National Assembly - 14 September 2004
TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:04.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
INSTALLATION OF NEW MACE
(Announcement)
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, before we proceed with other business, I have the pleasure to announce that the new Mace was handed over to the Secretary to Parliament on Friday, 10 September 2004, and was unveiled to members this morning. The old Mace, which has been in use since 1963, but which did not reflect the identity of this House as envisaged in the Constitution, will now form part of the heritage of Parliament and will be put on display.
We shall now proceed with the formal removal of the old Mace, and the introduction of the new Mace as the symbol of authority of this House. I will now, therefore, suspend the sitting. Members are requested to remain seated while the procession led by the Serjeant-at-arms, and consisting of myself, the Deputy Speaker and the House Chairpersons, attend to the removal of the old Mace and the installation of the new one in this Chamber. The bells will be rung shortly for the resumption of business, when the procession with the Serjeant-at-arms bearing the new Mace will enter the Chamber from the front entrance.
BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 14:05 AND RESUMED AT 14:10.
The SPEAKER: Please be seated, hon members. Hon members, this new Mace, aptly called the People’s Mace, is dedicated to the people of South Africa. It is the commitment of this House to serve the people with integrity. The Mace symbolises a new season for this Parliament and our democracy, a Parliament in which all the people of South Africa, in our diversity, are called upon to participate and take ownership of our democracy.
The new Mace of the National Assembly is the product of a wide public participation process. It even involved our children, represented by the children of the St Cyprian’s School here in Cape Town, whose artworks are engraved on the drum of this Mace.
This is a modern Mace that emphasises the desire of this nation to advance in all areas of development. Yet it does not neglect the rich culture and traditions of the past. Indeed, this is a Mace of which all the people of South Africa can be proud, and we take this opportunity to invite the public to come and view a replica, which will remain in exhibition outside the Chamber. As Speaker of the National Assembly, I dedicate this new Mace to the people of South Africa, who have honoured us by electing us to serve them. Thank you. [Applause.]
I now afford parties an opportunity to comment on the historic installation of the new mace. Of course, parties are not compelled to make any comments, but should they wish to do so, they now have the opportunity.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The installation ceremony of the new Mace for the National Assembly represents yet another milestone in the consolidation of our democracy. The transformation of Parliament and the introduction of new symbols that reflect our shared vision of a better life are critical elements in the transformation of our national consciousness.
Ukutyhilwa koluphawu lalePalamente namhlanje lulonye olubonisa imbali ebaluleke kakhulu yokuqina koRhulumente wothatho-nxaxheba ngabantu bonke, nokuthi zimpawu ezinje ngezi ezithi zibonise ukuguquka kwesimo sengqondo yesizwe ngokupheleleyo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[The unveiling of the symbol of this Parliament today is one of those that show a very critical history of a government committed to public participation by all, and signs of this nature show transformation of the state of mind of the nation fully.]
Madam Speaker, the significance of this occasion becomes overwhelming in the light of the celebrations of our first decade of freedom.
Yenzeka kanye ngexesha apho, sibhiyozela iminyaka elishumi yenkululeko. [It happens at a time when we are celebrating ten years of democracy.]
In a sense, this auspicious occasion heralds the inauguration of the Pan- African Parliament.
Nokuthi, yenzeka kanye ngexesha apho iPalamente ye Afrika yonke izakuhlangana kwelilizwe lakowethu ngomhla we 14 Ku September 2004. [It also happens at a time when the Pan-African Parliament as a whole is going to meet in this country of mine on 14 September 2004.]
The House congratulates the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, the Secretary to Parliament, the staff, the public and all those who have contributed to making this launch the success it is. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Speaker, I am going to be very brief and simply say that Azapo celebrates with all of you. The installation of the new Mace, which symbolises the cutting of the umbilical cord with the past, demonstrates our new path to true independence for our country. [Applause.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, the DA gladly participates in the joyful celebration surrounding the new Mace. It is both a symbol of Parliament and a symbol of the inclusion of all our people in our democratic Parliament.
While it is a symbol of authority, it is not authoritarian. It tells us that Parliament has been elected to represent the people, to pass the laws and to hold the executive to account.
We have taken 10 years to consider the introduction of this new symbol of authority and leadership. No one can say that we rushed into changing the old for the sake of the new. We have taken time to consider and then to have designs made, and accepted a beautiful symbol which is worthy of the third democratic Parliament, and of the people of South Africa. [Applause.] Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The MF also joins in embracing the new Mace. I think it is appropriate that this Mace is unveiled during Heritage Month, and that we install our new Mace today. A close look at the Mace will tell you that it is truly a rainbow Mace.
I also want to express our sincere thanks to the designers for their input, and to our former Speaker who was also very instrumental in the whole process and very anxious to have this Mace here. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mnr L W GREYLING: Mev die Speaker, dit is gepas dat die nuwe ampstaf in hierdie besondere jaar, waarin ons die eerste 10 jaar van demokrasie vier, in gebruik geneem word.
Ons wil die vertroue uitspreek dat die ampstaf werklik ’n simbool sal wees wat die aspirasies en verwagtinge van alle Suid-Afrikaners sal weerspieël, en dat dit ons ook daagliks sal herinner aan die belangrike funksionele rol wat die Parlement en die Speaker van die Parlement ingevolge die Grondwet vervul.
Die samestelling van die ampstaf is ook esteties tipies Suid-Afrikaans, en ons glo dat alle Suid-Afrikaners trots sal wees daarop. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr L W GREYLING: Madam Speaker, it is fitting that in this special year, when we are celebrating the first 10 years of democracy, the new Mace should be introduced.
We wish to express our confidence that the Mace will be a symbol that truly reflects the hopes and aspirations of all South Africans, and that it will remind us daily of the important function and role that Parliament and the Speaker of Parliament fulfil in accordance with the Constitution.
The Mace is typically South African in its aesthetic composition, and we believe that all South Africans will be proud of it. I thank you. [Applause.]]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Thank you, Madam Speaker. What we are witnessing here today is the true meaning of the concept of transformation. Sometimes transformation is wrongly defined as the jettisoning of the old and bringing in the totally new. Represented on our Mace are our languages, our past and, in fact, our culture, which in the recent past was denigrated even by our Christian brethren, who pronounced that it was better to be a slave in a Western culture than to be free in a savage culture, the African culture.
As the IFP, we have always believed in the importance of different cultures as building blocks for a new South Africa. This is what is represented by this Mace in front of us, which we accept as the new symbol of this House. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, the ACDP acknowledges the enormous effort invested in the careful choice and detail that has gone into the making of the new parliamentary Mace. This Mace, designed to reflect the history, traditions, diversity and languages of South Africa, reveals different facets of our Africanness.
It is a beautiful work of art, which celebrates the country’s natural beauty, its people, its plant and animal life, and its rich mineral resources. It also proudly displays a gold book that represents the Constitution of our country. Sadly, it is remiss in one thing only, and that is that it ignores one major aspect of South African life, the Almighty God, which the majority of South Africans serve, the Creator of the universe and everything in it, Jesus Christ who deserves all honour and glory. [Interjections.]
Apart from this unfortunate omission, the Mace has been beautifully crafted and the ACDP congratulates everyone involved. We commit ourselves to serving the people of South Africa with passion and integrity. I thank you.
Dr C P MULDER: Mev die Speaker, die enigste iets wat vasstaan en seker is in die politiek en die staatkunde is dat niks onveranderd bly nie, en dat verandering ’n gegewe is wat van tyd tot tyd plaasvind.
Daarom is dit ook gepas dat ons ’n geleentheid het soos vandag waar daar weer ’n verandering kom. Die vorige ampstaf het ’n baie lang en tradisieryke geskiedenis gehad, maar dit is ook so dat ’n groot deel van sy ontstaan en sy wortels uit ons koloniale geskiedenis kom. Daarom is dit gepas dat ons vandag ’n totaal nuwe benadering en nuwe tradisie volg wat vereenselwig kan word met ons werklikheid dat ons almal deel is van Afrika.
Die VF Plus is daarom bly dat ons vandag hierdie stap kan neem en dat ons ook oplossings sal soek wat gepas is en in lyn is met ons tradisies in Afrika. Die Parlement, sê ons Grondwet, verteenwoordig die mense van Suid- Afrika. Hierdie ampstaf is daarom vir ons ’n simbool daarvan dat hierdie Plek ’n liggaam met gesag is en die plek is waar al die standpunte van al die mense van Suid-Afrika verteenwoordig sal word. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, the only thing that is certain in politics and statesmanship is that nothing remains the same, and that change inevitably takes place from time to time.
For that reason it is also appropriate for us to have an occasion such as this one today, when change is taking place again. The previous Mace had a very long history rich in tradition, but it is also true that a large part of its origin and its roots come from our colonial history. Therefore it is appropriate that we follow a totally new approach and establish a new tradition today that can be associated with our reality, that we are all part of Africa.
For that reason the FF Plus is glad that we can take this step today and that we shall also be seeking solutions that are appropriate and in line with our traditions in Africa. Parliament, according to our Constitution, represents the people of South Africa. Therefore this Mace is symbolic of the fact that this Place is a body with authority and is the place where all the standpoints of all the people of South Africa will be represented. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, we believe that there is a time to come, and a time to go. There is a time for new things to come, while old ones make room for them. And therefore, we in the UCDP wish to join all other people, members in this House, and South Africans at large, in congratulating the people and the committee that has been working on this since last year, mainly for the fact that all these things are products that come out of our own soil.
We therefore also express our pleasure and happiness with the installation of the new Mace. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, there must be some people that are turning in their graves right now. I think the lesson in this today is that you cannot stop transformation or change. We certainly welcome the new Mace. We hope, too, that the new Mace will be a symbol of building bridges between the old and the new.
Yes, there were some very bad things in the past, but there were also some good things. We need to take some of these good things and build the future with them.
We are certainly pleased today to see that such a lot of gold is leaving this House. I hope it is going to be kept safely somewhere where somebody cannot steal it. It must be protected for future generations. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N T GODI: Madam Speaker, the old Mace was a terrible eyesore to the PAC. [Laughter.] We therefore join the House in welcoming and applauding the new Mace. It represents a break with the past, the heralding of a new era and a pointer to the future. It is a reclamation of our heritage and a consolidation of our democracy.
However, we want to emphasise that we hope that the transformation will not end at the level of the Mace, but that we shall undertake far more fundamental transformation in respect of this very Parliament than we have done thus far. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr G T MADIKIZA: Madam Speaker, the UDM also joins in the celebration of the installation of the new Mace, and we welcome this very heartily. Thank you. [Applause.]
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE FOR RAY ALEXANDER-SIMONS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes with a deep sense of sorrow the untimely death of Ray Alexander- Simons, who passed away on the evening of 12 September 2004 at the age of 89;
2) recalls -
a) the heroic role Ray Alexander-Simons played in the struggle
for the realisation of workers’ rights, nonracialism,
nonsexism and a united and democratic South Africa;
b) that, together with other stalwarts of the struggle for the
emancipation of women, including heroines like Helen Joseph,
Lilian Ngoyi and Florence Mkhize, she was a founder member of
the Federation of South African Women of which she was the
first national secretary;
c) that she joined the South African Communist Party in 1929 and
was the general secretary of the Food and Canning Workers’
Union up until she was banned from trade union work in 1953;
d) that in 1954 Africans in the Western Cape elected her to
Parliament, but she could not take up her seat as an Act of
Parliament was passed to prevent her from doing so; and
e) that in 1965 she went into exile and was based in Zambia where
she continued working for national liberation until the
unbanning of liberation movements in 1990;
3) acknowledges that Ray Alexander-Simons bequeathed to our country and
people a proud legacy of unwavering commitment to democracy and
social justice for all humanity; and
4) conveys its deep-felt condolences to her family and loved ones.
I thank you. [Applause.] Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, the DA fully supports the motion before the House. This has indeed been a sad period for South Africa as several stalwarts of the struggle against apartheid have passed away recently.
Ray Alexander-Simons certainly established her place in history. Her fight for a nonsexist, nonracial, united and democratic South Africa is legendary. It brought her great hardships in life and forced her to leave South Africa in order to enable her to continue her struggle for a new and better South Africa.
It was indeed fitting that she was able to live the last years of her life in the country that she loved and for which she had fought so hard. The DA offers sincere condolences to her family and friends. Thank you, Mr Chairman. [Applause.]
Mnu V B NDLOVU: Sihlalo neNdlu ehloniphekile, sisukuma nokwesekela isiphakamiso esibekwe uSoswebhu oMkhulu esimaqondana nokushona kukadadewethu, u-Anti, ugogo, u-Ray Simons. Kuyaziwa ukuthi emzabalazweni wabasebenzi ubeneqhaza elikhulu alibambileyo kwaze kwafika kulesi sikhathi esikusona manje.
Kuyaziwa futhi ukuthi uwulwele kakhulu umzabalazo engabuki bala esebenzisa ubuhlakani bakhe elekelelwa ubuhlakani bomyeni wakhe osewadlula emhlabeni. Sicela ukuthi nabakubo, amadlozi akhe, nomyeni wakhe sengathi bangambheka baphinde bamhlangabeze lapho bekhona. Sengathi umphefumulo wakhe ungalala ngokuthula. Siyathokoza. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson and honourable House, we stand up to support the motion put forward by the Chief Whip, which is about the passing away of our sister, aunt and grandmother Ray Simons. It is well known that she played a big role in the struggle of the workers, until the present time.
It is also known that she fought for liberation, ignoring the colour bar, using her wit, and assisted by the shrewdness of her late husband. We pray that her family, her ancestors and her husband would look after her and meet her wherever they are. May her soul rest in peace. We thank you.]
Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, the PAC salutes the revolutionary spirit, zeal, fortitude and courage of the late Ray Simons. We wish to point out to the House that we hope that her example will continually guide us so that, as public representatives, we don’t become too comfortable in our seats in Parliament and discard the constituencies out there that we represent. Thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chair. The MF also associates itself with the motion in extending its deepest regret and condolences on the loss of an outstanding woman, a stalwart, Ray Alexander-Simons. This trade unionist and SA Communist Party champion contributed greatly to the working class and women of South Africa. Born in 1913, Simons lived with us through our history and, with us, made history.
To her bereaved family and friends, we send our deepest condolences. Ms Simons, we thank you and cherish you deeply. May you rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Thank you, Mr Chair. The UCDP would like to express its condolences to the bereaved. We would like to say that we are thankful for the life of Mrs Ray Alexander-Simons. She allowed her life to be invaded by the larger destinies of mankind. Her disposition throughout her life was one of selflessness. We say: Rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L W GREYLING: The ID agrees with the sentiments expressed in the House today. Ray Alexander-Simons was a true hero of the struggle for liberation in South Africa.
I had the pleasure of meeting Ray Alexander-Simons about eight years ago. I found her at the age of 80 still poring over a computer, working on and engaging in issues of workers’ liberation. I salute her for the tireless work she put in.
