THURSDAY, 31 MAY 2001 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 15:28.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I have been informed by the Whips that by agreement there will no motions at today’s plenary. I am sure that is a relief to those who have not prepared any. [Laughter.]

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 16 - Housing: The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I welcome my colleague the Minister of Housing. Welcome, Minister.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Chair, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, the past seven years have taught us that there are no fixed solutions to our divergent housing needs. Our objective is not only to find innovative ways to enhance housing delivery, but also to produce a housing policy that best suits the conditions in each of our provinces. It is public knowledge that, in the first seven years of office, the ANC-led Government housed nearly five million people, with 1,129 million houses built or under construction. A better life for women has been achieved in the housing sector through the subsidy housing programme and the transformation of hostels into family dwellings which will continue to foster safer environments in which to bring up families.

The Gear strategy acknowledged that the infrastructure backlog in 1994 was at R170 billion. Since 1994 my department has spent no less than R14,6 billion, which addressed the building of roads and the installation of grid electricity and pipelines. Our contribution to the reduction of this backlog has been nothing less than a resounding success.

This success has been a result of a profound synergy between the policies and actions of Government on the one hand, and the aspirations and active participation of our people in housing on the other. Housing has proved to be one of the most prominent instruments of social transformation. We have transformed the construction industry through our procedures to ensure maximum participation of emerging contractors and women in construction. We have transformed the quality of life of our people who have benefited from our programme, including improvements in their health, safety and security, and the education of their children.

For the current financial year, 2001-02, my department has received a total of R3 225 billion to finance national and provincial housing programmes. Using our housing budget allocation formula, we have divided the total amount received between the nine provincial governments, as contained in Annexure A.

Because we are constantly monitoring our housing delivery environment, the mammoth challenges in the housing arena almost always find us prepared accordingly. That is why I mentioned, in my introduction earlier, that no issue in housing is insurmountable, subject to the availability of resources needed to address each issue at hand. It is this premise that has guided our budget allocations to the different provinces. We believe that each and every province has its unique needs that should be identified to make housing funds more relevant to the conditions of that particular province.

The release of land for housing has constantly been highlighted as the major contribution to integrated and well-located housing development. The housing sector, in providing guidelines for the reduction of the selling prices of certain state-financed serviced sites, intended to release speedily all land in the ownership of housing departments to facilitate development. This, however, is far from adequate to meet all housing requirements.

A strategy for the speedy release of well-located state land for housing could not be more urgent in order to facilitate a greater proportion than has already been achieved of integrated and well-located low-cost housing development.

In further promoting integrated development, the Government seeks an honest agreement with the private sector and trade unions to channel investment into housing. Through the Presidential Jobs Summit Housing Pilot Programme we will focus on developing housing on well-located land with access to amenities and overcoming the apartheid human settlement patterns that were based on group areas and the isolation of the majority from centres of economic activity. We will also broaden tenure choice through building 50 000 rental housing units over three years.

The integrated land development approach will shift housing delivery from being principally developer-driven to being government-led through the introduction of procurement procedures in line with the preferential procurement principles. This will be guided, mainly, by multiyear plans formulated by Government in consultation with various stakeholders and communities.

The plans will outline priorities and development principles and thereby provide the briefs to which developers will respond in their proposals. This process will facilitate discussions between Government, and particularly local government and communities in general in order to determine types and location of projects and, therefore, housing development.

Provision has been made for the variation of subsidy amounts to cater for the special needs of differently abled persons. The Department of Housing, in conjunction with the South African disability fraternity, developed guidelines in November 1998 to cater for the special needs of differently abled persons eligible for housing subsidies, which entailed an increase in the subsidy amount depending on the severity of the beneficiary’s disability.

Although rural people comprise the largest section of the population in most developing countries like ours, less attention is generally paid to rural housing in comparison to urban housing. It is often assumed that rural housing conditions are satisfactory. But the findings of a United Nations report indicated that most poor rural communities live under leaky, unstable and dangerous structures which are vulnerable to storms and floods, as recently witnessed in the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and the Northern Province.

We are already working with the private sector, nongovernmental organisations, provincial and local government structures and communities to come up with ways to limit the effects of such occurrences. We have commissioned a study through the CSIR, aimed at determining the best methods to improve and introduce sustainable and quality housing through traditional building methods. We have recommended various techniques to strengthen foundations, walls and roofs, and the use of reinforcing building material and good practices in the design and construction of housing units using traditional methods.

We will further extend, this year, the protection of the National Home Builders Registration Council and the five-year warranty to cover RDP houses across the country. In cases of poor workmanship, communities will be able to lodge complaints with the registration council, which will, in turn, force builders to deal with defects on houses in their first five years of occupation or otherwise face deregistration.

Rural poverty is one of the main causes of urban growth and results in the lack of access to land, increased population growth, poverty and lack of access to resources. The establishment of the Rural Housing Loan Fund is an unparalleled achievement that has radically changed the lives of rural dwellers. The Rural Housing Loan Fund has started a rural movement to empower rural dwellers by affording many of them the opportunity to build assets and providing the much-needed resources.

The RHLF has established a rural housing market and is the only organisation that has partners who do cash collections, whilst others prefer payroll deductions. The RHLF has made significant strides in its bid to try and understand its market by embarking upon focused and targeted consumer education.

The savings level in our country is very low. The ratio of gross saving to GDP remained at a comparatively low level of 15,5% in the second quarter of last year. Private sector saving deteriorated in the second quarter of last year, but there has been a positive contribution to the GDP by general government in relation to the national savings effort for the first time since 1991. Further progress in this area will boost gross savings even more, and add to a high investment ratio which could lead to higher rates of economic growth and development.

I want to announce that we will soon be launching our savings campaign in conjunction with our partners, community organisations and the private sector. Our national savings initiative has the following main objectives: to engender a culture of savings which is an essential condition for growth in the South African economy; to facilitate access to banking and other financial services for low-income households with specific focus on purposely structured savings and credit products; to facilitate housing development of a higher standard and quality than is currently delivered in circumstances where the subsidy is the only source of funding; and to establish institutional mechanisms and support for people to save to meet their housing needs.

According to the findings of the research recently commissioned by the National Housing Finance Corporation, it was found that there is a considerable ability to save towards housing, with as much as two thirds of prospective housing buyers saving 10% of their monthly income aimed towards their future homes. On average, the saving period is in excess of two years with an average amount of R8 700 saved.

I would like to commend the National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency for their contribution to this programme in mobilising the financial institutions. Although support from major banks has not been forthcoming, the programme has received much support from the alternative financial institutions.

Through this savings initiative, we have seen the development of over 800 houses built in Oukasie in the North West. Savings of as little as R50 per month saw the lives of the people of the North West change. Through this national savings programme we have seen 1 600 families and women taking ownership of much bigger, good-quality houses that they built themselves. This project has seen more women join the building industry as a result of the skills they access through it. This year we want to see more savings schemes develop throughout the country, which could add to our efforts to create job opportunities for poor women and the youth.

Like other developing regions, the African continent suffers the phenomenon of informal settlements, which arises out of a number of factors, including rapid urbanisation, population growth, unemployment, skewed distribution of wealth, natural resources and low income growth.

In South Africa, informal settlements were further exacerbated by the scarcity of affordable land for the development of low-cost housing and the setting up of informal settlements on undevelopable land, namely flood plains, riversides such as the Jukskei River in Alexandra, dumping grounds and dolomitic land. The result is that upgrading of some informal settlements is not always possible in situ, and necessitates the acquisition of new land and the relocation of communities.

South Africa is following global trends by relocating people from disaster- prone areas. I want to emphasise that this can never be compared to apartheid forced removals. Contrary to popular but ignorant belief, relocating is intended to remove people from dangerous areas and to provide them with better housing in safe and secure areas.

I am happy to report to this House that in a total of more than 1 million houses, close to 232 000 in 293 projects were shacks in informal settlements converted to proper homes countrywide. In response to the President’s prioritisation of the urban renewal programme, the department has led the way with the implementation of the Alexandra Urban Renewal Programme, with R3,5 million used for feasibility study and planning work. In KwaMashu in excess of R20 million has been allocated for redeployment over two years, through its human settlements redevelopment programme.

Our approach in dealing with this is an inclusive one and is highly dependent on strengthened consultation ties between the three spheres of Government, the non-governmental organisations and, most importantly, the communities affected. The main challenge is to clearly define the role of each sphere of Government in the eradication of informal settlements, and to ensure that new informal settlements are effectively prevented.

The Government cherishes a process that will assist our planning towards the eventual eradication of informal settlements by giving clear definition to the responsibilities of each sphere of Government.

The Government housing programme strives to meet the goals of economic growth, job creation and poverty alleviation for the poor. It forms part of the larger framework of the construction sector.

Government investment in housing, through the jobs created and sustained in the construction of houses and the growth of industries involved in the production of building material and related industries, also contributes directly to the gross geographic product across our country, particularly the much-needed small business development.

Housing is one of the key aspects in generating growth, employment and wealth. The Government’s low-cost housing programme supports not only the use of labour-intensive methods, but also the employment of local labour and emerging contractors.

In order to ensure a better life for workers, the Housing department will continue to monitor the activities of the home building industry to ensure the transformation of the industry through the Constitution and such laws as the Labour Relations Act, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, the Employment Equity Act and the Skills Development Act.

Despite the efforts of the Government, the poorest of South African households earn less than 10% of the total income earned by all South Africans, and the richest 10% earns more than half of that total income. With this, access to finance still remains the greatest challenge to low- cost housing development. As part of the restructuring of the financial sector, with the promulgation of The Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Act in December 2000, we are currently drafting the Community Reinvestment Bill which is aimed at increasing access to finance by poor communities.

We aim to promote and attract adequate investment for growth and development for both the established and the emerging sectors, to match ever-expanding Government expenditure on social and economic infrastructure. We need to align the investment strategies of the private sector with those of increasing fixed domestic investment, promoting social equity and reinvestment in marginalised areas. The repo rate has dropped steadily from its level of just under 13,5% since September 1999 to its present level of 11,75%. This has had a very positive impact on housing development, particularly within the higher-income groups that benefit from credit. It has also created stability in the housing market, which is to the benefit of low-income groups as confidence in property investment has been re-established.

This means that as incomes improve, many people in the R2 500 - R3 500 income group either improve on their houses or move out to better housing, making more stock available for the poor to purchase using the housing subsidy. However, the lack of available housing stock in the R60 000 - R100 000 group has impacted adversely on the potential growth of the secondary housing market for both lower-income and lower-middle-income groups.

I hereby challenge the private sector to build houses for this category of earners, particularly in the face of the most favourable interest rate climate ever seen. This climate of confidence is further confirmed by the trends in total building plans passed and buildings completed. The real value of building plans passed for dwelling houses increased by 17% from the first quarter of 1999 to the first quarter of 2000.

Housing policy has, as one of its key cornerstones, the principle of labour- intensive building methods and employment creation, and/or sustaining existing employment opportunities. Fortunately, the nature of a housing delivery project is such that it has a relatively high labour component.

Even more positive is the fact that the major part of the employment opportunities provided through housing projects is for semiskilled or unskilled labourers.

It is estimated that the Government spends approximately R3 billion annually on its housing subsidy programme, which sustains 45 000 direct employment opportunities in the building industry. Linked to this are about 43 000 indirect job opportunities in the building materials and component markets which the Government housing programme sustains.

We are enhancing, in consultation with the Department of Public Works, the empowerment of emerging contractors. Emerging contractors tend to make use of more labour-intensive methods and therefore create more jobs than the more capital-intensive larger construction companies. Their increasing involvement will therefore not only help in their own development, but also increase the job creation potential through the housing delivery process.

Our housing policy provides access to housing opportunities to the poor on a nonracial basis. It is through the special planning at local level that our own housing projects can help integrate our own communities and effectively undo apartheid planning, to the benefit of our communities and the nation-building process. In certain instances it is sections of our communities who refuse to be integrated merely because of perceptions of property devaluation. But an area such as Dainfern in northern Johannesburg, which has one of the highest property values, remains a prime area in the country and yet is located adjacent to an informal settlement.

Local governments must ensure that our housing projects integrate communities and, specifically, deracialise our towns and cities. We have made great strides towards integrating racial groups such as Briardene and Burnwood housing projects in Durban, and the housing projects in Newtown, Johannesburg. We do, however, recognise that whilst housing delivery is proceeding at a significant rate … [Time expired.]

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Madam Chair, I extend my greetings to Minister Mahanyele, MECs and my colleagues. I fully support the topic for debate before us today, because a house is the right of every citizen. A house provides comfort and security.

The department’s programme is very clear on how to achieve the objective of housing every citizen. Yes, as a matter of fact, this cannot be done overnight due to the legacy of apartheid that we inherited. I want to warn opposition parties to stop comparing our RDP houses with the matchboxes which were built by the apartheid government. There are no similarities between the two.

We are grateful to the hon the Minister and her department for the fact that they have provided more than five million people with secure tenure and safe homes. We further call on local municipalities to extend penalties to developers and contractors who build houses that are as small as a Uno car, because they discredit our Government and steal from the mouths of the hungry babies.

As a public representative from the rural area of Sterkspruit, I would be more comfortable if the department could expedite assistance to the rural areas. The Minister has already alluded to that. Because our people have lots of land, they can build their own houses, but they lack finances to put on roofing. They would not like to be moved from their areas, due to our traditions, our rituals and our cultures.

Asifuni kushiya amangcwaba ootat’ omkhulu. [We do not want to leave our grandfathers’ graves.]

An integrated development strategy is the order of the day, as clearly stated by the President in his state-of-the-nation address. We must support the people’s housing projects by setting up centres to help poor people build their own homes.

The Department of Housing must ensure that every South African has access to a form of sustainable settlement that ensures privacy. It is high time now that we monitored all the Acts that were passed by this House. Regarding its capacity-building, the department should also assist emerging contractors through a developmental programme that is visible.

Sihlalo, isidima sakhe wonke umntu luphahla phezu kwentloko yakhe. Nditsho, nkqu netshipa lithi xa libethwe lilizwe lithi,``Ndiyagoduka nokuba ikhaya liyanetha, yaye ekhaya akungenwa ngamali.’’ Umntu onomzi uba nesidima, ahlonipheke azingce.

Manditsho ukuba umzamo omhle, Mam’ uMahanyele, uwuzamile, Mphathiswa. Indlela iyenyuka, akulula. Ungafumana abanye besithi kubhetele emva, baxelise amaSirayeli xa ekhutshwa eJiphuta.

Mhlalingaphambili, kufuneka sikhuthaze umanyano kunye ne … (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, the dignity of everyone is a roof over one’s head. Even a person who abandoned his home when things are no longer good, says, ``I am going back to my home even if its roofs are leaking, for there I will not have to pay anything to be allowed in’’. A person who owns a house gains dignity and respect and becomes proud.

I must say that the hon Minister Mahanyele has accomplished her mission. It has never been an easy task. One may hear some people say that it was better before than now just as the Israelites used to say when they were led out of Egypt.

Chairperson, we should encourage unity and partnership between …]

… private sector and community-based organisations which will provide more effective forms of housing delivery. Housing development should include training in a culture of customer care and approaches to service delivery that are sensitive to issues of race, gender and disability.

The land issue becomes the critical matter here, and in most cases hinders and becomes a stumbling block in the way of housing development. Therefore, co-operation between the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Land Affairs becomes imperative.

We appreciate the Minister’s approach to implementing the Batho Pele principles and to budgeting for the contingency fund that has been allocated to provinces, to enable them to respond timeously to crises.

Mphathiswa, mawubekho umthetho onyanzela amafama ukuba abakhele izindlu ezisexabisweni abasebenzi bawo, hayi, izindlu ezingathi ziihoko zeehagu.

Ndiyaluxhasa olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali lwanamhlanje. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Minister, a law that would force farmers to build houses that are up to standard for their labourers, and not just cheap ones, should be passed.

I fully support today’s Vote.]

Ho bua ka Mme Mahanyele ke ho tshwara thipa ka bohaleng. [According to Mrs Mahanyele it is the seizing of a bull by its horns.]

Mr N M RAJU: Madam Chair, hon Minister of Housing, Ms Mthembi-Mahanyele, hon special delegates and hon permanent delegates of the NCOP, my party has no problem with Budget Vote 16 - Housing. In fact, the department must be congratulated on delivering one million housing units to South Africans who had previously been either homeless or tenants paying exorbitant rentals to greedy landlords.

Mr M V MOOSA: Chairperson, on a point of order: We would prefer this hon member to speak in French. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I believe that the hon member has already demonstrated his abilities in that regard. [Laughter.] Therefore we will allow him to continue.

Mr N M RAJU: My party acknowledges that the delivery of low-cost housing in South Africa faces two major challenges: firstly, the Government’s financial constraints, and, secondly, the fact that an alarming number of disadvantaged people are in desperate need for roofs over their heads.

