TUESDAY, 23 OCTOBER 2007
                                ____

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:11.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                 SWEARING IN OF PERMANENT DELEGATES

                           (Announcement)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, I wish to announce that as a result of the floor-crossing period there were changes to the composition of the Western Cape provincial legislature. Subsequent to the conclusion of the floor-crossing period, the provincial legislature, as required by the Constitution, had to appoint their permanent delegates to the National Council of Provinces.

The following members were sworn in as permanent delegates in the NCOP in the Chairperson’s boardroom on 19 October 2007. They are the following members: the hon N D Ntwanambi, the hon N J Mack, the hon F Adams, the hon H Lamoela and the hon W M Douglas. Mr Douglas is a new member. Where are you, Mr Douglas? Stand up; let’s see you. [Applause.] Mr Douglas is from the ACDP – am I correct. Alright.

                    SWEARING IN OF MS D ROBINSON

                           (Announcement)

Due to unavailable circumstances, the hon Ms Robinson was not sworn in with the rest of the Western Cape delegation. I would like now to call on the hon Ms Robinson to approach the Table for the swearing in.

Hon members will be aware that this is a very complicated system in the NCOP. If there is a change in the legislature, even if one member is replaced, all old members in the NCOP must be sworn in. But, anyway, because it’s a change in that particular legislature therefore everybody has to be sworn in again.

Ms D Robinson was sworn in as a permanent delegate.

      WELCOMING OF GRADE 10 LEARNERS FROM ST JOSEPH HIGH SCHOOL

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, before we continue with our business, I want to announce the presence of Grade 10s from St Joseph High School in the gallery. [Applause.] Quite a number of them have expressed the wish that they want to be politicians one day. So be very careful, they are watching you from the gallery. They want to know what it is like to be a politician.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                     (The late Norman Mashabane)

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the ANC to move a motion without notice:

That the Council notes–

  1) with a great sense of loss the untimely passing  away  of  Comrade
     Fellow Fighter Norman Mashabane on that fateful Wednesday  evening
     of 10 October 2007;


  2) that  Comrade  Norman  Mashabane  was  a  member  of  the  Limpopo
     Provincial Legislature at the time of his passing away and that he
     served in our new democratic government in various  capacities  in
     his lifetime, including being an MEC  in  Limpopo,  Ambassador  to
     Indonesia and special adviser to the Premier;
  3) that Norman Mashabane cut his teeth in politics in the early 1970s
     and became part of the founding pioneers of the Congress of  South
     African Students, the founder and  leader  of  the  South  African
     Youth Congress and part  of  the  first  crop  of  the  leadership
     machinery of the African National Congress Youth League after  the
     unbanning of the liberation movement;


  4) that he  contributed  to  the  rebuilding  of  the  ANC  and  SACP
     structures and served  in  various  leadership  capacities  within
     these structures within Limpopo;


  5) that, as a  son  from  a  working-class  background,  Norman  also
     participated in and led  the  trade  union  movement  through  the
     National Union of Mineworkers;


  6) that he had a good grasp of the relationship between the  national
     and class contradictions within our national democratic revolution
     and appreciated the dialectic of unity and  the  struggle  of  the
     opposites which defines the tripartite alliance; and

  7) that Comrade Norman is survived by his wife and four children.

Mokgapa o mogolo o wele, dithaga tša lla botsororo. Ke a leboga. [Chairperson, I so move. I thank you.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 CONGRATULATIONS TO SPRINGBOK RUGBY TEAM ON WINNING RUGBY WORLD CUP

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr B J TOLO: Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council –

 1) congratulates Amabhokobhoko on winning the Rugby World Cup in France
    last Saturday;


 2) notes that the welcoming  of  the  team  today  at  O  R  Tambo  was
    electrifying;

 3) further notes the role that this winning has played in unifying  our
    nation;

 4) pledges to work for the sustenance and development  of  that  unity;
    and

           5) thanks the nation for  the  unwavering  support  for  the
              team. Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thank you, Chairperson. I was going to rise on the same motion, but our Rules don’t allow that – although I was going to do it on a much higher note than what Mr Tolo did. [Laughter.]

Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, I am rising on a very high note. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Not on the same motion, please!

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                        (The late Lucky Dube)

Mr E M SOGONI: No, I am rising on a very low note, Chairperson. I move without notice:

That the Council –

 1) notes –

    (a)      the brutal and senseless murder of one of the outstanding
           sons of Africa and a great ambassador of our people, Lucky
           Dube;


    (b)      that he was a legend who for many years preached peace,
           compassion and goodwill through his music and continued to
           inform the peoples of the world about the brutality of the
           apartheid regime and its forces; and


    (c)      that his music, which embodied his creative spirit, borne
           out of love for his country and the determination for a
           better South Africa, has earned him many accolades and
           captured the hearts of many people across the world; and


 2) takes this opportunity to express to the Dube family, especially
    his wife and children, its deepest condolences and to wish them
    strength in this trying and difficult moment.

May his soul rest in peace and his music and loving memory console us.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

               ELECTION OF ROTATING DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON

The Chairperson called for nominations.

Ms Elizabeth Dipuo Peters, seconded by Mr Ebrahim Rasool, nominated Mr Phaswana Sello Moloto for election as Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces.

The Returning Officer reported to the Chairperson that the nomination paper had been properly completed.

There being no further nominations, the Chairperson declared Mr Phaswana Sello Moloto duly elected Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces.

The ROTATING DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (Mr P S Moloto): Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. The leadership of the National Council of Provinces and all hon members of the House, it is my pleasure and privilege to be addressing you on this occasion on this important day of the election of the Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the House.

Obviously, this is not a new thing and I’m not the first to be elected. I’m going to learn from my colleagues who preceded me. I’m looking forward to hearing more about what the job entails when Mr S’bu Ndebele gives his last speech. Thank you. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL (Mr S Ndebele): Chairperson, I am happy to endorse the person that Premier Elizabeth Dipuo Peters and Premier Rasool proposed and we want to wish the new Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP a happy term of office. When the hon President, Thabo Mbeki, was addressing the NCOP earlier this year he said that it is our duty as the NCOP to inform citizens about the work of Parliament, to provide citizens with an opportunity to see Parliament in action and be able to speak to its members and members of the executive directly, to make citizens aware of the impact that public participation can have on political processes and to enhance the ability of the NCOP to oversee the implementation of national policies and programmes.

With the leadership that we have and the addition of Premier Moloto we are confident that this process will go forward powerfully. I wish to add my voice and thank you and thank the members for the support and understanding that I had in my stint as a Rotating Chairperson of this House. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Nksz B N DLULANE (Egameni leNkulumbuso yaseMpuma Koloni): Mgcinisihlalo, ndisukumela ukuthetha egameni likamama uNkulumbuso, uNosimo Balindlela. Siliphondo laseMpuma Koloni sithi “Huntshuu!” kuwe, Nkulumbuso Moloto. Singa esi sihlalo sijikelezayo onyulelwe kuso singade sizale into, mhlawumbi iqale ngawe lo.

Kudala sibanyula oosihlalo ababolekisana ngesikhundla, asizange khe sibone namnye kubo esiza kuthetha nathi. Ngoko ke siyiMpuma Koloni siyayinqwenela into yokuba kude kwenzeke into, singaninyuli nje kungabi kho nto yenzekayo. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.) [Ms B N DLULANE (On behalf of the Premier of the Eastern Cape): Chairperson, I rise to speak on behalf of Madam Premier, Nosimo Balindlela. As the Eastern Cape province, we say: “All the best” to you, Premier Moloto. May this rotating position that you have been appointed to bring with it new changes, beginning with your tenure.

We have been appointing rotating deputy chairpersons for quite a while now, but none of them has ever come here to address us. Therefore, as the Eastern Cape, we wish that something good could come out of your appointment, so that we do not just appoint you and nothing comes of it. Thanks. [Applause.]]

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, on behalf of the Free State I would like to congratulate the hon S Moloto, the Premier of Limpopo, on his election as the Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP and wish him everything of the best. Thank you, Chair.

Mr M NKOMFE (Gauteng): Comrade Chairperson, may I tender an apology for the Premier of Gauteng who could not be here. We take this opportunity to congratulate Premier Moloto on being elected as Rotating Chairperson of the NCOP.

We do want to raise two things: firstly, in the context of broadly reviewing our governance sector, we think that we should assess the impact and the effectiveness of this institution of Rotating Chairperson of the NCOP so that we suggest ways in which it could be effective. Members will know that the original purpose was also to bring the executive into the scene, so that it is briefed and mobilised with regard to what is happening in the NCOP. That we want to raise quite sharply.

Secondly, we want to strengthen our newly adopted six-week cycle in order to give provinces sufficient time to comply with their rules and those of the National Council of Provinces.

Once again, hon Premier Moloto, congratulations on your election as new Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF MPUMALANGA (Mr T Makwetla): Thank you very much for the opportunity, hon Chairperson. Hon members of the House, our Ministers, I also join the voice of those who have just congratulated the Premier of Limpopo, Phaswana Sello Moloto, on his appointment as Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP. In the same breath, I also want to congratulate the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, the hon S’bu Ndebebele, on what he considers a successful stint in the Chair. [Laughter.]

The business of today’s sitting, I believe once again, as the comments that have just been made, brings discomfort to many of us, members who are full- time delegates and the special delegates of this House. I say discomfort because of what one can refer to as a contradiction between theory and practice of the NCOP, a contradiction between the constitutional design and mandate of the NCOP as an institution and what has been established as practice over time.

We are here today to elect the Rotating Deputy Chairperson. The question that must be asked is: For what good reason is this House deciding to do so? I believe there must be a good reason why the Rotating Chairperson was conceived to be a necessary role-player in the proper functioning of the NCOP. But the practice, of course, has still to reveal the motive why, in the crafting of this institution, there was wisdom in having a Rotating Deputy Chairperson.

I have not learned, in the last three years that I have been a premier, much to understand what it is that the Rotating Deputy Chairperson does, such that, should I also be privileged to hold this seat, I’d actually know what is expected of me. [Laughter.]

When we celebrated the tenth anniversary of the NCOP, it gave many of us hope that some of these questions would be entertained and answers provided such that we actually got the NCOP to function in a manner in which we all understood, instead of just doing our duties by simply going through the motions.

Talk of a review of the 10 years offered us hope because, indeed, to avoid this discomfort that we are feeling here today, it is important that we do something that begins to add value to the institutions responsible for the democratic dispensation of this country. I believe that when the NCOP was conceived, it was with a very good reason that it would bring value and enrich our democracy, and this means that the challenge still remains. There is work to be done by the premiers who are leaders of the provincial delegates, the special delegates who from time to time visit these Chambers here and our full-time delegates. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, premier. By the way you were the only one from the North West who was at our summit for the whole two days, and once more I thank you for attending the summit. Your participation was great and I think together we can achieve a lot. Thank you very much.

The PREMIER OF THE NORTHERN CAPE (Ms D Peters): Chairperson, like my colleagues, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Premier of Limpopo, Mr Sello Moloto, on his election as the Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, and equally so I would like to really understand the role of this position. I also want to join others who are saying that we are in this ceremony called the “hello and goodbye ceremony”, saying hello to the new Rotating Deputy Chairperson and goodbye to the outgoing one.

I also still have to learn and to hear about experiences and lessons learnt by the previous Rotating Deputy Chairpersons. I would want a situation in which we can really have a platform from which we can hear from those who came before you, hon Sello Moloto, so that we will be able to say we can make a meaningful input through this particular Chairperson.

Premiers are leaders of delegations. Is it enough for us to come to the opening of Parliament, to come when there are joint sittings, to come when it is the NCOP outreach programme when the Deputy President or the President addresses the public and we go there and speak? We don’t even get feedback on the issues we raised on those particular platforms. I think it is important that we understand what the roles are of all the things we are doing.

It is important that we not only have a platform from which we can share experiences, but that we also share through your office - the office of the rotating Deputy Chairperson - inputs into the Rules Committee of the NCOP, because it is through that platform that the inputs of the executives in the provinces can be heard. I think it is important that we really start making meaningful inputs through the Chairperson’s or the Rotating Deputy Chairperson’s office.

I want to take this opportunity to congratulate you and to wish you well so that this time next year when we elect the next Rotating Deputy Chairperson we should not say once more “another rotating position” and then we just come here and say “I was once a Rotating Deputy Chairperson”, because one day we will arrive at a situation in which somebody says, “Thank you for nominating me, but I beg to decline” and we wouldn’t want to be in that position. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Premier. Next year this time we will be letting the Premier of Mpumalanga … [Laughter.] … be the next Deputy Rotating Chair.

Moruti P MOATSHE (Bokone Bophirima): Modulasetulo wa Khansele ya Bosetšhaba ya Diporofense ke tlisa maitato a Tonakgolo ya Bokone Bophirima. O reteletswe go goroga mo kokoanong e go tlisa malebo le masego ka ntlha ya mabaka a a se nang bothibelo.

Re le porofense ya Bokone Bophirima, re rata go tlisa keleletso masego go Tonakgolo Sello Molota ka go fiwa manno a go tshwara jaaka Motlatsa- Modulasetulo wa Thefosanyo, mme ra re go ena, tloga tloga e tloga kgale modisa wa kgomo o tswa natso sakeng. Tshwaragano ke maatla, tlhaeletsano ke lesedi. Pula! [Legofi.] (Translation of Setswana speech follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE (North West): Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, the Premier of the North West Province apologizes that due to circumstances beyond her control, she could not make it to this House to thank and to wish the Rotating Deputy Chairperson good luck.

We, the North West Province, wish Premier Sello Moloto good luck on his appointment as Rotating Deputy Chairperson, and we are saying to him, “The earliest bird catches the fattest worm”. Unity is strength, communication is the key. All of the best! [Applause.]]

The PREMIER OF THE WESTERN CAPE (Mr E Rasool): Chairperson and delegates to the National Council of Provinces, I join you in congratulating the Premier of Limpopo on being elected the Rotating Deputy Chairperson of this House. I also take the opportunity to thank his predecessor for holding this post, and if there is a measure of success it must be that he has not succeeded in his term to shift this House to KwaZulu-Natal. [Laughter.]

I want to join in the discussion on the logic of this position. What did those who conceived this position understand when they said that a member of the executive should hold this position? I think that the hon Premier Moloto assumes this position at a very important moment and can change the history of the position. I think that never before has the country discussed the role of provinces as much as it is doing now.

I think that there is a discussion that, to a large extent, takes place in the popular media about the number, the sizes and the combinations of provinces. I think that if there is an influential role for a member of the executive to use in this House, it is to bring this debate right into this House so that issues around functions, roles and a variety of other matters

• financing, revenue generation and those kinds of things - precede the issues of form that are shaping this debate.

I think that this is a matter that the House should grapple with, and I am hoping that the Rotating Deputy Chairperson will make it his business to ensure that this debate takes place in this House. I fear, though, that if he doesn’t do that, then the decisions will be imposed for us by some department called Treasury, which is beginning already to shape the future of the role of provinces. [Laughter.] I’m not here to pick a fight with the Minister of Finance, because history has taught me that you don’t make a judge angry and, in this case, Treasury should not be made unduly angry.

But, hon Rotating Deputy Chair, I think that this is a debate that should be held and the moment has never been better for it. So, if everyone is asking what your role is, I am putting an item on your agenda and you can make great history in bringing that debate to this House so that we can all discuss it objectively. Thank you very much and congratulations. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Premier Rasool. Hon members, that concludes the election proceedings, but that does not mean to say our hon premiers must leave. We are now getting to a very important session and that is questions to the Ministers. You are allowed to participate by asking follow-up questions. That is part of the job of a leader or a head of a delegation, so you are allowed to do that.

Debate concluded.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

                              ECONOMICS
                              Cluster 3

MINISTERS:

   Countermeasures to curb baggage theft and pilferage at OR Tambo
                        International Airport

1. Mr C J van Rooyen (ANC) asked the Minister of Transport:

   (1) Whether, in light of the seemingly frequently reported incidents of baggage theft and pilferage at the O R Tambo International Airport, the Airports Company of South Africa (ACSA) has taken any countermeasures to curb criminal activities; if not, why not; if so, what measures;

   (2) how is his department assisting in this regard? CO539E

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Thanks, Chair. Let me join the House in congratulating Amabhokobhoko – Viva, Mabhokobhoko, Viva!

HON MEMBERS: Viva!

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: The reply to the question is as follows: Baggage handling at airports involves three main parties, namely the airlines, who are responsible for accepting checked baggage and have to ensure that it is returned to the relevant passengers; baggage handling companies that are contracted by airlines; and the Airports Company of SA, Acsa, that provides infrastructure.

Acsa, in particular, recognises baggage pilferage as an issue of major concern and works closely with all airlines, the SA Police Service and baggage handlers in a co-operative way to ensure that passenger baggage is secured. Due to the significant passenger growth at all Acsa airports of around 16% this year and increased volume of bags, additional security measures were introduced. These include, among other things, regular crime blitz operations. Personnel involved in criminal activities are being arrested and dismissed, their work permits confiscated and blacklisted, ensuring that they will not be allowed to work at the airport again.

At O R Tambo International Airport, all airside staff members make use of single-gate entry and exit, where they are searched on entry and exit. We also use X-ray machines so that their belongings can be checked. A new access permit system has also been introduced, allowing only authorised individuals access to baggage areas.

Ongoing prevention operations include visible policing at all baggage screening points as well as undercover operations. Covert closed-circuit television cameras are installed in all baggage areas and all staff members wear uniforms which contain a company code and personnel number for better identification in the surveillance system.

Airlines are also encouraged to let their own staff supervise the loading of aircraft baggage containers and to escort containers to and from aircraft. Baggage statistics are compiled and received from the airlines regularly, which assists in analysing trends and planning.

A baggage reaction unit and pilferage committee continually works with all airlines to improve Acsa’s security performance. The Department of Transport, through the Chief: Civil Aviation Security is constantly giving Acsa strategic direction on addressing all those challenges. This is done through the strengthening of the local airport security committees.

The Chief: Civil Aviation Security is also, at present, engaged in a policy direction on how to define the future roles of private companies, airlines and Acsa in an attempt to minimise the number of activities of private companies handling the baggage at our airports. Thank you.

Mr O M THETJENG: Thank you, Chairperson. I just want to check with the Minister whether Acsa as a company is willing to provide, as an extended security measure or surveillance system, the closed-circuit televisions, because some of us that have lost luggage through pilferage, when we checked, were told that such a system was not available and that the employees there were not really identifiable either. The actual question is: Is there any plan for Acsa to provide the closed-circuit televisions so that they are actually able to identify the culprits? If so, how soon can that be done?

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chairperson, I indicated in my reply that those CCTV cameras are available and that staff members – even those that come from the private sector - have to wear their uniforms with company codes so that we can identify them. That system has been installed, especially at O R Tambo International Airport, and is being installed in other airports as well.

Challenges faced by communities forming a trust other than a communal
                        property association

1. Kgoshi M L Mokoena (ANC) asked the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs: (1) (a) What challenges were faced by communities that decided to form a trust other than the communal property association after successfully claiming back their land and (b) how will her department advise communities in the future;

   (2) whether she will make a statement on the matter? CO2458E

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, the response to part 1(a) is: The challenges of a trust other than a communal property association are the nature of the trust, where the board of trustees sometimes makes decisions without consulting the claimant community, which is unacceptable, and possible fraud and self-enrichment by the board of trustees sometimes result from that.

Secondly, to address these challenges we arranged training workshops for legal entities of the relevant claimant communities. The training includes issues of governance, leadership, financial management, organisational development, group dynamics and technical assistance.

We are advising claimant communities to opt for a communal property association precisely because the Communal Property Associations Act, Act 28 of 1996, gives the director-general of the Department of Land Affairs the power to intervene should there be problems within the CPA. This is not the case with a trust, because it is almost impossible to intervene in a trust. The response to the second part of the question is: no. Thank you, Chair.

Reports of abuse of farmworkers in North West involving unfair dismissals and killings

1. Ms M P Themba (ANC) asked the Minister of Labour:

   Whether his department has had any reports of abuse of farmworkers in North West involving unfair dismissals and killings; if not, what measures are in place to prevent unfair labour practices in respect of farmworkers; if so, what steps has his department taken to (a) follow up on the matter and (b) prevent these incidents from happening in the future? CO2459E

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, I also want to congratulate my Premier from Limpopo on being nominated and elected as the rotating Chair. I hope he is going to rotate very well … [Laughter.] … because this reminds me of a young boy who was dodging school when I was still a teacher. When I asked him why he was dodging school, he said he was waiting for the school because the geography teacher said that the earth was rotating. [Laughter.] So, it may well be that we will wait for Sello to rotate, and until that happens you won’t see him again.

The department has received reports of abuse of farmworkers in the North West province, allegedly involving some unfair dismissals and killings. The reports of abuse are received from time to time at different labour centres. Some of the cases of abuse are reported to labour inspectors and dealt with during inspections.

Basically, as an ongoing measure to prevent and address the complaints, the inspectors are continually visiting farms to provide advice and information to farmworkers and farmers, as well as to conduct routine inspections. In some instances, we have what we call reactive inspections that we conduct when we receive specific complaints.

In addition, proactive inspections in the form of what we call blitz inspections are conducted. The recent ones were from 3 September to 7 September this year. In the department in the North West, the blitz was conducted in the agricultural sector, and during that period we managed to visit over 300 farms. We found that some of the farmers actually are not as bad as others. We found many good farmers, but there are also bad farmers.

I raise this deliberately because it is important that we expose the bad farmer, so that we don’t tar all the farmers with the same brush. That is a very dangerous thing to do.

In instances in which farmers are found not to be complying with the laws and regulations relating to safety and other conditions of employment, relevant contravention notices and compliance orders are issued. In some cases, the police are involved and prosecutions are sometimes recommended.

Coincidentally, the blitz was conducted just around the period during which the reports of killings, cases of abuse and unfair labour practices on farms were circulated by Cosatu in the media. Ultimately, Cosatu also served the North West department of safety and security with a memorandum highlighting the cases of abuse, evictions and other complaints pertaining to farmworkers.