It was not only Ray Alexander-Simons who contributed greatly to the struggle for liberation in South Africa, but the entire Simons family. Mary Simons was my lecturer, and I express my deepest condolences to her and to the rest of the Simons family. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vho P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Mudzulaphanda wa Nndu, rine vha Azapo ri khou lilisa muta wa Vho Ray Alexander-Simons. Sa mulwela mbofholowo ri ri vho siya zwe vha sika. Vha tshimbile zwavhudi nahone vha ye u dzula na vhanwe vho tuwaho tshifhingani tsho fhelaho vhane vha nga Vho Tambo na Vho Biko. Ri ri kha vha tshimbile zwavhudi vha yo dzula na vhenevho. Ndo livhuwa. [U vhanda zwanda.] (Translation of Tshivenda paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: House Chairperson, as Azapo we send our condolences to the family of Ray Alexander-Simons. She left behind what she initiated as a freedom fighter. She must rest in peace. In addition, she must be with those who have left us previously, such as Mr Tambo and Mr Biko. We say: Rest in peace with them. I thank you. [Applause.]]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, the UDM would also like to pass on its condolences to the bereaved family. We really feel that she made a meaningful contribution towards what we have achieved. We hope, as we sometimes believe, that wherever she is, she will still make a contribution in her own way towards the future. We know that when a person has passed away, sometimes we think it is the end. But some of us believe that there will still be contact with those who have left us, and we are very grateful. Re leboga ka mokgwa wo a šomilego ka gona. Ke mosadi wa basadi. [We appreciate how she carried this out. She is an ideal woman.]
We are where we are because of some of her contributions.
Re lebogile kudu. [We thank her very much.] [Applause.]
Dr P W A MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, die VF Plus vereenselwig hom graag met die mosie van roubeklag vir Ray Alexander-Simons wat vanmiddag voor die Huis dien. Ons vereenselwig ons met die sentimente uitgespreek en wil ons opregte meelewing en meegevoel betuig met die ANC wat ’n kameraad verloor het, maar ook spesifiek met die familie wat agterbly en wat in hierdie tyd hartseer is. Mag hulle vertroosting vind in hierdie moeilike tyd wat vir hulle voorlê. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER: Mr Chairman, the FF Plus would like to identify itself with the motion of condolence for Ray Alexander-Simons that has been put to the House this afternoon. We identify ourselves with the sentiments expressed and would like to express our sincere sympathy and condolences with the ANC who has lost a comrade, but also specifically with the family who remain behind and are grieving during this time. May they find comfort during this difficult time ahead. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairman, the ACDP joins the House in conveying our sincere condolences to the family and friends of Ray Alexander-Simons. It is our sincere hope that they have the assurance and confidence that she has gone to be with her Maker, and we pray that they will experience the peace of Jesus Christ at this time.
We acknowledge the high esteem in which Ray is held in terms of the role she played in the struggle for workers’ rights, nonracialism, nonsexism and a united and democratic South Africa. We commend her for her commitment to democracy and social justice - a worthy cause. Thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon members, to say that Ray Alexander- Simons was a great person is an understatement. I want to associate myself with those who say that, in her, South Africa has lost one of its most remarkable daughters.
Born in 1913 in Latvia, she started participating in Marxist study-class circles at a very early age. As a result, she developed a consciousness of the world and life around her, of which children of her age were totally oblivious.
There is a story of her being asked to speak at the launch of a Jewish university in 1926. In her speech, she made the remark that any university anywhere should be celebrated as it was like a candle in terms of how it brought understanding to people. She illustrated this by saying “whether it is in Jerusalem or Timbuktu”.
The story goes on to say that her Zionist teacher came to her afterwards very angry, and said to her: “How dare you compare Jerusalem with Timbuktu? Do you know where Timbuktu is?” She said, “Yes, I know. It’s in Africa – in central Africa.” She was 13 at the time, but she was already so clear in her mind about the fact that it did not matter where you were, but that you were a human being. In fact, she was a true citizen of the world throughout her life. [Applause.]
In 1929, when she was 15, her mother, fearing that Ray was likely to be arrested, since a colleague of hers of the same age group had been arrested, packed up and sent her to South Africa where her mother had two sisters. That’s when she arrived here. She immediately involved herself in some very serious organisational work here in Cape Town, organising trade unions and organising for the SA Communist Party.
I wish to quote briefly – in her own words - how she captured a certain part of her life:
In 1953 I received a very severe banning order. Despite this, I carried on working, helping and organising. I also stood for Parliament in 1954, but when the election results were declared and I went to Parliament, the Special Branch pushed me off the steps. Then I sued them for violence against me, and the money they paid me out paid the cost of the election campaign. I worked and I carried on. Then I got busy doing research for our book Class and Colour that came out in 1968.
So she carries on in this particular interview.
Ray Simons also had a very keen sense of humour. When she tells the story of the years immediately after she arrived in South Africa, she refers to her boyfriend that she had left behind in Latvia, called Edgar. She said that they had, as she was preparing to go, a discussion that was based on the five-year plan of the then Soviet Union. The idea was that within that five-year period Edgar would come and visit her here in South Africa. And then she would immediately say: “Of course, he didn’t, but that’s another story.”
Of course, we know that the rest of the story is that she got married to Jack Simons, who was a true companion and a comrade to her throughout their lives, and together they left and went to Lusaka, briefly to England and then back to Lusaka, where they lived and worked among our people. They were the first whites to be active members of the ANC, even though a decision was to be taken formally years later for white membership to be recognised within the ranks of the ANC.
Comrade Ray was really a good person who put her all into each and every task that she was given. She worked as rigorously as a woman activist as she did as an organiser of workers and as she did for the Communist Party. I believe that there is a lesson here for all of us, as South Africans who remain behind: we should learn from that attitude of diligence and indeed follow in the footsteps that say “Vuk’uzenzele, Mzantsi Afrika.” [Vukuzenzele, South Africa.]
Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Motion agreed to.
MOTION ON ORDER PAPER
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): We now come to Motions on the Order Paper. I have been informed that the Minister for the Public Service and Administration will not be making a statement today, and therefore the motion on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party and the statement by the Minister fall away.
REPORT BY MINISTER OF HOUSING COMMENDED
(Member’s Statement)
Nksz Z A KOTA (ANC): Sihlalo, ndiziva ndivuya kakhulu kwaye ndiyincoma ingxelo enikwe nguMphathiswa wezeZindlu, uQabane uLindiwe Sisulu, kwikomiti yezezindlu. Kucaca mhlophe ukuba ngokwakhiwa kwezindlu, iyagwetywa indlala yaye wonke ubani owamkela ngaphantsi kwama-R3 500 unelungelo lokufumana inkxaso-mali ezeleyo kurhulumente. Abantu abamkela phakathi kwama-R3 500 nama-R7 000 baza kunikwa uchatha ngurhulumente.
Sicela wonke ubani athathe inxaxheba ekwakhiweni kwezindlu; omdala nomncinci. Eli lilima elifuna wonke ubani alamkele ngezandla ezingenamkhinkqi. Onke amalungu ePalamente ayacelwa ukuba ancedise urhulumente ekwakheni izindlu, ngakumbi kwindawo yamatyotyombe axhage uhola u-N2 kunye nezo zise-District Six. Sithi halala, kulwakhiwo lwezindlu, halala! Phambili ANC, phambili! Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa member’s statement follows.)
[Ms Z A KOTA (ANC ): Chairperson, I am very happy to commend the report submitted by the Minister of Housing, Comrade Lindiwe Sisulu, to the Housing Committee. It is very clear that by building houses, poverty is indeed being alleviated, and everybody earning less than R3 500 have a right to receive a full subsidy from the government. People earning between R3 500 and R7 000 would be given a portion by the government.
We ask everybody, old and young, to participate in the building of houses. This is a challenge which everybody needs to welcome with dedication. All members of Parliament are requested to assist the government in building houses, especially for informal settlements along the N2 Freeway and those in District Six. We say, well done! To the building of houses, well done! Forward ANC! Forward! Thank you. [Applause.]]
TWO FORMER FINANCE MECs IN CONFLICT WITH
PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT ACT
(Member’s Statement)
Ms R TALJAARD (DA): Chairperson, two former Finance MECs have failed to uphold the tight standards set in the Public Finance Management Act, with Deputy Finance Minister Jabu Moleketi allegedly acting illegally in awarding a tender to Infotek Services, in breach of the PFMA. This House expresses its dismay at the new Deputy Minister of Finance’s so-called slip, as he appears not to take the provisions of sections 17 and 22 of the PMFA seriously, and calls on him to explain his actions.
Similarly, former Eastern Cape Finance MEC Enoch Godongwana has allegedly been sacked for considerable provincial overspending. [Interjections.] Mr Godongwana must account for his tenure as MEC, and Finance Minister Mr Trevor Manuel must inform this House why he downplayed the provincial finance management problems in a recent parliamentary response.
These actions set a bad precedent for accounting officers across the public sector that must adhere to the PFMA in handling taxpayers’ money. Unless action is taken, the actions of the former MECs will contribute to a culture of impunity in public finance management and jeopardise the PMFA. All the role-players and political office bearers responsible for financial management shoulder a specific responsibility not only to uphold the PFMA, but, quite crucially, to lead by example in this regard. [Applause.]
ATTACKS ON JUDGES AND MAGISTRATES CONDEMNED
(Member’s Statement)
Mr T E VEZI (IFP): Thank you, Chair. Various incidents countrywide have been reported of judges and magistrates who have been attacked or threatened by criminals trying to intimidate them. According to a member of the National Union of Prosecutors of South Africa, some of the types of crimes of which prosecutors have been victims include being forced off the road, being shot at, as well as being stabbed and threatened. Some of these attacks have occurred in their homes, as well as in the courts.
These people work in a high-risk environment, and sometimes deal with very sensitive cases. They should therefore be afforded the necessary protection to ensure that they are able to perform their duties to the best of their abilities, without fearing for their lives or having outside elements trying to influence their decisions.
We cannot allow this type of situation to escalate and become a common occurrence. Our judges and magistrates must not been seen by criminals as easy targets because of their lack of protection or inadequate security in our courts.
The relevant authorities and stakeholders should work together in order to find a solution to this problem. I thank you. [Applause.]
NATIONAL WATER RESOURCE STRATEGY
(Member’s Statement)
Ms C C SEPTEMBER (ANC): Thank you, Chairperson. The adoption of the National Water Resource Strategy by the Cabinet on 1 September 2004 places South Africa in a position to reach one of the first targets in the Johannesburg Plan of Action adopted at the 2002 World Summit on Sustainable Development, namely to develop national water resource management.
The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, as the custodian of national water resources, through this strategy, can now ensure that our water resources are used to meet the needs of our people in an equitable way and in pursuit of sustainable socio-economic transformation.
The ANC welcomes the adoption of the National Water Resource Strategy and is confident that by harnessing our water resources, we will continue our drive against inequality, poverty and deprivation. I thank you. [Applause.]
PREDATORY BANKING PRACTICES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M STEPHENS (UDM): Thank you, Chair. The UDM is dismayed at the latest attempt by the big four South African banks to extend their collusive practices to the banking market for the poor. Their plan to introduce a so- called low-cost bank account is nothing but a ruse to extend their predatory banking practices also to the poor.
We wonder what happened to the basic business of banking in South Africa. Banks are supposed to make profits from investing deposits, not levying charges. Banks seem to have forgotten that customers are doing them a favour by depositing their money with them, and not the other way around.
The basic banking product offered by every bank must be an ordinary savings account at zero cost to the depositor. This is available in all Western countries with banking infrastructures such as ours. Even free private cheque accounts are offered in most countries.
In South Africa, free savings accounts were the norm, until banks discovered the wonderful facility of charging fees. Their exuberant pursuit of profit through bank charges has excluded millions of South Africans from the banking system, with disastrous results for private savings, the accumulation of wealth by the underprivileged and capital accumulation in the economy as a whole. It is time to change. South Africans are entitled to at least the same banking facilities as are enjoyed in other countries. We demand a basic interest-bearing, cost-free savings account for all South Africans. Thank you. [Applause.]
PLIGHT OF AIDS ORPHANS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S SIMMONS (NNP): Voorsitter, die verhaal van die 15-jarige Swelile wat aan die hoof van ’n huishouding staan en na sy twee jonger broers moet omsien, is die lot van duisende vigs-wesies in Suid-Afrika. Verskeie probleme staar vigs-wesies elke dag probleme in die gesig, soos ’n gebrek aan opvoeding, inkomste en toegang tot gesondheidsorg. Daarom verwelkom die Nuwe NP die skenking van sowat R234 miljoen wat deur USAid aan Suid-Afrika geskenk is en wat vir, onder andere, MIV/vigs aangewend sal word.
Die NNP wil ’n beroep doen op die regering dat ’n deel van dié skenking gebruik sal word om die lot van vigs-wesies te verlig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr S SIMMONS (NNP): Chairperson, the story of the fifteen-year-old Swelile who heads a household and has to take care of his two younger brothers, is the plight of thousands of Aids orphans in South Africa. Aids orphans face various problems every day, such as a lack of education, income and access to health care. The NNP therefore welcomes the donation of R234 million that was donated to South Africa by USAid and that will be utilised, amongst others, for HIV/Aids.
The NNP wants to appeal to the government that a part of this donation will be used to relieve the plight of Aids orphans.]
It is time we threw these children a lifeline, because they are the most vulnerable of our communities and need all the support they can get. We have to give them hope for the future. Thank you.
FF PLUS WINS BY-ELECTION IN MFULENI MUNICIPALITY
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr W D SPIES (VF Plus): Voorsitter, sowat drie weke gelede het die DA ’n pamflet vir die munisipale tussenverkiesing in Wyk 9 in Mfuleni versprei waarin hulle onder andere die volgende sê:
Slegs die DA is groot en sterk genoeg om die ANC te pak. Die DA weet onderhandelings met die ANC mors net tyd. Die ANC verstaan net die taal van mag. Die DA is ’n groot en sterk party wat die ANC kan pak en wen. En die VF Plus is te klein en sag om ’n verskil te maak.
Dit is dus vir my aangenaam om met die Huis te deel dat die VF Plus nie te klein was om in Wyk 9 van die Mfuleni-munisipaliteit ’n verskil te maak nie. Die VF Plus het op 25 Augustus daarin geslaag om in dié wyk ’n DA- meerderheid van meer as 3000 stemme te omskep in ’n wins vir die VF Plus.
Ons party het sy stemmetal sedert die algemene verkiesing in 2000 met meer as tien maal vergroot en dié uitslag verteenwoordig ’n swaai van 45% weg van die DA af. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr W D SPIES (FF Plus): Chairperson, about three weeks ago the DA distributed a pamphlet for the municipal by-election in Ward 9, in Mfuleni, in which they said, amongst other things, the following:
Slegs die DA is groot en sterk genoeg om die ANC te pak. Die DA weet
onderhandelings met die ANC mors net tyd. Die ANC verstaan net die
taal van mag. Die DA is ‘n groot en sterk party wat die ANC kan pak en
wen. En die VF Plus is te klein en sag om ‘n verskil te maak.
It is therefore my pleasure to share with the House the fact that the FF Plus was not too small to make a difference in Ward 9 of the Mfuleni municipality. On 25 August the FF Plus succeeded in transforming a DA majority of more than 3 000 votes into a gain for the FF Plus.
Our party has increased its number of votes more than tenfold since the general elections of 2000, and this result represents a swing of 45% away from the DA.]
We have succeeded in proving the DA wrong by beating both the DA and the ANC in this crucial by-election. We trust that we will also prove the DA wrong about their view of our strategy of being an opposition party that talks to the government of the day. I thank you.
JOINT VENTURE BETWEEN BUSINESS AGAINST CRIME AND NATIONAL
INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S ABRAM (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the joint venture between Business Against Crime, BAC, and the National Intelligence Agency, NIA, to fight crime. The two institutions have signed a two-year agreement. The accord will, from time to time, be reviewed and joint initiatives identified.
For the third time in succession, South Africans have given the ANC a mandate to govern this country. Our mandate is based on a people’s contract. The recent accord is another brick in the building of the contract. The participation of our communities will give life to the accord through structures such as the community policing forums. Their revitalisation is therefore crucial. We call on our people to support this initiative for the betterment of our society. This is a people’s contract to fight crime. Thank you, Sir. [Applause.]
