THURSDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2006 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

                                ____

The House met at 14:03.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

REFERRAL OF GOVERNMENT IMMOVABLE ASSET MANAGEMENT BILL BACK TO COMMITTEE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a very long motion. In order to save time, I won’t read it. Members have it in front of them.

I move without notice the motion in the name of the Chief Whip:

That the House refers the Government Immovable Asset Management Bill back to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works for further consideration.

Agreed to.

ESTABLISHMENT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE REVIEW OF STATE INSTITUTIONS
SUPPORTING CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam, I now move the long one for acceptance by the House:

That the House establishes an Ad Hoc Committee on the Review of State Institutions Supporting Constitutional Democracy and the Public Service Commission –

(1) the Committee to consist of 10 members as follows: ANC 5; DA 2; IFP 1; and other parties 2;

(2) the Committee to review State Institutions Supporting Constitutional Democracy as listed in Chapter 9 of the Constitution as well as the Public Service Commission as established in Chapter 10 of the Constitution, for the purpose of –

    (a)      assessing whether the current and intended constitutional
         and legal mandates of these institutions are suitable for the
         South African environment; whether the consumption of
         resources by them is justified in relation to their outputs
         and contribution to democracy; and whether a rationalisation
         of function, role or organisation is desirable or will
         diminish the focus on important areas;


    (b)      reviewing the appropriateness of the appointment and
         employment arrangements for commissions and their secretariats
         with a view to enhanced consistency, coherence, accountability
         and affordability;


    (c)      reviewing institutional governance arrangements in order
         to develop a model of internal accountability and efficiency;


    (d)      improving the co-ordination of work between the
         institutions covered in this review, as well as improving co-
         ordination and co-operation with government and civil society;
    (e)      recognising the need for a more structured oversight role
         by Parliament in the context of their independence; and


    (f)      reviewing the funding models of the institutions,
         including funding derived from transfers and licences and
         other fees, with a view to improving accountability,
         independence and efficiency;

(3) the Committee to conduct its review also with reference to other organs of state of a similar nature whose work is closely related to the work of institutions covered in this review;

(4) the Committee may exercise those powers in Rule 138 that may assist it in carrying out its task; and

(5) the Committee to report by not later than 30 June 2007.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF SPECIAL REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE (JSCI) - REPORTS OF INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF INTELLIGENCE

Dr S C CWELE: Madam Speaker, hon members, Ministers, let me also recognise our Inspector-General, Mr Ngcakani. On 21 August, the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence tabled a special report on the Inspector- General’s report emanating from his investigation of the alleged abuse of power by National Intelligence Agency officials; the origins and authenticity of allegedly intercepted e-mails introduced into Project Avani, an authorised national stability assessment project conducted by the National Intelligence Agency; and an evaluation and examination of intelligence that informed this project. The report is available on Parliament’s website, and we hope that hon members and the public are familiar with the contents of that report.

The investigation was unprecedented in the recent history of our intelligence services. We commend the Inspector-General for the diligent work done in this complex investigation.

What we aim to achieve in this debate is firstly, to clarify the roles played by different structures involved in the supervision, direction and oversight of intelligence. Secondly, it aims to clarify or emphasise certain aspects of the report. We also hope to dispel the mischievous notions expressed by the media that this report was driven by divisions either within the ruling party, or between Parliament and executive.

As the committee, and from this side of the House, we see this as a healthy debate, because all these structures are approaching intelligence from different angles. That is what is strengthening our democracy. That is what will strengthen our oversight over intelligence services. We also aim to reassure our nation that the dark cloud has passed, and our intelligence community is functioning.

Since 1994, we as South Africans have defined our common set of values and aspirations as a nation. We are united in striving for a democratic state based on the will of the people; a united nation free of racial prejudice and gender discrimination; a nation based on equality where each individual’s talent is nurtured to the maximum, and a caring and developmental state where citizens lead positive lives, free of fear and free of want. We strive for a nation where we will be living under conditions of peace, stability and economic progress, a prosperous Africa, and a peaceful world of free, sovereign yet equal nations united in a developmental agenda, and assisting the poor and the weak.

Indeed, we can sum it up as our common goal of searching for a better life for all. This is what we regard in South Africa and broadly as our national interest. Obviously, each country will have its own national interest and sometimes these may compete with our own. The threats to our national interest may come from rogue elements within our society or from these competing international interests. The central role of intelligence is to gather and analyse secret information about the threats to our national interest and forewarn us to plan for, avoid or minimise such threats. They are the guards of our common values and national aspirations.

Because intelligence operates in conditions of secrecy, we have put measures in place to guard the guards in order to prevent the abuse of power under the veil of secrecy. We have the Minister who is responsible for supervision and direction of intelligence. We have the Auditor-General who looks at the financial prudence of intelligence. We have the judge responsible for authorisation of interceptions; the Inspector-General who investigates complaints and reviews the activities of the services, and lastly, we have the parliamentary committee, the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, responsible for general oversight, and to which these other structures account. All these structures are what we can sum up as ``the guardians of the guards’’.

From the onset let me clarify that the JSCI reviewed the report of the Inspector-General. We did not conduct a new or parallel investigation. We have come out of this with certain lessons and critical matters for the future of our stability.

Firstly, the office of the Inspector-General is a relatively new institution in our intelligence community. We are jealously guarding and preserving its integrity. In terms of our legislation and international best practice, this institution must be seen to be functioning independently and without fear or prejudice. It must function in terms of known rules, regulations and laws. In this respect, it will increasingly be able to gain the confidence of both the services and the public. We accept that the absence of regulations does not necessarily negate or compromise the process followed by the Inspector-General in relation to the investigation. The Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence calls for the speedy implementation and strengthening of regulations for the functioning of the Inspector-General. We will be awaiting progress in this respect in the next quarter.

Secondly, the origin of the e-mails remains unresolved. The Inspector- General did not establish the source or authors of these e-mails and chat sessions, irrespective of them being authentic or not. They may either be the work of rogue elements within our society, or more importantly, the product of those who are opposed to our national or our international agenda, particularly the foreign intelligence services. It is part of the counter-intelligence mandate of the National Intelligence Agency to investigate this and to ensure the integrity of our state.

Thirdly, the NIA has adequate regulations and internal controls to prevent abuse. However, some of these regulations may need to be reviewed and strengthened. The main challenge seems to be the implementation and upholding of these controls. We call upon the management of the services, particularly NIA, to make it part of their key performance indicators that these controls are followed by all members of the intelligence services.

Fourthly, I would like to comment on the attempts to use the National Communications Centre for intercepting the communications of South Africans. While we have been assured as a committee that this facility is configured and directed at bulk international communication traffic, the JSCI would like to stress that any surveillance of our citizens must only be done after permission from a judge responsible for issuing such directions is granted. Any attempt to short-circuit the process is a serious and punishable offence.

In conclusion, we call upon the services and the executive to take the recommendations in our report seriously, and to report on the progress thereof. We call on all stakeholders in the intelligence community to utilise the internal processes to resolve disputes, and only to utilise courts or public processes as a last resort, as these processes may have the potential of compromising our national security.

The dark cloud has come and passed. We as a committee will criticise where wrong is done, and we will give credit where it is due. Overall, we are proud of and recognise the good work done by most of the intelligence officers of utilising their craft as a critical instrument of democracy in guarding our national values and aspirations.

The JSCI is a statutory committee with the necessary powers to do follow- ups on our recommendations. In this respect, I move that the House notes the special report of the JSCI. Thank you. [Applause.]

               WELCOMING OF DELEGATION FROM INDONESIA

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon members, just before we proceed, join me in welcoming a delegation of members of parliament from Indonesia, led by the chairperson of the ethics committee. You are welcome to the House. [Applause.]

CONSIDERATION OF SPECIAL REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE (JSCI) – REPORTS OF INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF INTELLIGENCE

                       (Resumption of Debate)

Adv P S SWART: Madam Speaker, 2005 was a dark and unintelligent year for our National Intelligence Agency, which plunged our democracy into its greatest intelligence scandal ever.

It brought us the following: The compromised, unauthorised and unlawful surveillance of businessman and ANC leader, Saki Macozoma; the unauthorised surveillance of a well-known journalist found to be unprocedural by the Inspector-General of Intelligence; the again unprocedural, shocking attempt at surveillance of a very senior opposition politician; the outsourcing of the interception of e-mails to a third party, effectively placing them outside oversight controls; payment of that third party out of discretionary funds; the contentious fabrication of a large number of e- mails, indicating two separate groups of conspirators against government, and this then used to illegally enter telephone numbers into the target base of the National Communications Centre, targeting inter alia, the parliamentary numbers of various senior politicians, both in the ANC and the opposition for interception purposes.

All this was done under the auspices of the so-called Project Avani, conceived by the then Director-General of NIA, an operation run in a very clandestine manner on an extreme need-to-know basis, even pertaining to very senior NIA officials.

Let me quote from the executive summary of the Inspector-General of Intelligence on this:

Given the selective Project Avani clientele of the Director-General and the potential for crossing the line between intelligence collection in the interest of national security and intelligence collection and interest camouflaged as counter-revolutionary threats, or for that matter, threats against particular political interests, the risks of undermining constitutionally protected political freedoms and of descending into the abyss of abuse of state resources and compromise of intelligence mandate integrity with a project of this nature calls into question the activity of political intelligence gathering that underpinned Project Avani.

That is exactly what happened, what we had warned about long before this mess even started. Not only have the basic human rights and privacy of certain individuals and their rights to political freedom been invaded, but the integrity of our intelligence service and our country as a whole has been compromised. These actions brought shame on our country and everything that our Constitution stands for. It must be prevented from ever happening again.

Now, this is the report we are discussing today. At the outset, let me be very clear about one thing. The JSCI did not re-investigate the matter. We, in terms of our oversight mandate, interacted over a lengthy period with the Inspector-General and various other parties in considering the IG’s three reports and their annexures.

We did not set out or try to prove or disprove allegations that led to the IG’s findings and recommendations. That is for the courts and other disciplinary mechanisms to decide. As several matters dealt with in these reports are still under investigation and/or sub judice, we refrain from pronouncing on these at this time. It may very well mean that, at the appropriate time, we will table another report.

What we did was to consider in particular the procedures followed by the IG with reference to his mandate and oversight role, with specific reference to the utmost importance of his independence, both factual and perceived, it being vital to the success of his office.

This investigation was the first of its nature undertaken by the IG, and we found the lack of regulations to guide him in this regard to have been problematic. This lacuna must be rectified immediately.

A hard, critical look at procedures followed is just that - to recommend guidelines for future actions, and should never be interpreted as attacking the validity of his findings and/or recommendations.

I shall now look at some of our recommendations on this report. Firstly, the JSCI found the declassification of parts of the IG’s final report problematic. Strict adherence to the regulations for the classification and declassification of such documents should be followed at all times.

Secondly, there are serious problems with the financial controls over the management of the Discretionary Fund of the DG of NIA. The manner in which all discretionary funds are managed must be reviewed and proper control measures instituted. The JSCI requests a report from the new Director- General of NIA within three months.

With reference to pending disciplinary matters against wrongdoers, all must be dealt with in a thorough and inclusive manner. We require a report on this from the DG, also within three months.

As the chairperson said, there are still some unclear issues surrounding the hoax e-mails, in particular regarding the details of their origins. This investigation should continue, and the progress report given to the JSCI by the DG within three months.

The instructions by the Minister regarding the control of intelligence projects, which he announced late last year, must be in the form of specific written policy directives or regulations.

It is very important that we stress the absolute adherence to the regulations for authorising of telephone interceptions. Never again must the privacy of any individual in this country be invaded in this or any other manner.

Various other recommendations, in particular regarding procedures and oversight, may well be addressed by what comes from the task team, which the Minister of Intelligence put in place late last year, and we will follow progress in this regard closely. Lastly, we took cognisance of the negative impact of these matters on the morale of the services, particularly within the NIA. We encourage all the members to remain committed to our national security, and recommend that senior management in NIA take urgent steps to boost the morale. The JSCI requests a progress report within six months.

If any good can come from this scandal, it must surely be the emphasis on the dire need for clear and proper directives to guide all actions undertaken by our intelligence services. This must be coupled with the absolute necessity of continuous oversight and democratic transparency that the JSCI is committed to.

I want to thank the members of the JSCI and the Minister for the commitment to this that they have shown thus far. Lastly, allow me to thank the IG and his task team for work done under very difficult circumstances, with restraints as mentioned. We are happy with what they are doing. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M J BHENGU: Madam Deputy Speaker, this debate takes place at a time when there are some prosecutions going on, in respect of some National Intelligence Agency senior officials. That on its own indicates the seriousness of this report, which is in front of hon members.

I must join my previous colleagues in commending the Inspector-General on producing such a comprehensive report. Lengthy as it was, it had a lot of substance, and we were able, as the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, to actually go through it chapter-by-chapter, paragraph-by- paragraph and line-by-line to get to the bottom of the matter.

It was interesting that at one stage we realised that …

… ngesiZulu bathi uzama ukubamba utalagu … [… in isiZulu they say you are trying to grasp the mirage …]

… you cannot actually get to grips with the matter. But that is the nature of the whole situation.

Therefore, the report in front of hon members is actually a response from the JSCI, a report that we developed independently, and we were not influenced by any newspaper reports. We believe that it is our duty in doing our oversight role to actually make it a point that we do that work quite thoroughly, without being influenced by any party. We hope that it is a report that will address what Dr Cwele said just now – that the dark cloud seems to have gone. Let’s hope it has.

I must say that we are hopeful that the Minister is doing everything in his power right now to come up with some measures in terms of addressing the concerns and frustrations expressed in both the IG’s report and in the JSCI report. It is important that those concerns are addressed as soon as possible.

The most important thing of all is the development of the national security doctrine, which has to be adhered to by most managers and everybody else in the intelligence community. In that sense, when that document is developed, it has to be underpinned by national unity, because otherwise it won’t see the light of day. Therefore, I hope that, as everybody indicated, the dark cloud came, but now it has gone. We hope that this House and the nation at large will accept that and will be assured that what has happened has now subsided. The storm has passed. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we have with us today the SA Navy cadets based in Simons Town, who are visiting our institution. Welcome to Parliament. [Applause.]

Ms H C MGABADELI: Deputy Speaker, hon members and members from the intelligence community, I’m happy to debate today when there are young people of the Navy present. It’s our luck.

This debate comes at a time when most people of our motherland, the region and internationally have been reading in the newspapers so many articles about the subject. What was lacking in those stories was that they were not giving a holistic picture. Even we ourselves today cannot claim to be giving a final, complete picture as yet, because the process continues in court as we are debating.

Our country, our motherland, the Republic of South Africa is fortunate to have attained her freedom in 1990 through hard work and sacrifice, for those who have forgotten, and her first democratically elected government in 1994. This democratically elected government came with a lot of changes, including transparency and all kinds of human rights; hence the Chapter 9 institutions and others.

This democracy came with removing some shadowy structures and brought them to the fore. It came with different powers assigned by the Constitution without each power endlessly standing on its own, but working together according to their mandates towards achieving a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa.

This is how the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, just like other committees, came into being to do oversight on intelligence, and no other things but intelligence. Our chairperson has set out the legislative status of our committee. It is not an ad hoc committee. It is a standing committee.

The fact that it is a standing committee allows it, unlike the media that has been issuing patchwork-like articles that never gave a complete picture, to deal with all the pieces and come out with the big picture, which is not yet complete. There is therefore no harm in each piece coming with its own shape, content, etc, according to its own mandate, responsibility and accountability, among other things.

Because of time limits we will not dwell so much on the minute details, but we are saying this report is now public property, not media property. The public representatives, who are our hon members, need to take the report to their constituencies and continue to educate, re-educate and introduce those who were never introduced to the processes of democracy in action within a holistic approach.

The song that was written by the class of J B Mnyataza, if I’m not mistaken, for those of us who like music, describes the whole scenario of how people can walk together, observe together, but in the end come out with different conclusions. The song goes:

Amadoda ambalwa Anqamula esigangeni Umlimi wabona utshani bodwa Omunye wabona izinkanyezi Inyanga yabona amanzi azimeleyo Yacabanga ngokulapho Kwalandela iqhawe elabona ukuthi umhlaba Ulungele impi emnandi

Kwalandela ngothengisa izwe Owabona izibaya kanye Nezinye izindlu Kanjalo kwakusekhona abanye futhi Abantu ababedlula khona lapho Kodwa bengacabangi lutho

Izinyoni ezihlahleni Zazihlabelela kamnandi Zazingazi okwenzeka Emicabangweni yabantu Abahamba kulelo zwe elihle

What caused those differences when these men have been exposed to the same input?

Isiganga siyasazi sonke. [We all know the culprit.]

It’s a tranquil place with no high-rise buildings, but what caused them to think separately? Was it the tranquillity at that time that brought back their schooling, their thinking, their wishes? What was it? Among other differences it was the orientation, it was the mandate, the accountability, the report-back and other things.

This scenario also reminds us that life does not come to a standstill just because there are these differences caused by other realities. Our chair has said that.

The line of this song that says, “Izinyoni ezihlahleni zazihlabelela kamnandi,” [Birds were singing beautifully in trees.] shows that it’s up to us to create our South Africa to be liveable, even in nature, because if we are not doing that the birds won’t sing. They’ll disappear because there’ll be no trees and nothing will make them come and sing for us, regardless of whatever happens.

What will assist us further to be able to have a better understanding of these differences will be our legislation, their interpretation, their implementation against all odds, the monitoring of our legislation, the evaluation of what has been gained by having such legislation, as well as planning further, including reviewing where and whenever necessary.

I want to share with you the story of unoxhaka [a trap]. Those of you who know unoxhaka know that the farmers don’t use the small unoxhaka that we use when we are setting a trap for mice. They use the big one that is able even to deal with wolves. You know, when you set unoxhaka, it’s not an issue of who unoxhaka caught in the evening. It’s the duty of unoxhaka to catch.

If, by some strange mistake unoxhaka caught the owner of a shop that feeds you - maybe your - neighbour has a butchery and he gives you meat, leftovers and stuff like that - your unoxhaka will do that and it becomes an embarrassment in the morning when you see even this one is the one who is causing chaos in your family and in your yard.

We are therefore appealing to our intelligence community and to everybody who is involved - our Minister, our Inspector-General, our country - not to think that we don’t need to tighten the screws of onoxhaka bethu [our traps]. The fact that you are members of the global village does not mean that you need to melt. I still have something that is uniquely mine that is envied by others. I would want to strengthen my unoxhaka to deal with those things, because this democracy has the right to exist, the right to develop and the right to succeed. We’d like to thank everybody who has been involved in the putting together of everything starting from day one till today. We thank you. [Applause.]

Mr A HARDING: Madam Deputy Speaker, who are we to believe in this strange affair called the e-mail spy saga - the politicians or the spooks?

