TUESDAY, 11 JUNE 2004 _____

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                _____

The Council met at 09:07.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I would like to inform members that there is one speakers’ list to deal with the first, second and third orders of the day.

Once more, before I go to the speakers’ list, I would like to thank all three Ministers who agreed when we requested that we cluster this debate. It is more than merely the clustering; it is for our understanding on how the department works as well, particularly as the NCOP. This clustering helps us so that when we go the provinces we understand what is happening within the departments. We want to thank all three Ministers for accepting this type of clustering and putting this into one debate.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 6 - Public Works; Vote No 29 - Housing; Vote No 33 - Transport:

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, my colleagues the Ministers of Housing and Transport, the Deputy Minister of Public Works, MECs for public works, the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Public Works, hon members, the director-general and his team, including provincial heads of departments, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I must explain before I speak that I was never consulted.

Today, as we deal with the Public Works Budget, we have in mind the people out there who are keen to know what we as a department will do to deliver on our mandate and to honour the people’s contract.

Five years ago we punctuated our operations with a call for improved service delivery characterised by an intensive implementation phase. We simply entitled our pledge Mintirho ya vulavula [Actions speak louder than words] and we vowed to stop at nothing better than improving our business processes and other practices. We are encouraged by the progress we have made.

Regarding service delivery and programme improvement, our starting point was a transformation process aimed at realigning the departmental operations in order to deliver a high quality service. Thus the regional operations of the department have been strengthened through capacity- building and delegations of powers to make client satisfaction a central focus of their business. A generic service level agreement has been developed to formalise service relationships between my department and our clients.

It is my honour to table my department’s appropriation of R4,8 billion for this fiscal year. Whilst this amount represents a 10% increase compared to the previous year, it is still not sufficient to meet all our needs, particularly regarding the maintenance backlog on government buildings. In this regard, my department is currently developing a comprehensive maintenance plan so that we can make more convincing and credible arguments for increased funding for maintenance in the forthcoming year.

Nine hundred and seventy capital works projects are already at various planning stages for this financial year. These projects are spread across the nine provinces, with the Western Cape commanding the highest number of projects - 168. The rest are broken down as follows: North West, 162; KwaZulu-Natal, 152; Gauteng, 132; Eastern Cape, 107; Mpumalanga, 83; Free State, 81; Northern Cape, 50 and Limpopo, 24.

Provision of physical accommodation to Government and its departments for enhanced public service delivery remains a key function of my department. In the previous financial year we spent R1,85 billion on capital works, including R364 million on planned maintenance as part of our extensive building programme nationally. Major progress made includes the R108 million upgrading of the Port Elizabeth magistrate’s office. There is also the construction of two magistrate’s courts for justice in the Gauteng province; one is being completed at a cost of R50 million in Randburg and the other R43 million in Tembisa. The other projects involve the upgrading and maintenance of the Klerksdorp Prison in the North West and the Cullinan Prison in Gauteng, which will cost R90 million and R70 million respectively. In the Free State we are currently busy with construction totalling R15,5 million for a new maternity ward at the Bloemfontein Military Hospital, as well as completing the Namahadi Police Station near Frankfort at a cost of R15,3 million.

Seventeen new properties were acquired and registered at the Deeds Office at a total cost of R16,77 million. The majority of these properties were for the purposes of accommodating the South African Police Service and the Scorpions.

The Gauteng province was the major beneficiary of this process, with the acquisition of a farm for the Scorpions worth R9 million and five other properties below R1 million were acquired on behalf of the SAPS. The next highest number of properties the department bought went to the Free State. The Department of Public Works acquired three properties in the Eastern Cape on behalf of the Department of Water Affairs and the SAPS and two in the Western Cape on behalf of the Department of Water Affairs. The department acquired two properties in the Northern Cape for the SAPS, while Mpumalanga and North West acquired one property each as a result of this process. An amount of R2,3 million will be spent to purchase 4 064 ha for revenue services in support of the Golela border post development in Mpumalanga.

In the period under review, we disposed of 121 properties in extent of 4 565 ha, with an estimated value of R45 million for purposes of land reform, low-cost housing, municipal infrastructure, government to government transfers and commercial gain.

When divided according to provinces, the disposal process looks as follows: Limpopo saw the disposal of 1 456 pieces of land, while KwaZulu-Natal disposed of 976, 1 073 ha. The rest of the provinces are as follows: the Eastern Cape, 856,6; the Free State, 3,1; Gauteng, 393,3; Mpumalanga, 834,3; the Northern Cape, 637,104 and the Western Cape 39, 6356.

A total leasing amount of just over R1 billion was budgeted in 2003-04, indicating demand and associated costs for accommodation and space. When broken down according to provinces, the following picture emerges: the Department of Public Works budgeted R410 million for Gauteng and R101 million for KwaZulu-Natal. The rest of the provinces were as follows: Mpumalanga with R48 million; Limpopo, R42,4 million; Gauteng, R130 million; the North West, R46,4 million; the Western Cape, R123,5 million; the Eastern Cape, R86 million; the Northern Cape, R26 million, and the Free State, R47 million. The department is concerned about the condition of both government-owned and leased buildings, and is proactively preparing plans to address the issue.

Coming to black economic empowerment: Black economic empowerment as defined and embraced by Government informs all aspects of our business.

The designs for the new generation of prisons have been completed, and the construction of new prisons will proceed in 2005-06 on behalf of the Department of Correctional Services. The four prisons will be built at Kimberley, Nigel, Leeuwkop and Klerksdorp. Each prison will be built at a cost of R220 million over a 22-month construction period. To create opportunities for small, medium and large construction companies, the building work has been divided into 20 separate nominated subcontracts, ranging from R1,4 million to R120 million, which will be the main contract.

In 2003-04 contracts to the total value of R791 million were awarded to emerging contractors under the Emerging Contractor Development scheme, of which R88 million went to women-owned enterprises under the Emerging Contractor Development programme, and I’m proud to say to the House that women are really up and coming in the construction industry. The Western Cape province awarded R35,8 million of its contracts to women, followed by Gauteng, the Free State, KwaZulu-Natal, the Northern Cape, Mpumalanga and Limpopo, but I don’t have the figure for the Eastern Cape. This year we shall be convening a national workshop on best practices in emerging contractor development with the provinces.

Coming to the Expanded Public Works programme: I’ll start with the community-based one. At its height, the community-based public works programme was the flagship of Government’s poverty-alleviation drive through rural infrastructure development. For a decade the department targeted rural poverty brought about a lack of basic, but essential infrastructure, including rural roads.

In that period the community-based public works programme invested over R2,5 billion in six provinces. All-in-all, 4 047 community infrastructure projects were implemented, resulting in the creation of more than 167 000 job opportunities, of which 48% went to women and 30% to the youth.

Amongst us today we have women of note, whom we invited and who even attended the assembly yesterday. They are Mrs N Tshalata and Mrs T Dube. They are with us - I don’t know where they are seated in this particular assembly. What I want to say is that uMama Tshalata is part of the Vukuzakhe community development project of KwaMachi near Harding, who recently led other women in discussions with Government to establish poverty-alleviation projects in their rural community.

Mrs Dube is a farmer par excellence, and was nominated last year for the Female Farmer of the Year Award for her work with other women at one of our projects at the Ndaya Community Production Centre. We have several of these women and they’re doing a sterling job.

At the Growth and Development Summit last year, Government, trade unions, business and civil society agreed on the need for an extended public works programme or EPWP. The objective of the EPWP is to utilise public sector budgets to reduce and alleviate poverty. This programme will target the following groups: those who are educated, but are unemployable; the unemployed; the unskilled; people not receiving grants; rural and urban poor; people with disability, and we find that with the youth about 70% of that group is unemployed and it is high time we did something about it.

We are expecting that there will be a million opportunities created, and we intend to do this through increasing the labour intensity of Government- funded infrastructure projects; creating work opportunities in public environmental programmes, like Working for Water; creating work opportunities in public social programmes, like community care workers; utilising general Government expenditure on goods and services to provide the work experience component of small enterprise learnership or incubation; other possible economic sector initiatives include micro enterprise development.

Over the first five years we conservatively estimate that the programme will, through the infrastructure sector, create about 900 000 jobs; in the environmental and cultural sector create 200 000 jobs; in the social sector create 20 000 jobs; in the economic sector, which has not been calculated to finality, create about 3 000 jobs and the Department of Transport actually falls under this, and the Minister has even better figures me at this particular moment. We have already signed memoranda of agreement with the following: the National Treasury and the construction industry; the Development Bank, to work with provinces and municipalities to improve their capacity to spend on infrastructure and the Department of Labour to fund and manage the training of workers. The Construction Education and Training Authority has already put in place 10 unit standards accredited by the South African Qualifications Authority. These will enable the training of engineers, government officials, contractors and site supervisors.

The Research Centre for Employment Creation in Construction at the University of the Witwatersrand will provide bursaries and research fellowships to infrastructure students and researchers. The aim is to produce cadres of engineers who understand labour-intensive technologies.

Five municipalities and provinces, namely the Western Cape, the Mpumalanga department of public works, the Oliver Tambo district municipality, the Ethekwini metropolitan council and the roads agency of Limpopo are already implementing 288 of the 930 labour-intensive construction enterprises. And I hope that within the next two weeks we’ll begin to get information from the other provinces.

Statistics SA will collect data through the labour force and general household surveys. This programme is mainstreamed, as we’ve said, on the budgets of departments, provinces, municipalities and state-owned enterprises. The large-scale labour-intensive provincial and municipal infrastructure programme involves ring-fencing R15 million of the conditional infrastructure to provinces and municipalities, the rest comes from quite a number of other departments and adds up to a figure of about R100 million.

We have engaged the Business Trust regarding the establishment of a facilitation fund to support capacity building and innovation in the Extended Public Works Programme. The British department for international development will contribute to this fund, and we have had a lot of help from the ILO and our thanks go to the Absa Bank, that has actually agreed to fund some of the contractors.

The Human Sciences Research Council has developed a monitoring and evaluation framework for this programme to collect data, which will assist the department and me to report on our progress regularly in a scientific manner to the nation.

We are currently in advanced talks with the Department of Minerals and Energy and the Department of Housing on their roles in the Extended Public Works Programme, and the role of Housing is fairly extensive.

The department has finalised the appointment of staff for the Extended Public Works unit, which will be the driving force behind the success of the programme. After the successful launch of the programme in Limpopo on 18 May 2004 there is a lot of enthusiasm among stakeholders, and this we witnessed during our roadshows to the provinces and in the meetings we had with the SA Local Government Association. What is interesting is that someone wrote to the department to say that he wanted to be instructed in bricklaying and baking - you can see how contrary those two are, but it is a sign of enthusiasm.

In order to ensure the major contribution of our metros and cities, we have requested the SA Cities Network to commission an investigation into how all nine members of the network can contribute to the programme. We invited one of the contractors from Gundo Lashu - which is the programme that was launched by the President - a woman called Reinet Mhlarhi, who owns Lulama Construction - she is also here somewhere - which is currently employing hundreds of people in the rural areas of Limpopo to build provincial roads using highly labour-intensive construction methods, and who wrote to the President to thank him for the opportunities provided to her through the Limpopo Public Works Programme. I would really like to say to hon members, and especially the MECs, that that programme in Limpopo is worth visiting, and getting to know some of the lessons it brings. It is a very good programme.

The SA Government has set a number of priorities for the construction industry to create an enabling environment for the industry to develop, transform and grow. These priorities include skills development, innovation, increased investment and the transformation of the industry to deliver on the needs of the South African society.

The construction industry’s aging skills profile provides a challenge to transfer knowledge and to ensure that the South African youth participates in the construction industry in the future. Hon members, please help us. Encourage the youth to look into this industry as one of the opportunities for them, because, as I’m saying, the type of people you’ll find as engineers and professors and so on are more or less people of my age, and we need a lot of revitalisation.

For this purpose, we have actually identified a number of initiatives to promote the image of the industry, and to improve the overall performance and growth of the industry. These initiatives include: procurement reform; innovation and absorption of innovation; making South Africa more attractive for fixed investment; accelerated skills development to ensure a quality workforce; ensuring a healthy workforce through improved labour practices; investing in research and technology development; improving the quality of construction products; facilitating mega projects, and these things we intend to do even with partners who are of international note; improving the functionality of public buildings to enhance service delivery.

We have actually identified a number of areas to move the industry into the 21st century. These include: transferring knowledge; maximising potential in the workplace; technological innovation; process improvements; use of information technology, and sustainability of the construction industry, as well as that of the built environment.

We are looking forward to what will come as a result of the fact that we are going to be hosting the 2010 Soccer World Cup, because it will bring a lot of infrastructure work and create the intended jobs.

We have what we call an incubator programme. The purpose of the incubator programme is to create an enabling environment within which selected existing contracting enterprises can develop into sustainable contracting enterprises, to ensure that black-owned medium-sized contractors are developed to become sustainable businesses. We still have the problem of fronting. Fronting really poses a great threat to the realisation of Government’s vision for economic transformation. Thus, the CIDB register of contractors and other related procurement policies are the main tools through which the department intends to combat fronting. The credentials of all suppliers will be checked rigorously before they are registered with the department, and we mean to do just that.

The Department of Public Works will, together with the private sector, jointly launch an intensive public and stakeholder relations campaign over a period of a week in October 2004, aimed at repositioning the industry and emphasising its importance in the growth and development of our country. The construction week will also aim at attracting school leavers and other postgraduate students to careers in the industry.

Plans to convene a construction summit, which is being co-ordinated by Nedlac, are in place. Various stakeholders are already involved in discussions to develop a charter for the sector. This will be followed by a comprehensive implementation and monitoring plan to ensure that efforts yield the desired results.

We are making a contribution to Nepad. Public Works, as part of its contribution, has formed a partnership with the Ministry of Defence and the CSIR, which will develop a strategy that will lead to peacekeeping that encompasses a strong developmental component. The concept of developmental peacekeeping has received the support from the Presidency and the Nepad Secretariat.

Fifty-seven trainees have completed the basic military training component of the Military Skills Development programme. The department has signed agreements with each of the 57 graduates in order to assist them with placement or further education and training in 2005.

The challenges faced by the department and the South African construction sector are not unique to this country. It is for this reason that we will spearhead an initiative to establish a forum of public works departments, initially in the SADC region and in other regions in future. I’ll be convening a conference of African ministers of public works to discuss challenges facing the construction and property industries, job creation and poverty-alleviation projects on the continent. This will be part of our contribution to Nepad, as African ministers of public works.

In conclusion, as we look back over the last 10 years of democracy, we are quite pleased with the progress we have made, both in terms of policy formulation and in terms of implementation. However, as indicated by the President, the next five years are going to be focused on delivery, and we are committed to meeting that.

I would like to thank you all for attending, especially those of you who travelled from far to attend this session. Last, but not least, I would like to thank the team from the Department of Public Works.

This decade represents a new dawn in our historic social pact with the people of this country. The ever-present queues of work seekers and the beggar at every intersection on our way to work remind us every waking minute of what stands at the centre of the people’s contract, which is delivery. It is the delivery of jobs and skills that will move the masses of our people from the second economy, so that they assume their rightful place in the first economy. We then make this clarion call today for all of us to come on board. Let us put the shoulder to the wheel. Let us make it happen. I thank you.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Thank you, Chairperson. Members of the National Council of Provinces and all protocol observed, the central tenets of our policy, in brief, can be based on six pillars, which I now proceed to determine.

Firstly, we are shifting away from quantity to quality housing. In the past, the quest to meet the huge demand in housing drove us unfortunately, to concentrate on numbers. We will now be dealing with the two components, which are not mutually exclusive. While we deliver on quantity, we will also be concentrating on the quality of the product that we deliver.

The second pillar is accelerated delivery. The greatest housing need is in areas of economic activity and we have realised that we are not delivering at the rate at which people are drawn into these centres. Even though we have received world acclaim for the rate of our delivery, when we consider the historical legacy from which we move, it becomes clear that we have to pick up the pace.

A third leg of our strategy deals with corruption and maladministration. We intend to deal with this wherever it rears its ugly head. Many of our people in the past have complained and we, on our part, have responded by setting up a special investigative unit that will help us understand to what extent these complaints are prevalent and whether they are indeed true, and, if they are, we will act on them. Having assessed that, we will then be able to deal decisively with the problem.

Fourthly, we will give support to black economic empowerment companies. The fifth component will involve the development of medium-density housing, including rental stock. Sixthly, and finally, we intend to drive towards the eradication of informal settlements.

Our people have taken recognition of the achievements of Government over the past 10 years through the Reconstruction and Development Programme. Houses that have been delivered are 1,6 million and 2,4 million subsidies have been approved. This rate of delivery has been at the average rate of 160 000 units per annum, which peaked modestly in 1998. The results, therefore, of the first 10 years of democracy relating to housing are tangible. They have vastly improved the living conditions of our people and unblocked the freeze that apartheid placed on housing.

However, due to backlogs, in part, we are still faced with the serious challenge of informal settlements in Duncan Village, Crossroads, Mshenguville, Lamontville, Soweto on Sea and the banks of the Jukskei River in Alexandra; and more recently, in Winnie Mandela Park, Joe Slovo and the N2 corridor in Cape Town.

Our people still find themselves in conditions of squalor, deprivation and marginalisation. Year in and year out they experience flooding and fires which take away their prized possessions. Left on their own, they are unable to escape these conditions that kill their pride and dignity, to which they were previously condemned because of their colour. For them, tomorrow is too late.

Year in and year out we respond to them on an emergency basis, as if to accept that the conditions of squalor found in informal settlements could be regarded as the norm, so that when ravaged, by fires and flooding alike, we declare them disaster areas. Yet, we know that the phenomenon of informal settlements continues to be the challenge that blights the total achievement of our government in delivering a better life for all.

It is in this context that we have declared war on informal settlements. These settlements are characterised by poor quality of life, high unemployment, impermanent shack housing and a lack of convenient access to social and economic opportunities such as health care, education, sport and recreation, and local formal employment.

Living in such settlements, commonly experienced, is the trauma of personal and property crime, often more so than in other parts of the city or country. Policing and access to emergency services in the case of fire, sickness or injury are made even more difficult by the lack of roads. And, because there is often no electricity, people living in informal settlements are restricted in the type of income-generating projects they can pursue. I am very glad to hear that hon Minister Sigcau here has an elaborate plan and I am hoping that it will make tracks into the informal settlements.

Our focus in this new decade of freedom will therefore be to upgrade informal settlements. We will eradicate them on river banks, flood plains, rubbish dumps, dolomitic land and sinkholes. In the overcrowded houses and backyards of Soweto, KwaZakhele and Khayelitsha, we will ensure that people can choose to relocate in order to access land, basic services and decent shelter to rent or to own.

