TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2007 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:00.

House Chairperson Mr K O Bapela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

                          NOTICE OF MOTION

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Does any hon member wish to give notice of a motion? Are there any motions without notice?

Mrs S M CAMERER: This is notice of a motion, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): We are doing motions without notice now. Remember I started with notices of motion and there was no one.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, may I draw your attention to a point, please, Sir, if I may. You moved on very quickly from notices of motion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Well, I looked around and there was no response.

Mr M J ELLIS: I would welcome the opportunity, Sir, if you would let Mrs Camerer please give notice of a motion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Fine.

Mrs S M CAMERER: Thank you, Chair. I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House-

  1) debates the increasingly poor performance of our courts, including
     the following negative trends –

        a) huge and increasing backlogs on both criminal and civil court
           rolls;


        b) short and decreasing court sitting hours;


        c) slow rates of finalisation of cases; and

        d) increasing case cycle times and large number of withdrawals;
           and

  2) further debates what steps are being taken and must be taken to
     rectify the situation.

 CONGRATULATIONS TO THE BLUE BULLS ON WINNING VODACOM SUPER 14 FINAL

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr T D LEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House –

(1) extends its congratulations to the Blue Bulls on winning the Vodacom Super 14 final on Saturday, 19 May 2007;

(2) recognises that this is the first time a South African team has won this trophy;

(3) further notes that this is also the first time a Vodacom Super 14 final has been held on South African soil since the tournament began twelve years ago; and

(4) further recognises that it bodes well for our chances in the 2007 Rugby World Cup to be held in France. Agreed to.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, may I address you on that motion without notice, please, Sir? The first part of it reads “extends its congratulations to the Blue Bulls on winning the Vodacom Super 14 final”. I want to say I don’t think all members of this House actually would go along with that particular statement, particularly those of us from KwaZulu-Natal, the land of the Sharks. Nevertheless, I do want to say that in the best interests of South African rugby, we all will support the motion.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): I hope that, being a Shark supporter yourself, you are fine with it. Minister, is your hand raised?

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chair, I merely wanted to enquire whether the Chair is in order to suppress the opinions of some of the teams in this House. [Laughter.]

Agreed to.

                   PUBLIC SECTOR WAGE NEGOTIATIONS

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr P J GOMOMO (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC noted the latest developments with respect to public sector wage negotiations. The right to collective bargaining is enshrined in our Constitution. We urge all the parties to work towards achieving real agreement on salaries and wages.

The packages agreed upon should encourage improved services to the public through such measures as performance-related increases, pay progression, a special dispensation for specific categories of employees such as teachers and nurses, and improved allowances and conditions of service such as medical aid and leave, because they are a necessity.

We urge and encourage all parties involved in the dispute to return to the negotiation table so that matters that are under dispute can be successfully concluded in the interests of all South Africans, taking the interests of the country on board. Thank you. [Applause.]

                 PLANT NOT CLOSED DOWN IN MOSSEL BAY

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr M SWART (DA): Chair, hon member Lance Greyling told this House on 15 May 2007 that his party, the ID, was successful in having a pole treatment plant at Tergniet near Mossel Bay closed down due to the health hazard the said plant posed to the neighbouring residents. The owner of the plant assured me that the plant is not closed down and their production is continuing as normal. Although the plant will be moved to another site shortly, the owner is in possession of written permission from the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to continue the operation of the plant in its existing position until March 2008.

In a personal interview with hon members Greyling and De Lille, the owner conveyed these facts to them and they indicated their acceptance and understanding of the situation. At the public meeting with residents, however, the two hon members told the residents that they had managed to convince an official from the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to close down the plant with immediate effect and hon Greyling thanked the official for his excellent and speedy attention to the matter.

Questions about this official were posed to the hon Minister as the said individual travelled to Southern Cape by air at state expense and he not only attended the public meeting with the ID, but also addressed the meeting. Given the true facts of the matter, I hear that the plant is still fully operational and legally so. The statement by the hon Greyling is clearly misleading to both Parliament and the public. This is unacceptable and naughty. The ID should know that closure of the plant will put 150 people out of work immediately and I don’t know whether this is ID policy or not.

                         ESKOM ENERGY DEMAND

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr H J BEKKER (IFP): Chairman, the bitterly cold weather that is being experienced in parts of our country brings hardship and suffering to many people. These hardships will be increased if, due to Eskom’s lack of capacity to deal with the extra demand for energy, more blackouts and power shortages are experienced.

Considering the many blackouts and power shortages that we have had to endure, Eskom’s performance doesn’t inspire great confidence. We are aware of the expansion programme for the long-term future, but we trust that Eskom does have contingency plans in the short term in order to meet the extra demands and energy for this winter.

