National Council of Provinces - 16 November 2004
TUESDAY, 16 NOVEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:02.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABILNGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES – see that book.
VIOLATION OF NCOP RULE 49
(Ruling)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP(Mr M J Mahlangu): Hon members, before we proceed to the questions on the Order Paper, I wish to make the following ruling.
In terms of the NCOP Rule 49, no member, while addressing the Council, may anticipate the discussion of a matter appearing on the Order Paper. Question No 3 on today’s Question Paper, which was asked by the hon Ms M P Themba, specifically refers to the campaign of Sixteen Days of Activism for no Violence Against Women and Children. The subject for discussion on today’s Order Paper is Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign - United against women and child abuse.
I have consulted on the matter and it is my opinion that the question is in violation of Rule 49. It is procedurally out of order and my ruling it that it be removed from the Question Paper.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms D ROBINSON: Thank you, hon Deputy Chair. I hereby give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day: That the Council-
(1) notes with concern that R88 000 of taxpayers’ money was used by the Coega Development Corporation for a team-building getaway at an Eastern Cape golf resort;
(2) regrets the negative publicity generated by this incident for the Coega development project, particularly in light of the fact that no anchor tenant has yet been secured for this project;
(3) expresses its extreme disquiet at the allegations of inappropriate behaviour by some staff members attending the function, particularly as these excesses took place at the taxpayer’s cost; and
(4) calls on the corporation’s bosses to focus their disciplinary efforts on those responsible for bringing the Coega Development Corporation into disrepute, rather than on the whistle-blower.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. This is a notice of motion in terms of Rule 74. I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the Council-
1) notes-
a) the failure of provincial delegations to consult all parties
when obtaining mandates prior to voting on a motion before
this House on 2 November 2004;
b) the refusal of the Chairperson to allow the DA to raise
procedural points of order, as provided for in terms of Rule
53, prior to voting on that motion; and
c) that the audio tapes of that sitting have not yet been
transcribed and cannot yet be accounted for; therefore
2) expresses serious concerns at-
a) the lack of proper democratic practice in this House;
b) the abuse of power by the ruling party to deny the DA an
opportunity to raise a point of order or vote on the motion
which amended a motion originally proposed by the DA in this
House; and
c) the fact that the recording of the sitting is unaccounted
for, thereby denying the DA an opportunity to study the
transcript and properly address this matter during this
year’s session; and
(3) calls on the Chairperson to ensure that the Rules of the House are applied properly and fairly in all circumstances, and that democratic norms are always respected.
Mr E M SOGONI: I am sorry, Deputy Chairperson, maybe I misunderstand the rules. I don’t understand the intention of this motion. Now that you have moved this motion, does it mean that it is approved or not? I don’t understand.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): This is just a notice of a motion. We are not putting a question on it. Can members please use their cards and their microphones when addressing the House? This is a complaint from the gallery. We now move to motions without notice.
WISHING MR MANYOSI A SPEEDY RECOVERY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thank you, Deputy Chair. I would like to move a motion without notice:
That the Council-
1) notes that-
a) Mr Manyosi, who is a member of this Council, was admitted to
hospital on 26 October 2004; and
b) a vacuum has been created by his absence in the Council;
2) wishes him to be back in one piece to continue the process of
revolutionising the policy-making process and oversight work of
this Council towards addressing the socio-economic problems in our
country; and
3) therefore wishes him a speedy recovery.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUPPORT FOR MR DARYL WORTH AND HIS FAMILY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A WATSON: Thank you, Chair. I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with regret that the absence today of the hon Daryl Worth of the DA is due to the fact that he had to rush back to Bloemfontein to assist his family after learning that his son was reportedly overwhelmed by smoke in a fire and that his lungs were badly affected;
(2) further notes that full details of the incident are unknown, other than that his son is in a critical condition in an intensive care unit and may suffer brain damage; and
(3) expresses its sincere support for Mr Worth and his family and prays for the speedy recovery of their loved one.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUSPENSION OF RULES TO CONSIDER BILL
(Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: I move without notice, as follows:
That the Council, for the purposes of considering the Second Revenue
Laws Amendment Bill [B 25 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75)
suspends Joint Rules 154 and 159.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): There is no speaker’s list. I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their votes. I take it you are all in. Are all delegation heads present? In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish. Is there any province that wishes to do so? None. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order, per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against, or abstain. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: IMpuma Koloni iyaxhasa. (Eastern Cape supports.)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State?
Mrs S E MABE: Free State agrees.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Gauteng agrees, Chairperson.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re a thega. [Limpopo supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Northern Cape agrees.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona. (North West supports.)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: Western Cape agrees.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All nine provinces have voted in favour of the motion, I therefore declare the motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SIXTEEN DAYS OF ACTIVISM CAMPAIGN: UNITE AGAINST WOMAN AND CHILD ABUSE
(Subject for Discussion)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, I think this is a really important discussion and the campaign itself reflects on the huge task we.
Every year the 16 Days of Activism campaign allows South Africans, from all walks of life, to work together to find solutions to a common and vexatious problem. During this time NGOs, the private sector, faith-based organisations, government, parastatals and other strategic role-players band together to encourage a greater awareness of, and to promote, a national, social resistance to woman and child abuse. It is, after all, a problem that transcends politics, religion, culture and all the other differences that define our very variegated society.
The Department of Correctional Services, as government’s lead department, has been tasked by the Presidency to co-ordinate the national campaign. This implies the delivery of a campaign with an increasingly broader reach than in all the preceding years. The success of our previous campaigns has been attributed to the formation of strategic partnerships between government, civil society, business and a variety of other valued sectoral partners, all united by a common cause: to eradicate the abuse of women and children. And this year, as more of our friends in other sectors involve themselves in the campaign, its impact and reach will broaden and expand.
Over the past three months the Office of the Status of Women, the Office on the Rights of the Child and the Office on the Status of Disabled Persons – all units within the Presidency – have been working with the DCS, the GCIS and other sectoral partners to develop a national calendar of events that we hope will resonate throughout an ever broader SA community across the urban-rural divide.
Such a wide range of activities has been organised by role-players that one simply cannot be excused from finding at least one way of participating in this process. This year’s calendar of events reflects the diversity of the audiences to which we must speak; this ranges from workshops at community centres at various venues to an imbizo with traditional leaders hosted by the Limpopo province.
So too, we have tried to use technology to bridge the digital divide by engaging urban and rural women across the SADC region in our Cyber Dialogues project. Gender Links, supported by the GCIS, my department and other strategic partners in the private sector will run daily chat-room sessions with communication nodes across the SADC region.
This is an ambitious project and already facilitators have been trained to engage their respective communities and to formulate the inputs that will be made to a panel of experts on a daily basis for the duration of the 16 days. Here, the Johannesburg Metro, under the stewardship of executive mayor Comrade Amos Masondo, has provided enthusiastic support for this project. In addition to other regional facilitators, Gender Links has also trained councillors for this purpose. These councillors will engage and bring into the Cyber Dialogues their ward-based inputs, with each one of them contributing to the richness and depth of the discussion.
