TUESDAY, 19 JUNE 2007 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                             NEW MEMBER

                           (Announcement)

The Deputy Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the vacation of a seat in the National Assembly by Mr T S Dodovu, had been filled by the nomination of Mr G J Selau, with effect from 1 June 2007.

                                OATH

Mr G J Selau, accompanied by Ms N C Kondlo and Mr P D N Maloyi, made and subscribed the oath, and took his seat.

                     PRESIDENT MBEKI’S BIRTHDAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House –

1) notes that yesterday, Monday, 18 June 2007, President Thabo Mbeki
   celebrated his birthday;


2) recalls that under his leadership our continent, country and people
   continue to accelerate the effort to reduce poverty, grow the
   economy, deepen the sense of a common nationhood among our people and
   work for a peaceful and prosperous Africa and a just world;


3) commends the principled and exemplary manner in which the President
   is executing his duties on behalf of our continent, country and
   people; and


4) wishes the President of the Republic a happy birthday and many happy
   returns.

Agreed to. CONGRATULATIONS TO WORLD BOATING CHAMPIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Adjunkspeaker, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Huis-

(1) kennis neem dat Suid-Afrika nog ’n wêreldkampioen opgelewer het;

(2) sy gelukwense uitspreek teenoor Stephan Lindeque wat die P750 Inflatable Boat World Championship vir 2007 in Scarborough in Engeland gewen het;

(3) sy gelukwense ook uitspreek teenoor Phil Louw van Klerksdorp wat die derde plek in dieselfde kampioenskap verower het; en

(4) kennis neem dat Suid-Afrika trots is op hierdie sportsterre van die SA Inflatable Boat Association. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House – (1) notes that South Africa has produced yet another world champion;

(2) congratulates Stephan Lindeque, who won the P750 Inflatable Boat World Championship for 2007 in Scarborough, England;

(3) further congratulates Phil Louw of Klerksdorp, who won the third place in the same championship; and

(4) notes that South Africa is proud of these sport stars of the SA Inflatable Boat Association.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you objecting?

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, we are not objecting, but again, we received no prior notice. It puts us in a bit of a difficult position, because clearly the motion is unobjectionable. No one would have an objection. We wish to reaffirm the principle: Could we please circulate such things before they are moved here.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Whips, will you please do what you always do behind the scenes.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Op ’n punt van orde, agb Adjunkspeaker: Ek het dit versprei. Dit is ook na die kantore van die verskillende Swepe gestuur. Ek het ook bevestiging dat dit wel afgelewer is deur die personeel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: On a point of order, hon Deputy Speaker: I did distribute it. It was also sent to the offices of the respective Whips. I also have confirmation that it was indeed delivered by the personnel.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ek glo die agb lid, maar ek dink daar is iewers fout. [I believe the hon member, but I think there must be a problem somewhere.]

What we are saying is, let the systems try to speak to each other. The motion itself is not objectionable, as the Acting Chief Whip has said. They did not get it. Mr Ellis?

Mr M J ELLIS: Just to support the ANC, I want to say that we did not receive it either, but we don’t have any objection to the motion.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have a situation where we can allow the motion, as it is not objectionable, and also plead with you that us try and have some controls that indicate that every party has seen the motion before it is read in the House. The text of the motion is not objected to. We then take the first motion on the Order Paper in the name of the Acting Chief Whip of the Majority Party.

Agreed to.

                  QUESTIONS NOT TO HAVE PRECEDENCE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, we move the motion printed on the Order Paper:

That, notwithstanding Rule 29(8) and Rule 113(1), Questions do not have precedence tomorrow.

Agreed to.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is quite a lot of movement in the House.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                (The late Prince Nhlahla Elijah Zulu)

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move:

That the House -

(1) notes –

    (a)      with regret and profound sadness that His Royal Highness,
         the Hon Prince Nhlahla Elijah Zulu, MP, passed away on Friday,
         15 June 2007;


    (b)      that the late Prince Zulu served on the Portfolio
         Committee on Labour and as an alternate on several others;


    (c)      that he was a true gentleman of shining integrity, kind
         and courteous to all he met, and, hailing from an illustrious
         scion of the Zulu royal family, held a deep respect for his
         nation's traditions and values which found expression in his
         public service; and


    (d)      that he will be sorely missed by his party and many
         friends; and

(2) expresses its sincere condolences to his two wives, Princess Jabulisile and Princess Eugenia, his children, his family and all those who loved him.

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a privilege to pay tribute to my dear first cousin and friend, His Royal Highness Prince Nhlahla Zulu. To me he was a constant source of encouragement and wise counsel, a fund of shrewd and honest advice. His loss will be felt by his loved ones, his party, this House and beyond. The prince possessed an easygoing charm and warmth. He was always courteous and courtly to all he met and was proof that being a gentleman was not somehow associated with being old-fashioned. He was in fact very much a man of our time who relished progress and the beauty of tradition in equal measure. The prince led an extraordinary life which spanned the best part of the last century and nearly the first decade of this one.

Our grandfather King Dinizulu had no less than 60 queens, and hence several homesteads. I must explain, Deputy Speaker, since there was a chuckle. In fact, it was not because of lust. In Zulu culture there is a “baleka” custom, and all the lawyers in the House will know that if a girl fancied you, she would pay you a betrothal visit without you even saying a word to her. This is how some of these wives were collected.

The king had several daughters and sons. His first daughter, Princess Phikisile Harriet married Dr Pixley ka Isaka Seme, the founder of the African National Congress. Doctor Seme discussed with King Dinizulu the idea of the king becoming one of the patrons of the ANC along with other African kings. He died before this proposal was finalised.

King Dinizulu had several royal homesteads. One of them was the homestead of Ezinhlendleni. One of his wives, Oka Hlokolo Ndwandwe, bore him only sons. One of his sons was Prince Nojombo. He was Prince Nhlahla’s father. My uncle Prince Nojombo died when Prince Nhlahla was very young. Prince Nhlahla’s mother, Princess Triphina Oka Manqele, struggled to give my cousin some education. After he had passed his junior certificate, he continued to study to improve himself. He qualified as a laboratory technician and went to work for the SA Paper and Pulp Industry or Sappi in Mandini in 1967.

It was during this time that I first met my cousin. It did not take me long to see that he was a patriot whose heart burned like mine concerning the sacrifices that our forebears, such as King Mpande, King Cetshwayo and King Dinizulu, suffered. He, Prince Gideon ka Mnyayiza and I soon became a trio because of our convictions. We all felt that apartheid had to be defeated by all possible means. It was not surprising then, when I visited Zambia to thank President Kenneth Kaunda for giving sanctuary to our exiles and later President Julius Nyerere, that I was inspired to found Inkatha ye Nkululeko ye Sizwe, Tokologo ya Setšhaba [the National Cultural Liberation Movement].

Bishop Alphaeus Zulu reinforced what President Kaunda said to me when I visited the United National Independence Party headquarters in Lusaka during my visit. Doctor Kaunda had impressed upon me the need to start a membership-based organisation so that in our internal resistance against grand apartheid we could present ourselves as a cohesive force. The only person who had to be consulted was the leader of the ANC in exile, Mr Oliver Tambo. After he had approved, I then formed Inkatha. Prince Nhlahla and Prince Gideon were the first in the royal house to join me in 1975.

Prince Nhlahla became a highly respected member of our Central Committee before it became the National Council, which he was a member of until his passing. He was a respected voice in the councils of my party and we had no hesitation in asking him to join those of us who came to Parliament as representatives of our party in 1994.

He was a remarkable person of great depth whose every word was spoken only after a lot of thought and with clarity. He was a man of great wisdom whose opinions we all valued in the party. He was not garrulous, yet when he expressed his opinion on any issue, all listened. He was a model of modesty. He would never flaunt his royal lineage. He was a gentleman who was loved and respected across party lines.

Yesterday, when I spoke to His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini ka Bhekuzulu, the nephew of Prince Nhlahla, he lamented the fact that the prince’s wisdom would no longer be available to him and the rest of us as a family. In the royal family, he was a rare breed. He was a humble scion of Zulu kings whose life mission was to serve his people, the Zulu nation and the people of South Africa.

We thank God for having lent us the gift of this royal prince. He believed strongly that his mission would not be accomplished as long as his people were trapped in poverty, living with high unemployment, when corruption still persisted and so many suffered from HIV and Aids in our province of KwaZulu-Natal, which has the highest prevalence rate in the country. We feel that he has made his own unique contribution and he has completed his mission in serving our people in the highest council of state, Parliament. We extend our heartfelt condolences to his beloved wives, Princess Jabulisile and Princess Eugenia, his family, the royal house, members of his party and his colleagues across all parties in Parliament.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Deputy Speaker, we, from the DA, certainly support the motion. I want to say that I had the privilege of knowing Prince Zulu for a number of years. He was, as the hon Buthelezi has pointed out, a remarkably polite and decent man. I want to use the word dignified as far as he is concerned, because I think he was really a remarkably dignified person. He was held in very high esteem by all those he came into contact with. Therefore, it was with great sadness and regret that the DA learnt that he had passed away at the age of 67, in the early hours of Friday, 15 June.

Prince Zulu has certainly been an important and respected Member of Parliament, since he joined this institution in the mid 1990s. During his time as an MP, we know that he served on a number of portfolio committees including labour, education, and home affairs. I would like the House to know that our members who served with him on those committees have acknowledged him to have been a worthy adversary, but also a good friend, an accomplished debater and a hard-working person generally. But it was the dignity with which he upheld both himself and that auspicious position as a Member of Parliament that always was particularly noteworthy about him.

Again, as we have heard from the hon Buthelezi, Prince Zulu was a long-time member of the IFP and the precursor to the IFP, the Inkatha Cultural Liberation Movement, when it was launched in 1975. He was indeed a stalwart of the struggle and of the IFP, and we offer our sincere condolences to his party.

One of the many things that was impressive about Prince Zulu was that he was someone who always strived to better himself. Throughout his long career at Sappi, and during his time here in Parliament, he continued studying and he received numerous qualifications in a wide range of subjects. And as we have heard from those who knew him, he truly believed that knowledge was power and he read anything he could get his hands on, be it newspapers, magazines, journals, articles or books. He was also a devout Christian. He was an active member of the Anglican Church.

On behalf of the DA, I would like to extend our sincere condolences to the family and friends of Prince Zulu at this time of their loss. Our thoughts are very much with you all at this difficult time. Parliament has lost an exemplary member who was a true asset to the institution. We are confident that he will be greatly missed, not only by the Members of this Parliament, but by all parliamentary staff who had the pleasure of working with him as well.

Mr H B CUPIDO: The ACDP wishes to extend our deepest heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the late Member of Parliament, Prince Zulu. The commendable 67-year-old IFP Member of Parliament passed away on the morning of 15 June 2007. Prince Zulu will be remembered by many of his colleagues, distant colleagues and friends, as a constant source of encouragement and wise counsel. We ask that our fellow colleagues bestow prayers on and give encouragement to the family of the late hon Prince Zulu in this time of their bereavement.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, namens die VF Plus wil ons graag ons innige meegevoel betuig met die familie en die vriende en die gesin van die oorledene. Dit is so dat enige sterfte traumaties is vir die familielede. Dit is ook traumaties vir die Inkatha Vryheidsparty. Tot hulle leedwese moes hulle verneem dat een van hulle partygenote te sterwe gekom het. Ons het hom leer ken as ’n persoon wat enige tyd graag sy standpunt gestel het en nie gehuiwer het om te sê waarin hy glo nie. Daar was altyd ’n goeie verhouding tussen die oorledene en die lede van die VF Plus. As Christene kan ons ook net vir hulle sê: Hulle sal hul troos net van Bo af ontvang. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the FF Plus, we would like to extend our sincere condolences to the family, friends and relatives of the deceased. Any death is traumatic for the family members concerned. This is also traumatic for the Inkatha Freedom Party. To their regret they have learnt of the passing of one of their party members. We had come to know him as a person who was keen to state his point of view at any given time and never hesitated to articulate what he believed in. There was always a good relationship between the deceased and the members of the FF Plus. As Christians, all we can tell them is that they will only find consolation from Above.]

Mr G T MADIKIZA: Madam Deputy Speaker, the UDM is saddened by the news that the hon Prince Zulu has passed away. It is always a shock to learn that one of us has suddenly been snatched away. We extend our heartfelt condolences to the family, to the friends, to the IFP and to the colleagues of His Royal Highness, Prince Nhlahla Elijah Zulu. His commitment to his party, his traditional culture and his country was there for all to see. Our thoughts and prayers are with his loved ones and we hope that they will draw consolation from the praise that has been expressed today in this House. Thank you.

Rre P H K DITSHETELO: Modulasetulo, re le UCDP re utlwile botlhoko thata ka loso la ga Prince Zulu wa IFP. Re lela le bona mme jaaka Bakeresete ra re, re itse gore ba ba swang ba swela Morena le ba ba tshelang ba tshelela Morena. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, we as the UCDP are greatly saddened by the death of Prince Zulu of the IFP. We would like to convey our condolences, but as Christians we believe that those who die do so unto to the Lord and those who live also do so unto to the Lord.]

When the Inkatha National Cultural Liberation Movement, the precursor to the IFP, was launched in 1975, the prince was an activist holding various leadership positions at a high level. He was elected to the central committee of Inkatha at the beginning of 1980, after which he became a leader of the National Council of the IFP.

He was an avid reader, truly believing that education is power; a man with a deep insight; a man who had loved soccer during his youth.

Re lela le lona. Lalang ka ntho madi a tshologa le pelo di gamuketse botlhoko di tla fola. Pinagare e lo ntseng lo e tshepile e ole. Setlhare se lo ntseng lo kwaya mo go sone, moriti wa sone o ile le o lebile.

Go swa motho go tsalwe motho. Mo tlogeleng motho wa batho a lale ka kagiso. Ga gagwe o go dirile. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[We would like to express our deepest condolences to you and we hope you can find a healing power in grieving. We acknowledge that you have lost a person who was the core of your existence.

When one person dies, another one is born. Leave him to rest in peace. He made his contribution.]

Mr R B BHOOLA: Madam Deputy Speaker, with deep sorrow and great regret, the MF expresses us deepest condolences on the loss of the late N E Zulu. There are indeed many sorrows in life and one of the greatest sorrows that no one would like to experience is that of death. We get so engrossed in living that we fail to realise that it is not forever. However, we need to realise that the lives we live have an impact on those around us, our society and our country. It is our beliefs, values and endeavours that are immortal.

Our deepest condolences are extended to the family and friends of the late Prince Zulu. May the Lord be your strength in this time of mourning, and may your pain be eased through our love and support.

We further extend this message of condolence to the IFP on the loss of your inspiring member, friend and comrade. To the late Prince Zulu, South Africa salutes you. May you find bliss in the gardens of paradise where you may comfortably watch over our mother, South Africa, blossoming into greatness. I thank you.

Mr N T GODI: Madam Deputy Speaker, it was with a sense of shock and disbelief that I received the news of the passing away of Prince Zulu in the early hours of Friday. On behalf of the PAC, we wish to convey our heartfelt condolences to the family and the IFP on the loss of such a long- standing member and leader of the party.

Indeed, like everybody else has said before me, Prince Zulu was a true gentleman, a man of integrity and a very courteous person. He will most definitely be missed. I was fortunate to have served with the late Prince Zulu in the Portfolio Committee on Labour, and he indeed struck one as a true gentleman who was very diligent in his work, who was open-minded, and who had a progressive outlook on issues that we were debating. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.

Mnu D M GUMEDE: Phini likaSomlomo, thina kuKhongolose sidabuke kakhulu ngokuzwa ngokukhothama kukaMntwana uNhlahla ozalwa uMntwana uNojombo kaDinizulu kaCetshwayo kaMpande kaNdaba.