A very real danger this time of year is that of fires, especially in informal dwellings. Due to the sudden drop in temperature many people must, of necessity, find ways to keep warm and this in turn increases the risk of fires and the potential danger to their lives.

Incorrectly connected gas cylinders, leaks in pipes, paraffin stoves and illegal electricity connections are just some of the potential dangers and causes of fire that people are exposed to as they try to fend off the winter cold and keep warm. We, therefore, urge them to be very careful and aware of the many potential risks and dangers that they face in trying to keep themselves warm. Thank you.

DEPUTY MINISTER PREVENTED FROM ADDRESSING GATHERING IN MAQUASSI HILLS

                        (Member’s Statement)

Rre O M MOGALE (ANC): Modulasetulo, ke kopa go dira kanego mabapi le dikhuduego tse di diragalang kwa Maquassi Hills. Mokgatlho wa ANC o kgala thata dikhuduego mo Maquassi hills, segolo thata mo motseng wa Tswelelang.

Mo malobeng Motlatsa tona wa Tlhaeletsano Padayachie, a le mo lenaneong la Imbizo mo motseng wa Tswelelang, setlhotšhwana sa baša sa mo ganela go buisana le baagi e bile ba gana le gore lekwalo lwa bona lwa dingongorego le arabelwe. Bosigogare jwa 20 Motsheganong, ba ile ba tswala mmila wa N12 le go kgoreletsa dipalangwa go feta ka ntlha ya maparego a a tlhomilweng mo tseleng.

Lefapha la Pusoselegae le kgotlatoropo ya Maquassi Hills ba ile ba tshwara kopano le baemedi go ka leka go arabela mathata a a aparetseng motse wa Maquassi Hills, mme ba iteile sefolletse.

Re le mokgatlho wa ANC, re itse gore moagi mongwe le mongwe mo Aforika Borwa o na le tetla ya go ngongorega le go tshwara dikopano ga mmogo le go gwanta ka kagiso kwa ntle le go kgoreletsa ba bangwe. ANC e kgala ka bogale dikhuduego tse di diragalang mo motseng wa Tswelelang kwa Maquassi Hills. Re ikuela mo baaging gore ba fedise dikhuduego mme ba ikamanye le dipuisano le kgotlatoropo go rarabolola mathata a bona. Ke a leboga. (Translation of Setswana member’s statement follows.)

[Mr O M MOGALE (ANC): Chairperson, I would like to express my view about the protest actions in Maquassi Hills. The ANC strongly condemns these protest actions particularly those in Tswelelang.

Recently, a group of Tswelelang youths denied Deputy Minister Padayachee permission to address the community and, furthermore, denied him a platform to give them a response to their letter of demands. During the middle of the night of the 20th May, they barricaded the N12 road, hence, preventing vehicles from passing.

The Department of Local Government and Maquassi Hills City Council held a meeting with the representatives of the protesting group in an attempt to resolve the problems in Maquassi Hills, but it was all in vain.

We, as the ANC know that each and every citizen of South Arica has the right to protest, to hold meetings and to hold peaceful demonstrations without inconveniencing others. The ANC strongly condemns these protest actions of Tswelelang in Maquassi Hills. Therefore, e are appealing to the community to end these protest actions and start negotiations with the city council in order to solve their problems. Thank you.]

                         CONFLICT IN DARFUR


                        (Member’s Statement)

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP agrees with the Pan African Parliament for labelling the international community’s role in solving the conflict in Sudan’s Darfur region as unclear and ineffective.

According to the UN, the Darfur conflict between rebels and government forces has cost 200 000 deaths and led to 2 million people being displaced since February 2003. We know that Sudan contests that figure, saying the death toll is only 9 000, which is too much.

The UN peacekeepers sent to Darfur are not enough and as a result they are being undermined by the Sudanese forces. Recent air raids by the Sudanese forces on at least five Darfur villages, which observers say were both indiscriminate and disproportionate, must be condemned in the strongest possible terms as they violated international law and human rights law. These attacks have left numerous civilian casualties, among them schoolchildren, and the destruction of property.

In 2003, the government of Sudan and the SLA signed a ceasefire agreement. In addition, the parties agreed to lay the foundation for a lasting and comprehensive peace in order to achieve socio-economic development. They also committed themselves to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian assistance and undertook to resume negotiations with a view to reaching a comprehensive agreement.

The peace was short-lived. [Time expired.]

                PRIVATE FUNDING OF POLITICAL PARTIES


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mrs P DE LILLE (ID): Chairperson, today I want to call on Parliament as the legislative arm of government to engage in debate regarding the issue of private funding of political parties. Last week the President confirmed that Parliament is the appropriate forum where all political parties can engage on this issue that has led to so many scandals.

