National Assembly - 09 September 2004
THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:00.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Dr C P MULDER: Dankie, agb Adjunkspeaker. Ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Huis sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis-
(1) ‘n bespreking voer oor –
(a) die beplande afdanking van 7 600 werkers by Telkom ondanks
Telkom se wins van R4,5 miljoen; en
(b) die aanbevelings en verslag van die drie vakbonde by
Telkom om hierdie saak te beredder; en
(2) ‘n standpunt inneem ten opsigte van wat die Regering as grootste aandeelhouer in Telkom behoort te doen om hierdie afdankings te voorkom. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Dr C P MULDER: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:
That the House-
1) discusses the –
a) planned retrenchment of 7 600 workers at Telkom in spite of
Telkom’s profit of R4,5 million; and
b) recommendations and report of the three trade unions at
Telkom to address this matter; and
(2) takes a stand in regard to what the Government as the majority shareholder in Telkom should do to prevent these retrenchments.]
Adv Z L MADASA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates whether the state-owned enterprises are truly contributing to economic growth and job creation in the country.
Thank you.
NATURAL DISASTERS IN KWAZULU-NATAL
(Draft Resolution)
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
(1) notes that -
(a) lately snow and rain in KwaZulu-Natal have caused many road
accidents in the area;
(b) one such accident has caused the death of Montclair police
commissioner Superintendent Danny Kuppasamy when a driver lost
control of her vehicle and it collided into his; and
(c) Kuppasamy was an admirable policeman who dedicated his life to
the service of the community and that he will be greatly
missed; and
(2) extends its deepest regret and condolences to the bereaved family and friends of the victim; and
(3) calls on -
(a) all motorists in the area to drive with caution; and
(b) the road services to make roads less slippery.
Agreed to.
CANDIDATURE OF MR MOOSA FOR IUCN CHAIRPERSON
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Camagu Sekela-Somlomo. [Greetings Madam Speaker.] I move without notice:
That the House – (1) notes the candidature of Mr Mohammed Valli Moosa, the former Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, for the position of IUCN President at the third World Conservation Congress of the International Conservation Union, (IUCN), to be held in November 2004 in Bangkok, Thailand;
(2) believes that Mr Moosa has a high standing in the international conservation community and the ability to ensure that the diverse interests of the IUCN’s members and those of its Commissions are accommodated within the IUCN’s complex setting;
(3) furthermore believes that he could play a key role in taking forward the concerns and interests of African countries;
4) also notes that-
a) natural resource management and conservation, as advocated
and practised by the IUCN South Africa in particular, has
become an important mechanism for addressing poverty;
b) the South African government and IUCN are pioneers in their
methodology of community involvement in nature conservation,
integrated rural development, livelihoods, natural resource
management and particularly issues of land restitution,
protected areas and marginalised communities; and
c) conservation in South Africa speaks of a holistic approach
that sees the role of the human being and his need for
development within the context of environmental
sustainability – in this regard South Africa has played an
important role at a global level, hosting both the World
Summit on Sustainable Development and the World Parks
Congress in 2002 and 2003, respectively; and
(5) affirms its support for the candidature of Mr Mohammed Valli Moosa for the position of IUCN President. [Applause.]
Agreed to.
MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS
TOURISM MONTH
(Member’s Statement)
Mr J D ARENDSE (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes the celebration of Tourism Month in September, a joint venture between government and the tourism industry. It was launched in 1997 in recognition of World Tourism Day, held annually on 7 September, with a primary focus on placing tourism high on the national agenda. This year, as we celebrate a decade of our democracy, the Tourism Month’s celebrations come at a time when the people’s contract to create work and fight poverty is the main pillar of both this government and the country’s focus. Tourism has been, and still continues to be, a major creator of job opportunities.
The ANC supports the objectives of this Tourism Month, which are: firstly, to encourage South Africans to travel within the country in support of the recently launched ”Sho’t Left campaign”; secondly, to make them aware of tourism opportunities available in the country and; thirdly, to make tourism products accessible to all South Africans and encourage all South Africans to create a safe and welcoming environment for visitors.
We call on all our people to support this Tourism Month and all major events that go with it. I thank you. [Applause.]
KANNALAND MUNICIPALITY
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr W P DOMAN (DA): Agb Adjunkspeaker, dit is nie goed genoeg vir die ANC- premier van die Wes-Kaap om bloot te erken dat die manewales van die ANC- burgemeester en ANC-raad van Kannaland Munisipaliteit vir die ANC ’n verleentheid is nie, maar om dan in dieselfde asem die ANC se belange bo die belange van die belastingbetalers te plaas, deur te sê dat daar geen sprake is dat die ANC self teen burgemeester Donson gaan optree nie.
Premier Rasool se verweer dat ondersoeke daarop dui dat Donson onreëlmatig opgetree het, maar niks onwettig gedoen het nie, is lagwekkend, en dui daarop dat die ANC sy hande in onskuld was terwyl ’n munisipaliteit in die grond in bestuur word.
Dit is tragies dat 28 amptenare van die munisipaliteit nou afdankingsbriewe ontvang het as gevolg van die finansiële wanbestuur by dié munisipaliteit waar bevind is dat langtermynskuld nooit self vereffen sal kan word nie. Voor die verkiesing het die ANC vir Donson tydelik geskors om stemme te kry. Nou het die ANC weer ’n besoek deur die provinsiale portefeuljekomitee gekanselleer om die ANC verleentheid te spaar in die oorlooptydperk.
Die DA het voortgegaan met die besoek. Hulle is getref deur die armoede wat daar heers en die vrees onder gemeenskapsorganisasies vir hulle uitvoerende komiteelede se veiligheid. Die DA weet dat mnr Rasool se leierskap in die Wes-Kaap op wankelrige bene rus, maar dit is tyd dat hy optree – selfs teen die lede wat van sy eie faksie is. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans Member’s Statement follows.)
[Mr W P DOMAN (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, it not good enough for the ANC Premier of the Western Cape simply to admit that the antics of the ANC mayor and the ANC Council of the Kannaland Municipality are an embarrassment to the ANC, whilst in the same breath placing the interests of the ANC above those of the taxpayer by saying that there is no way that the ANC itself would act against Mayor Donson.
Premier Rasool’s defence that investigations indicate that Donson acted irregularly but not illegally is ludicrous and suggests that the ANC is washing its hands in innocence whilst a municipality is being run into the ground.
It is tragic that 28 municipal officials have now received notices of dismissal as a result of the financial maladministration at this municipality where it was found that it is in no position to settle its long-term debt by itself. Before the elections, the ANC temporarily suspended Donson in order to win votes. Now the ANC has once again cancelled a visit by the provincial portfolio committee to spare them embarrassment during the floor-crossing period.
The DA proceeded with the visit. It was struck by the level of poverty that exists in the area and the fear of community organisations for the safety of their executive committee members. The DA is aware that the leadership of Mr Rasool in the Western Cape is on shaky ground, but it is time that he acted – even against the members of his own faction.[Interjections.][Applause.]]
FAKE MARRIAGES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr T E VEZI (IFP): Madam Deputy Speaker, priests hold a very high moral standing within society and are looked upon for moral guidance and leadership. It is therefore with great shock that we have learnt that the SA Police Service has arrested a Johannesburg priest, who was also a registered marriage officer, for allegedly conducting at least 600 fake marriages between foreigners seeking South African nationality, and unsuspecting local women.
According to the SAPS he is believed to be part of a syndicate operating nationwide. We congratulate the police on the arrest and hope that they succeed in their ongoing investigations into these syndicates that are involved in the marriage scams. It is obvious that the sanctity of marriage does not mean much to this morally challenged priest, and we hope that he has not done any lasting damage to the reputation of the many priests who are still looked upon for guidance and still believe in the sanctity of marriage. I thank you. [Applause.]
IRREGULAR PAYMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT GRANTS IN KWAZULU-NATAL
(Member’s Statement)
Mnu D M GUMEDE (ANC): Sihlalo, ngizokhuluma ngesimo sokukhwabanisa kwezenhlalakahle KwaZulu-Natali. UKhongolose uyasihalalisela isinqumo esithathwe uhulumeni wesifundazwe saKwaZulu-Natal sokugunyaza uhlelo lokuvumbulula imikhonyovu emnyangweni wezenhlalakahle kulesi sifundazwe.
Lolu phenyo luzobheka indlela iziphathimandla ezagunyaza ngayo isondlo nezenhlalakahle okubonakalayo ukuthi yayingekho emthethweni. Kwelinye lamahhovisi esifundazwe eliseMzinto kutholakale ukuthi ezimalini zesondlo ezingama-97, ezingama-90 kuzo zaphuma ngomkhonyovu. Ziyisikhombisa kuphela ezitholakale ngendlela esemthethweni. Kutholakele futhi ukuthi kwabangama- 37 ababheka abantwana, abangama-35 kubo bathola isondlo ngendlela engafanele.
Uphenyo olwenziwa ngabakwa-KPMG njengamanje lukhomba ukuthi abayi-11 kwabayi-14 bezikhulu bayathinteka kulo mkhonyovu. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] Ngiyabonga. (Translation of Zulu Member’s Statement follows.)
[Mr D M GUMEDE (ANC): Chairperson, I will talk about fraud in the social development grants in KwaZulu-Natal. The ANC applauds the decision taken by the provincial government in KwaZulu-Natal to authorise the unearthing of fraud in the department of social development in this province.
This investigation will look at the way in which the officials authorised the grants in the department which manifestly did not deserve approval. In one of the provincial offices in Mzinto it was found that out of 97 grants, 90 were fraudulent. It was also found that out of 37 foster care grants, 35 of those should not have been approved.
The investigation done by KPMG as of now shows that 11 out of 14 officials are involved in this fraud in one way or another. Thank you. [Time expired.]
TAIWAN STILL EXCLUDED FROM THE UN
(Member’s Statement)
Mr Y WANG (ID): Madam Chair, the ID knows that while the United Nations welcomed East Timor and Switzerland as its newest members two years ago, Taiwan’s 23 million people have remained unrepresented for over 30 years. Despite all the UN’s achievements in peacekeeping and conflict resolution the world over, the complete exclusion of Taiwan from the UN still poses a moral and legal challenge to the international community.
So, following a long period of international isolation, the international community has again embraced South Africa after its successful democratic transition. Like South Africa, Taiwan has also recently undergone a democratic change of government and similarly places an equally high value on human rights. While South Africa is now a very active member of the international community, Taiwan is still excluded from this important international body, the United Nations. It is time to allow the voice of the 23 million people who are living in Taiwan to be heard.
We, therefore, on behalf of the Taiwanese community in South Africa, call on all the people and the government of South Africa to support Taiwan’s bid to the UN with action, so that Taiwan may work hand in hand with South Africa and make a contribution to the rest of the world. Thank you.
MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr K D S DURR (ACDP): Madam Chair, the ACDP welcomes the discussion between President Mbeki and others and senior Israeli politicians from the Likud Party in a bid to make a contribution to the Middle East peace process, using our experience in South Africa. The House respects the wisdom and humility shown by our President when reflecting upon the deliberations.
For South Africans to have any influence in the Middle East we will need to build credibility and earn the trust of all the parties concerned in the peace process, particularly that of the Israeli government, the Palestinian civil authority and other political parties in the region.
It is vital also that we inculcate greater trust and foster increasing goodwill between the competing parties. This we can achieve by acting impartially and by guarding against being judgemental when incidents of lawlessness or retaliation occur. In the meantime South Africa should continue building financial trade and cultural relationships with the parties concerned, and be prepared for the long haul. We wish our President well in this important initiative. I thank you.
MASSIVE NEW NASA INSTALLATION
(Member’s Statement)
Mr E N N NGCOBO (ANC): Madam Chair and hon members, the ANC welcomes the initiative taken by our government for the bid to host a massive NASA installation that may one day control the first human navigated mission to planet Mars. The NASA project is one of the four huge potential or existing space projects, which can turn Southern Africa into the world’s most complete hub for the exploration of the universe.
If approved, the NASA project will be joining the Hess Gamma Ray Observatory in Namibia, which is the largest of its kind in the universe. If we succeed in our bid to host the NASA project, South Africa will be directly involved in NASA planning for the 2020 landing on the planet Mars.
These projects would place Southern Africa in the poll position to answer some of the crucial questions in science that have so far escaped humanity. The presence of these NASA stations within our borders would encourage learners and students to redouble their efforts in their maths and science subjects. To those who teach these subjects it will serve as a greater incentive to dig deep into their research about these subjects. Thank you.
DISPENSING FEE CHARGED BY PHARMACISTS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr R COETZEE (DA): Chair, it is becoming increasingly clear that the dispensing fee that pharmacists may charge, in terms of the regulations governing medicine prices, is inappropriate and unreasonable, and likely to cause the closure of many pharmacies. It is particularly shocking that the pricing committee did no proper research into the economic impact of those regulations on pharmacies.
Pharmacists from around the country have produced hard evidence that shows the dispensing fee will force them to operate at a loss, and that as a result many will have to close shop. Pharmacy closures will make it harder for South Africans to access safe medicines. If pharmacies close, patients will be the losers.
The Minister needs to intervene urgently to resolve this crisis. She should withdraw the regulations and ask the pricing committee responsible for them to produce clear and reasonable regulations that are based on a proper impact assessment of their likely impact.
CONDEMNATION OF INCIDENT AT BESLAN PRIMARY SCHOOL
(Member’s Statement)
Prof S M MAYATULA (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC learned with great shock and sadness of the incidents at Beslan Primary School. We join the international community in condemning in the strongest possible terms the murder of innocent civilians and school children. During the three-day ordeal, women and children were denied access to medication, food, water and basic rights to relieve themselves.
The hostage takers forced the hostages to drink urine. More than 348 innocent souls were lost. We refuse to accept any justification for the killing of innocent children and women, especially for political reasons.
We join our government in extending our deepest condolences to the Russian government, the families that lost their loved ones and the people of Russia. We wish all those injured a speedy recovery. Thank you. [Applause.]
SERIOUS PROBLEMS REGARDING METRORAIL
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S B FARROW (DA): Madam Chair, judging by the streams of complaints coming into our DA offices, clearly something is wrong with Metrorail, and commuters seem to be getting no assistance or response from the Minister or the department. The Minister’s own experiences on Metro Rail recently substantiate some of these complaints, namely that trains are cancelled without notice, that they arrive late, that changes in timetables take place without consultation, that congestion at station exits and entrances cause delay. Poor or no security exists at stations, despite promises that the transport police pilot project would be implemented on 1 April in Cape Town this year.
Coaches are dirty and vandalised. Employers and workers alike have had enough. The time has come for strong action to safeguard the economy and to prevent job losses caused by overcrowding and late arrivals. The DA calls on the Minister to reconsider Metro Rail’s future as a monopoly, and to implement measures to increase efficiency and improve service levels in order to abate the present situation.
We should also urgently review the position of the passenger rail utility within the broader public transport plan and consider the possibility of introducing new partnerships into the rail commuter market to get Metrorail back on track before the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Thank you, Madam.
KIDNAPPINGS IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L K JOUBERT (IFP): Thank you, Madam Chair. Kidnapping seems to be a growing phenomenon in South Africa. In many cases children are the victims of this cowardly crime. There have been incidents of kidnappings occurring almost simultaneously in provinces around this country.
In the Western Cape, for example, numerous children who had been reported missing were later found murdered. In Gauteng there was a high-profile case recently where a young woman student was kidnapped and later found murdered. In Limpopo province a young boy was kidnapped and mutilated while he was still alive. He, too, later died in hospital.
Very worrying, especially for the families of these victims, is that many of these cases are not solved. Families are therefore left with many unanswered questions while the murderers walk free.
We urge the government to try and find ways to prevent kidnappings from occurring as well as means for bringing the perpetrators to book. I thank you.
MURDERS IN MADLANKALA
(Member’s Statement)
Ms T E LISHIVHA (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC condemns in the strongest possible terms the murder of a grandmother and her two grandchildren aged two and five years. The community of Madlankala, outside Esikhawini, was rudely woken by the sound of guns and cries of victims of violence. Our thoughts are with the family of the victims and the community of Madlankala.
