National Assembly - 06 March 2002
WEDNESDAY, 6 MARCH 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 15:04.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.
The SPEAKER: Order! The Minister of Health has requested an opportunity to make a statement, and we will grant her that opportunity today after motions without notice.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr G SOLOMON: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the Deputy Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development,
Cheryl Gillwald, visited and swapped roles in the maintenance
court in Philippi yesterday, 5 March 2002; and
(b) this formed part of the Letsema focus month on human rights;
(2) believes that the visit by the Deputy Minister to this court served to highlight the plight of the single parent who has difficulty in accessing money for maintenance and the burden that officials have at the pay points; and
(3) commends the Minister for visiting this court to have first-hand experience of the difficulties encountered by people on the ground. [Applause.]
Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the appointment of Mr Vincent Smith as Acting Chairperson of
Scopa;
(b) that this constitutes a breach of the international principle of
an opposition chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts;
(c) that all opposition parties on Scopa voted against Mr Smith and
that he therefore only enjoys the support of the majority party
on Scopa; and
(d) the rejection of an opposition candidate nominated as
chairperson; (2) calls on Mr Smith and the ANC to strictly adhere to the time limit
that has been placed on Mr Smith's appointment by a decision of the
committee; and
(3) further calls on the ANC to institute an opposition chairperson on the first meeting of Scopa in the next term as agreed.
Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) is shocked to learn that 14-year-old Nasiphi Sokwaliwa, a schoolgirl from Khayelitsha, lost both feet when she fell under the train on Friday when her schoolmate tried to pull her into the open door of a crowded carriage;
(2) sends its deepest condolences to the bereaved family and wishes them speedy emotional reprieve; and
(3) appeals to Metrorail to increase its third-class carriage system since a large number of poor households use this system, and that such increase should be effected at peak hours to avoid further such injuries.
Mr J H NASH: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that 480 people were left homeless as a destructive fire ravaged the informal settlement of Joe Slovo in Langa, Cape Town, over the past weekend;
(2) calls on the community of Cape Town to volunteer and render whatever assistance necessary to assist those who were affected to ease the burden caused by this fire; and
(3) further calls on the municipal authorities to develop mechanisms to avoid more fires in these informal settlements.
[Applause.]
Mnr A H NEL: Mev die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) met waardering kennis neem van die aankondiging van President George W Bush dat sekere lande, waaronder Suid-Afrika, uitgesluit gaan word van invoertariewe op die meeste staalprodukte;
(2) besluit dat ‘n beroep gedoen word op die Europese Unie om hierdie goeie voorbeeld te volg en veral invoertariewe op landbouprodukte so laag as moontlik te hou of selfs af te skaf; en
3) verder die ontwikkelde lande daarop wys dat sulke stappe wêreldwye
armoede op 'n ekonomies gefundeerde wyse sal aanpak. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A H NEL: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move: That the House -
(1) notes with appreciation the announcement by President George W Bush that certain countries, among which South Africa, are going to be excluded from import tariffs on most steel products;
(2) has resolved that an appeal must be made to the European Union to follow this good example and to keep import tariffs on agricultural products in particular as low as possible or even to abolish them; and
(3) further points out to the developed countries that such steps will address worldwide poverty in an economically based way.]
Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, I will move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:
That the House -
(1) welcomes former President Nelson Mandela’s continued visionary leadership on the topic of HIV/Aids, especially in the absence of leadership from the Cabinet with regard to the HIV/Aids pandemic;
(2) notes the mounting criticism by the influential Newsweek, Washington Post and New York Times against President Mbeki’s dangerous and unjustified stance on HIV/Aids; and
(3) calls on the ANC and the Government to make use of the opportunity created by former President Mandela to retreat from their disastrous policy on HIV/Aids, and unite with all South Africans in their fight against this pandemic.
Mrs D G NHLENGETHWA: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes the school boycotts engineered by the Pan Africanist Students’ Organisation and the PAC in Mpumalanga in the Balfour District and Tsakane on the East Rand;
(2) believes that Paso and the PAC are using the issue of school fees to gain political mileage at the expense of learners;
(3) recognises that the violent and confrontational tactics used by Paso will not further their cause, but will disadvantage learners whose schooling is interrupted;
(4) reminds Paso and the PAC that the setting of school fees is the responsibility of parents and school governing bodies; and
(5) condemns Paso and the PAC for this attempt at causing disruption and destruction, rather than engaging constructively to address the needs of the nation’s learners.
[Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP at the next sitting of the House:
That the House - (1) notes with extreme concern that -
(a) the panel headed by Judge Dennis Davis to investigate the
lifeboat given to Bankorp by the Reserve Bank in 1985, has
discovered that the Reserve Bank acted outside its authority in
extending more than R1,25 billion to Bankorp between 1985 and
1995;
(b) through a simulated transaction, a grant from the Reserve Bank
was disguised as a loan and yielded interest income of R225
million a year for Bankorp shareholders over a five-year period,
which benefited certain directors of Bankorp who were closely
connected to cabinet members of the government of that time;
(c) the panel headed by Judge Dennis Davis could find no authority
to justify the gift of money to Bankorp's shareholders; and
(d) the policy holders and certain directors of Sanlam benefited to
the tune of R1,9 billion and were unfairly enriched from the
lifeboat package when Bankorp was sold to ABSA in 1992;
(2) calls on the Governor of the Reserve Bank … [Time expired.]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:
That the House -
(1) notes that the South African group of artists Umoja had a successful run in London until they were ordered to cancel their show, and as a result they had to leave the country unceremoniously as they were alleged to be making a noise because of the way they played their drums when they danced;
(2) notes that the situation was not only embarrassing but also humiliating for the group of members and the country, owing to the lack of appreciation of cultural and indigenous music by the British; and
(3) is of the view that this situation has to be discussed to ensure that in future when South African cultural groups intend travelling and performing abroad, they are informed and protected from such incidences by the Government.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mev M S MAINE: Mev die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) van die barbaarse manier waarop die sewentigjarige mev Annikie
Niewoudt van die Silwerjare-outehuis in Schweizer-Reneke vermoor
is;
(b) dat op 4 Maart 2002 die gemeenskap van Schweizer-Reneke,
verteenwoordigend van alle rasse, in 'n optog teen geweld hande
gevat en na die hof opgeruk het, waar een beskuldigde verhoor
is, en dat die gemeenskap geëis het dat die moordenaars swaar
gestraf moet word; en
(c) dat drastiese pogings aangewend moet word om die polisie met
alle middels ter beskikking by te staan om die skuldiges vinnig
te arresteer;
(2) ‘n beroep doen op alle gemeenskappe om vrywillig hul dienste beskikbaar te stel en die voorbeeld van Schweizer-Reneke te volg, om saam te staan in tye soos hierdie, ongeag watter ras of kultuur die slagoffer is; en
(3) kennis neem dat die ANC hiermee sy diepste medelye met die familie wil betoon. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
Mrs M S MAINE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the barbaric manner in which the seventy-year-old Mrs Annikie
Niewoudt of the Silwerjare old age home in Schweizer-Reneke was
murdered;
(b) that on 4 March 2002, in a demonstration against violence, the
community of Schweizer-Reneke, representative of all races,
joined hands and marched to court where one accused was tried
and that the community demanded that the murderers be severely
punished; and
(c) that drastic attempts must be made to assist the police with all
means at our disposal to arrest the guilty swiftly;
(2) appeals to all communities voluntarily to offer their services and to follow the example of Schweizer-Reneke to stand together in times like these, irrespective of the race or culture of the victim; and
(3) notes that the ANC would hereby like to express its deepest sympathy with the family.]
