National Council of Provinces - 24 June 2003
TUESDAY, 24 JUNE 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The House met at 14:01
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We welcome the Deputy President who is back from Jordan. We hope that he had a successful visit.
SOUTH AFRICANS TRAVELLING ABROAD
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council calls upon the Department of Foreign Affairs to re- evaluate the bilateral travel arrangements that govern the movement of South Africans travelling abroad, including visa arrangements, and to ensure in all cases that -
(1) the imposts and constraints upon South Africans that travel and work abroad, including those in transit, are reduced; and
(2) the principle of reciprocity is applied and that South Africans enjoy similar privileges, including visa arrangements, accorded to visitors to our country from particular countries on a reciprocal basis.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
BAFANA BAFANA BEAT IVORY COAST
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -
(1) joyfully notes that the South African national soccer team, Bafana Bafana, led by its new captain Mbulelo Mabisela, beat the Ivory Coast in a hard-fought match at Polokwane on Sunday, 22 June 2003;
(2) further notes that the much vaunted Ivory Coast had boasted earlier victories over Burundi and former World Cup finalists Cameroon, but fell short at the hurdle provided in the form of a determined Bafana Bafana, who are now poised to move beyond Bujumbura where they seek just one point in the 6 July encounter against Burundi;
(3) believes that Bafana Bafana will then carry the nation’s flag to the African Nations Cup in Tunisia in 2004; and
(4) congratulates Bafana Bafana on their sparkling performances and calls on the nation to give their unstinting support to the South African coach Mr Ephraim Shakes Mashaba to “go for gold” and enhance South Africa’s bid for hosting the 2010 World Cup.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MICROSOFT PROGRAMMES TO BE AVAILABLE IN SOUTH AFRICAN LANGUAGES
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) daarvan kennis neem dat -
(a) Microsoft daartoe ingestem het om sy programme nou ook in
isiZulu, isiXhosa, Sepedi, Setswana en Afrikaans beskikbaar te
stel;
(b) dié versoek deur Gideon Joubert van Vriende vir Afrikaans gedoen
is; en
(c) 'n tweetalige kuberwoordeboek in Engels en Afrikaans deur die
toedoen van prof Christo Viljoen voltooi is en eersdaags bekend
gestel gaan word en dat taalkundiges entoesiasties en
bereidwillig is om mee te werk om die projek uit te brei na die
ander inheemse tale van Suid-Afrika;
(2) van mening is dat dié mylpale ‘n tasbare manifestering is van die waarborg wat ons Grondwet gee dat veeltaligheid nie net op papier bestaan nie, maar ook in die praktyk Suid-Afrikaners versoen en bemagtig ten einde Suid-Afrika ‘n wenland vir al sy mense te maak; en
(3) hierdie en ander Suid-Afrikaners wat hulle op ‘n positiewe wyse beywer om veeltaligheid ‘n werklikheid te maak, bedank. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) Microsoft has agreed to now make its programmes available also
in isiZulu, isiXhosa, Sepedi, Setswana and Afrikaans;
(b) this request was made by Gideon Joubert of Vriende vir
Afrikaans; and
(c) a bilingual cyberdictionary in English and Afrikaans has been
completed with the aid of Prof Christo Viljoen and will be
released shortly and that linguists are enthusiastic and
prepared to collaborate to extend the project to the other
indigenous languages of South Africa; (2) is of the opinion that these milestones are a tangible manifestation
of the guarantee our Constitution gives that multilingualism does not
exist only on paper, but in practice also reconciles and empowers
South Africans in order to make South Africa a winning country for
all its people; and
(3) thanks these and other South Africans who are striving, in a positive way, to make multilingualism a reality.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL'S CONTROL MEASURE AGAINST MALARIA
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council - (1) notes with appreciation the programme that was launched in October 1999 by the Medical Research Council as a control measure to reduce the threat of malaria in Mozambique, Swaziland and KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) is aware of the serious threat of this killer disease in these high- risk areas;
(3) further notes -
(a) with gratitude that, according to Dr Brian Sharp, the director
of the Malaria Research Programme of the Medical Research
Council, the regional control programmes have dramatically
reduced the rate of disease in these areas - in the 2001/2002
season the prevalence decreased by 70% in Mozambique, 64% in
Swaziland and 91% in KwaZulu-Natal;
(b) that this dramatic reduction has been brought about by the use
of DDT insecticide;
(c) that two of South Africa's most important tourist destinations,
namely the St Lucia area and the Kruger National Park, are now
reaping the benefits of these programmes; and
(d) with appreciation that the St Lucia area in KwaZulu-Natal is now
free of malaria; and
(4) salutes the Medical Research Council and especially Dr Brian Sharp on this outstanding achievement.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
RECOGNTION FOR MR HAMILTON NAKI WHO HELPED PROF CHRIS BARNARD
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) acknowledges the recent recognition by the University of Cape Town of Mr Hamilton Naki, an experienced sweeper and gardener, who was finally honoured with an honorary master of science in medicine degree last Friday, 20 June 2003;
(2) notes that -
(a) he assisted Professor Chris Barnard in his pioneering work in
the field of heart transplants;
(b) Mr Naki, who has no formal education, was able to assist
Professor Chris Barnard in the techniques of cardio-pulmonary
bypass and open-heart surgery - a miracle of God;
(c) his experience in anaesthetising a variety of animals in
research was so outstanding that he was recruited to do research
in the laboratory with doctors and students; and
(d) in his time, he was the only one who could anaesthetise a pig
and transplant its liver, virtually unaided - even in the case
of a giraffe no side effects were experienced and the
transplanted organs were not rejected;
(3) thanks God Almighty that Mr Naki’s gifts and talents have finally been acknowledged - these gifts exemplify the innate abilities of all people to learn and to serve this motherland of ours, even the mature citizens;
(4) congratulates him on his recognition and the University of Cape Town on the degree that they conferred on him even though it is at the sunset of his life;
(5) believes that this emphasises the value of Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) and the wisdom of the elderly; and (6) is of the view that the lifelong experience of Mr Hamilton Naki and his contributions should be collected, collated, edited and distributed to all schools, colleges and secular institutions as a source of inspiration, pride and motivation.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 21 - Correctional Services; Vote No 22 - Defence; Vote No 24 - Justice and Constitutional Development; and Vote No 25 - Safety and Security:
The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson, I am a member of a team called the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster of Cabinet which has the Interministerial Security Committee as its subcommittee. Given that I don’t see some of the members of that team here, I’ll be willing to take all the time that has been allocated them. [Laughter.]
The clusters have become a firm springboard for service delivery. There are many success stories that have accompanied the establishment of the cluster system. Our cluster, therefore, has ensured that the responsibility of security planning in this country - particularly as regards all the international and regional summits and conferences that have been held - is designed and implemented by this security cluster since the breakthrough to democratic rule in 1994.
Of course, there are still some weaknesses which are either a throwback to the past or were unforeseen and which, therefore, brought about unintended consequences. What is a success story, for instance, for the the SA Police Service and the stabilised court system which is under the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is causing problems of overcrowding at Correctional Services. There are thousands of prisoners who are in prison purely because they are unable to raise the bail resources that they need to post in order for them to be released from prison.
While it is true that some of our projects are taking longer than expected to be finalised, we are convinced that it is better to hurry slowly, given the circumstances we are dealing with. Such projects include the movement control system and the home affairs identification system which both reside under Home Affairs, and the improvement of police forensic laboratories, especially with regard to DNA testing. When these projects are completed, they are going to place our country within the family of technologically advanced countries in the world.
We are not the only ones in the world who are ringing in changes to bolster our criminal justice system. The United Kingdom, for instance, is among countries that have been reviewing their systems in the recent past. Whether they were looking at England’s criminal courts or rebalancing the criminal justice system, they have not been shy to depict the process as difficult.
The year under review has been a year of co-operation and, for that, I want to commend the MECs in the various provinces for their valuable inputs in the fight against crime. Much was achieved during this time, precisely because all those concerned with leadership in Safety and Security played their respective roles in maintaining the relationships that ensured proper delivery. This did not end up with those people within Safety and Security; it encompassed various stakeholders within communities. One cannot be thankful enough to various civilian structures that have put their shoulders to the wheel.
Community police forums continue to add value in the battle against crime and there are clear results in many areas in which the civilian input has been remarkable. There have thus been marked changes in this country with regard to police civilian relationships. This is the way it should be as police cannot be everywhere at all times. Public co-operation is crucial in the success of our efforts against crime.
The police have not lost sight of these sterling endeavours by the civilian population. Last August, in appreciation of these massive civilian inputs, police in Gauteng found time on Women’s Day to hand out roses to women to mark the day with authentic thanks for these efforts. Similarly, on June 16 this year, police gave various materials to youth in various parts of the country. Specially significant parts of these materials were large numbers of school memorabilia which included balls, water bottles, rulers, pens, etc that were given to children in Esikhawini, KwaZulu-Natal. These were small tokens of appreciation from the police for the co-operation given by communities. The efforts also improved understanding among the children that police were friends and protectors of communities.
From the outset, our budget has to be seen as continuing to address programmes and priorities outlined in the National Crime Prevention Strategy and the White Paper on Safety and Security. The approach we take is that there should be a dual emphasis: we must ensure that there is effective law enforcement and social crime prevention measures to reduce crime levels. This strategy brings together criminal justice system partners in an effort to develop joint processes to remove blockages within the system and to implement best practices around court management.
It is because of this understanding that Cabinet, among others, decided to include the Department of Social Development in the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster to ensure that, indeed, we have the necessary instruments to deal with social crime. Whatever strategies we work out to combat crime, it should be acknowledged that our efforts will not be appreciated until we reach a position where, in many instances, we can stop crime before it happens. To this end, our crime-combating strategy is designed to do this over time through visibility and mobility.
This strategy, as depicted in the strategic plan that was tabled in Parliament, displays a clear focus on combating organised, serious and violent crimes; commercial crimes; and crimes against women and children. It is further focused on those areas with the highest incidence of these crimes and seeks to stabilise crime rates in those areas. Indeed, crime has been stabilised in the majority of those areas.
Concurrent with our efforts to combat organised, serious and violent crimes, our strategy for the improvement of service delivery and the prevention of crime is gaining momentum. Now that the first of the new police recruits, who were specifically recruited and trained as part of our sector policing strategy, have completed their training, police will become more visible and effective in the areas where they are deployed. They will be deployed at smaller manageable geographic areas under the supervision of a sector commander.
Sector policing is a collaborative effort by all role-players in addressing the root causes of crime and contributes to effective crime prevention initiatives. It is in this environment that reservists will play a key role in both urban and rural areas. Given that we already had people who were not adequately trained performing this function, the deployment of the new recruits will boost both morale and performance.
Police and resource allocations are determined in accordance with a crime analysis pattern and informed by our priority crimes strategy. This means that as soon trends are established, either through intelligence or through changing trends, adjustments are made to meet demand. The department’s budget has grown by an annual average of 10,3% between 1999-2000 and 2005-
- It has risen from R14,6 billion to R26,2 billion. In practical terms, the increase is 10,6% on average between 1999-2000 and 2002-03; and 10% between 2003-04 and 2005-06.
As a strategic management objective, the department maintains an approximate 78% to 22% ratio split between personnel and nonpersonnel spending in the budget. From 2002-03 and 2003-04 expenditure on equipment and infrastructure is expected to grow in excess of 20%. However, from the 1999-2000 financial year to the 2005-06 financial year, capital spending has been growing and will continue to grow by an annual average of 18%.
To ensure an equitable supply of human resources to meet the ideal workforce profile, a multiyear human resource plan has been developed. In addition, career centres will be launched in three provinces to equip employees for possible career pathing and planning opportunities within the service and to promote the principles of job satisfaction and the right person with the right skills for the right job.
The human resources plan will provide for a forecasting profile of personnel losses, and provide guidance as to the quantity of workforce movement and recruitment required to realise and sustain an 85% operational workforce. In compliance with the human resources plan, the station staff establishment will be increased from 63% to 67%. The total SAPS workforce will also be increased this year from 131 560 to 140 560. This will provide a thrust to improve employment equity in the service. The improvement of employment equity in every sphere of employment of SAPS is being monitored and evaluated to ensure reasonable progress in achieving the necessary targets.
We are ever mindful of the need to nurture and support our most valuable assets - the policewomen and policemen - in order to ensure their physical and emotional wellbeing. Our employee assistance programme is designed to do just that. We will significantly increase the number of social workers and psychologists this year. The major focus of their work is to support police in trauma debriefing, stress management, substance abuse, HIV/Aids counselling, financial management and physical wellness.
In line with other major employers, the Department of Safety and Security launched an HIV/Aids awareness campaign on 31 January 2003. The first to be tested were the national Commissioner and the Minister for Safety and Security. This was not just a public show, but a commitment to specific efforts to help employees make a positive commitment to meeting the new imperatives raised by the rampant pandemic.
While the National Crime Prevention Strategy is followed up according to need and demand in the various provinces, great strides have been made and significant successes scored. The implementation of our integrated organised crime prevention strategy led to the neutralisation and disruption of numerous organised crime syndicates. During the period April 2002 to March 2003, illegal substances and stolen goods to the value of R45 million were seized or recovered as a result of organised crime prevention projects being implemented.
The other day we accompanied members of the portfolio committee of the National Assembly to one of our forensic laboratories around here in order for them to see the amount of drugs that we have confiscated around this area and the types of drugs that are on the market. I think that we should interest ourselves in understanding this particular issue, because it is one of those matters that, fighting as a collective and working together, we need to defeat.
As part of project Mochetefatse - I hope I have pronounced it properly - the organised crime unit in Bloemfontein has, for example, recovered 27 stolen vehicles valued at R2,9 million, while the Johannesburg organised crime unit arrested two suspects and seized more than 20 000 Ecstasy tablets to the value of more than R1 million during a disruptive operation in the province. My MEC from Free State tells me that, given the fact my Sesotho is of a very high quality, he may not have understood what I was saying. [Laughter.]
The SAPS, as part of the broader JCPS cluster, concentrated on specific crime combating investigations during the past year in order to reduce crime levels. These included focusing on certain priority areas, as well as specific crimes; implementing organised crime combating projects in co- operation with countries in the region and abroad; following a victim- centred approach in relation to crime against women and children; and fast- tracking our normalisation process of policing functions, especially in relation to capacity building.
In the beginning of the year 2000, a total of 145 priority police station areas in all provinces were identified for urgent stabilisation. The majority of these stations have already been stabilised. The focus in the affected areas is on crime reduction by means of continued operations such as cordon and searches, vehicle control points, roadblocks and special efforts to arrest wanted persons for whom warrants have been issued or those identified by means of fingerprints on crime scenes.
During the past weekend, a suspect who was arrested in the Western Cape was linked to nearly 100 other cases by utilising our new AFIS system. In the year ahead, AFIS will be utilised during special operations in all provinces to ensure the arrest of as many persons who are linked to crime scenes by means of fingerprints as possible.
I indicated last year that the police will focus on specific crimes such as murder, rape and armed robbery in the areas with the highest insidence of these crimes. Although our crime statistics for the previous financial year will only be released as part of the police annual report later this year, I am glad to announce that these crimes have decreased during the past few months.
Murder is down by nearly 3%. However, since November 1994 up to April this year, the murder figure has already decreased by nearly 30%. These positive results can be attributed to sterling work done by the police to address faction fighting, gang violence, hijackings, farm attacks, attacks on police members and other crime phenomena where conventional police methods play a role. I do want, of course, to commend our people who have supplied us with information that we needed in order for us to make these breakthroughs that I have referred to.
Rape also decreased by nearly 3%. The ratio of rape per 700 000 of the population is currently at its lowest level since 1994. High profile cases of aggravated robbery such as vehicle hijackings and bank-related robberies have, during the past financial year, decreased from their highest levels during the previous nine years by 37% and 66,6% respectively. In the Western Cape, for instance, public participation in the fight against crime has yielded positive results, especially in areas of gang violence, drugs, and crimes against women and children. Also reduced are previously high levels of murder in certain police station areas.
You will recall that the railway police system was discontinued in 1986. The decision was taken, amongst other things, to provide for a single policing capacity and clarified, in the circumstances, the line functions of the police. The outcome was that the police had to forego their policing tasks on trains and the broader transport sector.
We created, in June last year, a division within the SAPS for protection and security to deal with the protection of VIP’s and the security of the country’s national key points. Units of the new division will soon be deployed to the Western Cape to create conditions of safety and security for train commuters, particularly in the Greater Cape Town area. There is continuous consultation between the Ministers for Safety and Security and of Transport regarding other transport sector security needs.
In the Eastern Cape, 11 projects are at various stages of completion. They include the completed building of a community safety centre in Centane, building of new police stations, renovation of others and the upgrading of police holding cells. An old army base has been converted into a training college and local labour is used in the proceeding renovations.
In Gauteng the following priorities have been identified in line with the broad national strategy to deal with crime: prevention of violence against women and children; social crime prevention with emphasis on youth; community police relations and local crime prevention; monitoring and evaluation of police services; promotion of an integrated justice system through co-ordination, monitoring and evaluation of the criminal justice system; and communication and information.
The North West government has decided to relocate provincial headquarters of the police service from Potchefstroom to Mafikeng and all stakeholders have been engaged in the relocation plan. In an effort to address the establishment of municipal policing services, three cities, ie Rustenburg, Mafikeng and Potchefstroom have been selected to pilot the process.
I am sure that other additions will be made by some of the MEC’s for safety and security who are here, as well as by my colleagues who are members of the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, the good thing that you do may be a drop in the ocean, but the ocean will be less because of the missing drop. I am saying all this because of the manner in which this cluster relates with our committee. If you are like everyone else, then, what do you have to offer?