It is now being two years since the Idasa court case where the ANC told the court that the matter of private funding will be dealt with by Parliament and yet there is still no Bill to date. I therefore call on Parliament today to establish a special committee to investigate the issue and make sure that a draft Bill will be before Parliament soon. The matter has been dragging on for far too long and must be addressed now before another scandal implicates the reputation of the government and this Parliament. Thank you, Chairperson.

                        PROBLEMS IN EDUCATION


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mna M J MALAHLELA (ANC): Modulasetulo, taba ye re tlo e apa ka Setlokwa naase, re bontšhe gore … [O tsenwa ganong] Batho ba ga ba nkwe Modulasetulo. Ba homotše! Nka se re gola ke apa, le bona ba apa. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows)

[Mr M J MALAHLELA (ANC): Chairperson, we are going to discuss this issue in Sepedi today, to indicate that … [Interjections.] Chairperson, people do not understand me. They are quiet. They cannot be speaking at the same time with me.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Hon members, we are listening to the hon member’s statement, please.

Mna M J MALAHLELA: A ke bontšhe gore kua Botlokwa ga-Mmachaka Maimela, go la Limpopo, go na le dikolo tše tharo – Mpatapata, Dendron le St Brendans – tšeo baithuti ba tšona mo mengwageng ye meraro ya go feta ba bego ba phasa ka dipersente tše lekgolo, kudu ge go lebeletšwe mphato wa Marematlou, re apa ka dithuto tša Mahlale le Dipalontshetshere.

Bjale re šetše re dio ra gore mo re humanego ba go tšwafa, re apile le Molekgotlaphethiši wa tša Thuto, Dr Aaron Motswaledi gore nke re boneng gore re tlo dira bjang gore re ape le bona gore ba se sa tšwafa gore bana ba rena ba phase. A ke re re šetše re lebeletše gore o tšere mo Joyce Mashamba a tlogetšeng gona?

Bjale Ntlo ye ka mokgwa wo e tletšego ka gona e re lena bana ba dikolo tša Mpatapata, Dendron le St Brendans, tšwelang pele ka wona mokgwa woo le dirago ka gona gore le kgone go aga setšhaba. Bao ba šetšego re tlo bona gore re tšwa bjang ka bona.

Ke a go leboga Modulasetulo. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Mr M J MALAHLELA: Let me indicate that there are three schools in Botlokwa, ga-Machaka Maimela, in Limpopo, with a 100% matriculation pass rate for the past consecutive three years. The schools are Mpatapata, Dendron and St Brendans. I am referring to science and mathematics.

We have already appealed to the MEC of Education, Dr Aaron Motswaledi to address the other schools whose performance was low, to work hard so that the learners can pass their exams. This House therefore hopes that the learners from Mpatapata, Dendron and St Brendan’ Schools will keep it up so as to build a better nation. We will figure out what to do with the others who could not make it.

Thank you Chairperson. [Applause.]]

          PROTESTS OVER POOR SERVICE DELIVERY IN NORTH WEST


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr I S MFUNDISI(UCDP): Chairperson, the issue of unrest tends to threaten the security of the country. We have noticed people taking to the streets complaining about poor service delivery in the wake of unfulfilled promises.

The North West has turned into a playground for discontent. It started with Ramotshere Moilwa, then Ditsobotla, then Boikhutso and then villages around Mafikeng. The Maquassi Hills Municipality seems set to take the bacon in their efforts to show how they have been failed by the incumbent ANC-led council and provincial government. But we in the UCDP maintain that two wrongs won’t make a right. There is no need to destroy what we have and impale people in a quest for what you look for.

Just when we thought the repairs to the N12 were being effected we experience these unruly elements who have placed towns such as Wolmaransstad and Bloemhof under siege by making it difficult and unsafe to use the road as they attack vehicles passing by.

The safety of members of the public is threatened. It has come out clearly that the powers that be are mere ``placeholders’’. The supposed local leaders seem to have hibernated.

There is need for leadership such as that shown by Willie Madisha, President of Cosatu and Sadtu, who took it upon himself to address his constituency and direct them to their positions at schools in Khutsong and be ready to teach.

It is this type of leadership that has been displaced by Councillor Aaron Bodumela of the UCDP in Tswaing who took it upon himself to intervene at Ottosdal when the marauding youths got xenophobic and torched and looted shops belonging to aliens while those in charge have disappeared into thin air. [Time expired.]

                     RAIL COMMUTER ACTION GROUP


                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr C M MORKEL (PIM): Chairperson, on behalf of the PIM, I hereby wish to make a statement that the House notes that the Rail Commuters Action Group that represents about 50 victims of serious crimes on trains, has today agreed to a proposal by the PIM that it seeks representation on the Western Cape Provincial Community Police Board so that it could play an oversight and monitoring role in co-operation with the Western Cape SAPS Railway Unit.

