FRIDAY, 05 NOVEMBER 2004 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at the Imbizo Hall, Empangeni, KwaZulu-Natal at 10:10.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I would like to take this opportunity to thank hon President Mbeki for accepting our invitation to come and deliver his annual address to the NCOP. I therefore call upon His Excellency, the President, to come and address us. [Applause.]

THE CHALLENGES FACED BY THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES, PROVINCES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN BUILDING A PEOPLE’S CONTRACT TO CREATE WORK AND TO FIGHT POVERTY The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, His Majesty King Zwelethini. Chaiperson, I have just agreed with His Majesty that I am going to have to negotiate with the NCOP that His Majesty should become a member. [Applause.] That would do a lot to improve the function of the NCOP. I am very glad to see you here, Your Majesty. Hon Premiers, hon members of the NCOP, hon Chairperson of Salga, mayors and councillors, people of Empangeni, KwaZulu-Natal and ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for affording me this opportunity to, once again, address the NCOP. I must congratulate the NCOP for taking this decision to meet in our provinces, and therefore having the opportunity to interact with our people so that they understand the Council better. I am indeed sure that you yourselves will understand better what the people see, the people think and feel and want the people feel should be done. This is the first time, Chairperson, that I attend the NCOP during this tenth year of our freedom and therefore the first time since our last elections. I would therefore like to say congratulations to those members of the NCOP who were elected earlier this year and thank you for the work that this House has done in various forms over the last 10 years further to entrench the system of democracy in our country. Since we are meeting in KwaZulu-Natal, Chairperson, I also need to congratulate the Premier of the province for doing something, which I am sure all of us were concerned about. At least he has begun to do something, which we were all concerned about, namely changing the gender composition of the provincial government. [Applause.] Very well done, Premier Ndebele. We hope you are going to keep that up. I think you could do with even better representation of women in the executive. The fact that we are celebrating 10 years of liberation creates a possibility for us to assess the tasks and manner of functioning of the NCOP. This may have been done already or you may be in the process of doing it. If it has been done, Chairperson, I would indeed be very interested to hear what the outcome is of that assessment.

After 10 years, what is our view of the manner in which the NCOP functions and the task that it is charged with. In that regard, I’d like to draw attention to two particular matters. One of them is that it is quite clear that an important element of our system of governance is the idea and the practice of popular participation such as is demonstrated in the meetings that have taken place here, consistent with the view that we have held for many decades, that the people shall govern. We have now spoken of a people’s contract, therefore emphasising a need for institutions such as the NCOP to engage with the people so that the people can participate in that process of governance.

We try and encourage this interaction of popular participation in our system of governance in many ways. The process of izimbizo, which is held by provincial government, by national government and so on, is part of this process of ensuring that we encourage that process of popular participation. Other means of regular communication between government in all spheres with the people are also targeted so that we communicate as much information to the people as possible, so that we empower them to intervene and participate in this process directed at improving their lives. It is a central feature of the evolution of the system of governance in this country that we bring government as close as possible to the people, that we engage the people in the process of government and do not allow that gaps should appear between the governors and the governed. A second matter on which I think we are all concentrating is the issue of the acceleration of the process of transformation, focused on the objective of a better life for all our people, focused on the objective of improving, as quickly as is possible, the quality of life of all our people. I think, as we have assessed the progress made over the last 10 years and therefore the basis that has been established to address that particular challenge, we have come generally to the determination that a very strong, comprehensive policy base and legal base have been established and critically and centrally the task that we face is the implementation of those policies and ensuring that those policies produce the outcomes that are visualised. I believe that if we talk about those two things, entrenching the process of popular participation, strengthening the people’s contract and accelerating the process of transformation, inevitably we have to pay particular attention to the issue of local government and that includes the traditional system of governance.

The NCOP occupies a particular and a special and a unique place in our national life. There is no other body like it in terms of our system of government. It is part of the national Parliament. It is also a parliament of the provinces. It is also a legislative bridge between the local and the national spheres. There isn’t any other institution in our country which covers all three spheres of government in the way in which the NCOP does. Therefore, the question of the tasks, the manner of function, the role of the NCOP 10 years after liberation, what should be improved and what do we need to change – answers to those questions can only come from this body. There is no other body like it that would address such questions. I do believe, one of the matters that the NCOP then would have to discuss is: What role can the NCOP play or should it play with regard to the central task of ensuring that we further improve the participation of our people in the determination of their future. The NCOP must answer the question: What contribution can it make to achieve the objectives that we agreed upon when we spoke about a people’s contract? What contribution should the NCOP make to the process of accelerating the process of change, so that we move forward faster with regard to the matter of a better life for the people? My sense, sitting at national government, is that there has been somewhat of a reduction in terms of the legislative load coming out of national government into national Parliament. It is a reflection of course of the work that has been done over the last 10 years in terms of the elaboration of policies and the adoption of national legislation. I think there will be fewer laws that will come before the NCOP compared to the period behind us. If that is true, which I think it is in theory anyway, this should create some space for the NCOP to take on some tasks that it could not have done before, because it did not have the time. In principle, or theoretically, it should be the case. It is precisely that kind of space which would enable the NCOP to say: This is what we do, this is what we need to do – perhaps differently – in this period as we begin our second decade of liberation. The expression and the implementation of the concept of a people’s contract are obviously best effected at a local level. This is where the leadership, the councillors, the mayors and the traditional leaders have to maintain daily contact with the mass of our people. When we talk about a people’s contract we must surely focus on how this is being done, effected and realised at that local government level. Again, this might have been done by the NCOP. Shouldn’t we ask that the representatives of organised local government, Salga, that sit in the NCOP, to submit a report to the NCOP about the functioning of the ward committees? It is a matter that the NCOP needs to study. Shouldn’t Salga submit a report to the NCOP to indicate the accessibility of council meetings to the public, in the way that this particular session of the NCOP is accessible to the public? What is happening? Shouldn’t Salga report on popular participation involvement in the implementation of the IDPs? I am asking this and making these suggestions with regard to the matter of popular participation, a people’s contract, the fact that the people shall govern, because these are instances where this should be expressed, for instance in the ward committees, accessibility to council meetings, involvement in the implementation of the IDPS and there may well be other instances. I think, given the great fortune, as I was saying that the NCOP is this legislative bridge between the local and national spheres of government, with members of Salga sitting in the NCOP, I think we could take advantage of that to get an assessment, as the NCOP, as to what is happening at local level. That should give us the possibility, as the NCOP, to ask ourselves the question: What then can the NCOP do to help in this regard, to help in the process of ensuring that local government does indeed act in a manner, and function in a manner that encourages that popular participation, that encourages the strengthening of the people’s contract. It may very well be that all of this has been done already. If it has, I would certainly be very interested to hear the outcome of that process. Recently we have seen around the country some unacceptable forms of protest at local level, resulting in some instances in the destruction of public property. I must say in this regard that the law will be enforced when anybody who decides to act in that manner destroys public property. The SAPS will act against those people and those people will be charged. Nevertheless, we need to understand that one of the reasons for these protests is unsatisfactory communication between councils and councillors and the people they serve. It is an expression of frustration where people get cut off from these representatives whom they have elected and it spills out, because they do not see that there is any response to the immediate challenges that they face. It thus finds expression in these unacceptable ways. I am mentioning this to say that I think clearly we were correct to insist that a central part of our system of governance in this country must be the process of direct contact with the people, the people’s contract and popular participation. In the end, as the NCOP reviews itself 10 years after our liberation, surely the NCOP then would have to answer the question: What can the NCOP do to help at that level of local government to improve the process of popular participation? A second matter of importance is this issue of the acceleration of the process of change, of making an impact, a better and a faster impact, with regard to improving the quality of life of all our people. We come back to the matter of local government. The NCOP and its members are very familiar with the tasks of local government, even as spelled out in our Constitution. For instance, where it deals with the objects of local government, the Constitution says that they are to provide democratic and accountable government to local communities, to ensure the provision of services to communities in a sustainable manner, to promote social and economic development, to promote social and economic development, to promote a safe and healthy environment and to encourage the involvement of communities and community organisations in the matters of local government. These are constitutional requirements that fall on the shoulders of local government. They are indeed of the greatest importance in terms of what happens to the lives of our people and in the country as a whole. Consistent with these observations in terms of our Constitution, I am quite certain, Chairperson, that we all agree about the critical importance of local government in terms of meeting challenges that face our people. Indeed the process of rationalisation of government structures that was undertaken earlier, reducing the number of municipalities from 843 to 284, was intended precisely to ensure that they have the capacity to be able to serve the people. We need efficient and effective municipalities to deliver better services to the people, to ensure that poor households have access to basic infrastructure and the poor provided with free basic services. Further, as we accelerate the implementation of our Expanded Public Works Programme, we will need strong municipalities to work in partnership with other spheres of government. The use and the implementation of the municipal infrastructure grant also makes demands on the capacity of municipalities to be able to use those grants, indeed to strengthen the infrastructure, impacting directly on improving directly the quality of the lives of our people.

We know that there are many problems in our country that we have not solved and they are going to take us time to solve, whether these are matters of clean water, sanitation, electricity, access to health services, issues of employment and so on, we have continuing challenges in all of these areas. Clearly, all experience shows that what we need to do to respond better to all of this is again to look at the question of the capacity of our municipalities. That is the origin of the Project Consolidate that has been put forward by the Minister of Provincial and Local Government. At national level that project is also supported by an interministerial committee, because indeed, the challenge of strengthening the municipalities cannot be left merely to this one department headed by Minister Mufamadi. Minister Mufamadi explained that: As government, not only do we need to establish more policy coherence among the various dimensions of our work, but also we need to pay attention to the technical requirements for good governance. We have identified a number of municipalities that are experiencing a short- term need for an intense, hands-on support. We are assembling a high-calibre team, which will be deployed to work with municipalities to tackle the identified tasks. Since this support is meant to fade out over time, provinces will immediately replicate this process in order to position themselves such that they can continue to support municipalities in their own areas of jurisdiction. For their part, the municipalities concerned will fully embrace this as an opportunity for them to learn by doing.

Some of the information that came out in the audit done to look at what capacity the municipalities have and don’t have - some of those results are very worrying indeed. That audit focused on their capacity for service delivery and implementation of policies. This audit found that 136 of the 284 municipalities have little or no capacity to service their areas and therefore need urgent support to improve their delivery mechanisms. Some of the criteria that were used to make this assessment showed for instance that 241 municipalities have more than 30% of those who have some form of income less than R1 600 per month; 135 municipalities have an unemployment rate of greater than 35%; 226 municipalities have more than 50% indigent households; 182 municipalities have less than 60% their households with access to refuse removal; 203 municipalities have less than 60% households with access to sanitation, flush toilet, chemical toilet or septic tank; 122 local government structures have less than 60% of their households with access to electricity; 155 municipalities have less than 60% of households with access to clean water; 116 municipalities have less than 60% of their households living in shacks. I mention these figures because when we then talk about addressing the capacity problem at local government level, it is indeed to be able to get the municipalities to be able to address these particular challenges. That is the intention of Project Consolidate. These municipalities should be given support to build the necessary infrastructure and develop the institutional capacity and systems that would ensure that they are able to discharge the constitutional mandate to which I referred.

Further, Project Consolidate will pay particular attention to the following areas: Ensure community development that would empower communities and encourage participation of our people in the spirit of Letsema and Vukuzenzele; assist with capacity-building, setting systems, human resource development and improved organisational culture. It will pay attention to these matters, for instance, in the provision of free basic services, as agreed to, ensure that we properly implement local economic plans that would help to create jobs and to bring success to the Expanded Public Works Programme; that we put in place systems and mechanisms that would address the matter of corruption; that we further pursue the interventions that have already been agreed to; focus on the rural and urban nodes so that we indeed accelerate the process of the reconstruction and development of our country. It must have a set of performance indicators so that we are able to measure whether we are making progress or not. There are structures at national level, and I am quite certain that there are structures at provincial level to make sure that we are able effectively to implement Project Consolidate. It is a challenging task, partly arising from the fact - certainly if you look at the rural municipalities - that many of us do not want to live in those rural areas and would want to move to the urban areas. Project Consolidate is going to draw attention specifically to the need for the skills that are required there, so that when we talk about service delivery and good governance, it must be based on the actual capacity within the local institutions, to make sure that those local institutions and municipalities are able to discharge their responsibilities properly. I am very pleased with regard to this Project Consolidate because the private sector has also agreed to come into this. As government we will be working with the private sector to ensure that we indeed build this capacity that is so critically important, to achieve that objective of the acceleration of the process of change. As an important part of that, the deployment of the community development workers should help that we succeed and improve the quality of service that we deliver to the people, as well as ensure that we do indeed respond better to what the people need. I am told that there have been some suggestions that there are tensions between these workers and councillors and municipal officials. There is a certain spirit of competition, which is really unnecessary. I am sure the community development workers are not interacting with the people so that they should then become candidates for the following municipal elections. The councillors don’t need to fear the competition. We have to provide this service, because many of our people are too poor even to travel to municipal offices, where they would gain access to services. They usually do not have the necessary knowledge or information to deal with their daily challenges. We need to have these community development workers in place among the people so that they constitute a direct bridge between the people and the institutions of government. This past Wednesday, on 3 November, after the last workshop of all three spheres of government that took place earlier in the week, the government approved the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Bill, of which the objective is, among other things, to get all spheres of government to work together to establish institutions and procedures that would ensure better co-ordination and collaboration in the formulation and implementation of government policies. This is very important because the three spheres of government, as we have seen with Project Consolidate, have to work together in an integrated way. This Bill is important because we know that in the past there were instances when the different spheres of government were not sufficiently co-ordinating their programmes, where at times provincial programmes would be made without proper discussions with local government and where, similarly, municipalities would formulate, for instance, Integrated Development Plans without consultation with the provinces.

