National Assembly - 07 June 2005
TUESDAY, 7 JUNE 2005 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:03.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NOTICE OF MOTION
Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Madam Speaker, I shall move that the House debates the role of human rights and equality before the law as mechanisms to facilitate the realisation of human potential, promotion of community and nation-building, as well as affirming all sectors that have been marginalised in law and protection rights in the past.
JOINT SITTING TO BID FAREWELL TO RETIRED CHIEF JUSTICE ARTHUR CHASKALSON
(Draft Resolution) UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEQELA ELIKWISININZI: Somlomo, ndiphakamisa ngaphandle kwesaziso ukuba le Ndlu –
(1) iqaphele ukuba uMongameli weli lizwe uthe, ngokoMgaqo-siseko nangokweMithetho yale Ndlu, wabiza iNdibano eyiNtlanganisela yeziNdlu ezimbini zePalamente ngoLwesihlanu, umhla we-10 kuJuni ka-2005, ngentsimbi ye-11:00, ukwenzela ukuthi ndlela-ntle kuJaji Arthur Chaskalson obephethe iNkundla yoMgaqo-siseko nokwamkela iinkokeli ezintsha zale nkundla;
(2) ikhumbule ukuba ngomhla we-11 kuFebhuwari ka-2005 uMongameli wathi xa wayethetha kule Ndlu wacela ukuba le Ndlu idale ithuba lokuba kuthiwe ndlela-ntle kweli qhawe uJaji Chaskalson; kwanokuba
(3) igqibe ekubeni, ngemvumelwano neBhunga leSizwe laMaphondo, ukuba kumenywe iJaji le imenywe ukuba ize kuthabatha inxaxheba kule Ndibano eyiNtlanganisela yeZindlu zePalamente ngomhla we-10 kuJuni ka-2005. (Translation of Xhosa draft resolution follows.)
[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that the President of the Republic of South Africa has in terms of the Constitution and the Rules called a Joint Sitting of the two Houses on Friday, 10 June 2005 at 11:00 to bid farewell to the hon Mr Justice Arthur Chaskalson, the outgoing Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa, and to welcome the incoming leadership of the Judiciary;
(2) recalls the wish expressed by the President in his State of the Nation address delivered on 11 February 2005 for Parliament to create an opportunity to bid farewell to Judge Chaskalson; and
(3) resolves, subject to the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, to invite the retired Chief Justice to attend and participate in the Joint Sitting of the Houses on 10 June 2005.]
USOMLOMO: Chief Whip [Mbhexeshi oyiNtloko], mandithi “owayesakuba yiJaji eyiNtloko”. [The SPEAKER: Chief Whip, let me correct you. It’s “former Chief Justice”.]
Agreed to.
CHURCH FOR THE DEAF
(Member’s Statement)
Mr K O BAPELA (ANC): Madam Speaker, this past Sunday we paid a visit to a church – not a normal church, but a special church. It is called the Bible Baptist Church for the Deaf. Our visit to the church was part of the ANC parliamentary programme to reach out to people, to expand the ANC social base in society, and to take parliamentarians or public representatives to the people.
On arrival, we were received by Pastor Chris Rautenbach, the founder of the church. According to him, this is the only church for deaf people in the country, and he hopes it will also grow to be a national one. Members of the church’s congregation come from the Gauteng areas of Tembisa, Phomalong, Kempton Park, Alexandra, Johannesburg, Boksburg, Daveyton and Soweto, as well as from the North West province.
We all enjoyed and marvelled at the sermon, which was done in sign language. The singing by the congregation was also in sign language. The choir also entertained us, and all the activities were done in sign language, as the congregation is deaf. Fortunately, Father Chris is a hearing person, whose wife is a deaf person, and was able to interpret for us. After the sermon we spent time listening to the sad stories of how deaf and dumb people are discriminated against in society. The stories were about a lack of access to further education – in that after being accepted at a tertiary level, they are told that they have to get their own interpreters, which costs R8 000 a month. Or, when going to government offices to access our services, there is no one who can do sign language in the government offices.
We therefore call on the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons to present reports on the successes and challenges faced by these vulnerable groups in society in order to ensure that our constitutional obligations of equality for all in society are realised. I thank you. [Applause.]
ANC ALLIANCE PARTNERS’ SUPPORT FOR JACOB ZUMA
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs S M CAMERER (DA): Madam Speaker, in response to the guilty verdict in the Shaik trial, the ANC correctly noted that as a young democracy we need to resist all efforts from whatever quarter to circumvent the due process of law or undermine the spirit and letter of the Constitution. It is unfortunate that the ANC’s alliance partners have ignored the ANC’s plea. In an extraordinary act of political thuggery, the ANC Youth League showed no respect for the rule of law, launching racist attacks on Judge Squires as an old, apartheid, Rhodesian minister, and accusing him of issuing a political verdict that was wrong and baseless. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order, hon members!
Mrs S M CAMERER: Likewise, the Young Communist League, which accused Squires of being a cynical, mad person; ditto Cosatu, which dismissed the judgment as nothing but a political trial in absentia.
We are appalled at the methods used by the ANC’s alliance partners, who continue to support Deputy President Zuma no matter how much embarrassment he causes the ANC in South Africa. We trust that respect for constitutional democracy and the rule of law will ultimately prove more important to the ANC than keeping the radical elements in the alliance happy. Thank you.
IFP’S SUPPORT FOR RECOMMENDATIONS OF COMMISSION FOR AFRICA, AND FOR DR KAUNDA AS AU ENVOY
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M B SKOSANA (IFP): Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a two-part statement.
The IFP supports the recommendations of the Commission for Africa on development aid to African countries, including debt relief of all debts owed to donor countries and international financial institutions.
In order to prevent the debt of the poor nations from becoming a permanent feature on the agenda of the rich nations, it is of cardinal importance that the efforts of the Commission for Africa are steered to complement the New Partnership for Africa’s Development. Parallel economic and development initiatives will only serve to revisit and reinforce the past imperial and colonial tendencies of economic and political domination of African colonies. For this reason, President Mbeki’s international forays to garner support for Africa are appreciated.
In the deep quest for peace, stability, co-operation and development in Africa, the African Union has honourably appointed the former President of Zambia, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, as the AU’s envoy to the African state of Togo. Dr Kaunda joins the past presidents of Botswana, Mozambique and South Africa. This is also in pursuit of the substantive and salient requirements contained in the 1991 Kampala document, seeking to reverse the predicament faced by the postcolonial nation state. The IFP supports this initiative. Thank you.
BENEFICIARIES OF THE EXPANDED PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAMME
(Member’s Statement)
Mr B A RADEBE (ANC): Madam Speaker, the Sowetan on Monday reads: “Hope at last for jobless”. It reads further: “Gelile Lukhele has finally found work at” … [Inaudible.] … “Luphusi road project in Westbridge”. Lukhele, a mother of three, is quoted as saying:
I was unemployed and could not support my children, but I was recently
given an opportunity to earn a living. If getting my clothes dirty and
my skin burnt by the sun means I will be able to put food on the table,
I’ll do it with pride.
Lukhele, Lindi Magagula and Grace Mashego are amongst many who are beneficiaries of the Expanded Public Works Programme. Equally, Joseph Masilo is quoted as saying:
I lost my eyesight but I still have my health to keep me alive. So I’ll make bread until I’m the best in the world. Opportunities like this show that we have a government that is willing to make a better life for poor people like me.
This affirms the vision of the Freedom Charter that states: “There shall be work and security.”
The committee will be visiting Mpumalanga, the Northern Cape and the North West next week to evaluate their conditions, and the integration and implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme at local municipality level where the challenge is prevalent. We commend the work that has been done by the department to date. Thank you.
COMPETITION COMMISSION TO LAUNCH PROBE INTO SOUTH AFRICA’S HIGH BANKING CHARGES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G T MADIKIZA (UDM): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The UDM welcomes the fact that the Competition Commission is to launch a probe into South Africa’s high bank charges.
For many years South African consumers have been receiving the short end of the stick. Last year this was confirmed by the Treasury and the Reserve Bank who found that South Africa had the highest banking charges in the world. This is simply ridiculous considering our status as a developing country. Some of the fees charged in South Africa are 150% higher than those charged in any other country.
South Africa’s banking sector is the only one in the world that makes more from charges than from interest. We are apparently the only country in the world that charges people to make deposits. What is apparent from all these statistics is that banking in South Africa does not follow the accepted banking business model, and instead has developed into an uncompetitive and exploitative form of business. To the extent that most of the banks are equally guilty, they would also appear to be guilty of collusion. We sincerely hope that the Competition Commission will show as little fear or favour in this case as it has shown in previous probes into various sectors.
The banks have had many opportunities to reform and, from their impressive annual financial statements, it is clear that they are in a position to reform. The time has come to put the consumer first, because it is only with a properly banked and serviced population that we can hope to extend our economic gains to all South Africans. I thank you.
SCHABIR SHAIK CASE AGAIN PUTS ARMS DEAL AT THE FOREFRONT
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A HARDING (ID): Thank you, Madam Speaker. The outcome of the court case against Mr Schabir Shaik has again put the arms deal at the forefront of the South African political agenda.
Patricia de Lille has taken a lot of abuse and public ridicule for blowing the whistle on the arms deal acquisition process. A lot of this abuse was state-generated, and we are not amused that so many opportunists in Parliament are now jumping on the bandwagon. In the ID we agree that the seriousness of this matter calls for reserve, balance and careful handling.
This is not a political issue. This is now a legal issue. The courts and the judiciary should be responsible for ensuring that justice is done. The Deputy President is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. South Africa is a constitutional democracy, and the rule of law forms an integral part of that dispensation. This case has such a high profile at the international level that it has done irreparable damage to our image. Perhaps a way forward to protect the country and our democracy would be for the Deputy President to temporarily step down until he has been afforded the opportunity to clear his name.
Patricia de Lille should be given an official apology by those who were at the forefront of this ferocious smear campaign waged against her. The ID is committed to bringing to the forefront any corruption between business and government. Thank you.
STILFONTEIN EARTHQUAKE
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr P J GROENEWALD (VF Plus): Agb Speaker, op 9 Maart 2005 het een van die grootste aardbewings in Suid-Afrika, wat 5,3 op die Richterskaal gemeet het, Stilfonteindorp getref. Wonderbaarlik was daar slegs ‘n lewensverlies van twee persone, maar verskeie geboue is vernietig of beskadig, waarvan die skade konserwatief bereken word op minstens R20 miljoen.
As gevolg van dié aardbewing het DRD Gold sy mynbedrywighede in die Noordwes gestaak, met die gevolg dat 6 513 werkers werkloos gelaat is. As die huisgesinne ook in berekening gebring word, is minstens 20 000 mense hierdeur in ellende gedompel.
Daar bestaan ‘n wanpersepsie dat indien ‘n aardbewing nie gepaard gaan met groot lewensverlies nie, is dit nie ‘n ramp nie. Die werklikheid is dat daar tans kospakkies aan minstens 1 200 inwoners uitgedeel moet word. Hierdie probleem het toegeneem in so ‘n mate dat die polisie verlede week ingeroep moes word om openbare orde te handhaaf by die uitdeel van die kospakkies. Die rede was omdat baie meer mense nou nie meer kos op die tafel het nie, en van dié kospakkies nodig het.
Die VF Plus het reeds op 19 April 2005 die President versoek om die proses aan die gang te sit om die Stilfonteingebied tot rampgebied te verklaar. Tot op hede is nog niks gedoen nie, en is daar geen staatshulp verleen aan mense wat honger ly nie. Daar word weer eens ‘n beroep op die kantoor van die President gedoen om daadwerklik in te gryp en die gebied tot rampgebied te verklaar en sodoende geld beskikbaar te stel om mense te voed. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD (FF Plus): Hon Speaker, on 9 March 2005 one of the biggest earthquakes in South Africa, measuring 5,3 on the Richter scale hit Stilfontein. Miraculously only two lives were lost, but various buildings were destroyed or damaged, of which the damages are conservatively estimated at at least R20 million.
As a consequence of this earthquake DRD Gold ceased its mining operations in the North West, with the result that 6 513 workers have been left jobless. If the families are also taken into consideration, then at least 20 000 people have been plunged into misery as a result of this.
A misconception exists that if an earthquake is not accompanied by massive loss of life, then it is not a disaster. The reality is that food parcels now have to be distributed to at least 1 200 residents.
This problem has increased to such an extent that the police were called in last week to maintain public order during the distribution of these food parcels. The reason was that many more people no longer have food on the table, and are in need of these food parcels.
The FF Plus requested the President as long ago as 19 April 2005 to start the process of having the Stilfontein area declared a disaster area. To date nothing has been done, and there is no government aid being given to people who go hungry. Once again an appeal is being made to the office of the President to intervene decisively and to declare the area a disaster area in order to make funds available to feed the people.]
ALLEGATIONS BY MEMBERS REGARDING PETROSA
(Member’s Statement)
Ms N F MATHIBELA (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC’s record of clean governance is without parallel among political parties in this country. [Laughter.] The hon Peter Smith and the hon Pieter Mulder are surely ignorant of political trends in this country. [Interjections.] Why else would Mr Smith allege that the ANC is attempting to cover up the PetroSA story when actually an ANC-dominated minerals and energy portfolio committee has decided to question PetroSA when it makes its annual appearance before the committee. [Interjections.]
That this allegation is made, among others, by an IFP member is in itself interesting. The IFP’s track record on matters of transparency and clean governance established during decades of its KwaZulu-Bantustan rule is, to be mild about it, laughable.
The hon Smith and hon Mulder would surely agree with us that it would not be proper if the minerals and energy portfolio committee’s agenda was to be determined on the basis of media reports.
The ANC-led committee has taken a decision that PetroSA will be questioned at a proper and relevant point in time, and this, indeed, is the correct approach. I thank you. [Applause.]
INVESTIGATION OF CHIPPIE SHAIK
(Member’s Statement)
Mr E W TRENT (DA): Madam Speaker, recent events throw into question the awarding of the Corvette contract, which formed part of the arms deal. Evidence in the Shaik trial brings into sharp focus the role of Schabir Shaik’s brother, Chippie. He was central in the whole arms deal. He managed it, he drove it, and he was privy to every bit of information, reaction, debate and response.
The JIT report found that, despite Chippie Shaik’s obvious conflict of interest, he did not properly recuse himself when the awarding of the contracts to Thomson and ADS were discussed. Chippie Shaik also acted irregularly when he changed the minutes of another meeting to reflect that a decision was taken to award a contract to BAE Saab. The contents of the decision reflected in these minutes were contested by former secretary of defence, Pierre Steyn.
Therefore, in the light of the judgment, and his highly improper conduct throughout the arms deal process, it is clear that the National Prosecuting Authority has no choice but to launch a criminal investigation into the role of Chippie Shaik. Clearly Schabir Shaik solicited a bribe from Thomson on behalf of the Deputy President in return for the Deputy President’s protection.
This is common cause, and this proves that they had something to hide; they had something to hide. What other conclusion can any of us possibly draw from what the judge found in that judgment? Thank you.
CONCERNS REGARDING HIV REGIMES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE (Azapo): Madam Speaker, Azapo notes that the HI virus was discovered by researchers in France in 1984 and was immediately seen as a breakthrough in the fight against a syndrome of infections affecting homosexual males, intravenous drug abusers and haemophiliacs.
Since then it has been largely accepted by many scientists that the HI virus causes Aids, and that the virus is transmitted by sexual contact or direct introduction of infected fluids into the bloodstream. Today millions of people throughout the world are either living with HIV, suffering from Aids, or dead. South Africa is reported to be amongst the worst affected.
Pharmaceutical companies offer regimes ranging from AZT, AZT plus 3TC, nevirapine and others. The nature of toxic material present in these drugs has been the subject for debate and numerous studies and trials have been conducted in some countries, notably Uganda, and are subject to controversy.
It has been noted that there have been irregularities in collecting the data and keeping the records during the trials to validate the use of nevirapine in Uganda. Although the US Food and Drug Administration did not approve nevirapine for Americans, American pharmaceutical companies recommended it to South Africans, and strongly objected when the government was cautious about its use in South Africa.
Even if nevirapine has side effects it does not matter to those pharmaceutical companies since, to them, we cannot afford better drugs. To them, African governments must just accept everything even if it kills our people. [Interjections.] Azapo rejects these attitudes. Our people deserve protection from pharmaceutical companies that are motivated by capitalist greed. I thank you. [Applause.]
CHILD PROTECTION WEEK
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs T J TSHIVHASE (ANC): Speaker, this is Child Protection Week. Your child is my child. Noting that the Minister launched Child Protection Month on Monday, 30 April 2005, the ANC joins the Minister and calls upon all communities to work closely with government and law-enforcement agencies in establishing a safer environment for our children, particularly the girl- child.
We support government in its fight for children’s rights in South Africa and the world at large. The Children’s Bill, which is still before the Portfolio Committee on Social Development, is one of many measures by the ANC government to raise awareness regarding the protection of children.
The registration of all eligible children under 14 years for the child support grant, and ensuring that orphans and other vulnerable children are given the necessary care and support, are concrete indications of the seriousness of the ANC-led government to protect children and create an environment that nurtures their development. I thank you.
INTIMATE FEMICIDE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms J A SEMPLE (DA): The DA is deeply concerned that the rate of murder of South African women by their intimate partners is the highest in the world. Hardly a week goes by without a front-page newspaper story detailing the killing of a South African woman by her intimate partner – a phenomenon known as intimate femicide.
Research by the MRC shows that one woman is killed by her partner every six hours. The DA is appalled by the fact that only slightly more than a third of the men who kill their wives or girlfriends are convicted of murder. Nearly 70% of perpetrators escape punishment because of lack of evidence.
We share the concern that our country’s high intimate femicide rate is an indictment of a deeply patriarchal society. Ineffective implementation of court protection orders and police apathy about domestic violence are also to blame. [Applause.]
ARREST OF SANDF COLONEL
(Member’s Statement)
Mr V B NDLOVU (IFP): Madam Speaker, a colonel of the SANDF who was stationed in Bloemfontein was arrested last week by Western Cape police for allegedly supplying hand grenades, firearms and ammunition to a Cape Flats gang. The weapons were taken from a strongroom at the Tempe army base in Bloemfontein in 1998 and 1999.
Gangsterism and gang warfare on the Cape Flats claim many lives every year, and many of those killed are innocent children. There has been an ongoing struggle for many years to try and rid the Cape Flats of gangs so that the residents can once again lead normal lives without the fear of being killed or terrorised by gansterism. It is therefore very disturbing and disgraceful that a member of the SANDF must have played a part in supporting the reign of terror in these gangs.
The police officials and all involved in the investigation and ultimately the arrest should be congratulated for their efforts. We hope that the maximum-allowed sentence is handed down to this army colonel if he is found guilty. We also urge the SANDF to ensure that they have adequate security and storage measures in place with regard to their weapons to prevent similar incidents from happening in future. I thank you.
