TUESDAY, 30 MAY 2006 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

                                ____

The House met at 10:05.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the ACDP I give notice that I shall move:

That the House debates South Africa’s response to the World Health Organisation’s report that the global shortage of doctors, nurses and other health workers is slowing down the fight against Aids and other fatal diseases, and that doctors and nurses are urgently needed in the 57 countries worst affected by HIV/Aids, malaria and TB.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 4 – Home Affairs:

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker …

Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: Can we ask if it is parliamentary that all the smaller parties receive their speakers’ lists on ANC stationery?

The SPEAKER: I would like the Whips to sort out that matter. [Interjections.] It doesn’t sound correct to me. However, it is not a matter that is on the Order Paper for this particular sitting, and I would like the Minister to proceed.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, hon members, director-general and senior management of the department, hon guests of the department and the Ministry, dear friends, earlier this month, members of this House led the nation in marking the 10th anniversary of our country’s Constitution.

This was a significant event in the lives of all South Africans, as it recommitted us to the noble principles on which our new nation is built – the principles of a country united, democratic, nonsexist and nonracial. We celebrated that in the past 12 years we have lived in a country that truly belongs to all. We stand before you here in the first instance to rededicate ourselves to these principles and to make a further undertaking that our mandate, as a government and as a department, should support these fundamental ideals of our new society.

In a way the work of the Department of Home Affairs has always been intimately weaved into the lives of our citizenry and the history of our country in general. It was because of the discriminatory laws governing the issuing of passbooks by this department that women marched on the Union Buildings 50 years ago in protest. As we mark the anniversary of that historic march, we once again remember how much we are indebted to those heroines who were bold enough to take the first steps. It is therefore fitting that for us as a department, we should dedicate this Budget Vote to them.

Hon members, almost two years ago we came before this House to present our plan to reposition the Department of Home Affairs in order for it to fulfil its mandate. At the time we made a frank acknowledgement regarding serious weaknesses at organisational and policy levels within our department.

It had always been our view that such weaknesses had a negative impact on the ability of the department to function effectively. We presented a plan that recognised that nothing short of fundamental transformation and reorganisation could ensure a proper turnaround for the department. This plan clearly identified major interventions both in the short and long term.

In line with that obligation, we also made an undertaking periodically to report to this House on the progress we were making in the implementation of our plan. We called upon this House to hold us accountable and responsible for the targets we set ourselves and to ensure that in the interests of the people we serve, these targets are met.

Therefore the first part of this presentation will outline a progress report on the key priorities, which formed part of our budget for last year. Last year we had offered a budget presentation, which was designed to allow our work to start making a real impact on the improvement of service delivery at lower levels.

We indicated that we were going to receive the report on a survey conducted, at our request, by the Human Sciences Research Council, HSRC, to determine the extent of the problems regarding our services to citizens. Through this survey, we wanted to have access to reliable data that determines the extent of lack of services and the areas of prevalence with regard to civic services provision. This data would in turn be useful in determining key areas for our intervention.

The report of the survey has highlighted a number of factors that impact on service delivery to citizens, particularly in rural areas. These factors have been wide-ranging, including lack of access, awareness, proper understanding of the need to be properly registered as well as historical factors. The report has covered a number of areas of prevalence, by province, by race, by social status, education and so on.

According to this report, there are approximately 1,5 million South Africans over the age of 16 who do not have a green barcoded identity document. This represents 6% of South Africans eligible for identity documents. Most importantly, it also shows that living standards and levels of education are a factor in these statistics and shows that people who live in rural areas, with lower or no levels of education, are more likely to be without IDs. The report also reveals that there were even fewer people with green barcoded IDs in the Western Cape and amongst white South Africans in general.

Most black people in the rural areas have not applied for the registration of their children and this is more prevalent in KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and the North West provinces. Similar statistics were noted with regard to the notification and registration of deaths.

We have since started to develop an implementation plan to take forward the recommendations of the survey with a view to develop more resources to target specific areas as identified.

In anticipation of the capacity requirements to implement the solutions emerging from this survey, we had undertaken to specifically investigate the transformation of our branch of civic services. As hon members can note from our strategic plan, we shall be appointing a project team under a new project manager to steer this process. We envisaged that the transformation of civic services should cover its organisational capacity, workflow and business processes as well as weaknesses in systems, such as the lack of a track and tracing tool for applications and other documents.

The budget that we present today makes specific provision for the funding of a new civic services establishment - both in this financial year and throughout the remainder of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework.

Hon members will remember that as part of our efforts to enhance the capacity of the department, we had made an undertaking to put in place sound leadership capacity in all our provinces, and we are indeed happy to report that our new provincial managers have recently been appointed and have joined us here today in the gallery. While these managers are admittedly still new and are still settling in in the department, each one of them is faced with immediate tasks of consolidating further leadership and operational capacity at lower levels of their provinces.

In addition, we have also succeeded in filling the identified critical posts as promised in our previous Budget Vote debate, thereby creating much- needed additional capacity to ensure improvement of service delivery in our offices.

During this financial year we shall finalise the devolution of certain administrative powers to provinces in order to ensure better efficiency while reducing the current levels of overcentralisation that frustrates service delivery due to red tape.

We are also reviewing some of the occupational categories of our organisational establishment in order to professionalise the department as an organisation. This is because currently well over 70% of our human resources are officials at level seven and below. This situation undermines the need for strategic leadership at our provincial and local offices. We are enlisting the support and assistance of the Department of the Public Service and Administration in doing this work.

I am particularly happy to report that we are finally making progress in addressing some of the structural weaknesses pertaining to our ports of entry, and in particular the problems of congestion at our major international airports. We have now appointed a departmental task team that is tasked with monitoring the implementation of our rescue plan on an ongoing basis to ensure the proper functioning of our structures at these ports of entry.

We have been working in close consultation with all the stakeholders involved, including the Board of Airline Representatives and the Airports Company of South Africa, and we are indeed encouraged by the fact that, since the work of the task team began, the problem of congestion at airports has, to a certain extent, been resolved. The task team is also working on extending some of these solutions to other ports of entry, as evidenced in their work at both the Beit Bridge and Lubombo land border posts.

This success has been complementary to the work of the Border Control Co- ordinating Committee, or BCOCC, which has continued to bring together all the government departments that operate at our borders to work together to ensure better management of our ports of entry. As the lead department within the BCOCC, we have recently appointed a chief director whose sole responsibility is to ensure proper functioning of the BCOCC and its various subcommittees.

Last year we indicated that we would make a further allocation to additional mobile units only in the next financial year in terms of our budgeting cycle. Due to the impressive work and relief that the current units have given to the communities, we have decided to add to the 67 mobile units deployed throughout our provinces. Budget allocations to such additional units have been made to the tune of R79 million and further allocations will be made for the 2007-08 financial year as well.

We have also introduced extended hours of service in all our offices during the week. These offices are also open on Saturdays until lunchtime to allow communities more access to our services.

At the level of our contribution to international migration policy, particularly relating to the link between development and migration, we have taken very seriously our responsibilities as Chair of the G77 Group, and are currently busy with the preparations for the High Level Dialogue on Migration that will take place in New York later this year. We are also able to report to this House that the Protocol for the Facilitation of the Free Movement of People has now been adopted by the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and during this session of Parliament we will present this protocol to Parliament for ratification.

This protocol, which aims to promote regional economic development, will take a number of years to implement. In the meantime, South Africa is continuing the process of entering into bilateral visa waiver agreements with SADC member states and strengthening co-operation on immigration issues, including the proper alignment of resource and enforcement capacities.

The Immigration Amendment Act of 2004 came into effect on the 1st of July last year, and the immigration regulations also seek to meet our foreign policy objectives in respect of the region. Just two examples of groups who have benefited from the changes in policy are the cross-border traders, many of whom are women and who can more easily travel to South Africa, and students from Africa, who are no longer required to pay repatriation deposits if their countries agree to take responsibility for their return.

Hon members, we are reaching the end of the first year of the implementation of the Immigration Amendment Act, and are satisfied that both the Act and its regulations represent a sound policy basis for the management of immigration. We are happy that the policy objectives set out by the President in 2004 when he directed us to amend the Immigration Act, have been met. We do, however, recognise that there has been teething problems in the implementation of the Act and these are being addressed.

Members must also realise that as a department we only facilitate the import of needed skills into the country. As Minister of Home Affairs I do not decide what those skills are. The Act requires me to consult with other Ministers and their departments in deciding on quotas and with the recent launch of the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, Jipsa, of which we are part, we will revise the current quotas in consultation with other stakeholders. I have taken note of representations made with regard to the current two-year limit on the intra-company transfer work permit and this period will be extended.

Members will recall that following a number of death cases in Lindela, I commissioned an independent inquiry into the matter. The recommendations of this committee of inquiry were immediately implemented and the result has been an overwhelming improvement with the cases of death reducing drastically.

The permanent campaign for civic registration has continued to make a positive impact on the lives of ordinary South Africans. All the elements of this campaign, including the marital status campaign, the ID campaign, the birth registration campaign and the Lokisa Ditikomane, have brought greater awareness amongst the public about the need to have enabling documents and the kind of services offered at the Department of Home Affairs.

As part of our programmes to contribute to the fight against poverty, we have identified rural communities where most vulnerable groups still struggle to access basic services. Recently, we had an opportunity to visit a San community of the Xu! And Khwe in the Northern Cape Province, and to provide a service for civic registration amongst these compatriots who have never had enabling documents in their lives.

Hon members will recall that we made the commitment to specifically focus on this community, who are one of the earliest inhabitants of our land, during our Vote in 2004. This is because, as we said at the time, our failure to properly accord them an identity and status amounts to a denial of their existence and recognition before the law. This is something that should never happen if we are to build a caring society that feels discomfort at the sight of the suffering of others.

We are honoured to have the leadership of that community, as well as their cultural entertainment group, joining us as guests to this Budget Vote and they are seated in the gallery of this distinguished House. [Applause.] Thank you.

Madam Speaker, last year I announced the start of a Refugee Backlog Project. This was due to the huge backlog and delays in finalising applications for asylum. We shall publicly launch this project on World Refugee Day, which is on 20 June. This launch will provide me with a further opportunity to interact with refugees as individuals and their organisations. I found such interactions with them last year to be very positive.

Later this year we shall also introduce legislation to amend the current Refugees Act, with a view to ensuring better compliance with our constitutional and international obligations. In particular, by streamlining the status determination process, we will be able to prevent future backlogs and to facilitate the integration of genuine refugees.

Hon members and friends, as we have already indicated during our previous interactions with this House, many of our weaknesses in systems require a dedicated technology solution. I am particularly happy that we have registered considerable progress in this regard and that this budget has made further resources available for us to consolidate current projects.

Regarding the back record conversion as planned, we shall conclude the process of populating our Automated Fingerprint Identification System, AFIS, this year. The digitisation of fingerprints records is now at 70% and we can safely report that it will be completed long before the initial schedule of September 2006. The records are an integral part of the Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis.

It had become necessary also for us to have a reliable National Population Register, NPR, and Movement Control System, MCS, that can assure the integrity of our data. We therefore made an undertaking that after proper investigation, the two systems will require a rewrite. At this stage, the Enterprise Architecture for the NPR and the MCS was started and significant progress has been made in this regard. In an effort to enhance our efficiency in the management of refugee affairs, the refugee live capture has been initiated and finalised.

Of the 263 offices identified for computerisation in the 2005-06 financial year, 240 were completed. The department still continues to deal with the scourge of theft of equipment, and security requirements should always be fulfilled before computer equipment can be installed in offices. This has tended to affect the pace of installation. In a further attempt to bring services closer to the citizens, the department has increased the number of hospitals with access to Home Affairs Systems to a total of 119.

We have also continued to carry out our international work in support of our foreign policy objectives and the activities of Nepad. We shall continue in this financial year to implement the key elements of our technical assistance agreements with the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which we are assisting with issues pertaining to their population register and immigration management capacity. A similar agreement has also been signed with the Government of Rwanda.

We have also increased the number of our consular officials in South Africa’s missions abroad, from 21 in 2004 to 42 this year, and a further 10 will be added in the coming financial year. Most of these offices are within the African continent where our services were almost nonexistent.

Allow me at this stage, hon members, to outline in broad terms the key provisions of this budget for the period 2006/07-2008/09. The single most important challenge that we will continue to be confronted with is the inadequate levels of human resource capacity across the department. Plainly put, the numbers, levels and quality of our human resource is a serious mismatch for the crosscutting and overwhelming mandate of the department.

After our initial investigation of the organisational structure, our new approved establishment has grown twofold compared to 2003-04 and funding for this establishment has been approved over a period of four years, ending in 2009. Of importance to note has been the need to make provision for much-needed capacity within our civic services branch that was initially left out of the first investigation of the establishment.

With regard to infrastructure, improvement and acquisition still remains a critical area of intervention for the department. This is in relation to the enhancement of the building infrastructure to improve accessibility of the public to the services of the department.

As promised last year, we have now received the report of the study we have commissioned last year in conjunction with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, on the location of our offices. The report will serve as a guide in the roll-out of office infrastructure, taking into account the distances, population densities and the need to support urban and rural development.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Speaker, there is something that really disturbs the Minister and we are trying to follow this … The noise that is coming from that other side, could you please attend to that.

The SPEAKER: Yes, hon members, please if you have to communicate with each other, lower your voices, please.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Regarding Hanis, as already indicated in our report above, most of the programmes that form part of Hanis, are now at an advanced stage or nearing completion. These include the population of AFIS through the conversion of over 40 million fingerprint records. The completion of this process this year will add greater benefit for the efficiency of our systems, including faster and reliable verification processes.

Cabinet is still at this stage discussing outstanding issues relating to the procurement model for the Smart ID Card, and we are certain that these discussions will be finalised at some point. In this regard, we have made provision for the roll-out of the process once we have the required go- ahead.

Under service delivery: As already noted by the report of the HSRC that I referred to earlier, our clients are still concerned with the quality of service they receive in most of our offices. Due to this service delivery challenge at our provincial and local offices, it became essential to allocate resources towards the overall improvement in the manner in which we serve our people.

Some of the initiatives in this regard will include the allocation of further mobile units and the implementation of the recommendations arising out of the civic service’s survey conducted by the HSRC. Additional resources will be allocated towards a more efficient ID distribution strategy, queue management in our offices, as well as the running of the company on the rights of the client.

With regard to counter-corruption: We shall continue to enhance our capacity to fight corruption within the department and we are greatly encouraged by the progress we have made in the previous year. Most importantly, we shall extend this capacity to our provinces in order to improve our own ability to deal with cases more effectively throughout all levels of our department.

Under immigrations services: The passing of the new Immigration Act necessitated the fundamental transformation of our country’s immigration services throughout the establishment of the National Immigration Branch. We needed to source additional funding to provide a world-class service in this area and to ensure that the department is well capacitated, to ensure that immigration policy and its implementation can play a role in supporting national objectives in the areas of development, economic growth, security and foreign policy.

We also needed to make provision for the additional capacity that would be required for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

Regarding civic services, the final policy option that was brought forward to request for additional funds was for civic services. This is our biggest branch and one where the functions affect the lives of our citizens. Most of the options stated above, such as harnessing countercorruption, infrastructure and people, are also supporting the sound functioning of civic services. The financial year 2004-05 has been the year during which the department was given a disclaimer audit opinion by the Auditor-General, AG. This opinion had been a serious indictment of the manner in which the finances of the department were being managed. I am aware that Parliament, through the portfolio committee, is dealing with the matter of this report.

I must indicate that at the time of the release of the AG’s report I had sought a meeting with him to discuss his findings on the state of the finances of the department. After this interaction with the AG, I am satisfied with the explanation of the circumstances that have led to his opinion, and we’ve accepted the report of the AG and his opinion.

I have now instructed the director-general, DG, as our accounting officer, to inform me about the steps that he will take to address and deal with the issues raised in the report by the AG. Due to the serious nature of the matter I have also requested National Treasury to invoke Chapter 2, section 6, of the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, in terms of which Treasury:

(2)(d) may assist departments and constitutional institutions in building their capacity for efficient, effective and transparent financial management; (e) may investigate any system of financial management and internal control in any department, public entity or constitutional institution.

Both the National Treasury and our department will report to Parliament on the implementation of this process, which will start immediately hereafter.

We remain committed to ensure that this department should be put in a position where it can serve its mandate in a manner that supports the growth of our democracy and restores the dignity of our people. We appreciate that owing to the nature of our work there will always be greater impatience and pressure on us to deliver this quality of service with urgency.

The needs of our clients are urgent and therefore we can never see this pressure as an unjustified irritation, but as a constant reminder that ours is a service that is about people. It is for this reason that we should listen to your own assessment of the progress we have made and to accept some of your observations and guidance.

Before I take my seat I think I did indicate that it was a difficult period for the department, but I want to thank my senior management. I want to thank the DG, I want to thank my colleagues for the support, but I also want to thank ordinary Members of Parliament – the backbenchers – for the support they have given us. [Applause.] I equally want to take this opportunity, hon members, as it was a difficult period - they say it doesn’t rain but it pours – and a time during which I lost my mother and I got a lot of support from all of you, Members of Parliament, and I have not had an opportunity to thank you for that and I want to thank you. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Don’t make so much noise. Thank you very much, Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to address Parliament on the Budget Vote on Home Affairs for 2005-06 and 2006-07.

The focus of the committee for the last financial year has been to monitor the systems that the Department of Home Affairs had put in place in making sure that it discharges its duties in giving service to the citizens. One of the areas that we focused on is the issue of immigration - as the Minister has correctly raised the point on immigration and immigration regulations – and part of what we did was to observe and monitor systems that have been put in place at all our ports of entry.

There was a launch of the immigration branch early in February this year and part of what we then wanted to look at was the kind of new system that the Department of Home Affairs is coming up with, especially when it comes to issues of immigration, training of immigration officers, issuing of permits and passports, IDs and all of that. Now, the biggest challenge that we then discovered was that there is still a problem with regard to the ports of entry that we have in the country – they are not manned by Home Affairs, they are manned by Safety and Security – and this arrangement needs to be attended to, Minister, as a matter of urgency.

Critical to some of the issues that we focused on was to interact with our counterparts within the SADC. We visited a number of countries: Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Namibia. We observed in Mozambique their systems of the issuing of birth certificates, passports – generally, the arrangements regarding civil services. The same applies to Zimbabwe and Namibia.

What we discovered in Namibia was that they still have a problem with the population register. Most of their citizens … as you know the former apartheid government colonised Namibia and when they left Namibia they took along the population register. Most of the citizens in Namibia are still South African citizens. We were told that almost 80% of Namibians are holding South African citizenship.

So, I think, the bigger challenge is that we as a country, through you, Ministers of Home Affairs and Foreign Affairs, must address this issue as a matter of urgency because we have robbed the Namibians of their citizenship, and they are currently part of our population register. I think it is something we need to look at. Again, Minister, we interacted directly on the issues of the SADC Protocol because we believe this protocol is long overdue. What we looked at was to see what systems they have in place with regard to the security of their documents, the security of their systems with regard to movement of people and the issuing of passports.

It became very clear that there are still challenges in that area that needed us perhaps, at some point, to assist these countries to have proper systems in place so that when you start the free movement protocol, Minister, we will rectify that protocol before the end of this year. I think it is critical that we look at systems which are in place, so that the movement of people is accurately and correctly recorded, with clear documents and clear security features on them.

I want to go straight to the issues raised by the Auditor-General. As we all know, the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, requires departments to table their annual reports before 31 September. Last year we started that process as a committee to engage with the Department of Home Affairs regarding the issue of the tabling of the report and the strategic plan.

It was very clear to us, Minister, as we interacted with the department, that there are problems around finalising the annual report and the strategic plan, but we then decided to give them a chance to continue resolving their problems. We then focused our work around a number of areas that I have mentioned earlier.

However, what is very clear is a call that was made in one of the last meetings during the budget hearings last year with SCOPA. The Department is having internal problems with regard to the internal auditing and this requires the department to immediately get involved and try to resolve these problems - that was said by SCOPA.

When we interacted with the department in the last financial year presentations and budget hearings they clearly did not raise these issues with us, and members of the committee have been at pains to say: Raise the issues that are problematic so that we are able to help you when you have these problems. But, the department decided not to share these problems with us, until SCOPA picked up these issues. This was at the time of the former director-general Barry Gilder.

Minister, the problem that you must understand about this department is that for the past four years - in fact, I would say that for the past 11 years – this department has been having problems. Not from the Minister’s point of view, but the manner in which systems are put in place in the department. If you recall, there were problems with the directors-general, starting with Mokoena and how he left the department, to the point where you had the same problems again with the former Minister vis-à-vis the directors-general. About two or three of the directors-general experienced very serious problems with the manner in which they related to their Ministers.

That instability has really created these problems that we have today. The ANC has raised these problems; that until such time as Lee … you are really making a noise … and Mike Ellis … your voice is horrible in the mike, can you just lower your voice because I am just trying to raise something that your member will have to try and follow. Don’t argue with me on this.

Mr M J ELLIS: If you were making a decent speech I would listen.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Minister, it is very clear that these problems of the directors-general have really impacted negatively on service delivery, but not only on service delivery but on the overall strategic plan of the department, and as you know the White Paper process has had its own problems.

The current problems that we have are obviously the remnants of the problem I mentioned earlier. Systems that are not in existence have led to this situation that we are dealing with and it is quite a serious disclaimer.

In his report, the Auditor-General says that over R572 million was not accounted for - it is quite a huge amount - because there were no supporting documents coming from the department. He again mentioned that over R66 million was spent on transport and the buying of vehicles from the Gauteng department of transport, without a clear agreement between the Department of Home Affairs and the Gauteng department of transport. I think these are very critical areas that we’ll have to focus on.

Other issues I will not go into detail about, as members will be able to deal with that when we deal with this problem. The manner in which we are going to approach this problem, Minister, is that the committee will keep on engaging with the Department of Home Affairs, the director-general, the CFO and other senior officials in the department to try and resolve this problem, because we want to see a situation where each and every cent that this Parliament has appropriated to Home Affairs is accounted for.

Your call, Minister, that Treasury will come in and assist the department, I think, is coming at the right time. I think we will support that. We will support you, Minister, in making sure that Treasury comes in and assists the department with putting systems in place, but also to deal with the problem of elements that are not supposed to be within the department. It is very clear that a huge amount of corruption is taking place in the Department of Home Affairs and that needs to be addressed, Minister. For far too long, for four years, we have been getting qualified reports, before you even became Minister of Home Affairs. For four years the reports were qualified. Under the leadership of the hon Mangosuthu Buthelezi we experienced this problem. I was on this podium raising these issues and saying that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, but people were saying there is a war between the ANC and the IFP, nothing else.

The DA – when we were raising these issues at that time – wanted this wonderful relationship between them and hon Buthelezi and the IFP, to have this marriage of inconvenience that didn’t even last for six months. [Interjections.] They did not support us.

But I am surprised, Minister, that today they have made a list of more than 50 issues that they want you to address on home affairs – over 50 issues. [Applause.] So, all along they have been quiet knowing very well that there are problems in home affairs and they kept on noting those problems and waiting for the time when the ANC is in charge of the department to say, “Address these issues, Minister, and/or you must resign”.

The problem at home affairs is not the Minister herself. The problem is the system we have inherited from apartheid, which we have not yet addressed. We have not yet addressed that problem. [Applause.] [Interjections.] You know what hon member; if you would fix your hairstyle I will definitely listen to you. [Interjections.]

But, clearly these problems that we have today are very old problems of the apartheid legacy that we must deal with, because when we were supposed to deal with these issues under the leadership of Buthelezi we were told that we were out of order, we don’t know what to say and we are just fighting the Minister unnecessarily. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: How long have you been the Chairperson?

Mr H P CHAUKE: The people who are making such a noise today, from the DA, most of you don’t even have fingerprints on the records of Home Affairs, because only black people were supposed to have their fingerprints taken and not white people. We want to capture your information, your fingerprints and we want to make sure that you, Mr Gibson, have the green barcoded ID book, because most of you are still holding on to that old apartheid passbook and don’t want to change to the green barcoded ID book.

So, these are the problems that we find that the Minister must address. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: For how many years have you been Chairperson?

Mr H P CHAUKE: How many years? For three years. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: As long as… [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, you are supposed to address the House.

Mr H P CHAUKE: You see, the problem is that I am not afraid of you raising anything. You can stand up and ask me any question and I will answer you. But don’t use your baas-boy Lee to make a noise. Lee, don’t make a noise because I am addressing issues that you yourself in your constituency have problems with and that you - as a Member of Parliament – need to address. The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member!

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, the hon member said he would, with pleasure, answer a question if I asked it, may I ask the hon member … [Interjections.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: On home affairs?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes.

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon Chauke, please take your seat while he is asking the question.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: When is the hon member and his party going to accept responsibility for the deficiencies in the Department of Home Affairs? When are they going to stop waving their fingers around and blaming the previous Minister or the DA for it? Mr H P CHAUKE: We have already taken the blame because we are in charge of the department; we are not running away from the problems. We accept that there are problems in Home Affairs and we are taking the blame. [Applause.] In fact, we are accepting that we made a mistake from the beginning not to be in control of home affairs. That’s the mistake we have made. [Applause.]

Next question? I will deal with you! [Laughter.]

So, Minister, if we are not going to be able to deal with these problems we are going to have a problem, because of the new challenge that you have mentioned, namely the role that we play on the international front – the role of home affairs in the DRC and Burundi, and currently we are even helping the DRC to compile their population register.

We have deployed two mobile units there that go to villages, as much as we have this responsibility at home of making sure that we have mobile units that go deep into villages where our people used to travel at least 400 to 500 km to access home affairs. We have made it easier now. Our people can access these mobile units at no cost. These are the achievements of the Department of Home Affairs.

As I said, the process continues on the disclaimer opinion. Tomorrow, after this debate - hon member Kalyan knows very well - there is a portfolio committee meeting at 9:00 and we are going to engage with the Department of Home Affairs, the Director-General and the CFO. [Interjections.]

We are continuing and not doing it for the sake of the debate here. We are going to continue until they account for every cent they have spent. This is what we are going to do. We will table a report to Parliament with recommendations, much as your hairstyle, Madam, really makes me sick. [Laughter.] Minister, the report will come with recommendations and in those recommendations we will support this problem.

One of the issues I want to deal with before I finish my time … Can I have the last two seconds that you have taken, Madam Speaker? The only problem I want us to address, Minister, about the Western Cape is the xenophobia; the racism that you find in this province leaves much to be desired. We have met with the MEC of safety and security in our hearing last week. There is a problem that if you are black in the Western Cape you find it difficult for you, for movement, for … [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, on a point of order, you have indicated already that his time is up and now you are giving him extra minutes … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon Chauke, thank you very much for your speech, your time has expired. Mr H P CHAUKE: Can I borrow another five minutes, Madam Speaker … [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: No! You don’t have time. You are now on hon Kalyan’s time. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, President Mbeki said in his 2006 state of the nation address that our country has entered the age of hope.

Well, the Department of Home Affairs has given new meaning to the words ``age of hope’’. The client of the department lives perpetually in hope. He hopes that he will get efficient and courteous service. He hopes that there won’t be queues. He hopes his identity document application will be processed within three months and actually be delivered to him. He hopes that the information on the document will be correct. He hopes that his passport will be processed within six weeks. He hopes that none of his documents will be lost, and he hopes that somebody at the Home Affairs office will actually answer the telephone.

It is my considered opinion that one needs both a prayer and hope when applying for any enabling document from the Department of Home Affairs. Recent reports of a young man who held hostage a Home Affairs official because he had been waiting for two years for an ID, is just one example of the sheer frustration that Joe Public out there experiences. We were told reliably that although the man in question now has an ID, it is incorrect. So, so much for that!

Minister, I suspect that the double-page advertisement in yesterday’s papers is both an attempt to highlight the department’s successes and do damage control at the same time. I note with great interest that the advert doesn’t carry the department’s motto of being caring, compassionate and responsible’’, nor is there any reference to theThe client is always right’’ campaign. Indeed, the issuing of birth certificates on site to newborns and the marital status campaign has been very successful.

However, Minister, you have been rather economical with the truth and the advert. The Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis, and the Automated Fingerprint Identification System, AFIS, are a case in point. The advert would have one believe that the systems are up and running, but in reality they are not, and you have indicated that it is on hold. Millions of rands have been thrown at Hanis and AFIS, and we heard yesterday that the full implementation will only happen by 2008.

The Department of Home Affairs submitted its annual report rather late on 26 May 2006. It should have been done by September 2004, and the main reason was that the auditing process was flawed.

The recent damning report from the Auditor-General on the finances of the department is a blight on the department’s track record. For four years now, the department has been given a qualified audit report, and this year with the disclaimer to boot, mainly because the department failed to disclose a transit account with a debit balance of R5,8 million, and which amount is not recoverable.

There was also failure to provide either explanations or supporting documentation for R8,3 million credited to a department account from which R3,1 million has been drawn and which cannot be accounted for. The issue of missing documentation, the alien deposit bank account and unauthorised expenditure is scandalous, to say the least.

The department’s explanation to the portfolio committee is unacceptable and, in trying to justify the disgraceful state of the financial affairs, the chief financial officer is digging a hole so deep that he cannot climb out of it. It is clear that he is not up to the job; he has no business plan in place to address the problems of the department.

I found the director-general’s comment in the advert that the Department of Home Affairs´ delivery machinery is well oiled and fully functional quite laughable, really. In fact, the director-general, by his own admission, ascended the throne knowing nothing about Home Affairs. Well, one year and two months later, he is none the wiser and his lack of leadership and oversight by remote control have been much of the department’s undoing.

A forensic audit was requested to address concerns raised by the Auditor- General. When the Minister became aware of the process happening, she said at the briefing on 26 May that she had still not been presented even with the preliminary report. In fact, she went on to say that it was highly possible that the scale of mismanagement of funds may be much larger than at first thought. One wonders why she is being protected from actually seeing the report.

What also emerged during the department’s briefing is that the internal audit team was unreliable. What is alarming is that they gave no indications that there were problems, and the chief financial officer also failed to pick it up. The head of the internal audit team declined to be present at the briefing. So much for functioning at full steam!

The unfortunate comments by the chairperson that your problems are as a result of the past, and that the DA contributed to it is absolute nonsense. The present Minister was a Deputy Minister before becoming a full Minister, so she is just as accountable.

Immigration control in our country at the present moment is sorely lacking both in professionalism and capacity. Firstly, the Minister needs to explain her failure to set up a new Immigration Advisory Board, IAB, since August last year. The IAB has an important role to play in combating South Africa’s scarce skills crisis by formulating immigration policy and assisting the Minister in the implementation of that policy. Her foot- dragging has resulted in the transitional chairperson of the board, Prof Levy, resigning.

The vision of the Department of Home Affairs to deliver a world-class service in respect of immigration is failing miserably. The lack of staff at most ports of entry over long weekends and public holidays and the consequent chaos are regular occurrences.

Home Affairs cannot control its staff and is incapable of making contingency plans. The department allows too many staff members to take leave at peak periods and has no reserves to fill the vacancies. Earlier this year, passengers on an international flight from Nigeria, which landed in the early hours of the morning, entered the country without being screened by the immigration officials. This a clear sign of lack of co- ordination, foresight and planning.

While the department has indeed made some progress in respect of corruption within its ranks, it is my considered opinion that the pace is too slow. What is alarming is the fact that 10 000 passports were found in the United Kingdom. A forensic audit by the Government Printing Works, GPW, confirmed that the passports are indeed authentic South African passports. It is also clear that a syndicate within Home Affairs is responsible for the theft, but no arrests have been made to date. The question is: Why?

The department has, by its own admission, stated in its strategic plan that the quality of service they deliver is often inadequate. The much vaunted turnaround strategy remains a dream of the Department of Home Affairs. Furthermore, they acknowledge in the annual report that they have not yet come to terms with the challenges of transformation and change.

I would like to applaud the Minister for her open and frank engagement with the portfolio committee. In your own words, Minister, the reality of inadequate training, understaffing and poor office location has hindered progress in your portfolio and impeded the realisation of Batho Pele in the fullest sense of the word.

However, Minister, as the political head, the buck does stop with you. Heads must roll for such incompetence and insufficiency, and the DA urges you to take swift action against those incompetent officials and to bring in the skills that you actually need to help you improve service delivery and actually make the Home Affairs motto of being a caring, compassionate and responsive department a reality.

The DA will not pronounce itself on the budget today. We await further discussion and logical reasonable interaction with the department before we do so.

In conclusion, I would like to place on record my appreciation to my colleagues in the Portfolio Committee of Home Affairs, under the chairpersonship of the hon Chauke, for the genuine collegiality amidst which we conduct our oversight work. We are allowed to air our opinions and engage each other vigorously without fear of censure, although I must admit that I was a bit taken aback by his comments today. It is a pleasure to serve on the committee. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs I MARS: Madam Speaker, Minister, Deputy Minister and colleagues, Home Affairs is bound to protect and regulate the interests of South Africans regarding their individual status, identity and specific rights. This we fully support.

