National Council of Provinces - 13 September 2007
THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2007 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:02.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
WELCOMING OF MINISTERS AND MECS
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon members, I would like to welcome the hon M Stofile, Minister of Sport and Recreation, to the House. You are welcome, hon Minister, and everybody else from the provinces
-
MECs, you are all welcome in the House today.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Me H LAMOELA: Voorsitter, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad –
1) dit betreurenswaardig vind om van professor Bongani Mayosi te
verneem dat, weens tekorte in die Wes-Kaap se gesondheidsbegroting
–
a) Groote Schuur Hospitaal nou slegs 5 in plaas van 14
hartverwante operasies per week kan uitvoer;
b) die aantal ortopedies-verwante operasies van 46 tot 17 per
week afgeneem het;
c) die wagtydperk vir ’n gewrigsvervanging nou tot drie en ’n
half maande duur, met ongeveer 700 mense reeds op die waglys;
en
d) Groote Schuur Hospitaal tussen 1999 en 2000 40% van hul
professionele personeel verloor het; en
2) kennis neem dat, omdat hierdie omstandighede in ons hospitale die
grondwetlike reg van diegene wat gesondheidsorg benodig erg
benadeel, die Demokratiese Alliansie ’n beroep doen op die
provinsiale LUR verantwoordelik vir gesondheid om daadwerklike
aandag aan hierdie probleem te skenk sodat die moraal van
gesondheidspersoneel en ook dié van pasiënte verbeter kan word en
hulle hul reg op goeie gesondheidsorg kan uitoefen.
(Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Ms H LAMOELA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House, I shall move:
That the Council –
1) finds it deplorable to hear from Professor Bongani Mayosi that,
because of shortages in the health budget of the Western Cape -
a) Groote Schuur Hospital can now only perform five heart-related
operations per week, instead of 14;
b) the number of orthopedic-related operations has been reduced
from 46 to 17 per week;
c) the waiting period for a joint replacement is now up to 3½
months, with about 700 people already on the waiting list; and
d) Groote Schuur Hospital lost 40% of its professional staff
between 1999 and 2000; and
2) notes that, because these circumstances in our hospitals seriously
impair the constitutional right of those who require health care,
the Democratic Alliance calls upon the provincial MEC responsible
for health to give active attention to this problem so that the
morale of health staff and also of patients can be improved and so
that they can exercise their right to proper health care.]
Thank you.
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the Council –
1) notes with shock and horror that a 26-year-old man, Paul
Mokgomane Mofokeng, has admitted that he had repeatedly raped a
six-year-old girl from Mofolo in Soweto;
2) further notes that he lured the girl away from her friends by
telling her that her mother had sent him to take her to the doctor;
3) realises that children are amongst the most vulnerable members of
our society, and they look to adults for protection and guidance;
and
4) hopes that this cruel, sick man feels the full might of the law and
is handed the maximum allowable sentence, as he does not belong in
society.
MURDER OF THREE CHILDREN BY THEIR FATHER IN MSINGA
(Draft Resolution)
Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, ngiphakamisa ngaphandle kwesaziso:
Ukuthi lo Mkhandlu -
(1) uzwakalisa ukushaqeka okukhulu nokujabha -
(a) ngalolu dlame oluqondiswe kwabesifazane nezingane,
okunokuba ludambe, luyadlondlobala;
(b) ngokuzwa ngowesilisa waseMsinga, KwaZulu-Natali, ogence
izingane zakhe ezintathu zafa, kwathi eyesine nonina basinda
ngokulambisa ngenxa engxabano yasendlini;
(2) uthi kubo bonke abesilisa abasaqhuba lolu dlame: sekwanele ukuchitheka kwegazi kubantu abangafanele, lokhu kube kwenziwe uyise nokwenza;
(3) udlulisa ukuzwelana nalowo wesifazane nengane abaphunyukile kulesi sigameko, nokuzwelana nomndeni nezihlobo kanye nabo bonke abasondelene nabo; futhi
4) uyethemba ukuthi ingalo yomthetho izoqina ekusingatheni lolu daba,
ukuze kuphephe imindeni. (Translation of isiZulu draft resolution follows.)
[Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its shock and disappointment -
(a) concerning violence directed at women and children, which
is escalating instead of abating; and
(b) at learning about a man from Msinga, KwaZulu-Natal, who
hacked his three children to death while a fourth child and
her mother managed to escape, following a domestic dispute;
(2) says to all males who perpetrate this violence: enough blood of innocents has been spilt, noting that this has been done by a father to his own children;
(3) conveys its sympathies to the woman and her child who managed to escape, and also to the family, friends and all those who are close to the family; and
(4) believes that the law will be very strict in dealing with this matter, in order to ensure that families are safe.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
30TH ANNIVERSARY OF STEVE BIKO’S DEATH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) acknowledges the 30th anniversary of Mr Biko’s cruel death at the hands of the apartheid government, and acknowledges that he paid with his life in his fight for our liberation; and
2) notes that the UIF salutes his memory.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DEATH OF SIX CHILDREN FROM TRIOMF AND SANCTOR PRIMARY SCHOOLS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes with profound sadness the passing away of six children from the Triomf and Sanctor Primary Schools in Port Elizabeth;
(2) further notes that the loss of such young lives in a motor accident is something that our country cannot afford; and
(3) expresses its sympathy to the parents of these children as well as the wider community.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
RECOGNITION OF ACHIEVEMENTS OF EMERGING AND BLACK-OWNED SA COMPANIES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council notes -
(1) with excitement and appreciation the inspiring observations that are continuously made by some of the world’s organisations on certain highlights that confirm the translation of our democracy into real qualitative freedom;
2) that recently, at the World Economic Forum’s Inaugural Annual
Meeting of the New Champions, held in the city of Dalian, People’s
Republic of China, from 6 to 8 September 2007, the achievements of
the emerging and black-owned South African companies such as
Sekunjalo Investments Limited, SIL, were recognised, and that, even
beyond this recognition of the achievements of the companies, South
Africa was recognised as a source of innovative and dynamically
growing entities;
3) that in his address, the Premier of the People’s Republic of China,
Mr Wen Jiabao said: “... the new champions are the new forces in the
changing world environment”. It is therefore fascinating to realise
the participation of South Africa’s emerging and black companies in
those forces that are changing the world environment; and
4) that Sekunjalo Investments Limited, SIL, is a Black-controlled
Investments Holding Company, established in 1997 and listed on the
JSE Limited in 1999, with offices in South Africa, Mauritius, the UK
and Nambia.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO ZIMBABWEAN CRICKET TEAM AND PROTEAS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) takes note of and congratulates the Zimbabwean cricket team on their historic victory over Australia last night at Newlands; and
2) congratulates the Proteas on their victory over the West Indies in
the opening match of the T20 Cricket World Cup.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO SPRINGBOKS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T S RALANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Bokke and wishes them well in their next match against England; and
2) acknowledges that it does look like we are on track in terms of
returning that World Cup to the country.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
LEAVE OF ABSENCE FOR HON B N DLULANE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the Council, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 17(1) of the Rules of the National Council of Provinces, grants hon B N Dlulane leave of absence from proceedings of both the Council and committees of the Council in terms of Rule 17(2) until the hon member has recovered to resume duty.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): As there is no speakers’ list, we shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Gauteng?
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal iyavuma. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo ondersteun. [Limpopo supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Re a dumelana. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUSPENSION OF RULE 239(1) WITH RESPECT TO THE CONSIDERATION OF THE TRADITIONAL HEALTH PRACTITIONERS BILL AND THE CHOICE ON TERMINATION OF
PREGNANCY AMENDMENT BILL
(Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Sihlalo, ngitsandza kubonga ngalelitfuba. [Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity.]
I now move the motion as printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:
That Rule 239(1), which provides inter alia that the consideration of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee’s report was tabled, be suspended for the purposes of conducting the consideration of the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill [B 20 – 2007] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76(2)) and the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill [B 21 – 2007] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76(2)) on Thursday, 20 September 2007.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): As there is no speakers’ list, we shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape iyayixhasa. [Eastern Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Gauteng?
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Ke ya rona. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Stem saam. [Agrees.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
NATIONAL SPORT AND RECREATION AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, first of all I want to associate myself fully with the motion congratulating Zimbabwe on not just beating but smashing Australia in the T20 series under way right now. This is precisely how things should be when the tables are turned against those who take things for granted. I am saying this in the light of the Australian captain’s excuse that they had not played cricket since the previous World Cup. It is their own fault; they can’t blame anybody else for it.
Thank you very much, Chairperson, for affording me the opportunity to present this Bill to the NCOP. We sit in this House today after a week during which we learnt with great sadness of the deaths of national football assets of both South Africa and Mozambique. Mamelodi Sundowns lost Gift Leremi and Black Leopards lost Fernando Matola. I am sure we all associate ourselves with the grieving Leremi and Matola families.
On the playing field, the past weekend showed how far our national teams still are from conquering our own continent, let alone the world. An exception can perhaps be made for cricket in this respect, due to the way we smashed the West Indies by nine wickets in the T20 match.
But the same cannot be said of Bafana Bafana. Nor can it be said of Amaglug- glug. The situation calls for our intervention and no matter how our intervention is interpreted, intervene we must. This is exactly what our communities have said during the hearings on this Bill. This is what this Bill is also trying to do – to empower us to come in and assist where necessary.
The Bill is intended to amend the National Sport and Recreation Act of 1998 to align its contents with the new government structures for sport in this country. It provides for the removal of the SA Sports Commission, the National Olympic Committee of South Africa, and other structures that have been closed down, and to recognise the Sports Confederation as the only nongovernmental macrostructure for sport in South Africa. This is in line with our dissolution of those organisations in 2005.
One of the most important shortcomings in the governance of sport in this country has always been the fact that, while the Minister of Sport and Recreation has been given the responsibility for sport and recreation, he or she did not have the authority to carry out this responsibility.
To date the Minister of Sport and Recreation had to depend on the goodwill and support of federations to carry out this responsibility. The amending Bill is firmly rooted in the spirit of our Constitution, especially the founding principles of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.
As such, the Bill provides a fulcrum on which transformation of sport should stand. Our mass participation programmes, school sport and club development programmes, as well as living federations, provide the proverbial “rod” to move the world. The objective and end-product will be quality teams that reflect our national diversity, cohesion and pride.
I am proud to present this amending Bill a few days after returning from eMnambithi and eThekwini. At eMnambithi we witnessed over 400 children participating in development programmes in the School Mass Participation Programme of that province for the district of uKhahlamba.
We were also pleasantly surprised at eThekwini to witness 500 Zulu and coloured boys participating in the Sharks rugby development programme. That was in response to what we said in May 2004, that the quotas did not assist us to change the demographics of our sport in this country.
What should do the trick is what we called at that stage the “catch-up” programme, or “regstellende aksie” - whatever you want to call it - where the resources and efforts are placed with those communities that have always been excluded. The aim is to make them accessible and assist them to catch up with those that have always been in the forefront. I saw this in action over the past weekend.
This Bill seeks to give the Minister powers to intervene in any dispute, alleged mismanagement or any other related matter in sport and recreation which is likely to bring sport and recreational activity into disrepute.
Over the past three years members of the two Houses have inundated our offices with questions about what happened to the Motimele Commission, what happened to the Pickard Judicial Commission, what happened to this and that other operation, but they forget that we do not have the legislative tools to pursue whatever those commissions have recommended or whatever findings have come out of those commissions. This Bill seeks to provide the Minister with that kind of tool.
This Bill also provides the power to issue directives or refer the matter to a mediator in this regard. We have an ongoing dispute in so far as karate and softball are concerned and there is no solution in sight, unless, of course, we intervene. The federations themselves are pleading with us to intervene. Their international mother bodies are asking us to intervene but we have to do it very cautiously, because we do not have the legislative framework to just walk in and intervene.
The Bill provides for us to make regulations on various sport and recreation matters so that nobody can just walk into South Africa and put up a podium and do whatever they like. Like the sport which is becoming very popular these days, where two fighters punch and kick each other until one dies. We do not have a legislative framework to ban those kinds of activities. They have been banned elsewhere in the world and now they are seeking new homes, and South Africa has been identified as one such home.
The Minister of Sport and Recreation will not intervene in the selection of teams and election of administrators, which is the biggest issue that everybody who is opposed to this Bill alludes to. Two days ago, I had a long interview with Mr Leon Schuster, the comedian - ostensibly on behalf of concerned Afrikaner rugby lovers. Schuster was raising these issues, asking me: Why do you want to select rugby teams? I told him that I had done that for many years, that I was tired now and that I would not do it unless I was appointed as a selector. That is not what we want to do and the Bill specifically precludes that as part of our intervention.
The Bill does not empower us to tell the SA Rugby Union who their next president should be. It does not tell us who the next leadership of Safa should be, which is what the soccer lovers want it to do. The Bill precludes us from doing that.
The Minister of Sport and Recreation, however, has the responsibility to ensure good and responsible governance of sport and recreation in this country. We have seen many examples of malpractices and poor governance of national federations over the past few years.
Surely, we cannot have a situation where officials of federations can destroy a sport and the Minister can do nothing about it. Sport belongs to the nation. It is an integral part of our way of life and culture as South Africans. Over this our government, as the elected representatives of our people, must have a serious responsibility.
We do not subscribe to the view that sport is a sacred cow that must be left untouched. Our sport must be reflective of the type of society that we want in our country. It must make us proud as a nation.
