THURSDAY, 1 JUNE 2006 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at 14:01.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander: Tswetswe, tseyang madulo a lona. [You may take your seats.] We wish to welcome our national Minister for the Public Service and Administration in this House today, hon Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi. Hon Minister, feel free to be with us today. Thank you.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 10 – Public Service and Administration:

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon members of this august House, those persons on the gallery, the Chairperson of the Public Service Commission, in his first state of the nation address in 1999, President Mbeki, when he initially introduced the imagery of the new era of hope, touched on many issues that fall within the portfolio of Public Service and Administration. These included the commitment of government to construct a people-centred society; the commitment of government to entrench a strong sense of ethics; the commitment of government to work in a close partnership with all our people; the need to strengthen professional competence and effectiveness in the key branches of the Public Service, specifically by revisiting the human resource development programmes, the need to strengthen co-ordination and co-operation between the different government agencies; and the inculcation of the principles of Batho Pele. These continue to inform the work of the Public Service and Administration portfolio.

The opportunity of the Budget Vote allows the executive arm of government to come to the people’s representatives to report on our progress made thus far, but also to spell out how we see the road ahead. I can today relate with the painter Vincent van Gogh, in terms of his perspectives around progress. He said: “Making progress is like a minus work. It doesn’t advance as quickly as one would like and also as others expect. But faced with such a task, patience and faithfulness are essential. In fact, I don’t think much about the difficulties because if one thought of them too much, one would get dazed or confused.”

As you will see from the programme we report against, the span of the responsibility of this team is wide and as a truly transversal portfolio, our efforts affect the entire Public Service, but also goes wider. It is instrumental in giving effect to how we see the state of South Africa in the second decade of democratic rule. It is critical how the state functions. It affects the legitimacy with which the population regards the state. And therefore, it is necessary, as Minister for the Public Service and Administration, that I speak on issues that go well beyond the scope of personal matters. And that is why you would have heard me taking a very firm position yesterday on the issue of the current debate around too much concentration of power in the centre of this government and the tendency to attribute certain features of the constitutional structures that we have embraced, all of a sudden, to the persona of the President.

The team I represent here today is constituted by the Department of Public Service and Administration, the South African Management Development Institute, the Centre for Public Service Innovation, the State Information Technology Agency, the Public Service Education and Training Authority and last but not least – and most importantly standing in a different relationship, that of the oversight body – the Public Service Commission. Now given the time constraints of the actual speaking time that I have, I would rely on the fact that you have a copy – a full printed version of the speech available and I would highlight a few issues that I think are of particular interest in the provincial and local context, and make some more strategic points.

This year we celebrate the 10th anniversary of the coming into being of our Constitution. Our Constitution is recognised internationally as one of the most profound and progressive constitutions ever crafted. The question remains, however, whether we fully appreciate the content of what is captured in our Constitution; whether we manage fully to give effect to the intentions of the Constitution; and most telling, whether we even know and understand the content of this Constitution.

Very few countries can boast the fact that their constitution is such a carefully crafted system of checks and balances. And certainly, as South Africans, we would argue that this is a first for us. We have created an intricate system of multiple centres of power that serves as counterweights protecting against autocracy and creating a setting within which real democracy can flourish. Through the Constitution, we have opened our system of government to allow our people to participate in the policy process.

We have crafted a Bill of Rights that provides protection for our people against abuse, but more so it bestows some positive rights that each and everyone is entitled to based on the fact that they are people, and in the final instance we have created a Constitutional Court that can deliver judgment on whether or not we keep to the Constitution and it can demand that actions be rectified.

In the biggest scheme of state and society created by the Constitution, public administration is a small part. But the Constitution does not neglect to prescribe how we should operate, more specifically in Chapter

1. But also very relevant is Chapter 3, that discusses the issue of co- operative governance, and this is what I would want to focus on very quickly.

By now you are fully aware of the fact that we intend to introduce new framework legislation in Parliament during 2007 to give effect to the notion of a single Public Service. The objectives of the framework legislation are, inter alia, to create a common culture of service delivery; to establish and strengthen intergovernmental relations; to achieve more coherent integrated planning, budgeting, implementation, monitoring and evaluation within a single Public Service in general, and specifically in relation to joint programmes; to create a single senior management service cadre with appointment to the service rather than the post, facilitating the mobility of these managers within the single Public Service – that’s across the three spheres of government; to provide a uniform framework of remuneration and conditions of service; to establish uniform norms and standards for employment in the single Public Service; and to provide a mechanism for the transfer of functions and staff between institutions in spheres of government within the framework provided by the Constitution and the Labour Relations Act.

Now, clearly this line of our work is very threatening and unnerving to some. Yesterday, the bogeyman jumped up in the National Assembly – I’m sure they won’t do so in the NCOP. With these detailed comprehensive explanations I’ve given, I’m sure nobody would have a question.

To allay fears of this being another attempt to curtail democracy, I would like to state, for the record, that the single Public Service initiative would be developed within the framework of the Constitution and its determination on the principles of co-operative governance and intergovernmental relations. Amongst others, these are that we would not assume powers or functions that were not bestowed on us by the Constitution.

After all, we are the custodians of the Constitution and we understand that if there’s a need, then we will amend the Constitution, but we will not simply assume powers or functions that are not bestowed on us. We will exercise our powers and perform our functions in a manner that does not encroach on the geographical, functional or institutional integrity of government in another sphere, and that we will co-operate with one another in mutual trust and good faith, specifically with respect to this last point.

We see the motivation for the single Public Service partially in exactly that relationship of mutual trust and good faith, part of which the Constitution determines, that we should assist and support one another.

The fact that many of our local authorities are in need of assistance and support if they are to play the role that development requires from them, is on public record. As a matter of fact, the term “dire need” has been used as well. We believe that by creating a system in which there is greater mobility of capacity across it, where much of the norms, policy frameworks and guidelines are standardised at national level, and merely filtered down where our optimal mass of practice are standardised and integrated across the entire system, will help rather than hinder. We believe that there is some technical expertise elsewhere in the system, specifically at the core, that can be shared with the operational entities, specifically at local level, and we believe this will add value.

As government, we will gain nothing by deliberately crippling a system by putting more challenges in the way of its operating well. Our quest is to make it better. In my own portfolio we are also involved in a number of case-by-case interventions, and this is in addition to the special project such as Project Consolidate, driven by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government.

The interventions that we work on collaboratively include the development of staffing norms for skilled workers in hospitals, the revision of organisational structures for provincial health departments, making recommendations on improving the scope of control and accountability for structures reporting to the Department of Trade and Industry, a report on the review of the Department of Trade and Industry’s role and powers, in co- ordinating the alignment of national policies, provincial growth and development strategies and IDPs, and the policy and implementation strategy on delegation of authority to hospital managers and CEOs of hospitals.

However, we believe it is better to consolidate these initiatives and bring them together under a single frame, a single Public Service. Therefore we will aggressively drive the legislative programme that will see this being legislated in the next two years. In the interim, we will proceed with amendments to this current Public Service Act in the second half of the year.

We believe legislating is one thing, but changing the behaviour of officials to ensure co-operation and integration among institutions and individuals is much more difficult. Research undertaken has shown that, despite much progress we have made in creating co-ordinating institutions, there is still a need for greater co-ordination and better integration of efforts, especially when undertaking joint programmes.

The development of systems has been department/sector/municipal or sphere specific, resulting in a situation where obtaining consolidated information for planning and other purposes become a challenge. We realise that going forward, there is a need for an even more integrated approach to all these activities. To address this situation, Cabinet approved the framework for the managing joint programmes in government towards the end of 2005. It is aimed at addressing the weakness in current procedures and processes of planning, budgeting and implementation, which are hampered by a weak capability to deliver.

It seeks to identify successful delivery of joint or crosscutting programmes, as well as encouraging new ways of working, to address the capability and integration challenge. Promoting a better management of joint programmes is part of a larger process of ensuring the coherent micro organisation of government, as well as improved intragovernmental and intergovernmental relations. This joint programmes framework seeks to support the objectives of the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act.

By the time we did the Ten-year Review, we had to acknowledge that our implementation failures could not be attributed solely to a lack of financial resources. It forced us to engage more critically with the issue, and as Sanjeev Karim points out, and I quote:

Underspending is virtually always linked to factors such as low levels of human and organisational capacities, mismanagement, lack of co- ordination, weak institutional frameworks, corruption and/or sufficient political will.

The solutions of these challenges are seemingly under human control, such as training, administrative capacity-building, improved communications and incentive systems. But these are not quick or easy solutions, in particular, they themselves require more financial resources, human and organisational capacity, etc, and long timeframes.

Given its relevance for policy implementation, capacity consideration has been prominent in the deliberation of the executive in recent years. As you are all aware, Cabinet makgotla, at this point, are being conducted, whether at executive, national or provincial government level, with representation at local government taking place in that forum, as co- ordinated.

Deputy Chairperson, regrettably I have four minutes and 11 seconds left. This portfolio is huge. The issues to discuss here are big, and 20 minutes by no means allow us to do justice to this. What I will do is just to lift out the subheadings, in order that we can come back to this. The governance and administration co-ordinating Ministers are involved with a process of assessing the capacity of our state machinery, with respect to the implementation of the agenda of the developmental state. This goes across the board.

The Public Service Commission has presented their state of the Public Service address, and in that highlighted some shortcomings within the state of the Public Service, but also raised the number of achievements. We also look at the 1 045 412 public servants, and note that 75% of them are employed by provincial government, with 4% in KwaZulu-Natal, which is approximately 42 000 persons. The national proportion of the total Public Service had shrunk in favour of provinces, with approximately 4%, 42 000 persons in KwaZulu-Natal, accounting for the largest proportion of provincial public servants, claiming 21% of the pie.

I must rephrase that. KwaZulu-Natal accounts for 21% of public servants, Eastern Cape for 16% and Gauteng 15%. The Northern Cape has the smallest, which is a mere 2% of all provincial public servants. I think we should also note that 90% of provincial public servants are black; women are overrepresented at a provincial level, making up 64% of provincial public servants. But this speaks more to the fact that public servants in the social sector are appointed at the provincial level, while public servants in the criminal justice and defence sectors are appointed at the national level, explaining the very skew gender profile at national level. Only 34% of public servants in national departments are women. Poor women. Earlier on I heard “poor men”. [Laughter.]

We also anticipate revised remuneration policy to be finalised by the end of this year. I can reflect on that more. We have also, in this report, reflected on the work done and progress made by the South African Management Development Institute, Samdi, and work in relation to the provinces. We reflect on the State Information and Technology Agency, and some of the outstanding work that they are doing. I would also want to note here that we have the translation of the e-Gateway portal into seven languages as from 1 May.