The focus will be on providing housing and basic services on a priority basis to those who currently occupy shacks and have no access to running water, sanitation or electricity. We will be pushing back the frontiers of poverty by reducing the housing backlog.

With increasing urbanisation, those without decent shelter in our urban conurbations have grown. It is for this reason that we believe that our attention must shift to specifically address informal settlements directly. The upgrading of informal settlements will present great challenges, given the complex nature of consultations required with community-based organisations and individual beneficiaries, in ensuring that we take into consideration the various needs, circumstances and desires of our people.

Appropriate solutions will be provided for rural-based families who come to the cities to seek employment, young urban families requiring mobility in order to respond to economic opportunities or those who have left their overcrowded family behind to make a new start, and people with disabilities or other special needs who require access to social facilities.

The President, in his state of the nation address, said we would build on our experiences of the past 10 years to intensify the housing programme. He said that we would develop a comprehensive programme dealing with human settlement and social infrastructure, including rental housing stock for the poor.

He said we would, in the next three years, spend R15,2 billion to help our people to have access to basic shelter. He committed us to addressing the trend in some provinces where there has been a slow-down in housing delivery, as well as addressing the broader question of spatial settlement patterns and the implications of this in our efforts to build a nonracial society. Further, through housing delivery, we will assist in delivering on the water and sanitation targets.

The human settlement and infrastructure programme will comprise three major thrusts: The development of medium-density housing, informal settlement upgrading and the development of social infrastructure in well-located areas.

We will identify, together with the Departments of Land Affairs and Public Works, in our conurbations, suitably located, affordable land for the development of medium-density housing in inner city areas, infill sites in suburban areas, and vacant land that is in close proximity of areas of employment. This will constitute the comprehensive land-for-housing programme which we should complete in the next three months. It will, further, constitute specific resource allocation for social infrastructure in existing and new housing development areas through the human settlement redevelopment programme fund, allocation for which has already been made in the 2004-05 budget. This fund will also be prioritised for the upgrading of informal settlements.

In the urban-based metropolitan areas, a clear need for rental housing has been determined, with rural migrants not wanting to invest their resources to meet their urban housing needs. In addition, young families depend on mobility to secure economic opportunities and therefore remain transient. To respond to this need, we have facilitated the development of rental housing stock through the promulgation of the Rental Housing Act of 1999 - which regulates the roles and responsibilities of landlords and tenants, and establishes a framework for the efficient management of rental housing. Rental housing policy will be concluded this year and the rental housing subsidy will be implemented from the beginning of the next financial year.

The comprehensive programme to be submitted to Cabinet by the end of July will include land acquisition, medium-density development strategy and financial models, inner city regeneration programmes, measures for the enhancement of the secondary housing market, the principles of the rental housing policy and rental housing subsidy, and a revamped social housing programme together with the social housing policy, in order to ensure well- capacitated institutions and to manage rental stock. This programme will prioritise informal settlement areas, sparsely populated suburban areas and inner city areas, in order to change the spatial settlement patterns through integration and the building of a nonracial society.

Resulting from discussions with Cabinet and our housing MECs, we have agreed to devote ourselves to fast-tracking delivery; building the capacity of municipalities to operate more effectively at all levels; upgrading of informal settlements; relocation to new development areas; enhancement of social crime-prevention through all our housing interventions; rooting out corruption and maladministration in the housing programme; promoting urban efficiency and renewal; racial integration through sound spatial planning, and through support for medium-density residential development; increasing rental opportunities for the poor; and, maximising the redistributionary benefits and black economic empowerment through the housing process.

Our interventions focus on promoting good governance and attaining sustainable, integrated human settlements. With respect to good governance, we will focus on an efficient and effective system of government and optimise the potential of all stakeholders to constructively contribute to our goal of housing the nation.

We will establish the necessary policy and regulatory environment, systems and procedures, human and financial resources, and an organisational culture that strives for excellence throughout the institutional machinery collectively responsible for achieving the housing mandate. At municipal level, we will focus our efforts particularly on building capacity for municipal officials, councillors and emerging contractors to ensure efficient delivery of housing.

It is clear, as the housing programme has matured over the last decade, that certain vested interests have begun to operate and to take advantage and abuse the system of benefits that has been put in place. In the more extreme cases, this can be referred to as clearly corrupt practices by officials and individuals from the private sector, or even by community members.

The department will establish, as I have indicated, a special investigative unit in the office of the director-general that will explicitly deal with fraud, corruption and maladministration in all our housing programmes. This directorate will closely liaise with provincial departments and all other stakeholders responsible for fighting corruption to ensure that investigations are carried out effectively. Furthermore, it will finalise the outstanding cases of fraud and corruption with the National Prosecutions Authority.

The department has already appointed KPMG as a second task team to support the work of the directorate in the elimination of fraud, corruption and maladministration in the implementation of national housing programmes, and will immediately establish a toll-free whistle-blowing hotline to be stafled 24 hours a day in order to enable members of the public to report any allegations of fraud and corruption. A report of their findings will be submitted to Parliament by the end of the year.

The contribution that housing projects make to improving urban efficiency will continue to be pursued in partnership with other departments responsible for investing in the built environment. The benefits of urban efficiency, of development on well-located land, at higher-built densities with appropriate typologies of housing, combined with the range of facilities needed to support economic development, and appropriate tenure arrangements, are to be pursued through the medium-density housing programme.

We are revising the current policy to replace it with a policy that will enable the creation of humane conditions, and one that will provide affordable and sustainable housing opportunities on either a rental or home ownership basis. A few pilot redevelopment projects that could inform the revision of the current policy, and which could provide certain examples of best practice, were launched. The department also prepared a set of technical specifications for the upgrading or provision of new services and the redevelopment of hostel buildings. The enhancement of the implementation guidelines, which will direct the redevelopment of the Public Sector Hostels Redevelopment Programme, will be finalised by the end of this financial year.

Effective from 1 April 2002, Government introduced the principle that all qualifying housing subsidy beneficiaries must contribute towards achieving access to the benefits of the housing subsidy. The objective of this was to ensure that subsidy beneficiaries participated in the resolution of their housing needs, that an environment was established to instil a culture of savings, and that the value of the assets provided through the housing subsidy could be realised by the beneficiaries.

The low-income housing sector has the potential to contribute further to the objectives of the Extended Public Works Programme, that has been outlined here by the hon Minister, through infrastructure provision in delivering some of its programmes, such as the Greenfield housing projects and the presidential pilot projects on rental housing, informal settlement upgrading and emergency housing. Although the technology employed in the infrastructure component of housing delivery is already aligned with the Public Works Programme ideals, we are further hoping that we will engage the CSIR in assisting us with further research in this respect. The department will finalise its input for the social and economic sectors by the end of June.

We will be embarking on an imbizo to find out from communities what their needs are, and secondly, what it is that they are willing to contribute in this partnership. Working closely with the Departments of Provincial and Local Government, Transport, Water Affairs and Forestry, Public Works and Land Affairs and Agriculture, we will be ensuring that the money set aside for subsidy purposes is actually used for the top structure, because, as you would know, one of the reasons for the bad quality of houses we spoke about earlier is the fact that most of the subsidy is used for infrastructural development. From what I have discussed, it is clear that what we shall then be delivering to Cabinet at the end of July, is the how and how many in respect of our new strategy. That is our commitment.

Housing allocation is based on a formula, which determines the allocation of budgets to provinces, and it has been brought into line with the new census information, so that the resources that are available are given to areas where there is the greatest need. The value of the housing subsidy is now increased annually to keep pace with inflation. The allocations to the provinces are made as follows for the 2004-05 financial year: To the Eastern Cape we shall award R598,9 million; to the Free State R385,641 million; to Gauteng R1,1 billion; to KwaZulu-Natal R748,463 million and to the Limpopo region we shall give R369,818 million. [Interjections.] You could increase your population, that would increase your output. To Mpumalanga we give R296,457 million and to the Northern Cape R89,442 million - they too could increase their population. To the North West we give R421,378 million and to the Western Cape R 446,035 million. The total estimated budget for the financial year 2004-05 is R4,5 billion.

In addition, the following grants will be made this year to housing institutions: We will give Servcon R37,16 million, the Social Housing Foundation Agency R15,347 million, and to the National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency R3,034 million. The total budget allocation for the Human Settlement Redevelopment Programme for the financial year is R115,5 million.

Finally, in the National Assembly yesterday, we had the honour of the presence of ex-Minister of Housing, Sankie Mthembu-Mahanyele. We invited her over, because we felt that we, as Government, did not give her the proper recognition for all the work that she had done. She kindly accepted the invitation. She graced our Budget Vote yesterday. Unfortunately, she could not make it today. However, through you, I would like to extend, once again, our heartiest gratitude to her. The international community has already awarded her for the work she has done in housing. I would like to think that perhaps at some point we will find the opportunity to honour her for this appropriately. [Applause.] As I indicated yesterday, the late Joe Slovo gave much to housing. He gave us his polices and his esteemed name, and all he got out of it was naming of a few informal settlements after him. Perhaps we can also honour him in some way. [Applause.]

Unfortunately, Minister Bridget Mabandla did not stay long enough even to have an informal settlement named after her. [Laughter.] But, because we have her in our midst, we will continue interacting with her to say thank you on a regular basis for her hard work. To all their hard work, I will add my bit so that we can accelerate the delivery of houses. I thank you. [Applause].

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, hon Minister. Kgoshi Mokoena says that he can assure you that with your authority they will begin, with speed, to increase their population in Limpopo. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Hon Chairperson and delegates, it gives me great pleasure, as Minister of Transport, to present my budget to the NCOP, for it allows all of us to reflect on the impact that transport has and indeed must have on the daily lives of our people across the length and breadth of South Africa. But allow me firstly, to take this opportunity to congratulate the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson on their election as presiding officers of this honourable House.

Transport, contributing between 7% and 30% of the GDP - depending on whether the informal and taxi components are included - is at the centre of our Government’s efforts to achieve growth and development. I cannot overemphasise the fact that a good and efficient transport system is vital to the functioning of the economy as a whole and the wellbeing of South African people.

Transport is to the economy what the veins and arteries are to the human body, namely the conduit of life that determines the health of the system as a whole. Multimode transport systems perform the vital task of moving people and goods efficiently, and there are many challenges that all of us face to ensure that we keep them working. The Department of Transport is allocated a budget of over R6 billion, which will increase progressively over the Medium-Term expenditure framework period. We have set the department some very strategic priorities, which will define our work and activities over the next five years. A critical area of focus is a logistics system, characterised by efficient flow of freight that promotes, rather than undermines, our economy’s competitiveness.

The poor performance of the transport system, as a key-input sector of the South African economy, is imposing huge costs on business activity in our country. It is therefore necessary to restructure the transport system to make sure that the logistics does not act as a restraint on economic growth, employment and sustainable development. The need to remove blockages within our ports and rail is an urgent necessity. However, the focus on freight logistics is not only about removing blockages within our systems. It is also about development of new strategic corridors within the country and the SADC region as whole.

We will adopt an integrated approach to use transport systems as a catalyst to stimulate new development corridors in various regions of our Republic. The development of these strategic corridors should also serve as a guide to where transport infrastructure will be located in future. The development of all these corridors must link up with nodal and spatial development initiatives to prevent areas outside of the corridor being delinked from the rest of the South African economy.

An example of one such initiative is the Kei rail project in the Eastern Cape, the upgrading and developing of new facilities along the Umtata Amabele railway line in the Eastern Cape, linked to a new network of rural access roads and community projects. We envisaged increased economic activity for one of the poorest areas of our society. A second challenge is to establish a public transport system that is effective, efficient, safe, reliable, and co-ordinated in both urban and rural areas.

The allocation of the subsidies for commuter rail and buses is now done in a very transparent manner. I must remind hon members that public transport subsidies are in fact financial interventions by Government to foster equity access to transport, through the affordability of basic services in socioeconomically depressed areas. However, subsidies must be targeted more coherently and effectively than before to make travel more affordable to millions of our commuters in South Africa.

We are obliged, as the Department of Transport, to ease the burden of a costly transport system on our public, therefore I have instructed the Department of Transport to complete a review of the current subsidy system and to align it with our stated objectives as soon as possible.

I believe that this will include the question of subsidisation of taxis, for, as hon members are aware, more than 60% of commuters use minibus taxis, whilst out of an estimated 2 million migrant workers in this country, 850 000 use unsubsidised public transport.

Allow me, therefore, to highlight two interventions that we believe are critical to the delivery of public transport. In the first instance, we have begun work on a merger of Metrorail, Shosholoza Meyl and the SA Rail Commuter Corporation (SARCC). The fragmentation of the institutional framework has made it very difficult for Government to deliver a rail commuter service that meets our objectives of a public transport system. This will not be a simple exercise, and requires the participation of all stakeholders, including organised labour, as we tackle this problem of bringing together commuter and long-distance rail. We trust that a merged entity will ensure a more streamlined commuter rail service as well as focus investment in the rolling stock. At the same time, this should allow Spoornet to focus its capacity on the critical challenge of increasing volumes by 30% in the next period.

One area where there is closer collaboration between the national Government and the provinces is in respect of subsidies. The department, through all provincial departments of transport, awards contracts by tender to bus operators for the provision of public transport services. Currently, there are 34 interim, 2 negotiated and 58 tendered contracts involving approximately 7 500 buses. On average, passengers receive about R198 in subsidies per month, which equals 6,7% of the average household income. Our Government will be spending more than R2,1 billion on bus subsidies this current financial year.

The tender processes should aim to achieve our objectives of a safe and effective public transport system, whilst meeting other transformation objectives. We have agreed with the provinces that a minimum of 30% of all contracted services should be set aside for companies with a 50% HDI (historically disadvantaged individual) equity, whilst the remaining 70% should have an ownership equity of 35%. We believe that this is key to facilitating the entry of black players in the bus industry in South Africa.

Another critical area that needs our urgent attention is the emphasis on the construction and maintenance of roads in rural areas, including access roads. The lack of infrastructure, and reliable public transport in rural areas in particular, continues to deny socioeconomic opportunities, sustainable livelihood, education and recreation to millions of our people who cannot realise their full potential. The delivery of quality transport infrastructure in the rural areas of our country is a prerequisite for the eradication of asset and income poverty amongst our people.

Our socioeconomic situation demands labour-intensive methods in the delivery of social and economic infrastructure, as my colleague Minister Sigcau highlighted. Already some progress has been made to use labour- intensive construction methods in the delivery of roads infrastructure. For example, the SA National Roads Agency has begun to redirect increasing amounts of its expenditure, approximately 30% at present, towards road construction and maintenance through labour-based methods.

We are also encouraging provinces to ensure a similar reorientation. I’m encouraged by initiatives undertaken by provinces aimed at ensuring that infrastructure delivery meets the requirements of the Public Works Programme as co-ordinated by the national Department of Public Works. Some of the programmes being implemented in the provinces include Zibambele in KwaZulu-Natal, Gundo Lashu in Limpopo, Vukuzakhe in the Eastern Cape, Zenzele in the Western Cape, Gauteng’s Labmax and Mpumalanga’s Community- Based Public Works Programme.

Labour-intensive technologies are fundamental to our efforts at employment creation, skills development and creating critical assets for communities and the whole economy. But more needs to be done, and not only in terms of access roads and small projects. It is important that we execute a significant shift towards labour-intensive technologies within the overall public spending on infrastructure.

Such is the poor state of maintenance of many of our roads that I must indicate to this honourable House that, together with the provinces and the roads agency, we will consider reclassifying certain strategic roads from provincial to national, if this is the only way to ensure the allocation of sufficient funds for upgrading and maintenance work.

Finally, I wish to state to this House that we shall move with speed towards the completion of the process of establishing the Road Traffic Management Corporation (RTMC). I have instructed both the Department of Transport and the chief executive of the RTMC that I’m keen to launch this statutory body as soon as possible. The road traffic management corporation is a partnership between the three spheres of government to strengthen our Government’s collective capacity for road traffic management. The establishment of this RTMC, based as it is on the principle of co-operative governance, will give concrete meaning to co-operation and mobilise powers and resources across the three spheres of government to bring end to the lawlessness on our roads. There can be no dilly-dallying in this regard. Thank you, Chair and members. [Applause.]

IPHINI LIKASIHLALO WOMKHANDLU KAZWELONKE WEZIFUNDAZWE (Mnu M J Mahlangu: Siyabonga kuNgqongqoshe wezokuThutha, umhlonishwa uRadebe. Uzwile-ke mhlonishwa ngesikhathi ukhuluma lapha ukuthi bekukhona abantu abahlekayo - angazi noma ubezwile yini? Sengithanda ukwazi ukuthi kanti laba bantu yini le engaka abakade beyihleka. Umhlonishwa uthe kukhona indawo eMpuma-Koloni ebizwa ngokuthi amaBele. Ngesilungu, igama elithi “amabele” lisho ukuthi “breasts”. [Uhleko.] Leyo ndawo-ke ayibizwa ngamabele kodwa kuthiwa amaBhele. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Thank you, Minister of Transport, hon Radebe. You heard, hon Minister, when you were talking here, that there were people who were laughing. I do not know if you heard them. I would like to know what these people were laughing at. The hon Minister said there was a place called amabele'' in the Eastern Cape. The word is the equivalent of the wordbreasts’’ in English. [Laughter.] The name of that place is not amabele'' butamaBhele’’. [Laughter.]]

Order! Thank you, hon Minister. I now call the next speaker, who is the acting chairperson of the Select Committee on Public Service, Mr R J Tau. I am told that this is his maiden speech. I hope it won’t be controversial.

Mr R J TAU: Let’s see when I have finished, Chair. Hon Chair, Ministers, MECs, special delegates - protocol observed - our engagement in these Budget Votes is located within an understanding of a signed contract with our people on 14 April 2004 - a contract in which our people resolved to take an active role in the transformation and development of their socioeconomic conditions. It says that together with our people and with the limited resources at our disposal that change can happen.

We note that population growth, of course at uneven levels in all our provinces, puts as a result, therefore, an unequal pressure on provinces in terms of housing delivery. At the same time, we further observe a slowdown in housing provision, as also observed by the President in his state of the nation address.

In elaborating on the aspects of the contract with our people in his state of the nation address, the President called on the Department of Housing to develop a comprehensive programme to deal with human resettlement and social infrastructure, including rental housing stock for the poor, to be presented to Cabinet within three months. The President committed Government to addressing the broader question of spatial settlement patterns, and the implications of this in Government’s efforts to build a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society, by pledging to fast-track a programme to help our people gain access to basic shelter.