The portfolio committee met with the department only last Friday and yesterday to receive and interrogate the strategic plan for 2006, 2007 and 2008, and the annual report of 2004-05. Believe it or not, it is necessary to schedule a further meeting to complete our work.

Now, it has been stated - and it has to be repeated – that the internal mechanisms in the department leave much to be desired. I think there has been total uniformity in our thinking in the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs that this is so. The interesting thing is that on 28 May, the Sunday Tribune printed an article on the perceived weaknesses of the oversight role of Parliament. Please note that the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs has exercised its mandate, despite the very poor responses from the department concerned. I think this is where the main problem lies.

I know our chairman referred to our previous Minister, the hon Buthelezi, and tried to put the blame on the past, but then he also said that it was not the Minister, that it was the department. So, we agree that there is very poor leadership currently, and this has manifested itself in the late delivery of all reports, which has made the oversight work very difficult.

Now some months ago, as you have already heard, the committee engaged with the Auditor-General and the department in order to understand the reasons for the delays in the auditing process. The committee was only able – as I told you before – to address and deal with these matters on Friday and yesterday, and will have to continue on Wednesday. This is after the budget speech.

It has to be noted that the initial response by the department to the Auditor-General’s presentation was received by us with grave concern. Very correctly the Minister, in her address to the portfolio committee, stated that the department would have to make a serious commitment to addressing the challenges and that it would have to live up to ensuring that there would be an improvement in the lives of the people we serve.

The Minister also committed herself to reporting back to the committee on a recently completed forensic audit regarding the suspension of a number of individuals. We await this report with interest.

But we have to keep on registering our concern, which keeps on reflecting the department’s lack of capacity and lack of leadership. Take the dismal response to the 25 300 refugees, of whom only 23% have been dealt with. The slowness of the process exposes noncitizens to police harassment and xenophobia and, in some instances, drives them to criminal activities.

The issue of smart cards for refugees is a matter of great urgency. It may become necessary to relook at the process of how to obtain these documents and to make absolutely sure that the officials dealing with these people are properly trained, are understanding and have some caring, some compassion, for the plight that these people find themselves in.

We as the portfolio committee – and I must congratulate our chairman on this – interacted with about 700 refugees in the Old Assembly last year, and we listened to their many concerns. With South Africa’s strong commitment to a human rights culture, it is imperative to address this matter.

There is also the issue of processing the applications for permanent residence for 17 000 foreigners. The outcome of these processes and that of the asylum seekers have an impact on their futures, their families and their professional lives.

We noted with interest in the 2006, 2007 and 2008 strategic plan that the strategy delivery model puts the needs of the client in the centre of all activities. Of course we all support this. However, this, as you know, is not the way the client perceives Home Affairs. I won’t go into the details of the many sad tales; they are published in the media daily. Members of Parliament are very aware of them. They have difficulties themselves, as do their own families and the communities they serve.

We hear a lot about vision and strategies and there are many, many wonderful words that are meant to make us have confidence in the processes we are currently involved in. But it would be a good idea if senior personnel actually went to deal with their clients in their offices and listened to the difficulties that they encountered. This interaction with clients and officials is what the portfolio committee does very successfully, and that is what enables us to speak on these matters with authority.

It is very disappointing that having heard all the difficulties that have been encountered, out of a budget of R2,8 billion, the allocation to training has only increased by R4 million and stands at a total of R28 million to train staff members. Now, we find it extremely difficult to benchmark this training. We can only hope one day, when we check with our clients again, that they have noticed a difference in the response from the department and the service point. We do hope for this, because they deserve it.

Last year we launched the immigration service, in terms of which the current budget received R100 million, to improve salaries and build capacity. We note that immigration officers are not yet in their new blue uniforms and that there remains a number of vacant posts. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M R SIKAKANE: Madam Speaker, I would like to engage, one-on- one, with member Kalyan when we leave this House, and teach her a bit of constitutional law. She cannot equate the position of a Minister to a Deputy Minister. They are so different.

Secondly, perhaps she never had to carry a dompas. My first employment was at a notorious place in Durban called KwaMuhle. When I got there I worked with the ANC stalwart, Johnny Makhatini. It was a place where people were ordered to leave when they didn’t qualify to be in Durban. He taught me that you must use names that are always spelt wrongly, and so forth. That was the way we avoided sending people out of Durban. The mistakes you find in IDs today are old problems, which are as old as Matlosela. Don’t take it as if it is a new thing.

Having said that, let me highlight that Home Affairs is a unique department whereby all the people of South Africa who are born, unborn, married, unmarried, alive or dead, inside and outside the country, merely have to go to Home Affairs to obtain whatever they need. Therefore, our benchmark should be how to improve the situation.

Going back to the time that I am telling the member Kaylan about, I can say that Rome was not built in one day. We should be asking ourselves how much has been done. That is the key.

Let me give you the synopsis of what has been achieved or done in terms of service delivery. There have been registration campaigns. Up to 1,4 million children up to the age of 14 years have been registered. There has been a review of marriage legislation in collaboration with the South African law reform in as far as fraudulent marriages are concerned. A campaign to say, “Check your marital status,” was launched in August 2004.

More than 179 000 IDs were checked, 2 636 alleged frauds detected, and 1 979 fraudulent cases successfully expunged. Up to 18 000 citizens came forward to register their customary unions. Those men and women who want to do customary marriages are free to do it. It is the law of the country. Up to 68 hospitals were equipped with one line of birth and death registration facilities. Mobile units that were ordered were 67 and all of them have been distributed to various provinces.

Remember, there is only one Department of Home Affairs in the country, and Home Affairs has to move and come up with the strategy that meets the daily, monthly and yearly demands, and those of the years to come. The establishment of client service centres, such as the multipurpose centres, MPCs, that are visited by hundreds to obtain information and services, is a catalyst to our shortcomings in home affairs.

Offices have been expanded, and the plan to do more is in place. There has been great participation in the MPCs countrywide. There has been the launch of the “The Client is Always Right” campaign. There are ongoing talks and motivations to employees about changing their minds. On that, I suppose the members in the House are witness to this effect.

Today when you get to Home Affairs, wherever you go, you find a different attitude altogether. It is like when I go to the Empangeni police station. I made a remark and wrote to the director-general there. I find it wonderful when you come to a police station and the police personnel get up and say: “Can we help you?” That is the attitude and culture that this government has brought to this country. [Applause.]

That is what you find when you come to Home Affairs today. You find a different attitude altogether. As a human being, it doesn’t matter if you don’t obtain what you want, as long as you have been received with dignity and decency, which is what we need. It is a culture that has only been brought by this Department of Home Affairs. [Applause.]

Let me take this opportunity - my time is very short - and thank Mr Joe Tshabalala who is the DDG for civic services, for the stunning work he did for the stranded South Africans in China late last year. Three ladies … I am sure the Minister doesn’t get to know these mishaps. Three ladies went to China, and they were robbed of their belongings when they were in transit. They lost their money, they lost their tickets, and they lost their passports. These were all snatched from them.

I was contacted immediately, and when I got this call from those stranded South Africans, I called Mr Tshabalala, and he responded with vigour. He commanded Home Affairs in Shanghai to assist them. They were given money, they were given tickets and they were given passports, and they were able to fly back to South Africa. [Applause.]

Incidentally, a week later, one gentleman went to China again. At the airport in Hong Kong his passport was full. (Interjections.) I didn’t say so. You don’t listen. His passport was full and they could not paste his visa into his passport. They contacted me again, and I immediately called Mr Tshabalala and he did the same. This gentleman slept at the airport. He couldn’t leave the airport in Hong Kong. Mr Tshabalala immediately called our Home Affairs in Hong Kong, and this man got his passport and he proceeded into China. [Applause.]

This is a great achievement. That is why I have passion for service delivery, and the Department of Home Affairs has been able to do all this. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms N C NKABINDE: Madam Speaker, and hon members, the Department of Home Affairs is one of the departments that South Africans have to interact with on a regular basis. Out of necessity, citizens require a variety of services from the department. Whilst taxpayers fund this department to the tune of billions of rands a year, this does not translate into basic service delivery.

Any South African will tell you that their regular visits to the offices of the Department of Home Affairs are a long and arduous affair of endless queues and inefficiency. Perhaps we would be able to simply accept this state of affairs if not for the strikingly contrasting experience that we experience at other places. If we take, for example, the South African Revenue Service, Sars, which also interacts regularly with most citizens, despite the huge amount of people demanding service, the usual experience at the Sars office is one of efficiency, speed and even friendliness. Why can one government department achieve the Batho Pele objective so comprehensively, whilst another fails so dismally? South African taxpayers deserve better than what many home affairs offices currently provide.

Another example is the continuing corruption and incidents of identity fraud and fake marriage schemes. When can we expect this disease to be rooted out once and for all? The department’s record of dealing with illegal immigration has not been a shining one. Now we learn that officials of the department have been involved in a shadowy affair, wherein an individual was supposedly deported to Pakistan. Only, he seems to have disappeared.

The Department of Home Affairs is the custodian of many human rights entrenched in the Constitution, and it must therefore always be seen to strictly uphold and defend those rights.

It would be a terrible shame and a blot on the name of our country if it were to emerge that the department was involved in kidnapping somebody. Extradition and deportation procedures provide for legal and constitutional methods to deal with criminals or suspected criminals. Even convicted criminals are treated constitutionally. They cannot simply be handed over to unknown foreigners, flown off, and then disappear without a trace.

These are the tactics and the immorality of apartheid’s secret hit squads. They are indefensible and have no place in the new South Africa. Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, I am sure that the hon member who just spoke, reads too many newspapers. [Laughter.] We are honoured today to have to present our Budget Vote before this august House, to account for the progress we have made towards fulfilling the objective to deliver quality service to our people, and to table before you our plans for the new year.

We are mindful of the high expectations of our people and their impatience with the lack of quality and convenient service delivery. They are aware of the enormous challenges that they have to confront daily, in their quest to obtain home affairs services.

While we have witnessed a radical change in leadership vision and strategy, we have, at the same time, been witness to a great struggle between the old that is refusing to die and the new that is battling to be born.

What appear as intractable problems are in actual fact putrid and stubborn tendencies of the past that we can and must overcome. We have been candid in approaching these problems, mindful of the fact that while we did not create them, we, however, have the responsibility to resolve them.

At the heart of our services stands each one of the millions of South Africans to whom we must deliver a convenient and professional service. We have a strategic role to play in the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, to provide enabling documents to South Africans and foreign nationals, each of who are vital both to the pursuit of this programme, as well as the fulfilment of its objectives.

Our department is challenged to manage both civic services as well as international migration, to ensure that such management of migration leads to development - both for ourselves, as well as our neighbours.

In presenting this Budget Vote, we rededicate ourselves to the noble vision of the youth of 1976 and pay tribute to their heroism. In his book, The Wretched of the Earth, Frantz Fanon says, and I quote:

A government which calls itself a national government ought to take responsibility for the totality of the nation; and in an underdeveloped country the young people represent one of the most important sectors.

Accordingly, as our contribution to deepening youth participation and development today, and in partnership with the Department of Education and other partners, we have embarked on a national campaign targeting students to raise their level of social consciousness and civic responsibilities, and have thus far been to three provinces.

In addition to this and in order further to raise our capacity to discharge our responsibilities, we have implemented an extensive internship programme, recruiting 734 interns since 2004, and permanently appointing 213 of them. Currently, there are 280 interns in the department and we shall on Friday launch the National Youth Service Programme by recruiting 300 unemployed matriculants for placement in the frontline offices, mobile units, MPCCs and hospitals.

We have also deployed the mobile units to schools in various provinces to assist the learners to obtain birth certificates and IDs. We shall continue to expand this programme. [Applause.]

We have continued also to provide hands-on leadership to the Film and Publication Board, FPB, the Government Printing Works, GPW, and Information Services Branch, and continued in all these organisations to consolidate the leadership and management structure, making new strategic recruitments and enhancing the capacity of the provinces. At GPW, we have filled the key management positions crucial for the optimal functioning of the institution and addressed the challenges of personnel and human resources, thus stemming the loss of qualified personnel and artisans, as well as attracting the right calibre of people to enable it to attain its goals.

We shall continue during this year, vigorously and purposefully, to implement the Human Resource Development Plan, to continue to build the capacity of the GPW and FPB, and modernise and transform them, paying attention to the question of what type of people we are recruiting, what are their competencies and skills levels and what value are they going to add to our organisations. We are proceeding to enhance the professionalisation of these institutions through training, including for examiners in the FPB.

We have continued to pursue the ideal of e-government in order to provide integrated and convenient service to citizens through the use of information systems, with the intention to transform home affairs into the model user of ICTs.

This relates to the deployment of 67 highly equipped mobile units, the computerisation of our offices at home and abroad, linked to our mainframe, the installation of vital registration computer equipment in hospitals and making progress towards live capture and integrated client service consoles.

Towards this end, we will complete the Back Record Conversion by June this year and complete the absorption of the records into the Hanis System in

1. I am sorry about that.

During 2007, we shall both begin to pilot the e-passport and finalise outstanding issues regarding the Smart ID Card. We shall, before the end of 2007, launch the Live Capture pilot project in the Northern Cape and, in due course, extend it to all our offices countrywide, which will, in the fullness of time, serve to eliminate manual applications and paper-based workflow processes, which have caused files to get lost, names, surnames and dates of birth to be wrong and many other problems.

This will put an end to archaic workflow processes, such that in future when looking at home affairs today, people will look at it as a Jurassic Park.

During the past year we adopted the turnaround strategy for the FPB and began to implement it. We have also begun to strengthen compliance with corporate governance principles within the FPB. There is now a fully functional audit committee and we are happy to have had a clean report in the previous financial year.

The campaign against child pornography continued to receive our close attention, and we pursued it vigorously, further raising its profile throughout the country through a variety of activities, including conducting training for public prosecutors, forging strategic partnerships, enhancing the call centre and recruiting more compliance monitors.

We are happy to report that compliance with the Act in general has drastically improved and mobile phone operators adopted a code of good practice to protect the children. We shall further seek ways to bring broadcasters and the print media within the classification framework. We shall also finalise this year the long promised ministerial task team on child pornography.

During this financial year, we will further make the FPB fully compliant in respect of corporate governance by appointing both the chairperson and the deputy chairperson; pursuing the recommendations of the forensic audit; and recommending comprehensive legislative amendments, which will also impact upon the structure of the board.

During the previous year, we took new and further strides to strengthen, reposition and transform the GPW to function like a business, addressing the problems that hitherto existed.

The Ministerial Advisory Committee we had established to further advise us on the conversion of the GPW has completed its work and handed over to us its report containing its recommendations. We shall soon take to Cabinet our recommendations, with the intention to convert the GPW into an efficient and effective specialist security-printing agency.

To ensure maximum security printing of all security items, in conditions requisite to support the processes of such scale, we shall complete the relocation of the GPW to a specially designed complex by December 2007. It is our intention to move the production and printing of all security documents under the precincts of the GPW, to ensure that it happens under maximum security in order to drastically reduce human intervention and maximise the integrity of the process as a whole.

Many of our people treat their identity documents and passport documents with frightening flippancy, losing them easily and without care, hence resulting in many undeserving people fraudulently obtaining our citizenship. We must take this opportunity to issue a clarion call to all South Africans to respect and protect their identity documents and passports and not lose them easily.

Furthermore, we must appeal to them, even those who may not think they would ever travel abroad, to apply for regular passports in order to eliminate the need for temporary passports. In time, we may have to do away with the idea of temporary passports as this system is greatly abused, difficult to manage and is causing enormous security and integrity challenges internationally.

The GPW, working with home affairs, is developing additional security features for all our security documents in order to enhance their integrity. In view of the fact that technological improvements occur at a very fast pace, and bearing in mind all the challenges the GPW shall in future face, a machinery and equipment replacement programme of about R95 million shall commence this year.

The forensic audit was completed and action shall continue to be taken during this financial year through involving relevant law enforcement agencies and, at the same time, taking necessary disciplinary action against certain members.

Furthermore, we shall expand the GPW into Africa, seeking to establish strategic partners through developing unique capabilities; develop a comprehensive transformation strategy for the organisation; develop research and develop capacity; and continue to enhance all-round security, both in terms of systems and processes of printing and production.

It is obvious from our plans that we know what to do; we know how to do it; and we know why we should do it. Recently, a bank advert on TV indicated that there would never be empty queues at home affairs, and indeed we agree, because there are more people who need home affairs services than they would ever need the banks.

Our challenge is not to finish up the queues, but to manage them better and efficiently, and in the process ensure that the services rendered are convenient and efficient. It is correct that our people should be impatient for change and it is correct that they should criticise us; as much as they can and as vociferously as they should, so that we do not become complacent but continue to be kept on our toes.

The problems that we are dealing with have been raised with us a million times by many of our people we have interacted with in our offices during izimbizo and other sessions when we interacted with the staff and officials of home affairs. We know them very well; we are facing up to them; we are courageous enough to admit and concede to them and we promise that we will, and shall deal with them decisively.

Our challenge is to retain our singular gaze at a comprehensive and sustainable solution to the problem and harness and fire with enthusiasm all the progressive forces for change we can muster in the department to discharge our common responsibility.

I wish to thank the Minister, the staff of the Ministry, the director- general and his entire team, as well as the CEOs of the FPB and GPW, the chairperson of the portfolio committee and the entire committee, as well as my wife and family for all their support and tolerance. [Applause.] Ms N F MATHIBELA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, let me state upfront that the ANC supports the Budget Vote. The department’s activities are divided into four programmes, namely, Administration, Services to Citizens, Immigration and Auxiliary and Associated Services. The focus of my discussion will be on Auxiliary and Associated Services.

The Auxiliary and Associated Services Programme comprises of the Film and Publication Board, the Independent Electoral Commission, the Government Printing Works, the Government Motor Transport, which is responsible for the purchase and maintenance of the department’s transport fleet, and the property management, whose task it is to manage buildings that are occupied by the department across the country.

Due to time constraints to focus on all components of the Auxiliary and Associated Services Programme, I will only discuss the following three: the Independent Electoral Commission, the Film and Publication Board and the Government Printing Works.

The Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, was established under Chapter 9 of the 1996 Constitution to assist in strengthening our constitutional democracy through the delivery of free and fair elections. To date, the IEC has contributed immensely and decisively to the credibility and stability of our democracy.

Over the last three national and local government elections, the IEC had not only highly impressed those of us supporting the development of democracy in the country, but also those pessimists amongst us who do not believe that South Africa has what it takes to grow into a leading democracy. All our elections have been bluntly free and fair. Furthermore, the IEC has continued to ensure optimum service delivery to our people.

During the first local government elections in March, the IEC increased voting stations from just under 15 000 to 17 000 for the the 2004 national and provincial elections just fewer than 15 000 during the 1999 national and provincial elections.

The increase in voting stations was necessitated by the high number of voters registered to vote, as well as the commission’s commitment to improve the service delivery to rural as well as informal settlement’s communities, by bringing voting stations closer to our poor communities and thus ensuring that our people no longer have to travel long distances to reach voting stations.

The commission’s budget for the year 2005-06 was accordingly increased by R160 million. The IEC’s track record has not entrenched the stability of our democracy, but has also made the commission one of the most sought- after South African products. As we speak, the commission is assisting the Democratic Republic of the Congo in organising and managing its elections. The commission has also contributed to the electoral process of various African countries and indications are that this will continue to be the case.

The department salutes the sterling work done by the commission and remains committed in supporting the commission in carrying out its duties.

The second component of the Auxiliary and Associated Services Programme I wish to deal with is the Film and Publication Board. This is a body established to, amongst others, regulate the creation, production and possession of, and to fight the scourge of child pornography in our country by ensuring that children are neither used in pornographic films nor exposed to pornographic material.

Rapid technological developments have sadly made it even more difficult for the department through, amongst others, the Film and Publication Board, to fight the scourge of child pornography as well as exposure of our children to pornographic material.

Different suppliers of pornographic material have used loopholes in legislation to distribute pornographic material without putting in place measures aimed at minimising children’s exposure and/or access to such material. There is, therefore, a need for the Films and Publications Act to be amended in order to tighten the screws on child pornography. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, hon Minister, last year the ACDP supported the department’s Turnaround Strategy and its Budget Vote, notwithstanding various reservations and the qualified Auditor-General’s report. It must have been a shock to you this year with the Auditor-General’s disclaimer and clearly, in our view, your department has let you down.

One of the main deficiencies, as pointed out by previous speakers, relates to the failure of the Internal Audit Committee to timeously alert management to severe internal control weaknesses. It is clear that for the reporting period, the internal audit division did not operate effectively, if at all, and it is regrettable that the chairperson of this internal audit division did not appear before the portfolio committee.

Indeed, the Attorney-General points out that up to the time of his review in August 2005, no internal audit report had been issued relating to the period August 2004 to March 2005 - almost in excess of six months. This is the crux of the problem. There were alarm bells expressed by both the audit committee - that is not the internal audit committee but another audit committee - the previous Attorney-General’s Report, as well as the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, but these were not responded to, resulting in the disclaimer by the Auditor-General.

It is disgraceful that notwithstanding this clear evidence of significant financial accounting deficiencies, the department was trying to explain and introduce the middle steps and also tried to attack the integrity of the Auditor-General’s office. It is important to note that this is a Chapter 9 institution and independent and one of the organs of state that should protect the impartiality, dignity and effectiveness of this institution.

However, we welcome your urgent interventions and we trust that the invoking of the Public Finance Management Act provisions to obtain treasuries´ assistance will assist and rectify the situation.

Whilst we appreciate that there are severe challenges facing this department, on behalf of the ACDP we would like to thank all those dedicated staff members for their committed and hard work in the department. There have been significant improvements in a number of areas as explained by the department and we look forward to an unqualified clean bill of health from the Auditor-General in years to come. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr W M SKHOSANA: Chairperson, Minister of Home Affairs, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Ministers, directors-general, deputy directors-general and staff members of Home Affairs, South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. This is a clause in the Freedom Charter. It is also the responsibility of Home Affairs to ensure that that happens.

The transition to a democratic state and the restructuring of apartheid institutions is proving to be a lot more complex and challenging than anticipated. The challenges of the global environment and South Africa’s engagement with both international institutions and world powers have multiple impacts on the development process, persistent poverty levels and the continuing vulnerability of children. The Department of Home Affairs is seeing to it that when a child is born its birth certificate already contains identity document numbers, which was not the case before.

The development imperatives, as voiced by people at all levels, challenge the government to respond in a significant way to the needs of the people, but government’s capacity is constrained by a number of factors. These factors include the structures and management. Also, when the national budget is drawn up, it has to provide for South Africa’s internal and external debt.

The Turnaround Strategy represents a dream of Home Affairs for the future. This, in combination with effective leadership, can create the energy that is required to make this happen. If you combine the energy that the Minister is putting into her work with the energy that the department is supposed to bring to ensure that the turnaround strategy becomes a reality, we can achieve the dream that we all want to see.

The government does not function in isolation but is inevitably part of the integrated governance system. This is one of the aspects that this government and this organisation are looking into. You cannot deal with Home Affairs in isolation from other departments, because of each and every document that a South African citizen needs. Our population of about 44 million people, black and white, are looking to Home Affairs, and they all want to identify themselves as citizens of this country.

Through optimum utilisation of information and technology, the department can address the service delivery required by different business areas. One of the main strategic areas of the department is the development of information technology and systems to improve service delivery to all stakeholders, as in the case of the Hanis project.

The strategic plan of the Department of Home Affairs seeks to address all these challenges. The Department of Home Affairs, together with the Department of Foreign Affairs, have put corrective measures in place regarding the vouchers. We note the disclaimers by the Auditor-General. We welcome the controls that are being put in place. We also welcome the measures, which are being taken by the department in terms of section 45 of the Public Finance Management Act. We appreciate and welcome this.

We also welcome the efforts by the director-general and the department, in order to avoid another disclaimer, to ensure that important documents which may be needed for auditing 2005-06 are placed in a secure filing room. It is important to accept that we are looking at these challenges. We are going to address them, and we are going to win at the end of the day.

In saying that the Department of Home Affairs cannot work in isolation, we also note that we are not only looking at the citizens of this country, but we are also dealing with people who are coming into this country as tourists. It is the responsibility of the Department of Local Government to see to it that those people get a proper reception at immigration and get correct documentation, so that we can know who is in and who is out.

It is important that the Department of Home Affairs should have each and every person’s data in the Hanis system. It has been in existence since 1996, but even though it takes time, let us be patient, because we don’t want to enter wrong data into the system. [Time expired.] I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, hon members, for any country to attract immigrants or even tourists, the Department of Home Affairs should be operating well, because any entrant into a country meets Home Affairs employees first at the ports of entry.

Our position is that any leader accepts the position with assets and liabilities, and therefore we don’t accept fingers being pointed at past leaders of the department. We note, however, that the Minister is taking full responsibility.

The UCDP would like to commend the department on mounting the “Lokisa Ditokomane” campaign, which benefited thousands of people by correcting their surnames, first names, additional names and dates of birth. It is unfortunate, however, that even with the best efforts and intentions, some cases still fall between the cracks, as in the case of the young man who, in frustration, ended up holding an official hostage in Johannesburg.

Another feather to add to the cap of the department is the fight against fraudulent marriages and the tacit agreement with the Department of Justice to expunge such marriages from the roll as soon as it is established that they are fraudulent.

We applaud the steel muscles developed by the Deputy Minister against child pornography. This makes us in the UCDP feel there is a willingness to regenerate morality. This measure has our full support and puts paid to the chatterboxes who say they are not Christians and will not heed the Ten Commandments.

From a humanitarian point of view, the UCDP laments the plight of refugees and asylum seekers. These people in need are not taken quite as seriously as they should be by bureaucrats in the department.

While good progress has been registered in some fields, there is great concern about the financial accounting practices of the department, as has already been said. It seems the department finds it difficult to rid itself of qualified Auditor-General reports. Year in and year out Home Affairs is pointed at.

The filling of vacant managerial posts and the creation of more posts in the department sounds good, but if these incumbents do not deliver, that is money down the drain. The government should not be equated with or mistaken for a breeding place for fat cats. There is work to be done. [Time expired.] Thank you.

Mr S S VUNDISA: Chairperson, hon Ministers, Minister of Home Affairs, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, distinguished guests, as the ANC we support the Budget Vote. Home Affairs is the home for all, even the homeless. Home Affairs is the backbone of the country. Home Affairs remains a gateway to access services and will be forever. These statements define the way society views and values this department. This is the home that defines love and extravagance to society at large. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the contributions of our provincial managers and provincial directors. I recognise the gallant spirit of the DG, the DDG’s development cadres, who ride in his shade with the principles of Batho Pele.

During the state of the nation address in 2006 the President said that government must focus and pay attention to achieving a better life for all. This will be realised through efficient and effective service delivery. This requires the department to continue its efforts of skills development, human capacity-building, a well-functioning infrastructure and more importantly, the department must ensure that its branches serve the people and are accessible.

Indeed, their work and the work of the portfolio committee remain critical to integration and the implementation of our goal of providing comprehensive service delivery, that will ultimately ensure that the mandate of a better life for all as advantaged by the ANC-led government, is realised.

Sihlalo, uRhulumente okhokelwa liSebe lezeKhaya ukwazile ukumisela inkqubo yokunikezwa kweencwadi zokuzalwa kwabantwana kwizibhedlele ezingaphezu kwama-50. Le nkqubo inceda abantwana abangama-27 898. UmPhathiswa weSebe lezeKhaya uye wagxininisa wafakela iicomputerized mobile units ezingama-67 zona ezisasazwe ngokwamaphondo ukuncedisana nabo abangakwazi kufikelela ezidolophini ukuze bafumane iincwadi zezazisi, iincwadi zokuzalwa kunye neencwadi zabo bathe itshoba lalala umbethe. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, the ANC-led government has launched a project that will provide certificates in more than 50 hospitals. This programme will benefit 27 898 children. The Minister of Home Affairs has insisted on establishing 67 computerised mobile units in all provinces to produce IDs, birth certificates and death certificates, thereby meeting the needy people who cannot reach the towns.]

As the ANC we believe that the Department of Home Affairs will continue to proceed to identify members of the population and grant them specific rights and powers. The department will speedily take some drastic measures to distribute IDs through post offices and also use mobile units. Home Affairs will continue to provide ID documents to the poor and the marginalised to have the right to vote and that can be extended to grade 12 learners, before they start writing their final examination; to have a right to receive social grants, to have a right to foster grants, to have a right to disability grants and to receive old age pensions. Home Affairs will proceed with the issuing of passports to enable international journeys as well as investors to travel overseas. The department has managed to establish satellites and new offices throughout the country.

During August 2004 our Minister launched the checking of marital status campaign to ensure that our fellow South Africans are not fraudulently married to illegal aliens. The department had received a total of 179 123 marriage status enquiries and 2 636 alleged fraudulent marriages were identified. Home Affairs has prompted citizens to register customary marriages.

Our Minister also launched the Lokisa Ditokomane/Lungiza Izincwadi Campaign. This can be attributed to the legacy of our past apartheid system to print our names and surnames incorrectly.

As the ANC we seek to pronounce clearly to those who seek to stall and undermine the transformation agenda, that they have no powers in South Africa. As the ANC we draw our mandate from the masses. We do not draw our mandate from the pollsters as others, who deny the poor and the marginalised farmworkers access to the right to a dignified burial and birth certificates. Furthermore, they ploughed over their graves so that their graves could not be identified and unveiled. Some of them are still tailing behind their forefathers as shadows, who are architects of a segregated identity document.

The continual threat and behaviour shown by the DA is bad news for South Africans, as it is clear that they do not care about the interest of the poor masses of our country.

Mr M J ELLIS: We do; that is why … Mr S S VUNDISA: Instead they represent a wealthy few, with exclusive interests. The people of South Africa and the South Africans in particular, they must never forgive the DA for their bad choices. [Interjections.] During the public hearings it becomes clear that they favour the status quo. This was indicative of the fact that they advocate the continued marginalisation of the previous disadvantaged majority of our people. On that note, Kalyan, the ANC continues to be the political home of all, black and white, united in determining the future …

Mr T D LEE: Chairperson, is it Mrs Kalyan or the hon Kalyan?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, will you address members as “hon members”.

Mr S S VUNDISA: It depends. It is Mrs.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, will you address members as “hon members”.

Mr S S VUNDISA: Honourable, honourable.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, please proceed with your speech.

Mr M J ELLIS: It is not worth listening to. Mr S S VUNDISA: I would like to tell hon Kalyan that she must respect our Minister and our department. She must not run to the papers. [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr T M LIKOTSI: Chairperson, the Pan-Africanist Congress of Azania welcomes the budget estimate as tabled before us in this House. The Department of Home Affairs has many challenges and increased financial injections in this department will assist towards addressing some of these challenges. The topmost challenge from the PAC of Azania’s perspective is the inability to provide IDs to orphans and displaced citizens. As a result they forfeit the right to grants and pension payouts.

There is drug trafficking, smuggling of illegal goods, pirate copies, bank robberies, abductions and murders, such as the one of the late Leigh Matthews, child abuse, pornography, etc. Suspected immigrants mostly do all of this. Home Affairs has no systems in place to monitor and control the movements of these immigrants as soon as they enter our country legally or otherwise. There is a systematic strategy of gang-raping women, as seen when two Indians this weekend abducted and gang-raped a youth of 20 years old in Bloemfontein.

Some of the offices of Home Affairs are not client-friendly. In Bloemfontein the offices are situated at the upper level. The aged and disabled are not comfortable in accessing these offices through lifts or stairs. Some of these offices are still located in the cities and towns, while the majority of their clients live in the townships. In essence, they are forced to pay indirectly for acquiring the IDs, death and birth certificates through transport and food money they have to spend to travel to these offices.

The issue of service points in small towns has to be revisited. It is risky for officials who have to drive to these points, as they are exposed to criminals. They carry the income of the day and that will only be deposited at the bank the following working day. A case in point here is Mantsupa in Ladybrand and many other such areas in the country. The PAC supports the Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF acknowledges the department’s challenging task to protect and uphold the identity of every citizen of South Africa and every person resident in South Africa. It is to an extent discouraging that the media constantly discloses ID forgery and corruption. We would have hoped that by now the problem would be contained, but it appears that the department needs to toughen its stance on these corrupt officials and offenders.

The MF acknowledges the department’s strategies, goals and objectives and in our view the department is on the right track to turn around the dilemma of Home Affairs in South Africa. We note the department’s decrease in budget to be well reasoned after the transfer of funds to the IEC last year, and we thereby support the allocation made to the department this year to sustain its endeavours.

We question how the shortage of skills is being addressed through the department by the appointment of immigrants and why our largely unemployed desperately willing and seeking local residents cannot fill this gap. Also, what are these skills shortages and how is the appointment of such immigrants being monitored and maintained?