Umntwana uNhlahla ubenokuzithoba, ejulile ngolwazi. Ubeneqiniso, engumuntu wabantu. Akwenzayo ubekwenzisisa. Izinkulumo zakhe bezakha, zikhombisa ukuthi ubeyilalela yonke imibono ngaphambi kokuba aphimise ngakushoyo. Ngithi kumakhosikazi akhe, omunye udadewethu, umtakaKhondlo kanye nokaMajozi, silahlekelwe sonke; izinyembezi zenu, ziyizinyembezi zesizwe sonke.

Eqenjini lakhe, i-IFP, nakuMntwana waKwaPhindangene esimhloniphayo sithi: Lalani ngenxeba. Kubuhlungu kodwa umdali izinhlelo zakhe uyazazi. Endlunkulu nakubaNtwana bonke sithi: nina bakaMalandela, nina bakaJama, nina bakaMjokwane kaNdaba, uMntwana uyibekile induku ebandla. Izwe liyaziqhenya ngani.

UKhongolose nesizwe sonke silahlekelwe kakhulu. Yebo, ziyohamba izinsizwa zisale izibongo. Usikhonzele kobabamkhulu. Ndlelanhle, siyohlala sikukhumbula! Akwehlanga lungehliyo. Siyasemukela lesi siphakamiso sikababa uVan der Merwe. Ngiyabonga (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D M GUMEDE: Deputy Speaker, we in the African National Congress are sad to learn of the passing away of Prince Nhlahla, the son of Prince Nojombo, begotten by Dinizulu, begotten by Cetshwayo, the son of Mpande, who was begotten by Ndaba.

Prince Zulu was very humble yet knowledgeable. He was truthful and he was loved by people. He was very meticulous with almost everything. His speeches were constructive, and they showed that he would listen to all opinions first before he made a pronouncement. To his wives – the other one is my cousin - the daughter of Khondlo and the daughter of Majozi, I say your loss is our loss; you are not alone, the whole nation is weeping.

To his political party, the IFP, and to the Prince of KwaPhindangene, whom we respect, we say may he find comfort to accept this. It is painful but God knows his plans. To the royal family we say, you, the generation of Malandela, begotten by Jama, who was begotten by Mjokwane, the son of Ndaba, the Prince made his mark. We are proud of you.

The African National Congress and the whole nation has suffered a loss. It is indeed true that people die but their good work lives on. To the late Prince we say, convey our greetings to our forefathers. Go well, we will always remember you! What has happened is fate. We agree to this motion of the hon Van der Merwe. Thank you.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I take it that there are no objections to the adoption of the motion by the House. I am going to ask the service officers to just suspend their movements in the House as I will ask all the members to rise to observe a moment of silence in memory of the late hon Prince Zulu.

Motion agreed to, members standing. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please be seated. The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the family of Prince Zulu.

                      DIAMOND EXPORT LEVY BILL

                           (Introduction)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The Diamond Export Levy Bills – and there are two of them – provide for a levy on the export of rough diamonds from South Africa. It should be noted that the imposition of an export tax is already contained in the Diamonds Act of 1986.

One of the many positive aspects of our Constitution is the requirement that all taxes must be imposed by way of a Money Bill, thereby providing for greater transparency and oversight. Amendments made to the Diamonds Act during 2005 have resulted in the need for amendments relating to the export levy on rough diamonds, thereby requiring a separate Money Bill. Both sets of changes represent an interdepartmental effort with the Department of Minerals and Energy working towards regulatory reform, while the National Treasury assists with supporting fiscal measures.

The original intent of the export levy on rough diamonds was to facilitate adequate and regular supplies of rough diamonds to local cutters and polishers. The Diamonds Act of 1986 was only partially successful in this regard. The Department of Minerals and Energy accordingly amended the Diamonds Act in 2005 to improve regulatory oversight. The revised export levy on rough diamonds is intended to complement these regulatory provisions.

The export levy on rough diamonds in the Diamonds Act of 1986 is currently set at 15%. However, this Act provided for relatively generous exemptions. The proposed Diamond Export Levy Bills of this year reduce the export levy on rough diamonds to 5%, but tighten the relief provisions, thereby laying a foundation for increased effectiveness.

It should also be noted that the reduced 5% rate was not intended to undermine the power of the levy as a deterrent. According to informal police estimates, diamond smuggling costs are between 2,5% and 5% of gross diamond values. Therefore the current 15% rate merely enhances smuggling; whereas the proposed 5% rate is high enough to deter unpolished exports without hidden benefits for smuggling.

The proposed relief measures ensure that the local supply of rough diamonds is commensurate with local demand. No reason exists to force diamonds onto the local market beyond local capacity. The core element of these incentives is to encourage producers to supply the local market with rough diamonds so that they can export the remainder free from the levy. As a general rule, the Diamonds Act, as amended in 2005, requires that all rough diamonds intended for export must be offered for sale via a tender process at a Diamond Export and Exchange Centre. However, in the case of large producers, the Minister of Minerals and Energy may waive the requirement to offer all rough diamonds on the DEEC. This waiver is, for practical reasons, to ensure that the tendering process at the centre is not overwhelmed by large volumes of very small rough diamonds.

The Minister of Minerals and Energy may exempt a large producer from the tendering process if he believes that 40% of that producer’s gross sales over the course of a year will comprise of sales to local diamond beneficiators and if the producer’s total gross sales in the same period will exceed R3 billion. The Diamond Export Levy Bill provides a large producer with a levy exemption for an assessment period under similar conditions. Relief for medium producers and exemption for small producers is also built into the legislation.

In respect of beneficiators, it is not always possible for a diamond beneficiator to cut and polish 100% of the diamonds purchased. The Regulator may accordingly grant a beneficiator permission to export rough diamonds if the local beneficiator will cut 80% of the diamonds purchased. Once this permit is issued, the diamond beneficiator is exempt from the levy in respect of the 20% remainder for export, provided that the diamonds are first subject to the tendering process of the DEEC.

While the levy is regulatory in nature, the import credit and the exemptions may be limited in order to raise revenue if deemed necessary. At this time we see no need for this limitation, because all related administration is being fully funded in the budget.

Chairperson, let me just share with members of this House that two morning newspapers carried erroneous stories on this matter on what happened when it was dealt with in the committee. The full text of this speech sets the record straight. Neither newspaper was willing to publish a correction, but their reports were terribly erroneous.

In closing, I would like to thank the chairs of the portfolio committees on Finance and on Minerals and Energy, namely Mr Nhlanlha Nene and Mr Nathi Mthethwa, for their leadership, and the members of these portfolio committees for their constructive role in the process. Chairperson …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): The two Bills.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: … I hereby table the Diamond Export Levy Bill, 2007, as well as its companion, the Diamond Export Levy Administration Bill, 2007. Thank you.

Bills referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration and report.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


            (Decision of Question on Votes and Schedule)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! I wish to thank parties for advising the Table staff on which Votes they will make declarations, on which they will record their objections and on which they intend dividing. This information will greatly assist the process this afternoon.

I will put each Vote and ask parties for Declarations of Vote as they have indicated. Members may make Declarations of Vote from the floor microphones if they so wish. After this I will put the Vote for decision.

I have been advised that by agreement declarations will be limited to two minutes each. The bells will be rung for five minutes for the Division on a Vote but for only one minute on subsequent divisions.

Vote No 1 – Presidency - put and agreed to.

Vote No 2 - Parliament – put.

Declaration of vote:

Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, we will be supporting this Vote but we would call on Madam Speaker to ensure that a number of issues are sorted out during the course of this year: That the Parliamentary Oversight Authority starts meeting on a regular basis; that we have a situation where the administration of Parliament is sorted out once and for all; that Madam Speaker herself leads the way and holds discussions with Minister Trevor Manuel with regard to members’ pensions and really gets this sorted out once and for all; and possibly to look at sorting out the issue of Mrs Mars’ laptop. I think we really and truly have to make a last plea to Madam Speaker to ensure that Mrs Mars has a replacement for her laptop within a month.

Vote agreed to.

Vote No 3 Foreign Affairs – put.

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, we indicated to the Table staff that we would not be making a declaration on this Vote.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 4 - Home Affairs – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, the Department of Home Affairs has pride of place as one of government’s most dysfunctional departments. Qualified audits and disclaimers have been the order of the day as a result of continuous poor financial management practices and recurring noncompliance with the PFMA.

The forensic audits conducted on the FPB, the GPW and the immigration process at the department are damning and the outcomes of other forensic investigations into alleged fraudulent and corrupt activities within the department are awaited. Information on the amounts owing to the GPW by other departments is not forthcoming and we suspect the reason is inaction on the part of the department with regard to recovery and that these debts have become prescribed, as is the case with airline penalties amounting to about R17 million.

The department has underspent its budget by 7,3%, had unauthorised expenditure of R15 million and irregular expenditure of R19 million. In addition, money is constantly being spent on the Hanis Project with no definitive results to date.

These are just some of the reasons why the Democratic Alliance will not support the budget of the Department of Home Affairs. Ms N C NKABINDE: Chairperson, whilst the UDM will support this Budget Vote, it is necessary to express our deep concern regarding the longstanding problems within the department.

Home Affairs has been in a downward spiral for more than a decade now. It is riddled with corruption and has become notorious for terrible service and long queues. We know that new plans have been announced and we eagerly await reports of drastic improvement. But previous promises of dramatic turnarounds have only led to disappointment.

Another matter that is of concern is the amount of taxpayers` money already spent and being spent on the Hanis Project. The dangers of such a large and sensitive project being developed within a department that has been infiltrated by organised crime cannot be overstated. It would be best to completely halt projects such as this until corruption has been eradicated.

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP has noted that notwithstanding the severe challenges facing this department, projected underspending amounts to R206 million due, inter alia, to the slow filling of vacant posts as well as delays in tendering by the Department of Public Works.

A glaring weakness in the department identified previously and confirmed by the intervention task team, was the lack of internal monitoring, particularly in the finance section of the Department of Home Affairs. The challenges, as pointed out by the audit committee, relate to late capturing of source documentation, the department of Revenue and clearance of suspense accounts.

These deficiencies resulted in a qualified Auditor General’s report with unauthorised expenditure not being condoned by National Treasury.

Other key challenges faced by the department relate to the need to find a balance between fast-tracking citizen registration and ensuring the integrity of South African citizenship. Anecdotes abound of citizens struggling for years to obtain identity documents. This indicates serious service delivery problems and results in those citizens not being able to access social services, in particular

The ACDP trusts that the turnaround strategy will succeed and we look forward to an unqualified clean bill of health from the Auditor-General in years to come.

However, in view of the serious shortcomings in the department, the ACDP will not support this Budget Vote.

Mrs M M MAUNYE: Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote No 4 because of the appointment of the DG and the skills task teams that are working hard with the Ministry to change the department and we are confident that these programmes will be successfully implemented by the task teams.

Another thing that we need to remember is that the Department of Home Affairs has been under the leadership of an ANC Minister for only three years. It is too short a time for the ANC to change the problems that are in that department. We are confident that with the appointment of all the task teams that are there, there will be change in the department and hopefully that there will be light at the end of the tunnel. [Applause.]

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, African Christian Democratic Party, Independent Democrats, Freedom Front Plus and United Party of South Africa dissenting).

Vote No 5 – Provincial and Local Government - put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, your information is not correct, sir. We will not be asking for a declaration of vote.

Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, there’s a serious outcry from all corners of our country that our people are in need of much-needed services to be delivered. This does not seem to be forthcoming. Unrest and disruption of people’s lives are the order of the day as government seems to be slow in addressing these urgent needs.

Mismanagement, corruption and the payment of performance bonuses to underperforming municipal managers are not contributing to stabilising our communities. Therefore the ACDP does not see fit to support this Vote. Thank you.

Mr G T MADIKIZA: Chair, the UDM supports the Vote, but it is imperative that we make this declaration. There are communities in Limpopo, in Port St Johns and in Lusikisiki in the Eastern Cape, who are under pressure from local governments to pay property rates and other taxes. We view this as an unjust bureaucratic action that will only place greater pressure on the tenuous household incomes of very poor people.

The application of property rate taxation in the rural areas should be put on hold until such time as the issues of title deeds and land tenure are resolved. The bitter irony regarding these communities is that they are expected to pay rates to local governments that provide them with little or no services or infrastructure. Yet in towns and cities government has subsidised and is constantly developing and/or upgrading infrastructure.

Does this imply that rural people must pay first before they get services and infrastructure, even though they’ve built their homes from their own pockets? Instead of the service delivery due to these communities, it is the other way round. I thank you.

Mr S A MSHUDULU: Chairperson, the ANC supports the budget. It is as a result of the centrality of local government and because of its capacity that South Africa as a country has been chosen to host the 2010 Fifa World Cup.

Baye bathi: “Zikhonkotha ehambayo.” [Controversy dogs those who have achieved successes.]

There are features that demonstrate the statement. One is that local government has put a programme in place that mainstreams hands-on support, as was demonstrated by Project Consolidate.

Furthermore, we are aware in this country that in the past there was no municipal governance until such time as the ANC-led government put in place a municipal system that inculcated a culture of performance management.

Through the Municipal Finance Management Act, today even the opposition can talk about transparency in terms of the ills within the system. Local government has refined and strengthened policies, as well as the regulatory regime, as demonstrated within the fiscal environment through the FFC’s recommendations that are responded to, and more so in terms of the expansionary budget that was announced by the President, which is directed, in line with the RDP, towards the needy. I thank you.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, op ’n punt van orde: Ek wil net van u verneem of daar vandag een of ander administratiewe fout is. Die VF Plus het ook sy lyste ingedien. Ek verneem net graag van u die ordereëling: Gaan u vir ander partye ook ’n geleentheid gee of gaan u streng volgens die lyste wat ingedien is? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I just want to know from you whether there is some or other administrative error today. The FF Plus has also submitted its lists. I would like you to clarify the ruling. Will you allow other parties an opportunity as well, or will you be guided strictly by the lists that have been submitted?]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): You can put up your hand or indicate on the screen; we will accommodate you.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Dankie, Voorsitter. Dan vra ek vir ’n geleentheid om oor hierdie begrotingspos te praat.

Die VF Plus sal nie hierdie begrotingspos ondersteun nie. Ek het in verskeie debatte wat gevoer is in hierdie Parlement spesifiek verwys na die nuwe eiendomsbelastingwet. Daar is verskeie plekke in die land waar stadsrade nou misbruik maak van die nuwe eiendomsbelastingwet en dit as ’n geldmaakinstrument gebruik. Belasting op eiendomme styg geweldig. Daar is byvoorbeeld die geval van Belfast waar dit met ’n enorme 800% gestyg het.

Ek het vir die agb Minister daarop gewys dat die nasionale wetgewing hom die bevoegdheid gee om ’n maksimum koers te bepaal. Hy doen dit egter nie. Dit lyk dan daardeur of die agb Minister dit ondersteun dat stadsrade buitengewoon hoë belasting begin hef op eiendom. Dit is nie vir die VF Plus aanvaarbaar nie. Inteendeel, dit gaan beslis die ekonomie op die lange duur skaad, as ons buitengewone belasting op ons eiendom moet betaal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Thank you, Chairperson. In that case I request an opportunity to respond to this Vote.

The FF Plus will not support this Vote. I have, in several debates engaged in by this Parliament, specifically referred to the new Municipal Property Tax Act. There are several areas in the country where city councils are now abusing the new Municipal Property Tax Act by using it as a money-making mechanism. Taxes on property are increasing at a tremendous rate. For example, there is the case of Belfast, where property taxes have increased by an enormous 800%.

I have pointed out to the hon Minister that national legislation gives him the power to determine a maximum rate. He is not doing that, however. This creates the impression that the hon Minister supports the practice of city councils levying exceptionally high taxes on properties. That is not acceptable to the FF Plus. On the contrary, it will definitely cause damage to the economy in the long term if we have to pay exceptionally high taxes on our property.]