The department incorporated these priorities as its policies into its strategic plan for the 2004-05 financial year. As we accept the fundamental objective of the department as that of ensuring that every South African has access to a permanent residential structure within a sustainable human settlement, which guarantees security of tenure, privacy and protection against negative elements, we therefore resolve that housing the poor and the rural masses is the department’s core function and that it is left to us is to ensure that our people live to realise these objectives. We have also noted with interest the manner in which the department seeks to address the backlogs, identified by the President, in some provinces, whilst at the same time appreciating the role the department has played and continues to play in restoring the dignity of our people through the provision of housing. That also goes for the acknowledgement of the challenges faced by the department in trying to address all these issues without being told to do so. A housing summit held in 2003 identified key policy gaps and further worked out research and policy needs which, in essence, is its agenda which will be finalised this year, thus adding impetus to the housing programme. In the same breath we further agree with the need to improve the quality of housing. We further seek to standardise the capacity of houses - that is, the number of square metres throughout all provinces, albeit noting the scarcity or the unavailability of land in provinces such as the Western Cape. We therefore encourage a close working relationship with the Department of Land Affairs in an attempt to resolve the challenge of land availability for the poor.

We need to improve and increase the rental housing stock and to ensure that most housing finance by private institutions is encouraged in terms of the Financial Services Charter. We welcome the commitment by the department to improving the capacity of provinces and local government to implement the Government’s housing policy and strategy. In its endeavour to improve the lives of our people, it is the committee’s view that the department must work towards removing the blockages by ensuring that farmworkers are also built better houses in order to improve their lives and the conditions in which they live. While noting the challenges that go with the transformation of hostels into family units, we appreciate the progress made thus far and commit ourselves to working with the department in ensuring that this reaches its finality.

We note the fundamental objective of the Department of Transport, namely to establish a national transport system that enables the national, provincial and local provision of efficient, affordable and fully integrated infrastructure and services that best meet the transport needs of our people and workers and that promote economic and social development, while being environmentally and economically sustainable. We appreciate the efforts by the department to streamline all components, particularly in rail transport, for there to be better co-ordination and monitoring of our transport system. We also applaud the department in its intention to use targeted subsidies and a high-quality comprehensive transport infrastructure network to upgrade key public facilities that, in the main, are used by the poor and workers. By so doing, the department expresses a commitment to the promotion of infrastructure investment that, amongst other things, includes a drive towards extending job-creation initiatives by supporting investment in intensive labour projects.

The committee made the following observations as a result of the presentations: firstly, the Medium-Term Expenditure Estimate for transport infrastructure is R1,4 billion, which represents an increase of 12,7% from the previous year. In terms of all the programmes, as the details were presented to us, it is our view that while there has been an overall increase in these programmes - we have seen a sharp increase in rail and bus services, that is 3,6% and 7,1% respectively between the period 2003-04

• in 2004-05 taxi operations and public transport operations experienced a decrease of 55,2% and 23,8% respectively for the same period. It is our view therefore that more money must be spent on transport safety in order to make a shift towards assisting the public, workers and the rural poor in terms of transport safety in all provinces.

It is also our view that as the department will be embarking on a process to finalise its municipal transport plans and the provincial transport frameworks, municipalities and provinces must be consulted because, in so doing, capacity will also be built at that particular level. That also goes for the strengthening of the Road Traffic Management Corporation. I say thank you very much to the Minister for committing himself to ensuring that the corporation becomes a success. However, we also encourage MECs to play an active strategic role in this process. We also wish to commend the department for having uncovered corruption in the Road Accident Fund and for putting systems in place to deal with it. In that regard, we believe the department to revisit the Satchwell commission report and identify areas that can be used as lessons for the better functioning of the fund. While noting the efforts made and the challenges faced by the department in the taxi recapitalisation process, it is our view that the department should treat this matter with caution.

In its efforts to ensure that there is a considered attack on poverty and unemployment, Government initiated the Expanded Public Works Programme. In so doing, the department aims to draw in large numbers of the unskilled, unemployed and rural poor that have been designated to the periphery of our economy. Key to its programme objectives is the creation of jobs, poverty alleviation, investment in social and economic infrastructure and human resource development through the training of participants in the programme.

As a lead department in the Expanded Public Works Programme, the Department of Public Works will strive to drive this programme and be responsible for co-ordination and integration across all organs of state. It is our view that the department must take concrete steps to ensure that the concept of expanded national programmes is fully understood within and beyond Government. The department also aims to optimise cost-effective, quality, labour-based methods of construction by providing support for emerging contractors and by implementing responsive and uniform procurement policies and mechanisms to track developments and focus on objectives and targets.

During the previous financial year we have seen 80 000 jobs being created, which represents an amount of 51%, with 70 contracts being awarded to previously disadvantaged contractors and to women in particular. We believe there is a need to put more effort into and to focus on these attempts to address the inequalities that exist within our economy.

We observe that we engage in these Budget Votes during Youth Month and, as a result, we need to take into account that this particular sector is hard hit by poverty and unemployment. About 70% of the people who find themselves in poverty are young people below the age of 35. This challenge is deepened by the fact that the economically active population is growing owing to school-leaver levels. This poses serious challenges to the budgets, as debated today, of all three departments. We therefore call on all departments, under the leadership, of course, of Public Works, to put in place systems that will ensure that young people are absorbed through their labour-intensive programmes.

As the President announced, the Co-operatives Bill will be presented to Cabinet, if not to Parliament, in September. It is important that departments must work out mechanisms to prepare young people to be ready by then. This can happen through their training budgets by introducing the concept of co-operatives and, in so doing, we simply imply as a committee that it is not necessary to wait for September.

We also call on all three departments to ensure that they develop youth policies to guide all the programmes of the departments on youth employment strategies, training and mentoring. We applaud departments for their efforts in ensuring that they buy into the programme of absorbing young people through their learnership programmes. Central to addressing this challenge is the unemployment of young rural women. Through the building of rural roads and houses and the development of rural infrastructure - that is the construction of clinics, schools, bridges, etc - young rural women should be empowered through knowledge and skills development.

We observe with great pride the fact that all departments have put in place systems to combat corruption, working closely with the law-enforcement institutions of this country. All the Votes that we are engaging in today have set up internal systems to fight corruption. The screening of tenders, and their approach and commitment to the notion of broad-based black economic empowerment signal that the time for fronting and internal tender syndicates is over. It is therefore our responsibility as Parliament to assist the departments by working closely with them. We hope we will also enjoy the same co-operation through speedy responses to the cases reported by members when they do their constituency work.

All departments have declared their commitment to the 2010 World Cup and Nepad. Development of the national, regional and continental transport network system and the improvement of our roads infrastructure - the jam on the N2 brought to our attention the possibility that most of the players might be late for their games - the construction of quality houses, not only rental stock but also for visitors and the creation of jobs in order to bring about socioeconomic stability, are just examples of the commitments by the departments.

Thus, on behalf of the committee, we want to move that we adopt the budgets as presented to the Council. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, acting chairperson. I now call the chairperson of the standing committee on local government and housing for the Northern Cape, the hon Mr C A T Smith.

Mnr C A T SMITH (Noord-Kaap): Agb Voorsitter, baie dankie vir die geleentheid. Agb minister Sisulu, agb minister Sigcau, agb minister Radebe, die spesiale afgevaardigdes na hierdie Huis, lede van die Huis, dit is die eerste keer dat ek die geleentheid het om in hierdie Huis te kan praat. Laat my dus toe om u almal hier teenwoordig vandag hartlik geluk te wens met u verkiesing tot u betrokke portefeuljes. Ek bid dat die God wat ons almal dien u met die nodige wysheid sal seën sodat ons tot diens van die mense van hierdie land kan wees.

Agb minister Sisulu, die Noord-Kaap is baie trots op wat ons in die afgelope vyf jaar kon doen ten opsigte van behuising. Ek herinner my aan die tannie van Mier wat 60 jaar oud was en vir die eerste keer ‘n huis kon besit en gesê het hoe dankbaar sy is dat sy vir die eerste keer in haar lewe so ‘n eiendom kan hê. Die Noord-Kaap is egter ook ‘n unieke provinsie met unieke probleme. So is ons onder meer die grootste provinsie wat gebied betref, met die kleinste getalle. ‘n Verdere probleem vir ons is die fiskale beginsel dat toekennings bereken word per capita. Dit veroorsaak dat ons die kleinste gedeelte van die Begroting daar kry.

Wat egter ‘n verdere probleem is, is die afstande tussen punte waar diens gelewer moet word. As ‘n mens byvoorbeeld ‘n huis in Kuboes langs die Oranjerivier naby aan die grens van Namibië bou, is dit 1 100 km van Kimberley af. Die grootte van ‘n subsidie in Kaapstad, Johannesburg en Kimberley sal nie meer dieselfde wees as die subsidie in Kuboes nie, as gevolg van vervoer en al die ander aspekte wat daarmee gepaard gaan. Ons wil u dus vra om asseblief daaraan aandag te skenk sodat ons gehelp kan word met hierdie probleem.

‘n Verdere probleem wat ons het, is ook die finalisering van die sensusgetalle. Hierdie sensusgetalle bepaal dat daar nou minder mense in die Noord-Kaap is. Ons wil die korrektheid en juistheid van daardie getalle betwyfel. Ons wil graag die advies wat u ons gegee het met betrekking tot hoe ons die getalle in die provinsie meer kan maak, aanneem, maar ons is bang ons kom in die moeilikheid by die Minister van Gesondheid! Ten opsigte van hierdie getalle wil ons ook graag vandag ‘n pleidooi lewer in hierdie agbare Huis dat u ook daaraan sal aandag skenk om ook tog vir ons van hulp te wees.

Ons het ‘n probleem van ongeletterdheid. In die omgewing van Sutherland en Fraserburg kry ons nog plaaswerkers wat by konserwatiewe wit boere op plase werk waar die dopstelsel en verpligte kinderarbeid nog algemene praktyk is en waar mense nog agter op die bakkie moet sit wanneer die kwik op -11ºC staan, terwyl die hond voor langs die baas sit, want ons mense en kinders mag nie op die miesies se plek sit nie. Dis die soort omstandighede wat ons nog daar aantref. Nou wil ons vra dat u dit tog in ag sal neem wanneer u ook die toekenning aan die Noord-Kaap bereken.

Ons het verskillende redes waarom daar ook ‘n agterstand ontstaan het wat die lewering van huise betref. Hierdie agterstande het ontstaan as gevolg van die swak dienslewering van swak diensleweraars wat ons in hierdie Huis wil pleit nooit weer gebruik moet word nie, en wie se name op ‘n swartlys geplaas moet word sodat hulle nie verder mense kan uitbuit nie. Ons wil dus ook by die Minister smeek dat aandag ook daaraan gegee sal word sodat ons hierdie agterstande wat ontwikkel het, sal kan uitwis.

Ons ag behuising ‘n baie belangrike aspek van die volkskontrak wat ons met die mense gesluit het. Behuising moet werkgeleenthede vir ons mense skep. Nooit weer moet daar net gebruik gemaak word van die groot maatskappye nie. Die Noord-Kaap het ‘n sensitiewe ekonomie waarin, so word ons geadviseer, die klein- en mediumskaalmaatskappye die oplossing sal wees wat werkskepping betref. Ons wil pleit dat dit só gereël sal word dat die gewone man en vrou ook sal kan kwalifiseer om werk te kan kry by die projekte waarin huise tot stand gebring word.

Apartheid het ons mense se huise en grond gesteel, en ons as nuwe Regering het nou die taak om dit vir hulle terug te gee. Vergeet die verskriklike finansiële tekorte; verstaan ons die dilemmas wat daar bestaan? Ons wil hier sê die ANC-regering van die Noord-Kaap is toegewyd om die huise vir ons mense terug te gee en te bou. Ons wil ons Minister vra om ons te help om dit te doen.

Ons wil vandag in hierdie Huis ook aan haar agting en erkenning gee vir die feit en die beginsel wat sy bring ten opsigte van kwaliteit versus kwantiteit. Ja, daar was so ‘n fase waartydens dit nodig was om kwantiteit te handhaaf, maar nou is dit belangrik dat ons ‘n huis … [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C A T SMITH (Northern Cape): Hon Chairperson, thank you very much for this opportunity. Hon Minister Sisulu, hon Minister Sigcau, hon Minister Radebe, the special delegates to this House, members of the House, this is the first time that I have the opportunity to speak in this House. Allow me therefore sincerely to congratulate all of you present here today sincerely on your election to your relevant portfolios. I pray that the Lord whom we all serve will bless you with the necessary wisdom so that we could be of service to the people of this country.

Hon Minister Sisulu, the Northern Cape is very proud of what we were able to do with regard to housing during the past five years. I remember the 60- year-old woman from Mier who was able to own a house for the first time and who had said how grateful she was that for the first time in her life she could have such a property. However, the Northern Cape is also a unique province with unique problems. We are, for example, amongst other things the largest province as far as area is concerned, with the smallest numbers. A further problem for us is the fiscal principle that allocations are calculated per capita. This results in our getting the smallest part of the Budget there. A further problem, however, is the distances between points where services must be delivered. For example, if one builds a house in Kuboes on the Orange River near the border of Namibia, it is 1 100 km from Kimberley. The size of a subsidy in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Kimberley will no longer be the same as the subsidy in Kuboes because of transport and all the other aspects associated with it. We therefore want to ask you please to address this so that we could receive assistance with this problem.

Another problem we have is the finalising of the census figures. These census figures indicate that there are now fewer people in the Northern Cape. We want to query the correctness of those figures. We would like to accept the advice you gave us with regard to how we can increase the figures in the province, but we are scared of getting into trouble with the Minister of Health! With regard to these numbers, we would also like to appeal in this honourable House today that you will also pay attention to this to provide us with some assistance as well.

We have a problem of illiteracy. In the neighbourhood of Sutherland and Fraserburg we still get farmworkers who work on farms of conservative white farmers, where the ``dop’’ system and compulsory child labour are still the general practice, and where people still have to sit in the back of trucks when it is -11°C, while the dog sits in front, next to the boss, because our people are not allowed to sit on the madam’s seat. This is the sort of circumstances we still find there. We want to ask you to take this into consideration whenever you calculate the allocation for the Northern Cape.

We have various reasons as to why a backlog also developed as regards the delivery of houses. These backlogs developed as a result of the poor service delivery of poor service deliverers, and we want to appeal in this House that they should never be used again, and that their names should be put on a blacklist so that they would not be able to exploit people any more. We therefore also want to appeal urgently to the Minister for attention to be given to this problem so that we can eliminate these backlogs that have arisen.

We regard housing as a very important aspect of the people’s contract we have entered into with the people. Housing should create job opportunities for our people. Never again should only large companies be used. The Northen Cape has a sensitive economy in which, according to what we are told, the small and medium-scale companies will be the solution as far as job creation is concerned. We want to request that it will be arranged in such a way that the ordinary man and woman will also be qualified to get work at the projects relating to houses being built.

Apartheid stole the houses and land of our people, and it is our task, as new Government, to return these to them. Forget about the enormous financial shortfalls; do we understand the existing dilemmas? We want to say here that the ANC government of the Northern Cape is dedicated to giving the houses back to our people and to build them. We want to ask our Minister to help us do this.

Today, in this House, we also want to pay our respects and acknowledge the fact, and the principle she brings, regarding quality versus quantity. Yes, there was a phase during which it was necessary to sustain quantity, but now it is important to us that a house … [Time expired.]]

Mr S A MKHIZE (Gauteng): Madam Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon MECs, member delegates and comrades, I believe that I represent the smart province - Gauteng.

The Department of Housing has noted the challenges and the work to be done in fulfilling the promises made during the elections. The challenges and the programme, outlined by the President in his state of the nation address and by the Premier in his state of the province address, will continue to form part of our work as we strive to deliver houses to the poor in our province.

The high number of people converging in our province in search of a better life and in search of employment opportunities will continue to be a challenge, and our plans are therefore geared towards meeting such challenges. One of the critical, most urgent challenges, is to accelerate the programme of ensuring that the homeless and those who live in squalor have decent houses built on well-located land and have access to basic services such as water, sanitation and electricity.

As part of dealing with poverty and unemployment and building safe and sustainable communities, the department has identified areas where housing development will take place as part of Government’s contribution to the people’s contract to create work and fight poverty.

New housing projects, as well as the upgrading and formalisation of informal settlements will be implemented through the incremental approach. We will enrol all our essential services projects with the Expanded Public Works Programme - a nationwide programme aimed at drawing a significant number of unemployed into productive work. Here we will be specifically targeting youth out of school and out of work, thereby contributing to the process of empowering and capacitating people who are unemployed.

Through the essential services programme we will formalise and upgrade more than 51 000 stands, currently in informal settlements, during the current financial year. Two hundred thousand more stands will be formalised over the next five years. Only those informal settlements earmarked for future upgrading will be formalised. We will also be working closely with the municipalities and other role-players to prevent further proliferation of informal settlements.

Linked to essential services will also be two other programmes. Firstly, the People’s Housing Project (PHP) will be further enhanced to maximise its intended outcome. This will depend on the participation of our people themselves in housing and will also create strong community structures to continue mobilising community resources and energies well beyond the delivery of housing. For this reason, through the PHP, we will establish 20 housing support centres per year, starting this current financial year. This will be established in areas such as Kanana, Thulare, Diepsloot and Ivory Park, to mention just a few.

The other programme following from essential services is the community building programme. This is a new programme. It aims to blend institutional capacity of the private sector with community resources. Through this programme we will deliver

10 000 housing units per annum and create 50 000 short-term jobs per year in the context of the Expanded Public Works Programme.

The Premier of Gauteng, Mbhazima Shilowa, has identified the formalisation of all informal settlements in Gauteng, thereby contributing towards a comprehensive, consolidated and integrated infrastructure programme as an absolute priority. In this regard we have already engaged the services of the regional professional teams, the RPT, and have set up a Programme Management Office, PMO, to speed up the roll-out and delivery of service stands in many informal settlements. In this regard, we shall not disappoint. We have already turned various informal settlements into construction sites.

The following projects are already under way: Tswane - 13 129 stands, Metsweding - 840 stands, the Western District - 1 776 stands, Johannesburg North - 7 486 stands, Johannesburg South - 21 428 stands, Ekurhuleni - 8 638 and Sedibeng - 320 stands. In order to ensure long-term sustainability of these interventions, we are also putting in place mechanisms to involve people from the beginning of the planning process right up to the implementation stage. We want our people to take ownership of this development, but also to be our partners in the people’s contract. To this extent, one of the RDP’s performance measures will be the extent to which people have been involved from the planning stage.

Looking at the time given, I think it would not be proper to dwell only on the priorities, but also to look at other issues. We strongly feel that these are the key policy constraints in relation to the key deliverables!

