WEDNESDAY, 18 JUNE 2008 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:07.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

           NO NOTICES OF MOTIONS OR MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery have agreed that there will be no notices of motion or motions without notice today.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 34 – Water Affairs and Forestry:

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson, Minister Erwin, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, please join me in wishing President Mbeki a very happy and prosperous birthday, and we wish him many, many more. [Applause.] We wish him good health, prosperity and all the best for the future.

Hon members, let me remind this House that the ANC in 2004 made the commitment to the people of South Africa that, if elected, it would provide more households with water; speed up the provision of water and sanitation; provide free basic water; invest in infrastructure to enhance the competitiveness of our economy; facilitate broad-based economic empowerment; create jobs through the Expanded Public Works Programme and create a better life for our people.

I believe that my department has gone a long way to achieve these policy objectives and through the work we do and the budget allocation, we continue to change peoples’ lives for the better. Our work supports the delivery of clean water and adequate sanitation, and our activities in the forestry sector continue to make a positive impact on the lives of ordinary South Africans. We are well aware of the many backlogs still faced by our people, particularly women and children, and people with disabilities, and we are committed to working in a “Business Unusual” manner to address these backlogs.

The impact of bringing clean water and adequate sanitation to a household has a far-reaching impact on health and hygiene and on the economic and social status of that household. We have seen this impact when we visited communities and interacted with them. Very recently, during our Sanitation Week, we visited Inanda in KwaZulu-Natal and witnessed the difference that water and sanitation services have made to that community, in particular the alternative technology used for the provision of sanitation.

We have seen the positive impact on communities as a result of having ensured that all clinics in South Africa are provided with water and sanitation services. The impact of this was clear when we visited a clinic in the Amathole District Municipality in the Eastern Cape. The 91 clinics that had no access to water and sanitation services have now been provided with these services. A further 254 clinics that had facilities below the required standard also had their infrastructure upgraded to the required or acceptable standard.

Whilst celebrating these achievements, we forged ahead to remove the backlog in services to schools. To date we have serviced 69 schools that had no access to basic water and 51 schools that had no access to basic sanitation. The impact on the lives of these learners and their ability to perform at school, as a result of having adequate sanitation services, is significant.

During this International Year of Sanitation, we are committed to working in a “Business Unusual” manner to further extend the gains we have made in providing sanitation. Last year, in partnership with provincial government and municipalities, we successfully removed 94% of the bucket toilets in the established formal areas and we remain committed to removing the remaining backlog of 23 000 buckets in the Free State, Northern Cape and Eastern Cape. This work will be completed by September this year.

We are now seeing approximately one million more people receiving access to both water and basic sanitation services every year, and we are very proud of our achievement of having met the Millennium Development Goals’ target of halving the number of people without water and sanitation.

Access to water services has improved from 59% to 88% and basic sanitation from 48% to 73%. Since 1994 to date, we have serviced 18,7 million people with water and 10,9 million people with access to basic sanitation. I am encouraged by the leadership and commitment of the MECs, mayors, Premiers and councillors in all the provinces to ensuring that water and sanitation services delivery are given top priority.

It is important that we work very hard to ensure that provinces and municipalities are able to meet our targets and are given all the support they require to do so. Part of our support as a department has seen us deploying engineers to municipalities across the country, training 80 sewerage treatment plant operators in the Free State, and supporting municipalities to ensure that they deliver quality and up-to-standard drinking water to their communities.

We are also deploying our water boards to areas where particular problems have emerged. Currently, Bloem and Amathole Water Boards form part of an intervention initiative that is meant to address the problems that we are currently experiencing in the areas of the Ukhahlamba and Ndlambe District Municipalities in the Eastern Cape, and the expertise of Rand Water is being used to assist with the problems faced in Delmas.

The quality of our drinking water is a priority for us, and significant progress has been made to establish the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry as the Water Services Regulator. Through our efforts, alongside the Institute of Municipal Engineers and with the support of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, a challenging two-year project to monitor the drinking water quality of all 169 Water Services Authorities, WSA, has been successfully put in place.

To date, close to 90% of all WSAs are submitting their drinking water data on a timeous and ongoing basis. The result has been an overall improvement in the quality of drinking water and the creation of an enabling environment to ensure the effective management of drinking water.

Of those municipalities on the system, close to 95% report that their water quality complies with the national drinking water standard. The achievements here are impressive, as a survey in 2005 showed only 50% of municipalities had this information; and the successful implementation of this system has been recognised both locally and internationally.

Our department and its partners have received two awards in recent weeks, one from the National Science and Technology Forum and the second from the International Water Association.

As a priority, we are giving attention to the municipalities that are not yet reporting on their drinking water quality and those where drinking water quality failures have been detected. Drinking water quality is not something we can compromise on, and I will be further engaging municipalities at a municipal indaba to be held later this year.

Two days ago, at the Youth Day celebrations marking the 32nd anniversary of 16 June, President Mbeki, had this to say, and I quote:

Whereas the youth of 1976 used stones and barricades against repressive
forces, today’s youth should use education and skills to fight poverty
and unemployment.

My department has been supporting efforts to develop the youth by creating opportunities for learning through various programmes. Our efforts are also responding to the challenges of scarce skills, especially in the technical field, which has been identified as a risk area for both government and the private sector. As promised in 2007, we have established the Water and Forestry Learning Academy which to date has had an intake of 122 graduates who will benefit immensely from workplace experience and they will be able to register as professional engineers or technicians.

We have forged partnerships with nine higher education institutions and two professional bodies, and have awarded 105 bursaries to students studying towards qualifications in the technical fields. We have also been supporting the energy and water sector education and training authority, Seta, as well as the forestry Seta as part of our efforts to address the skills shortages in these sectors.

Water gives life, and creates economic opportunities. In recognition of this need to provide support to resource-poor emerging farmers, we supported the lands claim project at Hoedspruit in Mpumalanga which benefited 500 individuals. In the Northern Cape, financial assistance to the value of R2,3 million was given to farmers through the Vaalharts, Kakamas and Boegoeberg Water User Associations. We are also continuing with our Water Allocation Reform Programme. In the Mhlathuze River catchment in KwaZulu-Natal, we have provided sufficient water for 4000 hectares of new irrigation for emerging farmers.

In the Free State, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, Dwaf, has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs, paving the way for the joint implementation of the Water Allocation Reform Programme. Feasibility studies for the river utilisation of the Thaba Nchu scheme and for the allocation of 3000 hectares of water rights from the Orange River are nearing completion.

Our ability to successfully allocate water for economic development requires that we develop our water resources and protect those scarce water resources we already have. The protection includes preventing unlawful water use, particularly by the irrigation farmers. The evidence we have is that, in the Vaal River system, the amount of unlawful water used is equivalent to the water yield in the Mohale Dam in the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. In other words, the water being stolen can be supplied to approximately 8,5 million households using 100 litres per month. We are speedily moving to curb this unlawful water use.

Our second area of water resource protection, of course, is to fight pollution of water resources. Here we are implementing the waste discharge charge system and upgrading our efforts as regulator to combat non- compliance. I must say that we are also trying to increase the capacity of the enforcement unit in the department. We are taking our role as regulators seriously. We will be taking a tough stance with regard to transgressions. Pollution in all its forms will not be tolerated and we will leave no stone unturned in dealing with the polluters.

The National Imagery and Mapping Agency, Nima, amendment, brought to this House in collaboration with the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, is one of the initiatives aimed at strengthening my hand as the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry to curb the growing scourge of pollution. This task is huge and I need all the support and tools necessary, and hence I appeal to the House to support us in our efforts to protect and conserve this national resource. I’m looking forward to the deliberations of the select committee in this regard.

Unfortunately, some of the pollution is the result of sewage spills into our water resources from municipal water waste and water treatment plants. While, as a regulator we are, and must, adopt a tough stance because of the negative impact which it has on health, the community and the environment, we recognise that there are challenges in some municipalities in local government. In those cases we offer support to the municipality with emergency short- term measures, minor refurbishments to contain the problem and assist them with drafting longer-term water and sewerage infrastructure master plans. And, of course, we do all this in collaboration with the Department of Provincial and Local Government and the SA Local Government Association, Salga.

Another important initiative that I would like briefly to talk about - it’s well-known to members – is the Working for Water Programme. This is also an initiative to protect our water resources because it deals with the alien species which tend to be water guzzlers. During the last financial year we cleared 140 000 ha of the new areas and provided almost 550 000 ha for follow-up treatment.

We need to develop and expand our water resource infrastructure to meet the increasing demand for water as our economy grows and the standards of living of our communities improve. My department has a responsibility to ensure that there is enough water to support economic growth and to meet social needs.

This means we will need to develop new infrastructure and also to rehabilitate existing infrastructure. In the current year, R1,2 billion will be spent on the establishment of new water resources infrastructure and R415 million on the rehabilitation of existing infrastructure.

We are progressing well with Hluhluwe, Inyaka and Nandoni government Water Works through which we provide 2,4 million people with drinking water in the rural communities in the KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Limpopo provinces. This financial year we will be starting the Umdloti River Development Project, raising the Hazelmere Dam, developing the Mooi-Mngeni system and constructing the Komati Abstraction Works and pipelines for the water supply to Eskom’s Duvha Power Station in Mpumalanga.

To support our efforts to provide infrastructure, which is needed to meet the Asgisa growth target and to ensure a well-developed and well-maintained water resource infrastructure, we are hoping to establish in the near future a National Water Resource Infrastructure Agency.

The Bill to establish this agency has already been tabled in the National Assembly and it is under consideration by Parliament. I would like to inform members that this agency was decided on after due consideration of many alternative options for best managing the water resource infrastructure in the country. Now we will see the incorporation of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, TCTA, into an agency together with our department’s infrastructure branch. We are hoping the benefit of this will be that they’ll be able to attract finance from capital markets for the development of water resource infrastructure. That will then free up government funds to enable us to deal with our other sociodevelopmental needs. With regard to forestry, we are continuing with our plans to increase the area under afforestation. The department is undertaking an extensive study to assess the potential for the afforestation in the country. This study will provide empirical information on the parts of the country that are suitable for afforestation. In the areas where land suitability has already been identified, such as the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, we are speedily rolling out the programme.

Less than a month ago, we signed the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE Charter for the forestry sector, which will go a long way to creating more opportunities for black people in the forestry sector as well as the expansion of the sector. We are very supportive of the initiatives to include communities in empowerment programmes and we have seen some of our own forests being transferred to dispossessed communities.

As part of the settlement of a successful land restitution claim, we have recently transferred the ownership of the forest assets to the Mbazwana and Manzengwenya community in Northern KwaZulu-Natal. We will very soon be making an announcement about a settlement of the Dukuduku and the Futhululu forest issues in KwaZulu-Natal.

Forestry remains an important contributor to the economic growth and to the development of the rural communities. Through our Forestry Enterprise Development Programmes we are supporting these communities. For example, in Gauteng a nursery co-operative was initiated; it is in the process of being registered. In North West, a turnaround strategy, including the planting of the hybrid eucalyptus, has been compiled for the Mooifontein Plantation. In Limpopo, the Vhembe and Mopani small growers have established and registered a co-operative, which is encouraging because this will result in small growers equipping themselves to compete in the market.

Last year, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and Western Cape experienced devastating veld fires with a total area of 63 964 ha of plantation area being burnt to the ground. This is a significant increase over previous years and has badly affected the industry.

To combat veld fires, a total of 20 fire associations and national fire danger rating flags in 12 schools have been established. Later this year my department will be rolling out the national fire danger rating system which will be collaborating with the SA Weather Service to serve as an early warning system for the likelihood of the occurrence of veld and forest fires.

This system is an important tool for integrated fire management and a budget of R400 000 has been set aside for technical support. In addition, a countrywide firewise awareness campaign costing about R3 million will be run this year. To conclude - my time is running out - our efforts to create a better life for our people have seen us using local skills and businesses in many of our projects. I want to share this information with you: Just in the past financial year we created 24 249 jobs, 8 400 for women and 8 400 for the youth, through our National Sanitation Programme.

We also created 30 210 jobs through the Working for Water Programme. Of those jobs 16 340 jobs were for women, 6 600 for the youth and 599 for people with disabilities.

We have also created jobs through the Working on Fire programme; and as we celebrate Youth Day we recognise the 1 384 jobs and youth employment opportunities that have also been created in the construction of water infrastructure.

Finally, I would like to thank the Director-General, Miss Pam Yako, and her team, seated in the gallery, for their support; and the staff in the department from the provinces and all over for their hard work and commitment.

I would also like to thank the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, under the leadership of the hon Reverend Moatshe, for the important oversight they do over our department. Hon members and Chairperson, I request the House to support my department’s budget of R6,6 billion. Thank you. Mnr A WATSON: Voorsitter, agb Ministers, agb kollegas, u weet, Mpumalanga is bekend as die voorsiener van krag, ontspanning en bykans alle vorme van voedsel, maar min mense besef die belangrike rol wat my pragtige provinsie vervul in die voorsiening van water aan Suid-Afrika.

U sien, daar in die Hoëveld van Mpumalanga, in die omgewing van Ermelo, Breyton en Chrissiesmeer, vorm daar ’n uiters belangrike waterskeiding waarvandaan daar vier van Suid-Afrika se belangrikste riviere ontstaan. Die bekendste hiervan is natuurlik die Vaalrivier, wat ook verantwoordelik is vir die vorming van die Vaaldam, wat aansluit by die Oranjerivier en dwarsdeur ons land vloei tot waar dit by die see by Oranjemund, aan die voet van Namibië, invloei.

Dan is daar die Usuturivier, waarvan nie baie mense weet nie, wat suid-oos vloei dwarsdeur Swaziland waar dit bekend is as die Lusutfu en uiteindelik in Mosambiek die see bereik as die Suthurivier.

Aan die ander kant van die waterskeiding ontstaan nog die Groot- en Klein- Olifantsriviere wat in ’n noordwestelike rigting vloei, ’n draai maak by Loskopdam en dan uiteindelik in ’n ooswaartse rigting die Krugerwildtuin bereik.

Die vierde rivier waaroor ek vandag breedvoerig wil uitbrei, is die Komatirivier. Uit hierdie belangrike rivier, wat eers noord vloei en dan oos, ontstaan die Nooitgedachtdam in die omgewing van Carolina en die Vygeboomdam naby Badplaas. Daarna vloei die rivier ook Swaziland binne om weer by Mananga die Republiek binne te vloei; en by Komatipoort sluit die Krokodilrivier daarby aan voordat dit in Mosambiek invloei as die Inkomati.

Tussen die Nooitgedacht- en die Vygeboomdamme is daar egter een van die grootste wateringenieursnalatenskappe waarvan min mense bewus is. Die Nooitgedachtdam is gebou om die Hendrina-omgewing en die belangrike steenkoolmyne en kragstasies van die gebied met water te voorsien.

Soos ek reeds genoem het, vloei die Komatirivier weer anderkant die Nooitgedachtdam uit om verder af die Vygeboomdam te voed. Die Vygeboomdam is egter ook ’n reservoir vir die stelsel, want as die watervlak van die Nooitgedachtdam laag raak, word die water weer van die Vygeboomdam af bergop gepomp om die Nooitgedachtdam te voed sodat daar altyd water is vir die belangrike voorsiening van die kragstasies en die steenkoolmyne.

Hierdie is ’n unieke pompstelsel en pypstelsel wat u gerus kan gaan besoek as u daar kom. U weet, enige stelsel moet deurlopend in stand gehou word, en veral toe daar nou begin is met mnr Erwin se kragstasies wat hulle weer in werking wil stel om die kragkrisis te help verlig, is die Departement van Waterwese en Bosbou herhaaldelik gewaarsku dat die pypstelsel van die Nooitgedachtdam opgeknap en opgegradeer moet word en dat uitgediende pompstasies weer in werking gestel moet word.

Intussen is die Komatikragstasie weer besig om uit die spreekwoordelike dode op te staan en die waterverbruik het die hoogte ingeskiet, maar u departement, agb Minister, het egter nie sy kant gebring nie. Die pyplyn, die lewensaar van die gebied, kan nou nie die benodigde water lewer nie. Intussen is daar ongeveer twee jaar terug ook besluit om, as bykomende maatreël, die afvalwater van die Optimummyn daar naby weer te suiwer en dan deur te pomp na die Hendrina omgewing.

Die impakstudies is voltooi; die perseel vir die suiweringswerke is bepaal, maar, o wee, daar is nog niks verder gevorder met die installering van die stelsel nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon colleagues, you know that Mpumalanga is known as a supplier of power, recreation and just about all types of food, but few people realise the important role played by my beautiful province in the supply of water to South Africa.

You see, there in the Highveld of Mpumalanga, in the vicinity of Ermelo, Breyton and Chrissiesmeer, an extremely important water-parting takes place from which the four major rivers of South Africa spring. The most prominent of these, of course, is the Vaal River, which is also responsible for forming the Vaal Dam, which links up with the Orange River and flows right across our land into the sea at Oranjemund, bordering on Namibia.

Then we have the Usutu River, not known to a lot of people, which flows south-easterly through Swaziland, where it is known as the Lusutfu, finally reaching the sea in Mozambique as the Suthu River.

On the other end of the water-parting the Big and Little Olifant Rivers also take shape and flow in a north-westerly direction, making a detour at the Loskop Dam and eventually winding in an easterly direction to reach the Kruger National Park.

The fourth river about which I will go into some detail today is the Komati. From this major river, at first flowing to the north and then to the east, the Nooitgedacht Dam is formed in the vicinity of Carolina, as well as the Vygeboom Dam near Badplaas. This river then also enters Swaziland,returning to the Republic at Mananga, and at Komatipoort it is joined by the Crocodile River before it flows into Mozambique as the Inkomati.

Between the Nooitgedacht Dam and the Vygeboom Dam, however, lies the heritage of one of our largest water engineering feats, of which few people are aware. The Nooitgedacht Dam was constructed to supply water to the Hendrina region with its vital coal mines and power stations.

As I have already mentioned, on the far side of the Nooitgedacht Dam the Komati continues to flow, feeding the Vygeboom Dam further downstream. But the Vygeboom Dam is also a reservoir for this system because, when the water level of the Nooitgedacht Dam drops, water is pumped back uphill from the Vygeboom Dam in order to feed the Nooitgedacht Dam, thereby maintaining its level at all times for the continuous supply of water to the power stations and coal mines.

It is a unique system of pumps and pipes, which members should go and view if they are in the area. You know, any system requires continuous maintenance, and in particular when Mr Erwin’s power stations were going to be refurbished so as to assist in alleviating the energy crisis, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry was frequently warned to restore and upgrade the pipeline of the Nooitgedacht Dam and refurbish the obsolete pump stations.