We do, however, see that the department’s objectives tie in well with the endeavours of government as laid out in the state of the nation address. We do believe that many challenges are evident but we are confident that with this year’s budget, the department shall overcome challenges in the sector to secure the identity of every South African, and provide us all with more efficient and effective service at our departmental offices. The MF supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mrs M M MAUNYE: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, comrades and colleagues, the ANC supports the budget. Our country faces developmental challenges. Meeting developmental challenges cannot be separated from the quest for peace and democracy in Africa and the world. This means that we must recommit ourselves to the injunction of the Freedom Charter that South Africa shall strive to maintain world peace and the settlement of international disputes by negotiations and not war.

Through the vision of the revolutionary Freedom Charter, 51 years ago, our people outlined the way in which to relate with the peoples of the continent and the world. The focus of my input in this debate will be on the immigration activities that our department has to deal with and our perspectives on immigrants.

We have acknowledged that our country faces a shortage of skills in certain critical areas. To address this challenge, and in addition to the skills development initiatives that are being taken, we also have to look elsewhere on the continent and the world. Born out of a colonial perspective of the past, there still exists a belief among some, that for us to fill the vacancies that arise from this shortage of skills, we should look at attracting only the European migrants.

As you will recall, the Department of Home Affairs has committed itself to improving its services and to better the lives of our people. The portfolio committee believes that in some areas the department is succeeding. Most of the things it promised in the last financial year have been done. The department has moved to transform and reorganise its immigration services.

The new national immigration branch of the department was launched in April last year. This aimed at making the immigration services professional and better positioning them to address both our domestic and international obligations. The work of improving the services that government provides in the ports of entry has started in earnest through the establishment of an interdepartmental border control co-ordinating committee, BCOCC, with the Department of Home Affairs as its convenor.

Among its tasks, the BCOCC will look at infrastructure development, and seek to improve the state of our border posts, as well as the working of the department, to ensure that all international airports have dedicated personnel at counters for the processing of travellers who hold passports from African states and western countries.

The national immigration branch was launched in 2005 and has the potential to radically transform and professionalise the department’s immigration function. After the passing of the Immigration Amendment Act, there has been extensive consultation on the regulations that are to be used in the implementation of the Act.

Some of the challenges facing the national immigration branch is the shortage of personnel, vacant senior posts, working abnormal hours, no uniform and equipment, and accommodation. We need to address these, Minister.

There is also a challenge of xenophobia. The department established a task team to deal specifically with challenges of xenophobia. However, its objectives have not been met. We have seen these tendencies here in the Western Cape, in Plettenberg Bay, where a Mozambiquean lost his life because of racial intolerance. [Interjections.]

The department needs to be represented by officials in countries where international organisations, such as the International Organisation of Migration, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, and the African Union, are based. This is critical.

In line with our international obligation, the department has also moved to reorganise the refugee affairs section, with a view of creating more capacity in the medium term. The department has also decided that given many perceptions held about the Lindela Repatriation Centre, both at home and internationally, it was time for the centre to be opened to the public to come and visit it. Since then they have addressed a number of problems that have been reported to us about the centre, and its work has been demystified.

The department has installed information technology capacity at the centre, to ensure real time verification of fingerprints at the centre, so that persons who are taken to the centre are verified and released as soon as possible. In the quest to encourage regulated human movement, the department has engaged in several bilateral engagements with most Southern African Development Community, that is SADC, countries, on visa agreements. We applaud this.

The release of the illegal Pakistani foreigner is a matter before the court, and it is a matter of great concern. On the issue of the disclaimer, the disclaimer is unacceptable. We support the proposal by the Minister and the chairperson of the portfolio committee regarding the corrective measure for the wrong that has been done in the department.

Ke tla rata ho bua ka Sesotho ka taba ena ya Xenophobia. Ha ke tsebe hore Xenophobia ke eng ka Sesotho. Ke bua ka baphaphathehi, e leng batho ba habo rona ba tswang dinaheng tse ahelaneng le rona. Ba balehetseng ka hare ho naha ya rona ka mabaka a itseng. Ho molaong, ebile jwaloka leloko la Matjhaba a Kopaneng (UN), ho tshwanehile hore batho ba jwalo re se ke ra ba nka jwaloka batho ba siyo molaong. Batho ba jwalo ba tshwanetse hore ba etse boitsebiso ha ba fihla kahare ho naha, hore boemo ba bona bo tle bo tsebahale.

Ke ka moo re batlang ho etsa kgoeletso bathong ba habo rona hore, ke nnete, ho na le batho ba leng ka hare ho naha ba se molaong, empa ho na le bao ba leng ka hare ho naha e le baphaphathehi. Batho ba jwalo ba taolong ya mmuso. Ke mmuso o tshwaneng hore o ba hlokomele o ba fe ditokelo tsa bona jwaloka ha re leloko la Matjhaba a Kopaneng. Ke a leboha, Modulasetulo. [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to express myself in Sesotho on the issue of xenophobia. I do not know what xenophobia is in Sesotho. I am referring to refugees, our people from our neighbouring countries who fled to our country for certain reasons. It is legal, as a member of the United Nations, not to regard such people as illegal immigrants. Such people should report when they arrive in the country, so that their status can be known.

We want to appeal to our people, it is true that there are illegal immigrants, and those who are inside the country as refugees. Such people are under our government’s control. It is the government that should take care of them and give them their rights, as we are a member of the United Nations. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

Mr M SWART: Dankie Voorsitter. Agb Voorsitter … [Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Chairperson …]

… I have listened to a lot of speeches by the ANC this morning and all I can say about all of them is that I don’t recognise the people that made them, because they are very different from the people that sat in the portfolio committee with me over the last few days.

Voorsitter, daar was verskeie aanvalle op vlugtelinge in die laaste tyd van mense wat hier bly, en die aanvalle en die redes wat aangevoer word is, xenofobie, of dat daar nie werk is, of dat hulle ons mense se werk afneem. [Chairperson, lately there have been various attacks on refugees who live here, and the reasons given for these attacks are xenophobia, or the fact that there are no jobs, or that they take our people’s jobs.]

And I see the hon Chauke even says it’s racist. How he gets there, only he will know. [Laughter.]

As die aanvalle xenofobies van aard is, is dit jammer, maar dit moet nogtans gesien word teen die agtergrond van die swak wyse waarop die Departement van Binnelandse Sake die beleid ten opsigte van vlugtelinge toepas.

Suid-Afrika se Wet op Vlugtelinge bepaal dat ’n vlugteling ’n persoon is wie se lewe in sy land van herkoms bedreig word vanweë sy ras, geslag, politieke oortuiging of ander redes. Sy lewe word bedreig. Ekonomiese redes, soos byvoorbeeld ’n gebrek aan werk in die land van herkoms, kan nie as rede aangevoer word waarna ’n persoon vir vlugtelingstatus kwalifiseer nie. Dit is ongelukkig juis hier waar die knoop lê.

Daar is op die oomblik derduisende mense in Suid-Afrika wat om vlugtelingstatus aansoek doen. Net die agterstand van aansoeke by die Departement van Binnelande Sake beloop tans honderde, duisende gevalle, maar in weinig van hierdie gevalle is daar nog omstandighede soos oorlog wat die lewe van aansoekers bedreig.

In die meeste gevalle kom die aansoekers na Suid-Afrika om ekonomiese redes en word dit bevestig deur die feit dat hulle gewoonlik deur ’n klomp lande reis om na Suid-Afrika te kom en hier om vlugtelingstatus aansoek te doen. As dit slegs om hulle eie lewens gegaan het of hulle eie veiligheid, sou hulle waarskynlik in die naaste veilige buurland om skuiling gaan soek het.

Bo en behalwe die amptelike aansoeke om vlugtelingstatus is daar natuurlik ook nog derduisende onwettige immigrante in Suid-Afrika, wat weens gebrekkige grensbeheer maklik oor ons grense gekom het. Heelwat persone kom die land selfs wettig binne, maar verdwyn dan eenvoudig in die sisteem. Net die Suid-Afrikaanse ambassade in Harare, byvoorbeeld, reik meer as 1 000 visums per dag aan Zimbabwiërs uit om Suid-Afrika te besoek en dit laat ’n mens wonder of hulle almal weer teruggaan na Zimbabwe.

Die ergste probleem is dat die departement nie oor die fasiliteite by ons grensposte beskik om daar en dan te kan bepaal of ’n persoon vir vlugtelingstatus kwalifiseer, al dan nie. Immigrante wat die Suid- Afrikaanse grenspos bereik, word eenvoudig van Suid-Afrikaanse reisdokumente voorsien en dan gevra om na Johannesburg of Kaapstad te vertrek en daar om vlugtelingstatus aansoek te gaan doen. Ook baie van hierdie mense verdwyn eenvoudig in die sisteem. Die teendeel, naamlik dat ons baie gevalle van goedgekwalifiseerde persone het wat weens rompslomp dit moeilik vind om ’n geldige werkspermit te bekom, is ongelukkig ook waar.

Om die situasie reg te stel wil ons dus voorstel dat die departement dringend aan die volgende aandag gee: Die daarstel van vlugtelingkampe en- kantore by ons grensposte sodat ’n persoon se reg om vlugtelingstatus vasgestel kan word voordat hy/sy toegelaat word om die land binne te kom; meer polisie, meer immigrasiebeamptes en, indien nodig, die ontplooiing van die weermag om die onwettige binnekoms van persone stop te sit; die oplê van swaar strawwe aan werkgewers wat onwettige immigrante in diens neem; sowel as aan korrupte amptenare wat teen vergoeding bystand aan immigrante verleen om die land binne te kom, om onwettig hier te bly, of van onwettige verblyfdokumente voorsien; die onmiddellike aanknoop van onderhandelinge met lande vanwaar vlugtelinge kom om sulke mense na hul land van herkoms terug te stuur, mits die veiligheidsituasie dit regverdig; en dat die departement dringend aandag moet gee aan ’n wysiging van die immigrasieregulasies om die rompslomp wat goedgekwalifiseerde aansoeke om werkpermitte moet deurmaak, te verwyder. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[If the attacks are of a xenophobic nature, that’s a pity, but it must still be seen against the background of the poor way in which the Department of Home Affairs is enforcing the policy in respect of refugees.

South Africa’s Refugees Act provides that a refugee is a person whose life is being threatened in his country of origin on account of his race, gender, political convictions or for other reasons. His life is being threatened. Economic reasons such as, for example, a lack of job opportunities in the country of origin, cannot be given as a reason why a person qualifies for refugee status. Unfortunately, this is precisely where the problem lies.

At present there are thousands of people in South Africa who are applying for refugee status. Just the backlog at the Department of Home Affairs at present amounts to hundreds, thousands of cases, but in very few of these cases circumstances such as war are still endangering the lives of applicants.

In most cases the applicants come to South Africa for economic reasons and this is confirmed by the fact that they usually travel through many countries to come to South Africa and apply here for refugee status. Had only their own lives or their own safety been at stake, they probably would have sought refuge in the nearest safe neighbouring state.

Over and above the official applications for refugee status there are, of course, also thousands of illegal immigrants in South Africa who have crossed our borders owing to poor border control. Many people even enter the country legally, but then simply disappear into the system. The South African embassy in Harare alone, for example, issues more than 1 000 visas per day to Zimbabweans to visit South Africa, and that makes one wonder whether they all return to Zimbabwe.

The worst problem is that the department does not have the facilities at our border posts to be able to establish there and then whether or not a person qualifies for refugee status. Immigrants who reach the South African border posts are simply provided with South African travel documents and then asked to go to Johannesburg or Cape Town and apply there for refugee status. Many of these people also disappear into the system. The opposite is unfortunately also true, namely that we have many cases of well- qualified people who, as a result of red tape, find it difficult to acquire a valid work permit.

To rectify the situation we, therefore, want to propose that the department pay urgent attention to the following: That refugee camps and offices be established at our border posts so that a person’s right to refugee status can be established before he or she is allowed to enter the country; that more police, more immigration officials and, if necessary, the defence force be deployed to stop the illegal entry of people; that harsh penalties are imposed on employers who employ illegal immigrants; that corrupt officials who, for their own financial gain, help immigrants to enter the country or stay here illegally, or provide them with illegal residence permits, receive heavy penalties; that negotiations are immediately entered into with countries from where refugees come, to send such people back to their countries of origin, provided that the safety situation justifies it; and that the department must give urgent attention to an amendment of the immigration regulations in order to remove the red tape that well-qualified applicants for work permits have to endure.]

In the advertisement by the department it seems that the backlog of refugees and asylum seekers refers to people who have been in the country for eight years and only now is their situation being dealt with. [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr M P SIBANDE: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, first of all I want to remind the hon member, Mr M Swart, that the issue that we are dealing with now started while some of them were still Ministers.

You have forgotten that a few years ago there was a problem in Mozambique, and most of the white Mozambican people ran to Mpumalanga, in particular. And you know what happened. You never accounted for those people whether you issued them with proper IDs or not. That is why these days most of the time you are fighting about immigrants. It is your own making. With regard to Mrs Kalyan, I will deal with you in my speech. You are fully aware that the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs has invited the department and the forensic audit to bring the report to us - and you know this very well. Today you are changing your tune as if it is something new when it is, in fact, a very old idea. You know clearly that the chairperson has even requested that tomorrow we should continue with our deliberations about the department.

I would like to dedicate this speech to my grandmother who was a storyteller, and to all the grannies who did not live to see and to enjoy the fruits of freedom from the trees. These trees were nourished by the blood of their sons and daughters who were maimed and tortured and died at the hands of the fascist regime.

Ugogo wayethanda ukusixoxela ngelinye ibhungwana elalibizwa ngokuthiwa uLibala. Ngolunye usuku uLibala wahamba nonina wakhe beya kwaninalume. Unina ka Libala wayezithwele, futhi ememe enye ingane,ngesandla sokunxele ebambe enye ingane, kwesokudla ephethe umphako wokudla, kodwa uLibala angaphethe lutho. Wayehamba ezidlalela kuhle kwesixhuma senyamazane. Kuthe bethi memfu kwaninalume, uninalume wababaza umhlola ngengane engancedisi unina wayo. Ulibala waxolisa wazicelela ushwele,wathi, ulibele ukulekelela unina.

Mgcinisihlalo, ngalokho ke ngalengxoxo ngibhekise kozakwethu ngapha, ukuthi ngasosonke isikhathi esinjengaleso laso inhlangano ka ANC iphethe ngapha nangapha, ukwuthulwa kwezinhlelo zentuthuko ,uhlelo lokuhlomulisa abantu ngokwezomnotho, nezidingo ezimqoka zompahakathi njalonjalo, izinlangano ezinjengo DA azenzi lutho, zinkemile nje, kuhle okuka Libala kodwa nazo ziyahlomula kukho konke I ANC ekuvunayo.

Mgcinisihlalo entwasahlobo kunenyoni ehaya kamnandi ethi phezu komkhono. Ngokujwayelekile kunabantu abalukhuni, bayazihlalela nje. Ngo 1994, uma uhulumeni oholwa I ANC uthatha izintambo zombuso, umongameli wokuqala, ubaba uNelson Mandela wathi wonke umuntu makafake igalelo lakhe umbusweni wentando yeningi. Asazize kubona ukuthi kusho ukuthini. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[My grandmother used to tell us the story of a certain young man by the name of Libala. One day Libala accompanied his mother to his uncle’s home. Libala´s mother was pregnant. She was carrying one baby on her back, holding the other with her left hand and on her right hand she had some provision. Libala carried nothing. He walked hopping about like the young of a buck. When they approached his uncle’s home, his uncle shouted in amazement at this child who could not help his mother. Libala made an apology, saying that he had forgotten to help his mother.

Chairperson, I compare this parable with my colleagues on the opposition side. While the ANC is busy working on various demanding projects, while it is busy launching development programmes, working programmes for economic empowerment, attending to important community needs and other things, parties such as the DA sit and do nothing. They are just observers, like Libala, whereas they also benefit from all the achievements made by the ANC.

Chairperson, in spring there is a bird, the red-chested cuckoo, who sings a melodious message announcing that people should start ploughing their fields. As usual, there are stubborn people who simply ignore the message. In 1994,when the ANC government took over, the first President, Mr Nelson Mandela, said everybody should contribute to democracy. We really do not know what that message means to them.]

Chairperson, the hon Kalyan from the DA is a member of the portfolio committee, and she knows very well what the position is in our portfolio committee with regard to this matter. For the past four years the Home Affairs budget was receiving qualification from the Auditor-General because of the challenges we have inherited from the past. We can change Ministers every now and then, but it won’t make any difference until we solve the problems the department itself is facing.

Lalela ke lunga elihloniphekile, sesadlula lesosikhathi lapho wena ucabanga ukuthi inhlangano ka ANC ungayithatha njenge siphungumangathi, lapho ufica khona okwamabhoxongwane, besibambe ngekhanda, bebuza bethi kukuphi eGoli, naso bese sidlalisa umsila sengathi siyezwa ukuthi kuthiwani, bese sikhomba nhlangothi zonke ungathi siyezwa kanti asizwa lutho. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Listen, hon member, gone are the days when you used to think that the ANC was so minor that you could handle it like the puppy that teenage boys would hold by the head and ask it where Johannesburg was. The puppy would wag its tail as if it understood what was being said. It would point this way and that way with its tail as if it had heard the question, when in fact it had not heard anything.]

The creators of this mess did not give any recognition to the indigenous people. You easily have forgotten that in your time there were no birth certificates issued to blacks and no marriage certificates either, and even traditional marriages were never recognised. People’s names and surnames were misspelt and dates of births were indicated incorrectly on people’s birth certificates.

It is only this government that started to recognise that people are equal. We are still in the processes of rectifying all of the above-mentioned problems that was left by you. We are now busy rewinding. The very same Minister that you are accusing is the one who started the campaign called Lokisa Ditokomane, which is part of this process of rewinding. [Interjections.]

Mama Kalyan, ngicela ulalele ngoba awufuni ukulalela, sewuyadlala. [Madam Kalyan, please listen because you don’t want to listen, you are now playing.]

With regard to achievements, it must be noted that most of the challenges facing the Department of Home Affairs were inherited from the legacy of apartheid. The pre-1994 Department of Home Affairs was racially fragmented. I would like to thank both Ministers and the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs for their efforts in transforming the department.

Their contributions managed to achieve a very prestigious goal by recognising indigenous people who were left to die without benefiting from the resources of their motherland. On 12 May 2006, the Minister of Home Affairs issued 200 IDs to Xhu and Khwe tribes in the Northern Cape Province.

It must be noted that the only time the apartheid government recognised them was for recruitment to serve in the SADF and Koevoet, for tracking MK cadres while crossing the boarders from neighbouring countries into South Africa.

I would like to go back a little to a certain Mrs N C Nkabinde who spoke here from the UDM. I would request that she come and participate and attend the portfolio committee meetings and the oversight visit so that she can understand home affairs. Because what you are talking about does not make sense. It looks to me like somebody wrote it for you. [Laughter.]

In reply to Mrs Inka Mars, we can’t make a mistake, not to mention the previous Ministers of this department and the problems that they have experienced - we are not going to make any mistake about that. We are talking about the issues, which were created by some former Ministers of the bucket system. We are busy redressing all those mistakes that we find ourselves in today.

Concerning the hon member from the PAC, I think he must be careful about xenophobia: It is just xenophobic because he does not have proof of some of the things that he said. If you have proof, Ministers have always requested that information should be brought forward. I don’t remember a single instance when the member brought forward the information.

Regarding service delivery, there are no issues challenging the department but we cannot undermine the progress in the department, for example, the child on-line registration, enhancement of social security, countercorruption and promoting security, improving South Africa’s global relations and participating in the integrated sustainable rural development programme and urban rural strategy of government.

Colleagues, another challenge that I would request we focus on is the airport itself. We are experiencing problems, and something must be done about some of the embarrassment that the foreign affairs department encounters in that people are treated with hostility which is causing an unnecessary impediment for investment in South Africa. That must be looked at.

Pertaining to staff, most government officials in top management were in an acting capacity – and I just want to underline that - but now they are employed. Most vacancies are now filled. And also concerning systems, our passport system with its security features is regarded as the fifth best in the whole world. That is why it is very simple to identify a forged passport. Lots of syndicates who are specialising in fraudulent IDs are also advancing in forging passports and, fortunately, they get arrested most of the time. [Interjections.]

I would be happy if Mrs Kalyan were to be so active even in the portfolio committee meetings. [Interjections.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: I am very active in the committee!

Mr M P SIBANDE: You are not. Don’t waste my time. In July 2005, 146 offices were installed with systems which linked them directly to the national office. The only problem that makes us unable to speed up the process is that most of our offices are situated in areas where we are still struggling to get electricity.

With regard to mobile units, we know that the vast majority of our population is living very far from offices of the department where they can get services. Therefore, the department continued with planning for the deployment of 67 fully computerised mobile units during the period under review. The mobile units will be distributed to the provinces as follows: Limpopo will get 10, Eastern Cape will get 10, the Northern Cape will get 10, Mpumalanga will get 6, Gauteng will get 6, Free State will get 6, North West also 6 and Western Cape also 6.

Bakwethu ngiphinde futhi ngicele ukuthi amalunga amanye lawa esihlala nawo lapha ekomitini ukuthi awolalela ngoba amakhanda abo alikhuni. Inkinga ayikho kungqongqoshe kodwa isemnyangweni nasesikhungweni kanye nasezindleleni zokusebenza esizitholile ezaqala ukusetshenziswa yini ngoba abanye benu uma ubabuza ngomlando obhaliwe wabo abesabi ukukutshela ukuthi baneminyaka engamasumi amathathu noma amabili kuhulumeni. Bebekade benzani sonke lesisikhathi. I ANC iyasixhasa lesisabelo mali. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[May I again request some of my fellow committee members to listen, because they are very stubborn. The problem is not with the Minister, but with departments and institutions and also with the methods of working which we inherited from you. When one questions some of you about their written history, they boldly say that they have been in government for 20 or 30 years. What were they doing all this time?]

The problem is not with the Minister but the problem is with the department, the institution and the systems that we found which you implemented. Some of you are not even scared, when asked about a CV and profile, to say they have been in government for nearly 40 years. What have they been doing all this time? [Interjections.] The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Interjections.][Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I want to start by thanking the chairperson of the portfolio committee and all members of the committee for their participation in the debate, but also to thank all parties which are not necessarily represented in the committee, but who participated in this debate.

I want to thank the portfolio committee for its patience with the department so that we could not table our reports and strategic planning in good time. I know that we erred, but nonetheless, you still spent time, even over the weekend, doing your work so that you could empower yourselves to participate effectively in this debate.

I want to thank the Deputy Minister for his support and the staff of the entire Ministry, both the Deputy Minister’s office and mine, for the support which they have given us to enable us to pull through in this department.

Hon members, I have noted all the issues and the observations you have made during this debate. Somebody said to me yesterday, when I was agonising over some of the issues and happenings in my department, that a pencil maker taught a pencil five important things. I don’t know where this comes from, but the five important things are: That everything you do will always leave a mark; that you can always rectify mistakes you make; that what is important is what is inside you; that in life you will always undergo painful sharpening, which will make you a better pencil; and that to be the best pencil, you must allow yourself to be guided by the hand that holds you. I just hope that the department, the Deputy Minister and I will take note of this.

I think this has been a learning curve for all of us, and an eye-opener, and I think the disclaimer opinion by the Auditor-General has helped us to understand and have a better insight, and to take corrective measures. It doesn’t matter how drastic and how painful they are going to be, but I think it has really assisted us to be on top of the department.

I welcome some of the suggestions which members have made during this debate. I want to comment on one or two, particularly the issue of the Immigration Advisory Board of the Minister. It is difficult, hon members, to appoint an immigration advisory board, because in the first place we have not disbanded the old advisory board. We have not discharged them because they have not, in the first instance, completed their work. They still have outstanding exemptions that they have to process. So, you can’t discharge those people before they have exhausted all their work.

I would have been the first one to appoint a new board. I would have been very happy to appoint my own advisory board. But you must allow the first advisory board to complete everything, to discharge all their functions and finish everything, in spite of the fact that there are new regulations that empower me to set up a new advisory board.

You can’t say to people, “Stop, I now appoint my new advisory board”, before they have completed the task they have been assigned. That is the reason we have not appointed a new advisory board. They must complete that process first and process the outstanding exemptions. I hope that is clear to everybody.

The second issue I would like to comment on, has been raised very sharply by the hon member, I think Swart, from the ACDP. This is the issue of the internal audit committee of the department. It is clear to us that our internal audit committee in the department is very weak.

It needs capacity because if we had had a strong and efficient internal audit committee, it would at least have given us some danger signals much earlier, and therefore we would have been able to anticipate that we are likely to have a disclaimer opinion. The fact that we could not anticipate this kind of opinion is an indication of the weaknesses within that structure, so I accept that we need to do something about it.

We are invoking that section in the Public Finance Management Act which allows Treasury to come in and give us some form of assistance. Of course we shall conduct an investigation into our own internal controls within the department, but Treasury will come in and render that kind of assistance, and will, amongst other things, conduct an investigation into the capacity we need within that structure in the whole area of our finance directorate.

Let me comment on the backlog project, because people tend to use the terms asylum seekers and refugees interchangeably. We do have a huge backlog of asylum seekers in this country, hence the interaction with refugee organisations and NGOs, which have been dealing with asylum seekers, and so on.

The reason we are launching this backlog project is precisely because we have realised that the backlog is huge and runs over years. We have asylum seekers who have been holding asylum-seeker documents for the past 10 years. We are making that admission here, we are honest about it, they have been holding those documents for the past 10 years and every three months they have to run to the nearest office to go and ask for an extension.

Now, what we have done is to take a decision to launch this backlog project, which will involve status determination officers, who will run a process that is parallel to the refugee directorate. The directorate in the department does its own work, and this project will be dealing purely with the backlog, because we have a backlog of more than 100 000 in this country.

The status determination officers will have an opportunity of sifting through those people who may not necessarily be asylum seekers. We also have economic migrants in this country, who want us to grant them refugee status, but in fact they don’t qualify.

So, the process of processing is actually very tedious. I remember, when we were consulting with the representative of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, who is in fact very supportive of the project, I was saying that we should maybe give ourselves three months for this backlog project. He said: “Minister, you are very ambitious.” To process just one person can actually take up to two to three hours, or even six hours. So you may find that one status determination officer actually processes three or four people per day, because of the kinds of questions involved and so on. We have taken the decision to have this backlog project because we realise the extent of the challenge in this particular area in this country. We are trying to deal with the problem, because we can’t afford to have so many asylum seekers roaming the streets of this country without the necessary documents. I know that some of them feel very aggrieved. They feel that it is a human rights issue. They feel that South Africa doesn’t care, and we are saying to them, we do care. We are a caring government, and we care about asylum seekers and refugees. Therefore we want your support for these backlog projects.

I am saying some of them have had these permits over a period of 10 years. But you may find that in fact some of them don’t even qualify to be asylum seekers. So, you may find that 10 years down the line a person may say: “I have been here for 10 years”, and may really believe that he is going to get his status as a refugee, but you may find that at the tail-end of the process that person may actually have to be deported out of the country. We want to thank the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees for his support.

Lastly, the hon member from the UDM ventured into the area of extradition and repatriation. He used both words, I suppose, because he doesn’t have the correct facts on the Rashid Khalid matter. Members must have noted that I deliberately did not refer to this matter in my speech. I left it out because it has become so sensationalised in this country, and it is a very sensitive matter, by the way.

We as a department and I as the Minister of Home Affairs have to deal with this sensitive matter, of an illegal person who has been deported and taken back to his country. [Interjections.] I don’t know about torture, maybe you should wait. At least you have the facts. I don’t know. I am the Minister and I don’t know that he has been tortured. [Interjections.]

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: You should. You should.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Oh, really. At least you know. But be careful! Wait until you get the facts of the case because you may be wrong. Now, here is a lawyer who has taken us to court to say: “Please account for the whereabouts of this particular person.” The same person is all over the place, in the media and everywhere, and is conducting a public campaign, mobilising you to really believe that he has been tortured.

In the department we don’t have the capacity, by the way, to torture people. We are not a police enforcement agency. Now, the same people … Don’t say ”sies”, I don’t stink! You know torture better than I do, by the way. [Interjections.]

Now, the same lawyer goes around and is conducting this campaign, and I am sitting here as the responsible Minister who is being taken to court. As a loyal South African, I am observing the sub judice rule. I am not supposed to talk about the matter and I am not supposed to be addressing the media about it, because I am waiting for my opportunity in court.

We have been filing in court, but the lawyer, who is the one who took the matter to court, is the one who is conducting this campaign, and who is all over, giving false information to the likes of yourself. You have chosen to believe it, rather than to wait for an opportunity for me to come and give a report to this House when the appropriate time comes.

I think this is totally irresponsible. We shouldn’t play politics on this matter, because it is a matter of national interest as well. We shouldn’t play pillow-politics on the matter because it is a security matter, it is dangerous and it is sensitive. Here is a man who is going around whipping up people’s emotions and actually trying to divide the nation. He is trying to suggest to the Muslim community that South Africa may actually be involved in purging the Muslim community in this country.

You must be sensitive in what you say and what you support, because it may be dangerous. Be careful! [Applause.] You are heckling about things you don’t understand. The last thing I want to mention is this issue of the Pakistanis. Again, here is a case of seven people who are illegal. I don’t want to attack the judiciary, but people are illegal and you take them to Lindela and you are told to release them. There is nothing you can do about it, but if those were Nigerians, or Mozambicans or Zimbabweans …

It doesn’t matter, you may be cynical, but I won’t be. I will address the matter because you are raising it. If they were Nigerians, Zimbabweans, Mozambicans or Swazis, or whoever from the continent, it would not have been an issue. [Interjections.] The court instructs us to release them and we do. You raise the matter and I don’t know what the context is, but they have been released, nonetheless.

But the point is that they are illegal. They are illegal because they have fraudulent documents in their possession. How far does the law go and to whom does it apply? [Interjections.] I want to take my seat. Don’t heckle about things you don’t understand. Educate yourselves first. Stop creating an impression that we are purging people here. It is dangerous!

The last thing is that hon members, siyabulela [thank you]

… for the support for the debate of the Budget Vote. It may be that people do not vote for the budget, but the fact is that there is participation by parties, because the budget is not an ANC budget. It is not a Mapisa–Nqakula budget. It is not the senior management of the department’s budget. In spite of the problems, this budget is a people’s budget because it is about the lives of the South African people; it about service delivery to the people of this country.

So, for that I am grateful because I know that the portfolio committee on Friday was really very upset about the fact that we only tabled the reports at that time. That is why I am going out of my way to thank you for your participation, in the first place, and for coming here to give us that support.

Of course, last but not least, even if he is not here, I want to thank Comrade Charles, because he has given me a lot of support during these past months. I really want to thank that comrade, and thank him with his children. Thank you! [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 12:52 and resumed at 14:07.

The SPEAKER: We now come to questions addressed to Ministers in the social services and governance cluster. I wish to remind members that questions will be taken for one hour today, in accordance with the resolution adopted by the House on 31 March 2006.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

MINISTERS:

                 Progress made in N2 Gateway project


26. Ms Z A Kota (ANC) asked the Minister of Housing:


  Whether any progress has been made in the N2 Gateway pilot project; if
  not, why not; if so, what progress to date?  N565E

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, the question is in relation to the N2 Gateway project. It asks whether we have made any progress there; if not, why not; and what progress we have made to date.

Hon Z A Kota, the N2 Gateway project is a product of government’s policy aimed at integrating the first and second economies in South Africa, as embodied in the breaking new ground comprehensive plan we adopted in 2004.

Arresting the growth of informal settlements and upgrading informal settlements is viewed by government as central to the realisation of sustainable settlements and development, and is a critical pillar of addressing the shelter needs of our people, restoring their dignity and citizenship, reducing vulnerability, ameliorating poverty, enhancing safety and security and ensuring that our people are as close as possible to economic possibilities.

Two issues to overcome regarding the realisation of this goal are: Firstly, urban settlements – reversing the trend, which up to now has exacerbated our situation concerning the marginalisation of the poor; and, secondly, achieving new models of intergovernmental relations and integration, ie the three spheres of government.

The basis of this project was to pilot the principles of the comprehensive plan. It is a national priority and is situated very strategically along the N2 to ensure that nobody misses it. It is visible, very close to the airport and very close to the city. Its close proximity to the city ensures that people who live there are close to economic opportunities.

We have now completed phase 1, with the completion of 705 social housing units that are rental accommodation. They have been completed and soft landscaping has been completed as well. The allocation of the N2 Gateway pilot units is the responsibility of the provincial department of housing, in line with our memorandum of understanding. This will be done in line with the database provided by the auditors, Nkonki PriceWaterhouse.

The allocation principle will be in line with the pilot project business plan, that is to accommodate 30% of people who live in back yards and 70% of people from the neighbouring communities. The province will determine the date of occupation without any pressure, as I insisted earlier on.