It would therefore seem that we need to work together to bring capacity to our municipalities and to improve the work of local councillors. We must indeed ensure that the community development workers were properly co- operating with the councillors. We must ensure that all spheres of government co-operate in terms of ensuring that we do indeed accelerate this process of change. I think that the NCOP again will have to ask itself the question: What should the NCOP do to participate in the acceleration of the process of change? Taking into account this unique way in which the NCOP is organised, bringing together all three spheres of government, the NCOP needs to look at what it can do to reinforce these processes visualised in Project Consolidate and what can it do to ensure that we indeed succeed with regard to all of them?

The NCOP has structural and immediate access to all three spheres of government, provincial, national and local. The NCOP can summon the President to come and address you. You can summon a mayor to come and address you. I think with regard to the matter of ensuring popular participation, the NCOP needs to look at this matter, namely, what it can and should do to assist in the process of accelerating the process of change. I would hope that it would be possible for all of us to look at these matters closely and take some decisions. I would like to assure you that as far as the national government is concerned, national government is ready to give maximum support to the NCOP as it discharges its functions. [Applause.]

We must be able to say, Chairperson, that as we celebrate 10 years of liberation and as we begin our second decade of liberation, the NCOP has become an even better instrument in the service of our people. Thank you, Chairperson, and best wishes for your work.

IPHINI LIKASIHLALO WOMKHANDLU WEZIFUNDAZWE KAZWELONKE (Mnuz M J Mahlangu): Ngizothanda ukuthatha leli thuba ngibonge kakhulu kuMphathisihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe. Ngibonge futhi kakhulu nakuMongameli kukho konke asitshele khona. Ngisho ukuthi sizokuthatha siwumkhandlu sihambe siyokubheka kuthi uma sifika ekhaya sibone ukuthi singabamba liphi iqhaza eledlula leli esesilibamba manje singumkhandlu. Mangiqale-ke ngokuthi: Silo samabandla onke, hlanga lomhlabathi! Mhlonishwa Mongameli wezwe lonke uThabo Mbheki, oNdunankulu bezifundazwe zonke ikakhulukazi umnumzane uSbu Ndebele okunguyena esihambele isifundazwe sakhe, amalunga ahloniphekile oMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe akhona phakathi kwethu, uSihlalo jikelele we-Salga okhona phakathi kwethu, zihambeli zethu ezihloniphekile ngiyanithanda nonke namhlanje ekuseni.

Ngithanda ukuqala ngesihloko esingejwayelekanga esithi ubunye kanye nokubekezela. Ubunye kanye nokubekezela kubalulekile emphakathini ngoba sibhekene nezinselelo ezinkulu ezenziwa nguhulumeni wobandlululo eminyakeni eminingi eyadlula. Leyo nselelo idinga ubumbano kanye nokubekezela. Ubunye bethu bubalulekile ngoba buyisiqalo sentuthuko nenqubekela phambili. Ngaphandle kokuthi sibambane futhi sibekezelelane, yonke le nselelo engikhuluma ngayo izoba yize leze. [Ihlombe.]

Hlanga lomhlabathi, thina kulesi sifundazwe singabantu bakho. Thina neNdlunkulu yonke sihlanganiswa yisifiso esisodwa sokusebenza ngokubambisana ukwenza ngcono izimpilo zabantu. Angeke zenzeke ngcono izimpilo zabantu uma singasebenzisani sonke - laphaya phezulu egalari kanye nalapha phansi. Le minyaka eyishumi eyedlule Mongameli wezwe, izakhamuzi zonke zaseNingizimu Afrika kubandakanya izingane, abadala bethu, abalimi kanye nabakhubazekile bayaqhubeka nokuhlomula ezinhlelweni zikahulumeni okuhloswe ngazo ukwenza ngcono izimo zenhlalo nomnotho. Sisho ngeqholo Mongameli wezwe nangesibindi sikutusa ukuthi ungumholi ohloniphekile nowazi umsebenzi wakhe. [Ihlombe.] Kuyiqiniso ukuthi ubuholi bakho abulethanga kuphela ithemba ngekusasa ezigidigidini zabantu kodwa kulethe nenjabulo nentokozo ezimpilweni zonke ngenxa yezinguquko ezibonakalayo ezimweni zabo zenhlalo.

Mongameli ohloniphekile wezwe, sikubonile futhi izolo uthola isipho esihloniphekile eNyunivesi yaseKapa lapho bewuhlonishwa khona ngomsebenzi omuhle owenzile lapha ekhaya nasezwenikazi lonke lase-Afrika kanye nasemazweni omhlaba. Indlu iyakubongisa. [Ihlombe.] Kusukela ngoMsombuluko silokhu silapha Mongameli, kukhona izinto ekade sizitshelwa ngabantu, hhayi abaholi kodwa abantu abasikhethile ukuthi sibahole phambili. Ngithanda ukuveza lezo zinto ekade besitshela zona bese ngisonga inkulumo yami ngokusho ukuthi sesihambe kangakanani kwezinye izinto.

Abantu bathi-ke uhulumeni omusha owakhethwa kusukela ngo-1994 wabuyiselwa futhi ngama-70% ngo-2004 usaqhubeka nokuhlinzeka ngezimali zosizo ezinganeni, kwabadala nakwabakhubazekile ukuze bakwazi ukuxosha ikati eziko. Bathi bayabonga kakhulu kuhulumeni. [Ihlombe.]Bayabonga futhi ukuthi amanzi aseyaqala ukufika ezindaweni zabo, nogesi sekuyakhombisa ukuthi usuyangena kanye nokuthi izindlu seziyakhiwa ezindaweni ezithize. Nokho, bashilo-ke Mongameli ukuthi uhulumeni kufanele enze ngokushesha ngoba kusekhona izindawo lapho ugesi ungakafinyeleli khona, namanzi ngokunjalo nezindawo lapho izindlu zingakakhiwa khona. [Ihlombe.]

Ngiyanethembisa kakhulu ukuthi lokho okushiwo uMongameli kanye nalokho okushiwo uNdunankulu wesifundazwe mhla bevula izindlu zesishayamthetho ezehlukene emva kokhetho kuzokwenzeka. Naluzwa uhlelo lukaMongameli lokuthi kufanele sibuyele emuva kubantu sizobheka lonke uhlelo lukahulumeni ukuthi luyasebenza yini. Njengoba zise lapha nje namhlanje yingenxa yalokho. Baphinde basho-ke Mongameli ukuthi kusekhona izindawo nokho – into engidabukise kancane engithanda ukuthi ngiyikhulume futhi ngincenge kakhulu emakhosini ethu aKwaZulu-Natali naseSilweni ngokunjalo nezakhamuzi zaKwaZulu-Natali – kungizwise ubuhlungu uma ngizwa umphakathi uthi kithi kusekhona izindawo lapho ungakwazi uhulumeni ukungena khona ukuze ubalethele intuthuko. [Ihlombe.]

Ngithanda ukucela eSilweni, emakhosini onke akhona kule ndlu nakubaholi bezepolitiki bonke abakhona ukuthi le mali esetshenziswa uhulumeni ukuzodala intuthuko kubantu yimali yenu. Yemukeleni kuhulumeni ukuze anithuthukisa ukuze nikwazi ukubona impilo yenu ibangcono. Ngiyanincenga ukuthi nibumbane . . . (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): I would like to take this opportunity to say thank you very much to the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces. I would also like to thank the President for everything what he has told us. I must also say that we would take this as a Council and look at it so that when we go back home we can see what role we as Council can play other than the one we are currently playing. Let me start by saying: Your Majesty the King! The hon the President of the whole country, Thabo Mbeki, the Premiers of all the provinces, more especially Mr S’bu Ndebele, who is our host in his province, hon members of the Council present here amongst us, the national Chairperson of Salga present amongst us, our honourable guests, I greet you all this morning.

I would like to start with a rather unusual, crucial topic, which is: Unity and perseverance. Unity and perseverance are very important in our community because we are facing huge challenges created by the apartheid government many years ago. Those challenges requires unity and perseverance. Our unity is important because it is the beginning of development and prosperity. Without co-operation and perseverance all the other efforts that I am talking about would be in vain. [Applause.]

Your Majesty, we in this province are your people. We and the entire Royal House are drawn together by one aspiration, that of working together in bettering the lives of people. People’s lives would not be improved if we here on the floor and you up there on the gallery do not work together.

In these past 10 years, Mr President, all South African citizens, including children, our elderly people, our farmers and our physically challenged continue to benefit form government programmes that are aimed at improving people’s lives socially and economically. We praise you, Mr President, and we proudly say you are an honourable leader who knows his work. [Applause.] It is indeed true that your leadership not only brought hope to millions of people, but also brought enjoyment and happiness to people’s lives because of the prosperity in their social welfare.

Hon the President of the country, we saw you again yesterday when you were honoured by the University of Cape Town, where you were being honoured because of the good work that you have done here at home and in Africa as a whole, even abroad. The House joins you in the celebration. [Applause.] Since Monday, when we started here, Mr President, there have been things that people, not leaders, but people who elected us to lead them, have been telling us about. I wish to reveal those things that they have been telling us about and I will then sum up my speech by saying how far have we come regarding those things.

People are saying the new government who was voted into power in 1994 and again brought to power with 70% in 2004 still continues to help people with child grants, to give pensions to the elderly and grants to the physically challenged so that they may at least be able to have something to eat. They say they are very grateful to the government. [Applause.] They are also grateful that water is now coming to their localities, and there are positive signs that electricity is also coming and toilets are being built in certain areas. However, they did mention, Mr President, that the government must accelerate the provision of these things because there are still places that electricity has not yet reached and that water has not yet reached and places where houses have not yet been built. [Applause.]

I promise you that what was said by the President and the Premier when they were opening Parliament and the legislature respectively would be carried out. You heard the President when he made the call that we should go back to people to see if the government programme is indeed working. It is for this very reason that we are here today. They also said that there are still areas – something that saddened me a bit which I would like to say and appeal to our traditional leaders in KwaZulu-Natal and His Majesty as well as the citizens of KwaZulu-Natal – it pained me when I heard people say that there are still places that are no-go areas, where the government cannot go to bring development. I am appealing to all our amakhosi in KwaZulu-Natal and His Majesty, as well as the citizens of KwaZulu-Natal. [Applause.]

I wish to appeal to His Majesty, all amakhosi present here in this House and all political leaders present, that the money used by the government to bring development is your money. You must accept that money from the government so that it can bring development, thus making your lives better. I am pleading for unity amongst you … ]

. . . because those are national issues. Those are also basic services that we all need in the morning. When we wake up, we want water to wash with and to drink. When we go to bed, we want electricity to cook with and to light our houses. We want the roads to travel on.

Sifuna lezo zindlela zibonakale. Uma sivalela uhulumeni amathuba okuba enze lokho, kusho ukuthi-ke zisibuyisela emuva thina ngokwethu.[Ihlombe.] Ukwesweleka kwemsebenzi Mongameli abantu baphawulile ngakho ukuthi kuseyinselelo enkulu esibhekene nayo singuhulumeni. Kukhona izikole ezinamagumbi okufundela angenasilingi futhi ezingenazo izindlu zangasese. Ezinye izindlu zangasese zisetshenziswa njengegumbi lokugcina izimpahla zesikole. Abalimi abasafufusa abaqhamuka kuleyo miphakathi eyayincishwe amathuba emibusweni engaphambili basadidekile ukuthi bangawafeza kanjani amaphupho abo. Basicelile kakhulu ukuthi sibasekele nokuthi sibabonelele emabhizinisini abo. Kuselapho nje, ngithanda ukusho ukuthi ngizwe ubuhlungu obukhulu uma kade abakhubazekile bethu, abasha kanye nabadala abahlezi laphaya phezulu egalari besitshela ukuthi kukhona osozimali ababasebenzisayo. [Ihlombe.] Bathatha imali kahulumeni basebenzise umuntu onganalutho kuthi uma sebezitholile lezi zimali bashiye umuntu ngemuva bathathe yonke imali bayifake esikhwameni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[We want those roads to be visible. If we prevent the government from doing that, it would mean putting ourselves back. [Applause.] People, Mr President, commented about the scarcity of employment, saying it is still a big challenge that we as government are still facing. There are schools that have neither roofs nor toilets. Other toilets are used as storerooms for school property.

