on the success of the Vuna Awards yesterday, but also for the detailed work that was undertaking in recent years and the results which are so visible in the presentation that has been made today.

Comrade Deputy Chairperson, I must say, I do not know which country the hon Lever lives in. It does not sound as if he lives in the one that I live in. So I want to take him on a short journey through one of our provinces, Gauteng, because it seems that he lives in a different country. [Interjections.]

Last year we launched the Municipal Institutional Support Centre to provide strategic support and to develop our municipalities. Treasury was included in the interventions made and financial support given in this regard, and municipalities such as Westonaria have markedly improved their collection rate from 65% to 90%. The MISC has provided support and performance management systems and municipalities are progressing well in implementing this system. Training with regard to general accounting practice is also being undertaken to prepare for the implementation of the Municipal Finance Management Act.

The central task of a developmental state is to address poverty by means of a multifaceted approach. The provision of quality basic services is central to a developmental programme. We are striving to provide water and adequate sanitation to all citizens in Gauteng by the year 2006 and have allocated some R250 million out of our provincial budget over a period of four years to this end. The programme also includes the eradication of the bucket system by the end of 2004, as a key element in improving the health conditions of our people.

All municipalities in Gauteng provide 6 000 litres of free basic water to every low-income household. However, this has not been implemented consistently within the province. There are several municipalities that levy a basic charge to access it. Tswane is leading the way in effectively implementing this programme.

We have urged municipalities to engage with farmers, where there is difficulty in providing free basic services, because of private land, to develop mechanisms for providing free basic services to farmworkers. The municipality of Motgale City has extended the programme to incorporate farm settlements.

A major challenge in respect of the provision of free basic electricity, Comrade Minister, is the historical separation between the provision of electricity to the erstwhile black local authorities by Eskom and the remaining areas by municipalities. Comrade Chairperson, the length of time the pilot programme by Eskom is taking has placed considerable pressure on municipalities because of community expectations regarding free basic electricity. The expectation that Eskom provides free basic electricity to all qualifying households, must soon be fulfilled.

The Alex urban renewal node is progressing well. This includes the completion of a people’s centre, the greening of the banks of the Jukskei River and housing that still has to be constructed. Our approach to development and service delivery is people-centred and aimed at ensuring sustainable communities. Ward committees play an important role as specific vehicles to ensure community participation and that the needs of communities are addressed.

Let me share with you an example of how a focused report for ward committees can contribute to democratic governance. The community of Zithubene in Ngygweni were dissatisfied, which resulted in tension and the homes of councillors and municipal officials being set alight. Through the assistance of the department and the province, the community and the councillors engaged in a process that resulted in an inclusive ward committee. Consequently the councillors and the community are together addressing the service delivery challenges in Zithubene.

We are continuing to provide capacity-building support to ward committees and councillors and community liaison officers. In March of this year 89 liaison officers and councillors from ten municipalities, including 900 ward committee members, were trained. As has been stated, community development workers have made an immense contribution towards providing that democratic link.

Preparations and consultations with municipalities are under way and we plan to roll out the first pilot scheme of community development workers by September this year. Accountability remains a key element of our democracy and the programmes that we have implemented are aimed at dealing with corruption and maladministration.

As you have so aptly said, Comrade Minister, the participation of communities in IDPs is central and municipal IDPs form the basis of planning for all spheres of government. The municipal IDPs have been assessed to ensure compliance and alignment with national and provincial programmes. In the last assessment received Municipal IDPs reflect that all municipalities have taken up the challenge and have developed a vision for the municipalities.

However, on the whole, IDPs have failed to provide a clear, overarching, integrated strategy and planning process. A need for proper systems and intergovernmental communication and improved alignment with municipalities has also been identified. In order to facilitate greater integration, the formulation of the Gauteng Integrated Development Plan or growth and development strategy is in progress. The outcome of the assessment of municipal IDPs will be incorporated in the GIDP, and the common strategies and goals and objectives of the province and local government will also be included.

Recently we passed the Gauteng Development and Planning Bill in the Gauteng legislature which makes the Gauteng Integrated Development Plan a legal instrument. It will include the 2014 process. Elements such as the Gauteng spatial development framework have already been concluded. The Gauteng Trade and Industrial Strategy has been concluded and is up for discussion, and there is an infrastructure backlog study that has been concluded and will be included in the IDP.

Sound intergovernmental relations are critical in providing effective service in an integrated manner. In Gauteng, we have the Premier’s Co- ordinating Forum and the Gauteng Intergovernmental Forum. As hon members are aware, in November last year we presented an assessment of the municipal IDPs as well as the provincial strategy for the year 2003/04. At the last meeting of our Premier’s Co-ordinating Forum which took place last month, we discussed the 15 interventions proposed by the President’s Co- ordinating Council and the conceptual framework of community development workers.

Comrade Chairperson, in conclusion, organised local government should play a central role in intergovernmental relations. Next week the Gauteng Association of Local Authorities will hold its annual meeting, where it will look at its capacity to improve its ability to contribute to intergovernmental relations.

Ho a loka mona Gauteng le Aforica Borwa. Ke a leboha. [Mahofi.] [Everything is going well in Gauteng and in South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Deputy Chair, hon Minister, hon MECs, hon delegates to the NCOP and hon members, when our former President, Tat’uNelson Mandela made his maiden speech in this House in 1997, he reminded members that the NCOP was set up as one of the core institutions of co-operative governance. Indeed, we have witnessed and experienced this over the past few years and commend the Council for the excellent work it has been doing to ensure that there is greater co- operation between national, provincial and local governments.

Our Ministry and department, as you know, is mandated to promote an effective, efficient and integrated system of intergovernmental relations between the three spheres of Government and the role that the Council has played thus far has made our responsibility so much easier. We wish to thank the NCOP for its leadership and support.

As we have moved into the consolidation phase of transformation, which is 2002-2005, during which period the systems and practices of developmental local government will be consolidated into municipalities, we also have to ensure stability, certainty and predictability in the system of intergovernmental relations.

One of our department’s priorities this year is to finalise the process of drafting the national framework legislation for intergovernmental relations in terms of the provisions of section 41 of our Constitution, and we hope that the draft Bill will be submitted to Cabinet in the next few weeks. This legislation should also provide for the appropriate mechanisms and procedures to facilitate the settlement of intergovernmental disputes. Coherent governance working collectively towards national objectives can only be achieved through the co-operation of all three spheres of Government.

For policies addressing development, poverty alleviation and service delivery priorities to be implemented effectively, we would need an approach which involves the three spheres of Government. Effective implementation is predicated on effectively co-ordinating strategic plans. Implementing common or joint development programmes on the local level is not possible if the strategic plans of the participating spheres do not speak to one another. It also creates difficulties when, for example, local government initiatives as contained in the municipal IDPs are not matched with the resource allocations of national or provincial government because there is no alignment of the strategic objectives.

Our department has experienced this difficulty in some of the development nodes we have been visiting recently. In the Western Cape, for example, we are in the process of looking at the alignment of the local IDP priorities and the provincial growth and development plan in both the Central Karoo rural development node and the Khayelitsha and Mitchell’s Plain urban development nodes.

The department has recently made an assessment of the IDPs and interactions with provinces in this process clearly indicated that an intergovernmental planning policy may be necessary to outline the most suitable system and mechanism through which alignment and co-ordination can be achieved with as little resources and as little time as possible. However, it is heartening to note that most provinces are making an effort to support municipalities in setting up systems for service delivery and building capacity at the local level.

The department has been given a role to co-ordinate and oversee the implementation of both the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Urban Renewal Programme. We have made significant progress in getting increased involvement and commitment from all three spheres of Government, as well as sector departments in the various nodes. Over the past year and a half, with the support of the national, provincial and local champions, we have seen the Urban Renewal Programme and the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme making a difference in the lives of the communities.