I would like to remind the chairs of committees that they’ve been invited to participate in this process, and we haven’t had much response. Please don’t feel intimidated by having to use a keyboard. If you don’t have keyboard skills, we will have trained input facilitators. There you are, all very smart. And that is what we have done in rural communities. The conversations will be facilitated by someone with keyboard skills to input the rural dialogue into this conversation.
The question is often asked: What can I do to support the programme? It is for this reason that we always try to provide an interactive element in our campaign, in which government’s programme is used to raise funds for NGOs working with victims and survivors of violence. Our Postcard Pledge campaign provides an opportunity for the general public to make a difference, just by signing the No Violence pledge – you each received one today.
The SA Post Office, or SAPO, has produced and will make 800 000 pledge postcards available in 500 post offices around the country from 17 November, which is tomorrow. Members of the public can sign these pledges and place the postcards in the specially designated boxes provided for this purpose at the participating post offices. To sweeten the deal, Transnet has sponsored R1 per signature for the first 250 000 signatures collected and Eskom has given us another R30 000, and we’ve just found another donor for another R20 000, so that adds R50 000 to R250 000. This money will be distributed via the Foundation for Human Rights to NGOs working with victims and survivors of violence.
SAPO will transport the signed pledge cards from around the country to the Johannesburg City Metro, where they will be pasted onto a huge wall of solidarity at the Cyber Dialogues venue located at the Johannesburg Civic Centre. The daily growth of this wall will be monitored by the press as the anticipated commitment to the pledge develops and participation by the public swells.
As members of Parliament, you can arrange pledge ceremonies with your local post office in your community when you return home for your constituency work. By encouraging your local community to support the process, you will be supporting the many NGOs and CBOs that provide invaluable caring and support to the many victims and survivors of domestic violence and abuse who turn to our courts and to our police officers for remedy.
To mark the advent of the campaign, President Thabo Mbeki has graciously agreed to deliver the keynote address at our launch ceremony in Port Elizabeth on 25 November. Here, I must thank the Premier of the Eastern Cape, who has put the considerable capacity of her office at the disposal of the operational committee that is organising the event - she is personally going door to door with 20 000 postcards. [Applause.]
Both this event and the closing ceremony planned for Mitchells Plain on 10 December in Cape Town have been characterised by co-operation and interaction between the three spheres of government. I would like to particularly thank the executive mayors of Cape Town and Port Elizabeth for their unreserved co-operation and support.
In our effort to popularise the message of no violence we have identified men and boys as singularly important partners in the campaign. It is both unhelpful and – might I add – inaccurate to cast men as the constant perpetrators and perpetual enemies of women and children; it also alienates those many good men who are committed to peace and nonviolence. This campaign will make every effort to convince men and boys of the essential, positive role that they have to play in putting an end to this scourge.
The formation of NGOs and professional organisations dedicated to ensuring that men and boys become proactive partners in the elimination of gender- based violence is a welcome and growing trend. The challenge for us as South Africans is to take this campaign beyond its 16 days and to make ours a national effort to combat violence for 365 days of each year, and a good place to start is in our own homes.
In this, the International Year of the Family, we should all convey the message through our own behaviour that peace begins in the home. During these coming 16 days of activism we should take stock of our individual commitments to ending domestic violence in terms of the way that we raise our sons and daughters, and the way in which we relate to one another in our homes.
It is at home that children learn the values of respect and dignity. And surely our children learn and develop ideas from observing us, their parents, about the way in which our society views and treats its women and children. We must, as parents and grandparents, engage our children in discussions about relationships and sensitise them to the learned behaviours that they have to jettison if they want to be free.
To commemorate the Year of the Family, the Department of Housing will be building 16 houses for 16 women in 16 days, using the sweat equity of prison inmates who are committed to giving back to the communities from which they come. Each province will receive two houses with the exception of the Western Cape and Gauteng, who will each receive one. Single-women- headed households will be identified as beneficiaries for these houses by the Department of Housing. This unique partnership has received the full endorsement of a banking concern that wishes to sponsor the programme on an ongoing basis next year.
Another constituency that has been drawn into our campaign is that of mineworkers. In a unique partnership between the Department of Minerals and Energy, the National Union of Mineworkers and the Chamber of Mines, an event is being arranged in Rustenburg to draw that constituency into engaging with the issues of domestic and sexual violence.
It is important that this campaign be driven on the basis of partnership and collaboration. Together, we must expose more people to the vicious and debilitating nature of violence, not only as it impacts on women and children, but on whole societies. Our efforts each year must convince more people to take a stand and become proactive agents of change; partners in the elimination of all forms of gender-based and child-directed violence.
Apart from the obvious moral imperatives for supporting this campaign, we must understand that this is a development issue. The existence, or even the threat, of high levels of violence in any society has a direct and negative impact on that society’s ability to develop and grow. The prevalence of gender-based and child-directed violence is one of the most pernicious forms of discrimination, because it impacts directly and negatively on the ability of women and children to realise the universal human right to development.
To acknowledge the intersection between the vulnerability to violence and disability the Department of Sport and Recreation, the Durban City Metro and the KZN province have collaborated to produce a series of events that will demonstrate the achievements of disabled sportswomen and sportsmen in the fields of physical endeavour. Following, as it will, on the Presidency’s national event in Limpopo on the International Day for People Living with Disability, these events clearly demonstrate our government’s commitment to mainstreaming the rights of the disabled onto the national agenda. So too, the Department of Health’s national event in Cape Town on 1 December will focus on the heightened risk of people living with and affected by HIV and Aids to violence and discrimination.
Our closing ceremony will take place in Mitchells Plain on 10 December. The Deputy President, along with Premier Rasool, and several Cabinet members will bring this year’s campaign to a close. The MEC for Safety and Liaison in the Western Cape, Mr Leonard Ramatlakane, has rallied the provincial role-players in a concerted effort to ensure the delivery of an event that embraces the whole community. The event will remind us that women’s rights are human rights and that our society will never be truly free until we have achieved the full emancipation of women and institutionalised their equal participation in all aspects of life, at home, in the community and in the workplace.
In the packages that you’ve received today you will find a pledge postcard and a white ribbon, the international symbol of solidarity for no violence against women. Please wear your ribbon for the full duration of the campaign; by wearing it you will be saying, “I care”, by wearing it you will be saying, “This ribbon symbolises my commitment”, and it will challenge others to join this important campaign. I thank the members. [Applause.]
Mrs S E MABE: Chair of Chairs, Deputy Minister, permanent delegates and special delegates, as we join the entire nation in observing 16 days of activism, we do so clearly with our minds seeking to reflect what we as South Africans achieved since the inception of this campaign. I hope that I will correctly put it so that we all reflect on how our communities, our friends, our colleagues and our children respond to this national challenge. To me, it is not just a challenge facing a certain group of people, but a challenge that knows no colour, no political affiliation, no specific religion and no specific department. It is a monster that faces all of us as human beings.
