National Council of Provinces - 06 March 2007
TUESDAY, 6 MARCH 2007 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 14:00.
The Chairperson of the NCOP took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I am informed that the Whippery have agreed that there will be no notices of motion, or motions without notice today, except for the motion on the Order Paper.
MATTERS RELATING TO VISIT TO GAUTENG
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I would like to move the motion printed in the name of the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces as follows:
That, in terms of Rule 21(2) and, in the interest of enhancing public participation, conducting oversight and providing a platform for consideration of issues affecting provinces as provided for in sections 42(4) and 72(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996 –
(1) the Council resolves to, from 12 to 16 March 2007, conduct public hearings, hold meetings, conduct oversight visits and sit in plenary in the province of Gauteng on 16 March 2007, at 09:00 until the conclusion of business on that day, and
(2) the Council notes that the estimated costs of effecting the change in venue and maintaining it for the specified period will be R2 730 000.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As there is no speakers’ list, we shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetic order per province. Delegation heads should please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State? Vrystaat? [Interjections.] Those operating the microphones there, can you assist us, please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Elethu. [We agree.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Mr J M SIBIYA: Steun. [Supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap steun. [Northern Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke a rona. [North West supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Can I just request the staff to, before any sitting, please check the systems in the House, because at times we have terrible difficulties in operating the system in the House. I don’t know what happened with the cards that the members used to put into the microphone, and then it used to work. [Interjections.]
You’re still putting it in, and it’s still not working? Can I please appeal to you on this matter, because this really disturbs the running of the House, and the recordings at the same time? If you could please take this up to assist the House.
Hon members, we shall now proceed to the questions as printed on the Order Paper. Deputy President, you are very welcome in this very small House, which is very big in terms of its work and what it is doing.
You are most welcome today in the NCOP to deal with the questions in the NCOP. QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
Review of government tender process in line with Asgisa
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Kgoshi L M Mokoena asked the Deputy President:
Whether the Government will review the tendering process in order to enable new entrants to access government tenders in accordance with the objectives of the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa (Asgisa); if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? C322E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chair, hon members, the reply to the question is that government is in the process of reviewing the tender process. Although the existing tendering procedures are designed to promote SMMEs, they have not had the desired impact, and that is why we are reviewing them.
We have, therefore, decided to set aside the procurement of certain identified items specifically for businesses that are owned by historically disadvantaged persons, especially SMMEs, in order to encourage the development of entrepreneurs among historically disadvantaged black persons and women. The Department of Trade and Industry has been given the responsibility to design this system and they have not yet reported back to the Cabinet with the details. As soon as the Cabinet has received a report from the DTI and has approved it, I will be glad to share the details with members.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any follow-up question? I don’t see hon Kgoshi Mokoena. I am aware that they are in Durban, Kwa-Zulu-Natal this week for oversight functions but I will allow some follow-up questions.
Mr A WATSON: Chair, with regard to the review that the Deputy President said is taking place or is going to take place, may I ask whether special attention is being given to the determinations of the public finance Act, more particularly the municipal finance Act and the regulations emanating from it and the public finance Act where management regulations prohibit any person earning a salary from the state, municipality or state organs from being considered in any way for tendering when it comes to state or municipal tenders?
I am asking this, in particular, because recently there has been more and more evidence in the papers that this is still taking place despite these recommendations being very pertinent. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is not a subject for discussion in this particular review. This is about procurement by historically disadvantaged persons. Of course, that will take into account the appropriate regulations to the extent that this review and the outcome thereof must not break any rule and regulation. But, yes, it’s not a specific mandate of this review.
Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, my follow-up question is: When reviewing this tendering process, are there any programmes in place that are aiming at empowering the previously disadvantaged, that is women and people with disabilities so that they can be able to participate in the whole process? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, hon member.
Initiatives under Asgisa to ensure appropriate training
2. Mr S Shiceka asked the Deputy President:
What initiatives are there under the Accelerated and Shared Growth
Initiative for South Africa (Asgisa) (a) to ensure that local
governments comply with the requirements of the relevant Sector
Education and Training Authority and effect expenditure on the
appropriate training and (b) to help people with disabilities benefit
from such appropriate training? C325E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson and hon members, there are no specific instructions under the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa to specifically ensure that local government complies with the requirement of the relevant Sector Education and Training Authority. However, this work is being done as part of government’s programme of action and as part of ongoing human resource development work. As hon members are aware, local governments and all other employers are required to pay 1% of employee remuneration to a Sector Education and Training Authority.