We are mindful of the position of international sporting bodies with regard to government interference in sport. This Bill does not in any way suggest that government will interfere in sport and recreation. In fact, I am sure that it is the wish of every international body that its members exercise good governance and it is expected of every responsible Minister to ensure that this is the case.
As a matter of fact, the last conference of Fifa, in Zurich last April, resolved that a special committee should be established which would work out, together with the governments of the world, how this relationship should be managed, because, as President Blatter said, it is very clear that on the African continent, without the involvement of government, no sport would take place. He also correctly pointed out that no government would put its resources into an institution over which it has no say.
After conducting public hearings regarding the Bill around the country, the inclusion of the amendments to the Bill, as proposed at the said public hearings, were considered. As a result, provision has now been made for a consultative process to take place, where MECs are involved, where applicable, when the Minister of Sport and Recreation decides to intervene in a particular dispute, like in the dispute between the PSL, the SABC and SuperSport. It would not have been resolved without our intervention. It would not have been possible without the consultation with the MEC of Gauteng and the Ministry of Communications. The dispute on the radio broadcasts is still under way and we are directly involved in those conflict resolutions. We are pleased that this Bill takes those realities of our situation into account.
A penalty clause is included in clause 8 of the Bill, which makes sure that the national federations are dealt with if they misuse the funding that they receive from government, because in the end it is our department that must face Scopa and the parliamentary committees when these things happen. It also provides that when a federation fails to develop sport and recreation, as undertaken in the proposed section 10, it is dealt with in terms of the punitive regulations.
Provision has been made that national federations must develop sport and recreation at club level and that national federations must also, in terms of the Bill, indicate the specific clubs that will receive the funding, so that we do not just give R1 million to Safa and at the end of the season there is no concrete report on how many teams were developed with that amount or how many beneficiaries can be pointed out. Nor can our friends, the golf development team, tell us how many disadvantaged children have been developed with the half a million rand that we gave them. So we are improving on the management of our resources and monitoring how they are utilised. Provision has also been made that the constitution of national federations must be scrutinised on a regular basis to ensure that they conform to the Constitution of our country and to the objectives of our transformation agenda. We have seen shocking situations recently where constitutions of some federations are as old as 1946, and invariably the contents of those constitutions are so problematic as to be unconstitutional.
In clause 13, the Bill provides that the Minister of Sport and Recreation must issue guidelines instead of having an option to do so. In other words, this is imperative. We can’t just say that we think there should be guidelines. The Bill states that it must be our fundamental responsibility to make sure that guidelines exist.
In conclusion, I wish to refer to clause 7(d) of the Bill, concerning the recruitment by a national federation of a foreign sportsperson to participate in sport in South Africa, and state that the Minister of Sport and Recreation does not intervene in the selection of teams by requiring that a national federation must satisfy itself that there are no other suitable sportspersons in South Africa before doing such recruitment.
This Bill, I suppose, is informed by current problems where, for instance, the PSL recruits from the Scandinavian countries a CEO to run professional soccer in this country. Our argument has always been that among the 45 million South Africans, surely, there must be adequate CEOs who can run soccer in this country.
The same applies to the SA Rugby Union, which saw fit to employ Mr Jones from Australia to assist the national coach and his technical team. We are not confident that South Africa does not have anybody of Mr Jones’ calibre in terms of technical know-how in the game of rugby football. See how Argentina beat France! They are coached and trained by South Africans and they beat France in the way they did. Our argument is that the law of our land which says that we must only recruit scarce skills must also apply to how we recruit personnel for rugby, soccer, tennis and all these other sporting codes.
We see this Bill as an important piece of legislation and we sincerely trust that the hon members will give it their support. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, I will take half the time you are giving me, precisely because the Minister has covered most of issues raised in this Bill.
Hon Minister, hon members, the Minister has indicated this but I’ll repeat it: Today’s debate takes place at a time when, as a nation, we have mixed feelings. We are sad because just last week we lost a young talent in Gift Leremi, a former Pirates player and present Sundowns player, a talent that could inevitably have been used to the advantage of the country in the 2010 Soccer World Cup. As if that was not enough, a car accident again claimed another young talent, the Mozambican captain of the Black Leopards, Fernando Matola, his wife and two children. Once again we extend our condolences to the bereaved families and to all soccer-loving countrymen in South Africa and indeed soccer-loving Mozambicans.
In the same vein, we are happy that Bafana Bafana – I hope I’m not contradicting the Minister - has qualified for the African Cup of Nations, despite their humiliating loss to Chipolopolo [the Copper Bullets]. Yesterday they played better against Uruguay, as the score was a goalless draw. The Proteas and the Springboks are doing us proud in the T20 and the Rugby World Cup in France, respectively.
Coming back to the debate, we will remember that sport and recreation in South Africa is governed by the National Sport and Recreation Act of 1998. It has become clear in the past nine years that there are gaps in this Act. It has also become clear that certain provisions of that Act have been overtaken by events.
The Bill before this House is an endeavour by Sport and Recreation South Africa to address the challenges mentioned above, and to bring in new provisions which will enhance and accelerate the transformation and development of sport in this country.
It is a well-known fact that certain structures, such as the SA Sports Commission and the National Olympic Committee of South Africa are no longer in existence, and there is therefore a need to remove them from the statutes. The Bill, among other things, does exactly that. In their place it establishes a single Sports Confederation in the country, responsible for co-ordinating the promotion and development of high-performance sports.
It is a well-known fact that there are some people responsible for certain sporting codes who are committed to resisting transformation in sport. They do not embrace the political changes that have taken place in our country over the past 13 years and therefore refuse to deracialise these sporting codes in a meaningful way.
Hitherto government, through the Ministry of Sport and Recreation, had no leverage to force some of these federations to enhance transformation and develop sport in a manner that does not recognise colour. This Bill is just what the doctor ordered. The Bill gives the Minister of Sport and Recreation the power to intervene in any federation if there are problems that are likely to bring the sport into disrepute.
The federations will now be compelled to develop sport and recreation at club level. On a yearly basis they are expected to report to the Minister and give the names of clubs they have funded with the money from government and indeed with their own funds. The Minister has indicated that too.
If any federation fails to abide by the provisions of this Act, they risk no longer being recognised by government. This will have very serious implications for that federation in that it will lose funding from government and may also lose recognition internationally.
We know that the legacy of apartheid is still alive and well. This situation will not rectify itself and therefore there is a need for intervention. It is for this reason that the Bill empowers the Minister to issue guidelines or policies that will enable the federations to address problems of equity, representivity and redress in sport and recreation. This is in line with the principle of democracy and nonracialism, the principle for which many laid down their lives. Sport and recreation is an important weapon in the hands of the nation, to build one South African nation with one common patriotism.
We are aware that there are some people, prophets of doom, who are very nostalgic about the past, and who shout at the top of their voices, crying foul. They claim that this Bill will give the Minister of Sport and Recreation powers to interfere in sport. Some of those voices or their representatives we will hear in this debate today. We want to assure the nation out there that nothing is further from the truth. This Bill gives the Minister powers to see to it that all South Africans have an equal opportunity to develop their talent in sport, so that those who flourish get an opportunity to represent us nationally and even internationally.
In conclusion, as the ANC we say that this piece of legislation is long overdue and we support it unreservedly. We call upon this House to support this Bill if in future we want to see all national teams reflecting, in the true sense, the rainbow nation of our country. We move that the House supports this Bill. Thank you.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe nabahlonishwa bonke abakule Ndlu namalungu ahloniphekile ePhalamende … [Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, all the dignitaries present in this House and hon Members of Parliament …]
… sport and recreation play a very important social and developmental role in any society. It is a fundamental human right which all governments should make available to their people.
Unfortunately, for many people in South Africa, access to sport and sporting facilities is still a dream. This is most evident in the rural areas of our country, where many aspirant sportsmen and women do not have access to facilities and opportunities that will enable them to develop into world-class competitors.
The situation must be corrected and the relevant sporting authorities and governmental departments must ensure that the necessary structures are in place and that all South Africans have equal access to sporting facilities and opportunities. An environment conducive to the development of sport must be created if we are to correct the injustices of the past.
Mphathisihlalo, ukuzibandakanya emidlalweni enhlobonhlobo kubalulekile kakhulu empilweni yethu sonke, ikakhulu-ke kubantwana abasakhulayo. Kuyadabukisa nokho ukwazi ukuthi kusekhona izikole osekuyoze kufike u-2010 kungekho ngisho inkundla yebhola likanobhutshuzwayo kuzo. Kukhona amaqhawe nezincushe ebesizowina ngazo imidlalo ngo-2010 kodwa lutho.
Uma kunguthi sizimisele ukukhulisa, ukwakha, nokucija abadlali abasha, asingashiyi ngaphandle abanye sikhethe iphela emasini. Abanakwe kakhulu nalaba abasemakhaya antulayo. Amakhono azohlala obala bese kuqhubeka ukulolongwa emikhakheni efaneleyo. Kusabheda ezindaweni ezisemakhaya uma sikhuluma ngezimidlalo nezokuncebeleka. Nathi njengeqembu le-IFP siyakhala impela ngokulahlekelwa abadlali abevelele kwezebhola abahambe ngezingozi ezehlukene zezimoto. Akwehlanga lungehlanga. I-IFP iyasekela. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, participating in all sorts of sporting activities is crucial for all of us in order to stay healthy, especially for growing children. It is disturbing though to note that there are still schools in which, even by 2010, there will still not be playing fields, not even a soccer field. We are going to miss out on potential heroes and skilful players who could help us to win in 2010.
If we are serious about developing, growing and training our young players, let us not discriminate by leaving others out. Let equal attention be given to those who live in poor households. This will bring out the talent which can then be developed at the appropriate levels. Things are still very bad in the rural areas when it comes to sport and recreation. As the IFP, we would like to convey our sympathy on the death of prominent players who lost their lives in separate car accidents. May their souls rest in peace. The IFP supports the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Mna O M THETJENG: Modulasetulo, a ke thome ka go otlolla polelo ya rena ka go lebiša mantšu a kwelobohloko go malapa ao a ilego a welwa ke leru le leso mo matšatšinyaneng a go feta. Re re mahloko go ba gaLeremi ka ge mošimane Gift a re šiile – mošimane yo a bego a le matšato e le ruri go tša kgwele ya maoto. Gape re re mahloko le go lapa la gaMatola ka ge kapotene ya setlhopha sa Black Leopards, Fernando, le yena a ile a re šiya kotsing ya sefatanaga, a se noši eupša le mohumagadi wa gagwe le bana ba bona ba babedi.
Bjale re kwa gore re tloga re šiilwe ke bakgoni ba kgwele ya maoto. Re re e ke meoya ya bona e ka robala ka khutšo. Re le ba DA re re re lla le lena. Empa wena lehu ga se wa loka gobane o re moo batho ba dutšego, ba sa itebetše, wa tla wa tšea bjaloka pekwa. Re re re tlogele re se ke ra wela dilong tšeo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson, let me start this debate by conveying my condolences to the families that have lost their loved ones. We are conveying our condolences to the Leremi family, as Gift has passed on - this lad was very active in soccer. Again we convey our condolences to the Matola family, as Fernando, who was the captain of the Black Leopards team, also died in a car accident, together with his wife and two children.
We have lost two heroes in soccer. May their souls rest in peace. As the DA we sympathise with them. But death, you have no right, because you come unexpectedly like a thief. We are saying, stop, so that we do not fall in your trap.]
Let us also congratulate ourselves as a country for having been chosen to host the inaugural T20 Cricket World Championship from 11 to 24 September. Let us also join in the joyous chorus sung by our cricket team on winning their first game. Boys, we believe in you and we hope that you will win the cup for us.
The Rugby World Cup is also taking place in France and our boys convincingly thrashed Samoa. Well done, Bryan Habana, for the tries you scored, and to the rest of the team we say: Congratulations.
Re a le lebogiša mešomong ya lena ye mebotse.
Modulasetulo, re tloga re tseba gabotsebotse gore molawana wo o lego mo pele ga rena o tlile go ntšha ditlhophana tšeo di bego di le gona. The SA Sports Commission yeo e bego e le gona e ka se sa ba gona. Gape ebile e dumelela Tona ya tša Dipapadi le Boithabišo gore mo go bego le mathata go tsenwe gore a tle a fedišwe. Empa ke kwa ke le maswabinyana ka lebaka la gore go bonagala okare yona taba ye ya gore go tla tsenwa-tsenwa, go tla ba le fao go tsenwago moo e lego gore ga se ba swanela go tsena. Ke kwa ke tšhaba e bile ke tšhoga ka go tseba mmušo wa ANC ka mokgwa wo e lego gore o hlakahlakantšha dilo ka gona - gore le gona mo re nagana gore okare o tlile go hlakahlakantšha dilo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[We congratulate you all on your excellent work.
Chairperson, we know very well that this Bill in front of us is going to eliminate the smaller groups that were there. The SA Sports Commission will no longer exist. It also allows the Minister of Sport and Recreation to interfere wherever there are problems, so that these can be resolved. I am disheartened by this interference as it will make him do what he is not supposed to do. I feel very scared and sad because I know how confusing the ANC-led government can be and I feel it is going to make a mess of things.]
This Bill allows the Minister to intervene in disputes and provides for the issuing of guidelines for the promotion of equity, representivity and redress in sport. We as the DA want to appeal that the establishment of sports academies should actually be looked into. This particular Bill is silent on this, and actually expects federations to promote developmental sport. But I would want to challenge the Ministry and say that I believe that such a direct intervention would ensure that those people that were previously disadvantaged are able to participate in those sports code from which they were excluded in the past. This will ensure that sportsmen and women are included in the teams on merit and not on the basis of the colour of their skin.