ALLOWING DUE PROCESS IN CASE OF SCHABIR SHAIK
(Member’s Statement)
Dr M SEFULARO (ANC): Madam Speaker, the recent behaviour of the opposition in this House, following the conviction of Mr Schabir Shaik, has been unbecoming of parliamentarians. Their attacks on the person and office of the Deputy President are malicious and wrong.
The findings against the Deputy President were made without him being given an opportunity to give his side of the story. We must resist the temptation to turn Parliament into a kangaroo court.
Two major features of this trial are worth noting: Firstly, notwithstanding the fact that his name was repeatedly and prominently mentioned in the case, there was no interference from the Deputy President. Secondly, the ANC-led government allowed due process to run unhindered. This is unchallengeable proof of the ANC’s commitment to clean government and the rule of law.
The matter of Schabir Shaik is still before the courts of law; it can only be regarded as concluded once Mr Shaik has exhausted all constitutionally guaranteed options available to him. These options include appeals to the highest courts in the country. In this context we call on all South Africans, including political parties, to demonstrate respect for the rule of law, the fundamental principles of justice and the values that underpin our constitutional order.
We should not allow the pursuit of narrow party interests to undermine the right of the individual as enshrined in the Constitution, including the right to a fair hearing through the due process of law. I thank you. [Applause.]
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS – PUBLIC HEARINGS ON PACE OF LAND REFORM IN SOUTH AFRICA
Ms E NGALEKA: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers, hon members, ladies and gentlemen: “The land shall be shared amongst those who work it”. The Freedom Charter is a statement of aims. It is a definition of the goals of our liberation movement. It is the sum total of our national democratic aspirations and the democratic life that we all need. On the basis of the Freedom Charter are founded the cornerstones of our principles of freedom and democracy. In his biography, Let my people go, Chief Albert Luthuli said: The Freedom Charter attempts to give flesh and blood meaning in the South African setting, to such words as democracy, freedom and liberty. If the Charter is examined it will be seen that freedom means the opening up of the opportunity to all South Africans to live full and abundant lives in terms of country, community and individual.
It seemed fit for the ANC, after the first decade of freedom, to get a view from the people we in this House claim to represent as to how the democratic government has performed in terms of land delivery to them. We needed to know what the beneficiaries think of the mechanisms this government has chosen to use to assist in reaching the objective of bringing about equity in land ownership.
It is for this reason that our committee undertook public hearings on the pace of land reform from 18 to 20 October 2004. It became much more significant for us to debate this report on the pace of land reform during the year of the 50th anniversary of the Freedom Charter.
It came out strongly during the public hearings that the pace of land reform has been very slow. While we understand the frustrations of the people who have been waiting patiently to get back their land for the past 10 years, we want to appeal to them to take cognisance of the fact that the first five years of our democracy was about putting the legal framework and institutions of governance in place to lay a solid foundation for the implementation of land and agrarian reform. As a result, the pace of land delivery was slower in the beginning but, as we all could see, there was an improvement since 1999.
Inkezo Land Company, in its presentations, raised a lack of co-operation between the three spheres of government as a challenge. It has been our call and we will continue calling on all spheres of government to work together in addressing the needs of our communities. Local government as the sphere closest to the people must become more closely involved in land reform.
The SA Human Rights Commission supported and echoed the call from the many landless people that the pace of land reform was too slow. At the same time, the SA Human Rights Commission recognised, within a human rights framework, that there had been progressive realisation of the property rights contained in the Constitution that seek to redress the imbalances of the past.
The denial of access to land to the majority of the country’s people during apartheid was one of the greatest challenges that our young democracy faced. When one looks at statistics, it is true that the pace of land reform is not what we predicted it would be; though we need to commend the department for the commitment shown and hard work they are doing in restoring dignity to the beneficiaries.
As the ANC we want to make a call on communities, when viewing their options on restitution, to choose land because the value of money depreciates while land’s value appreciates.
Secondly, we want to change land ownership patterns in South Africa to reflect the South African community. In the report of the Commission on Restitution that we received today there was a worrying fact, which shows that for the financial year ended March 2005, R1 729 billion was spent on land acquisition while R2 454 billion was spent on financial compensation.
This is not land reform. We want land reform to reflect that people own land and that the land ownership patterns have changed in this country. Farm dwellers should not end up being evicted from farms due to restitution or land reform. More should be done to safeguard the needs of people working on farms.
Financial compensation as a form of redress should be discouraged for the following reasons. Firstly, it is attractive to the poor to address poverty- related needs, but it is short-term poverty-relief because it does not offer lasting solutions to poverty. Secondly, it does not contribute to resolving the problem of skewed ownership of land. Lastly, in many cases, financial compensation leads to family disputes and fraud.
The issue of determining just and equitable compensation in line with our Constitution is still a challenge in some cases, given the collusion between valuers, landowners and some of our commissioners.
On this point, we note the Mpumalanga case and commend the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs for the swift action taken in this case to implement measures to stop this evil from spreading to other parts of the country.
In terms of land tenure, it has been shown in public hearings that despite the Acts we pass to prevent eviction, farmworkers are still evicted and maltreated on the farms. It is important that improving living conditions of farmworkers become the cornerstone of our land reform. We cannot anymore allow a situation where the people who actually toil on the land to produce the food for us are maltreated. It is for these reasons that the committee recommended that the department tighten up all loopholes in relation to the Extension of Security of Tenure Act and the Land Reform (Labour Tenants) Act to ensure the security of tenure of the people who live in rural areas.
The ANC government once again demonstrated its commitment to land reform by increasing the budget by R6 billion, and I believe that this government is still committed to continuing to increase funding as and when it is needed because land ownership is close to our hearts.
During the public hearing, we had an opportunity to listen to the people and to share the experiences that they experience daily in their lives. Once again, we want to remind everyone that we all have a responsibility to ensure that wherever we are, whether we are in local, provincial or national government, we all have a responsibility to make sure we contribute. Even the public sector needs to contribute in making sure that we share the land because the Freedom Charter, as the guiding document, makes it clear that, “The land shall be shared amongst those who work it”. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A H NEL: Speaker, there is no doubt that land reform is a very emotional issue for all the stakeholders. Therefore, we as members of the portfolio committee and other decision-makers should tread lightly in this emotional minefield. We must also remember what land reform is about, namely that we all agree that the skewed distribution is the responsibility of us as a nation.
The responsibility can thus only be fulfilled by the government of the day through the various taxes it collects from us all. This view is shared by the Department of Land Affairs, which stated in the annual report that they derived their mandate “from section 25 of the Constitution which protects property rights, while placing an obligation on the government to implement land reform”.
Many of the organisations and also some members of the committee put the blame on the present landowners, as if they were personally guilty of all the atrocities and displacement of people in the past. If this is true, then the landowner is guilty because he abided by the laws of a government, which were legitimate in the eyes of the world. Then, in time, we will get another government that will make laws that forbid racial reference. Then, again, the landowner will be guilty because it states on his title deed: Maans Nel, owner of land; race: white. So who are the real culprits? It is the political parties that when they are elected, form governments and put their policies into law.
Now this committee recommends that the Office of the Registrar of Deeds should register land in terms of race. This government, by mouth of the Minister, gave notice that she would give effect to this recommendation. It is almost unbelievable that an ANC government that fought against racism all its life, that reminded us every day that it is a nonracist and nonsexist party, and whose founding document, the Freedom Charter, states that the rights of the people shall be the same regardless of race, colour or sex, could use race as a determining factor. How is it possible?
I voted for a government that used race as a yardstick for almost everything. I’ve seen what this has done to people. I will never again in my life support any measure that will bring back a system of racial classification.
Die Minister het ’n komitee aangestel om buitelandse grondbesit in Suid- Afrika te ondersoek. Nog voordat die komitee behoorlik sy werk begin het, kom doen die Portefeuljekomitee oor Landbou en Grondsake die aanbeveling dat die regering ’n moratorium op enige verkope aan buitelanders moet plaas. Om nou die meriete van die saak te bespreek of om ‘n moratorium te vra voordat die komitee sy verslag uitgebring het, lyk vir my voortydig. Die voorstel van die komitee laat dit egter lyk asof die ANC lankal besluit het om verkope van grond aan buitelanders te staak.
Baie van die meer linkse organisasies het voorstelle gedoen soos dat die hoeveelheid grond wat besit mag word, beperk word; dat progressiewe grondbelasting ingestel moet word; en dat in die algemeen ‘n minder markgerigte proses gevolg moet word met grondhervorming. Hierdie sentimente is ook later by ander geleenthede deur sekere komiteelede asook amptenare van die departement geopper. Hierdie links-sosialistiese denke kom van ‘n party wat aan ‘n markgerigte ekonomiese stelsel glo en in hulle besprekingsdokument voorstelle doen wat verder in hierdie rigting gaan.
Ek wil vir u ook dieselfde vraag vra wat die President nou die dag aan die DA gevra het, naamlik of ons dan nie wil hê dat swartes ook miljoenêrs moet word nie. Ons antwoord is ja; hoe meer markgerig u beleid word, hoe meer u DA-beleid toepas, hoe meer sal daar wees. Ons het ook nie ‘n probleem daarmee dat swartmense gehelp word nie. Ons het wel ‘n probleem daarmee dat net dieselfde mense oor en oor gehelp word. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Nou vra ek vir die lede van die komitee en vir die Minister van Landbou en Grondsake, as ‘n swart persoon of enigiemand die vermoë het en hard werk, hoekom moet hy in die landbou beperk word en nie in staat gestel word om ‘n landboumiljoenêr te word nie?
Ons het reeds in die komitee aangedui dat die DA hierdie verslag sal teenstaan, eerstens weens die eensydige opsomming van die aanbevelings aan die komitee; tweedens omdat die komitee ‘n moratorium aanbeveel op die koop van grond deur buitelanders nog vóórdat die komitee wat dit ondersoek, verslag gedoen het; en derdens omdat die komitee aanbeveel dat ras aangedui moet word by die registrasie van titelaktes. Dit is totaal onaanvaarbaar. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The Minister has appointed a committee to examine foreign land ownership in South Africa. Even before the committee could properly start with its work, the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs came with the recommendation that the government should place a moratorium on any sales to foreigners. To discuss the merits of the matter now or to request a moratorium before the committee has published a report, seems premature to me. The proposal of the committee, however, makes it seem as if the ANC decided long ago to stop the sale of land to foreigners.
Many of the more leftist organisations made proposals such as that the quantity of land that may be owned be limited; that a progressive land-tax must be established; and that in general a less market-oriented process should be followed with land reform. Certain committee members as well as officials of the department also later voiced these sentiments on other occasions. This leftist-socialistic thinking comes from a party that believes in a market-oriented economic system and that makes proposals in its discussion document that move further in this direction.
I want to put the same question to you as the President put to the DA the other day, namely whether we do not want blacks to become millionaires too. Our answer is yes; the more market-oriented your policy becomes, the more you put DA policy into practice, the more there will be. We also do not have a problem with black people being helped either. We do have a problem with only the same people being helped over and over again. [Interjections.]
Now I want to ask the members of the committee and the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, if a black person or anyone has the ability and works hard, why must he be limited in agriculture and not be enabled to become an agricultural millionaire?
We have already indicated in the committee that the DA will oppose this report, firstly because of the one-sided summary of the recommendations to the committee, secondly because the committee recommends a moratorium on foreigners buying land even before the committee that is investigating it has reported on it; and thirdly because the committee recommends that race must be indicated upon the registration of title deeds. This is totally unacceptable. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]
Mr M V NGEMA: Madam Speaker, government’s land reform programme, which consists of redistribution, restitution and tenure reform, is at the heart of its land policy. In recent times, the success or lack thereof of this programme has come under the spotlight, especially when it became obvious that the goal of 30% redistribution of agricultural land would not be reached in the set timeframe.
The portfolio committee conducted public hearings on the pace of land reform in South Africa from 18 to 20 October last year. An indication of the importance of this issue and the many people that it affects could be witnessed by the number of submissions that were received from a diverse spectrum of people and organisations. A total of 61 written submissions were received from various stakeholders, 34 of whom appeared before the portfolio committee for oral presentations.
The IFP encourages the Minister to take the opportunity presented by this report to drive home to the entire government the point that the land reform programme cannot be allowed to take a back seat in terms of the priorities of government. The land issue is not only a sensitive matter, but also has the potential to become the number one problem undermining our democracy.
The marches and the protests that we are seeing are strong indicators of the seriousness with which this matter should be viewed. As a proactive move the government must come to the point at which it views the R6 billion, allocated to complete the land restitution programme this financial year, as the first significant investment in land reform towards achieving the estimated budget of R30 billion in 10 years, as suggested by the Agricultural Business Consultancy in its submission.
The portfolio committee is lending its support to the Minister by highlighting this important matter for Parliament. Throwing the lack of funds at this challenge will not make it go away. Strategic planning on this matter, accompanied by a significant budget and by efficient and effective delivery of the plans will go a long way towards achieving the common understanding that we all need if we are to settle the land question in this country beyond doubt. I thank you.
Mr J BICI: Madam Speaker, during the course of the public hearings we were reminded of how complicated the issues relating to land reform are, and especially how confusing it is for the intended beneficiaries and affected stakeholders. The committee was engaged by a wide variety of stakeholders, all of whom demonstrated an intense interest in land reform. It is apparent that land remains one of the most emotional topics in our country. The committee received many valuable suggestions for improving the slow pace of land reform; and we have, therefore, been in a position to make a comprehensive list of recommendations. Amongst these are improved information and training for law enforcement agencies, a bigger land reform budget and greater integration of land reform across all spheres of government.
Finally, the UDM urges the Minister to consider these recommendations as a package that, if applied in unison, will improve the pace of land reform. What is abundantly clear is that no single one measure alone will improve matters. A supple and integrated approach is required to ensure that we continue to manage this sensitive issue with the least amount of conflict and dissent, whilst improving the pace of delivery. I thank you.
Mr L W GREYLING: Madam Speaker, it goes without saying that land is an extremely emotive issue in South Africa. As a party that is committed to bridging the divides in our country, the ID maintains that addressing the inherited land inequalities in South Africa is crucial to creating a stable and prosperous nation. Unfortunately the pace of land reform has been far too slow, and we need to find ways of improving it to address the very real concerns of our people. In doing this, we also need to recognise the changes that our agricultural sector has undergone over the last 10 years. We have moved from a highly protected and subsidised agricultural sector to one of the least protected in the world, which in the face of huge agricultural subsidies in the North has made farming a very risky profession.
The ID believes that greater priority must be given to agriculture in South Africa, and that more financial and technical resources must be directed at it. This is particularly the case regarding small-scale agriculture , which, if nothing else, could be a very effective poverty alleviation strategy, and provide a sustainable livelihood for many rural people who are enduring grinding poverty. There are many constraints in the current land reform approach adopted by the state, which will make it difficult to reach the 30% target by 2015.
The ID would argue that we need a more proactive strategy towards land reform, which is not just driven by market supply, but by a systematic assessment of all land needs in a particular area. In doing this we need to build trust between all the different stakeholders so that the optimum solution, not just for individuals, but for society as a whole, is obtained.
There are successful examples where previous landowners have assisted land reform beneficiaries in turning the land into productive farming units. We need to learn from these examples and, wherever possible, replicate them. The ultimate challenge for land reform is not only to transfer land, but to ensure that the land generates welfare for the beneficiaries and society as a whole. To do this, the level of post-settlement support needs to be drastically improved.
The Freedom Charter says: “The state shall help peasants with implements, seed, tractors and dams to save the soil and assist the tillers.” I know of many rural communities that don’t receive a fraction of that support, and it is time for us to prioritise their needs. Only with the right political will, financial resources and partnerships built on trust can we hope to turn what is potentially a divisive issue into a source of strength for our country. I thank you.
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, today Africa is faced with many challenges, especially those relating to land ownership and restitution. The principle of restitution is a biblical principle. It is interesting to note that in ancient Israel the people could not be legally alienated from their land for longer than 49 years.
All people who lost their land due to hardship or debt, or for any other reason, would regain their land legally during the jubilee year. In other words, every 50 years the land was handed back to its original owners.
Our country is faced with the challenge of land restitution, and we also face the issue of limited government funds. Of course land restitution must occur. The issue is the way in which we are going to do it. We, unlike ancient Israel, do not have these laws that says that after 50 years the land must go back to the original owners. We have other laws. What we need for the healing of this nation is to reconstruct the idea of loss and translate it into one of shared wealth for the prosperity of all people.
In May this year we witnessed a landmark judgment on upholding property rights in South Africa, which sent a very clear message that farm invasions will not be tolerated. The Modderklip Farm case judgment, given in the Constitutional Court, strikes a balance between the rights of the owners of Modderklip Farm and thousands of people without houses.
The Deputy Chief Justice at the time, Pius Langa, said: Land invasions of this scale threaten far more than the private rights of a single owner and have the capacity to be socially inflammatory and the potential to have serious implications for stability and public peace.
Finally, government has a legal duty to protect the property of owners as it sought to do in the Modderklip matter. It must not evade this responsibility. However, government also has an equal responsibility to the landless people of this nation. I thank you.
Dr E A SCHOEMAN: Madam Speaker, colleagues, comrades, the debate on the issue of the necessity and pace of land reform is of national importance and it is imperative that a broad consensus regarding this goal be reached. The time for backtracking and the scoring of cheap political points has passed.
Accordingly, it is hardly surprising that virtually all the submissions, oral and written, expressed varying degrees of concern about the slow progress. From these submissions, it became evident that what the land was needed for varied, namely land for housing or dwellings, land for subsistence farming - small gardens, a few animals on identified communal land - small semicommercial units and fully fledged commercial units. It also became evident that although these needs were identified, there was an inability to quantify them. In part, this fact does create difficulty for government to address these needs proactively; this also complicated the budgeting process.
Despite the disputed necessity for more equitable land ownership, the impression was that many of the submitters expressed unrealistic expectations regarding the purported advantages of land acquisition. Land remains a finite resource and only a limited number of people will be able to make a living from it in a sustainable way. The many settlement projects for emerging farmers that have failed, bear testimony to this.
The lack of administrative capacity both in the Department of Land Affairs and the Department of Agriculture has aggravated the situation.
Despite these constraints, the performance of the Department of Land Affairs in finalising the restitution process by 2008, deserves commendation. The fact that the Department of Land Affairs is a national competency, while the Department of Agriculture is predominantly a provincial competency, further complicates the issue. If this fact proves to be a significant factor in retarding the pace and effectiveness of land reform, a re-assessment is justified. Indications are that agricultural extension services in most provinces lack capacity and motivation. There should also be a focus on long-term solutions in preference to a short-term approach. The personnel shortages and capacity within the department should also be addressed as a matter of urgency, if government intends to keep pace with the demands of the communities.
The overall goal should always be the maximum utilisation of the agricultural potential of South Africa, on a sustainable basis. Accordingly, the agricultural wealth of South Africa must be shared in a just and equitable manner by those who have the need to become active participants in agriculture.