There are many examples that I can give. One of them was raised by Cosatu in their memorandum – I am just saying to hon members that I spend a lot of time also reading memorandums that are delivered to my office, and we do something about them. Those who are communists will know that communists do something about any criticism that they may get. We don’t defend ourselves. We do something about it. If you do defend yourself, you are not a proper communist.

A complaint was made regarding assaults of certain farmworkers with regard to Mr Pitse. The department confirmed that a charge of assault was laid with the police on this matter. The farm is in the area of Delareyville. I am trying to avoid De La Rey, in case you think of the song. On 3 October 2007 the inspectors visited this farm to investigate possible labour-related issues. Due to the ongoing court case and other commitments, we have secured an appointment for 18 October 2007. So, this farm will be visited again, because currently he is ping-ponging between his farm and the court.

Also, a case concerning the death of a farmworker, Mr Jan Molefe, was reported to the department directly and a preliminary investigation was conducted on 20 September 2007. A formal investigation is currently under way, and we hope to finalise this matter by the end of this month. As you know, we would then forward the report to the Director of Public Prosecutions for a final decision on the way forward, as is normally the case with all fatal workplace incidents.

A case involving unfair dismissal and eviction of Mr Motswapuleng and Mrs Ditsebe was also reported. In some cases, like this one, the employees do not come forward to report and it takes a while before the department is able to acquire full details of the issues and parties. The report regarding illegal evictions has been brought to the attention of the Department of Land Affairs.

We also have the case of Bereng versus Van Heerden. This is another example of a recent case that was investigated and forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions for a final decision. The case was about a fatal incident in which a farmworker was killed by a revolving, not rotating, PTO shaft at a farm in the Stella/Vryburg area. The incident happened around June 2006. The judgment in this matter was delivered on 15 October 2007. The accused in the matter was acquitted of a charge of culpable homicide and found not guilty.

These are some of the things that we sometimes experience. Unfortunately, I don’t control courts; I don’t control judges. You all know what judgements judges can deliver and they will always claim that they know the law better, even if a person died. It doesn’t matter how many witnesses you have.

But the deceased in the Bereng case was below 18 at the time of his death. While the state was requested to include a charge of child labour, the technicalities and seriousness of the culpable homicide matter could not allow, at the time, enough time to prepare for this charge, because this is something to be further pursued now that the case has come to an end. We will then pursue the other charge of employing a child. We are trying to really make sure that this Van Heerden goes to jail. We will do whatever it takes under the sun to bring the case back, because he did employ a child.

Two years ago there was also a case of child labour detected and investigated by labour inspectors in the Vryburg region, where the employer was convicted and given an option of a fine of R15 000, of which R8 000 was suspended for five years, or a one-year jail sentence. Only those who work in those areas, like Chief Mokoena, understand them. I don’t understand what it means when there is an option of a fine of R15 000, with R8 000 of it being suspended for five years. I do not understand those things as I am a just a primary school teacher. So I don’t understand such scary things. [Laughter.] But we did our work. [Interjections.] I am a registered teacher, my brother.

As part of strategies to address labour-market-related issues, the Department of Labour in the North West established a tripartite structure in 2003, which we call the North West Labour Market Co-ordinating Forum, to promote dialogue and foster co-operation among the members.

The main purpose of this forum is to co-ordinate the effective implementation of labour legislation in the province. It consists of government, represented by the Department of Labour, the CCMA, labour, represented by Cosatu, Nactu, Fedusa, as well as business, represented by various chambers in the province, which include Agri North West, BMF, Nafcoc and Westvaal. This forum meets on a regular basis.

In conclusion, as a way of directly addressing the current issues, the provincial executive manager of the North West province and his team held a meeting with the chief executive officer of Agri North West on 26 September 2007 to discuss and seek solutions to the challenges that face the agricultural sector in that province. Amongst other issues raised was the need to create a structure consisting of Agri North West, organised labour, the Department of Labour and other sector departments like Land Affairs, Justice and the SAPS, to deal specifically with issues of abuse, evictions and retrenchments on the farms. I will table part of the answer, Chairperson. Thank you.

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, it is interesting for me to hear what the Department of Labour is doing around the Brits constituency. But I have some reservations in that the farmworkers around the area are not being served accordingly by the Department of Labour. There are really serious problems where there is no communication between the labour department and the workers on the ground.

I would ask the Minister whether it will be allowed for one to ask for the reports from the labour department quite often so that we, as constituencies, can do follow-ups of the incidents happening around the area. This would also enable us to do oversight over the department, so that work is done on the ground.

I have requested the department several times to visit in order to do some checkups. I have realised that when that is not done, there are no regular checkups, even in business areas in town and other areas as well, and people are really crying very hard. Thank you, Chair.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, I want to advise hon Members of Parliament to do what I used to do when I was working in the informal settlement of KTC. I was a policeman, a judge, a social worker, a teacher and virtually everything. If there was a problem of crime, I used to get in touch with the commander of the police station in the area. They know me very well - that there is that MP who used to give us problems.

I used to visit workplaces in the area. There are not many, but in the Philippi area there were a number of farms that we used to visit. There were even cement works there, and the manager knew who Mdladlana was. I don’t have a beautiful surname, and that probably scares people.

I will advise Members of Parliament that it doesn’t help to wait for the Department of Labour when South Africa has 47 million people. We only have 8 000 staf, and out of that there are only a mere 1 000 inspectors. The only route that can help us, as I was indicating, is a body like Cosatu, for instance, which submitted documentation to us and in terms of which we were able to follow it up. That is all that I need.

Members of Parliament do not even have to go to the offices of the Department of Labour. They have access to 120 Plein Street, Number 18, where they can submit a dossier and we will follow it up. There are many Members of Parliament who have done that. If they are willing to stand up, they can testify to this effect. I respect the information that I get from them and I will not quote their names. We just follow up on the things that hon members give us. That’s all.

We will only succeed if we work together. For instance, here we are proposing that there must be a forum which will involve Agri North West, organised labour, the Department of Labour and other sectors, because in some of these forums we find people evicted from the farms, and that has nothing to do with the Labour Relations Act per se. It therefore means two departments must work together.

When I went to the north of KwaZulu-Natal, to places such as Dannhauser, Newcastle and Vryheid, I actually discovered that some of the farmers in that area are members of the SAPS and some are also magistrates. Therefore, you report to your buddy … You know what I mean. And then, as a result, we end up with this difficulty.

I crisscrossed that area together with the late MEC for agriculture in Kwazulu-Natal, Dumisani Makhaye - may his soul rest in peace. It helped. The only absence was from the police. People in those areas still want the police to come, together with labour and agriculture, and in some way we will manage to rock that area.

I know that we have not managed to resolve all the problems there. So, I am really appealing that we work together in order to resolve some of these problems that affect our people. The cherry on top is that all I will need from you - any Member of Parliament in the constituency in which he or she is - is to say you have collected workers in your area and you want an official of the Department of Labour to come and address them about their rights.

I will provide a car and accommodation for the official, never mind what the DA says about how much we pay and how much we pay for the teas that we provide them. I will provide them with accommodation because that is our job … [Interjections.] … and lunch as well, yes Ma’am. [Laughter.] I do not control prices either. That a loaf of bread was R30 last year and this year is R60 is not a matter that is controlled by me, but it helps me to implement socialist policies in future so that I can control prices. Thanks to the DA for giving me an idea.

But, otherwise, all Members of Parliament can invite us. We are more than willing to assist you in your constituency. Just provide people and tell us where they are. The ANC Women’s League has done it; the ANC’s Youth League has done that. I can name all other people who have done this. Please do it. [Interjections.] Everybody did it.

Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I am also a farmer, so I was quite delighted to hear that there are some good farmers as well. What I would like to know from the Minister is: How does the Minister judge the farmers in general as a percentage? How many are good farmers, and how many are bad farmers? I would also like to ask him why the bad farmers aren’t charged in court. Why do we see so few of these farmers actually being put in front of a magistrate or a judge? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, I hope the hon member …

… het lekker geluister … [… listened nicely … ]

… if there is such a word in Afrikaans.

Ons moet luister. [We need to listen.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hulle sê “goed luister,” nie “lekker” nie. [They say “goed luister” (listen carefully) and not “lekker luister” (listen nicely).]

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Goed! Aandag! Gedagtes! Dit maak ons oop! [Good! Attention! Thoughts! Open your minds!]

I did say that we have taken these farmers to court and I did say some were fined, and I did say some received sentences suspended for five years. I did say that. Therefore we do take them to court, but there are other problems that you find in court. When a person receives a suspended sentence for killing someone, what do you do? There’s nothing that I can do. However, there is work that you and I can do, because if we don’t work together and talk to our people together, we are going to get into difficulties, because you yourself will become a bad farmer because of a bad farmer.

So, the good one must influence the bad one. That is why I don’t preach the gospel of hell. I preach the gospel of heaven. I don’t want to participate in anything that has hell in it. So, if you are a good farmer, work with me so that we promote the things of the Kingdom of God. Those other farmers will come back when they see the good that we ourselves do.

We indicated also, hon member, that in the visits to the North West province, we inspected over 300 farms. We found that 252 farms were making a great attempt to comply with the law, but we have these 113 which are creating the problem out of the 366 farms. Therefore, we must deal with these 113, because the media does not pick up on the 252 that are doing well. It picks up on the 113 that are doing badly, because that is what sells in the media. That is what is juicy for journalists, and not the good stuff.

I hope that, one day, I will go with some of the journalists to heaven. Hallelujah!

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, I hope this falls within the scope of the question raised. There is a member who was dismissed from the labour department in my constituency, and the matter was taken to the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration. This person managed to receive a ruling that he must go back to work, but the department appealed to the Labour Court – I don’t know the wording they use, “revision” or something like that. This dragged on for about three to four years before it could be taken up - until the time that this person came to the constituency offices to report this matter to us. Then I had to help this person so that the matter could be revived once more.

It was taken to the Labour Court where the Labour Court decided that the person should be reimbursed for at least 12 months, but should not be reinstated. We had a problem with that – that he was not to be reinstated. But it is now about six months later and the money that was agreed would be paid to this person has not been paid, even up to now. That gives me a very serious problem as a person working in a particular constituency, trying to help the people at that level. I mention this because it is really frustrating.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I don’t want to go to hell. I want to go to heaven, but that follow-up question has nothing to do with the question before us. In my good-spirited heart, I want to ask the Minister whether he really wants to get into that, but it has nothing to do with the question before us.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: You’re right, it has nothing to do with the question. I am just as frustrated as he is. What frustrates me is what he says, because I have made an offer. However, I have some idea about the case so, honestly, if it is said, hon member, that that person must be refunded or reimbursed but not re-employed, I have no control over some of these court issues. The only thing I can offer, if this House were to allow me, is that I will tell this House what that person has done. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You don’t have to get into that.

Measures to ensure continued utilisation of noncore assets disposed of by state-owned enterprises

1. Ms M P Themba (ANC) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   Whether, in light of the fact that state-owned enterprises are now focusing on their core businesses and embarking on the disposal of noncore assets, any measures are in place to ensure that the disposed assets continue to be utilised in order to keep services accessible to the people through sustainable job creation; if not, why not; if so, what measures? CO2460E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Chairperson, I must echo the words of the previous speakers by extending condolences to the Dube family and, indeed, call on the nation to come together and unite in fighting crime in this country. I also want to congratulate Premier Moloto on taking up the Rotating Deputy Chairpersonship of the NCOP. Hopefully, as the representative from the Eastern Cape indicated, it will be a different kind of rotation.

Last, but not the least, I would like to congratulate Amabhokobhoko, as a mother, for their invaluable contribution to nation-building.

Chair, I want to make a request upfront, that members must feel free to come up with follow-up questions. If they are very difficult for me, I will note them down and pass them on to the Minister.

The response to the question is as follows: The disposal of noncore assets provides a key opportunity to create employment and reduce poverty, particularly through advancing broad-based economic empowerment.

As the custodians of a significant proportion of state property, the department and its state-owned enterprises are committed to implementing deliberate measures to increase black participation in the economy and to ensure that the benefits from asset disposal are broad-based. We hope that they are broad-based in the true sense of the word and that no fronting is happening, because that is a problem: fronting; rent-a-black. It’s happening even in Minerals and Energy.

In this regard, the department developed broad-based black economic empowerment guidelines to direct the disposal of noncore assets, which are available on the website of the department. Any enterprise bidding for state-owned enterprise property will need to supply a broad-based black economic empowerment verification certificate from an accredited verification agency.

Alternatively, until such time as accreditation by Sanas, the SA National Accreditation System, of BEE verification agencies has taken place, enterprises may self-verify under oath using the DPE self-assessment tool - linzima eli gama [this is a tongue twister] - toolkit, which is also on our website, or obtain assistance from a verification agency or BEE consultant.

To ensure transparency and maximise participation, the noncore properties for disposal will be advertised extensively in tender bulletins and local newspapers. Thank you very much, Chair.

    Developments regarding the financial stability of SA Airways

1. Mr D D Gamede (ANC) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   Whether there has been any positive developments regarding the financial stability of the SA Airways in view of the focused effort to meet the funding requirements and to recapitalise the turnaround strategy for SAA; if not; why not, if so, what are the relevant details? CO2462E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Mr Gamede, the answer to your question on SA Airways is as follows: The SA Airways management has compiled a corporate plan for the financial years 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10, which contains a forecast for business based upon the implementation of the turnaround strategy.

The interim results of the SAA for the six months ending on 30 September 2007 indicate positive financial results in that the SAA has achieved a profit of R136 million from ongoing airline operations. I think the Minister of Finance is listening with interest because we are talking profits here, and not deficits.

In comparison with the previous year, revenues have increased by R1,4 billion, whilst operating costs have only increased by R556 million.

After depreciation, amortisation, interests and forex adjustments, the bottom line of R136 million compares favourably with the loss for the same period last year of R691 million, and is R374 million better than budgeted. After once-off restructuring costs of R56 million, relating primarily to retrenchment costs, the airline is reporting a bottom-line profit to date of R80 million. The cash position of the airline has also stabilised. On 30 September, it amounted to R2,8 billion.

There are nearly 70 significant restructuring projects currently under way at SAA. Several of the smaller projects have already been implemented with great success. However, SAA will start to see the results of the more significant projects between now and the financial year ending on 31 March 2008.

The two most significant items in this period are related to labour restructuring and the grounding of the remaining five Boeing 747-400 aircraft. Discussions regarding the B747-400s have reached an advanced stage.

The senior management of SAA is currently in negotiations with the SA Airways’ unions regarding conditions of employment. I hope that Minister Mdladlana is involved or is aware of these negotiations.

The SA Airways believes that it has taken the first steps towards financial stability and the creation of a commercially focused airline business, which, in the long term, will be financially sustainable. I so respond. Thank you, Chair.

Measures taken and challenges encountered in implementing settlement
             agreement made with Richtersveld community

1. Ms M P Themba (ANC) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   (1) What measures has his department taken to expedite the implementation of the settlement agreement that was made on 22 April 2007 with the Richtersveld community;

   (2) whether his department has encountered any challenges in implementing the settlement agreement; if so, how were they dealt with? CO2463E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Chairperson, the representatives of the Richtersveld community, Alexkor, the Department of Public Enterprises and their respective legal representatives set up a settlement implementation committee on 12 June 2007. This committee assigns responsibility within delineated timelines to ensure the efficient implementation of the settlement and has been meeting regularly to monitor progress made on the various activities.

These activities include the following: Firstly, a four-person committee contemplated in the deed of settlement was appointed and has finalised an inventory of all movable agricultural and maricultural assets of Alexkor to be delivered to the Richtersveld community. The transfer of these assets is imminent.

Secondly, interim managers have been appointed by the Richtersveld community and have been given access to the farms in order to prepare for the planting season. Funds for the project costs of the interim management of the agricultural enterprises are at R700 000 and this has been paid in trust to the attorneys of the Richtersveld community.

Thirdly, the R50 million development grant has been paid in trust to the attorneys of the Richtersveld community, subject to conditions set by the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs and accepted by the attorneys. These monies are earmarked for recapitalisation of the agricultural and maricultural enterprises, and such other purposes, to the advantage of the Richtersveld community, as the investment holding company may deem fit.

Fourthly, funds for the Richtersveld community’s rehabilitation research project, in the amount of R1,331 million, have been paid in trust to the attorneys of the community. Payment of these funds was necessary to enable the project to be launched in order to gather seeds of indigenous plants during the present season.

Environmental specialist consultants have been appointed by Alexkor and on behalf of the Richtersveld mining company, to process the amendment of the environmental management programme – the EMP - as contemplated in the deed of settlement. It was necessary to start with the amendment of the EMP in view of the fact that the conversion of the old-order mining right of Alexkor and the transfer of that right to the community are dependent upon such amendments.

In terms of the deed of settlement, the parties agreed to form a pooling and sharing joint venture, PSJV, between Alexkor and the Richtersveld mining company. The settlement provided for the appointment of an interim joint board to pass a unanimous resolution on the formation of the PSJV on the basis agreed. The interim joint board passed a unanimous resolution on 31 August 2007 and this was confirmed by the principals on the same date. The preliminary establishment phase of the PSJV will commence shortly.

With regard to the second part of the question, the hearing of the application to make the deed of settlement an order of court in terms of section 38(B)(5) of the Restitution of Land Rights Act of 1994, was set down for 25 September, 26 September and 27 September 2007 in the Land Claims Court. However, during the period leading up to these hearings, nine individuals within the Richtersveld community gave notice that they would intervene and oppose any proceedings to have the settlement made an order of court.

As a result of this application, the court ruled that the proceedings of 25 September to 27 September would be used to argue the acceptability of the deed of settlement, whilst the issue of whether the settlement was duly approved by the community was reserved for 8 October to 10 October 2007. After hearing counsel for the parties and by consent between all of these parties, all proposals by this group of individuals were addressed and the deed of settlement was confirmed by the Land Claims Court on 9 October 2007.

In making the deed of settlement an order of court, the court was satisfied that the deed of settlement was clear and enforceable, that it was properly executed, that it was not against public policy and that the prescripts of the Restitution of Land Rights Acts of 1994 were met by the settlement agreement. Thank you, Chair.

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I have no follow-up questions, but would just like to make a plea to the Minister to make the written response available to us.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Yes, Chair, I will make it available with immediate effect.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It is also available in Hansard.

Steps taken to attain employment equity in decision-making positions in Denel

1. Ms M P Themba (ANC) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   In view of the employment equity statistics in Denel’s 2006-07 annual report (details furnished), what has his department done to ensure that affirmative action is utilised effectively to attain employment equity in decision-making positions in Denel?

           CO2464E
   

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Chairperson, if this is not redeployment … [Laughter.]

The response to the question is that steady progress has been made to effect employment equity in key management decision-making positions within Denel. On technical management positions, this has been and remains a challenge due to the general shortage of skilled persons in this category. Denel has a strategy in place to source, develop and retain its staff, and employment equity ratios are beginning to indicate a marginal improvement.

There is, certainly, a lot of room for improvement. There is still more that needs to be done. In addition, Denel has implemented a performance management system where employment equity, as part of Denel’s overall transformation efforts, is managed in line with business objectives. All entities have been contracted to achieve entity-specific transformation objectives.

The executive management team of Denel, consisting of nine members, is providing direction to the rest of the group with a profile in which 45% are women and 55% are black. I will read the composition and will also give the hon member the written response to the question. The table that I have here indicates 55% are male and 45% are female. I don’t understand the rest of the coding here. Please appreciate the fact that I am just trying to help the Minister. Thank you very much.

     Progress made in implementing Integrated Business Strategy

1. Mrs E S Mabe (ANC) asked the Minister of Labour:

   What progress has his department made in implementing its Integrated Business Strategy? CO2466E

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, the process of reorganising, integration, alignment and co-ordination is a continuing one.

Position regarding alleged shortage of qualified accountants in South
                               Africa

1. Mr D A Worth (DA) asked the Minister of Finance: 127. Whether there is a shortage of qualified accountants in South Africa, as alleged in a recent media report (details furnished); if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? CO2472E

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, the question relates to whether we have a shortage of accountants in South Africa or not. The answer is, obviously, yes. There are 26 905 members of the SA Institute of Chartered Accountants, of whom about 6 080 are nonresident. So we have 20 000 registered chartered accountants in this country.

It is interesting also to look at the breakdown of that number: 6 477 are accountants in what is considered to be public practice. These are people who do audits for other people. Those who may be deployed by the Auditor- General to do the books of the office of the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal would be included in the 6 477. It is a rather small number. If we look at the total number of chartered accountants in South Africa, the race and gender composition, I think, reflects some of the difficulties encountered.

Of the total of roughly 20 300 who are resident in South Africa, 311 are black women and 545 are black men, 199 are coloured women and 252 are coloured men, compared to 625 Indian women and 1 221 Indian men, and 4 061 white women and 13 585 white men. The battles for transformation which are being led by Saica, the SA Institute of Chartered Accountants, led by President Ignatius Sehoole, are admirable but it will take a long time to reach anywhere close to a satisfactory level.

The institute has a programme running, primarily in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces, focusing on schools, called Thuthuka, which tries to encourage the learning of maths and science in schools, so that a love for figures can be generated and inculcated at school level, and then the streaming of young people into the profession. But we have too few accountants and I think the race and gender composition leaves much to be desired. Thank you very much, Chair.

Mr J W LE ROUX: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Mr Minister, thank you very much for your answer. Seeing that you have all the money in the world, don’t you think we should have very special bursaries for these professions where there is such a shortage of skills, not only as far as chartered accountants are concerned, but also as far as engineers and other professions are concerned in which we don’t have enough people?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chair, the first point to make is that there are global shortages of some skills, in fact of many skills. I was looking at some numbers, because we all fly around quite a bit. India, for instance, has fewer than 3 000 pilots, but by 2025 will need 12 000. China needs to find an average of 2 200 new pilots every year. The large international airlines do not train more than 400 between them.