Let me take this opportunity to thank our four hon Ministers and their departments for making our work, as a committee, very easy. Hon Ministers, whenever we invite your officials for a meeting or a briefing they are always there, ready, willing and prepared. This would not have been the case, hon Ministers, if you did not instil discipline in your departments.
It is therefore true that successful people do what failures do not like to do. The four departments came to brief the committee. It was done so professionally, coherently, efficiently, accurately, systematically, adorably and fluently. Thanks to you, hon Ministers and your officials.
Let me pick up on a few things which need the attention of the hon Minister of Correctional Services. One worrying factor is that there are so many escapes from our prisons. Could the hon Minister brief us on how they intend to minimise or completely stop these escapes, because they tarnish the good job that the hon Minister is doing. During the briefing the officials also emphasised that there are some plans to try and curb these unnecessary escapes.
e people being counselled? I believe that these people need counselling. Can the hon Minister comment on this other issue where it is rumoured that police officers who want to take their guns home must have built-in safes to lock in those firearms and, I am told, at their own cost? The question is: What will happen when a particular officer is transferred from one police station to the other or from one province to the other?
There may not be many, but we learn that there are many guns which are in the wrong hands. What can we do to encourage those people to surrender these guns? I know that the Minister will enlighten us about the plans or some incentives to attract those people to surrender the guns because they are a danger or doom to society. At some point, I thought that my ears were deceiving me when I heard some people saying that this Government is illegitimate and illegal, as well as our courts. There is nothing wrong in dreaming, but the only problem is when one verbalises one’s dream. Such comments are unfortunate.
In our prisons there are more inmates than beds. One of the reasons is that there are some people who are not a danger to society and have committed petty crimes but are locked up in prison. I believe that the justice department can play a role in this one. May I propose that the two Departments, Justice and Constitutional Development, and Correctional Services look into this matter? Another cause for concern is the killings in our courts. The security directorate needs to do something about this. Court orderlies need to be increased. In many instances when there are shootings one will find that the court orderly was overpowered. I will be happy if something can be done about that.
Another positive move by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is the removal of admin work from magistrates so that they can concentrate on spending more time on the Bench. This is commendable.
We are sick and tired of this escalating violence against women and children. I want to propose the following steps. After being found guilty - I am talking about those lunatics - let’s publish their names as widely as we can and put their names in all public buildings. If it comes to a push, let’s also have their photos published in all public buildings.
It is high time, hon Minister, that we review the law that prohibits the Government from making known the identity of perpetrators who are under age. In our prisons we find boys who are 14 years of age or below charged with rape. Why treat them with kid gloves while they are terrorising our mothers, sisters and daughters?
The reparation process is now under way. Thanks to the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development. It is encouraging to learn that other than monetary payments, there will also be incentives such as monuments, symbols, community rehabilitation and even medical benefits or assistance to all the victims as identified by the TRC. Even though all this may not be enough to pay for their suffering, it will go a long way in promoting unity and reconciliation.
I want to express my thanks to our Defence Force for the role that they play when there is a disaster in any part of the country. The practical example of that is what happened in Mozambique.
Hon Minister, the question of commandos is always in our newspapers. The conflicting reports as to whether they will be phased out, restructured or retained need to be clarified. Can the hon Minister put this debate to rest? The experience we had about these commandos, for example in Wakkerstroom in Mpumalanga … [Time expired.]
UMntwana B Z ZULU: Sihlalo, oNgqongqoshe abahloniphekileyo, kanye namalungu onke ale Ndlu, inkulumompikiswano yethu namhlanje iqondene nesabelo seminyango emine: umNyango wezokuPhepha nokuVikela, owezobuLungiswa, kanye nowamaJele. Le minyango yomine iyona ebhekela inhlalakahle yezakhamizi zaleli zwe.
Ukufinyelela kwale minyango esinqumeni esiyiso kuncike ekutheni uphenyo lomsuka wendaba luphenywe ngendlela yokuthi ngabe luqukethe amaqiniso yini. Uphenyo olungenziwanga lwaqukatha amaqiniso obufakazi obuphathekayo ludukisa futhi lulimaze umnyango okufanele ukhiphe isinqumo. Lokhu kudala ukuthi isinqumo esikhishwayo singenelisi.
Ukumiswa kwesakhiwo samaphoyisa omphakathi, policing forum, kube nesandla esikhulu ekulweni nobelelesi ezindaweni eziningi ezihlala imiphakathi yakithi. Ezindaweni eziningi ezisemakhaya, amaphoyisa awakwazi ukufinyelela kuzo noma engaba nazo izimoto. Laphaya ezabelweni zamakhosi kunemizi eyakhe ezindaweni lapho imoto ingafinyeleli khona. Lapho kuba inkinga enkulu ukuletha ukuphepha nokuvikeleka kwaleyo miphakathi. Ukuba khona kwamaphoyisa omphakathi ezindaweni ezisemakhaya kuletha ithemba kubantu. Namuhla laba bantu bayamncoma uHulumeni ophetheyo.
IKwaZulu-Natal isifundazwe esashaywa kakhulu udlame lwezombusazwe. Namanje njengoba amabombo abantu baseNingizimu Afrika esebheke okhethweni, isiyezwakala futhi imvunge yokwesabisa ngodlame. Lokhu kushiwo yilabo bantu abazuzayo kwezombusazwe ngokususa udlame.
Isicelo sezakhamuzi ezithanda ukuthula noxolo ngesokuba abezokuphepha babonakale beseduzane nabantu, futhi umNyango wezouLungiswa ubagwebe kanzima labo abayotholakala emacaleni odlame lwezombusazwe.
Esabelweni somNyango wezobuLungiswa sibone kuhlinzekelwe ukwakhiwa kwezinkantolo ezintsha ezweni lonke, kepha umuntu ube nokukhathazeka nje ukuthi ezindaweni ezisemakhaya zamakhosi zona azibalwa kulesi sabelo sokwakhiwa kwezinkantolo.
Ubugebengu obuningi benzeka ezabelweni eziphethwe ngamakhosi. Yilapho othola khona amasela emfuyo nalapho ufica abantu belime khona amasimu ensangu ngenkululeko. Izikole zemfundo ephakemeyo ezindaweni zamakhosi zibhekene nenkinga yokusetshenziswa kwensangu, icocaine nemandrax. Okungelekelela ukunciphisa le nkinga ukuba izinkantolo zasezabelweni zamakhosi nazo zikhuthazwe ukuba zibhekane nale nkinga yokusetshenziswa kwezidakamizwa.
Abashushumbisi bezidakamizwa sebethole imakethe enkulu yokuzithengisa ezikoleni zasemakhaya lapho kungekho khona amaphoyisa kahulumeni. Kungakuhle amaphoyisa ababophe qede bagwetshwe khona ezinkantolo zasemakhaya. Izinkantolo zasezabelweni zamakhosi ziyakudinga kakhulu ukunakekelwa nazo uma ngempela siqonde ukuqeda ubulelesi eNingizimu Afrika.
Njengoba izwe laseNingizimu Afrika libuswa ngoMthethosisekelo owodwa, kubalulekile ukuba amandla obulungiswa enziwe ezweni lonke ngendlela efanayo. Amaphoyisa ayababopha abephula umthetho ezabelweni qede aphume nabo ayobavalela emajele asemadolobheni lapho kufikwe kuthethwe khona amacala abo.
Kunamacala angathethwa ezinkantolo ezisezabelweni zamakhosi, okuthiwa wona awasiwe ezinkantolo zezimantshi. Lezi zinkantolo zasemakhaya ezindaweni eziphethwe amakhosi mazenezelwe amandla okuba kuthi uma sezimgwebile umuntu, aphoqeleke ukuba isijeziso sakhe asidonse khona endaweni yomphakathi ngokuba asebenzele umphakathi ahlala kuwo amahora athile ngosuku aze asiqede. Lokhu kungaphungula umthwalo omkhulu wokugcwala kwamajele aleli zwe.
Umuntu akagxambukeli endimeni yabahluleli abaphethe umthetho wezinkantolo zobulungiswa, kepha kubalulekile ukuba umuntu aveze lokho okubonakala kungahambi kahle emNyangweni wezobuLungiswa. Kusenabehluleli basezinkantolo abasebenzisa umthetho ngendlela esabonakala icindezela ohlangothini olumnyama. Kanjalo nasemaphoyiseni, kusekhona asasebenzela ingxenye ethile yabantu.
Kwenye yezinkantolo eVryheid kade kuqulwa amacala abantu ababili, omhlophe nomnyama. Omnyama ubenecala lokugqekeza, omhlophe enecala lokudubula abulale ingane eneminyaka eyi-10 eyayitheza izinkuni epulazini lakhe. Inkantolo yaseVryheid uma isikhipha isigwebo esiqondene noSizwe Shongwe, umgqekezi, yamnika iminyaka eyi-112 ejele. Kwathi omhlophe odubule wabulala ingane, uBongiwe Xhakaza owayengakwazi ngisho nokuzivikela, yena wahlawuliswa u-R4000, kwase kuthiwa akanxephezele abazali bale ngane ngomunye u-R4000. Ngabe ubulungiswa yini lobu obenziwe kule ngane efileyo?
Abazali nezihlobo zikaBongiwe Xhakaza kanye nomphakathi waseVryheid kabeneliswanga neze yilesi sinqumo esenziwa umNyango wezobuLungiswa. Abazali bakaBongiwe uma bethi bafuna ukwedlulisa icala, inkantolo yabatshela ukuthi abathole ummeli, kepha laba bantu abanayo imali ngoba abasebenzi.
Okunye okulandelayo, kunengane enguSiphiwe Bophela eneminyaka eyi-13. Yona yaxoshwa ngemoto umnini wepulazi itheza izinkuni. Ingane yabaleka yaze yaphonseka emlilweni owawushiswa nguye umnini wepulazi. Ingane leyo yasha ngendlela eyesabekayo. Uma sekuyovulwa icala, amaphoyisa athi awaliboni icala elingethweswa umnini wepulazi owayexosha ingane leyo. Kanti futhi kunengane yakwaDanisa eneminyaka eyi-10. Yona idutshulwe kwelinye ipulazi endaweni yaseCoronation, yahlinzwa kwakhishwa izinhlamvu zesibhamu. Kwathi uma abazali bayo beyovula icala emaphoyiseni, athi kawaliboni icala angalethwesa umdubuli wengane. Zonke lezi zigameko zenzeka ngaphansi kwesifunda senkantolo yaseVryheid.
Kuyo le nyanga nje bekunomuntu ogulayo, obelele esibhedlela laphaya eVryheid. Lo muntu ubegula ngekhanda. Unsumpa-ke usebiza amaphoyisa uma lo muntu esebonakala ethanda ukudlondlobala lapha ewodini. Uma efika amaphoyisa amathathu, athola ukuthi lo muntu akalwi kodwa uyayaluza nje lapha ewodini, lase likhipha isibhamu elinye iphoyisa elimhlophe ladubula lo muntu kwafa iziguli ezimbili khona lapha ewodini.
Yizinto lezi ezishaqisayo ezenzeka kuleya ndawo. Umphakathi waseVryheid ukhathazeke kakhulu. Uyacela ukuba umnyango ubaphenyele lezi zehlakalo ezenzeka kule ndawo. Bafisa ukwazi ukuthi ngabe ngempela ubulungiswa benziwe ngendlela efaneleyo yini.
Thina-ke njenge-ANC, lezi zabelo esiziphakamisayo zale minyango yomine namhlanje siyazesekela. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members of this House, our debate today focuses on the budget of four departments, namely Safety and Security, Justice and Correctional Services. These four departments are charged with the responsibility of providing welfare services to the citizens of this country.
The capacity of these departments to make proper decisions depends on whether the root of the problem has been investigated in a manner that provides factual information. If an investigation does not contain factual and substantial evidence, it misleads and cripples the department that should take the decision. This leads to an unsatisfactory decision being taken.
The launching of the community policing forum made a great contribution to the fight against crime in many residential areas of our communities. In most rural areas police, despite access to vehicles, cannot reach places. In such places it becomes very difficult to provide safety and security to the communities. The presence of community police in rural areas brings hope to the people. Today these people commend the Government that is in power.
KwaZulu-Natal is a province that has been plagued by political violence. Even at the present moment when every South African’s attention is focused on the upcoming elections, there are already muffled noises in the background that have started to threaten with political violence. These come from those people who made political gains out of introducing violence.
The plea of peace-loving citizens is that the security organs interact closely with the people and that the Department of Justice metes out severe sentences to those who are found guilty of political violence.
We have noticed that in the budget of the Department of Justice provision has been made for the building of new courts throughout the country. However, one is concerned that the rural areas under traditional leadership have been left out of this budget.
A lot of crime takes place in rural areas which fall under the jurisdiction of amakhosi. This is where you find stock thieves and people who grow fields of dagga freely. High schools in these areas are faced with a serious problem regarding the use of dagga, cocaine and mandrax. What could help in alleviating this problem is to encourage courts in rural areas under the jurisdiction of amakhosi also to take responsibility for solving the drug abuse problem.
Drug traffickers have found themselves a huge drug market in schools in rural areas where there are no police service. It would be much better if the culprits were to be arrested by the police and then sentenced by the rural courts. Rural courts under amakhosi also need to be taken care of if we are serious about eradicating crime in South Africa.
Since South Africa is governed by one Constitution, it is important that the powers of the judiciary be applied nationwide in a uniform manner. Police arrest criminals in rural areas, then go and jail them in urban prisons where their cases are tried.
There are cases which are not tried in the amakhosi’s rural courts, but have to be taken to magistrate’s courts. These rural courts must be given more powers so that after they have sentenced a person, he is bound to serve his punishment by doing local community service for a certain number of hours per day until it is finished. This would help ease the burden of overcrowding in the country’s prisons.
One does not simply interfere in the field of judges in charge of courts of justice, but it is important for a person to reveal what is not normal in the Department of Justice. There are still court judges who apply the law in a manner that prejudices black people. The same thing applies to the police; there are still those who serve a certain section of the community.
One court in Vryheid recently tried the cases of two people, one white and the other black. The black person was accused of housebreaking and the white accused of shooting and killing a 10-year-old child who was collecting firewood on his farm. When the Vryheid court passed sentence on Sizwe Shongwe, the housebreaker, it gave him 112 years in jail. The person who shot to death Bongiwe Xhakaza, a defenceless child, was fined R4 000 and told to compensate the child’s parents with R4 000. Is it justice that was done to the deceased child?
Bongiwe Xhakaza’s parents, relatives and the community of Vryheid were not at all satisfied with this verdict by the Department of Justice. When the parents said they wanted to appeal, the court told them to get a lawyer, yet these people have no money since they are unemployed.
Another case is that of 13-year-old Siphiwe Bophela who was collecting firewood on a farm. She was chased by the farmowner in a vehicle. The child fled until she fell into a fire that had been started by the farmowner. This child suffered serious burns. When the case was opened, the police said they could not see any grounds on which the farmowner could be charged. There is a 10-year-old child with the surname Danisa who was shot on one of the farms in Coronation. An operation was done and bullets were found. When the parents opened a case, the police said they had no idea on what grounds the person who shot the child should be charged.
All these incidents took place in the Vryheid magisterial district. Just this month there was a mentally sick patient who was admitted to the Vryheid Hospital. The patient became uncontrollable in the ward and the superintendent decided to call the police. When three police officers arrived in the ward, they found that this person was not fighting, but just moving up and down the ward. One white policeman drew his gun and shot this man. Two patients were killed in the ward.
These are the shocking things that happen in that place. The Vryheid community is very worried and they request the department to investigate these incidents that take place there. They want to know if proper justice was done.
We as the ANC support these budgets for the four departments that are being proposed today. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Ms D P MAGADZI (Northern Province): Chairperson, my Ministers, colleagues from other provinces, hon members, in two days’ time, as South Africans, we will be celebrating the crafting of the Freedom Charter - a vision which served as an inspiration to all of us as freedom fighters in the quest to ensure that South Africa belongs to all of us who live in it: both black and white. As the President of the ANC clearly postulated in the ANC Today, and I quote:
Though clearly a product of its times, the Freedom Charter remains to this day a point of reference as we work to build a new South Africa. There are a number of reasons for the endurance and continued relevance of the Freedom Charter. One of these is that it is truly a product of popular participation. It was drawn up on the basis of demand presented by people throughout the country. In a real sense, it was the precursor to the democratically elected Parliament which, today, is our supreme law.
As the youth month draws to a close, we have converged here today, in this hallowed Chamber of the NCOP, to debate Policy on Budget Votes on Safety and Security, and the criminal justice system as appropriated by the National Treasury and tabled in this House by the criminal justice cluster. In debating this budget today, we must also pay homage to thousands of young people who paid the ultimate sacrifice to usher South Africa to where it is today.
Safety and security is a very important matter in any democracy in order to ensure that our people are safe and secure. I want to raise a few issues which were reflected by the Minister in his budget speech in the National Assembly. One of those issues is violence against women and children. Our province is one of those which have this type of a challenge. In our quest to ensure that our children are safe and secure, from October last year we initiated a council which deals with wars against children.
In that council we have developed a multipronged strategy within which a framework of a multidisciplinary approach on crime prevention will be dealt with. This is in line with what the National Crime Prevention Strategy has outlined. We join hands with the organs of civil society to ensure that our voyage to curb crimes against children and to create a caring nation that respects the dignity of our children and the need for their positive and responsible upbringing, is upheld.
I have noted with great concern in our province that, in particular, sexual offences are a challenge, especially in our townships and villages. Two days before the eve of Freedom Day, a ninety-eight-year old was raped at her home in the far north of the Limpopo province. On that Freedom Day, as we were celebrating, a fifteen-year old was abducted and raped by four men. A week later, a twenty-six-year old father allegedly raped his eighteen- month old baby.