We have embarked on a programme of visiting these nodes in order to assess on a regular basis the progress being made and interact with people on the ground through the medium of imbizo. In Motherwell, in the Eastern Cape Province, there are plans for an integrated transport project that will not only create 277 new jobs but will restructure the transport system serving Motherwell in a manner that can be expanded in the future. In the same node, they are progressing well with an urban agriculture project that has the community involved in developing a ploughing field.

On a recent visit to the Central Karoo rural node, it was inspiring to see how well Government’s vision of tackling poverty was understood by technical champions and experts from various Government departments such as Social Development, Transport, and Environmental Affairs and Tourism, that are working together to promote development in the region.

We are planning to visit the Inanda node and the KwaMashu node in KwaZulu- Natal very soon. We have also been invited to visit the O R Tambo rural node. We would like to commend provinces for supporting the districts and local municipalities in these initiatives. The IDT has also played a tremendous role in the rural nodes, acting as a programme implementation agent. It is this type of partnership that characterises the work being done by the IDT in the development of the nodes and we must commend them on the work they are doing.

We recently received a report from the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government which confirmed that most of the municipalities they had visited had already established their ward committees. It is encouraging to learn that a diverse range of civil society organisations are actively involved in the ward committee structures, such as churches, young people, women, business, taxi associations, community policing forums and school governing bodies. Moretele Municipality in the North West Province is one example of a municipality which has very vibrant ward committees. The government of the North West Province has developed a training manual for the training of members of ward committees. This will go a long way towards assisting in the building of the capacity of those ward committees and enabling them to participate in the processes at local level. We must also commend the North West Province for the initiative they have taken to support ward committees. They have undertaken to assist wards committees by building small ward offices and providing them with basic infrastructure.

We missed an opportunity of experiencing first-hand the NCOP initiative of ``Taking Parliament to the People’’, when members visited the Taung and Mafikeng areas in March this year. We wish to apologise for the inconvenience our unintentional unavailability may have caused. It was due to bad weather that the aircraft to Kimberley could not take off on that particular day in time for us to be part of the proceedings. I thought we should just explain this today.

We welcome the work being done by the NCOP with regard to the issue of the institution of traditional leadership, and we have noted that this matter will also be taken to the people during the NCOP’s visits to the provinces. I will assist the department a lot in the processes leading up to the finalisation of the draft White Paper. The local government sphere is an important site for the transformation of South African society and for the effective delivery of services to local communities. It therefore becomes important for all role-players at the local level to participate equitably in the decision-making processes at the various levels.

The Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government, in its study tour report, also refers to the inadequate representation of women in senior management posts in the municipalities as well as in the ranks of councillors. However, most importantly, we feel that more attention should be given to addressing gender equality in our programmes of poverty alleviation and the IDP process. We are still receiving reports which indicate that in the provision of basic services, the municipalities do not take into account the special needs of women. The department made an IDP assessment study in April 2000 on poverty, gender and IDP, in South African municipal practices. This report is available and may be very useful for municipalities who are prepared to embark on this complex exercise of IDP gender mainstreaming. And indeed, the special needs of children, young people and people with disabilities need to be taken into account as well.

We would like+ to thank the members of the Council and the select committee, in particular, for the tremendous work they have done through their interventions in municipalities. We would also like to thank the director-general, Ms Lindi Msengana-Ndlela and her team for the sterling work they have done. During our absence they have been able to keep liaising and working with the NCOP.

We also want to thank the Ministry staff for their support; the parliamentary officers who have been keeping us informed as to what is happening in the NCOP and our involvement in the NCOP. We also wish to thank Salga, the Premiers, MECs, mayors, councillors, iinkosi and all our strategic partners who have supported us throughout this period. Most importantly, let me thank you, Minister, for your leadership, guidance and support. [Applause.]

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, MECs, distinguished guests, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, first of all, I must apologise for my MEC not being able to be present today. I will be delivering his speech on his behalf.

The President of South Africa, Mr Thabo Mbeki, speaking at the Commonwealth Local Government Forum, emphasised the need for countries to observe the local government declaration that was adopted at the World Summit for Sustainable Development in 2002. The declaration asserted, in part, that there are four interconnected principles for local governments which need to underpin and inform all efforts to combat poverty and build a just and sustainable world.

We constantly need to be reminded, when we meet, that we have a new democratic system of local government in place. We need to reiterate that all our efforts at the department are committed to supporting municipalities, by sparing no effort in facilitating a process for them to become viable entities, committed to quality service provision and efficient service delivery with the aim of improving the quality of life of the people which they serve.

However, as we are aware, the process towards achieving this is not smooth sailing, especially as municipalities rely on more than 90% of revenue which they have to collect to make this a reality. Given the poverty and unemployment levels in the province, the revenue raised from service provision is less than 60% of what municipalities is rising alarmingly and the outstanding debt of municipalities is rising alarmingly, making it very difficult for municipalities to fulfil their developmental mandate. Service provision debts owed to municipalities are in excess of R575 million, making it very difficult for municipalities to fulfil their developmental mandate. We would like to make a call to all residents of the Northern Cape, the business sector and Government institutions to honour their debts owed to municipalities.

Deputy Chair, we are looking forward to the enactment of the Municipal Finance Management Bill which will assist municipalities in managing their resources in an effective, efficient and economical fashion, emphasising responsibility and accountability. Equally so, hon members, the enactment of the Property Rates Bill will immensely increase the revenue base of municipalities, affording them the necessary resources to give effect to their developmental objectives. The above pieces of legislation will enhance the capacity of more of our municipalities to implement the national priority of free basic service provision to the poorest of the poor in our province.

A survey which spans the spectrum of municipalities indicates that currently 86% of municipalities are providing free basic services, which is limited to water only to the targeted beneficiaries. The status of municipal infrastructure which is either poorly maintained or inefficiently managed and, in some cases, insufficient equitable share allocation accounts for the remaining 14%. We are confident that the roll-out of the electricity component of the free basic services programme by the Department of Minerals and Energy will complete the full spectrum of the provision of free basic services.

The department will continue to deliver on its mandate of monitoring and facilitating the disaster readiness of the municipalities in compliance with the newly enacted Disaster Management Act. In this financial year an amount of R3 million has been made available to enable municipalities to acquire some fire-fighting equipment. Volunteers will be recruited and trained to utilise this particular equipment, which will improve the reaction time to fire-related disasters.

As part of the requirements for the IDPs, municipalities are supposed to have a performance management system in place, with key performance indicators developed with the communities, as part of the performance assessment of municipalities. The department has put processes in place to ensure that performance management development systems for individuals at municipal level are developed. This will enhance accountability and enable municipalities to realise the key performance indicators set out in their IDPs, as part of the overall transformation process at municipal level.

Another key programme in enhancing the viability of municipalities is the Municipal Support Programme. In the 2002-03 financial year we targeted eight municipalities at a total cost of R15,5 million. Those municipalities have been given the necessary institutional and administrative capacity to deliver on their developmental mandate. In this financial year the following municipalities have been targeted for support under the Municipal Support Programme: Mier, Magareng and Dikgatlong. The support to be provided will include, amongst others, building strategic, administrative, financial and human resource management capabilities and the funding of income-generated projects to improve the revenue base of these municipalities.

The following municipalities that were under the MSP in the last financial year will again receive support to finalise the programme in terms of financial capacity and human resource capacity: Tsantsabane, Emthanjeni, Ubuntu and Siyathemba. This programme will be at a total cost of R15,1 million in this financial year.

The viability of municipalities is intricately linked to a vibrant local economy. The rising costs of decent service provision, linked to the high unemployment and poverty levels faced by scores of our people, put payment of services beyond their reach, impacting negatively on the revenue base of our already struggling municipalities. The contribution of the department towards easing the problem of unemployment and providing much-needed jobs is through the local economic development strategy for local government.