There have been a number of delays in the completion of the project due to challenges in construction complexities related to the building of such a huge project. There have also been challenges in co-operative governance.

These we have attempted to overcome by ensuring that we have regular meetings of the three spheres of government, that is myself as the Minister, the MEC for housing and the mayor of the City of Cape Town. We were meant to have our first meeting this morning but unfortunately this coincided with the NCOP’s sitting, and we therefore hope to have it on Thursday.

However, in view of all the challenges, Forum for MECs for Local Government, Minmec, who ultimately owns this project, has decided that phase 2 of this project which follows, will be entirely managed by Thubelisha Homes. Thubelisha Homes will operate along private sector lines and report very directly to Minmec and interact with M3.

Finally, despite the hiccups, the N2 Gateway project is a success on a scale that has never before been accomplished within the history of housing in this country. I would like to say I hope that Members of Parliament here will see it as such and ensure that we sell it as such. Thank you.

Nkskz Z A KOTA: Ndiyabulela, Mphathiswa, ngempendulo yakho ecacileyo. Ngaba uyavumelana nam xa ndisithi ezi zindlu zintle kakhulu, yaye zibonisa inkathalo yalo rhulumente nomnqweno wakhe wokubuyisa isidima sabantu? Icekwa lilele kubanini bezi zindlu, xa bengena kuzo, ukuba bazigcine zintle zisemgangathweni, njengokuba zinjalo ngoku. Enkosi.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZINDLU: Ndiyabulela, Zou Kota. Ewe, besikhe sathatha ithuba lokuba sikhe sithethe nabantu bethu, sizama ukubacebisa ukuba njengokuba sibabeke emgangathweni nje, siyathemba ukuba nabo baza kuyithatha inxaxheba yokuba nabo basincedise ngokuthi baziphathe kakuhle ezi zindlu.

Kwakhona, singurhulumente siyafuna ukuba basixhase kulo msebenzi siwenzayo, bangamameli bonke aba bantu bagqitha ngendlela bagibisela amatye kurhulumente. Le nto siyenza phaya kwi-N2 Gateway Project siyenzela abantu bethu, ukwenzela ukuba babe nempilo engcono kwaye babe kufutshane neendawo zokusebenza. Yonke le nto siyenza sifuna ukuba basebenzisane nathi side sifikelele apho sifuna ukufikelela khona. Kufuneka bangathi xa bebona uButch Steyn egqitha ngendlela phaya, babe bemlandela. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms Z A KOTA: I thank you, Minister, for the vivid reply. Do you concur with me when I say that the houses are beautiful and they show that the government cares about the people and its wish is to restore the dignity of the people? The ball is in your court, homeowners, to ensure that the houses stay as beautiful and up to standard as you find them. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: I thank you, hon Zoe Kota. We had time to talk to the people and explain that they must maintain the high standard of these houses and we hope that they will adhere to that.

Secondly, government is requesting their support and it will not listen to all the stone throwers. The N2 Gateway project is for the betterment of the people’s lives and it has to be as close to their places of work as possible. We want their support in order to fulfil our promises. We do not want them to follow the hon Butch Steyn when they see him. Thank you.]

Mr A C STEYN: Madam Speaker, the N2 Gateway project has basically kicked off because of the crisis due to the fires in the Joe Slovo settlement. [Interjections.] That was what brought it to light. However, 12 months later, we now hear that 705 houses have been built. All of them are unoccupied at the moment …

Ms Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The member is really lying to the House. The N2 Gateway project did not kick off because of the fires in Joe Slovo … The SPEAKER: Hon member, you are not allowed to say another hon member is lying.

Ms Z A KOTA: I am sorry. He is misleading the House.

The SPEAKER: He might be misleading the House. Maybe he is not aware he is misleading the House. Hon member, please proceed.

Mr A C STEYN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It was brought forward as a result of that crisis. However, 12 months later, there are 705 houses that are empty at the moment because the beneficiaries for whom they are meant cannot, in fact, afford those houses. How does this tie in with the Minister’s new plan for housing when those houses are priced beyond the means of the beneficiaries? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, this gives me the opportunity to, once again, educate the public, especially Butch Steyn. I am indebted to the previous mayor of the City of Cape Town, together with the MEC for the Western Cape and the previous Minister of Housing because, in fact, this project was started in 2004, long before my time in housing. I came in May 2004 and picked up where it was necessary for me to pick up, to give it the necessary status of national accreditation that it now has.

Fires broke out in the Joe Slovo settlement in April 2005. The project by then had been approved and had been given over to a contractor. What I want to emphasise to Butch Steyn, and I am hoping it’s for the last time, is this: Please, do not use this for political purposes. This is not the place. The reason why we insist on having intergovernmental relations - and now we have meetings pending with the mayor - is precisely to ensure that all three spheres of government are seized with the matter of ensuring that we can give decent shelter to our people.

This project was given over to a contractor in April 2005. Today, a year later, we have 705 units. That is on a scale we have not yet accomplished before. The quality of houses that we have; the integration that we hope to have, are aspects we have not yet piloted in this country. This is the first and it is a great success for me.

The pilot project started with social housing, precisely because this is what we want to do. We want to integrate social housing, affordable housing and low-income housing. If you read the documentation which you yourself approved, you will find that, in fact, this is an essential component of integrating all spheres of society and ensuring that, in this N2 project, we can put in that area the neighbouring communities which comprise of Bonteheuwel, Langa and all other neighbouring communities, including low and affordable income groups.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Minister, I heard you well when you said it is the provincial government that will be responsible for the allocation of the houses. I want to know what criteria are going to be used because there are people who say different kinds of lists are circulating around. On some lists there are people who claim that they have been waiting for 20 years. If there are different lists circulating around and there are people who are saying they lost their houses through fires, what criteria will be used to allocate the houses that are ready?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, it’s quite clear that the hon Meshoe only came in at the end of my presentation. Please give me the opportunity to read this: In line with the memorandum of understanding that was signed by all three spheres of government, ultimately the allocation belongs to the provincial government.

The allocation principle will be in line with the pilot project business plan signed by all three spheres of government to accommodate beneficiaries, which is 30% backyarders from the community there and 70% of the N2 settlement itself. The province will determine the date of the occupation and the province will ensure that the waiting list that has been created by auditors Nkonki PriceWaterhouse is adhered to.

Members here will remember that we made an announcement last year, arising from concerns from members here about the fact that the list was not a credible list. We asked an audit company to come and assist us, which we have just mentioned here. They have completed their work and this is the basis of what we are doing. We had several lists in the City of Cape Town. We needed to have them integrated. We now have a solid credible waiting list and we are using this as the basis from which we are doing the allocation. Thank you.

Mr T M LIKOTSI: Madam Speaker, my question to the Minister is this: The N2 Gateway project seems to be a very big success in this country. I think if this project could be extended to other provinces it would give an indication that the Department of Housing is trying to come up with a new structure of housing regarding our people. My question is: Is this the end of the RDP-style houses? If it is the end, how does the Minister hope to phase those houses out? I thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Yes, hon Likotsi, the N2 project is a success. Thank you very much. It is a success for me precisely because this is where we are piloting the new approach to move away from our RDP houses into a new kind of structure. We are working together with the NHBRC, that is the National Home Builder´s Registration Council, our regulatory body, to see if we cannot create a model out of this that we will replicate throughout the country, and which moves away from the basis that we have been using. The success of this will then be carried through to the other provinces.

I want to say to the DA that we may have taken a little longer than we expected, but the lessons we have learnt from this project have been invaluable. They will assist us, as government, to do things better. In fact, this has meant that we have saved so much by making sure that we get it right the first time. I thank you. [Applause.]

                 Eradication of informal settlements

1. Mr A C Steyn (DA) asked the Minister of Housing:

   (1) Whether, with reference to her reply to Question 797 on 6 December 2004, the Government is still on track to eradicate all informal settlements by the 2014-15 financial year; if not, why not; if so, what progress has been made towards reaching this target;

   2) what total number of the estimated 1 548 608 households in informal settlements have taken occupation of their new homes as at the latest specified date for which information is available;

   (3) whether, with reference to her reply to Question 575 on 17 September 2004, the N2 Gateway project in Cape Town is proving to be a successful test of the appropriateness and effectiveness of her department’s housing plan; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N582E

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, the hon Steyn is interested in a statement that he released some time last year, asking me if indeed I will live up to my promise that by 2010 I would have eradicated informal settlements. We responded to him and asked him to be very careful about the information that he quotes, because in fact the truth of the matter is that we had indicated that within 10 years, from 2004, we would have ensured that we have eradicated informal settlements. In our calculation, that puts us at 2014. So, we corrected that. We stick by that. This is the target we have set ourselves and we are progressing very well towards that target. We have made progress and we hope that with the support of all stakeholders we will reach that target.

Also, he wants to know, out of the estimated 1,5 million households in informal settlements, how many of them have taken occupation of formal housing. I don’t know where he got these figures. As I indicated in my budget, what we are doing is piloting. We compile a waiting list through the pilot project of Servcon Price Waterhouse to ensure that we have concrete data of how many people are still out there. We have not completed this. So, I am unable to explain to him how from his figures – and I have no idea where he got them from – how many of these people actually have moved into formal settlements.

What we have done, however, is to ensure that each province has a pilot project that has so far produced a number of formal housing – from Duncan Village to Nelson Mandela Municipality. All of these were very carefully laid out at the portfolio committee, which he did not attend. However, hon Butch Steyn, we are on track and we are making exceedingly good progress in all of these things.

The last question is about the N2 Gateway project. We are making significant progress, especially in relation to intergovernmental relations. We would like to make sure that the city council comes in and gives the necessary support to the N2 Gateway project, so that it is a success in the spirit of the Memorandum of Understanding that we have signed.

Mr A C STEYN: Madam Speaker, the Minister is a bit disingenuous here. She knows very well that the reason I didn’t attend the committee meeting was because I was overseas on parliamentary business. But be that as it may, Madam Speaker, the Minister is also redefining the word “success” here for us today. She claims the N2 Gateway project is a success whilst acknowledging that there are problems. Yet they have only achieved 705 houses in 12 months out of the targeted 24 000 over 18 months.

My question to the Minister was: Is the eradication of informal settlements still on track? She said yes. However, she could not tell us at that point what the total number of people who are in informal settlements is. It is still being calculated. So, I find it difficult to believe how the Minister can in fact say that the eradication of informal settlements is still on track.

Minister, my follow-up question refers more to Question 3. You have referred to all three spheres of government being part of this project. However, unless you said that in the last committee meeting that I did not attend, there is very little evidence on paper or otherwise, of any social amenities that will make this particular project a sustainable housing settlement like the one that you referred to in your new plan. What is happening with the other spheres of government with regard to social amenities such as education, health and all the others that the integrated communities need?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, it saddens me that I have to come here once again and repeat things that I have repeated to the hon member Butch Steyn. I don’t know whether he is under pressure from his party to ask questions. I am at a loss.

It was reported to the portfolio committee that when this N2 Gateway project was presented to Cabinet, Cabinet on its own suggested that we form an inter-Ministerial committee to ensure that all three spheres of government and all departments within government are at one in dealing with all the requirements of human settlements. There is an inter-Ministerial committee, which ensures that this is in place. There is a plan, which was given to you in the portfolio committee. And all three spheres of government are required to play a role in that. What more do you want me to say?

The N2 Gateway project is a success by any measurement. You can drive to the airport now, where people living in incredibly dilapidating structures, people were living in abject poverty, almost falling into the river; but we now have standing 705 houses which they will move into. You could not have done that at any other time within the space of time that we have been able to do it.

This has been a pilot project. The success of it is not only those houses there; it’s what we have learnt. Working together we can do it better and what we have learnt will make it faster and better for this government and for yourself as well. [Applause.]

Mr G D SCHNEEMANN: Madam Speaker, the Breaking New Grounds Strategy for housing makes provision to each province to have an informal settlement upgrading pilot project and a human settlement pilot project, and perhaps for the benefit of the hon Mr Steyn, these pilot projects are meant to pilot in a new direction in terms of housing delivery and the upgrading of informal settlements. They are also meant to help identify and provide solutions to prices in the housing chain, which may be slowing down the housing delivery programme.

My question to the Minister is whether these pilot projects are helping to improve the implementation of the Breaking New Ground Strategy and whether they are helping to identify processes which need to be streamlined?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, yes indeed that is exactly what it is that we are piloting and how we will be able to ensure that this unfolds. The three issues that we have been able to identify over the past year are very important to deal with. The first one is the issue of policy. You will understand that there has been very little in terms of various specific improvements to housing policy. What we have done now is to ensure that we can have additional focus on the integration aspects on social housing.

We have also ensured that we can have additional pressure applied on the issue of land release. And EIAs, Environmentl Impact Assessments, has been a huge problem for us. We have now been able to ensure that we can work together with the Department of Environmental Affairs to fast-track this. We have also been able to enumerate people who are now in the waiting list. We have a credible waiting list, which we are now using to ensure that we understand how many people are out there and how many people are waiting for housing. We also have been able to identify institutional constraints. We have been able to identify what we need to do to ensure that we can remove bottlenecks that we have experienced, to ensure that we can fast-track this problem. We have also been able to ensure that we can integrate communities.

This is a new concept and we needed to actually practically put it on the ground to see how it is possible to do it.

Finally, we actually have been able now to sell the idea to the communities, especially the communities of Johannesburg, around which we have a very successful pilot project called Cosmos City. There we have been able to show South Africans that it is possible to have a low-income house next to an affordable house and next to a mortgage house, and that would not devalue the mortgage house.

I think these are very valuable lessons which we are setting and we thank members of the portfolio committee who have taken the time to go to these sites and give the necessary support to the provinces. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Minister, you have been quoted also as saying that 22 000 houses will be built in Cape Town within three years. Is this correct? Are you aware that Thubelisha Homes, the current contractor, estimates that it will take 67 years to complete the 22 000 houses? Are you also aware of the reports received by the Cape Town City Council that nearly two thirds of developers who worked on the N2 Gateway project will be suing the city of Cape Town for approximately R168 million for expenses incurred through the suspension of this scheme, and due to money being held up at provincial and national levels? How will this impact on the project?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, yes, I am on record as saying that we will complete these 22 000 houses within three years. I am certain that we will meet the target. We are through with phase one, which was the most difficult one, because this is where we were testing our capacity to deliver.

We have now removed the three spheres of government from direct intervention on the project, which has slowed it down considerably and we have given over to Thubelisha Homes, which is going to run along private sector development. I am certain this will ensure that we get the number of houses that we have targeted.

I am not aware that a number of developers are going to sue the city. However, we are ready to defend that - which we had to do because it was important we do it this way. But from my side I have been concerned about a number of things that have not been going right on the N2 Gateway project and I on my own have requested the Auditor-General to come in and assist me, audit exactly what has been decided was going to be done and why it was not done with the speed with which we had assumed it would be done, thus causing the kind of delays and unnecessary litigation that we have.

We will be dealing with this litigation, because alongside everything we have done we have been very careful to make sure that we attach ourselves to a legal firm that has advised us every step of the way. So, it will be possible for us to deal with this.

The difference between the interpretation that Thubelisha Homes and ourselves have had has led to the decision to ensure that we remove government from direct intervention in the project to give it to Thubelisha, because while we have learnt a number of very valuable lessons from this; it has slowed the process down considerably.

If you take government along the way that we have been doing, it would have taken the length of time that Thubelisha has indicated. However, we decided that we are going to do it differently. I announced it in my Budget Speech. We have given it over now to Thubelisha to do it along private sector lines and we hope that in that way we will deliver the 22 000 houses.

Dr P W A MULDER: Hon Minister, in this question the estimate is that there are about 1,5 million households living in informal settlements. However, you said nobody is exactly sure how many households there are in the informal settlements. My question is: What exactly is the policy on housing for foreigners entering South Africa?

The problem is that there are some statistics that show how many foreigners are in these informal settlement camps, and I think the reality is that at the end of the day South Africa does not have the means to really supply the whole of Africa with housing. We cannot finish this job and we will not be able to reach those dates of 2014.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, one of the reasons why we decided that we are going to ensure that we have integrated human settlement is to ensure that we can give choices to people who live in this country. And that choice is given to people who come here and for work purposes. These would be the foreigners. They have a choice. They can go into our social housing, into rental stock, rent the necessary accommodation that they need for whatever purposes, whether they are here on business or on holiday, whatever the nature of their business may be.

The only people that we provide housing for are South Africans. But if we go that route, it excludes quite a number of people, which the hon member has indicated might not be eligible to a house in the informal settlement, which would be foreigners. Therefore, we hope that as we proceed unfolding the human settlement’s plan there will be a stock of housing there that will be available for foreigners to rent, because they are not eligible for houses that we give out freely.

Restructuring of departmental line functions with a view to hosting 2010 Soccer World Cup tournament

1. Mr B M Komphela (ANC) asked the Minister of Sport and Recreation:

   (1) In light of the central role that Sport and Recreation South Africa will play in co-ordinating the Government’s contribution in hosting the 2010 Soccer World Cup tournament, to what extent have his department’s line functions been restructured to actualise the objectives of hosting the tournament;

   (2) whether any additional resources have been made available to capacitate his department’s execution of its mandate; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N566E

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Madam Speaker, as a matter of fact there’s a lot of revolution on the sports front. [Laughter.]

The question hon Komphela is asking us is: “To what extent have we restructured the department’s line functions to be able to carry out our responsibility as a central co-ordinating committee in the preparations for the 2010 Soccer World Cup?”

As the hon member would know – and I’m sure others know too – the functions concerning the preparations for the 2010 Soccer World Cup are a cross- cutting responsibility, cutting across initially 17 national departments and now 21. As a result of the period of negotiating with FIFA the actualisation of the hosting, it became clear that not only those departments that had signed the guarantees needed to come on board and make this party the ideal party that we all want to see it become.

To this end, we established a new unit within the department, called the 2010 Co-ordinating Unit. It is co-ordinated by a national government lead co-ordinator, who is at the level of a director-general. We felt this was necessary because he needed the kind of clout that would make sure that all departments took him seriously. This is how the Public Service works.

We also needed somebody who is very conversant with the functioning of the departments of the state, because if they do not carry out the guarantees that were signed by the Ministers in 2004, we will not be able to host a veritable Soccer World Cup in 2010.

Assisting the lead co-ordinator is a technical co-ordinator, who must make sure that the technical sectors of the departments are up to scratch with their own preparations. When we say that we will be ready to broadcast the soccer in 2010, they must make sure that the SABC, Sentech and all relevant role-players are in fact up to scratch with their preparations. They must make sure that the transport sector is ready with its plans and implementation of the road transport access to those facilities.

With him is a senior co-ordinator for nontechnical responsibilities. These relate to those other departments that must deal with such things as trade and industry, environment and tourism, home affairs, and so on. These do not need any provisioning of technical staff, but have to carry out functions in a particular way, which this House will discuss when it begins to discuss the 2010 FIFA World Cup SA Special Measures Bill before this House.

There are also junior officials, an administrator, a deputy director for communications, two secretaries and two support services staff members.

The hon member wants to know if we have made available resources for the execution of these functions. Yes, we have. Initially we made available R7 million for the unit to operate in the period June 2004 to April 2005. For the period 2006 to 2007 we requested R8 million. Yes, we have made resources available. Mnu B M KOMPHELA: Mphathiswa, ndiyabulela ngendlela owucacise ngayo lo mbandela. Mphathiswa, ndifuna ukutsho ukuba sesiphambili kakhulu ekumiliseleni izigqibo, nangona oko kwakucwangciselwe ixesha elizayo. Xa ke, Mphathiswa, kubonakala ukuba inani labasebenzi abakhoyo phaya alanelanga, sinakho na ukuba sibe asingexhalabi kuba siya kuba nakho ukumelana nemiceli-mngeni esijongene nayo? Ndiyabulela.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEMIDLALO NOLONWABO: Ndiyakuqinisekisa, mntan’ eNkosi, ukuba ilizwe lethu selihambe umgama omde kakhulu ukulungiselela le Ndebe yeHlabathi. Inene emsulwa, ngoku sesithe xhaxhe kwisigaba amazwe ngamazwe angazange afikelele kuso ngeli xesha lokulungiselela umnyhadala onje ngalo.

Umzekelo, bekufanele ukuba sibe sazisa ngamabala okudlalela ukuphela kwalo nyaka, ngoDisemba. Sivene neFifa ukuba oko singakwenza ngoMatshi kuba sesikulungele ukwenza oko.

Sivile kunxakanywa apha ekhaya, kusithiwa asinaso isakhono sokuphumeza usasazo lwemidlalo ngowama-2010 kuba imali ayikho. Inene emsulwa, mntan’ eNkosi, kukuba ngoJuni wama-2006, hayi ngowama-2010, iFifa isicelile ukuba siye kuncedisa ukusasaza eminye yemidlalo phaya eJamani. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Sikude lee kwizivumelwano ebesivumelene ngazo ngokubhekisele ekubeni sibe sesilungile.

Ewe, kufanelekile ukuba simane siyiphonononga indlela esisebenza ngayo. Ukuqala kwethu ngoJuni siqale ngabantu ababini kwela candelo. Ngoku sifunde ukuba sifuna abantu abaninzi nangaphezulu, abali-10. Kungenzeka ukuba emva konyaka wama-2008 sibone ukuba sifuna nangaphezu koko. Siya kumana siwuhlalutya lo mba, ukuze sibone ukuba abona bantu sibafunayo bangaphi na. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr B M KOMPHELA: I would like to thank the Minister for the way in which he explained this matter. I would like to inform this House that we are well under way with the implementation of the decisions that we took, even though they were scheduled to begin at a later stage. However, we would like the Minister to tell us whether, if and when we see that there are not enough people to work on the project, he thinks we would be able to meet our challenges. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: I assure you, hon member, that the country’s preparations for the World Cup are at a very advanced stage. We are much further ahead than other countries usually are at this stage of the preparations for such an event. For example, at the end of the year we are meant to announce the stadiums that will be used for the games. FIFA and ourselves have agreed to do that in March, because we are ready.

We heard people’s concerns about the unavailability of funds that then made them doubt our ability to broadcast the games in 2010. Let me remind you that just a little while back, in June 2006, FIFA asked us to assist with the broadcasting of the World Cup games in Germany. That was not in 2010. We are far ahead with the preparations. [Applause.]

Indeed, it is important that we should continuously review our functions. The co-ordinating unit started out with only two people in June. We now need as many as 10 people to assist in its functioning. We may feel that we still need more in 2008. As we say, we are going to review this matter in order to assess the programme.]

Mnr T D LEE: Mevrou die Speaker, ons het nou gehoor van die koördineerders, maar ander lande wat die Wêreldbeker aangebied het, het gewoonlik een persoon verantwoordelik gemaak daarvoor om die proses te dryf, en daardie persoon was gewoonlik ’n Minister.

Ek wil u vra, Mnr die Minister, daardie persoon moet tog aan die einde van die dag die politieke verantwoordelikheid aanvaar vir óf die sukses óf die mislukking van daardie proses. [Tussenwerpsels.] Nee, mnr Gert Oosthuizen, jy’t al weer inge-“chip”. Ons wil nie hê dit moet jy wees nie.

Daardie persoon moet die verantwoordelikheid aanvaar vir óf die mislukking óf die sukses van daardie projek. Ek wil u vra, mnr die Minister, of u bereid is om dieselfde te doen, om die verantwoordelikheid te aanvaar vir die sukses of mislukking van die projek? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, we have now heard about the co-ordinators, but other countries who have hosted the World Cup usually had one person responsible for driving the process, and more often than not that person was a Minister.

I would like to ask you, Mr Minister, whether at the end of the day that person should in fact accept the political responsibility for either the success or failure of that process. [Interjections.] No, Mr Gert Oosthuizen, you have chipped in again. We do not want you to be that person.

That person should accept responsibility for either the failure or success of that project. Mr Minister, I would like to ask you whether you would be prepared to do the same, to accept responsibility for the success or failure of the project?]

UMPHATHISWA WEZEMIDLALO NOLONWABO: Somlomo, ilungu eliya libekekileyo lixhentsel’ emva oku kukahili. Yonke le nto elithi masiyenze sesiyenzile. UMongameli weli lizwe unyule ikomiti yaBaphathiswa elawulwa nguSekela- Mongameli, obekekileyo uPhumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka. Nguye ophethe thina sonke phaya.

UMphathiswa wezeMidlalo noLonwabo usekela yena, kwaye nguye … [Uwele- wele.] … Hayi, Mnta’ kaGibson, ungabi yimpukane egxuphuleka elubisini, linda. Zifundise ukulinda ungalali.

USekela-Mongameli uncediswa ndim. Ndim ke onika inkcazo kuye nakuMongameli ngokuwa phantsi okanye ukuphumelela kwalo msebenzi. Kungeso sizathu ke ngoko sineli candelo loyondelelwaniso. Asifani namany’ amazwe, mfo kaLee. Amanye amazwe lo mnyhadala awubambe ngeemali zasemacaleni, iimali zeemanyano zemidlalo ezahlukileyo kwaneemali zoosomashishini bawo.

Eyalapha ekhaya imali iphuma kurhulumente, kula masebe ali-19 abhale phantsi, atyikitya ukuba aya kukhupha yonke imali anayo ukuze le nto yenzeke kuba yenzekela abantu baseMzantsi Afrika. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Madam Speaker, the hon member over there is taking us backwards. What he says we must do, has already been done. The hon President has appointed a task team that consists of Ministers, under the leadership of the Deputy President, hon Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka. She leads the process.

The hon Minister of Sport and Recreation … [Interjections.] Hon Gibson, please wait for your turn. Don’t just jump and talk like you were a fly in a cup of milk. Learn to wait and not fall asleep.

I assist the Deputy President. I account to her and the President. The co- ordinating unit was established for that purpose. We are not like other countries, Mr Lee. Other countries have managed to hold these games using private funds, funds from their sports organisations and businesses.

We can only depend on the government’s 19 departments that have committed to assisting with funds in order that this event can take place for the people of South Africa. [Applause.]]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon Minister for the reply. Cabinet, recently, announced its approval of the 2010 FIFA World Cup SA Special Measures Bill for submission to Parliament. This Bill is aimed at removing obstacles that might come in the way of South Africa meeting those guarantees that formed part of its hosting bid.

What are the relevant details with regard to the guarantees given by South Africa to FIFA as part of its hosting bid? And how will this new Bill affect the economy of the country and the general development of our communities? Thank you.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEMIDLALO NOLONWABO: Somlomo, ndiqinisekile ukuba nawe ulingqina lam, ngumbuzo omtsha lo, nombuzo okhawulela iinkawu zisiya kusela. [Kwahlekwa.] Kaloku yonke le nkcukacha umthanjiswa ayifunayo yile ndiza kuyidalanca apha xa sibeka la Mthetho uyilwayo phambi kwamalungu abekekileyo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Madam Speaker, you are my witness. This is a new question. I was coming to it. [Laughter.] I am going to provide all the information details that the hon member wants when we table the Bill before this House.]

The SPEAKER: We proceed to the next question, asked by the hon Rabinowitz to the Minister of Health. Because the Minister is not available, and would like to answer the question herself, the question will stand over.

We now come to Question 29, asked by the hon Kota to the hardworking Minister of Housing.

                    Blocking of housing projects


       29. Ms Z A Kota (ANC) asked the Minister of Housing:

  (1)(a)      How many housing projects have been blocked nationally and
             (b) what has been done to reverse this situation;
  (2)   whether any of the developers are held accountable in this
             regard; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant
             details?                                     N568E

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, in view of the interest shown in housing, I can only assume that if we were to respond to the President’s call of Vukuzenzele, I would get the entire National Assembly to assist us to build a village out in some informal settlement. [Interjections.] That would be good, yes. I will leave the Speaker to work out whether this is a standing challenge or not, in line with the Rules of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, this affords me an opportunity, in response to hon member Zoe Kota, to explain what we mean by “blocked” projects. We have had a number of challenges since the inception of the policy that we have been running for the past 10 years, on a number of fronts. Challenges include the issue of the delays we have experienced from the Deeds Office, the liquidation of developers, cash-flow constraints, procurement delays, environmental impact assessments, fraud, corruption and all of those things.

These are matters that we have experienced over the past 10 years, and at every stage we have discovered that there have been projects that have been blocked. These are therefore projects that we have inherited and they run at the level of 483. I take this opportunity to explain this, because from time to time the opposition has criticised this as somehow a failure of this period in our government, and in fact it is not. These are some of the constraints and challenges we have experienced, and we are dealing with them now.

These are the phases that we are now at. First, we have taken a decision, as Minmec, hon Zoe Kota, to ensure that we can divert a significant amount of money to unblock these projects. We have taken the necessary decision, and I am certain that the next time you go on your housing visits, you will see that most of these projects have now been unblocked, especially in the area of Mpumalanga.

Ms Z A KOTA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank you, Minister, for your comprehensive response. Is the Minister aware that the Treasury has agreed that 3% of the housing budget should go to management, and that the provinces can use that to equip themselves in terms of management and monitoring of projects? Will that be useful in terms of the future management of projects on the ground?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Yes, Madam Speaker, our biggest problem in looking at this issue has been the issue of project management. This we have identified, and we are grateful that Treasury has put aside this amount of money, but I am certain that if we increased the amount of money we have put aside, we will do even better. Our biggest problem has been shoddy workmanship, the corruption we found in the provinces, delays that we ourselves in government have caused, and a number of other impediments that we have put in the way of development. But I am certain that if we utilise this 3%, we will get the necessary project management that we need, and it will assist us greatly in this.

Mr S J MASANGO: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Minister, what I want to know is this: Blocked projects have been a problem for the Minister all over the country, but the most important problem is that there are developers and contractors who have fraudulently claimed money that did not belong to them, due to the blocked projects. Has the Minister blacklisted those developers and contractors, and if she did, is she going to make sure that those developers and contractors get no more jobs from this department?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, yes, I think that the hon member has been seized with matters of housing for long enough to understand that a number of provinces have, independent of me, ensured that we deal with this problem. The report from Limpopo dealing with corruption in housing has been made available to the portfolio committee. Members are aware of the steps that are being taken in various other provinces to deal with this matter. Blacklisting is indeed a consequence when these matters are taken to court and I am certain that the hon member is aware of that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Minister, since we are still on housing, may I take this opportunity to say thank you for considering the backyarders, which has always been my worry. I see you have reached a certain percentage. My question is: Can the hon Minister kindly let us know how many housing projects have been blocked in KwaZulu-Natal, and on what grounds?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, I do not have the necessary information specific to KwaZulu-Natal. The number of projects that have been identified right now is the global figure that we have, and we are continuously working on ensuring that by tomorrow it will be fewer. However, we are working very hard, together with the MEC for KwaZulu-Natal, to deal with the specific problem that arises from the issues that we find in KwaZulu-Natal, and some of them might be related to the land question as well.

The hon member is invited to join us in the committees, because we are seized with these matters. We want to push forward and ensure that those contractors that have been responsible for shoddy work are brought to book, so that we can unblock these projects and move forward, especially in KwaZulu-Natal. I think we have had our greatest successes in KwaZulu-Natal and in Gauteng. However, I think what I will do, is send you the necessary information in relation to KwaZulu-Natal, following this. Thank you.

Mr B W DHLAMINI: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you, Minister. Apart from the blocked projects, there are also these huge projects that date back to 1996, where a lot of shoddy work was done. I am aware that the department has come up with a programme to go back and remedy the situation. I would like the Minister to educate the House about how that programme would work in order to make sure that where the quality of work on houses was not proper, this is corrected, and how much is budgeted to do that.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, we took a decision in April 2005, in view of the shoddy work that we discovered had been done, to ensure that we would be able to rectify this. However, we worked out a number of criteria.

Where the shoddy work was our responsibility, perhaps due to the fact that we took so long to pay the contractor and he therefore went into liquidation, we will deal with it as the Department of Housing. However, where the fault is due to the contractor himself, we will take the necessary measures. We are working with a firm of auditors called KPGM, who are assisting us, especially in the Free State, to understand the nature of this and ensure that we can refer this to the police.

The police will have to deal with those contractors who have defaulted on the specific contracts that we had with them, because this is basically corruption. But this is a matter that we are continuously seized with, and we are assisted in this by the special investigation team that we have in the department, which was established late last year, and also by KPGM to do a thorough job.

                   Mentors for municipal managers

1. Mr W P Doman (DA) asked the Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

   Whether any progress has been made in recruiting mentors for municipal managers from India; if not, why not; if so, (a) when are the mentors due to start work in South Africa, (b) how many mentors have been recruited and (c) which municipal managers will they mentor? NA585E

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Madam Speaker, the decision to recruit professionals to help mentor our municipal managers is part of the drive that is currently under way, a drive aimed at addressing the capacity needs of local government.

