MONDAY, 24 JUNE 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:03.

The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

Mr S A MSHUDULU: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the DP supported the introduction of the legislation that
       allows politicians to cross to other political parties without
       losing their seats in all tiers of legislatures; and


   (b)  the leader of the DA is now calling for fresh elections in the
       Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, having realised that the DP/DA
       will now lose members to the ANC;

(2) believes that this U-turn and inconsistency of the DA about this legislation reflects the political opportunism of the DP/DA and its leader, the hon Tony Leon; and

(3) calls on the DP/DA to adhere to basic political principles and not to use the laws of the country for political expediency.

[Applause.]

Mr K M ANDREW: Mr Chairman, on behalf of the DP - we speak on behalf of the DA - I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That this House -

(1) notes with interest that Marthinus van Schalkwyk’s first action as Western Cape Premier was to appoint his friends and cronies to civil- service jobs at salaries ranging from up to R400 000 per annum;

(2) recognises that this will transfer to the taxpayers’ account over R3 million of the National Party’s expenses;

(3) notes further that the ANC/New NP intend increasing the number of Cape Town subcouncils and ward committees at a cost of almost R40 million per year to the ratepayers; and

(4) therefore resolves that this plundering of the public purse should not be tolerated and requests that elections be held to allow the voters to decide their own future.

[Interjections.] [Applause.] Mr J H SLABBERT: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) received with astonishment the news that a 28-year-old man, Vernon Armugga from Verulam, KwaZulu-Natal, has been accused of ripping off the Road Accident Fund to the tune of more than R10 million;

(2) is dumbfounded that this man touted 600 fake claims for various attorneys;

(3) commends the KwaZulu-Natal police task team for arresting this alleged fraudster;

(4) continues to be puzzled at the ease with which people and syndicates defraud this noble service aimed at alleviating emotional and economic trauma suffered by road accident victims; and

(5) requests both the Department of Transport and of Justice and Constitutional Development to introduce legislation that will enable the criminal justice system to strike off the roll all attorneys involving themselves in scams that are aimed at defrauding the fund.

Mr G D SCHNEEMANN: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the ANC-led Metropolitan Council of Johannesburg resolved on 20 June 2002 to extend free basic municipal services on application from 1 July to the city’s poor, unemployed, orphans and HIV/Aids patients;

(2) believes that this reflects the commitment of the ANC to improve service delivery in all tiers of government and to build a better life for all our people; and

(3) welcomes the move by the Metropolitan Council of Johannesburg to provide free services to the poorest of the poor.

[Applause.]

Mr I J PRETORIUS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  Belinda Scott, a former DP KwaZulu-Natal Chief Whip, has joined
       the list of senior disillusioned DP/DA members by defecting to
       the ANC;


   (b)  her move was, according to her, motivated by -


       (i)   the absence of a principled opposition;


      (ii)    her desire to contribute to the transformation of society
                and the betterment of the country, clearly something
                that was not possible in the DA;


     (iii)   the hon Leon's frenetic scramble for power;


       (iv)  the DA's greed and cheap opportunism - at the expense of
                KwaZulu-Natal and the country; and


      (v)     the fact that the DA had abandoned all the characteristics
                of the DP, which had sought to serve as a principled
                opposition in South Africa; and

(2) believes that the list of disillusioned DP/DA members will continue to grow because the DP/DA has lost its credibility as an effective and principled opposition.

[Applause.]

Mr S ABRAM: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that when President Mbeki and other African leaders meet with G8 leaders in Canada on Wednesday, Nepad will be facing a mammoth challenge in securing commitments and we wish the leaders well in their deliberations;

(2) further notes that the success of Nepad will be determined by the extent to which African leaders commit themselves to and ensure that good governance is paramount and that the abuse of power is dealt with demonstrably; and

(3) expresses concern that the attainment of these goals will be hampered by evictions from Zimbabwean farms due to start today, which will detrimentally affect the farmers, but will also render an estimated 232 000 farm workers jobless, homeless, futureless, foodless and hopeless.

Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes reports that the hon Cassie Aucamp and Danie Schutte have been elected to the leadership positions of the New National Action, a new political party that will cater specifically for the needs of South Africa’s former ruling white minority;

(2) believes that the establishment of this ``race-based’’ party does not contribute positively to the spirit of national reconciliation and national unity that the Government and the people of South Africa are working very hard to achieve;and

(3) calls on all members of this party and its leadership to-

   (a)  work towards building a new nation and fostering national
       reconciliation amongst our people; and;


   (b)  join forces with the ANC and President Thabo Mbeki to work hard
       to fight tribalism and racism in our country.

[Applause.]

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, I give notice on behalf of the ACDP that I shall move at the next sitting of the House the following motion:

That the House -

(1) notes with interest the lawsuit by US attorney Ed Fagan against three Swiss banks on behalf of the victims of apartheid;

(2) further notes that the nature of the lawsuit is about the alleged billions the banks loaned to the previous SA Government;

(3) also notes the comment from South Africa’s ambassador to Switzerland that the government distances itself from the lawsuit;

(4) debates the merit or demerits of the lawsuit; and

(5) makes a statement on whether it supports this type of class action.

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that the fluidity of politics in the country as a result of the piece of legislation that allows for the on-off loss and retention of membership will lead to polarisation among the people of South Africa;

(2) further notes that the coming into being of another fringe conservative party for whites only, the National Action, over the weekend will make the political climate even more volatile; and

(3) appeals to citizens of this country to -

   (a)  exercise restraint while facing the political problems squarely
       in the face; and


   (b)  desist from the ineffective yet costly exercise of registering
       new political parties at every turn while national issues such
       as poor health, abuse of children, crime, moral degeneration and
       others are on the increase by the day.

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) notes that the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk, the leader of the New National Party, was sworn in as premier of the province of Western Cape on Friday, 21 June 2002;

(2) congratulates the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk on his new assignment; and

(3) expresses its confidence in the ANC/New NP partnership, that it will bring political stability, development and improvement of quality of life for all the people of the Western Cape.

[Applause.] [Interjections.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DP and the DA:

That the House -

(1) notes the Zimbabwean government’s order to certain commercial farmers that they cease farming operations;

(2) further notes that -

   (a)  cereal production in Zimbabwea has collapsed by 67% since
       President Mugabe began his reign of terror;


   (b)  about 6 million people in Zimbabwe are facing starvation,
       according to the International Red Cross/Red Crescent; and


   (c)  232 000 farmworkers will lose their jobs today if the farmers
       obey the government; and

(3) therefore calls on President Mbeki to recognise that the disastrous conduct and irresponsible actions of the Mugabe regime risk undermining Nepad ahead of the G8 meeting in Canada.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, on a point of order: When the hon Mr Seremane stood up, somebody sitting over there referred to him as ``baas boy’’. I would like to establish who that came from and may that hon member withdraw that comment. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, order! Did anybody refer to the hon Seremane as ``baas boy’’? Please let us maintain particular decorum in the House and not call each other names. It does disrupt the proceedings of the House. Can we please observe the rules of the House.

Mr W J SEREMANE: Chairperson, I was reacting to the point of Order, but I would not mind giving an invitation of a hot fierce debate to whoever said that. I am quite willing to face them. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON: The hon Seremane, I think we have ruled and I think there is agreement that we will observe the rules. Prince N E ZULU: Chair, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting of Parliament:

That the House -

(1) notes with grief that 32 people died of suffocation in Northern Tanzania after an air compressor failed to oxygenate in one of the mine shafts;

(2) notes with shock that recovering the bodies was a daunting task due to the lack of equipment to effect meaningful rescue operations;

(3) condemns the slow pace at which technology and mine safety regulations were being developed in that part of the world; and

(4) calls on Africa to take giant steps in formulating policies that guard against the loss of life and limbs.

Miss M N BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  President Thabo Mbeki revealed on 16 June 2002 that a site has
       been set aside for a park to commemorate the country's cultural,
       natural and political history; and


   (b)  the Freedom Park will be built at Salvokop next to the
       Voortrekker Monument in Pretoria and will cost about R350
       million;

(2) believes that this park will educate future generations about the history of South Africa and its people and will contribute positively to building one nation with diverse cultures; and

(3) welcomes the launch of the Freedom Park, as it expresses the will of the government and the people of South Africa to build a united nation.

[Applause.]

Mr J SCHIPPERS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock the brutal killing of five petrol attendants at a petrol station in Grassy Park last night;

(2) further notes that it appears that these men have lost their lives for a mere R1 000;

(3) expresses shock and outrage that human life has become so cheap in South Africa;

(4) welcomes the fact that the Western Cape Minister of Community Safety, Mr Leonard Ramatlakane, already visited the scene this morning and said ``perpetrators of this massacre must be removed from the community’’; and

(5) calls on -

   (a)  petrol stations to ensure the safety of their petrol attendants,
       especially during the night; and


   (b)  the community to assist the police in the murder investigation.

[Applause.]

                    DEATH OF PIET (WESKUS) MARAIS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Me ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Huis - (1) kennis neem -

   (a)  van die dood van Piet (Weskus) Marais, wat as openbare
       verteenwoordiger drie dekades lank sy land gedien het;


   (b)  dat wyle Piet Weskus, wesenlik 'n praktiese en verligte
       politikus, 'n stem in die wildernis was binne die Nasionale
       Party oor kleurkwessies, maar dat hy nietemin volhard het; en


   (c)  dat hy, ten spyte van vernedering aan die hand van NP-leiers van
       die tyd, alles in die stryd gewerp het om gesindhede oor
       kleurkwessies te help verander en uitgesproke was oor die
       apartheid-gebaseerde dubbeldorppatroon in veral die Wes-Kaap; en


 2) sy innigste simpatie en meegevoel met die Marais-gesin uitspreek met
    hul swaar en onherstelbare verlies, en dat God die Almagtige hul mag
    bystaan in hierdie tyd van beproewing. (Translation of Afrikaans without motion follows.)

[Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Chairperson, I move without notice.

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the death of Piet (Weskus) Marais, who served his country as
       public representative for three decades;


   (b)  that the late Piet Weskus, essentially a practical and
       ``verligte'' politician, was a voice calling in the wilderness
       within the National Party regarding colour questions, but that
       he nonetheless persevered; and


   (c)  that he, despite his humiliation at the hands of NP leaders of
       the time, did all he could to help change attitudes towards
       questions of colour, and was outspoken over the apartheid-based
       pattern of double towns in especially the Western Cape; and

(2) expresses its sincerest sympathy and condolences to the Marais family at their great and irreparable loss, and that God Almighty may succour them in this time of trial.]

Agreed to.

EXTENSION OF DATE FOR AD HOC COMMITTEE ON APPOINTMENT OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper:

That, notwithstanding the resolution adopted on 7 May 2002, the date by which the Ad Hoc Committee on Appointment of Public Protector must complete its task be extended from 21 June 2002 to 8 August 2002.

Agreed to.

  CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF TASK GROUP ON SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN

Mr E (Cassim) SALOOJEE: Mr Chairperson and hon members, all of South Africa was shocked and outraged by the spate of child rapes that were reported in our country towards the end of last year. We were, all of us, in agreement that something had to be done very urgently to improve our ability to fight this scourge. There were even very strong calls from organisations and individuals in civil society that suggested that Government did not care about children. Although there were, at that time, a number of highly publicised cases that seized our attention, the reality is that sexual abuse of children has been part of our lives for very many decades and it is still occurring.

Nineteen thousand seven hundred and fifty-five cases of rape and attempted rape of children under eighteen years were reported in 1996. The number of cases reported in 2000 had increased to 21 438, while the number of cases reported between January and September last year totalled almost 16 000. Those who work with survivors of abuse on a daily basis suggest that these statistics reflect only the tip of the iceberg. Therefore, we must consistently act against sexual abuse of children through appropriate measures and not only react when there is a public outcry about the abuse of children.

The public hearings that were held by the parliamentary Task Group on Sexual Abuse of Children in March were an important step in refocusing our attention on what we, as a society, and particularly as Government, should be doing to protect children from sexual abuse. The expectation arising from the public hearings is that the task group will make substantial recommendations to Government concerning the most critical areas of legislation, policy and services aimed at protecting children.

Our findings and recommendations are before the members today. One of the most important insights shared by many presenters is that sexual abuse occurs across all socioeconomic communities. It happens in both city and rural environments. We believe that there has been a considerable increase in the reporting of abuse because of a greater awareness of human rights and, in particular, children’s rights over the last decade. We must therefore caution against simplistic assumptions about the linear relationship between poverty and abuse, as voices from some corners would have us believe.

However, conditions of poverty and social disintegration make it more difficult to protect children effectively. A mother may, for example, be unable to report abuse because of her financial dependency on an abuser. Or, a child might be more vulnerable to sexual abuse because his or her family does not have access to childcare facilities while the parents are at work. Our efforts at reducing children’s vulnerability must therefore be closely related to the broader developmental programmes of different government departments.

We must have a clearly enunciated and integrated approach to sexual abuse that is shared by all government departments and service providers. The task group would therefore recommend that Government should develop a joint understanding for interdepartmental co-operation in protecting our children, and that this understanding should be spelt out in a national strategy. We believe that such an approach must be tackled as a matter of urgency, as it should underpin all our future efforts.

The intersectoral nature of the response required for the protection of children cannot be overemphasised. Let me start with the social development sector. The policies in the Department of Social Development very clearly have a preventive rather than a curative thrust. However, we need to reassess the manner in which preventive child and family welfare services are funded, and how that affects our department’s ability to provide services such as early childhood development services, parenting skills, support services and childcare services. Currently, professionals in government services struggle to cope with the workload expected of them. That leads to low morale and limits the scope of interventions.

We recognise the critical importance of the work of civil-society organisations in providing large portions of child and family welfare services. However, a number of these organisations have not moved significantly in the direction of a developmental approach to their work. A possible way to address this question is to increase government subsidies so that these organisations would be able to attract appropriately skilled professionals, or expand services into the preventive field. It is crucial that we finalise and implement a clear financing policy for such organisations because the work that is being done by the voluntary sector is seriously affected by the current difficulties in regard to funding.

Another issue that arises is whether those organisations of civil society that receive the bulk of government funding are effectively rooted in communities. We believe that the sector should interrogate its own commitment and progress with regard to real transformation and serving the needs of a small minority, and to being responsive to the development needs of the majority of our people.

The report before this House also makes a number of recommendations in relation to legislation. I want to highlight some of those. We have repeatedly pointed out that our legislation on children is inadequate. We expect that the SA Law Commission will present a draft Bill to the Department of Social Development by the end of June and that that historic new legislation will speak to the needs of all our children.

We want the new legislation on children to define sexual abuse as a particular form of abuse that requires a distinct response from Government. An area of concern in our discussion has been whether the legislation should contain positive obligations on government departments and service providers. It has been argued that an important step towards ensuring an integrated response from government agencies would be for new legislation to be explicit on the basic basket of preventive and protective services that Government needs to make available.

In relation to the question of reporting of abuse, we support the view that the obligation to report abuse should be located only in the children’s law. We also believe that it would not be feasible for the legislation to require all members of the public to report abuse, or be liable for prosecution should they fail to do so. We recommend that the new legislation should be clear about the responsibility of certain categories of professionals to report abuse or suspected abuse and the question of criminal liability in cases where someone in any of these categories does not report abuse immediately.

In addition, the question of protecting the identity of a child survivor is extremely important. In a number of cases highlighted in the press recently, the identity of survivors has been repeatedly revealed. We must ensure that our legislation is very clear and that members of the media are not allowed, under any circumstances, to reveal a survivor’s identity. The provisions of the Criminal Procedure Act may need to be strengthened. But, we believe that the children’s statutes must also spell out the criminal liability and heavy sentences that would be incurred, should this principle be breached.

Allow me to reflect now on some of the responsibilities of other government departments in protecting children. Research has suggested that about one- third of all instances of sexual abuse occur within the school and that makes the school a primary area of intervention. Policy and legislation in the Department of Education make it possible, for example, for the SA Council of Educators to bar any teacher from the profession should they be found guilty of sexual abuse of a child, whether the child has consented or not. We want to commend the council for having already taken steps to deregister teachers found guilty of abuse. We urge the council to continue to use this legislation effectively to ensure that we make a drastic impact on abuse in the education system.

We welcome programmes by the Department of Safety and Security to roll out facilities that are responsive to the needs of child survivors of sexual abuse at police stations across the country. We would like to encourage the department to continue to strengthen their programmes in this regard. In addition, we will ask that the Department of Safety and Security ensures that the specialised family-violence, child-protection and sexual-offences units are adequately resourced and supported to ensure that they can function optimally. We further urge the department to ensure that disciplinary measures are taken against police officers who obstruct the investigation of a sexual offence matter, either by ineffective police work or corruption.