Emerging farmers who are from the previously marginalised communities are still perplexed as to how they can make their dreams come true. They asked us to help them in their business ventures in any way possible. Still on that aspect, I wish to say that I felt pain when I heard our physically challenged, youth and our elderly people up there in the gallery telling us that there are businessmen who use them. [Applause.] They take the government’s money and use the poor people and when they get those moneys they put all of it into their own pockets . . .]

. . . making themselves richer and the poor poorer. That was a painful thing to hear and I can assure you that the government will address this, and the national Ministers were here when some of these issues were raised. Mechanisms will be found to address those things and make sure that those people should actually go to jail, because they are defrauding the government. [Applause.]

Kukhona futhi okunye engikuzwile engithanda ukuthi ngikuhlabe. Ngiye ngakuhlaba ngoLwesibili. Kukhona abasebenzi bombuso abangazi ukuthi kunabantu noma akunabantu yini. [Ihlombe.] Bonke laba bantu enibabona behlezi egalari bavuka baya okhethweni bafike basikhetha ukuthi sibenzele izinto abazifunayo. Uma bebhalela oNgqongqoshe, baphenduleni ukuze bathole impendulo. [Ihlombe.] Ukuthi niyakwazi ukukwenza lokho noma anikwazi Ukukwenza … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[There is also another thing that I heard of and I wish to denounce it. I denounced it on Tuesday. There are public servants who do not care about people.[Applause.] All these people that you see in the gallery woke up in the morning during the elections and voted for us to work for them. If they write to Ministers, they should be given responses … [Applause.] … whether you are able to do that or not … ]

… but they deserve a response, whether we can manage or cannot manage. They deserve information from government. Let’s not conceal it, because that is the information they need.

Labo basebenzi abangazimiselanga ukusebenza ngicela ukuthi ngoMsombuluko bapakishe amasudikesi abo bahambe bashiye labo abazimisele ukusebenza. [Ihlombe.]

Okokugcina, uhlelo lwe-Municipal Infrastructure Grant kanye nolwe-Expanded Public Works lwenzelwe lokho ukuthi abantu bakithi bakwazi ukuzuza imisebenzi futhi bakwazi nokungena emnothweni. Labo-ke abathatha onke amathenda ngoba benamathuba ake baqhele kancane banikeze abanye amathuba okuthola amathenda.[Ihlombe.] Njengoba uMongameli wezwe eseshilo, uhulumeni kazwelonke, ohulumeni bezifundazwe kanye nohulumeni basekhaya … (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Those officials who are not prepared to work should, on Monday - I am asking them - pack their suitcases and go and leave behind only those who are prepared to work. [Applause.]

Lastly, the Municipal Infrastructure Grant and the Expanded Public Works Programme are there for our people to get jobs and be able to be part of the economy. To those who take all the tenders because they have opportunities, I say: Let them hold on for the time being and give others a chance of getting tenders. [Applause.] As the President of the country has said, the national government, provincial governments and local governments … ]

… intergovernmental relations are quite important in that we must work together in order to deliver the services on the ground. I thank you. [Applause.]

UNDUNANKULU WAKWAZULU-NATALI(Mr S Ndebele): Mongameli, Sihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe, Mongameli weRiphabhuliki yaseNingizimu Afrika, baba uMzizi, sithi asikubongele nathi ngezindondo ezilokhu zizile nje kubongwa umsebenzi owenzayo wokubumba lesi sizwe saseNingizimu Afrika, e- Afrika yonke kanye nasemhlabeni wonke. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL (Mr S Ndebele): President, Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, President of the Republic of South Africa, Mzizi, we congratulate you on the awards you received for the work you have done to build a South African nation, Africa and the world.]

You have confirmed through your leadership that, indeed, South Africa is a country of hope. You are that hope and through you the people of South Africa have that hope.

Hlanga lomhlabathi, Silo samabandla! Ukuba khona kwakho kwenza kungangabazeki ukuthi iqhaza leNdlunkulu likuphi ekubumbeni isizwe nokugqugquzela intuthuko nokuthula. Siyabonga kakhulu, hlanga lomhlabathi, ukulokhu unathi nje. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[His Majesty the King! Your presence surely confirms the role played by the Royal House in building the nation and the promotion of development and peace. Thank you very much, Your Majesty, for always being here with us.]

We are meeting, colleagues, members of the NCOP, Chairperson of Salga, members all, in a province that understands that there can be no better tomorrow if we are always thinking of yesterday. Our yesterday was one of racism . . .

Sekuzanyiwe eNingizimu Afrika. Yilona lodwa leli zwe elezwa umuzwa wobandlulo. Saze sabiza nabantu abaqhamuka ngaphandle. [Attempts have been made in South Africa. This is the only country that has experienced apartheid. We even went to the extent of calling in people from outside.]

We have tried and perfected it. Nothing based on racism has not been tried in South Africa. We have tried it for many years and many decades and racism failed. Similarly we have tried tribalism. It is a distortion of our own evolution. Tribalism failed. We have also tried, as men, to move on the premise that man was created in the image of God and God is not a woman, and therefore a woman is not a human being. It is wrong and has failed. Therefore we say, truly we will create nonracial, nonsexist democratic order… [Applause.] It is not because there are several options such as a racist one, or a sexist one and we have chosen one of the options. Nonracialism, and nonsexism are the only option. There is no other option. We were not responsible for where we are, for getting down, but we are responsible for getting up.

There are two ways of getting up. There is democracy and there is democracy. There are democratic systems in the world based on . . . [Inaudible.] . . . President Bush has done so, or other democracies do that. After those four years, the majority of the people play no role whatsoever in the development of policy. The South African way is different. We are a government not only of mass support, but of mass participation, where the mass of the people are not only spoken to once every five years. We can then continue with our business, we will support or disappoint and only know after five years. In South Africa we said that we would create a government of mass participation and people felt that was not possible. There is it today. Thousands of our people are here, waiting for us to talk to them. They want us to talk to them. The previous speaker put it eloquently. Mass participation therefore says . . .

. . . abantu bakithi bayohlala njalo beneqhaza ekusebenzeni kukahulumeni ekuletheni intuthuko nokuthula nasekwenzeni ukuthi intando yeningi igxile. Leyo ntando yeningi-ke ithi uma sikifile kwaDlangezwa noma Obuka olwabuka ihlangu yafa, abantu – uma kungabantu ngeke kube amadoda nje kuphela futhi ngeke kube abadala nje kuphela nabancane nje kuphela kodwa kuyoba khona abesilisa nabesifazane – siyokhuluma nabo ngokuthi nansi intuthuko. Yiliphi isu elingcono esingalenza ngoba abekho ongqondongqondo laphayana ePhalamende abakwazi ukucabanga yonke into bese befika bethi nakhu thatha noma ushiye. Akuyena uhulumeni wokuthi uthathe noma ushiye lona kodwa uthi asisebenze ndawonye sisukume sisakhe lesi sifundazwe nale Ningizimu Afrika. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[. . . our people will always play a significant role in ensuring that the government brings development and peace and to strengthen democracy. When the said democracy reaches Dlangezwa or Obuka – that gazed at the reedbuck and died - when we talk about people, we don’t refer to males only, we don’t refer to adults and youth only, but references include both women and men, and we will say to them there is development. What is the best plan we can put into effect, because there in Parliament we lack people who can think of everything and tell you what to take and what not to. This is not the government of taking and leaving, but tells us to work together to build this province and South Africa.]

Yesterday we were in Durban, where a new organisation has been formed. That organisation is called the KwaZulu-Natal Chamber of Business. By forming that organisation others are dissolved. We dissolved the white chamber of business, the Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut, a separate Nafcoc, because we said that KwaZulu-Natal business is the business. It shall speak in a united voice and act in a manner that is to the benefit of all of us. [Applause.]

We have also established a forum of religious communities. Religious leaders from the Christian faith, from the African faiths, from the Jewish faith, from Islam and from Hindu have formed this forum that interacts directly with government. They are part of the organs of mass participation and we said that they should not be ignored. That forum has been formed. [Applause.]

We have also established KwaZulu-Natal Women in Dialogue, formed on the basis of SAWID, where women are in the majority. Men are becoming extinct, particularly here in KwaZulu-Natal. Women comprise 53% of the population here. In some districts women comprise 57% of the total. It is quite a serious matter. [Laughter.] The people who have always been at the forefront of establishing peace have been women. They suffer more, whether there are faction fights or whether there is political violence on taxi violence. Therefore women have come together and said: Yes, we might be Catholic, we might be Zionist, ANC or IFP, so what? We are women first of all and we must unite and put forward those issues that are very relevant to women, namely peace and development. [Applause.]

Similarly, the youth has come together as well. It is something that I can be proud of here, because we issued a challenge to the youth of KwaZulu- Natal in June. We said to them that it does not matter whether they understand what Umsovombu does, or what the Youth Commission does, but they as the youth of the province, mostly in the ANC and the IFP, must know that government will make available anything from R2 million to R10 million and say: Go and establish a business enterprise together, and then you can say: This is what we built together. Forget what the past was like and let us move on. They say that the business plan is coming together slowly and so forth. We say that process must move forward.

Sengivala, ukubiza kwethu izimbizo kuyaqhubeka. [In conclusion, calling of imbizos will continue.]

These imbizos have been attended by thousands of our people in Mazizini and Mgungundlovu. We are going to Inkandla next time and it will be ongoing.

We say we support this mass participation and with our people being part of government. The NCOP started well because it started in KwaZulu-Natal to make sure that it goes to a province where it cannot fail. [Applause.]

USIHLALO WOMKHANDLU OMELE IZIFUNDAZWE: Angikubonge Ndunankulu. Uyabona umuntu uma esekhaya, uvele athathe konke nesikhathi. [Uhleko.] Siyabonga baba ngokusendlalela ngokuthi kwenzekani KwaZulu-Natali. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Premier. When you are at home, you take everything, including time. [Laughter.] Thank you very much, Premier, for your address concerning what is happening in KwaZulu-Natal.]

The PREMIER OF THE WESTERN CAPE (Mr E Rasool): Thank you very much, Chairperson. Mr President, His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelethini, Premiers, MECs, members of the NCOP, guests present, I think today has been a very important moment as the President begins to redefine the role of the NCOP. He does so particularly in the light of how local government can play its role in fulfilling the promise to create a people’s contract to create work and to fight poverty. We do so in a context where there is increasing clarity regarding the role of local government and we do so as we begin seriously to address the capacity constraints of that sphere of government.

Mr President, if I can speak to the debate that you have opened, and open a further debate about the role that provinces can play, not only in developing our developmental state, but in fulfilling the promise of the people’s contract, both to create work as well as to fight poverty. I think we take as the fountainhead the state of the nation address that you delivered earlier this year and we take as a further follow-up to that, the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement by Mr Manuel in Parliament last week. It is therefore obvious to all of us from both those addresses that we have a coherent development package to fulfil our people’s contract to create jobs and to fight poverty.

The national development package pivots around three closely interrelated thrusts: Firstly, ensuring growth and development in the first economy and increasing its possibility to create employment and jobs for our people; secondly, a battery of programmes to address the challenges facing those in the quagmire of the second economy, and thirdly, building a social security network to ensure poverty alleviation while we expand the capacity of the economy to absorb all in our society. It is this focused agenda which is underpinned by the expansive programme to reorient the very mechanisms and the instruments of the state through, amongst others, Batho Pele so that the state, its staff and its budget are truly equipped to implement these thrusts of our people’s contract.

Mr President, as you are well aware, our intergovernmental system is not yet fully geared to deliver on this approach in a coherent and effective manner. The recently debated Intergovernmental Relations Bill that you referred to provides a giant leap forward in resolving some of the key problems therein. However, what I believe remains lacking, despite the advance at an institutional architectural level coming through in the IGR Bill, is a more nuanced understanding of our intersphere governmental system in terms of building this developmental state that we have referred to.

Therefore, I think that what we need to do is to understand that we are indeed a unitary state that has to deal with the deep historical legacies of colonialism, slavery and apartheid. We must all acknowledge the importance of a strong national centre that can define policy direction with the benefit of a macro perspective, especially in the context of intensifying globalisation.

The national programme of action as led by you, Mr President, stands testimony to the fact that national government has taken this role seriously and is dispensing that role vigorously and effectively. It has redefined a comprehensive gamut of policies and programmes. More recently this has been defined further through the scenarios exercise by the Presidency to force us all to think about what kind of future we want, what we are doing now and how we imagine South Africa 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now. As you have pointed out, Mr President, excellent national policies will dissipate in the actions of effective implementation on the ground, where our people struggle to eke out a sustainable livelihood in a context of structural unemployment and deep poverty. This is where the local government sphere comes into play, as you pointed out. At its core, the developmental role of municipalities is to ensure the concrete delivery of appropriate goods and services to our people in a manner that cements our people’s contract at community level. It is also around these community delivery imperatives that local government can be a vital access point for the exercise of democratic citizenry, the mass participation that we have spoken about, by shaping, through partnerships, the content and the speed of local delivery programmes.