In the absence of a formal mechanism to do so at present, we will therefore today be conveying this message of constructive engagement to the Minister to deepen the debate in the Extended Public Committee during the budget vote debate on Safety and Security later today. I thank you, Chairperson.

                     PROBLEM DAY’S DELAY BY SAA


                        (Member’s Statement)

Dr S M VAN DYK (DA): Chairperson, the SAA is under fire again. The recent delay of Flight SA208 from Washington to Johannesburg by one day, serves to cast further doubt over the state’s management of South Africa’s already ailing national carrier.

Reports indicate that the cabin crew disobeyed the flight captain’s orders to exceed their maximum flying time by the three hours permitted under Civil Aviation Authority - CAA - regulations.

If the cabin crew were within their rights to refuse the flight captain’s instructions, it would mean that SAA policy was not in harmony with CAA regulations and would beg the question why there were no contingency measures in place, especially since long-haul flights are often delayed for a variety of reasons.

Since the cabin crew acted against regulations, it would suggest that staff at the SAA no longer have any regard for the implication of their actions on the state of the airline as they have been lulled into a false sense of security by the constant bail-outs to the national carrier by the ANC government.

Whatever the case may be, the incident with Flight SA208 is hardly the type of episode that one would expect to associate with the carrier that lays claim to being ``Proudly South African’’. In fact, it is rather the opposite. Thank you, Chairperson.

                       REPOSSESSING OF HOUSES

                        (Member’s Statement)

Nksz N C KONDLO: Sihlalo, i-Motherwell sisixeko esikumasipala i-Nelson Mandela Metro, esinabantu abangaphaya kwama-500 000. Yindawo ethwaxwa yindlala, ubundlobongela, amanqanaba asezantsi kwezemfundo kwakunye nentswela-ngqesho. Kangangendlela ekungelula ngayo kubantu base-Motherwell iintsapho zale ndawo zithathelwa izindlu zazo ziibhanki umhla nezolo.

Maxa wambi ayisekho kangako nale mali iseleyo ukuba umnikazi ayigqibe ukuyihlawula indlu leyo. Yakuba iyithathile ibhanki iyithengisa ngesixa- mali esingaphantsi kweso ibanjwa sona ngumnini-mzi, emva koko iphinde ilindele ukuhlawulwa umahluko kwangulo mnini-ndlu uthathelwe indlu, phofu ngenxa yokungabi namali.

Sicela ke ukuba urhulumente kaKhongolosi, phantsi kwelaa Sebe loBonelelo ngeziZindlu, eze necebo eliphilisayo lokuhlangabezana nale ngxaki bantyumpa- ntyumpeka kuyo abantu bethu. Simthembile ke lo rhulumente ukuba uza kubophula abantu bethu kule ngxaki bajongene nayo.

Sitsho, kuba siyazi ukuba abaqalayo ukuthenga izindlu, nabakwinqanaba elithile bayahlangatyezwa ngulo rhulumente ngokuthi abonelele abantu ngezo mali bakhelwa ngazo izindlu ze-RDP. Ndithetha ke mna ngabantu abaselungelweni lezo zindlu.

Kananjalo sicela ukuba urhulumente avuselele elaa phulo lakhe neebhanki lokwakhela abantu abakule ngxaki yezindlu. Ndiyabulela, Sihlalo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa member’s statement follows.)

[Miss N C KONDLO: Chairperson, Motherwell is a town within the Nelson Mandela Metro, with a population of more than 500 000. It is a place that is ravaged by hunger, crime, high illiteracy and unemployment. This can be borne out by the huge number of people who lose their houses on a daily basis because the banks are repossessing them.

Sometimes you’ll find that the balance outstanding is very small. After the bank has repossessed the house it then sells it for an amount below the outstanding balance, and the previous owner still has to pay the difference after the house has been sold.

We are appealing to the ANC-led government under the leadership of the Department of Housing, to come up with a plan that will help our people that are faced with this problem.

We say this, because we know that first-time buyers and some in certain categories are assisted by the government, by providing them with the subsidies for the RDP houses that are built for them. I am referring to people who qualify for those subsidies.

Once again we appeal to the government to revive their joint campaign with the banks to build for the people who are faced with this housing problem. I thank you. [Applause.]]

               TEENAGE PREGNANCIES IN THE EASTERN CAPE

                        (Member’s Statement)

Dr U ROOPNARAIN (IFP): Chairperson, the IFP notes with concern that more than 5 000 Eastern Cape schoolgirls, 55 of them in Grade V, fell pregnant in 2006. This means that the Eastern Cape is one of the provinces with the highest teenage pregnancies in the country. The Eastern Cape figure was almost double that of Gauteng, which had 2 336 Jim-slim pregnancies, and five times higher than that of KwaZulu- Natal.