LACK OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT IN PUBLIC SECTOR
(Member’s Statement)
Dr S M VAN DYK (DA): Voorsitter, die openbare en plaaslike finansiële bestuurswette bepaal dat deursigtigheid ten opsigte van finansiële bestuur aan die orde van die dag moet wees. In ’n amptelike verslag, soos voorgelê deur die Nasionale Tesourie aan die Parlement se Staande Komitee oor Openbare Rekening, is dit duidelik dat net 60% van die nasionale departemente kwartaallikse ouditverslae voorlê. Net 57% van die nasionale departemente bestee geld volgens hul kontantvloeiprojeksies, en net 66% van die nasionale departemente hou gereeld inligtingsessies tussen die bestuur en ondergeskiktes insake finansiële bestuursaangeleenthede. Dit laat onwillekeurig die vraag ontstaan wat van die ANC se onderneming van skoon en doeltreffende openbare administrasie geword het.
By munisipaliteite gaan dit nog erger. Die Gaugtengse Komitee oor Openbare Rekenings sê dat verskeie munisipaliteite net funksioneer met behulp van oortrokke rekenings en sentrale hulp. Indien die provinsie nie ingryp nie, sal baie plaaslike owerhede nie as lopende ondernemings kan voortbestaan nie.
Die DA sê dat die kiesers daar buite die reg het om in opstand te kom omdat hulle belastinggeld deur die regerende party se swak en ondoeltreffende administrasie verkwis en roekeloos bestee word. Dit is hoog tyd dat die Minister van Finansies vir ons aandui wat hy omtrent hierdie voortslepende finansiële bestuursagteruitgang in die openbare sektor gaan doen. Dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.) [Dr S M VAN DYK (DA): Chairperson, public and local financial management laws stipulate that transparency with regard to financial management should be the order of the day. From an official report, as submitted by the National Treasury to Parliament’s Standing Committee on Public Accounts, it is clear that only 60% of national departments submit quarterly audit reports. Only 57% of national departments spend money according to their cash flow projections, and only 66% of national departments conduct information sessions between management and subordinates with regard to financial management matters on a regular basis. This automatically gives rise to the question as to what happened to the ANC’s undertaking of clean and efficient public administration.
It is even worse in municipalities. The Gauteng Committee on Public Accounts states that several municipalities only function with the assistance of overdrafts and central aid. If the province does not intervene, many local authorities will not be able to survive as going concerns.
The DA says that the electorate out there has the right to protest because their tax money is squandered and spent in a reckless way by the governing party’s poor and inefficient administration. It is high time that the Minister of Finance indicates to us what he is going to do about this persistent deterioration in financial management in the public sector. Thank you. [Applause.]]
HISTORY OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE PAC
(Member’s Statement)
Dr S E M PHEKO (PAC): Chairman, apartheid and colonial historians stretched every muscle to deny the history of the African people in this country, or to distort it. According to them, the history of our country began in 1652; before then there was no history.
These settler historians and their supporters went to the ridiculous extent of writing that the African country was empty land when the whites arrived here. This, of course, was false, but the objective was to destroy the history of the African people so that colonial and foreign interests could be protected at the expense of the Africans.
This kind of history seems to be repeating itself. There is a concerted effort to destroy and distort the history of the PAC, with the view to falsifying the political history of this country. There is a new form of apartheid that is reluctant to give recognition to all heroes and heroines of our national struggle, regardless of their political affiliation.
History is for posterity, not for political propaganda. History must be recorded objectively, truthfully and professionally. Izwe lethu! [Our country!] [Applause.]
TRANSFER OF LAND
(Member’s Statement)
Ms J E SOSIBO (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC commends the sugarcane industry on their initiative to transfer 78 000 hectares of farmland to black owners. This industry has committed itself to transferring at least 30% of the industry to black ownership by the year 2014.
This is a far-sighted and positive contribution to efforts aimed at transforming the agricultural sector in our country. It is indeed refreshing to encounter an industry that is proactive in addressing the land question in our country. The meaningful participation of the larger section of our population in the economy is one of the important imperatives that we must achieve in order to give true meaning to freedom and nonracialism.
We call on other economic actors within and outside the agricultural industry to emulate this shining example by the sugarcane growers. The ANC calls on all economic sectors to join the people’s contract to ensure that all our country’s people share in the country’s wealth, in the knowledge that such efforts are part of consolidating our democracy. I thank you. [Applause.]
PROTECTION OF JUDICIAL OFFICIALS
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs S M CAMERER (DA): Chairperson, the DA welcomes the move by Cabinet to protect judicial officers, prosecutors and other public officials. It is long overdue, but better late than never. We hope that there will be adequate follow-through to put measures in place as soon as possible.
The DA has repeatedly pointed out in Parliament that the country’s beleaguered prosecutors and judicial officers are not sufficiently protected from the criminals they deal with in terms of the Department of Justice’s own security arrangements. It has been estimated that 2 000 more security personnel are needed at a cost of some R500 million to secure them, but a mere R45 million has been allocated this time around.
We’ll be asking for a full parliamentary debate on inadequate court security as a matter of national concern. The long list of attacks in the past year includes a prosecutor stabbed by a poison-bearing syringe in court; another forced off the road by a gang trying to steal a docket; another terrorised by a gang at home; a woman magistrate stabbed in the head by a knife-wielding prisoner in Worcester; a woman magistrate attacked by an accused in the Roodepoort Magistrates’ Court and a woman prosecutor attacked by an accused in the Bellville Court toilets. Very often, women court officials bear the brunt of these attacks. Hopefully, the new police unit will go some way towards addressing the situation. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
BRAIN DRAIN
(Member’s Statement)
Prince N E ZULU (IFP): Mr Chairperson, the migration of skilled professionals, especially in the health sector, from South Africa is well documented and has been a concern for some time now. It is therefore very worrying that the situation does not seem to be improving. However, we now have an undertaking from the Minister of Health that she has secured a guarantee from the British health Minister that regulations allowing recruitment from developing countries must be made tighter.
It was reported recently that South Africa is one of the leading suppliers of doctors to developed countries. There are over 11 000 South African doctors registered in the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada and New Zealand. Last year alone, of the doctors who joined the British medical register, 9 282 were UK graduates, while 3 334 graduates were trained in South Africa. So, for every three British doctors registered in the UK, there was one doctor who was trained in South Africa.
A leading medical journal estimates that it costs about R500 000 to train one doctor. Considering the number of doctors that we are losing, this is a very costly affair – both financially and in terms of human resources - which we cannot afford. This situation is of particular concern in the light of the critical shortages of staff that we are facing in our public health sector. I thank you, Chairperson.
AWARDS TO SOUTH AFRICAN FILM
(Member’s statement)
Mr K M KHUMALO (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC salutes the scriptwriters, the actors and the producers of the film called Yesterday which is currently being screened. We also salute actress Leleti Khumalo and many of the best South Africans. The film has made headlines. It was awarded the inaugural Human Rights Film Award. Two other South African films, Zulu Love Letter and Yizo Yizo 3, also made their mark at the festival.
The Venice Film Festival has unlocked doors for many South African artists and has enabled a local production to be viewed by international audiences. Film critics from all over the world who attended the screening of the film were impressed with the quality of work and the refreshing approach of the South African artists. As we speak, the film is on its way to the Toronto Film Festival, where it is expected to make waves.
The ANC will continue to support the work of the artists, and we congratulate the SA Film Foundation on their sterling work.
We wish to thank the following people and say that we are very happy with and proud of Darrel James Roodt and Anant Singh, Sanjiv Singh, Kenneth Khambula and, most of all, Leleti Khumalo. And on that note we say: Malibongwe! [Praise be to women!]
SECURITY OF JUDICIAL OFFICERS
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I thank the hon Camerer and Vezi for their comments around the security of judicial officers. This is obviously a very serious issue, and one that we have to take seriously and try to find apposite responses to.
Now, as you are aware, for some time now we have been trying to develop a much more integrated and holistic policy around this matter, around all security matters in our courts, as well as on the issue of the security of judicial officers. But while we are developing that policy, we have not sat back and done nothing. As you are aware, we have undertaken a whole lot of programmes and projects to respond to some issues immediately. You’ve mentioned one of them.
We have taken a decision to create a unit of the SA Police that will guard and give security, particularly to key points, which will include courts. And hopefully that will happen and increase as we go ahead.
Secondly, as you are also aware, we have a policy in place that, if there are individual threats against certain judicial officers, and they are brought to our attention, the security forces do a full security evaluation of that person and then, if necessary, we put security measures in place. That happened particularly, with regard to the Pagad cases, where the magistrates and judges doing those cases were given specific protection.
Then you also know that, particularly through the interventions of Parliament’s Justice committee, we’ve been able to increase the budget around security matters significantly. In many courts of our country, we have now been able to install more security measures – not enough and not in all of them, but it’s a step forward.
Of course, there are also broader issues. The one that the Judicial Office has raised with us is that they want us to install an alarm system in each judge’s home, because apparently that was done under the apartheid government. So we are considering that as well, to see what can be done in that regard.
I do note, though, a very, very serious comment that was made in the newspapers, which I find quite astounding, namely that there are some magistrates that have alleged that they feel under such pressure that they give judgments that are contrary to what they would have given in a given case. I find it completely astounding that someone can sit on the Bench and say that they feel so pressurised by someone or something, that they give a judgment not in line with their conscience and what the facts of the case demand.
I find that completely astounding and I must say that no one has ever brought that to anyone’s attention; no one has ever told us that they are under that kind of pressure when they are giving judgments. I find that a very unfortunate comment made by those persons.
I would actually like them to come out publicly and tell us who they are, who these judges and magistrates are who feel that they are under such pressure. We’ll then try and deal with it and give them the necessary protection. [Time expired.]
CO-OPERATION OF AGENCIES IN FIGHT AGAINST CRIME
(Minister’s Response) The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Thank you very much. There are a number of patriotic South Africans out there who are assisting the law- enforcement agencies of the country to deal with matters of crime. Business Against Crime is one organisation that, for quite some years now, has been assisting in this regard, not only in terms of the work that the police do, but right through the integrated justice system. They have assisted us with resources to ensure that our courts are able to work effectively, and so on.
But there are others who, as I have said, are patriotic and have come forward to give us both time and energy in order for us to fulfil our function of providing peace and stability in South Africa. They include the various religious formations in the country.
I want to appeal – this is an appeal I have extended in this House over time - to all of us who are part and parcel of this vehicle fighting against crime to unite our efforts and, therefore, ensure that we succeed in what we are trying to do, which is to create conditions of peace and stability in South Africa.
We, as public representatives of our people, ought to be at the head and part of the vanguard as we participate in our crime prevention strategy. So, we want to commend those organisations that we are already working with in this respect. Thank you.
RETENTION OF HEALTH PROFESSIONALS BY SOUTH AFRICAN HEALTH SECTOR
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, thank you very much. I would just like to engage with the point that was raised about the health sector and the seepage of health workers, in particular medical doctors. I want to say, yes, we welcome that kind of input. But there is a need for this House to come to grips with the overall human resources development plan that the Minister of Health is putting on the table to look at the issue of both recruitment and retention of health professionals, in particular medical doctors, within the health system.
Having stated that, I think it is necessary also to put on the table the fact that this particular round of wage negotiations does take that particular aspect into account. As a matter of fact, we have put aside 1,3% of the wage bill for job creation in particular. Out of that amount, there is a sum of R400 million, over the next three years, that has been set aside specifically for the health sector in order to ensure that we recruit more medical professionals.
In addition to that, we have set aside R750 million for this financial year to address the issue of scarce skills in that sector, as well as setting additional amounts of money aside for rural allowances. I felt that it was necessary to raise this, because as political parties with a limited understanding of the whole issue of the wage package on the table at this point in time, we tend to overlook the fact that we are addressing major and complex problems that we confront when it comes to the issue of personnel within the Public Service. So I feel that as we try to deal with specific issues, we must note that that is within a broader framework. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: PROTECTED AREAS AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
ELECTORAL COMMISSIONERS
(Consideration of nominations for appointment in terms of section 6 of Electoral Commission Act, 1996)
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, the DA supports the appointment of the commissioners and wishes them well both for their terms of office and in the major task ahead of them, namely the local government elections.
In supporting the nominations, the DA would like to place on record that one of the elected commissioners indicated that he would not want to serve on the commission beyond the local government elections. While he will, no doubt, bring invaluable skills, expertise and continuity to the task at hand, it is unfortunate that the portfolio committee did not consider this candidate’s nomination more carefully, because 18 months down the line we will have to nominate another commissioner to replace him.
However, now that the immediate crisis is over, the DA hopes that the Department of Home Affairs will apply its mind more seriously to reviewing the legislation, and refrain from short-term crisis interventions like the urgent amendment to the Electoral Commission Act. Such interventions can impact on the independent functioning of the electoral commissioners. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART: Chair, we in the ACDP also have reservations regarding that particular nomination. Whilst we appreciate the need for continuity and are mindful of the particular nominee’s vast skills in government and legal drafting, he indicated that he would not want to serve on the commission “much beyond the next local government elections”.
The tenure of the commission is seven years. This is an important consideration that should have been borne in mind when the decision regarding suitable commissioners was taken. As has been pointed out, we will have to go through a full nomination process in terms of the Act when the commissioner resigns from the commission after the next local government elections, as he has indicated. However, that having been said, the ACDP will support the portfolio committee’s nominations for the electoral commissioners. I thank you.
Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson, firstly, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the task team on coming up with wonderful candidates; and, secondly, I want to congratulate those who are now appointed commissioners and the public on the role it has played.
One thing that we tried to avoid was to begin to politicise much of the work that is done by these commissioners. I think they are doing wonderful work. Even when we dealt with these issues in the portfolio committee, we made it very clear that we would not want to engage in a debate that would begin to question the work that is done by these commissioners.
Nevertheless, I think there is nothing wrong with the point that has been raised about one of the commissioners who said that he would not want to serve beyond the local government elections. The fact is that for the sake of continuity, I think it’s proper that we have to have these people, because when we have the local government elections, it will be good to have people with experience at the same time. But that does not really do away with the work that these people will have to do.
Obviously, the issue is that the commissioner should be allowed to do his work. All of us, if need be, will have to come back and appoint another commissioner, and there is nothing wrong with us doing that. As long as we have this Parliament, we will keep on doing that. On that note, I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Question put: That the nominations for the appointment of the following candidates as Electoral Commissioners be approved:
Bam, B; Mpumlwana, N F T; Tselane, T, and Van der Merwe, F.