The Integrated Financial Management System has entered phase two, which entails the development of detailed technical specifications for the various modules and components of the system. One can go into that, as well as into the Seat Management Tender, which is quite pertinent to the provinces. Service delivery improvement is something that is also of great pertinence to our national anticorruption thrust.

Our international work and the work on the African continent, in so far as it relates to issues ranging from my obligations to the African Union, and the African Peer Review includes Mechanism our work in the DRC, the Sudan, Rwanda and Burundi, to mention but a few, as well as a memorandum of understanding with Ethopia in terms of bilateral relations. In conclusion, Deputy Chairperson, part of the effect of the Constitution under which we function is the fact that we benefit regularly from powerful and well-considered feedback from the population, broadly through the government’s programme of izimbizo, public hearings, and so forth, as well as from reports prepared by some of the oversight bodies that have been put in place in terms of our Constitution to strengthen our young democracy, specifically the Public Service Commission.

I am also particularly grateful to the NCOP’s Committee on Public Service and Administration, and the interest that this Chamber has in displaying matters related to public administration. I believe that the initiatives we have embarked upon, which I have outlined here, will make a huge difference in bringing about the public administration that this country requires, if we are to fulfil our hopes. I rededicate myself and my entire team to working tirelessly to turn all these initiatives into a success story for South Africa and Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr S SHICEKA: Deputy Chairperson, I have negotiated with my comrade Chris Ntuli to give me some of his time, therefore I will go beyond the required time. [Laughter.]

Deputy Chairperson, Minister, colleagues, and officials from the department, it is an honour and a privilege that I am contributing to this policy debate on an important calendar day, International Children’s Day, a day of joy for the future of any nation.

Today this debate is dealing with the key service delivery arm of government, an area that cuts across all departments and touches the lives of all South Africans from all walks of lives.

The ANC captured this point correctly in its 51st national conference’s resolutions and said:

The consolidation of the democratic order requires a transformation of institutions of governance to ensure that they are capable of facilitating the pursuit of the goal of creating a better life for all, the promotion of a culture of democracy and human rights, nonracism, new patriotism and African unity for reconstruction and development. We seek to build a developmental state that is capable of implementing the objectives of our national democratic revolution, addressing the legacy of apartheid colonialism and acting as a driving force for socio-economic development.

President Thabo Mbeki reiterated the important point in his state of the nation address when he addressed Parliament this year, and he said: “We cannot allow that government departments become an obstacle to the achievement of the goal of a better life for all.”

On this point, Professor P J Human states that:

Only a strong state can shape a new society as only a state with strong institutions can truly revolutionise society, strong institutions must revolutionise society and officials have to change from bureaucratic orientation to that of a “revocracy”.

A “revocracy” refers to the kind of institution that will play a revolutionary role in society and signify the power of change. Whereas a bureaucrat is driven by a desk, a “revocrat” is driven by change.

The functions of a “revocrat” are to manage the social aspect of a society, to deliver services, to manage change and to provide control. The main objective of a “revocrat” is to exploit change for the benefit of the society at large.

Human emphasised that:

A “revocrat” must abandon his self-serving position. The strategy of transformation needs to shift from the area of control to that of technical and change areas, to move both to responsiveness and the future.

Deputy Chairperson and colleagues, do we think that our Public Service has reached the level of a “revocracy”? The reason for me to ask this pertinent question is because all of us in our activities as public representatives and private citizens are touched or come into contact with the Public Service, in one way or the other, in our lives. In environmental terms they say, from the cradle to the grave. In layman’s language it’s from birth to death.

When we answer this question, we must be able to go down memory lane by saying the democratic government inherited a Public Service that imbued and was imbued with different values, norms, standards and a culture different from that we are aspiring for.

This Public Service was protected by the sunset clause reached at Kempton Park in a negotiated settlement, meaning that the hands of a democratic government were tied behind its back. These bureaucrats could not be dismissed; the only option available was to transform them.

The other additional question is: Have we done enough on this issue? Human says in this regard:

Strategists have to deal simultaneously with the present and the future, both maintaining the present levels of service delivery and transform them to meet the demands from below and the directives from above, and juggle global realities and local conditions together with social dynamics and technical complexities. It is like changing the wheels of a plane whilst it is still in motion in the air. [Interjections.]

The answer of the department to this question is that it helps to build a Public Service that is cost-efficient and result-oriented, transparent, responsive and accountable to the citizens. In support of these areas we need to focus on supporting efficient, responsive, transparent and accountable administration. Those are the views of the department.

The department has managed to develop a concept of Batho Pele, a concept that has managed to capture the imagination of our people, that brought hope to millions of our people, that today is better than yesterday; and tomorrow will definitely be better than today.

What was the response of the ANC on this question? The movement noted in 2005 National General Council resolution in Tshwane that the pace of transformation in the culture of the Public Service, particularly the implementation of Batho Pele, is slow, at times frustrating service delivery. You be the judge.

The committee believes that the department, under the stewardship of the Minister and administratively under the leadership of Professor Levine and the directors-general, has done its part. In economic terms, we say that fundamentals are in place. In public administration language, we say that policies have been developed. Where is the problem? It is with the sector departments who are supposed to train the frontline staff in the principles of Batho Pele, allowing senior managers to be at the coalface of delivery, developing monitoring and evaluating mechanisms that include incentives and punitive measures.

The department, Minister, has not developed a uniform system where citizens can actually be involved in a meaningful way in monitoring the quality services that are being delivered, with appropriate mechanisms of lodging grievances with appropriate supervisors who will take action. The people feel helpless, at the mercy of these bureaucrats. We cannot call them “revocrats”.

Public representatives have not taken a campaign that is sustainable to monitor the quality of service delivered in their respective areas. Minister, let’s develop a campaign under your leadership to ensure that our people in our lifetime are able to enjoy changed services for the better.

On this point, the ANC, through its 51st conference resolutions, says that:

… the need for all legislatures at all levels to exercise oversight responsibility more comprehensively by holding government departments and organs of the state accountable for both nonfinancial services and financial performance, and to inform the public on the accountability system for performance inthe public sector.

Let’s not shy away from our responsibility. Let us not fail our people on this issue. Professor Palmer says that:

The greater the organisational institutional capacity of a regime, the greater is its ability and capacity to motivate its population.

Professor Deutch argues with Huntington on the same point that political participation is an activity by private citizens designed to influence governmental decision-making. Huntington further argues that a lack of political institutionalisation makes it impossible for a political institution to accommodate new inputs and demands caused by political participation.

On this matter, the ANC has noted the considerable advances that have been made in transforming our system of governance into one in which the people are able actively to participate. This has been done through structures and mechanisms such as school governing bodies, community police forums, ward committees, izimbizo, constituency offices, the legislatures, and integrated development plans, amongst others. Campaigns such as Letsema and Masakhane are also important elements of public participation in governance.

The department responded by saying that governance and administration in South Africa is characterised by a mood of optimism that has roots in a number of factors, many of which relate to the greater levels of maturity found in government.

Consistent with international trends, there is growing concern in South Africa that the need for government to be accountable to its citizens, is making accountability a reality and there should be mechanisms, processes and systems directed to ensure that consultation is taking place. The CDWs are highly commendable by this committee, Minister.

In conclusion, the Public Service in our country is in safe hands. Let us not panic. Let us all support the department in its endeavour to advance the course of a responsive Public Service, a Public Service that promotes a caring government. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr N J MACK: Mevrou die Adjunkvoorsitter, agb Minister, agb lede, departement en gaste, ek wil net vir u sê ons kan ons nooit losmaak van ons geskiedenis nie.

Ek wil u terugvat na die jaar 1975, toe ek nog sowat 18 jaar oud was, en vir u vertel van my ondervinding van die polisiediens, wat destyds ‘n polisiemag was. As ons daardie polisie rondom die hoek sien kom, dan hardloop ons weg. Ons vra nie eers waarvoor hardloop ons nie. [Gelag.] Want jy word gevang en jy word toegesluit. Ons was mos daardie tyd maar amper terroriste gebrandmerk, want die predikant hardloop saam. [Gelag.] Klagtes by die polisiestasie het ons nooit gaan lê nie want ons was te bang. As jy daar kom met ‘n klagte, dan sê hulle: ons het die jongetjie lankal gesoek, sluit hom maar toe. [Gelag.] Nou sê jy: maar ek het niks gedoen nie. Hulle sê, man, as jy niks gedoen het nie, dan is jy op pad om iets verkeerd te gaan doen, so ons sluit jou maar toe. [Gelag.]

Dit is teen dié agtergrond wat ons moet kyk na die Staatsdiens, of soos hulle liewers sê, ``service to the public’’.

Dis ‘n voorreg om aan hierdie debat deel te kan neem. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the department and guests, I just want to tell you that we can never dissociate ourselves from our history.

I want to take you back to the year 1975, when I was about 18 years old, and tell you about my experience of the police service, which was a police force in those days. When we saw those policemen come round the corner, we ran away. We did not even ask ourselves why we were running away. [Laughter.] Because if you were caught, you were locked up. At that time we were almost branded as terrorists, because the clergyman was running along. [Laughter.] We never laid charges at the police station, because we were far too afraid. If you went there with a complaint, then they would say: We have been looking for this fellow for a long time, so lock him up. [Laughter.] Then you say: But I haven’t done anything. They say: Well, if you haven’t done anything, then you’re going to do something wrong, so we are locking you up anyway. [Laughter.]

It is against this background that we must look at the Public Service or, as they prefer saying, “service to the public ”.

It is a privilege to be able to participate in this debate.]

Whilst we were celebrating Africa Day last week, there is no doubt that our country and our continent is much better off than it used to be during the apartheid era. However, much more needs to be done and, during this budget debate, we have to reflect on the importance of appropriately structuring our governance systems to improve service delivery.

It is therefore important to continuously monitor and evaluate institutions of public service and the Department of Public Service and Administration, with the Public Service Commission, which play key roles in this regard.

Whilst it is a fact that the ANC government has successfully integrated the public service of various Bantustans and government departments into a coherent single Public Service, it is crucial to improve and transform the Public Service to make a positive impact on the lives of the poorest of the poor - workers in all sectors and our rural people - because these sectors of the South African community were totally ignored in the budgeting process of the former apartheid government.

Chapter 10, section 196, of our Constitution, states that we need an independent commission that can monitor and evaluate services delivered to the public. Therefore, we need to reflect on the funds that are allocated to the Public Service Commission during this Budget Vote.