We do have some suggestions to offer the department on the provision of houses. While there is still a dire need for the provision of housing, with a considerable backlog to overcome, we believe that the time has come for greater attention to be paid to the quality of the houses being built. Let us stop playing the numbers game. Quantity has its attendant flaws. Cheap and shoddy workmanship becomes the norm and the beneficiaries end up as victims.

Greater attention paid to the quality of housing units being built, the quality of materials being used, the quality of the workmanship performed and the contracting of responsible and reputable builders will result in greater pride and joy for the new house owner rather than the joy being short-lived when problems arise immediately.

Our housing landscape has been littered with too many housing units collapsing and falling apart. Fly-by-night building contractors have taken housing boards and municipal authorities for a ride. These disreputable and unscrupulous building operators often collude with equally unscrupulous officials and councillors in getting underhand contracts, thereby contributing to the climate of corruption in the tendering processes and awarding of contracts.

Surely there is an urgent need for stricter monitoring of the process of awarding contracts and conducting performance audits. I want to assure the House that I did not see Ms Majodina’s speech beforehand, nor did she see mine, but it would appear that we agree on this aspect of getting better monitoring of the process of awarding contracts. [Interjections.]

No contractor guilty of shoddy workmanship should ever be awarded another contract. I say this because there have been cases of people who - I do not want to use the word ``blacklisted’’ because it is not in my vocabulary - have been guilty of disreputable acts reapplying under other names and getting contracts. Of course they end up giving the same shoddy kind of workmanship.

Only reputable contractors, perhaps those belonging to a registered building construction institute or some such body, should be awarded contracts. Of course, it is taken for granted that the aspect of black empowerment and the employment of local workers, bricklayers, plasterers, painters and plumbers would be favourable factors when the awarding of contracts is considered.

There is another suggestion my party wishes to place before the hon the Minister. We wish to register a call for closer consultation and communication between the community and the Department of Housing, especially with regard to the quality of services. In other words, those on the waiting list, before being allocated homes, must have prior knowledge of the level and quality of what they are going to receive, rather than being presented with the fait accompli when the houses are awarded.

The attitude of ``beggars cannot be choosers’’ is totally immoral and untenable. In all dealings with the citizens for whom housing is planned, the bottom line must be courtesy and civility. A bureaucratic and officious demeanour must be frowned upon.

My party further believes that only those most deserving amongst the poor need state subsidisation from the state housing subsidy scheme. The DP accepts that the Government has an obligation and responsibility to subsidise housing for the poorer groups of disadvantaged South Africans. Rural communities, especially, must be uplifted and the provision of low- cost housing to these communities must be considered a priority. The DP recognises that housing is one of many of the social claims against the national fiscus. But housing must be considered one of the most important delivery responsibilities of good government.

We wish the Department of Housing every success in building the next 1 million homes - hopefully, not in the too distant future, but very soon. [Applause.]

Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, South Africa is at present consolidating the transition of our country to the democracy of all its spheres. One of the most significant developments is the establishment of democratic local government and the adoption of the Constitution, which places the responsibility for service provision on local government.

This is the constitutional responsibility of national and provincial governments to, firstly, help local government to recognise and define the needs of local people, to encourage local government to involve local people in planning and in the actions necessary to satisfy their needs, and also to enable local people, suitably organised, to access national programmes on known terms and conditions so as to assume increasing responsibility for these actions.

In other parts of the world, these precepts have been the basis of successful rural development. The rural development framework proposes how skills resources of councils should be strengthened through capacity- building and funding.

The major obstacles which the department has to overcome in rural areas are the landlessness and overcrowding in former homelands, and inappropriate farming methods on commercial farms, which have given rise to severe land degradation and soil erosion. The current landownership and land development patterns strongly reflect the political and economic conditions of the apartheid era. Racially based land policies were a cause of insecurity, landlessness, poverty among black people and inefficient land administration and land use.

The national housing policy aims to provide access for all South Africans to a permanent residential structure with secure tenure, potable water, and thus provide adequate protection against ailments. These include sanitary facilities, waste disposal and domestic electricity supply.

However, Government’s support to housing development tends to receive lower priority in rural areas. Rural households are often poorly organised to obtain their place in the queues for subsidies. Legally acceptable evidence of land tenure has also been a problem for applicants on communal land. This problem is in the process of being resolved.

The settlement land acquisition grant, an alternative subsidy to that of the housing subsidy of the Department of Housing, accommodates rural people wishing to acquire land for agriculture, as well as for residential purposes. The department strives to ensure that every South African, rural or urban, has access to a permanent residential structure within a sustainable human settlement that ensures privacy and that will provide adequate protection against the elements.

In the case of farmworkers living on land belonging to an employer, difficulties arise when the right to occupy is tied to employment. In these cases the granting of a subsidy for housing improvements is to be linked to guarantees by the landowner that the tenure of the applicant is secure.

The most recent survey undertaken in rural South Africa reveals a depth of poverty as severe as that in the poorer African countries to the north. It shows that women-headed households are particularly disadvantaged. As a result, three quarters of rural children are growing up in households below the poverty line.

Due to the apartheid system, South Africa’s urban areas are extremely dysfunctional and do not serve the needs of the majority of the population. In order to place urban development strategies in context, the framework examines some of the current constraints and opportunities for development. These are large and growing urban populations, the persistence of inequality and poverty, financial pressures on municipalities, a vibrant and dynamic civil society, and economic and financial potential for urban revitalisation.

South Africa, like other countries, will witness many changes during the next 20 years. A clear positive and common vision of a desired future for South Africa’s cities and towns is essential to ensure that they sustain and improve their roles as centres of economic and social development and opportunities.

Government, therefore, is committed to ensuring that its policies and programmes support the development of urban settlement that will be spatially and socioeconomically integrated and free of racial discrimination and segregation, enable people to make their employment choices to pursue their ideals, and support centres of economic and social opportunity where people will work in safety and in peace.

Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, Minister of Housing Comrade Sankie Mahanyele, special delegates present, permanent members of the House, colleagues, distinguished guests, comrades and friends, once more I stand to share my views and that of my province on the Housing Budget Vote, Vote 16.

At the outset, I would like to apologise on behalf of my MEC, who was supposed to be part of this debate, but could not because of circumstances outside his control. I have limited time at my disposal. Let me quickly focus on our seven housing programmes in my province as guided, of course, by the national housing policy. The programmes I will focus on are project- linked housing, rural housing, individual subsidies, people’s housing, developer-driven individual subsidies, the hostel redevelopment programme and the human settlement development programme.

Project-linked housing is the largest programme in my province. It entails the establishment of townships and the transfer of full title to individuals. This programme comprises 94 urban and periurban projects. Already a total of 41 357 dwellings have been constructed and more than 100 000 subsidies were approved under these programmes.

I think that members will agree with me when I say that, indeed, this is a great achievement.

Secondly, the human settlement redevelopment programme has already kicked off. Two projects to the value of R13 million have been approved in the areas of Mafikeng and Winterveldt. The MEC agreed with me when I had a discussion with him that he will make sure that he pulls up his socks and runs as fast as he can.

On the people’s housing programme, five housing support centres have been established. These centres enable local communities to create savings schemes from which dwellings are financed. They are being supported by the department to the tune of R50 million. To date, the people’s housing process has completed 768 units, which are, on average, 50m2 in size, as compared to the average project-linked size of 35m2. Seven new housing support centres, especially in rural areas, will be established in this coming financial year.

For many years our people called on us to convert hostels into family units. We are now meeting that demand. The programme on hostel redevelopment entails the conversion of seven hostels into 2 172 family units. If things go according to plan, this programme will be completed by the end of the year.

The developer-driven individual subsidies programme is primarily targeted to assist SMMEs and small developers or contractors, especially in so far as bridging finance is concerned, who are in a position to build houses of not more than 100 units at a time. In this project we have 804 units completed to date.

The target for housing delivery was, and is, the production of 1 500 units per month starting from 1 April 2000. A total of 14 274 houses were built during the past financial year, which represents a monthly average of 1 190 units. The number of units, we believe, will increase significantly during this financial year to meet the target of 1 500 units per month, as I said earlier on.

We have spent an amount of R426 000 on capacity-building. Training was conducted for both provincial and municipal officials in respect of special certificate courses development, and this was done in conjunction with the University of Potchefstroom and the national Housing department.

There are obviously many challenges that are still confronting us. Key among these, as was said earlier on by the Minister and the chairperson of the committee, is the lack of an integrated housing development plan. That is, the provision of the basic infrastructure and top structures without the concomitant social and other public facilities such as schools, clinics, business facilities and police stations is one of the problems currently experienced in housing delivery in our province. The requisite public facilities as provided for in our general plans and township establishment requirements, are not built or provided for timeously. The fact is that there is no alignment between the capital and infrastructure budgets received by the provincial infrastructure delivery departments, such as housing, education, health and public works, and the Department of Provincial and Local Government. This results in the fact that there is insufficient capital infrastructure funding available to meet the facility requirement to supplement housing delivery.

We are, of course, as a province in the process of a provincial housing strategy which will be completed by the end of October this year, whilst other departments either have developed or are developing their own sectoral strategies and plans without the guidance of an overall implementable spatial infrastructural investment strategy.

It is essential that these sectoral strategies be guided by a single provincial or national investment strategy. Obviously we will need to overlap with the local government. It is therefore necessary that the various IDPs should be brought in line with such an infrastructural investment strategy and should, at the same time, inform the strategy itself.

The fact that housing delivery, as well as other infrastructure programmes, have been implemented without a guiding provincial or national strategy, especially in so far as the spatial element of such a strategy is concerned, has contributed to the fact that housing delivery, as well as other infrastructure delivery, has not always occurred in an integrated manner.

The Minister will agree with me that we are from the same province, and I would want her to listen and possibly agree with me that, firstly, we have a backlog of about 300 000 houses in the province, and the amount of R256 735 000 received by our province for this financial year is too little to address the backlog. I would advise the Minister to consider increasing our allocation. I suspect that for us to address this problem we might need not less than R4 billion.

The whole question surrounding the release of land for housing development purposes and long delays experienced in acquiring the requisite section 28 certificates from the Department of Land Affairs, especially in respect of tribal land, and concomitant uncertainty with regard to the medium-term to long-term tenure arrangement to be adopted has, as the chairperson said earlier on, delayed the implementation of certain housing projects.

In conclusion I would want to highlight the following. Comrade Majodina, who is the chairperson, will be very happy to hear some of these things. The North West Housing Development Act of 1998 will be amended very soon to ensure compliance with the national decision to abolish the provincial housing development boards. I would like to say to Ms Majodina that in this financial year we will be establishing a rental tribunal as well as information offices at various municipalities to give effect to the Rental Housing Act of 1999.

Finally, the province, in conjunction with the national Department of Housing, will prioritise and select the successful tender during the course of this financial year for the erection of 5 000 rental housing units to the value of approximately R250 million. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I would like to remind hon members that in the House we always address one another as ``hon member’’. [Applause.]

Mr M DANGOR (Gauteng): Madam Chairperson, hon Minister, hon colleagues, friends and comrades, the apartheid past shaped the events and policies of our development landscape. These historical events subjected the majority of our people to squalor, poverty and other appalling living conditions.

The former regime subjected black people, and African people in particular, to the most horrendous conditions. Can we forget the denial of land emanating from the Land Act of 1913? Can we forget the dispossession of the Group Areas Act? These were the major influences and factors that determined the landscape inherited by the present Government.

Our mandate is clearly articulated in the manifesto of the governing party. It is guided by the RDP document and inspired by the declaration of the congress of the people. Our duty is to translate these aspirations into reality.

We have, despite major constraints, delivered phenomenal results. More than 154 000 houses have been built. Through the Mayibuye programme, more than 70 000 informal settlements have been upgraded. A total of 155 000 people have received title deeds and are now proud owners of their homes. Accommodation has improved in the present Medium-Term Expenditure Framework for 80 000 people living in hostels. Five per cent of subsidy allocations for every new project are now reserved for people who are physically challenged and the aged.

We are strengthening our ties with women in the construction industry. We are moving towards enabling NGOs to facilitate community-based organisations’ undertaking the development of their own shelter, and shifting 37,5% of our budget into this people-centred development process of enabling civil society to participate in the planning and implementation of projects.

Gramsci made a very useful analytical distinction between civil and political society in which the former is made up of voluntary or, at least, reasonable and noncoercive affiliations, like schools, communities, families, trade unions and faith communities. But we need to inculcate into these partners in development a shift away from the giveaway shelter paradigm for people who are unfortunate and who have no disposable income or are underemployed, but who are willing and can contribute to sweat equity and provide an enhanced shelter product in sustainable communities.

We are moving towards harmonising the budgets between the departments to ensure that we deliver medical, educational, sports and other facilities when we provide shelter products. Recently we engaged the newly and democratically elected local governments to create synergy between the budgets and timeframes of us in the province and local government delivery programmes.

As a prime example, we need to thank the Minister and the President for the Alexandra redevelopment programme. This presidential project is similar to the one that was undertaken earlier in the East Rand, where integrated development and timeous delivery has transformed the lives of our citizens.

Delivery can be anticipated this financial year. The overall development and environmental management framework for Alexandra is to be completed. This will form the basis for the identification of intervention precincts and the preparation of detailed precincts. We are now moving into precinct development. Several infrastructure studies are, likewise, to be completed during the year in order to assess the capacity and condition of existing engineering infrastructure in Alexandra.

These plans will establish the basis for further work in the Greater Alexandra area during the next seven years. Planning, however, will not in itself create a changed environment, and to this end steps will be taken to enhance governance capacity in order to manage densities, avoid the reoccupation of vacated land, and enforce zoning and other by-laws within the Alexandra area.

The integration of Alexandra into the surrounding economy constitutes a critical focus area. In order to reduce unemployment, enhance job creation and increase income levels within the Greater Alexandra area, a subregional economic development strategy is to be developed in consultation with various stakeholders. This will include programmes to stabilise and upgrade existing commercial and industrial areas such as the Malboro South industrial area and the Wynberg retail precinct. Steps will also be taken to introduce skills development programmes to build skills which are relevant to the surrounding economy and which can support the redevelopment process.

As an important housing landmark, the department will commence with the redevelopment of what was formerly known as the Beirut area on a precinct basis, through the construction of medium-density housing, the upgrading of the public environment, the greening of landscapes, and the provision of lighting, etc. The commemoration of the historical significance of the area and the history of Alexandra is also important and must be maintained.

In order to facilitate the de-densification of Alexandra, 2 200 additional houses are to be constructed at Alexandra Far East Bank, and additional houses will also be constructed in the River Park area. The department will, likewise, commence with the upgrading of the women’s hostel, known as the Helen Joseph hostel, in order to improve the quality of life and the security of the women in the hostel.

In order to enhance the learning environment at schools, all school sites will be cleared of illegal occupants during the year and steps will be taken to fence these sites. The construction of sporting facilities on cleared sites will be initiated during the year in order to enhance sporting and recreational activities for the children and youth of Alexandra township. The quality of education will, furthermore, be enhanced through the linking of the Alexandra schools project to the Gauteng on-line project.

From a public safety perspective, steps will be taken to ensure the ongoing building of partnerships as well as resource capacity and service delivery improvements across all sectors. This will include the rehabilitation and capacitation of police stations and the establishment of victim support centres.

We want to say to the hon the Minister that we have cleared all the people from the Jukskei River now. We are willing and able to govern and we will not be stopped.

We have a strategy that informs the shelter component of integrated human settlement. The principles we have developed and adopted in the Alexandra area, and which inform the way we are going to do things in the future, are as follows: giving priority to the needs of the poor; meaningful consultation with the affected individuals and communities; ensuring as wide a choice of housing and tenure options as is reasonably possible; economical, fiscal, social and financial affordability and sustainability; integrated development planning; transparent, accountable and equitable administration; upholding the practice of good governance; and encouraging and supporting individuals and communities in their efforts to fulfil their own housing needs by assisting them in accessing land, services and technical assistance in a way that leads to the transfer of skills to the community and its empowerment.

The objectives of the strategy are as follows: education and consumer protection; the establishment, development and maintenance of socially and economically viable communities and of safe and healthy living conditions, to ensure the elimination and prevention of slums and slum conditions; racial, social, economic and physical integration in urban and rural areas; the effective functioning of the housing market and the taking of steps to achieve equitable access to the market; taking measures to prohibit unfair discrimination on the grounds of race and gender, and other forms of unfair discrimination by all actors in the housing development process; ensuring the economic utilisation of land and services; meeting special housing needs, including, but not limited to, the needs of the physically challenged; the provision … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I call upon Kgoshi Mokoena to address the House.