To achieve this goal within a realistic and acceptable timeframe, both the public and private sectors have vital roles to play. In this regard, neither of these two role-players dare shift their obligations to the other.
Besides the problems within government, which have been identified, the biggest constraint is a financial one. If land reform is conducted according to strict legalistic and constitutional principles, incredible fiscal demands will have to be met. We acknowledge the fact that the budget increases of R6 billion in the next three years have been allocated. The advisability of creating a fund, specifically earmarked for land reform in South Africa, with an international basis, should be seriously considered. We are aware that the Belgian government has contributed R53 million for post-settlement support, and we appreciate that. The effects of an unstructured and ill-considered land reform programme should be obvious to all. We are also aware of the effect of the LRAD, CASP and Mafisa programmes on the departments, and we appreciate their contribution to post- settlement support.
Conversely, as mentioned, the active involvement and participation of the private sector in the process of land reform is crucial. Despite many active and structured mentorship programmes by commercial farmers, this programme can be vastly improved. The involvement of previous landowners is, at times, still regarded with suspicion. A well-structured, transparent programme is essential. Each district should have an active land reform committee consisting of representatives from the commercial farming sector, local and provincial authority, new farmers and prospective new farmers. These committees could identify actual needs, prospective beneficiaries and suitable land.
The active involvement of farmworkers within the farming enterprise is also essential in providing security of tenure for farm dwellers. Different models of participation, such as share equity schemes, the provision of land for their needs, etc, are all models, which can be developed. Different models to suit specific enterprises and for different climatic regions, should be available. This is a challenge for commercial agriculture, which may not fail.
It is also of concern that labour legislation pertaining to agriculture is, in some cases, applied in a punitive way, thus disturbing relations. The minimum wage should not become the maximum wage and the practice of charging exorbitant rentals for basic dwellings and services is unacceptable.
The challenge of land reform, our approach thereto and the way it is executed are essential determinants of our future. The quest for land or territory can either be divisive or act as a unifying force in the process of nation-building. Many wars have been fought over land, leaving scars that take centuries to heal. The issue is complex and will require the wisdom of Solomon to resolve, but the choice is simple: we unify and become a winning nation, or we perpetuate the divisions and inequities of the past, and lose. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Geagte Speaker, almal stem saam dat ’n gesprek oor grondhervorming ’n uiters sensitiewe en emosionele saak is. As grondhervorming ter sprake is, word daar ook altyd verwys na die Zimbabwe- situasie. Die ironie van Zimbabwe is dat 4 000 blanke, kommersiële boere verminder is na 500. Die land is nou in ’n krisis. Hulle beleef hongersnood, en nou vra hulle dieselfde blanke boere om weer terug te kom om te kom help.
Die emosie ten opsigte van die grondkwessie spruit uiteraard uit die raskwessie wat daaraan gekoppel word. Dit gaan nie oor die meriete van boerdery nie. Dit gaan nie oor of ’n boer bevoeg of kundig is om deur landbou die volk te voed nie. Die emosies word opgejaag deur grondbesit te koppel aan ras, en dit is die groot probleem ten opsigte van grondhervorming.
Die VF Plus is van mening dat indien die raskwessie uit grondbesit geneem word, en as grondbesit gekoppel word aan die vermoë van die grondbesitter om produktief en kundig te kan produseer, ongeag ras, sal die grondkwessie opgelos kan word.
Die verslag onder bespreking is duidelik ’n verslag behep met ras. By registrasie van titelaktes moet ras nou aangedui word. In plaas daarvan dat hierdie verslag gekonsentreer het op die werklike probleem van grondhervorming, naamlik die administrasie wat daarmee gepaard gaan - wat eintlik maar ’n frustrasie is - kon dit ’n bydrae gelewer het om die proses van grondhervorming op te los, maar dit is ’n administratiewe probleem wat ontstaan as gevolg van onbevoegde en onkundige amptenare wat nie weet hoe om die proses te bestuur en te hanteer nie. Dit veroorsaak dat daar probleme ontstaan en dan word daar geskuil agter die raskwessie en boere wat kwansuis nie hulle grond wil beskikbaar stel nie.
Hierdie verslag dra net by om emosies te verhoog oor grond en lewer nie ’n bydrae om oplossings te vind nie, en daarom sal die VF Plus dit nie steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Speaker, everyone agrees that a discussion about land reform is a very sensitive and emotional matter. When land reform is being discussed reference is also always made to the Zimbabwean situation. The irony of Zimbabwe is that 4 000 white commercial farmers have been reduced to 500. The country is now in a crisis. They are experiencing famine, and now they are asking the same white farmers to come back and help.
The emotion in respect of the land question inevitably stems from the question of race which is connected to it. The merits of farming are not at issue. It does not matter whether a farmer is skilled or capable of feeding the nation by means of agriculture. Emotions are being stirred up by the fact that land ownership is connected to race, and that is the great big problem in respect of land reform.
The FF Plus is of the opinion that if the question of race is removed from land ownership, and if land ownership is connected to the ability of the landowner to produce in a productive and skilled manner, regardless of race, the land question will be able to be resolved.
The report under discussion is clearly a report obsessed with race. When title deeds are registered race must now be indicated. Instead of concentrating on the actual problem of land reform, namely the administration attached to it – which is nothing more than a frustration – this report could have made a contribution towards solving the process of land reform, but it is an administrative problem that occurs as a result of incapable and unskilled officials who do not know how to manage and handle the process. This causes problems to occur, and then people hide behind the race issue and farmers who ostensibly do not want to make their land available.
This report merely contributes to heightening emotions and does not make a contribution to finding solutions, and therefore the FF Plus will not support it.]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Modulasetulo le badiri mo Palamenteng, re le komiti re lebogela tsibogelo ya ditheo tse di farologaneng mo thebolong ya mafatshe. Bontsi jwa ditshwaelo bo ne bo itshetlegile ka fa bokoeng jwa bonya jwa lefapha le go sa feng tshedimosetso e e maleba mo kopanong tsa bakopi. Selo se segolo e ne e le tiego ya go araba bakopi.
Lefatshe le na le mokgwa wa lona o le o tsenyang mo gare ga ditšhaba ka go sa utlwaneleng melelwane le ka go thukuthelela se e leng sa mong. A re tsepameng mo go ruteng batho tiriso ya lefatshe le go itsise ka ga lona. Lefatshe le seke la rebolelwa batho fela ka gore ba batla, mme bogolosegolo e nne ka tshwanelo. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson and colleagues, we as the committee are thankful for the response from different departments on land redistribution. Most of the suggestions were based on the slowness of the department and its not giving the relevant information at meetings with the applicants. The main thing that slows the process is the response to the applicants.
Land has its own way of causing members of the community to fight for what is not theirs and causing disagreements on boundaries. Let us focus on teaching the community about the usage of land and informing them about it. The land must not be given to anyone just because they want it; most importantly, it must be rightfully theirs.]
They must qualify for ownership on merit to own land. Emphasis must be on proper utilisation of land. Agricultural training for black farmers must be focused by providing competence in a production environment as well as creating competency in understanding the interaction with the full agricultural value chain. There is no structural approach to gathering information about small-scale tillers of the land to define the impact of the food situation in the country.
We should not lose sight of the co-operation of all stakeholders when dealing with the issue, including that of current landowners. Furthermore, we must accelerate state acquisition of land for redistribution. A very important point was raised by traditional leaders that the 1998 deadline was not communicated properly, hence some legitimate claims were not lodged. This point must be followed up, evaluated and revised. In our democratic society land reform should take place where there are voluntary sellers and voluntary buyers.
Transfer of land should take into account the continuation of production levels of the land as before, otherwise it will lead to increased poverty. The people who have got the land have been disappointed because, after a few months, the land that was productive was no longer productive.
UCDP e ema pegelo e nokeng. Ke a leboga [The UCDP supports the report. Thank you.]
Mr N T GODI: Madam Speaker, comrades and hon members, the PAC wants to thank the portfolio committee for having brought the debate on the pace of land reform to the fore. We have always adumbrated that all was not well and that there is room and need for much urgent improvement or a paradigm shift in our approach to land reform. What the presentations in the report are largely saying is a vindication of our position on this question. The PAC supports the report unreservedly. It has aptly captured the salient points raised in the presentations, and the portfolio committee’s own recommendations, when implemented, will go a long way to improve the lot of the land-hungry Africans.
The PAC fully agrees with the need to urgently tighten the security of farm dwellers, placing a moratorium on farm evictions, the calls for a moratorium on leasing and selling land to foreigners, and the need to review the current market-based approach to land reform. We support appropriation as an option that should be readily and resolutely used. We condemn as racist, obstructionist and counterproductive the inflation of prices as a form of resistance to land acquisition.
We hope the Minister will, as reported in today’s papers, sign the expropriation orders in respect of the reported cases in Gauteng and the North West. That should send a strong and clear message that we are serious about agrarian reform. Any equivocation will only embolden the intransigents.
The PAC also supports the registration of land ownership in terms of race and gender. Land deprivation in this country is not only race-based, but it also carries the face of an African woman. So as we strive for equity in patterns of land ownership, the aspect of gender balance must be central to it. What is clear here is that the cry continues, and will continue to reverberate from the valleys and hills, the squalid squatter settlements to the pigsties of the farm compounds that: Mayibuye,i-Africa! i-Africa, izwe lethu! [Africa will return! Africa our country!][Applause.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, since 1994 land reform in the form of redistribution, land restitution and land tenure reform has played a large role in giving back to the people, providing equal opportunity and contributing to the democracy, which we so much desire. Though progress and development is evident in this sector, a large backlog exists that makes one unsure as to whether the 2005 commitment to restitution will be met.
However, the MF has confidence in our President’s words and we have confidence that this sector can deliver. It is reports such as this that make this delivery possible. Through the eyes of our portfolio committee and the hands-on approach to matters that need to be addressed, we as Parliament are able to identify problems, loopholes, failures and successes. Through these we are guided to where we are going right and where we are going wrong. This gives us room for the corrections and alternatives, and to turn our failure and loopholes into success.
From this report it is evident that this sector is experiencing a number of problems that may be addressed in terms of the recommendations. Considering that we are just months away from 2006, the MF suggests the immediate activation of such recommendations to ensure delivery to the long-awaiting applicants. At our offices we have had a restitution claim since 1998 that has not yet been addressed. It is a claim for restitution of land, not money.
The MF calls for the immediate redress of administration of the Department of Land Affairs and Commission on Land Restitution, and seriously hopes for delivery in 2005, if possible. The MF supports this report. [Applause.]
Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I wish to refer to the speech by the hon member Nel, and I want to say at the outset that I realise that the hon Nel naturally speaks for the DA and what the DA believes in. He said that they will oppose this report and gave three reasons for this.
Die een rede is dat die verslag se opsomming eensydig was. Dan wil ek onmiddellik vir die agb lid vra: As u nou voel dat dit eensydig was, hoekom het die DA nie sy eie minderheidsverslag uitgebring nie? Dan sou ons mos die twee teen mekaar kon opweeg. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[One of the reasons is that the summary of the report was biased. Hence I immediately want to ask the hon member: If you feel that it was biased, why did the DA not bring out its own minority report? Then we could have compared the two reports.]
We want to say that the submissions and the report form part of a résumé of all written and oral submissions received and heard by the portfolio committee. Does the DA want us to prostitute what the people said, the submissions that we received and put into a report that which the DA as an opposition wants us to put into such a report?
Secondly, it is unfortunate that the hon Nel, whom I know is a good human being, made no reference whatsoever and showed no concern whatsoever in his speech for the dispossessed, other than the little, fleeting reference to the fact that skewed distribution must be corrected. He did not come along here and tell us how that skewed distribution needs to be corrected. I repeat again: That is what the DA believes in.
He said that the other reason for his opposition to the report was that there is the moratorium on the ownership of land by foreigners. I want to ask the hon members of the DA: Whose agenda are you pursuing? Do you not believe, many of you who are born and bred South Africans, that your children and my children and our children have no right to property in the majority of the countries in the world, including the Western world? But we, with the precious little that we have, must be prepared to make our land available to all and sundry and become foreigners in our own land.
Die agb lid sê dat ons moenie ras aandui op titelaktes nie. [The hon member says that race must not be indicated on title deeds.]
How else are you going to repair the skewed ownership of land? There are Nels and Van der Merwes who belong to the disadvantaged and the dispossessed groups as well, who share the same surnames as you have. We need to know who is the owner of the land, so that statistics can show us whether we are making progress or not. [Interjections.] Having said that of the DA, I need to take issue also with the FF Plus.
Mr M J ELLIS: I am sure they are shivering in their shoes.
Mr S ABRAM: The hon Groenewald had referred to it here and said . . .
Daar is kommer oor die raskwessie - weer eens die kwessie van ras wat ingebou gaan word in titelaktes. Almal van ons hier het al die jare hierdie “tags” gedra wat aan ons gegee is. Ons was geklassifiseerd as “Coloured”, “Other Coloured”, “race unknown” en allerhande ander goed. Nou wil u sê dat u daarteen gekant is, maar dit was goed gewees toe ons aan die ontvangkant daarvan was. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Daarom as ’n mens sou sê dat die verslag behep is met ras, natuurlik moet ons mos die kwessie van grondeienaarskap en grondbesit in die land regstel. As ons dit moet regstel, dan moet ons mos sê dat soveel persent van die bevolking wat swart is, het geen grond of toegang tot grond gehad nie. Dit is mos vanselfsprekend dat jy na ras behoort te verwys in die opset waarin ons leef. U sien, vriende, ons probleem met veral die DA is dat hy hom voordoen as ’n Afrika-party, maar hy het sy een-en-’n-half bene in die Westerse lande! [Gelag.] Hy wil Westerse standaarde hier kom afdwing op ons arm Afrikane. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[There is concern about the race issue; once again the issue of race being embodied in title deeds. All of us here have for many years carried these tags that were given to us. We were classified as “Coloured”, “Other Coloured”, “race unknown” and so forth. Now you want to say that you are against it, but it was good enough when we were at the receiving end of it. [Interjections.]
Therefore, if one were to say that this report is obsessed with race, then of course we must rectify the issue of land ownership and land tenure in this country. If we are to rectify that, then we have to say that so many per cent of the population that are black, owned no land or had no access to land. It then stands to reason that one should refer to race in the society in which we live. You see, friends, our problem with especially the DA is that it masquerades as an African party, but it has one and a half legs in the Western countries! [Laughter.] It wants to impose Western standards on us poor Africans.]
The evolution of political systems in South Africa encompasses parallels of conquest and liberation, as well as divergences in the form and content of the way in which land issues were addressed. New forms of governance in the postapartheid period determined legislative and policy reforms in South Africa. Land, its ownership and use has always played a pivotal role in shaping the political, economical and social processes in South Africa.
The postdemocracy land reform programme has, since 1994, achieved many of the objectives that the government had set out to do, in terms of balancing the unequal scale of land ownership of apartheid South Africa. However, the government had set itself certain targets, for example, settling all restitution claims by December 2005 and redistributing 30% of agricultural land to the previously disadvantaged.
Ten years hence, it was prudent for the portfolio committee to conduct this
particular inquiry. By and large, the bulk of the representations made to
the portfolio committee enshrine the principles contained in the Freedom
Charter, which, amongst other things, states that, South Africa belongs
to all who live in it, black and white’’,The people shall share in the
country’s wealth’’, and, ``The land shall be shared among those who work
it’’.
In the submissions received, many say that existing landowners have been in a strong position to determine what land is available and at what price. Even in cases of restitution or tenure reform, particularly commercial farms, the transfer of ownership was largely determined by the co-operation or lack of co-operation of the landowners.
The market-based approach currently being pursued is a policy choice on the part of the government, so they say, and is not specifically mandated by the Constitution, which allows for nonmarket approaches.
It is our view that the willingness of the state to pay market prices ensured that land reform remained expensive and there was the widespread perception that landowners were exploiting this willingness in order to obtain exorbitant prices.
The lack of tenure security for farmworkers and farm dwellers proved to have one of the most detrimental effects on the lives of farmworkers. Many farmworkers’ families had to endure farm evictions, both legal and illegal, and no alternative accommodation has been provided for those affected.
There were many women who were assaulted and evicted from farms. The violation of human rights was still ongoing, as if there were no justice system in place. Discriminatory inheritance practices served to disinherit women. South Africa still suffered from extreme levels of inequality, where African women remained the most marginalized and most vulnerable group. Strong views were expressed regarding what is perceived as a lack of holistic strategy involving all state departments, provincial and local governments and other stakeholders for land reform and rural development. These issues need to be addressed. In conclusion …
In hul voorlegging het die Gereformeerde Kerke van Suid-Afrika wat volgens 1996-statistiek 184 000 ha in Suid-Afrika besit, gesê die kerk van Jesus Christus het ’n roeping en moet met profetiese getuienis betrokke raak by die proses van grondhervorming en pastorale hulpverlening. Derhalwe vertrou ek dat die kerke dit sal goed dink om van hul grond aan te bied vir grondhervorming, wat tot dusver nog nie gebeur het nie.
Daar was ook sterk gevoelens in van die voorleggings wat ons ontvang het, dat talle organisasies, welsynsorganisasies en ander, heelwat grond in die land besit, maar dat hierdie grond verhuur word in stede daarvan dat dit deel word van die regstelling van die verkeerde patrone van grondbesit in ons land.
Ons hoop en vertrou dat kerke en ander instansies dit sal goed dink om betrokke te raak by hierdie belangrike taak van enersydse versoening en regstelling van die probleme wat deur die voorsate van die blanke gemeenskap in hierdie land veroorsaak is. Ons hou dit nie teen die huidige geslag witmense nie. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[In their submission the Reformed Churches of South Africa – which, according to the 1996 statistics own 184 000 ha in South Africa – said that the church of Jesus Christ has a calling and must become involved in the process of land reform and pastoral aid by way of bearing prophetic witness. Therefore, I trust that the churches will think it proper to offer some of their land for land reform, which has not happened so far.
In some of the submissions that we received there were also strong feelings that many organisations – charitable and other – own a lot of land in the country, but that this land is put out to lease instead of forming part of the rectification of the wrong patterns of land ownership in our country.
We hope and trust that churches and other institutions will think it proper to become involved in this very important task of reconciliation on the one hand, and the rectifying of problems that were caused by the forefathers of the white community in this country, on the other hand. We do not hold it against the present generation of white people. Thank you very much.]
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the hon member who has just spoken now spoke very piously, but he would know, as a former presiding officer in this House during the old apartheid era, that there are things called Rules.
He spoke about the fact that the hon Nel should have submitted a minority report, if he felt that strongly. But Rule 137(4) says that a committee may not submit a minority report, except where provided for in these Rules. I do not believe that these Rules provide for a minority report on this particular matter. So I would like him to withdraw that particular remark. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Well, hon member, the hon member is no longer at the podium. I will look at that specific issue and we will then take it forward on that basis. I now recognise the hon Whip on behalf of the Chief Whip.