From some quarters we have heard people that are calling for a quota system to be introduced. Instead of a quota system, we should deliberately establish a sporting academy, where people will be trained, and then selected on merit to be in particular teams. Now, this does not mean that the DA does not acknowledge the imbalances of the past. But let us not just verbalise it; let us act and make sure that sporting facilities are put in place. If it is correctly reported in the media, the black cricketers in the South African teams are not in favour of a quota system in terms of which they are included on the basis of being black rather than their ability to perform on the field.
I think this is where we need to be going as a country if we have to go somewhere else. It is this department that must show the federations the way, because if we are to rely on them, we are unlikely to achieve the objective of South African sportspeople being selected on merit. It is also a concern that the federations are based at national level and not at provincial level, because that is where talent is identified and nurtured. Perhaps the Minister can share information about whether we are likely to have a section 76 Bill where provinces can also play a role, because it is generally silent on the role of the provinces; the Bill only talks about the role of the Minister at that particular level.
I am also encouraged to see the inclusion of clause 13(5)(b) subsection 2 that says the Minister may not interfere in matters relating to the selection of teams, the administration of sport and the appointment or termination of service of the executive members of the sport or recreation bodies. Let us see how this shapes up once the Bill becomes an Act, because we have just heard from the chairperson that this intervention seems to refer to a situation where there will be interference in the sporting system.
May we say, as the DA, that we would really appreciate a situation where academies are established for the purpose of nurturing skills, so that people are selected and included in teams on the basis of their ability to perform on the field. In that case we will be very happy and the quota system won’t be on our lips, but we will actually have a situation where merit counts most. If you check soccer today, nobody is complaining about the inclusion of any colour or anything there. It’s about people who are there on merit. Why is soccer played on that particular basis? It is because the soccer fields are available in the villages for them to do that.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order!
Mr O M THETJENG: I still have time. I am looking at the time, Chairperson. There are 54 seconds left.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): I also have the time in front of me. Your time has expired.
Mr O M THETJENG: Thank you very much. I am done with my speech – but I still had time.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member, are you arguing with me?
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, let me start off by saying that it is indeed a pleasure and an honour for me to participate in this particular debate today. But having listened to my colleague from the DA who portrays the situation that we want to mislead people, I must say that that is a lie. Whatever we have done so far in South Africa, ever since we were elected to power in 1994, has ensured that we make progress in this country – be it in respect of health, education or sport. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order!
Mr M A SULLIMAN: You can never compare the old South Africa to the new South Africa.
We must understand what the word “intervene” means and what the word “interfere” means. There is a difference there. English is not my first language, but I think it’s about time that you educate your colleague and assist him to say the right things when he gets to this podium.
On the question of soccer: Soccer has never been a problem in South Africa because it is well represented. Therefore, there is no outcry as far as soccer is concerned at the present moment in time. But there are sporting codes where we are faced with problems. Cricket is one of them, and rugby is another. We can’t just leave things as they are. The status quo can never remain as it is. That is why we have this Bill … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order! Will hon members please give the hon member a chance to continue with his speech? Thank you very much.
Mnr M A SULLIMAN: Dankie, Voorsitter. Agb Minister, hierdie wetsontwerp wat vandag voor ons is, moes ons al ’n paar jaar gelede gehad het. Dit help nie ons het ’n Minister wat verantwoordelik is vir sport, maar ons gee hom nie die gereedskap om sy werk te doen nie. Hierdie wetsontwerp maak voorsiening dat die Minister sy pligte kan nakom. Anders, as ons dit nie doen nie, het ons mos nie ’n Minister van Sport en Ontspanning nodig nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]
In elk geval, dit is nie wat u wil hê nie. U wil hê die status quo moet dieselfde bly as gedurende die jare voor 1994. Wat ons nou sê, is dat ons dit hoegenaamd nie gaan toelaat nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die agb lid kan maar raas. Dit is my beurt om te praat en ek sal gebruik maak van hierdie geleentheid. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hy sal my nie van stryk bring nie.
Agb Minister, soos ek reeds genoem het, ons moes hierdie wetsontwerp reeds lankal op die Wetboek gehad het. As ons kyk na wat die sportorganisasies in Suid-Afrika doen, lei hulle werklik ons agtergeblewe gemeenskappe op? Doen hulle dit? Nou is ek bly; die wetsontwerp sê as hulle nie die mense oplei nie, gaan ons hulle nie weer geld gee nie, “finish” en klaar. Die wetsontwerp is duidelik. As opleiding nie plaasvind nie, gaan hulle nie fondse kry nie. Dit moet ons duidelik verstaan.
Agb Minister, ons gee vandag vir u die gereedskap. Ons, die ANC, gee vir u die gereedskap om u werk te doen en u pligte na te kom sodat daar gelykheid en goeie verteenwoordiging in al die sportkodes sal wees. Baie dankie, Voorsitter. Dankie, Minister. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr M A SULLIMAN: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Hon Minister, this Bill before the Council today should have been tabled several years ago. It is no use having a Minister of Sport and Recreation if we do not provide him with the tools to do his work properly. This Bill will make provision for the Minister to execute his duties. If we don’t do that then we don’t need a Minister of Sport and Recreation. [Interjections.]
In any case, that is not what you want. You want the status quo to remain as it was before 1994. What we are saying is that we will certainly not allow it. [Interjections.] The hon member can make a lot of noise. It is my turn to speak and I will use the opportunity to do so. [Interjections.] He will not put me off.
Hon Minister, as I have said, this Bill should have been on the Statute Book long ago. If we look at what the sports organisations in South Africa are doing then we should ask whether they are really uplifting our previously disadvantaged communities. Are they really doing that? I am glad that this Bill stipulates that if they do not do that, they will not get any more funding. It is as simple as that. The Act stipulates that.
If they do not provide training then they will not receive any funding. We must realise that.
Hon Minister, we are providing you with the tools today. We, the ANC, are giving you the necessary tools to do your work and fulfil your duties so that there will be equality and proper representation in all sporting codes. Thank you, Chairperson. Thank you, Minister.]
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, let me express my gratitude for the contribution of members to what I believe is a very important debate. Hon Sulliman correctly points out that it does not help to appoint a Minister in a constitutional state and not provide legal tools to implement his or her portfolio. This is common sense. What we are doing today is to correct that, and I agree with him that we should have done this in 1994 already. As a matter of fact, the director-general of sport and youth affairs of Angola, who had been invited to baby-sit the establishment of the department in 1994-95, was unbelievably angry at how we took so long to do what should have been done so long ago. So, I thank the NCOP for having this discussion.
The hon Vilakazi is correct to say that we should provide facilities, and that is exactly what we are doing. On Saturday, we gave the mayor of Ladysmith, eMnambithi, a sports facility which is capable of accommodating a whole range of activities. [Interjections.] You can howl as much as you like, but this is a fact of history. [Interjections.] Come and look. We will take you there. We can’t be everywhere. We are not the Holy Spirit. [Laughter.] And you know it. If this was possible, your own ancestors could have done this long ago. We are making up for what you could not do, and we are doing it. This is God’s truth.
Unfortunately, hon Vilakazi, we can’t provide sports facilities to every school, because they built our schools on mountains and ravines. There is no way you can provide facilities in those situations.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Why are you pointing at me?
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: It’s because your government did it. [Interjections.]
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: It was not my government!
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: It was your government! [Interjections.] I am prepared to respond. Let him ask a question.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order, please!
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Chairperson, on a point of order: How can the Minister refer to the previous government as being my government when I in fact was in the opposition for 32 years? Does he not know the truth? Why does he come here and tell us lies?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member, I think you are the one who has been provoking the Minister. I think if we can keep quiet and listen to what the Minister is saying, the Minister will probably not refer to any previous government, because you are the ones who are provoking him.
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, he was the opposition of the same white government. The Constitution and the history of this country will prove this to be a fact of history. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order, please!
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: But I am saying here that we cannot not correct what you and your opposition did. We are correcting it now. We are not just saying that it doesn’t matter.
Hon Thetjeng, let me correct you on sports academies. If you read the annual reports, including last year’s annual report, you will see how much has been budgeted for sports academies. Indeed, if you look at the current budget, you will see how much is being budgeted for academies. It is very important that members read these documents so that when they make statements they make them on the basis of facts.
As far as the development of sport is concerned, I have just reported that we are doing it. We are intervening where nobody else wants us to intervene, where nobody else has intervened in the lopsided plans of yesterday.
You raised a very serious matter about soccer: Why are there no complaints about soccer? Soccer in this country has always been integrated. This is a matter of fact. [Interjections.] Again, this is history. It has always been integrated. The reason you have problems with cricket and rugby is that they have always been exclusive. Cricket has always been the preserve of Jews and the English, and rugby has always been the preserve of Afrikaners. If you were not born at that time, the archives are available. [Laughter.] You can go and verify them for yourself.
I agree with you that the ultimate objective in any country is merit selection. But I am not convinced you understand the meaning of the word, because you cannot say to me that there are imbalances and in the same breath say that there is merit selection. That’s a contradiction. How can you have merit in a situation of imbalances? How do we get to the merit if we do not eliminate the imbalances? Think again, my friend, or ask the writer of your script to think again. [Laughter.] The last thing I must correct you on, hon member … [Interjections.] Luister, né. Ek luister. Ek luister en dus moet jy ook luister. [Listen. I have listened. I have listened and therefore you must also listen.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon members, can you please sit down, both of you. I have requested both of you to sit down, hon member. Continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: On the question of federations, again, hon Thetjeng, you are wrong. Federations exist right at the bottom. For instance, I have just received a message that the honorary president of Safa in the Eastern Cape, Themba Makana, passed away yesterday. It confirms that federations exist right at the bottom. They exist at provincial level. The national federations are fed by provincial federations and the provincial federations are fed by subregional federations. This is how it is done. Safa completed that restructuring last year. Netball completed it at the beginning of this year.
Again, sport is a serious phenomenon. People must understand it before they talk about it, otherwise they are going to confuse themselves.
Every province has a right to promulgate its own laws. They don’t depend on what we do. They depend on what they want to do. We have not precluded them from this Bill.
Chairperson, transformation is not negotiable – not even in sport; and we will proceed with that programme. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON PROVINCIAL WEEK OF 13-17 AUGUST 2007
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): House Chairperson, hon members, once again we have the opportunity to debate in this House the work of the National Council of Provinces through one of its vehicles, namely the provincial week.
The report we are debating this afternoon is that of the provincial week of the period 13 to 17 August 2007, when our provincial delegations went back to their provinces to work on the ground together with their counterparts in the legislatures. Of course, this is an expression of the kind of relationship or bond that must exist between this House and the provinces it represents.
As you witnessed with the last provincial week, this important exercise is growing and is providing us with the most important avenue for taking issues from the provinces back to Parliament as part of the NCOP’s work. This is important because one of the new priorities of Programme 2009, which we adopted last week, on 6 September 2007, clearly stipulates that our select committees and Whippery must, among other things, ensure that provincial weeks are designed in such a way that they assist members to focus the work of the NCOP, and that it is responsive to Programme 2009’s imperatives.
This relates more to the content of the work we are doing during the provincial week. It is important that the content of this work assists us in advancing our oversight of the areas we have identified as priority areas for this and the next financial year. The provincial week is thus one of the mechanisms established to evoke provincial interest and to ensure that provincial delegates keep abreast of developments, as well as the challenges that are facing their provinces.
The following are some of the objectives behind the provincial week: To provide a forum for the exchange and sharing of ideas on progress made on service delivery; to undertake an oversight visit to communities in order to ensure that we get information on the needs and challenges of the people; to visit projects that are implemented by both national and provincial governments and the local people in their provinces; and to follow up progress on service delivery and report back to this House.
All these points go to the core of intergovernmental relations, as all the spheres of government are implicated. We must do our oversight as the epitome of co-operative governance.
It is also critical that when we conduct our work during the provincial week, we engage our communities, because it is our communities, the people, who must confirm the delivery that we talk about. They must confirm that the service being delivered is in line with their expectations. Otherwise, we would not be honouring the commitment we made in the preamble to the Constitution that we are freely elected representatives who:
Lay the foundations for a democratic and open society in which government is based on the will of the people …
We would also not be advancing the promise we made, which is contained in the vision of Parliament, namely building a People’s Parliament
that is responsive to the needs of the people, and that is driven by the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of South Africa.
The NCOP, as the House that brings all three spheres of government under one roof, has an important role to play in engaging our communities in promoting co-operative governance. We must remember that the Constitution, in Chapter 3, advocates co-operative governance, and it is this House, by its design, that has the duty to be in the forefront of facilitating the promotion of co-operative governance and intergovernmental relations.
We cannot take this obligation lightly because, in section 2, the Constitution is clear that “the obligations imposed by it must be fulfilled”.
I have a message for the hon Seaton of the IFP in the National Assembly, who objected to us taking Parliament to the people. I want to tell her that we do not need her permission to take Parliament to the people because it is a constitutional requirement. Therefore, sittings of the National Council of Provinces are permitted at places other than the seat of Parliament only on the grounds of public interest, security or convenience, and if provided for in the Rules and orders of the Council, which it is. So, we are telling hon Seaton to go and read the Constitution.
It is important to engage with policy issues in the NCOP by means of site visits and debates, to ensure that our debates are informed by provincial and local government service delivery challenges, and that members of the NCOP and provincial legislatures continue to meet regularly to look at challenges around service delivery and also improvements, because we also continue to improve the service we give to our people through these oversight interactions.