For sure, our women, both young and old, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity like the rest of the human species in this country. It is in this regard that we note and applaud the intervention which has been made by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, by bringing into our province three measures to deal with sexual offences. We clearly believe that the specialisation of the judiciary will be able to serve as a deterrent to potential perpetrators, and will send a clear message to the victims of crime that this Government is very serious about addressing the plight of the indigent - those who have been disadvantaged.
As we analyse the national crime-combating strategy, we find that the SA Police Service has set itself a target of reducing crime in 145 national crime-combating zones in the country, 18 of which are found in our province. The national crime-combating strategy hopes to achieve, by the end of this financial year, a particular programme. This coming financial year it will ensure that we will be able to stabilise crime. Our assessment in our province has been that, regarding the 18 priority police stations, there has been a top-up of five police stations and that makes 23 priority policy stations. Therefore, in our analysis, we have been able to make the conclusion that while we are trying to stabilise crime in priority stations, there are challenges, particularly of social crimes, in our province. Out of that we have been able to commission a research by the CSIR to assist us in anatomising the challenges that we are faced with as a province, so that we are able to deal with them in a strategic and focused approach. We are hopeful that, as the province, we will be able to benefit out of this. We will make sure that we interact with other provinces so that we can be able to share this valuable research that we are engaged in
- particularly because it is about social crimes.
Our province is one of those that are challenged. The police-population ratio is one of the challenges, and it’s the highest in the country. We have to accept that. As we are faced with this challenge we are, on a regular basis, losing members. Between 2001 and 2003 our province lost 207 members who passed away through natural attrition and otherwise; and 125 who were lost to other provinces. We believe that since there is a national intake and recruitment, we will be able to benefit out of this, because if we don’t, our ability to fight crime will be adversely affected.
In the budget speech the Minister indicated that they have succeeded in making sure that 26% female representivity, in terms of employment equity targets, has been reached. However, I must hasten to indicate that this does not reciprocate at provincial level and, in particular, at station level because when you ask the station commissioners, they always indicate that deployment is done at national or provincial levels. In many stations, employment equity targets have not been met as yet.
Other challenges which face the SA Police Service are in relation to procurement of goods and services. The status quo to date still remains the same, such that there is central procurement to the point that it’s detrimental to the provinces because service providers do not get opportunities to become part of these important economical projects that are being provided by Government. Therefore, it will be important that as we transform, we also take cognisance of the transformation of procurement services in Government by distributing them to the provincial levels. The President covered that in his response to the budget speech in the national Parliament. The question of racism is a challenge that we cannot run away from. Last year, in our province, we commissioned research on racism, ethnicity and tribalism, and the impact thereof in ensuring that services are delivered. That is real - the results and the recommendations are there. We are grappling with the implementation of this challenging task. I must also indicate that this is not one of the things that we can ignore. We have to look this monster in the eye.
As I conclude, let me indicate that we have been humming a song as the secretariat that the CPFs are unfunded mandates, both as part of the SA Police Service and the Secretariat for Safety and Security. Even though there are some financial constraints in provinces, this is a very important organ of people’s power. Therefore, it becomes important that, as we promote good community police relations in provinces, we should also ensure that we speed up the process of dealing with the mishmash that is there in terms of the legal issues, because when you talk about the CPFs, you will find that it is the prerogative of the provincial commissioner to set up the CPFs. However, funding is one of those things that are a challenge. We hope and take cognisance of the fact that, as this is one of the areas where members are volunteering their services … [Time Expired.] [Applause.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, due to time constraints, I am going to concentrate on the Justice and Constitutional Development Vote, and the Safety and Security Vote.
In respect of justice, in the past, the DA and its predecessor have supported the Budget Votes in the justice cluster. We did so because we thought that the Government deserved an opportunity to come to grips with the many problems that they had to deal with. However, at some point we need to ask ourselves: Has there been sufficient progress to justify continued support for the Justice and Constitutional Development budget?
In the run-up to the budget policy debates and whilst briefing the portfolio committee in the National Assembly, the Chief Justice pointed out that 50% of crimes in our country go unpunished because of poor policing and prosecution. The Chief Justice complained that the awaiting-trial period for the average criminal is too long. Further, he pointed out that the lack of capacity needed to be acknowledged in order to deal with these problems.
As the Chief Justice pointed out, this lack of capacity may well be due to an inadequate budget. Whilst I wish to acknowledge that there has been an effective increase in the department’s budget of some R747 million and that this is the largest increase since 1994, however, this is not sufficient to deal with the enormous backlog in resources that has built up over the years.
The DA appreciates the fact that 52 maintenance investigators were finally appointed on 1 April for the maintenance courts. This has, however, taken far too long. The relevant legislation was enacted on 19 November 1998 and its date of commencement was 26 November 1999. The appointments that I have referred to are the first under the Act. It has taken far too long to implement this Act. Further, only 69 of the promised 80 maintenance prosecutors have been appointed.
The maintenance courts around the country are overburdened, inadequately staffed and inefficiently run. [Interjections.] Thousands of parents, mainly fathers - perhaps this colleague behind me is one of them - continue to evade and escape their obligation to support their children. We should not allow this state of affairs to continue.
The plight of victims of crime is not being addressed. The recent withdrawal of cases because of poor performance by state prosecutors is no comfort to the victims of crime. There is no victims’ charter from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. Promises to set up a victims’ fund, which the DA has called for repeatedly, have been made, but no steps to establish this fund have been taken. The criminal asset recovery unit whose account already holds R27 million in assets forfeited to the state, which is meant to assist victims of crime and the fight against crime, has not paid out a cent to date.
To sum up, we have extremely low productivity in the courts - which is the core business of the department; and long periods for awaiting-trial prisoners which result from the very low pace of cases through the courts for which both police and prosecutors must take the blame. This has led to the clogging up of prisons with some 60 000 awaiting-trial prisoners and has lead to inhumane conditions. The periods are getting longer, not shorter, and undermine citizens’ rights to a fair trial. Breaking point is rapidly approaching. These are the circumstances that will lead to vigilantism. We need to do something now to deflect us from the path of vigilantism which none of us can accept.
There is inconsistency in the justice department’s approach to its problems. Pilot projects introduced to keep the awaiting-trial accused out of jail if their offences were minor have just been dropped in an ad hoc manner, through failure to allocate funding.
There are persistently low conviction rates in relation to the rising crime rate. The director of national prosecution’s office claims conviction rates in the 80% range for all three levels of courts. However, this relates to cases that eventually actually go to trial. Figures given by the department are very different. In the district courts, because of the increase in crime, new cases recorded by the NPA have climbed to over a million, but only 334 880 cases were finalised. As only 142 896 remained outstanding, more than half a million cases were withdrawn. This supports the Chief Justice’s comment that 50% of crime cases go unpunished.
Extreme shortages of personnel which are simply not addressed undermine the operation of the courts. According to the latest strategic plan framework for the department, a human resource audit of the department suggests that it is both underresourced and relatively unskilled and therefore ill- prepared to fulfil its mandate. The DA sees insufficient progress in this budget torwards the goals of an efficient and victim-friendly court system. We, therefore, cannot support this Vote. [Interjections.]
In respect of Safety and Security, the police force, whose job it is to uphold the law, must be properly trained and fully equipped to do so. It is the responsibility of the Government to ensure that the police force is adequately and appropriately staffed. The Government also needs to ensure that the police force is properly trained and properly equipped. [Interjections.] Moreover, it is the Government’s responsibility to ensure that the police force is efficiently managed and that it carries out its mandate. At the end of the day, it is the Government’s responsibility to ensure that South African citizens enjoy their constitutional rights to security of their persons and their property.
Instead of putting emphasis where it belongs, we see the Government seeking to hide and obscure the facts by refusing to release the appropriate statistics until they are no longer current or relevant. [Interjections.] Not so long ago, there was a total blackout on crime statistics. While the department supposedly corrected certain shortcomings in the system of collecting and collating data on crime statistics, in due course, we were assured that the shortcomings in relation to crime statistics had been corrected.
Mr Gibson, in the National Assembly, has pointed out that the police statistics for the year 2000 indicated that the number of murders committed for the period under review had been 21 683. [Interjections.] However, the Medical Research Council put the figure for the same period at 32 482. The discrepancy has not yet been adequately explained.
As a member of Parliament trying to assess whether the department has allocated its budget to the correct priorities, we are entitled to know what the true state of affairs is. [Interjections] Otherwise, we cannot do our jobs properly. Furthermore, the citizens of this country live in a democracy that prides itself on being open and transparent. They, too, are entitled to know the true state of affairs with regard to the battle against crime in their own country. To date hereof, I have not heard any compelling reason for denying them access to this information.
If the department is incapable of providing us with current and accurate information, then this is another reason for us to look at their budget allocation more closely. [Interjections.] South African citizens, across the country, suffer …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! There is a point of order. Mr Lever, your time has actually expired, but let us hear what that hon member wants to say.
Mr V V Z WINDVOëL: Chairperson, I want to know whether the member wants to take a question.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): His time has expired, but let me check. Hon member, I will give you one minute if you want to take a question. Would you take a question? [Interjections.] Your time has expired, anyway.
Mr L G LEVER: [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): All right, if you want to round off, just round off quickly.
Mr L G LEVER: South African citizens across the country suffer the consequences of crime on a daily basis. It is not sufficient to tell them that crime statistics have stabilised. They deserve something better than that. The Government should be committing sufficient resources to this problem to ensure that the crime rate comes down significantly and consistently. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr I W KOTSOANE (Free State): Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers and colleagues, this budget debate takes place, obviously, on the eve of the 48th anniversary of the historic assembly of our people, the Kliptown congress, which shaped the vision for the creation of society that we seek to build today. That’s the society where there shall be peace and friendship, and the society that is steeped in equality before the law and human rights culture, as stipulated in our own Constitution.
As the first decade of our democracy comes to end, we enjoy the fruits of those who assembled in Kliptown. Many who toiled through the years for the achievement of our democratic dispensation in 1994 can claim, without any fear of contradiction, that we have scored many goals in the space of ten years. Important state institutions empowered to create the atmosphere of peace, stability and friendship, such the SA Police Service, defence and justice departments, now enjoy unsurpassed respect, recognition and confidence amongst the majority of our people who, for generations, were oppressed through these institutions.
As the dawn of our second decade approaches, we can equally look back and claim to ourselves and everybody that lessons learned throughout the history of exclusion, oppression, racism - which resulted in an unaccountable government - gave way to the new culture of accountable and consultative form of government, a government in which people are at the centre of change, and thereby bettering their own lives.
Our people continue to take part in governance through campaigns such as Letsema. Their preoccupation is to change the circumstances that they find themselves in. Fighting crime in communities through community policing forums and sector policing is one of the key strategies which have contributed, in the case of the Free State province, to the stabilised phase of crime. The normalisation phase that we have entered is focused on crimes such as murder, housebreaking, residential and business area crimes, common assault and robbery which are still prevalent in some of the police station areas.
Three areas, in particular, in our province - Batho in Bloemfontein, Thabong in Welkom and Maokeng in Kroonstad - still report incidents of rape which have their roots in domestic violence. Communities in these areas, through their community policing forums and sector policing, have embarked in different campaigns aimed at educating people about the issues of domestic violence and distributed pamphlets to help communities with tips on how to take personal responsibility in the fight against crime.
We want to report that since the visit to our province by the Minister of Defence, and Minister of Safety and Security earlier this year, with their counterpart from the Lesotho government, crime around our borders with Lesotho has decreased substantially. This is as a result of an increased working relation between the SA Police Service and its counterpart in Lesotho.
Different projects that are being established around Lesotho to combat drug trafficking, car theft and gun smuggling are proving to be successful. Regular roadblocks which are conducted by the police stations around the border, including provincially co-ordinated crackdown operations, are paying dividends to our communities who live along the Lesotho border. Although stock theft remains a problem in the eastern part of the province, there has been a marked decline in farm attacks and farm murders. This is as a result of the work that our police officers, in collaboration with the farmers and farming community, are embarking upon.
In the province, the secretariat, as well as the Human Rights Commission, have equally embarked on programmes such as human rights training and information sessions for both farmworkers and farmers. In keeping with our constitutional mandate to evaluate and monitor service delivery in the province, the secretariat has launched an annual review of the SA Police Service which is conducted through community surveys in all police stations by independent consultants. This, we believe, will help in shaping our strategies in relation to service delivery in each police area.
Arising from the first results of that survey, the following could just be shared with this House. The majority of those polled were not aware of police stations and all community service centres. They were also not aware how they operate and that their name is no longer charge offices but community service centres. This counts for 85% of the population and, therefore, it means that a lot of information distribution and work has to be done. For example, 79% of them were satisfied with the manner in which police discharge their responsibilities in the province. Fifteen percent of those who were polled were of the view that bribery in the Police Service is still a problem among some members. Thirty six percent of those who were polled believed that racism is still an issue within the Police Service, and that it results in their cases not being properly taken up. I will, in due course, discuss some of the findings with the police officers so that we are able to seek ways of improving our work in our communities. In addition to this project, we have established a complaint centre which uses a toll-free number in the province. This centre allows our people, across the province, to phone in in order to register their complaints in relation to service delivery and, indeed, to compliment work that is being done well by the police officers. To date, this centre has registered an average of 50 calls a day. Community workers from the secretariat are being sent throughout the province to follow up on those complaints that have been registered.
Since the beginning of this project, there has been, indeed, very good co- operation between our communities and the police. Obviously, everyone in the Police Service would like to be registered as having done his work well. So, we think that this is a very important project, for it means that we allow our people to have a better service from our own police members.
The general perception survey points to a work in progress that still needs to be done. Of course, it does point to some areas where improvement is needed. We believe that, as we approach the second survey, which will be conducted towards the end of this year, the results will be different from the ones that we have since the strategies that we will embark upon will help us in order to address issues that were raised by communities.
What inspires us most, generally in the province, is the willingness, commitment and readiness of our people to be part of the solution. We are confident that with time and hard work on the part of all stakeholders, there is, indeed, a brighter future for our country.
One of the critical challenges that faces our country and obviously our province, and the criminal justice system in particular, is around issues of social crimes. These relate to violence against women and children, including child rape and substance abuse which are interrelated. With the intensification of our campaigns around these matters, we are confident that we will win. Lessons from the founders of our Constitution indicate that participation of all stakeholders in the community is key to such victory.
Some among us are calling for 150 000 police officers who can police this sort of crimes. We disagree. It has been proven, time and again, from countries such as America and others that it’s not in the numbers, but in the quality of work. More importantly, it’s through community participation that we could be able to reduce crime. The best municipalities with money in America employed many police officers. However, that did not build or pay any dividends. What is key and has been proven in our own situation is that through community policing forums and sector policing, we have been able to build a bridge between our police officers and communities and thereby making people confident about the work of the police. Of course, police officers are able to get as much information in the fight against crime.
Our approach to this central issue of social crime is and will always be to ensure that we mobilise the masses of our people and empower them to be able to detect and report such crimes to the police. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Deputy Chairperson, members, listening to the member from the DA, I observed that the DA simply opposes for the sake of opposing. [Interjections.] The 2003 national Budget gives priority to reducing poverty and vulnerability. Poverty and unequal access to resources are the key courses of conflict.
As part of the International Relations, Peace and Stability cluster, the Department of Defence is the leading department in the efforts to bring peace in Africa. We believe that without peace and stability, economic development will not fully take off. Conversely, without economic development and justice, there cannot be peace. We believe that it is possible to end wars in Africa and elsewhere in the world. Through Nepad, Africans are determined to find African solutions to Africa’s problems. It is in this context that an African stand-by force, under the auspices of the African Union, is being mooted.
The core value of a common defence policy is based on the indivisibility of continental security. It recognises the fact that each African country’s security is linked, inseparably, to another. Another core value that forms part of the common defence policy is the acceptance that conflict resolution should primarily be effected through peaceful means. As conflicts within states often spill over into neighbouring states, the central tenet of the common defence policy, therefore, remains nonaggression.
To meet this objective, each country is expected to assess its own doctrine and security situation. Each country has to look at its assets, and determine what it can contribute to the common good. It is expected that our country, as one of those stronger economies on the continent, will always have to carry some of the bigger responsibilities. I noticed during the earlier session that a number of questions from this House to the Deputy President were on the role of the SANDF regarding peacekeeping.
It is correct that members of Parliament are concerned that sufficient funds are allocated for our peacekeeping obligations while ensuring that our own domestic defence needs are met. The benefits of a peaceful, stable and developing Africa make it worthwhile to invest in peace-building on our continent. The whole of Africa is working, continentally and regionally, to meet these challenges.
On the defence side, our approach is to create regional blocks that will then be pooled together to form a continental body. I can report that we, in the SADC, are in the process of finalising the SADC mutual defence pact, and are hopeful that it will be signed at the coming heads of states summit in August. I can also report that the African stand-by force is currently at an advanced state of discussion. An agreement has been reached on a number of matters. Some of the matters on which full agreement has been reached are the following: doctrine and posture; shifts in the nature of peacekeeping; common standards of training; interoperability of forces; equipment and logistics; standard procurement regimes for commonly identified equipment needs; and establishment of command structures.
The DOD continues to seek ways to align our mandate and tasks with our budget especially, but not exclusively, with regard to our increased, yet necessary, external deployments. These deployments are not confined to peacekeeping in Burundi and the Democractic Republic of Congo but also include our presence in the form of military attachés in most countries. This presence was necessitated by our having to service 103 international agreements, under the guidance of the Department of Foreign Affairs.