It is at the level of prosecuting perpetrators of abuse that very many reports of secondary abuse of survivors are located. We want to recommend that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, through the National Directorate of Public Prosecutions, take measures that will address the way that child survivors of sexual abuse are dealt with in the courts. This includes speeding up the trial process, making use of child- friendly interviewing rooms and recognising that children are vulnerable witnesses who need special protection by the courts. It also includes producing the best possible forensic evidence to support a child’s testimony. Here, we recommend that the Department of Health should fast- track high-quality forensic training for medical personnel who are responsible for dealing with survivors of sexual abuse.

The primary responsibility for protecting children and preventing abuse lies with the family. There is a need to constantly reinforce awareness among communities about the effects of abuse on children. But, it must be reiterated that there is a need for a Government strategy that will spell out a holistic approach to preventing sexual abuse of children, including the roles and responsibilities of social workers, the police, medical personnel, court officials and educators.

With a view to monitoring the extent to which the recommendations made in this report are taken on board by the different departments, the task group recommends that the portfolio committee and joint monitoring committees that contributed to its work should report back to Parliament on these matters before the end of the first session of Parliament, in 2003. We trust that this will enable Government to take action where shortcomings have been identified, and that we will be able to say that as a country, within a year from now, in the interest of all our children, we have stood up and acted. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I want to make an appeal that we should listen to this important debate. There are far too many private meetings going on and the noise level is far too high. This is a very important debate. I would like us all to pay attention.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, seven cases of child abuse were reported in September and October last year. These horrific crimes on little people naturally sparked an outrage and resulted in Parliament setting up the task team, among other things, to understand the nature of sexual violence, highlight shortcomings in existing legislation that should protect children and to understand the shortcomings in Government responses, as well as come up with solutions.

Childline reported that, over the last 10 years, there has been a massive increase in the number of reported cases of child sexual abuse. This is an increase of up to 400%, and 50% of those children being seen by Childline in KwaZulu-Natal are under the age of 7 years. According to the Johannesburg Child Welfare Society, although concern and awareness has escalated in the area of child abuse, services have deteriorated, with much of the blame lying at the door of the Department of Social Development.

In fact, one presenter went so far as to say that the Department was presently only doing traffic control, in that the child is merely routed from one home to the other. Furthermore, due to high case loads, social workers work more in reactive mode when the ugly deed has already been done, as opposed to being able to implement preventive strategies. Many organisations registered their concern that they do not enjoy a good relationship with the state.

NGOs have a critical role to play in the awareness, prevention and management of child abuse. Besides the Department of Social Development, no other agencies make adequate funding available. One example is the allocation of large amounts of money by the National Lottery Fund to sports organisations. Yet another concern is that the NGO sector has no formal representation on the national plan of action for children. The question to ask is: Why?

The justice system also came in for some heavy criticism. The SAPS is understaffed, but more importantly, undertrained to provide an effective service to the sexually abused child. Poor collection of evidence and not treating sexual abuse with the seriousness it deserves, results in only 9% conviction rate. Given that there were 20 000 reported rape cases in 2001, this record is nothing to be proud of. The task team heard of a 13-year-old of who was raped by her uncle and became pregnant as a result, but had her case dismissed on the grounds of lack of evidence. I ask hon members whether a child carrying a child is not enough evidence. Unfortunately, the present justice system, as it stands, is contributing to secondary abuse, and the existing pre-trial conditions and processes are similar to a second rape for that abused child.

There is concrete evidence to confirm a strong link between the possession of child pornography and sexual abuse. In fact, 87% of rapists regularly used pornography, and 57% actually copied or re-enacted pornographic scenes when raping.

The present situation is that there are loopholes in the Film and Publications Act, and South Africa does not have specialist police units to deal with child pornography. The task team found that the incidence of sexual abuse in South Africa is unacceptably high and acknowledges that there is a distinct lack of co-ordination of services between the different government agencies.

The present Child Care Act is failing children because it is silent on sexual abuse and the specific responses and interventions required. Furthermore, the abuser seems to have more rights than the abused child. The task team is unanimous in its recommendations that national Government has to fast-track legislation relating to the protection of children, because at present, there is no single understanding of the seriousness of sexual violence against children.

There is great merit in the call for a South African offenders Act and a national register of sex offenders, provided that a limited group of persons or professionals has access to the register and that the main role or object is for monitoring purposes. In keeping with the theme of the United Nations Special Assembly for Children held in May this year, let us as South Africans also work towards making a world fit for children.

Children who have been abused are very sensitive to anger, and abuse is known to affect the child’s performance in school. Later in life, it can lead to depression, anxiety, and even abusive and criminal behaviour. There are many critical challenges which face us, and we have to have specific, targeted interventions with the aim of rapid success. The National Strategy on Child Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation should be completed as a matter of urgency. Amendments to the Sexual Offences Act must be tabled as soon as possible, and Government must give effect to the plan of action of the World Congress Against Sexual Exploitation of Children.

The Department of Social Development and the Government have a duty to declare every day a child-protection day, rather than one week a year. In conclusion, I thank the task team who sat in on all the hearings, and a special word of thanks goes to the researchers who worked into the late hours to make this report a success. [Applause.]

Ms N M TSHEOLE: Chairperson, allow me to thank Madams Speaker and Deputy Speaker as well as this august House for today’s debate.

It is ironical that one has to thank or be grateful for a debate on such an unpleasant subject, the sexual abuse of children, an ill that is plaguing our society. However, we have to be grateful only because of the significant implications of this debate. Firstly, this debate signifies our collective and joint acknowledgement that our nation has a problem which requires special attention. I would like to thank Ms Kalyan on the way she approached the debate, and I hope other members will follow suit.

Secondly, we are sending a message to our electorate of the commitment and determination of this Parliament to fully exercise its oversight role and further that this role extends beyond passing laws and monitoring oversight but also involves some introspection and acknowledgement by Parliament that nation-building involves more that laws. It involves the soul of a nation.

Gompieno ga se letsatsi la go supana ka menwana. Ke letsatsi la go kopanya ditlhogo, go ikaga le go aga setshaba. Ke setse ke buile gore ke eletsa fa re ka akanya re gopotse bana ba ba neng ba eme fa pele ga rona, jaaka maloko a Task Team, ba lela e bile ba re neela maikutlo a bona le dipogiso tsa bona. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Today is not a day to point fingers at each other. It is a day for thinking, for building up ourselves and the nation. I have already said that I wish we could think about the children who stood in front of us, as members of the task team. They are crying, and they are revealing their feelings and hardships.]

I hope that speakers who will follow, I hope hon member Dudley is listening, are going to say whatever they are saying keeping this in mind that the children who came to us to present their pain, drenching their clothes in tears from the pain they had experienced will not get an impression that we are using their grief and pain for point-scoring. I hope that that is the approach that we are going to take. I hope we are going to make an effort.

Re ya go tsaya matsapa a go phimola dikeledi tsa bona. Re se ka ra lwela go ba gotlha marama re leka go ba bontsha gore rona re itse go phimola dikeledi tsa bona go phala ba bangwe. Tla re tshwaraganeng ka matsogo. (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)

[We are going to take pains in consoling them. We should not try to make ourselves better than everyone else. Let us join hands.]

I would like to make an appeal to the whole House to hold hands to symbolically show the nation that we are together in addressing this problem. I was hoping that when I said this that members would extend their hands to their neighbours to symbolically show the nation that we are together, but members did not. But, I would like to thank those who did.

I know that rising above political differences for the good of the nation is a challenge that requires bravery. I am appealing to us to rise above our political differences when we address these issues. Let us not be cowards.

A re se ke ra boela morago jaaka magatlapa. Gompieno re bua ka kgang e ka Sepedi ba reng ke ``dipshesa mare’’. [Let us not retreat like cowards. Today we are talking about a topic which in Sepedi is said to be disgusting.] Usually, we rarely talk about child abuse. We know that it is only lately that people started talking about it. It used to be hidden. It was never talked of and that is why I am saying that we have to show bravery.

Re tshwanetse go nna bokgotlamaswe. [We should be some of those that touch the mess.]

In Setswana bravery is shown by people who can go anywhere and touch a mess. In talking about this issue, that is the message that we are sending to the nation that we are not afraid to publicly talk about sexual abuse of children. Re kgotla maswe gompieno. [Today we touch the mess.]

The task group has already heard from the chairperson regarding the process that we went through in getting evidence from people regarding this. But, most of the things were referred to the departments, and we also got different departments coming to give evidence on the efforts they have made. I will confine myself to Social Development and Health. They also came and gave examples of pieces of legislation and programmes they have in their departments. The truth is that as we have heard from hon Kalyan and the chairperson, Mr Saloojee, most of the legislation and issues that are there address the problem after it has occurred. That is the truth.

In the Health department, programmes that are there mainly deal with abuse after it has happened. Even when we say that the evidence is not strong and when we talk of forensic nursing, it is after the abuse has occurred.

With regard to Social Development, the chairperson has indicated that among all the other issues, we find challenges like budgetary constraints. It is almost a tradition that 90% of the Social Development budget goes to social security and only 10% is for social services. There is no way in which that 10% of the budget could deal with this massive issue and prevent it. As a result of this, policies that have been drafted, like family intervention and other issues to identify vulnerable families, cannot be carried forth. We find that 10% has to take care of everything. Therefore, despite beautiful policies, like the White Paper on Social Development, the programmes that are in place cannot be taken forth because of budgetary constraints.

I know that when we are talking about such issues, it might be sensitive at times. But as I said earlier, if we are going to address these issues we have to be bokgotlamaswe. [We have to touch the mess.] We are going to do introspection. We are appealing to the Department of Finance and hope that the Committee on Finance will look into these issues when dealing with budgetary matters, and in future know that an achievement does not only lie in coming up with policies that we cannot implement.

The other issue that I would like to emphasise with regard to Social Development and Health for intervention is basically with regard to the issue of the regeneration of family units, to which the chairperson referred. If we can look at families, we can come with laws and sentence people to life imprisonment. But, all the things that we are doing come when abuse has occurred. The appeal that we would like to make with regard to issues that have been indicated by the task team is that as Government we need to achieve intervention and preventive measures.

If we as Parliament can insist, as the chairperson indicated and as the report recommends, that each portfolio committee that was represented in the task team should later interact with the relevant department to ensure that programmes are put into place. Let us ensure that whatever programmes are implemented are not only going to be curative but there should also be preventive programmes. In this way, we will be dealing with the intervention and reduction of the sexual abuse of our children. Let us ensure that we are going to follow the advice of the Secretary of the United Nations, Dr Kofi Annan, when he indicated that achievements can be made, and I quote:

A child born in 1954 came into a world that had never even sent a satellite into space. In the year that the child turned 15, a man landed on the moon. A child born in 1964 came into a world where tens of millions of people were infected with smallpox. In the year that that child turned 15, smallpox had been officially eradicated.

He goes on quoting incidents. He further says, and I quote:

If they could accomplish all these things within the spell of one childhood, how can we fail to do the same with the pledges that have been agreed to by all countries of the world.

But, in our case that have been agreed to by all of us from different departments and portfolio committees. Let us not fail our children. [Applause.]

Dr O S B BALOYI: Chairperson, hon members, I stand here in support of this report. My colleagues will also outline the experiences that they gained during the course of the hearings.

I wish to dedicate my talk to those brave children who trusted us enough to share very painful moments in their lives with us. Their strength and ability to share the greatest hurts that they had experienced in their lives have assisted the task group to compile this report. We trust that the members of this House will not only take ownership of the issues that are raised in this report, as well as the recommendations made, but will also strive to ensure that all the recommendations herein will be implemented with the urgency required. We owe that to the children of the country.

We also applaud the contribution made by all those who participated in the hearings. The concern and commitment shown was immense. The standard of presentation was also very good, even with the divergent views that were expressed. All these things enhanced the task group’s understanding of the subject of the sexual abuse of children. The report summarised the findings and recommendations according to the broad headings of: social development services, education, health issues that are related to the sexual abuse of children, the criminal justice system, international instruments for the protection of children, commercial sexual exploitation and the media.

I will not attempt to cover all the things that are written in the document which is tabled today. I will only touch upon a few areas. Violence against children, worldwide, is on the increase. Sexual abuse occurs in all communities, irrespective of socioeconomic status. There is no simplistic linear relationship between poverty and abuse, although abject social conditions, together with substance abuse, may contribute to the sexual abuse of children.

The sociopolitical and economic history of South Africa has impacted negatively on family and community life and resulted in a society characterised by extreme forms of violence, of which sexual abuse is but one. It was clear from the hearings that the developmental needs of vulnerable communities have to be addressed holistically. The family unit has broken down in many homes. Special attention and support must be given to affected families. Communities must be strengthened and social cohesion ensured by making neighbourhoods safe. Conditions of social deprivation must be eliminated as they contribute to rendering children more vulnerable to abuse. The responsibility for services to vulnerable children and their families seems to be fragmented between the Presidency, the national Department of Social Development, the provincial departments of social development as well as the child protection agencies in the criminal justice system.

The ill-defined co-ordination between the departments and the lack of clear consensus on who is responsible for which services are matters of grave concern. Of further concern is the lack of a clear and integrated strategy for both preventive and protective interventions to ensure adequate provision of the required services. Social workers have to deal with extremely high case loads under often very difficult circumstances. They tend to react to situations of abuse but are unable to implement preventive strategies. In many instances, even their reactions amount to too little too late.

It is of great concern to us that the morale among the social service professionals is at a dangerously low level because of, among other things, the low levels of remuneration in relation to their training and the volume of work which is expected of them.

The task group is of the view that family preservation programmes, parenting skills programmes, childcare programmes for single working parents and programmes that focus on alcohol and substance abuse, if provided in an integrated manner, could more effectively contribute to addressing some of the conditions that make children more vulnerable to abuse. For this to be successful, social workers, police officers and medical personnel, among others, must agree on the nature of the services to be provided and on who has the responsibility for which aspects of the services. They must work closely with the communities. Allow me to digress a bit and share with the members what I believe is a challenge for us all. If the children are the clay that the adults, in particular, and society, in general, can mould, the challenge then for us is to address this question: What should go into moulding these children? Our children watch us closely. They model themselves on what they observe - our behaviour, values and attitudes. If we are hateful and violent, they will become hateful and violent. If we are loving and caring, they will be like us. One of our most important tasks is to teach our children values and behaviours that will guide them to behave with love, kindness, faith and hope, compassion and nonviolence, and make them value how to treat each other with respect and dignity. That must begin with children in the infant stage because babies, too, observe us very closely and understand far more than we think.

It should be further accepted that Government alone is not in a position to do all the work in this field. Social service organisations, especially those that are working in underresourced areas, if well funded, may be very effective. Other organisations which work with volunteers to assist social workers must also have ongoing support to assist them in order to deal with the issues of sexual abuse of children. The large disparities between the provision of services in urban areas and those in rural areas must be addressed.

We support the recommendation that all these programmes should be adequately funded and that the attention of the national Treasury should be sought to ensure that budgetary allocations to the departments allow for the implementation of the relevant policy objectives.

The hearings allowed one to come to the conclusion that it is necessary to understand the sexual abuse of children in its broader social context, nature and magnitude, and to develop interventions for primary prevention and the prevention of long-term consequences.

We would like to highlight the important role that needs to be played by Parliament and its structures such as the committees and the departments that are the backbone of this Parliament. Many useful recommendations have been tabled in the report that is being discussed today. Each is to be taken forward by the respective department and committee. It is imperative that progress is monitored as to whether the recommendations have been pursued after the adoption of this document. I need to share with the hon members the concern that many documents, and very useful documents, are tabled in this House but when one follows up on what needs to be done, one finds that beautiful strategies are lying unused. We hope and trust that that will not happen with this report.

The IFP supports the call by the task group that Parliament should be given a progress report in the next six months by all affected departments or committees. In other words, the document has attempted to outline in more detail specifically which task team, which portfolio committee or which department needs to address which issues. We trust that members will acquaint themselves with the recommendations and act accordingly. Another updated report can follow, maybe not later than in 12 months’ time. But, essentially, action must be taken.

The IFP unreservedly supports this report. [Applause.]

Mr S L DITHEBE: Chairperson, today I would like to dedicate my speech to my daughters who are present in Parliament because every child is my child, that is, through them.

The country’s most vulnerable and innocent civilians, our children, have been at the receiving end of brutal sexual assault by heartless and ruthless criminal elements from both inside and outside their families.

The ANC has heard the cries of our country’s beloved children in particular and of their mothers in general. Therefore, we recommit and rededicate ourselves to one of our basic pillars, as contained in the ANC’s strategy and tactics document, namely, and I quote: To deepen our democracy and culture of human rights and mobilise the people to take active part in changing their lives for the better.

We are heartened by the efforts of the Office on the Rights of the Child in the Presidency; the National Plan of Action for Children as well as its provincial structures, that is the provincial plans of action; NGOs, and community-based organisations in combating the scourge of the sexual abuse of children, which often goes with its twin sister, the sexual and physical abuse of women.

At this hour in the history of our country, we say: ``Vukani makhosikazi. Mosadi o tshwara thipa ka bohaleng, mme maatla ke a rona. [The Setswana- speaking communities would say, and I quote:] Mabogo dinku a thebana. Sedikwa ke ntswapedi ga se thata. [Unity is the power.]