Want dit is die klassieke geval van die luiperd en die jakkals wat mekaar beskuldig dat die ander een die hoenders opgevreet het. Ons weet dat albei skuldig is, maar dis moeilik om te bewys wie die eintlike vabond is, want geeneen van hulle het bloed aan hulle nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Because it is the classic case of the leopard and the jackal that accused each other of eating the chickens. We know that both were guilty, but it is difficult to prove who the actual rogue is, because no one has blood on them. [Interjections.]]

What seems beyond dispute is that the e-mails formed part of Project Avani, an NIA operation, and the abuse of state resources in this matter is unforgivable. If anything, the so-called e-mail spy saga has highlighted the yawning gap between the groupings among senior figures of the ruling party as they fight for control of the party. Thank you.

Mr I VADI: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a privilege to participate in this debate on the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. The brevity of the committee’s report on the technical nature of its drafting should not obscure the profound issues relating to intelligence that underlies it.

In fact, the report deals with fundamental questions about intelligence as an activity, an organisation and as processed information for political clients. It is about the day-to-day work of our intelligence services and how they go about doing this work. Crucially, it is also about exercising appropriate parliamentary scrutiny over the intelligence services of our country.

The heart of the matter is the abuse of intelligence activity and information by the National Intelligence Agency, and the necessity of expressing parliamentary censure. We must be clear about one more thing; intelligence is an indispensable national resource for the advancement of our national security, the security of our people and their social development.

It is a powerful shield for the protection of our democracy. So, our intelligence services, therefore, are not sinister organs that are alien to our democratic values and ethos. But for them to enjoy the trust of Parliament and the nation at large, we must be satisfied that they operate effectively and efficiently and that they operate within the rule of law and the constitutional framework, that they strike a delicate balance between secrecy and accountability and that they posses credible covert and counter–intelligence capabilities to perform their tasks properly.

Unfortunately, the events of the recent past have cast a shadow of doubt on the integrity and credibility of the National Intelligence Agency. This prompted Minister Kasrils to ask an important question: Who guards the guardians? Are ordinary South African citizens safe from the intrusive and prying eyes and ears of spooks?

South Africa can be proud of itself. It ranks among a handful of countries in the world that has established several mechanisms to enforce the principle of civilian accountability over intelligence.

We have a Minister responsible for investigations into breaches of the law; a parliamentary committee to exercise oversight. So, we do have powerful guards to protect ordinary citizens against any abuse of intelligence.

Unfortunately, since the publication of our report, the print media has played a game that is fraught with danger. By reporting selectively on aspects of our report, it has attempted to set up the committee against the Minister and the Inspector-General. The media reports portray the committee as flexing its muscle against the Minister and asserting its authority over Cabinet.

Some have even suggested that the committee has altogether rejected the Inspector-General’s Report. Nothing can be further from the truth.

The truth is that all three instruments, the Minister, the Inspector- General and the Committee, exercise distinct forms of oversight over our intelligence community. These are not necessarily in conflict with one another, but are actually complementary. All three instruments serve to strengthen our parliamentary democracy. And if there are different points of emphasis, as there is in this instance, it is healthy for our democracy. It shows that there is a sound system of checks and balances in place to defend our national security and the human rights of our people.

I now wish to turn to two specific issues raised in the committee’s report. The Inspector-General had pointed out several instances of either attempted interceptions or actual unlawful interceptions of private, telephonic communications of politicians, journalists and others. It is evident that intelligence officers did not adhere to regulations in this regard.

The committee is clear that any intelligence service worthy of being called a service should have the right to intercept private communications of individuals if the interest of national security so demands. But in our democracy this is not an unrestricted right. Interception of telecommunications is governed strictly by judicial approval.

It requires a formal application and motivation to a Judge, and explicit permission for that interception. This is a vital requirement for lawful conduct and it remains a key distinguishing feature between a constitutional democracy and a dictatorship. It is a critical barrier to protect the rights and civil liberties of ordinary citizens.

The committee recommends that the National Intelligence Agency reaffirms the established policy on lawful interceptions among its personnel. It should further review the internal procedures by which its personnel are instructed to carry out the actual tasks of bargaining interceptions. A culture of respecting the rule of law must be cultivated within the intelligence community, and members must be empowered to disobey any instruction that is manifestly unlawful.

Secondly, the physical surveillance of individuals and their properties by the intelligence community is permissible. But it must be understood that any surveillance has an impact on the human rights and civil liberties of citizens. Therefore, every surveillance operation must be properly and thoroughly planned. It must be duly approved in terms of existing regulations.

What cannot be accepted is shoddy planning, particularly for sensitive surveillance operations and the continuation of an operation long after it has been exposed. Such an intelligence failure brings untold embarrassment to our government. And it serves to undermine public confidence in our intelligence services as well as in our democracy.

The committee is of the view that the existing regulations are adequate in guiding surveillance operations and do not require revision. However, it does call for strict adherence to the regulations and proper planning and authorisation for all surveillance work. It also requires a report within three months from the Director-General of the National Intelligence Agency on further disciplinary measures being instituted against personnel who were involved in the botched surveillance operation against Saki Macozoma.

Parliament must insist on the rule of law and respect for administrative procedures by our intelligence community. Not to do so would mean that we would be closer to a dictatorship than a constitutional democracy. Thank you.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Adjunkspeaker, vroeër in die jaar tydens die begrotingspos van die agb Minister, het ek spesifiek gepraat oor die aangeleentheid van afluistering van die publiek. Die agb Minister het hier van die podium af die versekering gegee dat die publiek nie bekommerd hoef te wees nie.

Hier sit ons met ’n prima facie-bewys vandag in die Parlement dat amptenare net eenvoudig nie die regterlike toestemming verkry het nie, die wet verbreek het en lede van die publiek net eenvoudig afgeluister het. Volgens hierdie verslag is dit duidelik dat enige persoon in Suid-Afrika vandag afgeluister word, sonder toestemming.

Ek wil vir die agb Minister vra: wat het gekom van die versekering wat hy gegee het? Ek wil hom vra om op te tree. Die eerste stap wat hy behoort te doen, is om sigbaar te wys dat hy gaan optree deur hierdie amptenare net eenvoudig te ontslaan.

Ek hoop dat die persone wat afgeluister is, hierdie prima facie-bewyse sal gebruik en siviele eise sal instel teen die agb Minister. Aan die einde van die dag is dit die belastingbetalers wat betaal. Dit het tyd geword dat die agb Minister persoonlik moet betaal. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Deputy Speaker, earlier this year during the budget vote of the hon Minister I specifically spoke about this matter of eavesdropping on the public. The hon Minister gave the assurance from the podium that the public should not be worried.

Here today in Parliament we sit with prima facie proof that officials simply just did not get the judicial approval, violated the law and just eavesdropped on members of the public. According to this report it is clear that today one can eavesdrop on any person in South Africa, without permission.

I want to ask the hon Minister: what happened to the assurance that was given? I want to ask him to act. The first step he needs to take is to demonstrate visibly that he is joint act by simply discharging those officials.

I hope that those people who were eavesdropped on will use this prima facie proof and instigate civil claims against the hon Minister. At the end of the day it is the taxpayers that are paying. It is time that the hon Minister personally paid. [Time expired.]]

Ms M P MENTOR: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is such a good thing to be a South African, because in the true spirit of South Africa we are able to sit here today, even under a wrong perception of the media, and differ with the executive – like they think we do - in terms of the findings of the inspector-general’s report.

The members of the committee have already thanked the Inspector-General. I take this opportunity to thank the Minister, the executive and all South Africans for embedding in our Constitution the possibility that we can do our work as the executive, as the oversight authority, as Parliament and as the intelligence community without fear, favour or prejudice; and that, where necessary, we will amicably differ where we should differ.

According to our Constitution, intelligence agencies, as well as law enforcement agencies, together with the executive and Parliament, have a responsibility of ensuring national security. My role today is to unpack this idea of national security and the national interest and try to define what it is and what it is all about.

National security entails securing the well-being of the state, its integrity and its people. The integrity of our state, in particular, depends on how the executive, Parliament and the oversight bodies as well as intelligence agencies do their work and stick to constitutional principles and legal activities. National security is further defined by what happens across and within the borders of a country to the people and their well-being as well as what happens to the resources and wealth and how these are distributed amongst the people.

The group of nations that any country or our country chooses to relate or not relate to and the content of this relationship with other nations also inform what will become our country’s or any other nation’s national interest. When we define national security we must therefore use the wellbeing of our people and our republic as a guide post and not necessarily the threats of terror and war as it is the case with other nations.

Our people therefore must form the cornerstone of what we mean when we refer to national security. How the executive and Parliament as well as intelligence services do their work should be informed first and foremost by the interests of our people and our nation and its wellbeing. Our people do not want to hear anymore about the abuse of power of state, whether it be by the executive or by Parliament or by oversight bodies or by officers in the intelligence community. It is not tolerated and it is not wanted. Our people only yearn to live in peace and prosperity with other nations in a way that improves their quality of life and the quality of life of citizens of the world.

We have decided as the nation therefore that our interests will be linked to the interests of the poor of the world. We therefore today challenge world power in a manner in which nobody has ever done before. We challenge the unipolar nature of the world we live in today that refuses to subject itself to multilateralism. As South Africa, together with our friends, we demand a new world order and a new set of power relations. In this way, we unsettle the rich and the powerful nations of the world.

As we do this, we must make sure that our state is intact and has integrity and credibility. We must make sure that in front of us and behind us, we have intelligence and counter-intelligence that is sound and strong. We must be alert to the fact that we are becoming the envy of many nations and that they will set their forces amongst us to influence our course and direction. We have become a force to be reckoned with in all matters of world affairs, and we are therefore targeted by those who like us and those who do not.

Therefore we cannot afford to falter and open our people, our country and its resources, both human and capital, to exploitation and undue influence by other nations, especially those who do not have a common interest with us. So let us say once more to our people and to our intelligence forces today that we, as Parliament and as the executive, respect the Constitution and the rule of law; and that we will uphold this at all times. We must say that we remain truthful to the oath of allegiance that we have taken concerning the Republic, our people and the Constitution. We must refuse to be open to infiltration by other forces of a foreign nature. We must refuse to allow sinister political forces, with their invisible hands, to manipulate the course of our history and our country.

Because, as a nation, we have progressed in leaps and bounds in rebuilding our economy and redeveloping our county, we must also expect that we will be infiltrated and will be influenced. Regarding these matters, we say we will be open and alive to the possibility that in the endeavours to change the world and reorder it and make South Africa and the world a better place to live in, there is a possibility that our forces that used to operate under the cloak of darkness would become vulnerable to use and abuse, and to the abuse of power.

However, this does not give us, as the executive or as Parliament itself, the right to avoid the Constitution and the rule of law. We remain committed to civilian intelligence oversight. We will instil in our intelligence officers a culture of constitutionalism and patriotism only and not a culture of fear of those who occupy superior or commanding positions. Lastly, we want our people to trust that, as Parliament and as the executive, together with the intelligence and law-enforcement agencies, we are committed to their well-being. We have learned serious lessons from this saga and will not forget them. We emerge out of this saga as a stronger and better nation. We will adhere to the important lessons that we have pinpointed in this report and we will follow them through as the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. I thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR INTELLIGENCE: Thank you, Chairperson and hon members, as the hon speakers have been pointing out here, the events of the past year have raised many questions, not only for intelligence services but for the oversight structures. The clouds were rather dark and I do agree that they have passed over. We must make sure that it remains the case.

Everybody, except one, has raised pertinent points. The committee has correctly noted in its report tabled before this House that the Inspector- General’s investigation was –

… unprecedented in the history of South Africa’s intelligence and that the inspector-general concluded a complex investigation in a diligent manner.

There have been many meetings between him, the committee and I. I commend the committee for its commitment and for its hard work in preparing this report.

The blatant disregard by the former director-general and certain NIA members for the Constitution and rights of those violated by their conduct needs to be strongly condemned. The finding by the Inspector-General that the former director-general deliberately misled and lied to both the Minister and the Inspector-General about the nature of the surveillance operation is a shocking finding. The former director-general refused to co- operate with the Inspector-General and concealed his involvement in the e- mail saga. The Oversight Act makes it clear that there is no justification for any member of the services to withhold information from the Inspector- General. However one chooses to frame the events of the past year, it is clear that members of the NIA instructed by the director-general broke the law and undermined the Constitution.

I would like to use this opportunity therefore to correct the misconception that the rights of Mr Masethla, the former director-general, were violated during the course of the Inspector-General’s investigation and that he was not afforded an opportunity to provide his version of events. The Inspector- General interviewed the former director-general once at the beginning of the investigation. At this meeting the former director-general deliberately misled the inspector-general and lied about the circumstances surrounding the surveillance of Mr Macozoma. Following the extension of the terms of reference, the former director-general was asked to provide information related to his knowledge of Project Avani.

He refused to co-operate unless his legal representatives were present and subsequently brought an application to the High Court to compel the Inspector-General to allow his lawyers to be present. There is no precedent on the rights of employees, both in public and private sectors, to outside legal representation in internal processes, even when, in the case of disciplinary proceedings, the outcome of such proceedings may result in action being taken against the employees. The constitutional right to legal representation applies only to accused persons in judicial or criminal proceedings. Despite this, the Inspector-General agreed that the former director-general’s lawyers could be present to advise him of his rights and that they could observe the proceedings. His lawyers argued for the right to participate actively and when no agreement could be reached, the Inspector-General decided that he was not interested in interviewing the former director-general further. By that stage he had sufficient information to complete his inquiry.

There is also the question about the Inspector-General’s decision to finalise his report without interviewing the former director-general and taking his version of events into account. Regarding the argument that the audi alteram partem principle was not applied, we need to set the record straight here. The phrase we know means literally “to hear the other side”, stands for the principle that no one should be condemned without a hearing in which they are to be given an opportunity to respond to accusations. The former director-general had ample opportunity to explain his involvement and he chose not to do so. He was at no stage an accused person. His co- operation was required because by virtue of his position as a director- general at the time, he was in possession of information relevant to the Inspector-General’s inquiry. There can be no justification for an accounting officer to refuse to disclose information at his disposal, by virtue of his official position, to a person authorised to receive such information.

The former director-general said he had nothing to hide. If he had nothing to hide he would surely have had no difficulty in explaining his role.

Given the media speculation following the tabling of this JSCI report, it is important to note that despite the comments and criticisms of the committee in respect of some of the procedural aspects of the Inspector- General’s investigation, the committee does not question the substantive findings. This is because the report was informed by a sound investigation for which the inspector-general and his staff should be wholeheartedly congratulated.

We welcome the findings of the JSCI that any person who acts in contravention of the prescribed procedures is guilty of an offence. We welcome further their finding that surveillance operations conducted by the agency must be done in accordance with internal procedures. The observation of the committee that there is insufficient financial control over the management of the discretionary funds is noted and is serious. But what it does is that it confirms the findings that the former director-general made unauthorised use of the funds. Of course, and I say this to the hon Groenewald, this and the other aspects are all loopholes that are being addressed. Thanks to the committee; they have helped to really focus attention on it.

I want to come to a most important aspect and that is the use of my powers in terms of commissioning the inspector-general to carry out the enquiry. The committee looked at this and looked at another aspect of the oversight Act. It is necessary to clarify this. Section 7(7) of the Act sets out the functions of the Inspector-General. Section 7(7)(cA) provides for the Inspector-General to receive and investigate complaints from members of the public. In addition section 7(7)(c) allows the Inspector-General to perform functions designated by the President or the Minister. The committee’s report suggests that the investigation should have been referred to the Inspector-General in terms of that section 7(cA) of the Act and not that part of the Act in section 7(7)(c) which I invoked. They feel that this in some way undermined the impartiality of the process. I do respect their approach but I here have to clarify my approach. The complainant, Mr Macomoza, was not a complainant in the context of section 7 (7) (cA), he did not complain to the Inspector-General. He complained to the Minister. My immediate reaction was to obtain an explanation from the director-general of NIA. I found his report totally unsatisfactory and it raised my suspicions regarding possible misconduct. As a result, I requested the inspector-general to investigate the matter. I felt I could not rely on the NIA at that time under the control and the command of that former director-general.

Section 7(7)(f) of the Act provides further for the Inspector-General to report back to the Minister or the President on the matters referred to him by the President or me. If one looks at that, I contend that one would see that we, at all times, in fact acted in accordance with the Act and the law. As Minister I am charged with overall accountability for the functioning of the civilian intelligence structures and am obliged at all times to act in the public interest. By referring the matter to the Inspector-General, I believe I acted in the public interest and within my constitutional responsibilities as Minister.

Section 8(1) of the Act provides for the Minister, in consultation with the committee, to make regulations regarding the performance of the functions of the Inspector-General. The committee notes the absence of regulations to guide the Inspector-General in discharging his oversight mandate, and correctly recommends that their finalisation be fast-tracked. We accept this unreservedly.

The authority to investigate allegations of abuse of power or transgressions of the Constitution and applicable legislation is confirmed on the Inspector-General by the Oversight Act. Unfortunately, this Act is silent on the precise procedures to be followed in conducting any investigation. The Inspector-General was simply obliged therefore to conduct his inquiry fairly and in accordance with principles of administrative justice. The committee has rightly highlighted this issue as an area that needs urgent attention. I wish to assure the committee and the House that the process of finalising the regulations is receiving the urgent attention of both the Inspector-General and me – indeed, in consultation with the JSCI.

The committee contends that individuals implicated in misconduct in the inspector-general’s report should have been dealt with in terms of NIA’s internal disciplinary provisions, as set out in Chapter XXVIII of the Intelligence Services Regulations. It argues that this omission on the part of the Minister resulted in members resorting to court applications to enforce their rights.

I am very pleased at the point that the chair of the committee made that in fact, members should not seek redress from the courts but rather internally. I have explained to the committee that I acted in terms of section 19 of the Intelligence Services Act, which allows the Minister to serve, suspend or transfer members in the public interest, provided that the President is consulted if a suspended member is at the level of a DDG or up. The legal advice I received was that it was appropriate for me to act in terms of this provision, as long as I acted fairly and within the provisions of the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act.

The report of the JSCI criticises the Inspector-General for what it describes as his decision to “declassify” his report, without following prescribed procedures. Well, in this respect, we do not need to straighten the matter, because the statement is wrong. The Inspector-General’s report has not been declassified and the full report has not been publicly released. What happened was that the Inspector-General released an edited version of the report and that followed consultation with the President and me, and on the instruction of Cabinet. I do understand how the committee came to make that error. As I have explained to the committee, section 8(b) of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act provides for the Inspector- General to disclose any intelligence or information after consultation with the President or the Minister.

In conclusion, the report contains a number of recommendations intended to ensure greater adherence by the intelligence structures to constitutional values. The committee has noted with concern the fact that some members of the intelligence services were afraid to disobey what they considered to be unlawful instructions from their immediate managers for fear of intimidation. We can report that a training curriculum aimed at instilling an appreciation of the law and the importance of human rights in the conduct of intelligence, is being developed and will be piloted next year.

