National Assembly - 11 November 2004
THURSDAY, 11 NOVEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:03.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NOTICE OF MOTION
Mr M WATERS (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the House-
1) congratulates Kempton Park on the occasion of its centenary;
2) recognises that in addition to being the gateway of Africa -
Johannesburg International Airport - Kempton Park has played an
important role in the shaping of the South African political
landscape;
3) notes -
a) that it was in Kempton Park that the negotiations for South
Africa’s first democratic constitution took place, where our
new democracy was born;
b) that it was also at Kempton Park where the tide turned
against the National Party, where it was dealt its first
political defeat in the new South Africa, losing a key by-
election in March 1997;
c) that the residents of Kempton Park have been celebrating
their centenary through 60 cultural activities, including a
Mardi Gras and a banquet held last night; and
d) that in honour of our centenary Kempton Park has a star named
after it, and a rose has been cultivated and named after the
city; and
(4) hopes that the next hundred years will be as prosperous for Kempton Park as the first hundred.
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE
(The late President Yasser Arafat)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice as follows:
That the House -
(1) notes with shock and profound sadness the death of President
Yasser Arafat, who passed away on 11 November 2004;
(2) recognises that President Arafat was a veteran of the liberation
struggle of the Palestinian people, a patriot who throughout his
life demonstrated unwavering commitment to the liberation of the
Palestinian people and the achievement of a just peace in the
Middle East;
(3) recalls that -
(a) President Arafat as the leader of the Palestinian people
withstood tribulations and endured extreme hardship in pursuit
of peace in Palestine and Israel;
(b) the United Nations in numerous resolutions has called for
peace in Palestine and Israel; and
(c) the peoples of South Africa and Palestine have profound
bonds of brotherhood forged in a common struggle to achieve
national liberation;
(4) believes that the passing on of President Arafat puts more
urgency on the United Nations to act decisively for the resolution
of the Israel-Palestine conflict; and
(5) conveys its condolences to the Arafat family, the Palestinian
National Authority, the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, and
to all the people of Palestine.
Agreed to.
REMEMBRANCE DAY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice as follows:
That the House –
1) notes that today is Remembrance Day when those who died for their
country or cause in various wars and conflicts across the world
are formally remembered;
(2) believes that -
(a) it is important for them that we ensure a form of
collective consciousness so that they should never be
forgotten;
(b) as long as the people of the world remember those who
died, the democratic countries have a good chance of remaining
at peace; and
(c) those who died will not be forgotten and that their
sacrifice was not in vain; and
3) therefore resolves to observe a moment of silence as a tribute to
those who lost their lives in all wars and conflicts.
Agreed to.
FURTHER MANDATE FOR AD HOC COMMITTEE ESTABLISHED TO CONSIDER ANNUAL REPORT AND BUDGET OF OFFICE OF AUDITOR-GENERAL
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in the name of the Chief Whip on the Order Paper, as follows:
That, with reference to the resolution adopted by the House on 19
October 2004 establishing the ad hoc committee to consider the Annual
Report and the Budget of the Office of the Auditor-General, the
committee be further mandated to maintain oversight over the Auditor-
General and for that purpose to continue with its functions until the
oversight mechanism envisaged in the Public Audit Bill is established.
Agreed to.
MEMBERS’STATEMENTS
HIV/AIDS WORKSHOP FOR TRADITIONAL PRACTITIONERS IN EAST LONDON
(Member’s Statement)
Ms N M MAHLAWE (ANC): Sekela-Somlomo, kutshanje eMonti bekubanjwe ingqungquthela ebekukho kuyo amaxhwele, oogqirha nabanye abasebenzi bezempilo. La maqela abantu ebedibanise iintloko egwadla iqhinga lokulwa nesi sifo singugawulayo. Umbutho wesizwe i-ANC, uyalamkela inyathelo elithathwe nguRhulumente oxhuzula imikhala ngokuphumeza umthetho ophawulayo yaye usamkela nento yokuba amaxhwele ayinxalenye yabantu ababonelela ngempilo.
Intatho-nxaxheba yoogqirha bemveli ibalulekile ngenxa yokuba amashumi asibhozo ekhulwini abantu bakuthi bayabahambela befuna uncedo. Into efumanisekileyo yeyokuba amaxhwele ngabona bantu bazaziyo izidingo zabantu bakuthi kuba bahlala nabo. Umbutho wesizwe i-ANC iyalamkela eli nyathelo lithatyathwe liSebe lezeMpilo eMpuma Koloni kwaye lilinqwenelela impilo nempumelelo. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N M MAHLAWE (ANC): Deputy Chair, recently a workshop was held in East London where there were herbalists, doctors and other health workers. This group of people was meeting to discuss solutions and strategies to fight the scourge of Aids. The national organisation, the ANC, welcomes the initiative taken by the government in power in passing legislation and also recognises that herbalists are among the people who offer health services.
The participation of traditional doctors is crucial because 80% of our people consult these people for help. It has been found that herbalists are the people who are familiar with the needs of our people because they live among them. The national organisation, the ANC, welcomes the initiative taken by the Department of Health in the Eastern Cape and wishes it strength and success. Thank you. [Applause.]]
ALLEGATIONS OF BRIBERY AND EXTORTION
(Member’s Statement)
Mr D H M GIBSON (DA): Madam Speaker, members of the House will have noted reports about a substantial bribery scandal. A micro finance company known as Gems, which is a subsidiary of the African Bank, has paid a fine of R5 million and has agreed to pay compensation of R60 million.
The Scorpions have implicated a number of SAMWU officials and a DA councillor in Cape Town. The Scorpions have indicated that certain persons will be arrested within days.
I wish to place on record that the DA is committed to the principle that any public representative who is arrested or charged on a serious offence will immediately be suspended. Any Member of Parliament, Member of Provincial Legislature or city councillor who is convicted of a serious offence, particularly one involving dishonesty, must be deprived of his or her seat.
I am challenging the ANC to say the same. [Applause]
SOUTH AFRICA’S ``BLACK CHRIST’’ PAINTING BACK FROM EXILE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms N P KHUNOU (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes the fact that one of South Africa’s extraordinary oil paintings, in terms of both its history and artistic audacity, has gone on display in the National Gallery in Cape Town, where it forms the centrepiece of an exhibition on ten years of democracy.
The eight-foot canvass, which was the creation of Cape Town artist Ronnie Harrison, was first unveiled in 1962. It was considered blasphemous and subversive by the apartheid government. It depicts former ANC president and Nobel laureate Chief Albert Luthuli being crucified by former Prime Minister Hendrik Verwoerd and his Justice Minister John Vorster.
It left the country in 1961. It hung in the St Paul’s Cathedral in London and later toured the UK and Europe where it raised millions for the victims of apartheid. At the same time Mr Harrison was arrested and repeatedly interrogated and tortured by the then regime.
However, despite the state’s attempt to quash the message and destroy it, the painting has developed a life of its own and, to use the artist’s words, remained ``protected by divine providence’’. I thank you. [Applause.]
CRISIS IN EASTERN CAPE DEPARTMENT
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M DIKO: Madam Deputy Speaker, the UDM is dismayed at the crisis experienced in the social department in the Eastern Cape. The most recent example of this is the death of 12 grant beneficiaries in the Uitenhage area after being turned away by the social department officials. Members of the community claim that at least some of these people suffer from full- blown Aids, but were nonetheless turned away because they had to reapply.
Many of these people were referred to a certain Dr Pillay, before the elections, who provided the necessary medical certification for their disease. But it is unacceptable, Madam Deputy Speaker, that three months after the elections these people were told that they had to reapply.
Siyalibongoza iSebe lezeNtlalontle ukuba malijonge enye indlela yokunxibelelana nabantu, kuba ezi ncwadi azifiki ebantwini. Ubuncinane ezi ncwadi mazikhutshwe iinyanga ezintathu phambi kokuba kuphele ixesha kwaye zikhutshelwe kwezaa ndawo bathi abantu bafumane inkamnkam kuzo, hayi ukuba zithunyelwe ebantwini. Enkosi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[We are appealing to the Department of Social Development to consider other ways of communicating with people, because these letters do not reach the intended people. At least let these letters be handed out three months in advance; and they should be handed out at their pension paypoints, they need not be posted to them.]
ARRIVE ALIVE CAMPAIGN
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr C B HERANDIEN (NNP): Agb Adjunkspeaker, tydens verlede jaar se feesseisoen het duisende mense in ongelukke op Suid-Afrikaanse paaie gesterf. Ons kan nie ’n herhaling van so ’n slagting hierdie jaar op ons paaie toelaat nie.
Die NNP het by verskeie geleenthede sy kommer uitgespreek oor padveiligheid. Daar is ongeveer ses miljoen motoriste op ons paaie, daarom wil ons ’n beroep op almal doen om asseblief die padreëls te gehoorsaam. Baie van hierdie ongelukke kon vermy gewees het.
Padveiligheid is almal se verantwoordelikheid, veral oor die Kerstyd, aangesien die hoeveelheid motoriste op ons paaie gaan verdubbel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr C B HERANDIEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, thousands of people died in accidents on South African roads last year during the festive season. We cannot allow a repetition of a massacre like this on our roads this year.
The NNP has expressed its concern about road safety on many occasions. There are approximately six million motorists on our roads, and therefore we want to appeal to everyone to please obey the rules of the road. Many of these accidents could have been avoided.
Road safety is everyone’s responsibility, especially at Christmastime, because the number of motorists on our roads is going to double.]
The NNP would also like to urge members of Parliament and the public to donate blood as the SA National Blood Service indicated that blood supplies are at their lowest level in 30 years. By donating blood, you could save a life.
The NNP pledges its support to the Arrive Alive campaign. Let’s all arrive alive at our destinations. Thank you.
LEARNERSHIPS
(Member’s Statement)
Prince N E ZULU (IFP): Thank you, Deputy Speaker. It is worth noting that there has been a steady increase in the enrolment of learners in learnerships since the programme was first introduced in the Department of Labour.
The first year saw more than 3 000 learners register in different centres. In the second year more than 25 000 learners registered, and by March this year a total number of 65 725 learners had been registered. The National Skills Development target of 80 000 does not seem too far to reach, and we wish the Department of Labour well in its endeavour to fulfil the mandate.
However, what remains to be seen is whether these learners are getting jobs or have become skilled unemployable youth who run the risk of being poached by or are lost to other countries. A recent study on this matter indicates that the placement rate of learners who have completed their learnerships is in excess of 60%.
Given the state of the economy, which is unable to generate jobs the way everybody would like to see, 60% is not an absolute disappointment but a steady progression in the right direction. We can only hope that the figures quoted above do spread even to the rural areas of Nongoma and other places.
LANGUAGE POLICY OF UNIVERSITIES
(Member’s Statement)
Dr P W A MULDER (VF Plus): Mevrou die Speaker, die VF Plus stem saam met die NNP se beroep op ’n veldtog oor veilige verkeer en op Arrive Alive. Dis net jammer die NNP het nie ‘arrive alive’ nie, Mevrou.
Die Grondwet bepaal in artikel 6.2 dat die staat praktiese en daadwerklike maatreëls moet tref om die status van inheemse tale in Suid-Afrika te verhoog en te bevorder. Die VF Plus glo dat die waardigheid van ’n persoon regstreeks in verband staan met die erkenning van sy taal. Dan verwelkom ons ook die feit dat steeds meer parlementslede in hierdie Huis hul toesprake in hul moedertaal hou en dat die vertaaldienste tans uitgebrei word.
Prof Jakes Gerwel het in ’n verslag vir universiteite voorgestel dat een manier om inheemse tale se status te verhoog is om spesifieke universiteite verantwoordelik te maak vir spesifieke inheemse tale en op hierdie wyse hierdie tale te bevorder. Die VF Plus steun steeds daardie voorstel wat nie deur die regering geïmplenteer is nie.
Deel van dié voorstel was dat universiteite soos Stellenbosch en Potchefstroom verantwoordelikheid aanvaar vir ’n taal soos Afrikaans. Huidige voorstelle by die Universiteit van Stellenbosch dat Afrikaans as voertaal in die weg van transformasie staan, is kortsigtig en toon geen begrip van hoe mense deur hul moedertaal bemagtig kan word nie. Dit bly vir ons onverklaarbaar dat niemand dink of besef dat Engels as die enigste voertaal by die Universiteit van Kaapstad dalk ’n hindernis kan wees vir die grootste hoeveelheid inwoners in die Wes-Kaap waar meer as 60% van hulle Afrikaans as moedertaal het nie.
Dis tyd dat die regering erns maak met artikel 6.2 in die Grondwet, óf erken dat dit nooit die erns van die regering was om inheemse tale werklik te bevorder nie. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER (FF Plus): Madam Speaker, the FF Plus agrees with the NNP’s appeal for a campaign on safe traffic and for Arrive Alive. It is just a pity that the NNP did not arrive alive, Madam.
The Constitution provides in section 6.2 that the state must take practical and positive measures to elevate and promote the status of indigenous languages in South Africa. The FF Plus believes that the dignity of a person is directly related to the recognition of his language. Then we also welcome the fact that an increasing number of politicians in this House are making their speeches in their mother tongue and that the translation services are being extended.
Prof Jakes Gerwel proposed in a report for universities that one way in which the status of indigenous languages can be elevated is by making specific universities responsible for specific indigenous languages, thereby promoting these languages. The FF Plus continues to support that proposal which has not been implemented by the government.
Part of this proposal was that universities such as Stellenbosch and Potchefstroom take responsibility for a language such as Afrikaans. Present proposals at the University of Stellenbosch that Afrikaans as a medium of instruction hampers transformation are short-sighted and show no understanding of how people can be empowered by their mother tongue. We find it inexplicable that no one thinks or realises that English as the only medium of instruction at the University of Cape Town could possibly be a hindrance to the vast majority of the inhabitants of the Western Cape, where more than 60% of them have Afrikaans as their mother tongue.
The time has come for the government to become serious about section 6.2 of the Constitution or to admit that the government never seriously intended actually promoting indigenous languages. I thank you.]
DUMISANE MAKHAYE’S ROLE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms Z A KOTA (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ANC notes that the objective of creating a better life for all is being achieved in the province of KwaZulu-Natal through, amongst other things, the provision of housing.
Under the leadership of Comrade Dumisane Makhaye, the foundation for accumulated delivery of housing was firmly laid. The Durban Metro Mayor’s mid-term report records great strides in all areas of housing delivery, including the delivery of units and the conversion of hostels into proper family units.
The slums upgrading project is a true reflection of a people-centred and people-driven delivery project. Not only are the communities involved in the building of houses, however, but the owners of the new units also dismantled their slums themselves as they took occupation of their new houses. This is simple proof of the ANC-led government’s commitment to the creation of a better life for all. I thank you. [Applause.]
PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED BY MUNICIPALITIES
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr S F HAASBROEK (DA): Mev die Adjunkspeaker, altesaam sowat R1,2 miljard van hul begroting die afgelope jaar is nie deur die 34 staatsdepartemente bestee nie, wat aandui dat dienslewering aan die publiek in die gedrang is. Byna al die munisipaliteite in Suid-Afrika ervaar erge finansiële probleme en wanbestuur, en sommige is deurweek met korrupsie.
President Mbeki self wys daarop dat 136 munisipaliteite min of geen vermoë oor het om dienste te lewer nie. Pas het dit bekend geword dat die Oos-Kaap ook in duie stort wat betref dienslewering, terwyl die Vrystaat R5 miljoen betaal het om net ses toilette te bou. Dit toon duidelik dat daar iets nie lekker ruik nie. Die oorhoofse probleme word toegeskryf aan ’n gebrek aan bestuursvermoë, kredietbeheer en ondoeltreffende regeringstelsels.
Adjunkspeaker, die Departement van Openbare Dienste is op al drie vlakke van regering die boustene van die demokrasie. Dit is waar kiesers hul daaglikse bestaan voer, en daarom sê die DA dat dit die staat se verantwoordelikheid is om toe te sien dat indringende maatreëls geïmplementeer word om tweede- en derdevlakregering na ’n gesonde basis van doeltreffende rekeningstelsel te dwing. Dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mr S F HAASBROEK (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, approximately R1,2 billion of their budgets for the past year has not been spent by the 34 government departments collectively, which indicates that service delivery to the public is being jeopardised. Almost all the municipalities in South Africa are experiencing severe financial difficulties and mismanagement, and some of them are fraught with corruption.
President Mbeki himself has pointed out that there remains little or no capacity in 136 municipalities to deliver services. It has just become known that the Eastern Cape is also in a state of collapse with regard to service delivery, while the Free State paid R5 million to build only six toilets. This shows clearly that something smells fishy. The key problems can be attributed to a lack of management capacity, credit control and inefficient governing systems.
Deputy Speaker, the Department of Public Services is the building block of democracy on all three tiers of government. It is here that voters lead their daily lives and therefore the DA is saying that it is the responsibility of the state to ensure that in-depth measures are implemented to coerce second and third-tier government towards a sound foundation for an efficient system of accountability. Thank you. [Applause.]]
C-MAX JAILBREAK ATTEMPT TRAGEDY
(Member’s Statement)
Ms M W MAKGATE (ANC): Madam Speaker, the bloody incident that claimed the lives of four people at C-Max prison on Sunday, 7 November 2004, must be condemned. This event deserves most urgent investigation. The staff at C- Max prison work under very difficult, risky and testing conditions.
In dealing with this matter, we would suggest that the government should also consider wide-ranging measures, including tougher security clearances for people recruited to work there. The Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services must pay an oversight visit to the prison urgently to get an assessment and briefing on the matter.
The ANC commends the police and officials of the Department of Correctional Services on their bravery in containing the situation at C-Max prison. The ANC would like to convey its deep-felt condolences to the families of the deceased officials and their beloved ones. [Applause.]
HISTORIC LAND CLAIMS FOR COLOURED PEOPLE
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Adjunkspeaker, die onlangse bespreking deur die Kabinet rondom eerste-nasiestatus en historiese grondeise vir bruinmense is die regte ding om te doen. Dit sal in die volheid van die tyd gestalte vind. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Deputy Speaker, the recent discussion by Cabinet surrounding first nation status and historical land claims for coloured people is the right thing to do. This will come to fruition in the fullness of time.]
It is important to deal with foundations because foundations determine destinations.
Die bespreking kom op ’n tydstip dat al hoe meer bruinmense hul godgegewe mandaat herontdek en hul profetiese roeping begin verstaan. Ons weet dat die bitterheid van die amandels nog dik loop in ons gemeenskap, waar die goeie gesindheid van “ ons behoort aan mekaar” gedurig misbruik is.
Hierdie wortel van bitterheid sal verwyder word. Bruinmense sal vryspraak aanvaar. Ons sal versoen word sodat ons met ons mandaat as bedienaars van versoening hierdie kontinent kan beïnvloed.
