National Assembly - 13 September 2007
THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2007 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:03.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NEW MEMBER
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before we proceed with the business of the House, I have to announce that the vacancy caused by Ms F Batyi’s loss of seat with effect from 28 August 2007 has been filled by the nomination of Ms I E Jenner with effect from 11 September 2007. Ms Jenner made and subscribed the oath in the Speaker’s Office this morning.
We welcome the new member to the House. [Applause.]
MATHEMATICS WEEK
(Member’s Statement)
Adv A H GAUM (ANC): Deputy Speaker, Mathematics Week started on 3 September and ended on 7 September, 2007. Events were planned in some cities to showcase the subject, but unfortunately they went unnoticed by the media.
The aim of Mathematics Week was to showcase mathematics as a subject, thereby encouraging learners to take the subject in their curriculum. Mathematics is becoming more and more one of the pre-requisites for entrance at most tertiary institutions, not only for those who opt for natural sciences, but also for those who would like to pursue management and business studies as well. Among degrees that require mathematics are B. Admin, Business Management, Economics, Engineering, Medicine, etc.
It is therefore clear that the war on the skills deficit cannot be won unless schools do everything in their power to offer mathematics as part of their curriculum. We have become aware that while there are schools that do good work to promote the subject, there are those who, in the quest to raise the pass rate profiles in grade 12, deprive students of mathematics and track them to non-scarce skills subjects. This produces negative effects for both students and the development of the country.
I would like to take this opportunity to encourage all schools to offer mathematics as part of their curriculum. We would also like to urge educators who teach this subject to be patient with those learners who, through no fault of their own, are slow to grasp the noble subject called mathematics. Thank you. [Applause.]
RACIST REMARKS ABOUT WHITE FARMERS BY SENIOR MEMBERS OF ANC
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A H NEL (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, what happened here yesterday was a disgrace, and not worthy of this House. I say this because a senior member of the ANC stood up and made racist remarks about white farmers who assault their farmworkers; not some farmers, but all farmers.
If I had made the same general statement about black farmers, I would have been called a racist, asked to withdraw, and probably asked to leave the House. When I complained about the behaviour, the Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Land Affairs went further and threatened farmers who put farmworkers off their land with expropriation.
Legal retrenchments can be made by all businesses, but if farmers do that, they are threatened. What sort of message are these senior people in the ANC sending out to farmers who are overwhelmingly positive about land reform and about South Africa? What is also disturbing is that senior members on that side and even the presiding officers let this happen without any comment.
The responsibility to stop these biased and racist comments is the duty of especially the senior members of this House. Thank you. [Applause.]
CORRUPTION IN SAPS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr V B NDLOVU (IFP): The IFP believes that the time has come for a Jali Commission-type inquiry into allegations of corruption within the Police Service of South Africa. On a daily basis, we hear and read of numerous allegations of corruption, maladministration, nepotism, intimidation and other improper conduct within the metro police and SA Police Service.
The Independent Complaints Directorate, an independent mechanism established to ensure that policing in our country takes place within a human rights ethic and that those officers who do not uphold the rule of law are held accountable for their actions, is unfortunately not doing its job properly. The situation has become so extreme that we cannot turn a blind eye any longer.
We need to appoint an independent judicial commission of inquiry to try and investigate all allegations, and make comprehensive recommendations in this regard. Thank you.
RENOVATION OF HOUSES IN MSOBOMVU
(Member’s Statement)
Mnu S E ASIYA (ANC): Sekela-Somlomo, abantu abaphantsi kolawulo lukaMasipala waseMsobomvu benza umbulelo ongazenzisiyo kurhulumente kaNdlunkulu, owePhondo kunye nowezeKhaya, ngokuthabatha isigqibo sokuhlaziya ilokishi endala ebekukho kuyo izindlu othi xa ungaphakathi kuzo ujonge edongeni, ubone umntu ohamba ngaphandle. Ezi zindlu ziya kuba ngamawaka amabini ubuninzi. Le nto iza kubuyisa isidima sabantu kwaye ngethuba ezakhiwa ngalo kuya kuvuleka amathuba emisebenzi. Abanye baya kuzuza izakhono apho nekati isuke eziko.
Kwakweli phulo abantu baya kubandakanywa ekwakheni izindlu zabo ngokwabo. I- ANC inethemba nenkolelo yokuba inkqubo yebhunga ledolophu yokunika abakhi abachongiweyo iithenda ayizi kuyilibazisa inkqubo yolwakhiwo. Singulo mbutho wesizwe sinethemba lokuba noko ezi ziya kuba zizindlu ezicacileyo nezibonakalayo. Enkosi. [Laphela ixesha.] (Translation of isiXhosa member’s statement follows.)
[Mr S E ASIYA (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the people under the authority of the Municipality of Msobomvu extend their sincere gratitude to the national, provincial and local governments for taking the decision to renovate the old township where there were houses, where one could stand inside and see someone walking outside through the walls. There will be 2 000 houses. This will bring back the dignity of the people and, at the same time, open up job opportunities. Some will get skills and no longer live in poverty.
In the same project, people will be involved in building their own houses. The ANC hopes and believes that the programme of the town council to give selected builders tenders will not delay the housing project. This national organisation hopes that these will be proper and quality houses. Thank you. [Time expired.]]
EXECUTION OF PROTECTION ORDERS AND WATTANTS OF ARREST BY SAPS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S N SWART (ACDP): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ACDP is deeply concerned that police are failing to arrest abusive partners who violate court-issued protection orders in domestic violence cases, despite a High Court ruling that found that failure to do so amounted to negligence.
In this particular case, the police failed to protect a 50-year-old woman from her abusive ex-husband, despite a valid order, resulting in her being abused and raped. After a four-year battle, she succeeded with the civil action. Had the police done their job properly, she would have been spared the trauma of rape and abuse, and taxpayers would have been spared the considerable costs of a civil case.
When we passed the Domestic Violence Act, we hoped that this Act would provide protection to the most vulnerable of our society, our women and children, against abusive partners. It is therefore with considerable concern that the ACDP has learnt learns that there is a policy stating that despite a warrant of arrest being issued, police can only make an arrest when there are signs of imminent danger to a complainant. Why must most vulnerable women be made to suffer abusive partners who violate court orders and then, when seeking police assistance, be told to wait until their lives and those of their children are threatened by imminent danger.
In view of the high level of domestic violence and child abuse in our country, the ACDP calls on the SAPS and the Minister to ensure that protection orders and warrants of arrest are executed before imminent and life-threatening situations develop. I thank you.
FLOOR – CROSSING
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L W GREYLING (ID): Deputy Speaker, this is the second floor-crossing period of my short political career. I now understand why the public has so little respect for politicians. Our democracy has been reduced to a circus, and we must fix this.
The ANC has also revealed its true colours during this period. Our once- proud liberation movement is now willing to sacrifice its few remaining principles on the altar of power. Instead of firing Travelgate MPs, it takes on more! Instead of condemning the bribery and extortion of the NNP, it considers going into an alliance with them simply to remove a government that it doesn’t like. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon member!
Mr L W GREYLING: Then you have the protestations of the ANC National Chairperson, welcoming conservative members into its ranks, and calling them genuine patriots simply because they joined the ANC! Let me state today: I am a true patriot, and I don’t need to sit on that side of the House to prove it! [Applause.]
An unknown ANC source is reported as saying, ``Every politician has their price.’’ The ANC Western Cape Whip defends floor-crossing by blaming the electorate. Minister Lekota asked us on this side of the House to reflect on the usefulness of staying in political parties that can only criticise, and that the only positive way to expend energy is to get behind the majority in the ANC. This is the scant respect that the ANC shows towards multiparty democracy in our country!
I have reflected, and I can tell you that what our country needs most is principled leaders who are willing to stand by their voters, rather than abandon them for personal gain. The ANC should also be warned that your abandoning of principles will eventually lead to the voters abandoning you! Thank you. [Applause.]
COMMUNITIES’ RESPONSE TO CRIME
(Member’s Statement)
Dr G W KOORNHOF (ANC): Deputy Speaker, hon members, the ANC believes that our response to crime must be based on a clear understanding of the causes of crime and the various forms that it takes across society. Our response needs to be well-considered, effectively co-ordinated and comprehensive. More importantly, it needs to be sustainable and its progress measurable.
All our people are concerned about the scourge of drug abuse. However, the war against drugs must not be fought in a manner that exposes communities to attacks by heartless drug dealers. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! We are not going to allow that. [Interjections.]
Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: On a point of order, may I ask: Are we being forbidden from heckling? Is that forbidden in the House?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are forbidden … [Interjections.]
Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: I’m sorry; I can’t hear because of the noise on my left.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I want to appeal to you, hon member, that in terms of the Rules that support you to do anything that you want to do within your responsibility as a member of this House. I am not going to allow you not to respect the Chair. If that is the attitude you want to display today, we can deal with it. For now allow me to do what I am supposed to do. Is that clear? [Applause.]
Dr G W KOORNHOF: We have acknowledged that the Police Service and other government agencies cannot fight crime alone and that it requires the involvement and active participation of all communities and all sectors of society to meet this challenge.
The ANC calls on all members of our communities to make every possible effort to decisively tackle the challenge of crime, drawing on the resources and capacity of all sectors of society in a united front against crime. Thank you. [Applause.]
VIOLENT BEHAVIOUR AT OUR SCHOOLS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L M GREEN (FD): Deputy Speaker, imagine a scenario where innocent children come to school fearing that they may become the latest victims of ruthless learner behaviour at that school. Learning cannot take place as children fear harm on a daily basis.
Imagine further a more dreadful scenario where such children decide that since nothing is being done to quell the violence at school, they too have to adopt the patterns of violence as a form of protection, and therefore violence at schools escalates and the cycle continues. These are not imaginary scenarios but real occurrences at our schools.
On the other hand teachers are caught in the cycle of violence and as school disciplinary measures have failed to make a difference, the learning environment is left to deteriorate into war zones, which ultimately lead to teacher absenteeism with negative consequences for children.
As a result of the violent crimes at our schools teachers and parents are beginning to wonder whether the banning of corporal punishment is really a wise policy move. Given the trauma of violence inflicted on teachers and innocent school children and that the current disciplinary measures do not provide adequate protection, there can be very little argument against the effectiveness of corporal punishment to instil discipline in learning.
The FD calls on the Minister of Education and the department to review the policy of the banning of corporal punishment at our schools. Thank you.
RACIST PROCUREMENT PROCESS IN TSHWANE
(Member’s Statement)
Dr S M VAN DYK (DA): The ANC-controlled Tshwane Metro Council has enacted a racist procurement process that is an affront to our hard-won democratic freedoms. According to the contents of a lead report from the Tshwane City Manager, an instruction has been issued that the council may no longer procure goods and services from so-called white-owned firms.
This form of exclusionary discrimination is not only entirely unconstitutional but also flies in the face of guidelines from the National Treasury, which states that no procurement procedure can exclude certain categories of bidders. This is a form of naked racism introduced by the ANC. It cannot be tolerated and the citizens of Pretoria can rest assured that we as the DA will use all available avenues to fight this matter. Thank you.
COMMEMORATION OF 30TH ANNIVERSARY OF DEATH OF STEVE BIKO
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs L S CHIKUNGA (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ANC would like to join hands in commemorating the 30th anniversary of the death of Bantu Steve Biko. Steve Biko was a noted anti-apartheid activist in South Africa in the 1960s and early 1970s. He was a student leader who espoused the perspectives of the Black Consciousness Movement.
While still alive, his writings and activism enriched our culture of thought. He coined the slogan “black is beautiful” which he described as meaning “you are ok as you are, begin to look upon yourself as a human being.”
Steve Biko will always be remembered for his long-standing fight against inequality, discrimination and oppression. Long live, the spirit of Bantu Steve Biko! [Applause.]
BRUTAL KILLING OF FOUR WOMEN IN KWAZULU-NATAL
(Member’s Statement)
Mr H J BEKKER (IFP): Madam Deputy Speaker, the IFP notes with shock and horror the brutal killing of four women aged between 18 and 36 years in the KwaZulu-Natal area. Three bodies were discovered last week and the fourth body was discovered on Wednesday. All four were badly decomposed. Worst of all, one of the bodies found had been decapitated and the head was missing. The head was later recovered when a dog wandered through Shayamoya with a head in its mouth.
The IFP recommends that thorough investigations be undertaken and if these actions of this serial killer can be pinned to a person, that person should be removed from society immediately and be given a sentence befitting this crime. Thank you.
BRAVERY OF MR ZONKE AND OTHERS ON FIRE TEAMS DURING VELD FIRES
(Member’s Statement)
Ms C C SEPTEMBER (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC is aware that many parts of South Africa have experienced veld fires that have been described as the worst our country has experienced since the 1990s. The fires caused great suffering to the people in the affected areas. The teams organised by the Working on Fire Programme performed sterling work to help fight these fires. A case in point is what took place in the Ceylon plantation in Sabie in Mpumalanga. A team that was part of the Working on Fire Programme was preparing to leave an area which had become dangerous owing to changes in wind speed and intensity. When the team head count was done it was discovered that three workers were missing. After dropping the others at a place of safety, two members of the team and a brave farmworker went back to try and locate and save the missing workers. After 15 minutes they managed to locate and rescue them. As they were moving out of the danger area one of the workers panicked and jumped out of the bakkie. Mr Zonke jumped out of the vehicle, ran after her and brought her back. The ANC commends the extraordinary bravery displayed by Mr Zonke and, indeed, the continuous commitment of the working on fire teams. Thank you.
COMPLAINT AGAINST CHAIRPERSON OF COMMISSION FOR EMPLOYMENT EQUITY
(Member’s Statement)
Me A M DREYER (DA): Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, die DA het vanoggend ’n klag by die Openbare Beskermer teen die voorsitter van die Kommissie vir Billike Indiensneming, Jimmy Manyi, ingedien. Volgens die wet oor billike indiensneming stel die Minister van Arbeid hierdie persoon aan om hom te adviseer oor beleidsake. Hiervolgens is Manyi wetlik verplig om onpartydig op te tree en nie by aktiwiteite betrokke te raak wat die integriteit van die kommissie ondermyn nie. Die DA meen dat Manyi die kommissie se integriteit reeds in gedrang gebring het deur sy partydige uitsprake en verder ook deur sy deelname aan en bevordering van ander belangegroepe wat in konflik met die kommissie is. Manyi se openbare uitsprake is rassisties en verdelend van aard. Hy stel wit teenoor swart, mans teenoor vroue en nou ook vrou teenoor vrou.
Die laaste strooi is Manyi se verslag wat hy by die Parlement ingedien het om beleidmaking te beïnvloed. Hierdie verslag berus op onvolledige opnames en wemel van feitelike foute. [Tussenwerpsels.] Manyi erken dit self in sy verslag. Onafhanklike oudits bevestig dat geen waarde aan Manyi se verslag geheg kan word nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die Parlement durf nie so ’n verslag gebruik om hulle beleid te beïnvloed nie, en Manyi self behoort die reg te verloor om in so ’n belangrike liggaam te dien. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Ms A M DREYER (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, this morning the DA lodged a complaint with the Public Protector against the chairperson of the Commission for Employment Equity, Jimmy Manyi. In terms of the Employment Equity Act, the Minister of Labour appoints this person to advise him on policy matters. According to this, Manyi is legally bound to act impartially and not become involved in activities that undermine the integrity of the commission.
The DA is of the opinion that Manyi has already jeopardised the commission’s integrity with his biased opinions as well as his participation in and promotion of other interest groups that are in conflict with the commission. Manyi’s public statements are racist and discordant. He sets white up against black, men against women and now woman against woman as well.
The last straw was Manyi’s report that he submitted to Parliament to influence policy-making. This report relies on incomplete surveys and bristles with factual mistakes. [Interjections.] Manyi himself acknowledges this in his report. Independent audits confirm that no value can be attached to Manyi’s report. [Interjections.] Parliament daren’t use such a report to influence its policy, and Manyi himself should lose the right to serve on such an important body.]
IMPROVEMENT OF LIVES OF RURAL COMMUNITIES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S HUANG (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the Department of Public Works is improving the lives of the rural communities. I want to congratulate the department on its good relationship with the People’s Republic of China, which led to the initiative that benefited institutions like the Magoshi Primary School in Limpopo through the intervention of Deputy Minister Ntopile Kganyago who, accompanied by a representative of the Chinese Embassy, Mr Zhou Yxiao, handed ten computers and printers to Mr Malose Manamela, the principal of Magoshi Primary School. These computers, which were described by many speakers as resources for skills development in the area, were received with great excitement by the community.