The national policy requires that beneficiaries must contribute R2 479 in order to get access to the subsidy and to a house, except if they are involved in the People’s Housing Process. The experience in Gauteng has shown that beneficiaries are unable to make the R2 479 contribution, which has caused major delays in projects.

National policy requires that the property must be transferred to the name of the beneficiary prior to the beneficiary taking occupation. The risks associated with leaving the house vacant while the transfer is taking place are too high. Therefore, the recommendation is that national policy should allow beneficiaries to take occupation … [Time expired.] [Applause.] Amandla!

Mr K PANDAY (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, with the limited time at my disposal, I will be speaking on Budget Vote 29 - Housing. Firstly, I wish to thank the hon Minister for her presentation budget this morning. Despite the effort of the Department of Housing, it will be very hard to accept that the requirements, regulations, guidelines and standards set by the legislation have been followed. Hence, many service providers throughout the country have failed us, but above all failed our people. It has become apparent that there is reluctance in the private sector to invest substantially in our efforts, and the capacity of local government entities to provide solid integrated development is lacking.

The delivered houses, in most cases, are of bad quality, as has become evident in the plethora of reports in the national and regional press. Houses are falling down after mild rain, the structures are of inferior quality. The infrastructure that was supposed to be part of the integrated development is lacking. For how long are our people going to suffer these indignities? The state’s noble intentions of sheltering the poorest of the poor are defeated by these proven realities. It has become apparent in the process of service and delivery that there is a lack of capacity within the ambit of the national, provincial and local government sectors, which creates a serious impediment to a smooth and successful integrated development framework, as described in the laws associated with the much talked about Integrated Development Programmes (IDPs). This is a problem that needs to be researched and tackled head on.

Research emanating from the University of KwaZulu-Natal has indicated that there is a serious level of dissatisfaction amongst our people with regard to the process of service and delivery of houses in relation to integrated development. Thus, capacity-building programmes, at all levels, need to continue. This can be rectified, especially through the development and growth of the creation of a solid group of housing entrepreneurs within the African communities who will not only boost their economic viability, but also give new meaning to the concept of ubuntu.

There have been a series of reports regarding rampant maladministration and corruption in the housing departments throughout the country that are serious barriers to accelerated service delivery. We cannot allow a small number of unscrupulous thieves and fraudsters to stop our gallant efforts towards creating a more humane society. The growth in MTEF allocation for the periods 2004-05, 2005-06 and 2006-07, with increases in the budget of 34%, 15% and 11% respectively, is a good sign. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Ministers Radebe, Sisulu and Sigcau, it is an honour and a privilege for me to be able to represent the people of the North West province in this House. In my work here, I intend to be motivated by the best interests of those at whose pleasure I serve.

The centrepiece of the ANC’s election campaign was a promise of one million jobs to be achieved through the Expanded Public Works Programme. This promise was not made with absolute honesty, however, because the Expanded Public Works Programme will not deliver the kind of sustainable employment that genuine economic growth will achieve, and that the multitude of unemployed so desperately need. The programme will provide job opportunities for less than 3% of the unemployed per year, and the work will last for an average of just six months, after which most of the beneficiaries will revert to a state of unemployment. We must be honest and responsible enough not to pretend that the Expanded Public Works Programme (EPWP) can permanently roll back unemployment or eradicate poverty. Only sustainable economic growth at 5% or 6% per annum can do that.

It is enormously revealing that the EPWP makes provision for special conditions of employment at wages lower than the minimum wage and with reduced obligations for employers. This is an open admission by the Government that the onerous labour laws to which the private sector is subject are a major cause of our intractable unemployment problem.

A two-tier labour market, such as the Government is introducing in the public sector, is one simple means of creating a ladder between the two economies to which the President referred recently. It is an approach that should be extended to the private sector in high unemployment areas and labour intensive industries across the country.

Finally, I want to build on a point made by the Ministers of Defence and Sport recently. The EPWP is an opportunity to treat South Africans as South Africans, and not as representatives of racial groups. I call on the Minister to ensure, therefore, that the EPWP will be open to all South Africans in need of work and skills, and will not be reserved only for those from particular racial groups. [Interjections.]

Having said all that, a public works programme does have a place in our overall policy programme as a means of temporary poverty alleviation, and even more crucially, as a means to transfer the kinds of skills that will make the beneficiaries employable on a permanent basis.

I hope this will be the focus of the programme and we in the DA will fulfil our oversight duty in an effort to ensure that it is. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Before I proceed to call the next speaker, I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the presence of the delegation from the Joint Parliamentary Commission on Human Rights of the British Parliament, led by the Rt Hon Ms Jean Causton. They are up there. You are welcome to our second House of Parliament. [Applause.]

Mr F ADAMS: Hon Deputy Chairperson, Chair of Chairs, hon Ministers, hon MECs, special delegates and members of the House, I just want to find out if it was the member’s maiden speech this morning, which I think it was. There is a convention in Parliament that if it is your maiden speech, you don’t attack. But if people do not have respect, or if people do not want to work with the Government, they just do whatever they like. [Interjections.]

The NNP shares the Department of Transport’s vision to have a transport system that builds a better life for all and its mission to promote affordable transport access and mobility that is safe, reliable and internationally competitive. As we know, although the Government has done a lot and is still doing a lot to change the transport system that has developed through the disparities arising from the previous patterns of spatial development, our people must still travel long distances to get to work or school at high cost. The Minister, the department and all role- players must keep on finding ways and means to improve and expand our infrastructure, to reduce the cost of public transport, and to make public transport safe for our people.

Behuising lê vir almal ná aan die hart. Die NNP steun Minister Sisulu en die departement se verklaring: “Oorlog verklaar teen plakkersbuurte’’. ‘n Huis is die plek waar ‘n mens basiese waardes aanleer. Dit is waar jy respek vir ander se besittings, eiendom en vir jou gemeenskap leer. As mense gehelp word om huiseienaars te word, versterk ons dié waardestelsel. Daarom moet ons saamstaan om die doelwitte te bereik om ordentlike behuising te bied vir die miljoene mense wat dit verdien. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Housing is close to all our hearts. The NNP supports Minister Sisulu and the department’s statement: “Declare war against squatter areas”. A home is the place where one learns basic values. That is where one learns respect for the possessions of others, their property and for one’s community. If people are helped to become home owners, we strengthen this value system. Therefore we must stand together to achieve the goals of providing decent housing for the millions of people who deserve it.]

The Department of Public Works and all role-players must take concrete steps to ensure that the concept of the Expanded Public Works Programme is fully understood and supported within and outside Government, because South Africa is a country where various cultures merge to form a unique nation that is proud of its heritage. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Thank you, hon Chair. Hon Chair, let me join the Ministers in congratulating the Chairperson, the Deputy Chairperson and all the office bearers in the House. I don’t know whether this is my maiden speech, but hon Chairperson, the Minister has spoken about housing.

I have a prepared speech. I will just look at highlights, because if I read the speech it would be a repetition of what the Minister has said. The two speeches have so much in common, which is a positive sign.

Chairperson, whilst we have achieved major successes in our quest for efficiency in executing our housing development programme, especially in relation to the involvement of previously disadvantaged construction companies, including women and the youth, there are still enormous challenges ahead of us. We have a strategy of housing development, we have achieved results and we have learnt some lessons, especially in helping us unlock various administrative blockages which delayed housing development on the ground. Key to the strategy is the role played by our emerging contractors, the streamlining of the payment regime, partnership with the commercial banking sector and training institutions, tightening of our quality control systems and internal reorganisation.

We are in the process of establishing an emerging contractors empowerment council in the province, and we think that through it we will earnestly begin the process of transferring power to the historically disadvantaged people.

The Growth and Development Plan of the province highlights job creation and poverty alleviation as key provincial priorities. For housing development, the department will ensure that the frontiers of poverty and joblessness are pushed back further and further.

As poverty is mostly concentrated in the eastern part of the province, at the Alfred Nzo and O R Tambo District Municipality areas, as well as in informal settlements that are often affected by flood disasters within Nelson Mandela Bay and Buffalo City, the bulk of the housing fund allocation this financial year will be directed to these areas in order to address this problem. Housing for emergency circumstances will progressively support communities affected by or prone to these flood disasters in the province.

The following strategic objectives will drive the current financial year: Systematic elimination of the housing backlog in the province; monitoring and evaluation of the delivery of quality housing; facilitation of housing development and management capacity among municipalities; co-ordination of housing assets management; job creation and skills development; and strengthening the provincial economy.

The department will systematically facilitate access to well-located public and private land for housing needs. The compilation of data of available land is considered to be of paramount importance in this regard. Municipalities will be assisted towards proactive acquisition of land for housing purposes. An amount of R598,9 million has been made available for housing this financial year, and the department intends building 23 149 housing units this year.

Eradication of the bucket system will continue to receive primary focus, with the implementation of various projects throughout the province. This is one of the programmes aimed at restoring people’s dignity and ensuring that the poorest of the poor enjoy access to appropriate housing with waterborne sewerage. In this regard we have budgeted R38, 212 million. The current backlog has been calculated at 64 768 throughout the province. The areas of focus will be Umzimvubu, Elundini, Koukamma, Kouga, Lukhanji, Mhlontlo, Mnquma, Ntabankulu, Nxuba, Nyandeni, Senqu, Tsolwana and Umzimkhulu. The following municipalities were allocated funding during the last financial year and the programme continues: Qawukeni Municipality, Sakhisizwe, Sundays River Valley, Makana and Inxuba Yethemba.

The main focus for the current financial year, amongst other things - I’m skipping certain portions, Chairperson - is building institutional capacity of municipalities to manage and implement housing development projects. The department will embark on housing consumer or beneficiary education to ensure that communities are equipped with information on housing.

The department has developed a capability model for municipalities, which will provide for the ultimate accreditation of municipalities. Implementation of this model will be done in phases, starting with the metro, Buffalo City and the 6 district municipalities over the next two years.

The disestablishment of the housing development board led to the immovable properties being vested in the department. In this regard, the department will undertake a proper audit of these properties with a view to developing an authentic property register.

With regard to job creation, we have targeted a minimum of 25% of the current capital budget allocation for utilisation by women, youth and other groups that are designated.

The establishment of the Emerging Contractor Empowerment Council this year to facilitate empowerment of emerging contractors in the technical, business and financial fields is pertinent. This is being done in collaboration with partners such as the Emerging Contractors Associations, Women in Construction, Youth in Construction, the Construction Education and Training Authority, the National Home Builders’ Registration Council, the Construction Industry Development Board, financial institutions and municipalities. This is a partnership we should put together to strengthen the emerging contractor industry.

With regard to contributions to the strengthening of the economy, we will build partnerships with the DBSA, Rapid Infrastructure Development Agency of the Koega Development Corporation and the Construction Industry Development Board.

Chairperson, we will step up the implementation of the Urban Renewal Programme in Ngangelizwe, Mdantsane and in Motherwell, Port Elizabeth. In this regard, we have also found it imperative as a department to link the redevelopment of Duncan Village to the Mdantsane Urban Renewal Programme. Together with the municipality, we have budgeted R120 million over the next five years. Plans are afoot. We will launch this project during the course of this year.

In addition to that, we have budgeted R6,6 million for the Mdantsane Urban Renewal step-up. The same amount has been budgeted for Motherwell and Ngangelizwe.

Finally, we have a few projects that we have put together which we think are very, very important and pertinent in terms of the Minister’s pronouncements today. There are two projects of the Expanded Public Works Programme that we will launch soon. One is at Elundini, which is a bridge, built by the community, next to the border with Lesotho. In South Africa they built a bridge using the chasis of two buses. We have allocated for these special projects R358 000 to help this community develop or build a better bridge and internal roads. This will be linked to housing construction in the village.

The second one is at Mbekweni village in Lukhanji Municipality near Sada. We have allocated an amount of R1 million for this one … The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon MEC, your speaking time has expired.

Mr G NKWINTI: Thank you very much, the end of my speech. [Applause.]

Mr M SKWATSHA (Western Cape): Thank you very much, Chairperson, Minister of Transport, Comrade Jeff Radebe, Minister of Housing, Sis’ Lindi, Minister of Public Works, and all protocol observed.

Our people voted in large numbers on 14 April. They gave our Government the mandate to reduce unemployment and poverty by half in 2014. They further told Government to reduce unemployment by half through the creation of new jobs, through skills development, the provision of assistance to small businesses, the creation of opportunities for self-employment and working towards sustainable livelihood.

A further instruction was to ensure that our people have skills that are required by the economy and that resources are provided across society to encourage self-employment with an education system that is geared towards productive work, good citizenship and a caring society.

They said that over the next five years we must create one million jobs through the Expanded Public Works Programme, spend over R15 billion to facilitate the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Programme, intensify assistance to Umsobomvu Youth Fund and assist unemployed graduates to acquire work skills.

They said that we must pursue these and many other programmes, in partnership with all sections of our society, united in a people’s contract to create work and fight poverty.

Chairperson, both budgets of Public Works and Transport presented to us today respond to these challenges and the tasks given us by our people in the past election. I may just add that even the Budget Vote of Housing responds to this.

I would like to commend the national Department of Public Works for having implemented a comprehensive Community-Based Public Works Programme and the policy refinement exercises which improved the impact of these programmes in the past 10 years.

Our ability to respond in a dynamic manner to the needs of our people by implementing the Community-Based Public Works Programme has led the International Labour Organisation to describe these programmes as “the best public works programme in the developing world”, citing its labour- intensive construction methods and job creation potential. This acknowledgement formed part of yet another positive affirmation of the ANC- led Government’s commitment to building a better life for all our people, a better and prosperous Africa, and a just and fairer world. Chairperson, the people of the Western Cape have also demonstrated their preparedness to play their role in the realisation of the national priorities by voting for the ANC in large numbers. We have, accordingly, as government of the province, made an announcement that as part of the first 100 days of government activities we shall launch our Extended Public Works Programme. I will, in my budget speech on Tuesday, be announcing the date of the launch and the money allocated for this programme.

The month of June is Youth Month, and this is observed in honour of those young men and women who engaged the enemy in the struggle for freedom. This month we commemorate the heroes and heroines of our struggle who fell on June 16. My department, working together with the department of community safety, will provide financial support for some of the activities of the Bambanani (working together) project in the province. This project targets mainly young men and women who are volunteering and co-operating with government to build safe and secure communities. Bambanani forms part of our provincial Extended Public Works Programme.

In our 2004-05 budget speech, I will be making announcements on our plans to build new schools for historically disadvantaged communities. I believe that the provision of school buildings in these communities is an important contribution to ensuring that our children and the youth exercise their right to education. Through our school building programme, we will not only be creating jobs, but we will be creating opportunities for black businesses in the construction industry as part of our contribution to broad-based economic empowerment. Other infrastructure development projects include the building of a number of new hospitals in the province that will be accessible to all communities, especially the disadvantaged communities.

Chairperson, the Minister of Transport has indicated that while a lot of work and resources have gone into improving public transport since 1994, we are still far from having a system which is reliable, efficient, affordable and provides an integrated service to the citizens of this country. A renewed focus on public transport is necessary, if we are to achieve any further improvements in the system and also put the country in a position to host the 2010 Soccer World Cup successfully.

In the City of Cape Town, we have embarked on an ambitious project to initiate the improvement of public transport in the province. This project, called the Klipfontein Corridor Project, is the first phase of the Mobility Strategy and will link communities along the corridor to social and economic centres. Local economic development will be encouraged along the corridor, so will the building of bridges between communities long divided by the notorious apartheid system. This project will also provide a shining example of co-operative governance between three different spheres of government. Although we and the City of Cape Town initiated the project, Minister Radebe’s department has identified this project as a pilot project from which lessons extracted will inform plans in other cities in the country for the improvement of public transport. I want to take this opportunity to thank Minister Radebe for the continued support we have enjoyed from his department.

Chairperson, many of you have observed that the African population is visible in the city during the day and is hardly noticeable in the evening. This social and cultural trend is a manifestation of the effects of decades of political, social and economic marginalisation of the African people in the Western Cape. As we tackle the task of creating work and fighting poverty in the second decade of our freedom, we are faced with the peculiar task of undoing the marginalisation of African people in this particular province.

As part of tackling this and many other challenges, the provincial government has developed a Home for All and Ikapa Elihlumayo strategies. My department will use assets that are in its custody, and in co-operation with other departments, to facilitate the integration of communities in the Western Cape which have been divided by apartheid human settlement patterns. We urge the national department to reinforce this initiative and use the strategic assets it owns in the province to pursue such noble objectives. We shall ensure that our infrastructure development plans facilitate economic activity and development in historically disadvantaged areas.

Lastly, I firmly believe that these and many other initiatives constitute a major leap forward in the realisation of our strategic objective of creating a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous South Africa. I hereby support the Budget Votes. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D D MABUZA (Mpumalanga): Hon Deputy Chair of Chairs, hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, MECs in our midst and hon members, I feel honoured today to be afforded this opportunity to take part in this very important debate. I regard it as very important in many ways because it happens in a year that will go down in the annals of history as unforgettable. It is a year in which we are celebrating 10 years of our democracy; a year in which we have successfully held our free and fair democratic elections; a year in which, as Africa, we have been afforded the rare opportunity of hosting the Soccer World Cup in 2010; and a year in which a very important month has been dedicated to our youth and our future leaders.

All of the above I have mentioned serve as an indication of the road we have travelled thus far as a country, a road that presents a sense of hope to all our people that tomorrow will be a better day; the hope that tomorrow there will be food, the hope that tomorrow there will be shelter, water and jobs. This Government has scored many successes over the past 10 years, which give the people of this country at large, even the opposition, confidence in the direction the country is taking.

The Expanded Public Works Programme, which has been launched together with the Community-Based Public Works Programme, is but one instrument that will go a long way towards addressing the vexing problems of unemployment and hunger. Through these programmes, Minister, we agree fully with you that the rural and poor, men and women, people with disabilities, the unemployed, the unskilled and the youth stand to benefit. We stand ready as a province to make our own contribution, to play our part in bringing about the one million jobs that must be created.

Above all, this programme will take our infrastructure status to reasonable and acceptable heights, allowing us to close the gap between our first and second economies by creating more and more opportunities for our people to take active roles in the economy. This programme will further boost the skills levels of our people, making them better artisans and entrepreneurs, capable of employing themselves and employing others.

We welcome the allocation. It will go a long way towards tackling the challenges before us, though we acknowledge that the backlog is too immense. We are on board and ready to travel with you, Minister, in our quest to build a nonracial, nonsexist democratic and prosperous South Africa, a South Africa better poised to play its rightful role in Africa and the world at large.