By definition, municipalities focus on their jurisdictional boundaries, which is a source of strength as well as a source of weakness; a strength because it allows a tactile engagement with ordinary citizens and organisations and creates the participation that you have referred to. It can become a weakness, Mr President, when it takes on the form of parochialism and many of our development strategies and programmes require taking a broad view to understand the complex interrelationship between economic, social, environmental and logistical factors that are at play at various geographical locations.

On this note, let me introduce this discussion on what I want to call the meso level or the meso scale of development, the scale between the micro and macro; the role that provinces can ideally begin to play. Provincial government is the interlocutor between that macro and micro by focusing on the meso factors in our national development effort, provincial governments fulfil a vital role in translating the national development agenda into a contextualised provincial framework.

An axiom of sustainable human development, as we all know, is that development must be context specific if it is to succeed. If it is abstracted, decontextualised, if it is blueprint-driven, those development frameworks simply will not work. A key role of provinces is therefore to ensure national consistency in our development efforts, but at the same time set the frameworks for localization and integration. I am obviously getting to the area of institutional systems that underpin our developmental state. I raise this because I believe that the absence of an understanding of the institutional linkages in the national development planning system can lead to false dichotomies between spheres of government on the one hand, and areas of development on the other.

We can end pitting economic growth versus poverty reduction, when these should be two sides of the same coin. To make this more concrete: If we look at the area of economic growth and development, it is clear that national government sets the macroeconomic framework and the supply side support mechanisms, municipalities through LED strategies activate these support mechanisms for small and emerging businesses so that they can migrate from the second economy into the first. However, in between these spheres, provinces must set sectoral growth strategies that can speak to the natural growth points that tend to spread across particular regions. The sectoral strategies work in terms of the national macroeconomic framework and simultaneously inform LED strategies.

The question is: Are provinces being empowered in resources, as well as in its mandates to fulfil this vital role and I believe that the answer is not always. Since this is a serious contention, allow me to qualify this assertion by referring to the bruising process of, for example, the Medium- Term Budget allocations. As you are aware, the formula for the equitable share has been revised. It boils down to 3:1 in terms of poverty to economic growth. Are we saying that economic growth becomes less important than the imperative to reduce poverty and are we pitting the two against each other and not seeing it as two sides of the same coin? The point is that as provincial budgets are reorganised, it is increasingly spending more and more of its money on health and education and, for the meantime, welfare services. If this begins to take up 90% of the budgets and activities of provinces, can we speak of provincial government? Or are we speaking of increasing our provincial administrations or even agents of national policy?

Let me not make this case through lamentation but demonstrate rather what the dangers are if we are embarking on such a path. The implementation of the National Spatial Development Plan that emanates from the Presidency is vital to refer to. The four principles of that plan would simply be: Economic growth is a prerequisite for the achievement of other policy objectives, key amongst which would be poverty alleviation.[Time expired.]

The PREMIER OF THE NORTHERN CAPE (Ms D Peters): Thank you, Chairperson. Mr President of the Republic, His Majesty the King, Premiers, Chairperson of Salga, hon members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, I stand here firmly believing that our visit to KwaZulu-Natal is a small spark that ignites a powerful reaction to create light and hope. When it is dark, there is fear and uncertainty and despondency. The spark is the intuition, vigour, faith, and determination to convert darkness into light and the impossible into opportunity. The person to ignite that spark is none other than our President, hon President Mbeki.

Some of the people of South Africa look on our province, the Northern Cape, and feel sorry for a sparsely populated province with long distances and what appears to be an insignificant budget. Yes, the province presents itself with unique challenges but it will take more than commitment and determination to overcome some of those challenges. The indicators on a variety of issues in our ten-year review show how the transformation process has changed the lives of our people in the Northern Cape for the better. The province built more houses per capita in the country than anywhere else. The province obtained the highest immunisation coverage, over 100%, therefore leading the country. It is more than tripled the number of health professionals in all disciplines and we obtained the highest matric pass rate in the country. [Applause.] This is confirmation of a province that seeks to be a trendsetter in improving the lives of all the province’s people.

In 2004 we entered into a people’s contract to fight poverty and create jobs. It is our contractual and moral obligation therefore to create jobs and bring new hope, that of a better life for our people in the Northern Cape. We have since April 2004 appointed more than 600 nursing assistants on learnership training programmes, recruited 464 new police officers for training, 300 social auxiliary workers and more than 1 328 catering assistants to handle food for learners during breaks, so that the teachers could be relieved to do what they have been appointed to do and to teach our children. [Applause.] We have also employed 398 early childhood practitioners and more than 200 graduates were employed as interns to gain experience in government departments. The importance of this intervention is to ensure that our young people gain the necessary experience, because every time we go to imbizos our young people will tell you how they apply, apply, apply and don’t get confirmation or appointments, because they would always be told that they lack experience.

Some 200 community development workers are in training and 117 are already deployed in various communities. In line with our Expanded Public Works Programme approximately 1 878 new houses would be built and 2 017 homes currently under construction will be completed. We have made the creation of jobs our priority and all departments, plus partners, will use their existing budgets and resources to maximise job creation. In line with the Expanded Public Works Programme we took a decision, as the Northern Cape, that we are going to create more than 9 030 jobs in the first year. Already at this time, Mr President, we have reached the 5 000 target and we wish to continue at an accelerated pace to reach the 9 000 mark. [Applause.]

We are under no illusions about the challenges we face and we recognize that large parts of our population remain vulnerable to the devastating effects of lower levels of the provincial economic growth and job creation. There can be no doubt that improving the performance of our provincial economy and in particular its capacity to generate new sustainable jobs must be our main priority. Thus we have just hosted our provincial growth and development strategy summit to focus and systematically identify areas of potential growth and how to maximise opportunities presented by these areas. After all, it is only through the achievement of sustained economic growth, in tandem with structural change and economic transformation, that we can in truth reduce the marked differences that define the gap between the first and the second economies in our province.

Our efforts to promote new investments in our provincial economy will continue. We have been carrying out an exercise designed to identify those constraints to economic development that would improve the investment climate. We must remind ourselves every time that there is no time for procrastination. Our people are exposed to humiliation and suffering, therefore we need to act today and not postpone anything for tomorrow. All our endeavours have to seek to better the lives of our people and some are forced to beg for a livelihood.

We are facing a number of challenges in the Northern Cape. Firstly, I need to indicate that we have the highest unemployment levels per capita in the country. And that is why the issue of creating work is such an important priority. Secondly, two thirds of our province is facing a devastating drought that is adversely affecting our agricultural sector and household water supply. The hardest hit area is the Namaqua district, where we are unable to provide the six kilolitres of free basic water and we even have to give our households two kilolitres per household, instead of the required numbers given. Farmers have been given drought relief grants but it has proven that it is not enough, because the drought conditions are not abating. The difficulty of delivering services to small pockets of communities in the Northern Cape, especially in the far outlying areas, some distances of the Northern Cape being more than 1 400 kilometres, like between Alexander Bay and Kimberley, which is the centre of government. Our ambulances and service transport don’t last long because of these distances.

The downscaling of mining operations in some areas like Concordia and Aggenys and some other areas in the province increases the unemployment rate even further.

There is also the serious challenge of the number of people receiving disability grants. We are told in some instances of people who are buying positive sputum of people infected with TB, because they want access to TB grants. And that is why this province has the highest per capita positive TB smears in the country. Our budget is consumed by these disability grants.

We are the only province in the country that saw a negative population growth. We try to check where our people are going. One colleague from KwaZulu-Natal said that he might have a solution for the population problem of the Northern Cape and I will engage my colleague to see what the solution is. It is time for us and our continent to re-emerge and solve those problems created by years of colonization and oppression. Sooner or later we will not have apartheid or colonisation to blame. I believe that with your support as the NCOP we will succeed in turning these challenges into opportunities. The sun always rises in the Northern Cape and we are focused with a clear vision to better the lives of our people.

It is when we are clear about our political imperatives as outlined in our growth and development strategy that we have to create administrative systems and strategies that would expedite their implementation. The sun always rises in the mist of our hopeless detractors who see nothing good that this government does. We hope the sun blinds them. The sun shines on the faces of our people suffering of hunger and burdened by diseases. Their faces brighten as the rays of hope lighten them to diminish the darkness of poverty. We are all in this together for a better, brighter day is here. We must all continue to try harder, and we as the Northern Cape people and as government say, we will stay focused and work together with our partners to bring a better life to the people of the Northern Cape. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson, Your Excellency the hon President, Your Excellency the King, hon members and other dignitaries, nomphakathi waseMpangeni ngiyanibingelela [and the community of Empangeni, I greet you all.]

The last time I had the pleasure of addressing this House in the presence of our hon President was at the inauguration ceremony in May this year. This was shortly after the opening of the National Assembly, where the leader of the DA, Mr Tony Leon, extended a hand of friendship to the President and his government. In my address I expressed similar sentiments and said that we wanted to help the government find solutions to the many challenges facing our beloved country.

Today, in debating the challenges facing us in addressing the enormous problems of unemployment and poverty, I want to reiterate my party’s wish to assist in finding solutions, and indeed underline our constitutional right and duty to do so. We need to be forthright and candid in our approach in building on successes and recognising failures, as well as neglected areas. I want to agree with the hon Deputy Chairperson of this House, but please allow me to continue. We need to be forthright and candid in our approach to building on our successes. Let me state upfront also, Mr President, that you have initiated many laudable programmes coupled with equally many successes.

This initiative of the NCOP, for instance, of bringing Parliament to the people, is certainly such a move in the right direction. We as public representatives were able to observe at, first hand, the heartbreaking plight of so many people. The people themselves were able to be part of a little bit of Parliament, where they could thank government for what they perceive to be positive, but also alas to give testimony of the many shortcomings, broken promises and, indeed, corrupt actions of those who have been elected to serve them. This is a big wound that needs to be cauterised properly, before it goes completely septic.

Yes, you do read of the odd case here and there, where illicit actions of elected representatives are investigated and punished – but that is just not enough. It is like dressing untreated wounds. We must rid our structures of these types, once and for all. This week we have just heard far too many accusations against councillors that boil down to no less than extortion. What are we trying to do, Mr President? Are we allowing a sort of mafia to prosper in South Africa? I think not. Whilst therefore applauding this week’s programme, I must tell you, however, that far too much time had been spent in allowing dignitaries to portray government and party policies from this stage, while those who should have been heard properly, do not have all the time that they needed and were continuously cut short and interrupted. The people really need to be heard properly. Let us keep the rhetorical campaigning for the elections.

I must also acknowledge that the Expanded Public Works Programme holds many possibilities and we have been able to observe some very successful programmes in operation. I for one was very impressed with the road- building project in the Limpopo Province. Much needed road links are improved, whilst many people have a chance of employment and subsistence, even if it is temporary. Part of the success of this project, however, is undoubtedly the concessions allowed in regard to minimum wages. The workers are paid only R30 per predetermined task, which means that the vigour and determination of the individual will determine his or her daily income. Those that are happy with only R30 will complete only one task per day, whilst the more enterprising and energetic can earn R60 or R90 or even more. We can find no fault with this as it creates new opportunities, but we do believe, Mr President, that these labour law concessions could and should be extended to the public sector. Just think how many more people would be employed, clothed, fed and helped, if we allow a company like Highveld Steel in Witbank to apply the same terms of employment as those applied to the road-building project in Limpopo.

The adverse living conditions of the ever growing squatter camps along the M4 Maputo Corridor will improve overnight and the shacks will systematically be replaced by owner-built houses. The cherry on the top is that it will not cost the government a cent. The DA today therefore calls on the President to initiate one such pilot project in partnership with industry and to measure the outcome before wiping the proposal off the table. I wish I had more time, but I am running out of time.

Let me hasten also to share with you a good story that has emanated from this visit to KwaZulu-Natal. On Monday we visited one particular school, where abject poverty was the order of the day. They have child-headed households, teenage pregnancies, school buildings that are dilapidated, no toilets to speak of, far too many children per teacher and for the classrooms available and help is direly needed. One of our members of the DA, Ms Chen from Gauteng, who is also a businesslady, was so touched by the plight of that school that she made a decision there and then and announced that she wanted to adopt that school and would help them financially. [Applause.] I end where I started, by saying what the leader of my party said to the President: Please listen to us. We want to help you. We are rivals and not enemies. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF MPUMALANGA (Mr T S P Makwetla): Hon Chairperson, President of the Republic, Your Majesty the King, fellow members, allow me to join those who have congratulated the President on the occasion of being conferred one of the awards by the University of Cape Town for his outstanding leadership role on the continent and beyond. The sitting of the NCOP has in a unique way accorded us a valuable opportunity to pause briefly, assess and reflect how our provinces have executed our duties in beginning the programme of the next five years to create work in order to fight poverty in the context of Vision 2014. Quite evidently in our province, just as in other provinces, the challenge to further promote the emotional integration of our people must be continuously addressed with vigour. In this regard we have understood the need, among others, to attend to the problem of politically improper names that many places and objects still bear in our province. This reality fits the unfortunate conflictual identities of the past and a fractured national heritage we still bear. We all agree to celebrate 10 years of freedom and to consolidate our nonracial democracy we must change the complexion of our province in this respect and relieve it of the many offensive names of yesteryear.