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. We agreed, by consensus, in the Select Committee on Agriculture, that the title Chief'' bestowed on the hon Mokoena is not a traditional title, and should be replaced byKing’’. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Thank you, hon member, for that advice. Unfortunately, hon member, you made the fundamental error of not informing the Chairperson. [Laughter.]

Chief M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, this Government promised to house people in decent houses, and that was done. It promised to build a certain number of houses in a given period of time, and that was done. [Interjections.] It promised to give these houses to the people for free, and that was done. It promised to give people full ownership of these houses, and that was done. This hon Minister promised to come up with legislation that would guard against professional cheats or people who want to exploit these housing schemes. Hon members will remember that before we went for Easter recess, the Minister did exactly that.

Mintirho ya vulavula n’wana mhani. [Actions speak louder than words.]

As public representatives, how can we complement what the Minister and the department are doing? Let us agree, there are challenges faced by the department. Let us confront them head-on. For example, it is pleasing to note that in the Northern Province no developer is allowed to build a house that is less than 40m2 in size. No compromise. The hon MEC Maswanganyi gave that directive after what happened in some housing projects in the province. Again as public representatives, after identifying such problems, let us intervene.

Let us make it a norm that no developer will start any housing project if he or she cannot adhere to a particular standard or requirement. I want to believe that we can do that. Hon members know that the best way to bring focus into one’s life is never to place a question mark where God has put a full stop. [Laughter.] That is another challenge.

Last year I wanted to know from the hon the Minister if the time had not yet arrived for the department to build houses where people are, in their respective villages, instead of establishing these new ``smallarnyana’’ townships - another challenge. It came to our notice, or it was discovered, that in some areas young boys and girls of about 18 years have occupied these houses. They have moved out of their family homes to come and stay in these houses. We cannot accept this kind of behaviour. Let us find a way of avoiding this unbecoming behaviour. I know we will get it right. If at first the hon the Minister does not get it right, let her read her instructions again - another challenge. [Laughter.]

There is no doubt that the hon the Minister has done wonderfully well in the number of houses that the department has built. I think it is time now for the department to focus on quality instead of quantity. Let us, for a while, shelve quantity, and concentrate on quality. How about that? That would be nice.

An HON MEMBER: Hear, hear!

Chief M L MOKOENA: Surprisingly, in life there are people who are surprised when things happen. Some wonder when things happened. There are those who want to see things happen and those who get excited when things happen. There are also those who just watch things happen. All these people cannot be trusted. The only people who can be taken seriously are people who make things happen. [Interjections.] This last group has very few people. One such person is the hon the Minister of Housing. She is one of those few great leaders who never desire to lead, but prefer to serve. She is unlike those leaders who want the Lord to guide them, while they have not decided or made up their minds where they want to go.

I say well done to the hon the Minister. Modimo a retswe. [God is great.] [Applause.]

Mr S L TSENOLI (Free State): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and comrades, this is a very important discussion for us. We have come to say and confirm what hon Mokoena has just said. We undertook to work together to speed up change, and it is happening.

I would like to tell the hon the Minister that we took a decision that we were going to do away with the provincial housing board. The Free State one has ceased operation. We undertook that we would set in place a platform for a participatory process which involves various stakeholders.

We have held our second annual housing lekgotla - a very successful one. It was successful not only because it happened as we had undertaken, but also because it addressed three critical issues in the housing process. Firstly, the issue of an integrated housing delivery strategy was one of the key themes of our housing conference. It was very important for us because, having learnt in the past and having observed that it would be appropriate for us to evolve along with stakeholders an appropriate strategy that informs our work in the province, we have now taken appropriate steps to do so.

We also found it appropriate to deal with the question of women in construction at that conference. That question was given focused attention by participants there - women themselves, and others in the housing construction. The third important one was housing and environment, because we consider them to be two of the most critical crosscutting issues around the housing delivery process.

Our annual conference is a very important one for us because not only is it going to be an annual one, but we will be producing detailed reports which we will circulate to, amongst other stakeholders, hon members of this House so that they are kept abreast of the critical steps that we are taking in the provinces, specifically in the Free State.

This is also critical for us in that the accountability from the mandate that we received from the people of this country to govern, is returning to where it belongs so that when we take the political decisions about where we locate housing and how we distribute it, we are able to insist and ensure that policy is implemented as closely to how we want to see it in reality as we are able to deal with it.

What we would like to point out is that one of the challenges that we confronted was that, at a national level, we created institutions that support housing delivery. Some of these were intended to help people access credit and provide finances to people who lend money to those who want to build homes, and others were intended for lending money to the emerging contractors to allow them also to enter into housing construction because one of the biggest barriers to Africans, and blacks generally, is access to finance and credit.

We are happy to say that the challenge that we posed to these institutions, at the Gallagher conference that was convened about a year ago, was accepted quite gladly by some of those who were present there. The National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency, for example, took the challenge quite seriously. They are now operating from our own buildings in the province. To date they are providing guarantees to 116 projects in the Free State. They have completed 34 of these projects. In total they have spent R104 165 000, which is quite significant in our province in terms of the access that it is giving to emerging contractors and enabling people who previously were not able to enter this sector without guarantees to do so. We found this to be very important.

The other important thing is that, as we speak now, the National Home Builders Registration Council is not only going around raising awareness in our province, but is also, as we challenge them to do, speaking with key regional operators on the ground so that the criterion that is used in project monitoring, which is necessary to prevent bad quality housing from emerging, is actually taken on board and is practised by our own departments in collaboration with the NHBRC. In other words, the partnership that we spoke about is indeed taking place and taking shape. This intimate relationship around issues of housing will speak to the issue raised by Chief Mokoena, of ensuring quality. We undertook that we will do something about it. We have established the institution that is now working practically on the ground and people are having their homes, which had been built by people who created bad quality housing, rebuilt.

It is also appropriate to give some indication of figures in the province. To date we have built 66 847 houses as at April - these are statistics compiled by the CSIR, which is our partner around these issues in the province - and 2 620 houses are currently under construction. Four thousand four hundred and sixty-six houses - under support centres - have been completed and 306 are under construction.

Housing support centres in the province have not only been very successful, because they produce good quality homes, and also because they include, largely, women, but, most importantly, have now formed themselves into an association. They are now providing support to housing support centres where they emerge so that these new ones do not have to reinvent the wheel. Institutional capacity is being used to replicate the successful efforts across the board. We are very proud of this initiative.

The challenge that we face is that we have 60 000 saving schemes of the Homeless People’s Federation in the province, with 4 000 members. They tell one that their need is not only housing. Housing is only one of the many needs which they have and for which they use their savings. As Government, we have a great need to reinforce people’s initiatives on the ground. This is one of the reasons why we believe that we must work with them so that we reinforce their creativity so that they do not behave like wheelbarrows which cannot move on their own. They have shown the spirit of people-driven development. We need to support this.

We are also proud to say that just recently, about three or four weeks ago, 70 graduates of our national capacity-building programme were given their certificates. They come from the local authorities and also from our department. They have been trained on issues of project management, housing policy, integrated development processes and various other skills that we have found to be necessary in the housing sector.

We are also proud to say that we are collaborating quite actively with … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, section 26 of the national Constitution says that:

Every person has a right to have access to adequate housing. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve a progressive realisation of this right.

The department is commended for observing the constitutional requirement indicated above. The housing provision by the department has been enforced through the RDP since the present Government came into power.

In terms of most of Maslow’s hierachy of human needs, food and shelter - housing, in other words - rate the highest among human needs.

Biblical scripture bears testimony to this argument. Hon members should remember that Adam and Eve’s first concern when they discovered that they were naked, after having eaten the forbidden fruit, was to cover their bodies. This emphasises the importance of shelter.

If one were to undertake an exploratory investigation in the Northern Province for the purpose of determining the present basic human needs, one would undoubtedly come up with the following issues: unemployment, water, health services, etc. Perhaps housing might not be mentioned as a pressing need. But this does not suggest that there are no housing needs in the Northern Province. It could be a priority in urban areas such as Tzaneen, Louis Trichardt and Pietersburg. A total of 86% of the Northern Province’s population is located in the rural areas. One would be biased against rural people if one were to argue that a need for housing does not exist there. It does. Housing structures have been built in most rural areas of the Northern Province. Some have been occupied while others have not. Reference has already been made in this House to the fact that some of these structures have been converted into business structures.

May I share with the hon the Minister and the House the sentiments of some of the people I met on the ground in respect of the housing programme in force. They say that the Government is trying its best to address its backlog in housing, but if our cultural norms, standards and values, practices and habits could also be taken on board the process, justice would be seen to have been done.

Here they were referring to the size of the residential site which is not big enough; the crowded dwellings; lack of space for putting up kraals for cattle and goats; the fact that fowls would have to roam around their yards there; the space for putting up additional huts for family members such as grannies, sisters, elder brothers; and so on.

Last but not least, one was impressed by the approach to the replacement of structures destroyed by floods during 1998. Three-roomed structures have been built within the existing residential sites of the affected households. The houses therefore become located within and among other buildings the people personally constructed. The element of ownership is therefore entrenched.

One needs to review the modus operandi of effecting improvement to the housing provision programme because there is no alternative to experience. Otherwise the UDM is in support of the aims and objectives of this Vote.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Because you had the least number of minutes, I gave you an extra half a minute. [Laughter.]

Mr G E NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister and the hon members of the House, let me join my colleagues in highlighting and giving expression to some of the matters raised in the speech by the Minister. Now, the department in the province of the Eastern Cape has identified the following strategic priorities for housing this financial year. Firstly, we must systematically eliminate the housing backlog - and we are busy quantifying this - and encourage private bond holders to respond. The Government has a programme to assist private bond defaulters. This has become an important programme for the Government.

Secondly, we must finalise the transfer of state rented houses to occupants. This has become a very important matter in the province, especially in the areas formerly administered by the CPA, the Cape Provincial Administration, particularly in coloured areas.

Thirdly, we need to ensure that people earning a regular income pay for services rendered to them by municipalities. This is important because we, as the department of housing, cannot just fold our arms once we have delivered a house. We must ensure that we assist municipalities in this regard.

Fourthly, we must improve the quality of housing product delivered and the housing subsidy management, because these are two important things which the Minister has mentioned already. We have also resequenced the housing project protocol because we thought we should contribute to the alleviation of poverty and to developing or building the economy of the country, and, therefore, job creation and skills development, which are linked to the quality of the house produced. Another strategy of rural social development.

These are our key strategic areas of focus this financial year. We think these are achievable. The department is committed to promoting housing development in a manner that maximises job creation and, therefore, skills development and the improved quality of the product. The department will continue to seek creative solutions in this regard. It is not an easy task, but we think we can do it.

The following two creative solutions have emerged during the course of the past financial year. Firstly, there is the rapid land development programme. In terms of this programme the housing subsidy has been split into two phases. Phase one includes building serviced land stock through established housing developers. As a result of this strategy we have developed 25 000 service sites during the last financial year at a cost of R112 million.

Phase two includes following up with top structures this financial year. We have split it between two financial years through emerging contractors. In this way it is envisaged that the best of both, in terms of solid infrastructure services and the satisfactory top structure, will be achieved.

This is a public-private partnership. It is our intention, in the medium to long term, to start the managerial skills training - we have started with the first quarter of a two-day training course on managerial skills - for these people so as to ensure that they not only are able to produce a house but also can manage their own businesses and outgrow the status of being emerging contractors.

The second strategy is integrated housing development, which is a strategy that addresses most of the programme payment regimes at the same time, that is in an integrated manner instead of the rigid straight-line sequencing which has historically been followed.

This is essentially a partnership between the municipalities and the department, and it is therefore a public-public partnership. The province is piloting out this strategy during the 2001-02 financial year and the results will be realised during the next financial year. The current project is based on a people’s housing process which is more flexible than the rest.

We think, therefore, that the 25 000 serviced sites which have been created during the past financial year will be the basis and a challenge for us to build top structures. We do not know if we will be able to build 25 000 top structures, but that is what we will be aiming for, because that is what we have as serviced stock during this financial year.

Regarding special projects, in her speech the Minister also mentioned women, the youth and physically challenged persons in construction in rural communities. We have set aside 35% of the budget for these categories of persons in our province. We are going to assist here very very actively. But this does not mean that women and the youth will not feature in the 65% of the amount allocated to housing. With regard to quality control, we have three civil engineers in the department and nine technicians. I am responding to some of the correct criticisms which have been levelled at the development of housing by some hon members, just to say that we are doing something about this. We have three civil engineers in the department with nine technicians, so we have set up three teams. Each team is led by a civil engineer, with three technicians each, for a rigorous inspection regime. We think this is what is going to help us not to depend on the people out there in the field. The teams in the department will actually be doing the work.

Secondly, they will also be project managers for the housing project, from our side as the department, so that, again, we do not have to outsource the service when we have the skills in the department.

For instance, we have 25 000 sites that we have developed. Right now we have these three teams going through the province, checking the quality of those serviced sites before they are handed over formally to us. That will make sure that when we build houses a rigorous, even traditional, inspection regime will kick in. Finally, we think that the housing delivery process has contributed towards economic and social progress, and that has helped in it pursuing the challenge of establishing functional and sustainable urban and rural settlements.

Dr P J C NEL: Voorsitter, om ‘n huis te hê, is om ‘n adres te hê; ‘n plek waarheen mens teruggaan. Dis ‘n klein paleisie waar jy en jou gesin skuil teen die elemente en mekaar vertroetel en koester. Daar is ‘n kinderrympie wat begin met die woorde, huis, paleis, pondok''. Ek glo toe wyle mnr Joe Slovo in 1994 Minister van Behuising geword het, was dit sy strewe om die volgorde van hierdie rympie om te ruil napondok, huis, paleis’’, om sodoende miljoene mense uit hul krotbestaan tot ‘n menswaardige gemeenskap op te hef.

Die gejaag na getalle het egter grootliks daartoe bygedra dat mnr Slovo se droom nie ‘n werklikheid kon word nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr P J C NEL: Chairperson, to have a house is to have an address; a place that one can return to. This is a small palace where you and your family can take shelter against the elements and pamper and cherish one another. There is a children’s rhyme in Afrikaans that begins with the words, huis, paleis, pondok'' [house, palace, shack]. I believe that when the late Mr Joe Slovo became Minister of Housing in 1994 it was his ideal to change the order of this rhyme toshack, house, palace’’, in order to uplift millions of people from their slum dwellings and turn them into a community with human dignity.

However, the pursuit of numbers largely contributed to the fact that Mr Slovo’s dream could not be realised.]

We have learned with great appreciation from the hon the Minister today that approximately 1,129 million housing opportunities have been created since 1994, providing 5 million poor people with homes.

Many of them, however, were disappointed at either the size, quality or location of the houses they had received, such as, for instance, the little matchboxes at Delft. Many either left or sold their houses and went back to informal settlements and their Mkhukhus [shacks].

The question arises whether it would not have been better if the citizens were told beforehand what size and quality houses they were going to receive and what their housing rights were, so that they would have had reasonable expectations.

A recent study on housing rights funded by the Foundation for Human Rights and performed by the Built Environment Support Group, shows that South Africans’ rights of access to adequate housing, as entrenched in the Constitution, is not being properly realised. In fact, it further states that if South Africa’s housing initiatives are not improved, they will create additional health, security, educational and environmental burdens for the state.

The report further states that, and I quote from an article in the Government Digest of April 2000:

Our study found that, because of the lack of integration of budgets of related Government departments, public funds are being spent on inadequate and not adequate housing.

The South African Government’s spending on housing falls far short of what is needed. Housing costs the state about R3,7 billion annually, representing 1,8% of the national expenditure. The Government’s original intention, based on international experience, was to spend 5%.

If one looks at the amount allocated in the 2001-02 budget for housing development funding, one will notice that there is an increase of only 7,5%, which is plus-minus the same as the current inflation rate. That means, in reality, no increase. To that effect I would like to quote, again, from the same article:

The most visible problem that lack of funding produces is corner cutting in terms of materials, poor design of housing projects and poor construction resulting in the urban environment actually becoming a hazard.

Ek besef maar al te goed dat dit met die bietjie geld tot haar beskikking baie moeilik is vir die agb Minister om ‘n keuse te maak tussen kwaliteit en kwantiteit, veral as mens in ag neem dat die agterstand in behuising tans tussen 3 en 4 miljoen is. Mens kan maar net hoop dat die inwerkingstelling van die Rental Housing Act in sy doel sal slaag om verhuurbare eiendom daar te stel en te bevorder en ook toegang tot geskikte behuising te bevorder. Ek het geen twyfel in my gemoed dat die oorspronklike behuisingsubsidie van R15 000 wat as gevolg van inflasie nou ongeveer 30% van die oorspronklike waarde werd is, nou drasties aangepas sal moet word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I realise all too well that with the little money available to her it is very difficult for the hon the Minister to make a choice between quality and quantity, especially if one considers that the backlog in housing is currently between 3 and 4 million. One can only hope that the implementation of the Rental Housing Act will succeed in its goal to provide and promote rental property and also to promote access to suitable housing.