Mrs P W CUPIDO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion:
That this House -
(1) notes -
(a) the remarkable turnaround under DA administration in the City of
Cape Town with regard to street crime and cleanliness;
(b) a survey done recently shows that the majority of people now
feel safe in the city centre and find the cleanliness of the
city to be acceptable; and
(c) crime has plummeted and that this contrasts with a similar
survey two years ago in Cape Town which showed that the majority
of people felt that there was a spiral of crime and grime; and
(2) congratulates the DA, the alternative government, which has proved that since winning the municipal elections in Cape Town in December 2000, it is capable of making a vast difference whereas ANC- controlled cities around the country are deteriorating and definitely not improving.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr M F CASSIM: Madam Speaker, I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) that South Africa has 11 official languages;
(b) an expectation that individuals in our country will have an
opportunity to express themselves in the language of their
choice at most times and every day;
(c) that this necessity is most compelling in situations that are so
grave as to mean life and death; and
(d) up to now this was only an ideal;
(2) welcomes enthusiastically the announcement by the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology to initiate the trial Telephone Interpreting Service for South Africa project, called TISSA;
(3) is gratified that two individuals at different ends will now be able to talk to each other via an interpreter from a call centre in Bloemfontein; and
(4) heartily welcomes the initiation of this project and trusts that this will open the way for a genuine multilingual environment to be created in South Africa.
We welcome TISSA. [Applause.]
Mr M E GEORGE: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the North West police have arrested 1 097 people, and seized 10 vehicles valued at R303 000 and goods worth R75 775 during Operation Tsipa in the North West province last month;
(2) commends members of the South African Police for recovering these goods and bringing criminals to book; and
(3) calls on communities to continue to work with police to fight crime in the province.
[Applause.]
Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that the South African economy needs skilled, hard-working immigrants;
(2) calls upon all respective role-players to allow South African companies to recruit skilled, dedicated immigrants to train South Africans and to share their knowledge with their South African counterparts; (3) further notes that immigration of skilled workers is essential to create sustained long-term economic growth; and
(4) calls on Minister Buthelezi and the Department of Home Affairs to design a policy that will protect South African jobs and facilitate a process that will attract scarce foreign expertise and investors to South Africa.
DEATH OF SHRI G M C BALAYOGI, THE SPEAKER OF THE LOK SABHA, THE HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE OF THE INDIAN PARLIAMENT
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice that the House:
(1) notes with shock and sadness the death of Shri G M C Balayogi, the Speaker of the Lok Sabha, the House of the People of the Indian Parliament;
(2) believes that the death of Speaker Balayogi is a loss that will be felt by the parliamentary community throughout the world;
(3) mourns the loss of Speaker Balayogi; and
(4) offers its heartfelt condolences to his family and loved ones, and to the Parliament and people of India, whom the late Shri Balayogi so unstintingly served.
Agreed to.
GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS OF SOUTH AFRICAN SPORTSMEN, BABY JAKE MATLALA AND ERNIE ELS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I move without notice that the House:
(1) notes the great achievements of South African sportsmen Baby Jake Matlala and Ernie Els at the weekend; (2) acknowledges Baby Jake Matlala as one of the world’s most successful boxers and as a man who has inspired many young South Africans and has brought credit to his country;
(3) congratulates him on his victory at the weekend and wishes him well in his retirement; and
(4) further congratulates Ernie Els on his victory in the Genuity Tournament in the USA and looks forward to many more victories from him in the future.
Agreed to.
BABY JAKE MATLALA'S VICTORY OVER JUAN HERRERA OF COLOMBIA
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice that the House:
(1) notes that -
(a) Baby Jake Matlala won with a technical knockout against Juan
Herrera of Colombia last weekend; and
(b) this was Matlala's last fight and was attended by dignitaries
such as US-born actor Will Smith and former President of the
Republic of South Africa, Mr Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela;
(2) believes that Baby Jake Matlala has been an inspiration and a mentor to young people;
(3) congratulates him on his achievement during his career as a boxer; and
(4) wishes him good luck on his future career plans.
Agreed to.
ALLOCATION OF TIME FOR POLITICAL PARTY RESPONSES TO STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice that the House notes:
That, notwithstanding Rule 106, for the rest of 2002 the following times be allocated for party responses to statements by Ministers:
African National Congress: 5 minutes; Democratic Party: 4 minutes;
Inkatha Freedom Party: 4 minutes; New National Party: 3 minutes; United
Democratic Movement: 2 minutes and all other parties: 1 minute each.
Agreed to.
HEALTH SYSTEMS TRUST REPORT
(Statement)
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Madam Speaker and hon members, before commenting on the interim report of the Health Systems Trust, I would like to take a minute to explain how this report of the HST came about.
Towards the end of the year 2000, when my colleagues in the provinces and I decided to establish the operational research sites on preventing mother-to- child transmission of HIV, we also decided to commission an independent organisation to record and analyse the progress at these sites. Hence, the Health Systems Trust was asked to undertake this task.