We call on Esikhawini community to mobilise itself against crime and work to strengthen co-operation between the people, the community, the policing forum and the SA Police Service in that area. We therefore call upon the SA Police Service not to leave any stone unturned in their investigation, and to bring the perpetrators of this heinous crime to book. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): ANC?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Chair, on a point of order: The ANC submits a whole long list of potential speakers. But, after an ANC member has spoken, a DA member should come in. Then, if you see somebody, with respect, the ANC can have another turn.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Hon member, I’m afraid that in terms of an agreed formula of the Rules committee, this is the order in which this will take place. Therefore, if it has to be changed, it will have to go back to the Rules committee. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Chair, there is no agreed arrangement whereby the ANC would have two successive speakers.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Hon member, would you mind taking that up with the Whips where they can perhaps sort this out and not here. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
NORTH WEST PROVINCIAL GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT SUMMIT
(Member’s Statement)
Ms L L MABE (ANC): Ke a leboha modula setulo. [Thank you, Chairperson.] The North West provincial government, business, labour and civil society recently held a provincial growth and development summit at Sun City. That summit was a resounding success. It paved the way for economic development in the province in order to address poverty eradication, issues of the dual economy and broad-based black economic empowerment. / The ANC congratulates the Development Bank of South Africa, Absa, Standard Bank, FNB and the mining company, Xstrata, for their pledges and commitment to ensure that they participate and contribute to economic transformation in the province. This is engagement in the people’s contract to eradicate poverty.
MEDICINE PRICES AND POSITION OF PHARMACISTS
(Minister’s Response)
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMPILO: Sihlalo, uCoetzee ukhuluma izinto angazazi nje. Bengicabanga ukuthi uCoetzee uyilungu leKomidi lezeMpilo lePhalamende. Sigqigqe ekomidini lezempilo siya kochaza ukuthi yini ebeyenziwa yikomidi lezamanani. Uma efika lapha akhulume sengathi akalona ilungu lekomidi, kungcono asitshele. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, the hon Coetzee speaks about something he doesn’t understand. I thought the hon Coetzee was a member of the Portfolio Committee on Health. We have been up and down before the Portfolio Committee on Health to explain what the pricing committee has done. When he comes here he speaks like a person who is not a member of the committee; he had better tell us.]
What I want to state categorically is that I will not withdraw the regulations. There is an unwavering commitment from this side of the House to bring down the prices of medicines in this country. [Applause.]
Kudala osokhemisi bevala ngaphambi kokuba siqale lo msebenzi. Base bevele bevala kwakuqala ngoba behluleka ukusebenza ngokubambisana nabanye. Enye into futhi engifuna ukuyisho ukuthi bake bavala lapha eCape Town kodwa baphinde bazivulela ngokwabo, singabancenganga.
Angithi bafuna imali? Bayoqhubeka benze njalo – bavale bavule, bavale bavule. Kodwa izindawo zethu zezempilo zona zizoqhubeka zisebenze, abantu bathole imithi emitholampilo nasezibhedlela zikahulumeni. Uma bengafuni, sesiyobonana phambili. Futhi uCoetzee uyazi ukuthi le ndaba isenkantolo, ngakho-ke iwudaba esingeludingide. Uyangiqala nje, kodwa angizikuvuma ukuqalwa uyena. [Uhleko.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[The pharmaceutical companies were closing down even before we started. They were closing down because they were failing to work together with others. I would like to add that here in Cape Town at one stage they closed down and they reopened on their own without anyone begging them.
They need money. They will continue doing so - closing down and reopening, closing down and reopening. Our places of health will continue to operate; people will get medicines from clinics and public hospitals. If they don’t want this, we will meet in court.]
The hon Coetzee is aware that this matter is before the court and therefore is a matter we cannot discuss. He’s teasing me but I will not allow him to tease me. [Applause.]]
EMPHASIS ON DEVELOPING DOMESTIC TOURISM MARKET
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Chairperson, I would like to react to hon Arendse’s statement. Internationally the trend with regard to tourism was a negative one, whereas in South Africa we had quite the opposite trend. But if we really want to be a successful country tourism-wise, we have to develop our domestic market.
That is why in this tourism month we are concentrating on developing the domestic market. The hon member refers to the very successful domestic tourism market campaign that is on our television sets at the moment. We are receiving extremely good feedback with regard to it. We have no doubt that the figures will actually support our view in that regard in a very short time.
There is an emerging market in the country of 6,3 million South Africans who never before saw themselves as being able to go on holiday. We are concentrating on that market. We want to convince them that it is within their ability and their grasp also to be tourists in their own country.
We will celebrate tourism month in September. The culmination of the events will be on the 27th of this month in Phalaborwa, Limpopo, and a week or two after that we will also have a tourism conference to which we have already invited all the key-players.
Cabinet has identified tourism as one of the growth sectors and we will continue to . . . [Inaudible.] [Applause.]
TRADITIONAL HEALTH PRACTITIONERS BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I am looking for the hon Minister of Health.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: You can’t look for me on that side of the House. [Laughter.] You are looking in the wrong direction - I sit on this side! [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Sihlalo, malungu ahloniphekile ePhalamende, belaphi bendabuko, ngiyanibingelela ngentokozo enkulu futhi ngethemba ukuthi nize lapha ukuzozizwela ngezindlebe zenu ukuthi zinto zini esizama ukuzenza ukubuyisa ubuntu bethu nenhlonipho yamasiko ethu. [Ihlombe.] Malungu ezigungu zezifundazwe, ama-MECs, nani ngiyanibingelela futhi ngiyathokoza ukuthi ninathi namhlanje. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[Chairperson, hon members and traditional healers, I have pleasure in greeting all of you, and hope that you have come to listen to us and to find out what it is that we are doing to reaffirm our Africanness and respect our culture. [Applause.] I also greet the members of provincial councils and MECs, and it is with pleasure that I see you are also with us today.]
Therefore it gives me great pleasure to present to you today the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill. It would be an understatement to say that traditional health practitioners have been around for a long time in Africa and other parts of the world. They sustained the health of African people, like some of us, over centuries.
Unfortunately, this important source of life for millions of our people suffered severe degradation and oppression when our history and culture as Africans was being eroded during the era of colonialism and apartheid.
Nabanye abangalapha basaya futhi ezinyangeni ebusuku. Ningacabangi ukuthi abayi ngoba bayaya. [Uhleko.] [Ubuwelewele.] Ngiyakuncoma phela, ngikuncoma.[Some members of the opposition do go to traditional healers during the evening. [Applause.] [Interjections.] I appreciate it.]
It was not so long ago that traditional health practitioners were being labelled with such derogatory names as witch doctors and wizards. Those who consulted these health practitioners and remained faithful to our cultural beliefs were castigated as demons and heathens.
As with other sections of our society, the indigenous health system resisted this oppression, and that is why we still have some 200 000 traditional health practitioners in our country. I am sure the number will increase. Of course, the lack of regulation and co-ordinated development has had some negative impacts on this section of health care.
There are those who used this situation to falsify claims of being traditional health practitioners with the aim of ripping off our people and exposing them to all kinds of health risks. All this has come to end.
Now, as we reclaim our history and dignity during the African century, and as we begin the second decade of our freedom and democracy, we are not alone in our intention to recognise the role and importance of traditional health practitioners and traditional medicines.
In fact, a week ago we established a committee among Malawi, Zimbabwe and us to further investigate traditional medicine. Also, the SADC Health Protocol states that the 14 SADC member states should endeavour to develop mechanisms to regulate and better understand traditional heath. The World Health Organisation has already declared 31 August as an African traditional medicine day, which we celebrated for the first time last year in our country.
The WHO strategic plan on traditional medicine makes a series of recommendations for its 196 member states. Key amongst these is the official recognition of and legislation on traditional medicines by national governments, and the recognition of this field of practice as an equally important component of national health care systems.
Some of the priority areas identified by the WHO are: identification of and research into safe and effective traditional medical treatment for diseases that represent the greatest burden; recognition of the role of traditional medical practitioners in providing health care; and preservation and protection of indigenous traditional medical knowledge.
Hon members, the proposed legislation on traditional health practitioners that is before you today will go a long way towards the realisation of these priorities. The Bill creates a framework within which many of these priorities can be systematically dealt with involving traditional practitioners themselves.
Our work in this field as the Department of Health is not only limited to regulating individual practitioners in the area. During the African Traditional Medicine Day last year we launched the National Institute for African Traditional Medicine as a reference centre for traditional medicines. The centre is a joint initiative involving the Department of Health, the Medical Research Council, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and traditional health practitioners themselves.
Its objectives are, amongst other things, the establishment of an information system on traditional medicines; the promotion of research and development focused on standardisation and authorisation of products based on medicinal plants; the identification of education and training needs relating to traditional medicine; the protection of indigenous knowledge; and the promotion of trade in an environmentally sustainable and economically viable way.
Similar reference centres have also been established in other provinces, including here in the Western Cape, as part of our comprehensive plan for the management, care and treatment of HIV and Aids. We have transferred more than R6 million for research into traditional medicine that brings benefits to people living with HIV. We have also established a pharmacological vigilance centre at the Medical University of SA, Medunsa, in order to monitor the impact of these and other Aids-related treatments.
The passing of the Bill before you, hon members, will affirm the dignity and respect to which thousands of traditional healers and millions of their patients are entitled. The Traditional Health Practitioners Bill has been in the making for a while. The Portfolio Committee on Health explored the possibility of regulating this sector some six years ago whilst I was still its chairperson, following consultative forums that were held in various provinces.
It has taken this long to finalise this Bill, because it is a groundbreaking piece of legislation. There are no precedents to follow, except our general understanding of how other practitioners are regulated and the information provided by traditional health practitioners on their functions.
Traditional health practitioners are clearly not the same as doctors, nurses and other conventional health practitioners in their approach to the delivery of health services. The question was whether they could be regulated in a manner similar to that of other health practitioners. We therefore made sure that we came up not just with a Bill that recognised their uniqueness, but also made it possible to set professional and ethical norms and standards and empower them to regulate themselves as professionals.
Formal legal recognition of the practice of traditional medicine has a number of benefits for practitioners and their patients. In terms of the Medical Schemes Act, schemes may only pay for health services rendered by registered health practitioners. When this Bill is passed, traditional health practitioners will become registered practitioners in terms of the law. [Applause.]
Another advantage is that genuine practitioners can be distinguished from charlatans. Only those who are properly skilled will be able to practice. Because this is a new area for us, we will have to develop the regulations in collaboration with traditional health practitioners through the Interim Traditional Health Practitioners Council. The main objective of the interim council is to make recommendations to the Minister of Health on the composition and the constitution of the permanent council, its scope of practice and required education and training, as well as norms and standards of practice.
We are seeking to regulate four kinds of practitioners: The diviners, or izangoma; herbalists, or izinyanga; traditional birth attendants; and traditional surgeons. Anyone wanting to practice traditional medicine will have to be registered with the council. They will have to satisfy the council that they possess the necessary skills and knowledge to render traditional health services. Patients will also be able to appeal to the council when aggrieved with the service.
The majority of traditional health practitioners consulted during the development of this Bill wanted to be recognised and regulated by the House and government. They want to be recognised as valuable partners in the provision of health services.
The Traditional Health Practitioners Bill will be of significant benefit to thousands of traditional health practitioners and millions of their patients. The vast majority of people of this country use the services of traditional health practitioners as a first point of contact with the health system.
I thank you for your time. I trust you will support the enactment of this Bill and contribute to restoring the dignity of millions of Africans. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, as the DA we support this Bill, just as we opposed the medicine regulations that have come into effect. And if the Minister thinks that people are going to stand in queues in hospitals for up to 14 hours a day in order to get medicines because the chemists have closed down, then I think she, in the words of George W Bush, “misunderestimates the amount of unhappiness that exists out there”. [Interjections.]
The DA supports this Bill, and we believe that there are three good reasons to do so. The first is that the Bill confirms and formally recognises the central role that traditional healers play in seeing to the health needs of our people.
It is not just South Africans who are increasingly recognising that traditional medicine has a value, which has long been neglected by formal health systems. The World Health Organisation’s first global strategy on alternative medicine advocates the integration of Western and traditional medicine. Last month Ebrahim Samba, the World Health Organisation’s regional director for Africa, appealed to African countries to be more active in developing traditional medicine to reduce deaths from preventable diseases such as malaria. He stressed the need for mutual respect and closer co-operation between modern and traditional health practitioners.
It is very likely that traditional medicine will, in the future, give us new hope in the treatment of diseases that continue to rob our people of their health and their lives. Our own Medical Research Council has already started to explore these possibilities with research into indigenous knowledge systems, and in this it joins many other African countries doing similar work. Moreover, traditional health practitioners are all in private practice, and they take on a large part of the heavy demand for health care in our country that would otherwise fall to the state to provide.
For the vast majority of South Africans traditional medicine is the only health system that is both easily accessible and affordable. This is especially so when we consider the grave human resource crisis that besets the public health care system in our country and for which a set of solutions is desperately and urgently required. So traditional health practitioners are very much a part of the solution as far as the provision of health care goes. This Bill will reinforce that.
Secondly, the Bill seeks to provide the patients of traditional health practitioners with protection from mistreatment and malpractice. I am pleased to say that together with my colleagues on the portfolio committee, we managed to amend the draft Bill by making it a requirement that the Traditional Health Practioners’ Council, and I quote:
Publish information regarding the objects and functions of the council, its operations and the rights that any member of the public has under this Act.
Legislation that exists in a vacuum is no good to anyone. It is no use giving citizens the right to lay complaints, unless we also make an effort to inform them of that right and ensure that they are able to exercise it. So the council must find an effective way to publicise its existence and the service it provides to members of the public.
The council must take this requirement very seriously and must not think that it has fulfilled its obligation if it publishes information in the Gazette or some other official publication that has a very limited readership.
Thirdly, by conferring on traditional health practitioners formal status in our law, this Bill reaffirms our constitutional commitment to the promotion of cultural diversity and tolerance of difference. For some it is doubtless a controversial piece of legislation, or at least a strange one. The New York Times - I was astonished to see - devoted a decent-sized article to this Bill before any South African newspaper did, to the best of my knowledge. And it displayed a certain admiration for our ability to, and I quote: “. . . straddle the divide between traditional and empirical medicine(.
The lesson is that respect for cultural and religious practices does not have to involve tolerance of harm and does not require us to close our eyes to rights violations. Equally, a concern for the rights and safety of our people does not demand a rejection of valuable cultural knowledge or practice.
I should add here that the Bill does not seek to regulate the spirit world, as some have suggested. It seeks to regulate the behaviour of human beings and hold those creatures of flesh and blood accountable for their actions irrespective of their motives or inspiration.
Our Constitution is clear that no individual is entitled to harm another on any grounds whatsoever, and the Bill reaffirms that. Having said that, there may be problems to which this piece of legislation does give rise. In particular, some concern has been expressed that traditional health practitioners will give patients leave to take an excessive amount of time off from work, and this would adversely effect our economy. While I can find no convincing evidence that that is likely to occur on any significant scale, if it does, then we would obviously need to consider the implications and make appropriate adjustments to the law.
In conclusion, Madam Chair, I wish to deal with the implications of this legislation for the ongoing campaign against HIV/Aids. The legislation will make it illegal for anyone who is not a registered traditional health practitioner to offer treatment or a cure for Aids - that is as it should be. But from this, it must not be inferred that registered traditional health practitioners are able to offer a cure for Aids. There is as yet no cure for Aids, either traditional or otherwise.
Although the progress of the disease can be slowed by changes to one’s lifestyle and diet, the only effective way in which it is possible to launch a sustained offensive against the virus is through the use of antiretroviral drugs. That is the reason a greater effort must be made to give people living with Aids access to antiretrovirals.
We need a much greater sense of urgency in rolling out the antiretroviral programme, and in this regard we need to set realistic timetables and deadlines to which those who are responsible for implementing the programme can be held accountable. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L V J NGCULU: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We are now at the closure of the first decade of freedom and are poised to enter the second decade. Steadily, as we move towards the future consolidation of our hard- earned freedom, we resolve to reverse the marginalisation of the African people. Their culture and esteem are now strengthened.
This piece of legislation is yet another nail in the coffin of white supremacy. For centuries the practice of traditional health in our country was subject to ridicule and marginalisation. Traditional healers were regarded as wizards and witches, and their practising as paganistic, backward and unhealthy. This happened in spite of the fact that their practising healed and rescued life and limb for centuries before and after colonisation and conquest.