In addition, I intend tabling for discussion with the committee a regulation on the co-ordination of intelligence that sets out in greater clarity the process and criteria for identifying subjects of investigation and the authorisation required, as well as control processes. This really answers the question put to me by the hon member of the FF Plus. The JSCI is a statutory committee provided for in terms of the oversight Act. This provides the opportunity for ongoing engagement between the committee and the executive on all aspects of the report. I agree with the recommendation that the House notes the committee’s report.

In conclusion, I would like to thank the Inspector-General and his task team and the Joint Standing Committee for Intelligence, its chairperson and hon members, for their hard work, for their commitment to ensuring compliance by our intelligence structures with the law and the Constitution. I believe we emerge from these challenges stronger than ever.

Certainly, as members have pointed out, there are lessons to be learned about how to strengthen our oversight functions. I can report that much is being done to deepen understanding of the Constitution and the law within our intelligence services. This has been of positive value in uplifting their morale. I am politically satisfied with the commitment of the new leadership of the NIA. And as they say: Every cloud has a silver lining. From the dark clouds that were referred to by several speakers, on behalf of the committee, I feel we can positively say that we have learned a lot. We will ensure far greater control. Above all, the people of our country can be confident that the decisive measures taken to stamp out the abuse of power that unfortunately occurred will ensure that our services respect the law. Siyabonga kakhulu. Baie dankie. [Thank you.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, we move that the report be noted.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly noted.

CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST ON RECOMMENDATIONS ON APPOINTMENT OF COUNCILLORS TO THE INDEPENDENT COMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY OF SOUTH AFRICA

Question put: That Dr A J Barendse, Ms M Mohlala, Mr R Nkuna, Ms B Ntombela and Prof J C W van Rooyen be approved for appointment as councillors to fill vacancies on the Council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.

Declarations of vote:

Mrs S C VOS: Chairperson, the IFP opposes this report on a matter of principle, and on principle only. We oppose the appointment of a departmental official in the Department of Communications to a Chapter 9 body, which is tasked with regulating electronic communications and postal services - in other words, a body that is tasked with regulating the very same issues with which he has been working in the department. No matter that this official will of course resign from the department to become an appointed councillor with Icasa; there is the damaging perception that the department official is being placed and his position could in fact end with the bidding of the Minister. We find this undesirable and damaging.

It doesn’t bode well for what the industry will feel about an independent regulator when departmental officials are placed within the very body which is supposed to be independent and regulating the industry independently. Thank you, Chairperson.

Ms M SMUTS: Chair, the list sent back by the Minister to this House complies with the Icasa Act. The National Assembly compiled a list of eight nominations. Under the Icasa Act, as amended, the Minister may then select five names. It is one of the points upon which the President sent this particular Bill back to the National Assembly that this House must then apply its mind in either approving or rejecting the Minister’s choice of five. It must apply its mind against a very specific section - section 5(3). All of the five persons nominated by the Minister comply with that subsection.

There was one single case where we had concerns about whether the relevant candidate met the criterion for openness and accountability. We questioned her on this matter which gave rise to the concerns during her interview. She had in fact undertaken certain legal work which it was felt was possibly in conflict with her councillorship of Icasa when she last held it. She answered us to our satisfaction. She gave us an undertaking that she would not again, if appointed, do such work.

She also argued that in her view what she had done was not in conflict with the law as it then stood. In her view it would be in future, and she gave an undertaking. Therefore, she too now complies with the law as far as we are concerned.

The matter of being a departmental official is part of the broader criteria under which you nominate in the first place. It’s on record that we too prefer that departmental officials not be appointed. The one particular official against whom we would have raised fundamental challenges under subsection 3, has not in fact been nominated by the Minister - to our very great pleasure. Yet another candidate who, in our view, holds a conflict of interests in a commercial sense has likewise not been nominated.

It is our firm view that the five names chosen by the Minister do comply with sub-section 3. It is narrower than those that apply the considerations under which you appoint. We therefore think it is logical and we support these five names. [Applause.]

Mr K M KHUMALO: Chairperson, the ANC had agreed to the five names as recommended by the Minister. The five names come from the original eight that Parliament adopted. Dr Barendse is from the Western Cape, and is actually self-taught and has been for more than 15 years in the telecommunications industry. He is at present based in another country but he is prepared to come back.

The second candidate is Mr Robert Nkuna, a very young, good and dynamic person who holds a Masters degree in Public Policy and Development.

The third candidate is Mamodupi Mohlala, a very good attorney. She received her education in Mazimbu, which later became Solomon Mahlangu Freedom College where she obtained BA Law, LLB, and Masters degrees and she has been a councillor in Icasa. The fourth one is Professor Van Rooyen, a jurist who was an Acting Judge. He wrote the film and publication board law. He is actually a very good person who was also a chairperson of the Broadcasting Complaints Commission.

The four people that we have chosen are Dr Andrew Barendse, Ms Mamodupi Mohlala, Mr Robert Nkuna and Ms B Ntombela. They are the people we are actually recommending and we believe that these are good people. If there is any other name I have left out – yes Ms B Ntombela. That is the name the opposition actually think there is a problem with. In terms of the law, any person in South Africa can apply to become an Icasa councillor. But in the event that these persons are appointed, they will then resign their position to take that position in Icasa because Icasa is a full-time position. So, there is no contradiction, and there is no problem.

Ms Ntombela holds a Masters degree and she is currently a chief director in the office of the Director-General for Posts and Telecommunications. The postal regulatory has been incorporated into the new law in terms of convergence. We believe that these two women – Mamodupi Mohlala and Ms Ntombela – will be able to strengthen Icasa. But most importantly, there are only four Icasa councillors left in the authority. We are bringing in five new ones now.

As the ANC we are concerned that the names that are given will then give you a number of six men and three women. We therefore recommend that in the event that there could be one of them dropping out, those women who are left out, whom the opposition has problems with – Ms Mashile Matlala, Dr Marcia Socikwa and Kedibone Serero-Chiloane - must be considered in the event of there being a vacancy. That’s the ANC position and we believe that these are good people who will strengthen the authority.

There are a lot of issues that the authority must deal with – the issue of the global satellite mobility, the issue of the internet broadband and the issues that relate to satellite navigation systems. These are big challenges that are facing Icasa and we believe these people – all of them – will make a very strong authority. That is the ANC’s position. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Question agreed to (Inkatha Freedom Party dissenting).

Dr A J Barendse, Ms M Mohlala, Mr R Nkuna, Ms B Ntombela and Prof J C W van Rooyen accordingly approved for appointment as councillors to fill vacancies on the Council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.

Request accordingly approved.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON NOMINATION OF PERSONS TO FILL VACANCIES ON COMMISSION ON GENDER EQUALITY

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Hon members, in terms of section 193(5)(b)(ii) of the Constitution, the person recommended for appointment as commissioner must be approved by the majority of the members of the National Assembly. Although a division has not been demanded, members are required to record their support for the recommendation of the nominations as called out for appointment as commissioners. Members will therefore be required to record their support by means of the electronic voting.

Before the bells are rung, we will allow the chairperson to introduce the report.

Ms P TSHWETE: Chair, Minister and Deputy Ministers, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank this House for giving us the opportunity to recommend candidates for the filling of vacancies on the Commission on Gender Equality.

The Ad Hoc Committee on Nomination of Persons to fill Vacancies on Commission on Gender Equality, was appointed by the House on 2 November 2005 to make nominations to the House in order to enable it to recommend to the President persons to fill vacancies on the Commission on Gender Equality in terms of section 3(2) of the Commission on Gender Equality Act, Act 39 of 1996, read with section 193 of the Constitution. The committee was to report to the House by no later than 15 February 2006.

The committee’s deadline had to be extended due to several factors coming into play. For instance, time had to be given to accommodate the local government elections and also to allow time for the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development to re-advertise invitations to the public to nominate suitable candidates for consideration by the committee.

The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development received nominations and curricula vitae and submitted those to the National Assembly during August 2006 for consideration by the committee. The committee received 75 nominations and shortlisted 19 candidates. Two candidates withdrew and the committee therefore interviewed 19.

The committee, in assessing the candidates, took into consideration various criteria which would assist the Commission on Gender Equality to fulfil its mandate.

The committee notes that in terms of section 3(4)(a) of the Commission on Gender Equality Act, the members of the commission may be appointed as full- time and part-time members and shall hold office for a period not exceeding five years, as the President may determine, provided that the term of the office of full-time members shall not expire simultaneously.

The committee has completed its interviewing task and nominated the following candidates for recommendation to the President to appoint as the commissioners: The six full-time members are Dr Tebogo Maitse, Ms Nomboniso Papama Gasa, Ms Janine Louise Hicks, Mr Dizline Mfanozelwe Shozi, Miss Yvette Abrahams and Ms Ndileka Eumera Portia Loyilane. The five part-time members are Adv Salome Khutsoane, Ms Nomazotsho Memani-Balani, Ms Rosieda Shabodien, Mr Bafan Gideon Khumalo and Ms Kenosi Vanessa Meruti.

The committee further recommends that consideration be given to the staggering of the term of office of the full-time commissioners over the period of five years.

In conclusion, I would like to thank the members of the ad hoc committee for their support and efforts throughout the entire process. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mrs S A SEATON: On a point of order: Why are we ringing the bells again?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! The bells are ringing. There is no point of order for now.

Mrs S A SEATON: I hope the doors are going to be closed, Chairperson, with all due respect.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! The bells are ringing and once they have stopped ringing we will close the doors.

Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, with all due respect, the bells rang for a sufficient length of time. There is no way we can have more people coming in.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! I did announce that the bells will ring for three minutes, and that’s it. So, there is no point of order on that issue.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, I think just for the record: The voting stopped and the doors were opened and some members left. Therefore, it’s perfectly in order for the bells to ring to call members back.

Mr D J SITHOLE: Chairperson, I can hear that the instruments are now working - Bhoola is back! [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Hon members, we will now try our instruments, and I hope they will not fail us again. I’m not sure about what the hon Sithole said about them working now. He is not a technician.

Question put: That Adv S Khutsoane, Ms N Memani-Balani, Ms R Shabodien, Mr B G Khumalo and Ms K V Meruti be recommended for appointment as part-time councillors, and Mr T Maitse, Ms N P Gasa, Ms J L Hicks, Mr D M Shozi, Ms Y Abrahams, and Ms N E P Loyilane be recommended for appointment as full-time councillors on the Commission for Gender Equality.

AYES-176: Abram, S; Ainslee, A R; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Asmal, A K; Batyi, F; Benjamin, J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Bloem, D V; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Cachalia, I M; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Coetzee, R; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Doman, W P; Farrow, S B; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gaum, A H; Gigaba, K M N; Gololo, C L; Gumede, D M; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hendrickse, P A C; Hogan, B A; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, C B; Johnson, M; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; King, R J; Koornhof, G W; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Lekgoro, M M S; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madlala- Routledge, N C; Maduma, L D; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahomed, F; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Martins, B A D; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Mbili, M E; Mbombo, N D; Mdaka, N M; Mentor, M P; Meruti, M V; Mgabadeli, H C; Minnie, K J; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mokoena, A D; Moloto, K A; Morobi, D M; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Motubatse- Hounkpatin, S D; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nel, A C; Nene, M J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt- Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngele, N J; Njikelana, S J; Njobe, M A A; Nkabinde, N C; Nkem-Abonta, E; Nkuna, C; Nogumla, R Z; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nyambi, A J; Olifant, D A A; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Seadimo, M D; Sekgobela, P S; Semple, J A; Sibanyoni, J B; Sigcau , S N; Sithole, D J; Skosana, M B; Smith, V G; Smuts, M; Solomon, G; Sonto, M R; Sotyu, M M; Swart, M; Swart, P S; Swathe, M M; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, S C; Van der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M; Van Wyk, A.

ABSTAIN-9: Bhengu, M J; Chang, E S; Mpontshane, A M; Rabinowitz, R; Sibuyana, M W; Smith, P F; Spies, W D; Vezi, T E; Vos, S C.

Majority of support required in terms of section 193(5)(a)(ii) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, not obtained.

Decision of question postponed.

         HIGH COURT DECISION ON THE CASE AGAINST JACOB ZUMA


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr L N DIALE (ANC): Chair, I have the honour of reading the statement of the High Court ruling before this august House. The ANC accepts the decision of the Pietermaritzburg High Court to strike off the roll the case against ANC Deputy President Comrade Jacob Zuma. As we have maintained throughout the course of this matter and, consistent with the provisions of our Constitution, the ANC respects the rule of law and the decisions of our courts. The ANC therefore calls on all South Africans to respect the judgment handed down by the Pietermaritzburg High Court yesterday.

We also extend our appreciation to the members of the ANC and the broad, democratic movement that demonstrated their principled and disciplined support for the ANC Deputy President throughout this difficult period. The ANC commends the manner in which the overwhelming majority of our members conducted themselves during this time. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

           ATTEMPT TO REPLACE CAPE TOWN MAYOR HELEN ZILLE

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr W P DOMAN (DA): Chair, the DA notes with alarm and disgust the attempt by the ANC to replace the governance system in Cape Town in a self-evident attempt to oust the popular Mayor Helen Zille and her highly effective multiparty mayoral committee.

Dit is duidelik dat die ANC jaloers is op die puik dienslewering in Kaapstad en die gesonde administrasie wat daartoe lei dat agterstallige skuld ingesamel word teen ’n koers van meer as 100% van die bedrag van die rekeninge wat elke maand uitgestuur word.

Die stad is natuurlik ook gerat om ’n suksesvolle 2010 Sokkertoernooi aan te bied. Dit is skynheilig van die ANC dat in die res van die land waar hulle die meerdeheid in munisipaliteite vorm hulle die uitvoerende burgermeesterstelsel verkies om alle mag vir hulself toe te eien. Dit is verder treffend dat die ANC geen verandering aan die regeringstelsel beoog by enige van die ander 29 munisipaliteite in die Wes-Kaap nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[It is obvious that the ANC is jealous of the excellent service delivery in Cape Town and the sound administration that is resulting in overdue debts being collected at a rate of more than 100% of the amount of the accounts that are sent out every month.

The city is also geared to host a successful 2010 Soccer tournament. It is hypocritical of the ANC that in the rest of the country where they form the majority in municipalities they prefer the executive mayoral system to arrogate all power to themselves. It is also striking that the ANC plans no further changes at any of the other 29 municipalities in the Western Cape.]

The voters are not stupid. They will recognise this for what it is: a cheap attempt by the ANC to satisfy its insatiable lust for power and a sign of its inability to accept defeat at the polls.

The ANC should respect the electoral wishes of the Capetonians who voted in large numbers for the DA and the other parties. The only thing that these people need is service delivery and not unnecessary anxieties. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

      SETBACKS SUFFERED BY DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr P F SMITH (IFP): Chair, the IFP notes with grave concern the latest setbacks suffered by the Department of Correctional Services. The Minister this week conceded that 738 Correctional Services personnel had been suspended pending disciplinary action during 2005-06, and 555 of the warders on suspension were suspended for longer than 30 days. On average, these Correctional Services personnel spent 92,5 days on suspension – more than three months.

Of even greater concern is the fact that suspended warders’ salaries amounted to a staggering R34 million in the same financial year. The IFP finds this totally unacceptable. The high number of fully paid suspended warders is deplorable, and the IFP calls for a speedy investigation into this matter. Suspended warders should be investigated faster, and their disciplinary hearings, if needed, should be concluded quickly so that the taxpayer does not end up footing a bill running into many millions of rand. Thank you.

                JIPSA’S FOCUS ON GROWING SKILLS BASE


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER (ANC): Madam Chairperson, the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, Jipsa, is focusing on organically growing the skills base that is required to make the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa, a success.

There is a shortage of engineers, artisans and other technically skilled people who are essential in delivering the government’s R372-billion five- year public infrastructure investment programme. Between 1990 and 2000 there was more than a doubling of the proportion of female engineering employment from 5% to 12% of the total. The proportion of black engineers grew in the same period from 10% to 28%. Though both of these increases are dramatic, there is still much room for improvement.

Engineers have played a crucial role in the industrial development of South Africa, but it appears that their importance is declining largely because of a declining employer demand of their skills. South Africa’s universities and universities of technology must increase the number of engineering graduates by a total of 1 000 graduates a year. To make this a reality, the Department of Education has allocated an amount of R48 million to universities in order to increase the number of engineering graduates.

The ANC commends the Department of Education on its efforts to improve the skills of our people. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

              NEW DRUG-RESISTANT STRAIN OF TUBERCULOSIS


                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms N C NKABINDE (UDM): The UDM is concerned about the escalating number of reported cases of a new drug-resistant strain of tuberculosis, which has claimed the lives of more than 50 people in KwaZulu-Natal. This type of TB has recently been reported in Gauteng and now also in the Free State. What we need to see in a case such as this is a public awareness campaign that prevents the outbreak from escalating into a large-scale pandemic. What we have not seen thus far is any public message identifying the likely symptoms, what people can do to avoid infection and where people displaying symptoms can report for treatment. It must be emphasized that this particular strain of TB poses huge risks for the South African population, because of the widespread HIV prevalence and immune deficiency, which lead to a very high rate of mortality. We need government to lead the campaign against silence and stigmatisation that surrounds diseases in the country. Too many people for fear of being stigmatised do not report their illness or seek proper treatment.