You can see that there is a huge shortage building up there. You can look at doctors, lawyers, accountants and engineers – country by country. In fact, in the United States 80% of people who qualified in engineering in the US more than five years ago have left the profession.

There is an enormous difficulty, and what these wealthy countries are doing is that they merely come to developing countries like ours and offer horrendously high salaries, and so we continue to lose people. It is a huge difficulty even when you look at the situation inside the country.

I was in discussion with people in the civil engineering industry just recently, and they said that they offer bursaries to young people who are leaving school, both for universities and technikons. In order to get some returns, they then bond people for something like three to four years after graduating, to remain in the firm so that they make a contribution. Larger firms come from elsewhere and buy these young people out of bond. If you say that the bond is worth R500 000, they offer them that amount and another R500 000 to join the big firm.

I think that the Minister of Labour, not exclusively, must lead this process. I addressed a conference on this matter in Washington this past Sunday. It is a very big issue, and South Africa is not alone. In some respects, we do better than other countries.

If you look around this country and at the number of non-South African Africans who are now in professional categories in this country, you will then begin to understand how we have actually just taken people from elsewhere on the continent. It doesn’t matter whether we are talking about engineers, actuaries, accountants, doctors and teachers. We have taken people from elsewhere. So all the investments these countries, poor as they are, have made in their people have actually not realised a significant change.

It is an enormously difficult issue. Part of the call that we are making is that there needs to be an international conscience about this. Perhaps the Minister of Education, who is in Paris at Unesco at the moment, could take this matter up, because it is a very big issue for us.

Clearly, a number of government departments are offering bursaries. One of the key areas in which we are offering bursaries now is in respect of health workers, especially nurses. The other key area in which we are offering bursaries is in respect of teachers. We will come to the point where the Philippines is now. In respect of nurses, the Philippines trains 40% over their planned requirements, because they know that their nurses are going to be recruited elsewhere in the world.

For poor countries, such training is enormously expensive. I wish I had the number at hand to tell you what it costs to train a doctor. People train and do their year of community service, and they are gone. It is a difficult challenge that confronts us. Thank you.

Progress made in resolving challenges faced by Mothlothlo community in Limpopo

1. Kgoshi M L Mokoena (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

   (1) What progress has been made to resolve the challenges faced by the Mothlothlo community in Limpopo caused by the Anglo Platinum Mines;

   (2) whether eviction is still continuing against the will of the community; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether the needs or demands of the community will finally be met before they are relocated; if not, why not? CO2467E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, the process of relocation was an agreement between the community and the mine. This process started some time ago, and there is evidence of that in terms of information that is available.

After a dispute arose between two main faction groups within the community, Premier Moloto established a task team that consisted of five members from each group and various government departments that would include the Department of Minerals and Energy. It was agreed upon that the relocation would continue - starting with the people closer to the mine - whilst the task team would be discussing the short-term and long-term concerns.

The department was not part of the initial relocation negotiation which started, apparently, in 1993 during the former Lebowa government. Surely we were not yet born as this democratic government. But this is an indication that this process is a very, very old one.

Where evictions continue the people are leaving willingly, and none of those already relocated were reported to have been forcefully removed. The needs of the people, as indicated in writing and captured in the relocation agreement, are an obligation which the company has committed to and therefore must adhere to, unless there are new demands which are not in the relocation agreement.

I do just want to pick up a few points on meetings that were held, especially the recent ones, so that we can begin to appreciate the dynamics of this particular matter. A meeting held and chaired by the premier on 21 June noted that there were two groups which also had similar problems around tribal and relocation issues - what these two groups were fighting about. But within the same meeting, the people who were against relocation did not even live in the area and they had their own agendas. That is what came through in the meeting that the premier chaired, and I hope that he will testify to this. He is here.

The second thing that was said was that the lawyers should not form part of this relocation process and could only be used for court representation – because it appeared as if the lawyers were very much involved in these matters. It was decided in the meeting that short-term and long-term issues should be identified. The short-term issues related to relocation, and the decision was taken that people who were closer to the danger zone should be relocated first. The long-term issues related to royalties and post-mine operations. At the meeting it was also agreed that the current task team would exist until the completion of the relocation process.

The response from the mine was that all issues raised by the task team would be dealt with. Compensation to the task team will continue. The mine also agreed that the process needed to be fast-tracked. Sustainability will be considered with regard to community projects. So, there is also a commitment that the company has made to respond positively to all the issues that I have raised.

The premier, in his wisdom, realised that there needed to be a structure that would oversee this process. This structure included the Office of the Premier, the SA Council of Churches, the Department of Land Affairs, the Department of Minerals and Energy and the Mogalakwena Municipality.

They were to address the following, that is the brief of the task team was: the payment for graves to go up from R1 500 to R3 000; the relocation amount to be increased from R20 000 to R35 000; the kraals to form part of the new relocation area - ungabushiyi ngemva ubuhlanti bethu [so don’t leave out the kraals]; legal agreements to be discussed; and in terms of labour issues 30% of the labour force should come from the community. That was the mandate given to the task team.

At another meeting at which the task team came back to report, the following items were discussed: the relocation plan; the relocation budget; the labour desk; the phase 1 relocation plan; terms of reference of the task team; stipends – all of those matters were discussed in that meeting.

In discussion with the representative from the Office of the Premier, it was clear that the situation had improved markedly. Where once hate speech and tension existed, there is now relative calm. I will end my response with that point.

I think there was a letter from a Mr Richard Spoor who was accusing the Office of the Premier of favouritism and he was threatening legal action against relocation. I take it that I have to end my response. Thank you.

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thanks, Chairperson. Let me thank the Minister for the response to my question. Let me also agree with the Minister that the matter is so complex that trying to address some of the issues here might take much of our time. Maybe what I can say – I have consulted with my opponent delegates here - is that there are recent developments that are not talking exactly to what the Minister is saying. But we have agreed as a delegation that we will talk to the Minister in her office. Thanks, Chair.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Do you want to comment on that, hon Minister?

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: No. I have just noted that. Hopefully, the premier has also noted that because we are involved in this matter as a collective in trying to resolve it. I don’t think we should leave the premier out of this process. He has been very directly involved in it. As somebody who is in the province, he is even closer than the Minister to the whole process and the situation. So, while I appreciate and invite them to come and meet me, we will inform the premier so that in the process of trying to solve the problem, he is well appraised of any information that is new.

Measures to address allegations of mismanagement and nepotism at SA Airways

1. Kgoshi M L Mokoena (ANC) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   (1) Whether any measures will be put in place to address the challenges at the SA Airways (SAA) in order to deal with the allegations of mismanagement and nepotism; if not, why not; if so, (a) what measures and (b) what will happen to those who are responsible for mismanagement;

   (2) whether the leadership of SAA are able to deal with those challenges; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (3) whether he will make a statement on the matter? CO2468E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Thank you very much, Chair. The response to the question is: SA Airways is not aware of mismanagement and nepotism as alleged. The Minister has full confidence in the board and the management of SA Airways. At present a complex restructuring process is progressing in the right direction, but it is expected that full restructuring will take more time, especially when it comes to profitability. On the third part of the question: no statement will be made. Thank you, Chair.

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thanks, Chairperson. While we appreciate the response from the Minister and while we are trying to ensure that we do not incur unnecessary losses at SAA, could the Minister address this House and assure us that steps will be taken against those very senior officials who, on the one hand, are saying that they are trying to save money for the government, but on the other hand are using helicopters to go to meetings, from Sandton to Pretoria and from Sandton to the airport? When they were questioned they said it was because of heavy traffic in the morning. Thank you, Chair.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Chairperson, it is a bit difficult, as I said earlier on. I have taken note of the question. I suppose that there should be something in the turnaround strategy, some mechanisms to look into the matter that the hon member has raised.

I will forward the question to the relevant Minister. I would suggest that the member concerned bring back the question so that when the Minister is here, he will be able to engage. He seems to have details which I cannot immediately respond to. Even the Minister might not have that information. I think bringing back the question, if it includes some other information that you want to solicit from the Minister, would go a long way in helping in this situation. Thanks.

Results of final settlement agreement reached with Richtersveld community

1. Ms J F Terblanche (DA) asked the Minister for Public Enterprises:

   Whether the final settlement agreement with the Richtersveld community (a) addressed the concerns of sections within the community with regard to the manner in which the settlement agreement was negotiated, (b) provides for the rehabilitation of the land granted to them and (c) lends itself to returning Alexkor to profitability; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO2471E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Terblanche, in answer to your question - thank God this is the last one – yes, the concerns raised by the nine individuals who joined the court proceedings related to consultative procedures regarding the Richtersveld community, not the manner in which the settlement was negotiated. All proposals by this group of individuals were addressed. On 9 October 2007, the state, the Richtersveld Community Property Association and the nine individuals jointly approached the court to confirm the settlement as an order of the court.

The answer to part (b) of the question is: The settlement provides for the revision of the existing environmental management programme, both in respect of the rehabilitation of the existing historic environmental disturbance and in respect of future prospecting and mining. Alexkor is financially responsible for all rehabilitation of historic environmental disturbance and the community’s mining company is responsible for rehabilitation of future prospecting and mining disturbances, including mine closure. Outstanding responsibilities of Alexkor still existing at the date of eventual mine closure remain the financial responsibility of Alexkor.

The answer to the third part of the question is: The settlement brings an end to the uncertainties thus far faced by Alexkor and presents the opportunity to exit noncore activities and restructure and focus the business. The settlement provides for land mining rights to be transferred to the Richtersveld community while Alexkor will continue to own the sea mining rights. I think this is a great achievement for South Africa and the black people of this country.

Alexkor will terminate noncore activities when it transfers its agricultural and maricultural assets to the community. In the medium term, Alexkor will pool its sea mining resources with the land mining resources of the community in the form of a pooling and sharing joint venture with the Richtersveld community. The operations of the pooling and sharing joint venture will be based on a mining plan to be developed by experts in this field. Thank you.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon Minister. The hon Terblanche is not in the House. Is there any follow-up question?

Mr J W LE ROUX: Thank you, Chairperson, and thank you very much, Minister, for a very comprehensive reply. There is a problem, I imagine, with the skills base of Alexkor. Is it possible, in your opinion, that they will have to get a partner from outside to be able to become profitable again? I thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY (on behalf of the Minister for Public Enterprises): Again, Chairperson, it is a bit difficult, but I think it is an option that they will always look at. When we do not have capacity, we outsource the function. I think it would be prudent for Alexkor also to look at that option, given that you cannot keep this entity for a long time without it delivering. It has to deliver to the people concerned. So surely they will look at the option of outsourcing the functions if their own capacity is limited. I would think so.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon Minister. Is there any further follow-up question? Hon members, we will proceed to Question 127 to the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. Oh, I’m informed that the question will stand over since the Minister and the Deputy Minister are not available. Therefore we will proceed to Question 128.

         Assistance to people regaining land in mining areas

1. Nkskz N D Ntwanambi (ANC) ubuza uMphathiswa weZimbiwa naMandla:

   (a) Ingaba isebe lakhe libanceda njani abantu ekubuyekezweni kwemihlaba kwiindawo ezinezimbiwa kunye (b) bangaphi abantu (i) abasele bencediwe kule mihlaba kunye (ii) abasalindele ukuncedwa ngale mihlaba? CO2480X (Translation of isiXhosa question follows.)

[128. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

    (a) How does her department assist people in regaining their land
    in mining areas and (b) how many people (i) have regained their
    land in those areas and (ii) are still awaiting settlement?
                                   CO2480E]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: I thought the Minister of Land Affairs would help me with this one, but it’s okay. The commissioner for the restitution of land claims of the Department of Land Affairs is the one mandated with the responsibility of processing applications for land claims. In terms of the current Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, the mineral and petroleum resources are the common heritage of all the people of South Africa, and the state is the custodian thereof for the benefit of all South Africans. Thank you.

      Number of women involved in mining industry in provinces

1. Nkskz N D Ntwanambi (ANC) ubuza uMphathiswa weZimbiwa naMandla: Mangaphi amakhosikazi akwishshini lezimbiwa kwiphondo ngalinye? CO2481X (Translation of isiXhosa question follows)

[129. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

    How many women in each province are involved in the mining industry?
                                                                CO2481E]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Hon Chair, the response to the question is that in Limpopo we have not given it in terms of the number of physical bodies that are participating in the mining industry in terms of women, but we have presented it in terms of companies. These are the statistics as requested by the hon member. In Limpopo we have more than 10 women-led companies; in Mpumalanga we have five; in the North West we have four; and in the Western Cape we have two.

However, I think that I need to add that we have the SA Women in Mining Association. One of the pioneers in establishing that association is the Minister. She was very involved when she was still Deputy Minister of Minerals and Energy. It is a very strong movement of women. They have organised themselves, as an association, so that they can access opportunities that accrue from the transformation that is happening in the mining industry.

They are coming up very well. The numbers are increasing in terms of membership, and they do have some investments, which I can’t disclose, which look very good. Indeed, there is still a lot of room for improvement. For instance, here in the Western Cape there are still very few women participating in mining.

I’m sure people are wondering what I am talking about when I talk about mining in the Western Cape. Indeed there is mining of sand, which is a mineral, according to our law, and anybody mining sand must have a licence. It is a business that people can venture into, and, if anything, we would have wanted to see more women in it. So there is a lot that we still need to do.

In the Eastern Cape there is lime, for example. We need to create opportunities, especially within the programme of small-scale mining. We need to concentrate more on that programme, so that we have more women benefiting from the transformation of the mining industry. Thank you, Chair.

Nkszn N D NTWANAMBI: Sihlalo, njengoko uMphathiswa esitsho ukuba zimbini kuphela ezi nkampani, ngaba ikhona na into eseza kwenzeka? Ngaba zise khona na ezinye iindawo apho abantu banokuphinda benze izicelo ukuze bafumane iziza ukwenzela ukuba babe ngoosomashishinana njengokuba usitsho, bokuqalisa lo msebenzi wokomba isanti? Kaloku sithetha apha ngolwakhiwo lwebala lezemidlalo lase-Green Point kunye nezindlu kweli phondo lethu. Enkosi.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMBIWA NAMANDLA: Eneneni, lungu elibekekileyo, amathuba akhona wona, kodwa ingxaki nje esinayo ngokwangoku yeyokuba la mathuba asekwizandla zegcuntswana, ngakumbi elabantu abangootata abamhlophe. Loo nto ke ithetha ukuba amathuba asavalelekile kumakhosikazi, ngakumbi amnyama. Ngoko ke kusafuneka size nesitshixo esikhulu, sivulele amakhosikazi. Ndinedinga ke nalo mbutho bendithetha ngawo, ukuze sigwadle ukuba siza kwenza njani na ukubheka phambili.

Omnye umkhuba ekufuneka siwulwile, kwalapha kwakwezi ofisi zethu, ngowokuba kuthi ukuba kukho inkampanana yomntu omnyama eqalisayo ukusebenza, ichukelwe ngezinto ezininzi, kuthiwe hayi ayiphathi kakuhle okusingqongileyo, kodwa eyommelwane ephethwe ngumntu omhlophe kungathethwa nto ngayo namgona isenza ezingentla izinto ezingalunganga. Andiyithethi le nto kuba ndisandisa ucalucalulo, ndizama nje ukuzoba umfanekiso wento eyenzekayo apha kweli leNtshona Koloni.

Loo ngxelo izile ke kum, kwaye siyawuphanda lo mba kuba omnye wabantu abanalo mkhuba ulapha e-ofisini yam, apha kweli phondo. Ukubangaba ke simfumene enetyala, iinyawo zakhe ziza kujonga ngaphambili izithende zifulathele umnyango, kuba kaloku asina kuyithwala into yokuba sithi ngexesha lolawulo lwentando yesininzi kube kusekho abantu abasenocalulo.

Ndithi ke, lungu elibekekileyo, amathuba akhona, nto nje kusekukhulu ekusafuneka sikwenzile ukuvula lo mnyango ukwenzela ukuba abantu bakwazi ukuthatha inxaxheba, ngakumbi amakhosikazi, kuba ngawo achaphazelekayo xa kuthethwa ngendlala. Enkosi.

Nkszn N D NTWANAMBI: Mphathiswa, into endifuna ukuyiqonda, njengoko usithi niceba ukuba nentlanganiso, kukuba ngoobani abamenyiweyo kulo ndibano? Ingaba abanye abantu abanomdla nabanqwenela ukushishina bangavumeleka na ukuba beze kuloo ntlanganiso?

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMBIWA NAMADLA: Ngokuqinisekileyo asingekhe sikhethe abantu abambalwa. Kaloku ulawulo ngokwentando yesininzi yinkonzo ekhulula wonke umntu ukuba athathe inxaxheba. Siza kuwenza umpoposho oza kwenza into yokuba wonke umntu azi ukuba le ntlanganiso iya kuba nini, siza kuyibambela phi kwaye siza kuxoxa ngantoni na, ukwenzela ukuba wonke umntu abe nokwazi ukuba senzani, siyenza njani na.

Kaloku abantu abangathathi ntweni asingabo bakulo mbutho ndiwukhankanyileyo kuphela, kodwa ngabantu bonke belo Mzantsi Afrika. Noxa ke siza kube sidibene nabantu bombutho, kodwa iza kube iyinto evuleleke kumntu wonke. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, as the Minister has indicated that there are only two such companies in this province, then what is next? Are there any places where people can go to reapply for sites, so that they can set up their small enterprises, as you say, and start mining? Indeed, we are talking here about the construction of the Green Point stadium and houses around this province of ours. Thanks.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: In fact, hon member, the opportunities are there, but the problem is just that at the moment these opportunities are in the hands of a minority, specifically white males. That means these opportunities are still inaccessible, particularly for black women. Therefore, we have to unlock these opportunities for women. I have an appointment with the organisation in question, so that we can chart the way forward. We also have to deal with the bad habit, which has been identified as emanating from someone in one of our offices, of the harassment of small, black-owned companies, on the basis that their activities are not environmentally friendly whereas a white-owned, neighbouring company that is guilty of worse offences is let off the hook. I’m not saying this because I’m motivated by racism; I’m just trying to draw a picture of what is happening in the Western Cape.

This complaint came to my attention, and we are investigating it because one of the people accused of this kind of conduct is in my office, in this province. If we find the person guilty of this kind of conduct, we will show the person the door, because we cannot tolerate racist behaviour 13 years into our democracy.

So, I’m saying, hon member, that the opportunities are there, but that we still have a lot to do to unlock them so that our people, particularly women, because they are the ones adversely affected by poverty, can benefit. Thanks.

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Minister, what I would like to find out – as you said that you are planning to hold a meeting – is, who is invited to the meeting? Are other people, who are interested in setting up their own businesses, invited to the meeting?

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Definitely, it cannot be a meeting for a chosen few. Indeed, democracy has opened up the space for everyone to participate.

We are going to publicise the details of the meeting regarding the the date, venue and topic to be discussed, so that everybody can know what we are doing, and how.

Indeed, poverty is not limited to the members of the organisation in question only, but affects all the people of South Africa. Although we will be meeting members of this organisation, the meeting will be open to the public. Thanks.]

Nksz A N T MCHUNU: Ngiyabonga mhlonishwa ngalokhu osusibekele khona. Ngicela ukubuza ukuthi abekho yini asebemba laphaya KwaZulu-Natali ngoba siyazi ukuthi sinawo umcako nehlabathi? Umhlonishwa akaze abale lutho laphaya kwelakithi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Ms A N T MCHUNU: Thank you, hon Minister, for your report. I want to ask whether there are people who are already digging in KwaZulu-Natal, because we know that we have white ochreous stone and sand there. The Minister has not mentioned anything in my area.]

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMBIWA NAMANDLA: Mhlalingaphambili, bekufuneka ndazile ukuba ndiza kubantu abamele amaphondo. Into endiyivuyelayo nje, yoyokuba lo mbuzo sele ndiwuphendule phaya kanye kwiphondo, kwaZulu-Natala. INkulumbuso yephondo yandibizela phaya, yandiqokobhisa. Ewe, asikenzi nto ingako, yiloo nto besithi ihamba phaya kude le nto yemigodi kwezinye iindawo. Ndiyambona noTata uSikhakhane undimamele ukuba ndiza kuthini na, ngoba bathi ihambela ngaphaya, ayizi KwaZulu-Natala.

Siwuphethe ke lo mba, kanti naphaya KwaZulu-Natala sijonge izinto ezininzi, ezinjengamalahle phaya e-Richards Bay, nalapho sifumanise ukuba ambalwa kakhulu amakhosikazi nabantu abamnyama abathatha inxaxheba kolu shishino.

Ndikhe ndazama ukudibana nabachaphazelekayo ukuze ndithethe nabo ngalo mba, bandithembisa ukuyilungisa le meko. Ndinethemba ke lokuba ndiza kuthi xa ndiphinda ndibuyela phaya, kube sele kungcono. Kodwa akukabikho nto icacileyo yenzekayo phaya, ngoko kusafuneka silungisile. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, I should have known that I was coming to visit people who represent provinces. However, I’m just happy that I have had the opportunity to answer the question at provincial level, in KwaZulu-Natal. Yes, not much has happened in this regard, and that is the reason they are saying that this seems to be happening only in other areas, far away from them. I see that Mr Sikhakhane is listening attentively, because he is one of the people who feel this way. We are dealing with the matter. Regarding KwaZulu-Natal, we are considering a number of options, such as coal in Richard’s Bay, where we also found very few women and black participants in the industry.

I tried to meet the relevant stakeholders so that we could talk about this matter, and they promised to look into it. I just hope that when I go back there, things will have improved. But nothing concrete is happening there, so we still have a lot to do.]

   Progress made in the installation of electricity in rural areas

1. Nkskz N D Ntwanambi (ANC) ubuza uMphathiswa weZimbiwa naMandla:

   Ingaba isebe lakhe lisazibophelele na ekuphuculeni ubomi babantu abahlala ezilalini ngokuzisa iinkonzo zombane emaphandleni; ukuba akunjalo, (a) kutheni kunye (b) ziyakuziswa nini ezinkonzo; ukuba kunjalo, (i) maxa lindawoni ngoku isebe nezinkonzo kunye (ii) zithini iinkcukacha ezithe vetshe? CO2482X (Translation of isiXhosa question follows.)