I have no doubt in my mind that the original housing subsidy of R15 000 which, due to inflation is worth approximately 30% of the original value, will now have to be adjusted drastically.]

In spite of the progress and all the good news that we heard from our hon MEC from the Free State, for which my party is very grateful, I must say that I was very surprised to read in the annual report of the Free State Department of Housing the following, regarding the status of the housing fund, and I quote:

Due to the large amount of expenditure and the slow trend in expenditure, the problem of not spending all funds still available becomes a major reality. The problem is that the Free State province will only be allowed to roll over R10,9 million of the available amount at the end of the financial year, while the remaining balance will be forfeited. This has the implication that the total amount of R150 million must still be spent before 31 March. Any expenditure less than the amount of R150 million for the period 1 February to 31 March will be forfeited.

I find this kind of erosion of money allocated … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J MASWANGANYI (Northern Province): Chairperson, Minister Mthembi- Mahanyele, members of executive council, members of the House, it is a great honour for us to present this House with a consolidated housing delivery presentation for 2001-02 that I believe has laid the basis for deliberations.

The negative impact of apartheid legislation, the Group Areas Act and the Land Act in particular, on housing development in our country, provinces and rural localities is still evident. There are however, noticeable signs to suggest that in our six years of democracy we have successfully managed to reverse the housing backlog by speedily moving towards our constitutional obligations of providing decent housing for the rural poor. Our commitment remains the restoration of human dignity for the rural poor, through the promotion and provision of rural housing to improve the quality of their lives.

It is important to note that given the rural nature of our localities, we have made a significant paradigm shift in the housing development process. More emphasis, focus and energy are now devoted to the development of rural housing, as opposed to the establishment of new townships. We believe that this approach not only minimises migration from peripheral areas to cities and towns, but also ensures that qualitative development takes place within a sustainable, integrated and rural development strategy.

The approach we have adopted to housing development will ensure the provision of other major social services, such as employment, skills transfer and the development of small businesses within our communities.

This financial year, 2001-02, we have consciously taken decisions to seriously promote women and young developers, as the Minister indicated earlier, to play a central role in the development of housing in rural areas. The historical terrorism and marginalisation of women in this country requires us to take bold steps and initiatives in ensuring women’s qualitative upliftment in our economy. We do so because of our political conviction and seeing development and the future of this country through the eyes of our young people. We therefore intend to capacitate young people and women and allocate more projects to them in this financial year, as MEC Nkwinti has indicated, particularly black women. This, we believe, is not only economically sensible and feasible, but a major requirement of fulfilling our constitutional mandate.

In line with the housing development approach I have emphasised, this year’s budget will focus specifically on the flood disaster backlog in our province, the completion of hostel upgrading, the People’s Housing Process and the rental stock in Polokwane. We are fully convinced that in this way we will meet our constitutional responsibilities and Treasury requirements and, most importantly, satisfy the needs and expectations of our local communities.

I wish to make what is, perhaps, a major announcement. We intend to complete in total 17 436 disaster housing units before the end of this financial year. Our target date for the contracts allocated during the financial year 2000-01 is June-July 2001. We intend to tighten up the remaining contracts in terms of timeframes and to strengthen monitoring and evaluation mechanisms. This will ensure the commitment of developers to contractual obligations and effective management of such contracts by our department. All allocations for this financial year should be completed before the end of this financial year.

Let me use this opportunity to indicate that in addition to financial resources that we have redirected to sort out the disaster housing backlog, we received during the financial year 2000-01 a total of R22 million from the national command centre that we utilised for this purpose. In addition to this, the national command centre has again allocated a budget amounting to R30 million to be used in addressing the remaining housing backlog for the financial year 2001-02. I commend the national command centre for the interest, commitment and sensitivity that they have shown in housing the poor.

We also commend the Minister for allocating our province R333,7 million, which will go a long way in changing the lives of our people qualitatively. To this end, the task of housing the homeless and the rural poor and improving their lives, as a way of fulfilling our constitutional obligations, becomes more complicated and difficult in the context of increasing housing demands and shrinking budgets.

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, if ever there was one single project that required intricate correlation with all infrastructures in a particular area, then that project would be housing provision. The extent to which the house is connected to other services determines the lifestyle of the inhabitant. As we have committed ourselves to bringing about a better life for all, we should strive for the ideal situation in which we provide not only shelter, but homes which will form the cornerstones of progressive communities.

To achieve this, we have to commit ourselves to communicating and co- operating with all stakeholders and formalising our working relationships by way of the IDP and social compact. It should never come as an afterthought to recall that we have committed ourselves to working closely with the people in all our efforts at creating conditions for a better life for all.

A worrisome tendency prevailed in some areas of Mpumalanga where developers and consultants seemed to assign unto themselves the role of determining the mode, the pace and indeed the design of housing development. This practice is being stopped and the communities in those areas have been urged, once again, to take charge of their own development. At the end of the day the awesome responsibility and constitutional obligation rests with ourselves to account, as we are doing right now, as to how we utilise the public resources entrusted to us.

The housing landscape in our province is shaping up fairly well, with many areas embarking on their second or third phases of housing development, while, unfortunately, communities in the former homeland areas are still lagging far behind. It is worth noting, however, that the people in these areas have shown remarkable commitment to house their families by building some stylish homes on their own initiative. I am not ashamed to state in this House, and boldly so, that such people could do wonders if subsidies came their way.

The perennial challenge posed by the influx of immigrants from Mozambique and Swaziland streaming into our province is still with us, more so now than ever before. It is not that we have asked for it or brought this situation upon ourselves as a province, but it is due to our geographical location. The increasing number of refugees at Amsterdam, Piet Retief and other areas indicates that the situation might become worse. We would therefore urge our Ministry to strongly consider a conditional grant to enable our province to address this somewhat anomalous situation.

Challenges will always be there, otherwise we would all have to go home since there would be no reason for us to be here. Another of these is the conversion of company housing into individual home ownership. Some mining companies and forestry companies in our province tend to abandon their former employees when the company closes down, leaving these villages unserviced, and some even evict the destitute residents.

Some of these companies avoid negotiations regarding the conversion of these settlements, while others are readily available to transfer these homes to the former employees. Since the agricultural and even the forestry sector in the province are both declining, we may be called upon to come to the rescue of these destitute residents. These challenges cost money. The province is presently talking to Sappi and Mondi in this regard.

The picture of Mpumalanga’s challenges will not be complete if we do not bring into the picture the plight of the inland exiles. These are the people who were evicted from farms and have now returned to their land by way of land restitution. We have scored the first victory, but we dare not fail the final hurdle by not housing these people properly. [Applause.]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members of this House, housing in South Africa is a complex problem and the indications are that it will remain so for the foreseeable future. It appears that the greater the delivery of houses, the greater the demand for houses. The problem is compounded by the fact that some home owners leave their houses with third parties in order to go and settle in the informal settlements with the aim of qualifying for the allocation of a second house.

A number of people are succeeding in this unscrupulous process. Unless the procedures are tightened, this may be regarded as a way of life.

Except in isolated cases, the RDP houses are well received by their occupants from the informal settlements. They find them much better than their present informal houses. However, the beneficiaries of RDP houses need to be made aware and understand that the Government’s aim is to provide them with a basic shelter comprising a foundation and a start-up shelter. The beneficiary himself or herself could then add on to achieve the required house or the stylish house, as the previous hon member has mentioned.

Very often our people, and some of us, are not very clear on this issue and the criticisms and complaints levelled against the department could have been obviated if the whole process had been properly clarified. I must own up to the fact that in the debate on this Vote last year I was very critical of these RDP houses in terms of size, quality and durability. But after going through the Hansard last night to check on what I had said then and what the hon the Minister’s response was, it dawned in my mind what the true state of affairs was.

In the North West, the rural areas have not progressed as much as the urban areas in terms of the provision of housing. However, in the light of what the hon the Minister has said, the indications are that they too are making appreciable progress in home ownership.

In conclusion, I wish to congratulate the hon the Minister on her informative speech and to indicate that the UCDP supports the Vote. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I call upon the hon member Gelderblom. Am I pronouncing your surname correctly?

Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Mr Chairman, that is correct. Hon Minister, it is an honour to be here this afternoon on behalf of the Western Cape. Housing is one of the most important responsibilities of Government. The provision of basic shelter to our homeless has a direct impact on other basic services such as health, safety and education. When a family is housed, it is provided with a measure of safety from violence. It has warmth and shelter, which promote good health and provide an environment conducive to learning. Therefore, when we provide housing we have a direct impact on these other basic human rights and the costs aligned to the provision of those rights.

In addition, the provision of housing also has primary and secondary multiple effects on the economy. With every house we build, we create employment opportunities for many of the unemployed within our communities. If this is so, we should be pouring more and more money into housing delivery.

However, the awful truth of the matter is that the budget allocation for housing has been decreasing every year. Could it be that the budget allocation received for housing has never been spent within any given financial year? If this is so, then I do not blame the national Minister of Finance for continuously reducing the budget. However, we should also seriously look at building the capacity of provinces to spent the funds allocated. Furthermore, we should demand that funds be allocated to provinces that have the capacity to spend them, rather than being left unspent for yet another year.

Much has been said and written about the constitutional obligations placed on this department as a result of the rulings emanating from the Irene Grootboom case. The government of the Western Cape submits entirely to the rulings of the court and the enshrined right of individuals as contained in the Constitution. It is, however, important that resources for the attainment of the progressive rights of individuals be readily available.

In this regard the national Department of Housing, which provides provinces with an annual allocation, has an important role to play. The Irene Grootboom case is not germane to the Western Cape only. I can go on record as stating that there are many incidents of people who are desperately in need of housing throughout the country who live in conditions similar to those of the participants in the Grootboom case. The responsibility, therefore, is to ensure that those in desperate need of housing in similar circumstances reach consensus with both provincial and national government.

In this regard I only believe that the national Government has failed this province dismally. One need only look at the increasing housing demand within the province and the decreasing housing allocation to the Western Cape as proof of this assertion. Unlike its counterparts, the Western Cape has consistently spent its full budget allocation for housing. It is almost criminal that provinces that underperformed are allowed to roll over unspent funds each year, while provinces that perform receive less and less in allocations with every passing year.

Critical to the success of any housing delivery plan is the knowledge of what, depending on funds, the allocation of funds will be - not just for that financial year, but in the medium term. We have it on good authority that the housing budget for the umpteenth time has not remained within the figures indicated by the national department. How can provinces effectively manage the housing delivery process if they are uncertain as to what their budgets for the following two years will be?

The housing policy has almost come full circle from when it was launched in 1994 up to now. There have been many changes and there are still more in the pipeline. However, one critical change that has been long outstanding is the household income limit of R3 500. This income limit was set in 1994 with the inception of the policy. Since then the cost of living has increased, the subsidy amount has increased, salaries have increased, but the limit of R3 500 remains in place.

An issue of great concern to the government of the Western Cape is the perception held by the national Minister of Housing that the housing provision in the Western Cape has taken place on the basis of political association. I must treat such utterances with the contempt they deserve. Instead, I challenge the national Minister to visit the office of the Minister of housing in the Western Cape. Together with the Ministry of housing in the Western Cape, we will run the rule over all the completed and current projects to establish where these projects are and whom they have been earmarked for.

The overwhelming majority of housing projects and associated housing opportunities, one will find, are in the areas presumed to be ANC strongholds. The Western Cape government prides itself on the promise that the provision of housing will not be politicised. In this regard, we will ensure that the provision of housing as a basic right will be progressively realised by all the homeless people of this province.

Finally, notwithstanding these fractious relationships with the national Government, we will always give our outmost support to the national Housing Minister.

Mr M V MOOSA: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for an hon member to mislead the House when he is delivering a speech?

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: It is unparliamentary. Hon member, carry on. You have only half a second left.

Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): I am not speaking French, Chairperson. [Interjections.]

Finally, notwithstanding these fractious relationships with the national Government, we in the Western Cape will give our utmost support to the national Housing Ministry in an effort to ensure that the homeless people of the Western Cape receive what is their due - that is, adequate shelter and the required services. [Applause.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, it is right that I first tell Mr Gelderblom, my colleague from the legislature, that it is not good to mislead the House. It is wrong. Mr Gelderblom knows very well that he and his party have made a point of importing people from all over the world to come and settle in the Western Cape so that they can cling to power. [Interjections.] That is true. They know that Pam Golding and all the other property agents are international. If we were to go to Pringle Bay now, whom would we find living there? [Interjections.] The hon member should not mislead the House.

Chairperson and Comrade Minister, I must say that many members have spoken and have said the ANC Government has delivered more than a million houses in less than 10 years. I must tell the House also that our Government says, ``Abantu kuqala’’. [People first.] It is not about the pockets and power of individuals. This is in line with the RDP’s priorities and principles of affordability and making sure that resources are redirected to where they are needed most.

This is one department that has made sure that if one empowers women, one empowers the nation - not by words, but by action. The Victoria Mxenge housing development in Philippi - I think the Minister knows about this one

• is testimony to that.

I must mention that we lost the local elections. That has been significant for us, because it has set us far back again as people living in Cape Town. The ANC-led council had set up a housing scheme called the Special Purpose Vehicle, in which, in addition to what Government gave to people, the council added R5 000 as a kind of top-up. Now, however, the DA, or ``dead alliance’’, council has reversed all that. Yes, Mr Gelderblom knows that. If we want to see what that council has done, we merely need to go to Heideveld, Hanover Park, Mitchells Plain or Guguletu, where we will see houses built by the Cape Town City Council, not the Unicity. One can see that those are quality houses. They were built to help those who did not have money.

The Minister has just said they are going to launch a scheme that encourages people to save. I must tell the Minister now that the Western Cape will not follow that, because they have already reversed all that the council has done. They do not want other people to come and live here. Only a few rich people must live in this province. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

Mhlalingaphambili, ndiseza kuhlala apha eKapa ukuze ndiphendule loo mbuzo ngoba ndizalelwe apha, yaye ingcwaba lam liza kuba lapha, hayi kwenye indawo.

Iya kubaluleka into yokuba uMphathiswa aqinisekise ukuba abangavumiyo barhuqwa ngeempumlo, yaye basebenza njengoko kufanelekile.

Ukuba umntu ujonga uhlobo ezilulo izinto apha eKapa, ahambe ngale ndlela ilungu elihloniphekileyo uNkosikazi Versveld agoduka ngayo, angayibona into yokuba uza kulala asale apha eKapa, ngoba, kweli cala leMilnerton ukunyuka, umhlaba awulungiselelwanga zindlu ziphantsi. Lonke eliya cala lelithengiswayo. Imihlaba ithengiselwa abantu abaphucukileyo abaneemali, yaye mandiwaxelele amalungu ahloniphekileyo ukuba bayayishiya iGauteng yabo baze kuhlala apha eKapa.

Mhlalingaphambili, siyavuma ukuba uRhulumente akanazo iimali ezininzi zokuba akhe izindlu ngokokuthanda nokufuna kwabantu. Siyavumelana nento yokuba abantu mababuzwe ukuba bafuna kwenziwe njani na. Kambe ke akukho nto ibaluleke njengento yokuba abantu ngoku, ngabemi, ngabanini-mizi, ngaphezulu, ubani unomhlaba ongowakhe ophuculiweyo.

Apha eKapa, phantsi kolwakhiwo lwezindlu, ukuba ubani uza kuthenga elokishini indlu engathi inkulu, ibuphucuka, bekusakusetyenziswa inkqubo ebisenza ukuba ubani angakwazi ukuba nendlu eyeyakhe - afumane igobhogobho, umhlaba ingenguwo owakhe. Isandula ukutshintsha apha kuthi eKapa loo nto.

Abantu mabayibulele i-ANC ngezinto ezenzileyo ebomini babo. I-ANC ibutshintshile ubomi babantu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, I am still going to stay in Cape Town to answer that question, because I was born here and I will be buried here and not anywhere else. It is important for the hon the Minister to ensure that those that do not agree with the process are taken by the scruff of the neck to ensure that they do the work as they are required to do.

If one could look at how things are in Cape Town, and take the route that the hon Mrs Versfeld takes when she goes home, one would notice that the land from Milnerton up is not meant for low-cost houses. The prices of all the properties in that area are market related. Properties are sold to people that have money. I must add, hon members, that people leave Johannesburg to come and live here in Cape Town.

Chairperson, we agree that the Government does not have unlimited funds to build houses that meet the needs and wishes of the people. We agree with the idea that people should be asked about how they would like things to be done. However, the fact that people now are full-fledged citizens, that some are home owners and that others own land that has been developed, should be acknowledged.

Here in Cape Town, in terms of the housing regulations, when one wanted to buy a bigger and decent house in the township, one would not be able to assume full ownership of the property, because only the house belonged to one and not the land on which it was built. That system has just recently been abolished in Cape Town.