                    EMPLOYMENT EQUITY STATISTOCS


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mnr W D SPIES (FF Plus): Voorsitter, die agb Minister van Arbeid het verlede week ’n striemende aanval teen die privaatsektor geloods en die name van ’n klompie maatskappye bekend gemaak wat volgens hom nie voldoen het aan die bepalings van die Wet op Billike Indiensneming nie. Die nie- nakoming van dié wet is ’n kriminele oortreding waarvoor ’n maatskappy met tot R1 miljoen beboet kan word. Die Minister het dus die betrokke maatskappye, waarvan sommige gerespekteerde, genoteerde instellings is, in die openbaar van kriminele gedrag beskuldig. Ons het gister in Pietermaritzburg gesien wat kan gebeur as die staat persone van kriminaliteit beskuldig, voordat sake behoorlik ondersoek is. Die Minister het in hierdie geval presies dieselfde fout gemaak. Nie net het verskeie maatskappye onmiddellik bewys gelewer dat hulle wel voldoen het aan die wet nie, maar die Minister se lys het ook gewys dat sy eie huis nie in orde is. Die Departement van Arbeid se kantoor in KwaZulu-Natal is ook op die lys; so ook nege ander nasionale departemente, 12 provinsiale departemente, 14 staatsinstellings soos die Kantoor van die Openbare Vervolger, die Parlement en Transnet en 25 munisipaliteite. Dit is algemeen bekend dat staatsinstansies en munisipaliteite wat nie verslae ingedien het nie, juis van die mees getransformeerde instansies in die land is. Deurdat hulle dus buite rekening gelaat is, is ’n skeefgetrekte prentjie oor die samestelling van die arbeidsmag en topbestuur in Suid-Afrika die wêreld ingestuur. Die geloofwaardigheid van al die syfers wat deur die Departement van Arbeid se Billike Indiensnemingskommissie oor die stand van regstellende aksie in Suid-Afrika gepubliseer is, is dus onder verdenking. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Chairperson, the hon Minister of Labour launched a scathing attack against the private sector and revealed the names of some companies that according to him did not comply with the provisions of the Employment Equity Act. Non-compliance with this Act constitutes a criminal offence for which a company can be fined up to R1 million. The Minister has therefore publicly accused the companies concerned some of which are respected, listed institutions - of criminal activities. Yesterday in Pietermaritzburg we saw what can happen if the government accuses people of criminality before cases are properly investigated. In this case the Minister made exactly the same mistake. Not only did various companies immediately provide evidence that they had in fact complied with the Act, but the Minister’s list also showed that his own house is not in order. The office of the Department of Labour in KwaZulu-Natal is also on the list; as are nine other national departments, 12 provincial departments, 14 government institutions like the Office of the Public Prosecutor, Parliament and Transnet and 25 municipalities. It is generally known that government institutions and municipalities that did not submit reports, are precisely amongst the most transformed institutions in the country. Because they were not taken into account, a skewed image of the composition of the labour force and top management in South Africa has been sent out into the world. The credibility of all the figures that were published by the Department of Labour’s Employment Equity Commission on the state of affirmative action in South Africa is therefore under suspicion. [Time expired.]]

                     NONALIGNED MOVEMENT SUMMIT


                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms N P KHUNOU (ANC): Thank you, Chairperson, given the 14th Summit of the Nonaligned Movement that was held recently in Havana, it augurs well to share with this House the statement of note by our leaders who undoubtedly are charting a historic course for a new global order. The Indian Prime Minister called for a redefinition of NAM as a forum for economic bargaining with the West and as a multicultural forum to project the theory of the confluence of civilisations, as opposed to the theory of the clash. The acting President of Cuba quoted Fidel Castro’s speech to the NAM summit in Havana delivered 27 years ago, when he insisted on unity and demanded economic justice and for other nations to stop domination of our resources and soaking up the sweat of our brows. Pres Mbeki further said that South- South co-operation was an important means through which to empower developing countries to help each other access modern technologies and to move the nations away from underdevelopment into development. At the 52d national conference, the ANC resolved to take initiatives to reform, restructure and democratise the United Nations and develop a comprehensive strategy for South-South co-operation. I thank you.

                  RECAPITALISATION OF TAXI INDUSTRY


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr S B FARROW (DA): Thank you, Chair, according to presentations to the Portfolio Committee on Transport yesterday, the Taxi Recapitalisation Scheme appears to be heading for chaos. Clearly, to remove 10 000 old and unroadworthy taxis by December 2006 will not be achieved. Despite the roll- out dragging on for over 7 years, problems and confusion still exist with regard to specification, consultation and affordability. Regulations were gazetted, which caused confusion and conflict with the National Land Transport Transition Act, to the extent that all taxi registrations currently in operation could be noncompliant; and coupled to this has been the recent recall of the new Gazelle taxi vehicles for safety reasons. The safety of our commuters must come first, putting the new taxi vehicles into the hands of owners and operators without proper training and law enforcement, could have disastrous consequences. The DA will be monitoring any progress in this regard with interest. Thank you.

                  APOLOGY REQUESTED FROM MR COETZEE


                        (Member’s Statement)

Adv A H GAUM (ANC): Voorsitter, dit wil voorkom asof sommige lede van die DA nie eers meer die basieste ordentlikheid aan die dag kan lê nie. Na bewering het die agb Ryan Coetzee vroeër die maand op ’n parlementêre skoonmaker, mev Martha Fischer, gevloek en gesê: “F… you and go to hell.” Dit het gebeur nadat hy nie die toilet in die Marksgebou kon gebruik nie, want mev Fischer het vir hom gesê dat die badkamervloer nat was. Ons besef dat die DA geen respek vir lede van ander partye het nie, maar vir ’n DA- lid om vieslike taal teenoor ’n parlementêre werknemer te gebruik wat sy ma kon gewees het, is net eenvoudig skokkend. Die ANC is oortuig dat die DA hiermee die menswaardigheid … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Adv A H GAUM (ANC): Chairperson, it appears that some members of the DA do not even have any common decency left. The hon Ryan Coetzee allegedly swore at a parliamentary cleaner, Mrs Martha Fischer, earlier this month and said:”F… you and go to hell”. This happened when he could not use the toilet at the Marks Building because Mrs Fisher had told him that the bathroom floor was wet. We realise that the DA has no respect for members of other parties, but for a member of the DA to use filthy language towards a parliamentary employee who could have been his mother, is simply shocking! The ANC is convinced that the DA hereby violated the human dignity …]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order: The hon Gaum is well aware that this matter is in the hands of the police and he is also well aware of the fact that the hon Mr Coetzee denies these allegations. He should not come and present them as a fact. He is deliberately misleading the House.

Adv A H GAUM (ANC): Voorsitter, ek is nie besig om dit vir ’n feit voor te hou nie. Ek het gesê, “na bewering” word hierdie bewerings gemaak. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die ANC is oortuig dat die DA hierdeur die menswaardigheid van mev Fischer geskend het en haar verneder het. Geen mens verdien om so beledig te word nie. Die ANC doen vervolgens ’n beroep op die agb Ryan Coetzee om mev Fischer om verskoning te vra. Die agb Gibson wil ook nie mense om verskoning vra nie. Ons wil hom egter versoek om verskoning te vra vir sy laakbare gedrag en nie woordspeletjies met die media te speel nie. Dit is tyd dat die DA leer om alle mense met respek te behandel. Goeie maniere kos niks.

In dieselfde asem kan die agb Doman dalk vir ons verduidelik wat van die DA se verkiesingsbelofte geword het, om ’n veelparty uitvoerende komiteestelsel in Kaapstad in te stel. Skynheiligheid moet dalk voor die DA se deur gesoek word. U was die mense wat ’n uitvoerende komiteestelsel voorgestel het, maar daarvan het blykbaar niks gekom nie.

Die HUISVOORSITTER: (Ms C-S Botha): Agb lid, ons sal kyk na die bewerings soos deur die agb Gibson gestel en sal miskien na u toe terugkom daaroor. In die tussentyd, agb Gibson, sal ek vra dat u u woorde van “deliberately misleading” terugtrek.

Die HOOFSWEEP VAN DIE OPPOSISIE: Voorsitter, ek trek my woorde terug. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Adv A H GAUM (ANC): Chairperson, I am not stating it as a fact. I said: “allegedly” these allegations are being made. [Interjections.] The ANC is convinced that the DA, by so doing, thereby violated the human dignity of Mrs Fischer and humiliated her. Moreover, the ANC appeals to the hon Ryan Coetzee to apologise to Mrs Fischer. The hon Gibson is also one who refuses to apologise to people. However, we would request an apology from him for his bad behaviour and not to play word games with the media. It is time for the DA to learn to treat all people with the necessary respect. Good manners do not cost a cent.

In the same breath, the hon Doman can perhaps explain to us what has happened to the election promises of the DA of establishing a multi-party committee system in Cape Town. Maybe, hypocrisy should rather be sought at the door of the DA. You were the ones that suggested a committee system but apparently nothing has come of it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, we shall look at the allegations as stated by hon Gibson and maybe come back to you on that. In the meantime, hon Gibson, I request a retraction of your words “deliberately misleading”.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I retract my words.]

                          CRIME STATISTICS


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr M W SIBUYANA (IFP): Madam Chair, according to crime statistics about 20 000 people are killed every year. Crime has reached an alarming proportion nationally. The Pretoria court recently said in no uncertain terms that the courts were fed up with the disregard criminals have for the lives of innocent people. However, despite the court’s remarks and just after the release of the shocking national statistics on crime, a prosecutor was attacked while in her Pretoria office. It is reported that she was stabbed 10 times by the attacker who was out on bail on a murder case. He tried to rob the prosecutor of her cellphone. Even worse is that her attacker has been caught several times stealing cellphones, but the police allegedly always let him go. It is also not known how the suspect had entered the building with a knife, despite the use of metal detectors at the entrance. It is therefore increasingly critical that the Department of Safety and Security … [Time expired.]

  WORLD LEADERS’ COMMITMENT TO ACHIEVING DEVELOPMENT GOALS BY 2015


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr B J MNYANDU (ANC): Chairperson, in 2000 world leaders pledged their commitment in the Millennium Declaration to achieving eight development goals by 2015. The goals set clear-cut targets to fight poverty; to improve health, education, sanitation and access to water; and empowerment for the world’s poor. The last-mentioned goal, amongst other things, calls for systematic changes in financing development and global governance structures. It further proposes that the benefits of new technologies, especially ICT, are made available to all the citizens of the world.

The ANC thus welcomes the initiatives undertaken by the free and open- source software movement, FOSS, for all to benefit from technological development. We need solutions that are widely available and affordable to all, especially for remote rural and poorly resourced areas. The free and open-source movement has been one of the most profound revolutions taking place in the ICT sector.

Access to knowledge is a matter of human rights and freedom. Health, literacy, education, freedom of speech and participation in the knowledge economy all involve matters of human development and human rights. The synergy between the political objectives of the FOSS movement and many of the progressive movements, which include women’s organisations, stand to be of benefit to the poor masses of Africa and they advance the cause of marginalised people across the world. I thank you. [Time expired.]

IMPLICATION OF JUDGE HERBERT MSIMANG’S DECISION IN JACOB ZUMA’S CASE


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr R COETZEE (DA): Chairperson, the ANC needs to know that the hon Gaum is alleged to have once run an election campaign in Stellenbosch under the slogan “Gaum, Gaum vir Lebensraum”, and you will know that that call is notable for its connection to the Nazi party in Germany. In addition, the decision by Judge Herbert Msimang to strike from the roll the Jacob Zuma corruption hearing is an embarrassment for the National Prosecuting Authority, which has failed to prepare an adequate case against him to date.

The implications for our democracy are likely to be profound, because he can now claim judicial respectability for his claim to be the victim of a political conspiracy, and he may well go on to become president of the ANC before the matter is brought back to court, if it ever is.

The DA is on record as opposing the tendency of President Mbeki to demonise his critics as racists, to centralised power in the Presidency, and to his conducting his business in obscurity out of the public eye. South Africa needs a more inclusive, more open Presidency, but it does not need Jacob Zuma whose populism and popularity are not based on a coherent or indeed even discernible vision or policy platform, but on crude anti-Mbekism.

The ANC often boasts about the depths of its leadership, but surely it can do better than Jacob Zuma? Now is the time to prove it.

               REGIONAL INTEGRATION IN SOUTHERN AFRICA


                        (Member’s Statement)

Ms M D NXUMALO (ANC): Chairperson, my statement is on regional integration. Solidarity in Southern Africa, forged in the heat of struggle, can today, if properly harnessed, help us forge regional integration at a greater pace. This is based on the recognition that the contemporary global situation makes it impossible for any country to be an island sufficient unto itself.

The SA Sugar Association has thrown its weight behind the economic regeneration initiatives taking place in the Southern African Development Community. The association has joined forces with its counterparts in Mozambique, Swaziland and Zimbabwe, and has invested R70 million in a regional sugar terminal in the port of Maputo.

The regional terminal, which will increase the sugar storage capacity in the port by 50 000 tons, was opened last week by Mozambique’s Minister of Transport and Communication. The ANC applauds this initiative by the Sugar Association of our country. This demonstrates their confidence in our people and the region. I thank you.

          FNB PLAN TO TAKE BANKING SERVICES TO RURAL AREAS


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mrs F MAHOMED (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC believes that the financial sector should play a positive developmental role by supporting savings and translating them into investment, and by increasing economic activity through the provision of credit and efficient payment mechanisms. It needs to be noted that on Monday, 18 September, the First National Bank unveiled its plan to take banking services to the rural communities. Ten banks-on- wheels vehicles will be deployed in communities to eliminate the need for customers to travel long distances to conduct their banking.

South Africans who previously did not have access to banking services responded equally by taking up the Mzansi account. By the end of June this year, the number of Mzansi account holders had reached 3,3 million. Indeed, this indicates the interest of our people in banking services.

The ANC calls upon all players in the banking sector to extend banking services to the poor communities beyond the Mzansi account. I thank you.

                 ANC CONTROL OF THE EKHURULENI METRO


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr M WATERS (DA): Chair, the ANC-controlled Ekhuruleni Metro is placing the lives of its residents and emergency personnel at risk. Of the 864 fire- fighter positions across the metro, 308 are vacant; in other words, one in every three positions. Only two fire stations out of the 27 have their full complement of personnel, resulting in most shifts having fewer than the minimum number of fire fighters needed. This is placing the lives of fire fighters at risk, as they do not have the necessary backup in life- threatening situations.

The situation has become so dire that one fire fighter at the Edenvale fire station has tried to commit suicide owing to the frustrations at the workplace. He cited the fact that no strict criteria were used when appointing new personnel, and that he could no longer cope with colleagues who were scared of entering burning buildings, were scared of heights, who could not drive emergency vehicles properly, and who did not know how to perform basic procedures such as the resuscitation of patients and the taking of blood pressure.

This means that some people have been employed as fire fighters without the Metro ensuring that they have passed their basic ambulance course, which is supposed to be a prerequisite to becoming a fire fighter. In Kempton Park, when a house was on fire, a fire engine arrived with only two fire fighters and neither of them knew how to use the equipment on the vehicle, resulting in the house burning to the ground.

The ANC-controlled Ekhuruleni Metro is making a mockery of this once-proud profession and needs to realise that fire fighting is an essential service that benefits all the residents of Ekhuruleni, rich and poor, and that it needs to be placed at the top of the agenda. I thank you, Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

        MEASURES TO FIGHT EXTREME DRUG-RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS


                        (Minister’s Response)

IPHINI LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEZEMPILO: Sihlalo, angiphendule lapha isitatimende esenziwe yilungu elihloniphekile le-UDM. Angigcizelele ukuthi le nhlobo yesifo sofuba okunzima ukuyelapha ebizwa nge-extreme drug-resistant TB ifana nse nesifo sofuba lesi esaziwayo esikade saba khona. Kusho ukuthi izimpawu ziyefana nse: ukujuluka ebusuku ulele, ukukhwehlela kuze kudlule amasonto amabili ulokhu ukhwehlele njalo, ukungakufuni ukudla nokuncipha komzimba.

Lesi sifo siba khona-ke nakwezinye izitho zomzimba. Kubalulekile ukuthi sazi ukuthi siba khona nakwezinye izitho zomzimba, okusho ukuthi kungenzeka ungabi nazo lezi zimpawu esengizibalile ezifana nokukhwehlela.

Kodwa-ke ilungu elihloniphekile sifuna nje ukulazisa ukuthi kunomkhankaso okhona ngaphandle. Mhlawumbe njengoba silapha ePhalamende ezinye izinto asizazi futhi asizizwa, kodwa kunomkhankaso osunesikhathi uqalile. NgoMashi savakashela laphaya kwaMakhutha lapho safike savula uhlelo lokulwa nesifo sofuba, singuMnyango wezeMpilo. Kusho ukuthi siye sakhetha izifunda ezithize njengeTheku, Amathole ukuze sikwazi ukuthi sifake umfutho namandla ekutheni kuliwe nesifo sofuba.

Maqondana nalesi sifo sofuba esibizwa nge-extreme drug resistant TB ngifuna ukwazisa ilungu elihloniphekile ukuthi njengoba sitholakale laphaya eTugela Ferry, lesiya sibhedlela singaphansi koMnyango futhi sisebenzelana neYunivesithi yaKwaZulu-Natali. KwakunguMnyango wezeMpilo owacela ukuthi baphenye ngalolu hlobo lwesifo. Yikho-ke kunemiphumela. Ngizama ukubonisa ilungu elihloniphekile ukuthi sengathi alikho kahle iqiniso ekutheni uMnyango wezeMpilo awenzi lutho ngalesi sifo sofuba.

Kodwa-ke okokugcina engizokugcizelela ukuthi, njengoba emasontweni amathathu edlule ubuziwe umbuzo ngesifo sofuba, ngiye ngasho ukuthi kubaluleke kakhulu ukuthi sonke sibambisane ukuze sikwazi ukulwa nalesi sifo sofuba – ikakhulukazi kulabo abaphila negciwane leNgculazi ngoba igciwane leNgculazi lenza ukuthi izivikela-mzimba zehle, umzimba ube ntekenteke. Kubalulekile ukuthi sisebenze sonke ngokubambisana. Kodwa-ke asikho isidingo sokuthi bese siyethuka ngalesi sifo sofuba; okudingekayo kuphela nje ukuthi sisebenzisane ukuze silwe nayo. (Translation of isiZulu member’s statement follows.)

[The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, let me respond to the statement made by the hon member of the UDM. Let me emphasize that this type of tuberculosis, which is difficult to cure, is called-extreme drug- resistant TB. This type of TB is the same as the commonly known tuberculosis which has been around for a long time. It means that the symptoms are the same: sweating at night while one is asleep, poor appetite and loss of weight.

This disease is also found in other parts of the body. It is important that we take note of the fact that it is also found in other parts of the body, which means that it can happen that you may not have these symptoms which I have mentioned, like coughing.

However, we want to inform the hon member that there is a campaign going on out there. Perhaps as we are here in Parliament there are some other things we do not know and we do not hear about them, but there is a campaign which started a long time ago. In March we visited KwaMakhutha where we, as the Department of Health, started a programme to fight tuberculosis. It means that we selected certain regions like eThekwini and Amathole so that we are able to instil some more energy into fighting tuberculosis.

With respect to the tuberculosis called extreme drug-resistant TB, I want to inform the hon member that this disease was discovered in Tugela Ferry, and that particular hospital is under the Department of Health and works hand in hand with the University of KwaZulu-Natal. It was the Department of Health that requested them to investigate this type of tuberculosis. That is why there are results. I am trying to prove to the hon member that it is not true to say that the Department is not doing anything about this tuberculosis.

But lastly I would like to emphasize that, as the question was asked three weeks ago in connection with tuberculosis by the hon member, it is very important that we all co-operate so that we are able to fight tuberculosis, more especially for those who live with Aids, because Aids causes the CD4 count to drop and the body becomes weak. It is important that we work co- operatively. But there is no need for us to panic about this tuberculosis; what is needed is only to work co-operatively so as to fight it.]

                    EMPLOYMENT EQUITY STATISTICS
          OUTCOME OF THE ANC DEPUTY PRESIDENT’S COURT CASE
           ALLEGED CENTRALISATION OF POWER BY THE PRESIDENT

                        (Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, with regard to the issue raised by the hon member from the FF Plus about employment equity, I wonder if he would be as vocal in support of this policy. I really would like to challenge him because we have not heard much from him supporting this policy and making suggestions about how he thinks it should be implemented successfully.