In the case of local government it should be the local government Seta which must then engage in workplace skills, planning and training. The course provided must meet certain standards and requirements which are outlined in the second phase of the National Skills Development Strategy. If the courses do not meet these requirements or a local government does not provide the necessary training, they forfeit the levy.
On the question of people with disabilities, the National Skills Development Strategy provides that 4% of learners have to be persons with disabilities. This we must monitor to ensure its implementation because as we speak now, across the board, we are underperforming with regard to empowerment, training and general implementation of the policies meant to affirm disabled persons. So, in the case of local government, they do not meet this requirement and they therefore cannot claim the levy. Let me conclude by saying we are aware that the public sector does not perform consistently and well, with regard to skills development. Several of the public sector aspects are amongst the weaker elements of the National Skills Development system. We cannot emphasise enough how important it is for public institutions, including national departments, provinces, municipalities and public entities, to take that to be their responsibility very seriously.
In fact, I would like to urge you, hon members, to assist us in this respect, to engage in your oversight work with our government entities to ensure that they do much more in training than they currently do. Thank you.
Roll-out of National Youth Service Volunteer Campaign
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Mr V V Z Windvoël asked the Deputy President:
(1) With regard to an effort to expand the rollout of the National Youth Service Volunteer Campaign (details furnished), (a) how many young people have registered for the campaign per province and (b) what criteria were used to identify young people to participate in the campaign;
(2) whether any measures were taken to ensure that young people with disabilities and those in child-headed households form the core of the beneficiaries of this campaign; if not, why not; if so, what measures? C326E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chair and hon members, hon Windvoël, I am not able to provide an up-to-date provincial breakdown on the number of young people who have registered for the National Youth Service Volunteer Campaign at this stage. We have not updated this information in accordance with our records. However, the national figure is in the region of 11 000 youths countrywide against the 5 000 targeted in the state of the nation address of 2006.
Provinces such as Gauteng, Eastern Cape, Free State and Western Cape contributed greatly to this achievement. I am therefore reluctant to be specific about the other provinces, just in case in I underrepresent them.
With regard to the criteria used to select volunteers, the National Youth Commission and provincial heads of commissions work with the community structures to identify young people already engaged in various community development activities as well as those with expressed interest in community service. In other words, hon member, in this programme we really engage with those young people who already have a disposition towards this kind of work. Of course, the more organised young people are, the easier it is to bring them on board.
As government, we are very concerned that, in this case, people with disabilities and child-headed households access all the necessary social services and social security. We are using the NYS volunteers to assist in this regard. I trust that hon members are ensuring that all people with disabilities and child-headed households in their constituencies are aware of the services they can access, on the one hand, but also to the extent that you can assist us to recruit more young people to play a role from youth constituencies. That also would be welcome.
Some work has been done by the National Youth Service Volunteer Campaign in realising the social needs of people with disabilities, for example the campaign organised special events like Christmas events in the Western Cape, and they facilitated a project in Gauteng which involved fine arts and presentation of Christmas gifts to the disabled people, in order to ensure that during that time of celebration they were also able to find some joy. However, these, as you would also agree, are not far-reaching programmes, this is scratching the surface and much can still be done.
We are also endeavouring to ensure that the disabled youth participate fully in the projects as volunteers themselves. This is very important to build their social capital and confidence in their abilities to exploit sustainable livelihoods. In this regard, I would like to urge hon members to also assist in ensuring that this, too, happens in their constituencies in the manner that is envisaged in the objectives of this programme.
In 2006, on World Disability Day, a national conference was held by disabled people. They produced a very detailed report whose outcomes we tend to use in order to close the gaps where policy implementation is failing. Thank you.
SOSISWEBHU WEMKHANDLU WEMAPROVINSI: Ngiyabonga, Mgcinisihlalo lohloniphekile. Ngibonga imphendvulo lesiyitfole kuSekela Mengameli. Sitawutsandza kutsi nasewuphotfuliwe lombiko liSekela laMongameli bese lisitfumelela wona lapha kuleNdlu Yemkhandlu Wemaprovinsi, kuze kutsi njengemalunga lachamuka etifundzeni letehlukene sikhone kwelekelela natsi sibe mdzibi ndzawonye kulomkhankhaso wekwetama kutsi lusha lube yincenye yaloluhlelo loluhamba nahulumende.