The state of our roads in the province … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Thank you, Deputy Chair of Chairs. With respect to the Housing Budget Vote, the DA welcomes the announcement of the inflation- linked subsidy increases. We would also like to see a review of the cut-off point in the earning levels of beneficiaries who qualify for a subsidy, which should be raised from the current maximum income of R3 500 per month, an amount that has been the same since the inception of the subsidy scheme.

Two years ago I drew the attention of this House to the problem of builders and suppliers not bothering to submit tenders for low-cost housing contracts, because the quality of their work and materials made them uncompetitive. A major irrigation company informed me that they had restructured their business to remedial work, replacing the substandard piping installed in Government contracts with cheaper contractors who supplied inferior building materials and pipes in order to win contracts.

When the Minister referred to the NHBRC’s investigation in her speech yesterday, this indicated that our worst fears had been realised, and we can only hope that the training programmes she has announced will begin to address this problem. I fear that training alone will not be enough, and greater oversight with respect to quality control will need to be more rigorously implemented by the NHBRC to prevent repetitions and further wastage in the future.

The NHBRC is now well established and some meaningful conclusions can be drawn from its recent track record. During 2001 and 2002 nearly two thirds of funds collected through enrolment and registration fees were absorbed by operating expenses, and during the same period only R2,6 million out of the R229 million or 1,1%, collected was needed to effect housing repairs. If one considers the number of homes enrolled by the NHBRC, this means in effect that the total repairs that were required amounted to less than R7 per house. The NHBRC’s audited financial statements for 2003 indicate that nearly R4,5 million was spent in effecting repairs, or 2,5% of the income collected in that financial year.

The DA is duly cognisant of the fact that the NHBRC had nearly 160 000 houses under warranty last year, with a total market value of R55 billion, and that the warranty reserve and accumulated surplus built up in the fund of R353 million equated to only 0,64% of this amount. Nevertheless, it is remarkable how little of the funds collected in order to protect the consumer actually end up being expended on housing repairs, especially when compared to the substantial costs of keeping the NHBRC operative. In addition, the flat rate of 1,3% charged on all houses provides very little incentive for any builder to exceed the building standards required by the manuals.

I would therefore like to propose two ideas, which could contribute to better building and lower costs, without undermining the concept of a comprehensive consumer warranty scheme, which the NHBRC provides. Firstly, the 1,3% levy should be replaced with a graduated levy in which builders who have consistently delivered a quality product qualify for a lower percentage levy. This will incentivise better quality building standards as excellent builders will be able to submit more competitive tenders, with the associated benefits of market forces dovetailing with Government policy.

Secondly, isn’t it time that an upper limit is fixed to the levy on a voluntary basis? It is generally accepted that warranty protection is required for the low-cost end of the market, but one finds it difficult to understand why a consumer purchasing, for example, a R2 million house should not have the option to decide whether he or she requires this form of insurance or not. Housing at this end of the market is almost always conducted by professionals, such as architects and engineers, who are already regulated by their own professional bodies and carry indemnities. One gains the impression that the 1,3% levy fixed at these levels is more a revenue-generating exercise than one motivated by any genuine need. I hope the Minister will consider these proposals. I thank you.

Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, angizwakalise nami koNgqongqoshe bakazwelonke nabezifundazwe abakhona lapha phakathi kwendawo ukuthi isandla sedlula ekhanda. [Chairperson, I would like salute the national Ministers and provincial MECs who are present here today.]

It is a great pleasure for me to participate in these debates. May I, right from the outset, begin with Housing. Whilst we support the budget, it must be acknowledged that housing in all parts of the country is experiencing a good deal of ups and downs in so far as land unavailability, poor structures and unemployment are concerned.

Regarding land unavailability, a developer in an area in Tintwa Village, Tokoza township, put up structures or houses in such a way that one could not differentiate between whether they were houses or shacks. They are so small that if one put in a double bed there is no space left to move around the bed. They were built with very poor materials. I can go on mentioning problems encountered in this area.

Perhaps it is sufficient to say that we were told that an investigation would be instituted, though this investigation has not yet seen the light of day. I hope that the Minister will take up this matter and clear up this mess. There are many other incidents in other townships on the East Rand worth mentioning, too many to detail in this short time. Lastly, there are many residents being evicted from their own houses, which are being sold without the knowledge of the owners. With my limited time available, let me move to Transport. I would like to say, briefly, that it is puzzling to see that huge subsidies are being pumped into buses, which are almost, in places, on the verge of extinction as 60% of transport is in the form of taxis. The IFP would like to see a shift in order that the correct amounts are channelled to the type of transport that is used most by commuters.

With regard to recapitalisation, this issue has been seen as a threat within the taxi industry, a threat in the sense that it will cater for the wealthy people. In short it means: “Abampofu bohlala bempofu naphakade.” [The poor shall stay poor forever.]

Concerning Public Works, this is a department that bears the brunt of all complaints. All the departments put the blame on it. This is probably because it is where construction and building begin. Nonetheless, Minister, you cannot always be blamed. I have seen the strategic plans you have drawn up, and if you follow these through, you will see the light.

Sihlalo, kulesi sikhashana nje sami esincane esisasele, amaZayoni ale Ndlu engakangishayeli izandla, ake ngiphindele emuva laphaya kwezokuthutha - ngoba ngiyazi uma sesiphelile isikhathi bazoshaya izandla. [Uhleko.] [Ubuwelewele.]

Kwezokuthutha, Ngqongqoshe, kunokwenzekayo okubonakalayo lapha ikakhulukazi kwi-black economic empowerment. Kukhona-ke izinkampani engingeke ngizibize ngegama lapha esezafaka izicelo zathola umsebenzi we-black economic empowerment. Zibe sezisuka-ke sezibhala ezicabheni zezimoto zabathile ukuze bathuthe, kube sengathi bathuthukisa ikhono labampisholo kanti yize.

Laba bantu basayina izivumelwano njengengxenye ye-closed corporation kodwa abazi lutho ukuthi kwenzekani futhi abathuthukiswa. Ekupheleni kwesikhathi, lo muntu unikezwa lesi sigadla angeke esasibenzisa ndawo bese ezithola nje esobishini ngaso ngoba ngeke asibeke noma atekise ngaso elokishini. Ngakho- ke Ngqongqoshe bengithi ake ulungenele lolu daba ngoba kumqoka kakhulu ukuthi kwaziwe ukuthi i-black economic empowerment ngempela ithuthukisa ikhono labantu abampisholo.

Ngiyamuzwa udadewethu laphaya elokhu ebelesele. Sengathi dadewethu ungalalela ngoba-ke okuningi awukwazi, ukuzwa ngenzwabethi. Ngqongqoshe, kumqoka kakhulu lokhu. Ngingaphinda mhlawumbe ngisho kuwe ukuthi izaba sezenziwe. Sengike ngafika ezinkampanini ezinjenga lezo. Kutholakele ukuthi izinkampani, njengoba zenzile, zibhalisa abaqondisi ngalama-closed corporations. Kube sekuthiwa, “Nina-ke seniyingxenye yalawa ma- corporations”, kushiwo kubashayeli. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[In the little time I’m left with, while the Zions of this House have not yet applauded me, let me go back to Transport - because I know when my time is up, they will clap. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

As far as transportation issues are concerned, Minister, something is happening, more particularly with regard to black economic empowerment. There are companies - and I’m not going to mention any names here - which have applied and received contracts in terms of black economic empowerment. These companies print their letterheads on the doors of some individuals’ vehicles so that these individuals can transport material as if these companies are developing the skills of blacks when they are not.

These people sign contracts as part of a close corporation, but they have no idea as to what is happening and they are not being developed. At the end of the term, this person is given this vehicle that he will not use anywhere, but finds himself in trouble because he cannot keep it and use it as a taxi in the township. So, Minister, I would ask you to intervene in this issue because it is important to know that black economic empowerment is genuinely developing blacks’ skills.

I can hear a sister there who is talking persistently. Sister, I wish you would listen, because there’s a lot you don’t know; what you have heard is hearsay. Minister, this is very important. I would also like to say to you again that the efforts that have been made have not yet reached companies like those. It has been discovered that, as companies have done, registered directors in these close corporations and drivers are told that they are part of these close corporations.]

Mr H D YAWA (North West): Sihlalo, aBaphathiswa bethu, Nkosazana Sigcau, Mphathiswa Sisulu nawe Bhunga elikhulu, ooSihlalo beeKomiti, ndiyabulisa kule Ndlu. [Chairperson, our hon Ministers, hon Queen Sigcau, Minister Sisulu, the caucus and the chairpersons of the Portfolio Committee, I greet you in this House.]

His Excellency the President of the Republic of South Africa, in his state of the nation address, delivered a loud and clear message to us all, particularly the department of public works of the North West. Most importantly, he said:

I am certain that you will discharge your responsibilities in this regard, sensitive to the important message communicated by our people . . . to all the hon members for your election to serve as the representatives of our people for the next years.

In response, we as the North West wish to report as follows. The capital development projects and major renovations, which can be used for learnerships, have been identified throughout the province. To this end, we are working in partnership with the Independent Development Trust; the Department of Labour; and the Construction Education and Training Authority. This will enable us not only to train unemployed youth, women and disabled persons in the main, but we will, through the learnerships, complete projects within our bigger infrastructure development programmes for the medium-term expenditure financial period.

On 2 April this year, we launched an Expanded Public Works Programme under the brand name Simelela. This, hon members, is a Setswana word which means to roll up sleeves and engage in real work, not talk on the touchline. For us, this is a very important programme which will enable us to create jobs and alleviate poverty within the shortest possible time, better the living standards and quality of life of the poorest of our people, and build capacity of communities and SMMEs through ongoing job training.

We will accomplish these strategic goals through the following objectives: to create jobs and alleviate poverty within the shortest possible time; to better the living standards and quality of the lives of the poorest segment of the North West province through employment opportunities; and to build capacity of communities and SMMEs through the ongoing training programme.

The strategic objectives are: to alleviate poverty and create jobs; provide skills training to workers; and to advise, monitor and evaluate reports on economic and social impact of the projects implemented. All these objectives will be fulfilled by the people of the North West, for job reservation has never been in the vocabulary of the ANC - from its inception.

The approach proposed advocates a greater level of co-ordination and ensures that poverty alleviation and Public Works initiatives complement the Government’s mainstream programme through labour-intensive methods, wherever possible and practical. The South African Government has identified unemployment as one of the key challenges facing our country. Many programmes exist to address this problem, and they have been drafted and developed after major summits in various fields, eg the Growth and Development Summit, the World Summit on Sustainable Development and various conferences. All these well-documented strategies need time to be implemented.

Some immediate relief with regard to unemployment is needed, and the North West government has set a target to halve unemployment from the current 43% to 22% by 2014, in accordance with national targets. It is our intention, and indeed our duty, to co-ordinate the creation of 22 000 jobs per year in the North West province as leaders and co-ordinators of the Expanded Public Works Programmes. As a result, we are reviewing our tender documents to ensure that all our projects are in line with the Expanded Public Works Programme and yield the expected results.

In conclusion, speaking for the majority of the people of the North West - including those who have not voted for the ANC, let me promise this august House that we shall always be available to account for our responsibility as the department of public works in the North West. I thank you. Kgomo le manamane a yona! [Thank you.]] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: May I take this opportunity to call upon hon Kghosi Tshivhase to address the House. I also welcome you back in this House, home is always home!

Kghosi K TSHIVHASE (Limpopo): Thank you very much, Chairperson. Indeed, I was here from 1994. Then I was 29 years old, but now I have grey hair.

Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers and MECs, hon permanent and special delegates of provinces, distinguished guests, comrades and compatriots, I honour you. Allow me to pass on the revolutionary greetings from the hon MEC for transport in Limpopo, Comrade Stan Motimele, who mandated me to address this august House on his behalf, as he could not come here for reasons beyond his control. He wished to be with you here today. However, rest assured this convergence enjoys both his unwavering support and all his blessings.

Transport has become a catalyst for sustainable economic development in Limpopo, now more than ever before. The 2010 soccer bid has compelled the province to revisit its transport strategy for the next five to ten years, in preparation for a million people who will visit the area for the above- mentioned occasion. This is also informed by the fact that we remain the best tourist destination in the country. For that reason, we would like to raise the following grey areas, which need attention in as far as massive funding is concerned. We are in the process of creating 14 000 jobs for the next five years and establishing the transport advisory board, which is intertwined with transport clusters. The implementation of taxi recapitalisation will run parallel with renewal of bus contracts and the introduction of subsidy systems in all districts, hence the “Limpopo in motion” concept.

We also face the mammoth task of consolidating international airports as well as marketing airports. Rail and freight transport will be consolidated through establishing a coach centre in Polokwane. The Dilokong Corridor concept will have a positive impact on black economic empowerment in the province. For efficient road traffic and safety, we will need more equipment and an increased number of peace officers.

The establishment of traffic control centres and refurbishment of vehicle testing centres have to be prioritised. The Limpopo Traffic College must be marketed beyond South Africa, and eventually serve the entire continent. Road safety programmes will encapsulate scholar transport in the form of animal-drawn carts, bicycle projects, motorcycles and tractors. “Animal- drawn carts” refers to donkey carts, in this instance.

The state of both bus and taxi terminuses in the province will have to be upgraded as a matter of urgency, with the aim of improving public transport infrastructure. One area which still needs attention is human resource development.

All these programmes have been synchronised, and a thorough action plan is embodied in our “100 days in office” document. The province has completed the transport strategy, which is called ``Limpopo in motion’’. The strategy addresses the thrust that is contained in the provincial White Paper on transport. The province, together with members of the transport sector, has pledged to create 14 000 direct jobs and 45 000 indirect jobs in the next five years.

Mass public transport will be a priority, and all interim contracts will be converted into tender contracts in the next five years. The transport sector is preparing to introduce an integrated transport system at a presidential nodal point in Sekhukhune. The province will, as from this year, start with the upgrading programme of all provincial airports. The main target in this regard is Polokwane International Airport. Human resources management is a serious concern in this area. Limpopo traffic college has extended its assistance to other neighbouring countries. A complete strategic plan of the department will be available to all members in due course.

The Limpopo department of transport has joined hands with the entire nation in creating jobs and fighting poverty. I thank you. [Applause.]

Rev E ADOLPH: Hon Chairperson, I would like to honour the national Ministers, the MECs, guests and special delegates. It’s indeed a privilege for me to congratulate the newly-appointed Minister, Dr Lindiwe Sisulu, on her new portfolio. Madam, I would like to challenge you: This is indeed a daunting task that is on your shoulders now, which is to assist the department to become an institution of excellent service delivery. I am also very mindful that you will have to rely on the assistance of all other departments to implement what was stated in the President’s state of the nation address.

The ID wants to commend the ANC-led Government for the major successes they have had within the three different departments in the past 10 years of democracy. We are mindful that they have achieved a lot. But, that does not mean that we don’t need to rectify where we have made mistakes.

The huge backlog in housing is a major concern, and will remain a major one. Our concern and major point of dispute is the poor quality housing for our poorest of the poor - the people. The Minister alluded to this in her speech when she said we should deliver quality houses to our people, and not just homes.

I want to mention to this House that I had an opportunity, prior to the elections, to visit some construction sites. I observed some poor quality materials that were being used to build houses in the North West province. It was appalling to us that you could even scratch the bricks with your finger, because the material was of such poor quality. Those houses were not suitable for human habitation. Even trees - believe it or not - grew out of the poor foundation through the house. This can be verified in townships such as Huhudi and Danville in Mafikeng, which is closer to us.

I want to challenge all members, including the national Ministers, to address the poor quality of housing in South Africa. I want to challenge you to go and live for at least three days over the weekend in one of those toilet matchboxes that we call RDP houses which were built for our people - in order to get acquainted with the severe circumstances and harsh conditions that our people have to live in. [Interjections.]

Despite that, we wish to reach out a hand as ID. We will assist the ANC-led Government in performing the contract that is an obligation to the people. The ID are concerned about maladministration, and we are so glad that the soon-to-be established special investigating directorate will deal with maladministration. I hope the national Minister will bring us a forensic report on this issue regarding Huhudi township. Please familiarise yourself, Minister, and we would like to have a response from the public prosecutor. In the final analysis, I think we need to rigorously debate roll-overs and underexpenditure. It is a shame that every year we have roll- overs. This House needs to debate that rigorously.

The last issue I want to mention is that of redline zones, which are a remnant of the former apartheid structure. We pay the same amount for a brick in order to build a house. But, due to the fact that they are in the so-called coloured or black townships, our houses are labelled as “built in redline zone”. We need to involve banks to disclose the criteria on how to label a house “redlined” because people break into houses in towns as well as in townships. I think this will have financial spin-offs for all of us. We also need to encourage banks … [Time expired.]

Mr T MHLAHLO (Eastern Cape): Hon Chair, I also wish to join the House in extending a word of congratulations to you and the hon members who were given the task of running this institution.

In the Eastern Cape there are a number of challenges that confront public transport, and our approach is to respond according to Government policies. Large parts of rural communities’ areas are inadequately served by public transport services and transport infrastructure facilities. In accordance with the National Land Transport Transitional Act of 2000, the MEC responsible for transport should guide and direct transport planning and implementation in the province. Plans, such as the rural transport development plan, have been prepared to enhance land use and transport- integrated development, and to bridge interaction between rural and urban areas in our province.

The department intends to vigorously implement transportation projects that will address job creation as part of the Expanded Public Works Programme, the Integrated Rural Development Programme, urban renewal and land use, as well as HIV and Aids. Fragmented planning and management of the transport system, however, are some of the biggest stumbling blocks in achieving effective service delivery in our province.

The local municipalities and the Department of Transport have identified rail as a very important element for future support of freight and public transport in the province. As a mode of freight transport, rail has declined owing mainly to the deregulation of freight transport since the late eighties and an unequal playing field between road and rail. Currently, the rail infrastructure is underutilised and has spare capacity that we need to access.

This has resulted in the provincial network being classified by Spoornet as predominantly low-density and light-density lines, with only the Port Elizabeth to Gauteng line being considered a core line. The underutilised rail infrastructure and excessive road damage caused by freight in the province suggest that rail freight transport and passenger transport should be promoted in such a manner that they support the socioeconomic development and growth of the Eastern Cape. The rail network of the Eastern Cape consists of approximately 3 360 route kilometres and 450 stations, with these assets belonging mainly to Spoornet.

In our own move back to rail strategy, studies have been undertaken with a view to revitalising operations in the existing rail systems or developing its extensions. Firstly, the Kei Rail: East London-Umtata Rail Project, one of the provincial flagship projects, is one element. Secondly, a Coega Industrial Development Zone transport study has been undertaken. The East London to King William’s Town rail study of 2000 for commuter service has also been undertaken. The Port Elizabeth to East London rail study of 1996 for commuter service is another aspect. The Motherwell route identification and station location study of 2000 for commuter service is another component of our broad strategy for the revitalisation of these important infrastructures of Government.