AYES-267: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S
E; Asmal, A K; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bekker, H J; Benjamin, J;
Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B ; Bici, J; Bloem, D V; Blose, H M;
Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Booi, M S; Botha, C-S; Burgess, C V; Cachalia, I M;
Camerer, S M; Carrim, Y I; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chauke, H P;
Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Dambuza, B N;
Davidson, I O; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; De Lille, P; Diale, L N;
Didiza, A T; Dikgacwi, M M; Dipico, E M; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M;
Doman, W P; Dudley, C; Durr, K D S; Ellis, M J; Erwin, A; Farrow, S B;
Fihla, N B; Fraser-Moleketi, G J; Frolick, C T; Gabela, L S; Gcwabaza,
N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gibson, D H M; Gololo, C L; Goniwe, M
T; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M ; Gumede, M M; Gxowa, N B;
Hajaig, F; Hangana, N E; Harding, A ; Hendrickse, P; Hogan, B A;
Holomisa, B H; Huang, S; Jacobus, L ; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R;
Johnson, M; Joubert, L K; Kalako, M U; Kalyan, S V; Kasienyane, O R;
Kati, Z J; Kganyago, N M; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M;
Khumalo, M S; King, R J; Kohler-Barnard, D; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C;
Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lekgoro, M M S;
Lekota, M G P; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Lowe, C M; Lucas, E
J; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N ; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C;
Mabuyakhulu, D V; Madasa, Z L; Madlala-Routledge, N C; Magau, K R;
Magazi, M N; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M;
Mahomed, F; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Maloney, L;
Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manie, M S;
Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R;
Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masithela, N H; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M
H; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mbombo, N D; Mentor, M P;
Meshoe, K R J; Mfundisi, IS; Mgabadeli, H C; Minnie, K J; Mlangeni, A;
Mnandi, P N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnguni, B A; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L
J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M
R; Mokoena, A D; Mokoto, N R; Molefe, C T; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E;
Morobi, D M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N;
Moss, M I; Motubatse-Hounkpatin, S D; Mpaka, H M; Mpontshane, A M;
Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mufamadi, F S;
Mulder, C P; Mzondeki, M J G; Ndlovu, V B; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R A;
Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N
D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L;
Nhleko, N P ; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Njobe, M A A; Nkuna,
C; Nogumla, R Z; Nqakula, C; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli,
S B; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A;
Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phala, M
J; Phungula, J P; Pule, B E ; Rabie, P J; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T;
Rajbally, S; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M;
Ramphele, T D H; Rasmeni, S M; Saloojee, E; Sayedali-Shah, M R;
Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Sefularo, M; Semple, J A; Seremane, W
J; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau, Sylvia N;
Simmons, S; Sithole, D J; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Smith, P F;
Smith , V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M
M; Spies, W D; Stephens, M; Steyn, A C; Surty, M E; Swart, P S; Swart,
S N; Taljaard, R; Thabethe, E; Thomson, B; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J;
Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Turok, B; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van
der Merwe, S C; van der Walt, D; Van Wyk, Annelizé; Vezi, T E; Vundisa,
S S; Wang, Y; Waters, M; Weber, H; Woods, G G; Xingwana, L M ; Xolo, E
T; Zikalala, C N Z; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z ; Zulu, N E.
Question agreed to.
Nominations accordingly approved in accordance with section 6(2)(c) of the Electoral Commission Act, 1996.
UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION AGAINST CORRUPTION
(Consideration of request for approval by Parliament in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution)
Mr B MTHEMBU: Chairperson, hon members, the General Assembly of the United Nations, in its resolution 55/61 of December 2000, recognised that an effective international legal instrument against corruption that was independent of the UN Convention Against Transnational Organised Crime was desirable. It was then decided to establish an ad hoc committee for the negotiation of such an instrument. Over 120 states participated in the open- ended ad hoc committee. The ad hoc committee completed its work in 2003. On 31 October 2003, the General Assembly adopted the resultant convention unanimously.
To demonstrate their commitment to making the convention a reality, governments were urged to participate in a high-level political signing conference, which was held in Merida, Mexico in 2003. At that conference, the Minister of Public Service and Administration signed the UN Convention Against Corruption on behalf of the South African government.
However, for the convention to be operational, it is imperative, in terms of Article 67 of the convention, for all participating states to ratify it before 9 December 2005. As of August 2003, 105 states have signed the convention, and two states have ratified it.
The significance of the UN Convention Against Corruption is that it seeks to strengthen international co-operation in preventing and combating the transfer of funds of illicit origin and promoting ways and means to prevent it happening. Secondly, it seeks to develop the measures necessary to ensure that those working in financial institutions contribute to the prevention of the transfer of funds of illicit origin. Thirdly, it seeks to establish criteria for determining the appropriate countries to which funds should be returned and the appropriate procedures for such return.
The Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, having considered an in-depth comparative analysis of the provisions of the UN Convention Against Corruption within the South African framework, came to the following conclusion: Firstly, our legal framework is not only compliant with the provisions of the convention, but also goes beyond its requirements. Secondly, the South African government will be able to implement it without extra costs. The committee therefore recommends that the House, in terms of section 231 of the Constitution, approve the convention. Thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
United Nations Convention against Corruption approved.
BROAD-BASED BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT AS A TOOL TO BRING GREATER NUMBERS OF SOUTH AFRICANS INTO THE MAINSTREAM ECONOMY
(Subject for Discussion)
Dr E NKEM-ABONTA: Chairperson, anyone would know by now that black economic empowerment is only benefiting a handful of men, and immensely at that. As a tiny, but politically well-connected, rapacious black elite engages in legal plunder, carting away millions by the day, millions of hapless black people, still unemployed and destitute, watch bemused.
All they get is the promise that it will trickle down. It will not trickle down. The BEE Act does not contain any provisions that make broad-based empowerment ineluctable, nor do any of the empowerment charters for that matter. Thus, implementation has focused overly on asset ownership by a very few rich black men. It should, instead, focus on stimulating employment and enhancing black small-business development.
Clearly, policy interventions are required to make BEE benefits spread beyond the small circle of men, referred to by the Minister of Minerals and Energy as “the gentlemen of empowerment”. We should take deliberate measures to truly empower and uplift millions of our disadvantaged black people. We should help them start and successfully manage their own small businesses. We should help them by stimulating job creation. How? We should extend the BEE strategy to ensure that benefits are spread broadly.
Accordingly, the DA proposes extensions along the following six policy instruments spelt out in the DTI’s BEE strategy: legislation, regulation through scorecards, the restructuring of state-owned enterprises, preferential procurement by government, a BEE advisory council, and partnerships and charters. Specifically, the DA proposes that, firstly, government undertake a legislative review with the view to granting tax incentives and reducing payroll taxes - tax incentives for businesses that employ unemployed persons and for those that run learnership programmes.
Secondly, scorecard regulations should explicitly rule out any empowerment equity deals with black billionaires and millionaires, as well as re- empowerment of well-off beneficiaries who are certainly capable of fending for themselves. Instead, the scorecards should assign substantial weights to employee-share and community-enterprise ownership schemes.
Thirdly, government should accelerate the privatisation of state-owned enterprises and sell their shares to a broad base of black people. Fourthly, government procurement policies should reward large businesses that partner with black-owned small enterprises and set a time limit beyond which a benefiting black businessperson would cease to benefit from preferential procurement in order that another needy black businessperson may benefit.
Fifthly, government should appoint foreign investors and non-ANC members of unimpeachable integrity to the BEE advisory council to guard against cronyism. Sixthly, industry charters should set targets for the development of large small-business linkages. In addition, the DA proposes that government adopt the special exemption certificates, or Spex certificate programme.
Originally proposed by the Free Market Foundation, Spex would allow a person who has been unemployed for six months or longer to apply and receive a special exemption certificate. The certificate would grant the holder exemption from all labour legislation for a period of two years. It would also protect any employer, who hires the holder, from prosecution under our labour laws. [Interjections.]
By freeing the long-term unemployed to enter any form of employment agreement they wish, Spex empowers them, greatly enhancing their chances of securing employment. Note that for Spex to work, it is not necessary to change our labour laws, although doing so would greatly multiply the benefits, nor would Spex weaken the job security of existing employees. And, by making small businesses less averse to employing low-skill persons, small businesses that rely on low-skill labour could mushroom, firing growth.
Surely such a programme, along with the BEE reform measures proposed, would bring down the unemployment rates rapidly and dramatically, accelerate the economic growth rate and thus truly empower the masses of our people? Thank you, fellow hon members. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Deputy Speaker, I want to thank Mr Nkem-Abonta for his bright ideas, but I do think that millions of black people who are suffering and who are poor where he comes from do need him. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] And I do think that he should not have run away; he should have worked very hard to ensure that the whole of Africa was empowered. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Deputy Minister made a statement there which is quite clearly an example of xenophobia. [Interjections.] The country of origin of the hon member who has just spoken is of no consequence. We are all equal members of this House, whether that Deputy Minister likes it or not. [Interjections.] We have had rulings before about personal references to racial and other origins, and I ask you to tell the Deputy Minister to mend her ways. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will need to be advised there, because I listened to her and she never mentioned any country of origin. She referred to where the hon member came from. I thought that where he comes from is Cape Town. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I beg your pardon? [Applause.]
Hon Deputy Minister, will you please continue.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, it is not clear to me what your ruling was. Did you say you are reserving your ruling …
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I’m not reserving any ruling. I’m said that I did not heard her mention any country of origin. I’m under the impression that the hon member is a South African, and I thought that what the hon Deputy Minister was therefore saying was that South Africans need him and the whole of Africa. But if there is another interpretation of that, which is not what she said, we can then study the Hansard and come back and make a ruling.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, I ask you to study the Hansard, and not allow disingenuous explanations like that. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Speaker, thank you. I think the racist right-wing DA are the ones that are racist. The hon member stood here to talk about black men and the black masses. He did not mention the white millionaires and billionaires that enriched themselves by stealing our mineral wealth in this country … [Applause] … and by developing rich white cartels that are continuing even today to loot our diamonds and take them to London, that are continuing today to monopolise the mining industry.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Minister, I would like you to concentrate more on black economic empowerment. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is all about black economic empowerment. Most African mining countries have suffered from what is sometimes called the resource curse of the paradox of plenty. In one way or another, African countries have suffered for their resources.
You would recall the story of conflict diamonds. Many countries, such as Angola, Sierra Leone, Liberia and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, are tragically beset with this terrible paradox – that of enormous mineral wealth and devastating civil conflict. And we know very well who is selling the guns, who is making money out of all these conflicts.
South Africa did not come through the curse unscathed. I would venture to say that the whole apartheid policy was about an inability, or unwillingness, to share the spoils of our plentiful resources. In many cases, the exploiters of the same resources were unwilling to put a penny back into the communities in which they were mining.
How else can I explain that one of the poorest communities in South Africa today is adjacent to Kimberley, one of the mining areas that produced some of the finest diamonds in the world. One of the biggest diamonds, that was sent as a present to the Queen of England, came from this country.
We are saddled with ghost towns that simply died when the mining companies pulled out. We are saddled with billions of rands worth of environmental liabilities, mines that have nobody today to claim them. And it is the department, this government, that has to pay to rehabilitate those mines, that has to pay to ensure that the sick, who have been poisoned and have asbestosis and so on, are well cared for. It is these liabilities, in terms of which companies just upped and left unsightly and sometimes contaminated dumps, which we now have to rehabilitate.
Because of migrant labour laws, countless families were destabilised. Men would leave their homes and be expected to live in inhumane conditions in hostels that were provided by the mining companies. Because of being separated from their families for periods of up to one year, some took wives, some turned to prostitutes. Also, with the advent of HIV/Aids, the mineworkers were the first victims. In fact, at the XV International Aids Conference in Bangkok in July this year, the UN Aids director said that the spread of HIV and Aids in East and Southern Africa was mainly due to the unjust migrant labour system in those countries. However, it has been said that there is nothing inevitable about the resource curse. While facing this challenge of the plenty, if handled well, the mining sector can become a powerful contributor to the development of our country.
In avoiding the negative consequences I have already mentioned, the current government, when it came to power in April 1994, soon realised that the existing Minerals Act of 1991 was inadequate for serving the future needs of our country. The new government therefore decided that a thorough review of South Africa’s mineral legislation was needed, and the rationale for this review was based on the following main criteria.
Firstly, the majority of the population had been excluded from ownership and from participation in management for some hundred years before democracy finally became a reality in 1994.
Secondly, it was important for government to take the opportunity to revise and formulate a new mineral and mining policy that would be in line with new global trends and practices. Finally, the new policy had to be realigned with new policy developments that had taken place in other sectors as well, for example environment, labour, water affairs and the new Growth, Employment and Redistribution strategy, Gear.
No blacks in the past were allowed to own mines by law, you would remember. Even the Minerals Act of 1991, which was supposed to be more progressive, did not repeal the Mining Rights Act of 1967. It did not address the fact that blacks were only employed as labourers, housed in single-sex hostels, and only allowed to visit their families once a year. It was only in the mid-1980s that the first group of black professionals was employed on the mines, but they were subjected to the Group Areas Act and there were areas that they were not allowed, by their white counterparts, to participate in and go into. Women were allowed to work as professionals in the sector, but at that time there were no ablution facilities underground demarcated for women.
With regard to broad-based socio-economic empowerment in the mining sector, the rationale for this policy is as follows. The mining industry applied apartheid principles with no rights for blacks and women. They supported a system that displaced people and separated families, and actually broke down families in some cases. They made unsustainable settlements that left the residents poorer after the mining was finished. They took on able- bodied men and employed them for 20 years, yet these men remained unskilled after all those years. They housed men in single-sex quarters that encouraged sex-related diseases, including HIV and Aids.
The broad-based socio-economic empowerment charter’s goal is to create an industry that will proudly reflect the promise of a nonracial, nonsexist South Africa, with the shared vision of a globally competitive mining industry that draws on the human and financial resources of all of South Africa’s people, and that will offer real benefits to all South Africans.
The broad-based black economic empowerment programme is aimed at ensuring that empowerment reflects the transformation of South Africa, the transformation of the mining industry and also the transformation of the mineral landscape into what we have envisaged. It also ensures that meaningful and sustainable change in the ownership profile and equity of the mining sector become a reality, that there is improvement in the racial and gender composition and also that there is the provision of training and skills in the sector. In addition, it improves delivery in terms of employment equity on the mines.
The programme establishes development strategies with a special focus on host communities and major labour-sending areas. It encourages urban renewal in order to avoid ghost towns. The programme also encourages beneficiation, that is the production of mineral-based higher-value goods and job creation. And, we shall fight to ensure that our diamonds are no longer looted and taken to London, to Belgium – and that they are cut and polished here so that we can create thousands of jobs out of that industry. [Applause.]
Regarding the pillars of broad-based economic empowerment, whilst in the past mineworkers remained unskilled despite having worked for 20 years, in terms of the new policy the mining industries and government have agreed that they will pledge and facilitate the training of workers. In reality this means that unskilled workers that start working today can get into an Abet programme; they can get qualifications through the MQA, which is our Seta, and learnerships; they can get drilling certificates; and a miner can become a shift boss. There is absolutely nothing stopping him from climbing up the ranks to become a mine manager. You would remember that this was how some of our white managers of today got to their positions. With regards to employment equity, the mining industry started to employ black professionals in the mid-1980s. There were lots of young professionals who thought that by joining the industry they could have good careers. Unfortunately, this was not to be. The ceiling was that of senior geologist at best, a low-paying job on the mines.
Our charter ensures that there will be no ceiling for black people with the ability to move up. We have made sure that we are looking at participation at management levels. Now, if the cronies want to use these opportunities, they can, but they still have to have the relevant qualifications.
Regarding mine communities and rural development, unsustainable settlements left mine-hosting communities, like Galeshewe, Welkom and others, very poor. Rural areas, which depended on migrant labour, like the Transkei, Limpopo, the deep rural KwaZulu-Natal, were devastated when mineworkers stopped working owing to ill health or retrenchment.
The charter ensures that areas that supported the mining industry and provided able-bodied men should not die because these men are now suffering from typhus, TB or HIV/Aids. That is why we are insisting that these communities should be looked after, and we have worked with the mining industry to set up major agricultural projects in these areas. We are also looking into tourism as far as job opportunities and job creation go. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr T E VEZI: Madam Deputy Speaker, for the record let me mention that the IFP supports empowerment as a tool amongst other tools. However simple that may seem, it is difficult to agree on measures for impact. The IFP has never questioned the necessity of black empowerment or the good intentions of the government.