Angati-ke kutsi kumbe loko kungatsatsa sikhatsi lesidze kangakanani kuze kutsi, nakungenteka, sitsi siya kulerisese lesiya kuyo nyalo ngaMashi sibe sesinawo lowo mbiko kuze sisitakale ngawo. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)
[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Chairperson. I thank you for the answer we received from the Deputy President. We would like her, after this report has been finalised by the Deputy President, to forward it to this House, the National Council of Provinces, so that, as members from various provinces, we will also be able to assist and participate in this campaign of endeavouring to ensure that the youth are part of this government’s programme.
Well, I do not know how long that will take; if it is possible, by the time we go for recess, this March, the report may be available, so that it will help us. Thank you.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I take it that was more of a comment than a question, except that you wanted to know whether the report will be available before we go into recess. I don’t want to tell the Deputy President not to answer that, because I don’t know whether there is an answer to it. But, if the Deputy President wants to do so, that is fine.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Sihlalo, mangilitshele ilungu elihloniphekile impendulo ethi sengathi uMashi useduze kakhulu. [Chairperson, let me inform the hon member that it seems as if March is too soon.]
Khawundiphe nje ithuba lokuphefumla, ndiya kubuya nengxelo epheleleyo. Andifuni ukukunika ingxelo engaphelelanga.
Mnu D G MKONO: Mhlalingaphambili, ndiyabulela kuSekela-Mongameli ngokuthi ayikhankanye into yokuba noko iMpuma Koloni iqhubela phambili ekuncediseni ulutsha. Liphondo elinkqenkqeza phambili wena eliya, ndiyavuya ke ngoko xa oko kusaziwa naphaya phezulu.
Sekela-Mongameli, sekukho ngoku oovukengceni noozungulichele abasele bekhwaza besithi mayiphele le nkqubo yokubonelela ababevinjwe amathuba ngaphambili. Kanti ke thina sicinga ukuba isaqhuba kakuhle. Macebo mani urhulumente awaqulunqayo akhawulezayo ukwenzela ukuba aba bantwana bazifumane ngokukhawuleza ezi zakhono? Ngaba ikhona na imfuneko yokuba kube sekukho abantu abangxolayo ngoku besithi bafuna inkqubo yokubonelelwa kwababevinjwe amathuba ngaphambili iphele? Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[If you could give me some time, I will come up with a complete report. I don’t want to provide you with an incomplete report.
Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, I thank the Deputy President for mentioning that the Eastern Cape is making great strides in assisting the youth. It is a leading province, and I‘m happy that this is known even at the level of the Deputy President.
Deputy President, already there are people, opportunists, who, out of the blue, are calling for the scrapping of the affirmative action programme. On the contrary, we think that the programme is doing well. What sort of immediate plans is government putting together, so as to ensure that children do get these skills as soon as possible? Is it necessary for people to start agitating for the repeal of the affirmative action programme? [Thank you.]] The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think affirmative action is properly perceived when we call it “a correctional action”. Uma nje le nto esiyilungisayo ingakalungi, angazi ukuthi singayiyeka kanjani ngoba kukhona into esiyilungisayo, okungukungabi bikho kwabantu bethu ezindaweni okufanele ngabe bakuzo. Isibalo sabantu abamnyama abangomama abakhubazekileyo abangaphandle kwempilo enentuthuko siningi ngendlela engachazeki.
Uma abantu sebengaqala ukukhala bethi bona sebeyacwaswa, phela akukwazi ukuthi kube njengoba kwakunjalo kuqala ngoba sesibaningi okufanele singene ngaphakathi. Baningi abantu abamnyama abahleli ngaphandle abangakatholi lutho kanti baningi nabamhlophe abangakatholi lutho. Ngicabanga ukuthi into nje abantu abayikhalelayo ukuthi, “Nathi sesiyashayeka.” njengoba nabantu abamnyama babevele behlale beshayeka. Abakwazi ukuthwala usizi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[As long as what we are rectifying has not yet been rectified, I don’t understand how we can abandon it. What we are rectifying is the absence of our people in areas where they are supposed to be. The number of disabled black mothers who do not lead progressive lifestyles is just too high.