We recall that the Grey Hospital in King William’s Town is named after Sir George Grey, who at some point was a governor of the Cape. The plaque at that hospital states that the hospital was built in order to counteract acts of witchcraft. This means that our practice of traditional healing was regarded as witchcraft. Hence, of course, what the Minister says, that “ . . . inkqubo yethu yamaxhwele namagqirha soloko njalo kubalulekile ukuba ibe nembeko nesidima. Simele ukuba siyazi into yokuba kwantlandlolo, kudala yanyanga abantu.” [It is imperative that our programme of traditional healers and traditional doctors should have respect and dignity at all times. We have to know that since time immemorial it has been healing people.]
We all know that Western education and propaganda have done much to discredit our heritage and culture. We also know that part of the opposition to and marginalisation of traditional medicine and traditional healers had to do with profit. This was a period of systematic destruction of the dignity, knowledge and belief in the efficacy of our traditional methods of prevention and care. It might perhaps be the very same mistake, unwittingly, that is slipping into the mind of hon Ryan Coetzee, who counterpoises the issue of efficacy of antiretrovirals versus traditional healing.
We should not find contradictions in these two practices; they complement each other. Both are important in the overall intervention in the health of our people. These medicines, of course, we all know, are not only used in this country, but perhaps in 80% of our continent and the entirety of the world. They are more available, more affordable and simple to use.
One traditional healer on our continent, Dr J Ngombe, stated that the secret of traditional medicine lies in the proper dosage and its preparation. Hence today we must salute the Department of Health for introducing this very important piece of legislation. We are beginning to give proper meaning to the dignity of the African people.
Of course, it is also important to note that this Bill also aims at ensuring the efficacy, safety and quality of traditional health care services and to provide control over registration, the practice and training of traditional healers.
The Bill also provides for the establishment of the interim traditional practitioners’ council of South Africa, which, among other things, will actually ensure that it promotes public health awareness. It will ensure the equality of health services in the traditional health care arena. It will protect and serve the interests of the public.
The council will also ensure that it issues guidelines concerning the practice of traditional health, make enquiries and conduct investigation into complaints and allegations concerning the conduct of registered practitioners. In other words, the council is designed to serve the interests of the people and also to regulate the linkages between traditional health practitioners and other health practitioners. Once again, there is no contradiction between the two.
It must also ensure that it advises the Minister on the scope, including the health needs of our country. It will also, in consultation with the department, ensure that it determines policy decisions regarding matters relative to educational fees, etc.
The council shall ensure that it is representative in its composition, that traditional health practitioners from each province, medical practitioners, pharmacists, communities and various categories of traditional healers are all represented.
The Bill, therefore, once again restores respect and dignity to a practice that was somehow consigned to the book of history. It brings respect to the African person. We shall ensure that a practice that has saved our lives for many centuries occupies its rightful place in our country.
We are also aware that it is important for us to ensure that in our approach we move away from the Western paradigm of health and that we recognise other paradigms of health that also contribute to the wellness and the health of the people. Also, it is most important to recognise that to be a traditional healer, you need not have formal education.
Uyathwasa; uyabizwa; unazo zonke izinto ze ube ngumkhwetha. Kodwa siyavumelana ukuba kubalulekile ukuba abantu baqhube beyiphucula le nto bayenzayo ukwenzela ukuba abantu bazi ukuba ihamba namaxesha; amaxesha ngamanye. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [You are being traditionally called; you have all these traditional gifts to become a recruit. But we agree that it is crucial that people continue to improve what they are doing so that people know that it goes with the changing times; time has changed.]
The Bill is broad when it relates to disqualification. We run away from the Western approach to education and recognise a number of other approaches. However, it is also most important for us to recognise that everything moves according to time and space, including knowledge. In order for this practice to consolidate its rightful place in South Africa, it must meet today’s challenges.
Ungaba yingcibi kuba usithi wawuyingcibi kwakudala, kodwa kula maxesha siphila kuwo kukho izifo ngezifo. Kubalulekile ke ukuba ube yingcibi ekwaziyo ukulungisa iingxaki ezinjalo . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[You can be an initiation surgeon, because you say you have been one for a long time. But nowadays there are different types of diseases. It is therefore important that you become an initiation surgeon who are able to rectify such problems.]
. . . so that as ingcibi, a traditional surgeon, you are also able to contribute to the avoidance of morbidity, mortality as well as the questions of HIV and Aids. And therefore it is important that knowledge is actually updated.
There is also a provision that actually deals with the question of bogus practitioners in this practice, as well as search of and access to premises. My colleagues from the ANC will contribute further with regard to this aspect, including the transitional arrangements that are actually outlined in the Bill.
It is also important for us all to note that for the first time all traditional healers of our country shall be regulated, hence the need to ensure that the process of registration is not rushed, so that we do not disadvantage a number of our people. As the ANC we salute this seminal piece of legislation most importantly as it comes during the celebration of the Heritage Month, September.
As part of the celebration of our freedom, traditional medicine and practitioners are beginning to be recognised as a critical component in improving the health of our people. We are certain, as proclaimed in the Bill, that the dignity and the integrity of this practice are being restored.
We also remember the song of Vuyisile Mini, which went: “Bhasobha indod’emnyama, Verwoerd(. [Beware the black man, Verwoerd.] We support this Bill. [Applause.]
Dr R RABINOWITZ: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is high time that Western disciples of scientific materialism recognise the vast storehouse of indigenous knowledge at the fingertips of traditional herbalists such as those visiting us today. It is also high time that the thousands of traditional healers, who have influence over the minds and bodies of millions of South Africans, become part of the effort to tackle HIV and TB.
The IFP welcomes the passing of this Bill as a watershed in the provision of health care in our country. We have long called for co-operation between different medical paradigms, so that we can jointly tackle epidemics such as HIV and TB. Western orthodox doctors, homeopaths, ayurvedists, Chinese herbal doctors and traditional practitioners must jointly spread the word that HIV is caused by a virus, spread by sexual intercourse or blood contamination, identified by conventional testing methods, and treated with a vast array of methods including diet, herbs, mental attitude and antiretrovirals.
Myths must be dispelled, such as that sleeping with a virgin combats Aids. But we are concerned that this Bill will add even more contradictions to the irrational mix of control and compete in our health policy. It may also be impossible to implement, become tokenist or make the same mistake as the law regulating alternative health practitioners.
The statutory council includes everyone from beauty therapists to homeopaths with a six-year degree. It has lowered standards of alternative health care and rendered it virtually unaccountable. In this traditional health practitioner’s council would be professionals who use a wide variety of methods and who would range from learned traditional surgeons, birth attendants and herbalists or inyangas, who work transparently with medical doctors to sangomas who combine esoteric practices with sound herbal knowledge.
Trying to regulate these practitioners the same way as doctors are regulated will be well nigh impossible. The Bill reflects this by referring to traditional health practice as a means of diagnosing, treating, and preventing physical and mental illness. But how does one regulate and hold people accountable for diagnoses based on ideologies, beliefs and customs? How does one punish practitioners for improper or disgraceful conduct, or attach evidence to, “books, records, documents or things that relate to the matter under investigation”?
Much that is contentious will come in regulations, such as the following. Will medicines be registered by the MCC? Will traditional health practitioners be entitled to issue medical certificates? Will medicine prices be fixed? Will practitioners be condemned by an ethics committee and lose their licence to practise and cease practising? How will things be evaluated and unprofessional conduct be judged?
Things that members felt could not be identified included concepts such as “uchatho”, which is an enema syringe; “umantindane”, which is the “tokoloshe”; “umhlahlo”, which is divining; “imfene”, which is a baboon riding at night; and “ukugcaba”, which are cut marks. If such things cannot be classified and regulated as permissible implements, substances, and actions, any attempt to regulate them will be impossible.
We propose that in regulation at least a list of outlawed activities be clearly enunciated. The IFP would have liked to narrow the scope of this Bill, clarify its range and use it to improve the communication between traditional practitioners and Western doctors, and to promote documentation and research in traditional medicine.
We have had 10 years in which to register the failure of our health department; to improve communication between Western doctors and homeopaths, instead of encouraging doctors to widen their vision, scope and training; and to share continued professional development points. Practitioners are rigidly divided and discouraged from developing an integrated development approach.
Many patients are financially exploited by ordinary doctors and by traditional health practitioners. And the Bill calls for the council to determine and publish fees that are the norm. The traditional practitioner may be required to return the amount deemed to be in excess. But this price control is legislated at the same time that we have a competition commission commissar, who has slapped a fine of R15 million on the Hospital Association of South Africa for publishing an independent assessment on hospital costs, and fined the Board of Health Care Funders and the Medical Association of South Africa for publishing recommended tariffs which medical schemes should pay providers.
But who then should protect patients from excessive charges? We have fixed medicine prices, fixed pharmacy charges, but leave medical scheme charges to the market. We have free orthodox practitioners, but controlled traditional ones. It is a muddle to say the least. There is little in this legislation that will increase the confidence of practitioners with priceless indigenous knowledge to share their wisdom so that their medicines can be patented, cultivated and be a source of reward for their communities.
The concept of benefit-sharing has not been clarified and remains contentious. The patenting of indigenous knowledge has not been secured and biopiracy is alive and well. And as fewer people remain alive with indigenous knowledge, the race intensifies to capitalise on their wisdom. Clear steps are needed to promote the protection and development of the herbal industry.
Unfortunately we are speeding ahead with genetically modified organism industries, but lagging behind in promoting indigenous knowledge. To its credit, this Bill acknowledges that Western style science-based medicine is not the only means of treating disease, and that disease is not merely due to an assault by bacteria, viruses or parasites, or due to chemical imbalances or mechanical faults. It allows a more holistic view of disease as a lack of balance in a person’s physical, emotional and spiritual realms, and we hope it will produce a lot more research.
In summary, the IFP supports the Bill. The legislation is necessary; it’s moving in the right direction; it’s experimental and it’s ambitious, but it represents the beginning of a learning curve and will require a lot more refining. Thank you.
Nk M N S MANANA: Sihlalo, ngibonga kuNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo namaLungu ahloniphekile ePhalamende ngokuthola leli thuba lokuthi ngiphawule kulo Mthethosivivinywa. Angiqale-ke ngokusho ukuthi ngiyawemukela lo Mthethosivivinywa ngiphinde ngiwesekele futhi.
Sesiside-ke isikhathi abelaphi bendabuko benganikwa indawo yabo, bebukelwa phansi futhi bengahlonishwa umphakathi. Kusukela endulo, abelaphi bendabuko babekhona bengakafiki abaseNtsonalanga. Yibona abakade belapha lapha eNingizimu Afrika kusukela kudala kanti basaqhubeka nakho futhi. Eminyakeni eminingi kade bebukelwa phansi kuthiwa bangabathakathi. Uma ufuna usizo kubo, nawe ububukelwa phansi ubukeke sengathi awuhlakaniphile ngoba ungayi kodokotela besilungu.
UNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo ubazi ukuthi ezempilo zizobe aziphelele uma abelaphi bendabuko bengakabi yingxenye yezempilo. Yingakho ebone kukuhle ukuthi kube khona lo Mthetho ophathelene nabo. Ngithanda ukubonga uNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo ngoba ubonile ukuthi isikhathi sesifikile sokuthi abelaphi bendabuko bahlonishwe, futhi babekwe endaweni efanele njengeyokwelapha. Nabantu abaya kofuna usizo kubo kufuneka bazizwe bekhululekile, bangabukelwa phansi. Ngithanda ukubonga kakhulu kunina belaphi bendabuko ngomsebenzi omuhle kakhulu eniwenzile wokwelapha abantu balapha eNingizimu Afrika, nanjengoba nisaqhubeka nokubelapha. Thokozani bogogo! [Ihlombe.]
Ukwelapha ngamakhambi kudala kusetshenziswa esizweni, kanjalo nokhokho bethu babewasebenzisa. Umsebenzi wabelaphi bendabuko usemqoka kakhulu kanti futhi obabo ubuchwepheshe bujule kakhulu. Inhlangano kaKhongolose ithi isikhathi sokuthi abelaphi bendabuko basebenze ngokomthetho walapha eNingizimu Afrika sesifikile.
Lo Mthethosivivinywa uzokwenza ukuthi kube khona umkhandlu kazwelonke wesikhashana ozohlala iminyaka emithathu, ngokuvumelana noNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo. Lo mkhandlu uzosebenza njengeminye imikhandlu efana neyabahlengikazi, odokotela, neminye efana naleyo.
Inhloso yalo mkhandlu kuzoba ukwazisa umphakathi ngobukhona bawo lo mkhandlu; uzoqinisekisa izinga eliphezulu lokwelapha kubelaphi bendabuko; uzovikela amalungelo omphakathi - okuyiziguli zabo; uzobona ukuthi baluqhubekisa kanjani ulwazi lwabo; uzobuka ukuthi aziphatha kahle yini amalungu awo; kanti futhi uzovikela ukuthi iziguli zingaxhashazwa abelaphi bendabuko.
Umsebenzi walo mkhandlu uzoba yilokhu okulandelayo: uzokwenza uphenyo uma kukhona izikhalo emphakathini; uzovumelana nabelaphi bendabuko ngoluhla olufanele abazosebenza ngalo; uzokwenza imithetho ephathelene nomkhandlu; uzokwazi ukuthenga izinto zomkhandlu ngaphansi kwegama lomkhandlu; uzokweluleka uNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo ngezinto obona ukuthi kufanele umtshele zona; uzokwenza imithetho ephathelene nokusebenza kwabelaphi bendabuko; uzogcina amagama abo bonke abelaphi bendabuko eNingizimu Afrika; wonke umuntu ongumelaphi wendabuko kuzofanele ukuthi abe khona ohlwini ukuze aziwe ukuthi ungumelaphi; uzokwazi ukuqasha izisebenzi ezizosebenzela umkhandlu; uzokwazi ukukhulumisana neminye imikhandlu efana neyodokotela; uzoxhumana noNgqongqoshe ngezinto ezibalulekile eziphathelene nomphakathi; uzogcina izimali zomkhandlu; uzophinda ugcine nezimali ezikhokhwa amalungu akade ekhipha izimfanelo zawo kanye ngonyaka.
Mangisho-ke ukuthi lo mkhandlu uzoma kanjani. Lo mkhandlu uzokwakhiwa abantu abangama-22. Usihlalo uzokhethwa uNgqongqoshe wezeMpilo, iphini lakhe lizokhethwa umkhandlu qobo lwawo. Izifunda ngezifundazwe zona zizoba nomuntu ozimele ongumelaphi wendabuko kodwa ozobe eneminyaka eyisihlanu akuqeqeshelwa ukwelapha. Amanye amalungu amathathu kuzoba ngamalungu omphakathi azobe ebhekele izidingo zomphakathi, kanti futhi sizoba nabanye abaphuma kweminye imikhandlu efana ne-Health Profession Council ne-Pharmacy Council. Kuzoba khona futhi ozobe ephuma eMnyangweni wezeMpilo.
Mangisho-ke futhi ukuthi obani abantu abafanele ukuthi babe kulo mkhandlu: abantu abahlala lapha eNingizimu Afrika; kungenzeka ungabi yilungu lalo mkhandlu uma ungasahlali lapha eNingizimu Afrika noma uma kuthokalakala ukuthi ugula ngengqondo, njengoba kushiwo esigabeni 1 se-Mental Health Care Act wango-2002; uma uziyekela ngokwakho, ufaka isicelo sokuthi ukhululwe, ungayekiswa ukuba yilungu lalo mkhandlu; uma ungaziphathi kahle njengelungu lomkhandlu; kanti futhi uma kungenzeka ushone, uphelelwa ubulungu balo mkhandlu. Kungenzeka kube khona izinto ongazenza ezikwenza ukuthi ungabe usaphumelela ukuba yilungu lalo mkhandlu; uma kwenzeka uhamba lapha eNingizimu Afrika; uma ungasesona isakhamuzi saseNingizimu Afrika; uma ungaboshwa ngaphandle kokuvunyelwa ukuthi ukhiphe inhlawulo; uma usebenza kwezombusazwe; kanti futhi uma uyilungu lePhalamende noma yilungu lephalamende lesifundazwe noma uyilungu lomkhandlu kamasipala.