Allow me to reflect on the following strengths and yet reflect on the weaknesses we need to overcome in order for us to stand together once more and pat each other on the back shouting at the top of our voices: We did it, we defeated the monster in the name of the fight against abuse of women, children and the most vulnerable groups of our society, not forgetting our people with disabilities.
I will first reflect on the Constitution of our country, which clearly highlights in its Bill of Rights the protection of the rights of its citizens without prejudice. Every South African has rights and one of those rights is the right to safety and security.
Now, let’s look, as communities, as young people, as leaders, as colleagues, as different departments, as citizens of this democratic country and as societies with morals at where our weaknesses are regarding the strengths given to us by our Constitution. Some sections of our communities are not yet united behind our cause to defeat this monster of abuse. Instead, we still point fingers as leaders on how we expect our communities to behave.
However, there is a positive side, that is, the level of breaking the silence has improved thanks to government initiatives at national, provincial and local levels. That is why today we are able to quote the number of women, children, the elderly and people with disabilities who have been abused. Regarding this improvement, we as the government call on our fellow South Africans to stand united and see to it that the perpetrators of these deeds are taken through the processes of the justice system and dealt with accordingly.
The ANC, in its Freedom Charter adopted in 1995, made a commitment to ensure peace, security and comfort. This has now been strengthened by the contract we signed with the majority of our people when we saw it befitting that the people together with the government should lead this country to being the one where my child is your child, my mother is your mother and my property is your property. We are striving to do this in the spirit of ubuntu. This was the mandate of the majority of the people of South Africa, when they overwhelmingly voted for their leaders to represent them in the people’s Parliament.
Government has put policies in place and most of them are at implementation stage. All we need as South Africans is to join hands and save our people by assisting them to understand the application of these policies. But, surely, we have paved a way leading to a better life for all.
The fight against poverty is integral to the defeat of the scourge of abuse against women and children. In most reported instances, it is women and children from the poorest of the poor families who become victims of violence in one form or another, because of lack of access to social services, lack of education and skills and general backwardness that has destroyed the self-esteem of our women.
Let’s look at what our government has done to curb some of these insecurities. These are the steps that the government has taken: the child support grant to ensure that every child is fed, irrespective of whether the family is poor or not; tightening of the Maintenance Act; introduction of indigent policies by our government through municipalities to exempt the poor from the burden of paying rates and taxes; skills development programmes targeting women - even women from rural areas are now able to benefit from government initiatives.
The House has witnessed the progress on farms, which are run by women in KwaZulu-Natal. And, this is done in the spirit of alleviating the dependence of women on violent partners because some of them resort to being in violent relationships as a result of their economic situation. This has removed what was once a cloud of insecurities among rural women and replaced it with powerful assertive women in our country who are now beginning to be economically sound. And, surely, this is not the case with KZN only, other provinces are also making a difference in ensuring that our women’s lives are improved.
Children, more than any other segment of society, are most at risk regarding issues of violence and abuse. The ANC-led government has done much since 1994 to improve the situation of children and to protect them against abuse. However, there is much that still needs to be done and all sectors of society need to be involved.
South Africa’s Constitution, in particular, provides provisions especially for protecting the rights of children. It says that every child has the right to family care. Where this is not possible, appropriate alternative care can be given to such children. Every child has the right to basic nutrition, shelter, health care and social services. They may not be maltreated or neglected, abused or degraded. Since the ANC came to power in 1994, it has put in place laws and programmes to translate these rights in reality. One of the major achievements was the introduction of the child support grant to improve the lives of children living in poverty.
The number of children receiving this grant has increased dramatically this year to 2,7 million. However, there are still a number of children who are eligible for these grants but are not yet registered. While on this topic, let me send a note of warning to those who abuse these grants and use them to buy alcohol or for their own personal needs instead of using them for the benefit of the children for whom they are intended. If they are caught, we will make sure that government punishes those who do that.
We are aware that many children are sexually abused by people whom they know and trust. It is difficult for children to do anything about this as they become afraid to report such matters. Today, such children can use services such as Childline’s 0800 055 555 toll-free number, and they are listened to and correctly dealt with. Alternatively, they could ask someone they trust to help them report a case.
Our government has also ensured that children’s courts are established in order to have a more friendly and relaxed environment for the children. This has led to an increase in the number of cases being reported but some people see this as an increase in the number of child rape and abuse cases. What this really means is that there has been a considerable increase in reporting. [Time expired.]
Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister Cheryl Gillwald and hon members, on 25 November 2004 the national Sixteen Days of Activism campaign for No Violence Against Women and Children will be launched. The twenty- fifth of November is also the International Day of No Violence Against Women.
If one looks at the documents sent out by the Deputy Minister of Correctional Services, Cheryl Gillwald, it is clear that a lot of hard work has been done to ensure that this campaign is successful and that the objectives are reached, as set out in the concept document. This is urgently needed in our country, because independent surveys continuously reveal that South Africa has the highest rate of rape and wife battering in the world. One in four women is beaten by her partner.
The Cape Times, Monday 15 November 2004, published the results of a survey called “Gender: The New Struggle” by the University of Cape Town’s Unilever Institute of Strategic Marketing. This survey was done in major cities and rural areas, and it found that at least one woman is raped every minute somewhere in South Africa. That also means, according to the survey, that about one-third of South African women will be raped in their lifetime.
It is great that we will have these 16 days of activism. I hope all the heads of departments have a clear understanding regarding this matter and that they have communicated to their staff that this is a year-round priority and not just for these 16 days. To quote Charlesworth and Chinkin from Women, Male Violence and the Law, 1994:
Gender based violence is neither random nor circumstantial. Rather, it is a structural problem directly connected to the universal imbalance in power between women and men.
The UCT study concludes that gender was likely to replace race as the big issue facing South African marketers in future. And, I trust that the President will tackle the issue of gender inequality and discrimination with the same dogged fashion with which he has tackled the likes of Charlene Smith and the issue of racism. I would like to quote Betty Friedan:
Am I saying women have to be liberated from men; that men are the
enemy? No. I am saying that men will only be truly liberated to love
women and to be fully themselves when women are liberated to have a
full say in the decisions of their lives and their society.
I thank you.
Mr K SINCLAIR: Hon Chairperson of Chairs and hon Deputy Minister, during the Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign, everyone is encouraged to take a stand against violence and abuse of women and children. The NNP, like in the past, supports this campaign, and we want to congratulate the Deputy Minister as convenor of this very noble initiative.
South Africa has just celebrated its tenth anniversary of democracy, and still our women and our children are being victimised. We must start asking questions about the use of a gender sensitive Constitution if women and children are still being raped and murdered. Government has expressed its concern in Child Protection Week, on Women’s Day, and will again do so during the Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign, but hon Chairperson, jointly we must move from the idea that it’s just a government initiative to the reality that it’s every citizen’s responsibility. We must stop blaming government for not doing enough. We should ask ourselves what we as individuals are doing.
We must also start at the very basis of our society, and that’s our family. We must teach our children that violence is not the answer. Indeed, charity begins at home, but more than that, peace also begins at home and through a stable family unit the cornerstones of a healthy society are vested.