We have just completed a capacity-building programme for officials and project steering committee members for all 19 projects currently funded through this project in all districts. This programme is, in the main, dealing with marketing, project management and promoting local ownership for these projects to become viable and sustainable projects in the long term. These projects have created 358 long-term projects and 287 short-term job opportunities.

In the current financial year we have allocated R5,5 million to the following new projects: Agri-business in the Emthanjeni municipality, a peanut butter production plant in the Magareng municipality and the development of a resort in the Hantam municipality … [Time expired.]

Mr D E AFRICA (North West): Hon Chair of Chairs, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hom members of the NCOP, and my colleagues the MECs, we are indeed living in interesting times for local government in South Africa. Local government is critical in the consolidation of our democracy. We as the North West, therefore, wish to welcome the Minister’s Vote and particularly its focus on free basic services and assistance to municipalities.

We think that we have reached a stage in which our concentration must be in the consolidation of the ward committees. It is our belief that ward committees are an important instrument for the continued consolidation of our system. We are particularly happy that a conference on ward committees has been organised by the department and we believe that it will go a long way in strengthening these essential instruments.

Ward committees, in our view, can create a platform for the participation of our communities, but that platform can only be possible if ward committees are appropriately capacitated. Without strong ward committees, the consolidation phase of local government will be seriously undermined.

In the North West Province we are currently piloting a system to strengthen ward committees by providing them with decent offices, computers and other necessities. We believe that ward committees should not be seen as ad hoc instruments, but should be consolidated even further to allow people the opportunity to utilise them as instruments in which they can inform the process of governance.

We are happy to inform this House that we are continuously reflecting on the need to strengthen our interaction with municipalities through our intergovernmental forum. We have realigned our intergovernmental forum so that it can even inform processes at the PCC. Our intergovernmental forum wishes to inform the House that it is functioning very well, and has even innovatively created opportunities for traditional leaders to participate in that forum, because it is our belief that stronger relationships with traditional leaders will help in the provision of services to communities, especially those under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders.

We are very concerned about certain national and provincial departments, but national departments in particular, that are dealing with delegation or agency agreements. We want to suggest that all current arrangements that various departments have, should receive the attention of the Minister. We believe that there is no greater focus on section 238 of the Constitution in dealing with these matters. We also believe that all national departments that are interacting with municipalities must be able to do so within the context of that provision.

We are continuing to enjoy greater co-operation with traditional leaders in our province. There is now a greater recognition among traditional leaders in our province that an enduring partnership between municipalities and traditional leaders is the only good thing to do to ensure that we are able to work together as partners in providing sustainable services and development to our communities. Traditional leaders in the province are playing an active part in all activities of our province and they are also demonstrating a desire to be part of the process of transformation and change. As a demonstration of their commitment, many traditional leaders are providing land for housing developments in many areas within the province.

As part of our effort to build stronger municipalities which we believe are essential to service delivery and the consolidation of our democratic system, we have established a municipal leadership and training academy to provide greater capacity to municipalities. We think that the leadership that municipalities or councillors provide to our communities must be such that we are able to inspire these communities to participate effectively. Our effort in building this capacity through this municipal leadership academy is an attempt by the province to consolidate and provide the necessary assistance to local government so that it can play a critical role in service delivery.

We are also happy that many of our municipalities have been able to complete their IDPs and we have done an assessment as a province to assist these municipalities so that the quality of these IDPs can be improved. We are confident that many of the municipalities, through these IDPs, are now going to orientate their provision of services properly and participate effectively in providing services.

We have noted and made certain suggestions to municipalities about how best they can improve the IDPs. We have suggested that there should be greater alignment between planning and budgeting. We have also suggested the need to improve disaster management plans within those IDPs, the need to improve financial plans and spatial development plans within those IDPs, and that they should also begin to focus more on environmental and waste management issues.

We have suggested that municipalities do a comprehensive analysis of the microeconomy at municipal level and how the microeconomy can fit into the macroeconomy, and draw a link between local economic development and come up with strategies that will ensure that municipalities play a key role in tackling issues of poverty alleviation. We have also advised municipalities to use the IDPs effectively to restructure the apartheid landscape, and have also suggested to them that they need to do a proper profile of the cost of providing services to all communities, given the distorted special patterns that they have inherited.

We think that if the municipalities can incorporate these elements into the IDPs then the exciting period I referred to will be even greater. The excitement that people will experience in participating in and being part of these municipalities will be enhanced.

There is no doubt that municipalities in our province, with all the problems that we know they are experiencing at the moment, will begin to provide a greater and greater service to the communities. We think that if more and more assistance can be given and there can be more co-ordination between national and provincial departments, we will be able to give more help to municipalities.

We are very happy that the Kgalagadi Node has been selected as a Nepad pilot. The Kgalagadi Node continues to inspire us, not only as a rural node, but as an example of how integrated governance can be pursued. We are happy that Kgalagadi, amongst the many nodes that exist, has been able to show how it can integrate projects and programmes at local level allowing municipalities themselves to lead.

What we appreciate even more, and what is also notable in the area, is the participation of women, young people and traditional leaders in the node. We think that, with greater assistance to this node, we will be able to create better opportunities and change the situation in the rural areas.

We want to thank the Ministry, particularly the Minister and the Deputy Minister, for their leadership and the department for the assistance they are providing to our municipalities. As the North West Province, we are happy because we have been informed that we will be used as a pilot for the NEF (National Empowerment Fund) centres in terms of the implementation of the IDPs and we appreciate … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr J HORNE: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister en LUR’s en lede van die Huis, ek neem met graagte deel aan die debat oor plaaslike regering. Die begroting as sodanig poog om plaaslike owerhede die nodige ondersteuning te gee, om sodoende hul primêre funksies te verrig deur middel van dienslewering op die grondvlak.

As ‘n mens na die begroting in sy geheel kyk en jy sien hoe ver daar gegaan word om munisipaliteite te ondersteun en te vestig, dan kom die vraag onwillekeurig by jou op: Wat is die rede waarom soveel munisipaliteite met rasse skrede sink, en dienslewering agteruitgang toon?

Die verantwoordelikheid van enige plaaslike owerheid is om basiese dienste aan sy kiesers te lewer en altyd te poog om sy dienste op te gradeer. Baie rade slaag egter nie daarin nie.

Met die afbakening wat in 2000 afgehandel is en die vermindering van munisipaliteite van 834 tot 284 het dit nie juis verligting of verbetering in die hand gewerk nie. Sommige bankrot munisipaliteite is bygevoeg by ander wat finansieel gesond was, en die nadelige uitwerking daarvan is nou sigbaar. Daar sal nou met hierdie werklikheid gehandel moet word. Baie van die pasgestigte munisipaliteite vind dit moeilik om die verskillende administrasies te konsolideer, asook die amptenare wat almal voorheen verskillende werksbeskrywings gehad het. Almal word nou in een organogram opgeneem.

‘n Mens is dankbaar vir wat die nasionale en provinsiale regering, asook die Nasionale Tesourie, doen. Tog bly baie van die munisipaliteite in gebreke om voor die spertyd hul finansiële state op te stel en in te dien, soos blyk uit die Ouditeur-Generaal se verslag. En waar konsultante aangestel word, word daar nie toegesien dat iemand in diens opgelei word om sodoende kapasiteit op te bou nie. Menige van die nuwe munisipaliteite het ook nog nie hul verordeninge aangepas en in ooreenstemming gebring nie. So is daar ook baie rade wat nog nie ‘n krediet- en beheerbeleid in plek het nie, en waar dit wel bestaan, word dit nie toegepas nie.

Die vermoë van verbruikers om vir hul dienste te betaal, is ook rede tot kommer, daar dit in die meeste gevalle nie aan moedswilligheid toegeskryf kan word nie, maar werkloosheid die oorsaak is. In sommige gevalle is 60% van die verbruikers afhanklik van staatshulp om vir hul dienste te betaal, wat beteken daar is nie ‘n normale vloei van geld oor die toonbank van baie munisipaliteite nie.