Lo mkhandlu kufanele uhlangane kabili ngonyaka ngaphandle uma usihlalo esho ukuthi ufuna ukubiza eminye imihlangano. Lo mkhandlu uzoba nesigungu esikhulu esibizwa ngokuthi yi-executive committee ezobheka ukusebenza komkhandlu imihla ngemihla kanti futhi izokwakhiwa ngamalungu ayisishiyagalombili. Kuzoba khona namanye-ke amakomidi afana namakomidi okuqondisa izigwegwe, namakomidi lapho ungacela khona kubhekwe ukuthi isigwebo onikwe sona ngesinobulungiswa yini.
Umkhandlu uzokwazi ukuthi ube nomuntu ozobhalisa bonke labo abakhona ohlwini, esimbiza ngokuthi yi-registrar. Lo nobhala omkhulu nguyena ozokhipha amagama awo wonke umuntu owelaphayo lapha eNingizimu Afrika khona ezoba khona ohlwini, ukuze ukwazi ukusebenza ngokwemvume yalapha eNingizimu Afrika. Lo nobhala omkhulu kuzofanele ukuthi agcine nezimali zomkhandlu ukuze izimali zawo zisebenze kahle. Kuzofanele futhi azi ukuthi kunomthetho kahulumeni obizwa ngokuthi yi-Public Finance Management Act azosebenza ngaphansi kwawo.
Sengigcina-ke ngithanda ukubonga kakhulu abelaphi bendabuko ngomsebenzi omkhulu abawenzile. Siyazi ukuthi abantu, ngaphambi kokuthi bafinyelele kodokotela, baqala kubo abelaphi bendabuko bese bedlulela kodokotela. Kanjalo futhi bayasuka kodokotela babuyele kini, niphinde nibasize. Yilokho- ke esifuna ukuthi kuqhubeke kwenzeke lapha eNingizimu Afrika ukuthi kube khona ukusebenzisana phakathi kodokotela besilungu nabelaphi bakithi bendabuko.
UKhongolose uyawesekela kakhulu lo Mthethosivivinywa. Uthanda futhi nokwazisa nabantu bomphakathi wonke ukuthi abaqale bahloniphe abelaphi bendabuko njengabantu abasebenzela umphakathi kakhulu. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)
[Ms M N S MANANA: Chairperson, I thank the Minister of Health and the hon members of Parliament for this opportunity to say a word on this Bill. Firstly let me state that I accept and support this Bill.
Traditional healers have been looked down upon for a long time. They were not recognised. The public also looked down upon them. Since time immemorial traditional healers have been there – since before the arrival of Western doctors. They are the ones who have carried on treating our people as they have continued up to now. For many years they have been looked down upon and called witches. When seeking their help you subjected yourself to criticism and would be regarded as foolish for not having consulted the Western doctors.
The Minister of Health was aware that the health sector would not be complete without the inclusion of traditional healers. That is the reason why she found it correct to have this Act. I would like to thank the Minister of Health for seeing that the time has come for the traditional healers to be respected and to be placed correctly where they deserve to be. Those who seek their help should feel comfortable and not be looked down upon. I would like thank you traditional healers for the good work you have done in treating South Africans, as you are continuing to do. Be happy, traditional healers! [Applause.]
Traditional healing has long been used in society, and our ancestors used it. The function of traditional healers is crucial and their technology is complex. The African National Congress says that the time has come for the traditional healers to work in terms of the South African Act.
This Bill will create the interim national council for a period of three years in consultation with the Minister of Health. This council will function like the nursing, HPCSA and other similar councils.
The functions of this council will be to inform the public about its existence; to ensure the highest standards of treatment in the traditional sector; to protect community rights - their patients; to further their knowledge; to ensure compliance of members; and to protect patients from abuse by traditional healers.
The functions of this council shall be: to conduct investigations if there are complaints from the community; to reach agreement with traditional healers about their scope of work; to make regulations for the council; to purchase council’s property under the name of the council; to advise the Minister of Health about issues; to pass regulations related to traditional healers; to keep the register of all traditional healers in South Africa - every person who is a traditional healer must be on the register so that one feels that one is a traditional healer; to appoint employees for the council; to consult with other councils like the HPCSA; to consult with the Minister on important community issues; to administer the council’s funds and annual membership funds.
Let me state the composition of the council. The council shall be made up of 22 members. The Minister of Health shall elect a chairperson and the deputy will be elected by the council members. The provinces will be represented by a member who is a traditional healer with five years’experience after qualifying as a traditional healer. The three members will represent the community’s interests. We shall also have members from the Health Profession Council and Pharmacy Council. There will be a member from the Health Department.
Let me state that the persons who are supposed to serve on the council must be citizens of South Africa. It is not possible for one to be a member of the council if one no longer resides in South Africa or if one is found to be mentally ill, as contemplated in Section 1 of the Mental Care Act of
- If one wants to withdraw one’s membership, one submits an application. One’s membership could be cancelled if one misbehaves, and if one dies one loses one’s membership. There are certain types of conduct which can cause one to lose one’s membership: if one leaves South Africa; is no longer a South African citizen; is convicted without the option of paying a fine; is a member of a political party, a member of Parliament, a provincial legislature or local council.
This council shall meet twice a year unless the chairperson wishes to call further meetings. The council shall hold the executive committee responsible for the functioning of the council and shall comprise eight members. There shall be other committees, like the disciplinary committee and reviewing committee, where one can apply for a review of whether a sentence passed was fair.
The council shall have a registrar who shall be responsible for registering all members. The registrar shall keep all names of traditional healers in South Africa so that they function in accordance with the law. The registrar shall be responsible for the administration of the funds of the council for the smooth running of the council. The registrar shall acquaint himself with Public Finance Management Act.
In conclusion, I would like to thank all traditional healers for their good work. We are aware that before people approach doctors they first consult traditional healers. They approach you after consulting doctors, and you help them. It is therefore our intention to create an atmosphere of co- operation between doctors and traditional healers in South Africa.
The African National Congress supports this Bill. We therefore appeal to community members to respect traditional healers as people working tirelessly for the community. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Ms N C NKABINDE: Madam Chair and hon members, the Bill before us seeks to address the legal and regulatory vacuum that has existed since the advent of democracy with regard to traditional health care. The fact is that vast numbers of South African citizens trust and make use of traditional healers. In fact, many would seek the advice of a traditional healer whilst consulting a Western, orthodox health practitioner. This reality places a moral and constitutional responsibility upon government properly to regulate traditional health care.
The benefits of the legal framework created by the Bill fall into two broad categories. Firstly, there are the benefits for the population. A regulated traditional health profession ensures that South Africans can now make use of these health care services with confidence and that poor or dangerous treatment is legally impermissible. The recognition of traditional health care will further enable patients to claim from their medical scheme for their treatment.
Secondly, the Bill will provide benefits for the traditional healers. With legal regulation comes financial security. Traditional healers will now be able to standardise professional and ethical conduct and it will also have those who bring this profession into disrepute disciplined, sanctioned or even removed from the profession.
There are also overall health benefits for the country as a whole. Greater interaction between traditional healers and the rest of the health care profession will hopefully lead to more advanced and comprehensive health care solutions. Already there is a certain level of interaction between traditional healers and the medical research council. Further future collaborations will perhaps uncover new cures or treatments for some of the persistent health challenges facing the country.
The disease burden in South Africa is huge. We can, therefore, simply no longer afford to exclude or dismiss a large group of healers. Consequently the UDM supports this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms R J MASHIGO: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, members . . . le lona dingaka tsa rona ko godimo koo, re a le dumedisa. [. . . as well as our traditional healers up there, we greet you.]
The traditional health practitioners are part of the communities within which they practice, and as a result know and understand the people and the traditions of the communities.
Dingaka tsa rona tsa setso di tswa ga lowe. Go tloga kgale batho ba bantsho ba ne ba etela dingaka tsa rona tsa setso go batla kalafi ya malwetse a mantsintsi a re golang a ntse a le teng. Lebaka la bothapi jwa bophirima, le dingaka tsa rona tsa ditshipi, bo dirile gore dingaka tsa rona tsa setso di se tlhole di tlotliwa; di gatakiwe, di nyadiwe mme mo godimo ga moo di tsewe jaaka e kete ga di itse sepe. Nako dingwe di tsewa jaaka batho ba ba sa felelang sentle.
Mokgatlho wa rona wa ANC, ka lenaneo la ona la Reconstruction and Development, o ikemiseditse gore o lebisise ditshotlo tseo dingaka tsa rona tsa setso di ntseng di tshela mo go tsona. Mme ka lona lenaneo le, o tla dira gore tlotlo e boele mo dingakeng tsa rona tsa setso ka mananeo a a tla beng a dirisiwa gore tlotlo ego e boe. Re ka gakologelwa gore mo poung ya pulo ya Palamente ka Mopresidente, Mopresidente o buile gore: (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)
[Our traditional doctors are from ancient times. Black people have been visiting traditional doctors to seek medical help for various diseases that affected our people. Western influences have caused our doctors to lose respect, to have their rights suppressed, to be undermined, and on top of that, to be regarded as if they know nothing. Sometimes they are regarded as people who are not well mentally.
Our organisation, the ANC, with its Reconstruction and Development Programme, intends to investigate the hardships that our traditional doctors still experience. Through these programmes our traditional doctors will get the necessary respect by implementing programmes that will bring back the respect of traditional doctors. We will remember that at the opening of Parliament, our State President stated that:]
We will continue to do what is necessary to improve the programmes that promote a better health profile of the nation as a whole.
Therefore the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill does exactly that. And in this discussion we will look at the qualifications and the norms and standards of traditional health practitioners and students. “Re tlo simolola ka go lebelela . . .” [Regarding citizenship . . . ] . . . we will start looking. Only South African citizens will be allowed to practise as traditional healers. “Fa re tla mo” [Concerning] . . . age limit . . . “ke gore dingwaga tsa kamogelo mo go thwaseng . . .” [That is admission age into initiation . . . ] . . . the Bill will regulate the age requirements for admission at any registered training institution for traditional healers.
“Bathong, re utlwisiseng gore mo go tla bo go sa dire lefapha la tsa kalafi fela . . .” [We must understand that it will not only be the Department of Health . . . ] . . . that will be looking at the age limits; we will be working in consultation.
Re tla bo re dirisana le Lefapha la Thuto, re dirisana gape le Lefapha la Tlhabololo ya Loago ka gonne re a itse ro rotlhe gore ngwana ke ngwana e bile o tshwanetse kwa sekolong, a kere? Jaaka ka batsadi re tshwanetse gore re bone gore re rotloetsa bana ba rona ka tsela e e tshwanetseng mme fa ba fitlha mo dingwageng tse ba ka yang go thwasa ka tsona, ba ye. Jaanong go tlo tshwanela gore e nne boikarabelo jwa rona setšhaba sotlhe le dingaka tsa rona tsa setso, gore re bone gore re tlotla dingwaga tse ngwana a tshwanetseng gore a amogelwe kwa go thwaseng. Re se ke ra tsoga fela jaaka nna ke le motsadi, ngwana a lala a lela bosigo ke be ke re ngwana yo, o ne a etetswe ke bontatemogolo wa koko wa ntatagwe ba re a ye go thwasa, a nne ngaka. Dilo tse di tshwanang le tseo re tshwanetse gore re di tlhokomele, re bone gore ngwana ke ngwana o tshwanetse go ya go thwasa ka nako e a tshwanetseng go thwasa ka yona. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[We will be working with the Department of Education and the Department of Social Development because we know that children should be in school, is that not so? As parents we should encourage our children in a proper way so that when they reach the proper age they should go to the initiation school. It should be our responsibility as a nation and traditional doctors to ensure that our children go to initiation school at a proper age. We should not just wake up one morning and declare that the child was crying the whole evening because he had been visited by the grandparents of the grandmother of the father who said that he should go to initiation school. We should be careful about these matters and ensure that children go to initiation school at the correct time.]
“Fa tla mo katisong . . .” [Concerning training . . .] . . . we know that students of traditional healing live with their tutors in their houses and during that time they are being observed ”gore e ka nna dingaka na.” [. . . to determine whether they can become traditional healers.]
After a certain period they are assessed and qualify as practitioners. We know that training, so far, is not standardised and “molaotheo wa rona o tla re thusa go lebisisa tseo(. [our Bill will help us to take care of that.]
The knowledge of the availability and influence . . . “ya dingaka tsa setso, le kitso ya dingaka tsa rona tsa setso re ka e lemoga ka ditsela di le dintsi.( [. . . of traditional healers as well as the knowledge of our traditional healers, can be realised in many ways].
“Ka 1978 kwa( [In 1978 at] the Alma Mater Conference the World Health Organisation suggested that traditional healers should spread curative as well as preventative help as part of primary health care.
At Madadeni hospital in KwaZulu-Natal chronic patients receive their regular medicines from traditional healers in their districts rather than tramping to the hospital for their regular medication. These inyangas and sangomas hold regular monthly meetings with the doctors at the hospital. We also know that under the ANC government, the National Department of Health has established a section “go na le lefapha le lengwe mo lefapheng la rona la bosetšhaba la kalafi moo” [a department in our national department of health] where traditional healers have a section as a way of integrating this section into the public health system.
According to the South African Primary Health Care Handbook, traditional healers generally hold positions of respect within the communities and are looked up to for guidance on health matters and other issues important to the people.
Re a itse gore go le go ntsi batho ba leba dingaka tsa setso gore ba ba eletse. Le dingaka tsa rona tsa kgale, pele go tla tsa kwa bophirima, re ne re itse gore dikgosi tsa rona di ne di gakololwa ke dingaka tsa setso. Re ka nopola bo kgosi Shaka le dingaka tse dingwe. Di ne di na le dingaka tsa setso mo gaufi ga tsona gore di ba gakolole gonne di ne di tshepa katiso ya tsona. Ke tla mo go ba tlabeng ba ruta ba e tlabeng e le . . . (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[We know that many people consult traditional doctors for advice. Traditional doctors also advised our kings before Europeans arrived here. King Shaka and others are some who used traditional doctors’ services. They all had traditional doctors nearby so that these doctors could advise them, and they trusted their advice. Traditional tutors who will be . . . ]
. . . qualified persons to teach students at recognised institutions will be regulated according to this Act. They are known to be reputable inyangas . . .
. . . ba ba itseng gore ke dingaka tse di itseng kalafi tota. Ke ka moo e leng bone ba rutang. Ba a tlotliwa mo godimo ga moo ka gonne ke dingaka tse di tshepiwang, tse di filweng marapo a gore e ka nna bafatlhosi ba setso. [. . . who know that these doctors are able to heal. That is why they are the ones teaching. They are respected because they are trusted doctors because they have been given the status of being healers of the nation.]
They use indigenous languages for their training. “Ka tsela eo, tsalano ya bona le baithuti ba bona e dira gore go nne le tikologo e e monate ya thuto.” [Therefore, their relationship with their students creates an environment Molaotlhomo wa rona, mo godimo conducive to education.]
“Molaotlhomo wa rona, mo godimo ga moo” [Our Bill, on top of that] discusses conditions relating to continuing education. Motlotlegi Ngculu o buile gore thuto e tsamaya e ntse e fetoga, a kere? [Hon Ngculu said that education is always changing, is it not so?]
The Bill further discusses these conditions relating to continuing education where the council “e e ntseng e tlhalosiwa ke motlotlegi Manana” [which hon Manana was explaining] will from time to time prescribe conditions relating to education and training to be undergone by persons registered in terms of this Act in order to retain such registration.
The council will also be looking at the nature and extent of continuing education and training to be undergone by persons registered in terms of this Act. Again the criteria for the registration of continuing education and training courses and education institutions offering such courses will also be looked at by the council and from time to time . . . ba tla be ba lelebela gore nare ba santse ba le mo tseleleng e ba ka tsweletsang thuto ka yona. [. . . they will be checking if they are still on the right track of improving education.]
Jaanong re tla mo go . . . [Concerning . . . ] . . . the fees for the services rendered . . . eo e bothata . . . [. . . that is a difficult one . . .] . . . “because we know that fees for services rendered by traditional practitioners, definitely need to be regulated by the Act. Payment . . .״ re a itsi, ka tsela yeo ba sepelago ba patella ka gona ge ba etswa kalafing ye ya dingaka tse tsa rena tsa setso. Ga re tsebe gabotse gore go patelwa bokae, ka gore nako ye nngwe batho ba bao babotsa gore aowa ke go thusitse sepela, ke a leboga, solanka o ka fihla o fola. Ke gore motho yoo, ga a patella selo. E be go sepela, go sepela yo mongwe a be are ke nyaka dikgomo tse ka, go sepele go sepele yo mongwe a re ke nyaka dithousand tse di kaka. Bjalo ka tsela yeo re a bona gore dingaka tsa rona molao o a nyakega gore o kgone go laola gore batho ba ge ba swanetse gore ba tlile go lena gore le ba tuse ka gore re a tseba gore le a thusa, ba tsebe gore ditšhelete tše di sepela bjang. Re tla mo ka tsela yeo dilo di swanetšego gore di bereke ka gona.