Meanwhile the Komati power station has arisen from the proverbial dead and water usage has skyrocketed, but your department, hon Minister, has not done its share. The pipeline, the lifeblood of the region, is now unable to supply the required water. And in the interim, as an additional measure, it was decided about two years ago to recycle the wastewater of the neighbouring Optimum Mine and pump it back to the Hendrina region. The impact studies have been completed; the site for the water treatment plant has been determined, but oh dear, no progress has been made with the implementation of the system.]

Now, hon Minister, we not only have load shedding, but we also have water shedding – and most probably as a result of mind shedding!

U departement moet nou die mooi praatjies los, agb Minister, en dringend aandag gee aan die waternood in die Hendrina-omgewing. Ek wonder of u enigsins bewus is daarvan dat die streng waterbeperkings ook ’n uiters negatiewe uitwerking het op skole, klinieke, sakeondernemings en die gemeenskap in sy geheel. Ek verneem dat daar in ’n stadium geen water was nie en dat dit later, elke dag vanaf sewe-uur in die oggend tot vieruur, totaal afgesny is.

Almal besnoei natuurlik nou waterverbruik en die toestand het, as gevolg daarvan, effe verbeter, maar waterbeperkings word steeds toegepas, met tye wat daar geen water is nie. Dit is ’n skreiende skande en ’n mens kan maar net wonder waar elders hierdie probleem ook sy kop gaan uitsteek. Hoe meer kragstasies in werking gestel word, hoe meer moet daar steenkool gemyn word en hoe meer water is nodig. Ek hoop dat hierdie waarskuwing betyds u ore bereik.

Hierdie is nie water wat onder deur die brug is nie, agb Minister, dis water wat opgevang, gesuiwer en terug gepomp kan word. Agb Minister, ek sou ook graag tyd wou gehad het om ’n bietjie met u te gesels oor die besoedeling van die Loskopdam vanuit die nywerheidsgebiede van Witbank en Middelburg deur die Groot- en Klein-Olifantsrivier waar daar nou duisende visse vrek. Die krokodille vreet die verrotte vis en hulle vrek ook op die hope, en ek hoop dat u dringend aan hierdie probleem aandag sal gee sodat ons natuurbewaring ook nie sal skade ly deur die nalatige werk van u departement nie. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Your department should cut out the flowery language, hon Minister, and give urgent attention to the scarcity of water in the Hendrina region. I wonder if you are at all aware of the fact that the strict water restrictions are also having an extremely negative effect on schools, clinics, businesses and the community as a whole. I believe that at one stage there was no water whatsoever and that, subsequently, on a daily basis from seven o’clock in the morning until four o’clock in the afternoon, the supply was cut off altogether.

Of course, now everybody is cutting down on water usage and the situation has improved somewhat as a result, but the water restrictions are still in force and at times water is simply not available. This is a crying shame and one can only wonder where else this problem is going to rear its head as well. The more power stations are brought online, the more coal will have to be mined and the more water will be required. I hope this warning reaches your ears in time.

This is not water under the bridge, hon Minister, but it is water that can be collected, purified and pumped back. Hon Minister, I would have liked some time to discuss the pollution of the Loskop Dam from the Witbank and Middelburg industrial areas, through the Big and Little Olifant Rivers, and where thousands of fish are now dying off. Crocodiles are eating these rotting fish and are also dying in numbers, so I hope that you will give urgent attention to this problem and that our nature conservation won’t also suffer because of the negligence of your department. I thank you.]

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Modulasetulo, Matona a Mafapha ao a hlomphegago, badiredi ba mmušo, maloko ao a hlomphegago, … [Chairperson, hon departmental Ministers, public servants, hon members …]

… comrades and compatriots, throughout the developing world lack of access to clean water is one of the defining criteria of poverty.

Ke rata go botša maloko le Matona ka seo se ilego sa nhlagela. Ke rometše bana gae ga-Masemola. Mokgekolo, ka go hloka meetse, o ile a ba fa kiribane gore ba sepele ba ye go mo gelela meetse. Ba rile ge ba gelela meetse, ba hwetša digwagwa dithutha ka mo meetseng ao. Ba ile ba kga meetse ba thabile. Gosasa ge letšatši le hlaba gomme bana ba re ba nyaka meetse a go hlapa meno, mokgekolo o ile are ba tšee wona meetse ale ba hlape meno ka wona. Ba ile ba botša koko wa bona gore digwagwa di be di rutha ka meetseng ao, ka fao ga ba a nyake. Ba ile ba nyaka mogala gomme ba nteletša ba re ke tle ke ba tšee ka ge koko wa bona a sa ba sware gabotse.

Bjale, lehono ke rata go botša Tona ke re: Gabotsebotse, o mme wa makgonthe. Ge ke bolela bjale, go na le dipompi tšeo di ntšhago meetse Ga- Masemola. Bana ba ka ge ba e ya gona ga ba sa na bothata. Ba kgona go ya gomme ba fetše matšatši ba bona koko wa bona. Ba ipshina ka go hlapa meno gape ba boye ba re ge ba le go koko wa bona go swana le ge ba dutše ka gae. Ba a iketla gape ba robale ba ipshina ba tseba gore ba tlo ja bogobe bja makgonthe bja go apeiwa ka meetse a nnete - esego ale a sediba. Ke meetse ao a buletšwego pomping.

Bontši bja badudi ba Afrika-Borwa ga ba kgone go fihlelela ditefelo tša meetse. Ke ka fao mmušo o ilego wa tla ka lenaneo la “Free Basic Water”. Se se dirilwe ka go tseba gore Molaotheo wa Afrika-Borwa o akaretša le bao ba itlhokelago, ba dikobo di magetleng. Eupša lenaneo le le bolela gape ka bao ba šomišago dilitara tša go feta tšeo di beilwego. Ba swanetše go di lefela. Ge e le gore o šomiša dilitara tša go feta tšeo mmušo o rego go swanelegile gore o ka di šomiš a kantle le go di lefela, tseba gore ke maikarabelo a gago bjalo ka modudi yo mongwe le yo mongwe wa Afrika-Borwa go bona gore dilitara tšeo di a lefelwa. Se se ra gore badudi ka moka ba Afrika-Borwa, maloko ao a hlomphegago ao a lego mo, le badiredi ba mmušo bao ba lego mo, ba swanetše go ithuta go seketša meetse. Moswana o re: Šikiša dira le molapo, mphago wa dira ke meetse. Se se ra gore, … (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to inform members and Ministers about what happened to me in the past. My children went to visit my mother at Ga-Masemola. As there were no taps, the old lady provided the children with a wheelbarrow and ordered them to go and fetch water. They found frogs swimming in the well they were to fetch water from. The next morning when the children wanted to brush their teeth, the grandmother ordered them to use the very water which they fetched from the well the other day. They told their grandmother that frogs were swimming in that well, therefore they did not want to use the water. They called and requested me to come and fetch them because they thought their grandmother ill-treated them.

Therefore, I would like to say to the Minister today: you are actually a real mother indeed. There are taps at Ga-Masemola as I speak. My children no longer encounter problems when they visit. They are now able to visit their grandmother for days. They enjoy brushing their teeth and say that when they are at their grandmother’s house, it feels like they are at home. They relax and sleep happily knowing that they will eat porridge which is cooked with clean water and not with the water from the well. It is water which runs from the tap.

Most South African citizens cannot afford to pay for water services. That is why government introduced the programme of ‘Free Basic Water’. This was done with the knowledge that the Constitution of South Africa includes even the poverty-stricken people. This programme, however, refers also to those who use more litres than they ought to. This implies that all citizens of South Africa, hon members and public servants who are present, must learn to save water. The Elders say: we must always save water. This means …]

… whatever we do as a nation, as communities, as villages, as families – let’s teach our children how to save water, because water is life.

Mmušo o leka go dira gore le batho ba kua dinageng-magae tša go swana le bo Limpopo, moo go bego go se na le methopo ya meetse eupša go tshephilwe fela meetse a didiba le a go tšwa dinokeng le melapong go swana le ao ke bego ke bolela ka ga wona a go bonwa ke bašemanyana ba ka, ba kgone go hwetša meetse ao a hlwekilego. Ke ka lebaka leo re bago le bothata ge badudi ba falatša meetse fase ba sa hlomphe seo e lego bohwa le bophelo bja diphidi kamoka go akaretšwa le badudi ba Afrika-Borwa ka moka.

Afrika-Borwa ke naga yeo e nago le meetse ao e lego gore ga a nene. Go tloga go nyamiša go bona badudi ba sa iše kgopelo ya mmušo ya tsheketšo ya meetse felo. Ge go hlomilwe dipompi mo mibileng go leka go dira gore ka moso di tle di kgone go fihlelela badudi ka gae, o hwetša batho ba bagolo ba buletše yona pompi ye ke rego e fepa mokgekolo mme wa ka kua gae gomme meetse a falala fase. O hwetša bana ba eme mola ba enwa ka diatla.

Bjalo ka mmušo wa ANC re re tlhobaboroko ye nngwe ke go rengwa ga dihlare. Mola batho ba bolelago gore bona ge ba tšhumile dihithara ka mo gae ba šomiša mohlagase gape ga ba tutele, ba nyaka dikgong ka kua tle. Bjalo re re, badudi ba Afrika Borwa, tsebang gore bohwa bja rena le maphelo a rena a ka mo diatleng tša meetse. O ka sepela le naga ye ka moka o se na sa go ja, efela ge o na le lebotlelwana goba galase ya meetse, o ka kgona go phela go fihlela mo o yago gona.

Re dira kgopelo go Lefapha la Merero ya Meetse le Dithokgwa gore ba lebelele malwetši ao a hlolwago ke meetse ka leihlo le ntšhotšho. Go tšhilafala ga meetse ke tlhobaboroko kudu le go rena ba ANC. Re swanetše go ba le mananeo ao ka wona maloko a Ntlo ye e hlomphegago ye ba tlago leka gore ba tšwe ba ye ditikolong tšeo ba šomelago go tšona tša dikarolokgetho tša bona ba bone gore ba ruta batho ka go se tšhilafatše meetse.

Meetse a bohlokwa kudu. Ke ka baka leo lefapha la gago Tona le kgonago go dira gore go be le mananeo ao elego gore batho ba ba go wona. Ke bile gona go le lenngwe la mananeo a kua tikolong ya ka ya karolokgetho ya Ga- Mmalebogo. Ke thabile kudu ka baka la gore lenaneo le le hlagile ka morago ga gore batho ba tšwe mo thelebišeneng ba e nwa meetse moo go bego go biloga mo fase; ba e nwa le diphoofolo; ba bangwe ba hlatswetša kua; ba bangwe ba gelela a mangwe a go hlapa kua; gomme ba bangwe ba gelela a go nwa.

Ke a tseba gore go na le bothata bjo bogolo ga bo Morena Thetjeng moo e lego gore meetse ga a gona. Bjale ke re, Morena Thetjeng, tseba gore sello sa gago se tsene mo ditsebeng tša Tona. O bone, o kwele. O tla phethagatša seo se swanetšego go dirwa ka baka la gore re mmušo wo o hlokomelago batho. Ga re mmušo wa go sepela fela. Re mmušo wo o dirago gore batho ba kwešiše ge re na le diphoso gore phoso ke ya go dirwa ke mang le mang yo e lego motho ge a sepela. Ge o šoma, phoso e swanetše go direga ka mo morago.

Bjale, bothata bjo bongwe bjo bo lego gona ke bja gore ge mmušo o beetše batho diphaepe mo go itšego, badudi ba lesa bana ba eya go swamolola dipautu mola diphaepeng. Ge diphaepe tšela di se sa šoma, ba a bowa ba lebelela mmušo gore o ba thuše ka diatla. Na molato ke wa mang? Ekaba ke wa rena batswadi, badudi ba Afrika-Borwa goba badudi ba motse woo? Ge mmušo o beile pompi mola, ba swanetše ba ye ka moka ga bona gomme ba ngwathelane meetse ao a lego gona ba kgone go phela.

Kua go Mmasepala wa Blouberg go na le bothata bja meetse kudu, mohlomphegi Tona. Bothata bjo bo ka mokgwa woo e lego gore batho ka moka ga bona ge ba hweditše bonnyane bja meetse, ba lwela meetse ao. Re swanetše go leka go boledišana le ba mmasepala wo gore re ba fe bokgoni bja go tseba gore badudi ge ba nyaka meetse, IDP e swantše e thome ka meetse. Ge e le go ya ka nna, lefapha la gago Tona le be le swanetše go hwetša tšhelete ye nngwe ya go feta ye o e hwetšago gabjale gore o tle o kgone go phethagatša dinyakwa tša batho ba kua Ga-Mmalebogo le ba Afrika-Borwa ka moka.

Se se lego gona ke gore pula e na ka morago ga sebaka kua Limpopo. Bjale, meetse a hlokega. Badudi ka moka ba swanetše ba itote. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[The government tries to ensure that even people from rural areas like Limpopo, where there were no water resources, are able to access clean water since in the past, people only relied on water which came from rivers and wells like the water I referred to earlier. That is the reason we have a problem when citizens waste water. They do not realise that water is the source of life.

South Africa is a land with an insufficient water supply. It is disappointing to see citizens ignoring government’s plea to save water. When taps are placed so that people can access water, you find elderly people running and spilling the very water which helps my mother. You find children drinking water using their hands.

Another problem that the ANC government is faced with is deforestation. People said that they use electricity and switch heaters on at home, but do not get warm; hence they subsequently resort to fetching wood. We therefore say to all South African citizens that our life and wealth are dependent on our water supply. You can travel around without food, but if you have a small bottle or a glass of water you can survive.

We appeal to the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to scrutinize diseases caused by unclean water. Unclean water is a huge problem, even to us as the ANC. We must have programmes in place whereby members of this august House will go to their constituencies and teach people about maintaining clean water. Water is of paramount importance. That is the reason your department, Minister, is able to launch programmes in which people participate.

I participated in one of these programmes in my constituency. I am very glad, because this programme was launched after people on television were seen drinking unclean water with animals; some people were doing laundry, some were taking a bath whilst others drank the very same water.

I know there is a water scarcity problem where Mr Thetjeng lives. Therefore Mr Thetjeng, you must know that the Minister heard your voice. She will do what she is supposed to as we are a government which makes people understand that we do make mistakes, because to err is human. There will always be a fault when one works hard.

Another problem is that when government lays pipes, adults allow children to disconnect the bolts from these pipes. When the pipes no longer operate properly, they come back and expect the government to assist them. Whose problem is it? Is it the problem of the parents, the South African citizens or the residents? When government places taps, they must all share the available water supply in order to survive.

Honourable Minister, there is a huge problem with regard to water scarcity at the Blouberg Municipality. The problem is such that people fight over a small amount of the available water supply. We must try to speak to the municipality and capacitate them to know that – the Integrated Development Plan, IDP, must start with the supply of water as their top priority. In my view, your department is supposed to be allocated a bigger budget in order to meet the requirements of the people at Ga-Mmalebogo and the rest of South Africa.

The fact is that it only rains after a long period of time in Limpopo. Therefore there is a scarcity of water. [Applause.]]

Mor P MOATSHE: Mmusakgotla, Ditona le Ntlo ka kakaretso, Motswana a re tlhapi solofela leraga metsi a tšhele o a lebile. A re tsaya sego o ntlele metsi mme o tsenye letlapa. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: Madam Speaker, Ministers and the House at large, Motswana once said that one should not cry over spilled milk. He further continued to say that if one is sent to carry out a task, he should do it with all his might.]

Many national departments, in their budget submissions as well as their strategic plans, recognise the challenges encountered by South Africa. Broadly, these include but are not limited to poverty eradication and building the capacity of the state to implement government policies in order to create a better life for all.

The initiatives to meet these challenges are underpinned by the principles outlined in Asgisa, the government programme of action, as well as the imperatives as listed for water, sanitation and forestry in the state of the nation address.

With regard to the specific challenges confronting the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, the Minister’s statement in the Strategic Plan 2007- 2008 and 2009-2010, notes the following in delivering on the mandate of Asgisa:

… the building of new infrastructure and the need to bring on board all beneficiary communities and stakeholders during planning, implementation and management of the infrastructure; the supply of water and timber as critical inputs into the economy, and the creation of opportunities for broad-based empowerment and small business development … to establishment of a national water resources infrastructure agency to manage and develop our national water resources infrastructure for economic development and access to water for social needs …

The department has been given a mandate by the Cabinet to implement an acceleration plan for the service and delivery of water and sanitation in collaboration with the provinces and municipalities.

Lenaneophethogo la tsamaiso ya kabelo ya metsi le go dirisa maatlatetlelelo go fitlhelela maikaelelo a a lokologileng a moruo go nna a ntlhantlha, go tlisa mowa o moša mo tsamaisong ya dikgwa le go atolosa mekgwa ya tsamaiso ya dikgwa; tiragatso ya tshomarelo ya metsi le tsamaiso e e lolameng ya ba ba batlang metsi; tsamaiso ya dipeeletso mo mafaratlhatlheng le mafaratlhatlhakabo a bo masepala go siamisa neelano ya ditiro; ke magato a ntlha a ditekanyetsokabo go lepalepana le seemo sa lefapha se se fetogang. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[The acceleration plan to supply water seeks to provide water authorities with a clear understanding of an economic objective, which brings about new ideas in the forestry industry and afforestation. The implementation of water conservation as well as proper water management skills can help to meet the demands in water supply; investing in the municipality’s infrastructure may improve service delivery and help create jobs. It should be the budget’s priority to deal with the changing situation in the department.]

The purpose should be to ensure that all people in South Africa have access to adequate, sustainable, viable, safe, appropriate and affordable water and sanitation services and that they use water wisely and sparingly and practise safe sanitation.

Go netefatsa gore batho botlhe ba Aforika Borwa ba fitlhelela tiriso e e rileng ya metsi le tiriso ya kgelelo ya leswe e e dirang ka ngwaga wa 2014, ka go baya tsamaiso e e tlhwatlhwa, e e tla kgontshang ditheo tsa selegae go ya ka melawana ya kabelo ya ditirelo. Go tlhokomela gore dikolo tsotlhe tse di se nang ditirelo di fitlhelelwe ke ditirelo tsa kabo ya metsi a a phepha le kelelo ya leswe e e dirang sentle, le gore maokelopotlana kgotsa ditliliniki a jaanong a se nang ditirelo, le a a se nang ditirelo tse di lekaneng a bone ditirelo mo dingwageng tse di neng di kailwe ke lefapha … (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[In order to ensure that all people in South Africa receive basic water and sanitation services by 2014, we have to develop an effective administrative strategy which will be implemented at local government level in accordance with service delivery policies and legislation. Furthermore, we have to ensure that all schools which are currently experiencing a lack of clean water supply and proper sanitation services are provided with these services, and that mini hospitals or clinics who are currently receiving inadequate services are also provided with proper services as determined by the department …] … so that this budget contributes to facilitating the provision of regional bulk infrastructure by 2011 by developing the national implementation framework.