According to the Congress of Business and Economics, the BEE debate is raising many anxieties and misconceptions, and fear of the unknown is also creeping in among members of the organisation. Whether the perceptions are real or unreal, at the end of the day, they do raise concerns.
The IFP advocates the creation of a strong middle-class in order to bridge the gap. We also advocate that bigger businesses assist small ones. As pointed out, we support the BEE as a strategy aimed at substantially increasing black participation at all levels in the economy. However, we lament the fact that up to now, the concern has been that a black elite is being established. It is, however, debatable whether this can be avoided in a capitalist situation.
Owing to the time at my disposal, I cannot now go into detail in defining concepts like “black company” “black-powered company”, “black women-owned enterprise”, “community or black-based enterprise”, and “a co-operative” or “collective”, etc.
Given our economic legacy of monopoly and capitalism of the hegemony of big business, the cycle of exploitation is almost impossible to break. According to Business Day, black business has on occasion criticised the Act for not being prescriptive. It has been condemned by white business as another law being introduced, on top of numerous other laws, that business has to adhere to.
From the positive side, allow me to quote the Managing Director of Growth Africa in Business Day of 9 September 2004.
Notwithstanding all the misfortunes that have discredited empowerment,
it is our duty as the South African business community to learn from
these expensive lessons and find solutions to give impetus to the
intentions of empowerment policy makers.
It should, however, be borne in mind that even the road to hell is also paved with good intentions. It all starts with our motives, intent and attitude when approaching the empowerment challenge. The choice is ours.
As the IFP is the moral opposition, allow me to quote Dr Xolela Mangcu, executive director of the Steve Biko Foundation: The founders of modern economics saw the economy as a reflection of the social institutions and values of society. For a long time, the preferred term was the moral economy of nations. It is only much later that the term “political economy” came into currency.
Corrupt institutional networks will produce corrupt economic practices. If the political framework that we inherited rewards those who are politically connected, then those individuals will dominate the scene.
The fact that there may be shortcomings does not persuade the IFP to condemn BEE. If we did that we would then be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M STEPHENS: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, unfortunately BEE has, in the eyes of many, become associated with the high profile big business deals of the black nouveau riche. Although these deals employ millions of rands, they empower only the already powerful elite. They do little or nothing for the millions of South Africans languishing in poverty and unemployment.
Real BEE takes place at grassroots level. This is the level of Khula, Ntsika, Nemec and the National Empowerment Fund. While much improved delivery has yet to be achieved, such initiatives will prove to be the vehicles that transport great numbers of South Africans into the mainstream economy. Black economic empowerment not only empowers the previously disadvantaged, it will lift the whole South African economy and realise the awesome productive potential of this nation. A rise in tide lifts all boats. To the new liberal trickle-down enthusiasts we say, empower the poor directly and everybody benefits. Benefits rise through the economy, they do not trickle down. [Applause.]
Mr A HARDING: Madam Deputy Speaker, the focus of the BEE debate has been around deal-making and incorporating previously disadvantaged institutions into shareholding structures, hoping that those at the lower end of the scale will benefit.
This narrow perspective has seen few benefits and only leading BEE personalities have benefited largely. As a basis, giving the unemployed a decent sustainable job is the most basic form of empowerment. Few black South Africans have money of their own to buy into such equities. Almost every empowerment deal has been built on debt.
The banks made arrangements for these capitalists without capital by setting up SBVs and issuing shares with a life of three to five years. These shares are pledged as a security for loans used to buy them. This means that SBVs depend for their success on continually rising share prices and moderate interest rates.
In terms of the Expanded Public Works Programme, jobs created through labour and job creation strategies amount to 6 500 across nine sectors. Since the Growth and Development Summit Agreement in 2003, a total of 69 000 trainees have been through learnerships against a target set of almost 73 000. The target was missed by 5%, with the biggest shortfalls in the public service and defence Setas. By 2004, 666 learnership programmes had been registered with the Department of Labour.
Broad-based BEE means bringing SMMEs into the empowerment arena, and government agencies are responsible for providing financial support. However, the dismal performance by Ntsika, largely due to internal structural and capacity failures, has crippled government’s attempts to support SMMEs.
Khula’s record is equally unimpressive. Its problems relate mainly to poorly targeted products, inefficient managerial systems and inadequate mentoring to businesses. At another level, government has also largely failed to provide enough tenders to SMMEs, and the pitfalls in SMMEs in this arena, I think, justify another debate.
The recent announcement by DTI that Ntsika will merge with the Nemecs to form government’s new small business SBDA is another evolution of how to adequately support SMMEs and broad-based BEE. The NEF ought to be the flagship for spreading economic ownership to PDIs. Facilitating BEE savings and improving accessibility to finance by BEE groups ought to be its major drivers, yet it is too embroiled in mismanagement charges. As a result, we only see mega deals being done by a few prominent black businessmen driven by charter processes in particular sectors. If this current trend continues, we will concentrate wealth in a few black hands, thereby defeating the objectives of this legislation. [Time expired.]
Adv Z L MADASA: For the BEE strategy to be truly successful, it must not only create new black business, but must also address the major challenges facing our country, namely poverty and unemployment. We must remember that not all black people are potential businesspersons. Black economic empowerment must not just exist on paper, but in reality as well.
True BEE must address the real needs of the economy, namely quality and relevant education for all black children, and proper training and equipping of workers in order to enable them to participate in the new economy that is driven by technology and information.
The recent revelation by surveys that most black matriculants, compared to other races, are not getting employed is a cause for concern. There will be no BEE in future if black students are not getting quality education.
The new leadership of the ANC Youth League should focus its attention on youth, education and training matters, and stop being rude to black leaders who are in business. The ANC must make those young men focus. [Interjections.]
Government departments must also do their part to promote BEE. Departments must pay black business on time for procured services. Many businesses close down because departments pay them very late.
Many upcoming black businesses need training on financial management and support. Many upcoming black businesses take loans from the banks to cover overheads based on security of tenders, but late payments by departments in particular is undermining these difficult endeavours by these upcoming black businesses.
So, I call upon government departments to devise an interdepartmental strategy to ensure early payment for services procured from BEE businesses. That is one of the ways that will ensure sustainable black businesses. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B A D MARTINS: Hon Deputy Chairperson and esteemed hon members, South Africa’s history of systematic discrimination against the majority of the population and the looting and stripping of their asset base requires special measures to address the historical legacy of apartheid economic policies and of apartheid educational policies, which have placed black people at a fundamental disadvantage.
Broad-based black economic empowerment provides a historic bridge between the past of a deeply divided society characterised by exploitation, strife, conflict and injustice and a future founded on the recognition of the economic potential and development of all South Africans. Broad-based black economic empowerment, therefore, properly conceived, is a process aimed at community empowerment in both urban and rural areas, redressing the imbalances in the ownership and control of South Africa’s economic resources by increasing black - that is, African, Coloured and Indian - participation at all levels of the economy.
Hence broad-based BEE focuses not only on business ownership and equity, but also on human resource development, skills development and participation in management. As such, broad-based BEE aims to further promote entrepreneurship and to provide market and business access and opportunities to black enterprises.
The financing of black, small and emerging entrepreneurs and access to skills by these entrepreneurs is thus strategically important for the economy in general, and BEE in particular.
Broad-based black economic empowerment will thus not have the desired effect if it does not include a credible financing component, and effective skills development programmes. Historically, South African financial institutions have been characterised by a systematic failure to meet the needs of low-income communities, including petit bourgeois black business.
Commercial banks have had a low level of outreach and service provision in poor rural areas and small towns. Even where there are banks, they are mostly clustered in towns that only partially serve the rural areas.
Against this background, it is clear that we have to ensure that adequate financing of broad-based BEE takes place within the parameters of the existing macroeconomic and microeconomic reform strategies.
Broad-based black economic empowerment is then about increasing the numbers of black people who assume the risk to use their material and intellectual resources, not only for purposes of immediate consumption, but also to create additional wealth through the productive investment of these resources.
To date, greater numbers of black people are becoming professionals, managers and technicians. Laws have been passed and funds made available for black people to own businesses as one aspect of broad-based BEE.
Broad-based black economic empowerment remains a pivotal element of government policy. Accordingly, government has allocated R1 billion rand for BEE during the current fiscal year, and R10 billion is provided for the next five years.
The governments’ vision is supported by, amongst others, the following six strategic thrusts: firstly, promoting entrepreneurship vigorously; secondly, unlocking potential through a better business environment and promoting more competitive small businesses; thirdly, creating an enabling environment for small enterprises which reduces the disparities between urban and rural businesses and which is conducive to entrepreneurship; fourthly, promoting the development of economically sustainable small, medium and micro enterprises that will significantly contribute to South Africa’s general economic growth; fifthly, increasing the number and variety of small, medium and micro enterprises operating in the formal economy; and, sixthly, increasing the competitiveness of small enterprises so that they are better able to take advantage of opportunities emerging in local, district, provincial, national and international markets.
As with other development programmes, the broad-based BEE process also focuses on the challenge of the empowerment of women, people with disabilities and the youth. At the core of the government’s response to all these challenges is the struggle against poverty and underdevelopment, which is underpinned by the ANC’s peoples contract to create work and fight poverty.
Continued and determined government intervention, in conjunction with private investment from the patriotic South African bourgeois, will hopefully assist the underdeveloped economic sector to create the environment where private enterprise will seek economic opportunities which will increase employment and incomes. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr W D SPIES: Hon Chair, the FF Plus believes that the concept of empowerment defined and measured along racial lines serves no purpose but to further divide the population. Our economy is highly centralised and dominated by a few individuals who are often driven in their decision- making by only one goal, namely, profit.
In their drive for profit, the interests of the people and the environment of the local communities within which these enterprises function are often neglected. To substitute these few individuals who happen to be white with a few other individuals who happen to be black will not solve the current problem of wealth being concentrated in hands of only a handful of people.
The FF Plus therefore supports the ideal of the empowerment of local communities as opposed to the empowerment of racial groups. For communities to become empowered economically, they should also be empowered politically to ensure that decisions are taken at the lowest possible level.
A centralised economic dispensation cannot be rectified while the political dispensation remains even more centralised. By empowering local communities, we can once again allow the brightest people in all of these communities to build new business on new ideas in a way that serves their people and the environment.
Let us take on this challenge, or else we might just realise that redistribution of wealth had led to nothing more than a redistribution of poverty. I thank you.
Mr N T GODI: Thank you, Chairperson. The fact that we are having this debate 10 years down the line is in itself a measure of the extent to which we have not been able to make any progress in terms of the democratisation of the economic environment for the African people.
Change cannot only be at the political superstructure whilst the economic base is left intact. It is important to note that when we attained our liberation in 1994, we inherited one of the most unequal societies in the world in terms of ownership and consumption patterns, where we indeed had a two-nation setup: one white, rich and in position as employers, and the other African, poor and in position as employees.
The response of the majority to the challenges facing our country has been to make the necessary space, the necessary compromises to ensure that we are able to move forward. But, the requisite response from those who owned capital, especially from the white community, has thus far been not to give an inch unless they are forced to.
The exemplification of the resistance to change is such that despite the fact that we have the Employment Equity Act, up to now, 99% of the employers are not complying with that Act. Even with the one per cent that has complied in terms of plans to transform the workplace, we find that it is only on procedural matters and not on substantive aspects.
We know that about 80% of the managerial posts in the country are still in the hands of whites, and it is just inconceivable that we can say that beyond these 10 years Africans will continue to be garden boys and maids and developed as servants of the white community.
When we attained our liberation in 1994, there was a strong lobby for a minimalist state with the belief that the focus on economic growth will lead to a trickle-down effect. But, 10 years down the line, we know it has only lead to a trickle-up, making those who were rich richer and those who were poor poorer.
The PAC believes that BEE is not only a fundamental fulfilment of the fundamental material basis of our liberation struggle, but an assurance and guarantee of social stability in our country. Thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Black economic empowerment has been a sure way of changing the apartheid-moulded economy of South Africa into the democracy we have today.
The MF feels that BEE is not in motion to force a black representative market, but to allow for such black-managed companies that have great potential and have what it takes to assist in building South Africa into a strong competitor in the global market. Our economy represents us as a nation, and the MF takes pride in having an economy that represents its diversity as a nation.
Government has put many provisions in place to ensure the upliftment and liberation of all South Africans. In this equal and fair state, our people need to mobilise themselves. The MF feels that we need to broaden the scope of BEE to include schools, so as to ensure a diverse economy and opportunity for all our future leaders.
However, the broadening of BEE should not be in place to sideline minorities. Our economy needs to be built from the best. And where the potential and strength for a promising economy comes from, we need to indulge in it. And even though we need to diversify our economy, we need not take 10 steps back to do so. I thank you.
Mr Y I CARRIM: Madam Deputy Chairperson, comrades and friends, here we have the hypocrisy once again. The party that supports an unfettered free market and rampant individualism is lecturing to us about empowering not individuals but collective groups - groups that they do not represent or even understand.
Just recently, three months ago, such groups tellingly rejected them at the polls. Why? Because they have faith in their tried and tested organisation, the ANC. It is this organisation, after all, that long ago made it very clear in the Freedom Charter that liberation from apartheid meant not just political freedom, but social and economic emancipation too.
This approach was developed at the Morogoro Conference, in Kabwe, and was developed further when we were unbanned in 1990 and at the subsequent conferences we had there. It was spelt out, too, in the RDP and in many policies and laws adopted in this Parliament since 1994. The ANC’s approach to broad-based BEE has to be understood in the context of the current phase we are in in the unfolding national democratic transition. It is a broad, multiclass national project.
The ANC seeks to advance, unapologetically, the interests of all classes and strata of our people, even if we are primarily concerned with the poor. And, yes, part of this project entails the fostering of a black bourgeois but not, we must stress, at the expense of empowering and advancing the poor. These are not mutually exclusive goals, but are part of one overall national project in the current phase we find ourselves in, that is the unfolding transition.
Let me quote what the ANC had to say in Stellenbosch under ``resolves on black economic empowerment’’, and the DA, in particular, but perhaps also the ID, should take note. It says:
Black economic empowerment is a moral, political, social and economic
requirement of the country’s collective future. BEE is defined in its
broadest sense as an integrated and coherent socio-economic process
located in the context of the RDP. Its benefits…
Please note, all opposition parties -
... must be shared across society, and impact as widely as possible.
It goes on to say that:
To ensure that BEE is broad-based, supportive of collective ownership
programmes…
And what does the DA know about this?
... by working people and communities, in the form of collective
enterprises and co-operatives, supportive of the creation of an
entrepreneurial class, the accumulation of assets by the poor and with
a focus on the development of rural economies …
Where indeed is the DA‘s base in the rural economies?
Let me add that the ANC goes on to say that they will mobilise their membership, communities in general and targeted groups in particular - women, institutions working with children, people with disabilities, the youth and the elderly - to take up the BEE opportunities and to participate in the debate.
Let’s be very clear. That is the policy of the majority party. If that policy is not being implemented by the executive, then it is for this Parliament - the majority in this Parliament - and the ANC in particular, to hold the executive to account as to what was decided in Stellenbosch, while recognising that what was decided at these conferences have to be translated into law and policies, and that some nuance of change, not in values, strategies or orientation, should take effect.
Yes, we admit that BEE has not always worked the way it should, and that the focus at times has been too much on the enrichment of a few rather than the empowerment of the many. [Interjections.] But, who is to blame for this? The captains of industry are mainly to blame. Their narrow and cynical approach to BEE is their way of avoiding substantive transformation.