[. . . we know that they pay the traditional healers for their services. We do not know exactly how much is paid, because at times they are excused from paying as long as they get well. It means that this service was for free. Some would request cattle as payment and some would request thousands of rands as you proceed. That is why we think there should be an Act to regulate this. People should know how much should be paid for these services. We do acknowledge that you assist them.
We are here for the smooth running of these services.]
Traditional healing is sociocultural. Practitioners should uphold the norms and standards of the communities “ba tshwanetse gore ba itse gore fa ba ya kwa motseng oo, molao wa teng o tsamaya jang.” [They have to know the norms and standards of a village they are visiting.]
As students they should be trained in professional ethics and community norms. We also know that traditional healers use medicines. We should also be interested in seeing . . . [Time expired.]
Ms F BATYI: Hon Chairperson and hon members of the House, “ndibulisa amagqirha ethu.” [I greet our traditional healers].
The current proposed Traditional Health Practitioners Bill will impact quite profoundly on the current health system, to say the least. It will be the first time that the practising of traditional healing will be legally recognised, despite the controversial debates surrounding the issue.
In a country such as South Africa, where the majority of the people have consulted a traditional healer, legalisation of this provision does not need serious consideration. Most rural communities consult traditional healers.
Training, registration and legislation of these healers can only be to the benefit of all South Africans. With registration, the traditional healing practices can be monitored, and those who claim to be healers without any training and accreditation can be stopped from causing any harm.
Quite frankly, South Africa is experiencing a national HIV/Aids crisis, and until there is a cure we need to use all the help we can get, provided the people’s right to good medicine is secured. However, the following issues need serious consideration: resources and infrastructure need to be made available for testing of traditional medicine, instead of continued ignorance and prejudice against traditional healing practices; the issue of traditional surgeons needs to be made clear, as the Bill does provide clarity on this specific issue.
Although the Bill has set some minimum standards for the qualifications of traditional healers, the issue of experience needs to be addressed. Many traditional healers have years of experience, but no formal training. The ID supports the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mnu S J NJIKELANA: Sihlalo nani baPhathiswa namasekela, malungu abekekileyo nani bagula ngokufa okumhlophe, abo bangcwaliswe yimilowa nabakwelemimoya, sithi siyacamagusha. Makube chosi, kube hele! [Uwele-wele.]
UKhongolozi unkqenkqeze phambili ekwakheni lo Mthetho uYilwayo ngenxa yoxanduva awazithwalisa lona, lokukhokela abantu baseMzantsi Afrika ukuya kumpilo-ntle. Unyango lwemveli mandithi ludala kwiAfrika iphela, yaye abantu baphile ngalo kwihlabathi lonke.
Masingalibali ukuba nangona izangoma namaxhwele enegalelo elikhulu elinjalo ekuphiliseni uluntu, akwanefuthe elikhulu eluntwini ngenxa yale misebenzi yawo. Ngokuqinisekileyo, imiqathango yokohlwaya izaphula-mthetho ezivonya-vonyana nempilo yabantu iyafuneka.
Kwezi ntsuku siphila kuzo, imiqathango nemigaqo emakusetyenzwe ngayo empilweni jikelele sele ibunjwe ngendlela echubekileyo engena gingci kwinkqubo kunye nemithetho elawulayo kule mihla. Lo Mthetho uYilwayo uhleli ekhondweni usiphathela iindlela zokohlwaya abaphuma endleleni.
Xa sisamkela futhi sibhabhatiza unyango lwemveli, sibandakanya ukuvuma ukohlwaya izangoma ezonayo. Oko kuthetha ukuba abagula ngokufa okumhlophe baza kukhuseleka kungcikivo nokunyenjwa abakufumana emaphepheni akugwengulayo ukuqokelelwa kweendaba. Ndalatha ikakhulu xa kupaphashwa izinto ezifana nee-muti killings – ngelikaJoji - ngala maphephandaba sinawo kwezi ntsuku.
Xa siwuqaphela, lo Mthetho uYilwayo utyibela ungene nzulu, unabile kunjalonje, xa usiza kweli cala lokohlwaya izaphuli-mthetho neendlela zokuphanda kwa ezi zaphuli-mthetho.
Kukho ibhunga eliza kumiselwa phantsi kwalo Mthetho uYilwayo. Eminye yemisebenzi yalo kukohlwaya abo bonileyo xeshikweni befunyaniswa benetyala. Emasikuqaphele kukuba lo msebenzi wenziwa zizangoma nezanuse ezikweli bhunga, eziza kube zikhethwe kwa zezinye kuzwelonke. Loo nto ke iqinisekisa ukuba umcimbi uza kube uchotshelwe ziingcali eziwaziyo.
Kwalapha kukwaqulethwe iindlela-ndlela zokuchophela nokuphicotha ityala ngalinye elisenkundleni ngendlela eyiyo. Ngokunjalo izohlwayo eziza kungqamana nobukrakra kunye nobunzima betyala nesono ngasinye zikrozisiwe ukwenzela ukuba abo bone kancinane bagwetywe ngendlela eyahlukileyo kwabagcwele ubugulukudu obugqithisileyo.
Lo Mthetho uYilwayo uthi xa kuphandwa abakrokrelwayo ngobuqhetseba makuphandwe ngendlela efanelekileyo. Nditsho ke nokuba kukho izinto ekufuneka ziphengululwe zikhangelwe, zide mhlawumbi zithathwe zibe selugcinweni lwabomthetho. Yonke le ndlela kuza kusetyenzwa ngayo iqanyangelwe yimigaqo ebonisa indlela emakuchankcathwe ngayo ngabo baya kube besenza uphando olo. Mayiqhwatyelwe izandla le nkqubo kuba isekhondweni elibonisa intlonipho yamalungelo abantu kunye namakhaya neendawo abasebenzela kuzo. Yaye asiyithandabuzi into yokuba u-ANC uyixhasa kakhulu le ndawo yokuhlonitshwa kwamalungelo abantu.
Ukubaluleka kwendlela iingxelo zophando emazenziwe ngayo kukwachazwe ngokucacileyo, ikakhulu xa lowo ebephandwa efunyanwa enetyala. Masiqaphele ukuba xa isigwebo sisihla kumoni sukube kunyembelekile, yaye kungasemnandanga. Kungoko kunyanzelekile ukuba indlela ekusetyenzwa ngayo inonotshelwe ukuze kungabikho sikrokro.
Okunye okuqulethwe apha sisagweba esingqamene nemigulukudu namatshijolo azenza amagqirha nezanuse, abe engengawo. Masikhumbule ukuba inde yaye inzima indlela ehanjwa ngabagula kukufa okumhlophe phambi kokuba bavunywe kuthiwe ngamagqirha apheleleyo. [Uwelewele.] Aba batyhutyha-tyhutyha eli lookhokho bexoka besithi bathwasa phi phi phi nakwimilambo esingayaziyo, into abaphela beyenza kukulimazana nabantu, bexuba amayeza abangawaziyo, bangxale abamsulwa ngeetyhefu, bashiye izigede baqengqe ugodo. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mawethu, zidwesha nani zidwangube, masiwugxininise umahluko phakathi kwamagqirha, amaxhwele nezanuse kwelinye icala, kunye nobugqwirha kwelinye. Kwaye mayicace okwekat’ emhlophe ehlungwini ukuba uninzi lwabanyanga ngokwemvelo lunyanisekile yaye luphehlelelwe ngabaleleyo, yaye umthetho luwubambile. Gqwidi ke ngoku zizingcoli zemiguvela ezisebenzisa esi siphiwo ukwenza ubuqhophololo nokungcolileyo.
Kambe ke isimnyama esi sona besisetyenziswa ngabanye bethu ngexesha besizabalaza, ukuba siphephe ukubanjwa nokugqogqwa kwezithuthi ngamapolisa kwiindawo ezithile. [Uwelewele.] Ukuvalelwa ngaphandle kokuvela enkundleni bekungemnandanga, futhi nentelezi wena besingekude kuyo. [Kwahlekwa.]
Xa sifakela imiqathango yokohlwaya kulo Mthetho uYilwayo, ngenye indlela sibuyisa isidima nesithozela esavuthululwa sagonyamelwa ngabo baxobula basixutha ubuntu bethu. Nditsho ndisithi noluntu luza kuba nethemba sisiqinisekiso sokuba asiwamkeli nje amagqirha namaxhwele singabeki miqathango yokuwohlwaya xa onile.
Nditsho mna ke ne-World Health Organisation, kwimizamo yayo yokubuyisela unyango lwemvelo kwisimo sangaphambili, umba wokuhlonipha nemiqathango yokusebenza ngendlela ayiyilibalanga. Oko ke kwandlalela ukuba kwakhiwe imiqathango nemigaqo yokohlwaya. Ngako oko ke liphuma litsolile elithi, kwabo bakrokrayo bengathembanga, makhe bazanezise. Inyathi ibuzwa kwabaphambili. Nantsi i-World Health Organisation, mayibuzwe.
Ezi zohlwayo nemigaqo idweliswe kulo Mthetho uYilwayo ibukeka ngakumbi xa ichankcatha phezu kovulindlela wokuba makuphandwe kuqala. Gqirha, sanuse nexhwele elikrokrelwayo kunyanzelekile ukuba liphandwe kuqala futhi ngendlela efanelekileyo enganukunezi sidima samntu. Iingcali ezingooPotter noo-Ogden zithi nangona imithetho yokuziphatha ineengcambu ezondele kwiimbali zoluntu, iye yaguquka kuba amaxesha nawo ayahamba, kutsho kucace ukuba nathi masimamele amaxesha esiphila kuwo.
Lo Mthetho uYilwayo unika nothathatha walapha eMzantsi Afrika ilungelo lokufaka isikhalazo kweli bhunga liza kumiselwa xa lo mthetho sele usebenza. Phofu ke, nabo abagula yingulo emhlophe baza kube bekhuselekile xa kufakwa ezi zikhalazo kuba ityala liza kubekwa enkundleni xa liphandiwe kwaza kweziwa nobungqina ngendlela efanelekileyo. Apho ke asihanahanisi, kuba siqinisekisa ekuhlonipheni amalungelo abantu, nto leyo uKhongolozi norhulumente amkhokelayo ayimele ngolona hlobo.
Yintoni esiza kuyizuza kulo Mthetho uYilwayo? Ngokuqinisekileyo akusobe kuphinde kuthiwe abanyanga ngokwemveli baza kwenza utyhatyhiwe bangohlwaywa. Apha kuzanywa ngeyona ndlela ukuqinisekisa ukuba iinkonzo zonyango lwemveli ziqhutywa ngendlela efanelekileyo nekhuselekileyo, kambe ekwachubeke ngolona hlobo.
Unyango lwesiNtu lude lwabe luze kuphehlelewa nasePalamente, nto ke leyo iqinisekisa kwanabo bangaqondiyo, abakrokrayo kwa nabo banyembayo. UKhongolozi wayidandalazisa phandle kwangonyaka ka-1994 injongo yakhe yokuba abone amagqirha, amaxhwele nezanuse zamkelwe ngokwasemthethweni yaye zibe yinxalenye yeenkonzo zempilo jikelele.
Apha ke sibandakanya nabo bajongene namasiko nabafunde benezinwe zokuzalisa emakhaya, ukubelekisa ke ngamanye amagama. Kambe ke, sisanyuka induli kuba kaloku inkxaso yoluntu ifuneka nangaphezulu, ngakumbi xa lo mthetho sele usebenza.
Torhwana mnye umba, kukuba unyango lwemveli luchankcatha phezu kwamasiko nezithethe zesiNtu, nto ke leyo eza kukhe ibe namagingxigingxi kwiinkqubo zikarhulumente zale mihla, isi-modern ngamanye amagama.
Sihlalo nani bakowethu ndivala ngelithi umntu ngamnye kweli lookhokho bethu unoxanduva nomsebenzi omkhulu wokuqinisekisa ukuba xa sele ugqityiwe ukuqulunqwa lo mthetho, sele usebenza, mawungathintelwa ukuze unike iinkonzo zonyango lwemveli indawo yalo efanelekileyo kwisizwe sethu siphela.
Namhlanje siyavuya ukubona nabamhlophe abanokugula okumhlophe bekunye nathi, ukwenzela ukuba siqinisekise nakwilizwe lonke ukuba la ma-300 000 yabo ekufanele ukuba azibandakanye nathi ekunyangeni abantu aza kube ekunye nathi ngenxa yalo mthetho. Makudede ubumnyama kuvele ukukhanya!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Camagu!
Mnu S J NJIKELANA: Sicamagusha kwabakwelemimoya!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Camagu!
Mnu S J NJIKELANA: Makube chosi, kube hele! Enkosi, Sihlalo. Kwaqhwatywa.
[Mr S J NJIKELANA: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputies, hon members and you who have the traditional calling, those who are solemnized by the forefathers and the ancestors, we say we hail thee. Let there be peace, and prosperity! [Interjections.]
The ANC is leading in the formulation of this Bill, as a result of its commitment of leading the people of South Africa to better health. The traditional method of healing was in existence in the whole of Africa long ago, and is used worldwide to cure people.
Let us not forget that as much as sangomas and traditional healers make a great contribution to healing people, they also have a great influence on the community due to their work. Certainly, we do need stringent conditions of punishing those criminals who mess up people’s health.
These days we are living in, rules and conditions of practice governing the health sector in general has been formed in a civilized manner which fits in well in the programme and regulations of these days. This Bill is on the right track; it gives us ways of dealing with those who do not conform.
When we accept that we approve of traditional healing, we should at the same time acknowledge punishment to the sangomas who are transgressing. This means that those who have the traditional calling will be protected from the ill treatment and the rebuke they receive from the newspapers, which vaguely collect news about their practice. I am referring especially to when the newspapers we have these days publish things like, “the muti killings,” in English.
When we look at this Bill, we see that it is very intensive and broad when it comes to punishing the transgressors and ways of investigating them.
A council is going to be formed under this Bill. One of its duties is to punish those who have transgressed when they are found guilty. What we should know is that this duty is going to be performed by sangomas and fortune-tellers in this council who will be elected nationally by others. This ensures that this matter is in the hands of experts who knows it very well.
It also contains different ways of presiding over and trying each case before the court in a proper way. At the same time, punishments are going to be in line with the seriousness and gravity of each case and each transgression as stipulated, so that those who commit less serious transgressions should be sentenced differently from those who are full of corruption. This Bill states that when those suspected of fraud are investigated the investigation should be proper. I mean even if some things have to be searched, and maybe confiscated by the police. The procedure to be followed by those conducting the investigation is emphasised in the rules of procedure.
Let us clap our hands for this procedure as it is in line with showing respect for people’s rights, their homes and their places of practice. And we do not doubt that the ANC is fully supporting the respect of human rights.
The importance of how the investigation reports are to be formulated is explained clearly, especially when the one who was being investigated is convicted. We should note that when the transgressor is being sentenced it is because there is no other choice, and it is not nice. That is why it is compulsory that the procedures should be followed carefully so that there should be no uncertainty.
Encompassed in here is the sentence that deals directly with criminals and nonentities who pretend to be traditional healers and traditional doctors, whilst they are not. Let us recall that people who have the traditional calling go a long way that is very difficult before they get ordained as fully fledged traditional practitioners. [Applause.] Those who go all over our forefathers’ land claiming that they heeded the traditional call at very far unknown rivers, end up hurting people by mixing medicines they do not even know, and by forcing innocent people to drink this poison, they leave people hurt and injured and others dead. [Applause.]
Compatriots and hon members, let us emphasise the difference between traditional doctors and traditional healers on the one side, and witchcraft on the other. And let it be crystal clear that the majority of those who heal traditionally are honest and blessed by the forefathers, and that they stick to the rule. Suddenly now there are evil criminals who misuse this good talent in doing their fraudulent, dirty tricks.