In die lig van genoemde feite, is dit baie duidelik dat ontwikkeling sodoende gekortwiek word, en plaaslike owerhede sal in die nabye toekoms geensins daaraan kan dink om eksterne lenings aan te gaan om sodoende ontwikkeling te bevorder nie. Daar sal na ander maniere gekyk moet word om projekte van die grond te kry, soos munisipaliteite wat sal moet kontak maak met die Departement van Openbare Werke vir finansiering, vir die opgradering van strate, asook met die Departement van Waterwese vir water- en sanitasieprojekte.

Ten slotte, agb Voorsitter, sal daar ook gekyk moet word na die salariskomponent binne die munisipale begroting, anders sit ons later met ‘n paneel van hoogs betaalde amptenare, terwyl die plaaslike owerhede moet spook om kop bo water te hou.

Ten slotte, Voorsitter, baie dankie aan die direkteur-generaal met haar personeel wat die gekose komitee deur hierdie begroting gelei het. Ek dink elke lid van hierdie gekose komitee verstaan die begroting en dat hierdie begroting daarop gemik is om munisipaliteite te vestig en te orden.

Die Nuwe NP steun die begrotingspos. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr J HORNE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and MECs and members of the House, I take pleasure in participating in the debate on local government. The budget as such endeavours to give local authorities the necessary support so that they can perform their primary functions by means of service delivery at grass-roots level.

If one looks at the budget as a whole and one sees how much is being done to support and establish municipalities, one asks oneself involuntarily: Why are so many municipalities going under so rapidly and why is service delivery deteriorating?

It is the responsibility of any local authority to deliver basic services to its voters and always to try to upgrade its services. However, many councils are not succeeding in doing this.

The demarcation which was completed in 2000 and the decrease in the number of municipalities from 834 to 284 did not really bring relief or improvement. Some bankrupt municipalities were incorporated into others which were financially sound, and the negative effect of that is visible now. This reality will now have to be dealt with.

Many of the newly established municipalities are finding it difficult to consolidate the various administrations, as well as the officials all of whom had different job descriptions in the past. All of them are now being included in one organogram.

One is grateful for what the national and provincial governments, as well as the National Treasury, are doing. Yet many of the municipalities are failing to compile and submit their financial statements before the deadline, as is evident from the Auditor-General’s report. And when consultants are appointed it is not ensured that someone receives in- service training in order to build up capacity. Many of the new municipalities have also not yet adapted their by-laws and brought them in line. Similarly, there are also many councils which do not yet have a credit and control policy in place, and where such a policy does in fact exist, it is not being implemented.

The ability of consumers to pay for their services is also a cause for concern, since in most cases non-payment cannot be attributed to stubbornness, but is caused by unemployment. In some cases 60% of the consumers are dependent on state aid to pay for their services, which means that there is not a normal flow of money over the counter of many municipalities.

In view of the abovementioned facts it is quite clear that development is being obstructed by this, and in the near future local authorities will in no way be able to consider making external loans in order to promote development. Other ways of getting projects off the ground, will have to be considered, such as municipalities contacting the Department of Public Works for funding for the upgrading of streets, and the Department of Water Affairs for water and sanitation projects.

In conclusion, hon Chairperson, the salary component within the municipal budget will also have to be examined, otherwise we will eventually be stuck with a panel of highly paid officials, while the local authorities have to struggle to keep their heads above the water.

In conclusion, Chairperson, thank you to the director-general and her staff who led the select committee through this budget. I think every member of this select committee understands the budget and that this budget is aimed at establishing and regulating municipalities.

The New NP supports the Vote. [Applause.]]

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, let me start off by expressing sincere thanks to all our mayors and councillors for their hard work and for the good work they are doing in our communities under trying conditions. We are all aware that some of the areas in which they are supposed to serve us are very fragmented and not properly demarcated. In some areas they had to start from scratch. In other words, there were no services. Keep on: ``lena bana ba Thulare’’ [You children of Thulare]. It is just like a fly that cannot quite reach the height of a great person but has to toil and toil like a proverbial miner, while his companions are still asleep.

Chairperson, I want to touch on the activities of our demarcation board. This is the body that was tasked to consolidate our areas into manageable and sizable municipalities. As one can imagine, that was not going to be an easy task. But, nevertheless, I want to congratulate and thank the Demarcation Board for what they have done which, to some of us, was a miracle. However, there are some areas where one can see that not much research was done before demarcating those areas. Hence, there are some areas that, in my view, need to be redemarcated or revisited.

The problem with some of our officials in some departments is that they like to take arm-chair decisions. In most cases when that happens there are likely to be some ill-considered decisions. I want to give only one example. In Bohlabela, one of the municipalities in Limpopo, there are some villages in ward 25 which are linked to ward 28, which is no less than 50 kilometres away from that ward. Some villages in ward 28, in the very same municipality, are linked to ward 25. That proves that some people did not do much research when taking those decisions.

As public representatives who are responsible, we took the matter up with the Demarcation Board and they promised to rectify that mistake. That was in the year 2000. I am addressing this matter because as you know, Chairperson, in our wards or municipalities, as was rightly stated by the hon Darkie Africa, the MEC from North West, for councillors to be effective and to be seen to be working, they need the assistance of ward committees and community development forums. The people I am mentioning are volunteers and they are not getting any incentives. To travel those distances, trying to cover villages that have erroneously been linked to other wards, is difficult and inconvenient.

The unfortunate thing is that the last time we heard from the Demarcation Board was in that same year - the year 2000. I want to believe, and I am hopeful, that they are possibly in the process of drafting a letter to respond to those requests. I know the Minister will say something about this. [Laughter.]

I know there are many areas with similar problems. I want to humbly propose to my Minister and my Deputy Minister: Could we task the Demarcation Board to sit down and revisit and re-examine some of these areas? There might not be many of them, but that will go a long way in ensuring that service delivery is effective. Bjale ke tsena go Thobela FM, gomme le ka tšeya dikwamantšu. Ge e le mohlomphegi Tona o a tseba ka gore ke ngwana wa Bokoni. Komiti e ile ya etela Disaster Management Centre go la Tshwane’a Mamelodi. Bašomedi ba lefapha lekhwi ba šoma ka maatla le bokgoni. Re ile ra kgotsofala ka mokgwa wo ba šomago ka gona. Bothata ke gore lefapha le ga le fiwe mašeleng ao a lekanego. Gopola fela ka moo ba šomago ka gona dinakong tša mathata a go swana meetse-fula le tšeo madimo a jelego bogale gomme a phušula meago le dintlo! Mošomo wo ka moka ga wona ba o dira ka go ithwesa-ka-letolo ka gore mašeleng a gona ga a nene. Thuša mohlomphegi Tona, lefapha le re a le bona le a šoma - ge go le mello kae-kae ba a tsena gomme ba thuša.

Ke rata go bolela gape gannyane ka ga Salga. Maisa a, mohlopmhegi Tona, ke bona go kare thipa di gana go sega. [Disego.] Tšhomišano ya bona le Ntlo ye ga e kgotsofatše. Polatefomo yeo re ba filego yona gore ba šomišane le rena ga ba e šomiše. Re kgopela go ka fa maatla a gore Ntlo ye ke ya bona gore ba tle ba kgone go šomišana le rena ka gore re a ba nyaka, go na le dilo tšeo e lego gore re ka se kgone go di dira ntle le seabe sa bona. Ge ba sa fele ba e tla mo go rena, re ka se kgone go kwa gore go direga eng le gore ba tshwenywa ke eng. Ke phošo go kwa dingongorego tša bona ge re etetše diporofense. Le gona fao ge ba tlile re ba leboga kudu. Gapegape, ge re ahlaahla Melaokakanywa, seo re se bitšago gore ke Bill ka leleme la gabo Mmamosadinyana …

E re ke kitime ka gore ke a bona gore ke šiilwe ke nako - ba nkwile. Ke a tshepa le mohlomphegi Tona o tla tsenya selepe ka gore ge re ka se dire bjalo re tla swana le batho bao … [Nako e fedile.] [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Now I am switching to Thobela FM, so you should switch on the listening devices. The hon the Minister understands, because he is from the North. The committee visited the Disaster Management Centre in Mamelodi, Pretoria. The officials of his department work very hard and with great skill. We are satisfied with the way they work. The problem is that this department does not get an adequate budget. Think how they worked during the trying times of heavy rains and when strong winds destroyed buildings and houses. They do the work on a tight budget as there is not enough money. Come to their rescue, hon Minister, you can see that the department is working hard - if there are fires anywhere, they help.

