THURSDAY, 3 JUNE 2004 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

  APPOINTMENT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER AND REPORT ON PUBLIC
                     PROTECTOR'S SPECIAL REPORT

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I hereby move:

That the House appoints an ad hoc committee, in terms of Rule 214, to consider and report on the Special Report on an investigation by the Public Protector of a complaint by Deputy President J Zuma against the National Director of Public Prosecutions and the National Prosecuting Authority in connection with a criminal investigation conducted against him, the committee to -

(1) consist of 17 members, as follows: African National Congress 10; Democratic Alliance 2; Inkatha Freedom Party 1; other parties 4;

(2) exercise those powers in Rule 138 that may assist it in carrying out its task; and

(3) report to the House by 25 June 2004.

Agreed to.

                     SITTING HOURS OF THE HOUSE

                         (Draft Resolution)

USOTSWEBHU OMKHULU WEQEMBU ELIBUSAYO: Somlomo, ngaphandle kokubalula kwesigaba 23 somthetho wale Ndlu, le Ndlu –

(1) ivumelana ngokuthi isikhathi sokuqala ukusebenza ngomhla ka-15 kuJuni ngolwesiBili kuyoba yihora lika-9 ekuseni. (2) Le Ndlu iyazisola ngokuthi ngomhla ka-10 kuMeyi yaqala umsebenzi wayo ngehora le-10 ekuseni. (Translation of Zulu draft resolution follows.)

[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move:

That, notwithstanding Rule 23, the House -

(1) resolves that, on Tuesday 15 June, the hours of sitting will be from 09:00 to adjournment; and

(2) condones the starting time of the House at 10:00 on Monday, 10 May.]

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, the hon the Chief Whip speaks impeccable isiZulu and mine is not as good as his, but I still did understand what he was saying. What he was trying to do was to sneak past the House a resolution concerning 10 May. I want to make it clear for the record that the DA greatly disapproves of the House breaching its own rules and doing so in a calculated fashion and doing so … An HON MEMBER: Again?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: No, this was the last time and I am hoping that it will not happen again in future.

Because, what we succeeded in doing was, to an extent, casting blight over what should have been a happy occasion for South Africa. I think it was really unfortunate that instead of planning the thing properly and getting the House in advance to approve, what happened was that the House agreed to go ahead and breach its own Rules and now it is asking for us to condone it. It is a shame. We believe in the rule of law and we must abide by the rule of law. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Gibson, what I want to correct, though, is that you said that the hon the Chief Whip was sneaking something past the House. It is actually on the Order Paper. It is part of the Draft Resolution that the hon the Chief Whip is moving. So, I mean, you may put your view forward without saying that it was sneaked in because it is actually on the Order Paper.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, could Mr Gibson withdraw that statement, because it implies an improper and dishonest motive on the part of the Chief Whip.

The SPEAKER: Hon Gibson, do withdraw that because I think the record must be straight about what was happening. There has been a request for you to withdraw the reference to having sneaked it in because it does in fact indicate dishonesty, which really is unfair.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The hon the Chief Whip is certainly not dishonest, madam. I did not see the Order Paper, but I withdraw the statement. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: All right. So, there was an objection to the motion. The DA has already expressed its view on this matter and it is thus known. However, the House would like to indicate that this issue has been brought back to the House as we had promised ourselves that we would do on the morning of 10 May.

In view of the fact that we have had that objection we would then proceed to record our views on the issue that is in the motion and so I now put the question and those in favour will say: Aye'' and those against will say,No’’. I think the ayes have it.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: The DA calls for a division.

The SPEAKER: The DA calls for a division, so we will have the bells rung for two minutes.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, but Mr Gibson still has not withdrawn.

The SPEAKER: No, he did. Did he not? Did he not withdraw?

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, can you please settle down. I would like to first proceed with the voting and then we will come back to the issue of the withdrawal. A division having been called for, we will now record our voting. Members must make sure that they are sitting at their desks where their names appear so that we can record their positions accurately. Those in favour of the question should press yes'' and those against should pressno’’ - and those who would like to abstain should press ``abstain’’. [Interjections.]

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 233: Ainslie, A R; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S E; Asmal, A K; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bici, J; Biyela, B P; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Cachalia, I M; Chalmers, J; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Dhlamini, B W; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Diko, M; Dipico, E M; Direko, I W; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Dlamini-Zuma, N C; Dodovu, T S; Doidge, G Q M; Du Toit, D C; Dudley, C; Durr, K D S; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs , J L; Gaum, A H; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Goniwe, M T; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hanekom, D A; Hangana, N E; Herandien, C B; Hogan, B A; Holomisa, B H; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Johnson, C B; Johnson, M; Joubert, L K; Kalako, M U; Kannemeyer, B W; Kasienyane, O R; Kati, Z J; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lekgoro, M K; Lekgoro, M M S; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabandla, B S; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabuyakhulu, D V; Madasa, Z L; Maduma , L D; Magau, K R; Magazi, M N; Magubane, N E; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahomed, F; Mahote, S; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Manana, M N S; Manie, M S; Mars, I; Masala, M M; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masithela, N H; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mdladlana, M M S; Mdlalose, M M; Mentor, M P; Meruti, M V; Mlangeni, A; Mnandi, P N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnguni, B A; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Mokoto, N R; Molefe, C T; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Motubatse- Hounkpatin, S D; Mpaka, H M; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Ndlovu, V B; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R A; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Nhleko, N P; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J; Njobe, M A A; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nogumla, R Z; Ntombela, S H; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Padayachie, R L; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phala, M J; Pheko, S E M; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C M P; Rasmeni, S M; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schneemann, G D; Sefularo, M; September , C C; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau, Sylvia N; Sikakane, M R; Simmons, S; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith , V G; Solomon, G; Sonto, M R; Sotyu, M M; Stephens, M; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Turok, B; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C; Van Wyk, Annelizÿ; Vezi, T E; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L L; Zita, L; Zondi, K M; Zulu, B Z; Zulu, N E;

NOES - 52: Batyi, F; Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Botha, C S; Burgess, C V; Camerer, S M; Coetzee, R; Davidson, I O; De Lille, P; Delport, J T; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Gore, V C; Greyling, L W; Haasbroek, S F; Harding, A; Jankielsohn, R; Kalyan, S V; King, R J; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Lowe, C M; Maluleke, D K; Masango , S J; Minnie, K J; Mnyandu, B J; Morgan, G R; Morkel, C M; Mulder, C P; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Nkem-Abonta, E; Ntuli, R S; Opperman, S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Semple, J A; Smuts, M; Steyn, A C; Swart, M; Swart, P S; Taljaard, R; Trent, E W; Van der Walt, D; van Dyk, S M; Wang, Y; Waters, M; Weber, H; Zille, H;

Motion accordingly agreed to.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, regarding the withdrawal of Mr Gibson, I have verified both with his senior Whip and with himself and have received confirmation that he indeed did withdraw. [Interjections.] Let us take Mr Gibson’s word that he withdrew. We really have no reason to want to do otherwise. The hon member says he withdrew. Let us take his word for it. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, it sounds as if there are some people who doubt it, so to put it beyond doubt, we can look at the Hansard. In any event, I withdraw it again.

The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Mr Gibson. [Applause.] Hon members, that concludes the business of the House. Members are reminded that we still have extended public committees taking place in the Old Assembly Chamber and in E249. These will start in ten minutes from now.

The House adjourned at 14:14.