Die 24/7-baton wat George Schmidt in 1738 na ons land gebring het en wat meer as 50 jaar lank gedra is deur ’n Hessekwa-vrou, Vehettge Tikhuie - die Genadendallers noem haar Magdalena - word met ’n nuwe passie gedra en deur nóg duisende opgetel. Die Ottentottoe (Hottentotte) sal inderdaad, soos Saartjie Baartman, uit ’n wêreld van eensaamheid, vernedering en verwerping huis toe kom. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The discussion comes at a time when more and more coloured people are rediscovering their God-given mandate and beginning to understand their prophetic calling. We know that the bitterness of the almonds still runs deep in our community whose good disposition of “we belong to each other” is continuously misused.
This root of bitterness will be removed. Coloured people will accept exoneration. We will be reconciled in order for us to influence the continent with our mandate as servants of reconciliation.
The 24/7-baton that George Schmidt brought to our country in 1738 and which was borne for more than 50 years by a Hessequa-woman, Vehettge Tikhuie, whom the people of Genadendal call Magdalena, is being carried with a renewed passion and thousands more are picking up on this. The Ottentottoe (Hottentots) will indeed, like Saartjie Baartman, come home from a world of loneliness, humiliation and rejection. Thank you very much. [Applause]]
FRONTING IN BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT COMPANIES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M J BHENGU (IFP): Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is widely acknowledged that the practice of companies using black people as fronts in order to obtain contracts on the strength of their empowerment credentials is a problem. Fronting is also hindering the advancement of true black economic empowerment in this country.
An example of this practice is an instance where it was recently discovered that a man from Durban was allegedly promoted from working as a driver to being a director of the business that he was working for and yet had had no involvement whatsoever in the day-to-day running of the business.
The company had secured several contracts from eThekwini municipality on the basis of its empowerment credentials, including a project worth R5 million. We are therefore glad to hear that the company’s existing contracts with the municipality were terminated after the completion of the investigation by eThekwini municipality into companies who had received tenders on the basis of their economic credentials.
Fronting should not be tolerated and businesses or organisations that are known to be taking part in this immoral practice should be dealt with accordingly, as they are taking business away from organisations with true empowerment credentials. We therefore hope that the relevant authorities are giving their full attention to this problem and that they are actively pursuing ways and means of identifying people who are involved in fronting so as to put a stop to that. Thank you.
PENDING SUSPENSION OF PENSION GRANTS IN EASTERN CAPE
(Member’s Statement)
Mr F BHENGU (ANC): Madam Speaker, we are disturbed to hear that several legitimate pension grants may not be paid out in the Eastern Cape. Reports are that the elderly and the disabled were unable to meet the deadline within which to reapply for their grants because of a shortage of doctors to assess them. We appeal to the provincial government to reconsider that decision, taking into account the geographic and demographic make-up of the Eastern Cape and other problems that members of the public may experience when they have to be assessed.
The ANC applauds the drive to stem corruption in the administration of grants and fully supports the process aimed at ensuring that only those people who are genuinely in need of grants receive these grants. However, the ANC cannot support the situation where thousands of vulnerable old people are deprived of their constitutionally guaranteed social assistance grants due to an administrative process.
We urge the Minister to intervene in this situation and to ensure that the poor and the vulnerable in the Eastern Cape are not unreasonably deprived of their social grants and assistance. Thank you. [Applause.]
ARREST OF POACHERS IN PLATTEKLOOF NATURAL HERITAGE SITE
(Member’s Statement)
Mr B M KOMPHELA (ANC): Madam Speaker, eight suspected poachers were arrested last week after conservation officials caught them red-handed collecting the restios and indigenous fynbos reeds which had been illegally cut in the Plattekloof Natural Heritage Site.
The ANC welcomes these arrests and urges the courts to pass maximum permissible sentences should these suspects be found guilty. The conservation and preservation of natural heritage is in the best interest of our country and our people.
The Plattekloof Natural Heritage Site is the habitat of 155 plant species, 12 of which are listed as critically endangered in a Red Data Book. These plants are unequally distributed in the Western Cape.
The ANC calls on our people to join hands with the natural conservation workers to protect natural heritage for the sake of our children and future generations. Thank you. [Applause.]
MINISTERS’RESPONSES
MEDIUM OF INSTRUCTION IN HIGHER EDUCATION
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought it important to, perhaps, briefly comment on the statement made by the hon member of the FF Plus. I think it is important to state that while one recognises the composition of the province in terms of language - which is mother tongue - there is no university in South Africa that is a regional university. All our universities are striving to be national institutions as well as, increasingly, international institutions. That is the character of higher education that I sincerely would want to preserve: a national and global character and not a regional one. I believe any university on which we would want to impose a very limited character would resist such a limitation.
We also must recall that language medium is a choice made by institutions. There is no government imposition in terms of language utilisation in a particular higher education institution. Having said that, we must also emphasise that in terms of education Acts, as well as in terms of our Constitution, language medium cannot be used as a means of exclusion.
Regarding all languages, we are looking forward to the report of the task team appointed by the former Minister to look into the further development of our higher education institutions and to identify whether indeed we can develop one of our indigenous African languages into a language for instruction in higher education. But I would think, even in the absence of that report that what is vital for higher education is to maintain its character of diversity and openness for all who wish to access it.
We need to ensure that we don’t in any way limit access to a range of languages, including Afrikaans, English and maybe one of the other official languages of our country, but we also need to ensure that every young person in South Africa can attend any of the institutions in our country. That is our policy and that is the approach we wish to maintain.
PROBLEMS FACING THOSE WHO RECEIVE STATUTORY GRANTS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I thought it necessary that, on behalf of the social cluster, one should respond on the matters that were raised by hon Diko and hon Bhengu.
Indeed, it is sad to note the circumstances that some of the people who have applied or are eligible for statutory grants have found themselves in, as was explained. It cannot be a matter that we, as government, should take lightly. It cannot be that we should allow administrative challenges to actually impede the process of assisting those who require such support. We will therefore ensure, through discussion with our colleagues in the provinces, that at least some precautions are taken. Some of those have been proposed by hon Diko, such as that a three months’ time lead should be given to ensure that people can be informed in time.
We also need to look at measures of communication that may make it possible that those who are affected are reached in time. I therefore would like to say to hon members that I will convey this message to Minister Skweyiya who, in turn, will have discussions with his provincial colleagues at Minmec level. Thank you. [Applause.]
CONTRIBUTIONS OF THE LATE DUMISANI MAKHAYE TO HOUSING AND ERADICATION OF SLUMS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. I welcome the statement made by the hon Zoe Kota on housing in KwaZulu-Natal, especially in reference to the leadership of Dumisani Makhaye. Regarding the statement by the hon member, I just wanted to elaborate on some of the work that the late MEC Dumisani Makhaye was involved in in respect of housing.
History will record Dumisani Makhaye as a selfless, dedicated servant of the people of South Africa who contributed immensely, not only to the destruction of apartheid but also the creations that it had left behind. As he plotted the downfall of the enemy in the trenches, he also plotted the return to social justice for all South Africans. He gave hope to millions of people that one day they will have a place to call home. He gave the last days of his life to ensure that this hope was achieved.
The late MEC Makhaye conceptualised the pioneering work of slum clearance, which today we have adopted as one of the pillars of our housing policy. This was started off in KwaZulu-Natal, where Makhaye worked and served his people, most of whom have moved or continue to move to decent houses. The number of people whose lives have been improved by this measure - by the actions of the late MEC Makhaye - is in excess of 20 000 households, because he believed in the commitment to the principles of the Freedom Charter.
Before his untimely death, Dumisani had made a commitment to ensure that in six years’ time there would be no family in a shack in KwaZulu-Natal. It is under the leadership of Dumisani Makhaye that housing development and housing delivery improved in KwaZulu-Natal by at least 80% between 1999 and
- Rural communities, for the first time, had access to government houses provided under the leadership of this sterling comrade.
It was Comrade Dumisani who launched the rehabilitation of houses that had been damaged in political violence. That rehabilitation was successfully implemented immediately after he took over the leadership of the housing project in KwaZulu-Natal. He lived to undo the legacy of apartheid and often he was seen in informal settlements and in run-down buildings.
The people of KwaZulu-Natal will never forget that it was Dumisani Makhaye who gave hope to the people of Mpumalanga, Ezakheni, Wembesi and Embali.
Finally, under the leadership of Dumisani Makhaye the department of housing in KwaZulu-Natal was the first in the country to come up with the housing policy to accommodate HIV/Aids orphans. The programme provides funding for the establishment of cluster homes for Aids victims and orphans, and for accommodation of adults with HIV/Aids and those who have been neglected by their families. Subsidies are given by the state to aid such affected families. The two projects which he pioneered are Lilly of the Valley and Golden Acre, and they will provide homes for 200 children.
I have done this to ensure that we all recognise and bear testimony to what the President said when we buried the late hon MEC, Dumisani Makhaye. He said, and I quote:
We need not one, nor two, nor ten but thousands of Dumisani Makhayes for this country to thrive.
Thank you. [Applause.]
PRESIDENT MBEKI AND RETRACTION OF MOTION
(Ruling)
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before we come to the subject for discussion, I just want to make sure Mr Ellis is here, and Mr Nel.
During Members’ Statements on 2 November 2004, the hon Mr Nel raised a point of order regarding remarks made by the hon Mr Ellis, asking me to rule whether it was in order to attribute statements and motives to the head of state without any substantiation. I undertook to study the Hansard and give a ruling. Having had the opportunity to study the unrevised Hansard, I wish to rule as follows:
Mr Ellis, with reference to a motion passed by the NCOP on 26 October 2004, said that President Mbeki was demanding that the NCOP retract the motion and had allegedly threatened not to attend Friday’s sitting of the NCOP unless the motion was retracted. The suggestion by Mr Ellis that the President might have sought to compel the NCOP to take a certain course of action by allegedly threatening not to attend a sitting of the NCOP, and that the NCOP, ever obedient, complied with the demand, is both a reflection on the NCOP and the President. I must therefore ask Mr Ellis to withdraw his remarks. Hon Mr Ellis?
Mr M J ELLIS: Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I ask on what grounds I must withdraw. Is it unparliamentary what I said? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Ellis, the Chair is asking you to withdraw the statement. I’m not asking you to make a statement.
Mr M J ELLIS: Am I not entitled to ask on what grounds I must withdraw, Madam Deputy Speaker? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have just explained . . .
Mr M J ELLIS: In terms of which Rule must I withdraw?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Ellis, you know as well as I do that business of the NCOP is business of the NCOP. It has nothing to do with this House. In fact, the practice that we found here was that there was no reference at all to the NCOP. It used to be referred to as “That Place” because we did not want, as this House, to interfere in what they were doing. And, of course, I have gone through the Hansard. Some of the things that I mentioned, even earlier on, which I found as the culture of the House, are that it is not necessarily unparliamentary language that we have to rule against, it is also the way in which we use parliamentary language to actually hurt other people. So, it is in that light that I am saying to you it is not a written Rule, but a Rule - I am stating now - whenever we do things in this House.
In fact, if you go back to Mr Nel’s question, he asked how you could substantiate what you said. You said that the head of state threatened the NCOP. I think it is in bad taste. It is in that vein that I ask that you please withdraw that reference to the President. We have no proof – all of us – that he ever said so.
I don’t have to address you on a matter that I have ruled on, because I’ve ruled. What I would like you to do is just to withdraw that reference to the President when we don’t have proof that the President actually threatened the NCOP, and to refrain from taking business that is before the NCOP and making it our business. I don’t want to address you further than this.
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Deputy Speaker, I will withdraw in respect of your . . .
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, not in the future. You withdraw now, and then we close this matter and continue as there is such a lot of business.
Mr M J ELLIS: Then I will not withdraw, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will not withdraw. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Well, of course, we get advice from the Table. But it is up to us as presiding officers to take the advice or not. The first part of the advice is that we are within the Rules, in fact Rule 63, which we could take out and read.
The second part of the advice is that I should wait for Mr Ellis to come back and ask him to withdraw, which I don’t want to do. He has no reason to leave while I am still addressing him. I want to come back to the House and rule against his behaviour, because it is disrespectful. It shows that he does not respect the Chair and this House. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, may I address you on this point of order? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Gibson, this matter is closed. This matter is between me and Mr Ellis, and Mr Ellis and this House. He has just shown us that he has no respect for my ruling. And, whilst I am still addressing him – this matter is not closed as yet – he walks out of the Chamber. So, I think, this House is going to be respected, irrespective of whether people like the rulings or not. You don’t walk out on anybody. But walking out of a Chamber is, I think, something that should be seen as very serious. Therefore sit down, Mr Gibson. We’ll address the matter . . . [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, with great respect, you can’t have it both ways. You tell me the matter is closed and then you say the matter is not closed. Will you please decide whether it is closed or not. [Interjections.] If you still want to take it further with Mr Ellis, then it is not closed and I would like to address you on the matter.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Gibson, the matter is between Mr Ellis and the Chair. If Mr Ellis was here to speak on the matter, I wouldn’t have a problem. But the ruling I made was not directed at you. I think that it is out of disrespect that an hon member would walk out of the Chamber while we are addressing him. That is why I say in as far as still opening up this matter for discussion is concerned, it is closed. The matter will be reopened by Mr Ellis, the Chair and this House. I want to come back to this House in the presence of Mr Ellis, having looked at all other things and this kind of behaviour, and rule on this behaviour.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Are you declining hearing me before you rule on the matter? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: On what point do you want to address me, Mr Gibson?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam, are you saying I can address you, or saying I can’t address you?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You can’t . . .
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam, it is very difficult with the mob jeering and cheering over there. [Interjections.] If they would please keep quiet while I attempt to address the Chair, then I’ll try to do so and to be helpful on the matter.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Gibson, there is noise from both sides. There is cheering from both sides. If you are trying to bring order, they are also trying to bring order. What makes you believe that when you cheer you bring order while they can’t bring order? So, if we say that there is cheering on this side and cheering on that side . . . Hon members, the cheering should also stop, because it is not helpful. I have made a ruling. I think it is disrespectful of any member, whilst they are being addressed, to walk out. I think let us leave the matter there.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I wanted to explain to you what happened.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why he left? [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why can’t he come and explain himself?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: [Inaudible.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Sorry, Deputy Speaker, Mr Gibson, could we please, for the purpose of the decorum of the House, avoid this exchange between you and Mr Gibson. It is very clear, Madam, in your ruling that you want the matter to be postponed until Mr Ellis is present. Could we please appeal to Mr Gibson as well to let the matter rest until Mr Ellis returns to the House? Please.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I hear what the hon Chief Whip is saying. I simply wanted to say to you that it was quite evident to me that Mr Ellis thought the matter had been disposed of. You asked him to withdraw the matter, he declined to do so, and he took the honourable way of leaving. That is exactly what he did.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If that is honourable, I still need to be schooled on what honourable means.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Right. Okay. I needed to address you on that point.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We now come to the subject for discussion . . .
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, you won’t hear me.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I rule that you sit down. We now come to the Subject for Discussion: Sixteen days of activism: Unite against Woman and Child Abuse. I now call the hon the Deputy President.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, if you would just indulge me. In the course of making his intervention, Mr Gibson referred to hon members here as a “mob”. I think that is highly unparliamentary and he must withdraw it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, in the heat of the argument, I could have skipped that, but let me come back to that with a ruling. If the hon member did refer to the ANC members as a mob and he wants to withdraw that, he may do so now and then we move on.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam, I don’t actually want to withdraw it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, great. That’s fine.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: But if you tell me to withdraw it, I will withdraw it. They were carrying on like a mob. That is all I was saying, but if that is unparliamentary I withdraw it, Madam.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is not,“if that is unparliamentary”. It is unparliamentary to refer to hon members as a mob, and you know that. What you can now do, which is honourable, is to withdraw it and sit down.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I withdraw it unreservedly.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
SIXTEEN DAYS OF ACTIVISM: UNITE AGAINST WOMAN AND CHILD ABUSE
(Subject for Discussion)
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, in Kliptown, at the Congress of the People 49 years ago, the people of South Africa declared, among other things, that there would be peace and security, when they adopted the Freedom Charter. The campaign and programme of action to create a safer environment for women and children is in line with this vision.
As we prepare for the beginning of the campaign 16 Days of Activism: No Violence Against Women and Children, from 25 November to 10 December, we are affirming our belief that the rights of women and children are human rights, and that their violation runs against the spirit and letter of our Constitution. President Mbeki will launch this campaign in Port Elizabeth on 25 November, and his involvement indicates the seriousness with which this matter is taken at the highest level of government and the country.
The campaign brings us together as a nation, to recommit ourselves to the goals of eradicating women and child abuse, and to create an environment that is conducive to the growth and development of women and children. We are holding this debate today because we realise that this problem still exists, and that we need to further share views on what can be done, and to report back on the progress we have made in dealing with this scourge.
As government, our commitment to this goal has been supported with firm action, and we are pleased with the progress we have made in preventative measures, as well as remedial action. Our comprehensive programme has involved working through a number of strategies. These include investing in young people to prevent crime and violence, promoting moral regeneration and rebuilding the social fabric, transforming the criminal justice system, improving the status of women and the overall programme of social and economic development. We have embarked on this comprehensive approach, because law enforcement on its own is not sufficient to prevent domestic violence and the abuse of children. This is due to the complex nature of the crime. Most of these crimes take place in people’s homes and are not reported to the police. If they are reported, there is always a possibility that the case may be withdrawn, due to family or social pressure, and also due to economic dependence on the perpetrator and other reasons.
The 16 days campaign is therefore one of the most important public communication efforts to raise awareness and instil confidence in victims. Domestic violence occurs amongst couples of all classes and social backgrounds, from suburbs to informal settlements. It occurs amongst young and old couples, married or unmarried. Younger women, especially teenagers, need more assistance, as their youth puts them at risk. Middle-class women are also vulnerable, as social status may deter them from exposing their partners and from seeking legal recourse.
We are also aware that most of the domestic violence cases take place amongst the poorest of the poor. These are cases where families reside in low-cost housing or informal settlements, which could be characterised by a lack of access to sufficient social services. Part of the solution therefore is tied to government’s integrated development strategy.
Key to the strategy is women’s empowerment, which would lead to a solution in which more women depend less on men for economic survival. Another pillar of intervention, and the most effective and visible so far, is legal recourse.
Among the laws that have made a difference is the Domestic Violence Act, which has provided much needed ammunition for women in distress. The statistics for protection orders in domestic violence cases indicate that more and more women are approaching the courts for relief. This is an indicator of the effectiveness of publicity campaigns such as the 16 Days of Activism: No Violence Against Women and Children campaign.
A high proportion of orders applied for are granted, and the success rate has been 83% during the past four years. This, in my view, indicates that the great majority of applications for protection orders are legitimate. No official statistics are as yet available for 2004, but most courts have indicated a general increase of protection orders being required and granted.