People should thank the ANC for what it has done to better their lives. The ANC has changed people’s lives.]

Kwakhona, ngokwakuthi isenokuba nguvezinyawo indlu leyo kodwa into ebalulekileyo yeyokuba umntu umphiwe uvezinyawo. I-NNP ayizange isiphe negobhogobho lematshisi. [Laphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Furthermore, the house may be a matchbox, as we call them, but what is important is the fact that it was given to the people for free. The NNP never provided us even with matchbox houses. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mr K PANDAY (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister of Housing and all hon members present, I bring greetings from the Cinderella province of KwaZulu-Natal, undoubtedly the number one province in South Africa. The hon the Minister of Housing, in her budget speech, speaks of the 1,129 million houses built over the past seven years. That is commendable, and the immediate reaction is one of praise, but an analysis of the delivery of houses, as against the growth of population, will show that the percentage of those who did not have houses in 1994 was virtually no different from the present times. This does not reflect on either the hon the Minister or her department. Historical problems, compounded by the lack of financial resources, amongst other factors, have contributed to the poor delivery.

The present Government has to come up with unconventional methods of addressing the housing shortage in South Africa. The hon the Minister also referred to the eradication of informal settlements on page 6 of her written speech.

I commend the hon the Minister for her commitment, and we in KwaZulu-Natal are working in this direction. I have a plan which I hope will encourage other hon members to employ their minds to fast-track housing. I am sure that the hon the Minister is looking for innovative ideas.

My contribution is this. Let us take all available land in South Africa, and divide it into sections of about 150m2 to 200m2. Let us give those free to every homeless family, and supply them with free building materials up to a cost of about R5 000 to R8 000. The land itself will cost about R10 000 fully serviced.

One has to look at this against the background of the first-time home owners’ subsidy, which is more than R15 000, which will cover the cost of the free land and the materials. With the land and the materials, self-help schemes could be implemented. The poor people who are living in shacks which are about 10m2 in area will bless the legislators of the day. This should be compared with the national norms and standards, which stipulate that houses should not be smaller than 30m2.

Incidentally, Government has embarked on a bold step, unheard of before, to provide free water and electricity, although in limited quantities. Therein lies my scheme of free land and materials.

Although our democratic Government, especially the Department of Land Affairs, has made major strides as far as land redistribution is concerned, the fact of the matter is that the ravages of the apartheid Land Acts still haunt us, even today. Sad, but true, the minority owns the majority of the land. My earlier suggestion of giving every homeless family free land cannot be done until the whole issue of land redistribution is addressed urgently. Hence I call for a national land indaba at which all role-players must participate in resolving the land question. We need to act now. Words mean nothing unless translated into action. If not addressed urgently, the problem could become a full-blown crisis. We do not want to see the Zimbabwean approach coming to South Africa.

Recently at Mangete, on the north coast of KwaZulu-Natal, farms have been set alight, and this act was strongly condemned by our premier, the hon Mr L P H M Mtshali, yesterday at our sitting in the KwaZulu-Natal legislature.

Allow me, in conclusion, to congratulate the hon the Minister on her presentation of the budget speech and also to thank her for the work that she is doing. I am sure that people are very proud of her and the department. [Applause.]

Ms I L GCABASHE: Chairperson, it gives me great pleasure to participate in the debate on the activities and plans of the Department of Housing for this financial year as presented to us by hon Minister Mthembi-Mahanyele.

Let me say up front that this department has been able to accommodate activities of provinces such as ours by providing and allocating funds that assist our programmes and enable us to achieve the goals we set for ourselves, which include national housing priorities.

The achievements of the Department of Housing have received considerable acknowledgement by our province and the end-users, who are communities that have benefited from the state housing subsidy. Funds that are allocated to provinces, and the R6 million allocated to our province in particular, will contribute to the improvement of the social and economic conditions of our people who live in slums, informal settlements, townships and rural areas.

I am confident that the allocation for our province will further enable the provincial department of housing to fast-track housing delivery by ensuring that affordable housing opportunities are delivered to the poorer communities and also to focus on the reduction of poverty as well as on improving the quality of life by empowering emerging contractors.

With the additional allocation of R1,1 million for capacity- building and the human resettlement programme, as well as the remaining funds of R17,2 million for the KwaMashu Unit L resettlement programme, there is no doubt that the department of housing is on the right track. Because KwaMashu is my home township, I understand very well the conditions in which the community of L Section have lived for 41 years. Two-bedroomed houses with one tap, one shower and one toilet had to be shared by two families. But this nightmare will soon be over, and some people in this House are guilty of that. [Interjections.]

Our priorities of accelerating the removal of slums and informal settlements, as was demonstrated by the completion of 83 projects already, extending rural housing development, concentrating on hostel upgrading and moving into rental housing stock are some of the priorities that we are set to achieve in this financial year.

We believe that housing delivery is not only four walls and a roof, but must include location choices, security of tenure and, more importantly, building communities. This means that housing delivery must go hand in hand with the provision of other services, such as health and education facilities and transport services, in an integrated approach to economic growth and development in our province.

I promise the hon the Minister that she will receive value for the money that she has allocated to the province of KwaZulu-Natal. [Applause.]

Ms J L KGOALI: Chairperson, I just wanted to respond to my colleague from the Western Cape. [Interjections.] If the Western Cape cannot spend its budget, we want to invite them kindly to come to Gauteng. If the Western Cape builds houses according to the colour of the people, they must come to Gauteng and we will show them how to do it. This is what we can offer as Gauteng to assist them to ensure that housing is for all, but not for other people.

Modulasetulo, Letona le kgabane, Matona a rona a tswang diprofensing ka ho fapana ha tsona, le barongwa ba rona ba leng teng ka hara Ntlo kajeno, ke thabo ho nna ho nka karolo diphehisanong tsa Ditekanyetso tsa Lefapha la Matlo. Mme ya bohlale ke ya tsitlallelang tsa bohlokwa ba bana ba hae le setjhaba ka kakaretso. E nngwe ya tsena, tse bontshang ka mokgwa oo ho leng bohlokwa ka teng, ke bohato bo ileng ba nkwa ke Letona, ba ho bontsha hore bophelo ba motho ke ntho e bohlokwa, tshireletso ke ntho e bohlokwa, mme le mofuthu ke ntho e bohlokwa.

Tsena tsohle di entse hore Lefapha, hara mathata ao le ileng la tsamaya le kopana le oona, le kgone, qetellong, hore ebe le behile marulelo hodima dihlooho tsa batho, mofuthu le tshireletso. (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, hon Minister, our MECs from different provinces and our delegates in the House today, it is a pleasure for me to take part in the Housing Budget Vote.

A wise mother is a mother who sticks to matters of importance for her children and for her nation in general. One of these, which shows just how important it is, is the step taken by the Minister to show that a person’s life is important, security is important and warmth is important.

All these made it possible for the department, despite the problems that it came across, to eventually manage to put roofs over people’s heads, to give warmth and security.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, on a point of order: There is no interpretation service. We cannot understand what she is saying and we really want to. [Interjections.] That hon member can, but I cannot. It is my constitutional right to understand. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! No dialogue, please. The point of order is acknowledged. Could you just … [Interjections.]

Ms J L KGOALI: Ke na le bonnete ba hore Mong Van Niekerk o tla … [I am sure that Mr Van Niekerk will …]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, whilst I understand that all 11 languages are official, can we just accommodate one another for a minute. [Interjections.] I am making a ruling. [Interjections.]

Ms J L KGOALI: Ke ne ke rata ho bontsha hore … [I just wanted to show that …] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, we have a procedure whereby notice is given of the language that a person is going to use so that an interpretation service can be provided. Hence, I am saying … [Interjections.] I am making a ruling from the Chair, so would you please … [Interjections.]

Mof J L KGOALI: Modulasetulo, ke maswabi hobane ka mokgwa oo ke ileng ka leka ho bokeletsa dipuo tsa ka ka teng, ke itse ke tla bua ka leleme la Sesotho, mme ha eba ha ho na mokgwa wa ho fetolela ka hara Ntlo ka mona, ke maswabi hore nkeke ka kgona hore ke bue ka leleme la sejatlhapi. (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)

[Ms J L KGOALI: Chairperson, I am sorry because from the way I gathered my facts, I thought I would speak Sesotho. If there is no way of getting interpretation in this House, then I am sorry because I will not be able to speak in the English or Afrikaans language.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! What is your point of order now, hon member?

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, on a point of order: I respect your ruling, but I want you not to insist on it, because my colleague here is prepared to translate for me while we do not have the interpretation service. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, please, hon members! We have visitors and future parliamentarians in the House. It is unfortunate that on their first day the young people here will associate our Parliament with the parliament of England. Order, please, hon members!

You may carry on, hon member.

Mof J L KGOALI: Mohlomong le bana ba rona ba tlameha hore ba tsebe hore ke mona moo re lwanang ntwa ya bophelo boo re bo batlang fatsheng la borona. Ke ntho eo ba tlamehileng hore ba e tsebe.

Ke ne ke sa ntsane ke rata ho bontsha hape, ke tswele pele, hore tsohle tseo Lefapha la Matlo le di entseng ke tseo mokgatlo wa rona wa ANC o ileng wa di lora, wa di tsitlallela, ho fihlela re di fumana kajeno.

Ke rata bo bontsha hape hore ka kgwedi ya Phuptjane selemong sa 1999, Letona ha mmoho le Lefapha la hae, ba ile ba etsa moralo oo e leng wa Lefapha, wa dilemo tse hlano, hore ho be le moralo o tla laelang mmuso o bohareng, mabatowa ha mmoho le mebuso ya selehae. Le ile la itlama hore le tlameha ho ba le matlo a hiriswang, e leng rental stock'', le hore setjhaba se kgothalletswe hore se boloke, e lengsaving schemes’’.

Nka ya lolololo, ha nka ka qoholla tsohle tseo Lefapha le ileng la ikemisetsa tsona. Ke batla hore tsena tsohle e ne e le maikemisetso a Lefapha, hore ebe kajeno ba fihleletse lenane la matlo a 1,29 million, ao bana ba borona ba neng ba keke ba a fumana mmusong wane wa maburu. Re qetile dilemo tse 40 tseo ka tsona batho ba bo rona ba neng ba lefa rente, ho fihlela Mmuso o eteletsweng pele ke ANC o fihla o nka matlo ao, o a fa setjhaba, sesolo.

Re rata ho re ho Letona la rona, comrade Mthembi-Mahanyele, mmarona, o sebeditse, re a o thoholetsa. Mmangwana o tshwara thipa ka bohaleng. (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)

[Ms J L KGOALI: Perhaps our children should also know that this is where we fight for the kind of lives we want to live in our country. It is something that they have to know.

I still wanted to continue and point out that everything that the Housing Department has done, is what our ANC party has dreamt of and stuck to, till we got them today.

I would also like to point out that in June 1999, the Minister and her Department started a five year plan for the Department, which would give orders to the national Government, regions as well as local governments. They were determined that they would have rented stock, and the community would be encouraged to get involved in saving schemes.

I would go on endlessly if I should mention everything that the Department was determined to do. I would like to say that all those were the Department’s intention and that is why, today, they have reached a point of 1,29 million houses, which our people would never have had in the boers’ government. We spent 40 years, during which our people were paying for rent, until the ANC-led Government took the houses and gave them to the people for free.

We would like to say to our Minister, comrade Mthembi-Mahanyele: our mother, you have worked well and we applaud you. A mother holds the sharp end of a knife.]

I just want to thank the hon the President of this country, Comrade Thabo Mbeki, for identifying Alexandra as one of his pilot projects. I want to invite our comrades, especially those from the Western Cape, to come to the launch by the President on 9 June at Alexandra stadium. They must come to see what people do for people.[Interjections.] Everybody else is invited, but I specifically extend our invitation to the province of the Western Cape. In addition to that …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time is up. [Interjections.]

Ms J L KGOALI: It is just unfortunate, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, thank you to the members who took part in the debate. I will not attempt to respond to everybody. We still have another debate coming. I will try to be very brief in my responses.

I will just identify the crucial issues that have been raised, one of which is that there has been a continual complaint around the size of houses we build. I just like to remind members that the issue of size relates very much to the issue of the amount of subsidy we have. It relates a lot to the cost of land, and to services that are provided by those who help us to deliver. I also want to make the House aware of the fact that the people who have taken the option to build on their own have come up with bigger- sized houses. That is the difference and that is why we have provided those options within our housing policy.

I would also like to say that we are currently looking at the report that emerged out of the conference that Mr Tsenoli was talking about. We did have a big indaba a year ago to look at the gaps that have been identified in the policy. We are currently working on making sure that we put detail into the proposals that were made by the people who were at the conference, because we like to start talking about an issue when we have really given very serious thought to it.

Mr Raju raised the issue of the department considering ensuring that beneficiaries are informed of what they should expect. Indeed, we do do that, I would like to say to Mr Raju. There is an agreement between Government and the developers that one of the critical issues that have to be dealt with before construction ensues is that the communities or the beneficiaries be given the opportunity through what is called the social compact - an agreement package between the developer and the communities - to agree on the kind of house that is going to be built.

Secondly, before any construction takes place, there have to be show houses, sample houses, so that people have an idea of what the subsidy can provide. Usually one finds two or three variations within the subsidy bracket. Therefore, we do do that.

However, members here have related problems of developers who really come on board but do not give us value for money. We are addressing that issue through our Acts in housing that are going to make sure that the instrument that monitors that kind of behaviour is given the power to enforce and punish those who do not adhere to the law.

The registration council, therefore, receives reports from the public around issues of houses that have defects - the structural problems. They take up those issues and call back the developer or the contractor to correct the defaults, and if the developer or contractor does not respond, he or she is deregistered. This is the kind of penalty that we are meting out to those who do not follow the rules, and also in order to make sure that we are also aware of what is happening on the ground.

About four years ago, Minmec took the decision that each province should put together what we call provincial housing teams. The tasks of those teams were to make sure that as soon as a developer received the contract, he or she was tracked and monitored to see what he or she was delivering on the ground - this so that we do get value for money. One of the issues, also, that has been raised is the issue of making sure that we monitor the overall performance, and we do do that.

I did, at some stage, talk to this House about our data system called Nomvula. We call it Nomvula. The system alerts us to blockages wherever they are. It links up with the provinces to make sure that when we have allocated the money, identified the project, started counting the numbers and determined how many units the project is going to give us, we are able to track that. This also applies to when the provinces come back with the receipts to get their tranche payments.

So we do have a system which helps us to monitor performance on the ground, but it does not just do that in terms of identifying the number of units that are being built, it also assists us to look at and monitor the cash flow between ourselves and the provinces.

This also helps us to produce a map that indicates where our policy is going, so that we do not end up concentrating on one area and ignoring another, to make sure that the urban-rural balance is maintained. Hon members can rest assured that we have that kind of monitoring system, but that does not rule out the possibility of fraudulent practices by beneficiaries, sometimes by developers and contractors, and by the so- called responsible officials, like conveyancers and engineers who are also involved in housing construction.

After we identified those problems, we did make sure that our systems helped us to close those gaps. For example, we used to provide developers with cash, but now we provide them with paper, because there was some problem with regard to their accessing our money, generating interest and not handing it over to us. We also do try and look for the systems to help us to monitor it.

But something that the department is unable to do, something that needs our moral responsibility as politicians, is to monitor the behaviour of beneficiaries in communities and corruption by people within our communities who move from their qualified bonded house and access RDP houses. They then move out of the RDP house and move into a shack, so that they are queuing up continuously to take away from the poor. That is the kind of problem we can only solve when the public alerts us to that kind of mismanagement of our resources.

Where we have been given the information, we have been able to make arrests. An example is in KwaZulu-Natal, where lawyers would go to bus stops, duplicate ID numbers of members of the public and go and apply for subsidies. We caught them because we were alerted to it.

The public also came back to inform us about the problem of the sale of RDP houses. We were able to make arrests in certain situations but we were also able to amend our Housing Act so that we introduced the pre-emptive clause which we discussed in this House and the National Assembly.

We do have that obligation as members of the public to make sure that we monitor the behaviour of beneficiaries on the ground.

We also have a system according to which we just announced, together with the CSIR, the red book that clearly stipulates the norms and standards that are required for the construction of our units. That is a requirement on paper. It will need physical monitoring to make sure that people do adhere, so that we reduce and lessen the cases of houses that have defects as has been mentioned in this debate.

We do hope that we are going to be active as parliamentarians to make sure that wherever we identify these problems, we solve them.