The Extended Public Works Programme has exceeded its gross job creation target of 130 000 jobs. Over the year, more than 220 000 jobs were created.
The department has completed the R4,3 million Inkosi Albert Luthuli Legacy Project in KwaZulu-Natal and handed it over to the Department of Arts and Culture.
In the Western Cape, the R103 million refurbishment project of 90 Plein Street for the use of Parliament was completed and delivered on schedule.
Thank you. [Applause.]
STATUS OF WTO DOHA ROUND NEGOTIATIONS IN TROUBLE
(Member’s Statement)
Prof B TUROK: Madam Deputy Speaker, the current World Trade Organization’s Doha Round negotiations are in danger of collapse. The US and the EU are once again demonstrating their self-serving approach, ignoring the inequity of world trade. They are subsidising agriculture so that their products are sold world-wide below cost, thereby undermining African agricultural exports. African governments have been prohibited from subsidising their own agriculture by the IMF and the World Bank, and this is grossly unfair.
The US and the EU want access to African markets for their services and manufactured goods and want us to lower tariffs still further. This will lead to the further destruction of Africa’s industries and services.
We call upon our government to resist these efforts and to mobilise public opinion in support of fair trade, not free trade, globally. Parliament should also play an important role in pressing for a new and fair world order in trade which will allow developing countries to grow their economies.
Thank you. [Applause.]
FLOOR-CROSSING
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps hon member Greyling should remember that his leader, the hon Patricia de Lille, is an original floor-crosser. [Applause.] And we accepted her bona fides when she formed her own party. I think it would be good in this House if we accepted the bona fides of members who have crossed the floor.
I know that the DA were also applauding most vociferously, but they actually were among the biggest beneficiaries of the first floor-crossing that led to the demise of a political party. So, let’s accept that members who have crossed the floor have done so because they wanted to do so and have good reasons for doing so. Let’s not impute unnecessary characteristics to that.
Secondly, it would help Mr Greyling if he didn’t shout, because then he wouldn’t be out of breath when he sits down. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
MATHEMATICS RACIST REMARKS ABOUT WHITE FARMERS CORRUPTION IN SAPS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, I notice the hon Greyling is walking out rather than crossing the floor. [Laughter.]
I thank the hon member of the ANC for having raised the matter of maths and the need for our society to really encourage young people to take up mathematics as a subject of study and also, of course, our teachers to ensure good academic rigour in the content understanding of the subject and its teaching. So, we certainly would endorse this view that has emerged and would say the steps we are taking both to ensure that we have qualified teachers in schools as well as to expand the schools that focus on mathematics and science in the country – the Dinaledi Schools – are all part of supporting this initiative to increase mathematics success in South Africa.
I would like, very briefly, to say that I did not notice any racism on the part of a member of the ANC yesterday and I am a little surprised at that comment, especially when the hon member was interpreted in his follow-up question as having said the hon Deputy Minister was speaking nonsense. It might have been a misinterpretation by the interpreter but I thought that language in itself would have been classed as unparliamentary. But to say that there are farmers who evict workers, and that the majority of those farmers who evict farmworkers are of a particular race group in our country is not to be racist; it is stating what happens in South Africa.
I think we need to be alert to that fact and as members of this House who have passed legislation which seeks to protect farmworkers, who are the most vulnerable in our society, whatever party we come from we should seek to protect those vulnerable people. It doesn’t matter whether we are ANC, DA, IFP, if there is a farmworker who has been exploited or abused by any farmer, it is our duty, whatever their colour, to ensure that that farmworker is protected. That is what we should all be standing up and saying in this House. [Applause.]
I think on the matter of crime, certainly the SA Police Service should from time to time be commended from this House. It is our community and the population and the criminals out there that we should criticise. The police services are stretched at ensuring they investigate crime and that they resolve crime and if there is corruption it will be dealt with. But let us not read the story and then assume that the story is actually true.
One of the things Parliament and its members have to promote is the issue of the exercise of the due processes of the law. We seem to read the story and assume guilt before we allow the due processes to be concluded. I think it’s very important that we absolutely send out a message that we do reject and stand against corruption and act against it in this House but also that when there is an accusation a person must be, as the law says, presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise. So, the assumption of guilt when it is public officials is something that I do think we should object to.
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
COMPLAINT AGAINST CHAIRPERSON OF COMMISSION FOR EMPLOYMENT EQUITY
(Member’s Statement)
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to say to the House that the hon member Dreyer should be aware that the Employment Equity Act is the law of this House, passed by this House, and that if she reads it she will realise that it provides that women are a designated group - all women. The ANC, which is the majority party in this House, has not changed from this position. I am a member of the ANC, a disciplined and very loyal one for that matter.
Jimmy Manyi is the Chairperson of the Commission for Employment Equity. Jimmy Manyi was expressing the views of that commission, which is completely independent and autonomous. He has a right to express his views as a South African, for he is allowed by the Constitution to do so. He also has a right to be a chairperson of the Commission for Employment Equity and I have absolutely no qualms about that.
However, any member of the ANC knows and understands how policies are developed in the ANC. We have just returned from the policy conference and we are now moving to the national conference of the ANC in December. So, anyone who has a view that he wants to express, who wants the ANC to change its policy, should please participate in the processes. They can do so in the branches of the ANC, in the regional conferences of the ANC or they can approach any ANC member if they want us to change those policies. Members are also welcome to cross the floor so that in December we allow them to participate in our conference. The media does not develop policies for the ANC. [Applause.]
BRAVERY OF MR ZONKE AND OTHERS ON FIRE TEAMS DURING VELD FIRES
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to join the hon member Connie September in commending the extraordinary bravery of Mr Zonke, who definitely saved his colleagues from certain death.
We all know that this country has experienced the worst fires that we have experienced in the past 20-30 years. Just between May and September this year my department, through the Working on Fire Programme, attended to 240 fires. The impact of the fires on forestry and commercial agricultural plantations has been estimated as high as 100 000 hectares, with forestry indicating that 64 000 hectares of commercial forests have been burnt.
Soon after these fires started, Minister Mufamadi, myself, the provincial representatives and the municipalities of the affected areas visited some of the worst hit areas. What we saw there was total devastation, really caused by a situation of very dry weather conditions, where the grass, the trees and everything was so dry that the intensity was something that had never been seen before. We visited many of the victims that were affected to ascertain the damage.
What this House must be aware of is that if it was not for the bravery and the efforts not only of the Working on Fire firefighters but also of the local firefighters, the local fire brigades and the owners of properties that were on fire, the situation would have been much, much worse. Our firefighters have put their lives at risk and several of them were injured. Some of them died during this period. What is clear is that we owe them dearly for the manner in which they risked their lives to save the lives and property of others and just the professionalism displayed as they were fighting fires.
People died during this incident. Hectares of grazing land and livestock were burnt, environmental damage, soil erosion and a whole lot of other things were caused. Sawmills burnt down, which will have a major impact on the availability of timber in the country as we move towards construction.
What I would like to do today is to congratulate all of those who were involved but also, on behalf of the government and my department, to extend our condolences to those who lost their loved ones and to wish those who are still in hospital a speedy recovery. Having just come to the end of Women’s Month, I think it is worth noting that this programme I am talking about – Working on Fire – with 28% of its firefighters being women, has the highest proportion of female firefighters of any known formal fire-fighting capacity in the world. [Applause.] It’s over three times the number of women, for example, that are in the structural fire–fighting teams in the USA and we are working towards increasing this number so that it is in line with our national targets.
I thank you. [Applause.]
NOTICE OF MOTION
Ms J A SEMPLE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion:
That this House calls for a debate as soon as possible on the Domestic Violence Act, specifically with regard to the failure of the SAPS to properly execute protection orders, which results in further domestic violence. The reasons for these failures need to be fully explored and proper steps must be taken to identify areas for improvement in the SAPS’ training and supervision, and the consistent application of the Act across all provinces as well as any other possible factors that may lead to the improper implementation of the Domestic Violence Act.
MUSLIM, HINDU AND JEWISH RELIGIOUS CELEBRATIONS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S V KALYAN: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes that - (a) this weekend sees the beginning of a very auspicious period in the Hindu, Muslim and Jewish calendars;
(b) Muslims worldwide began the month of Ramadan today upon
the sighting of the new moon last night;
(c) Hindus commence the Purtassi and Pithar Paksh Fast; and
(d) members of the Jewish faith observe Rosh Hoshanah;
2) further notes that it is a period of introspection, discipline and
abstinence from worldly pleasures; and
3) wishes all Muslims, Hindus and Jews well over this auspicious
period. Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS -
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR APPOINTMENT TO SABC BOARD
Mr G G OLIPHANT: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, members, colleagues, comrades and our guests, during April 2007 the Portfolio Committee on Communications undertook an oversight visit to the Gauteng province and met with, amongst others, the SA Broadcasting Corporation Board.
A matter that came out of our engagement with the board was the realisation that their term of office is coming to an end at the end of the year; hence the need to have a new board in place from the beginning of 2008. The new board will be approved for a period not exceeding five years as provided for in the Broadcasting Act.
We further discussed and agreed with the current board members that they would have a hand-over plan in place two to three months before the end of this year. The new chairperson, Comrade Ishmael Vadi, and the Portfolio Committee on Communications will need to followup on this matter as soon as possible to ensure a smooth transition at that level.
Amongst the names recommended for the portfolio committee process are six current members, which is 50% retention for continuity, and six brand new brooms – to proverbially sweep cleaner than the old. The SABC is a key strategic asset for any country, especially for a young democracy like ours.
I wish to thank the South African public for their enthusiastic participation in the process, and in particular for nominating excellent candidates for Parliament to choose from. We were not short of options and we did not have difficulty in putting together a list of skills, expertise, experience and qualifications for the short-listing.
It was in June this year – just to remind members - that Parliament referred the nomination process to the portfolio committee to deal with. I must thank members from all parties, who participated in this process, for their dedication and commitment throughout this process.
As is the norm in our political life, we did not necessarily agree on everything, for example, a few names included in the final list. We do, however, agree that this process was open and transparent, fair and credible, and that the committee had sufficient, if not absolute, consensus on the majority of candidates recommended for approval by Parliament.
The President is charged with the responsibility to appoint the 12 nonexecutive members of the SABC following the parliamentary process. Amongst the names recommended, the President will appoint the chairperson and the deputy chairperson, in line with the provisions of the Broadcasting Act.
Let me also point out that after the advertisement was placed in the national papers in June, and even before the closing date, the committee was approached for an extension to the closing date by the Freedom of Expression Institute and the SA Council of Churches. These requests were granted and the outcome was indeed impressive.
We then received 143 nominations, and after a rigorous process of short- listing, the portfolio committee agreed to interview 37 candidates. Two amongst this 37 withdrew their candidacy.
We therefore table the outcome to Parliament for consideration and approval and wish to thank all the candidates who participated in the interviews, the print and electronic media for keeping the South African public informed throughout this process, the committee staff comprising of Ms Rita Schaafsma, Tyhileka Madubela, John Rossouw and Nwabisa Mbelekane, the chairperson’s secretary, Nina Pasensie, assistant to the ANC Whippery, Cathy Grosch, and researcher, Soraya Booley.
Let me finally express my heartfelt appreciation to my comrades and colleagues in the ANC, as well as hon Dene Smuts, who is the longest serving member of this committee, Adv Swart of the DA and the hon Sue Vos of the IFP for their co-operation, support, commitment and dedication throughout this elaborate process.
To the new chairperson, Comrade Vadi, you are invited to lead an excellent team across all parties; with some adjustments on the ANC. Hon Randy Pieterse is the longest serving ANC member of this committee. [Applause.] You also have the stalwart, Mme Storie Morutoa, who is an excellent person to have in this committee … [Applause.] … the young lion, Comrade Eric Kholwane, the ever composed Mme Nkuna, the combat-ready Lumka Yengeni… [Applause.] [Laughter.] … and the rural scientist, Sam Nxumalo.
I also wish to congratulate Comrade Reuben Mohlaloga and Khotso Khumalo on their appointments as chair and Whippery respectively. As for me, aluta continua!
Ms M SMUTS: To the hon Godfrey Oliphant, we bid you a fond farewell. We do so with a little bit of jealousy since you are now going to be dealing with a square kilometre array in science and technology.
Chair, we have seen and heard some of South Africa’s best and brightest during the interviews for the new SABC Board. We like our outgoing chairman. We would like to thank all the individuals in our organisations who rose to the crisis and the challenge and who nominated these candidates, and we thank the candidates also.
The great majority of the candidates put before the House today are such people – our best and brightest. What is more, we believe that if our ANC portfolio committee colleagues had had a free hand, all of the nominees would have been such people. But there is an elephant in the room. This “olifant” is now leaving the room. But my hon colleagues, there is an elephant in the room and it is no good pretending that it isn’t.
That elephant is not only Mr Smuts Ngonyama’s Elephant Consortium which bought itself a sizeable slice of the Telkom pie a few years ago. The extraordinary Gloria Tomatoe Serobe, who is nominated today, is herself a driving force in the Elephant Consortium. Now, she no longer has the direct conflict of interest between Telkom and the SABC on which we questioned her because the SABC and Sentech, as of a day or two ago, withdrew from the race for a subscription TV licence. But other conflicts exist around such issues as “must-carry” rules.
We must point out that Ms Serobe herself, in an elegant and rather detached interview, made it clear that she didn’t really mind whether we appointed her or not - she sits on a whole lot of boards. We think that somebody, some place, did care very much whether she was appointed or not, and that place is Luthuli House – it’s the only possible explanation.
But the big elephant in the room is the sitting Deputy Chair of the SABC Board, Ms Christine Qunta. She is the long-standing Africanist associate of our sitting President – she is not even a member of the ANC as some of my colleagues had not known. We cannot support her because we have never supported the racial prism through which she views all criticism – criticism of the President, criticism of allegations of corruption against black South Africans covered in the general media and now, upon our questioning, all criticism of the SABC.
This trend was confirmed - her thinking has not changed - during her two- hour interview with us when she averred that criticism of the SABC covered by the so-called commercial media had a racial bias. In addition, she confirmed, on our questioning, her confidence in the man we are convinced is the source of much of the trouble at the SABC - the news head, Mr Snuki Zikalala.
This is a better board, and I hope that the excellent editorial staff at the SABC, so embattled, will draw some courage. But to include Ms Christine Qunta in it, denies the crisis at the SABC. It is our fear that the hon sitting President will now appoint her as the chairperson. By doing so, he will perpetuate some of the crisis. We therefore oppose this list today. [Applause.]
Ms S C VOS: Deputy Speaker, the IFP will record its objection to the appointment of this highly contentious and politically biased board for many reasons. While we could fully support seven candidates in all - whether they were clearly ANC-aligned or not was irrelevant to the IFP - given their various fields of expertise, the entire package of 12 put together by the ANC tells a story of toxic and cynical political manipulation.
Numerous outstanding candidates who, in a balanced collective, could have contributed greatly in promoting confidence in the public broadcaster by ensuring independent journalistic excellence, good governance, integrity and a total commitment to local talent and local television and radio production, were rejected outright. The ANC would not allow opposition parties to negotiate alternatives to their decision in any way whatsoever.
I can tell there was no ubuntu in that committee at all. This was a final list cast in stone, which obviously descended on the committee from above and beyond this House – and I see you smiling, Comrade Pahad. There was no ubuntu in the portfolio committee.
An SABC Board weighted with the right stuff and political muscle was clearly required by those with power in the ANC to meet the needs of the forthcoming Polokwane process and the 2009 general elections. It is nothing short of tragic that candidates worthy of selection, who overwhelmingly impressed the entire committee during the interview process, were so ruthlessly ignored.
The public put their confidence in us by submitting the names of more than 140 candidates. Like the Curate’s egg, this board is good in parts and bad in parts. But in its totality, it may well prove to be a disaster and clearly time will tell. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the SABC has lurched from crisis to crisis, ranging from political blacklisting to the PSL broadcasting debacle and now the dispute with the SA National Editors’ Forum - Sanef. Whilst the public broadcaster can and should raise legitimate concerns regarding perceived declining standards of journalism, for the group CEO to label certain editors as “enemies of the state” is irresponsible and totally unacceptable. The very real danger of the statement is that it sets up a justification for those eager to restrict the media.