Still, the biggest challenge that we face as a province and as a country remains the socioeconomic transformation of millions of lives in this country and that cannot be denied. It is proper that coming from Mpumalanga we must be among those in this Chamber who are vocal about the need to change and transform the socioeconomic conditions of our people. This is so, because in spite of boasting one of the regions with a relatively better infrastructure and strong economy, the our province of Mpumalanga’s GN coefficient is below the national average. In our province, South Africa’s sharp contrasts of a modern and developed economy, which exists alongside an underdeveloped economy, could not be more pronounced. Ours is a region with some of South Africa’s best farms and of the wretched illiterate farm labourers who resemble the unfreed labour of the long past life of bondage. We are a region of acclaimed mines and industries and poor workers. We have a strong belief that our region’s economic potential has not been optimally exploited. Therein lies our confidence that Mpumalanga can phenomenally increase its growth rate. Key to this economic expansion is the popular view that the province must promote the downstream beneficiation of our primary products in all sectors.

Secondly, the competitive advantage offered by the Maputo Corridor initiative to exporters, in particular those in heavy industries, must be realised. Since we assumed our duties following the elections, we have been involved in a series of meetings to interact with key economic role-players in our province to understand their challenge and to forge a common perspective for our province. It is encouraging and inspiring to report that we are all of one mind, that what we are talking about is something more than economic growth. The challenge that Mpumalanga faces is that of growth combined with change. The process of economic growth that we clamour for must be managed as such that while the region realizes an increase in the real per capita income over a period of time, the number of people below the poverty line does not increase, but progressively decreases. This will firmly keep us on a course towards the goals of the 2014 Vision, that of reducing poverty and unemployment by half, 10 years from now. What we seek is much more than the simple acquisition of industries as it were.

We need a combination of forces whose inner logic will reveal a desire for an upward movement of the entire social system, characterized, among others, by a rise in productivity and technology, social and economic equity, and improved institution and attitude from among those who are doing business. It is especially in relation to the accomplishing of the latter goals that this august House is destined to be a valuable partner in delivering the 2014 Vision by our provinces.

The Expanded Public Works Programme is being rolled out with a lot of excitement. There is no doubt that a lot of benefits are going to accrue for our community from this programme and many valuable lessons will be learned in taking development to the people. It is important to remember that the endemic poverty in our community is the result of many factors, including colonial conquests, which led to the systematic removal of our people from their land.

To reverse this destituteness within many communities, we must put as many as possible of these families back on the land. The vital role played by local government in service delivery cannot be overemphasised.

Project consolidation has provided us with the critical management information, which we require to deal with the numerous incapacities of our municipalities in the delivery of services. In the long term one vital aspect, which will further add to improved service delivery in our municipalities, is the decision to allocate competencies to the different spheres of government more decisively. A few weeks ago Mpumalanga had the honour of hosting the national launch of the local economic development learnerships by the local government, water and related services Seta. On that occasion we made it known that we are proud and excited about the launch of the LED learnerships, because it was a development, which would complement our efforts to promote a growing provincial economy, in order to improve the lives of our people, particularly in the areas where they live. We also believe that the LED learnerships will address the urgent human resource development challenges facing our province and the capacity of managers and implementers of government policies within the public sector. The issue of the lack of capacity has been mentioned for many years as a reason for poor service delivery.

As the Mpumalanga provincial government we have a vested and biased interest in efforts that are aimed at supporting and deepening the improvement in human resource capacity within local government. This we believe has the potential to dramatically improve service provision and development in our province as a whole. Learnerships are important in the deepening of the smart partnerships in the province, both across spheres of government and between private and public institutions for skills development, service delivery and the economic growth of our province. It is through LEDs in partnerships with other provincial economic development initiatives that we will see the transformation of our areas, both rural and urban, into areas that are attractive to investors.

These areas can lead to the injection of much-needed funds that can promote both employment prospects and the ability of our people to access livelihoods. At the same time, a growing local economy will be accompanied by growing revenue for the municipalities, which will enable them to be more effective in developmental interventions. We need to emphasise that municipalities should try at all times to maximise their revenue base, including correct billing and collection of moneys owed to them. Municipalities should strive for the efficient and effective use of resources at their disposal in a manner that would address the needs of the people. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

In conclusion through partnership a better life is indeed realisable in conditions that speak to the efforts of all of us today. [Time expired.]

Mnuz M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, angibonge kuMongameli wezwe, Luhlanga lwezwe! Bayede! Namakhosi akhona, oNgqongqoshe bezifunda nezifundazwe, abafowetho nodadewethu siyanibingelela nonke. Angisike elijikayo ngoba sincane isikhathi enginikezwe sona lapha.Ngihalalisela uMongameli ngomklomelo esibone eklonyeliswa wona izolo komabonakude laphayana eNyuvesi yaseMpumlanga Koloni. Sithi nje kuphela unwele olude Mongameli uma imisebenzi yakho ikulandela beyibona banye wena mhlawumbe ungayiboni. Unwele olude! (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr M A MZIZI: Thank you, Chairperson. President, His Majesty the King, Bayede! Traditional leaders present, provincial Premiers, Ministers, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all. I won’t say much, because the time allocated to me is limited. I would like to congratulate the President on the award he was given on national television yesterday by the University of the Eastern Cape. We are saying to you: Long live, President, because your work follows you. People are recognising you. You might not have been aware of that. Long live!]

Chairperson, no political democracy can survive and flourish if a great majority of the people under its governance are still imprisoned by poverty and depravation. Today, 10 years into our democracy, our people have grown weary of empty promises and rhetorical phrases and a better life that never materialise. It is therefore most critical that the agenda we set, the promises we make and the policies we formulate should, as a matter of precedence be turned into a tangible and workable solution that yields tangible results. One of the major challenges we face in terms of improving the quality of life of our people is that of forging greater co-operation among all levels of government, underpinned by the principle of democracy in this respect. No level of governance should be viewed to be functioning in isolation from a whole structure of governance. We need therefore to forge acceptance of a democratic principle of transparency and accountability between the NCOP, the provinces and local government.

There has to be an adequate understanding about what our role and responsibilities entail for optimum desired results, as we are also bound by the principle of a democracy not to interfere with one another’s roles and responsibilities, but not as far as oversight, abuse, power and accountability are concerned. It therefore has to be maintained that any sphere of government that does not agree with the ethic of accountability only seeks to embody undemocratic principles that are related and reckless abuse of power and positions for personal gain.

We need to pay more attention to getting rid of this political arrogance, which often shifts the focus from serving our people to that of our political egos and power control, as well as exclusionary forms of decision- making that do not at all benefit our people on the ground. This is not a call for the abandonment of principles. It is a call for allowing the process of constructive engagement to take place at all levels and governance, and basing decisions on soundness, instead of basing them entirely on who has the power to make the final decision. This requires acceptance that democracy opens up the platform and opens up communication. It is about acceptance of the existence of a public life and a government and governments where there is no truth but many opinions competing against one another. The competition of viewpoints through constructive debate for the best alternative is what a true democracy is all about. We should not lose sight of focusing on finding the best alternative through constructive debate.

Mongameli, angisike kwelijikayo. Ezindaweni esizihambele bekungekuningi esikubonile kodwa kukhona okungihlabe umxhwele uma sifika endaweni yaseMangwe Care Centre okuyindawo lapho okunakekelwa khona asebagula ngendlela yokuthi umthwalo ususobhokweni abasekuphinda emuva, sithole benakekelwe kahle kakhulu. Nokho, okubonakalayo lapho ukuthi sengathi kunezinqinamba eziphathelene nokungabi bikho kwezimali kahle ukuze bawufeze lowo msebenzi uphumelele. [Ihlombe.] Okunye okuye kwangithinta kakhulu kuthe uma sesifika ezindaweni ezingaphandle lapho khona kukhona laba abavolontiyayo ezindaweni ezisemakhaya, ngathola umama obengaphakathi endlini umbona naye ukuthi-ke umthwalo ususobhokweni akusekho ukuphinda emuva. Ngizwa sengathi kuthiwa usenezingane azibhekile kanti akukho kwababa ekhaya. Angazi umkhandlu wesifunda salapho uthini. Ukhula ulubona selungena ngewindi selufika nasemnyango. Abaningi omama bangena phakathi. Thina madoda asingenanga kodwa kuya kwafika enhlizweni ukuthi usizi luseluningi futhi lumi lodwa ezweni. Kuyadingeka ukuthi uhulumeni azihlinzekele lezi zinto. Mhlawumbe kuzofanele sibhukule futhi sizifikele mathupha sonke kube uhulumeni wezifunda, owasekhaya kanye noMkhandlu weziFundazwe zikaZwelonke. Kufanele sibhukule impela sibone ukuthi yini engase yenziwe ukuze uhulumeni akwazi ukuletha izinsiza kubantu abantulayo ngoba phela uma ugula usuke ungasenamandla. Yilokho nje Mongameli engithi angisike elijikayo kwesikubonile. [Time expired.]](Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[President, I would like to say a few things. We have seen many things at the places we visited. However, something interested me when we reached the Mangwe Care Centre, which is a place where those who are terminally ill are cared for. They are being looked after in a very dignified manner. There were signs of financial problems that hampered the efficient performance of that work. [Applause.] I was touched when we visited the rural areas where volunteers are working. There was a woman one could tell was terminally ill. I heard that she had children to look after and that she had no husband. I wonder what the local council has done. The grass has grown high, it reaches up to the door, and is up to window level. Many women got inside. We as men did not get inside. It came to my mind that suffering is still rife and we have a long way to go. It is incumbent upon the government to plan for this.

It is important however, that local and provincial government and the National Council of Provinces should work hard. We have to work hard to ensure that the indigent are provided with basic necessities, because if you are sick you don’t have the strength to do something. That is all I wanted to mention to you, President, some of the things we have seen. [Time expired.]]

The PREMIER OF LIMPOPO (Mr S Moloto): Chairperson, hon President, His Majesty the King, my colleagues the Premiers of other provinces, the Chairperson of Salga, hon members, in April this year the people of South Africa gave the ANC an overwhelming mandate to implement our policies, programmes and strategies for the second decade of our freedom. They identified job creation and the elimination of poverty as being at the top on the national agenda. What is important about the April result is not only the fact that the ANC extended its national majority, but that we have achieved this in each of the nine provinces independently. The result is here for all of us to see, collectively united behind a common banner and a shared programme of action.

The major challenge awaiting us is how we are to strengthen our resolve practically to bring about the ideal of a better life for all South Africans. How do we give practical meaning to the mandate given to us to proceed on the path of growth and development?

The recently published Ten-Year Review highlights the tremendous progress we made in the past decade to deliver services to our people. It also underscores the fact that local government is indeed that sphere of government closest to communities and thus reflects the service delivery point. The people therefore have the right to demand of the elected representatives in towns and the hinterlands to deliver quality services and to deliver it in time. There can be no excuses for public representatives at local government level not to be fully informed and responsive to the needs of their people.

As representatives of our provinces, we are also keenly aware of the many challenges that still exist in local government, especially in rural areas, as ably explained by the President in his opening remarks. One of these challenges is a major skills handicap, an issue that is experienced within the broader economy, but especially felt within the local governance sphere. This lack of skills has an impact on our ability effectively to meet the major developmental challenges and basic needs. We are delighted that Project Consolidate is meant to deal with these deficiencies and challenges. We are acknowledging the fact that we have succeeded in putting in place a strong policy and regulatory framework. The weakness has been, as the President explained, that our implementation mechanisms have been found wanting. This is an area that we are supposed to be focusing on.

One of the primary duties of this House is to reflect the views of the nine provinces and to integrate this into the broader national strategies and programmes. We also believe that this House has an opportunity to consider the broader issues of service delivery and to study and debate options on how to allocate resources, including human resources, to ensure sustainable development on a national scale. This is an issue that has also been discussed in representative forums and working groups, including Salga and Nedlac. We believe that the time has come to put in place effective and responsive senior management in local government structures throughout our country and to stop relying on crisis management and stopgap measures.

As the national government departments transfer the bulk of their budgets and allocations directly to these local authorities, it is incumbent on our municipalities to ensure that these funds are spent in a more efficient and effective way. We are proud of the significant progress we have made over the past six months of our second decade of freedom. In building on the achievements and successes of the first decade of our democracy, we convened sectoral summits in our province for two reasons: To canvas views from all the stakeholders and secondly to mobilise and canvas buy-in by all these stakeholders.