Our forests must be protected at all costs. We must ensure the sustainable management of all forests, woodlands and plantations by enforcing the National Forest Act of 1998 and associated regulations. We must also reduce incidents of veld, forest and mountain fires in line with the National Veld and Forest Fire Act by implementing fire management and warning information systems and publishing monthly reports.

We must contribute to economic development and poverty eradication by implementing the National Forest Act, The Million Trees Programme and establishing mechanisms to promote enterprise development in the sector.

South Africa has made significant strides in sanitation delivery. Since 1994, more than 11 million people have benefited from the government’s sanitation programme. More than 91% of bucket sanitation systems that existed prior to 1994 in informal settlements were supposed to be removed by the end of April 2008 as a special category of the government’s sanitation programme. The Minister will respond to this question of where we are in terms of this promise to eradicate the bucket system in informal settlements.

Le fa go nnile le magato a puso e a tsereng tebang le ntlha e, tshotlhelelo e nnile bonya, ya tlhoka teketekano, ya tswa mo motlhaleng wa go fitlhelela maikaelelo a Millennium Development Goals. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Even if steps have been taken by the government in relation to this matter, there has only been a minimal breakthrough in that regard, and it has been derailed from its Millennium Development Goals objective.]

The second African Conference on Sanitation and Hygiene held in February 2008 in Durban is one major regional activity on the International Year of Sanitation calendar, which provided a platform for African Ministers to launch the International Year of Sanitation in Africa and to assess the progress, challenges and lessons to be learnt in order to achieve the sanitation Millennium Development Goals in Africa.

Kapa Bokone ya re e na le dinoka tse pedi tse di nang metsi a mantsi fela ga go a dirwa gore go nne le matamo a a ka tsholang metsi a a ka thusang ka nako ya komelelo. Ga ke itse gore jaaka Kapa Bokone e le porofense ka bo yona, maano a lefapha ke afe go ba tshegetsa mo ntlheng eno gore ba somarele metsi ka nako ya dipula tse di nang di le namagadi gore ka nako ya komelelo ba bo ba na le metsi a ba ka ikaegang ka ona.

Re rata gore rona re le komiti re tshegetse tekanyetsokabo e ya lefapha, mme re eleletse Tona le lefapha nako e e namagadi, mme pula ya matsorotsoro e nele lefatshe la rona gore segwagwa se utlwiwe se lela mo meeding le mo melatswaneng go supa gore tota pula e tshologile ka makatlanamane. Ke leboga komiti e e tshegeditseng tsamaiso e. Ke a leboga. Pula!

MALOKO A A TLOTLEGANG: A e ne! [Legofi.] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Northern Cape says it has two flowing rivers which has a lot of water but there are no dams which were built to store water that would help during times of drought. Since the Northern Cape is a province on its own, I do not know what plans the department has in the pipeline to ensure that water from these downpours is being stored so that in times of drought it can be used.

We would like to mention that we, as the committee, support this Budget Vote of the department, and we would like to wish the Minister and the department everything of the best. Let the rains fall in our land in abundance, for frogs to be heard croaking in streams and rivulets from afar, showing that we have indeed experienced sufficient rainfall. I thank the committee which supported this process. Thank you. Cheers!

HON MEMBERS: Let it rain! [Applause.]] Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, ngiyabonga koNgqongqoshe bobathathu. Ngithi okumhlophe kodwa! [Chairperson, I thank all three Ministers. I greet you all!]

There is no doubt that the budget presented before us is a most important budget. We can live without food for a long period, but we cannot live without water for any given period. The IFP is aware of the challenges of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, Dwaf. We also welcome the move by government to engage in establishing a National Water Resources Infrastructure Agency to manage and develop our national water resources infrastructure for economic development and access to water for social needs.

There are many other programmes that government will roll out, such as water resources management. This is to ensure that the country’s water resources are protected, used, developed, conserved, managed and controlled in a sustainable and equitable manner to the benefit of all people.

May I also touch on forestry, which is also one of the programmes that is of utmost importance? In this programme, government undertakes to ensure the sustainable management of the department’s plantations and indigenous forests in order to realise their optimal social, environmental and economic benefits and to promote rural development through policy-making, regulation, facilitation and monitoring and evaluation. The IFP also urges government to endeavour to reduce incidents of veld, forest and mountain fires in line with the National Veld and Forest Fire Act through an implementation system and by publishing monthly reports.

Ngqongqoshe, laphayana ngasendaweni ebizwa nge-New Eersterus ngasePitoli abantu bakhona kuthe ekuhambeni kwesikhathi babhala incwadi yezikhalazo beyiqondise khona impela eMnyangweni. Isikhalo sabo kwabe kungamanzi. Udaba- ke ababekhala ngalo elokuthi uhulumeni wasekhaya wabanikeza amanzi ngamathange ayegcwele izimpethu okwaze kwadinga ukuthi bawachithe lawo manzi. Ekuhambeni kwesikhathi-ke uhulumeni wasekhaya wabanikeza amanzi kodwa bathi lawo manzi awanalusizo ngoba afika emini abantu besemsebenzini, bayaqambe bayafika akusekho manzi. Angazi-ke wena, Mama, ukuthi uzokwenzanjani. Ake uthi ukukhwathakhwathaza ubone ukuthi uMnyango ungabasiza kanjani laba bantu.

Sizosho-ke, siyi-IFP, ukuthi isabiwomali onikezwe sona asikhule njalo ngoba amanzi phela yinto esingeke sikwazi ukuphila ngaphandle kwayo. Umzwile naloya mame waseLimpopo oke wakhuluma wathi amaxoxo adlalela phakathi. Ngeke bawaphuze kodwa-ke ixoxo isele phela. Uma lingekho ixoxo emanzini kusho ukuthi awekho amanzi. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Minister, at or near a place called New Eersterus near Pretoria, the community once wrote a letter of grievance and addressed it directly to the department. They were complaining about water. Their main complaint was that the local government gave them tanks of water which were full of maggots which they ended up having to spill. After a while the local government delivered water for them, but that did not help them because water was delivered during the day when people were already at work and by the time they came back home there was no water. I do not know what you are going to do, Madam, but just try and make a plan for the department to see how they can assist these people.

As the IFP, we are saying that the budget allocated to you must always be increased because we cannot live without water. You also heard that woman from Limpopo who said that the frogs are playing inside the tanks. They cannot drink that water, but then a frog is a frog. If there is no frog in the water, it means there is no water. Thank you.]

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members, I believe that the history of mankind has been greatly influenced by the availability of water. The availability of clean, potable water was probably one of the most important deciding factors in the choice of human settlement and development.

In the semi-arid South Africa, water has probably played the defining role in our nation’s history. It is therefore not surprising to find that the right of access to a basic water supply and sanitation is a constitutional right which enables government to protect and promote the right to water for every individual.

Since 1994, one of the greatest challenges that government has faced has been to provide basic services and/or upgrade the inferior and rapidly declining infrastructure for the majority of South Africans. For many of these people, this infrastructure was either nonexistent or, at the most, very basic.

Furthermore, access to social and domestic infrastructure was restricted mainly to urban areas, and people in rural areas had few services. In 1994, only 20% of rural dwellers had access to electricity, 35% to clean water and 5% to adequate sanitation. Even in the urban areas, at least a fifth of households could not access these services. Besides the obvious benefits of receiving clean, safe water and sanitation, such service delivery also aims to improve the quality of life and contributes to poverty alleviation.

In this regard government has made significant progress since 1994. Access to piped water improved from 59% in 1994 to 86% in 2007, which implies that 71% of the backlog has been addressed well ahead of the Millennium Development Goals of halving the backlog by 2015. Furthermore, between April 2007 and March 2008, access to free basic water increased from 73% to 77%.

What is, however, of great concern to the select committee is, firstly, the problems encountered with the quality of water in the Delmas District Municipality, and more recently in the Ukhahlamba District Municipality, which has resulted in the deaths of several babies in the last three months.

Allow me at this time to thank the Free State department of Dwaf, namely Mr Ntili and his team, for their quick response to a request from their colleagues from the Eastern Cape for assistance with this incident.

The Ukhahlamba tragedy should never have happened. What is even more disturbing is the fact that when the portfolio committee in the NA called for public hearings and invited various municipalities to discuss these very important matters around water quality, two municipalities from the Free State did not even turn up for these hearings, thereby showing a total lack of concern and disregard for their responsibility towards the wellbeing of the citizens.

As most members in this House know, the most consistent problem raised by the community during our Taking Parliament to the People programme in Parys in the Free State, which, by the way, is one of the municipalities that did not turn up, was the poor quality of water. These complaints by the public were substantiated by the personal experience of the members. I therefore call upon the relevant Ministers, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, and the provincial MECs to immediately become involved to rectify this unacceptable attitude by certain municipalities who are at the coalface of delivery.

Secondly, what is of further concern is that, according to the Joint Budget Committee’s Third Quarter Expenditure Report for the 2007-2008 financial year published in the ATCs of 10 June 2008, it is reported in a review of capital expenditure that 18 departments spent less than 50% of their allocated budget by December 2007, of which the Dwaf has spent less than 20%, notwithstanding the fact that “water infrastructure leaves much to be desired”.

The report further indicated, and I quote:

Of the adjustment budget of R436 million, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry spent only R90 million …

That is 19%.

The department therefore looks like it is repeating the trend of underexpenditure for this category while there are many infrastructure, water and sanitation backlogs in communities.

I have been informed by Bloem Water Board, which is also the implementing agent for water projects in the Ukhahlamba District Municipality, that the current contract with this district municipality is to come to an end at the end of June 2008. To date, they have not been able to get the municipality to confirm whether or not they would like them to remain as service providers. The consequences of this delay could be that Bloem Water will be forced to leave, and the community will suffer again.

With regard to water quality, I am pleased to report that Bloem Water did not experience any water quality failures in the 2007-2008 financial year. This is contrary to adverse and false media coverage in this regard, especially by the Afrikaans media in the Free State where the DA actually had a field day. This is as a result of the existence of the water quality monitoring forum comprised of Mangaung Local Municipality and the Dwaf regional office in the Free State.

Chairperson, I still have a minute so I just want to respond to the hon Mr Watson.

Mnr Watson, waterbeperkings is nie ’n nuwe ding nie. Ons het dit selfs gedurende die apartheidsjare gehad. So ek weet nie waarom julle hier kom kla nie, want dit lyk vir my julle het ’n baie kort geheue. Ek dink die rede is seker omdat die DA nog ’n nat-agter-die- ore party is. [Tussenwerpsels.] Asseblief! Wees meer korrek met hierdie goed. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr Watson, water restrictions are nothing new. We even had them during the apartheid years. So I do not know why you have come here to complain, because it seems to me that you have a very short memory. I believe the reason is probably because the DA is still a greenhorn party. [Interjections.] Please! Be more correct with these things.]

Minister, the select committee supports your budget. Thank you very much.

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZAMANZI NAMAHLATHI: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Ngicela ukubonga amalungu ale Ndlu wonke ngokuthi azoxhasa lesi sabiwomali sezamanzi nezamahlathi. Ngizobuyela kuMnu uWatson kodwa ngifuna nje kengiqale ngomama Matlanyane ngithi ukhulume njengomzali ngempela. Singajabula ukuthi nabanye abangamalungu ale Ndlu benze lokhu okwenzayo ukuthi iqiniso ulisho, futhi nezinkinga lapho zikhona nazo uzibeke. Siyajabula ukuthi izingane zakho angeke ziphinde zilokhu zibalekelana futhi zixoshana nezingwenya ngoba uhulumeni kaKhongolose uwalethile amanzi njengoba ebeshilo ukuthi uzowaletha.

Okunye engikuthandile enkulumweni yakho yilo mlayezo okade siwukhuluma sisodwa, singuMnyango esifuna ukuthi nabanye abantu abafana nani basisize ukuthi siwusakaze, wokuthi leli zwe lethu iNingizimu Afrika yizwe lesomiso. Kufanele noma ngasiphi isikhathi uma sisebenzisa amanzi siwasebenzisa ngokuwonga, noma siyageza noma sigeza amazinyo noma siyawasha. Lento ekhulunywa umama lapha ukuthi sithi sesinifakele amapayipi azimele bese niwayeka amanzi axhaxhaze adlale izingane lokhu okungalungile, futhi anifuni ukuthi nitshelwe ngayo. Kubalulekile ukuthi abantu abafana namalungu ale Ndlu asisize ngoba siyakwenza bandla okusemandleni ethu thina singuMnyango ukuthi sisakaze lo myalezo yokongiwa kwamanzi. Siyadinga ukuthi nani nisisize.

Nimzwile-ke umama ethi bayafuna ukuthi amahhovisi ezinhlangano zepolitiki ezigceme asize ngendlela ezahlukene angase asize ngazo ukuthi kusabalale lo myalezo wokusebenzisa amanzi ngobuhlakani. Ngiyethemba ukuthi uMqondisi Jikelele woMnyango kanye nezikhulu zilalele futhi bazozama indlela yokuthi umyalezo ufinyelele kumalungu ale Ndlu, lesi sishayamthetho, ukuze akwazi ukusisiza ukusakaza umyalezo wokusebenzisa amanzi ngobuhlakani. Ngiwuzwile nomyalezo owushilo ukuthi kufanele abantu bafundiswe ngezifo zasemanzini. Konke-ke lokho sikuthathele izinyathelo singuMnyango. Sithi siyabonga kakhulu.

Uma ngibuyela lapha kuMnumzane wami we-DA, ubaba uWatson, ngitsheliwe ukuthi lezi zinto ozikhulumile azilona iqiniso, ikakhulukazi le ndawo okhuluma ngayo i-Nooitgedagt Dam. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, I would like to thank all the members of this House for coming to support this Budget Vote for Water Affairs and Forestry. I will go back to the hon Watson, but I want to start with the hon Matlanyane, by saying that you have spoken like a real parent. We would appreciate it if other members of this House could do as you do by telling the truth, and to point out problems if there are any. We are happy that your children will no longer be running away from or chasing crocodiles since the ANC-led government has supplied water as it has promised.

What I also liked in your speech is the message that we have been discussing alone as a department which we want other people like you to assist us in disseminating - that our country, South Africa, is a droughty country. We should at all times, whenever we use water, use it sparingly whether we are bathing, brushing teeth or washing clothes. What hon Matlanyane says here is that after we have installed tap water pipes for you, you then leave them leaking extensively; leaving children playing with them, which is really not right and you do not want to be told about that. It is important that people like the members of this House assist us because we, as the department, do our best in disseminating this message of saving water. We need your assistance.

You have heard the hon member saying that they want the constituency offices of political parties to assist in any way possible to disseminate this message of using water sparingly. I hope that the director-general of the department and the officials are listening and that they will find a way for this message to reach the members of this House, so that they are able to assist us in disseminating the message of using water sparingly. I have also heard your message that people should be taught about water diseases. We, as the department, have taken steps regarding all that. We say thank you.

If I can go back to my colleague, hon Watson, I am informed that these things you spoke about are not true, more especially in this area you are talking about, the Nooitgedacht Dam.]

In fact, I’m informed that this dam is one of the 42 dams that we, ourselves, identified as being a problem and which we are rehabilitating. The R1,2 billion is part of the money that will be used for the dam. This dam upgrading project is part of the Usuthu-Vaal integrated system that provides water to Gauteng and important industries such as Eskom and Sasol.

You said that studies were conducted and nothing was done. We did actually respond to a request from Eskom and other water users for a new supply of water to the Camden and Komati Power Stations.

You have attacked the integrity of the pipeline by saying that the pipe is not strong enough to withstand the volumes of water. My information is that the integrity of that pipeline is in order and that it is of the highest standard for supplying the required demand for water to the two power stations in Mpumalanga.

We, as a department … [Interjections.] Why is the water what?

Mr A WATSON: [Inaudible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Excuse me, hon Minister. Mr Watson, it’s unprocedural to ask questions whilst you are seated. If you want to put a question, please raise your hand and I’ll give you an opportunity to do so, and the Minister will respond.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Thank you, Chairperson. Really, I’m trying to give information so that people don’t repeat these things. He can say them if he doesn’t know, but once he knows, it’s different.

Nyamezela umamele. Nam ndinyamezele ngela xesha ubuthetha. [Be patient and listen. I did that when you were talking.]

As a department we have done an in-depth technical analysis of the pipeline to ensure that the required demand can be delivered to Eskom, and this we did in collaboration with them. So whatever it is you wanted to say about the pipeline is not correct. We have responded and we are upgrading it; it is all in order.

The pollution you mentioned regarding the area of Loskop is an issue of concern. As I said in my speech, pollution of whatever kind is not going to be tolerated, and we are tightening the screws. We are going to be taking a very strong stand on this matter.

We have taken steps to deal with municipalities that are polluting our water resources. I have issued them with notices. I have even gone personally to deliver some notices to some of the farmers and some of the municipalities, giving them 30 days to respond. We are going to take legal action as a department after that period has expired.

Coming to the pollution in Loskop Dam, it is the result of the acid mine drainage. As you said yourself, hon Watson, there are a lot of mining activities going on there.

We have just finished the refurbishment of the Brakspruit Treatment Works, which we hope will assist with alleviating the problems, because the water will then be purified before being discharged in that area. Furthermore, a new management contractor has been appointed and will be in place soon. This, we hope, will enhance the capacity in that area.

The hon Rev Moatshe, the chairperson of the committee, raised quite a few issues. I’d like to say to him that the issue of scarcity of water in the Northern Cape is an issue that we have looked at. We are currently busy …

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon Minister! Yes, hon Thetjeng?

Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson, I just want to put a question to the Minister on an issue which was raised by Ms Matlanyane. [Interjections.] Yes, I am asking that through you, Chairperson.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, after I have finished what I have to say. I have two minutes and 42 seconds, and I still have a few responses to make. Really, if the question is a burning one, we can talk about it outside.

Mr O M THETJENG: Yes, it’s a very burning question!

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: With regard to the Northern Cape, we are currently doing a feasibility study in relation to building a dam there. As the hon member said, water just runs off there and there is no way of capturing it. We are working with all the basin states, namely Lesotho, Botswana, South Africa and Namibia. We hope that this will be finalised towards the end of this year, and then the dam will probably be built after 2011. But the issue of water scarcity in the Northern Cape is something that we are very well-versed in.

We have noted the issues around Asgisa and the concern around the provision of water and sanitation services in schools and clinics. Hon members, you’ll remember that we missed our target of providing our schools with water and sanitation by 2005. We are working on a new target. However, let me say that progress has been made. There isn’t a clinic in South Africa without water and sanitation services; if you find one, please let me know.

There were 91 clinics that had no access to water whatsoever, and 110 that had absolutely nothing with regard to sanitation. By December 2007 we had dealt with those clinics. When we finished with those, we went back to look at those that had a less than satisfactory standard of service, those that were inadequately serviced. There were 256 of them in the whole country, and all of them have been upgraded.

We have something like five clinics that are being completed currently, but there’s no clinic in South Africa that doesn’t have water and sanitation services.