Clearly, these figures are shocking and deplorable. This is unacceptable and we believe that life and health orientation programmes should be mandatory. We cannot watch passively while children take on the role of parents.

The Department of Social Development needs to get more actively involved to address this and reassess the child grant as one of the contributing factors to the high rate of teenage pregnancies. As the IFP, we eagerly await the White Paper on family values. I thank you.

               Siyazikakamisa WOMEN’S BUILDING PROJECT

                        (Member’s Statement)

uMnu S E KHOLWANE (ANC): Sihlalo, singuleNhlangano yaKhongolo se sifuna kuhalalisela bomake base Draaikraal kumasipala waseThaba Chweu eMpumalanga. Labomake basukume phansi babumba inhlangano yabo leyibitwa ngekutsi “Siyazikakamisa Building Project”. Loku kubonisa kahle kamhlophe kutsi yini lengentiwa bomake basemakhaya, nabasukuma babumbane, babe munye bakhe tinhlangano letingacosha likati etiko.

NjengaKhongolose sitsi siyanihalalisela nine bomake base Draaikraal. Chubekani njalo. Shangatsi bonkhe bomake baleminye imikhakha nabo banganilandzela basukume bente loku lenikwentile. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of Siswati member’s statement follows.)

[Mr S E KHOLWANE: Chairperson, as the ANC we would like to congratulate the women of the Thaba Chweu Municipality of Draaikraal in Mpumalanga. These women stood up and formed an organisation called “Siyazikakamisa Building Project”. This shows clearly what can be done by women in the rural areas if they stand up and unite to form organisations that can improve their socio-economic dispensation.

As the ANC, we say congratulations to these women of Draaikraal. We hope that women from all the different sectors will learn from you and do the same. I thank you.]

          BATHO BONKE SHARES AWARDED TO INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mr M J ELLIS (DA): Chairperson, an article published in the City Press over the weekend revealed that Mr Tokyo Sexwale gave free Batho Bonke shares valued at R69 a share to a number of influential people. Those were the following: Former justice Minister Penuell Maduna’s wife got shares worth about R5,3 million; Matthews Phosa, the former Presidential contender, got shares worth R15 million; Vuka Tshabalala, the KwaZulu-Natal Judge President, got shares worth R6,9 million. Some that also got shares were Thami Didiza - husband to Minister of Public Works, Thoko Didiza. He received R3,2 million worth of shares. Sophie Mokoena, the SABC’s acting political editor, got R3,2 million worth of shares, and there are many others.

If this is the case, it creates the impression that the repeatedly empowered Mr Sexwale may be purposely leveraging his incredible wealth to sway influential ANC functionaries in the public sector and elsewhere. This might also raise serious questions about the efficacy of Mr Sexwale’s election and his suitability for high office; especially should he become eligible for election as South Africa’s president. Certainly, Mr Chairperson, such a position will require the utmost integrity and unshakable moral character.

The DA will attempt to ascertain whether the alleged share awards may have caused any conflict of interest and will use all avenues open to it to ensure that state functions are not abused in the interests of particular leadership factions within the ruling party. [Time expired.]

              PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION REPORT ADOPTION

                        (Member’s Statement)

Mnu N E GCWABAZA (ANC): Sihlalo, ikomiti lezemisebenzi kahulumeni liyawamukela umbiko Wekhomishana Yomnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni ngodaba lokusebenza kweminyango yemisebezi kahulumeni yonkana. Umbiko Wekhomishana Yomnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni ukubeka obala okuhle osekwenziwe uhulumeni kaKhongolose. Futhi lo mbiko ubuye ubalule nezinselelo ezisekhona ekwenzeni ngcono isimo sokusebenza koMnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni Nozokuphatha, kanye nokubhekela izidingo ngendlela egculisayo emphakathini.

Kungalesi sizathu, Ikomiti Lomnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni Nezokuphatha lenza umhlangano obizwa nge-round table discussion ukuze namanye amakomiti neminyango kahulumeni ilalele lo mbiko, bese ithatha izinselelo ezibalulekile eziqondene naleyo Minyango ukuze kube khona ukuxoxisana okujulile.

Njengekomiti elibhekele ukusebenza koMnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni Nezokuphatha, sigqugquzela-ke ukuthi la makomiti abhekele ukusebenza kweMinyango … (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr N E GCWABAZA (ANC): Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration adopts the report of the Public Service Commission regarding the operation of all government departments. The report of the Public Service Commission states clearly all the good things done by the ANC-led government. This report also points out the challenges that still exist which hinder the smooth operation of the Department of Public Service and Administration so that it can provide services to the community in a satisfactory way.