Mr L J MODISENYANE: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THE ROLE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN THE LAST DECADE IN ENHANCING PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND NATION-BUILDING
Mr S A MSHUDULU: [Interjections.] Malibongwe! [Let it be praised!]
Madam Speaker, hon Deputy Minister, hon members and the nation at large, a statement was made this morning in a committee meeting of Water Affairs and Provincial and Local Government by Ms Gugu Moloi, from Umngeni Water Board, as follows, and I quote:
The problem we face in South Africa is that those with services decide for those who do not have services, hence implementation of decisions taken is delayed.
The statement might find expression in an environment where the first economy dictates the existence and the future of the second economy. On this day, 20 days before the 50th celebration of the people’s charter, the Freedom Charter, which was signed in Kliptown in 1955, we as the ANC reaffirm the relevance of a fundamental principle in our democratic dispensation, that, and I quote, “The people shall govern.”
We take this vision of our forebears forward with confidence after the majority of our people demonstrated through the ballot box that the ANC government is a government of the people and a government that will unite this society, which has been divided and humiliated by colonial and apartheid rule in the past.
In my analysis, the situation in various areas in our country today, where communities march against lack of service delivery or poor service delivery, is, in some instances, a result of the following. Firstly, inherited delivery backlogs; secondly, past development of our areas by the then rulers that did not recognise the right of black people to be in urban areas after forced removals and deprivation was legislated and enforced; thirdly, development that was directed at a specific, selected section of our society, which of course was predominantly white; and fourthly, the past systems of local governance that did not recognise the right of the majority of South Africans to participate in decision-making processes, as well as their right to be informed.
The effects of the Freedom Charter on the democratic change in the past 10 years can be identified in our policy, constitutional, legislative and institutional framework as follows: Reconstruction and development in terms of the people-centred principle, a people-driven and democratic government; in the local government White Paper, which lays the foundation for a restructured and developmental local government; in the Constitution of South Africa, which states in its preamble, and I quote:
Heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights …
and -
We, the people of South Africa, believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity.
In terms of the Constitution, the objects of local government are, and I quote: “to provide democratic and accountable government for local communities” and “to encourage the involvement of communities and community organisations in matters of local government”.
The Constitution also entrenches an obligation to have a developmental local government that guarantees quality service delivery in terms of free basic services, namely water, sanitation, refuse removal and electricity, and equitable distribution of such resources.
It is provided in the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act, the Local Government: Municipal Demarcation Act and the Electoral Act that municipal structures should legislate for a restructuring of 24 municipalities, arranging them into 284 wall-to-wall municipalities that are manageable and that integrate the previously isolated and underdeveloped rural areas with the resourced and affluent areas, in terms of Chapter 7 of the Constitution. Hence the once-divided communities are combined today in terms of the demarcation process and the Electoral Act, which establishes wards and entrenches a gender perspective. The Local Government: Municipal Structures Act also legislates for the establishment of ward committees, where possible. These are structures that allow for a 10-member committee in every ward, chaired by a ward councillor. All sectors should be represented in subcommittees, eg, business, people with disabilities, women, the youth, sports, education, health, safety, churches, etc.
It is these committees that together with councillors represent the needs and aspirations of communities and account for what government has done or is doing, and/or what services government will prioritise in future within the Integrated Development Plan that informs our budgets.
The Local Government: Municipal Systems Act entrenches the very fundamental principle underpinning the Constitution in terms of its preamble. It also defines a municipality as including communities, councillors and administrative structures.
The Local Government: Municipal Systems Act also includes the rights and responsibilities of communities within the concept of Masakhane and the Batho Pele principle. It has a chapter dedicated to community participation and declares it a community’s right, and not a favour.
It also has a chapter dedicated to the process of the Integrated Development Programme, which allows for stakeholders, including ward committees, to be part thereof from the needs identification phase to the prioritisation and consolidation of needs phase, the strategic planning phase, the cost and norms analysis phase, the implementation phase, and monitoring and research phase.
Not only does the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act guarantee a developmental local government, but it also includes protection in terms of an indigent policy that is pro-poor and pro-indigent. It also includes codes of conduct for councillors and government officials, as well as for a performance management system that allows for agreed key performance indicators.
The elaborate explanation that I’ve just given represents the commitment the ANC-led government has displayed and demonstrated in the past 10 years. Participatory democracy is deep-rooted in the tradition of the ANC.
The ANC is a mass-based organisation that is democratic, nonsexist and nonracial. Furthermore, the ANC-led government has strategically adopted integrated and decentralised service delivery. It is, therefore, true that in deepening democracy and the inclusion of all other stakeholders, the ANC also developed mechanisms and strategies to strengthen organs of civil society through public meetings or imbizos, IDP forums, ward committees, community policing forums, traditional councils, public hearings in Parliament, access to councils by citizens and the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities.
Let me quote from our strategies and tactics: “The central aim of transformation is to improve the conditions of the people, especially the poor.” It is, therefore, correct and appropriate to say that in terms of addressing the capacity of the state to ensure national and social cohesion consistent with the prescription of the Constitution, and in line with what President Thabo Mbeki and the ANC stand for, we are on course.
Ke tla rata hore ke toboketse hanyane bakeng sa ho kopa ho batho ba rona hore ba tsamaye dikopano tsohle tsa bomasepala. Ke kope hape hore dikopanong tse bitswang, haholoholo tsa dikomiti tsa diwate le tsa diIDP, re nkeng karolo. (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)
[I would like to take this opportunity to urge the electorate to attend all municipal meetings. I further implore them to voice their opinions at such meetings, especially in IDP and ward committee meetings.]
Kubantu bakuthi ndithi, bantwana bomthonyama nelizwe liphela, xa abantu bakuthi bethabatha inxaxheba kwizinto ezinxulumene nempilo yabo okanye norhulumente onyulwe ngabo, mabangaxokiswa okanye balahlekiswe ziingcuka namatshivela ayengakwazi nokuvula imilomo ngexesha lengcinezelo okanye lomzabalazo. Nale nkululeko abayivuyelayo namhlanje yalwela yi-ANC, engumbutho wabantu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[To our people I say, children of the soil and the nation at large, when our people participate in matters that relate to their health or the government they voted for, they should not be lied to or deceived by lazy people who could not open their mouths during the apartheid era or the struggle. Even this freedom that they are happy about today was fought for by the ANC, the people’s organisation.]
In the one minute that I have left, I would like to mention an issue that was reliably reported. For example, here in the Western Cape there is evidence of lack of maximum community participation. Here is a case of delay in the implementation of the regional electricity regulator, pending the establishment of ward committees, which were only established on 25 May
- This has led to the present ANC government correcting the wrongs done by the DA, which was previously in government in this province, by putting this issue on the council agenda, for the first time.
I’m calling upon members of Parliament perhaps to agree that, in those areas where there are riots, we should engage with ward committees and find out whether a communication mechanism is in place so that if there is a vacuum, we then fill it. Amandla! [Power!] [Applause.]
Hon MEMBERS: Ngawethu! [It’s ours!]
Mr W P DOMAN: Chair, I feel for the hon Mshudulu, because he can only refer to legislation and the theory, because in practice we really see very little of this today.
National intelligence investigations into the unrest in local government spheres don’t have to focus on the reason. It is clear that nondelivery is the cause. It is also unnecessary to try and unearth a third force that does not exist. The investigation, however, can have some merit if it determines the threat that general uprisings in the local government sphere can present to democracy and stability in South Africa.
President Mbeki in his budget speech the other day considered the matter, and said that it does not pose a threat - in any event, not at the moment. It is a pity that the ANC allowed the situation to develop to this degree. We don’t revel in the situation; we are all in the same boat. If South Africa burns, all of us will be affected. If democracy is threatened, all of our rights are in jeopardy.
Local government is the sphere where the state meets the demands of citizens head-on. We admit that the ANC faced serious backlogs in infrastructure, human skills and uneven development when it came into power. We also appreciate that resources are limited, and that it takes time to address people’s needs.
However, for its part, the ANC should admit that it has made a few serious mistakes of its own. Instead of making use of the well-developed skills base existent in municipalities around the country, the ANC opted for a policy of transformation that excluded experienced municipal officials along racial lines. In the Western Cape, and to a lesser extent in the Northern Cape, it was not only whites but also Coloured people who were sidelined when they still had much to offer.
The blame must be laid squarely at the feet of local government politicians who implement transformation with a racial zeal that I believe is often cause for dismay for some responsible leaders within the ANC. The DA believes that the skilled people who remain in local government must be retained through the creation of hospitable working conditions and through merit-based appointments and career-pathing. The Minister should do a stocktaking of present skills in municipalities and do all in his power to retain and advance this skills base.
In this regard, the Minister should be very wary of Salga’s plan to amalgamate all local government pension funds, as this will seriously destabilise the municipal workforce. But most often, it is the politicians themselves who are failing the people. There is no excuse for the fraud, corruption, self-enrichment, nepotism and lavish privileges in travel, offices, entertainment, cars, cell phone accounts, etc, that they afford themselves. The discretionary funds that mayors, deputy mayors, speakers and their cronies vote for themselves, and what they spend it on are quite shocking. Strange decisions like the Tlhageng local municipality spending R87 000 on a councillor’s funeral – R17 000 on the coffin alone – are commonplace all over South Africa. [Interjections.] I’m coming to that.
It’s also a tragedy that councillors are found illegally lending themselves hundreds of thousands of rands, but not repaying a cent when caught out, and continuing in their positions as if nothing had happened. All over the country people are beginning to turn against these councillors, and are wondering what the liberation struggle was all about. They could be forgiven for thinking that many ANC councillors struggled only to enrich themselves through fraud and corruption. They trample on the trust that ordinary people have put in them. They destabilise our communities and threaten the health of our democracy.
All political parties must commit themselves to dealing ruthlessly with corrupt councillors. The hon Van Wyk can now listen. The DA is at present conducting an investigation into the alleged misbehaviour of one of our mayors. Although we are disappointed about the allegations, we are committed to showing that we will not tolerate misbehaviour in our party, and we challenge other parties and this House to do the same.
The ANC governs in more than 260 out of the 284 municipalities, and if you can instil discipline amongst your councillors, it can change local government in South Africa totally.
Die voorstelle van dié mosie gee ook hoop oor hoe die plaaslike regering demokrasie versterk het. Ek het so pas betoog dat swak dienslewering en menige korrupte raadslede juis die demokrasie bedreig.
Nog ‘n saak wat ondemokraties totaal hande uitruk is die regering agter geslote deure deur die uitvoerende burgemeesterskomiteestelsel. Dis net verstommend dat die ANC, wat so hoog opgee oor openheid en deursigtigheid, ‘n stelsel bevorder waar die publiek en die media doelbewus uitgesluit word.
Daar word vandag by munisipaliteite oneindig meer besluite agter geslote deure geneem as ooit in die apartheidsera. Die doel van dié stelsel was vir vinniger besluite en meer direkte verantwoordelikheid, maar die rade misbruik nou ‘n tegniese punt in die wet om agter geslote deure te vergader. Én, weens die swak regering van verskeie rade het hierdie geheimhouding nou ‘n gemaklike skuiling geword en moet ons dié wet verander.
Ons sal graag ook wil sien dat subrade by metropolitaanse munisipaliteite uitgebou word - maksimum afwenteling - sonder om die een stad, een begroting in gedrang te bring. Dis mos duidelik dat metro’s geweldig onpersoonlik en ver van die mense te staan gekom het.
Die Minister en die ANC én die vorige spreker roem aan hoeveel wykskomitees oor die land tot stand gekom het, en spog selfvoldaan dat dit nou demokrasie bevorder.
Inteendeel, wykskomitees verskraal die demokrasie. Hoe kan tien persone die wye skakering van belange in ‘n wyk verteenwoordig? Hoekom is daar ‘n wet vir die raadslede dat hulle verder moet rapporteer, maar daar is geen wet vir daardie mense om weer met die gemeenskap te werk nie. Dis ‘n belaglike situasie.
Wat ons nodig het, is dat die wykraadslede tweemaandeliks moet terugrapporteer by vergaderings, en dat enige belangegroep en lid van die publiek daarheen moet kan kom, en nie net tien mense nie. Ons moet dít totaal hervorm.
Ek maak dus die punt dat daar oplossings vir probleme bestaan. Maar, ongelukkig, het die Minister en sy departement en die ANC iets ideologies gebind aan ‘n paar heilige koeie, en wil hulle nie nuut dink oor dié saak nie. [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The proposals of this motion also give hope regarding the way local government has strengthened democracy. Just a moment ago I argued that poor service delivery and the many corrupt councillors were in fact endangering democracy.
Another matter that is getting completely out of hand in an undemocratic way is the governing behind closed doors through the executive mayoral committee system. It is just so amazing that the ANC, which makes so much of openness and transparency, is promoting a system that deliberately excludes the public and the media.
Infinitely more decisions are being made secretively by municipalities today than during the apartheid era. The purpose of this system was to expedite decisions and to increase direct responsibility, but the councils are now misusing a technical point in the law to meet behind closed doors. And, this secrecy has become a convenient cover because of the poor governing of various councils, and we must change this law.
We would also like to see that subcouncils at metropolitan municipalities be extended – maximum devolution– without jeopardising the concept of one city, one budget. It is clear indeed that metros are extremely impersonal and were established far away from people.
The Minister and the ANC and the previous speaker pride themselves on how many ward committees have been established across the country and boast with great satisfaction that this is promoting democracy.
On the contrary, ward committees attenuate democracy. How can ten people represent the wide range of interests in a ward? Why is there a law for councillors to give further account, but there is no law for those people to work with the community again? It is a ridiculous situation.
What we need is for the ward councillors to report back at meetings on a bimonthly basis and for any interest group and member of the public to be able to attend, and not just ten people. We must completely reform this.
I am therefore making the point that there are solutions to problems. But, unfortunately, the Minister and his department and the ANC are ideologically attached to a few sacred cows and refuse to rethink this matter. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Mr P F SMITH: Chair, the IFP would like to start by commending Ms Bhengu, who is not here today, I think, for her motion. The topic of discussion today is, ``The role of local government in enhancing participatory democracy, economic development and nation-building’’. We think that is a very important topic, but there is one glaring omission: she doesn’t mention in this topic the issue of service delivery.
Frankly, the most important issue facing municipalities today is not the three issues she’s mentioned, but the improvement of service delivery. We’ve all heard stories. Let’s take up the issues here. The first is participatory democracy. We’ve all heard of many instances, for example, of municipal councillors who, in 2001, very enthusiastically called community meetings to discuss delivery, but the self-same councillors today are not doing so because the municipalities have not delivered, and they are too embarrassed to go back to their constituents on the lack of delivery. The key issue is delivery, not these other issues.
However, I would like to say a few words on them, because they are the subject of discussion. On the issue of participation and enhancing participation in local government, this is a constitutional injunction. The object of local governance includes enhancing and participating in municipalities.
If you look at the legislation we have cast, the structures Act and the systems Act, they both provide for extensive consultation in respect of IDPs, the budget process and a whole range of matters. So, as a party, we are happy with this broad framework, but there are a number of implementation issues that are problematic, even in respect of participation.
For example, in connection with ward committees, my colleague Mr Doman mentioned a few problems. They are problematic, and the issue needs to be resolved. There is the manner in which councils meaningfully integrate the community inputs into their governance processes. One doesn’t want a pro forma consultation process; it’s got to be a genuine one. In too many instances, it is community-driven, it’s consultant-driven, and it is not really serious.
Issues of failure to deliver are being addressed as opposed to failure to communicate. You cannot pretend that the issues around the country are simply a failure to communicate. They are in fact a failure of delivery.
The second issue Ms Bhengu puts in her motion is that of economic development. This is again a constitutional injunction, and if we look at the legislation, we have provisions encouraging municipalities to get involved. We have local economic development, LED; we have community development programmes.
But, again, many speakers have mentioned in the past that South Africa comprises two economies – the rich and the poor. That self-same categorisation of rich and poor applies also to municipalities. There are rich municipalities and there are very poor ones. It’s all very well to talk about municipalities encouraging local economic development, but if they lack human capacity if they lack the financial capacity and the residents themselves are extremely poor, it’s extremely difficult for them to engage in that. In fact, it’s totally unrealistic for them to be expected to deliver local economic development under those circumstances.
Again, this is an issue we raised in our budget debate. We think that the funding regime, especially for the poor rural municipalities, needs to be reviewed because you cannot expect things of them if they do not have the resources to do it.
When it comes to nation-building, this is not really a local government function whatsoever. I am not quite sure why it’s included in the subject heading at all. Nonetheless, we must accept that everything we do as individuals, as spheres of government, as NGOs or churches, impacts upon nation-building. So, it’s true to say that municipalities should indeed assess what they do and it’s contribution to nation-building. That applies to the rhetoric used by local politicians as well as the actual delivery. Are people getting the free basic services? That is a positive contribution to local delivery.
I do want to emphasise again that the real issue before us is that of delivery, and these other issues are peripheral. Right now the national executive council of the ANC, for example, has accepted that the mass protests around the country reflect legitimate concerns by residents about nondelivery. It’s not a figment of anybody’s imagination. Though these grievances are not universal, they are widespread, and people’s expectations are not being met. We believe that municipalities should focus more on their core activities, and that is service delivery.
Mr M DIKO: Madam Chair and hon members, our constitutional state is premised on the assumption that local government, as a tier of government closest to the people, should play a pivotal role in participatory democracy, economic development and nation-building. This was the intention of the writers of the Constitution. However, we need to measure reality against this ideal and come to the unequivocal conclusion that local government has failed to live up to this constitutional expectation.
Whilst local government was intended to be the most accessible tier of government, the experience on the ground has proven otherwise. It is therefore also not surprising that participation in local government elections is far lower than that in the national and provincial elections. It would also be incorrect to ascribe this lack of interest of local residents to a lack of interest in local government, because recent protests and mass actions across the country have proven that people are interested in local issues.
The failure of local government to encourage participatory democracy is a core reason for these often violent protests. People have tried to communicate with their local governments, as that is their constitutional right. However, they are often ignored or fobbed off with empty promises by very arrogant officials and sometimes by politicians.
The national government needs to intervene in terms of what is happening at the local level because we do not have a federal state in South Africa. I thank you.
Mr A HARDING: Madam Chair, the people most affected by municipal infrastructure and service delivery programmes have thus far been somewhat excluded from the national policy debate. There is a chance to change that reality, given the politicised nature of these issues at present.
What is needed is for South African policy-makers to take seriously the kinds of lessons that exist. For example, even the World Bank is ready to concede regarding the case for state intervention and higher infrastructure standards. There is, in addition, a growing political imperative associated with aligning infrastructure and service delivery to developmental goals.