[130. Ms N D Ntwanambi (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

    Whether her department is still committed to improving the lives of
    the people living in the rural areas by bringing electricity to
    those areas; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it going to install
    electricity in the rural areas; if so, (i) what progress has been
    made in this regard and (ii) what are the further relevant details?
                         CO2482E]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, since the inception of the electrification programme in South Africa, approximately 4 500 000 households have been connected to the national grid. Access to electricity has increased from approximately 30% in 1990 to 73% in 2006.

It is also fair to mention that electrification has contributed significantly to socioeconomic status, local economic development, job creation and poverty alleviation of the majority of historically disadvantaged communities in South Africa. The success of the electrification programme in South Africa is premised on several factors relating to the existing electricity infrastructure and human settlements.

During the 1990s the electricity network capacity was such that more households could be connected without building large bulk infrastructure systems to open areas for electrification, as the majority of the areas were closer to networks and human settlements were such that more connections could be achieved. I think that’s where I will end. Thank you very much.

Nksz N D NTWANAMBI: Mphathiswa, ndiyabulela ngale mpendulo, kwaye ndiyakuva ukuba uthini na. Kodwa ke, lo mbuzo wam ugxile kakhulu phaya ezilalini zokwenyani, kude needolophu, apho uthi nokuba ufuna ukuya kuzinceda phaya phandle, woyike kuba awuboni nomnwe lo wakho.

Mhlawumbi kungcono kwiindawo ezikufutshane neendlela ezinkulu kwaneedolophu, kodwa kukho abantu abangaboni noomabonakude aba, abayiva ngembali le nto kuthiwa ngumabonakude. Mhlawumbi endlwini uba nalo mabonakude kuthiwa “ngumkhwetha”, kuba uza kusebenzisa ilahle likamabonakude ongasebenzisi mbane, ubone imifanekiso emnyama namhlophe. Enkosi.

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMBIWA NAMANDLA: Eneneni, lungu elibekekileyo, ngumba obalulekileyo lo uza nawo. Kaloku apha sisasebenza ngeengxaki esazishiyelwa ngurhulumente wocalucalulo, apho ke iindawo zasemaphandleni yayiziindawo ezingakhathalelekanga. Ngoku ke sizama ukutshintsha loo nto. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Minister, thank you for your reply, and I get your point. However, my question relates specifically to the real bundus, far away from the urban areas, where, even if you want to go outside to relieve yourself at night, you get scared because it is so dark that you can’t even see your finger in front of you. Maybe things are better in areas alongside national roads and close to urban areas, but there are people who can’t even watch television, to whom watching TV is just a dream. In some cases one just has a “black-and-white” TV, which is battery-operated. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Truly, hon member, this is a very important issue that you are raising. Remember, here we are dealing with the problems which were left for us by the apartheid government, whereby rural areas were just neglected. Now, we are trying to change that.]

The neglect of the rural areas meant that there was no infrastructure developed for electrification. So, the problem is even bigger in the rural areas, because you can’t connect without the necessary infrastructure.

As a result, as the Department of Minerals and Energy, we have had to make sure that, because we need to continue with electrification …

… kuza kufuneka ukuba sithathe enye imali yethu siyise kuphuhliso lweziseko zophuhliso. Njengokuba ndithetha nje, siphawule iindawo ezithile esiza kuzakhela ezi zinto kuthiwa zizikhululwana zombane ezilishumi kulo nyaka ukuze size kukwazi ukufakela umbane.

Kodwa ke loo nto inciphise imali yethu yokufakela umbane, kuba kaloku asikwazi ukufakela umbane kungekho ziseko zophuhliso; kuyanyanzeleka ukuba sakhe iziseko zophuhliso kuqala. Ukuba asizakhi ezi ziseko zophuhliso, abantu bathi sibanika umbane ongufinya-futhi, othi xa kukho umoya uvele ucime nje, pam, kuba kaloku awuxhaswanga ziziseko zophuhliso. Ngoko ke kuyanyanzeleka ukuba siqale kule ndawo kufuneka siqale kuyo.

Eneneni ke, lungu elibekekileyo, andifuni kungena kwiphulo lokufuna imali, kodwa umcimbi wemali kuya funeka siwulungise ukuze sikwazi ukuba nemali eza kujongana nolwakhiwo lweziseko zophuhliso. Le mali ili-150 leebhiliyoni zeerandi ejongene nolwakhiwo lweziseko zophuhliso igxininise ekwakheni izikhululo zombane nezinye izinto ezifana namandla e-nuclear, njalo njalo, hayi ulwakhiwo lweziseko zophuhliso. Kuyafuneka siyilungisile ke loo nto.

Siyathetha neSebe lezeziMali ukuba malisibonelele ukwenzela ukuba singalinciphisi inani lethu lezindlu ekufanele sizifakele umbane. Xa imali ili-150 leebhiliyoni zeerandi, noko oko kwenza kube lula ukufezekisa injongo yethu yokuba kuthi xa kufika unyaka wama-2012 sibe sesilibonelele ngombane lonke inani labantu abangena mbane. Loo nto ke iyafuna ukulungiswa.

Kodwa ke, mandigqibele ngelithi singurhulumente, sizibophelele kwaye asijiki: Unyaka wama-2012 ngunyaka aya kuthi wonke umntu acofe eludongeni: qhakra, kube mhlophe endlwini, kusetyenziswa umbane osemgangathweni. Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… we will have to take some of our money and transfer it to the improvement of infrastructure development. As I speak, we have identified certain areas where we will build ten of what we call electric sub-stations this year, so that we should be able to install electricity.

But that has reduced our money for electricity installation. Because we cannot install electricity when there is no infrastructure development, we are forced to deal with infrastructure development first. If we do not deal with infrastructure development, people complain that we provide them with weak electricity, which just goes off when there is wind, because it is not supported by the infrastructure. Therefore, we have to start from where we are starting.

Truly, hon member, I do not want to get involved in a money-seeking endeavour, but we do need to correct the money issue so that we have money that will be for the building of infrastructure. This money, which is R150 billion which is used for the building of infrastructure, should be mostly used for the building of power stations and other things like nuclear power, etc not the building of infrastructure. We have to correct that.

We are communicating with the Department of Finance to assist us so that we do not reduce the number of houses in which we have to install electricity. When we have R150 billion, at least that makes it easier for us to fulfill our intention of providing everyone that has no electricity with electricity by 2012. That needs to be corrected.

But, let me conclude by saying that, as the government, we are committed and we are not going to change: 2012 is the year that everybody is going to just press against the wall: light! The house becomes bright, using electricity which is of good quality. Thank you.]

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Ke a leboga, Modulasetulo. [Thank you, Chairperson.]

My follow-up question will be in Sesotho sa Lebowa, so I will give the Minister an opportunity to prepare that interpreting gadget while I am busy with a commercial break. [Laughter.] I think she is ready now.

Modulasetulo, ke leboga karabo ya mohlomphegi Tona ya gore bjaloka kgoro ba ikemišeditše go thuša setšhaba sa gešo. Potšišo ke gore go na le nako moo batho ba botšwago gore gore ba hwetše mohlagase go nyakega gore ba koleke mašeleng a itšego, e be gona ba kago go o fiwa; mola ka go le lengwe go hwetšagala gore Morena Koekemoer yo a dulago a nnoši kua thabeng o kgona go latelelwa ke mohlagase gona kua a dulago gona, o feta ka godimo ga batho bao ba dulago kgauswi le yena, o latelela yena a nnoši gomme go thwe gore batho bao ba o hwetše ba swanetše go o kolekela pele. Na e ka ba mohlomphegi Tona a ka re hlakodiša? Mošate! (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, I thank the hon Minister for the response in terms of which as a department they are prepared to help our people. Sometimes people are told that in order for them to get electricity, there is an amount of money they have to pay, whereas it is evident that electricity is supplied to the dwelling of Mr Koekemoer who is living alone on a hillside. The electricity cables run over the dwellings of people living next to him, straight to his place but people are instructed to pay in order to get the same service. Would the hon Minister be of assistance in this regard? Thank you!]

UMPHATHISWA WEZEZIMBIWA NAMANDLA: Kuyinyaniso, lungu elibekekileyo, ukuba zikhona izinto ezinjalo. Yiyo loo nto kubalulekile ukuba sikhawulezise ulwakhiwo lwezinto ekuthiwa zii-RED, ii-Regional Electricity Distributor. Kaloku into yokukhupha imali ukuze kufakelwe umbane iyaqhubeka kweli jikelele; iyenziwa kwa-Eskom nakoomasipala. Abathethi nto enye ke: abanye bayahlawulisa, abanye bangahlawulisi.

Kakhulukazi oomasipala bazenzela imali ngokubonelela ngombane. Asizi kuthi mabayiyeke ke loo nto, kodwa masingathi xa sizisa iinkonzo ebantwini sibenze bahlwempuzeke nangakumbi. Kaloku, … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Hon member, it is true that there are issues like those, and that is why it is so important that we build regional electricity distributors or REDs as soon as possible. Budget allocation is currently being done for supplying electricity around the country by Eskom and the municipalities. They work differently though, because some expect payment whilst others do not.

This is because some municipalities raise funds by supplying electricity. We therefore cannot stop them from expecting payment, because they are rendering this service as that would leave them more bankrupt.]

… these are basic services which are meant to give a better life to our people. They are supposed to be a catalyst out of poverty, and if then in the process of delivering these services we are further impoverishing our people, it means that we have not achieved our main goal as government of giving this better life to our people.

Indeed, we have realised this. As we speak, we have 2 000 kinds of tariffs in the country. The people who are not serviced in the process are the poorest; they are actually subsidising you and me and the industries, and that situation needs to change, even with regard to the tariffs. That is a problem.

We are working on that problem. That’s why I am saying the restructuring that is happening needs to happen very, very fast. We will investigate that matter, and I would appreciate it if you could write me a letter and present that as a problem that we need to attend to.

Again, we are available on floor 7, 120 Plein Street, any time, but not after 12 o’clock midnight – any time during office hours. The last point that I should have raised is that we have committed ourselves to electrifying all the schools in South Africa during the three- year term - there are about 7 000 in South Africa in total. This is long- hanging fruit that we can be able to harvest.

As far as clinics are concerned, there are just 400 of them, which we are also prioritising. It looks as if by the end of the financial year we will have eradicated that backlog. It is not that bad and we are getting there.

The PREMIER OF THE NORTHERN CAPE (Ms D Peters): Chairperson, Madam Minister …

… ke lebogela tšhono ya go botsa potso ya tlaleletso mo ntlheng ya go fitlhisa motlakase kwa bathong ba rona ba kwa magaeng. Potso ya me ke gore a tirisanyo magareng ga Lefapha la Temothuo le Merero ya Mafatshe le Lefapha la Dimenerale le Maatla e tseneletse ka ntlha ya gore batho ba rona ba ba kwa magaeng ba ba ikaegileng thata ka “sustainable agricultural livelihoods” ba itumelela go nna le motlakase?

Batho ba ba re ba lemogile gore go tlisiwa ga motlakase go tlile le diphetogo di le dintsinyana. Ba lemogile gore ga go tlhola go na le mekoko e e lelang ka ura ya boraro gonne mekoko e tlhakane tlhogo, ga e sa tlhole e itse nako. Ga twe dikgomo le tsona ga di bone bosigo le motshegare.

Ba kopa gore lefapha le ba thuse gore fa motlakase o tla, o se tlhakatlhakanye diphologolo tsa bona, mme di tswelele go ata. Ga re batle go senya “sustainable livelihood” ya batho fa re ba tlisetsa botshelo jo bo botoka. Batho ba batla go iphidisa ka mokgwa o baneng ba ntse ba iphidisa ka ona. Le rona re batla gore ba tswelele go bona botshelo jo bo botoka.

Tona re ya go thusa jang nkoko kwa magaeng yo o itseng gore o tshwanetswe go tsoswa ke mokoko le kgomo ka ura ya boraro? Re ya go kgona jang go netefatsa gore motlakase ga o sitise diphologolo tsa kwa magaeng? Ke a leboga. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[… thank you for the opportunity to ask a supplementary question about access to electricity in rural areas. My question is as follows: Are there intensified co-ordination measures in place between the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Land Affairs and the Department of Minerals and Energy, because the rural community that depends heavily on a sustainable agricultural livelihood needs electricity?

The community has realised that electricity has resulted in several changes in the environment. They have further realised that hens no longer cackle at three o’clock because they are confused and no longer know what the time is. Even the cows no longer know the difference between day and night.

They urge the department to assist them, so that when the electricity is installed it must not confuse their livestock so that they continue to breed. We don’t want to spoil people’s sustainable livelihoods when we give them a better life. People want to continue to live in the same manner they were living before. We want them to continue to reap the fruits of a better life.

Minister, how will a grandmother who knows that she must be woken by a hen and a cow at three o’clock in rural areas be assisted? How are we going to ensure that electricity does not interfere with livestock in rural areas? Thank you.]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: You know, this needs the wisdom of a reverend, and there is only one reverend and one professor in the House. This reminds me of the time when we were campaigning, I think, in 1999 in Transkei. When I got to this village, I came across umama wethu wesiXhosa [a traditional Xhosa woman], and her house was the only one that had not been connected. I got so angry because the whole village had been connected, but not this woman.

Fortunately, I came across her and talked to her. Then I asked her: Mama, what happened? Why are you the only one whose house has not been connected? I mean, I was so passionate. She looked at me and said: “Mntan’ am, [My child,] how am I going to interact with my ancestors with these lights all over my house? I don’t want any electricity in my house.” So, it’s a big challenge, Premier, and I think it needs a lot of wisdom.

It probably needs an awareness campaign that you can switch off the light. Actually, switching off the lights in the evening will save you money, while it will also ensure that the crow of the cock will happen so that you will be able to wake up at three o’clock. I think it can be done.

However, in terms of the relationship with the Department of Agriculture, we have a relationship with all departments. As you would know, while we are organised as clusters, we are also a collective in Cabinet; we work together. Governance is dynamic, and there are new ideas every day. So, if there is anything that people want to propose, especially in the context of poverty alleviation, we could look at energy for poverty alleviation, working together with the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs.

We are joined at the hip; she can’t get rid of me, even if she wants to, and I can’t get rid of her. So, we are very close and we work very closely together. So, any time there is any proposal, we can look at it together. Thanks, Premier.

Mnu M A MZIZI: Sihlalo nawe Ngqongqoshe ngiyezwa kuyakhulunywa nje ngombani okufuneka uze ufike nasemakhaya. Ngqongqoshe, sengathi sibhekene nengwadla impela ngoba umbani esinawo kulaba basemadolobheni usunenkinga ngoba sesiye sitshelwe nokuthi asicime amagiza ngezikhathi ezithile nalokhu nalokhuya. Ngenxa yokuthi amandla awasakhoni ukuphehla umbani owenele ngisho namarobhothi nezibhedlela imbala kuyacisha. Ngakube uhulumeni uyakucabanga yini ukuthi kuyoze kudingeke ukuba sigudlukele emandleni aphehlwa yilanga, sithole amandla aphehlwa uNkulunkulu uqobo lwakhe ngoba asiyulokhu sithi “Cishani lokhu, cishani lokhu”. Nalaba basemakhaya sebeyowuthola nje umbani ngoba uyobe ubuya kuNkulunkulu. Ngakube umbani welanga siyawubheka okuyiwona ongase usitakule kulolu taku? Wena wakoMkhulu! (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson and Minister, I hear what is being said about electricity that should also reach rural areas. Minister, it looks like we are facing a problem because even electricity that we have in urban areas has a problem as well because we are told to switch the geysers off during peak hours. Because of the fact that there’s not capacity to generate enough electricity any more, even the traffic lights and hospitals run out of electricity. Is government considering the fact that we may need to use a solar system and get energy that is generated by God Himself because we are not always going to say, “Switch this, switch that”? Even people in the rural areas would be able to access electricity because it would be coming from God. Are we considering solar energy, which could save us from this problem?]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Mhlalingaphambili, mandiqale ngokutsho ukuba ingxaki esinayo yokuhamba kombane, le nto kuthiwa zii-power outages … [Chairperson, let me start off by stating that the problem of power outages …]

… is not about the source that we use for generating energy; it is about infrastructure and the lack thereof. But I think I need to go back and say that we have a positive problem. The economy has been growing consistently by around 5% or more, which is putting pressure on the supply of energy that we have in the country.

The supply that we have is on the margin with the demand that the economy needs as we speak, and that is because of the growth in the economy. I want to take this back, because there are some accusations that when we came in we mothballed, in other words, we closed some of the power stations. Yes, we did close some of the power stations because we had an excess supply of energy.

But now we have also gone back to reopen those power stations. I think we need to start there so that we combine the two. While we had closed the power stations, we are beginning to open them again because we need more energy. At the same time, the reason we have those power outages is that we don’t have enough supply of energy for the demand that exists …

… ngenxa yohlumo kuqoqosho lwethu. [… because of growth in our economy.]

That is the first thing. And what have we done as the government? We are building power stations.

Esinye besiye kusivula apha eAtlantis … [We opened one in Atlantis …]

… just very close here we opened a power station.

Kukho esinye esakhiwayo phantsi kwento ekuthiwa yiProject Majuba, eLimpopo. [There is one being built as part of Project Majuba, in Limpopo.]

All this is an effort by government to build the necessary infrastructure so that we have the necessary supply that you are talking about. Yes, the solar system is part of the source that we are going to use for energy generation, but there are three sources that we have identified. There is coal, which we are using now for the generation of energy; we can’t get rid of coal. But because coal is polluting the air, we are looking at clean coal technology.

Majuba in Limpopo is one such power station that is going to use that technology for the first time. I think part of Atlantis also has this technology. While we are using coal, we must not have too much emissions. We are also looking at nuclear energy, which is also going to give us around 20 000 megawatts by 2016.

The third source is solar energy. The problem with solar energy, which we are piloting at this stage is that …

… abantu bayakhala, Baw’ uMzizi, bathi ubuthathaka. [… people are unhappy about it, Mr Mzizi, saying that it is weak.]

So, we are looking for …

… amacebo okuba siyiqinise le solar ukuze isinike … [… mechanisms to help us strengthen solar energy so that it can provide us with …]

… the quality of electricity that we want in the country. The tendency for us is to take solar energy to the poorest people in the rural areas. And I don’t think that would be correct.

UMgaqo-siseko uya kusimangalela kwaye siya kugwetywa ukuba senza loo nto. [To do that would be tantamount to going against the spirit of the Constitution and the laws of this country.]

We need to give people equal quality of services. So, we are listening to what the people are saying, because …

… eNtabankulu siye saqalisa ukusebenzisa isolar phaya. Bayakhala bathi: Hayi, ibuthathaka le solar yenu! [… at Ntabankulu we started implementing the solar system. They have expressed dissatisfaction with it, saying: Your solar system is too weak!]

So while we have agreed that we are going to use it because it also gives us clean energy, at the same time it must be of good quality. That is what we are working on; we are working with a number of countries. Belarus is one country that we are learning from. I will be sending people for training in Belarus very soon. Even the wind farms we have not abandoned, but again … … nazo zinengxaki yomgangatho ophantsi wombane eziwuvelisayo. [.. they too are faced with the problem of producing poor quality electricity.]

Again, we are learning from other countries so that by the time we massify the programmes, at least they will give us the best. Thank you.

Measures to ensure that government buildings and other fixed assets use electricity sparingly

1. Ms A N T Mchunu (ANC) asked the Minister of Public Works: Whether, in light of Eskom urging consumers to use electricity sparingly so as to reduce the demand and assist in minimising load shedding, her department has measures in place to ensure that government buildings and other fixed assets managed by her department also use electricity sparingly; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO2485E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chair and hon members, electricity supply is very topical. We have spoken so much about it this afternoon.

My reply to the question is that a White Paper on Energy Policy was first published in 1988, focusing mainly on the central government. Since then the Department of Public Works has been actively involved in bringing about a reduction in energy consumption, as well as limiting maximum demand to the buildings and facilities in the National Property Portfolio. In recent years, this was assisted by the drive and involvement of the Department of Minerals and Energy – we have heard the Minister speaking about this a lot

• which includes all sectors of government and the private sector.

The Department of Public Works has taken a two-pronged approach to this problem. The first approach is addressing the problems that are found in new buildings. When we start building new buildings we normally take into account the issue of electricity supply so that we install measures that will assist in reducing the usage of electricity. We look at the possibility of reducing dependency on electrical energy to the minimum. The equipment that is fitted there should be equipment that will also assist in the reduction of the usage of electricity.

I just want to give some examples of problems that we have with regard to electricity supply. The Minister has indicated a lot about that. When you look at a building that has offices – or any other facility that has offices - that we use, it becomes very problematic if we enjoy only switching on whatever equipment we want to switch on, and it becomes unpleasant to switch it off. I think the Minister has touched on the issue of switching on. It is nice to switch on, but at the same time it must also be nice to switch off. I will come back to that later on. In respect of new buildings we take into account that what we put in there should be modern equipment so that we don’t have to have the problems of heavy usage, but with regard to the existing buildings that we have, we know there is a big problem there. We have a programme that is in place which has been running for about 10 years.

The emphasis is placed on the heavier consumers of electricity in the National Property Portfolio. Buildings are assessed to establish the potential for savings. Those with the best potential are prioritised. Through tender procedures, the contractors are appointed to optimise current electricity consumption as far as the building and infrastructure allow.

If this is possible, it is expanded and we hold the contractor responsible for keeping this idea in mind when they do the maintenance and other things. You will know that when we refurbish or renovate old houses we will always look at the electricity side of it so that we can fit in the modern equipment that will help us to reduce electricity. We have heard about the bulbs that we are using in our offices - the ones that save electricity. We encourage this so that all of us can benefit from the electricity.