To demonstrate our unflinching resolve to give child abusers no quota, the toll-free Childline number, 08000 55555, must be inscribed in our hearts and minds, and we must use it to inculcate a culture of zero-tolerance in respect of incidents of child and woman abuse.

We are ranked amongst the leading countries in the world that have ratified international instruments that protect the welfare and rights of children. We have also attended, through our representatives in this Parliament, the United Nations General Assembly session on children in May this year. Out of that session, came the outcome document and our children, on 31 May this year, had an opportunity to share its contents with the other children whom they represented in New York.

A better Africa and a better world means that the New Partnership for Africa’s Development must succeed and world poverty must be halved by 2015 so that South Africa, Africa and the world can be fit for children. We dare not fail them.

I would like to share with this House some of the incidents, not only on our shores but elsewhere, where children are still being abused. I want to refer to the story reported in the Economist of 1 June which states that, in the US alone, 400 000 children are trafficked every year. Most of these children are American whilst others come from countries such as Israel, Russia and Asia as well, and that they are paid as much as $35 for these dastardly acts by those who are masterminding trafficking in children.

I would like to say that I am heartened also by the spirit that has characterised this debate because, as hon Ntshadi Tsheole said, so far, there has been no finger-pointing, which demonstrates the agreement that prevailed during the deliberations of the task group on the sexual abuse of children. All of us were outraged and enraged by the deeds of those - be they uncles, fathers or strangers - who have decided that children will become their sex objects.

We must revitalise the core values of African culture, which has always respected children. I would like to say that there are many fathers who love and care for their children. It is not necessarily every father or uncle that sees his child or niece as a sex object. We would like to call on those fathers to continue to love and care for their children, and on all of us to make our communities, villages and every corner of our country a safe haven for our children because one can imagine what would happen if incidents of sexual abuse of children went unreported and unpunished. All that we would have is a very sick society, a society that would not produce future leaders who would today be at the helm of leadership of such institutions as our Parliament.

We have not lost any hope because, as I have said, our country is one of the leading countries. Perhaps it is ironic that countries such as the United States, which boasts a culture of human rights and also has some very good legislation, such as that initiated by Senator Holdings dealing with the trafficking of children and punishing those countries that were doing so, has not ratified the UNCRH and yet South Africa, young democracy as it is, is leading as one of those countries that has ratified it. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Mr C M MORKEL: Chairperson, I want to thank Madam Speaker and the Chairperson of the NCOP in their absence for the seriousness with which they have taken this matter and for putting it on the agenda of Parliament. I also want to thank the members of the task group, especially Chairman Saloojee, for the efforts that they put in and the spirit with which we were able to make rapid progress on this report. It was a clear indication that we are able to rise above petty party-political bickering and forge consensus on issues of national importance such as this one.

I also wish to thank the committees section, the researchers and the public participation unit of Parliament, as well as the media for all their valiant efforts. Most of all, we need to thank the public for responding to our call for submissions. The outpouring of the accounts of sexual abuse, especially by the children, was in itself a clear indication that the hearings were not simply just another talkshop, but that we were able to move beyond theorising about faceless perpetrators and victims. The children, as hon members heard earlier, spoke at the hearings.

With prematurely aged faces, many sobbing children shared some of their most traumatic experiences and this reinforces the view that children must be given the opportunity to share their experiences with Parliament, government departments and with the judiciary more often and in a far more sensitive and specialised manner. The leaders of our nation just do not listen to our children often enough. This is one of the worst forms of paternalism and sexism. We must ensure that we listen to, and represent, the interests of our nation’s children.

I am of the view that the event of the public hearings is but only the start of a comprehensive programme of action that will be part of the healing process. The final report tabled before hon members today sufficiently interrogates the overwhelming content of both oral and written submissions in a comprehensive and analytical manner, focusing on the clusters of government and the action that they should be taking.

It makes easy reading and all members must respond appropriately during the forthcoming six months. At that time, as the committee has recommended, Parliament should review the actions taken by the various parties. The final report must result in a review of certain government policies and programmes, and it has been suggested that this could best be driven by an interministerial committee, as some submissions made would reflect, whose political will must co-ordinate the urgent work of an interdepartmental committee on the sexual abuse of children.

Secondly, all relevant legislation is to be reviewed, demanding the undivided attention of Parliament over the next couple of months. This includes the draft Child Justice Bill. Thirdly, the process of monitoring and oversight by Parliament must also remain focused on the crisis until we are satisfied that we have eliminated all the challenges that have been presented to Parliament. Out of this report, some of the key areas that emerge include a consolidation of the sectoral research and the causes and effects of sexual abuse on both victims and perpetrators; the need for a comprehensive and action-orientated policy; programmatic and legislative review, and the need for public awareness and participation in interventionist plans and programmes of action.

Identified role-players must report back within the recommended period of six months. We would need to reach constructive consensus on further substantive issues of contention, which include the assertion that many perpetrators have themselves been victims of sexual abuse as children; the impact of censorship policies and the availability of pornographic material; the impact of certain cultural myths and practices, including the misconception that having sex with a virgin could prevent or cure HIV/Aids; the need for a register of sexual offenders, as some members of Parliament of both Houses are in favour of; the need for child-friendly trauma counselling; the mandatory testing for exposure to HIV/Aids within and beyond the incubation period of both victim and perpetrator, and the precautionary administration of antiretrovirals within a 72-hour period of being raped.

I would like to, once again, take this opportunity to say that our challenge now is to sustain and expand the involvement of children in Parliament’s activities. We annually have the South African Youth Parliament. SADC now also has a youth parliament. We need to localise those activities into being more than just events.

We must act now to break this exponentially spreading virus that lurks deep like a cancer, eating away at the soul of our nation, spreading from perpetrators to victims, who themselves become perpetrators.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, may we have some order, some good decorum and a little bit of Ubuntu so that the person who is trying to communicate with you can do so.

Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Chairperson, during last year, a number of incidents of child rape and sexual abuse received high media coverage. It was the rape of baby Tshepang that released emotions of outrage, shock and condemnation throughout the South African community. The task team’s report, which flows from that, reads like a charge sheet against a system failing the young and vulnerable. It is a charge sheet against an adult community that not only fails its young but is also its biggest threat.

I would like to focus on the role that the criminal justice system plays and the contribution that it can make in improving what is clearly an intolerable situation. Through the public hearings, a clear picture started developing, one of utter frustration and discouragement: stories of how police personnel refused to open a case because the accused is a respected member of the community and, in the mind of the police, will not commit such a crime; child survivors being kept in the same area as the accused; child survivors not seeing a district surgeon for as long as 24 hours; cases finalised as long as 18 months to two years after they were opened, resulting in young survivors forgetting details; witnesses moving and cases being withdrawn.

More often than not, the criminal justice system results in secondary abuse to the survivors of sexual abuse cases. The discrepancy between the number of actual reported cases of abuse and conviction statistics for rape and sexual offences suggests that the majority of reported cases are not successfully prosecuted. The blame for this should be carried by all role- players within the criminal justice system, and improvement will only be reached if every sector of the criminal justice system seriously accepts its responsibility in bringing about improved services.

As lawmakers, we cannot accept and should not tolerate when those who are responsible for the implementation of legislation passed by this House make public pronouncements stating that it is not possible to police such legislation. This is particularly true where the said legislation was intended to protect the vulnerable such as women and children. We cannot be serious about defending our children when the Commissioner of Police publicly states that it is impossible for the SAPS to police the Domestic Violence Act.

On the contrary, members of the Portfolio Committee for Safety and Security were informed by the Institute for Security Studies that it was not only possible to implement the Act but absolutely necessary to police it. This we should expect from every sector involved in the criminal justice system. It is very often these early warning signs that can alert us to a serious problem. They can also lead to prevention. If this House is serious about putting an end to this intolerable situation, it must communicate its commitment by strongly and in no uncertain manner, communicating that it will not accept these kind of statements and attitudes from senior officials.

I associate myself with every recommendation made in this report. The question that comes to mind is: What happens now? From the UDM’s side, we would like to urge that the ownership of this report be taken by, preferably, the Speaker of the House, as the presiding officer.

The report places a number of reponsibilities on a number of departments and committees of this House. It will only become more than mere words on paper if it is actually followed up and through. The UDM will go further and suggests that, within a year’s time, the task team or similar body for that purpose be asked to evaluate progress made regarding the recommendations published in this report. We know and accept that ownership of this report is needed in order to effect positive change. Every incident of sexual abuse against a child is one too many. It shames us as a nation and as a people. We cannot claim that the youth is our future but then create an environment that is hostile to their immediate circumstances. I plead that we should distribute this report as widely as possible to each and every role-player, whether they participated or not, so that it becomes public knowledge what we expect from the system that should provide protection. This expectation should be a general one and should become a reality.

The fact that many organisations participated in this process is a clear indication that South Africans are ready to rid society of these disgusting actions. The UDM would like to express its appreciation for the participation by civil society. We would also like to commend the children who participated, many of whom were survivors themselves, pleading the cases of their peer group.

I would also like to commend the chairperson for the manner in which he conducted the process and the committed work of the researchers without which the final report would have been impossible. Their action indicates the manner in which we should approach the matter further.

Let us channel our disgust, outrage and condemnation into positive energy aimed at ridding our society of these animal-like perpetrators. [Applause.]

Ms M M SOTYU: Mhlalingaphambili, mandiqale ngokubonakalisa imbeko kumalungu onke eNdlu yoWiso-mthetho, kuluntu ngokubanzi nakuMphathiswa wezoKhuselo noKhuseleko, ongene ezihlangwini zikaQabane uSteve Tshwete. SiyiKomiti yoKhuselo noKhuseleko sithi KuMphathiswa: ``Ungene walingana twatse ezihlangwini zikaThangana.’’ (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms M M SOTYU: Let me show respect by first begin by greeting the hon members of the House, the general public and the hon the Minister of Safety and Security, who has replaced comrade Steve Tshwete. We, as the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security say to the hon Minister: You are suitable for the place of Thangana (Mr Tshwete’s clan name).]

Modulasetulo, ke tla bua jwaloka mme, eo ka tsatsi le leng a ileng a pepa, a ba le bana, haholo bana ba basetsana. [Chairperson, I will speak here as a mother who once gave birth to children, especially female children.]

Sexual abuse and violence against children is a gross violation of human rights. According to the latest information, police have handled almost 16 cases of child rape for children of 17 years and under, between January and September 2001. There is a grave concern about the manner in which some SA Police Service members handle cases of sexual abuse. Poor police response and lack of proper investigation of such cases is also of serious concern. For example, there is the case of baby Tshepang, where, in some instances, the capability of some of the police is questioned.

During the public hearings, many concerns were raised. Some concerns, amongst others, were the poor police response to sexual abuse of teenagers who are being abused by their boyfriends. Such cases are disregarded, as the girl is considered to be sexually active anyway. Also, when a relationship exists between the victim and the perpetrator, there is always a tendency to withdraw cases by the relatives. This makes the work of the police very difficult. Let us not corrupt our police by bribing them in order for them to destroy sexual abuse case dockets.

Ke rata hore, haholoholo ke bue le bomme mahaeng mane. Ha re tloheleng ho sireletsa bomabeta ba bana ba rona, haholoholo bana ba rona ba bashemanyana, ditsotsi tse betang masea a rona. O kile wa utlwa kae Malome a beta Motjhana wa lesea le kgwedi tse leshome? (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)

[Particularly, I’d like to talk to mothers back at home. I’d like to say to them: Shall we please stop protecting our children’s rapists, who are in most cases our own male children who have become criminals that are raping our babies. Have you ever heard of a situation where an uncle has raped his ten-month-old niece?]

Indoda yomXhosa yathi ngenye imini: Mayiqalekiswe imini ekwathi ngayo xa inkosikazi yasikwa yinimba yabeleka usana oludlwengulwayo namhlanje. [A Xhosa man once said:Let the day on which the woman bore the child that is being raped today be cursed.’’] Ekaba setjhaba sa heso, e fetohile tlhapa na thoriso ya Mosotho ha a re `Mma ngwana o tshwara thipa ka bohaleng’? Re kopa setjhaba se sebedisane le sepolesa sa rona, ho lwantshana le motabo maseaneng a rona. Setjhaba ke sona leihlo la mmuso wa rona. Ha re beng karolo ya diCPF ka hara motse, bomabeta re ba tlalehe sepoleseng. Mmuso wa rona o lekile ka tsela tse ngata, ho tlisa melawana e sireletsang tlhekefetso ya bana le bomme. Jwale ho ho rona ho re re phethise seo, ho thusana le mmuso wa rona. (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)

[I wonder if the ever-popular Sotho traditional praise that says: ``Mma ngwana o tshwara thipa ka bohaleng’’, ie no matter how difficult or dangerous the situation might be, a child’s mother will always be by his or her side, has since turned into an insult. Has it?

We appeal to the community to work hand in hand with the police in order to protect our children against rape. The community is the eye through which our Government can be enabled to identify this crime. Let us be part of the CPFs within our communities and report these rapists to the police. Our Government has tried in many ways to implement laws that are protecting women and children from being harassed. It is therefore up to us to put those laws into meaningful practice, to help our Government to protect us.]

Abazali mabadlale indima yabo nabo. Akukho nto ixabiseke ngaphezu kwempilo yabantwana bethu, kuba isizwe esinabantwana abangaphilanga, abanesingqala, asisosizwe siza kuphathwa kakuhle ngomso. Umzali ofunyaniswe engenankathalo kusapho lwakhe ngokuthi avumele ukuxhatshazwa kwabantwana ngesondo, asuke athi: ``Ngumcimbi wasekhaya’’, naye makakhalelwe ziintsimbi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Parents should play their role as well. There is nothing that is as important as the life of our children, because a nation with sick children will not have good leaders in the future. A woman that has been found guilty of neglecting her family by allowing sexual abuse of children and who would say: ``It is family matter’’, should be imprisoned.]

Waar het iemand al gehoor van ‘n man of pa wat van sy vrou se warm bed opstaan en in ‘n agtjarige seuntjie se bed klim en sy eie kind verkrag? Dit is ‘n skande. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Where did anybody hear of a husband or father that gets up from his wife’s warm bed and gets into an eight-year-old boy’s bed to rape his own child. It is a disgrace.]

In conclusion, I would also like to commend all those police, women and men in blue, for their endeavours to eradicate crime in our society.

Ha re sireletseng bana ba rona, batswadi. [We as parents must protect our children, it is our obligation.]

Masikhuseleni abantwana bethu, sincedisane noRhulumente kwiinzame azenzayo. Masiyeke ukuthi singoomama sikhusele imitshato yethu ngokuthi sithengise ngabantwana bethu. Abantwana baxabiseke kakhulu ukuba singathenga uthando ngabo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Let us protect our children and assist the Government in its efforts. As women we should stop protecting our marriages at the expense of our children. Children are too valuable for us to think that we can use them to buy love. [Applause.]]

Ms C DUDLEY: Chairperson, hon members, working with the task group, although time-consuming, was a privilege and, I hope, a worthwhile opportunity. I would like to thank the hon Mr Saloojee, the small group of members who actually committed to the process and the support staff who did an excellent job.

Many important recommendations have been made and relevant portfolio committees will be expected to oversee the progress with regard to implementation. I was impressed by the task group’s discipline in tolerating suggestions that challenged party positions, even though, ultimately, issues that cut across Government policy had to be rejected. The task group at least appeared to consider their relevance.

Recommendations focusing on the criminal justice system are particularly encouraging in light of our experiences as a party, working with rape and abuse victims in communities. A major concern, however, is whether recommendations will result in much-needed trained counsellors being placed at police charge desks, as it is critical for Aids-trained and sympathetic counsellors to be at the point of rescue, where a case is made or destroyed.

The ACDP’s head of its social action desk in KwaZulu-Natal, Jackie Branfield, has successfully introduced Bobby Bear into many police stations. This very special bear has multiple tasks but, most importantly, a counsellor, with the help of Bobby Bear, can have the forensic evidence necessary for a conviction in the case of child rape within 10 minutes. We have, to date, only lost two cases out of almost 100 where Bobby has been used. We recommend this approach and hope departments will promote this project, which accurately addresses the needs.

Childline is at present not able, or geared, to meet the needs for counselling and protecting abused children. Additional resources must be found.

I am also pleased to see the task group did not ignore alcohol, adult pornography or life skills. Although these subjects made them decidedly uncomfortable, they dared to make minor recommendations. They even recommended that legislation dealing with conditions of bail be amended to include the rape of boys under 16 and that sexual relations with a male under the age of 16 years be criminalised as statutory rape. I was astounded and impressed.

When it came to discussions around statutory rape in general, however, members got extremely agitated. I reminded the task group that statutory rape is not being reported by TOP or abortion facilities, and that because there is no limit on the age of children who can access these facilities without parental consent or knowledge, abusers are able to send children to TOP facilities for abortions and contraception so that the abuse can continue without consequences for themselves.