As we have indicated before, other elements of the programme are already in motion. With specific reference to the question, a joint working group made up of representatives from the Department of Provincial and Local Government and the Ministry of Panchayati Raj of India has been established to facilitate and monitor the deployment of Indian specialists in the fields of engineering, finance and planning.

A mentorship model has also been developed to ensure that the whole process is managed in a structured manner. The first meeting of the joint working group is scheduled for 19–21 June 2006. This House and all concerned will be kept posted about developments in this regard. I thank you.

Mr W P DOMAN: Speaker, hon Minister, my question relates to the municipal managers specifically. Now, the law provides that municipal managers that have the necessary skills and expertise should be appointed. As it’s a top position at a municipality, why do they need mentoring? Is this an acknowledgment that those appointments weren’t made with those skills and expertise in mind?

And then, it is a real concern: Will people from abroad be able to mentor these municipal managers – I am just referring to them – while they don’t understand the South African circumstances?

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: The decision to organise people to come in and offer this mentorship is based on the acknowledgment of the fact that the tasks that are devolving to local government are becoming more complex by the day and, therefore, there is nothing wrong in making sure that steps are taken to upgrade the skills and the capacity of the incumbents in these positions.

In any institution you always hear about upgrading, in-service training, so there is nothing unusual about this. I wouldn’t want to join you in extrapolating and speculating without reflection about the capacity that is being recruited to come and do mentorship. I think it is fair to assume that those who are doing this know what they are doing.

Mr B M SOLO: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’ve discovered there’s always a problem and I have to ask a follow-up question. Let me thank the Minister for the two clear answers that he has given. We tend to forget that we’ve introduced a new system of local government, which is a developmental local government in terms of our Constitution. We are experiencing new challenges that are really complex in nature. We would also like to commend the Minister for the progress made in this regard.

Accordingly, are there any plans to record lessons and good practices that would be learnt in the process for the purpose of producing manuals that would be used as instruments to facilitate skills transfer to local government?

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Yes, hon member, as I have indicated earlier, this initiative is being undertaken in terms of Project Consolidate and it is our intention to ensure that all the experiences deriving from the implementation of this project are properly recorded in order to ensure that lessons of experience can be held out for emulation.

Mr W P DOMAN: Speaker, I just want to ask the Minister: Isn’t it true that nobody has arrived? As of yet the project isn’t coming of, the ground?

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Well, you know, I addressed the House on the occasion of our Budget Vote and I indicated that not only has Project Consolidate taken off; it has also started yielding results. This is an element of Project Consolidate, so it can’t be correct to say that an element that seeks to supplement other elements, which have already kicked off, means therefore that the project has not taken off the ground.

Why is it difficult for you to understand that I am saying that this initiative must be contextualised within Project Consolidate? There is a meeting that is going to finalise those sort of details. You ought to have listened from the beginning, when I was responding to your original question.

Mr W D SPIES: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Minister, I would just like to ask whether the department would also be prepared to take on South Africans, who used to work as town clerks but who have retired since, to be employed in mentorship programmes such as these?

The MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: The majority of the people who have been mobilised in terms of Project Consolidate are South Africans. So, we are not the only people, in case your concern is that we are also looking for foreigners.

We are not the only people in the world who look offshore in order to supplement their capacity needs and so on. It happens all over the world. It is clear that these interdependencies are necessary and no xenophobic attitude will help in dealing with the needs that we have. So, yes, we are making use of South African professionals, but it’s not either/or for us.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 33 – Transport:

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Hon Speaker of Parliament, hon members, the Department of Transport’s timeframes, targets and programmes highlight key components of our strategy to secure cost-efficient, poverty-breaking integration across the transport system, by entrenching innovation, reprioritising budgets, reinvigorating the department’s skills base and the agencies that report to us.

The Development Bank of South Africa points out that investment in the economic transport infrastructure lagged behind social infrastructure investment in the first years of our democracy. Transport is about reducing costs of doing business and improving the quality of life of our people, and increasing the workforce productivity.

Development is more likely if infrastructure is purposefully managed and financed to deliver the services where or when the economy requires or people need, at prices that are affordable to both the economy and the individual. But infrastructure provision needs to be sensitive to context in order to most effectively enable and support the translation of productive investment into efficient growth and equitable development.

Co-ordination and a comprehensive overall transport infrastructure funding strategy that matches financial resources with identified needs to develop infrastructure in a rational, integrated and coherent fashion, are central to our success.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development describes South Africa’s transport system as stellar in an African context, but also notes that the quality is uneven, and requires significant investment. It also highlights government’s co-ordination as a major factor for success, singles out roads as regular recipients of investment, but also slams the railways and ports as the weakest links in the South African transport system.

Both these reports provide a starting point for our discussion, but there are also important silences in them, such as our more recent efforts relating to rural strategies and in the public transport arena. Many challenges still bedevil the transport system, but public transport, the freight logistic system and the safety and security of the transport system as a whole, are critical to our project. I will focus on these three elements this afternoon.

Public transport must focus primarily on the needs of the urban poor and the rural disadvantaged and isolated communities. But, our planning must also build a future where public transport is a viable alternative for all travellers. Currently financial support for public transport is applied in different ways.

For example, the rail commuter subsidies addresse historical backlogs and operational costs, whilst bus subsidies are operational in emphasis. Support for the minibus taxi industry takes the form of a recapitalisation process as a step towards the integration of the taxi sector into a reorganised public transport system.

The public subsidy review is due in September of this year and aims to benefit the commuter, probably through a more equitable subsidy system for rail, buses and taxis, by also rationalising route definitions and allocations between different types of transport, as well as integrating public transport systems suited to local commuter needs.

The merged South African Rail Commuter Corporation, SARCC, and Metrorail entity is working to achieve administrative rationalisation, and also aims to improve safety on our trains, reduce train delays, improve comfort for passengers, and improve access for more and more of our people. In the meantime, the SARCC-Metrorail is upgrading lines in Durban, Cape Town, and the Witwatersrand areas of Gauteng.

As far as the Gautrain Rapid Rail Link is concerned, I am very pleased with the way in which all stakeholders have reconfigured the original concept towards greater integration into the wider public transport system in Gauteng. This will ensure a broader social return on our investments than previously estimated. We also expect to release more details about this project shortly.

The taxi recapitalisation programme is divided into stages, such as the current conversion of permits into operating licences. I am very heartened to note that as of yesterday, conversion applications have been received from 85% of taxi operators throughout this republic. [Applause.] This is a marked increase since last year, when we twice entertained the industry’s request to extend the deadline.

Licensing boards have struggled to process these applications and the national department has provided resources to help them. I have also requested my MECs for transport to monitor the licensing boards to ensure that the backlogs are sorted out quickly. I must stress, however, that there is no intention to penalise operators who are not in possession of the new permits after June 1, as long as they have a receipt showing that they have applied for one. In the few cases where it appears that receipts were not issued, I have also asked all provinces to regularise the situation urgently.

New safety requirement compliant taxi vehicles are now available in a price range from about R140 000, excluding the R50 000 scrapping allowance. We also expect that there will be between six and 11 different models for taxi owners to choose from across the three vehicle categories that we have agreed upon. With the appointment of the scrapping agency soon, we should be well on our way by the second half of this year, to reach our target of 10 000 scrapped taxis by December.

The freight system is huge and complex with multiple structural inertias that reduce its capacity and efficiency. The difference between earlier projections and actual growth highlights the difficulty of responding to immediate challenges, while developing the future structure and mechanics of the system. We must integrate subregional initiatives to get the most out of potential growth areas in South Africa.

The Department of Transport has sought also the assistance, amongst others, of the University of Stellenbosch Business School to improve our understanding of, and to develop a robust modelling for, the freight logistic sector.

As we all know, transport currently contributes some 6% to the GDP, despite an acknowledged negative impact of continued bottlenecks, non-transport related tariffs and other impediments. But, the data shows that we have to exert more transport effort than comparative economies around the world to achieve the same goals.

In short, we have to transport freight over much longer distances to create the same unit of GDP as other countries. The spatial concentration of economic endeavour in the hinterland is also a major contributor to this unhappy situation, and it also influences our corridor traffic densities and invariably the cost of production.

Furthermore, although expenditure on our roads has increased quite dramatically, and is set to continue across the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period, real expenditure is under pressure from sources such as the spiralling costs of bitumen. High fuel costs have also increased transport costs in our country.

Currently the imbalance between road and rail use is wholly inappropriate and getting worse. Heavy vehicle registrations have grown dramatically, while the locomotive fleet for general freight business has plummeted. The locomotive fleet for the profitable heavy haulage iron ore and coal lines has increased by 83% over the same period. In short, general rail service capacity is declining, while service capacity to mining companies is outstripping the growth of the South African economy.

All these trends represent a major challenge to provide cheaper transport services where producers already face cost structure problems, brought about through structural and spatial contexts. Our government will introduce competitors across the entire rail network, as articulated in the National Freight Logistics Strategy, with the exception of the heavy haulage lines that are better suited to single operators.

Our analysis of the entire freight market suggests that rail services supply is inadequate, while road supply is higher than the levels of demand. The movement of appropriate cargo to rail is an imperative, but we must ensure that rail capacity actually exists to take whatever tariff shifts will be needed.

Corridor development is a core project. The Gauteng-Durban Corridor, for example, aims to optimise and integrate all activities along the corridor to improve efficiency. Linking the City Deep, the planned Harrismith Hub, Durban Container Terminal, Dube Trade Port, the possible freight hub at Cato Ridge, and other infrastructure and operational initiatives, will greatly improve our situation. We have a better understanding of the growth and dynamics of the freight network now as a result of our experiences to date.

There is an artificial divide between the first and second economy production systems, exemplified by an absent integrated transport network. We cannot starve the second economy participant from economic prosperity of our country. Secondary rail networks rehabilitations aim to support second economy integration with the first economy. Targeted investments are required in all these rural areas and second economy interventions. Current projects that have been already implemented include the Kei rail in the Eastern Cape, the Belmont-Douglas rail in the Northern Cape and the Nkwalini upgrades in KwaZulu-Natal.

I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome to Parliament this afternoon the representatives from the Belmont–Douglas and Nkwalini areas and to wish them well in their projects. Self-contained and integrated rural development activities that envisages deep rural areas developing public and freight movement systems to both encourage economic development and interaction within these areas and facilitate access to the outside world, and vice versa, are also critical interventions.

The integrity of the whole transport system relies on adequate safety systems and regulatory regimes to protect our people and cargo. Road safety is the most visible and pervasive of all safety systems. It must encompass a range of elements including technical and engineering standards in road design, signage and, of course, vehicle safety. But, it also involves policing and enforcement of regulations and laws that are currently the responsibility of the Road Traffic Management Corporation, RTMC, and various locally based structures.

Part of the problem with road safety, and this is brought about by the wholly unacceptable levels of violence and deaths on our roads, is that we are encouraged to consider the success or failure of initiatives on the basis of immediate results. Road safety is as much a cultural matter of road users as it is the responsibility of state agencies. I look forward to the release, in the middle of the year, of an updated and reformulated road safety strategy to deal with this particular issue.

As far as compensation for road injuries goes, the combination of new blood at the Road Accident Fund, RAF, the implementation of the changes that Parliament recently approved, the public discussions of the draft regulations published yesterday and their adoption either in current or amended form shortly, should go some way towards bringing sense and sensibility to the system.

Incidentally, I have requested the Department of Transport and the Special Investigation Unit to prepare a detailed presentation sometime soon on the ongoing investigation into driving licence fraud. But, let me just say that things are not as chaotic as some would have us believe as you will see in the report that will be coming shortly.

Safety and security across the transport sector are critical components that support the integrity and contribution of the system, but their absence only undermines it. Violence and insecurity on our suburban trains, in the taxi industry and, to a lesser extent, in the bus sector have long plagued our public transport system.

Since the deployment of the SA Police Service trained personnel we have witnessed a general decline in criminal acts, of all kinds, on the lines where they have been present, especially in the Western Cape. We have decided, therefore, to increase the number of special rail police from 400 to 5 000 by the end of 2008 to bring more areas under their control. We believe this will go some way to improving people’s safety on trains and in stations, although a lot still needs to be done.

The SARCC-Metrorail management have assured me that the safety of commuters is a priority that they are addressing through a range of actions, such as investments in signalling, stations, refurbishment of rolling stock and the installation of CCV cameras - to mention but a few. The ongoing extension of capacity in the Railway Safety Regulator is also encouraging. We have not seen the current levels of death and violence on some of our trains since the apartheid regime’s war against commuters on trains and in taxis in the 1980s and early 1990s. No amount of rhetoric can justify these actions today and I am sure Parliament will join me to condemn the organisers and perpetrators unreservedly, whoever they may be. The cost to life and limb and to property is enormous.

Infighting in the taxi industry is also an incredible waste of human and other resources, and I would have hoped that by now these problems would be behind us. The associations themselves, together with law-enforcement agencies, have a combined responsibility to bring taxi violence to an end - at the very least for the safety of passengers and the public.

I must also state that I am deeply concerned that officials who have been tasked by government to develop, implement and oversee the taxi recapitalisation programme have been subjected to intimidation and threats to their lives and wellbeing. This is thuggery and government will act forcefully against those responsible.

I have not touched on some issues such as the 2010 FIFA Soccer World Cup preparations or other matters that have been dealt with in recent parliamentary questions. And I am sure that more issues will be raised in the course of the debate that will require some response at the end. I have simply provided a snapshot of some of the critical issues that confront us as we overhaul our transport systems. These are complex issues that do not lend themselves to simplistic solutions.

But having said that, we must not dilly-dally in implementing measures that will move us forward towards constructive interventions. That is why the strategic plan is both ambitious and practical, but its implementation will be marked by movement into the unknown and we will judge progress partly from this perspective. I thank you in advance for an instructive and constructive debate.

Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, Minister Jeff Radebe, staff members from the department including the director-general and those like us passionately involved in transport issues, I have now had the honour of representing the ANC in seven parliamentary Transport Budget Votes. I think that for the first time it is possible to assert that a corner is starting to be turned.

For many reasons in the first several years after the 1994 democratic breakthrough, with many other pressing priorities such as health, education, housing and water, transport tended to be somewhat forgotten. This relative marginalisation was reflected both in the lack of the positioning of transport within the national debate and, alas, in the budgetary allocations that were made to this sector.

This is all beginning to change now, and I think that there are several reasons for it. There is, of course, the 2010 factor. The Soccer World Cup will only be an event that lasts for a few weeks, but it is helping to concentrate South African minds around the imperatives of building towns and cities, and thinking about safe and reliable accessibility, including decent public transport.

In the ANC we have welcomed Minister Radebe’s consistent positioning in regard to the 2010 issue. You have said, Minister, that we will use 2010 to do the things that we have to do in any case, and that is exactly the correct approach, we believe.

Another very important factor, I think, in deepening the awareness around transport has been a gathering momentum of public concern, particularly around road safety matters and public transport matters. There have, for instance, been here in Cape Town citizens’ groups, supported by Cosatu, raising legitimate concerns around security on trains.

Let me take this opportunity, once more, to remember Lynda Loxton, the former parliamentary correspondent for Independent Newspapers, who tragically lost her life after falling, while trying to board a train on Cape Town’s Simon’s Town line.

In the Portfolio Committee on Transport we remember Lynda as a hard- working, diligent and very fair-minded journalist and, of course, a committed public transport commuter. We miss her at our committee hearings, and as the transport committee we find it particularly tragic that she should have died in this way.

Public concern about road safety has been growing and there are a number of citizens’ groups campaigning around several issues: Pedestrian safety, alcohol abuse, cyclist safety, the safety of students on their way to school. As the ANC we welcome these initiatives. We may or may not agree with every suggestion or proposal that is made, but as the ANC we welcome active citizens, NGOs and social movements taking up transport issues and forcing them into the public domain.

The debate around the merits of the Gautrain, partially initiated by this committee here in Parliament, is an example and an important example of growing popular debate and discussion around public transport concerns and priorities. I’ll come back, if I have time, to the Gautrain matter. But we should see in the debate an opportunity to foster discussion and debate, not just around the merits and demerits of one particular project, but around public transport in general.

Perhaps among the most important reasons for a greater focus on transport is the growing national recognition of the centrality of transport to government’s Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa. It has now become commonplace to note how sustained economic growth, with booming exports and imports, since 1994 has exposed many bottlenecks in our critical freight logistics system. Transport, in its many facets, is absolutely central to any sustainable, accelerated shared growth in our country. This is the background against which there are pleasing signs that we are indeed beginning to turn a corner.

This turning of a corner is reflected in the first place in this budget where we see expenditure trends rising very significantly from R5,7 billion in the 2002-03 financial year, to R15,5 billion in 2008-09. That’s an annual average increase of some 18,1%. Included in this significant rise is R1,6 billion allocated to passenger rail infrastructure over the Medium- Term Expenditure Framework period. An amount of R7,2 billion is going towards the Gautrain in the same period, and there is a very significant increase in spending on national roads, with growth increasing to about 26% over the medium-term period.

Over the past several weeks there has been quite an interesting debate in the media around the significance of some of these increases, particularly regarding road infrastructure. Malcolm Mitchell, the Executive Director of the SA Road Federation, has argued that these increases are insufficient to halt the slide in terms of the deterioration of our road system. Professor Don Ross of the University of Cape Town has replied that, to the contrary, we have now begun to cross what he calls the shadow line, the threshold of investment below which we would be moving backwards in terms of road maintenance.

Professor Ross argues that we need to calculate the amounts that we are budgeting for roads, not just in terms of the allocation to national roads, but also now to the increasing amounts available for provincial and municipal road maintenance and construction. Without going into all the details of Professor Ross’s argument, I find him persuasive and I also particularly like the conclusion to which he comes. We should, he says, be pleased that we are making progress but vigilant to ensure that we continue to do so. I think that is a maxim that applies not just to road infrastructure, but to the totality of challenges we are facing, not least in transport.

While we are on the topic of road construction and maintenance, the ANC would also like to urge that we don’t get stuck, once more, simply in a maintenance mode. We cannot be satisfied, largely, with repairing a pre- 1994 road infrastructure, ie an infrastructure that was essentially designed for the spatial realities and dominant social needs of an apartheid system.

We need to be thinking in transformational ways. We must, of course, repair the potholes even if they are potholes in apartheid roads, but we don’t want to get stuck for another decade simply repairing the legacy of the past, and doing it in the same old ways. In this regard, as the ANC we are particularly pleased to note several labour-intensive community–based projects. There is the pioneering Zibambele project in KwaZulu-Natal; Gundo Lasho, a similar project in Limpopo; and now also Siyakha in Gauteng.

The Zibambele project, for instance, involves allocated road maintenance tasks for specific stretches of provincial road, which are then allocated to female-headed households in poor communities. They receive training and assistance. They then take responsibility through the year, over many years, to maintain that stretch of road and its sidewalks. We need to replicate and extend these kinds of projects, working in partnership with the Department of Public Works and the Expanded Public Works Programme.

As the ANC we would also want to urge, as we set about major road construction, that we also begin to ask other questions. Are our roads pedestrian-friendly? The answer is no. Are our roads safe for cyclists? Same answer. As we begin to use our increased road infrastructure budget, is this not an opportunity to think more imaginatively about dedicated public transport lanes, for instance, at least where this is appropriate?

There are some important initiatives that have happened on this front. There is, for instance, the wonderful Galeshewe bicycle path in Kimberley. But we, again, would like to see their replication and expansion. In short, we are saying that we must not allow road construction and maintenance to exist in a silo apart from our other social and economic objectives.

A similar point can be made in regard to rail infrastructure. The Asgisa initiative has, quite correctly, identified the major freight logistic lines - Gauteng to Durban and so forth - as the key priorities from a transport perspective in terms of accelerated growth. But we would be neglecting the “S” in Asgisa, the Shared element of shared growth, if we forgot about the importance of, for instance, rural branch lines.

Again, as the ANC we would like to commend the Department of Transport for its efforts at revitalising key branch lines such as the Umtata-East London line in the Eastern Cape, the Belmont-Douglas line in the Northern Cape, and the Nkwalini branch line in KZN. We think that this is exactly what we also need to be focusing on; not just focusing on the key corridors but on the many branch lines that support them.

Another area in which, as the ANC, we believe that progress is discernable lies in the area of departmental restructuring. I said earlier that in the first years after 1994, there was a loss of professional skills, partly to the private sector, but also to a range of public agencies at other entities.

I believe that the retention and development of skills remain challenges in the department, but we are very encouraged by the department’s plans to expand its complement in critical areas like public-entity oversight, transport regulation and accident investigation, and the area that particularly affects us as a parliamentary committee in regard to legislation. We will support these endeavours and work collaboratively with our colleagues in the department to ensure that these expansion plans are effectively implemented. In the seven years that I have been in this committee, one entity that has presented an ongoing challenge is, of course, our old friend the Road Accident Fund. As a committee we spent many months last year amending, re- amending and re-amending, again, the Road Accident Fund Amendment Bill. In this year’s budget there is an urgent R2,7 billion transfer that will enable the fund to meet its liabilities for 2005-06.

In welcoming this allocation, we hope that this will prove to be a one-off emergency measure, but we need put it on a sustainable basis. Key in that, obviously, is to lower the levels of fatalities and injuries on our roads. That’s the one sustainable direction.

I think as a committee but, certainly, as the ANC component of the committee, we are also very encouraged by the new strategic insight that the CEO, Jacob Modise, is beginning to bring to the Road Accident Fund. He kept reminding us in budgetary hearings that the core mandate of the fund was not to protect a lump sum of money, as if it was Fort Knox. Its role is to pay out legitimate claims to legitimate claimants; that’s its role. We welcome that understanding of the core mandate of the fund and look forward to an improved Road Accident Fund.

Another speaker from the ANC, Comrade Barbara Thomson, will talk at greater length on road safety matters, but in this overall input from the ANC I cannot fail to make some mention of this critical area. As the ANC we are well aware that transport involves a huge range of issues: Aviation issues, maritime issues, cross-border issues, road-traffic regulations and many more. But if we were to identify, as the ANC, two areas of great concern to our broad constituency then they would have to be safety on our roads and public transport.

In regard to road safety, we believed that, over the past several years, important progress had been made. I think that was justified in some respect. First of all, in the road to safety strategy, we have on paper an excellent and internationally commended approach - but on paper. Secondly and importantly, through Arrive Alive and other initiatives, a very clear and consistent message has gone out to South Africa: Speed kills, drinking and driving is grossly negligent, we should all buckle up, and so forth.

These messages have gone out. There is no one in South Africa who could not have heard them. But, alas, there is still a hard core of drivers out there who don’t give a damn. In the last two or three years we were somewhat encouraged by the statistics. While remaining at very high levels, there did seem to be an indication of improvement. However, last December we had an increase of 19,8% in fatalities in comparison to the previous December. And over the first four months of 2006, there has also been an increase measured against the previous year in fatal crashes and fatalities.

We need to be careful about statistics. They are not always very reliable. Accidents are random. You might have a concentration of accidents in one month and then fewer in another, and so on. So we need to be careful about reading trends, and also we need to understand that there has been a 12% increase in traffic volumes in one year. But with all of these qualifications it is clear that as a country, we confront a very, very serious challenge indeed.

The cost of accidents in 2005 was around R40 billion to our country. That is two Gautrains we are spending every single year on this issue. On a daily average, we have 38 deaths on our roads, three are taxi-related on average, 16 are pedestrian, 21 are disabling injuries, and there are 125 serious injuries - every single day on average. It’s a war zone out there. Those death figures are worse than the casualty figures of the war in Baghdad. I think we need to get a grip and an understanding of this.

We were encouraged in the budgetary hearings to hear from the Department of Transport of its commitment now to move with much greater determination to enforcement. We have communicated, we must continue to communicate - buckle up, don’t drink and drive, speed kills.

We must continue with those messages, but now we must enforce. Of course, the Department of Transport does not employ a single traffic officer and cannot ensure enforcement on its own. We require the co-operation of the SA Police Service, of provincial and municipal traffic departments, of the courts and, of course, of the public in general.

There is inadequate road policing in our country, often the policing hours are when they are not needed most, and on a Friday night when the accident rate is high, there are only a few traffic officers, and so forth. Vehicle- testing stations are often not up to scratch, and there are many other things. Overburdened magistrates’ courts are not taking road offences seriously, and light fines are often given for extremely serious and murderous behaviour on the roads.

These are just some of the challenges we face, and we firmly agree with the department that now is the time for enforcement, enforcement and, of course, enforcement.

Turning briefly then, in the few minutes that I have left, to the Gautrain. I welcomed earlier in this speech the public debate around public transport, in general, that has been provoked by the Gautrain project. At our hearings last year the committee, in a formal report to Parliament, expressed several concerns about this project: Its cost of R20 billion, relative to our spending on all other public transport systems; its operational viability and its lack of connectivity to other forms of public transport in the Gauteng province.

Relevant Cabinet Ministers all welcomed, I must say, the committee’s work and the report that we tabled. Cabinet, considering the report, proceeded to recommend that the project goes ahead, however, with the qualification that much greater connectivity between Gautrain and other forms of public transport in Gauteng are addressed.

When we met in November last year, we were told that the closing of the negotiation with the preferred bidder was eminent. However, those negotiations, as we speak, are still continuing now, and we have been assured by the Department of Transport that this is largely due to the seriousness with which they, the department, are treating the requirement that much greater connectivity between the Gautrain and other forms of public transport in Gauteng be built in. We welcome that assurance.

We also welcome the point that Gauteng Premier Comrade Mbhazima Shilowa made last week. He noted that while the Gautrain will, if we are lucky – that’s me, not him - only be completed or partially completed – that’s me - by 2010, there are other immediate and pressing public transport needs in Gauteng and throughout South Africa which must be addressed now.

We also welcome Gauteng MEC Comrade Ignatius Jacobs’ moves towards constituting a transport authority for Gauteng that will consider the totality of public transport requirements and general mobility challenges throughout the province. As an ANC study group and as the portfolio committee we will continue to monitor this project, as we certainly must. However, as the ANC we also urge all interested parties to engage with the matter, not as pro and anti- Gautrain factions, but rather as South Africans passionately concerned with improving their overall situation with regard to public transport in our country.

The ANC under the portfolio committee has consistently supported government’s attempts to democratise, regulate, formalise and recapitalise the minibus sector. This sector today is the backbone of our public transport system; it transports 64% of commuters.

On the other hand, it is a sector that is characterised by vehicles that are dangerously unroadworthy, operating systems based on fare collections and competition for passengers on the road and at ranks, and by drivers who drive dangerously because the only way in which they can make money is to return R300 to the owner and then, once they have made the R300 in a day, what’s left is their wage.

This whole sector requires massive transformation, but we would urge the department in carrying out the recapitalisation process to try to integrate it much more thoroughly into a range of other initiatives at the municipal level, in particular in terms of subsidies for buses and other transport modes and developing integrated transport systems …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon member, your time is up.

Mr J P CRONIN: Thank you very much. The ANC obviously supports the Transport budget. [Applause.]

Mr S B FARROW: Chairperson, Minister and colleagues, I have only been in this position for the last six years, but as the Transport budget comes before this House today, I have seen about three directors-general come and go, and as many strategic plans.

At last, within its vision of “Transport, the heartbeat of the South African economy”, some light seems to be emerging at the end of what has been a long, dark tunnel. Many of the department’s important policy developments, however, will require exceptional resolve and political leadership, for without political support the challenges outlined in the strategic plans will again come to nought.

The first challenge relates to the staffing structure of the department in order to meet the objectives of the strategic plan. It is encouraging to note that the new director-general, Ms Mpumi Mpofu, seems to have a good grip on what is taking place in her department, considering she only recently took over the reins, and I’d like to take this opportunity of wishing her well in her endeavours.

However, the new director-general can only achieve what she sets out to do with the collective help of a competent and well-motivated team. The department’s new organogram was approved only on 16 May 2006, however, some 15 new posts out of 26 positions that have been outlined in the top structure still have to be advertised and filled. I trust this will be expedited as swiftly as possible, because the department cannot continue to function as it did in the past.

Key posts in Programmes 2, 3 and 5 similarly need to be filled. They cover very important aspects such as research and policy, transport regulation and public transport. They have a direct bearing on the service delivery of the 13 public entities reporting to the department. Many of these entities seem to be operating reasonably well, but others have serious constraints and problems.

Our airports, for example, are still suffering from passenger bottlenecks and through-flow, which will require a major effort to streamline before the Soccer World Cup. This will need to be looked at very carefully if we are to cope with the thousands of visitors. Security at both the aircraft and passenger sides need serious investigation with regard to suspected inside information leaks which took place there, and the role of private security contractors on the one hand and the SAPS on the other. The future allocation of the shareholding of the Airports Company of South Africa also needs addressing since the moratorium that was placed on it by the late Minister Dullah Omar some three years ago.

The role of the Dube Trade Port, which the Minister actually mentioned, and how the proposed King Shaka Airport fits into the existing airport hub at Johannesburg Airport, needs to be clarified. International trends tend to centralise large aircraft arrivals and departures at one airport and then distribute passengers through smaller regional carriers.

The new CEO of the Road Accident Fund, RAF, Jacob Modise, is a refreshing and truthful change from his predecessors, who were hell-bent on securing their own positions and those of their senior managers, rather than those of the 400 000 claimants waiting for some sort of payout for three years or more.

The CEO has realised that if the fund is to become sustainable, a new look at its organisational and financial structure will be necessary. The continued litigatory approach must only be used in exceptional cases, and the fund must now be transformed into an efficient, corruption-free administration, looking primarily at the needs of the claimants.

The DA fully supports the appropriation of R2,7 billion to meet claims in arrears and to return the fund to a sound financial footing, but the bail- out will not solve the fund’s insurmountable problems, unless the Road Accident Fund Act is relooked at. It may restrict claims by virtue of its caps and prevent foreign claims, but what it will not do is reduce the number of accident claims, which have increased by 9% since 1999, or for that matter the estimated increase in the number of new car registrations taking place annually.

The bottom line, Minister, is that South Africa has one of the highest traffic accident rates in the world, and unless we can bring this down the fund’s liabilities will continue to exceed its assets, rendering it technically insolvent. Coupled to this is the serious threat of continued constitutional challenges coming from claimants whose common law rights have been removed. They will undoubtedly contest whatever definition comes out of the regulations you spoke about, Minister, in terms of classifying what is termed a “serious injury”.

We need to sit down and assist the new CEO and board, together with the Road Traffic Management Corporation, to see how best the RAF can look forward to an accident-free South Africa. To this end in last year’s budget debate I proposed investigating the Namibian model with regard to its financial workings, and I wonder if anything has been done in that regard.

The underfunding of the SA National Roads Agency Limited and the problems associated with the SA Rail Commuter Corporation constitute a continuing problem which I have raised many times in this House, and my colleague, the hon Swart, will be covering these aspects later on in the debate.

Let me now turn to the big issue of tackling the dilemma of public transport in South Africa, in particular within our major metros. My colleague will be raising his concerns about the taxi industry and aspects of recapitalisation. However, I want to put on the table the whole issue of finding the best, most cost-efficient model to ensure safe and affordable public transport for many of our less advantaged communities.

As you are aware, the Portfolio Committee on Transport had the opportunity of visiting many of these metros as part of an oversight function, to see how far they had progressed in producing their integrated transport plans. Some interesting observations came out of that.

The first thing of note, in particular with regard to Johannesburg and Tshwane – this is something the chairman alluded to – is that neither seems to be talking to the other in respect of connectivity, and they are planning in isolation. Of concern also was the independent planning taking place with regard to the Gautrain, and the aspect of ensuring that commuter rail, buses and taxis operate as part of a single urbanwide system, rather than competing with each other, needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, many of our towns continue to develop on the peripheries of CBDs, which results in lower-income earners of our society having to rely more on public transport. The recent National Household Travel Survey highlighted this with regard to time travelled and the costs of these trips. Many of these housing developments do not provide the service providers with enough decent roads, cycle tracks or pedestrian lanes to link them to these transport terminals.

Recently a number of portfolio committees undertook a tour of South America to look at their problems. I found the talk very enlightening, as many of the problems facing the cities of Buenos Aires and Bogota, we could relate to South Africa.

What happened in Bogota, Minister, involved political risk but it paid off. Public transport previously was serviced by small taxis, minibuses and large buses, and congestion was so great through the use of private vehicles that parking and traffic jams were the norm. The mayor of Bogota decided to restrict private car access to the city, formed a consortium with existing bus and taxi operators, and, on dedicated lanes eased up as a result of private car restrictions, introduced mass public transporters, whilst at the same time embracing access for cyclists and pedestrians to these services. The model is now well known and supported by the World Bank.

Minister, for this to have worked successfully, it needed the political will, the need to cater for the demands of the commuting public, and above all, foresight. The DA believes that with careful planning and good negotiations with bus and taxi associations, together with the support of a co-operating metro, a pilot project should be investigated, with a win-win approach to solving our dissected and often violent public transport sector.