In responding to the challenges posed by the budgetary constraints, the DOD has developed a new military strategy whose aim is to ensure that it delivers on its expanded mandate while ensuring that we keep within the allocated budget. This strategy is guided by the considerations to achieve an excellent strategic direction, excellent resource management, and maintaining effective combat forces and support forces while ensuring a high standard of professionalism through effective command and control, doctrine tactics and appropriate technology.
Another consideration is the implementation of the transformation process. The DOD recognises that successful transformation is essential in order to ensure the alignment of its policies with those of Government. These are issues of civil-military relations, transparency, representivity, state expenditure and security. Issues of inequality caused conflict within the DOD in the past, and will continue to do so unless they are addressed.
The effort to increase the number of women who participate in the peace processes must be intensified. The UN Security Council’s Resolution 1325 calls on member states to ensure that women are represented at all levels of decision-making, and in all processes and postconflict reconstruction. In this regard, we are happy to report that our women personnel have been deployed in peacekeeping missions alongside their male comrades right from the beginning, and have done a tremendous job.
The chief directorate on equal opportunities intends to engage the chief of joint operations to challenge him to encourage equal women participation in the peace processes and peacekeeping, ensure gender mainstreaming in training for peacekeeping, and to ensure adherence of our peacekeepers to the SA National Defence Force’s code of conduct. Respect for women’s rights and gender equity, and the protection of women and girls from rape and other gender-based violence, are enshrined in our Constitution and the code of conduct.
We are happy to report, also, that women soldiers are making a special contribution to the peace process in the DRC through their participation in the inter-Congolese dialogue. This process was initiated in the Presidency, under the leadership of Mrs Zanele Mbeki. The DOD’s own programme of involving women in the peace processes in Africa continues to grow. This year, the African Women’s Peace Table - a forum created in the year 2000 to initiate dialogue among women soldiers and civilian women peace activists - will focus on the role of women in Nepad and the AU. We expect participation by women from the SADC region’s defence forces.
Another important development, this year, is the chief directorate’s production of a draft document that proposes a policy on shared values for the Department of Defence. This new addition will strengthen the ongoing efforts to fully transform the Department of Defence into a nonracial, nonsexist and caring organisation.
As we strive to meet the challenges and expectations placed on us, the DOD has developed strategies and programmes to ensure that the SANDF is properly equipped and trained. One of these is Human Resource Strategy 2010 through which we hope to revitalise the SANDF whilst simultaneously creating a pool for the reserves. Our force’s design and structure relies on a large pool of reserves from which to recruit when the need for greater numbers of personnel arises. In this regard, we are happy to report that Project Phoenix, which is aimed at strengthening and transforming our reserve forces, is in full swing.
Through the military skills development programme, the human resources division of the Department of Defence aims to address the issue of lack of representivity, especially in the high technical masterings of the SANDF, and to contribute to the national skills development programme. The failure to get the numbers right could be attributed to the education dispensation of the past which made and continues to make the availability of properly prepared school-leavers difficult. Through the military skills development programme, greater numbers of blacks and women are targeted for the navy and the airforce. We are proud to say that this programme is one of our flagship programmes, and not only serves the needs of the Department of Defence and the SANDF, but also those of the country as a whole.
Our pilots are in great demand in the commercial sector. This has posed a new challenge for the SA Air Force to find ways to retain them. The Youth Foundation Training Programme was launched in 2001 as an urgent intervention by the DOD to provide foundation training for school-leavers in mathematics and science, especially for those from disadvantaged communities. The expected end result of this programme is to produce the critical mass of well-trained young people who have good symbols in mathematics and physical science and who can choose to join the SANDF.
Budgetary constraints, unfortunately, prevent the intake of more students.
The SA Air Force has embarked on the Siyandiza Aviation Awareness Programme to increase the recruitment pool of youths who come from disadvantaged communities in order to address the problem of lack of representivity. This project aims to improve the mathematics symbols of school-leavers in order to make them eligible for acceptance to train as pilots, navigators, air traffic controllers and engineers.
The Air Force board approved an academic approach to the programme which has now expanded and given birth to the SA Air Force young falcons’ programme. This new programme which targets Grades 6 to 12 will be done in three phases in partnership with the Department of Education and will create a true air force identity for the participating learners.
The DOD faces challenges of ensuring that our military veterans are assisted to reintegrate smoothly into productive civilian life. In attempting to meet this challenge, Parliament passed the Military Veterans Affairs Act of 1999. The Act made provision for appointment of an advisory board to advise the Minister of Defence on issues that concern military veterans in order to improve their quality of life and that of their dependants.
The service corps was established in September 1995 in order to reintegrate ex-combatants into society. A study which was ordered by the Minister of Defence revealed that the service corps was not functioning optimally and had not succeeded in migrating out of the SANDF, as originally envisaged. We are happy to announce that efforts to migrate the service corps into a national vehicle that would benefit the nation are currently under way. This will provide general access to its immense resources such as the Centre for Advanced Training in Pretoria. In doing so, these resources will be made available to assist in the development of our nation.
To ensure the success of such a migration, it is crucial that, as Government, we develop clear output criteria to ensure compliance with our socioeconomic objectives. In this regard, we recognise the need to ensure links with existing socioeconomic clusters, in order to ensure viability, such as the programmes in Public Works, Trade and Industry, Labour and Social Development. It will also link to the Nepad initiatives through developmental peacekeeping. Developmental peacekeeping provides the SANDF with the unique opportunity to assist in the migration of the service corps whilst linking into existing infrastructure-related interventions that would support Nepad.
Both the CSIR and the MOD are currently exploring the viability of a developmental peacekeeping model. In April this year, the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, the hon Ronnie Kasrils, and I, launched Operation Vuselela. That is a project which is aimed at eradicating foreign vegetation on SANDF-controlled land while creating jobs for military veterans. This was in recognition of the fact that the welfare of military veterans is not an exclusive responsibility of the DOD. Operation Vuselela employs only military veterans, and is run under the auspices of Working for Water Programme with funding from the Poverty Relief Fund.
The size and scope of the problem of unemployed former combatants and soldiers, who are generally young and restless, is a problem not only for individual defence forces, but also for the region and the continent as a whole. We cannot sleep peacefully while tens of thousands of former soldiers go hungry and roam around. It is our responsibility to ensure that former soldiers are properly reintegrated into active and productive civilian life. This we owe to them and to ourselves. We must recognise their service and the contribution that they made to our freedom.
Previously I spoke about the importance of addressing the issue of ensuring that our national military heritage integrates struggle and resistance military history. In pursuit of this objective, the Ministry of Defence and the Directorate of Military Veterans’ Affairs have had discussions with the board of Freedom Park. We are happy with the progress that is being made by Freedom Park to honour our national heritage and the contribution to our freedom made by the liberation armies of uMkhonto weSizwe and Apla. We thank Dr Wally Serote and the Ministry of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology for their continued support in this regard. The world congress of military veterans will convene in Johannesburg in December 2003. We look forward to this important international conference that will be hosted, for the first time, by an African country. This congress will provide an opportunity for military veterans to put their issues on the agenda.
Government has realised that there was an oversight in drawing up the Special Pensions Act of 1996. Many deserving former members of the liberation movements were left out of the ambit of the Act. As announced by Treasury, the Special Pensions Act of 1996 is being amended to rectify issues that were overlooked. It is expected that the President will sign the amended Act during the present session of Parliament.
Collateral utility is about the peacetime utilisation of defence, spare capabilities and resources for civilian purposes. In this regard, the SANDF continues to be involved in the fight against cholera and malaria in our own country and in the SADC region through the SA Military Health Service and other divisions like the army engineer corps. The SA Military Health Service was a participant in the rally against malaria which was organised under the leadership of the Minister of Health, Minister Tshabalala- Msimang.
The SANDF was involved in the construction of a temporary bridge on the South Coast following the bombing of that bridge, allegedly by members of the Boeremag. The SANDF continues to contribute to internal security, peace and stability in support of the SA Police Service.
HIV/Aids poses a special challenge for the Department of Defence from the point of view that the bulk of its personnel fall in the most vulnerable social group of the young, highly mobile and sexually active. The risk of defence personnel on external deployment is heightened by long absences from home. This necessitates a more extensive training for our soldiers about the issues surrounding the virus before any deployment. The DOD has intensified its efforts to fight HIV/Aids through its Masibambisane Campaign. To this end, a national HIV/Aids advisor was appointed in the Ministry of Defence.
To date, the Masibambisane Campaign has been launched in most provinces. A total of over R4,6 million was spent on the campaign for the 2002-03 financial year. Two thousand five hundred staff members have been trained as peer educators, occupational health and safety officers, master trainers, health care workers and HIV programme developers. In the DOD, 71% of staff was exposed to Masibambisane. However, in consideration of the scale of the task of fighting HIV/Aids, more funds need to be made available. We are very grateful for the donor funding that we have received in aid of this programme.
At this point, I want to extend my gratitude to the personnel of the Department of Defence who work tirelessly and who have remained true to the department and to the people of South Africa. The people of South Africa can rest assured that the Department of Defence will continue to serve them. It will continue to transform itself into an instrument of peace domestically, continentally and internationally. It will work towards the day when, in reality, the world shall beat its swords into plough shares, its spears into pruning hooks; when nations shall not lift a sword against another; and no one shall endeavour to learn war anymore.
On 26 June, as other members have indicated, we celebrate the adoption of the Freedom Charter by the Congress of the People. ``There shall be peace and security’’, says the Freedom Charter. We are happy that our budget is orientated to achieving these noble objectives enshrined in our base document, the Freedom Charter. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Hon Deputy Chair, hon members, hon Ministers, hon MECs, comrades and friends, the focus this is year is on consolidation of our gains and accelerated transformation.
Before I begin, may I apologise for the absence of my MEC who is not in the country. Our President, the hon Thabo Mbeki, when he delivered his state of the nation address in Parliament on 14 February 2003, repeatedly confirmed that, and I quote
The tide has turned. Our task is to take this tide at the flood to progress towards the achievement of the goals for which so many of our people sacrificed.
Our programmes in our province, the Northern Cape, are in line with the broader national vision of transformation. Our crime prevention programmes, as such, do ascribe to an empowerment and developmental approach which is in favour of, particularly, those disadvantaged communities. It is these previously disadvantaged black communities who still suffer as a result of high levels of crime, violence, poverty and other social injustices, and all legacies of the underdevelopment and disempowerment, surely, engineered by the apartheid regime.
In the face of rape and violence against women and children spiralling towards alarming levels, also in our province, and coupled with the sometimes glaring negligence and obvious don’t-care attitude of some parents and community members towards the safety of our children as well as their own, and compounded by irresponsible drinking and alcohol abuse, it is important that we intensify all efforts and interventions to stop the scourge that is seriously threatening the wellbeing and prosperity of our broader communities in the Northern Cape and elsewhere.
It is, therefore, critical that we intensify our efforts to bring down the levels of violence against and abuse of our women and children, as well as the abuse of alcohol and drugs in our province. We will, thus, be focusing on effective implementation and sustenance of those projects that have been already launched in the province and seek to consolidate community buy-in and ownership of projects at local level. Departmental resources will continue to be focused and aligned towards our mandate to co-ordinate, lead and champion the provisional total onslaught on crime, and with pertinent focus on violence against women and children, and alcohol abuse. Regarding budgetary constraints amidst service delivery needs, one can mention, for example, the understaffed department and lean structures which result from the inadequate budget for filling of all critical posts, especially core function posts. A serious constraint is the unfunded posts in the two core function subdirectorates of monitoring and oversight, and crime prevention and community police relations that have been vacant since the inception of the department. At present, the operations of these subdirectorates have to be executed by a total of four officials at provincial level, that is two per subdirectorate and four at regional level, that is one per region. Another budget-related constraint is the delay in the allocation and availability of budget to the SAPS in the provinces - that is the budget from the national level.
Two months into the new financial year, the police in the province have not yet been informed about their budget allocation for this year. It is such delays in the budget process that cause provinces to underspend because they can only place orders, for example for vehicles, once they know what amount has been allocated to them for vehicles. Provinces are, however, taking this matter up at Minmec and hope to have it resolved before the next financial year.
The following are the challenges around the transformation of the SAPS in our province: difficulties in changing attitudes; inculcation of the human rights culture within the SAPS; continued resistance and insincerity towards meeting the policy needs of the previously disadvantaged communities, eg the skewed allocation and deployment of resources between Galeshewe and Kimberley, Upington and Pabalello that bring on racist or discriminatory attitudes and practices; resistance to move out of comfort zones such as the prevailing domination of the SAPS administration and support service units by whites; stations still being staffed according to racial lines, eg Galeshewe which is predominantly African, Roodepan which is predominantly coloured and Kimberley which is predominantly white; and also the fact that experienced senior officers only work from seven to four o’clock, Mondays to Fridays, instead of working over weekends and crime peak hours when there is more crime and complaints, and their experience and expertise dearly needed; difficulties around achievement of representivity and employment equity in that not much has been achieved in terms of this area; and the transformation processes within the SAPS, mainly because of human resource policies which are centralised or nationalised. The current problem of critical mass in the department which is due to vacancies is fast reaching alarming proportions in that it not only places unnecessary stress and pressure on the existing staff who have to do double their bit without extra remuneration or overtime pay because of budgetary constraints, but it also seriously affects the morale of staff. The SAPS in the province also experiences severe shortages, and has recorded the levels of understaffing as at 40% in terms of human resources and a 50% shortage in terms of vehicles.
All of the above contribute to the prevailing reactive policing approach to our crime problems in that we are mainly only able to respond to complaints or crime after the fact instead of having adequate resources to deploy to the streets for purposes of crime prevention.
We have, indeed, succeeded to establish regional offices in the four regions of Francis Baard, Namaqualand, Siyanda and Upper Karoo which are now all operational. We will be implementing the final phase of the departmental decentralisation process with the establishment of the third regional office in Kuruman in the Kgalagadi node as part of the presidential rural development programme. [Time expired.]
Ms N C KONDLO: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers …
… malungu abekekileyo ale Ndlu, eneneni namhlanje sixoxa ngohlahlo- lwabiwo-mali lwamasebe ayileyo phaya kwisine - elezoBulungisa, uKhuseleko, eloLuleko lwamabanjwa kunye nelezoKhuselo. Kambe mna ndiza kuthi chu kweli lezoLuleko.
Apha Mhlalingaphambili, sithetha ngesebe eliseshweni lokuba semsileni kwinkqubo yezobulungisa, nto leyo eyenza ukuba lizibone lithwala nomsebenzi wamanye amasebe. Le ngxaki ilenza eli sebe lizibone lifuna ukwaba izimali, ukuba amanye amasebe ebesebenza ngokulindelekileyo, nge eli sebe liwuthwala ngcono umsebenzi walo. Xa ndinaba kulo mba Mhlalingaphambili, umzekelo ndingathi, iintolongo zaseMzantsi Afrika azizele ziyaphuphuma ngamabanjwa. Amanani asibonisa mhlophe le ngxaki. Ami ngolu hlobo: 187 748 amabanjwa ukuphela kukaMatshi amabanjwa asezitrongweni kodwa umthwalo weetrongo uthatha i-110 874 amabanjwa. Loo nto ithethe ukuthi eli sebe ligqithe ngama- 78 874 kumthamo walo. Eyona nto iphinda yenze ingxaki emandla kweli sebe yeyokuba ama-58 144 ala mabanjwa awakagwetywa, Mphathiswa wezoBulungisa. Bambi banikwa iibheyile ezincinci kakhulu noxa kunengxaki yokuba ezinye zazo zingabhataleki. Loo nto yenza ukuba babe baninzi abantu abangekagwetywa abasezitrongweni. Eli sebe kufanele linikezwe ibhajethi yaloo nto. Ke ngoko ndifuna ukuthi mhlawumbi ukuzama ukuhlangabezana neli sebe, kunganjani na ukuba isebe lezoBulungisa, ingakumbi phaya koomantyi lingakhe liqwalasele ngakumbi la mabanjwa anikezwe iibheyile ezincinci ukuba akukho nto ingenziwa na ukuqinisekisa ukuba phaya etrongweni akuhlali la mabanjwa angakwazi kuhlawula ibheyile yama-R50 kuba kaloku mhlawumbi nesenzo esi wena asinabuzaza kangangokuba uRhulumente angachitha izimali ezininzi ngokondla nokulalisa kwa nokugcina aba bantu ezitrongweni. Le ngxaki yokuphuphuma kweetilongo ingathi mhlawumbi xa kunokwenziwa olu phengululo ihlangabezeke.
Eneneni indima yeSebe lezoKhuseleko ibalulekile khon’ ukuze amanani abantu abangekagwetywa angasoloko ephezulu. Loo nto iya kuthetha ukuba namapolisa kweliya Sebe lezoKhuseleko mawaqinise umxhelo ekwenzeni umsebenzi wawo, ndaweninye noomantyi kweliya Sebe lezoBulungisa kuba mhlawumbi abanye bethu asiyiqondi kakuhle into yokuba kwenziwa yintoni ukuba abantu abaninzi babe abakagwetywa. Ingaba bethu mhlawumbi sijongene nenkqubo yezoBulungisa apho abaye babathathi-nxaxheba kule nkqubo banengxaki neenguqu ngokwedemokhrasi. Ukwabelwa imali ethe xhaxhe nyaka-mali nanyaka-mali kweli Sebe akusayi kusincedisa xa onke la masebe engasebenzisani. Xa ndiphonononga iinkqubo zokwakha ubuntu obutsha nobuphuhlileyo zeli sebe, ndifumanisa ukuba eneneni eli sebe lijonge kabanzi ekwakheni uluntu oluphuma ezitrongweni khon’ ukuze lube lulutho eSizweni.