The pending Sexual Offences Bill, currently before this House, will have its own positive impact. It will broaden the definition of sexual violence and help ensure that heavy sentences are applied to perpetrators of violence and abuse. Already progress is visible in this area. Fifty-two sexual offences courts have been established thus far, and they have proven to be effective.
The Maintenance Act is another critical intervention. It provides a level of independence for mothers, as it ensures continued financial support for the children if they decide to act against abusive fathers.
We are also aware of the concerns of the public that some officials in the police service and courts may not as yet be in tune with the new ethos, and that they are unco-operative when victims approach them for assistance, viewing domestic violence as a family matter. We are taking the issue of training seriously in order to change attitudes, and in this regard we are pleased that we have the support of the nongovernmental sector.
Ngithanda ukugcizelela ukuthi, njengohulumeni, ngeke siyibekezelele le ndaba yokuhlukunyezwa komama nezintombi ngabesilisa, abanye babo kube kungabayeni namasoka. Sithi komama nezintombi, abangesabi ukuphumela obala, babike emaphoyiseni uma behlukunyezwa noma beshaywa. Lo hulumeni wentando yeningi unemithetho ebavikelayo futhi abangayisebenzisa.
Sinxusa omakhelwane nemiphakathi yonke ukuthi le nkinga bangayithathi njengeyabantu ababili abathandanayo kuphela, kodwa bayithathe njengenkinga yomphakathi wonke. Bangasiza ngokubiza amaphoyisa, bangazibi nje benze sengathi abezwa noma ababoni kube konakala. Kuyasijabulisa-ke ukuthi kwezinye izindawo sekuyenzeka lokhu.
Sicela amadoda awungenele lo mkhankaso wokulwa nale nkinga ukuze acacise ukuthi akusiwona onke amadoda ahlukumeza abantu besifazane. Lokho kuyokwenza ukuthi nabawenzayo lo mkhuba bawuyeke. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[I want to emphasise that as the government, we are not going to tolerate abuse against women and young girls. Some of these perpetrators are their husbands and boyfriends. We are encouraging women and young girls that they should not fear to come forward and report to the police when they are abused or assaulted. This democratic government has laws that can protect them, and to which they can seek recourse.
We urge our neighbours and all communities not to treat this problem as an isolated issue between two lovers only, but to treat it as a problem for the entire community. Communities can assist by calling the police, and should not turn a blind eye as if they did not hear or see while things were getting worse. We appreciate it that in other communities this is being practised.
We invite men to join this campaign of fighting this problem in order to show that it is not every man that abuses women. That would make those who commit this kind act stop it.]
Also forming part of the 16 Days campaign is the protection of children from all forms of abuse and neglect. When South Africa ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1996, it joined the nations of the world and committed itself to creating a world conducive to children.
Our young democracy has done exceptionally well in terms of highlighting and promoting the rights of children. The rights, development, survival, care and protection of children have shifted from being a personal or charitable concern, to occupying priority space on the national political agenda. This has been supported by widespread legislative and policy reform, including the ratification of various international policy instruments. These include the Constitution, with its Bill of Rights; the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of Children; the Child Justice Bill; the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; the policy on the transformation of the child and youth care system; the Child Care Act, to be replaced by new comprehensive child care legislation; the Convention on the Elimination of the Worst Forms of Child Labour; the White Paper on Early Childhood Development and the Optional Protocol on Child Trafficking.
We have an obligation to ensure that all children get the best possible start in life. In particular we must ensure that children enjoy the right to be heard, the right to have good health care, the right to go to school and learn, the right to be loved and protected from harm, and the right to belong - even when they look different, for example in terms of complexion, disability or other differences.
As we have said in the Freedom Charter: “There shall be peace and security”, and as we entrenched this in the Bill of Rights of our Constitution, all of us have an obligation to work to achieve the goal of safety and security for women and children. We urge men and boys, in particular, to become active in the campaign 16 Days of Activism: No Violence Against Women and Children, so that we do not entrench a stigma that South African men are among the worst abusers in the world.
The majority of men are protective of their families and loved ones, and this is what we must seek to highlight and promote during this campaign in order to isolate the perpetrators of these despicable crimes against women and children. I also trust that hon members will become actively involved in this campaign, particularly in their constituencies. We all have a responsibility to act. I thank you. [Applause.]
Nkskz C I LUDWABE: Sekela-Mhlalingaphambili, Sekela-Mongameli welizwe namalungu onke ale Ndlu, namhlanje ndima apha phambi kwenu ukuza kuthetha ngomkhuba ombi wokuxhatshazwa kwamakhosikazi kwakunye nabantwana.
Ukuxhatshazwa kwamakhosikazi kunye nabantwana ndinokuthi kufikelele kwinqanaba eliphezulu kweli lizwe jikelele, nto leyo eyenza ukuba siphulukane nelungelo lokuba sithi sinalo ihlumelo eliza kuba ziinkokeli zangomso. Ndifuna ukuzekelisa ngesi siganeko sokuxhaxhwa kwamakhosikazi amane kuCentane, eMpuma Koloni, kufuphi nalapho ndisuka khona nesivele kumabonakude phezolo.
Njengoko kulo nyaka umiyo sisithi sibhiyozela iminyaka elishumi yenkululeko kawonke-wonke, umbuso wentando yesininzi, kumele ze kutyhilwe ikhasi elitsha ukwenzela ukuba uliwe uncothulwe neengcambu lo mkhuba mbi wokuxhatshazwa koomama nabantwana.
Kufuneka ukuba urhulumente akhe okanye avule amaziko aliqela kangangoko apho kunokuthi kufundiswe amakhosikazi, abantwana kunye nabo bachaphazelekayo ngoxhaphazo, nalapho bangathi balulekwe de imeko yabo ibe ibuyela esiqhelweni.
Okunye okubalulekileyo kukuba abantu bethu bafundiswe ukungawatyesheli amasiko nezithethe zabo, nto leyo ekufuneka ibe ngumphako eliza kuthi iSebe lezeMfundo liwusebenzise njengesikhokelo xa kuqulunqwa inkqubo yemfundo.
Abantwana bethu kufuneka bakufunde besekumabanga aphantsi oku ukuze babe nemibono eqaqambileyo ngekamva labo kwaye bayazi imeko yokuxhatshazwa neyobuhle. Kufuneka singawalibali amagorhakazi ethu omzabalazo afana noomama uFrancis Matomela, uLillian Ngoyi, uRay Alexander, uElder Vani, umama uJibiliza, umama uDorothy Zihlangu nabanye abaninzi ababesilwela le nkululeko siyixhamlayo namhlanje. Ngothando bazidina bajongana naye wonke umntwana, nokuba ngokabani, nokuba ngowoluphi na uhlanga. Bona babengazange bakhethe abantu, bathi lo unesimilo esimnyama, lo unesimhlophe, koko babebaqeqesha ngokufanayo bonke. La maqhawekazi sithetha ngawo apha ngawo asivulele neli thuba lokuba sibe namhlanje sihleli kule ndawo.
Akakho umntu ongalibala okukhe kwenzeka kwiminyaka edlulileyo, ukudlwengulwa komntwana uTshepang, owayeneenyanga ezilithoba kuphela ezelwe. Loo nto yakhathaza umzi wonke waseMzantsi Afrika. Abantwana bethu kufuneka sibabonise uthando ukuze nabo bazibone bengabantu ababalulekileyo ekuhlaleni yaye beyinxalenye yokuhlala. Isithethi sakwaNtu sithi, “Umntwana wam ngowakho; umntwana wakho ngowam”.
Ndicinga ukuba lithuba lokuba sisebenze ngoku. Lithuba lokuba siwulwe lo mkhuba wokuhlaliswa kabuhlungu ngumntu omhlambelayo, umntu othi uyakuthanda.
Kananjalo simele ukuba siqulunqe iindlela eziza kukhokela ukwakhiwa kwamaziko okufundisa abantwana bethu ubugcisa; siqulunqe iindlela ezithile zokusebenza nabantwana ekuhlaleni; sizame ukulwa ukuthengiswa komsebenzi kubantwana abangaphantsi kweminyaka eyamkelekileyo yokuphangela. Naleyo into ifuna thina boonozala.
Ootata ngabantu bemfazwe. Abakhathalele mama bengakhathalele naloo mntwana. Ukukhathalela nje ngalo mzuzu esahleli nawe esithi uyakuthanda. Xa sele engasakuthandi ubona ngemikhwa yakhe. Abahlali kufuneka bathabathe inxaxheba kuko konke oku kukhankanyiweyo apha ngentla. Kufuneka kubekho isikhokelo sokuqulunqwa komqulu wamalungelo abantwana.
Ukuxhatshazwa kwamakhosikazi kuba ziindidi ngeendidi. Ufumanisa ukuba abanye baxhatshazwa ngokwesondo okanye ngokuphathwa gadalala, ngokudlwengulwa, ngokubethwa okanye ngokosulelwa ngentsholongwane ngabom, nangezinye iindlela.
Lo mba wobundlobongela unakho ukuchaphazela uqoqosho lwesizwe. Ndicela ukuba abantu bayeke ukudlwengula iintsana. Omnye udlwengula usana lwakhe olusandul’ ukuzalwa. Konke oku yinto entsha kumzi wakwaNtu. Akuzange kwaba nje. Thina bantu bazala abantwana kufuneka siphakame siwubhinqe ube mfutshane, ootata khe beme ecaleni, ibe sithi abathatha inxaxheba yokujongana nezi zikhalazo. Oomama bamanye amazwe nabo kufuneka bazi ukuba ngabo abazisa umntu kweli lizwe, akukho tata uzala mntwana. Ukuba siyiyekile le ndima sakubonakala njengamagwala. Amaqhawe ethu awazange ayiyekele into enje ngale.
Ngaloo mazwi bazali, ndithi masiphakame. Malibe linye makhosikazi! Igama lamakhosikazi!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Malibongwe!
Nkskz C I LUDWABE: Malibongwe!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Igama lamakhosikazi!
Nkskz C I LUDWABE: Wathint’ amakhosikazi!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Wathint’ imbokotho!
Nkskz C I LUDWABE: Wathint’ imbokotho!
AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Wathint’ amakhosikazi!
Nkskz C I LUDWABE: Enkosi, Mhlalingaphambili. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa speech follows.)
[Mrs C I LUDWABE: Deputy Chairperson, Deputy President of the country and all other members of the House, today I am standing here in front of you to speak about the bad habit of abuse of women and children.
The abuse of women and children, according to me, has reached a high level in this country generally, and this alone results in us losing the right to say that we have offspring or progeny that will be the leaders of tomorrow.
I want to give an example of an incident in which four women were axed at Centane in the Eastern Province, near where I come from, as was shown live on television last night.
As we are saying, this year we celebrate 10 years of freedom for all, a government of majority rule, and we are supposed to turn over a new leaf in order to fight and destroy the roots of this evil of the abuse of women and children.
The government must build or open as many centres as possible at which women and children, as well all others affected by abuse, can be trained and at which they can also be rehabilitated until their conditions return to normality.
Another point of importance is that our people should be taught not to neglect their traditions and customs, and that fact should be an issue which the Department of Education will use as a guideline when designing the way forward in education.
Our children should learn this whilst they are still in the lower grades so that they can have bright visions about their future, whilst at the same time making them aware of the fact of abuse and of beauty. We must not forget our heroines of the struggle, like mothers Francis Matomela, Lilian Ngoyi, Ray Alexander, Elder Vani, mother Jibiliza, mother Dorothy Zihlangu and many others who fought for this freedom we enjoy today.
With love they made sacrifices and looked after all children irrespective of whose child it was and regardless of its race or origin. They never classified people, they never said the one was of black character, and the other of white. They trained or treated them all equally. These heroines we speak about here gave rise to this occasion that caused us to be gathered together here today.
No one could forget what occurred some years ago, namely the rape of the child called Tshepang, who had been born only nine months previously. That thing disturbed the whole community of South Africa. We must show our children love so that they should also see themselves as important people in the community and see themselves as part of the community. One community speaker once said, “My child is your child, your child is my child”.
I think it is now time for us to work. It’s time to fight this evil of being tortured, ill-treated by a person for whom you wash, a person who says he loves you.
At the same time we are supposed to devise ways which will lead to the building of centres to teach our children technology, and to devise certain ways of working with the children in the community, trying to fight corruption in respect of jobs being given to children who are under the prescribed age to be employed.
Fathers are people of war. They do not care for a mother, and neither do they care for a child. Such a man only cares for you the moment he is with you whilst saying he loves you. When he no longer loves you, you see this by his actions. The residents must take cognisance of all that has been mentioned above. There must be a guideline in compiling a document about the rights of children.
The abuse of women occurs in different ways. You find some being sexually abused, and others being violently raped or assaulted or abused by the transmission of AIDS purposely and by various other means. This issue of violence might affect the economy of the nation. I ask the people to stop raping babies. One man raped his own recently born baby. All this is something new to the African nation. It was never like this before.
We people who give birth to children are supposed to rise up and show our anger. Fathers should stand aside; it should be we who shoulder the burden to address the complaints. Mothers of other countries must also know that it is they who bring a person into this world; there is no father who gives birth to a baby. If we leave this issue, we shall appear as cowards. Our pioneers or champions have never left a thing like this.
By these words, parents, I say, let us stand up. Let women be of one voice: The name of women!
HON MEMBERS: Let it be praised!
Mrs C I LUDWABE: Let it be praised!
HON MEMBERS: The name of women!
Mrs C I LUDWABE: You struck women!
HON MEMBERS: You struck a rock!
Mrs C I LUDWABE: You struck a rock!
HON MEMBERS: You struck women!
Mrs C I LUDWABE: Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]
Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, I would like to take this opportunity to deal frankly with the relationship between gender inequality, the abuse of women and children and HIV/Aids; because if we are going to combat HIV/Aids with any success, we need to look reality squarely in the eye. The reality is that many women and children in South Africa do not have absolute control over their bodies or their sex lives. Many lack the economic and social power to say no and when they do they lack the physical power to enforce their choice.
A woman I know once told me plainly that she simply was not in a position to insist that her husband use a condom during sex, even though she knew for a fact that he had a number of other sexual partners. She rationalised her situation by saying that even if she were HIV positive, she could still go on living for 10 years. She was 27 at the time.
So, we need to recognise, understand and confront the fact that the struggle for gender equality and the campaign against HIV/Aids are inextricably linked. We will never succeed in our efforts to test and treat people living with HIV/Aids unless we change attitudes towards women. For, among other things, HIV/Aids in South Africa today is a manifestation of gender inequality.
The fact is that we live in a patriarchal society, a society in which the formal rights of women and children are not underscored by universal respect for their autonomy, dignity and worth. That is why the President was wrong to attack Kathleen Cravero and Charlene Smith, and accuse them of racism, as he did in ANC Today some weeks ago. [Interjections.] His comments damaged the cause of gender equality and the campaign against rape and sexual violence. The fact is that rape is indeed pervasive in our society.
A survey of 300 000 South African children, published in the latest edition of the British Medical Journal, found that a quarter of them believed that girls enjoy rape. A study by the Medical Research Council found that 15% of men reported having raped or having attempted to rape their wife or girlfriend in the 10 years prior to the study. There are a wide variety of other figures that confirm these findings.
Just last week the Deputy Minister of Health was reported saying that the Department of Health is in possession of information, which shows an alarming number of girls between 2 and 12 years of age who are HIV- positive, even though they were not born with the virus. The implication, it was reported, is that these girls may have contracted the virus as a result of sexual violence.
The first step in overcoming a problem is to acknowledge it. The President needs to show us, when he opens the campaign this year, that he fully comprehends the reality of abuse, sexual violence and rape in our country.
I need to say frankly that the DA is astonished and appalled at the fact that one of the messages the government has chosen for this campaign is actually an ANC election slogan. It exhorts us to unite in a people’s contract.
Now, I think this says something about the ANC’s attitude to democracy and diversity. Why does the ANC feel the need to divide where it should try to unite? [Interjections.] Why, on this issue of all issues, where we could stand together as one country and nation, does the ANC feel the need to assert its limitless desire for hegemony?
I am glad that the Deputy President brought up the Freedom Charter earlier, because the ANC needs to understand that it does not own South Africa. [Interjections.] South Africa, it should remember, “belongs to all who live in it”. [Interjections.] I think the members on this side of the House will recognise the document from which those words are drawn. [Interjections.] They can shout as much as they like. I think the reason they shout so loud is because they know that what I am saying is true. [Interjections.]
If you want South Africa to unite, don’t impose yourself on other people. [Interjections.] Don’t disrespect the millions of people in South Africa who did not vote for the ANC. We would like to work and stand together to combat the abuse of women and children in South Africa. [Interjections.] Why does the ANC need to turn it into a partisan issue when it could be non- partisan? I think it is a mistake and I think that people who think about it carefully will agree that it is a mistake.
I wish to conclude with a statement about children. Children are individual human beings, equal in dignity and worth, even if they lack the capacity to completely direct their own lives. Children are not simply extensions of their parents. They are not owned objects. They do not exist simply for the purposes of adults. They have purposes of their own. They have legitimate needs and desires and opinions. Children have a right; they have a right to respect.
I would like to associate myself with the comments of the previous speaker in this regard, because I think we agree on that. I would encourage parents in our country to think very carefully about what they teach their children. We need to be careful about the way in which children are disciplined, and that this discipline does not teach them that violence is an acceptable way to get what you want or impose your will on others.
I myself do not believe it is right to beat children. I recognise and accept that others disagree, sometimes very strongly, and I know that this is a controversial subject, but for that very reason it needs to be discussed openly. Such a discussion can only lead to improvement in our sensitivity towards the need of children in our country. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms C N Z ZIKALALA: Madam Chairperson, Sixteen Days of Activism! Women are the foundation of the world. They are the centre from which goodwill and kindness flows in the world. The strong walls of our nation have been built from their virtues, wisdom and courageous efforts. They are the pillars of continuity, which have kept our world from falling apart since the beginning of time until the present day.
For centuries they have carried the burdens of the world, making life more bearable for all of us. Each and everyday, women give the gift of life. They raise world-class leaders and are responsible for an endless cultivation of love, peace and understanding.
Despite the priceless contribution that women have made in the world, they have countless times been victims of humiliating abuse. Their tears of sorrow have stained the earth that we walk on, while their cries of pain and distress because of maltreatment and misery still echo late in the night.
This abuse against women can be viewed as being symbolic of deep-rooted power structures within communities, which still seek to keep women within the confines of suppression and dependency. Despite democratic developments in South Africa, many women are still held back by these hidden power structures that are deeply embedded in societal cultures and norms.
Today, 10 years into our democracy, children are also victims of violent crimes and life-shattering abuses. Media reports always bring to our attention the severity of these violent crimes that are committed against our children, and highlight the heartless and deep-seated brutality of these crimes. These reports normally reveal the anguish and the torment suffered by the children of our nation, while simultaneously revealing a severe societal ill that is currently gripping our nation with an iron fist.