Even though the provincial departments and national Department of Health would be collecting information from the sites and would be evaluating progress, we felt that we needed to have a more objective appraisal of the programme. The interim report of the HST on MTCT, therefore, comes as no surprise, as it poses the operational questions that we all agreed were important and seeks to provide some answers on the basis of the first six months of experience at these sites.
I am pleased that we have this report to assist us in future decisions and policy formulation on this programme. I think that I should highlight, as the Health Systems Trust itself does, what the interim report does and what it cannot do. The presence of the word ``interim’’ in the title of the report is a clue to its limitations and also indicates that there will be further reports at a later stage.
The report does not deal with the impact of the use of nevirapine in reducing HIV rates among babies at the research sites. This is because the programme is simply too new to yield this information. Every baby given nevirapine will be tested at one year to determine his or her HIV status. Because the first sites only began in May, we will only begin to see the outcome in terms of HIV prevention in the second half of the year 2002, and it is only then that the issue of universal access will be considered.
However, the report does examine the operation of the existing sites in some detail. It looks at the number of women seen, the uptake rates of HIV testing, the conditions under which HIV testing and counselling are offered, the reliability of nevirapine administration, the use of obstetric protocols for women with HIV, questions relating to the feeding of the baby, and the follow-up of mother and baby pairs after delivery.
In the light of what is actually happening at research sites, the report discusses and makes recommendations, firstly, to improve the running of existing sites, and secondly, to inform decisions on the possible extension of the mother-to-child programme in a manner that is effective and sustainable.
Let me then highlight some of the findings of the report. Within the 18 national research sites the MTCT programme is being provided in over 200 health facilities. This is equivalent to approximately 3 090 antenatal bookings per month. This means that we are already covering between 10% and 15% of the antenatal bookings in the country in less than one year. This translates to approximately 3 133 pregnant women per month that we are reaching through this programme. This is indeed the largest MTCT programme in sub-Saharan Africa.
It is a fact that in the whole world there is not a single country which provides universal access to MTCT. All countries are doing research of one kind or another, because these medicines are new and their long-term effects are unknown. The report comments on four main issues, namely staffing, management infrastructure, physical infrastructure and service integration. The report says, and I quote: Human resources are the bedrock of a well-functioning health system and mother-to-child transmission programme.
Their recommendations are that we should develop minimum staffing norms and standards; recruit, train and deploy lay counsellors to support the service; improve supervision and support of the facility level; and address the deficiencies in the training of health professionals such as doctors and nurses on how to deal with Aids patients.
The report says, and I quote:
A functional health system with effective subdistrict health management teams, capable of integrating community-based, clinic-based and hospital- based services, is critical.
This means that an MTCT programme should not be implemented as a vertical programme. It must be integrated with all levels of care through the district health system. We are working hard with the Department of Provincial and Local Government on the implementation of the district health system, to ensure that all our health services reach everyone in every district council, local municipality, municipal ward and village.
The report says, and I quote:
Inadequate physical space and privacy has hampered the ability to provide adequate counselling and HIV testing services, as well as intrapartum care, in many facilities.
It says this is a major barrier to coverage, and therefore we need to expedite the upgrading of the physical infrastructure of the primary health care facilities and district hospitals across the country.
The report says, and I quote:
Counselling has been too strongly associated with consent for an HIV test and it needs to be incorporated in a broader set of activities that include empowering women with knowledge and information about their childbirth, HIV, MTCT and infant feeding.
The report says we must consider couple HIV testing and counselling. It says we must explore the use of rapid saliva HIV tests as an alternative to rapid blood testing. Of course, we will explore these proposals, but we will not compromise the standards and quality of HIV diagnostic testing.
The report says we must address the lack of clarity about clinical and obstetric management of HIV-positive women in labour. It also encourages the use of patient-held records instead of keeping patient files at health facilities. This, it argues, should be done to protect patient confidentiality. As hon members can see, some of these recommendations need serious planning and cannot be done overnight.
The researchers say that, and I quote:
Plans for expansion must therefore address the systematic and infrastructural constraints in order to avoid a multiplication of poor and/or nonsustained service delivery, as well as to reduce health care inequity.
And that is exactly what we are striving for, to improve our health care delivery system and to ensure that every citizen has equitable access to quality health care in our country.
The HST report cautions that, and I quote:
The impression created that implementing the mother-to-child transmission programme is as easy as dispensing aspirin fails to convey the many genuine complexities that are outlined in this report.
It argues that we should use the lessons learnt in implementing an MTCT programme as an engine and a catalyst for the improvement of the health care system and primary health care services in general. The HST specialises in public health and is not qualified to do clinical research.
I now want to raise an important but related matter. The investigation of questions relating to resistance to nevirapine within the mother-to-child transmission programme is being carried out as a separate research programme, with the National Institute for Communicable Diseases providing the necessary expertise. As the Health Systems Trust report points out, research in other countries establishes that resistance does occur and that maybe the levels are higher than initially thought. We hope to provide more conclusive answers by taking relatively large experimental samples of 300 women.
This research is being co-funded by Boehringer-Ingelheim, which manufactures nevirapine, and which is required by the Medicines Control Council to supply information on resistance as a condition of registration of the drug for mother-to-child transmission.
Clinical research is being done amongst 300 women at a cost of approximately R4 million, in order to monitor closely issues of resistance and adverse reactions due to nevirapine. This research has not been done anywhere before.
I must remind this House that there is still no cure for Aids, and that in the absence of a cure, our focus remains on prevention strategies, health promotion and education, the vigorous treatment of opportunistic infections and the care and support of those who are infected and affected by HIV and Aids. We must not forget that the drug nevirapine is not a cure for Aids, and it should also not be used as a contraceptive. Our responsibility is to encourage every South African to take appropriate action to prevent the transmission of HIV. We continue to remind each and every South African to abstain from sex, and for young people to delay their sexual debut for as long as possible. Everyone must be faithful to one partner, and those who cannot do any of the above should use a condom.
If I could, I would make the HST report compulsory reading for every member of this House. [Interjections.] This is largely because the document recognises the complexity of the programme and examines this in a helpful way.
When the health authorities argue that the mother-to-child transmission programme is much more than providing women with a pill and babies with a few drops of nevirapine, they are, in the current unfortunate environment, seen as making excuses to delay the expansion of the programme. When the HST makes a similar assertion, and substantiates it by describing the issues involved, we hope it facilitates a fruitful discussion, which focuses on solutions.