In actual fact the isimnyama (camouflage medicine) was used by some of us during the time of our struggle, to avoid being arrested and raided by the police on vehicles at certain places. [Interjections.] Detention without trial was not a nice thing, and the use of intelezi (battlefield medicine) was just handy. [Laughter.] When we include conditions of punishment in this Bill, we are bringing back the dignity which was violently taken away by those who regarded our humanity with no respect. I mean even the community will have trust and confidence in the assurance that we do not only accept traditional doctors and traditional healers without conditions of punishment when they transgress.
I mean even the World Health Organisation in its attempts to bring back the traditional way of healing to its original form, regard the issue of respect and conditions of proper practice as important. This paves the way for formulating conditions and procedures of punishment. Therefore it is clearly stated that those who have doubts and mistrust others, let them satisfy themselves. If you do not know, you should ask those with experience. Here is the World Health Organisation, it can be asked.
The rules and punishment as stipulated in this Bill become more interesting when they are based on investigation, as a point of departure. Traditional doctors and traditional healers who are suspected have to be investigated first, and that must be done without undermining anybody’s dignity. The experts, Potter, Ogden and others say, as much as the foundation of the rules of self-independency is based on human history, it has changed due to the changing times; it becomes clear then, that we have to adapt to the times we are living in.
This Bill gives everybody in South Africa the right to lodge a complaint with the council, which is going to be established when this law is in operation. In fact, even those who have the traditional calling would be protected when a complaint has been lodged, because the case would only go to court after it has been investigated and evidence has been produced in a proper way. We are just bluffing about that, because we are very strict regarding human rights, which is what the ANC and the ANC-led government are good custodians of.
What are we going to benefit from this Bill? Certainly, the traditional healers will never again do as they please without being punished. Here we are trying our best to make sure that traditional services are performed in a proper, safe and most civilized way.
Traditional healing has been accepted by Parliament, something which assures even those who do not understand, those who doubt, and those who criticise. The ANC voiced it even in 1994 that its aim is to see traditional doctors and traditional healers legally accepted as part of the health services throughout. Here we also include those in their line of practice who deal with tradition, who due to their experience have gained the skills of mid-wives. There is still a lot to be done, and the community support is needed more especially when this Act comes into operation.
There is only one issue, and that is that traditional healing should be based on traditions and customs, something which will have hiccups in government’s modern programme.
Chairperson, brothers and sisters, let me conclude by saying that every one of us in this land of our forefathers, have the responsibility and the daunting task of ensuring that, after the Act is formulated and is in operation, it should not be blocked so that it gives our traditional healing services its rightful place in the nation in its totality.
Today we are happy to see that even white people need the traditional call with us, so that we ensure even to the whole world that the 300 000 who are supposed to associate themselves with us in healing people, they would be with us due to this Act. Let the darkness vanish, let there be light!
HON MEMBERS: Thank you!
Mr S J NJIKELANA: We thank the ancestors!
HON MEMBERS: Thank you!
Mr S J NJIKELANA: Let there be peace and prosperity! [Applause.]]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the ACDP recognises the need for the regulation of the traditional health sector and supports efforts to research and develop sound and ethical natural health solutions. Attempts to bring African indigenous knowledge into the mainstream are commendable and necessary to ensure that this body of knowledge is not lost simply because it is not adequately researched, recorded and codified.
A council of 22 members will exist for the purpose of ensuring standard ethical conduct for practising traditional health. The Bill, however, does not specify the minimum requirements, training or standards for recognition as a traditional health practitioner, although it is clear that those not registered in terms of the Act will not be able to practise.
Previously, educational requirements weren’t necessary when a person was called to practise traditional medicine, and when a traditional healer graduated no certificate was issued, yet proof of qualifications on registration will now be required. How these and other issues will be worked out is rather unclear and cause for some concern.
Since 1997 the Medical Research Council and others have been working on a traditional medicines database with a view to setting safety standards for herbal remedies. This is encouraging. There is still a long way to go, however, if the WHO concerns are to be allayed and criteria to support worldwide use are to be met.
The protection of protected or endangered plants and animals is another area of concern, which the Bill does not address, and nature reserves are vulnerable as unlimited amounts of protected species are used with apparent immunity. Regulation of this industry constitutes an enormous challenge for the Department of Health and medical aids will face tremendous difficulties, but patients will be able to access medical treatment of their own choosing with a greater chance of being protected from charlatans.
In the interests of consumer protection, however, the ACDP is unable to unconditionally support this Bill and will therefore abstain. We share concerns that the Bill is premature in many aspects and we urge you, hon Minister, to ensure that critical issues are attended to in order to avoid potential problems. We are of the opinion that further broad consultation will be necessary in order to honestly serve the best interests of the public. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr B E PULE: Madam Chair, allow me to congratulate the Department of Health on the mere recognition that traditional health practitioners have a role to play in our health system. For quite a number of years traditional health practitioners were relegated to an insignificant role. It is an irrefutable fact that without recognition and control of their practices, it would undoubtedly spell a national calamity, as health is the business of the nation.
Like all other professions, their council will be in a position to regulate the extent to which they operate, ensuring that traditional health practice complies with universally accepted health care norms and values. This would really be a milestone in the history of the traditional health system. There are so many diseases that liaison between traditional health practitioners and other health professionals registered under different laws has to be promoted.
Rona re le UCDP molao o, re o nesetsa pula ka gore o tla thusa mo mabakeng a le mantsi jaaka maloba go ne go fetisiwa molawana wa gore motho yo o ratang go ntsha mpa a ka e ntsha. Jalo re itumelela gore le fa re ne re ganana le molao o, go tla nna le thuto ya gore batho ba ba batlang go dira jalo ba rutwe gore fa o bolaya ngwana o kgone go somarela mmaagwe. Jalo UCDP e tshegetsa molao o. [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[We, as the UCDP, support this Bill because it will assist in many instances, like when the Abortion Bill was passed. So, we are pleased that even though we were against this Bill, there will be lessons for the people who want to practise that and in order to do that, they will be taught that to kill the baby you must be able to spare the life of the mother. So, the UCDP supports this Bill. [Applause.]]
Mr N T GODI: Deputy Chairperson and hon members, the PAC joins the progressives and enlightened in supporting this Bill, and the Minister of Health for her bold and farsighted leadership in this regard. This Bill, coming ten years into the democratic breakthrough, gives meaning to the consolidation of the national democratic revolution. Colonialists did not only oppress and exploit the African people, but sought to denigrate and wipe out the history and cultural practices of the African people.
Everything European was supposed to be godly, and all things African were regarded as devilish. It was in this context, therefore, that traditional healing, practitioners and medicines were denigrated. Owing to the cultural resilience of our people, the practice of traditional healing has remained a practice of choice to millions of our people.
The PAC sees the Bill as a restoration and a reaffirmation of our humanity. The mainstreaming of traditional health practitioners will go a long way in removing the colonial stigma that the majority of our people have ignored. We do, however, accept that there will be challenges in a number of areas in terms of configuration and maintenance of norms and standards in the conventional sense. But these should be seen within the broader picture.
With the enthusiastic assistance of the traditional leaders themselves, it should be easier for the department to realise the objectives of the Bill. It is indeed a great day today, as we roll back one of the legacies of colonialism. The PAC supports the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Deputy Chair. Indigenous South Africans have for years depended on traditional healers to manage their health. The Minority Front respects this, but agrees with the World Health Organisation on the quality and the quantity of the medicines dispensed. We further note that there are approximately 200 000 traditional health practitioners in South Africa and that a large majority of people in the rural areas frequently consult such practitioners.
This sector needs to be managed, monitored and regulated by legislation. We are grateful for the research compiled by the various parties concerned in establishing the traditional medicines database, Tramed. This will certainly contribute towards maintaining the safety standards of herbal remedies. Who knows what the study of plants and their healing properties could reveal - perhaps even the cure to HIV/Aids or other epidemics. The Minority Front supports the Bill in its efforts to ensure that South Africans, who consult traditional practitioners, receive safe and adequate medicines.
The Bill further promotes the proliferation of traditional practitioners through research, education and training in the field concerned. Ensuring that measures are put in place to control the registration, training, and practice of traditional health practitioners would further ensure that our citizenry is obtaining efficient and safe assistance.
The Minority Front is, however, concerned as to how this legislation will be implemented effectively and whether the traditional health practitioners will be receptive to such legislation. The MF seeks a healthy South Africa and thereby supports the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Setjhaba, theang tsebe le mmamele. Ntokolleng ke roke mmuso wa tokoloho. Ke thoholetse dingaka tsa setso, ke bine mabinabine a pelo ya ka. Maobeng, re ne re sa rere mmoho, hona maobeng, re ne re sa etse dintho ka mmoho, empa kajeno, yena Mbeki, o fetotse mawa. A hlokomela seabo sa dingaka tsa setso, a ba lokolla. Banna le basadi, hetlang morao le bone dingaka tsa setso nakong ya kgatello. Maswabi difahlehong tsa bona ese ho iphapanya.
Tjhe, ntho di fetohile. Banna le basadi bophelo ke ntlola-ntlole, e, ke masiyasiyane mahlokalebelo, feela a re utlwa Tlatlamatjholo a re romella boetapele ba ANC, botle ntho ke ho kgotswa. Kajeno ke bua ka baetapele ba nang le lentswe, mmuso wa ba neha sebaka, tjhaba sa nyakalla. Sa nyakalla sa bina thoko sa re “le rona re lokolohile,” [Ditlatse.] “Re bina tokoloho ka motlotlo, re a thwenya, re a tantsa hle. Re re pele ya pele!”
Mmuso ke rona, mme he ha re ikotleng difuba. Dingaka tsa setso, phuthullang difahleho tsa lona, le eme ka motlotlo le re “Viva demokerasi, Viva ANC!” (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)
[Nation, listen carefully. Allow me to praise the democratic government, to congratulate the traditional doctors and sing praises from my heart. In the past, we were not planning together. Still in the past, we were not doing things together, but today, Mbeki himself changed plans. He recognised the role of traditional doctors and freed them. Ladies and gentlemen, look back and see traditional doctors during the time of oppression. There was sadness on their faces.
Well, things have changed. Ladies and gentlemen, life is full of problems. Yes, it is the survival of the fittest, but God heard us and sent us the leadership of the ANC - what a wonderful thing! Today I talk about the leadership that has a voice; the government gave them a chance and the nation rejoiced. It rejoiced and sang praises and said, “We, too, have been freed”. [Applause.] “We sing freedom with pride, we hop and dance. We say forward ever!”
We are the government, so let us be proud of ourselves. Traditional doctors, remove sadness from your faces, stand up with pride and say, “Viva democracy, Viva ANC”!]
Madam Deputy Chair, today we debate a very important piece of legislation for our people. We are resuscitating confidence in the historically known herbal remedies and cures. Our traditional health practitioners from today
- hey madoda from namhlanje [Laughter.] - will be able to claim payment from any person who has a medical aid card according to the provisions of the Medical Schemes Act.
Now, Minister, it is going to be very difficult indeed, because I am tempted to join that gang over there. [Laughter.] I want to join you, because you are going to treat even people like myself. I have a medical aid card, so I am going to be one of your clients very soon.
Never again will you see educated people like myself going to see those people during the night. [Laughter.] I will now go during the day, because they will be registered. [Applause.] People who pose as registered traditional health practitioners will be found guilty if they make false entries in the register, or obtain certificates by false means. They will be found guilty if they make unauthorised entries in, or alterations to, a register. They will be punished if they destroy, damage or render illegible any entry in the register, without the permission of the holder thereof. Any holder of an issued certificate will be found guilty if he or she forges a certificate.
For the investigation of matters relating to teaching and training, only a person authorised by the council in writing is allowed to enter any institution or premises utilised for these purposes. Any person who prevents an authorised person from entering such institutions or premises is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine, imprisonment or both.
Like any other council, this council will also have rules to govern its affairs in terms of their business conduct, procedures followed during meetings, how contracts must be entered into, how accounts of the council must be kept, and on how to dispose of moneys accrued. They must also have rules on how allowances may be paid to members, and rules on duties and conditions of services of the registrar and other officers who will be appointed. They must have rules on how various registers are kept, how certificates are issued, and any other matter that may be promulgated under this Act.
A person who is not a registered traditional health practitioner will be found guilty if he or she practises as a traditional health practitioner for gain, physically examines a person, diagnoses or treats any person, prescribes or provides traditional medicine, pretends to be a traditional health practitioner and diagnoses, treats or offers to treat or cure cancer or HIV/Aids. For the first time, our traditional health practitioners will now be asked to pay an annual fee.
“Nizakubhatala ke ngoku kudala siniyekile nisebenza ningabhatali Nizakubhatala.” [You are going to pay now since we have given you a chance for a long time to work without paying. You are going to pay.]
. . . because the Minister will have to prescribe, on the recommendation of the council, the amount that you will have to pay annually. Anybody who fails or refuses to pay this annual fee “siyanivalela etrongweni.” [will be put in jail]. [Time expired.]
LINGQONGQOSHE WEZEMPILO: Kunzima ukulandela uMaDumisa kodwa njengoba nimbona eqhuga nje usethembele kinina ukuthi nizomnyanga onyaweni lwakhe. Angibonge-ke amalungu ahlonophekile ePhalamende ngokuxhasa nokusekela lo Mthethosivivinyo. Ngithokoza kakhulu futhi ukuthi ngibona sengathi siyavumelana sonke noma kukhona nje abanye abagxekagxekayo kodwa sisho ngazwi linye ukuthi kufanele sibuyisele amasiko ethu nobuntu bethu.
Ucishe asidide-ke u-Coetzee uma eseqala ukufaka oma-retrovirals esesho nokuthi kufanele kuphenywe ukuthi senzenjani ngawo. Lo Mthethosivivinyo awungawo ama-retrovirals kodwa ungokubuyisa isidima nobuntu bethu … (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER OF HEALTH: It is difficult to follow MaDumisa and as she is limping she hopes that you will treat her leg. Let me thank the hon members for supporting this Bill. I am also very happy to see that we seem to be agreeing that it is important to restore the dignity of our culture and reaffirm our Africanness.
Mr Coetzee confuses us then when he speaks about antiretrovirals, saying that there should be an investigation as to what we are doing about them. This Bill is not about antiretrovirals, but about the restoration of our dignity and Africanness . . . ] . . . our uniqueness as Africans.
Uphinde waphawula-ke engasakhulumi ngendlela esibhekelela ngayo ingculazi – sizomcela futhi ayofunda i-comprehensive plan on HIV/Aids – yokuthi sikhuluma ngokudla okunomsoco, ukuziphatha nangazo zonke izinto ezinjalo. Kufanele afunde uMthethosisekelo, angalokhu ezoma lapha phambi kwethu evikela amaphakethe ongxiwankulu. Asimele ukuzokhuluma ngalokho namhlanje, siyophinde siyixoxe leyo.
Uphinde waba nokungabangabaza futhi ngokuthi mhlawumbe kukhona abanye abazosebenzisa lo Mthethosivivinyo ukutshela abantu ukuthi bangayi emsebenzini ngoba begula. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[He made yet another remark, but this time it was not in relation to the way in which we fight HIV/Aids. I request him to go and study the comprehensive plan on HIV/Aids where we discuss things like nutritional food, good behaviour and so on. He must read the Constitution, and should stop coming here to defend the capitalist interest. We are not here today to debate that, therefore let us close that issue; we will discuss it next time.
He also expressed uncertainty in that some people will abuse this Bill by encouraging other people not to go to work and then to claim to have been sick.]
I think I just need to point out that the conditions of service are covered under the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. These conditions do not change arbitrarily. Therefore, there are only a certain number of days that can be taken for sick leave, and it will apply to the traditional healers also.
If you have exhausted the amount of sick leave days to be taken, you will have to take unpaid leave or vacation leave. Therefore, whether a traditional practitioner or a doctor writes false medical certificates to grant extra leave, this makes no difference, as leave is kept in this country. [Applause.] In addition, managers and supervisors can pick up on occasions when leave is being abused. This is how it was picked up that doctors had abused the granting of sick certificates to some patients. It is not only going to be particular to them. This is why we have this regulation.
U-Rabinowitz naye ufuna ukusidida. Uzobuza imibuzo ebivele iphendulwa nasekomidini, uzosidida nje ngeminye ngemibuzo futhi uyazi ukuthi kuMthethosivivinyo awukwazi ukufaka yonke imininingwane. Imininingwane uyifaka uma ngabe usuwenza ama-regulations naye uyakwazi lokho. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[The hon Rabinowitz also wants to confuse us. She is asking questions that have been answered in the committee; she confuses us with additional questions and yet she knows very well that it is impossible to put all the details in a Bill. You only include everything when you are making the regulations, and she knows that too.]