The DA likes to criticise the ANC and our deployment policy for narrow interpretations of BEE. The truth, however, is that most of the high- profile BEE deals have never been discussed in any ANC structure whatsoever. They have much more to do with the opportunistic calculation and the so-called deployment policies, if you like, of the white captains of industry. In fact, this is what peeves the DA the most, that the constituency they aspire to represent, corporate white South Africa, is not interested in approaching the small, marginal party we have here. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA: Order!
Mr Y I CARRIM: No! No! No! What do they seek to do? They seek to influence the majority party, it is true, by influencing people through boardroom shuffles. What is the problem with the DA? They hope to get the white business community behind them to raise funds and so on. [Interjections.] But the white business community is not interested. They have a presidential working group with our President. They reach out to the ANC.
What is the role of the DA? Let us be very clear. Why doesn’t the DA focus on the fronting? Why does the DA not ease the anxieties of the minority communities in this country about BEE? That is their role. We admit that there have been weaknesses. Precisely because of these weaknesses the ANC, not the DA, proposed the notion, over the past two years or more, that we should have broad-based BEE. That is not the notion of anybody else, but the ANC. The aim is not to leave BEE to the market to implement, but for the state to give direction and cohesion. The aim is to ensure that BEE is indeed broad-based and benefits all classes and strata of the black people.
In fact, look at the Act… [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (C-S Botha): Order, hon members! Please give the speaker an opportunity to make his case. [Interjections.]
Mr Y I CARRIM: No, no, no! Let me reply to the many things that Mr Nkem- Abonta said. And basically, it does not matter where he was born. What we have a problem with is his ideas. In that sense, we want to know whether he was born on this planet. That is the issue. He has no sensitivity to what is happening in this country. Whether he was born elsewhere is irrelevant. [Interjections.]
What we want to say, moreover, is that we should look at BEE in the context of the overall legislation. Look at the wonderful laws we have passed to empower black people in general and disadvantaged people in general. Look, for example, at what my Comrade Ben Martins had to say. His was a very coherent account of what has been done in his portfolio. Look at the Employment Equity Act, the Preferential Procurement Act, the Competition Act, the National Empowerment Fund Act, and so on. There are many more things to say. [Interjections.]
For example, when we talk about BEE, what about – they are acutely insomniac when they recount what happened during the past 10 years, partly because they are not in touch – the various other forms of black economic empowerment? What about the IPOs? What about employment share options, and so on? In fact, some concrete proposals did emerge from other parties including, for example, from Adv Madasa. Most of what you said is in the legislation anyway, Mr Madasa.
On the one out of the six proposals that the DA has offered so far, I would say, yes, I think the appropriate people should look into what tax incentives can be offered in the case of fostering BEE. But ultimately - we are very clear on this - it is not about simply changing the complexion of the owners and the managers of the economy; it is about sensibly, sensitively and collectively changing the structure of the economy over time. It is about evolving a new set of progressive values and ensuring inequality reducing economic growth.
We also asked whether it is appropriate that these old order structures of the company laws are the vehicles for BEE. Should we not be looking at alternative, progressive things like co-operatives and so on, which the legislation provides for?
What was on the cards not so long ago was the nationalisation of key sectors of the economy and a radical rupture with capitalism. This has not happened. So, let us not pussyfoot about it. Let us all - Parliament, government the private sector, the unions and civil society - work towards meaningful broad-based black economic empowerment. And the DA can also play a role by easing the undue anxieties we stressed of sections of the white business about broad-based black economic empowerment. [Interjections.] Now, instead, what do they do? They increase these anxieties. They forget that we have a structural legacy of apartheid with the most acute income inequalities in the world.
There is no way we can address the problems of this country without black economic empowerment in the general sense. And it is in the interest of the private sector, the white captains of industry no less, to ensure stability and prosperity in this country. If we do not empower the masses of our people, five to six years down the road all of us in this House, regardless of the party we come from, will have to bear the consequences.
What does the DA say? They say that black people are poor essentially because of the wealth of the black elite. This is patent nonsense. It is a way of avoiding confronting the legacy of apartheid and the failures of the market that the DA so blindingly champions. We need to develop the productive forces. That’s what the ANC says. And if we have to develop those productive forces, it means that the emerging black middle-classes will have to play an appropriate role, but not at the expense of other classes and other strata of our people.
Mr Nkem-Abonta says that the trickle-down from black economic empowerment is not taking place. Yet he supports the trickle down based on a market philosophy that has failed dismally in reaching out to the poor. He talks of unconditional privatisation, yet he is opposed to the emergence of a black middle-class.
Our differences ultimately with the DA are not just ideological, strategic or programmatic; they are about what is common sense. The problem with the DA is that it does not have a common touch, nor is it sensible.
Therefore it is forever doomed to being the marginal party it is. And quite frankly, what I would like to ask the House Chairperson is: Why has the DA put this issue up for discussion today? They have offered nothing new. I thought that if Mark Lowe had something useful to say, we should have this debate. Can’t we have a set of criteria that says, unless you can prove that you have something useful to say, please do not bring these debates here. They are a waste of time! [Laughter.]
No doubt Mr Mark Lowe, who is going to speak last, is going to misinterpret much of what I said. [Interjections.] That is partly because he has a prepared speech and he will tweak that prepared speech to respond to the sort of things Ben, the Deputy Minister and I have said. But the fact of the matter is that Mark Lowe must explain to us in his five minutes why he suggested this topic for discussion when neither he, presumably, nor his colleagues had anything new to say. It’s a most unproductive use of the taxpayer’s money. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr C M LOWE: Chairperson, I am very sorry that the ANC speakers, including a Deputy Minister, have chosen to treat this important topic with such carelessness and contempt. The reason we raised it, hon Cassim, is because we believe that there is something seriously wrong with black economic empowerment that needs addressing. You have run away from the debate this afternoon, Sir, and the rows and rows of empty seats in the government benches bears testimony to just how unimportant you think this topic is. [Interjections.]
Last year, the DA opposed broad-based black economic empowerment because we did not believe that is was a genuine effort to transform our economy and empower the millions of South Africans excluded by apartheid. At its heart, the Bill failed to tackle unemployment, poverty and inadequate education. It failed the many and it rewarded the few. We remain so convinced.
Commentators from the across the spectrum have agreed that BEE is a mess, with the chosen sons of the ANC at the trough, versus the millions on welfare and social grants and in the unemployment queues. As Rhoda Kadalie asked in her business column entitled “Just a nuance away from smash and grab looting” -
How do some board members and senior executives involved in a
corporation or some state institutions constituted by an Act of
Parliament and financed by the state, amass this kind of wealth within
such a short period of time and presumably pay taxes?
Any credible broad-based black economic empowerment strategy must focus on job creation and entrepreneurship as its key measurables if it is to make any difference to the lives of those millions of South Africans excluded by the past. Broad-based BEE is important, necessary and desirable, and deracialising ownership of large listed companies is welcomed, but it is no substitute for large broad-based empowerment which must address the urgent needs of ordinary people at grass-roots level, something the ANC speakers this afternoon have all but forgotten about.
In the year since that BEE debate, the jobless queue has not dropped below eight million, while millions and sometimes billions of rands have been transferred in the blink of an eye to a lucky, well- connected few. The vast majority of South Africans are as marginalised as ever.
Black economic empowerment has also seen manipulation and abuse by powerful, well-connected front men. Many of this new generation of robber barons have not been black, and Christine Qunta is correct in pointing out that it is wrong to differentiate between black and white billionaires. But she fails to criticise a strategy that ignores individual risk and simply advances and rewards a small elite, while the broad mass of people in whose very name the system is being driven continue to starve. That form of wealth distribution, Deputy Minister, if you are listening, is obscene. And whether you call it legal plunder or “smash and grab looting”, urgent reforms are needed to turn wealth distribution into wealth and job creation.
Moeletsi Mbeki, Deputy Chairman of the SA Institute of International Affairs, agrees. He says that black economic empowerment takes the brightest black people, and instead of devoting their energies to creating new companies, new products and providing and creating employment, they spend their time looking for redistribution mechanisms to get shares in pre- existing companies. This creates instability and builds resentment.
Of course, it is acceptable for black people to work hard to build wealth and create empires, just as it is acceptable for anyone else, but we must move away from a narrow focus of just transferring equity and target job creation and enhancing black small business development.
Legislation should encourage small business employers to create jobs and to share skills and wealth, not to build up resentment by forcing them to give away the equity that they have built up over decades.
Along with the proper enforcement of the basic health and safety rights of workers, we need simplified labour laws to encourage and not to discourage the employment of people because, you see, labour legislation is not the only fact inhibiting job creation and trade opportunities. Last week’s World Bank report again confirms that South Africa’s labour laws restrict businesses and curtail employment and economic empowerment.
Only innovative programmes, as my colleague has already pointed out, like the Free Market Foundation’s Special Exemption Certificate programme - that puts entrepreneurship and opportunities, skills development and job creation at the very heart of BEE and at the very heart of our Presidency and our Cabinet - will truly transform our economy and empower our people.
The ANC speakers this afternoon might like to take cognisance of the fact that until we stop just beating about the bush, talking hot air and pretending that all is well out there, until we start to empower the very many in our society and not just worry about the very few, black economic empowerment will remain a shortcut to riches for those who need it the very least, and remain a mirage for the majority who have been promised so much, yet have received so little. Thank you. [Applause.]
PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT
(Debate)
Ms K R MAGAU: Motlatsi wa modulasetulo, maloko a hlomphehang, ke a leboha. Ke rata ho nka monyetla ona ho leboha sebaka sena sa ho phethisa thomo ya komiti ya dikamano le dinaha tse ka ntle, ho tla anehela Ntlo ena ka dintshetsopele tse ntseng di tswela pele palamenteng ya kontinente, e leng Pan African Parliament, ka Sekgowa.
Ke boele hape ke nke monyetla ona ho amohela barumuwa ba dinaha tsa Afrika naheng ena ya rona, bao e leng ditho tsa palamente ya Afrika, ha ele mona letsatsi ka mora mona, ba tla be ba kopane mane Midrand motseng wa Gauteng, ho tla buisana ka ntshetsopele ya kontinente. (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)
[Ms K R MAGAU: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson, hon members. I would like to take this opportunity, to take up the mandate given by the International Relations Committee, to address this House in English on developments that are taking place at the continent’s parliament, known as the Pan-African Parliament.
I also take this opportunity to welcome in our country the delegates from the African countries, who are members of the African parliament, as they will meet tomorrow at Midrand in Gauteng to discuss developments on the continent.]
The Constitutive Act of the African Union, adopted by the Assembly of Heads of State at its 36th Ordinary Session in Togo in July 2000, gave concrete expression to the common vision of a united, integrated and strong Africa. This ordinary session of the heads of state also noted that the establishment of one of the organs of the AU, namely the African Parliament, is informed by a vision to provide a common platform for African people and their grassroots organisations to be more involved in discussion and decision-making with regard to problems and challenges facing the continent.
The purpose of this deliberation is to give a report on developments in the Pan-African Parliament which, as a country, we were very instrumental in establishing. I therefore believe that it will be appropriate to mention a few of PAP’s objectives as informed by the vision and as stated in Article 3 of the Protocol to the Treaty establishing the African Economic Community, relating to the Pan-African Parliament.
The PAP is an integral part of the African vision. Therefore, one of its objectives is to facilitate the implementation of the AU’s policies and to advance the African agenda of 1963, which is to unite the continent. The unity referred to must be characterised by representivity and democratic processes. The African agenda is therefore nothing else but an agenda defined by Africans themselves for the development of their own continent.
The second objective is the promotion of the principles of human rights. For a long time, among the continents of the world, the African continent has not had a good record in the promotion of human rights. The time is here for Africa to put human rights at the top of the agenda through institutions such as the PAP.
The third objective is the encouragement of good governance, transparency and accountability. This, then, means that member states in the PAP must be in a position to do this at the level of national parliaments before they can start doing so in the continental parliament. It is in instances such as these that the Nepad peer review mechanism plays a vital and critical role.
The PAP is for the promotion of peace, security and stability. These are, therefore, the ingredients for prosperity and development. It is therefore key that the PAP, through peaceful and healthy deliberation in its gatherings, must and should strive for the maintenance and promotion of security and stability on the continent.
Based on the understanding and commitment to these objectives, a continental parliament for the African Union was inaugurated in Addis Ababa on 18 March 2004. Two hundred and two legislators from 41 out of 53 member states of the AU were sworn in. In accordance with the legislative framework establishing the PAP, it is a prerequisite that at least one of the five members proposed by each country must be a woman. It is very pleasing, therefore, to note that several of the countries, including South Africa, chose two or more women as representatives. Therefore, it must be mentioned that this is the actualisation of the fifth key idea of the vision of the AU, which states that policies and strategies to be implemented would have no meaning unless they were human-centred. Human- centredness in this instance means humans - of whom 50% are women - who must, in all circumstances, be both actors in and beneficiaries of the structural changes engendered by development.
On the other hand, development should enable humans to accept their identities and conditions rather than fall victims to them, which was the case in Africa during colonial rule and oppression.
According to Article 11 of the protocol, the PAP also has the following powers and functions:
The PAP shall be vested with legislative powers defined by the Assembly and, among other things, it will examine, discuss and express opinion on any matter either on its own initiative or at the request of the Assembly or any other policy organ of the African Union, and make recommendations as it may deem fit relating to matters in respect of human rights, consolidation of democratic institutions as well as promotion of good governance and the rule of law.
Article 12 of the protocol also provides for the adoption of the rules of procedure on the basis of a two-thirds majority. Draft rules of procedure have been put before the committee, and amendments were made where necessary, for example, putting into perspective and context certain words and phrases. Of great concern to the committee, as well as to the delegates who were part of the rules committee, is Rule 25(7)(6), which states:
The proceedings of the committee shall be held in public. However, the committee may decide to hold closed meetings.
It is this decision that the committee may decide to have closed meetings that is of great concern to us. South Africa would have preferred the version:
For public committee meetings, with closed meetings held under exceptional circumstances.
This, we believe, would be in line with the principles of democracy – that of transparency, openness, public access and accountability. As far as this rule is concerned, the PAP rules committee could not reach consensus, and has thus decided to refer the two proposals to the plenary for decision. The plenary will be taking place in Midrand some time this week.
As far as we are concerned, we trust that our delegates will be in a position to lobby as much support as they can to ensure that, at the end, democracy becomes a winner.
Ha ke diela dikgala, ke nnete mosebetsi o se o entswe, e leng wa ho bea, kapa ho hlopha dintho ka manane, jwaloka ho etsa yona melawana e tla tsamaisa palamente ena ya kontinente. Re le naha re thabela le ho thoholetsa qeto ya kontinente ya ho re tshepela hoba lehae la ntlo ena ya ketsamelao. Nnete ke hore mosebetsi o moholo o sa ntse o tjamelane le rona.
Wa pele, ke ho netefatsa le ho bontsha dikontinente tse ding tsa lefatshe, tse re nyenyefatsang ebile di re shebela tlase, hore re na le bokgoni bo ka fetang ba bona, ho ntshetsa pele le ho ntlafatsa kontinente ena rona. Wa bobedi ke ho dula re hopola kamehla hore kopano ke matla. Ha re kopane, ka kgopolo e lenngwe, le tjhebelopele e le nngwe, re sebeletsa kgotso, tshireletso, le botsitso, kahara kontinente, kontinente ena ya rona eka ba kontinente e ruileng ka ho fetisisa.