The HST report also reflects on some of the scientific questions in a manner that makes these understandable, even to those of us who are not conversant with this field of work. This, in turn, helps us all to engage in the related policy debates.
Of particular interest is the HST’s assertion that the key policy issue that confronts Government is not the provision of antiretroviral drugs, but the question of infant feeding. It points out that mixed breast and formula feeding by HIV-positive mothers will result in some babies being infected after birth, even if they receive nevirapine at birth. The HST points out that interfering with established infant feeding practices, and particularly introducing breastmilk substitutes, may pose a more deadly risk to many babies.
These children may be prone to malnutrition and some may die from diarrhoeal diseases. The issue of affordability and the cost implications of rolling out formula feeding throughout the whole country also need prompt consideration, and it broadens the debate from an HIV issue to a general public health issue. The challenge is not only to reduce HIV rates among the babies but ultimately to reduce the overall infant mortality and morbidity rates. We must find ways to avoid substituting one set of health risks - diarrhoeal diseases, malnutrition and infections - for another, namely HIV/Aids.
As the HST points out, there is no simple formula for this, but close monitoring of the situation through our sites will at least provide reliable information on which we can work.
The HST makes a whole series of recommendations for consideration by
provincial and national Government. It is regrettable but perhaps
understandable, in the current context, that only two have been
highlighted. These are the recommendations on expanding the present
research sites in a gradual and phased manner, proceeding at different
speeds in different provinces, and finding an immediate mechanism to
provide nevirapine, along with providing essential support services to
women already known to be HIV-positive who do not attend the research
sites. I know that some members of this House are looking for a simple
yes'' orno’’ answer from me and they will, for the present, be
disappointed.
I have tried, at all times, to indicate that decisions on the mother-to- child transmission programme are co-ordinated through Minmec, and that holds true for Government’s response to the HST recommendations that touch on fundamental policy directions.
We will continue to present progress reports on our 5-year strategic plan on HIV/Aids and sexually transmitted infections, including the progress we are making on the national PMTCT research sites. What I can say is that I feel assured that we are making good progress and that we have a very solid piece of research in front of us.
Its recommendations are both well rooted in the reality that the researchers have witnessed at the South African sites, and informed by international experience. I can assure the House that aspects of the report that relate to policy development will be considered with the seriousness they demand.
There are many recommendations, however, that relate to implementation rather than top-level decision-making. I know that even as the public debate continues, various provinces have been acting on these findings and trying to strengthen the PMTCT programme in places where it is not meeting targets in terms of the quality of care, based on national norms and standards.
Particular attention is being given to management and co- ordination issues, but above all, we must provide avenues for women themselves to speak up on how they perceive the progress we are making in the implementation of this PMTCT programme and tell us how it should be shaped to adequately meet their needs.
In conclusion, I would appeal to members of this House, and the public at large, to read the full HST report.
One of the unfortunate aspects of the debate on mother-to-child transmission of HIV has been the tendency to depict research as a stumbling block to or an enemy of extended access to care. The HST report shows just how systematic information gathering can become the key to an effective programme. We do not want a mother-to-child transmission programme that does not deliver the goods - we want one that works. And different strands of research, each with different timescales, will continue to underpin our work, to enable us to review our policy from time to time. For me, as the Minister of Health, issues of public health policy are of paramount importance. Let me remind some of the members of this House that I am indeed a trained medical doctor, and an obstetrician gynaecologist, and I have specialised in public health. As such, I have to think about these issues before I can carefully advise my colleagues in Cabinet, including the President. [Interjections.]
Therefore, we will examine this report carefully and take whatever steps are appropriate to increase the coverage of HIV- positive women giving birth to healthy and HIV-negative children. We will develop national norms and standards to ensure that wherever this programme is provided, there is adequate health infrastructure, the service is staffed adequately, and that there are sufficient and sustainable resources.
We are also committed to see to it that for the women of this country, pregnancy and childbirth are not seen as illness but as part of their normal lives, and for those women who are HIV-positive, the ANC-led Government will see to it that they have an opportunity to live productive and loving lives in the company of their children, husbands, partners and families. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I just want to draw your attention to the fact that whilst this very important public statement was being made by the Minister of Health, she made reference to aspects of the broader policy that is raised in this report, and she referred in particular to the ABC approach … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Is that a point of order?
The MINISTER: Yes, it is, Madam Speaker, and I want to explain. The Minister referred to the ``Abstain! Be faithful! Use condoms!’’ approach. The response from her left was such that there was a lot of sniggering and laughter. I feel that is a matter of concern, and it should be put on record because it was, and it is, an important issue that is problematic … [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I think the Minister has made a valid point, and I think it is a matter of exchange of views and the emphasis on what is important, but this cannot really be regarded as a point of order.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, the hon the Minister said that it was a point of order and it was not. So, I assume this will be deducted from the ANC’s time.
An HON MEMBER: She knew it was not a point of order, she just lied. [Laughter.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, every week nearly twice as many people die in South Africa from Aids as those who died in the World Trade Centre in New York. Yet anyone looking for a sign from the Minister of Health that she has recognised the extent of this crisis will look in vain. Her stubborn refusal to extend the nevirapine project, even in the face of the report to which she refers, and the fact that there is no good reason to delay a phased expansion of PMTCT, is only the latest setback of her period in office, which has been a catalogue of tragedies.
Can the hon the Minister even begin to see how the potential of the PMTCT programme can act as an engine or catalyst for the improvement of the health system and primary health care system in general? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! May I please appeal to hon members to stop making those sounds. It is a matter on which the Speaker has repeatedly made appeals, and I would really appeal to hon members not to do it. [Interjections.]
Please continue, hon Kalyan.
Mrs S V KALYAN: The Minister’s failure to conceptualise the PMTCT programme in this way constitutes yet another missed opportunity and perhaps even undermines other essential areas of primary health care.
At every opportunity to do something proactive about the pandemic she has looked the other way. Several African countries are recognised for their successful response to HIV/Aids. South Africa, on the other hand, is infamous for doing as little as possible to save lives, despite having more money and capacity. It is hoped that the Minister notes the deficits in respect of the human infrastructure as presented in the report. Instead of suspending doctors, she should focus on training counsellors and putting a universal policy in place.