Violence and abuse against women and children do not only affect the immediate families where they occur. They affect society in its entirety due to the fact that they entrench an evil syndrome of degradation that is eroding our society’s already depleted moral fibre.
It has to be understood and acknowledged that with the HIV-pandemic on our doorstep, the lives and wellbeing of women and children are gravely at risk. The HIV-infection rate is therefore also escalated by these powers and control patterns of maltreatment.
Therefore, on the basis of the principles of democracy, it is our duty to ensure that the status of women and children is improved in order to ensure that they can fully enjoy their rights as free citizens of this country. Dealing with this problem requires unity of purpose from all corners of this country.
It is our duty, as representatives of the people of South Africa, to drive this process by actively engaging with our people at community level and initiating partnerships that will lead to the survival and recognition of the rights of women and children in this country. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr J BICI: Madam Chairperson, Deputy President, hon members, at the outset allow me to salute Deputy Minister Gillwald for driving this initiative with commitment and enthusiasm.
Deputy Minister, you have created an initiative that grows a little bigger every year, steadily spreading the message that violence against women and children is an intolerable attack on our freedom as a nation. We can only hope that we will see the day, not far from now, when we can raise a toast to the hon Deputy Minister and celebrate because we no longer need to campaign against this scourge.
Let us prove to the world that the South African miracle did not end on 27 April 1994, but that it continues. In the meantime, however, we must be vigilant. The campaign also depends on men reaching out to their peers and saying, “We will not tolerate violence against women and children.” There is no excuse and no justification for such acts, full stop. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.
In terms of Parliament, there is not only a political majority in this House, but also a gender majority. As democrats, it is our duty to play a leadership role to demonstrate that this isn’t a so-called women’s issue, but a human issue. We must reach across the political and gender divide and forge a united front opposing violence against women and children. We can start by fully supporting the campaign that the hon Deputy Minister has managed so effectively.
Ukugqiba manenekazi namanene,kwabo bathe banegalelo, kwabo bathe bayixhasa le nkqubo, sibamba ngazibini. Sithi ngxatsho ke, sithi ukwanda kwaliwa ngumthakathi. sithi nangamso, yanga imisebenzi yenu ingazala amaduna namathokazi. Enkosi. [Kuyaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[In conclusion, ladies and gentlemen, to those who participated, who supported this programme, we say thank you. Well done. I wish you all the best. We thank you, and wish you the best in all that you do. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Mr L W GREYLING: South Africa is reported to have the highest statistics on gender-based violence in the world for a country not at war, and all of us are repulsed by the reports of babies as young as three years old being raped.
The ID feels that a nation which does not protect its women and children does not deserve to be called a nation. We simply have to do more to end this violence.
Legislative reforms are under way to address the inefficiencies in the criminal justice system, but these reforms have taken far too long. It is also not only legislation that needs to be reformed, but the attitude of society and the way in which this problem is handled.
The justice system in South Africa is often cold and insensitive to the plight of women who are trapped in this cycle of violence. Perpetrators are often let out on cheap bail, only to come back and torment the same women again. In court, women are forced to sit next to their abusers in a room, allowing them to be harassed and intimidated all over again.
We can and we must do better than this. There needs to be a total onslaught against perpetrators who exercise violence against women and children. Activism must start in the homes, since this is where the abuse occurs.
We need to break the silence around this issue and empower women and children with knowledge of their sexual rights. Communities must also not protect their family members who are guilty of women and child abuse, but report them to the police. Women need to be economically empowered so that they do not become dependent on an abusive relationship.
The ID would also argue for greater support for women in the form of more subsidised shelters and safe houses. A dedicated fund for vulnerable victim services must be set up which can be funded from the proceeds of asset seizures of organised crime. Also, all survivors of rape must be tested for HIV/Aids and emergency antiretroviral treatment must be made available to them.
Ultimately, though, there is a need to shift mindsets away from the culture of violence and create communities where people trust and respect each other and feel confident in reporting violent incidents, knowing that the perpetrators will be arrested and prosecuted, and where children will no longer see violence as normal in our society.
The responsibility for eradicating violence against women lies not only with government, but also with communities in the entire South African society. The ID is ready to play its part in eradicating this scourge from our society, and I hope all the members can join us in that. Thank you.
Mr L S GABELA: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy President and members of Parliament, 16 Days of Activism: No Violence Against Women is an international campaign centred around awareness of violence against women. The spate of violence against children in our country has necessitated that our focus be extended to include children, particularly the girl-child. Today our struggle has entered a new epoch, having defeated the system of racism.
Youth must proceed to occupy the front rank in the struggle for the reconstruction and development of our country to defeat of poverty and underdevelopment. In a bid to create a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society, South Africa’s problems will not have been addressed as enshrined in South Africa’s Constitution if the problems faced by women are not fully addressed. Maybe in simple terms, simple mathematics insists that women alone form the majority of our population. Therefore, you will not be able to address the problems of the country if the problems that face the majority are not fully addressed.
During the year of the volunteer for reconstruction and development, our country’s youth responded enthusiastically to the call, together with the rest of our people, to volunteer for reconstruction and development. Today we certainly cannot doubt that our youth fully accept the immense responsibility placed upon them to work alongside the government and all South Africans to make a meaningful impact in the fight against women and child abuse. As a generation destined to build a firm foundation for a better life for all, young people must play an active role in the fight against crimes committed against women and children. Young people cannot stand by when revolutionary advancements thus far are deliberately being rendered meaningless to society. There should, from now on, be greater awareness within communities with regard to women and child abuse-related issues. Let us mobilise society to address the problems of abuse against women and children. Young people must take upon themselves the responsibility to engage both young and old men in the discourse about combating domestic violence, in particular, wherever it is a red herring.
As we embrace African values, we need to discourage so-called cultural stereotypes and practices that . . . perpetuate the subjugation of women to the supremacy of men, here including sexual relations. Only then can we overcome domestic violence and abuse of women and children. These stereotypes are encouraging the backwardness that will deprive young women of the opportunity to empower themselves towards being competitive in the labour market.
Evaluations of the family exist, saying that women have always been the core of the family. It is an unnatural thing that women are still, in this day and age, victims of abuse to the degree that they are today. Towards the end of the time when people lived separate lives in a state of matriarchy in human development, women were the heads of families. And yet men were only hunting barbarians. [Laughter.] Men only dominated the family because they had economic power. They could hunt, and they could run fast and so on. It is not that they were in charge of families. In recent history, one can refer to the role of Queen Modjadji.
uMkabayi kaJama neNgcugce abenqaba ukuthi amadoda amadala aneminyaka engama- 60 aganwe yizingane ezincane nje ezisanda kuthomba. Bathi abayingeni leyo nto. [ Mkabayi, Jama’s daughter and “the Ngcugce” were the ones who rejected the notion that old men aged 60 should marry young girls who have just entered puberty. They said that they were not prepared to entertain such a practice.]
This all speaks to a positive contribution by women in our history. Human rights are not men’s rights. Women are included. [Interjections.]
Mfundisi, angizwanga ukuthi uthini. [ Mfundisi, I did not hear what you said.]
The availability of women to their male friends for dates or at centres of entertainment should not make men see or hear what had not been said only because they want to hear it from the female folk. If young women enjoy themselves, and sometimes to the extreme, which may include getting intoxicated sometimes, this should not be used to their disadvantage. Let men respect women and take women at their word. Men need not read into the actions of women what women have not articulated verbally, and this goes for young people in rural areas, urban areas and those young men at tertiary institutions in particular. I am saying in tertiary institutions in particular, because this is where date rapes mostly take place. Young women must be treated as fellow students and be protected, as they deserve to be. The contrary must not be encouraged. Hon Chairperson, I speak on these issues with some degree of authority as a father of 10 young girls. [Interjections.]
Kunezinto-ke okufanele sikhulume ngazo maqondana nokuthi kumele ziyekwe ikakhulukazi ngoba azakhi, futhi aziqukethe iqiniso elihambisana nosikompilo. Umuntu wesilisa akungathi uma ngabe umuntu wesifazane engakasho waphumela obala ukuthi uthini ngodaba lwabo yena bese ebona ukuthi kungenzeka mhlawumbe ukuthi lo wesifazane yingoba nakhu egcwele amahloni, ngaleyo ndlela akakwazi ukuthi akusho lokho okufanele. Lowo wesilisa bese ebona ukuthi, “Hhayi, mina angithathe izinyathelo ngokomzimba ukuze ngimlekelele lo muntu sihlangane lapho kufanele ukuthi sificane khona”. Bese kulokhu kuthiwa-ke, hhayi, kakade “Action speaks louder than words”. Ayikho leyo ndaba. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows)
[There are practices that we need to talk about and that we need to resolve to stop, because they are not constructive, they are not fair and they are lacking in terms of social welfare. Men should stop assuming that if a woman does not come up with a final answer, then it means that that woman is shy and thereby means consent. Then the man will decide to help this woman by arranging a place where they can meet. When a woman honours the appointment, it is assumed that she wanted it. They even say, “Actions speak louder than words”. There is no such thing.]
A date is a date and it must be limited to that. No means no, and nothing else but no.
To young women in particular, I want to say:
Asiyiyeke futhi le nto yokuthi uma ngabe umuntu wesilisa ehlukumeza umuntu wesifazane, emshaya, bese abantu bekhohlisana bethi, “Hhayi kusho ukuthi udlala uthando. Ukuthi nje uxakwe yisikhwele”. Ayikho into enjalo. Umuntu okuhlukumezayo kufanele ukwazi ukuthi umbike kwabomthetho ukuze aboshwe ngoba kusuke kuwukuhlukunyezwa lokho. Awukho umuzi owakhiwa ngenduku; alukho futhi uthando oluqiniswa ngenduku. Kunezigameko-ke eziningi ezenzakalayo okufanele ziqedwe. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[We should also refrain from the general belief that when a man abuses and assaults a woman it is because he loves her, and he is jealous. That is not true. If a person abuses you, report that person to the police so that he can be arrested. Assault is not an instrument to build a family, nor can assault strengthen love. There are so many incidents of violence which should be stopped.]
I wish to call on young people to join the ANC Youth League, as guided by its congress on the activities it is engaged in, in encouraging young people to take part in activism against the abuse of young women and children.
In conclusion, I wish to address hon Coetzee and hon Greyling. Chairperson, you will forgive me, this is my maiden speech and I happen to divert from the Westminster traditions. The problem we have is that people read the wrong books and stand up here proudly and articulate things that are wrong. What the British journal as referred to by hon Coetzee talks about is the situation of South Africa, but it does not talk about the situation of the UK. South Africa, hon Greyling, is not leading in matters of women and child abuse. If I could refer you to a South African journal survey of 2003- 04, you will find that America is leading with actual numbers of about 81 442, South Africa is next, followed by France, and the UK is last. I thank you. Read the correct books. Thank you very much.
An HON MEMBER: Is the hon member prepared to take a question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Member, it is your maiden speech; however, would you like to take a question?
Mr L S GABELA: Chairperson, I am not prepared to take a question. I can give the hon member a copy of my speech.
Ms C B JOHNSON: Madam Chair, hon Deputy President, hon members, the 16 Days of Activism campaign, which commences on the 25th of this month, shows government’s commitment to building a caring society; a society that very clearly sends a message that it rejects violence against women and children. Recent research by Amnesty International has found that in South Africa, on average, 147 women are raped per day, and it is estimated that every six days a woman is killed either by her spouse or her life partner.
Violence affects all South Africans, but in my view it affects women most severely. What is particularly disturbing is to know that the majority of the violent incidents in this country, which happen against women and children, happen in the family home itself, and that the perpetrators are, mostly, known by the victims. In other words, it is the people that they trust who are doing these things to them.
Although all of us as South Africans share the commitment to building a nonracist and nonsexist society, until the day that all women feel safe in their homes, at their places of work, at their schools, and in society at large, South Africa will, unfortunately, remain an unequal society. The purpose of the 16 Days of Activism campaign is to generate increased levels of awareness of the unacceptability of violence against women and children. It seeks to raise funds for NGOs, who do valuable work in our communities by providing shelter and support to the victims and survivors of domestic abuse.
The campaign also further actively seeks to engage with men about combating violence in our homes and in our communities. In its commitment to fighting violence against women and children, government will continue to form strategic partnerships, because this is not something that government can tackle on its own. It needs to form, and will continue to form, strategic partnerships with civil society, business, organised labour, faith-based organisations, and other sectoral partners, to help empower survivors and victims of abuse and to sensitise them with regard to their rights.
The campaign should not be seen in isolation. It is part of a bigger government initiative and part of the bigger picture. If one looks at the bigger picture, it is clear that government is continuously looking at new legislation to put on the table, to further protect and promote the rights of women and children. Bills like the Child Justice Bill, the Sexual Offences Bill, the Children’s Bill, and the Compulsory HIV Testing of Alleged Sexual Offenders Bill, will go a long way in creating the caring society that we all want to achieve. I thank you.[Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson and hon Deputy President, the ACDP supports the call for action against the abuse of women and children, but feels that more should be done than just demonstrating again for 16 days and nights. We need a sustained onslaught against this abuse in our legislation and justice systems. Many in our communities do not heed the calls to refrain from violence, because our national broadcaster promotes programmes that break down traditional family values, and desensitises our communities to violence.
The public needs more programmes that will promote decency and respect for women than those that undermine them. South Africa has a dubious reputation of being the child pornography and child prostitution capital of the world, with a vibrant child sex tourism trade. Paedophiles and child sex offenders are still getting off with light sentences in our justice system, with some judges even sighting incest or familial sexual abuse as less traumatic than abuse perpetrated by a stranger, and therefore deserving of a lesser sentence. We find this unacceptable.
According to the South African Law Reform Commission report, South Africa is one of the main countries being used as a destination for victims of human trafficking. They also point out that police and prosecutors are not sufficiently trained to deal with human trafficking. The ACDP therefore calls on government to have intensive training for our police and prosecutors, to ensure that sexual offenders get maximum penalties when their cases appear before the courts.
In closing, we call on all women who are victims of rape, violence, or sexual abuse, not to allow the unfortunate experiences to keep them from reaching their maximum potential. In spite of what may have happened to them, their value has not diminished and their contribution in the building of a strong nation is indispensable. We thank those who are already nation builders, and we want to honour them for their contribution, regardless of their painful experiences.
May those who are not victims of abuse stand alongside those victims who are battling with emotional scars and urge them on. Thank you.
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, modern society demands that all people, regardless of their gender and age, should be treated with love and respect, as they are all created in the image of God. No one has to play master over others, but unfortunately there are people who suffer at the hands of some. Women and children are the most vulnerable. There are many instances in which we learn of, and see, women being brutally assaulted.
Cases that come to mind are those of Leigh Matthews, a former student of Bond University, and Constable Rasuge of Hammanskraal. These are not the only ones, but this shows that Robert Burns’ words, “Man’s inhumanity to man, makes countless thousands mourn”, will always be here to haunt us.
It is regrettable that in spite of the stringent legislation, the Domestic Violence Act, such bestial conduct persists. What makes it more lamentable is that the National Commissioner of Police is on record as saying that the Act is not enforceable. We call on all men of substance to accept that women are roses and men are the fences around them.
Men should feel proud if they render a service to protect women. Our parents of yore have always maintained that a woman has to be treated with the greatest respect. That is why when a young man ties the knot they would sing the song:
O mo tshware hantle ke galase e a thubeha. [Treat her with great care, she is as brittle as a glass.]
If most women suffer at the hands of men, children are the worst, as they are subjected to inhuman treatment from both men and women. There is almost no day that goes by without a report to the effect that some innocent baby has been abandoned in a refuse bin, or even a pit latrine, let alone those abandoned in an open field. Women are committing all these atrocious acts.
We need to call on society at large to take to heart the United Nations’ declaration, which states that mankind owes a child the best it has to give. As adults, we have a duty and a responsibility towards children. Pastor Tinyiko Nyathi, who has taken it upon himself to raise awareness about child abuse, has to be commended and emulated.
The latest South African survey of the South African Institute of Race Relations reports that since 1994 to 2003 there has been a 56,3% increase in reported child abuse cases in this country. The only province that showed a decrease over this period is the Eastern Cape. In provinces such as the Free State, Mpumalanga, North West and Northern Cape, child abuse cases rose by 100% during the period under review. In the Northern Cape it stood at 171,9%. What about South Africa? Why do we wreck the future nation? It may please us to know that children are the most valuable natural resource.
In conclusion, we in the UCDP look forward to the day when people convicted of sexual offences against children will be entered on a special paedophile register that will be accessible to the general public so that naming them may shame them. I thank you.
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Chair, during the campaign 16 Days of Activism: Unite Against Woman and Child Abuse, we must reflect on the state of our nation and recall the many layers of violence being experienced by women and girls in this country. Physical violence, rape, domestic violence and child abuse are too many manifestations of violence against women and girls. There is emotional violence; verbal abuse; degrading and offensive comments, including from strangers on the street; the threat of physical violence in and out of the home; and the offensive media imagery which degrades women. There is also economic violence, which is manifested in social, structural and systematic arrangements.
The Free Trade Areas being negotiated through Economic Partnership Agreements and the World Trade Organisation resulted in women working in poor working conditions. Because these conditions are not regulated and do not comply with domestic labour legislation, women work long hours, get poor pay, get poor benefits, including maternity leave.
Women have given birth in factories and on farms. They are exposed to the risk of miscarriage owing to exposure to harmful pesticides, experience a high risk of delivering children who have chronic or health conditions such as asthma and lung disease, and have the stress of working under very insecure and precarious conditions.
The privatisation of education closes the opportunities for low-income families to access education. This means that parents have to choose which child to invest in, with the boy-child usually taking preference over his sisters. This results in our girl-children starting life at a disadvantage educationally, professionally, economically, etc, with the likelihood of being forced into low-paid work owing to limited educational qualifications. That is why the PAC insists on free education, especially for the poor.
Economic violence should also be examined. With regard to the protection of assets one must guard against the practice of family inheritance, which leaves the widow and her children destitute and socially stigmatised.
The separation of families to seek work is a continuing social problem as women go to factories, farms and kitchens to seek work, leaving their children and husbands behind. This results in the abuse of children by the relatives the children are left with. We must fight all forms of violence against women and children. I thank you. Izwelethu![Our country!]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Malibongwe! [Praise!] [Interjections.] Igama lamakhosikazi! [Name of women!] [Interjections.] Thank you, Madam Chair, Deputy President. To the hon Gabela I say: Congratulations on a maiden speech well done. [Applause.]
It is very nice to know and hear from the hon Coetzee of the DA that South Africa belongs to all who live in it. Yes, it does, but only since 1994 and not before. Thanks to the ANC government for giving South Africa to all who live in it. [Applause.]
Coming back to my speech, the 16 Days of Activism campaign is approximately 10 years old and is supported globally. Taking into consideration the seriousness of violence against women, this campaign is supported one hundred percent by the MF.