Mafu a kang HIV, tshotleho kapa bona bofuma ba maAfrika, e kaba le toro le tshomo. Ke a leboha. (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)
[In conclusion, it is true that work has been done, like putting in place laws that will control this continental parliament. As a country we rejoice and welcome the decision of the continent to trust us to be home to this house of legislation. The truth is that we are still facing a lot of work.
Firstly, it is to ensure and show other continents of the world that are looking down upon us that we have more ability than they have to develop and improve our continent. The second one is to remember on a daily basis that unity is strength. When we are united with one idea, one vision, striving for peace and security within the continent, our continent can be the richest ever. Diseases like HIV, suffering or poverty of Africans, can become history. Thank you.]
Mr W J SEREMANE: Mme Sebui, Maloko a a tlotlegang, le wena kgaitsedi ke a go lebogela go re gopotsa gore ntwakgolo ke ya molomo. [Madam Speaker, hon members, I would like to thank our sister for reminding us that it is better to resolve disputes through negotiations rather than fighting.]
It is gratifying to reflect on the vision of the Pan-African Parliament, and neatly describe it as an achievement whose moment has irrevocably arrived. It didn’t come overnight and easily, but through decades of deliberations, debate and relentless toil, by adhering to Pan-Africanism, which seeks unity, stability, development and freedom on the continent of Africa. It is therefore proper and fitting to mark the opening of the second ordinary session of the Pan-African Parliament in two day’s time at Gallagher Estate, Midrand, as a historic occasion in both South Africa’s and Africa’s history. We are not unmindful of the difficulties, technical and financial hitches that abound, and that will indeed manifest themselves singularly and collectively as challenges to be faced and overcome.
The success of the Pan-African Parliament will depend less on rhetoric and the usual political fire and brimstone pronouncements, and more on how true to the letter and spirit the protocols are upheld and adhered to, including the inspiring ideals of promoting democracy, human dignity, economic development and human security in the African states and on the continent itself. The Pan-African Parliament, on the basis of these imperatives, must ensure that the body is inclusive and reflects truly the diverse political positions of all parties in parliaments of the member states.
It is a travesty that democratic processes were manipulated by the majority party in this Parliament, thus excluding the main official opposition, the Democratic Alliance, and even the long-standing proponents of Pan- Africanism – of course the PAC can speak for themselves. The majority party did not stick to the rules and tenets of democratic processes and enhance the integrity of the Pan-African Parliament. It is not very helpful to have tomes and tomes of worthy and high-sounding documents which are contradicted by practice and application. For instance, we cannot turn a blind eye or deaf ear to the blatant violation of human, women’s and children’s rights.
Talking about of women’s rights or gender rights, it is also appropriate in this debate to congratulate Madam Gertrude Mongella on ascending to and assuming the challenging responsibilities as the President of the Pan- African Parliament. We in the DA also note the statement sketching out her understanding of her responsibilities and expectations. Her passion that the Pan-African Parliament, I quote, “should be judged by African standards” is legitimate. Equally true is the fact that Africa cannot live like an island unto itself. Africa must impact positively on human affairs and, much the same way, she should not be impervious to positive messages emanating from outside her own geographic location.
Without making the hon Madam Mongella the subject of this debate, I wish to quote her again on the subject of opposition parties. In the context of opposition in a democratic framework, the Pan-African Parliament, and I quote, “… will be very careful about allowing opposition parties from individual member states to pursue their agendas”. True impartiality and even-handedness should extend that caution to all and sundry, opposition parties and the ruling parties, lest we betray a tendency of witch-hunting and demonising the voice of legitimate dissent, cardinal to freedom of expression, belief and association.
Africa must speak. Africa is challenged to listen to and tolerate different viewpoints in its debates and dialogue. The Pan-African Parliament has a big challenge, amongst others, to nurture and sustain democracy and the inalienable fundamental rights of all. These rights are sacrosanct and indivisible. The Pan-African Parliament is a worthy achievement of the African Union. In refreshing our collective memory, it needs to be said that the PAP was established with the following objectives, that is: to facilitate the effective implementation of the policies and objectives of the African Union; to promote the principles of human rights and democracy in Africa; to encourage good governance, transparency and accountability in member states; to promote peace, security and stability; to contribute to a more prosperous future for the peoples of Africa by promoting collective and self-reliance and economic recovery; to facilitate co-operation and development in Africa; to strengthen continental solidarity and build a sense of common destiny among peoples of Africa, not divisions; and to facilitate co-operation among regional economic communities and their parliamentary forums.
The area that also needs attention is communication and information dissemination. The Pan-African Parliament has to communicate and publicise its work. This can only be done successfully when member states themselves take up that responsibility to inform and publicise the PAP at all levels of their different areas of jurisdiction. For instance, road shows highlighting the institution PAP and its work should be the norm rather than a once-in-a-while, once-off event.
Last but not least, I would also like to briefly refer to PAP member states’ commitments and obligations. I think and strongly believe that member states should, by all means, meet their membership dues, so that they don’t get to be the burden of others who are willing to do that. Member states should be truthful and true to treaties and protocols of the institutions of the African Union, the Pan-African Parliament, etc. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr L K JOUBERT: Chairperson, hon members, it is a privilege to address this House on the historic day on which we inaugurated the People’s Mace.
Sihlalo, angazi ukuthi ekhaya ngizowuphedula kanjani umbuzo wokuthi sibe malini isagila esihlobise kangaka. [Uhleko.] [Chairperson, when I get back home, I do not know what answer am I going to give as to how much was expended on such a well-decorated Mace. [Laughter.]]
The 21st century has been named the African century, and the IFP welcomes the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament with great excitement. We are especially proud of the fact that South Africa is the seat of the Pan- African Parliament. As far as the venue is concerned, hon members will be interested to know that Ulundi was considered, but they unfortunately lost out to Gallagher Estate. I hear the hon member here laughing, but the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs - that’s the new Deputy Minister, not the permanent Deputy Minister - personally told me that. The venue, of course, is only chosen for a five-year period, and we look forward with anticipation to it being reconsidered in the future.
We are keenly aware of the challenges that face our continent, and it is with great expectation that we have noted a new sense of urgency in recognition, in most member countries, that the current state of affairs is not optimal. We trust that the exercise of the Pan-African Parliament will assist the African spirit to triumph over poverty and adversity. Although still in its infancy, we already note positive results even locally. For example, the fact that we, South Africa, are in such a minority in the Pan- African Parliament will hopefully make ANC members appreciate what it is like to be an opposition member in a parliament where one faces an overwhelming majority. Our very best wishes accompany our delegates to the Pan-African Parliament. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B H HOLOMISA: Chairperson and hon members, we support South Africa’s participation in and hosting of the Pan-African Parliament. Those representing South Africa in the PAP must realise that they represent this Parliament as a whole and, thus, put aside their political and ideological differences. If our representatives do not co-operate as South Africans, but speak from their political turfs, the interests of South Africa will not be served. Even though we were at the vanguard of establishing the PAP, disjointed representation therefore would mean that we might as well be represented in a “ pap and vleis ” feast instead of at the PAP.
The rules governing the PAP still have to be lobbied with other participating countries to determine how the PAP will operate. However, judging from the foreign affairs Committee’s briefings, it seems that there is already much consensus. The PAP must become a voice of the people of the continent. If it becomes just another talk shop, we are guilty of failing Africa and wasting millions in taxpayers’ money. Finally, we urge our representatives to ensure that the PAP takes note of the resolutions of the African Union as well as the programme of Nepad, and that they champion these efforts aimed developing our continent. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L W GREYLING: Madam Chair, the ID sees the Pan-African Parliament as an exciting initiative that will hopefully provide a truly representative forum for all the people of Africa. This Parliament must grow into a forum where African countries can learn from one another’s experiences in tackling our shared challenges. This Parliament, however, must not just be about an exchange of parliamentary ideas, but it must actively reach out to communities and civil society organisations.
During my travels around Africa, I was struck by the great divide that exists between people and their political representatives. It is imperative that we bridge this divide if Africa is to move forward as a prosperous continent. The people of Africa possess keen insights into the development challenges facing the continent, insights that have been formulated through their daily struggles in often intolerable, situations. There is an amazing wealth of knowledge and entrepreneurial activity in all parts of Africa, and it should be a function of this Pan-African Parliament to highlight these. It is only through understanding the reality on the ground that we can formulate policies and positions that will move this continent forward.
The ID insists that the Pan-African Parliament plays an effective oversight role in ensuring that all member states live up to the stated ideals for Africa, which include democratic governance and respect for human rights. It must not be a toothless body, but it must play an active role in holding all countries accountable to the wishes of the African people.
In this respect, the ID would like in the future to see elections being held for the representatives of this Parliament, so that Africans themselves can decide who will represent them on this body. In this way, representatives can also take forward a specific mandate from their constituencies, as opposed to the current situation whereby members themselves decide.
The ID looks forward to the progress of the Pan-African Parliament. We will put forward suggestions on how we feel the body can more adequately represent the shared ideal of a truly people’s African Parliament. May the voices of Africa finally be heard, our Pan- African governance structure strengthened, and Africa assume its rightful place in the world. I thank you.
Adv Z L MADASA: Chair, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Parliament for my election as part of the delegation of the South African Parliament to the Pan-African Parliament.
The odds were in favour of the Pan-African Parliament not being established in the near future. The reason for this is that many people and commentators thought that, in view of the many undemocratic governments and dictatorships in Africa, there would not be enough countries to ratify the protocol establishing the Pan-African Parliament.
We must, therefore, congratulate President Mbeki on his unwavering commitment to the democratisation of the continent. It is because of the support and the encouragement of his leadership that the Parliament is now a reality and is hosted in South Africa. We must also applaud the indefatigable energy of the previous Speaker who contributed a lot in this process.
The Pan-African Parliament will have consultation powers in its first term, which is the first five years, but the Parliament has powers and duties to discuss and make decisions on all matters affecting the African Union. The Pan-African Parliament can make recommendations to the Assembly of the Heads of State for the Assembly to take decisions on such recommendations. If the Pan-African Parliament has a good calibre of MPs, with a passion to be the voice of all Africans on issues of economic development, human security and disease, the Parliament, in my view, shall be a success.
It is also good news that the Pan-African Parliament is hosted in South Africa, for this will help South Africa to be truly integrated in the whole continent, so that we stop seeing ourselves as not part of Africa. Thank you. [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Hon members, please note that this is a maiden speech.
Mr S HUANG: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I am humbled to have been given the podium by my organisation, the ANC, to speak about an important institution such as the Pan-African Parliament, especially on the eve of its second session which will start two days from now in Midrand, Johannesburg.
Let me firstly, like many other speakers before me, add my congratulations to our country and its people on being chosen as the permanent seat for the Pan-African Parliament. In fact, at the risk of sounding arrogant, it could not have come at a better time, as our country is currently playing a leading role in trying to find a peaceful resolution to conflicts that are still found in some African countries.
I hope that on the occasion of the representatives of those countries which are still in conflict visiting our land, they will further be reminded of the need to try harder to get peaceful solutions to their differences when they go back home. Of course, such an event also comes as our country celebrates 10 years of democracy. We have every reason to be happy as well.
Most importantly, the sitting of the Pan-African Parliament on Thursday in our country shows how much confidence the rest of the continent has in us. The past 10 years of democracy has proved us to be a multiparty democracy, which can be trusted with the huge responsibility of successfully hosting this prestigious institution. I, therefore, have no worry that we will successfully host it.
Allow me to use my remaining time to address a very disturbing issue about some people in this House who, instead of focusing on the positive spending which such an event will bring to our country, choose to ask questions on how much it will cost us. Those who raise these questions about money need to be reminded how South Africans got their freedom. We owe it to the international community, particularly Africans, who, during our struggle for liberation, supported us.
Many of the citizens of these countries paid the ultimate price, but they never asked the question about how much their deaths, maiming and displacement by the apartheid forces cost. Who are we then to ask such a question when we are requested to contribute to the building of a new African continent free of diseases, conflicts, poverty and all the other illnesses currently associated with it?
Article 17 of the Constitutive Act of the African Union emphasises the need to establish the Pan-African Parliament in order to ensure the full participation of all the African people in the development and the economic integration of the continent. Again, as representatives of the people, drawn from different sectors of society, we should be engaging people on the ground, motivating and encouraging them to fully participate in this process of developing the Pan-African Parliament from just being a consultative and advisory body into a fully fledged legislative body which represents all the people of the continent.
We should ask ourselves how our country’s perspectives, coming from our experiences and lessons, serve as an example to other conflict-ridden countries. We should also be interrogating ourselves and our communities with the sole aim of finding out what is it that we need to do to realise all the dreams of Africa, as they are envisaged in the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad, document. For example, research shows that in the next 20 years the African continent will be home to over 1,5 billion inhabitants, over 800 million of which will be younger people below the age of 15.
It is also said that this human resource will put us on an equal footing with China and India, and will constitute a huge market. We therefore need to start now to think of ways in which we are going to protect this potential market, but most importantly, how we are going to use them to benefit the entire continent?
In conclusion, I believe we are moving in the right direction, and we dare not fail the founding mothers and fathers of our beautiful continent, especially at a time when our generation is so blessed with an abundance of esteemed leadership. This is shown through a number of progressive thinking initiatives, like Nepad, on the African continent, of which the Pan-Africa Parliament that we are discussing today is a result.
Just like our President, I look forward to the day when the Pan-African Parliament will pass legislation for the entire continent. In response to a question by a member of this House, the President said:
We should move from the basis that the Parliament should in the long run be able to pass and monitor legislation for the entire continent.
He further said:
As we achieve the greater integration of the African continent, the more it becomes unavoidable that we must set the rules and the regulations together, collectively.
Allow me to end my speech with the conclusion I found in the African Human Rights Law Journal, titled, “The Pan-African Parliament of the African Union: An Overview”. It reads as follows:
The Pan-African Parliament gives further impetus to the desire and vision of Africans to provide a democratic foundation to the African Union. The Pan-African Parliament ought to have a significant role to play in shaping an organisation that has elements of a peoples’ union. In the context of the Pan-African Parliament, it must realistically acquire some legislative powers in the near future if it is to have any credibility with the people.
I could not agree more with the above. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, a case for an African parliament has been put forward favourably by different African leaders before and after the end of colonialism on this continent. The desire to have this type of institution had been motivated by a need to unify and redevelop Africa. There is no doubt that the birth of the Pan-African Parliament with its first official base in South Africa fills us with pride as African people, irrespective of which country we come from.
This represents a victory for African people to have an institution of this nature. Above all, it is expected to help improve the living standards of our people across the continent. We agree that there is a difference in terms of establishing an institution of this magnitude and the actual implementation of its programmes. This gap presents a challenge for the institution to pursue its programmes of action with vigour. The litmus test that the Pan-African Parliament must pass is its ability to bring about stability and long-lasting solutions to the problems in the Great Lakes region, in addition to other challenges. In short, it should help to advance and not retard or reverse the gains achieved in the past. It is well documented that Africa after independence never had an opportunity to prioritise its development. [Time expired.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Deputy Chairperson, the PAC supports the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs’ draft provisional rules on the Pan-African Parliament. The committee has a mandate from this Parliament to make this contribution.
With regard to Rule 276, the PAC agrees that the South African delegation to the Pan-African Parliament should argue that committee meetings must be open to the public, except in exceptional circumstances. However, the PAC prefers the abbreviation for the Pan-African Parliament to be PAP, not “pap”. We are not here to eat pap. [Laughter.]
This is the PAP and it is bought with the blood of the African people. It did not just drop from heaven.