Regrettably, the very board that should have held the CEO accountable failed to do so. The question that arises is whether the newly proposed board will adopt a different approach. Regrettably, many of the existing board members will be retained, and therefore the ACDP cannot support these nominations. I thank you.
Dr P W A MULDER: Agb Adjunkspeaker, die VF Plus glo dat die SABC op die oomblik in ’n baie kritieke stadium is in sy ontwikkeling en dat dit uiters belangrik is dat dit ’n geloofwaardige raad kry om hom deur hierdie stadium te loods. Hierdie raad sal byvoorbeeld duideliheid moet gee oor die praktiese implikasies van die verhouding tussen die organisasie se openbare funksie en sy kommersiële funksie, waarmee ons nog altyd worstel om dit te balanseer.
In die tweede plek glo ons dat die SABC se geloofwaardigheid as nuusinstelling, veral as openbare instelling, in die gedrang is en dat daar ál meer kritiek uitgespreek word dat die instelling slegs ’n propagandaspreekbuis vir die regering word. Hierdie raad sal moet bewys dat hy dit kan omkeer.
Sedert 1994 was ek elke keer volledig deel van die aanstellingsprosedure. Dit was ’n opwindende prosedure wat geëindig het met ’n gee-en-neem proses waar ons dan onderhandel het. Mnr Fritz Kok is byvoorbeeld só in die raad aangestel as Afrikaanssprekende.
Ek kon egter, vanweë my leiersverantwoordelikhede, nie hierdie keer volledig deelneem nie, wat my in ’n slegte posisie plaas, want dis nie billik om gedeeltelik deel te neem nie. ’n Mens moet volledig deelneem en ek was dus nie volledig daar nie, maar dit lyk my dieselfde proses is gevolg, waar daar van bo af name deurgegee is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, the FF Plus believes that the SABC is presently in a very critical stage of its development and that it is crucial that it is given a board that has credibility in order to steer it through this phase. This board should, for instance, give clarity regarding the practical implications of the relationship between the organisation’s public and commercial functions, which we have always been battling to balance.
Secondly, we believe that the credibility of the SABC as a news institution, especially as a public broadcaster, is at stake and that more and more criticism is being levelled at the institution as merely being a propaganda mouthpiece for the government. This board will have to demonstrate that they can turn this around.
Since 1994, I have been part of the appointment procedure in its entirety every time. It was an exciting procedure which ended in a give and take process during which we then negotiated. Mr Fritz Kok, for example, was appointed to the board in this manner as an Afrikaans-speaking member.
However, because of my responsibilities as a leader, I could not fully participate this time, and this has placed me in a poor position as it is not fair to be partly involved. One should participate fully and I was unable to be fully involved, but it seems to me that the same process was followed, where names were handed down from above.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!
Dr P W A MULDER: Dis vir die VF Plus uiteindelik onaanvaarbaar en ons gaan ook teen hierdie ding stem. [Tyd verstreke.] [Ultimately, this is unacceptable to the FF Plus and we will accordingly vote against it.[Time expired.]]
Ms S RAJBALLY: The MF takes this opportunity to wish all the nominated candidates well in the posts they have been granted. May you serve in the corporation with composure and with our South African principles and values, as enshrined in our national Constitution.
It appears that the appointments to these posts has been conducted freely and fairly by the department. We are especially pleased to see the balance in the gender and racial divide being exemplified in these nominations. We have confidence in the department’s apt and efficient selection of the candidates. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Speaker, the previous political dispensation’s propaganda and misinformation helped shape the collective intelligence of the nation of that era which contributed to much racial hatred and violence. We have a new political dispensation, and it will be the grossest injustice if no lessons have been learned from the past, and the SABC allows itself to become a political tool of any government.
We cannot judge the performance of the new board before they have actually engaged in the steering of the public broadcasting corporation. They are all very qualified individuals who will bring to the SABC the skills and management prowess required for a developmental state, yet being keenly aware of the global interest of this country.
The FD therefore congratulates those members who were nominated to serve on the next SABC Board. We will support the list. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That Ms N Bulbulia, Ms A Gilwald, Mr D K Golding, Mr B Khumalo, Ms F Lagadien, Mr A Mbeki, Ms K Mkhonza, Ms C Qunta, Ms G T Serobe, Adv P Tlakula, Mr A Trikamjee and Mr B P Vundla be recommended for appointment as non-executive members of the SABC Board.
Division demanded.
The House divided:
AYES - 184: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Anthony, T G; Asiya, S E; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Beukman, F; Bloem, D V; Botha, N G W; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chalmers, J; Chauke, H P; Chohan, F ; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Dambuza, B N; Diale, L N; Dikgacwi, M M; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Fihla, N B; Gaum, A H; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Gogotya, N J; Gololo, C L; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gumede, M M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A ; Hendricks, L B; Hlangwana, N; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, C B; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kekana, C D; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khunou, N P; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Lekgetho, G; Lishivha, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahlawe, N M; Mahote, S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Maloney, L; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashangoane, P R; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N F; Matlala, M H; Matsemela, M L; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbili, M E; Mbombo, N D; Mdladlana, M M S; Meruti, M V; Mfundisi, I S; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mlambo-Ngcuka, P G; Mlangeni, A; Mnguni, B A; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogale, O M; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mokoena, A D; Mokoto, N R; Moloto, K A; Moonsamy, K; Morobi, D M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, L N; Moss, M I; Motubatse-Hounkpatin, S D; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mtshali, E; Mzondeki, M J G; Nawa, Z N; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, M J ; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngculu, L V J; Ngwenya, M L; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Njobe, M A A; Nkuna, C; Nogumla, R Z; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Padayachie, R L; Pahad, A G H; Pahad, E G; Pandor, G N M; Phadagi, M G; Phala, M J; Phungula, J P; Pieterse, R D; Pule, B E; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Schippers, J; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Sefularo, M; Sekgobela, P S; Sibande, M P; Sibanyoni, J B; Siboza, S ; Skhosana, W M; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonto, M R; Sotyu, M M; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tsenoli, S L; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Turok, B; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van Wyk, A; Vundisa, S S; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 40: Blanché, J P I; Botha, C-S; Camerer, S M; Chang, E S; Cupido, H B ; Davidson, I O; Dreyer, A M; Gibson, D H M; Groenewald, P J; Julies, I F; Kalyan, S V; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Mars, I; Masango, S J; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, C P; Mulder, P W A; Ndlovu, V B; Nel, A H; Rabie, P J; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Semple, J A; Seremane, W J; Sibuyana, M W; Singh, N; Skosana, M B; Smuts, M; Swart, S N; Trent, E W; Van der Merwe, J H; Van Dyk, S M; Vos, S C; Waters, M; Weber, H; Woods, G G.
ABSTAIN - 2: Fubbs, J L; Hogan, B A.
Question accordingly agreed to.
ASTRONOMY GEOGRAPHIC ADVANTAGE BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, the purpose of the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill is to provide for the preservation and protection of areas within the Republic that are uniquely suited for optical and radio-astronomy.
The objects of the AGA Bill are to provide measures to advance astronomy and related scientific endeavours in the Republic, develop the skills, capabilities and expertise of those engaged in astronomy and related scientific endeavours in Southern Africa, identify and protect areas in which astronomy projects of national strategic importance can be undertaken, provide a framework for the establishment of a national system of astronomy advantage areas in the Republic, ensure that the geographic areas in the Republic which are highly suitable for astronomy and related scientific endeavours due to, for example, high atmospheric transparency, low levels of flight pollution, low population density or minimal radio frequency interference, are protected, preserved and properly maintained, regulate activities which cause or could cause light pollution or radio frequency interference or interfere in any other way with astronomy and related scientific endeavours in those areas, provide for the declaration and management of astronomy advantage areas and enable the Minister to participate in efforts to preserve the astronomy advantage of Southern Africa and co-ordinate astronomy within this area.
Towards the end of 2005, the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill was approved for consultation by Cabinet. Subsequent to this approval, extensive consultations were conducted with governments departments, public sector entities, national operators including role-players in telecommunications and broadcasting and other identified key entities.
The overall consultation process included meetings with municipalities and communities that are going to be directly impacted by the AGA Bill. To ensure continuation of consultations with a wide array of interested parties, my department has established a stakeholder forum and a Regulation Advisory Committee.
The following are some of the benefits that could be derived through the implementation of such a Bill: Firstly, to protect large-scale global investments already made in astronomy; secondly, to preserve an environment for a global astronomy hub that will continue to attract international investments; and thirdly, to provide a competitive advantage for South Africa to become the preferred host of the full Square Kilometre Array.
Indirectly, the declaration of astronomy advantage areas, which will preserve suitable astronomy observation sites, will have an impact on the following: The development of the human capital in astronomy and related areas in science, technology, engineering and innovation; and the laying out of the relevant infrastructure nationally with concentrated efforts in the Northern Cape.
Finally, it is worth noting that the astronomy facilities are best located in very low population density areas to minimise their impact on South Africans and to maintain low interference to the telescopes by human activities.
Southern Africa has made significant strides in participating meaningfully in large-scale astronomy projects. These include the South African Large Telescope in Sutherland, the High Energy Stereoscopic System in Namibia and the current initiatives to host the Square Kilometre Array.
I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to Deputy Minister Derek Hanekom, the portfolio committee that is led by the outgoing chairperson hon N Ngcobo, Director-General Dr Mjwara, the management team and the staff of the department for working as a collective in the drafting and consultative process of this Bill. I now commend the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill to the House and request approval thereof. I thank you.
Mr E N N NGCOBO: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members of the House, please allow me to present to this hon House a piece of legislation for adoption as an Act of Parliament by this House. This piece of legislation is known as the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill. It is about the construction and conceptualisation of one of the largest and most sensitive radio telescope ever conceived in this world before, known as the Square Kilometre Array telescope.
SKA stands for Square Kilometre Array and the name is derived from the design concept of this fascinating radio telescope in that the telescope is intended to have a collecting area of about one square kilometre for radio wave signals from outer space.
Array in particular refers to an array of radio wave collecting dishes, each of which will have a diameter of about 10 to 15 metres. In total the joint receiving areas of collecting dishes and panels will add up to about 1 million square metres. That is because there will be a core area which will be about a square kilometre and a central geographic advantage area, which will be about 50 kilometres, and the rest which will be the co- ordinated area which is going to be about 150 kilometres in diameter. The rest will be scattered around the region, especially in the neighbouring states and the African region.
The Square Kilometre Array plans to operate at frequencies of between 0,1 and 25 gigahertz - those are bandwidths within which it can operate. But is it also foreseen that at a later stage the band will be widened to between 0,06 and 35 GHz. This will make it 50 times more sensitive than the currently used instrument.
The construction costs of these projects are estimated at €1,5 billion or R12 billion in local currency. The investment will come from partners around the globe and these teams are already working on studies to trade- off the costs against the performance of this instrument.
The SKA will be able to create images of distant radio sources using a special method known as Aperture Synthesis. This is a method which is used to add waves, either to result in new bigger waves or lesser waves, and enables scientists to see how other objects have interfered with radio waves that come from outer space.
Construction is scheduled to begin in 2010 with initial observations expected by 2015, while by 2020 the instrument is expected to be fully operational.
South Africa and Australia have been short-listed by the world community of nations with particular interest in this technology, whilst China and Argentina have been dropped from the list of potential bidders for this radio telescope. If built in South Africa the core of this SKA will be situated in the Karoo region of the Northern Cape Province. Outer stations will fan out from the core advantage areas in a spiral pattern with an array of proposed remote stations in several other African countries and neighbouring states, as I have just pointed out.
On human resource development, the SKA will be a highly flexible instrument designed to address a wide range of fundamental questions with regard to scarce skills in the field, such as Astrophysics, Fundamental Physics, Cosmology, Astrobiology, Particle Astrophysics, etc. A number of key projects will also emerge as spin-offs of this SKA project, as well as the development of previously unthought of talents from amongst our children.
The Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology, through the instrument of public hearings, was able to narrow the gap for minor misunderstandings between the Department of Science and Technology and the affected stakeholders such as Telkom, Eskom, Transnet, the National Association of Broadcasters, Icasa, the Department of Communications, the Northern Cape Province, etc.
In particular, Transnet was concerned that their rail communication network systems would be greatly affected in the designated geographic areas, where they may either be expected to cease their services and operations or upgrade them at high costs to meet the requirements of the Bill. On the other hand, the National Association of Broadcasters was concerned that the Bill sought to challenge the constitutional mandate of Icasa if it gave the Minister of Science and Technology sole control of radio frequencies in the designated geographic advantage areas and felt that such authority by the Minister of Science and Technology would greatly affect their broadcasting operations.
Through the very useful input from the Icasa delegation, we were able to close all gaps of such doubts and concerns. Furthermore, through constructive advice from the portfolio committee, the Department of Science and Technology was able to establish an informal forum for interaction and negotiation with all the affected stakeholders in order to narrow the gap between them. This worked very well and the portfolio committee, together with the Department of Science and Technology, were able to satisfy the stakeholders involved to buy into our understanding as to both the local and international value of the Bill.
At this juncture it is unnecessary for me to add that the SKA telescope is expected to unravel the mysteries of the origins and age of our universe. It will be able to answer fundamental questions about the laws of nature as based on currently known laws of physics. The study by astronomers of dark energy and dark matter using radio waves reveals that our universe was in a gaseous form before the formation of stars and galaxies. The mere fact that the electromagnetic radiation or, simply put, light rays from this period of dark travelled at a fixed speed of 1,1 billion kilometres per hour should be able to make it possible for us to observe today very distant objects such as they were in that distant past.
The SKA telescope is the only tool conceived so far by means which, through the intensive study of the magnetic effect on radio waves passing through distant magnetic regions of the outer reaches of our universe, we will be able to look back in time to the early stages of evolution of the universe.
It will indeed mark a radical breakthrough in our understanding of modern science and the extent to which our human mind can be overstretched to bring the distant past of the early days of the Big Bang, which led to the formation of our universe many billions of years ago, to our present day life.
We trust that this hon House will therefore support this Bill in line with the desires of the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, legislation to provide for the preservation and protection of areas within the Republic that are uniquely situated for radio and optical astronomy instruments, makes one proud of South Africans and their achievements in the exploration of the universe. By putting this Bill on the Statute Book, who knows how many South Africans like Mark Shuttleworth, we will inspire to open up new science and technology frontiers.
Whilst considering sites earmarked for these instruments, the committee had to take note that the instruments could sterilise the economic growth of the surrounding communities and telecommunication service providers. Therefore, we spent much time interviewing all the role-players operating in designated areas to ensure that whilst adhering to the requirements of the astronomers, we will allow the locals not only to benefit from their presence, but at the same time ensure that local business and the community are not detrimentally affected by silencing the existing communication installations.
The Bill puts Africa’s remote areas on the world map and brings South Africans into the arena of the modern technology used in astronomy. It also proves our point, that we do not need machine guns to lead the nation to a better future. By opening up opportunities in science and technology, you inspire them to take up their rightful place in the midst of developed nations.
We should also congratulate our staff, who negotiated with the various role- players to assist us to identify areas where the astronomy instruments can be placed. These often weigh hundreds of tons. They did a sterling job in doing the groundwork to bring role-players to the table, so that Africa can move beyond the era of boasting, only to have Hartebeeshoek and the South African Large Telescope-SALT.
They even steered the politicians away from naming the sites after politicians. One of the observation sites will be called Meerkat. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Prof E S CHANG: Madam Speaker, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, I am delivering this speech on behalf of my colleague, John Bhengu. To ensure South Africa remains ahead of worldwide scientific and technological developments, the IFP has always encouraged international co-operation in all matters relating to research and development.
South Africans should promote high technology investment in space science to ensure that local researchers and students are able to participate at the cutting edge of international astronomy.
The IFP wishes to commend all the stakeholders such as Telkom, Transnet, Eskom and Vodacom who made presentations to the committee. Indeed, without their input, the Bill would not have been the good product that we trust it is. I happily support the Bill. Thank you.
Mr H B CUPIDO: Madam Deputy Speaker, the ACDP welcomes and supports the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill before the House today. South Africa has a rich history of having played an important role in international astronomy projects. Geographically, our country is well situated and highly suitable for astronomy and related scientific endeavours, due to high atmospheric transparency, lower levels of light pollution and minimal radio frequency interference.
Astronomy projects must be seen as of national strategic importance and be protected accordingly, and at the same time be accessible to public participation and managed as a tourist attraction. In doing so, interest in astrology should be stimulated among the youth and adult nation.