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting)

Vote No 6 – Public Works – put.

Declarations of vote: Mr V C GORE: Chairperson, the ID supports this Budget Vote. However, we must declare our concern over the lack of progress in making public buildings accessible for people with disabilities. Our courts, hospitals and schools remain, in the vast majority of cases, inaccessible, particularly for people with mobility impairments, as well as those with sensory impediments.

In a recent court judgement handed down in the Equality Court in Port Elizabeth against the Minister for Public Works and the Minister of Safety and Security, it was found that the respondents infringed on numerous constitutional rights such as equality and dignity. We call on the Minister for Public Works to address these very serious concerns and be proactive rather than reactive to the needs of people with disabilities. I thank you.

Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, the ACDP supports this Budget Vote and welcomes the plans it intends to put in place, as well as the increases in the maintenance budget. The condition of buildings and the maintenance plans must be used as a means to create long-term job opportunities for the unemployed and the unskilled.

In conjunction with Asgisa, which does place maintenance very high on the development agenda and on the department’s strategy and national infrastructure maintenance plan, the South African economy should get a well-deserved boost, especially in the second economy where it is needed most. Opportunities to develop skills among the unskilled citizens will definitely benefit the economy of our country in the long term. Thank you.

Mr L D MADUMA: Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budget Vote. We, however, would like to raise areas of concern around the assets and asset management of the department, as well as the leases. We think that much needs to be done around this process and we hope that the Minister, as she promised, is going to live up to this challenge.

Also, on the challenge around the EPWP, as the portfolio committee we commend the strides that have been taken by the Deputy President and the Minister in terms of engaging the National Youth Services. I think this is also going to address the challenge of the unemployed youth.

There is also a challenge around the strengthening and monitoring of intergovernmental and interdepartmental relations. I think these also need to be strengthened around infrastructural service delivery.

I think there is also a challenge around the Construction Seta. We hope that the Minister, most probably in collaboration with the Minister of Labour, is going to address the challenge around this Seta.

We are also proud to say that at least with the leadership of the current Minister, this department is moving and she has shown us that she is so courageous and she has a vision. I thank you.

Vote agreed to.

Vote No 7 – Government Communications and Information System – put. (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote agreed to.

Vote No 8 – National Treasury – put and agreed to.

Vote No 9 – Public Service and Administration – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr G T MADIKIZA: Chairperson, we will support the Budget Vote but it would be remiss of us if we failed to point out that the current round of salary negotiations for the Public Service was poorly managed by the government. It must have been patently clear from the outset that the original offer was insufficient and downright miserly and that consequently it would be rejected outright by the representatives of the employees. Government should have made a better offer from the outset. Instead, we have seen the country being plunged into an unnecessary and costly strike action that could have been avoided.

It is worth remembering that every reasonable taxpayer agrees that our teachers and nurses are receiving pittances and would happily endorse paying them better. I thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, while we should be talking of accelerated service delivery, existing services are grinding to a halt. The ACDP is concerned that the department that serves as one of the country’s main arteries is itself largely responsible for the present national disruptions. Service delivery is dependent on a well-trained and competent public service, but regrettably a skills deficit has been in the making for some time now. While government has experimented with questionable policies in the name of accelerated transformation, they have also ignored the reality that market- related salaries are imperative in order to retain and attract the necessary skills. The delays have taken their toll.

In addition, government has created a monster, as inflexible labour laws encourage and protect those who abuse their employed status, but this cannot be used as an excuse to penalise those who are dedicated and committed to delivering excellence. We must deal with the problem and not the symptom.

Whilst the ACDP calls on educators and those providing essential and emergency services, who have the sympathy of the vast majority of South Africans, to act responsibly and not make the public and their children pay for government’s short-sightedness, it also expects the hon Minister to make urgent and adequate interventions to address the widespread dissatisfaction in the Public Service.

Government’s handling of this situation is in serious question. The ACDP will not support this Budget Vote. Thank you.

Mnr W D SPIES: Voorsitter, hoewel die VF Plus hierdie begrotingspos ondersteun, wil ons graag in dié stadium die Huis meedeel dat ons met ernstige kommer kennis geneem het van die feit dat verskeie staatsamptenare wat nie aan die afgelope staking deelgeneem het nie, nog nie hul salarisse ontvang het nie.

Ons het minstens drie voorbeelde van onderwysers in Pretoria wat dit aan hul eie sak gevoel het toe hulle ‘n salaris van slegs R180,00 ontvang het, terwyl hulle net op die eerste dag van die skool weggebly het. Hoewel ons die begrotingspos steun, sal ons baie graag wil sien dat die regering sy stelsels in orde kry en dat hierdie saak so gou as moontlik uitgesorteer word. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Chairperson, although the FF Plus supports this Vote, we would, at this stage, like to inform the House that we have noted, with serious concern, the fact that several public servants who did not participate in the recent strike, have still not received their salaries.

We have at least three examples of teachers in Pretoria who felt the pinch when they received salaries of only R180,00, while they only stayed away on the first day of school. Though we support the Vote, we would very much like to see government getting its systems in order and for this matter to be resolved as soon as possible. I thank you.]

Vote agreed to (African Christian Democratic Party and Independent Democrats dissenting). Vote No 10 – Public Service Commission – put and agreed to.

Vote No 11 – South African Management Development Institute – put and agreed to.

Vote No 12 – Statistics South Africa – put and agreed to.

Vote No 13 – Arts and Culture – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mrs D VAN DER WALT: Chairperson, serious weaknesses exist in the department regarding asset control and supply chain management.

Die hoë getal vakante poste wat daar tans is, bemoeilik die implementering van die begroting op die Tafel. Slegs vyf van die 25 entiteite wat tans aan die departement verslag doen, het skoon ouditverslae van die OG ontvang. Ons glo aan die behoorlike monitering van dié entiteite om te verseker dat hulle doeltreffend en kostedoeltreffend bestuur word.

Minister, ons wil almal deel wees van ‘n wenspan. Ek het verlede jaar hier gestaan en gesê dat ek hoop ons gaan vanjaar die begrotingspos steun. Maar dit is baie moeilik om die begrotingspos te steun as die departement eers ná die begrotingsdebat kom en dan al die antwoorde op die tafel plaas. In die omstandighede kan ons dus nie vanjaar die begrotingspos steun nie, en ons daag die departement, tesame met die Minister, uit om dit volgende jaar behoorlik te doen sodat ons kan saamstem. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The current high number of vacant posts is impeding the implementation of the budget on the Table. Only five of the 25 entities that are reporting to the department at present have received unqualified audit reports from the Auditor General. We believe that these entities should be monitored properly so as to ensure that they are managed in an efficient and cost- effective manner.

Minister, we all want to be part of a winning team. Last year, I stood here and said that I hoped that we would be supporting the Vote this year. But it is very difficult to support the Vote when the department only tables all the answers after the budget has been debated.

Under the circumstances, we therefore cannot support the Vote this year and we challenge the department, together with the Minister, to do better next year so that we can agree. Thank you.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Agb Voorsitter, die hele kwessie van naamsveranderings val onder hierdie departement. In dié stadium is daar heelwat verwarring in die land oor presies hoe dit gehanteer word.

Die Potchefstroomse munisipaliteit het aangekondig dat hy môreoggend ‘n groot vergadering gaan reël om ‘n belangrike aankondiging te maak oor naamsverandering. Wat dit behels, weet ons nie, en dit raak die departement nie direk nie, want dit val nie direk daaronder nie. Myns insiens is die departement wel oorkoepelend daar om te sorg dat dit ordelik geskied.

Die VF Plus is bekommerd daaroor dat dit tot op hierdie stadium op ‘n ad hoc-basis van punt tot punt geskied sonder dat die nodige oorlegpleging gedoen word. As daar môre ‘n aankondiging van die stadsraad kom, is dit weer eens waarskynlik verkeerd omdat die korrekte prosesse nie gevolg is nie.

Omdat die departement nog nie finale besluite geneem het nie, gaan die VF Plus nie teen die begroting stem nie, maar ons wil wel hierdie saak onder u aandag bring, want ons glo dit het die potensiaal om in die toekoms groot probleme te veroorsaak. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

Dr P W A MULDER: Hon chairperson, the entire issue of name changes falls under this department. At this stage, there is quite a lot of confusion in the country over precisely how this should be dealt with. The Municipality of Potchefstroom has announced that it is going to arrange a huge meeting tomorrow morning in order to make an important announcement about name changes. We do not know what this is all about, and it does not affect the department directly, as it does not fall directly under the department. In my opinion, the department in fact has an overarching role to play in ensuring that this takes place in an orderly manner.

The FF Plus is concerned that, to date, this has taken place on an ad hoc basis from point to point without the necessary consultation having taken place. If the city council makes an announcement tomorrow, it will once again probably be wrong because the correct procedures were not followed.

As the department has not yet made any final decisions, the FF Plus will not vote against the budget, but we do want to draw your attention to this matter, because we believe it has the potential to cause big problems in the future.]

Ms P TSHWETE: Chair, it is a pity that we are dealing with people that are bitter, and when you are bitter you plug your ears and sometimes close your eyes. The DA has deliberately plugged its ears and closed its eyes. You know that the department came to the portfolio committee, and I’m not going to respond to people who are not part of the portfolio committee, because they are just howling. The department did not say that they do not have challenges; they are addressing the challenges.

The issue that you are talking about, hon Van der Walt, of the department presenting today, you knew about long ago. We were holding public hearings before the Budget Votes. So, I’m not going to answer all the questions …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon member, your two minutes have expired.

Ms P TSHWETE: The ANC supports Budget Vote No 13.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and United Party of South Africa dissenting).

Vote No 14 – Education – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the ACDP believes that the future of our country is dependent, to a large degree, on the skills of our people and the strength of our education system. Therefore, we will support this Vote.

The ACDP places on record that we do not support extended teacher and learner boycotts, which effectively hold the education and future of learners to ransom. At the same time we do expect government to play its role in ensuring that educators are adequately remunerated.

We recognise that a vibrant higher education sector is crucial to economic development. We support the significant subsidisation of higher education institutions and an increase in the Student Financial Aid Scheme.

We acknowledge, however, that there are still too many children being disadvantaged because of failing or underachieving schools. We, in the ACDP, are of the opinion that if we want to see these results change, we need a more intense focus on literacy and numeracy lessons, improved teacher-pupil ratios and increased training and pay for teachers.

The ACDP would like to see a greater move towards investing in intra and extramural activities such as dance, drama, music, sport, languages, etc, through the development of extended schools. Communities can provide a range of family and learning services.

Adult education could benefit from these hubs of family learning too, especially if programmes offered have greater relevance. Abet appears to have pretty much failed to date, and a much-needed review, with a view to improving access, retention and throughput rates, is overdue. The need to raise levels of adult literacy and numeracy is critical, but a more creative approach is necessary.

Special education needs are still not being adequately provided for and the ACDP adds its voice to calls for government to ensure that every child has the opportunity to fulfil his or her potential. The need for both special schools and mainstream schools to be made available and to be suitably resourced is urgent. Yet the budget does not appear to address this adequately. I thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson, whilst the IFP will support Vote No 14 – Education, we remain deeply concerned about the ever-widening gap between the policy and its implementation. In this instance we would appeal to the department to strengthen its monitoring mechanisms and not to rely on the provincial monthly reports only, which, most of the time, contain figures that are not credible at all.

For instance, it is not credible, as is indicated in the report, that Limpopo province only has about nine schools without toilets. It is certainly not credible to read in the report that KwaZulu-Natal only has six schools without toilets. It is for these reasons that we appeal to the department to pay more attention to the monitoring mechanisms and not to rely on these reports. I thank you. Mnr W D SPIES: Agb Voorsitter, ek het gister met ‘n vooraanstaande ekonoom gesels wat vir my gesê het dat Suid-Afrika dié land in die wêreld is wat die meeste op onderwys spandeer, maar ook dié land is met die swakste gepaardgaande resultate. Dié syfers dui vir my op ‘n fundamentele probleem in die onderwys en ek dink nie ons het dié probleem al aangepak nie.

Die Vryheidsfront Plus se standpunt is eenvoudig dat solank ons nie ‘n punt bereik waar ouers en onderwysers en ouergemeenskappe weer in beheer van onderwys geplaas word nie, ons nie die begroting sal kan steun nie. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Hon Chairperson, I spoke to a leading economist yesterday who told me that South Africa is the country in the world with the highest expenditure on education, but also the country with the worst accompanying results. These figures point to a fundamental problem in education and I do not think that we have addressed this problem yet.

The FF Plus’s view is simply that until we have reached a point where parents, teachers and communities are placed in charge of education once again, we will not be able to support the budget. Thank you very much.]

Prof S M MAYATULA: Chairperson, the ANC not only supports but is also very excited about this budget, because it addresses the very issues that members of the opposition are referring to.

An amount of R2 billion has been set aside to address illiteracy. There is a needs project relating to monitoring. As much as 40% has been set aside for Early Childhood Development, ECD; R850 million has been set aside for Abet over the MTEF period; R700 million has been set aside for our teachers for the next three years; R600 million has been set aside for FET colleges; R2 billion has been set aside for infrastructure in higher education institutions.

The budget has increased by 11% for the provinces and by 12% for higher education, which is meant to address all these issues that are being tabled today. Thank you, sir.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 256: Abram, S; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Batyi, F; Bekker, H J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cupido, H B ; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Du Toit, D C ; Dudley, C; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Greyling, L W; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lekota, M G P; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madlala-Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa- Nqakula, N N; Mars, I; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mdladlose, M M; Mentor, M P; Meshoe, K R J; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt- Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, G J; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson-Jacobs, J; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Turok, B; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S; Wang, Y; Woods, G G; Xolo, E T; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 40: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Botha, C-S; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M; Yengeni, L E.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 15 – Health – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr G R MORGAN: Chairperson, while there have been a few triumphs in the past year, most notably the new strategic plan on HIV and Aids, which was a triumph for stakeholder consultation, our healthcare system does not meet the standards that our citizens deserve. At the very heart of the problem in the public sector is the human resource crisis. The public sector is short of close to 40 000 nurses and there is a vacancy rate of 30% in the national department, so the skills crunch cannot be underestimated.

Notwithstanding the presentation this morning to the Health committee on the department’s human resource plan - a plan which is far from being fully implemented – there is no sense of urgency on this matter. No norms and standards, let alone a complete audit of required skills, have been completed. Many health indicators remain poor or are worsening. The TB cure rate is currently 56%, which is below the national department’s own target of 65% and far below the World Health Organisation’s target of 85%. Linked to this poor rate are the growing incidents of XDR-TB.

The department continues to have a qualified audit report and must do more to bring provincial departments in line with regard to business plans associated with conditional grants.

With regard to the private sector, the department insists on overly regulating it and frustrating its ability to flourish - this, despite the government not being able to run a quality public healthcare sector itself. The Department of Health, both as a regulator and a service provider, has a long way to go before it realises its vision of creating an accessible and caring healthcare system. I thank you.

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Chairperson, in order that the money allocated to health and its various programmes corrects the many failings in the public health services, the IFP recommends fundamental changes in policy. We have and continue to propose, firstly, improved accountability achieved through decentralisation. This must be accompanied by clarity on who has authority to do what and who holds the purse strings. Health governance should be from the bottom up within frameworks to ensure accountability.

Secondly, raise the level of service in the public sector by putting the private sector to work for the public through public-private partnerships that go to the best bidders and not to the best buddies.

Thirdly, administrators in health should not be concerned with bureaucratic over-regulation concerning certification needs, price fixing, foreign doctors and medical schemes. They should rather be concerned with upholding standards, preventing corruption and attracting nurses and doctors through offering appropriate incentives.