Aphezulu amanani amabanjwa athe aqeqeshwa kwizinwe ezininzi. Kambe kungani ukuba amashumi amathandathu ekhulwini amabanjwa ibe ngabantu ebebekhe basuka etrongweni ngaphambili? Bambi sele beqeqeshiwe kwezi zinwe. Ithi ke loo nto Mhlalingaphambili, uRhulumente angazigalela izimali kweli Sebe, baqeqeshwe abantu kwizinwe zonke babe nazo izakhono, baphume eziseleni kodwa bafike emakhaya bengamkeleki ngenxa yezinto abazenzileyo bafike ekuhlaleni bengafunwa luluntu ngenxa yezinto abazenzileyo, loo nto ke ithethe ukuthi Sihlalo, umngeni uqala ekhaya apho umntu azalwa khona ndaweninye naseluntwini jikelele apho umntu ahlala khona. Loo nto ithethe ukuthi ke iinkqubo zikaRhulumenete kuwo onke amasebe kufanele ziqinise apha ekumiseleni iinkqubo ndaweninye neenkonzo ezingenjongo yokujongana nophuhliso loluntu khon’ ukuze ze siqhawule eli khonkco lobundlobongela bambi abantu bezifumana belixhoba lalo. Kananjalo isebe kufanele liqinise indlela emalithathe ngayo inxaxheba kwiinkonzo ezijongene nokubuyisela abo bavela ezitrongweni ukuthi mabamkeleke eluntwini.
Sihlalo, ngala mazwi ambalwa, nam ndithi siyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo- mali. Liyinene elithi kweli sebe, ‘Corrections is collective responsibility of the offender, the family, the community and Government’. Enkosi Sihlalo. [Applause.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[… hon members of this House, indeed we are debating the budget votes of four departments, ie the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, the Department of Safety and Security, the Department of Correctional Services and the Department of Defence. Of course, I am going to spend time on correctional services.
Chairperson, we are talking here about a department which unfortunately comes last in the processes of justice, which leaves it finding that it has to shoulder the work of other departments as well. This problem makes this department feel tempted to appropriate funds. If the other departments were working as expected, this department would have coped better with its work.
In elaborating on this matter, Chair, I can, for example, say that prisons in South Africa are overflowing with prisoners. The statistics in this regard are clear. They are as follows: At the end of March the number of inmates in prisons were 187 748. This is the case while the prisons have capacity for 110 874 prisoners. That means that this department has exceeded its capacity by 78 874. What is also creating a serious problem in this department is that 58 144 of these prisoners are awaiting trial, Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development. Bail money in too low amounts are granted even though some of them are not payable. That causes prisons to have many unsentenced inmates. This department is supposed to be granted a budget for that purpose.
Therefore, I want to say, perhaps in and effort to help this department, what if particularly the magistrates of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development could look at especially the situation concerning inmates who have been granted low bail, to see whether or not something could be done to ensure that prisons do not house people who cannot afford to pay R50 bail if the offence is perhaps not so serious that the Government should spend a lot of money feeding, providing shelter and detaining these people in prisons. The problem of overcrowding in prisons might be solved if an investigation could be made into this.
Indeed the safety and security department plays an important role in ensuring that the statistics of the unsentenced prisoners are not always high. That implies that the police must pull up their socks in doing their job, as well as magistrates in the Department of Justice. Maybe some of us do not understand what it is that gives rise to many not being sentenced. Is it, perhaps, that we are faced with a justice system where some role- players in the system have a problem with the democratic changes?
The appropriation of increased amounts of money to this department, budget after budget, will not help if all the departments do not co-operate with one another. On examination of this department’s programmes to build a new developed society, I find that this department has indeed looked broadly at creating members of the community that are released from prison that mean something to the nation.
Figures of prisoners who have been trained in many disciplines are high. In fact, why is 60% of the prisoners people who have previously been sentenced? Some have already been trained in these disciplines. Chair, it is said that the Government can pump moneys into this department, have people trained in all disciplines, develop skills and get people out of prison, but they get home and are not welcomed because of the things they had done; they get back to the community and are rejected because of the things they had done.
Chairperson, this therefore means that the challenge begins at home, where the individual was born, as well as in the community, where the individual stays. That means Government programmes, in all departments, should act decisively in setting up programmes, including services, that are aimed at at dealing with the development of the community, so that we could break the cycle of violence to which some people have fallen victim. In addition, the department should strengthen the manner in which it plays its role in the services that deal with rehabilitating those who come from prison so that they are accepted in the community.
With these few words, Chair, I also want to say that we support this Budget Vote. What is said in this department is true, and that is ``correction is the collective responsibility of the offender, the family, the community and Government’’. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]]
Ms J L KGOALI: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Ministers, comrades, colleagues and fellow South Africans, it is unfortunate that hon Lever is out of the House. I thought that the DP should be part of these deliberations as we deliberate on important issues that affect us. None of them is in the House, including the hon Raju who is also not here. And, I am sure that, hon Deputy Chair, you will take into cognition that the hon members from this party are not serious about this Government. I am not sure what they say to their members out there and whether they do want to tell them the truth or not.
I am pleased to stand here today on behalf of my province, Gauteng. We want to say that there is no Government that is led by a smart party that can do what we are doing, as this Government. The ANC-led Government has seen fit that it should take these important Ministers and put them together to ensure that we address the problems that we are faced with, problems that have been neglected by the previous government.
As we all know, Gauteng is a small but densely populated province and their problems are as much. But, one wants to say that nine years of this democratic Government have brought change to those who want to see it, member Versfeld. If you want to see change, there is change in this country. If you don’t want to see change, you will never see it. I also want to say that the departments that have been brought together have made it possible for this country to see a drop in crime. Those who cannot see that crime has dropped in this country will never see it and they will never recognise it.
The Gauteng Department of Safety and Liaison’s budget has been increased in this current financial year from R26 million to R33,9 million - a 23% increase. Given the budget and history of funding in this department, this is a significant increase. We need to note that 29% of this budget will go towards activities that are geared towards the prevention of violence and abuse of women and children.
I also want to say that it is not money only that can make everything happen. The success that we have seen, as this Government, has been through commitment and discipline. The budget, therefore, continues to address the problems and projects as outlined in the National Crime Prevention Strategy and the White Paper on Safety and Security.
Our approach in Gauteng is to have a dual emphasis when it comes to addressing safety and security matters. We must ensure that there is effective law enforcement and provision of social crime prevention programmes to reduce incidents of crime. The Gauteng department of safety and security has identified the following priorities, in line with the broad Government strategy of dealing with crime: prevention of crime and abuse of women and children; social crime prevention with elevated focus on youth, community police relations and local prevention; monitoring and evaluation of police services to promote trust and good services between communities and police; promotion of an integrated justice system through co-ordinating, monitoring and evaluation of the criminal justice system; and communication and information.
The main highlights of the Gauteng budget are as follows: R1,7 million has been set aside to further capacitate the service delivery desk and acquire more resources for the Justice on Wheels Programme. This programme will provide and assist communities who reside in the peri-urban areas with means for addressing their complaints against police and the justice system
- as we all know that we are now correcting the mistakes and injustices of the past. Through this allocated budget, visits to police stations and specialised units will be conducted in order to determine the quality, effectiveness and efficiency on the part of police, in so far as the delivery of police services to communities is concerned.
The department has also budgeted R10 million which will mainly be used to deal with the prevention of violence and abuse of women and children. MEC Nomvula Mokonyane announced that Ikhaya Lethemba, a one-stop centre, will be operational by November 2003 and this will be during the 16 days of activism. Services such as counselling, legal advice, medical and mental health services, transitional support services and training opportunities will be provided to victims. With the establishment of this centre, we will also be able to provide sanctuary and other technical service to victims of domestic violence, rape, child abuse, neglect and all other forms of sexual abuse.
Gauteng has targeted September 2003 to open victim empowerment rooms in areas such as Reyger Park, Nigel, Alexander, Magaliesburg, KwaThema, Rotunda and Carletonville. We have identified these areas precisely because we are targeting the areas which we feel are problematic in Gauteng. In order to make sure that women and children have access to appropriate services, capacity building and advocacy work will be conducted for police members and the community in areas such as Ivory Park, Orange Farm, Mamelodi, due to serious problems identified in those areas.
Since the province discovered that the youth is highly affected by crime, it has set aside R1,9 million to implement youth crime prevention initiatives. Our focus in Gauteng will be in schools. We will also target the youths who are out of school. This will be done through the implementation of Adopt-a-Cop and Tiisa Thuto projects in identified areas within the province. Efforts to improve police relations will be done through strengthening and capacitating community police forums and also through recruitment of professionals who will volunteer their services in order to help the police with necessary expertise. The pilot of establishing community safety forums in areas such as Tshwane and the Vaal- Rand will continue. Various social crime prevention initiatives that are based on local priorities, which have been identified, will be implemented.
Hon Ministers, this is a mammoth task that is faced by our province and our country. You might have heard, hon Minister of Safety and Security, that as we are dealing with prevention of crime the gangsters are also doing the same. They are organising themselves to ensure that they counter what the Government is trying to address. In the past two weeks, you will have heard, hon Minister, that in Tladi and Moletsane in Soweto, three members of a patrol in the community were killed by criminals. One of those members will be buried on Thursday. One wants to recommend that the hon Minister of Safety and Security should pay attention to one of the satellite police stations in Soweto: Naledi. Officers deployed in there need to be looked into as they have become something that we would not even want to mention.
Co-ordination, monitoring and evaluation of the criminal justice system will continue with more focus on ensuring that there is an improvement in the management of dockets and cases related to, particularly, women and children abuse. The focus will also be on monitoring the level of implementing plea-bargaining policy and diversion programmes. For these programmes, an amount of R885 000 has been allocated. An amount of R1,8 million has been set aside to raise awareness on key issues such as attack on police officers, discouraging people from buying stolen goods and community participation in policing.
If we cannot address these problems, we surely are to increase numbers in our prisons. The Ministers of Safety and Security and Correctional Services have to look into that. When we arrest, keep and suspend in courts, Correctional Services bear the brunt.
With all those words - hon Chairperson, I can see that you are threatening me but - I want to say that the establishment of three municipal service police stations in Gauteng has resulted in a significant increase of police visibility in the province.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPESON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time has expired.
Ms J L KGOALI: We support the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr T RALANE: Hon Deputy Chair of Committees, hon Ministers, Deputy Minister, MECs and members, after having inspected the quarterly reports issued by the National Treasury, the Joint Budget Committee discovered that the national Department of Safety and Security and, of course, Parliament are the only structures that had spent 100% of their voted amount by the end of March 2003. As elected public representatives, it is our duty to determine the tangible benefits derived from this spending in relation to safety and security.
Personally, it pleases me to be able to say that it is, in my view, not hugely difficult to determine the effects of this spending. In my constituency, Thabong, there is ample and visible evidence, and tangible results of the appropriations by the Department of Safety and Security. In Thabong, Welkom, a dramatic decrease in crime has been observed and recognised. There is good co-operation between the local police service and the community police forum. In addition, the local CPF is equipped with twelve vehicles in order for it to undertake the task to which it has committed itself. Moreover, we have an extension of CPFs in every ward in Thabong. Every step is taken to ensure that the CPF programmes reach the full range of members of my constituency.
Particular attention has been given to schools and churches in Thabong. The promotion of safety and security is done with the full co-operation of police officials. The CPF structures have formed effective partnerships with communities. This outcome, which we hope continues into the future, is consistent with the pledge given to the citizens of Thabong by our President, Mr Mbeki, in his state of the nation address on 14 February
- He said, amongst other things, that our security agencies would work very hard at implementing the National Crime Combating Strategy which targets and prioritises crime and police areas with the highest incidence of serious crimes.
It is also noteworthy that the Department of Safety and Security continues to improve the capacity of the Police Service in order to enable it to discharge its crime prevention and crime combating responsibilities in areas most adversely affected by crime. The residents of Thabong can, with absolute certainty, say that the Freedom Charter is a living document which says that all families shall enjoy security and comfort. It is appropriate to make that statement, because on Thursday 26 June we will be celebrating the 48th anniversary of the Freedom Charter.
I cannot avoid commenting on the eyesore DA posters which suggest that we should put 150 000 police officials on the streets. If we were to interpret this, literally, it could mean that the DA is suggesting that we make 150 000 police officials unemployed and redundant by putting them on the streets. This critical misinterpretation by the DA, a group which professes mastering the English language, is a serious indictment on their policy and values. Moreover, the Department of Safety and Security is committed to specialised visible policing which comprises the services of radio control, equestrian units, dog units and diving units.
Regarding the increase of expenditure on crime prevention by the Department of Safety and Security over the MTEF period, provision is made for the recruitment of additional personnel and employment of entry level constables over three years. The point is that the request by the DA to increase policing is not their claim alone. Such a requirement has already been budgeted for over the MTEF period. The DA, once again, tries to steal the show even though they are not anywhere near the centre of the action.
The acceleration in the growth of this Budget Vote No 25 - Safety and Security - reflects Government’s continued commitment to ensuring, above all else, the safety and security of all South Africans, and it ensures the employment of additional police officers.
We of the ANC support the Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, my colleagues, Ministers and MECs who are here, firstly, let me say to Kgoshi Mokoena that I don’t think I’ll give you the answers today on your concerns about escapes, overcrowding and the cost of APOPS. I want to make that the subject of a briefing to the select committee so that we can, I think, satisfy the concerns raised.
Our transition to a constitutional democracy, which signalled the break with the arduous years of oppression, violation of basic rights of citizens, policies of racial discrimination and general misrule directed at black people, demanded that we engage in a radical reform of our prison system. This penal reform process saw the promulgation of the Correctional Services Act 111 of 1998. Efforts were made to ensure that the correctional system operates in the spirit of our Constitution, as well as of international conventions and treaties.
In consolidating our strategic direction, our vision remains to be among the best in the world in delivering correctional services with integrity, excellence and commitment. This vision will be attained through a new range of services, namely: corrections, development, care, security, facilities and aftercare which will be provided to offenders in carrying out our mandate. These services will form the basis of our budget as soon as National Treasury approval has been obtained to recognise them as programmes. However, the strategic plan tabled in Parliament already provides for these programmes.
This we shall attain, I believe, by placing rehabilitation at the centre of our activities in a safe and secure environment, and strengthening our partnerships with the people of South Africa and our global partners, particularly the people of our continent, Africa, in the true spirit of African Renaissance under the programme of the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad. I am sure people are saying: Nepad and prisons, is he crazy? [Laughter.]
To this effect, Cabinet has approved the first meeting of Ministers responsible for prisons and corrections in the SADC region. The meeting will take place in Gauteng next week on 2 and 3 July 2003. This meeting will serve as a springboard to further talks that would involve the rest of the African Continent on corrections. Discussions in these meetings would set the agenda for the implementation of the African Union resolutions, and address the peculiar circumstances of the African people in the implementation of international conventions and treaties.
As South Africans, we believe that correction, both as self-correction and correction of others, is inherent in good citizenship. All citizens should contribute to maintaining and protecting a just, peaceful and safe society in our country by upholding law and justice, promoting the social responsibility and human development of all citizens.
Correction is therefore, as one of our members stated, not the sole responsibility of the Department of Correctional Services, but a shared responsibility of all individuals and social institutions such as the family; and educational, religious, sporting and cultural institutions, as well as other governmental entities. Of particular importance here would be the role of provincial governments and administrations responsible for education and social welfare. I wish to express my appreciation for the support that the Department has received from members of the executive council in the various provinces, in particular the MECs for safety and liaison. I see hon member Magadzi here, and hon member Ramatlakane, and I miss others. [Laughter.] We are appealing for more support and involvement from the provincial legislatures and executive councils.
The Department recently took the initiative to mobilise the Social Cluster to action regarding the transfer of children out of prisons. I appeal to the MECs of social welfare to take this as a personal responsibility, and to monitor the presence of children in prisons on an ongoing basis in order to address the blockages that lead to this unacceptable situation. This is an issue that we must all ensure remains constantly on our priority list. We welcome the partnership forged by the KwaZulu-Natal legislature and Ukhozi FM in assisting us with projects in that province. The work of the Social Cluster of Government in strengthening social cohesion and promoting social justice will make a major contribution to the Department’s rehabilitation and correction efforts, both through providing guiding ethical values to those already convicted, and ensuring the revival of the South African ethos and ethic of ubuntu/botho in our communities.
In cases where social institutions and society have failed, the criminal justice system and the Department of Correctional Services take up their responsibilities. At this level of correction, rehabilitation and the prevention of recidivism are best achieved through a person correcting their offending behaviour and developing themselves.
We are also deeply disturbed by the high influx of young people into our correctional or prison system. Statistics indicate that we have approximately 26 000 young people between the ages of fourteen and twenty- one years in our system, and about 49 000 who are between the ages of twenty-one and twenty-five years. The patterns in the nature of serious offences committed or allegedly committed by about 4 500 children under the age of eighteen years, who are awaiting trial or sentenced, are alarming. There are about 2 000 economic related offenders under the age of eighteen years, 1 800 aggressive crime offenders, 500 sexually-related offenders under the age of eighteen years, and 200 offenders for drug-related and other types of offences.
In addition to the numbers that I have already mentioned, we have 208 innocent children under the age of five who live with their mothers in prison. Faced with these trends, and in the context of dysfunctional families combined with the disjuncture between our constitutional values and the society that we have inherited, the community and social institutions must take on a more significant role in the development of a correcting and caring environment for children and youth. We need to pool our resources together in order to give particular and special attention to the youth of our country.