I just want to say one thing about misuse. If you have an office that you don’t use every day, or a store room, where the curtains and the doors are closed, and you still leave the lights on, it doesn’t really make sense. Obviously, we use electricity for some purpose. If you use electricity in a store room when you are not there, it is a waste. We are trying to breach this so that all of us can assist in bringing down the usage of electricity, so that we don’t have these power outages, as far as possible. This is the answer I can give.

      Programmes to assist people illegally evicted from farms

1. Mr M A Mzizi (IFP) asked the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

   Whether, in light of illegal farm evictions, she will consider programmes to assist such evictees with immediate relief where they do not have immediate access to accommodation in order to prevent them from becoming illegal squatters; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO2491E

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, the answer to Question 132 is as follows: there should be no illegal evictions in the first instance, because these are criminal offences. However, in cases in which illegal evictions are reported to the Department of Land Affairs, the department submits an urgent application to court for an order to reinstate the rights of the evictees. The department also works with municipalities to secure temporary shelters where long-term solutions are sought. On Sunday, 21 October 2007, I launched the Land Rights Awareness Campaign as well as the Land and Agrarian Reform Project. These were launched in Rawsonville in the winelands district of the Western Cape. The main objective of the Land and Agrarian Reform Project is to improve access to land, to ensure security of tenure and agricultural production, and also to reaffirm, as government, that this is our top priority.

The second objective is to focus more sharply on increasing access to land, increasing the participation of historically disadvantaged persons in the formal agricultural sector, in food production and in generating rural employment, thereby contributing to more accessible food supplies.

The Land Rights Awareness Campaign aims, firstly, to create awareness in the public and specific target audiences about their land rights. Secondly, it aims to provide farm dwellers and farmworkers access to a network of services relating to tenure security.

Furthermore, the Department of Land Affairs is in the process of establishing a Land Rights Management Facility that will assist both farmers and farm dwellers to facilitate the resolution of any dispute, firstly, through mediation, and, secondly, through the courts, if need be. It will also assist those who have no means of paying for legal services in cases in which they have to go to court.

Lastly, the Land Rights Management Facility will operate a temporary call centre for free and easy access to the Department of Land Affairs. This service is for those who will need to report any cases of abuse and who need to know about the procedures to be followed in the case of an eviction situation. We are going to operate this toll-free centre and it will be initiated at the beginning of November this year. Thank you.

Mnu M A MZIZI: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo nakuNqgongqoshe ngempendulo eshaya emhloleni. Ngiyakuzwa Ngqongqoshe, empeleni kunjalo. Akuyona into enhle ukuthi abantu bakhishwe ezindaweni ngoba nakhu abanini bamapulazi kungabantu abanezimali abangakwazi ukuthola abammeli abanamandla. Thina asinabo labo bammeli abanamandla. Ngaleyo ndlela-ke bese sithola ukuchithwa- ke, njengoba sewushilo ukuthi kuzoba nalowo mnyango ozovuleka. Ukuxoshwa kwabantu emapulazini insakavukela umchilo wesidwaba. Lokhu ngikusho ngoba lapha eMpumalanga Koloni kukhona udaba olunjalo. Ngabe lokhu kusemthethweni noma cha? Laba bantu baba ngondingasithebeni.

Okwenzeka ukuthi umninipulazi akabiyile ngocingo ngakho izinkomo zomunye wondingasithebeni zazihamba kuyo yonke indawo ezelusile. Kwavele kwafika umninipulazi wakhomba enye yezinkomo ngezulu lezandla - induku yamagwala - kodwa wangayinemba ngamabomu. Wayesethi kuye ngokuzayo ngeke adubule inkomo kodwa uyodubula yena ukuze kuphele icala. Yikho lokhu okushoyo ukuthi ngabe ondingasithebeni abanjalo bayabonelelwa yini? Imininingwane eminingi nginayo kimi ngoba lo muntu ulaphaya eMpumalanga Koloni. Ake ngizwe uNgqongqoshe ukuthi ngabe uphendula uthini lapho. Ngiyabonga.

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOLIMO NEZOMHLABA: Ngiyabonga kumhlonishwa. Ngifuna ukuthi siyavumelana naye njengoba sengishilo empendulweni yami yokuqala ukuthi lenkinga yokukhishwa kwabantu emapulazini isikhathi esiningi ayihambi ngokomthetho. Sinomthetho lapha ekhaya. Yikho ngithi manje sizoqala lomshikashika wokwazisa ngamalungelo omhlaba ngoba sithola ukuthi isikhathi esiningi abantu le emakhaya abayazi le mithetho namalungelo abo. Yikho lokhu sithi-ke kulo mkhankaso sizosebenza nemiphakathi kanye namalungu ethu ePhalamende.

Sifuna futhi nokusebenza nezinhlangano kanye nezinyunyana zabasebenzi basemapulazini nabahlali basemapulazini, ukwenzela ukuthi sikwazi ukubathola futhi sifinyelele kubo bonke abantu abathintekayo kulolu daba. Ngifuna ukuthi sinamaphoyisa njengoba umhlonishwa azi ukuthi ukubulala inkomo kungeyona eyakho ukuphula umthetho lokho. Ukusabisa umuntu ngokuthi uzombulala nakho kuyicala.

Ngingajabula ukuthi umhlonishwa lezi zinto sizibike emaphoyiseni noma-ke anginike imininingwane anayo nami ukuze ngakolwami uhlangothi sikwazi ukuhlangabezana ukwenzela ukuthi lomnumzane ophule umthetho nalo mnumzane ohlukumeza abantu kabuhlungu kangaka akwazi ukuhlangana nabomthetho. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A M MZIZI: Thank you, Chairperson, for the straight answer. I hear you, Minister. In fact, it is exactly as you put it. Evicting people is not a good idea just because farmers have enough money to afford powerful lawyers. We do not have those kinds of lawyers. As a result, we get evicted from the farms. As you have already mentioned that door is opened and people get evicted because they cannot afford lawyers. The eviction of people from the farms is prevalent. I am saying this because in the Eastern Cape there is a similar situation. Is this legal? These people become destitute.

What happened is that the farm was not fenced and, as a result, the cattle belonging to one of the destitute people trespassed on the farm while he was looking after them. The farmer came and pointed a gun at one of the cattle – the coward’s weapon – but he intentionally shot away from the animal. He, however, warned the owner of the cattle that next time he wouldn’t shoot the animal but that he would shoot him once and for all. Is that what you are saying about the fact that these people should be assisted? I have details on this matter because the person I am talking about is in the Eastern Cape. Let me hear how the Minister responds. Thank you.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon member. I want to say that we agree with him, as I have said in my first response that this problem of evicting people from the farms, in most cases, is illegally conducted. We have laws in this country. That is why I am saying now that we are going to initiate the Land Rights Awareness Campaign, because we have discovered that, in most cases, people in the rural areas are not aware of these laws and their rights. We, therefore, will work with communities and our Members of Parliament.

We also want to work with organisations, farmworker unions and farm dwellers so that we are able to reach everyone concerned. I want to say to the hon member that we have the police. So, as he would know, killing a cow that does not belong to you is breaking the law. Threatening to kill somebody is a crime as well.

I would appreciate it if the hon member could report these incidents to the police or give me the details that he is in possession of so that we could work together, in order to deal with the man who is victimising people. Thank you.]

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Modulasetulolo, le nna ke tla ba le potšišo ya go latelela go mohlomphegi Tona. Ke a tshepa gore bahlatholli ba gona kua godimo gomme ba ntshwere ebile ba a hlatholla.

Mohlomphegi Tona, le šoma mošomo wo mobotse ebile re a leboga ka matsapa ao le a tšeago go thuša batho ba gaborena gore e tle e re ge ba ntšhiwa ka kgang mo dipolaseng, kgoro ya lena e kgone go ba sekegela tsebe gomme e ba phuthe ka nako yeo ba lego mathateng.

Potšišo ke gore naa bona boradipolase ba ba go hloka tsebe bao ba tshwenyago bana ba gaborena le ge ba ba šomela ka thata ka mokgwa wo, re ka dira eng gore le ge kgoro ya lena e ba thuša, le bona ba kwe bohloko? Re ka dira eng gore tše dingwe tša ditshenyagalelo tšeo di hlolegilego go kgoro le bona ba di kwe gomme ba di rwale? Le ka se rwale mošomo wo mokaaka ka lebaka la bona. Ba dira ka boomo ka go hloka tsebe ga bona. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I would also like to ask the hon Minister a follow-up question. I hope that the interpreters are interpreting what I am saying at the moment.

Hon Minister, you are doing a sterling job and we appreciate all the initiatives you are taking to help our people during the evictions from the farms. Your department may be able to help when problems arise.

The question is: What punitive measures are in place, which your department will be taking with regard to those farmers who ill treat our people even if our people try their best to do their work? What can we do to let those farmers share some of the department’s expenditure? You are not supposed to carry this burden which does not even belong to you. They did this purposefully because of their arrogance.]

LETONA LA TSA TEMO LE MOBU: Ke a leboha setho se hlomphehang. Jwalo ka ha ke ne ke boletse hore re tlo kopa di-stakeholder ka ofela hore di kene ho campaign e re qalang ka yona. Ho Land and Agrarian Reform Project re shebile hore rebe le di-private-public partnership. Hobane moo mmuso o shebileng teng re alocata budget e itseng e re tla mathang ka yona hore re reke naha kapa mapolase hore batho ba dutseng ha bohloko ba sena security of turner re ba relocate re ba ise mapolaseng tseo.

Re se re qadile maane Rawsonville Western Cape ka Sontaha re ne re le moo. Moqebelo ona o tla ka 27 October 2007, Tonakgolo ya kwaZulu-Natal oa tseba hore re tla be re le kwaZulu-Natal, Paulpietersburg maane pela Vryheid. Moo, re tla be re tsamaisa campaign, ebile re tla be re fa badudi ba mapolasing lefatshe kapa polase moo batla gonang ho sebetsa teng.

Seo re se buang ke hore, re batla dibanka, di-farmers’ co-operatives le di- agri companies le tsona di kenye letsoho mona. Hobane rona re le mmuso re tlile ka pele, mme rere seo re se etsang ke sena, mme re batla hore re rekele batho lefatshe, re ba hlomphe, re bafe seriti ba fumane lefatshe ba fumane thupello hotse Lefapheng le Temo, hore le bona ba ba kene, ebe balemi ba tiileng, ba hodileng batla tlohang ho bo maithutwane hoya ho ba dicommecial – bahwebi, ba ntano kena ho export market.

Hore re etse dintho tseo ka ofela re shebile hore, ba bang ba balemi ba rona banang le goodwill ba ikemiseditseng ho sebetsa le mmuso, bateng le bona, mme ba bangata hore ba re thuse … (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Thank hon, member. As I have mentioned, we are going to request all stakeholders to join the campaign that we have already started with. At the Land and Agrarian Reform Project we are looking at having private-public partnerships, because the government wants us to allocate a certain amount of money so that we can buy land or farms so that people who do not have security of tenure can go and live on those farms.

We have started at Rawsonville in the Western Cape. On Sunday we were there. This coming Saturday, 27 October 2007, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal knows that we will be in his province at Paulpietersburg near Vryheid. When we get there we will be running a campaign, and we will also be giving land to farm dwellers or farmers where they will be able to work.

What we are saying is that we want the banks, the farmers’ co-operatives, as well as agricultural companies to participate. As the government we were quick in approaching this and we want to buy land for the people, to give them respect and to restore their dignity. They must get the land as well as training about the Department of Agriculture, so that they can join in and become true agriculturists who will emerge from being amateurs into full-fledged commercial businesspeople and then from there they will be able to enter the export markets.

The reason that we are doing all this is because we are aware that some of our agriculturists have goodwill and they are prepared to work with the government …] … to transfer their skills and to form joint ventures with our people so that this programme can be a success for the good of all South Africans. But we are also saying, “Can we please stop the evictions?” Government has come forward …

Mmuso o butse tsela, mme e fanne ka an olive branch hore to say rona re le mmuso re nka boikarabelo ba hore re tla reka lefatshe, empa [The government has held out an olive branch to say “We are the government, we take the responsibility of buying land, but …]

… we are also saying to those farmers that want to evict our people …

… re feng nako re fihle moo re fihle re reke lefatshe. Re kwalle -friz di evicition tsena ho fihlela re emela mmuso hore o fihle dibakeng tseo. Re ka leka ho prioritise. Jwalo ka ha ke boletse hore ho tloha kwa-Zulu-Natal re tla ya Freistata, re tla ya Mpumalanga re tlaya ho diprovinsi kaofela re target di hot spots moo re nang le “most evictions and most cases of abuse in the country” mapolaseng a rona. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)

[… give us time to arrive there and buy land, so that we can prevent these evictions until the government reaches such areas. We can try to prioritize. As I have mentioned, from KwaZulu-Natal we will go to the Free State; we will also go to Mpumalanga and to all the other provinces. We will be targeting the hot spots or farmers where we have most evictions and most cases of abuse in the country.]

Thank you very much, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): We have come to the end of Question Time. I would like to thank the hon Ministers – the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs – and convey our sincere thanks to them for attending this session. I would also like to thank the special delegates, particularly the premiers. Our Rotating Deputy Chairperson will also convey the message that we thank them for participating in today’s session.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

                       CO-OPERATIVE BANKS BILL
            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Mr M O ROBERTSON: Chair, the Co-operative Banks Bill, 2007, seeks to create an appropriate regulatory framework for deposit-taking, member-based financial services co-operatives. The Bill promotes and advances the social and economic welfare of South Africans by, firstly, enhancing access to banking services under sound and sustainable co-operative banks; and, secondly, ensuring the right of access to appropriate and affordable basic banking services for all South Africans. The Bill achieves this by empowering communities to establish, own and manage their own co-operative banks under an appropriate regulatory and development framework.

The Bill represents sector-specific legislation that enhances public confidence in community-owned banking institutions, allowing these institutions to grow, flourish and be sustainable. The Bill provides protection to depositors of these institutions by extending the lender-of- last-resort facilities to such institutions, protections that in the past were only available to depositors of commercial banks.

The Co-operative Banks Bill provides for the formal regulation and supervision of co-operative banks. While also creating a development framework to promote and support co-operative banks, the Bill does not propose a new concept. Co-operative banks have been in existence and very successful in countries such as Germany, Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States, India, Brazil, Tanzania, Uganda and many others.

A significant number of adult South Africans still do not have access to financial services. This requires community participation and government intervention. The Bill achieves both. The Co-operative Banks Bill is recognised by all as a step in the right direction. This is borne out by the fact that the Bill was supported by all political parties during the Second Reading debate in the National Assembly.

Chair, I hereby request the House to pass the Co-operative Banks Bill,

1. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT - ACCESSION TO THE FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATION ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OF GENERATION IV NUCLEAR ENERGY SYSTEMS

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chair, hon members are intimidating me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Order, please! Hon Adams, you are out of order.

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Please protect me, Chair.

Chairperson, hon members of this House and officials from the department – I don’t see them - the South African government signed a loose agreement on collaboration on research and development of nuclear energy systems in

1. This is an international agreement that would be legally binding on us, South Africans, if this House agrees and accedes to it.

Big powers, or big brothers, have already done so: the USA, the UK, France, Canada and Japan. South Africa is not an active member. It has been clarified by both the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development that there is no conflict with international obligations and domestic laws, respectively. The approval by Cabinet is there and the Department of Minerals and Energy will be the implementing agent for South Africa.

We were briefed on the matter and made to understand that governments are working together. One of the aims of the agreement is to have nuclear energy systems available for international deployment by 2030 or even earlier, as the Minister said when she answered one of the questions. Failure to accede to the agreement will result in South Africa continuing to be a nonmember and not receiving the potential benefits.

We are also one of the founders of this GIF, or Generation IV International Forum, so it falls on us to be full members. Nationally, by being party to this, we will enhance the effectiveness of South Africa’s nuclear programme related to the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor project, as Minister Alec Erwin has said earlier this year in this House. This will build confidence in the PBMR-type technology as key elements of Generation IV nuclear technologies. It will also give our country early and exclusive access to research results arising from the specific research undertaken.

There will also be attendant benefits for the lead department and for the Department of Science and Technology, the SA Nuclear Energy Corporation, and other nuclear role-players as a result of acceding to this agreement. Our committee chair requests this House to vote in favour of this agreement. Thank you very much.

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Thank you, hon member. That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present?

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. There is none.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to this Chair whether they vote in favour of, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Mr M O ROBERTSON: Supports.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Gauteng?

Mr E M SOGONI: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: Elethu. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Limpopo? Microphone, please, for Limpopo.

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo seconds.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?

Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?

Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Supports.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke wa rona. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Die Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, I’ve been requested to announce that ANC members who belong to social services have an urgent meeting in S12A immediately after we adjourn.

The Council adjourned at 16:59. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                      FRIDAY, 21 SEPTEMBER 2007 TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Labour

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Economic Development and Labour Council (NEDLAC) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

2. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   (a) Report of the South African Law Reform Commission for 2006-2007 [RP 123-2007].

3. The Minister of Science and Technology

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 128-2007].

   (b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council for Natural Scientific Professions 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006- 2007.

National Council of Provinces

1. The Chairperson

a) The President of the Republic submitted the following letter dated  6
   September  2007  to  the  Chairperson  of  the  National  Council  of
   Provinces informing Members of the Council of the employment  of  the
   South African National Defence Force in the Central African Republic:


   EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE FOR A  SERVICE
   IN FULFILMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATIONS  OF  THE  REPUBLIC  OF
   SOUTH AFRICA TOWARDS THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC


   This serves to inform the National Council of Provinces that  I  have
   authorised the employment of the South African National Defence Force
   (SANDF)  personnel  to  the  Central  African  Republic   (CAR),   in
   fulfilment of the international obligations of the Republic of  South
   Africa towards the CAR. The SANDF members will be  deployed,  amongst
   others, to assist with the capacity building of the  Central  African
   Republic Defence Force and to renovate military bases in the CAR.


   This employment was authorised in accordance with the  provisions  of
   section 201(2)(c) of  the  Constitution  of  the  Republic  of  South
   Africa, 1996, read with section 93 of the Defence Act, 2002  (Act  No
   42 of 2002).


   A total of eighty five (85) SANDF members will be employed as soon as
   all logistic arrangements have been completed. The deployment will be
   until 31 March 2008.


   I will communicate this report to members of  the  National  Assembly
   and wish to request  that  you  bring  the  contents  hereof  to  the
   attention of the National Council of Provinces.


   Regards
   signed
   TM MBEKI

                     TUESDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER 2007

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 8 – National Treasury for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 8 for 2006-2007 [RP 139-2007].

2. The Minister of Labour

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Unemployment Insurance Fund (UIF) for 2006-2006, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 162-2007].

   (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority (PSeta) for 2006-2007 [RP 73- 2007].

3. The Minister of Trade and Industry (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Empowerment Fund for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

   (b) Government Notice No 517 published in Government Gazette No 30003 dated 21 June 2007: Repeal Part 1 of the Regulations published by Government Notice No. R2362 of 18 November 1977 in terms of the Trade Metrology Act, 1973 (Act No 77 of 1973).

   (c) Government Notice No R.544 published in Government Gazette No 30023 dated 6 July 2007: Compulsory specification for cement in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

   (d) Government Notice No R.545 published in Government Gazette No 30023 dated 6 July 2007: Regulations relating to the payment of levy and the issue of sales permits in regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993). (e) Government Notice No R.546 published in Government Gazette No 30023 dated 6 July 2007: Regulations relating to the payment of levy and the issue of sales permits in regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

   (f) Government Notice No R.547 published in Government Gazette No 30023 dated 6 July 2007: Regulations relating to the payment of levy and the issue of sales permits in regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993). (g) Government Notice No R.580 published in Government Gazette No 30050 dated 13 July 2007: Standards matters in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

   (h) Government Notice No R.581 published in Government Gazette No 30050 dated 13 July 2007: Incorporation of an external company as a company in the Republic of South Africa: Revere International Limited, in terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).

   (i) Government Notice No R.582 published in Government Gazette No 30050 dated 13 July 2007: Incorporation of an external company as a company in the Republic of South Africa: Delburne Holdings Limited, in terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).

 (j)    Government Notice No 643 published in Government Gazette No
       30074 dated 20 July 2007: Standards matters in terms of the
       Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).
 (k)    Government Notice No 644 published in Government Gazette No
       30074 dated 20 July 2007: Standards matters in terms of the
       Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

 (l)    Government Notice No 648 published in Government Gazette No
       30092 dated 20 July 2007: Companies and Intellectual Property
       Registration Office (CIPRO) – Intellectual Property Division:
       Notice in terms of regulations 3(7) in terms of the Copyright
       Act, 1978 (Act No 98 of 1978).

 (m)    Government Notice No 649 published in Government Gazette No
       30074 dated 20 July 2007: Repeal of Government Notice No 1322 of
       1 September 1995 and publishing of regulations in terms of the
       Trade Metrology Act, 1973 (Act No 77 of 1973).

 (n)    Government Notice No 698 published in Government Gazette No
       30144 dated 10 August 2007: Standards matters in terms of the
       Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

 (o)    Government Notice No 741 published in Government Gazette No
       30189 dated 17 August 2007: Incorporation of an external company
       as a company in the Republic of South Africa: Kotze Investments
       (Pty) Ltd, in terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of
       1973).

 (p)    Government Notice No 781 published in Government Gazette No
       30225 dated 28 August 2007: Rules for the conduct of matters
       before the National Consumer Tribunal in terms of the National
       Credit Act, 2005 (Act No 34 of 2005).

 (q)    Government Notice No 819 published in Government Gazette No
       30254 dated 7 September 2007: Proposed amendment of the
       Compulsory Specification for Vehicles of Category 03 and 04, in
       terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

1. The Minister of Science and Technology (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Research Foundation (NRF) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

2. The Minister of Arts and Culture a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 14 – Department of Arts and Culture for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements of Vote 14 for 2006-2007.