Fourthly, the department should act to regulate - for the sake of safety and transparency - medical devices, food labels, complementary medicines and traditional healers.

Finally, there should be independent health ombudspersons and a statutory council should be democratically elected and vigorously independent for the sake of transparency and accountability to the public and not to the Ministry of Health.

The management of TB leaves a lot to be desired, but largely because of the government’s changing will towards the management of HIV and Aids. The IFP will support the budget. Thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, South Africa’s skills crisis is arguably at its most serious in the public healthcare sector, where skilled personnel literally could mean the difference between life and death. Expanding the training of nurses, increasing the number of training institutions, improving the quality of training and introducing a bursary system are critical but shockingly delayed interventions. Extensive budgets need to be set aside to attract and retain skilled healthcare personnel. Other obstacles to entry into the profession for those within the country and outside must also be addressed.

While the reasons for not poaching health professionals from Sadec countries and the expected consequences are understood, it seems a great shame that we refuse to comply these healthcare professionals who then take up posts outside the Sadec region altogether. Surely, limited contracts or other reasonable solutions can be found instead of a blanket ban on them.

Our public healthcare system is burdened with innumerable problems, ranging from a deteriorating infrastructure to the HIV/Aids pandemic and the increasing dilemma of XDR-TB, and we cannot hope to recover without adequate numbers of dedicated healthcare professionals. At the same time the urgent prioritisation of funds for hospital revitalisation is necessary to accelerate progress.

It is estimated that for every person receiving ARV treatment, five more are infected with HIV/Aids. Government’s stubborn refusal to consider the ACDP’s calls for mandatory or routine testing has undermined prevention strategies, which have been weak and plagued with inconsistencies.

Specialists say that HIV/Aids is now the number one cause of child mortality in South Africa and only 30% of pregnant women have access to prevention of mother-to-child transmission of HIV. This is tragic.

South Africa has one of the highest TB infection rates in the world, with almost 250 000 new TB cases being diagnosed every year and, of course, only 53% of these being cured, and almost as many being reinfected.

One of the greatest tragedies and inconsistencies is the health budget’s role in legal abortion under the guise of eliminating backstreet abortions. [Time expired.]

Mr L V J NGCULU: Chairperson, as the ANC we would like to once again stand up in strong support of the budget. Equally, we would like to indicate that there should come a time, in particular from within the ranks of the DA, that all would appreciate movement and progress. Similarly, it is interesting to see the hon Ruth Rabinowitz, after an awol of over three or four months, standing up on this podium to oppose this budget.

One of the things we should avoid perhaps, especially the parties from the opposition, is to be predictable in what we are going to say, especially when it comes to the budget of Health. For instance, today as a portfolio committee we received a briefing from the Department of Health on the human resource and nursing strategy. All of us, including the IFP and the DA, supported the presentation of the department and praised and commended the department. Yet, we have the temerity today to stand here and oppose this particular budget. We all know the challenges facing the Department of Health.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, there is a point of order.

Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, the hon Dr Rabinowitz did not oppose, but indicated that we would support the budget.

Mr L V J NGCULU: Today we talk of a human resource plan having been developed … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order, hon member! A correction has been made to your statement to the effect that the hon Rabinowitz in fact said that the IFP supports the Budget Vote.

Mr L V J NGCULU: I have listened to that, but I listened to the content and not the form of what she was saying.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Thank you.

Mr L V J NGCULU: Today we talk of a human resource plan having been developed. Today we talk of the increases in the intake of nursing students in colleges. Today we talk of mid-level workers being implemented. We talk of country-to-country agreements being implemented to assist with immediate shortages – countries like Cuba, Tunisia and Iran have actually come to our assistance.

Why then should anyone stand up and oppose this budget? Why should anyone stand up and talk about some of the problems? [Time expired.] The ANC supports this budget. [Applause.]

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 256: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bekker, H J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan- Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, Dithebe, SL; I W; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Du Toit, D C ; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Greyling, L W; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madikiza, G T; Madlala- Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mars, I; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbombo, N D; Mentor, M P; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa- Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Ramphele, T D H; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, G J; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson-Jacobs, J; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S; Wang, Y; Woods, G G; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 43: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Botha, C-S; Cupido, H B ; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Meshoe, K R J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 16 - Labour – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr C M LOWE: Chairperson, South Africa continues to face unemployment of epic proportions in the skills classes. While the Department of Labour claims to focus predominantly on reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality, under the leadership of the Minister, it appears unable or unwilling to tackle this blot on our landscape. Despite some improvement in job creation figures, nearly eight million people remain jobless. As we have heard in committee hearings again this morning, many, if not most, of the Setas are crippled by fraud, mismanagement and other serious problems. The Seta situation, in particular, is a national scandal.

To turn the situation around, we need a Labour department that makes job creation its absolute number one priority, with every strategy, every goal and every objective focused on that need. Until the department accepts this and redirects its efforts from overly racially based affirmative action and empowerment policies to tackling the skills crisis, which is one of the critical constraints to economic growth and job creation, the DA will vote against the Labour Budget Vote. South Africa deserves better. [Applause.]

Mnr W D SPIES: Agb Voorsitter, die afgelope jaar is waarskynlik die jaar wat die Minister van Arbeid baie gou sal wil vergeet. Die afgelope jaar was die jaar waarin die Nelspruitse kantoor van die Departement van Arbeid gesluit is weens gesondheidsredes. Dit was ook die jaar waartydens die Minister ‘n swartlys gepubliseer het van maatskappye wat nie voldoen aan die vereistes van regstellende aksie nie en waaruit dit toe geblyk het dat die meeste staatsdepartemente self nalaat om te voldoen aan die vereistes van die wet. Dit is ook die jaar wat geteister is deur totale chaos in die Seta’s, die wanaanwending van fondse en grootskaalse korrupsie.

Om dit alles te kroon, glo ons dat die Departement van Arbeid ‘n beleid volg wat die verkeerde medisyne vir die problem van werkloosheid is. Ons glo dat die koek groter gemaak moet word, dat die ekonomie moet groei en dat meer mense ‘n geleentheid moet kry, en die Departement van Arbeid doen in dié stadium niks meer nie as om bloot die koek te herverdeel, om witmense, sogenaamde nie-aangewese mense, uit die arbeidsmark te druk en te vervang met mense wat aan die vereistes voldoen.

Wat ons betref, is dit nie die volhoubare pad nie, die VF Plus kan nie die beleidsrigting steun nie, en gegewe dié feite, kan ons ook nie die begroting steun nie. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Hon Chairperson, the past year is probably one which the Minister of Labour would want to forget very quickly. The past year was the year in which the Department of Labour’s offices in Nelspruit were closed for health reasons. It was also the year during which the Minister published a black list of companies that are not complying with the requirements of affirmative action, and from the list it then became apparent that most state departments are also failing to comply with the law. It was also the year that was marked by total chaos in the Setas, the misappropriation of funds and large-scale corruption.

To crown it all, we believe that the Department of Labour is following a policy that does not offer a solution to the unemployment problem. We believe that the cake must be made larger, that the economy has to grow and that more people should be given a chance whereas, at this stage the Department of Labour is, doing nothing more than merely redividing the cake in order to force white people – so-called nondesignated people – out of the labour market and replace them with people who meet the requirements.

As far as we are concerned, this is not a sustainable route. The FF Plus cannot support this policy and, in light of the facts, we cannot support the Budget either. Thank you.]

Ms O R KASIENYANE: Chairperson, in supporting Budget Vote No 16, I think it is imperative to highlight some of the issues, especially after the hon Lowe has mentioned the question of skills development.

This Budget Vote is aimed at the challenges faced by the economy as far as issues such as skills development and unemployment are concerned. Our policies and legislation already address these challenges, hence the need to strengthen already existing institutions that deliver according to the mandate. There are some that are still experiencing difficulties.

Setas have shown improvement since their restructuring process in 2005. The labour policies are sound and their results are clear, through improvement, investment and gradual absorption of unemployment. Still on Setas, I think the hon Lowe knows very well that we are hands on. We are dealing with Setas for the whole of this week. They are starting to move and we need to look at what is best for the future of these Setas.

Looking at the National Industrial Policy Framework, this is the basis for the new Seta landscape. We agree that the Setas should be restructured, because we feel that the fewer Setas we have, the better. We are on course. We must make it very clear that a decision has been made to review the Setas. Thank you. [Applause.]

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 253: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bekker, H J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Du Toit, D C ; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Greyling, L W; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madikiza, G T; Madlala-Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbombo, N D; Mentor, M P; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa- Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, G J; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson- Jacobs, J; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S; Wang, Y; Woods, G G; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 43: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Botha, C-S; Cupido, H B ; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Meshoe, K R J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 17 – Social Development – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, the chronic underfunding of welfare services, particularly to children, can no longer be tolerated. The government states that children are at the top of its agenda, yet they choose to underfund the Child Care Act by a staggering R3,1 billion, or 65%. This results in hundreds of thousands of vulnerable children simply not receiving precious services.

Another factor compounding the situation is the severe lack of social workers in the public sector, which can be attributed to the perpetual underfunding. There are currently about 5 063 social workers in the public sector and in two and a half years’ time we will need 66 329. This figure is stated in government’s own costing report on the Children’s Act. At the current rate of 1 066 new students each year, and assuming that all of them graduate and no social workers retire or resign in the meantime, it will take another 58 years before we reach the 2010 target.

Clearly government has been found wanting and the DA cannot support this budget.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, despite the enormous challenges the ACDP will, once again, support this budget. However, dedicated focus on human capital development is long overdue and much damage has been done. Funds to train new social workers and develop the capacity and skills of existing social workers are critical.

We will need to employ an estimated 3 000 social workers a year if we are to make any difference at all. With this in mind, the 190 scholarships to social work students in 2006-07 are frighteningly insufficient, and much more must be done.

Unless adequate funding is utilised for building the capacity of service providers, our severely under-resourced child protection system will continue to be totally inadequate and chaotic.

The present lack of funding for the recovery process for abused and traumatised children leaves these children vulnerable and at risk of becoming perpetrators themselves. Children are often targeted simply because they are the easiest targets, and South African society is becoming more and more violent towards children as we experience greater degrees of moral breakdown.

Without intervention an increasingly negative impact on multiple budgets, including health, safety and security and justice, is inevitable.

The ACDP is also still extremely concerned that street children continue to fall through the cracks, and the fact that there is no orphan database is very perturbing. Dedicated funds must be made available for provincial and local spheres to provide adequately for these children in need of care.

Lastly, government’s failure to extend child support grants to 18-year olds has had bizarre repercussions, including, according to social workers, teen pregnancy. The ACDP will, despite the challenges, vote in favour. Thank you.

Mr J B SIBANYONI: Chairperson, the ANC-led government’s unwavering commitment to eradicating poverty, promoting social inclusion and building social cohesion is correctly located in its various strategic interventions in social welfare services, community development and comprehensive social security. We therefore welcome the increased budget allocation of 8,3% per annum.

We welcome the following initiatives by our government: The allocation of R365 million to train new social workers through the provision of scholarships and to use the additional resources to develop the capacity and skills of social workers already within the system. We call on the higher education sector to work with government to ensure that schools of social work in the country are fully operational and that more is done to ensure recruitment of social workers.

We welcome the allocation of resources to implement the Older Persons Act of 2006. Government’s expansion of access to early childhood development through increased budgetary allocations affirms its commitment to tackling child poverty through early childhood development and social grants.

Through the expansion of our social assistance safety net we witness how the lives of children, older persons, the vulnerable and the destitute are improving. Over 8 million children now have access to social assistance. This includes 7,8 million children benefiting from the Child Support Grant, nearly 400 000 benefiting from the foster grant and 95 000 benefiting from the care development dependency. More than 2,1 million elderly persons receive an old age grant and 1,4 million receive a disability grant.

We welcome the government’s initiative to put in place measures to support children over 14 years and to remove the means test for old-age pensioners. We especially welcome the paradigm shift to a comprehensive approach to poverty reduction, especially for our children, and we support the initiative to link social grants to access to basic services. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 17. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 260: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cupido, H B ; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Du Toit, D C ; Dudley, C; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Greyling, L W; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madikiza, G T; Madlala-Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbombo, N D; Mdladlose, M M; Mentor, M P; Meshoe, K R J; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, G J; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Simmons, S; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson-Jacobs, J; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S; Wang, Y; Woods, G G; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 36: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M. Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 18 – Sport and Recreation South Africa – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr T D LEE: Madam Chairperson, we will not support the Budget Vote this year for the following three reasons. [Interjections.] Firstly, last year we supported the Budget Vote because we were promised that Boxing SA’s house would be in order. However, this year Boxing SA has received another disclaimer of opinion of the Auditor-General.

Secondly, the transformation agenda continues to be racist and is pursued at the expense of the development of sport at school and at club level. Thirdly, the department continues to have an unacceptable backlog in terms of infrastructure.

The department can be likened to a rudderless ship, as a director-general has still not been appointed. We cannot understand why the previous incumbent’s contract could not be extended. He was professional, diligent and efficient. I thank you, Chairperson.

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. Is it correct for the hon member to proclaim that the policies of a department are racist? I thought that that was not something to be done and to be said in Parliament, so I would like that to be withdrawn.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Deputy Minister, you cannot say that a person is racist or a member is racist, but you can say that a party is racist and that a department is racist.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, the hon Mr De Lange has just said that the DA is racist, and then he said, “Mike is a racist”. [Interjections.] I do believe that is unparliamentary.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, are you raising a point of order or just making a comment?

Mr M J ELLIS: I beg your pardon; I am raising a point of order, yes.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Minister, it is unparliamentary to say this.

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: I did not refer to a single person in your ruling. I said, “Then they are racist.” That’s what I said. I didn’t say … If he wants to be a racist, that’s fine. But I didn’t say he was a racist. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I think, hon members, that this is an issue of semantics which can go very badly wrong. So, please, let’s try to avoid the word, even if you are now saying that it’s “they who are”. I am not ruling you out of order, but I know that it is a sensitive issue to call people racist, and therefore let’s try to avoid it. Thank you.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I rise on a further point of order. The Deputy Minister clearly indicated with his hand towards this side of the House … [Laughter.] … including all of us here, saying “They are racist”. In fact, then he means that individual Members of Parliament are racist, and he should withdraw that and apologise. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, I rise on a point of order. I do support fully what the hon Van der Merwe has said. You cannot point at a group of people and say, “They are racist,” because they think he is singling out individuals within that group. He is not saying the DA is racist. He is not referring to a political party. He is saying: “They are racist.”

Mr T M MASUTHA: I rise on a point of order, Madam Chair. You have already ruled on the matter. I do not understand why they continue to resuscitate it. Your ruling was that if the comment was not targeted at an individual member, then it was not out of order. You have already ruled on the matter. I urge you to put the matter to rest. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I must say that I find this difficult because I know the Rule and the Rule says that you can say this about a party and that you can say it about a department, but not about an individual. If it is actually stated that it was not directed at an individual, then I cannot rule it out of order. Thank you. Can we continue with declarations?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: No, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, then in terms of your ruling, I just want to say: They are idiots. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order, please! Order, please! Order, please! I am not going to take any more points of order on this particular issue. I am asking if there is a declaration of vote on Sport and Recreation SA. I have heard the DA. Are there any further declarations?

Mnr W D SPIES: Voorsitter, dit is eintlik baie jammer dat ons moet stem oor die begrotingspos vir sport en ontspanning, want ek dink almal van ons stem saam dat sport een van die potensieel verenigende faktore in hierdie land kan wees. Ons het dit al in die geskiedenis gesien. Ons het dit in 1995 gesien en in 1996 gesien, maar ongelukkig is dit anders in Suid-Afrika in 2007.