The task group refused to comment in the report on the reporting of statutory rape. They said it would impact on access to abortion, which they pointed out is legal and, as far as the task team is concerned, untouchable. They refused to consider an age restriction for children accessing abortion clinics without parental consent or knowledge and were not concerned that children as young as 11 years are confidentially aborting babies and receiving contraception, so that the abuse can continue. In fact, certain members did not feel statutory rape was rape at all.

Trafficking was another touchy issue. Strangely enough, the members seriously doubted reports that trafficking was taking place in South Africa. They were skeptical about Molo Songololo’s report, which stated: South Africa’s child sex industry is one of the fastest growing and most lucrative criminal enterprises in the world, with estimated profits of about $12 billion; economically desperate and sometimes abusive parents sell children as young as four to local and foreign syndicates, who force them into the sex trade. There are 38 000 child prostitutes in South Africa and Cape Town is fast becoming the world’s top sex tourism destination. Welfare organisations fear that the country may emerge as a safe haven for sex tourism.

These fears are not unfounded, considering the ANC, DP and New NP’s support for sex tourism, as witnessed when they collectively blocked ACDP proposals against sex tourism in the Cape Town unicity last year. The June 2002 official US government ``Trafficking in Persons Report’’ listed South Africa as a destination and transit country and reported that women were trafficked internally. The report said traffickers advertise in local newspapers, offering good jobs at high pay in exciting cities. They also use fraudulent employment, travel, modelling and matchmaking agencies to lure young men and women. In local villages, they pose as a friend of a friend and mislead parents into believing that their children will be taught useful skills or a trade, or that they will marry their daughters. Sometimes children are abducted or kidnapped.

Children are inherently valuable as human beings, because they are made in God’s image. In South Africa, the value of children is measured by whether or not they are wanted. Abortion is the ultimate child abuse, and by allowing, and even promoting, the termination of unborn children as a woman’s right, the protective role society should play towards little ones is undermined.

Government is making a lot of noise about moral regeneration and even appeals to churches to help, but consistently undermines any efforts with subversive legislation and policies. Unfortunately, the usefulness of this report will also be limited if only politically acceptable solutions are contemplated: Discipline, for example, is taboo for children, and criminals have more rights than law-abiding citizens.

The report refers to children as ``our most valuable resource for the future of our country’’ and Government has put our future into the hands of organisations like Love Life and Planned Parenthood, who are proudly antifamily, proabortion, prolicentious sex and deviant lifestyles. They are committed to promoting oral sex as positive behaviour for children and youth, regardless of the risks.

Expecting children to have sex and seducing them with licentious talk entraps them, and it is an insult to those children who are committed to abstinence. Government itself has been seduced by Love Life and Planned Parenthood, who have become untouchable.

Adult pornography is an additional story. [Time expired.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, hon members, apart from being Members of Parliament, we are adults, but above all, most of us are parents. As elected representatives, our business is to minister to the needs of our constituents across all social, racial, gender, age and other divides. The future of any country depends on the investment it makes regarding its children. Children brought up without love will never love. Children brought up with fear will be fearful all their lives. Children brought up in abusive circumstances will grow up to be abusive.

Contrary to what has been said about apartheid, and without apologising for apartheid, there is no empirical correlation between incidents of child abuse and race. Child abuse is as prevalent among whites as it is among blacks, in Africa as it is across the seas and among the educated as it is among the unschooled.

The multisectoral task team of Parliament, whose report we are considering, came to the conclusion that, among others, there are deficiencies in legislation that seeks to empower those who are charged with the maintenance of law and order. The establishment of the new family-violence, child-protection and sexual-offences units are most welcome. Our plea, however, is that they should not serve only as job stations, but that they will consist of people who will work hard to eradicate this scourge called child abuse. Laws are there to be implemented. The aforementioned examples have to be set when perpetrators are arrested.

On Youth Day, 16 June, the Kids Alive Foundation, a nongovernmental foundation in Soweto, staged a long walk to Durban in an effort to educate young people about child abuse. They visited schools and held discussions along their long haul. These are the kind of efforts that we expect. Gone are the days when people could speak from a moral high ground, but do nothing. I would like to convey our thanks to Mr Martin, the leader of the group, for this initiative.

How many children have been burnt to death, because their mothers have left them locked in a hut, or shack, to fetch water nearby? How many have been run over by cars, because they were sent to buy liquor or cigarettes? Such errands are abuse of the first order and must be discouraged. Socioeconomic depression is not a licence to abdicate parenthood. It is in such trying times that parents have to show that they are made of sterner stuff. Adults have a responsibility, and they have to exercise this responsibly. No child should be reduced to servitude, be it at home, school or any place in society.

We, in the UCDP, fully support the adoption of the report, but go on to challenge parents and adults to be just that: Parents and grown-ups, and not grown-up or adult children.

Mnr D V BLOEM: Voorsitter, agb lede, ek dink in my vorige toespraak in dieselfde debat het ek alreeds die standpunt baie duidelik gestel. Ek wil vandag net opvolgwerk doen.

Ons glo die verantwoordelikheid vir jeugmisdadigers rus op die Departemente van Korrektiewe Dienste, Justisie, Gesondheid, Onderwys en Welsyn. Ons glo dat dit die verantwoordelikheid van die Departement van Korrektiewe Dienste is om kinders wat gevonnis is in veilige bewaring te hou. Die verantwoordelikheid van die Departement van Welsyn is om om te sien na die welstand van alle verhoorafwagtendes, beide jeugdiges en ander gevangenes. So ook moet die Departement van Gesondheid omsien na gesondheid in tronke. Die Departement van Onderwys moet toesien dat daar ‘n onderwysplan en -program vir jeugdiges in tronke is, sodat hulle die nodige onderrig kan kry om hulle voor te berei vir die samelewing daar buite.

Die Departement van Justisie is verantwoordelik vir die kind se beweging deur die justisiestelsel. Die probleem met al hierdie departemente is dat daar geen kollektiewe samewerking ten opsigte van verantwoordelikheid is nie, gevolglik raak die kind verlore in die stelsel.

Gevangeniskap van jong oortreders tesame met geharde volwasse gevangenes verwek weer geharde jeugdige gevangenes. Baie jong oortreders raak agterdogtig oor die justisiestelsel en gradueer in ‘n lewenstyl van oortreding. Dit verminder die waarskynlikheid van die jeugdige om gerehabiliteer te word en om ‘n verantwoordelike jongmens te word.

Die staat bestee tans omtrent R675 miljoen aan kinders wat gebots het met die gereg. Die getal jeugoortreders verhoog daagliks. Hoewel ons weet dat daar kinders is wat baie ernstige misdade gepleeg het, is daar diegene wat minder ernstige misdade gepleeg het. Hulle hoort glad nie in die gevangenis nie. Die afgelope week het ons gesien hoe grootskaalse korrupsie in die Grootvlei Gevangenis in Bloemfontein oopgevlek is. Belangriker is dat gesien is hoe jeugdige oortreders vir seks binne die gevangenis verkoop word. Dit is kommerwekkend.

Gevangenes het beëdigde verklarings afgelê wat daarop dui dat beamptes die verhoorafwagtendes uit hul onderskeie seksie gaan haal, en hulle dan aan die ouer geharde gevangenes vir seks verkoop. Ons erken dat omstandighede in ons oorvol tronke ‘n aantal uitdagings vir die Departement van Korrektiewe Dienste inhou. Die tekort aan personeel en lae moraal, wat gepaard gaan met lae lone, skep ‘n broeiplek vir korrupsie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, hon members, I think I already stated the position very clearly in my previous speech in the same debate. Today I would just like to do follow-up work.

We believe that the responsibility for juvenile offenders rests with the Departments of Correctional Services, Justice, Health, Education and Welfare. We believe that it is the responsibility of the Department of Correctional Services to keep children who have been sentenced in safe custody. The responsibility of the Department of Welfare is to see to the welfare of all awaiting trial, both juveniles and other prisoners. In the same way, the Department of Health must see to health in prisons. The Department of Education must see to it that there is an educational plan and programme for juveniles in prison, so that they can receive the necessary tuition to prepare them for society outside.

The Department of Justice is responsible for the child’s movement through the justice system. The problem with all these departments is that there is no collective co-operation with regard to responsibility, and consequently the child is lost in the system.

The imprisonment of young offenders with hardened adult prisoners in turn breeds hardened juvenile prisoners. Many young offenders become suspicious of the justice system and graduate to a lifestyle of crime. This reduces the probability of the youth being rehabilitated and becoming a responsible young adult.

The state is currently spending approximately R675 million on children who have clashed with the law. The number of juvenile offenders is rising daily. Although we know that there are children who have committed very serious crimes, there are those who have committed less serious crimes. They do not belong in prison at all. During the past week we have seen large-scale corruption exposed at the Grootvlei Prison in Bloemfontein. More importantly, we saw how juvenile offenders are sold for sex in prison. This is worrying.

Prisoners have made sworn statements which indicate that officials fetch those awaiting trial from their respective sections, and then sell them to the older, hardened prisoners for sex. We concede that conditions in our overcrowded prisons present a number of challenges for the Department of Correctional Services. The shortage of staff and low morale, which are coupled with low wages, create a breeding ground for corruption.]

We also recognise the efforts of our Minister, Mr Ben Skosana, in taking strong action against corruption in our prisons. In consultation with our President, the Minister appointed the Jali Commission of Inquiry. The purpose of the Jali Commission, which is to root out corruption in South Africa’s prisons, is important for the transformation of our justice system. We commend the Minister and the Commissioner for their commitment to good governance. We commend their integrity in suspending the 22 warders found culpable of wrongdoing, but more importantly, we commend those individuals who were brave and courageous enough to come forward to the Jali Commission and expose corruption.

With the positive steps taken against corrupt warders, we also need to move in a positive direction to address youth justice. Our Constitution outlines the rights of children, and also outlines the fact that child prisoners should be specifically protected and should receive specific treatment.

In terms of the Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998, child prisoners are to receive compulsory education and have access to educational programmes. The Commissioner also has the obligation to provide every child prisoner with social work services, religious care, recreational programmes and psychological services.

Educational programmes should be made compulsory. It should be made clear that young offenders do not have an option whether or not to attend educational classes. Although these basic services are to be provided by the department, we still need a comprehensive policy guide regarding the imprisonment of young offenders. The draft Child Justice Bill proposes that children who have committed less serious offences should be diverted to other means of sentencing.

This is based on restorative justice principles, which place emphasis on reconciliation and restitution, rather than punishment and retribution. According to the Freedom Charter, which was adopted in 1955, no punishment must be meted out against anybody who has committed a petty crime, especially children. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, we are a sick nation: a nation that abuses its women, the aged and its children. We are a nation that must confess its wickedness and sins in order to receive redemption and healing.

We have one of the best constitutions in the world, with an impeccable Charter of Human Rights. The real problem is that documents or declarations alone cannot save people. The real problem is that we have rights without responsibilities. Remember the story of Adam, Eve and the snake. Adam said: I did not eat the fruit, it is the woman who said I should eat it.'' The woman, Eve, said: It is the snake.’’ We must condemn the abuse of women and children, and not accept any excuses. Those who are guilty of these offences must be roundly condemned and severely punished.

Poverty is a contributory factor. We must tackle poverty head-on. Living conditions and houses that have no privacy, like vesi-nyawu houses, bring about moral degradation. It also affects the victims who may be bribed into abuse.

Cultural factors also need to be taken into account. The breakdown of society and its cultural norms make it completely vulnerable. People with a sense of pride suddenly become nobodies. People are forced to go to work, and they leave their children without adequate care. The ``grandmother factor’’ in African society is a case in point. If parents have to work, we must build structures or institutions in which grandparents can play an important role in looking after children.

Religious institutions should be made to play an important role in creating centres or cells for care. These can be broken down to street centres so that peace havens can be established where children can be looked after. The most difficult cases are those that happen inside homes where no external observation post can penetrate. These cases need spiritual treatment.

One can install a guard to watch over a situation, but the classical question is: Who guards the guard? Here we fall back on the need for moral regeneration. The Grootvlei Prison episode is our most recent example. Moral degeneration knows no boundaries. Moral degeneration is a slow death. A nation that is dying cannot save itself alone. It needs a saviour - a powerful living God. Amen. [Applause.]

Hon MEMBERS: Amen.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Amen.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the issue of sexual abuse of children is horrific, traumatic, unacceptable, demoralising, disgusting, intolerable, and I can go on and on. In earlier days, the issue of child abuse was often hushed and it was preferred that it be swept away under the carpet due to fear of bringing shame to the family name. The change today, in the recognition of child abuse as a something that is criminally wrong, is liberating in the sense that perpetrators of this horrific crime can no longer get away with it.

Child molestation crosses all socioeconomic levels. Unfortunately, sexual offenders come in all shapes and sizes, making it hard for them to be identified prior to abuse. What is even more devastating is that the victim often knows the offender. So, who should they trust?

We cannot demarcate areas of offence within our constituencies, for instance, in Chatsworth and Phoenix. It is sad and horrific to note the statistics of child abuse, amongst all other forms of abuse. There is no level or area, throughout South Africa, that has not been tainted by these horrific incidents. It affects, for example, family, relatives, friends, teachers, religious teachers, victims and offenders.

The MF strongly voices its support of the Task Group on Sexual Abuse of Children. It is certainly inspiring to note the different participants who were involved in compiling this report. We note the contributions that were made by so many interesting and caring participants. It is encouraging that the community is determined to put a stop to the sexual abusers of children.

The MF expresses its support for the manner in which the task group has compiled the report and for the participation that it invited. Members know the importance of the participation of different bodies and persons. They would, certainly, serve to contribute to establishing a firmer hold on the situation and would come up with a greater defence against child sexual molestation.

The MF supports the approach that has been suggested by the task group. The need for clarity in policy concerning child abuse is also supported with good reason. The strengthening of Government and civil society relations is the key in the fight against abuse. Further, the provisions to inculcate awareness programmes and training in prevention and legal rights, in view of the sexual abuse of children, are strongly supported by the MF. Let us all, today, send a message to those who commit this terrible and sinful crime and say: Please, for our innocent children’s sake, stop this terrible crime.

The MF salutes all those who are involved in the fight against the sexual abuse of children. Members should remember the saying: Your child is my child, my child is your child. Ingane yakho iyingane yami, nengane yami iyingane yakho. [Ihlombe.] [Your child is mine and mine is yours. [Applause.]]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, in a report which was compiled by the SA Human Rights Commission and dated April 2002, the following is reported, and I quote:

On the whole, sexually abused children’s experience with the criminal justice system compounds their trauma. An ineffective system also means that the sexual abuse of children continues unabated and that Government is failing to live up to its commitments, in terms of the Constitution and other international human rights instruments.

What this quotation conveys is that the future of our children does not only lie in the many laws that we continue to legislate; the safety and good health of our children does not only depend on the many discussions and conferences that we hold to discuss this issue. The evidence that we now have at our disposal points clearly to the fact that our criminal justice system needs a little bit of a shake-up. It is, indeed, now the time to act and implement, very firmly, the various instruments that are at our disposal. If our laws are wanting, it is our duty to draft new legislation. Our preoccupation should now be geared at addressing the permanent trauma that our children go through. When we do that, we should bear in mind that policies and programmes, by themselves, do not mean anything. Azapo believes that we, the adults in society, should bear the responsibility for the future of our children.

Many reports that deal with the issue of child abuse have, without exception, identified possible enemies of children. Men, in particular, are singled out for the role they play in cases of sexual abuse. Women have also contributed their share to a lesser degree. Societal conditions of existence have also contributed their share, particularly in areas of acute deprivation. We therefore need a holistic strategy that deals with enemies of children and addresses other positive factors in our society.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, some of you are still conversing a little too loudly. If you will, please allow for the speaker at the podium to be heard.

Prof S M MAYATULA: Chairperson, allow me to quote from some of the presentations made before the public committee.

The Aids Orphans Community Programme identified the breakdown of the family unit as one of the causes of sexual abuse of children, which breakdown takes many forms. As parents, some of us are too busy doing other things to have time to be with our kids.

The Southern African Catholic Bishops’ Conference identified, and I quote, ``moral breakdown in society’’ as one of the causes of this problem. As a result, the most vulnerable in society fall victim to those people who have lost their moral bearings.

The Domestic Violence Helpline in Durban said, and I quote:

…. increase in the number of younger females between the ages of two and five years who are victims of sexual abuse. In more than 60% of the cases, the perpetrators are fathers or stepfathers.

If the perpetrators are fathers and stepfathers, who is going to protect these kids? I think the Department of Education does have a role to play in this regard, and that is the angle from which I am going to come.

A number of organisations made different observations. One of them proposed that the Department of Education should be encouraged to include in its life-skills education programme the teaching of human rights, impulse management and responsible sexual behaviour. These skills should be taught to all learners.