I do not think that she should take traditional medicine and try to fit it into a Western medicine box. It will not work. So, do not try to do so. Do not try to ask a lot of questions that just tend to confuse the issues, because you are using an allopathic model that we are not using in this regard. I have stated that this legislation is the first of its kind, and it is innovative. In a similar way, that is how we will deal with regulations, and the implementations thereof.
Umama u-Batyi naye uke wathi ukudideka kancane. Naye kuzofanele simchasisele kahle ukuthi mhlawumbe akawufundanga kahle lo Mthethosivivinyo. Ngimyalele-ke esigabeni 46, 1(f) . . . I think Mama Batyi is also a bit confused. We also need to explain to her that she did not read the Bill thoroughly. I refer her to section 46,1(f), which empowers the Minister, in consultation with the council, to make regulations relating, inter alia, to registration of categories of practitioners including traditional surgeons.
“Ngakho ungakhathazeki mntakwetu ngabelaphi bendabuko, nabo sizobalawula.” [Therefore do not worry my friend, these traditional healers are also subject to regulation.]
Let me just end off by saying . . . ngithokoze kakhulu ukuthi sixoxisane ngomoya opholile futhi singaxabani ngoba nento esiyixoxa namhlanje iyinqayizivele, ikakhulukazi lapha eNingizimu Afrika ayikaze ibe khona. Ngenye indlela senza into ebalulekile. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[I was very happy that what we discussed today was discussed in very good spirit. We did not quarrel because what we are discussing here is very rare, particularly in South Africa as it has never existed. In other words, we are doing something that is important.]
We are beginning, in part, to address some aspects of the second economy in this country. We are doing the same also, with the envisaged health charter in this country. I just want to say, once more, that this is a restoration and a reaffirmation of our dignity and our Africaness. I think this is a great day, a historic day for South Africa, and we must say: “Halala, ANC, halala!” [Applause.] Thank you.
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time (African Christian Democratic Party abstaining).
BEIJING PLUS 10: AN EVALUATION FROM A PARLIAMENTARY PERSPECTIVE
(Subject for Discussion)
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I want to start off by thanking the Speaker for allowing this debate to take place today, as we prepare for a debate with 146 other parliaments at the beginning of October 2004.
Our democracy was one year old when a very able and committed leader headed a South African delegation to Beijing. This hon member is a shining star. She has proved to the world that women, given an opportunity, can move mountains and cross oceans with ease. That hon member is the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Today, she and many other South African leaders look back with pride to that historic occasion. Not only did we promise the world to change the status of women in South Africa, but we excelled. Before 1994 South Africa was one of the worst and backward countries in relation to gender-related issues. Today we are number 12 in the world and countries like the United States and the United Kingdom are way down the line.
The Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action emanated from the Fourth World Conference on Women, held in Beijing in September 1995. The Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action provides the agenda to empower women and aims to remove all obstacles to women in all spheres of public and private life. It recognises that many women face barriers such as race, language, ethnicity, culture, religion, disability or socioeconomic class that prevent them from enjoying basic human rights. It identifies 12 critical areas of concern, that is, areas of particular urgency that stand out as priorities for action. These are poverty, education and training, health, violence against women, armed conflict, the economy, power and decision-making, institutional mechanisms, human rights, the media, the environment and the girl-child.
In order to empower women in these critical areas, governments and parliaments are required to undertake various actions to ensure that women have equal access to, and full participation in, power structures and decision-making. In June 2000 a special session of the General Assembly reviewed the implementation of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action and we called that Beijing+5. In the outcome document they adopted, governments pledged to review domestic legislation with a view to striving to remove discriminatory provisions as soon as possible, preferably by 2005.
The year 2005 is an important milestone for international women’s rights as it marks the 10th anniversary of the 1995 Fourth World Conference on Women where the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action was adopted. The 10- year international review and appraisal of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action will take place at the 49th session of the Commission on the Status of Women in March 2005.
In addition to reviewing the implementation of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action, the commission will also discuss current challenges and forward-looking strategies for the advancement and empowerment of women and the girl-child. After the Beijing conference many African governments, including the South African government, declared their support for the implementation of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action, and developed national action plans to give effect to their commitment.
These action plans outlined governmental priorities in implementing the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action as well as the proposed methods and institutional frameworks within which the state objectives were to be met. In 2000 the government of South Africa adopted the National Policy Framework for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equality.
Freedom cannot be achieved unless women have been emancipated from all forms of oppression. That is what we said when we came here in 1994, and that is what we are still consistently saying. All of us must take this on board and the fact that the objectives of the Reconstruction and Development Programme will not have been realised unless we see, in visible and practical terms, that the conditions of the women of our country are radically changed for the better and that they have been empowered to intervene in all aspects of life as equals with any other member of society.
Ke itumelela thata gore fa re bua ka selo se sa Beijing, re bua le ka mokgwa o se tshwanetseng gore se thuse bogolosegolo bomme, re bua ka sona gompieno re na le lona bomme ba dingaka tsa rona le fa le setse le tsamaya. Re na le lona gompieno, re itumela le lona gore le lona le tla tshwana le batho. Le mo utlwile Tona gore o rileng, le mo utlwile mme Madumise gore o rileng. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[I am very happy when we talk about Beijing. We talk about the way this is supposed to help, especially women who are traditional healers - even though you are now leaving. We are with you today; we are happy that you will be recognised just like any other person. You heard what the Minister said; you heard what Ms Madumise said.]
South Africa’s commitment to human rights is embedded in our Constitution. Human rights are considered to include women’s rights. They also include the sexual and reproductive rights of women, men and young people.
I would like to conclude - and I will give the rest of my speech to Hansard
- but I just want to say that it helps us to discuss topics that are going to be discussed at an international conference so that we can hear the views of South Africans, and that when people speak, they can actually say we have heard “ukuthi uMaMkhize yena uyibona kanjani le ndaba.” [what an ordinary woman’s views are on this matter.]
This is what we have started to do. We have asked the presiding officers please to table all the topics so that when people go to international conferences they go well prepared. One of the things that will be discussed at the Inter-Parliamentary Union conference in Geneva next month will be the Beijing+10 from a parliamentary perspective. We are actually readying ourselves for that conference. The other two topics have been dealt with in the National Assembly and the NCOP.
We want to thank the Whips very much for allowing us to keep on bringing on board these topics for discussion so that that sharpens our participation at international forums.
I think my time has expired now. I can just see the Table staff looking at me and I think, as one who presides there, I should actually set a very good example and end now. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): Deputy Speaker, we noted that you didn’t finish your speech. I am sure that if you copied it and circulated it among parties they would have the benefit of the rest of your speech. Thank you.
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Chairperson, the World Conference on Women held in Beijing, China, in September 1995, was the fourth in a series of World Conferences on Women - all organised under the auspices of the United Nations. The then UN Secretary-General, Mr Butros Butros Gali, noted that the commitments made at that conference were not only as a result of diplomatic negotiations, but that behind them lay the strong and organised power of the World Women’s Movement. He affirmed that the UN regarded itself as a staunch ally of the Women’s Movement, and that to achieve the goal of full equality of men and women, as stated in the UN Charter, the UN had always worked with the Women’s Movement.
It is worth recalling that the Secretary-General of the Beijing Conference, in which 189 countries participated and endorsed the Beijing Platform for Action, was the current President of the Pan-African Parliament, Mrs Gertrude Mongella. She is presently in our country to prepare for the coming session of the Pan-African Parliament. I am sure we all welcome her.
The South African delegation to Beijing was led by the hon Minister, as already mentioned by the Deputy Speaker. Thousands of NGOs and other international bodies participated in the conference. At this conference the South African government committed itself to the Beijing Platform of Action, which called on governments to take action on 12 critical areas of concern. These are listed in the Beijing Platform of Action, and I will be referring to some of them in my speech.
Governments, the international communities, civil society - including the NGOs - as well as the private sector are all encouraged fully to commit themselves to take strategic action in the 12 areas that have been identified. By April 2000, that is five years after the conference, 119 member states, which is 63%, had submitted their national plans of action. The South African government is one of them, and is just expected to report on its progress on the 12 critical areas.
South Africa’s first progress report, the Beijing Platform of Action 2000, has since been submitted. One of the critical areas identified is women and poverty. The commitment of the ANC-led government in this area is very well known. Its antipoverty strategy includes two components, namely, meeting the basic needs and developing human resources, a strategy that has enabled the department to shift from a purely welfare approach to a developmental approach, thus responding to the challenges of the people’s contract.
An extensive study on poverty, involving consultations with stakeholders, has resulted in the formation of partnerships between civil society and the government, leading to the establishment of a poverty fund. Service delivery road shows have been organised by all spheres of government to promote the principle of Batho Pele. The integrated primary school nutrition programme addresses poverty that afflicts families and thus affects child development. The child support grant is progressively being extended to reach more and more children living in poverty, especially in rural areas. The Expanded Public Works Programme is the latest addition intended to eradicate poverty through creating labour-intensive jobs. In areas where the programme has been launched, we have observed that women are already benefiting.
Concerning women and education, the Beijing Platform of Action recognises that education is a human right and an essential tool for achieving the goals of equality, development and peace. Therefore governments are expected to ensure equal access to education; eradicate illiteracy among women; improve access to vocational training, science and technology and continuing action; allocate sufficient resources for educational reform; and promote lifelong education and training for girls and women. Since 1994, steadily but surely, the doors of learning and culture have been opening wider and wider for women and girls in our country.
The Department of Education continues to receive the biggest chunk of the national Budget in order to carry out the necessary reforms. Some of the programmes from which women benefit include Curriculum 2005, the culture of learning and in-service teacher training, where more than 50% of participants are women. The current learnership programmes of the department for unemployed graduates and out-of-school youth are targeting a 60% enrolment of women.
The Beijing Platform for Action states that women have the right to enjoy the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health - the enjoyment of this right being vital to their lives and wellbeing, and their ability to participate in all areas of public and private life. It recognises and reaffirms the rights of all women to control all aspects of their health, in particular their own fertility, as basic to their empowerment.
The free health care policy, the primary health care approach and the school health promotion programme are some of the initiatives taken to benefit women and children. The comprehensive policy on HIV/Aids which includes awareness, care and treatment, the programme for rape survivors, prevention of mother-to-child transmission and the roll out of the antiretroviral treatment programme for people living with HIV and Aids and legislation on reproductive health issues are all part of the package to implement the Beijing Platform for Action.
The Beijing Platform for Action sees violence against women as an obstacle to achieving the objectives of equality, development and peace. South Africa has identified violence against women and children as one of the five national priority areas of concern. As a result the South African government led by the ANC, of course, has committed itself to a strong, proactive and integrated programme to eliminate the scourge. Gender violence is integrated in the national plan for human rights, a national co- ordinating committee on gender violence has been established and victim empowerment programmes exist.
Parliament has passed several pieces of legislation to address violence against women. I am sure my other colleague will mention these pieces of legislation just to remind us. We know them, because we passed them. Governments are supposed to take measures that will ensure women’s access to, and full participation in power structures and decision-making. Governments must commit themselves to gender balance in governmental bodies and committees, as well as in the public administrative entities and in the judiciary. Governments must also increase women’s capacity to participate in decision-making and leadership.
In South Africa the Labour Relations Act, Act 66 of 1995 gives basic rights to domestic workers and public sector workers. The Employment Equity Act, Act 55 of 1998, outlaws discrimination on grounds of race, sex, gender, family responsibility, pregnancy, HIV status and so on, and thus protects women. The Skills Development Act, Act 97 of 1998, empowers women. The Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination, Act 4 of 2000, empowers and protects women.
South Africa is a signatory to the SADC declaration on gender and development, requiring a minimum of 30% representation of women in decision- making structures. In this area we have made strides, moving quickly from position 141 in the world before 1994 to number 8, as the ANC adopted a 30% quota for women regarding its list. The number of women Ministers and Deputy Ministers keeps on increasing. It now stands at almost 40%; fast approaching a 50-50 balance.
However, local government, particularly at ward council 1evel, still lags behind, and so does the private sector at management level. In order to achieve a national and international commitment to gender equality, national gender machinery was put in place. These structures aim to achieve equality for women in all spheres of life.
These spheres include the Office on the Status on Women; the gender focal points or gender desks; the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women; the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus - it is a pity it’s not functioning properly, but I think we will have to revive it; the Commission on Gender Equality, an independent statutory body that monitors progress and achievements towards gender equality; and lastly, civil society women’s organisations that play a vital role in influencing policy.
South Africa has come a long way since September 1995. Our achievements in the Beijing+10 are well-documented. While in some areas we are well- advanced and posed to meet the challenges, in other areas much work still needs to be done, for example, programmes tackling poverty among women must be intensified. Illiteracy among women is still higher than among men, yet more women than men participate in the Adult Basic Education and Training programme, Abet. Therefore, there is an urgent need to increase the resources for both capacity-building of service providers and for learning materials.
The way the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, is administered needs a review, in my opinion. Many, many poor students have been abandoned by the fund right in the middle of their courses and are now roaming the streets. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs S M CAMERER: Chairperson, it was my privilege to be part of the Government delegation to the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in September 1995. Therefore, I am very pleased to be part of this debate on evaluation of the conference by our Parliament, exactly nine years later.
The Beijing Conference was an incredibly exciting and demanding experience for me personally and, as far I could judge, also for all the members of our 25-women delegation. We worked very hard to make our contribution to the now famous Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action. I remember the deputy leader of our delegation, then Deputy Minister Geraldine Fraser- Moleketi, calling working sessions after supper every evening, which went on late into the night. I do believe that at that conference, because of all our hard work, we truly punched above our weight.
However, experience was also humbling and brought some perspective about our rather modest place in the world and left me with the strong impression that we operate most effectively as an important part of our Southern African region. Certain things stand out in my memory: the huge Nigerian delegation - some 200 delegates compared to our 25 - all dressed the same in vast, brightly colourful dresses, and the predominance of the Americans. I recall our press conference, which was attended by a mere handful of journalists. As we left the conference room, we encountered Madeline Allbright who headed the US delegation entering the conference room, pursued by a huge horde of media people. And, of course, Hillary Clinton stole the show when she addressed the conference!
These are realities that we have to deal with, and they will no doubt be applicable when the review of the implementation of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action takes place in New York in March 2005. This review will focus on implementation at regional and national levels, and so we must again be well prepared.
The Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action is the most thorough document ever produced by a UN conference on the subject of women’s rights. It includes agreements aimed at eliminating discrimination against women, eradicating poverty and adopting measures towards placing a decisive number of women in key positions. It also recognises the right of women to control their sexuality - reproduction being one of their human rights.
Additional critical areas of concern included an equal access of women to education and training, health care and related services. It also included a critical area of concern such as violence against women and the persistent discrimination against the girl child. Also of note in the Platform for Action are the definitions contained in the chapter on armed conflict, where rape is for the first time included as a war crime, and the acknowledgement of the racial and ethnic roots of discrimination and equality.
In assessing the achievements and further challenges nine years on, Africa as a region and South Africa as a country provide plenty of food for thought. There have been huge failures and, of course, some achievements.
If we are brutally honest, Africa has particularly failed women around the issue of sexual violence during armed conflict. In so many violent conflicts in Africa during the past nine years, even in Southern Africa, sexual violence has been used as an instrument of war. Rape is still a weapon, which has been and is still being directed at hundreds of thousands of girl children and women on both sides of these conflicts. Trafficking and sex slavery are ancillary results.
The women of Liberia, the Ivory Coast, Sierra Leon and Angola have suffered. The women of Sudan, Darfur, Burundi, Rwanda, the eastern DRC and northern Uganda are suffering still. It is therefore gratifying that leaders from our country are playing a positive role in the peace processes in these war-ravaged areas.
While the HIV/Aids pandemic was not focused on as the major health concern in 1995, it certainly is now since a large majority of the millions of Africans who are HIV-positive or who have Aids are women, particularly young women. A positive development at the review meeting held in Lusaka in April this year was the recognition of the HIV/Aids pandemic as a priority concern for the SADC region.
Poverty is still endemic in Africa and has got worse during these nine years, not better. This challenge was also acknowledged at the review meeting in Lusaka.