Apart from visits to all provinces that were undertaken during our oversight role to get the picture whether the principles of Batho Pele are implemented at hospitals, clinics, schools and social welfare points, we note the three Batho Pele compliance audits that the Public Service Commission is processing. That will be completed in the near future, and we await the outcome thereof, as it is important that we step up the strengthening of the Batho Pele campaign.

In addition to this, we are pleased with the commission’s work on a framework on how to conduct inspections of service delivery sites. The framework will be used from 2006-07 to do unannounced and announced visits to these sites and to collect monitoring data. As the NCOP, we hope that the Public Service Commission will share this framework with us, as we will certainly want to make use of it to enable us to play our oversight role more effectively.

We note the increases to strategically important programmes and activities, and we will raise our concern were certain gaps are left, in particular where the people do not benefit.

Allow me to raise a concern immediately. Minister, the PSC evaluates the performance of national and provincial departments in implementing service standards in accordance with this Batho Pele White Paper, the White Paper on Transforming Public Service delivery.

In the briefing, there is a real concern that strikes us. We find that there is a big decline in the evaluation of performance of heads of departments. I don’t know whether they are not co-operating, but forms are given to them to fill in and the evaluations are declining drastically. These heads of departments need to be evaluated to see what their performance is like. The commission said that it would be taking this to Cabinet. I request you to assist the commission, as these of heads of departments are appointed by the President. We should speak to them so that we can evaluate if they are doing a good job or not.

The Public Service Commission’s budget from 2002 to 2005-06 rose from R62 million to R92 million, increasing at an annual rate of 14,3%. Most of the commission’s expenditure goes to compensation of staff, 67% of the budget allocated, because the Public Service Commission structure has 14 commissioners, and 41 officials in the senior management structure.

Given the importance of the Public Service Commission’s work across the public service departments and the three spheres of government, we noted that the commission is experiencing difficulties with increased workload due to the administration of the National Anti-corruption Hotline for the Public Service. It is a very good thing, but my concern is that, I think, not many of our people on the ground are aware of this hotline, and for sure, you will receive more and more complaints. So, I think you need to give them more money to increase their effectiveness.

As the ANC, we are impressed with the Public Service Commission’s work on developing a citizens’ satisfaction survey that was piloted in the Departments of Education, Housing, Health and Social Development. This survey measures the gap between citizens’ expectations about particular services and the experience of service delivery. Once gaps have been identified, it becomes possible to determine how better to meet the expectations.

In addition to this, the Public Service Commission also develops citizens’ forums as part of its ongoing work with the people. These forums involve institutions that are independent of the executive to participate jointly with citizens to propose practical ways of improving service delivery, and to standardise government’s approach. Time is going to catch up with me.

The concept was piloted in Mpumalanga’s health department, where the focus was on primary health care programmes, and in the Eastern Cape’s social development department, where the focus was on poverty alleviation.

I do not want to say ``In conclusion …’’. As the ANC, we know that part of getting services to improve the lives of the poor means putting in place institutions that assist in keeping check on what we do, why we do it and how we can do it better, faster and more effectively. [Interjections.] No, no, not yet!

I must still come back to Batho Pele. The word and whole concept of Batho Pele’’ meanspeople first’’. I can relate to a lot of experiences in departments where our people stand in queues and wait for a long time, and they are not getting service. Even the chairperson of this committee told us of how long he stood in a queue, just across the road, at Home Affairs. He went to the bank, and he stood in a queue there. After he received service, he retuned to Home Affairs and the queue was still there. So, the private sector is doing even better than some departments.

The Public Service Commission does not exist by accident. It is an integral part of the developmental state, and plays an appropriate role in accelerating transformation towards better service delivery. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D A WORTH: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, firstly, I wish to thank the director-general and his department for the informative briefing given to our committee. We really appreciate that. I thank you.

Now the aim of the Department of Public Service and Administration is to lead the modernisation of the Public Service by assisting government departments to implement the Policy Management System and structural solutions within a generally applicable framework of norms and standards in order to improve service delivery. Quite a mouthful. It is automatically the intention of the Department of Public Service and Administration to create one Public Service covering all spheres of government.

This department has as its objective, amongst others, to improve co- ordination and alignment across the three spheres of government. The department creates the programmes only and it depends on the capacity of the various spheres and departments to carry them out. The emphasis must be on implementation and delivery. The related ingredient of implementation is consistent monitoring and evaluation results in changing the culture of service to the public. The major problem is how the programme can be enforced to ensure compliance. The department is busy with a drafting of various performance contracts and salary scales, but only for levels 1 to 12, the lower and middle levels of the Public Service. We do not have a problem with it, but municipal managers at local government level continue to give themselves enormous salaries and bonuses and fail to deliver or perform.

It is at this level that the setting of standards and salaries are also necessary. What penalties or enforcement will be implemented to ensure that performance contracts, or the MFMA for that matter, are complied with or will it be left to the offices of the Auditor-General to report on this management.

The levels of corruption have reached alarming proportions, as alluded to by the Auditor-General, and the challenge of clean government is of growing concern to most South Africans. In the fifth State of the Public Service Report, the commission highlights skills shortages, fraud and corruption, bad financial management, poor recruitment, inadequate performance evaluation and slow responses to public enquiries as critical weaknesses.

The report further states that bad or inappropriate appointments in the Public Service are common and that politicians are meddling in the appointment processes. The commission says that the public is likely to lose confidence in anticorruption programmes if they don’t see quick and decisive results. For instance, in the statistics on cases of financial misconduct for 2004-05 in the Free State, my home province, the percentage of provincial cases were 16,5%, which is on a par with the other highest, namely the Eastern Cape, for example.

We trust that the department’s anticorruption unit and monitoring and evaluation policies and systems will now be vigorously implemented. Another critical area alluded to by the President, because it is relevant to service delivery and the objectives of Asgisa, relates to skills development and scare skills, particularly in the rural areas.

In April 2005 the government implemented Project Consolidate to support some 136 municipalities who were, and I quote, “facing challenges”. Of greater concern is the statement and again, I quote:

Our assessment of the last five years has indicated that both key national and provincial government departments are either not capable or positioned to provide structured or dedicated to municipalities.

As a result of the stringent implementation of affirmative action, many scare skills such as engineers, accountants and IT specialists have been lost in South Africa. At local government level this has led to flourishing consultancy industries. In my own province of the Free State no less than R16,5 million was paid to consultants last year to do the work that the public servants are being paid to do, because they lack the expertise or know-how.

More than half of the municipalities could not submit the annual returns; some municipalities have not even submitted their returns since 2002. However, the Joint Initiatives and Priority Skills Acquisitions, known as Jipsa, which is a multistakeholder group with business and labour, is to be welcomed. The Deputy President stated in this House recently that up to 150 persons with scarce skills have been identified.

It is to be hoped that these persons will be deployed as soon as possible and the DA will be monitoring the situation closely. The Minister and her department could spend much time on trying to sort out the problems of the Department of Home Affairs. No one complains about the service at Home Affairs because there isn’t any service. Security and ID theft is a major problem, so much so that the UK will not accept temporary South African passports.

Why concentrate on immigration procedures or quota work permits when most immigrants and illegal immigrants just walk across the borders. A study by the department into the health sector states:

The study found that public hospitals are highly stressed institutions due to staff shortages, unmanageable workloads and management failures. The situation with nurses is particularly acute.

It is to be welcomed that the investigation into the re-establishment of the nurses’ training colleges, which were closed down in 2002 will shortly be completed. Why these colleges were ever closed down in the first instance is beyond belief. The DA trusts that the working conditions in salaries of nurses and health services personnel would be urgently reviewed to stop the exodus overseas of nurses of all races.

These are just a few examples of problems in some of the departments. The committee agrees, and that was alluded to by the previous spokesperson, that a role that the NCOP could play in future would be unannounced visits to the various institutions to monitor delivery and implementation.

Finally, I wish the Department for the Public Service and Administration all the success for their Public Service Day, which I hope I have right, is on 23 June. I thank you.

Ms S NYANDA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the ANC has placed key importance on information and technology as a tool that enhances and strengthens Public Service in the country. Information and technology is an important part of the infrastructure on which both the Public Service and a strong developing state and economy rests.

The President, in his state of the nation address, referred to the importance of getting our infrastructure updated. In particular, he referred to the following broad tasks: accelerating economic development, including measures to ensure that the first and the second economies link up in the future to ensure that all share in the wealth of the country; getting the Public Service and Administration engine tuned so that it is appropriately positioned to implement our policies and legislation; enhancing social services sectors to remain part of the holistic aim appropriately to develop our young people and adult learners to develop the economy; addressing housing and land issues that are lagging behind; and lastly social justice and security issues.

To be more specific with regard to the link between developing our infrastructure and getting a Public Service engine tuned, the President referred to specific tasks that have been undertaken in this regard: a government-wide monitoring and evaluation system that ensures a fully functional Public Service and Administration engine that must be drafted and implemented - some of our comrades spoke about the work of the Public Service Commission and the Department of Public Service and Administration in this regard; integrating points of service delivery and back office systems that ensure delivery across the Public Service; integrating the Inter-Governmental Relations Framework Act in all provinces; and completing the implementation of the Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis.

Sita assists government departments by doing the following: recruiting, developing and retaining skilled IT personnel; managing IT procurement and ensuring that government gets value for money; using IT to support transformation and service delivery; utilising expensive IT resources; and integrating all government’s IT initiatives.

If the principle of Batho Pele is totally foreign to Sita officials, that will affect departments and service delivery. If this principle is not respected, it will affect the poor of the poorest. Referral is mainly to people who depend on social grants only and predominantly reside in rural areas.

We need to investigate the underlying problem before it is too late. The question that arises is whether Sita is playing its role, fulfilling its mandate and delivering on promises. If not, what ought to be done?

Hon members, it is for this Parliament to decide on a way forward. In the first place, it is Parliament that saw a need for the existence of Sita. Since legislation establishing Sita was passed in 1999, at this point in time, it is proper for me to pose this question: Sita, are you coming or are you going? Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, Minister and colleagues, despite the success of the Department of Public Service and Administration, enormous challenges remain. The main challenge is the exodus of skilled workers in vital professions. I will concentrate today on this loss of scarce skills.