Die VF Plus kan nie vir hierdie begrotingspos stem nie en wel om die eenvoudige rede dat hierdie begrotingspos se geld aangewend gaan word om die Minister in staat te stel om sy magte, wat hy verkry in terme van die Wysigingswet op Sport en Ontspanning, uit te oefen en deur te voer. Hierdie magte stel die Minister in staat om in te meng in dispute wat hy self kan skep. Hy kan self riglyne uitvaardig oor hoe spanne moet lyk en wanneer daar dispute oor die spanne kom, kan hy self ingryp om die dispuut op te los. Dit is ’n onaanvaarbare situasie. Die VF Plus kan dit nie aanvaar nie en kan om daardie rede ook nie hierdie begroting steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr W D SPIES: Chairperson, it is actually very sad that we have to vote on the Budget Vote for sport and recreation, as I think we all agree that sport has the potential to be one of the most uniting factors in this country. We have already seen it in our history. We saw it in 1995 and again in 1996, but unfortunately things are different in South Africa in 2007.

The FF Plus cannot support this Vote for the simple reason that the money for this Vote will be used to enable the Minister to exercise and implement the power, he has in terms of the National Sport and Recreation Amendment Act. These powers enable the Minister to intervene in disputes which he can create himself. He will be able to issue guidelines concerning the composition of teams and, when it comes to a dispute over the teams, he will be able to intervene himself and settle the dispute. This is an unacceptable situation. The FF Plus cannot accept it and, for this reason, cannot support this budget either.]

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Chairperson, the ANC Stellenbosch resolution demands of the ANC to increase the pace of transformation in sport, and up to now we have not had another conference. The ANC has not reviewed that for any other reason. Therefore, it is on the right course to increase the pace of transformation in sport in particular in this country.

The other matter is around the issue of Boxing SA. The DA, through Mr Lee, knows that in terms of the disclaimer that the Auditor-General gave there are only two things that he talked about. This is not the huge discrepancy that he is trying to purport in front of this House. He knows, in terms of the matter we have asked Boxing SA about, that they must report on a quarterly basis so that we can see how they are resolving this matter. They have done exactly that. They are no longer in that situation and the next time they report on what Mr Lee discussed they will no longer have that problem. I do not know what the problem is now.

The other thing is that as far as the Bill before the House today is concerned, what Mr Spies was saying is not correct. Mr Spies is so obsessed – like Donald Lee – that a change is only racist when it is a change demanded by the majority of the people of this country. It is not racist when it is demanded in exclusion of the majority of the people of this country. Thank you, Chair.

Division demanded.

During division:

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, op ’n punt van orde: kan ons net duidelikheid kry? Gewoonlik as die stelsel geaktiveer word, verander die skermpie ook, maar ek sien by baie lede verander hy nie. Is dit dan ’n defek in die stelsel? Moet ons dan ons name weer gee of word hy nog steeds aangeteken as jy net die knoppies druk?

Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me C-S Botha): Laat ek net vra. Net ’n oomblik. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, on a point of order: Can we just have clarity? Usually the screen also changes when the system is activated, but I see this isn’t happening for many of the members. Is it a defect in the system? Do we have to enter our names again or is it still logged on if you just press the buttons?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Let me just ask. Just a moment.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Chair, it would appear that most of the people whose system isn’t working are not members of the DA. I’m quite happy to ask members of the DA to go round to assist people on how to vote in future. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Agb Groenewald, die name kom deur. [Hon Groenewald, the names are coming through.]

Mr P J GROENEWALD: Goed. [Very well.]

The House divided:

AYES - 255: Abram, S; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cupido, H B ; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Du Toit, D C ; Dudley, C; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Godi, N T; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madikiza, G T; Madlala-Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlangu- Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mars, I; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe- Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mdladlose, M M; Mentor, M P; Meshoe, K R J; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, G J; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson- Jacobs, J; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala- Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S; Wang, Y; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 37: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 19 - Correctional Services – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr J SELFE: Chairperson, there are thousands of dedicated officials in the Department of Correctional Services who succeed, against overwhelming odds, in making a difference, and in achieving the goal of correcting and rehabilitating offenders. To them we say: Well done and keep it up.

We are also delighted that Mr Vernie Petersen has been appointed as the new national commissioner and we hope that he will be the proverbial new broom that will sweep clean.

But there’s another side to the department. It’s the side that has resulted in five successive qualified audits of the department’s accounts. It’s the department that, in its kid-glove treatment of Schabir Shaik and Tony Yengeni, made a mockery of their sentences. It’s the department that has only half completed one of the eight new generation prisons promised between 2002 and 2006.

It’s the department whose members allowed Annanias Mathe to escape from a prison that was supposedly the most secure in South Africa. It’s the department that lost 8 292 tagging devices in Westville at a cost of more than R7 million that no one seems to have accounted for. It’s the department that, despite the huge challenges it faces, underspent on last year’s budget and left 1 718 funded posts unfilled. Under these circumstances we must and we will oppose the Vote. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mrs S A SEATON: Madam Chair, we will support this Budget Vote. However, we have to agree that there are major problems in this department. We sincerely hope that this year the budget will be spent as planned. In fact, the funds need to be spent as planned this year. We hope that the staff shortages will be addressed once and for all. We really do have a problem, and it needs to be addressed. We need to see that the corruption is stamped out in this department. There are major problems, and they have to be addressed.

We want to see that the concerns that the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services have addressed will be dealt with and that we get answers to these matters this year. We want to see the eight new generation prisons built this year. We really want to see progress.

We also congratulate the new national commissioner. I believe we have an extremely capable, very motivated and very positive man in our new commissioner and with his help, I believe, we can make a difference. Minister, I hope that you will be tackling these challenges this year to see that this department really moves.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agbare Voorsitter, die Departement van Korrektiewe Dienste is een van die komponente wat baie belangrik is vir die bekamping van misdaad in Suid-Afrika. Stem die agbare Minister saam of nie met die feit dat ‘n persoon soos Tony Yengeni voorkeurbehandeling kry en dat hy nie sy volle deel van sy vonnis hoef uit te dien nie. Ek kan vir die agbare Minister voorbeelde gee van ander gevangenes wat ‘n baie meer geringer oortreding as mnr Tony Yengeni begaan het en wat langer in die gevangenis moet deurbring.

Daardie persepsie gee ‘n sein na die publiek toe dat as jy die regte lidmaatskaart het, dan gaan jy voorkeurbehandeling kry. Dit bevorder beslis misdaad en dit bekamp nie misdaad soos wat dit behoort te doen nie. Misdadigers moet hulle vonnisse uitdien. Die Vryheidsfront Plus sal nie die begroting ondersteun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Correctional Services is one of the components that are vital in combating crime in South Africa. Does the hon Minister agree or disagree with the fact that a person like Tony Yengeni gets preferential treatment and does not have to serve his full sentence. I can give the hon Minister examples of other prisoners who have committed far lesser transgressions than Mr Tony Yengeni and have to remain in prison for longer.

This perception indicates to the public that if one has the correct membership card one will receive preferential treatment. This certainly promotes crime instead of combating crime in the way it is supposed to do. Criminals should serve their sentences. The FF Plus will not support the budget.]

Mr D V BLOEM: Madam Chairperson, we all know very, very well that prisons were never used as rehabilitation centres in the past but rather as tools to oppress freedom fighters. The ANC changed the approach. They are now rehabilitation centres.

Madam Chairperson, I am very confident that our new national commissioner Petersen will make a difference. You can already notice a positive approach by the commissioner. Let’s give him a chance. I’m sure he will prove himself, I am positive about that. The ANC will definitely support this Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Chairperson … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon members, we’ve had these particular unfortunate noises several times when this particular member rises. I really find it despicable and I hope that it is the last time I will ever hear it in this House. Please continue, hon member.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance calls for a division.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 250: Abram, S; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi,
M R; Bapela, K O; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhengu, P;
Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I;
Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A;
Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J
J; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De
Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L;
Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Du Toit, D C ; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T;
Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; George, M E; Gerber, P A;
Gigaba, K M N; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F;
Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E;
Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson,
M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D;
Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M;
Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T;
Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C
I; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R;
Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madikiza, G T; Madlala-Routledge, N C ;
Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlangu-
Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X
C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maloyi, P D N; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke,
D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mars, I; Martins,
B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L;
Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-
Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbombo, N
D; Mdladlose, M M; Mentor, M P; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B
M; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Mofokeng, T R;
Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D;
Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D;
Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N;
Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B;
Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A;
Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W
S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W;
Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G;
Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli,
M M; Ntuli, R S; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D;
Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G
G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M;
Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A;
Radebe, J T; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P
M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J;
Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M;
Selau, J G; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ;
Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B;
Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R;
Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson-Jacobs, J; Thabethe, E;
Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J;
Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der
Merwe, S C ; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Vundisa, S S;
Wang, Y; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.


NOES - 41: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Cupido, H B ; Delport, J T;
Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H
M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-
Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S
J F; Masango, S J; Meshoe, K R J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Nel, A H;
Opperman , S E; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W
J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart,
P S; Swart, S N; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M.

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, I was wondering whether the Rules that have normally been practised in the House have changed. I noted an hon member walking in after the bells had been rung and the doors closed. I wondered whether there is now a change in the House.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs C-S Botha): No Madam, there are no changes with respect to that. I am sorry I did not notice that and I don’t think anybody at the Table did either. The hon member should be aware of the Rules and has breached the Rules of the House. The particular member’s vote will not be recognised and the voting session is now closed. Vote accordingly agreed to.

Vote No 2O – Defence – put.

Declarations of vote:

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Madam Chair, the National Defence Force has admittedly improved with regard to certain issues; one of them being the improvement of the SANDF and the recent and effective deployment of it during the public service strike in order to maintain peace and order.

However, the department’s approach to ensure an increase in the funding of the presidential and VIP air transport fleet and operations at the cost - and I repeat - at the cost of the SA Air Force, is unacceptable. A continued reduction in flying hours and the reduction in the number of pilots, in particular fighter pilots, leaves much to be desired. Our Constitution requires an effective and efficient national defence force, which includes the air force.

Die departement beskik nie oor die vermoë om die voortdurende dreigende probleme rondom onderhandelinge met die weermagunies te besleg nie. Daar is ook die voortdurende gesloer met die aanstelling van ‘n bekwame bevelvoerende generaal vir die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Weermag. Voorts is daar `n gebrek aan dissipline, soos duidelik blyk uit die aard en omvang van optrede jeens …

Die Ouditeur-generaal gee die departement ook gereelde voorbehoude oudits en daar word versuim om `n aanvaarbare uitdienstredingspakket, vrywilliglik of andersins, daar te stel wat gebaseer word op kundigheidsvlakke al dan nie van diegene wie die diens wil verlaat. Dit laat die DA met geen opsie nie as om die begroting te opponeer. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The department does not have the capacity to solve the ongoing threatening problems around negotiations with the defence force unions. There is also the ongoing delay in appointing a competent general officer commanding for the SA National Defence Force. Furthermore, there is a lack of discipline, as is evident from the nature and extent of the behaviour towards … The Auditor General also regularly gives the department qualified audits and no effort has been made to put an acceptable retirement package, voluntarily or otherwise, in place that is based on levels of expertise or lack thereof of those who wish to leave the service. This leaves the DA with no other option but to oppose the budget. I thank you.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, there is a huge gap between the department’s commitments in terms of the Constitution, foreign policy and military doctrine and the resources allocated to building and maintaining its capacity to meet them.

At present we spend just 1,3% of GDP on defence, almost the lowest ratio of most countries that have a significant defence force and are required to perform roles beyond territorial defence. For example, Denmark spends far less than we do, yet has nearly one tenth of our population and far greater regional and continental commitments. Clearly, a political decision needs to be made; either the expectations of what the defence force must do need to be scaled down severely or it must get more money.

Across the board the department is faced with the challenge of retaining persons with scarce skills. Our specialised defence force members must be fairly and reasonably compensated to prevent them being lured to the private sector. It is regrettable therefore that this department did not receive a greater increase in its budget in view of its commitments. Notwithstanding the above, however, the ACDP will support the Budget Vote. I thank you.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, as ‘n mens kyk na die verslae oor die gevegsgereedheid van die weermag, dan is dit eintlik skokkend om te verneem dat daar partykeer nie eens genoeg geld is om genoeg ammunisie te voorsien aan ons voetsoldate nie.

Die regering, Voorsitter, het biljoene rande gaan spandeer aan nuwe wapenaankope. Dit is die belastingbetaler se geld. Dit is ‘n verantwoordelikheid van die regerende party en van hierdie Huis om te verseker dat die belastingbetaler waarde vir sy geld kry.

Nou kom ons met ‘n transformasiebeleid en regstellende aksie wat volgens die VF Plus die oorsaak is dat daar nie genoeg mannekrag is nie en dit is hoekom kundiges die SANW verlaat. Dit moet gestaak word. Alvorens ons nie na hierdie pertinente aspek kyk nie, Voorsitter, sal die VF Plus nie die begroting kan ondersteun nie en gaan ons nie die beste van die bestes kry vir ons nasionale weermag nie. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, if one looks at the reports regarding the combat readiness of the defence force then it is actually shocking to note that sometimes there aren’t even sufficient funds to supply enough ammunition to our foot soldiers.

Chairperson, the government spent billions of rand on the acquisition of new weapons. This is the taxpayer’s money. It is a responsibility of the ruling party and of this House to ensure that the taxpayer gets value for money.

Now we have a transformation policy and affirmation action, which, according to the FF Plus, is the reason why there isn’t enough manpower and that is why experts are leaving the SANDF. This must cease. Until we look at these pertinent issues, Chairperson, the FF Plus will not be able to support this budget and we will not get the best of the best for our national defence force. Thank you.]

Ms T V TOBIAS: Chairperson, the ANC hereby declares that the Department of Defence is on track in connection with building peace and security on the continent, and also building the country’s skills base through the Managing the Service Delivery System programme. Therefore, we want to declare that it is also important to allocate more funds through Jipsa to ensure that the momentum on the MSDS is sustained and the UN should also fund the AU for the hybrid force that has recently been deployed to Sudan.

We also declare a need to allocate more funds through the Special Defence Account to allow the department to furnish its fleet from the strategic defence packages by purchasing a landing ship. We further request the assistance of the National Treasury to ensure the speedy implementation of the financial management system and that they should continue to revamp our battalions, including the 21st battalion, to maintain the high morale of our troops.

We also noted the qualifications that the Auditor-General has presented against the department; however, it is important to set the record straight, that indeed the department has improved and that this fact should be appreciated and we as the portfolio committee will continue to support the department in its endeavours.

It is simplistic for the DA to raise the issue of the VIP fleet as this matter is sub judice. The hon member from the ACDP again drew a comparison between South Africa and Denmark on the issue of our expenditure, yet he knows that the population size of the two countries is not the same, including their economies. So, it is premature for you to draw such comparisons.

We had an intensive discussion during the budget … [Time expired.] The ANC supports this budget.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Independent Democrats dissenting).

Vote No 21 – Independent Complaints Directorate – put.

Declarations of vote:

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP will not support Budget Vote 21. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security have expressed their disapproval of the unjustifiably high number of staff members in the ICD’s national office.

Three provinces, namely the Northern Cape, Free State and Mpumalanga, according to the list of employees that has been given to the members, do not have a single person performing secretarial or clerical duties, while the national office has more than 25 employees performing secretarial and clerical duties. As a result provinces are inhibited in performing their duties and the ACDP will therefore not support this budget, because they had plenty of time to rectify this mistake.

Ms M M SOTYU: Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budget Vote and we believe that the appointment of the new permanent executive director for the ICD will take forward the recommendations of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, and plead with the National Treasury to give more funds to the ICD in order for them to establish satellite offices in all provinces and address the issue of a shortage of staff, especially the investigators in all provinces.

We are aware, Moruti, as much as you are aware, that the department is, of course, addressing the matter with the Minister, but I agree with you. I think we need to be a little bit quicker in that regard, because it is a concern lately. Thank you very much.