I want to talk a bit about Salga. Hon Minister, I feel that these gentlemen are failing. [Laughter.] The way they relate to this House is not satisfactory. The platform that we have given them to work hand in hand with us is not being utilised. We ask permission for the House to empower them to enable them to work with us, because we need them. There are things that we cannot do without them. If they do not come to us, we do not know what is happening and what their problems are. It is not right that we do not know what their concerns are when we visit the provinces. We thank them heartily for coming. And again, when we debate what we call Bills in English …

Let me speed up my presentation as there is not enough time - they have heard me. I hope that the hon the Minister will act, because if we do not do that we will be like those people who … [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mr G B BHENGU (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon MECs and colleagues, local government is a cornerstone of our democracy and the latest legislation has elevated it to a cornerstone of service and delivery in our country. The foundations upon which proper efficient delivery must be undertaken are accountable and sustainable traditional institutions, local governance, as well as sound corporate management.

Transformation of departmental administrative support systems is of vital importance for the enhancement of institutional performance capacity. However, uncertainty regarding the allocation of municipalities’ equitable share to the different categories of municipalities, as well as the lack of capacity-building on the part of staff, are serious impediments to service and delivery. I am happy, because I have heard from the Minister that they are aware of and are addressing these issues.

Legislation such as the Communal Land Rights Bill has the potential to put serious obstacles in the way of the present effort to implement the Integrated Development Plan in our country, especially in the rural areas, where the vast majority of the poorest of the poor live. The IDPs are instrumental in the transformatory process, hence an enormous capacity- building programme is needed, especially in rural and semirural municipalities.

The responsibility to deliver housing, water and so on, is very crucial for the creation of jobs. To deliver and meet the basic needs of our people, there must be solid growth and development planning among all levels in the local government hierarchy. We need to expand our rural community programmes at all levels by enhancing the skills and capacity of amakhosi and izinduna, thus creating more service delivery and access points. There cannot be solid progressive service and delivery in the rural areas without their active participation and leadership.

We need a solid assessment and evaluation of criteria in terms of the proposed implementation of the allocation of powers and functions to local government. We need to aggressively develop infrastructure, alleviate poverty and create more sustainable jobs. We must focus on the proper and solid implementation of the existing plans. Above all, we need to seriously re-examine the remuneration packages of municipal managers as this is a serious impediment to the development of service and delivery. The huge salaries of these officials burden the budget of small and rural municipalities in particular. Despite the guidelines issued to municipalities, there must be some regulation of the enormous personnel cost.

Municipalities cannot sustain themselves. However, how long are we going to allow municipalities to ignore the existing guidelines? Local government, as I have said, is the root of democracy and growth. We must nurture and cherish it. I commend the Minister for the efforts put into the development of local government and we cannot continue to chide the local authorities as we know they are still in their infant stage, and they are supposed to be helped by this House through the various provinces, as they perform their oversight function. [Applause.]

Mr M I MAKOELA: Chairperson, let me first start by tendering the apology of the hon J Maswanganyi, the MEC for Local Government and Housing from Limpopo, who could not be here today. Hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon MECs present and my colleagues, the local sphere of government has undergone many phases of change since the advent of a democratic dispensation in 1994.

In the Limpopo Province the transformation process has brought into existence 32 municipalities, six of which are district municipalities. Of significance is the fact that the process has brought into existence and introduced four new districts and 12 new local municipalities that did not exist before. In this final phase of structural and systematic transformation of local governance, the mandate to capacitate and monitor the local sphere of government becomes more acute and elaborate. This requires the charting of strategies and a sustained effort towards optimising the performance of local government structures.

Therefore, it is an achievement that we have operational administration systems in all our municipalities. Our municipalities have all adopted their IDPs that are the basis for all projects and developmental initiatives that would take place in the municipalities. Of the 27 municipalities in which the Department of Provincial and Local Government is piloting the performance management system, three are in the Limpopo Province, namely the Tzaneen, Musina and Waterberg Municipalities.

While this is the case, our municipalities are also receiving elementary training on the performance management system to prepare them for the roll- out of the programme. As a result of the department’s strategy for the devolution of powers from both national and provincial departments to local municipalities, currently in our province the Departments of Health and Welfare and of Transport are engaged in the roll-out of the devolution process.

Our country is confronted with the challenge of recovering the cost of municipal services from consumers. During this financial year, Limpopo Province will embark on a comprehensive debt recovery campaign in all municipalities in general, with a specific pilot campaign being targeted in six municipalities, namely Mogalakwena, Thulamela, Tubatse, Bushbuckridge, Lepelle-Nkumbi and Greater Letaba.

Limpopo has a total of 1 238 councillors, of whom 313 are women. We have entered into an arrangement with institutions such as the University of Venda and the University of the North to design educational programmes targeted at especially the youth and women councillors. We also have a partnership with the women’s foundation to train women councillors. These efforts are aimed at cultivating sustainability and relevant capacity required to enable them to effectively and meaningfully carry out their social and economic tasks and responsibilities in their quest to push back the frontiers of poverty.

The provision of free basic services remains a big challenge that is receiving ongoing attention and maximum effort. The nature of our province does not allow for the immediate blanket realisation of the above-mentioned policy. The relationship between traditional leaders and municipal structures has improved quite significantly, and their participation has increased.

Another factor in respect of the Limpopo Province is that our communities sometimes experience very turbulent times, in which disasters of one kind or another are the defining features of their lives. These unfortunate catastrophies require of us to develop strong capacity to ameliorate the distress in which victims often find themselves.

In this regard, the Limpopo Province has constructed a provincial disaster management centre to the value of R4 million. The Capricorn District Municipality has established its own centre at the Polokwane Fire Station. The latter centre will extend support to the municipalities found in the district, until the local municipalities develop capacity of their own. Road shows were undertaken to assess the status and capacity of municipalities to respond to fire disasters. We noted the need for the training of personnel in first aid and provisioning of infrastructure.

Lastly, the thrust of this budget is to further turn the tide towards a better life for our people. As the end of ten years of freedom draws closer, we can proudly proclaim that our Government does care for all our people. Our social and economic progress demonstrates that fact. [Applause.]

Mr G NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Chair of Chairs, I wish to join my colleagues in commending the Department of Provincial and Local Government for the clarity of leadership that it is providing us as provinces. It is a very cordial relationship that we are enjoying with the department, both at political and administrative level.

Clearly, Chairperson, we have good reason to believe that synergies are beginning to emerge in terms of clarification, with regard to how the vertical relationships in terms of performing our mandates are actually structured, and are going to be implemented. We commend the department for that. Both the Minister and the Deputy Minister have been very prominent in leading in this regard.

I will deal only with a couple of these themes here. I will deal with human resources, initiatives to enforce good governance, guidance, support, monitoring of municipalities, progress with regard to the provision of free basic services, progress in the definition of roles and functions of traditional leaders, LED projects, and in so far as that will be necessary, of course we will deal also with the state of readiness and challenges in implementing the Disaster Management Act. We will raise some of these challenges where necessary. With regard to human resources we are, in partnership with the Department of Provincial and Local Government and Salga, engaging in the training of councillors in financial management. This programme is proceeding very well. With regard to municipal officials, a needs analysis for all municipalities in the province has been conducted. The services of recognised tertiary institutions, like the University of Fort Hare and the University of Transkei and the Port Elizabeth Technikon, have been contracted to provide training for municipal officials to enable them to gain the necessary skills and qualifications to perform their functions effectively. This programme will get under way soon, and funding has already been transferred to these institutions.