In KwaZulu-Natal alone, there are more that 26 000 vacancies for medical specialists and practitioners, pharmacists and emergency workers. Some of the experts believe that the brain drain may fuel the vicious circle of underdevelopment and cost poor countries the very people who are able to resist corruption and bad governance. South Africa is the number one host country for international students from Africa and compares favourably with the rest of the world as an education destination. But, South Africa has not developed a coherent policy to welcome international students as potential job seekers, like other countries are doing. South Africa must be part of the race to attract the best brains.

In managing the need to import skills, the task teams put together by the Deputy President will need to develop a coherent human resource database qualifying specialist skills required in government sectors and business.

Also, South Africa needs to develop a database of professionals, students and others leaving the country and a coherent policy on the internationalisation of its tertiary education sector to enable the country to attract the best and the brightest. Task teams will need to map out a comprehensive recruitment strategy to compete globally for the people with high-level skills. The recruitment drive must go beyond individual Ministers’ initiatives in seeking to identify skills needs in their departments. The recruitment strategy should take into account the fact that South Africa can attract skilled people in the health care profession precisely because of the experience that only our environment can provide.

The IFP believes that the skills shortage should be dealt with as a top government priority. There are far too many unemployed graduates and too much dependency on foreign skills. It is no wonder that our best people are being poached. What is the point in applying when you know you have no chance at a position? There are nearly 24 000 South African medical professionals working in the developed English-speaking world.

The IFP believes that it is time for government to look anew at the reasons for the exodus of skills by providing better incentives to people to remain here and serve the people of the country.

The Minister will remember that some time ago we did have a problem in the Department of Justice, especially in the prosecutorial authorities. There were a lot of students lingering and those were the resources that were at our disposal. I do not know how far that went because there was a move towards those students probably being taken in and absorbed in the mainstream so as to start training them; and we could see whether we could not probably get the best out of those students. I think if we may embark on that, we will do better for the future of this country. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mnu Z C NTULI: Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe, malungu athembekile, basebenzi bakahulumeni, ngizothanda nje ukuqala laphayana kuDarryl Worth we-DA obabaze inkohlakalo, waphinde wababaza ukukhwabanisa, wababaza nemiholo yezimenenja zomasipala. Ngisathanda ukumkhumbuza ukuthi … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr Z C NTULI: Chairperson, Minister, hon members, and public servants, I would like to start by addressing Darryl Worth of the DA, who complained about corruption, theft and also the high salaries of municipal managers. I would like to remind him that …]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, just a minute. Can I get the attention of our interpreting services and ask them to provide interpreting services, as this is a non-negotiable constitutional imperative? Can you proceed, hon member.

Mnu Z C NTULI: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Kuhle lokho ngoba ngiyathanda ukuthi ilungu lizwe. Lungu, kufanele wazi ukuthi kunje nje yifa esilithathe kinina. Konke lokhu osukwenza kubukeke manje sengathi kusha, yinto ebivele ikhona le; kuphela nje ukuthi naningakuvezi ukuthi kukhona. Manje yikho-ke usuthole ithuba lokukuqhakambisa kube sengathi yinto efikayo.

Ngifuna-ke futhi ukukukhumbuza maqondana nale ndaba yabantu abawufundele umsebenzi, amaprofessionals, kanye nonesi ukuthi, cha, phela manje siphila emhlabeni lapho sekuthiwa kukhulunywa indaba yokuthintana komhlaba wonkana, i-globalisation. Ngalokho usuke uvunyelwe ukuya lapho ubona ukuthi ungaya khona. Inqubo yentando yeningi le esayilwela iyona ebhekela ukuthi abantu bangaphoqwa ngenkani, kuthiwe umuntu akenze into ethile njengoba nanenza ezinganeni zenu nithi azibe amasotsha ngaphambi kokuba ziye kofunda.

Baba uMzizi, maqondana nale ndaba yokukhala ngamakhono, kuye kwaziswe wonke umuntu maqondana nezikhundla, kuthiwe abantu abafake izicelo zomsebenzi. Akukabonakali kahle ukuthi lokhu ukuthathaphi, kodwa-ke kukhona phela inzwabethi ethi “yingoba abantu bebandlululwa”. Kodwa uMongameli wethu wakubeka wathi abantu abeze ngaphambili. Futhi-ke ngiyakumema Mzizi ukuthi ubalethe abantu abanamakhono abangaqashwanga ngoba kuthiwa bamhlophe.

Ngqongqoshe, siyazi kuthi uMnyango wakho kuningi ozama ukukwenza maqondana nokuthi ulungise lesi simo sabasebenzi bakahulumeni abangontamolukhuni abangafuni ukushintsha. Siyazi ukuthi ziningi izindlela ozibekile zokwenza izinto ukuze kulungiseke lesi simo esingalungile. Siyazazi izinhlelo ezifana nalolo onika kulo abasebenzi abangabaphathi ithuba lokuzifikela mathupha lapho kusetshenzwa khona umsebenzi wokuletha izinsiza kubantu. Siyayazi imizamo enjalo.

Siyazi futhi ukuthi usuqeqeshe abasebenzi abangabathuthukisi bomphakathi abayi-3 323 asebephothulille izifundo zabo. Siyazi ukuthi osubaqashile bayi- 1 039. Siyazi futhi ukuthi usebenza nalaphaya ohlelweni lwezamakhono olubizwa nge-Joint Initiative on Priority Skills Acquisition. Yonke le yimizamo yokuthi sikwazi ukushintsha lokhu kucabanga kwalezi zimenenja esazifica laphaya.

Isihlakaniphi u-Abraham Lincoln uthi, uma unikwe amahora amathathu okugawula umuthi, yena angasebenzisa amabili elola imbazo nje. Lokho kutshengisa ukuhlela okusho ukuthi i-ANC iyazi lapho iya khona. Abantu mabangajahi baxhamazele bakhombe lokhuya nalokhuya. Siyazi ukuthi siyaphi. Sinohlelo lokwenza izinto maqondana nokuthi zonke lezi zinkinga ezikhona sizozixazulula kanjani.

Ngifuna ukugxila kakhulu kule nhlangano ebizwa nge-SA Management Development Institute. Isungulelwe ukuthi yenze umsebenzi wokwakha amandla okusebenza, esikubiza phecelezi sithi i-capacity building, njengengxenye yohlelo olwenabile lokwakha amandla okusebenza ngobuqotho kukahulumeni. Izinhlelo zeSamdi zinegalelo elikhulu ekwenzeni ukusebenza kukahulumeni, i- public service, kube qotho, kubonakale, futhi lokho kwenze lezi zinhlelo zikwazi ukuhlangabezana nezidingo zokuthuthukiswa kwabasebenzi bakahulumeni. Kudingeka sibheke izinhloso zikahulumeni odabeni lokulethwa kwezinsiza kubantu nokuthi yiluphi uhlelo okumele luhlanganiswe naluphi ukuze sifezekise injongo enhle yeSamdi ethi, phecelezi, creating a self- sustaining organisational transformation centre of excellence for public service.

Siphinde silandele izinhlelo zeSamdi zokuqalisa izinqumo zemigomo yezokuphatha, izithombululi eziqondene nezinhlaka kanye nezinye izinhlelo ezihlose ukwenza ngcono izimpilo zabantu. Ukuphumelela kokusebenza kwe- Asgisa kuncike ekusebenzi ngobuqotho nangokugculisa kweMinyango nezinhlaka zikahulumeni, okubizwa phecelezi kuthiwe i-state machinery.

Udaba lokuthola zonke izinsiza endaweni eyodwa kuyinto ebalulekile futhi kunesidingo sokwenza isivumelwano sokusebenza ngokubambisana phakathi kwazo zonke izinhlelo ezithintekayo ukuze kuqinisekiswe ukusebenzisana kweMinyango kahulumeni nezinye izinhlelo.

Malungu ePhalamende, kungumsebenzi wethu ukuthi ngesikhathi sisezindaweni esisebenzela kuzo kumbe emahhovisi ethu emakhaya, siyivakashele iMinyango ukuze sikwazi ukubona ukuthi ziyenzeka lezi zinto esikhuluma ngazo, futhi sikwazi ukuxoxa nayo maqondana nokuthi yini esingayenza ukulungisa lezi zinto, kunokuthi singayi laphaya ezindaweni bese sibuya sizokhononda lapha.

Okubaluleke kakhulu ukufakwa kwabesimame nabakhubazekile ezinhlelweni okuthathwa kuzo izinqumo kuyo yonke imikhakha yeMinyango kahulumeni. Umsebenzi weSamdi awungathathwa kancane ngoba uneqhaza elibalulekile. Izinhlelo nemigomo yeSamdi ziyahambisana nalezo ezigcizelelwa yi-ANC, okungukuqinisekisa amandla okusebenza ngobuqotho nokusebenza kahle komsebenzi kahulumeni. Umsebenzi omuhle oqhakambisa umphakathi njengoba kusho iBatho Pele.

Thina, njenge-ANC, siyazi ukuthi simelwe ukuqikelela ukuthi imigomo kahulumeni ayiphenduki iziqubulo eziyize leze. Asiqaphele ukuthi nayo iBatho Phele belu ingangeni engozini yokwenziwa isiqubulo esingenamnyakazo. Thina, njenge-ANC, sazisa abasebenzi bakahulumeni ukuthi njengoba sifaka izimali sihlose ukuthi senze ngcono izimpilo zabantu bakithi. Angeke sababekezelela labo basebenzi bakahulumeni abangafuni ukubhukula, babhince ezimfishane, ukuze basize umphakathi.

Siyazi ukuthi kwisabiwomali soMnyango wezeMisebenzi kaHulumeni nezokuPhatha kunemali engangezigidi zamarandi ezinga-78 efakiwe ukuze kuqaliswe uhlelo lwe-incapacity leave kanye nohlelo olubizwa nge-ill-health retirement management framework ukuqinisekisa ukuthi abasebenzi bayanakekelwa. Ukwengeza kulokho, kunemali ebekelwe ukuthi isize ukuqinisa uhlelo lokuthi uMnyango ukwazi ukusebenza ngendlela efanele. Leyo mali iyizigidi zamarandi ezinga-60, ezinga-70 nezinga-80 kulesi sikhathi se-MTEF. Leli galelo likhombisa ukuzibophezela kukahulumeni oholwa u-ANC ekwenzeni ngcono izimo zokusebenza nokuphatha kwabasebenzi bakahulumeni kuyo yonke iMinyango.

UMongameli washo enkulumweni yakhe yokuvula iPhalamende wathi, sesingena esigabeni sokuthokolwa kwamathemba ngoba amathunzi ayewukela okubizwa nge- age of hope. Sificwe yisikhathi esihle ngokuthi siqondane nalesi sabiwomali soMnyango.