But we must also start asking broader questions, and when I do this, I want to speak to the men. We must ask the question about what is happening in our country over the weekends and the festive season. And coming from a province where this is one of the biggest problems, we must start asking the broader question about the role that liquor and other related substances are playing.
Ons moet ons die vraag afvra hoekom dit gebeur dat in ’n provinsie soos die Noord-Kaap daar gemiddeld agt mense oor ’n naweek vermoor word, en hoekom meer as die helfte van daardie agt persone vroue is. Ons moet ons ook die vraag afvra: Wat gaan in mans se koppe aan as hulle die reg in eie hande neem en ’n baba van minder as ’n jaar verkrag? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[We must ask ourselves how it happens that, in a province such as the Northern Cape, on average eight people are murdered in the course of a weekend, and why more than half of this number are women. We must also ask ourselves what passes through the minds of men when they take the law into their own hands and rape a baby of less than a year of age.]
The answer to that question is that we must have a more holistic approach. It’s not just about saying that government must do something. Maybe, hon Minister, the time has arrived that government must also regulate the liquor environment in this country, and through that, inter alia, address this issue against women and children. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, Deputy Minister, colleagues, a woman is a homemaker. She is the pillar and foundation of a good home. She fills her home with warmth and wisdom and in this way sustains her family.
There is an expression in isiZulu, which an elderly person would say when he meets a young man. He would say: Usunomuzi? [Do you have a household?] The meaning is: Are you married? This emphasises the fact that young men need companionship. Let us take the wisdom from God. When He realised that Adam was lonely, He made him a partner to be his companion and a pillar of strength. Therefore, women are gifts from God in the same way that our children are special and precious gifts from the Almighty that brings blessings and happiness to a home.
The IFP hopes that the Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign will bring a change in the hearts of those men who believe that our womenfolk and those who are vulnerable are there to fulfil their sexual desires and that they can rape and beat them up for no apparent reason in order to find expression for their anger.
The Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign must send a strong message to these men who do not appreciate the priceless contribution made by our women to our nation. They must know that their behaviour is unacceptable and that our society rejects this kind of behaviour. This calls for a change in a societal attitude towards the victims of abuse. We must stop turning a blind eye when we see our children and mothers being abused by family members in our communities. We need to cultivate a culture of love and acceptance for victims of abuse in our society and root out the plague of violence and abuse from amongst us.
Yiqiniso ukuthi labo abenza lobu bubi empeleni akusiwo amadoda, ngoba mina ngiyindoda angizenzi lezi zinto ezingubunuku namanye amadoda afana nami awazenzi. Ngakho-ke ngithi kwabesimame nezingane zethu, sinithanda nonke. Niwubhaqa olungasewukucima ezinhliziyweni zethu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows).
[Those who carry out such abuse are not real men. I am a man, but I don’t do such wicked things as well as men like me. I therefore say to all women and our children, we love you all. You are a shining light that will not fade in our hearts.]
It is therefore critical that we all join hands and unite against women and child abuse now. We can all make a difference in our communities if we commit ourselves to exposing perpetrators and ensure that they pay the price for destroying the lives of our mothers and our children. This battle can only be won if we fight united.
Ngiyabonga, mama. [Thank you, Madam.]
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Hon Chair of Chairs, hon Deputy Minister and the hon House, the world is sick and tired of the abuse of women and children. The situation is so horrible that it cannot be left unchallenged or ignored. Various countries are grappling with this problem in their own peculiar way.
In Sweden, a group of parliamentarians have committed themselves to serious discussion regarding the prevalence of male sexual abuse and domestic violence against women and children, to the extent that they are even contemplating on levying a men’s tax in order to finance the counter measures they intend to put in place.
In our country the Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign headed by the women folk, is a means of raising awareness and mobilising all and sundry against all forms of abuse against women and children. Roughly speaking, it is a period extending from the last week of November to the first week of December. The intention is to expose the horror of all forms of abuse against women and children.
Very often these forms of abuse are perpetrated by some men who need to be converted and rehabilitated. Whilst all people are invited to take part in this fight against this monster, our participation as men as part of the solution would contribute significantly to resolving the problem. It is therefore incumbent upon us as men to join hands with our women folk, to say, enough is enough to the abusers of our women and children.
A vital question to ask oneself is: How will I present myself before the Lord if I could not participate in efforts to save my neighbour, who is perpetually abusing his poor wife and children? I thank you. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you, Chairperson. The Sixteen Days of Activism Campaign against gender violence and abuse is not a by the way thing. It is an international campaign aimed at raising awareness regarding violence against women and children. Therefore let us not leave for tomorrow what we can do today. Yes colleagues, let’s do it, because we can.
Hon members will agree with me when I say our society is sick and it needs help. Gone are the days when a woman, when seeing a man, saw a brother or a father. Gone are the days when women and children regarded a man as a role model. It was the norm in the past that when a girl saw a man, she would smile and say that whatever trouble comes to her now, she would be safe. It is up to us, colleagues, to change this situation. Yes, let us do it, because we can.
This debate is well timed, considering many incidences of women abuse in many parts of our country. It demands of us, as seasoned politicians, to rise above our party political affiliations, and confront these problems head on. Of course, let’s do it, because we can.
It is a shame to those political parties that use the vulnerability of our mothers and sisters for political point scoring, instead of coming up with solutions. They will just howl like Chihuahuas. They are so uncultured and are not even ashamed of undermining or showing disrespect to our President. They go to the extent of moving shocking and silly motions in this Council. The question is: Why are they stooping so low? Sober, loyal and patriotic South Africans, cannot do that. Please repent while you can. Colleagues, let’s do it, because we can.
Let us think of some of our officials in government offices who demand favours from our sisters or daughters, before they are employed. Let us think of what women have to go through before they are promoted to higher positions. Again let us imagine how our daughters are being abused when they apply for admission at tertiary institutions. We are told that sometimes their results are withheld, and they have to pay in kind, before the results can be released. In some cases passing those courses become conditional.
Let us think, again, of what our mothers and sisters are put through by their, so-called, husbands. They are made to understand situations that are not understandable. The unfortunate part is that many of our women are afraid to report these cases of abuse because they rely solely on these abusers for survival.
Think of those young girls who are abused by their stepfathers. They too, cannot report their abusers because the so-called fathers pay their school fees and even takes care of other needs. Hon members, we cannot sit back and let this barbaric thing go unchallenged. Please let us do it, because we can.
Open any newspaper today and you will see shocking pictures of young children with cigarette burns all over their bodies. Think of those irritating pictures of young children who are chained like dogs by their so- called parents. Some are left unattended for days without food. What about those men who, knowing their HIV/Aids status, go all out to rape and infect our sisters and mothers with this disease, just to satisfy their ego. What is wrong with our society? All these things are done by people who are created in the image of God, but their actions are ungodly, uncalled for, satanic, abhorrent, unethical, selfish and stupid.