On the positive side, real progress has been made in establishing and implementing national gender policies and improving women’s representation in political decision-making. South Africa has far surpassed the 30% target set by our region and while Mozambique can chalk up a woman prime minister, with almost 50% of cabinet Ministers women in South Africa, this achievement puts us way ahead of the pack in our region. Progress has also been made with women’s access to health, education and micro finance.
In charting the way forward the Lusaka Report makes the point that notwithstanding progress, disparities between men and women still exist in the areas of legal rights, power-sharing and decision-making, access and control over productive resources and education and health, with the result that women still constitute the majority of the poor.
These are just some of the issues that we should concentrate on in our country evaluation and up to the IPU meeting and, of course, at subsequent review meetings. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms M M MDLALOSE: Chairperson, the role and equality of women rightly remain high on the political agenda since the World Conference on Women held in Beijing in 1995.
The issues discussed at this conference were of direct relevance to the women of South Africa. These areas, amongst others, covered women and poverty, education and training of women, women and health, violence against women, institutional mechanisms for the advancement of women and the rights of the girl child – umntwana wentombazane. These issues will be tabled at the Inter-Parliamentary Union in Geneva in two weeks time.
The repertoire has deliberately homed in on four areas, namely, women in power and decision-making, women and violence, women and the economy and the girl child. In our next national context we have also highlighted the unfinished agenda of the liberation of women from all forms of oppression and sexism, which continue to flourish within our families, workplaces, in our societies and communities. This remains a challenge to us as a nation. As one nation we are still striving to narrow the gap between the “paper rights” of women codified in the Constitution and the real lives that women lead.
“Sithi akungagcini ephepheni phela, akube sempilweni ngqo.” [We say that these should not be mere “paper rights”, but should be practical.]
The grim reality is that abject poverty affects women worse because they bear the responsibility of raising families and are often the sole breadwinners. And, the shocking truth is that physical and sexual violence against women has climbed steadily.
As parliamentarians, we are a virtual link to international public opinion. All parliamentarians who believe in the full empowerment and equality of society bear a moral responsibility to voice the interests of the South African women, and indeed, women everywhere.
The percentage of women at the highest level of national and international decision-making has changed significantly since the Beijing conference, but not enough progress has been made at the grassroots level.
“Abantu abakaqondisisi kahle ukuthi kufuneka basizwe kanjani abesimame, kufuneka bathuthukiswe kangakanani, nokuthi yini okufanele yenzeke ukuze amalungelo abo abe ngcono.” [People do not yet exactly understand how women should be helped, how they should be developed and what should be done to improve their rights.]
It is essential that we consider how Parliament can improve the status of women at this level. South Africa has a wealth of experience in working towards the empowerment of women. I believe our delegates will have much to contribute to the debate on implementing the Beijing Agenda. It is imperative that we furnish our representatives with clear and bold mandates at this conference, if we are to have a meaningful impact. I believe it is vital that the mandates must make practical recommendations and directives rather than being long on rhetoric and of a discursive nature. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N M MDAKA: Chairperson and hon members, it is sad to note that whilst we are left with only 11 years to the 2015 target endorsed by the Beijing Conference, only 16 countries have at least 30% women representation in their parliaments. This percentage will not increase without the political will of political parties represented in these parliaments to ensure that parliaments are more gender sensitive and to ensure greater women’s political participation in the introduction of gender sensitive policies.
In many countries the challenges facing women are no longer legislative, but administrative. The laws are there and it is now time to ensure that they are being implemented. Therefore, it is clear that women should be the vanguard to educating society, to changing the social attitudes and beliefs that condone, for instance, domestic violence.
Even in countries like ours, where governments have taken some measures to ensure the participation of women in the economy, these measures have not been effective, mainly because they are not systematically implemented. Our governments and parliaments should enhance our capacity to monitor progress and encourage positive change.
Despite the important steps taken by our government, it is still evident that there remains a continued cultural discriminatory attitude toward girl children as well as a lack of financial resources, which prevent their economic independence. Too many governments have a tendency to leave these matters to the community concerned on the grounds that the decision is a tribal or cultural one.
As a democratic country and progressive Parliament, we have a special duty to reach out to the other parliaments and political parties in order to encourage gender equality. We have a contribution to make, and we shouldn’t hesitate to do so. Whilst we share our experience, we may also learn innovative new ways of advancing gender equality in our own country.
These efforts must be an ongoing exercise informed by genuine political will, as opposed to the occasional debate or conference. Otherwise we merely look back every year and lament the lack of progress. I thank you.
Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, it’s such a pity that the House is so empty, and I hope that this is not a reflection of what we think of women’s issues. [Interjections.] Certainly not! No, they are there, I’ve already made sure of that.
The original Beijing declaration calls for all countries to have a national action plan to improve and address all aspects of gender discrimination, equity and advancement. During the UN’s 23rd General Assembly session on the Beijing +5, governments unanimously agreed regularly to assess further implementation of the Beijing Platform for Action.
The South African government has achieved much in terms of gender representivity at senior management and Cabinet level, and in the public sector where women make up 53% of the Public Service and 26% of senior management. Government should continue to incorporate and utilise the process of gender-based analysis and gender-responsive budgeting with respect to the development of legislation, policies and budgets.
The increasing feminisation of poverty is cause for concern. Economic activity must be opened so that women can be given more access to productive resources. The current international trade regime is deeply unfair to developing countries, impacts most negatively on poor women and is largely developed without the parliaments of this world. Parliament must ensure that poverty eradication becomes the priority of all government programmes.
The main challenges to gender equality in South Africa are the high illiteracy and mortality rates, HIV/Aids, poverty and violence against women. The South African Parliament should carry out a critical review of its processes to ensure implementation of programmes that will give effect to the Beijing declarations. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, the ACDP notes that the major focus of the Beijing +10 Evaluation Report is women and violence, and the girl child. The strategic objectives based on the Beijing Platform or Action in terms of women and violence include eliminating trafficking in women and assisting victims of violence resulting from prostitution and trafficking.
In this regard the ACDP further notes reports that South Africa is a key player in the trafficking of girls between the ages of 4 and 17 years, from rural and urban areas who are in search of work or survival, with the victims of poverty and sexual abuse, runaways and orphans being the most vulnerable.
It is commonly known that prostitution opens women to abuse and degradation. A study shows that 75% of prostitutes have attempted suicide. It is not a harmless, victimless crime as is often stated by those promoting legalisation. Of course, those most vocal and determined to push for decriminalisation are those who stand to gain the most financially from this form of slave trade.
Women and children are led into and trapped in prostitution through money and drugs, and it would be irresponsible for any government to protect those preying on women by legalising prostitution. Victoria in Australia decriminalised prostitution in 1994, resulting in an alarming increase in rape, violence, prostitution, abuse, brothels, etc. According to police legalisation failed dismally there.
Where prostitution is legal, countries become the most popular destinations for trafficked women owing to an increase in demand. Traffickers and pimps avoid prosecution as it is argued, as in the case of Sarah Baartman, that women entered into contracts voluntarily.
The UN international crime prevention head of operations admitted that when prostitution is legal or semilegal, it helps gangsters and makes enforcement more difficult. In Sweden, however, prostitution is listed in legislation against abuse of women as a gross violation of women’s integrity; and the purchase of sexual services is prohibited and punishable, placing the focus on the user and not the prostitute. This is commendable. The ACDP supports all measures to focus positive attention on the plight of women and children who face daily violence and abuse. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi! [Praise the name of women!] Chairperson, the MF firmly supports gender equality and all efforts to attain it. We already have a foundation in South Africa for the attainment of gender equality, as provided for by the supreme law of the nation - our national Constitution.
As we proudly note, all levels of government and legislation promote gender equality and efforts are made to achieve this. However, we need a database to monitor the progress of gender equality throughout the various spectrums of South African society. As it may have been noted last month, it was hard attaining such information. We could, certainly, assist the attainment of gender equality by maintaining such a database. Further, we support the primary socialisation of girls into a society promoting social, economic and political rights and awareness.
The fight against violence against women and children needs to be intensified, and all spheres of life concerning women need to be addressed though the empowerment of women. As Parliament we already have the necessary legislation in place to work towards effective gender equality. However, we need to mobilise such legislation effectively. We also have a responsibility in Africa to influence gender equality. The MF supports Beijing +10. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr T M MASUTHA: Chairperson, hon members, as already mentioned by others before me, the debate today centres around the progress made since the adoption in September 1995 by some 189 countries of the Beijing Platform for Action, which called on governments to take action in 12 critical areas of concern regarding gender equality or, perhaps to put it more accurately, inequality in the world.
It is with utmost humility that I represent my party, the ANC, in this debate, being a man and being mindful of the role that men have played or failed to play over the years in relation to gender equality in this country and the world in general.
May I for a moment pause to express appreciation to the many women in our country who, on a daily basis, continue against many odds to sustain the livelihoods of families and households, and to express appreciation, in particular, for the role they play in raising children and providing a caring, supportive and nurturing environment for them to grow up in often without the needed support of their spouses or the fathers of the children.
This contribution often goes unnoticed, unrecognised and, therefore, unrewarded by society and, indeed, women are often penalised by the manner in which the social and economic systems of society operate. Women in the workplace, for example, are often given very little or no support and, even worse, penalised for fulfilling their social responsibilities towards children, against the spirit of our Bill of Rights, labour laws and laws aimed at promoting gender equality.
Our country in particular is faced with many challenges relating to the advancement of the status of women. The mass democratic revolution, which is the central political project of the ANC, is premised on the key goal of building a new society free from racism and sexism.
In order to achieve this goal, as stated in the National Policy Framework for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equality adopted by Cabinet in December 2000:
. . . the country must undergo a paradigm shift with regard to how
resources are allocated and how people relate to each other.
These two key areas highlight the centrality of the economic and social dimensions of society in the struggle towards achieving gender equality.
The policy framework further states that: The challenges facing South Africa have been translated into national priorities.
All of these priorities have been compelling gender dimensions which need to be addressed if the country is to advance towards gender equality.
Some of the key challenges are gender relations; poverty; HIV/Aids; violence against women; access to basic needs and resources such as education, housing, social welfare services, fuel and water; access to employment, the economy, land, science, technology; and participation in political and decision-making structures.
Regarding gender relations, the challenge is to shape the broad transformation project in a way that acknowledges the centrality and compatibility of the transformation of gender relations to the broader institutional change process. This requires a fundamental review of what has come to be accepted as “business as usual”.
South Africa has made significant strides in the advancement of women and the eradication of social and economic exclusion, as well as in restoring the inherent right of women to dignity, and freedom from degradation, abuse and discrimination.
Policies and programmes in the economic field include Twip, which stands for Technology for Women in Business, driven by the Department of Minerals and Energy to promote the participation of women in technology and to recognise, through awards, the contribution of women in technology.
In terms of women in agriculture, women are supported and encouraged to be farmers through training and small grants specially established for women. There is preferential procurement for women through the Department of Trade and Industry; and women in construction are recognised by the Department of Public Works facilitating their entry into the market.
In the justice field, for example, despite the generally held view within the judiciary against the establishment of specialised courts owing to the risk of fragmenting the justice system, family courts have been established and are functioning in areas such as Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, Lebowakgomo and Johannesburg. These courts are designed to improve services to women and children in family law matters.
At this juncture, I wish to congratulate the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development on her unwavering determination in pursuing issues of gender and race, herself being the first black woman to become a Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development in this country.
To increase the number of women on the bench remains a challenge that continues to haunt the Judicial Service Commission, of which I am humbled to have been appointed a member recently by this august House. At our last sitting, for example, we recommended the addition of two more black and two more white women. Unfortunately, the culture within the legal profession still alienates and discourages young women from joining and advancing through the ranks of the legal profession, thus limiting the scope of potential candidates for selection for judgeship by the commission.
Reform of the maintenance system is an ongoing priority, according to the briefing given by the department during the budget hearings earlier in this Parliament. The project here is aimed at establishing relief measures in respect of procedures pertaining to maintenance, and at improving the management of maintenance matters focusing on six key result areas, namely, legislation, infrastructure, human resource development, information technology, communication and the integration of services.
Twenty million rand has been set aside for the appointment of the first maintenance investigators, and the first 59 of these investigators, who have been the missing link in the maintenance services chain, were appointed in 2003.
No less than 50 sexual offences courts are currently operational. They have impacted significantly on the lessening of the trauma of victims and have increased the conviction rate of offenders. The development of a victims’ charter has also helped in the empowerment of victims of sexual offences.
Finally, let me express appreciation that is also, I believe, on behalf of this House at large to the Minister of Social Development for rolling out the various social grants, in particular the child support grant, to the many poor and vulnerable amongst the masses of our society; thus providing the tool women in particular need to shield their children against the devastating effects of poverty, and promoting social cohesion. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
GENEVA ACT OF THE HAGUE AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATION OF INDUSTRIAL DESIGNS
(Consideration of request for approval by Parliament in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution)
PROTOCOL RELATING TO THE MADRID AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATION OF TRADE MARKS
(Consideration of request for approval by Parliament in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution)
Mr B A D MARTINS: Chairperson and esteemed hon members, the Geneva Act of the Hague Agreement concerning the international registration of industrial designs and the protocol relating to the Madrid Agreement concerning the international registration of trademarks are the enabling instruments in respect of the Hague and Madrid systems respectively.
The Hague system seeks to facilitate the establishment and maintenance of design protection through a single international registration for all the member countries. All designs will now be registered at a central point, namely, with the World Intellectual Property Organisation. Of the 30 members of the Hague system, 33% are from developing countries. Other member countries include key trading partners of South Africa, such as Germany, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain and Switzerland.
The Hague system also provides for the participation of regional systems, for example, through the Southern African Customs Union and the African Regional Industrial Property Office. The Madrid system on the other hand seeks to facilitate international registration, maintenance and the renewal of trademarks.
The benefits accruing from joining the Madrid and Hague systems will, amongst other things, include, firstly, effective protection and quicker registration of intellectual property rights by offering a single registration process for a number of designated countries; secondly, providing a platform for South Africa to compete internationally; thirdly, generation of foreign income through registration fees; fourthly, confidence-building for investors; fifthly, harmonisation of our intellectual property laws with those of our trading partners; sixthly, protection of intellectual property rights for South African investors; and seventh, the creation of a fair and equitable framework in the field of intellectual property. I thank you. [Applause.]
Geneva Act of the Hague Agreement Concerning the International Registration of Industrial Designs approved.
Protocol Relating to the Madrid Agreement Concerning the International Registration of Trade Marks approved.
CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE CABINET OF MINISTERS OF UKRAINE FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME
(Consideration of request for approval by Parliament in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution)
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF KUWAIT FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME
(Consideration of request for approval by Parliament in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution)
Dr R H DAVIES: Chairperson, in the 10 years of democratic order, South Africa has negotiated double taxation agreements with a significant number of countries in all parts of the world. In general terms double taxation agreements provide for persons from one of the constructing jurisdictions who is paying taxes in that jurisdiction not also to be subject to taxes in the other jurisdiction, arising from short-term or temporary activities carried out there.
Double taxation agreements encourage trade and commercial interaction, as well as cultural, educational and other exchanges by removing double taxation obligations, which might impede the development of these relations. They usually also provide for the exchange of information between the tax authorities of the two contracting parties that could be of significance in enforcing compliance. There are also proposals for later generations of double taxation agreements to include provisions to co- operate in tax collection.
The double taxation agreements that South Africa has been involved in negotiating over the years have followed the format of the Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development model convention, which is similar in most respects to a United Nations model convention.
The model provides a framework within which there is a need for individual case-by-case negotiations on such matters as the maximum time a construction firm or service provider may be present in the other jurisdiction before being regarded as a permanent establishment, subject to tax, in that other jurisdiction.
The two double tax agreements before the House today, between us and the Ukraine and Kuwait respectively, are wholly within the parameters of other double taxation agreements approved by this Parliament. The Portfolio Committee on Finance was unanimous in recommending the approval by the House, and I trust that the House will concur. Thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the State of Kuwait for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income approved.
The House adjourned at 17:05. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills
(1) The Minister of Finance
(i) Financial Services Ombud Schemes Bill [B 20 - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75) [Bill and prior notice of its
introduction published in Government Gazette No 26709 of 24
August 2004.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
10 September 2004.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bills may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
working days.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Arts and Culture
Report of the South African Geographical Names Council for 2002-2003
[RP 203-2003].