Oversight can also be thought of as a way of promoting co-operation between the executive and Parliament, that is, the legislatures and, in this way, contributing to accelerated service delivery that the Constitution enjoins all of us to do, and not as an adversary. Remember, Parliament and the legislatures are the representative branch of government.
Members will recall that during this year’s Parliament Budget Vote debate, we made reference to the new parliamentary oversight model that aims to ensure a quality process of scrutinising and overseeing executive action, focused on the following areas: A quality oversight and accountability process determining systems and human resource capacity required for the function of oversight and the necessary technical mechanisms, tools, content and research support for oversight. This is to ensure that the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of South Africa will come true.
As I’ve tried to emphasise, the decision to add the element of public hearings to our provincial week was a conscious one because in order to resonate with the theme of “Addressing the challenges for effective and sustainable service delivery to our people”, we have to let the people speak about these challenges. It is only after listening to debates by the affected people that we are able to act more appropriately.
Let me remind hon members that you have sharper teeth in the form of oversight and you must use them when necessary. Remember, in addition to your oversight role, we are the ones who approve the Budget that, each year, National Treasury proposes for the government. We have the power not to approve the Budget if we are of the view that the priorities of government are not being addressed.
Oversight vehicles such as provincial weeks provide us with a gauge to measure whether we are on track to achieve these priorities. If we plan and co-ordinate our oversight programmes appropriately, there is a lot we can achieve. Our people look up to us to ensure government responses to their challenges, and we cannot disappoint them.
House Chair, through careful planning and implementation of oversight mechanisms such as the provincial week, surely we can fulfil our constitutional obligations of providing a national forum for public consideration of issues. This includes educating, informing and involving the people of South Africa in parliamentary processes and acting as the voice of the people. I thank you. Ke a leboga. Enkosi. [Applause.]
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Chairperson, hon members, the NCOP plays a very vital role in the provincial weeks that we take to our respective provinces. We see that delivery takes place and is implemented for the people on the ground.
I would like to highlight a few issues and challenges from our last visit to the Eastern Cape, which is my province. I’m going to start with housing. We visited the Matthew Goniwe Greenfields project, which is in the Nelson Mandela Metro. We also went to Walmer, which is also in the metro, and to Kenton-on-Sea.
We’ve come a long way and vast strides have been made by government as far as delivery of houses to the people of South Africa goes. But I’d like to caution that we have to unblock the process, which is slow in some areas. Through court cases and contractors not finishing what they set out to do, the price of housing has escalated. When we started in 1998 the price was R15 000 per house. It has now gone up to about R50 000 to build a 40 square metre house. It is vital that these processes get unblocked.
I’m happy to say that the Kouga Municipality which we visited – which is just south of the metro – has done all their bucket eradication. That has been completed.
The second issue I would like to raise is a visit to the Dora Nginza Hospital, which is also in the Nelson Mandela Metro. It was a cause for great concern to hear from Dr Jam-Jam, who is a superintendent at the hospital, that they have a 30% shortage of nursing staff. According to his figures, this gives us one nurse for ninety patients in the hospital. We must really look at this very seriously and try to retain our nurses and sisters, and prevent them from leaving South Africa and going to places such as Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom.
The other concern that was raised by the superintendent of the Dora Nginza Hospital in the metro was that MDR TB cases have been admitted to that hospital. Our health department in the province is seeing to that.
This is just a short report of where we were and what we did in the Eastern Cape. In conclusion, what I would like to recommend to the House is that timeframes be attached to challenges we find in our provinces so that when we do go back, we can assess and measure how things have improved in areas we have been to previously.
I would like to congratulate the NCOP on what we have done for service delivery on the ground. Thank you very much.
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon members, special delegates, seeing that we are talking about sport today, I am going to start with something like that. The NCOP has once again scored a winning goal - but I am not so sure about the goal; I think I must call it a try – for intergovernmental relationships and democracy in this country with the very successful provincial week from 13 to 17 August.
During the provincial week of 14 to 18 May, the Free State’s permanent delegates focused on government’s commitment to eradicating all pre-1994 bucket systems by December 2007. During the provincial week of 13 to 17 August, the Free State delegation attempted to ascertain the progress made with this eradication and for this purpose met with Matjhabeng Local Municipality and Mangaung Municipality, and conducted site visits to Ntediseng Intermediate School and to Botshabelo.
A matter of great concern to the delegation was the fact that, in all cases, there was a total misunderstanding by all stakeholders as to the definition of which buckets should be eradicated in terms of the current objectives of December 2007.
This confusion gave rise to the fact that, on the basis of the information supplied to the delegation relating to the eradication of buckets, it was difficult to establish the exact backlog in terms of the current objectives and definition as set out by government. This confusion also placed further undue financial pressure on the said municipalities. This resulted in priority distortions and delivery constraints.
One of the major challenges hampering progress in the eradication of buckets, especially in the Mangaung area, is the unintended consequences relating to the booming economy as a result of the upgrading of infrastructure for the 2010 Soccer World Cup. This has caused a shortage of equipment as well as fluctuations in building material prices.
Notwithstanding these obstacles, the delegation observed a total commitment by all stakeholders to achieving the objective of eradicating all pre-1994 buckets by December 2007 in the Free State.
At the previous meeting with the Mangaung Municipality, in May, it was indicated that there was a backlog of 10 793 pre- and post-1994 buckets that still needed to be eradicated. In terms of the definition of pre-1994 buckets, this figure now stands at only 683.
What is particularly encouraging is that, while installing a new system in Mangaung, the municipality is going the extra mile by also installing wash basins with all new waterborne systems. This again illustrates the ANC government’s commitment to bettering the lives of all its people, as promised in the 2004 election manifesto and our People’s Contract.
The delegation reported that it was especially satisfied with the good work done by the Mangaung Municipality and would like to commend them for that.
During discussions with the Matjhabeng Municipality, it became clear that there were some financial difficulties relating to the receipt of allocations from Treasury to this municipality. As a result of this, the delegation recommended that the Select Committee on Finance should investigate this matter as a matter of urgency.
The delegation also visited the Ntediseng Intermediate School in Botshabelo. This school is equipped with a rapid reactor activated sludge sanitation system. This system is ideal for small and medium applications. This is a unique process that uses an air-lift sludge recycling system and is environmentally friendly, low cost, low maintenance, has no smell, and ensures that effluent can be reused for gardening purposes.
The delegation therefore proposed that the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs should visit this site as it has great potential and could be presented to all municipalities as a cost-effective alternative to expensive waterborne systems.
In conclusion, the delegation is of the view that there is political and administrative will and commitment by all stakeholders in the Free State to deal with the challenges to eradicate all buckets, as required by the definition, by the end of the year. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, Gauteng is known as the commercial hub of South Africa and its contribution to GDP is almost 40%. However, in Gauteng, like anywhere else in the country, there are many people who are unemployed. The Premier of Gauteng, in his state of the province address, committed the provincial government to growing the economy by 8% by 2012 so that the country can realise the 6% growth, and halve unemployment and poverty by
- Therefore, the question that confronted the delegates and members of the legislature in the provincial week was to examine whether the fundamentals were in place to achieve these goals.
Having studied the provincial growth and development strategy, the delegates and the Portfolio Committees on economic affairs, agriculture and local government resolved to examine the growth and development strategies of Ekurhuleni and the district of West Rand Municipality, and also look at the challenges encountered by the business community in doing their work. Importantly, we had to speak to the Department of Finance and Economic Affairs as the custodians of the policies of growth and development.
One of the pillars of the Gauteng growth and development programme is called Blue IQ, which houses projects such as Innovation Hub, Automotive Supplier Park and Automotive Industries Development Centre, which is also a national project of the Department of Trade and Industry. These projects have, within a short space of time, between them created over 4 000 permanent jobs.
The provincial government has also established the Gauteng Enterprise Propeller to assist small business; 753 small and medium enterprises have already been assisted and another 4 050 permanent jobs have been created. The government has invested over R10 million in skills development in the Automotive Cluster Vienna Region.
According to the 2005-06 annual report of the Department of Finance and Economic Affairs, over 11 220 direct and indirect jobs have been created since the inception of the Blue IQ programme in 2003.
We also met the MEC for Agriculture, Conservation and Environment, Comrade Khabisi Mosunkutu, who also informed the members that they intend establishing agricultural hubs so that the business of agriculture is not left to one province.
We saw the best example of women empowerment through a lady who owns a chicken farm. This lady, Ms Luyanda Sondiyazi, told us that she was supplying retail stores such as Shoprite, Pick ʼn Pay and others. She also told us that she needed to grow her business because she could no longer cope with the demand for chicken and eggs. Currently she has 25 employees and she intends to increase the number to 40.
We also met a representative of the Department of Provincial and Local Government who told us what they were doing to help municipalities to align their budgets with the integrated development plans. Clearly, there are still challenges in this area, including participation of sector departments in the process of drawing up IDPs.
The Ekurhuleni Metro, which is the prime manufacturing hub of South Africa, informed us about their intervention programmes to link the first and second economies by, inter alia, encouraging big business to procure from the SMMEs. The Ekurhuleni Municipality has developed an information and communication technology incubator to grow the knowledge industry. To contribute to Jipsa targets, they established a job placement centre for unemployed graduates, a college of engineering and a partnership with business for mentorship and coaching.
The West Rand Municipality, which we also visited, needs further attention to economic development. It really looked quite depressed due to a declining mining industry, an industry which dominated the region in the past. That municipality raised a problem with dolomite as a consequence of the mining that is no longer in operation. They told us that they had to find land so that they could relocate people from the areas of Randfontein and Westonaria.
The other problem they raised, which they said was the unintended consequence of the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Act, was the way the Act is negatively affecting poor communities. Salga Gauteng also raised this challenge during the previous provincial week visit. Clearly, the NCOP has to look at this Act.
The last group we met was the business community, amongst them, the builders of the Gautrain, Mbombela Concession Company. We challenged other businesses to take advantage of opportunities created by big projects such as Gautrain.
Companies such as Eye of Africa raised concerns about the apparent lack of co-ordination and communication within government departments with regard to new projects.
One of the challenges we raised in Gauteng was the delay with regard to environmental impact assessments. Clearly, it means that there is a need to strike a balance between economic and environmental challenges, and addressing co-operation between local and provincial governments, as was raised by the Eye of Africa.
In conclusion, despite the challenges, Gauteng seems destined to make the province a better place to live and contributes to a better life for all. Thank you.
Mnu Z C NTULI: Mphathisihlalo, ngibingelela amalungu alo Mkhandlu ohloniphekile, amaqabane nabangane, sizokhumbula kahle ukuthi ngesikhathi siya kuleli sonto lezifundazwe sasikade sonke sishilo ukuthi yini esiyoyenza. Saze saba nomhlangano futhi wokufakana imilomo lapho esasichaza khona ukuthi yini esiqonde ukuyoyenza esifundazweni.
Inhloso yethu enkulu esifundazweni saKwaZulu-Natal kwakuwukuthi sihlangane noMnyango Wezemfundo, uMnyango Wezempilo, uMnyango Wezolimo Nokugcinwa Kwemvelo kanye-ke nobuholi nje bonke beSishayamthetho saKwaZulu-Natali. Akwenzekanga-ke konke njengezifiso zethu. Okwenzeka ukuthi sakwazi ukuhlangana noMnyango Wezemfundo kanye nobuholi besifundazwe.
Sabuya sahamba-ke nekomidi leli elilahamba lizwa izimvo zabantu ezindaweni zaKwaZulu-Natali mayelana nokuzikhethela ukuthi umuntu uyathanda yini ukukhipha isisu, kanye nalo Mthetho okhuluma ngokuthi izinyanga kumbe abelaphi bendabuko babe semthethweni. Ngosuku lwethu lokuqala-ke sakwazi ukuthi sihlangane nobuholi beSishayamthetho saKwaZulu-Natali.
Okuhle kakhulu lapha nengifuna ukuthi amalungu alo Mkhandlu akwazi ukuthi KwaZulu-Natali kukhona ikomidi elibizwa ngekomidi elimile. Leli komidi lihlalela nje izindaba eziqhamuka eMkhandlwini Kazwelonke Wezifundawe, i- NCOP, ukuthi lizidingide ukuze kungagcini kungazeki kahle ukuthi ubani ngempela okufanele abheke izindaba eziqhamuka kule Ndlu. Kulobu buholi esasihlangane nabo kwakhukhona nosihlalo walelo komidi lezindaba nje eziqondene ne-NCOP okuwuSomlomo nethimba lakhe kanye noSotswebhu nethiba lakhe okuyinto enhle futhi ukuthi kube khona noSotswebhu bamanye amaqembu babe khona.
Izinto-ke esazithinta ikakhulukazi kwaba yilezi zokuthi uma uMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe unomhlangano lapha, uzibophezele ukuthi uzothumela umuntu ozomela isifundazwe ukuthi abe khona ukuze batshengise nabo ukuzimisela kwabo lapha. Nokho, kuye kube khona izinkinganyana ezincane uma kwenzekile ukuthi bangafiki. Okwesibili esakuxoxa nobuholi ukuthi amalungu alapha aqhamuka KwaZulu-Natali uma emenywe iSishayamthetho saKwaZulu-Natali kuyofuneka ukuthi kube uMkhandlu ozokwazi ukuthi uwabhekelele ukuthi akhokheleka kanjani izindleko zawo zokuhamba.