This reality is reflected in the severe tensions – particularly evident during the past several months – associated with the cutting off of services by municipalities as well as the wave of protests in the townships. Some cut-offs have occurred in such a manner that even important community organisations have been unable to mediate or justify them, and that has intensified local-level alienation and anger. This is aggravated by the fact that councillors do not engage their communities, as they should, in terms of the integrated development programme.
Furthermore, a breakdown in intergovernmental relations further ferments the fragmentation of service delivery. Policy-makers must incorporate into infrastructure policy programme and project design the full economic cost and benefits of different options. While the broader net economic benefits of higher infrastructure standards should become self-evident, they are not yet fully reflected in local level implementation.
In terms of delegating powers and responsibilities to municipalities, the issue of unfunded mandates should be avoided, as funds need to follow the delegated functions. However, coming to this conclusion is not only a matter for open-minded technical specialists, it is a political struggle. The balance of forces at present requires that a wide variety of organisations become more involved and in detail, regarding controversies surrounding the infrastructure and services debate. I thank you.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, our nation has made incredible progress in the issue of participatory democracy. The majority of our people are well informed, and they know that democracy in South Africa means more than making a cross once every five years. Most of our citizens desire an active and meaningful involvement in our democracy on a day-to-day basis.
In order to encourage regular democratic participation, national government has devolved much of its political, fiscal and administrative powers to local authorities as the sphere of government closest to the people. Not only must local authorities ensure the sustainable provision of basic services such as water, electricity, sanitation and housing, but the modern municipality must also play a leading role in economic development, job creation and sustainable development for all our communities.
Our legislative framework on local government has done much to encourage participatory democracy. Our country’s Constitution recognises the importance of democratic participation in ensuring sustainable, democratic and developmental local authorities.
The Local Government: Municipal Structures Act requires that all municipal councils must develop mechanisms to consult and involve the community and community organisations. The same Act provides that a municipality must develop a culture of municipal governance that complements formal representative government by encouraging the local community to participate in the affairs of the municipality.
I do not know whether the mass action and the demonstrations by the people at local level should be regarded as a healthy sign of their involvement at local level. What I do know and what I have seen in the reports and also on TV is that the people are angry. It is time that our local councillors regard this anger and address the basic needs of all our people. I thank you.
Mr I D MOGASE: Madam Chair, hon members, I just want to say that during the first decade, and in line the Freedom Charter, the ANC laid a solid foundation for democratic governance and the transformation of the apartheid state into one that is developmental and people-orientated. Attention is also shifting towards monitoring and evaluating the situation. The performance of municipalities in the last decade has been satisfactory and we believe that there is enough room for improvement. Consequently the important role that has been played and continues to be played by local government in South Africa cannot be overemphasised. This is so because local government has not only brought about participatory democracy, but has also been at the coalface of service delivery and economic development.
Clearly, local government is without a doubt the face of government closest to the people. Municipalities therefore are deliberately placed as agents for progressive change in economic development and building of a common national identity.
While this has not happened in all municipalities, we in the ANC feel that the municipalities must be supported and strengthened in fulfilling their developmental duties, and creating conditions for the building of a nation that stands to enjoy equal economic opportunities.
Metros have a key role to play in making new advances in improving the quality of people’s lives. While we appreciate the development work that they have undertaken so far, we nonetheless want to see them signing agreements with other cities of the world that have economic muscle to bring investment into this country.
We also want to see them making efforts in entering into public-private partnerships with big business in their areas. We further want to see feasible economic activities in our local areas through viable local economic development strategies and through the Expanded Public Works Programme.
We are aware that the big metros are hard-pressed due to the movement of people from rural areas in search of better lives. This burdens the already limited resources. However, rural municipalities should prepare themselves for this pool of resources and find ways of dealing with it, with the assistance of the South African Local Government Association and the Department of Local and Provincial Government.
Municipalities must make better use of ward committees. The ANC feels that ward committees need to work and deal with people’s problems and take up the people’s inputs to the centre of municipal agendas. This would give practical meaning to the notion of people-driven development. Ward committees need to function well in order to sustain the process of engaging with communities. We wanted to see ward committees creating space for the community to play a role in determining the future of areas in which their people live. When dealing with issues of poverty alleviation, municipalities need to work closely with ward committees and encourage participation in identifying the indigent and implementing the indigency policy. Setting up independent development plans is important, but IDPs must show how a municipality will address the needs of people living in its area, and the development needs of those most in need must be prioritised.
Municipalities must find innovative ways of linking IDPs with local economic development strategies, and connecting economic growth with poverty alleviation. Municipalities need to consider and encourage strategies that have the potential to intensify investment in training and skills development in order to upgrade economically viable communities.
The system of local government is certainly advancing our national democratic development objective, but even more, it has the significant potential to deepen our democracy and to substantially continue to meet our challenges.
As the ANC, we take local government very seriously and see Project Consolidate as one project that proposes engagement between national and provincial spheres, together with key partners and stakeholders to find a new creative, practical and impact-orientated mode of supporting working with local government. Our strategic approach should be to create an environment conducive to investment. Crime prevention and skills development must be addressed, and economic activities accelerated as an intention to trigger associated projects that will support a new economic growth.
Many formerly disadvantaged communities do not have the skills and the education that business needs. This must be addressed. We have developed and support black economic empowerment strategies and have a good relationship with business.
I also want to say that some people just make a lot of noise about the Deputy President. In 1985 and 1986 their man, Eschel Roodie, stole R64 million and nothing happened to that man. The next thing is that he was seen dancing in Japan, and enjoying the R64 million that he took from the coffers of the South African government.
Mr M J ELLIS: He was not the deputy president.
Mr I D MOGASE: We have had bad times as blacks. We have lived with the passes. I just want to tell the DA that as soon as black people in the DA want to take over the leadership, they are going to run away and no more investment will come to the DA. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die onderwerp vir bespreking vanmiddag behels drie aspekte: eerstens, die bevordering van deelnemende demokrasie; tweedens, die ekonomiese ontwikkeling; en dan derdens, nasiebou. Die VF Plus is egter van mening dat nie een van dié aspekte nagekom word nie.
Die munisipale-stelselwet het ‘n bepaalde hoofstuk te make met deelnemende demokrasie, wat bepaal dat gemeenskappe geraadpleeg moet word oor sekere raadsbesluite wat geneem moet word. Dit is egter die teorie; in die praktyk gebeur dit nie. En ‘n goeie voorbeeld is nou met die naamverandering van Pretoria, waar die gemeenskap net eenvoudig geïgnoreer is en die stelselwet nie nagekom is nie.
Sommige stadsrade gaan ook uit hul pad uit om veral Afrikanergemeenskappe te boelie wanneer dit kom by naamveranderings en die verandering van straatname. Dít bevorder nie nasiebou nie, maar dit skep eerder polarisasie.
Ekonomiese ontwikkeling word egter gestrem op plaaslike regeringsvlak. Hoe kan ekonomiese ontwikkeling plaasvind as die debiteure of uitstaande skuld byna R30 miljard beloop op landswye basis?
Geen ekonomiese ontwikkeling kan plaasvind met sulke debiteure nie. Dié slegte skuld word weerspieël in die gebrek aan dienslewering, die agteruitgang van strate, die gebrekkige behuising, en alles wat daarmee gepaardgaan, en dit manifesteer dan ook in die opstande wat tans plaasvind.
Die agb lede, van veral die ANC, kan allerlei redes wil aanvoer oor waarom die opstande plaasvind, maar ek wil vandag vir u sê, u het daardie kultuur geskep dat wanneer mense nie tevrede is op plaaslike regeringsvlak nie, moet hulle mobiliseer en in opstand kom. U pluk nou die vrugte daarvan.
Die ander aspek is die gebrek aan kundigheid. Die Minister kom en kondig sy Projek Konsolideer aan, waar hy 136 kundiges nou wil versprei om kundige dienste te gaan lewer aan plaaslike regerings. Dit is ‘n bewys dat daar ‘n uittog van kundigheid was as gevolg van regstellende aksie en omvorming. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, the subject under discussion this afternoon comprises three aspects: firstly, the promotion of participatory democracy; secondly, economic development; and then thirdly, nation-building. The FF Plus is of the opinion, however, that not one of these aspects is being fulfilled.
The municipal systems legislation has a specific chapter dealing with participatory democracy, which specifically states that communities have to be consulted on certain issues prior to councils taking decisions on them. However, this is the theory; in practice this does not happen. A good example of this is the recent renaming of Pretoria, where the community was simply ignored and the systems legislation was not complied with.
Some city councils also go out of their way to bully specifically the Afrikaans communities when it comes to the process of name changes and the changing of street names. This does not promote nation-building, but rather creates polarisation.
Economic development at the local government level is being hampered, however. How can economic development take place when the debtors or outstanding debt at the national level amounts to R30 billion?
No economic development can take place with such debt. This bad debt is reflected in the poor service delivery, the deterioration of streets, the defective housing, and everything that goes with it, and manifests in the protests currently taking place.
The hon members, especially of the ANC, can put forward all sorts of reasons for why this revolt is taking place, but I want to state today that you have created the culture whereby, if people are dissatisfied at local government level, they should mobilise and revolt. You are now reaping the fruits thereof.
The other aspect is the lack of expertise. The Minister now comes and announces his Project Consolidate whereby he intends sending out 136 experts to render expert service to local government structures. This is proof that there was a skills flight as a result of affirmative action and transformation.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon House, the advent of the wall-to-wall system of municipalities may have been thought of as a panacea to a nation that never knew much about democracy. Unfortunately, the system was introduced with government and the public unprepared. The result of this unpreparedness was the apathy and outright rejection in some quarters by traditional leaders; the abuse of the system by activists in SANCO, disguised as agents of government; and ineptitude on the part of municipalities, most of whom are fraught with nepotism and corruption.
The accumulation of the failures over the last decades are in the form of unfulfilled promises and the inability of the powers that be to put the message across; the results are marches and havoc in six of the nine provinces. Of significance, five of the provinces so affected have been under ANC rule since 1994.
This is a clear message that the proverbial worm has started to turn. People are tired of being bombarded with promises that remain unfulfilled and, instead of addressing issues at hand, the ANC government reverts to propaganda - which they are second to none at - and say all the uprisings are the work of the third force. [Interjections.]
People who were mobilised way back in 1994 on political promises such as job opportunities, democratic governance, service delivery and a higher quality of life have seen mayors imposed upon them in the face of democracy. They have seen people being retrenched from jobs they were promised. Most of them have become poorer than before as opposed to achieving promised better life.
To the average person the local government has not been of any help, whatsoever. A man like Mkhize of Mvoti, will not sing the praises of local government since he saw his life earnings go up in smoke when local government officials connived to sell his property. This may be a sole example, but more that goes unsaid is experienced by the day.
The disestablishment of cross-boundary municipalities is further proof and concession by government that, for the past five years, people who lived in those areas did not receive the best of services and have nothing to write home about. In so far as local government in the past five years is concerned, let alone in the decade … [Time expired.] Thank you.
Mr N T GODI: Madam Chairperson, comrades and hon members, the sphere of local government was the last to be fully and truly democratised after
- Since then, much has been done to consolidate and capacitate it. It is the most important level of government as it is the sphere closest to the people and their service delivery point. It is the sphere where the revolutionary concept of participatory democracy is made manifest through ward committees.
There is however unevenness in terms of the capacity resource base and the developmental challenges inherited from white rule. This has led to varying levels of success and failures in it executing its mandate of improving the material conditions of our people.
There are countless men and women, politicians and administrators, who have poured heart and soul into the gigantic work of providing excellent service to our people despite the various constraints they are encountering. These cadres need to be recognised, commended and supported; their hard and conscientious work has made a substantive difference in the lives of our people.
However, challenges remain. A significant number of our local councils do not have sufficient capacity to adequately discharge their responsibilities; that is, a lack of skill and capacity to operate within legislated frameworks.
The kind of backlogs in some instances inherited from white rule is so enormous that the resources are simply not there to wipe them out all at once. The ideological degeneration of some of our people who use their position of trust to enrich themselves at the expense of service delivery has been a factor, but most certainly not the only factor.
For the urban and peri-urban councils, the continued influx of our people from the rural areas makes proper planning very difficult. It is a challenge that can only be addressed through a massive process of rural economic upliftment.
The recent sporadic incidents of protests about services are a wake-up call to all, especially the corrupt element, the inefficient and the rich. The poor in this country, who are a massive portion around isolated spots of opulence, have been extremely patient. Theirs has been a protest not only about service delivery, but their socio-economic circumstances; why they are poor and have nothing, whilst others are rich and have everything.
The message to the rich is that if the poor cannot eat, the rich won’t sleep. The PAC therefore calls on private capital to come to the party and invest resources to alleviate the plight of the poor. After all, it is in their long-term social interest. The long march to economic and social emancipation continues. Thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Chairperson, last week, we debated a Bill to enhance relations between the three spheres of government, namely, national, provincial and local government.
Our supreme law, the Constitution of 1996, clearly states that the independence of operations in each sphere is authorised under the values, purport and spirit of our democracy enshrined in our Bill of Rights.
The MF views the three spheres through a zoom lens, with the national government having the widest view. Provincial government zooms in on individual provinces, and there is a closer zooming in on local governments. The MF sees local government as our eyes on the ground, ensuring service delivery in areas, being able to address community needs, problems and maintenance more effectively. It is able to address individual area needs.
However, problems do exist since, in our constituencies, with minimal resources and manpower, delivery is seriously hampered. It is ok for us as national government to take more note of problems on the ground and make plans, policies and legislation to correct the loopholes, but local government, to assert its true potential and deliver to our people, needs greater help.
The MF won’t deny that some municipalities have made a great success of their areas, but many need assistance to ensure delivery. They need an efficient and effective staff and resources to deliver on the ground. Thank you.
Mr M G PHADAGI: Chairperson, it is very interesting to come to Parliament and listen to people from the TBVC states telling us that we are not delivering. Those who failed our country for the past 300 years are talking about corruption and nepotism whereas, all along, they were working for their brothers and sisters. Now that the ANC has brought them to Parliament, they have started to tell a lot of stories. [Applause.]
The democratic dispensation of local government has as its main focus the involvement of the communities that it was established to govern. This then becomes the distinguishing variable or factor between the dispensation of the past and the present era. Before 1995, everything was done differently. We have now established the sort of municipalities that can and are delivering. [Interjections.]
I come from very far. On my way to Parliament I pass townships and villages, which, within 10 years, are now getting service delivery. This is more than the white government gave them in the past 300 years. In fact, they were not delivering but destroying. Now that we are delivering, they say there is no delivery. [Applause.]
Even the few who had the right to select the then local councillors concede that their involvement was only limited to the day of election, after which the rest was run by those who were not even elected. The elected representatives of that era had a very limited role in determining the agenda of the councils. The town clerks and their heads of departments had what you could call “absolute power”.
In effect, local government was not elected and even the few who had the political right of choosing public representatives played a very minimal role. The new order has ushered in an effective way of community participation, which makes ours the best the world has ever seen. It is a matter of common knowledge that some developing democracies are taking notes from us.
In terms of legislation, a municipality is described in terms of its constituent components, which are the elected representatives, administrators and, most importantly, the community. The implication of this description is that the council’s decisions and programme must have the support of the community it serves before they can see the light of day. The ward committee system creates an unprecedented favourable environment that affords communities the freedom to make their input concerning the integrated development programme of the municipality.
The integrated development programme, IDP, is the sum total of the submissions from all stakeholders of all municipality forum areas. The public representatives from the forum must adopt this strategy document before it serves on the agenda of the municipality council. Once it is adopted, the IDP then becomes the only programme of the municipality. The public uses this strategic tool to monitor the performance of municipalities. Government departments, parastatals and the private sector are required to respect this legislated requirement. The fact that government departments have resources does not give them the licence to implement programmes without the due process of consulting the affected communities. The consent of the community can only be proved by inclusion of the department’s proposal in the IDP. The involvement of the public in the affairs of the municipality is not a matter of choice, but a legislated one.
Ten months before the adoption of the new budget, the mayor of a municipality is required to table before the council sitting the process of the new budget for public information. Added to this is the manner in which the public will be involved. Unlike in the past, where the town treasurer would be expected to present the draft budget, with councillors expected to adopt what was the product of technocrats, the democratic dispensation requires that the budget be led by public representatives, in consultation with the electorate. This is achieved through public participation in the drafting of the budget before it is adopted by the council.
What becomes a critical core challenge is to ensure that institutional arrangements are put in place to deliver on this important political development of our time. We should assist all our municipalities to develop effective ward committees that will be a proper vehicle for delivery and participation. It is of equal importance to educate our people to understand the value inherent in taking part in the forums that are led by the municipalities.
There are municipalities that are doing well in the area of implementation. The Department of Provincial and Local Government, DPLG, has positively reinforced that performance through the Vuna Awards. We must congratulate the department for the good work.
Local government is an important player in nation-building and management of people in localities. In actual fact, a nation is nothing but a conglomerate of all municipalities in the sovereign territory of that nation. South Africa is lucky to have a national framework to determine the local government structures system. These structures are formed through the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act, and the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act.
Local government is a national project created for national development. The contribution to infrastructure development by any city, especially the big ones, is geared towards national economic development. It is for this reason that the national development plan cannot be developed in isolation but in conjunction with provincial development strategies and IDPs.
People of different communities see themselves, firstly, as residents of specific communities and their livelihood is intrinsically linked to that locality. For this reason, national fulfilment is sourced from local geographic space rather than high-flying concepts of sovereignty, patriotism and nationalism.
Our movement and the country have repeatedly called for the establishment of a nonracial community which will, once again, serve as a basis for the creation of a nation and society, as envisaged in the Freedom Charter.
Ndi khou livhuwa ndo kona u wana tshifhinga tsha u amba. Musi ndo dzula hafha, ndo wana zwauri vhanwe vhathu vhane vha khou takuwa vha tshi amba . . . (Translation of Venda paragraph follows.) [Thank you for granting me this opportunity to speak. When seated here, I have realised that some people who are rising to speak . . . ]
It reminds me of the era of Mr Mphephu, Mr Mangope, KwaZulu-Natal and so many others. [Laughter.]
Ndi khou livhuwa uri vho mpha tshifhinga tsha uri ndi kone u talutshedza vhathu vha shango lino. Nndaa. [Zwiseo.] [U vhanda zwanda.] [I am grateful that I have been granted an opportunity to be able to explain to the people of this country. Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES - VISIT TO PRISONS IN THE NORTH WEST AND MPUMALANGA PROVINCES
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, it’s twenty five past four and I think that everybody here wants to go home.
Minister and members, the purpose of our visits to the ten correctional centres in Mpumalanga and North West province, Potchefstroom, Mogwase, Losperdfontein, Rustenburg, Witbank, Barberton, Nelspruit, Ermelo, Barberton town unit, and Bethal, was to interact with correctional officials and management at the local level on the ground.