If R20 million can be thrown at the Gautrain, with every possibility of failure, then surely some funds can be found to investigate the Bogota model, obviously with some modifications. The Gautrain project still has many bridges to cross, and I’d like the Minister to be aware of the concerns raised by the routing of the proposed train through AECI property at Modderfontein, which has not reached finality.

The more recent decision is to go above ground through parts of Centurion via ducts, due to the problems with underlying rock conditions. This is a total abuse of the rights of the residents of Centurion and has major environmental and property implications if pushed ahead without proper consultation, which seems to be the norm for the Gautrain project team.

Finally, let me comment on some of the more worrying aspects of the preparation for the FIFA World Cup, and in particular the aspects of the tourism bus licensing procedures as a separate requirement to that of the scheduled and unscheduled commuter industry services.

Tourism operators are required to provide daily tourism transport across multiple provincial jurisdictions, but obtaining interprovincial licensing requires the concurrence of other provincial operating licensing boards, which either refuse or do not respond to such requests. This is causing a major problem to tour operators and is an impossible situation that is damaging to our tourism transport and tourism industry.

Clearly, Minister, this cannot continue, and I call on you to relook at the National Land Transport Transition Act licensing procedures, to see whether we cannot sort out this problem. [Time expired.] Thank you. Sorry it was a bit rushed. I should have taken more of your time. [Applause.]

Mr T E VEZI: Thank you, Chair. Kindly take note that this is my maiden speech as far as this department is concerned. The aim of the department is to provide an integrated, sustainable, reliable and safe transport system through implementation of transport policies and strategies.

In supporting this budget of R12,8 billion, which is 19% more than the previous budget, the IFP wishes to raise what we consider to be serious concerns.

There were more than 12 000 road deaths in 2005, 40% of which were pedestrians. Road deaths cost South Africa around R40 billion per annum. It is estimated that up to 50% of drivers’ licences are fake. The estimates are that daily we have 38 deaths, 21 disabling injuries and 125 serious injuries. Most of these are caused by faults committed by drivers and unroadworthy vehicles.

It is estimated that South Africans pay R43 billion per year for road use, but only R13 billion of that goes to road maintenance and repair. We spend about R23 billion every year to try to address backlogs.

Another major concern to the IFP is the fact that after almost 10 years the taxi recapitalisation programme remains unresolved, resulting in instability, violence and job losses in some cases. One of the reasons for the budget increase is the establishment of a taxi recapitalisation project office. We cannot understand why this is only now being done. Someone must have put the cart before the horse here.

Another major concern to the IFP is the Road Accident Fund. Capping up for compensation is indeed a short-term solution. Unless there is a reduction of accidents on roads, which lead to death and permanent injuries, the financial problems of the Road Accident Fund will remain unresolved. The question of the proper management of this fund is very important. If this is not addressed as a matter of urgency, this fund will remain a bottomless pit for many years to come. As usual, I am not here to pose as an armchair critic, because I don’t live in an ivory tower, like some of us. Having served as a chairman of the Pietermaritzburg Transportation Board myself, I am aware that the present Minister inherited some of the unfortunate problems.

It is unfortunate that in some rural areas there are no exit roads to community facilities such as schools and pension paypoints. Some officials who are able and willing to assist have their hands tied, as they have to go through transport forums before they can do anything with regard to some of these access roads. Some members of these forums do not attend meetings where such matters are supposed to be addressed.

In conclusion, my other concern, although that will be dealt with by my colleague who serves on the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, is the fact that the department has had a qualified report. I thank you.

Ms N P KHUNOU: Chairperson, Ministers present, Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, officials from the department, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I would also like to talk in remembrance of our greatest heroes and heroines who fought for the struggle and whose fruits are eaten daily and we will continue to do so in the future.

Abraham Lincoln said that the best thing about the future is that it comes one day at a time. As we enjoy these fruits, let us remember that our people are still living under poverty margins. Women in our society who are champions of families are still unemployed and suffering. Most youths are loitering on the streets because they are unemployed. We still have households that are headed by children. These struggles and challenges need not be forgotten. They need to be emphasised so that we all are working under pressure to make our ancestors proud. We as public representatives are here to keep the interest of our voters at heart. As part of what we do every day, we need to be thinking of how to change their lives.

Woodrow Wilson said, and I quote:

You are not merely here to make a living. You are here in order to enable the world to live more amply, with greater vision, with a fibre of hope and achievement. You are here to enrich the world and impoverish yourself if you forget the errand.

One of the key factors that the government and Department of Transport has prioritised is infrastructure. The Budget Review document is addressing that. It talks about the infrastructure investments, which make up a steadily growing share of general government expenditure. It has increased from the 2002-03 financial year up to 2005-06 financial year from R1,9 million to R19 million, an average increase of 115,6%, as additional funds were allocated to developing freight transport policy and implementation strategies.

Expenditure picked up in the 2003-04 financial year to revitalise railway branch lines in Umtata. In 2005, the budget of R5 million was allocated for the 2005-06 financial year, and R10 million in 2005-07 for developing freight logistics strategies and pilot implementation of these projects. There has been an escalation of budget increases every year for infrastructure.

As you are aware, every year we have the state of the nation address. In 2005, the President highlighted the following as key government priority areas relating to the transport sector. On infrastructure, there is a need to develop strategies and investment plans in relation to transport logistics and to the amount of R180 billion. There is an investment of R220 million from the SA Rail Commuter Corporation for commuter transport and safety. He also talked about speeding up the capital investment programme. The focus of government is a rational logistics system.

The Department of Transport is tasked among other duties to improve and expand transport infrastructure. The ANC also pronounced itself on 8 January through the President when he said there is a need to expand infrastructure, as it creates jobs and this will include labour-intensive jobs. Roads are built or constructed to improve accessibility.

Modulasetilo, Letona la lefapha la dipalangwa, ga go sena ditsela ga gona go nna le tswelelopele le bophelo bo bontle bo ka se tswelele pele fa re sena ditsela. Le ditsela tseo dijanaga di ka tsamayang ka tsona.Jaaka go na le matona a diporofense tse dingwe, ke batla go le bolelela gore re batla go bona ditsela tsa magae, metse-setoropo di siamisiwa. Re bua ka dinako tsotlhe gore ga go na ditiro. Batho ba tla ditoropong go batla botshelo jo bo botoka ka go bona ditiro, gonne tiro ga e teng fa re nnang teng.

Ke batla go bona kwa Mangaung go na le mabenkele a magolo go tshwana le boGame le mabenkele a mangwe a magolo, gore le rona re kgone go tsenya letseno mo moruong wa naga re tswe mo metse setoropong le mo magaeng jalo le jalo. A re se direng tsela e le nngwe ngwaga di le pedi kgotsa tse tharo kgotsa tse tlhano. Seno ke se buisiwa ke N1 e e sa fetsweng go baakanngwa. Bomme, re tshaba go tsamaya moo bosigo. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, Minister of Transport, there are no roads on which cars can drive, and if there are no roads there won’t be progress and life won’t improve. Since there are some provincial Ministers present, I want to tell you that we want to see the upgrading of roads in villages and locations. We always say there are no jobs. People come to towns for a better life by getting employment, because there are no jobs in the places where they stay.

I want to see big shops like Game and others here in Mangaung, so that we can also contribute to the economy of our country and move away from the villages and locations and so forth. Let us not take one, two, three or five years to build one road. I am saying this because of the ongoing upgrading of the N1 road. Ladies, we are afraid to walk there at night.]

I won’t do justice if I don’t talk about the N12 road. This road needs special attention. Potholes are large and cars are breaking down. A part of it has been fixed but we need the whole road to be taken into cognisance. Minister, when fixing this road or constructing it, it must be done in a manner that is user-friendly.

There are roads that won’t give pedestrians right of way, eg the road from Durban that we took when we went to the funeral of the late Minister, that is, the road from Durban to Lusikisiki. Schoolchildren there walk to school and it is very dangerous. One of my colleagues told me that, on their way to the funeral, they saw how a child was killed on the road. Because of that we really need to make our roads user-friendly.

I know that according to the strategic plan, the action plans for roads have been completed. The key priorities include access to roads development, improving the national and secondary networks, and developing and standardising information and division support systems. Amongst others, public transport interchanges in Inanda, Ntuzuma and KwaMashu in KwaZulu- Natal were completed in December 2004.

There is also the Galeshewe bicycle path in Kimberley, Northern Cape. The first phase of the Baragwanath public transport interchange in Johannesburg, Gauteng, was completed in 2005. This is very good and as the ANC, we are happy about this.

Earlier in May 2006, we went to Colombia, South America, on a study tour. We went to a city called Bogota. Colombia is a country with more or less the same population as South Africa. They also have the same experience in terms of poverty-stricken areas. We went to one of the townships where people are striving very hard in terms of living standards.

However, one thing that was interesting was that there was a big pavement where pedestrians, together with cyclists, walk without being fearful of their life. This needs to be done in our townships. Bicycles are affordable and we need to encourage their use in our country. We need to see our children riding bicycles without them being in danger from cars. We need to walk freely on our streets without fearing dying from motorcar accidents. That is why we need these pavements to be constructed in our own townships and the places where we are staying.

I am glad to report to you that the Department of Transport also has a plan on the rural transport strategy. This will help improve roads in rural areas and will bring about a difference in terms of economy, since it will create jobs and bring about a better life. I am still waiting for the day when I will see a big shopping complex in Thaba Nchu; that is where my constituency is. In Koffiefontein, instead of seeing those old businesses from the apartheid era, we need to see smiles on the faces of our people where most of the children and women will be employed; where they will not have to travel for 250 km to buy groceries in the city of Bloemfontein.

In 2005-06, 52 public infrastructure projects to the value of R1,9 billion were approved for funding in 18 municipalities through the new public transport and systems conditional grant.

This includes capital spending on station upgrades, constructing and upgrading public transport, nonmotorised transport infrastructure and facilities, including pedestrian and cycle ways. It will make a difference and better the lives of our people, which is the message from the ANC.

One other challenge that is facing us is that these roads are being constructed by big companies employing our people, who don’t have any shares. They are not even sure if these jobs will be sustainable. We must think of ways to empower them and make their lives better.

We can never separate growth from sharing with everyone. Our country’s economy is growing rapidly, and people should share in the economic growth. We must all share the growth, construct these roads, initiate the black economic empowerment companies and get into joint ventures so that after the completion of roads, people can still survive through money and from their own businesses.

Theodore Roosevelt wrote that:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but … who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Modulasetilo re na le diporo mo metseng ya rona, go fedisa bothata jwa dipalangwa ke rata go naya thuso,utlwelelang gonne botlhale jwa phala bo tswa phalaneng.Re batla go bona diporo tseo di dirisiwa,go le dipalangwa tse dintsi tse di fapafapaneng. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, we have railway lines in our villages, to eradicate transport problems. I would like to help by listening, because the young ones always have good ideas. We want to see those railway lines in use and lots of different modes of transport.]

In 2004-05, the department established the freight logistics and corridor development programme. This is to reduce the cost of doing business in the country by making the freight logistics sector more efficient, reliable and cost-effective, which is what the Minister said earlier on.

Within the sector, we have four subprogrammes. The national logistics strategy aims to improve strategies and unblock bottlenecks in freight systems. The Eastern and Western Corridors will be used to implement projects in the freight corridor. Border operations and control will be responsible for co-ordinating development and maintenance of transport infrastructure at border posts.

Transport vis-à-vis the FIFA World Cup is on board. The action plan is articulated in the vision, objectives and plan, and is at its final stages for development. All host municipalities are on board. Let us not forget the use and upgrade of stadiums in townships. Make our people proud and happy. As we are developing and preparing for the success and milestones of growth in our country, let us not have projects that will turn into white elephants after the World Cup.

Our airports are being improved, and I think that Mr Farrow knows that, because the Airports Company SA Managing Director, Monhla Hlahla, came to the committee and briefed us about this. It has spent R6 billion on improving terminals in Johannesburg and, as you can see when you go to Cape Town Airport, there is an improvement in the parking space which will be well in line by 2010.

All these things are being done by the ANC. At Umgabulo, the April 2004 ANC document emphasised that we have a growing economy, so, therefore, we need to attack poverty in all ways by building economic infrastructure, creating work opportunities and encouraging labour-intensive methods, which our President emphasised last year. We need to take more youth into learnership programmes for them to gain skills and work experience.

Let us make a difference in the lives of our people in ensuring that tomorrow is better than yesterday and I have no doubt that it is indeed better than yesterday. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Ms N C NKABINDE: Hon Chair and members, the transport infrastructure of a country is like the arteries in a body. If they are clogged or too narrow the rest of the body suffers, and where the arteries fail, the affected parts of the body will suffer and slowly die.

The South African economy is facing exactly this type of dilemma because GDP growth is placing more and more strain on our transport infrastructure. In a stagnant economy the current disastrous rail transport infrastructure will perhaps have gone unnoticed, but with a rapidly expanding economy, we are faced with a freight industry overly reliant on road infrastructure. In turn, our road infrastructure is carrying a rapidly increasing load.

The results of this scenario are that road transport is becoming unreliable and slow, as traffic volumes continue to increase and exceed the capacity of the infrastructure. Eventually, this situation will become one of the major restraining factors on the economy, and will prevent us from achieving and exceeding the goal of 6% GDP growth.

The 2010 Soccer World Cup will only further increase the transport infrastructure burden around major venues and centres. Together, these infrastructure needs are addressed in the budget with an expenditure of several billion rands over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

Indeed, these challenges are massive and should be seen in the context of other major responsibilities of the department, such as the ever-struggling Road Accident Fund.

Allow me to express concern regarding the taxi recapitalisation programme. It has been postponed and delayed many times, often because of government bungling. Again, we are told that the process will soon reach conclusion. We would assume that government has now addressed the concerns of the industry. However, besides claims from the Ministry, there are rumblings from the industry about the same old concerns, such as the insufficient scrapping fee. [Time expired.] We support the budget.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): By agreement the following speaker will speak from his desk: hon V C Gore.

Mr V C GORE: Thank you Chair, hon Minister and hon members, the Department of Transport continues in an exemplary manner to overcome the great imbalances created by apartheid, especially with regard to equalising government structures and infrastructure, which supports it, and offer services that cater for a minority of South Africans and exclude the majority.

Due to the time constraints of this debate, I am unable to highlight the many successes that the Minister and the department have been able to achieve over this period. For these, the ID congratulates the government and offers our continued support in this regard.

However, we would like to draw your attention and request your intervention with regard to an issue that affects the lives of about 14% of the South African population, and prevents them from enjoying their full rights as enshrined in our Constitution.

It is an indictment on us as a country that between four and seven million people, because of their disabilities, are prevented from getting from their homes to their places of work, to schools, to universities, to government services such as health facilities, and even to partake in extra activities, due to inaccessible transport systems. These do not cater for physical, sensory or mental impairments.

Despite some important initiatives and policy and pilot projects around the country, transport systems, from taxis to buses, to trains and airlines, remain disabled-unfriendly and inaccessible. It is important to note that in order for any transport system to be accessible for people with physical, mental and sensory impairments, it needs to be 100% accessible; not 10%, not 50%; not 80%, but 100%.

Hon Minister, the ID supports the work that you and your department are doing and encourages you to address the needs and rights of the marginalised sector of this community.

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson and the hon Minister, the ACDP welcomes the government’s stated intention to spend billions of rands on roads, which is the single largest sectoral target of the infrastructure roll-out plan of some R372 billion over the next number of years.

The state of our roads, as other speakers have indicated, and the delays with regard to maintenance and repairs, have been and remain a source of major concern. I am glad the one member referred to the N12 and the deplorable condition of that road which I have raised in this House before, and I myself am unable to use that due to the number of potholes, and I have sought alternative routes. Many other people, obviously, can’t find alternative routes.

While there has been a measure of criticism that this funding is still insufficient, given the enormous backlogs and general delays in repairs and maintenance, we as the ACDP are satisfied that the urgency of the matter in general is being recognised and that we are, as hon Cronin pointed out, “turning the corner.” But, we would like an urgent intervention on that N12 route.

As far as the Road Accident Fund is concerned, there has been severe criticism of the board regarding the standard of political independence, financial independence, accountability and service delivery.

The ACDP’s position on last year’s amendments to the Act is on record. We do, however, find it deplorable that a foreigner should be able to claim R90 million from the fund, as reported in the media, and we supported the amendment relating to limiting foreigners’ claims.

We also, as the ACDP, welcome the appointment of the new CEO and fully appreciate the precarious financial position of the fund. The solution, however, lies in better management of the available fuel levy and the eradication of corrupt practices; not, we believe, in the reduction of the victim’s rights to claim. Additionally, we urgently need to reduce the number of serious collisions on our roads, as has been pointed out, which in turn will reduce the number of claims.

In conclusion, we wish to thank all the dedicated staff members of the department for their hard work and we wish them well in their new budget here. There can, however, be no doubt that there are a number of challenges, but we do believe that the corner has been turned, as has been pointed out.

Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, Minister Radebe, Deputy Ministers present and hon members, road safety is a major priority in any developing country, notwithstanding, of course, other national priorities as well.

I am fully aware of the measures that are put in place to secure our people, especially our children. I briefly want to emphasise the safety of our little ones, particularly because they wander to their schools with the prospects of meeting their colleagues and their educators. In the midst of this, as they wander, these children come across reckless drivers and those who are uncommitted to the future of our children, pedestrians and our country as well.

Just the other day this very subject was broadcast on national TV, SABC 1. The question was: How do we protect our children and educators from this evil aspect of society? In the same sense, there is a welcome economic resurgence in our economy. This has led to high vehicle sales and also to higher road usage and, equally so, higher rates of pedestrian movement.

The safety of our kids must be a priority; it has to be secured. It is where I see transportation of children being critical, because this critical period, after having left home to go to school - this leg - must be covered. These two legs between home and school become the focal point of danger to our little ones.

Ake ngixoxe kancane ngezinto eziyimbangela yezingozi emigwaqeni yethu. Uphuzo luyinkinga enkulu emigwaqeni yaseNingizimu Afrika. Empeleni kufanele ukuthi imiphakathi yethu uphuzo iluthathe njengento eyihlazo kunokuba iziqhayise ngalo. Iningi lezingozi zezimoto nokufa kwabantu abahamba ngezinyawo libangwa ukweqiswa kophuzo. Siyanxusa ngokukhulu ukuzithoba ukuthi abantu abake bomele ngasekhaya. Safa ubhubhane lwamanzi amponjwana.

Isimo esingemukelekile sezimoto njengamasondo ayizimpandla, amabhuleki angabambi ngokufanele, nokunye nokunye yikhona okudala izingozi. Kwezinye izindawo – abanye abahlonishwa sebeke bakubeka lokhu – izikhintsi emigwaqeni zinkulu zedlula amasondo ezimoto zethu imbala. Ukuhamba futhi ngesivinini eseqile kuyingxenye yomthelela. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Let me briefly tell you about the causes of accidents on our national roads. Drunken driving is a major problem on South African roads. In actual fact, our communities should consider drunken driving as an embarrassment rather than something one can be proud of. Many car accidents and deaths of pedestrians are attributed to drunken driving. We humbly request our people to drink their liquor at their homes. Deliver us from the scourge of drunken driving!

The poor maintenance of vehicles results in worn-out tyres, defective brakes and so on, which are the causes of accidents. In other forums members have already raised concerns about this. Potholes on our national roads are bigger than the size of the tyres of our vehicles. Overspeeding is another contributing factor.]

However, this should not be a transport matter alone. Prosecuting authorities should be sensitive to lawbreakers. Low fines should be discouraged. One is fully aware that our courts are overloaded, hence not enough attention is paid to traffic offences.

The issue of huge differences in fines levied from one jurisdictional area to another is also of concern. Bribery and corruption are other disturbing factors in the existing processes of law enforcement and adjudication. The total result of all these problems is the prime reason for road traffic accidents.

Another element of concern is bad driver behaviour. One sees much of this here in the Western Cape, especially amongst taxi drivers. This would include, among other things, disregarding pedestrians and noncompliance with road signs.

Having said this, one has to mention that levels of law enforcement are totally inadequate. There are few metro police, and they focus on crime and not traffic offences. There is also a lack of visible enforcement by officers who do not produce the work necessary to change driver and pedestrian behaviour.

I’d just like to mention that the national health survey showed that the use of minibus taxis as a travel mode was 29% higher in metropolitan areas than in the rural areas, which was 14%. The second most used mode was the ordinary vehicle. The only other modes that experienced significant use were trains and buses.

All race groups and people in every province indicated that the most important factor to consider when travelling was safety from accidents. So this factor is the overwhelming travel choice. If the concerns about the security are added, the safety and security choice factors then become even more overwhelming.

The department has considerable tools in place to address most of these challenges we are faced with. The Road Traffic Management Corporation Act provides for the establishment of the Road Traffic Management Corporation to enhance the quality of roads, traffic management and service provision.

It is also supposed to strengthen the co-operation with and co-ordination between the national, provincial and local spheres of government in the management of road traffic; to maximise the execution of provincial and local governments´ efforts, particularly in road traffic law enforcement; to create business opportunities, especially for the historically disadvantaged sector; and to guide and sustain the expansion of private- sector investment in road-traffic management.

Okusho ukuthi ngasohlangothini loMnyango wezokuThutha iqhaza labo bona bayazama ukulibamba. Ingcabha-ke isala ngakithina kanye nomphakathi wethu eishlala kuwona. [It therefore means that the Department of Transport tries in all possible ways to play its own role. Sadly, the buck stops with us and the communities we live in.]

There is also the Road Traffic Infringement Agency, which serves as the collection agency for outstanding fines and adjudicates on contested traffic offences. This system is more efficient and effective for administering traffic offences. Another tool in place is the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment Act, which provides for a more efficient system of collecting traffic fines and for the introduction of a points demerit system.

This Act allows for the driver’s licence to be suspended when he or she has 12 penalty points against his or her name. For every point over and above 12, the motorist’s licence will be suspended for a period of three months. Points can easily be accumulated; for example, four penalty points each for exceeding the speed limit by 50%, driving an unregistered vehicle, refusing to undergo a blood or breathalyser test and the use of a hand-held cellphone. All these could cost the motorist points.

Ngiyazi-ke lokhu kokushayela sibambe izincingo yinto ejwayeleke kakhulu kithina cishe sonke. Sengathi singazama ukukugwema lokhu. [I therefore know for a fact that talking on a cellphone whilst driving is something common almost to all of us. If we could please try to avoid this.]

When the driver’s licence is suspended for the third time, it will be cancelled and the motorist will then have to undergo the driver’s test again. In some serious cases, the court may forbid the motorist to drive on a public road again. All these efforts that have been put in place should be the champions of road safety. Arrive Alive has been a very successful communication tool. This campaign is aimed at reducing the number of road traffic accidents in general and fatalities in particular by 5% compared with the same period of the previous year.

However, Arrive Alive has not led to driver behaviour change despite a series of highly emotive television, radio and billboard advertisements. Communication should be in support of enforcement, and there has been too little enforcement to be effective. One has to agree that the rate of pedestrian fatalities is still unacceptably high.

In conclusion, let us all be part of this bigger family, the Department of Transport, in its endeavours in trying to curb accidents and promote road safety. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B E PULE: Chairperson and hon Minister, the Department of Transport has to play an important role in the restructuring of economic growth and the promotion of integrated transport planning. It is, therefore, critical that it must ensure socioeconomic growth through effective public-private partnership of the first and second economies.

These objectives may not be realised, given the road traffic congestion and accident levels in South Africa, which unfortunately is ranked high in the world. It is reported that the cost of accidents to the country in 2005 was approximately R40 billion. There was also an increase of 19,8% in accidents, and again this year an increase in accidents. This is really unacceptable, as human life is very important.

Given an increase of 12% in traffic volumes and an increase of 7% in vehicle registration in 2006, it is a real challenge for the Department of Transport. It is really disheartening to note that alcohol abuse is reported to be the main cause and law enforcement is very minimal, with a fine collection of only 17%.

There are also challenges facing public transport, which accounts for the bulk of the department’s budget. This programme has an average annual increase of 14,9%, reaching R9,4 billion. Most of the expenditure is for public transport subsidies. Despite these allocations, there are also additional allocations in the 2006 Estimates of National Expenditure over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

This budget may not necessarily meet the expectations of our commuters, but burning buses and trains will not solve any problem. It is irresponsible and the UCDP condemns it with the contempt it deserves. Ke a leboga. [Thank you.] [Time expired.]

Mr M T LIKOTSI: Chairperson, during the last Budget Vote debate of this department, the PAC stated its concerns regarding the nonsubsidy to commuters of the taxi industry, as with bus and train commuters.

To date, in this new financial year’s budget, the same position still prevails. Something is not right. Taxi commuters, who contributed to putting this government in office through sweat, tears and blood, are excluded from commuter subsidies.

The R7 billion taxi recapitalisation programme has many shortfalls. Struggling taxi operators are forced to be bought out of business for a mere R50 000 instead of being assisted to keep their heads above water. This is murder.

No right-thinking person may trade off his lifetime investment and be cheaply pushed out of business in this fashion. The only honourable thing to do, hon Minister, is to stop the recapitalisation programme and give subsidies to taxi commuters. [Interjections.] Set standards for taxis that may be subsidised, period.

Let us not be seen as advocating for a free market economy system while on the other hand when it comes to issues that are related to our people, we drive the policy of socialism. Socialism and the socialist principles should only affect major natural resources and not a small industry such as the taxi operators. Let us use the R7 billion today to kick-start the subsidy for taxi commuters.

The provinces should make it convenient for taxi associations to register, as entrenched in our Bill of Rights on rights to association. The Portfolio Committee on Transport should monitor the registration process of taxis at the provincial offices in their oversight duty and expose corrupt dealings by some provincial registrators with vested interests in the taxi industry. [Time expired.] The PAC supports the budget.

Nk W NGWENYA: Sihlalo, malunga ahloniphekile, Ngqongqoshe Jeff Radebe, okokuqala nje ngithi angithathe leli thuba ngithi nxese, ngithi dudu kubo bonke abathe behlelwa yizingozi emigwaqweni yethu. Ngibala namaqhawe ethu aka-ANC nomndeni wami nawo owalinyalelwa engozini yemoto. Ngithi dudu.

Ngizokhuluma ngezithuthi zomphakathi ikakhulu ngigxile ematekisini, maqondana nokuthi kungani lo hulumeni uthe wangenelela kwezamabhizinisi osomatekisi. I-ANC iyasesekela lesi sabiwomali. I-ANC izimisele ukuthuthukisa ngohlelo olusha lwamatekisi ezweni lonke lomzansi ne-Afrika ngoba uhulumeni wobandlululo ukuphela kwebhizinisi angazange alinake leli losomatekisi.

Yingakho uMnyango wezokuThutha uze nalolu hlelo lokuhlela kabusha imboni yezokuthutha ematekisini, olubizwa ngothatha skorokoro. Angazi ukuthi yini abanye bona bethi alungasetshenziswa ngoba niyalizwa ukuthi lithini igama lalo, lithi “thatha iskorokoro.” Iskorokoro ngumkhehlekhehle nje wemoto.

Izolo alifani nakusasa, ukuguqulwa kwezitifiketi ezindala zibe izimvume ezintsha sekuqalile. Lo hulumeni uza nezinguquko. Usuku olubekiwe lomnqamlajuqu umhla ka-31 Meyi 2006 njengoba eseshilo uNgqongqoshe wethu wezokuThutha uMmnu Jeff Radebe. Kanti futhi uhulumeni ka-ANC ukhiphe uhlelo lomxhaso lwama-R50 000 olubhekiswe kosomatekisi ukuze bakwazi ukuguqula izimoto zabo kube ezintsha, khona sizokwazi ukuhlala kahle sibe ntofontofo. Uhulumeni ubambe imihlangano nabantu abathintekayo kulolu hlelo kanti futhi ukwenza lokho kudinga izinsiza.

Ngizothatha imiqondo yenu ngiyibeke eGauteng, lapho lolu hlelo lusezithebeni zikahulumeni wesifunda saseGauteng. UNgqongqoshe wesifundazwe wezokuthutha nemisebenzi yomphakathi usebenza ngokubambisana nazo zonke izinhlangano zamatekisi eGauteng. Lezi zinhlangano zonke zaseGauteng sezibhalisile kulolu hlelo lokuhlela kabusha imboni yamatekisi. Ihhovisi likaNgqongqoshe wesifunda wezokuthutha nemisebenzi yomphakathi lusingethe lolu hlelo ngendlela evulekile maqondana nawo wonke umuntu othintekayo kulolu hlelo.

Ngizonibonisa-ke ukuthi kungani uhulumeni engenelele futhi kulolu daba lwamatekisi. Izinhlangano zamatekisi endaweni yakithi zisebenzisa imizila eminingi eyahlukene, akukho ukubangisana futhi kusetshenziswana kahle. Empeleni, kule ndawo kunezinhlangano ezintathu ezinkulu. Izindlela zazo zimi ngale ndlela elandelayo. ISoweto Taxi Association ebizwa ngokuthi i- STA inamarenki eNaledi kuya eBaragwanath; eNaledi kuya eJohannesburg; eNaledi kuya eKliptown; naseNaledi kuya eLenasia.

Eyesibili inhlangano iSoweto Taxi Services ebizwa ngokuthi i-STS. Ilayisha eNaledi kuya eBaragwanath; eNaledi kuya eKliptown; eNaledi kuya eLenasia. Eyesithathu yi-Witwatersrand Africa Association, i-Wata, okuyilapho ngibekwe ukusebenza khona. Le nhlangano yona isebenzela eMndeni kuya eBaragwanath; eMndeni kuya eJohannesburg; eMndeni kuya eDobsonville; eSakkies kuya eBaragwanath; eSakkies kuya eJohannesburg naseGreen Village.

Zonke lezi zinhlangano engikhuluma ngazo ezendawo lapho ngihlala khona futhi sezilibambile iqhaza kulolu hlelo lukahulumeni. Endaweni sinamarenki amatekisi amaningi akhiwa nguhulumeni omdala. Lapho ngibala amarenki aseNaledi, iNhlazane neSiteshini. Lawa marenki awasetshenziswa amatekisi. Niyabona-ke ukuthi ingakho uhulumeni engenelela? Izinhlangano zamatekisi zizenzela awazo amarenki emakhoneni ezitaladi. Lawa marenki awanele, enjalo nje awakulungele ukufeza izinhloso zawo.

Manje ngizokhuluma ngenselelo ebhekene nabagibeli kukho konke lokhu. Abagibeli bamatekisi bahlangabezana nezimo lapho bezithola behlohlwa okwezinhlanzi emathinini, lapho kuthiwa abahlale ngabane esihlalweni. Lokho kuhlaliswa bakubiza nge“four four” elokishini. Ngesikhathi semvula, amakhaza ebusika, nasemoyeni abagibeli bayahlukumezeka ngoba amarenki lawa okuzenzela awanalo uphahla.

Izimo zamanye amatekisi amaningi zimbi kabi ngendlela yokuthi kwamanye amatekisi unethwa yimvula kodwa ube ugibele futhi ube ukhokhile; kanti kwamanye kumele ubambe isivalo ibe ihamba itekisi, uma kungenjalo uzophuma naso isivalo. Amanye amatekisi awekho esimweni sendlela njengoba udadewethu oqeda ukusuka lapha eseshilo ukuthi umthetho kufanele uthathe umsebenzi wawo. Awekho esimweni sendlela kodwa ahamba egibelisa abantu. Amanye awanawo amabhuleki, bawashayela ngama-screwdrivers nangezincingo. Lokhu kubeka izimpilo zabantu engozini enkulu. Yingakho uhulumeni engenelele ngalokhu kuhlela kabusha imboni yamatekisi okungafunwayo.

Lawa matekisi aziwa ngokuthi izikorokoro, imikhehlekhehle. Uma bekuzwe usho njalo abanikazi bamatekisi bayakukhipha etekisini. Uyaphuma yize usukhokhile. Kusukela ngesikhathi sikahulumeni wobandlululo imboni yamatekisi ayizange yanakwa. Lokhu kwenze ukuthi abamatekisi banganaki izimpilo zabantu nezimoto zanganakwa. Siyazinaka ke thina singuhulumeni ka ANC.

Maqondana nokuziphatha kwabashayeli nabasizi babo, abagibeli bazithola bethukwa, behlukunyezwa abashayeli kanye nabasizi babo kanti futhi nabo abasizi baphathwa kabi abanikazi bezimoto. Into efunekayo ukuthi abashayeli kanye nabasizi babo bake bafundiswe ukuziphatha nokusebenzisana nabagibeli. Uhulumeni lapha uza nezinhlelo eziningi. Okunye sebekubalile abafowethu nodadewethu abasanda kusuka lapha.

Manje sengifuna ukukhuluma ngalolu hlelo olubizwa ngokuthi iShova Kalula. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Ms W NGWENYA: Chairperson, hon members and Minister Jeff Radebe, firstly let me use this opportunity to pay tribute to all the heroes who fell on our roads. Here I am referring to the families, including my own family, who lost their loved ones and ANC heroes in road accidents. To those left behind I say: “Be comforted.”