                 WEDNESDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2007
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

(1)     The Minister of Finance
      a) Molaotlhomo wa Lekgethwana la Thomelontle ya Taemane [M 22 –
         2007] (National Assembly – sec 77).

     This is the official translation into Setswana of the Diamond
     Export Levy Bill [B 22 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 77).

     (b)     Molaotlhomo wa Lekgethwana la Thomelontle (Tsamaiso) ya
         Taemane [M 23 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75).


     This is the official translation into Setswana of the Diamond
     Export Levy (Administration) Bill [B 23 – 2007] (National Assembly
     – sec 75).

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(a)    Electronic Communications Amendment Bill, 2007, submitted by the
     Minister of Communications. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Communications and the Select Committee on Labour and Public
     Enterprises.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Transport

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Road Accident Fund (RAF)
     for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 112-2007].

(b)     Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company South
     Africa Limited (ACSA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

(c)     Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and
     Navigation Services Company Limited (ATNS) for 2006-2007, including
     the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
     for 2006-2007.


(d)     Report and Financial Statements of the Railway Safety Regulator
     (RSR) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
     the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 94-2007].

(e)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Civil
     Aviation Authority (SACAA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of
     the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007
     [RP 146-2007].

(f)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Search and
     Rescue Organisation (SASAR) for 2006-2007.

 g) Report of the Regulating Committee of the Airports Company of South
    Africa and Air Navigation Services Company for 2006-2007.    2. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Geoscience
     (CGE) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
     the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 116-2007].


(b)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Nuclear
     Energy Corporation Limited (NECSA) for 2006-2007, including the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-
     2007 [RP 96-2007].

(c)     Report and Financial Statements of the Central Energy Fund
     Group of Companies (CEF) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the Financial
     Statements of the Central Energy Fund Group of Companies for 2006-
     2007 [RP 189-2007].

(d)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Diamond
     Board Fund for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 111-2007].

(e)     Report and Financial Statements of the National Nuclear
     Regulator (NNR) for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 95-2007].

(f)     Report and Financial Statements of Mineral Technology (Mintek)
     for 2006-2007, including the Report f the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 109-2007].
(g)     Report and Financial Statements of the Mine Health and Safety
     Council for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 26-2007].

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Ingonyama Trust Board for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 210-2007].

                    THURSDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 2007
   

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the South African Human
     Rights Commission (SAHRC) for 2006-2007, including the Report of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP
     132-2007].

1. The Minister of Finance

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Regulatory
     Board for Auditors for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.
(b)     Government Notice No 824 published in Government Gazette No
     30264 dated 7 September 2007: Notice of allocations per
     municipality for Schedule 7 local government conditional grants, in
     accordance with sections 8(3) and 22(1)(a) of the Division of
     Revenue Act, 2007 (Act No 1 of 2007).

1. The Minister of Transport

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 33 – Department of Transport for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements of Vote 33 for 2006-2007.

2. The Minister of Social Development

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 18 – Department of Social Development for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 18 for 2006- 2007 [RP 203-2007].

3. The Minister of Communications

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Universal Service and Access Agency of South Africa (USAASA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial for 2006-2007 [RP 169-2007].

4. The Minister of Labour

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Fund for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 51-2007]. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Energy Sector Education and Training Authority (Eseta) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 61-2007].

5. The Minister of Public Works

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Agrément South Africa for 2006-2007.

6. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 23 – Department of Justice and Constitutional Development for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 23 for 2006-2007 [RP 119-2007].

   (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Presidents’ Fund for 2006- 2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 120-2007].

7. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 27 – Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 27 for 2006-2007 [RP 80-2007].

8. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the Electricity Distribution Industrial Holdings (Pty) Ltd (EDIH) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006- 2007.

9. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Water Research Commission for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 147-2007].

   (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority (TCTA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

10. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs

    (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 25 – Department of Agriculture for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements of Vote 25 for 2006-2007 [RP 216-2007].

    b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 29 – Department of Land Affairs for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 29 for 2006-2007 [RP 209-2007].

                      FRIDAY, 28 SEPTEMBER 2007
    

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bill submitted

(1)     The Minister of Finance


    a) Bankwysigingswetsontwerp [W 12 – 2007] (National Assembly –
       proposed sec 75).

     This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Banks
     Amendment Bill [B 12 – 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec
     75).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 3 – Department of Foreign Affairs for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 3 for 2006-2007.

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the African Renaissance and
     International Co-operation Fund for 2006-2007, including the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-
     2007.

1. The Minister of Finance

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 13 - Statistics South
     Africa for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for Vote 13 for 2006-2007 [RP 104-
     2007].

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 5 – Department of
     Provincial and Local Government for 2006-2007, including the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote
     5 for 2006-2007.

 (b)    Report and  Financial  Statements  of  Municipal  Infrastructure
     Investment  Unit  (Proprietary)  Limited  (MIIU)  for   2006-2007,
     including the Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the  Financial
     Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 27-2007].

 (c)    Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Municipal  Demarcation
     Board for 2006-2007, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 218-2007].

1. The Minister of Social Development

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Social
     Security Agency for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 100-2007].

1. The Minister of Communications

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of Vote 26 – Department of
     Communications for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements of Vote 26 for 2006-2007 [RP
     204-2007].

(b)     Report and Financial Statements of the National Electronic Media
     Institute of South Africa for 2006-2007, including the  Report  of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of  2006-2007  [RP
     185-2007].

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 10 – Department of Public Service and Administration for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 10 for 2006-2007 [RP 220-2007].

   (b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 12 – South African Management Development Institute (SAMDI) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 12 for 2006-2007.

2. The Minister of Labour

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements  of  Vote  17  –  Department  of
     Labour for 2006-2007, including the Report of the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements of Vote 17 for 2006-2007 [RP 49-2007].

1. The Minister of Public Works

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 6 – Department of Public
     Works for 2006-2007, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements of Vote 6 for 2006-2007.

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the  Independent  Development
     Trust for 2006-2007, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 182-2007].

 (c)    Report and Financial Statements of the Council for the Built
     Environment (CBE) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

 (d)    Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Construction  Industry
     Development Board (CIDB) for 2006-2007, including  the  Report  of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Health

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 16 – Department of
     Health for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements of Vote 16 for 2006-2007 [RP 115-
     2007].

1. The Minister of Housing

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Servcon Housing Solutions
     (Proprietary) Limited for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Safety and Security

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 22 – Independent
     Complaints Directorate (ICD) for 2006-2007, including the Report
     of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 22 for
     2006-2007 [RP 223-2007].

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Boxing South Africa for 2006-
     2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
     Statements for 2006-2007.

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the South  African  Drug-Free
     Sport for 2006-2007, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 148-2007].

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 32 – Department of Trade
     and Industry for 2006-2007, including the Report of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements of Vote 32 for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Science and Technology

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the Africa Institute of South
     Africa for 2006-2007, including the Report of the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 215-2007].

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of Academy of Science  of  South
     Africa for 2006-2007, including  the  Report  of  the  Independent
     Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements  of  Vote  30  –  Department  of
     Minerals and Energy for 2006-2007, including  the  Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 30  for  2006-
     2007 [RP 35-2007].

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of Vote 34 – Department of Water
     Affairs and Forestry for 2006-2007, including the  Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 34  for  2006-
     2007 [RP 201-2007.

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of Inkomati Catchment Management
     Agency for 2006-2007, including  the  Report  of  the  Independent
     Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 177-2007].

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of  the  Land  and  Agricultural
     Bank of South Africa (Land  Bank)  for  2006-2007,  including  the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-
     2007 [RP 219-2007].

 (b)    Report and Financial Statements  of  the  National  Agricultural
     Marketing Council (NAMC) for 2006-2007, including  the  Report  of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007  [RP
     1-2007].

  c) Report and Financial Statements of Onderstepoort Biological
     Products Limited for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.


                       MONDAY, 1 OCTOBER 2007

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister of Communications

     (a)     Electronic Communications Amendment Bill [B 38 – 2007]
          (National Assembly– proposed sec 75) [Bill and prior notice
          of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 30307
          of 17 September 2007.]


          Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
          Communications of the National Assembly, as well as referral
          to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in
          terms of Joint Rule 160.


          In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
          of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three
          parliamentary working days.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

(a)      Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  National  Nuclear
     Regulator (NNR) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 95-2007].

    Please note: The abovementioned item is a correction of item 2(e)
    under the entry “Tablings” published on page 1898 of the
    Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports of 26 September 2007.

1. The Minister of Housing

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of  Vote  28  –  Department  of
     Housing for 2006-2007, including the Report of the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements of Vote 28 for 2006-2007 [RP 113-2007].

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

(a)     Upliftment of the provisional suspension of a magistrate: Mr  M
     S Makamu, a senior magistrate at Benoni.


(b)     Report in terms of section 13(4)(a)  of  the  Magistrates  Act,
     1993 (Act No 90 of 1993): Suspension of a  magistrate:  Mr  T  V  D
     Matyolo.

(c)     Progress Report dated 10 September 2007 to Parliament in  terms
     of section 13(3) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of  1993):
     Inquiry into allegations of misconduct: Mr M F Mathe.

(d)     Progress Report dated 10 September 2007 to Parliament in  terms
     of section 13(3) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of  1993):
     Inquiry into allegations of misconduct: Mr M K Chauke.

(e)     Progress Report dated 10 September 2007 to Parliament in  terms
     of section 13(3) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of  1993):
     Inquiry into allegations of misconduct: Mr M F Mathe.

    f) Progress Report dated 10 September 2007 to Parliament  in  terms
       of section 13(3) of the Magistrates Act,  1993  (Act  No  90  of
       1993): Inquiry into allegations of misconduct: Mr I X Masimini.

1. The Minister of Education

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of  Vote  15  –  Department  of
     Education for 2006-2007,  including  the  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements of Vote 15  for  2006-2007  [RP
     110-2007].

1. The Minister of Science and Technology (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Tshumisano Trust for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

                    TUESDAY, 2 OCTOBER 2007
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Assent by President in respect of Bills

a) Repeal of the Black Administration Act and Amendment of Certain Laws
   Amendment Bill [B 34 – 2007] – Act No 13 of 2007 (assented to and
   signed by President on 26 September 2007).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   a) Report and Financial Statements of National Prosecuting Authority for 2006-2007, including the Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 and on the Financial Statements of the Criminal Assets Recovery Account for 2006-2007.

                     WEDNESDAY, 3 OCTOBER 2007
   

TABLINGS

National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

(a)     Rules made in terms of section 7(3) of the Promotion of
     Administrative Justice Act, 2000 (Act No 3 of 2000).

COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Employment of SANDF to Uganda, dated 14 September 2007:

   The Joint Standing Committee on Defence, having considered the letter from the President on the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) to Uganda, referred to the Committee, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.

2. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Employment of SANDF to the Union of Comoros, dated 14 September 2007:

   The Joint Standing Committee on Defence, having considered the letter from the President on the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) to the Union of Comoros, referred to the Committee, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.

3. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Employment of SANDF within the Republic of South Africa, 14 September 2007:

   The Joint Standing Committee on Defence, having considered the letter from the President on the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) within the Republic of South Africa, referred to the Committee, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.

4. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Employment of SANDF to Zambia, dated 14 September 2007:

   The Joint Standing Committee on Defence, having considered the letter from the President on the employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) to Zambia, referred to the Committee, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon

                    MONDAY, 8 OCTOBER 2007 ANNOUNCEMENTS
   

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

(1)     The Minister of Sport and Recreation


      a) Umthethosivivinywa Kazwelonke Wochibiyela Ezemidlalo Kanye
         Nezokuzithokozisa [B 17B – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75).




     This is the official translation into isiZulu of the National
     Sport and Recreation Amendment Bill [B 17B – 2006] (National
     Assembly – sec 75).


(2)     The Minister of Housing


      a) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Beskermingsmaatreëls vir Behuisings-
         verbruikers [W 6 – 2007] (Nasional Assembly – sec 76).


     This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Housing
     Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill [B 6 – 2007]
     (National Assembly – sec 76).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Correctional Services

(a)    Report and Financial Statements  of  Vote  20  –  Department  of
     Correctional Services for 2006-2007, including the  Report  of  the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote  20  for  2006-
     2007 [RP 217-2007].

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs

(a)    Report and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Perishable  Products
     Export Control Board (PPECB) for 2006-2007, including the Report of
     the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Transport

Letter from the Minister of Transport, dated 04 October  2007,  to  the
Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section 65(2)(a)  of  the
Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999), explaining  the
delay in the tabling of the Annual Reports of  South  African  Maritime
Safety Authority, the Cross-Border Road  Transport  Agency,  the  Urban
Transport Fund and the Road Traffic Management  Corporation  for  2006-
2007.
WRITTEN EXPLANATION ON THE LATE SUBMISSION AND TABLING  OF  THE  ANNUAL
REPORTS AND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN  MARITIME  SAFETY
AUTHORITY (SAMSA), THE CROSS-BORDER ROAD TRANSPORT AGENCY (C-BRTA), THE
URBAN TRANSPORT FUND (UTF) AND THE ROAD TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT  CORPORATION
(RTMC) FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31 MARCH 2007


I write to inform Parliament that in terms of section 65(2)(a)  of  the
Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No  1  of  1999),  as  amended
(PFMA), I was unfortunately not able to table the  Annual  Reports  and
audited Financial Statements for the year ended 31 March 2007   of  the
South African Maritime Safety Authority (SAMSA), the Cross-Border  Road
Transport Agency (C-BRTA), the Urban Transport Fund (UTF) and the  Road
Traffic  Management  Corporation  (RTMC)  before  the  deadline  of  30
September 2007.


The explanation of the late tabling of the Annual Reports  in  question
is that the SAMSA, C-BRTA, UTF and RTMC could not submit  their  Annual
Reports in time, because unforeseen delays that have  been  experienced
with the office of the Auditor-General  in  submitting  the  respective
Audit Reports on the Entities’ Financial Statements for the year  ended
31 March 2007 to be included in their 2006-2007 Annual Reports.
Arrangements will, however, be  made  for  the  above-mentioned  Public
Entities’ Annual  Reports  to  be  tabled  in  Parliament  as  soon  as
possible.


I trust that this will be in order.


Kind regards
Mr J T Radebe, MP
Minister of Transport

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

Report of the Mine Health and Safety Inspectorate for 2006-2007.

                       TUESDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2007

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

   (a) Government Notice No R.824 published in Government Gazette No 30264 dated 7 September 2007: Allocations per Municipality in terms of Sections 8(3) and 22(1)(a) of the Act for the following Schedule 7 Local Government Conditional Grants: (1) Bulk Infrastructure Grant, (2) Backlogs in Water and Sanitation at Clinics and Schools Grant, and (3) Backlogs in the Electrification of Clinics and Schools Grant in term of the Division of Revenue Act, 2007 (Act No 1 of 2007).

   (b) Government Notice No R.835 published in Government Gazette No 30276 dated 14 September 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 1 (No. 1/11344) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (c) Government Notice No R.836 published in Government Gazette No 30276 dated 14 September 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 3 (No. 3/619) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (d) Government Notice No R.837 published in Government Gazette No 30276 dated 14 September 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 3 (No. 3/620) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (e) Government Notice No R.838 published in Government Gazette No 30276 dated 14 September 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 4 (No. 4/306) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

2. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Commission on Gender Equality (CGE) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007 [RP 176-2007].

                   THURSDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2007 ANNOUNCEMENTS
   

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

       1. Assent by President in respect of Bills
       2.
  a) Special Adjustments Appropriation Bill (2007/08 Financial Year) [B
     37 – 2007] – Act No 16 of 2007 (assented to and signed by
     President on 1 October 2007).

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism

(1)     The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(6),
     classified the following Bill as a section 75 Bill:


     (a)     Electronic Communications Amendment Bill [B 38 – 2007]
          (National Assembly – sec 75)

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation

   a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 19 – Department of Sport and Recreation South Africa for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 19 for 2006-2007 [RP 106-2007].

                    FRIDAY, 12 OCTOBER 2007
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

(1)     The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development


     a) Bili ya ho Fana ka Matlataelo a Mekgwa-Tsamaiso ya Diprovense [B
        8 – 2007] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76).

     This is the official translation into seSotho of the Mandating
     Procedures of Provinces Bill [B 8 – 2007] (National Council of
     Provinces – sec 76).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Education

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council
     for Educators (SACE) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the
     Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

(b)     Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Quality
     Assurance in General and Further Education and Training – Umalusi
     for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on
     the Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Withdrawal of tabling of draft rules

(a)     A letter dated 18 July 2007 was received from the Minister for
     Justice and Constitutional Development, requesting the withdrawal
     of the draft rules made in terms of section 7(2)(c) of the Criminal
     Procedure Amendment Act, 2003 (Act No 42 of 2003), tabled on 28
     February 2007.


  b) Correspondence received from Mrs J J C Thompson (nee Coetzee).


    Referred to the Select Committee on Members’ and Provincial
    Legislative Proposals.

COMMITTEE REPORTS National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Annual Report and Financial Statements for 2006/2007 of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, dated 9 October 2007:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having been briefed by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry on its Annual Report and Financial Statements of Vote 34 for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 34 for 2006-2007, referred to it, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.

                   TUESDAY, 16 OCTOBER 2007
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

   1) The Minister for Public Enterprises

    a) Mulayotibe wa Afrika Tshipembe wa u Bvisela Khagala Vhudipfi
       [M 14 – 2007] (National Assembly– sec 75).
   

   This is the official translation into TshiVenda of the South African Express Bill [B 14 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75).

   2) The Minister of Sport and Recreation

   (a) Umthethosivivinywa Kazwelonke Wochibiyela Ezemidlalo kanye Nezokuzithokozisa [B 17B – 2006] (National Assembly– sec 75).

   This is the official translation into isiZulu of the National Sport and Recreation Amendment Bill [B 17B – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

(a)     Annual Economic Report of the South African Reserve Bank for
     2007.

(b)     Address of the Governor of the South African Reserve Bank – 20
     September 2007.

1. The Minister of Housing

(a)     Report and Financial Statements of Thubelisha Homes for 2006-
     2007, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
     Financial Statements for 2006-2007.

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Energy Regulator of South Africa (NERSA) for 2006-2007, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2006- 2007 [RP 167-2007].

                    WEDNESDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2007
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

1) The Minister for Public Enterprises


        a) Molaokakanywa wa Broadband Infraco [M 26 – 2007] (National
           Assembly– sec 75).

     This is the official translation into Sepedi of the Broadband
     Infraco Bill [B 26 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75).

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed and transmitted

(1)     Bills passed by National Assembly on 16 October 2007 and
     transmitted for concurrence:


     (a)     South African Express Bill [B 14B – 2007] (National
          Assembly – sec 75)


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Labour and
     Public Enterprises of the National Council of Provinces.


     (b)     Broadband Infraco Bill [B 26B – 2007] (National Assembly –
          sec 75)


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Labour and
     Public Enterprises of the National Council of Provinces.

                      THURSDAY, 18 OCTOBER 2007

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed and transmitted

(1)     Bills passed by National Assembly on 18 October 2007 and
     transmitted for concurrence:


     (a)     Correctional Services Amendment Bill [B 32B – 2007]
          (National Assembly – sec 75)


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Security and
     Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.


     (b)     Social Housing Bill [B 29B – 2007] (National Assembly –
          sec 76 (1))


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Public
     Services of the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Safety and Security

(a)     Proclamation No R.19 published in Government Gazette No 30162
     dated 10 Augustus 2007: Notification by President in accordance
     with section 25 of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy
     against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004 (Act No 33 of
     2004).

(b)     Proclamation No R.24 published in Government Gazette No 30252
     dated 7 September 2007: Notification by President in accordance
     with section 25 of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy
     against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004 (Act No 33 of
     2004).

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

(a)     Proclamation No R.21 published in Government Gazette No 30245
     dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of
     1996).

(b)     Proclamation No R.22 published in Government Gazette No 30245
     dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of
     1996).

(c)     Proclamation No R.23 published in Government Gazette No 30245
     dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of
     1996).

(d)     Proclamation No R.25 published in Government Gazette No 30290
     dated 12 September 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of
     1996). National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

a) Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence (JSCI) for the financial year ended 31 March 2006.

CREDA SCAN ATTACHED DOCUMENT – PAGES 1944-1968

                       FRIDAY, 19 OCTOBER 2007

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bills submitted

   1) The Minister of Housing

    a) Wetsontwerp op Maatskaplike Behuising  [W 29 – 2007]
       (National Assembly– sec 76).
   

   This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Social Housing Bill [B 29 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76).

   b) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Huurbehuising  [W 30 – 2007] (National
      Assembly– sec 76).
   

   This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Rental Housing Amendment Bill [B 30 – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on the study tour to Algeria, dated 18 September 2007:

The Joint Standing Committee on Defence having undertaken a study tour
to the People’s Democratic Republic of Algeria from 26 November to 1
December 2006, reports as follows:


 1. Background: Algeria


    Algeria, in northwest Africa on the Mediterranean coast, is the
    second largest country in Africa after Sudan. The Sahara covers more
    than four-fifths of its territory, where the inhabitants are
    concentrated in oases. More than 90 percent of Algerians live along
    the Mediterranean coastlands on only 12 percent of the country’s
    land.


    Since antiquity Algeria has enticed settlers- Phoenicians, Romans,
    Arabs, Turks- and, in the 19th century, French farmers. The French
    organized Algeria into departments and disenfranchised native Arabs
    and Berbers. In 1954 Algerians rebelled. The war that followed took
    a million lives before independence in 1962 and a million French
    colonists left. This conflict forged a deep rooted sense of Algerian
    national identity. The Front Liberation Nationale (FLN), who led the
    liberation struggle against France, became Algeria’s only legal
    political party at independence (1962) resulting in Algeria becoming
    a socialist single-party state under the FLN.