Uhulumeni oholwa i-ANC uyakugcizelela ukubaluleka kokuphuthunyiswa kwezinhlelo zoguquko. Ugcizelela ukuphuthunyiswa kwezinhlelo zokwenza kahle imisebenzi yomphakathi, okubizwa nge-service delivery. Ukuze konke lokhu kube yimpumelelo, sidinga ukuthi i-Samdi ibe nazo zonke izinhlelo zentuthuko nezifundo zokuqeqeshwa kwabasebenzi bakahulumeni. Lokhu kuzosiza ukuthi kufezeke injongo yokwenza ngcono ukulethwa kwezinto eziwusizo kubantu.

Unyaka ka-2004 kuya ku-2005 unyaka obonakale njengoyingqophamlando kwi- Samdi lapho kwethulwe isakhiwo sezinhlelo ngenhloso yokwenza ngcono ukusebenza kahle kweSamdi ngokunjalo nokulethwa kwezinsiza kubantu. Thina, njenge-ANC, sithi: Yimani isibindi bantu baseNingizimu Afrika. Konke lokhu enikubonayo kuzodlula. Sizofika esikhathini lapho abasebenzi bakahulumeni bezosebenzela leli lizwe ukuze liye phambili. Sengiphetha, ngifuna ukuthi uKhongolose uthi asisiphasiseni lesi sabiwomali ukuze sikwazi ukwenza izimpilo zabantu baseNingizimu Afrika zibe ngcono. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr Z C NTULI: Thank you, Chairperson. That is good, because I would like the hon member to understand. Hon Member, you must remember that we inherited this whole mess from you. All this had been happening before, but you now want us to believe it is new; this is something that existed before, and it’s just that you did not let the world know that it existed. And now you proudly talk about it as if it’s something new. I also want to remind you about the professionals such as nurses that are now living all over the world, as we are talking about globalisation. It is that you are allowed to go wherever you want to go. The democracy we fought for is the one that protects people from being forced to do what you were doing to your children, saying they should be conscripted before they go to university.

Hon Mzizi, regarding the issue of the shortage of skills, everyone is always informed about the available vacant posts and people are always encouraged to apply. It is not clear where you get all this from. We are, however, aware of the uninformed hearsay that people are discriminated against. Our President clearly said people should come forward. I also urge you, hon Mzizi, to bring us those skilled people who have allegedly not been employed because they are white. Minister, we know that there is a lot that your department is trying to do regarding the condition of the conservative public servants who are not prepared to change. We know that you have put in place many ways to correct this bad situation. We are aware of programmes like those where you allow the managers the opportunity personally to visit the areas where service delivery takes place. We are aware of such efforts.

We are also aware that you have trained 3 323 people, community developers who have completed their courses. We also know that of these community developers, 1 039 have been employed. We know that you are working on the skills system called the Joint Initiative on Priority Skills Acquisition, Jipsa. All these efforts are for us to be able to change the way of thinking of the managers we found there.

The brilliant scholar Abraham Lincoln once said: “Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.” This shows that the ANC knows where it is going. People must not rush things, pointing to this and that. We know where we are going. We have a programme, and we know how to resolve all these problems that we have.

I want to focus on the organisation called SA Management Development Institute, Samdi. It was established for capacity-building, as part of the system developed to create work and build the government’s capability to do quality work.

Samdi’s programmes play a vital role in the Public Service, to do quality work, something to identify and to enable systems that are able to meet the needs with regard to empowering public servants. We need to look at the government objectives regarding service delivery, and also establish which programmes we can link up in order to achieve the prudent objective of Samdi, which is: “Creating a self-sustaining organisational transformation centre of excellence for public service”.

We also need to follow the programmes of Samdi regarding the implementation of management policies, resolutions on structural systems as well as other programmes, which are intended to improve the lives of the people. The success and effectiveness of Asgisa is dependent on the efficiency of government departments and other government systems that are usually called “the state machinery”.

The notion of placing service delivery in a single centre is very important and there is a need for a memorandum of understanding between all stakeholders in order to foster collaboration between the government departments and other state organs.

Hon members, it is our duty, when we are at our constituency offices, to visit the departments so that we can monitor whether or not these policies are implemented, and also to engage the departments in order to establish what it is that we can do to rectify the situation, rather than staying away from these departments and coming to complain in this House.

What is more important is the inclusion of women and people with disabilities in the programmes at the levels where decisions are made in all spheres of government. The work of Samdi should not be taken lightly because it has a pivotal role to play here. The programmes of Samdi are those that are constantly emphasised by the ANC, which are capacity- building and making sure that the government machinery is oiled in order to work. The work that is good is the work that puts people first, as the principles of Batho Pele state.

We, as the ANC, know that we need to make sure that government policies are not merely turned into useless political slogans. We also need to make sure that Batho Pele itself is not just made a useless political slogan. We, as the ANC, tell the public servants that as we put all the moneys towards where it is necessary, we intend making the lives of our people better. We will not in the least tolerate those public servants who do not want to work hard and help our people.

We are aware that the DPSA has put aside at least about R78 million to start preparing for the incapacity leave and ill health retirement framework, to make sure that people are taken care of. On top of that there is also a certain sum that has been put aside for capacity-building. The total amount here is R60 million, R70 million and R80 million during this MTEF period. All this shows the level of commitment by the ANC-led government in making the conditions of work favourable for all workers in all government departments.

In his state of the nation address, the President spoke of the age of hope. We are indeed in the age of hope. It is interesting that this age of hope coincided with the Budget Vote of this department.

The ANC-led government wants to emphasise the importance of speeding up service delivery. For all this to be a success, Samdi needs to play a role in the developmental programmes in order to train public servants. All this would help in making service delivery better.

Samdi worked more effectively during the financial year ending 2005, because it helped in bringing service delivery to the people. This was indeed a historic year for Samdi. We, as the ANC, say to the people of this country: Please just bite the bullet. All that is happening will be history. The time will come when the public servants will truly work for this country and take it forward.

In conclusion, I want to say that the ANC says: Let us support this Budget Vote so that we can make the lives of people in South Africa better. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon Chairperson and members, thank you very much for that very engaging debate. A number of issues were raised and I think, from the quality of the inputs, it very clearly shows that there is a great commitment to the area of public service and administration; the need and strive to ensure that we build a strong state; and a clear commitment to all elements of governance raised here today. When we listen to the chairperson of the select committee, hon Shiceka, it is clear that he has become a scholar of public administration – if we were to go by his references today. One can but say that we welcome the inputs he made. It is clearly taken into account.

Yesterday in my input to the National Assembly, I pointed out to the team - and it was more of a reminder to Parliament and its elected representatives and the country as a whole - that our business in public service transformation is not done once we have managed to prepare documents for Cabinet decisions, but that it is but the beginning of the work. The compliance therewith is absolutely important. I also pointed to the fact that we have taken heed of the issues raised by the Public Service Commission in relation to non-compliance. I want to restate that matter here today and say that it is an issue that we are considering.

Having said that, there are a few questions that one needs to respond to very, very directly. We need to look at the issue of the lodging of grievances by the citizens and the response time. We need to look at how we could tighten that up, both in terms of access to and provision of service delivery. I think we cannot quarrel with that.

Ek wil ook vir die agb lid sê dat ons beslis ’n situasie het waar dit nie nou meer nodig is om bang te wees vir die polisie nie. Ons is deel daarvan en is besig om die Staatsdiens te herbou. [I also want to say to the hon member that we definitely have a situation where it is no longer necessary to be afraid of the police. We are part of it and are in the process of rebuilding the Public Service.]

We are taking things forward in the manner that it needs to be done. In terms of issues that have been raised by the Public Service Commission – and I just want to deal with a comprehensive response to the questions raised - there were indeed criticisms but there were also a number of positive issues. These points may have well been heard. We need to restate that today. It is a fact that the Public Service has shown a capacity to promote and implement ethical and normative frameworks such as the National Anti-Corruption Forum and Batho Pele. There are notable improvements in the capacity of the Public Service and the country as a whole, to address corruption. There has been a 55% decrease in fraud and theft cases in the 2004-05 financial year. As some members may have alluded to, there is no middle management in the Public Service. Following a Public Service Commission verification of qualifications in 2005, it was found that some have fraudulent qualifications. The Public Service has an improved relationship with the public-private sector and civil society and the citizens’ satisfaction in economic and the infrastructure sectors indicates satisfaction levels ranging between 61% and 81%.

The evaluated heads of department and directors-general are shown to be performing at levels significantly above average and out of the national heads of department evaluated, 67% got ratings of outstanding performance, whereas 25% got ratings of performing significantly above average. The target for employment equity is being achieved. The Auditor-General’s report on national departments shows that the total disclosed expenditure in the categories of irregular, unauthorised, fruitless and wasteful expenditure fell from R142,1 million in 2003-04 to R83,8 million in 2004-

1. That report concludes that the Public Service has continued to bolster its capacity to deliver and has, in the process, accomplished a lot to be proud of.

I thought I should state that the comments that were raised could be seen as largely constructive. We have done a lot, but we understand that there is still much to be done. Having said that, I listened to the hon Worth when he spoke about the modernisation of the Public Service and very clearly he had studied the document quite well and listened to the inputs. I got a sense at a point, when he said that there was a need to set standards for remuneration at local government level, that he was probably leading his party’s position by saying, “the DA hereby supports a single public service”. I’d like to thank him for that particular point. [Applause.] That is the inference I made from his input.

He then went on, however, to speak about the issue of the stringent application of affirmative action that led to a loss of skills and to consultancies being formed. That sounded to me like an absolutely anecdotal remark without any evidence. Hon Worth did not give any indication of where this happened on how it happened and I would actually like to challenge him and say: Hon Worth, please provide us with the empirical evidence of this stringent application of affirmative action that has led to this great loss of skills referred to. We would like to hear about that.

That there are people who left the Public Service in order to go into consultancies, I would not argue about. Indeed, we have seen that. There were those who took voluntary severance packages. Let me emphasise “voluntary severance packages”. They set up consultancies and some of them have not done that well. Others have. They may well be reviewing the fact that they left at a point in time and may be wiling to come back in one way or another. We need to look at this carefully and again look at the statements we make in terms of the issues raised.

There were then also a number of other loose comments that were made, such as no need to improve immigration, because, after all, people just walk across borders. That sounds irresponsible for an elected representative. I don’t think we should be in this House and suggest that we would condone lawlessness. It is entirely problematic.