Another presenter said that educators who are perpetrators should not be granted bail and should not be allowed to teach again. It was also proposed that there should be a code of conduct that prohibits sexual harassment and sexual relations between educators and learners; that there should be an implementation of compulsory sex education for teachers and learners at all levels; that schools at all levels should be targeted for an awareness campaign in order to inform and educate children about sexual abuse; and that social workers should address learners during guidance periods as part of the school curriculum.

The hon Kalyan referred to the problem of monies being given to sporting bodies, and I would like to put that in context. Although we do need to give more money to organisations that are involved in this area, I do not think that it would be fair to take money out of sport, because sport does play a very important role, especially as far as the youth are concerned. It is the youth who are not involved in anything who become involved in drugs, sexual abuse and other things. By funding those programmes, we are diverting those kids from such things and directing them to a better life.

What is the Department of Education doing? When it came before the committee, it reported, among other things, on the Safe Schools Project, which was launched in 1999 in order to create a safe and disciplined learning environment that celebrates innocence and values human dignity. In 2000, a module on Managing Sexual Harassment and Gender-based Violence was developed for schools. It provides schools with the knowledge and skills needed to deal with the different facets of sexual harassment.

The department, together with the SA Police Service, completed a workbook on Signposts to Safe Schools in 2001. A teacher’s manual on gender equity in education has been developed to ensure that schools become friendly to girl learners. The focus of the Life Orientation programme within Curriculum 2005 is intended to develop the skills, knowledge, values and attitudes that are essential for participation in a democratic society. The department launched a self-defence programme in 2002 to empower girls to extricate themselves from difficult situations.

On the legislation front, the amendment to the Employment of Educators Act, which was introduced in 2002 should enable education authorities to combat abuse in schools. The amendment provides for the dismissal of a teacher who has been found guilty of engaging in a sexual relationship with a learner, with or without the consent of such a learner.

In addition, the SA Council for Educators Act allows for the deregistration of a teacher who has been found guilty of sexual abuse of a learner and prohibits him or her from ever being appointed as a teacher again. To date, Sace has compiled a Code of Ethics for Teachers and has already deregistered a number of teachers. The Manifesto on Values, Education and Democracy is also intended to address these issues. There are 10 areas which it addresses in particular.

From the above, it is clear that the relevant laws and policies are in place in the Department of Education. Our duty, both as members of Parliament and as individuals, is to see to it that they are implemented. As part of its oversight and monitoring function, the portfolio committee will keep the Department of Education on its toes to make sure that these policies are implemented.

I would also like to make a call to all members to see to it that all these documents that I have referred to are available in schools, so that together we can assist in changing and improving the lives of our kids. [Applause.]

Mev P W CUPIDO: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is vir my jammer om vandag waar te neem dat hier nie ‘n enkele Minister van hierdie Regering in hierdie Huis teenwoordig is nie. Dit wys net vir ons hoe hulle belangstelling is. Ons hoop hulle kollegas gaan dit aan hulle oordra. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daar was groot applous in hierdie deel van die Huis toe ‘n prominente lid, die Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit, aangekondig het dat hy en sy kollegas vir drie minute op ‘n straathoek gestaan het, en geen verkragting gesien het nie. Hoe selektief en ongevoelig kan ‘n mens wees, wanneer so ‘n tragiese situasie bespreek word.

Ek staan volkome saam met die agb Kalyan en vele ander kollegas wat reeds in hierdie Raad vandag gepraat het. My vraag is egter: Hoekom nou eers ‘n taakspan aanstel om die omstandighede van kinderverkragting en -mishandeling te ondersoek? Kiesers en verskeie NROs het vir etlike maande in 2001 om hulp geskree, voordat die Regering op 11 Februarie 2002 ‘n taakspan aangewys het om sake te ondersoek en voorstelle te maak.

Wie is die rolspelers wat betrokke is by sake van kindermishandeling? Dit blyk asof die Ministers van Polisie en Justisie toeskouers is. Hoekom het hulle nie al voorheen opgespring en geskree nie: Genoeg is genoeg! Hoekom het Minister Zola Skweyiya nog nie besef dat armoede en geen staatsondersteuning vir skoolgaande kinders ‘n groot deel van hierdie probleem is nie? Sulke kinders wat nie skoolgeld het nie en by die huis bly, word blootgestel aan werklose mans en mans in die huisgesin.

Mnr Saloojee het beweer dat hierdie saak, in sy woorde, as ``a matter of urgency’’ hanteer moet word. Dit het hierdie Regering agt maande geneem om tot by hierdie debat te vorder. Tydens hierdie agt maande is daar verskeie gevalle in die media bekend gemaak van brutale verkragtings, onder meer die geval van ‘n 11-jarige dogtertjie in Uitenhage wat in die kritieke sorgeenheid in ‘n hospitaal opgeneem is; asook die jongste geval verlede week toe ‘n man vry uit die hof uitgestap het, omdat ‘n hofamptenaar nie die dogtertjie se besonderhede behoorlik geformuleer het nie. Daar is nog vele ander sulke gevalle. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs P W CUPIDO: Mr Chairman, it is sad to notice that there is not a single Minister of this Government present here in the House today. That just goes to show what their level of interest is. We hope that their colleagues will relay this to them. [Interjections.]

There was huge applause in this part of the House when a prominent member, the Minister of Safety and Security, announced that they stood on a street corner for three minutes and did not see any rape taking place. How selective and insensitive can one be when such a tragic situation is being discussed?

I fully support the hon Kalyan and many other colleagues who have already spoken in this Chamber today. However, my question is: Why has a task team only been appointed now to investigate the circumstances surrounding child rape and child abuse? Voters and various NGOs cried out for help for several months in 2001, before the Government decided on 11 February 2002 to appoint a task team to investigate cases and to put forward proposals.

Who are the role players involved in cases of child abuse? It seems that the Ministers of Police and Justice are mere spectators. Why did they not jump up and shout earlier: Enough is enough! Why has Minister Zola Skweyiya not yet realised that poverty and lack of government assistance for school- going children comprise a big part of this problem? Children who do not have school fees and stay at home are exposed to unemployed men and men in the family.

Mr Saloojee claimed that this case must be handled, in his words, as ``a matter of urgency’’. It took this Government eight months to progress to this debate. During these eight months there were various incidents made public in the media of brutal rapes, amongst others the incident of the eleven-year-old girl in Uitenhage who were admitted to the intensive care unit of a hospital, as well as the latest incident last week when a man walked out of court a free man because the court official did not formulate the little girl’s particulars correctly. There are many other similar cases.]

It is true that the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk said last year that this Government stumbled from the one crisis to another, one after the other. [Interjections.] Die wapenskandaal, Mbeki se Zimbabwesage, die toenemende vigsepidemie, die verkragting en mishandeling van vroue en kinders, mishandeling van bejaardes en die jongste geval, grootskaalse korrupsie, wanbestuur, en verkragting van kindergevangenes in tronke in Suid-Afrika: Waar gaan dit alles eindig? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The arms scandal, Mbeki’s Zimbabwe saga, the increasing Aids epidemic, the rape and abuse of woman and children, abuse of the aged and the latest incident of large-scale corruption, the mismanagement, and rape of child prisoners in prisons in South Africa: Where will it all end?]

``There is no security on this earth, only opportunities’’ are the words of a general in World War II. This world we live in does not offer any lasting security. It cannot. What it does offer is trials and challenges and a whole lot of opportunities. Our security in this country can only be found in our obedience to God’s call on our lives. When leaders have the drive and the will to demonstrate competency, genuine concern for others and admirable character, people will naturally follow and will trust such leaders. Followers can endure a wide spectrum of differences in their leaders, but these three elements are non-negotiable.

Let me remind the House that Singapore was granted independence in 1959 and has gone through a similar experience, economically, in terms of social disturbances and otherwise, as we have experienced in this country since our new Government came to power in 1994. They attached themselves to Malaysia in 1963 but it did not work. The country’s young leader, who was 42 years old then, Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, felt that his country had been cast adrift with few prospects and little hope. He realised that there was only one thing to do and that was to really work themselves out of a horrible situation. Today, Singapore boasts with many successes and continues to change.

Wanneer ons kyk na die kaliber van sommige staatsamptenare en politici, soos in die geval van die Grootvlei-gevangenis, besef ons dat daar vir ons ‘n groot taak voorlê. [Tyd verstreke.][Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[When we look at the calibre of some of the public officials and politicians, like in the case of the Grootvlei Prison, we realise that a mammoth task lies ahead. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, the following speaker is J J Dowry. This will be his swan song. He will be leaving this legislature to join the executive of the Western Cape government. [Applause.] He has therefore asked the House to excuse him from addressing the topic under debate and to be given leave to take his farewell of this House. I am certain you will be happy to allow him to do so.

Mr J J DOWRY: Mr Chairperson, since I started my career in politics over eight years ago, I have witnessed many changes in our country. As I stand here today, I am proud to have been part of the changes that have taken place since 1994. Since then, more than a million new houses have been built, people received water and electricity and, in the end, they are experiencing a better life. Although many people’s circumstances are still far from the ideal, I am proud to play a role in creating a better life for all South Africans through participatory governance.

As MPs we can never lose sight of our goals and the responsibility that has been placed on our shoulders. South Africa’s future lies in our hands and our actions are determining the future of tomorrow’s generations. If we do not provide them with the future they deserve, we will all be guilty of failing the people of South Africa.

It has been an honour for me to serve in this House, and I would like to thank all the members of this Parliament with whom I have been fortunate to cross paths, especially those in the communications committee and its chairperson. A special word of thanks goes to my leader, Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk, for his guidance and the trust he has put in me. [Interjections.]

To my fellow party members, I wish to thank them for their loyalty and support. I would also like to thank the Speaker and other presiding officers for their indulgence and fairness at all times. Just as I have strived to serve the people of South Africa in this House, I will continue to do so in my new capacity. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon member. We wish you well. I call on the hon L Mabe from the ANC.

Mrs P DE LILLE: It’s ``Maybe’’. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, would you just give me an idea of how your name is pronounced, because the hon Patricia de Lille is trying to mislead the Chair?

Ms L MABE: Chairperson, it is ``Mabi’’.

Ms L MABE: Thank you Deputy Chairperson. It is quite interesting that there are still people who believe that if a child terminates pregnancy before the age of 16, that is abuse. The unfortunate part is that those people do not understand that a child cannot have a child. It is immoral for a child to have a child, and that is not abortion, that is termination of pregnancy, because the child is not ready for that task in life.

It is very clear that the ACDP is not committed to moral regeneration. The way they are addressing this problem, they do not even see that as South Africa we have a problem that the morality of our society has gone down. To them it is success; to them it is an achievement. That is why they are not committed to the moral regeneration of our South African society. It is so funny that some members like talking about being seduced. How can the Government be seduced by Love Life. How is that possible? I wonder what goes into some of our minds, when we discuss these things.

Why does hon Cupido ask, why appoint the task team now? Why does she ask that? She should be happy that at least this Government made the effort and had the guts to appoint the task team to look into the problem of child abuse. I am happy that she never saw it as relevant in the past that this is a problem. I want to indicate that the issue of sexual abuse of children is a major problem across the world and should not be treated as simple as all that.

The ANC as a majority party in Government has put in place various mechanisms and strategies, for her information, to deal with this problem, which you like rejoicing in. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, tasked the South African Law Commission, to conduct an urgent investigation into the matter. So that they can provide a legal framework in dealing with sexual abuse of children.

The sexual offences Bill broadened the definitions of what is child abuse and what is rape. For the members’ information, she must know that all the children, both boys and girls, who are under the age of 16 years, cannot be regarded as adults. Therefore if such actions are done against them, that is an abuse. The Bill also contains guiding principles, in terms of implementing and interpreting the law. The Department has rolled out and is busy rolling out specialised courts in various parts of the country in terms of sexual abuse offences.

This is to ensure that the vulnerable witnesses and victims are protected, and do not face intimidatory court environments. The guiding principles will also help to sensitise and capacitate the officials in the Criminal Justice System.

Ga twe ngwana ga a betelelwe ka ntlha ya fa a ikgogetse babeteledi. Bana ba rona ba tshwanetse go nna le kgololosego ya go tsamaya kwa ntle ga letshogo fa ba romiwa, mme gongwe le gongwe kwa ba tsamayang teng, ba itse gore ba babalesegile. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[It is said that a child cannot be sexually abused because she invited the abusers. Our children should have the freedom to go anywhere, and everywhere they go, they should know that they are safe.]

The Department has come up with Saturday courts, to deal with the backlog in the disposal of cases. The project was successful in many parts of the country and we expect that the magistrates will cooperate with prosecutors to reduce the time taken to finalise sexual abuse cases. It is also expected that the police must investigate thoroughly to reduce the number of cases that are withdrawn, due to lack of enough evidence and prolonged trauma on the victims.

Go botlhoko gore maphodisa a fiwe dintlha tsotlhe ka kgetse, mme ba bo ba sa di kwale. Se, se busetsa tiro ya batshotshisi kwa morago mme se pateletsa bommagiseterata gore ba se bone disenyi molato ka lebaka la gore ga go na mabaka a a utlwalang.

Re le mokgatlho wa ANC, re leboga setshaba sa rona sa Aforika Borwa go bega dikgetse tsa petelelo ka gore mo malobeng ditiro tse di ne di tsewa e le khupamarama ya selegae. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[It is sad when the police are given all the details of the case, and they do not write them all down. This prejudices the work of prosecutors and it forces magistrates to acquit criminals because there is not enough evidence.

As the ANC, we thank South Africans for reporting cases of sexual abuse, because in the past they were kept internally secret.]

They used to be the secrets of the family. Now the people can go out and pronounce on what has taken place in their families.

Se e bile se thusa gore bana ba rona ba se ka ba gola ba ntse ba na le mogopolo wa gore ba ne ba tshwarwa makgwakgwa, mme le bona ba tshwara bana ba bona makgwakgwa. [This also helps our children not to grow up with the mindset that they were ill-treated, as they might also bring up their children in the same way.]

Rape is one of the serious offences listed in the Criminal Law Amendment Act, and this Act provides for a mandatory life sentence of persons convicted of two or more offences of rape, but had previously not been sentenced for such convictions. Repeat sex offenders for rape are liable for minimum sentences of life imprisonment, and we expect the courts to pass minimum sentences that will send a clear message to perpetrators and to the community that Government is serious about the business of child sexual abuse.

The Criminal Procedure Act of 1997 makes provision that a person charged with an offence like rape should be refused bail. We expect that the courts will fully utilise all legislation passed to assist them in dealing with crime. Trial bail application and imposition of minimum sentences will give a good message to young offenders who emulate adult offenders. If rapists have easy access to bail and are given mild sentences, a wrong impression is given to the society. Thus the judiciary undermines legislation and its objectives.

This may lead to our people losing confidence in the judiciary system that has to protect their rights. The community must also not put unnecessary pressure on the criminal justice officials, because this has a negative impact on the outcome of the judgement of cases. The Freedom Charter states that all national groups shall be protected by law against insult to their race and national pride. Therefore rape and sexual abuse are insults to our national pride as South Africa and should be dealt with without any mercy.

The brutality of apartheid has impacted negatively on the morals of our society. As ANC-led Government, we have taken a bold step in the moral regeneration of our society. People must not rejoice and say that the moral regeneration is doing nothing to this community. It is doing a lot of wonders, and one would not believe one’s ears.

Ke ditlhong le thogako mo go Ma-Aforika Borwa gore fa batsadi ba betelela bana, e ka bo e le ba bona kgotsa ba baagisani, ke matlhabisaditlhong a magolo. E bile ke ditlhong gape gore batho ba bagolo ba tsamae ba ntse ba buabua gore Puso e a itumela fa bana ba betelelwa, ka gore ga ba bue nnete ka Puso e ya ANC, e e beileng tsosoloso ya botho ba rona kwa pele. [It is shameful to South Africans for parents to sexually abuse children; whether it is they themselves or their neighbours, this remains shameful. It is also shameful for adults to keep saying that the Government is happy when children are sexually abused, because they are not telling the truth about the ANC-led Government, which has prioritised our humanity.]

Moral regeneration comes first to the ANC Government.

Bagolo na tshwanetse go tsaya ngwana, e le wa bona kgotsa e se wa bona, jaaka ngwana wa bona.

Ke rata gape go raya batho ba rona ba Aforika Borwa gore fa ba bona go na le bobodu ba dikgetse tse e leng gore fa di tshwanetse gore di lebelelwe, ga di lebelelwe ka leitlho le le ntshotsho, ba se ka didimala ba nna mo lefifing, mme ba bue. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Parents should embrace any child as their own, whether it is theirs or not.

I would also want to say to South Africans that when they see cases of corruption which were supposed to be attended to, or scrutinised, they should not keep quiet, but talk.]

The public must speak out, so that the Government will know what is happening, and we can do our oversight role to ensure that they are protected.

E bile gape ke rata gore ba bagolo mo mafapheng a rona, fa dilo tse di direga ba se ka ba ipelaela go tsaya dikgato tse di masisi kgatlhanong le badiri ba tiro e, ka gore ba a re sotla re le Puso. Ga re ba duelele gore ba re sotle.