We have now heard his complaints and comments, but they are not enough. South Africa is changing. We would like to hear him saying how he thinks this policy should be implemented in a manner that would allow his concerns to be addressed.

With regard to the matter of the judgement yesterday, I think it is important to say to the DA that the ANC will decide its own leadership. Surely, we will not be told who to elect, on the basis of whatever reasons that the DA may have. The deputy president of the ANC has always called for his day in court and he got it. He is a great democrat and respects our constitutional democracy. He has a great track record and the depth of his leadership, unfortunately, cannot be understood by the likes of the DA.

The trial of the deputy president; the noninterference of the ANC and the government; and the decision of the judge yesterday all attest to the strength of our democracy as well as the independence of our courts. To say here that the President is centralising power is a fallacy and a figment of the imagination of those who make that allegation. There is nothing that can be proved to that effect.

Every single power that the President of the ANC enjoys has been given to him by the national executive committee of the ANC. Every single power he enjoys under the Constitution was granted to him in broad daylight when we adopted the Constitution in 1996. It would be sad to be advised that when Parliament adopted this Constitution, the hon members of the opposition were snoozing and that only now have they woken up to realise that the President has too much power.

I think the President does not have too much power, but we are building a democratic state that is the antithesis of a new liberal state and we are on a great course.

In so far as all of these things are concerned, including the trial of the deputy president of the ANC and the judgement, our democracy is strong and our courts are truly independent. I thank you. [Applause.]

                JIPSA’S FOCUS ON GROWING SKILLS BASE


                     NONALIGNED MOVEMENT SUMMIT


                  RECAPITALISATION OF TAXI INDUSTRY


                          CRIME STATISTICS


                       (Minister’s Responses)

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, firstly, I would like to welcome the ANC member’s comment on our attempt to improve the skills base in South Africa. We hope we will see more such support for universities and FET colleges as well as universities of technology because we do need to train more and more skilled persons for the various industries in our country. In fact, it might be a good idea if some of the hon members themselves did some training in engineering and other critical skills so that as we increasingly get rid of them out of Parliament, they do have some form of future outside the House. [Laughter.]

In addition I really sincerely welcome the hon Gibson, a former artisan who appears fairly frail now. But our FET colleges are open to him as well.

I would like to welcome the statements hon members made concerning the strengthening and equalisation of trade ties across the world and the improving of access for developing countries’ goods to the developed world. The current trade regimes are unfair, particularly to the countries of the South. Something needs to be done in order to create a far fairer platform of trade.

I think the current conditions and the remarks made by all the presidents at the Non-Aligned Summit pose a challenge for our Parliament and the Members of Parliament to more carefully assess all these issues in so far as they impact on South Africa. How far are we proceeding in so far as bridging the digital divide? How might we use technology in order to support development in South Africa? How are our farmers affected by the subsidies granted to farmers in the North? What status do our products enjoy? Why is it that while countries such as Australia expanded their commodity production base, we who are such a large commodity-based economy are not expanding in similar terms?

These are concrete issues, which you don’t just direct as statements in the House but which, as Members of Parliament, you actually have to investigate. I think the leaders in the Non-Aligned Summit have given clear signals of an agenda which the parliaments in the various countries should be pursuing and looking into far more carefully. As parliamentarians, we do interact with members of parliament of other jurisdictions and we should be saying to them they should address the matter of equity in trade access and greater support to the developing world and that they need to move beyond good statements to actual action to ensure that we enjoy access and equality of trade.

The Taxi Recapitalisation Programme is an important programme. It is not in chaos. There are challenges when you make such a major change to a system of transport in our country. We need to improve the level of transport that is provided for the public in South Africa. But we must do that by making this recapitalisation process work. The current condition cannot be allowed to continue. So, I think what hon members should do is to put their shoulders to the wheel by ensuring that indeed we proceed and stop with the notion that there is chaos there. There isn’t. The Gazelles are not being withdrawn by government but by the makers of that particular car. So, curb everything in a way that it doesn’t actually have an association.

Finally, certainly hon member, one should be concerned – and we said this time and again – about the murder statistics in our country. It does beg a number of questions which we must ask about our society, especially because if you study the statistics carefully, one of the factors that emerges is that the bulk of the murders are committed by persons who know their victims.

We therefore must ask: How do we engineer social change in the way that we conduct ourselves in the home, in social settings and other areas so that we stop this practice of violence against each other? It is not merely a question we put here; it is a question we must address in our constituency work, in our social relations so that we alter this propensity to violence that exists in our society. Something that concerns us must concern all of us but it is something we address together as South Africans. We are attempting to do so as government, but we would ask members to lend a hand. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

                     RULING ON OFFENSIVE REMARK

                             (Statement) The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order! Before I ask the Secretary to read the last Order of the Day, I would like to make a statement on a ruling I gave yesterday, 20 September 2006. During the debate of the House yesterday on a motion of censure by the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party against hon D H M Gibson, I asked hon R B Bhoola to withdraw the remarks he had made that reflected on the integrity of Mr Gibson.

I want to say that before I continue with the prepared statement on my ruling, it has kindly been brought to my attention that some members genuinely had not heard the offending remark and that others genuinely believed that I had not heard them either. If my subsequent explanation unwittingly contributed to the ensuing confusion, I apologise for that. But hon members, I had quite clearly heard the remarks and made a carefully considered ruling.

In response to my request, Mr Bhoola asked exactly what he had to withdraw. I replied that he had to withdraw the reference that he had made to Mr Gibson. Mr Bhoola refused to withdraw his remarks. I gave him a further opportunity to withdraw, and again he refused. As Mr Bhoola was acting in defiance of the Chair, I ordered him to withdraw from the Chamber, as is required in terms of the Rules. It was clear at that point that Mr Bhoola knew full well what remarks had given offence, therefore his refusal to withdraw them.

Several points of order were raised contending in effect that the Chair should have repeated the offensive remarks so that Mr Bhoola and members of the House could know what he was expected to withdraw. The mere fact that I from the Chair chose to intervene in this case without waiting for a point of order to be raised indicates that I found his remarks offensive in the extreme, as hon members should have. I do not believe that it can be expected of the Chair to repeat such offensive words. Their repetition would only lend them a credence, which they most certainly do not deserve.

When points of order are raised in terms of the Rule on Unparliamentary Language, the hon member raising the point of order often repeats the offensive remarks in order to draw the Chair’s attention to the exact words or precise phrase he or she is objecting to. In this case, as the Chair had elected to intervene, it was not necessary to repeat the offensive remarks. It’s also the duty of all members in the House to listen to what is being said in the debate.

Furthermore, the words that gave offence have been recorded in Hansard. So, there is an official record of exactly what Mr Bhoola said for the information of all members of this House and the public.

Having had the opportunity to study the unrevised Hansard of Mr Bhoola’s speech, I repeat what I said yesterday: namely that I stand by the ruling I gave at the time. Thank you. [Applause.]

   PROCLAIMING OUR AFRICAN IDENTITY THROUGH OUR CULTURAL HERITAGE


                      (Debate on Heritage Day)

Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN: Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, I hope you have your translation device.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I have, thank you.

Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN: Thank you.

Maloko ao a hlomphegago, Maafrika- Borwa ka moka, lehono re keteka letšatši le bohlokwa la go ikgantšha ka botho bja rena ka ditšo tša rena. Potšišo yeo re swanetšego go leka go e araba ka moka ga rena ge re le mo, ke gore a bohwa bja rena ke eng? A botšo bja rena ke eng? A ke eng seo re ratago go se šiela bana le ditlogolwana tša rena gore e be bohwa bja bona?

Ke nyaka go nea mohlala ka gore gantši ge re bolela ka mmušo wa peleng wa kgatelelo re ama wola wa dingangele, wa bomaganagobušwa le wa bao ba bego ba sa rate go bona lethabo. Re a lebala gore bophelo bo be bo no tšwela pele tlase ga mabaka ao. Gape ge bophelo bo tšwela pele e be e le mo go botse, go natefa ka nako tše dingwe ka ge bophelo re bo fiwa ke Mmopi.

Re gopola tšeo di diregetšego mo matšatšing a fetilego. Gape gantši re be re re le ge re le tlalelong, re fela re sega. Go na le lebaka le lengwe leo ke sa le lebalego leo ke felago ke gopotša ba bangwe bao ke ilego ka šoma le bona mo nywageng yela ye methata. Ke ka mogwera wa ka yo a ilego a bona gore a tlole moriri wa gagwe a o fetole mmala. Gabotsebotse yena e be e le motho wo ka Seisemane re ka rego ke wa “Indian origin”. Yena o be a dirile moriri wa gagwe gore e be o mošweu. Eitše ge maphodisa a fihla, a tlile go mo swara, a mmotšiša gore o kile a bona kae Moindia wa moriri o mošweu? [Where did you see a blonde Indian?] Lehono, ge re bolela ka tšeo re a sega ka gore “lehulebe ke disego”.

Lehono lefase ka bophara le hlompha Afrika-Borwa ka tsela yeo e tlišitšego diphetogo ka gona ka khutšo. Bjale bohwa bjo re nago le bjona, bjo re bo tšerego go baetapele ba rena ba bjale ba go swana le boMadiba, ke go tseba gore re ka kgona go rera melato le go fetša mathata a rena ka khutšo. Ke bohwa bjo re bo šielago le bana ba rena.

Nhla ya bobedi, ke gore ngwageng wa go feta, Morena Kgotso Khumalo o itše ge a eme fa, a re gopotša gore re le setšhaba sa Afrika-Borwa, re na le dika le maswao ao e lego gore re tseba ka ona gore tše ke tša Afrika-Borwa. Folaga ya Afrika Borwa ke le lengwe la maswao, Koša ya Setšhaba ke ye nngwe yeo re e tsebago ka moka. Re na le mehlare, diphoofolo le matšoba.

Eupša ke nyaka go botša kgoro ye gore gantši ke a nyama ge ke lebeletše ge go opelwa Koša ya Setšhaba, kudukudu ge e le mo go tlilego go ralokwa kgwele ya dinao ntshe. Gantši ke bona masogana a rena ao a ralokago kgwele ya dinao, ge a opela Koša ya Setšhaba, a opela a sohla borekhu, seo re se bitšago “chewing gum”. O ka ipotšiša gore afa a a kwešiša gore Koša ya Setšaba e ra goring? Ao ke manyami ao re bago le ona. O tlo hwetša gape batho ba bangwe ba sa tsebe gore ba direng. Ba bangwe ba bea seatla pelong, ba bangwe ba a se lekeletša, ba bangwe ba huna seatla ba nyaka go dira “maatla” ka ge ba sa tsebe gore ge go opelwa Koša ya Setšhaba ba swanetše gore ba direng.

Kganthe ge re le bathofeela, seo re swanetšego go se dira ke seo ka Seisemane ba rego ke “attention”, e sego go bea seatla pelong goba phatleng goba go se lekeletša e ke se a go imela. Tše ke dilo tšeo re swanetšego gore re rutaneng ka tšona, le bana ba rena ba di tsebe.

Mokgwa ke gore tšeo mmušo o lekilego go di aga, ka nako ye nngwe ga re boledišane ka tšona. Re na le lekgotla lela le bitšwago MRM -Moral Regeneration Movement - ka Seisemane, yeo e lego gore e na le maswao e kgona go thuša baswa gore ba tsebe dilo tše ka moka gore ge go direga eng re swanetše re dire bjang rena re le batho. Ka ge e le Moporesidente feela a beago seatla mo lehlakoreng la gagwe.

Matšatšing a go feta Kgoro ya tša Meetse le Kagodithokgwa, e re file mohlašana ge ba be ba e laetša ka mola pele. Mo mehlašaneng ye ba bego ba e swere, go be go na le mohlašana wo mongwe wo bitšwago “Wild Peach”. Re le Maafrika-Borwa, bontši ga re tsebe gore mohlašana wo o mela kae le gore o dira eng. Gape ka nako e ntši re ile ra tloša mehlare yeo re bego re na le yona ka magaeng ka ge e be e šomišwa ke dikebekwa le maphodisa a kgale go iphihla gona. Eupša bjale ke nako ya gore re thome go gaša mehlare yeo ka magaeng a rena, kudukudu go gaša mehlare yeo e enyago dienywa tšeo re di jago – go swana le diperekisi.

Ka ge re tseba gore gantši batswadi ba ya mešomong, ge ba boa mešomong bana ba kgone gore ba raloke fao ba kgone le go ja dienywa. Ba banenyana le bona ba kgone go ja borekhu bjo gore ba se ke ba phakiša ba eya kgweding ka ge re tseba gore ke mathata ao re nago le ona matšatši a. Ke tlo ga nnyane go leleme la Seisemane. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Honourable members, South Africans at large, today we celebrate a very important day – the day we are able to show pride in who we are and in our cultures. The question we should ask ourselves as we are here is what our heritage is. Where do we originate from? What is it that we want to leave behind for our children and grandchildren as their heritage?

I would like to give an example. Usually when we talk about the apartheid regime, we are talking about the government of very difficult people – rebels and those who were totally against peace. We forget that life went on even under those circumstances. It was wonderful when life went on like that, as it is God who gives us life.

Things that happened in those difficult times are still vividly clear in our memories. We used to laugh at them sometimes when we were troubled. There was this particular time that I shall never forget and I always reminded my then-colleagues of it. It is about a friend of mine who dyed his hair blonde. He was of Indian origin. When the police arrived to take him in, they asked him where he had ever seen a blonde Indian. Today we laugh as we talk about this and other memories. We laugh because it eases the pain.

Today the whole wide world admires the peaceful way that transformation has taken place in South Africa. What we have inherited from our leaders such as Madiba is to know that we can negotiate and conquer peacefully. This is the kind of legacy that we will leave for our children.

Secondly, when Mr Kgotso Khumalo was on this platform last year, he reminded us that we are a South African nation and we have signs and symbols that we identify with. The South African flag and the national anthem is one of these symbols that we are all familiar with. We also have indigenous trees, animals and flowers.

I must tell this august House though that I get very disappointed in most cases when the national anthem is sung, especially during soccer sessions. Most of the times I see the soccer players singing and chewing gum at the same time. You ask yourself whether they really understand what the national anthem is all about. This is the sad part of it. Some people do not know what positions to take when they sing the national anthem. Some will put their hands on their hearts, some will just let them hang loose, and some will fold their hands into fists as a sign of power as they are not sure what to do when they sing the national anthem.

But all we have to do is what is referred to in English as “standing to attention”, and not put our hands on our hearts or foreheads or even leave them hanging as if they’re heavy and a strain on you. These are the things we must teach each other and ensure that our children learn them too.

Sometimes we never talk about the things that the government has established. We have an organisation called in English, “Moral Regeneration Movement”, the MRM, which has all the information required to assist the youth in terms of what to do and how to go about it. It is only the President who can put his hand on his side.

For these past few days, the Department of Water and Forestry gave us a small tree at the time when there was a presentation. Among all the trees they had, there was one called “Wild Peach”. Most South Africans are not familiar with the requirements to plant that tree. In the past, we had to cut down most of our trees because criminals and the police then used to hide in them. Now it is time to plant trees round our homes, especially those that will bear fruit that we will eat, like peaches.

As we know, in most cases parents have to go to work. Their children need to play around these trees and eat the fruit. Young girls also need to eat gum from the trees so that they do not start their menstrual cycles early. We all know the challenges we face these days. I will speak in English for just a little while.]

In 1997 some professors from the UK told us that they were transforming their education system. One of the things they identified as important was having their nursery schools next to the old age homes, because they thought it was progressive to help growing children acquire certain types of knowledge from the elderly people.

For us, who grew up with three or four generations in the home, we knew exactly what they were trying to achieve. This came about because of the indigenous knowledge here at home. We know that elderly people who have enough patience, Mr Gibson, are able to educate children with wisdom. They have all the patience.

With different generations growing up under one roof, one has the elderly people representing the past, the parents representing the present and the children representing the future. When all three generations interact, a good culture matures in the process. This is one of the things I would like us to revisit as South Africans, rather than to adopt things that prevent us making progress.

Madam, I have just realised that time is really running out.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): You still have two minutes and 45 seconds, hon member.

Ms S D MOTUBATSE-HOUNKPATIN: I want to remind the members that we also have a very important commission here which we really need to work with and engage in with our constituencies. This commission, formed under section 185 of the Constitution, is the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities. This is because it has some responsibility for promoting and developing peace, friendship, humanity, tolerance and national unity amongst cultural, religious and linguistic communities.

This, to me, is very important because if we want to promote a culture of peace as South Africans in order to add to the foundation we have at the moment, this commission will help give us more tools so that this can grow and continue to be the culture of South Africa. Tolerance is one of the strengths we have as South Africans.

Ke be ke maketše matšatšing a go feta ge re be re bolela ka go fa maina a dibaka tše itšego, re thoma dikgogakgogano. Rena re godilego le ba bagolo, re tseba gore kgotlelelo ke selo seo se bago gona kae kapa kae ge re le batho re phedišana ka gore ge batho ba se na kgotlelelo – ge o le yo mo botse o sa kgotlelele sekobo, sekobo le sona ke motho se na le seo se tsebago go se dira. Ke ka fao ba felago ba re le se ke la mmona a le ka mokgwa wo ke sekobo eupša pelo ya gagwe e a lewa.

Ge re kgotlelelana, re tla kgona go kgotlelelana gape re le batho ba mebala ye e sa swanego. Re tla kgona go kgotlelelana re le banna le basadi, ka go kwešišana gore ga re swane eupša re na le tšeo re kgonago go di phetha ka go fapana ga rena. Ke ka fao le ba bagolo ba bego ba kgotlelela.

Re tseba gore ge re gola, ka moka e be e re ge ba bolela ba re re ya thabeng tša gaMogale, re kwe ba bangwe ba šaetša ba re Magaliesberg. Ge re bolela ka Polokwane re re Polokwane ga Maraba! Re re Tshwane a Mamelodi! ka gore go reta ke tsela ya rena ya go phela. Re fo makala ge re kwa bona ba bitša ka tsela yeo ba bego ba bitša ka yona e re ge ba šaetša re re a re ba leseng, re a kgotlelela. Ke ka fao le lehono kgotlelelo ya rena re swanetšego go e šomiša ka tsela yeo e swanetšego.