It is imperative to us Pan-Africanists that the Pan-African vision must be a parliament of all African people. The Pan-African Parliament must represent the Pan-African vision as envisaged by giant Pan-Africanists such as Nkrumah, Sobukwe, Sekou Toure, Modibo Keita, Zephania Mothopheng, Du Bois, George Padmore, Nnamdi Azikiwe, Lembede and AP Mda.
On behalf of the PAC, I emphasise that the Pan-African Parliament must pursue the objectives of the Pan-African vision. Indeed, this vision can only be articulated by Pan-Africanists. It is unfortunate that the majority of members of the PAP will not be Pan-Africanists. This being the case, the PAP might fail the Pan-African vision in the same way that the OAU did, since it was a compromise of the Casablanca group and Monrovia group. [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Chairperson, poverty is a problem throughout South Africa and is one of the issues that the MF hopes the PAP shall alleviate. Colonisation, slavery and apartheid have had serious effects on what Africa is today. The challenge of the HIV/Aids epidemic is on the list of Africa’s setbacks. These are but a few of the challenges that Africa faces. A democratic South Africa that is a member of the PAP should influence the rest of Africa with regard to practising democratic values, human rights, gender equality and so on.
It is certainly encouraging to have a female as the President of the Pan- African Parliament. We honour and respect the President of the PAP. We trust that she will serve in her capacity efficiently. We are also satisfied with the election of the Vice-President of the PAP.
If the countries of Africa could reach a united mind-set, we can achieve almost anything. We are affluent in terms of natural resources and we are a strong people. We have overcome a series of difficulties over the centuries. We have the potential and all the raw materials to strengthen Africa and become a strong global competitor. We firmly agree that we need to earnestly mobilise Africa to develop itself socially, economically and politically through its own assets and liabilities. The bridges of African languages need to be developed, ensuring every African access to their true potential.
Women and children throughout Africa need to liberated. The MF is excited about the PAP sitting on Thursday and it hopes that these issues will be on the agenda. The MF salutes a united Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M P SIBANDE: Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister and members, it is important to remind everybody gathered here that our ancestors, wherever they are, are happy about this initiative of the PAP. This is particularly true of our fallen heroes such as Kwame Nkrumah, Haile Selassie, Patrice Lumumba, Oliver Tambo, Julius Nyerere – to mention but a few. The PAP is the culmination of a long-held dream of these African liberators. We must hail the sons and daughters of Africa who have sacrificed their lives and liberty to ensure that Africa emerges from the yoke of poverty and degradation. President Thabo Mbeki and other African leaders have been working tirelessly to bring this dream of African unity to fruition.
Kukhona abantu, ikakhulukazi ngasesandleni sokunxele ezinhlanganweni ezithize, ebebemgxeka bethi uchitha isikhathi eside engekho kuleli lengabadi yakithi. Okuyihlaya ukuthi labo bantu abakuboni ukuthi izwe lakithi laseNingizimu Afrika liyingxenye yezwekazi lase-Afrika. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[There are people here, especially those on the left, in certain political parties, who criticised him, saying that he spends a lot of time outside the country. What is absurd is that they do not realise that South Africa is part of the African continent.]
They seem to not realise that South Africa’s development will mean very little if the rest of Africa lags behind. We exist alongside and through the rest of Africa. We must work together to bring about social and economic prosperity.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member Sibande, please take a seat. Mr Skhosana, are you rising on a point of order or do you wish to ask a question?
Mr M B SKHOSANA: Yes, Madam Deputy Chairperson, I wish to ask the hon member a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Do you wish to take a question, Mr Sibande?
Mr M P SIBANDE: Yebo. [Yes.]
Mr M B SKOSANA: The hon member said in IsiZulu that ``Okuyihlaya ukuthi labo bantu abakuboni ukuthi izwe lakithi laseNingizimu Afrika liyingxenye yezwekazi lase-Afrika’’… [What is absurd is that they do not realise that our country, South Africa, is part of the African continent],… which means that those on his left have been criticising the President, saying that the President is…
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA:) Hon member Skhosana, you were given the right to ask a question.
Mr M B SKHOSANA: Bengithi angibuze lapha mfowethu ukuthi uma uthi esandleni sokunxele usibala sonke kusuka laphaya? Ngoba kukhona no-Kader Asmal neNkosi laphaya. Baningi abakini abangapha. [Uhleko.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[Let me ask my brother whether he, when he says those on the left, is referring to all of us on this side? Because there is also Kader Asmal and the iNkosi here. There are many of your people on this side. [Laughter.]]
Mr S P SIBANDE: Bayazazi ebebekade bemgxeka. Uma wena ubungamgxeki ungakhululeka, bayazazi bona. [Those who criticised him know who they are. If you did not criticise him, just be free, they know who they are.]
President Mbeki has correctly stated that the social and economic crisis in Africa demands that we as Africans should play a proactive role in extricating ourselves from this position of poverty and underdevelopment on our continent. The President issued a call to the African masses to rise up in struggle to defeat poverty and underdevelopment to end Africa’s marginalisation and to restore the dignity of Africans everywhere.
Kubalulekile malunga lahloniphekile,kusho kutsi, kuphumelela kwe- PAP akungabukwa kucatsaniswe nalokwenteka kulamanye emave njengelubumbano lwe- Europe, kepha akubukwe ngeliso labo bonkhe bantfu base-Africa, ikakhulu mayelana nenkhululeko kanye nekubusa kwentsandvo yelunyenti. Asitishayeni sifuba kutsi singema-Africa sihlangene senta intfo letsi wele tsine letakutfutfukisa timphilo tetigidzi tebantfu labadla imbuya ngelutsi. (Translation of Swati paragraphs follows.)
[It is important, hon members, to say that the success of the PAP must not be seen against the background of or compared with what is happening in other countries like those making up the EU, but it must be seen from the perspective of all the people of Africa, especially with regard to freedom and democracy.
Let us be proud that as Africans we are united in doing something that is ours that is going to improve the lives of millions of people who are living in poverty.] All South Africans are waiting to embrace and welcome the delegation of the PAP into our country. All South Africans have endorsed the motion that the seat of the PAP should be in South Africa. We are aware that the rules governing the PAP are of great importance to ensure genuine democratisation of African politics. We are convinced that the amendments we have proposed will add further value to an already well-thought-out process of diversifying this route.
The PAP is meant to create awareness among all the people of South Africa on several important issues around their right to participate on issues of governance, peace and stability. One of the most important objectives of the PAP is to strengthen continental solidarity, co-operation and development. It is important that we ensure that the PAP leads to the commensurate development of all African countries and not just an elite well developed few.
In this new struggle, it is important that we forge greater bonds with other organisations and remain mindful of our obligations in terms of the African Union and Nepad. One of the most important rules or principles governing the PAP should be to guarantee gender representivity among its officers. As elected representatives of our people, we must ensure that we use this platform to draw attention to the leadership roles that African women can and must play in liberating our continent. We have structured our amendments to Rule 17, paragraphs 7 and 8 to give effect to this principle.
The South African experience postapartheid has taught us that the principle of openness and accountability dictated that most of our committee meetings be open to the public. This also fosters public confidence in the processes of the national Parliament, and we are convinced that the PAP can only benefit from conducting most of its meetings in public.
However, committees must be allowed to hold closed meetings in exceptional circumstances according to clearly prescribed regulations. It is our belief that the Rules of the PAP should allow for such public interaction in the proceedings of its committees.
We must ask ourselves why the people of Africa continue to lag behind whilst the former colonial powers are opening up doors through mechanisms such as the European Union. Why are Africans hesitant to embrace full continental co-operation in order to address Africa’s development collectively? The PAP provides us with an invaluable opportunity for us as an assembly of Africans to work together to address very real challenges and problems facing Africa.
We must give effect to our collective humanity as Africans before we become another casualty of history.
The DA still does not understand the principle of democracy. It was the DA’s failure to properly practice the principle of democracy and convince others that it should be sent to the PAP that resulted in its absence. I want to remind the hon Seremane that the DA is not entitled to anything. It should accept that democracy determines that one wins positions through earning respect and enough votes. [Applause.]
In conclusion, let us use the opportunity provided by the PAP for all Africans to finally have the decisive say in Africa’s development. We recommend that the House adopt the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:27. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2004
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Finance
Report and Financial Statements of the Accounting Standards Board for
2003-2004, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 73-2004].
MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 9 September 2004 in terms
of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75
Bills:
(i) National Payment System Amendment Bill [B 14 - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75)
(ii) Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 15 -
2004] (National Assembly - sec 75)
(iii) Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 16 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 75)
(iv) Water Services Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 75)
(2) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 9 September 2004 in terms
of Joint Rule 161, classified the following Bills as money Bills:
(i) Finance Bill [B 13 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77)
(ii) Petroleum Pipelines Levies Bill [B 18 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
- Translations of Bills submitted
(1) The Minister of Trade and Industry
(i) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Maatskappye [W 10 - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75)
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Companies
Amendment Bill [B 10 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77).
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Labour
(a) Recommendation No 192 concerning Safety and Health in
Agriculture, adopted by the International Labour Conference at its
Eighty-Ninth Session, Geneva, 21 June 2001, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Recommendation No 193 concerning the Promotion of Cooperatives,
adopted by the International Labour Conference at its Ninetieth
Session, Geneva, 20 June 2002, tabled in terms of section 231(3)
of the Constitution, 1996.
(c) Recommendation No 194 concerning the List of Occupational
Diseases and the recording and notification of occupational
accidents and diseases, adopted by the International Labour
Conference at its Ninetieth Session, Geneva, 20 June 2002, tabled
in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d) Convention No 185 revising the Seafarers' Identity Documents
Convention, 1958, adopted by the International Labour Conference
at its Ninety-First Session, Geneva, 19 June 2003, tabled in terms
of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
National Assembly:
- The Speaker
Report of the Inaugural Session of the Pan African Parliament.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Finance Bill [B 13 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 31 August 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Finance Bill [B 13 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a Money Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the National Payment System Amendment Bill [B 14 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 7 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the National Payment System Amendment Bill [B 14 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 14A - 2004].
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Petroleum Pipelines Levies Bill [B 18 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 10 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Petroleum Pipelines Levies Bill [B 18 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a Money Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
TUESDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly:
- Messages from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly in respect of Bills passed by Council and transmitted to Assembly:
(1) Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:
Bill, subject to proposed amendment, passed by Council on 14
September 2004 and transmitted for consideration of Council's
proposed amendment:
(i) Companies Amendment Bill [B 10B - 2004] (National Assembly
- sec 75) (for proposed amendements, see Announcements,
Tablings and Committee Reports, 6 September 2004, p 659).
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade
and Industry of the National Assembly for a report on the
amendment proposed by the Council.
- Referrals to committees of papers tabled:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and
report:
(a) Protocol on Legal Affairs in the Southern African
Development Community (SADC), in terms of section 231(2) of
the Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Protocol on Legal Affairs in
the Southern African Development Community (SADC).
(c) Protocol of the Court of Justice of the African Union, in
terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108
of 1996).
(d) Explanatory Memorandum on the Protocol of the Court of
Justice of the African Union.
(e) Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of India on
Extradition, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution,
1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).
(f) Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of India on Mutual
Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).
(g) Explanatory Memorandum on Treaty between the Government of
the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
Republic of India on Extradition and Mutual Legal Assistance
in Criminal Matters.
(h) Explanatory Memorandum on the Designation of the United
Kingdom, in terms of section 2(2)(a) of the Cross-Border
Insolvency Act, 2000 (Act No 42 of 2000).
(i) Report regarding the provisional suspension of Magistrate
S E Tebe without remuneration pending an investigation into
his fitness to hold office, in terms of section 13(4A)(b) of
the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).
(2) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance for consideration and report:
(a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia for the
Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal
Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the
Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Federal
Democratic Republic of Ethiopia for the Avoidance of Double
Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to
Taxes on Income.
(c) Convention between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of Bulgaria for the
Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal
Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum on the Convention between the
Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government
of the Republic of Bulgaria for the Avoidance of Double
Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to
Taxes on Income.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Communications
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Broadcasting Corporation Limited (SABC) for 2003-2004, including
the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
for 2003-2004.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of Telkom SA Limited for 2003-
2004, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the National Electronic Media
Institute of South Africa (NEMISA) for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for
2003-2004.
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Prosecuting
Authority for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 160-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Legal Aid Board for 2003-
2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 129-2004].
- The Minister of Science and Technology
Report and Financial Statements of the Human Sciences Research Council
for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 98-2004].
- The Minister of Education
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Qualifications
Authority (SAQA) for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 111-2004].
National Assembly:
-
The Speaker
Dear Madam Speaker
REPORT OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE SPECIAL REPORT OF THE PUBLIC PROTECTOR: 23 JUNE 2004
The National Assembly, towards the end of June 2004, accepted the report of its ad hoc Committee on the Special Report on the Public Protector dealing with the investigation of a complaint by the Deputy President against the National Director of Public Prosecutions and the Prosecuting Authority. In terms of the recommendations contained in the report, I need to report to Parliament onso me of the issues within a period of 60 days.
Although I am not in a position to provide you with a final report on the various issues yet, it is important for me to provide you with a progress report and, at the same time, request Parliament to grant me an extension of two months to finalise my report.
Provisionally, at this stage, I want to report as follows:
(A) ESTABLISHMENT OF MINISTERIAL CO-ORDINATING COMMITTEE IN TERMS OF SECTION 31 OF THE NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY ACT, 1998
The Committee has been established and, as I have indicated to you in a recent letter, already met on three occasions. Matters of concern were discussed and the Committee is scheduled to, from now on, meet on a regular basis.
(B) MEETING BETWEEN THE NATIONAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS AND THE PUBLIC PROTECTOR TO RESOLVE DIFFERENCES
I have over the past two months met with the former National Director of Public Prosecutions, Mr B T Ngcuka, and the Public Protector, Mr M L Mushwana, individually. On these occasions I have, amongst other things, raised the relevant issues. However, due to time constraints and changes in the top structures, I did not get the opportunity to meet with the two of them together. In the meantime, as you are aware, Mr Bulelani Ngcuka was allowed to vacate his Office as National Director with effect from 1 September 2004. That, however, will not inhibit me from continuing to discuss the development of effective measures to enhance co- operative relations between the two Institutions, both individually and together, on a regular basis.
Adv M S Ramaite SC has since been appointed by the President to act as National Director of Public Prosecutions for a month pending the appointment of a permanent incumbent. As it is the prerogative of the President to do so, it is difficult to say when a successor for Mr Ngcuka will be appointed.
(C) THE MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT TO TAKE IMMEDIATE STEPS TO ESTABLISH AN EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OF INFORMATION SECURITY WITHIN THE PROSECUTING AUTHORITY
The National Prosecuting Authority is already in the process of finalising an internal security policy. As a matter of fact, a number of officials of the National Prosecuting Authority have already signed an oath of security in compliance with the policy.
As indicated above, I should be in a position to provide Parliament with a final report within the next two months. I would therefore be grateful if I could be granted an extension until the end of October 2004 to finalise and submit my report.
In conclusion, I apologise for only being able to submit this report at this late stage. I had to go abroad and simply could not find the time before I left. Again my apologies.
Your kind assistance in this regard will be appreciated.
With kind regards
MS B S MABANDLA, MP MINSTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Companies Amendment Bill [B 10B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 14 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the Companies Amendment Bill [B 10B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75) and a proposed amendment of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 6 September 2004, p 659), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with an amendment [B 10C - 2004].
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 14 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, dated 14 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.
Request to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Bulgaria for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, dated 14 September 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Bulgaria for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.
Request to be considered.