In a special Youth Day event for young offenders which was held in KwaZulu- Natal on 17 June 2003, that is last Tuesday, His Majesty, King Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu, led the way in guiding the youth of today when he said the following - that is, when he visited the prison with us. He was the keynote speaker in prison when he spoke to the young people in that province who came from all prisons in KwaZulu-Natal. This is what he said:
Criminal activities such as car hijacking, armed robberies, rape, housebreaking and laziness all underlie the extent to which this beautiful and powerful nation has lost its respected cultural and traditional values from which real socioeconomic development should take place. A return to social and traditional values of mutual respect, respect for human rights and dignity, in my opinion, is quite possible.
Young people in particular are the ones who should take a bold and courageous step, and say never in their lives will this day be commemorated without them defining and giving the direction with regard to how the nation should rid itself of the problems that hinder socioeconomic development and threaten lives of citizens.
As we commemorate this Youth Day, we should also appeal to each citizen of our province to remain an agent of peace, harmony and stability. We expect young people to be in the forefront in this crusade. Whilst you apply for jobs, try to do something for a living. If you do not do this, the temptation would be great for you to turn to crime that currently remains one of the most worrying problems in this country.
The Government is doing its best but unless citizens also do something on their own, the Government would certainly find it impossible to provide every citizen with a job.
The King ended by saying that:
Young people would need to declare an all-out war on social evils such as HIV/Aids, crime, bribery, corruption and other forms of criminal activity.
I have quoted this at length as an inspiration, and I appeal to other traditional leaders in our beloved country to join hands with the Government in the campaign for social crime prevention, moral regeneration and rehabilitation.
On average, the budget for rehabilitation increases by 8,3% per annum, that is from R264,8 million in 1999-2000 to R427,5 million in 2005-06. It must, however, be stated that with the focus and emphasis on rehabilitation, this budget would not be adequate. I think that hon Kondlo made this very clear to us.
As part of our rehabilitation initiatives in 2002, a total of about 22 360 offenders were trained in a variety of skills. Further establishment of training centres in the various provinces is aimed at equipping offenders with basic technical skills in a variety of fields such as brick making, bricklaying, woodwork, welding, garment making, etc. We also provide training in business skills in order to equip individuals to operate their own small businesses upon release, that is if you allow them out there. I would like to thank the Department of Labour for their assistance and financial support in this regard.
We also plan to enhance the utilisation of prisoner labour for self- sufficiency of the prison system, especially in food production, and to the generation of some income for the state. The Department estimates that it will generate approximately R80,2 million revenue during this financial year, and that this revenue will grow at a rate of about 4,5% per annum. All income generated is deposited into the National Revenue Fund. At this point, I simply want to pause and say, maybe, hon members, you want to debate in future that this kind of fund may assist in the education of the children of victims, and even the children of prisoners themselves because the children didn’t ask them to go and offend.
In pushing back the frontiers of poverty, Correctional Services engaged in a number of poverty alleviation projects to the value of approximately R496 000 in the past financial year. However, the biggest value we achieved was in engaging offenders in projects that had a direct benefit to the community through agricultural and building projects. We wish to thank community leaders, mayors, makgosi/amakhosi/marena, and members of this House who supported our efforts in the various communities. The championing of the need for rehabilitation, social crime prevention and moral regeneration that has been articulated by these leaders is a reflection of the niche that the Department is beginning to establish on the ground. The sustainability of such projects depends on the continued collaboration among communities, community-based institutions and ourselves.
The Department also has a range of programmes that are offered through partnerships with a range of NGOs. These are aimed at equipping young offenders with life skills in order to make a difference to themselves, their communities and their world. The Department has continued to develop a better understanding of its role in the implementation of restorative justice, and participated in a joint conference titled: From theory to implementation. That conference was led by the Department of Justice. The Department has also benefited from various activities, including joint training sessions conducted by officials from Canada who are regarded as leaders or experts in the implementation of this approach - that is, restorative justice.
The Department of Correctional Services is also constitutionally obliged to provide for the health care and physical needs of prisoners in compliance with national and international norms and standards on the treatment of offenders. Health and physical care expenditure is also expected to increase due to an increased provision for prisoners’ primary health and related health care to counter the spread of HIV/Aids and opportunistic infections in prisons, such as tuberculosis. As a part of our HIV/Aids strategy, we intend to conduct a prevalence and attitude survey which will be completed in 12 months from now in order to have the necessary information available to aid decision-making and facilitate the implementation of our HIV/Aids strategy amongst personnel and offenders.
Prison medical and dental services have up to now been rendered at no cost by the provincial health departments. However, due to financial constraints, this is apparently no longer feasible for the provinces. There is therefore a need for the Department to employ either sessional or full- time prison medical practitioners to render medical care to prisoners. This will have an impact on our budget, I believe.
The latest available figures indicate that our prison population stands at about 190 000, whereas our capacity is about 110 000 to 111 000. This means that we are overpopulated by about 79 000 people, or 71% at this point in time. It is public knowledge that overpopulation of prisons impacts negatively on staff morale, on the health of offenders, on effective safe custody, and on the ability of the department to allocate resources effectively for the rehabilitation of offenders. Moreover, it results - that is overpopulation - in abnormally high maintenance costs of prison facilities, and therefore a JCPS overcrowding task team, led by Correctional Services, monitors the performance of the criminal justice system in order to identify blockages that result in increased prisoner numbers.
A key mechanism in addressing the optimal utilisation of the detention facilities of Government, and avoiding overcrowding, is the effective functioning of the integrated justice system at provincial and local levels. It is also expected that the projects for the construction of four new facilities, which will have capacity of about 3 000 prisoners each, will begin later this year. These facilities will be built in Leeuwkop, Nigel, Kimberley and Klerksdorp.
The repair, renovation and maintenance programme, which is called Ramp, has focused on 12 prisons in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, and North West and resulted in the accommodation of about 863 more offenders. And, contracts have been awarded for 33 more prisons, of which 14 have been completed and the remainder to be completed during the current financial year. A further 146 prisons have been identified for the awarding of contracts. In future, it is our intention to involve prisoners in undertaking most of the repairs as part of their training programmes. I hope hon members could help in these efforts.
If we have to be successful in dealing with renovations and repair work on buildings, I believe that we need to move away from just being bogged down by unnecessary red tape of the so-called Ramp. The effectiveness of this programme would need to be evaluated to enable us to maintain the expected standards in the humane detention of offenders. We cannot afford to wait for a contractor from outside to fix a leaking tap, or water pipe, or a broken toilet when we have the requisite skills to do so. I appreciate the fact that my colleagues in SAPS would not do this. They would have to work through Ramp, and my colleagues in justice would have to work through Ramp. But, who are we fooling in Correctional Services if we say we are training offenders in skills such as plumbing, engineering and all those skills and then have to wait for months for somebody to come in and fix a toilet when these fellows can do it? This is why I am saying I hope hon members would help in enforcing this. I don’t want even to mention that we have problems with these Ramp programmes.
The promotion of community correctional supervision within the JCPS Cluster is a vital part of our strategy against overcrowding. Success in this entails the encouragement of communities to create an environment in which community correction is a viable option for sentencing. The Department aims to ensure that there is an integrated support system, a system of referral and networking that supports the offenders in their residential areas, and facilitates their reintegration into the communities from which they have come. Hence the importance of the establishment of community correction forums, which are functioning only in Limpopo, at this stage. We hope that this would spread and we do emphasise that they should be established in all provinces.
The responsibility for debating the value of alternative sentencing lies not only with the Department of Correctional Services, but also with us as members of Parliament. The conditions for South Africa to lose our status as the fourth most aggressive jailer in the world, after the United States, Russia and Belarus, have still to be created.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: May I ask the Minister to wrap up, please.
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: I am winding up, Sir. Through the slogan, ``Every member is a rehabilitator’’, the Department has asserted that the manner in which each and every staff member performs his or her task either contributes to creating an environment which promotes rehabilitation, or it militates against rehabilitation and correction of offenders. The ideal correctional official should find a high degree of compatibility and synergy with the code of conduct and the core mandate of the Department.
It is also appropriate for me, at this stage, to restate our commitment, as a department, to good governance and ensuring compliance with Government and departmental policies. The work of the Jali Commission, the investigations of the Special Investigative Unit, the anti-corruption campaign that I undertook, the work of the Inspecting Judge in the National Council of Correctional Services and other organs of the State, are beginning to bear fruit in the establishment of a clean and transparent administration. NGOs, and even ordinary citizens, family and friends of offenders share their concerns and perceptions with us, and enable the Department’s management to redress noncompliance with policy.
In conclusion, I must emphasise that while we have not been able to deliver everything that we had hoped to achieve in the past financial year, there have been successes achieved on our programmes. The updated strategic plan, the new organisational structure, the White Paper process that is under way, and the commitment of the dedicated personnel in the department bode well for the development of a more effective and focused administration of the department.
At this stage, I wish to thank our commissioner, Mr Linda Mti, management and staff for the excellent work that they deliver with diligence and commitment under strenuous conditions of our prison system. I also wish to thank Kgoshi Mokoena, the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development, and his committee for their support in the work that we do as a department. With these words, I want to say: God bless this House, God bless Correctional Services, and God bless South Africa. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, Mr Minister, for blessing our House.
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Deputy Chairperson, hon MEC and hon Ministers, when we boldly proclaimed in May 1992 that we were ready to govern, we were largely informed by the extent of work covered since the then levelling of the ground in the political landscape in the country. We were also mindful of the clear declaration of the congress of the people that, and I quote, ``there shall be work and security.’’ How I wish that this debate was held two days later than today - for obvious reasons, of course.
We also upheld that stance in our Constitution. Community safety and security is therefore a human right. We put in place various structures and programmes in order to ensure that these commitments are realised and maintained. Among others, these structures deal with the demilitarisation of the Police Service; civilian oversight in policing matters; formation of community partnerships; and the establishment of an independent body to deal with possible abuse of human rights which manifests itself in the form of injuries sustained or death which occurs in police custody.
These initiatives had to be executed by a transformed Police Service that works coherently with role-players in the community. As drivers of the programmes, the police had to reflect the requisite attitude for the transformation process to move faster. Attitude here can be defined as one’s perception of a particular situation which influences one’s conduct to move in a certain direction, in a given situation. In oder for transformation to yield the required result, it has to be driven by optimistic management, willing foot soldiers and underpinned by a healthy community partnership.
We are all aware of the inherent fear for change by mankind. Thus, pessimists would always try to swim against the tide, while optimists ease their progress by swimming in tandem with the tide. These are the officers from whom we derive a deep sense of pride for they advance the people’s contract for development. These officers realise that change will not just come on its own or by accident while they are just idling but they grab the bull by the horns knowing full well that, at times, change comes with turbulence, just as rain often comes with thunder.
The SA Police Service has covered a lot of ground in forging relationships and trust with the broader community by way of community policing forums. Indeed, fighting crime has become a joint effort by police as well as the community. I am very sure that the decline in crime can be attributed to this partnership. The overall activities and focus of the CPFs attest once more to the fact that safety and security is not just the only structural fortification of premises but the absence of fear and discomfort. Security entails the assurance that one is provided for, now and in the future, in all aspects of life.
A cause for concern though, hon Minister, is the assigning of CPF matters to junior officials in the SAPS, or the assignment of those matters to questionable characters in the service. In my area, I had a police officer who was fresh from suspension - due to some atrocities - who, immediately after the suspension was lifted, was made the contact officer for the CPF. This tendency kills this partnership. This also confirms the existence of a backward mentality and attitude that relegates CPF matters to mere sidelines to be attended to at leisure.
Some service centres have been without a functional CPF for over a year in my area. Of course, I am acutely aware of my role as a public representative in this regard. The absence of a CPF creates a void in the partnership of Government and community since community structures such as school governing bodies, ward committees, local economic development forums, etc also operate in some form of a cluster. When we declared that we were ready to govern, we also observed that, and I quote:
Developing the economy will in turn provide the basis for overcoming the divisions of the past without creating new ones.
Having progressed so well with regard to sectoral policing, one is, surely, not clear why the neighbourhood watch is still relevant in this regard. Of course, there are other parallel structures which are equally questionable.
In the latest report by the Independent Complaints Directorate, it is indicated that deaths of suspects in police custody have declined by 12,3%. Of course, we can do better than that. With the continued empowerment of officers through briefing sessions, support visits and workshops, we will surely arrive at a situation of overall ethical conduct and behaviour by police officers, and thus enable this country to report in the next few years a zero incidence of police killings and or suicide.
I appeal to you, hon members, to do the right thing by supporting this Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L RAMATLAKANE (Western Cape): Chairperson, Ministers in the criminal justice cluster, colleagues and members, as I speak in this debate of the criminal justice cluster, we are, indeed, in a position to report back that progress is being made and that progress has been recorded in various clusters regarding efforts to push back the waves of crime in various parts of our country, particularly in the Western Cape.
The challenges that confront our society, after a decade of freedom, continue to occupy a priority position within our Government’s overall mandate of creating a better life for all. The challenge of ensuring peace and stability in our community, regarding the most vulnerable sector in our society, will continue to occupy the centre stage of our deliberations and actions as we conclude 10 years of democracy in April 2004.
In the Western Cape, over the past 18 months, we have made tremendous effort in ensuring that the eradication of crime is not a sole responsibility of those who occupy public office. If we were to allow that situation to arise, that we as leaders become the sole custodians who determine the correctness of our actions in relation to crime, our victories would be short-lived. Therefore, it was with the concerted effort and determination that we launched various projects to mobilise our community to soldier on with the men and women in blue in order to bring peace to our streets and our towns.
The partnership that we have identified requires communities and local police to work in tandem to complement each other in bringing peace to the locations, suburbs and towns. I can report to this House that our Bambanani against crime campaign has been an overwhelming success. We have drawn in communities from the isolated pockets of our province in the Cape Town Metropole who have come out in their hundreds in support of this campaign.
This mobilisation drive by the Western Cape against crime does not only seeks to expose the wrongs of the police, but it simultaneously seeks to find a joint solution on which we can count. There is no denial that our police stations face challenges both in terms of personnel as well as operational capacity. This is the reality that many of our communities have acknowledged as something that we, collectively, have to work on in order to find a solution.
We will continue, in the coming month, to act in solidarity with our police in bringing stability to our streets so that we can be proud of them. By the same token, we acknowledge that unless we are prepared to put more people on the streets, in terms of visible policing, our campaign might well be in vain. To this end, with the support of the national Minister, Charles Nqakula, and National Commissioner Selebe, we have been able to deploy scores of police into the Cape Flats and our vulnerable areas in order to root out elements that continue to plague our communities.
Operation Tswikila is part of the provincial government’s overall strategy which aims to deal with organised crime and gangs, in partnership with our national counterparts, so that we can bring stability to our area. The results of operation Tswikila, thus far, have been tremendous. To date, our police have arrested over 2 000 suspects for various crimes. The majority of those suspects have committed serious violent crimes. Many of us would not be aware of the fact that whilst Operation Tswikila was under way, our police were further supported by hundreds of local community policing forums, neighbourhood watches and communities. This confirmed that crime prevention initiatives which are supported materially, will go a long way in cementing the work that is being done.
The strengthening of the secretariat’s and CPFs’ capacity is a very critical task. Reservists also participated in this partnership and that highlights the foundation that we have laid in the community. I want to assure members of this House that we will continue to implement and work together in Operation Tswikila in the province in order to ensure that we take back the streets.
Regarding the third phase of our programme, which concerns ensuring convictions and jail terms for the most notorious criminals, the success in the Western Cape is also by and large attributed to the high level of integration between our security agencies. In the past few months we have witnessed a number of high-fliers being arrested, and some have been sentenced to long prison terms. Work continues in order to make the life of criminals unbearable in the Cape Flats and is supported by our national Government.
These victories have not come about purely because of the good work of the prosecutorial system, but through being part of the long chain of events that involved all sectors of the criminal justice system working in tandem with one another. It is this level of commitment to supporting and working within the collective environment that we in the province are extremely proud of. We will continue to ensure integration at the highest possible level and, thus, afford all our communities unprecedented levels of delivery across the board.
Ensuring delivery to all communities has been a further achievement in our province, for example the establishment and opening of two courts which will service the communities of Khayelitsha and Blue Downs areas, and thereby bring justice to their doorsteps. We believe that the opening of these courts will allow the communities greater access to justice. However, more importantly, it will allow the communities to participate in the process of ensuring that justice is being done.
While our courts have an independent role to play in dispensing justice, we cannot ignore the reality that our community also have a role in supporting the overarching functions of the criminal justice system, as contained in our Constitution. The establishment of our courts in Hermanus will ensure that those who commit crimes related to marine coastal life are prosecuted. That, indeed, will allow the economy of this local community to be restored. The proliferation of wild life in the area has been disturbed, and all aspects of community life such as schooling, health, welfare and economic growth have also been affected. We believe that the establishment of these courts will begin to turn back the tide against criminals that have preyed on these communities.
In conclusion, the challenge that confronts our province are the challenges that, I believe, we will collectively succeed to overcome. The co-operation that the provincial government has received from the national Minister and National Commissioner, is one that will continue to afford us opportunities to deliver better life for all, and service. It will also afford us an opportunity to create more success stories in ensuring that peace and stability reign for all the people of our province. We will continue to work collectively as a criminal justice agency that serves one nation, and serves one people.
We will ensure that the partnership that we have developed across all communities continues to grow and bear the fruits of our struggle to live in peace and harmony. As we will be celebrating the 48th anniversary of the Freedom Charter in the coming days, we are reminded of the commitment that we made to our people which continues to remain our objective: the total liberation of our country; and to ensure security, peace and liberty for all South Africans - both black and white. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chair, the overwhelming majority of all people, if not in fact all people, are against crime. Even criminals themselves are against crime if they are the victims. [Laughter.]