I will talk about the public transport system and my speech will focus on the taxi industry. I will mention why this government has involved itself in the taxi industry. Firstly, the ANC supports this Budget Vote. The ANC supports the taxi recapitalisation programme in this industry, because this is the only business industry that the apartheid government did not pay attention to.

It is for this very reason that the Department of Transport introduced this programme of rejuvenating the taxi industry, dubbed Operation Thath’ Iskorokoro. I am not too sure though why certain people say this should not be done, because you can see that the name is self-explanatory. It says “Operation Thath’ Iskorokoro”, which means ``Operation Remove the Jalopy.’’ A jalopy is a dilapidated old car.

Yesterday is not like tomorrow. The programme of changing the old taxi permits to operating licences has already started. This government is coming up with changes. The deadline, as our own Minister of Transport Mr Jeff Radebe has stated, is 31 May 2006 and the ANC government has issued a scrapping allowance of R50 000 per vehicle so that the taxi owners can start with new, comfortable taxis. The government has had meetings with the concerned parties and there is a need for infrastructure. I will take your minds to Gauteng, where this matter is now in the hands of the provincial government there. The MEC for Public Transport, Roads and Works is working co-operatively with all taxi associations in Gauteng. All these Gauteng taxi associations are registered for this taxi recapitalisation programme. The office of the MEC is handling this matter openly, visible to all those who are affected by this programme.

I will tell you the reasons why the government intervened in the taxi industry. Taxi associations in my area use many different routes. There is no fierce rivalry and they work very well. In fact, in the area there are three big associations. Their routes are as follows: Soweto Taxi Association, known as STA, has routes from Naledi to Baragwanath, Naledi to Johannesburg, Naledi to Kliptown and from Naledi to Lenasia.

The second association is Soweto Taxi Services, known as STS. It carries passengers from Naledi to Baragwanath, from Naledi to Kliptown and from Naledi to Lenasia. The third one is Witwatersrand Africa Association, the Wata, where I am deployed to work. This association operates from Mndeni to Baragwanath, from Mndeni to Johannesburg, from Mndeni to Dobsonville, from Sakkies to Baragwanath and from Sakkies to Johannesburg and the Green Village.

All these associations I am talking about are based in my local area and they are playing a major role in this government programme. In our vicinity we have many taxi ranks which were built by the old government. I am referring to the ranks in Naledi, Nhlazane and Siteshini. These ranks are not used by the taxis. Do you see why the government intervenes? The taxi associations create their own taxi ranks on street corners. These taxi ranks are not enough and they are not serving the purpose they were meant for.

Now I am going to talk about the challenges faced by the passengers in all this. The taxi passengers face the situation where they find themselves being packed like fish in tins, where they are told to sit in fours on the seats. This type of sitting is called four-four in the townships. On rainy days, on cold winter days and on windy days the commuters suffer because these open-air taxi ranks have no roofs.

Many of these taxis are in such a bad condition that rain penetrates them and you get wet sitting inside and having paid for the transport. In some taxis you have to hold the door while the taxi is in motion, otherwise you can fall out of the taxi together with the door. Others are not roadworthy and, as the sister who spoke here has said, the law should take its course. They are not roadworthy but they do carry passengers. Others have no brakes and the drivers drive them with screwdrivers and with wire. This puts people’s lives in great danger. That is why the government has intervened with the recapitalisation programme of the taxi industry, which some people do not want. These taxis are known as ``izikorokoro’’ [jalopies]. If the taxi owners hear you saying that, they take you out of the taxi. You get out even if you have already paid. Since the apartheid government the taxi industry has not been cared for and this caused taxi owners not to look after people’s lives and after their own taxis. We as the ANC government will take care of them.

Regarding the behaviour of drivers and their assistants, the passengers are sworn at and abused by drivers and their assistants and the same applies to the assistants who get abused by the taxi owners. We need to teach the drivers and their assistants how to behave and to work hand in hand with the passengers. The government is coming up with many programmes, some of which have been mentioned by the brothers and sisters who have spoken.

Now I want to talk about this programme called Shova Kalula.]

The Department of Transport has implemented the Shova Kalula bicycle programme to ensure flexibility and reduced traffic congestion on roads. Bicycle transport is a cheaper, reliable and flexible mode of travelling, to cater for both urban and rural people, to reduce delays and travel periods.

Kulapho-ke sifake amakhosikazi ukuthi ake alungise le migwaqo. Asiyivali kodwa siyayilungisa, siyayinweba. Amakhosikazi amaningi aseGauteng yiwo lawa alungisa imigwaqo, ukuze abantu bakwazi ukuthenga amabhayisikili futhi bathole indawo yokuhamba ngoba leya migwaqo eyayakhiwe uhulumeni mincane, ayikho indlela yokuhamba ngamabhayisikili.

Bengifuna ukukhuluma ngezamabhasi kodwa ngihlushwa yisikhathi, bengizonaba kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[That is where we hired women to construct these roads. We are not closing them but we are constructing and widening them. The majority of Gauteng women are the ones constructing the roads so that people will be able to buy bicycles and be able to walk on the road. The roads that were built by the government were narrow; there was no space to ride a bicycle.

I wanted to talk about the buses, but the time is very limited and I was going to talk about them at length.]

The bus industry in South Africa has for many years made a vital contribution to the economic development of the country. As a provider of service, it has provided, and continues to provide, mobility to our people who depend on public transport to get to and from work, for shopping, seeking employment and to transport people to school. According to available statistics, 80% of South Africa’s population is totally dependent on public transport for their mobility needs.

Uma sengiphetha, ngithi, kafushane nje, lo mbiko uhlose ukuveza izimo zokuthutha abantu ezingeni likazwelonke. Izimoto zokuthutha zidinga ukubhekisiswa ukuze kuhlangatshezwane nezidingo zezakhamuzi zezwe. Uma kufika kwezokuthutha emphakathini wethu, uhulumeni ka-ANC kumele abhekisise futhi athathe izinqumo ezihlolisisiwe kahle, kuhambisane nezidingo zomuntu wonke.

Lo mbiko uqhakambisa isidingo sokwenzela abantu impilo engcono futhi uxhumana kahle nohlelo lukahulumeni lokuthuthukisa ezomnotho olubizwa nge- Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[In conclusion, I would like to say that this report is about the conditions under which people are transported nationally. The taxis need to be looked at carefully so that we will be able to meet the requirements of the citizens of this country. If we are talking about the transport in our communities, the ANC government must be careful and take proper decisions that will be in line with the people’s needs.

This report clearly shows the need to make people’s lives better and it aligns with the government programme for economic development called the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF applauds the department’s initiatives to manage, develop and sustain an accessible, safe and cost-effective transport sector for South Africa. Rail, road, sea or sky, South Africa is showing much improvement in the sector, even though challenges do still hinder progress.

The MF is especially pleased with the department’s initiatives to maintain the taxi industry. The conditions under which taxi drivers are employed, and the safety of passengers and other commuters, as well as the roadworthiness of taxis are crucial factors, which the department is addressing effectively and efficiently. Although some dissatisfaction has been expressed by many taxi drivers, the MF supports the department’s endeavours to make this means of transport safer and accessible.

The MF welcomes the department’s nominal growth of 13%. We acknowledge that the budget increase is a result of the taxi recapitalisation project, payment to the Road Accident Fund, and the public transfer of infrastructure in the light of the Gautrain project, as well as the building of public infrastructure for the 2010 Soccer World Cup. The MF supports the growth in the public transport programme.

Lastly, we seek that the conditions of our national roads be seriously monitored and maintained, as road safety strongly depends on the conditions of our roads. Further, we express our interest in how the department intends addressing traffic congestion.

As for aviation, the MF is pleased with the performance of SA Airways, but we seek a reduction in prices to make travel more accessible to our middle- and lower-income sectors.

The MF, in view of the department’s programmes and projects, is confident that the sector shall, over this year, introduce a safer and more accessible transport system. The MF supports the Budget Vote.

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, when we debate this Budget Vote today, we must highlight the main aim of the Department of Transport, namely the provision of an integrated, sustainable, reliable and safe transport system. This is a noble objective, and I think we all should support such an objective.

Programme 3 deals with “Transport Regulation and Accident and Incident Investigation” and has the objective of creating “an enabling regulatory environment in the areas of safety, security and environmental compliance, and manage accident and incident investigations in all modes of transport”.

The FD is of the view that much more funding should be made available to Programme 3 so that our public transport becomes much safer. Of late, there have been many newspaper reports on the lack of safety on trains. During the recent strike, several commuters lost their lives because they were thrown from moving trains. There was no security present to protect them. Robberies are a daily occurrence for many train commuters. Metrorail does not do enough to protect the property and person of regular commuters. In several recent court cases, Metrorail denied having responsibility for protecting their commuters.

The FD welcomes the new allocation to the taxi recapitalisation project. We also welcome the announcement made by the hon Minister today, that 85% of our taxi operators have applied, and that 10 000 minibus taxis will be scrapped by December 2006. The scrapping of old, unsafe minibus taxis cannot be wrong, irrespective of our political philosophy. The life of one commuter is more valuable than 10 000 minibus taxis. In conclusion, the FD supports this Budget Vote.

Mr M M SWATHE: Chairperson, I thank the Minister of Transport for the input delivered on the Budget Vote of Transport today. However, the Budget Vote still does not adequately address the major concerns and problems facing South Africa.

Our prime concern is the continued lack of funds, which are not allocated correctly, as per demand, considering that nearly R2,7 billion is channelled to the Road Accident Fund alone.

The taxi recapitalisation programme is now six years old, and only a small number of the estimated 90 000 existing taxis have been replaced. In City Press of 23 April 2006, the Minister is quoted as saying that only 10 000 taxis will be scrapped in this financial year. The delays have also resulted in the scrapping fee being increased from R10 000 to R50 000, and the cost of the new 18-seater taxi vehicle has nearly doubled from the original estimated price of R120 000 to R250 000 per unit. This has major ramifications for taxi owners in terms of affordability and viability.

The turbulent taxi industry is continuously under threat, with fluctuating fuel prices and high maintenance costs. The delays have resulted in the already ageing taxi fleet becoming older and, in many cases, unroadworthy and unsafe for public use.

The one-off capital subsidy does not take into account future subsidisation of the taxi industry as the largest of our public transporters, representing 60% of public transport. Nearly R4,7 billion, the largest share of the budget of the national Department of Transport, goes to the bus and rail industries, and it is still not known whether taxis can qualify for these subsidies.

The bus industry also needs to be checked and the roadworthiness of buses and the fitness of drivers need to be assessed. During April, the media reported bus accidents, which killed many people and left some critically injured. These accidents happened on Moloto Road and other high accident frequency roads.

The DA’s policy focuses on the safety of passengers and how commuters can be subsidised, as opposed to operators. The DA believes that the introduction of a multi-ticketing system will help in this regard and the department should investigate this further.

Minister, the intended merger of Metrorail’s Shosholoza Meyl into the SA Rail Commuter Corporation does not seem to have materialised, according to your plans. Disputes are still continuing about salaries, pensions and its ultimate restructuring.

In the interim commuters are becoming more frustrated, and trains have been burnt. Damage continues unabated and violence appears to be the norm. The transport police units’ influence has not yet taken hold and the recent security worker strike saw many innocent commuters thrown out of trains, resulting in Metrorail having to consider the use of the SA National Defence Force.

Can we really see something happening to stop deaths and injuries on our trains and railway lines? How long will this continue before we see action? Surely prevention is better than cure, and therefore more visible security is needed.

Le ge lefapha lekhwi le hweditše kokeletšo yeo e menaganego mengwageng ye lesome ya go feta, ga se ya hlwe e kgona go ka tswalela sekgoba sa tšhalelo- morago. Se ke seo DA e dikilego e se laetša ngwaga ka ngwaga.

Mohlomphegi Tona, mafarahlahla a ditsela a akanyetšwa go bitša R500 billion. Go ya ka lekgotla la South African Roads Federation, go tšwela pele ka go aba tšhelete ya fase mengwaga ya go feta 25 go hlotše dipoelo tšeo di sa kgahlišego tša boemo bja tlase bja ditsela le go dithoto. Go ya ka fao lekgotla la SARF le akantšego, go nyakega R10 billion le go feta fao go bušetša mafarahlahla a ditsela sekeng. Ka nako ya kabo ya ditšhelete SARD e bile ya bega ka ga seemo seo se sa kgotsofatšego sa ditšhelete le ge lefapha le lekile go oketša mašeleng. Eupša mašeleng ao ga a ka a tliša diphetogo. A be a hlaela go ya ka kgoolo ya theko ya didirišwa.

Nepo ya SARD e be e le go godiša mafahlahla a ditsela ka dikhilomethara tše 3 170 go tloga ka la 31 Matšhe 2005. Se se laetša nhla ya mathata ao a nyakago magato a bjako ka ge go se lokišwe ga ditsela ka bjako go hlola tshenyegelo yeo e menaganego gašupa go hlola mathata go ikonomi ya Afrika Borwa. Mohlomphegi Tona, ge R20 billion yeo e šomišwago protšekeng ya Gautrain, yeo e lego ``tlou ye tšhweu’’ ka therešo, go ka se be bothata go laetša Moswaramatlotlo a Setšhaba go hloma le go oketša sekhwama sa go phološa ditsela le dithoto tshenyegong.

Ke a go leboga, Modulasetulo. [Nako e fedile.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Even though this department received a considerable increase over the past 10 years, it did not succeed in clearing their backlog. This is what the DA has been trying to point out every year. Hon Minister, it is estimated that road infrastructure rehabilitation is going to cost R500 billion. According to the South African Roads Board, the low budget allocation during the past 25 years has brought about negative results with regard to poor roads and cargo services.

According to the recommendations from SARB, an amount of more than R10 billion is required for the rehabilitation of these roads. During the budget allocation the SARB complained about the department’s unsatisfactory financial status, in spite of the increase. The increase did not bring about much change, because of the increase in expenditure.

The SARB’s main objective was to extend the road infrastructure to 3 170 km from 31 March 2005. This shows that the matter needs urgent attention because, if the road is not reconstructed, then there will be a waste, creating problems for the South African economy.

Hon Minister, if R20 billion is being spent on the Gautrain project, which is a white elephant for real, then it will not be difficult to convince the Governor of the Reserve Bank to increase the budget for rehabilitation and cargo services.

Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]]

Mr M I MOSS: Comrade Minister, Deputy Ministers, hon members, distinguished guests and especially the delegation from Hout Bay up there in the gallery [Applause.], I would like to dedicate my speech today to the many fishermen who have drowned while working under the most unsafe and unpleasant conditions at sea and lost their lives with little and no compensation.

The South African Maritime Safety Authority, Samsa, is an agency under the auspices of the Department of Transport and is tasked with the responsibilities of ensuring the safety of life and property at sea, to prevent and combat pollution from ships and to promote South Africa’s maritime interests.

The mandate of Samsa is thus very important, as it has to do with matters of life and death of people and has to set safety standards and measures for punishment on violation by vessels. These measures make the environment conducive for safe trade and goods transportation through the import and export of goods at our ports, which contribute to the gross domestic product of our country. Comrade Jeremy has alluded to the above.

’n Maand gelede is ek deur die gemeenskap van Houtbaai uitgenooi om as spreker op te tree tydens ’n roudiens waar vissermanne vir die soveelste keer hul lewens aan die rowwe en onstuimige see moes afstaan. Die vyf vissermanne het gesterf, ondanks die feit dat hulle veiligheidstoerusting aangehad het. Enkele dae nadat die vissermanne begrawe is, het nog ’n jong visserman van dieselfde omgewing verdrink.

Navorsing het getoon dat om as ’n visserman op see te werk een van die mees gevaarlike beroepe is. Die feite wat die navorsing beaam is onder andere: Dat vissermanne gewoonlik die rowwe en onstuimige see moet trotseer; die werkoppervlak op die bote is beperk; en dat die vis se vette en olie die werkvlak glad en glyerig maak, wat gevaarlik is.

As ’n persoon wat in ’n vissersgemeenskap gebore is en grootgeword het, is dit vir my, en ek neem aan vir al die agb lede van die Parlement – vir jou ook, Comrade Bloem – onaanvaarbaar dat so baie vissermanne hulle lewe aan die see moet afstaan. In die meeste gevalle is hulle die enigste broodwinners. Dit is ook alombekend dat veral die vissers wat op die klein bote werk nie gedek word deur die vergoeding wat werkers van die Ongevallekommissaris kry indien hulle aan diens sterf of op see beseer word nie.

Pastoor Johannes Dreyer van die Houtbaai Christian Initiative en Timothy Jacobs van die Houtbaai Civic Organisation wat die roudiens georganiseer het, het tydens die roudiens spesifieke aanbevelings en voorstelle gemaak. Samsa sal, saam met hulle, moet kyk wat meer gedoen kan word om die lewe van veral die vissermanne op see te beskerm. [Applause.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[A month ago I was invited as guest speaker at a memorial service for the Hout Bay community, where fishermen had, for the umpteenth time, lost their lives to the rough and stormy seas. The five fishermen had lost their lives in spite of the fact that they had worn their life jackets. A few days after the fishermen were buried, another young fisherman from the same area lost his life.

Research has shown that working as a fisherman at sea is one of the most dangerous professions. The facts, backed up by research, are inter alia: That fishermen usually have to brave the rough and stormy seas; that the boats have limited working surface; and that the fat from the fish and oil result in the working area becoming smooth and slippery, which is dangerous.

As one born and bred in a fishing community, it is to me, and I take it to all hon members of Parliament – you too, Comrade Bloem – unacceptable that so many fishermen should give up their lives to the sea. In most cases they are the sole breadwinners. It is a known fact that especially fishermen working on the small boats are not covered by the compensation that workers, under the jurisdiction of the Accident Commissioner, receive in the case of death on duty or injury at sea.

Pastor Johannes Dreyer from the Hout Bay Christian Initiative and Timothy Jacobs from the Hout Bay Civic Organisation who organised the memorial service, made specific recommendations and suggestions during the memorial service. Samsa will, in collaboration with them, have to look into what more can be done in order to protect the lives of specifically fishermen at sea. [Applause.]]

In 2002 the then Minister of Transport, Abdullah Omar, launched an initiative to bring a stop to the senseless loss of life of fishermen. Minister Jeff Radebe took it further. The Safety Awareness Programme was launched and fishermen along the coast of South Africa were trained in all aspects of safety on small fishing vessels and it went beyond the safety of workers, as it also addressed the problem of alcohol and drug abuse.

The training included the development of revised training and certification standards for fishing vessel personnel. These standards also seek to ensure appropriate, quality and portable skills for seafarers. Samsa also continues to work with industry stakeholders, the training establishments and the transport Sita, Teta, to ensure that issues around training and development are addressed on an ongoing basis.

The programme showed a vast improvement, but the number of catastrophic fatal incidents in the past year negated the progress made since 2002. According to the Samsa Annual Operations Unit Report of last year, there has been an increase in fatal incidents and the number of deaths has more than doubled. Factors such as an increase in surveys for small vessel and racing yachts are some of the contributing factors of the operations unit report.

Some of the fatal catastrophic incidents of the past year have been the two marine tragedies where the fishing vessel, Lindsay, drowned in a collision with a cargo vessel and 14 of its crew members died and the South African sailing yacht, Moquini, which went missing with its six crew members who drowned.

A notable achievement and important shift of Samsa is now occurring with concrete proposals focusing on the human element issues in fishing and stevedoring industries where the development of standards for compulsory accident insurance for all seafarers will be implemented.

These standards seek to ensure a minimum level of financial compensation for seafarers and their dependents in the event of personal injury or death, especially where they are not covered by the Compensation for Occupational Injuries and Diseases Act. The portfolio committee is waiting for the department and Minister to table these proposals and to support them. Another achievement for the year was the adoption of amendments at the Marine Environmental Protection Committee. This new special area will make a significant contribution towards the protection of the marine environment from pollution from ships. The challenge is to ensure that the area is properly policed through effective monitoring and response capabilities.

Samsa is committed to work with the key government role-players, namely the Departments of Transport and Environmental Affairs and Tourism. Samsa is currently going through restructuring and the need for better service delivery will, hopefully, also improve – hence the increase in the 2006- 2007 budget.

I shall not do this debate justice if I do not touch on the issue of inaccessibility to a public transport system by persons with disabilities in our country. The public transport system excludes disabled persons and, as a victim of our unacceptably high road accident statistics, I regard myself qualified to speak on this subject.

Since disabled persons constitute one of the most vulnerable groups in our society and are making use of public transport on a daily basis as part of their daily lives, the need for a safe, affordable, accessible and efficient public transport system for disabled persons is very important. The introduction of the new Taxi Recapitalisation Programme should begin to address exactly that.

Disabled persons have a slogan, which says “Nothing about us without us”. The disabled sector of our society is concerned with the response they got from the Department of Transport on a question regarding transport for disabled persons. The Department of Transport is saying that not all, but certain taxis, will be accessible to disabled persons.

The three accessible public pilot projects currently running in Cape Town, Durban and Johannesburg must now improve and reach maturity so as to become best practices for other municipalities and provinces. The Department must also roll out a safety training campaign for commuters, drivers and transport workers.

I am informed by disabled persons and their respective structures that, to them, universal access to all modes of transportation is key. There must be continuous consultation with the disability sector to ensure a sustainable and integrated transport plan.

The then minister, Abdullah Omar, once visited our constituency. He came to the meeting and he was late. He told us that, as the Minister of Transport, there is no way he could speed and exceed the speed limit, and in so doing he would also ensure that he reaches his destination safe. That is the encouragement we want to take to our people today. We don’t need more disabled persons, and most of the disabled persons that we have today are as a result of accidents on the road.

Comrade Jeremy Cronin alluded to this earlier when he said that 14% of all road accidents result in people who become disabled and we must really walk on to ensure that we don’t add to the already high number of disabled persons in our country. [Interjections.]

As we all sit here today, remember we are all potential disabled persons, because tomorrow you might find yourself injured in an accident and then adding to their ranks. [Interjections.] We don’t want more disabled persons. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Chairperson, as predicted, the debate has been both instructive and constructive, for which I would like to thank all the hon members who participated in this debate. I would like to make just a few comments on the inputs by colleagues.

Regarding the issue of skills development, as hon Cronin has indicated, there are three areas we are looking at as the Department of Transport, and within the department itself, so that we would be able to up-skill the skills base of the department and be properly positioned to play the strategic role of steering this transport ship.

Secondly, regarding the agencies and state-owned enterprises that report to the Department of Transport, there is a great deal of work that is being done in order to support skills development. Also, concerning the transport sector generally, there is a particular emphasis on engineering across all the subsectors of transport. I received a report from the officials last week and I would therefore urge that the officials brief the portfolio committee, so that it can see the excitement of what is coming across in this skills development strategy, which is going to be fed into the Jipsa programme initiated by the Deputy President.

Concerning the issue of security at airports, it is very clear that the conundrum about safety at airports is that we engage in a constant tussle where criminals and syndicates attempt to outwit whatever systems we try to put in place. But, in general terms, we are satisfied that the airport safety plans are in place. The airports management is doing whatever it can to ensure that our systems are in order. This is in accordance with the national aviation safety plan that has been developed by the department, together with the chief of aviation security in South Africa.

Of course, all these incidents, especially these high-profile ones, are a matter of grave concern to us. The appropriate authorities are dealing with these matters in order to ensure that we can be able to pounce on the perpetrators.

There are a number of positive developments as far as security is concerned, particularly at the Johannesburg International Airport. Firstly, the physical wall around the Johannesburg International Airport on the entire airside has been completed. We have also installed CCV cameras. They have already employed the manager whose job is to look after security, so that we can be able to co-ordinate security matters.

The new equipment is in place and also internal robust checks are being undertaken by the Airports Company South Africa in order to enhance the security at our airports. Also, we are of the view that, compared to other countries, our airports are in fact compliant with the International Civil Aviation Organisation, ICAO, standards, as has been seen when I commissioned an audit with ICAO and the International Air Transport Association, who gave a very positive response concerning the security measures at our airports.

Hon Farrow, regarding advertisements on the structures of the department, we, shortly, are going to advertise posts for directors-general and chief directors. The hon Farrow is also urged to apply. [Laughter.] I am sure he will be favourably considered. [Laughter.]

On a more serious note, concerning the issue of dedicated transport lanes, our strategic plan, which I believe the portfolio committee received a couple of days ago when we briefed them, clearly states our intention to designate - where they do not exist - dedicated public transport lanes, and to enforce the regulations where the dedicated transport lanes are already in place, in areas such as Cape Town.

We have also set ourselves a target of achieving this in all the metropolitan areas of South Africa by the end of this financial year. We are also going to ensure that we co-ordinate with enforcement agencies so that we can be able to enforce these measures.

We have also done an assessment of last year’s Transport Month. One of the things that we want to pilot is particularly the issue of dedicated public transport lanes. We are thinking of maybe dedicating one week in October this year, where we are going to ensure that in all the major metropolitan areas we support people who go by public transport, not the car-free day, but pro-public transport day.

Coming to road maintenance issues, this is a very interesting legacy. The previous government, between 1975 and 1990, actually halved the investment in roads in South Africa. Given the nature of roads and pavements rehabilitation, the cumulative impact of that decline has been even larger since 2000. However, we are seeing an increase in our investment in road infrastructure in real terms. This allows us to begin a long whole task of ensuring that we do whatever we can in order to improve the situation.

Concerning the famous N12, I am pleased to indicate to hon members that this was a provincial road. So the province has now applied to the National Roads Agency to have it transferred into the national department, through the roads agency. We are beginning to do work and I hope that when we meet again next year, there will be a great deal of progress on the N12. [Applause.]

Regarding the travel demand management model, we are developing a travel demand management strategy. We hope that this will be completed before the end of this current year. As part of the model we are going to focus on high-occupancy lanes and on congestion management. When the report is fully ready, we will be able to report to the portfolio committee.

The issue of tour operators is a matter of concern to us as well. We were, in fact, talking about this particular issue at the last Minmec that was held last week here in Cape Town, so that we can be able to ensure that we improve the situation. Where appropriate, we are also prepared to amend the legislation in order to ensure that this issue is addressed properly.

Regarding the famous Road Accident Fund, I am very happy to hear that Members of Parliament are pleased by the turnaround that is emerging within the fund. Your views are actually my views. For the first time since I started at Transport in 2004 - when Jacob Modise, Danisa Baloyi and the board talked to me about the Road Accident Fund – I can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel and that this is a group of individuals who, in fact, are focusing on changing the Road Accident Fund for the better. Viva Danisa! Viva Modise! [Applause.]

There is a lot of enthusiasm from Members of Parliament about Namibia and officials of the department who interacted with Namibia. The Namibian colleagues want to know more about our system. So you have to go very far away to realise that we are leaving the good things at home. Nevertheless, we are interacting so that we can be able to learn some of the positive lessons from Namibia.

Concerning the issue of the Gautrain, our involvement is not isolated – it was motivated by the importance of integrated planning. We believe that the Gautrain is now a project of national strategic significance. We are going to ensure that we do everything we can so that it is properly integrated into rail, bus or taxi service systems and networks. This is to enable us to provide an integrated ticketing system so that it really becomes the backbone of public transport in Gauteng.

When it comes to the issue of the Public Transport Infrastructure and Systems Fund, some of the conditions with regard to its implementation are to make sure that we support small and medium enterprises, and also that the principles of the Expanded Public Works Programme are taken into consideration when we fund projects of this nature. We have initiated a monitoring mechanism so that we can ensure that these conditions are complied with by all those who are beneficiaries of the fund.

Regarding the safety of children on our roads - the road safety education - we have begun a joint programme with the Department of Education where we have developed a curriculum for children from Grade 0 to Grade 8. There is a budget of R6 million to ensure that, in partnership with the Department of Education, we will be able to impart knowledge from an earlier age to our children in order to improve road safety in South Africa.

The second programme is a scholar partnership programme, which is proceeding very well in many provinces where scholars are being taught about the implementation of the rules of the road. In addition, we also provide illuminated clothing in many schools as part of the effort to improve our road safety in South Africa.

Concerning the issue of subsidising the taxis, the R50 000 scrapping allowance is actually a form of capital subsidy. The strategy that has been developed and which we are currently proceeding with is part and parcel of our desire to reform the public subsidy system in South Africa, in order to ensure that the taxi industry also participates in operations of the public subsidy system.

Already, there are areas where the taxi industries form part and parcel of consortia that are given the contracts of these buses in our country. As we move towards the implementation of the Taxi Recapitalisation Programme, I am certain that we are going to see more and more taxi people being involved in the subsidised system in South Africa.

On the issue of Metrorail and the Rail Commuter Corporation, as hon members are aware, as of 1 May there is no longer an isolated Metrorail. There is one passenger rail in South Africa that is S A Rail Commuter Corporation, which is now operating Metrorail. The only outstanding thing is Shosholoza Meyl, which is going to join this merger in the next financial year, 2007.

Lastly, concerning maritime issues I want to thank the hon Moss for raising such critical issues regarding this aspect. I just want to respond to him on the issue that he has raised about the recent incident in our seas. There has been the issue of the Lindsay. We commissioned a marine court of inquiry, which has already deliberated on the issues at hand.

Regarding part of their recommendations to improve safety at sea, particularly referring to fishermen or women, I have asked the Department of Transport to make sure that we can fast-track the implementation of the recommendations that they have made, including the issues related to improving and amending legislation in order to ensure that the compulsory accident insurance is effected.

Therefore, there has been consultation in this particular regard. So we suppose that, very shortly, we will be able to move. We agree with the sentiments and comments that you have made.

In conclusion, I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all my MECs of transport, with whom I work very closely in championing the issues of transport in South Africa and many of whom are present in the gallery today. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Director-General of the Department of Transport, Mpumi Mpofu, for the sterling work that she does together with her team at the Department of Transport, including my special advisor, Ian Phillips, for making sure that we are able to make a difference in transport in South Africa.

I also want to appreciate the role of the transport portfolio committee in Parliament and the Chair, Mr Jeremy Cronin, for the leadership they are providing in terms of transport in Parliament. I do hope we will continue our dialogue, so that we can provide as much information as possible to be able to make laws befitting the challenges that transport has in South Africa.

I would like to thank the agencies, all the Chairs, chief executives, top management and board members of all the agencies that report to transport without whom many of these challenges would be very difficult to accomplish.

I would also like to thank my family, my wife, Bridgett, who is also in the gallery, for tolerating me in terms of focusing on the Public Service. [Applause.] But I am sure she has heard today how complex the transport portfolio is so that she will understand why I am always called by the director-general, provinces, and municipalities. My friends in the taxi industry also give us a lot of things to do in South Africa.

In conclusion, I also take this opportunity to invite members to a reception that starts at 6 o’clock that will take place at St Francis Catholic Church, KwaLanga Township. Because we are focusing on the transport debate today, we have organised some minibus taxis to transport hon members to the venue. They are recapitalised. What we are not certain about at this stage is whether they are 100% safety requirement compliant, but we are satisfied that they are almost compliant. So please enjoy a ride from the minibus taxis to KwaLanga Township. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

 INDEPENDENT COMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY OF SOUTH AFRICA AMENDMENT BILL

(Consideration of Bill, Report of Portfolio Committee on Communications thereon, and President’s reservations on constitutionality of Bill as submitted to him)

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Chairperson and hon members of this House, in 2000, when the Icasa, Independent Communications Authority of SA, Act was passed, we were one of the first countries that recognised the need for a joint body to regulate broadcasting and telecommunications.

Technology has advanced further and South Africa is, once again, one of the few countries in the world to create policy and regulatory conditions for a converging ICT - information and communications technology - sector. This we do not because it is fashionable, but because we have recognised that ICTs are essential tools for socioeconomic development.

At its lekgotla last year Cabinet identified lowering the cost of doing business in South Africa as essential to achieving higher rates of investment in the economy of our country. Access to and cost of communications are critical in meeting our socioeconomic development goals. It is in this context that Cabinet prioritised the strengthening of our regulatory institutions in all sectors.

On our part, we had a twin legislative process to ensure that the ICT sector contributes to meeting the country’s development goals. These are the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act, which has been signed, and the Icasa Amendment Bill that is before you today. We are confident that if we provide an enabling environment, one that is regulated well, our ICT sector will play its part in meeting the national aspirations.

Professionalism, speed of action, decisiveness, flexibility, excellence and experience are important features of a strong regulator, a regulator which is truly an authority in its work, a regular whose stature is recognised and respected by all. That is the kind of strong regulator we are committed to building.

Building a strong independent regulator requires a commitment from government to creating the conditions for three things, namely empowering legislation, financial support, and the appointment of the best people who are committed to serving in its leadership and its staff.

So how does this Bill strengthen Icasa? Firstly, it increases the number of councillors, taking into account its new task in relation to the regulation of the postal sector. Secondly, it clearly separates the appointment of the chairperson of the authority from that of other councillors. This makes it easier to attract people with not only experience in the sector, but also the leadership attributes required of a country with a developmental state.