Okunye esakuxoxa laphaya ukuthi kuyoba kuhle ukuthi uma siyobamba imihlangano lapho kwedluliswa khona ulwazi esifundazweni, mhlawumbe kube khona lokhu okubizwa nge-video conferencing ukuthi esikhundleni sokuthi njalo sihambe siye le sihlale phansi bese kuthi ngesikhathi iMinyango isazisa ngokuqhubekayo nabo bebe bebuka ezifundazweni ukuthi uMnyango usazisa kanjani ngokuqhubekayo. Okunye-ke abakugcizelela kakhulu ukuthi sengathi kungaba khona ukusebenzisana kakhulu kule ndlu ebizwa nge-Regis House. Sengathi uMkhandlu ungabasebenzisa kakhulu laba bantu abalaphaya ngoba kubukeka sengathi bahleli nje balinde ukuthi sithini isifundazwe. Sengathi nathi siwulo Mkhandlu singakwazi ukusebenzisana nabo.
Ngosuku olulandelayo sabe sesihlangana-ke naboMnyango Wezemfundo. Esinye sezihloko-ke esasithinta esokuthi bazimisele kangakanani ukulwa noma ukuvimba lesi sifo sengculazi okuyi-HIV/Aids. Basho-ke ukuthi bazimisele kakhulu ikakhulukazi ezikoleni. Sekunanomkhandlu oholwa yihhovisi likaNdunankulu wesifundazwe okuyiwona ohlanganisa uMnyango Wezempilo, uMnyango Wezenhlalakahle Nokuthuthukiswa Komphakathi kanye nawo-ke uMnyango Wezemfundo.
Abakuveza-ke futhi laphaya ukuthi maqondana nohlelo lokondliwa kwezingane zesikole akube khona abantu abathathu abaqashwe uMnyango isifunda sisinye. Laba bantu bazobhekelela isifunda ngasinye babizwa ngama-field workers. Kuzodingeka futhi ukuthi babe nezimoto ukuze bahambe bebheka ezikoleni ukuthi ngabe iyafezeka yini inhloso yethu yokuthi izingane zidle esikoleni, ikakhulukazi lezi ezisemabangeni aphansi. Abakhale ngakho kakhulu-ke laphaya KwaZulu-Natali ingqalasizinda. Izwe laKwaZulu-Natali livuleke kakhulu futhi linezintaba.
Kuye kwatholakala ukuthi izikole eziningi – besicabanga ukuthi umsebenzi awumningi kakhulu – ezibalwa lapha kuthiwa izikole, kushiwo izikole zodaka. Isikole nje esakhiwe ngodaka entabeni nongakwazi ukuya kusona. Uma linile nje, inkinga. Bathe bathole ukuthi sengathi kunamagumbi okufundela ayi-14 000 okufanele ukuthi ngabe akhona kodwa ebebengaboni ukuthi awekho. Uma usuya laphaya uthole ukuthi awodaka. Kukhona-ke nenye into abayizamayo ebizwa ngamagumbi okufundela angomahambanendlwana. Angithi izingane uma zifunda kulesi sikole bese zithola ukuthi asenzi kahle bese zisuka ziya kwesinye noma kutholakale ukuthi sesigcwele.
Kwase-ke kuphakanyiswa ukuthi okungenani akube khona amagumbi okufundela angomahambanendlwana ukuze athathwe alandele izingane lapha zingakhona. Bathi-ke bazimisele ukuthi bakhe lawo magumbi okufundela angomahambanendlwana ayi-157 kulo nyaka. Okunye-ke esakuthola ukuthi bancoma kakhulu indlela abasebenzisana ngayo noMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi. Ngiyakhumbula siyile ekuqaleni ukuthi kwakhukhona ukushayisana. Basethembisile ukuthi izinto zizoshesha manje ngoba sekuyazwanwa.
Mayelana nemihlangano yemiphakathi esayihamba izinsuku ezimbili lapho kwakhulunywa khona ngokuzikhethela uma umuntu efuna ukukhipha isisu kanye nangokuhlonishwa kwabelaphi bendabuko, sahamba-ke izigcwawu ezimbili lapho esinye sasiseMgungundlovu, kwiSishayamthetho, esinye sasise-Port Sheptone, eGamalakhe. Esakubona laphaya ukuthi, ikakhulukazi laba bantu ababizwa nge- Doctors for Life, bazimisele kakhulu ngoba bahlale belapho kunale mihlangano khona. EMgungundlovu babekhona bekhuluma indaba efanayo naseGamalakhe futhi babekhona besalethe imibono yabo kuphela base beshintshe amagama.
Mhlawumbe kuyoba kuhle ukuthi kube enye into esiyibukisisayo leyo ukuthi wenza kanjani ukuthi uma kunemihlangano yemiphakathi kube abantu bakuleyo ndawo. Uye uthole ukuthi abantu abasuka kwenye indawo beze lapha kade besho into efanayo lapho kade bebekhona. Uyabona-ke ukuthi abantu ababezimisele nje ukuzophikisana nale nto eyayikhulunywa futhi bebona ukuthi bayemukeleka ukuthi ngoba bakhona abakhulume. Asazi-ke ukuthi sizoyilungisa kanjani leyo nto.
Okunye-ke esakubona njengoba sasi … [Ubuwelewele.]
USOTSWEBHU OMKHULU WOMKHANDLU: Ngibuza ukuthi laba bantu athi bagcogcoma emihlanganweni yemiphakathi ngabe bafana nalama gumbi okufundela angomahambanendlwane? [Uhleko.]
Mnu Z C NTULI: Ngiyabona impela ukuthi cishe bafana nalama gumbi okufundela angomahambanendlwana ngoba nabo uyabona ukuthi bayathathwa basiwe lapho babuye bathathwe basiwe kwenye indawo – balandele ukuthi sikuphi.
Sengigcina-ke, Mphathisihlalo, esakubona ikakhulukazi ukuthi abantu ababelaphayana babengafuni ukuxoxa ngesichibiyelo. Babekhuluma sengathi uMthetho ima ushawayo. Babefuna ukukhuluma ngoMthetho uqobo lwawo ekuqaleni. Sazama-ke kodwa ukubabuyisa sabakhombisa ukuthi kuhamba kanje. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Z C NTULI: Hon Chairperson, greetings to the hon members of this august Council, comrades and friends. We remember well that when we were preparing for provincial week we had all spelled out what we were going to do. We even had a consultation meeting in which we explained what we were going to do in the provinces.
Our main aim in KwaZulu-Natal was to have meetings with the department of education, the department of health, the department of agriculture and nature conservation as well as the general leadership of the KwaZulu-Natal legislature. However, not everything went according to plan. What happened is that we only managed to hold meetings with the department of education as well as the general leadership of the province.
We also accompanied the committee that was going about holding public hearings in connection with the freedom to have an abortion as well as the Bill on the legalisation of traditional healers. On the first day, we managed to meet with the leadership of the KwaZulu-Natal legislature.
What really impressed us, which I would like the hon members to note, is that there is a committee that is called the standing committee. This committee deals solely with matters emanating from the NCOP in order to discuss them. There must eventually be no confusion as to who exactly should deal with matters emanating from this House. Among the leaders that we met, the chairperson of this committee that deals solely with NCOP affairs was also present, namely the Speaker and his team as well as the Chief Whip and his team. What was even more impressive is the fact that the whips of other parties who could make it were also present.
Among the issues that we discussed was that whenever the NCOP is sitting here, they must commit themselves to send a person who will represent the province thereby also demonstrating their commitment to this House. There are always tiny little problems whenever they do not attend. Secondly, we also discussed with the leadership the issue of the representatives of KwaZulu-Natal in this Council, that whenever they are invited by the KwaZulu-Natal legislature, the NCOP must carry the costs of travelling.
We also discussed the issue of departmental briefings, that it would be a good thing if there could be video conferencing facilities so that as the departments are briefing us, they also could be watching the proceedings, instead of us having to be there to physically brief them. The other issue that they stressed was the need for co-operation especially with Regis House. I wish the Council could make better use of the members of staff over there because it seems as though they are just sitting there waiting for instructions from the provinces. I wish that we as the Council could co- operate better with them.
The following day we met with the department of education. One of the topics that we discussed was the level of their commitment to the prevention of this disease known as HIV/Aids. They assured us that they were extremely committed, especially in the schools. They have established a council that is led by the Office of the Premier, which co-ordinates meetings between the department of health, the department of welfare and social development as well as the department of education.
They also proposed that, with regard to the school feeding scheme, there must be three officials per region who must be employed by the department. These people who co-ordinate each region are known as field workers. They must be provided with vehicles so that they may go from school to school checking whether our wish that the children are fed at school, especially those in the lower grades, is carried out. Their biggest complaint in KwaZulu-Natal is the lack of infrastructure. The province of KwaZulu-Natal is vast and mountainous.
We learned that most schools – we thought that most of the work had already been done – are mud huts. These are the structures that are referred to as schools. There is even a mud hut that is called a school on top of a hill, which is not easily accessible. When it rains, the problem is exacerbated. They discovered that there is a shortfall of 14 000 classrooms that they thought had already been erected. When one goes there one finds that they are mud huts. They are implementing the strategy of providing portable classrooms. It is common that when students in one school realise that the school is not doing well, they move to another school, even though there is no room for more learners.
It was then proposed that portable classrooms should be provided so that they may be taken where they are needed most, following the movement of the learners. They have undertaken to provide 157 portable classrooms this year. We also learned that they are appreciative of the manner in which they co-operate with the Department of Public Works. I do remember that when we went there for the first time there was some friction. They promised us that things will now move faster because they are working well together.
Concerning the two-day public hearings that we conducted, in which the issues of freedom to have an abortion as well as the legalisation of traditional healers were discussed; we visited two areas, one of which was Pietermaritzburg, at the Legislature and the other Port Shepstone, Gamalakhe township. What we saw there was that the people known as Doctors for Life are really committed because they were present in all these public hearings. They were present in Pietermaritzburg, raising the same issues. They were also present in Gamalakhe, only their names were different.
Maybe this is one issue that we need to really look into, the issue of ensuring that whenever there are public hearings, it is the local community that makes the submissions. One normally finds that people from another area come here to repeat what they were saying at a previous meeting. It is clear that these are the people whose sole intention is to oppose everything that is being said, because they realise that they are allowed to make submissions in an area other than their own. I am not sure how we are going to correct this practice.
Another thing that we saw as we were … [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: My question is: Does the hon member agree that these people who move from public hearing to public hearing are like the portable classrooms that he was talking about? [Laughter.]
Mr Z C NTULI: I now realise that they really are almost like the portable classrooms because they are carried from one public hearing to another, following us wherever we go.
Finally, hon Chairperson, what we noted is that the people who were there did not want to discuss the amendment. They were talking as though the law has just been passed. At first they wanted to discuss the Act itself. We tried our best to bring them back on track, showing them how things are done. [Applause.]]
Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, on a point of order: the Act is not called the “Abortion Act”. It is the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act. When the hon member is talking about abortion, he is talking about something else.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order! Hon member, I think the hon member was speaking isiZulu saying … ukuzikhethela. [… to choose for yourself.]
Dr H E MATEME (Limpopo): Modulasetulo, mohlomphegi Tona ya tša Dipapadi, le ge a se gona ka Ntlong ye, maloko ao a hlomphegago a Ntlo ye go tšwa mekgatlong yeo e fapafapanego, re le tlišetša madume a magolo go tšwa profensing ya Limpopo gomme re rata go tiišeletša gape gore Ntlo ye ya NCOP e sa ntše e hola setšhaba ka moo go sa belaetšego. Le mananeo a yona a re tšwela mohola. Gape ruri ge nkabe e se ka bonamodi bja NCOP, rena ba Limpopo le ba Mpumalanga le lehono nkabe re sa ntše re na le khomišinare ye tee ya tša pušetšo ya mabu yeo e re hlankelago e dutše Gauteng. Ke ka maitapišo a NCOP ge go e na le tšwelopele ya go bonagala kua Limpopo. Ge go angwa merero ya ekonomi le kamano ya mebušo, re rata gape go hlompha Ntlo ye ka gobane baetapele ba yona malobanyana ge ba be ba tlile Limpopo re bone bommasepala le bona ba le gona, ba ba hlompha ka go kgatha tema.
Se sengwe seo okarego se sa šaletše morago ebile se nyaka go ka lokišwa, bjaloka ge se šetše se amilwe ke ba bangwe bao ba boletšego pele ga ka – go akaretšwa boMotlatša-Modulasetulo wa Ntlo ye - ke gore re bona gore dilo tša go swana le lesolo la Beke ya Diprofensi le mananeo a mangwe, ge go dulwa tafoleng go rulaganywa - gore ka letšatši la gore-gore go tla iwa kae le kae - diprofensi le tšona di ke di rerišwe. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Dr H E MATEME (Limpopo): Chairperson, hon Minister of Sport and Recreation, even though he is no longer in the House, hon members of this House from different political parties: greetings from Limpopo province. Once more we want to emphasize that the NCOP is doing a tremendous job in terms of helping the people. The programmes are worth it. If it was not for the NCOP’s dedication, we, the people from Limpopo and Mpumalanga, would still have one commissioner of land restitution working from Gauteng. It is because of the NCOP that we have progress in Limpopo. When it comes to economic and government relations, we thank this House, because when the NCOP was in Limpopo we saw that municipalities were also present and we thank them for taking part.
One other thing that is still lagging behind, and that still needs to be fixed - as the people who came here before me have already mentioned, including the Deputy Chairperson of this House - when people organize programmes such as the provincial week or the visits to the provinces, please include the provinces in your discussions.]
That is our submission as Limpopo, so that as we proceed, we do so well synchronised - all of us.