Several new proposals have been identified within the Eastern Cape, but they are still being scrutinised to ascertain the role they could play in reinforcing commuter rail as the backbone of the public transport system in our province. Other proposals and business plans have been received from the private sector and individuals seeking approval for the use of railway lines for ecotourism and other purposes. These constitute the key progress we have made and which, I think, we can also utilise in future.

Currently, the department’s main focus is on the Kei Rail Project. The refurbishment process started in 1998 and its completion is expected by September this year. About R132 million has been spent since the start of this project, and R67 million went to the 773 labourers, who benefited from the implementation of this project. The department has also commissioned four contracts to refurbish the existing rail between aMabele and Umtata, as part of the Kei Rail Project. Contracts for the upgrading of station buildings at certain major stations along the line have been advertised and awarded, thus creating additional jobs in terms of a strategic approach to the generation of infrastructure in our province.

We believe, in the province, that going back to rail is the only route we have, and we strongly believe, with the interventions of the national Minister, that it is possible in this country to revitalise railway lines and provide job opportunities, as well as to make a great impact on both economic empowerment and the reorganisation of our economy in this country. We also believe that Kei Rail, hon Minister Radebe, does have the potential to link KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape and, further, to integrate our economic strategies.

With these few words, I also want to join members in endorsing the policy statements that have been presented by both Ministers to this House. We really think, as a province, that rail is the only flagship in terms of which national Government can make concrete interventions in generating economic opportunities in the province.

I also wish to announce that on 18 June next week the hon Minister Radebe will be at a sod-turning ceremony, which is a result of this Kei Rail Project in the Transkei. The Transkei is a very important region which we need to attend to in terms of addressing poverty and revitalising our infrastructure. With those few words, thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr G SITHOLE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Ministers and MECs, I’m not sure whether Mr Mzizi should be going out now when I have a few minutes, even though I have papers that I need to read here and that the ANC says I must read. So Mr Mzizi should sit down. [Laughter.] This is on housing, and I really do not wish to bring the Zulu conflicts on housing into this hon House and, of course, the heavenly ideas from the most Rev Adolph. However, we, as Africans, used to have no addresses at all. I don’t want hon Minister Sisulu to be discouraged here. We now have addresses, and not only addresses, but also actual shelters. Comrade President Mbeki says there is going to be an improvement in those shelters. It is not fair for people who have always had addresses and shelters to say we shouldn’t have shelters. That is just one thing.

I would now like to mention what I’ve prepared. Please, people, just be patient with us. We will get palaces too in the future. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] I have already said that. Being conscious of the mandate our communities gave all of us at home on 14 April, all parties alike have agreed that in the cities, and especially outside the cities where development is sorely missed, the Department of Public Works must quickly polish up its methods of operation and so develop and create an atmosphere conducive to service excellence.

We will be successful if we hasten the department’s transformation agenda, by sharpening the mechanisms and processes of implementation. Back at home we also had a royal command by Imbube - ngiyazi-ke abanye abazukuyazi iMbube [I know that some people wouldn’t know what Imbube is] - that the Expanded Public Works Programme, introduced by the national and provincial governments, must not fail to address the rural stomachs and souls. The President of South Africa has concurred and attached timeframes to the royal command. The hon Premier Ndebele, with the assistance of his colleague the hon Mr Gwala, MEC, has been given presidential notice to deliver or else. The President said: “Implement our programme to address the challenges of the second economy.” Clearly, therefore, we are directed to improve our delivery capacity. Our services must earn us the appreciation of our communities, which have long been excluded from where bread is baked. We must improve our budget management, so that there is efficiency where delivery is taking place or where it should be happening.

As the custodian of the state’s assets, the department is committed to maximising the value of the state’s property portfolio. The Government-Wide Immovable Asset Management Bill will be finalised this year. There will be expert advice at all levels of Government and public entities on immovable assets. Job creation and poverty alleviation will be the outcome of the Expanded Public Works Programme that, in turn, will consolidate our provincial peace efforts and consolidate the curbing of crime.

There is no doubt that the transformation processes that the national and provincial governments are working on will yield visible construction and property industries for our country. The mentioned programmes have the capacity to further strengthen the growing economy and produce skilled workers that will participate fruitfully in the economy. Obviously, this is a direct investment in social and economic infrastructure. Human resource development, through the training of our unskilled communities, ensures a stronger, safer and more coherent tomorrow.

The department has an important task, which we all understand and need to support, inside and outside Government. The programmes are necessary instruments in creating short-term jobs and training. The KwaZulu-Natal province has been extremely fortunate in securing the services, even if for a short time only, of the former hon Mike Mabuyakhulu who, through the department’s battle cry “Asisebenze”, managed to arouse the rural and urban committees alike to wake up and do things themselves for themselves. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G RAMATHEBANE (Free State): Deputy Chairperson, Ministers, MECs, hon delegates and special delegates of the NCOP, I would like to thank the three Ministers for the encouraging policy statements they tabled before us today. Indeed, there is hope for a better life for all. As the Free State we also want to voice our support for these policy statements by also addressing a few areas in which we are going to be involved in the province in our attempt to make this a reality.

As part of our endeavour to provide decent and quality shelter in terms of housing, the province will target all buffer zones in promoting social inclusion through the eradication of spatial distortions. Dedicated efforts will be made to applying the various pieces of legislation necessitating proper land-use planning, accelerating land release while preventing urban sprawl in the process.

The quality of houses needs urgent attention. Inexperienced contractors have contributed to the building of houses of unacceptable standards. Quality homes, as opposed to just houses, will be the main focus of the province. We are not just paying lip service to this.

Regarding our engagement with the communities in the build-up to the elections, a passionate plea was made regarding the corruption and fraud in housing delivery. We have instituted some forensic investigations in the province in an attempt to weed out this acceptable and much-detested practice among the developers, municipalities, government officials and community members that collude with these culprits. Some criminal cases have been opened with the police, and civil action in some instances is taking its course.

The other matter that is also cause for concern is underspending as it has really been a major setback in housing delivery, despite our acute poverty levels and the stark reality of a great shortage of houses for ordinary people who are expected to brave this cold winter without shelter. In addressing this problem, our province has made a conscious decision to cancel all contracts, contractors, contracts of contractors who are not performing and to allocate these subsidies to those who do perform.

The introduction of the People’s Housing Process ensured that beneficiaries were actively involved in the construction of their homes, thus gaining valuable skills that can be turned into valuable economic sustainability tools. In implementing these efforts, we have also enlisted Cuban expertise.

The acceleration of rural housing delivery in Qwaqwa in the Maluti-a- Phofung municipality and Thaba ‘Nchu in the Mangaung municipality is a priority for this financial year. To this effect, 2 000 additional housing units will be built in these two areas. The department of local government and housing is also working with the Department of Land Affairs and the respective municipalities towards upgrading land tenure for the communities in these areas.

At a minimum, transport must function as a guarantee of national integration. Clearly, this calls for Government to take the position that views transport as an enabling industry.

It is against this background, in the spirit of a better life for all, that we deal with the challenges faced by both public and freight transport. At the level of public transport, the following need to be looked at. The first aspect is to densify the corridors and nodes to achieve economies of scale, effectively turning around the current trend towards dispersal. We also have to optimise model economics and the service mix through infrastructure investment to support the corridors by selecting the optimal mode based on the cost-service trade-off. We also have to firm the level of performance through negotiated bus tendering contracts.

As far as the roads infrastructure is concerned, the department will align the provisioning and maintenance of our road network with the strategies of the Free State Development Plan as well as Vision 2014. In line with this, we have allocated R298 million. The focus for the 2004-05 financial year will be on the following. We will improve accessibility to rural communities, specifically the Selosesha road in Thaba ‘Nchu, Meqheleng in Ficksburg, and the Oppermansgronde and Makwane roads in Qwaqwa, which will be undertaken and completed in this financial year.

We will also identify the most appropriate strategic road network for the province, which will support road safety, tourism and socioeconomic development with the minimum impact of the environment. Towards this end, the Maluti Transfrontier Project that will integrate the Golden Gate Resort, the Mountain Resort and KwaZulu-Natal will be undertaken together with the national Department of Transport.

We will also investigate alternative mechanisms of service delivery through a road worker empowerment programme and give preference to preventative maintenance instead of routine maintenance so as to ensure effective utilisation of scarce resources.

The following road construction projects will be initiated during this financial year. They are the Vaalpark interchange at Sasolburg; the regravelling of roads in the Bethlehem area; the repair and resealing of the Excelsior-Clocolan-Tweespruit road; and the repair and resealing of the first 10 kilometres of the Bloemfontein-Dealesville road, which I assure this House will be completed in this financial year.

In acknowledging the challenges that we are faced with and the importance of public transport, we have assigned an amount of R18 million to this effect. Towards this end, the Free State Transport Bill has been compiled to replace the Free State Interim Transport Act of 1998. The envisaged Bill will address the problem of the duplication of laws and ensure that there is a single law applicable to buses, taxis and all other modes of public transport. Maybe this is a direct response to the IFP’s assertions.

Regarding Public Works, we are called upon as a department to lead job creation principally through the Expanded Public Works Programme. An important element of the programme is the large-scale expansion in the use of labour-intensive construction methods to build, upgrade and maintain the social and economic infrastructure and all other underdeveloped rural and urban areas of our province. An amount of R52 million has been allocated to this programme in this financial year that will, among other things, see the creation of 10 000 jobs within the construction industry.

The Expanded Public Works Programme will be launched at the beginning of September 2004, with special focus on the urban and rural nodes already identified in terms of our urban renewal and Integrated and Sustainable Rural Development Programme. We are pleased to announce that the Department of Public Works - Roads and Transport - has already engaged the Construction Education Training Authority, that is Ceta, and that an amount of R10 million has been allocated for road construction and maintenance during the first phase, and the training of 500 learners will commence during October 2004.

A memorandum of agreement between the department and Ceta was signed on 9 June 2004, and negotiations with the Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority and the transport education and training authority are in progress, which will culminate in the enhancement of our scarce skills. With these words, the Free State also supports the policy statements of the three Ministers and we support them wholeheartedly. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs V TAMBO (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, hon Ministers and members at large, let me take this opportunity to thank the Minister of Housing for the healthy, progressive budget speech she presented in this House today, and to thank the team that prepared the budget.

We note the fact that the department is facing a huge backlog in almost all the provinces, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal, so the demand for housing is growing at a higher pace than the backlog can be addressed.

The programme on housing is explicit, particularly with reference to rural housing, hostel upgrading, human settlement redevelopment, rental housing, housing for HIV/Aids victims and others. This means that we all need to thoroughly scrutinise all the core functions of the Department of Housing and the legislative mandate.

We appreciate the new approach adopted by the department which explains the shift from a private developer-driven approach to a municipality-driven approach, so as to allow municipalities to become developers in housing delivery, with the provision that cases in which a municipality lacks the necessary capacity, the Department of Housing will intervene and facilitate housing development.

There’s also a need for a major drive to capacitate municipalities to be able to be effective developers of housing. I must, again, salute the Minister of Housing for increasing the housing subsidies. However, the establishment grant for the people’s housing process has never been increased from the time it was introduced. It has remained at R570 even though the costs for capacitating communities have increased over the years. Since most of the projects in KwaZulu-Natal follow the People’s Housing Process route, it would be appreciated if the establishment grant could be increased to take care of all the necessary instruments needed to capacitate beneficiaries to be able to participate in the process of building their own houses themselves.

There are the challenges of quality housing delivery and speedy housing delivery which would unblock blocked projects in order to provide affordable shelter to the citizens of KwaZulu-Natal and housing for HIV and Aids victims. In 2003-04 as many houses as possible have been approved, which is aimed at facilitating more effective and efficient housing delivery in the province of KwaZulu-Natal. The theme of Asibambisane has been adopted, which is focused on addressing the housing delivery process.

In order to achieve our goals we have had to do everything by the rules, including capacity-building and team-building exercises, disciplinary measures and rewards to guide the massive organisation to move forward.

The Government has prioritised rental housing, but the main problem is that the institutions that are meant to provide and administer rental housing are greatly affected by the high level of defaulters.

There is a need for the national Housing department to provide provinces with adequate funding to provide detailed housing plans in each municipality. These housing plans will ensure that there are clearly defined provincial housing plans. The contribution of R2 479 by beneficiaries remains a challenge.

To conclude, we need to listen to the President of the country - Zizi - when he says that we are now in an era of implementation, rather than policy formulation. Therefore we all need to stand up, unite and work for all South Africans. Asibambisane! [Let’s work together!] I thank you. [Applause.]

Rre T T TSIKWE (Northern Cape): Modulasetulo, Motlotlegi Tona Jeff Radebe, Motlotlegi Tona Lindiwe Sisulu, Motlotlegi Tona Stella Sigcau, ntletleng ke tle ke lo leboge ka kabo e lo e diretseng Kapa Bokone gonne sejo sennye ga se fete molomo. Ke rata e kare mo nakong e e tlang fa re dira dikabo, re dire dikabo go ya ka mo go tlhokegang e seng go ya ka bontsi jwa batho mo porofenseng.

Fa re boela kwa manifestong wa African National Congress, o o re nayang gore re dirile kgolagano le batho mme batho ba re reetsa ba re neela tshono ya gore tiro e re e dirang e ntle tota. Ke ka jalo re reng gore re nne le ditsela tse di siameng le dirori tsa rona di tle di siame, re dirile gore kwa Kapa Bokone, we are going to construct a 43km road mo gareng ga Kleinsee le Komaggas kwa Namaqualand. E tla re ja R49 million mme e tla kgona go ka bonela batho ba le 90 tiro. Re ya go dira gape tsela ya 21km kwa Kapa Bokone ya R20.8 million, yona e tla kgona go bonela batho ba le 65 tiro. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Mr T T TSIKWE (Northern Cpae): Chairperson, hon Minister Jeff Radebe, hon Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, and hon Minister Stella Sigcau, allow me to thank you for what you have done for the Northern Cape, because half a loaf is better than nothing. It is my wish that in future when we give assistance, we should do so according to the need and not according to the population in the province.

When we return to the ANC Manifesto, we see that it says that we have signed a contract with the people who listen to us and give us a chance to do good work. That is why we are saying that for us to have tarred roads, which would save our vehicles in the Northern Cape, we are going to construct a 43km stretch of road between Kleinsee and Komaggas in Namaqualand. It will cost us R49 million and it will create 90 jobs. We are also going to construct a 21 km stretch of road in the Northern Cape, at cost of R20,8 million, and this will create 65 jobs.]

Re ya go dira le tsela e e yang kwa Sutherland e e leng gore e tla ya kwa observatory … [We are going to build a road through Sutherland to the observatory … ] that will cost R8,9 million and create about 90 jobs; a road around Upington at R25,7 million, including a road from Keimoes to Upington in association with the BHP Billiton; there is a plan to continue a road from Mamatwane “go ya” to Didibeng and to contribute R9 million to a bridge linking Vrededorp and Blouputs “yona e tla kosa” [and this will cost] R28 million.

Due to lack of transport in rural areas and due to large numbers of learners walking more that three kilometres single trip between school and home, a bicycle project, known as Shova Kalula will be availed. An investigation into the usage of heavy transport will take place and a mechanism is needed to curb deteriorating roads. Thus we need to reintroduce rail transport due to the Koega project that will connect people from the Northern Cape through to De Aar and Prieska. [Interjections.]

Ke ya go fetsa ka bonako, o se ka wa tshoga. [Setshego.] [I will be finished very soon, do not worry. [Laughter.]]

Public Works is well placed for the creation of jobs and therefore has to use its existing budget to maximise job creation. There will be a multipurpose hall built in the Frances Baard region for extracurricular activities for the community of Floors, which will focus on the youth. The construction of the new community hall in Calvinia in the Namaqua region will also commence in September. A mass sports participation programme will be launched, and 30 people and volunteer workers will be employed and receive R1 200 per month. The Mayibuye Centre in Galeshewe will provide one thousand temporary jobs over the period of construction. In Dibeng and Hopetown sports facilities will provide 100 people with jobs during the twelve months of construction.

We are committed to changing our province from being a social province, which is a province of beggars where people are relying on handouts. Most of the primary products and mineral products of this country are from the Northern Cape. We lobby your support to ensure that those raw materials be reproduced in our province to increase the creation of job opportunities. We cannot be apologetic to people playing truant when they are supposed to attend their committees. We want to have a hands-on approach with regards to funds transferred to district municipalities so as to monitor mechanisms that will ensure that projects are completed in set time frames and that tenders are not given to companies that have incomplete projects. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, today I wish to address the House on an important matter regarding transport. But let me start by also wishing the Minister of Transport well in this new appointment in which he will undoubtedly face some daunting challenges. I am sure that all Ministers will be taking the state of the nation address delivered by the hon President on 21 May as their directive for the immediate future. I do not have to remind the Minister, I am sure, that the President placed great emphasis on the improvement of the quality of life of our people and the eradication of poverty. This, the President said must be achieved by, inter alia, encouraging the growth of the first economy and thereby increasing its possibility to create jobs.

Central to his address were also many issues related to transport, and in the context of this debate the two subjects are interrelated. Increased job creation must obviously also go hand in hand with the protection of existing jobs by ensuring that industries presently within the economy remain viable and profitable and of course have sustainable grip. It is common knowledge that the deterioration of our rail networks and infrastructure has indirectly led to a massive growth in the road freight industry, which is a major employer to many thousands of our people today and, as such, must be recognised for its role in the systematic eradication of poverty.

It is also true that road freight has become extremely competitive, and only those within the industry that are well-managed and staffed by competent and well-trained employees can survive. Clearly, therefore, your department has a duty to protect those deployed and employed within the industry while facilitating and encouraging growth through interaction with other departments. We also know that trade with our neighbouring countries is growing by the day so cross-border road freight has become big business. The problem is that our South African freight operators are presently being disadvantaged to the benefit of their opposition transporters from across our boarders.

This has come about due to the extremely heavy cross-border levies imposed on the freight by our neighbouring states, while their own carriers are neither levied when leaving their home countries nor levies by us when they enter South Africa. The amounts involved and the formulas applied for calculating such levies vary from one country to another. Whilst Lesotho and Swaziland, for example, have moderate levies, the same cannot be said for our other neighbours. Other levies vary from R1 000 per single trip into Namibia to as much as R52 000 per annum per each individual freight vehicle used to travel into Botswana, regardless of the number of trips undertaken in a given year.