One of the objects of this Bill would be to develop skills, capacity and build the expertise among those involved in astronomy and related scientific endeavours in Southern Africa. The ACDP will support the Bill. Thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, as a nation we need to educate ourselves on the valuable link between astronomy, science and human life. Astronomy, which may be defined as the study of the universe beyond the earth’s atmosphere, needs to be endorsed as a field of study in our country that appears to be a perfect platform for investigation.
South Africa is said to have 65 astronomers, of whom only six are blacks. It would also be interesting to note how many are female. The lack of black astronomers has been associated with the limited supply of science educators. The MF hopes that the highlighting of astronomy in October and this Bill will encourage people to pursue careers in this field.
The MF is extremely proud that South Africa has been short-listed to host one of the world’s biggest radio telescopes ever, the Square Kilometre Array. This will pave the way for the great advancement of astronomy and will encourage many research initiatives from abroad to visit our country.
Historically, South Africa has had a great influence on mapping the stars of the southern hemisphere. The study of astronomy in South Africa is growing as an interest. The Bill appears to be the instrument to provide for efficient management and research in this sector. The MF supports the Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, it remains for me to thank the members who participated in the debate, as well as the portfolio committee in the run up to the presentation before this House, in the work they did with all role-players, all interested parties that came to the hearings and contacted us through other means to express their interest in what is being presented. The portfolio committee did a sterling job work and I wish to thank them very much for that. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.
HUMAN SCIENCES RESEARCH COUNCIL BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon members, by agreement, there will not be a debate on this Bill. However, some parties have requested an opportunity to make declarations of vote. I now give them the opportunity to do so for up to two minutes each. Members are requested to approach the waiting benches if they wish to make a declaration of vote.
Declarations of vote:
Mr E N N NGCOBO: Hon Chair, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers, and hon members, please allow me again to present to this hon House another piece of legislation, known as the Human Sciences Research Council Bill. The aim of the Bill is to ensure continuity of the Human Sciences Research Council in the field of research on human sciences, in order to improve the understanding of social conditions and the process of social change in the post-1994 era in our country.
The Bill further seeks to ensure the highest quality of human science research in South Africa and elsewhere in Africa and the rest of the world through networks and joint programmes of research on pressing social issues relevant to human welfare and prosperity. These social issues relate to pressing challenges of our time such as HIV/Aids, poverty and unemployment, skills shortages, social violence, housing etc.
The Bill was not at all contentious, so much so that we only had one submission for a point of note, and this came from the National House of Traditional Leaders. In their submission, they only highlighted the need for proper consultation whenever the HSRC researchers do research in their areas of jurisdiction so that unnecessary social tensions do not develop as a consequence of such research mandates.
So, on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology, I therefore appeal to this hon House again for its support of the Human Sciences Research Council Bill. I thank you.
Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Chairman, all around the globe, the world’s leading democracies have proved that where the leaders turned to scientifically researched solutions instead of ideology to guide their policy decisions, they achieved much greater success in creating sustainable development, wealth and, on top of it, boosted the economy of the region. To prove this statement, one only has to refer to regions such as Scandinavia, Europe, North America and South Africa where, since its inception, the HSRC has played a major role in being the politicians’ adviser on many terrains of human endeavour.
It is for this reason that the DA supports the objectives of the Bill. It empowers our scientific community to play a role in reporting on the challenges of the region. The nations from the regions which I have named have established science councils, promoted research and trained their people to master science and technology. They have proved themselves to be the role models of democracy and development around the world.
The Bill opens doors for the HSRC to research four looming threats to our young democracy. The first issue is global warming and how it will affect Africa. A dedicated unit should be established within the HSRC to continuously advise Parliament and the government on this matter. The second issue is poverty, and how and where we should focus our efforts to eradicate it. The last time this was done was in 1928, when the Dutch Reformed Church, through the Carnegie Commission, researched ways to end poverty in South Africa. That led to the establishment of the welfare department and many nongovernmental organisations. The third area of focus is food production and what we must do to remain self-sustainable in the era of climate change that lies ahead. The fourth issue is how Africa can stop the scourge of Aids and other diseases. In order to do all this, South Africa will require many more graduate researchers to assist the government to develop workable policies to address the challenges which I mentioned.
Ek wil vir die RGN sê hulle moenie wag op instruksies voordat hulle voortgaan met die ontwikkeling van Afrika nie. Hierdie wetsontwerp is hulle mandaat om dit te doen. Hierdie wetsontwerp skep ’n beter toekoms, nie net vir Suider-Afrika nie, maar vir die héle Afrika. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[I want to say to the HSRC that they should not wait for instructions before they continue with the development of Africa. This Bill is their mandate to do that. This Bill creates a better future, not only for Southern Africa, but for the whole of Africa. I thank you.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I’ve listened carefully to the previous speakers. I agree with most of what has been said. The Human Sciences Research Council is indeed one of the foundation stones of South Africa. If one thinks of the wonderful research they conducted in the past, and can still do in future, then one can think of the challenges they may have, not only on global warming and poverty issues, as the previous speaker mentioned, but also other problems that confront our country like migration, poverty, HIV/Aids and others. Therefore, we also enthusiastically support this Bill. Thank you. There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
MIGRANT WORKERS, PEOPLE TRAFFICKING, XENOPHOBIA AND HUMAN RIGHTS
(Debate on Inter-Parliamentary Union topic)
Mr M RAMGOBIN: Chairperson, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, in 1994 the international community stood in awe and marvelled at our country’s transition from apartheid to a democratic order. It marvelled at our ability to reconcile. But, above all these, it marvelled at our affirmation, the ANC-led government’s affirmation, that human rights were universal, indivisible, interdependent and interrelated.
This affirmation rooted in the Freedom Charter remains our commitment. We go further and declare that human rights remain one of the foundations for collective security and wellbeing, and that the promotion and protection of the full enjoyment of all human rights and fundamental freedoms for all are essential to advance development, peace and security.
However, every day people throughout the world face enormous obstacles to realising their human rights. While legal standards have been agreed that define the rights of individuals and the responsibilities of governments, such a setting of standards, including our own, has not automatically led to the realisation of these rights. Major impediments to the full enjoyment of human rights for all, as the Freedom Charter demands, remain.
One of these impediments is xenophobia. And, in searching for the historical roots of xenophobia in our country, with Mark Switch – the researcher of the ANC here - I ask who is here to challenge the assumption that apartheid, social engineering and indoctrination entrenched a system in which every person, black or white, South African or foreigner, was ghettoed and assigned an inflexible ethnic or racial label or identity. Groups were socially isolated and assigned exclusive rights to a geographically bound territory, with only limited and highly regulated access to other areas.
As the bearer of the torch for the respect for human rights and human dignity we in the ANC fought relentlessly to advance this cause, proclaimed by the Freedom Charter, that all national groups shall be protected by law against insults to their race and national pride, the preaching and practice of national, race or colour discrimination and contempt shall be a punishable crime.
Consistent with the Freedom Charter, the preamble of the South African Constitution states: “South Africa belongs to all who live in it.” It is imperative for us to note that there is no reference to place of birth or citizenship status. At the core of the South African democratic dispensation, lie the values of human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms.
As an advocate of universal human rights and Pan-Africanism, the ANC advocates regional integration, social and economic, for the success of Nepad and the African Renaissance. The ANC believes that national development and skills in-migration are compatible. The growth and development of South Africa is interdependent on an integrated continent. Against this backdrop, whilst we concede that no country can claim to be free from racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, there is a particular despair with the rising levels of xenophobia evident in our own country.
We applaud the IPU initiative to get the parliaments of the world to aggressively address and fight xenophobic tendencies. As South African parliamentarians we are aware of the particular role and responsibility that our democratic Parliament, as a guiding institution, has had and still has in our fight against racism, racial discrimination and related intolerance.
Our Parliament adopts laws, approves the national Budget and oversees the Executive branch of government. I believe we as members of this guiding institution have a personal responsibility to use our influence on public opinion to promote the values of diversity, tolerance and co-existence.
It was in pursuit of these values that we as South Africans hosted the World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, in 2001. Today, it is my hope that the IPU will not only encourage national parliaments to review and evaluate progress in relation to the objectives of the world conference but will also urge them to provide special mechanisms to monitor and ensure effective implementation of programmes to fight xenophobia.
Since the IPU already has a pledge, in pursuance of the world conference recommendations, it has to go forward to ensure the implementation of and adherence to relevant international treaties, in particular the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, the Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families and the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and its Protocol.
Earlier on I made the observation that no country can claim to be free from racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance. I say it again, because our own country is not free from these antihuman rights tendencies. But, I take solace that our Parliament, our government, is determined to fight these tendencies. Why else would President Mbeki in 2000 have requested the SA Human Rights Commission to hold a National Conference on Racism?
One of the outcomes of this conference that was most relevant to non- nationals affirmed South Africa’s commitment to providing sanctuary to refugees and asylum seekers and highlighted that their presence in our country had led to unacceptable levels of xenophobia in our communities. The role of public institutions like the police and the Department of Home Affairs was identified as key in combating xenophobia.
Why else would our Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs, together with the SA Human Rights Commission, have held open hearings on xenophobia in November 2004? It is because we as Parliament will not tolerate the intolerance of xenophobia.
Among the several recommendations that emerged in these hearings was that political leaders should take a principled position by unequivocally denouncing xenophobia, and that the allocation of resources for measures to combat xenophobia should be made and that newly arrived asylum seekers should be supported and integrated by assisting them to learn local languages, cultural practices and ways of life.
These recommendations were made in the face of the aberrations of members of our own police service and officials of the Department of Home Affairs and security officers at the Lindela Repatriation Centre, whose actions of arbitrary arrests, detention of foreigners, bribery, corruption, unacceptable delays in processing applications and whatever else cumulatively violated and violate the human rights principle enshrined in our Constitution. These we are committed to correct.
However, the correction needs the participation of civil society as partners. This Parliament can take heart with the knowledge and participation of the hon Minister of Home Affairs at this very hearing who is on record as saying:
The scourge of xenophobia needs to be condemned because it is based on prejudice, is frequently violent and most of the time, racist – there is no way that as the South African government and as a nation we can tolerate or justify xenophobia.
Xenophobic behaviour does tremendous harm and injustice to the believers of ubuntu. It militates against the history of the ANC, which sought the liberation of our people right up to the Limpopo. It further does injustice to our Constitution, which is our supreme law and is the manifestation of a kind of morality and spirituality, which for me is more profound than any dogma or religiosity.
Xenophobic behaviour, sometimes accompanied by brutality, both negates the moral correctness of our cause and threatens to be an instrument that will negate our human rights culture.
In conclusion, for as long as we - I repeat ‘we’ including me - allow the purveyors of xenophobia to stalk our streets, we indeed become conspirators in allowing hatred and fear of foreigners and strangers or their culture, their politics and /or their religion to grow. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs S M CAMERER: Chairperson, this IPU topic certainly covers a lot of ground – migrant workers, people trafficking, xenophobia and human rights – some of which has been covered by the previous speaker.
Today I would like to focus on a growing scourge in Southern Africa, namely trafficking in people, chiefly women and children. There is widespread evidence that trafficking is on the increase in our subcontinent. The International Organisation for Immigration contends that there is one long grass pathway between the Democratic Republic of Congo and Cape Town, with minimal border control. The main destination of victims of trafficking from sub-Saharan Africa, is South Africa.
At the 49th session of the UN Commission on the Status of Women, South Africa co-sponsored a resolution calling on governments to take action to address factors that encourage trafficking for prostitution and other forms of commercialised sex, and to take steps to criminalise trafficking in persons. Our delegation at that session insisted that reference should also be made to Cedaw and other key international instruments, as well as trafficking’s contributory factors, such as poverty and unemployment.
The final text of the resolution also addressed gender inequality as well as external factors that encourage trafficking for prostitution and other forms of commercialised sex, and called for steps to criminalise trafficking in women. However, in spite of this, we have not yet got our own house in order.
In spite of the fact that the UN Protocol to Prevent Trafficking in Persons is in force in South Africa, and has been for some time, as I stand here, we do not have any legislation in operation which specifically outlaws trafficking in persons, especially women and girl children, for the purposes of sexual or any other form of exploitation. Some progress has been made, but it has all been very slow.
The SA Police Service has, for years, been calling for a specific law to outlaw trafficking. Early last year, Saps’ Sexual Offences and Child Protection Units, as well as specialists in sexual offences from the National Prosecution Authority, briefed Parliament. Both deplored the fact that South Africa has no specific legislation outlawing trafficking in persons in spite of years of requests from these authorities.
The NPA points out that it is extremely difficult to prosecute successfully for trafficking in the current legal environment. Saps also makes the point that sexual exploitation appears to be the main form of trafficking in South Africa at this point in time, though this may change.
For the past four years, the DA has been campaigning in Parliament for legislation to be passed outlawing the trafficking of women and children for the purposes of sexual exploitation. In April 2003 we submitted a private member’s Bill to amend the Child Care Act to render trafficking in children a criminal offence. This was approved by the Standing Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions and forwarded to the Departments of Justice and Social Development for implementation.
The new Children’s Act now does contain a comprehensive provision outlawing trafficking in children. However, although the Act was passed in 2005, these sections have still not been implemented.
When the Sexual Offences Bill was before the Justice committee in 2003, the DA proposed, and it was agreed, that a provision be included outlawing trafficking in women and children for the purposes of sexual exploitation. This has been included in the revised Bill, which was eventually passed by this House in May this year.
It was then referred to the NCOP, and I understand that the NCOP received its first briefing on this legislation by the Justice department only this week. The reason for this delay is entirely unclear.
Parliament’s approach to the legislation outlawing trafficking has thus been somewhat piecemeal and very slow. The DA believes it is important to get the prohibition of trafficking contained in the Sexual Offences Bill and the Children’s Act implemented in order to give the police that extra weapon to fight the scourge.
Ideally, antitrafficking legislation should cover the full gamut of trafficking for domestic work, other forms of labour, forced marriages, adoptions, organ sales and so on. The SA Law Commission is working on comprehensive legislation that we would all like to see, but thus far the commission has only published a discussion paper on trafficking in persons, for comment. It may be years before we have draft legislation covering the full spectrum of offences.
In the meantime, because sexual exploitation of women and children is the main form of trafficking in South Africa at this point, according to the police, we should push ahead and implement the interim provisions contained in the Children’s Act and the Sexual Offences Bill. We, in the DA, appeal to government to get a move on with this. Thank you.
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, the ominous challenge of rapidly increasing global migration, xenophobia, people trafficking and human rights is affecting countries around the world, and not only South Africa. The issue we are debating is, therefore, an international issue.
In the European Union, one issue has been about increasing migrant labour to do work which citizens prefer not to do. Thus, the European Union has had to give attention to integration as well as assimilation.
South Africa’s most pressing migration concern is the large number of foreigners in search of the very thing that is already scarce in our country, namely work. It is estimated that around 3,5 million Zimbabweans are currently in South Africa. Some observers say there are more than 10 million foreigners in our country.
The presence of this large number of foreigners has various negative implications – social, economic and criminal. We have seen local communities become violent against foreigners. Many ordinary people think foreigners are hijacking their jobs, exacerbating our high crime rate and putting pressure on our Public Service.
The challenge, therefore, is: How do we prevent massive migration into South Africa? One answer is for South Africa to help solve the problems that migrants experience in their countries of origin. It is unrealistic to expect foreigners to return to their countries to face the very problems that drove them out.
South Africa and the world, therefore, urgently need a universal strategy to deal with migration, in terms of which the principles of ubuntu and self- protection are balanced and where the international community plays a more decisive role in solving the problems in those countries where the main problems are.
Next year, as we know, the 118th International Parliamentary Union meeting will be held in Cape Town. It is going to be a very historic moment, in April next year, when more than a hundred parliaments of the world will come to Cape Town, with around 1 500 parliamentarians from all over the world.
We, South Africans, should be able to choose who comes to South Africa, what they do whilst they are here and how long they are to stay. Our immigration law lays a good foundation for this ideal. The real problem, however, is in relation to those who come here illegally and those who traffic foreigners in.
The point is that, next year, when the International Parliamentary Union sits in Cape Town, this problem should be addressed by all the parliaments in the world. We should address the problem of migrant workers, of people who are hungry, people seeking work, people trafficking, the problems that Mrs Camerer alluded to – xenophobia, human rights and ubuntu. It will be the ideal moment next year, when all the parliaments of the world are here in South Africa, to address these issues and identify and devise a proper strategy.