Other purposes were to investigate the overcrowding situation, assess the status of children and youth in prisons, address the concerns of staff on overtime and the movement from a five-day establishment to a seven-day establishment, and to assess the lack of discipline and respect in the department.
Let me point out, from the outset, that these visits were only undertaken by ANC members of the portfolio committee. Not a single member of the other parties was part of the group. All of them submitted their apologies. You see, when we say that the opposition does not know what is going on in our prisons, then it is for you to decide whether it is true or not. Really, I wish that the opposition could have been part of these visits, for the simple reason of just needing to face the reality in our prisons.
It is a pity that when it comes to actual oversight, we lack a collective approach. Last week, during the announcement of special remission on sentences, some of the opposition parties opposed and criticised this remission. Had these parties joined us on these visits, they would have had no need to voice any opposition.
South African prisons are extremely overcrowded. In June 2004 there were 187 000 offenders in prisons, which only had the capacity to hold 113 000 offenders. That is why, as the ANC, we welcome the special remission on sentences. During our visits to these prisons in February 2005, we called on the Minister to use his power and release all those inmates who had already appeared before the parole board, and had their release dates.
The fact that the offender was given a release date indicated that the parole board no longer sees him/her as a danger or a threat to society, and in their view, the inmate has been rehabilitated.
Our observation is that there are too many youth and children in our prisons. Children don’t belong in prison. It is a priority issue for the committee to see to it that these children are placed in places of safety.
For the first time in the Department of Correctional Services and the portfolio committee, the staff in these correctional centres was able to interact and communicate with members of Parliament and the portfolio committee. Officials and management were free to raise questions, concerns, and recommendations to the committee. We spent two hours with staff in each of these prisons, responding to all questions and concerns.
We explained the concern of overtime and answered questions on moving from a five-day to a seven-day workweek. After each and every meeting, the officials were very happy and positive about the explanations. The committee clearly stated, with regard to the breakdown in discipline and respect that we can and will negotiate anything in the department, but when it comes to discipline and respect, no negotiations would take place.
Officials complained that it is not only they who need rehabilitation in discipline and respect, but managers also require lessons in discipline and respect. Some managers are poor examples of proper conduct, and don’t display any leadership qualities at all. Some managers are themselves without discipline and respect.
Let me also raise the concern regarding promotions mentioned by officials in the department. As the committee, we want to strongly urge the Minister to do something about this. We believe it is one way to motivate our officials. Staff morale appears to be bordering on the negative, and we would need to encourage and guide the staff in carrying out the daily duties.
In conclusion, the committee presents this report to the House, with the hope that the House will accept our report. We will follow up and monitor each and every recommendation contained in this report. I thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J SELFE: Madam Chair, at the beginning of June I went to the Embongweni CMax prison and the Voorberg Medium B prison, on a prison visit. Unfortunately it was not possible for the hon Bloem to be at that visit, and I assume for that reason that he is not interested in oversight of those particular prisons. [Interjections.]
It was unfortunately not possible for me to be part of this particular tour, and indeed there were several members of the ANC who were not part of that tour either, and I assume they are not interested in prison oversight either. [Applause.]
The report was debated and interrogated at length by the portfolio committee, and I would like to congratulate the chairperson for taking the initiative of arranging the visits, and for compiling the detailed report.
I have been involved in this committee on and off since 1994. This is the first time that the committee has visited prisons on a systematic basis. In fact, this report discloses a depressingly familiar pattern of overcrowded facilities, overworked staff, and underresourced management structures. These conditions exist in virtually all the facilities I have visited, and the Minister is all too aware of them from his own visits.
In the short time at our disposal today I want to highlight one aspect of this report. This aspect goes to the heart of the solution to overcrowding. The committee makes a number of recommendations about, amongst other things, alternative sentencing and the reluctance of magistrates to impose alternative sentences, particularly for petty offences.
Secondly, they recommend providing resources to the community corrections programme to enable alternative sentencing to work; speeding up parole processes and the release of those qualifying for parole; releasing awaiting-trial detainees with nominal bail, and those in prison because they cannot pay nominal fines, into the community correction system.
We support these steps, and indeed they should already have been taken. Had they been taken, it would not have been necessary for the Minister to resort to a remission policy or a prison burst, as he did last week, to relieve the very real problem of prison overcrowding. I accept that to do what the committee is proposing will require the active co-operation of other departments, notably Justice.
To state it bluntly, if magistrates and judges remain reluctant to impose alternative sentences to that of imprisonment, it may be necessary to regulate this by legislation. Other proposals such as increasing the scope and capacity of community corrections can be achieved by the Department of Correctional Services, and should be done. If the government does not take these steps we will sit with perpetually overcrowded prisons, which can only be ameliorated by prison bursts. In overcrowded prisons rehabilitation becomes a pipe dream, and control over inmates passes to the gangs and to corrupt officials.
Only very recently the Minister had to settle a court case with an inmate who had contracted HIV/Aids after having been sodomised in an overcrowded and poorly controlled facility. This case opens the possibility of a class action with huge legal and financial consequences to the state. We need to deal with the problem of overcrowding and with proper management of the prisons in order to avoid this.
I really hope the Cabinet reads this report. More than that, I hope that it acts on it. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, hon members, the hon Dennis Bloem is perfectly correct. The opposition parties weren’t present. As Mr Selfe said, many of their members weren’t present. It’s a pity that Mr Bloem doesn’t understand, perhaps, that the opposition parties have many other parliamentary obligations, and it was for this reason that I was unable to participate. [Interjections.]
But I would also commend the chairperson. He is very enthusiastic. He is very active and we thank him for that. Perhaps his members should also take note that many of us do visit other prisons, and are actively involved in Correctional Services all along the way.
There were, as has been mentioned, several objectives for the visit. The report deals with them all, and makes findings and recommendations in respect of each of those. Unfortunately, my time does not permit me to deal with all these issues.
I would like to deal with two of the issues. One of them is overcrowding, which is a serious problem throughout our prisons in South Africa. It has become the norm. The vast majority of the prisons visited were, in fact, overcrowded. Only two of them were not. The most overcrowded were Potchefstroom and Barberton. Potchefstroom is 222% overcrowded. That creates major problems and obviously has a tremendous effect on the conditions for staff as well.
The report acknowledges that the Department of Correctional Services cannot be held solely responsible for the issues revolving around overcrowding. We again appeal to the justice delivery system, the department of the SA Police Service, the Department of Justice and the Department of Social Development, to do their bit in their sectors to ensure that the overcrowding becomes something of the past.
Secondly, I would like just very briefly to deal with an issue of major concern to me, and that is the issue of juveniles in prison. This is something that we all find intolerable. It is something that we do not feel should be happening. We believe that youth should be transferred to prisons within the areas in which they live so that they can communicate with their own families and their chances of rehabilitation will be greater.
The department should explore the feasibility of establishing a youth correctional service centre in the Northern Cape to ensure that these young offenders can be closer to their families. Of course, both the Correctional Services Act and the South African Schools Act provide for compulsory schooling for all juveniles of school-going age. Sadly, this is something that really needs far more attention. I would ask the Minister to really come in on this one and see to it that our youngsters today, especially the awaiting-trial detainees, do get the education they should have and deserve. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP believes that severe prison overcrowding and deplorable health conditions must continually be addressed. It is therefore correct and fitting that members visit prisons to ascertain for themselves what conditions are like in prisons. I also wish to commend the chairperson, hon Bloem, for his unceasing interest, care and compassion for those in prison.
It is significant that the report states that inadequate intersectoral communication exists between various departments in the criminal justice sector, which results in various problems highlighted in the report. The most noteworthy of those, of course, is overcrowding.
Certain recommendations are made in order to ensure adequate intersectoral communication, and the ACDP supports that. Additionally, the ACDP supports an integrated approach whereby the four key government departments, namely, Safety and Security, Justice, Correctional Services and Social Development take responsibility for the success of the system by means of binding interdepartmental protocols. Such protocols would serve to enhance and strengthen the existing integrated justice system court centres.
These departments should be required to sign binding protocols that incorporate possible financial sanctions to reduce delays, and in so doing, reduce overcrowding in prisons. [Time expired.] I thank you. Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, to the majority of those who follow debates on correctional services, members of Parliament serving in this portfolio committee may sometimes sound like a broken record player. Time and again, they state and argue about the issue of overcrowding whereas the actual improvement of the situation in the prison is of lesser impact. We will not stop until a workable solution has been found.
The committee’s visit to prisons in the North West and Mpumalanga provinces has yet again highlighted the growing and highly problematic issues. Of the 10 prisons visited, Potchefstroom correctional centre had the highest inmate percentage at 222,3%. Other prisons’ intake capacity varied between 191% and 124%.
Minister, the strategy of creating uneven inmate occupation levels across prisons by transferring inmates from overcrowded centres to less overcrowded ones is commendable. However, this strategy has its own shortcomings. The overwhelming evidence points to the fact that, as our country’s population grows, so too does our prison population. This condition is a stark reminder of the fact that we need to be much more innovative in addressing overcrowding in prisons.
. . . mme re ntse re tsaa-tsia gore bothata jwa go tlalaphetelela ga dikgolegelo, ke maikarabelo a Lefapha la Dikgopololommogo le mafapha a mangwe go tshwana le Lefapha la Bosiamisi. Re ikuela go mafapha a go tsaa karolo e e bonagalang gore re kgone go fedisa bothata jo. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[ . . . and we still take into account that the overflowing prison problem is the responsibility of the Department of Correctional Services and other departments like the Department of Justice. We are appealing to these departments to play a meaningful role in dealing with this problem.]
Communication around the amendment of the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977, particularly section 63A which allows for the amendment of bail conditions of certain prisoners, and some circumstances which may lead to the deletion of the requirement of bail and substitutions for the provision that they be placed under correctional supervision, in terms of section 62F of the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977, seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Effective rehabilitation programmes can be ensured under the conditions of an improved staff-inmates ratio. An improved staff-inmates ratio has the potential to improve the health and security situation of both inmates and staff.
At this point, let me remind the House of the main objective of the rehabilitation programme. Its main objective is to increase the knowledge and skills of prisoners, and make them productive and law-abiding citizens. If we can rehabilitate prisoners, it means they will be less inclined to fall back into a life of crime. This will also enable us to reduce the rate of re-offending. A reduction in re-offending rates will in turn lead to lower levels of crime and, hence, a lower prison population.
At this point, an urgent request is made to the department for clarification around the progress that has been made as to the status of its changeover from a five-day to a seven-day establishment. However, we acknowledge the collective decision undertaken by all stakeholders in implementing the shift from a five to seven-day establishment.
Re le komiti, re tshwenyegile thata ka dipalopalo tse di kwa godimo tsa baša mo dikgolegelong. Re dumela fa baša ba sa tshwanela go nna mo dikgolegelong jaaka re lebeletse go le gontsi go tswa mo go bona. Re batla go dira boikuelo go baagi jwa Aforika Borwa go re ema nokeng jaaka Motswana a bua a re: Kgetse ya tsie e kgonwa ke go tshwaraganelwa. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[As the committee, we are very concerned about youth statistics in prisons. We believe that youths are not supposed to be in prisons, because we are expecting a lot from them. We would like to appeal to the South African community to support us, for as the Motswana say: Unity is strength.]
The portfolio committee has committed itself to remain focused on juveniles in our prisons. Our programme will ensure that we are briefed regularly by the department on the status of youth and children in our prisons.
We regret the statement made by the apartheid beneficiary, hon Selfe, last week when he said that they applauded the ANC for tearing down the trade unions. We want him to note that our alliance with Popcru in particular and Cosatu in general is steeped in the blood of martyrs.
Our visit to these prisons has afforded all of us an opportunity to understand and appreciate the workings of our correctional services. It is a mammoth task to ensure that the daily wheels of justice grind effectively, but we recognise the enormous challenges. The department is committed to working with stakeholders to resolve issues of correctional concern. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, in view of this report, the MF upholds the constitutional rights awarded to prisoners in our democracy. The MF grieves and feels for all those who fell victim to these offences.
We further acknowledge the imbalances caused to society by these offenders and salute the long arm of our law for returning the balance to society through justice. We all want justice but, more so, we want to stamp out crime. We want to feel safe in the country we call home. Our brothers and sisters who have been tempted into committing crime: Be deterred, reform and prevent crime, and do not create it.
The MF calls on South African citizens to take responsibility for our nation and assist government in preventing, deterring and rehabilitating crime and criminals. The MF supports the recommendations in this report, but more importantly, we would like to see empty prisons.
At this point, I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the chairperson, the hon Bloem, and the Minister for their interest in this matter. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M S MOATSHE: Chairperson, Minister, members of the opposition serving on this portfolio committee need rehabilitation. They seem not to know their work. They are truant and do not attend to their oversight work. Perhaps they should be rehabilitated and reminded of what is important. These people enjoyed the privileges that apartheid had to offer them prior to
- They said nothing about overcrowding. We have taught them about overcrowding and human rights. They never knew that people had to have human rights.
Our visit from 26 January to 4 February 2005 to the North West and Mpumalanga provinces left us with a much deeper sense of appreciation of the officials of correctional centres, a deeper concern about the living conditions of inmates and a sense of urgency about the challenges we face in correctional services.
In line with the Vienna Declaration on Crime and Justice, the Department of Correctional Services has embraced the restorative justice approach aimed at reducing crime and promoting healing between victims of crime and offenders with the aim of bringing about restitution and reparation.
The Freedom Charter says that, All shall enjoy equal human rights’’. It
further states that,There shall be peace and friendship’’. The
opposition said that the Freedom Charter was an old document yet you forget
that the certificate of your date of birth is also an old document!
In fact, this party changes its name every time it loses an election. First it was the Progressive Party, and when it got a new leadership it became the Progressive Reform Party. When it lost the elections, it became the Democratic Party. When it lost the elections again, it became the Democratic Alliance. Last year it nearly changed to become the Democratic Coalition but there was no leadership to take over there! [Laughter.]
Our findings have been that overcrowding is a major challenge to rehabilitation. This also creates fertile grounds for corruption among inmates, inmates and ill-disciplined, greedy officials, and inmates and disloyal members of the community.
It is clear that no inmate has access to drugs and weapons except through Correctional Services Officials and members of the community. However, the department with its strategy on security is making progress in controlling these criminal activities. Rehabilitation programmes are being implemented, irrespective of the difficult conditions caused by overcrowding, staff shortages and a lack of proper classrooms.
Some of the services delivered are adult basic education, mainstream education and arts and culture programmes. In Mogwasi, inmates manufacture tracksuits tops that are distributed throughout various correctional centres. In Witbank, inmates manufacture shoes and these are distributed throughout the country’s correctional centres. There are other products from various centres around the country that are manufactured by inmates. Women in Ermelo produce a variety of clothing including men’s suits and wedding dresses. This is part of rehabilitation.
The Minister said that he is driving a big truck. I want to challenge everyone to climb onto this big truck. The problem of overcrowding should not only be the Minister’s or the department’s problem, but should be the community’s problem as well. The challenge for all of us and the community at large, including those on my left-hand side, should be to ask: What do we do with all this talent after the inmates have been released? What do we do to ensure that inmates will be integrated into the free world without any frustrations? How will we ensure that the skills acquired are properly and profitably utilised, and ensure that released inmates do not once again find themselves in conflict with the law? Some people enjoy to see people in jail. But those people will have to climb this truck, which is for everybody.
There are good choirs that can compete anywhere in the world, and are found in almost all correctional centres. These cultural groups are an indication that rehabilitation is progressing well and that warm reconciliatory hearts can embrace them. We urge the cluster of safety and security to seriously look into the incarceration of minors who committed crimes such as stealing chocolates in a supermarket and were fined R1 000, which they cannot afford. One minor in Nelspruit was sentenced to six months for stealing a reed of sugar cane and fined R500. It is also alleged that the magistrate in Witbank sentences only black children. These allegations need to be investigated as, on arrival in Witbank, we personally saw white officials sitting separately, away from blacks. We raised this matter as we were addressing staff, but we cannot guarantee whether there was a change after we left.
Mathata a mangwe a Kgoro ya Dikgolegelo e rakanang le ona ke batshwarwa ba ba emetseng go sekiswa. Badula se baka se setelele ba emetse go tlhagelela fa pele ga kgotla. Bangwe ba bona ba nna sebaka go feta dingwaga tse tlhano ba sa sekisiwe. Re kopane le bona kwa Potchestroom, Mogwase le dikgolegelo tsotlhe tse di nang le batshwarwa ba ba emetseng go tlhagelela kwa kgotla.
Re kopa gore go potlakiswe tshekiso le dipatlisiso go batshwarwa botlhe. Bangwe ba batshwarwa ba, ba kotsi e bile ga go kgonagale gore ba ka rutwa tsela ya go ikoba. Bangwe ba nna sebaka se setelele ka ntlha ya go tlhoka madi a beili gonne a gagamatswa gore ba se kgone go a fitlhelela.
Kwa bofelong, ke tlotlomatsa le go kgotatsa badiredi ba kgolego bao ba tsayang matsapa a go tlisa diphetogo mo matshelong a bagolegwa. Ke lebisa ditebogo go rre Nnalebotse Rolly Tshilwane, yo o diretseng Lefapha la Dikgolego dingwaga di le 38 kwa ntle ga go tsaya matsatsi a boikhutso go akaretsa le malatsi a bolwetse (Sick leave). Go utlwagala gore mo dingwageng di le 38, ga a ise a fitlhe thari kwa tirong. Maikhutso a gagwe e nnile a a tlwaelegileng a ngwaga le ngwaga le a selegae. (Family responsibility leave)
Rre Tshilwane o diretse lefapha ka manontlhotlho. Jaanong ke mongwe wa bagolo ba kgolegelo ya Witbank. Rare go ena, rre Tshilwane, tshwara thata. O motlhala go badirammogo. Nko mogala tshwara thata e sere o utlwa sebodu wa kgaoga.
Ke fetsa ka go leboga Tona Ngconde Balfour le Lefapha la Dikgopololo ka kutlwelobotlhoko eo a e bontshitseng ka go fokatsa dikgwedi tsa batshwarwa, segolo bana, bagodi, balwetse le bomme. [Nako e Fedile.] [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)
[The other problem facing the Department of Correctional Services is that of inmates awaiting trial. They wait for long periods before they appear in court. Some of them stay in prison for longer than five years without trial. We met them in Potchefstroom, Mogwase and in all other prisons that have inmates who are to appear in court.
We are making an appeal that the investigations and prosecutions of all inmates be sped up. Some of these inmates are dangerous and it will not be easy to rehabilitate them. Some of them stay on for longer periods awaiting trial because they cannot afford bail.
In conclusion, I would like to praise and encourage prison warders who make efforts to bring about changes in the lives of inmates. I would like to convey my thanks to Mr Nnalebotse Rolly Tshilwane, who served the Department of Correctional Services for 38 years without taking vacation or sick leave. I learned that during the 38 years of his service, he never arrived late. He took leave like anybody does during normal holiday seasons.