These summits culminate in the provincial growth and development summit that adopted a strategy that will certainly enable us to expand our economic basis and create more opportunities for job creation and the development of local skills bases. We concluded our provincial summits with a renewed sense of hope and optimism about our future and it is with a similar sense of hope that we are participating in this debate and listening to what is happening across the country. We trust that this forum will continue to play a meaningful and decisive role in the broader national engagement and that the decisions taken here will assist us in achieving our national goals to create employment opportunities in order to combat the scourge of underdevelopment and poverty. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J D THIBEDI (North West): Chairperson, Your Excellency the President, His Majesty the King, Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal and other provincial Premiers here today, members of the NCOP, fellow South Africans, please allow me to begin by saying that I am humbled by this opportunity to address this meeting of the NCOP. On behalf of organized local government, kindly allow me to make a few comments on the challenges and successes of local government in the process of building a caring society, guided by the principles of democracy, nonracialism, nonsexism and the quest for a prosperous society.

The December 2000 local government elections marked the beginning of the final stage of restructuring and the development of local government in South Africa. At times we do not fully appreciate the extent of our local government dispensation and how well this sphere of government compares with other counterparts elsewhere in the world. Local government in South Africa is recognised both in the Constitution and in various relevant pieces of legislation. In the face of enormous difficulties, municipalities have delivered services and have been able to grapple with worrying issues with success. One can speak here of urban renewal, the fight against corruption and poverty and various other initiatives. Our role as organised local government is not only to ensure that the voice of local government is heard, but also that we help to build capacity among member municipalities and share best practices among ourselves as municipalities. We have an additional challenge, to build Salga into a powerful instrument capable of being placed in the hands of municipalities to help build a better life for all our people.

The Constitution outlines the objectives of local government in section 152, as has been explained by the President. Let me, however, emphasise that, firstly, local government is local democracy in action. This refers to both representative democracy and participatory democracy. To municipalities we say yes to regular and periodic elections. Do govern with the full mandate given to you by the electorate and the citizens of the municipalities, but do also pay attention to the need to engage communities in an ongoing manner. This refers to, amongst others, building a vibrant democracy by involving the masses of our people and the numerous civil organization societies out there, even though their voices may at times appear to be out of tune in matters of governance. Let there be a sense that their voices are also being heard.

Secondly, local government is also about economic development and social development. Local government is about an economic role-player at the local level and a social development partner with communities. Chairperson, individual municipalities are faced with numerous challenges. These range from poverty and unemployment, social delivery and water and sanitation, the question of housing, the delivery of roads, ensuring safety and building safe communities at the local level, as well as ensuring that public representatives remain ever engaged with the masses of our people and the various organisations of society.

As we move further into the future, we need to ensure the following: Enhance and deepen the involvement of people in the RDP processes. This would not only ensure that each municipality has the actual needs of its people at its fingertips, but in addition, it will also assist a great deal in ensuring that priorities are properly identified. This will also make local economic development a reality in various localities. As we move into the future, we need to focus our attention on getting the basics right. This will include, amongst others, correcting the billing system, raising and collecting all the revenue due to individual municipalities, fixing leaking pipes, especially in relation to water, and ensuring that all unaccounted for water becomes a problem of the past. Indeed, traffic lights in a local area need to function properly, especially in the cities. The programmes of Salga should be fully implemented, including amongst others, the whole question of ensuring that the core councillor training programme is revived and strengthened so that we would be able to address the question of skills capacity gaps amongst local public representatives.

We need to look at the Expanded Public Works Programme, which holds great promise and hope for the creation of work at the local level. We need to ensure the implementation of municipal infrastructure grants and that indeed Project Consolidate becomes a reality at the local level. Let me add, other similar initiatives should become a reality as we grapple with these immense challenges and as we move into the future. The question of partnership with communities is critical. Our understanding is that government and government alone, acting in isolation, will only do so much and achieve so much but together we indeed stand to gain more. Indeed, we stand to achieve much more.

Finally, let me salute the President of the Republic for putting local government at the centre of governance. We believe, as Salga, that this is where local government belongs. The debate is very timely. We find your work both encouraging and inspiring. South African municipalities stand foursquare behind this conception. Let me assure you that organized local government and member municipalities are indeed looking forward to a meaningful engagement with both the NCOP and Parliament. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE FREE STATE (Ms F B Marshoff): Mr President, Chairperson of the NCOP, His Majesty the King, hon Premiers, members of the NCOP, the Chairperson of Salga, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, since 1994 the lives of hundreds and thousands of people in our country have changed for the better. Many have benefited from social security safety nets, free comprehensive health care, as well as access to education. Thousands of the poor and marginalised now have roofs over their heads, access to free basic water and electricity. We can truly say with pride that together, as a collective, we have strived and continue to do so, to give effect to the people’s contract to create jobs, to fight poverty and underdevelopment.

While we understand where we want to be, and how we want to get there, our path is riddled with obstacles. As you know, the Free State is largely a rural province and the bulk of the people who have been previously marginalised are hidden on our farms, as well as in the former Bantustans. Most of these people still do not have access to free basic water services. Most of our people do not have access to services such as the most basic thing, when a child is born, not having access to services such as the registration of the birth of the newborn child. In this regard, our provincial government is working hard, together with local government, to address these backlogs that we have identified and also to continuously improve on the quality of life of the people of the Free State.

Every day we are delivering a little bit more to our people. And we are saying constantly to our people that what we have today is better than what we had yesterday. We also commit ourselves to continue to improve on what they can look forward to for a brighter tomorrow, a brighter future, a brighter Free State that will be able to address their needs.

Recently our provincial government has had to deal with this discontent among our communities. All of us, I am sure, still have in our minds the issue around Ntabaswe and Harrismith, where the local municipal offices went up in flames. Whilst we are confronted with these challenges, whilst our people had the courage to stand up and say to us that we had not delivered on some of the most basic services promised to them, as a province, as a local authority that has been affected in this regard, we have also been able to say to our people: We are aware that they are having difficulties, but as a provincial government we are hard at work at trying to solve those problems.

We were humbled by the realisation of the extent of the appalling living conditions of some of our fellow South Africans. It came to us as a very harsh reality, whilst we were under the impression that we had already delivered on the most basic of our promises, that there were some critical areas that were still outstanding. What we have also realised was that at the core of this problem was the lack of capacity to deliver by our municipalities.

A report by the Development Bank of South Africa (DBSA) was handed over to us just two days ago states clearly that whilst we are addressing the backlogs, we have not been able to address all the backlogs, especially with regard to water, sanitation and electricity delivery. Whilst we have made some strides in regard to refuse removal, others are still lacking.

Chairperson, as the President has so rightly said in his address this morning, we have to strive towards a more effective and efficient local government and a delivery system that will be able to respond to the needs of our people. We are working very hard to achieve that. The issue of capacity within our municipalities is also a very complex one. We have municipalities that are struggling financially. When you look at the report and also at the areas that have been identified in the report that has been delivered to us by the Department of Local Government and Housing, more than 60% of municipalities in our province are very cash-strapped. They are struggling financially. They do not have the capacity to deliver to our people and they also do not have the human capacity to unblock those blockages that have been identified. It is our humble belief that through Project Consolidate we would be able to do justice to ensure that we unblock those blockages and that we are in a position to deliver to the people in our province. To this extent, we have already put support teams in some of these struggling municipalities with the assistance of the Department of Local Government and Housing and as we are speaking here they are working on a strategy to ensure that those critical areas are addressed.

We cannot also outmanoeuvre or downplay the role that consultants play in addressing some of these issues. What we have found is that when you send in some of the support teams and you send in consultants, they only do the minimum. They are not in a position to transfer skills. They are not in a position to leave the capacity behind. When they leave the municipalities they also bring about a collapse in the system put in place. For us it is very critical, when we introduce a strategy to address the problems and the shortcomings in our municipalities, that we make sure they do address the issue around leaving some capacity behind. Some of the other challenges that we have is that the officials in these municipalities are sometimes not adequately skilled to interact with the communities. Communication strategies do not exist. Sometimes our elected representatives are not in a position to communicate effectively with the communities that they are serving. We are saying that in order for us to address these areas and to turn around the problems that we have in these municipalities, we need to address those shortcomings as a matter of urgency. Sometimes we also pick up in some of our municipalities that there are no bottlenecks or constraints, but just an issue of ideological differences, so that they are unable to serve our communities. We are addressing this. To us the bottom line is that we have to serve our communities. We have to ensure that we are able to restore the dignity of our people and if we are not in a position to improve on service delivery, to improve the quality of life of our people, we would have failed the people of the Free State in addressing their concerns. We have made a commitment to the people of the Free State, the contract they signed with us after the general elections, that we will work very hard to ensure that we fulfill our promises made to them. We will not allow a situation to continue where we dissociate ourselves from the communities that we are supposed to be serving. We will not allow a situation to continue where we are not in a position to effectively interact with the people that we are serving. And we will not allow ourselves not to be able to communicate with the people whom we are serving. [Applause.]

INKULUMBUSO YEPHONDO LE MPUMA KOLONI (Nkskz N Balindlela): Mandithathe le mbeko ndibulise umongameli wethu wesizwe, ndibulise kuso isilo samabandla, ndibulise kongqongqoshe bonke abakhoyo nakubo oonduna-nkulu bazo zonke iziphakula zamaphondo esisuka kuwo, ndibulise nakumalungu epalamente kaNdlu- nkulu awamaphondo nangokukunjalo koomeya nooceba babo. Ndikhawulezise ke presidante ndithi . . . (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The PREMIER OF THE EASTERN CAPE (Ms N Balindlela): Let me take the honour to greet the President, His Majesty the King, Cabinet Ministers, Premiers, members of National Assembly, members of the National Council of Provinces, mayors as well as councillors. Just quickly . . .]

. . . I would also like to say on behalf of the Eastern Cape we congratulate you sincerely for the award that you have just received. We were very proud of you where we saw you on television and I think what made us more proud was your beautiful smile. [Applause]. You know, President, . . . kufuneka uyazi into yokuba unoncumo oluhle lomfana. [Appaluse] [. . . you must know that you have a great smile, of a gentleman.]] [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

In the Eastern Cape we began our second decade of democracy with the commitment to meet both targets for the first hundred days in August, with over one hundred priority projects and programmes that were aimed at service delivery, with clearly set targets. The projects were meant to set a new pace, a new approach and a new tone of service delivery as envisaged in our provincial growth and development plan. I am emphasising the new pace, the new approach and the tone. Just as you have also noticed, that has meant that we have to have the four o’clock in the morning meetings and that has also been demonstrated by the recent Cabinet meeting which we had on board the SAS Mendi. That is the commitment we have made to our people.

The programmes were launched on 5 May, when there was an assertion of our resolve to practicalities, particularly when it comes to the concept of the people’s contract. I would like to quickly share with our members here our achievements as contained in our one hundred days report …

. . . esiyizisileyo apha ke ekhoyo esinqwenela ukuba wonke umntu okhoyo apha xa edlula ngasemnyango ayifumane le one hundred days report. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Size neebhokisi ezininzi. [. . . that we have brought here, and we hope that everybody here will get a copy at the exit door. [Applause.] We have come with many boxes.]

Just to share some of these achievements: We have a programme that is called “Thetha norhulumente wakho” [speak to your government], where all district municipalities and the metro can link with our departments, and of course with government. The employment of the about 180 community development workers in our municipalities has made a wonderful improvement as far as the services and the information that . . . [Inaudible.]

“Apho sithe sathabatha amanye amakhaya ngenxa yokuba engenazo izinto . . . “ [We have adopted some other homes because they did not . . .]

. . . one of those homes was the President’s home and we have used it for about five years.

. . . singenayo iLibrary kodwa ngoku sinayo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Ngoku lonto ithetha ukuba siyazibulela izinto ezinjalo ezithi, the deliverables, apho zinako ukwenzeka khona zenzeke msinyane. [We did not have a library, but we have one today. [Applause]. We are grateful for such initiatives, so that delivery, where possible, can take place quickly.]

We are also very happy that 1 600 people are now back at work at Magwa, where we have our Magwa tea scheme. We are also happy that we have 200 young people who have joined the youth entrepreneurship business centre . . . “ . . . nabo bayasebenza ngokuzinikela”. [. . . are showing signs of dedication.]

We have a very big megareserve called the Baviaanskloof Megareserve, which has been listed during the 28th World Heritage Committee Convention in China in July 2004. We are expecting more jobs to be created. Some 48 women have been trained in house-building construction in the Chris Hani, Alfred Nzo and O R Thambo Municipalities. These women have their contractors and we are happy that they can now get into a preferential procurement policy. [Applause.] This is, in short, what I want to say. We have now felt the power of government at all levels. We are aware that without these “ . . . besingasoze sikwazi siyanyanzeleka sisondele ebantwini.” [. . . we would never have achieved that and we were compelled to come closer to people.]