Where does South Africa stand in respect of the drug debate? The Minister refuses to negotiate for drug discounts and will not declare a health emergency, which would allow us to bypass patent laws and manufacture our own generic drugs. Instead, millions of rands of public money was spend on fighting a court case, to allow South Africa to import cheaper drugs manufactured elsewhere. But so far not a single drug has entered the country.
The report says that no significant adverse effects have been recognised in either mothers or babies taking a single dose of nevirapine as part of the PMTCT regimen. Our Minister of Health is safe in the knowledge that her private medical scheme will protect her if she is ever a victim of sexual assault. What of the rape survivors who look to the state for protection? Does she care? I think not, because she continues to stall any call for antiretroviral medication. [Interjections.]
Not only does the Minister want to bury her own head in the sand, she wants to encourage the rest of the country to join her in this denial, as evidenced by her attempt to bury a report on mortality statistics released by the MRC last year. The Minister of Health has no sense of urgency or conviction around HIV/Aids. She is content to drown herself with research. In fact, while the 18 test sites referred to in the report were commissioned in 2000, some sites were still not up and running in 2001. And, in fact, nationally defined data for such research was only finalised in December 2001.
The report suggests that the Minister recognise the moral and political imperative of PMTCT and what it offers South Africa to redress the unacceptable inequalities in our system. If she fails to recognise this, then it is indeed time for the Minister of Health to accept that she is not up to the challenge of providing a better life for all, and in the interest of good health in South Africa she should step down. [Interjections.] There is a saying that when one is in a hole, one should stop digging. The Minister should stop digging and making that hole bigger. [Applause.]
Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: As the hon Kalyan took the podium, Mr Andrew shouted to Minister Fraser-Moleketi that she was lying. I do not think that was parliamentary.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew, would you please withdraw that.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, may I address you, please?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! You would like to address me on what?
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, if you said to the Minister that she was lying …
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, I would like to address you. The Minister had over two minutes to talk on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member Andrew, I do not want to argue with you. I would like you to withdraw the unparliamentary words that you used in the House.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, which unparliamentary words?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That another member is lying, because you know that it is unparliamentary.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, was it not a lie?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew! [Interjections.] Order! Hon Andrew, I would like you to withdraw your words that the hon member was lying.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, she was deliberately misleading the House and I withdraw that … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, I would like you to withdraw the words. That is what I am asking you to do, to withdraw that.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, I am saying she is deliberately misleading the House. I withdraw the word ``lie’’. [Interjections.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, on a different point of order: Just before this point of order was taken now, there were some more of those odd noises emanating from that side of the House there. [Interjections.] And that, I submit, was in deliberate defiance of the Chair. You had ruled not five minutes earlier that people should not make noises like that and in deliberate defiance of the Chair it was done again. And we on this side of the House know what it is aimed at. It is sexist and racist, and we will not put up with it, and I want to suggest that the Chair should not put up with it either.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Thank you for the advice, hon member.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I would like to ask you what action you are planning to take against the hon the Minister for the Public Service and Administration. Just before the hon Kalyan spoke, she rose and said that she was rising on a point of order. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Andrew! [Interjections.]
Mr K M ANDREW: May I address you on the point of order? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew, do not tell me the history, because I was also here. We were all here and we all heard her. I did point out to her that it was not a point of order. We do that all the time to hon members who rise up and say that they are rising on a point of order. That is the end of the matter. [Interjections.] Hon member, I would like you to take your seat, because I would like to proceed … [Interjections.]
Mr K M ANDREW: I would like to take a point of order … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew, I am not debating that issue with you here and now. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Hon Baloyi, please take the podium.
Dr O S B BALOYI: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members, I am certainly not rising on a point of order. [Interjections.]
Allow me to open my statements with comments that were made by Mr Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General, in November 2001. These are the urgent needs that have been identified with regard to HIV/Aids: prevention of the further spread of the virus is important; arrest of mother-to-child transmission is vital; provision of care and treatment for all infected persons is a must; advancement of scientific research for a vaccine and a cure are the things that need to be addressed; and there must be protection of those whom the disease has rendered most vulnerable. Those were the key guidelines he outlined that the world needs to begin to address with urgency.
He further indicated that it was dangerous to assume that approaches that had worked in the developed countries would also work with success in developing countries. Developing countries, he said, if properly enabled, can erect internal barriers to the pandemic. Those were the challenges that he put on the table.
We need to accept that the current concepts for combating HIV/Aids in South Africa, which is a developing country, are inadequate. We need, further, to accept that the attempts made thus far to contain the spread of HIV/Aids have failed us. The case in point today is mother-to-child transmission.
All segments of South Africa, all segments of our society, are affected by HIV/Aids. Unlike in developed countries, where groups of highly educated people have means to procure treatment in the case of mother-to-child transmission, we here in South Africa are faced with the situation where the bulk of the people have great difficulty in understanding the disease, which runs counter to the way they believe traditionally and otherwise.
Further, mothers who are affected cannot acquire treatment even if they wanted to, because of their state of poverty. They certainly cannot wait for a rigid approach to meet certain rules that can actually violate relevant ethical goals and standards. We are faced in our country with a situation which is urgent. The life span for HIV/Aids-affected individuals is going to be very short. I cannot even talk about the life span of the people we are talking about, the children in utero.
We have a window period of only the gestational period. For those who do not know, it happens to be only nine months, and no more. That is the window period within which we must make decisions.
Much as I accept and acknowledge that the mother-to-child transmission issue is not a question of just providing the women with the pill and the babies with a few drops of nevirapine, the fact is that we need to ask ourselves a few questions.
I have a feeling that we cannot wait for the reduction of poverty before we deal with HIV/Aids. Something must be done now. We cannot wait for the cultural and behavioural changes before we do something decisive.
We cannot wait for improved education before we initiate the things that will make a difference with HIV/Aids. Indeed, we cannot wait for the empowerment of women before we can let them have the treatment. The IFP feels that immediate treatment of pregnant mothers to prevent mother-to- child transmission must take place. [Applause.]
Mr A C NEL: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order: Before Mr Andrew turned his back on you and left the House, he had been ordered to withdraw the word ``lying’’. To my mind he never did. [Interjections.] He then added the words … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Can we have some order, hon members!
Mr A C NEL: He then added the words ``deliberately misleading’’, which I submit are unparliamentary and he should withdraw them.