In conclusion, let us respect the human rights of all, but let us firstly protect our own people. Thank you.
Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, this year marks the abolition of slavery 200 years ago. South Africans seem to be ignorant of this.
Human trafficking, which is modern-day slavery, thrives because of ignorance and profitability. Many of us don’t know the dangers of this practice. Studies have shown that children are kidnapped, handed over or sold into prostitution, or are working as slaves. Those who are lucky enough to escape are often too ashamed to return home, so the reality of trafficking rarely reaches us.
Research also indicates that traffickers today face a low risk of arrest and prosecution. They can become well-organised into armed syndicates that bribe their way past law enforcement, immigration and judicial officials. This practice must be halted now, and for this we also need adequate funding to implement the necessary legislation.
In our preparations for the 2010 Soccer World Cup event, we must put measures in place to prevent all forms of human trafficking. South Africa cannot let this evil practice flourish; we must prepare our Police Service to prevent it. Thank you.
Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson, Deputy Ministers, hon members, distinguished guests, through the International Labour Organization, international communities have agreed to entrench in law basic standards to protect migrant workers. Accordingly, the ILO conventions on migrant workers have become an international instrument to set minimum standard of treatment for migrant workers’ rights.
Furthermore, through the adoption of the 1990 International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families, there has been an expanding trend in respect of the extension of migration and of human rights principles in general. In addition, through the appointment of the UN Special Rapporteur on human rights in respect of migration in general, there has been a more specific focus on the application of human rights to migrant workers.
Without a doubt, as governments continue to grapple with the new realisation of their multi-ethnic societies, there has been a marked increase in discrimination and violence against migrants by extremist groups in many parts of the world. These kinds of discrimination and violence against migration in general and migrant workers in particular, find expression in a propensity for certain predominantly western societies to discriminate against people, based on religion, race, sex, economic situation and xenophobia.
This is at variance with the basic tenets of human rights and respect for human dignity. In contrast to this propensity to discriminate against people on the basis of religion, race or economic status, human rights recognise that certain principles are true and valid for all people in all societies under all conditions of economic, political, ethnic and cultural life.
This is the position that the ANC has always advocated and continues to espouse, not only within South Africa but also in its engagement within Africa and in the world. This would inevitably be the same kind of approach that the ANC will adopt when engaging at all international forums like the IPU.
The post-apartheid years have seen a resurgence in pan-African and regional initiatives with the aim of encouraging African-led regional and continental development through co-operation and integration. South Africa has played a leading role in the development of Nepad, perhaps illustrating South Africa’s new commitment to continental and regional organisations and development since 1994. The country hosted the first Pan-African Parliament under the aegis of the AU in September 2004.
South Africa is also a member of SADC. SADC aims to promote regional development through regional co-operation and integration. A number of initiatives and protocols have been drawn up to promote this aim, some with implications for migration and migration policy. Any discussion of migration to and from South Africa, as well as its legislation and policies, needs to be located within the context of South Africa’s commitment to the region and the continent.
Currently, South Africa’s situation exemplifies the ILO’s 2004 observations about the significance of intra-regional labour movement in the new global economy. South Africa has been a migrant-receiving country for decades. The majority of those migrants were and are from neighbouring countries within the southern African region. Until 1994 South Africa was also a destination for white immigrants from Europe.
The most significant change in the last twenty years has been the virtual cessation of immigration from Europe and a dramatic increase in the number of skilled immigrants leaving South Africa for those destinations. South Africa continues to receive migrants from neighbouring countries, but in greater numbers. The migrant stream has also become far more diverse. For example, South Africa has begun to receive immigrants from developing countries further afield, including the rest of the continent. And, as we know, we are currently seeing this within the Asian region in particular, where one finds lots of people coming from the East. Since 1994, there has seemingly been a hardening in policy attitudes towards immigration and migration globally – it is not only a problem in South Africa but a global problem - or a rise in xenophobia. These changing attitudes are likely to be reflected in changes in a political dispensation, where the majority of people in the world can now have expectations of their government and their state, as well as changes in patterns of migration, which may be troubling for the government, given its commitment to the region and the continent. African migrants appear to be most affected by these changing attitudes, as other comrades and members have mentioned around the issue of xenophobia. These are tendencies that you find globally; it is not only a South African problem.
South Africa provides an extremely pertinent case study of the challenges that face national governments which are burdened with the legacy of an immigration system that was racially exclusive, ignored its location in Africa and exemplified all the worst features of temporary labour migration. At the same time, the government is faced with the legacy of apartheid on its own population and developing a policy which reflects its own commitment to the continent and the region.
The challenges are many and complex. For example, South Africa is allowing unskilled workers into the country, where domestic unemployment is at about 30-40%. Why should one sector - the mining sector - enjoy exclusive access to foreign migration and be allowed to determine how many migrants it will employ and from where? Should such a privilege be denied to other employees? Will greater legal access to the South African labour market dampen irregular migration? What should the consequences be of greater freedom of access of migrants to the South African labour market? How can departure of skilled immigrants, or the brain-drain, be reduced and its impact ameliorated? How, to sum up, does a country receiving a large number of unwanted migrants at the bottom end of the labour market and exporting a large number of skilled migrants at the top end of the market through a sizeable brain-drain, turn migration into a win-win situation?
As we all know, the current situation is that most of our skilled South Africans are being deliberately recruited by developed countries, because they are faced with the challenge of their own communities not being able to provide for their economies. Therefore, South Africa and the continent find themselves at the receiving end, because when these developed countries recruit the skills that they take from the continent, they are not ploughing back anything or helping these countries that have produced doctors or engineers. These developed countries are unable to do that.
Therefore, I think it is a challenge that, as we move forward, we need to look at what procedures we need to put in place to begin to get those who are recruiting our skills out of the continent to plough something back, possibly by helping to develop and build education in our country so that we are able to sustain and build our own economies.
The challenges of managing migration in South Africa are rendered more complex by the fact that the ending of apartheid opened up the country to new forms of global, continental and regional migration. As the mine labour system has gone into a prolonged period of decline, so the South African government has had to confront a regional migration regime that has become more varied.
Furthermore, these challenges are located in the context where South Africans show high rates of hostility or xenophobia towards non-nationals, and particularly African migrants, before examining the South African response to these policy changes. It is important to review the changes in migration that have occurred in the last 10 to 15 years.
Changes resulting in policy change in respect of migration have been set in motion by globalisation, the collapse of apartheid and economic and social crises in other parts of Africa, as well as perceived opportunities in post- apartheid South Africa.
In order to establish exactly what has changed since 1990, it is important to briefly outline the development of labour migration to South Africa. This exercise also highlights the legacy of the apartheid period. The defining characteristics of regional labour migration to South Africa before and during the apartheid era were that it was sectoral-based, with gender differentiation, irregularity in exploitation and racist migrant selection. Each of these pillars needs brief elaboration for combined, the constitute the constitutional and legal inheritance that confronted the country’s first democratic government and its social partners in 1994.
Historically, white labour migrants from Europe and decolonising African countries, often regardless of skills, were welcomed by the apartheid state. Black African labour migrants could only enter under contract and were concentrated in the South African mining industry. The precise mix of source countries for African mine migration varied over time. Mozambique, Lesotho, and until the 1970s, Malawi, were the major suppliers of this unskilled labour which was mostly concentrated in the mines.
For African migrants, legal entry into South Africa was on a temporary basis or fixed contract and governed by bilateral treaties between South Africa and the supplier states. All migrants were recruited by a single industrial financial monopoly - the Employment Bureau of South Africa - which operated an extensive network of recruitment offices in supplying states. At the end of the contract migrants had to return home to renew it and if they became ill or disabled - a common occurrence - they were sent back home without even being given a proper permit. As we really deal with the issue of globalisation we need to look at ourselves as South Africa, and what we need to do is not what Koos has said, namely that we need to protect our people. What we need to do as South Africa, is ask ourselves what we can do to attract the skills that we need and protect those that we are able to recruit and integrate them into the same areas that we expect them to come and perform in. One of the biggest challenges is that even if we can recruit skills from outside, the problem of xenophobia will still play a role, in that people will be labelled as outsiders and that of itself will impact very negatively on the development of the economy and the country.
The challenge that Africa should focus on is how best to protect ourselves, not only in South Africa but as a continent, to ensure that the skills that we are training and developing are maintained and we can keep them for some time. To keep the skills that we need, we must create conducive conditions for our skilled workers to remain in the country and give them the necessary resources or remuneration that can really sustain themselves and their families and ensure the development and wellbeing of the continent. This is a challenge that we must face head-on as a continent. It is a challenge that all of us must come together and address. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, the phenomenon of migrant workers is universal and their treatment patterns are almost the same, regardless of which country one can think of.
Migrant workers are treated like slaves. They are made to work 12 hours daily; seven days a week, at low wages. In a civilised world such exploitation should be stopped right away. We note that the United Nations is investigating a rash of human rights violations, including abusive working conditions, nonpayment of wages, arbitrary detentions and collective illegal deportations.
Jorge Bustamante, the UN Special Rapporteur on human rights of immigrants, has written to culprit countries on the abuse of human rights of immigrants, namely Australia, Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea, South Africa, Canada, the Philippines and the United States of America. It should concern us that South Africa is the only country in Africa that has been pointed out as leading in the violation of the rights of immigrants.
Ill-treatment of immigrants at border posts, deaths as a result of excessive use of force by the police, summary expulsions, gender violence, and withholding of passports are among the common abuses migrant workers are made to suffer. The African Union, in their Migration Policy Framework for Africa, have noted that a rise in discrimination and xenophobia against migrants is a great concern to the 54-member union. The untoward treatment meted out to people who hail from elsewhere in Africa has to be addressed, that is with reference to South Africa. A simple example is the outcry that followed the appointment of the new chief executive officer of the Premier Soccer League. Despite the fact that the position was advertised, there was a feeling that the position should have been given to or occupied by some son of the soil. This is a clear-cut indication of the xenophobia in this country.
Every effort has to be made to combat racism and xenophobia, because Peter Sutherland, the UN Secretary-General’s Special Representative on International Migration Development, has said that, at least, if selections were made regarding migrants based on their skills and not their race, gender or religion, it would be much better. There is also an argument to the effect that while states have a right to control their borders, they do not have a right to make irregular migration punishable by law.
In conclusion, perhaps we can learn a lot in terms of giving effect to what we believe – at least some of us – namely that a human being, regardless of origin, background, race, gender, creed or social status, should be loved, respected, served, consulted and tolerated. In that way we hope we can make a better planet for us all. I thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, it is estimated that there are 12 million people, mostly children, entrapped in slavery around the world. Some 150 million people, which is 3% of the world’s population, are said to be outside their country of origin. Be it a child labourer, a female prostitute or a migrant worker whose passport has been confiscated to gain ownership of that person, this is a grim picture and we need to rescue our people.
A factor contributing to people trafficking has been the limitation placed on immigration. South Africa is reported to have a large population of illegal immigrants and our local citizenry has become xenophobic over the presence of immigrants, often resulting in physical abuse such as that endured by the Somali residents in South Africa over the past year.
Our people need to be enlightened and need to have empathy for our neighbours and the degrading situations they have been forced to endure. During the apartheid era many of our neighbouring countries served as an exile ground for our activists. Africa is home to all Africans, to whom no boundaries exist, as a people.
While our democratic South Africa may have a great number of human rights, we need to contain the situation in terms of human trafficking, migrant labour and xenophobia. While legislation in this regard may sustain legalities, it is South Africa’s fabric of people, human conscience and mindset that will eradicate domestic concerns in this regard. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, I concur with the sentiments expressed by the hon Koos van der Merwe on the need for our government to control migration.
The need to migrate is linked to a number of factors, as Zimbabwean migrants bear testimony. Many societies are not usually prepared to assimilate the dynamics that go along with migration. Migration may, of course, be controlled where a country makes huge attempts to import skills and other scarce human resources, while migration can also become uncontrolled and disruptive as a result of people fleeing from war-torn, politically or economically unstable areas into neighbouring countries.
South Africa’s Constitution states that we aim to build a united and democratic society. However, not very far into our democratic history, many citizens from abroad and from Africa have taken refuge in our country. Thus, we find ourselves still trying to build a united nation, dealing with suspicions and alienation in our own multiracial society. We have an influx of migrants adding more demands on our young democracy, while they are looking for democracy. Perhaps, as a result, we might have witnessed instances of xenophobic attacks from communities around South Africa.
How do we deal with human rights demands from others when our nation is still struggling to establish a human and social rights culture? Maybe this is the debate that we are going to have to take forward at the IPU conference. I thank you.
Ms A VAN WYK: Chairperson, I know it is courteous to inform a member when you are going to address them during your speech. Unfortunately, before I could extend that courtesy to the hon Camerer, she has left the Chamber. Since she has not displayed the courtesy to sit through the debate that she participated in, I will be uncourteous and continue to address her. I am sure she will receive the message – Mr Blanché will relay it to her.
The hon Camerer has created the impression that human or people trafficking started with the ANC government. I would have liked to ask her, had she been here, what she did about the issue of human trafficking during her period as Deputy Minister of Justice. All that the hon Camerer has done today is to display that she has no understanding of the complexity of the problem of human trafficking.
People or human trafficking – as it is also known - is a very old phenomenon and dates back to the beginning of history, based on reports on bondage and slavery. It is only in recent years that the international community has arrived at a common definition of human trafficking. Trafficking is broadly defined, in order to protect victims from a full range of exploitation. This exploitation, in effect, degrades the victim’s human dignity.
The three main elements which are part of the definition of trafficking are: the actions making up trafficking or the recruiting phase; the transporting phase and the means used to maintain the victim’s co- operation; and the purpose of the process phase or, more specifically, the actual exploitation phase.
Exploitation can refer to economic exploitation through forced labour, sexual exploitation or prostitution, illegal adoptions, recruiting children into armed conflict or even the removal of human organs – it is not just simply about sexual exploitation. A danger in the debate on human trafficking is the overemphasising and simplification of trafficking as just sexual exploitation as the main aspect of human trafficking, at the cost of other purposes for trafficking people.
With the adoption of the United Nations Protocol on the Trafficking in Persons, of which South Africa is a signatory, countries visibly improved their political commitment to combat human trafficking. On our continent this commitment is displayed through the 1990 African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child.
In 2002 the African Union reaffirmed the commitment of the countries of Africa to the fight against human trafficking by identifying the elimination of child trafficking as a priority. Currently, South Africa does not have specific legislation to deal with human trafficking and aspects of it are dealt with through other pieces of legislation.
Interestingly enough, countries like Australia only passed legislation on human trafficking a year ago. The Children’s Act which was passed recently, for instance, criminalises child trafficking. However, South Africa has committed itself to develop specific legislation to combat trafficking within, to and from South Africa.
In order for us to pass legislation that will deal with the problem effectively, it is necessary that we understand the extent of the problem. We still find confusion about the difference between human trafficking and illegal immigration. We have no official figures regarding the extent of the trafficking of people into, out of and through South Africa. Unofficially, an article on Independent Online has estimated that more than 600 000 people are trafficked through South Africa each year. The truth is that very little is known about the scope and characteristics of human trafficking in South Africa.
It goes without saying that, in order to properly combat human trafficking and to pass effective legislation in this regard, we need to understand the structural factors that facilitate trafficking. A common aspect which does exist and which has been mentioned in available research studies is the push and pull factors present in human trafficking.
On the push side, there are factors such as poverty, lack of opportunities, dislocation - for instance, circumstances of street children, gender, racial and ethnic inequalities as well as the break-up of families. The pull factors include the promise of a better life, consumer aspirations, not knowing that there are risks involved, patterns of migration and porous borders. Though this provides us with some information and assists us to understand human trafficking a bit better, clearly there is a need for more sophisticated and South African-specific information.
Another aspect of trafficking that requires more research is to understand why the victims remain in exploitative situations. The reasons available to us for these are diverse. Some remain in this situation because they are threatened by their employers that they will declare them as illegal immigrants to the authorities and thus they find themselves in a position where their passports are being withheld or where they are threatened with deportation. This is especially true where a work permit is coupled to a named employer.
Others are told that they need to repay the passage to the destination country. Often, especially in cases of organised crime, the victim is threatened that relatives remaining in the country of origin will be harmed or even killed. We also need to understand the trafficker better. Very little is known about the trafficker. And, how do you effectively combat human trafficking if you do not have sufficient information about those people behind it? Again, we find that more is known about people behind human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation than about those involved in human trafficking for the purpose of cheap labour.