We have started with a few schools. Already we have provided 62 schools with sanitation services and 90 schools with water. The difficulty with schools was to get the information from the Department of Education that would tell us how many schools there were and the level of service available to them.

I think that the schools programme has been more challenging than the clinics programme. However, we are working on the problem with the Department of Education. I’m running out of time. I want to say that I have addressed in my speech the issue of the bucket eradication programme. I said that we have reached 94% completion countrywide and that there are three provinces that have experienced problems, and none of us could foresee them when we agreed on targets.

Regarding topography, the contractors have encountered rocky areas, and this has caused delays. In one instance the community said no to any alternative forms and insisted that they only wanted water-borne sanitation. So we are constructing the dam and we will be getting water. Although toilets and everything else have been built, you need infrastructure such as pipelines in order to bring water to the area.

Ngaphandle kwalokho, baba uMzizi, mayelana namanzi e-Eesterus, ngicabanga ukuthi into esesizokhuluma ngayo ngaphandle ngoba phela isikhathi sami sesiphelile. [Besides that, hon Mzizi, regarding water supply in New Eersterus, I think we can talk about it outside because my time is up.]

Regarding the quality of water, Mr Van Rooyen, I think I have explained what we are doing. For us as a department and as a government, it’s totally unacceptable that children should die, as happened at Ukhahlamba. There are many factors that contributed to those deaths, but we take responsibility for the fact that the water should, in the first place, not have been the cause of this diarrhoea.

We have taken all possible measures to be hands-on regarding the problem of Ukhahlamba. As I indicated, we have asked water boards to assist us, and we have also deployed people such as engineers and other people, who are looking at waste water treatment plants and operators. A whole lot of things are involved, but the department is intervening around the health and hygiene messages to assist the community to know how to deal with issues of sanitation, and all of that.

We have noted the issues that have been raised. Regarding the issue of underspending, I am unable to respond to it right now. However, all I know is that we have spent our money very well in this current financial year. If there’s an area where we underspent, it was an area where we were waiting for authorisation around the De Hoop Dam, as well as the issue of transferring staff to municipalities. Other than that, we have spent the money that was allocated to us and I hope that the budget you are approving for us today is going to go a long way towards bettering the lives of our people.

Ngiyabonga, Mhlalingaphambili. [Thank you, Chairperson.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 8: Public Service and Administration

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, hon members, officials and guests who are in the gallery, I want to say that I am honoured to stand before you this afternoon to participate in the policy debate on Budget Votes Nos 8, 9 and 10, which are outlined in the National Treasury’s Estimates of National Expenditure.

This particular occasion gives me an opportunity to give an account of the substantial work we have done in the portfolio in the past year, and to give an indication of the programmes and projects for which we intend utilising the funds to be voted for the current financial year. I look forward to this debate in the spirit of Danton’s audacity, and I want to say one does so in the spirit of “audacity, again audacity, and always audacity!”

We are at a particular point, as the President of the Republic said in the state of the nation address, and I would like to quote him:

Let me therefore make bold to say that this historical moment demands
that our nation should unite as never before, and strain every sinew of
its collective body to address our common challenges, and keep alive the
dream that has sustained all of us as we travelled along the uncharted
road towards the creation of the South Africa visualised in our
Constitution.

I would argue that this particular portfolio reflects that in a very real sense, and this portfolio initially consisted of three institutions. In 1999, when I was privileged to be appointed Minister, the Department of Public Service and Administration had been established three years before to support the Minister for the Public Service and Administration in revamping the policy framework. The Public Service Commission, in its current constitutional role of being directly accountable to the National Assembly as an independent monitor of Public Service delivery and personnel practices, had also been in existence for three years.

The SA Management Development Institute, Samdi, was established in 1999 to provide training especially for the upper echelons of the Public Service. These three institutions represent Votes No 8, 9 and 10 that I am debating with you today.

The portfolio has expanded over the last 10 years to respond to the specific needs that have arisen. The year 1999 saw the establishment of the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, which was created to consolidate the state’s IT interests in order to secure greater return on investment for government’s substantial expenditure on IT. The Minister for Public Service and Administration is the sole shareholder in Sita on behalf of government. In 2003, the Centre for Public Service Innovation was established as a facilitator for development and implementation of innovative practices. Following extensive research into the medical industry, the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, was created in 2005 to bring to public servants equitable access to affordable and comprehensive health care benefits.

Notwithstanding the diversity within the portfolio, what ties us together is our shared purpose and responsibility to transform the SA Public Service into a formidable and effective vehicle, capable of supporting the socioeconomic development that South Africa and her people need; a public administration capable of ensuring human safety and security to each and everyone and ensuring the dignified existence of all our people within a human rights framework. It should work in a trajectory of perpetual improvement and elevation for all and provide support for the poor in order to erase the sharp disparities that marked the livelihoods of the privileged and the underprivileged.

On 10 December 2008, the world will celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article one states and I quote:

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are
endowed with the reason and conscience ... and should act towards one
another in a spirit of brotherhood.

The UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, last year said, and I quote:

It is our duty to ensure that these rights are a living reality – that they are known, understood and enjoyed by everyone, everywhere. It is often those who most need their human rights protected who also need to be informed that the declaration exists – and that it exists for them.

The South African Constitution gives expression to the principles of the declaration in the Bill of Rights and section 10 of the Constitution states, and I quote:

Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.

Rights to equality, life, freedom and security of person, housing, healthcare, food, water, social security, education, information and just administrative action, amongst other things, are conferred upon people. This imposes a duty on the Public Service, as the administrative arm of the democratic government, to uphold the dignity of all the country’s people by ensuring the adequate and equitable provision of services and the progressive realisation of the rights contained in the Constitution. In the three terms of democratic governance since 1994, the Public Service has been transformed with a view to enabling it to radically improve service delivery to the people while strengthening good governance.

Now lest we forget, let me remind all of us again that the multiple Public Services of the apartheid state and Bantustans were rationalised into one Public Service for all the people of South Africa.

The Public Service policy was comprehensively revised through amendments to the Public Service Act and the promulgation of a streamlined, simplified set of Public Service regulations. The regulations allowed managers the discretion to manage the resources according to their unique circumstances within the framework of generally applicable norms and standards.

Let me continue and reflect on Samdi. Samdi has recently been reconstituted as a public sector academy for Public Service training. The new institution will be named the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, or Palama. In Sesotho it means “ascend” or “get aboard”. We will name the new building that Palama will occupy later in July the Z K Matthews Building.

The implementation of the new strategy for Palama is to move from being a competitive provider on a small scale to becoming a collaborative facilitator of large-scale provision. This will entail far more extensive change and a five-fold increase in the availability of training to the three spheres of government by the end of the next three years.

This change will be made possible through collaboration with provincial academies to facilitate the provision of training by a broad range of institutions and individuals within the Public Service, the higher education institutions, further education and training colleges and the private sector. In many instances, the academy will be engaging in training trainers rather than conducting the training themselves.

The planning for the massified induction programme that we have identified has been completed and trainers have been trained in selected national departments to ensure that sufficient capacity is created for the roll-out of the programme. A total of 304 trainers have been trained in the provinces and the roll-out will be monitored and evaluated on a regular basis in order to ensure that problems experienced during the implementation are identified timeously and that corrective steps are effected.

I have issued a directive making the Massified Induction Programme compulsory for all new public servants. Successful completion of the induction course is now a precondition for the confirmation of probation of new incumbents to the Public Service. Heads of departments have the responsibility to ensure that systems and processes are in place for the successful implementation of the induction programme.

Another area of massification is capacity-building on monitoring and evaluation. There is a range of courses being offered. It is envisaged that Public Service officials will be able to specialise in monitoring and evaluation at various levels, from certificates to diplomas, through to Bachelor’s, Honours, Master’s and doctoral degrees.

On the Public Service Commission, we are all aware that it has been created constitutionally. Annually, since 2002, the commission has compiled and tabled reports in Parliament on the status of the Public Service. These reports consolidate a number of reports on various areas, which include financial misconduct, anticorruption, professional ethics, conflict of interest, Batho Pele principles and citizens’ satisfaction surveys.

The commission also applies its transversal Public Service monitoring and evaluation system annually to sample departments to assess their quality of administration. Since the inception of the system, 75 departments were evaluated at national and provincial levels. Since 2000, the PSC has been involved in the facilitation of the evaluation of performance of heads of departments. Through this process, heads of departments are held accountable for the implementation of government programmes. They also established the national anticorruption hotline in 2004, and over 3 666 cases have been referred to government departments for processing.

I would like to use this opportunity to thank the Public Service Commission, the Chairperson, Prof Sangweni, the commissioners and the office of the PSC for a job well done.

In line with the need for compliance with the regulatory frameworks, which includes the requirement for Public Service and local government managers to enter into performance agreements with their supervisors, our assessment has been that compliance has been unacceptably low. Consequently, the President announced in the state of the nation address in February this year that this project should be one of the 24 Apex Projects.

Project 15, as it is known, also deals with the filling of vacancies in top management positions in the Public Service and local government. Penalties have been applied on managers who failed to entered into a performance agreement with their supervisors and those who do not comply will not qualify for any performance incentive, including pay progression. Maybe this is something you would like to monitor as you work in your provinces. On the Public Service Amendment Act of 2007, this legislation requires that Ministers and MECs take disciplinary action against heads of departments who breach the regulatory framework. It similarly requires that these heads take action against officials who fail to comply with the prescripts.

The legislation also strengthens the Public Service Commission’s authority and establishes a collaborative relationship between the PSC and the Office of the Auditor–General.

The Public Administration Management Bill has recently been tabled before Parliament, and essentially this Bill is to ensure that we establish a single, integrated, normative framework that would allow for optimal alignment between systems, policy priorities and organisational cultures so that government could function as a single Public Service, where citizens would reap the benefits of receiving their services under a single and unified framework.

On ICT services, I’d want to state that the next-generation e-government programme is an integral part of the access strategy of government and it will be implemented in phases, starting with the e-enablement of six services, that is, an application for an ID, a child birth certificate, foster grants, pensions, maintenance and notification of death.

A programme management office has been established to ensure the roll-out of this programme. The Office of the Government Chief Information Officer, OGCIO, located in the Department of Public Service and Administration, will also conduct three reviews focusing on Sita’s performance, government call centres and Information Communication Technology, ICT procurement expenditure. The results will be made known later this year and will be used to further strengthen the implementation of the next generation of e- government.

In terms of our Batho Pele thrust, earlier this year the Know Your Service Rights Campaign was launched which is an important pillar of Batho Pele revitalisation. A booklet, to be translated in all official languages, will be distributed to all service delivery points of social cluster departments and the Thusong centres across the country. I am sure that many of you have noted that the President launched the 100th Thusong centre at Inhlazuka recently. On that occasion, he said, and I quote:

All of us know very well that information is power. Those who have information can use it the way they want, especially if the rest of the people do not have the information. So, let us use this centre to empower ourselves with information and knowledge about everything that government is doing, as well as the services that are due to our communities.

The Community Development Workers Programme, CDW, is another important programme to ensure that we reach people where they live. It was launched in 2003. We intend to employ an additional 4 000 CDWs in the next three years in addition to the 3 000 already deployed.

Recently in Limpopo a new cohort of fully trained CDWs graduated from the University of Venda. Speaking at the graduation ceremony at Thohoyandou, Premier Moloto gave this message to the graduates, and I quote:

Go to the people; live among the people; learn from the people; plan with the people; work with the people; be honest with the people; start with what the people know; build on what the people have; teach by showing and never run away from challenges.

These words capture very well the nature of the task facing community development workers in South Africa.

The CDWs who received their national certificates in community development were from five provincial districts, namely the Vhembe, Capricorn, Mopani, Sekhukhune and Waterberg districts.

Regarding this Centre for Public Service Innovation, we know that the awards have become an important vehicle for entrenching excellence in the delivery of public services by recognising innovative projects and initiatives around the country, especially in the provinces.

The 2007 Innovator of the Year award was shared between two provincial departments, namely the Port Elizabeth Department of Justice and Constitutional Development office in the Eastern Cape, led by Adv Klaasen, and the Mpumalanga provincial eye care programme, led by Dr Varghese. Adv Klaasen introduced an electronic case flow management system, which enabled them to reduce their turnaround time for custody and access disputes investigated in the office from a national target of 24 weeks, or six months, to an average of 10,6 weeks.

The doctor, whose surname I didn’t pronounce too well, single-handedly initiated the eye care programme in Mpumalanga province in 1994. This must be lauded. The Centre for Public Service Innovation, OGCIO, is also a partner and online regional centre for the United Nations’ public administration network. You can read more on that in the documented, more detailed speech which you should see as an extension of this.

We have also acceded to the African Peer Review Mechanism, APRM, on 9 March 2003 in Abuja, and I think we can now say that we are ready to present our second report to the forum when its next meeting takes place and this item is on the agenda. In the report we reflect on both our progress and our challenges. One of the issues that we should raise is that the APRM report did identify the potential challenge of xenophobic violence. This is a matter that we have seen through the pockets of the intracommunity xenophobic violence that have taken place in our country. We, however, have also seen responses. To this end I am also able to give you the SMS number that has been set up - it is 36282 -for public servants and members of the public to send messages and to commit R5,00 for the reintegration of people who have been displaced.

Regarding the anticorruption capacity-building programme, which will be implemented this year, the aim of the programme is to strengthen competencies to prevent, detect, investigate, prosecute and monitor corruption by law enforcement officials, anticorruption practitioners and public officials. We do a fair amount of work on the African continent, and there is much to be spoken about but no time to cover it all today.

I want to state that our work is still going well in the Democratic Republic of Congo and in other countries with whom we have bilateral relations. You can find out more about that in the written document.

I want to go on and look at the area of personnel expenditure. Resolution 1 of 2007 states very clearly that, for 2008, the cost of living adjustment will be National Treasury’s forecast for the Consumer Price Index for the fiscal year 2008-2009 plus 1%. To this end, we have announced an increase of 10,5% for the cost of living adjustment for this year.

In the event that the actual inflation figure is lower than the projected inflation, the difference will be added in 2009. So we intend applying and sticking to both the letter and the spirit of Resolution 1 of 2007.

There’s much to be said around the occupational-specific dispensation, OSD, and I would like to indicate that we have implemented all those as required by the agreement. The development and implementation of the OSD for social workers, health professionals and correctional officials will be undertaken in this current year.

Let’s talk about the gem in our crown. The gem in our crown is the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems. This year, Gems’ membership has grown by 256 000, covering more than 600 000 people. It is now the largest restricted medical scheme in the country, and member growth consistently exceeds 500 applications per day. It is significantly more than 53% of the employees who did not previously enjoy access to a medical scheme subsidy provided by government who have enrolled as members. In this province, the Western Cape province, almost 40% of Public Service employees are Gems members. This is something we should really laud.

The 2007 negotiations highlighted a number of challenges. In this regard there was clearly a need, identified and captured in Resolution 1 of 2007, that we should have a public sector summit. This summit will be held in September 2008. Unions have identified underlying concerns to be addressed, such as outsourcing, agentisation, minimum wages, resourcing of the Public Service and the working environment of public servants.

We have also indicated that in addition to those issues, as an employer, we would like to engage unions on the performance and productivity of the Public Service, which we see as critical.

We have achieved much of which we can be proud. We have prepared the terrain, often painstakingly, for endeavours that will only pay off in years to come. Some of our endeavours are already established and are bearing fruit, but both in this portfolio and across the broad terrain of government there have been tremendous successes and we look forward to even more.

In conclusion, I’d like to do two things. Firstly I want to commend and thank all the public servants that have selflessly engaged in endeavours to make the change required. I’d like to thank the directors-general, the chairs of the various entities, the boards and all teams across the portfolio of Public Service and Administration for the work they have done.

As in many instances, I still say that we still have some more ground to cover. We will and should respond to the call by the President that we will stretch every sinew, and I think on 18 June, it being his birthday, we say that we make this commitment not only to the President of the Republic, but also to the people of the Republic of South Africa, to the people of our region and to the people of the world. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr D A WORTH: Chairperson, hon Ministers present and hon members, firstly I would like to thank the Director-General, Dr Levin, and his department for the briefing given to our committee. The Minister has just concluded what I consider a very good annual salary increase for the public servants, and in a lighter vein I would suggest we ask the Minister to negotiate the increases for us poor Members of Parliament. [Laughter.]

The aim of the Department of Public Service and Administration is to lead the modernisation of the Public Service by assisting government departments to implement their management policies and systems and structural solutions within a generally applicable framework of norms and standards in order to improve service delivery.

We must all agree that access to quality government services is an important weapon in the fight against poverty. The Minister has already tabled the Public Administration Bill in the National Assembly and, if passed, we will see the introduction of a single Public Service. The Public Service is, I must add, the biggest employer in the country and employs over a million people.

According to the Public Service Commission, PSC, Report, one of the eight Batho Pele Principles is the principle of value for money. This principle states:

Public services should be provided economically and sufficiently in order to give citizens the best possible value for money.

The Batho Pele White Paper states:

… a transformed South African Public Service will be judged by one criterion above all: its effectiveness in delivering services which meet the basic needs of all South African citizens.

The Public Service Commission Report also highlights misconduct in the Public Service; the most common cases being absenteeism, dishonesty, poor performance, sexual assault and the misuse of state vehicles, amongst other things.

Human resource constraints and skills shortages are problems that are mentioned often. These shortages cause many problems and present a significant obstacle to service delivery, such as ever-increasing staff mobility resulting in a high turnover that affects a range of jobs from the most senior positions to the frontline departments, causing scarce skills to be used inefficiently such as social workers, nurses and doctors having to do unnecessary administration work; and catastrophic failure due to inadequate quality, quantity or timing of delivery in sectors such as health and social development.

It was noted in the PSC report that there was a general lack of accountability in the Public Service. Many officials commented that poor or even a complete lack of performance is rewarded in the same way that good performance is rewarded. What makes matters worse is that high performance is often rewarded through increased responsibilities with no proportional benefits, which is unfair and demoralising.

The Department of Provincial and Local Government has stated, for instance, that only 73% of municipal managers have signed a performance contract; the others refused for various reasons. We have taken note of what the Minister said and I am very pleased to hear that and we will be watching the situation carefully.

Have you ever read or heard of a head of department or municipal manager not being paid his or her bonus because of poor or underperformance? The bonus is merely regarded as part of the salary package despite half the municipalities, for example, not performing or being riddled with corruption. Personnel convicted of fraud or corruption just simply apply for work in another state department. The Minister’s department has stated that the masses of the people must be guaranteed the same level of service wherever they interact with government, be it at local, provincial or national level. The department states that inherent in the Single Public Service is a programme to ensure that the best and brightest are attracted and retained; that there is efficient use of technology which is simple to use with procedures; and to instil a pride in them for working for the people. Most of these remained major challenges under the Single Public Service and surely it would be better to expand and improve those silos or areas of excellence, rather than to reduce everything to a poor common denominator.