We are also initiating a process of seminars on legislative frameworks for councillors, municipal officials and community structures, focusing mainly on ward committees which continue to be our Achilles heel. This exercise seeks to clarify the roles and responsibilities of each stakeholder.

With regard to the initiatives to encourage good governance in municipalities and improve the efficiency of public services, especially local government - the department is conducting walk-through audits, what we call walk-through compliance audits in all municipalities. This initiative is an attempt to determine the level of support that municipalities need to ensure that they comply with all the latest legislative prescriptions. The walk-through audit covers the following areas: governance, administration, financial management, service delivery and human resources.

We are convinced that this is the right thing to do. Experiences so far in terms of what we have done and gone through with municipalities is that it provides councillors, in particular, with a platform for them to be able to better understand, and learn the functioning of their municipalities, particularly at the administrative level.

With regard to guidance to, support for and monitoring of municipalities, since last year the department has embarked on the annual performance assessment of municipalities. A conference will be held in October this year, and municipalities will be assessed on improved and co-ordinated service delivery. This year has been declared the year of service delivery for our municipalities. The best performing municipalities will be rewarded. All municipalities will be supported in developing performance management systems by 30 September 2003. Achieving this will practicalise the monitoring and evaluation of municipalities.

A preparatory conference was held on 19 and 20 May 2003 to facilitate co- ordinated service delivery in the province, and to align the IDPs, the integrated sustainable rural development programme and the urban renewal programme. And this was explored in detail. It is true that provincial departments are not participating in the formulation of IDPs, and this is a matter which is receiving very serious attention.

With regard to the Urban Renewal Programme, the department has budgeted R30 million this year for the three nodes, that is Motherwell, Mdantsane and Ngangelizwe. And there we have already secured an amount of R3 million from the Department of Housing for feasibility studies for each of the three nodes. We are intending to engage in a major infrastructural development in the three nodes.

Progress with regard to the provision of free basic services to the communities, and the impact of the restructuring of electricity on free basic services, has been slow. Now that powers and functions have been finalised, municipalities will make visible progress. The provision of free basic services is also being provided for in the municipal budgets for 2003/04. The provincial department is working with the national department on the roadshows on free basic services.

With regard to progress in the definition of the roles and functions of traditional leadership and institutions, of course we have a standing conference with three standing commissions. Commission 1 is restoring the dignity and integrity of traditional institutions and leadership. Commission 2 is resourcing traditional institutions and leadership. Commission 3 is integrating traditional institutions and leadership into the democracy. These committees are composed of councillors and traditional leaders. I am pleased to announce that some traditional leaders are beginning to join municipal councils. These will soon be gazetted.

The challenge that is emerging now is subsistence and travel expenses to council meetings. We have been faced with a big question. One chief said: “I live in Malodi. I must attend a meeting in Mount Fletcher or Herschel, and my neighbour here who is a councillor is compensated for subsistence and travel expenses. I am not. I must pay my own way using my family’s resources. This is something that needs to be looked into.” We are involved in discussions with municipalities on this. Municipalities and ourselves are agreed that we need to focus very carefully on this, and that municipalities should also examine their budgets to ensure that we are not involved in unfairly discriminating against traditional leaders, and also that we are not inadvertently undermining the objective of Government to integrate traditional institutions into the democracy.

With regard to LED projects, there are successes and challenges. The highlights are: institutional arrangements are in place, there is a provincial co-ordination committee, and provincial approval committees are in existence and functioning well. There are sustainable projects with success stories - a bakery, cultural centres, tourist trails and so forth. A number of jobs have been created in 20 projects out of 48, valued at R30 million - 248 permanent jobs, and 1 295 temporary or seasonal jobs. Of the jobs created, 60% are held by women, 40% by young people and 20% by disabled people. Projects are linked to tourism strategy and other programmes. Marketing strategies are in place for most projects, that is: contracts are secured, strategic financial positions and making a profit in some of these projects; community involvement, particularly young people, and most of them women. Of course the intervention fund, the support that we are getting from the Department of Provincial and Local Government, is unbelievable in this regard.

At the programme level, we have challenges in respect of capacity, particularly at provincial level where equipment, transport, monitoring and evaluation are weak. At local government level the challenge pertains to the transformation of local authorities and unpopulated organograms. In other words there are no LED units in the sense of having a dedicated unit that deals with LED projects. Individuals are dealing with LED projects, and yet local economic development is the major responsibility of local government.

My colleague, the hon Barbara said something about communication and relations between the three spheres, and I am in agreement with him. We think that we need to strengthen the policies around the LED, local economic development and I am convinced that considering the way in which the department is operating right now, this matter is going to be resolved quickly. The monthly reports and provincial statements are also very weak. Because we are not just municipalities alone, but form a province as well. [Time expired. [Applause.]

Mr J J DOWRY (Western Cape): Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister Mufamadi and Deputy Minister Botha, MECs and hon members, may I congratulate the Minister, first of all, on his excellent speech yesterday in the NA, as well as this morning in this august House, and especially on the very impressive launch of the Vuna Awards yesterday in Cape Town. And I want to add the name of the director-general to this, for the very big role she played in this launch.

Let me start, Mr Minister, by giving you the assurance in this House that local government in the Western Cape is on a sound and solid footing. The last couple of months have seen the system of full-time councillors being implemented, and we are currently implementing the system of executive mayors and ward committees. By the end of this month most of the municipalities will have implemented this new dispensation. This is a practical step in the envisaged process of transformation of local government, putting us firmly in the consolidation phase where municipalities would aim to comply with Government policies and legislation, setting up effective budgeting processes and service delivery as well as monitoring mechanisms.

In the Western Cape, however, it was quickly realised that the process of transition in local government would be a far more complex and difficult exercise than was initially anticipated. We are also well aware that this was a tiring time for the councillors, officials and communities involved in the process, and different municipalities experienced the changes that were brought about by transition with different levels of intensity.

As part of the ongoing monitoring and evaluation of municipal service delivery, the department evaluates the progress municipalities in the Western Cape are making with the finalisation of key transitional activities by means of quarterly questionnaires. I am pleased to confirm that the most recent data retrieved from the quarterly Transition Grant Progress and Expenditure Reports showed that only eight of the municipalities outside the metropole in the Western Cape experienced progress below 70% with the finalisation of key transitional activities. Only two of these eight municipalities were measured on a percentage below 60%. This means that more than 70% of the prescribed actions that were required by the new legislation in terms of transition or establishment after amalgamation have been finalised.

The good progress made by the municipalities in this regard can be attributed to the support rendered by our department and assistance provided through the Local Government Support Grant by means of the Management Support Programme to finalise key activities. The most common outstanding issues are the finalisation of the organogram and the placement of staff. Unfortunately this has a negative effect on staff morale and their performance.

Section 154(1) of the Constitution places an obligation on National and Provincial Government, by legislative and other means, to monitor, support and strengthen the capacity of municipalities to manage their own affairs, to exercise their powers and to perform their functions. With this in mind I need to raise a few concerns.

In considering the provincial obligation vis-á-vis municipalities the general notion is to reduce it to a monitoring and supporting role with only a reactive focus. The fact that provinces also have a co-ordinating and regulatory role appears to be downplayed. To my mind there is a definite proactive role to play, especially with regard to regional planning and development, and I am convinced that a purely reactive role will be counterproductive.