Ke maikarabelo a malapa, Puso le ba ba diragatsang molao o re o fetisang gangwe le gape gore botlhe re tshwaragane, re kgone go babalela bana ba rona. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[I would also want to say to senior officials in our departments that when these things happen they should take the necessary steps against the perpetrators because they are embarrassing us as the Government. We are not paying them to embarrass us.

It is the responsibility of families, Government and those upholding the laws that we are passing to unite and protect our children.]

We must protect our children, and this is a tripartite alliance of ensuring that children are protected.

Ke rata go leboga ba ba neng ba tlile fa re ne re dira ditheetso, babatlisisi, komiti le ba ba neng ba se teng jaaka boCupido le Dudley, ba ba e tsayang fela mo moweng mme ba ise ba utlwe gore bana ba rona ba ne ba utlwa botlhoko bo bo ntseng jang. Ke re a go tle mo ditlhaloganyong tsa bona gore fa ba bua ka ngwana, ba itse gore ngwana yo le bona ke wa bona. Go ka diragalela ngwana wa gagwe ka moso, a bo a sa bue ka mokgwa o a buang ka teng. [Legofi.] (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[I would like to thank those who were present when we held hearings, researchers, the committees; and those who were not present, like members Cupudi and Dudley, who just heard through the grapevine and have never felt the pain that our children felt. I say that they should keep in mind, when they talk about a child, they should know this, that it is also their child. This could happen to their child tomorrow, they should not talk in the manner that they are talking.]

Debate concluded.

Report adopted.

           PRECEDENCE TO QUESTIONS TO THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That, notwithstanding the provision of the interim questions procedure, questions to the Deputy President that have been set down for oral reply on 26 June 2002 be brought forward and given precedence on Tuesday, 25 June 2002.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 16:18. ____

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: (1) The Minister of Transport on 14 June 2002 submitted a draft of the Road Accident Fund Amendment Bill, 2002, as well as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Transport and the Select Committee on Public Services by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (2)    The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs submitted the
     Wetsontwerp op die Beplanningsprofessie [W 76 - 2001] (National
     Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on 24 June
     2002. This is the official translation of the Planning Profession
     Bill [B 76 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), which was
     introduced in the National Assembly by the Minister on 26
     September 2001.


 (3)    The Minister of Communications submitted the Wetsontwerp op
     Elektroniese Kommunikasies en Transaksies [W 8 - 2002] (National
     Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on 21 June
     2002. This is the official translation of the Electronic
     Communications and Transactions Bill [B 8 - 2002] (National
     Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National Assembly
     by the Minister on 5 March 2002.


 (4)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Transport
     in the National Assembly on 24 June 2002 and referred to the Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule
     160:


     (i)     Road Accident Fund Amendment Bill [B 27 - 2002] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          23487 of 6 June 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Transport
     of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.


 (5)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 24 June 2002 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bill as a money Bill
     (section 77):


     (i)     Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 26 - 2002] (National
          Assembly - sec 77).

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on Protocol on Establishment of African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights, dated 21 June 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Protocol on the Establishment of the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights, referred to it, having consulted widely, including obtaining a legal opinion, and having noted that -

   1. in terms of section 167(3)(a) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996 (hereafter referred to as the Constitution), the Constitutional Court is the highest court in the land in respect of all constitutional matters;

   2. in terms of article 50 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights (hereafter referred to as the African Charter), the African Commission on Human and Peoples’ Rights (hereafter referred to as the African Commission) can only deal with a matter submitted to it after making sure that all local remedies, if they exist, have been exhausted, unless it is obvious to the African Commission that the procedure of achieving these remedies would be unduly prolonged;

   3. the jurisdiction of the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights (hereafter referred to as the African Court), when established in terms of article 1 of the Protocol on the Establishment of the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights (hereafter referred to as the Protocol), shall in terms of article 3(1) of the Protocol extend to all cases and disputes submitted to it concerning the interpretation and application of the African Charter, the Protocol and any other relevant human rights instrument ratified by the States concerned (in terms of article 7 of the Protocol the African Court shall apply the provisions of the African Charter and any other relevant human rights instrument ratified by the States concerned);

   4. in terms of article 2 of the Protocol, the African Court shall, bearing in mind the provisions of the Protocol, complement the protective mandate of the African Commission conferred upon it by the African Charter;

   5. if adopted, the Protocol will result in a complementary system of protection of human rights, one in terms of our Constitution and the other in terms of the African Charter (in other words, a case relating to the protection of human rights in terms of the African Charter must be adjudicated through our court system in terms of our Constitution before it can be dealt with in terms of the African Charter by the African Court);

   6. it will not be possible to appeal on human rights matters from the Constitutional Court to the African Court or from the African Court to the Constitutional Court;

   7. in terms of article 5 of the Protocol, only the African Commission, State Parties and African Intergovernmental Organisations have direct access to the African Court;

   8. in terms of article 34(6) of the Protocol, access to the African Court may be extended to relevant Non-Governmental Organisations and individuals in certain respects;

   9. the two systems will largely be complementary and mutually reinforcing of each other (on the one hand, our Constitutional Court, in terms of section 39(1)(b), is compelled, when interpreting the Bill of Rights, to consider international law; in this regard the pronouncements of the African Court will have a significant bearing on the development of our human rights jurisprudence; on the other hand, the African Court will, in terms of the Vienna Convention and the practices of international tribunals of a like nature, be influenced by the pronouncements of our courts);

   10. from a literal reading of articles 28(2) and 30 of the Protocol and a comparison thereof with section 167(3) of the Constitution, it has been suggested that there may be a potential conflict (however, in view of the above, the possibility of a conflict actually happening is remote within such a complementary system of protection of human rights);
   11. in terms of section 231(4) of the Constitution, international agreements only become law in the Republic when it is enacted into law by national legislation;

   recommends that-

       the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution,
       approve the said Protocol.
   

   The Committee further resolves that if the Executive at any stage makes a declaration in terms of article 34(6) of the Protocol accepting the competence of the Court to receive cases under article 5(3), such a declaration shall first be tabled in Parliament for approval.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 26 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 21 June 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 26 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a money Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy on the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill [B 15 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 24 June 2002:

 The Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, having considered the
 Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill [B 15 - 2002]
 (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the
 Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, presents the Mineral and
 Petroleum Resources Development Bill [B 15B - 2002] (National Assembly
 - sec 75).
 The Committee further reports as follows:


 A.     Committee Process


     The Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 19 April 2002.
     The Committee received extensive briefings on the Bill from the
     Department of Minerals and Energy, both before and after its
     introduction in the National Assembly.


     The Committee, jointly with the Select Committee on Economic and
     Foreign Affairs of the National Council of Provinces, then
     proceeded to advertise for public comment on the bill. A large
     number of submissions were received (a list of submissions
     received is attached as addendum A). Based on these submissions
     the Committee requested certain organisations and individuals to
     present oral evidence before it during the public hearings on the
     Bill. The public hearings were held at Parliament from 4 to 11
     June.
     The Committee, jointly with the Select Committee on Economic and
     Foreign Affairs, commenced its deliberations on the Bill on 12
     June and has worked long hours together with the Department and
     the State Law Advisers in order to process the Bill. During these
     deliberations it became evident that due to the extensive nature
     of the amendments being envisaged it would be feasible to present
     to Parliament a redrafted bill.


     In addition the Committees also conducted provincial public
     hearings from 8 to 9 June. Reports on these public hearings are
     detailed below.


 B.     Provincial Public Hearings


     1. Northern Cape, Springbok


          Mr M Moosa from the NCOP and Prof I Mohamed and Ms E Ngaleka
          of the National Assembly, accompanied by Ms F Sotenjwa
          (Committee Secretary), attended the public hearings in
          Springbok. The following organisations were in attendance:


          *   Nama Khoi District Municipality
          *   Pula Transformation Committee
          *   Namakhoi Ward Committee
          *   Richtersveld Municipality
         *    Richtersveld Transformation Committee
          *   Nama Khoi Diamond Fund Trust
          *   Richtersveld CPA
          *   Alexkor
          *   Swanson Enterprise
          *   Nama Khoi Klein Myn
          *   Groenhoekies Myn
          *   Black Mountain
          *   Trans Hex Group
          *   SAPD
          *   Provincial Department of Minerals and Energy


          The delegation also received a written submission from Mr
          Niewoudt from the Pula Transformation Committee.


          Mr B van Wyk explained the background of the Bill and its
          objectives. The three delegates from Parliament gave a
          detailed briefing of the Bill (clause by clause) to the
          audience. They also explained extensively the difference
          between prospecting rights, mining rights and mining permits,
          which seemed not to be clear to the communities. It was
          explained that the Bill intends to bring the small and big
          companies to work together, as well as how this should be
          done.


          The following concerns from the communities of the region were
          noted:


          (a) General concern from municipalities


              The key concern from representatives of municipalities of
              the region was the benefit of municipalities from this
              law. The small miners indicated that the Bill lacks the
              financial provision for the government to support the
              small miners to run their mines. Also, the State should
              indicate the criteria it will use to differentiate
              between the small and the big mine. It was noted that the
              small miners were concerned about whether the government
              would make suggestions when small and big miners enter
              into joint ventures contracts, and about how the
              government would monitor corruption in those contracts.
              The communities felt that workers should be the
              shareholders in companies. The government should assist
              the communities of Namaqualand to add value to many
              different minerals available in the region.


          (b) Clause 21 - application for renewal of mining right


              The concern from small miners was, if the first miner
              mines and rehabilitates and the second miner applies for
              the mining right for the same mine, whether the State
              would consider granting the permit to the second
              applicant.


          (c) Clause 24 - application for, issuing and duration of
              mining permit


              The communities felt that the two-year period of the
              mining permit that the Bill makes provision for, is too
              short. Due to funding problems the small miners would not
              have prospered enough within two years.


              The community of Namaqualand showed an interest to
              support the Bill.


     2. Limpopo Province, Mankweng


          Public hearings scheduled to take place in Mankweng on
          Saturday, 8 June 2002, did not materialise. It was found that
          communication between Parliament and the Provincial
          Legislature and between the Legislature and stakeholders were
          poor. Traditional leaders and leaders of civil society were
          not consulted. In addition, there was no feedback from the
          stakeholders as to whether they would be attending the
          hearings or not, and publicity in the media was not
          sufficient.


          The delegation was deeply concerned by non-attendance of the
          Provincial Legislature's committee members, though the matter
          was communicated to the provincial chairperson and to the
          provincial Speaker. Provinces should note that although this
          piece of legislation is classified as a national competence in
          terms of section 75 of the Constitution, the implications
          still have a direct bearing on provinces.


          The delegation also noted that conducting public hearings on a
          weekend is problematic for a number of reasons. It was also
          clear to the delegation that Mankweng was not a strategic
          place for hearings.


          The delegation recommended that the hearings for the Limpopo
          Province be rescheduled for a later date and that the
          Legislature should identify two or three venues at a time or
          Pietersburg. Furthermore, the day for hearings should be a
          normal working day. The Regional Office of the Department of
          Minerals and Energy should also be engaged more effectively in
          administrative and support areas. The House of Traditional
          Leaders in the province should also be directly consulted.


     3. North West and Free State


          The delegation consisted of Mr M Goniwe (Chairperson), Mr J
          Nash, Mr S K Louw, Ms N Cindi, Ms B Tinto, Mrs M M Ramakaba-
          Leseia and Mr S Mongwaketse of the National Assembly and Mr Z
          Kolweni of the National Council of Provinces. The delegation
          was accompanied by Ms N Hlasa (Committee Secretary).


          Public hearings in North West were held on 8 June and in the
          Free State on 9 June 2002. These hearings were advertised both
          nationally and locally in newspapers and on radio. In
          addition, an invitation was also extended to the provincial
          governments as well as to the relevant provincial portfolio
          committees, to attend the hearings and to give their views on
          the Bill, if they deemed it necessary.


          The following persons made oral presentations during the
          public hearings:


          North West


          *   Bantom Digging W/Stad
          *   Itireleng Small Diggers Association
          *   Forever Diamond W/Stad
          *   Thapelo Korai
          *   Manyeli Diamond Mining CC
          *   SAWIMA
          *   Natalia Tsietso
          *   Ubuntu Development Consol
          *   Mogopa Youth Commission
          *   Mogopa Trust
          Free State


          *   NUM
          *   Harmony Gold Mine (Me Malaola)
          *   COSATU Welkom (Teleko Maloka)
          *   Z A Twala
          *   Gold Fields Free State (MK Jolly)
          *   Oupa Khoabane (Premier's Office)
          *   Molapo Qhobela
          *   Lerato Lengau
          *   Branshish Brandy
          *   ANC Elijah Baray Branch
          *   Matjhabeng Municipality


          The Committee also received the following written submissions:


          *   Manyedi Diamond Mining & Associates cc
          *   Simon Maroga


          The organisations and members of the public who were at the
          public hearing recommended as follows:
          *   The Bill should also include a timeframe of issuing of
            licences


          *   Protect the rights of women in the mining business


          *   Educational capacity-building


          *   Health and safety of workers


          *   "Retrenchment Policy" - the number be reduced from 500 to
            maximum 200


          *   More clarity required on "Joint Venture", (Clear mechanism
            on how it should work and how people will be protected)


          *   "Social Plan" - a notice of at least 24 months must be
            given to implement the social plan. This requirement must be
            in the terms of reference


          *   "Geological Report" should be made available before
            signing contracts


          *   "Ownership" - are people not going to loose their lands?


          *   The Bill must include more environmental issues


          *   Contractors should be monitored in terms of LRA and BCE


          *   Risk Management Programmes be developed and properly
            implemented


          With regard to definitions:


          *   "Employee" should be the same as the definition in the
            Mining Act


          *   "Historically disadvantaged" should specifically mention
            women


          *   "Development" - the host towns should be developing as
            part of Social Plan


          *   "Mining area" should be clearly defined in the Bill


          The following concerns were also raised with the delegation:


          *   They received invitations to the public hearing very late
            and as a result they did not have enough time to go through
            the Bill


          *   The approach to the hearing in future should be that
            participants be grouped into three different categories:
            individuals, community and co-operations


          *   After the government has taken ownership, it must not
            privatise the mining industry


          *   The security fee is too high


          Apart from all the recommendations and concerns raised,
          organisations and members of the public were very happy that
          at long last the government is going to take control of all
          resources of this country and therefore the wealth will be
          distributed equitably.


 C.     Majority Party view


     The ANC fully supports the Bill, in the belief that it is wholly
     consistent with the policies of the current government, as well as
     in the best interests of the country as a whole.


     The ANC views the Bill as a milestone in the process of
     transforming the economy in order to undo the destructive legacy
     of apartheid. Mining and related industries still form the basis
     of the South African economy. Any piece of legislation which
     attempts, as the Bill does, to significantly change the ownership
     and control of such a sector, will arouse significant public
     controversy and opposition, especially from established players.
     This Bill has done so, and sharply divergent views have
     characterised the extensive public hearings and deliberations.
     Nevertheless, the ANC regards the process of deliberation on the
     Bill as thorough and in keeping with the exercise of the duties of
     Parliament.


     During the public hearings, various alarming allegations were
     raised against the Bill, including unconstitutionality, violation
     of bilateral and multilateral trade agreements, and undermining
     security of tenure. The ANC has carefully considered these
     potential pitfalls in the Bill, and is of the opinion that these
     are without substance. Where possible, amendments were made to the
     Bill to accommodate substantive stakeholder concerns, particularly
     with respect to rural communities which currently own mineral
     rights, and the inclusion of a labour component in the social
     plan. Other amendments were made to tighten up certain regulatory
     aspects of the Bill and to lower barriers to entry. The
     fundamental principles of the Bill were not compromised in this
     process.


 D.     Minority views


     1. Democratic Party


          The Democratic Party cannot support this Report.


          Firstly, it believes that the process for passing the Bill in
          the Committee has been rushed and totally inadequate
          contemplation has been given to the 80-odd representations to
          Parliament on the Bill. While some of the representations went
          to the principle of the Bill, many were constructive
          suggestions which addressed the structure and coherency of the
          Bill.


          Secondly, areas of the Bill which have not adequately been
          addressed, are the following:


          * The Bill's direct assault on the property rights clause of
            the Constitution


          * Security of tenure


          * The Minister's discretion


          * Lack of appeal to courts


          * Smooth transition from old order rights and new order rights


          * Beneficiation


          It must be emphasised that the Democratic Party is supportive
          of the broad empowerment and social objectives of the Bill,
          but believes that the delicate balance between these
          objectives and the need for the continued investment into the
          industry has not been achieved.


     2. United Democratic Movement


          The UDM supports the Bill in principle and recognises that the
          Bill is in line with the transformation of the mining and
          petroleum industry. The UDM further recognises that the
          objects of the Bill are internationally accepted and that the
          Bill seeks to address the inequalities and imbalances of the
          past and to promote equitable access to the nation's mineral
          wealth to all people in South Africa. There is no doubt that
          the Bill seeks to promote economic growth and development in
          South Africa.