Go na le batho ba bangwe ka gore ga re kgone go bolela maleme a rena ka tsela ye e swanetšego ka baka la ‘apartheid’ ke ka fao o kgonago go kwa ba bangwe ba sa kgone gore Mpumalanga gona bjale ba re Mapumalanga. Feela re swanetše gore re kgotlelele re ba thuše gore ba kwešiše. Pele re ruta bana ba rena maleme a Sefora le Sejeremane, a re ithuteng gore rena re tsebe maleme a rena mo gare ga naga, ka tsela yeo re tla kgona go tšwela pele – re tla kgona gore bohwa bjo bja rena bjo re bo swarelele re tšwele pele ka tsela yeo e swanetšego. Ke a leboga. [Nako e fedile.] [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[An argument arose when we were naming particular areas in the past few weeks. As we grew up with the elderly people, we know that it is necessary to have tolerance. Beautiful people find it difficult to tolerate ugly ones even though the latter are also human and might have something beautiful about them; hence people say that someone is ugly but they have a beautiful heart.

We would achieve racial and gender tolerance if we gave each other a chance. We would be able to acknowledge that we are different and we have different skills. That is why the elderly people had tolerance for one another.

When we grew up, everybody was talking about going to “Thabeng ya ga- Mogale”, others mistakenly call it Magaliesberg. When we talk about Polokwane, we say, “Polokwane ga-Maraba!” We also say, “Tshwane-a- Mamelodi”. Praise is our way of life. We are surprised at what people would call these places. When they make mistakes, we just tolerate them. But today, our tolerance must be clearly targeted.

Due to the apartheid regime, some people are unable to speak our languages. You hear people saying “Mapumalanga” instead of “Mpumalanga”. We must tolerate them anyhow and help them to learn these names. We must teach our children the languages spoken in our country before we can teach them foreign languages such as French and German. That way we can be a progressive nation and promote our heritage in an appropriate way. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Ms D VAN DER WALT: Chairperson and colleagues, we stand here today before this House to debate how our country can best proclaim our African heritage.

Dit is nie ’n nuwe uitdaging nie, maar bly beslis steeds een van die grootstes - trouens, ’n mens kan selfs argumenteer, die heel belangrikste. Respek vir ’n ander kultuur, die aanleer om te deel, die viering en herdenking van ander landgenote se geskiedenis is beslis die hoeksteen van ’n land wat verenig is agter ’n gemeenskaplike doel om ’n Suid-Afrika te bou waarin elke persoon gelyk is en elke individu ’n geleentheid het om suksesvol te wees. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [This is not a new challenge, but undoubtedly remains one of the biggest challenges – in fact, one can even argue that it is the most important one. Respecting another culture, learning to share, celebrating and commemorating the history of fellow-citizens certainly form the foundations of a country which is united toward the common goal of building a South Africa in which everyone is equal and every individual has the opportunity to be successful.]

This was the central message that Albie Sachs put to the ANC in 1990. In an in-house paper he argued that:

Without doubt, the ANC will continue to be the principal architect of national unity after the foundations of apartheid have been destroyed and the foundations of democracy laid. Yet this does not mean …

He continued:

… that the ANC is the only voice in the anti-apartheid struggle or it will be the only voice in postapartheid South Africa.

We will have Zulu South Africans, Afrikaner South Africans, Indian
South Africans, Jewish South Africans, Venda South Africans and Cape
Muslim South Africans. Each cultural tributary continues towards and
increases the majesty of the river of South Africanness. Dit was die visie, die doelwit en die uitdaging wat hy in 1990 aan die ANC gestel het. Vandag, 16 jaar later, is dié uitdaging steeds geweldig belangrik en beslis relevant. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[This was the vision, the goal and the challenge that he put to the ANC in

1. Today, 16 years later, this challenge is still crucial and absolutely relevant.]

Anyone in this country who harbours any sympathy for apartheid and what that terrible system did to the majority of people in this country has no place in South Africa. Large sections of our history have been lost. We must find these sections.

An enormous number of people were treated as illegitimate. We must embrace and promote them. Many cultures were ridiculed and dismissed. We must celebrate them. It is a very simple task in its conception but a very complex challenge in its realisation.

Dit bly ’n uitdaging omdat ons teen ’n ANC-meerderheid staan wat nié Albie Sachs se pleidooi ten volle aanvaar het nie en nog te gereeld hulself voorhou as die enigste wettige stem in ons land. [The challenge remains because we are confronted with an ANC majority that does not accept the appeal by Albie Sachs in its entirety, and still too often perceives itself as the only legitimate voice in our country.] And also, it is a great challenge because we have many minorities who feel under siege, and who feel hostile toward a government that is progressively sidelining their concerns and culture.

It is a conflict and it is only reconcilable if both sides are willing to make a concession. The ANC majority needs to learn that it cannot control everything in this country and the minorities need to understand that, if we are going to move forward, we have to share this country - our country.

In his paper Albie Sachs also says the following:

We exercise true leadership by being nonhegemonic, by selflessly trying to create the widest unity of the oppressed, and to encourage all forces for change by showing people that we are fighting, not to impose a view upon them, but to give them the right to choose the kind of society they want and the kind of government they want.

If we are to proclaim our African heritage, then this is the sentiment all South Africans need to embrace.

Dit is ons beroep vandag voor die Huis en die uitdaging aan alle Suid- Afrikaners daar buite. Ek dank u. [Applous.] [Today, this is our appeal to the House and the challenge to all South Africans out there. I thank you. [Applause.]]

Prince N E ZULU: Hon Chair, earlier this week, this House was seized with a statement that decried the manner in which the House of Traditional Leader in KwaZulu-Natal was established and sworn in under a law passed just the previous day.

Traditional leadership is one of the core institutions of our African heritage, and the manner in which it was treated in that ceremony made us ask whether or not our democracy does value this institution.

However, that we have Freedom Park in South Africa, the park that is an embodiment of all sentiments of African heritage, is a giant step in the right direction.

Our heritage is our legacy passed on from generation to generation. It is what we are today and what we will be in the future, expressed in our family values - in the naming of our newborn children and institutions, mountains and rivers; the celebration of our customs and the adoration of the name of God in different tongues. Heritage is the source of life, love and inspiration.

Africa should be celebrating and singing ``Hallelujah’’ every day for the fact that humanity started in Africa. African culture has a profound identity and spirituality. It breeds a strong sense of self-worth and self- esteem, enshrined in the philosophy of “You are what you are because of me, and I’m what I am because of you”. These values are intergenerational; the young take them from the old and preserve them for their children. A major component of heritage is traditional music and instruments which convey the most profound sense of culture and artistic values of civilisation.

Some of the members in this House must have listened to Sibongile Khumalo transmitting Princess Magogo ka Dinizulu’s traditional and cultural songs into today’s music. That is culture blended with modern technology. We need more of these creative minds. Thank you, Chair.

Mr J BICI: Chairperson, hon members, the definition of what constitutes African identity has been in dispute for so many years. This has led to the constant questioning and moulding of what constitutes African identity. In itself this was not a negative or positive thing, but what happened is that the African cultural heritage was systematically denounced, wiped out or simply removed and exported to foreign shores by invaders and colonialists.

The quest for a free South Africa is to rediscover, re-establish and, where relevant, regain our cultural heritage that was previously uprooted or suppressed. In our institutions, such as this one, that is Parliament, we need to ask ourselves why we are not doing more and spending more to regain lost heritage and to celebrate the emerging cultural artefacts and traditions.

Our languages also do not receive the attention and investment they deserve, and language is a vessel that carries the values of a nation’s heritage and history. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Nkskz N D MBOMBO: Mgcinisihlalo, nani malungu ale Ndlu abekekileyo, ndiyanibulisa egameni likaKhongolose. Mna ndiza kuthetha ngamathala eencwadi. UMqulu wethu maMalungelo kunye nesivumelwano saseStellenbosch, i- Stellenbosch Resolution, uthi: (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Mrs N D MBOMBO: Chairperson, and hon members of this House, I greet you in the name of the ANC. I am going to speak about the libraries, the Bill of Rights as well as the Stellenbosh agreement, the Stellenbosch Resolution, which says:]

“The doors of learning and culture shall be opened,” and so will the library doors. Okokuqala, la mathala kufanele ukuba agcinwe ekweyona meko iphucukileyo. Nathi Malungu ePalamente kufanele ukuba siwajonge ngeliso lokhozi apho akhoyo.

La mathala awanqabanga koko awakho ezilalini, emaphandleni, nasezindaweni ezazifudula izezabantu abamnyama kuphela, ii-township ngesiNgesi. Kaloku kwakukho umbuzo othi: Siza kufunda ntoni, senze ntoni ngemfundo ngoba siya kuhlala sisebenza ezindlwini nasezitiyeni zabamhlophe, sinonophela abantwana babo, oo”kleinbaas”, oo”Ounooi” noo”kleinmissus”. Siya kuhlala singoo-Jane, ooPikinini, noo-Jim, singaziwa namagama ethu, kungenziwa zinzame zokuba aziwe.

Siyacela ke kwiSebe lezoBugcisa neNkcubeko ukuba liwuthathele ingqalelo umba wala mathala. La mathala ndithetha ngawo awaphethwanga kakuhle luluntu, enziwa iindawo zeentlanganiso zikawonke-wonke.

Omnye umba ngowokuba uluntu lwenza la mathala angabukeki, angathandeki inkangeleko yawo yangaphandle, kuba kuncanyathiselwa amaxwebhu okupapasha iintlanganiso, yonke loo nto. Loo nto mayiphele.

La mathala awakho ezilokishini, akude. Xa ufuna incwadi kufanele uqabele isithuthi, kwaye xa ufika kuwo ufumanisa ukuba ayikho le ncwadi ubuyifuna. Kuthiwa thina bantu abantsundu asikuthandi ukufunda, kangangokuba kuthiwa xa ufuna ukuba umntu ontsundu angayazi into ethile, yibhale phantsi encwadini.

Azikho ke iincwadi ekufanele sizifunde, iincwadi ezibhalwe ngolwimi lwethu. Kaloku nababhali abasabhali ngenxa yezizathu ezithile. Siyakuthanda ukufunda, koko … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Firstly, these libraries should be kept in the most decent condition. We, members of Parliament should look at these libraries with a stern eye at those places that have them.

In the rural areas, homelands, as well as at places that used to be for black people only, referred to as townships in English, these libraries are not scarce, but they simply are not there. In fact, there was a question that was asked: What are we going to learn? What will we do with education, because we shall remain working in the houses and gardens of Whites, looking after their children and referring to them as “kleinbaas, ounooi”, and “kleinmiesies”? We shall remain being referred to as Jane, Pikinini, and Jim, without them even knowing our names, and no efforts being made to know our names.

We appeal to the Department of Arts and Culture to take note of the issue of these libraries. These libraries I am talking about are not being looked after properly by the communities. They are used as places to hold public meetings.

Another issue is that the communities render the external appearance of these libraries unattractive because they paste notices that invite people to meetings against the walls and that should come to an end.

Another point is that the libraries in the townships are far away. If you need a book you have to use transport. Also when arriving at these libraries you find that the book you need is not available. It is alleged that we African people do not like reading, as a result if you want to hide information from an African, write it down in a book.

The books that we are supposed to read, those that are written in our own languages, are not there. One should remember that the authors are no longer writing due to certain reasons. We would like to read, but …]

… our libraries are letting us down.

Ezindala ke zona iincwadi zayaphi, esasikwazi ukuzifunda kuba zazibhalwe ngeelwimi zethu? Ndithetha ngeencwadi ezifana noKufundwa Ngamava eyayibhalwe nguMinazana Dana; Phambi Kwezo Nkabi, eyayibhalwe nguGuybon Sinxo; uMandisa, njalo njalo. La mathala kufanele ukuba abe ngamafa ethu, uthi xa uthetha ngamathala eencwadi ube kanti uthetha ngezinto eziligugu kuthi, naxa uthetha ngezinto eziligugu kuthi ube kanti uthetha ngamathala eencwadi, njalo njalo.

Amathala eencwadi kufanele ukuba ibe ziindawo ongafunda kuzo ngemvelaphi yethu, iindawo zolwazi olunzulu ngamaqhawe ethu nangomzabalazo wethu. Ndithetha ngamaqhawe afana no J Dube, Albert Luthuli, Govan Mbeki noo Z K Matthews. Kodwa ngexesha lotyelelo lokuhlola inkqubela-phambili kwiindawo ngeendawo siyikomiti safika i-Sharpeville … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[What happened to the older days books that we could read, because they were written in our languages? I refer to books like one entitled: Kufundwa Ngamava by Minazana Dana, another one entitled: Phambi Kwezo Nkabi by Gybon Sinxo, another one entitled uMandisa, etc.

These libraries are supposed to be our heritage. When one talks about libraries one should be talking about things that are our pride, and when one talks about things that are our pride one should be talking about libraries, etc.

Libraries are supposed to be places where you can learn about our origin, places of high knowledge, our heroes, as well as about our struggle. I am talking about heroes like J Dube, Albert Luthuli, Govan Mbeki as well as Z S Matthews. However, during our visits to look at the progress at different areas we, as the committee found Sharpville …]

… being a hub of activity, where the elderly were also involved in dancing and telling stories to the young ones.

E-Orlando safika kukho nezixhobo zokufunda ezisetyenziswa ngabangaboniyo ukunceda isizwe ngokubanzi ukuze wonke umntu afunde … [… At Orlando we even found learning material that is being used by the blind to assist the nation in general so that every one could read.] … and most importantly to help the state discharge its cultural mandate and its obligations towards blind people.

Sikhe saya kwiziko i-Centre for the Book apha eKapa, siyikomiti yezobugcisa nenkcubeko. Sathi safumana iincwadi zamabali abantwana zibhalwe ngeelwimi zesiNtu nguSekela-Mphathiswa wezeMpilo uNozizwe Madlala-Routlege nangohloniphekileyo uDorothy Motubatse-Hounkpatin. Sithi halala kubo.

Kodwa ke ngoku bhalani iincwadi zabantwana abaminyaka isuka kweyeshumi elinesithandathu ukuya kwelishumi elinesibhozo. Sele bakhula kaloku abaya babefunda eziya nizibhalileyo. Qhubani; ngubani othe yekani? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[We also visited the Centre for the Book here in Cape Town, as the Portfolio Committee for Arts and Culture. We then discovered books of children’s stories written in African languages by the Deputy Minister of Health, Nozizwe Madlala Routledge, and also by the hon Dorothy Motubatse Hounkpatin. We salute them.

But now you should write books for children from ages 16 to 18. Those who used to read those what you wrote are now grown-ups. Proceed! Who said you should stop?]

Once more, we are afforded the opportunity today to pronounce ourselves on our ANC-led government’s commitment to ensuring accelerated improvement, reorientation and expansion of culture, arts, heritage and indigenous knowledge systems under the cherished democratic dispensation.

One instrument that would in no small measure demonstrate our commitment to the critical areas we have alluded to is certainly the library information sector. Allow me to dwell on this key priority.

As we all should know, this sector of arts and culture is often given a Cinderella status when the department unveils its strategic objectives during Budget Vote debates, and this is also often the case with all the provinces.

Andazi nokuba undivile na, Mgcinisihlalo, … [I don’t know whether you have heard me, Chairperson.]

… regarding the Cinderella status that is given to arts and culture?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Ndikuvile, Mama. [I have heard you, madam.]

Mrs N D MBOMBO: However, we are glad to inform the nation today, that our government, and by extension the Department of Arts and Culture, is committing billions of rands over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework years for the funding of the transformation of community and public libraries.

We are informed that funding is being organised to ensure efficient, transparent and targeted work in consultation with all stakeholders and role-players. This, indeed, is good news by any standard.

Kukho ithala leencwadi elikhulu elakhiwayo eTshwane. Sinethemba lokuba liza kufezekisa iimfuno zethu. [There is a big library being built in Tshwane. We hope that it will meet our needs.]

In conclusion, Chair, on the eve of the anniversary of Heritage Day, we would like to earnestly call on all South Africans, regardless of race, colour, creed and social background, to seize the moment on Sunday and celebrate with us what will mark the second celebration of the second decade of freedom.

So, while it will be time for celebrations and thanksgiving, it will also be time for renewed commitment to the vision of a better life for all. As President Mbeki always says: “All South Africans on the continent, reborn in a better world.” Ndiyabulela. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

Ms F BATYI: Chairperson, South Africa has a rich heritage that is made up of many facets. Our heritage lies in Table Mountain, bobotie and pantsula. It lies in a national anthem, “pap and vleis” and Bafana Bafana. Finally, our heritage lies in the visions of Mandela, Gandhi, De Klerk and many other leaders who have shaped this country into the wonderful tapestry of cultures it is today.

The ID embraces our rich heritage and supports all initiatives that strive to celebrate it. The celebration of our heritage plays an integral part in the deepening of democracy. It requires us to think about our own as well as other’s cultures and makes us unite under one South African culture. The ID therefore requests each and every South African to take a moment to think about where they come from and where they would like to take South Africa in the future. Our nation has been built on such visions by great leaders and the visions of patriotic South Africans can build an even greater South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr W D SPIES: Voorsitter, ek is ‘n Afrikaner en Afrikaan. My voorgeslagte bly reeds driehonderd jaar lank in Afrika. My pa was nog nooit in Europa nie; en so ook nie my oupa, sy oupa of sy oupagrootjie nie. Nogtans besluit die ANC om my as ‘n buitestaander en ‘n indringer te behandel. In die ANC se studie-dokumente word my mense as ``colonialists of a special kind’’ gebrandmerk.

Wanneer my mense aan debatte deelneem, is die gereelde tussenwerpsel uit die agterbanke: ``Go back to Europe’’. Kan ons ons erfenis so herdenk? Die VF Plus dink nie so nie. Ons is deel van Suid-Afrika, sy geskiedenis en sy erfenis. Lydenburg, Potchefstroom en Pretoria is net so deel daarvan as Mthatha, Ulundi, Mafeking of Musina. Behandel ons as mense wat deel is van Suid-Afrika. Akkommodeer ons, maar moet ons nie probeer assimileer nie. Laat u vryheid ook vir my vryheid beteken. Respekteer my geskiedenis en ek sal u s’n respekteer. En laat my erfenis met rus soos ek u s’n met rus laat. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Chairperson, I am an Afrikaner and an African. My ancestors have lived in Africa for three hundred years already. My father has never been to Europe; and also, neither have my grandfather, his grandfather nor his great-grandfather. Nevertheless the ANC decides to treat me as an outsider and an intruder. My people are branded as “colonialists of a special kind” in the ANC’s study documents.

The regular interjection from the backbenches when my people participate in debates is, “Go back to Europe”. Can we celebrate our heritage like this? The FF Plus does not think so. We are part of South Africa, its history and heritage. Lydenburg, Potchefstroom and Pretoria are just as much a part of it as Mthatha, Ulundi, Mafeking and Musina. Treat us as people who are part of South Africa. Accommodate us, but do not try to assimilate us. Let your freedom also mean freedom for me. Respect my history and I will respect yours. And leave my heritage in peace as I do yours. I thank you.]

Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson, today I ask: What makes us South African in a land of such diverse and colourful people? In the apartheid regime we were categorised as White, Black, Coloured and Indian, but it was the birth of our democracy that brought the realisation that each and every citizen shares a heritage that the racial divide cannot separate. We are a country of many languages, many beautiful cultures and traditions. Our national parks, flowers, fish, trees, flag and animals are shared by all.