Another issue that has been raised relates to a possible denial, sidelining or marginalisation of the rural areas. I want to assure members that within our housing policy and through Minmec, we have enhanced the White Paper by making sure that we do not ignore our population in the rural areas. Even before we took the decision on the rural subsidy, we did let our provinces allow members to access the normal subsidy. As soon as our investigation and study were completed, we announced the rural subsidy in the rural areas. To support our rural population and to enable them to access credit and create a new asset base we came up with the Rural Housing Loan Fund, so that they also, like the urban population, are able to borrow and improve upon their stock, and that is working very well.

We are also going to make sure that through the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy, as announced by the President in February of this year, we enhance whatever we have done in the rural areas.

I would like to assure members that if they look very closely at the strategy that has been announced, we are going to relate to some of the issues that have been identified by members. They said that, despite the success that we have achieved and the milestones that have been reached, we have not been able to integrate our efforts as Government. Yes, I agree it is an oversight, but besides, we also had to address urgent emergency conditions, to reduce the backlog and to make sure that we make a start and lay the foundation.

We have laid the foundation through the delivery of 1,129 million units and provided shelter to 5 million people. However, it is time now that Government worked within the cluster grouping, and, at national level, we have attempted to do that. It is going very well. We are going to be exercising and testing our methods when we move into the areas identified for urban renewal and rural development. Alex is one of those test cases, where the different departments, for example housing, transport, land and agriculture, provincial and local government, water affairs, health, and education, are, as a collective, going to move into Alex and see how we can make an impact and utilise the resources that we have. Added to that, we are going to try and make sure that the distribution of the R6 billion for infrastructure, as announced by the Minister of Finance, is utilised to the maximum.

In whatever we do the Government is attempting by all means to make sure that whatever investment is put into the communities will also impact on job creation, and that is our objective as Government.

We are also looking at the possibility of making sure that, especially for the rural areas, we do begin to create economic focal points, growth points where the rural communities can begin to talk about future development and the creation of markets in the neighbouring countries and also exchanging goods between the provinces.

I would also like to say that the issue of the Housing budget is an issue that is currently being tabled with the Department of Finance through state expenditure. We are going to have a review and look at what is happening in the environment, the cost of building material, and all other issues that impact on our subsidy, including inflation, and then discuss possibilities of how we can support Government in making sure that we do provide good standard housing, but also get an opportunity to improve upon our quality.

I am also happy to say to Mr Raju that in May 1999, I did make a statement to the effect that in this term of office our focus and concentration was going to be on improving the quality of our stock. We have made our political statement. We have delivered beyond the 1 million units.

But it is now time to look at the broader issues of housing and integrated development, issues of planning, issues as inspired by the Eastern Cape, and issues of how our subsidies are being utilised on the ground.

After we have produced the goods for our consumer on the ground in the form of housing, what amount of profit gets to be distributed? But we also have to look at the possibilities and the realities from province to province.

I would also like to address the issue of the budget in general, and, once more, through this House, request the Western Cape to move away from the secluded kind of marginalised mind which wants to think all the time that money must go to the Western Cape and that there are provinces that are not performing well. I think it is high time that we depoliticised our political ambitions. As for those provinces that might be seen not to be exhausting their budgets, I am convinced, standing here, that that is not being done intentionally.

One of the key problems that we have in the provinces is the lack of capacity. Why do we have such a lack in some provinces? It is a historical factor and we cannot deny the fact that there are provinces which were better developed, such as Gauteng, which has attracted most of the brains, and most of the skills, whereas some of the so-called rurally dominated provinces have been left without skills.

I think we are concerned and responsible citizens in this country and we have to begin to deal with our problems in a different manner, so that we have an environment and atmosphere that will help us as we go on deracialising society and developing our people.

At the same time, we should make sure that, in whatever we do, we also do transfer skills, instead of patting ourselves on the back. This should be even more so, especially if whatever good we have has come through the wrongs of institutionalised apartheid. Let us move out of that laager.

Secondly, I would like to say to the Western Cape: When I raise issues that are wrong about the approach of the Western Cape in this House, I raise them in a positive spirit, hoping that the Western Cape will reconsider its positions. It is a fact that the ANC-dominated municipalities are being marginalised. There are municipalities that were actually given subsidies and, after some time, those subsidies were withdrawn. Interestingly, that happened after the local government elections. How am I not to believe it when I am told that those municipalities are being marginalised because they are ANC-dominated? Make me not believe that by acting correctly. It is a plea from the Minister of Housing. [Interjections.]

Finally, I would like to say that we do accept the issues that were raised by colleagues in the House. My duty is not to respond to all of them. We need to give a lot of thought to them, but also to say that we need to make our communities aware of the fact that the houses that are being built are intended to address the plight of the poor. If we are to cover the backlog of 2 million to 3 million units, there is no way in which we can afford a subsidy of about R30 000 per household. If we did that it would take us more than 30 or 40 years to deal just with the backlog, even before we dealt with the annual accumulation of new households that are being created. My plea is that we should look at other instruments, methods and approaches that are going to assist us to add value to our subsidy.

One of those is that we encourage our communities to save. Those communities that have responded to the call have saved, and have accessed their subsidies. Their houses are big and they are going to continue to expand those houses, as soon as their economic and financial situations change.

Bietjies-bietjies maak meer. [Many a pickle makes a mickle.]

We have inherited a backlog and we have inherited a situation that will need many, many years to solve. I am not making an excuse for that size of house. I am saying that I am dealing with reality. Let us all deal with reality.

I think it is time now for us to give the opportunity to the next debate. My colleague next to me should be given the floor. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                    INTERNATIONAL CHILDREN'S DAY

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, I see Thoko from the Office of the Rights of the Child hiding there to try and look like a child. Welcome to all of the children who are here. Hopefully, some of them will find a way to this House when they are older. When they reach the age of 18 they will be able to stand for election.

It is a great pleasure for me to be with the House on the eve of International Children’s Day. It is a day of celebration and dedication. It is the appropriate time to discuss with the House the achievements we have made and the challenges we face in creating a happy and healthy environment for all our children.

A mere decade ago members of the ANC in exile, child rights workers in the country and the international community, in particular Unicef, gathered in Harare to try to formulate a meaningful response to the worsening conditions faced by our children and women in South Africa, who had suffered the brutalities of apartheid. In the late seventies and eighties, in particular, our children were targets of that wretched regime.

From the 1990 gathering which resulted in an organised response to alleviate the plight of children to today in 2001 much has happened in the lives of our children. Tomorrow we will be launching the report on the state of the nation’s children. I hope that all members will attend. It is a milestone that shows us concretely where we are in eradicating poverty and improving the lives of children. I encourage all members to read that report closely. It examines all areas that impact on children: education, health, HIV/Aids, etc. Although we often think of national departments and national policies, when we think of those issues, this report shows us how our transformation is playing out throughout the different regions and provinces of the nation.

It may sound a bit like a report card with the bad provinces duly punished, but, believe me, it is not meant to grade the provinces in that matter. We can and should look at it as a progress card for all of us in Government, a way for us to monitor where we are, how many schools have been built, how many children have access to running water, how many children are infected or affected by HIV/Aids. Members will all receive a copy of the report tomorrow and we can continue to engage with the issues that it raises. I hope it will motivate each and every one of us to continue to fight the battle against poverty and for the rights of children.

On 16 June 1995 the South African Government ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Our new democracy has placed great stress on children, with section 28 of the Constitution highlighting their rights. Ratifying the CRC further solidly defined our commitment. With the ratifying of the CRC, former President Nelson Mandela launched the national programme of action for children, the NPA, as a mechanism to encourage co- ordination and co-operation among Government departments, NGOs and civil society and as a body that could monitor the rights of children.

In 1999 the secretariat of the NPA, the Office of the Rights of the Child, became housed in the Presidency. There is a direct link between the NPA and the NCOP and to each province. With the creation of the NPA came the formation of PPAs, or provincial programmes of action. It is particularly pleasing to tell the House that each province has a PPA. Some are more established than others and contribute to the national process. We have seen some very good and very dedicated work coming from the provinces. This year, through the PPAs, advocacy workshops have run throughout the provinces and children were informed about their rights.

Today and tomorrow in many provinces, provincial legislatures are working with their PPAs to highlight children’s issues. After a few years of working through the PPA structure, we feel that we face some challenges which need to be addressed by all of us. The PPA is an intersectoral committee. Its members are Government departments which deal with children’s issues, NGO representatives and other children’s organisations. In most provinces co-ordination of the PPA comes from a line-function department. One has, for instance, a member of the Department of Social Development co-ordinating the PPA. At the national level it was decided to locate it in the Presidency due to the crosscutting nature of the work.

We are faced, nationally and provincially, with the challenges of monitoring. There is a lack of monitoring of children’s rights and issues at provincial level. Connected to that is the lack of reporting once an area or issue has been looked at. As Government we are responsible, first and foremost, to our citizens, but as a country we are also obliged to report internationally on our situation.

Last year we were in Geneva reporting to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, and at such forums one must go with accurate and current information. As the PPA is developed and begins flourishing, it is our hope that soon there will be the blossoming of local plans of action for children, or LPAs. We have seen interest in mobilisation in some municipalities and communities, but with our new local structures and recent local government elections it seems an appropriate time to develop these plans in collaboration with the PPAs and local communities, and to take this process forward.

Lastly, the issue of budgeting is a challenge that faces our PPAs. I know how tight our budgets are, and how difficult it is to reallocate resources or find money, but if we are to sustain a provincial process we must look at how we budget for it. I raise these issues because I see the beginning of a vibrant and important process. The PPAs are experiencing some growing pains, but I think that they are, in many ways, simple solutions to the challenges we face. As I mentioned, nationally the LPA is located in the Presidency.

May I suggest that the NCOP could examine the locations of the PPAs and, if necessary, make recommendations to the premiers as well as to the Presidency. We are monitoring and reporting nationally and we need to work together to establish consistent monitoring systems that give us an accurate picture of children. Accompanying this would be a regular reporting mechanism.

The last issue concerning LPAs is that we have learnt many lessons in this process, nationally and provincially, and I think it is important for us to share some of those experiences in local government and to work with them in establishing functioning LPAs. Taking it to local level will mean improved delivery of services for children, and that, in the end, is the goal for all of us.

I wish again to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me this opportunity to address the NCOP on this topic that affects all of us. Perhaps I might encourage hon members to create more space and time in this forum for children and their issues. The role of this House is crucial to the broader process and I hope that we will be able to complement each other’s roles and responsibilities in the lives of our children and to make sure that the most precious asset that this country has is always nourished and sustained. [Applause.]

Mr B WILLEM: Mr Chairperson, Comrade Minister, permanent delegates and distinguished guests who are here, particularly the children, first and foremost I wish to thank you, Chairperson, for awarding me this noble opportunity. I suppose that I am the only one who will be addressing this House from a wheelchair today.

There has never been a moment in the lives of our nation and our country when a single day has been a children’s day. This is the moment that has dawned today with the ascent of the ANC into power. Never before has this country seen the rights of the child being the business of the day. International Children’s Day gives us a perfect opportunity to take stock of whether those policies, laws and conventions that are geared towards transformation and the enhancement of our lives, which we, as the ANC-led Government, have adopted and ratified, have made any meaningful difference in our children’s lives.

I believe that the fact that this joint monitoring committee exists in Parliament now is a signal of the seriousness with which we regard our children as our future and that this joint monitoring committee is not the only one in Parliament that will continue to hold dear the rights of the children. Almost every committee has one or the other aspect for the improvement of the lives of children at heart, whether or not it is social development which ensures that the rights of children are fundamental and protected.

Today we have a committee in Parliament that ensures that the legislation we pass in this House protects the wellbeing of our children and their rights. At no stage shall we, as responsible legislators, ignore the rights of our children. We have a responsibility as parents to educate our children and make them responsible, because they are the future leaders of our country. Our Government realises that it takes not only the combined efforts of our politicians in all three spheres of Government to ensure that our children are nurtured, but also an active partnership with the private sector, the business sector, the NGOs and CBOs. We shall ensure that the legislation that we create legitimises and improves the lives of our children.

We have an enormous advantage in this country that will serve us well in the struggle for the rights of our children. We have a proven track record of fighting for our liberation from the apartheid regime. We perceive the challenge of protecting our children’s future within this same fighting strength. We have the political will to ensure that our children do not suffer, as we did, from racial discrimination, gutter education, criminal elements, the ravages of HIV/Aids and, these days, the snares of the perverts on the Internet and other menaces that threaten the most vulnerable in our country.

We as the ANC have not yet finished with the process of reconstructing our country from the harshly inequitable environment of the past into a real working democracy. Our accomplishments here in Parliament and on the ground will guarantee that we ratify transformative human rights conventions such as the UN conventions on the rights of children. Our efforts here ensure that transformation forms the backbone of our new policies. Let me highlight one or two of the articles contained in the Convention on the Rights of the Child that we believe are fundamental in our determination to nurture our nation’s future.

In terms of article 1, South Africa has agreed to respect and ensure the rights set forth in the present convention to each child within our jurisdiction without discrimination of any kind. This means that we will not discriminate on the grounds of race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national, ethnic or social origin, property, disability, birth or other status.

We have endorsed, in article 3, the fact that in all actions concerning children, whether undertaken by public or private social welfare institutions, courts of law, administrative authorities or legislative bodies, the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration. We are determined to be vigilant to ensure that no child living in South Africa finds himself or herself subjected to exploitation of any kind.

It is only through our collective and individual efforts that we can guarantee the safety of our children. I believe that we should listen attentively to the voices of our children. In fact, we are sitting here in this House today where some of those children in 1976 that were at the forefront of challenging an illegal government demanded that the National Party government hear us and release our leaders. We taught our elders well that they should fight back and we were even prepared to sacrifice our lives, so that we, in turn, should not discredit the voices of our children or treat them as lesser human beings because they are younger.

Our committee has been actively engaging in discussion with the Office on the Status of the Child. This is the committee which is the mouthpiece of our children. Our children in all the nine provinces have structures called provincial programmes of action. These structures articulate and express the aspirations of our children. We regard the future of our country embodied in our children so seriously that we are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that the voices of our children are heard. [Applause.]

Mnr J L THERON: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister en die agbare kinders van Suid- Afrika, dit is beslis ‘n voorreg om vandag te kan praat in die debat oor internasionale kinderdag. Dit is natuurlik ‘n saak wat veral die mense wat self kinders het, baie na aan die hart lê. Ek wil in die kort tyd tot my beskikking veral let op die gesondheidsaspekte rondom kinders, en veral die klem op die MIV/Vigsepidemie en watter geweldige negatiewe invloed dit op die kinders se jong lewens kan uitoefen.

Volgens ‘n verslag van ABT Associates in Love Life, is meer as 3,5 miljoen mense tans in Suid-Afrika MIV-positief en dit word geprojekteer dat hierdie syfer sal verdubbel in die volgende tien jaar. Hieruit word afgelei dat ses tot tien miljoen mense in die volgende dekade in Suid-Afrika kan sterf aan MIV/Vigs. Volgens die verslag gaan meer as die helfte Suid-Afrikaners onder 20 nie ouer as 35 word nie. Alhoewel die siekte tans nie gestop kan word nie, is daar tog ‘n kans om hierdie geweldige gety wat Suid-Afrika getref het, te probeer draai. Dit kan die beste gedoen word deur versigtige, gerigte voorkomingstrategieë, veral onder die 45% van die Suid-Afrikaanse bevolking onder die ouderdom van 15 jaar.

Jongmense veral word baie ernstig deur die MIV-virus besmet en die navorsing toon dat 60% van alle mense wat MIV-besmet raak, jonger as 25 is. Jong vroue is veral sagte teikens vir hierdie dodelike virus. Jong vroue het ‘n groter risiko om besmet te word, as gevolg van biologiese, sosiale en ekonomiese faktore. ‘n Onlangse studie in KwaZulu-Natal onder universiteitstudente het die besmettingskoers gestel op 26% onder vroue en 12% onder mans in die ouderdomsgroep 20-24. ‘n Totaal van 36% onder vroue en 23% onder mans in die ouderdomsgroep 25-29. Hierdie inligting beklemtoon dus die dringende behoefte vir prioriteitsvoorkomingsprogramme onder veral jongmense en jong vroue wat die grootste segment hiervan uitmaak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follow.)

[Mr J L THERON: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and honourable children of South Africa, it is indeed a privilege for me today to participate in the debate on International Children’s Day. It is a matter which lies very close to the heart, especially for those people who have children themselves. In the short time at my disposal I want to highlight the health aspects concerning children, and especially emphasize the HIV/Aids epidemic and what an enormous negative impact it has on the young lives of children.

According to a report from ABT Associates in Love Life, more than 3,5 million people in South Africa are presently HIV-positive and it has been projected that this figure will double in the next ten years. From this it is deduced that 6 to 10 million people will die of HIV/Aids in South Africa in the next decade.