Violence against women and children is a major concern, and a concerted effort to stamp it out has been embarked upon. The 16 days of activism is a sure way of creating greater awareness of gender-based violence, which is a serious contravention of human rights. This fight against violence against women should be seen as part of a global effort, and this campaign is our means of linking to this global fight.
A number of events have been set from 25 November to 10 December, and it is hoped that everyone will make an effort to partake in these events to equip us with the tools to combat gender violence and to voice our support to stamp it out.
Women have suffered in all spheres of life: at home, at work, in communities, from discrimination, from unfair labour practices, from abuse, and not only have they been abused but they have also been used. We women have tolerated enough. We say: “Enough is enough”. The abuse of women and children must stop; not tomorrow, not today, but now. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms P TSHWETE: Thank you, Madam Chair. Deputy President, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and members, as we celebrate 10 years of democracy we should, as women, be very proud to say that women in South Africa are protected from all forms of abuse. The legislation that is in place has given women back their dignity and brought democracy to our homes. Be that as it may, we still experience these abuses.
The President of the ANC Women’s League, Nosiviwe Mapisa–Nqakula, said when she was the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs at the opening of IKhaya leThemba centre for victims of domestic violence in March 2004, and I quote:
Even as we celebrate the maturity of our Women’s Charter, we are aware
that many women are still experiencing domestic abuse and public
violence every day. We are alive to the many socio-economic factors
that contribute to the perpetuation of these violent crimes against
women and children.
This is a reality that many women across the world live with, even in some of our most advanced democracies. However, I must acknowledge some of the positive steps that have been taken that lead us in the direction of hope here in South Africa.
Why should we, as the ANC-led government, take violence against women and children seriously? It is because it is internationally recognised as a major human rights violation. In recognition of this, the UN General Assembly adopted the Declaration on the Elimination of Violence Against Women and also appointed South Africa as a Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women in 1994. The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Cedaw, to which South Africa is a signatory, noted in 1992 that gender discrimination includes gender violence.
In 1997, an interdepartmental team of people began to work together to draw up a document that became known as the uniform guidelines for dealing with rape and other sexual offences. Since then, there have been many other interventions by the state to combat gender-based violence and abuse. In 1998, the first SADC conference on violence against women was held in Durban, and it adopted a declaration that remains the yardstick of gender- based violence issues in most, if not all, SADC countries.
The Domestic Violence Act of 1998, which provides South Africa with its first legal definition of violence, includes physical abuse. . .
. . . ukubethwa koomama, mhlawumbi bengenzanga nto; ukuzithathela isondo. Unalo ilungelo lokuthi hayi. Kanti nokuba utshatile, kufuneka kubekho uvumelwano kwinto yonke; ukuxhatshazwa ngokwasemphefumlweni nasengqondweni, nezinye iindlela-ndlela.
Sihlalo, masiyibulele inxaxheba ethatyathwe ngurhulumente ophetheyo ngokuthi awanike amalungelo amakhosikazi, awafundise ukuze azi xa exhatshazwa.
Ndifuna ukuthi gqaba gqaba ndicacise mhlophe ukuba asingoomama bodwa abaxhatshazwayo. Uninzi lootata aluthethi. Aluthandi kuthetha. Uye ubone ngezimbo kwabanye. Mhlawumbi indoda ingangathandi ukugoduka xa ivela emsebenzini, isuke ithande ukugoduka ebusuku sele kulelwe ekhaya. Enye isela kakhulu.
Nalapha koomama kubakho abayamkelayo into yokubethwa beyenza ngathi lisiko kuba becenga umendo. Boomama nootata, thethani xa kukho ezi ngxaki. Urhulumente uzibonile yena iingxaki ezibangela ukuba oomama nootata babe ngamaxhoba. Ngaba enye yazo kukungabi nazindlu ezibizwa ngabo, nto eyenza ukuba umntu axolele ukubethwa? Yiyo loo nto kubalulekile ukuba oomama babe nelungelo lokufumana izindlu.
Yintoni ekufanele siyenze thina malungu ePalamente? Kufuneka siqokelele amaqela oomama kwiindawo esihlala kuzo. Umama uZanele Mbeki sele wasiqalela ngokuthi ahlanganise amakhosikazi eAfrika iphela. Wayibona ukuba le asingxaki yoMzantsi Afrika kuphela koko yeyeAfrika iphela. Masilande ekhondweni, makhosikazi. Masizithathe nezootata iingxaki ngoba nabo bayadlwengulwa ngoomama. [Uwele-wele.]
Ulutsha luneengxaki nangaphezu kwethu bazali. Ukudutyulwa kwabo ngabalingane ngomnye wemizekelo. Kambe ndiyafuna ukubuyela kule ngxaki yootata. Ootata abakhoyo ngabantu abantloni. Abathandi ukuthetha xa bedlwengulwe ngoomama. Thina ke singoomama sithetha phandle. Kanti ke bootata sifuna nize ngaphambili. Musani ukuthula. Thethani ukuze sinincede. [Kwahlekwa.]
Phaya ekuhlaleni sinengxaki xa kufuneka sithethe nootata singoomama. Umzekelo, ukuba ndinokuqokelela ootata bangathi kukho into etyhulu apha kum. Xa ufuna ukwenjenjalo kufuneka ufune omnye utata oza kuqokelela abanye ootata asabele iingxaki zabo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[. . . the unreasonable beating of women, sex without consent, together with emotional and psychological abuse. Women have a right to say no. Even in marriage there must be agreement in everything.
Speaker, let us be grateful to the ANC-led government for making women aware of their rights.
I briefly want to highlight that it is not women alone who are abused, but men as well. Men are silent about the abuses they endure. Their plight will be shown by their bad behaviour, for example coming home late or drinking liquor heavily.
There are women who allow suffering as a result of abuse because they say that it is part of the culture in African marriages. People must talk about these occurrences. The government has recognised some reasons for the abuse of women and men.
Might it be the lack of ownership of houses that makes victims subservient? This is the reason why women must have the right to own houses. What must be the duty of members of Parliament? We must gather women together and let them be told about their rights. Let us follow on Mrs Zanele Mbeki’s initiative of gathering African women because she saw the abuse of women on the African continent as a problem. Men’s problems must be looked at, as they suffer abuse as well. [Interjections.]
Youth is in a greater predicament than parents. Their partners take their lives.
I would like to emphasise the issue of men as victims of abuse. They tend to be quiet about their sufferings. Contrary to men, women are vocal. [Laughter.]
In our communities being a woman and summoning men to a meeting is a problem because they will never come and will label a woman as not being stable. In order to get men’s attention as women you must ask other men.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): Order! Hon member, are you rising on point of order?
Mnu M B SKOSANA: Cha, bengithanda ukubuza nje… [Mr M B SKOSANA: No, I just wish to put a question . . .]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): Hon member, you have to ask the Chair whether the speaker who is at the podium will take a question.
Mr M B SKOSANA: Would you take a question?
Nksz P TSHWETE: Ewe, ndiyabawela ukuwuthatha. [Kwahlekwa.] [Ms P TSHWETE: Yes, I am tempted to take a question [Laughter.]]
Mnu M B SKOSANA: Ngazile ukuthi uzowuthatha ngoba siyazana. [Kwahlekwa.] Bengifuna ukubuza nje ukuthi yini udadewethu uma ethi “obaba” angabheki ngale kodwa abheke ngapha ngakithi? [Uhleko.] Manje angazi-ke noma mhlawumbe uqondise kithina yini. [Uhleko.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr M B SIKOSANA: I knew that you would take it because we know each other. [Laughter.] I just wanted to ask why my sister looks in our direction, and not the other direction, when she says ‘‘fathers’’. [Laughter.] And now I do not know whether she is referring to us. [Laughter.]]
Nksz P TSHWETE: Hayi ndicela uxolo, lungu elihloniphekileyo. Ndibone ngathi uninzi lootata lukweli cala, hayi kweliya. Andiyazi ke le yokwazana. Mhlawumbi kuya kufuneka ukuba khe ityetyiswe. [Kwahlekwa.]
Xa ndigqibezela, maqabane, ndifuna ukuthi masikhuthaze urhulumente ukuba akhe iindawo zokunceda abantu bethu kwiindawo esihlala kuzo. Ewe, urhulumente uzamile, kodwa ke la maxhoba awanazindawo, ngakumbi phaya ezilalini. Sifikelela njani koomama ezilalini? Siyazi ukuba imithetho imiselwe yaze yaphunyezwa. Masiboneni ukuba xa sifikile kubantu esinyulelwe bona siza kuyigqithisa njani le miyalezo sithetha ngayo apha.
Okokugqibela, ndifuna ukuncoma amakhosikazi oMzantsi Afrika, ngakumbi awasebenza ukususela ku-1994, nawenza ukuba kubekho le mithetho. Kambe kukho into awayiphosayo nendifuna ukuyibongoza, yokuba kufuneka sikhuthaze amadoda ukuba abachaze abantwana bawo phambi kokuba asweleke, ngoba kubuhlungu ukubona emngcwabeni umntwana womntu ehleli phaya ngasemva abe esazi ukuba nguyise lo ibe inkosikazi yaloo tata ibingakhange ixelelwe ngale nyewe. Luxhaphazo lwabantwana olo. Kuyenzeka ukuba utata ahlale ejijeka yinto yokuba enabantwana ngaphandle komtshato yaye engazi ukuba uza kubondla ngantoni. Siyacela ke ukuba aba tata mababachaze abantwana babo phambi kokulishiya eli limiweyo, bangasixakekisi bakubhubha. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Ndithe xa ndiyiphakamisa le nyewe, kwathiwa abantu baza kucinga ukuba nditsho kowam. Kanti hayi, anditsho kowam.
Makhosikazi, niyidlalile indima yenu ukususela ngo-1994, mandinincome. Nasuka naya kukhusela uAmina Lawal kuxhaphazo. Ninawo amandla okuqokelela ilizwekazi leAfrika lonke. Namhlanje iingxaki zeAfrika ziphela zisingathelwa eMzantsi Afrika. Phambili maqobokazana! Siyayibona imisebenzi yenu! Siyabulela. Kambe sithi yiyani nasezilalini. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms P TSHWETE: I ask for pardon, hon member. At a glance I saw that most of the men were seated this side. I do not understand the issue of knowing each other. I would appreciate it if you could expatiate on that. [Laughter.]
In conclusion, comrades, we must encourage government to build support centres for victims of abuse in our communities. Government has tried its best, but there is still a lack of centres in the rural areas. Let us work hard to implement legislation and maintain our constituencies.
Finally, I want to show a sense of appreciation to the women of South Africa and more especially those who were in government since 1994 and helped in the making of legislation. Nevertheless, there is an issue that has been overlooked, and that is the issue of children born out of wedlock. Men must be encouraged to disclose the issue of these children to their wives before they die. It becomes sad for children to attend funerals without being known by the wives, and that is child abuse. [Applause.]
When I raised this matter, it was said that people might think that I was referring to my marriage. I am not.
Women have played their role since 1994, and they must be appreciated. They went to fight for Amina Lawal against abuse. They have the power to put together the whole of the African continent. Today, the African continent’s concerns are held in South Africa. Forward, women! We recognise your efforts. But we say, visit the rural areas as well. [Applause.]]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Deputy Chair, comrade Deputy President and hon colleagues, I was going to say that every year, the 16 Days of Activism campaign offers South Africans from all walks of life an opportunity to do the one thing that we as South Africans do very well; that is working together to find solutions to common problems.
It is unfortunate that the hon Coetzee’s input has soured the mood somewhat. His impulse to score political points at any cost is regrettable. He clearly does not understand that this campaign transcends politics, religion, culture and all the other differences that define our society.
The campaign documentation that the hon Coetzee referred to elicits the support of all the members of this House. It is not in the slightest bit prescriptive but rather encourages the supporters of the campaign to find creative ways to encourage greater awareness and to promote a national resistance to women and child abuse. He has the nerve to accuse the ANC of being divisive. The member has detracted from the spirit of this occasion. It is a real shame on the member, a shame on his party and a shame on his ilk.
The Department of Correctional Services, as government’s leading department, has been tasked by the Presidency to co-ordinate the national campaign. This implies the delivery of a campaign with an increasingly broader reach than in all preceding years. The success of our previous campaigns has been attributed to the formation of strategic partnerships between government, society, business and a variety of other valued sectoral partners, all united by a common cause to eradicate the abuse of women and children.
Over the past months, our department has been working with the Presidency, the Moral Regeneration Movement and other sectoral partners, to develop a national calendar of events that we hope will resonate throughout an even broader South African community, across the urban and rural divide.
Such a wide range of activities has been organised by role players that one simply cannot be excused from finding, at least, one way to participate in this process. This year’s calendar of events reflects the diversity of the audiences to which we must speak. It ranges from workshops in community centres at assorted venues to an imbizo with the traditional leaders, hosted by the Limpopo province.
So too, we have tried to use technology to bridge the digital divide by engaging urban and rural women across the SADC region, to our cyber dialogues project. Gender Links, supported by the GCIS, Correctional Services and strategic partners in the private sector will run daily chat room sessions with communication nodes across the SADC region.
It is an ambitious project and, already, facilitators have been trained to engage their respective communities and to formulate the inputs that will be made to a panel of experts on a daily basis for the duration of the 16 days. The Johannesburg metro, under the stewardship of executive mayor, the hon A Masondo, has provided enthusiastic support for this project.
In addition to other regional facilitators, Gender Links has also trained Gauteng-based councillors for this purpose. The councillors will bring their ward-based inputs to the cyber dialogues, each one of them contributing to the richness and depth of the discussion.
The question is often asked: what can I do to support this programme? It is for this reason that we always try to provide an interactive element in our campaign, in which government’s programme is used to raise funds for NGOs working with victims and survivors of violence.
Our Postcard Pledge campaign provides an opportunity for the general public to make a real difference, just by signing the no violence campaign. The South African Post Office has produced 800 000 pledge postcards that will become available in 500 post offices around the country from 17 November; that’s next Wednesday. Members of the public can sign the pledges and place the postcards in the specifically designated boxes provided for this purpose at the participating post offices.
To sweeten the deal, Transnet has sponsored R1 per signature for the 250 000 signatures collected. This money will be distributed via the Foundation for Human Rights to NGOs working with victims of violence. The signed postcards will be collected and displayed on a huge wall of solidarity at the cyber dialogue venue at the civic centre.
The daily growth of this wall will be monitored by the press as the anticipated commitment to the pledge develops and the participation of the public swells. As members of Parliament, you can arrange pledge ceremonies with your local post office in your community, when you return home for constituency work.
To mark the advent of the campaign, we are delighted to hear from the Deputy President that President Mbeki has agreed to deliver the keynote address at our launch ceremony in Port Elizabeth on 25 November. Here, I must thank the Premier of the Eastern Cape, who has placed a considerable capacity of her office at the disposal of the team that is organising the event.
Both this event and the closing ceremony planned for Mitchells Plain on 10 December in Cape Town have been characterised by close co-operation between the three spheres of government. I would like to thank, particularly, the executive mayors of Cape Town and Port Elizabeth for their unreserved co- operation.
In our effort to popularise the message of no violence, we have identified men and boys as singularly important partners in this campaign. It is both unhelpful and, I might add, inaccurate to cast men as the constant perpetrators and perpetual enemies of women and children. It also alienates those many good men who are committed to peace and non-violence.
This campaign will make every effort to convince men and boys of the essential positive role that they have to play in putting an end to this scourge. The formation of NGOs and professional organisations dedicated to ensuring that men and boys become proactive partners in the elimination of gender-based violence is a welcome and growing trend.
The challenge for us as South Africans is how to take this campaign beyond its 16 days and to make sure that ours is a national effort to combat violence for 365 days each year.
I would agree with one of the hon members’ inputs that the best place to start is at home. In this, the international year of the family, we should all convey the message through our own behaviour that peace begins in the home. During these coming 16 days of activism, we should take stock of our individual commitments to ending domestic violence, in terms of the way that we raise our sons and daughters and in the way in which we relate to one another in our homes. It is at home that the children learn the value of respect and dignity. They also learn and develop ideas by observing us, their parents, and in the way in which society views and treats its women.
To commemorate the year of the family, the Department of Housing will be building 16 houses for 16 women in 16 days, using the sweat equity of prison inmates who have committed to giving back to the communities from which they came. [Applause.]
Another constituency that is being drawn into the campaign is our mineworkers. In a unique participation effort between the Department of Minerals and Energy, the National Union of Mine Workers and the Chamber of Mines, an event has been arranged in Rustenburg to draw that constituency into engaging with the issues of women and child abuse.
It is important that this campaign is driven on the basis of partnership and collaboration. Together, we must expose more people to the vicious and debilitating effect of violence, not only on women and children but also on whole societies. Our effort each year must convince more people to take a stand and to become proactive agents of change and partners in the elimination of all forms of gender-based and child directed violence.
Apart from the obvious moral imperatives for supporting this campaign, we must understand that this is a development issue. The existence or even the threat of high levels of violence in any society has a direct and negative impact on that society’s ability to develop and grow.
The prevalence of gender-based and child directed violence is one of the most pernicious forms of discrimination, because it impacts directly and negatively on the ability of children to realise their universal human right to development. To acknowledge the intersection between the vulnerability to violence and disability, the Department of Sports and Recreation, the Durban city metro and the KwaZulu-Natal province have collaborated to produce a series of events that will demonstrate the achievements of disabled sports women and men in the fields of physical endeavour.
Following, as it will, on the Presidency’s national event in Limpopo on 3 December, these events clearly demonstrate our government’s commitment to mainstreaming the rights of the disabled into the national agenda. So too, the Department of Health’s national event in Cape Town on 1 December will focus on the heightened risk of people living with HIV and Aids to violence and discrimination.
Our closing ceremony will take place at Mitchells Plain on 10 December. The hon Deputy President along with Premier Rasool and several cabinet members will bring this year’s campaign to a close. The MEC of Safety and Liaison in the Western Cape, Mr Leonard Ramatlakane, has rallied the provincial role-players in a concerted effort to ensure the delivery of an event that embraces the whole community.
The event will remind us that women’s rights are human rights and that our society will never be truly free until we’ve achieved the full emancipation of women and institutionalised their equal participation in all aspects of life, in the home, in the community and in the workplace.
In the packages that you have received today, you will find a pledge postcard. Please sign it and put it into the red post boxes in the Old Assembly lobby. You will also find a white ribbon, the international symbol of solidarity for no violence against women. Please wear your ribbons for the full duration of the campaign. By wearing it, you’d be saying I care, I’m a nation builder, I’m a peacemaker and a proud South African. Thank you, very much. [Applause.]