Today we share a democratic South Africa that celebrates a united and equal heritage of every aspect that makes us South African. This heritage is not black, it is not white, neither is it coloured or Indian. It is the collective diversity of all our citizenry that makes us South African. Today the MF comes to the podium celebrating the contribution made by all South Africans to our heritage.

We call on the House and the public to be wary of the heritage we are to preserve for future South Africans and to make a proven heritage that shall symbolise a heroic people that paved victory from the toils of democracy, equality and unity. All our efforts to eradicate poverty and develop South Africa, a consciousness of our democracy as well as the principles and values of our Constitution, need to lead the way. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M H MATLALA: Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends… … legatong la mokgatlo o mogolo wa badimo le batho, mokgatlo wa bo Comrade O R Tambo, mokgatlo wa bo Albert Luthuli, mokgatlo wa bo Chris Hani, mokgatlo wa bo Peter Mokaba, mokgatlo wa bo Ephraim Mogale, ke a le dumediša ka leina la ANC! (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[… on behalf of the party of the people, the late Comrades O R Tambo, Albert Luthuli, Chris Hani, Peter Mokaba, Ephraim Mogale, I greet you in the name of the ANC!]

The national statutory bodies of our country aim to bring equity to heritage, promotion and conservation. Our heritage found great expression in the fauna and flora of our country. We pride ourselves on our national anthem, national flag, national coat of arms, national orders and our national symbols. We need to invest resources to teach our committees, communities and children particularly about our flag, symbols, anthem and many other historical sites. The promotion and restoration of our heritage also include preservation of our indigenous names in major cities and towns. The South African Geographical Names Council needs to speed up the publishing of all name changes to municipalities and important historical sites.

Firstly, we need to change the badly written, pronounced and corrupted names to proper African names. Makapanstad is Mokopane, Magaliesberg should be changed to Thaba tša gaMogale, Moreleta to Moretele. Secondly, we need to change names of places named after brutal colonial rulers who inflicted pain and suffering on African people in and outside South Africa. It is also correct today that we have renamed Louis Trichardt Makhado, Pietersburg Polokwane and Potgietersrus Mokopane. We must proceed as part of our heritage to rename the Johannesburg International Airport O R Tambo International Airport and the city of Potchefstroom Tlokwe. We don’t apologise!

Lastly, comrades we need to focus on the museums and libraries to have information on the origins and meanings of these important names. In reclaiming our heritage through music we wish to encourage many towns and cities to start Heritage Month celebrations and cultural festivals. We need also to encourage and congratulate municipalities that organise arts festivals because they offer visitors the opportunity to combine their pursuit of culture, sightseeing, wine-tasting, history and tourism in diverse beautiful South African towns. In Oudtshoorn, there is the annual Klein Karoo Nasionale Kunstefees for the performing arts. While it is mainly in Afrikaans it also showcases African drama, music and crafts.

The Arts Alive International Festival in Johannesburg of music, dance, drama and performance poetry has been hosted by the city since 1995. The Mapungubwe Cultural Festival in Limpopo also provides a platform to showcase the rich diverse cultures of the Bapedi, Vha Venda, Batsonga, Batlokwa and all cultural groups in the province. This annual event is an important element of reclaiming our heritage through music, history and culture. Other festivals that attract visitors at both national and international levels are Oppikoppi, Taung Calabash, the One City Festival and Music Festival in Durban.

As we celebrate heritage day on Sunday, we always strive to bring change and transformation to all heritage and cultural institutions. I thank you, Comrade Chair. [Applause.]

Ms N M MDAKA: Chairperson, hon members, it is encouraging to note that our heritage institutions are developing and nurturing the nation by preserving and honouring our past. The past is what has shaped us and has made us what we are. We need to have access to the past in order to have a clear vision for the future.

The UIF acknowledges that the heritage sector in this country has been over- represented by the museums. This is our great concern, because a significant number of museums were viewed as a social construction of Western society.

In order to proclaim our African identity through our heritage, institutions such as the SA Heritage Agency must be at the forefront of the education of the nation. It is, therefore, relevant that the living heritage unit in the heritage agency should do more to educate South Africans, in particular with regard to symbolic restoration.

We must encourage society to empathise with the experience of others in and out of our motherland. South Africans, despite the overwhelming evidence, need to be told that South Africa and Africa need to be redefined and everyone must be invited to be part of that process. I thank you.

Mna M M SWATHE: Modulasetulo, ke dumediša maloko ao a hlomphegago a Palamente, ka leina le le botse la DA. Molaotheo wa rena o bolela gore Afrika-Borwa ke naga ya badudi ka moka. O amogela gore batho ka moka ba a lekana pele ga molao. O lokiša le go amogela gore batho ba ile ba tshwenyega ka nako ya mmušo wa peleng. O amogela tokologo ya batho ka moka ba lefase la rena. O hlompha batho ka moka bao ba lwetšego, go šomela le go aga naga ya rena. Ka Letšatši la Bohwa, re keteka moletlo wa gore re bomang le gore re tšwa kae. Ke letšatši la bohwa bja rena. Ke letšatši leo le ketekwago ke batho ka moka go laetša bokgabo, ditšo, ditumelo, mmino, meaparo, dingwalwa le dipapadi ka go fapafapana ga tšona. Re rata gore batho ka moka ba keteke letšatši le ka lethabo le go amogela ditšo le ditumelo tša batho ka moka. Bohwa bja rena bo swnetše go ketekwa re le ba ditšo tšeo di fapanego, ka lethabo le tšhomišano.

Batho ba bangwe ba hlaloša gore bohwa ke taba ya go sepela ka thlago le matswalo goba go amogela go tšwa go batswadi bao ba phetšego pele le maetemogelo le ditiragalo tša kgale. Go keteka Letšatši la Bohwa, e swanetše go ba taba ya go amogela merafe ya Afrika-Borwa ka moka. Re swanetše go hlompha le go amogela phapano ya ditumelo, ditšo, polelo, dijo le lefase leo re dulago go lona. Bohwa bja rena ke lehumo la setšhaba ka bophara, e sego morafe o itšego. Koša ya Setšhaba le dipolelo tša yona ka go fapafapana di dira gore koša ye e be bose le gore e amogelege go badudi ka moka ba Afrika-Borwa. Re swanetše go dira tšohle mo matleng a rena go tsenya kgopolo ya go amogelana le go amogela thôtô ya setšhaba. Se se tla dira gore bokamoso bja setšhaba sa ka moso bo phadime.

A re amogeleng ditšo tše fapanego. A re šomišeng letšatši le go thekgana, go aga setšhaba se tee sa go phela ka khutšo le tšwelopele. Afrika-Borwa ke ya batho ka moka le makokokoko a yona. DA e lakaletša batho bohle bao ba tla bego ba keteka meletlo mahlatse le mahlogonolo. Gomme re le ba DA, re re re rata go bona batho ka moka ba šomiša sebaka se go swarana ka matsogo go tšwetša pele ditšo tša bona ka go fapafapana ka ge ka moka re la Maafrika-Borwa. Re rata go bontšha re le ba DA gore naga ye re a e rata, ke naga ya rena. Re rata gore batho ka moka ba kgone go bona gore naga ye ke ya batho ba mebala ka moka. Ke a leboga. [Nako e fedile.] [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi speech follows.)

[Mr M M SWATHE: Chairperson, I greet the hon Members of Parliament in the great name of the DA. Our Constitution states that South Africa belongs to all its citizens. It acknowledges that all people are equal before the law. It also acknowledges that people have suffered a lot under the previous regime and seeks to redress that. It acknowledges freedom for all the people in our country. It respects all the people who fought, worked for as well as built our country.

On Heritage Day we celebrate who we are and where we come from. It is a day celebrated by all the people to exhibit their art, cultures, beliefs, music, dress, literature and the various recreational activities. We would like everyone to celebrate this day in happiness and also embrace all other people’s cultures and beliefs. We should happily celebrate our heritage as people of diverse cultures co-operating with each other.

Some people define heritage as a natural or birth-related issue or to get an ancestral understanding through past experiences and history. Celebrating Heritage Day should be about embracing all South African races. We have to respect and acknowledge our differences in beliefs, cultures, languages, food and the areas in which we live. Our heritage is the whole nation’s wealth and not for a particular race alone. The national anthem comprises diverse languages making it enjoyable and acceptable to all the citizens of South Africa. We must do everything in our power to encourage people to embrace each other and embrace this as our national asset. This will brighten the future of the forthcoming generation.

Let us embrace the different cultures. Let us take advantage of this day to support one another and to build one peaceful and prosperous nation. South Africa belongs to all the people and its different parties. The DA wishes peace and prosperity to all the people who will be celebrating these events. We would like to see all the people taking advantage of this opportunity to hold hands and to promote their diverse cultures as we are all South Africans. We will also like to show that we love this country. It is our own country, after all. We want everyone to be aware that this country belongs to people from diverse racial groups. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mnu M R SONTO: Mhlalingaphambili, malungu abekekileyo ale Ndlu yoWiso- mthetho, mandinibhotise ngale mvakwemini. Ndiyafuna ukuyicinezela into yokuba uKhongolozi akathatheli kuye wonke umsebenzi, koko into ayenzayo kukukhomba indlela, nto leyo engumsebenzi wethu. Abantu mabangoyiki ukukhonjiswa indlela.

Kambe umhla esiwubhiyozelayo ngowama-24 kule yoMsintsi kowama-2006. Namhlanje into esiyenzayo siyanqoma, sigabula izigcawu, ukwenzela ukuba mhla ngezipheko wonke umntu abe ewazi umcimbi. Intsusa-mabandla ke ithi izazi zithi xa ufuna ukucima umntu kwimbali, menze atyeshele imvelaphi yakhe, izithethe namasiko akhe kwakunye nolwimi aluthethayo.

Ilunda esinalo xa siqingqe kule ndawo namhlanje lelokuba bawa phantsi bezama ababefuna ukuba silahle iilwimi, amasiko kunye nezithethe zethu. Umhla weqhayiya lemveli siwuqaphela ngokuzingca kwethu ngobumbejembeje bamasiko neenkcubeko zethu ezahlukileyo. Sahlukile nje, kodwa siyazi ukuba singoobani yaye singamani.

Akukho namnye umntu apha kule Ndlu onokuyiphikisa into yokuba noxa sibanye njengesizwe, sahlukene ngezithethe, inkcubeko namasiko. Inkolo yobuntu eAfrika yeyokuba umntu ngumntu ngabantu. Mazi ummelwane wakho. Yile nto namhlanje sinemvuselelo karhulumente ethi, Batho Pele ngesiSuthu.

Intsusa-mabandla eyintlungu yeyokuba ubuntu bethu eAfrika esezantsi bakhukuliswa baze banyhashwa yimpatho-mbi yamaNgesi, nawayebona izithethe namasiko aseAfrika njengasemva nangenabuntu. Ufake ityuwa enxebeni umbuso wamaBhulu wenza abamhlophe bacinge ukuba bangabantu bodwa, batshintsha yonke into bayithiya ngamaqhawe abo ocalucalulo, basenzela oonomgogwana, benza ukuba sithethe iilwimi zabo kodwa bengafuni ukuzithetha ezethu.

Bathi abantu: “Kwanele!”, sawuqinisa ke ngoko umzabalazo wokulwela isidima sabantu. Yile nto ke namhlanje sithetha ngeqhayiya lemveli.

Iqhayiya lethu lemveli elityebileyo nelahlukileyo ngokobuntu bethu, linamandla anokwakha isizwe ukuba besinokuncedisana sisonke. Luphina uncwadi lwethu, bantu? Yayaphi na imibongo nemibengo? Zayaphi na iintsomi? Uphi umculo nomngqungqo wesiNtu?

Ewe, siyazi ukuba umculo wethu yintlanganisela yeentlobo ezahlukeneyo, kwaye intlantsi ekhoyo yomculo yenkcenkceshelwe ngumonde wombuso lo uphetheyo nowamanxila eengoma asashiyekileyo. Masiqhube ke ngoko senze ukuba umculo wethu wonwabise, uthandeke kwaye ube nengeniso kwimilonji nemilonjikazi.

Eli thuba lenziwe yinkqubo yokukhula ngokukhawuleza kophuhliso ekhokelwa nguSekela-Mongameli. Le nkqubo mayisenze sakhe isizwe ngomculo.

Mhlalingaphambili, xa kuvuywa kwaNtu kuyaculwa; xa kukhonzwa kuyaculwa; xa kufiwe kuyaculwa; xa kusiyiwa edabini kwaNtu kuyaculwa; kanti naxa kuthandanwa kuyaculwa. Koko kucula ngolwimi lwakho ke okugqithisa umyalezo kwabanye abantu.

Sisuka kwimbali apho amaNgesi namaBhulu ayephethe umbuso ngaphambili ayengazifuni ezethu iingoma kuba esithi azinazo iinothi. Siyakhumbula ukuba imarabi yeminyaka ye-1930 yile isivezele ooHugh Masekela kunye nabanye, izikhulu zomngqungqo. Ngamaqhawe ethu ke lawo kumngqungo apha eMzantsi Afrika. Kwaye ndinqwenela ukuba loo ntlantsi ingacimi kweli.

Iingoma zamihla ngedabi lenkululeko mazingapheli. Umculo wamaBhulu kwakunye nombhaqanga mawuhlale uhlaziyekile kuba le yimiculo yaseAfrika, ngakumbi ngeli xesha lale mibhiyozo. Yile miculo eyabonakalisa ukuba kwiyantlukwano yethu simanyene kanjani sisisizwe saseMzantsi Afrika.

Xa sigxininisa kumongo wokubhiyoza kwethu othi masiphuthume imvelaphi yethu nobuthina kunye neqhayiya lemveli, siya kube siqhawula amakhonkco obukhoboka amiliselwa kuthi yiminyaka ngeminyaka yengcinezelo.

Phambi kokuba ndihlabe ikhwelo, ndifuna ukuthi iyavuyisa into yokuba sibe sithetha ulwimi olunye namhlanje. Eyona nto isenza ukuba sizazi njengabantu boMzantsi Afrika yiyantlukwano esinayo, kukumanyana sahlukene nje. Ngelishwa, ilungu elibekekileyo uBhici alikho. Kwilungu elibekekileyo uSpies ndingathanda ukuthi, wonke umntu walapha eMzantsi Afrika ungowalaph’ ekhaya kwaye makaziphathe njengomntu walapha. Ukuba akaziphathi njengomntu walapha, siza kumkrokrela ukuba ngumgqakhwe.

Ukubangaba ungowaseAfrika, ziphathe njengomAfrika, siza kukuwola ngezandla zobubele. Kodwa ukubangaba uneengqondo zaseYurophu, siza kukuthumela eYurophu.

Ndifuna ke ngoko ukuba ndihlabe ikhwelo kuthi sonke babandakanyekayo kulo msebenzi wokubhiyozela lo mhla weqhayiya lethu lemveli, ukuba siwupholele umculo walapha ekhaya, noya kuthi udlalwe kule mibhiyozo.

Masenze imithetho eza kuqinisa, ikhuthaze iimvumi zomthonyama zazi ukuba ukucula yimpangelo eyonwabisa abantu nekungqiyanywe ngayo nelilinge lokwakha isizwe. Singazibona izakhono zoonyana neentombi zethu ezifihlwe yintswelangqesho apha ekhaya nakwilizwe ngokubanzi. Oku sikwenzela ingomso eliqaqambileyo, elethu kwakunye nelesizalo sethu. Masihambe ke ngoko siye kubhiyozela umhla wethu weqhayiya lemveli. Ndiyabulela, Mhlalingaphambili. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

[Mr M R SONTO: Chairperson, Hon members of the National Assembly, let me greet you this afternoon. I want to stress that the ANC is not monopolising the work, instead it is leading, which is our duty. People must not be afraid to be led. In fact, we are celebrating the 24th September 2006. Today we are taking the first taste, doing an introduction, so that when everything is ready everybody will be aware about what is going on. The original belief of the wise says if you want to wipe out a people’s history, make them disconnect themselves from their roots, their customs and traditions and the language they speak.

The pride we have when we stand here today is testimony to the fact that those who wanted us to neglect our languages, customs and traditions have failed. We commemorate Heritage Day by being proud of our diverse cultures. Diverse as we are, we know who we are and what our roots are.

Nobody in this House can deny the fact that we are united as a nation but have diverse cultures, customs and traditions. The African belief about humanity is that a person is a person through other people. Know your neighbour. That is why we have the government’s revival principle that says Batho Pele, People First, in Sesotho.

A painful reason for this is that our humanity in Southern Africa was wiped out and undermined by the ill-treatment by the British, who regarded African customs and traditions as backward and inhuman. The Boer regime rubbed salt into the wounds, making whites think that they were superior to other people and they changed everything, naming things after their apartheid heroes. They established homelands for us, forcing us to speak their languages while they had no interest in learning ours.

People said: “Enough!” We then intensified the struggle for people’s dignity. That is why today we talk about heritage. Our rich and diverse heritage which reflects our society, has the power to build a nation if we can all join hands together. People, where is our literature? Where are our traditional praise poems and short stories? Where are the folktales? Where is African traditional music and rhythm?

We know that our music is a mixture of different genres, the present spark of music has been nurtured by the zeal of the state and the remaining music lovers. Let us continue to make our music enjoyable, to be appreciated and generate an income for our musicians.

This opportunity is created by the Asgisa programme led by Deputy President. This programme must encourage us to build the country through music.

Chairperson, according to African culture when we celebrate, we sing; when we worship, we sing; when there is a funeral, we sing; when we go to war, we sing; and even when we are in love, we sing. By singing in your own language you convey a message to other people.

We come from the past where the Boers and British were in power, previously they rejected our songs saying they did not have notes. We remember that the marabi music of the 1930’s produced Hugh Masekela and others, well- known stars of jazz music. Those are our stars of jazz music in South Africa. I wish that spark will not die out in this country.

Songs of the days of the liberation struggle must be retained. Boeremusiek, Afrikaans folk music, and traditional music must be revived because these are genres of African music, especially at the time of these celebrations. It is these music genres that have shown how united we are in our diversity as a nation in South Africa.

When we stress the gist of our celebration which says, let us bring back our heritage, our identity, we will be unlocking the chains of slavery inculcated in us by the legacy of oppression.

Before I make an appeal, it is a pleasure to notice that we speak one language. What makes us aware of our identity as people of South Africa is our diversity; it is to be united in our diversity. Unfortunately hon Bici is not here. To hon Spies I want to say, everybody here in South Africa belongs here and must behave accordingly. If he does not behave as it is required we will suspect that he is a foreigner. If you are an African behave like an African and we will welcome you with open arms. If you have a European mindset we will send you back to Europe.

I want to appeal to us all who are involved in this activity of celebrating our heritage to enjoy our traditional music that will be played at the celebrations.