In the case of trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation, it is found that it is a fairly organised phenomenon and that these people often form part of organised crime syndicates. What little is known about labour trafficking indicates that such trafficking often takes place under legal cover through private recruitment agencies, contract work or even through the abuse of seasonal work schemes.
It is interesting that a study of the International Labour Organisation, 2003, entitled: Trafficking in human beings - new approaches in combating the problems, found that crime networks make huge profits hiring out their infrastructure, including transport, corrupt officials, safe houses, etc for the illegal movement of contraband and people.
In so far as the proposed draft South African legislation is concerned, the above factors and many more should be taken into account. The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security conducted a study tour to Australia last year to investigate human trafficking. Through this tour we learnt a couple of valuable lessons that can be put to use in the South African situation. I want to address just a few of them, and the full report is available.
In the field of legislation, one of the most important aspects is that legislation should address the issue of reducing the demand. The draft Bill ensures that buyers of the services of victims of trafficking will be guilty of an offence, and this must be supported. Legislation should include financial or other penalties against brothel owners. Legislation must be premised on the protection of women and children as a human rights issue rather than a criminal justice issue. Strong recommendations should be made to include higher penalties for the trafficking of children.
In the area of investigations, training for the police must include a compassionate, victim-centred approach. Training should include innovative training techniques which alert the police to the vulnerability of the victim and nuances of exploitation. In training, use should be made of people working in the sex industry so that the police can have a better understanding of freedom of choice and debt bondage.
As human trafficking is a phenomenon that is cross-border, intercontinental and regional, international collaboration by the police is important. Such an agreement should preferably be formalised. It may happen that an investigation requires a concurrent investigation in the home country. There are more recommendations in this regard, but these are contained in the full report.
Regarding the areas of prosecution, it might be necessary to hear cases in the specialised sexual offences court, and then efforts should be made to ensure that all prosecutors and magistrates attached to these courts receive appropriate training. Currently, the draft Bill refers only to training for the SAPS and Home Affairs officials. In the light of that Australian experience, training for the prosecution and those that hear the cases is strongly suggested.
It is clear that we cannot deny that we are affected by the phenomenon of human trafficking. It is clear that it is a problem that fundamentally challenges and violates the dignity of victims involved. It is a complex and extremely involved type of crime. It requires the co-operation and involvement of many different government departments and it requires international co-operation.
This is a highly emotive and politicised issue. We need to engage in this battle with our emotions and politics under control, and with clear heads and utter determination so as to realise the intentions of our Constitution and the Freedom Charter. The Freedom Charter states clearly that everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT BUDGET COMMITTEE - EXPENDITURE
IN FIRST QUARTER OF 2007/08 FINANCIAL YEAR
Ms L L MABE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Members of the House, I’d like to start by referring you to the correct version of the Joint Budget Committee Report, which is before you on your tables. That report was published in the ATCs of 10 September 2007. I’d like to indicate that the report that was presented on 10 September was the wrong one and the correct one is the one before you. It will be printed tomorrow and you will find it in your offices.
I want to indicate at the beginning that we really appreciate the effort that Parliament has taken to ensure that this committee can do its work much better than was the case previously. Firstly, there was the appointment of a permanent committee secretary as well as a permanent committee researcher. On several occasions I have raised the problem of not having a dedicated researcher for the committee and at least this time I want to thank the people who made that effort to ensure that we have a dedicated researcher. That dedicated researcher has helped us, and I want to indicate that you have given us an energetic young man – he is very energetic. He is also willing to work with us and also contributes a lot to our committee.
I’d also like to indicate that these two individuals that were appointed have assisted us to do our work by ensuring that at least for the very first time we are able to report within a month after the presentation of the first quarter report. For the very first time we are able to report within a month’s time. At the same time we were also able to address follow- up questions to the departments when we were not satisfied with their performance or their spending. At least we could follow-up so that they could come back to us. In future we hope that we will start to interact with the portfolio committees so that we can make them aware of what the problems are within their specific departments.
This has also assisted us to change the format of our report. From time to time we want our reports to be user-friendly so that members of this House will find it easy, within your busy schedules, to go through our reports. One of the changes that we have effected in the committee’s report is to remove all tables and put them at the back of the report as appendixes, so as to ensure that at least you can quickly go through the report. If you want further references then you can go to the back of the report where you will find the tables.
What I am going to do for now is to focus on general spending and spending by specific departments. We took a decision that we are not going to look at all departments’ spending, but instead we will take a few of them, focus more on them so that during the next quarter we will take another batch and focus on them and we can then inform the portfolio committees on what is happening in those departments. That is work in progress and I’ll also report on work in progress with regard to the National Treasury.
In our report, hon Dambuza, hon Wang and hon Mashigo will take up the reports on those specific departments, but I’ll deal with general spending, capital spending, current spending, as well as transfer payments. With regard to general spending, the trend is the as in previous years in that, at the beginning of the financial year, most of the departments have underspent. As usual, come February they will start to spend. We are appealing to members of this House to take this into consideration so that they make follow-ups in terms of why departments are not spending during the first three quarters of the year. In that way you will at least be able to know: Are the departments able to deliver or not?
With regard to current spending, which includes compensation to employees, this is creating a serious problem for the committee because, if there are vacancies in departments, how will those departments be able to monitor implementation of policy? Secondly, how will they be able to deliver services to the people? Vacant posts imply that there are no people to do the work, whereas there is money allocated for those vacancies for people to be employed to do the work.
At the same time we also have a problem with entities such as public enterprises. We appeal to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises to please have a closer look at these entities and public enterprises, because from time to time they come back to Parliament to ask for funding. Engage them and probe them more so that you will know what the problems are that make them come back to Parliament and ask for more funding. In our engagement we realised at the end of the first quarter that the Department of Public Enterprises would possible come to Parliament and ask for more money because at that stage they had already spend 109% of their budget. They had overspent already in the first three months of the year.
I’d also like to indicate that it is our intention to further engage with the National Treasury, the Department of the Public Service and Administration, the Public Service Commission and other parliamentary committees in terms of what is really happening in these departments, so that from time to time we can have that kind of mutual relationship as committees of Parliament.
I’d also want to indicate what recommendation we have come up with, hon Chauke. The Departments of Home Affairs, Transport, Education, Sport and Recreation and Housing are to provide recent details on progress with regard to the number of posts in those departments per level of employment which are not occupied. How long have these posts been vacant? It is important for us to know whether they have been vacant for a year, for three years or how long. We must also know what measures these departments have taken to reduce these vacancies in this financial year and in the medium term.
With regard to transfer payments, the transfer payments are not commensurate with delivery in the provinces. That is a problem. Our recommendation is that the departments which are referred to in section 2 of our report will have to provide a breakdown of spending by economic classification and programme to the committee on a quarterly basis so that we will be able to do targeted oversight. As I said earlier on, during the next quarter we will then look at other departments so that we can focus more closely on what those departments are doing.
Capital spending is the key driver for economic development and job creation in a developmental state. What is taking place right now is that, like in previous years, departments are not spending on capital. They are not spending and when we looked at the first three quarters, from 1 April until the end of December, departments were not spending. They were spending far less than 10% and suddenly you find that in February or March a department would spend more than 50%. One then wants to ask: What is happening? These are some of the issues that we need to engage with so that the departments can tell us exactly why they must spend more than 50% in one month. How is that possible?
I would also like to urge members to probe these departments to budget for maintenance. They don’t budget for maintenance and that is why when you go to the provinces, for instance, in the case of road maintenance, you need to ask: What is happening? Why do we have roads that are deteriorating? The department does not budget for road maintenance and this should be looked into. Our recommendation is that all departments must budget for maintenance.
I’d like to discuss the Department of Sport and Recreation, which is the centre department with regard to 2010. The department has a huge percentage of vacant posts. The question that we ask ourselves, hon Komphela, is: If they have a lot of vacancies, how are they going to monitor spending in terms of 2010? Secondly, how are they going to monitor whether the programmes are produced on time? These are some of the things that need to be taken into consideration. We expect that at a later stage, they would come and say that they don’t have capacity to do monitoring and go to different projects so that they can be in a position to report to the portfolio committee in terms of what is really happening on the ground.
Hon members, we have also taken pains with the section 32 reports, which do not give us much information as Parliament. We have engaged the with National Treasury and they are revising those section 32 reports, so that they can give you more information to enable you to do better oversight. Without information it is difficult to do oversight. We will report back to this House in terms of how far they are with that and whether we are satisfied with the kind of information given by them to ensure that we do better oversight.
With more information on section 32 reports, committees will have more power to do their work. Committees will have more information that they can engage with to ensure that the departments deliver. It is important for departments to deliver services. We don’t want to see the protest actions that we see from time to time, because money is available and departments must deliver. Let us engage them and check whether they are delivering or not.
Finally, I’d like to congratulate my colleagues the hon Dambuza, hon Chikunga and hon Dithebe on their redeployment by the ANC to become Whips. I want to say: Bravo! With the effort that you put into this office, I am confident that you will be able to do your work better and I want to thank you for your energy and all the hard work that you put into the work of the committee. I’d also like to thank hon Fubbs. I wonder where she is. Hon Fubbs, thank you very much for insisting that I must push that our reports are debated in this House so that members will start to understand what we are doing. Thank you, very much for being a pain in the neck for that. I’d also like to thank the co-chairperson Mr Mkaliphi for our mutual working relationship, to ensure that we are able to report to Parliament on time.
Dr Rabie, Mr Stephens, I also want to thank you for your contributions in the committee. You have been working very well with us and your contribution will be missed. I hope that you will pass on the message to Mr Swart - he should work well with us. We had no partisan views in the committee. We looked at whether the departments were doing their work and whether they were spending or not. Thank you very much for that.
I’d also like to indicate at the end of my speech that the Minister of Finance has released this book last week. This book is going to help you. Utilise this book. It is referred to as the Provincial Budgets and Expenditure Review. This book helps you to know what is happening in the departments within the provinces. It gives us information about delivery in the provinces. At the end of the book, there are tables which will indicate to you how many land claims have been completed in each province; how many nurses you have in your provinces; how many ARVs are provided to people in your province; how many emergency vehicles there are in your province or in your constituency – this is a useful book that all of us need to use so that we can do better oversight, as we continue with our work as Parliament.
I want to quote from this book. On the first page of this book the Minister of Finance reports that “service delivery information is not always readily available to stand against expenditure data, for efficiency of spending to be assessed”. The information that we get is not commensurate with the money that we allocate to the departments. He acknowledges that despite the undeniable progress … I present this report for adoption. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Dr S M VAN DYK: Chairperson, just this week, the Minister of Housing, Lindiwe Sisulu, threatened residents of Joe Slovo in Langa when she said that she would remove their names from the housing list, one by one. This was her response to the angry masses for demonstrating their frustration at her department’s inability to manage government’s response to the housing needs of our country. Shots were fired and blood flowed.
Today we stand here in Parliament, safely ensconced behind high security gates, to consider the Joint Budget Committee’s Report on First Quarter Expenditure. From the report it appears that our housing empress, despite all her huffing and puffing, is, in fact, quite naked. The report reflects that the Department of Housing, for the first quarter, has spent only 16,9% of its total allocation for the year and only 30% of the allocation for capital expenditure. Closer scrutiny reveals that this was R300 million less than the amount stated in the approved drawings on the National Revenue Fund.
If anything, this confirms that, while the hon Minister is lavishing her pet N2 project with attention, she is not focussing sufficiently on the provincial housing departments who are failing in their responsibility to deliver housing to the people. We hope that the overall poor showing of the department, under her executive leadership, will be sufficient cause for the Minister to exercise a little restraint when next she hurls abuse at our people. We also trust that the improvement in expenditure shown by her department is a sign of better things to come.
The Joint Budget Committee’s report reminds us that the Department of Home Affairs has the responsibility to protect and regulate the interests of the inhabitants of the Republic. That this department has not been doing so for some time now, is a well known fact. That the Minister who led this department to near collapse is still in her job is a disgrace and clearly a result of her political loyalty to President Thabo Mbeki, rather than her competence.
Yesterday, a Mr Viljoen, an elderly gentleman from Green Point, visited our research office to explain his frustration at the weak functioning of our Department of Home Affairs. His concern was that, despite all the talk about the turnaround of the department, very little has happened. Unfortunately, we had to explain to Mr Viljoen that we did not expect too much to happen in the near future, since its staff has voted with their feet.
At the end of the previous financial year, it recorded a vacancy rate of almost 30%. Given the fact that this department managed to spend only 1,6% of its capital budget for 2007-08, the Joint Budget Committee was undoubtedly justified in registering its concern. How unfortunate then that the Department of Home Affairs did not deem it necessary to dignify further queries from the Joint Budget Committee with a timeous response!
Unfortunately Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula’s department was not the only one to show its disdain to Parliament in this manner. The Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry, Science and Technology, and Correctional Services have all been equally uncooperative.
Korrektiewe Dienste het net 11% van sy kapitaalbegroting spandeer. Minister Balfour, dit lyk my u gaan op hierdie swak bestedingsbasis van verlede jaar aan. Met die vorige boekjaar het u R603 miljoen vir die Tesourie terug gegee, omdat u nie vakante poste kon vul nie. U het R197 miljoen vir die Tesourie terug gegee omdat u nie die drie tronke kon bou wat 12 000 gevangenes sou huisves nie. Minister, hoekom spandeer u nie die geld wat die Tesourie vir u gee nie? Miskien moet u maar bedank. Dalk gaan dit dan beter in die departement! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Correctional Services spent only 11% of its capital budget. Minister Balfour, it seems to me that you are continuing on this bad spending trend from last year. In the previous financial year you returned R603 million to the Treasury because you could not fill vacant positions. You gave back R197 million to the Treasury because you could not build the three prisons that would have accommodated 12 000 prisoners. Minister, why don’t you spend the capital that the Treasury allocates to you? Maybe you should resign. Perhaps things would then improve in the department!]
The Democratic Alliance is also increasingly concerned over the Department of Transport’s seeming inability to spend its budget in the execution of its tasks. The Joint Budget Committee notes that this department has fallen short of the 25% spending benchmark for the first quarter and contextualises its concern against a history of underspending and bad financial planning and management.
Not too long ago, the Minister of Transport, Jeffrey Thamsanqa Radebe, alarmed our voters when he said that there was a R50 billion shortfall for transport infrastructure over the next five years. Are we to believe that, were the shortfall not there, this vital delivery department would be able to spend it?
Our taxpayers simply do not deserve to have to spend more and more time trying to get onto the commuter trains and stuck in road traffic jams while the Department of Transport plays catch-up.
Waar is die ministers vandag? Waar is die Minister van Behuising, die Minister van Korrektiewe Dienste en die Minister van Binnelandse Sake? Die feit dat hulle nie eens vandag hier is om hulle departemente se swak bestedingstendense te bespreek en te debateer nie, wys vir ons hoe min hulle omgee vir die belastingbetaler. Hulle is nie eens hier om dit aan te hoor nie! Miskien moet die Speaker in die toekoms hierdie ministers verplig om in die Parlement te wees wanneer die begrotingsbestedingsdebatte gevoer word.
Minister Manuel vorder ongeveer R29 miljard meer belasting in - die sogenaamde oorskotbelasting - wat hy liewer in die ekonomie moes los. Dit terwyl Suid-Afrikaners met hulle 28,2% koers, van die hoogste belasting betaal ter wêreld!
Gegewe dat die belastingbetaler dus leeg gemelk word, sou `n mens verwag dat die Tesourie geld aan die departemente gee volgens behoorlike besigheidsplanne. Die vraag is egter: wat doen die Tesourie om toe te sien dat hierdie departemente hulle geld dienooreenkomstig effektief spandeer? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Where are the Ministers today? Where is the Minister of Housing, the Minister of Correctional Services and the Minister of Home Affairs? The fact that they are not even here to discuss and debate their departments’ poor spending trends, indicates how little they care about the taxpayer. They are not even here today to listen to this! Maybe the Speaker should oblige these Ministers to be present when the budget spending debates are held in future.
Minister Manuel collects approximately R29 billion more in taxes – the so- called surplus tax – which he should rather have left in the economy. This when South Africans with their 28,2% rate, pay some of the highest taxes in the world!
Given that the taxpayer is being milked dry as a result, one would expect that the Treasury would allocate funds to departments according to proper business plans. The question is however: what is the Treasury doing to see to it that these funds are accordingly spent effectively?]