There was also, I think, a very correct reading in some respects around the report on hospitals. The hon member, however, stopped short and didn’t give credit to the fact that the report was actually providing a solution to a current problem. It states that precisely because of these problems, we have a particular transformation approach; we are taking it forward in collaboration with the hospital revitalisation process. As responsible elected officials, I think we need to be able to reflect our willingness to be even-handed as we give credit.

Hon Mzizi – and we have a very good relationship – also raised a number of issues, but in some instances sounded quite contradictory. Hon Mzizi you said here, through you, Chairperson, that we have not developed a coherent policy for foreign students as potential job seekers. And you went on. You also said that our dependence on foreign skills leads to the loss of our own skills. Now what do you want? Should we have a comprehensive policy that takes into account everything or should we pretend that there is one thing without the other? I want to refer you to the written document and state that in this document, on page 9, it says that there is a framework for foreign nationals. As a matter of fact, I signed off that framework two days ago. That framework is precisely to deal with the complex issue of the capacity needs for us as a country and a developmental state. We also cannot pretend to be ahistorical and apolitical about the fact that we have been a country that was closed to others largely before our democracy was established. Now that there is an open labour market and with globalisation there will be greater mobility. How do we actually exploit what we call the “brain drain”? How do we encourage those who left the country actually to come back? I’d like to assure this House that that is where we are looking at a very clear strategy on the recruitment and retention of skills for this Public Service. None of these things will happen overnight. If they do, then we would be irresponsible about the way in which we are rolling out these programmes. I honestly believe that together we can make a difference.

I am sorry, I can’t even come to Sita, because Sita is neither coming nor going; it’s consolidating. But if you look at the report, the consolidation of Sita is spelled out. What would happen if it was going? We would simply invoke the shareholders’ compact to identify where it’s not working well. We can now applaud ourselves and say that in the consolidation phase, based on that shareholders’ compact, we can actually unpack the areas that work has developed on. This ranges from the human capital policies and management strategies to the achievements under the procurement of services. We can celebrate the fact that the average turnaround time on tenders has been reduced from 240 days to 75 days. If you look at the black empowerment component of Sita-awarded tenders, this has increased by over 60%. I can also talk about baseline service delivery measures, and so on.

In essence, we have achieved a fair amount. There is yet a lot more to be done. This is a long road that we are walking. Public Service transformation is not something that will be done in a day’s time. It is a process and as you build the capability for the developmental state, none of that is going to happen overnight. All of that is about the process that we must all be committed to.

I want to conclude, Chairperson, and I really appreciate your indulgence. There are the teams that we have and the many public servants across the country who are making a sterling effort to take forward the transformation agenda of this government to implement our Constitution. There are some, however, who are not performing as they should. That is why there are various tools to look at the evaluation of performance, appropriately in a developmental context, and it will be able to identify those, so that we don’t simply carry them along. We won’t let them come back on a special dispensation. When they are out, they are out.

As an inspiration to public servants, I thought one would want to just share some wisdom of one of the fathers of public administration, Woodrow Wilson, who said:

You are not here merely to make a living. You are here in order to enable the world to live more amply, with greater vision, with a finer spirit of hope and achievement. You are here to enrich the world, and you impoverish yourself if you forget the errand.

We are all committed to this democracy and we all state that South Africa demands the best and is entitled to that. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

               DEBATE ON INTERNATIONAL CHILDREN’S DAY

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mr D D GAMEDE: Sihlalo namalungu onke ahloniphekile, namuhla umhlaba wonke ugubha usuku lokuhlonipha nokubungaza abantwana. [Chairperson and hon members, today the whole world celebrates International Children’s Day.]

Today we say: “Caring communities protect children, and children’s rights are human rights.”

Umbuzo omkhulu uthi: Abantwana kufanele bavikelwe kanjani? Izimpendulo esingazikhipha zingaba ziningi. Zingafana nalezi ezilandelayo. Singabavikela abantwana ngokuthi bahlale emakhaya nemindeni yabo; ngokuthola uthando emindenini yabo; ukubasusa endlaleni; ukuhlonipha amalungelo abantwana afana nokuthi bakwazi ukudlala, bakwazi ukufunda, bakwazi ukuba nekhaya, bakwazi ukungahlukunyezwa ngokocansi nangokomsebenzi, bakwazi ukuvikelwa futhi ezifweni ezithize. Ngamanye amazwi abantwana bangabantu ngakho-ke banawo wonke amalungelo aqukethwe uMthethosisekelo wezwe lethu noSomqulu Wenkululeko.

Asibonge ukuthi abantwana namuhla baphila kwiNingizimu Afrika entsha nekhululekile, eholwa yilo hulumeni kaKhongolose. Bheka nje kulezi zinyanga ezimbalwa ezedlule, thina njengohulumeni siphasise imithetho eminingi evikela abantwana. Kukhona uMthethosivivinywa obizwa nge-Children’s Bill, kukhona ne-Sexual Offences Bill kanye nemithetho evimbela ukuqashwa kwabantwana ukuze bangaxhashazwa, ikakhululukazi emapulazini nasemafemini.

Maqondana nokulwa nendlala kubantwana, nyanga zonke uhulumeni wethu uxhasa ngemali izingane ezingaphezu kwezigidi eziyisikhombisa, futhi wondla izintandane ezingaphezu kwe-300 000 ngenyanga. Kodwa thina njengemiphakathi sisabhekene nezinselelo ukuze sikwazi kahle ukuvikela abantwana bethu. Inselelo yokuqala, ukuhlala ngokuthula emakhaya ethu kungabi nodlame ngoba uma kunjalo kuthinta futhi kuphazamise abantwana. Siyakubona lokhu namuhla nakulezi zinsuku lapho kuxabana abazali noma izithandani kugcine kubulewe abantwana. Kwesinye isikhathi bayadutshulwa, bagwazwe nangemimese. Siyabona futhi lapho kuhlukanisa abazali, umama nobaba, ukuthi abantu abahluphekayo emuva kwalokho kuba abantwana.

Kufanele sivikele abantwana kulesi sifo esingumashayabhuqe, i-HIV ne-Aids. Kufanele sixoxe nabantwana nasemphakathini ngalesi sifo, ngale kwalokho ngeke sibe nabo abaholi bakusasa nesizwe sonke siyoshabalala.

Sisabhekene nenselelo yezintandane. Okufanele sikwenze ukukhuthaza ukuthi, “Umntwana wami umntwana wakho.” Akufanele sibe nezintandane sibe sinemindeni emikhulu kangaka exhantelayo, ebizwa ngama-extended families.

Sibhekene nenselelo emakhaya yokukhonjiswa kwezithombe zocansi komabonakude, okuthiwa yi-pornographic material. Lezi zithombe zibukwa abantwana. Noma lezi zithombe ziqwashisa ngokuthi isithombe sinodlame noma sinocansi, kodwa abantwana bathanda khona lokho.

Sibhekene nenselelo yabantwana abahlala emgaqweni ababizwa ngokuthi ama- street children. Sinxusa imiphakathi ukuthi ithathe imikhankaso yokubaqoqa laba bantwana babuyele emindenini yabo ngoba bagcina benze ubugebengu, badle nezidakamizwa. Sinenselelo yokuthi abantwana abakhubazekile bamukeleke, babe yingxenye yemiphakathi futhi bamukeleke emindenini.

Sengizogcina, ngithi udlame nezimpi izinto ezihlukumeza kakhulu abantwana, noma ngabe kwenzeka kuleli lizwe noma e-Afrika noma emhlabeni wonke. Siyakubona ukuhlukumezeka kwabantwana e-DRC, Darfur, Iraq, ePalestine nakoSomalia. Eminyakeni engama-30 edlule umuntu wokuqala owafa ngezibhelu zika-1976 kwakungu-Hector Peterson. Wayengumntwana. Ngakho-ke lokho sikubona njengegalelo elafakwa ngabantwana ekuletheni inkululeko ezweni lethu. Masibanakekele abantwana, sibavikele. Amalungelo abantwana ngamalungelo esintu. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The critical question is: How should children be protected? We might have several answers. They include the following: We can protect children by keeping them at home with their families; by giving them love in families; by removing them from poverty; by respecting their rights such as the right to play, have an education and a home; not to be sexually abused; not to be subjected to child labour; and to be protected against certain diseases. In other words, children are human beings. Therefore, they have all the rights that are entrenched in the Constitution of our country and the Freedom Charter.

Let us be thankful that today children are living in a new and free South Africa, which is led by the ANC government. Just a few months ago, we, as the government passed many laws that protect children. Those are the Children’s Bill, the Sexual Offences Bill and also laws that prohibit child labour so that children are not exploited on farms and in firms.

Regarding the fight against starvation among children, every month our government sponsors at least 7 million children and also supports more than 300 000 orphans a month. But we as the communities are still faced with challenges in protecting our children. The first challenge is that of living in peace in our homes, without violence, because if it is not like that, then children are somehow disturbed. Now and then you find that parents or spouses would quarrel and the end result is the death of children. Sometimes children are shot at, and even stabbed with knives. Sometimes you find that when parents get divorced, the people who really suffer in the end are the children.

We need to protect our children from HIV and Aids. We need to talk to both our communities and the children about this disease, otherwise we will not have the leaders of tomorrow and the whole nation will simply vanish.

We are still faced with the challenge of orphans. What we must do is to encourage the practice of “my child is your child”. We should not have orphans when we have such big extended families.

We are still faced in our homes with the problem of pornographic material being shown on our television. Children watch these images, even though these images have warning signs that they contain violence or pornographic images; that is what the children like the most.

We are still faced with the problem of street children. We ask the communities to launch campaigns to remove these children from the street so that they can go back to their families, because they end up committing crimes like taking drugs. We are still faced with the challenge of accepting physically challenged children. They are a part of the community and their families should accept them as such.

In conclusion, I say violence and wars are the things that chiefly trouble children, whether it happens here in South Africa, Africa or anywhere in the whole world. We see the abuse of children in the DRC, Darfur, Iraq, Palestine and Somalia. In the past 30 years, the first person to die during the 1976 uprising was Hector Peterson. He was a child. We therefore view this as a role played by the children in bringing freedom to our country. Let us care for children and protect them. Children’s rights are human rights. I thank you, Chairperson.]

Ms D ROBINSON: Hon Chair and hon members, as we celebrate International Children’s Day and Child Protection Week, we need to focus on creating a better and safer world for the future of our children. We remember the tragic events of 16 June, which occurred in Soweto in 1976 – 30 years ago - and remind ourselves that man’s inhumanity to man, especially to our children, must never be repeated.