Let me try, once more, to suggest the following and maybe this time I will get support. I would like to propose that the names of all those abusers be made public; that their names be displayed in all government and public buildings; that harsh sentences be imposed on them; that bail conditions be made difficult; that, after completing their sentences, they be forced to do community service for a given period; that they be excluded from any parole programme; that they should also be confined to their locality after serving their sentence; that their movements within their locality should be monitored and finally, that they should be put through a vigorous rehabilitation programme. I will need you support, hon members, so please, let us do it, because we can.
It was pleasing to know that in some provinces there are what we call trauma or victim empowerment centres. This we noticed when we visited Limpopo, for example. I want to call upon other provinces, where these centres are not yet established, to do the same. I know they can do it, because they can.
In trying to combat violence against women and children, the government amended the Criminal Procedure Act to give courts greater powers to refuse bail to these perpetrators. Legislation pertaining to minimum sentencing has been passed, providing, among other things, for a sentence of not less than life imprisonment in the case of rape.
The Domestic Violence Act, Act 16 of 1998, is one such weapon. Our government is party to a number of international conventions that relate to children, for example, the Convention on the Rights of Children. We also ratified the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Children. The Welfare Laws Amendment Act is one of them.
In conclusion, had I had enough time, I was going to list a number of some of the things that were done by the ANC government. We are challenged to do the right thing. Let us use all we have, including a broken sword, for our betterment. Nothing is too little to be put to good use. So please colleagues, let us do it, because we can. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Madam Chair, I wish you had suggested this the first round, because it is much easier to deal with one’s papers than it is waving them about when you are standing at the desk there.
Firstly, I would like to thank everybody for his or her input. This is an incredibly important campaign, and the hon Mabe in her speech made reference to Child Line. It is one of the efforts that we work with very closely. One of the businesses that we have associated with has contributed R20 000 for this period to Child Line, and so the ripple of our campaign goes broader and broader. The points you made were excellent.
I was somewhat saddened by the hon Terblanche’s input. Her need to carp at the President on an occasion like this, which I believe transcends politics, culture and race, diminishes the importance of what this campaign means, and the fact that we try to set no prescription for interaction as long as people join the process. They just need to be able to join, and there should be no hindrances. That saddened me.
I also think that we need to be very careful, in fact, exceedingly careful, with the way we use statistics. I have read the report and I do not recall a reference to one rape a minute. I think the important point about this is that one rape is too many, statistically. This country has an exceedingly serious problem, and it is not the result of the democratic government that took over in 1994. This problem has been a long way coming, because of patriarchy, domination and segregation. [Applause.] It has been a long way coming and we have to fix this.
Now, the important thing here is that we, who are very critical of our own events, should just bear in mind that in 1994 there were almost no protection orders issued. Why? Because it wasn’t a priority. We have some negative positives going here, and I want you to remember this. Because we have such incredibly progressive legislation our statistics, compared to that of other countries just based on the definition of rape, will obviously look bad. But that isn’t a reason to be relaxed. We have a serious problem.
But what is this party going to do with the information next year when rape becomes nongender specific, as required by the new legislation. The statistics will skyrocket, because we will then understand what the impact of rape is on our boy children. Once they start we are going to get comments like: Oh, look the rape has gone up.
Rape has not gone up. Reporting has gone up. Reporting has gone up, okay? [Interjections.] Thank heavens the reporting has gone up. We must also understand the magnitude of this problem. The magnitude of this problem needs the effort of every South African. It is too big, and it is an indictment on our democracy.
But paralysing statistics, those emotive things like “one every minute”, what does it mean? It lies out there. It makes us think that the problem is insurmountable. We need statistics to show us how we are managing this process. We need to use them in a way that transcends politics, in a way that will make us deal with this problem. We cannot respond to this problem in law only. We really cannot.
We have to respond as fellow human beings, and the important thing here is the contribution of men. I believe that if men start exerting peer pressure on one another it will became uncool for boys to even think about dominating behaviour. And men, when they feel the pressure from their peers about this being unacceptable: and you know, it is easily demonstrated, by the 19th hole at golf.
There was a member who mentioned liquor. Men sit around after sport events. They use lots of booze, and they tolerate the sniping about having to return to the wife. It sets a level of acceptance. If one of the people in that discussion is an abusive person, he feels absolute impunity from his peers to make a change in his behaviour, because people carry on ignoring it socially, particularly men. It is not a subject that they have ease discussing with one another. It is not something that we do very easily, but men, particularly, have tended to categorise this problem as a woman’s problem.
This new discovery of men moving into specific organisations, standing up and saying, I am a good man, I reject violence and I will act against it is what we need, and we need evidence of it. We will get evidence when every single person becomes involved.
The law and courts and the police are response mechanisms once the damage has been done. We really do need to improve the way we deal with this problem. I am the first to agree. This is a very big problem, but we need to deal with this in a way that actually makes a difference at our level, between us.
How do we raise our children? They learn those values of inequality, of the right to be superior and the right to do certain things from us. They learn those behaviours from us. We need, as fellow citizens, regardless of political persuasion, to take this problem home and fix it there.
Kgoshi Mokoena spoke to us so well about sentencing and bail, but let me just say that we do already have the strictest - and you want to measure our government’s commitment on this issue - responses to crimes of this nature, comparative to anywhere else. We do.
I am not trying to diminish the nature of this problem. It is huge, but we have to make it manageable in a way that we can talk to it, regarding both a response and preventative mechanism. That of course is the best way to deal with this.
What do we do when we hear people crying in the house next door? We very often ignore it, because this is something between a man and his wife. The law entitles a third party to report these problems. You have good tools! Use them! More than ever, women are turning to courts for remedy. Because if we judge a statistic that makes a difference, it is the number of protection orders issued. We have a very clear definition that women are turning to the courts and children are turning to the courts for remedy. Now that is a statistic that makes a difference!
It makes us feel terrible, because we read how many women are doing this. But you know, they do it because they have legislation that empowers them to do it. They did not do it before the recent legislation that we put in place. We should be proud, as parliamentarians, that we put such legislation in place, regardless of party. We did a good job here.
So, to score points here really dilutes the value of discussion we could have as individuals about making a difference. We can make a difference. I am convinced of it, but it does take constant vigilance. It does take constant vigilance, when you are tired at home and you hear your son coming home with some strange notions - cause boy do they get some strange notions at school no matter how hard you try - to say: No, son, that is not the way.
Solving problems by beating someone up is the ultimate sign of cowardice. It is brave men who choose the path of peace. That’s how we should raise our children. It is brave men who engage in dialogue, who deal with the problems and resolve differences through intellect. It is the cowards and the thugs who beat people up and hurt them. And the worst cowards are those who do this to children, who are physically smaller. There is no forgiving that act. There is no forgiving that act.
I have a 16-year-old son who is six foot three and has size 15 feet. It does not take rocket science to understand that if I do not teach him the values of respect and dignity, he is potentially a lethal weapon. If he takes a swipe at anybody under six feet he is going to hurt him or her. He is a big boy. He is built that way. He’s got to use his body as an instrument of peace and not of damage and pain. Those are the things we’ve got to teach our children, our sons and our daughters. We must. It is the only way.