Mr Tshilwane served the department with diligence. He is now one of the senior warders at Witbank prison. We would like to encourage him to keep up the good work he is doing, as he is an example to his colleagues. I would also like to thank the Minister of Correctional Services, Ngconde Balfour, for being sympathetic towards inmates and reducing their sentence periods by months; especially those of children, pensioners, patients and women.[Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Another problem that the Department of Correctional Services is faced with is awaiting trial prisoners. They wait for long periods to appear before courts. Others remain in prison for up to five years without getting a chance to appear in court. We met these prisoners at Mogwasi, Potchestroom and other prisons, which have awaiting trial prisoners. Others remain in prison because they do not have bail money.
In conclusion, I would like to honour and encourage prison warders who take every effort to change people’s lives.
We make an appeal that the investigations and prosecutions should take place soon. Some of these prisoners are dangerous and they cannot be rehabilitated.
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, first of all, I want to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee. The report that the portfolio committee is tabling today is a report of their visits to these different centres, and I really appreciate the oversight responsibility that’s being done by the portfolio committee, with the chairperson leading them. Staff members in all the correctional centres are really appreciative of the visit, and the offenders that I met appreciate those kinds of visit because they are able to have an outlet to raise some of the issues that are challenges to them.
I also want to emphasise the point that I have read the report, Mr Selfe. I will make sure that departmental managers all over the country, in all the 243 centres, clearly read this. I will also submit this report to the JCPS cluster of Ministers, because that is where we meet as a cluster and they will definitely take note of this report.
A number of concerns have been raised, particularly around this report, on the issue of overcrowding. Those are concerns which we are addressing.
We are dealing with them every day. I keep on pushing my managers to deal with these issues, particularly when we deal with awaiting-trial detainees, those who have been there for a long time because of delays within the justice system, investigating teams and the police investigators, as well as courts and magistrate’s courts which do not sit as regularly as they should. The provisions of 62F and 63 of the Criminal Procedures Act are constantly being utilised by my managers in all these centres to try and deal with those people who have bail set at less than R1 000.
There are quite a number of them, and with chairperson of the Justice and Constitutional Development Portfolio Committee being here with us, I do hope that a joint session of those committees will get together and try to help us. We need help. So, Mr Selfe, we are dealing with those things.
On the issue of gangs and corrupt officials, we are dealing with that every day in our department. All I can say to you is that when you live in a glasshouse, don’t throw stones. When you live in a glasshouse, don’t throw stones; they may hurt you!
Mama Sybil Seaton, thank you very much for the humane approach that you always take. It is the approach where we say correction and rehabilitation is a societal responsibility. It is not a responsibility only for us. Families of these people have got to assist us. Societies and communities where they live have got to assist us. But also, the approach of looking at the minors and the juveniles within our centres is a very humane approach. I do hope that the families and the parents of those juveniles and minors listen to some of these debates and take care.
The approach is integrated and there will be protocols signed between ourselves - that is Correctional Services, Safety and Security as well as Justice on these issues. We will have a protocol that we will look at.
We do transfer prisoners time and again, from one prison to the other so that we can alleviate the overcrowding in some of our correctional centres.
On the issue of restorative justice, yes, we deal with that all the time. As a rehabilitating tool, we use all kinds of programme as Ntate Moatshe has said very clearly. On the arts and culture front, we’ve got choirs and bands. We’ve got groups that do isichathamia within our centres. We are trying our best to make sure that the youngsters are kept busy doing something. Education is part of that, but we’ve also introduced sport as part of rehabilitation, and it’s doing very well. Woodwork, agriculture as well as a lot of steel works within correctional services are all part of what we are doing.
Let me very quickly now just address myself to one thing. Again, I want to thank the portfolio committee for the support, Chairperson, on the remissions that we are dealing with. The remissions that we are dealing with are not about overcrowding. I’m saying it for the second time, and I’m praying that Mr Selfe understands this. It’s a humane approach that this government is taking. It’s not about overcrowding, but it will definitely impact on the overcrowding. As long as you can understand it in that sense, Mr. Selfe, you can understand it better. But for now, you don’t seem to understand it.
I want to thank the portfolio committee for the encouragement and for the support. I also want to welcome the voices of Archbishop Njongonkulu Ndungane and the SA Council of Churches that have come out in support of this humane approach to our prisoners in the country. We are talking here about statutory issues: little, little things that people have done, stealing mangoes, theft and everything, but not high-risk offenders. We also thank the NGOs who work with us in correctional services, who have come out also in support and who are helping the department in dealing with the integration of these offenders.
To the victims of crime, because that’s what has been asked, all I want to say to them, particularly to those offenders who will be released, there will be those people that they have offended. All I’m saying to them is: Please, from us as a government, please understand it and please forgive them for the offences that they have committed. Do not forget those offences, and the people they have offended, but please understand that it’s part of the rehabilitation process that we want to integrate them into society. Also, don’t push them to the limit. Allow them space to be able to regain their humanity, so that they can rejoin human communities all over the place. That is all that we are saying to them.
The last thing is that the remissions will definitely assist us. Let me touch on this promotion policy that you have spoken about. We will deal with assessment of our members. We’ve got good members in Correctional Services, not all our members are bad. There are those who are bad, but the bulk of our members are good members. I visited close to 201 prisons around the country since my appointment. I’m left with about 40 and I’ll be finishing those 40 in June and July, because I want to actually know what is going on. I do unannounced visits in prisons on weekends, Ntate Mlangeni. Happy birthday, Sithwala Ndwe! On weekends, mostly, I drive myself to these centres, because I want to see unannounced what is going on and be able to assist the members, not to catch them. That’s not my style. It’s not to catch them but to try and assist them in the work that they do.
I take my hat off to all of them around the country, those that I have visited. They really are doing a good job. There will be those who fall foul of the law and we deal with those. But the bulk of them are good men and good women.
We’ve got young stars coming out of the two colleges, Kroonstad and Zonderwater. They come from two detachments. I gave the names - one is a detachment in Kroonstad and one is a detachment in Zonderwater. And every time I go to correctional centres to meet with them, I find that most of them are young ladies of 18, 19 and 20, because we are trying to balance the gender issue within correctional services. And I really appreciate seeing them wearing that uniform that the head of my Ministry, Mr Vusi Nhlapo, is wearing sitting over there. It’s a lovely uniform when you look at it. We really appreciate the work that they do, and we hope that they will be able to learn a lot of things from what we do.
Again, I’m saying, lastly, to those who are going to get released, please do not let yourselves down. Do not let yourselves down. This is the second chance you are being given, use it, and use it productively. Thank you very much [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Mr L J MODISENYANE: I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party that the report be adopted subject to the following amendment, namely that all recommendations in the Report that require either the Minister, Department or an official to report directly to the committee should be amended to read ``that the reports concerned should be submitted to the House, the timeframes indicated in the Report to apply from the date of its adoption.’’
Motion agreed to.
Report, as amended, accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — OVERSIGHT VISIT TO LINDELANI PLACE OF SAFETY IN STELLENBOSCH
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — VISIT TO BONNYTOUN
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — VISIT TO POLLSMOOR JUVENILE DETENTION CENTRES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — SOLUTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO PRISON OVERCROWDING
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — TWO FIRE INCIDENTS AT POLLSMOOR MANAGEMENT AREA, WHICH LED TO THE DEATH OF SIX INMATES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES — VISIT TO PRETORIA FOLLOWING A BREACH AT PRETORIA CLOSE MAXIMUM SECURITY (CMAX) CENTRE
Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you, Chairperson. Minister, let me tell you the good news. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committees on Justice and Constitutional Affairs is fully on board. She is also very worried. She is busy with all the other matters that are going on.
This will take two minutes. Mr Selfe, the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, …
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Selfe.
Mr D V BLOEM: … after having visited many prisons and places of safety in the country, would like to introduce the following reports for its consideration.
The problem of overcrowding is a man-made one. Last week the DA and the ACDP criticized the announcement of special remissions, saying that the Minister is releasing sentenced inmates, thereby undermining the decisions and hard work of magistrates. They said that the problem of overcrowding is not caused by the sentenced inmates, but by the awaiting-trial prisoners. I want to take this opportunity to explain to the DA and the ACDP and other people who have problems with this …
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, on a point of order …
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, will you take your seat, please?
Mr M J ELLIS: As far as I am aware, we are addressing a series of reports from the portfolio committee, and the point that Mr Bloem is making now has got nothing to do with those reports at all. It is a gross abuse of the occasion, quite frankly. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, will you please confine yourself to the report.
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, we are dealing with a report that deals with overcrowding in prisons. That is why I am raising these issues in my report. I will come . . . [Interjections]. . . . and then you can object.
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, there is a kind of convention, certainly amongst the Whips, that if a chairperson is going to make a speech that is actually contrary to the report itself, other parties will have the right to reply.
What Mr Bloem is doing now is abusing the occasion completely, because no other party is going to have the opportunity to reply to this debate. I urge you to make sure that he sticks to the topic.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, will you please take that into consideration.
Mr D V BLOEM: We as the ANC are clear on awaiting-trial prisoners in our prisons. Everybody knows our standpoint is that people are sitting for too long in prisons, awaiting trial.
We are not mixing issues. The reason for me saying that overcrowding is a man-made issue is that there are people in prison who are not supposed to be there. On our prison visits, we found people sentenced for petty crimes. For example, one woman in Thohoyandou Prison is sitting there for stealing perfume to the value of R16. She has been in prison for four months because she could not pay a R2 000 fine.
One person is there for calling somebody a lizard. Another person is there because they called somebody a witch. I spoke to a woman sentenced to 30 days in prison or a R500 fine for stealing a bar of Sunlight Soap to the value of R3,50. We want to commend the President on the granting of the special remission, especially with regard to children, youth, women, women with babies, the aged and the disabled.
However, I feel that the security cluster must review all cases of women who are in prison for murdering their abusive husbands. Innocent children are suffering due to the incarceration of their mothers, many of whom were driven to this violent act.
I want to make it very clear that the ANC will never support crime. We condemn it very strongly. What I am saying is that it is not necessary for petty offenders to be sent to prison . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, hon Bloem!
Mr M J ELLIS: I wonder if the hon Bloem would . . .
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): One moment, please. Please take your seat, hon Bloem.
Mr M J ELLIS: I wonder if the hon Bloem would explain to us which report he is talking about now, because none of the reports before us actually deal with any of the matters that he is raising now. [Interjections.] He is going on in a long, lengthy debate about nothing at all that is related to these matters.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, I am not able to judge on the content of the reports before you, but you are able to do so. So, please, if the request is reasonable, will you please confine yourself to the reports at hand?
Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, on another point of order: I do believe the chairperson, here, is representing the portfolio committee and not the ANC.
Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you very much. I am a member of the ANC and I will speak here on behalf of the ANC. [Interjections.]
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, …
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, please take your seat.
Mr M J ELLIS: The Rules make it absolutely clear that the chairperson can report on behalf of the committee. It does not say anything about reporting on behalf of a political party. Hon Seaton is 100% correct: He has got to report purely as the chairperson of the committee. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bloem, before you continue, please, we’ve had several sustainable objections. I have requested you very kindly to please return to the subject matter of the reports before us, and to act on them in your role as chairperson of the committee, and not on behalf of the party. Thank you.
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I see that they took some of my time. In tabling these reports, the committee has identified all problems at these facilities, and makes strong recommendations in this regard.
However, we want to stress that, as a committee, we strongly feel that no children should be kept in prison, and that there need to be more alternative facilities such as Lindelani and Bonnytoun for children who are in conflict with the law.
One of the reports before this House deals with two incidents of fire in the Pollsmoor Management Area, which led to the death of six inmates. During the committee investigation, it became clear that the role of prison gangs played a major role in these two incidents. The portfolio committee has recommended that the Department of Correctional Services should take strong action to address the problem of prison gangs.
The report on the Pretoria Close Maximum Security Centre deals with a tragic incident at the CMAX centre in which four people died, including two senior correctional officials. It is quite clear that corrupt officials were involved in this incident. In this report the committee recommends that the department take strong disciplinary action against all those implicated, including prosecution if necessary.
The committee was informed today in a briefing by the Special Investigating Unit and the Department of Correctional Services, on the measures that are being taken to stamp out corruption, and commends them on these actions.
In conclusion, the portfolio committee presents these reports to the House, and encourages all members of Parliament to read and engage with these reports. Every report contains clear timeframes for implementation of the recommendations by the department. The committee will follow up on the implementation of the recommendations made within these reports. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Chairperson, I have a note here. This note was sent to me by Mr Mike Ellis, who said that I am the third force here in Parliament. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order!
Mr D V BLOEM: I don’t know whether I am the third force …
Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, …
Mr D V BLOEM: … but if I am the third force, he is the tsunami of this Parliament!
Mr M J ELLIS: Thank you very much. I will take that as a compliment!
Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you, thank you, thank you! [Laughter.]
There was no debate.
Mr L J MODISENYANE: Madam Chair, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move that the reports be adopted, but that the report under Order No 7 on the Order Paper - relating to the two fire incidents at Pollsmoor Management Area, which led to the death of six inmates - be adopted subject to the following amendment, namely that all recommendations in the report that require certain steps to be taken in favour of or against certain officials should be amended to reflect that the department is being requested to consider taking the indicated steps.
Motion agreed to.
Report on Oversight Visit to Lindelani Place of Safety in Stellenbosch accordingly adopted.
Report on Visit to Bonnytoun accordingly adopted.
Report on Visit to Pollsmoor Juvenile Detention Centres accordingly adopted.
Report on Solutions and Recommendations to Prison Overcrowding accordingly adopted.
Report on Two Fire Incidents at Pollsmoor Management Area, which led to the death of six inmates, as amended, accordingly adopted.
Report on Visit to Pretoria following a breach at Pretoria Close Maximum Security (CMAX) Centre accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT – MAGISTRATE P P MKALIPI
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT – MAGISTRATE P W PHIRI
Ms F I CHOHAN-KOTA: Hon Bloem, I am told that we are supposed to address
people as hon tsunami’’ in this House, and not justtsunami’’.
It is important to note that this is the first time that Parliament has sought to implement the removal proceedings contained in the Magistrates Act of 1993, not that there has never been cause to do so previously, but that the procedures required by the Magistrates Act were simply too cumbersome and complicated, and have consistently been incorrectly applied.
The portfolio committee, in 2003, amended some of the provisions of that Act in order to ensure that, at the very least, the principles of natural justice found in our Constitution were incorporated into this pre-democracy Act.
This having been done, it has made it possible for Parliament to play its rightful role in regard to errant behaviour on the part of certain magistrates. We hope that by so doing, we shall serve to restore dignity and respect to the institution of our lower court judiciary.
It must be reiterated that the provisions of the Act remain impractical and in need of simplification and streamlining. This we hope to do in the near future through inter alia the Judicial Conduct Tribunal Bills that the committee has sponsored.
I believe it is important to outline in some measure of detail, since this is the first occasion that Parliament has had to deal with these procedures, the procedures adopted by the committee in arriving at its recommendations today.
In terms of section 13(4)(c) of the Magistrates Act of 1993, Parliament must, as soon as reasonably possible, pass the resolution as to whether or not the restoration to his or her office of a magistrate who has been suspended from office is recommended.
We opted, in the interest of promoting respect for the judiciary as a whole, to invoke rule 152(1)(b), which allowed proceedings and committees to be closed to the public. This was an unusual experience for the committee. As you are aware, Chairperson, the committee very seldom has resorted to invoking this rule, but we are of the view that this extraordinary step was necessary to protect the image of the institution of the magistracy.
The majority of our magistrates remain very hardworking, diligent, professional people, and I want to emphasis this. Since the Act stipulates that Parliament must pass a resolution of this nature, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, and the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs took joint briefings on the two reports tabled by the Minister.
The magistrates implicated were afforded the opportunity to present written representations to the committees sitting jointly, and where such representations were made, these were considered. The two committees however proceeded to pass the resolutions sitting separately.
The process in Parliament was not meant to overshadow or duplicate the investigation and inquiry held at the level of the Magistrates Commission. While regard was had to the relevant law and regulations, an assessment was made of the adherence to procedural correctness. The parliamentary process cannot be said to be a simple review procedure. We have also considered the merits on which the recommendations of the Magistrates Commission were based. This was done without endeavouring, in any way, to detract from the integrity accorded to a hearing of oral evidence, as was embarked on in each case separately by the Magistrates Commission.
In neither of these cases before us today was there any evidence or factor that indicated that Mr P W Phiri or Mr P Mkhalipi should be restored to the office of magistrate. In both these matters, having considered the procedures followed by both the Magistrates Commission and the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development as well as the substantive factors on which the Magistrates Commission’s recommendations were based, the committee found as follows: In the case of Mr P W Phiri, the committee noted that the report and the documents submitted in terms of the relevant regulations bear ample evidence that Mr Phiri is incapable of carrying out the duties of his office efficiently. Mr Phiri repeatedly failed to send reviewable cases to the High Court timeously; repeatedly failed to respond to various queries by reviewing judges, resulting in failures of justice and causing severe prejudice to the accused persons concerned.
He pleaded guilty to three charges of misconduct in this respect. His performance on the bench revealed numerous serious and profound irregularities. Numerous cases over which Mr Phiri presided had to be sent on special review, and serious procedural irregularities were detected.
Individual and formal training guidance and counselling failed to achieve the desired effect, and Mr Phiri repeatedly made the same mistakes, and failed to adhere to time limits. The portfolio committee is of the opinion that there is no reason why the recommendation of the Magistrates Commission, namely that Mr Phiri should be removed from the office of magistrate should not be followed, and accordingly recommends that the House resolve that Mr Phiri not be restored to the office of magistrate.
In the case of Mr P Mkalipi, the portfolio committee noted that the report and documents submitted in terms of the relevant regulations bear ample evidence that Mr Mkalipi is incapable of carrying out the duties of his office efficiently. There are numerous instances where case records kept by Mr Mkalipi were incomplete and/or reflect gross irregularities.
Uncontested evidence exists that he committed gross procedural irregularities on numerous occasions, and that he failed to furnish reasons for convictions and sentences on review or appeal, in certain instances. Other uncontested evidence relates to nonobservance of official hours; lack of discipline; inadequate knowledge of civil adjudication, and being inebriated while on official duty.
The portfolio committee feels that there is no reason why the recommendation by the Magistrates Commission, namely, that Mr Mkalipi should be removed from the office of magistrate should not be followed, and accordingly, recommends that the House resolves that Mr Mkalipi not be restored to the office of magistrate. Chairperson, I present the report. Thank you.
There was no debate.
Question put: That the recommendations of the Committee be adopted, namely that the magistrates in question not be restored to the office of magistrate.
Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – VOTE NO 20 – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
There was no debate.
Mr L J MODISENYANE: Chair, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party that the report be adopted.
Mr M J ELLIS: On behalf of the Chief Whip of the Opposition, I am prepared to second that motion.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (C-S Botha): Thank you very much for your kind indulgence, hon Deputy Whip.