THE IMPORTANCE OF CONSTITUENCY WORK IN A PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY
(Subject for Discussion)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, hon Deputy President and hon members, for 92 years the ANC has been the torchbearer of majority democratic rule in our country. Humanity inherited from ancient Greece the meaning of democracy, namely democratic majority rule. The ANC’s vision to build a better life for all is underpinned by its strategic perspective to build a united, nonracial, democratic, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa wherein participation in decision-making involves all people, particularly the poor.
The content of our democracy was forged in the crucible of struggle against the forces of imperialism, colonialism and apartheid in our country. In the course of our struggle, we enlisted the active support and involvement of millions of our people into a mighty army of liberation. Our compatriots organised in the UDF, civics, Cosatu and other contingents of mass formations were in reality a form of participatory democracy. At the centre of those struggles was the quest and desire for a form of government premised on the values and norms of participatory democracy so aptly articulated in the Freedom Charter when it says, “the people shall govern”.
Participatory democracy is about the involvement of the people in determining their destiny. The processes leading to the adoption of the Freedom Charter have profound lessons for all public representatives when considering the approach to constituency work. In order for people to govern effectively, they need to be informed about the programmes, policies and the legislative framework that regulate and govern their lives, day-to- day activities and business. It is in this context that we submit that public representatives should be like the olden day volunteers who conducted door-to-door campaigns to provide the people with the opportunity to define the kind of country and world they wanted to live in.
This fundamental lesson of the Freedom Charter is that South Africans designed and crafted their future. Our democratic Constitution embraces the aspirations of the Freedom Charter and provides a framework for their progressive realisation. Our Constitution embodies a justifiable Bill of Rights and institutions that support constitutional democracy.
The ANC has transformed the institution of Parliament into a Parliament of the people. Our people have spoken loud and clear in three successive elections. The development of our country is shaped by our concrete historical circumstances. What this means is that universal lessons on democracy must be indigenised in the material conditions of South Africa. Furthermore, the ANC has reinvented indigenous forms of African democracy, such as izimbizo, in the material conditions of the 21st century. Izimbizo are a powerful platform of accountability and transparency. Izimbizo afford constituencies the opportunity to give feedback on the implementation of government programmes. On the other hand, government representatives get the opportunity to listen to the views of their constituencies.
The fact that the Presidency, Ministers, Premiers, members of Parliament, members of provincial legislatures, councillors and government officials jointly address izimbizo necessarily make these a qualitatively higher form of participatory democracy. Izimbizo, as a form of participatory democracy, are an integral part of the African Renaissance movement.
By adopting the Reconstruction and Development Programme, the ANC buttressed participatory democracy as a way of life in the reconstruction and development of postapartheid South Africa. Thus, in 1994, in capturing the letter and spirit of the RDP we said that our people, with their aspirations and collective determination, are our most important resource. The RDP is focussed on our people’s most immediate needs and it relies, in turn, on their energies to drive the process of meeting these needs.
Regardless of race or sex, or whether they are rural or urban, rich or poor, the people of South Africa must together shape their own future. Development is not about the delivery of goods to a passive citizenry. It is about active involvement and growing empowerment. In taking this approach we are building on the many forums, peace structures and negotiations that our people are involved in throughout the land.
In the context of the RDP, how do we understand constituency work? Central to the notion which says “the people shall govern” is the symbiotic relationship between the vanguard and the people; and in the case of parliamentary work, it is the symbiotic relationship between the people’s representatives and their constituencies. The ANC’s conceptualisation of constituency work locates the ANC as a revolutionary movement at the head of a patriotic effort to build a people’s contract, to create work and to fight poverty.
Increasingly, constituency work should, and will, occupy centre stage in the work of the legislatures. Necessarily, as we pursue the objectives of solidifying the people’s contract, the challenge of strengthening the participative interaction between Parliament and the people becomes the fulcrum of parliamentary activities. The task of participatory democracy is active involvement of the people in matters of governance.
Constituency work transcends party political partisanship. The partisanship we embrace as the ANC is a people-driven process of empowerment and delivery of services to the poorest of our people, both as guarantor of a future and a moral imperative that defines our spirit of ubuntu. This perspective is non-negotiable. Essentially, we are saying that constituency work should enable legislators to interact with diverse stakeholders.
The purpose of constituency work is to foster nation-building and citizen participation in the broad effort of reconstruction and development. Placing the people at the centre of development is the essence of Batho Pele and is Africa’s contribution to the notion of democracy. This new approach to parliamentary democracy requires a mindset shift. Indeed, it requires a radical break with traditional notions of restricting citizen participation to periodic elections. Participatory democracy regards citizens as partners in the totality of the development effort. Parliament, as the cradle of democracy, has a responsibility to challenge institutions that buttress constitutional democracy to follow suit and to locate at the centre of their activities the people’s interests as well as their active participation.
The media need to reflect, understand and define their role in the context of fostering a people-driven development. We are arguing that it is not essentially market forces that determine our destiny on the issues of democracy. On the contrary, we suggest that the benefits of human culture must be harnessed to give effect to the assertion that the people shall govern.
In our view, the new approach to constituency work affords Parliament immeasurable possibilities to unleash the energies of our people in the reconstruction and development agenda. The achievement of this patriotic duty will enhance nation-building, and contribute to the African Renaissance and the new world order.
I have limited time at my disposal, but there are other important issues that we needed to reflect on. The level of resource support for members to carry out their constituency work seems quite inadequate. The very same capacity of constituency offices seems to be limited. The mode of operation of parliamentary constituency offices needs overhauling. These offices close exactly at a time when the very clientele they intend to serve are either at work or at home. We need a suitable arrangement for constituency offices that is consistent with our kind of democracy. Our constituency office system seems to be based on the magisterial district boundary constituency approach that is completely inadequate to reach our people properly.
Regarding broadcasting issues, I am still amazed as to why almost all constituency offices do not have digital satellite television to enable constituents at that level to engage with Parliament fully and not only be limited to the half slots provided by the SABC.
All in all, we need to have a new model of constituency work that we need to collectively reshape. At its centre must be the ability to communicate the programmes we are engaged in and involve people in decision-making. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mnr T D LEE: Mnr die Voorsitter, mnr die Adjunkpresident, dames en here, dit is voorwaar ironies dat ons vandag oor kiesafdelingwerk praat terwyl ons Grondwet nie eintlik voorsiening maak vir kiesafdelings nie. Miskien is dit in ‘n mate erkenning daarvan dat ons kiesstelsel nie ten volle aan die vereistes van ons land voldoen nie.
Die DA glo dat die beste manier van verteenwoordiging op parlementêre vlak
- nasionaal, sowel as provinsiaal - geskoei moet wees op die model wat tans op die plaaslike regeringsvlak van toepassing is, met ander woorde, ‘n kombinasie van ‘n kiesafdeling- of wykstelsel en ‘n proporsionele lysstelsel.
Die proporsionele lysstelsel is baie inklusief van aard en verseker dat elke stem tel, al het ‘n party nie beduidende steun nie. Die kiesafdelingstelsel, op sy beurt, gee die kieser die geleentheid om direk vir ‘n kandidaat te stem wat, volgens sy of haar oordeel, die beste na die kiesers se belange sal omsien.
Ons moet onthou dat die deursnit-kieser nie ‘n baie hoë dunk van politici het nie. Luister, Manie, die deursnit-kieser het nie ‘n baie hoë dunk van politici nie. Hulle dink dat ons bra oneerlik, onproduktief en hopeloos oorbetaald is. In sekere mate het ons net onsself vir dié beeld te blameer, terwyl ons huidige kiesstelsel, waar niemand eintlik vir ‘n gebied verantwoordelik gehou kan word nie, ook van die skuld moet dra.
Ongeag die kiesstelsel moet ons te alle tye ons verkiesingsbeloftes nakom. Luister, Manie, as ons dit nie doen nie, verloor die kiesers nie net vertroue in en respek vir die politici nie, maar voel hulle ook dat die stelsel hulle in die steek laat. In so ‘n geval kan die kiesers òf apaties word, òf oorgaan tot geweld en protes - en ons weet wat in die Vrystaat gebeur het, wat alreeds op ‘n paar ander plekke in ons land gebeur het. Ons moet onthou dat daar baie behoeftige mense in ons land is. Vir hierdie mense is hul openbare verteenwoordigers hul laaste toevlug en hoop. Ons mag hulle nie versaak nie, Manie.
Die DA neem hierdie verantwoordelikheid, genome dienslewering, baie ernstig op. So ernstig dat ons van alle DA-openbare verteenwoordigers, dit wil sê LP’s, LPW’s, sowel as raadslede, verwag om ‘n prestasie-ooreenkoms, ‘n “performance”-kontrak, te onderteken en hulle te onderwerp aan ‘n streng gedragskode. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr T D LEE: Mr Chairman, Mr Deputy President, ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed ironic that we talk of constituency work today whilst our Constitution does not even cater for constituencies. Perhaps this is an acknowledgement, to a certain degree, that our electoral system does not fully comply with the requirements of our country.
The DA believes that the best method of representation at the parliamentary level, nationally as well as provincially, must be fashioned on the model that is currently applicable at the local government level, in other words, a combination of a constituency or ward system, as well as a proportional list system.
The proportional list system is of a very inclusive nature and ensures that each vote counts, even though a party has no significant support. The constituency system, on the other hand, provides the voter with the opportunity to vote directly for a candidate who, in his or her judgement, will best look after the interests of the voters.
We must remember that the average voter does not have a very high regard for politicians. Listen, Manie, the average voter does not have a very high regard for politicians; they regard us as being dishonest, unproductive and hopelessly overpaid. To a certain degree we have only ourselves to blame for this image, whilst our present electoral system, where nobody can actually be held responsible for an area, should also shoulder some of the blame.
Notwithstanding the electoral system, we have to honour our electoral promises at all times. Listen, Manie, if we do not do this, the electorate will not only lose faith in and respect for politicians, but will also feel that the system has left them in the lurch. In this case, the electorate could either become apathetic or resort to violence - and we know what happened in the Free State, as has happened in a few other places in our country. We must remember that there are a lot of poor people in our country. To these people, their public representatives are their last resort and hope.
The DA takes this responsibility, service delivery, very seriously. So seriously that we expect all DA representatives, in other words, MPs, MPCs, as well as councillors, to sign a performance agreement, a performance contract, and to subject themselves to a strict code of conduct.]
The DA requires its public representatives to maintain the highest standards of ethical behaviour, and any incidence of corruption, fraud, improper inducement, nepotism, dishonesty or similar offence on the part of any public representative will lead to disciplinary action. We implore, and I challenge, the ANC to say and do the same.
The DA is determined and committed to serve its voters and indeed all the people of this country, whether it is in Parliament, the legislatures, city councils or the constituencies. I thank you. [Applause.]
Rev K M ZONDI: Chairperson, constituency work is usually taken for granted, and it is a given in many established democracies throughout the world. It is taken for granted because members of Parliament, in a representative democracy, directly represent the people who elected them.
South Africa is also a democracy in which both our National Assembly and provincial legislatures are elected according to a party list system. This system has its own advantages and disadvantages. The greatest advantage of our electoral system is that it ensures representation of the smallest of parties, which otherwise would not be represented in our Parliament or provincial legislatures if we had a first-past-the-post electoral system.
The rationale underlying our electoral system is to strengthen multiparty democracy and to accommodate the diverse range of voices of constituencies. The drawback of the system is that it does not allocate a member to a particular geographical area. The electorate elects a party, rather than a specific individual.
When we arrived here in 1994 we soon realised that something had to be done to keep Parliament in direct contact with the electorate. Due to the absence of a constituency element in our electoral system political parties were implored to allocate members to specific geographical areas. It is generally agreed that it is a matter of vital importance for members of Parliament to perform constituency work in order to ensure that the people’s aspirations and concerns are heard in Parliament. It was for this reason that Parliament made resources available to enable members to do their constituency work.
It is of course debatable whether resources for constituency work are enough. Whilst there are resources for members to travel to and within their constituencies, it is far from clear if they are sufficient for those that lie in areas that are, in terms of infrastructure, difficult to traverse. One therefore wonders if consideration can be given to rearranging the parliamentary programme so that there is enough time for MPs to spend time in their allocated constituencies.
Parliamentarians could, for example, sit for six solid months, from February to June, and for the rest of the year undertake constituency work. Alternatively, Parliament could sit for three months at a time and then allocate a full month for constituency work on an ongoing basis. This is especially important if Parliament is to make a significant contribution to our developmental state and to enhance participatory democracy.
The Van Zyl Slabbert task team recommended a mixed electoral system, with a quorum of members who would be directly elected and then topped up with a list system, to ensure proportionality. This is so that every vote counts. This report unfortunately appears to have fallen by the wayside. Interestingly, the late Lord Roy Jenkins recommended such a system in Britain, the so-called additional member system, when he chaired the Jenkins Commission, established by Prime Minister Tony Blair in 1998.
Understandably, ruling parties with large majorities are often content to leave the status quo as it is. I think this is short-sighted. The IFP believes the time has come to craft an electoral system that retains the best elements of proportional representation. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Mr G T MADIKIZA: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, constituency work has been identified as an important obligation for every member of Parliament. Consequently it has been elevated, as a prominent feature of the parliamentary programme, to formally create the time for members to visit their constituencies. Funding is specifically provided to ensure that members can operate offices in their constituencies.
The Constitution of South Africa specifically calls for participatory democracy. This therefore means that we must create a system that allows citizens to participate in a democracy on a far wider scale than merely turning up every five years to cast their votes. It is for this reason that public participation in parliamentary committees is enshrined in our Constitution, and why the media are allowed to freely report on the proceedings of this institution.
We must recognise that even these measures are not sufficient to foster a true participatory democracy. That is why constituency work is important. Most citizens do not have the luxury of time and resources to travel to this institution and participate in our proceedings. Therefore, we must go to them and create mechanisms through which they can access their public representatives.
Undoubtedly, we are expected to perform many duties as parliamentarians, but we cannot shirk constituency work. There are constituency offices across party lines, which have become an integral part of the communities in which they operate. These constituency offices are a first port of call for people who struggle to access or understand basic government services, such as ID and social grant applications.
These offices also assist those people who have, for various reasons, become disillusioned with the notoriously slow and often uncaring bureaucracies of certain government departments and institutions. Often, reports of gross administrative injustices are brought to these offices where the relevant member can approach the responsible Minister and have the matter resolved. I thank you, hon Chair. [Time expired.]
Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, members of Parliament are most likely to represent constituents’ interests when, firstly, they know precisely where their constituents are; secondly, they interact with them frequently; thirdly, their political future depends on gaining and keeping their seats in Parliament; and lastly, they find a balance between parliamentary work and conversing with their constituents.
While some leaders speak in the abstract about the people, legislatures in a functioning democracy usually see constituents as people from whom they can learn how government policies are working and whose support they value. Members of Parliament with strong ties to constituents are more likely to think about policies in terms of how they affect the people they represent.
The question of how well government is working is answered by how well their constituents fare under government policies. The commitment to the electorate is vastly different between a list-based MP and a constituency- based MP. List members place less emphasis on constituency work in the absence of a direct constituency link. This is because the electoral fate depends more on securing a high position on the party list than securing a vote from their constituents.
MPs will have an easier time representing and interacting with their constituents when they have the necessary resources. We need more resources. The ID believes that Parliament should review the funding formula for the constituency allowance so that it is fair and reasonable. There is also no need to wait for the law to be changed to service constituencies. We can start in the meantime, while we wait for the law.
I want to agree with the hon Musa Zondi that the parliamentary programme must be changed so that we have 50% parliamentary work and spend 50% of our time in our constituencies, in order to come back here and represent and formulate policies according to the needs. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M M MADUMISE: Chairperson, hon members, the most visible demonstration of the linkage between an elected representative and his or her constituency in modern democracies is the manner in which he or she engages in constituency work with the electorate. Between elections this can be regarded as the glue that holds democracy together.
The nature and strength of the linkage between public representatives and citizens is a key foundation upon which effective, enduring, and stable democratic regimes are built. In taking this opportunity today to discuss this critical issue, let us keep in mind the search for a practical answer to the question as to how best our elected representatives can reflect the interests of our citizens in a manner that is both just and fair.
The focus for democracy is anything but certain as we look to the twenty- first century. Today we are faced with a new set of democracy challenges, perhaps greater than those of our recent past. The task is no longer to make the world safe for democracy, as Woodrow Wilson proclaimed almost a century ago, but rather to safeguard our essential democratic values. This shift is reflected in the current literature, which, upon review, brings to mind Rousseau’s saying, which goes: “Liberty is a food easy to eat, but hard to digest.”
As we celebrate our advance towards a better life for our people, we do so conscious of the fact that our strength should continue to reside in our mass character. Therefore the involvement of the masses should be at the centre of our strategy to consolidate and advance the gains we have made so far. Our oversight practices should reflect this. In carrying out our oversight function, we must continue to ensure and strengthen the involvement of all the sectoral formations among the motive forces.
Social dialogue and partnership with civil society was a pillar of the liberation struggle in South Africa. It is instructive for us to see the importance of nongovernmental agencies in formulating and shaping their own future. Trade unions joined forces with civil society, and this partnership set a clear agenda for democracy in the country. Constituency work, therefore, should not be contextualised outside of the means that defeated apartheid. Instead we should consolidate a strong fold of partnerships with civil society in order to understand the real challenges of our people as we continue to liberate this country.
We should remember that civil organisations cultivate the programmes that focus on the grassroots and are strongly biased towards the poor in the process of fighting and pushing the frontiers of poverty, and with a vision to build a vibrant democratic order. At the heart of these partnerships there should be campaigns and instruments to render the apartheid machinery ineffective.
Socio-economic conditions in the country must be such that the regime is well-balanced. As members of Parliament we have the responsibility to ensure that the programmes in our communities are within the ambit of government policy, that government is supporting these initiatives, and that such initiatives are well-publicised and effective.
Oversight and constituency work are important legislative tools available to us as MPs to make sure that we are fulfilling our commitment to a better life by addressing the inequities created over centuries of colonial domination. In discussing our approach to oversight and constituency work, we need to make sure that in its content and form it is capable of consolidating and advancing the democratic gains we have made.
Constituency work is a must in any democratic society. Describing a good constituency member is difficult; it’s perplexing and confusing to define. Many of us are called on to play a multitude of roles within a constituency, as welfare officers, development facilitators, postmen, powerful friends, benefactors, safety valves, listeners, redressers of wrongs and even teachers. In the end, it is the constituents themselves who ultimately decide the roles that we as elected representatives must play. Yet it is a decision that can only be exercised on the basis of an elected representative who has established a visible and tangible presence in a community.
No constituency system, no matter how well-designed, can meaningfully be implemented without the presence of the elected representative in the life of the constituency. No system, no matter how ingenious or sophisticated, can replace or substitute the effective involvement of an elected representative in the lives of the community. The question we should, therefore, be asking is: Which constituency system would be most likely to ensure that elected representatives take seriously all the roles they must play in the life of a community? Technology does not comprise of the Internet only, but also of media technology such as radio, fax and TV.