The fear of crime, especially violent crime, against oneself or one’s loved ones, is one of the most basic fears of everyone. To effectively prevent and combat crime in our country remains a difficult and risky task with many facets, including addressing the root causes of crime. This is in spite of the many fully committed policemen and women and officials of the other departments in this cluster.
Although substantial progress has been made in the fight against crime, the levels of crime in our country, unfortunately, are still unacceptably high. It is, however, encouraging to note the many positive developments in the fight against crime. This observation is based on information gathered from the briefings of the cluster departments. We really want to thank them for that because all of them made exceptionally good briefings this year. Of course, the DA did not even bother to attend two of those briefings, namely the briefing by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development - that was yesterday - and the SA Police Service’s briefing on 9 June 2003. [Interjections.] They really do not like their propaganda plans to be confused by the facts. I am also encouraged by the commitment of the leaders and the vast majority of officials in these departments who work tirelessly to constantly find new and better ways of fighting and preventing crime. I wish to apologise to them that I cannot refer to all these positive developments today. However, I am sure they will understand that due to the negative speech by Mr Lever, I have to use some of my time to react to him and his party. [Interjections.]
Whilst all the officials and NGO’s such as Business Against Crime refer to the Government, and members and political parties who want to build a better future for all our people work very hard to create a safe environment for all our people, what does the DA do? True to their philosophy of ``what is bad for the country is good for the DA’’, their spin doctors put together a propaganda plan to hone in on this basic fear of people for crime and exploit it for their own selfish political gain, just like the old swart gevaar and fightback tactics. [Interjections.]
They came up with a petition in which, according to my information, they
asked people to sign, if you are against crime.'' Of course, they were
implying that they are the only ones who are against crime, and that the
other parties such as the ANC and the New NP are not against crime, knowing
full well that this is blatantly untrue. Knowing full well that they could
not put one policeman or policewoman on the street, they put up thousands
of posters that said:Put 150 000 cops on the street where you live.’’
Whether that is what is required now or not, or whether it is in reality the most important priority for all areas, does not concern them. As long as it’s catchy and it serves to mislead the voters into believing that if they vote for them, the DA, they will put 150 000 cops on the streets ``where you live.’’ [Interjections.] They, of course, do not tell the people the truth, namely that only the ANC-led national Government can, in fact, put more SAPS members on the streets or anywhere else. In the case of municipal police, only the executive or mayoral committees, on which they no longer serve, can do it.
However, they went further in a pamphlet and told a blatant untruth that the only way to prevent crime is to put more cops on the streets where we live. On the outside of that pamphlet is a photograph which depicts Tony Leon with two policemen in a way which looks as if he is on duty with them. [Laughter.] Inside the pamphlet he is shown in a photograph which was taken in a patrol car and has the caption: ``Tony Leon on patrol with the SAPS’’.
They went on and told a further half-truth with the intention to mislead
voters. They said: Since 1994, there has been an increase in attempted
murder, rape, assault and robbery.'' However, they did not say that there
has been a substantial decrease in murder by 30% - as stated by the
Minister today - and some other crimes such as rape over the past year, and
certain robberies, as pointed out. [Interjections.] They went further and
said we’’ - but who is ``we’’? They can beat the criminals.
[Interjections.] I wonder whether the Minister should not have this
pamphlet investigated because, in my opinion, it clearly constitutes fraud.
[Interjections.]
The fact of the matter is that the DA cannot do anything about the crime situation in South Africa. [Interjections.] They do not even have any influence whatsoever on this Government. [Interjections.] At best, they can be ignored. This whole campaign by the DA must be the most cynical attempt at politically defrauding the people of this country. Sadly, there are some people who are gullible and naive enough to believe them. What an utter disgrace. I hope and trust that the vast majority of South Africans will be able to see through this despicable and fraudulent plot and reject the DA with the contempt that it so richly deserves. There is ample and sufficient reason, which clearly came out of the very good briefings that we have had from the departments, for real hope that we will - as a country that is under the leadership of the ANC Government and with the constructive co-operation of parties like the New NP - succeed in our fight against crime; not because of, but in spite of all the efforts aimed at the undermining thereof by the DA. I thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Mr P D N MALOYI: Chair, as the chairperson of the backbenchers association, we demand more speaking time. Ten minutes is too little. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: You have a long speech!
Mr P D N MALOYI: Chair, I really don’t know what is it that Mr Matthee wants me to say after he has spoken. [Laughter.] However, let me speak about this: the DA says that we should ensure that specialist courts and prosecutors are in place for sexual offences. The impression that they give to everybody out there is that the Government, which is led by the ANC, is not doing anything about this matter. In terms of the briefing from the department, the department made it clear that we have established those courts and that we have prosecutors who are being trained from time to time. I don’t know where the DA was.
However, on a consistent basis, I have said to Mr Lever that it is necessary for him to read. After reading, it is necessary for him to ask questions. And, when he is answered he must listen, and listen carefully. [Laughter.] So, I’m not sure why Mr Lever is not doing what I requested him to do. [Laughter.] You know, him and his party, on a consistent basis, want to lie to the general public. [Interjections.]
Mr P D N MALOYI: The hon Rev Moatshe will agree with us … [Interjections.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to use the word ``lie’’? [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member Maloyi, please continue. [Interjections.]
Mr P D N MALOYI: It’s satanic to be very economic with the truth, Mr Lever. [Laughter.]
Mr Lever went on to say that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has taken too long to implement the Maintenance Act. I have told him, on a consistent basis again, that we are not running a shebeen. We are running a country. You don’t just wake up in the morning and implement. It means you need to plan and ensure that whatever you implement is sustainable. This is exactly what we are doing. However, because Mr Lever doesn’t listen, he doesn’t even know what the department is doing in order to address this particular problem. He is not even willing to tell the general public about the good which this Government is doing. However, this is the DA of today and there is nothing we can do about it.
In our last encounter with them, I said that we are from the same province with Mr Lever and that we are friends because we are of the same age group. [Laughter.] When I speak to Mr Lever, he is so positive. When he attends meetings of the department he is always progressive. However, when he sees his leaders, he talks something else. I don’t know whether this is because of his inconsistency, but I don’t think so. I think what he is doing is very near to political prostitution. [Laughter.]
As the ANC, we have said that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development should transform the judiciary in order to create a more representative, competent, sensitive, humane and responsible institution. From the discussions that we had with the department and its competent officials, we can confirm here, today, that we are on course and that we have done a lot for this country. We can also confirm, today, that there are other things that still need to be addressed and that we are going to address them. We know where we are going, and we are sure that our future is bright. Unlike the DA, we know that we are very proud of our past. They can’t say the same. The other important thing that we have been speaking about is the court services. We have agreed as a committee and as an organisation called the ANC - the gigantic one - that it will be necessary for us to agree with the department that splitting up administrative, judicial and prosecutorial processes will assist a great deal in ensuring that, amongst others, we increase the time of the magistrates on the Bench from four to five hours or so. We think that this is a step in the right direction. We support the Minister for that because we wouldn’t like a situation where our judicial officers concentrate on administrative work.
I raised three questions to the Minister before I went to London. [Laughter.] That was about the implementation of the Equality Act. I am happy to say that I think the department is also on track with the implementation of that particular Act. The department did assure our committee that most of the sections of that particular Act would have been implemented by the end of this year. This is very good and it is very great. Secondly, Mr Ralane who participated in the debate earlier today, is the chairperson of the budget committee. Mrs Mahlangu is also the chairperson of the finance committee. I’m starting the process of lobbying now. It is also necessary to ensure that this department gets enough financial resources in order for it to fulfil its mandate because you can’t just have a lot of functions without financial resources for those functions. Do you get what I mean? Lovely! [Laughter.]
The other matter is that of child maintenance. I’m not sure as to why our people, particularly the menfolk, make kids when they don’t want to be fathers. Regarding the womenfolk: why do they make kids when they don’t want to be mothers? However, because this thing is happening already. It is therefore incumbent upon this ANC-led Government to ensure that when you bring kids onto this earth, those kids must survive. Those kids must eat and there must be food on their table. If you are not willing to do that voluntarily, we will help you to do it. That’s the importance of this particular Act. We have visited the North West and the Eastern Cape, particularly those offices which have a number of problems. I think that the visit to the North West must have been from 2 to 3 April. Minister, because your department is competent, it has addressed some of those problems, and it is still addressing others. It therefore goes without saying that it would be naive and too stupid not to support this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, next year we shall have the third general election, and I know that when an election is approaching you begin to see some of the worst tendencies which are exhibited by some of us in the vain hope that we will capture the votes of the petrified, the undecided and the doubting Thomases. So, we will be inclined to see and do all sorts of funny things.
We will even, by the way, be inclined to tell absolute lies, and tell people that there is no delivery of clean potable water in Bryanston, Northcliff, Lower Houghton etc. Some of us will say, by the way, that those who live there - the Mrs Suzmans etc - have never had this sort of problem. So, there will be no need for delivery there. They have always taken this for granted: for instance, where Tony Leon grew up in a judge’s house when my father was a garden boy in Johannesburg.
Most probably they had flushing toilets in the houses while the Bantus ``moes nog buitekant gaan kak’’ in the townships. [Interjections.] They had a number of bathrooms and toilets in their houses. Mom and daddy had their own. There was a guest toilet. There was everything and all of them had cold and hot water, which was completely inaccessible to the Bantus. So, indeed, when you tell people who live there that there is no delivery, honest and intelligent ones among them will tell you that there is no need for that. Resources ought to move to where they are solely needed, where they don’t exist because of the past policies.
When you then go to people who were victims of the erstwhile system and tell them that there is no delivery, the honest and intelligent ones among them will tell you that the ANC has built schools where none existed before; that the ANC has built clinics where none existed before; that the ANC has built roads where none existed before; that the ANC has built courts where none existed before; and that people now travel shorter distances, at less cost, to access justice because the ANC took power through the vote in 1994. They will tell you that in 1994 the ANC found a situation where electricity was only accessible to 31% of the total population, and may I say, I knew of no white person who never took electricity for granted. I never knew of one. However, I can tell you that today over 72,5% of our people have access to electricity.
People will also tell you that a waterborne disease such as cholera afflicts blacks primarily, if not absolutely, in areas which have yet to be reached by way of providing them with clean potable water and sanitary conditions. Those are areas which were ignored by the powers that once were. It’s not because this disease is so endowed with intelligence that it can discriminate on the basis of race. No! It afflicts blacks because they live in those conditions.
It will never hit you in Tony Leon’s Lower Houghton - never! It will never hit me in Bryanston, because I am one of the most fortunate people who should be very grateful for the changes that have taken place in this country. [Interjections.] It will never afflict me. I take clean potable water for granted. I don’t even have to think twice about it. However, this was a preserve of the lily-white people not so long ago. We are changing these conditions.
I will give you a very simple Zulu Nguni saying which goes thus: Ukwanda kwaliwa ngumthakathi. [Interjections.] Loosely translated, it means that progress is actually hated by the most evil people. You know, when you say that you will not support a Budget Vote, some of us say we are lucky because we don’t need your support. [Interjections.] We have the right numbers behind us. If we did not have the numbers then, indeed, we would create a situation where there would be no money to do these very selfsame things that you say are not being done while we say they are done.
In other words, you take this stance deliberately to make sure that there is no money to do those tasks because we can’t spend Government money, state money, without approval by this institution, Parliament. We can’t. All expenditure beyond that point would be irregular. That’s it. So you have these ill intentions which you hide behind the so-called nondelivery and we need to address that. We work with some of the finest South Africans.
I now want to start with corrections. There is not a single person who is in jail today who is an angel. All of them have committed some crime or other; young and old, black and white, and male and female. They are there and none of them is there because they have not, at one point or another, had to be investigated and were found guilty. None of them would wake up in the morning say, ``I just want to go to jail. I’ll bypass the police stations, the Scorpions, prosecutors, and the courts. I’m just going to knock hard on Minister Skosana’s and Linda Mti’s doors and tell them that I now have a change of heart. I have committed a crime’’. Bayaxhathisa, mfondini. [They resist.] They resist in the courts because they don’t want to go there. They go there because hard work preceded their convictions.
Those are not some of the finest people you would comfortably live with. Some of them are there because they have cut off people’s throats, raped children, and have done all sorts of things. They are not saints. So, we have had to work very hard and we are working very hard to rehabilitate them so that in the fullness of time, when they are released, hopefully, they will go back to communities and play a much more useful role there. This is what is being done.
Let me come back to the police. These are the selfsame people, sir, who are being killed by these thugs. The Minister and I were taken by the police to the seaside where they showed us videos, Minister, of police officers at war with organised crime. They were fighting over our marine resources, to which a speaker before me alluded. There is war over these resources. If these people did not do the bit that the Minister and I were allowed and privileged to see them do, I shudder to think what would be happening now. Those elements would have long taken over. So, I would never agree with anyone that the system is dysfunctional.
Yes, we do not deny or dispute the fact that the system has problems, but show me, in this world that is occupied by men and women, a country which has a perfect criminal justice system. It does not exist. The best one on earth with the powers of the FBI, the CIA and a whole lot of things was defeated by people who allegedly crawled out of the caves of Afghanistan. [Interjections.] That’s it.
I can tell you that here, in case you have forgotten, bombs exploded not so long ago. We put out the selfsame men and women of Intelligence, Safety and Security, the Scorpions, and they rounded them all up and were prosecuted by these very selfsame failing prosecutors. Now, they are all, uncomfortably so, guests of this Minister. All of them are doing long sentences and up to life sentences and yet, indeed, in the small minds of some people the system is dysfunctional.
There were bombs that exploded only last year in September, in Gauteng. I’m proud to say that there is now a Boeremag case before court, again, because Intelligence, which according to some people is dysfunctional, did its work; because the SAPS did their work; and, again, because the prosecutors are doing their work. I am personally proud to have been associated with these people who work, may I say, for a pittance. What you and I get from Parliament here, they don’t get there. Yet, these men and women of the Republic of South Africa wake up in the morning and face these elements who have resources that are actually bigger than theirs. [Applause.] We who operate in this institution, should be the last ones to say that they are a failure. The safety and security that we enjoy, the growing economy that we can brag about are, indeed, by and large, all ascribable to the efforts of these people because they do their best. This country is not the crime capital of the world. It has all sorts of problems. It has, as has been said, a high crime rate, but it’s not the leader. If you look at the figures put out by the UN, by Interpol etc, South Africa would turn out to be the least of their worries. I will tell, as I’m about to conclude, the story of a very interesting young police officer. The Minister has heard the story so many times but, Minister, if you don’t want to hear it again, please block your ears.
The story goes thus: There is a big man whom we arrested and who is called
Papas. He brought a tonnage of drugs into this country that was worth over
R210 million. When that young police officer collided with him in a room -
and it was just the two of them - the man opened a briefcase which had all
sorts of exotic watches which the Ministers and I saw: Rolexes, Omegas,
whatever, and he said, Take these and go''. The young police officer
said,I am also arresting you for attempting to bribe me’’. He took the
briefcase, closed it and it’s going to be an exhibit before our court in
respect of a charge of bribery. [Applause.]
The story of that young man does not mean that there is no corruption in
the system. There is corruption, and whenever we find the corrupt elements
we deal with them. Indeed, unlike those who sit on the pavilion and scream
that the system is dysfunctional, we make sure that the good elements in
the system succeed. Thankfully, they are the majority in the system. We
recognise and reward the efforts that they make and we shall always do so.
I am saying, in conclusion, that this country is very fortunate in that it is led by the ANC majority, because if it was led by other people we would not, indeed, be enjoying the bit that we have enjoyed in the past nine and a half years.
Indeed, I am saying to the people of the Republic of South Africa: Many spirits will creep out or crawl out very soon. Put them to this one test: Ba be ba le kae? [Where were they?] Where were they in those days when it was tough in this country; when, indeed, to serve in the struggle for the emancipation of our people from the ravages of apartheid was not fashionable? Where were they? Can they be trusted now, post the demise of apartheid, when they not only worshipped or glorified it, but actually benefited from it, and some of them are still clinging to the privileges thereof? They will tell you all sorts of things that are wrong with affirmative action and transformation, because transformation is producing the sort of society that they never wanted to see.
They will scream their lungs dry very soon and say fight back'' in order
to reverse even the bit that is happening. Those who have now seen the
restitution of their land without any unnecessary socioeconomic disruption
are grateful to us, because there was no restitution programme prior to our
coming into office. They will never agree with you when you say there is no
delivery because, as we deliver to those, we begin to rekindle the hopes of
those who are still waiting in the long queue to see delivery. They say:
Iyeza nakum le mini yokusondezwa kweenkonzo. Le nqwela iyakude ifike
nakwesam isitrato’’. Ndiyabulela. [The day of delivery will come to me too.
This wagon will eventually come to my street. Thank you.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson, hon Matthee, I come from a tradition and experience that is shared by the great majority of the members of this house. We understand the difficulty of making people understand concepts that were very very foreign to them. They were not eager to help us establish democracy in this country. However, we had to do something extraordinary and we had to bring them along through proper teachings and logical arguments.
The consequence is that what we had already made preparations for in 1955 only became reality in 1994 because there were so many people that we had to bring along, as I say, through argument - logical argument. We have, once again, agreed among ourselves that we should continue to persuade people, particularly during this time, in order for them to understand the concept of democracy.
In that spirit we are quite willing to assist people like the hon Lever and I am going to assist him. [Laughter.] He has come to this House and has told us that the hon Douglas Gibson raised a question in the National Assembly. I am not going to quibble with him about the fact that the hon Gibson ought to have indicated to him that there was a response to what he raised. I want to help him understand, in his own right, so that nobody will then tell him an untruth.