Vote agreed to (African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).

Vote No 22 – Justice and Constitutional Development – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr L K JOUBERT: Chairperson, the DA would have loved nothing more than to support this Budget Vote, because we consider justice a cornerstone of democracy. In a government system based on the doctrine of the separation of powers, the justice portfolio is one of the most important portfolios in government. Yet, notwithstanding this, the Minister keeps underperforming.

Dit is nie net ek of die DA wat so dink nie, ook die Mail & Guardian dink so. [Tussenwerpsels.] In die jongste rapport van die koerant – julle moet dit lees! – het die Minister ’n G gekry. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[It is not just I or the DA who think like this, the Mail & Guardian thinks like this as well. [Interjections.] In the latest report card of the newspaper – you must read it! - the Minister received a G. [Interjections.]]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Order, please. Order!

Mnr L K JOUBERT: Dit is die laagste simbool van die hele Kabinet. Suid- Afrika verdien sekerlik beter van sy Minister van Justisie en van haar adjunk. Ook in die Balie is die opinie van die Minister nie baie hoog nie. ’n Senior advokaat het onlangs die volgende te sê gehad: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr L K JOUBERT: This is the lowest symbol in the whole Cabinet. South Africa certainly deserves better from its Minister of Justice and her deputy. Even in the Bar Council the opinion of the Minister is not very high. A senior advocate recently said the following:]

The wheels of policy formation and implementation in the area of justice and constitutional development turn so slowly that, like the wheels of a car taking off in a movie, they appear at times to turn in reverse and at times the proposed policies appear to be taking us to a past we thought we had left behind.

The Minister is not here today, but we wanted to give her a message by objecting to this Budget Vote and that message is: Minister, get your act together. You owe it to South Africa. Thank you.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I wish to refer to the Budget Vote debate on Justice that took place on 29 May in which we raised, once again, the question of 383 applications for presidential pardons. This is as a result of what the Human Rights Commission found, namely that the Minister had violated the human rights of those people.

But the Deputy Minister said in the debate - now the Human Rights Commission has never taken a decision on this matter and has not placed a single report before the Minister – “all we have is a one-and-a-half-page letter from a junior official in that unit”.

Madam Chairperson, this is absolute nonsense and it is not true. The truth is totally different. The Human Rights Commission has confirmed to us once again today that the decision was in fact a decision by the commission. And that, secondly, where the Deputy Minister says there was only a one-pager from a junior, I have numerous letters in my hand that Jodi Kollapen, the chairperson, has written to the Minister. This means that the hon Deputy Minister has …

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: [Inaudible.]

Mnr J H VAN DER MERWE: Wie sê ek lieg? [Gelag.] Hoor u wat sê hy, mevrou? [Gelag.]

Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me C-S Botha): Agb Adjunkminister, sal u asseblief terugtrek wat u gesê het? Die ADJUNKMINISTER VIR JUSTISIE EN STAATKUNDIGE ONTWIKKELING: Ek sal dit terugtrek as hy dit ook terugtrek. Hy het net gesê ons lieg, toe sê ek vir hom hy lieg. So, as hy dit terugtrek, trek ek dit onvoorwaardelik terug.

Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me C-S Botha): Nee, ek het nie gevra vir ’n voorwaardelike terugtrekking nie. Ek het net gevra dat u dit terugtrek. Baie dankie. Sal u asseblief voortgaan?

Mnr J H VAN DER MERWE: Voorsitter, feit is, die Adjunkminister het die Parlement mislei deur te sê die Menseregtekommissie het nie die bevinding gemaak nie en daar is nie briewe geskryf nie. Die bewyse is daar. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Who says I am lying? [Laughter.] Did you hear what he said, Madam?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Deputy Minister, will you please withdraw what you just said?

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: I shall withdraw it if he withdraws what he said. He only said that we were lying and then I said to him that he was lying. So, if he withdraws what he said, I will unconditionally withdraw what I said.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): No, I did not ask for a conditional withdrawal. I just asked you to withdraw what you said. Thank you. Will you continue please?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, the fact is, the Deputy Minister has misled Parliament by saying the Human Rights Commission did not make that finding and no letters were written. The proof is there.]

In addition, the Human Rights Commission is so upset about the Minister’s violation of human rights that the Human Rights Commission informed me today that they are considering intervening in the High Court case against the Minister as amicus curiae. It appears therefore that the hon Deputy Minister has misled the House. He should apologise and he should withdraw. Then the hon De Lange …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Van der Merwe, I regret your time has expired.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: My time has not expired. He wasted my time and you’ve not taken that into consideration. [Interjections.] I need another five seconds. [Interjections.] There was a song many years ago “Give Me Five Minutes More”! [Interjections.] May I conclude?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I regret, this is not the opera. Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: I just want to say that the Minister needs …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): No, hon Van der Merwe.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: You need to learn a lot about humility!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Van der Merwe, please take your seat now!

Ms F I CHOHAN: Madam Chair, he just said that the hon Deputy Minister is a “poephol”. Is that acceptable? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Van der Merwe, is the accusation correct?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: The accusation is correct. He is one. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Van der Merwe, you may be funny, but you’re doing this House no justice. Please withdraw, without stating what you said.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: I withdraw. [Laughter.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I’ll make no reflections on any Ministers, thank you. A judicial system is only as good as those who administer the law. Whilst there are very many dedicated prosecutors and magistrates, the prolonged process of dealing with crime is aggravated by a criminal justice system that is struggling to cope. Chairperson, I can’t hear myself.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon members, please!

Mr S N SWART: Courts are understaffed and court rolls clogged to such an extent that cases are continuously postponed with a knock-on effect on the number of awaiting-trial prisoners kept in deplorable conditions of overcrowding.

The problems in the various links in the criminal justice system, from the arrest by an investigating police officer to the prosecutor to the correctional services officer to the interpreter, judicial officer and defence lawyer, remain a challenge. A delay in any one of these links severely affects the whole chain and adds to the backlog of cases.

The ACDP supports an integrated approach whereby the four key departments: Safety and Security, Justice, Correctional Services and Welfare, take responsibility for the success of the systems by means of binding interdepartmental protocols. Such protocols will serve to enhance and strengthen the existing integrated justice system court centres. Notwithstanding these many and various challenges, however, the ACDP will support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

Ms F I CHOHAN: Chairperson, I must say I am rather taken aback. The hon Joubert seems to use every opportunity he can to attack the Minister personally and I must say that it comes as an enormous surprise to me, bearing in mind that we’ve had very substantive discussions and inputs during the budget hearings.

I will have no fear of embarrassing the Minister today when I say the following - because she’s not here. The Minister is an extremely competent and consensus-seeking person and you interpret this latter quality as a weakness at your own peril. Frankly, I don’t think that your personal attacks make her lose any sleep, Mr Joubert. I think also that what this does is expose very blatantly your small-mindedness. [Interjections.]

As to Mr Van der Merwe who keeps flogging this dead horse even after it was dealt a fatal blow in the Budget debate, it is a well-known fact, and everybody knows it here, that the IFP had called on their rank and file not to participate in the TRC hearings. As the rest of us have moved on into the future, there is Mr Van der Merwe flogging this horse, tabling cream cakes and going to court and blaming the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development for all of his sins that he should really bear the responsibly for. I think it is an utter, utter shame. The department this year receives an additional R473 million to deal with some of the problems that the ACDP raised and the ANC will definitely support this Budget Vote.

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I am feeling very offended by Koos calling the Minister names. It must stop now. [Interjections.] It must stop! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon members, before I take anything further, I would ask you to take your seats, not to use that word again at all, whether in response or originally, and to treat this House with the respect it deserves. Are there any further objections?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Chairperson, I beg leave to tender an explanation, which I think I am entitled to in terms of the Standing Rules, resulting from the words spoken by the Chairperson of the Justice Committee.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I will confer with the Table whether there is any such Rule.

Hon Van der Merwe, although I think you are entitled to do so, I would prefer in this instance that you come and discuss it with me later on and if we need to take it any further in the House tomorrow we shall do so. Thank you very much. Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: I just wanted to say that I never asked anybody not to go to the TRC. In fact, I defended people.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Van der Merwe, you are out of order.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and United Party of South Africa dissenting).

Vote No 23 – Safety and Security – put.

Declarations of vote:

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Chairperson, while there are signs that government is beginning to retreat from its denialist stance with regard to crime and the impact it’s having on the citizens of this country, the reality today is that crime is the major factor behind immigration, while equally creating a negative impact on tourism and deterring foreign investment.

With 50 or more citizens murdered here daily, coupled with the increase in violence in relation to crimes, the focus must be on how it is that the Ministry of Safety and Security spends its considerable budget, yet fails absolutely to fulfil its mandate.

The SAPS has failed to produce anything new in relation to fighting crime and corruption in this country and with 529 police members suspended for corruption this past year, the calibre of our police and the quality of their training must be questioned and one must also question how it is the Minister intends to supply training to the thousands of new recruits he intends to pull in before 2010. Also to be considered is the seemingly bottomless pit down which Saps pours millions - that being the implementation of the Firearms Act – with citizens waiting for years for a licence or being refused outright.

Visible policing isn’t visible, despite the directive from the President. Station after station claims that it has a shortage of equipment. Bulletproof vests for women, for example, are always on order. The forensic laboratories are not functional in any sense of the word with, for example, eight out of ten motorists caught for drunk driving in Buffalo City, never having to go to court, because the blood test results just don’t come back in time. The Ministry states that there is a backlog of 6 086 samples in our laboratories and today claims are emerging that these figures are grossly understated.

Finally, with the political appointment of the shady National Commissioner, coupled with the seemingly endless Scorpions investigation of him and the Minister’s regular absences from the country, the management structures are weak from the top down. Voting for the Budget Vote would suggest that the DA supports the Ministry’s intention to spend more on much of the same, though there are no indications that it would do otherwise. Therefore, of course, we vote against the budget.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Chairperson, I assume that the VIP drivers and bodyguards fall under this particular Minister and I want to bring to his attention that it now happens regularly that you see them driving at high speed, overtaking on the left, for instance - and I have seen this personally - between Parliament and the airport, cutting in over solid white and yellow lines, pushing people out of the way, driving in excess of 180 km per hour, endangering the lives of citizens.

I’m sure the Minister will not allow that, but I ask him to look into that and to assure those drivers that they are not above the law. They are not above the law and if they transgress, if they commit traffic offences, they should be prosecuted.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, the ACDP will be supporting the Safety and Security Budget Vote, not because we are satisfied with the performance of our police, but because we want to see their salaries and conditions of service greatly improved.

The level of crime in our country is still too high and the investigation capacity of many of our detectives leaves much to be desired. We want to appeal to the hon Minister to ensure that the police keep members of the public informed about progress made in the investigation of cases they have reported.

Promises made to victims of crime must be kept so that trust and confidence in the police service can remain high. We will support the Vote.

Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, in the hon Minister’s response in the Budget Vote he referred to me and he said:

We will not find each other. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

I want to agree with the hon Minister, we will not find each other as long as the hon Minister is part of the executive surrounded by bodyguards and I am part of the public who don’t have the privilege of bodyguards. [Interjections.]

Agb Minister, of u dit nou wil weet of nie, misdaad daar buite raak ons mense. Die afgelope drie jaar was meer as 2,5 miljoen mense slagoffers van geweldsmisdaad, maar die agb Minister sê die toekoms, wat misdaad in Suid- Afrika betref, lyk rooskleurig. Agb Minister, u is eintlik in ’n toestand van ontkenning en solank as wat u in daardie fase is, sal u nie misdaad behoorlik kan bekamp nie. Daarom sal die VF Plus dan ook nie hierdie begroting ondersteun nie. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [Hon Minister, whether you want to know it or not, the crime out there is affecting our people. In the past three years more than 2,5 million people were victims of violent crime, but the hon Minister says that the future, as far as crime in South Africa is concerned, looks rosy. Hon Minister, you are actually in a state of denial and as long as you remain in that phase, you will not be able to combat crime properly. That is why the FF Plus will also not be supporting this budget. Thank you.]

Ms M M SOTYU: Chairperson, I don’t want to call anybody anything, not even a “poephol”, but I’m not even going to bother myself with a basket full of nothing, especially nothing new.

I would like to urge the members of the committee to stop demoralising the morale of the police and make the criminals feel great by always being so negative towards everything that the police and the Minister are doing. Say something positive for a change! Something about the running of police stations like Galeshewe in Kimberley. You were in Kimberley, you saw what the police were doing, you said nothing. You were in Bloemfontein in Bloemspruit, you saw the morale of the police under difficult conditions, you said nothing. You were in Welkom Police Station at ten o’clock in the evening, you saw what the police were doing, you said nothing.

The hon member Kohler-Barnard reported to the Chairperson about the non- cooperation of the police commissioner in Pinetown Police Station. The chairperson arranged for a delegation of members of the portfolio committee to go to that station. And what happened? She was not to be found. You were never there. [Interjections.] The portfolio committee went to that station. You did not go to that station to address some of the issues that you are raising here.

The ANC supports this budget. Thank you. [Interjections.]

Division demanded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon member, a cell phone has certainly, as far as I’ve seen, never been used so openly in this Chamber. [Interjections.] Please, cell phones are not used in here. Switch it off. Thank you. All members in their allocated seats, voting will now commence.

Mr F T MASERUMULE: Again, Tlokwe Maserumule, once again.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I’m so sorry. Are there any other members who need to indicate that their vote hasn’t been recorded?

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: I’d like to think this has nothing to do with you, Chairperson. Again.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): No, I can assure you, it hasn’t. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: I know. Again, on the “yes” vote, please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Your vote will be recorded. Anybody else?

Ms L L MABE: Koos van der Merwe. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you. Order, please. The voting session is now closed.

An HON MEMBER: Siyambongela uKoos van der Merwe. [We congratulate Koos van der Merwe.] [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Siyabonga. [Thank you.]

The House divided:

AYES - 247: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bapela, K O; Bekker, H J; Bhamjee, Y S; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, M J; Bhoola, R B; Bici, J; Biyela, B P ; Bloem, D V; Bogopane- Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Buthelezi, M G; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chang, E S; Chikunga, L S; Chohan-Khota, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cupido, H B ; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Direko, I W; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Du Toit, D C ; Dudley, C; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E ; Gerber, P A; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Gore, V C; Greyling, C H F; Greyling, L W; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hangana, N E; Hendricks, L B; Hendrickse, P A C; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kekana, C D; Kganyago, N M; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Komphela, B M; Kondlo, N C; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lebenya, P; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Madikiza, G T; Madlala-Routledge, N C ; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlangu- Nkabinde, G L; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Manana, M N S; Manuel, T A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mars, I; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbombo, N D; Mdladlose, M M; Mentor, M P; Meshoe, K R J; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Molefe, C T; Moleketi, P J ; Moloto, K A; Monareng, O E; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Mpahlwa, M B ; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, M L; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Nkabinde, N C; Nkuna, C; Nqakula, C; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Rabinowitz, R; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Roopnarain, U; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Seaton, S A; Sefularo, M; Selau, J G; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Sibuyana, M W; Sigcau , S N; Sisulu, L N; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E ; Swanson-Jacobs, J; Thabethe, E; Tobias, T V; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Van Wyk, A; Vos, S C; Woods, G G; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.

NOES - 38: Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Delport, J T; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Joubert, L K; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Leon , A J; Lowe, C M; Marais, S J F; Masango, S J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Sayedali- Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Seremane, W J; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart, P S; Swathe, M M; Trent, E W; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M.