People cannot start to complain now and claim that they are discriminated against. They have to understand that things cannot remain as they were in the past because there are many people now who have to be taken care of. There are many black people as well as white people whose needs are still to be met. I think what people are complaining about is that they, too, claim that they are now suffering, just as black people have always been suffering. These people do not know how it feels to be miserable.]
The only thing that is left now is that there is a greater distribution of the burden and the challenges that the country is faced with.
Kunabantu abacabanga ukuthi bona kufanele njalo kube yizinto zabo ezihamba phambili. Izibalo ziyakhombisa ukuthi iningi labantu lapha eNingizimu Afrika abanemfundo ephakeme nenhle ngabantu abamhlophe, noma ngabe bebancane ngesibalo. Asisho ukuthi sibafela umona ngoba siyakujabulela nalokho, kodwa phela mabangakhali nabo, esikhundleni salokho mababambisane nathi ukuze nabantu abamnyama babheke phambili.
Uma sibheka abantu abaphethe imisebenzi, abantu abaningi abayizimenenja, abangama-CEO nabahlala emabhodini, yize noma bebancane, kodwa yibo abaningi kwabahleli emabhodini. Uma sibheka i-JSE, abantu abamnyama abenzi ngisho ama-5% kwezobunikazi. Kanti yini-ke le esikhala ngayo kahle hle? (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[There are people who think that they have to be given first preference at all times. Statistics show that the majority of people with good tertiary education in South Africa are white, even though they are the minority of the population. We are in no way jealous of them; on the contrary, we are also happy about their achievement, but they must not complain, instead they must work with us so that black people too could also progress.
If we look at the majority of the people occupying management positions at workplaces - many of whom are managers and CEOs, who also sit on boards of companies – they are white, even though they are the minority of the population. If we take the JSE, for instance, black people there do not even constitute 5% of company ownership. What is it that we are really complaining about?]
Njengoko le nto esithi siyayilungisa ingekalungiseki, lo msebenzi kufuneka uye phambili kwaye kufuneka uqiniswe. Enkosi. [As the matter we set out to address has not yet been successfully addressed, we should push ahead and redouble our efforts. [Thank you.]]
Expansion of youth development programmes in rural areas, and benefits of this for development of second economy
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Mr V V Z Windvoël asked the Deputy President:
(1) Whether the Government has put any measures in place to expand youth development programmes in rural areas and townships to ensure that they are integrated into the set targets of the national development programmes; if not, why not; if so, what measures;
(2) (a) what direct benefits do such measures have in relation to the Government’s interventions to develop the second economy through the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa (Asgisa) and (b) what progress is made by such initiatives in ensuring that this vulnerable group of our society has access to economic opportunities for sustainable livelihoods within their communities? C327E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, the reply to the question is as follows: In keeping with our commitments to extend government services to all the young people of South Africa, government, through the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, the Department of Labour and municipalities, has created service delivery platforms consisting of delivery channels such as the 120 youth advisory services that we now find around the country, the regional information centres, the multipurpose community centres, a dedicated call centre for young people, an sms-based system and labour centres. These are just some of the channels that are critical to the delivery of information to the young people.
It is our experience that most youth remain unemployed and out of school, unless they access adequate information and guidance about careers, local economic development, skills development opportunities, microfinance, entrepreneurship and other interventions necessary to help secure sustainable livelihoods. These access points have assisted us to reach out to young people in rural areas and previously underserved and deserving areas.
Beyond the provision of information services, I am happy to inform this House that many government programmes such as the programme for community development workers, the National Youth Service Programme, the Expanded Public Works Programme and learnerships, have all reached the youth in rural areas and townships.
In provinces like KwaZulu-Natal, we have Ithala, which provides support to the youth in communities which the private sector has ignored for a number of historical reasons.
The Eastern Cape has the Eastern Cape Development Corporation, which is reaching out to previously underserved communities and other provinces.
I would like to give some examples of some of the work that the National Youth Service Programme is doing with the rural youth. In Moses Kotane municipality, in North West, we have trained more than 500 youths as part of the National Youth Service Programme. The youth have built 2 621 houses in those communities.