Taba ye nngwe yeo le yona e nyakago go lokišwa go bakgatha-tema ka moka, ntle le tša borulaganyi, ke moya wa boitshwaro. Boitshwaro ka nako tše dingwe bo re šitiša le go re palediša go dira mošomo wa šetšhaba ka gore o hwetša go selaganya lenyatšo le moya wa go leka go hlopha batho ka madulo le magoro a bona setšhabeng. Dilo tša go swana le boinyatšo le boikgokgomošo di na le go šašarakantšha tsepelelo yeo baetapele ba NCOP ba tlogilego ba ipeetše yona ge ba thakgoga mo Cape Town ba e ya diprofensing. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[The other matter that must be looked at by all participants, besides organizing, is to look at behaviour. Our behaviour sometimes makes it impossible for us to do our work properly because sometimes there is disrespect and a spirit of classifying people according to their status. Arrogance and pride disrupt the focus that our leaders from the NCOP have when they move from Cape Town to the provinces.]
We are therefore appealing that the question of attitudes should be kept to a minimum. Let logistical arrangements also be synchronised so that we do not waste a lot of time deciding on who must be where at what time and why.
With regard to issues of governance, here is a very informative, factual report. We salute this House for a report of this quality. All this is about Limpopo.
Chairperson, we would still appeal for help because we did get assistance from this House in the past. We believe that this House still has the ability to assist in some of the challenges which we are facing as Limpopo.
As regards asset management, it is said that we are the only province in the country to use the Finesse system. They piloted that type of system in our province. We have been used as a guinea pig. It is not helpful at all. If ever anybody could hear our cry - we would want to do away with this system. We are told it is designed in Australia. The people working with this system say one of the challenges is that whenever they want to consult with the designers of the system, the Australians will be sleeping because we do have time differences. [Laughter.]
How do you manage and run a government when you do not know accurately the kind of assets you have? We are one of the provinces that were largely fragmented during the apartheid era. To date we aren’t sure how many of the houses government owned or inherited from the former Bantustans. A house is a very big asset which you cannot just miss like that. But because we do not have a good system to maintain our assets, we are moving in the dark.
As far as Limpopo is concerned we can say there is movement forward. Institutional arrangements are in place. But some of the challenges we are experiencing may be as regards quality. When you want risk managers, if you go to some of these places, you find that they have employed former bodyguards. They say no, these will be risk managers - whereas it is a different type of risk which we are thinking about here. So, the intention to do good is there but there are limitations.
In conclusion, we are going to use this report. I want to make that commitment on behalf of my province, that what is written in here will be used as a benchmark. Watch this space! You come to Limpopo next time, you will find we have moved ahead by strides – in leaps and bounds. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms F NYANDA: Chairperson, Mpumalanga is green; wherever you go in Mpumalanga you will find green. The delegation had a meeting with the Department of Public Works’ regional office. The department reported that they were reconciling and checking their assets. It was also specified that by 2010 Public Works must produce a concrete register and report on assets belonging to the department.
The 5% levy on infrastructural cost will be used to fund the Extended Public Works Programme. The Department of Labour has been approached to clarify the stipends to be paid to people who are on the EPWP. There is also a challenge in relation to assisting municipalities with IDPs, because some of the municipalities are failing to do their work.
In terms of the land restitution Act, any person has a right to claim land if such a person has been dispossessed as a result of racially discriminatory laws or practices after 19 June 1913, as stated in our Constitution. Seventy-eight thousand claims were lodged nationally and there are about 5 200 that are outstanding. In Mpumalanga, 6 364 claims were lodged and about 893 are still outstanding. The commission received a capital budget amounting to R634 million, of which R601 million was for expenses to date; and it received an operational budget of R48 million, of which R8 931 000 has been spent already.
In this current financial year, progress has been made. At Enkangala, 1 700 hectares were transferred; at Gert Sibande, 10 000 hectares were transferred; and 12 000 hectares were transferred at Ehlanzeni.
Ikhomishani imatasatasa ngesabiwomali ukulungiselela abanye okufuneka bakhokhelwe izimali ze-Land Claims Commission. Izinselelo esizibonile-ke ukuthi kuba nezingxabano emiphakathini. Uma sebenikezwe lezi zimali bayalwa futhi uma sebenikezwe nendawo bayalwa. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The commission is engaged in the budget allocation in preparation for payments of the Land Claims Commission. The challenges that were identified were that there were often feuds in the communities. When they are given these payments they quarrel amongst themselves and when they have been given land they also quarrel.]
The price of land is a problem, and jurisdictional claims and post- settlement arrangements are also challenges.
Izithunywa ziye zabona ukuthi kudingeka izindawo zibuyele kubanikazi bazo, ezingeni likazwelonke. Kodwa lusazobuye lulandelelwe lolu daba. [The delegates saw that land had to be returned to their original owners at national level, but the issue is still going to be followed up.]
A meeting is required to discuss and assess the challenges and gains that the commission has experienced.
The Mpumalanga land reform office delivered 210 hectares over the past 10 years. In order to meet the 30% target, approximately 185 000 hectares of land will have to be delivered per annum. Mpumalanga province also has to deal with issues pertaining to labour tenancy. A recent survey has shown that the second largest concentration of farm dwellers is in Mpumalanga.
Laba ngabantu abakhishwayo emapulazini balahlwe ngaphandle. Kuthi noma sebeshonelwe yizihlobo zabo kuthiwe akufanale bangcwatshwele kulawo mapulazi. I-Gert Sibande iyona enabantu abasesimweni esibucayi maqondana nabantu abangawanikeziwe amalungelo endaweni yabo.
Sihambile saya nase-Rob Ferreira Hospital labo sifike sathola umbiko wokuthi banazo zonke izinsiza esibhedlela kodwa baswele odokotela nabasebenzi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[These are the people who are evicted from farms and thrown outside. When their relatives die, they are not even allowed to bury them on those farms. Gert Sibande has the greatest number of people who are in a desperate situation when it comes to people who are deprived of their rights.
We went to Rob Ferreira Hospital also, where we got the report that they have the infrastructure but they have a shortage of doctors and workers.]
It’s not that they are short of those; the problem is accommodation. They have a block of flats that they are going to divide among doctors and nurses, for accommodation. We also went to the magistrates’ court in Nelspruit, where we met the chief magistrate. He gave us a report that there were case backlogs because of statements. Most of these cases are remanded and this is a problem for the people, because they do not have the time or the money for buses to come back to court again. So it is a problem.
Social workers were also giving the magistrates problems because there were case backlogs regarding social grants. Social workers were not dealing with these cases and they ended up not being attended to.
We went to correctional services in Nelspruit to check the building. The building needs renovation.
Lidala leliya jele. [That prison is very old.]
Staff members complained that if it rains …
… imvula iyangena. Siye sakhuluma ne-Public Works kodwa ithi okuningi iyakwenza. Uma kodwa uya kuleliya jele … [… the roof leaks. We spoke to the Department of Public Works about it and the answer was that there is a lot that they are doing. But if you are in that prison …]
… you can see that the rain comes in and there is overcrowding. Sihlalo, ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] [Chairperson, I thank you. [Applause.]]
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, my colleagues, special delegates, I am here to present the report on North West. I must first indicate that we undertook this visit to focus on one of the districts called Bojanala district. That is a place around the Rustenburg area, for those of you who don’t know where this place is. Seemingly, all other areas have been covered.
The traditional practice in terms of which one is required to meet the provincial political protocol was followed. We had that meeting. The Speaker was there, as well as the Chair of Chairs and the Chief Whip. Of course, we also had a delegation from the Office of the Premier, because the Premier had been booked off sick at that time.
I must indicate therefore that, after we had taken the meeting through the programme for the week, we then decided first to look at the recommendations of the previous visit. In discussing those recommendations, there was a strong feeling that perhaps it was still too early for us to expect some results out of that. We therefore looked at institutional operations, in order to make sure that we laid a proper foundation that would really speak to the focus of the provincial week even in future.
There were a few recommendations that came through from our provincial Speaker. She made a pronouncement that, from then onwards, she was appointing the Deputy Speaker to look into the affairs of the NCOP. They also made the point that, as far as they were concerned, the legislature would hold us accountable to the province. As such, they were expecting that whenever we come down there for a provincial week, we should come as a full complement.
The Speaker also made the point that they were looking at the possibility of establishing live video conferencing facilities that would make it possible for the provincial legislature to participate in the briefings by national departments, especially on section 76 Bills. The Speaker stated that, in the meantime, it would be advisable that whenever a permanent delegate visits the province for a briefing, he or she must be accompanied by a person from the department. That issue was also emphasised at the meeting.
We undertook a visit to the district and invited the department of safety and security and constitutional affairs. We offered the community leaders and councillors an opportunity to interface with this department, regarding a variety of issues. The report that we got from the department was that they focused on contact crime statistics. Those indicators were positive. They also reported a significant reduction in crime compared to previous years. But there were also some disturbing issues that they communicated, crimes such as car hijacking, car break-ins and housebreaking. Of course, copper cable theft was also reported as one of the disturbing crimes. Also, they mentioned ATM bombings, and claimed that these always came as a surprise.
We also deliberated on the situation of immigrants. There had been reports that our communities were contributing to that situation by allowing a lot of immigrants to run spaza shops in the communities. The committee felt that both the Ministry of Home Affairs and the police should look into ways of regulating these operations.
Of course some positive trends were reported by the police, especially with regard to sector policing. They reported that they were getting maximum support from the communities of the Rustenburg area. Communities took the community policing forums seriously, but they indicated that the success was due to the fact that the community businesspeople contributed by providing some resources. So they were partners in the whole exercise.
We also had a meeting with the department of health on the same day. A few things were reported by this department, such as the shortage of nurses and the need to retain some skilled personnel in rural areas. Community leaders complained that the nursing staff in clinics normally dragged their feet. They reported that there was a certain degree of laxity. They also mentioned problems in terms of telephone networks in rural areas. There was also a feeling that there should be a way of developing some incentives to keep doctors in rural areas.
I must also indicate that the department reported that all hospitals in the district are accredited to dispense ARVs. The department was also focusing on establishing at least five centres by the end of this year, by December. The department was also working hard to overcome the problem of a shortage of ordinary drugs in clinics. This normally happens when contracts of drug suppliers come to an end. They said that those people normally didn’t take their contracts seriously.
One point that was raised by the department which triggered some unpleasantness with stakeholders was that the standard time of attending to a patient was two hours. I thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Me E PRINS (Wes-Kaap): Voorsitter, baie dankie vir die geleentheid om vandag ons verslag aan u voor te lê.
Gedurende die gesamentlike besoek van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies en die provinsiale regering het ons op drie aspekte gekonsentreer. Ons het gefokus op plaasuitsettings, behuising en plaaslike regering, asook grondhervorming.
Tydens ons besoeke het ons op skokkende gevalle van plaasuitsetting afgekom. Verskeie redes vir plaasuitsetting is deur die plaaseienaars gebruik. In een geval is die rede gegee dat huise opgegradeer word vir toeriste wat vir die 2010 Wêreldbeker kom. Daar was gevalle van beide wettige en onwettige plaasuitsettings. Die Grootboom-hofbevel het die verantwoordelikheid van plaasuitsettings op die skouers van plaaslike regering geplaas - uitsettings wat ’n geweldige druk op munisipaliteite plaas om voorsiening te maak vir behuising vir hierdie mense.
Munisipaliteite sit met ’n geweldige waglys en agterstande in behuising en het nie die vermoë om die skielike behuising en maatskaplike ekonomiese dienste te lewer aan mense wat uitgesit word op plase nie. Tans sit ons met ’n situasie waar plaasuitsettings verdere druk op die reeds oorversadigde informele behuisingsektor plaas en aanleiding gee tot ’n groter armoedesituasie en sosiale verval in ons woonbuurte.
Om die ongure gevolge van plaasuitsettings te vermy, is ’n deurdagte noodplan nodig vir implementering deur die Departemente van Grondsake, Landbou, Plaaslike Regering en Behuising, asook instellings soos Agri- Weskaap. Dit was ook duidelik dat plaaswerkers nie altyd bewus was van hul regte nie en dus blootgestel word aan misbruik en uitbuiting. Gapings in die Wet op die Uitbreiding van Sekerheid van Verblyfreg maak plaasuitsettings in die meeste gevalle wettig en die wet sal beslis hersien moet word. Tydens ons besoeke en met die verhore was daar mense - u kan dink wie die mense is - wat gevra het dat ons nie net die ongelukkige plaaswerkers moet ontmoet nie, maar ook gelukkige plaaswerkers. Ek weet nie waar ’n mens dié gelukkige plaaswerkers gaan kry nie. Voorsitter, dit sal goed wees as daar ’n tydelike moratorium geplaas kan word op plaasuitsettings om te verhinder dat verdere uitsettings plaasvind. Dit kan gedoen word in samewerking met die provinsiale Minister van Landbou asook Agri-Weskaap. Ons kan dit doen tot daar gekyk word na ’n amendement tot die huidige wetgewing.
Tydens die oorsigbesoek het die afvaardiging weer eens van die enorme behuising-agterstand bewus geword. Die beskikbaarheid van grond blyk in die meeste gevalle die probleem te wees. Ek dink groter samewerking tussen die drie sfere van regering is noodsaaklik om grond te identifiseer en beskikbaar te maak vir behuising. Die vertraging in die omgewingsimpakstudies is een van die redes wat aangevoer is vir die vertraging in die ontwikkeling van behuising.