It is therefore in that spirit that we now have launched a second PGDP plan for the government. This PGDP plan . . .

“ . . . nantsi bantakwethu nayo size nayo apha kuni niyiphathe nisincedise [we have also come up with it so that you could help us . . . ] to share ideas on it.

It focuses on the specific and tangible deliverables that will impact positively on the lives of the people of the Eastern Cape, whilst strengthening the relationship between the three spheres of government. We are very happy that this plan is a plan that undertook a consultative process and all the mayors, and all the districts, we brought together through our provincial growth and development plan and the IDPs.

Imnandi ke lonto kuba akukho mntu uzakuthi akalazi elenziwa linxele okanye ikunene aliyazi eyenziwa ekhohlo.Xa ndiza kuqukumbela ndithanda ukutsho ndithi . . . [It is a magnificent idea, as everybody would know who is doing what and where. In conclusion, I would like to say . . .]

. . . we in the Eastern Cape are aware that without a proper monitoring mechanism we are not going to get where we want . . .

. . . ngoba kaloku xa sihamba ezi mbizo sisiya kubantu basekhaya basibuza besitsho besithi ingxaki nani rhulumente ninika imali iiprojects ngeeprojects kodwa aniziqwalaseli anizazi iimali. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Batsho besithi ke presidenti masingathi siyaqinisa ngemonitoring yethu.

Siyavuya ke ukuba . . . (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[When we attend community meetings, we are told that government gives money for projects that are not monitored. [Applause.] People say we must improve our monitoring strategies.

We are happy because . . .]

. . . we are now establishing a very strong monitoring barometer in the Premier’s Office. We are also very grateful for the NCOP’s oversight function. We have already felt your power when you visited our province. We know that we are going to try.

“Xa ndigqiba ndifuna nje ukuthi . . .” [Finally, I want to say . . .] . . . Mr President, we have promised the people of the Eastern Cape that we will serve them with humility, with honesty and integrity. We are also using your words of wisdom, which you have uttered on that wonderful day on the eve of the election, that we shall not abandon the poor. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr F CACHALIA (Gauteng): Chairperson of the NCOP, Comrade President, Your Majesty the King, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Premiers, members of the NCOP, members of the public, amandla!

I’d like to convey the apologies of our Premier, who is unable to be here because his eldest brother is being laid to rest. This must be and indeed is the first time in the history of our country that one of the Chambers of the National Parliament meets here in the heart of KwaZulu-Natal, amidst the rolling hills of Empangeni. It is also the first time in our history that the President is here to address Parliament and the people of Empangeni. [Applause.]

Comrade President, let me take this opportunity to express my dismay at the statement that I recently heard on the BBC by one of the luminaries of the Progressive Reform Party, the predecessor of the DA, Mrs Helen Suzman. She has a reputation for being an opponent of apartheid. The statement she made was that the old white parliament elected by 20% of the population was indeed a more accountable parliament and that there was more accountability then than there is today. I am sure that none of the people in Empangeni believes that statement to be true. I am convinced that our people have a deep reverence, value and celebrate the democracy that we have enjoyed for the past ten years. Our people understand the difference between freedom and oppression. [Applause.]

Our people do not judge this freedom only in material terms, because we understand the value of human dignity. It is also true that over the next 10 years we must transform the lives of our people. We must accelerate service delivery. We must end poverty. We must address unemployment through job creation and development. If we are going to address this challenge of development over the next 10 years, we must strengthen the capacity of the state to deliver. Whatever our ideological opponents might say about the importance of markets in any project of development, it can hardly be gainsaid that they must be to strengthen the capacity of the democratic state, in all spheres of government, all organs of state, to deliver. This indeed was the challenge that the President identified for us today. If we are to strengthen the capacity of the democratic state to deliver on development, then indeed we must strengthen the capacity of the state to co- ordinate and integrate. This will enable us to achieve greater policy coherence and focus our scarce resources more effectively.

I want to agree, Comrade President, with the observation made in this regard by the Premier of the Western Cape. We do indeed also have to look at the resources available to provinces to address the challenge of both economic growth and development. In a province like Gauteng we face growing service delivery backlogs, because our population is increasing, urbanisation is gathering pace and we have real concerns about whether the resources that we have are going to be adequate to address the challenges that we face over the next 10 years. But, we must recognise that within existing resource envelopes much more can be done through better co- ordination and integration to improve service delivery. We intend to meet that challenge.

We must strengthen the policy-making process through more effective monitoring of the implementation of policy. I agree with the assessment that the basic policy frameworks are in place and that the challenge for the next 10 years must focus on improving implementation. Thirdly, and without question perhaps most fundamentally, we must increase popular participation in the policy-making process, for the simple reason that increased participation assists us to learn from our people, assists us to learn from our experience, assists us as the state to improve our capacity for problem solving and so many of the challenges that we face with respect to service delivery is a question about slow incremental changes that become possible by learning through experience.

I want to raise this challenge: What do we mean by popular participation? Is it sufficient for us to meet only in the presence of our people? That certainly is a positive step, but the real question we face is: How do we ensure that our people have the resources for political participation in decision-making? We know that poverty impairs not only the life chances of our people, but also affects the capacity of our people to participate in decision-making. I think the challenges for the NCOP but also for provincial legislatures and for local government, and also for the NA, are not only to open up by changing our Rules to facilitate public participation, but to ensure that our people have the resources to participate.

One of those resources the President identified in his speech was information. How do we ensure that when we deal with Bills or other policy matters in standing committees that people, through the NGOs and the CBOs, and directly, particularly the poor, are able to articulate their interests and perspectives in standing committees in the actual process of decision- making? I am convinced that the NCOP can and should play a vital role in the next 10 years in strengthening the capacity of the state to deliver, precisely because of the uniqueness of this institution. As the President pointed out, this is the only institution that represents all three spheres of government: 294 municipalities and 9 provincial governments are represented in this second Chamber. This institution not only occupies a unique position in our system of government in South Africa but it is also a unique institution internationally. There is no other second Chamber anywhere in the world that is structured quite like the NCOP. [Applause.] Because it represents all three spheres of government, it plays a vital role as a point of convergence in our system, as a point of confluence for assisting us to co-ordinate and integrate.

It plays a vital role as a feedback mechanism in the process of implementation. It plays, as it has demonstrated today, a vital role in ensuring that our people have the ability to participate. I want to say, Comrade President, I am particularly pleased that you are lending your support to this institution. The day should end when the NCOP is seen simply as the small brother or the stepchild of the NA.

Comrade Chairperson, I thought if I praised the NCOP you would extend my time. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Most unfortunately, your time has expired.

Mr F CACHALIA (Gauteng): Thank you, Chairperson, I am looking forward to working with the NCOP over the next 10 years to meet the challenges we face. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mr Cachalia, next time we will give you enough time to praise us.

Nksz M N OLIPHANT: Sihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe, Mongameli wezwe ohloniphekileyo, iSilo samabandla, oNgqongqoshe, uSekelasihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe, amalunga ePhalamende nomphakathi, namhlanje kuwumlando omkhulu endaweni yalapha Empangeni ngokuthi iPhalamende lize kubantu bakhona okokuqala ngqa lapha KwaZulu-Natali. Ngiyafisa ukwazisa le ndlu ukuthi ububha nenhlupheko eyadalwa ubandlululo isabashikashika abantu bakithi. Okucasula kakhulu ukuthi kukhona abangasafuni ukuthi iphathwe indaba yobandlululo ngoba bethi kade lwaphela kodwa lube lusandla izindwani kuhle komfula ungenisa. [Ihlombe.]

Ngiyafisa-ke ukuthi kengichazele umnumzane u-Watson ukuthi azikho izethembiso ezephulwa yi-African National Congress. Ngonyaka ka-1955, uKhongolose wavumelana kuSomqulu weNkululeko e-Kliptown ngokuthi umnyango wezemfudo uyovuleka ngokuthi uhulumeni axhase imfundo anikezele ngamathuba emifundaze. Ngikhuluma nje uMongameli wezwe ngesikhathi ethula inkulumo yakhe ngenyanga kaNhlaba kulo nyaka, wayisho yonke iminyango enezinsizangqangi. Ngakho-ke intsha yakithi kufanele iwathathe lama thuba. Izolo lokhu sibonile odokotela balapha eNingizimu Afrika bebuya e-Cuba kade beyoqeqeshwa. Babeqeqeshwa mahhala ngenxa yokuxhumana kukahulumeni oholwa yi-African National Congress nowase-Cuba. Ihlombe.

[Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon President of the country, His Majesty, Ministers, Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, members of Parliament and the community, today history is being made in this area of Empangeni in that Parliament has come to this community in KwaZulu-Natal for the first time.

I wish to raise in this House that the poverty caused by apartheid still exists under our people. What is annoying is that there are people who do not want to hear a thing about apartheid because they say it is over, while it still exists and occurs. [Applause.]

I wish to explain to Mr Watson that the ANC did not break any promises. In 1995, the ANC agreed with the Freedom Charter in Kliptown that the Department of Education would be opened up if the government subsidised education by giving scholarships. When the President of the country presented his speech in May this year, he mentioned all the departments with the resources to do so. Therefore our youth must take these opportunities. Recently we have seen South African doctors returning from Cuba, where they received training. They were trained free of charge, because of the co-operation of the ANC and the government of Cuba. [Applause.]]

Arising from the same clause, Mr Watson . . .

Kunomthetho owashaywa nguhulumeni wokuthi ayikho ingane eyoxoshwa esikoleni uma ingenayo imali yokukhokha. Nokho-ke kufanele ukuthi abazali kube yibona abazobikela othisha ezikoleni ukuthi banawo yini amandla noma abanawo, ukuze kube namalungiselelo ukuthi lezi zingane zifunde mahhala. Ngiyafisa- ke ukuthi abazali abasebenzayo bazikhokhele izingane zabo bangajezisi ukuthi uhulumeni unikezela ngokuthi izingane ezingakwazi ukukhokha ezikoleni zifunde mahhala nabo bese bethatha lelo thuba lokuthi bangakhokhi. Uhulumeni ubhekelela ikakhulukazi abantu abampofu nabangasebenzi.[Ihlombe.] Okudabukisa kakhulu-ke ukuthi ngesikhathi kuphasiswa lo Mthethosisekelo, kukhona amanye amaqembu ayephikisa. Ngiyafisa-ke ukuthi umnumzane u-Watson akabheke ukuthi ngabe akuyobna yini i-DA eyayiyingxenye yalawo maqembu ayephikisa lo Mthetho. [Ihlombe.]

Siyabonga kungqongqoshe wezemfundo u-Ina Cronje ngokuthi aqinisekise ukuthi othisha bazobambisana nabazali. Sibonga kakhulu futhi ukuthi ungqongqoshe u- Ina Cronje uqinisekisile ukuthi ezikoleni ebebezivakashele noSihlalo woMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe kuzofanele kuthi ezinyangeni ezintathu amagumbi okufundela kuleso sikole ebesakhiwe kanye nendlu yomtapo wezincwadi. Nokho-ke ngiyafisa ukuthi kusekhona ezinye izikole ezifana neNdesheni ezalinyazwa wudlame nezingakalungiswa. Ngicela ukuthi nazo kube ezinye zeziphambili ezizolungiswa ngokushesha. [Ihlombe.]

USomqulu weNkululeko ubuye uqhubeke uthi abasebenzi basezimayini nabasezindlini kanye nabasemapulazini bayoba namalungelo njengabo bonke abasebenzi. Ngesikhathi kuphasiswa lo Mthetho ePhalamende, i-Da yiyona eyawuphakamisa kodwa namhlanje umnumzane u-Watson uzothi kufanele ukuthi sisebenzisane ne-DA. Sizosebenzisana kanjani nabantu abaphikisa imithetho ebhekelele amalungelo abantu abahluphekayo? [Ihlombe.] Ngiyafisa-ke futhi ukusho ukuthi namhlanje laba basebenzi sebengakwazi ukuthi bathole imali ye- UIF noma ngabe bayayeka emsebenzini. Siyethemba futhi nokuthi abalimi sebeyekile ukukhokhela abantu umholo ngethotho ukuze badakwe bacabange ukuthi imali ebebeyiholile ilahlekile kanti bebengatholanga ngishi uzuka kuleyo mali. [Ihlombe.]

Sibonga umlimi okwathi ngesikhathi uMongameli ehlaba umkhosi ngo-1996 wokuthi osomabhizinisi kufanele ukuthi basebenzisane nohulumeni ukwenza izimpilo zabantu zibe ngcono, naye wabamba iqhaza kuleyo ndawo. Kunesaga-ke esithi uma ufundise umuntu wesifazane ufundise isizwe sonke. Namhlanje iPhalamende lilapha KwaZulu-Natali. Umuntu wokuqala oqale ukusebenzisa lolu hlelo umuntu wesifazane umhlonishwa uNaledi Pandor. Namhlanje luholwa unkosikazi Kgaoli naye ongumuntu wesifazane. [Ihlombe.] Lokhu kukhombisa ngokusobala-ke ukuthi uma ufundise umuntu wesifazane ufundise isizwe sonke. Yingakho nje mhlonishwa Mongameli silapha.