In the villages of Mohlaletse in Limpopo, we have trained the youth in labour-intensive and road construction methods. Some of them are now working with various contractors within the district municipality as part of their exit opportunities and now they are going to be fully employed.
In the townships and rural areas of the Free State, we have trained hundreds of young people through the National Youth Service to provide home and community-based care.
In the Chris Hani District Municipality, working with the NGOs like People’s Trust, we have young people serving communities that need access to social services and poverty alleviation programmes through small-scale agriculture.
The FET College Recapitalisation Programme is transforming what used to be called vocational and technical colleges in rural areas and townships. We have allocated resources to upgrade the infrastructure and learning facilities for the sector that now enrols about half a million youth. We have allocated resources for colleges to employ qualified lecturers using up-to-date learning materials.
From this year onwards, government has introduced a bursary scheme for FET college students enrolled in scarce and critical disciplines. Government has also made bursaries available to young people who wish to pursue careers in education, health and social work. You will remember that these are also scarce skills for the Public Service that we have identified in Asgisa and Jipsa. This complements the financial assistance that we already have for students who are doing commerce, science and engineering who have enjoyed this support over a number of years.
I’d like to remind the hon members that the President announced in his state of the nation address last month that the government will accelerate the training of social workers at professional and auxiliary levels. He has also announced that resources would be allocated to provide financial assistance for trainees in the FETs. In fact, that has already happened.
The direct benefit of these interventions relates to the provision of relevant information and advice on careers and economic opportunities, which young people use to choose career paths and initiate their own income- generating activities. As we have said before, access to quality information, education and skill development is critical to build bridges between the first and the second economy. The examples of youth programmes outlined above are all part of second economy interventions outlined in the Asgisa strategy.
Whilst these interventions are at different stages of implementation, we are already recording positive results in terms of impact. As a result of the work of the labour centres and the youth advisory centres, young people are now choosing careers that match the opportunities in the labour market.
I certainly make it my business to talk to young people quite often, and I’m quite pleased that most of the time when we discuss issues of careers they are not looking and thinking about traditional careers. Sometimes they even ask me about things that I do not know myself, but I have to pretend, as if I know. But I am just so impressed at the extent to which they are venturing into things that people of my age group would maybe not have thought of. So, something is happening there.
Rural youth also are accessing business development support services and microfinance, thanks to some of the programmes that the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, and Umsobomvu are also bringing to the communities. The number of black youths qualifying as artisans and engineers will rise sharply because of these investments and the progress that we are making in relation to the teaching of maths and science in underprivileged schools, as well as with young people, therefore, proceeding to the FET sector.
Again, we can still do more. So, with all these examples that I’m giving and the success that I’m mentioning, I’m not implying that we must rest on our laurels - we still have to do much more. Thank you.
SOSISWEBHU WEMKHANDLU WEMAPROVINSI: Sihlalo, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngemphendvulo yeLisekela laMengameli. Ngiyetsemba kutsi iyasakha sonkhe lapha kuleNdlu ayakhi mine lengibute lombuto kuphela. Angati-ke nome ngitabe sengiyakwekhama yini, Sekela laMengameli, kutsi kungaba kuhle kakhulu nasingatfola loluhlu lwalamahhovisi ekweluleka lusha lotsi angu
- Loko kungasisita khona sitekwati kutsi njengobe sibuyela etifundzeni tetfu nje sikhone kutsi nasenta imisebenti lapha emiphakatsini sikhone kutsi sibakhombise bantfu labasha kutsi naliya lihhovisi nome indlu lapho ningakhona kutsi nisitakale khona. Ngifuna kutsi ingabe ngingabe sengiyakwekhama yini, Sekela Mengameli, nangicela kutsi loko kungaba kuhle sikutfole ngembili kwekutsi siye ekhefini, kurisese yanyalo ngaMashi? Ngiyabonga.