          The UDM's concerns centre around the following:


          (a) Expansion of opportunities for previously disadvantaged
              persons


              The UDM finds it irreconciliable that some previously
              disadvantaged communities or persons to whom
              opportunities are supposed to be expanded, are in terms
              of the Bill going to be dispossessed of their mineral and
              surface rights. The Bill does not give recognition to the
              rights in land, inclusive of mineral rights, of the
              communities who have occupied and developed their land
              for several generations and centuries, e.g. the Bafokeng
              and Mphahlele tribes.


          (b) Land surface rights


              Black communities were harassed, tortured and their
              leaders detained and dispossessed of their land by both
              the colonial and apartheid regimes. They were made aliens
              in the land of their birth. Black South Africans will
              never forget apartheid's forceful removals, which were
              intended to deprive them of their ancestral land, e.g.
              King Makgoba, Chief Letsoalo, King Sekhukhune, Matoks
              communities and Chief Machaka and Chief Ramokgopa, to
              name a few. It will be unfortunate if black communities
              will still find themselves subjected to the above evils
              in terms of clauses 50, 51 and 52 of the Bill. The UDM
              believes and proposes that the provisions of clause 50(1)
              should not apply to previously disadvantaged people, in
              particular those who were affected by the obnoxious laws
              of forceful removals by the colonial and apartheid
              regimes. Alternatively a clause could be inserted which
              will provide that previously disadvantaged people will
              not be subjected to forceful removals.


              The UDM proposes further that communities which own land
              or who are occupiers of land where prospecting and mining
              operations are to be conducted should not be affected by
              the provisions of clause 51(1) and (2). The communities
              should instead be assisted to obtain prospecting and
              mining rights, while the State remains the custodian of
              the nation's mineral rights. The Minister's powers to
              expropriate in the present format of the Bill will
              undoubtedly result in confrontation and forceful removal
              of a large number of communities, as was the case during
              the dark days of the apartheid regime. The UDM agrees
              with the Legal Resource Centre (LRC) that one of the
              primary purposes underlying the enactment of sections
              25(6) to 25(8) of the Constitution is the need to redress
              the injustices flowing from the failure of the colonial
              and apartheid regimes to afford recognition and dignity
              to land rights held in terms of indigenous law. It
              further agrees with the LRC that the Land Restitution Act
              gives effect to the constitutional requirement (i.e.
              section 25(7) of the Constitution) to provide either
              restitution or equitable redress to people or communities
              dispossessed of their land after 19 June 1913 as a result
              of racially discriminatory laws and practices of the
              past. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs is on
              course in implementing this constitutional requirement.
              We strongly believe that the provisions of sections 50,
              51 and 52 of the Bill will defeat the object of land
              restitutions.


          (c) Constitutionality of Bill


              The UDM agrees that the Constitutional Court in one of
              its previous judgments found that it was extremely rare
              to make mention of mineral rights within a property
              clause in some other Constitutions, and that it could
              certainly not be said to be a universally accepted
              fundamental right. In case of Lebowa Mineral Trust
              Beneficiaries Forum vs. President of South Africa, the
              ruling by Judge J Daniels was based on the fact that
              mineral rights were not protected by section 25 of the
              Constitution. The UDM believes, however, that Judge J
              Daniels based, with all humility, his finding on a
              misunderstanding of the previous judgment of the
              Constitutional Court. It is true that the Constitutional
              Court never found that the constitutional drafters did
              not intend to protect mineral rights in section 25.


              The UDM's information is that the Lebowa Mineral Trust
              Beneficiaries Forum still contend strongly that section
              25(4) of the Constitution does not restrict the concept
              of property to land only, but that whatever the wide
              scope of the constitutional meaning of property may be,
              it would include the real rights in respect of land. It
              is for this reason that the Lebowa Mineral Trust
              Beneficiaries Forum is preparing to test the
              constitutionality of the Abolition of the Lebowa Mineral
              Trust Act in the Constitutional Court. The UDM believes
              that a land-owner remains owner until such time as the
              mineral is severed from the earth.


          (d) Royalties


              The UDM supports the view that provision for payment of
              royalties should be made in the money bill, and proposes
              consequently that both the Minerals and Petroleum
              Resources Bill and the money bill be considered by the
              National Assembly concommitantly. The UDM proposes, in
              conclusion, that royalties should be paid to communities
              in whose areas mining takes place.


          (e) Transitional arrangements


              The UDM's area of concern in this regard is security of
              tenure over existing prospecting and mining and mineral
              rights, existing agreements between mining and
              exploration companies and holders of "old order" rights,
              and compensation for foreign investments made into South
              African minerals industry. The UDM's main concern is that
              ambiguity and uncertainty which may exist upon passage of
              the Bill may scare foreign investors and thus defeat the
              objects of the Bill.


              The UDM suggest therefore, in conclusion, that the Bill
              be sent to the Constitutional Court for concurrence
              before it is promulgated.


 E.     Conclusion


     The Committee wishes to express its appreciation to all those
     stakeholders who made submissions to and interacted with the
     Committee during its deliberations on the Bill.




     Addendum A - List of Submissions Received (71)


     NO NAME


     [A]     MATTEW LOTTER
        SA DIAMOND PRODUCERS
        ORGANISATION


     [B]     PETER MEAKIN
        AIAVSA VALUER


     [C]     J KATZEFF
        LIME SALES LTD


     [D]     L V READ
        EXICO
     [E]     POST MOLOTO
        MINERAL RIGHTS ASSOCIATION  OF
                   INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN SA


     [F]     ANTON VON BELOW


     [G-G1]  FOREIGN INVESTORS
                   PROSPECTING & MINING FORUM SA (A SAAD)


     [H]     RICHARDS BAY MINERALS


     [I]     KELGRAN AFRICA & MARLIN CORPORATION


     [J,J3]  NEW DIAMOND CORPORATION (NDC)
     [J1]    NAKA


     [K]     RIO TINTO


     [L]     PLACER DOME SA


     [M-M1]  TOTAL EXPLORATION SA (PTY) LIMITED
     [N]     FUEL RETAILERS ASSOCIATION OF SA


     [O]     JOHN HANDLEY


     [P]     ANDREAS SEEPI


     [Q]     BRINK, BONSMA & DE BRUYN


     [R]     M ROSENBERG ATTORNEYS


     [S]     NAMAQUALAND TRANSFORMATION COMMITTEES


     [T-T3]  PETROLEUM AGENCY SA


     [U]     PROSPECTORS & DEVELOPERS ASSOCIATION
        OF CANADA (PDAC)


     [V]     BHP BILLITON


     [W-W1]  AGRISA


     [X-X3]  LEGAL RESOURCES CENTRE
     [Y]     WERKSMANS ATTORNEYS


     [Z]     CHAMBER OF MINES


     [AA-AA1]      ANGLO AMERICAN PLATINUM CORPORATION LTD


     [BB]    RUSTENBERG PLATINUM MINES LTD


     [CC]    POTGIETERSRUST PLATINUMS LTD


     [DD]    LEBOWA PLATINUM MINES LTD


     [EE-EE4]      DE BEERS


     [FF]    SAMREC (WEBBER, WENTZEL, BOWENS)


     [GG]    MAROTA MOHLALETSE TRIBAL AUTHORITY


     [HH]    AFC LIMITED


     [II]    CHIEF REGISTRAR OF DEEDS


     [JJ]    MICHAEL MARTINSON


     [KK]    PIONEER NATURAL RESOURCES SA


     [LL]    FOREST EXPLORATION INTERNATIONAL
        (SA) (PTY) LTD


     [MM]    ANGLOGOLD LIMITED


     [NN]    AQUARIUS PLATINUM


     [OO]    RANGOLD & EXPLORATION


     [PP]    MINE HEALTH & SAFETY COUNCIL


     [QQ]    NORTON ROSE


     [RR]    ROYAL BAFOKENG NATION


     [SS]    ASIA MINERALS SA


     [TT]    JACOBA LANGLEY


     [UU]    FREE MARKET FOUNDATION
     [VV-VV1]      IMPALA PLATINUM HOLDINGS


     [WW]    J SCHEEPERS


     [XX]    F J KRUGER & G LEVIN


     [YY]    ENF ENVIRONMENTAL LAW DEPARTMENT


     [ZZ-ZZ3]      OFFSHORE PETROLEUM ASSOCIATION OF SA (OPASA)


     [AAA]   LISA PLIT


     [BBB]   ANGLO AMERICAN


     [CCC]   HAROLD MOTAUNG (AFICAN MINERALS ASSOCIATION)


     [DDD]   DIAMOND DEVELOPMENT GROUP


     [EEE]   SA MINING DEVELOPMENT ASSOCIATION


     [FFF]   RIGGERS DIGGERS MINING & EXPLORATION CO
     [GGG]   MMAKAU MINING


     [HHH]   BAKGATLA-BA-KGAFELA


     [III]   BAKWENA BA MOGOPA


     [JJJ]   MIKE BALL


     [KKK]   ADV BHEKI NDLOVU


     [LLL]   GEORGE KHUNOU


     [MMM]   PAT MKHIZE ATTORNEYS


     [NNN-
     NNN1]   WEBBER, WENTZEL, BOWENS


     [OOO]   COSATU/NUM


     [PPP]   PROF THOMAS WALDE


     [QQQ]   CNR


     [RRR]   KODUMELA MINING CONSORTIUM
     [SSS]   PAUL JOURDAN

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology on Visit to Vlakplaas, dated 4 June 2002:

 The Portfolio Committee of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology (the
 Committee), having visited Vlakplaas from 14 to 16 December 2001,
 reports as follows:


A.      Introduction


     1. National Centre for Traditional Healing and Reconciliation


          One of the categories of Indigenous Knowledge Systems (IKS) is
          institutions, the oldest and most complex of which, with great
          potential to contribute to the 21st century, is traditional
          healing.


          There are different aspects of traditional healing which need
          scrutiny, analysis and understanding so as to find their
          relevance to modern life and the healing systems of the 21st
          century within the context of the global village. The history
          of traditional healing in South Africa needs to be recorded.
          If South Africa is the cradle of humanity and the source of
          the first forms of life, traditional healing here must be the
          oldest in the world. As indicated by the different aspects of
          traditional healing, it is a basis, a point of reference of
          culture in South Africa, as well as a cultural guardian and
          custodian.


          All public hearings and discussions on IKS have consistently
          pointed out that, because traditional healing is one of the
          oldest forms of IKS, and one of the most enduring and
          functional, it features in all discussions and is cross-
          cutting among categories, e.g. social, biodiversity and
          technology. In its relation to culture, it seeks to harmonise
          the nation through healing, and is consistent in linking
          healing and human life to its sources and basis. It is also
          insistent on relating the individual to the whole and the
          community to the individual.


          The discussions held with the Traditional Healers' Forum (the
          Forum) from 14 to 16 December 2001 revealed two very distinct
          categories within traditional healing:
          *   Healing


          *   Witchcraft


     2. Healing


          In common with most healing systems, the traditional healing
          system is linked to a system of beliefs. The basic belief
          system of traditional healing is the link between the science
          of healing and the prevailing power of ancestors and God.
          There is, however, special emphasis on the intervention and
          prevailing powers of ancestors. It is on this basis that
          healing, in its holistic approach to health, involves
          spiritual, mental and physical health, using Ukuphahla
          (praising the ancestors), Amathambo (bones) and Umuthi
          (medicine) to retain quality of life for the human being.
          Diagnosis of a person involves the environment, the community,
          the extended family and the family lineage into life after
          death, which makes people's dreams most relevant to their
          lives and their healing. The detail of all of these aspects
          overlap in respect of religion, science, technology and IKS in
          terms of rituals and symbols. Occidental medicines are also
          recognised and its healing systems and institutions are used
          through referrals.


     3. Witchcraft


          If by witchcraft is meant activities informed by evil
          knowledge and evil intentions which harm other human beings,
          then most traditional healers, "Inyanga, Dingaka",
          disassociate themselves from it. However, as far as the system
          of traditional healing has objectives to protect, defend and
          promote (as captured in the African philosophy "Motho ke Motho
          ka Batho", that can be paraphrased as "a person is a person
          because of others"), all means can be used to defend the
          existence of that philosophy. It is here where the
          Constitution and the law, as with every other human activity
          in the country, must intervene as far as traditional healing
          is concerned. It is also for this reason that traditional
          healing in South Africa must be recognised, organised and
          located within the 21st century and global village context. It
          is only then that its potential for social, cultural and
          economic value and contribution can be fully realised.


     4. 14-16 December - Vlakplaas


          On these days, an unprecedented event took place in Pretoria,
          when approximately 700 traditional healers converged on the
          apartheid killing field of Vlakplaas. The aim was, first and
          foremost, to hold discussions about the role and future of
          traditional healing in the new South Africa and to signal to
          the nation the healing and reconciliatory role of traditional
          healing. In addition, the institution of traditional healing
          wished to declare its position on many key issues of nation
          healing, witchcraft, crime, HIV/AIDS politics, culture, the
          economy, etc.


          The deliverables for 14 to 16 December included:


          (a) Laying a basis for the creation of one voice for one of
              the oldest institutions in our country.


          (b) Signalling to the nation the role of traditional healing
              in the 21st century and in the global context.


          (c) Considering the viability of Vlakplaas being transformed
              into a National Centre for Traditional Healing and
              Reconciliation.


          (d) Expressing willingness to participate in the national
              effort for a moral regeneration of our society.


     5. Meetings held: 14 and 15 December 2001


          It is important to point out that the event held on the
          abovementioned days at Vlakplaas, which has set in motion a
          process for traditional healing to be recognised, reorganised,
          regularised and located in its own right and on the basis of
          its belief system within 21st century healing systems, was a
          joint organisational effort of the:


          (a) Committee


          (b) National Department of Health


          (c) National Department of Arts, Culture, Science and
              Technology (the Department)


          (d) National Department of Public Works


          (e) National Forum of Traditional Healers
          (f) IKS Steering Committee (Steering Committee)


          (g) Clinix Health Group


     6. Meetings held


          (a) Clinix is the Organisation of African Doctors in SA and
              the Forum of Traditional Healers. Agreements were reached
              to explore collaboration and co-operation based on an
              understanding that the two could complement each other in
              respect of providing healing and health to the nation.


          (b) The Committee met with the Forum in a public hearing, with
              about 700 traditional healers present. Agreement was
              reached to further explore the feasibility of Vlakplaas
              being transformed into a National Centre for Traditional
              Healing and Reconciliation, and that the Committee would
              explore the feasibility of legislation to effect the
              above.


          (c) The Steering Committee also met with the Forum, and
              agreement was reached to form a joint team to put in
              place terms of reference and a modus operandi for a task
              team to advise the Steering Committee on what must happen
              after 16 December, in order to ensure the realisation of
              the emergence of the National Centre for Traditional
              Healing, effectively transforming Vlakplaas.


          (d) Other discussions were held between the Department, the
              IKS Secretariat and the Department of Public Works, the
              Department of Health, the Committee, the National Forum
              of Traditional Healers, Clinix and the IKS Steering
              Committee. The result of these discussions was a common
              understanding on Vlakplaas and on what the objectives of
              the event of 15 and 16 December 2001 would be.


     7. Funders


          The Department and the Business Trust against Crime were the
          major funders of the event. Other funders were the CSIR, the
          NRF, SAFA, Eugene Jackson of Sorghum Breweries (who
          contributed mqombothi), SAB and the ARC, Dr Peter Matseke of
          Eskom (who provided electricity), and the Municipality of
          Tshwane (who provided clean running water).


     8. 16 December - National Reconciliation Day


          On the evening of 15 December, a cow was slaughtered as a
          sacrifice and as a request for the ancestors to bless the
          proceedings on 16 December, which started at 08:00 and ended
          at 13:00. Each province, after sacrificing a chicken and a
          goat the previous day, had to drum, sing and dance to invoke
          the ancestors to bless the symbolic ceremony for
          reconciliation, and to realise the wishes, intentions and
          requests expressed in the main ceremony. It was a most moving
          moment as the approximately 700 traditional healers from the
          nine provinces came together with one agenda, expressing their
          wish to be recognised by the nation and to locate the oldest
          of the IKS institutions in the 21st century in support of the
          African Renaissance.


 B.     Observations and conclusion


     Is it true that there are 200 000 traditional healers and that the
     number is growing rapidly, with more and more professionals
     joining the ranks of this institution? Is it true that 80% of our
     population, across race, class, sex and religious denominations,
     use traditional healers? Is it true that an immune booster for
     HIV/AIDS patients exists collectively among traditional healers,
     to the extent that it can improve quality of life in this area? Is
     it true that, besides being a counselling service for a large
     section of our population, including terminally ill patients,
     traditional healing also serves as a community hospice? Are these
     facts? Are they significant and is it true that this sector, this
     institution which plays a very important role socially, especially
     among the poor, but also among the wealthy, educated and
     professional, remains informal, underground, unrecognised,
     unregulated? Is it true that besides the role it plays in healing
     and in health, it has a key role which is unrecognised in the
     environment?