The new legislation seeks to create a new single pension and medical aid for all levels of government. The DA, along with a number of unions, believes that this will affect the members’ existing rights and benefits as well as their right to voluntary association. Secondly, the legislation seeks to create a uniform salary structure across all levels of government, the cost-effectiveness of which remains unknown.

The proposed Single Public Service Bill will also empower the Minister to set norms and standards on a wide range of personnel and public administration practices, which in essence centralises power and enables the ANC to force its own policies on local government. Local elections would become irrelevant as city officials would now be controlled by government policy at a national level. It is clear that the Public Service is in disarray and is failing to deliver the benefits and basic services voters are entitled to. Drastic changes need to be made, but the DA firmly believes that the Single Public Service is not the solution. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr S SHICEKA: I want to add my voice to those who have congratulated the President on his 66th birthday today.

Chairperson, the Minister, colleagues, comrades and friends, today I am standing in front of you to present our views, our reflections, on the department, for the last time in this Third Parliament. This input will reflect on the four years that I have been deployed to lead this committee and raise issues which I think those who follow in my footsteps will be able to take forward as we move ahead.

The ANC as an organisation has placed a supreme priority on the Public Service as it knows that the lives of the people can only be improved if this delivery arm is accountable, transparent, efficient and effective. The Public Service at all levels of government and at all centres of administration is transformed in ways that ensures adequate capacity and skills promoting vision and creativity are in place.

The Department of Public Service and Administration is the department in government that is leading the modernisation of government to ensure that this government is responsive to the needs of our people. This department must make sure that it utilises the ICT methods in the delivery of services to our people.

In South Africa today there is no economic centre of activity that is without electricity. This means, in essence, that all government departments are supposed to have at least a computer to provide services. However, in Flagstaff, emaMpondweni, in Cala and eNgcobo, there is no computer for the Department of Home Affairs.

This means people do not have access to important government documents that will ensure that their lives are improved. We believe that the department must ensure that these basic necessities are in place. When we mention ICT, we are talking about something that has to be done and implemented so that when a child is looking for a birth certificate, they will be able to find it.

When we are looking for the needs that must be met in that area, there must be access. We commend the department for the development and implementation of the community development workers, CDWs. This initiative is aimed at enhancing the implementation of Batho Pele principles, particularly access to services for our people. The CDWs are pivotal to bringing government closer to the people and ensuring participative democracy.

We think that this programme should be rolled out in all wards across the length and breadth of our country. At the same time, hon Minister, we believe that there must be national norms and standards. It must not be a free-for-all provinces as is happening now in terms of what has to be there. In addition to that, the resourcing of the structures should be similar.

One of the major things that we are excited about is that the CDWs are going to be able to have access to laptops so that, wherever they are, they are able to ensure that information is accessed. At this point that has not been achieved in some areas and we believe that it has to be dealt with because it is a good concept and it is a good idea. It must therefore be implemented in a way that takes our country forward in that respect.

We, as the committee, are confident about the future of the Public Service

• a Public Service that is conscious of our people, a Public Service that responds to the needs of the people, a Public Service that has zeal, passion and commitment. The majority of the public services in South Africa are based in provinces and that is why the Bills are always tagged as being section 76 Bills. Therefore we believe that the provinces must play a role in assisting the national government in their attainment of the national objectives, particularly around the issue of political oversight. We believe that provinces are not playing that role sufficiently. Great strides have been made in the transformation of the Public Service, particularly around representativity and the issue of middle management. But we believe that there is still a lot that needs to be achieved around the issue of representativity, particularly of women and people with disabilities.

We hope that the goals of 2009 of having 50% women’s representativity will be achieved. We hope that when you respond you will tell us how far we are at this point because March 2009 is around the corner; it’s not far from now. The 2% target for people with disabilities must be achieved by 2010 and we hope that you will be able to assist us by telling us where we are with this.

The fight against corruption, which has been led vigorously by the Minister, is one of the flagships of this government. The zero tolerance that has been shown by the ANC-led government has paid dividends. Over 80% of corrupt activities that have been identified have been exposed by our systems and not by any other person. It’s we who are dealing with this corruption because we believe that corruption has no role in our place. However, we believe that the issue of disclosures around financial interests is an area that is a challenge. It’s an area where we believe an improvement has to be made. It is an area in which we believe executive authorities must take responsibility, and take charge of it because this issue is an issue that can cause some blurring of lines in terms of what needs to be done.

These disclosures, colleagues, are about looking at registerable interests and must be disclosed by the senior management service. They cover these areas: shares and other financial interests in private and public companies and other corporate entities recognised by law. The other area is directorships and partnerships, remunerated work outside the Public Service, consultancies and retainerships, sponsorships, gifts and hospitality from a source other than a family member and other ownerships of and interests in land, property, whether inside or outside the Republic of South Africa.

The implementation of this financial disclosure of interest was started in

1. These disclosures have shown that there are some challenges that have to be dealt with. For instance, in the Eastern Cape, Northern Cape and the Free State, less than 50% of disclosures were submitted but in North West there was 100% compliance in that province. The Department of Health has only submitted once since 2000. This means they’ve only submitted once in an 8-year period. The Department of Housing only submitted these financial disclosures twice.

We believe that this situation needs to be improved. The Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, the Department of Public Service and the Department of Transport submitted 100% of disclosures last year. The Treasury and the Department Safety and Security have also submitted 100% of disclosures in the last two years.

We don’t see your department, hon Minister, in this issue. We believe that as the department that is leading this process, it must lead by example. It must ensure that these matters are dealt with. We hope that these matters will be addressed.

I want to conclude by saying thank you to the team that we’ve worked with over this period under difficult circumstances. I would also like to thank the department for co-operating with us in dealing with the issues, the staff for their commitment and dedication and, of course, my family. Thank you.

Mr A L MOSEKI: Modulasetulo, mme Matlhoahela o a bo a ntshwenya mme ga ke batle gore a ntshwenye. [Chairperson, Ms Matlhoahela is disturbing me and I don’t like what she does.]

Comrade Minister, Comrade Sibiya and colleagues, we are debating Budget Vote No 8, and this Budget Vote, as the Minister and the chairperson of the committee said, is a tool that must be used by the department to ensure that it executes its transversal responsibilities.

Selo santlha se re tshwanetseng go se bua ke gore ka Sedimonthole 2007 lekoko la ANC le kopane kwa Limpopo kwa Polokwane go buisana. Mo dipuisanong le ditshweetso tse lekgotla le le ditsereng ke gore re tsena mo kgatong ya bobedi ya dingwaga di le someamabedi tsa kgololosego ya Aforika Borwa. Kgwetlho e re lebaganeng le yona ke gore re natlafatse temokerasi ya rona e e golang. Potso ke gore re dira eng fa re natlafatsa temokerasi ya rona le gore re dirisa didiriswa dife?

Selo santlha fa re natlafatsa temokerasi ya rona ke go nna le badiredipuso ba ba nang le lerato le boineelo mo setšhabeng sa bona; e bile ba na le bokgoni. Selo se, se botlhokwa ka gonne batho ba rona ba lebeletse badiredipuso le puso go tlisa ditirelo tse di maleba tse ba di solofetseng.

Mo kopanong e re neng re e tshwere le puso, e eteletswe pele ke mokaedi- kakaretso wa lefapha, sengwe se se tlhageletseng le fa re ne re engwe ka lefoko ke Khomišene ya Ditirelo tsa Botlhe [Public Service Commission] ke gore ka ngwaga wa 2000 Kabinete e amogetse letlhomeso la go tlhotlhwafatsa ditlhogo tsa mafapha ngwaga le ngwaga. Mo ngwageng wa ntlha fa letlhomeso le tsenngwa tirisong le ne la atlega thata ka gonne 80% tsa ditlhogo tsa mafapha di ne tsa itlhagisa gore di tlhotlhwafatswe. E ke pegelo e re e boneng gotswa go PSC. Dingwaga tse di latetseng ngwaga wa 2002 go bonagetse phokotsego mo go itlhagiseng ga go tlhotlhwafatswa.

Ka 2004-05 go ne ga oketsega go se kae mme morago ga foo ga fokotsega gape. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[The first thing we should mention is that, during December 2007, the ANC converged on Polokwane in Limpopo for discussions. During the discussions at the conference, it was resolved that South Africa has entered its second decade of freedom. The challenge facing us is to strengthen our young democracy. The question is: What is it that we are doing in the effort to strengthen our democracy and what kind of mechanisms are we going to put in place?

The first thing to embark on in an effort to strengthen our democracy is to have public servants who are passionate about as well as dedicated to their nation. This is important, because our people depend on public servants and the government for service delivery.

During the meeting with the government, led by the director-general of the department, one of the points raised during a presentation by the Public Service Commission was that, during the year 2000, Cabinet approved the performance evaluation of the heads of departments framework, which was supposed to be conducted annually. The first year it was successfully implemented, because 80% of the departmental heads availed themselves for performance evaluation. This is according to the report received from the PSC. After the year 2002 the number of departmental heads who availed themselves for evaluation decreased.

There was a slight improvement in the year 2004-05, and later, a decline.]

By the time of the briefing on this report, it was quite clear that only 29% of the heads of departments had availed themselves for evaluation. That was in March or April. Clearly, if we are to have a Public Service cadreship that is able to deliver service as expected by our people, the Public Service must be able to submit the public servants for scrutiny and evaluation so that we can identify gaps in terms of service delivery, capacity and, over and above that, are able to develop the proper strategies to ensure that gaps are closed. If that does not happen we will have problems.

One of the problems that we identified from that report is that it would appear the executive authorities seem not to be hands-on with regard to ensuring that heads of departments avail themselves for evaluation. We therefore, Minister, want to suggest to you as a committee that the executive authorities should begin to be hands-on around these issues so that, by the end of the day, when we are held accountable as government, the machinery at the forefront of ensuring quality service is delivered should be adhering to the norms and standards as set by our government.

Having said this, the area I was requested to focus on is that the Public Service in turn tells us that the Single Public Service Bill before us appears as if it is going to add more responsibilities to its workers once passed. Therefore, it is important for government to ensure that the planning takes into account those challenges once this Bill has been enacted in order to capacitate the Public Service in terms of personnel, so that when the local government workers are incorporated into the broader Public Service and become part of the Public Service, they will be sufficiently catered for as the PSC continues to do its work.

With those few words we want to take this opportunity to thank the department for having done what it said it would do when it presented its strategic plan in the year 2006-2007. With the challenges that still remain we are satisfied that the department is moving in the right direction. The select committee therefore supports the Vote as presented to us. Thank you. [Applause.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Chairperson, I will begin with a quote from something that appeared in ANC Today four years ago. It said:

The scarcity of skills in the Public Service is an issue we need to debate. We need to review the competency in our Public Service if we are to ensure effective service delivery.

On page 275 of the recent African Peer Review Mechanism it says that South Africa suffers from a severe skills shortage. It then mentions that this shortage is most acute at the provincial and local government levels where delivery of basic goods and services is paramount.

Volgens onlangse berigte is daar vakatures in 10,4% van die 390 000 staatsdepartemente se poste. Dit wil sê daar is 40 000 vakatures. Die grootste vraag is na top vaardighede. Een uit elke agt poste vir hoogs vaardige mense is vakant. Dit bring ons by so 12,5% en dit is tans 200 meer as twee jaar gelede.

Die Weskaapse Minister van Vervoer en Openbare Werke het verlede jaar ongeveer hierdie tyd gesê dat daar ’n 3-jaar moratorium geplaas moet word op regstellende asksie in beroepe waar daar tekorte in bepaalde vaardighede ontwikkel.

’n Tydjie gelede het die Vryheidsfront Plus ’n SA Talentprojek saamgestel. Daar is mense wat gewillig en bereid is en wat oor bepaalde vaardighede beskik, wat gewillig en gretig is om behulpsaam te wees waar daar tekortes bestaan. Vir hierdie talentprojek wat die Vryheidsfront geinisieer het, is daar 1 800 name, wat 143 ingeneurs, 92 MBAs, en 43 PhDs insluit. Ek wil graag hierdie talent aan die Minister oorhandig, as sy ernstig is om die tekorte uit die weg te ruim. En ek glo sy is - want dit is in almal se belang om ’n doeltreffende, diensvaardige staatsdiens te hê – en dat sy werklikwaar erns sal maak daarmee en kyk watter van die name op hierdie spesifieke SA Talentprogramlys sy kan gebruik.

Hier is ook ander kollegas wat verwys het na die gebrek aan dienslewering, ook in regeringsgeledere. Ons wil graag ’n bydrae lewer en ek sal so in die verbygaan, met u toestemming, die SA Talentprojek aan die agb Minister oorhandig. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[According to recent reports there are vacancies in 10,4% of the 390 000 posts in government departments. This means that there are 40 000 vacancies. The biggest demand is for Apex skills. One out of every eight posts for highly skilled persons is vacant. This brings us to about 12,5% and it presently exceeds the number of two years ago by 200.

The Western Cape MEC for Transport and Public Works about this time last year said that a 3-year moratorium must be placed on affirmative action in occupations where specific skills shortages have developed.

Some time ago the Freedom Front compiled a South African Talent project. There are persons with specific skills, who are willing and keen to assist where shortages exist. This talent project, which was initiated by the Freedom Front Plus consists of 1 800 names which include 143 engineers, 92 persons with MBAs, and 43 persons with PhDs. I would like to hand over this list of talented people to the Minister, if she is serious about eradicating the shortages. And I believe she is – because it is in the interest of everyone to have an effective, helpful Public Service - and that she really means business and will determine who on this specific list of talented people in South Africa she can utilise. Here are other colleagues who have also referred to the lack of service delivery, also in government ranks. We would gladly make a contribution and I will in passing, with your consent, hand over the SA Talent project to the hon Minister. Thank you very much.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Thank you, Chairperson. In supporting the budget of this department, one has to look back to find out what the function of this department is. I would not be far off by saying: Die appel val nie ver van die boom af nie. [The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.]

This is the department that is assisting government departments to implement their management policies, systems and structural solutions within the generally applicable framework of norms and standards in order to improve service delivery.

The other engagement of this department is to improve the service delivery of national and provincial departments by providing technical and other assistance to all national and provincial departments in order for them to develop their service delivery improvement plans.

The other important responsibility is the promotion of the regulation of administration and employment matters in all three spheres of government by tabling the Single Public Service Bill with the hope to develop implementation plans by March 2009. Lokhu kusho ukuthi kuyodinga silinde kuze kwedlule uMashi 2009 ngaphambi kokuthi kubonakale impumelelo. Sesiyoyephula ivuthiwe uma sekufike leso sikhathi. [This means that we will see progress after March 2009. We will see when that time comes.]

The IFP welcomes the move by the department to improve governance and public administration in order to improve service delivery in Africa and other participating countries worldwide. This is in support of the vision of efficiency and increased public participation in governance by fighting corruption and carrying out participatory monitoring. Did I say it right? Fighting corruption!

Angikugcizelele lokhu. Ngqongqoshe, ukulwa nenkohlakalo kusho ukulwa nenkohlakalo kuzo zonke izikhungo zikahulumeni nangaphandle kanye nasezweni lonke ngokubanzi esifundeni saseNingizimu ne-Afrika. Lokho sekuyosho ukuthi i-Southern African Development Community, i-SADC, namanye amazwe sebeyofikelela endaweni lapho sebeyothi sebefikile eKhanana ngoba inkohlakalo iyobe isiphelile. Izinto eziningi zoniwe inkohlakalo. Uma singalwa siyinqobe leyo mpi, siyobe sinqobe impi enkulu impela uma ngabe inkohlakalo ingasuka. Iye ithi into iyinhle bese yoniwa yinkohlakalo. Sikufisela inhlahla-ke, Ngqongqoshe, uma ngabe nawe uzoba ngomunye wabazobuya kuloya nyaka ozayo ngoba phela asilindele ukuthi sisazobuya. Uyabona sesibadala phela ngakho kungenzeka kuthiwe asithathe umhlalaphansi. Kungenzeka nalokho, akuyona into esiyibalekelayo kodwa-ke uma unganqoba lokhu singakahlali phansi, Ngqongqoshe, sesiyohlala phansi sakhe umkhanya sithi sebengalona izwe ngenkohlakalo kodwa thina siye sayichitha inkohlakalo. Imali abakunikeze yona sengathi ungayisebenzisa ngendlela, uthuthuke bese kuphela inkohlakalo. Siyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Let me emphasise this, hon Minister: fighting corruption means to fight it in every form, in government institutions, outside government institutions, throughout the whole country as well as in the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region. And this means that SADC and other countries will reach a stage where they will realise that they have reached Canaan after corruption has been rooted out. Most issues were spoiled by corruption. If we can fight and win that war, we would have won a major battle indeed if corruption could be done away with. Good things are always spoiled by corruption. We then wish you good luck, hon Minister, if you are going to be deployed back here next year, because we do not expect to come back. Look, as elderly people, we are likely to be directed to retire. That is possible and we cannot run away from it. But, hon Minister, if you can conquer this before we retire, we would rest and look on and say: they could have destroyed this country through corruption if it hadn’t been for us who got rid of corruption. May you use the money allocated to you correctly, develop and then do away with corruption. Thank you.]

Mr N J MACK: Thank you, Chairperson. Surely, there was something wrong because hon Mzizi’s name does not appear there. When I got here and I saw it was four minutes, I knew it could not be me. Four minutes could never be me or the ANC!

Hon Minister, members, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, it is quite nice to participate in this debate. I had a very calm speech prepared, but let me first start with the hon van Heerden.

Agb van Heerden, ek is bly die VF Plus het ook destyds vir die President ’n paar name gegee. Ons was oop daarvoor en die President het gebruik gemaak daarvan. Ons het die mense ingebring en ons het dit waardeer.

Ek is bly om te sien dat u my ‘n paar weke terug aangehaal het en u het ’n baie goeie toespraak gelewer. Ek sien u haal weer vandag die ANC Today aan. So u verbeter; u verbeter al die tyd, maar daar is een ding waarmee ek net ’n bietjie met u wil verskil. Dit is nie altyd te sê dat mense wat grade het, altyd goeie werk lewer nie. Ek sien u lê baie klem op gegradueerdes wat daar buite sit. Reg, maar daar is ook gegradueerdes vandag in departemente, en ons as die ANC is ook nie skaam om dit te sê nie, wat lui is en nie hul werk doen nie.

Ons moet dus versigtig wees om nie net te fokus op gegradueerders nie. Daar is gewone mense wat nie grade het nie, maar wat geleerdheid het en wat opleibaar is en wat die verbindtenis het om goeie werk te doen. Baie van ons ouers, selfs my ouers, het nie ‘n hoë geleerdheid gehad nie, maar hulle het darem toegesien dat hul kinders ’n toekoms het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Van Heerden, I am pleased to see that the FF Plus has also submitted a few names to the President in the past. We were open to it and the President made use of it. We brought the people forward and we were appreciative of this.