It was because of this reason that the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration formed a forum called the Round Table Discussion so that other committees and government departments can also look at this report, and make amends wherever necessary so that there can be extensive debates thereafter.

As a Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration we, therefore, encourage the other portfolio committees to …]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon member, your time is up. Hon members, we have been strict with time because of the EPCs that are going to be starting later. So, that is why we have been so strict with time – if you could bear with us.

                   PUBLIC SECTOR WAGE NEGOTIATIONS


                        (Minister’s Response) The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you very much, Chairperson and also the members of this House. The first statement that I would like to comment on is the one around the current wage negotiations. I also want to restate the fact that the government is committed to collective bargaining. We are also committed to resolving this matter in a manner that does not necessarily take into account or that excludes industrial action, if possible.

We do so against the background that where we fully acknowledge the constitutional right of all workers to unionisation, as well as their right to engage in industrial action, especially those services other than essential services. On the principles that were reflected in the statement, one welcomes those principles and I want to state that the principles that the government has reflected is that there is a need for a salary increase, which is inflation-related in order to protect the buying power of public servants.

If you look at the offer by government, at 6% it is above the Consumer Price Index - CPIX at this point. We are also committed to the principle to attract and retain skills in the Public Service, and to that end we have reflected in the comprehensive package that is on the table the need to ensure that we have an occupation-specific dispensation for health workers as well as for legal professionals. This can be and should be extended to educators, warders and social workers and it will cover 68% of the Public Service.

The occupation specific dispensation is one that actually looks at providing market-related salaries to special categories of workers so that we are able to appropriately compensate workers who may not have had appropriation progression or career-pathing in the past. This is the reason why we are looking at the new salary structure that takes into account market factors; and ensures that professionals receive real salary increases over a number of years in service whereby they comply with specific criteria.

The third principle is the principle to improve the capacity of the state through job creation. Hence the amount of money in the budget does look very specifically at the area of job creation. The fourth principle is improving the performance of public services and I think if we listen to the comment around the overall need for improvement of public services, there is a need to incentivise public servants, taking into account their better performance and ensuring that they aspire towards that.

On the issue of making provision for specific allowances the comprehensive package also takes that into account and here we are looking at the revision of certain allowances where danger allowances and night shifts will be increased by 25%.

There is also the improvement of medical for members of gyms and finally we are looking at the alignment of the Public Service with the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, which will ensure that we pay half for Sundays and for public holidays.

Noting the noise level in this House it is clear that parliamentarians are not interested in wage negotiations, Chairperson. So, I would assume that at this point in time the member’s statement is not for the benefit of Parliamentarians. As government, we are indeed committed to resolving the matter in a nonconfrontational way, because we do not believe that there is a need for brinkmanship by any side.

On the second statement that dealt with the state of the Public Service Report, I would want to say that we really laud the committee for having a round-table that brought various government departments together to focus on that report. I think it is a matter that Parliament as well needs to take into account, as well.

The Public Service Commission will have a further round-table on 6 June 2007 that will further engage with their findings on this report. It is important for us to ensure that there is a constant monitoring and evaluation of performance in the Public Service and I think we should applaud the commission for the consistent report that has come out and has allowed us an opportunity to focus on areas that must be improved across the Public Service.

           BATHO BONKE SHARES AWARDED TO INFUENTIAL PEOPLE
                         CONFLICT IN DARFUR
DEPUTY MINISTER PREVENTED FROM ADDRESSING GATHERING IN MAQUASSI HILLS

                        (Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, I would like to start off by saying that it is important in this House to assure the people of South Africa that the ANC will always deliver to them leadership based on its commitment and dedication to the interest of the people.

In the decades since the ANC was formed, it has never been one of its principles to elect leadership on the basis of how wealthy people are and it would give to the country on that basis. If there are any doubts about the position of the ANC on this matter, I would like to place on record that we have no intention whatsoever, in the movement to adulterate this principle.

Leadership of our movement has come from rich and poor ranks of the movement and it will always remain that way. I think it is quite unfair to suggest that if there are some individuals in the movement who were given certain shares in companies, then there will be claims that it was for the purpose of adulterating the composition and the quality of the leadership of the movement. I just want to make that assurance to the country and to the House. With regard to the issue of Khutsong, I would like to say that an abiding responsibility for all of the political parties of our country and leaders is to continue to educate the masses of our country as to the provisions of our Constitution. A very wrong and dangerous impression has been created that provinces are countries different from each other.

Provinces are nothing but administrative units in which we cut up the country for the efficient running of affairs of the people of the country. There are no people in any provinces who get better favours from this government, from provincial government to anywhere else. It is therefore crucial that we educate our people. Whether they are in province A or B, they are under the same government and the provincial boundaries, which do not require passports to cross in any event, must not be regarded as borders.