SEKELA MENGAMELI: Sihlalo, cha, utabe awungekhami. Ngingakwati kutsi nyalo ningakayi kurisese ngininike lowo mbiko. (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)
[The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, thank you very much for the Deputy President’s answer. I hope that it capacitates us all in this House, and not only me, who asked this question. Well, I do not know whether I would be putting pressure on you, Deputy President, but it would be appreciated if we could have this list of offices for youth advisory services that you said number 120. That could help us so that we would be able to know, as we are going back to our provinces, and to point out to the young people that there is an office or a house where they can receive assistance. I want to say, I wonder whether I would be putting pressure on you, Deputy President, if I requested that it would be appreciated if we received that before we adjourn for a break, this March recess? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, no, you will not be putting pressure on me. I would be able, right now before you go for recess, to give you the report.]
Rre A J L MOSEKI: Modulasetilo, ke ne ke re le nna ke tseye tšhono e, gore re lebogela tiro e ntle e e diriwang ke kantoro ya Mopresidente mo mananeong a. Fela re tlhagise gore go na le bokoanyana jo bo bonagalang mabapi le go fitlhelelwa ga tlhaeletsano ke ditlhopa tse di tobilweng tsa baagi ba kwa magaeng.
Re rata go tlhola le Motlatsa-Mporesidente gore a go ka kgonega gore ba ka tlhama lenaane tshedimosetso le le ka kgonang go fitlhelela batho ba rona kwa metseselegaeng, go matlafatsa tlhaeletsano gore batho ba rona ba nne le tshedimosetso e e tlhokagalang. Ke a leboga.
MOTLATSA-MOPRESIDENTE: Ke a dumela ntate, go na le mokgwa o re ka o dirang gore molaetsa ona, o bonwe, pele o ya kwa boikhutsong mo kgweding e. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A J L MOSEKI: Chairperson, may I also take this opportunity to commend the wonderful job done in these programmes by the Office of the President. But there is a little shortfall that we would like to point out regarding the targeted group in the rural areas who would like to access information.
We want to check with the Deputy President if it is possible to create information booklets that our people in the rural areas can have, in order to improve communication so that they will be able to have the necessary information. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I agree with that, Mr Moseki. There is a system that we can put in place so that information is delivered before you go on recess this month.]
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson and hon members, it’s almost a similar question. I was approached by my constituency – young people – asking me about the Public Works learnership programmes, which were probably introduced somewhere in the North West province. They indicated some interest. I am in charge of that responsibility.
Already this week I have had to phone the Director-General of Public Works and make these enquiries. Therefore, I appreciate the fact that the Deputy President has already said that before we rise, there will be some brochures which will indicate where these young people should go, because they wanted to know whether it was a once-off thing or whether they can still join the stream at this point in time. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I take it that was just a comment? [Interjections.] Thank you very much, hon Moatshe. Hon members, that concludes the business of the House. Before I adjourn the House, I just want to remind members to remain behind for about 20 minutes so that they can be briefed about Taking Parliament to the People in Gauteng. Staff members will be available to brief you quickly about the logistics and it will not be a long briefing. Thank you very much.
The Council adjourned at 14:34. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 28 FEBRUARY 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Introduction of Bill
(1) The Minister of Finance
a) Finance Bill [B 5 - 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec
77).
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
working days.
- Translation of Bill submitted
(1) The Minister of Sport and Recreation
a) Molao o Fetotsweng wa Institjhute ya Afrika Borwa wa Dipapadi
tse hlokang Dithethefatsi wa 2006 [B 7D – 2006] (National
Assembly –sec 75).
This is the official translation into Sesotho of the South African
Institute for Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7 – 2006]
(National Assembly – sec 75). 3. Bill passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 27 February 2007:
(a) Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 30B – 2006]
(National Assembly – sec 75).
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Finance
a) Government Notice No R.146 published in Government Gazette No 29644 dated 20 February 2007: Amendment of Treasury Regulations in terms of section 76 of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999).
-
The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
a) Draft Rules submitted by the Rules Board for Courts of Law, in terms of section 7(2)(c) of the Criminal Procedure Amendment Act, 2003 (Act No 42 of 2003).
b) Draft Rules submitted by the Rules Board for Courts of Law, in terms of section 79(3) of the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000 (Act No 2 of 2000).
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces
- Report of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the Instrument for the Amendment of the Constitution of the International Labour Organisation (ILO), 1997, dated 27 February 2007:
The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having
considered the Instrument for the Amendment of the Constitution of the
International Labour Organisation (ILO) tabled in terms of section 231
(2) of the Constitution, 1996, and the Explanatory Memorandum to the
Instrument, referred to it, recommends that the Council approve the
said Instrument.