Voorsitter, skokkende beweringe het aan die lig gekom in die George- munisipaliteit, waar die Speaker raadslede die geleentheid ontsê het om enige vrae te stel of mosies in te dien of om selfs debatte te voer oor munisipale sake gedurende raadsvergaderings. Dit is ’n ernstige miskenning van die Wet op Plaaslike Regering Munisipale Finansiële Bestuur. Raadslede is nie toegelaat om vrae oor die huidige begroting te vra nie. Dit is ’n miskenning van die rol van raadslede en dit verhinder raadslede om insette namens die gemeenskap te lewer. Raadslede het ’n toesigrol om seker te maak dat die begroting en die uitvoering daarvan plaasvind.
Dit behoort ook vermeld te word dat die munisipaliteit waar ons die probleem opgetel het, in beheer van die DA is - miskien vandaar die verbieding van deelname van ander politieke partye. ’n Mens kan net wonder.
Ek wil dus versoek dat die provinsiale Minister van Plaaslike Regering ’n ondersoek instel na hierdie geval en dat daar ook gekyk word na ander munisipaliteite sodat ons kan sien of dieselfde tendens daar voorkom. Daar moet opgetree word teen die miskenning van die rol van raadslede en seker gemaak word dat hulle hul rol binne munisipaliteite vervul, want dit is die reg wat die wet hulle gee.
Die ander munisipaliteite – ek weet daar sal nou geraas word soos gewoonlik, want ons weet wie die skuldiges in hierdie verband is – is ook by die ander 12 munisipaliteite waar hulle onttrek het uit die SA Vereniging vir Plaaslike Regering. Hulle het opdrag van hul leierskap gekry, eensydig en sonder konsultasie, om uit Salga te onttrek. Ek vra ook by hierdie geleentheid dat na daardie aspek gekyk word. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Ms E PRINS (Western Cape): Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to submit our report to you today. During the joint visit of the NCOP and the provincial government, we concentrated on three things. We focused on evictions on farms, housing and local government, as well as land reform.
During the course of our visits we came across shocking cases of evictions on farms. Various reasons are given by farmers for evicting farm workers. In one case the reason given was the need to upgrade the houses for the tourists who would be coming for the 2010 World Cup. Some cases of eviction were legal while others were illegal. The court’s decision in the Grootboom case has placed the responsibility of farmworker evictions on local government’s shoulders – a responsibility that places tremendous pressure on municipalities to provide housing for these people.
Municipalities are saddled with an enormous waiting list and housing backlogs and do not have the capacity to deal with the sudden need to provide housing and welfare and economic services to people who have been evicted from farms. Currently we have the situation where the eviction of farmworkers is placing further pressure on an already oversaturated informal housing sector and is giving rise to greater poverty and social decline in our communities.
In order to prevent these undesirable effects of farmworker evictions, a well-considered emergency plan is needed for implementation by the Departments of Land Affairs, Agriculture, Local Government and Housing, as well as institutions like Agri-Western Cape. It was also clear that farmworkers were not always aware of their rights and were thus vulnerable to abuse and exploitation. In most cases, loopholes in the Extension of Security of Tenure Act make the eviction of farmworkers legal, and the Act will definitely have to be reviewed.
During the course of our visits and during our hearings there were people – and you would know who these people are – who asked that we should not only meet with the unhappy farmworkers, but also with happy farmworkers. I do not know where one would find these happy farmworkers.
Chairperson, it would be helpful if a temporary moratorium could be placed on the eviction of farmworkers so as to prevent further evictions. This can be done in co-operation with the provincial minister of agriculture and Agri-Western Cape. We can do this until an amendment to the existing legislation can be considered.
During the oversight visit, the delegation once again became aware of the enormous housing backlog. In most cases, the availability of land would appear to be the problem. I think greater co-operation between the three spheres of government is necessary in order to identify land and make it available for housing. The delay in the environmental impact assessments was cited as one of the reasons for the delay in the development of housing.
Chairperson, shocking allegations have surfaced in the George Municipality, where the Speaker has forbidden councillors from asking any questions or entering any motions or even debating municipal matters during council meetings. This shows a serious disregard for the Local Government Municipal Finance Management Act. Councillors were not allowed to ask questions about the current budget. This is a disparagement of the role of councillors and prevents councillors from making any inputs on behalf of the community. Councillors fulfil an oversight role in ensuring that the budget is implemented.
It should also be noted that the municipality where we have picked up the problem is under the control of the DA. Maybe that would account for the prohibition on the participation of other political parties. One can only wonder.
Therefore I would like to request that the provincial minister of local government launch an investigation into this matter, and that other municipalities also be examined so that we can determine whether the same tendency appears there. Action must be taken against the disparagement of the role of councillors, and it must be ensured that they fulfil their roles within municipalities, because that has been granted to them by law.
The other municipalities – I know that, as usual, there will be a noise now, because we have determined who the guilty party is in this respect – are also part of the 12 municipalities who have withdrawn from the SA Local Government Association. They have received, without proper consultation, a unilateral instruction from their leadership to withdraw from Salga. I also take this opportunity to request this that aspect be looked into. I thank you.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, order, please! I think if the members want to have conversations, they are free to go outside and talk there. Hon Kgoshi, please!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): House Chairperson, hon members, colleagues and friends, consideration of the report on the provincial week of 13 to 17 August 2007 takes place against the backdrop of critical developments during this third term of our democratic Parliament.
These are, amongst other things, the recent release of the midterm development indicators report by our democratic government. This report is a measure of how government has performed on its core strategic developmental priorities at the halfway mark of our third democratic government. It provides Parliament and the NCOP in particular with added instruments to monitor government performance.
We have other instruments – reports from departments and oversight visits - but this report also tells us what it is that government has achieved as we are halfway through our third democratic Parliament. I think it is a critical instrument and whatever we do in terms of oversight, we should also look at it critically.
The report is considered against the background of the tabling of the provincial expenditure review for 2004-2010 by the Minister of Finance, a report that has further highlighted critical spending patterns by our provinces against the national development priorities.
We consider this report hardly a few weeks after our recent report-back visit to the Northern Cape and Limpopo, which has also sharpened our insight into good practices, policy gaps and challenges faced by our municipalities and provinces in responding to the developmental needs of our communities.
The provincial week of the NCOP is amongst the innovative, strategic initiatives by this august House to give programmatic effect to its constitutional mandate, namely, to represent provinces to ensure that provincial interests are taken into account in the national sphere of government. It does this mainly by participating in the national legislative processes and by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues affecting provinces, that is, the Constitution.
The key test of our success in terms of how history and the nation will judge us is not how many times we undertake provincial weeks or “Taking Parliament to the People”, but the extent to which we firmly place provincial interests in the national policy discourse and resource allocation. This is the key test arising from our constitutional mandate.
We can do all we are doing, but the extent to which we are fulfilling these core constitutional tasks, after we have done all that we are doing – having provincial week and oversight work by committees and Taking Parliament to the People – of making national policy discourse and resource allocation integrative of the issues that are coming from provinces will be the key test of the success of the NCOP. I think hon members agree with me in that particular respect.
I am not sure whether we are succeeding, and if we are succeeding, to what extent we are succeeding. What challenges are there, if we are succeeding, on this particular front?
Our ability to align policy priorities to the budgeting processes is critical for us as a House of Parliament that straddles the three spheres of government. It is only the NCOP that deals with the Division of Revenue Act. The Division of Revenue Act is a legal instrument that empowers Parliament to allocate resources to provinces and local government.
As and when we consider both the reports and recommendations of the Financial and Fiscal Commission, and as and when we consider the budget priorities of government, broadly speaking, hon Mkhaliphi and hon members, to what extent are we taking our minds back to all these things that we have done, to the issues and challenges that we have observed when we were in the Kgalagadi district to check whether, in terms of the allocation to the Northern Cape, these issues are being covered?
In terms of the observations that reveal some serious challenges in so far as infrastructure development is concerned in Limpopo, in terms of the challenges facing our communities whose lives are still defined by poverty, as we then engage with this Division of Revenue Act, to what extent are we taking our memories back to say that this is an ongoing, continuous process? It is linked to everything that we have done, but here is something whereby we are going to say that we are allocating the resources to these policy priorities.
What are these policy priorities? These policy priorities cannot be living. They cannot be living; they will remain academic to the extent that they are not able to change the material conditions of our people.
I think it is important that, from time to time, as we consider this report, we need to develop systems and mechanisms. We need to have a databank at all levels of the institution and at the level of the committees so that when we come to that critical point of either saying “yes” or “no”, we are actually able to ask on behalf of the community in Qwaqwa in the Free State, where almost 60% of the people are unemployed, how does this Division of Revenue Act impact on the lives of those people?
I think this is fundamental. This is how we are going to be judged. This is the issue of the impact that I am talking about. If we are not able to measure ourselves against those particular tests, we are just unchecked revolutionaries who enjoy philosophising and theorising while sitting on chairs in the library.
At this moment and at this hour at the midway point of our third democratic Parliament, and as the NCOP continues to reposition itself in the national political landscape of our country, we cannot be complacent about our position and our task. Many organisations have emerged with good visions, with good missions and good objectives, but their weakness is a lack of ability to continuously reflect on themselves and to continuously criticise themselves.
In terms of the language and the best traditions of the ANC, which is the only organisation on the whole continent that has witnessed 90 years, it is the ability to be self-critical that has enabled it to last for 90 years. Some are formed today, there is fanfare, and next year they are disbanded. So, any organisation that fails to criticise itself, that fails to hold itself up to the mirror and reflect on itself, is doomed to failure, hon Tolo. I think you will agree with me. I think this issue is no longer Marxist learning; it’s a conception. It is a reality of life.
If you read literature on organisational studies, in fact, most professors across the ideological spectrum agree on this fundamental aspect, including Professor Bici, of course. [Laughter.] I think it is important that at some point we pause. When we pause and begin to ask hard and pressing questions, for some who are complacent and who believe certain things are a given, when you talk about self-reflection and self-criticism, they think about opposition. It is not about opposition.
These are some of those hard and pressing questions: I think it is fundamental that all of us, collectively and individually, are seized with this question in everything that we do, and we must be frank in doing that. This question is: Are we making an impact on the lives of the people through this provincial week? This is a fundamental question. I don’t have an answer. I am just outlining issues so that maybe we should actually develop a framework on the basis of which we should reflect on these issues broadly.
The second issue which is critical in my view relates to our planning, co- ordination and agenda setting for the provincial week. Is this planning, co- ordination and agenda setting taking account of the diversity of our provinces? Let me give an example: I have spoken to some members of delegations. In my own feeble mind, I have got the view that Gauteng, in terms of 2010, is actually the best in the country. It may have challenges, but in terms of infrastructure for 2010, it is the best.
Therefore, if you are to do the co-ordination and plan provincial week, and define the agenda and objective of provincial week, is it not appropriate to then have a generic approach that says that we are going to deal with cows without looking at the diversity of the nine provinces? Is the issue of mad-cow disease on the agenda? Is the issue of mad-cow disease a national issue? Is it prevalent in all nine provinces? I am just giving an example.
I am saying that diversity and cohesion must always inform our approach to these things so that we become relevant, individually and collectively; individually in the sense that those individuals who go to their respective provinces to perform these tasks during provincial week are not asked hard questions, but are able to accelerate service delivery and transformation, because the issues that they are dealing with are relevant issues, living issues that are obtaining in that particular province. I think this is one of the critical strategic areas that we really need to examine and we must not shy away when we do these things.
I am asking whether issues arising from provincial week are being attended to. We need to ask this question. I know that the hon Shiceka is very vocal on this. Or are these issues just beginning here at this podium, and ending here as well, with nothing else happening? This is a fundamental question. It talks about ourselves, it talks about our systems, it talks about our planning; it talks about our structures, and it talks about our work, broadly speaking, in relation to how we better the lives of our people. It’s one of the fundamental issues which, I think, as we review our work in relation to this particular critical area, we should actually look into.
Related to the latter is whether we raise the relevant issues with the right authorities, particularly in the light – I want to emphasise this - of a multisphere system of governance. It is not taboo, but a fact that when you ask any Minister a question which, in terms of the constitutional mandate, is a core function of the local government, the Minister doesn’t answer that question on his own. What happens is that the Minister will write a letter to the authority concerned and get the answer.
Is that how we are dealing with it? Is that correct? In the reports that we are doing, have we been able to integrate issues that we think relate to fundamental national policy? There are shortfalls in the policy. Policy evolution resides with the national executive, but the implementation on certain aspects resides with local government and provincial government.
Isn’t it that at times we are wasting our issues by bombarding national Ministers with some of them? I think this is quite strategic and fundamental - by bombarding them, because as part of procedure, our multisphere system of governance is evolving. They cannot instruct the MECs, neither can they instruct the lawyers, but they write a letter and request, “Madam Mayor …”, “Madam MEC …” or “Hon MEC …”, “here are the issues the NCOP has raised. Can you attend to them?” The Minister is not empowered by law to go and wake that MEC – hon Tolo – and say “Do this for me!”
It therefore talks to us about how we ensure, on an ongoing basis and in a very robust and organic way, that we raise the right issues with the right authorities at the right time. I think it is one of the fundamental challenges that we must really examine as the NCOP.
Lastly, I think there’s space for consultation and canvassing of issues. Before arriving at the final theme, it’s a fundamental issue. It’s related to the first issue you have spoken about. By this space, I mean that chairpersons, in their own day-to-day functions, as leaders in their own right, get insight into certain critical information that can be transformed into knowledge to guide us on how to do certain things. I mean that the Whips occupy a central strategic position by being heads of delegations, and if there is no synergy between these two centres, in terms of conceptualisation and the setting of that agenda, the centre is not going to hold, and there will continue to be all these sorts of problems.