Thirdly, it makes provision for the use, by the National Assembly, of industry experts and stakeholders in the appointment process, thus increasing the prospects of getting the appropriate types of people, different kinds of expertise and experience for the time.

Fourthly, the Bill provides for the executive to select from a list, provided by the National Assembly, the candidate or candidates that seem most likely to contribute to the implementation and achievement of the country’s development agenda at the time.

Fifthly, it provides for the scientific, individual and collective performance-management system to assess the authority, thus reducing the number of subjective and/or unsubstantiated complaints about its performance or the lack thereof. Sixthly, it makes it compulsory for all councillors to sign a performance agreement, thus ensuring that all of them do their bit in the work of the authority.

As the House may recall, the President returned the original amending Bill with some concerns about three provisions in which there could be possible constitutional challenges. He called for the role of Parliament to be strengthened. We believe that this amending Bill has now addressed those concerns. It ensures that Parliament takes responsibility for the appointments and gives the Minister tools to ensure not only the quality, but also the accountability of the regulator. It also ensures that the regulator continues to enjoy the protection of its independence under chapter 9 of the Constitution.

This amending Bill guarantees the independence of the authority not for its sake; it guarantees this independence in the context of a developing country, with clear policies within which the authority must regulate. It brings us closer to international best practice in this area. In fact, I can say without fear of contradiction that it takes us to the top of that international best practice.

We will have a world-class regulator that is indeed independent, but one that will contribute to our goals of, one, achieving higher rates of investment in the economy; two, increasing the competitiveness of our economy; three, broadening participation in the economy; four, building a better world; and, lastly, improving the capacity of the state to deliver on its mandate.

I therefore ask Parliament to pass this Bill so that we can ensure that the ICT sector indeed takes South Africa to higher ground. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G G OLIPHANT: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers of Communications, esteemed Members, comrades, friends, ladies and gentlemen, it is late in the day, and we want to finish this matter today.

Icasa is the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, which was enacted into being in 2000 to regulate broadcasting and telecommunications matters. Technology and other developments in the information and communications technology sector are rapidly moving towards convergence, hence the promulgation of the Electronic Communications Act in 2006.

The ANC intends to keep the independence of the regulator, Icasa, intact. The President’s letter to the Speaker of the National Assembly, dated 11 April 2006, further strengthened our assertion. In his letter, the President raised reservations about the possible constitutional challenge in the Bill relating to the appointment, removal and performance management of the council. The President insisted that this process should remain driven by the National Assembly. I am happy to report that we have fully complied with the President’s request.

The centrality of the National Assembly is reasserted. Once more, the separation of powers between the legislature and the executive is enhanced, and we thank the Presidency for its wise counsel.

Following the President’s letter, the Speaker of the National Assembly referred the remitted Bill to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for consideration. Her letter dated 24 April 2006 was well received, and on 24 May 2006, a month later, the committee concluded its work.

We wish to thank all members of the portfolio committee, across party lines, who participated so enthusiastically in this process for their co- operation and consistency. Thank you Madame Vos. Thank you Madame Smuts, and everybody else in the ANC.

We had noted abstentions from some opposition parties during the committee voting process. However, we are happy to report that the majority of members voted in favour of these amendments.

In line with Joint Rule 203, the committee confined itself to clauses 7, 9 and 11 of the amending Bill, which formed the basis for the President’s reservations. The appointment, removal and performance management and evaluation of the council will continue to be driven by Parliament.

Clause 7 seeks to amend section 5 of the principle Act relating to the constitution and appointment of councillors to the council. The National Assembly committee will henceforth be seized with the process of appointing eight councillors and a chairperson for Icasa according to the principles of public participation in the nomination process, transparency and openness.

The committee may, in the process, also invite technical experts to assist in the selection, evaluation and appointment of councillors, if so required. All parties on the committee will participate.

The committee is expected to submit at least one-and-a-half times the numbers required for the Minister’s appointment, following approval by the National Assembly. To give an example, in the near future, at least by the end of June this year, we will have five vacancies in Icasa. What the committee should do is to interview people and give the Minister at least eight names to choose from, eight of the best. So, those names will be coming from the National Assembly, and we insist and intend to give only the best.

The National Assembly will also play a central role in the establishment of a performance management system. An evaluation panel may be established for that purpose.

On the removal provisions, no councillor may be removed from office without a resolution to that effect by the National Assembly. With all these safeguards in place, the chairperson and councillors are expected to sign a performance agreement.

We therefore submit that Icasa remains strengthened, independent and ready to face the new challenges of this environment. The ANC supports the Bill as amended. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Chairperson, please allow me to note that we find it strange that the hon the Minister of Communications introduced this Bill after it was referred back to the National Assembly by the President. But, she was obviously not speaking in her capacity as a member of this House but as a member of the executive.

When this Bill first arrived in the National Assembly, the ANC was caught between the Department of Communications and the DA. The Department of Communications wanted to take control of Icasa and the DA wanted the Assembly to stay in charge.

Now, the compromise reached between us at this first stage created a panel listed by categories of expertise to advise the National Assembly and kept the appointment process in our hands. Although the Minister was allowed to express her preference from a list one and half times the vacancies, we in turn could reject her choices.

We said on 3 November when we first debated that Bill that we supported the compromise because we drove that. Thereafter followed the capitulation of the NCOP, which was approached directly by the Ministry.

The National Assembly could simply have thrown out their amendments, but it seems the ANC loses equilibrium when the symmetry of two opposing sides is lost. With the DA on the one side and the Department of Communications on the other at the first stage of the process, a balance was achieved. But when the NCOP sat with the Department of Communications on one side of the seesaw, the ANC slid down the plank and into their laps.

By that stage the product was constitutionally compromised and the President declined to sign. His letter to the Speaker, published 26 April in the ATCs is, I repeat, as fine an expression of Presidential protection of the Constitution as one could hope to find.

It follows, sir, that a fresh appraisal, free of all the pressures at play during the earlier stages, should not only have been possible after the President expressed himself so strongly. I would say it was called for. And the ANC knows it to be so, because it has issued a caucus statement during lunchtime in which it nervously claims to have concurred with the President. All I can say is up to a point the ANC concurred with the President. And that point was where the Ministry weighed in again because the Assembly Committee came with in reach of an uncompromisingly clear appointment provision two weeks ago.

However, this evaporated at the final meeting with the Department of Communications and the hon the Deputy Minister, very visibly in attendance to augment the influence of the director-general who late last week was openly advising the ANC MPs, much as the former director-general, Andile Ngcaba used quite openly to lead the ANC MPs in drafting the Telecommunications Amendment Act of 2001.

The end result before us differs from the original version only in collapsing the panel of experts into the portfolio committee itself. There are persons with the expertise previously agreed to together with the economic qualifications, which the hon Khumalo helped me to introduce. They will be invited to join us for the process leading of that recommendation of one and half times the vacancies to the Minister who must send her preferences back to the National Assembly. The National Assembly can again reject and return and again retains the power of selecting the final councillors for formal appointment by the Minister, no longer the President.

Then, why will we oppose it? Because this final version should have constituted no compromise - the President made it possible to legislate clearly. It should have constituted no compromise but the impartial exercise of our best judgement as legislatures. This is particularly so when it was visibly the Ministry and the Department of Communications calling the shots that triggered yet another compromise. I fear that this may show that the majority might be prone to pressure during the appointment and removal procedures also.

This does not in and of itself make the Bill unconstitutional. The courts have said in Van Rooyen versus the State that ``the possibility of abuse has no bearing on the constitutionality of the law concerned.’’ But it is not the Bill it could and should have been, especially given the fact that the Minister has a conflict of interest when her public interest duties clash with her duty to maximise the assets of the state - representing between 38% and 100% of a number of dominant licences.

Let me conclude by saying that the performance management provision is of particular interest now that we have identified the need for Parliament to look after all of the Chapter Nines, all of which appear to have either capacity or administrative problems. We have acknowledged from the start that there are capacity problems at Icasa. We have placed on record that the capacity problem commenced when the ANC began to take majority decisions on appointment in the committee.

The Icasa Bill now requires a performance management system. It does have safeguards built in. But the question is: Will the sector appear before the regulators with the sense that they are as powerful and independent as any court or tribunal? That’s the question the hon Paul Swart kept asking you. What is the situation with perceived independence? That too is a constitutional question. It should perhaps have been conclusively answered.

I would have preferred a mechanism created by all of the National Assembly for all of the Chapter Nines. It is a little problematic that the Icasa Council has now had to sign with the Minister. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chairperson, I note that out of the 40-odd members currently present in the House, the DA has only 6 members. Can the hon Mike Ellis maybe explain where the others are?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): I would request him to engage the hon Chief Whip after the sitting.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, may I say to the hon Chief Whip … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon Ellis, please take your seat. I will request you to engage the hon Chief Whip after the sitting.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, are you absolutely saying that I can’t reply?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): No, you can’t. Thank you, Mr Ellis.

Ms S C VOS: Chairperson, the IFP will not fully support this Bill for precisely the reasons the President of the Republic referred certain clauses back to the committee for redrafting, and why we are debating this Bill yet again today. These clauses relate to the constitutionally mandated independence of Icasa and its councillors and the powers of the Minister. The IFP will not support the dilution of this independence, and we believe it is now time that a Constitutional Court is given the opportunity to pronounce on the issue in terms of section 192 of the Constitution.

This is not to say that the amendments before us now are unconstitutional. They sail close to the wind in ensuring that the Minister gains the powers she has wanted all along over Icasa regarding the appointment, removal and performance evaluation of councillors. And now the role of the National Assembly has been re-inserted – where it was previously removed - to give respectability to her obvious power grab and intention to exert an iron grip over Icasa and its councillors.

We agree, of course, that Icasa and its councillors must be accountable and that they must perform with the levels of expertise expected of them, but not in the manner now demanded by the Minister. It has long been clear that government wishes to erode the independence the Constitution affords to Icasa. As a matter of principle and of conscience, the IFP will continue to oppose this. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Chairperson, the Electronic Communications Act and the Icasa Amendment Bill are the two most important pieces of legislation that seek to transform the ICT landscape in the country.

It is vitally necessary, therefore, that we address the constitutionality concerns expressed by the President in the Icasa Amendment Bill so that we are able to make this law come into effect. This will enable a date for us to determine the Electronic Communcations Act, which will in turn catalyse the developments we wish to see in the ICT sector without any further delays.

The constitutional reservations expressed about the earlier draft of the Bill centred primarily around the role of the Minister in respect of the appointment and dismissal processes of Icasa councillors and the performance management of the council.

The view was expressed that the appointment of councillors by the Minister in the manner prescribed in the previous draft of the Bill has a serious and real potential, that it will in fact impact negatively on the impartiality and independence of the council, in contrast to the requirements of section 192 of the Constitution.

In the light of these statements, reservations were expressed by the President about the constitutionality, as you heard, of clauses 7,9 and 11 of the Bill. In the main concerns were expressed about these provisions, in that they gave the Minister absolute power to appoint councillors from a short list. No provision was made for the National Assembly to disapprove the Minister’s recommendations, and Parliament’s role was reduced to merely appointing and serving on the selection panel, unlike in the principal Act, in which Parliament was central to the appointment and dismissal of councillors.

In that previous proposed amendment it was the Minister who was central to these processes. In giving consideration to the views expressed by the President on these matters, the present version of the Bill before us, duly modified, restores the role of Parliament as envisaged in the principal Act.

In the Bill before us it is the National Assembly, acting through the Portfolio Committee on Communications, and no longer an independent panel, that will be responsible for the selection of the councillors and that will produce a shortlist according to principles of public participation, transparency and openness.

This selection process, in the Bill before us, is further strengthened by the portfolio committee having the right to call on experts to assist it in the selection process, should they see the need to do so.

It is from this list that the Minister is able to recommend – and let me underline again – the Minister is able to recommend back to the National Assembly which of those councillors on the short list are to be appointed. Provision is made for the National Assembly to disapprove, and the councillors are only appointed when the National Assembly has approved the list of recommended councillors.

This, we contend, effectively removes any arbitrary power that may have been – I repeat, may have been - prescribed to the Minister in the previous formulation, and it subjects the Minister’s recommendations to a veto power, which is now held by the National Assembly.

Now the establishment of a performance management system is indeed a new element in the Bill. Provision is made for this to be developed by the Minister in consultation with the National Assembly. And similarly so, a councillor may only be removed from office on a finding by the National Assembly and on adoption by the National Assembly of a resolution calling for that councillor’s removal from office.

We are satisfied that the Bill before us, in its modified form, addresses completely the reservations expressed by the President. In particular it has given serious attention to safeguarding the role of Parliament in relation to ensuring the independence of the council, as envisaged in section 192 of the Constitution and with absolute due regard to the provisions in respect of chapter 9 institutions, as in fact envisaged by our Constitution.

We must, however, reiterate that there is legal significance to the fact that the broadcasting authority, Icasa in this case, as envisaged in chapter 9, is not listed in the set of designate-institutions as it is listed in that section of the Constitution where these institutions that promote constitutional democracy are listed.

We believe that there is legal significance to the fact that Icasa is not amongst those institutions listed. We are, therefore, of the view that Icasa does not enjoy the same status as the other chapter 9 institutions. We are of the view that the appointment of councillors is not necessarily dictated by the Constitution …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon Deputy Minister, could you take your seat, please. Hon Dene Smuts.

Ms M SMUTS: Chairperson, would the hon Deputy Minister be prepared to take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon Deputy Minister, do you want to take a question?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: [Inaudible.] The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): The Deputy Minister will take a question.

Ms M SMUTS: Thank you, sir. Through you, Chairperson, to the Deputy Minister: He has just asserted that there is legal significance in the fact that a broadcast regulator, as it is currently described, is not listed in section 181. Does he not concur with the hon the President, who said in his letter to the Speaker, published in the ATC of 26 April, 2006, in the very next sentence, that there is equally legal significance in the fact that the regulator appears in chapter 9? Does he, therefore, go against the view of the President?

And the President goes on, in the paragraph thereafter, to ask … Have you forgotten? Or do we not remember, Madam Speaker? Let me address this: Why is it in chapter 9? There is a reason why the regulator is in chapter 9, and the President feels quite strongly about it. Is the hon Deputy Minister taking a contrary view?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Hon Chairman and hon member, the Deputy Minister does not take a view different from the President’s. If you read the President’s letter carefully, you will read that he also points to the fact that there has to be a legal significance in the fact that Icasa is not cited as part of the institutions that are listed.

That’s what he says in the letter. And we, therefore, take the view that if it had originally been intended that the level of independence of Icasa ought to be the same as that of the Independent Electoral Commission, then there is no reason why Icasa should not have been listed as part of those institutions.

So all we say is that we have to find the proper interpretation as to why Icasa is not listed there. And if it is not listed there, it must mean that there is some significance for the legislature to have to take it out of that set of institutions and put it somewhere else under chapter 9.

The significance of it being listed in chapter 9 is that it is considered to be one of the institutions that promote constitutional democracy. But we draw the inference that because it is not listed in the list of organisations, it, therefore, does not mean that Icasa must have the same level of independence as those listed institutions.

Hon members, we are of the view, therefore, that Icasa does not enjoy the same status as the other chapter 9 institutions, that the appointment of councillors is, therefore, not necessarily dictated by the Constitution, and that the authority, as envisaged in chapter 9, does, in the current formulation of the Bill, enjoy the status and level of independence as envisaged in that part of the Constitution.

We are, therefore, of the view that the Bill, as it is presently formulated, addresses the concerns expressed by the President and will indeed pass constitutional muster. I thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mrs L E YENGENI: Mhlalingaphambili obekekileyo, malungu eNdlu yoWiso- mthetho, zihlobo nezalamane, maqabane, molweni. [Hon Chairperson, members of the National Assembly, friends, relatives and comrades, I greet you.]

The ANC is happy to support this amendment precisely because it asserts the principle and is premised on the primacy of the role of Parliament, particularly the National Assembly, in the selection, appointment and monitoring of Icasa councillors.

This is, without doubt, a victory for Parliament in that this amendment ensures that public participation, transparency and openness are adhered to, and it creates a harmonious balance between the powers and functions of the legislature and the executive in the process of appointment of Icasa councillors.

The ANC embraces this amendment also because it sets a good precedent and example for other institutions and departments to follow. Secondly, Icasa, like all other chapter 9 institutions, contributes in unique and various ways to supporting and entrenching our young democracy. The question is: What qualifies Icasa’s constitutional independence and status? The answer to that question will lead to more political discussion.

In recognition of the concerns expressed by the President in his letter to the Speaker of the National Assembly, the role of Parliament in selecting and appointing Icasa councillors has been reinstated. The National Assembly will select suitable candidates according to the principles prescribed in the principal Act, including the publication of a shortlist of candidates.

The National Assembly may invite technical experts to assist in the evaluation process. After the selection of candidates the National Assembly will give to the Minister at least one and a half times the number of councillors to be appointed. The Minister will select her or his preferred candidates from the list, and then recommend them to the National Assembly. If the National Assembly is not satisfied with the persons recommended, then the National Assembly might request the Minister to review her or his recommendations. If the National Assembly approves the recommendations, then the Minister will appoint the chairperson.

Xa umhlalingaphambili wooceba be-Icasa engazi kubakho, kufuneka anyule oza kumbambela. Oko kuya kuba semthethweni xa kubhalwe phantsi. Ukuba akashiyanga nto ebhaliweyo, ooceba be-Icasa baya kuzinyulela usihlalo wethutyana. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.) [In a case where the chairperson of councillors of Icasa is not present, an acting chairperson must be elected. This appointment will be legal only if there is a written note in this regard. If such a document is not obtainable, therefore, the councillors will elect an acting chairperson.]

Parliament recognises the challenges faced by Icasa, and as a result their budget has been increased, as well as the number of councillors from seven to nine, of which one is the chair.

This amendment is not necessarily brought about for this specific Minister of Communications, as opposition parties feel. It is an amendment to properly regulate the appointment of Icasa councillors for now and in the future.

It is our assertion in the ANC that giving the Minister one and a half times the number of councillors required will in no way compromise the independence of Icasa or give too much or undue powers to the Minister, precisely because the process starts and ends with the National Assembly. The ANC supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Mr V C GORE: Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister, the Icasa Amendment Bill has been a huge success for the development of democracy in South Africa and at the same time it has been a major setback or attack on our young democracy. The growing maturity of our democracy was highlighted by the fact that President Mbeki had the courage and conviction to send the Bill back to Parliament with serious reservations about the constitutionality of the legislation. For this, our President needs to be congratulated and supported.

Unfortunately, the ANC was unable to rise to the challenge and bulldozed its own views through, despite the serious concerns around the conflict of interest between the Minister acting both as a referee and as a player, as well as the independence of the regulator from the executive. The consequence of this is that the new Amendment Bill is still questionable in terms of its constitutionality and will have serious repercussions on the industry as a whole.

If the President decides that he still has reservations, and the ID sincerely hopes that he does, the process of this Bill and the associated revisioning of the entire telecommunications broadcasting industry, through the Electronic Communications Act, will be put on hold for an unacceptable period of time. It is, therefore, questionable whether the ICT sector will be able to contribute meaningfully and realise its full potential in achieving the goals of the Asgisa programme.

The ID, unfortunately and regrettably, will not be able to support this Bill. [Applause.] Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, the ACDP cannot support any attempts to undermine the independence of our chapter 9 institutions. The recommendation that the Minister of Communications should have the power to appoint, remove and administer performance management systems of Icasa councillors is unacceptable.

The Parliament of South Africa is the principal institution for oversight and accountability. We have a mandate from the citizens of this country to exercise that oversight function with integrity and transparency. Centralisation of power in the Minister takes away this essential aspect of the nature and function of Parliament and the National Assembly.

Tampering with the independence of Icasa will set the precedent for undermining our other chapter 9 institutions. Such actions will have a negative impact on public and civil society’s confidence and will have to be taken into account in instances such as the African Peer Review Mechanism.

The ACPD wishes to emphasise that the appointment and management of Icasa councillors should be conducted in an impartial manner, and in a manner that takes into account the actual needs of the various communities who are served by broadcasting institutions.

Councillors should be individually representative of all the different communities, so that the Icasa council becomes a genuine democratic panel that will speak for those whose voices will not normally be heard. Such an approach would put an end to the thoughtlessness of the undemocratic closing down of Christian radio stations across the country. [Time expired.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, in die media die laaste ruk word daar al hoe meer geskryf en vraagtekens geplaas oor die skeiding tussen die wetgewende en die uitvoerende gesag in Suid-Afrika - tussen die Parlement aan die een kant en die Kabinet aan die ander kant. Dit is tipies van enige stelsel waar ʼn regering te lank regeer dat die wetgewende gesag al hoe meer ingekrul word. In die Nasionale Party dae, en ek was daar in die opposisiekant, het presies dieselfde gebeur, en ek sien die vraagtekens daar en dit is die dilemma van die stelsel as jy hulle nie heeltemal uit mekaar uit hou nie.

Ek is jammer dat, vanweë ’n druk program, ek nie al die komiteesittings kon bywoon nie. In die ou dae, en die ou dae is nou van 1994 tot 1999, was hierdie ʼn baie lekker komitee omdat dit oor komunikasiesake gaan wat baie tegnies is en daar is meestal konsensus gebruik.

Die laaste paar jaar vind ons dat ons konsensus bereik op tegniese punte, dan gaan die ANC-lede huis toe en môre kom hulle terug met totaal nuwe standpunte wat hulle iewers vandaan gekry het. Ek vind dit jammer veral wanneer dit kom by tegniese sake soos hierdie. Dieselfde geld vir hierdie wet.

Die feit van die saak is dat die wet, wat my betref, te veel mag aan die Minister gee, veral waar die staat ’n hoofaandeelhouer is, en die FF Plus sal nie hierdie wysiging kan steun nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr P W A MULDER: Mr Chairperson, recently there have been more and more reports and queries in the media about the separation of the legislative and executive powers in South Africa – between Parliament on the one hand and the Cabinet on the other. This is characteristic of any system where a government has been governing for so long that the legislative power is becoming less and less significant. In the days of the National Party, and there I was on the side of the opposition, exactly the same thing happened, and I saw the queries there and this is the predicament of the system if one does not separate them entirely.

I am sorry that I could not attend all the sittings of the committee because of a hectic schedule. In the olden days, and by the olden days I mean merely from 1994 to 1999, this used to be a very good committee, because it is all about communication issues which are very technical, and most of the time consensus is reached.

In the past few years we have found that we reach consensus on technical issues, then the ANC members go home and tomorrow they come back with totally new viewpoints acquired elsewhere. I find it regrettable particularly when it comes to technical matters like these. The same applies to this Act.

The fact of the matter is that the Act, as far as I am concerned, gives too much power to the Minister, especially in the case where the state is a key stakeholder, and the FF Plus will not be able to support this amendment. [Applause.]]

Ms S RAJBALLY: The communication sector is developing fast and, to secure the convergence and competition in the sector, the MF supports the empowerment of the Independent Communications Authority of SA, Icasa, to manage this sector.

We have no objection to the substitution of the “postal regulator” by the Authority. We find the clarity being given to the duties and functions of both the Authority and the chair of the council as insurance that the sector shall be managed efficiently and effectively. It is good that clarity as to the procedure of appointing the chair and other councillors is spelled out as to speed up such processes.

The consolidation of the related Bills to deal with convergence in the broadcasting, signal distribution and telecommunications sectors are also supported. It is important that the Authority, in holding all this power, is able to conduct inquiries to improve the performance of its functions. The MF supports the Bill.

Mr K M KHUMALO: Modulasetulo, Maloko a Palamente, Matona, ba hlomphehileng, metswalle le Maqabane … [Chairperson, hon Members of Parliament, friends and comrades …]

… allow me to clarify a bit of the confusion that has emanated, especially among the ranks of the opposition. There was an institution called the Independent Broadcasting Authority, which came before, and subsequent to that, the Constitution of South Africa was signed on 10 May 1996.

At that point in time, the evolution of the telecoms industry moved so much that we had to establish a new institution, even before that, called SATRA, SA Telecommunications Regulatory Authority. You had to combine both the Independent Broadcasting Authority and SATRA to create one institution. That institution was then created and is called Icasa, the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.

There is no Icasa in the Constitution precisely for one reason, that Icasa was formed in 2000 and the chapter 9 institutions that have been referred to are in the Constitution that was signed on 10 May 1996. Therefore, to say that it is unconstitutional to say that Icasa is not there is wrong. If you check the Constitution you will see that there is no mention made of Icasa.

Therefore, it is incorrect for members to come and say today if the Minister becomes part of the process of making sure that we have a strong regulatory system of the industry that is incorrect. Members please go out and check the Constitution from the first to the last page. There is not a single word mentioning Icasa.

Some members did not hear what that member said and I think that it’s important for me to respond, because very often people say that. That member must tell you. You suffer from a fallacy of retrospective determinism. [Laughter.] And I must tell you there is no cure for that. The only cure for that is vitamins A and C, and you could never find that anywhere, except in the branches – they are very simple to find. They are black, green and gold in colour, thank you. [Laughter.]

In terms of the issue that we are fighting over here, it is very simple … [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, it sounded to me as if the hon member had some very important advice for us, but he spoke so fast that we couldn’t possibly hear. I wonder if he would repeat that? Could he please repeat that? [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! I think he said something about vitamin something and something. [Laughter.] Please continue.

Mr K M KHUMALO: I said the only cure for the hon member’s illness is vitamins A and C, and you cannot find this in any chemist. You can only find it in the branches, in the community, and the colours are simple to find, they are black, green and gold. So, that is what I said. [Applause.] They must remember that cure; it’s very important. [Laughter.]

The issue of the independence of Icasa, as my members have already said, is quite interlinked with the issue of the Convergence Bill that we are dealing with. You must understand that with the issue of the emerging markets in terms of telecommunications they are also moving forward. You have to bring things together.

The most important things that we had to consider were: Firstly, the initiative to make regulations in that communication services move together with the communication network services; secondly, the issue of coming up with a law that will provide for a radio frequency spectrum; and finally, the issue that relates then to provide for the control of all services that we are providing in terms of how we issue our licences.

These issues - some members might find it very difficult to follow - are quite vital for us to then combine with the Convergence and Icasa Bills as we move forward.

The reason why we need to have the authority itself having to have proper leadership is precisely for the following reasons: If the people of Embuzini in Mpumalanga aren’t able to receive all of the broadcasting channels and Telecoms networks, then there’s a big problem.

If the masses of Morokweng, Ganyesa and Breying are not, for example, able to access telephones, internet services and network services, we are far from closing the digital divide that exists in our society.An interconnection rate should be provided, and all schools should be relayed, either by the department, or, most importantly, by the authority. So, it will be important for us to close the digital divide and provide interconnection rates and the authority must be strengthened in terms of this issue.

Another issue that also needs to be understood is the fact that there is a perception by the DA and other parties that rarely come to the portfolio committee, that the independence of all authorities is covered by a number of institutions: Firstly, Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which in itself deals with the issue of freedom of expression, protection of the Broadcasting Authority and the regulators, and in that issue there’s a report from the World Summit on the Information Society that contains all the elements that deal with the areas of communication and authority; and …

Secondly, in the event that the DA might want to find a legal recourse, there is a commission of the African Union called the African Commission on Human and People’s Rights, which deals with freedom of expression and it also covers … [Interjections.]

No, no! Wait a minute, hon Dene Smuts! This is the attitude that we are dealing with. I don’t know why, as the ANC, we sometimes spend so much time wasting our time on the small opposition parties, while we’ve got a much larger mandate for people to provide leadership, guide and also deliver. They are just making a noise and trying to derail us. We must stick to our course and continue to deliver services, as expected. [Interjections.]

With regard to section 192, and whether it is constitutionally correct or not - as they say - I must say, as I have said earlier, section 192 deals with one simple issue. It is a paragraph that says “ national legislation must establish an independent authority to regulate broadcasting in the public interest and to ensure fairness and diversity of views broadly representing South African society”. There is no mention made of telecoms in that aspect.

Let me tell you what happened. In the Financial Mail … [Interjections.]

Ms M SMUTS: Chairperson, will my friend, the hon Khumalo, take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Do you want to take a question, hon Khumalo?

Mr K M KHUMALO: Chairperson, I can take a question, but I don’t have the liberty of time, and time is money. I am sorry.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Proceed, hon member.

Mr K M KHUMALO: Chairperson, considering the fact that when you are too fast because of time, some members might not even hear. So, there’s not even time to give to hon Dene Smuts. She had all the time to deal with that.

In the Financial Mail of 19 May 2006, on pages 62 and 64, the DA through its spokesperson, Ms Dene Smuts, wrote a long article to say that, because of the Minister’s interference in the process of Icasa, she should resign. If she does not resign, then the President must fire her.

Now, obviously this is a very serious and ambitious project from the DA to consider that because now, quite clearly, they have missed the point and as I’ve explained to you, chapter 9 does not refer to that. Anybody would understand that this type of talk, quite clearly, couldn’t even be considered to be political maturity.

This issue is quite important, so we must deal with it, because it is covered in terms of all the areas that we have dealt with in the communications study group in relation to the inventors of Icasa. But, more importantly, what we must now do, disregarding what they have said, is to check the 2005-06 yearbook issued to us. If you have a look on page 72, it deals with the issue considered to be the challenges and opportunities facing us for a second decade of freedom.

There are only three of them that I want to mention: Firstly, a better performance of the state to unlock the delivery lock jams; secondly, addressing consequences of the social transition improving access to work opportunities in urban and rural areas. Quite clearly, information is power. It is our belief that, if Icasa is strong and is able to achieve and deal with all those universal services of obligation, it should be able to unlock the economy in terms of the players that are there; and, finally, faster growth in Sub-Saharan Africa and improving the regional … [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Chairperson, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank those who have supported this amending Bill for the way in which they supported it.

I would like to respond to one or two of the objections that were raised. There was an objection from the FF Plus on specific issues, but we looked at international experience. I’d like to mention them here. We looked at many countries that are regarded as democratic, which don’t have the kind of threats that are in the minds of many people on my left here.

We looked at countries such as the United States, where commissioners are appointed by the president only, with no involvement from Congress; Canada, where the appointments are made by the Minister through cabinet without parliamentary involvement; Kenia, where the appointments are made by the Minister, and the same enabling legislation is also under that same Minister; Australia, where the appointments are made by the Minister, and the United Kingdom, where appointments are also by the Minister. I think the greatest fear is simply because this is a Minister of the ANC, and that is what the problem is. [Interjections.]

However, as the President pointed out, we had to make sure that in this new democracy this fine balance that the hon Lumka Yengeni was talking about, this harmonious balance that entrenches our democracy, is achieved, and this Bill does do that, and I thank you for pointing that out.

I hope, as we pass this Bill today, we’ll recognise that we have indeed gone through ups and downs which were not fundamental differences, but differences that alerted us to the fact that we should pass the kind of test that would indicate we were indeed building a democracy. I think this Bill does build this democracy, and I thank members for raising the issues that they have, but on many matters we will agree to disagree.

I’d like to take the opportunity to thank the portfolio committee under the previous chairperson, but also, particularly, under the acting chairperson, for making us sit down and work through step by step as to what are the challenges that we have to overcome, especially after the President had made his observation.

I also thank the chairperson Godfrey Oliphant for being able to bring us all together, even if some people will have discordant voices, because the Bill now is constitutional. I’d like to say thank you very much and I hope our vote will indeed indicate that we all support this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, we move that the Bill, as amended, be passed.

Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, Independent Democrats and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Bill, as amended, accordingly passed.

The House adjourned at 18:22. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

   Report and Financial Statements of Mineral Technology (Mintek) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 58-2005].

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) Convention Against Doping in Sport, dated 24 May 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) Convention Against Doping in Sport, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.

Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services on 2006/7 Budget Vote 20 and the 2006/7-2010/11 Strategic Plan of the Department of Correctional Services

                Supplement to Committee Report
   

National Assembly


The Report of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services on
Budget Vote 20 was tabled on 22 May 2006. The report was noted by the
National Assembly on 23 May 2006.


The Committee met on 25 May 2006 and adopted an amendment to a
recommendation under the Facilities programme in the report,


The Committee supports the allocation to the Facilities programme and
welcomes the construction of eight new prisons in the near future. The
Committee must be regularly updated on the progress of the building of
New Generation facilities. At present, due to insufficient information,
the Committee cannot make a decision on whether to support or not to
support the construction of the new prisons using the Public Finance
Model (PFM).


The Committee requires a full written report and verbal briefing, before
12 June 2006, by the DCS highlighting the comparative cost implications,
in both the short and long term, for building using conventional
processes, the PFM or the PPP routes. The Committee supports the
decision by the DCS to review the contracts of the existing public-
private prisons and believes that these prisons may be better utilised
for juvenile and minimum offenders.