Vote accordingly agreed to.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Chair, may I address you before you put the next Vote.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): On what point, hon Minister?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: On the decorum of the House. The hon Van der Merwe used a word in relation to the Deputy Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development which has been repeated, subsequently, by other members of the House. I think we do the House and the presence of the National Assembly a very grave disservice if we allow this to continue and I’m rising to plead that … [Interjections.] … I’m talking about all members. Would you kindly allow me to speak? Words such as this one shouldn’t find a place in a House like this, and I plead that we desist from using them. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Chairperson, I just want to say that I was enraged when I used the word. I withdraw it and I apologise.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you very much. I hope that now closes the debate on this issue for ever and ever.

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, I concur with what the hon Minister of Finance has said and I suggest that we put this matter on the agenda of the Chief Whips’ Forum, which is scheduled to meet tomorrow. It’s not the first time that we have discussed the issue of the decorum of the House, but I think today’s proceedings certainly necessitate that we reopen that matter. Thanks.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms S-C Botha): Hon Nel, I wish you had said that some time ago and not waited for the Minister to lead you. [Interjections.]

Vote No 24 – Agriculture – put.

Declaration of vote:

Mr J BICI: Chairperson, the UDM will support the Budget Vote, but would like to express concern about issues relating to the Land Bank that have recently been exposed in a meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa.

The Land Bank is supposed to be a development finance institution, yet it has shifted the goalposts and has since become more of a commercial than a development bank. It is critical that the Land Bank is focused upon its development mandate, since agriculture is such a core element in ensuring that the land reform programme succeeds in a meaningful way.

There is a huge need to support the growth of emerging farmers and agribusiness, and this cannot be achieved without development-focused financing. Thank you.

Vote agreed to.

Vote No 25 – Communications – put.

Declaration of vote:

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, common good is undoubtedly best served by a free flow of information. It is a vital function and indeed a duty of the press and other media to make available information and analyses about every aspect of public, political, social and economic activity.

The media has played a crucial role in exposing crime, corruption, mismanagement and nepotism, both in the public and the private spheres. In view of this, the obvious question is: How did the Films and Publications Amendment Bill pass through Cabinet considering its serious constitutional flaws, particularly in relation to Icasa’s jurisdiction?

Clearly, the removal of the exemption for broadcasters infringes upon the constitutional domain of Icasa. Icasa is the regulator for broadcasting, and not the Films and Publications Board. At the very least though, following the intervention of Parliament, Icasa’s unfettered constitutional jurisdiction over broadcasters has been reinstated.

We, as the ACDP, trust that the NCOP will consider the ACDP’s proposal to reinstate total exemptions for the print media and broadcasters, with the media being subject to criminal sanctions related to child pornography. Notwithstanding the above, the ACDP will support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 26 – Environmental Affairs and Tourism – put and agreed to. Vote No 27 – Housing – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr A C STEYN: Madam Chairperson, the DA believes that the Housing Budget to date has not been spent efficiently, effectively and economically. That should usually be reason enough not to support the Budget Vote. However, the DA recognises and acknowledges that a great many of our citizens, for various reasons, mostly not of their own making, are unable to provide basic shelter for themselves or their families.

While we have doubts regarding the claim by the department that they have delivered 2,4 million houses to date, due to the many blocked and incomplete projects identified, we nevertheless recognise that without state support the legitimate families who have benefited would otherwise still be living on the streets.

We also identify with the Minister’s vision of moving away from houses in the veld to the creation of sustainable communities. We further take note of the Minister’s stated intention to learn from her department’s mistakes, notably with regard to the N2 Gateway pilot project, the acknowledgement of the department’s internal maladministration, the Presidential proclamation of the Special Investigating Unit to combat widespread corruption within the housing sector and the Minister’s commitment to deal with officials who have unfairly benefited from the housing subsidy scheme.

The DA therefore supports the Housing Budget and pledges to support and criticise the department where necessary in order to ensure the efficient, effective and economical delivery of a sustainable product to the rightful beneficiaries in this country. I thank you, Chairperson.

Mr H B CUPIDO: Madam Chairperson, the ACDP would like to speak in support of this budget and acknowledge that the provision of affordable housing for the poor has been and will remain a huge challenge to any government, especially in a climate of rapid urbanisation. Therefore, the need for a national housing database is urgent and we welcome the announcement by the hon Minister on this matter during the Budget Vote debate.

People must be prevented from being able to access the housing subsidy system more than once or in more than one province. Having a national database for housing will be a way of addressing the backlog much faster and preventing duplication of housing.

Mr G D SCHNEEMANN: Chairperson, the Housing Budget Vote, which we are about to vote on, provides additional resources that will enable the housing delivery programme to increase the number of houses to be constructed in the 2007-08 financial year. We in the ANC wish to welcome the increase in the allocation to Vote 27, which is up from R7,3 billion in 2006-07 financial year to the current R8,8 billion in this financial year as well as the increase in the housing subsidy to R38 984. It will be important that, as we continue to see increases in the housing share of the budget, the department continues to strengthen both its monitoring and evaluation capacity.

The newly developed norms and standards, which came into effect on 1 April 2007, are welcome. This means that breaking new ground houses will be quality houses of 40 square meters in size and consist of two bedrooms, a separate bathroom with toilet, shower and hand basin, a separate kitchen area with a kitchen sink. We want to express our support for both the budget and the programme of work, which was announced by the Minister in her budget speech a few weeks ago.

I want to conclude that it is correct that this ANC-led government has built 2,4 million houses and will continue to do so. I would like to suggest that the hon Steyn and his party should be ashamed of themselves for having openly admitted last year that we only built one house. Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Vote agreed to.

Vote No 28 – Land Affairs – put. Declarations of vote:

Mr A H NEL: Chairperson, we did not support the Budget Vote for Land Affairs last year, because it was the only way we could have demonstrated our opposition to the underspending of the budget, the ineffective administration and the irresponsible statements by senior officials of the department.

This year again, in contrast to what the Minister has said in her Budget Speech, R1,2 billion was taken off her budget in the adjustment budget in November 2006 because the department could not spend it.

Why then support the budget for Land Affairs this year? This is a valid question. We considered the following issues: Firstly, the acceptance of a proactive land acquisition strategy which we think is the right way to go; secondly, the creation of a special purpose vehicle, an agency which is targeted to speed up sustainable land reform; thirdly, positive sentiments flowing from the Presidential Agricultural Workshop; and fourthly, the acceptance by the Minister of the goodwill of landowners and their willingness to help.

In the light of these positive events and plans, we will support the Budget Vote on Land Affairs and we will diligently monitor the progress made to see if our support is in vain or not. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Mr J BICI: Madam Chair, we shall support the Budget Vote again, but we would like to declare our concern about the Land Restitution and Redistribution Programme. The pace of land reform has consistently been slower than was projected. The department faces a very ambitious target of redistribution of nearly 25 million hectares of white-owned agricultural land to black people by 2014.

The Constitution correctly protects the property rights of the current landowners where there is no historical claim against the land and large- scale expropriation would not only face time-consuming and expensive legal challenges but would also damage nation building.

It is therefore problematic that there continues to be uncertainty in the department about the actual size, location and arability of state-owned land. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die agb Minister is baie lief daarvoor om die boere daarvan te beskuldig dat hulle as grondeienaars uit hulle pad gaan om grondhervorming in Suid-Afrika te benadeel en te vertraag. Ek het ’n amptelike vraag aan die agb Minister in hierdie Huis gevra oor die grondeise wat oor die afgelope drie finansiële jare toegestaan is. Die agb Minister het my geantwoord en aangedui dat meer as 24 000 eise deur die departement uitbetaal is en amper R4 miljard is daarop gespandeer. Die agb Minister het ook gesê dat nie een enkele eis teengestaan is nie. As dit die antwoord is van die agb Minister, dan mislei sy die publiek wanneer sy die indruk probeer skep dat dit die boere en die grondeienaars is wat grondhervorming wil vertraag. Sy moet kyk na haar eie departement se onbeholpenheid soms met sekere grondeise.

Die departement het belastinggeld gebruik om ’n veldtog teen boere te loods in Desembermaand en dit was ’n uiters groot belediging vir die boere. Anders as die DA, sal die VF Plus, net op grond van die feit dat u belastingbetalergeld gebruik om ’n advertensieveldtog te voer teen boere en hul integriteit daarmee aangetas het, nie hierdie begrotingspos ondersteun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, the hon Minister loves to accuse farmers that they, as landowners, are going out of their way to impair and delay land reform in South Africa. I posed an official question to the hon Minister in this House about the land claims which were sanctioned over the past three financial years. The hon Minister answered me and indicated that more than 24 000 claims had been paid out by the department and that almost R4 billion had been spent on that. The hon Minister also said that not a single claim had been opposed.

If this is the answer of the hon Minister, then she is misleading the public when she tries to create the impression that it is the farmers and landowners who want to delay land reform. She should look at her own department’s ineptitude at times with certain land claims.

The department used taxpayers’ money to launch a campaign against farmers in December and it was a very grave insult to farmers. Unlike the DA, the FF Plus will not support this Budget Vote, solely on the grounds that you used taxpayers’ money to conduct an advertising campaign against farmers and thereby tarnished their integrity.]

Mrs D G NHLENGETHWA: Madam Chairperson, I’ll only respond to committee members. I won’t deal with people who are here representing farmers only, knowing that South Africa has all kinds of people and the entire population is represented by the majority of the people of South Africa, and not farmers only.

The 2007-08 budget of the Department of Land Affairs is a substantial testimony to the ANC-led government’s commitment to land reform and social justice. The increase in the 2007 financial year showed that through the restitution programme we are indeed committed to restoring dignity to hundreds of thousands of beneficiaries who were victims of racial dispossession. We all know that it took you, in your era, one minute to dispossess, destroy and displace those people. It will take us some time to replace them on their own land.

We fully support the turnaround strategy that the Ministry is coming up with, like Operation Gijima and the special purpose vehicle project to speed up the process of land redistribution. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 28. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Vote agreed to (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).

Vote No 29 – Minerals and Energy - put.

Declarations of vote:

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Madam Chair, the DA opposes this Budget Vote for, inter alia, the following reasons: Firstly, the department’s and hence the government’s approach to the supply of electricity has been, to say the least, atrocious. Currently the whole country is living with the threat of possible rolling power outages due to a dramatically reduced and below standard reserve margin related to the supply of electricity in this country.

Secondly, the Oilgate saga, where the ANC was paid R11 million via a parastatal, that is PetroSA, has still not been resolved satisfactorily. The Public Protector has indicated that he will consider the possible reopening of this matter. The ANC has to date still to respond by paying the money back to PetroSA.

The third point is the failure by government to take all necessary steps to curb the dramatic rise in the price of fuel by increasing the state levy and other costs which are added to the basic price of fuel instead of reducing the cost of fuel. Government, in fact, contributes to the rising costs by raising its only income from the sale of every litre of fuel, in particular petrol and diesel. The DA opposes the Budget Vote. I thank you.

Mr L W GREYLING: Chairperson, hon Minister, the ID would really like to support the Minerals and Energy budget. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do so when we see year in and year out lip service being paid to renewable energy without any substantial financial resources being dedicated to it.

The time has come to signal a break with the past and to start to position South Africa as a future world leader in renewable energy. The possibilities are there but we need to start dedicating serious resources to this field.

It is also unacceptable to the ID that we now intend to meet our already small renewable energy target by relying mainly on biofuels. Biofuels can certainly form part of a future energy mix but that cannot replace the need for technology such as solar, wind, wave and a whole host of others.

Let us embrace the future and start positioning South Africa at the forefront of the renewable energy revolution. It is only then that the ID would support the budget. I thank you.

Mr E N MTHETHWA: Chair, I think the first thing we need to do is to differentiate between …

… umlotha nomquba nje namaqiniso. I-DA yazi kahle ukuthi kusukela ngo- 2004 silokhu simatasatasa sithuthukisa ingqalasizinda. [… the garbage, trash and the truth. The DA knows very well that since 2004, we are very busy developing the infrastructure.]

This year, during the debate on this Budget Vote, 10 substations were mentioned by the Minister.

Bayakwazi lokho. Kodwa-ke njengoba belapha bafuna nje ukubukwa ngabantu abalaphaya kwi-gallery. Maqondana ne-ID, lungu elihloniphekile, uyabona usungenza ngishintshe umqondo. Besithi sizokucelela ukuba ube yingxenye yaleli thimba okufanele liye eLatin America ukuze ukwazi ukukuqonda ukuthi udaba lwezamandla akwaziyo ukuvuseleleka seluhambe kangakanani nokuthi yiziphi izinselelo ezikhona. Manje usungenza ngifune ukuwutshinta ngempela umqondo.

Maqondana nalokho okushilo, inkinga ukuthi sinezinto eziningi esibhekene nazo eMnyangweni wonke. Asinaso isikhathi sokubhekana “neMail and Garbage”. Musa ukulokhu uzositshela izindaba “zeMail and Garbage”. [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[And they know that. But now, because there are people sitting in the gallery, they start showing off. Well, with regard to the ID, you see, hon member, you make me change my mind. We had planned that we would plead for you to be part of the delegation that is going to Latin America so that you will understand how far they have gone with regard to biofuels and the challenges they are facing. And now you want me to change my mind.

Regarding what you said, the problem here is that we are dealing with a lot of things in the whole department. We don’t have time for the “Mail and Garbage”. So stop telling us the stories from the “Mail and Garbage”. [Interjections.]]

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Independent Democrats and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).

Vote No 30 - Public Enterprises - put.

Declarations of vote:

Dr S M VAN DYK: Agb Voorsitter, in die afwesigheid van die Minister, kan die DA nie Begrotingspos 30 goedkeur nie omdat die Departement vir Openbare Ondernemings nie omsigtig met die belastinggeld omgaan nie en dit swak bestuur. Die department wend toegewese geld ook nie optimaal aan nie en begroot onverskillig om aan openbare behoeftes te voldoen.

Die department bestee te veel op senior aangestelde personeel teen hoë salarisse. Vir elke twee junior poste word ‘n senior pos geskep van direkteursvlak af en hoër. Tog bestee die department R34 miljoen aan konsultante om sy werk vir hom te doen. Die department spog met vier adjunk- direkteurs-generaal uit ‘n totale personeel van net 138.

Die department het R280 miljoen van verlede jaar se begroting nie bestee nie en het vir die huidige boekjaar R1,3 miljard te min begroot as gevolg van swak besigheidsplanne wat aan die Tesourie voorgelê is vir die ontwikkeling van die korrelbed- modulêre kernreaktor; juis noudat Suid- Afrika meer elektrisiteit benodig.

Die doel van die department is om met behulp van openbare ondernemings die ekonomie te help ontwikkel, mededinging te bevorder en dividende op belastinggeld terug te ploeg tot die Staatskas, maar in praktyk misluk die department en word die teenoorgestelde bereik.

Openbare ondernemings absorbeer 72% van die department se begroting. Ten spyte daarvan skop die SA Lugdiens, met sy 11 direkteure wat gesamentlik 136 direkteurskappe beklee, die boekjaar af met ‘n verlies van R1,3 miljard, terwyl Denel met sy 13 direkteure, wat gesamentlik op 111 direksies dien, sukkel om finansieel te oorleef en vanjaar vir die soveelste keer byna R1 miljard uit die Staatskas ontvang vir oorlewing.

Gegewe ook Eskom, wat sukkel met swak onderhoud- en kapasiteitsprobleme, asook Transnet, wat nie voldoende in die vervoerbehoeftes van Suid-Afrika kan voorsien nie, asook Alexkor, wat teen ‘n verlies funksioneer, kan die DA nie hierdie Begrotingspos goedkeur nie. Omdat die departement ook nie aan sy missie voldoen nie, vra die DA dat sy teenstem geboekstaaf word. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Dr S M VAN DYK: Hon Chairperson, in the absence of the Minister the DA is unable to approve Budget Vote 30, because the Department of Public Enterprises does not handle taxpayers’ money judiciously, but mismanages it. Furthermore, the department does not use allotted funds optimally and is careless in budgeting for public needs.