Furthermore, he showed extreme contempt to both the Chair of this House, as well as the House as a whole, by the manner in which he stood up, turned his back on you and left the House. I submit that he should be taken to task for that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, on the matter of the words that he used, thank you for pointing that out. I will examine the Hansard and I will come with a ruling.
Dr S J GOUS: Mev die Speaker, niemand kan seker die publiek kwalik neem as hulle hierdie onderwerp heeltemal verwarrend vind nie. Dit is nou maar eenmaal ‘n kenmerk van ons politici dat ons eenvoudige sake heeltemal kan vertroebel, en ingewikkelde sake heeltemal onverstaanbaar kan maak.
Feit is, ons neem nie die totale prentjie in ag wanneer ons hierdie sake debatteer nie. Dit is ‘n verlammende debat wat besig is om in sirkels te gaan en ons te frustreer. Hierdie debat vandag gaan oor een ding, en dit is antiretrovirale middels in die gebruik van moeder-na-kind voorkoming. Dit is waaroor ons praat, oor niks anders nie. Om die waarheid te sê, dit is ‘n baie klein onderafdeling van die totale prentjie. Dit moet ons net eers verstaan.
As ons die algehele respons van ons land op Vigs in ag neem - en dit sluit die gebruik van antiretrovirale middels uit - dan is dit tog waar dat ons een van die beste response in die wêreld het, en definitief die beste in Afrika. Maar dit is duidelik dat mense nog nie verstaan waaroor ons presies baklei nie. Op die oomblik moet ons duidelik probeer onderskei tussen die gebruik van antiretrovirale middels in die voorkoming en in die behandeling van die siekte. In die voorkoming van Vigs gebruik ons een middel, een dosering, en volstaan daarmee. In die behandeling van Vigs gebruik ons ‘n hele aantal middels, hoë doserings, vir ‘n lang tyd. Ons moet net verstaan vandag praat ons oor die behandeling en die voorkomende aspekte van moeder- tot-kind oordrag.
In hierdie verslag van die Health Systems Trust is daar positiewe en negatiewe aspekte. Die positiewe aspekte is dat daar bevind is dat daar geen belemmering is op die sistematiese, volhoubare en gefaseerde uitrol van moeder-na-kind voorkomingsprogramme nie. Daar is geen probleem met toksisiteit en newe-effekte nie, en dit is tog feitlik so as ‘n mens net een dosering van ‘n middel gee, kan ‘n mens verwag dat hierdie aspekte baie laag gaan wees. Weerstand kom wel voor, maar dit is nie ‘n probleem in hierdie omstandighede nie, want ‘n mens gaan dit net een maal gebruik, en die weerstand verdwyn in elk geval na ses maande. Wanneer ‘n mens opvolg- antiretrovirale behandeling gee, gebruik ‘n mens dit in multimiddels, nie net een nie, en nevirapien word ook baie selde onder hierdie omstandighede gebruik.
Die negatiewe aspekte van hierdie verslag gaan oor kapasiteit, infrastruktuur en die verskil tussen provinsies, wat beskryf word as die verskil tussen twee lande. Die skrywers merk op dat hierdie tekortkomings nie ‘n verskoning behoort te wees nie, en navorsing behoort ook nie ‘n verskoning te wees vir die uitrol nie. Laat ons net ‘n paar waarskuwings in ag neem. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Dr S J GOUS: Madam Speaker, one can probably not blame the public if they find this topic completely confusing. It is a characteristic of politicians that we can completely obscure simple matters and make complicated matters completely incomprehensible.
The fact is, we do not take the entire picture into account when we debate these matters. This is a paralysing debate which is going round in circles and frustrating us. This debate today is about one thing, and that is antiretroviral measures used in mother-to-child prevention. That is what we are talking about, nothing else. To tell the truth, it is a very small subsection of the total picture. We must just first understand that.
If we take into account the overall response of our country to Aids - and this excludes the use of antiretroviral measures - then it is indeed true that we have one of the best responses in the world, and definitely the best in Africa. But it is clear that people still do not understand precisely what we are arguing about. At the moment we must try to distinguish clearly between the use of antiretroviral measures in the prevention and in the treatment of the illness. In the prevention of Aids we use one measure, one dose, and that is sufficient. In the treatment of Aids we use quite a number of measures, high dosages, for a long time. We must just understand that today we are talking about the treatment and the preventative aspects of mother-to-child transmission.
There are positive and negative aspects in this report by the Health Systems Trust. The positive aspect is that it has been found that there is no impediment to the systematic, sustainable and phased roll-out of mother- to-child preventative programmes. There is no problem with regard to toxicity and side effects, and it will surely really be the case that when one only gives one dosage of a remedy, one can expect that these aspects are going to be very low. Resistance does indeed occur, but it is not a problem in these circumstances, because one is only going to use it once, and in any case the resistance disappears after six months. When one gives follow-up antiretroviral treatment, one uses it in multiple measures, not only one, and nevirapine is also used very seldom under these circumstances.
The negative aspects of this report deal with capacity, infrastructure and the difference between provinces, which is described as the difference between two countries. The authors note that these shortcomings should not be an excuse, and research should not be an excuse for the roll-out. Let us just take a few warnings into consideration.]
Misunderstandings and half-truths are being added to the politicisation of what should be a public health issue. The process has been hijacked by political controversies and public anger. Prevention of mother-to-child transmission must now be driven by premiers and politicians instead of programme managers at the provincial sites. Let that be a warning to all of us. [Applause.]
Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, HIV/Aids is a thorny issue that need not be debated more than this. It has been debated, and people are dying. The Government should stop delaying HIV/Aids treatment by refusing to accept scientific findings that nevirapine prevents the chances of mother-to-child transmission. The time has come for the Government to listen to experts, make antiretroviral drugs available to all people living with HIV/Aids and unite with all South Africans in their fight against this dreadful disease.
The Government is also called upon to withdraw its appeal against the decision of the Transvaal Provincial Division that nevirapine be made available to all pregnant women for the prevention of mother-to-child transmission.
Children are dying in their thousands while politicians are busy debating this issue. I think it is now time that the ANC Government should reconsider their policy on this issue of HIV/Aids and see to it that pregnant women get nevirapine as the necessary medicine to prevent children from being infected.
Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, although the report details difficulties around expanding services to prevent mother-to- child transmission, it confirms that there are no good reasons to delay. The report suggests that phased expansion in provinces due to differences in capacity should combine with the immediate provision of nevirapine to HIV-positive pregnant women. The report also notes that no significant side effects have been recognised in mothers or babies taking single-dose nevirapine, while Government has been like a stuck record over lack of capacity, over toxins, costs and breast-feeding, which have all been broadly and soundly refuted. Reports indicate that HIV transmission through breast-feeding is less than 6%, which means that out of every 100 babies who are breast-fed, only six would be in danger of possible infection.
The ACDP is disappointed by Government’s stiff-necked attitude over this issue, but not surprised as the policy is in line with their pro-death policy for unborn babies, which sets the precedent in this country for children to be valued less the younger they are.
Now the Minister suggested that every South African should abstain from sex. Is this a new population control method? Opposition parties thought this was a mistake and laughed. I, on the other hand, am not so sure since I note that the ANC policies are very much aimed at population control.
Dr M S MOGOBA: Madam Speaker, the people of our country, like people who are drowning, look appealingly to this House for salvation. The PAC has fought for over three years to get the Government to fight the HIV/Aids epidemic with every weapon at its disposal. The denial of the seriousness of the epidemic from the Government has been bordering on the criminal, and tens of thousands of lives have been lost that could have been saved.
Our warrior doctor, Dr Costa Gazi, has been vilified and threatened for persistently and courageously calling for sanity to prevail. Like Galileo of old, he said repeatedly: `` And yet it turns to those who were denying that the earth revolves around the sun.’’
We demand that antiretroviral drugs be manufactured locally under Government licence as part of a national emergency. Patent rights cannot be more important than the lives of our people. The destruction caused by HIV/Aids must be halted and no more time must be spent on petty debates.
We appreciate the explanation given by the Minister, but it only emphasises that this is a very complex debate which should be left to scientists and academics and that the pragmatic side of it should really be attended to speedily. [Time expired.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, Aids needs no introduction. We all know it is a killer with no cure, only prevention. This disease has made itself present globally, and though many carelessly believe that their irresponsible habits will not get them infected, what guarantee is there besides luck?
Aids has affected Africa profoundly. It is causing a social and economic breakdown as it diminishes our workforce. Aids is crippling us by killing our people.
Our Government has broadened sex education, with the object to curtail the problem of Aids. Yet, many fail to see the seriousness of the situation. We are working hard at inspiring prevention from infection. Unless the disease finds itself checked, we are faced with the predicament of pregnant HIV- positive mothers passing on the disease to their babies.
We are also faced with the issue of nevirapine. The MF intensely feels that the child at risk is the priority in this situation, and that we are responsible for ensuring the safety and wellbeing of these innocent babies. If the supply of nevirapine is the means to ensuring this, then it should be provided.
We are here to ensure the proper running and protection of our country and its people. [Applause.]
Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, with regard to the hon the Minister’s advice of total abstinence, I will try, but I have got my doubts.
Hierdie debat het ‘n hele tyd gelede ontstaan en daar is ‘n bepaalde standpunt ingeneem deur die regering, veral deur President Mbeki, dat hierdie middele nie verskaf sal word nie. Intussen het baie dinge gebeur. Nog navorsing is gedoen. Daar was ‘n hofuitspraak wat die regering verplig het om dit te doen. Die premiers van drie provinsies het besluit om hierdie middele wel te verskaf. Wat het egter gebeur? ‘n Dokter wat dit in sy hospitaal verskaf, word afgedank.
Vandag kry ons hierdie verslag van die HST. Dit is wel in Engels, maar dit
is vir my duidelik dat die verslag ten gunste is van die toediening en
beskikbaarstel van nevirapien om oordrag te voorkom. Ons het ‘n duidelike
ja'' verwag en steeds lyk dit of die Minister terugkrabbel. Gaan dit
werklik om die lewe en dood van hulle vir wie ons verantwoordelik is? Of
word hier 'n spel gespeel om verleentheid te bespaar, aangesien ons te
trots is om ons trots in die sak te steek en te sê:Dit was ‘n fout. Die
goed moes lankal bekend gestel word.’’ Ons vra dat dit onvoorwaardelik
beskikbaar gestel word in alle staatshospitale. (Translation of Afrikaans
paragraphs follows.)
[This debate originated some time ago and a specific standpoint was taken by the Government, especially by President Mbeki, that these medicines would not be provided. In the meantime many things have happened. More research has been done. There has been a court verdict which compelled the Government to do this. The premiers of three provinces decided that they would, in fact, provide these medicines. However, what happened? A doctor who provided it in his hospital was dismissed.
Today we have received this report from the HST. It is, in fact, in
English, but to me it is quite clear that the report is in favour of the
administering and provision of nevirapine to prevent transmission. We
expected an emphatic yes'' and yet it would seem as though the Minister
is backtracking. Is this really about the life and death of those for whom
we are responsible? Or is a game being played to save embarrassment since
we are too proud to swallow our pride and say:This was a mistake. These
medicines should have been made available a long time ago.’’ We ask that
the medicine be made available unconditionally in all state hospitals.]
Mrs M M MALUMISE: Madam Speaker, we congratulate the Minister and MECs for having the foresight to implement the MTCT programme, initially through a number of learning sites. The HST report indicates that this was the right approach to have taken, and that as a result many valuable lessons have been learned - lessons which can be applied to ensure that all women will receive the best that the Government can offer to prevent the transmission of HIV from mother to child. But more importantly, these lessons will ensure that MTCT services will be implemented in a way that is sustainable, effective and equitable.
This report raised important concerns about postnatal infant feeding - an issue that has received little attention or interest from the media, or, indeed, from any other group or organisation that has been vocal on the MTCT issue. In this regard, we have to convey to the House that the Government has been vindicated in its decision to await the findings of the evaluation, despite coming under heavy pressure to do otherwise.
Regarding this report from the HST, I would like to stress that it was not only commissioned by Government, but also released publicly by Government without delay. Government is now in a position to make clear and important decisions about the future of the programme, based on these recommendations.
I want to express our thanks to the hundreds of front-line health workers who have succeeded in making the MTCT programme accessible to over 6 000 women in nine provinces. This has been no mean feat.
It is imperative that we define more clearly the boundary between the prerogative of elected politicians to define and influence health policy, and the prerogative of senior health officials who are also charged with the responsibility of defining policy, as well as implementing it. It has appeared at times as if the role of public health professionals and technical experts has been undermined by unhealthy politicking on health - a phenomenon that only serves to demoralise our community health workers.