According to this report more than half of South Africans below 20 years of age will not get beyond 35 years of age. Although this illness can presently not be stopped, there is still a chance to turn this fierce tide which has hit South Africa. This can best be done by safe, directional preventive strategies, especially amongst the 45% of the South African population under the age of 15 years.

Young people especially are seriously infected by the HI virus and research has shown that 60% of all people who are HIV- infected are younger than 25 years. Young women especially are soft targets for this deadly virus. Young women have a greater risk of becoming infected, as a result of biological, social and economic factors. A recent study in KwaZulu-Natal amongst university students has set the infection rate at 26% amongst women and 12% amongst men in the age group 20-24. A total of 36% amongst women and 23% amongst men in the age group 25-29. This information emphasises the urgent need for priority preventive programmes especially amongst young people and young women who make up the biggest segment of this group.]

Orphans are perhaps the most tragic and enduring legacy of the HIV/Aids epidemic. By 2005 there are expected to be around 800 000 orphans under the age of 15. This figure will rise to more than 1,95 million, that is about 2 million, in 2010. Models of providing support for these vulnerable children and their communities urgently need to be explored because traditional coping mechanisms are likely to break down.

The sharpest economic effect of the South African epidemic will probably be on wealth distribution rather than on the size of the economy as a whole. In the field of human and social development, however, the consequences are expected to be much more profound. Increased illness and deaths and reduced life expectancy will clearly compromise development objectives, while the survival of poor households will be made more difficult. Increasingly, HIV/Aids is expected to be a major determinant of the ability of households to extricate themselves from long-standing poverty.

Ek wil in dié verband graag ‘n voorbeeld aanhaal, wat na aan my eie gesin gekom het. Ons het ‘n huishulp wat al baie jare by ons werk en baie lank een van die gesin is. Twee maande gelede het my vrou agtergekom dat sy baie ontsteld was na ‘n telefoonoproep. Haar suster is oorlede en haar vyf kinders is wees gelaat. Ons huishulp se gesin is skielik met twee kinders vergroot, terwyl die res van die familie die ander drie kinders sal versorg. Hieruit kan gesien word hoe hierdie dodelike epidemie baie skielik ‘n gesin se welvaartsituasie baie ernstig kan beïnvloed. Ek wil graag afsluit.

Ek het probeer aantoon hoe ernstig die MIV/Vigsepidemie veral die jeug van Suid-Afrika beïnvloed. Daarom wil ek nou graag ‘n beroep op die Minister van Gesondheid en haar departement en die hele uitvoerende gesag doen, om weer eens baie ernstig aandag te skenk aan hierdie epidemie en veral sy invloed op die jeug van Suid-Afrika. Ek vertrou daarom dat die agb Minister die boodskap sal oordra. Ons weet dat daar reeds baie geld begroot is om hierdie epidemie te beveg, maar dit is hoegenaamd nie genoeg om te verseker dat ons in die toekoms sal kan staatmaak op ‘n gesonde en goedopgeleide werkerskorps nie. Daar sal in die toekoms beslis groter dele van die begroting aan gesondheidsorg en onderwys bestee moet word, indien daar enigsins doeltreffend teen hierdie MIV/Vigsepidemie opgetree wil word in die belang van die jeug van Suid-Afrika. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to cite an example in this regard which came close to my own family. We have a domestic worker who has been working for us for many years and who has been one of the family for quite some time. Two months ago my wife discovered that she was very upset after she received a telephone call. Her sister had died and her five children were orphaned. The family of our domestic worker was suddenly increased by two more children, while the rest of the family would look after the other three children. Through this one can see how this deadly epidemic can suddenly very seriously influence the welfare of a family. I would like to conclude.

I have tried to indicate how seriously the HIV/Aids epidemic can influence especially the youth of South Africa. For this reason I now want to appeal to the Minister of Health and her department and the entire executive authority, to once again give serious attention to this epidemic and especially its influence on the youth of South Africa. I therefore trust that the hon the Minister will convey the message. We know that a lot of money has already been budgeted to fight this epidemic, but it is still not enough to ensure that we can depend on a healthy and well-trained workforce in the future. In future we will have to spend bigger parts of the budget on health care and education, if we want to efficiently counter this HIV/Aids epidemic in the interests of the youth of South Africa. [Applause.]]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Mr Chairperson, at least for the first time today, hon Theron did not try to parade his face, which is not that pretty, by trying to mix water with oil.

The ANC is deeply concerned about the alarming reports concerning child abuse throughout South Africa, particularly in children’s homes and institutions in areas - I direct this to the hon Kgware - around Gauteng and the Western Cape.

Draft protocol documents on the management of child abuse and neglect cases were developed in each province. I hope that Thoko is here. If what I am saying is not correct, she will come to the committee and we will deal with these things. The nine provinces submit quarterly reports to the department on the progress and implementation of these protocols. If that is not happening, we must deal with that in the committee.

The provision of free medical care and food nutrition schemes to children under the age of six is clearly an indication that the ANC Government is prepared to invest in the child for the good future of the country. The most destructive manifestation of family violence and upheaval is child abuse and neglect. Our goals should be, amongst others, prevention, early identification and comprehensive treatment of child abuse victims.

Children’s contribution in the everyday life of families and in society should be recognised and encouraged, as long as this contributes to the child’s own development. In contrast to this, exploitation of children in the labour market may deprive them of their childhood and educational opportunities and even endanger their health both in the present and in future. Issues of child labour have reached such demonic proportions that until people at grass-roots level are mobilised enough, desired results will remain just a dream. The use and abuse of these little souls is an unpardonable sin.

Since child labour is a worldwide problem, simply blaming the ineffectiveness of the law will not absolve us of our responsibilities.

Quite a number of children disappear from our streets on their way home from school, particularly in the two provinces I spoke about, Gauteng and the Western Cape. I hope the hon Kgware is listening. This growing affliction has the capacity and strength to go deeper and wider, unless every heart, every mind and everybody sheds the attitude of complacency and takes small but significant steps towards its complete elimination. Our Government is therefore committed to curbing various forms of child abuse, which include physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Child neglect represents the failure of a parent - I direct this to Comrade Archie or any other person legally responsible for a child’s welfare … [Laughter] … to provide for the child’s basic needs and an adequate level of care.

The worldwide spreading of violence against girls in schools amounts to a gross violation of human rights, and if allowed to continue unchecked will represent a failure of society to protect vulnerable sections of the community. Such violence and harassment not only cause direct physical and emotional harm to those affected, but also undermine the safety of the general schooling environment.

In 1998 - I direct this to the Comrade Minister - the Ministerial Gender Equity Task Team addressed sexual violence prevention in its report and made wide-ranging recommendations, including the need for focused attention on gender equity in the curriculum, the monitoring of all violence against girls and women in educational institutions, and ensuring that disciplinary procedures are not only in place, but are being implemented with respect to both learners and educators.

In conclusion, the eradication of sexual abuse in schools is not the task of the Government only. Parents, learners, teachers and community structures all need to become involved in the fight against this problem. Only then will the safety, dignity and right to education of all young women be adequately protected by our society, including myself, as a father. [Applause.]

Mev J WITBOOI: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Minister en agb lede, ek is self ‘n ma en daarom sal ek, soos die agb lid aan die anderkant vra, mooi praat.

‘n AGB LID: Ja! Praat mooi!

Mev J WITBOOI: Toe ek by ‘n familiegeleentheid gevra word om die woord demokrasie'' aan die jonger lede te verduidelik, het ek, nadat ek dit gedoen het en gevra het of hulle verstaan, 'n antwoord gekry wat my weer eens laat besef het hoeveel onskuld in kindwees opgesluit lê. Een van die kleintjies het my ná my verduideliking bedank en na sy ma gedraai en vir haar gesê:Niemand mag van nou af vir my forseer of met my raas as ek éérs my poeding wil eet en daarná my kos nie.’’ Vir sommige van ons kinders het die wreedhede van die lewe nog nie getref nie. Dit is genade.

Kindwees is mooi-wees tyd, droomtyd, bloeityd. Ons weet egter daar is vandag miljoene onskuldige kinders vir wie kindwees alles behalwe droomtyd is. Ek is seker as ons vandag hierdie debat aan kinders sou oorlaat, ons verslae sou sit oor wat ons dalk sou hoor. Miskien sou ‘n klein, bang seuntjie vandag hier voor ons kom sê: ``Ek weet nie waar my pa is nie. Hy betaal geen onderhoud vir my nie, en alles wat ons al gedoen het om hom op te spoor, was tevergeefs. Die toepassing van ons land se wette help ons ook nie veel om hom in die hande te kry nie, en om hom te dwing om my te versorg nie.’’

Dalk sou ‘n ander kind vandag hier kom staan het om hulde te bring aan duisende vrywillige hande en harte wat vir hulle langs die lewenspad oopgegaan het toe hulle wees gelaat is deur siektes soos MIV/Vigs, tuberkulose, ens. Ons moet vandag hierdie mense eer wat, sonder om te aarsel, ánder mense se kinders húl kinders gemaak het. Sou die kindertjies vandag hier kon staan en ‘n voorstel indien, is ek seker dat nie een van ons sou omgee of dit ‘n voorstel met of sonder kennisgewing is, indien die voorstel soos volg sou lui nie: ``Ons pleit vir kinderbeskermingseenhede regoor die land, in elke uithoek van Suid-Afrika, vir ons wat verkrag, gemolesteer en aangerand word, soms deur familielede. Ons het nêrens heen om te vlug nie. Ons pleit vir die opleiding van onderwysers vir kinders met spesiale behoeftes, sodat ons wat, na die beste van vermoë, nie in ‘n normale skool kan vorder nie, ook ‘n menswaardige kans gegun word.’’

Oor die regte van die kind bestaan daar van graffiti tot lywige dokumente ter bewusmaking. Dit is ons taak om die boodskap uit te dra sodat ons kinders kan weet hul stemme word gehoor. Ek wil aan die voorsitter en die lede van die gesamentlike moniteringskomitee vir die verbetering van die lewe en die status van kinders, jeug en persone met gestremdhede sê: gaan voort met die goeie werk! Ek moet byvoeg dit is vir my ‘n besondere voorreg om in daardie komitee te dien. Ons moet moniteer of die wette wat bestaan, wel geïmplementeer word, en enige struikelblok verwyder wat mag verhinder dat ons ons pragtige wette tot uitvoering bring. Ons moet seker maak dat ons die kinderstemme hoor. Kom ons gaan voort om ander mense se kinders óns kinders te maak. ‘n AGB LID: Dit is mooi! Dit is mooi! [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs J WITBOOI: Mr Chairman, hon Minister and hon members, I am a mother myself and that is why I, like the hon member on the other side is asking me to, speak nicely.

An HON MEMBER: Yes! Speak nicely!

Mrs J WITBOOI: When I was asked, at a family gathering, to explain the word democracy'' to the younger members, I received a reply, after doing so and asking them whether they had understood, that once again made me realise how much innocence is locked up in childhood. One of the little ones thanked me after my explanation, turned to his mother and said to her: From now on no one may force me, or scold me if I want to eat my dessert first and then my food.’’ Some of our children have not yet been affected by the cruelties of life. That is grace.

Childhood is the time to be beautiful, to dream, to blossom. We know, however, that there are millions of children today whose childhood is anything but the time to dream. I am certain that if we had left this debate today to children, we would be dismayed at what we might hear. Perhaps a fearful little boy would stand here before us today and say to us: ``I do not know where my father is. He does not pay any maintenance for me, and everything that we have done to find him has been in vain. The enforcement of our country’s laws does not help us to find him and force him to care for me.’’

Perhaps other children would have stood here today to pay tribute to thousands of voluntary hands and hearts that had been opened to them along the course of their lives when they were orphaned by diseases such as HIV/Aids, tuberculosis, etc. We must honour those people today who, without hesitating, made other people’s children their children. Would the children have been able to stand here today and move a motion, I am certain that not one of us would have minded whether it was a motion with or without notice, if the motion went as follows: ``We plead for child protection units right across the country, in every corner of South Africa, for those of us who are raped, molested and assaulted, sometimes by family members. We have nowhere to flee to. We plead for the training of teachers of children with special needs, so that we who, even to the best of our ability, cannot make progress in a normal school could also be given a dignified chance.’’

In respect of the rights of the child, from graffiti to substantial documents exist to create awareness. It is our task to convey the message so that our children could know that their voices are being heard. I want to say to the chairperson and members of the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons: Continue with the good work! I must add that it is an exceptional privilege for me to serve on that committee. We must monitor whether the existing laws are being implemented, and remove any obstacles that may prevent our beautiful laws from having an effect. We must ensure that we will still hear children’s voices. Let us continue to make other people’s children our children.

An HON MEMBER: That is lovely! That is lovely! [Applause.]]

Ms M P THEMBA: Modilasetilo, ke rata go leboga Mme Witbooi gore gompieno o buile jaaka mme. O lateletse mafoko a a reng mmangwana o tswara thipa ka fa bogaleng. [Chairperson, I would like to thank Mrs Witbooi because, today, she spoke like a woman. She confirms the old saying that identifies a woman as somebody who will always protect her children.]

As we mark International Children’s Day on 1 June, we are reminded of how South African children have been denied basic human rights for decades. They suffered horribly under the brutal apartheid system.

The ANC, on this particular day, would like to thank all organisations working towards promoting the awareness, engagement and mobilisation of South African citizens in denouncing the violation of children’s rights. Equally important are welfare organisations that are working hard to provide shelter, food and clothing to the deprived children whose family lives have broken down due to violence, unemployment and other societal evils.

Children have been and continue to be abused, tortured, mistreated, neglected and abandoned by the people they live with. Children are not treated with the respect and dignity that human beings deserve, but are instead subjected to violence, poverty, racism and ignorance on the part of adults. I wish to take this opportunity to reiterate the commitment of the SA Government to a comprehensive programme to ensure that children of our country grow up in secure families and enjoy all the rights and privileges they deserve.

On 1 June 1994, we committed ourselves to the UN Declaration on the Rights of the Child. The motion mechanism which was announced at the opening of the first Parliament has been a success. The programmes that we had to implement included the provision of free medical care in state hospitals and clinics for children under six years of age; a nutritional feeding scheme in primary schools; programmes of the Departments of Justice and Social Development to empty the jails of children and to provide alternative care centres; and legislation to introduce free and quality education for children.

In addition to these successful programmes, which are currently in place, we have implemented child support grants for unemployed mothers with children under the age of seven. On this day we also extend our solidarity to children throughout the world whose lives are ravaged by the scourges of hunger, war and ignorance. We commit ourselves to contribute to the best of our ability to the international efforts aimed at resolving these problems. In particular, the ANC would like to emphasise the following clauses of the Children’s Charter of South Africa, which was adopted on 1 June 1992 by the International Children’s Summit. Articles 8 and 9 say:

All children have the right to free and equal, nonracial, nonsexist and compulsory education within one department, as education is a right, not a privilege.

All teachers should be qualified and treat children with patience, respect and dignity.

All children have the right to be protected from child labour and any other economic exploitation which endangers a child’s mental, physical or psychological health and interferes with his/her education so that he/she can develop properly and enjoy childhood.

All children have the right to be protected from prostitution and sexual exploitation.

The sexual abuse of girls in South African schools, documented in a report released on 30 March this year by Human Rights Watch, should be a source of concern for our entire society. The report says that South African girls continue to be raped, sexually abused, sexually harassed and assaulted by schoolmates, classmates and teachers. For many, violence and abuse are an inevitable part of the school environment.

The department has embarked on introducing sexual abuse prevention in the life-skills learning area, through analysing different kind of relationships that exist between the sexes, and also evaluating these relationships. Learners are enabled to reflect on their behaviour and that of others and to critically evaluate human rights values and practices.

I call upon all provincial legislatures to establish committees like the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons and the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women. [Applause.]

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Mr Chairperson, hon MECs present and hon members, it is very interesting that almost everyone in society dreams of having a child. Yet very few stop to think about what it means to be a parent. If it were not so, the courts would not have to grapple with cases of nonpayment of maintenance fees for children, and with child labour, child trafficking, sexual abuse and the murder of innocent children. I may name a lot. Children are precious. Let us love them, so as to promote love instead of hatred.

Let us promote leaders instead of criminals. Let us promote lovers, instead of fighters. When God gave leadership and authority to parents, he intended that we would also shoulder the responsibilities which parenthood places on us. Such unavoidable responsibilities are to ensure that children grow up in decent homes, in a warm and healthy environment. In addition, God intended that parents would shoulder their responsibilities to be teachers of morals and ethical values to their children, in both word and deed.

How we treat our children today, and how we conduct ourselves before them will, by and large, determine the type of adulthood we bequeath to our children.

Inkalankala izala inkalankala. Inkomo ingazala umuntu ungahleka? [Ubuwelewele]. Engiqonde ukukusho yolokhu,umzali kufale anikeze umntanakhe uthando aludingayo empilweni yakhe. Uyoludlulisela phambili empilweni yakhe. Kuyoba uchungechunge lothando kwabanye abantu ngoba umfundisile wena.[Uhleko]. Uluncele ebeleni.