There is a lack of infrastructure and massive logistics are needed to maintain and sustain technological connectivity as a basis of information for our constituency offices. As members of Parliament we must be able to download important information from our networks and provide it to our constituency offices. In provinces where 70% to 80% of the population live in rural areas where there is a lack of basic infrastructure such as telephones and electricity, how can this technology be applied? It then becomes our responsibility as public representatives and servants of our people, in the fight to make a better life for all, to ensure that we provide relevant information through the meetings that we hold with our constituencies, even through local radio stations and by word of mouth.
The door-to-door campaign should be continuous. However, it should be better structured. Even in the few major cities where Internet cafes have sprung up in their dozens, going online is still a costly venture. The emphasis of a new approach to constituency work should be on direct interaction with our people through the continuation of our election strategy of door-to-door campaigning.
The key objective of such a campaign must be to mobilise the whole constituency, irrespective of political affiliation, around the ANC’s programme of transformation and also to deal with the challenges I have mentioned above, with respect to the utilisation of information versus the scarce resources.
To do so, our constituency offices must have a programme that clearly speaks to the needs of the majority of the people in the constituency. The ANC’s programme of action forms the basis of all our constituency offices’ programmes.
South Africans are united by one quality that overshadows all others: they are “can-do” people. They defied the doomsday predictions of 1994 and came up with a historic political solution that astonished the world. Now they are working together to achieve refreshing and different socio-economic solutions, which will again be an inspiration to the world.
I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that there have, recently, been increasing calls for change to the constituency system for public representatives in South Africa and these have come from political parties, civil society and the media.
Let me be the first to remind my political opponents - such as the DA, here, and the media - that they do not have sole monopoly of these calls for change and that the ANC is not unaware of or insensitive to the issue of its obligation to its constituency.
Our key priority as members of Parliament and members of the ANC is to develop a programme of action on oversight and constituency work that will contribute towards the implementation of our national objectives.
In developing such a programme of action, we must constantly remind ourselves that the legacy of inequality, which has been built up over many centuries, cannot be eradicated in a short time. I want to remind you of former President Nelson Mandela’s last speech to Parliament in which he indicated the need to change to a more constituency-based approach in consolidating the democratic gains that have been made in South Africa since 1994. The former President’s statement should come as no surprise as this has been, and still is, very much a subject of concern in the ongoing debate within the ANC as to how we can best represent and serve the interests of our people.
Also, more recently as an expression of this concern, you will note that a greater commitment has been made in the legislative programmes for elected members to engage in longer periods of constituency work after stiffer penalties have been lavished on those who saw fit not to engage in any form of meaningful constituency work.
Regarding these calls for change to our current system of proportional representation, I would like to say that this House is the opportune place for all of us present here, irrespective of our differences and strongly held viewpoints, to reflect critically not only on where we find ourselves now, but also on the potential consequences and implications that these calls for change hold for our democracy.
It is our duty to align our constituency work with the broad strategic framework of the ANC. The area where this principle has to find broad expression is in our oversight and constituency work. Underpinning the programmes of our constituency offices should be an effective co-ordinating system that links the constituency office with ward committees, branch councillors, MPs, MPLs, community development workers and our allied organisations.
In his article on the growth of the constituency role of the MP in British politics Norton writes, and I quote:
The relationship between members of Parliament and their
constituencies is subject to no formal rules. There is no official job
description. What constituents appear to expect of their MPs and what
the MPs have done over the years, in response to the demands or
perceived needs of the constituency, have varied.
However, this should not be read in terms that indicate that any exercise in engaging in constituency work by elected representatives is doomed to end in chaotic and abject failure. It has been documented in the media that many South African MPs, in spite of the absence of clear guidelines, have had to discover juristically, through trial and error, what makes a good constituency member. We need to constantly review the manner in which we have been doing things to ensure that as a movement we have a strategic response to the challenges of the next 5 years and 2014. Amandla! [Power!]
HON MEMBERS: Awethu! [Ours!] Applause.]
Adv A H GAUM: Chairperson, the visible participation of MPs in constituency work is crucial to revitalise a link between communities and Parliament. Many South Africans do not know whom their representatives are and are, as a result, not adequately represented. Our challenge is to establish a very real working relationship between the electorate and the elected.
Parliament needs to empower and encourage communities to hold the MPs accountable. This can, inter alia, be done by providing the names and details of MPs who have been assigned to constituency areas to the local media, local associations and institutions and also by making more funds available to ensure that people are introduced to their MPs.
The hon Lee argues that the introduction of elements of a constituency- based system will end the shortcomings regarding accountability. But this could lead to most constituency MPs coming from two or three parties exclusively and it could draw an undesirable distinction between two classes of MPs, namely constituency MPs and the others. More than any electoral system, could guarantee accountability, Parliament, its members and political parties have to establish a culture of accountability and promote visible constituency work.
The hon Dr Pallo Jordan indicated correctly that political parties have an important role in this regard. He says MPs are accountable to parties, which in turn are accountable to the electorate. Therefore, all parties must put mechanisms in place to hold MPs accountable and to ensure an active constituency presence.
Dr Frene Ginwala says accountability between the electorate and political parties can be enhanced by establishing more effective constituency offices. However, parties cannot be expected to do this on their own, and MPs cannot become as effective as they should be if better financial support is not provided, as also referred to by the hon Chief Whip.
We should take a serious look at the resources available to MPs. In many other democracies MPs have a much better support base and this means a better quality of service in terms of constituency work and parliamentary performance. Effective constituency work can make a substantial contribution to facilitate public involvement so that the challenges of transformation and development in South Africa can be met and the needs of our people addressed.
If communities perceive their MPs as distant, absent beings without an interest in their wellbeing, our democracy will no doubt run into trouble. MPs must be seen as active participants in their local communities to strengthen participatory democracy. If this is realised we will indeed succeed in bringing Parliament closer to the people and in giving meaning to the peoples contract the hon Chief Whip referred to. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, constituency work has become a cardinal part of a parliamentarian’s work. In our modern democratic society with its swift and accurate communication tools at our finger tips, especially e-mail and the universal use of the cellphone in South Africa, it is very easy for our constituents to articulate their views on political issues on a regular basis.
What do we mean by a participatory democratic society? We know it does not mean that the constituent has the right to vote once every five years, and we know it entails a much more ongoing dynamic process. Our former Speaker, Dr Ginwala, once wrote in the foreword to A People’s Government - The People’s Voice, that democracy requires that citizens should be continuously engaged in governance through interaction with those who make decisions - our constituents. Marking a ballot and dropping it into a ballot box once every five years is an important element of democracy, but it is only one step in the process of building a society that generally serves the interests of all its people. Those who are elected to make policy and laws on behalf of the people are required to fulfil their mandate in continuous consultation and dialogue with the citizens on whose behalf they act. That is constituency work.
Suzanne de Villiers, who also writes in the same publication that was produced by the Parliamentary Support Programme, says that unlike direct democracy it does not imply that every decision taken by government must first be subjected to a public referendum. Nor, however, does it mean that the right and responsibility for political decision-making is relinquished to a collective of elected representatives. Participatory democracy is a form of representative democracy in which citizens are actively involved in the decision-making processes of government.
And this, colleagues, is why we as public representatives have constituency offices. We must be able, through these offices, to bring Parliament and government closer to the people. We have a responsibility to keep our constituencies informed about the most important decisions taken by government and to remain a channel between the people and Parliament. Our constituents must know, amongst other things, how democracy works, how Parliament functions, how laws are passed and which laws are passed, the importance of the national budget and how that budget impacts on their daily lives. All these matters we as MPs must take to our constituents.
In closing, if we want to remain the voice of the people, we must know the heartbeat of the people. Colleagues, when Parliament rises tomorrow let us return to our constituencies to serve them. I thank you.
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chair, as members of Parliament - no matter which political party a politician comes from - we are expected to play an active role in the development of local communities. There is a debate amongst our people at grass-roots level, which centres around the electoral system and the role of MPs outside Parliament. There is no doubt that the issues raised interrogate the role of MPs in the affairs of local communities and their accountability.
We know for a fact that MPs get to Parliament via a party list and consequently are accountable to their parties. But in reality MPs should be accountable to the communities they serve as they are viewed as elected representatives. Their expectations do, in a way, overlook party membership and is developmental in approach. It is within this context that parliamentarians should approach their constituency work with one thing in mind and that is that our people, irrespective of party affiliation, deserve to be served.
Constituency work is the pillar of participatory democracy. It enables and empowers communities to exercise their rights through a mandate given to the parliamentarians. It simply means that we have to do our work with diligence and not treat such breaks from Parliament as paid holidays to run our private affairs.
It is also alleged that since the MPs come to Parliament via parliamentary lists and get deployed in constituencies where they are not known it limits their interaction with such communities. [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N T GODI: Madam Chairperson, comrades and hon members, the PAC welcomes this debate, as it will hopefully demystify a few things. There are those out there who think that constituency periods mean holidays, and there are those around here who, limited by empiricist perspectives, think that because of our proportional representation system there is no linkage or accountability to the popular masses.
Our country has been a democracy for the past decade, and there has been a dramatic shift in the relationship between the people and institutions of state. Transparency, accountability and participation have been the guiding principles which have given society a platform and a voice.
The changes that have been effected at this institution of Parliament have indeed transformed it into a people’s Parliament. It has been transformed from a frozen, cold and anti-people institution to a warm and accessible people’s Parliament. Such transformation was necessary and objective and is by no means complete. The vision of building an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the people can only be realised if Parliament debates and resolve issues that arise from the people, and pass legislation that responds to their needs.
The revolutionary Maoist line has taught us that our line must always arise from the masses and be informed by their needs. This is only possible if we interact with them and create platforms and infrastructure for them to air their views. The views of the people and our observations should by and large form the content of our work here. From the people, back to the people - that is the correct Maoist line.
The PAC therefore looks forward to a situation where, with less legislation to pass, more time could be spent on oversight and constituency work. Constituency work gives parliamentarians an opportunity to check the impact and effectiveness of the laws that we pass. It also gives people an opportunity through popular forums to continuously mandate their representatives to indeed be their delegated placeholders. Such an approach enhances the democratic system qualitatively.
We look forward to a situation where motions passed and topics debated here arise from our experience in doing constituency work. This House must be able to direct government departments to take particular measures arising out of our debates, informed by our constituency work experiences and observations. This would enhance our democratic system beyond mere bourgeois parliamentarianism.
Constituency work must not be merely about going to the people and informing them about what is unfolding in Parliament. It is more about how we take their input forward to inform our work in the legislative chambers. For those of us who come from the liberation movement tradition, mass work is a norm. However, there are challenges of capacity that need to be addressed in terms of resource allocation, especially for those of us whose geographic constituencies are so vast that they are barely manageable.
Our quest is for a people’s democracy that is a participatory one, and we believe that constituency work properly done and given its space in our legislative work can go a long way in enhancing the participatory character of our democracy. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Chair, we were all voted into authority by persons who have confidence in us representing their wants and needs. These needs and wants are being met through our dedication and commitment to address the issues and challenges of South Africa.
It is through our constituency work that we become aware of our challenges and the issues to be addressed. Furthermore, we are able to approach these challenges with hands-on techniques, as we allow for a platform where MPs and the community can interact. This not only gives the community the assurance of our commitment to serving them, but also reassures us that we are on the right track.
This interaction further facilitates a confidence in the citizenry that we are a government for the people, by the people, and allows for inputs on strategies and concerns to be incorporated in national proceedings, policies and legislation.
I couldn’t agree more with the hon Patricia De Lille when she said we must spend 50% of our time in our constituencies. To implement and discharge our constituency work to the fullest, more time is required.
The MF feels that Parliament should have a relook at its programme in respect of portfolio committee meetings and sitting days in Parliament and, if possible, allow members of Parliament to spend more time in their constituencies. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Deputy Chairperson, for the past ten years our country has been in the process of creating a political, social and economic framework around which development and participation, especially by the poor, can take place. Azapo understands that the reason for this is to enable the poor and the vulnerable in our society to participate in changing their environment and their status in society for the better. At the same time, it is to enable society as a whole to deal with poverty.
Furthermore, Azapo believes that central to the enhancement of a meaningful and better life for the poor is the eradication of poverty at all corners of our country. In Azapo’s terms constituency work and activities should be linked to the developmental strategy that should lead to equitable growth in the personal and collective capacities of the poor, and not merely as a means to access government services. We are saying this because we have noticed a tendency to regard constituency work and activities as a means to gain votes and support. For as long as this remains the focus of our constituency work, the talk about integrated development and the improvement of the lives of the poor is meaningless.
This requires public representatives to change their mindset and begin to see constituency work as a collective effort by representatives of all parties to enhance the lives of the poor in our society. To this end, Azapo urges Parliament to increase resources and time to enable public representatives to perform their functions maximally.
The role of Parliament and parties is also very crucial in that they act as facilitators to make resources available in such a way that the resources are directed at changing the material circumstances of the poor.
Constituency work therefore should put the poor at centre stage, with the priority being the ongoing struggle to improve their circumstances. The success of constituency work can only be judged by the way in which it is capable of transforming the material conditions of the poor and the vulnerable of our country. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Chairperson, while representative democracy implies the election of representatives to legislatures where they represent the interests of the constituencies, participatory democracy extends this to include the participation of civil society in government. This may be done directly through public hearings or through the voices of elected members of legislatures. In the latter case, it implies that members of Parliament must consult with and represent individuals and organisations within their areas of responsibility in the constituencies allocated to them by their respective parties. In this way, citizens obtain a voice in Parliament.
The responsibilities of MPs are divided between their work in Parliament as legislators and their work in constituencies. Within the constituencies they have a very important oversight function and form the link between government and the people.
Members of Parliament can be expected to deal with many issues, from assisting members of the public with their applications and enquiries regarding pensions, passports and child grants to visiting police stations, hospitals and schools as part of their oversight function.
It is bad for multiparty democracy when public representatives are refused access to state institutions, as is often the case in South Africa. Opposition MPs are often refused access to institutions such as schools and hospitals. Some civil servants have even been instructed not to corporate with MPs or the public. This makes oversight and accountability impossible and defeats the purpose of both participatory and representative democracy. If public representatives are denied access to information in this manner, then one can understand the frustration of ordinary citizens.
Participatory democracy should not be a concept, but a way of life. It should be a way of decentralising democracy. But, as such, it is in direct conflict with the ANC’s policy of democratic centralism. Democracy is meant to supply legitimate mechanisms through the system of public representation to deal with problems at grass-roots level. It is when this mechanism is ignored that mayors, MECs, Ministers and the President require bodyguards.
Until the ANC shifts its policy from elite participation to mass participation, the August Revolution that began in Intabazwe in Harrismith and spread to other towns will escalate. These events could have been prevented if MECs and Ministers took the trouble of reading and reacting to letters from both public representatives and the public.
The ANC government will not be able to muzzle the people by muzzling their democratically elected representatives. We will not allow the Parliament of all the people to become the parliament of a power hungry President. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, hon members, next week Parliament will rise until January next year. A long period has been set aside for constituency work. In this debate the Chief Whip and the hon member Madumise have outlined the philosophical approach of the ANC to constituency work and the role of public representatives. They have spoken at length about the notion that the people will govern, of participatory democracy and of people-centred and people-driven development. I am not going to elaborate further on those themes.
It is heartening that most members of this House who have spoken have demonstrated that there is a clear consensus amongst all members of the need and the importance of constituency work. In discussing the vision and mission of Parliament, all parties showed that they are in agreement on certain basic values. All parties are agreed that we must have a people’s Parliament to transform an entire society, establishing a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights; a Parliament of freely elected representatives, building on a foundation of a democratic and open society.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, won’t you please take your seat?
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, we would like to know if the hon member would take a question.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, at the end of my speech, if there is time. [Interjections.]
At Parliament are freely elected representatives building on the foundation of a democratic and open society based on the will of the people and their participation and access to Parliament. This is a people’s Parliament - educating, informing and involving the people of South Africa in its processes and acting as a voice of the people; a people’s Parliament co- operating with other spheres of government as it deepens and entrenches our democratic values; a people’s Parliament, working with continental and international bodies to create a new democratic and participatory world order. . . [Interjections.] . . . a people’s Parliament passing good laws and scrutinising and overseeing executive action as it moves to improve the quality of life of the people of South Africa, building a united, democratic South Africa; a people’s Parliament creating a better life for all.
That is what we discussed in our deliberations about the vision and mission of Parliament, and I think there is broad consensus on these broad underlying ideals. There might be differences around the wording, and those we are busy discussing. But if we take that as the point of departure for our Parliament, then clearly it is showing that a lot more emphasis needs to be placed on the oversight and accountability role of Parliament.
Within that we need to see constituency work as a key component, and that must then be reflected in a number of ways in which Parliament functions, or tries to live out this vision and mission. It must be reflected, first and foremost in the allocation of resources. At the moment, each member gets approximately R7 500 a month to run a constituency office. [Interjections.] Clearly that cannot be sufficient if we are serious about real constituency work.
Members must be provided with the resources to open and establish proper offices, in the case of some vast rural constituencies perhaps more than one office. Those offices need to be staffed appropriately, both administratively and politically, in order to allow members to reach out actively to the constituencies that they serve, to capture the issues that those constituencies have raised and to follow-up and make sure that those issues are attended to. Resources are needed to ensure that those offices have the necessary technological tools, be it Internet, be it access to something like DStv.
The problem at the moment is that much of the coverage in the media of Parliament’s work is around this plenary, and about the one and a half hours a day that are broadcast on the public broadcaster. For the rest, people can’t see directly what goes on in committees, and they can’t see the full debates in this House. Can we not equip our offices to provide people with the technological means to enable constituencies to see Parliament in action? [Interjections.]
We need to look at the integration of Parliament’s work. Our questions, our committees, our debates must draw from the constituency work that we as members do. The programme of Parliament - and I think a number of speakers have referred to this - must be structured in such a way that it allows members sufficient time to do constituency work, but also for the integration of our constituency work with other aspects of our parliamentary work. [Interjections.]
We need to look at not only the resources that go directly to members to run constituency offices, but we also need to look at other aspects of the resources given to members of Parliament. The travel facilities provided to members are woefully inadequate, especially in the case of those members who are deployed to vast rural areas. [Applause.] I think that is also something that needs to be looked at.
We also need to pay more attention to how we make that aspect of the vision and mission statement at Parliament that talks about co-operative governance a reality. I think the experience of many members of this House is that the most pressing constituency issues that we come across are local government related issues, and we need to find ways in which we can make it possible for MPs, MPLs and councillors to work together much more closely in an integrated fashion.
In the course of this debate, which has generally been a very good and a very positive debate, there must always unfortunately be a little discordant note. The first one is, in his input the hon Lee talked about lack of delivery on the part of the ANC, on the part of government. [Interjections.] Now, when we debate, we must be serious with each other here. The fact of the matter is that the electorate has given the DA a number of chances in a number of areas in the country. What have they done with those chances? They have squandered them all, without fail. [Interjections.]