Educational issues were at the heart of that protest. We need to recognise now that a good education is vital to creating a better world for all of South Africa’s children and, ultimately, vital to creating a prosperous and thriving South African economy. Investing in a child’s education will produce benefits many times over in the future. This brings me to the vexed matter of libraries.

The vast majority of schools in South Africa have no functional libraries. Over 85% of the population of South Africa live beyond the reach of a public library. Many of the libraries that we do have are under threat of closure because of the lack of funding. Because of shrinking municipal budgets, library hours are being severely curtailed. Some libraries - the most recent one being in Athlone - have had to close their doors because of a lack of staff.

Many children cannot study at home. The library can be a safe haven for children for studying and relaxing with a good book and, at the same time, for improving their general knowledge and keeping them out of temptation’s way. Many children do not have access to books at home, books that they can read and enjoy, particularly in their mother tongue.

The writing and publication of books in indigenous languages needs to be encouraged. I appeal to business to partner us in this quest to equip our children better for the challenges of life. We cannot allow more libraries to close. We cannot do this to our children. We need to build the culture of learning and to improve literacy and reading skills to prepare our children – our future leaders - to take the country forward to greater heights. Job creation and education go hand in hand.

As you know, libraries are an unfunded mandate. I was hoping the Minister who is responsible for libraries would be here so that I could ask him to take this matter to Cabinet but since he is not, I am going to appeal to you, Minister, to do that. Local government cannot continue to fund libraries. I appeal to you to ask your Cabinet colleagues to expedite the investigations into making more funds available, at provincial level, for devolution to local government, where there must be capacity to implement.

Creating a safer world for our children is an enormous challenge, particularly with the scourge of drugs, especially “tik”, sweeping our neighbourhoods. Children need to be protected against this monster that is tearing families apart and destroying lives. Urgent interventions are needed by government, both institutional and financial, to combat this problem that is fuelling crime and violence. NGOs and faith-based organisations need to help in this initiative.

In conclusion, I would like to read you a poem that was written by a “tik” addict:

             I destroy your homes,I tear families apart
           I take your children and that’s just the start.
       I’m more valued than diamonds, more precious than gold,
              The sorrow I bring is a sight to behold.


          If you need me ... remember ... I’m easily found,
            I live around you ... in school, and in town,
               I live with rich, I live with the poor,
          I live just down the street, and maybe next door.


              Just try me once and I might let you go,
          But if you try me twice, then I’ll own your soul!


          When I possess you, you’ll steal and you’ll lie,
            You’ll do what you have to just to get high.


          Just forget your morals and how you were raised,
        I’ll be your conscience, I will teach you many ways.


   I take kids from their parents; I take parents from their kids,
                     ... I separate friends ...

To conclude, the first prerogative of the state is to educate and to provide safety for its citizens. Enkosi kakhulu. [Thank you very much.]

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, hon members, celebrating Children’s Day means taking care of the needs of the children because children have to be born to families that really need them and that will give them comfort. They need to be loved, bonded, disciplined, given food and warmth, shelter, proper clothing, support by family members, parents or caring adults. They also need to receive emotional and legal protection from abuse, which may be detected or hidden. Children need to receive education in life skills and general developmental skills as these play an important role in their development as they get involved and become active in things. Parents, family members and caring adults in the community are mandated by the Child Care Act to ensure that children are properly cared for and that their rights are upheld. Children are a source of delight. In the African culture great care is given to children, even to the extent of erring and giving them too strong medicine or the wrong food.

Whilst we celebrate this day in the case of those children who are properly cushioned emotionally, spiritually, psychologically and physically, there are those who are crying out for our help. They are hungry and cold. They are being raped and killed in robberies and hijackings and when domestic violence takes its toll. The death of children indicates that we, as South Africans, still have to work very hard, in line with our political and economic development. The death of parents and children from HIV/Aids does not augur well at all for the entire South Africa. The mortality rate needs to be reduced. In 1998 the infant mortality rate was 45,4 per 1 000 live births and in 2003 it was 42,5 per 1 000 live births and in 1998 that of children from two to five years was 59,4 per 1 000, whilst in 2003 it was 57,6 per 1,000. This means that we still need to work very hard to ensure that our children live, because they are a scarce good.

There has been a bit of a drop and that could be as a result of everybody getting involved in health education and ensuring that children are given a good diet. HIV/Aids orphans need to be cared for by all of us. Legal and social provision have been made to give care through child support, care dependency and foster care grants. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is also involved in child legal care and protection through child justice, child centres, the Child Protection Registrar and the Child Justice Bill, which is being dealt with at the moment, as well as the Sexual Offences Bill. Childline South Africa helps in communicating awareness of crisis situations that affect children. We are all celebrating children’s rights, which are human rights. Let the children live. Where parents died, let extended families and child care centres be assisted by the government.

Foster care is not taking off quickly enough and a lot of education needs to be done in communities, and we ask that they accommodate these orphans in warm homes and in order that they could be bonded properly. It should be borne in mind that, legally, a child is someone who is under the age of 18 years. The core institutions that are touched to assist families in communities are churches - to those who go to church - social welfare development centres, health care centres or clinics and hospitals, and the justice department. These institutions not only provide or advise on care and support, but people who interact with families or communities become role models to the children that they are assisting.

Let children also be responsible so that their existence is appreciated and their lives productive. Let all children enjoy a full life, whether they are poor or disabled. Caring for and developing children is caring for and developing a nation. I thank you. [Applause.]

Me H LAMOELA: Voorsitter en kollegas, 1 Junie 2006 is Internasionale Kinderdag en ons is reeds halfpad deur Kinderbeskermingsweek. Vandag sou ek liewer wil sien dat ons die miljoene kinders, arm kinders, gestremde kinders, weeskinders, verlore en hawelose kinders en MIV/vigs-kinders trakteer asof dit hulle grootste en laaste verjaardagpartytjie ooit op aarde sal wees, dat ons liewer vir hulle kon sê, “Speel na willekeur, lag en baljaar na hartelus, want julle is vry; vry van siektes, van honger en koue, van aanranding en vrees, vry in elke sin van die woord.”

Is dit dan nie juis wat ons almal geskree het toe ons ons politieke vryheid in 1994 bekom het nie? Uiteindelik vry! Die jaar 1994 het voorwaar ’n nuwe era vir ons ingelui; die wedergeboorte van ons volk. Opgewonde en moedig het ons toe na die toekoms gestaar, maar terwyl alles so rooskleurig gelyk het, het ons nooit in ons wildste drome as ’n jong demokrasie besef dat ons voor geweldige uitdagings in ons nuwe bedeling staan waarvan die gevolge ons kinders die seerste sou tref nie. Uitdagings soos werkloosheid, swak maatskaplike ondersteuning, veranderde ouerlike patrone, gebrekkige familiestrukture, hoë misdaadsyfers, die mishandeling en moord van weerlose kinders, en dwelms het ons ingewag. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Ms H LAMOELA: Chairperson and colleagues, 1 June 2006 is International Children’s Day and we are already halfway through Child Protection Week. Today I would rather have wanted to see that we treated the millions of children, disabled children, orphans, lost and homeless children and HIV/Aids children as if we were giving them the biggest and last birthday party ever on earth, that we could rather have said to them: “Play as much as you like, laugh and frolic to your hearts’ content, because you are free; free from disease, from hunger and cold, from attacks and fear, free in every sense of the word.”

Is that not what we shouted when we gained our political freedom in 1994? Free at last! The year 1994 indeed heralded a new era for us; the rebirth of our nation. We looked to the future with excitement and courage, but where everything looked so rosy, we never realised in our wildest dreams as a young democracy that we were facing tremendous challenges in our new dispensation, the consequences of which would hit our children the hardest. Challenges such as unemployment, poor social support, changed parental patterns, dysfunctional family structures, high crime rates, the abuse and murder of defenceless children, and drugs were awaiting us.]

Chairperson, charity begins at home. We should rather investigate avenues of help for our own children, explore the fields of improvement to ensure that our own children are cared for, nurtured and fed to allow us to extend a helping hand to the many others, especially the Zimbabwean children, to name only one, in desperate need. It is clear that a significant number of children in South Africa have HIV/Aids and that many have to make a life under increasingly challenging circumstances that often include the diminishing presence of parental care and guidance.

Waarom word die gespesialiseerde Kinderbeskermingseenheid nie verder vergroot om te help met die effektiewe bestryding van aanvalle op magtelose kinders nie? Is dit dan nie juis hierdie weerlose kinders se grondwetlike reg op veiligheid en sekuriteit wat ons in die proses verkrag nie? Hoe doeltreffend is die nasionale Kinderbeskermingsregister en deur wie word dit nou eintlik gemoniteer? Waarom het alle provinsies nog nie hulle registers ingestel en is die statistiek nie op datum nie? Hoe beïnvloed die tekorte aan maatskaplike werkers hierdie proses?

Hierdie en nog baie ander vrae bly kwel. Kinders sonder familie- ondersteuning is steeds die grootste prooi vir mishandeling. Ouers en families het dus eerstens ’n kardinale plig teenoor hulle kinders, en elke poging moontlik moet aangewend word om hulle te ondersteun. Gemeenskappe, opvoeders en vriende speel ook ’n belangrike rol in die ondersteuning van weerlose kinders en hulle moet betrek word.

Elke dag moet ’n spesiale dag vir kinders wees; ’n dag om uit te sien na ’n beter môre. Kindersterftes is uiters tragies en veral in Suid-Afrika moet daar gestrewe word na beter omstandighede vir ons kinders. Intensiewe toepassing van wetgewing en ware inwerkingstelling, veral deur maatskaplike werkers en howe, kan ’n bydrae lewer tot statistiek rakende kinders, en sodoende verhoed dat slegs nege uit elke tien kinders hulle vyfde verjaardag vier. Die DA is net te gretig om ’n helpende hand te verleen. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Why is the specialised Child Protection Unit not further enlarged to help with the effective combat of attacks on vulnerable children? Is it not precisely these vulnerable children’s constitutional right to safety and security that we are violating in the process? How efficient is the Child Protection Registar and by whom is it actually being monitored? Why have all provinces not yet introduced their registers and are the statistics not up to date? How is the shortage of social workers affecting this process?

These and many other questions still give cause for concern. Children without family support are still the main targets for abuse. Parents and families therefore, in the first place, have a cardinal duty to their children, and every possible effort must be made to support them. Communities, educators and friends also play an important part in supporting defenceless children, and they must be involved.