He has quoted here figures that he says come from the Medical Research Council. Indeed, this is their third annual report which is called a Profile of Fatal Injuries in South Africa. Regarding this report, if the hon member had read and internalised its contents, he would have understood the difference between the figures that are provided in this report and the figures that the police provide. In this report, the first thing that the researcher did was, in the first instance, to take an unrepresentative sample of mortuaries, randomly, and then made estimates of unnatural deaths; not only murder, but unnatural deaths. Hon member, let us say you go to a mortuary and see three people who have died from gun wounds. Because those people died from gunshot wounds, you can’t say that they were murdered because one person could easily have died while cleaning their weapon and accidentally a shot went off and they died; or they could have committed suicide. Thirdly, they may have been killed. However, when you see those corpses in the mortuary that story is never told. You cannot rely on surveys like that above real figures that the police provide, because those real figures relate to real incidents. The police deal with incidents and they go on record those incidents. So, in the end, the real results will be those that relate to the police. However, if you read this report properly, you would have come across the following sentence:
Because the registered cases were not adequately representative of rural areas, the data were not used to calculate national rates.
What we talk about is a national figure and these people could not have arrived at national figures because their own survey has weaknesses, as they themselves say. If you have an understanding of these things, please read properly and then come to the House and place true facts and figures.
They talk all the time about statistics. Hon Lever, unfortunately, I did not anticipate that there are still people who pose this as a serious question. If I had anticipated this, I would have brought the annual report that we put out last year that talks to these various statistics that they say they want.
Another one is coming out in August. They say that they don’t want that
one. I ask them the question: What do you want?'' To date, they have not
told me what they want. I don't know to what extent we can help them, at
least, understand propaganda. The same thing that they talk about when they
say,Put 150 000 police on the streets’’ is the same thing that my son,
who is seven years old, can say. It’s unscientific. He can say the same
thing, Put 150 000 police on the streets.'' However, we, who are
scientific, are going to ask you questions. When we adjourn here, please go
to whomever is a member of the DA and ask them separately what they mean
when they say,Put 150 000 police on the streets.’’ They won’t know,
because this is unscientific and nobody has talked to it.
However, let us just assume what they possibly mean. They possibly mean that we must add 150 000 police officials to what we already have. They are, possibly, saying that. Or they are saying, let us take more than 150 000 police officials that we will have and let them do nothing else: they must be on the streets. Maybe they are saying that. We don’t know what they are saying. Or they are doing what my son can easily do. A seven-year old can stand there and say: ``Put 150 000 police officials on the street.’’
Hon Matthee, you have spoken about the possibility of preferring charges against them for fraud. There are many charges we can prefer against them. I said in the National Assembly that they have made themselves guilty of plagiarism because they have produced something that they say is an alternative to our policing strategy, meanwhile it is our strategy. We could easily do that.
Secondly, there is a law that says - and here is my lawyer and there are other lawyers over there - that outside of election campaigns, you cannot put the kinds of posters that they have in the streets, as we speak. There is a law like that. We could charge them with that as well. Of course, we won’t charge them. We want to help them understand what democracy is about. We want to ensure that we bring them up to, at least, a respectable level of political understanding. [Interjections.]
Let me just refer to this and I want him to go and read it. This is an article which appeared in the Business Day yesterday. When you read this report you will learn what a person who is a former journalist of The Guardian in Britain says about these things that they talk about. In the end the person says:
On a broader level, this country is stable, if anything too stable. The African National Congress set out its table in the form of the Constitution and there is no danger of either it or the Constitution being overturned in the foreseeable future. The rule of law is impeccably observed.
This is a long article that he must go and read in order that he may understand what is happening here. Thank you. [Applause.]
IPHINI LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUVIKELA: Sihlalo, kuqediwe. Mhlawumbe engingakusho nje ukuthi i-DA ikhethe ukuthi kule nkulumo-mpikiswano, kule Ndlu, ingakhulumi ngezokuVikela ngoba bayazi ukuthi bakhuluma emaphephandabeni.
Bayasigxeka emaphephandabeni. Abafuni ukuthi umNyango wezokuVikela wenze umsebenzi wawo wokuletha ukuthula e-Afrika. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chair, it’s done. Perhaps what I can say is that the DA chose not to talk about security in this debate, in this House, because they know that they talk to newspapers.
They are criticizing us in newspapers. They don’t want the Department of Safety and Security to do its job, that of bringing peace in Africa.]
They know that they oppose us through the media and that they will oppose us in the National Assembly. However, as Ministers Nqakula and Maduna have said, it doesn’t really bother us because the people of this country have very good memory. They know that the founding fathers and mothers of the DA said that the former SA Defence Force was right for going into Botswana to kill our people, and I can name them.
Today they want to be known as people who fought for our freedom, but we were here in this country when they condoned the raid on innocent people: the Batswana and Basotho that were killed. Those are the founding fathers and mothers of the DA. We said that the history is always present. The founding fathers and mothers of the DA supported a qualified franchise in our own country. They said that it was all right that rich blacks could be allowed to vote - a qualified franchise - while the majority of this country were not allowed to vote. I think that they should be ashamed.
Okokugcina-ke, ngiyayibonga le Ndlu. ngibonga nale nkulumo-mpikiswano esibe nayo. INkosi uMokoena uphakamise umbuzo ngamakhomando. Siyazi ukuthi ngesinye isikhali leso asebefuna ukusisebenzisa njengesikhali sezepolitiki ukuze bathole amavoti abantu, ikakhulukazi labo bantu abangabalimi. Siyabonga-ke uma, kule Ndlu, sibona abamhlophe abazimisele ukuhambisana nenqubekela-phambili. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Lastly, I thank this House. I also say thank you for this debate that we have just had. Kgoshi Mokoena raised the question of commandos. We know that that is another political weapon they want to use to gain peoples’ votes, particularly those who are farmers. We are grateful, in this House, if we see white people who are committed to progress.]
It’s always encouraging to listen to the debate in this House, such as manner in which the hon Mr Matthee’s debated. It really makes us very confident to see that there are whites in this country who want to move forward and build a united, nonracial, democratic and nonsexist country. We really applaud them.
Akukaze kube nokudideka kuHulumeni mayelana nokuthi yini esiyenzayo ngamakhomando. [There has never been confusion on the part of the Government as to what it is doing with commandos.]
In the state of the nation address, the President informed the House and the country that the role of the commandos in policing is being phased out over a period of five to six years. That is what we are doing, and we’ve made it very clear that that is what we are doing. The JCPS cluster, that is led by Minister Nqakula, has had presentations from the department where they explained to us how this process is going to unfold.
Of course, the commandos, as you know, belong to the army reserves. It doesn’t mean that since we are pulling them out of policing we are then going to throw them into the streets. They belong to the army reserves and will be used in a manner which will be determined by the chief of the army and the Chief of the South African National Defence Force.
Therefore, it is propaganda to go to the farming community and say that this Government does not care about rural communities. When I went to the rural communities, the hon Prince Zulu said that …
… ikakhulukazi ezindaweni zamakhosi, sithola lapho ukuthi amaphoyisa awafinyeleli ngokwanele. Akuphi amakhomando lapho ezindaweni zamakhosi ngoba amakhomando siwathola esebenza ikakhulukazi ezindaweni zabamhlophe? (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[… particularly in traditional leaders’ areas, we understand that the police do not access those areas as they should. Where are the commandos in the traditional leaders’ areas, because we find them, particularly, in white areas?]
Of course, what they have done more recently is to take a black member, give him a camouflage uniform and say that they are transforming the commandos. When I visited Paulpietersburg, I stopped one of such members who was in an SANDF uniform. I asked him questions which he couldn’t answer regarding the leadership of this country. I asked myself, ``Where did they pick this man from?’’
Sengisho ukuthi-ke lokhu kudideka kuyinto engekho. Kudalwa yilabo abafuna ukusebenzisa inqubo kaHulumeni ngokuyiphendulela, baqambe amanga futhi babeke kube sengathi thina silwa nabalimi. Asilwi nabalimi. Ukuphepha ezindaweni zasemakhaya kungumsebenzi woMnyango wezokuPhepha nokuVikela. Zikhona nezinhlelo zokwandisa izinhlelo zokuphepha ezindaweni zasemakhaya nasemapulazini. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[I’m saying that this confusion is unfounded. It is caused by those who want to distort the Government’s policy and they lie, and also make it look like we are fighting against farmers. We are not fighting against farmers. Safety in rural areas is the Department of Safety and Security’s responsibility. There are structures for increasing safety programmes in rural areas and on farms.]
Those are the few words that I wanted to say. Finally, regarding the question of the sexual offences courts, I am surprised. In fact, the hon members have explained to us that the problem of the hon member Lever is that he neither reads nor listens. He doesn’t even watch television. I don’t know where he is when this Minister and his Deputy open sexual offences courts, one after another. Why doesn’t he watch television? Maybe during that time he is in the bar, because a lot of their members spend a lot of time drinking and come to the House drunk, and make a lot of noise. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, briefly, in defence of Mr Lever, I was informed that, because you leave this House late and some of you do not have anything in your own fridges for tonight, our fellows have prepared some bites for you. That is in defence of Mr Lever. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Apart from that, I simply want to thank all the hon members who took part in the debate and mentioned all these aspects of the criminal justice cluster. I’ve already made an agreement with Kgoshi Mokoena that we will deal with the points that he raised in a briefing. I also want to thank Prince Zulu for some of the points that he mentioned in terms of how overcrowding really occurs in prisons and how he wants to see that being alleviated.
I want to thank the hon Kondlo for what she said, explicitly, about the need to raise budgets and have more resources for Correctional Services in order to deal with those aspects, especially rehabilitation, the training of our own staff and pursuance of the ex-offenders in co-operation with the NGOs.
I know that the Budget Votes will be coming next year and, from now on, you are going to miss my two colleagues who are orators. You will see them next year. These are real orators and I can’t keep up with them. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
USIHLALO WAMAKOMITI: BoNgqongqoshe abahlonophekile, Baba uMaduna, Baba uNqakula, Mama uRoutledge, Baba uSkhosana, asinibonge kakhulu ngokusethulela inkulumo enisethulele yona namhlanje. Masibonge ukuthi izwe lethu sifuna ukuthi liqhubekele phambili. Noma bayathanda noma abathandi … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Ministers, hon Maduna, hon Nqakula, hon Routledge, hon Skhosana, thank you so much for the speeches that you have delivered for us today. We are grateful that our country is progressing. Whether they like it or not …
… we will go forward. Thank you very much for your commitment. I say thank you to the hon members. As you have heard, the Minister of Correctional Services wants to correct our stomachs. Therefore, you are then invited to have some bites at Marks Building. I am sure that Mr Kolweni will arrange that members are taken home safely. Thank you very much for participating in the debate. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 18:15. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
TUESDAY, 17 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- Referrals to committees of tabled papers:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Security and Constitutional Affairs:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Human
Rights Commission for 2001-2002, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.
(b) Strategic Plan of the South African Human Rights
Commission for 2003-2006.
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Education and Recreation:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Foundation for
Education, Science and Technology, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for the period 1
April 2002 to 30 November 2002 [RP 38-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Geographical Names Council for 2001-2002.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Land and Environmental Affairs for consideration and report:
(a) Southern African Development Community Protocol on
Forestry, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Southern African Development
Community Protocol on Forestry.
WEDNESDAY, 18 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Assent by President in respect of Bills:
(i) Geoscience Amendment Bill [B 7 - 2003] - Act No 11 of 2003
(assented to and signed by President on 3 June 2003).
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Insert doc “rep-bud” from disk
THURSDAY, 19 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Assent by President in respect of Bills:
(i) Bophuthatswana National Provident Fund Act Repeal Bill [B 13 -
2003] - Act No 13 of 2003 (assented to and signed by President
on 14 June 2003); and
(ii) Sefalana Employee Benefits Organisation Act Repeal Bill [B 14 -
2003] - Act No 14 of 2003 (assented to and signed by President
on 14 June 2003).
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Health:
(i) National Health Bill [B 32 - 2003] (National Assembly -
sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
introduction published in Government Gazette No 23696 of 8
August 2002.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Health of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
20 June 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bills may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
(2) The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
On request of the Minister the following Bills were introduced by
the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs in the
National Council of Provinces on 19 June 2003:
(i) National Environmental Management Amendment Bill [B 29 -
2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) [Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 24935 of 30 May 2003].
(ii) National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30
- 2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) [Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 24935 of 30 May 2003].
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
NOTE: These Bills were introduced by the Minister of
Environmental Afffairs and Tourism on 10 and 11 June 2003,
respectively, but he has since requested that they be
introduced in the National Council of Provinces.
As the Bills introduced today have not been printed again, the
information relating to the House of introduction and person
in charge of the Bill, as reflected on the front pages of the
Bills, is incorrect. As mentioned above, the Bills have, in
fact, at the request of the Minister of Environmental Afffairs
and Tourism, been introduced in the National Council of
Provinces by the Select Committee on Land and Environmental
Affairs.
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 19 June 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B 35B - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Financial and Fiscal Commission Amendment Bill [B 21B -
2003] (National Assembly - sec 76).
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of
the National Council of Provinces.
(iii) Mining Titles Registration Amendment Bill [B 24B - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Economic and
Foreign Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
FRIDAY, 20 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 19 June 2003 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bill as a section 76
Bill:
(i) National Road Traffic Amendment Bill [B 31 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 76).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:
(a) Water Tribunal Manual published in Government Gazette No 24626
dated 28 March 2003: Manual for the purposes of section 14 of the
Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000 (Act No 2 of 2000).
(b) Government Notice No 568 published in Government Gazette No
24794 dated 2 May 2003: Transformation of the Citrusdal Irrigation
Board, Magisterial District of Clanwilliam, Western Cape Province,
into the Citrusdal Water User Association, Water Management Area
Number 17, Western Cape Province, in terms of the National Water
Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(c) Government Notice No 715 published in Government Gazette No
24920 dated 6 June 2003: Prohibition on the making of fires in the
open air, the destruction by burning of slash and clearing or
maintenance of fire belts by burning and the execution of
blockburns: Districts of (A) Ermelo, Eerstehoek, Carolina and
Waterval-Boven; (B) Piet Retief and Wakkerstroom, in terms of the
Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).
(d) Government Notice No 716 published in Government Gazette No
24920 dated 6 June 2003: Prohibition on the making of fires in the
open air, the destruction by burning of slash and clearing or
maintenance of fire belts by burning and the execution of
blockburns: Districts of Nelspruit, White River, Pilgrim's Rest,
Lydenburg, Belfast, Waterval-Boven, Carolina and Barberton, in
terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).
(e) Government Notice No 717 published in Government Gazette No
24920 dated 6 June 2003: Prohibition on the making of fires in the
open air, the destruction by burning of ground cover, including
slash, the clearing or maintenance of a fire belt by burning or
the execution of blockburns: KwaZulu-Natal, in terms of the Forest
Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).
MONDAY, 23 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
-
Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism: (1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 19 June 2003 in terms of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75 Bills:
(i) Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Bill [B 27 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 28 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
(2) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 19 June 2003 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bills as section 76
Bills:
(i) National Environmental Management Amendment Bill [B 29 -
2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76).
(ii) National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30
- 2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76).
- Translations of Bills submitted:
(1) The Minister of Transport:
(i) Nasionale Padverkeerwysigingswetsontwerp [W 31 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 76).
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the National
Road Traffic Amendment Bill [B 31 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec
76).
TUESDAY, 24 JUNE 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Withdrawal of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Finance:
On 18 June 2003 the Minister withdrew the following Bill:
(i) Financial Services Ombud Schemes Bill [B 13 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 24 June 2003 and transmitted
for concurrence:
(i) Appropriation Bill [B 8 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec
77).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of
the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
The President of the Republic submitted the following letter to the
Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces informing Parliament
of the employment of the South African National Defence Force:
EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE IN COMPLIANCE
WITH THE INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
TOWARDS THE UNITED NATIONS ORGANISATION
This serves to inform the National Council of Provinces that I
authorised the employment of South African National Defence Force
(SANDF) personnel in order to fulfill the international obligations of
the Republic of South Africa towards the UN in The Eastern Democratic
Republic of Congo as part of disarmament, demobilisation, re-
integration, repatriation and the resettlement programme of the UN.
This employment was authorised in accordance with the provisions of
Section 82(4)(b)(ii) read with Section 227(l)(b) and (c) of the
Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1993 (Act No 200 of
1993), [which Sections continue to be in force in terms of Item 24(l)
of Schedule 6 to the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996
(Act No 108 of 1996], read further with Section 3(2)(a)(iv) of the
Defence Act, 1957 (Act No 44 of 1957).
A total of 1 268 personnel, will be deployed for a period of one year,
making a provision for a rotation after every six months, as follows:
(a) 950 X Infantry Battalion Group
(b) 100 X Support Element
(c) 175 X Engineer Company
(d) 15 X Ferry Unit
(e) 12 X Water Well Drilling Unit
(f) 16 X Military Police
The expected costs for the deployment of personnel to the mission area
as from January 2003 to end of financial year 2005/2006 are as follows:
2003/2004
Personnel Allowances: R171,552
Initial Non-Inventory: R169,511
Logistic Support: R128,083
TOTAL COST R469,146
LESS 2003/2004 ALLOCATION R-28,731
To be Supplemented R440,415
2004/2005
Personnel Allowances: R171,552
Logistic Support: R178,936
TOTAL R350,488
The total estimated reimbursement from the UN for Initial Non-Inventory
Equipment, for Personnel Allowance and for Logistical Support will
amount to R200 million.
The National Treasury advised that the shortfall should be addressed
through the normal budgetary process.
I will also communicate this report to the Members of the National
Assembly, and wish to request that you bring the contents of this
report to the notice of the National Council of Provinces.
Regards
T M MBEKI
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
SEE HARD COPY ATTACHED