The freight industries in our neighbouring countries therefore have a distinct advantage of at least R1 000 on each load carted into and between the two countries over our own freighters. This unfair advantage to our neighbours results in the loss of cardidge and contracts to our own contractors for our own freighters which in turn must undoubtedly - you will agree I am sure - lead to the loss in revenue and ultimately to a negative growth in job creation. My plea to you, therefore, hon Minister, is that cross-border levies for freighters entering our country must at least be matched to ensure a level playing field for all the competitors. And I urge you to interact with other departments and parastatals in this regard.

By such actions we would not be advantaging or disadvantaging anyone, but merely ensuring that the role-players have an equal chance to compete for business and in so doing the fittest will survive. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs G S SINDANE (Mpumalanga): Mhlonishwa Sihlalo neliSekela lendlu yetifundza, bahlonishwa tindvuna tavelonkhe, bahlonishwa malunga etigungu tabohulumende betifundza, bahlonishwa bendlu yetifundza netifundza, siyanibingelela ngelivi lesifundza seMphumalanga. [Hon Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Ministers, hon members of local governments, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, we bring you greetings from Mpumalanga province!]

The Department of Housing remains a critical role-player in the central aim of transforming the living conditions of our people, especially the poor. The Minister, in her Budget Vote today and her predecessors in theirs, are providing us with the possibility to construct the houses, infrastructure, create jobs and fight poverty. It is on this foundation that opportunities for qualitative advances to be scored prevail. These advances are in pursuance of the historic mission as correctly articulated in our noble document the Freedom Charter: “There shall be houses for all”, as rightfully echoed in the Minister’s budget policy speech.

Our province is committed to deliver houses that restore pride and dignity to our people. The motto of our housing delivery is ``bigger and better’’. In this regard, our department decided to take charge of the design of the plans of the houses to be constructed. Now we build bigger and better- looking houses. Our people are happy to call them houses.

It is our resolve that we continue to offer houses with a minimum of 40 m² in size that are authentically enhanced and of good quality. It is our endeavour to ensure that the sustainability of houses is established. The department is gradually implementing the 400 m² minimum standard size policy in urban areas and minimum 1 000 m² stand size in rural areas. This is done to benefit the beneficiaries particularly when their families and their means grow. The beneficiaries are able to grow plants and vegetables in their yards so as to sustain their livelihood and also to avoid the slum settlements. One of our priorities is to build houses right where people are. This is one of the main responsibilities we have towards discouraging migration of people from rural areas to urban areas, which results in the emergence of shack towns. We add value to living and make people’s lives better right where they live.

We are aware that we still have a backlog in housing delivery. It is our plan that in the next five years we should speed up delivery. Our plan is in response to the President’s call to speed up delivery in his state of the nation address, and we will deliver to the people of Mpumalanga no less than 4 115 houses within one hundred days. We also hope to finalise the financing of the Emalahleni presidential job summit project with the private sector. It is our belief that the financial institutions have an important role to play in housing delivery. We are planning officially to open this project by next month, July 2004. This is one of the many exciting projects we have witnessed developing in the province. We will showcase for all in the country how we deliver, with an effort to dealing with human settlement and the close racial divide in a predominantly rural province.

It is our plan that in the coming few years similar projects will be launched in the towns of our province. This is our rental stock in housing provision. We are also looking at redevelopment of all hostels in the province to change them and ensure that we have a suitable settlement for families. These are all efforts of the ANC Government to rid ourselves of the vestiges of apartheid settlement patterns. We currently have two such redevelopments taking place at Umkhonto in the province. The project will be completed next year. The other identified hostels are at Govan Mbeki, Emalahleni, Ermelo, Bethal and Barberton.

In the process of redevelopment we ensure that job creation, skills development and skills transfer, especially for the youth and women, including disabled persons, are taking place. In line with our commitment to the people’s contract, our department has created opportunities for 797 emerging contractors to take part in housing delivery. The breakdown is that 28.6% is owned by youth, 26.2% by women, 6% by people with disabilities, and the remainder is for other categories.

In the same vein, we welcome the Minister’s initiative of setting up a special investigating unit in the department. We believe hat this unit will be of great help in rooting out corruption and maladministration. We also welcome the determination of the Minister in capacity building to our municipalities.

In the coming months, starting from the current month, we will be handing over houses to the beneficiaries all over the province. This will form part of our celebration. We have also embarked on a survey to determine the exact number of the informal and mud houses in the province so that we know exactly what our backlog is and come up with an appropriate response plan before the end of July 2004. This is our contribution to the policy debate on housing. Mpumalanga supports the policy of the department and hopes that more funds will be made available to the department and to the provinces in the next MTEF. And the end of our term we must be remembered as people who surely delivered the goods for a better life for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P GOVENDER (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Ministers - both national and provincial - members of the House, our British visitors, if they are still here, good day, I bring you warm greetings from the Kingdom of the Zulu. I will be speaking on Vote 6 and that is Public Works. The department of works has a vision, and that is to remain leaders in the provision of public property and facilities. To achieve this, the department needs to embark on special programmes to address the needs that exist within the public sector and the community at large. In this regard I refer specifically to the issues surrounding gender equality, youth development, youth empowerment, employment equity, HIV/Aids, the physically challenged and women’s empowerment.

The department of works has a vital role to play on various issues concerned with supporting people from historically disadvantaged communities to enter into the mainstream of the economy. Therefore, it is imperative that when contracts are awarded, emerging companies from these communities are given an opportunity to establish themselves as role- players. This in no way implies that the quality of work should be compromised in any way.

The department of works must continue to attract BEE companies. It is often found that established large companies are awarded contracts, and they subcontract these contracts to smaller companies, thus retaining the lion’s share of the profits. In this way small companies are not empowered to become employers, but remain employees.

One of the threats that face the department of works, as it does all other departments, is that of HIV/Aids. The devastating impact this pandemic has on our country cannot be ignored by any department, and therefore strategies should immediately be put in place to face this threat head-on.

Another area that needs urgent attention is the inability to attract high calibre and skilled staff. This leads to targets not being met, or if they are met, the results are not per se the desired standards. There is often and imbalance in terms of skills that are available as compared to the skills that are required to deliver services. As with some other departments, the Department of Public Works is also faced with the problem of losing skilled staff to foreign countries. In KwaZulu-Natal we are also losing skilled professionals to other provinces, especially Gauteng. This, on one hand, makes us proud in the sense that we produce much sought-after professionals. But on the negative side, it creates a vacuum within our province, and this needs to be addressed urgently. Nationally we need to ensure that our skilled professionals are given proper incentives, so that they will remain within our borders.

It is often reported that thousands of jobs are created via public works programmes. Whilst this is what the country requires, the question that needs to be answered is: Are these long-term programmes, or are they short- term initiatives that cannot be sustained? If they cannot be sustained, then one needs to ask just how sincere we are about job creation and poverty alleviation.

Keeping in mind the high level of poverty and unemployment in KwaZulu- Natal, it will be very encouraging if the citizens of our province could feel the benefit of the Expanded Public Works Programme in a tangible way. Therefore, I appeal to you, hon Minister, to look favourably upon KwaZulu- Natal in this regard, because I know that the Expanded Public Works Programme has tremendous potential to benefit our province.

The high levels of unemployment amongst our youth should also be treated as a matter of concern for public works. The department of works has to focus on programmes that will empower our youth with skills, and provide them with opportunities to gain experience in the workplace. If it does not, then it will be relegating our youth to remain unproductive economically. Our youth also needs to be catered for with regard to recreational facilities, and the Department of Public Works has a responsibility to provide infrastructure within communities, so that our youth can be gainfully occupied whilst developing essentials skills.

Facilities that cater for the needs of those in our province who are physically challenged are sadly inadequate. It is often found that public buildings are not user friendly to those who are physically challenged. The department needs to address this issue as a matter of urgency.

Hon Minister, centres that cater for the needs of our senior citizens and facilities for women’s empowerment need swift and urgent attention. It is sad to know that our senior citizens, who have contributed so much to our democracy, are now marginalised. They need to be shown the respect that they so richly deserve. Women in our province have just as much to offer as men have to offer, therefore they must be provided with opportunities to empower themselves so that they can take their rightful place in our society. They can do this only if the necessary infrastructure is made available to them, and the Department of Public Works needs to place this item high on its list of priorities. I thank you.

Mrs H F MATLANYANE: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members, the mandate that the ANC was given on 14 April was very overwhelming. In accordance with this mandate, we are going to ensure that, together with the people, we sign a contract to ensure that we eradicate poverty and create jobs. Indeed, we have come a long way since 1994 to ensure that delivery goes even to the rural poor. This is South Africa and Africa’s time to ensure that we eradicate poverty.

Transport forms an integral part of a developing country like ours. Our economy relies largely on a transport system that is reliable, safe, effective, efficient and affordable to the poor. Our transport policy must always take into consideration the needs of the poor, the elderly, the unemployed, scholars and people with disabilities. Access to job opportunities, government services and tourism all rely on a good transport system that will not fail them.

Previous policies moved people away from economic activities, that ensured that the previously disadvantaged had to pay more for transport in order to access services. High rates of accidents, both on road and rail, are also contributing factors.

Hon Minster, your department is charged with a challenge and responsibility to ensure that infrastructure is improved and movement, both of goods and people, are increased through subsidies. A five-year road infrastructure strategy was approved to deal with, and prevent, the deterioration of our roads. In line with the resolutions of the gross domestic summit of June 2003, the department embarked on integrated labour-intensive road construction programmes, together with Department of Public Works. This ensured that local people, preferably women, were skilled through training to work on rural roads. The department, together with the private sector, is involved in a special development initiative, using public resources, in project planning, scoping and co-ordination of skills to stimulate economic growth. The focus is on sustainable job creation and on skills transfer, on black economic empowerment and on infrastructure provision.

Construction of toll roads plays an important part in road development and maintenance, but alternative roads must also be constructed for the poor who cannot afford toll road fees. Bus transport, mostly in rural and urban areas, is used for access to workplaces. Selective access to subsidies denied people access to public transport. The poor and the needy were the most affected by targeted subsidies.

More than 69% of our passengers are transported by minibus taxis, mostly in urban and rural areas. The industry was previously not regulated; resulting in disputes and violence due to illegal operations and the use of unroadworthy vehicles, which led to road accidents. The industry, through Santago, and the Department of Transport strived to regulate and stabilise the industry. A memorandum of understanding was signed for the replacement of the unroadworthy fleet and the absorption of the taxis into the formal economy through a taxi recapitalisation programme. This, as the Minister has indicated, must be treated with urgency.

We, as the ANC, commend the Minister for undertaking to ensure that the RTMC is to start functioning as soon as possible. Pedestrians are causing 40% of fatalities on our roads. The department is aiming at reducing the number of fatalities through an awareness campaign by encouraging compliance with traffic laws and by encouraging and forging a harmonious working relationship between traffic authorities in all spheres of government.

Rail transport also plays an important role in the transport industry by transporting goods and passengers. Like road safety, rail safety is a priority for all concerned, mostly in urban areas. The safety and security strategy for the rail commuter system was developed by the stakeholders for improved co-ordination between rail security and the SAPS for intervention. Alarms and helicopter surveillance were introduced by the department and the SA Rail Commuter Corporation and Metro Rail. We would like to commend the department for the reintroduction of the railway police. We hope that this will ensure that commuters are safe, and that the department and the provinces will not be taken to court by commuters who were victimised on the trains.

As the ANC, we support your Budget Vote. I thank you.

Mr S KWELITA (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, members of the House and ladies and gentlemen, let me express my sincere gratitude for this opportunity provided to me to participate in this debate. Having listened to previous speakers, I have decided to focus on three areas. The first area is that of job creation and unemployment. I have decided to focus on this area because I believe that we have sufficient facts that should assist us in making a decision. The first set of facts we have been provided with by Census 2001, which provided the following facts, especially about the Eastern Cape: The Eastern Cape has the highest rate of unemployment in the country, currently standing at 54,6%. The second set of facts was that 42,6% of the population, which is about 1,3 million, between the age of 20 and above, have no schooling or have received only primary education.

The third one is that, although the population is growing at a rate of 10%, the household is growing at a rate of 20%. It is these facts that made us reflect again on the second set of facts, which is: the economic growth of the province over the last years has been at what one could call a considerable rate. Again if one looks at employment figures as provided in the Budget Review and if one looks at the economic growth of the country, one finds that there are positive figures in all those areas. But these positive figures have not responded positively to the issue of unemployment. It is on the basis of these that we feel that the Community- Based Public Works Programme, especially the Expanded Public Works Programme, presents a proper strategy for Government intervention.

We believe this because, regarding the communities that are involved and affected in our province, we have made the following observations through research that has been conducted by an institution in KwaZulu-Natal: Firstly, through the programme they have managed to engage in other economic activities, because they have savings and through those savings they engage in other economic activities. Secondly, the KwaZulu-Natal example, which indicates an integrated approach, has also shown us that you can use the Community-Based Public Works Programme to engage other departments and create jobs that can be sustained.

It is through this analysis that we believe that the programme needs to be supported by all of us because it will give us the results that we want, in order to deal with unemployment and poverty alleviation. The second area I would like to move to quickly is with regard to emerging contractor support. It is our belief that the programme of training that has been undertaken at national and provincial levels, indicates that you can reap a lot of benefit in ensuring that these emerging contractors don’t only remain emerging contractors, but that they move to higher levels. As part of this process, the province has engaged IDC, and there is a joint venture where there is an amount of R20 million which could also assist these emerging contractors financially.

The third important aspect in relation to emerging contractors, which we believe we have undertaken a study of as a province, looks at the contribution which we have made in this sector in the past 10 years, how we have learnt from that contribution about the positive areas that need further reinforcement, and how we can learn from that experience about areas where we need to do things better. We believe that through that exercise we will be able to present, before the end of this financial year, a detailed programme that could indicate to us clearly how we can intervene in the emerging contractor support programme.

The last area that I would like to touch on, which has been touched on here as well, is around providing accommodation for user departments. We have learnt in our province that we have a budget of about R1,2 billion which we are implementing on behalf of the sister department, but our capacity to implement that programme is greatly challenged. As a result, the user department has been forced on a number of occasions to rely on other service providers. It is on the basis of that understanding that we believe that in this financial year, one of the areas on which we need to concentrate will be where we are increasing our own capacity as the department so as to service those user departments better.

Related to that as well is that, in the area of accommodation, we have also undertaken a study, the results of which we hope to be tabling to the provincial cabinet by the end of July. Currently that study has indicated to us the space requirements, because in the past most of the departments have been operating in conditions which were not suitable to them to deliver properly on their mandates. But we believe that we also need to do a second part of that study, which is to cost that study. It is on the basis of that that we believe that by the end of July we will be able to present that comprehensive study that indicates to us the areas of intervention and how we can intervene also in that particular area.

In conclusion, Chairperson and hon members, we want to confirm as a province that the speeches presented here by the three Ministers have indeed confirmed that we are a nation at work, and therefore let us roll up our sleeves, and contribute to the task at hand. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr M L FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Madam Chairperson, Ministers and all protocol observers, it is with great honour that I take part in this debate, just over a week after hosting the national Minister, Comrade Sisulu, and her provincial counterparts in Somerset West, at our first MinMec briefing since the new Cabinet announcement. To the members, the Western Cape and most probably the nation, one can say that I have listened very attentively to our national Minister; I have looked at the way she is focused, at the detail, and the deliberateness of what she is doing. Hence one can say that the housing portfolio is in good hands in this country.

This budget debate, along with others, takes into cognisance many of the issues that the people in various corners of the country have communicated as their wishes. Some have done so verbally during door-to-door visits ahead of the general elections that was won by an overwhelming majority to the organisation, the people’s movement. I represent the province whose people, at last, mandated the ANC to take charge and filter the benefits enjoyed by the rest of the provinces whose policies were guided by progressive minds. Here one can be reminded of what someone once said, and that is that change is a process but that change is inevitable. We promised our leaders the Western Cape, and it was delivered. What lies ahead for the Western Cape government therefore talks to the challenge to deliver and those challenges were set out yesterday in the Housing address.

Ten years on, as a country, we have notched up several milestones. Amongst those are that, for just over seven years of persistent fighting against homelessness, we have managed to build over 1,6 million houses. Yes, Minister, indeed that translated into at least 7 million people having security of tenure, and other secondary spin-offs. Therefore I want to say to the hon member from the ID, that it’s not necessary if you, in fact, go to the people who received those houses. They, in fact, now have home security. Is not a question of building matchbox houses.

We can say that overall the housing programme over the last 10 years was a good programme. There would have been areas of quantity, but the majority was very good quality housing delivery. Otherwise we are saying that we have failed our people, and we definitely did not fail our people, because South Africa has been internationally recognised as a leader in home delivery. [Interjections.] The national housing budget of R4,8 billion for this financial year presents us with the opportunity to optimally deduce benefits informed by a multipronged strategy aimed at addressing housing, and putting it in the centre of socioeconomic upliftment.

Among issues to be further explored is a purposeful attempt to have large- scale housing construction projects serving as the turnkey in those areas where employment opportunities are nonexistent. In many small areas, housing budgets therefore become the turnkey for socioeconomic imperatives. Success in getting this right rests on our ability as a government to synchronise our budgeting, planning, fighting corruption, reviewing policies and ensuring spending of allocated funds.

There will also be a deliberate attempt to have the marginalised sections of our society playing a leading role in this process. The women in construction, the youth, the religious sector, women in general, the rural poor, the unemployed graduates, to count but a few, are among those sectors that require our active involvement. Comrade Minister, we agree with your six-pillar approach that talks to building homes. It is also quite clear that it talks to repositioning of housing in the country.

Amongst the few critical interventions that the Western Cape has identified, and will have to deal with are: the underspending issue, the fast-tracking strategy, the identification of bottlenecks, and analysing the forensic audit that was done in the Western Cape around the housing portfolio. For that I have instructed my own department in the province that, over the next year, we will go into a special period to ensure that we address the backlogs. We also have in the province a portfolio that talks to at least 320 000 household units as a backlog.

We talk about the migration pattern in the province, as well as those from other provinces, from the rural poor of at least an annual growth of 1%, and then it becomes a strategic approach to manage it. What the President and the Minister have put on the table is therefore an opportunity for us to make an input. In the current MTEF cycle, the amount spent on housing has already been indicated as being approximately R14 billion. Such consistency will assist in planning and putting in place the right systems and human resources.

However, given the challenges posed to us by you, I have no doubt that the outer year of this MTEF cycle will see significant need for real increase in budget. We have also identified questions at the municipal level, and I have put in place a skills audit analysis to give support to those municipal areas. Minister, you have challenged us to eliminate informal houses in the next six years. A challenge I would like to make a commitment to is that it will receive our best efforts. In the Western Cape we have approximately 170 informal settlements and therefore appropriate measures are to be put in place. On 22 June an intergovernmental meeting between the provincial, local and national levels will take place to, in fact, look at the first challenge that you have set for this province, that of the informal settlements along the N2. The kind of society we have is based on profound respect for human rights. In the Western Cape, where admittedly the challenge of building the nation united in diversity is still big, we have set ourselves the task of making sure that the next five years will see the province evolving into a truly harmonious nonracial society, indeed a home for all.