Report to be considered.
THURSDAY, 1 MARCH 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
-
Classification of Bill by Joint Tagging Mechanism (1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism, on 1 March 2007 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6)(b), classified the following Bill as a section 75 Bill:
(a) South African Judicial Education Institute Bill [B 4 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75).
National Council of Provinces
The Chairperson
- Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed and transmitted
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 28 February 2007 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(a) Division of Revenue Bill [B 3 – 2007] (National Assembly –
sec 76)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of
the National Council of Provinces.
(2) Bill passed by National Assembly on 1 March 2007 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(a) South African Airways Bill [B 35B – 2006] (National
Assembly – sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Labour and
Public Enterprises of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Council of Provinces
- The Chairperson
The Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, as the
Chairperson of the Rules Committee of the Council, present the First
Report of the Rules Committee of the National Council of Provinces,
dated 27 February 2007, as follows:
To amend the definition of money bills to read as follows.
“money Bill” means a Bill to which section 77 of the Constitution
applies;
To amend rule 14A by insertion of the underlined words as follows.
Functions of the House Chairperson Committees
14A. (1) The House Chairperson Committees shall perform the
following functions-
(J) Consider and approve committees request for travel for
purposes of oversight.
To insert rule 46A with the underlined words as follows.
Reference to member by name
46A. No member shall refer to any member by his or her first name
or names only.
To amend rule 103 by insertion of the underlined words and deletion
of the words in bold as follows.
103. (1)
(2) A committee may sit at a venue beyond the seat of
Parliament, or on a day that is not a working day, or at
a time the Council is sitting, or during a recess of the
Council, -
(a) only with the permission of the House Chairperson
Committees [Chief Whip of the Council] after
consultation with the Chief Whip of the Council,
provincial whips and whips designated by parties; and
(b) with the approval of the Chairperson of the Council.
To insert rule 230A with the underlined words as follows.
Time for consideration of a Bill
230A. (1) The Council may not consider or pass a bill before at
least three working days have lapsed, since the committee’s
report was tabled;
(i) unless it is a bill before the House in terms of
rule 216 of the Joint Rules; or
(ii) an urgent bill before the House.
To insert rule 230B with the underlined words as follows.
Legislative cycle
230B 1. All section 76 or 74(1)(2) and (3) bills should be
dealt with in a manner that will ensure that provinces have
sufficient time to consider the bill and confer mandates.
2. Depending on the substance of the bill, the period
may not exceed four weeks.
3. In the event that the substance of the bill requires
sufficient time beyond the four-week period, the cycle may
be extended but may not exceed six weeks.
To insert rule 231 with the underlined words as follows.
Form of petitions
231A. Petitions must be in the form prescribed by the
Chairperson of the Council in accordance with guidelines
determined by the Subcommittee on Review of Rules.
Language of petitions
231B. A petition must be in one of the official languages.
Signing of petitions
231C.(1) Unless the Chairperson decides otherwise, every
petition must be signed by the petitioner themselves.
(2) Persons unable to write must make their mark on the
petition in the presence of two witnesses, who must sign
the petition in that capacity.
Lodging and approval by Chairperson of the Council
231D.(1) Each petition must be deposited for at least one day
with the Secretary, who must submit it to the
Chairperson of the Council for approval before it is
tabled in the Council.
Tabling
231E. If approved the Chairperson of the Council must table the
petition in the Council.
Referral of petitions to committees
231F. After tabling a petition in the Council, the Chairperson
of the Council must refer the petition to the Select
Committee on Members Legislative Proposal.
Powers of committee
231G. (1) A committee to which a petition has been referred,
may refer the subject matter of the petition to the
Executive or a particular department or other
administrative agency for further attention, subject to
the approval of the Chairperson of the Council.
(2) A committee considering a petition may recommend to
the House any course of action it deems fit and proper.
Petitioner and others to be informed
231H. The committee shall inform a petitioner of the decision or
other course of action with regard to a particular petition
and the reasons therefore.
To amend rule 236 by insertion of the underlined words and deletion
of the words in bold as follows.
Form of questions
236. (1) (a)
(c)
(2) Questions for oral reply are limited to four [two]
questions per member per day.