The laws are instruments to make this happen, but they are response mechanisms. We are the people who make a difference in our communities. How is you church dealing with this issue? Is it talking to women appropriately, or is it sending strange messages? We need, perhaps, as one of our projects, and now I am plagiarising an idea that was given to me by the Premier of the Western Cape, to sit our religious communities down and say to them, interdenominational: What is the perfect sermon for this period of the year? What is it that we say to our people across the religious board? What do we as a community, as a religious community, as a faith-based community want?
I also think the traditional leaders are starting to deal with the problem. I was so impressed when we went to go and speak to the National House of Traditional Leaders. We got an invitation by Limpopo province to have this imbizo to engage with the problems. It is through engagement that this issue is dealt with, and we must speak to broader and broader constituencies.
You have a constituency. You golf players have a huge constituency. Go and influence those people by the way you behave, by the way you act and by the way you respect things. Do not tolerate those really crude jokes that just devalue female human beings. Don’t do it. Start there. Make a difference.
Our levels of reporting have gone up, and those statistics we find painful to deal with. But we must know that we must respond individually and collectively. We know we will see a decline in those statistics as the democratic values that underpin our Constitution become the values in the heart of every South African. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I hope that those who have ears have heard the call by this House. Thank you very much.
Debate concluded.
FINANCE BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance
thereon)
Mr D J BOTHA: Chair, the object of this Finance Bill currently before the House is to charge the National Revenue Fund with certain unauthorised expenditure. This gives effect to the resolution of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, widely known as Scopa.
An unauthorised expenditure of R43,9 million has been paid over to the National Revenue Fund. This amount will, in terms of the Finance Bill, be refunded to the relevant departments as a direct charge against the National Revenue Fund.
In addition, an unauthorised expenditure of roughly R7 million is a consequence of overspending of votes. These cases were considered by Scopa and after intense deliberations were recommended for authorisation. Once the Finance Bill becomes law, the amount overspent will be directly charged against the National Revenue Fund.
The Select Committee on Finance recommends that the NCOP adopts this Section 77 money Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
PETROLEUM PIPELINES LEVIES BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance
thereon)
Mr K SINCLAIR: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the South African pipeline network is of strategic national importance to our country. The vast majority of the network was state-owned through Petronet, a subsidiary of Transnet.
Given the fact that private operators had shown increasing interest in owning and operating pipelines, government had decided to allow this, but in a regulated environment. Parliament therefore passed the Petroleum Pipelines Act in 2003. The Act provided that tariffs would be levied on the transportation of liquid fuels via the pipeline network to, among others, fund the operations of the Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority.
The petroleum pipelines industry consists of petroleum pipelines and loading and storage facilities. In terms of Section 12(b) of the Petroleum Pipelines Act, the funds of the regulatory authority consists of, inter alia, levies imposed by, or under separate legislation.
The Petroleum Pipelines Levies Bill of 2004 seeks to achieve just that. The levies will be based on the amount of petroleum transmitted and are intended to pay for the costs incurred in the exercise of oversight over the petroleum pipelines industry by the Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority.
According to officials of the Department of Minerals and Energy, 11 cents of the cost of the inland petrol pump price will be charged. Petronet annually transports 16 billion litres of petroleum products along its 3 000km pipeline network. The levies are to be reviewed each year, and could be used as an instrument to contain the cost of fuel at the petrol pump.
It is important to note that clause 5 provides that levies will lapse after a five-year period. They could be reimposed by the Minister of Minerals and Energy, in consultation with the Minister of Finance, after a satisfactory assessment of the performance of the authority.
All members of the Select Committee on Finance agreed to this Bill. Therefore I, on behalf of the committee, want to recommend that this hon Council accepts this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
SECURITIES SERVICES BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance
thereon)
Mr E M SOGONI: Chair of Chairs, Comrade Chief Whip and colleagues, the Security Services Bill, Bill 19B of 2004, seeks to increase confidence in the South African financial markets by, firstly, requiring that securities services be provided in a fair, efficient and transparent manner, and by contributing to the maintenance of a stable financial market environment; secondly by promoting the protection of regulated persons and clients, reducing systemic risk, and promoting the international competitiveness of securities services in the Republic of South Africa. This is in line with the President’s endeavour to “focus on the growth, development and modernisation of the First World economy”.
Although South Africa is a developing country, its securities services, or stock exchange in layperson’s language, rate amongst the top five in the world. Its securities services are highly sophisticated.
South Africa is already a member of the International Organisation of Securities Commission, IOSCO, which regulates and sets standards for professional operations of securities services internationally. We are informed that South Africa’s standards are far higher than their requirements.
The Bill will consolidate the Stock Exchanges Control Act of 1985, the Financial Markets Control Act of 1989, the Custody and Administration of Securities Act of 1992 and the Insider Trading Act of 1998. In other words, these Acts are repealed. Clearly, these Acts are a bit outdated as they don’t comply with the Financial Advisory and Intermediary Services Act.
In line with the government’s principles of good governance, the Financial Markets Advisory Board is established and will investigate reports and advise on matters regarding regulated persons or the provision of securities services. A person who qualifies in terms of the requirements may apply to operate an exchange. Such an applicant must have insurance, a guarantee or compensation fund or other warranty in place to enable him or her to provide compensation to clients of authorised users. The requirements and conditions of listing, including removal from listing and suspension from trading, are discussed at length in this Bill.
Unlisted securities may be allowed to operate without a licence, though the registrar reserves the right to regulate such business. Advertising and canvassing for business must be authorised. Chapters 4 and 5 provide for the functioning and licensing of central securities depositories and self- regulatory organisations, SROs.
The registrar must be satisfied that the licensee acts according to the conditions, and the licence may be withdrawn or suspended at the end of the year. The licences may be renewed annually. The Bill also makes provision for approval of nominees to act as registered persons on behalf of other persons.
Clause 40 makes provision for the registration of securities. The securities may be transferred, pledged or ceded to secure debt. The sheriff of the court may attach securities under certain circumstances. Once licensed, the SRO will be a juristic person “capable of acquiring rights”. The SRO may convert a share capital in terms of the Companies Act, subject to strict conditions prescribed in chapter 5. Two or more SROs or CSDs may amalgamate, merge, transfer or be taken over. Where shares of an SRO have been bought for more than 15%, the registrar must be informed within 14 days.
There is a requirement to licence a clearing house also annually. Also, two or more clearing houses may be merged or amalgamated. The registrar is expected to prescribe a code of conduct that will be binding on authorised users, their officers, employees and clients.
Insider trading is an offence and if found guilty of such an offence, a person may be liable for a fine of not more than R50 million or a maximum of 10 years in jail. Manipulative, false or improper trading or deceptive practices are all treated as insider trading, therefore constituting serious offences. The Directorate of Market Abuse, formerly known as the Insider Trading Directorate, will monitor these practices.