The Department of Local Government in the Western Cape sees its role as being much more active, and, within the context of being the champion for municipalities within the provincial jurisdiction, in the way that we are proactive, value-adding, serious about our constitutional obligations to monitor, support, regulate and co-ordinate, striking partnerships and taking co-responsibility with municipal partners for our vision for successful municipalities.

I want to highlight two specific areas in which we have been enabled to play that role very effectively, namely the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme and the Management Support Programme. Both these programmes are funded by the national department, but with a definite and proper value-adding role by the province. We have been able to proactively influence infrastructure provision as a basis for optimal development, and ensure that capacity gaps are taken into consideration. Over R500 million has been disbursed through the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme with very positive results.

With the Management Support Programme we have likewise been able to proactively influence the way in which municipalities function in order to avoid problems, and to rectify deficiencies before they get out of hand. This could be done because we could back up our monitoring role with the ability to fund remedies.

Alhoewel groot suksesse behaal is in die Wes-Kaap met die implementering van bestuursondersteuningsprogramme, soos reeds na verwys is, is die fondse waarmee dit gefinansier word net beskikbaar tot die boekjaar 2004-05. Daarna word dit direk via die distriksmunisipaliteite gekanaliseer as deel van een groot kapasiteitsboutoekenning, en verloor die provinsie nie net hierdie belangrike fondse nie, maar sy rol in hierdie verband word ook misken. In hierdie stadium lyk die kanse ook maar skraal dat eie provinsiale fondse vir hierdie doel beskikbaar gaan wees om munisipaliteite te steun, sou ‘n finansiële krisis hulle in die gesig staar. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Although great successes have been achieved in the Western Cape with the implementation of management support programmes, as has been mentioned, the funds with which this is being financed are only available until the 2004- 05 financial year. After that they will be channelled directly via the district municipalities as part of one large capacity-building allocation, and then not only will the province lose these important funds, but its role in this connection will also be disregarded. At this stage it also looks as if there is little chance that own provincial funds will be available for this purpose to support municipalities if they were to face a financial crisis.]

In both these cases the proposed changes to the institutional structure for the disbursing of these funds indicate that provinces will be sidelined, and merely become monitoring agents which may be blamed after the event.

The supposed benefit of these changes will be to bring predictability into the intergovernmental fiscal regime, but my plea today is that because serious capacity gaps in the sphere of local government are still being experienced and must be taken into account when we make changes to programmes which have been functioning with great success in the Western Cape, we should reconsider the institutional and fiscal arrangements around these new grant systems in order to build on the success that we have achieved up to now.

Furthermore, the co-ordinating and facilitating role of provinces to ensure proper integrated planning and development must be taken into account. In this regard the value which can be added by the optimal involvement of provinces in national funding programmes, combining it with the oversight role, must not be underestimated.

In other words, these programmes are working and functioning in the Western Cape. Please do not change it. My advice would be not to tamper with the programme, especially in the Western Cape, where it is delivering excellent results.

Chairperson, the Disaster Management Act, which provides for a comprehensive, integrated and effective approach to disaster management in South Africa, can be rated as one of the best pieces of disaster management legislation in the world. The implementation of the principles contained in the Act requires a multi-sectoral and multi-disciplinary approach to disaster management by all three spheres of government. The desired outcomes will only be achieved with the establishment of the national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres, as prescribed in the Act. These centres, however, need to be staffed with competent disaster management officials, who have to be provided with adequate and appropriate equipment, systems and mechanisms to execute their disaster management task effectively.

My concern is that the necessary mechanisms to fund the disaster management function at provincial and municipal level are not clear at present. The provision of the disaster management centres with adequate staff and equipment is a very costly endeavour, which most provincial and municipal structures will not, as it stands at present, be able to afford.

It is very important that national Government takes note of the fact that the establishment of disaster management centres and the subsequent staffing of those centres are too costly for provincial and municipal structures to afford within their present budget allocation. It is therefore recommended that national Government assists with the necessary funding provision that will enable provincial and municipal authorities to execute their role and function as required in the Act.

Chairperson, hon Minister, the Western Cape has had its fair share of political instability, also at the sphere of local government. But I am confident in reporting to you today that stability has returned, and that our municipalities are focused. My main priority, coupled with the provincial vision of ``iKapa elihlumayo: Hope, delivery and dignity for the next decade’’, is to ensure a focus on service delivery in this year and the years to come. [Applause.]

Mr T RALANE: Deputy Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs, special delegates and members, the loss of Cape Town has really traumatised our colleagues from the DA to the extent that, MEC Mr Afrika, they do not live in the exciting times that you are referring to. Do you know what they are doing? They are building their own laager, by now mobilising 150 000 policemen and -women to fight back.

We in the ANC support this Vote, precisely because it seeks to address the problems that have been identified by our Government. [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Mr Chairperson and hon members, allow me to start off by expressing a word of thanks to all those who participated in this debate, including the Deputy Minister and the hon MECs who are here today. Further, allow me to acknowledge, in particular, the presence in the public gallery of some of the mayors, councillors, municipal managers and other partners who were here yesterday for the launch of the Vuna Awards. They stayed with us as we presented our budget to the National Assembly. They soldiered on to stay with us today. Sufficient words still have to be coined, to allow us to express our gratitude for this gesture of solidarity.

A number of speakers have noted the progress which is being made towards improving the functional efficiency of our system of government. Constructive suggestions have been made as to what else needs to be done in this regard. We have noted those suggestions with appreciation.

I want to single out at least three issues which arose in the course of our discussion and comment briefly on them. Firstly, there was the issue of municipal debt, which is indeed a matter of serious concern to us. Secondly, there was the issue of disaster management and, lastly, the brief comments which were made by Mr Lever in the House this morning.

Starting, as I promised, with the issue of municipal debt, I think it is now a matter of public record that, concerned as we are about this particular issue, we convened a national conference at which we presented results of research conducted as to the causes of this problem. I think that conference has played a very important role in helping us to identify the measures that need to be taken.

However, the specific element that was raised relates to the huge amounts owed to municipalities by provincial and national government departments. We have embarked on a process which seeks to eliminate this particular debt. We are working at establishing a new payment protocol through which government departments will be able to deal with their municipal accounts. We are certain that, with such a protocol in place, something that never existed before in the history of this country, when we come back next year, we will be talking about a new situation altogether.

Chairperson, we come next to the issue of disaster management. Firstly, with regard to the observations made by the hon Mr Mkhalipi, who said that a delegation from the NCOP visited the disaster management centre which is housed in the Department of Provincial and Local Government, I think, that these observations coincide with ours, namely, that we have an excellent disaster management facility within the Department of Provincial and Local Government. This observation can be confirmed by many communities which have been touched by the healing hand of this disaster management centre as they were seeking to recover from the devastating impact of disasters of one kind or another.

However, what perhaps needs to be highlighted, and has possibly been under- emphasised in the past, is that this disaster management centre actually has come to constitute an instrument to transform the nature of South Africa’s relationship with other African countries. Talking as an African, the word ``neighbour’’ in the African context conjures up images of interdependence and reciprocity. When you are in trouble in Africa, you can count on the support of your neighbour. To millions of Mozambicans, this country is a neighbour worthy of the name, in great measure because of the central role played by the disaster management centre in organising relief interventions after Mozambique was ravaged by floods.

Recently, the same disaster management centre co-ordinated nonmilitary teams and rescue structures, which included trauma surgeons, who went on a mission to Algeria in the aftermath of the earthquake. I am saying, therefore, that they have become an instrument through which we are transforming the nature of our relationship with neighbouring countries.

Mr Lever spoke, as he said, on behalf of the DA, about this sector'. I want us to underline the word this’. He said: This sector is characterised by one phrase, lack of capacity'. Remarks about the so-called this sector’, were limited to an expression of views about local government. That alone betrays the inability to understand that the Ministry and Department of Provincial and Local Government concern themselves with issues of Government-wide cohesion, and therefore, when we talk about local government, we talk about it as a sphere embedded in an interdependent relationship with other spheres.