The department spends too much money on senior staff appointed at high salaries. For every two junior posts, a senior post is established at director’s level or higher. Yet the department spends R34 million on consultants to do its work. The department boasts four deputy directors- general out of a total staff component of just 138.

The department failed to spend R280 million of last year’s budget, and it underbudgeted by R1,3 billion for the current financial year, on account of the poor quality of business plans submitted to the Treasury for the development of the pebble-bed modular nuclear reactor; this at a time when South Africa needs more electricity.

The department’s objective is to develop the economy with the aid of public enterprises, to promote competition, and to channel dividends on taxpayers’ money back to the Treasury, but in practice it is failing to achieve this objective and is doing the opposite.

Public enterprises absorb 72% of the department’s budget. Despite this SAA, with its 11 directors who together hold 136 directorships, started the financial year with a loss of R1,3 billion, while Denel, with its 13 directors who together serve on a total of 111 boards, is struggling to survive financially and this year, for the umpteenth time, is receiving almost R1 billion from the Treasury to ensure its survival.

Given that Eskom is also struggling with problems relating to poor maintenance and capacity, while Transnet cannot meet South Africa’s transport needs adequately, and Alexkor is also operating at a loss, the DA cannot approve this Budget Vote. Since the department is also failing to carry out its mission, the DA requests that its objection be recorded. Thank you.]

Mr P A C HENDRICKSE: Madam Chair, in the 20th century the developing countries that succeeded in promoting industrialisation, sustained growth and development have all had in common developmental states that played a leading role in infrastructure development programmes which had an active industrial strategy. In this context it is correct that there has been renewed emphasis on the role that State-owned Enterprises, SOEs, must play in the developmental state, in that they must remain government-owned to play a vital role in economic growth, as stated in the Estimates of National Expenditure, 2007.

Given South Africa’s current challenges, the developmental state should maintain its strategic role in shaping the development of a number of key economic sectors, including through continued ownership of state-owned enterprises. These sectors include the energy, national transport and logistics system, where an ongoing strategic role is envisaged for Eskom and Transnet. We should consider the best means to enhance the strategic role of these and other public enterprises, utilities and agencies across all spheres of government.

The state thus intends to retain ownership of South African Airways as the national carrier with a strategic role to play in South Africa’s rapidly developing economy, which requires reliable and extensive air transport capacity. As has been said previously, there are no guarantees that the market would run SAA in a manner that would deliver on the developmental objectives and it is thus vital that SAA remains in state hands. In conclusion, when there are problems with state-owned enterprises, it is important that we look at the management of these state-owned enterprises and not at their ownership. The ANC supports the Vote.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 31 – Science and Technology – put and agreed to.

Vote No 32 – Trade and Industry – put.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 33 – Transport – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr S B FARROW: Chairperson, in my last two budget debate speeches, I reflected a more positive approach in the direction that the department was taking towards policy developments. My main concerns were the department’s inability to implement these plans, spend its budget efficiently, and finally monitor and evaluate its key programmes with a 40%-plus vacancy rate.

On many counts I’ve been proved right. The absolute debacle surrounding the implementation of eNatis migration is reminiscent of the same continued failure by the department to properly manage the credit-card format driver’s licence. Both these projects have concerns of alleged corrupt dealings involving Mr Schabir Shaik and his companies and the former Minister Mac Maharaj. Removing these associated companies from the credit card licence deal through a shuffling of shareholders will not resolve the matter as to how the contract was awarded in the first place.

I therefore reiterate my appeal to the Minister, as I did in my budget speech, for a full independent audit of the project from inception to implementation. The same could be said of the Tasima contract. Unless this is done, these two projects will continue to haunt the department for years to come.

The department’s budget has changed dramatically this year with the inclusion of added responsibilities towards transport-related and public transport systems, particularly with regard to bus rapid transit, commuter rail and taxi recapitalisation. These three developments are of great importance in ensuring a successful World Cup and the legacy that it leaves us.

However, the lack of capacity in the department to implement these projects timeously and efficiently is of concern. The monitoring of Gautrain with its massive expenditure over the next three years will require exceptional skills in the transfer of funds in accordance with the tender, its objectives and ultimate sustainability. Time will tell whether this stand- alone project will attract currently marginalised users and integrate public transport services, as the Minister continues to assure this House and the public at large.

Finally, I cannot but reiterate the need for more funds to maintain our roads. Safe access between our cities for the World Cup for those who are unable to afford air flights is essential. Under these circumstances, we will have to object to this Vote.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die departement sal hierdie jaar bekend staan as die departement van blapse. Die eerste blaps was die implementering van die eNatis-stelsel. Die tweede blaps was om die koerante te probeer verbied om die inhoud van die Ouditeur-generaal se verslag te publiseer. Die derde blaps was om die motoriste met ’n bykomende R30 te wil belas om vir hierdie blapse te betaal. Dit is totaal onaanvaarbaar. Die Minister is hierdie jaar die Minister van Blapse. Die VF Plus sal nie hierdie begrotingspos kan ondersteun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, this year the department will be known as the department of blunders. The first blunder was the implementation of the eNatis system. The second blunder was the attempt to ban the newspapers from publishing the Auditor-General’s report. The third blunder was an attempt to impose an additional tax of R30 on motorists to pay for these blunders. This is totally unacceptable. This year the Minister is the Minister of blunders. The FF Plus will not be able to support this Vote.] Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, I think it is important that we look at the big picture and not at the little picture. Three to four years ago we were spending some R6 billion a year on transport. By 2009-10, we’ll be spending R21,5 billion on transport. That’s wonderful news for millions of South Africans who frankly, at the moment, don’t have decent public transport, and I think we really need to support this budget. That trend reflects an annual 20% and more increase.

This is not accidental. The Minister of Transport and his department have lobbied hard and long to really place transport, and particularly public transport, at the centre of our developmental priorities. The Cabinet agreed in January this year that the number one legacy that we need to develop out of our 2010 hosting of the Fifa World Cup needs to be decent public transport in our country.

Yes, there are challenges and as we are beginning to try to spend this money, there are challenges of capacity and so on. As you may or may not know, Chairperson, the ANC is going to an important policy conference next week and we always debate amongst ourselves what the motive force of the national democratic revolution is. I am not sure how that debate will pan out next week but I think one thing that we are very clear about as the ANC is that the motive force of the motive force, however you define it, is safe, affordable and accessible public transport. That’s why the ANC supports this budget. [Applause.] Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).

Vote No 34 - Water Affairs and Forestry – put.

Declaration of vote:

Ms S N SIGCAU: Chairperson, though the UDM supports Budget Vote No 34, I would like to use this declaration and again appeal that urgent attention be given to a policy area.

Our country suffers from a severe scarcity of water. Research indicates that the country will become even drier. Furthermore, we have a growing population. Whilst urbanisation towards Gauteng and the coastal regions places an even larger burden on areas already suffering from a shortage of water, long-term planning is required to address this undeniable issue.

Even if all current conservation and development strategies are implemented to their fullest extent, we might still face severe water shortages in 10 years’ time. When those shortages occur, the price of water will rise until the poor can literally not afford water and the economy will be squeezed, as farms and factories cannot remain profitable with escalating water costs.

The department is not showing enough urgency in pursuing such alternatives. For instance, desalination of sea water is actively being researched and developed by numerous countries. Yet, South Africa remains a reluctant participant in this most obvious water resource solution. Thank you, Chairperson.

Vote agreed to.

Schedule put and agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

There was no debate.

Bill read a second time.

                ELECTRICITY REGULATION AMENDMENT BILL

(Consideration of Bill, as amended by NCOP, and of Report of Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy thereon)

There was no debate.

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move: That the Bill, as amended, be passed.

Motion agreed to.

Bill, as amended, accordingly passed.

                  STANDING OVER OF ORDER OF THE DAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:

That the fifth Order of the Day stands over.

Motion agreed to.

The House adjourned at 17:29. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        FRIDAY, 15 JUNE 2007

TABLINGS

National Assembly

1. The Speaker

(a)     A letter dated 17 May 2007 was received from the Minister of
     Communications, requesting the National Assembly to submit a short
     list of candidates to consider for appointment to the Council of
     the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa due to
     the resignation of Ms M Mohlala, in terms of section 7 of the
     Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Amendment
     Act, 2006 (Act No 3 of 2006).


      Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for
      consideration and report.

                        MONDAY, 18 JUNE 2007

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism

(1)     The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(3),
     classified the following Bills as section 75 Bills:


     (a)     Criminal Law (Sentencing) Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2007]
         (National Assembly – sec 75).
     (b)     Human Sciences Research Council Bill [B 16 - 2007]
         (National Assembly – sec 75).

(2)     The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(3) also classified the Human
     Sciences Research Council Bill [B 16 - 2007], introduced in the
     National Assembly, as a Bill falling within the ambit of section
     18(1)(a) of the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework
     Act, 2003 (Act No 41 of 2003).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

(a)     Convention between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Swiss Confederation for the Avoidance of Double
     Taxation with respect to Taxes on Income, tabled in terms of
     section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

(b)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention between the Government
     of the Republic of South Africa and the Swiss Confederation for
     the Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect to Taxes on Income.

(c)     Convention between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Government of the Portuguese Republic for the
     Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect to Taxes on Income,
     tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention between the Government
     of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
     Portuguese Republic for the Avoidance of Double Taxation with
     respect to Taxes on Income.

(e)     Convention between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for the
     Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect to Taxes on Income,
     tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

(f)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention between the Government
     of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom
     of Saudi Arabia for the Avoidance of Double Taxation with respect
     to Taxes on Income.

National Assembly

1. The Speaker

(a)     The President of the Republic submitted the following letter
     dated 13 June 2007 to the Speaker of the National Assembly
     informing Members of the Assembly of the employment of the South
     African National Defence Force within the Republic of South Africa
     during the National Public Service Strike:


     EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE FOR SERVICE
     IN CO-OPERATION WITH THE SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICE WITHIN THE
     REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA DURING THE NATIONAL PUBLIC SERVICE STRIKE
     This serves to inform the National Assembly that I have authorised
     the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)
     personnel, for service in co-operation with the South African
     Police Service, in the prevention and the combating of crime and
     the preservation of law and order within the Republic of South
     Africa during the Public Service strike.


     The labour unions, representing the Public Service sector,
     embarked on a nation wide strike from 01 June 2007. The present
     situation with regard to the strike has escalated to such an
     extent that it has resulted in violence and intimidation against
     members of the public service who are not participating in the
     strike.


     The employment of the SANDF members was authorised in accordance
     with the provisions of section 201(2)(a) of the Constitution of
     the Republic of South Africa, 1996, read with section 93 of the
     Defence Act, 2002 (Act No 42 of 2002).


     Approximately 35000 members of the SANDF are employed from 07 June
     2007 to assist the South African Police Service in preventing and
     combating crime and maintenance of law and order within the
     Republic of South Africa during the Public Service strike. The
     period of deployment will depend on the situation and on the
     duration of the strike.


     I will communicate this report to members of the National Council
     of Provinces and wish to request that you bring the contents
     hereof to the attention of the National Assembly.


     Regards


     signed


     THABO MBEKI


(b)     The President of the Republic submitted the following letter
     dated 13 June 2007 to the Speaker of the National Assembly
     informing Members of the Assembly of the employment of the South
     African National Defence Force in Uganda:


     EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE IN UGANDA
     FOR SERVICE IN FULFILMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS OF THE
     REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA TOWARDS THE UNION


     This serves to inform the National Assembly that I have authorised
     the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)
     personnel to Uganda, in fulfilment of the international
     obligations of the Republic of South Africa towards the African
     Union (AU), as part of the AU Mission in Northern Uganda.


     This employment was authorised in accordance with the provisions
     of section 201(2)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South
     Africa, 1996, read with section 93 of the Defence Act, 2002 (Act
     No 42 of 2002).


     A total of five SANDF members are employed from 01 June 2007 to 31
     March 2008 as military observers in the AU Mission in Northern
     Uganda.


     I will communicate this report to members of the National Council
     of Provinces and wish to request that you bring the contents
     hereof to the attention of the National Assembly.


     Regards


     signed


     THABO MBEKI

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - Insert T070618 – insert 2 PAGES 1291-1311

                        TUESDAY, 19 JUNE 2007

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bill submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(a)     Diamond Export Levy (Administration) Bill, 2007, submitted by
     the Minister of Finance. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance and the Select Committee on Finance.

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister of Finance


      (a)     Diamond Export Levy Bill [B 22 – 2007].


     Introduction in the National Assembly (proposed sec 77) and
     referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of the National
     Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 19 June 2007.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.
      (b)     Diamond Export Levy (Administration) Bill [B 23 – 2007].


     Introduction in the National Assembly (proposed sec 75) and
     referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of the National
     Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 19 June 2007.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

1. Referral of Bill to National House of Traditional Leaders The Secretary to Parliament has, on 19 June 2007, in accordance with section 18(1) of the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Act, 2003 (Act No 41 of 2003), referred the Human Sciences Research Council Bill [B 16 - 2007] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the National House of Traditional Leaders, which must, within 30 days from the date of this referral, make any comments it wishes to make.

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

(1)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Home Affairs for consideration:
     (a)     Employment Equity Report of the Department of Home Affairs
          for 2007-2008, in terms of section 21(2) of the Employment
          Equity Act, 1998 (Act No 55 of 1998).


(2)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Public Service and Administration for consideration:

     (a)     Report of the Public Service Commission (PSC) on Measuring
          the Effectiveness of the National Anti-Corruption Hotline
          (NACH), 2007 [RP 19-2007].

     (b)     Report of the Public Service Commission (PSC) on an Audit
          of Government’s Poverty Reduction Programmes and Projects –
          February 2007 [RP 11-2007].
(3)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Communications for consideration and report:

     (a)     Protocol on Policy and Regulatory Framework for NEPAD (New
          Partnership for Africa’s Development) ICT Broadband
          Infrastructure for Eastern and Southern Africa, tabled in
          terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Protocol on Policy and
          Regulatory Framework for NEPAD (New Partnership for Africa’s
          Development) ICT Broadband Infrastructure for Eastern and
          Southern Africa.

(4)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Environmental Affairs and Tourism:


     (a)     Government Notice No 396 published in Government Gazette
          No 29864 dated 4 May 2007: Intention to declare the Highveld
          Priority Area in terms of section 18(1) of the National
          Environmental Management: Air Quality Act, 2004 (Act No 39 of
          2004).

     (b)     Government Notice No 438 published in Government Gazette
          No 29887 dated 11 May 2007: Change of name: Greater St Lucia
          Wetland Park and Greater St Lucia Wetland Park Authority, in
          terms of the World Heritage Convention Act, 1999 (Act No 49 of
          1999).

1. Submission of Private Members’ Legislative Proposals (1) The following private members’ legislative proposals were submitted to the Speaker in accordance with Rule 234:

   (a) Proposal to repeal the Dutch Reformed Church Union Act, No 23 of 1911 (Mr P A Gerber)

   (b) Legislative proposal to repeal the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa Act, No 24 of 1961 (Mr P A Gerber)

   (c) Legislative proposal to repeal the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa Amendment Act, No 4 of 1970 (Mr P A Gerber)

   (d) Legislative proposal to repeal the Methodist Church of South Africa Act, No 111 of 1978 (Mr P A Gerber)

   (e) Legislative proposal to repeal the Bible Society of South Africa Act, No 15 of 1970 (Mr P A Gerber)

   (f) Legislative proposal to repeal the Bible Society of South Africa Amendment Act, No 97 of 1985 (Mr P A Gerber)

   In accordance with Rule 235 the legislative proposals have been referred to the Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions.

2. Bill passed by Houses– to be submitted to President for assent (1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 19 June 2007:

   (a) Electricity Regulation Bill [B 20D – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 76).