1.1     Relations with South Africa.


    Algeria remains SA’s strategic partner in North Africa based on
    economic and political criteria. Synergy at the executive level in
    terms of the AU and NEPAD has resulted in a Presidential Bi-
    national Commission. Bilateral trade and business links have
    developed slowly due to a difficult business environment and weak
    direct links between the two countries. Growing relations exist in
    the sectors of military technical and military industrial co-
    operation.


    Bilaterally, South Africa and Algeria have developed close co-
    operation in the field of defence and intelligence. South African
    defence companies are continuing projects with Algeria and tendering
    for new contracts. The second Joint Committee in charge of co-
    operation in the field of Defence was held in March 2006 where it
    was agreed to extend a range of interactions such as training
    programmes, joint exercises, technology transfer and exploring
    military production capabilities and partnerships.


2.      Composition of JSCD Delegation.


      • Mr S D Montsitsi, (ANC), Chairperson and Leader of the
        Delegation
      • Mr  M A Mzizi (IFP)
      • Ms M D Nxumalo (ANC)
      • Mr J Schippers (ANC) and
      • Mr J Ramrock (Committee Secretary)


3.      Objectives of the visit


    The objective of the visit was to study how Algeria was able to
    introduce a successful pension scheme system, including, programmes
    and projects that assisted and alleviated the plight of their
    military veterans. Algeria is also one of few countries on the
    continent leading with respect to creating and improving the best
    conditions for exit mechanism for military veterans.


 4. Findings.


4.1     Meeting with Conseil de la Nation (Upper House of Parliament).


    The delegation was met and welcomed by the Acting Chair of the
    Committee on Defence, General A Cheloufi and other Committee
    members. General Cheloufi spoke of the warm relations between
    Algeria and South Africa and the common historical background
    (colonisation) shared by the two countries. Algeria fought a long
    and bitter war of liberation against France. Various military
    factions combined to form the National Liberation Front (FLN).
    Liberation forces were not paid a salary but were very committed.
    Dedicated former combatants were deployed into various governing
    positions after liberation. Patriotism played a major unity role
    including the move from a liberation army to a national army.
    Political involvement by defence force members was discouraged and
    those that wanted to participate in politic were asked to leave the
    army and join political parties of their choice. Transforming the
    army into a professional army became a big problem initially, but
    this was overcome later. A Ministry of Veteran Affairs was later
    formed.


  . Meeting with Assembly National Populaire (Lower House of
    Parliament).


    Mr Mouhamed Dif, Chairperson of the Committee on Defence, and other
    members of the Committee in the Lower House, addressed the
    delegation on the history of the Algerian Parliament including the
    different political parties and number of seats held by them.
    Pension payments are regulated by legislation that included in it
    the modernization of the Algerian army.


    The Ministry of Defence was responsible for the pension payment of
    liberation fighters who remained in the barracks after the war.
    There were two categories of fighters: those that fought in the bush
    and those that fought outside the bush. War veterans, including
    widows of war veterans, all received pension benefits. The number of
    years fought in the struggle is doubled for counting the number of
    years as experience.


    Priority was given to the setting up of centers for benefit payments
    to war veterans and, in particular, war orphans. Statistics were
    collected countrywide, one year after liberation, on the number of
    war orphans, including the sons and daughters of martyrs. They
    received free education, health and other social benefits. Females
    were assisted until they marry and those who stay un-married were
    provided with pension for life.
4.3     Meeting with the South African Ambassador.


    The delegation met the South African Ambassador to Algeria, Mr R S
    Moloi, and his officials for a briefing session. The Ambassador
    reminded the delegation of the historical close ties South Africa
    shares with Algeria and what steps are in place to try and
    strengthen those ties. Algeria is a founding member of NEPAD and
    continues to give active support to the NEPAD Secretariat. President
    Bouteflika wants to be associated with South Africa, and believes
    that if the two countries are seen as close allies within the
    continent and beyond, it will assist him in driving his African and
    global vision domestically.


    The Algerian market holds substantial potential for South African
    investors. Hydrocarbons, pharmaceuticals, infrastructural
    construction, the financial and manufacturing sectors offer
    lucrative opportunities. An incomplete transformation to a market
    economy in Algeria, limits the potential for Algerian direct
    investment and private sector involvement in South Africa.


    Algeria is also experiencing a serious security challenge in the
    east, where Islamic insurgents have staged frequent attacks
    targeting government buildings.


4.4     Meeting with the Secretary – General of the Ministry of
    Moudjahidine (War Veterans)


    The Secretary – General of the Ministry of Moudjahidine (War
    Veterans) briefed the delegation on the historical reasons for the
    establishment of the Ministry. The war of liberation was very
    costly, in terms of lost of lives and other casualties. Over one
    million Algerians were killed and some 700,000 disabled. The first
    task of the Ministry of Moudjahidine was to identify and create
    files of those who died and those that were disabled. So, a file
    existed for each person in that category. All provinces in the
    country have special departments with full data on all martyrs and
    their beneficiaries. The disabled and the families of those that
    were killed were given preference on social and other state
    benefits. The widows and children of martyrs were provided with full
    pension payments, the same with the disabled depending on the
    severity of the injury. Medical coverage, including prosthetics at
    all military and state hospitals was free for all beneficiaries, the
    same with medicine from pharmacies. They were also provided with
    discounts on state transport, including sea, air, road and rail.
    Those with severe handicaps travelled free. Discount on house
    renting were also provided. Beneficiaries received physiotherapy and
    free accommodation at guest houses, including spas. Projects on land
    and agriculture, and mining exploration, were also availed to
    veterans.


    The 40th anniversary of Algerian independence (2002) became the cut-
    off date for registration of claims.


    4.4.1     Department of Heritage.


         The delegation also visited the Department of Heritage,
         responsible for the collecting, writing and distribution of
         reading and printing of books, documents and other materials,
         including films on the revolution.


    4.4.2     Data and filing section.


         The data and filing section contained case documents on each
         and every individual registered for benefits, some 7 km of
         material.
         Each beneficiary received an amount of 10,000 Lira (R1,000)
         every three (3) months. This is paid out at specific centers
         including post offices. Monitoring is done through the issuing
         of “living certificates” each year to beneficiaries that
         provide certified forms. The pension of parents who died is
         transferred to their children until they reach the age of 18
         years or 21 years if attending school/college/university.


         The budget for the Ministry of Veteran Affairs is the fourth
         largest of their National Budget.


    4.4.3     Cultural and Historical Heritage Directorate.


         The Cultural and Historical Heritage Directorate works very
         closely with the Department of Heritage. It also deals with
         the caption and recording of events related to the revolution.
         It is also responsible for the protection and maintenance of
         monuments and the grave sites of martyrs. This is in
         partnership with NGO’s in the various provinces, who also
         oversee museums. The Directorate is also responsible for the
         servicing of the National Wall of Remembrance situated in the
         capital, Algiers. The Wall contains the names of all martyrs
         and is commemorated each year. The Algerian calendar provides
         for nine different days to celebrate the Revolution.


 5. Meeting with Officials from the Ministry of Defence


    The delegation met with officials from the Ministry of Defence who
    re-iterated the views expressed earlier by other officials, on the
    system on pension and social security. When people within the
    Defence force retire they are provided with three months salary in
    advance. Pension is calculated according to the minimum national
    wage. The amount a person gets depends on the number of service
    years he/she has, for example. an ordinary soldier qualifies only
    after 15 years of service; someone with 25 years of service can
    receive a pension immediately.


    The pension retirement age for ordinary soldiers is 40 and for
    officers 60.


    Veteran’s pension payment depends on rank and number of service
    years. The revolutionary period is regarded as service years.


    Military service is compulsory to every citizen.


    Treasury has special agreements with commercial banks to stand as
    guarantors for military veterans when loans are sought, although
    granting a loan is not automatic.


    The Military Pension Act is going through review at the moment to
    fit the current situation and concerns of pensioners.


    There is also legislation in place that forbids any discharged
    military person from joining any security related company for at
    least five years.


5.1     Visit to the Central Museum of the Army.


    Members of the delegation were also able to visit the Central Museum
    of the Army, which was created by a decree of the Ministry of
    National Defence and was inaugurated 1 November , 1984, the
    thirtieth anniversary of the Algerian Revolution.
    The Museum is a military institution managed by the Directory of
    Communication, Information and Orientation.


    The museum houses more than 3000 objects and works, including over
    2000 books, thousands of documents and archives that were collected
    in a decade. Through the history that it exposed, the museum is a
    vivid institution in which an attractive and spectacular evolution
    is exhibited, and also serves as a library for historical research.


    It periodically organizes exhibitions showing the different
    historical periods such as the different battles (naval and land)
    fought earlier.


6.      Conclusion


    The delegation believes that it met its objectives with the study
    tour. The experience of the Algerian experiment in assisting their
    Military Veterans with sustainable and viable social security
    benefits is strongly recommended as a model to other African
    countries. South Africa has an opportunity to try and address and
    correct some of the challenges experienced by Military Veterans in
    the Republic of South Africa. The sacrifices made by these brave men
    and women of our country, beg for nothing more and nothing less.


    The Committee wishes to thank our Ambassador, Mr R S Moloi, for his
    hospitality and assistance to the delegation and for availing his
    officials, in particular Ms Roshan Dadoo, who played a sterling part
    in making the visit a success.


                       MONDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2007 COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the study tour to North-West, dated 11 July 2007:

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having undertaken an oversight visit to North West on 20 – 24 November, reports as follows:

1. Introduction

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs undertook an oversight visit to various prisons, Courts and police stations in the North West from the 20th - 24th November 2006.

1.1 Composition of the delegation

The NCOP delegation was composed of the following:

     • Kgoshi L M Mokoena, (ANC) (Chairperson and  the  leader  of  the
       delegation)
     • Mr Z C Ntuli, (ANC)
     • Ms F Nyanda (ANC)
     • Mr A L Moseki, (ANC)
     • Mr N J Mack (ANC)
     • Mr A T  Manyosi
     • Mr L  Fielding (DA)
     • Mr M  Mzizi (IFP)
     • Mr Moiloa (NNW  Special  delegate)  Chairperson  for  Transport,
       Roads and Community Safety
     • Mr Baloyi, Member of the Provincial Legislature
     • Ms N G Dinizulu (Acting Committee Secretary)
     • Mr K Lobi (Committee Assistant)

Departmental Officials:

The delegation was accompanied by Provincial Commissioner Beetha (SAPS); Regional Commisioner Tshivhase (Correctional Services); Director from the Department of Safety and Security, Mr L R Motlogeloa and officials; Director from the Department of Correctional Services Mr S Mzanywa and officials; Department of Justice; Mr T Malema, Regional Head and Glenice Nkotsoe, Director: Court Operations and court officials, Bailey Mahlakoleng from the Department of Transport Road and Community Safety.; and Mr Baloyi, Member of the Provincial Legislature.

1.2. Purpose of the study tour

        • To visit prisons to assess the extent of overcrowding and, as
          part of the oversight function, to see if the institution  is
          functioning properly.
        •  To  find  out  whether  there  are  situations  where  young
          juveniles are mixed with hardened criminals.
        • To check whether awaiting trial prisoners are a factor in the
          level of overcrowding.
        • To check whether  the  delays  in  the  completion  of  cases
          contribute to overcrowding.
        • To  understand  challenges  confronting  the  Departments  of
          Safety and Security, Correctional Services and Justice.
        • To monitor the implementation of laws passed  by  Parliament,
          and to identify obstacles in the implementation of such laws.
        • To check if there is any counselling offered to the prisoners
          and  finally  how  Parliament  can  offer  assistance   where
          necessary

The Committee has identified a number of issues that need attention and investigation, and these include: • The urgent renovation of existing dilapidated building cells by the Department of Public Works. • Intervention by the committee in the recovery of the livestock that is held in Botswana. • Revisiting the working hours of the Small Claims Court. • Delimitations and reviewal of magisterial jurisdictional areas so that, to the extent possible, they are in line with post-apartheid demarcate ring. • Interaction among the three Departments: Correctional Services, Justice and Safety and Security to ensure a synergy and maximum co- operation amongst these law enforcement agents.

1. CENTRES VISITED

The Committee visited the following Police Stations, Magistrates Courts and Correctional Centres:

Police Stations: Rustenburg Itsoseng Lemanyaneng Mafikeng Zeerust Lichtenburg Tlhabane Swartriggens Nietverdient Motswedi Magistrates Court: Lehutse Lichtenburg Mabatho Bafokeng

Correctional Centres: Ramotlana (Rustenburg) Zeerust Lichtenburg Rooigrond Mafikeng

1. BRIEFING BY CLUSTER DEPARTMENTS The Committee was briefed by three departments, namely, Safety and Security, Justice and Correctional Services, which form part of the Peace and Stability Cluster. The Head of each of these departments gave an overview of the state of their respective departments.

3.1 Briefing by Department of South African Police Service (SAPS)

Deputy Commissioner Mpembe mentioned that the major problem the department is faced with is overcrowding in the holding cells. To manage this, they do not keep prisoners on awaiting trial in their holding cells after first appearance in court. They are sent to other prisons where there is sufficient accommodation. These prisoners have to be placed in prisons not far from the court. Most of the stations in rural areas have the capacity to detain prisoners. The stations must detain prisoners who committed serious crime such as heist and they have to be placed in separate cells. One of the challenges is to transport prisoners from one place to another because of the distance between the police stations, prisons and the Courts. Crime is highly controlled in the North West province. Currently the focus is on strengthening the stations but this depends on the allocation of staff which is done by the National Office.

3.2 Briefing by Department of Correctional Services

Most difficult challenges are overcrowding and HIV infections. The solution is to reduce the numbers by transferring prisoners to their respective provinces. Another challenge is that of foreign prisoners. It is very expensive to maintain them. The department recommends that foreign prisoners be transferred to their respective countries once their cases have been finalised.

The Minister launched operation Masibambisane and the Regional Commissioner introduced the project to the executive mayoral committee and traditional leaders, who are very supportive of the operation. The project promotes co- operation by all role-players.

The Commissioner is targeting 64 municipalities and has engaged the House of Traditional leaders in each province as well as councillors to assist in educating the community to accept ex-prisoners.

HIV/AIDS is a problem in prisons. Prisoners as well as officials are encouraged to voluntarily check their status. The department is engaged in discussions with the Portfolio Committee on Correctional services to change the system of recruitment in terms of age. They are proposing that with the recruitment of prison officials, the requirement should be 23 years instead of 18 years. They feel that at the age of 18 the person is not matured enough to deal with the challenges in prison.

The budget allocated to the Province is R900 million and the department is trying its best to spend the money effectively and efficiently.

3.3 Briefing by Department of Justice

The Department has appointed staff at senior levels, with the aim of strengthening the courts. The challenge is the lack of human capacity needed for some courts to function effectively. At the moment the courts have to operate with a lot of temporary staff. The Department is in the process of filling vacancies with experienced and skilled staff. Courts have not been adequately equipped for the new challenges. In many cases, mobile units are set up in order to cope with the situation. The new leadership promised to tighten the security in Courts. Customer service unit has been established to ensure that the principle of Batho Pele is implemented. The holding cells in Klerksdorp are in a bad condition. They need to be upgraded and the matter has been reported to the Department of Public Works. Some courts cannot sit in the afternoon because it is extremely hot. Facilitates and equipment have been purchased to make the offices more user friendly. There are 33 courts in the province including the High Court. The budget allocated to the province is R149 million.

1. VISIT TO RUSTENBURG POLICE STATION

Rustenburg Police Station is in the Marico Policing Area. Currently the station has 364 members. The station has a staff shortage of 34 members according to the figures they obtained from National Office. The station has 20 shifts of reservists, which are allocated 16 hours per week. They are being paid an allowance. The station is faced with an urgent task of locating and arresting the ten most wanted suspects for drugs and repeat offences.

The station is in the process of negotiating with the Municipality to get a site to build a police station. The cells were built in 1957. An approval was granted to renovate the police station. Up to now nothing has been done to fulfil that undertaking.

Problems that the station is faced with include overcrowding and transporting prisoners to different police stations. Transporting the prisoners from point A to B only to be told that the case has been postponed, leaves inadequate time for members to deal with crime, which is their core business.

Currently the station has 66 vehicles and a shortage of 22 vehicles. When a staff member dies, the resultant vacant post is reported to the Area Manager and the province. They are responsible for the employment and deployment of staff. Case dockets are opened at the Community Service Centres and transferred to the Detective Services. They are received by the members on standby. The Data Typist at Detective Services distributes dockets amongst the detective officers that must acknowledge receipt thereof.

Analysis: The movement of the case dockets is recorded on the system. Control registers are in place to secure the movement of the case dockets between police stations and courts. The police station building is secured, but there is a need for lockable steel cabinets for each detective to tighten security measures.

The Community Police Forum (CPF’s): CPF’s haven established in the Police area. CPF members are expected to adhere to a code of conduct. There is a Training Centre in Benoni to train some of the reservists to do clerical work.

Successes: The Station has arrested one member who was selling dockets. Stock theft is not a problem for the Rustenburg police station. The only place that experienced major stock theft is Madikwe which is close to the border.

4.1 Illegal Immigrants

The problem here is not only their illegal status, but they are also involved in the commission of their crimes such as heists. These crimes are viewed in the most serious light and the station is sensitively handling the cases.

4.2 Crime Prevention

• Rustenburg is a high labour intensive area.
• The area is endowed with huge work opportunities.
• There is an intensive patrolling system in place.
• There is a unit responsible for policing farms
• Victim Support program is also running well.

The Department is engaged with the preparations for the 2010 soccer games, training staff members on effective methods of protecting the public, and this making sure that there will be peace and order in South Africa during that period.

1. VISIT TO RUSTENBURG COURT

5.1 Meeting with Magistrates and Senior Prosecutors from Bafokeng Court and Rustenburg Court

The Court was built 30 years ago. The Regional Court has sufficient space, but they lack staff at different levels. Cases are being remanded due to the shortage of staff. About 40 to 60 cases are reported on a daily basis. Currently there are 42 cases that need to be dealt with. Rustenburg is the fastest growing area in South Africa. There is a staff component of 22 Prosecutors with one Senior Prosecutor and two District Magistrates. The posts which must be filled before end of the financial year have been advertised. The existing staff has performed very well under difficult circumstances. The court is in need of a reception court. They also have a mobile court standing on the premises. The court has a good working relationship with the local police stations.

Rustenburg court is engaged in various projects, such as: • Automation of maintenance • E- Scheduler, to measure statistics • Digital recording • Extension of Small Claims Court • System improvements plan

1. 2 Challenges facing the court

   • Most holding cells and ablution facilities are not good for human habitation and use, • Some of the Courts are inadequate for the number of Judicial Officers; • Staff work under stressful conditions because of the staff shortage; • The Bafokeng Magistrates Court has to streamline the operation for beneficiaries to be paid maintenance more efficiently; • Operation Sondlo - the beneficiaries do not understand how maintenance works; • The Small Claims Court is very small and has few staff members to cope with its work; • The increase of informal settlements, with unemployed people, results in an increase in crime in the area, and • Most of the people are unaware of their rights and how to enforce them.

The establishment of a Municipal Court in Rustenburg has allowed Municipal managers to separate municipal and traffic cases. Members of the Judiciary proposed that shift work must be implemented in order to operate more effectively. The Bafokeng Magistrate Court already operates shifts and has been successful.

In order for Magistrates to run courts productively, they need training. Magistrates must be in control of Courts. In some cases, they allow Attorneys to arrive late, which results in the delay of cases.

Every cluster in the district must have cluster meetings. Magistrates must take control and diarise cases for trial. Two prosecutors per court can make a difference. Magistrate Courts must each have interpreters attached to them. The court has created a database for international languages used in South Africa to ensure access to justice for all.

There is a discussion with the University of the North West for training programmes on interpretation of languages especially sign language. This is done in conjunction with the Witwatersrand and Free State Universities.

1. VISIT TO TLHABANE POLICE STATION

Tlhabane policing area comprises the following rural areas: Photsaneng, Thekwane, Madikwe, Kanana, Tlapa, Rankelenyane, Mabitse and Lekgalong.

6.1 Problems facing the Station

• Policing area is distant from the  police  station  and  this  has  an
  impact on reaction time.
• Poor infrastructure, unemployment  and  overcrowding,  because  people
  have migrated from all  provinces  and  settled  around  the  platinum
  mines.
• There has been a problem of ethnic clashes.

The main contact crimes prevalent in the area are: • murder, • rape, • attempted murder, • assaults, and • armed robberies

6.2 Establishment of CPF’s

CPF’s have been formed as well as sub-forums. Sector policing and sector managers have been appointed and introduced to the communities. Workshops with regard to the concept of sector policing have been conducted among the community members.

The mine management has supplied a mobile clinic around the informal settlement which provides health services periodically.

Problems with implementation of Sector Policing

• More members are needed for effective sector policing as  there  is  a
  critical shortage of personnel power.
• There are no vehicles allocated to each sector.
• Members of the shift on duty also help with patrols at the sectors and
  this hampers the required standard of service delivery.
• The influx of persons without documents to  employment  in  the  areas
  surrounding the greater Rustenburg also increases the rate of crime.
• Re-alignment of police  areas  to  correspond  with  local  Government
  boundaries to achieve effectiveness and efficiency.

6.3 Strategies to reduce crime

• The station has a joint operation with the specialised unit  and  Home
  Affairs around Tlhabane policing area. More patrols are  conducted  to
  identify possible persons involved in the commission of crime such  as
  housebreaking, rapes and robbery.
•  Project:  Anti-rape  Strategy,  Victim  Empowerment  Programme-   for
  Domestic violence and Itlhokomele project are underway.
• The station also makes use of local Radio on  Mondays  -  Friday’s  at
  13:30 to address the public on priority crimes.

6.4 Plans to address the problems

Most of the reservists are used to supplement the activities of members at the sectors during operations. In cases of an extreme nature, specialised units are summoned for assistances for example, the Dog Unit, ACCU, Highway patrol and other specialised units. More personnel will be deployed in future enlistments. Operations are held according to crime pattern and crime threat analysis.