However, we possibly need also to look at this much touted `lack of capacity’ which the DA, this afternoon, gives as a reason for not supporting this budget. There are three basic problems regarding this attitude. Firstly, it reflects the lack of consistency in the understanding of the DA of what is happening, at least in South Africa. Yesterday the DA supported this budget in the National Assembly … [Interjections.] … and conditions which prompted them to support it have changed overnight. [Applause.]

The assertion about local government’s lack of capacity is overgeneralised and undifferentiated. Indeed, we have increased the equitable share of all municipalities, including those that did not perform as well as we had hoped. However, what needs to be understood, with regard to the element of the increase in grants, is that this relates to capacity-building for these municipalities. But an element of the increase in the equitable share is also intended to subsidise the cost of payments which are made with respect to the delivery of services to the indigent.

If we take the position that the DA is taking, it means that we do not provide for subsidising the cost of services rendered to the indigent. It also means that we do not provide for the building of capacity of these municipalities. I want to state here and now that one can only put that kind of reasoning down to an unthinking aversion to the local government sphere. [Interjections.]

One cannot expect a responsible government such as ours is, to be complicit in an action which seeks to further disadvantage the indigent, an action which seeks to condemn relatively weak municipalities to a position of perpetual weakness. We are not going to be complicit in that, and I want to assure the indigent people of South Africa, as well as the municipalities which are weak at present, that they can, at least, take heart in the fact that people of goodwill remain in the majority both in this House and in society at large. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL
                AFFAIRS - SADC PROTOCOL ON FISHERIES

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Deputy Chair, I am going to try and behave myself as a disciplined cadre of the ANC. It is Friday today and I see I have only 10 minutes in which to speak on this protocol. I can assure you it will not even take me five minutes to do so.

The Southern African region straddles three great oceans, namely the Atlantic, the Indian and the Southern ocean. The coastline extends from Angola on the west coast, to Tanzania on the east coast. The coast is rich in fish, seafood, mangroves and coral reefs, as well as oil, diamonds and other mineral deposits. The region has a total of eight coastal states: Angola, Democratic Republic of Congo, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Seychelles, South Africa and Tanzania.

The exclusive economic zone of these countries is approximately five million square kilometres, and in most instances, the living marine resources of SADC waters are shared between two or more countries. The major issue for coastal countries of Southern Africa is the depletion of fish stocks by unsustainable levels of harvesting. Most of the region’s coastal and marine resources are under pressure from unsustainable raids and methods of harvesting, which results from an increasing demand on marine resources for food. There are also increasing incidents of pollution from activities on land, and from oil spills and the potential impact of sea levels rising, including inundation of major coastal settlements, with associated damage to the ecosystems and infrastructure and the displacement of populations.

Demand comes not only from the maritime countries, but also from inland nations. The Southern African Development Community Protocol on Fisheries was initiated at the workshop for inland and marine fisheries held in Windhoek in February 1997. Based on this work, three consultants visited all the Southern African Development Community member states to hold discussions with relevant stakeholders and to formulate the draft protocol. This was issued in December 1999 and immediately forwarded to the member states for amendments and their comments. These were presented to be discussed by national stakeholders in a regional workshop which was held in Lusaka in April 2000. The final version of this protocol was approved by all the fisheries Ministers in Maputo in May 2001.

The objective of this protocol is to promote responsible and sustainable use of the living aquatic resources and ecosystems in our SADC countries. It further notes that it is there to promote and enhance food security and human health and to safeguard the livelihood of fishing communities. Thirdly, it aims to generate economic opportunities for nationals in the region, ensure that future generations benefit from these renewable resources. Lastly, it aims to alleviate poverty with the ultimate objective of eradicating it.

Chairperson, the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs recommends to the Council that, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, we approve this protocol.

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question in respect of the second order. The question is that the report be agreed to. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain very clearly whether delegation heads are present. It looks like they are all here.

I shall now also allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration in terms of Rule 71 if they so wish. Is there any province wishing to make any declaration of vote? Obviously not.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms N C KONDLO: Mpuma Koloni siyaxhasa. Enkosi. [Eastern Cape supports.] Thank you.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Come again. I did not get that.

Ms N C KONDLO: Mpuma Koloni siyaxhasa. [Eastern Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you. Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: Free State iyakasa. [We agree.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms L JACOBUS: Gauteng supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Prince B Z ZULU: KwaZulu-Natal supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Limpopo e a o thekga. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: It means that you support it. Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKALIPHI: Mpumalanga iya segela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape iyawuvuma. [Northern Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr J J DOWRY: We do not support, Chairperson.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I have eight provinces voting in favour of this. The report is therefore adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL   AFFAIRS - CARTAGENA PROTOCOL ON BIOSAFETY TO THE CONVENTION ON BIOLOGICAL
                              DIVERSITY

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson and hon members, the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety to the Convention on Biological Diversity was ratified by South Africa, and this places an obligation on parties to the convention regarding the protection of biosafety and biodiversity. The obligations of the convention were very wide and this protocol narrowed them down considerably. The final text of the Cartagena Protocol was adopted in January 2000. Although South Africa had been closely involved in the development of the Cartagena Protocol, the country had not signed the protocol on time. The protocol contains references to a precautionary approach and reaffirms the precaution language and principle 15 of the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development.

The protocol also establishes a biosafety clearing house to facilitate the exchange of information on living modified organisms and to assist countries in the implementation of the protocol. In accordance with the precautionary approach contained in principle 15 of the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, the objectives of the protocol are: To contribute to and ensure an adequate level of protection in the field of the safe transfer, and the handling and use of living modified organisms resulting from modern biotechnology; to take into consideration the adverse effects of modern biotechnology on the conservation and sustainable use of biological diversity; and, thirdly, to take into account the risk to human health and specifically to focus on the transfer of boundary movements.

Chairperson, the implications of access to the protocol to South Africa are detailed. Because most of the provisions were already provided for South Africa, only minor amendments to the current legislation will be necessary. The capacity and resource commitment, however, will be significant and a steering committee will be set up with the relevant Ministers to take the process forward. Also, it was believed that the protocol would not impede biotechnology.

Chairperson, the report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety was dated 9 June 2003. The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety to the Convention on Biological Diversity, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approves the said protocol. The committee, however, appeals to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to keep it abreast of further developments around the protocol. Lastly, the committee also appeals to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to promote and facilitate public awareness, education and participation concerning the safe transfer, handling and use of living modified organisms, as is stated in Article 23 of the Cartagena Protocol. We move that this protocol be accepted by this House. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be agreed to. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain whether delegation heads are present.

I shall now also allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration in terms of Rule 71 if they so wish. Is there any province wishing to make any declaration of vote? There is obviously none.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms N C KONDLO: Mpuma Koloni siyaxhasa. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Rev M CHABAKU: Free State, iyakasa. [We agree.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng e a tlatsa. [We support the Bill.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Prince B Z ZULU: Siyahambisana. [We are in agreement.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Limpopo, e a dumela [Limpopo agrees.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKALIPHI: Mpumalanga iyawesekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: The Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape? Mr J J DOWRY: Ons steun, Voorsitter. [We support, Chairperson.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Eight provinces voted in favour. [Interjections.] I was looking at something else. Are you supporting Western Cape?

Mr J J DOWRY: We support, Chairperson.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces voted in favour. [Applause.] I therefore declare the report agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 12:36. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (a)    Annual Report of the South African Reserve Bank - Bank
     Supervision Department for 2002.


 (b)    Government Notice No 743 published in Government Gazette No
     25050 dated 31 May 2003: Appointment of members of the Amnesty
     Unit, in terms of section 23 of the Exchange Control Amnesty and
     Amendment of Taxation Laws Act, 2003 (Act No 12 of 2003).

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Strategic Framework for the Department of Justice and Constitutional
 Development for 2003-2006.