There may well be some good news as well. Overall expenditure has improved and capital expenditure has also increased in a number of important areas. But if we do not get our vital delivery departments on track, our government will remain lopsided and so will its performance.
As we have seen on the N2 when approaching Cape Town, there is a limit to the amount of pain our citizens are willing to stand. There is a point at which the smoke-and-mirrors identity politics that the government so loves to engage in, will no longer stop the dissatisfaction of our citizens from being felt by the ANC at the ballot box.
The DA agrees with the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I see it’s the first time that the hon Skosana has taken the Chair, and I hope he will allow me some time for those compliments and not take it off my allotted time.
Chairperson, I must admit right at the outset that I have not had the benefit of attending any of these committee meetings, as I am a new member in the House. I must say that I am looking forward to attending and being a member of the Joint Budget Committee under a very dynamic chairperson.
In fact, when the chairperson addressed the House, you would not say she is from the ruling party. There was no politics involved in what she said. I think it is important that, as members of this Joint Budget Committee, as is the case with Finance and Public Accounts, we do our job without fear of any contradiction. It is our responsibility to ensure that the taxpayers get value for their money and that the respective departments spend their funds effectively and efficiently.
I read the report in detail and welcome the crucial role that this Joint Budget Committee plays in exercising oversight over government spending throughout the course of a financial year. As the chairperson said, this exercise helps to identify shortcomings in budgetary control of certain departments, and early warning systems can be put in place to effect changes in approach.
I’m sure it’s not going to be a very popular committee, but the work has to be done. In particular, what is welcomed is the fact that there will be targeted oversight of certain departments as indicated in the recommendations. We certainly support the recommendations that are contained in the report, but must express some concern with some of the departments.
In fact, one of the concerns relates to capital expenditure. If one looks at page 5 of the report, one will see that the Department of Arts and Culture didn’t spend any money in the first quarter on capital expenditure – well, it’s a small amount – but as regards two departments – Transport and Home Affairs – the committee has expressed serious concern over the fact that they have only spent 0,95% and 33% of their respective budgets.
Now we do know the state of the roads in our country and in many of the provinces. We have heard the hon Minister of Transport say that there aren’t sufficient funds to repair some of the roads for capital works, but then this does not give us a good picture. I’m sure that the Department of Transport must really do something about it.
Another area of concern is the Department of Safety and Security, where we note that they have not spent money on automated vehicle location systems and funding of CPFs and payment for reservists. Once again, the hon Minister of Safety and Security has time and again said in this House that communities need to work with the Department of Safety and Security to ensure that we can keep the criminals at bay. If we don’t empower those communities through funding CPFs and through making sure that there are reservists on the ground that are paid, then we are not going to meet that objective that the hon Minister says should be met by the community out there.
The whole question of vacancies is also a cause for concern. A number of departments are not filling vacant posts. Is it because there is not enough training? Should we not consider a Public Service Academy, run by government, so that people can be trained? Is it a question of not high enough salaries for the people that we are paying in the Public Service? These are things that need to be addressed.
The Department of Home Affairs has announced their turnaround strategy. We do hope that the strategy works, because it is a cause for concern that they are not spending the money and they are not filling vacancies. Under the Head of Department who, I am told, has assured the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs that things will begin to move, we just hope that things will happen.
There is an MTEF budget and departments should use the MTEF. They do not have to wait for the beginning of the year to start deciding what they want to do. So they should be spending in the first quarter of the year. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, may we also, on behalf of the ACDP, congratulate you on your appointment. Whilst spending has continued to improve across government, the ability to spend effectively and produce the desired outcomes remains a challenge. We, in this House, are all aware of the problems facing Home Affairs and the low spending for this quarter suggests that they will again be underspending, which was as you will recall recorded last year, at R206 million or 8%. This would be unacceptable and must be avoided.
It is particularly deplorable that this department and other departments such as Correctional Services failed to respond to the Joint Budget Committee’s queries within the required timeframes. These departments must be held accountable. Portfolio committees need to monitor departmental expenditure on an ongoing basis. The development of “in year monitoring” and “early warning systems” will prevent surprises of over- or underexpenditure at the end of the budgetary year.
The ACDP wishes to commend the Joint Budget Committee on its excellent work and will support the report and urges all Members of Parliament, MPs, to continue monitoring the ongoing expenditure of the departments. Thank you.
Ms R J MASHIGO: Chairperson, I believe if you had been seated up there, my chairperson would definitely have congratulated you. So, I am doing it on her behalf. We also welcome the hon Mr Van Dyk to the Joint Budget Committee, where we work as a collective and look at the issues from the same perspective as our predecessors have done. I am referring to Dr Rabie and the others, but we hope that you’ll join us and look at all these problems from the same perspective.
I am going to speak on the first term report, particularly, based on Home Affairs and Education. A lot has been said about Home Affairs and I’ll also express my disappointment because had they come to the portfolio committee we would have looked at the challenges together and agreed on how to approach them, as Parliament is the one that had sat down here and voted for their budget in accordance with their strategic plan.
We hope that their portfolio committee will do exactly that, because this is a very important committee based on the fact that from birth to death we depend on documentation. We would like to have correct documents to identify us, to have access to all available facilities, which would possibly lead all South Africans to a better life for all.
Their current spending was very dismal as has already been stated, and as our Chairperson has already mentioned the fact that this is one of the issues of capacity that will be attended to by the committee, I won’t repeat it. But, we really feel that this department should do something in order to make sure that people live with dignity and respect.
Their capital expenditure was also very bad, based on the fact that they did what was called “repair and maintenance” during the first phase. They were supposed to do the same in the second phase, which they mentioned was affected by tenders, but we hope that they will do something about it in January, as they had promised. Our regular contact with them will help us understand their problems, as we can see that they have problems.
Capital spending is really important in that department. Control borders should be upgraded. That should be started with right now, that is the upgrading of facilities and putting in of relevant machinery, so that by 2010 we won’t have problems in controlling the influx of people who will be coming here from neighbouring countries to watch their favourite teams.
I have already mentioned documentation, because there is a lot of fraud. There are lots of fraudulent marriages and poor services in that department. We would have appreciated it if the department had come to us and addressed the issue of the Home Affairs National Identification System, Hanis, which is a good tool to monitor and improve the services from the department, as it is going to co-ordinate all the documentation and details of the people who are South African citizens as well as all those who are visitors and even monitor and assist in the benefits of those people who interact with government.
We hope that the new director-general, who we all know is committed, whose commitment we have all seen, will do something about this department, and we hope that their audited report will be unqualified.
I would like to state that 5,4% of our gross domestic product, GDP, goes towards education, which is very good and shows that our government has realised the importance of education in the economic development of our country, and 95,41% of all the transfers from the national department are being transferred to higher education, public entities and the provinces.
The provinces get their allocation from the National Revenue Fund through two channels. Their allocation is through the transfer of equitable shares, which are not conditional grants. They are actually given for specific purposes and will have to be used in accordance with the grants as prescribed by the National Treasury. The amount of these transfers to provinces for the financial year is R202,8 billion. The provincial education expenditure is R88 billion. On top of that we also have provincial infrastructure grants which, among others, fast-track the school buildings’ infrastructure.
If we look at the capital spending of our departments, we will see that something needs to be done because, according to the state of the nation address last year, our President mentioned that no child must be taught under trees. Our question is: Do we still have children being taught under trees? Is there correct transportation for children? Do we also have proper sanitation and water at the schools? I don’t think we have. We should look into that in conjunction with the provinces because they are the ones that have been given all this funding, and they have the power to do everything.
Our National Treasury is not excluded, because as I have already stated there are conditions and they have to do their monitoring. We know that when it comes to these equitable shares the departments might have some differences when they don’t want to account, but the National Treasury as a national department has to do something to make them accountable for the sake of proper education and accessibility to education.
I’ll also like to mention that in the current spending we know that to have children educated we should have educators, and these educators have to be present every day of the school year, but really, is it proper for the Department of Education only to spend a small amount of money in their current expenditure because what they spent was R87 million in the first quarter, which when it is related to the capacity that goes to school every day, indicates that something is not being accounted for. I think our department must take that into account.
Do our schools have libraries? Do they have laboratories? I don’t think they do.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Mohlompehi, Mme Mashigo nako ya hao e fedile. [Hon Mashigo, your time has expired.]
Mme R J MASHIGO: Nako e tsamaile? Ke ne ke ise ke bue ka thuto e kgolwane, fela le tla buisa tsebe 244 ya Tekanyetso ya Madi a Bosetšhaba [Estimated National Expenditure] gore le tlhaloganye gore dilo tse re buang ka tsona ke dife. Nako e fedile, salang sentle. [Nako e fedile.] (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Ms R J MASHIGO: Has my time expired? I have not even started talking about higher education, but you may read on page 244 of the Estimated National Expenditure so that you can have a better understanding of the things that we are talking about. My time has expired, goodbye. [Time expired.]].
Mr B E PULE: Chairperson, spending trends in government departments have always been a serious challenge. Poor spending has always been attributed to lack of skills and capacity, and this cannot be allowed to go on. The establishment of the Joint Budget Committee has therefore been a very wise decision. It is of great concern to note that the Departments of Arts and Culture, Transport and Home Affairs, Parliament and the Department of Minerals and Energy have the lowest spending on their capital expenditure. Parliament and the Department of Transport appear under lowest spending on both capital and current expenditure.
The high rate of vacancies that cuts across almost all government departments also has a share in the underspending. Departments are advised to take this very seriously. Many of our graduates are roaming the streets. The departments should consider the advisability of in-service training.
It would not be acceptable for Parliament to exercise oversight when its own institution is a culprit in spending trends. It must be seen to be exemplary. For those departments with the highest spending … [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chair, I also congratulate you on your appointment.
The MF is pleased to note that spending has improved across government. However, it would be most gratifying if we were able to achieve the effective spending required to produce results. We agree with the committee that regular oversight and reporting by departments can assist in addressing this long-overdue shortfall.
The MF is discouraged by departments who require this assistance, and have an inability to respond within required timeframes. This inefficiency strains our attempts to improve this situation. With poverty, unemployment and a skills shortage being some of our major challenges, and with countries like the United Kingdom headhunting our professionals at double the salary, we can’t afford this.
We need to seriously address the human resource challenges in our departments’ planning of our resource sectors. The MF suggests that the committee’s recommendations be given serious consideration and be implemented. The MF supports the Joint Budget Committee first quarter report. I thank you.
Mr Y WANG: Hon Chairperson, I also want to congratulate you on your new appointment.
Hon members, today, as was pointed out by the hon Mabe earlier, I would like to zoom in on two of those departments that the committee expressed concern over regarding their spending in the first quarter, namely the Department of Public Enterprises and the Department of Safety and Security.
Before I get to Public Enterprises, to celebrate our heritage month, I have decided to deliver part of my speech in Mandarin. Yes, it’s not an official language in South Africa but it’s a language I’ve proudly inherited. In case you have not noticed, I am of Chinese descent. So, Public Enterprises …
[… the Department of Public Enterprises has jurisdiction over the affairs and performance of state-owned enterprises. It aims to provide an effective shareholder management system, where the department acts as the shareholder representative of government, while ensuring the state-owned enterprises are commercially viable and contribute to the growth of the country’s economy. Furthermore, the department ensures that SOE business strategies are aligned with our sector departmental policies and regulatory frameworks.]
Channel one will be in English. You can test if your device is working.
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[pic] (Translation of Mandarin paragraphs follows.)
[To carry out its mandate, the department’s budget for 2007-08 was R1,064 billion. By the end of the first quarter, they have spent R1,052 billion, or 98,84% to be exact. The main item included in this amount was the Transfer Expenditure of R1,025 billion, where R400 million was allocated for Denel and R625 million for the pebble bed modular reactor. An over- transfer of approximately R500 million was also noted.
The committee stresses that further funding requests are also expected during the remainder of this financial year, in addition to the special appropriation allocated to Denel, PBMR, and Alexkor yesterday in the House. If approved, it is understood that these SOEs are likely to be funded from the R3 billion set aside as a contingency reserve in the national Budget.
Parliament and the committee also noted the performance and sustainability of certain enterprises on a number of occasions. The committee therefore agreed to seek additional clarity on the apparent deviation from approved drawings on the National Revenue Fund, the potential use of contingency funds to support the SOEs and the question of how transferred funds are best monitored during the year.]
Coming to the Department of Safety and Security, the key strategic priorities of the SA Police Service are to combat organised crime, violent crime, prevent crime against women and children, and improve the general services of the SAPS. Of course, the department also plays a critical role in providing security for the hosting of the 2010 World Cup.
In the first quarter, R7,7 billion, or 21,47%, of its total budget of R36 billion was spent, of which R7,4 billion was current expenditure, namely personnel costs and the procurement of goods and services. The department explained that the lowest spending in the first quarter was influenced by the annual cost of living adjustments that normally occur in July. Hence personnel expenditure is expected to go back to normal during the year.
Now, for budgets allocated on capital assets, R217 million, or 11%, of the allocated R2 billion for the year, was spent in the first quarter. The department explained that the slow spending was mainly due to more than 50% of the capital assets being for purchasing of vehicles for which payments and delivery are expected only later in the year.
While the department has generally managed to spend its budget according to its projections, the committee nevertheless identified a few areas affecting its spending. The areas of budgetary concern requiring further examination include the payments for reservists, the implementation of the automated vehicle location system and the expansion of the funding of the community police forums.
Lastly, in order to tackle the effective monitoring of budget spending, especially on the transfer expenditures, the committee wishes to stress again that all departments and state-owned enterprises receiving transfers, in particular, must submit the cash flow projections to the National Treasury and to Parliament so that the relevant portfolio committee and Joint Budget Committee can monitor and measure the spending pattern more accurately.
I hope you’ve enjoyed your heritage as much as I did. Special thanks go to my interpreter, Ms Ellen Chu, sitting in the interpreting booth. I thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): The hon Wang has introduced a twelfth language! It’s quite a challenge.
Ms B N DAMBUZA: Modulasetulo [Chairperson], hon members and guests – if they are still there - this report serves to unpack government expenditure during the first quarter of the current fiscal period. As part of the joint budget mandate, it is required that departments constantly monitor whether their spending is in line with their expenditure plans in order to accomplish government’s objectives and report to Parliament on a quarterly basis.
For the Joint Budget Committee - JBC - to successfully effect its mandate, they should adhere to in-year monitoring and evaluation practices. This tool helps to pick up possible over or under expenditure, to detect deviations, especially where planned expenditure is not consistent with what actually transpired, and mostly gives an opportunity for specific interventions and to take corrective action to overcome challenges of fiscal dumping at the end of the financial year.
This time around, it has been observed that some departments have encountered a challenge in managing their allocations as planned. Amongst them are the Department of Transport and the Department of Housing. The Department of Transport has a fundamental responsibility of ensuring that it improves transport infrastructure and leverages it as a catalyst for economic growth, poverty alleviation and social cohesion. To date, the department has spent 20,75%, which translates into R3,3 billion of its total budget, and that is a concern, as the expenditure benchmark is 25% per quarter. This effectively means that the department has underspent. This is even more of a concern because of the underspending of approximately R380 million by the department in the previous year.
In addition, the department spent 11,81% and 9,5% of its current budget and capital budget respectively during the quarter. The department spent 6,21% of the allocated budget on personnel. This is R45 million less than what the department projected. In addition to that, 9,65% of the annual budget for goods and services was spent. This is also R79 million less than what was projected.
It is indicated that there are a number of vacant posts due to the restructuring of the department as well as the high number of resignations in the past financial year. It would be critical to get more clarity as to what the restructuring entails and how it will impact on expenditure as well as where the resignations are taking place or at what level of the staff complement.
The goal of the Department of Housing is to meet housing needs by providing integrated human settlements and to clear shacks by 2014. In this context, the department recorded an expenditure of R1,5 billion which translates into 16,97% of its total budget during the first quarter. This translates into R300 million less than the amount stated on the approved drawings of the National Revenue Fund. With regard to current expenditure, the department’s performance is as follows: On programme 1, which is administration, an expenditure of R23,2 million, which translates into 20% of the allocated R116,4 million, was noted. The department underspent by R2,3 million of the R25,4 million drawn for this period. This was attributed to the ordering of goods and services for which delivery invoices remained pending.
On programme 2, which is housing, policy research and planning, an expenditure of R4,5 million or 5% of the allocated R90 million, with a reflection of 3% on goods and services and 8% on the compensation of employees, was attributed to a delay in the service level agreements with Seta. Whilst noting the explanation given, the committee registered a particular concern with the delays in the finalisation of payment, which reflects a weakness in project and financial management.