I am pleased to see that you quoted me a few weeks back and that you delivered a very good speech then. I notice that you are once again quoting from the ANC Today. So you are improving; you are improving all the time, but there is one point on which I would like to differ you. It is not always the case that people who have degrees are always producing good work. I notice that you are placing a lot of emphasis on graduates who are unemployed. And rightly so, but there are also graduates in our departments today - and we, as the ANC, are not ashamed to say this - who are lazy and who are not performing.

We must therefore guard against focusing on graduates only. There are ordinary people who do not have degrees, but have acquired learning, are trainable and have the commitment to produce good work. Many of our parents, mine included, did not have higher learning but they managed to ensure a future for their children.]

The ANC’s anchor policy statements in the people’s Freedom Charter, the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, all the state of the nation addresses, January 8 Statements, etc, encourage and emphasise transformation. We want to ensure that all levels of government are reformed. We want to ensure adequate capacity and skills through which our programme of developing previously neglected communities can be transformed in order to improve the quality of life of all our people.

As the ANC, we are realistic about the difficult road that we have to navigate to achieve these objectives. I recall, hon Minister, what you said during last year’s Budget Vote in the National Assembly, and I quote:

The Ministry of Public Services and Administration is a complex and a broad portfolio. It contains two full government departments and then the Department of Public Service and Administration and the South African Management Development Institute.

The SA Management Development Institute, Samdi, is now the Public Administration Leadership and Management Academy, Palama. Under Samdi you have a whole range of organisations: Sita, the Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, and the Government Employee Medical Scheme, Gems. I have just one question about Palama and Samdi, and the whole massification programme. I just want you to ensure and give us the assurance that quality does not go down as usual when we do massification programmes.

No one can deny that being at the helm of those entities is indeed a demanding job. We note that since 1999, along with the ANC policy to ensure an appropriately developed and cared-for corps of civil servants – we must care for our civil servants – the department has designed Programme 2, which focuses on human resource management and development purpose, which in turn focuses on the task to develop and implement an integrated strategy, monitored employment practices, contract human resources planning and diversity management and improve the health and wellbeing of our Public Service employees.

I have to skip over parts of my speech as previous speakers have already alluded to these things. One of these is that apart from the achievements, we are also facing many challenges. We are operating in a country marked by huge inequalities between our people. We are still faced with strong divides between urban and rural, rich and poor, male and female, white and black, literate and illiterate. We also experience gatekeepers in the process of the realisation of a better life for all. These gatekeepers cannot be tolerated within and outside the Public Service. I will come to this.

I have a very important thing, Minister, which I need to bring to your attention. There is a great concern regarding qualified audit opinions. The number of qualified audit opinions for national departments increased from seven departments in 2004-2005 to twelve in 2006-2007. In the case of provincial departments, although the number of qualified opinions decreased from 64 to 51 in 2006-2007, the rate of the decrease is still not good enough and confirms that too many departments are not meeting the required standards. What is more worrying is that some of these departments have actually been receiving qualified audit opinions for the last four years, and I think that is our concern.

On the issue of Batho Pele and the issue of value for money that was raised by the hon Darrel Worth, let me tell you about Batho Pele.

Batho Pele op die platteland waarvandaan ek kom - Beaufort-Wes, Sentraal Karoo, die Presidensiële node, onder die armste mense van die armstes - is daar groot sukses. Daar is ’n paar probleme, maar ek kan vir u voorbeelde uitwys wat ek self ervaar het. My eie kind se identiteitsdokument het ek binne veertien dae gekry.

Prince Albert, ’n plattelandse dorpie, wat my kiesafdeling was, het persentasiegewys vir plaaslike regering die meeste kiersers geregistreer. Dit was omdat daar ’n mobiele eenheid van Binnelandse Sake was en dit het van die amptenare geverg om deur die nag te ry om dit te doen. Dit is waarde vir geld vir Prince Albert se mense. Daar is nog steeds ’n paar amptenare wat nie Batho Pele beginsels gehoorsaam nie, maar soos ons in Afrikaans sê, dis die klein jakkalsies wat die wingerde verniel.

Ek wil vir u terugvat, want hier is lede wat Batho Pele in ’n ander opsig sien. In die apartheidsdae met die vorige regering was die Batho Pele anders vir my. Ek het dit ook ervaar; dan staan ons swart mense in ’n ry en dan word daar vir ons gesê: “Gee pad, staan soontoe, dat die oubaas en die nooi verbykom.” Vir ’n ou tannie of ouma word daar gesê: “Staan ook maar eenkant, want die klienbaas moet ook verbykom.” Dan word hulle eerste bedien. Dit was die Batho Pele in die ou dae.

U kan die groot verskil sien en u kan sien waar ons vandag is. Daar is gelykheid en ons moet dit tog erken. Ek wil nie saamstem dat daar alewig chaos in Publieke Werke is nie, agb Worth. As dit die geval was dan sou my skoonpa nie so gelukkig gewees het dat hy elke maand sy “old-age pension” kry nie. Daar is een of twee gevalle waar daar probleme is, maar dan is daar regtig probleme. Wanneer ons praat van die Skerpioene wat moet ontbind en geamalgameer word, dan is die land in chaos en daar is so baie geweld. Daar is chaos as ’n paar van ons mense kla dat hulle swaar kry in plaaslike regering. Die ANC ondersteun die begroting. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Batho Pele in the rural town where I hail from – Beaufort West in the Central Karoo, the Presidential node, amongst the poorest of the poor - has been very successful. Some problems do exist, but I can point to examples from my own experience. I received my child’s identity document within fourteen days.

Prince Albert, a rural town which was my constituency, has, in terms of percentages, registered the most voters for local government. This was because a mobile unit from Home Affairs was stationed in town and it required the officials to drive through the night in order to set it up. This is value for money for the people of Prince Albert. There are still some officials who do not heed the principles of Batho Pele, but as the saying goes in Afrikaans, it is the little foxes that spoil the vines.

I would like to take you back, because we have members here who view Batho Pele in a different light. Batho Pele was different for me in the previous government during the apartheid days. I have also experienced this. Blacks would be queuing and were then told: “Make way, stand aside, so the oubaas and the nooi can pass.” Old ladies or grandmothers were also told: “Stand aside, because the kleinbaas also has to pass.” They were then seen to first. This was Batho Pele in the old days.

You can see the huge difference and you can see where we are today. There is equality and we should acknowledge this. I would like to disagree, hon Worth, that chaos is forever present in Public Works. If this was the case then my father-in-law would not have been so happy to receive his old age pension every month. There are one or two cases where problems do exist, but then these are serious problems. When we talk about the Scorpions that should be disbanded and amalgamated, then we will have chaos in this country, and we already have so much violence. There is chaos when a few people complain that they were suffering in local government. The ANC supports the Budget Vote.] [Time expired.]

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson and members, I must start off by thanking the chair of the select committee, hon Shiceka, and say that, indeed, the past four years have been good years. We’ve engaged robustly and in various ways we’ve agreed on a number of things and at times agreed to disagree on other matters. I think that is the spirit of oversight from the side of Parliament and particularly this House.

The responsibility here is obviously a responsibility that takes into account the constituent provinces and I think we should say that value has been added through the process. I want to quote Peter Kuschka, who in 1923 said, “I would rather go naked”. And he said:

Naked through all streets I would rather go and freeze like trees do. Blackness petrified. Naked through all streets I would rather go and die as a man who ends with suicide. Naked through all streets I would rather go and act like a poor dull fool you all despise. Naked through all the streets I would rather go, but never dress up in a suit of lies.

I thought that was important to raise today, because when we look at the interface between the executive and Parliament it is to ensure that we are able to engage with the truth and do so factually and not simply from an anecdotal perspective.

Having said that, I want to look at some of the issues that you’ve raised, hon Worth. And I want to start with the Public Administration Management Bill that is before Parliament right now. I think it is necessary to say to the DA, and I’ve done this in the National Assembly already, that there is a need to go and look at that Bill, the draft that is on the table, and engage with that rather than chase ghosts, because that Bill does not suggest in any way that we are going to centralise powers. What it does say is that there is a need to ensure that in one statute we have the norms and standards that cover all three spheres of government in the areas of human resources, anticorruption, ICT and service delivery.

When I listened to the inputs that were made today, including through you, Chairperson, and the input by the hon Worth, I thought that is precisely what they want. When I listen to a presentation that reflects contradictions, I think we should say “I’d rather go naked”, than take the approach that was taken here. A second point that I would like to make is that the suggestion that there is going to be an infringement on the benefits of any public servant, even those at local government level, is also misleading. Again I’d advise you: Go and look at the draft Bill - it has been tabled before Parliament. Look at what it says about the macrobenefits around pension funds, medical aids, etc. Also look at the whole question around collective bargaining. There is no suggestion that any public servant at any level of government is going to be any worse off. Again I’d say, I’d rather go naked than exaggerate the truth in any way whatsoever.

On the points that were made generally around the role of the Public Service, the role of the commission and so on, I don’t think one can quarrel with that. I do, however, want to come to this point that suggests that the Public Service is in disarray and that we can’t attract the brightest and the best. I want to invite you, hon member, to look at the people in the box on my right, and at the people in the gallery. These are among South Africa’s brightest and best and they are proud to be in this Public Service.

If you hold a different view, that is your opinion. [Interjections.] But I want to say that I am proud to lead a team such as this. We also have members of the Public Enterprise team and I am sure Minister Erwin will say some of the brightest and best are there.

There are people who have left the private sector to come into the public sector, precisely because they believe that this is a place where they can make a difference. It is because they are South Africans committed to this Constitution and they understand what the Preamble says, they understand what the founding provisions of the Constitution say and they appreciate that if we want to ensure that we have supremacy of the Constitution and the rule of law, we need a sound public administration and a sound Public Service. We will never be able to get away from that.

Yes, there are problems.

Dit is waarom die agb lid gesê het dis die klein jakkalsies wat die wingerd vernietig. [This is why the hon member said that it is the little foxes that destroy the vineyard.]

It’s in a forest of a million growing trees that, when one tree falls, it makes a crashing noise. I think we should never forget that.

Hon member from the FF Plus, you know we also sometimes have this challenge and contradiction. We hear, on the one hand, that people don’t want to come in to the Public Service and, on the other hand, you’ve made the gesture of ensuring that there is a CD that is given that indicates that there’s more than a thousand people who are willing to come and work in this very Public Service that some are ready to run down.

Let me say two things: Firstly, I’ve just been informed by hon Minister Erwin that Eskom has also received this CD and they are evaluating it at this point. Secondly, I also want to say that you should look at both our legislative and regulatory frameworks and understand that we don’t have centralised appointments. We don’t have a centralised human resource system.

The issue that the hon member from the DA is accusing us of, of wanting to centralise – we’re not even doing that in the amending Bill. So we can’t centrally determine appointments of people and, as a result, we’ll have to look at what is available and see whether the various government departments or sectors can use the kind of people that have been captured in this database.

I think we should also understand, when we say there are skills shortages, that it’s in specific areas, so we won’t be able to say that every doctoral student that has graduated and is out there may be able to be integrated. It doesn’t mean that everyone who says I’m ready to join will be able to come in. Our appointments are made through open competition and we don’t intend undermining this.

What I also want to say in the spirit of “Naked through all the streets I’d rather go, but never dress up in a suit of lies” is what we are not going to suspend affirmative action. That is one of our policies and what we have said repeatedly is that we are expanding the base and, through the expansion of that base, there is the ability to ensure that we use those skills sets as required.

So we are saying that it’s not through the suspension of a particular policy, but rather in a targeted and focused manner that we will ensure that we employ people who have the skills required. It should not be seen as suspending policy, but we should look at the policy in a flexible manner and ask how we utilise the resources required.

In terms of the last few points I need to make, I need to do so against the challenge presented to me by the Chairperson. I want to say that, for the last two years, 2007 and 2008, Samdi has ensured 100% financial disclosures. In 2007 we saw 85% in the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, and there have been a number of reasons why that has been the case, and this year we have seen 100% financial disclosures.

There is a challenge around our gender targets that should be met, because we’ve met 33,6% at this point in time. You’ve correctly pointed out that we’ve got less than a year left, and we need to ensure that we meet the 50% target. There is great pressure on that component under the Deputy-Director General, DDG, Colette Clark, to ensure that the framework we’ve put in place can be applied across the Public Service to meet that particular target.

In terms of disability, we’ve just crossed 1%, so we must ensure that we meet the 2010 target. Again we look at the job access strategy and various other approaches that we need to take in order to ensure that we respond appropriately.

In concluding, I would like to say that, like everyone else, I am confident about where the Public Service is going. Before I conclude, hon Mzizi, I’ve got to respond to you. You said please make sure that we win the battle against corruption in our lifetime. Now I am going to use a quote that I used in the National Assembly, but I’m going to be more extensive about it. I want to say that in our lifetime, in the two Houses of Parliament, we could argue that we’ve put the frameworks in place to win that battle. But, as I said earlier, we’re never going to win the battle quickly. This is about a continuous process. Let’s just think of the words by Obiageli Ezekwesili, the Vice President of the World Bank, Africa Region - our Nigerian sister - she says:

It is not just about catching the thieves, it is about having the right institutional and structural procedures to ensure that you prevent the occurrence of bad behaviour. It is more cost effective to prevent bad behaviour than to spend money dealing with the consequences of bad behaviour. I put a lot of weight on the institutional reforms, and a lot has happened that people are not aware of.

People are sentimentally attached to the idea of frying some fish. If you can prevent these bad fish from growing, this is better. The institutional side of things is very important. And this hasn’t caught the attention of the media. In the full cycle, you need ethical orientation, you need structural changes to prevent the occurrence of corruption, and you need law and its enforcement, and the punishment of bad behaviour wherever it occurs. This work is important in an environment that had been permeated with systemic corruption. It demonstrates that no one is above the law, so it sends a signal that when you engage in corruption and you are caught, you are not going to be allowed to enjoy the benefits of your bad behaviour. It is a huge colony of issues.

I think we can proudly say that we have put the right institutional and structural procedures in place. So, hon Mzizi, let’s not beat ourselves up. Let’s say we’ve put that in place. We now need to see the bearing of the fruits and we need to reap that, and this is where this House is so important. That’s where the successors, as they come in, should ensure that they understand what has been put in place. They need to look into the application and make it happen.

Once again I want to say that I am proud to lead the kind of team that I believe has of the brightest and the best. Mind you, this team is diverse in every sense: We have young people and older people; we have Gems and the kind of team that’s there; we have the Centre for Public Service Innovation; there’s the Public Service Commission and Palama now; the Department for Public Service and Administration; and the Public Service Sector Education and Training Authority. They are from among the cream of society. They are going to lead and they will ensure that Chapter 10 of this Constitution is made a reality. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Thank you, hon Minister. That was the end of the debate on Public Service and Administration. I hope the hon Minister and the officials from the department have enjoyed being in this House, and I hope we will continue to work together. I would also like to thank the guests in the gallery and welcome our colleagues from the National Assembly sitting in the gallery.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 30- Public Enterprises: The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, it is certainly a privilege to once again be in the House to table Vote 30, that of the Department of Public Enterprise. And let me just say that I admire your fortitude, patience and strength to sit through three budget speeches in an afternoon. That is commitment!

The role of the State-Owned Enterprises, SOEs, has evolved over the years. We would argue that effective SOEs are crucial to the success of a developmental state. In the 1990s investment by SOEs decreased sharply and between 1994 and 2004 the focus was on restructuring. By 2004 a decisive role for SOEs was defined and they were seen as being key enablers of growth and critical to South Africa’s goals of accelerated and shared economic growth.

From 2004 we intensified the work of restructuring these enterprises to focus on their core business so as to deliver on the state’s strategic intent. The work of the SOEs, particularly Transnet and Eskom, has expanded over the past five years in order to meet the escalating demands of a growing economy. As a result, their combined infrastructure investment programmes now stand at almost R400 billion for the next five years.

Such a programme poses its own set of opportunities and challenges, particularly in the energy sector. South Africa plans to double its electricity capacity over the next 20 years, and to diversify its primary energy source from fossil fuels to nuclear and renewable energy sources. The estimated cost of this over the next two decades is approximately R1 trillion, a staggering figure! If it is used optimally, it could provide South Africa with the opportunity to develop relevant design and manufacturing capacities to globally competitive standards.

This will allow South Africa to localise a high proportion of its equipment needs and develop export capacity as part of the global energy equipment supply network. This is the aim of the South African Power Project, which provides a comprehensive framework that links new investments in plant, skills, technology transfers, as well as research and development projects, with the procurements associated with this 20-year build programme.

In addition, the Competitive Supplier Development Programme, CSDP, which was established last year with the objective of leveraging the planned SOE investment programmes of Eskom and Transnet, the pebble bed modular reactor and others into advanced manufacturing, aims to promote investment in the national SOE supplier base and thus optimise SOE impact on industrial development.

The success of the investment programmes in electricity and transport and our general programme to transform SOEs depends in part on how we systematically and meaningfully engage with the unions operating in these industries. We have assembled a programme which involves discussions with both the federations and sector unions around these long-term investment programmes.

Earlier today the National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa, announced the tariff increases. For those of you who don’t know, it is another 13% on top of the 14%. As government we welcome this difficult decision as it will provide a degree of certainty. Nersa has also accepted the basic smoothing approach over the next three years and also provided for lower increases for poor households, which was the spirit of the recent energy summit. The proposed shareholder support for Eskom will have to be invoked and more detailed announcements will be made at a later stage.

Historical underinvestment in capacity and sustained levels of growth in electricity demand have placed undue strain on Eskom’s generation capacity and operational performance. Rising primary energy costs and the need to fund the accelerated demand – side management programmes will have an adverse effect on its cash flow. The strength of Eskom’s balance sheet is therefore crucial if the enterprise is to successfully borrow on international capital markets. With the announced tariff increase and the shareholder support, we believe that we will secure this objective.

The construction of Medupi Power Station has created a real hive of activity in the Lephalale area, with approximately 800 local people from this area already employed in work on the construction phase. The main contractor, Murray & Roberts, who won the civils contract, is now also in the process of building a training centre to train 700 local people in all kinds of trade over the next three years.

In the main, our SOEs operate in critical areas of the economy, such as electricity, infrastructure, telecommunications and advanced manufacturing. A lot of work has taken place in each of these SOEs in the past year, but let me briefly touch on some of the highlights of these events.

Starting with Alexkor, the community claim to the land has recently been resolved, which paves the way for a restructuring of Alexkor. The settlement provides for the formation of a pooling and shared joint venture between Alexkor and the Richtersveld community. This joint venture will put in place a mine development plan and programme to upgrade the land and sea diamond resources and will develop a business plan to constitute a viable mining venture.

Transfer of Alexkor’s agricultural and mariculture assets to the community will empower the community and create a basis for future development and wealth creation, not only for the Richtersveld community, but for the Northern Cape region as a whole.