Every day must be a special day for children; a day to look forward to a better tomorrow. The death of children is very tragic and especially in South Africa, we must strive for better circumstances for our children. Intensive enforcement of legislation and real implementation, especially by social workers and courts, can contribute to statistics regarding children, and thus prevent that only nine out of ten children celebrate their fifth birthday. The DA is only too eager to lend a helping hand.]

God bless and guide our children. Thank you.

Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Sihlalo, okudabukisayo ukuthi namuhla noma sigubha lolu suku lwezingane kodwa sikhuluma sisodwa. [Chairperson, what is pitiful today is that although we celebrate International Children’s Day, we are talking to ourselves.]

We are talking to ourselves.

Ngesilungu basho njalo ngoba uma ngithi ngiyabheka laphaya kuleziya zihlalo ezingaphezulu angiboni zingane. Ngingazi-ke noma izingane yizo lezi ezihlezi lapha phambi kwami na. [Uhleko.] Ngokomoya wesonto namuhla ngeke ngiphendulane nempicabadala lena ekhulunywa yilawa maqenjana lapha. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[In English they say it like that. When I look at the gallery, I don’t see any children. I am not sure if the children are the ones who are sitting in front of me. [Laughter.] In a spirit of peace, today I will not respond to the stories that are told by those parties over there.]

… bo mabina go tsholwa … [people who like to benefit without making any contribution.]

Kepha ngizothi, ngenxa yokuthi namuhla izingane yizona ezibalulekile, inkulumo yami ngizoyibhekisa ekugubheni lolu suku kanye futhi nasekugubheni ukuqala kweNyanga yeNtsha lapho yalimala khona mhlazane kuvuka izibhelu ngesikhathi ithi, “Phansi nge-Afrikaans.”

Kulo nyaka futhi sigubha lolu suku ngaphansi kwesihloko esithi “Amalungelo ezingane angamalungelo abo bonke abantu”. Singashiyi futhi ukuthi ukuqala kwaleli sonto yilokhu ebisithi yi-Child Protection Week ngaphansi kwesihloko ebesithi “Imiphakathi enakekelayo ivikela izingane zayo”.

Kuningi esekushiwo ngendlela izingane zethu ezihlukunyezwa ngayo. Abakhohlwe ukukusho ukuthi ezinye zezingane azondliwa futhi mhlawumbe uma singenza kahle ucwaningo, nakhona lapha kumalungu kukhona abangazondli izingane zabo. Kuzofuneka labo-ke sibathathele izinyathelo ezinqala.

Siyazi futhi ukuthi abanye abazali bathuma izingane ukuthi zihambe ziyocela izimali lapha emigwaqeni. Uma ngabe zibuya zingaphethe lutho, ziyakhahlelwa futhi zilale ngaphandle. Uma abazali bazo sebeyitholile le mali, bayayithatha bese bephuza utshwala ngayo.

Abanye abazali, uma beqeda ukuhola le mali kadekle, baye bathathe yona le mali bayothenga amaphenduka bese bephema nezinwele. Abanye obaba baze bakhuthaze amakhosikazi abo ukuthi nawo awakhulelwe phela ukuze bayithole lemali. Abanye babulala izingane bese bethatha izitho zazo zomzimba becabanga ukuthi amabhizinisi abo azothuthuka kepha kungabi njalo.

Izingane eziningi azisenabo obaba ngenxa yokuthi selokhu bahamba ekuseni bethi bayothenga isinkwa, kuze kube namhlanje abakabuyi. Asazi noma bakwaMayemaye, kwaNdongaziyaduma noma bahlezi khona lapha eKapa lodumo, bayabhukuda, beqa amagagasi. Abanye abazali abaholela zona lezi zingane badlala amadayisi ngale mali. Abanye abazondli izingane zabo kanti abanye futhi benza sengathi le mali ngeyabo futhi kuyilungelo labo ukuthi bayihole.

Kulo nyaka uMongameli uye washo ngesikhathi evula iPhalamende wathi lo nyaka unyaka wethemba. Yebo, unyaka wethemba ngoba izingane eziningi sezinamalungelo. Yebo, unyaka wethemba ngoba sesithi …] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[However, because the children are the ones who are important, my speech will be based on this day and commemorate the beginning of Youth Month, the month in which they were injured during the uprising, when they were saying “Away with Afrikaans”.

This year, we are celebrating the year under the slogan “Children’s rights are human rights. “Let us not forget that this week is Child Protection Week, under the slogan “Caring communities protect their children”.

I lot has been said about the way children are abused. What they forgot to mention is that some children are not fed and maybe if we can conduct a proper investigation, even amongst the members, you will find those who don’t feed their children. We need to take drastic measures against those people.

We also know that some parents send children to beg for money on the streets. If they come back empty-handed, they are beaten and they must sleep outside. If the parents get this money, they take it and buy alcohol.

Some parents, after getting grants, take this money and buy cosmetics and have their hair permed. Some men encourage their wives to fall pregnant so that they would receive this money. Some kill their children and use their body parts with the hope that their businesses will do well, but they don’t.

Many children don’t have fathers, because they had left on the pretext of going out to buy bread, but they never came back. We don’t know if they are in Mayemaye in Johannesburg or whether they are here in Cape Town, swimming and jumping in the waves. Some parents who are getting grants gamble with this money. Some do not look after their children, while others act as if this money belongs to them and they have a right to get it.

In his state of the nation address, the President said that this is a year of hope. Indeed, this is a year of hope, because a lot of children have rights. Indeed, this is a year of hope, because we are saying …]

… bana pele. [… children first.]

Unyaka wethemba ngoba kuhulumeni oholwa uKhongolose izingane zonke uma ngabe ziqeda ukuzalwa nje ezibhedlela sezithola izitifiketi zokuzalwa. Izingane ziya emtholampilo mahhala futhi sezifunda mahhala bese zithola nemali kadekle.

Uma ngiphetha inkulumo yami, bengishilo ngathi okubuhlungu ukuthi sikhuluma sisodwa. Kungaba mnandi ukuthi ngesinye isikhathi kesibe nazo lezi zingane lapha, sixoxe nazo, sizibonise ukuthi yiliphi iqhaza okufanele zilibambe emphakathini; nanokuthi, beyizingane kufuneka senze kanjani ukuze bakhule kahle, bephethwe kahle futhi bondlekile. Okunye futhi ukuthi izingane nazo zinamalungelo futhi kufanele kube khona ezikwenzayo.

Izingane eziningi muva nje uma uthi uyazikhuza zishaya ucingo zilubhekise kwi-Childline zithi uyazihlukumeza. Izingane zethu namuhla asisakwazi ukuzikhuza, kube kuyimina engazala ingane. Umntwana akakaze angivotele ukuthi ngibe umzali wakhe kepha izingane zanamhlanje azisaziphathi kahle. Besisabona nasemaphepheni kulawa masonto edlulile ezinye izingane zilala emigwaqeni. Njengoba zilala emigwaqeni nje yingoba zithi emakhaya aziphathwanga kahle, ngakho zikhetha ukuthi ziyolala emigwaqeni. Kuyasho ukuthi izingane azisafuni ukuhlala ngaphansi kwenhlonipho yabazali. Uma sengiphetha, ngesiNgisi baye bathi …] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[It is the year of hope, because the ANC-led government gives all children birth certificates immediately after birth. Children are treated free of charge in clinics and they have free education. They also get grants.

In conclusion, I said it is a pity that we are talking to ourselves. It would be great if one day we could have children here, talk to them and see what role they can play in the community. We also have to see what we can do for the children so that they may grow up being treated well and in good health. The other thing is that children have rights and there must be something that they should do.

Lately, lot of children have been calling Childline to report that you are abusing them when you try to advise them. Today, we can’t control our children, even though it is I who gave birth to that child. A child never voted for me to be her parent, but the behaviour of children nowadays is unbecoming. In the newspapers last week we saw that children sleeping on the street. They sleep on the street, because they claim that they are not treated well at home, therefore, they choose to sleep on the street. It demonstrates that children don’t want to be under their parents’ guidance. In English, they say …]

… it takes a village to raise a child, and my child is your child and your child is my child. We need to support our children in distress and emphasise the need to strengthen families to provide a strong social foundation for children because a well-functioning family teaches children acceptable societal norms and values. Children need to be nurtured, they need to be supported and they need to be provided with opportunities for growth.

We need to promote a spirit of caring in our communities by raising awareness of childcare. We need to promote access to child support grants, and we also need to encourage our children to participate in programmes at schools and in communities.

Masingakhuthazi abantwana bethu ukuthi bahlale phambi kukamabonakude. Bese beshilo ukuthi izingane eziningi zibuka o-Emmanuelle laphayana komabonakude ebusuku. Wena usuke ucabanga ukuthi izingane zilele kanti zibuka lokhu okungafanelanga ukuthi zikubuke futhi nangesiNgisi bathi … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.) [Let us not encourage our children to watch television. They say that a lot of children watch Emanuelle at night. As a parent, you always think that they are asleep, while they are watching things that they are not supposed to watch. In English they say …]

… children must be seen and heard.

Ngifuna ukuphinda ngithi, uma sengiphetha: Malibongwe igama labantwana! [Ihlombe.] [I want to repeat this: “Malibongwe igama labantwana! [Praise the name of the children!] [Applause.]]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon member. I do believe that all members are going to celebrate International Children’s Day. I also believe that members …

… ambonile umama uMchunu ekhumbula isikhathi sakhe eseyingane ngendlela abhampe ngayo ngesikhathi esukuma esihlalweni. [… saw Mrs Mchunu being nostalgic about the days of her youth in the way she walked when she stood up.]

The Council adjourned at 16:04. ____

           ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEER REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bill by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

(1)    The JTM has reconsidered the classification of the Deeds
     Registries Amendment Bill [B 5 – 2006], and has, on 31 May 2006, in
     terms of Joint Rule 160(3) classified it as a section 75 Bill
     (original classification, see Announcements, Tablings and Committee
     Reports, 19 May 2006, p 725).

1. Draft Bill submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(1)     Repeal of the Black Administration Act and Amendment of Certain
     Laws Amendment Bill, 2006, submitted by the Minister for Justice
     and Constitutional Development on 1 June 2006. Referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and
     the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs.

1. Introduction of Bill

 (1)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
      a) Repeal of the Black Administration Act and Amendment of
         Certain Laws Amendment Bill [B 11 – 2006] (National Assembly –
         sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
         introduction published in Government Gazette No 28898 of 31
         May 2006.]


     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly, as well
     as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 1 June 2006.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

a) Activity Report of the Auditor-General for 2004-2005 [RP 231-2005].

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - T060601e-insert1 – PAGES 963 - 1046