(3) A question for oral reply may not contain more than
five subdivisions.
(4) No more than six [four] questions for oral reply may
be put to a Minister in
respect of any one Government department on any particular
day.
To insert rule 244 to 255 with the underlined words as follows.
Part 3: Contempt
• Rule 1 to be amended to include the following definition in
the appropriate alphabetical position: “Act” means the Powers,
Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial
Legislatures Act, 2004
• Adopt new rules – possibly to replace Part 3 – providing as
follows:
Establishment
244. There is a standing committee in terms of section 12(2) of
the Powers, Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and
Provincial Legislatures Act, 2004
Composition
245.(1) The Committee consists of Council members appointed
in such a manner that
(a) the majority party has three representative; and
(b) two members, each of whom must belong to a different
minority party,
represent the minority parties.
Chairperson
246.(1) The Chairperson of the Council must appoint one of
the members of the Committee as the Chairperson of the
Committee.
(2) If the Chairperson of the Committee is not available the
remaining members must elect another member to act as
chairperson.
Meetings
247. The Chairperson of the Committee convenes meetings of the
Committee.
Functions and Powers
248. (1) The Chairperson of the Council may refer a matter to
the Disciplinary Committee.
(2) The Committee must enquire into and table a report
in the House on its findings and recommendations in
respect of any alleged misconduct or contempt of
Parliament as defined in section 13 of the Act, by any
member, except a breach of the Code of Conduct contained
in the Schedule to the Joint Rules.
(3) An enquiry by the Committee must follow the
procedure contained in the Schedule to the Rules.
(4) The Committee must recommend an appropriate penalty
in accordance with section 12(5) of the Act if it found
that a member is guilty of misconduct or contempt.
(5) The Committee must consider a request referred to it
in terms of section 25(2) of the Act.
(6) After receiving the request referred to in subrule
(5), the Committee must, without delay, forward a copy of
the complaint to the member or witness concerned, and
thereafter consider the complaint. In considering the
complaint the Committee may consider verbal or written
representations by the member or witness concerned.
(7) After considering the complaint, the Committee must
issue an appropriate response in the A.T.C.
Complaints by persons other than members
255. On receipt of a written complaint by a person, other than
a member, regarding a statement or remark made by a member
or a witness in or before the House or a committee, or by a
member of the House in or before a joint sitting or joint
committee, the Secretary must refer the complaint to the
Chairperson of the Council.
MONDAY, 5 MARCH 2007 ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Classification of Bill by Joint Tagging Mechanism
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism, on 1 March 2007 in terms of Joint
Rule 160(6)(b), classified the following Bill as a section 75
Bill:
(a) Convention on International Interests in Mobile Equipment
Bill [B 1 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75).
The Speaker
-
Membership of Assembly
1) The following member lost his seat in the National Assembly with effect from 14 December 2006:
Goniwe, M T.
2) The vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the death of Mr Z J Kati on 29 September 2006, has been filled with effect from 28 February 2007 by the nomination of Ms N M Twala.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Social Development
(a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Social Development for 2007 to 2010 [RP 23-2007].
(b) Strategic Plan of the National Development Agency (NDA) for 2006/07 to 2010/11 [RP 15-2007].
-
The Minister of Safety and Security
(a) Report of the National Commissioner of the South African Police Service (SAPS) for the period of July 2006 to December 2006, in terms of section 18(5)(d) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998 (Act No 116 of 1998).
-
The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs
(a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Land Affairs for 2007 to 2010.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
- Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the South African Red Cross Society and Legal Protection of Certain Emblems Bill [B25 – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 27 February 2007:
The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject
of the South African Red Cross Society and Legal Protection of Certain
Emblems Bill [B25 – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it
and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill,
reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
TUESDAY, 6 MARCH 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Classification of Bill by Joint Tagging Mechanism
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism, on 6 March 2007 in terms of Joint
Rule 160(6)(b), classified the following Bill as a section 77
Bill:
(a) Appropriation Bill [B 2 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec
77).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Social Development
(a) Strategic Plan of the South African Social Security Agency for 2007 to 2010 [RP 16-2007].
-
The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
(a) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the President’s Fund for 2004-2005 [RP 25-2006].
(b) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the President’s Fund for 2005-2006 [RP 252-2006].