An enforcement committee shall be established to oversee some of the abuses and will report directly and annually to the Financial Services Board. Chapter 9 makes provision for winding-up, judicial management, curatorship, etc. The government has kept its promise to support the First World economy, and the Select Committee on Finance supports the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
FINANCIAL SERVICES OMBUD SCHEMES BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance
thereon)
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Chair of Chairs and hon members, the primary objectives of the above Bill are to provide for the recognition of financial services ombud schemes; to lay down minimum requirements for ombud schemes; to promote consumer education with regard to ombud schemes; to co-ordinate the activities of ombuds of recognised schemes with the activities of the Pension Funds Adjudicator and the Ombud for Financial Services Providers and to act as a statutory ombud in certain cases.
The Bill proposes to achieve these objects through an independent council, which will exercise authority in applying the provisions of the Bill. It also provides for the establishment of the Financial Services Ombud Schemes Council, a body representative of consumers, the financial services industry and others, which will function as a committee of the Financial Services Board and be responsible for the application of the Act. The majority of members of the council must be independent of the financial services industry.
Essential functions of the council are to consider and grant or refuse applications for recognition of financial services; to monitor the compliance by recognised schemes with the requirements of the Act; to request independent assessments and audits of recognised schemes and their compliance with the Act; to promote consumer education with regard to available complaint resolution forums; to facilitate co-ordination of the activities of recognised schemes and those of the Adjudicator and the FAIS Ombud; and to develop and promote best practices for complaint resolution by recognised schemes.
The minimum requirements include majority support by those financial institutions in whose sector of industry the scheme will operate; the appointment of the ombud by a body not controlled by scheme participants, and to which body the ombud must be accountable; specified minimum requirements for the ombud in relation to qualifications, competence, knowledge and experience; sufficient financial, operational and human resources; specific requirements with regard to the procedures under which the ombud will operate; and provision for the effective enforcement of determinations of the ombud.
The Bill sets out the procedures to be followed when an application is made for the recognition of a financial services ombud scheme. The council has to be satisfied with the requirements laid down by the Act and will be entitled to either grant or refuse the application. It also deals with cases of uncertainty regarding jurisdiction over specific complaints.
The Bill empowers the FAIS Ombud to entertain client complaints, which cannot be accommodated by an ombud of any of the recognised schemes, when it is clear that a complainant’s rights to institute action through the courts are not affected.
The ombuds of recognised schemes are required to submit annual reports to the council and further to furnish any information, which the council may require from time to time. The council, in turn, must submit the report to the board or the Minister. The Bill also provides that no financial institution may, as from the day on which the Bill comes into operation as an Act, participate in a financial services ombud scheme. It also provides that any financial services ombud scheme existing immediately before the date on which the Bill comes into operation as an Act may continue in accordance with the provisions of that scheme until the expiry of 18 months from the date on which the Act came into operation.
Lastly, the Bill has no financial, organisational and personal implications for the state, except that the statutory recognition of ombud schemes is likely to alleviate the burden of the courts. The Select Committee on Finance supports this Bill. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
DRAFT NOTICE FOR DECLARATION OF AMNESTY
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs)
Mr Z C NTULI: Hon Chairperson and hon members of the NCOP, this is a request from the Department of Safety and Security to approve the notice for declaration of amnesty in terms of section 139(2) of the Firearms Control Act, Act 60 of 2000.
The Firearms Control Act was passed by Parliament. The purpose of the Act is to enhance the constitutional rights to life and bodily integrity; to prevent the proliferation of illegally possessed firearms by providing for the removal of those firearms from society; to improve control over legally possessed firearms; to prevent crime involving the use of firearms; to enable the state to remove illegally possessed firearms from society; to control the supply, possession, safe storage, transfer and use of firearms; to detect and punish the negligent or criminal use of firearms; to establish a comprehensive and effective system of firearms control and management; and to ensure the efficient monitoring and enforcement of legislation pertaining to the control of firearms.
Owing to some technicalities, it took a long time to implement the Act. From 2003 only the section dealing with accreditation was implemented, but from 1 July 2004 the Act was fully implemented.
The amnesty now is for people with illegal firearms to surrender these without being prosecuted. This should be done from 1 January 2005 to 31 March 2005. We are now making an appeal that this window period be used to submit those illegal firearms. However, the committee is concerned about our people who cannot read and write. We requested the department to make sure that these people were assisted when they made applications at a police station.
Finally, we request the Council to approve this request for the declaration of amnesty. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration of vote? No.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Eastern Cape supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?
Mr T RALANE: Iyaxhasa, Chairperson. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Iyadumela, Ntate. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re a dumela. [Limpopo supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Iyavuma. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: Western Cape supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the Report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MAMUSA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Local Government and
Administration)
Mr A L MOSEKI: Hon Chairperson, hon members – I see Kgoshi wants to entertain me as well – distinguished guests and citizens of South Africa, before us today is a report of the Mamusa Municipality of the North West province, that council that was elected by our people in the year 2000 to represent their interests and provide services to them.
In terms of section 152(1), chapter 7, of the Constitution, the objects of municipalities are to provide democratic and accountable government for local communities; to ensure the provision of services to communities in a sustainable manner; to promote social and economic development; to promote a safe and healthy environment; and to encourage the involvement of communities and community organisations in the matters of local government.
Based on the above, what is expected of public representatives when they assume public offices is to ensure that the objects as outlined in the Constitution are implemented. It is evident that since this municipality came into office it did not strive or try to meet these objectives.
As a result, the communities in that municipality began to raise complaints. They appealed to the provincial government and they appealed to the national government and this House to intervene on their behalf so that governance and service delivery could be normalised.
The conduct of the councillors in that municipality did not in any way indicate that they wanted to deliver the services they were expected to deliver to our communities. As a result, the provincial government listened to the communities. As they listened to the communities, the provincial government took a very decisive step to intervene. The provincial government sought the support of this House to intervene.
This House, having received the report from the provincial government, mandated the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration to interface with the role-players and stakeholders in that municipality in short, to get the facts as to what happened on the ground. Having done that, the select committee went down there to listen to the role-players and the stakeholders, as mandated by this House. We were satisfied as the select committee after this interaction that the decisive intervention made by the provincial government was the correct step to take in this regard. As a committee we supported that step. I’m using the past tense, because this has already happened.
Subsequent to that, elections took place in August 2004. Since the elections things changed showing that there was progress in that municipality. Development and governance in those areas have been restored. For that reason, once again as the select committee we want to ask this House to support this progressive step that was taken by the provincial government. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration of vote? No.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mr A T MANYOSI: Eastern Cape siyaxhasa. [Eastern Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?
Mr T RALANE: Chair, iyaxhasa. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Siyavuma, Chairperson. [We agree.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal iyaxhasa. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo rikotenelang. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga steun. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Ke wa rona. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPESON OF COMMITTEES: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona. [North West supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: Wes-Kaap is ten gunste. [Western Cape is in favour.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the Report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
VISIT TO KING SABATA DALINDYEBO LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Local Government and
Administration)
Mr S SHICEKA: Deputy Chairperson, I am presenting a report on the intervention in the King Sabata Dalindyebo Local Municipality. This municipality was an economic hub, and a financial and administrative engine for the former homeland of Transkei.