Let me cite another aspect related to this. Is what we are conceptualising relevant to the province or isn’t it? Hon Neels and hon Ralane there at the back will remember that one day we went to Qwaqwa because we had agreed, hon Mabe, that we would go to Qwaqwa because we thought it had certain challenges. Members of our legislature were saying that they respect their colleagues who are the MPs, etc, but the difficulty is that we were there last month on the self-same issues and that kind of thing.
These are the kinds of things. We must not take this thing as a machine where you press a button and everything will rock. We need to ensure that all the units, systems and structures are actually harnessed to be a robust machine that can plan and co-ordinate this provincial week. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s vote. Are all the delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Elethu. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyavuma. [In favour.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Ms E PRINS: We support.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT MONITORING COMMITTEE ON IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF LIFE AND STATUS OF WOMEN – VOTE 1: THE PRESIDENCY
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Report of JMC on Improvement of Quality of Life and
Status of Women)
Mrs E S MABE: House Chairperson, hon members, the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women has had its reports tabled on Budget Vote 1: The Presidency, and on the Appropriation Bill [B2-2007]. Both reports appear in the ATCs of 28 March 2007.
Therefore, the joint monitoring committee would like to request their adoption by the House. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order! Hon members, I am going to wait until you finish making a noise.
I shall now put the question in respect of the Third Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): In accordance with Rule 71 I shall now allow provinces the opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [Supports.] The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Ms E PRINS: Steun. [Supports.]
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
There was no debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order! I shall now put the question in respect of the Fourth Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): In accordance with Rule 71 I shall allow provinces the opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [In favour.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Ms E PRINS: Steun. [Supports.]
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE – ANNUAL REPORT 2006
Mr S SHICEKA: House Chairperson, special delegates and colleagues, I’m standing in front of you to present an annual report of the Constitutional Review Committee. In accordance with Rule 102 of the Joint Rules of Parliament, the mandate of the Constitutional Review Committee, which we call the CRC, is to review the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa annually and report to the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces. That is what I am doing now.
In terms of its mandate, the committee must invite the public to submit annually, on 30 days’ notice, written representation on any proposed constitutional amendment. Such notice has to be issued before the first day of May each year.
The committee must ensure that all representation submitted to it is given the necessary consideration so as to provide the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces with informed recommendations, as we are doing now. It must also deal with any specific referrals of a constitutional nature. The committee is established in accordance with Rule 97 of the Joint Rules of Parliament and consists of National Assembly members and NCOP members.
As the committee we have deliberated on these issues, which are not exhaustive in nature. Firstly, we talked about the Leader of the Opposition. Secondly, we talked about the convergence of the electronic media. Thirdly, we talked about animal protection. We also engaged on the equality review campaign and on the provisions of the interim constitutions that are still in operation. We also … savusa inyamazane … [… discovered something …] … on the issue of Chapter 9 institutions that needed to be reviewed. Others saw this being dealt with by Prof Kader Asmal. They do not know … ukuthi yavuswa ubani inyamazane. Inyamazane yavuswa yithi lapha kule komidi le-Constitutional Review Committee, CRC. [… who initiated this. We initiated this as the Constitutional Review Committee.]
Lastly, we dealt with the submission from the Free State provincial legislature, which requested that legislatures should be enlarged because they felt that in that province everybody was a leader; there was no follower.
The issues that are still outstanding in this respect are the issues around animal protection - we are still awaiting a briefing from the Department of Agriculture, and the issue that was raised by the Free State around the enlargement of provincial legislatures, because, as you know, Minister Mufamadi is involved in a process of developing a White Paper on provincial legislatures. Therefore, I think that that process must be allowed to take its course so that we can see where we go.
The challenge that we are faced with is whether we should continue calling for annual submissions in respect of the amendment of the Constitution in terms of the Joint Rules, or whether we need to look at a situation where this committee has to be reviewed. Or perhaps we must increase the number of years when submissions have to be considered.
The other aspect we must look at is whether this committee is making an impact. Has this committee managed to really review constitutions? This is something that we have been engaged on.
My view is that we must look at the relevance of this committee so that we are able to utilise the members to the best of their ability and move forward. That is what we are presenting in this meeting. I so move. I have concluded this Order of the Day. That is the conclusion of the report of the Constitutional Review Committee.
Regarding the next item on the agenda, I want to say that the committee met with DeafSA on 16 February. The reason for the meeting was to discuss the issue of a constitutional amendment. DeafSA is arguing that we must include sign language as the 12th language in our Constitution.
This delegation was led by Mr Druchen, who is the national director of the institution. Our views as the committee are as follows: Firstly, we agree with the view that the status quo is discriminatory and unacceptable because certain communities experience that they are not provided for in our Constitution, whilst they do exist.
The second view that we express is that we recognise that sign language must be accommodated as the 12th official language. However, this decision has budgetary and logistical implications. Therefore, we request the Minister in The Presidency, together with the Minister of Arts and Culture and the Minister of Education, to form a task team to look at the feasibility of amending the Constitution as requested by DeafSA.
Our last point is that the Pan South African Language Board should give credence to this issue. They must come back and report to Parliament in this respect.
As the committee, we wish to express our appreciation to DeafSA for the comprehensive and impressive report they gave us in terms of their motivation. We want to say that they must continue doing so. Parliament is their Parliament. It listens to everyone, even those who cannot speak in the way we speak as the majority. We believe that this matter will be responded to. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M N Oliphant): Siyabonga kumhlonishwa, uShiceka. Ngizobeka umbuzo ngokohla lwe-5. Umbuzo uthi ngabe siyawemukela yini lo mbiko osubekiwe kule Ndlu? Ngokwesahluko sama-65 soMthethosisekelo, ngizoqinisekisa ukuthi ngabe abahola izimenywa zezifundazwe bakhona yini lapha eNdlini.
NgokoMthetho wama-71, ngizonika ithuba izifundazwe ukuba zibeke iziphakamiso ngokwevoti uma zifisa. Sizoqhubeka-ke sivote. Uma sivota sizolandelisa ngokohla lweziqalo zamabizo ezifundazwe. Abahola izimenywa yibona-ke abazosho ukuthi ngabe isifundazwe siyawuvotela noma siyaphikisana nalo mbiko noma asivoti. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): We thank the hon Shiceka. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration? The delegation heads will say whether their provinces vote in favour, or against or abstain. We shall now proceed to the voting in alphabetical order.]
Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mnr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng? Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal re a e nthega. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ha yi seketela. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: eMpumalanga siyavuma. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Nyakatho Koloni?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Re a dumelana. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Nyakatho Ntshonalanga?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Ntshona Koloni?
Mr N J MACK: Steun. [Supports.]
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): With regard to the Sixth Order, the question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s votes. Are all delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal elethu. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ha yi seketela. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Siyavuma. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ADMINISTRATION ON INTERVENTION IN THE OUDTSHOORN MUNICIPALITY IN TERMS OF
SECTION 139(2) OF THE CONSTITUTION, 1996
Mr N J MACK: Chairperson and hon members, the President in his state of the nation address emphasised that we would continue to respond to the challenges and needs of municipalities and would undertake all necessary tasks to build a better life for all.
Local government is the closest to the people and best placed to deliver on bread-and-butter issues. Without proper administration and delivery mechanisms local government will fail in its primary responsibility. The Oudtshoorn Municipality was correctly placed under administration due to various factors, inter alia, allegations of instances of maladministration, noncompliance with statutory obligations, and serious malpractice. The alleged offences were ascribed to political instability and inexperienced political leadership. There were also instances of dereliction of duty, breaches of statutory prescriptions and administrative deficiencies.
The findings of the commission were that there was internal strife and conflict in the municipal council and within the administration. There was also an acute and destructive sense of distrust permeating the political and administrative structures of the municipality. The administrator appointed by the MEC drafted a recovery programme based on a strategy and planning exercise that was sustainable, attainable, measurable, resourced and time-framed. Although the intervention ends in September, the recovery programme will go beyond this date to ensure that it is sustainable.
The administrator has concluded that the municipality does not possess the financial ability to fund the recovery process on its own and will need funding from the Eden District Municipality, the provincial government, the Development Bank of Southern Africa and Ilima Trust.
Delegates of the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration conducted a visit to the Oudtshoorn Municipality in the Western Cape earlier this month. At our meeting with the councillors, municipal manager and administrator, the councillors had two views on the intervention: They supported the intervention by the province and reiterated that the intervention had brought normality, but should now be revoked. It was felt that the administrator should stay on to assist the newly elected municipal manager and elected and/or appointed people to continue with the day-to-day running of the municipality.
At our meetings with staff, unions, ward committees and other stakeholders, it was observed that all were in agreement that the intervention was a necessity and brought a sense of normality.
The ANC-led government will not tolerate any maladministration, racial divisions, or any other improperness in the smooth running of any tier of government and therefore applauds this intervention that has brought normality. The select committee applauds the outstanding work performed by Mr Louis Scheepers in the Oudtshoorn Municipality while it was under supervision in terms of section 139(2) of the Constitution.
The improvements registered during this difficult period in the life of the Oudtshoorn Municipality are a recognition of the hard work done by all people involved in ensuring that the Oudtshoorn Municipality succeeds in pursuing its developmental programme.
The capacity of the municipality to deliver on its mandate will be increased by the assistance of the recovery programme instituted in the hope of ensuring that the municipality truly becomes sustainable and self- sufficient in order to channel its focus on the programmes directed at improving the lives of the people.
The committee commends this shining example of selfless dedication to the People’s Contract, and further encourages the council, the community, the province and all involved to continue giving support for improved service delivery for the benefit of the community.
Therefore the committee urges this House to support the intervention.
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s votes. Are all delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Yes, hon Shiceka? Mr S SHICEKA: Chairperson, I’m standing here to amend the report, which must include the fact that we are proposing that the report be approved by the House so that it has legitimacy and standing in terms of support, and also in terms of the public and provincial and local government that must be able to utilise it. Thank you very much, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): I therefore put the question: That the report be adopted with the following amendment:
That the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration recommends that the Council approve the intervention.
In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Eastern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal votes in favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ha seketela. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Northern Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Western Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report, as amended, accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
REMINDER OF PEOPLE’S ASSEMBLY AT MBIZANA,
AND
ADDRESS BY FATHER S MKHATSHWA
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, before I adjourn this House, I just want to remind the hon members about the event that is going to take place as from Monday, the People’s Assembly at Mbizana in the Eastern Cape. I believe the members who will be participating have been informed, because not all members are going to attend. They have been informed through the various committees that we identified to participate in the People’s Assembly. I therefore urge all those members to attend the People’s Assembly.
The second issue is that I would like to remind you that we will have a brief address by Father Smangaliso Mkhatshwa as the president of United Cities and Local Government of Africa (UCLGA) immediately after I have adjourned this House. So immediately after I have adjourned the House there’s going to be a House committee.
The Council adjourned at 17:09. _______
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(6),
classified the following Bill as a section 76 Bill:
(a) National Environmental Management Amendment Bill [B 36 –
2007] (National Assembly– sec 76)
(2) The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(6),
classified the following Bill as a money Bill:
(a) Special Adjustments Appropriation Bill (2007/08 Financial
Year) [B 37 – 2007] (National Assembly– sec 77)
National Council of Provinces The Chairperson
- Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bill passed and transmitted
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 12 September 2007 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(a) Special Adjustments Appropriation Bill (2007/08 Financial
Year) [B 37 – 2007] (National Assembly– sec 77)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance
of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Social Development (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Development Agency (NDA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 159-2007].
-
The Minister of Health
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Health
Laboratory Service (NHLS) for 2006-2007, including the Report of
the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-
2007.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Tobacco Products Control Amendment Bill [B24B-2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 11 September 2007:
The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Tobacco Products Control Amendment Bill [B24B-2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems, dated 12 September 2007: The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament on Accession to the Framework Agreement for the International Collaboration on Research and Development of Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement. Report to be considered.
-
CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - Insert T070912 – insert PAGES – 1828- 1838
THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Bill passed by Houses– to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 13 September
2007:
(a) National Sport and Recreation Amendment Bill [B 17B – 2006]
(National Assembly – sec 75)
-
Translation of Bill submitted (1) The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
(a) Wysigingswetsontwerp op die Strafreg (Vonnisoplegging) [W 15 – 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75). This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Criminal Law (Sentencing) Amendment Bill [B 15 – 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75), as introduced in Parliament.
National Council of Provinces
The Chairperson
- Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed and transmitted
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 13 September 2007 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(a) Human Sciences Research Council Bill [B 16B – 2007]
(National Assembly– sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on
Education and Recreation of the National Council of Provinces.
(b) Astronomy Geographic Advantage Bill [B 17B – 2007]
(National Assembly– sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on
Education and Recreation of the National Council of Provinces. TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Safety and Security
(a) Report of the National Commissioner of the South African Police
Service (SAPS) for the period 1 January 2007 to 30 June 2007, in
terms of section 18(5)(d) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998 (Act
No 116 of 1998).
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill [Reprint] [B 6B – 2007] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 12 September 2007:
The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the subject of the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill [Reprint] [B 6B - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76(1)), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.
The committee wishes to further recommend, as follows:
That Provincial mandates on the Bills need to be signed by the Speaker of the Province. That Gauteng Province supported the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill although it had not been signed by neither the Speaker nor the Chairperson.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Repeal of the Black Administration Act and Amendment of Certain Laws Amendment Bill [B34-2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 11 September 2007:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Repeal of the Black Administration Act and Amendment of Certain Laws Amendment Bill [B34-2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.