Uma umkhulisa ngesankahlu, unya, inzondo namagqubu, uyobe utshala lokho empilweni yakhe. Kuyokhalwa ngaye kusukela emphakathini, emsebenzini, emndenini nakuyo yonke indawo. Akunduku, akusibhaxu, akumadivosi isimanga nje. [Ubuwelewele].

Kunezwi elimnandi eNcwadini eNgcwele elithi: ``Khulisa umntanakho ngendlela ofuna abe yiyo. Uyothi angakhula angadedi kuwe.’‘Ukugcizelela lokhu thina be-IFP sithi abantwana badinga ukudla, okokugqoka, indawo yokuhlala, ukudlala, ukufunda, ukululekwa, ukuhlonipha, inhlanzeko kanye nokusebenza. Konke lokhu nokunye engingakubalanga, inkosi yakho luthando, uthando, uthando. [Ihlombe]. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[A crab gives birth to another crab. Would you not be surprised to see a cow giving birth to a human being? [Interjections.] What I want to say is this: A parent should give his or her child the love that the child needs in his or her life. That child will do the same to his or her children. It will be a chain of love in which one generation passes love to the other just because you as a parent have been a role model to your child. To your child it is breastfeeding.

If you bring up your children in a rude, cruel, hateful and resentful way, you will be growing these things in your child’s life. Your child will be a pain in the neck in the community, in the workplace, in the family and almost everywhere. Fights, beating other people and divorces will be part of your child’s life. [Interjections.]

There is an interesting verse in the Scriptures, which says bring up your child the way you want him or her to be. Even when he or she is an adult, he or she will be what you have made that child to be. To emphasise this, we, the IFP, say children need food, clothes, places to stay, playgrounds, education and advice. They also need to be taught how to respect other people, how to clean their bodies and how to work so as to survive. All these things and other things, that I did not mention, could be categorised under one word, which is love, love, and love. [Applause.]]

Love, love, love. Love chain. [Laughter.]

Manana C NKUNA: Eka Muchaviseki Mutshami wa xitulu, eka Holobye, Holobye wa vana ni vatsoniwa, yena Holobye E G Pahad ni le ka vatirhikulobye, ndzi twa ndzi tsakile ngopfu ku kuma nkarhi wa ku vulavula. Hi Xitsonga va ri, N’wana a hi wa un’we. Hileswaku n’wana wa mina, i n’wana wa wena. Naswona n’wana wa wena, i n’wana wa mina. Ndzi tshemba leswaku na hi tindzimi letin’wana mi vula sweswo. Lawa i mavulavulelo lawa ya tirhisiwaka hi vaaki va laha Afrika Dzonga leswaku hi pfunana ku kurisa vana.

U nga ri loko u vona n’wana a ri ekhombyeni u n’wi tshika u ku: (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs C NKUNA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister dealing with the improvement of quality of life and status of women, Dr E G Pahad, hon members, I feel very happy to be given this opportunity to participate. In Tsonga we say a child does not belong to one person alone because my child is your child and your child is my child too. I believe it is the same with other languages as well. This is the expression used by South African citizens so that we may assist one another in the bringing up of children. If you happen to see a child in danger you should not leave that child alone and say:

Akusiye umntwana wami. Umntwana wakho ngumntwana wami, umntwana wami ngumntwana wakho. [He is not my child. Your child is also mine, my child is also yours.]

Jou kind is my kind, en my kind is jou kind. [Your child is mine, and my child is yours.]

Leri i vhiki leri ha rona hi tsundzukaka vana va hina laha Afrika Dzonga. Hi ta tsundzuka leswaku Mfumo lowu wa hina loko wu ta va wu ve kona hi 1994, wu ve wu swirhalanganya swo karhi, wu lavile ku vona leswaku vana va vekiwa emahlweni eka ajenda ya vona. Ndzi navela ku sungula ku vulavula hi ku vula leswaku, leri i vhiki ro tsundzuka vana, no vona leswaku vana va hlayiseka. Xosungula, hi ku landzelela timfanelo ta vana eka Vumbiwa, no vona leswaku vana va sirheleriwa. No kambisisa leswi Mfumo wu swi endleke ku fikela nkarhi wa sweswi.

Ndzi kombela ku humanyana emhakeni, ku na vanhu vo tala lava vulaka leswaku Mfumo a wu endli nchumu. A hi swi voni leswi Mfumo wu endlaka swona. Ndzi kombela leswaku hi nga dyi nkarhi wa hina hi vanhu lava nga tiyimiselangiki ku vona kumbe ku twa leswi swi endlekaka.

Matiko yo tala ya Afrika ya hlanganile namuntlha eCairo, ku languta xiviko lexi nga ta nyikiwa entsungeni, hikuva ku nga ri khale ku ta va na nhlangano wa matiko entsungeni. Ndzi pfumeleleni ndzi thlelela eAfrika Dzonga, ku langutisa leswi Mfumo wu swi endleleke vana. Xosungula, hikokwalaho ka nhlayo ya ku lova ka vana, mortality rate, Mfumo wu endle leswaku vamanana va kuma ku hlayisiwa. Va langutiwa lomuya titliliniki na lomuya swibedlhele loku va rhwele vana lava.

Mfumo wu tlhela wu yisa emahlweni leswaku vana lava, va kota ku nghena xikolo, va kota ku kuma mirhi lomuya swibedlhele ku fikela loko va va na malembe ya tsevu, va ri karhi va nga hakeri nchumu. Mfumo a wu helelangi kona kwalaho, kambe wu yile emahlweni wu vona leswaku loko vana va ta va ri le xikolweni va phakeriwa swakudya Feeding Scheme. I mani loyi a nga vulaka leswaku Mfumo lowu a wu le ku endleni ka nchumu? Mfumo lowu sungulaka hi n’wana kwale ndzeni ka khwiri ra wena?

Ku na leswi vuriwaka Child Support Grant, na swona swi famba kun’we na swilo leswi hinkwaswo. Hi na vana va ku ringana 60 000 lava kumaka Grant leyi. Nomboro ya kona yi ya emahlweni, yi tshinelela eka miliyoni. Kambe hambi swi ri tano, Mfumo lowu wu na swirhalanganyi.

Ku na vana lava nga na vatswari lava nga tirhiki. Sweswo na swona swi endla leswaku vana va nga koti ku kuma ku hlayiseka. Ntsena, hi khensa minhlngano leyi pfunaka ku vona leswaku vana va kurisiwa hi ndlela leyinene. Mihlangano ya ku hambana-hambana leyi nga ri ki minhlangano ya Mfumo, leswi vuriwaka leswaku i ti Non Govermental Organisations, lava va tikereke kumbe vukhongeri byo hambana-hambana, na va swa mahungu, ku va va kota ku hi komba leswaku vana va hlayiseka ku fika kwihi.

Hi khensa na vavanuna na vavasati lava mi nga kona laha, ni lava mi nga kona le handle, lava mi sapotaka vana va n’wina, hikuva va kona vanhu lava nga sapotiki. Ka ha ri na swirhalanganyi swo tala. A hi sirheleleni vana va hina eka swirhalanganyi leswi. Ndzi yimile ndzi vulavula emahlweni ka n’wina tani hi thicara, ndzi dyondzise vana malembe ya 17, ndza swi tiva swivanana. Ndzi yime tani hi mutswari. A hi sirheleleni vana va hina, hi nga va xanisi, ngopfu eka timhaka ta swa masangu. Hi nga xanisi vana va hina emimoyeni, emirini wa vona ni hi ku va hi nga va hlayisi. A hi nga swi koti ku vulavula hi vumundzuku bya Afrika Dzonga loko hi ya emahlweni ni ku xanisa vana. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[This week we commemorate our children in South Africa. We should remember that when our Government came into existence in 1994, it was faced with certain problems and had to see to it that children received first priority on its agenda. I would like to start by saying that this week in which we remember our children means that we must see to it that they are well looked after. Firstly, if we follow children’s rights in the Constitution, children should be protected. Let us review what the Government has done up to now.

Allow me to deviate a little from my subject, and say there are a lot of people who say that the Government is not doing anything. We do not see what the Government is doing. I request that we should not waste time on people who are not prepared to see or hear what is taking place.

Most African countries are holding a meeting today in Cairo, to consider the report which will be presented abroad, because in the near future there will be an international meeting abroad. Allow me to come back to South Africa, to see what the Government has done so far. In the first place, due to the infant mortality rate, the Government made a point of seeing to it that women should be well looked after. They go for consultations at clinics and hospitals when they fall pregnant.

The Government also assists parents by giving free medical care in order to enable parents to send their children to school, and children get free medication until they turn six. The Government did not end up doing that only, but made provision for feeding schemes at schools. Who can say that the Government did not do anything? The Government takes care of people from the time a child is in its mother’s womb.

There is the so-called child care grant, that also goes together with everything I have said. We have 60 000 people who benefit through this grant. The figure is increasing: it is nearly a million. However, this Government is still faced with problems. There are children with parents without jobs. That also causes a lack of support for children. We would like to thank organisations responsible for taking care of such children in order to bring them up in an orderly manner. Different NGOs, church organisations, and the media should show us to what extent these children are protected.

We also wish to thank men and women who are present here, and others out there, who support our children, because there are those who do not support children. There are still a lot of problems. Let us protect our children and do away with these problems. I stand and speak in front of you here as a teacher. I taught for 17 years, I know children very well. I am standing here as a parent. Let us protect our children. We should not abuse them, especially when it comes to sexual abuse. We should not punish our children emotionally or physically and we should not neglect to support them. If we continue to abuse them, we will not manage to speak about the future of South Africa.]

It is appropriate to repeat the cliché that today’s children and young adults are tomorrow’s adults and leaders.

Hinkwaswo leswi swi endleriwa vana va hina laha tikweni ra Afrika Dzonga. Laha Afrika Dzonga a hi lo tshama ntsena hi khondla mavoko, ku na pulani leyi vuriwaka leswaku i National Plan of Action for Children, leyi Mfumo wu yi salasalaka hi le ndzhaku ku vona leswaku vana va hlayisekile. A hi va rivalangi vana hikuva ha swi tiva leswaku vana i vumundzuku. They are the future of tomorrow.

Nakambe ku na Convention on the Rights of the Child, ya matiko lama nga hlangana, The United Nations, laha Afrika Dzonga na rona ri sayineke yi pfumelela leswaku vana hi ta va hlayisa. Ku na The African Charter on the Rights of the Children. Lama hi man’wana ya matsalwa lama hi ya salaka hi le ndzhaku ku vona leswaku vana va hlayiseka laha Afrika Dzonga. Vana va hina lava xanisiweke, va chava ku hlangana ni vanhu lavakulu. Ndzi byeleni vakulukumba, hi ya va vatswari va njhani loko vana va hi chava? Vana va hi chava hikuva hi va xanisile. All those different types of abuse. Vana va chava vatswari va vona. Va chava ku muka. Va chava ku muka loko xikolo xi humile.

N’wana loko a ya exikolweni, mi kuma a ambala swiambalo, a ambala xikipa, hembhe na jesi, a fihla swivangula leswi, wena mutswari u nga n’wi endla tona. [Va phokotela]. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[Again we have the Convention on the Rights of the Child, of the United Nations, which South Africa has also signed and pledged to support children. There is The African Charter on the Rights of the Child. We are also monitoring this in order to see to it that children are protected in South Africa. Our abused children are afraid to meet adults. Tell me, hon members, what type of parents are we going to be if children are afraid of us? Children are afraid of us because we abuse them. Children are afraid of their parents. They are afraid to go home after school.

When a child goes to school, you will find that that child puts on clothes, puts on a vest, a shirt and a jersey, in order to hide the marks caused by its parents. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, allow me, first of all, to please express my very deep gratitude and appreciation for this very positive debate that has taken place this afternoon. When we were having lunch - no, earlier - President Mbeki said to the Prime Minister of France, as we were going to the National Assembly, that it was very noisy there. Perhaps if he comes here he will find that it is not very noisy.

I thought the debate was very positive and really very helpful. A number of our people who spoke, spoke with a great deal of feeling and passion about our children and about our responsibilities both as the legislatures and, in that sense, as elected representatives of our people, and the responsibility that would also devolve upon the executive. So I am very appreciative of that.

If I may say something about what Mr Theron said: It is not a criticism, but the interpretation from Afrikaans referred to the term domestic servant.'' I do not know if he used it, but that is what the interpretation said and I just wanted to say that all of us are workers. Perhaps it is a matter of interpretation and, perhaps the officials themselves will look at it. Because it seems wrong to me that the wordservant’’ should be mentioned in the interpretation if it was not used. I thought I should bring this to his notice. That is the word that was used in the interpretation. We might want to look just at that. I will convey the hon member’s views to the Minister of Health. I suppose when she comes here the hon member will himself also express his views to her.

Let me say this that as a Government we need to address the issue of a policy on health, which is a health-for-all policy. There are also very many other killer diseases in this country, such as tuberculosis, malaria and other opportunistic infections. We need to deal with all of these in such a way that we treat and enable our people to get the best health services that may be possible.

I knew Mr Maloyi as a young man, and I am glad to note that he is now a father. [Laughter.] If I may disagree with him in this august House: I do not think that the issues of child labour have reached demonic proportions in South Africa. I think it is wrong to say that they have. There was a survey that was done and brought to the Cabinet, and we sent it back. The reason I am raising this is not to criticise the hon member, but if child labour has reached demonic proportions, that has very serious policy implications. It will also have very serious implications with regard to the budget and everything else. There is a problem of child labour, but I am not sure that it has reached demonic proportions. And since he comes from the North West, he had better watch it because I do my political work there. [Laughter.]

Ms Themba spoke about solidarity with children of the world. I want to agree with that, because as we stand here today, there are Palestinian children who are being killed. They are being killed because they want something that we ourselves wanted, and that is their freedom and national liberation. I want to join her in expressing that solidarity with the children of the world, in particular with those millions upon millions of children who still have to suffer from the ravages of poverty and underdevelopment.

Well, I agree, let us have a chain of love. I think that is a nice slogan. I hope Thoko heard that. Next time we go and make a report to the United Nations, we will call it ``the chain of love’’. Let that chain of love go right across the world.

I am very glad that Mrs Nkuna raised the issue of the conference in Cairo. Let me say that the Deputy Minister of Minerals and Energy, Susan Shabangu, is attending that conference on behalf of the Government. President Mbeki will also attend the special session of the United Nations on children that will be held in September this year. It will be a special session that is going to be attended by many heads of state, and he will be there on behalf of South Africa.

Let me make this last point, because it has come up quite often, and that is a question of orphans. It is a serious problem. Maybe the way we should deal with it is to go back to what the hon member said: ``Your child is my child and my child is your child.’’ Something is happening in our country. That fundamental human way of approaching many things seems to be breaking down, and the consequence is that one gets a greater number of orphans, who then pose a specific problem for us.

It might be a useful exercise, when the hon members go on their provincial visits, to actually do some serious research about orphans. A lot of statistics are thrown about and members do not know where they come from. They are sometimes extrapolated from some narrow survey that is done. In a sense sometimes we are operating a bit in the dark. It might be helpful if the hon members themselves paid a little more attention to that question during their provincial visits.

They should come back and through the NCOP we can see how the provinces and the local government can deal with it. Through the reports of this House we will be able to see how we at the national level can pay attention to the question of orphans.

Every child on the street should be our child. Every child that walks and sleeps on the street is a damning criticism of our failure to do something about it.

Finally, what I would like to say is that this is an issue, as this debate has shown us. All of us can rise above party politics and regard this as a national issue. All of us can get together and try to do something to make a difference in the lives of our children. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 19:03. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       WEDNESDAY, 30 MAY 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Trade and Industry on 23 May 2001 submitted a
     draft of the International Trade Administration Bill, 2001 as well
     as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Trade and Industry and the Select Committee on Economic Affairs
     by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance
     with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 29 May 2001 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75
     Bills:
     (i)     Agricultural Research Amendment Bill [B 25 - 2001]
             (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Counterfeit Goods Amendment Bill [B 27 - 2001] (National
             Assembly - sec 75).


     (iii)   Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill [B 29 - 2001] (National
             Assembly - sec 75).


 (3)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 29 May 2001 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bill as a section 76
     Bill:


     (i)     Consumer Affairs (Unfair Business Practices) Amendment
             Bill [B 28 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec
             76).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote No 6 - Communications for 1999-2000 [RP 115-2000].

                     THURSDAY, 31 MAY 2001
   

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote No 29
 - South African Police Service and the Secretariat for Safety and
 Security for 1999-2000 and Performance Audits of Human Resource
 Management and the Management of the Central Firearms Register [RP 138-
 2000].