It is in this regard that one of the motivating benefits of an accelerated housing delivery process is that we shall soon do away with the relics of separate development that sought to keep races apart. We will make sure that the poor are no longer only relegated to the periphery of our urban settlements, but that they are integrated and accommodated over the buffer strips that ensured that they remained on the Cape Flats and low-lying unsuitable marshes. We will not tolerate a situation where huge disparities continue to exist between the rural poor and the metro, between our farm owner and farmworker and between the different spheres in the metro.

On behalf of the Western Cape and the housing beneficiaries, I move for the adoption of the Vote in its present form, for it has all the hallmarks of the contract which we undertook to enter into with our people. The Western Cape therefore accepts the Budget. We must all be prepared to roll up our sleeves and lend a hand in housing the nation. A great deal of work awaits us. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, thank you very much. Before I call upon the Ministers to respond, I just want to indicate to the hon Ministers the reason we decided, as a Council, to bring together the three departments. Housing is a need for our people, and without roads, housing is useless, and without infrastructure such as clinics, schools and community centres, it does not help our society. We want to build a society that is respected by all, by providing all you can as these three departments. Hence we have invited the three of you today, to come and make a presentation to this House. May I then call upon the Minister of Transport to give us his response.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Chair, I thank everybody who has participated in this important debate. I take your point, Chairperson. We are already working in clusters at a national level. So, I will be working very closely with my colleagues to support the Minister of Public Works to push this Public Works Programme. As you have said, when they build houses, we need to put an appropriate road system in place.

I will not be long. I will just address some of the key issues that have been raised. I note the positive comments that the acting Chair of the Select Committee on Public Works, hon Tau, has made on the Road Traffic Management Corporation. I want to emphasise that we have no intention in transport of developing a proliferation of agencies that deal with similar or related matters. The RTMC, therefore, will be responsible for a wide range of road matters, so that we can know where the buck really stops.

On safety, we endorse the view that road and rail safety remain critical challenges for all South African people. We need to emphasise, however, that road users are ultimately responsible for safety on our roads through compliance with various regulations and traffic rules, as well as through respect for other road users.

Our Government will continue to be responsible for safety-related infrastructure issues, such as road signage, design and law enforcement. Road safety, therefore, goes beyond the Arrive Alive campaign. It involves investment in, and continued maintenance of infrastructure, as well as effective strategies to ensure the roadworthiness of all vehicles, particularly trucks, lorries, taxis and buses.

It is our very strong view that more efforts need to be put in place on mobile enforcement measures, such as weight bridges, roadside courts and proper certification of vehicles prior to their getting on to our roads.

I will be raising with my colleague the Minister of Justice the possibility of improving the knowledge of road safety regulations amongst the various prosecuting authorities to encourage them to take stronger action against repeat offenders. We also need to identify who the real culprits are as, for example, regarding the overloading of trucks, drivers are always held responsible. What about the owners and companies behind these drivers? [Applause.]

On the issue of Youth Month, I would like to endorse what the departed MEC for public works and transport said on June being Youth Month. We believe that, as a Government, we are going to continue our strategies of delivery that should take on board youth empowerment and youth development. A more stringent application of targeted employment towards youth as a distinct category must be pursued, without losing sight of women and the disabled.

I must inform the hon delegates that the Department of Transport and all its agencies are already implementing the DGS agreements with regard to learnerships and training. The department is currently transferring R6,3 million to various tertiary institutions for the promotion of transport- related courses and qualifications, and this amount will increase to R7,1 million in the 2006-07 financial year. Another example is the Road Agency Fund’s training through contractual obligations, where R41,3 million has been spent on training since 2000 and, in this way, currently we are spending a further R9,8 million on the same programme. These are some of the measures to demonstrate our firm commitment, as Government, to youth empowerment and development.

On the issue of the comments by MEC Mhlahlo on the so-called low-density and marginal railway lines, I want to indicate that railway lines, especially in the rural areas, are often classified as low-density and marginal lines. From a commercial perspective, many of these lines would be classified as unprofitable, but from a developmental perspective, these lines are probably the life-blood of all those rural communities through which these lines go.

The ANC Government is, therefore, responsible for balancing all these perspectives. On the one hand, Spoornet might be overburdened, whilst communities are not denied the access to sustainable livelihood to which the rail network could provide vital access. Some cargo is better transported by rail rather than by road, for example, petroleum, fuel, liquids and timber, amongst others. It is with this balancing act in mind that our Government is firmly committed to revitalising rural rail and, in some instances, to building new ones where these are required.

Public-private partnerships operating within clear regulatory frameworks could be part of the solution. The separation of infrastructure from operations to allow greater access by multiple operators is being considered.

On the issue of labour-intensive technologies, the DA, as usual, has adapted a very crude and simplistic position on the use of labour-intensive methods. Certainly, we are not advocating a revision to apartheid’s rural road construction methods where the white foreman, with a tobacco pipe in his mouth, sat dozing on the truck, while the black labourers did the hard work. [Applause.] This is about community empowerment where our people themselves take these things into their own hands.

I must also say that the debate that the DA is trying to introduce, of the so-called two-tier labour market, was closed a long time ago. The Labour Market Commission had clearly considered this subject and concluded that the South African labour market is not inflexible.

Internationally, the application of specific technology to facilitate employment without unacceptable premiums and delays in delivery is widely acknowledged, particularly by the ILO, as MEC Mcebisi has highlighted. Let me give one more example of these methods in action, the construction of the Amadiba road in Pondoland where the only source of gravel for the road surface in the area could only be quarried by hand, because of the shallowness of the scene of the gravel. If mechanical means were utilised, there would have been much greater environmental damage to the topsoil, with erosion arising as a result. So, there are scientific reasons why we can use labour instead of machines. Therefore, the choice of this appropriate technology is very important to the successful implementation of the labour-intensive approach, despite what some of the DA dinosaurs would claim. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

On a lighter note, hon members, arising from the comment by the Minister of Housing about the population in the Northern Cape, as the Minister of Transport, I am willing to transport whoever she wants to bring to sort out this problem. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Deputy Chair, I really don’t know why the Minister wants to use me to say the things that he actually wants to say. He’s been dying to say this; he’s been sending me notes about the very same thing. Now I am to put it across and made to bear the brunt of it. But I’m quite willing to take on the challenge that the Minister has given us. He should arrange for the building of roads to where houses are needed so that we can have homes there. And I’m very glad that you constructed this debate in such a way that we actually benefit from the input from both Ministries because, as I indicated in my speech, part of the problem is that we end up using the subsidy to provide the infrastructure that these two Ministers should be providing. I wish we had a memorandum of understanding that we could sign, to make sure that he is not transporting males to the Northern Cape, but building roads to where we need them most.

I want to thank all members who have contributed positively to this debate. Most of this is incorporated into the speeches that have been put forward by the acting Chairperson, the MECs and various chairpersons from the provinces. Most of them have said everything that I wanted to say - even more articulately.

I want to thank the hon Smith from the Northern Cape. Thank you very much for your encouragement, and it’s very good to hear a voice from the past. The community of Mier that he was referring to is a community for which we built emergency houses in the floods of 2000. There are some people out there who still remember that. We will be back to Mier to make sure that we can continue with the good work. We are aware of the backlogs that we have. Madam Chair, you will excuse me; in the two hours that I have been sitting here, my cold has come back.

We are aware of the backlog and delays, and we are attending to this matter. The MECs and I have had the occasion to meet, and I was very heartened to find that the MECs are aware of the backlogs. They are aware of the reasons why we have backlogs and they have already worked out strategies to ensure that these are overcome.

I wanted to respond to the special delegate from Gauteng. He’s so full of enthusiasm and I was very glad to hear about the Gauteng province’s determination that it has put into housing, and especially the support centres that they have in Diepsloot and Kanana. I am available to be part of this excitement, together with the excitement that is generated by the lady from Mpumalanga. She spoke such beautiful SiSwati at the beginning and then she diverted into lousy English. I had hoped to hear her ukuthi amatyotyombe ngeSiswati yini [tell me what ``amatyotyombe’’ is in Siswati] and all that. But anyway, she preferred English. And I wanted to say that I’m very available to share in the excitement. I don’t mind cutting ribbons. You can do the work and I’ll come and cut ribbons on your behalf.

I wanted to say, though, to the special delegate from Gauteng that perhaps what you should do is to have a special session with them on the R2 479 savings contributions. There is a reason why we have put this contribution in place and I have enumerated some of the reasons why we did so. But I think perhaps there must have been something wrong in the way that we packaged it. We are very willing to repackage it in such away that it is no longer misunderstood. There are various ways in which the people that he has referred to are exempted from this. These people are the indigent, the very elderly and the disabled. And somehow, if it has not come through to Gauteng, we are very willing to sit down and explain to them. Those who cannot afford the savings contribution of R2 479 can instead give sweat equity, we will accept that as a measure. But it’s a very important component of making sure that the stakeholders and beneficiaries buy into the product, and we are not willing to give it up. Instead, we will make sure that we can package it in such a way that all understands it.

The member Panday from KwaZulu-Natal, made a number of very important points that I want to deal with. The private sector is steadily getting out of the market. It is a pity, but we are dealing with the matter, and it is for this reason that we are seeking to empower the emerging BEE contractors. However, the Housing Consumer Protection Measures Act of 1998 established the National Home Builders Registration Council, whose mandate it is to deal with bad workmanship and structural defects in housing construction. Its warranty fund provides cover for roof leaks for over a period of one year, and for structural damage for over five years. The council further registers all home builders engaged in home building. It further blacklists and deregisters those responsible for bad workmanship to the extent that their certificates are withdrawn, and they cannot access bridging finance and loans. Without these certificates they are rendered basically ineffective, so the deregistration and blacklisting that the member was talking about has already been taken on board.

I completely agree with hon member Adams, he is actually a very articulate man. He says that a house should be a home where our values are inculcated as a society. I could not have put it better myself. All I can add is that a house should be a home where each person’s dignity is restored and protected.

Mzizi, baba, ngingathanda ukuthi mina nawe sihlale phansi sikhulume ukuze sedlulise lezi zinto eziphakathi kwethu ngoba ngiyabona ukuthi njalo uma sihlangene sobabili siyezwana kodwa uma sifika lapha ePhalamende bese siyehlukana ngezinto eziningi. [Uhleko.] [Mr Mzizi, I would like just the two of us to sit down and talk so that we can get beyond the things that come between us. From time to time if we meet one on one, we agree on things, but when we get here to Parliament we differ on many things. [Laughter.]]

He should be so lucky - not quite in that context. We actually come from the same area and I think that we are able to see things in a similar way. But some of the things that he pointed out about the situation, especially in the area that he comes from and with regard to the hostels there, I’m in complete agreement with. But I’m very glad that a member here actually instructed him to sit down so that he could have an earful from him. So, that bit has been done on my part.

The ID member, you can be sure that the housing department will be an institute of excellence, and I’m glad that you are thinking along the same lines that I am thinking. However, I wanted to say that it might not be important to members here to go and spend three days under the conditions that you described, because all members of the ANC are familiar with those conditions. That is precisely why we fought so hard to take all our people out of those conditions. [Applause.] Part of our extended families still live under those conditions. However, I wouldn’t mind making sure that you are monitored under those conditions, so that you can bring most of your constituency on board to see where we come from and why we don’t want to go back there.

Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for your time, I have allowed myself to be bribed by Minister Sigcau not to take longer than I should, and I have agreed. Thank you very much for this opportunity. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I must thank you for the explanation why we had to assemble here at such short notice. I was a bit grumpy because it made me miss my doctor’s appointment. But I will find time for that.

I must say that the overall response to the debate was a positive one, with a lot of important lessons and maybe in some cases with instructions coming from the various members. And I want to assure the hon members that if they have missed out some of the adverts we have had for the Expanded Public Works Programme, or were not aware of them, and although we have been to a number of provinces and municipalities, we will nevertheless make another round. We actually want to reach everyone. I have agreed that next week on Thursday I’ll even talk on the programme when we meet at some other point in time.

First of all, I want to explain two things. The whole issue of providing for people who are disabled is something that is occupying our minds as the Department of Public Works. It is occupying our mind to such an extent that when you talk of new buildings, we want people to give consideration to making sure that we are user-friendly, and that we put up buildings that are going to be user-friendly when used by the disabled. In the past we actually had a programme, in which we targeted some of the Government buildings to make sure that some of the entrances were really suitable to all people in South Africa.

I was amused when Lindiwe was talking about the cutting of ribbons because someone who was trying to be facetious said in the papers that I have been reduced to a Minister who cuts ribbons. And what the person missed was that you don’t cut a ribbon if you have not delivered on the infrastructure. So, I think some people always need to be corrected from time to time.

With regard to the construction industry, I want to make a clarion call to attract our youth back into the industry so that we can give them some of the stable jobs that exist in the construction industry. If you remember from history, any blue-collar type of work was always posed or entrenched in our minds as given to the other side and that it was only those kids who were not brilliant who had to go to some of those schools. But what we did not look at closely was the fact that on the other hand, the other racial group, which was ruling at the time, was actually attending the technical colleges. It is only with this Government that an emphasis now is being put on the attendance of some other institutions rather than the straightforward universities. It is there that a broad base of different types of skills is given to people.

The other issue I want to emphasise is that at times when we deliver speeches, we should listen to what we are saying and not simply stick to what we have prepared. And I’m referring now to the remarks that were made by the hon Terreblanche of the DA. She was actually alluding to the fact that the people we are going to be targeting in the Expanded Public Works Programme are only the black people. That was what she was alluding to, and she was saying that we should pay attention to other racial groups. But in my speech I specifically said the groups that we are targeting are the unemployed, the unskilled, people not receiving grants, the rural and urban poor, people with disabilities and the youth - for about 70% of the youth are unemployed in this country. That was straightforward. That was specific. And I think that we should listen more, rather than to stick to the text when we come here.

Something, which I did not refer to in the speech, which was not raised either, was that we are trying to encourage some of our people not to stick to pure construction, but also participate on the supply side. A lot of our people really suffered grievously, because they did not have the right equipment even if they got the contracts. And in a number of cases, our people went under because those who have the equipment were charging very high prices, even for just an ordinary wheelbarrow, let alone a Caterpillar machine. We are saying that if people could begin to form consortia to look at the supply of equipment, then maybe the problem itself will be solved.

We are also saying that although we are burdened with the question of fronting, we are finding answers for it. At one time it was the scourge of the industry. I also want to remind members, especially an hon member who was talking about a special empowerment for women. If there is one thing we have done as women Ministers, it is to make sure that we empower women. And fortunately, even our colleagues in the other Ministries are doing the same, because there is a lot of gender sensitivity right through Government. We have heard of women in mining. We have heard of women in agriculture, and we talk abundantly about women in construction. And in my speech I actually referred even to the jobs that we have given to women. So we believe that unless all South Africans work together to improve our country, there will always be gaps in our development.

Finally, I want to come to what was raised by one hon member, about issues to do with HIV/Aids. Maybe we did not refer to this and the member might not be aware of our policy. We have an HIV/Aids policy, which deals with the training of workers on site, as well an awareness campaign.

Andithi niyazi nani emakhaya kungafika abantu abakhayo, ningekazi nto ncam, niya kubona abantu abaphekayo apho, ukuze kuthi iinyanga ezilithoba ezilandelayo nibe senibona amalweyile phandle. [Uwelewele.] Kwasekuqaleni ke sabona ukuba kufanelekile sibaxelele ukuba kufanele babe nezi nkqubo zokwazisa abantu nge-HIV/Aids ngoba asifuni kwenzeke izinto ezininzi esingazidingiyo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[At construction sites, before anybody knows exactly what is happening, there would be people cooking and nine months later napkins would be hanging on washing lines outside. [Interjections.] We saw from the first instance that it is important that we introduce the HIV/Aids policy because we do not want foolish activities that would yield unwanted results.]

I also want to point out that the Expanded Public Works Programme is not introducing a two-tier labour market. It is actually involving a combination of work experience and training. And if that is the case, the unemployed people are thus equipped to find longer-term opportunities in the economy. I actually liked one of the participants from the DA. He did give the Minister of Housing some suggestions as to what he thought could be done, unlike the usual situation of being told that you are doing this wrong. You are never told what the other side would do to correct the situation.

And I think that in future we would ask opposition parties to come with answers at times and not only with criticism all the time. This is our democratic South Africa, and we want to make sure that it moves to very high levels. Finally, I just want to educate those who choose not to know - and I don’t think anyone doesn’t know. At the Growth and Development Summit, we made a decision as all the participants of Nedlac, which include Government, business, labour and civil society. There is a tendency to say: ``This was a Government decision’’. It is true; most of the funding will come from Government, because it is going to come from various funds. But when it comes to the question as to what wages are we going to give people for the programme, that came as a decision of the collective, where the salary will be task-based. And I would implore hon members not to try and look for a labour-related issue where there is no need to find such an issue.

Join us, hon members. We will be going out there talking to people on what we call ``construction week’’, to tell them about a number of issues to do with the construction industry. We will inform this House on time so that when we get to a province, we will find all the MPs there and we will begin to talk to people as the people from Parliament, and not as the individual Minister, the individual MEC or the individual major. We shall only grow if we are united in effort. Criticise constructively or keep your silence forever. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 13:25. _____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       THURSDAY, 10 JUNE 2004

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises Strategic Plan of the Department of Public Enterprises for 2004-2007.

                     FRIDAY, 11 JUNE 2004
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 11 June 2004  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as  a  section  75
     Bill:


     (i)     Electoral Commission Amendment Bill [B 7 - 2004]  (National
          Assembly - sec 75)

TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

 Strategic Plan of the Public Service Commission for 2004-2007.

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration

 (a)    United Nations Convention against Corruption, tabled in terms of
     section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (b)    Explanatory Memorandum on the United Nations Convention  against
     Corruption.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

 (a)    First and  Final  Report  of  the  Commission  of  Inquiry  into
     Allegations of Spying  Against  the  National  Director  of  Public
     Prosecutions, Mr B T Ngcuka.


 (b)    Report of the South African Law Commission on Traditional Courts
     and the Judicial Function of Traditional Leaders [RP 209-2003].


 (c)    Report of the South African Law Commission on Islamic  Marriages
     and Related Matters [RP 210-2003].

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

Strategic Plan of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 2004-2007.