     The event of 14 to 16 December at the notorious Vlakplaas, which
     took place through the initiative and support of the stated
     organisations and individuals, was extremely important for South
     Africa. It was the opening of dialogue with the poor,
     disadvantaged and marginalised sections of our society, through
     their most trusted healing and health institution; it is a means
     to go back to the drawing board to consider the moral fibre and
     moral regeneration, as well as the spiritual, mental and physical
     health of the nation; it is a possibility given to us to re-
     explore the flora and fauna of our land by using oral research to
     understand the potential which exists within these for human life;
     it is a moment of potential to find successful treatments for
     diseases like malaria, cancer, HIV/AIDS, etc, and other chronic
     diseases like asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.


     It is believed that if we engage this institution objectively, we
     will unearth all kinds of possibilities. Here, in the year 2002,
     we will discover under-utilised human resources that are vital for
     our nation, but challenges us to think big and turn the unknown
     into the known to enhance this oldest form of practice, using its
     experience and transforming the institution from being one of
     resistance to being a tool of the African Renaissance.


     Prepared by: Mongane Wally Serote IKS Chairperson


 C.     Objectives of visit
     In November 1997, a group of African intellectuals met at Venda
     University. It was agreed that the Committee should spearhead the
     following process:


     *  Discuss and formulate strategies that can enhance public
         awareness of Science and Technology within marginalised and
         disadvantaged communities


    *   How the Public Awareness Programmes and processes can be
         implemented


     It was further agreed that the National Centre of Indigenous
     Knowledge at Vlakplaas was tasked with bringing to the fore the
     frustrations of IKS, also to take the IKS to a practical level.
     Vlakplaas, by virtue of its potential to grow natural vegetation,
     was identified as a site that could encourage job-creation
     projects and as a place of healing. The focus would be to preserve
     herbs and plants linked to traditional healing. Other objectives
     of the visit were:


     1. To safeguard, preserve, research and promote the cultural
          heritage and empirical IKS.


     2. To ensure the survival of indigenous cultures and recognition
          of customary laws and practices.


     3. To facilitate access to indigenous medicines and encourage
          traditional medical practitioners.


     4. To integrate, enhance and validate traditional and local
          knowledge and practices.


     5. To create, encourage and support SMMEs in the field of IKS.


 D.     Delegation


     Delegation to Vlakplaas


     Dr M W Serote -     Leader of delegation (ANC)
     Mr S L Dithebe      -    ANC
     Mrs M A A Njobe     -    ANC
     Ms N M Tsheole      -    ANC
     Mrs S F Baloyi      -    ANC
     Ms A M Maziya -     ANC
     Mrs N D Mbombo      -    ANC
     Ms H M Mpaka  -     ANC
     Ms N S Mtsweni      -    ANC
     Ms O N Mndende      -    UDM
     Ms T Gayi     -     Committee Secretary
     Ms S Mashao   -     Committee Assistant


     Members of Forum


     Mr S J Mhlongo      -     KwaZulu-Natal (Chairperson)
     Mr S Nduku    -     Eastern Cape
     Mr L Moropodi -     Gauteng
     Ms M Gamndana -     Mpumalanga
     Mrs M E Mahumapelo  -    Northern Cape
     Mr M Ramothwalo     -    Northern Province
     Ms N Hawker   -     Western Cape
     Mr J Moloi    -     Free State
     Ms M Motsiwa  -     North West


     IKS Secretariat
     Ms S Williams -     Project Co-ordinator
     Mr O Ntsoane
     Ms J Mufamadi
     Dr P M Guma
     Mr B Mtimkhulu
     Ms J Chawapiwa-Pama


     Arrival and welcoming - 14 December 2002


     The first group of people to arrive at Vlakplaas was the Forum and
     the Committee Secretariat. Upon arrival, caterers were already
     busy and lunch was served.


     Meetings
     The first meeting was held between Forum members and the Clinix.
     In attendance was Dr Serote, Mr Peter Matseke (MD Clinix), Dr
     Matsidiso Kaeane (Vaal Independent Practitioners' Association), Dr
     T P Thulo (Clinix) and Jean Chawapiwa-Pama (CSIR Communication),
     all members of the Forum.


     The delegation from Clinix gave us a brief background about
     Clinix. It was formed by a group of black doctors, whose task was
     to organise all general practitioners to work together in terms of
     managing projects related to HIV and traditional healing.


     The traditional healers raised concerns on:


     *  The delegation's relationship with "Doctors for Life", who came
          to Parliament and created a bad impression


     *  The attitude doctors have when it comes to traditional healing


     *  A lack of respect and not being recognised as healers


     *  Doctors who do not refer patients to them


     *  Herbs originally found by them, but them not being mentioned in
          the end product


     *  Traditional healers are not recognised by medical aid schemes


     The delegation responded to these concerns very positively - they
     are not related to "Doctors for Life". It has been their wish to
     work with traditional healers. They found that some of their
     diagnoses were good - for example, when a patient needed a blood
     test, they would refer him to hospital. There are doctors who work
     directly with traditional healers and show them how to perform
     circumcision. They have been to Nigeria, where they observed that
     many western doctors do work with traditional healers. The doctors
     are prepared to form a very close relationship, work on areas of
     common interest and share knowledge they have. A lack of
     communication is the main cause for the gap between doctors and
     traditional healers.


     Task team meeting with members of Forum - 14 December


     A second meeting was held with the Forum and IKS, and was chaired
     by Dr Serote. All Forum members were present, except one from
     North West. Gogo Stella reported back, being leader of the task
     team. The main purpose of the meeting was for the task team to
     report back on the logistics, preparations and developments of the
     function. This included the hiring of tents for the nine
     provinces, chairs, toilets and catering.


     Dr Serote introduced members of the task team, and briefed Forum
     members on how the task team had been formed. It was elected on 24
     November 2001 to see to the smooth running of and logistics behind
     the organisation of the event. The report of the task team was
     then delivered by Ms Stella Williams.


     Report of task team


     *  Ms Stella Williams explained the situation at Vlakplaas, and
          how everything was organised up to the last day. Nine tents
          were organised for each province, and there was also a tent
          that served as dining hall for guests and MPs. One tent was
          reserved for meetings and two tents served as bathrooms for
          females and males. Toilets were also organised and kept clean
          at all times


     *  Catering was organised
     *  The SAPS was there for security reasons 24 hours a day


     *  Paramedics were available for emergencies


     Sponsors


     *  National Sorghum Brewery    -    traditional brewery


     *  SAPS - stage


     *  Jacksons - two cows


     *  CSIR


     *  ARC


     *  SA Breweries - beer


     *  The Department


     Questions raised
     It being common knowledge that the place was not familiar to most
     people, some were not even sure if the ceremony would erase the
     past and whether people were going to react positively to what was
     being done at Vlakplaas. A lot of questions were raised by
     concerned individuals, especially traditional healers.


     *  What will happen after 16 December 2001


     *  Will more people visit the place, or is the place going to be
          restricted


     Each province could offer a chicken and a goat as sacrifice to the
     ancestors. By this, they were uniting the spirit and souls of the
     people who died at Vlakplaas and their ancestors, so as to ensure
     that they would rest in peace. They were healing the wounds of
     those who had suffered during the apartheid era, who had died
     because they believed they have a right to be free.


     During this time all the traditional healers were beating drums,
     dancing and singing, according to their different cultures. One
     could see they were really feeling that the past was behind them.
     They were pouring their hearts out to the ancestors, and were very
     emotional. All prayers and sacrifices meant that they were there
     to claim the place.


     15 December 2001


     A meeting was held between the Committee, the Forum and IKS. The
     meeting was chaired by Ms Tsheole, MP.


     Dr Serote welcomed all the people who came from different
     provinces to honour this special day. He mentioned that people who
     died at Vlakplaas were freedom fighters, fighting for liberation
     and democracy for all in South Africa.


     Traditional healers were there to share views with MPs and come up
     with questions and comments:


     *  How will traditional healers use Vlakplaas, should it be given
          to them


     *  As they were moving around, they asked where they could plant
          traditional herbs


     *  How an Act of Parliament could help them


     *  Why were hospitals not sending people to them, even though they
          had sent patients to hospitals


     *  What was the difference between traditional healers who heal
          and those who practice witchcraft


     Traditional healers were so impressed to be given an opportunity
     to express their views that they said it was the first time they
     felt the government was starting to recognise their existence,
     even before any Act existed. It was an historic occasion - the
     healers felt proud to see MPs listening to their views and beliefs
     and watching their performances.
     They were quite happy, although there was no formal law
     recognising them at that point, but the presence of government
     delegations meant a lot to them. They did not want to dwell on
     history, when the government treated them very badly. This has
     been overcome by what was happening at that moment.


     The traditional healers' mission to visit Vlakplaas was to set the
     record straight, because a lot of incorrect information had been
     spread about them and they had not had a chance to rectify these.
     They also appreciated the presence of the media, as they felt
     these were the people broadcasting wrong information, be it rape
     or witchcraft. They were also concerned about the absence of white
     MPs during such a memorable occasion.


     They believed the rivers and mountains are home to the ancestors,
     but in Vlakplaas it was the other way round. These were used for
     killing people by the apartheid government. They felt the meeting
     was so useful to them because in their history it was the first
     time to meet as traditional healers from all nine provinces of
     South Africa.


     They explained themselves by pointing out that there are different
     categories of traditional healers - there are those born with the
     calling, and then those who, when they grow up, experience a need
     to join the calling. There are traditional healers who specialise
     in treating certain kinds of sicknesses and illnesses.


     They would appreciate if an agreement could be reached with the
     government on the issue of Vlakplaas. Above all, they hoped to
     convert the place into a learning school for traditional healers,
     and to build a hospital so that those in the learning stage could
     learn healing and plant herbs there, and would also be able to
     test the herbs, which could be of valuable use for the community.
     It could be used as a laboratory and a traditional healers'
     hospital.


     Some traditional healers who went to the river, found some
     valuable and good herbs, used to cure certain illness. One example
     was that of a healer recognising a herb that can help someone who
     does not have enough blood.


     They pleaded with MPs and government officials to take their
     request and knowledge to Parliament - that they are able to cure
     many diseases, including high blood pressure. Their main problem
     as traditional healers is that they need funds to run some of
     their projects. They do not get financial assistance from banks to
     buy houses. Some of them, although illiterate, have an abundance
     of knowledge of herbs, healing, plant life, environmental care,
     etc. They hoped that the meeting would be the start of creating a
     resource centre on traditional healing, based on research and
     experience.


     Traditional Leaders (Chiefs) also voiced their gratitude for being
     invited to such an historical event. They could go back to their
     respective provinces with proper information about traditional
     healing. They said that in their culture traditional healing was
     their foundation. They also knew of some church leaders who used
     herbs to strengthen their churches, but in cases like these they
     did not want to come forward.


     16 December 2001


     The meeting on the last day of the ceremony was chaired by Gogo
     Stella. The provinces wanted to show their traditional dances, and
     every province was given a chance to do so.


     Dr Serote greeted everyone and confirmed that it was a very
     beautiful ceremony and that the sun was shining, also a sign of
     beauty. For the past three days beautiful things have been done -
     meetings about Vlakplaas becoming a Centre for Traditional
     Healing; we have prayed to God to bless us; and the traditional
     healers have also talked to our ancestors so that the whole
     ceremony could be pleasant, as it has been.


     Dr Serote assured the people that the spirit of no surrender of
     the freedom fighters who were murdered here, exists in Parliament
     as well, and that it also exists in the history of traditional
     healing, which means that a spirit of no surrender will also apply
     to Vlakplaas to help keep this place for us.


     He thanked everyone who worked with him from the beginning in
     planning the ceremony. He thanked the MPs for making time to
     attend, despite their many commitments. Even when the issue of
     Vlakplaas was discussed, they were also keen to make this a day to
     remember and also to be there when this place was recognised as
     the Centre for Traditional Healing and Reconciliation. A word of
     special appreciation was extended to people like Gogo Stella
     Williams, who went out of her way to make the event as memorable
     and as special as it was, IKS members who were always there when
     asked to attend meetings, Azeza Fredericks, who could not attend
     the ceremony due to religious constraints but who also worked very
     hard to make the event a success, Jean Chawapiwa-Pama (CSIR
     Communications) and her team who worked tirelessly in respect of
     communications, making sure that everyone was informed about the
     event, Natasha Ramiah, Tamara Gayi (Committee Secretary) and
     Shirly Mashao (Committee Assistant) for the wonderful work they
     have done. The Chairperson of the Forum was also thanked for
     everything he had taught us. He also mentioned that he had worked
     with Mr Mhlongo, and as a result a task team was formed that would
     see how the place could be used in future.


     Dr Serote further mentioned some of the problems that traditional
     healers are experiencing and some of the bad things they are
     always accused of. For instance, traditional healers are always
     accused of referring people who are HIV-positive to sleep with
     little babies so that the disease can be cured - traditional
     healers claim that they never tell people to do that. They are
     always accused of stealing children to make medicine. All this is
     not true about traditional healers, as they heal people, not kill
     them. There is a difference between them and witch doctors, those
     believed to practise witchcraft.


     Speaking on behalf of the Committee, Dr Serote assured everyone
     that all MPs present there to witness the event would listen to
     everything said and done and forward it to Parliament. He also
     told all traditional healers that the doors of Parliament are wide
     open for them if they need to discuss anything, and also assured
     them that the partnership they have formed will be effective and
     efficient. Also speaking on behalf of everyone there, he wanted
     the President of the country to know that here was an African
     Renaissance and that history has been started at Vlakplaas. They
     also wanted him to know everything about what has been discussed
     and done at Vlakplaas.


     The following session was chaired by Mr Solly Nduku


     Mr Nduku asked all traditional healers to sing traditional Zulu
     songs, and the Chairperson of the Traditional Healers in KwaZulu-
     Natal was also asked to come forward. Each group was given 15
     minutes to come forward and perform their dances.
     Mr Mhlongo greeted everyone and thanked Dr Serote for bringing
     them to Vlakplaas and to experience such a wonderful ceremony. He
     continued by saying that he had been suspicious that Baba Serote
     is a traditional healer and has confronted him about that -  he
     was told that his great-grandfather and his grandfather were
     traditional healers. He then introduced the Members of the
     Traditional Healers' Forum and asked them to come forward: Baba
     Moloi (Orange Free State), Ms Nomsa Hawker (Western Cape), Mr
     Solloy Nduku (Eastern Cape), Baba Moropdi (Gauteng), Baba
     Ramotwala (Northern Province) MaDlamini Gamndana (Mpumalanga).


     After introducing all the members of the Forum, Mr Mhlongo said
     there were allegations about encouraging people to rape children
     to cure HIV/AIDS, and that he believed that none of the
     traditional healers present there had ever made such a statement.
     If there was any such person, he would ask that person to come
     forward. He urged traditional healers to distance themselves from
     people who do dirty things in the name of holiness.


     On the issue of HIV/AIDS, they categorically denied the
     accusations put to them. He pleaded to traditional healers to
     consider the HIV/AIDS matter seriously, and not to neglect it.
     [There is a Zulu idiom, of which the literal translation is: "Once
     you are attacked, the attacker can kill you, therefore everyone
     must be extremely careful".] He also said he believed that in
     Africa there is a cure for AIDS and that it lies upon our
     shoulders to go out there and search for the cure. Furthermore, he
     said he believed in our medicine, but also in our ancestors to
     enlighten and assist us in discovering the cure and to protect us,
     as we are now going to be protected from those "thieves" who come
     and steal our knowledge and medicine and sell these at higher
     prices. He urged the government to encourage doctors and hospitals
     to send people to traditional healers so that they can also
     participate in the healing of this deadly disease.


     He went on to say that that day was the Day of African
     Renaissance, to revive humanity, because seemingly humanity has
     lost "ubuntu". People are killing one another, they commit
     suicide, they rape children and are disrespective of elders. This
     all shows that we have lost "ubuntu". He concluded by saying that
     traditional healers have taken a back seat in leading, which is
     why society has lost direction.


     One of the major problems of traditional healers is the media, who
     is always reporting badly on traditional healers and not praising
     them when they perform well. The Ukuphahla KweSizwe document was
     distributed to everyone and was read by Mr Mhlongo. Everyone was
     asked to stand and follow him as he read the document.
 E.     Recommendations


     1. Part of the land can be used to grow herbs, as the area is
          known to be very rich in herbs. Some traditional healers have
          already recognised some of the herbs they use to heal people
          and urged that no herbs are taken until the ceremony is over
          and until the place is declared a tourism centre.


     2. A museum could also be built to reflect what is happening at
          Vlakplaas, so that tourists and families could visit it and
          learn more.


     3. The place could also act as a tourism village, where each and
          every South African culture could be represented.


     4. A business plan needs to be drawn up in accordance with the
          pace of the organisation, and it should be 60% funded by the
          government.
     5. Private companies should be operating there.


     6. There should be a clinic where general practitioners and
          traditional healers could have their practices.