If you look at where the DA has been in power, you are looking at an area where there is a lack of transformation, a lack of delivery. That is why they have been voted out. [Applause.] They have been voted out in every area where the electorate has given them a chance. [Interjections.] Now really, we must be serious when we come and debate with each other here. [Interjections.]
Secondly, another issue has been raised. I think it is an important issue that we need to take seriously and debate seriously, but we must also not bring the debate here in a twisted way, and that is the debate around our electoral system.
We can’t make a direct or simplistic correlation that says: a constituency- based electoral system equals good constituency work; a proportional representation system equals bad constituency work. [Interjections.] That is simplistic and unrealistic. I think when we engage in that important debate we need to do so with a lot more sophistication and seriousness. [Interjections.]
Lastly, the point that the hon Jankielsohn raised . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I regret, hon member, your time has expired.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, I regret it as well, because I would have wanted to tell Mr Jankielsohn a thing or two. [Applause.] But lastly, I want to wish all members a very productive constituency period. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
CHOICE ON TERMINATION OF PREGNANCY AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, we move that the amendments be adopted.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Chairperson, the DA would like to address the House in respect of this matter.
Declarations of vote: Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, the DA would like to make a declaration. Last time I spoke on this subject I made the point that there should have been a debate on this Amendment Bill. I made the same point at the portfolio committee meeting on Tuesday. I cannot understand why the ANC does not wish to have a debate. I cannot understand what the ANC is afraid of in respect of a debate. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, on a point of order: To the best of my knowledge it was agreed in the Programme Committee that this matter would be coming to the House on the basis of no debate taking place. [Interjections.] So, I am quite surprised as to where this declaration now comes from.
Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, I do not understand what the ANC is afraid of in respect of a debate. [Interjections.] Even those of us who are pro-choice are not afraid of a debate, and I am not sure if the ANC is . . .
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chair, on point of order: This whole thing is unstructured now. For how long is this member going to speak?
Mr R COETZEE: Three minutes.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, are any other parties allowed to speak on the matter? Let’s have a structured approach to this, so that we understand.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Certainly, hon member, can I tell you what I see as the way we should proceed? There is an opportunity for a declaration. The normal procedure is that there are three minutes for a declaration. If there are any other parties who wish to make a declaration I will allow them to do so. Thank you. Please proceed.
Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, so, I have said before that there should have been a debate, and I am saying again that there should be a debate. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, honestly, on a point of order: We can’t have that. We can’t come together in meetings as all parties and decide that we are not going to debate an issue, and then a party stands up here and accuses us of trying to suppress debate. [Interjections.] If they wanted a debate, they should have said so in the Programme Committee and we could have considered it. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, I understand that there was a request for a debate, but that it was agreed not to have it. However, my understanding is that a declaration is not a debate, and therefore I will proceed on the basis of the advice from the Table, which is that I can take declarations if they occur. Thank you. Please proceed.
Mr R COETZEE: Madam Chair, in fact, at the portfolio committee meeting on Tuesday I argued very strongly for a debate. The matter went through a vote and the ANC voted against a debate and the DA voted in favour of a debate. In fact, that whole debate happened at the portfolio committee meeting on Tuesday. [Interjections.]
The DA has a clear position on this kind of matter. We believe on matters of conscience our members need to exercise their individual right to vote in a way that their conscience dictates, and that, therefore, is the way in which the DA will vote on this matter. I must repeat, however, that we are very concerned, even those of us who are pro-choice, that aspects of this legislation are impossible to implement, and that it is particularly dangerous to allow nurses to perform abortions in a context where there is an enormous shortage of nurses.
According to the Minister of Health, over 20 000 posts for nurses are vacant. The quality of training is also not always appropriate; in fact, almost all the people in the DA caucus are particularly concerned that that aspect of this legislation is not implementable and will potentially cause harm to pregnant women.
The DA will call for a division on the subject so that our members may exercise their right to vote in a way that their conscience dictates. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Are there any other parties that wish to make a declaration?
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the ACDP does not object to the content of the amendment proposed by the NCOP, but we object to the fact that this cosmetic amendment does not effectively address the concerns raised by the health professionals and the public during national hearings.
During the deliberations on the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill last month, the ACDP proposed amendments that would minimise the negative impact of the Bill, including a clause that would protect health professionals who chose not to participate in abortion on grounds of religion, conscience and belief from undue pressure and discriminatory practices. The proposals were rejected and the Bill was passed. Provinces then followed suit, refusing to hear the public on the matter.
Mr A MLANGENI: Madam Chair, on a point of order: The member is very fond of addressing us in this Parliament on the question of abortion. I do not know where she gets that. [Interjections.] What we are discussing here is the termination of pregnancy, not abortion. Every time she speaks up she talks of abortion. Can she please correct herself? [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, provinces then followed suit, refusing to hear the public on the matter, and returned the Bill with minor amendments, as referred to by the department as technical.
The Deputy Health Minister claims that a vote for the ANC is a vote for abortion, and MPs vigorously applaud. Yet, contrary to the ANC’s claims South African women . . .
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chair, the point of order by uBaba Mlangeni is correct, because the input of this member is irrelevant to the subject under consideration. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, it is a question of vocabulary, a choice of words. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chair, fortunately I am in the House. On a point of order: Is this member allowed to mislead the public, because she has totally misquoted me. Can I say what I said? I said: A large majority of women who have voted for the ANC . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, may I say that I do not think that is a point of order. I think there must be another opportunity where you can make this point. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: But am I not allowed . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, a point of order is not an opportunity to make a speech.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes, but she is misquoting me. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the Rules do make provision for a member to give a personal explanation, and I think that should cover what the Deputy Minister . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, I agree with that interpretation. However, I intend giving back to the hon Minister when the ANC wants to make a declaration. Thank you. May we proceed with the debate please?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam, no, no, no. You cannot suggest that the Minister must take the ANC’s time.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I beg you pardon, hon member. I can mostly decidedly make such a decision.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chair, you will give her her own time, not ANC time, please. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I will decide that at the end of this discussion. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Deputy Chair, on a point of order: I just want to call your attention to the protection of our speaker. It appears that many frivolous points of order, which are not actually points of order, are raised. [Interjections.] We ask you to please reward our member in terms of time.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, I will decide on the time. That is not a point of order. Thank you.
Mr P A C HENDRICKSE: Madam Chair, on a point of order: This debate is with regard to the question of choice, not with regard to the question of termination or abortion. It is about choice, and the member is misleading the House when she says that the ANC is for abortion. Being for choice is not being for abortion. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you, hon member, I have heard that. I am not going to prescribe to her what vocabulary she should use.
Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, it is clear that the ANC does not want the public to believe that choice on termination of pregnancy is abortion, but when you see a dead baby, you see a dead baby. [Interjections.] When you see pieces of a baby, you see pieces of a baby.
The Democratic Nurses Organisation of South Africa, Denosa, has criticised the Bill, and is concerned that if government continues to force nurses who have a conscientious objection to participate in abortions, they will refuse to comply and face the consequences or vote by leaving the public sector. The present equality court case is an example of that.
The rights of health workers are being further compromised daily, as women who have been induced to abort come into facilities bleeding, and nurses who choose not to participate have no option but to do so. There is also a shortage. As was said earlier, 31% of nursing posts cannot be filled, and this has increased the workload on nurses drastically.
In terms of the Bill more health facilities have been designated to do abortions, yet no additional nurses or doctors have been provided to do the job. This will fall to the backs of those nurses who are already overburdened.
The ACDP could not vote for this problematic Amendment Bill before, and as nothing has changed we cannot vote for it now. We stand by our opinion that it should have been scrapped, and again call for a review of the principal Act. I thank you. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chair, I do not want to disturb any speaker, but on a matter of procedure: By her own admission, when the committee sat the matter of a debate was raised. It is an important precedent that you are creating. I am addressing you on that. The committee that the Speaker has delegated powers to has looked at this matter and has taken a decision. It might have been a split decision, but it was a decision of that committee. The decision of that committee was conveyed to a legitimate structure of this House, the Programming Committee, and it has been agreed that there would be no debate on the matter. However, you are allowing a debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, I have noted your point. I am not aware that we cannot have declarations despite the fact that people have agreed not to have a debate. Therefore, I would like to know: Are there any other parties that wish to make a declaration? Does the ANC want to make a declaration? [Applause.]
Hon member, please, before you start, may I just explain? [Interjections.] No, Ma’am I am not. Regarding the question of being misquoted: An explanation during the debate is allowed only when a material part of a member’s speech has been misquoted or misunderstood, but such member shall not be permitted to introduce any new matter and no debate shall be allowed upon such an explanation.
However, I do want to give you the opportunity. The ANC can choose whom they wish to make a declaration. Hon Minister, if you wish to do so, you have the opportunity now, otherwise the member at the Chair can proceed. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chair, on a point of order: I think there are issues at stake here that are very different. The Rules allow for parties to make declarations on a matter that is being decided by the House, and we have identified someone who will do that.
Secondly, under a totally different rule there is provision for a member to make an explanation, and I think those two things should not be conflated. Our members should make the declaration on what the party’s position will be on the issue before the House. The member who is being misquoted should, separately from that, have the opportunity to clarify that matter. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): I think that the explanation I have given covers that. It should be a material part of a members’ speech, which it has not in being in this case. Therefore, can we please proceed with the declaration by the ANC? Thank you.
Mr L V J NGCULU: Thank you, very much. Hon Deputy Minister of Health, and hon members, in the debate we just had on the 16 Days of Activism, somebody indicated that the DA and its statement on the matter was a disgrace not only to the party, but also to the ideals which they stand for. Indeed, what we are discussing today further confirms the embarrassment that the DA continues to be to the women members of the DA and to the women members of the ACDP.
The critical matter under discussion is the question regarding the choice of termination, and the amendments thereof. The matter that we are actually discussing in this area was a small amendment. It was only a sentence which said, we should only add, “not contemplated in terms of section 3(1)b”. That was all it was saying. Nothing else was actually in the amendments. What we are saying by stealth and crook is that the people are presenting some of the old debates around the very same concept of the issue that we are discussing.
And what is important for us . . . [Interjections.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Chairperson, on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Hon member, could you please take your seat. I hope it is a point of order.
Mr L M GREEN: Is it parliamentary for the member to say that some of the members – and thus referring to the speakers who spoke before - introduced the debate by means of stealth and crookedness? Will you allow that?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): I will allow it in the context in which it was said. Thank you.
Mr L V J NGCULU: Because the context, hon Green, is very clear. The amendment says, not contemplated in terms of a section. That is all it says. And you and your party would like to bring in that very concept of the debate. For the record, the South African Survey 2003-2004 says that 285 316 women, since the ANC came to power, have taken the lead on the question of the termination of pregnancy: more than a quarter of a million people - more than, perhaps, the people who voted for you. Those are the women who have taken this initiative.
Who are you today, to come and tell those 285 316 women that they are not allowed to do these things? They have done it legally. And that legality was provided for because we, in the ANC, are ever loyal to the plight of the women, in particular to the poor women. We have stated some years ago when this debate came into being that the termination of pregnancy, not just the choice, was allowed for white women. There was no noise from the opposition benches.
We, as the ANC, are saying that the women of South Africa, black and white, must be given a choice to determine what is best for their own health, for their own future, and for their own children. That is all we are saying. And when they decide on that choice, all the ANC is saying is that the conditions under which this has to be undertaken, must fit within the standards of health, the legal limits of our country, and they must be safe for the women of South Africa. That is why we shall not shirk this responsibility. We have a responsibility to the women of our country. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order! Order! Hon members, could we have some order, please. Could we continue? Thank you very much. Are there any objections to this Bill?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Chairperson, the DA objects to it on a formal basis to enable us to move to a division, so that members can vote either for or against or abstain. So, for that purpose, we object.
Mr L M GREEN: Could you also note the ACDP’s objection.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Thank you. Does the DA want their objection recorded?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: When you put the question, I am going to call for a division. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Chairperson, can you note that exactly when you provoke the ANC like this, you get slaughtered like a chicken. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon members, may we please continue, please. Hon members, we cannot continue the debate like this. This is not a screaming match; it is a debate. Please, can we continue? I now put the question. Those in favour will say Aye, and those against No. Thank you. I have recorded one objection. We will look at it, and there is a request for a division. A division having being called, the bells will be rung for five minutes.
Question put: That the Bill be passed.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES-174: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S
E; Baloyi, M R; Benjamin, J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, P;
Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Botha, N G W; Carrim, Y I; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-
Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Davies, R H;
Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Fihla, N B; Fubbs, J L; Gabela,
L S; Gcwabaza, N E; Gololo, C L; Goniwe, M T; Greyling, C H F; Gumede,
D M; Gumede, M M; Hendrickse, P; Huang, S; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H;
Johnson, C B; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kati, Z J;
Kekana, C D; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M;
Kondlo, N C; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Landers, L T; Lekgoro, M K;
Lekgoro, M M S; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I;
Luthuli, A N; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabuyakhulu, D V; Madlala-
Routledge, N C; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magau, K R; Magazi, M N;
Magwanishe, G B; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahomed, F;
Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela,
M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Manana, M N S; Martins, B A D;
Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashiane, L M; Mashigo, R J;
Mashile, B L; Masithela, N H; Masutha, T M; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N
F; Matlala, M H; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mbombo, N D;
Meruti, M V; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mlangeni, A; Mnandi, P N;
Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mokoena, A
D; Mokoto, N R; Molefe, C T; Montsitsi, S D; Morobi, D M; Morwamoche, K
W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpaka, H M; Mshudulu, S A;
Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Ndou, R S; Nel,
A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo,
E N N; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Nhleko, N P;
Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J; Njobe, M A A; Nkuna, C; Nogumla, R Z;
Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D;
Nxumalo, S N; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Phadagi,
M G; Phala, M J; Radebe, B A; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Ramphele,
T D H; Rwexana, S P; Schneemann, G D; Sefularo, M; September, C C;
Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S; Sithole, D J; Skhosana, W M;
Skosana, M B; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M
M; Stephens, M; Thomson, B; Tobias, T V; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J;
Tshwete, P; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van Wyk, Annelizé; Vundisa, S S;
Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L L; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.
NOES-21: Bhengu, M J; Chang, E S; Dudley, C; Durr, K D S; Green, L M;
Jankielsohn, R; Joubert, L K; Kohler-Barnard, D; Lee, T D; Likotsi, M
T; Mdlalose, M M; Ngema, M V; Ngiba, B C; Opperman, S E; Sibuyana, M W;
Smuts, M; Morgan, G R; Mpontshane, A M; Selfe, J; Semple, J A;
Seremane, W J; Vezi, T E; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van der Walt, D;
Waters, M; Zikalala, C N Z.
ABSTAIN-12: Blanché, J P I; Dhlamini, B W; Gibson, D H M; Godi, N T;
Henderson, R K; Lowe, C M; Morgan, G R; Mpontshane, A M; Selfe, J;
Semple, J A; Seremane, W J; Vezi, T E.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order, hon members. Hon member.
Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Chairperson, on a point of order: It is. . . [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, may I tell you that I have been informed that during this period the House is not in session, and we do not have to take points of orders, and I think we have had quite enough of them today, so can we please . . . [Interjections.] This only holds true for the following five minutes. Thank you. Now you may proceed, five minutes have passed.
Mr L M GREEN: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. Firstly, is it in order for members of Parliament to toyi-toyi in Parliament; and secondly, will you allow us, when we are happy, to sing hymns and choruses in Parliament? [Laughter.] Because, this is actually what is happening.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA) : Hon member, I do not think that is a point of order, but certainly in the five minutes while we were waiting for members to join us I have no objection to them toyi-toying. If you wish to sing hymns in that time that would be fine too. [Laughter.] Are you rising on a point of order?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Yes, Madam. You see, precisely that thing . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Please, don’t point your finger.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: He is trying to say to the nation and the House that toyi-toyi is some or other thing. I find that insulting, and I request that member to withdraw.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, there are one or two of our members in that corner whose votes have not been recorded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Thank you, we will see to it that it is recorded.
Bill accordingly passed.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Before we adjourn, I wish to ask members to please note that proceedings of the House will start at 09:00 tomorrow morning, and not at 10:00. That concludes the business for the day, and the House is adjourned.
The House adjourned at 18:01. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Assent by President in respect of Bills
(1) Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2004] -
Act No 21 of 2004 (assented to and signed by President on 8
November 2004).
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 11 November 2004:
(i) Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill [B 72D -
2003] (National Assembly - sec 76)
- Translations of Bills submitted
(1) The Minister of Finance
(i) Aansuiweringsbegrotingswetsontwerp [W 21 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Adjustments
Appropriation Bill [B 21 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Finance
(a) Amendment to the exemptions made in Government Notice No R1596
published in Government Gazette No 24176 dated 20 December 2003,
under section 74 of the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2001
(Act No 38 of 2001).
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the second reporting exemption in
terms of the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2001 (Act No 38 of
2001).
(c) Government Notice No 1156 published in Government Gazette No
26866 dated 14 October 2004: Setting out particulars of areas
demarcated by municipalities of Johannesburg and Cape Town, which
shall constitute urban development zones, in terms of the Income
Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962).
- The Minister of Defence
(a) Southern African Development Community (SADC) Mutual Defence
Pact ("the Pact"), tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Southern African Development
Community (SADC) Mutual Defence Pact ("the Pact").
(c) United Nations Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights
of the Child on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflicts,
tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996 (Act
No 108 of 1996).
(d) Explanatory Memorandum to the United Nations Optional Protocol
to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the Involvement of
Children in Armed Conflicts.
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
Government Notice No R880 published in Government Gazette No 26601
dated 23 July 2004: Magistrates' Courts: Amendment of the Rules of the
Court, in terms of the Rules Board for Courts of Law, 1985 (Act No 107
of 1985).
National Assembly:
- The Speaker
Report of the Delegation to the 111th Interparliamentary Union (IPU)
Conference in Geneva.
CREDA PLEASE INSERT - Insert 1111IPU.DOC
- The Speaker
Draft notice and schedule in terms of section 2(4) of the Judges'
Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, 2001 (Act No 47 of
2001), determining the rate at which salaries are payable to
Constitutional Court Judges and Judges annually, with effect from 1
April 2004, for approval by Parliament.
CREDA PLEASE INSERT - Insert two scanned pages (only available from PDF)
- The Speaker
Draft notice and schedule in terms of section 12(3) of the Magistrates
Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993), determining the rate at which salaries
are payable to magistrates annually, with effect from 1 April 2004, for
approval by Parliament.
CREDA PLEASE INSERT - Insert four scanned pages (only available from PDF)
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on Allegations of non-disclosure by Members of Parliament, dated 8 November 2004:
CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - 1111ethi.DOC
National Assembly:
CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - Insert 1ATC1111