With Broadband Infraco, which became a stand-alone SOE in January this year, we have succeeded in operationalising and strengthening the national long-distance network, as well as provisioning of additional capacity. Infraco has increased its footprint by 30% and doubled its capacity during this period. Infraco has provisioned route connectivity services to the core backbone and regional expansion sites. Additional fibre routes were added to close the long-distance ring and to provide redundant capacities. As we have stated before, the African West Coast Cable will be prioritised by government in order to meet 2010 objectives as well as other short-to- medium term strategic projects.

In the case of Denel, South Africa’s defence spend has reduced by 54% in real terms since 1990, which has driven the need for Denel’s restructuring. In 2004 Denel was in a critical state but progress is being made in terms of its turnaround strategy. A restructuring process has been undertaken, focused on the corporatisation of distinct operating divisions. The introduction of strategic equity partnerships at business unit level is aimed at increasing market access and ensuring the transfer of global skills, technology and manufacturing know-how to Denel.

The pebble bed modular reactor is a major developmental project and as such requires considerable initial investment by the project partners. The negotiation of the new shareholder’s agreement, which will create a platform to attract additional equity partners, is currently at an advanced stage. This project is important for a number of reasons. One of these is the retention of very skilled professionals within the South African industry. However, the success of the project could also have a major positive impact on our manufacturing sector and would provide leading technology in the reduction of greenhouse gases.

The Department of Public Enterprises’ portfolio has recently been expanded through the acquisition of SA Express, a domestic airline focused on secondary routes. The SA Express’ board of directors has approved the introduction of the SA Express exclusive Cadet Pilot Programme, which is aimed at addressing the current shortage of pilots. The airline recently won the 2007 Annual Airline Reliability Performance Awards. These awards were presented by Bombardier Aerospace two days ago in Canada.

The benefits of an effective regional airline, I’m sure, will be well understood by the hon members representing the provinces. In the case of SA Airways which was transferred from Transnet to the department on 31 March 2007, this airline was financially and operationally challenged and its continued sustainability was dependent on the implementation of a fundamental restructuring programme.

The focus of this programme is to return the airline to profitability which requires cost-cutting, route and fleet rationalisation and the implementation of more innovative revenue management practices. I believe the results that will come out at the end of this financial year will show that we have made very substantial progress in the restructuring process.

The financial performance of the South African Forestry Company Ltd, Safcol, has generally been positive in the recent past and the group has a strong balance sheet, including a positive cash position. A substantial portion of the land on which Komatiland Forests, KLF Safcol’s main forestry subsidiary, operates is subject to land claims. As we get a clearer picture of the exact extent of these land claims it is clear that this may delay the execution of the transaction to dispose of KLF, and we are currently in detailed consultations with the Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry and Land Affairs to address this challenge.

The strong growth experienced by the economy over the past decade, coupled with the rapid pace of globalisation, has seen the demand for freight traffic surpass all previous expectations. This is putting ever-increasing pressure on an already strained freight network which is suffering from decades of underinvestment in both fixed and operating infrastructure.

Transnet has already made some major progress towards addressing this challenge. Transnet has over the last three years achieved financial stability, and has focused on the reorientation of the group around its core functions of freight transport within the rail, ports and pipeline sectors. Transnet has also been successful with the continued implementation of a capital investment programme aimed at improving the quality and capacity of its asset base over the last two years, with a combined spend of some R27 billion. Almost 60% of the planned R84 billion capital programme will go towards capacity expansion projects, while just over 40% will be spent on replacing outdated and unsafe infrastructure.

The R11,2 billion New Multi-Product Pipeline, NMPP, project between Durban and Gauteng is a priority project to ensure security of supply of liquid fuels to the Reef. The multipurpose project, the largest single project in Transnet’s portfolio, encompasses the replacement and expansion of the Durban to Johannesburg pipeline. The NMPP also addresses the capacity constraints in the inland network, which services the Alrode, Tarlton, Rustenburg, Witbank, Pretoria, Kroonstad and Klerksdorp regions. This constraint has resulted from the increased demand requirement in these regions.

In the case of the ports, Transnet intends to invest approximately R26 billion in the next five years between its Port Authority and Port Terminal divisions, primarily to support the dry bulk, liquid bulk, containers, automotive and breakbulk sectors across the seven existing commercial ports in the new Ngqurha Port in the Eastern Cape.

Given the strategic importance of the state-owned enterprises, it is critical that government moves towards best practice and consistent shareholder management to both optimise performance of individual SOEs and of the portfolio of government as a whole.

The underlying rationale for state ownership in the enterprise sector in South Africa is a developmental one. It is the desire of government to use its shareholding in SOEs to exercise control over strategic assets and investment programmes in order to achieve specific developmental objectives. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that in pursuing such objectives a commercial approach has a number of advantages.

It imposes efficiency disciplines on the enterprises but, in so doing, allows the enterprise to be understood by market players and, in particular, the capital markets. This allows for two very important further advantages – the raising of capital by the SOEs in the capital markets and the formation of commercial partnerships with private enterprise. These features allow the state to mobilise resources across a wide front and allow for greater flexibility of operation.

However, such advantages have to be balanced against the fact that the SOEs are not commercial enterprises in a pure sense. Their mandate is to achieve longer-term strategic objectives emanating from the state, as opposed to the marketplace alone. The challenge is to achieve strategic national economic objectives through enterprises that are subject to the disciplines associated with operating a commercial enterprise that achieves a sustainable rate of return on capital, enables investment and ensures value for money.

Governments in many countries across the globe are now evolving towards this model of the state as shareholder. The ability of SOEs to raise capital on the markets means that a significant amount of money can be freed from the fiscus to fund objectives requiring direct government funding. They are able to partner with global enterprises that are not only able to provide additional capital but can also rapidly introduce new technologies, business processes and markets to the country, allowing development to proceed at a far greater pace than what could be achieved in isolation. But these are complex entities and the oversight role of Parliament is therefore a crucial one.

Time and resources have to be invested in our portfolio and select committees so that they are fully equipped to effectively carry out their oversight function. It is important for us to give full consideration to the complex interrelationship between Parliament, the shareholder Ministry, the board and the management of the SOEs. The sensitivity of commercial and strategic issues dealt with by the SOEs makes it necessary to consider exactly how the parliamentary oversight function can be carried out. The past five years have indeed been challenging and a definite learning curve for all of us. My hope is that we leave behind for the next administration not only some food for thought, but also systems which will allow the portfolio department and Parliament to have a clearer defined mandate of their management and oversight roles and the SOEs, which are better able to fulfil their role as enablers of economic growth and development.

Much has been achieved, but more work lies ahead. We should not be steered off course, and our goal of accelerated and shared growth must continue to spur us on in spite of the challenging global economic environment.

I’d like to conclude by thanking the chairperson of the select committee, the hon Ms Themba, and the members of that committee for all their hard work and the very real effort they have put into doing the oversight task. Obviously I’d like to thank the officials in my department, who are also young, hardworking and the cream of the country, for the work that they have done. I say this with great sincerity. It is a very active, young department.

It’s the end of the day and I notice that I have saved a bit of time, which is part of the efficiency of state-owned enterprises! [Laughter.] Hon members, we would like to place this budget on the Table for your consideration as the NCOP. Thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Thank you, hon Minister, for saving time. I hope other members will join you.

Ms S S CHEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, my hon colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, the key objective of the Department of Public Enterprises is to provide an effective state-owned enterprise shareholder’s management system and to support and promote economic efficiency and competitiveness in order to ensure a better life for all South Africans. The performance of the nine SOEs is extremely important in the economic sectors of transport, energy and communication.

In the last quarter our Gross Domestic Product, GDP growth was 5,3%. In the first quarter this year the GDP growth result was only 2,1%. The disappointing first quarter growth is not only a result of a global slowdown, but also because of the damaging effect of the electricity crisis on business and industry, which were forced to contend with power outages and power rationing.

The Department of Public Enterprises has an important role in monitoring the planning, delivery and financing of the infrastructure of all SOEs. To be able to achieve these goals, we need to have capable and accountable officials in the right positions within the department.

We have argued extensively about Eskom’s poor performance since the beginning of this year. During this time, our Minister promised various rescue plans. Now that six months have passed, the questions in my mind are: Have all these plans been implemented; are we monitoring the process; has the situation and the outlook been improved; and finally, have we revisited our policy?

Statistics from the report of the Department of Public Enterprises show that out of 160 posts, we have 19 vacancies, of which most are at Levels 13 to 16, which is senior management. It is shocking to see that a position of an aviation and rail sector specialist has been vacant for as long as 540 days, that of the director of risk management has been vacant for 480 days and that of an economist has been vacant for 390 days. No wonder the department is experiencing management difficulties!

We really would like to see an advert that proudly shows SAA voted the best domestic airline in South Africa, not British Airways. We must, of course, acknowledge some of the achievements and hard work of the department. For example, it is most welcome to see that Transnet recently increased investment in ports infrastructure. This also encourages private business to do the same, which then benefits development, since one of the key solutions to the South African infrastructure challenge lies in public- private partnerships. However, Transnet must still make further improvements in terms of operation and productivity, particularly in the railway’s capacity and safety, as well as ensuring that their tariff increase is closely aligned to the Consumer Price Index, CPI.

The Department of Public Enterprises’ shareholder is our entire nation. The revenue source comes solely from the country’s tax revenue, and we therefore expect a competent Chief Executive Officer, CEO, to manage our investment and protect our interests. We have so many tasks ahead of us and we look forward to our hon Minister providing us with more positive news and reports in the near future. Thank you.

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, it is said that change is the only constant thing in life. Nothing illustrates this better than time. Hon Minister Erwin made his first Budget Vote address as Minister of Public Enterprises on 14 June 2004, yet it feels as if it was only a few months ago. How fast the years have passed!

Time progresses so speedily that it could make our actions seem static. When we review the past four years and assess our achievements, we wonder whether that which has kept us so busy and absorbed so much of the state’s financial resources is indeed significant when measured against the progress of time.

It is therefore the historic responsibility of the department to continuously ensure that enterprises focus on their core businesses and that they dispose of the noncore assets that no longer serve business purposes. At the heart of the efficiency and effectiveness of these enterprises lies the ability to plan and expand infrastructure. For these enterprises to be sustainable they must continually develop and expand their infrastructure.

Minister, on the occasion of your maiden speech as the newly appointed Minister of this department, you shared a vision of how state-owned enterprises could be utilised more effectively by the developmental state. This vision was aligned to the broader policy trajectory of our movement in which state-owned enterprises were idealistically viewed as the panacea for addressing all the country’s logistical infrastructure needs and as fundamental to catapult our economy up to higher levels of growth.

By restructuring the corporate structures of the state-owned enterprises, SOEs, to make them more focused by streamlining their managerial practices to enhance efficiency and by leveraging their capital investment programmes for local supplier development of our SOEs, we are going to be key drivers of growth and development at home and on the continent.

Transnet was to provide competitive services in rail, ports and pipelines by introducing the latest technology, improving and expanding its infrastructure in increasing production and reducing prices. South African Airways was going to be a core facilitator of inter-Africa trade and tourism expansion, hence our argument that it should remain in state hands. Denel was to play a leading intellectual role in high-value-added manufacturing development.

Alexkor was going to provide a platform for diamond beneficiation in South Africa; Safcol was going to contribute towards stability in the forestry industry and Eskom was the pride of the country, a winner of numerous international awards that boasted a huge reserve margin. My colleagues will elaborate on the above. Our dreams were further boosted with the emergence of the PBMR and Infraco.

Nothing was more exciting than South Africa being the leader in developing fourth-generation nuclear technology, which is cleaner and safer. We would not just have provided adequate energy to meet domestic demand, but we were going to sell the portable package to our brothers and sisters on the continent.

Infraco, our youngest baby, was to reduce broadband costs and make telephony more affordable and accessible. We had dreams of abundant capacity for e-learning, e-medicine and a booming service sector. Infraco’s digital networks were to bridge the rural-urban divide and narrow the gap between the more developed and developing sections of our economy.

So great was our intention that our budget allocation to the Department of Public Enterprises allowed for an expenditure increase from R678,7 million in 2004-05 to R4,6 billion in 2007-08. The combined transfer payment to SOEs grew from R6,2 million in 2004-2005 to R4,5 billion in 2007-08. The Minister’s task was not an easy one and we accept that reviving ailing enterprises was fraught with challenges. Furthermore, relative to the speed of time, a period of four years no longer seems that long to turn the course of a huge fleet of enterprises from the trajectory of privatisation to pivotal developmental tools.

Nonetheless, as custodians of public finances we have to account. We also have to account when Eskom fails to meet our energy demands adequately. We have to account when entities such as the PBMR and projects such as the Competitive Supplier Development Programme appear not to progress beyond the phases of research; and we have to account when there are perceived deviations from our ideological intent.

The economic growth path championed by the ANC is pragmatic and informed by sound economic principles and experience. The insistence that the management of the country’s logistical infrastructure network and particular strategic entities remain in state hands is not merely driven by ideological favour but is based on the recognition that there are certain market conditions that would lead to underinvestment in the private sector if the private sector were to be the sole providers.

It is thus with puzzled interest that we observe the state exiting from Alexkor, the dismantling of Safcol, the unbundling of SAA, the corporation of the National Ports Authority and the increased introduction of private ownership into co-subsidiaries of Denel.

This continued perceived path of privatisation is appearing in the context of a Polokwane resolution for increased state intervention in the economy. And while we have no doubt that there are sound reasons for these occurrences, it does appear to be policy deviation that we need to account for.

Furthermore, Minister, while we note that always having to abide by stringent, bureaucratic measures when making decisions for SOEs within a dynamic market is undoubtedly frustrating, we are not convinced that creating a structure with the powers to bypass both Cabinet and Parliament in the decision-making process, as proposed in the shareholder management model, is necessarily the best manner in which to manage these frustrations.

Parliament remains the ultimate accounting structure of the people and its oversight role, though cumbersome and tedious, is an important one; hence our insistence that the DPE Budget Vote also be brought to the NCOP, which is the voice of the provinces and the eyes of the general public.

We also wanted this debate to laud the successes of the past four years. Overall, when we review the performance of the department over the past four years, there have been more successes than failures. We also know that the victories were not easily achieved, but required management of complex and delicate relations with a wide range of stakeholders. The Minister had to deal with delays in respect of environmental impact processes, impediments to the rapid accessing of public funds, input-cost volatility and global competition for both suppliers and markets.

Without doubt, Minister, you are one of the greatest minds that our country has ever produced. The intellectual vision that has been created would have been of significant value to our country and our continent if all of it had been realised.

Transnet is a sterling illustration of the success of your vision. This company has not just been stabilised, it has been completely transformed. Today Transnet’s business progress is so impressive that if it were listed on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange it would compare with the best in respect of operational excellence and financial stability. The development of a second economy is of critical importance in a developing economy. We support the Budget Vote. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): I just want to remind members that we are not allowed to eat in this House. If people want to eat, they have to go outside and eat and then come back again.

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Chairperson, hon Minister, energy savers have to be used at all costs. Despite our being spoiled by electricity that is accessible in towns, poor rural communities are still the losers in the face of problems experienced with Eskom. Appropriate wind-driven technologies need to be spread to other areas as has been tried in the Western Cape. Solar energy and hot boxes have to be used to save energy so that industries won’t shut down at awkward times. And we have got to find solutions - all of us.

Trying out the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor, PBMR, may be acceptable if nuclear energy waste is disposed of where it will not affect people’s lives.

The IFP does support the present budget, but we’ll need to get more money during the MTEF, in view of the escalating costs of oil and all the other commodities that may be used for alternative energy provision.

Denel requires a budget that will resuscitate the soya processing plant or else the plant should be moved to Mpumalanga where they grow 53% of South Africa’s soya beans. [Interjections.]

Miso, the fermented soya bean paste used extensively in Japanese cooking, might protect people from radiation damage. According to Dr Shinichiro Akizuki of St Francisco Hospital in Nagasaki, doctors who attended atomic bombed victims did not themselves suffer from radiation damage because they drank miso soup - that is soya soup. Supporting this assertion, animal studies show that miso increases the discharge of radioactivity from the body and reduces the number of tumours induced by radiation.

I was a bit doubtful about the use of nuclear energy because I did not know how it would affect the people in South Africa, knowing what radiation does, as I have been working in the hospital for over 30 years. But now we know that is soya the answer. Viva, soya, Viva! [Applause.]

We support the budget but the department will need more money for soya projects and for Denel to reactivate the plant which was processing soya. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D D GAMEDE: Chairperson, it is always nice to speak after the soya episode! [Laughter.] Today, and in the past, my fellow comrades and other hon members have said quite a lot about this important month in our history. Let me also add my voice in honouring all those young people - and the old - who sacrificed not only their education and social life, but also their lives in order for us to be able to debate this Budget Vote today. Sihlalo, we, as the ANC, support this budget. The mandate of the Department of Public Enterprises is simple and straight-forward, that is, and I quote:

To ensure alignment between the SOEs with sector department policies and regulatory authorities, while ensuring that SOEs are sustainable businesses that provide economic benefit to the country.

In this debate, I shall confine myself to four areas: the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor, PBMR; Alexcor; Denel; and Safcol.

The PBMR is the brainchild of South Africa and its investors are, amongst others, the South African government, Eskom, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, and the Westinghouse from the United States. With the challenges we face as a country in regard to electricity, the PBMR would be one of the best solutions, as the high temperature gas-cooled reactor technology would also enable access to electricity generation and process heat application. Hon Minister, we should urge the department to move with speed in advancing the development of the PBMR.

With regard to Alexcor, we are aware that it mines diamonds, and its activities include marine and land mining in Alexander Bay. We are also aware that the Richtersveld community made a claim for the return of its land in terms of the Restitution of Land Rights Act of 1994. We note that in April 2007 the Minister of Public Enterprises, Comrade Alec Erwin, signed a land settlement agreement with that community for the return of 84 000 ha of diamond-bearing land. This is proof that, we as the ANC, walk the talk.

The deed settlement became effective in October 2007 and effectively made the Richtersveld community the owners of Alexcor. For this, Comrade Minister, we salute you. The settlement entails, amongst other things, restoring the land and mineral rights by way of transfer of Alexcor’s land mining rights; a lump sum development grant of R50 million; R190 million compensation as reparation payment; transferring agricultural and marine culture assets; establishing a formal township at Alexander Bay; and environmental rehabilitation. Only the ANC and the ANC-led government that cares for the people can do this. Now the land has been returned to the rightful owners, with all its benefits and with all its rights.

Denel operates in the military aerospace and landward defence environment. As part of the process of major restructuring, Denel is also being unbundled. In this transformation the new companies are actively seeking equity partners locally and internationally. The ANC-led government really considers Denel a strategic asset for its role as a custodian of South Africa’s technological capabilities and as a driver of skills development in the engineering and high technology fields in line with Asgisa and Jipsa.