Through the engagement of Tlhabane SAPS management and the Local Government, a place for the relocation of the community of informal settlements was identified and the building of RDP houses is in progress, and it is hoped that this will definitely alleviate the rate of crime in this policing area. Due to proactive steps of raiding suspects, the station manages to improve on the detection of would be criminals and reduction of court cases. Registration and utilization of informers yield positive results in terms of arrests and court cases. The geographic size of the area and the long distance between the service stations affect service delivery.

1. VISIT TO SWARTRUGGENS POLICE STATION

Swartruggens Police Station is 60 km from Rustenburg. The population of this Policing area is approximately to 54987 people. The station has a well established community Policing Forum. There is a good working relationship between South African Police Service and Marico Commando. Both security structure works jointly to fight crime in the policing area. The station is surrounded by 2 high schools and 3 primary schools. There are 7 primary schools in the area around the station precinct. The station also has to provide security to several high schools and primary schools in the surrounding area.

7.1 Cases

The station handles between 60 and 100 cases per year. There are active farm watches in the area. The staff strength of the police station stands at 35, comprising the police, detectives and administration staff.

1. 2 Crime pattern analysis

Serious and violent crimes such as aggravated robbery are rife, housebreaking in residential and business premises, stock theft and theft of motor vehicles, etc. Less occurring crimes are attempted murder, rape and assault. Crimes detected through police action: Illegal possession of firearm, drugs and driving under the influence of liquor and crimes against women and children: rape, domestic violence, indecent assault and child abuse.

7.3 Resources

Vehicles: These are available for all units, however there are no suitable vehicles for patrols and farm visits. Physical Resource: Accommodation available for all units of the station. There is a though shortage of bullet proof vests and torches. Skills: Members must be evaluated from time to time to assess skills levels and improve thereon.

1. VISIT TO NIETVERDIENT POLICE STATION

The station is situated about 60km from the town of Zeerust, and is near the border of Kopfontein, 60km from Gaborone, Botswana. The station services both local and international community visiting RSA. The station service 4 villages and farms. The following villages are serviced by the station: Supington, Lekgopung, Mmasebudule and Maroelakop and surrounding farms in Nietverdient area. There are no informal settlements in this area.

8.1 Priority Crimes

These are priority crimes in the area: • Rape • Stock theft and • Assault Crime is more rife at Supingstad and Lekgopung.

8.2 Problematic Crimes

For the past three months rape and stock theft had been problematic crimes. Stock theft is very prevalent and the stock is stolen from South Africa and taken to Botswana. There is no adequate fencing at the border gates.

8.3 Preventative measures

The station has established a Crime Prevention unit which consist of ten reservists and one functional member to conduct visible policing and Crime Prevention Operations, visiting farms and road blocks.

8.4 Problems encountered by the station

The station has a shortage of human resources. The station does not have enough offices and accommodation and thus members and reservists are travelling from as far as Zeerust. The station serves two magisterial areas, namely, Lehurutse and Zeerust. Members encounter difficulties when transporting witnesses and the accused to court. Telephone communication is a problematic, and the old infrastructure does not accommodate toll free number 10111, which makes it difficult for the community to report crime.

8.5. Crime Prevention The station has visible patrols and stop search. Farm visits and road blocks are constantly conducted. Meetings are being held with the community members to educate the community on how to reduce stock theft by:

• Visiting cattle post daily
• Branding of livestock
• Proper fencing
• Counting of livestock and
• Preventing high rate of crime  by  ensuring  that  sectors  carry  out
  patrols within the communities.

1. VISIT TO MOTSWEDI POLICE STATION

   The station is about 40km from Zeerust and is in the Marico Area. Motswedi police station is servicing up to 16 villages and, as a result, the community is complaining that complaints lodged at the Police Station take a long time to be attended to.

2. Problematic Crimes: Robbery at shops owned by Bangladesh nationals, rape, housebreaking at residential and business premises, are a major problem. Operations are conducted to address the crimes and Hotspots and these include monitoring the operations of taverns urging them to observe closing times, and visible policing. Day to day operations were also conducted and suspects were arrested for reported crimes. Suspects in rape cases are tracked down and arrested.

3. Sector policing: Motswedi is divided into 4 sectors which are not fully operational. The reason is that there is a shortage of resources, that is, human and logistical resources. Another problem is that pension payouts are conducted for two full weeks and Crime Prevention members are posted there. Also the CSC is only manned by 3 members and reservists per shift.

   Sector 4, which includes Supongstad, Lekgophung and Mmasebudule was previously policed by Motswedi, but, due to distance, the communities of the said villages complained and were consequently given to Nietverdient Police Station, being the station closest to them, thus ensuring that the community is served effectively and efficiently.

4. 3 Challenges: There is a shortage of staff. There are only 3 members per shift. If one member is on sick, vacation or family responsibility leave, there is a tremendous shortage and this also hampers effective service delivery. An increase in the number of members would improve the services.

   Community Policing Forum is not functioning well due to the fact that other villages have no substructures. One village is still struggling to bring people together due to political issues which affect the establishment of Community Policing Forums.

9.4 Community Policing Forum is very active, attending community meetings and also visiting schools to address crime issues, especially rape and substance abuse. There is also a good working relationship between Councillors, Police and the Community.

Cells are not really up to standard, the problem is the flushing system which the contractors find it difficult to get and also expensive. Area Logistics office has been informed and requested to change the whole system. All cells require renovation. The water pipes need repair and there are regular leakages underground, and these need to be given attention. Motswedi village has a problem of shortage of water which also affects the station and this was communicated to the Council with a request for water tanks.

1. VISIT TO ZEERUST CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

The delegation met with the officials from the Zeerust Correctional Centre, Judiciary and Legal Aid Board. Zeerust Correctional Centre is one of the centres that were on the top of the list for construction. The existing building is very old. The centre is faced with challenges such as keeping dangerous prisoners in one cell. The understanding of the Correctional Centre staff is that the executive and Parliament make policies and laws, and they have to implement them, but in some instances they found it very difficult and challenging to implement these policies due to enabling resources and facilities which often do not accompany the policies.

It is difficult to maintain discipline because prisoners claim they have rights in terms of the Constitution. To deal with people that are rejected by their families and society gives them a problem. In other words it is extremely difficult for a poorly equipped Correctional Officer to keep custody of a dangerous inmate.

10.1 Staff shortages

The centre is understaffed and there is a need for more nurses, psychologists and doctors. There are no mechanisms in place to solve the problem of influx of illegal immigrants.

10.2 Presentation by the Department of Justice on video conferencing Video conferencing, as a pilot project is already operating in Kwazulu- Natal and is doing well. The Court Manager made an appeal to Members to fast- track legislation pertaining to video- conferencing. Public awareness and outreach programmes are implemented to distribute information to the public. The Courts has to determine what kind of education the community needed.

10.3 Advertised Posts

Most vacancies advertised are for Data Capturers and there is a need for people with the knowledge to scan documents electronically.

1. VISIT TO ROOIGROND CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

Rooigrond prison farm was built in 1974 and is 1848 ha in size. It carries on dairy farming, orchard and vegetable gardens and beef cattle farming. During 1977 the prison was incorporated into the then self–governing territory of Bophuthatswana and named “Central Prison”. It reverted back to the Government of South Africa in 1994. The centre had to fill vacancies according to race and gender balance.

11.1 Successes

21 prisoners passed matric, one has Honours Degree and others are still busy with their junior degrees.

11.2 Escapes There have been no escapes in 2006, and the last time they had escapes was in 2005. This is a cause for satisfaction and the centre needs to keep 11.3 Accommodation

The centre has an approved accommodation for 772 prisoners but currently accommodates for 1160 inmates. For this prison there are 3 female nurses and two male nurses. HIV and AIDS is attended to at Bopilong Hospital.

The centre conducts different programmes such as formal education, social work programmes and religious care.

Prisoners in maintenance section acquire skills before they are released, with the hope that they will utilise them when they are released. The problem is that most of them are rejected by the community when they are released and they are not given the opportunity to prove themselves that they have changed.

Privilege packages for inmates rehabilitate prisoners, and have contributed a lot to discipline. These privileges need to be reviewed for even better rehabilitating results. One of the major challenges is that they sometimes have to release 2000 inmates without the correct addresses. The reason is that some of them come from informal settlements with no address in their shacks and others registered incorrect address which makes it difficult to send them home.

11.4 Staff benefits

The promotion policy is a cause for staff low morale resulting in the department to losing dedicated staff members. The Department is busy reviewing the promotion policy. Some departments received parity as early as 1994. Review of overtime is part of the problem. The department no longer pays overtime for Saturdays. It only pays for Sunday overtime but this would be phased out in 2008.

Parity and uniformity in terms of conditions of service is unattainable due to being no access to the Bargaining Chambers for Correctional Services and this is a cause for Correctional Services to lag behind when department rendering related services to improve the conditions of service of their employees.

1. VISIT TO ITSOSENG POLICE STATION

A site had been identified and allocated by the municipality to build this police station, but later been withdrawn. Due to delays in construction, the National office took a decision to withhold the funds allocated for this project.

12.1 Challenges

12.1.1 Accommodation

The station has a problem of a shortage of accommodation for awaiting trials.

12.1.2 Rampant Crime

House-breaking and vandalism is a problem for the community and is exacerbated by poor street lights and bad village infrastructure.

1. VISIT TO LICHTENBURG CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

The centre was built in 1910. It is an old and dilapidated building with a falling ceiling. The building was reported five years ago to the Department of Public Works but up to this day there has been no response. The approved capacity is 291, but currently they accommodate 402 inmates.

The Centre was experiencing a shortage of staff and as a result, one person had to monitor 5 gates per shift. The cells can only accommodate 18 people but due to overcrowding they accommodate 37 inmates sharing one shower. They had one nurse which was booked off sick for a long time. Since March 2006 they had been without a nurse.

The manager complained about the delegation of powers as the centre falls under Rooigrond. Social workers from another component only come on certain days to meet the prisoners. Regularity of their services is a cause for concern because they only visit when they are able to do so.

1. VISIT TO LICHTENBURG COURT

The court is operating in the premises of the SAPS with 15 administrative staff to render services. The challenges are a lack of office space, and Defence attorneys have to share offices when they are consulting with clients. There are two prosecutors with a heavy workload. There is one criminal court and statistics indicate that there is a need for three magistrates.

1. VISIT TO LEMANYANENG POLICE STATION

Lemanyaneng Police Station is situated in Dube section of Mananenz Village with 89 staff members, and 18 vehicles policing 12 villages. Members of the CPF are divided into three sectors and this is informed by the type of crimes, for example, like assault, housebreaking and theft.

15.1 Challenges

• There is a need for more vehicles;
• The Detective Branch is under–resourced;
• Patrolling at night is made difficult by inadequate roads  and  street
  lights;
• There is co-operation between CPF’s, Councillors and Chiefs  and  they
  are  engaged  in  establishing  sub-forums  for  decentralisation   of
  services;
• Accommodation and air-conditioning is a problem.

15.2 Project Ubuntu

The station has as one of its projects, “Ubuntu”, to improve services at the station. This tool is also used to measure individuals’ performance in each sub-component.

15.3 Recording Systems

Clients are recorded and registered when they come in. Record show that construction was prioritised for 2004/05 but nothing has been done up to now. The roads are very bad. Police are persuading the tavern owners to close at 10:00 instead of opening for 24 hours. The station holds cluster meetings once a week to review their performance. The Department of Justice, Correctional Services, South African Police Service and the farmers also meet jointly once a month. It is very rare to see people of some races attending meetings of this nature. One of the major problems is non- attendance by people representing rural areas. Cluster meetings of much value members of the community should be encouraged to attend.

1. LEGAL AID BOARD

The Legal Aid Board has a budget of four hundred and fifty million rand (R450 million) per year, which is not enough to cover court cases. They had to employ students that just finished university to defend their clients, but once they get the experience they required, they move on to greener pastures. The NPA has a program and a team to train prosecutors. One of the problem areas is lack of facilities and personnel and it is a problem to measure success. They proposed that the salaries for Lawyers should be uniform in the NPA, Justice Department and Legal Aid Board to prevent movement of Lawyers from one department to another or salary competition within the public service legal fraternity.

16.1 Capacity challenges

The Legal Aid Board is not well resourced. The institution is male dominated. Double bookings by lawyers’ causes delay finalization of cases. The Legal Aid lawyers had to undergo a test before they are taken on for legal representation. They visit police stations and Correctional Services to check if there are people needing legal assistance.

The Legal Aid Board denied the allegation that they use inexperienced staff. They employ candidates with articles and internship students on contract basis and once the contract expires they release them due to financial constraints. Their request is to have sufficient attorneys to deal with cases, have enough time to consult and research, and to have enough resources to maintain their staff.

A local Councillor requested that the Committee engages the relevant Department to help with the roads and the Department of Public Works to provide street lights.

1. VISIT TO MAFIKENG POLICE STATION

The premises are very small and the management is looking for an alternative place to move to. The Community Police Forum functions well with 15 sub-forums. The MEC and Mayor are very active on programmes on street kids. The station has more that 70 reservists and they are trying to encourage them by rewarding them and they are also fully resourced.

17.1 Success

The station came second in terms of the outreach programs that are taking place within the province. The staff members meet more often with tavern owners and taxi owners to discuss the strategy to handle crime.

17.2 Strategies to reduce crime

Strategies in place to reduce crime are: • Driving around or constant patrolling in the area, • Evaluating crime on a daily basis

17.3 Facilities for the disabled

There is a ramp built for the disabled persons.

1. VISIT TO MAFIKENG CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

The centre was closed by the ex-Minister, Mr Mzimela, due to the dilapidations of the building. It was re-opened in 2000. The centre has been declared the best in terms of cleanliness. 18.1 Success in the centre

More that 50 prisoners were awarded skills certificates. The centre has adopted 27 schools and communities and educates them on HIV/AIDS, domestic violence, rape and gangsterism.

The Department has developed a programme with Local Government structures for social interaction when the prisoners are released. They also encourage the Community to accept the inmates.

1. VISIT TO MMABATHO MAGISTRATE COURT

19.1 Challenges

Facilities

Most of the courts do not have air conditioning systems. They use old manual system to process maintenance cases. The backlog is caused by shortage of staff. Many of the Prosecutors are sharing offices due to shortage of office space. Family courts have to be established to deal with children and maintenance. There is a shortage of court rooms for civil cases. Magistrates also feel that domestic violence needs its own court.

Personnel

There is a wide gap between Court Managers and operational staff members which needs to be looked at. There is also a shortage of staff specialising on the following: Children’s Court, Family Courts and Civil Courts. Retention strategy has to be attended to. The Court structures needs to be revisited and reviewed. Most of the administrations staffs are contract workers, therefore filling of vacant posts need to be done expeditiously There is also a shortage of foreign language interpreters.

Conditions of Service

Employees are working under stressful conditions because of the shortage of staff. There is no secure parking for Judicial Officers and Prosecutors. Skills Development seems not to be high on the agenda of the department. The Small Claims Court is too small. Working hours for the Small Claims Court need to be revisited and the Presiding Officers who are practising attorneys are not receiving payments, they end up stopping their services because they are not motivated. They need assistance in this regard because in other regions, like Cape Town, the provision for these services has been made already.

Prosecutors hold daily meeting to discuss the next days work. Cluster meetings took place monthly and minutes are distributed to the Department of Public Prosecutions (DPP). The court has a good working relationship with the Police. The court is engaged in community outreach program to educate people on crime. They also urged the delegation that it will be necessary for them to be given an opportunity to add their views when the legislation making process takes place.

1. MEETING WITH STAKEHOLDERS AT THE PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

The meeting was held at the Legislature with four departments: Correctional Services, Safety and Security, Justice and the Department of Public Works.

20.1 Briefing by Provincial Commissioner Beetha

The Provincial Commissioner informed the delegation that the influx of illegal immigrants has increased their work tremendously. Personnel will be trained on restructuring within. Stock theft required more trained staff to be able to deal with it successfully. The Commissioner has been in contact with the Department of Agriculture to repair the fence between the borders of South Africa and Botswana. The Commissioner made a commitment to deliver vehicles with immediate effect. After the work study, additional police stations needed to be built in the following provinces: Limpopo, Gauteng and North West.

20.2 Briefing by the Regional Commissioner Tshivhase

There will be no immediate solution to deal with overcrowding as long as the community is still reluctant to accept the prisoners when they are released. Traditional leaders should be encouraged to assist with persuading community members to accept their ex-prisoners. The department needs to encourage the Department of Education to introduce subjects related to Correctional Services to create awareness on young children that crime does not pay.

On dilapidated buildings: The Department of Public Works is responsible for renovations but have requested that Correctional Services be given authority to do small renovations to maintain the buildings. He also proposed that South African Law Commission should introduce tribal courts to deal with small offences at that level.

20.3 Briefing by the Department of Justice

The Court Manager informed the delegation that correspondence has been sent to the Department of Public Works for almost ten years without response.

He proposed that the service delivery level of Public Works be reviewed. The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs need to intervene with regards to the issues related to the Department of Public Works.

20.4 Briefing by the Department of Public Works

The official representing the Department of Public Works acknowledged the delays in maintaining the buildings. She said some of the delays are caused by lack of communication. The Department of Public Works made a commitment to deliver services to its client departments.

1. FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

Having conducted all these discussions with the role-players and stakeholders in the criminal justice system in the Province of the North West, the Security and Constitutional Affairs Committee finds and recommends as follows:

21.1 General findings and recommendations

• Communication and co-operation is commendable, and this exercise needs
  to be made a continuous feature to promote the smooth functioning of
  the criminal justice system.

• The participation of all stakeholders in the criminal justice system
  remains a condition without which we cannot eradicate incidents of
  crime in our communities, and therefore the strengthening of community
  safety structures and public education on crime has to be enhanced.

• All departments or law enforcement agencies covered by this report are
  without exception, experiencing problems related to capacity,
  infrastructure and facilities and, generally underdevelopment. Urgent
  attention has to be given to these shortcomings to ensure efficient
  and effective functions of these critical departments in the fight
  against crime.

1. SPECIFIC FINDINGS ON SAPS COMMUNITY POLICING FORUMS

Community policing forums have not been formed in some stations and have been dysfunctional in other areas. This reduces community participation in the fight against crime. An awareness campaign and the importance and role at CPF’s and related structures have to be commenced by all police areas and stations, including traditional leader’s structures. 22.1 Courts facilities and infrastructure

The wheels of the criminal justice system rest on the availability of facilities and infrastructure, and the issues related to the functioning of emergency call number 10111 at Nietverdient, the provision of an adequate number of vehicles, attending to dilapidated buildings and provision of extra office space and accommodation and the redemarcation of policing areas, are matters that require attention. There is a need for more court rooms in some courts, a tighter security in courts, a safe parking space for staff vehicles, and the installation of air conditioners inside the court rooms.

The need for enabling facilities cries out for urgent attention to further strengthen our criminal justice system. Lichtenberg needs some construction work and this requires the Department of Justice to approach the Department of Public Works with a proposal to that effect.

The Department of Justice should, as a matter of urgency, approach the Department of Public Works with a proposal for the provisions of these facilities and infrastructural needs. Indeed, the Committee has to raise this strongly with the Departments of Justice and Public Works.

22.2 Human Resources in the South African Police Service

The hands and feet of the criminal justice system are its personnel and in this report it is clear that there are areas where the police experience shortages of staff especially in the investigating and stock theft units.

There is a pool of matriculants that are out of employment and steps should be taken to recruit and train new staff as a matter of urgency. 22.3 Staff shortage

There are staff shortages both in the administration and the judiciary and also in the areas of financial management; as a result, the work load exceeds human capacity. The Department must recruit school leavers with the necessary expertise and law graduates that are produced in abundance by our universities, taking them through on- the- job and the Justice College Training.

22.4 Stock theft

Cross-border stock theft (between Botwana) remains a problem requiring more co-operations between the two countries. There must be an intensified dialogue between our CJS cluster and its counterparts in Botswana on mutual measures to be adopted to eliminate circumstances conducive to cross-border stock theft.

1. SMALL CLAIMS AND MAINTENANCE COURTS

Small Claims Courts and Maintenance Courts are an important service for mostly poor communities and therefore it must be made certain that they function properly. There is a need to revisit working hours in these courts to improve their effectiveness and efficiency. There is also a need to improve the handling of maintenance cases in terms of farms, payouts, and to make courts more user-friendly.

1. MAGISTERIAL AREAS

Status quo ante is still maintained with regard to the demarcation of magisterial districts or areas. This often causes difficulties and inconvenience to the public.

Consideration should be given to a re-demarcation of magisterial areas to reconcile their boundaries with those of its partners in the CJS and, if possible, the local government boundaries.

1. LEGAL AID BOARD

The issue that the Board uses inexperienced lawyers undermines state efforts to ensure access to Justice. The reasons for lawyers not to be attracted to serve in the Legal Aid Programme have to be addressed. Legal Aid and its resources have to be prioritised to ensure equal justice for all.

1. CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

26.1 Staff working conditions

There is a need for a well-oiled correctional service with clear guidelines on the ranking of Correctional Officers, a review of the demilitarisation policy to enhance the safety and effectiveness of officers, increased staff, and minimization of acting positions and the introduction of incentives as part of a retention strategy.

1. CONCLUSION

In conclusion, the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs is satisfied that an urgent attention to the challenges described above would lead to the achievement of the goals of the criminal justice system. To that effect, mention must also be made of the need to ensure that the Department of Public Works continuously attend to the maintenance of the building structures of the departments’ concerned. Generally, our interaction with the three departments was successful and gave us confidence that there is room for improvement, indeed the management of cluster appears to be committed to serving our nation with distinction.

We need to mobilise communities to acknowledge this commitment to fight crime and accordingly give a hand so that we collectively address the scourge of crime.

Finally, it is expected that the three departments, Safety and Security, Justice and Constitutional Development and Correctional Services will give a progress report to the committee on the steps taken to improve the services of the cluster within six months from the date of the adoption of this report and its recommendations by the National Council of Provinces.