I would like to urge the Minister and the MECs to prioritise the following two recommendations emanating from the report. Firstly, each province should develop a coherent, credible plan to gradually expand the MTCT programme in a phased manner, and in a way that addresses the lack of health care infrastructure.
The HST report states clearly that the huge disparities in health care between and within provinces cannot be divorced from the issue of expanding MTCT services, but states that the lack of health care infrastructure should not be seen as a reason for not expanding the services.
Secondly, a national commission of experts from the three fields of HIV, nutrition and child health should be convened as a matter of urgency to discuss issues about infant feeding and postnatal HIV transmission.
Finally, I believe that with a clear recommendation emanating from the HST evaluation the Government has an opportunity to come together around the issues related to HIV and Aids. There has been far too much polarisation, conflict and confrontation at a time when we desperately need to be pulling together. All of us in this House and all South Africans want the same thing - a healthy and an equitable society devoid of unnecessary and avoidable suffering and death. [Applause.]
BASIC CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Order disposed of without debate.
Report adopted and Bill agreed to.
LABOUR RELATIONS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Order disposed of without debate.
Report adopted and Bill agreed to.
The House adjourned at 18:07. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 1 MARCH 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
submitted the Wetsontwerp op die Internasionale Strafhof [W 42 -
2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the
Chairperson on 1 March 2002. This is the official translation of
the International Criminal Court Bill [B 42 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National Assembly
by the Minister on 20 August 2001. National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
The following Private Members' Legislative Proposals were withdrawn on
27 February 2002:
(i) Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Amendment Bill
(Adv H C Schmidt).
(ii) Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Amendment Bill
(Mr F Beukman).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
The Financial and Fiscal Commission's Strategic Plan for 2002-2003.
MONDAY, 4 MARCH 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 1 March 2002 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bill as a section 75
Bill:
(i) Reinstatement of Enrolment of Certain Legal Practitioners
Bill [B 6 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Constitutional Development:
Proposed Regulations made in terms of the Promotion of Access to
Information Act, 2000, submitted to Parliament in terms of section
92(2) of the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000 (Act No
2 of 2000).
(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Water Affairs and Forestry:
Report and Financial Statements of the Sedibeng Water Board for
2000-2001.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
Committee on Finance for information:
(a) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Reconstruction and Development Programme Fund for 1997-
98 [RP 190-2001].
(b) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Reconstruction and Development Programme Fund for 1998-
99 [RP 187-2001].
(c) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Reconstruction and Development Programme Fund for 1999-
2000 [RP 188-2001].
(d) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Reconstruction and Development Programme Fund for 2000-
2001 [RP 189-2001].
TUESDAY, 5 MARCH 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of
Communications in the National Assembly on 5 March 2002 and
referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification
in terms of Joint Rule 160:
(i) Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill [B 8 -
2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Bill and prior notice of
its introduction published in Government Gazette No 23195 of 1
March 2002.]
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Communications of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
working days.
(2) On 5 March 2002 the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM), in terms of
Joint Rule 160, classified the following Bill, which was
introduced as a section 76 Bill, as a section 75 Bill:
(i) Disestablishment of South African Housing Trust Limited
Bill [B 3 - 2002].
In terms of Joint Rule 160(4), the JTM finds that the Bill:
(a) is not a section 76 Bill;
(b) includes no provision to which the procedure prescribed in
section 76 of the Constitution applies;
(c) is in breach of section 73(3) of the Constitution in that
it was incorrectly introduced in the wrong House; and
(d) is thus constitutionally out of order.
In terms of Joint Rule 160(6) the Bill is constitutionally out of
order. According to Joint Rule 162 the Bill may not be proceeded
with, but may be re-introduced in the correct House.
(3) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Housing in
the National Assembly on 5 March 2002:
(i) Disestablishment of South African Housing Trust Limited
Bill [B 3 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory
summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
in Government Gazette No 22728 of 5 October 2001].
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Housing
of the National Assembly.
NOTE: On 14 February 2002, at the request of the Minister of
Housing, this Bill was introduced as a section 76 Bill in the
National Council of Provinces by the Select Committee on
Public Services. As the Bill has since been classified by the
Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) as a section 75 Bill (see p in
the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports of today, 5
March 2002), it cannot be proceeded with in the National
Council of Provinces.
As the Bill introduced today has not been printed again, the
information relating to the House of introduction, person in
charge and classification of the Bill, as reflected on its
front page, is incorrect. The Bill is in fact a section 75
Bill introduced in the National Assembly by the Minister of
Housing.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
(1) Proclamation No 6 of 2002 published in the Government Gazette No
23078 dated 31 January 2002, Commencement of section 1, Chapter 1
sections 2 to 16, Chapter 2 sections 17 to 20 and Chapter 5
sections 72 to 82 exception section 79 of the Financial
Intelligence Centre Act, 2001, made in terms of section 82 of the
Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2001 (Act No 38 of 2001).
(2) Government Notice No R.100 published in the Government Gazette
No 23080 dated 1 February 2002, Amendment of prescribed fees, made
in terms of section 36 of the Pension Funds Act, 1956 (Act No 24
of 1956).
(3) Government Notice No 23105 published in the Government Gazette
No 23105 dated 15 February 2002, Amendment of regulations under
the Long-Term Insurance Act, 1998, made in terms of section 72
read with section 49 of the Long-Term Insurance Act, 1998 (Act No
52 of 1998).
- The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:
Report and Financial Statements of the Namaqua Water Board for 2000-
2001.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs on the Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions Amendment Bill [B 66B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 1 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs, having considered the Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions Amendment Bill [B 66B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 27), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 66C - 2001].
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Labour on the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill [B 70B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 5 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Labour, having considered the Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill [B 70B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 129), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 70C - 2001].
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Labour on the Labour Relations Amendment Bill [B 77B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 5 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Labour, having considered the Labour Relations Amendment Bill [B 77B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 129), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 77C - 2001].
Report to be considered.
WEDNESDAY, 6 MARCH 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
Dr G G Woods has resigned as chairperson of the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts with effect from 1 March 2002.
- The Speaker:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 6 March 2002: To be
submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Basic Conditions of Employment Amendment Bill [B 70D -
2001] (National Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Labour Relations Amendment Bill [B 77D - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Cross-
Border Road Transport Agency for 1999-2000 [RP 89-2001].