We have noted in capital expenditure on programme 2 that 5% of the total budget was spent, showing 7% less on both equipment and software. Programme 4 reflected a zero spending on equipment and software. Programme 3 and 4 reflected 10% and 17%.
It must be noted on Housing Implementation Support that the department spent R15,5 million or 10% of the allocated R147,9 million. This was reported as a consequence of the slow implementation of accreditation on municipalities’ projects. The department indicated that expenditure was expected to accelerate during the year as the necessary business plans were received, reviewed and approved.
When reflecting on housing expenditure, it should be noted that 98,1% of the department’s budget of R8,5 billion was appropriated to programme 4 – that is housing development finance - where the integrated housing and human settlement grant of the operational budget for the various public entities is allocated. Of this, R1,4 billion or 17% was spent during the period under review. The department indicated that this was in line with the projected expenditure, with the transfer of funds to provinces based on inputs received from different provincial governments and project life cycles.
Regarding the monitoring of transfer funds, the department indicated that together with meeting the prescripts of the Division of Revenue Act, it assisted and visited provincial departments to review expenditure. Given the fact that the department under-spent its budget by R171 million or 2,3% at the end of the previous financial year, the portfolio committee agreed to continuously engage the department. We all have a collective responsibility to ensure improved service delivery to our people.
Xa ndisithi sonke ndithetha thina bongameleyo kunye nabo benza umsebenzi ngokwabo. [When I say all of us I mean those who are in charge and those who actually do the work.]
We all have a collective responsibility to address issues related to ICT capacity, compensation of employees and lack of infrastructure within the department.
In conclusion, the portfolio committee acknowledges and appreciates the improvement in the housing subsidy and the significant increase in the delivery of housing units by the ANC-led government.
The ANC adopts the report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to. Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SAFETY AND SECURITY – NOTIFICATION BY PRESIDENT IRO ENTITIES INDENTIFIED BY UN SECURITY COUNCIL IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 25 OF ACT 33 OF 2004
Ms M M SOTYU: I thank you Chair. Chairperson, South Africa is a signatory to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1267 of 1999 and related resolutions. In 2004 South Africa enacted its international and regional obligations through the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, Act 33 of 2004. This embodied in law all conventions, protocols and obligations pertaining to terrorist activities.
The Protection of Constitutional Democracy Act, as it is known in short, provides for a critical role for Parliament. This role is a supervisory one. This role will become even more involved should the list of terrorist organisations published by the United Nations Security Council include or directly affect South African citizens or organisations.
Section 25 of Act 33 of 2004 determines that the President must, by proclamation in the Gazette, and other appropriate means of publication, give notice that the Security Council of the United Nations … has identified a specific entity as being (a) an entity who commits, or attempts to commit, any terrorist and related activity … or (b) an entity against whom Member States of the United Nations must take specified actions.
This information is then distributed as determined in the Act, for example through the financial intelligence centre to banks and other financial institutions. Relevant state departments, such as Home Affairs, are also informed or provided with a list of undesirable or prohibited persons.
Implementation, compliance and monitoring take place through an inter- departmental counter-terrorism working group, chaired by the Department of Foreign Affairs. All relevant departments and the financial intelligence centre and the Reserve Bank are represented in this group.
The Committee for Safety and Security therefore recommends to Parliament that the report be adopted in terms of section 26 of Act 33 of 2004. I thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT - OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KGALAGADI, ALEXANDRA AND MALUTI-A-PHOFUNG NODAL MUNICIPALITIES, AND INTERNATIONAL OVERSIGHT VISIT TO KERALA, INDIA
Mr S L TSENOLI: Chairperson, thank you and congratulations on the seat you are occupying there behind me. We welcome your presence there. Chairperson, this report on our oversight visit to these three areas was an attempt on our part to look at the integrated sustainable rural development programme as well as the urban renewal programme and their implementation in those three specific areas.
This is an important presidential project and we thought it was crucial for us to look at what’s coming out of there. The report could be better. We would like to acknowledge that from the outset, with regard to the way in which it is presented, but we think the observations we made there are crucial. One of these is that we would like to see improved intergovernmental relations in the implementation of those two programmes.
We also noticed a very interesting and useful experience in Alexandra. There is a co-ordinated approach inside that area, where a single office has been established for all departments and officials. The timeframes were brought down dramatically and the turnaround times for doing things were speeded up dramatically, suggesting that in fact it is doable - it is possible to speed up the delivery of services.
We were also pleasantly surprised by the number of projects that were in various stages of implementation but obviously the question of consultation, or rather effective communication, was raised as an issue. We were given the assurance by councillors that we met, including forums from inside the community, that indeed there are regular meetings but because of the nature of the area and the continual arrival of people in the area, there are problems with the newness of people coming in, people missing meetings and soon. Our emphasis is on the fact that we need to intensify our communication and the involvement of people in these issues.
Most importantly, we observed that the absence significant involvement by other departments of those areas was a major hindrance, in other words not all departments had a presence in those areas as is required, firstly, by the integrated development plans and also because these are presidential nodes. We would have thought that people would have seen this as a crucial area to be involved in, because it was and still is meant to provide the lesson of government working together in an integrated fashion. This was the significance of those areas and of intergovernmental relations.
Another significant observation, if we may share this, relates to the relationship between the local municipality and district, such as in Maluti- A-Phofung. Where there is tension and there is a problem, we are convinced that things will not work as harmoniously as we expect them to. We would have liked to have seen better a relationship there, and this, of course, obviously includes our concern with the turnover of senior management in municipalities. This is a concern for us in Maluti-A-Phofung and we thought that this is an important area to look at.
Clearly, we only went to three areas. It was clear, in briefings that we received subsequent to this oversight visit, that some of the observations we were making could be applied across the board. There are departments, if I may give one example, the DTI, that really need to increase the pace and speed at which they get involved in those areas. Where we saw it coming in, even if it was late in Kgalagadi, the difference it made was very significant and crucial. In other areas we would like to see them getting more involved as well.
If I may move to the next report, Chairperson. The visit to Kerala in India was significant for two reasons. Firstly, public participation is at the heart of our governance system in the country, and it is in the Constitution, but also it is the basis on which this country was liberated. It was very clear to us in the study group that when you speak about service delivery, one of the prominent issues is how effective our public participation systems are on the ground and how they are being experienced by the public. India, in particular Kerala, which is in the South of India, has a history and a reputation in this area that we felt contained lessons for us that are crucial, that we could learn from and integrate in our practices and indeed some of the observations we made there were very interesting.
Just to make one significant point about this visit, before we left for India we also searched around and found that the Portfolio Committee on Social Development had actually visited the area. As part of our briefing going there we integrated some of their report, whose observations around poverty eradication strategies, underpinned by very significant people involvement, we incorporated because we had confirmed them.
One of the highlights of our observations there was the deliberateness of political mobilisation of communities to be involved, and this is what determined the success of this public participation involvement. In other words, it does not matter what the law says or what it does not say, if people are not mobilised, it’s not going to work. That is a very significant observation.
The other very interesting observation was that the three spheres of government played a very significant role. The constitutional amendment allowed for devolution but only certain states took advantage of that and Kerala is one of them. They devolved not only funds but functionaries as well as functions to municipalities. So you had important work being done by a local municipality at a local level, with officials from higher levels of government, operating under the political leadership of the councils. People’s views, their contributions and their management of their development were seen as very important and illustrated the work that has been done there.
We are quite aware that places like Kerala in India, as we were advised by some of the people who were involved in the design of the system of public participation, have a long history of political work with high levels of literacy, which make the quality of involvement very significant. This makes a difference, because people recognise that they are making a difference if they control money and budgets directly. It enables them to see the significance of coming back, because they can see the result of their work. If changes are to be made, for example, it requires the agreement of the people who are involved with the projects that have been designed for development in those areas.
Members, this report is not only significant for what it recommends but also for the observations that we make. The comparisons that are made are very significant ones and I think we have a lot to learn. One of the things we recommend from a skills experience point of view is the Kerala institute of administration, which has a long history of capacity-building for both councillors and officials, in a number of languages spoken in the area.
This question of language, members, is a critical one. It’s clear that we can’t claim democratic practice if all the work we do is only in one language and not in the language of the people who live in the area. So, in capacity-building initiatives, what we would like to see illustrated is that language is an important tool.
The quality of developmental processes was impressive and we think we have some interesting lessons that we have learned which we can adopt as we go along. Obviously our own experience is useful here. It reinforced some of our own practices in our country, showing that we were on the right course. Generally that report is very useful for that and other reasons when you go through it, in that we incorporated a lot of other material that was useful.
We enjoyed good treatment by our embassy there. We met some of the products of Asgisa who have been trained there and the connections were very useful. We appreciated that visit a lot and we hope that in future, sharing our experiences with other committees, we can benefit a lot. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:
That the Reports be adopted. Motion agreed to.
Report of Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government - Oversight visit to Kgalagadi, Alexandra and Maluti-A-Phofung Nodal Municipalities accordingly adopted.
Report of Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government - International Oversight Visit to Kerala, India accordingly adopted.
Consideration of report of constitutional review committee – anD CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE – ANNUAL report
Dr E A SCHOEMAN: Hon Chairperson, you have been well inducted into your new seat but I would like to add my voice of welcome to you.
Two reports emanating from the Joint Constitutional Review Committee have been tabled – the ATC Report of 13 June 2007 and the ATC Report of 28 June 2007.
Allow me to deal with these reports separately. The first report pertains to a request by Mr Bruno Druchen, the National Director of Deaf South Africa, which was received in October 2006. I might add that Mr Druchen is the husband of our esteemed parliamentarian, hon Wilma Newhoudt-Druchen.
He indicated that his organisation would like to address the committee on the possibility of the constitutional recognition of South African sign language as the 12th official language, as it is the primary means of communication for approximately 500 000 deaf or partially deaf people in South Africa. If their immediate families are included, at least 1,5 million people communicate by means of South African sign language on a regular basis.
After listening to the representation of deaf South Africans and on receiving a comprehensive additional written submission which dealt extensively with questions from the committee, the Joint Constitutional Review Committee came to the following conclusions: Firstly, that the status quo is unacceptable and discriminatory. Secondly, that the committee recognises that if South African sign language were to be accommodated as the 12th official language this would have significant logistical and budgetary implications which would have to be investigated.
Thirdly, that the committee accordingly requests the Minister in The Presidency to consider convening a task team, in conjunction with the Minister of Arts and Culture and the Minister of Education, to investigate this matter. Fourthly, that the committee urges the Pan South African Language Board to give effect to the instruction in section 6(5)(a)(iii) of the Constitution to promote South African sign language.
During the deliberations it became apparent that PanSALB had not acceded to this instruction. It is imperative that it reports back to Parliament regarding this matter. As a representative of the people we have a duty to provide for the need for a just and equitable society, especially for those who are less fortunate and disabled in some way.
By adopting this report we are sending a clear message to those compatriots who are contributing so much towards our national heritage that we will always support their just calls for recognition. I therefore have no hesitation in recommending the adoption of this report.
The Annual Report of the Joint Constitutional Review Committee was tabled on 27 June. It is self-explanatory, if read in conjunction with the 2006 review report – the ATC Report of 13th November 2006 - and the recommendation regarding the convergence of electronic media - the ATC report of 21 June 2006.
The report serves as a fair reflection of the activities of the Joint Constitutional Review Committee in 2006. Allow me, as the former Chairperson of the Joint Constitutional Review Committee, to express my appreciation to all the members who so diligently served on this committee as well as the support staff. I also urge them to give the incoming Chairperson, the hon Dan Montsitsi, the same support. Accordingly, I would also recommend the adoption of this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:
That the Reports be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report of Constitutional Review Committee accordingly adopted.
Report of Constitutional Review Committee – Annual Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF ACCESSION TO
FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATION ON RESEARCH AND
DEVELOPMENT OF GENERATION IV NUCLEAR ENERGY SYSTEMS
Mnu E N MTHETHWA: Mphathisihlalo, Musi kaMhlanga, lesi sivumelwano esihlangene ngaso namhlanje siphathelene nezindaba zokucubungula futhi kuthuthukiswe ezenuzi kulokhu okwaziwa ngesizukulwane sesine. Isivumelwano senziwe zingama-28 Nhlolanja 2005 senziwa amazwe amahlanu okuyiMelika, iNgilandi, i-Japan, i-France ne-Canada.
UMnyango Wezokuthuthukiswa Komthethosisekelo Nobulungiswa kanye noMnyango Wezangaphandle bakuqinisekisile ukuthi akukho ukungqubuzana phakathi komthetho wezwe nalowo womhlaba wonkana kulo mkhakha. Uhulumeni wezwe lakithi uye wasayinda lesi sivumelwano mhla zingama-28 Ndasa 2007 waphinda uhulumeni wavuma ukuthi uMnyango Wezokumbiwa Phansi Namandla yiwo ozoba sekhaleni kulo mkhakha.
Lo Mnyango kuthiwa uzodinga izinkulungwane ezingama-62 zamaYuro njalo ngonyaka kusukela onyakeni wezimali ka-2007-2008 ukukhokhela izindleko zokulawulwa kwesithangami somhlaba kwezenuzi. Isahluko sama-231 soMthethosisekelo wezwe laseNingizimu Afrika owamiswa ngonyaka ka-1996 sibeka ukuthi emveni kokwemukelwa kwezivumelwano ezifana nalezi uhulumeni, nePhalamende nalo kumele lithole ithuba elifana naleli. Kungakho sinxusa iPhalamende ukuthi livumelane nathi ekutheni asiwuthathe lo mthetho. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Mr E N MTHETHWA: Chairperson, Musi kaMhlanga, the agreement about which we are gathered here today concerns issues regarding research and the development of nuclear energy in the so-called Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems. The agreement was entered into on 28 February 2005 by five countries, namely America, England, Japan, France and Canada.
The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development as well as the Department of Foreign Affairs have confirmed that there is no conflict between the country’s law and that of the international community in this regard. The government of our country signed this agreement on 28 March 2007 and has also agreed that the Department of Minerals and Energy will lead this process.
It is said that this department will need an amount of 62 000 Euros every year as from the 2007-08 financial year to finance the management of the Generation IV International Forum. Chapter 231 of the South African Constitution of 1996 states that after the acceptance of such agreements by government Parliament should also get the same opportunity. That is why we ask Parliament to concur with us regarding this law. Thank you. [Applause.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Are there any objections to the approval by Parliament of the Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems? No objections.
Agreed to.
Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation in Nuclear Energy Systems approved.
The House adjourned at 17:48. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Bill passed by Houses– to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 13 September
2007:
(a) National Sport and Recreation Amendment Bill [B 17B – 2006]
(National Assembly – sec 75)
- Translation of Bill submitted
(1) The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
(a) Wysigingswetsontwerp op die Strafreg (Vonnisoplegging) [W
15 – 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75).
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Criminal
Law (Sentencing) Amendment Bill [B 15 – 2007] (National Assembly –
proposed sec 75), as introduced in Parliament.
National Assembly
- Membership of Committees
(a) Ms P Tshwete has been elected as Chairperson of the Ad Hoc
Committee on the Nomination of Persons to fill the vacancies on
the Commission on Gender Equality with effect from 12 September
2007.
(b) Ms T V Tobias has been elected as Chairperson of the Portfolio
Committee on Public Works in absentia, with effect from 12
September 2007.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Safety and Security
(a) Report of the National Commissioner of the South African Police
Service (SAPS) for the period 1 January 2007 to 30 June 2007, in
terms of section 18(5)(d) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998 (Act
No 116 of 1998).
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Housing on the Rental Housing Amendment Bill [B 30 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76), dated 12 September 2007: The Portfolio Committee on Housing, having considered the subject of the Rental Housing Amendment Bill [B 30 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 30A – 2007].
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy
An error occurred on the report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals
and Energy under the entry Committee Reports, published in the
Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports dated 12 September 2007.
In the first line of the second paragraph of the actual report it reads
the “Select Committee on Minerals and Energy” instead of “Portfolio
Committee on Minerals and Energy”. The following is the correct report:
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy on the
Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International
Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation IV Nuclear
Energy Systems, dated 12 September 2007:
The Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, having
considered the request for approval by Parliament of the
Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International
Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation IV
Nuclear Energy Systems, recommends that the House, in terms of
section 231 (2) of the Constitution, approve the said
Agreement.
Request to be considered.