Let us pass laws that will empower and encourage our traditional musicians to realise that singing is an employment opportunity that brings pleasure to people, on which we depend, and an initiative towards nation-building. We can identify the talents of our sons and daughters that are hidden by unemployment in the community and the country at large. We are doing this for a better future for ourselves and the coming generations. Let us go and celebrate our heritage day. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 17:18. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Referral of Bills to National House of Traditional Leaders:

The Secretary to Parliament has, in accordance with section 18(1) of
the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act, 2003 (Act No.
41 of 2003), referred the Children’s Amendment Bill [B 19 – 2006]
(National Council of Provinces – sec 76) to the National House of
Traditional Leaders, which must, within 30 days from the date of this
referral, make any comments it wishes to make.

1. Translations of Bills submitted (1) The Minister of Communications

   a) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Posdienste [W 22 – 2006] (Nasionale
      Vergadering – art 75)
   

   This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Postal Services Amendment Bill [B 22 – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75).

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Submission of Private Members’ Legislative Proposals

   (1) The following private member’s legislative proposal was submitted to the Speaker on 22 September 2006, in accordance with Rule 234:

     (a)  Lotteries Amendment Bill (Mr L B Labuschagne)
   
     In accordance with Rule 235 the legislative proposal has been    referred to the Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative    Proposals and Special Petitions.
   

2. Referral of Bills to Committees

   (1) The Civil Union Bill [B 26 – 2006], introduced on 12 September 2006, is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs for consideration and report.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

   a) The Budget and Strategic Plan of the Auditor-General for 2006-2007 [RP 215-2006].

 b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 2 – Parliament for 2005-
    2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
    Statements of Vote 2 for 2005-2006 [RP 222-2006].


 c) The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the
    National Council of Provinces, as co-chairpersons of the Joint
    Rules Committee, present the First Report of the Joint Rules
    Committee for 2006, dated 24 March 2006, as follows:

CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - insert T060921e-insert1 – PAGES 2085-2086

1. The Minister of Finance

 a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 8 – National Treasury for
    2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
    Financial Statements of Vote 8 for 2005-2006 [RP 128-2006].

 b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Revenue
    Service (SARS) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-
    General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 167-2006].


 c) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 13 – Statistics South
    Africa for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General
    on the Financial Statements of Vote 13 for 2005-2006 [RP 57-2006].


 d) Report and Financial Statements of the Development Bank of Southern
    Africa Limited for 2005-2006, including the Report of the
    Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006.


 e) Activities Report of the Development Fund of the Development Bank
    of Southern Africa Limited for 2005-2006.

1. The Minister of Transport

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Roads Agency Limited (SANRAL) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 144-2006].

   b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Rail Commuter Corporation Limited (SARRC) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 155-2006].

   c) Report of the Regulating Committee of the Airports Company of South Africa and Air Navigation Services Company for 2005-2006.

   d) Report and Financial Statements of the Cross-Border Road Transport Agency (C-BRTA) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 126-2006].

   e) Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and Navigation Services Company Limited (ATNS) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005- 2006.

   f) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Maritime Safety Authority (SAMSA) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements (including the Maritime Fund) for 2005-2006 [RP 110-2006].

   g) Report and Financial Statements of the Railway Safety Regulator (RSR) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 200-2006].

   h) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Search and Rescue Organisation (SASAR) for 2005-2006.

2. The Minister of Social Development

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 18 – Department of Social Development for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements of Vote 18 for 2005-2006 [RP 208-2006].

3. The Minister of Correctional Services

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 20 – Department of Correctional Services for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 20 for 2005- 2006 [RP 206-2006].

4. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

 a) Proclamation No R.25 published in Government Gazette No 28973 dated
    27 June 2006: Commencement of the Regulation of Interception of
    Communications and Provision of Communication-related Information
    Act, 2002 (Act No 70 of 2002) Amendment and Repeal of
    Proclamations.


 b) Proclamation No R.33 published in Government Gazette No 29115 dated
    11 August 2006: Referral of Matters to Existing Special
    Investigating Unit and Special Tribunal, in terms of the Special
    Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of
    1996).

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs a) Report and Financial Statements of the Perishable Products Export Control Board (PPECB) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006.

National Assembly

1. The Speaker

 a) Request for approval by the National Assembly of the exclusion of
    the remainder of Portion 1 of the Farm Henderson 410 from the Addo
    Elephant Park in terms of section 21(1)(a) of the National
    Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (No 57 of
    2003).


 b) Explanatory memorandum on the proposed exclusion of the remainder
    of Portion 1 of Farm Henderson 410 from the Addo Elephant Park in
    terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas
    Act, 2003 (No 57 of 2003).


    Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and
    Tourism for consideration and report.

 c) Response from Ingonyama Trust Board to the First Report of the
    Standing Committee on Public Accounts on the Ingonyama Trust Board,
    as adopted by the House on 20 June 2006.

    Referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA

REPORT OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS’ INTERESTS ON THE INVESTIGATION REGARDING THE ALLEGED NON_DISCLOSURE BY MR DAA OLIFANT MP. 12 SEPTEMBER 2006.

Background

On the 19 July 2006, Mr LB Labuschagne MP submitted to the Chairperson of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members Interests a request that the Committee investigate the alleged non-disclosure by Mr DAA Olifant of interests in: a) Atlantis Education Development Trust, b) Quantum Leap and c) Global Dynamix,

In his letter he also requested that the Committee follow the Court Proceedings with regard to MAN Ferrostaal and Mr Olifant, and pointed out that the Committee should be mindful of the fact that Mr Olifant was facing charges on the misuse of the travel vouchers.

Investigation. Mr Olifant disclosed his interests in Atlantis Educational Development Trust. Refer to 2005 and 2006 disclosure. Global Dynamix is not registered at CIPRO but was disclosed by Mr Olifant in 2005, He did not disclose Quantum Leap.

In his 2006 disclosure dated 5 June 2006, Mr Olifant disclosed his interests in Quantum Leap but not Global Dynamix.

In Mr Olifant’s letter of explanation to the Registrar, he states that Global Dynamix is the trading name of Quantum Leap. He further explains that these companies are one entity. He also explains that Atlantis Economic Development Trust (AEDT) was a 61% equity partner in Quantum Leap 746 trading as Global Dynamix.

In support of his response, Mr Olifant submitted correspondence from Levandal and Associates, the Auditors for Quantum Leap, confirm Mr Olifant’s response that Quantum Leap Investments traded as Global Dynamix.

The Auditor also submitted a copy of the company letterhead as further proof that Quantum Leap traded as Global Dynamix, Finding With regard to the allegations of non- disclosure, of

a) Atlantis Education Development Trust, b) Quantum Leap and c) Global Dynamix,

The Committee finds that Mr Olifant has disclosed his interests in these entities ; and therefore there is no breach of the Code.

On the matter of the court case between MAN Ferrostaal and Mr Olifant as well as the case concerning the alleged misuse of travel vouchers, these are outside the mandate of the Committee. As in any other case, if there is information pertaining to any breach of the Code, the Committee will consider it in terms of the Joint Rules of Parliament.

The Committee also expressed concern with the tone and manner in which Mr Labuchagne put forward his complaint. The Committee is of the view that while Mr Labuschagne is within his rights to lodge a complaint, however they believe that the tone and content of the correspondence undermines the integrity of the Member.

The Committee suggests that Mr Labuschagne apologise to Mr Olifant .

This report is tabled for consideration.

Chairperson of Joint Committee 12 September 2006 on Ethics and Members’ Interests.

National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Corporate Laws Amendment Bill [B 6B - 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 20 September 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the subject of the Corporate Laws Amendment Bill [6B – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has passed the Bill with amendments [B 6C – 2006].

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the Filling of Vacancies on the Council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, dated 21 September 2006.

The Portfolio Committee on Communications, having considered the
recommendation by the Minister of Communications to appoint the
following persons to serve on the Council in terms of section 5 of the
Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Act, 2000 (Act No
13 of 2000, as amended), recommends that the National Assembly approves
the appointment of the following candidates to the Council:

Dr AJ Barendse, Ms M Mohlala, Mr R Nkuna, Ms B Ntombela and Prof JC
Rooyen.
Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Housing on the Annual Report of the Department of Housing and its entities 2004/2005, dated 20 September 2006:

The Portfolio Committee on Housing, having considered and examined
the Annual Reports of the Department of Housing and Thubelisha
Homes, Social Housing Foundation (SHF), Peoples Housing Partnership
Trust (PHPT), Rural Housing Loan Fund (RHLF), and the National
Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency (NURCHA) as well as
Financial Statements, referred to it, reports that it has concluded
its deliberations thereon.


Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on International Study Tour to Brazillia and Sao-Paulo dated 19 September 2006:

2. Introduction and background

The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism having undertaken an International Study to Brazil and Sao Paulo from 14 to 25 April 2006, reports to Parliament as follows:

On the 15 November 2005, the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, under the Chairpersonship of Mr L Zita, took a decision to undertake an international study tour to Brazil during the first term of parliamentary period to learn about the aspects of Brazil’s environmental issues that are most relevant to the South African context and oversight function of Brazilian Parliament. Because of the preparation for local government election, the study tour was undertaken during the constituency period from the 14 –25 April 2006.

1. Objectives

The main objectives of the visit were to learn about the following issues:

1. Environmental and biodiversity programmes;
2. Management of marine and coastal development;
3. Mechanisms and strategies on climate change and air pollution prevention;
4. Implementation of Kyoto Protocol;
5. Implementation of waste management policy and programmes, Eco-tourism and sustainable development; and

6. Oversight role of the Brazilian Parliament on matters related to environment and tourism.

7. Delegation

A multi- party delegation of the Portfolio Committee under the leadership of Chairperson, Mr L Zita, (ANC) included Mr DAA Olifant (ANC); Ms R Ndzanga (ANC); Mr M Swart (DA); and Ms C Zikalala (IFP). The delegation was accompanied by the support staff, Mr T M Manele (Committee Secretary) and Dr F Khan (Committee Researcher).

1. Overview of the study tour

The delegation had formal meetings with the Acting Head of the Mission, Executive Secretary of Ministry of Environment and visits to National Parks, Institute of Environmental and Renewal Natural Research, Natural Center for Prevention and Fight against Forest Fires, Center of Remote Sensoring, Natural Center of Research, Protect and Handling of Carves, National Parks and tours to the city and in informal settlement.

The interaction with the Ministry and departments provided a platform for exploring how Brazil was affected by air pollution, strategies put in place to minimize air pollution and climate change, promotion of forest protection, renewable energy technology, state of aqua- culture and mari- culture, domestic marine poaching problems and challenges related to coastal development, urbanization and congestion.

1. Meeting with Executive Secretary to the Ministry of Environment

The Secretary informed the delegation that Brazilian environmental policy has been undergoing development for over three decades. Its first institutional landmark occurred in 1973, when Brazil created its first Environmental Management Body, within the Presidency of the Republic.

After a period marked by government command and control actions and by initiatives of the fledging organized civil society, in 1981 the National Environment Policy and system were established, together with the National Environmental Council to seek the participation of civil society entities.

As a way to boost the sustainable use of forests and combat public land deforestation, the delegation was informed that the Ministry of Environment has drafted a Bill for Public Forest Management sanctioned by the President on March 3rd 2006. This law establishes the rules for the sustainable use of public forests and it also created the Brazilian forest service and the national fund for forest development.

This new legislation defines three forms of public forest management for sustainable production:

a) the creation of protected areas for sustainable use, such as national forest; b) destination for community use such as extractive reserves; and c) forest concession contracts based on public bid processes and with payment for the exploration of forest products and services.

The progress made in respect of biodiversity, the delegation was further informed that the Minister of Environment in partnership with the Ministry of Agrarian Development have implemented 11 Centers for Agro-biodiversity management which included the benefits of 5 thousand family farmers settled by the land reform, training of farmers and technicians on sustainable use of agro-biodiversity. The concern about the release of genetically modified organisms to the environment has led the Ministry of Environment to hold four capacity building workshops on GMO bio safety, involving approximately 200 inspectors, researchers, teachers and farmers.

Some of the major biodiversity programmes reported during the briefing included the review of official list and launching of a book of endangered Brazilian Fauna, listing 663 species, organization of symposium on alien invasive species which had participation of seven countries in order to improve the management of the use of aquatic biodiversity, development of the project on integrated management of aquatic biodiversity, collection of data on current status on biomes and, the launching of first edition of the Atlas on Coral Reefs in Brazilian Protected Areas.

In order to lower the biodiversity loss, the Ministry of Environment has established national plan for protected areas. The main objectives of this plan is to establish by 2015 a broad system of protected areas which are ecologically representative and effectively managed in order to ensure access as well as fair and equitable sharing of costs and benefits stemming from conservation measures. Its main goal is to maintain a focus on the national system of protected areas, indigenous lands and lands of the descendents of former slaves and the creation and consolidation of areas with international recognition such as the Biosphere Reserves and the Natural World Heritage Sites.

Some of the policy development reported to date relate to the drafting of policy on protection, conservation, recovery and sustainable use of biodiversity in indigenous lands by the inter-ministerial group comprised of representatives from the Ministry of Environment, members from Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Research and, indigenous organizations.

On the projects that are currently in place, the delegation was further informed that efforts to improve the quality of water, particularly in the Brazilian semi-arid region, have resulted in the development of projects such as combating deforestation, freshwater, and the program to cleanup river basins. Throughout the country, the government is protecting more than 15 million hectares of public lands by establishing protected areas. The government has also invested in number of projects such as clean up technology, deforestation, marine and coastal management, biodiversity conservation and management, environmental quality and territorial management. Though coordination is at the National Congress and Water Resource Council, the Government has over the past three years approved a set of rules, resolutions and laws that established new regulatory framework and procedures to regulate the activities that endanger the environment.

In the international arena, the actions of the Ministry of Environment to implement multilateral environmental agreements have been noteworthy, particularly with reference to the biological diversity, climate change and desertification conventions, the commission on sustainable development, the United Nations forum on forests and agreements relating to chemical safety.

1. National Parks

The delegation undertook the on-site visit to Chapada Dos Veadeiros National Park located 260 km far from Brasilia. The delegation learnt that partnership with communities adjacent to the park has been established to promote job creation through the training of locals as tour guides. The other lesson the delegation learnt was the promotion of local communities to become entrepreneurs in tourisms restaurants, crafts and curios.

The second on-site visit was conducted at Brazil’s National Park. This National Park was created on November 29, 1961 by federal decree 241, and its purpose is the protection of wild areas of biological, scenic, cultural, educational and recreational relevance. In spite of being an urban park and being subject to severe pressure by human action on its 117 km perimeter and on its interior, the park houses animals and plants typical of the Brazilian savannah.

The park houses a great variety of animal life such as anteaters, tapirs, manned wolves, foxes, wild cats and jaguars. In addition to the animals, some birds such as woodpeckers, Brazilian sparrows and hawks are also kept. Reptiles such as lizards, alligators, rattlesnakes and coral snakes are also present, as well as amphibians. The Park has also created an environmental education programme that provides activities to cater for the public in general and for the park’s personnel. The courses offered to teachers and the community, are based on the theoretical information and interdisciplinary practices. The park possesses a state –of the art management plan and is the heart of the subject for research on various fields of environmental studies.

1. Overview of the Institute of Environmental and Renewable Natural Research

This Brazilian Institute of Environmental and Renewable Natural Research is responsible for the licensing of large polluting potential projects, nuclear activities and the exploration of deep-water petroleum and gas. Through its scientific and technological innovations, the institute has developed and updated a system for reading geo-referenced data on the Amazons forest. This technological innovation and adoption has enabled the institute to delimit with precision deforested areas and to assess the incidence of fire, deforestation, irregular mining activities and invasions.

The institute has established twenty- one specialized centres to carry out studies, technical and scientific research and to provide information on public policies. During the visit, the delegation had an opportunity to visit specialized centres in the areas of environmental information, marine and estuarine fishing, forest management, remote sensing, prevention and control of forest fires that rely on scientific efforts of nationally and internationally renowned researchers. In addition to the above specialized centres, other centres visited included national centre for the prevention and fight against forest fires, centre for orchids, ornamental, medicinal and aromatic plants, national center of research, protection and handling of caves and, laboratory of forest products.

Some of the environmental management lessons learnt during the visit on specialized centres of the above-mentioned Brazilian Institute of Environmental and Renewable Natural Research included; the use of research findings to develop strategies related to forest fire fighting and control, development of guide for environmental licensing of petroleum exploration activities, environmental impact studies of the infrastructure projects, development of information system on environmental licensing which works through the internet warranting better organization of the internal administrative routines and higher transparency of the process.

1. City Tour in Sao Paulo

On the 24 of April 2006, the delegation had a city tour in Sao Paulo, one of the third largest city in the world with 16 million inhabitants. The main objectives of the city tour were to expose the delegation the dynamics of urbanization, informal settlement and traffic congestion and control. The delegation also had an opportunity to visit and observe tourists attraction places such as municipal market, theatre, and metropolitan cathedral and mark zero.

The tour included driving through the poor and under-developed areas and outskirts of Sao Paulo. The delegation also travelled along the Avenida Paulista, the heart of the city and experiencing traffic congestion and also touches the industrial area of Santo Amaro during peak hours.

1. Conclusion

No draft programme was received in advance of the study tour. The programme was only received when the delegation arrived in Brasilia. As a result, no additions or changes could be made to the programme, such as a meeting with Members of Congress (the Brazilian Parliament).

The programme only covered three days due to the difficulty of arranging appointments during a week cut short by Easter Monday and a Brazilian national holiday on Friday (21 April).

However, since this information was imparted to the delegation only on arrival and the first formal meeting at the South African Embassy was only held on Tuesday (18 April), this was the earliest opportunity to make changes to the programme. Since it did not appear possible to extend the programme in Brasilia, it was decided to continue the tour in Sao Paulo on 21 April, after the conclusion of the programme in Brasilia.

Due to the short notice, Embassy officials in Sao Paulo were unable to arrange appointments with local or State (provincial) officials. Instead, two tours (led by tour guides) focusing on the problems posed by urbanization, industrialization and coastal development were arranged. While these tours were interesting and certainly served to highlight some of the developmental challenges faced by Brazil, the value of the tours was limited since no officials were available to answer questions or offer additional information.

1. Recommendations

Having undertaken an international study tour to Brazil, the Committee recommends as follows:

a) The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism must during the 2006 third term of parliamentary period come and brief the committee on India- Brazil and South Africa Agreement and progress made in respect of project on environment and tourism;

b) The Department of Foreign Affairs must in future ensure that proper systems are put in place to facilitate coordination of international visits in accordance with the objectives of the parliamentary committee; and

c) In future, the Office of the Mission, should have veto right to advice the Parliamentary Committees not to proceed with envisage study tour if all logistical arrangements in terms of the objectives are not properly arranged.

Report to be considered.