People who live in the Eastern Cape and work in Gauteng or the Free State or the Western Cape; people who live in the Western Cape access medical care anywhere in the country; in any province like any other. There is simply no service that is not available to the people of our country in all of the provinces. But when false impressions are created of the nature that if you are in the Free State you get better service than those in Limpopo or other provinces, then we create artificial problems, which result in the kind of statements which we have in the present time in Khutsong. I think it is important that all of send out that message, because if we allow for any misunderstanding or reversal of decisions of government purely on the basis of these false impressions then we will throw the country into a very serious crisis.

With regard to the issue of Darfur, South Africa does not need to make an investigation as such. We are already present in the Darfur by way of the armed forces of our country, which are deployed there as part of the peace- keeping operations and as part of the African Union Force.

We are therefore in a position on a daily basis to monitor the situation to give feedback to our government of reliable information of the situation on the ground. There are, of course, difficulties, primarily because of the positions the government of Sudan has taken from time to time, especially in relation to the United Nations.

We are quite confident at this time that even as Africa goes to the next summit of Heads of States, we are in a position to continue to unravel the problems that were there, and of course we will keep the country informed as to what progress is made. I don’t think that there should be alarm because there is a united voice on the part of the leadership of the continent that the Sudan conflict must be resolved and that the African Union cannot solve it alone, without the participation of the United Nations Organisation. Thank you.

                 TEENAGE PREGNANCIES IN EASTERN CAPE


                        (Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: I just want to respond to the statement that the child support grant is the cause of early pregnancy amongst school children. It is not true! The research that has been done by three universities - University of Pretoria, the University of the Western Cape and Oxford University – have, over the past years, proved beyond any reasonable doubt that there is nothing of the sort.

The issue at stake for the hon member is that she must think a little bit broader, because the rights that African children are getting today are the same rights that were received by all other non-African groups before 1994. We do not see why she should be worried about that. All of us should be aware of the plight of children in South Africa today. Secondly, we should be aware of the breakdown of the families in South Africa.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon Minister, just respond to the statement that the hon member made.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: It is the duty of parents and the community to look after the children and to ensure that children are brought up correctly, respectfully, and according to the culture, language and choice of each and every person. That is the issue! If she is a mother she would ensure that she looks after her own child and the children of her neighbour and the children of her brother as well and the community as a whole. In that way these children would not be falling pregnant if she did her duty well.

                         ESKOM ENERGY DEMAND

                        (Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, I rise to respond to the statement from the hon member of the IFP who raised a concern about the fact that when it gets cold people start fires and those fires become a danger to them. Talking about the availability of electricity, I would like to assure hon members that this government of the ANC is actually on track with the delivery of basic services to our people.

With regard to electricity which he spoke of, the Minister of Public Enterprises is on record. He has shared with this House all the plans that they have in place working with Eskom to ensure the security of the supply of electricity to our country. He has said that due to the very exciting economic growth in our country, there is a huge demand for energy and it is going to be tight for now. What we encourage hon members to do is to work with us to persuade and influence communities to save energy. They must heed the calls and the notices that are put up there to say: Switch off the geysers, switch off this; the national electricity level is red, orange and green.

Hon members, I think it must start with us. We must encourage and work with the government in terms of saving electricity so that we have a lot more to go all the way.

On the issue of the fires that get started and become a danger to the people, it is true that as it gets colder, poor people will start fires, and most of them in very small enclosures. I would just like to encourage our communities to form what we call fire protection associations. My department assists communities to set up these fire protection associations under our programme, Working on Fire. We take young children, particularly the youth, who get trained in fire-fighting services and who then assist communities.

Ninety percent of those that work in this programme are young people. As you can imagine, fitness and a high level of discipline are required of you to run away from, or after a fire. I would like to say that the programme that I am talking about has created a lot of jobs in the rural areas. Most of us have recently seen one of our helicopters making an emergency landing, whilst fighting a fire here in Cape Town, in one of our townships.

We would like to wish the occupants of the helicopter a speedy recovery and actually congratulate them, because of the good work they do. They are doing good work in terms of saving lives, but also saving property. This would always be poor people’s property who would find it very difficult to replace. So, we would like the hon members from this House to help us to spread the word about fire protection associations, but also energy conservation. Thank you.

  CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES AND RELATED MATTERS) AMENDMENT BILL

   (Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Justice and
                     Constitutional Development)

Ms F I CHOHAN-KHOTA: Chairperson and members, the Bill before us now was returned to Parliament in June 2006. After inviting further submissions the committee received 48 further submissions, over and above the 128 submissions received by the previous Parliament. The committee reconstituted in this parliamentary term continued with the Bill in terms of the resolution of this House from the point that it had been dealt with by the previous Parliament during 2003 and just prior to the elections in 2004. The committee finalised its deliberations and the redrafting of the legislation in November 2006. The Second Reading debate was completed with all the parties indicating their support, but the Bill was not voted on in the House. At the eleventh hour, the committee was told that the Office of the Speaker had received an objection in regard to tagging of the Bill, and it is well-known that the NGO called “Sweat” had objected earlier during the public participation process to a clause in the Bill that makes prostitution a crime for both the sex worker and the client.

Accordingly, on the eve of the passage of the Bill, “Sweat” placed the tagging of the Bill at issue, saying that it ought to have been introduced in the NCOP. Regrettably the law advisors of Parliament tended to agree and proposed that the Bill ought to have been split. Based on the sound principles established by Parliament itself over the years, the committee disagreed with this view, particularly as this new approach of the law advisors held implications beyond this Bill. It was also being suggested that the clause related to the treatment of victims of rape ought to be removed from this Bill.

The committee was asked to reply to the opinions of the parliamentary law advisors as well as senior counsel, which we did in a substantial report that was published in the ATC. The Joint Tagging Mechanism was thereafter consulted and compliance with the motion adopted by the House in November 2006.

The committee is pleased that the Joint Tagging Mechanism has now agreed that the pith and substance of the legislation is unambiguous and that the legislation does not require to be split. While this is very much a happy outcome for the committee, it is quite important, I think, that this House reflects very seriously on whether the further delay of five months was indeed necessary.

Let me finally urge those individuals and those bodies who hold specific views that have not found favour with the committee to now relent in view of the greater purpose served by this Bill. In view of the import of this legislation and the relief and protection it aims to bring to victims of rape, our children and our communities as a whole; I move the reports.

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, we move that the reports be adopted.

Motion agreed to.

Reports accordingly adopted.

  CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES AND RELATED MATTERS) AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Declarations of vote:

Mrs S M CAMERER: Chairperson, the DA supports the report and this Bill, and we are delighted that the standoff between the legal advisors of the Speaker of Parliament on one hand and the Justice department and the portfolio committee on the other has been resolved, satisfactorily, we believe.

The casualties of the six-month delay in referring the Bill to the NCOP are the victims of rape, trafficking and child molestation. We would have to wait longer for the legal instruments to assist and defend them in terms of the hugely improved and updated definition of rape, health services provided by the state to rape victims, a provision outlaw in trafficking for sexual purposes and new provisions to counter the increasing scourge of child abuse.

In fact, the courts have in the meantime stepped into the vacuum left by our failure to enact this legislation by extending the definition of rape to some degree. Nevertheless, we can be thankful that this Bill is at last on the road again and will hopefully be signed into law in not a too distant future. This is not to say that we do not have reservations about the Bill as we indicated previously, particularly the last minute inclusion of a provision criminalising the soliciting of sexual services from prostitutes.

We do understand the ANC’s reasoning and the Constitutional Court’s approach that it is unfair to prosecute the prostitute and not the client, but since the Law Reform Commission is currently reviewing the whole issue of adult prostitution, we believe it is perhaps better not do deal with this piecemeal. The inclusion of this provision should be reviewed and we suggest that this be done when the Bill goes to the NCOP. Thank you.

Ms F I CHOHAN-KHOTA: I think we mustn’t lose focus. This Bill is not about prostitution. This Bill is about trying to extend to the best of our ability protection and treatment provisions for victims of rape. I think that is the first and foremost objective of this legislation.

The Constitutional Court in the recent case of Masia versus the National Director of Public Prosecutions did indeed expand the common-law definition of rape, but it is this legislation that will fully deal with all the issues pertaining to the modernisation of the definition of rape. We do this in the legislation in a few ways. Forced penetration may now be either anal or vaginal. The object of penetration may be a genital organ or even an object such as a bottle or a gun. Forced oral sex will in future also amount to rape and a victim of rape can be either a male or a female. This is what this legislation does.

Let us not confuse the purpose and the main import of this legislation. This legislation was created not to legalise or not to legalise prostitution, which, as Mrs Camerer knows, was a decision of the Constitutional Court, which made this finding, which we’ve imported. It wasn’t something the ANC brought at the last minute and signed; this court case was dealt with a long time ago.

The Bill creates new crimes such as trafficking of persons for sexual purposes and deals with a whole gamut of preventative measures. This Bill will go a long way in clarifying and updating the law of establishing preventative mechanisms such as the register for sexual offenders which is specifically aimed at paedophiles who lure our children into the most obscene activities. Thank you. [Applause.]

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 14:55.