In 1990, the defence acquisition spend in the Republic of South Africa then was R14,1 billion. In 2007 the defence spend was R6,5 billion, a two-thirds reduction. This is proof that South Africa is no longer at war with itself because most of that money was used by the then South Africa to fight other South Africans in South Africa. But, in defence of democracy and freedom, this amount of R6,5 billion is being used. Once more, we thank the Minister, the department and the ANC.

However, hon Minister, we would like to see a speedy turnaround of Denel so that it focuses on core businesses but in doing so the historically disadvantaged should be the major beneficiaries of the equity stakes that are to take place. And whilst doing that, government must assist in ensuring that blacks, in particular, do benefit from these equity stakes.

With regard to Safcol, the forestry sector is an important contributor to the gross domestic product and employment. Currently, it employs 170 000 people and contributes more than R16 billion annually to the South African economy.

In KwaZulu-Natal options for a new forest station also exist and this would play a significant role in the Integrated Rural Development Programme. Safcol was also the leader in the introduction of forest certification in South Africa, where the first local industry to be certified by the Forest Stewardship Council, FSC, was in KwaZulu-Natal. In March 2007, a decision was taken to privatise Komati Land Forest, KLF, by March 2009 and Safcol has to be owned by December 2009. Now the question that we would want to pose to the hon Minister is: Are there any land claims on this forest? If there are, where is the process as we speak, and are we to go on with the privatisation irrespective of the land claims?

Before I conclude, I come from KZN, which is KwaZulu-Natal. I must use this opportunity to engage the Minister on other issues pertaining to KwaZulu- Natal. I refer to the Richards Bay Harbour, and Richards Bay Coal Terminal, RBCT, and want to know about such things as the possibility of the dry dock in Richards Bay, the container terminal and the acquisition of properties that are owned either by Transnet or Propnet or other state-owned enterprises in the North Coast area and the disposal thereof. I would then invite the hon Minister to Richards Bay so that we can also discuss these issues further outside of this Budget Vote. We, as the ANC, support this Budget Vote.

Mr J M SIBIYA: Comrades, let’s take note of the advice we got from hon Mchunu to take soya beans very seriously. Hon Minister, departmental officials, comrades, colleagues, and ladies and gentlemen, in part the mandate of the Department of Public Enterprise is to ensure that the State- Owned Enterprises, SOEs, are sustainable businesses that provide economic benefit to the country. Following on after this part of the department’s mandate, the Minister, in his foreword to the department’s strategic plan, says that the primary focus of the department is to consolidate the implemention of their mandate, which is to ensure that the SOEs continue to support and promote economic efficiency, competitiveness and economic growth for a better life for all South Africans.

This, indeed, is a bold statement of commitment and is greatly welcomed. Against the background of the department’s vision, that of SOE’s playing a role in their industry that ensures an optimal allocation of responsibilities between the public and private sector, one would find it relevant to request the hon Minister, in his closing remarks, to give some general outline of the achievements of the private sector in imparting scarce skills to previously disadvantaged individuals, as well as the achievements of the SOEs themselves in attracting world-class skills.

The committee commends the Minister for the department’s ability to maintain a healthy balance sheet for our SOEs, especially in the context of our expanding and growing economy. It is also heartening to learn from the strategic plan that the recent emergency electricity supply has brought with it lessons to the department, including lessons in risk management and planning.

The other commitments the hon Minister has made in the strategic plan referred to above are, firstly, overseeing the building programmes of Eskom and Transnet; secondly, the development of broadband infrastructure; and thirdly, the development of key technologies in nuclear defence and aerospace. These are a source of confidence for us.

It can only be hoped that the building of Transnet infrastructure will be among the topmost priorities of the department in the current financial year. The committee believes that the achievement thereof will necessarily see some of the heavy trucks that carry loads to and from our ports reduced or eliminated altogether, thereby halting the rapid wearing out of our roads. On the other hand, such an achievement spells a great possibility of new jobs being created.

As far as the wings of the nation - that is what I call SAA – are concerned, we appreciate the fact that a fleet of new and modern aircraft has been added. I personally have seen and flown in a number of Airbus 340- 200 aircraft. I tell you, most of them land very comfortably. Of course I do not rule out the possibility of the role played by external factors like weather, the skill of the pilot and tarmac surface also contributing to the comfortable landing I am talking about. Let me say something here …

Siku rin’wana a ndzi khandziyile laha eCapeTown ndzi ya eO R Tambo International Airport, a ndzi tshamile ekusuhi na wanuna un’wana wo huma eGermany. Loko hi ri karhi hi vulavula u ndzi byerile leswaku u huma eFrankfrut, eGermany. Kutani ndzi n’ wi vutisa leswaku leswi a nga mujeremani hikokwalaho ka yini loko a ta haleno a nga ti hi airline ya ka vona leyi ya Lufthansa a ta hi SAA a tlhela a tlhela hi yona? Se a ku … (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)

[One day I was flying from Cape Town to O R Tambo International Airport and I was seated next to a man from Germany. During our conversation he told me he came from Frankfurt, Germany. And I then asked him why he preferred flying SAA to and from South Africa to their German airliner, Lufthansa. Then he said …]

I will speak in English so that you can get the point I want to stress. Of all the airlines I have ever flown I found only SAA to have enough leg room

• that is why I prefer SAA. Viva, SAA, viva!

There are, however, some vexing questions which need to be asked for the sake of getting some information from the Minister. These are not seen to be impediments as such, but they can very easily dent the reputation of the SAA, in terms of the example I have given. Sometimes when fights are delayed it is not easy for the staff concerned to give reasons. Sometimes they do indicate that they are still waiting for the incoming plane, but that is not satisfactory in most cases.

In some cases you also find that two passengers booked one and the same seat. What went wrong? In other cases luggage goes missing or is sent to the wrong destination. The most worrying problem is sometimes luggage is torn, ripped open and even broken. Does the department have some measures in place to assist the SAA to deal with some of these things because, as I said earlier, they dent our reputation.

When we discussed these things with the department’s officials the last time, there was an indication that the department intended to bring together specialists, who would generally service and maintain the aircraft. But they also felt that they will have to do some specialised work in that they would specialise in either the aircraft wings or fuselage. This could be used for export and we found that a very brilliant idea. Hon Minister, can you inform us whether this idea is still on the cards? If so, has it actually got off the ground? We feel that it will be useful to know that.

Whereas SAA, the wings of the nation, operates a scheduled air transport network of jet-powered aircraft comprising domestic routes, primarily focusing on the main traffic flows in South Africa and air connections to the key cities within the African region and cities located on the major continents, SA Express Airways, SAX, connects to the secondary airports within the African region. This is in collaboration with other African airlines in the region. It is SAX, of course, not sex, please!

SAX in that context is bringing us closer to the realisation of what the OAU Charter used to refer to as Pafmesca – the Pan-African Freedom Movement for East Central and Southern Africa. The role played by SAX is very strategic in this regard and we would like to see that increasing and not for it to be operating only in Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland, Mozambique, Namibia and even the DRC. We want to see it going a little further so that we can expand it to Eastern, Western, Southern and Central Africa. We even want it to go to North Africa if that is possible, but we are aware that some of these routes might be reserved for SAA.

The building of Eskom infrastructure and expanding substation capacities to accommodate villages that are in need of electricity is a highly welcome development which we hope will not be overshadowed by the pending price hikes by Eskom.

The current load shedding and outages, we feel, need to be managed a little more than is being done. The planning and announcements thereof have gone a long way to alert people and get them prepared for it and its eventualities. Let me take this opportunity to commend both the Department of Minerals Energy, DMG,and the Department of Public Enterprises and Eskom itself - and above all, the ANC - for spearheading the Save Electricity campaign, which has successfully brought about the saving of electricity.

We need to indicate, as the Minister in the DME said, that we need the households and private sector to do a little more so that we can save more electricity. Perhaps before I continue, as I am talking about Eskom, I want to say we all know that the DA has a habit of calling for wholesale privatisation. I want to remind them, if they have forgotten or to inform them if they don’t know: Firstly, the ANC, as the organisation, as the Parliament of our people and as the head of government here in this country, is not in the habit of feeding the fat-bellied swine. Secondly, it is not ready or prepared to line the pockets of those who live on unearned income.

The Constitution of the Republic guarantees our people the right to information. In pursuit of this realisation, Broadband Infraco was established in 2006-07 as an intervention by the government to normalise telecommunications market efficiency, to have infrastructure in the national backbone and to have international connectivity at reduced prices. [Interjections.] I am through, don’t worry. On the basis of the above, the committee supports, unreservedly, Vote No 30 and urges this House to do the same. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you very much, Chairperson. As always in this House, the speakers have done their homework and dealt with many issues. What I would like to do is deal with some of the issues that have been raised because I think they are important and require some detailed answers.

Let me start with the electricity position as it stands today. As you know, the real challenge is to reduce the demand at peak times and this requires the savings programmes that the hon Sibiya and others have spoken about. I would really like to stress how important that is. It is something to which we can all contribute. It is imperative that we do it. We have to bring down those peaks. We also have to reorganise the energy dispersal over the whole period.

I think we have made good progress. We have reduced the number of unplanned outages; we have built up the coal stocks again; and with assistance from a number of countries, we are reconfiguring the maintenance schedules. So I think we have certainly made good progress but we still have a very, very tight period and I want to stress the need once again for demand-side management.

We have also made good progress in calling for cogeneration and for the involvement of the private sector and we will make some announcements on this fairly soon. I am sure it will help us, but it will be interesting to see exactly how much we can get from that quarter. So it is a tight period, but I do believe we can come through this if we can achieve the demand saving.

With regard to the vacancies in the department, there are certain positions that have been vacant for a while. It is just very difficult to get those kinds of specialist skills and attract them out of the private sector. In the sector, and in dealing with aviation or ports, I think the teams we’ve had are very good and we’ve been fortunate in attracting a number of skilled people on a contract basis. The kinds of skills we need in a department like the Department of Public Enterprises are very attractive to the private sector, but I am very, very pleased with the team that we have. I think the amount of work that they have been able to do is really fantastic.

I did not have much time to give you much information on the rail investment programme, but it is not insignificant at all. As you know, we are concentrating on the corridor approach with rail, so there is R2,7 billion invested in the Sishen-Saldanha corridor, R6,5 billion in the Gauteng-Richards Bay corridor, R930 million in the Gauteng-Durban corridor, R860 million in the Gauteng-Coega Corridor and R500 million in the Sishen- Coega corridor. So there are pretty big investments planned over the next five years for upgrading the rail corridors of those key areas.

Probably more impressive is the R10,5 billion on locomotives and R8,9 billion on wagons that will be spent over the next five years. These are very big programmes and here the advantages of the Competitive Supplier Development Programme have started to be felt where there is a very significant difference in the local content of the second order of locomotives compared to the first. So the impact on South Africa’s industry will certainly be significant. Hon Themba, I believe, raised the important point that the state- owned enterprises need to focus on their core business. I think, in the last five years, one of the less-stated achievements is that we actually have disposed of very significant noncore businesses. I think we have virtually completed the noncore disposal programme in all of the major enterprises and this has been very important.

I may as well deal with soya now. [Laughter.] Hon Mchunu, I regret to say so, but I think it is a good thing: We have finally been able to dispose of the soya plant and there is a BEE component to that. I would recommend that they should probably consult you as an expert adviser. [Laughter.] We have disposed of it and at Denel our noncore disposal programme has also been very successful, and we are now much more focused on the core business.

Hon chairperson of the select committee, I think it is very important that we look at what we are trying to achieve with the corporatisation of Denel and these issues. This is not privatisation in its traditional form. Essentially, what we have to balance in an industry like Denel is the strategic requirements of our Defence Force and of the country as a whole. We have to make sure that we can have sustainable businesses and, very importantly, we need access to the most advanced skills and technologies.

What is also very important is that we need access to stable markets because South Africa’s defence industry cannot be based only on supplying our own Defence Force because, as hon Gamede pointed out, we have reduced our expenditure on defence.

So access to the stable, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Nato markets and other large economy markets is a very, very important part of our strategy. It allows us to export sophisticated equipment, to keep our advanced manufacturing capacities and at some, hopefully-never-to-happen, future crisis, if we ever have to build up our Defence Force again, we can do so on the basis of what we have retained in the Denel stable.

I would also like to stress - because it is a very important question you raised, hon Themba - that the proposals we make in the shareholder management model, we would argue, actually increase the powers of Parliament with regard to statements of the strategic intent and oversight functions. This is why we raised it in the National Assembly and I raise it here, that I think it is absolutely crucial that we give very serious thought to how Parliament’s capacities, skills and time can be enhanced to give oversight to these complex organisations.

If you look at something like the Denel situation, where we have brought in equity partners, you will see that those are complicated agreements. There are specific golden share provisions; there are specific legal contracts with regard to intellectual property. So even though we may have a partner from the private sector, there are still very important provisions in the contracts that we have to oversee. So we are very supportive of improving Parliament’s capacity to provide this oversight.

We would very much agree that we need new forms of energy, particularly in the rural areas. The work done on the South African Power Project, hon Mchunu, suggests that South Africa should probably put more effort into researching the equipment and technology for solar power. Wind power, I think, has been very well-developed by Europe and there are many available technologies. Currently it remains a relatively expensive technology for South Africa, but we will have much greater insight into this with the 100 megawatt plant that will be constructed near Vredendal.

The conclusion that we are coming to is that solar energy and equipment is one where South Africa could have a competitive advantage. A lot of energy and effort will go into that.

I am glad that you raised the issue of nuclear waste. This is an important issue. One of the great advantages of the pebble bed nuclear reactor is that the storage of the waste is a lot easier. This is so because the sites are smaller and, because the pebbles are recyclable, the waste problems are more manageable.

The issue of nuclear waste presents an important decision for all of us. We have made a decision in South Africa as to how we will store it in the interim. Essentially, this issue of the final storage of nuclear waste is a global scientific venture in which we are all involved. It is a problem that is 300 years or more away.

If you compare that to global warming, where all the scientific evidence points to serious impacts within 50 years if we don’t adjust the greenhouse gas emissions, then, I think, we can begin to understand why there has been such a renewed interest in nuclear energy. The technology is much safer, and the pebble bed is probably the safest of all nuclear technologies that have been developed.

The waste problem, even though it is a problem that has to be addressed, just as the safety of our people has to be addressed, is a problem which really emerges over a much longer time period than the time period of greenhouse gas emissions. This is why the world, as a whole, is having a much closer look at nuclear energy and it is why, if we don’t commit to our nuclear plant soon, we will fall out of the queue. Nuclear plants are being built all over the world now. There is a massive shortage of equipment for nuclear plants because of the resurgence of interest in nuclear energy.

Very briefly, on the issue of Alexcor, I think a very important settlement has been reached with the Richtersveld community which has been crucial for us, and I think we are making good progress.

With Safcol, the land claims that we have now been able to establish are very large. There is a large number of them. It is complicated and complex. So it is quite clear that, as we perceived last year, we will not be able to proceed precisely with such a transaction. We have to hold fire and engage with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry and the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs to work out how we can deal with this problem. It is a significant problem.

On Richards Bay, you know, hon Gamede, comrade, when you invite me I always come. In terms of our long-term port planning, Richards Bay will become one of South Africa’s premier ports. It gives us a lot of space and there are a lot of plans for the development of the Richards Bay port over time.

On the key issues of SAA and skills with the SOEs, we will give presentations to you, the select committee, and others, on the power project. We have now completed an exceptionally detailed analysis of what skills we need. I am pleased to say that I think we can complete that skill development. I am also pleased to say that we have noticed quite a good ability to attract back skills - not just South Africans – but to attract skills from other countries into South Africa with the prospect of this large energy build coming into play.

On SAA, we are doing our best to deal with those problems. One of our difficulties is that our planes are being used exceptionally heavily at the moment. As you see, passenger numbers are very high and this puts a lot of pressure on the maintenance and the turnaround and that can give us some difficulties. As you can see, our airports are very, very busy. Air traffic in South Africa is growing rapidly.

The new fleet plan will be a long-term plan. We first have to stabilise SAA’s balance sheet which, as I have said, is getting better. We will need more aircraft. If we don’t get more aircraft we are going to have more delays.

We are looking very, very closely at luggage. There are some difficulties in the supply chain and the handling chain of luggage. We would prefer to tighten that up and get far greater control over it as SAA, so that, if we make a mistake, we can be held accountable. At the moment we are being held accountable for mistakes that may have occurred elsewhere. So these are some of the things we are looking at.

We are continuing the process of component aircraft exports. You referred to a specific issue which is one of the key components of the A400M, namely the wheelhouse setting and also the flange on the wings. These have been quite interesting and challenging prospects. On the one component we are well on schedule; on the other we are a little bit behind but that is because of a discussion between the designers and ourselves.

We see this aerospace component industry as being an important industry for South Africa.

Madam Chairperson, I have abused my time now, having saved some earlier. I really apologise. This is due to the inefficiency of the Minister and not of the SOE. [Laughter.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Thank you, Minister. I have allowed you extra time because you saved five minutes previously. Thank you very much for the debate. I also want to thank the officials of the department for attending this session, and our colleagues from the National Assembly as well as the hon members - even if some of them were not very well behaved today. [Laughter.]

I have two announcements to make. One is that I have to remind members that the deadline for the submission of disclosures is Friday 20 June 2008. So, you have one day left. Be sure to submit it.

Lastly, I have been requested by the hon Ministers for Public Service and Administration, Water Affairs and Forestry as well as Public Enterprises, to invite you for a cocktail in the Old Assembly restaurant. I just want to remind you that you must not drink and drive. [Laughter.] You should rather drink and jive and go home later.

The Council adjourned at 17:56. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

(1)    The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following
     Bills as section 75 Bills:

      a) Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 34 – 2008] (National
         Assembly – sec 75).

      b) Intelligence Services Amendment Bill [B 37 – 2008] (National
         Assembly – sec 75).

(2)    The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following
     Bill as a section 76 Bill:

      a) General and Further Education and Training Quality Assurance
         Amendment Bill [B 35 – 2008] (National Assembly – sec 76).

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister of Transport


      a) National Land Transport Bill [B 51 – 2008] (National Assembly
         – proposed sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
         notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
         31060 of 15 May 2008.]


         Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
         Transport of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the
         Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of
         Joint Rule 160.


         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
         of the Bills may be submitted to the JTM within three
         parliamentary working days.


 (2)    The Minister of Minerals and Energy


      a) National Energy Bill [B 52 – 2008] (National Assembly –
         proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice
         of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 31124
         of 3 June 2008.]


         Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
         Minerals and Energy of the National Assembly, as well as
         referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
         classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.


         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
         of the Bills may be submitted to the JTM within three
         parliamentary working days.

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Appropriation Bill [B3 – 2008] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 18 June 2008:

   The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Appropriation Bill [B3 – 2008] (National Assembly – sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.