This municipality was the only municipality in the country under the leadership and in the hands of the UDM from the year 2000 until September after the by-elections. After the aforementioned processes, this municipality fell under the leadership of the ANC. The intervention in this municipality was as a result of political instability under the leadership of the UDM; overall institutional malfunctioning resulting in the budget not being adopted; low staff morale; and poor service delivery.
In that municipality there was no organogram, let alone policies on the placement of staff, performance contracts, and performance management and evaluation. The IDPs in that municipality were never adopted, ward committees were dysfunctional, money was spent on court cases – paying advocates for unnecessary cases – and money was even spent on matters in conflict with the Constitution. The council owes creditors over R270 million. Services were not paid for, and the communities were also not paying including the business community.
The UDM says that it can’t give back power, particularly the properties of the council, which were at the disposal of the mayor and the speaker, because they were elected for five years in 2000. Even if the balance of forces was changed, they say: “No, we still continue even if we are a minority in that council”.
The court case, however, will pronounce on this matter on Friday, 19 November. What is happening now as we speak, and what has happened so far since the intervention took place? Politically the council, under the leadership of the ANC, is stable. Administratively, the organogram was adopted in October 2004. Placement of staff is happening as we speak. The IDP is being reviewed as we speak. Ward committees are being revived and strengthened, and the budget has been adopted. I think you have also heard the Minister when he said that one of the municipalities that didn’t adopt the budget was the KSD Municipality. It’s me who is speaking, Beauty.
The challenges that the council is still faced with are regarding finances and servicing the debt and the filling of vacant posts in the finance department, particularly the revenue section of that department.
I want to conclude my input by saying that the visit by the committee to KSD was highly appreciated by all sectors of our communities, including the business sector. I want to thank the chair and her deputy, in absentia, for their political guidance and political leadership, the Chair of Committees and her deputy for their support, committee members for their incisive input and commitment, the staff members for their dedication, and my family, in particular my mother and my children for their care and love. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?
Mr T RALANE: We support.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: We support.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Re a dumela. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Noord-Kaap steun. [Northern Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: Western Cape supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Before we get to the Eighth Order of the Day, I would like to advise that I have been informed that there has been a change to the speakers’ list. Instead of the hon Shiceka, a member of the committee, Mr Chris Ntuli, will be speaking on the Eighth Order of the Day.
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO QAUKENI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Local Government and
Administration)
Mr Z C NTULI: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the Eastern Cape provincial government launched an intervention in the Qaukeni Local Municipality in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution in December 2003.
The political instability in the municipality appeared to stem from the unclear demarcation between governance and political processes in the Qaukeni Local Municipality. Affected councillors exploited loopholes in the absence of policies in the municipality. The conflicting parties attempted to revolt through the costly option of court action. This had a negative impact on the financial situation of the municipality.
It is fair to say that the Eastern Cape provincial government exhausted all available avenues prescribed by the Constitution and other legislation before launching the intervention.
The Select Committee on Local Government and Administration, as constituted after the election on 14 April 2004, conducted a second oversight visit to the Qaukeni Local Municipality in the Eastern Cape from 19 June to 22 June 2004, after receiving an application to extend the intervention.
The visit formed part of the oversight and review function accorded to the National Council of Provinces by section 139(2)(c) of the Constitution. The section requires that while an intervention is continuing, the NCOP must review the intervention regularly and may make any appropriate recommendations to the provincial executive.
From the launch of the intervention to the second visit by the NCOP in June 2004, the intervention focused on four key areas: conducting the IDP review process, redesigning the municipal organogram, implementing an information technology system, improving the financial management system and the provision of mentorship programmes.
In each of these areas the select committee found that there had been considerable progress since the commencement of the intervention. The committee found that the municipality was slowly being restored to full operation and optimal service delivery levels. The O R Tambo District Municipality expressed satisfaction with the level of service delivery in Qaukeni. The acting municipal manager prepared a budget that was well received by Eskom. The draft budget also formed the basis for a review of the municipality’s IDP.
Shortly after the select committee visit on 25 June 2004, the Council approved the revised IDP and budget. All stakeholders, with the exception of two wards, agreed that they were fully consulted during the IDP review. The intervention is now said to end by the end of November 2004. Since the select committee’s visit in June, the municipality has continued to follow the terms of reference of the intervention as well as many of the recommendations of the select committee.
Considerable progress has been made. The municipality has put in place the necessary human resource policies and has finalised an organogram. Staff placement has therefore begun and this will surely alleviate much of the uncertainty about the job losses. A disciplinary committee has recommended that three senior managers be relieved of their duties. They are the municipal manager, the human resources manager and the finance manager.
However, the intervention will not be the very end of the process, as many of those guilty of mismanagement will still be held accountable. The process to recover the municipal money has begun. This process affects four councillors. Two councillors have settled their matters out of court by agreeing to pay back moneys. A number of challenges lie ahead for the municipality. Ward committees raised problems regarding the lack of resources available for travelling within their wards as their areas are vast. The funding needs of ward committees therefore need to be considered urgently, not only in Qaukeni but across South Africa.
Secondly, the matter of delegating more powers to the mayor is currently before the Council. The institution of an executive mayoral system is seriously being considered. Notwithstanding these challenges, it appears that the municipality will soon be able to fulfil its constitutional and executive obligations at acceptable levels. This will be the ultimate test of the success of the intervention and the sustainability of the measures taken by the provincial government. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first give provinces an opportunity to make declarations of vote is they so wish. No province wants to declare. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Iyaxasa. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?
Mr T RALANE: Ha seketela, Chair. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Gauteng concurs.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: E a o thekga. [Supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Impumalanga iyawesekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Northern Cape supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona. [North West supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: Wes-Kaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 17:26. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
MONDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Council of Provinces
- Membership of Committees
(1) Mr F Adams has been elected Chairperson of the Committee on
Members' Legislative Proposals with effect from 15 November 2004.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on Draft Notice for Declaration of Amnesty, dated 11 November 2004:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Draft Notice for Declaration of Amnesty in terms of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No. 60 of 2000), referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 139(2)(a) of the Act, approve the said Draft Notice.
The Committee further recommends that, in implementing this declaration of amnesty, the Department assist illiterate people in filling in the application forms.
Report to be considered.
CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - Insert 1ATC1115
- Report of the Select Committee on Finance on Trends in Intergovernmental Finances: 2000/01-2006/07, dated 10 November 2004:
Insert 2ATC1115
TUESDAY, 16 NOVEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 16 November
2004:
(i) Finance Bill [B 13 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77)
(ii) Petroleum Pipelines Levies Bill [B 18 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
(iii) Securities Services Bill [B 19B - 2004] (National Assembly
- sec 75)
(iv) Financial Services Ombud Schemes Bill [B 20B - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75)
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Trade and Industry
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Companies and
Intellectual Property Registration Office (CIPRO) for 2003-2004,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004.
(b) The National Industrial Participation Programme for 2003-2004.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the National Small Business Amendment Bill [B 23B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 16 November 2004:
The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the subject of the National Small Business Amendment Bill [B 23B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Water Services Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 16 November 2004:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the subject of the Water Services Amendment Bill [B 17
- 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.