Sithole ukuthi kunanepulazi elisetshenzwa abantu besifazane elingolokuqala ngqa ukufuya izinhlanzi. Umhlonishwa-ke uNdabandaba ngiyacabanga wesaba ukuthi abantu besifazane bazothatha amandla wase ecela amadoda ukuthi nawo awabe yingxenye yokuthi abe nepulazi lokufuya izinhlanzi. [Ihlombe.] Ngokuthi-ke i-African National Congress ayinamona, izobafundisa futhi ibasize nalabo abasafuna ukwenza njalo.

Singabantu besifazane-ke kuyofuneka sifinqe iziketi ukuze sakhe izinhlangano zomsebenzi ngoba uhulumeni usinikezile imali. Uma nikhumbula enkulumeni kaMongameli, wathi kunezigidigidi ezintathu zamaRandi eziqondene nezinhlangano zomsebenzi. Simzwile uNdunankulu wesifundazwe umnumzane uNdebele ethi kunemali ehlelelwe ukuthi abantu besifazane bakwazi ukuzithuthukisa. Ngakho-ke asingabambezeli thina besifazane. Akube yithi esisukumayo inqobo uma sizosebenza ngokubambisana. UMongameli wathi vuka uzenzele; uNdunankulu uthe asisukume sakhe. Isinamuva likholwa yizagila.

USomqulu weNkululeko uyaqhubeka uthi abantu abadala, izintandane, abakhubazekile kanye nabagulayo uhulumeni uyobanakekela. Mnumzane u-Watson uhulumeni ukhipha izimali zesondlo abuye aholele abantu abadala izimpesheni. Nokho-ke okubuhlungu kakhulu ukuthi kunongqeqe babantu besifazane babelungu abamhlophe impela abahlupha abantu baseJabulani arts and culture ngokuthi babenzele imisebenzi bese bebakhokhisa imali yokuhlala kuleya ndawo. Sithole ukuthi abantu aabhola imali yempesheni ngoba bekhubazekile bakhokha ama-R555 wokuthi bahla kuleya ndawo. Nokho-ke naphezu kwalokho siyafisa ukubonga umnyango wezenhlalakahle walapha KwaZulu- Natali oholwa yinkoso uNgubane okwathi mangabe umhlonishwa uGamede exhumana nalowo mnyango, umnyango wathi uzothatha isinqumo sokuthi ukhokhele laba bantu imali yokuhlala kuleya ndawo bese iba ngeyabo indawo bazisebenzele. Akusho ukuthi ngoba bakhubazekile bakhubazeke nasengqondweni. [Ihlombe.] Imisebenzi yabo abayenzayo ikhombisile-ke ukuthi izingqondo zabo kanye nezandla zabo ziyasebenza, bengakhubazeka lapha nalaphaya. [Ihlombe.] Sihlalo, ngiyafisa ukusho ukuthi kumhlonishwa uMongameli kanye noNdunankulu bangabashayeli benkululeko yabantu baseNingizimu Afrika. Kuzokwenzeka izikhashana nezikhashana kube khona abantu abakhuluma ngale ngaphandle, kodwa kufanele nazi ukuthi imoto ehambayo ikhonkothwa yizinja emile ziyayichamela. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[There is a law that has been made by the government that says no children will be chased away from school if they did not have school fees. However, it must be the parents who report to teachers whether they have the means to pay the school fees or not, so that they could make arrangements for those children to go to school free. I wish that working parents would pay for their children and not reprimand the government because it gives free education to those children who cannot afford to pay, but they take chances and do not pay school fees. The government cares more for the poor and those who are not working. [Applause.] What is sad is that when the Constitution was agreed on, there were parties that opposed this. I wish Mr Watson would check whether it is the DA, which was one of those parties that opposed this legislation. [Applause.]

We thank the minister of education, Ina Cronjé, for emphasising that the teachers must work together with parents. We thank the Minister for emphasising that classes and a library will be built at each of those schools that the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces visited. However, I wish to say there are still schools like Ndesheni that were violently vandalised. I request that they must also be the first ones to be renovated quickly. [Applause.]

The Freedom Charter further states that mineworkers, domestic workers and farmworkers have the same rights as other people. When this legislation was made by Parliament, the DA was the one that proposed the draft, but today Mr Watson will say we have to work together with the DA. How are we going to work with these people who oppose the laws that protect the rights of the needy? I wish to say that today these workers are able to claim UIF when they leave their place of employment. We hope that the farmers have stopped giving alcohol to employees to get them drunk and to think that their salaries went missing, while they were not even paid a cent of their salaries. [Applause.]

We thank the farmer who played a major role when the President made the call in 1996 for businessmen to work hand in hand with the government to better the lives of people, and he participated. There is a proverb that says if you educate the women, you educated the whole nation. Today Parliament is here in KwaZulu-Natal. The first person who started to use this programme was a woman. [Applause.] This clearly shows that if you educate women, you educate the whole nation. That is why we are here, hon President.

We have found that there is a farm, run by women, which is the first to keep fish. I think the hon Ndabandaba feels threatened that women will acquire power, who might then ask men also to own fish farms. [Applause.] Just because the ANC is not jealous, it will train and help those who are willing.

As women, we need to pull up our socks to create business opportunities, because the government has given us money. You may remember that in his speech, the President said there were R3 billion for the creation of business opportunities. We heard the Premier of the province, Mr Ndebele, say that there is money for the development of women. Therefore we as women must not drag our feet. We must be the ones who take a step forward, as long as we work together.

The President said we must wake up and work, the Premier said we must stand up and build. Procrastination is the thief of time. The Freedom Charter furthermore says that the government will look after the aged, orphans, the physically challenged and sick people. Mr Watson, the government gives grants and pays the aged their pensions. However, it is sad that there are clever Western women who cause people trouble at the Jabulani Arts and Culture Centre by requiring them to perform certain duties and charging them for accommodation. We have found that people who get the disability grant pay R555 for accommodation. Over and above that we wish to thank the department of social welfare in KwaZulu Natal, which is led by Minister Ngubane, for - when the hon Gamede communicated with the department - agreeing to pay the accommodation of those people so that they could own the place and work on their own. To be disabled does not mean that they are disabled in their minds. [Applause.] They may be disabled here and there, but the work they do show that their minds and hands work. [Applause.] Chairperson, I wish to say that the hon President and the Premier are the leaders of peace in South Africa. It will happen that from time to time people talk outside, but dogs always chase a moving car and urinate against a stationary car. [Applause.]]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Siyabonga. [Thank you.] I think it is lunchtime. [Interjections.]

Sesilambile. Kusho ukuthi akufanele ukuthi ngithathe isikhathi eside. [We are hungry. I am expected not to be too long.]

But I want to say, I am very glad, Chairperson, that we started with the Deputy Chairperson and that the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP said what he did. Indeed the reason why we are meeting and the reason why we have this council of provinces, the reason why we elect people to local government and national government, to the provinces, is that we elect them so that they should attend to the things that the Deputy Chairperson was talking about. Those were the things that our people were talking about, whether it is better schools or employment or water or sanitation, that is the reason why we have been elected. Indeed all of our discussions here must respond to this question: Are we responding as well as we should to all these challenges that face our people?

I was very glad to hear the Rev Adolph from the ID. I agree with him that indeed we need to act together to confront these challenges. Rev Adolph, I owe your party leader, the hon Patricia de Lille, a meeting. Tell her that I haven’t forgotten about it. [Laughter.] That arose from when were discussing the state of the nation address and she said that the IDs would be watching and assessing the implementation of the undertakings that the government had made. When I responded, I said that it was fine. I think it is something called oversight. I said that oversight was fine. I’d hoped that the hon Patricia de Lille would also participate in making sure that we achieve the challenges because if we fail, which we will not, then it will be all of us who fail; then it won’t be people from particular parties or people who serve in particular areas of government.

I very much agree with the Rev Adolph when he says that we must act together and see what we can do in order to produce the results that all of us want. I see that the hon Firoz Cachalia from Gauteng supported the Western Cape. I don’t know if the Premier of the Western Cape knows Firoz Cachalia, and whether he knew what he was going to say when he was stopped. But he said that he supported you in any case about what you were going to say. [Laughter.]

The Premier of the Western Cape raised an important point about the role and the tasks and the place of provincial government. Unfortunately, he started with a long introduction, as a result of which he ran out of time before he got to the real thing that he wanted to say. But I have his speech because I will want to have a look at that report and the points that were raised about the place and the role of provincial government. It is indeed a matter that we need to reflect upon.

It is always an inspiration to listen to members of the NCOP and listen to the Premiers. When I meet the Premiers in other contexts, they are normally very nervous. [Laughter.]

But I never get this opportunity, Chairperson, to hear what has been done. I think that the work that is done by our Premiers is actually very good. [Applause.] The reports that they gave here on what is done in the Northern Cape, the Eastern Cape, Limpopo or in Mpumalanga, if we didn’t come to these meetings, we would never have been able to find out that in fact our Premiers are actually working. One sees them on television cutting ribbons and so on, but they do actually work. I think that is very inspiring and I am glad that our people are also getting a sense of what is happening. We might be in our localities and feel that there is a problem there; there is no movement and nothing has changed. One begins to think that nothing is moving. Here you can see that even when nothing has happened, at least I know that if this electricity is not there yet, it does not mean that it is not going to be there tomorrow. It is coming, whether it is water or electricity or sanitation. I am very glad that we’ve had this opportunity to speak as we have done in the presence of the people.

I hope, hon Mzizi, that with regard to some of the things that you saw, it would be possible to pass the specific information onto the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal. I think the stories that you told were quite disturbing and we need to consider them. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Mr President. I also want to thank the delegation of the House of Traditional Leaders who has been with us since Wednesday. My biggest thanks go to the government of KwaZulu-Natal. Enkosi, Premier S’bu Ndebele. [Applause.] The government of KwaZulu-Natal has been so kind to us that they participated in this programme throughout the week, without fail. I would also like to thank the Speaker of KwaZulu- Natal for the commitment that we have come to know about KwaZulu-Natal and the provincial legislature in the NCOP. But what was interesting, Mr President, is that all members of the legislatures, most of them, participated with us throughout the week. Provinces have been sending them in delegations to be part of this people’s parliament, which is a lesson to all of us. The public has been so nice.

Siyawubonga umphakathi waseMpangeni. [Ihlombe.] Iqhaza lenu lisifundisile ukuthi zikhona izinto ezibalulekile esizenzile emphakathi, futhi zikhona esingakafiki kuzo. Sinethemba nanjengoba uMongameli eseshilo ukuthi nangakuwe kuyoze kufike. [Ihlombe.] Sibonge ezimeyeni nakumakhansela ethu ukuthi umsebenzi esibe nawo KwaZulu-Natali ube ngomkhulu kakhulu. Sibonga nakubona ukuthi babambe iqhaza kulo msebenzi wokubambisana ukuze sibone izimpilo zabantu bakithi ziphucukile futhi zingcono, njengoba savumelana ngomhlaka-18 Ephreli 2004. [Ihlombe.]

Ngicela-ke kumphakathi wonke ukuthi uma sesiqedile siphume ngale ndlela elandelayo: ithimba likaMongameli lizophuma kuqala, lilandelwe yiSilo bese kuza amalungu ePhalamende alapha phansi. Sithi-ke lapho phezulu (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Thank you, Empangeni community. [Applause.] The role you played taught us that we have done important things in the community and that there are those we have not reached yet. We hope, as the government said, it would also reach you. [Applause.] Thank you to the mayors and councillors that we had the most work in KwaZulu-Natal. We also thank them for their participation and working together so that we can see the lives of our people becoming civilised and better, as we agreed on 18 April 2004. [Applause.]

I request the whole Chamber, when we have finished, to go out in the following order: The presidential delegation will go first, followed by His Majesty and members of Parliament on the ground level and those in the gallery.]

Let us afford the leadership the respect of the House, so that we all move . . .

. . . ngenhlonipho ukuze singanyathelani sonke sesifuna ukubona uMongameli. Ngiyazi ukuthi wonke umuntu ufuna ukubamba isandla sikaMongameli. UMongameli yindoda eqotho kakhulu futhi ethandwa yiwona wonke umuntu. Bacishe bamthatha laphaya ngaphandle kodwa sakwazi ukumvikela. Mangithi kumalungu oMkhandlu kaZwelonke weziFundazwe … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[. . . with respect so that we will not bump into one another in our desire to see the Minister. I know that everybody wants to shake the Minister’s hand. The Minister is a sincere man and is liked by everyone. They wanted to hug him outside, but we were able to prevent that. May I say this to the members of the National Council of Provinces . . .]

thank you very much, colleagues. The buses will leave for the airport soon. Thank you.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 13:31.