Motion agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF FIRST REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - UNSIGNED AUDIT REPORTS
CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
CONSIDERATION OF THIRD REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - APAC CONFERENCE
CONSIDERATION OF FOURTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - COMPETITION COMMISSION
CONSIDERATION OF FIFTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - SOUTH AFRICAN RESERVE BANK
CONSIDERATION OF SIXTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - INDEPENDENT DEVELOPMENT TRUST
CONSIDERATION OF SEVENTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ACCOUNTS - NATIONAL LOTTERIES BOARD
CONSIDERATION OF EIGHTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
Mr V G SMITH: Chairperson, comrades, hon members, in presenting the Standing Committee on Public Accounts’ reports to the House for consideration and adoption, we thought it might be important to highlight a few shortcomings in so far as management of resources within departments are concerned.
The Department of Correctional Services and the Department of Public Works have had qualified reports for the past three financial years. In the audit of Correctional Services, the Auditor-General could not verify the validity and accuracy of expenditure totalling R630 million, and R681 million last year. Internal controls related to areas of leave application and information technology controls were not at an acceptable level of implementation.
In the case of Public Works, a figure of R35 million could not be verified due to lack of supporting documents. Debtors control, asset management and fixed property management are some of the areas that the committee feels are of serious concern.
The Auditor-General’s report on the Competition Commission, South African Reserve Bank, the National Lotteries Board and the Independent Development Trust were all unqualified. Scopa is satisfied with the management of public resources in these institutions.
The Standing Committee on Public Accounts’ resolution on unsigned audit reports raised a concern that annual reports of certain parastatals and other state institutions contained unsigned audit reports. We are of the view that, in future, such reports should be rejected.
Finally, we submit the report on the Association of Public Accounts Committee Conference for the consideration of this House. Thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Mr L J MODISENYANE: Madam Chair, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move that the reports be adopted.
Motion agreed to. Reports accordingly adopted.
The House adjourned at 17:26. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 3 JUNE 2005
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry
(a) Government Notice No 323 published in Government Gazette No 27434 dated 8 April 2005: Establishment of the Spruit River Water User Association, Division of Wellington, Province of the Western Cape, Water Management Area Number 19 in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(b) Government Notice No 324 published in Government Gazette No 27434 dated 8 April 2005: Establishment of the uPhongolo Dam Water User Association, Magisterial Districts of Ingwavuma, Ubombo, Ngotshe and Piet Retief, KwaZulu-Natal Province, Water Management Area Number 6 in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998)
(c) Government Notice No 458 published in Government Gazette No 27579 dated 20 May 2005: Establishment of the Houdenbeks River Water User Association, Division of Ceres, Province of the Western Cape, Water Management Area Number 17 in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(d) Government Notice No 482 published in Government Gazette No 27459 dated 20 May 2005: Proposal for the Establishment of the Thukela Catchment Management Agency in terms of section 78(3) of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(e) Government Notice No 483 published in Government Gazette No 27604 dated 20 May 2005: Proposal for the Establishment of the Usutu to Mhlathuze Catchment Management Agency in terms of section 78(3) of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(f) Government Notice No 484 published in Government Gazette No 27604 dated 20 May 2005: Establishment of the Mvoti to Mzimkulu Catchment Management Agency (Water Management Area Number 11) in the Province of KwaZulu-Natal in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
National Assembly
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The Speaker
The Acting President of the Republic submitted the following letter dated 1 June 2005 to the Speaker of the National Assembly informing Members of the National Assembly of the employment of the South African National Defence Force in Botswana:
EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE IN BOTSWANA IN FULFILLMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
This serves to inform the National Assembly that I authorised the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) personnel to Botswana, for service in fulfillment of the international obligations of the Republic of South Africa, to participate in a Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) Joint Peacekeeping Training Exercise.
This employment was authorised in accordance with the provisions of section 201(2)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996), read with section 93 of the Defence Act, 2002 (Act No 42 of 2002).
A total of 326 members of the SANDF will be employed from 02 June 2005 to 28 June 2005.
The total estimated cost to be borne by South Africa for the deployment of personnel will be R5 781 420,00.
I will communicate this report to the members of the National Council of Provinces and wish to request that you bring the contents hereof to the notice of the National Assembly.
signed T A MANUEL ACTING PRESIDENT
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly
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Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Close Corporations Amendment Bill [B 6 - 2005] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 1 June 2005:
The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the subject of the Close Corporations Amendment Bill [B 6 - 2005] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 6A - 2005].
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Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration on the Reports of the Public Service Commission, dated 3 June 2005:
The Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, having considered the Reports of the Public Service Commission on:
- The Investigation into the Management of Discipline in the Public Service, October 2003;
- Remunerative Work Outside the Public Service: An Investigation Undertaken in the Gauteng Provincial Health Sector, 2004; and
- The Management of the Subsidised Motor Transport Scheme, July 2004.
Reports as follows:
- On the Report on the Investigation into the Management of Discipline in the Public Service, the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration recommends that the recommendations contained in the report should be acceded to and that their implementation should be monitored and evaluated.
- On Remunerative Work outside the Public Service; An investigation Undertaken in the Gauteng Provincial Health Sector, the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration notes the recommendations made by the Public Service Commission and recommends that the recommendations should be acceded to.
- On the Report on the Management of the Subsidised Motor Transport Scheme, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration recommends that the recommendations contained in the Report should be acceded to and that compliance with the recommendations be monitored rigorously.
Furthermore, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration notes that the Public Service Commission has done sterling work and discharged its mandate in terms of the law.
TUESDAY, 7 JUNE 2005
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Introduction of Bills
(1) The Minister of Trade and Industry
(i) National Credit Bill [B 18 – 2005] (National Assembly –
sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
introduction published in Government Gazette No 27529 of 26
April 2005.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and
Industry of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the
Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint
Rule 160, on 8 June 2005.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
-
Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1) Genetically Modified Organisms Amendment Bill, 2005, submitted by the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs on 1 May 2005. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs.
(2) Patents Amendment Bill, 2005, submitted by the Minister of Trade and Industry on 31 May 2005. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Education
(a) Government Notice No 488 published in Government Gazette No 27607 dated 24 May 2005: The development of a policy for the Further Education and Training Certificate (FETC) Grade 10 –12 (General) – Call for written submissions from stakeholder bodies and members of the public in terms of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996) and the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(b) Government Notice No 469 published in Government Gazette No 27594 dated 17 May 2005: National policy regarding further education and training programmes: Approval of additional subjects to be listed in the National Curriculum Statement, Grades 10 – 12 (General) in terms of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996) and the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(c) Government Notice No 468 published in Government Gazette No 27593 dated 17 May 2005: National Policy regarding further education and training programmes: Approval for the offering of the Associated Board of Royal Schools of Music (ABRSM): Music programmes, Grades 6 and 7 as senior certificate subjects in terms of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1998) and the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
National Assembly
-
The Speaker
Report of Delegation to 9th Session of African, Caribbean, Pacific- European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly, Bamako, Mali, 16-21 April 2005.
The 9th Session of the African, Caribbean, Pacific-European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly (ACP-EU JPA) met in Bamako, Mali from 16 to 21 April 2005. As usual, the joint plenary was preceded by meetings of the ACP and Joint Bureaus (of which South Africa is now a member), of the ACP plenary and also of the three Standing Committees – on Political Affairs, on Economic Development, Finance and Trade and on Social Affairs and the Environment. A highlight on this occasion was the launching of the ACP Parliamentary Assembly at a ceremony on April 15th following the signing on by a little more than the requisite one third of eligible ACP parliaments. The Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Mrs Peggy Hollander, signed on behalf of the South African Parliament.
The delegation consisted of NCOP Deputy Chairperson, Mrs Peggy Hollander, Dr Rob Davies and Ms Dumisile Nhlengethwa (of the ANC) and Mr Les Labuschagne (DA). We were accompanied by Ambassador Jerry Matjila and Mr Saul Pelle of the South African Embassy to the EU in Brussels, Ambassador Pandelani Mathoma of the South African Embassy to Mali, Ms Nonthato Skolo of the Department of Foreign Affairs, Ms Grace Constable of Parliament’s International Relations Unit and Ms Georgina Smith, personal assistant to Mrs Hollander.
The 9th Session operated according to the established rules of procedure providing for resolutions to be tabled via the Standing Committees with the possibility of only two “urgent resolutions” being tabled independently on topics agreed by the Joint Bureau. It was agreed at the Joint Bureau meeting held in Brussels in January that the “urgent resolutions” at the 9th session would be on “The Situation in the Sudan” and “The Situation in the African Great Lakes Region”. The Joint Bureau agreed on two other debates without resolution on “The impact of the December 2004 tsunami” and “The Situation in Togo”. The ACP plenary was informed of an invitation to include ACP parliamentarians in an ACP mission to observe the Togolese elections on April 24th. Due to an absence of funding this invitation could not, however, be taken up.
The plenary agenda also included the customary statements by, and questions to, the EU Commission (represented by both the Development Commissioner, Louis Michel, and the Trade Commissioner, Peter Mandelson), the ACP Council (represented by the Minister of Foreign affairs of Cape Verde, Mr Victor Borges) and the EU Council (represented by the Luxembourg Minister for Cooperation and Humanitarian Action, Mr Jean-Louis Schiltz). In addition there was a statement followed by exchanges of views with Ms Evelyne Herfkens, Executive Coordinator of the United Nations Millenium Development Goals Campaign.
As usual, there was a formal opening ceremony with speeches from the Co-Presidents, the Mayor of Bamako, Mr Moussa Traore, and the President of the National Assembly of Mali, Mr Ibrahim Keita. The President of the Republic of Mali, Mr Amadou Toumani Toure, formally declared proceedings open in a speech that noted that political development was far outpacing economic development in ACP countries and referred to the acute challenges facing Mali in the areas of cotton production, food security and the management of the Niger river among others. President Toure also explicitly commended President Thabo Mbeki for his efforts in the Ivory Coast peace process.
Launching of ACP Parliamentary Assembly and Formation of Working Group on EPAs
As indicated above, the ACP plenary concluded on April 15th with a formal signing ceremony to launch the ACP Parliamentary Assembly. The ceremony took place in the presence of both the Prime Minister and Speaker of the National Assembly of Mali. Representatives of 27 of the 79 eligible ACP Parliaments signed the Charter of the Assembly. They included ourselves, with Mrs Hollander signing on behalf of the South African Parliament. As one third of the total was the minimum required to launch the Assembly it was declared officially launched. Its real business will, however, not begin until the time of the next JPA, at which time it is expected more ACP parliaments will have signed on. A decision taken in the ACP plenary of potential significance for the future work of the ACP Parliamentary Assembly was to establish a Working Group on the Economic Partnership Agreement negotiations. Rob Davies at the request of the Co-President convened an initial meeting which brain stormed potential parameters of a work programme. A document is being prepared for presentation to the ACP Bureau.
One of the three Workshops forming part of the JPA agenda dealt with progress in EPA negotiations in three of the 6 EPA negotiating configurations- West Africa, the Pacific and Caribbean. For the moment discussions are mostly focusing on identifying development issues and addressing non-tariff barriers. However, the work programmes envisage formal Free Trade Area (FTA) negotiations beginning by September. In the exchange with Commissioner Mandelson, it became clear that while he continues to insist that these will not be conventional FTA negotiations driven by EU commercial interests, the Commission is not yet ready to commit even to positions championed by the British government (which include renunciation of all offensive interests and an upfront offer of full duty free access to the EU market). The timetable for implementation, proposals for additional resource allocations and the shape of the promised alternatives to EPAs, meanwhile, appear to remain as vague as ever.
Committee Programmes and Resolutions
Although we are full voting members of the Committee on Economic Development, Finance and Trade, the delegation divided itself to cover discussions in all three Committees. Mrs Hollander and Ms Nhlengethwa also attended a meeting of the Women’s Forum, which seeks to promote dialogue among women participants in the JPA.
The resolutions emerging from Committees were on “Post-conflict rehabilitation in ACP countries” (Political Affairs Committee), “Budgetisation of the European Development Fund” (Committee on Economic Development, Finance and Trade) and “Progress made in achieving universal primary education and gender equality in the ACP countries in the context of the Millenium Development Goals” (Social Affairs Committee). The first resolution called for flexible, coordinated programmes of support that sought to link relief, rehabilitation and development. The second resolution, which was the product of lengthy compromises between MEPs favouring including ACP development financing in the European budget and ACP countries wary of such a move, called for a joint study on the implications of budgetisation. The third resolution noted progress but also called for additional efforts to reach MDGs on education and gender equality. The next topic to be dealt with by the Economic Development, Finance and Trade Committee is on “Agricultural and Mining Commodities”. In the Committee meeting we tabled amendments seeking to strengthen references to EU Registration, Evaluation and Authorisation of Chemicals (REACH) legislation not becoming a non-tariff barrier to developing country exports. These amendments will be discussed, together with any others tabled, at the next Committee meeting in September – see also lunch meeting on REACH below.
Resolutions on Urgent Topics, the Bamako Declaration on MDGs and other Matters
The main draft resolution tabled on the “urgent topic” of Sudan was drafted by the two participants in the joint mission agreed at the last bureau meeting – ACP Co-President Sharon Hay-Webster of Jamaica and Luisa Morgantini of the GUE/NGL group. Several of the European Parliamentary groups had tabled amendments generally strongly critical of the Government of Sudan. We were again asked by the ACP Co-President to work with Professor Ephraim Kamuntu, the delegate from Uganda, to participate in the conciliation process, which eventually resulted in the passage of a resolution supported by all sides.
The draft resolutions on the “Situation in the African Great Lakes Region” were less contentious and were composited into a single resolution that commanded widespread support. It was, however, noted in the ACP plenary that no ACP draft resolution on this important issue had been tabled.
In addition to the resolutions, the JPA also adopted by acclamation “The Bamako Declaration on the Millenium Development Goals”. This was based on a text drafted by ourselves after discussion in the Bureau in January. It essentially supported a renewed “big push” to attain the MDGs focusing on debt cancellation, fair trade and increasing resource flows and the setting of clear deadlines for the EU to meet commitments in this regard. The Co-Presidents were also mandated to find an appropriate way for the JPA to participate in parliamentary processes linked to the UN General Assembly’s review of the MDGs later this year.
In the plenary, we took the floor in the debates on the MDGs and on “exchanges of views” with the Commission and ACP council. An unexpected feature of the interaction with Commissioner Michel was strong opposition from conservative MEPs from “new” member states to the Commissioner’s meeting with President Fidel Castro of Cuba. This drew a strong response from several ACP speakers (including ourselves) in favour of continued dialogue with Cuba (which is a full ACP member) on the contribution it can make to development programmes in ACP countries, particularly in the health sector. We had previously tabled questions to the ACP and EU councils (on the implications of the REACH legislation and on MDGs). The ACP Council’s answer to the question on the REACH indicated that the ACP was concerned, was looking into the matter and was looking to the South African embassy to the EU to provide a lead in this regard.
The Joint Bureau received a report on follow up letters sent by the Co-Presidents in response to matters raised in the Human Rights report tabled at the last meeting and other matters raised by Bureau members. This indicated no substantial reply had been received on the matters concerning human rights issues in the EU. A letter sent to the Zimbabwean Speaker on the issue of the detention of Roy Bennet, on the suggestion of MEPs, however, provoked a sharp retort from the Zimbabwean Ambassador to the effect that the Bureau had no business dealing with this matter and that Bennet was being detained in accordance with Zimbabwean law.
As usual Workshops were held on issues pertinent to the host country – “The Cotton Sector in Mali” and “Desertification and saving the River Niger”. The third workshop was on EPAs (see above). In addition, the hosts organized an excursion to Timbouktou on April 17th Mrs Hollander, Ambassador Matjila and Mr Labuschagne participated in this. Members of the delegation as usual participated in lunches with political groups associated with their political parties. These lunches, that have now become an established part of the programme, offer an opportunity for an exchange of views across the ACP-EU divide with “like minded” political groupings.
REACH Lunch Time Meeting
Given the importance of the impending EU REACH legislation, its potential impact on ACP countries, and the unique opportunity offered by the JPA to interact with a range of opinion formers in the European Parliament that will ultimately be responsible for the passage of the REACH legislation, the delegation organized a working lunch on the REACH on April 20th. Practical arrangements were handled by the two embassies and the meeting took the form of inputs from Rob Davies and a representative of the Malian Ministry of Mines followed by inter-active discussion. Dumisile Nhlengethwa chaired the meeting, which was attended by representatives of all major parties in the European Parliament, and particularly those with a special interest in the REACH, a number of ACP parliamentarians and officials and both Co- Presidents. We made it clear that we were not opposed, in principle, to legislation designed to protect consumers and the environment against potentially harmful chemical substances, but were concerned that the potential impact in terms of creating a non-tariff barrier to ACP exports, including but not only of mineral products. We called for exemptions, simplification of procedures and assistance to ACP countries to comply. Several of the EU political groups are strongly in support of REACH and up to now have seen opposition as special pleading by chemical companies seeking to avoid raising safety standards. They acknowledge, however, that concerns from developing countries have had little impact on the debate in the EU thus far and several participants in the lunch meeting indicated a willingness to consider amendments that would accommodate at least some ACP concerns.
The next Bureau and Committee meetings have been scheduled for 12th – 15th September in Brussels, and the 10th Joint Parliamentary Assembly will take place from 19th to 24th November. The venue for the 10th JPA has, however, not been settled. The EU Presidency at the time will be Britain, but the Secretariat has not yet been able to secure an appropriate venue in Britain. If they do not manage to find one, the JPA will be either in Luxembourg or Strasbourg. The provisional programme for 2006 was also agreed by the Joint Bureau. Committees and the Bureau will meet in the week of January 23rd; the 11th JPA will be in the EU in the week of June 19th; Committees and the Bureau will meet again in the week of 11th September and the 12th JPA will be in an ACP country in the week of November 20th.
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The Speaker
Letter from the Minister of Education dated 3 June 2005 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the delay in the tabling of the Annual Report of Council on Higher Education for 2003-2004:
Late tabling of Council on Higher Education Annual Report for 2003/04
I wish to apologise for the fact that the annual report for the 2003/04 financial year of the Council on Higher Education (CHE) was not tabled on time, as required in terms of section 65 of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (PFMA). The delay in submitting the Annual Report was due to corrections that had to be effected in the financial statements of the CHE in order to align them with Generally Accepted Accounting Practice (GAAP) in terms of the PFMA. I have communicated this to the CHE in order to ensure that the same thing will not happen again.
When the Annual Report of the CHE was submitted in October 2004 I did not table an explanation, since Parliament was in recess. The Annual Report was tabled on the first day after the recess. However, the Office of the Auditor-General advised me it was still necessary to table an apology.
I trust that my sincere apology will be accepted.
Yours sincerely
signed G N M Pandor, MP Minister of Education